0:00:01 > 0:00:06Now on BBC News, Extra Time.
0:00:13 > 0:00:16Welcome to Extra Time.
0:00:16 > 0:00:19In April 2017, heavyweight boxing regained much of its credibility
0:00:19 > 0:00:21with a pulsating fight between Britain's Anthony Joshua
0:00:21 > 0:00:23and Ukraine's Wladimir Klitschko in London.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26Both men were knocked down as the fight went first one way,
0:00:26 > 0:00:29and then the other, before a decisive 11th round ended
0:00:29 > 0:00:31in Joshua's victory. A rematch would have
0:00:31 > 0:00:34surely grossed as much - if not more - than the first fight's
0:00:34 > 0:00:36$30 million purse, but more recently the defeated
0:00:36 > 0:00:39Klitschko has announced his retirement.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42But comebacks often prove irresistible in boxing.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46So is Klitschko really finished in the ring
0:00:46 > 0:00:52and if so, what's next?
0:01:09 > 0:01:22Wladimir Klitschko welcome to Extra Time. Wembley stadium, the opponent
0:01:22 > 0:01:28British Anthony Joshua the heavyweight title on the line. Can
0:01:28 > 0:01:33you recapture now the kind of atmosphere that prevailed in the
0:01:33 > 0:01:40stadium?It was my first time being back in London after the fight. --
0:01:40 > 0:01:49this is. The first thing that probably was kind of impressive to
0:01:49 > 0:01:59me, my passport at Customs and I was asked, well, we don't really need to
0:01:59 > 0:02:06look at your passport, can we shake your hand? A lot of people watched
0:02:06 > 0:02:15it. Millions around the world. It was a very important night in the
0:02:15 > 0:02:23life of AJ and myself. We were dedicated to the sport and our
0:02:23 > 0:02:28performance. I was absolutely obsessed to become third time world
0:02:28 > 0:02:35champion and I did everything to make that happen. I really had a
0:02:35 > 0:02:42good position.He did have an opportunity, specifically toward the
0:02:42 > 0:02:47end of the fifth, you had him on the floor after years of being flawed.
0:02:47 > 0:02:55You must have thought victory was in reach. He said afterwards that you
0:02:55 > 0:02:58rose to your feet after being knocked down like The Terminator. He
0:02:58 > 0:03:05saw in you still the ambition, the determination.On both sides. He
0:03:05 > 0:03:13probably didn't think I would get up and I didn't think he was going to
0:03:13 > 0:03:20get up but, certainly, Joshua was born as a champion that night, even
0:03:20 > 0:03:26if the result was not what I was expecting and I would have ended it
0:03:26 > 0:03:32in a different way, I mean, I could change the end result now, I
0:03:32 > 0:03:37wouldn't because even if I lost, I wanted so much.That is an
0:03:37 > 0:03:42extraordinary thing to say. Why do you say such a thing? I understand
0:03:42 > 0:03:47the mutual respect but still to say that it was better that you lost
0:03:47 > 0:03:54that one is an amazing thing.It would have been great for my ego to
0:03:54 > 0:03:57wind but another side is being involved in championship fights and
0:03:57 > 0:04:03winning a lot but to experience - which I did not really understand
0:04:03 > 0:04:07that night directly - but to experience winning so much by
0:04:07 > 0:04:15losing, even I feel...The crowd at Wembley did appreciate you. You were
0:04:15 > 0:04:21applauded. You are held in great affection in Britain and are suppose
0:04:21 > 0:04:26part of that is the fact that that particular fight did ring a kind of
0:04:26 > 0:04:31respectability back to the heavyweight division, the absence of
0:04:31 > 0:04:38trash talking, the mutual respect, and the fact that it was the most
0:04:38 > 0:04:46extraordinarily competitive fight.I will turn around and ask you, what
0:04:46 > 0:04:52did you think I did for the heavyweight division?You provided
0:04:52 > 0:05:00drama, comeback.It is hard to judge myself. It can do much better. You
0:05:00 > 0:05:05as a journalist or they as fans probably can describe it better.
0:05:05 > 0:05:09What some people like about it was that it was a complete departure
0:05:09 > 0:05:16from what you had previously been criticised for, jab and grab Dick in
0:05:16 > 0:05:22boxing and this suddenly was a really open fight in which, frankly,
0:05:22 > 0:05:29either side could have won.It is going to be... It does not matter
0:05:29 > 0:05:33what you do you are going to get criticised.Yes, did that criticism
0:05:33 > 0:05:43hurt you?It helped me, it pieced me off. Each time that make because it
0:05:43 > 0:05:51was unfair? Before that, it 11- 12 years ago, when I lost almost two
0:05:51 > 0:05:58fights in a row against Brewster and Anderson, I was written off, I was
0:05:58 > 0:06:07the one that was a loser from both. Even if I was OK before, suddenly I
0:06:07 > 0:06:14was not OK any more and I was tremendously criticised, terribly
0:06:14 > 0:06:19criticised, I'm sorry. It was giving me a lot of wind in the sales and I
0:06:19 > 0:06:25was so pumped up because I was not belonging where I was and so I
0:06:25 > 0:06:31changed everything, I team, my schedule, my attitude to work out,
0:06:31 > 0:06:37are just dedicated my sport...It was a kind of motivation?And taking
0:06:37 > 0:06:43it as a compliment. Criticism gives me energy. Something that I want to
0:06:43 > 0:06:50prove is different.Do not want to take you back to a necessarily
0:06:50 > 0:06:54totally dark place but the 11th round when you were on the canvas
0:06:54 > 0:07:00three times, what is it like then from a physical and mental level to
0:07:00 > 0:07:06be on the end of such a ferocious onslaught? Few viewers to this
0:07:06 > 0:07:13programme would have experienced that.Well, I do not want to discuss
0:07:13 > 0:07:28about how I felt because, when you our dedicated to the cause and you
0:07:28 > 0:07:32are not getting that, are you happy about it? No, you are not. You just
0:07:32 > 0:07:37observe that an you are taking it as it is and I have learnt in the
0:07:37 > 0:07:42past...How'd you take the physical pain?There is no physical pain to
0:07:42 > 0:07:50the fight. Even if you feel physical pain, that's the fear leaving your
0:07:50 > 0:07:57body.That is how you deal with it effectively?Yes it is the fear
0:07:57 > 0:08:02leaving my body. It takes a lot of different experiences that I have
0:08:02 > 0:08:09collected... Anyway, the 11th round, and get a comeback to what I was
0:08:09 > 0:08:14telling you, as a fighter, you are so emotionally attached to the goal
0:08:14 > 0:08:22of winning the fight and if it is not happening, it was insane. Of
0:08:22 > 0:08:29course, I was emotionally upset but then, suddenly, things turned around
0:08:29 > 0:08:42and... ISIL a lot of my good points because it now I was on the other
0:08:42 > 0:08:50side. Suddenly I understood the circle of life. --I saw. I have seen
0:08:50 > 0:08:57my family members passing away, my family members being born, it is the
0:08:57 > 0:09:01circle of light and at some point, even if you are experienced and you
0:09:01 > 0:09:07know you can handle it, you can do it, you are experienced, it tells
0:09:07 > 0:09:11you you have everything under control and then you understand, it
0:09:11 > 0:09:16is probably the time you have to pass the torch and I was so
0:09:16 > 0:09:24fortunate that I passed the torch to Anthony Joshua.The circle of life,
0:09:24 > 0:09:30this is deeply philosophical was make it is deeply realistic and the
0:09:30 > 0:09:39truth.It is what it is. I do not complain about it. Of course, my ego
0:09:39 > 0:09:43is like wrinkled because they did not achieve what I wanted but I have
0:09:43 > 0:09:53achieved so much by losing.Let's talk about your retirement.
0:09:53 > 0:09:58Why, why did you decide to retire? Because it was under my terms.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01It was perfect timing and you only can and could understand it only
0:10:01 > 0:10:06when the time is going to pass. Right at the moment,
0:10:06 > 0:10:09when I was making these decisions, it was the most difficult decision
0:10:09 > 0:10:15in my life, I didn't know what kind of impact it is going to have
0:10:15 > 0:10:19on my life, on myself, on my ego and everything else,
0:10:19 > 0:10:22but today, after a couple more months passed, I would say
0:10:22 > 0:10:24that it was the right decision. Are you absolutely
0:10:24 > 0:10:27ruling out a comeback? Absolutely no chance of coming back?
0:10:27 > 0:10:29Listen... Because boxing is full
0:10:29 > 0:10:32of people that have said... Never say never, right?
0:10:32 > 0:10:35Never say never. And... (CROSSTALK).
0:10:35 > 0:10:38So there's some doubt in your mind? No, no.
0:10:38 > 0:10:44Like, right now, I'm speaking of right now,
0:10:44 > 0:10:47I'm totally happy where I am and what I am.
0:10:47 > 0:10:49But right now it's November 2017, and in January,
0:10:49 > 0:10:51February, 2018, you could change your mind.
0:10:51 > 0:10:55That's right and I am 41 and maybe, George Foreman made and he was
0:10:55 > 0:10:5845, maybe I'll wake up in a few years and say,
0:10:58 > 0:11:01I've still got it and I feel like coming back.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03But, honestly speaking, I wish to myself that
0:11:03 > 0:11:11I will never come back. I wish.
0:11:11 > 0:11:23So I don't know... I don't know what should happen
0:11:23 > 0:11:28that I come back but I don't know.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31I have been there, I've done that, I have seen it.
0:11:31 > 0:11:34Have you given all that you have to give to boxing?
0:11:34 > 0:11:38As a fighter, the answer is positive, yes, I gave it all.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41It is not just the money is that brings boxes back, not having a
0:11:41 > 0:11:48purpose to their daily routine. Have you done that?I have tremendous
0:11:48 > 0:11:56replacement. I am very happy. Just ten days, I believe, after Wembley,
0:11:56 > 0:12:07I was standing at an event, S 80 event, an annual convention. And
0:12:07 > 0:12:17there were 20,000 people and are represented together with one of
0:12:17 > 0:12:23those CEO is for innovation and we were talking about synergy and
0:12:23 > 0:12:28challenge management. Challenge management is something that I have
0:12:28 > 0:12:33created as a method. It is intellectual property in this case
0:12:33 > 0:12:42and I am having it together as a study course, a certified study
0:12:42 > 0:12:51course. Self-management et cetera. We are going third year and we have
0:12:51 > 0:12:55built the centre of confidence and I was standing there and performing
0:12:55 > 0:13:00something that I was talking about it and performing not with my fists.
0:13:00 > 0:13:08It was awesome. I was just thinking, well, I am actually having my arena
0:13:08 > 0:13:17and my fight to announce these and it was exciting. I had a general and
0:13:17 > 0:13:24in my blood but I did not wear gloves.So this is replacing boxing
0:13:24 > 0:13:30but I wanted to talk to about challenge management. It is set in a
0:13:30 > 0:13:34rather elevated language, it deals with dealing with challenges in
0:13:34 > 0:13:43corporate or personal arena challenge changes...It is not
0:13:43 > 0:13:49rocket science. The world is changing. If you just think about
0:13:49 > 0:13:56ten years ago, you took a list of the top ten best performer companies
0:13:56 > 0:14:01and capitalisation of those companies that oil, gas, steel, coal
0:14:01 > 0:14:08companies. Any trading company but now that you have IT companies. A
0:14:08 > 0:14:17trillion for Apple, you have Microsoft...
0:14:17 > 0:14:24Klitschko
0:14:24 > 0:14:27boxer bring to business?Is this is everything. Your job is a business
0:14:27 > 0:14:35as well. We are getting paid for it. We are enjoying it, what you want to
0:14:35 > 0:14:39do out of your life and that is the main goal. Everything else is a
0:14:39 > 0:14:42production of your activity, financial production, finances this
0:14:42 > 0:14:51case. So I'm very curious man. I have always been and I'm enjoying
0:14:51 > 0:14:58myself to get into the fields which are unknown and people, we are in
0:14:58 > 0:15:04the society thinking with stereotypes. If you an actor, you
0:15:04 > 0:15:10must be dumb. If you're a journalist, you must be a liar. A
0:15:10 > 0:15:12politician can be bought. Stereotypes, that is what this
0:15:12 > 0:15:17society thinks. And that I think about my brother, speaking of him,
0:15:17 > 0:15:24who would have thought that he would become a politician and now the Mera
0:15:24 > 0:15:29of the city of Kiev, the capital city of the U -- of Ukraine.It is
0:15:29 > 0:15:34pretty amazing. If he could summarise the goal, the aim of
0:15:34 > 0:15:37challenge management in one sentence, how would you do that?
0:15:37 > 0:15:43Well, in one sentence, it is a study over six months, actually, but to
0:15:43 > 0:15:49make it short, it's not about challenges... Sorry, not about
0:15:49 > 0:15:56problems in life, it is challenges. Attitudes you have as a human.
0:15:56 > 0:16:00Digitalisation was created by human for human to solve certain issues.
0:16:00 > 0:16:05The most challenging thing in our life, also in our interview, we are
0:16:05 > 0:16:10under temperature, so the more information we get, the more we
0:16:10 > 0:16:15spread out and get it over to the viewers, the better it is.Let me
0:16:15 > 0:16:20take you back to your operations as a promoter and in marketing and that
0:16:20 > 0:16:28is part of your world at the moment. Are you interested for example in
0:16:28 > 0:16:34promoting UFC, mixed martial arts boxing? Would you be interested in
0:16:34 > 0:16:37promoting another McGregor- Mayweather style fight.Would that
0:16:37 > 0:16:42be your thing? I think about the fight, it was great. Nobody thought
0:16:42 > 0:16:47it was going to work but it did work. It was also criticised. Of
0:16:47 > 0:16:53course, it was. You get criticised as soon as you move on but I think
0:16:53 > 0:17:01it was OK. Listen, it was not like a boxing match. Not the high level.
0:17:01 > 0:17:07Just maybe a little idea of how to handle your hands and be in the
0:17:07 > 0:17:13ring. McGregor was super disciplined in this fight and Mayweather did his
0:17:13 > 0:17:18thing. I think it was exciting. People have satisfaction, they paid
0:17:18 > 0:17:23a lot of money to watch it on pay-per-view. Eventually, these
0:17:23 > 0:17:29events made a tremendous amount of money. It was good. Genuinely for
0:17:29 > 0:17:34the sport, it was good. It shows that are UFC fighter can be
0:17:34 > 0:17:38disciplined.I was really impressed with it. Would you be happy to
0:17:38 > 0:17:45promote an event like that?I would not excluded. As I said, the world
0:17:45 > 0:17:54is very fast. Innovations, even this hybrid between MMA and boxing.I am
0:17:54 > 0:18:01wondering whether a contest like that, with an MMA fighter...Am I
0:18:01 > 0:18:05going to involve myself?Would you get back into the ring?My ambitions
0:18:05 > 0:18:20are satisfied. When two men fight, a third wins. It you know, I just, I
0:18:20 > 0:18:25am just going to enjoy myself, continue to enjoy myself as someone
0:18:25 > 0:18:31that is more in the background than the foreground. And you probably
0:18:31 > 0:18:37want to get a direct answer, yes or no. I do not see myself in the ring
0:18:37 > 0:18:42as a fighter. If that is going to change, listen, maybe in five years
0:18:42 > 0:18:46I'm going to change my mind and break a performance record. I don't
0:18:46 > 0:18:54know, is going to be in five years. Never say never. But also this
0:18:54 > 0:19:00saying, if you are 50, if you think you are 20, you have lost 30 years
0:19:00 > 0:19:04of real life. As the now, I am totally at peace with my decision
0:19:04 > 0:19:11and being not involved directly as an athlete in the ring.When we met
0:19:11 > 0:19:16before, we talked a little bit about the alphabet soup of the various
0:19:16 > 0:19:19world boxing organisations. That would be something that you could
0:19:19 > 0:19:22attach yourself to, the campaign to get a unified world boxing
0:19:22 > 0:19:32authority. Frankly, it's been in a mess for decades.I wish and have a
0:19:32 > 0:19:38dream that boxing is going to get more transparent, more open. There
0:19:38 > 0:19:44is one important thing I want to mention. Only one thing counts in
0:19:44 > 0:19:52boxing. Fans and athletes. Promoters, managers, broadcasters --
0:19:52 > 0:19:56broadcasters, sanctioning bodies, everyone has its own interest but
0:19:56 > 0:20:01what are the interests of bands and athletes? It is the court. Without
0:20:01 > 0:20:07them, the sport cannot exist. I think when everyone thinks about
0:20:07 > 0:20:12themselves and they are tearing the sport apart, what do the fans think
0:20:12 > 0:20:18about it? Getting myself to the sport and trying to achieve goals, I
0:20:18 > 0:20:25did achieve something but I don't have the security. My health
0:20:25 > 0:20:29insurance or life insurance or the chance to get any education. It's
0:20:29 > 0:20:35not fair. The pension, it is not there. Look at the National Football
0:20:35 > 0:20:41League in the US. If you perform well, you get the pension. As an
0:20:41 > 0:20:45actor, you have actors green guilt. It's a union that gives you certain
0:20:45 > 0:20:50protection for the time when you're not going to do well but he did
0:20:50 > 0:20:54perform before. You dedicated yourself to the industry. It's
0:20:54 > 0:21:00something that boxing is missing. It not fair. I think it's very
0:21:00 > 0:21:05important to change it. I'd think there is only one way to do it,
0:21:05 > 0:21:10digitalisation. You had to digitalise the sport. What does that
0:21:10 > 0:21:14mean? Digitalisation helps to prevent diseases, prevent
0:21:14 > 0:21:18corruption, prevent bureaucracy, make it more transparent. Give
0:21:18 > 0:21:23security because at the end of the day, speaking about finances, boxing
0:21:23 > 0:21:32is the most financially lucrative sport in world, period. And just to
0:21:32 > 0:21:36have athletes struggling when they dedicate their life and being thrown
0:21:36 > 0:21:42literally on the street because they started 14 as I did and they retire
0:21:42 > 0:21:49at 30, or 41 like myself. It was very important to think about it and
0:21:49 > 0:21:55that's what I want to talk about in my study course. Today, we box.
0:21:55 > 0:22:03Tomorrow we do maybe, I don't know, we're politicians. Tomorrow, we
0:22:03 > 0:22:08become lawyers or entrepreneurs, you name it.Let me just conclude by
0:22:08 > 0:22:15asking you a little bit about your home country, Ukraine. You've
0:22:15 > 0:22:20mentioned that Vitaly is the mayor of here, he is a full-time
0:22:20 > 0:22:24politician. Is anything you could do, is there any role that you could
0:22:24 > 0:22:27play as the spokesman of your country in calming the political
0:22:27 > 0:22:34scene there? How do you feel about the current situation in Ukraine?
0:22:34 > 0:22:41Constitutionally, Ukraine remains difficult, because we have a
0:22:41 > 0:22:46geopolitical and economic crisis. Even though we handle it, we are
0:22:46 > 0:22:49optimists. I am sure that eventually, peace will come to the
0:22:49 > 0:22:56country. The question is, when is it going to happen? Every day, there
0:22:56 > 0:23:03are people getting killed.In the east of the country.So why are
0:23:03 > 0:23:08you...? Because it's a circle of light. We were talking about it in
0:23:08 > 0:23:12the century before, Circle of life. If we look in history, it's always
0:23:12 > 0:23:17been like that and there will be times for war and times for peace
0:23:17 > 0:23:24and as soon as the weapons and the ceasefire really will procure, the
0:23:24 > 0:23:28economy will shoot like a rocket in the sky. It's very sad to observe
0:23:28 > 0:23:35and see that we have something because Ukraine geopolitically and
0:23:35 > 0:23:40geographically is in Europe, we have a lot of challenges, we are young.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43We have sort of democracy which needs to be developed and done
0:23:43 > 0:23:51better. We still had to fight corruption. It is one of the
0:23:51 > 0:23:58diseases, like cancer in the body, it needs to be taken out. And you
0:23:58 > 0:24:02know, one of the ways, digitalisation, you can laugh about
0:24:02 > 0:24:07it but look at this, Paradise papers. Boom, some of your
0:24:07 > 0:24:16countrymen are involved. That showed up. Thanks to digitalisation. Things
0:24:16 > 0:24:20are difficult. It's obvious, it's more transparent and I think it's
0:24:20 > 0:24:26one of the ways and I want to put an accent on it one more time.Wladimir
0:24:26 > 0:24:35Klitschko, thank you so much for joining us on Extra Time.Thank you.