:00:21. > :00:27.Tonight: The businessman, Hartlepool's chief gives a rare
:00:28. > :00:37.interview. We try and run this club like we do the oil companies.
:00:38. > :00:38.
:00:38. > :00:47.The oldest scout in the business, we need 19-year-old talent-spotter.
:00:47. > :00:52.Still in business, this man is back from the dead, for now at least.
:00:52. > :00:57.Hello. Welcome to Late Kick Off. Joining Danny Mills and myself, the
:00:57. > :01:03.walking wounded, for much Boro Hartlepool * Craig Hignett. You
:01:03. > :01:11.have got some explaining to do. haven't, I had just heard myself
:01:11. > :01:17.badly and had an operation. What did you do? I had 8 hip operation.
:01:17. > :01:21.I fractured my hip. But it is getting better. I need to send for
:01:21. > :01:26.a health correspondent. Was it an accident, or residue from playing
:01:26. > :01:31.time? It has come On Over two years, but in the end I could not bend
:01:32. > :01:36.down so something had to be done. I did it five weeks ago. You have not
:01:36. > :01:41.stopped when hit -- a whingeing that he paid �35 for those crutches.
:01:41. > :01:48.And devastated! Tonight, as a successful
:01:48. > :01:53.businessman, Ken Hodcroft knows the importance of profit, so why does
:01:53. > :01:56.his company want to own a loss- making football club. He doesn't do
:01:56. > :02:06.many interviews, but gave Katie Gornall a rare glimpse into his
:02:06. > :02:21.
:02:21. > :02:26.I enjoy what I'd do it and like to think that I can get on with most
:02:26. > :02:36.or all of the staff. We have a joke and a laugh. The worst invention
:02:36. > :02:43.
:02:44. > :02:48.It is open. Hands-on with regard to what the club is doing. We have to
:02:48. > :02:54.spend a lot of time, mainly because it is the only company in our group
:02:54. > :02:58.that loses money. Why did you want to get into football? In 1997, Sky
:02:59. > :03:03.was getting underway and been involved in the football side was
:03:03. > :03:09.becoming a very interesting business opportunity. It was mainly
:03:10. > :03:18.for the exposure corporate wives. We decided that Hartlepool would be
:03:18. > :03:27.a good thing to be involved in. -- in terms of corporation.
:03:27. > :03:31.average fan it was either against you're subsidising the club. If it
:03:31. > :03:40.was a normal business, you would cut your losses, but why is full
:03:40. > :03:47.board different? In the whole scheme of things, the million
:03:47. > :03:50.pounds is what Major companies would spend on advertising. What
:03:50. > :03:55.are the challenges of running a football club in League One in a
:03:55. > :03:59.recession? It is a big challenge, especially with a club like
:03:59. > :04:03.Hartlepool and other clubs in our division that have a low fan-base.
:04:03. > :04:11.We do not get the amount of people through the gates who we would like
:04:11. > :04:17.to. 7,000 would be good to again. Painful price, that is what the
:04:17. > :04:22.break-even is of a club like ours. It is difficult, there is not much
:04:22. > :04:25.money around, we have to do incentives for fans. It is
:04:25. > :04:30.difficult for businesses. It is made more difficult that the money
:04:30. > :04:38.that comes in from Sky and the Premiership, the money the Football
:04:38. > :04:44.League give us, is not enough. They could help if they wanted to.
:04:44. > :04:48.the moment, football finances have come into sharp focus with the
:04:48. > :04:54.situation at Darlington. Do you have sympathy for what they are
:04:54. > :04:59.going through? Idea, but again, I am back to the Football League. It
:04:59. > :05:03.is time we made a stand. If the club is going to go out of business,
:05:03. > :05:08.you have to let it go out of business. For some reason, they
:05:08. > :05:11.seem to be against the idea of letting that happen. I'm sure
:05:11. > :05:16.Darlington will come around, it will be bought by someone else and
:05:16. > :05:20.keep its position in the leak. In three years' time, it may be in a
:05:20. > :05:25.administration again. This cannot go on. The Football League have to
:05:25. > :05:30.say, if you have failed, you are out. There is no rescue, you are
:05:30. > :05:39.gone. It works in business and it will work in football, I will
:05:39. > :05:44.guarantee you. As we run this club like the oil companies, and in the
:05:44. > :05:47.oil business, there is no sentiment. We do not run the football club
:05:47. > :05:53.like a football club. The manager is not told at the beginning of the
:05:53. > :05:55.season that he has a budget to spend. If there is anyone here he
:05:55. > :06:00.is interested in a player, they have to follow a procedure, which
:06:00. > :06:05.is a normal, something like we had in the oil business for buying
:06:05. > :06:10.equipment. There is talk of purchasing Victoria Park and owning
:06:10. > :06:16.it out right. What is happening now? We took on a East one we took
:06:16. > :06:20.over the club and it is for 65 years with 50 years left. We pay
:06:20. > :06:24.annual rent to the Council. The main thing is for the council to
:06:24. > :06:29.recognise that this is not their crown jewels, it is an economic
:06:29. > :06:34.benefit to the town and the people of Hartlepool, and the region. If
:06:34. > :06:39.we cannot look after our business after 14 years, bent there may be a
:06:39. > :06:44.time when the owners say they are not going to invest any more. We do
:06:44. > :06:48.not wanted to happen, but we have to be realistic. Investing 30
:06:48. > :06:58.million in a business that is not yours, I don't think anyone will do
:06:58. > :06:59.
:06:59. > :07:05.A very honest interview with Ken Hodcroft. You can hear it in full
:07:05. > :07:11.on our website. Does his frankness shock you? He is unbelievably
:07:11. > :07:15.honest. Reading what he is saying, he is saying that if he pulls out
:07:15. > :07:21.of the club, our people are doomed and they go out of business
:07:21. > :07:31.completely because they are losing �1.5 million a year. If he goes,
:07:31. > :07:35.
:07:35. > :07:42.the club is doomed and they are Do you like being compared to a
:07:42. > :07:51.piece of equipment? You cannot run a football club like a business.
:07:51. > :07:55.Why not? It is not just his ambition. If you buy a piece of
:07:55. > :08:00.equipment you know what that equipment will do. If you buy a
:08:00. > :08:04.printer or it will print sheets. If you buy a player it is not the same.
:08:04. > :08:14.Sometimes the are good. Sometimes they're bad. It is the human
:08:14. > :08:16.
:08:16. > :08:23.element. He is incredibly honest. I can see what he's doing, but he has
:08:23. > :08:30.got no emotion for the football club or the players. But the way he
:08:30. > :08:37.has gone about it has been a success for one decade. He said it
:08:38. > :08:47.cost him at �1.5 million per year. In business you can be successful,
:08:48. > :08:49.
:08:49. > :08:56.but there is not much to win. wanted to get involved for the
:08:56. > :09:03.exposure and the advertisement for his company. It does not sit well
:09:03. > :09:13.with me. As a supporter I want Mike German to come out and say what he
:09:13. > :09:19.
:09:19. > :09:29.stands for. -- I want the chairman. He sacked his manager because the
:09:29. > :09:33.
:09:33. > :09:38.results were not right. Hartlepool have been trying to help their
:09:38. > :09:45.neighbours out. On the subject of Darlington what a dramatic day last
:09:45. > :09:52.Wednesday. At lunchtime it looked like 129 years of history have come
:09:53. > :10:02.to an end. Then a those heroic supporters came along with the big
:10:03. > :10:03.
:10:03. > :10:10.bag of cash. The club keep going for three more games. Seven days
:10:10. > :10:15.ago you suggested that they should go out of business. 6,000 people
:10:15. > :10:22.turned up at the game. �8,000. Where would they have been if the
:10:22. > :10:28.club had gone bust? I said that the business model was fundamentally
:10:28. > :10:33.broken. What I would say to Darlington supporters is come out
:10:33. > :10:42.again next weekend and for the rest of the season. And we will need
:10:42. > :10:50.another bag of �50,000, because that money will run out. I will
:10:50. > :11:00.shove a few quid in a pot of somebody comes by. Someone has come
:11:00. > :11:02.
:11:02. > :11:07.in at the last minute. It is just a stop gap. It is not a stop-gap.
:11:07. > :11:17.These people are going to take it over as a leisure facility. It
:11:17. > :11:20.
:11:20. > :11:25.could work. The talk is that the council will relax a covenant.
:11:25. > :11:35.There might be some houses. There might be some leisure facilities.
:11:35. > :11:39.
:11:39. > :11:43.It needs to be sustainable. That is the point that I was trying to make.
:11:43. > :11:53.On to Hartlepool's game at the weekend. A commendable. Away at
:11:53. > :11:58.
:11:58. > :12:04.Hillsborough. What is a reasonable target for them this season?
:12:04. > :12:10.think top half is a reasonable think top half is a reasonable
:12:10. > :12:20.target. If they could get near the play-offs, then brilliant. This is
:12:20. > :12:24.
:12:24. > :12:26.a great result. That is one hell of a strike. I think the goalkeeper
:12:26. > :12:34.may be disappointed when he sees may be disappointed when he sees
:12:34. > :12:44.that one. I am glad he had the best comedy was celebrating! I have seen
:12:44. > :12:48.
:12:48. > :12:58.his body! Carlisle missed a chance to retake a place in the play-offs.
:12:58. > :12:59.
:12:59. > :13:03.Should we be concerned about their Should we be concerned about their
:13:03. > :13:12.consistency? Lee Miller got the goal. It is a disappointing penalty
:13:12. > :13:20.to give away. Was it a penalty? Anywhere else on the pitch it is a
:13:20. > :13:30.foul. Unless these clubs get massive investment it is a constant
:13:30. > :13:30.
:13:30. > :13:40.massive investment it is a constant juggling act to key players happy.
:13:40. > :13:53.
:13:53. > :14:02.Still to come - Middlesbrough see Before we see the Middlesbrough
:14:02. > :14:10.game, Steve Bruce believes there is no substitute for experience. Jack
:14:10. > :14:20.Watson, his chief scout, is 90 years old. Tony Mowbray snapped him
:14:20. > :14:26.
:14:26. > :14:32.up. Our reporter has been to meet the Scout master. They reckon I am
:14:32. > :14:39.the oldest scrotum the country. When Jack get excited about a
:14:39. > :14:47.player I get excited about a player. I am a co-ordinator for want of a
:14:47. > :14:56.better name. He has not always had a fancy a job title, but he has
:14:56. > :15:06.been a scout for over half a century. Awareness, vision, pace,
:15:06. > :15:13.
:15:13. > :15:20.commitment. It clicks street away. Sometimes if he does not fancy then
:15:20. > :15:24.he might want to continue to monitor them. I like to see them
:15:24. > :15:34.play home and away. Sometimes they are different players when they are
:15:34. > :15:44.
:15:44. > :15:51.at home. Jack head up a scouting network. We have built it up. We
:15:51. > :16:00.have got five or six now. We follow them up to see if players should be
:16:01. > :16:10.washed again. It is a different world now. In my the you did
:16:10. > :16:18.everything. I had to do the coaching as well. Although he has
:16:18. > :16:28.adapted to some modern ways, not all. It is not for the want of
:16:28. > :16:32.
:16:32. > :16:39.trying. The lad to try to get me in vault, but I prefer their pen and
:16:39. > :16:49.ink. Under par while he worked with Bob
:16:49. > :16:52.
:16:52. > :17:01.Stone Co. He lets me get on with things. If I said I was happy with
:17:01. > :17:07.someone he would accept that. was the chief scout when it Tony
:17:07. > :17:13.Mowbray signed for Middlesbrough in the 1980s. Since Tony Mowbray
:17:13. > :17:23.became a manager Jack has gone with them, from Hibernian, to Celtic, to
:17:23. > :17:29.
:17:29. > :17:39.Middlesbrough. It sets the standard attire football club. The people
:17:39. > :17:42.
:17:42. > :17:52.here are wonderful. Michael Parkinson! I get to the mickey-
:17:52. > :17:53.
:17:53. > :18:03.taking out at me from time to time. But I enjoy a joke. You know
:18:03. > :18:03.
:18:03. > :18:12.instantly whether you like somebody are not. If you can polish somebody
:18:12. > :18:18.up the are going to be a star. try to keep everything in my head.
:18:19. > :18:28.I continue to do it that way. seems to me is if he has a
:18:28. > :18:37.photographic memory. I will mention to him something about some player
:18:37. > :18:45.and he will say that he saw that player two years ago. He has a
:18:45. > :18:54.recollection at I rely upon. I am not standing over him watching him.
:18:54. > :19:04.I let him get on with his job. have worked with some good managers,
:19:04. > :19:05.
:19:05. > :19:13.but Tony Mowbray is number one. He has looked after me. And Tony
:19:13. > :19:17.Mowbray expects and Jack to find Mort footballing gems. I am sure
:19:17. > :19:27.there is somebody just round the corner that we're looking at at the
:19:27. > :19:27.
:19:27. > :19:31.moment. An incredible achievement. That transcends so many generations.
:19:31. > :19:38.He is a brilliant fellow. I know him. I going to the training ground
:19:38. > :19:46.to see him. He is as sharp as attack. He has masses of experience.
:19:46. > :19:51.He is the man. Do you remember who skidded you? I do. There was a guy
:19:51. > :19:57.called Kit Carson. It is a talent to pick up players when the a 12 or
:19:57. > :20:05.13 years old and see something in them and have the belief. He picked
:20:05. > :20:08.up Chris Sutton, Craig Bellamy. To be able to pick a player at 12 or
:20:08. > :20:18.13 years old and see the potential - there are very few people could
:20:18. > :20:18.
:20:18. > :20:25.come to that. Look at what his coach has done at Newcastle.
:20:25. > :20:28.Potentially a club can love or Danny by the decisions of this goat.
:20:28. > :20:35.Especially when you're spending that kind of money. It is not
:20:35. > :20:44.peanuts. That shows the value of having someone trusted who knows a
:20:44. > :20:52.player and can spot a player. game is now swede in statistics and
:20:52. > :21:01.technology. Is there a substitute for her eyes and ears? What is the
:21:01. > :21:10.difference between watching on up a video and going there. On Aberdeen
:21:10. > :21:20.or you are shown what they want to see. If you go where you see their
:21:20. > :21:26.
:21:26. > :21:30.attitude of the ball, their body language. At top scout is valuable.
:21:30. > :21:33.I thought Kevin Thomson was I thought Kevin Thomson was
:21:33. > :21:39.unfortunate to get sent off. There was no malice and that tackle. He
:21:39. > :21:43.got a yellow card. Middlesbrough were in control of the game in the
:21:43. > :21:51.first half. They had good chances in the first 15 minutes. There did
:21:51. > :22:00.not take them. That is a harsh yellow-card. You are a
:22:00. > :22:08.Middlesbrough at legend. You can see by the referee gives two
:22:08. > :22:15.bookings. It is slightly worrying for Middlesbrough. Three straight
:22:15. > :22:25.defeats. The need to bounce back quickly. The need a shake-up. With
:22:25. > :22:27.
:22:27. > :22:30.a young, small squat it is always very difficult. What is a
:22:30. > :22:37.difference there? Is it environment? Sometimes you go to a
:22:37. > :22:42.club and it does not look for you. You were always full of fire on
:22:42. > :22:48.your debut. It helps when you're playing against 10 men because you
:22:48. > :22:55.playing against 10 men because you have more space. Blue Square
:22:55. > :23:05.Premier side Gateshead are looking to achieve affected the in the
:23:05. > :23:38.
:23:38. > :23:48.sport of Footgolf. -- to get a Welcome to Gateshead. First to go
:23:48. > :24:17.
:24:17. > :24:27.Second on the tee is a fake tan! Well done! Craig Baxter! Mickey
:24:27. > :24:27.
:24:27. > :25:09.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:25:09. > :25:19.Martin Britain. The second half of Sally Gunnell!
:25:19. > :25:19.
:25:19. > :25:29.Next it is the best-looking man in the dressing room.
:25:29. > :25:33.
:25:33. > :25:43.Now it is the youngest flat in the changing-room. -- the youngest man.
:25:43. > :25:46.
:25:46. > :25:56.Well done! I was disappointed with plants to be honest! -- with the
:25:56. > :25:58.
:25:58. > :26:08.lads. We have an leader board. Bayfield to pep Carlisle. It is the
:26:08. > :26:10.
:26:10. > :26:16.same hole every week. Have a look same hole every week. Have a look
:26:16. > :26:26.at this. This is from the Yeovil game. He had a fight with his
:26:26. > :26:34.
:26:34. > :26:37.captain. That is incredible. There are one or two issues where centre-
:26:37. > :26:41.forwards come on and try to get the forwards come on and try to get the
:26:41. > :26:51.glory. During the game normally a manager says if you were on the
:26:51. > :26:55.
:26:55. > :27:02.pitch you take the penalty. It was the captain's responsibility.
:27:02. > :27:07.Another victory for Sunderland. What is realistic for them? If they
:27:08. > :27:13.can stay where they are now that will be brilliant. It will be a
:27:13. > :27:17.tough game for them at the weekend. He has got him going. They are
:27:17. > :27:22.playing with lot of confidence. Middlesbrough have a chance?
:27:22. > :27:30.would like to think so. But they have a few suspensions in midfield.
:27:30. > :27:35.It will be tough but they will give it a go. Newcastle's capitulation -
:27:35. > :27:39.agreed quote from the Fulham manager. He said in the first half
:27:39. > :27:45.it was a stroll in Brixton, in the second cap it was a holiday in
:27:45. > :27:49.Jamaica. He is referring to the fact that Newcastle conceded four.
:27:50. > :27:56.What do you do after a result like that? Newcastle were fine in the
:27:56. > :28:02.first half. Then there was a debate, was it inside, was that outside?
:28:02. > :28:12.That has not been like them this season so far. If it does not
:28:12. > :28:26.
:28:26. > :28:35.happen again next week you must If they get Demba Ba back and their