:00:00. > :00:13.It is time now for Extra Time with Rob Bonnet.
:00:14. > :00:21.Extra Time has come to the sporting convention in Turkey. When the IOC
:00:22. > :00:23.president, Thomas Bach elected last September has been setting out his
:00:24. > :00:31.vision for the future of the Olympic movement. It is a 60 commitment
:00:32. > :00:34.entitled a bigger gender Twenty20. Its wish is to encourage more open
:00:35. > :00:39.debate amongst these, the stakeholders in sport. But, there
:00:40. > :00:44.are are of course some familiar things too. For example, doping in
:00:45. > :00:49.sport. The faltering construction of facilities for the Olympics in Rio
:00:50. > :00:50.in 2016 and also the Winter Olympics in Sochi were a number of political
:00:51. > :01:22.issues presented themselves. President Thomas Bach, welcome to
:01:23. > :01:29.Extra Time. You have a motto. Unity in diversity. What does that mean?
:01:30. > :01:35.It means that for instance, in regard to the candidature and
:01:36. > :01:40.process, we have two encourage more diversity rather than people having
:01:41. > :01:50.just answering questionnaires. The candidature of who? Bidding for the
:01:51. > :01:57.games. That we encourage people to show us what Olympic Games means in
:01:58. > :02:01.their culture and that we are not telling them how we see Olympic
:02:02. > :02:12.Games in their culture. This is just one example. Billy big movement is a
:02:13. > :02:18.worldwide movement so we have a common dominator `` denominator. We
:02:19. > :02:23.consider diversity being an enrichment. It is a worldwide
:02:24. > :02:26.movement which tries to say that you stay separate from politics.
:02:27. > :02:36.Politics and sport is kind of a mantra almost. We are politically
:02:37. > :02:41.neutral but we are not a political. What is the difference? The
:02:42. > :02:46.difference is that we have to realise and we have to consider when
:02:47. > :02:55.we take decisions that they have little applications. Arts, we have
:02:56. > :03:04.to take our decisions based on sports and not based on political
:03:05. > :03:09.arguments. You have to be neutral to put systems all over the world. One
:03:10. > :03:13.at the time to time, the games has been hijacked by political
:03:14. > :03:18.gestures. In 1968 in Mexico, the Black Power salute. And more
:03:19. > :03:24.recently in the Paralympic Games in Sochi, the decision by the Ukrainian
:03:25. > :03:30.athletes to cover their medals when they whine. I understand that is not
:03:31. > :03:36.the Olympics, it is the Paralympics. What is your opinion? My view is
:03:37. > :03:44.that in the Olympic Games, we have to protect the athletes. We have to
:03:45. > :03:50.protect the athletes from being involved in the court disputes of
:03:51. > :03:55.all kinds. But they did that of their own choice. I am not commented
:03:56. > :04:05.on individual cases. The principle is what counts. The athletes have to
:04:06. > :04:12.be protected from being part of a political dispute in the games. If
:04:13. > :04:17.they want to take part in this dispute, then they can speak out in
:04:18. > :04:23.the press conferences. They can speak with their fellow athletes.
:04:24. > :04:28.But not on the rostrum? No. And not on the field. Is that gesture was to
:04:29. > :04:34.be repeated by any athletes, you would disapprove? I will not
:04:35. > :04:40.speculate on this. It does seem now that you would disapprove? this is
:04:41. > :04:44.your interpretation was up I am telling you we will not speculate on
:04:45. > :04:49.individual cases before they have happened. At the moment, we would
:04:50. > :04:53.allow the international sports would become part of the political
:04:54. > :05:04.dispute, it would very soon not have any international sport and in the
:05:05. > :05:11.stop `` any more. It would be a high risk because the meaning of the
:05:12. > :05:16.games is bringing people together. Political disputes, by experience,
:05:17. > :05:19.they do not bring people together. I understand what you say about not
:05:20. > :05:25.circulating. But it might be the getting of the end of the Olympics,
:05:26. > :05:33.is that what you are suggesting? I am trying to interpret what you are
:05:34. > :05:39.saying. If we had the games as a stage for political disputes, this
:05:40. > :05:43.would be against the meaning of the Olympic Games. Did you regard the
:05:44. > :05:47.Sochi Olympics, the Winter Olympics as a stage for the Russian
:05:48. > :05:56.government of President Putin? You could see, in every Olympic Games,
:05:57. > :06:05.the host country, not only the Olympics but the soccer World Cup as
:06:06. > :06:10.well, the host country can show what their culture is. What their
:06:11. > :06:19.perception of sport and the Olympics is. We have very clear rules, for
:06:20. > :06:28.instance, no politician is allowed to make a speech in the opening or
:06:29. > :06:33.Closing Ceremony. You would accept the view, which has been expressed,
:06:34. > :06:41.that Vladimir Putin somehow used the Winter Olympics as a propaganda
:06:42. > :06:50.tool? He was there and I think this is legitimate that the head of state
:06:51. > :06:55.is there. These were games in Russia and there you present the Russian
:06:56. > :07:07.culture. That is what everybody would expect. Therefore, again, the
:07:08. > :07:14.rules of the IOC and the Olympic charter were respected. The Sochi
:07:15. > :07:23.Games cost 55 million dollars. Wrong. What was the figure? The
:07:24. > :07:30.figure is around $2 billion. Around the cost of Vancouver. The other
:07:31. > :07:36.cost are infrastructure costs. You would have to make a difference. You
:07:37. > :07:46.should know from London that the cost of transforming the east end of
:07:47. > :07:51.London into what it is now, a flourishing quarter and Olympic
:07:52. > :07:56.Park. A well appreciated living area. This is not the cost of the
:07:57. > :08:03.games. This was an investment in the future of East London and London.
:08:04. > :08:08.But you would agree that the cost of bidding and mounting Olympic Games
:08:09. > :08:14.has to be reduced? The cost of the bidding should be reduced. This is
:08:15. > :08:23.why the IOC has already a pretty strict rule. But what we see is that
:08:24. > :08:30.many candidates cities use already the candidature for different
:08:31. > :08:38.purposes. They use it at the same time they are advertising for
:08:39. > :08:47.tourism to attract tourists or headquarters of enterprises. We have
:08:48. > :08:55.to have a look into it, we have to make it clearer what the IOC really
:08:56. > :09:03.requests from a Kansas City. What about a spending? If you could
:09:04. > :09:13.control it. You are the President. The IOC has no police force, the
:09:14. > :09:17.authority to really control back. Well that is a feeling, isn't it?
:09:18. > :09:26.Deeney to get a grip on that? We tried to bite `` but, never
:09:27. > :09:33.introduced a rule which you cannot control. This reflects what John
:09:34. > :09:36.Coates proposed. He said the bidding procedure should be more of an
:09:37. > :09:42.invitation rather than a tender for a franchise. Almost a semantic
:09:43. > :09:49.argument. This is a huge difference. What we are doing now is
:09:50. > :09:56.at the beginning of the candidature procedure, we issue this kind of
:09:57. > :10:04.tender. Are you ready to build a stadium with a capacity of 50,000
:10:05. > :10:13.for these sports? Will the seats for the press be the right colour? So
:10:14. > :10:22.very fine detail? We tick the box. But this is like a tender for a
:10:23. > :10:28.franchise. We have to change the mentality we have to ask the
:10:29. > :10:33.potential candidates cities, how do you see Olympic Games fitting best
:10:34. > :10:43.into your long`term development plan? Be it social, infrastructure,
:10:44. > :10:50.environmental. Tell us how the games would fit into your society. And
:10:51. > :10:58.then we can look at it and make a decision. How concerned are you that
:10:59. > :11:06.the Rio games will be ready? There is reason to be concerned. I had a
:11:07. > :11:17.visit in January that in Brazil and I was visiting the President of
:11:18. > :11:25.Brazil. To exchange the opinions and I was happy to learn that they are
:11:26. > :11:37.committed. There is not a single day to lose. That was a view days ago.
:11:38. > :11:39.Have they lost a few days since then press yellow the commission was
:11:40. > :11:49.there, saying there is not one hour to lose. Do you regret the decision
:11:50. > :12:02.to award against Rio? Why not? Because it will be a great Games.
:12:03. > :12:08.The facilities will be incomplete. Let's see. It will be a great party
:12:09. > :12:15.in the end. You say that with a smile on your face. When you speak
:12:16. > :12:21.about a party you have to say that with a smile on your face. They do
:12:22. > :12:26.seem to be concerning. A range of facilities are behind schedule. Golf
:12:27. > :12:34.coming into the Olympics for the first time in 100 years, golf
:12:35. > :12:37.courses are way behind schedule. It is disappointing given how long ago
:12:38. > :12:42.we got amongst this in golfing started. He was putting it forward
:12:43. > :12:52.and now there has been a delay. Again, there are concerns. There is
:12:53. > :13:01.nothing to hide. The good thing about it is that our partners in
:13:02. > :13:08.Brazil know and... Are you being stoned? Are you giving them the
:13:09. > :13:11.hurry up? We will have very open discussions with them. Using
:13:12. > :13:21.diplomatic language, of course. I can imagine there are being `` there
:13:22. > :13:24.are tables being thumped. What about the composition of the Olympic
:13:25. > :13:29.Games? Have you got the balance right in terms of the programme of
:13:30. > :13:33.sport, between the traditional sports and the new sports, which are
:13:34. > :13:39.clamouring at the door to get in. In the summer games we should make an
:13:40. > :13:46.effort to get some new blood into the system. What we have done with
:13:47. > :13:53.the Winter Games, what worked very well, we have not done yet in the
:13:54. > :14:00.Summer Games. Can you give me some examples? If I give you an example,
:14:01. > :14:04.then for this sport it would mean the end of all its ambitions. What
:14:05. > :14:17.we have to do and what we are discussing a bout now is how we can
:14:18. > :14:21.make out procedure more flexible. We can welcome new sports or
:14:22. > :14:26.disciplines easier than the present procedure allows. Once we have
:14:27. > :14:33.established a new procedure, I will be ready to speak about the sports.
:14:34. > :14:37.Is the 2016 schedule set in stone smack there is disappointment
:14:38. > :14:46.amongst different sports, particularly sport, squash ``
:14:47. > :14:55.particular squash. I think we have just discussed the concerns that we
:14:56. > :15:00.have with Rio. You can't give me a straight answer. I don't think this
:15:01. > :15:07.would be the right moment to put a greater burden on the organising
:15:08. > :15:17.committee in Rio. You are not saying that squash is out of the games, are
:15:18. > :15:25.you? You are getting philosophical. The timelines are over. To 2020
:15:26. > :15:36.maybe, that is another argument to have. To 2020, we would hopefully
:15:37. > :15:45.have other procedures. For Rio 2016, the timelines are being over for a
:15:46. > :15:52.long time and on the other hand we have to make sure that within the
:15:53. > :15:58.existing programme we will all see the great party we want to see in
:15:59. > :16:01.Rio. What about the proposal from the president of the International
:16:02. > :16:08.cycling union, you are aware he proposed that not only cycling
:16:09. > :16:14.events, but he takes it upon himself to take it upon other sports,
:16:15. > :16:22.badminton and so on, that they should be switched from the Summer
:16:23. > :16:26.Games to the Winter Games. The Winter Games are games on ice and
:16:27. > :16:32.snow and they should remain so. Indefinitely? First of all, they
:16:33. > :16:39.have to keep their identity. If you add other sports, this would not be
:16:40. > :16:45.authentic Summer Games to any more. You are ruling it out, aren't you?
:16:46. > :16:51.That's one reason. The second reason, already now, it is difficult
:16:52. > :16:58.in the mountain regions to have all the installations you need for the
:16:59. > :17:02.Winter Games. You're not saying cycle Cross could not take place in
:17:03. > :17:09.winter? But then you would need the velodrome on top. You would have
:17:10. > :17:13.hundreds more athletes, hundreds more (CROSSTALK) if you can create
:17:14. > :17:19.an ice rink in Sochi, you can create a velodrome. And ice rink is for the
:17:20. > :17:24.Winter Games, if you had a velodrome it would be on top. You are ruling
:17:25. > :17:31.that out, are you? The winter grains will remain snow and ice bound.
:17:32. > :17:33.Yes. That is despite the flexibility you spoke about in terms of
:17:34. > :17:41.accepting ideas in the Olympic movement. Yes, but I am not talking
:17:42. > :17:44.about flexibility for the sake of flexibility. It would be the
:17:45. > :17:48.elephant in the room if we did not speak of doping. Athletes at home
:17:49. > :17:52.from Sochi. What does this tell us, if anything, about the failures or
:17:53. > :17:58.successes of anti` doping regulations. It shows that the
:17:59. > :18:03.anti`dumping system works and that we are getting that cheats. Looking
:18:04. > :18:12.at substances for which they were caught, it also tells us that the
:18:13. > :18:18.deterrent factor has been growing and that we have made progress in
:18:19. > :18:29.this respect. There is more to do. The former president of WADA has
:18:30. > :18:32.been critical. In a report he describes drug testing programmes as
:18:33. > :18:40.generally unsuccessful and says that sport bodies, including the RUC
:18:41. > :18:44.should take. But from the quantity of tests rather than the quality of
:18:45. > :18:48.testing. This report is two years old. It is no longer valid? Let me
:18:49. > :18:55.explain. In the meantime, we have seen the most apprehensive
:18:56. > :19:00.anti`dumping test programme in the Sochi games, not only with regard to
:19:01. > :19:10.quantity, but also with regard to quality. What he is clear about is
:19:11. > :19:13.that sports, or indeed associations, which are not compliant with the
:19:14. > :19:24.code should be kicked out. Are you comfortable with that? It is WADA
:19:25. > :19:28.who have to declare them non`compliant and so far they have
:19:29. > :19:36.all been declared compliant. In Jamaica you will remember
:19:37. > :19:44.(CROSSTALK) this is WADA and all have been declared compliant. As
:19:45. > :19:48.long as they say so you are happy? They are the competent authority
:19:49. > :19:56.which was founded and together with the government. They are responsible
:19:57. > :20:04.for making the necessary enquiries and then declaring the National
:20:05. > :20:07.Olympic Committee or of the International Federation compliant
:20:08. > :20:12.or non`compliant. In your personal view, is a four`year ban for doping
:20:13. > :20:18.offences sufficient? I am coming in my time as an athlete speaker from
:20:19. > :20:24.the clear request for a lifelong ban. We said at the time together
:20:25. > :20:34.with Sebastian Cole that we don't want to see that cheats any more on
:20:35. > :20:49.the field. I had to learn the lesson from lawyers that everybody has
:20:50. > :20:54.deserved a second chance. With this for `` four years, there is a
:20:55. > :20:58.balance, because it is a high deterrent factor. With the second
:20:59. > :21:05.infringement, you can have a life ban. You set aside $10 million,
:21:06. > :21:08.beside the 10 million for antidote in, to fight manipulation and
:21:09. > :21:14.related corruption. What does that mean? `` anti` doping. This is
:21:15. > :21:18.mainly illegal betting and manipulation of sports. Have Olympic
:21:19. > :21:27.Games or spores being manipulated in the past? Not as far as you know? We
:21:28. > :21:33.have had a monitoring system for the games where all bets placed on the
:21:34. > :21:41.games are monitored. We have taken certain precautions. Participants in
:21:42. > :21:46.the games are not allowed to bet on Olympic events and so on. We have to
:21:47. > :21:52.face the reality. What hasn't happened so far, should happen
:21:53. > :22:05.tomorrow and is already happening in different. This is the reason why
:22:06. > :22:07.before the Sochi games we assigned a memorandum of understanding with
:22:08. > :22:12.Interpol to strengthen this fight. And she very much indeed. `` thank
:22:13. > :22:39.you very much indeed. It is proving to be a mixed Easter
:22:40. > :22:44.weekend at the scene continues into Easter Monday. Many of us will have
:22:45. > :22:52.a reasonable day with sunshine to look forward to. There will be a few
:22:53. > :22:53.showers scattered around. Some of us will get wet. Most of