:00:30. > :00:33.Good afternoon, welcome to Match of the Day 2 Extra on BBC Two,
:00:34. > :00:38.Joining me today - Everton midfielder
:00:39. > :00:41.Leon Osman; John Cross, the chief football writer
:00:42. > :00:47.at the Daily Mirror and former Huddersfield boss Chris Powell.
:00:48. > :00:52.Use the hashtag #bbcfootball on social media, or text 85058
:00:53. > :01:02.On the following subjects, with Leicester back on top of the Premier
:01:03. > :01:06.League despite only drawing with bottom club Aston Villa. Manchester
:01:07. > :01:09.City hot on their heels after beating Crystal Palace. Newcastle
:01:10. > :01:13.out of the bottom three thanks to new signing Jonjo Shelvey. And there
:01:14. > :01:16.was a controversial finale at Stamford Bridge as Chelsea drew with
:01:17. > :01:20.Everton. Roberto Martinez features alongside
:01:21. > :01:23.Stuart Broad on most of the back 'Robbed' say the Sunday Mirror
:01:24. > :01:26.with Martinez branding Mike Jones as "diabolical" for allowing
:01:27. > :01:29.John Terry's 98th minute equaliser - you can also see Arsene Wenger
:01:30. > :01:32.claiming he gets more abuse off The Independent on Sunday say that
:01:33. > :01:36.David De Gea is still a target for Real Madrid despite
:01:37. > :01:38.their transfer ban. And the Sun on Sunday suggest
:01:39. > :01:40.that Mourinho thinks that the Manchester United job
:01:41. > :01:53.is his for the taking. We are going to start with Everton's
:01:54. > :01:58.draw at Chelsea, which Leon Osman cannot wait to talk about. Before we
:01:59. > :01:58.hear from him let's hear from both managers starting with Roberto
:01:59. > :02:04.Martinez. What is your reaction to the end of
:02:05. > :02:08.that game? It is anger, pure anger, you cannot
:02:09. > :02:11.describe it in any other way, there are two macro aspects, one is the
:02:12. > :02:15.performance we had, and we were part of an exciting game of football
:02:16. > :02:23.between two teams that produced an incredible performance, once we got
:02:24. > :02:26.the 2-goal lead it became a little bit too open, but Chelsea have the
:02:27. > :02:31.quality to get back into the game. Sometimes it's in your favour and
:02:32. > :02:37.other times it is damaging. But to be honest it was offside because
:02:38. > :02:42.Oscar touched the ball and although John did it technically perfect it
:02:43. > :02:47.was offside, to be honest. Is not down to answer of opinion, or
:02:48. > :02:51.a decision from referees, it's a clear-cut offside that should have
:02:52. > :02:58.been spotted and then to make it even worse is it was 50 seconds well
:02:59. > :03:03.over the time. It's just something that is not good enough. We played
:03:04. > :03:06.on Wednesday, the demands on the players are huge. When you are
:03:07. > :03:10.producing levels of performances that go accordingly with being the
:03:11. > :03:12.best league in world football, trouble breathing referee today and
:03:13. > :03:17.the structure of Howard the scoreline ended up is unacceptable
:03:18. > :03:20.and is very hurtful for everyone connected to our football club.
:03:21. > :03:26.Of all the days to be booked to do this show, Leon Osman.
:03:27. > :03:29.Of all the days to be booked to do this show, Leon Let's stay away from
:03:30. > :03:33.the controversial end at the moment. The mood on the way home when you
:03:34. > :03:36.were on the train was what? Disappointment, to have gone to
:03:37. > :03:40.Stamford Bridge and read the game twice, and to come away with a draw
:03:41. > :03:44.through no fault of our own really, was upsetting. It was a
:03:45. > :03:47.disappointing journey was upsetting. It was a
:03:48. > :03:51.What positives can you take from it? I think the way we played and the
:03:52. > :03:55.way we took it to Chelsea and we went toe to toe with them and we
:03:56. > :04:01.were deservedly in front on more than one occasion. So, the way we
:04:02. > :04:05.played in the game is certainly a positive.
:04:06. > :04:09.Chris Powell, when you see another manager in a post match interview
:04:10. > :04:12.like that, Roberto Martinez first of all, there was obviously a lot of
:04:13. > :04:17.anger. Do you think part of the anger was at letting the lead slip
:04:18. > :04:21.twice being 2-0 up and then 3-2 up? We will come onto the ending in a
:04:22. > :04:25.minute but part of the anger must have been at his own team, maybe?
:04:26. > :04:30.A touch of it, of course club because they were in such a good
:04:31. > :04:36.position away from home at last season's champions. I'm sure at 2-0
:04:37. > :04:41.up he is thinking we are in a great position, second-half, maybe only
:04:42. > :04:45.half an hour to go, but then Chelsea got two in two minutes. And then all
:04:46. > :04:49.of a sudden the emotions change. Are we going to hang on? Are Chelsea
:04:50. > :04:54.going to make a great comeback? Then they scored in the 90th minute, and
:04:55. > :04:58.every manager would feel it is kind to be their day. At 98 minutes, when
:04:59. > :05:03.I spoke to Leon Osman off air, he said it was seven or eight minutes
:05:04. > :05:05.you feel that the anger shifted to the referee and the assistant
:05:06. > :05:09.referee. And yet, when we look at the amount
:05:10. > :05:18.of time added on its always a minimum of whatever number goes on
:05:19. > :05:23.that board. Funes Mori, at gone into the Everton fans to celebrate for a
:05:24. > :05:27.minute or so, John Cross. I'm just putting the other view. I think the
:05:28. > :05:32.referee allowed it to be known that he added on the extra minute, if you
:05:33. > :05:36.like, for the celebration, to take in the celebration and I think that
:05:37. > :05:40.is probably fair. What happens when you do get the stoppage during the
:05:41. > :05:45.stoppage time you have to add on something. Where I feel sorry for
:05:46. > :05:49.Roberto Martinez and where I think Everton have been let down is it is
:05:50. > :05:53.a clear offside, it's not marginal, it's very clear and I do think the
:05:54. > :05:58.officials have really let Everton down. It is no consolation to Leon
:05:59. > :06:03.Osman that they are great to watch, terrific to watch and frankly you
:06:04. > :06:06.need better officialdom than that. Do you think some of his anger
:06:07. > :06:11.afterwards was aimed at your failure to hold onto another lead?
:06:12. > :06:15.Possibly, but to have gone two goals up and to have been pegged back by
:06:16. > :06:19.Chelsea the way we were, but then we found a bit extra away at Stamford
:06:20. > :06:25.Bridge, we found the extra goal which should have turned out to be
:06:26. > :06:28.the winning goal. To then lose it by unofficial's mistake is
:06:29. > :06:33.disappointing that Mac and official's mistake. When you score a
:06:34. > :06:37.goal through Funes Mori that you think is the winner away you are
:06:38. > :06:42.going to go and some great with your fans as we did.
:06:43. > :06:47.This has happened before, without making you feel even worse, it
:06:48. > :06:50.happened before at Bournemouth this season as well.
:06:51. > :06:55.It did and we were punished on that occasion as well. But yesterday, I'd
:06:56. > :06:59.be interested to know after John Terry scored, he went and submitted
:07:00. > :07:03.with the fans, I'd be interested to know if that time was added on
:07:04. > :07:06.because the referee blew up as soon as the kick-off took place after
:07:07. > :07:10.that goal. If he's going to do it for one goal he's got to do before
:07:11. > :07:13.both. One thing that was quite good was the way Hiddink reacted
:07:14. > :07:17.afterwards because was quite refreshing. He knows they got out of
:07:18. > :07:19.jail, but he's admitted it was offside and it shouldn't have
:07:20. > :07:27.happened and we should have lost 3-2. But he has a point, his
:07:28. > :07:31.unbeaten run carries on. But Chelsea are in a bad place. As they sit here
:07:32. > :07:37.now they are in a bad place, they are in a relegation fight. It seems
:07:38. > :07:41.strange to say it but they are. I can't believe where they are in the
:07:42. > :07:45.table, Chelsea, as defending champions. It has happened a few
:07:46. > :07:49.years ago but I can't think of it in recent times. When you look at the
:07:50. > :07:52.quality in the Chelsea dressing room it's just incredible. We all thought
:07:53. > :07:57.Mourinho may be the problem they have moved on from him and Hiddink
:07:58. > :08:00.is therefore stuff John Terry post match talked about the spirit and
:08:01. > :08:04.how they dug it out and it was tribute to their spirit, but I'm not
:08:05. > :08:06.sure there is much consolation after losing four home points, first
:08:07. > :08:10.against West Brom and then against Everton for stop it really doesn't
:08:11. > :08:14.do Chelsea any favours and Chelsea look in a really bad place at the
:08:15. > :08:16.moment. Would you like to play against them
:08:17. > :08:21.at the moment, if you compare them to the side you faced last season,
:08:22. > :08:25.which is nigh on the same in terms of personnel. What is the difference
:08:26. > :08:31.when you play them, if anything? I don't know, it's difficult. What I
:08:32. > :08:34.would say overall, from the results, they seem easier to score goals
:08:35. > :08:38.against. They've conceded five goals in their last two home games, and
:08:39. > :08:43.that was unheard of last season. They were very tight defensively and
:08:44. > :08:46.scored quite a few goals on the counterattack. At the minute they
:08:47. > :08:50.have had to score five goals in the last two games just to draw them.
:08:51. > :08:54.Do you think there is not humid that when you get off to a bad start, or
:08:55. > :08:58.you spend the first five or six games of the season not been
:08:59. > :09:01.perceived to be the all-powerful team you were the season before that
:09:02. > :09:07.sides since that and go for it a little bit more against you? And,
:09:08. > :09:10.therefore, it is sort of a snowball effect in some ways?
:09:11. > :09:15.There has been a snowball effect with Chelsea from pre-season, which
:09:16. > :09:19.not many of us looked into, but there certainly was with their
:09:20. > :09:26.shortened pre-season. They didn't win a game in pre-season. And then
:09:27. > :09:31.they went on to have the incident versus Swansea, and Hazard's injury,
:09:32. > :09:37.and we all know what went on there. It just carried on and carried on,
:09:38. > :09:40.and it has almost been a sideshow, so teams have said they are not in
:09:41. > :09:43.the place they should be and we can get something at Stamford Bridge,
:09:44. > :09:51.which used to be such a fortress over the last six or seven years.
:09:52. > :09:53.Now, as Leon Osman said you feel you can get results and score goals
:09:54. > :09:57.against them now. That is a positive for the league,
:09:58. > :10:01.not just Chelsea being ineffective, it's other teams in the league
:10:02. > :10:06.thinking, let's give it a go. Yes and I think it is fantastic, and
:10:07. > :10:11.across the board teams have seen big teams looking vulnerable, Norwich
:10:12. > :10:15.going to Manchester United a couple of weeks back, it's incredible, you
:10:16. > :10:19.just can't believe that. Chelsea have succumbed to some teams you
:10:20. > :10:23.really would expect them to, obviously it's a different case in
:10:24. > :10:26.point, but Chelsea look vulnerable. It's interesting that one of the
:10:27. > :10:30.first things Hiddink has done is bring back John Obi Mikel to try and
:10:31. > :10:34.ensure up the midfield, and yet it really hasn't solved all of the
:10:35. > :10:38.problems. They are looking a little bit more stable. They are still so
:10:39. > :10:42.vulnerable to goals and they are receding far too many goals.
:10:43. > :10:46.One final thing from an Everton perspective. When you are prone to
:10:47. > :10:51.letting leads go, does that affect you psychologically, do you think,
:10:52. > :10:55.as a team in the heat of battle when you are ahead going into the last
:10:56. > :11:00.ten minutes, do you think it is only human nature if you are on a certain
:11:01. > :11:05.run, to think, crikey, we might let this slip in the last ten?
:11:06. > :11:10.I'd love to say no but you'd have to say history says maybe it does. It
:11:11. > :11:13.is something you need to get out of you, it is something you need to
:11:14. > :11:18.make sure doesn't happen, but if it has happened on more than one
:11:19. > :11:20.occasion, you know, you are going to be feeling that until you start
:11:21. > :11:25.putting it right with results. Do you think that it means not
:11:26. > :11:28.altering your style in the whole 90 minutes, but maybe as you're getting
:11:29. > :11:32.closer to the end, getting tighter to try and see it out?
:11:33. > :11:37.That can depend on how the game goes. If you are comfortable in the
:11:38. > :11:41.lead you can carry on doing what you are doing. But, you know, if you are
:11:42. > :11:46.winning by one goal it's more difficult. The saying goes, if a
:11:47. > :11:49.manager makes a substitution to go a bit more negative and you concede a
:11:50. > :11:54.goal people complain you have brought it on yourself. That is why
:11:55. > :11:56.football is such a good game, I suppose.
:11:57. > :12:00.We must move on to Manchester City who beat Crystal Palace 4-0 at the
:12:01. > :12:05.Etihad yesterday. You were there, was it as comfortable as the
:12:06. > :12:08.scoreline suggests? Not for the first 15 minutes, Crystal Palace
:12:09. > :12:13.should have scored in the first couple of minutes. A good save by
:12:14. > :12:16.Joe Hart but Delaney should have finished it and then it would have
:12:17. > :12:23.been interesting to see the reaction of Manchester City, because Everton
:12:24. > :12:26.I felt were worthy of their point on Wednesday, and I'm sure City were
:12:27. > :12:30.looking at six points from the two games, they only got one on
:12:31. > :12:38.Wednesday, so they were desperate to get three. But as the game went on
:12:39. > :12:43.the quality of Aguero and Silva, it shone through in the end. But it was
:12:44. > :12:48.a mistake by Hennessey, who sadly has had a bit of a bad week, and in
:12:49. > :12:54.the end it was just a matter of how many. It was tough for Palace. It
:12:55. > :13:00.was a strange game. In the first half the mistake by Hennessey, and
:13:01. > :13:03.then deflected second goal. But then the other goals, the two they
:13:04. > :13:09.virtually walked in were very good team goals. Absolutely, Manchester
:13:10. > :13:15.City either draw all lose, or they win, not by one goal, it is four,
:13:16. > :13:18.five. It is quite strange. It's an amazing season, we keep saying that,
:13:19. > :13:26.and they are still in with a fantastic chance to win the league.
:13:27. > :13:31.But I do still feel it's going to be Arsenal's, but City are still in it.
:13:32. > :13:34.I think City have the ability in the second half of the season to go on
:13:35. > :13:38.an incredible run, simply because the first half of the season, for
:13:39. > :13:41.City, even though they are still in the title next you would have to
:13:42. > :13:45.describe them as being inconsistent because of the talent within the
:13:46. > :13:50.squad. I just feel, rather like Chelsea, they are vulnerable
:13:51. > :13:52.defensively and they do give teams opportunities and chances. But the
:13:53. > :13:57.difference they have is the attacking quality. It is so good.
:13:58. > :14:02.Personally, I wasn't so sure about Fabian Delph, he had a very good
:14:03. > :14:05.game yesterday, but maybe he's the sort of tigerish midfielder they
:14:06. > :14:10.need because defensively and in midfield they can look vulnerable,
:14:11. > :14:14.but moving forward sometimes there from six is absolutely awesome.
:14:15. > :14:18.Aguero's linkup with the Silva's goal, having done all of the hard
:14:19. > :14:22.work, he's on a hat-trick and he squares it for Silva, that shows you
:14:23. > :14:25.not only the class of Aguero as a goal-scorer but he's a team player
:14:26. > :14:29.and the best striker in the league by far for me.
:14:30. > :14:32.I thought Fabian Delph's post match interview was interesting, he said
:14:33. > :14:35.he knew how it would work when he arrived at Manchester City and he
:14:36. > :14:39.said that when he gets his opportunity, and they are being
:14:40. > :14:43.rotated, it's up to him to make sure that he delivers a fantastic
:14:44. > :14:47.performance to give his manager some serious questions. I think with all
:14:48. > :14:50.of the speculation that there is on the Pellegrini, one of the plus
:14:51. > :14:55.points of it is that for a squad that is rotated quite a lot, there
:14:56. > :14:58.are never really any real murmurings of discontent coming out of the City
:14:59. > :15:03.squad. No, that's right, and talking about
:15:04. > :15:07.Fabian Schar, when he goes to a big club like Manchester City he knows
:15:08. > :15:10.he will have to work for his opportunity there is that much
:15:11. > :15:15.quality there and he has to take his chance -- Fabian Delph. Heat of his
:15:16. > :15:21.opportunity and was Man of the Match and that is all you can do. -- he
:15:22. > :15:24.took his opportunity. What are they like to play against,
:15:25. > :15:29.bearing in mind you are playing them 27 times in the space of a few days!
:15:30. > :15:32.? Difficult, they have some
:15:33. > :15:35.outstanding attacking players that are difficult to contain, especially
:15:36. > :15:40.at the Etihad, it was really difficult the other night to keep a
:15:41. > :15:44.clean sheet. But it is possible, and if you can try and get that goal
:15:45. > :15:50.they can be beaten, because they are slightly vulnerable defensively. But
:15:51. > :15:53.they are a quality team, and if you make me pick I would say they will
:15:54. > :15:58.win the title. Do you admire how he appears to keep
:15:59. > :16:03.the squad happy, two right-backs, two left-backs, four central
:16:04. > :16:07.midfield players, three or four that can play behind the Middle ten,
:16:08. > :16:15.there are no murmurings that appear to come out. They know they will get
:16:16. > :16:19.games, they are in all the competitions. In the running for all
:16:20. > :16:24.four. They know they will get games but we haven't mentioned one player,
:16:25. > :16:28.Kompany. Otamendi yesterday was very good. I can see them improving and
:16:29. > :16:33.having a really good relationship when Kompany comes back.
:16:34. > :16:39.They all get games and Delph knows primarily he will get Premier League
:16:40. > :16:44.games, the odd cup game. They have a site that plays in the Champions
:16:45. > :16:48.League and they have now progressed. They have made some progression with
:16:49. > :16:53.regards to the Champions League, the last 16. That is important, knowing
:16:54. > :16:58.there are a lot of games coming up. Knowing you will be playing in a
:16:59. > :17:03.good proportion of them. To keep a player interested. It is important
:17:04. > :17:07.your manager tells you that. In the build-up to those five games, you
:17:08. > :17:11.will play in these ones. A lot of players will want to miss games,
:17:12. > :17:15.here and there, so they are at a most sharp fall when they are in. If
:17:16. > :17:21.a player plays every minute of a game, they might become tired. But
:17:22. > :17:25.if you save you will play this game, missed that one because I need you,
:17:26. > :17:29.players will be happy to sit out a game here and there. Because they
:17:30. > :17:35.know they will be in for a big game and feel at their best. Contact us
:17:36. > :17:41.this afternoon. Leon Osman, Chris Powell and John Cross in the studio.
:17:42. > :17:48.Leaders, Leicester, opportunity missed yesterday? Must be seen as
:17:49. > :17:52.that. We need to start looking at it like that. For all the positivity,
:17:53. > :17:56.if you are saying they are in a race for the title or Mac top four, a
:17:57. > :18:04.point at the bottom of the table. If it was a city Mac or Arsenal, missed
:18:05. > :18:08.opportunity? They take the lead and Mahrez misses a penalty, poor
:18:09. > :18:13.penalty, second poor penalty in a row. It has to be seen as an
:18:14. > :18:17.opportunity gone. Villa have the worst home record in the Premier
:18:18. > :18:22.League and Leicester have the best way. Therefore, a clash that you
:18:23. > :18:27.thought had away win written all over it. Lester Nygaard Arsenal
:18:28. > :18:34.played today. They are in a 3-way title fight at Leicester play
:18:35. > :18:38.Arsenal. Man City also involved. I think Leicester played well. But
:18:39. > :18:42.that result in the week, I wonder how much that victory at Tottenham
:18:43. > :18:47.took out of them. Even though their form remains good, I wonder about
:18:48. > :18:51.four months levels, just going down a bit recently. I wonder whether
:18:52. > :18:57.fatigue is beginning to set in. I just feel that with Leicester, their
:18:58. > :19:01.resilience is wonderful. I really believe they will finish in the top
:19:02. > :19:06.four. Whether they can sustain the title challenge is another matter. I
:19:07. > :19:09.think it has to be seen as two points dropped. When people talk
:19:10. > :19:17.about it being two points dropped and form dipping, they have played
:19:18. > :19:21.Everton, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs around the festive period. I
:19:22. > :19:24.would argue the point that before the Spurs game they would have
:19:25. > :19:29.looked at the two away games and said if they got four points they
:19:30. > :19:33.would have been happy. Absolutely. Three points at Spurs. I am sure the
:19:34. > :19:37.fans will think we will get six but I am sure Ronnie Henry would have
:19:38. > :19:41.said if we draw at Spurs we will win away at Villa Park -- granny eyrie.
:19:42. > :19:46.We have been through a good period. It has been the other way round.
:19:47. > :19:49.Like John said, they were in a position to get the second goal
:19:50. > :19:54.which would have made them win the game but they missed it. I think
:19:55. > :19:59.they will be quietly happy. They will be disappointed they haven't at
:20:00. > :20:07.Spurs and they couldn't win at Villa as well. Four points from two games,
:20:08. > :20:11.on paper, he would have taken that. Yet Aston Villa have taken four out
:20:12. > :20:18.of six and yet still remained nine adrift. Of safety. It highlights how
:20:19. > :20:22.difficult it will be for them to get out of it even if they put together
:20:23. > :20:26.a good run. Not just the points differentiation, the traffic of the
:20:27. > :20:30.fixtures. As everyone picks up, as they inevitably do in the second
:20:31. > :20:35.half of the season because you know what is at stake, Villa look adrift.
:20:36. > :20:39.Look at Leicester. Incredible at all last season in a similar position
:20:40. > :20:44.but slightly better off. -- incredible battle. One of the most
:20:45. > :20:47.remarkable games last season under Nigel Pearson in Premier League
:20:48. > :20:52.history. This one, history tells us it cannot be done. It was a risk
:20:53. > :20:56.going in with Remi Garde and I am not sure it is paying off. They
:20:57. > :21:02.would argue that longer term goals will. And he will bring through
:21:03. > :21:09.good, young players. I can see them being able to overcome the volume of
:21:10. > :21:14.teams. Stoke- Arsenal, 4pm kick off with commentary on five live and
:21:15. > :21:18.highlights on Match of the Day 2 later. From a tactical perspective,
:21:19. > :21:24.Arsenal during the week at Liverpool, Liverpool cause them
:21:25. > :21:28.problems. They could argue they had a false nine role. If Stoke don't do
:21:29. > :21:33.something similar with Bojan in the false nine, can they cause than that
:21:34. > :21:37.amount of problems? Can it be that simple? It can be, the beauty of
:21:38. > :21:39.Stoke this year, they play such good football, so fluid, I'm sure they
:21:40. > :21:50.are missing Shaqiri. They can cause problems. Arsenal can
:21:51. > :21:54.look at that and wonder how they can combat it. Arsenal are such a great
:21:55. > :22:02.side going forward. It will be a terrific game because over the
:22:03. > :22:05.years, Stoke and the way they played, the way Tony Pulis set up
:22:06. > :22:10.the side, Arsenal couldn't handle it. But now it is a game that they
:22:11. > :22:16.will relish. I feel it will be an open game and Stoke, with the way
:22:17. > :22:21.Mark Hughes has changed... He has kept a corps of English plays with
:22:22. > :22:28.Shawcross, British players. Whelan and Walters. Married with Arnautovic
:22:29. > :22:32.and Bojan, superb mix at Stoke. One of the stories that is quite
:22:33. > :22:38.underrated. How do you combat the false nine? Why does it appear so
:22:39. > :22:43.confusing for centre halves if they don't have somebody who is up there
:22:44. > :22:50.against them for 90 minutes? They don't want to go in areas that they
:22:51. > :22:54.are not used to going into. Having a false number nine, if the
:22:55. > :22:57.centre-half feels he has to go in, the clever teams will, all of a
:22:58. > :23:01.sudden, their movement and passing and combination play, they will get
:23:02. > :23:06.someone into those areas. What tends to happen, the centre-back stays,
:23:07. > :23:09.doesn't want to come out, the full is number nine pick up the ball in
:23:10. > :23:13.good areas that they can damage opposing offenders. You have tried
:23:14. > :23:18.that, hasn't made Smith done that role? We have tried it with Stoke at
:23:19. > :23:22.Liverpool. Putting the two outside players right up in between the
:23:23. > :23:27.full-back and centre-half. Basically keep a back four outback to mark two
:23:28. > :23:32.players and you get a tactical advantage by overloading the numbers
:23:33. > :23:36.in the middle of the park. That is where the initial... Positive comes
:23:37. > :23:40.from. If they want to try and put another man into midfield, usually
:23:41. > :23:47.centre-half, that is where the problems come. It is a good little
:23:48. > :23:51.tackle advantage. A lot of teams try to use it. Walters will be able to
:23:52. > :23:57.do that Shaqiri role. Absolutely, if the centre-half steps out, that is
:23:58. > :24:02.his bread-and-butter, where Walters wants to be. The second centre-half
:24:03. > :24:06.steps out and then he will be in. Stoke are a great team, physical but
:24:07. > :24:11.attractive football. Mark Hughes has done a great job. This was strength
:24:12. > :24:15.against beautiful football and now both play beautiful football.
:24:16. > :24:21.Arsenal will outplay them. You know Arsene Wenger very well, John, what
:24:22. > :24:25.are his personal feelings when he goes to Stoke? Jamie Murphy says he
:24:26. > :24:29.deserves all the abuse he gets at the Britannia whingeing about other
:24:30. > :24:33.teams playing but he never knows when Vieri used to get sent off
:24:34. > :24:38.every game. Might be exaggerating slightly but I will produce point to
:24:39. > :24:43.John. Fair point, I was amused to see him in the papers saying that he
:24:44. > :24:46.gets a worse reception from Stoke fan than Tottenham fans in the north
:24:47. > :24:50.London derby. My am not sure. Maybe he is talking about
:24:51. > :24:54.London derby. My am not sure. Maybe the next game. Stoke fans
:24:55. > :24:56.London derby. My am not sure. Maybe completely besmirched their club?
:24:57. > :25:02.Arsenal fans will say that is because Aaron Ramsey broke his leg.
:25:03. > :25:06.But Stoke fans will say, I'm on, you have consistently and constantly had
:25:07. > :25:14.a go at our club -- hang on. And this is our club that we love, we
:25:15. > :25:16.will have a go. Whenever I go to Stoke, it is a passionate
:25:17. > :25:19.atmosphere. It is cold and windy. Expect that today. It represents
:25:20. > :25:23.everything, almost, that Arsenal don't like in the physical approach.
:25:24. > :25:33.It has changed since then but White remains Arsenal is because we
:25:34. > :25:36.feelings against Arsene Wenger. I understand because what he said of
:25:37. > :25:42.the Shawcross tackle and Ramsay saying he meant it but I can't
:25:43. > :25:46.believe that he would. And the rugby tackle, rugby football. Under Tony
:25:47. > :25:51.Pulis. Tony Pulis is well within his rights to play how he wants.
:25:52. > :25:56.Ridiculous. Arsenal players play in a certain way and it is within the
:25:57. > :25:59.rules and so is Stoke. Stoke have evolved but the hangover is still
:26:00. > :26:03.there. The antipathy and anger towards Arsene Wenger is still
:26:04. > :26:08.there. That is why it is such an interesting game. But the football
:26:09. > :26:11.has evolved. All the jobs, the managers that have emerged this
:26:12. > :26:17.season, Mark Hughes is right up there. He has brought in fantastic
:26:18. > :26:20.players, they play a different way. They will almost be looking to make
:26:21. > :26:24.a statement against Arsenal and their record is appalling. You
:26:25. > :26:32.genuinely wonder how much it all affects Arsenal. They haven't won at
:26:33. > :26:35.the Britannia since 2010. I wonder whether Stoke are more up for this
:26:36. > :26:37.as a club, not just a group of players, then any other fixture?
:26:38. > :26:45.Possibly. You always enjoy beating big teams
:26:46. > :26:50.when they come to town. The fans feel that. When they come. You know
:26:51. > :26:55.when a team doesn't fancy coming to your place it is even more exciting.
:26:56. > :26:59.I am sure the players will be more enthusiastic about that game than
:27:00. > :27:03.others. But it is during games when things start to go against you or
:27:04. > :27:07.for you coming you still know no matter how much it is going, they
:27:08. > :27:12.still don't fancy it so we could be 2-0 down but they don't fancy this,
:27:13. > :27:15.we can turn this around. It is that type of mental thing as much as
:27:16. > :27:20.anything. They have beaten both Manchester club this year. Chelsea.
:27:21. > :27:28.They like the big teams coming to town. Pressure is on Arsenal today,
:27:29. > :27:32.for sure. Arsenal took Spurs. Given that they were beaten by Leicester
:27:33. > :27:37.during the week, Chris, and then went 1-0 down at home to Sunderland,
:27:38. > :27:41.I am sure there were quite a lot of people thinking Spurs, who we go
:27:42. > :27:46.again. Just the moment at the start of the week when you think they
:27:47. > :27:50.could make a title challenge. Yesterday was very important. When
:27:51. > :27:58.you are talking to a Spurs fan since a boy... Here we go again! LAUGHTER
:27:59. > :28:03.It was a real disappointment. Against a good Leicester side having
:28:04. > :28:06.a terrific season, as we all know. You just felt that it was
:28:07. > :28:10.Sunderland, Defoe coming back, played for Spurs in two different
:28:11. > :28:16.spells, here we go again. He is going to score. Van Aanholt. But the
:28:17. > :28:20.response was quick and immediate, which was important, I felt, not
:28:21. > :28:25.only for the crowd but the players. Second half, they were fantastic.
:28:26. > :28:31.They are getting close. We can see what Pochettino is trying to do with
:28:32. > :28:37.young players emerging not only from the academy but Dele Alli. Superb
:28:38. > :28:43.signing. With Chelsea being out of the picture this year, for me, this
:28:44. > :28:48.is the year they can make the top four. They really can. Chelsea are
:28:49. > :28:52.out of the picture, Leicester are in there. Manchester United are having
:28:53. > :28:59.their troubles and so are Liverpool in a roundabout way. This is their
:29:00. > :29:03.chance to make that step up. With the season be considered a failure
:29:04. > :29:10.if they don't make the top four? -- would the season. As a supporter?
:29:11. > :29:16.US. Because of the season they have had, only losing three games this
:29:17. > :29:20.season -- yes. Only Leicester have lost less games. Personally, I would
:29:21. > :29:28.think so. The feeling within the club... Is for position is theirs to
:29:29. > :29:32.lose. I think you have got to seize the opportunity. Without doubt, the
:29:33. > :29:35.opportunity is there for Tottenham. I like the way Pochettino is going
:29:36. > :29:40.about his business, building from within. Interesting future.
:29:41. > :29:44.Basically, the club is having to move into the new stadium. It will
:29:45. > :29:48.be a period of transition. Yet what he is doing so cleverly is in
:29:49. > :29:51.praising the youth setup, bringing through those young players and it
:29:52. > :29:56.is working and paying dividends for them now. That is the truly
:29:57. > :29:58.impressive part. Dele Alli, how can you improve on that? He needs to be
:29:59. > :30:05.the signing of the season opinion. Spurs epitomises that,
:30:06. > :30:10.good, young, vibrant third ball. He is terrific. Anfield, Liverpool
:30:11. > :30:16.against Manchester United, 2pm kick off. Jonathan Pearce covering it for
:30:17. > :30:24.Match of the Day 2 later on. Reverse fixture at Old Trafford was anaemic,
:30:25. > :30:26.brightened up by two great goals, Benteke and Martial. Do you expect
:30:27. > :30:34.to date to be more passionate? Well, the build-up to the game
:30:35. > :30:38.certainly has been passionate, there have been interesting words from
:30:39. > :30:41.both managers, Louis van Gaal has commented on Jurgen Klopp's
:30:42. > :30:45.touchline theatrics and dramatics, racing up and down the touchline,
:30:46. > :30:49.very much the style Martin O'Neill used at Leicester all those years
:30:50. > :30:53.ago, you will remember. Jurgen Klopp will not be fazed at all by
:30:54. > :30:58.Manchester United manager's comments about that saying it is too dramatic
:30:59. > :31:02.and it is all for show, he'll do it again today. He's commentated Bell
:31:03. > :31:05.commented on the spec elation about Louis van Gaal and said United
:31:06. > :31:10.should not sack him. The players will not need manager comments to
:31:11. > :31:15.stoke them up, it is a wild affair, Steven Gerrard got sent off 30
:31:16. > :31:18.seconds into his last Liverpool-united game last season,
:31:19. > :31:22.one of the most fierce rivalries in the world football, why I don't
:31:23. > :31:27.think the Liverpool players as they played against Arsenal in the week,
:31:28. > :31:31.they will stiffen up the midfield, we do not know the teams yet, it
:31:32. > :31:37.will be interesting to see how they line up after the midweek games. But
:31:38. > :31:40.it's very important for Manchester United, this. If they lose I think
:31:41. > :31:44.it will be one defeat in nine, their worst record since the early days of
:31:45. > :31:49.Sir Alex when he was under threat of his managerial job, and it could be
:31:50. > :31:53.another step towards the exit Doug Ford Louis van Gaal, who was nudged
:31:54. > :31:56.towards the exit door by Jurgen Klopp that buying Munich when his
:31:57. > :32:00.Borussia Dortmund team beats buying Munich 3-1, six weeks before van
:32:01. > :32:04.Gaal got the chop will stop in zones of the build-up to the game,
:32:05. > :32:07.Manchester United manager slapping off a Liverpool manager, there is
:32:08. > :32:09.news for you! Van Gaal's record against Liverpool
:32:10. > :32:12.since he's been at United has been Van Gaal's record against Liverpool
:32:13. > :32:17.quite good, one of the major positives probably of his rainfall
:32:18. > :32:21.stop the performance at Anfield last season was probably the best
:32:22. > :32:25.performance they put in. -- of his reign.
:32:26. > :32:31.Wayne Rooney doesn't have a great record, Juan Mata was superb. Trying
:32:32. > :32:34.to put that right, not convinced by the Liverpool centre-backs. They
:32:35. > :32:40.always looked likely to concede a goal. If Manchester United score
:32:41. > :32:44.first and then go very dour and defensive and determined I think it
:32:45. > :32:49.will be a low scoring affair. That Liverpool can't afford that to
:32:50. > :32:53.happen. Very, very important game this for both sides in terms of both
:32:54. > :32:57.Champions League places. If Liverpool win Manchester United have
:32:58. > :33:01.work to do to finish in the top four. If Liverpool lose they are out
:33:02. > :33:06.of any contention for the top four, I think, on a bitterly cold day, but
:33:07. > :33:13.always a joy to talk to you. LAUGHTER
:33:14. > :33:18.You do look cold, John Peers, you look like you are about to go up
:33:19. > :33:26.Everest, not commentate on football. Johnathan Pearce full of the joys of
:33:27. > :33:29.winter! -- Johnathan Pearce. What managerial style do you prefer, a
:33:30. > :33:34.manager who stays calm on the touchline and does not do anything,
:33:35. > :33:37.or a manager who is ranting, raving, gesticulating and offering advice,
:33:38. > :33:41.you personally, there is no right or wrong answer?
:33:42. > :33:45.I've only ever had two managers and neither charged up the line when we
:33:46. > :33:52.scored. I haven't got any comparison, really. But he's great
:33:53. > :33:56.to watch, Jurgen Klopp. When you see him, as an Evertonian even, he's fun
:33:57. > :34:01.to watch charging up the line. When you are playing, because when you
:34:02. > :34:05.are out wide, you are closest to the manager, do you want to be left to
:34:06. > :34:08.get on with your game, or do you appreciate advice?
:34:09. > :34:11.I think most players will tell you they want to be left
:34:12. > :34:16.the game. CHUCKLES
:34:17. > :34:21.Rather than being played like Subbuteo players! It's up to the
:34:22. > :34:25.manager and he is the one who determines that. As I say, Klopp has
:34:26. > :34:28.been a lot of fun since he arrived both on the touchline and in
:34:29. > :34:32.interviews. How much do you think about your
:34:33. > :34:35.touchline behaviour? I think every manager does have
:34:36. > :34:42.their own style and thinks about how do I react to certain events that
:34:43. > :34:46.happened during the game. I always feel it's very emotional being a
:34:47. > :34:52.manager and you have to do your best to keep that in check. I see no
:34:53. > :34:57.reason why Jurgen running up and down the touchline, the fans like to
:34:58. > :35:03.see that and they like to see the Passion and the belief you have in
:35:04. > :35:08.your team, and UI with them. But, of course, you could have two totally
:35:09. > :35:11.contrasting figures today in Liverpool and Manchester United --
:35:12. > :35:13.you are with them. You are seen as the figurehead of the club, people
:35:14. > :35:15.look at you and the figurehead of the club, people
:35:16. > :35:17.and how you dress the figurehead of the club, people
:35:18. > :35:20.important and managers look into the figurehead of the club, people
:35:21. > :35:23.and you have to because all people always look at youth regardless of
:35:24. > :35:26.the result, as the man who leads the team, who is at the front of the
:35:27. > :35:29.football club and how you are perceived is seen around the country
:35:30. > :35:34.and around the world. Did you sometimes go out into your
:35:35. > :35:39.technical area and have a rant and gesticulating do whatever to show
:35:40. > :35:43.your fans, whatever club you are at, that you care? If it's going badly
:35:44. > :35:47.and it's not a great game, you are one or two down and the football
:35:48. > :35:51.isn't great, did you do it sometimes to get everybody going?
:35:52. > :35:58.Of course. Not only that but also to your players. Like a Leon said, you
:35:59. > :36:01.are trying to impart knowledge and tactics to the player, and they want
:36:02. > :36:05.to get on with the game, and want you to leave them alone, which is
:36:06. > :36:09.fair enough, but sometimes you do it to spark a reaction from the team,
:36:10. > :36:13.maybe from the crowd, but you do have to keep it in check, you do get
:36:14. > :36:17.in trouble if you come out of your area, of course, which is a bone of
:36:18. > :36:20.contention for every manager, you have the area and if you have a step
:36:21. > :36:24.out of it you are told to get back into it by the fourth official. But
:36:25. > :36:29.I do feel that emotionally sometimes it can get to you. You just have to
:36:30. > :36:32.keep yourself in check sometimes. We had a discussion on Friday night
:36:33. > :36:38.on 5 live sport about the obsession of managers being figureheads, as
:36:39. > :36:44.Chris just mentioned John Cross. Nigel Pearson was one of the guests.
:36:45. > :36:50.Do you think there is too much emphasis on the manager now? Our
:36:51. > :36:54.discussion so far about this game has all been about van Gaal and
:36:55. > :36:58.Klopp. Possibly. I just feel they have
:36:59. > :37:04.become such figureheads. You are almost bordering into showbiz here
:37:05. > :37:07.because they are. Where Klopp has been clever is he has bought into
:37:08. > :37:12.that crowd and the Anfield atmosphere, he has embraced it and
:37:13. > :37:15.used it. Yes, he used to do it at Dortmund, we know that, that's why
:37:16. > :37:20.he became such a well renowned figure across Europe and fans were
:37:21. > :37:22.desperate for him to come to the Premier League because they like
:37:23. > :37:26.that and they like to see the visible passion. And by sheer
:37:27. > :37:30.contrast, I was at Newcastle the other night, and van Gaal, during
:37:31. > :37:37.one of the best games I've seen this season, when it swung every which
:37:38. > :37:42.way, he stayed rooted to his seat. I just feel really there is probably
:37:43. > :37:47.too much made about managers, but I do feel the managers can use it to
:37:48. > :37:49.their advantage. I think Klopp is using it really Cleverley at the
:37:50. > :37:55.moment whereas I don't think van Gaal is particularly popular. You
:37:56. > :37:59.are looking at this from and Everton point of view, but do you think this
:38:00. > :38:03.fixture needs more passion inserted into it? Gerrard was sent off last
:38:04. > :38:09.season but the game earlier this season was very dull. Talking to the
:38:10. > :38:12.fans from both sides, there wasn't even a pantomime villain to get
:38:13. > :38:18.stuck into from either side, it was all just a bit flat and nice.
:38:19. > :38:21.I think that is why we are talking about the managers. Traditionally,
:38:22. > :38:25.Steven Gerrard, Gary Neville, we were talking about the players and
:38:26. > :38:29.the way they would come together on the pitch and the tackles might fly
:38:30. > :38:33.in and that seems to have gone in this era, especially the game at Old
:38:34. > :38:36.Trafford earlier this season. I think that's why we talk about the
:38:37. > :38:41.managers more and their styles rather than any fiery events on the
:38:42. > :38:45.pitch. What is your prediction? Man United.
:38:46. > :38:51.OK! LAUGHTER
:38:52. > :38:58.Chris? 2-2. 2-2?
:38:59. > :39:03.I think Liverpool. Between the three of you you have satisfied everybody
:39:04. > :39:06.and annoyed everybody! We will talk about the transfers, we are in the
:39:07. > :39:10.middle of the transfer window, back to one of the games yesterday and
:39:11. > :39:13.Jonjo Shelvey, who had a very good game for Newcastle. We can hear from
:39:14. > :39:17.him first and then we will discuss his impact, after the game he spoke
:39:18. > :39:21.to Conor McNamara. From what you've seen of your new
:39:22. > :39:23.team-mates in your first game and a few training sessions, is there
:39:24. > :39:27.enough quality in the squad to be far away from the renegade and zone?
:39:28. > :39:32.I'm very shocked that this team is in and around it. -- relegation
:39:33. > :39:35.zone. Considering the players that are in the dressing room. It's a
:39:36. > :39:42.pleasure to play with them, they know where your pass is going to go.
:39:43. > :39:45.I feel straight at home and that is a credit to the players and the
:39:46. > :39:48.staff they have got here. He's shocked the club have found
:39:49. > :39:57.themselves in the situation they are in. John Cross, surprised Swansea
:39:58. > :40:03.sold him to direct relegation rival? Very shocked and ?412 million. It
:40:04. > :40:06.was a good amount to get for Swansea.
:40:07. > :40:13.Is a good piece of business from a financial point of view but
:40:14. > :40:16.potentially it's a huge own goal -- and for ?12 million. His career had
:40:17. > :40:24.come to an end at Swansea for one season and -- reason or another. He
:40:25. > :40:28.wanted to play regularly and stake a claim for 2016, being on
:40:29. > :40:30.wanted to play regularly and stake a of the squad, I'm sure he
:40:31. > :40:32.wanted to play regularly and stake a His passing range, the wonderful
:40:33. > :40:34.crossfield pass for young His passing range, the wonderful
:40:35. > :40:43.the build-up to the Wijnaldum's goal was just showcasing what Shelvey is
:40:44. > :40:48.capable of doing -- Janmaat. Newcastle must be delighted with
:40:49. > :40:52.that bit of business. Cars, it has impact on arrival, it has
:40:53. > :40:55.strengthened them and Swansea are in the bottom three.
:40:56. > :40:59.That is what we were told he was bought for, the range of passing,
:41:00. > :41:01.which a lot of people have said they have not had their Cincy Yohan
:41:02. > :41:06.Cabaye. For him to start in after 15 minutes
:41:07. > :41:14.and contribute to setting up two goals, it seems they were right in
:41:15. > :41:18.saying so -- since Yohan Cabaye. If Newcastle stay up and Swansea go
:41:19. > :41:24.down, 12 million is not the worst bit of business. But if it doesn't
:41:25. > :41:25.turn out that way than 12 million seems a good feed.
:41:26. > :41:29.Some interesting transfer seems a good feed.
:41:30. > :41:33.on the south coast. Southampton went about getting Charlie Austin in a
:41:34. > :41:36.very quiet, understated way, it wasn't all over the papers and
:41:37. > :41:42.yesterday morning in the papers they had signed Charlie Austin. Someone
:41:43. > :41:44.is in the Telegraph said it is proof of the recruitment department, the
:41:45. > :41:50.manager and the owner all going in the same direction. Very clever
:41:51. > :41:55.business because it was under the radar, it came out yesterday and
:41:56. > :41:58.everyone was so shocked, ?4 million. Not great from QPR's point of view,
:41:59. > :42:07.especially with the bid Lester made in the summer, 13 million. --
:42:08. > :42:10.Leicester City. 13 million and they sold him for four. Not great
:42:11. > :42:14.business but terrific for Southampton. They have a proven
:42:15. > :42:20.goal-scorer in the Premier League and Championship. He will score
:42:21. > :42:23.goals for them. Southampton have a good mix, they've still got players
:42:24. > :42:26.that have come through like Ward-Prowse and they've added
:42:27. > :42:31.Charlie Austin to supplement what they have already got in Graziano
:42:32. > :42:34.Pelle and Shane Long and they will get stronger, for sure.
:42:35. > :42:38.When Bournemouth came in last season, and I was there when they
:42:39. > :42:41.beat Bolton and were guaranteed promotion, there were lots of
:42:42. > :42:44.Championship fans saying, hang on, it is not plucky little Bournemouth
:42:45. > :42:49.but they have money behind them and then there was discussion. But
:42:50. > :42:53.they've splashed the cash in this transfer window. Benik Afobe, those
:42:54. > :42:56.Grabban and Juan Iturbe on loan from Roma.
:42:57. > :43:00.It's incredible, they've done a great deal of business, and you are
:43:01. > :43:04.right, they have serious money behind them. The one thing I think
:43:05. > :43:07.Eddie Howe is doing really well is looking at their squad it is so
:43:08. > :43:15.English -based, 90% are English players. And I like the fact he's
:43:16. > :43:18.obviously taken a bit of a gamble on Benik Afobe, because it's lots of
:43:19. > :43:22.money for a player who we are still unsure whether he will score goals
:43:23. > :43:25.in the Premier League. Grabban is a huge gamble because it didn't really
:43:26. > :43:29.work for him elsewhere. I like the fact he's gone for home-grown
:43:30. > :43:31.talent. For the dressing room harmony and what they can do on the
:43:32. > :43:35.pitch. You could argue that Benik Afobe,
:43:36. > :43:39.that like Dele Alli, has some games under his belt in the lower leagues,
:43:40. > :43:45.so he's a bit more expedience than people may be my give him credit
:43:46. > :43:50.for. John, Chris and Leon thank you for your company. We have two games
:43:51. > :43:56.on Sunday, Stoke against Arsenal on 5 live at 4:15pm, full commentary of
:43:57. > :43:59.that, and we will have highlights of that and Liverpool-Manchester United
:44:00. > :44:03.on Match of the Day 2 at 10:30pm on BBC One.
:44:04. > :44:07.MUSIC: (They Long To Be) Close To You by The Carpenters