Willie Mullins

:00:00. > :00:19.Welcome to this edition of Extra Time from Ireland. We are at the

:00:20. > :00:22.County Carlow base of champion trainer Willie Mullins, the man

:00:23. > :00:28.whose dominance of the sport has reached seldom seen levels. He sent

:00:29. > :00:33.out eight winners at last year's Cheltenham Festival, the Olympics of

:00:34. > :00:37.jump racing. Although high-profile casualties have hit his hopes for

:00:38. > :00:42.the 2016 edition he is set to field a formidable team. Stay tuned as we

:00:43. > :00:43.endeavour to find out if he can improve on that impressive 2015

:00:44. > :01:14.tally. Willie Mullins, welcome to this

:01:15. > :01:19.special edition of Extra Time from your stables here south of Dublin.

:01:20. > :01:28.The 2016 Giazzon festival is almost here. Last year you won eight of the

:01:29. > :01:32.27 races. -- Cheltenham. What would constitute a successful festival

:01:33. > :01:41.this time? It would great to get aid. Last year was fantastic for us.

:01:42. > :01:44.We have a big team -- eight. If we have championship races, that will

:01:45. > :01:49.make it worthwhile. It is hard to know. Once it starts, if we can get

:01:50. > :01:52.a winner on the first day it relaxes everyone and then hopefully after

:01:53. > :01:59.that we will be lucky enough to get a couple more over the four days we

:02:00. > :02:01.would be pleased. I have looked at your Star Wars is this money despite

:02:02. > :02:12.the bad weather. Where do your biggest hopes like over the next

:02:13. > :02:20.days -- star horses. I am match and Du Vin steps into that scenario. --

:02:21. > :02:27.lie. Putting your biggest hope on a novice chaser... He has done nothing

:02:28. > :02:33.wrong in his career so far. He must be one of the best chances. What is

:02:34. > :02:35.it about Du Vin that excites you? I think you have said this is

:02:36. > :02:43.potentially the best horse you have had. Every time he works for us at

:02:44. > :02:47.home, he works so well. When he goes to the racetrack he has done the

:02:48. > :02:51.same. Looking at his size and scope, he is a huge horse, over 17

:02:52. > :02:58.hands, and yet he is like a horse that is about a hand smaller, a 16

:02:59. > :03:01.hand horse. He has great use of himself, considering how big he is.

:03:02. > :03:05.Most people don't like buying the courses because they are too gangly

:03:06. > :03:12.but he is a huge athlete. -- courses. He is able to carry his

:03:13. > :03:16.frame so easily -- horses. He takes jumps as if they are not there. He

:03:17. > :03:23.is just a natural. And he has huge ability. The Cheltenham Gold cup is

:03:24. > :03:26.seen as the feature event, the blue ribbon of steeplechasing. This time

:03:27. > :03:30.around it is one of the races to have eluded you but this time you

:03:31. > :03:37.are going in with a strong hand. The three horses are Jack Adam, Don Poly

:03:38. > :03:43.and one other. How optimistic are you that one of them can win this

:03:44. > :03:46.for you? Jack Adam, as a six-year-old last year, came second,

:03:47. > :03:53.beaten by a very good horse. He came back this year in the John Dawkins,

:03:54. > :03:58.he put in a huge performance to win over two and a half miles. Looking

:03:59. > :04:02.at that speed he showed, and we know he has the stamina to stay the trip,

:04:03. > :04:09.that is a big plus for him going into the race. Don Poly has raced

:04:10. > :04:14.twice at Cheltenham. He has won twice. He loves going up that hill.

:04:15. > :04:22.I think the extra trip he will encounter in the three miles will be

:04:23. > :04:27.right up his street. Vature has won twice at Cheltenham and has been

:04:28. > :04:32.very impressive. Left-handed, up and down hills, undulating, I think it

:04:33. > :04:35.suits him very well. So, his March form is always about a stone better

:04:36. > :04:40.than his winter form, so going into the festival, if he can reproduce

:04:41. > :04:43.what he has done over the last few years, that put him in with a

:04:44. > :04:46.winning chance. Looking at the Cheltenham Festival as a whole, it

:04:47. > :04:50.has evolved quite a bit in the last 20 or 30 years in your period as a

:04:51. > :04:53.racehorse trainer. How much importance to you place on these

:04:54. > :04:57.four days? Does it define your season essentially? It is great to

:04:58. > :05:04.have an event like chop them for national racing. It puts it right up

:05:05. > :05:07.there for this week, the whole year, between press, radio, newspaper, all

:05:08. > :05:17.of the social media. It gets top billing. It is very, very important.

:05:18. > :05:21.It is important for us because we can use it as a PR tool to get

:05:22. > :05:27.people interested in having a horse and maybe having a horse good enough

:05:28. > :05:31.to go to chop them, and having a successful Cheltenham is very

:05:32. > :05:34.important -- Cheltenham. There are other things in racing, like the

:05:35. > :05:39.championship, when big races at home, and... At it is right up

:05:40. > :05:43.there. It has to be. Many people mightn't be a way but you rode

:05:44. > :05:49.winners as well at Cheltenham, including as a jockey. We will leave

:05:50. > :05:54.that bind. I lucky enough to have ridden two national hunt race

:05:55. > :05:59.winners. -- behind. And tell us what that feeling is like write into the

:06:00. > :06:03.winners division at Cheltenham, particularly on a horse who was an

:06:04. > :06:09.Irish banker. That is right. It was tremendous. For any jockey riding a

:06:10. > :06:12.winner at Cheltenham, going up the straight, if you are like the enough

:06:13. > :06:19.and you are winning easy enough to enjoy it, -- lucky enough. My tongue

:06:20. > :06:24.was hanging out from exhaustion trying to ride him. Once you pull up

:06:25. > :06:31.and the roar is starting in the stands, and then the walk back

:06:32. > :06:35.down... Not the tunnel but the passageway where the horses walk

:06:36. > :06:39.back down and around and into the parade ring, you just don't want it

:06:40. > :06:44.to end. It's a fantastic feeling. I envy jockeys nowadays who are lucky

:06:45. > :06:48.enough to experience that. We touched on your family involvement

:06:49. > :06:52.in racing there. It is a great pedigree you have. Your father was a

:06:53. > :06:59.successful trainer for 50 years plus. Obviously your son Patrick is

:07:00. > :07:06.a champion amateur rider. Was raising a certainty from day one for

:07:07. > :07:10.you? -- racing. I don't know. I always like horses. I tried other

:07:11. > :07:15.things. I had no interest. I didn't really like going to school. I think

:07:16. > :07:24.horses probably were the place I was going to end up. So, you know, a

:07:25. > :07:30.sort of... People were telling me... It always came back to

:07:31. > :07:35.horses. Tell us about the transition from jockey to trainer. Was it

:07:36. > :07:41.pretty seamless? Did you always feel a career in the training ranks was

:07:42. > :07:46.for you? Yes. Once I decided racing was it rather than going into

:07:47. > :07:49.another branch of horses, and I wasn't sure whether I would enjoy

:07:50. > :07:56.it, but it is a natural progression, and then once I got

:07:57. > :07:59.into training, you know, I didn't think there was anything going to be

:08:00. > :08:03.as good as riding horses, but actually that trainer winner at

:08:04. > :08:09.Cheltenham especially gives you huge satisfaction. Much more than I had

:08:10. > :08:14.anticipated. Tell us about the early days. I heard a story that perhaps

:08:15. > :08:21.you can put more flesh on the bones of when you got your trainer's

:08:22. > :08:24.licence. Was there a club inspection when you needed six horses. I went

:08:25. > :08:31.for a dual license. You had to have four forces. I had six to start. --

:08:32. > :08:34.horses. I think I had for riding out and I needed to Matt Moore and one

:08:35. > :08:38.was a broodmare down the field and one mightn't have just been alive at

:08:39. > :08:44.the time but we still have the passport. So, the day that

:08:45. > :08:48.inspection was, obviously they were away galloping someone else, but

:08:49. > :08:57.everyone has to start somewhere and I am sure the inspector, Stephen

:08:58. > :09:01.Quirke, who was a train himself, he knows, you know, people have to get

:09:02. > :09:06.started, and maybe you overlook certain things like our schooling

:09:07. > :09:09.grounds. And I said to Stephen, we are way down over that field and

:09:10. > :09:13.looking at your shoes, I'm not sure we will go down the course, looking

:09:14. > :09:24.down there. And Stephen looked at me, winked and said, that's fine,

:09:25. > :09:27.Willie. So, we got on from there and, you know, everyone needs to

:09:28. > :09:32.start from somewhere and we were lucky enough to get our few winners

:09:33. > :09:37.in the first year and it progressed from there. The obvious question is,

:09:38. > :09:41.from those humble beginnings, just how have you managed to build your

:09:42. > :09:47.current strength of forces to what it is today at about 150 in training

:09:48. > :09:51.at a given time? Yes. A lot of disappointment. A lot of money lost.

:09:52. > :09:57.At that time you put your own money in. You know, we least horses, we

:09:58. > :10:01.bought cheap horses, we sold them on. Were there times when you

:10:02. > :10:06.thought maybe you were doing the wrong thing going into this? No. It

:10:07. > :10:13.wasn't like that. I always look forward. It was more work. It was

:10:14. > :10:17.what I was going to do. I couldn't contemplate not doing it and going

:10:18. > :10:23.working somewhere else. It never entered my head and I thought, maybe

:10:24. > :10:30.that's... That's part of it, that you actually... I was just looking

:10:31. > :10:34.forward... You know, would you be able to be champion trainer, could

:10:35. > :10:37.you be good enough trainer to have you know maybe 30 or 40 horses and

:10:38. > :10:41.that's what we were looking at that time. That was probably the biggest

:10:42. > :10:48.hunt trainer in Ireland. One or two hunt trainers might have had more.

:10:49. > :10:54.You know, so, I always look at it like this was going to work.

:10:55. > :10:58.Training horses, that's the way... It was just getting the right

:10:59. > :11:03.horses, getting the right... You know it always looked a lot simpler

:11:04. > :11:07.than it worked out. You probably just don't realise the

:11:08. > :11:13.disappointment. When you buy horses, they are bad and you've got to go

:11:14. > :11:19.out and borrow more money. It is tough. But it's what I was brought

:11:20. > :11:23.up with, so I knew where to turn, where to go if things went wrong

:11:24. > :11:27.like they do all the time. We've got an insight into the running of a

:11:28. > :11:31.massive operation like this this morning. Lots and lots of staff

:11:32. > :11:35.obviously. How do you run the yard? Are you a disciplinarian or do you

:11:36. > :11:39.like to see things running smoothly without too much intervention from

:11:40. > :11:45.yourself? I got a good piece of advice early on in my career. You

:11:46. > :11:49.should run your business on the 3D principle, decide, delegate and

:11:50. > :11:53.disappear. And I tend to do that. I like to be there in the mornings on

:11:54. > :11:56.the gallop, I like to be there in the afternoon, I like to let my

:11:57. > :12:00.headman and girls get on with the job. And I try not to interfere with

:12:01. > :12:04.it. It gets done, probably not the way I want it done, but they do it

:12:05. > :12:12.their way and they get over it and then I go around at night time just

:12:13. > :12:17.having a look at the things, but... Basically, I have good people, I

:12:18. > :12:24.give them free rein to work away and look after their own staff. And it

:12:25. > :12:26.is... When you give people responsibility, it is tremendous how

:12:27. > :12:33.they grow and they enjoy the responsibility. That works for me.

:12:34. > :12:36.How exactly do you go about acquiring the calibre of staff you

:12:37. > :12:41.seem to have here? Is it a chicken and egg scenario? Are people keen to

:12:42. > :12:45.come here because of the status? That has been the bonus over the

:12:46. > :12:50.last few years, yes. People want to work here. And you can get quality

:12:51. > :12:55.people. But before that... You go back to the Celtic Tiger times and I

:12:56. > :12:58.couldn't get anyone to work in the stable yard because there was so

:12:59. > :13:02.much money to be made doing other jobs, you know, in the building

:13:03. > :13:06.industry or in catering, you know, a lot of indoor jobs. It is a tough

:13:07. > :13:11.life here. I just fell this morning riding out on a Monday morning. And

:13:12. > :13:15.before everyone came here, our guys had been, first lot, you know, hail,

:13:16. > :13:22.rain or snow they are here. They know that is the life. And now...

:13:23. > :13:27.That's just the sort of ethos here that... The way we do it. People

:13:28. > :13:32.come in, they learn and they pick it up. If we see people deviating from

:13:33. > :13:37.that, it had better be very good, what they are trying to do, instead

:13:38. > :13:43.of what we do. And we look at it and we will see, and then decide, no,

:13:44. > :13:47.maybe leave that and do it our way, or maybe we will take on board what

:13:48. > :13:50.you are saying. I think that Alaba staff it is fair to say expense to

:13:51. > :13:56.your team of jockeys. Your number one is a household name, Ruby Walsh,

:13:57. > :13:59.the most successful jockey at children of all time, considered one

:14:00. > :14:04.of the best is not the best of all time over jumps. Give us an insight

:14:05. > :14:09.into your relationship on him that met with him on a day-to-day basis.

:14:10. > :14:10.However what is he? His experience of all tracks now in England a huge

:14:11. > :14:25.benefit. How he knows all the opposition in

:14:26. > :14:33.different races... When we talk about riding in a race with hurdles,

:14:34. > :14:41.Ruby will know it inside out and know how it will pan out. We will go

:14:42. > :14:46.through the merits of our horse and what might happen that would not

:14:47. > :14:53.suit him, and we will try and... Have a plan to use the merits of the

:14:54. > :14:59.horse to the best possible advantage. His knowledge means that

:15:00. > :15:05.he is actually going to do it. He will tell me what he thinks, and

:15:06. > :15:10.unless I think something totally different, we will probably do what

:15:11. > :15:19.he says. All the other jockeys riding with him... And the staff,

:15:20. > :15:23.riding with him every day, they pick up on that and the fact that he

:15:24. > :15:30.knows all of that. They try and copy that, they look at everything around

:15:31. > :15:37.them. It gives them confidence that they are able to learn from him just

:15:38. > :15:42.walking around. When they ride in races, it gives them confidence.

:15:43. > :15:49.What about the horses themselves? You have to be able to train them to

:15:50. > :15:57.the best possible ability? What about the kind of forces we have

:15:58. > :16:03.seen on the programme this morning? We have scouts, agents. We have to

:16:04. > :16:09.very good agents. We have one in Ireland and one in France. They

:16:10. > :16:14.spend all their time trying to source these horses. People with

:16:15. > :16:20.those horses know they are like people. People used to ring me, but

:16:21. > :16:26.I didn't have the time to do it. So they get it done, and when they have

:16:27. > :16:31.picked out my sources, we discuss it and then we try and find a client.

:16:32. > :16:40.Or, clients come to us and say that they want a horse. But those horses

:16:41. > :16:50.are not around... You can't go in and buy them. I have a big budget.

:16:51. > :16:56.We will come back within 24 hours with a horse. But sometimes you can

:16:57. > :17:02.wait for months and months for the right horse. The French market has

:17:03. > :17:08.become quite important? Are they perhaps more minded to sell their

:17:09. > :17:18.horses? We find when we go to buy in France, they have a price standard.

:17:19. > :17:24.With Irish forces, they are racing people. They want to race their

:17:25. > :17:32.horses. It is hard to buy a top-class horse in Ireland. They can

:17:33. > :17:37.be bought privately right after a race, or else go to a sale. There

:17:38. > :17:46.are quite a few sales that have sprung up in the last few years. It

:17:47. > :17:50.is a different market. I'm sure you've heard it said that one

:17:51. > :17:54.person's dominance is not necessarily good for the sport. How

:17:55. > :18:01.do you feel when people say that? Is it a compliment? I suppose it is. We

:18:02. > :18:07.can do nothing, only enjoy it at the moment. The nature of sport and

:18:08. > :18:21.life, it is psychical. We are at the top at the moment, we may not be in

:18:22. > :18:33.a few is' time. How much do you enjoy it on a day to day basis? I

:18:34. > :18:40.pace myself. -- cyclical. I go to the bar and look at the talent, and

:18:41. > :18:47.we wonder... Ourselves and our staff, we look at what would be in

:18:48. > :18:54.each current, and you think any trainer would love to have that. I

:18:55. > :19:00.said to my son, don't think this is normal. This is not normal. This is

:19:01. > :19:03.extraordinary. We are lucky enough to be in this position, but I don't

:19:04. > :19:08.know how long we can keep it going for. How far into the future do you

:19:09. > :19:17.look? Do you see yourself doing this for a long time to come? Yes. People

:19:18. > :19:27.look at retiring when they reach a certain age, I never envisaged that.

:19:28. > :19:31.It's's what I do, what I enjoy. It is one of those jobs in sport where

:19:32. > :19:37.you are able to have a longer career, not like an athlete like a

:19:38. > :19:45.footballer? Some trainers get better as they get older. Some people think

:19:46. > :19:52.that the experience you get from training helps you as you get older.

:19:53. > :20:02.You probably get more confident, too. The issue of doping is becoming

:20:03. > :20:07.quite high profile. How much of a threat to think it is to the sport

:20:08. > :20:13.at the moment? Do you think it is adequately policed? I think they are

:20:14. > :20:19.investing a lot of money in it. It is adequately policed, we have had

:20:20. > :20:25.very few cases. The few we have had have been dealt with. However, we

:20:26. > :20:29.have spent more money to try and keep up with the different types of

:20:30. > :20:35.stuff that are supposed to be used... I don't know. I think what

:20:36. > :20:41.has gone on in the last few years has been dealt with. There are two

:20:42. > :20:46.different kinds of doping. When I hear of a horse being doped, I

:20:47. > :20:54.assume it is to go slow. We always worry about that, especially coming

:20:55. > :21:02.up to a big festival. We tell the staff to be on the lookout for

:21:03. > :21:09.strange people around. I know that they think it's a bit crazy. I

:21:10. > :21:15.remember going back to the 1980s, there was a doping gang around

:21:16. > :21:19.England and Ireland. We didn't suspect at that time, but now we

:21:20. > :21:23.would know what to look for. It makes it a bit harder. Every year,

:21:24. > :21:28.there is some wiseguy who would think, we will try and do that and

:21:29. > :21:37.gain an edge. Then there is doping to make horses go faster, be

:21:38. > :21:41.stronger and such. You are on the lookout for people using steroids

:21:42. > :21:46.and things like that. I think it is the same in every sport. I think we

:21:47. > :21:50.have as good a handle on it in racing as any other sport. In recent

:21:51. > :21:55.years, it seems you have been keen to campaign your horses

:21:56. > :22:02.internationally? You were very close to winning the Melbourne Cup. How

:22:03. > :22:10.much do you enjoy that aspect of the sport? Are you keen to add the

:22:11. > :22:19.Melbourne Cup to your CV? Absently. Dumping can transfer over to the

:22:20. > :22:22.flight. Sometimes we take some of the fight to go jumping, sometimes

:22:23. > :22:28.the other way around. If we are lucky enough to win the Melbourne

:22:29. > :22:35.Cup or to compete in those types of races... You can go to Hong Kong or

:22:36. > :22:42.Japan as well. You have had success in Japan? Yes, I have. The prize

:22:43. > :22:49.money is huge in those kinds of events. Irish people should... We

:22:50. > :22:58.are good to travel, generally. I am sure we could, people could do more.

:22:59. > :23:02.Returning to the theme of the Cheltenham Festival, how much do you

:23:03. > :23:07.change things in the run-up to that every year? You have said in the

:23:08. > :23:11.past that training courses is about fuel for you, does that manifest

:23:12. > :23:16.itself at this time of year? I think so. We try to keep a routine.

:23:17. > :23:21.Getting back to what you said about changing for the festival, we try to

:23:22. > :23:25.look at what we think went wrong in the previous year and think about

:23:26. > :23:31.how we can get past it this year. If I was able to grant you one wish for

:23:32. > :23:41.Cheltenham this year? What would it be? I think a nice first day to get

:23:42. > :23:45.on the board. When the first one goes in, it is like someone letting

:23:46. > :23:54.the air out of the tyres. A great relief. I think it settles everyone

:23:55. > :24:00.down. If you are going into the second or third day looking for a

:24:01. > :24:03.winner, we would be hair out at that stage. Good luck at the Cheltenham

:24:04. > :24:27.Festival and thank you very much for joining us.

:24:28. > :24:31.Given the amount of rain which many of us have seen