:00:25. > :00:27.Good afternoon and welcome to Match of the Day 2 Extra on BBC Two,
:00:28. > :00:30.Radio 5 Live and the BBC Sport website.
:00:31. > :00:34.Joining me, former England and Leeds defender Danny Mills, ex-Fulham,
:00:35. > :00:37.Middlesbrough and Chelsea goalkeeper Mark Schwarzer and Jason Burt,
:00:38. > :00:44.who is the Telegraph's chief football correspondent.
:00:45. > :00:53.As ever, we want you to get involved. Use the #bbcfootball to
:00:54. > :00:56.get involved. Use 85058 if you want to send us a text.
:00:57. > :00:58.Coming up, Tottenham close the gap on Chelsea to four points
:00:59. > :01:02.Antonio Conte's side play Jose Mourinho's Manchester United
:01:03. > :01:05.Ross Barkley was influential as Everton beat Burnley
:01:06. > :01:08.And we'll talk relegation and Sunderland after "Moyes out"
:01:09. > :01:16.chants during their 2-2 draw with West Ham.
:01:17. > :01:19.In The Sunday Times, a big picture of Harry Kane with the headline
:01:20. > :01:23."In with a shout", and quoting Mauricio Pochettino as saying "Heat
:01:24. > :01:26.is on the Blues now, no one wants to kill us".
:01:27. > :01:28.The Express - Ranieri's Hornet mission, saying Ranieri could take
:01:29. > :01:31.over from Walter Mazzarri at Watford.
:01:32. > :01:34.The Mail on Sunday, "Real's lifeline for exile Hart",
:01:35. > :01:42.saying, "Courtois or De Gea wanted by Real Madrid."
:01:43. > :01:52.It will depend which one is chosen. We will start with Courtois and De
:01:53. > :01:57.Gea's clubs, and focus on the big game at 4pm between Man United and
:01:58. > :02:06.Chelsea. Some team news coming in. It comes from the Belgian
:02:07. > :02:10.journalist, and you save this is likely to be correct. He is saying
:02:11. > :02:15.there will be no Thibaut Courtois for Chelsea because he has suffered
:02:16. > :02:20.an ankle injury. He is very well connected to all of the Chelsea
:02:21. > :02:26.players, so this should be correct. A big blow for Chelsea. Changing the
:02:27. > :02:30.back line at Chelsea will make a big difference today. It will be
:02:31. > :02:36.interesting to see whether David De Gea plays. Definitely some fuel to
:02:37. > :02:42.the fire that there is a bit of a rift between him and Mourinho. It
:02:43. > :02:46.would be extraordinary if neither De Gea or Courtois plays today. Does it
:02:47. > :02:52.make a difference to you as a defender if your keeper changes late
:02:53. > :02:56.in the day? Definitely. You know that if you make a mistake that nine
:02:57. > :03:02.times out of ten, he will bail you out. An extra bit of confidence. It
:03:03. > :03:06.is like playing with two centre halves. You know what he is going to
:03:07. > :03:11.do, where he comes with crosses, where he will throw the ball out. It
:03:12. > :03:17.becomes second nature, and the change can put a doubt in your mind.
:03:18. > :03:22.Those automatic things, like passing it back to him. You know where he
:03:23. > :03:27.will come for a cross and you go to the line. If the new keeper comes
:03:28. > :03:33.in, you don't know if he goes for crosses. It is those tiny things
:03:34. > :03:40.that can make a difference in a game of this magnitude. If it all comes
:03:41. > :03:46.true, it will be Joe Hart's first start of the season. But he is and
:03:47. > :03:51.an experienced keeper. The players will know him, they train with him
:03:52. > :03:55.every day. But there is a bit of a down sometimes. You have to ask
:03:56. > :04:00.yourself, does he come out, which foot do you need to play back to
:04:01. > :04:05.him? But the fact that the understanding is there between those
:04:06. > :04:10.players, the transition will be pretty seamless. In your experience,
:04:11. > :04:15.just on that keeper issue, during training during the week, if you
:04:16. > :04:19.have both keepers available, does the first team train with both
:04:20. > :04:25.keepers just in case something like this happens? It doesn't tend to
:04:26. > :04:32.happen too much. You do swap and change a bit through various drills,
:04:33. > :04:38.but ultimately, if you are working on 11 C 11, you generally stick with
:04:39. > :04:44.the number one who plays in those positions. What is interesting is
:04:45. > :04:49.the fact he has played all those Europa League games, Premier League
:04:50. > :04:53.games this season, so he will have trained enough times with his
:04:54. > :04:58.team-mates for them to fully understand his game. What is going
:04:59. > :05:02.on with Mourinho and David De Gea? And the bigger picture of Mourinho
:05:03. > :05:07.and his comment about his players at different times this season? Is
:05:08. > :05:12.interesting, because to the outside world, you would think it is an area
:05:13. > :05:17.that Manchester United do not have to worry about. But Mourinho likes
:05:18. > :05:21.to push his players, and he has identified certain things in De Gea
:05:22. > :05:27.that he doesn't like recently. Not quite sure what. I'm not sure if De
:05:28. > :05:33.Gea has reacted in the way Mourinho wanted him to. We have seen him
:05:34. > :05:36.across the whole team, criticising defenders and strikers. I think it
:05:37. > :05:42.is symptomatic of his own frustration. That is the biggest
:05:43. > :05:46.issue at United. They are not where he wants them to be and he hasn't
:05:47. > :05:51.had the season he wanted to have at United. They can still salvage it,
:05:52. > :05:57.but it hasn't worked out how he wanted. The key is that he has had
:05:58. > :06:04.words with De Gea and he hasn't reacted in the way he wanted him to.
:06:05. > :06:11.I know he has a big fan of Ron Mayo, because he is a big personality
:06:12. > :06:16.among the players. And he is admired the way he has been professional,
:06:17. > :06:22.gone about his business and tried to motivate the team, at a time when he
:06:23. > :06:28.hasn't played. Maybe De Gea wasn't easier decision than you might
:06:29. > :06:32.think. There is an argument with how he has criticised Luke Shaw. Luke
:06:33. > :06:40.Shaw has said it himself in an interview with sky. He said that he
:06:41. > :06:46.has admitted he may be wasn't as professional as he could have been.
:06:47. > :06:55.Is that the frustration of Mourinho with a lot of his players? Possibly.
:06:56. > :06:59.Luke Shaw isn't the first person to have been criticised, and it isn't
:07:00. > :07:03.the first time Luke Shaw has been criticised because of his
:07:04. > :07:09.professionalism. You have to give him credit. He has held his hand up
:07:10. > :07:15.and said, yes, he has to turn it around. You have to say, well done
:07:16. > :07:19.to Luke Shaw. On the other side, Mourinho will be looking at that
:07:20. > :07:26.saying, that is the response I want, that is the type of player I want to
:07:27. > :07:32.keep here. If you were in the United squad, which you want him to stop
:07:33. > :07:36.battering you in public? It is Mourinho's frustrations. He has been
:07:37. > :07:41.asking the players to do certain things. Maybe they haven't been as
:07:42. > :07:45.professional as they could have been. Steven Gerrard has been saying
:07:46. > :07:49.the same thing. Unbelievably talented players at the Liverpool
:07:50. > :07:53.Academy. Are they prepared to work the hardest, be the best, push
:07:54. > :07:59.themselves and sacrifice everything to be the ultimate players? Being
:08:00. > :08:05.good isn't enough any more. And that is what Mourinho wants from his
:08:06. > :08:10.team. Never criticised Ibrahimovic, because his attitude is phenomenal.
:08:11. > :08:15.And Gameiro is similar. If you work hard you will be forgiven for making
:08:16. > :08:22.mistakes. If you have that talent and it is a waste, that is a massive
:08:23. > :08:27.frustration. Ibrahimovic is his own man. He doesn't tend to go after
:08:28. > :08:34.people he has brought in. He didn't go after Pogba either. But he did
:08:35. > :08:40.criticised Ibrahimovic this week after the Europa League game. He
:08:41. > :08:46.does give them time, and he has them as his man, but he will dig them out
:08:47. > :08:49.if he knows he can take it. Ibrahimovic can clearly take it
:08:50. > :08:53.because he understands Mourinho. He has had a pop at him, and
:08:54. > :09:05.Ibrahimovic said that he wasn't good enough and could be better. The Mail
:09:06. > :09:11.on Sunday RC realising Mesut Ozil's book. The headline to do with
:09:12. > :09:16.Mourinho and their time at Real Madrid together, was that Mourinho
:09:17. > :09:21.had danced around the dressing room and imitated him saying that he
:09:22. > :09:27.mustn't get hurt and mustn't get dirty. He said to him, what do you
:09:28. > :09:32.want? To crawl into a nice warm shower and be on your own, or to
:09:33. > :09:40.show the fans what you are capable of? You know what, Mesut Ozil? Go
:09:41. > :09:47.away and cry. We do not need you. But that is inside the dressing
:09:48. > :09:52.room. That is OK. Of course. It is his frustration. He goes so far to
:09:53. > :09:58.criticise that group within those people, and if he doesn't get the
:09:59. > :10:02.response he wants, then he takes it outside to the public domain. And
:10:03. > :10:08.says, this is why I am disappointed and frustrated with him, and let's
:10:09. > :10:15.see the response. With Luke Shaw... Luke Shaw is the perfect example. He
:10:16. > :10:18.gave him a bit early on. He didn't see the response in training, and
:10:19. > :10:23.then he gave him a bit more responsibility. He still didn't
:10:24. > :10:29.respond, so he thought, where do I take it from here? I have a good,
:10:30. > :10:35.talented player who isn't doing the work rate and isn't performing in
:10:36. > :10:39.front of the young players. So it is his last resort. I remember when Joe
:10:40. > :10:46.Cole was at Chelsea and scored the winning goal. It was a great eulogy
:10:47. > :10:52.about his abilities, -- it wasn't a great eulogy. He said that he had
:10:53. > :10:58.played for himself. And Joe Cole was very upset about it. It is happening
:10:59. > :11:03.every week now. We didn't get that before. I feel the frustration. With
:11:04. > :11:09.teams he has been at before, he has always been the top of the league,
:11:10. > :11:14.or there and thereabouts. If he has been criticising people, it's
:11:15. > :11:20.been... At Chelsea, he was explaining things a bit more. Now he
:11:21. > :11:24.is lashing out a bit more. I think he has realised how big a job it is
:11:25. > :11:30.to change the mentality in the changing room. To create that
:11:31. > :11:34.winning mentality and pressurised environment, for young players, what
:11:35. > :11:41.the expectations are at a club like Manchester United, what Mourinho is
:11:42. > :11:44.used to at every club he has been at. Since Alex Ferguson has left,
:11:45. > :11:49.those senior players have all disappeared. Those senior players
:11:50. > :11:52.will have run that dressing room. He keeps talking about Ferguson's squad
:11:53. > :11:58.and how he wouldn't have let those players go, and that is the point.
:11:59. > :12:05.Players like Hernandez, Danny Welbeck... He wouldn't have let them
:12:06. > :12:12.go. Now Chelsea. Two Chelsea players nominated for the PFA Player of the
:12:13. > :12:18.Year, Hazard and Kante. Didier Drogba has been talking to Dan
:12:19. > :12:23.Walker. Whenever you interview a Chelsea player this season and you
:12:24. > :12:29.mention N'Golo Kante, a smile comes on his faith. If you had a
:12:30. > :12:35.nomination for Player of the Year, would you give it to someone like
:12:36. > :12:40.Hazard? I think Eden would have it, because he is my man. And I think
:12:41. > :12:45.Kante, because we don't speak a lot about these kind of players, so I
:12:46. > :12:53.think I would go for Kante Player of the Year, and Eden Hazard player of
:12:54. > :13:01.players. And the man you say is your man, Hazard. How good is he? How
:13:02. > :13:08.good could he be? Could he be on a level of Messi and Reynaldo? I think
:13:09. > :13:14.right now he is 75, 80% of his talent. That is the reality. I take
:13:15. > :13:18.it you want to see him stay at Chelsea? I think it is important for
:13:19. > :13:24.Chelsea to keep their best players if they want to win the Champions
:13:25. > :13:33.League. Didier Drogba with Dan Walker. Is that fair on Hazard to
:13:34. > :13:39.say he is only playing at 80%? He means 80% of his potential. He has
:13:40. > :13:43.an immense amount of his ability. When I was there, the one criticism
:13:44. > :13:50.was that I didn't feel he worked hard enough on the training field to
:13:51. > :13:56.bet that quality that he had. Particularly this season, he has
:13:57. > :14:00.been made almost to do it. The expectation, the law was set at the
:14:01. > :14:06.beginning when Conte came in and said, we are going to work hard and
:14:07. > :14:10.get fitter. One person who has benefited immensely from that is
:14:11. > :14:14.Hazard. When you talk about working harder, are you talking about
:14:15. > :14:18.putting extra time in on the training field practising your
:14:19. > :14:27.skills? Bringing it back to tracking back and running? All of the above.
:14:28. > :14:31.When I was there, the time in training you think, how can that guy
:14:32. > :14:37.be like this in training, when he was way below par, and then produce
:14:38. > :14:41.that in a game? I remember saying to him on one occasion, you need to
:14:42. > :14:48.perform like that every week? Why can't you do it every week? The
:14:49. > :14:53.potential is enormous. He went, one week I perform well, one week I
:14:54. > :15:02.don't. I have interviewed him, and he is quite laid back. He isn't
:15:03. > :15:06.somebody who gives the impression he tried himself in that way. He enjoy
:15:07. > :15:10.his his ability and enjoys playing football. I can understand why that
:15:11. > :15:15.would be annoying for his team-mates. I think his attitude has
:15:16. > :15:20.definitely changed. He is fit as well. He had a hip problem all last
:15:21. > :15:26.season which caused an issue for him. Chelsea rested him a lot, and
:15:27. > :15:31.he has slightly changed position as well. He's not working in the same
:15:32. > :15:34.way he was under Mourinho. I think he felt he was driven into the
:15:35. > :15:44.ground a bit. The expectation for him to work
:15:45. > :15:48.harder across the board, for everybody to be fitter, and I have
:15:49. > :15:51.watched him a lot this season and he has tracked back. He has done it
:15:52. > :15:57.without somebody on the sidelines demanding it. We know how hard
:15:58. > :16:02.Ronaldo has worked on his game. We see how hard Messi works on his
:16:03. > :16:06.game, Suarez, Andres Iniesta, those players. When you read their books,
:16:07. > :16:11.they give everything in every session, no matter what. Their drive
:16:12. > :16:16.is ultimately to be the best. Does Eden Hazard have that drive? Maybe
:16:17. > :16:25.he's starting to get it. He has to do it everyday. You can't have two
:16:26. > :16:29.or three days. I think Conte needs credit for how he has dealt with
:16:30. > :16:33.him. He has been able to get that out of Hazard without Hazard
:16:34. > :16:37.realising he is doing it until afterwards. He has drilled him
:16:38. > :16:42.knowing that he's going to do this work without him even realising it.
:16:43. > :16:46.Because he is so fit, it will not affect him going forward. Your texts
:16:47. > :16:51.and tweets are coming in. Somebody says it should be an easy win, but
:16:52. > :16:55.the else says Manchester United don't have the bottle. Paul in
:16:56. > :16:58.Swansea says Spurs are the best side in the country and they are playing
:16:59. > :17:03.wonderful football. We will talk about Spurs' win over Bournemouth
:17:04. > :17:07.and how they have cut the gap to four points in a moment, but the
:17:08. > :17:11.first game this afternoon is West Brom against Liverpool, and had
:17:12. > :17:14.Murphy will be at the Hawthorns. Tony Pulis has an excellent record
:17:15. > :17:18.in home games against Liverpool and he will be looking for a decent
:17:19. > :17:22.performance today, because West Brom haven't scored first in five of the
:17:23. > :17:27.last six league games. There is a feeling they have gone off the boil.
:17:28. > :17:30.Tony Pulis bridles at this, and he wants to ensure they get their best
:17:31. > :17:34.ever tally of Premier League points, they are five behind it. Today,
:17:35. > :17:40.Jacob and brands come in. Robson Khan becomes an upfront. Liverpool,
:17:41. > :17:46.Roberto Firmino and Philippe Coutinho are both feet -- are both
:17:47. > :17:51.fit and will start. So does Lucas. One clean sheet in 13 games for
:17:52. > :17:55.Jurgen Klopp and he is concerned about the heavy artillery that West
:17:56. > :18:00.Brom offer at set pieces. Pact will keep everybody on five live
:18:01. > :18:05.up-to-date with that game throughout the afternoon, and then there is
:18:06. > :18:10.coverage of Manchester United- Chelsea at 4pm. Tony Pulis said,
:18:11. > :18:13.head of this game, we are in an unbelievable position at West Brom,
:18:14. > :18:18.whether we finish in the top ten or not, we are at the top of our group.
:18:19. > :18:23.We can't do better. If people think we can be better year after year,
:18:24. > :18:26.let's get a billionaire in so I can spend the money. Is that an attempt
:18:27. > :18:33.to try and get more money to spend this summer or is it realistic, or a
:18:34. > :18:37.bit depressing? I think it's realistic. I feel a bit sorry for
:18:38. > :18:44.Tony Pulis at times. West Brom had a very low budget of players' wages,
:18:45. > :18:48.transfer fees. Look where he has got them? Unbelievable, to be eight in
:18:49. > :18:52.the table at the moment. Sensational, what he's done, but he
:18:53. > :18:55.still gets criticised for the way they play. If they played great
:18:56. > :18:59.football and got relegated, he'd been criticised for that. We know
:19:00. > :19:04.what he does, what can he do? They are never going to have the biggest
:19:05. > :19:06.budget and they are punching so far above their weight. It's almost
:19:07. > :19:13.ridiculous. I think he deserves a lot of credit. His way of playing
:19:14. > :19:16.isn't everybody's cup of tea but it is winning football, and it's
:19:17. > :19:21.guaranteed he will keep them in the Premier League this season, next
:19:22. > :19:24.season. When I said, do you find it depressing, what I meant is that
:19:25. > :19:28.they are well coached, well drilled, they have played well at times this
:19:29. > :19:32.season, and yet they are eighth in the Premier League, that's their
:19:33. > :19:39.limit, which isn't what you go into football bowl. No, but Leicester...
:19:40. > :19:45.It is out there. Every club is in the country thinking, OK, but
:19:46. > :19:49.Leicester City did that. It will probably not happen again for a long
:19:50. > :19:52.time. I think that the big clubs will rearm. West Brom are not going
:19:53. > :19:57.to win the Premier League, for a while! Iron I think that's a problem
:19:58. > :20:02.for a lot of managers. What Leicester did. Oglesby clubs think
:20:03. > :20:09.all of that argument is correct before, oh, but Leicester. With West
:20:10. > :20:15.Brom, you have to look at cup competitions. They haven't done well
:20:16. > :20:19.in the cup competitions. A 50 points total is important, trying to get
:20:20. > :20:24.into one of the European places. They have hit a ceiling in terms of
:20:25. > :20:31.winning the league, and cup competitions is what they need look
:20:32. > :20:34.at. He probably has a squad of 15, 16 players, nothing beyond that.
:20:35. > :20:41.When you look at the clubs above that, you know, they have squads of
:20:42. > :20:45.20, 25 quality players and multi-million pound signings. He has
:20:46. > :20:50.brought some young players in. They have got an awful lot more TV money.
:20:51. > :20:54.Big clubs will buy in better players, but you can buy smartly.
:20:55. > :20:58.Mourinho a few years ago did say that every club can buy players who
:20:59. > :21:02.could play for Chelsea now. You couldn't buy a whole team, but you
:21:03. > :21:07.could buy one or two, and on their day they could hurt everybody else.
:21:08. > :21:10.At the beginning of the season, he didn't have the money at his
:21:11. > :21:15.disposal, he wasn't given the money to bring players in. A lot was said
:21:16. > :21:18.about it, a lot of frustration from the Hawthorns from the fans, they
:21:19. > :21:23.wore on his back. So he really dealt with that very well. The team dealt
:21:24. > :21:32.with that well and they turned things around dramatically. He
:21:33. > :21:35.mentioned again at... There was a bit of a tug-of-war going on. But
:21:36. > :21:40.now he really seems to have full control and he has his team playing
:21:41. > :21:46.well. Let's move on to Spurs. You were at White Hart Lane yesterday.
:21:47. > :21:49.How impressed were you with Spurs? Very impressed. Everywhere you look
:21:50. > :21:55.in that team, you are impressed with the way that they play. I think the
:21:56. > :21:59.approach to the game... They could have easily gone into that game
:22:00. > :22:02.thinking, we are going to win at home. The only criticism new half of
:22:03. > :22:07.yesterday is that they were probably not as clinical with their finishing
:22:08. > :22:14.as they would have liked. -- the only criticism you would have. They
:22:15. > :22:19.dealt with everything. I thought Bournemouth were very poor. They set
:22:20. > :22:24.up the wrong way as well and Tottenham just looked at the moment,
:22:25. > :22:29.seven wins in a row now, and they are on top form. Matt sent us a text
:22:30. > :22:33.or a tweet, Danny Mills, and says that the good thing about Spurs is
:22:34. > :22:37.they have a young team. It's only a matter of time before they dominate
:22:38. > :22:42.the league. That's difficult. They have an exceptional squad of 13
:22:43. > :22:49.players. Beyond that, it's a bit light. The difficulty is going to be
:22:50. > :22:53.bringing three or four players in to strengthen without upsetting
:22:54. > :23:00.everybody else. Ultimately, they need back-up for Harry Kane at some
:23:01. > :23:04.point if they are going to compete. And Janssen isn't that? Not that
:23:05. > :23:12.I've seen. It's only his first season. You busy last player he was
:23:13. > :23:16.a good player. -- last season. They need proper back-up for Harry Kane.
:23:17. > :23:23.But if you bring in a top name, are they happy to sit on the bench?
:23:24. > :23:28.Centre-backs, those areas... As back-up? Yeah, a delicate balance of
:23:29. > :23:32.bringing in quality who is not needing to play every week. They
:23:33. > :23:35.have to do that if they are going to challenge for the Premier League,
:23:36. > :23:40.Champions League and domestic cups. I'd agree, because the first 11 at
:23:41. > :23:42.Tottenham is strong as anything. Personally, I think they are
:23:43. > :23:49.stronger than Chelsea. Beyond that, the Gulf is great. You look at the
:23:50. > :23:54.squad and you think, OK, they need to buy more players, but how do you
:23:55. > :23:58.improve the 11? I'm not sure how you do that. And then you have a manager
:23:59. > :24:03.who is moulding this team together, and they are also sort of... It's
:24:04. > :24:07.almost like a religious cult with him. They are so into playing for
:24:08. > :24:11.Pochettino. I travel around Europe a lot and for the clubs, all the big
:24:12. > :24:16.clubs ask me about Pochettino. They say, what do you think of him? They
:24:17. > :24:20.are all looking at him and seeing how far they can take Tottenham, how
:24:21. > :24:25.long he wants to stay with them. Everybody is genuinely interested to
:24:26. > :24:29.see how far he goes. That is the biggest challenge for Spurs in the
:24:30. > :24:32.near future, even as soon as the summer. Firstly, keeping hold of
:24:33. > :24:36.some of these players and, second, the manager. They've got to deal
:24:37. > :24:40.with the fact that they are building a new stadium which will cost them a
:24:41. > :24:46.lot. How much money will they have to invest in the squad? They are in
:24:47. > :24:48.a precarious situation for the in one sense, unbelievably exciting
:24:49. > :24:53.because of how good the team is, but can they keep hold of it and win
:24:54. > :24:57.something? Am I being naive when I say, why would you leave Spurs at
:24:58. > :25:02.the moment, in the sense of, they are a good, young team with a great
:25:03. > :25:08.manager, a new stadium coming, they obviously all get on and they play
:25:09. > :25:12.well. Why would you leave? I think they need some tweaks. They've got
:25:13. > :25:17.to be careful not to turn into Arsenal and become a top four team
:25:18. > :25:20.for the next ten, 15 years, whatever it may be. They have to have the
:25:21. > :25:30.next level and really challenge, or start winning. What do they start
:25:31. > :25:34.with the FA Cup? You've got to invest in that. That stadium will be
:25:35. > :25:38.a huge burden. We saw what happened Arsenal over the years. How much
:25:39. > :25:42.money will they have to go out and invest? They are not the biggest
:25:43. > :25:51.players in the world. Whether it is right or wrong, players will turn to
:25:52. > :25:54.money at some stage. Over time, moving to a bigger stadium, the pay
:25:55. > :25:59.aspect will change. They will have more revenue coming in and there
:26:00. > :26:04.will be huge expectations. Several of those players might offered
:26:05. > :26:07.double money next year. They have to try and manage the situation. It's
:26:08. > :26:13.going to be an interesting time for Spurs. In a lot of ways, really
:26:14. > :26:16.exciting for the fans but, on the other hand, you'd be concerned about
:26:17. > :26:22.keeping the players. And Pochettino is a fabulous contrast we were in
:26:23. > :26:25.Brazil, and give him two or three transfer windows, and he would have
:26:26. > :26:38.topped up there challenging. He was right. On the FA Cup bit...? In the
:26:39. > :26:41.semifinal next Saturday, they are playing Chelsea. If Chelsea lose
:26:42. > :26:45.today and it is four points, they beat Chelsea next Saturday, what
:26:46. > :26:50.then happens? It's psychologically interesting. I think they know they
:26:51. > :26:55.have to win a trophy, the players know, the manager knows. He knows
:26:56. > :26:58.all the praise around him, how people read him, but he knows that
:26:59. > :27:03.people say, you haven't won a trophy. -- how people rates him. It
:27:04. > :27:11.becomes important for the manager himself. That is why I mention
:27:12. > :27:14.Arsenal. It's important for fans to win trophies and challenge, but how
:27:15. > :27:23.important is that to the board? I think it's important. They are very
:27:24. > :27:29.early in finishing in the top four cycle. It's going to be different
:27:30. > :27:32.Arsenal. If they don't gamble when they've got a great chance, a great
:27:33. > :27:36.team of players, a great young side, if they don't gamble and add to
:27:37. > :27:41.that, those players will start to drift away. If you were a betting
:27:42. > :27:46.man, I'd say it was a steady bet. The fact that they are such good
:27:47. > :27:51.quality players... The biggest challenge they have got is to keep
:27:52. > :27:54.hold of those players. If they don't win something sooner rather than
:27:55. > :27:59.later, that will get more difficult. When you say you go around Europe
:28:00. > :28:09.and clubs are asking about it... Genuinely. He has ruled himself out
:28:10. > :28:14.of both Arsenal and Barcelona. So which club... Should I say? I'm not
:28:15. > :28:18.saying the once you have spoken to, but which do you think that Spurs
:28:19. > :28:24.fans should be most worried about at the top of European football? We are
:28:25. > :28:30.not too far from one here, obviously. Manchester United have
:28:31. > :28:36.obviously thought about him. They are very happy with Jose Mourinho,
:28:37. > :28:39.they say. It is a better calibre of clubs to the top clubs. If he
:28:40. > :28:55.couldn't do us alone in the derailment rate. Absolutely. He
:28:56. > :28:57.clearly is a very good... It's been interesting to me how often people
:28:58. > :29:04.ask me about him in the Premier League. Marco Silva is coming
:29:05. > :29:09.through at Hull. Everybody is talking about him, but early days.
:29:10. > :29:15.There is a touch of Pochettino about him. People talk about those two.
:29:16. > :29:19.Obviously, Conte, clearly, he has done so well, but those two. But
:29:20. > :29:23.people want to talk about Pochettino. Let me ask you one more
:29:24. > :29:26.thing, the quote from this week, I think there was a bad period at the
:29:27. > :29:32.end of last season when we spent is not fighting Leicester, Chelsea,
:29:33. > :29:37.West Brom and the media. Now we spend time and energy fighting in
:29:38. > :29:40.the right way. The world was trying to help Leicester. The team at all
:29:41. > :29:47.the world tried to kill was Tottenham. Does he have a point?
:29:48. > :29:50.Definitely. Even though I was at Leicester, I sat back and thought,
:29:51. > :29:54.people shouldn't be saying that. Tony Pulis shouldn't have said that
:29:55. > :29:59.before the game, nor should Eden Hazard. That wasn't right. I felt
:30:00. > :30:03.sorry for him. I was delighted that Leicester won the league, but to be
:30:04. > :30:07.in his shoes, and everybody seemed to be against him. It must have
:30:08. > :30:11.tough for him. Rod John says that Bournemouth are very poor run back
:30:12. > :30:17.from anointing diverse as champions elect. -- are very poor at the
:30:18. > :30:26.moment so let's roll back. Kieran says, Mourinho telling Mesut Ozil to
:30:27. > :30:28.go and cry is hilarious. All that Mourinho does is go and cry if he
:30:29. > :30:40.doesn't win. Jack Wilshere's loan move to Ballmer
:30:41. > :30:49.has just created more issues. Do you agree with that? He has great
:30:50. > :30:54.potential. At some point he's got to deliver. Four or five years ago we
:30:55. > :31:00.were pinning England hopes on him. That is as much our fault as his. It
:31:01. > :31:05.is, but he has so much talent. He has gone to a site that has
:31:06. > :31:10.struggled all season and he hasn't shone. Made a bit of a mistake
:31:11. > :31:14.yesterday. Tottenham fans were delighted at that. He hasn't gone
:31:15. > :31:22.there and really stood out. He hasn't put a mark of their saying
:31:23. > :31:25.actually, I have this experience and ability and I am better than you. I
:31:26. > :31:29.don't know him personally or how he trains, and whether that comes down
:31:30. > :31:34.to the amount of effort he puts into training. I think you are right. He
:31:35. > :31:38.went to Bournemouth because they were going to create the right
:31:39. > :31:43.environment for him, and opportunities abroad, and would give
:31:44. > :31:47.him the right platform. And he just hasn't taken that opportunity. He
:31:48. > :31:53.has had 20 starts and minimal impact. It sounds brutal at times,
:31:54. > :32:00.but sometimes you have to say these things. The player hasn't delivered.
:32:01. > :32:04.22 league starts, no goals for Jack Wilshere this season. Sunderland
:32:05. > :32:09.moved a step closer to relegation yesterday with a draw to West Ham.
:32:10. > :32:13.They are nine points from safety with six games left to play.
:32:14. > :32:19.Interesting comments afterwards from Fabio Borini, who got the late
:32:20. > :32:25.equaliser. We are not being at our level, we are not a united group
:32:26. > :32:29.like previous seasons, which has probably been the problem. Positive
:32:30. > :32:34.results like today and performances can bring the strength to the group
:32:35. > :32:41.again and get everyone together. In our situation, we can only get
:32:42. > :32:48.together, not individually. Why do you think that togetherness has been
:32:49. > :32:54.missing this season? A little bit of problems within the dressing room,
:32:55. > :32:59.but that is for us to deal with. The results, the injuries, that is part
:33:00. > :33:07.of being united and keep believing. Listening to that on sports reports
:33:08. > :33:13.yesterday, I wrote down, not as united as before. As we all watched
:33:14. > :33:19.that then, we looked at each other in a slightly, wow, players are not
:33:20. > :33:24.often that honest. They aren't. We have been in a similar situation
:33:25. > :33:28.before as players. We know how tough it is down the bottom, and people
:33:29. > :33:34.turn on each other when you do not have a strong core of players in the
:33:35. > :33:40.dressing room, and also, not everyone is backing the manager. If
:33:41. > :33:45.the core of players do not back the manager, that can affect the
:33:46. > :33:49.dressing room. Sounds like there's a lot of finger-pointing going on in
:33:50. > :33:54.the dressing room. They are thinking, hang on, we are going
:33:55. > :33:59.down. You don't know this, but behind your head, there is a picture
:34:00. > :34:07.of David Moyes pointing! You didn't know that was there! That is the
:34:08. > :34:12.best timing ever! Accidental! I think that is exactly what it is.
:34:13. > :34:17.People will be saying, hang on, we are going down. Where is my future
:34:18. > :34:21.next season? They will not be that bothered about the cause of
:34:22. > :34:26.Sunderland. People may say that's wrong, but it is a fact. Players
:34:27. > :34:30.like Defoe might be thinking, where will I play next season? I do not
:34:31. > :34:36.want to play in the Championship. Other players will be the same, and
:34:37. > :34:43.they will try to apportion blame to everybody else, because that is what
:34:44. > :34:46.footballers do. In the Groundhog Day of Sunderland's season, they
:34:47. > :34:50.normally struggle, and then they bring someone in who unifies them,
:34:51. > :34:59.save them, and disappears the following season. They were going to
:35:00. > :35:04.get caught out eventually. They have been struggling. They have invested
:35:05. > :35:08.this season. The manager has struggled. Players like Borini has
:35:09. > :35:18.hardly killed himself this season. He has been pretty poor. They went
:35:19. > :35:24.on a team bonding exercise to York a few weeks ago. And redundancies as
:35:25. > :35:32.well. After Jermain Defoe, the next top scorer has got three. Van
:35:33. > :35:38.Aanholt? They are struggling. Players like Khazri haven't been
:35:39. > :35:43.playing that much this season. That is the manager's fault. May be
:35:44. > :35:49.called players last season have felt a bit pushed out. There seems to be
:35:50. > :35:57.some disquiet around the fans. That came out yesterday. It absolutely.
:35:58. > :36:03.When he came into his technical area, there were chants of "Moyes
:36:04. > :36:10.out". Rory says, he must go, even if we do have a player miracle. He has
:36:11. > :36:15.no idea about tactics. It seems that Khazri's goal gave the Sunderland
:36:16. > :36:20.fans some ammunition to have a go at David Moyes. Quite possibly. The
:36:21. > :36:26.frustration in Sunderland has been there for a few years, and it has
:36:27. > :36:31.now boiled over. It looks like there is no hope for Sunderland to stay in
:36:32. > :36:35.the Premier League. Potentially, we said fair that this was a good thing
:36:36. > :36:41.for Sunderland that they can sort this out. But they will have to
:36:42. > :36:45.spend to get themselves out. Newcastle are second in the
:36:46. > :36:51.Championship, and they have spent a lot of money. There is a danger they
:36:52. > :36:58.could fall through again, because a lot of those players will disappear.
:36:59. > :37:03.You have to get someone who is prepared to take the club on. There
:37:04. > :37:10.will be players who want out. There are players in the changing room.
:37:11. > :37:14.David Moyes came into the club and instantly said, we are fighting
:37:15. > :37:22.relegation. And he was right to. You don't want to hear that. We talk
:37:23. > :37:28.about honesty. After two games of the season, it's the wrong time to
:37:29. > :37:33.talk about it. Possibly. But looking at the quality they had, he felt it
:37:34. > :37:38.wasn't good. And maybe the frustration that he wasn't getting
:37:39. > :37:43.players in. He did get some in, but possibly not his first choices. But
:37:44. > :37:47.how many managers get their first choices? When you look at the
:37:48. > :37:53.signings he made, they were almost desperation signings. There were a
:37:54. > :38:01.lot of excuses around Sunderland. The fans have wooed other managers
:38:02. > :38:05.here. Nobody seems to take... You would want somebody to take
:38:06. > :38:12.responsibility, as a fan of that club. The owner basically wants to
:38:13. > :38:17.sell the club. He wants to sell the club, but if you go into the
:38:18. > :38:21.Championship, it is harder to sell. Especially at the price you want. So
:38:22. > :38:27.Schwarzer is going to have to go again and then try to sell it. That
:38:28. > :38:31.comes from the top. The bowler clearly doesn't want to be there.
:38:32. > :38:37.That permeates all the way through the club. David says, Moyes is a
:38:38. > :38:45.clueless manager. I don't see him being able to bring us back up.
:38:46. > :38:54.85058, #bbcfootball to get in touch with us. Jason Burt in the studio
:38:55. > :39:00.with me. Swansea and Hull, people saying that the final relegation
:39:01. > :39:07.spot will be between those two. Hull beaten at Stoke, and Swansea lost at
:39:08. > :39:11.Watford. I have been asked over the last 19 games, is this a must win
:39:12. > :39:16.game? I have said no, because there's a lot of games to go. But
:39:17. > :39:22.this next game is a must win for us. We are playing Stoke at home. The
:39:23. > :39:27.biggest gain the club has had for years. Are the players up for it?
:39:28. > :39:32.The first thing is to get over the disappointment of this, and then for
:39:33. > :39:38.really big games of training. They know the magnitude of the Stoke
:39:39. > :39:43.game. Players are not daft. They will know how big the Stoke game is.
:39:44. > :39:48.But when the manager comes out and says, the biggest game in years,
:39:49. > :39:52.does that increase the pressure? Not really, because they know the
:39:53. > :39:56.magnitude of the game and the situation. Swansea have been there
:39:57. > :40:00.or thereabouts for the majority of this season, but it is coming down
:40:01. > :40:06.to the nitty-gritty end of the season, when you are running out of
:40:07. > :40:10.games. Paul Clement said he was asked the same question ten games
:40:11. > :40:18.ago, but now they are running out of games, and they have to start
:40:19. > :40:25.winning. There's always one team that has a ridiculous... They will
:40:26. > :40:31.have to score. They will. They have to games in hand. Whole lost
:40:32. > :40:36.yesterday. Hull and Swansea have both got Sunderland to play, which
:40:37. > :40:43.could be pivotal. It is going to be very tight, but two of those three
:40:44. > :40:46.will go down. Above that, Bournemouth are fine, because not
:40:47. > :40:51.all of them are going to get enough points to get out of it. Bournemouth
:40:52. > :40:57.will pick up a couple. It is so tight down there. Swansea were not
:40:58. > :41:02.disastrous yesterday. They had a go. On another day, Sigurdsson could
:41:03. > :41:07.have scored three or four. They are a similar sort of club. If they go
:41:08. > :41:12.down, Sigurdsson will go, Llorente will go... They will lose a lot of
:41:13. > :41:20.top players. Home games are big for them. That is the difference between
:41:21. > :41:26.the two clubs. Hull are going into home games with confidence, but
:41:27. > :41:32.Swansea are going into all games... One thing that Marco Silva has done
:41:33. > :41:38.at Hull, he is trying to win games. Most of the games he has gone at, he
:41:39. > :41:42.has tried to win them. The last three home games, or three of them,
:41:43. > :41:48.they have come from behind as well, which is a good sign. Losing at
:41:49. > :41:54.Middlesbrough, and they came from behind. I was surprised they lost so
:41:55. > :41:59.badly yesterday. That gives them a bit more of an edge than Swansea. I
:42:00. > :42:03.think Swansea have had the lift under Paul Clement. I think they
:42:04. > :42:09.started to believe they were safe. And Llorente's injury, who did not
:42:10. > :42:13.look fit when he came back yesterday. I think Hull have a few
:42:14. > :42:21.more options. I think they will probably do it. They have bought
:42:22. > :42:26.options, and is there less expectation on Hull? You look at the
:42:27. > :42:33.start of the season, they have a lot of first-team players. Keep the club
:42:34. > :42:40.or sell the club as well. That seems to have been put to one side. Marco
:42:41. > :42:44.Silva has done a great job. They seem to be getting better. The
:42:45. > :42:50.results didn't go well yesterday, but they are better at home week in,
:42:51. > :42:55.week out. Out of all the clubs, I think they have the best opportunity
:42:56. > :43:01.to stay up. There is something that always says to me, every season,
:43:02. > :43:06.someone goes on the run from nowhere and wins. It could be any of them.
:43:07. > :43:14.You just don't know. It happens for no rhyme or reason. It could easily
:43:15. > :43:19.be Hull. I think Bournemouth are safe. I don't think they can get
:43:20. > :43:24.dragged into it at the moment. There is always a team that comes up with
:43:25. > :43:35.two or three results. Six points will probably seek Hull safe. Boro
:43:36. > :43:40.have to games in hand. Suddenly it is very congested again, and they
:43:41. > :43:44.have a bit of confidence. One goal can make a big difference.
:43:45. > :43:49.Middlesbrough need to start winning somewhere. They haven't been winning
:43:50. > :43:54.home or away. It is Middlesbrough against Arsenal on Monday night,
:43:55. > :44:01.which you will be able to hear on 5 Live. Thank you Danny, Mark and
:44:02. > :44:04.Jason. Manchester United against Chelsea later. Goodbye.