0:00:27 > 0:00:31Hello and welcome to Match of the Day 2 Extra -
0:00:31 > 0:00:34we're on BBC Two, 5 live, the BBC Sport website and app,
0:00:34 > 0:00:36as well as the iPlayer. Joining me today -
0:00:36 > 0:00:39Premier League winner Chris Sutton, Sue Smith -
0:00:39 > 0:00:43who played over 90 times for England - and Sunday Times Football
0:00:43 > 0:00:47Correspondent Jonathan Northcroft. As ever, we want to hear
0:00:47 > 0:00:49from you, using #bbcfootball on social media -
0:00:49 > 0:00:53or you can text us on 85058. Here's what's coming up.
0:00:53 > 0:01:01Manchester City win a record 16th consecutive Premier League game,
0:01:01 > 0:01:06thrashing Spurs 4-1. The pressure grows on Mark Hughes
0:01:06 > 0:01:08as Stoke were beaten 3-0 at home by West Ham.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12And we'll be at the Hawthorns where second-bottom
0:01:12 > 0:01:14West Brom face Manchester United at 2:15pm.
0:01:14 > 0:01:17The Mirror - We Are De Champions - with Pep Guardiola hailing
0:01:17 > 0:01:22the performance of Kevin De Bruyne; it also says Luiz out,
0:01:22 > 0:01:25Evans in - with Chelsea set to sell David Luiz to Juventus
0:01:25 > 0:01:27and Manchester United reportedly interested in bringing Jonny Evans
0:01:27 > 0:01:31back to Old Trafford. The Sun - Point of No Rooturn -
0:01:31 > 0:01:35I love reading out these headlines on a Sunday lunchtime!
0:01:35 > 0:01:43Wayne Rooney ruling out a dramatic England World Cup return.
0:01:43 > 0:01:49The Observer - Hughes defiant in face of Stoke fans' fury.
0:01:49 > 0:01:54Will come on to Mark Hughes and Stoke in a little while. All three
0:01:54 > 0:01:56of you, Chris first, tell me something different about Manchester
0:01:56 > 0:02:02City after yesterday.It's extremely difficult.That's partly why I went
0:02:02 > 0:02:06to you first.I don't think there has never been a season where a team
0:02:06 > 0:02:11has struck so much fear into all the opposition. We say that the league
0:02:11 > 0:02:17is over but effectively it absolutely is. We are in
0:02:17 > 0:02:21mid-December, and it's never been like this before. I think the other
0:02:21 > 0:02:25teams just simply don't know how to play against Manchester City.The
0:02:25 > 0:02:30fear is a point I want to expand on but I don't want to let you two off
0:02:30 > 0:02:33the hook. Soup, is there something different?We have spoken about
0:02:33 > 0:02:38their attacking qualities and how good they are at going forward and
0:02:38 > 0:02:40their movement and interchanging positions but what I'm really
0:02:40 > 0:02:43impressed about is how good they are defensively, the fact they win the
0:02:43 > 0:02:48ball back so quickly after losing it. You can see, De Bruyne will go
0:02:48 > 0:02:54and then some body else will go, and it's the knock-on effect. They
0:02:54 > 0:02:58didn't let Spurs out yesterday, didn't let them have a good ball
0:02:58 > 0:03:01through for Harry Kane yesterday and it's so important that you have that
0:03:01 > 0:03:04workrate off the ball as well as the quality they have on it. I don't
0:03:04 > 0:03:10know if that's different.It's not spoken about enough. So that's all
0:03:10 > 0:03:14right. Now you could be in trouble. I agree with Sue, they played in a
0:03:14 > 0:03:18slightly different way yesterday, the new Spurs would try and play
0:03:18 > 0:03:21them at their own game. If you look at the stats it shows you Spurs are
0:03:21 > 0:03:25the only team that run as much as City, City waited for that and they
0:03:25 > 0:03:28did the pressing of Spurs' defence and played it a bit longer and
0:03:28 > 0:03:33absolutely devastated them. They were using new players. You forgot
0:03:33 > 0:03:36at times that Mangala was on the pitch and Fabian Delph was at
0:03:36 > 0:03:40left-back and Gundogan was making his second start of the season
0:03:40 > 0:03:44scoring his first goal of the year. It's like a machine that's working
0:03:44 > 0:03:49so well that even the spare parts are good.The goalkeeper is a
0:03:49 > 0:03:51difference as well. That has been talked about.But again, not as
0:03:51 > 0:03:57much.Last season when they permitted games, Bravo, the only
0:03:57 > 0:04:04shot they had on target, they have that confidence in him and they can
0:04:04 > 0:04:11see games through.Let's expand on the fear then. Let me start with
0:04:11 > 0:04:14you, Sue. Do you think that's affecting teams as soon as they step
0:04:14 > 0:04:19on the pitch to play them? Undoubtedly. I think
0:04:19 > 0:04:22psychologically, I think Man City go out and believe they can beat
0:04:22 > 0:04:25everybody and I think when you go onto the pitch, I've done it when I
0:04:25 > 0:04:28played for England against Germany, Germany used to win World Cups,
0:04:28 > 0:04:32European Championships and you'd go out and before you even stepped on
0:04:32 > 0:04:36the pitch you were beaten, defeated, they have that psychological edge.
0:04:36 > 0:04:41Did you not try stuff then? As a team or as an individual when you
0:04:41 > 0:04:48play Germany that you would have done if you'd played France, or...
0:04:48 > 0:04:53Frans are good now but I mean, whoever.You'd go out there with a
0:04:53 > 0:04:56game plan and how you could beat them but as soon as you go a goal
0:04:56 > 0:05:04down. -- France. As a player you think to yourself how are we going
0:05:04 > 0:05:08to respond? These are the world champions, the European champions.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12Man City have that fear they can still in most teams that they face.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15There was a moment yesterday, Kieran Trippier, we showed on Match of the
0:05:15 > 0:05:19Day, he tries a risky pass, City pressing him so hard and he tries a
0:05:19 > 0:05:25risky ball and he puts his head in his hands in the middle of the game.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29You don't see a grown-up footballer doing that. That is how much it
0:05:29 > 0:05:33affected them mentally and the fact Harry Kane goes around fouling and
0:05:33 > 0:05:37should be sent off and Dele Alli the same. That's again how Spurs got
0:05:37 > 0:05:43disintegrated.We will come unto Spurs in it. Off air, Chris, we were
0:05:43 > 0:05:46talking about the two goals they scored against Manchester United
0:05:46 > 0:05:49last weekend which came from set pieces. One of the goals against
0:05:49 > 0:05:53Swansea came from David Silva getting on the end of the cross. The
0:05:53 > 0:05:57first goal last night that Gundogan scored again from a set piece, and
0:05:57 > 0:06:02you wonder whether teams are thinking, they have not passed
0:06:02 > 0:06:05through us, they haven't scored, they have only got a corner, and
0:06:05 > 0:06:09maybe switch off.I think that's a really good point. Because they are
0:06:09 > 0:06:13so worried about City playing through them, that when it comes to
0:06:13 > 0:06:17a set piece people don't associate Manchester City with big strapping
0:06:17 > 0:06:24centre halves and centre forwards. It just shows you how effective they
0:06:24 > 0:06:30are in absolutely every area. Guardiola said after the game
0:06:30 > 0:06:34yesterday, about Kevin De Bruyne, you can't imagine how good he plays
0:06:34 > 0:06:43with the ball. He runs like a player in the Conference, as in he runs and
0:06:43 > 0:06:47runs and never stops, not a criticism of his running style. De
0:06:47 > 0:06:50Bruyne is a good example to every young player. Is at the same thing
0:06:50 > 0:06:53to me on Wednesday night about David Silva, he called David Silva an
0:06:53 > 0:06:59animal and wanted to focus on his work ethic and workrate. So the
0:06:59 > 0:07:02argument being, why can't all Premier League teams work as hard as
0:07:02 > 0:07:06De Bruyne and David Silva?That's the example they are setting out to
0:07:06 > 0:07:09every young boy and girl out there that want to play football at the
0:07:09 > 0:07:13highest level, look at those two players, absolutely fantastic going
0:07:13 > 0:07:17forward. But it's what they do off the ball, the will and desire to win
0:07:17 > 0:07:21the ball back quickly for their team. They are team players as well
0:07:21 > 0:07:25as having the individual brilliance that can win a game on its own.
0:07:25 > 0:07:32Harold says many cynics but I've got to say as an Everton fan not only
0:07:32 > 0:07:34City are unstoppable but the football they play is beautiful to
0:07:34 > 0:07:37watch, sometimes the best thing is to sit back and admire. Kirsty,
0:07:37 > 0:07:40Leeds, Forest and Liverpool played better football than City do now. I
0:07:40 > 0:07:44don't want to pretend football started in 92 because I started
0:07:44 > 0:07:48watching in the 60s. Charlie, this is becoming hysterical, clearly City
0:07:48 > 0:07:51are nowhere near eclipsing many of the Premier League rates. They are
0:07:51 > 0:07:54doing well and playing attractive football but even if they go on as
0:07:54 > 0:07:58suspected to win the Premier League this would be twice in a few years,
0:07:58 > 0:08:02United have a much better record than this. Another one, whose
0:08:02 > 0:08:05Twitter name I can't read out because I think it's rude, but you
0:08:05 > 0:08:12will know who you are: I will just call you Lord rocket. The perennial
0:08:12 > 0:08:15BBC/ Manchester City love in continuous, every day there is a new
0:08:15 > 0:08:18article telling us how Man City are the greatest team of all-time. This
0:08:18 > 0:08:24despite fact they've not won anything for a couple of years, yes,
0:08:24 > 0:08:28there are good but with their money there is no surprise. That debate,
0:08:28 > 0:08:32Jonathan, will go on all season, in fact until Guardiola leaves City.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35Because we can't compare City to the current teams they are so far ahead
0:08:35 > 0:08:40of the rest that that is what left with. I'm on board with a lot of
0:08:40 > 0:08:45that, I do think we rush to say they are the best ever to quickly. You
0:08:45 > 0:08:50only have to think of Arsenal and United between 98 - 2004 to think of
0:08:50 > 0:08:54a couple of teams that might have beaten Man City. But here and now no
0:08:54 > 0:08:57team has ever had a first half of the season like they have had and
0:08:57 > 0:09:02that we can save.Krhin mention the point we have, do you feel the
0:09:02 > 0:09:07majority of teams going against City are showing them too much is done in
0:09:07 > 0:09:12respect. Could teams catch Man City out in the New Year and figure out
0:09:12 > 0:09:16how to handle them? -- Krhin.Teams are trying to figure out how to
0:09:16 > 0:09:19handle them but they can't get anywhere near them at times. Spurs
0:09:19 > 0:09:22were trying to do the right thing yesterday and some teams have done
0:09:22 > 0:09:27different things against them, the United derby when United try to sit
0:09:27 > 0:09:31back and defend and that didn't stop them. Teams have gone and tried to
0:09:31 > 0:09:34attack them and they find a way to win and that's the sign of a good
0:09:34 > 0:09:38team, whether it is from a set piece, playing through the third is,
0:09:38 > 0:09:41they can mix the game up and that's why they are so good and so far
0:09:41 > 0:09:44ahead at the moment.On to Spurs, Chris Sutton, if you'd been on the
0:09:44 > 0:09:48end of either the Harry Kane tackle or at the Dele Alli tackle would you
0:09:48 > 0:09:52have been disappointed to see them both get yellow and not read?Yes,
0:09:52 > 0:09:57of course. There were both red cards and people will say Harry Kane is
0:09:57 > 0:10:01not that type of player. It doesn't matter. Dele Alli this season has
0:10:01 > 0:10:06been a massive disappointment. Especially in the league, I don't
0:10:06 > 0:10:10think he's turned up. He's had all this kerfuffle about changing agents
0:10:10 > 0:10:13and this, that and the other and I don't know if it's affected him but
0:10:13 > 0:10:16he needs to get back to what he does best and that's performing on the
0:10:16 > 0:10:19pitch and that's the biggest difference wife Spurs are not
0:10:19 > 0:10:23performing, they are a bit of a one-man team.He's still a young lad
0:10:23 > 0:10:27and do you expect you'll have a bit of a dip that age?He is still a
0:10:27 > 0:10:32young lad and you do have dips but you can't take away from that, he
0:10:32 > 0:10:35was so effective for Spurs last season and he's gone missing this
0:10:35 > 0:10:40season.The expectation was so high because he was so good last season,
0:10:40 > 0:10:43so sometimes you come into the second or third season and you have
0:10:43 > 0:10:48to try and fulfil it and he hasn't been able to. There has been lots of
0:10:48 > 0:10:51change at Spurs, the formation, three at the back, they played four
0:10:51 > 0:10:57at the back, that will affect some of the attacking players.He was
0:10:57 > 0:10:59calculated, he knew what he was doing, it was a disgraceful
0:10:59 > 0:11:06challenge. He has shown more signs of that this season than last
0:11:06 > 0:11:10season. He is playing as a frustrated player. Something isn't
0:11:10 > 0:11:16right.I think that's exactly right, how he couldn't make an impact in
0:11:16 > 0:11:20the game.Dele Alli summed up Tottenham's mallows, he kicked the
0:11:20 > 0:11:25Manchester City players as often as he kicked the ball.It is a good
0:11:25 > 0:11:29line. I thought Foderingham did more in ten minutes and Dele Alli
0:11:29 > 0:11:32creatively and Elliot Lee has played against Man United, Arsenal and City
0:11:32 > 0:11:40in his last three big games and done absolutely nothing, which is a real
0:11:40 > 0:11:46worry -- Dele Alli has played against. It does below what he is
0:11:46 > 0:11:50being touted as what he is worth. He's not scoring and isn't making
0:11:50 > 0:11:56much impact.Last season I think he seemed to play with a really clear
0:11:56 > 0:12:04head and read the game superbly well. In that No 10 role he doesn't
0:12:04 > 0:12:08seem to know what he's doing in situations. He's been very, very
0:12:08 > 0:12:12average and that must be a worry for Spurs.I think teams know they can
0:12:12 > 0:12:16wind him up so they are playing on it, they know he has a bad tackle in
0:12:16 > 0:12:23him. He's playing in a free role and its finding that identity and what
0:12:23 > 0:12:28he's good at.Then just sent in a tweet that we put on screen. If you
0:12:28 > 0:12:31were listening on radio you will not have seen it and these three were
0:12:31 > 0:12:36looking at each other so hopefully they haven't seen it either. Then W
0:12:36 > 0:12:39made the point that Spurs are a one-man team and who do you think
0:12:39 > 0:12:46the one man he suggested?Toby Alderweireld.Were you looking at
0:12:46 > 0:12:49the screen?No, one of my best friends is a Spurs fan and he said
0:12:49 > 0:13:01he is great. Alderweireld's importance is there clearly.Going
0:13:01 > 0:13:04forward Harry Kane has carried Spurs, you can't get away from that.
0:13:04 > 0:13:08I take the point about Eriksen but the fact Dele Alli is not performing
0:13:08 > 0:13:14is a massive concern. Alderweireld has been good but I don't think
0:13:14 > 0:13:18Spurs seem as watertight the season. Isn't it as much with Alderweireld,
0:13:18 > 0:13:21as well as his defensive strengths, it's his ability to distribute the
0:13:21 > 0:13:25ball from either in a back two or a back three, either fizzing it into
0:13:25 > 0:13:29midfield to get them going, or the long crossfield balls of which
0:13:29 > 0:13:32arguably there is nobody better out in the Premier League.He has the
0:13:32 > 0:13:35ability to do that and his leadership at the back as well, you
0:13:35 > 0:13:39will miss a player like that, no doubt. Looking at last season you
0:13:39 > 0:13:42could name the Spurs starting XI and this season it's been difficult to
0:13:42 > 0:13:47do through injury, players going, bringing in players. That's going to
0:13:47 > 0:13:56disrupt a team like Spurs.Lemmy read some more tweets. Jamie saying,
0:13:56 > 0:14:01they didn't read the headline out about Harry Kane and Dele Alli
0:14:01 > 0:14:05stamping on Man City players -- let me read out. We have discussed it
0:14:05 > 0:14:08now so hopefully that's all right. Any of discussing Harry Kane and
0:14:08 > 0:14:16Dele Alli's terrible fouls, nothing said or done because they are Spurs
0:14:16 > 0:14:20players and English. I've read those out now and said with they should
0:14:20 > 0:14:24have been sent off. Any concern about Eric Dier? Is the suffering
0:14:24 > 0:14:28from sometimes being a midfield and sometimes being in a back three?
0:14:28 > 0:14:33Does he not know whether he's coming or going a bit?That's part of it, I
0:14:33 > 0:14:38think. I spoke to him recently. He can do both but I think he prefers
0:14:38 > 0:14:41midfield but Pochettino was telling him he can be the best centre-half
0:14:41 > 0:14:44in England. I actually think he's done all right until yesterday. He
0:14:44 > 0:14:49had a very poor game. He is at least taking responsibility and showing
0:14:49 > 0:14:52leadership on the pitch, which is not enough of the rest of them are
0:14:52 > 0:14:57doing.I don't think that's an excuse, playing various positions.
0:14:57 > 0:15:06You did.Jack of all trades. Last season he was adaptable and doing
0:15:06 > 0:15:12well. I just think he has lost a bit of form and there is a bit of doubt
0:15:12 > 0:15:15creeping into his mind and he needs to get their confidence back.Is it
0:15:15 > 0:15:20easy from one game to another?If you are a good player, Mark, it is
0:15:20 > 0:15:26easy.I'll set them up, you just knock them through the covers for
0:15:26 > 0:15:29four.The bottom line that Spurs is there are too many individuals in
0:15:29 > 0:15:32that team who aren't performing at the level at which they did last
0:15:32 > 0:15:36season, simple as that.Johnny, I've said before and I will say it again,
0:15:36 > 0:15:40Dele Alli is horribly overrated, let against another game in which he's
0:15:40 > 0:15:43done nothing and his fiery temperament is nothing to rave
0:15:43 > 0:15:47about, it makes him a liability and distracts Hepton. When is he going
0:15:47 > 0:15:53to mature? Kate says, without Wanyama Tottenham are a different
0:15:53 > 0:15:56team -- distracts him. Let's turn our attention is to Stoke, beaten
0:15:56 > 0:16:003-0 at home by West Ham yesterday. The pressure is growing on Mark
0:16:00 > 0:16:03Hughes.
0:16:03 > 0:16:08My view is that we're better than the form we are showing. We have to
0:16:08 > 0:16:13get ourselves out of the situation. Where in a difficult situation.
0:16:13 > 0:16:18Myself since I've been here hasn't been in. I don't intend to be
0:16:18 > 0:16:24involved in a relegation battle. It's not what we should be doing,
0:16:24 > 0:16:26but I think the clarity of understanding that actually we are
0:16:26 > 0:16:29in one at the moment. We have to recognise that and do something
0:16:29 > 0:16:37about it.You believe you're as good as man as any to get Stoke out of
0:16:37 > 0:16:42it.Absolutely, I know this league and the players aren't what they can
0:16:42 > 0:16:47produce on good days. Today wasn't a great day but we'll get a tune out
0:16:47 > 0:16:51of them and will be better.Do you think they will get better? Is there
0:16:51 > 0:16:56any evidence?No, I don't. I think defensively they've just been awful.
0:16:56 > 0:17:0339 goals conceded, over at two per game. Mark Hughes said he's never
0:17:03 > 0:17:08been in a relegation battle before. That absolutely doesn't matter. I
0:17:08 > 0:17:11think the first three seasons he was at Stoke, they finished ninth and
0:17:11 > 0:17:16all they did yesterday is launched it. West Ham outfought Stoke and I
0:17:16 > 0:17:22think he's on the brink. I wonder how long the board at Stoke will
0:17:22 > 0:17:27give him because the fans have turned. It's not 100 or 200, there
0:17:27 > 0:17:32are thousands of fans who want him out.You can look at every comment
0:17:32 > 0:17:38in one of two ways. Chris mentioned it there. Not being involved in a
0:17:38 > 0:17:42relegation battle. That can be a positive or negative. Some clubs
0:17:42 > 0:17:47look to relegation exposed to give them up. Is that the positive or
0:17:47 > 0:17:53negative?It's a tough one to call. I think he thinks or nose at the
0:17:53 > 0:17:56moment, the board of the club are backing him. Like Chris said, once
0:17:56 > 0:18:03the fans started to turn, they starts put more pressure, the game
0:18:03 > 0:18:07West Brom is a must win. They have to get the result there. Without
0:18:07 > 0:18:11that, yes, he's in major trouble. The defensive errors, simple
0:18:11 > 0:18:20defensive errors. Marko Arnautovic's goal, that's not just yesterday,
0:18:20 > 0:18:25that's continuous throughout the season.39 goals they've conceded.
0:18:25 > 0:18:31The most in the Premier League. One clean sheet in their last 16 games.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34And yesterday they were torn apart on the break time and again. Mark
0:18:34 > 0:18:40Hughes seemed to be saying that, I'm not a relegation manager, the
0:18:40 > 0:18:44players have to realise they're in a relegation battle, as if it's their
0:18:44 > 0:18:48fault, and attitude thing. He's got to do more himself. They didn't look
0:18:48 > 0:18:53as sharp and fit as West Ham yesterday. They are soft at set
0:18:53 > 0:19:01pieces. There are a few basics that are wrong. He hasn't really found
0:19:01 > 0:19:05players that you'd say, yes, he's a first-team certainty. A lack of
0:19:05 > 0:19:10clarity there.They're not playing good football and it's been a
0:19:10 > 0:19:16hangover from last season, where they performed poorly. The Stoke
0:19:16 > 0:19:22board will be in a dilemma over when is the best time to sack him. He's
0:19:22 > 0:19:25been a good manager at Stoke in terms of where they've finished
0:19:25 > 0:19:31previously. Do they show him loyalty and give him the next couple of
0:19:31 > 0:19:35games, which, on paper, we would say are probably winnable? But if you
0:19:35 > 0:19:40sack him over the busy Christmas schedule, it's tough to bring
0:19:40 > 0:19:43another manager in. When is the right time? They can't keep
0:19:43 > 0:19:51conceding goals at the alarming rate they are.I don't think they've ever
0:19:51 > 0:19:56sacked manager...When they conceded goals at this rate? They're in
0:19:56 > 0:20:00trouble.It's an identity thing. Going to Stoke, you know it's a
0:20:00 > 0:20:03tough game. Defensively they'd be difficult to break down, but not any
0:20:03 > 0:20:07more. It's easy. Teams go there and think they'll score goals and I
0:20:07 > 0:20:14think they need to get that identity back.But that's slightly odd.
0:20:14 > 0:20:18They've got a goalkeeper who could well be England's goalkeeper in the
0:20:18 > 0:20:24World Cup. Ryan Shawcross has been a stalwart for them. Bringing could
0:20:24 > 0:20:33zoom in on loan was a good call. They have Joe Allen and Darren
0:20:33 > 0:20:41Fletcher in front of the back four. That is a team... Stoke fans have
0:20:41 > 0:20:44known how disastrous they've been, but you look at that and think that
0:20:44 > 0:20:48ought to be solid, shouldn't be conceding 39 goals.We talk about
0:20:48 > 0:20:54West Ham and Palace but that's not worse than their defences, which is
0:20:54 > 0:21:01since they were organised have stop conceding.People talk about style
0:21:01 > 0:21:05of football. Yesterday it was launching.Do you have any sympathy
0:21:05 > 0:21:11for them yesterday in the fact that they ended up having to chase
0:21:11 > 0:21:14through arguably approver penalty decision?No, because I think...
0:21:14 > 0:21:25LAUGHTER Did I think that Manuel Lanzini went
0:21:25 > 0:21:29down too easily? Absolutely. Do I feel sorry for them for that? Yes.
0:21:29 > 0:21:35But West Ham dominated the game. At 3-0, it could have been for more,
0:21:35 > 0:21:41six or seven.Two years of disastrous transfer window, says
0:21:41 > 0:21:44James, and a steady loss of better players have led us to this. We said
0:21:44 > 0:21:49we don't have the quality to stay in the division. Also, January can't
0:21:49 > 0:21:53come quick enough, we need to back with the funds for the team roster.
0:21:53 > 0:22:00Could spend a fortune. The wrong type of player leaves us wears off.
0:22:00 > 0:22:04The transfer policy hasn't been great from Stoke. Steve Claridge is
0:22:04 > 0:22:10quite fond on 5 Live of comparing Stoke and Southampton and saying,
0:22:10 > 0:22:15look, I can't do this are the top of my head, but something like the net
0:22:15 > 0:22:18spend is 94 million more at Stoke and Southampton, which is partly the
0:22:18 > 0:22:23players that are brought in, but also the fact that when the players
0:22:23 > 0:22:27do come to Stoke, their resale value, nine times out of ten, drops
0:22:27 > 0:22:34off will stopthey are not thinking good enough players. They're picking
0:22:34 > 0:22:37players that lose their value. They've got caught chasing this
0:22:37 > 0:22:46middle ranking signings. You need to spend 40 million to get the bona
0:22:46 > 0:22:48fides top Premier League player now otherwise you're going to be further
0:22:48 > 0:22:54with your scouting. Throwing a bit of money at the players in the
0:22:54 > 0:22:56middle and have got average results. They've regressed and he's been
0:22:56 > 0:23:01there long enough, Mark Hughes. I don't feel sorry for him in terms of
0:23:01 > 0:23:06recruitment. There his choices.I wasn't feel sorry for him. Mark
0:23:06 > 0:23:10says, we all know what will happen at Stoke. Tony Pulis will end up
0:23:10 > 0:23:15back in the dugout. Can you see that happening, Sue?Not at all. I know
0:23:15 > 0:23:19there's been rumours about that but I can't see that. I think they'll
0:23:19 > 0:23:23give him a couple of games. The West Brom game is massive for Mark Hughes
0:23:23 > 0:23:28and Stoke and they need to get a win but it's that performance, as well,
0:23:28 > 0:23:31not just the winning games, they need to perform and not just the
0:23:31 > 0:23:36long ball.If he goes, will they look to a British manager or do you
0:23:36 > 0:23:40think they will do something a bit different and go down, say, the
0:23:40 > 0:23:47whole route when they appointed Marco Silva?They'll go British all
0:23:47 > 0:23:51day long. They like Sam Allardyce, who isn't available. I'm told it
0:23:51 > 0:23:55won't be Tony Pulis but clubs have said that before and stating that
0:23:55 > 0:24:02option. Let's see.What would you do?What would I do? I think Mark
0:24:02 > 0:24:07Hughes has to go, personally, because of the nature of the goals
0:24:07 > 0:24:13they are conceding and they need to stop leaking goals, get someone in I
0:24:13 > 0:24:16don't think they will go back to clueless, so it's irrelevant what I
0:24:16 > 0:24:23think, but I think they will go British.Impressive under David
0:24:23 > 0:24:27Moyes so far, let's get a view on the transformation.
0:24:27 > 0:24:33You can see our workrate has got since he came in. The boys' effort
0:24:33 > 0:24:38is the way they've played football has up to him and in the last couple
0:24:38 > 0:24:43of weeks we got the result. How does that happen? People watching will
0:24:43 > 0:24:47see, how does it change? So markedly? I'm not sure. I've been in
0:24:47 > 0:24:54the game in a long time and I can't give you the answer.Chris Sutton,
0:24:54 > 0:24:59you were saying earlier that one of the first things every new manager
0:24:59 > 0:25:02goes into a club, they criticise the fitness of the players. Doesn't
0:25:02 > 0:25:06matter which club, where it is, but you can see a market difference in
0:25:06 > 0:25:13West Ham under Moyes.I find it remarkable, the difference in the
0:25:13 > 0:25:18players under David Moyes. You hear talk about players having to run and
0:25:18 > 0:25:23there is a difference. The likes of Lanzini... They are working away
0:25:23 > 0:25:30back. I like Slaven Bilic but you have to question what on earth was
0:25:30 > 0:25:35going on at West Ham under his watch this season for the players to
0:25:35 > 0:25:39actually work that much harder.Hang on a minute! Do you not have to
0:25:39 > 0:25:48question the players as well? Absolutely!Where's your personal...
0:25:48 > 0:25:53Are you saying you can't hold the manager accountable? What would be a
0:25:53 > 0:25:56worry for David Moyes further down the line, this group of players are
0:25:56 > 0:26:00working exceptionally hard for him at present, but it's fundamentally
0:26:00 > 0:26:04the same group of players who seem to have downed tools under Slaven
0:26:04 > 0:26:14Bilic. White I think what's David Moyes has done is his comment,
0:26:14 > 0:26:17organising team, nature that defensively they're solid, difficult
0:26:17 > 0:26:23to break down, then he's got those key players playing.From early on
0:26:23 > 0:26:29in the season, unrecognisable. He's a good manager, able to say the
0:26:29 > 0:26:32right thing to the players, get them playing, working harder. As a player
0:26:32 > 0:26:36you have to have some responsibility and say, no matter who I'm playing
0:26:36 > 0:26:43for, I'm going to still work at that intensity and that level.David has
0:26:43 > 0:26:47come in, knowing it might be his last chance, and he's said that
0:26:47 > 0:26:51himself. Alan Irvine, Stuart Pearce, who he thought had retired, it's
0:26:51 > 0:26:59like oceans 11. They've come in with clarity and they're enjoying
0:26:59 > 0:27:03themselves, they're not afraid to tell the players, you're not going
0:27:03 > 0:27:09to get picked. Managers don't do that these days.Sort of a last
0:27:09 > 0:27:14chance saloon mentality with nothing to lose?Yes, they've only got six
0:27:14 > 0:27:19month contracts. If the players don't run, fine, they'll be gone in
0:27:19 > 0:27:22six months. They've come in, gone for it and the players have
0:27:22 > 0:27:31responded to that.Football fans around the world would be gobsmacked
0:27:31 > 0:27:33about this running thing. Most people think it would be given when
0:27:33 > 0:27:38you put your club shirt on, you'll go out, give 100%, but clearly the
0:27:38 > 0:27:42West Ham players want. David Moyes has got them playing tactically.
0:27:42 > 0:27:49When they play against better sides, they stopped the long balls going in
0:27:49 > 0:27:58to Peter Crouch and Mama Rivera Diouf. They didn't want him in, and
0:27:58 > 0:28:01he David Moyes, yesterday singing his name on the way. Fair play to
0:28:01 > 0:28:06David Moyes.Do you think you get money to spend in January?I think
0:28:06 > 0:28:10he well and I think that's one of the attractions for the owners that
0:28:10 > 0:28:17he is given a transfer budget. I think you'll get a little bit.Get
0:28:17 > 0:28:26in touch with us, use the hashtag bbcfootball. The first game this
0:28:26 > 0:28:31afternoon is West Brom against Manchester United at 2:15pm.
0:28:31 > 0:28:36Here we are at the Hawthorns. Miserable day here for the visitors
0:28:36 > 0:28:39Manchester United, but the mood at West Bromwich Albion is much
0:28:39 > 0:28:45improved after that midweek draw at Anfield. The former Albion man,
0:28:45 > 0:28:48Kevin, he's with us. We're hearing good things about the impact Alan
0:28:48 > 0:28:53Pardew is having on the club.Yes, not on the pitch only way you can
0:28:53 > 0:28:57see the results, performances have improved, but around the training
0:28:57 > 0:29:01ground, you feel the club, I wouldn't say needed a change, but
0:29:01 > 0:29:04when a new manager comes in, he brings a different spark and dynamic
0:29:04 > 0:29:09to the training ground and the players have responded to that.
0:29:09 > 0:29:13Bearing the bottom three after yesterday and in the three matches
0:29:13 > 0:29:15in which Alan Pardew have had, they haven't scored. They've only
0:29:15 > 0:29:23conceded one. It said 2-edged sword. You look at David Moyes with the
0:29:23 > 0:29:28balance he's got now at West Ham. Initially, keep those clean sheets,
0:29:28 > 0:29:31click... Give it nice and tight, and once you get those clean sheets,
0:29:31 > 0:29:36built from it. I'm sure Alan Pardew is saying that to the team, not
0:29:36 > 0:29:40scoring goals but at the other end when you're in the relegation
0:29:40 > 0:29:44dogfight, you can become more expansive as a confidence grows. I'd
0:29:44 > 0:29:48have thought that is the message from Alan Pardew.The Manchester
0:29:48 > 0:29:53United, they need to win to close the gap on Manchester City. It's not
0:29:53 > 0:29:58what they're about.Watching City again yesterday, the standard almost
0:29:58 > 0:30:04is now getting better and better. United have to try to live with
0:30:04 > 0:30:09that. That is the problem they're getting and we worry stock Wood
0:30:09 > 0:30:13spoke about West Brom. They have to get a response. Got to try to keep
0:30:13 > 0:30:17pace as much as they can because it looks as if it is moving away from
0:30:17 > 0:30:26them, the way City are playing.One of the must have of the January
0:30:26 > 0:30:29transfer window. The return to Manchester United this morning. He
0:30:29 > 0:30:32went to city in the transfer window. One thing we can say for sure is
0:30:32 > 0:30:36that if he does move he'll cost a lot more than the 6 million West
0:30:36 > 0:30:39Brom paid.Most definitely and what he is he worth to West Brom which
0:30:39 > 0:30:43are not given the fact is, that position therein, we talk about
0:30:43 > 0:30:46clean sheets, they'd rather have Jonny Evans playing for them. Of
0:30:46 > 0:30:50course he'll want to play at a better level, play at teams where it
0:30:50 > 0:30:54will be challenging. What a piece of business it's been for West Brom.
0:30:54 > 0:30:57Selling for a considerable amount. 20 very much. Should be an
0:30:57 > 0:31:01interesting encounter and you can watch West Brom against Manchester
0:31:01 > 0:31:03United tonight on much of the day to.
0:31:03 > 0:31:09Thank you to Steve and Kevin. Let's deal with Jonny Evans. Howieson Zaha
0:31:09 > 0:31:13stirs Jose Mourinho want at Manchester United? I know that
0:31:13 > 0:31:17Bailly is injured but they have still got a fair few.Yes, they
0:31:17 > 0:31:23have. A decent players to bring in but do you think... He's been there
0:31:23 > 0:31:27before... Would they want him to come back? I don't know, I think
0:31:27 > 0:31:32that's quite a difficult one.Is he better than what they've got?That's
0:31:32 > 0:31:38what I was going to say, is a good enough?I'm not so sure he is. You
0:31:38 > 0:31:41know, he is a good Premier League player but if you are West Brom,
0:31:41 > 0:31:46come on, they will not let him go. They might not have a choice if they
0:31:46 > 0:31:50get offered a lot of money.So you think they would risk getting
0:31:50 > 0:31:54relegated and letting him go? Come on, that's just not going to happen.
0:31:54 > 0:31:59The problem for United is their two best centre halves, Bailly and Jones
0:31:59 > 0:32:05are injured, as he better than the other three? He probably is. He has
0:32:05 > 0:32:13character which Mourinho likes but take Chris's point, from West Brom's
0:32:13 > 0:32:17pointed view he must stay if they want to stay up.If there is a
0:32:17 > 0:32:21political point with Mourinho and Evans, he's been critical of
0:32:21 > 0:32:24previous regimes at Manchester United because they have sold
0:32:24 > 0:32:29players who have gone through the ranks, Evans being one, Welbeck
0:32:29 > 0:32:33being another, is it a political point?That would add a bit of spice
0:32:33 > 0:32:40to it from Jose 's pointed view. He is Machiavellian but I don't think
0:32:40 > 0:32:46he would sign a player just to make a point.You just wonder if it is a
0:32:46 > 0:32:49short-term rather than a long-term solution, so whether that's the
0:32:49 > 0:32:55injuries and are they bringing him for that reason?85058,
0:32:55 > 0:32:59#bbcfootball, to put a point to us. You might make Chris sclaff
0:32:59 > 0:33:03depending on your point.You are doing a good job.It's taken me
0:33:03 > 0:33:07about two years to get a smile out of you. You've written about Alan
0:33:07 > 0:33:12Pardew in the Sunday Times -- you might make Chris Laff. He talks
0:33:12 > 0:33:15about he doesn't like to be a manager who tries to snuff out the
0:33:15 > 0:33:19game will stop do you think they will go for it at home to Manchester
0:33:19 > 0:33:23United more than they did at Anfield on Wednesday night which was an
0:33:23 > 0:33:28important point?Yes, I think they will. He sees himself as a gambler
0:33:28 > 0:33:33and a manager who wins big games, he has a healthy self regard, Alan, and
0:33:33 > 0:33:37I think he feels he will be capable of winning. I think he could be
0:33:37 > 0:33:43capable. He does have on paper the players to play the type of
0:33:43 > 0:33:45counterattacking football he wants, it's just whether they are good
0:33:45 > 0:33:49enough. He has strikers that don't score, for example, good
0:33:49 > 0:33:52characteristics but they don't score. That's what we will be
0:33:52 > 0:33:57finding out.Let me start with you, Chris. Do you think it is a squad,
0:33:57 > 0:34:01the West Brom squad, that's quite similar, as in having the players to
0:34:01 > 0:34:05play in the position is that he had at Crystal Palace, but are not as
0:34:05 > 0:34:09good as the players at Crystal Palace? Which is what Jonathan is
0:34:09 > 0:34:14sort of alluding to.I take Jonathan's point. I think it's
0:34:14 > 0:34:20extremely difficult at this stage of the season to go in to a team low on
0:34:20 > 0:34:24confidence and totally change the characteristics and the way this
0:34:24 > 0:34:28team plays. It's going to be slowly slowly. There has not been an
0:34:28 > 0:34:33instant impact. But to change West Brom into an open attacking force, I
0:34:33 > 0:34:39don't think it's going to happen overnight. That's why it's a little
0:34:39 > 0:34:42bit risky him coming out on saying he's going to play this brand of
0:34:42 > 0:34:45football. They haven't scored in three games. It might change today
0:34:45 > 0:34:49but then it may well work in Manchester United's favour if they
0:34:49 > 0:34:53do.They have the players to allow them to be a little bit more of an
0:34:53 > 0:34:57attacking threat than they have.Yes and I was going to say they've had a
0:34:57 > 0:35:01slight improvement if not getting the goals, they are able to play
0:35:01 > 0:35:03through the third switch is completely different to the old
0:35:03 > 0:35:06style of getting the ball at the back and hoofing it forward. They
0:35:06 > 0:35:10are trying to play the style of football but it's going to take time
0:35:10 > 0:35:14for him to instil his style and philosophy. As a player, that's not
0:35:14 > 0:35:18going to happen overnight. I think in time maybe that will happen.
0:35:18 > 0:35:22Whether he will do that today, I'm not too sure.In fairness to Tony
0:35:22 > 0:35:30Pulis he was trying to change things a little bit, he had something
0:35:30 > 0:35:33worked really well but he wanted to try and provide a little bit more in
0:35:33 > 0:35:36the entertainment stakes and it just hasn't worked. Look at Oliver Berg
0:35:36 > 0:35:39and some of those signings, they just haven't really come off --
0:35:39 > 0:35:41Oliver Burke. Pardew has to see if these players are good enough to
0:35:41 > 0:35:45provide a bit more.United will win comfortably today, they have too
0:35:45 > 0:35:51much class for West Brom who are not on form. It is a classic Manchester
0:35:51 > 0:35:55United destabilisation tactic, the alleged interest in Evans just
0:35:55 > 0:36:00before they play West Brom. Do you like that point?Yes, that was good.
0:36:00 > 0:36:05That brought a smile to your face as well. We have spoken about West Brom
0:36:05 > 0:36:09and West Ham, let's Drogba Crystal Palace because under Roy Hodgson
0:36:09 > 0:36:12they have improved markedly, they won 3-0 at Leicester, unbeaten in
0:36:12 > 0:36:18seven, on their best run in the top flight since 1990, Sue Smith, has it
0:36:18 > 0:36:22surprised you? -- let's talk about Crystal Palace.I think so, when he
0:36:22 > 0:36:26came in they had no points and no goals, yes, they have the players,
0:36:26 > 0:36:29so we looked at an experienced manager coming and if you could get
0:36:29 > 0:36:32a tune out of some of those players they could take the step but I
0:36:32 > 0:36:36didn't think it would happen maybe so quickly. I thought yesterday they
0:36:36 > 0:36:40were brilliant. I thought Wilfried Zaha was a different player. I spoke
0:36:40 > 0:36:43about the man management with David Moyes, that's something Roy Hodgson
0:36:43 > 0:36:48does very well. Benteke was the villain after missing that penalty,
0:36:48 > 0:36:51and rightly so. He came back and that's probably the best game I've
0:36:51 > 0:36:56seen him play this season. The fact that he scored which was a bonus, he
0:36:56 > 0:37:00set up Wilfried Zaha. Even his hold-up play was better, it wasn't
0:37:00 > 0:37:03pinging off him which it has done in the past so his overall game was
0:37:03 > 0:37:06very good. You've got to give credit to Roy Hodgson for that.I think he
0:37:06 > 0:37:12is a fantastic coach. I mean, you know, there has been criticism of
0:37:12 > 0:37:17him. As a manager, is he a strong character? No, but he knows how to
0:37:17 > 0:37:21set the team at and the job he has done in such a short space of time
0:37:21 > 0:37:26has been brilliant. They've got that attacking threat in Wilfried Zaha.
0:37:26 > 0:37:29He is a difference maker for Palace. But defensively they look more solid
0:37:29 > 0:37:37and stable.You two as former players, can you both see evidence
0:37:37 > 0:37:39of an actual proper... When we talked about Stoke and their defence
0:37:39 > 0:37:45and maybe there isn't as much evidence of coaching, can you see
0:37:45 > 0:37:49evidence of what he has done on the training pitch when you are watching
0:37:49 > 0:37:57Palace play?I played under Roy at Blackburn for a season the first
0:37:57 > 0:38:00session we did was defensively you are not going to concede a goal by a
0:38:00 > 0:38:06long ball, actually setting players out, pretty basic stuff. And then
0:38:06 > 0:38:10moving further forward throughout the weeks. A lot of 11 versus 11
0:38:10 > 0:38:15function stuff, he went pie in the sky earlier in the season but
0:38:15 > 0:38:18they've gone back to basics with Roy and a coach they can trust. His
0:38:18 > 0:38:24remit was to keep them up. They didn't score goals early in the
0:38:24 > 0:38:27season but it was about getting Wilfried Zaha fit.The interesting
0:38:27 > 0:38:31point on that, Sue, the only time Leicester looked like they were
0:38:31 > 0:38:35going to, or gave an attacking threat, was they tried the ball over
0:38:35 > 0:38:38the top to release Vardy but apart from that there was a disconnect
0:38:38 > 0:38:41between Leicester's midfield and Vardy.Considering Leicester came
0:38:41 > 0:38:45into the game on the back of some good form, it made it an even better
0:38:45 > 0:38:49result for Palace, and they do look organised, you can see the shape, so
0:38:49 > 0:38:53that doesn't happen again overnight, that is a coach who goes in and
0:38:53 > 0:38:56works with his players and sets them up, tells them what he wants. It
0:38:56 > 0:39:00sounds really basic but sometimes that can get missed and he's done
0:39:00 > 0:39:04that well.Have a lot of us had our opinions early in the season ramped
0:39:04 > 0:39:10back down our throats on Hodgson, Allardyce, Moyes, maybe Pardew,
0:39:10 > 0:39:20Claude Puel as well? Robert Syms the Premier League and had a fantastic
0:39:20 > 0:39:24start.Yes, because I think we like a bit of novelty in the media. The
0:39:24 > 0:39:28fact that the clubs go for the same old names drew the criticism of a
0:39:28 > 0:39:31lack of imagination. And maybe it has been a lack of imagination but
0:39:31 > 0:39:35these guys know what they are doing. If you think how precarious football
0:39:35 > 0:39:39management is, and Roy Hodgson has had a 40 year career in it, you've
0:39:39 > 0:39:43got to be pretty decent at what you do to survive that long in a
0:39:43 > 0:39:46precarious job and the same applies to the others.I suppose what it
0:39:46 > 0:39:52does at, and Mark makes the point here, does your panel think Pulis,
0:39:52 > 0:39:55Allardyce, Hughes, Moyes, Pardew merry-go-round will ever end? When
0:39:55 > 0:39:59will managers outside the top Flybe given a chance? As it is working at
0:39:59 > 0:40:06the moment that is a problem for the younger ones -- top flight, be given
0:40:06 > 0:40:09a chance?The younger managers can learn from those experienced
0:40:09 > 0:40:13managers, go and work with them, go and see how they set up their teens,
0:40:13 > 0:40:18how they get these results.Sean Dyche has got everything those other
0:40:18 > 0:40:24guys have got, that's the one that puzzles me -- set up their teams.
0:40:24 > 0:40:28Other managers there would be a risk but not with Sean Dyche.It is the
0:40:28 > 0:40:32issue with the owners, it's not these old guys, if you call these
0:40:32 > 0:40:40guys old.Experience.Yes.Getting the jobs. It's the owners' mindset,
0:40:40 > 0:40:43are they willing to risk on a younger coach with all of the money
0:40:43 > 0:40:46at stake, it's about staying in the Premier League. That's why they go
0:40:46 > 0:40:53for tried and trusted.85058 and #bbcfootball. We have an anonymous
0:40:53 > 0:40:56one here that says, have you any idea how frustrating it is to see an
0:40:56 > 0:41:00animated David Moyes on the touchline at West Ham. As a
0:41:00 > 0:41:03Sunderland fan I think we should demand a refund. Tony, how much of
0:41:03 > 0:41:10the upturn in form for Palace, West Ham and West Brom is from the dead
0:41:10 > 0:41:13cat bounce effect from sacking manager? I presume that just means
0:41:13 > 0:41:19any change in manager might give you a bounce, might do.Yes, it might do
0:41:19 > 0:41:21sometimes you see it happens straightaway and sometimes it takes
0:41:21 > 0:41:27that bit more time. But they have had an impact and that has to be
0:41:27 > 0:41:31down to the managing style, how they manage the players, how they get the
0:41:31 > 0:41:35best out of the players. It's sometimes about getting the best
0:41:35 > 0:41:38players, the players that can win a game on their own, take the game by
0:41:38 > 0:41:42the scruff of the neck, get them playing. If you are scoring goals it
0:41:42 > 0:41:46will lift the rest of the team. And organising, which we have spoken
0:41:46 > 0:41:50about on a couple of occasions in this.Hearts just scored in the
0:41:50 > 0:41:57early game in the Scottish Premiership so it's Hearts 1-0
0:41:57 > 0:42:00Celtic after 25 minutes at Tynecastle. Are you all right,
0:42:00 > 0:42:06Chris?I'm totally impartial. Unbeaten in five, good young
0:42:06 > 0:42:10players, but could Celtic's run be coming to an end?I wasn't saying
0:42:10 > 0:42:16you were impartial but you had your eyes on it.It was a good goal.
0:42:16 > 0:42:22Competitive league that!I know it is, don't accuse me of being
0:42:22 > 0:42:27anti-Scottish football, you do that with enough people as it is. Let's
0:42:27 > 0:42:30just finished. Bournemouth against Liverpool, 4:30pm, you have written
0:42:30 > 0:42:36an article on Mo Salah today. Jurgen Klopp said he needs persuading from
0:42:36 > 0:42:39his scouts to sign him because he doubted his physicality.Yes, said
0:42:39 > 0:42:43he looked at him and wondered if he was too skinny, was the word Klopp
0:42:43 > 0:42:51used I think he might mean small. In 2013-14 they went for him and
0:42:51 > 0:42:53watched 15 other wingers, kept scouting him and didn't see anybody
0:42:53 > 0:42:57as good as Mo Salah so they kept on Klopp, deserve a lot of credit for
0:42:57 > 0:43:01that, but so does he, of course, because what he has done with Mo
0:43:01 > 0:43:08Salah has been fantastic setting him up to play.You can't judge all
0:43:08 > 0:43:10players on height, can you?You are looking at me!
0:43:10 > 0:43:16LAUGHTER You were just next along the line to
0:43:16 > 0:43:20ask the question too, Sue. Don't you get influenced by him, honestly!
0:43:20 > 0:43:26You've got to give Klopp credit for the fact that he came out and said
0:43:26 > 0:43:29we have too praised the scouts for bringing him in. You wondered where
0:43:29 > 0:43:32he would fit in because you looked at the other forward players but
0:43:32 > 0:43:36he's been the first name of the team sheet, the influence he has had,
0:43:36 > 0:43:46he's been absolutely outstanding for Liverpool.His team-mates scored 40
0:43:46 > 0:43:49goals last season playing with Mo Salah. If that stat doesn't get you
0:43:49 > 0:43:52scouted I don't know what will.
0:43:52 > 0:43:54Thanks to Chris, Sue and Jonathan.
0:43:54 > 0:43:56Bournemouth v Liverpool is live on 5 live.
0:43:56 > 0:43:57Highlights on Match of the Day two is on BBC Two tonight.