:00:00. > :00:00.appointment. He says he is trying to hang on to
:00:00. > :00:13.his job. Now, it is time for extratime.
:00:14. > :00:16.Today, extratime has come to the north of England to meet Emma
:00:17. > :00:20.O'Reilly whose role was pivotal in bringing down the seven time Tour de
:00:21. > :00:26.France winner Lance Armstrong. She was in Lance Armstrong's Postal
:00:27. > :00:31.team, taking care of his hotel rooms, massages, his meals and other
:00:32. > :00:37.tasks which eventually led her to understand the full extent of his
:00:38. > :00:40.use of performance enhancing drugs. She observed the team's code of
:00:41. > :00:45.silence on this until asked by a journalist to blow the whistle which
:00:46. > :00:50.she did. What followed were years of personal torment. She was verbally
:00:51. > :00:54.attacked by Armstrong and said she felt abandoned by those who used to
:00:55. > :00:59.implement knowledge of US Postal for their own agenda. Recently, she met
:01:00. > :01:04.Armstrong and said that Schieffer gave him. Does he deserve her
:01:05. > :01:29.forgiveness? `` said that she forgave him.
:01:30. > :01:34.Emma O'Reilly, welcome to this edition of extratime. You have just
:01:35. > :01:42.heard me say in the introduction that you have forgiven Lance
:01:43. > :01:46.Armstrong. Why? I guess because... Do you know what, no one has asked
:01:47. > :01:53.me that before. I don't know why. It took me a while. I think because he
:01:54. > :02:01.is genuine. Genuine white? Genuinely sorry for what he has done. It took
:02:02. > :02:04.me a long time to recognise that. `` genuine what. He said you were an
:02:05. > :02:17.alcoholic and a hall. Is that the giver will? `` hore. `` forgiveable.
:02:18. > :02:21.Given what I had done to him, it makes it understandable, though
:02:22. > :02:28.inexcusable. What you have done to him? By talking about against the
:02:29. > :02:33.drugs in sport... You were telling the truth. From what cycling has
:02:34. > :02:39.been, telling the truth is the biggest crime. It was bigger than
:02:40. > :02:47.taking performance enhancing drugs. Telling the truth is a crime? That
:02:48. > :02:53.is what cycling used to be. This is moral relativity in the extreme. I
:02:54. > :02:58.guess, yes. What we will go back to those days. I want to take it back
:02:59. > :03:02.now to last November in Florida when, finally, you and Lance
:03:03. > :03:09.Armstrong came together in a meeting. Just the two of you. What
:03:10. > :03:15.was it like? It was weird. When we left the hotel together I thought it
:03:16. > :03:20.would be awkward. The walk was one minute to the restaurant. Over time
:03:21. > :03:27.we got there, it was back comfortable again. We used to get on
:03:28. > :03:34.well. That was weird in itself. It is still weird how we clicked back
:03:35. > :03:39.into an easy relationship. It took us 10` 11 months. He got in touch in
:03:40. > :03:43.January before the Oprah show and at the time I was still angry. This was
:03:44. > :03:48.the full confessional with Oprah Winfrey. Yes. He called me and left
:03:49. > :03:54.me a text message. I thought, the nerve of this toerag, this piece of
:03:55. > :03:59.dirt, to think that he can call me and leave me a text and I will
:04:00. > :04:04.answer before he goes on Oprah. Over my dead body will I be a soundbite
:04:05. > :04:08.for him. That was my attitude. It wasn't until March when I got back
:04:09. > :04:13.in touch with him and said, if you are genuine, let's try do something.
:04:14. > :04:18.If you are genuine about apologising. Let's be clear, you
:04:19. > :04:26.haven't seen him for how long? 13`14 years. It must have been about that,
:04:27. > :04:33.yes. There was a lot of water under the bridge since then. At what point
:04:34. > :04:37.you ever feel during that meeting that he was fully contrite? That he
:04:38. > :04:44.offered you a full, unreserved apology. For what he said. Let's
:04:45. > :04:51.refer to these words, alcoholic hore. That is serious stuff. It is
:04:52. > :04:59.terrible, sexist, crude, unsophisticated terms to use it
:05:00. > :05:07.against a woman. He is a large's lad. He never treated me in a sexist
:05:08. > :05:12.manner `` lad's lad. On a working level, there was never any sexism.
:05:13. > :05:18.To come out with crude and childish lies. He had apologised several
:05:19. > :05:21.times. I wouldn't have gone to Florida if I thought he wasn't
:05:22. > :05:29.sincere but I still didn't trust him. Let's go back to 1994. By then,
:05:30. > :05:36.you were born into a cycling family and it was part of your life. You
:05:37. > :05:40.end up with the Montgomery professional cycling team, which
:05:41. > :05:46.became US Postal and you write that your job was 24/7. You referred to
:05:47. > :05:53.it as a match of the world. How were you treating. `` treated? I thought
:05:54. > :06:00.I was treated quite well. I never tried to be too much one of the
:06:01. > :06:06.lads. I felt I was treated fairly. If I felt I wasn't, I would say to
:06:07. > :06:11.them. Before that I was an electricity and a donor if it is
:06:12. > :06:13.true but I was told I was the first female electrician in Ireland so
:06:14. > :06:19.came from an environment where there were 50 lads and then may. You could
:06:20. > :06:26.look after yourself. If you are fair with the lads, they will look after
:06:27. > :06:32.you. One of my things was, don't curse and tell dirty jokes because
:06:33. > :06:39.if I don't do that, they can't do the same. Armstrong joins the team
:06:40. > :06:46.in 1998. You immediately form a bond, a friendship. How deep was
:06:47. > :06:50.that friendship? You can't form a deep friendship with some of these
:06:51. > :06:55.writers `` you can. You are sending up to 18 hours with them. You see
:06:56. > :06:59.them in their highs and lows. `` spending. You see the sacrifices
:07:00. > :07:06.that they make. They also see you through your highs and lows so it
:07:07. > :07:10.creates a lifelong bond. You have enormous respect for them. Complete
:07:11. > :07:16.and utter respect for their dedication and hard work. They have
:07:17. > :07:21.to go out when it is knowing, during hailstorms, they are freezing. There
:07:22. > :07:30.was a special relationship with him. We clicked early on. We don't
:07:31. > :07:33.skirt around things. Something I liked was that if he asked for
:07:34. > :07:36.something and you can't do it, you have to eyeball him and tell him
:07:37. > :07:41.that you can't do it and why it isn't happening and he could always
:07:42. > :07:46.take that on`board. He was an easy person to look after. It was like a
:07:47. > :07:55.brother`sister relationship. Definitely. Out of that comes
:07:56. > :07:59.loyalty. Yes. He was good to me when I had a hard time on the road and
:08:00. > :08:04.that creates a lot of loyalty. You always remember when people are good
:08:05. > :08:09.to you when you are down. You have described the business of when you
:08:10. > :08:12.have to say no to him. When he asks you to perform tasks that began to
:08:13. > :08:19.indicate he was using performance enhancing drugs, you didn't say no.
:08:20. > :08:23.Why not? No. At the time, the drugs were so entrenched in cycling and I
:08:24. > :08:27.had gotten away with being headed soigneur at US Postal and never
:08:28. > :08:33.administered anything, never actively part of it. When land is
:08:34. > :08:43.asked something of me, I knew he would be desperate. I was the last
:08:44. > :08:47.resort `` Lance. What I was doing was so minute in comparison to what
:08:48. > :08:52.was going on that I was treated very well by the team, either writers.
:08:53. > :09:02.They left me out of it. That make by the riders. `` by the riders. I was
:09:03. > :09:09.out of the sport 3`4 years. It took me that long to realise that I was
:09:10. > :09:15.part of it, but I was a facilitator. Just because I turned a blind eye,
:09:16. > :09:18.didn't mean I was clean. I wasn't. It was such a flawed
:09:19. > :09:26.infrastructure. The system was so messed up. By me not administering
:09:27. > :09:35.and turning a blind eye, I was a there were `` I was a clean
:09:36. > :09:43.soigneur. There were three incidents. One was that Schiphol
:09:44. > :09:47.Airport. As I was taking Lance's suitcase out of the car, he opens it
:09:48. > :09:54.up and said, I didn't get rid of these, can you? I can't fly with
:09:55. > :10:02.them. What were they? A bad with syringes in them. I said, yet, OK,
:10:03. > :10:07.of course you can't. `` yes. I was being practical. Of course you can't
:10:08. > :10:12.fly with them. It wasn't that I was thinking morally, I was thinking
:10:13. > :10:18.that if he flew with them he couldn't. Did you see it as
:10:19. > :10:23.cheating? I always saw it as cheating. Everyone was Keating. It
:10:24. > :10:36.was destroying their lives. `` cheating. People were dying. You
:10:37. > :10:39.were a courier. Yes. It was a time when Lance needed something after a
:10:40. > :10:45.training camp and I was in France and arranged to meeting in Nice. I
:10:46. > :10:49.had to pick up something from a Spanish doctor. I went to Spain,
:10:50. > :10:56.picked up the products from Johann and said to Lance, I don't want to
:10:57. > :11:03.know what it is. This is the team director. Yes. I spent the night in
:11:04. > :11:06.France and gave it to Lance the following morning. In your book you
:11:07. > :11:13.wrote that it felt like carrying kryptonite. It was terrifying. There
:11:14. > :11:19.is never a lion or a queue at that border crossing. This Sunday, there
:11:20. > :11:25.was `` line. It was the longest 15 minutes of my life. I thought, this
:11:26. > :11:31.is it. I had done the Tour in 1998. I saw the police bring in the
:11:32. > :11:34.riders. If you get 72 hours before a phone call, I thought, 72 hours
:11:35. > :11:41.before I get a phone call. I was scared. We are talking about this
:11:42. > :11:46.code of silence, this own are tough. We have spoken about this before ``
:11:47. > :11:55.omerta. This affected the whole team. The whole cycling. From top to
:11:56. > :12:02.bottom. How do you reflect on that 15 years later? It was the best of
:12:03. > :12:07.times and the worst of times because we had great memories. In all
:12:08. > :12:10.fairness, it has been stripped of it since, but that lad won the Tour de
:12:11. > :12:15.France after coming back from cancer. That was great. I don't mean
:12:16. > :12:20.the story from a commercial point of view, but it was a hopeful story
:12:21. > :12:24.about dreams coming true. You paint a picture of a man with enormous
:12:25. > :12:30.work ethic who has fought back from serious illness and who is therefore
:12:31. > :12:33.not all bad. There is a relativity. That is another reason why I could
:12:34. > :12:38.forgive him, because I have seen the good side of him, I have seen him
:12:39. > :12:45.when he is tired, when he is exhilarated, when he is at in a good
:12:46. > :12:51.and bad mood, the same with me too. I am not a lance apologist. Because
:12:52. > :12:56.I have seen the bad of him and I have been victim of that `` Lance. I
:12:57. > :13:03.don't believe people change. I have seen a good side to him. He asked
:13:04. > :13:14.you to borrow make up to cover up needle last in his arm. Yes. I was
:13:15. > :13:19.facilitating cheating. That is why the whole thing was messed up. I
:13:20. > :13:24.wished I could think of a different word. It was bizarre, surreal. Here
:13:25. > :13:29.is a guy going to be press conference with bruises and he is
:13:30. > :13:33.asking me for my make up. I am going to say, you need more than
:13:34. > :13:38.foundation. He is saying, whatever. I am a blow. We are in the toilet of
:13:39. > :13:45.his bedroom and he is rubbing it, and I think it looks useless ``
:13:46. > :13:52.bloke. The whole thing was absurd. It was building up. When did you
:13:53. > :13:54.decide you have had enough of this? There was a breakdown in the
:13:55. > :14:03.relationship with the director of the team, it wasn't there? When I
:14:04. > :14:09.was 30, I said, I was done with this. I have seen how if you stay
:14:10. > :14:14.too long, the sport owns you. I didn't want that. At this point, the
:14:15. > :14:17.second part of the story develops and the second part of his
:14:18. > :14:24.culpability in the cover`up, the lies, the bullion to potential
:14:25. > :14:30.witnesses. `` bullying. Describe this monster. At his worst. You have
:14:31. > :14:46.described him at his best. Let's describe him at his worst.
:14:47. > :14:54.When David Walsh approached you, there were presumably doubts, you
:14:55. > :14:59.are breaking the code of silence. What tipped it for you? What made
:15:00. > :15:02.you decide to tell the story? I had been approached, journalists had
:15:03. > :15:09.approached me, they thought I had been fired. I thought, if that is a
:15:10. > :15:13.story, you should be looking into cycling to see how flawed it is. It
:15:14. > :15:20.took me a few years to think, just because you were clean doesn't mean
:15:21. > :15:24.you want a facilitator. Sometimes, by not telling the truth you are
:15:25. > :15:27.telling a lie. They had already started that process, and spoken to
:15:28. > :15:32.a couple of my friends who were in the business. When David came, he
:15:33. > :15:36.came at a good time. I thought, this is a good journalist who writes for
:15:37. > :15:42.a good newspaper, he has a brilliant reputation, and he will do a story.
:15:43. > :15:51.He won't do scandal. I didn't want it to be about the scandal of riders
:15:52. > :15:56.doing drugs, I want it to be about cycling, the culture of cycling.
:15:57. > :16:02.Where they have to choose, if they don't cheat they go home. Did you
:16:03. > :16:08.feel that you were guilty for portraying Armstrong, or did you
:16:09. > :16:13.feel that you were on your own path for redemption? It wasn't that I was
:16:14. > :16:20.betraying bands, I was betraying the team `` Lance. I was in a good
:16:21. > :16:25.position to do that, because I was out of the sport, so I wasn't making
:16:26. > :16:30.my livelihood out of it. It didn't owe me anything, I didn't have any
:16:31. > :16:36.into it. Then, what followed, is it went into the hands of the lawyers.
:16:37. > :16:47.That is when the unpleasant allegations from Armstrong came out.
:16:48. > :16:54.The book was eventually released, LA Confidential. How did Armstrong
:16:55. > :16:59.react to what you said in the book? Like a nuclear missile, having a bad
:17:00. > :17:09.day, the way he react. Talk about over react. One of the big mistakes
:17:10. > :17:13.he made was making it about himself. It wasn't about him, it was
:17:14. > :17:18.about drugs in cycling. He made it all personal. Has a seven time Tour
:17:19. > :17:25.de France winner, that was going to happen. I think it was only for five
:17:26. > :17:29.at the time. The thing with him is it always has to be about him, it
:17:30. > :17:33.wasn't always about him. In hindsight, that took a bit away from
:17:34. > :17:40.the fact that we were trying to look after him. When he came out to me, I
:17:41. > :17:50.felt somewhat deserved it, because I had broken the code of silence.
:17:51. > :18:01.David has had to listen to me give him loads, because I didn't expect
:18:02. > :18:06.the ferocity of the attack. I was very naive. Is that my fault? Was at
:18:07. > :18:13.up to the media to train me, or was it up to me to find out? Ditty
:18:14. > :18:19.effectively cut you loose? No, he never fully cut loose, no. What did
:18:20. > :18:22.he do that was wrong? What I felt was wrong was that he said there
:18:23. > :18:26.were other people who would talk, that I wasn't on my own. And it
:18:27. > :18:32.turned out that yes, there were others, but a few of us were the
:18:33. > :18:38.only idiots who were prepared to give our names and stand by what we
:18:39. > :18:43.said. The impression he gave was that there was a big gang of us and
:18:44. > :18:50.we were in it together. Your life was entirely taken over by it.
:18:51. > :18:56.Absolutely. You sigh, the look on your face. It was a horrible time,
:18:57. > :19:02.because all they seemed to do was to go to work, and then come
:19:03. > :19:07.deal with lawyers, right things down, have them on the phone. It was
:19:08. > :19:11.this constant pressure. And all the time I felt bad for having spoken
:19:12. > :19:14.out, even though my instincts said I had done the right thing, but my
:19:15. > :19:22.logic was asking how I could have done it. I was tormented. And yet,
:19:23. > :19:26.finally, Armstrong goes on to the Oprah Winfrey show and confesses.
:19:27. > :19:34.That must have lifted a weight off your shoulders. It before he went to
:19:35. > :19:40.Oprah, it had been shown that what I was saying was true, because ASADA
:19:41. > :19:52.report came out, and a couple of other riders said. When he said on
:19:53. > :19:57.Oprah that the others were telling the truth, it was physical relief I
:19:58. > :19:59.felt. That was when I realise how much I had been carrying it. It had
:20:00. > :20:04.affected my confidence over the years, and I had become more
:20:05. > :20:09.introverted and quiet. I definitely changed over that period of time. I
:20:10. > :20:14.suppose we are always up to the present `` almost up to the present,
:20:15. > :20:21.in a sense. Since that interview with Oprah Winfrey, which was early
:20:22. > :20:27.last year, January 2013, how is your relationship with Armstrong and with
:20:28. > :20:32.cycling, how has it developed? There was the meeting in Florida, do you
:20:33. > :20:36.still have contact with him? Yes, to me, the meeting was just the start
:20:37. > :20:42.of it. Things have got better and stronger since then, we speak on the
:20:43. > :20:48.phone and e`mail and text regularly. Now, it is nice. Now it is nicer
:20:49. > :20:53.than it was in Florida, because then we were just trying to meet up and
:20:54. > :20:59.develop, to see if there was any trust. I have fallen back in love
:21:00. > :21:07.with the bike a bit, I have even got a bike. Betsy Andre, another key
:21:08. > :21:12.witness against Armstrong, she is critical of your situation. She
:21:13. > :21:16.suggest that Lance Armstrong is using new as a character witness in
:21:17. > :21:21.his rehabilitation. How do you respond to that? People will always
:21:22. > :21:26.say that. We are all at different places in our lives, and I met a
:21:27. > :21:30.place where I don't feel used. I am in a place where I can move on by
:21:31. > :21:34.forgiving Lance and by the two of us talking. It has been the best step
:21:35. > :21:39.for putting all that nonsense behind me and trying to learn from what it
:21:40. > :21:43.is. That is where Ray, and people will always say I am being used.
:21:44. > :21:49.People say I have battered wife syndrome, Stockholm syndrome,
:21:50. > :21:53.whatever. I am happy I have forgiven months, and I'm happy we are
:21:54. > :21:58.talking. That is all that matters, really. I'm trying to get a sense of
:21:59. > :22:03.the debt of his apology to you. The close, he hasn't apologised to
:22:04. > :22:07.others, has he? To some people. Just because it worked for me doesn't
:22:08. > :22:11.mean it will work for others. For other people, he has done worst
:22:12. > :22:15.things than call them a few names. We know now that Armstrong has
:22:16. > :22:22.talked to the UCI. You have anything to say to them? Nothing that hasn't
:22:23. > :22:27.already been said. Your story is complete? Yes, because now I want to
:22:28. > :22:33.move on with my life, get on with things. Naturally, lawyers will have
:22:34. > :22:41.been crawling all over the book, and will probably need to review this
:22:42. > :22:45.interview itself. I wonder, you talk about moving on, and I entirely
:22:46. > :22:49.understand that. Maybe, as I look at you now, there are some seek it in
:22:50. > :22:55.there that you will never reveal. There probably are few that I will
:22:56. > :22:57.never reveal. Because you will get pain from them or they will land
:22:58. > :23:04.other people in trouble? Probably both. Sometimes, things are just
:23:05. > :23:07.best left. Because of the pain I have been through and the pain it
:23:08. > :23:16.has caused others, sometimes you need to let sleeping dogs lie.
:23:17. > :23:18.However deeply the UCI investigates the doping culture among the sport,
:23:19. > :23:24.you may not be unique in holding back information, we will probably
:23:25. > :23:28.never know the full story, will be? I don't think we will. A big part of
:23:29. > :23:32.the story is emotional. Some people aren't going to go to places. It is
:23:33. > :23:39.not just about saying, in this race I did that, and in this race I did
:23:40. > :23:43.this, it is emotional as well. Some people aren't, because sometimes
:23:44. > :23:50.your stories... All of your stories involve other people, so it is out
:23:51. > :23:53.of loyalty to other people that... And also emotion, that you don't
:23:54. > :23:59.want to go back to the dark place. We will never know everything.
:24:00. > :24:02.Investigative journalists will always exist, and they will always
:24:03. > :24:09.be calling your number and knocking on your door. I don't think so.
:24:10. > :24:13.Don't you. Now they know that you have some secrets hidden away that
:24:14. > :24:43.you won't tell. I won't tell. That's right. Thank you very much.
:24:44. > :24:51.If it wasn't for the fact that the sun feels quite warm when it comes
:24:52. > :24:52.out, you would think it was April,