19/03/2017

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:00:28. > :00:33.Good afternoon and welcome to Match of the Day two Extra. We are on BBC

:00:34. > :00:37.Two, on five live and on the BBC Sport website. With me this

:00:38. > :00:42.afternoon, former Wales and Liverpool striker Dean Saunders,

:00:43. > :00:45.Chief football writer for the Times, Henry Winter, and the Match of the

:00:46. > :00:53.Day commentator Steve Gibson. You can get in touch on Twitter or by

:00:54. > :00:57.text. On the following subjects, we will be asking if it is when and not

:00:58. > :01:03.if for Arsene Wenger. Chelsea close in on the title, are they everything

:01:04. > :01:09.Arsenal are not? And two more goals for Romelu Lukaku, but how much

:01:10. > :01:13.longer will he be an Everton player? Most of the papers focusing on

:01:14. > :01:22.Arsenal, aside from the Ireland England game. The Daily mail

:01:23. > :01:36.Romelu Lukaku's feature at Everton comes down to a question of respect,

:01:37. > :01:40.they say. There is an early kick-off in the Premier League this

:01:41. > :01:44.lunchtime, it is at the Riverside Stadium and it got under way about

:01:45. > :01:48.15 minutes ago, Middlesbrough against Manchester United. Ian

:01:49. > :01:55.Brown. It is still 0-0, but both teams have had good chances. Marcus

:01:56. > :01:58.Rashford was through on goal keeper Victor Valdes but it was a fairly

:01:59. > :02:02.tame effort and the keeper was able to save lay down to his left. We're

:02:03. > :02:05.promised a more enterprising Middlesbrough under Steve Agnew and

:02:06. > :02:09.we've seen signs of that. Gaston Ramirez with a shot at the edge of

:02:10. > :02:13.the penalty area which was turned away at full stretch by David de

:02:14. > :02:16.Gea. Stewart Downing, recalled straightaway by Middlesbrough after

:02:17. > :02:24.the departure of Aitor Karanka, Man United with seven changes but knows

:02:25. > :02:27.Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Paul Pogba and Henrikh Mkhitaryan is only on the

:02:28. > :02:33.bench. No Wayne Rooney in the match day squad. Let's start with Arsenal

:02:34. > :02:36.and Arsene Wenger after their 3-1 defeat at West Brom yesterday. We

:02:37. > :02:39.will talk about the performance in just a moment, but this is what

:02:40. > :02:43.Wenger had to say in the press conference when he was asked about

:02:44. > :02:47.his future. If you announce a decision on your future do you think

:02:48. > :02:51.that will change the attitude of the fans who are protesting? I don't

:02:52. > :03:00.know. Don't worry, I know what I will do in the future. So you will

:03:01. > :03:06.soon know, very soon. Is the uncertainty the main problem here?

:03:07. > :03:10.Those interviews he does, he seems to have been doing them for years

:03:11. > :03:16.and they always seem to be the same. He doesn't say much and he just bats

:03:17. > :03:20.back every question. But I think the pace is gathering and people want to

:03:21. > :03:24.see a James. He's been a great manager over the years and I

:03:25. > :03:27.certainly don't feel comfortable sitting here criticising Arsene

:03:28. > :03:33.Wenger, but it has come to the point where... Why not? Well, looking at

:03:34. > :03:37.it from the outside, when I try to look to see what is going wrong, I

:03:38. > :03:39.think there is a bit of a blame culture and that is what happens

:03:40. > :03:44.with footballers, they never blame themselves. Within the squad, in the

:03:45. > :03:48.dressing room, when you're not getting results, the front players

:03:49. > :03:52.and say there's no service, the midfield players say the back four

:03:53. > :03:55.is too deep, the back four say they are having to go deep because there

:03:56. > :03:58.is no pressure on the ball. They sit in their corners and start blaming

:03:59. > :04:01.each other. Then I think there is a lack of discipline in the camp. When

:04:02. > :04:07.you look at the way they played against Bayern Munich when they went

:04:08. > :04:11.3-1 down, people not their jobs. Yesterday against West Brom, zonal

:04:12. > :04:13.marking. I looked at both the goals they conceded and there were at

:04:14. > :04:18.least eight players not doing their jobs properly. I have had zonal

:04:19. > :04:23.marking with my teams and you have to spend hours and hours correcting

:04:24. > :04:28.players. They have to move a yard. When its man marking, it's quite

:04:29. > :04:32.simple. You marking and nine, you mark number ten. You don't have to

:04:33. > :04:36.spend hours doing it. But when it is zonal marking that certain things

:04:37. > :04:44.that kangaroo. It looked to me as if they just said, you two Mark and you

:04:45. > :04:47.four just do what you want. If there is a blame culture, which I think a

:04:48. > :04:51.lot of people would agree with, certainly when watching the players

:04:52. > :04:55.and how they performed yesterday, is he responsible for allowing the

:04:56. > :04:59.blame culture to develop, would you say, Henry? He's been there 21

:05:00. > :05:08.years. It's not as if he had developed someone else --

:05:09. > :05:12.inheritedsomeone else's players. You could see it in Lee Dickson's tweets

:05:13. > :05:17.yesterday. Everyone knows and they have seen it in previous reasons how

:05:18. > :05:21.Craig Dawson attacks corners. And no one was picking him up. It was

:05:22. > :05:26.embarrassing. When Dawson got his second, three West Brom players...

:05:27. > :05:32.It's very sad with Arsene Wenger but we are certainly moving into the

:05:33. > :05:43.endgame now. When you write, there was curiosity. Then there was

:05:44. > :05:47.admiration with the invincible team. Now he has been overtaken by other

:05:48. > :05:52.coaches who rotates more to keep their squad is fresh. Now the

:05:53. > :05:56.emotion is pity and that is the most worrying thing. You can see pity in

:05:57. > :06:00.supporters and former players who have always backed him, like Thierry

:06:01. > :06:04.Henry. When you have a distinguished manager being pitied, it's only a

:06:05. > :06:08.matter of time. It's all down to Stan Kroenke now do actually

:06:09. > :06:12.appreciate this is his club, he's got to take direction of it and put

:06:13. > :06:20.Wenger alt. His misery. If this is the end, I think it's a lamentable

:06:21. > :06:24.end for Wenger. I feel sad about it. There have been more successful

:06:25. > :06:28.managers, obviously, Sir Alex Ferguson had a greater impact on Man

:06:29. > :06:31.United than Wenger had at Arsenal, great though his impact has been.

:06:32. > :06:36.There's been more charismatic managers. But I think Wenger has

:06:37. > :06:39.been the most influential manager on English football, because he changed

:06:40. > :06:43.English football in a way that other more successful and perhaps more

:06:44. > :06:51.charismatic managers didn't. He started bringing in -year-old

:06:52. > :06:57.-- 15-year-old Spaniards and French players, so not always great for the

:06:58. > :07:01.English team. But he did have a big impact. And for it to end in this

:07:02. > :07:05.way, and it does appear in will end in a bad way with Arsenal failing to

:07:06. > :07:12.Cala vie for the top four, is really sad. When he inherited the back four

:07:13. > :07:15.at Arsenal, Martin Keown, Tony Adams, Lee Dickson, Nigel

:07:16. > :07:17.Winterburn, Steve Bould, their characters were their biggest

:07:18. > :07:22.strengths and they would sort out the marking. They would take control

:07:23. > :07:25.and responsible at the. I don't think they've got any of those kind

:07:26. > :07:30.of players now. Yesterday, you're playing against West Brom. You know

:07:31. > :07:34.Gareth McAuley, Craig Dawson, Jonny Evans score from corners. You know

:07:35. > :07:38.they're going to be coming in. You've got five players stood on the

:07:39. > :07:42.six yard box jumping off two feet with those players, six foot five,

:07:43. > :07:47.coming in and getting a running jump. You've got two players who are

:07:48. > :07:52.allocated to block those runs. And the players he put to block them

:07:53. > :07:59.were Aaron Ramsey blocking McAuley, mismatched... Oxlade-Chamberlain,

:08:00. > :08:03.mismatched against Jonny Evans. And I saw Sanchez there at one point as

:08:04. > :08:07.well. The wrong players marking the wrong type of defenders. Those

:08:08. > :08:11.little things make Arsenal easy to beat. Olivier Giroud should have

:08:12. > :08:15.started in a physical game like that, as much for his physical

:08:16. > :08:19.attacking qualities but also his defensive qualities. Does Arsene

:08:20. > :08:23.Wenger think that way? I think he just thinks we can beat you, they

:08:24. > :08:31.can beat everybody. But sometimes you just have to say, let's be hard

:08:32. > :08:33.to beat, lads, and we can win. He could have been talking about

:08:34. > :08:39.Arsenal, if you think you're going to turn up and not fight, you're

:08:40. > :08:42.going to lose. He could have been talking about Arsenal. Alan Shearer

:08:43. > :08:47.was asked about whether the players are currently playing for Arsene

:08:48. > :08:50.Wenger. There's been a lot of chat from the media and pundits about

:08:51. > :08:55.Arsene Wenger's future. There hasn't been a lot spoken about his players.

:08:56. > :08:59.His players spoke today during that game. Judging by that performance

:09:00. > :09:02.and recent performances, they don't want in in that job. Arsene Wenger

:09:03. > :09:07.would have looked at his players today and ask for a reaction. Said,

:09:08. > :09:12.come on guys, I've been criticised and hammered from pillar to post,

:09:13. > :09:16.give me something today. They lacked heart, they lacked fight, they

:09:17. > :09:23.lacked direction. Every player other than Sanchez I thought was pretty

:09:24. > :09:26.embarrassing. Christian says," Wenger is keeping quiet because the

:09:27. > :09:32.Manuel Pellegrini debacle, City were dreadful after that broke". Another

:09:33. > :09:36.said he is keeping it quiet to minimise the already high media

:09:37. > :09:40.attention. Another says if he is ready to clear out the dead wood and

:09:41. > :09:45.by world-class players, he should stay. If he is going to go, Steve

:09:46. > :09:50.Wilson, why can't he just come out and say yes, I'm going at the end of

:09:51. > :09:56.the season? History said that's not a good idea and you can go right

:09:57. > :10:01.back to Sir Alex Ferguson's first retirement announcement and also

:10:02. > :10:04.Manuel Pellegrini, when we knew he was leaving, performances did. I

:10:05. > :10:07.think that is human nature. Having said that, it does sound like

:10:08. > :10:11.Wenger's announcement is going to come before the end of the season,

:10:12. > :10:19.depending on what your definition of the word soon is. Arsene Wenger is

:10:20. > :10:28.right, remember Jack Nicklaus saying never play yourself, -- never blame

:10:29. > :10:32.yourself, baby equipment, the conditions... The players in that

:10:33. > :10:37.team are just looking after themselves. There is no one who

:10:38. > :10:43.sacrifices themselves to do a defensive job. They don't have any

:10:44. > :10:48.players like that in the team. There aren't many players like that around

:10:49. > :10:52.now, are there? Well, there are. It is recruitment. Why hasn't he signed

:10:53. > :10:56.a Patrick Vieira type character to organise the team for you? They

:10:57. > :11:03.haven't got anybody who was on the pitch at the manager's right arm

:11:04. > :11:09.saying, you do something here, 3-1 down against Bayern Munich with the

:11:10. > :11:12.risk of going 5-1 down and the fullbacks are still going forward.

:11:13. > :11:18.It Patrick Vieira were on the pitch, he would have said, you two stay

:11:19. > :11:21.back and let's lose 3-1. Up until yesterday the players looked to have

:11:22. > :11:25.got off a bit scot-free and that all the blame has been aimed at Arsene

:11:26. > :11:32.Wenger and all the anger aimed at him. If you flip it with the

:11:33. > :11:35.Leicester situation, the last few weeks under Ranieri all the blame

:11:36. > :11:39.was aimed at the players rather than the manager. I think there has been

:11:40. > :11:44.a fair of blame to the players. Granit Xhaka, ?29 million for a

:11:45. > :11:49.defensive midfield player who can't tackle and keeps getting suspended.

:11:50. > :11:51.It comes back to recruitment. Arsene Wenger is meticulous on recruitment,

:11:52. > :11:55.almost to the point of delaying and missing out on individual because he

:11:56. > :12:00.wants to check them over and over again. But he's just recruited

:12:01. > :12:04.badly. 15 years ago, Wenger would have been in and got those Monaco

:12:05. > :12:07.players we saw play so well the other night against Manchester City.

:12:08. > :12:11.Those are the sort of players Wenger would have got at source before

:12:12. > :12:19.people really knew about them. So he is taking his eye off the transfer

:12:20. > :12:25.market. ?42 million... Mesut Ozil, I would get him in the room and said

:12:26. > :12:28.we're playing Bayern Munich, I paid 40 Duminy amounts for you and I'm

:12:29. > :12:34.seriously considering leaving you out. How can that be possible? Can

:12:35. > :12:38.you do that in this day and age? I know the point you're trying to

:12:39. > :12:41.make... Ozil is all right with the ball but when you play against a

:12:42. > :12:45.team better than you and you got to dig in and say that get a result in

:12:46. > :12:50.Bayern Munich against their players who are as good as ours, can he do

:12:51. > :12:53.the other side? But Arsene Wenger doesn't like confrontation. The

:12:54. > :12:57.strong dressing rooms that you played in, there would be managers

:12:58. > :13:00.and players who would tell you if you weren't doing your job. That

:13:01. > :13:05.doesn't happen. But maybe there isn't the right mix of people around

:13:06. > :13:09.Arsene Wenger. But then he is responsible for that! Why is Patrick

:13:10. > :13:13.Vieira developing his career at Manchester City whereas Patrick

:13:14. > :13:17.Vieira's heart, obviously as a player, was at Arsenal. He wanted to

:13:18. > :13:23.stay in London, they could have developed him, but Arsene Wenger

:13:24. > :13:27.doesn't like challenge. Patrick Vieira had pride in his own

:13:28. > :13:30.performance. Patrick Vieira lined up before the game and said, you're not

:13:31. > :13:37.going to get the better of me today. There's not enough of them in the

:13:38. > :13:41.team. West Brom fans will be saying, there were two teams in the game

:13:42. > :13:46.yesterday and we actually won! Let us focus on them. The man who's got

:13:47. > :13:49.their second goal yesterday was Hal Robson-Kanu, 75 seconds after coming

:13:50. > :13:55.on. He joins us now. Good afternoon, thanks for joining us a

:13:56. > :14:03.hi guys, all right. Was it a complete performance? It was a good

:14:04. > :14:08.performance and I think in the end we deserved it. We outwork them and

:14:09. > :14:13.in the end we had better quality in key moments of the game. I know this

:14:14. > :14:18.is a bit odd when talking about Arsenal, but pre-match, did you feel

:14:19. > :14:21.they were there for the taking? Well, I think obviously everyone

:14:22. > :14:28.knows they have been going through a difficult patch. But we try and

:14:29. > :14:32.prepare for each game well so we can give our best and that is what we

:14:33. > :14:36.did on the day. You joined West Brom in the summer. Can you tell us what

:14:37. > :14:41.kind of club you found when you join and what Tony Pulis is like to work

:14:42. > :14:46.with and what qualities he brings out of you? Yeah, obviously I wanted

:14:47. > :14:52.to join a stable club and a club that was progressing. That's what I

:14:53. > :14:56.found. It's a small group in terms of numbers but everyone is together

:14:57. > :15:04.and everyone is working hard and fighting for the same cause. That is

:15:05. > :15:09.what the manager instils and we've been able to apply it going into

:15:10. > :15:13.games and that is why we've had the level of success we've had this

:15:14. > :15:18.season so far. How frustrating to be having to work in tiny little

:15:19. > :15:22.patches of games? You been getting 15, 20 minutes here and there.

:15:23. > :15:28.You're still working to get that starting place in Tony Pulis's team.

:15:29. > :15:33.I want to play games, every professional player wants to play

:15:34. > :15:37.games but it is about focusing on working hard in training. Showing

:15:38. > :15:43.the manager that I am ready and what I can bring to the team. I've done

:15:44. > :15:46.that. As you have seen, gradually I am playing more and more game time.

:15:47. > :15:52.And hopefully as the game 's progress, we will see a bit more of

:15:53. > :15:55.that, too. Everyone talks about West Brom's was great and the set pieces

:15:56. > :15:58.yesterday but there is creativity in that team which we saw at times

:15:59. > :16:04.yesterday. Do you get credit for that? To be honest, we don't pay too

:16:05. > :16:10.much attention, we just focus on our strengths. But we have good quality

:16:11. > :16:17.in the group throughout the pitch. In some games this season, we have

:16:18. > :16:21.shown that. Obviously, with one game it's not easy to win games at that

:16:22. > :16:25.level and you have to work hard. And you also need quality. Can you hold

:16:26. > :16:29.on one second because there is a game going on in the Premier League

:16:30. > :16:33.and there has been a goal at the Riverside, Ian Brown with the

:16:34. > :16:38.details. It had been coming and on the half-hour it is 1-0 to

:16:39. > :16:42.Manchester United. Set up by Ashley Young were playing as a left

:16:43. > :16:48.wing-back for United. It was a gorgeous cross delivered to the far

:16:49. > :16:51.post. Marouane Fellaini rising high do guided inside the near post for

:16:52. > :16:58.his first Premier League goal of the season. Hal Robson-Kanu is with us

:16:59. > :17:02.having scored the second against West Brom for Arsenal yesterday on

:17:03. > :17:09.Match of the Day 2 Extra. Dean wants to bring it back to Wales. Forget

:17:10. > :17:15.West Brom for a minute! Are you fit for next week? Yes, I am fully fit.

:17:16. > :17:19.Training is very intense that West Brom. Obviously, I am featuring in

:17:20. > :17:23.pretty much every game. That I have been there since. Training as well,

:17:24. > :17:27.the intensity has been good and I will be fighting fit. Has it been

:17:28. > :17:30.more intense than anywhere else you have been?

:17:31. > :17:38.It's their work ethic which the manager instils in the group and the

:17:39. > :17:40.players. It is paying dividends. What targets are you setting

:17:41. > :17:44.yourselves for the rest of the season, bearing in mind Tony Pulis

:17:45. > :17:49.always tells us about the 40 point mark and you are past that now, in

:17:50. > :17:54.private has he said your targets for the rest of the season? No targets

:17:55. > :17:58.have been said. But he said he doesn't want anyone to take their

:17:59. > :18:03.foot off the gas. He wants us to maintain that momentum. Now we at

:18:04. > :18:06.that 40 point mark, he once asked to work even harder and that is what we

:18:07. > :18:11.did yesterday and we can do it for the rest of the season. Thank you

:18:12. > :18:16.for coming on, enjoy your afternoon. Cheers, thank you. Hal Robson-Kanu

:18:17. > :18:20.on Match of the Day 2 Extra. I mean this as an economist to West Brom, I

:18:21. > :18:22.am not trying to get players out of that club elsewhere, but do you

:18:23. > :18:27.think there are several players at West Brom that other clubs could

:18:28. > :18:34.well have looked at to do a job for them? Of course. But they have been

:18:35. > :18:40.expertly coached by a manager who, year after year, his attention to

:18:41. > :18:45.detail is so impressive. I am a big fan of Tony Pulis. I really feel he

:18:46. > :18:51.Brondby doesn't get the credit he deserved. He doesn't, does he. -- he

:18:52. > :18:54.probably doesn't get. It was "Pulis out" at the top of this season and

:18:55. > :18:59.he's done it again. We talked about Arsenal and he is the opposite. He

:19:00. > :19:02.would have spent five days on them corners and getting West Brom in the

:19:03. > :19:06.right spot. Players running into the right spaces at the right time.

:19:07. > :19:10.That's the difference. Sam Allardyce is the same. The opposite. Crystal

:19:11. > :19:14.Palace won yesterday without having a shot on goal. Arsenal could do

:19:15. > :19:17.with a bit of that in the game. West Bromwich Albion at eight in the

:19:18. > :19:21.Premier League. I think I am right that if they finished eighth, it

:19:22. > :19:25.would be their highest top-flight finish since 1981. That is

:19:26. > :19:29.extraordinary. They aren't just a set piece team, they have some good

:19:30. > :19:34.footballers in this team. They have some of the best left foot in the

:19:35. > :19:37.league. Coming back to the defensive point, their teams above them, you

:19:38. > :19:42.old team, Liverpool, they could have done with Best at -- Ben Foster,

:19:43. > :19:45.they have been terrific. Look at the wage bill. Look at the facilities,

:19:46. > :19:50.pretty good if you go to the training ground. Tony Pulis does

:19:51. > :19:54.wonders. It was 1000 games early in the season. The nominal and he

:19:55. > :20:01.deserves respect. Lots of social media on Arsenal. He arrives late,

:20:02. > :20:05.he stays late, who would replace him? Steve says that he is there to

:20:06. > :20:10.appease the fans, he has no input in the team. Lack of defence. Trevor

:20:11. > :20:15.says, he needs to go, he offers nothing. Arsenal have conceded 16 in

:20:16. > :20:21.their last four, what is he doing? Get in contact with us. From Arsenal

:20:22. > :20:23.and West Brom to the leaders, 13 points clear at the top of the Gary

:20:24. > :20:37.Cahill's late winner at Stoke. You know you have to face a very

:20:38. > :20:45.strong team. For this reason, it was a physical game. You must be

:20:46. > :20:50.prepared to fight. During the game. I am pleased. I am very glad for my

:20:51. > :20:55.players because they showed me great commitment to always stay in the

:20:56. > :20:58.game with their heads. Now it's important to continue.

:20:59. > :21:06.You mentioned it in the Arsenal chat. They are sort of everything

:21:07. > :21:10.that Arsenal at. Yes, they are. I know this has been talked to death,

:21:11. > :21:17.but I was at the game they lost 3-0 to Arsenal. In September. The change

:21:18. > :21:21.in Chelsea happened with the formation change but it happened

:21:22. > :21:25.almost instantaneously. Which is extraordinary. They didn't seem to

:21:26. > :21:29.need any kind of preparation time. They went from looking like Chelsea

:21:30. > :21:33.of last season, pretty ordinary, with a lot of the kind of problems

:21:34. > :21:39.which Arsenal are experiencing this season, into runaway title winners.

:21:40. > :21:44.It has been a fantastic... You will have interviewed him, Steve. If you

:21:45. > :21:48.talk to him, he is utterly charming. But he has that cold stare in his

:21:49. > :21:53.eyes that you actually... It puts ice in your veins meeting him. From

:21:54. > :21:57.your perspective and a player's perspective, you will fear and

:21:58. > :22:02.respect him. Everyone sees the emotion on the touchline. There is a

:22:03. > :22:06.very calculated and intelligent Italian tactician. A very good man

:22:07. > :22:10.manager. Look at how he handled Diego Costa. Diego Costa, all the

:22:11. > :22:16.Chinese talk, one or two issues on the pitch, he's got him focused. He

:22:17. > :22:20.is channelling his aggression in the right way. He took a kicking

:22:21. > :22:25.yesterday, Costa. I thought yesterday, the first time in quite a

:22:26. > :22:28.long time that at times we saw a bit of the old Costa back, the

:22:29. > :22:32.frustration and getting annoyed. Which, often, this season, certainly

:22:33. > :22:35.in Chelsea games I've seen we haven't seen. But he's kept a lid on

:22:36. > :22:40.it this season. Look around this team. Coming back to the

:22:41. > :22:46.counterpoint to Arsenal, they are individuals and they are taking

:22:47. > :22:49.individual responsibility. Gary Cahill came up to score the winner

:22:50. > :22:51.after a mistake at the penalty. They are leaders. The game against West

:22:52. > :22:55.Ham, they were getting battered at Davit Luis stood up to the tried and

:22:56. > :23:02.Moses stood up. Responsibility takers -- and David Luis. I like

:23:03. > :23:07.watching him. He comes on the TV and talks like a tactical genius with a

:23:08. > :23:10.stare in his eyes. He stands on the side of the pitch as if he wants to

:23:11. > :23:13.have a fight with you and everybody around him. And he celebrates like

:23:14. > :23:17.it's his first game of football ever! And he is like one of the

:23:18. > :23:22.supporters. Must be brilliant to play for. When you speak to him you

:23:23. > :23:26.can't imagine him hanging from the roof of the dugout when they score

:23:27. > :23:31.but he does. Coming off the pitch, celebrating with the supporters.

:23:32. > :23:34.There is an example of a manager seeing what's wrong. The Arsenal

:23:35. > :23:37.game you were talking about, he was almost crying when he was

:23:38. > :23:44.interviewed after the game and they got beat 3-0. It -- you could see,

:23:45. > :23:48.I'm not playing like that any more. Kante and Matic in front and you

:23:49. > :23:52.three get on with it. It properly doesn't say anything to Hazard Pedro

:23:53. > :23:56.or Costa, just get on with it. Solid platform, good goalkeeper. He

:23:57. > :24:00.switched during the game. Ten minutes into the second half. In 35

:24:01. > :24:04.minutes he made the decision he had seen enough and that was the way

:24:05. > :24:10.ahead. He has used very few players this season. And he has stuck to the

:24:11. > :24:15.same group. Next season, when they have Champions League football, I

:24:16. > :24:20.think he is on record, they will have to bring in a good group this

:24:21. > :24:25.summer. And then he has a bigger squad to manage and it is how he

:24:26. > :24:28.does that. They have this thing at Chelsea, Cobham, do you cross the

:24:29. > :24:31.road? They have the Academy on one side, the first team on the other

:24:32. > :24:34.and it is almost a symbolic thing, when you cross the road. That means

:24:35. > :24:38.you are ready to go from the academy. Fantastic academy. You see

:24:39. > :24:41.it, the age groups, they have good players coming through. I am sure

:24:42. > :24:47.coming classic Chelsea fashion, they will go out and buy weather. Maybe

:24:48. > :24:51.another midfielder, maybe a defender. But I hope some of the

:24:52. > :24:55.kids they are developing, I know we says with every Chelsea manager, but

:24:56. > :25:00.Conte has indicated... He said he was 17 when he got a chance as a

:25:01. > :25:02.young player. I hope we see a Loftus-Cheek stepping up and playing

:25:03. > :25:06.more regularly in the first team. They have taken on Nathan Ake, back

:25:07. > :25:11.from Bournemouth. And not played him. Which is really frustrating. As

:25:12. > :25:18.Nathan Ake's development. It looks like Christiansen is coming back

:25:19. > :25:20.from Germany to bolster the three-man defence. Both sides. Get

:25:21. > :25:23.them from over the road and Europe. It makes you wonder if these

:25:24. > :25:28.academies will ever work. How do you get a game for man city as a young

:25:29. > :25:31.player? They go and buy somebody. They buy somebody for 40 million.

:25:32. > :25:36.That is the insecurity of modern management.

:25:37. > :25:40.You say insecurity of modern management but as a manager, you

:25:41. > :25:45.should have one eye on the future and one eye on the near future. Get

:25:46. > :25:48.results right now. But running the club properly, you should have one

:25:49. > :25:52.eye on what is coming in the next five years. But now managers are

:25:53. > :25:56.saying, I will not be here. Most managers might not even get to the

:25:57. > :26:00.near future let alone the future. They say, I will not waste any more

:26:01. > :26:04.of my time on the Academy, watching and 18 games and other 23 games

:26:05. > :26:08.because I will not be here. If you want to know how good Nathan Ake is,

:26:09. > :26:12.have a look at Bournemouth in the six weeks after he left. City have

:26:13. > :26:19.unliveable. You are doing this came later. What kind of City are you

:26:20. > :26:24.expecting -- city - Liverpool. Under pressure City. It does seem to defy

:26:25. > :26:28.all logic. But when you look at Pellegrini last year, we were

:26:29. > :26:33.talking about when the decision was made in February, it was announced

:26:34. > :26:36.the Guardiola was coming. City won a cup. Qualify for the Champions

:26:37. > :26:42.League. Semifinalists in the Champions League. It is possible but

:26:43. > :26:45.what you might fall short of all three of those achievements if you

:26:46. > :26:49.call them achievements. They were not enough to keep Pellegrini in a

:26:50. > :26:53.job. The club has been fashionable Guardiola over a number of years. He

:26:54. > :26:58.was supposed to be the last piece in the jigsaw. Here they are, in a

:26:59. > :27:03.mess, potentially. They have Liverpool, the international break,

:27:04. > :27:08.two huge games, Arsenal and Chelsea, coming up after that with the

:27:09. > :27:12.Manchester derby to be rearranged. These are all games that City might

:27:13. > :27:18.lose. He's managed in different countries. I've played in different

:27:19. > :27:22.countries. And for big clubs. Sometimes, before you even get the

:27:23. > :27:25.game, the opposition have given up. Doesn't happen in the Premier

:27:26. > :27:28.League. The bottom team in the Premier League can beat you at any

:27:29. > :27:32.point if you are not right. They are trying to play up from the back.

:27:33. > :27:37.They are still building. Trying to play out on the back. Managers work

:27:38. > :27:40.it out. Started pressing them. I partly take that point but when

:27:41. > :27:44.Manchester City went to the bottom team in the League 2 or three weeks

:27:45. > :27:48.ago, Sunderland never looks they could beat Manchester City in all

:27:49. > :27:52.seriousness. They don't. They should beat them. They are not surprise

:27:53. > :27:59.results when teams turn Man City over. Especially playing Kolarov at

:28:00. > :28:02.centre-half and use spread the whip of the pitch playing Total Football

:28:03. > :28:07.and body run down the side of him -- the width of the pitch. Not

:28:08. > :28:10.surprising when Vardy get in on goal. Chelsea don't do that. They

:28:11. > :28:16.are tied. They are players in spaces. They don't leave themselves

:28:17. > :28:19.exposed. Arsenal and man city are doing it. Ambushes all over the

:28:20. > :28:23.Premier League means it is more competitive. It provides relentless

:28:24. > :28:29.excitement. The flip side is that you have to give good managers time.

:28:30. > :28:34.Take a player like Lallana. How much Adam Lallana improved? It was always

:28:35. > :28:40.a 70 minute player. Not like weight of not running games. How much has

:28:41. > :28:46.he improved under Jurgen Klopp? Give managers time and they will improve.

:28:47. > :28:48.Look at Raheem Sterling. He has improved no end because of

:28:49. > :28:55.Guardiola. It will take time. We have to be a bit more patient with

:28:56. > :28:59.good managers. Both these managers... Not just looking at

:29:00. > :29:02.today but looking ahead to the summer and next season, do both

:29:03. > :29:06.these managers, and maybe it will happen more at City at Liverpool,

:29:07. > :29:10.who knows, do they need to be back significantly by their boards and

:29:11. > :29:13.owners in the summer transfer window? Because arguably, City could

:29:14. > :29:19.do with at least two new full-backs and another centre-half. Liverpool,

:29:20. > :29:22.at times, this season are having to play Lucas at centre-half and

:29:23. > :29:26.although Miller has had a good season at left-back, is that what it

:29:27. > :29:30.boils down to? I think I am right in saying that one of the papers, it

:29:31. > :29:35.might have been yours, Henry, did a list of the most expensive centre

:29:36. > :29:39.halves in the world ever. They just bought John Stones. I think I am

:29:40. > :29:42.right in saying that quadrant of the right most expensive centre halves

:29:43. > :29:48.belong to Manchester City -- watcher of the most expensive. Possibly

:29:49. > :29:51.four. -- four of the most expensive. They are still playing Kolarov.

:29:52. > :29:55.Still hoping that Kompany will be fit. That is not necessarily

:29:56. > :30:03.Guardiola's fault he has. A lot of dead he needs to get rid of. -- he

:30:04. > :30:07.has a lot. -- a lot of deadwood. The recruitment has been poor. He will

:30:08. > :30:12.address that. Over a number of years it has been poor. Sensational, the

:30:13. > :30:17.front five. He wants to play out from the full-backs. It is Kiki is

:30:18. > :30:21.allowed. All of those full-backs are over 30. -- it is key that he is

:30:22. > :30:24.allowed. It used to be that you had to defend first. Now they are

:30:25. > :30:29.teaching, I think, young players how to play out from the back and they

:30:30. > :30:32.have lost that bit of determination, defend first.

:30:33. > :30:41.We want our English centre backs to be able to play like foreign centre

:30:42. > :30:50.backs can, but it's gone too far. They've forgotten about the

:30:51. > :30:55.findings. -- this forgotten about defending. When John Stones is in a

:30:56. > :31:00.race against Falcao, you can't get beat one against one there. The

:31:01. > :31:06.football comes second. At the moment we've got to be careful where not

:31:07. > :31:14.going to far the opposite way. Playing it out of the back, where

:31:15. > :31:17.would you play Emre Can? I think he is, well, he's obviously a central

:31:18. > :31:21.midfielder but with a defensively minded older player next to him.

:31:22. > :31:26.Everyone looks at Emre Can and thinks he's 28 or 29 because he's

:31:27. > :31:31.quite physically imposing. He looks like he's in his late 20s. I think

:31:32. > :31:36.he's actually just 22. This is a kid who is highly admired in Germany,

:31:37. > :31:41.who was developing -- is developing under Jurgen Klopp. I think he needs

:31:42. > :31:45.to be more consistent. He is a kid playing a difficult role. He spent a

:31:46. > :31:49.lot of his German international career playing as a full-back,

:31:50. > :31:53.actually. I like him, I think he's a good player. But I'm not sure that

:31:54. > :31:56.Liverpool have an outstanding central midfielder. They have quite

:31:57. > :32:00.a few good central midfielders. They are basically short of players.

:32:01. > :32:04.Everyone likes Jurgen Klopp because everyone can see what he's trying to

:32:05. > :32:07.do. They're going in the right direction. They would go second in

:32:08. > :32:19.the league today if they win. He put a bench out the other day, Stuart,

:32:20. > :32:26.Ben Woodburn, Divock Origi, Klaven, Alexander - Arnold. And Man United

:32:27. > :32:30.put a bench out worth ?250 million. Until he can put out a bench as good

:32:31. > :32:34.as that, he's not going to win the league. He needs some help from the

:32:35. > :32:41.board. Robert Lee part of the thing of Liverpool moving out of Melwood

:32:42. > :32:45.and moving the first team into the Huyton Academy area is that they're

:32:46. > :32:48.going to try and get more through from the academy. Liverpool can't

:32:49. > :32:52.compete with Man United and Man City financially at the moment, it's just

:32:53. > :32:57.not going to happen. That is the late afternoon game. The middle

:32:58. > :32:59.game, there are three, 1-0 at the Riverside at half-time at the

:33:00. > :33:03.moment, but we've got Spurs against Southampton which you can hear on

:33:04. > :33:07.five live later. I suppose the big question for Spurs is how they cope

:33:08. > :33:12.without Harry Kane for however long it is going to be? Well, on the

:33:13. > :33:18.evidence of the goal-scorers outside of that team, clearly Harry Kane,

:33:19. > :33:20.quite rightly, gets an enormous amount of praise for his

:33:21. > :33:25.goal-scoring but you look at the other people and song young men as

:33:26. > :33:31.13 goals, Christian Eriksen has nine, Dele Alli has 15 or 16 goals.

:33:32. > :33:35.I think Vincent Janssen is still going to find himself on the bench,

:33:36. > :33:41.however long Harry Kane is out for. They have goals in the team. If it

:33:42. > :33:47.is a five or six week injury, for Harry Kane, then I think they can

:33:48. > :33:51.probably get through it. I was at the match against Millwall when

:33:52. > :33:58.Harry Kane went off early on and Vincent Janssen almost just sort of

:33:59. > :34:01.rows out of his seat and then Son got the nod. A classic centre

:34:02. > :34:05.forward who actually did very well against England at Wembley. But

:34:06. > :34:10.Pochettino obviously doesn't trust him as the number-1 understudy for

:34:11. > :34:15.Harry Kane. But then he did come on and he did break that duck and

:34:16. > :34:19.finally score from open play. So I hope he gets a chance because

:34:20. > :34:27.everyone you talk to at Spurs says he's a lad and works hard. Just one

:34:28. > :34:31.thing on Southampton, being in thing as well with James Ward-Prowse and

:34:32. > :34:34.they showed the clip of when he was 13 and he stood at Southampton's

:34:35. > :34:38.training ground and said my first ambition is to play for Southampton

:34:39. > :34:42.but my long-term future is to play for England. Then they got him back

:34:43. > :34:47.there on his England call-up. It's interesting because he has been

:34:48. > :34:50.highly admired. We can seek him on set pieces. He's got to start

:34:51. > :34:54.showing that he can run games. There's definitely a captain in

:34:55. > :35:02.their but he looks like he will be more moulded in the under 21 team.

:35:03. > :35:05.Let's go to Middlesbrough first at half-time, Ian Brown. Middlesbrough

:35:06. > :35:07.0- one Manchester United. Middlesbrough certainly more

:35:08. > :35:11.progressive and playing higher up the page under Steve Agnew but

:35:12. > :35:16.falling behind on the half-hour. Marvellous cross from Ashley Young

:35:17. > :35:19.headed in by Marouane Fellaini at the far post. Marcus Rashford has

:35:20. > :35:23.troubled Middlesbrough with his pace but his finishing as the North will

:35:24. > :35:30.stop Middlesbrough's best effort came from Gaston Ramirez, saved by

:35:31. > :35:37.David de Gea. Dundee against Celtic. This could have been a tidal

:35:38. > :35:40.celebration but Aberdeen inconveniently beat Hearts yesterday

:35:41. > :35:46.for Celtic, so it has been postponed for now. For the moment and even

:35:47. > :35:50.game but Stuart Armstrong showing why he is in the Scotland squad,

:35:51. > :35:55.with a dipping free kick that only just skimmed the crossbar. 0-0.

:35:56. > :35:59.Let's talk about Romelu Lukaku. Everton beat Hull 4-0 yesterday,

:36:00. > :36:05.maybe a slightly flattering scoreline for Ronald Koeman's died

:36:06. > :36:08.after Hull were reduced to ten men, Tom Huddlestone being sent off. Lots

:36:09. > :36:13.of discussion about whether Lukaku will stay or go. Mino Raiola, his

:36:14. > :36:16.agent, had said earlier in the week he was 99.9% certain to stay and

:36:17. > :36:20.then there was an interview with Lukaku when he said he was uncertain

:36:21. > :36:28.about his future at Everton. Let's hear from Leon Osman, former Everton

:36:29. > :36:33.midfielder. I know Rom, I played with him. I always try and find the

:36:34. > :36:36.positive in it and try and think of exactly what he's done, but

:36:37. > :36:41.regardless of any of that, his thoughts there should have been done

:36:42. > :36:44.in-house. If he felt like that, he should have been going to speak to

:36:45. > :36:48.the manager about it and expressing his concerns and doing it that way.

:36:49. > :36:53.By coming out into the press and doing it publicly, it's not a good

:36:54. > :36:58.message for the club, it makes it sound like things aren't quite going

:36:59. > :37:03.right. It makes him feel like he's looking for a move away as well.

:37:04. > :37:08.He's trying to stir the pot and look that way. That's the way it seems. I

:37:09. > :37:10.know you're a former Liverpool striker but if Romelu Lukaku were

:37:11. > :37:14.going to ask you for advice about what he should do, what would you

:37:15. > :37:21.say to him? Keep your mouth shut! Number-1. All he's done is wind his

:37:22. > :37:24.team-mates up, because all his team-mates will be thinking, who do

:37:25. > :37:28.you think you are? We keep putting the ball through for you. I know

:37:29. > :37:31.you're a good finisher but we keep supplying you with the ammunition.

:37:32. > :37:35.All the supporters will be thinking, it's like getting divorced, for

:37:36. > :37:40.Everton fans. He's their best player and he's come out and said he wants

:37:41. > :37:43.to leave. They take that the heart. The manager is now under pressure

:37:44. > :37:47.because he has got to answer questions about it. If he wants to

:37:48. > :37:51.leave, just keep it to yourself and tell your agent to get on with it

:37:52. > :37:55.and concentrate on your football. At I don't understand, now is not the

:37:56. > :38:00.time to leave Everton. They are on the rise and they could catch

:38:01. > :38:04.Arsenal. They've got a good manager. 50 grand a week, Henry. Well, I

:38:05. > :38:08.understand it... It's interesting, you talk to people about Lukaku. He

:38:09. > :38:12.is not driven solely by money. His agent might be. But he is thinking

:38:13. > :38:17.about playing in the Champions League and I can understand that

:38:18. > :38:20.from eight career perspective. They've got a wealthy person who has

:38:21. > :38:25.come into the club, the new owner. You look at the players they have

:38:26. > :38:28.wrought in, young and vibrant. They are actually creating chances for

:38:29. > :38:34.him and at some point they're going to have a new stadium. It seems a

:38:35. > :38:38.strange time to leave. You were there yesterday. I was there

:38:39. > :38:41.yesterday and in fact the reaction to Lukaku from the fans I thought

:38:42. > :38:46.was impressive, there was no negativity at all and obviously he

:38:47. > :38:49.scored his two late goals and was a lot of love going on. But the future

:38:50. > :38:54.of Everton has never been brighter, or not for a very long time. Not

:38:55. > :38:57.only because of the new money which has come into the club which is very

:38:58. > :39:00.important, but also because of the young players they have at the club.

:39:01. > :39:07.Tom Davies is an exceptional prospect. Dominic Calvert-Lewin

:39:08. > :39:10.scored yesterday. The one I think is, I've only seen him play for

:39:11. > :39:14.about an hour and I think it was against Bournemouth and he was in

:39:15. > :39:20.station, was adamant look on. That weekend Gabriel Jesus made his

:39:21. > :39:29.Manchester City debut and I didn't watch his debut live, but I watched

:39:30. > :39:33.Lookman. Of the two on that day, Lookman looked the better player!

:39:34. > :39:37.There is an example of why he's done the wrong thing because I've just

:39:38. > :39:40.spent 30 seconds talking about him upsetting the fans and team-mates

:39:41. > :39:44.and his manager when I should have spent 30 seconds saying how well

:39:45. > :39:47.he's playing and how good his finishing has been. Because he is

:39:48. > :39:52.playing out of his skin and he looks unstoppable, both feet, calm when he

:39:53. > :39:56.finishes, brilliant. I think it's nine in six that he's scored now and

:39:57. > :40:02.23 for the season, something like that. He's done it 34 years running,

:40:03. > :40:05.scoring 20 plus. You don't have to say anything. If you're a striker, I

:40:06. > :40:10.played in his position, if you're scoring goals, people come to you.

:40:11. > :40:13.You just sit there and keep scoring and somebody knocks on your door.

:40:14. > :40:20.And then you don't go around upsetting everyone. And often that

:40:21. > :40:24.with Romelu Lukaku seems, we often find negatives when talking about

:40:25. > :40:27.Romelu Lukaku, I don't mean us specifically but the media in

:40:28. > :40:31.general, I can't think of a player where people talk more about what he

:40:32. > :40:34.can't do rather than what he can do. I think there's a lot of celebration

:40:35. > :40:39.of what he can do. We see it every time he picks the ball up. You've

:40:40. > :40:42.only got a look at the goal-scoring stats, the consistency, the minutes

:40:43. > :40:46.on the pitch. This whole thing about, as he upset the players? He's

:40:47. > :40:53.a pretty popular as an around Finch farm and Goodison Park as well. He's

:40:54. > :41:03.a very likeable individual and a lot of the interviews this week were on

:41:04. > :41:06.the back of Kick It Out events. He does great work for them and Everton

:41:07. > :41:12.do fantastic work in the community and he is a big part of that. He's a

:41:13. > :41:18.fantastic individual. But if I'd heard what he said, I would say,

:41:19. > :41:22.what are you doing? It's not his place. There's people who run the

:41:23. > :41:25.club, you're just a player. There's people above you and above the

:41:26. > :41:29.manager who decide what money we spend and who we get in. You can go

:41:30. > :41:35.in the dressing room and open the door and say the manager, what are

:41:36. > :41:38.we doing next year? Are we going to sign some good players and try and

:41:39. > :41:44.win the league? You wanted to say that but you don't want him to come

:41:45. > :41:46.out publicly. He did not -- it did not feel at Goodison yesterday as

:41:47. > :41:51.though there was any change in the relationship between the and

:41:52. > :41:55.supporters and the player or his team-mates and the player. I would

:41:56. > :41:58.love him to stay at Everton, I would love him to stay at Everton. Your

:41:59. > :42:05.team are playing great by the way, at the minute. Fantastic football.

:42:06. > :42:10.At home, unbelievable. Unbelievable at home at the moment. You think

:42:11. > :42:16.they will go the rest of the season unbeaten West to mark at home. They

:42:17. > :42:22.could win all their remaining home games, even Chelsea at home. The one

:42:23. > :42:26.game they conceded, against Bournemouth, they scored six.

:42:27. > :42:32.They've scored 22 goals in those six games and let in three. At home,

:42:33. > :42:37.they are about as tough as it gets. Do you think he would get a better

:42:38. > :42:40.platform for his own skills anywhere else? If Diego Costa stays at

:42:41. > :42:45.Chelsea and they play the same system and he goes to Chelsea, he is

:42:46. > :42:48.just setting into the -- stepping into the shoes of Michy Batshuayi,

:42:49. > :42:53.which at the moment doesn't look like a good place to be. Given the

:42:54. > :42:56.length remaining on the contracts, they have also got Ross Barkley to

:42:57. > :43:00.deal with at Everton. He is having a terrific season. That comes back to

:43:01. > :43:05.great man management by Ronald Koeman. Human challenged Ross

:43:06. > :43:11.Barkley and said, you've got so much skill, go and deliver it on a more

:43:12. > :43:15.consistent basis. Berkeley is back in being the squad now, a good

:43:16. > :43:19.reflection on Combe and's qualities. Crazy time to leave Everton. But

:43:20. > :43:22.people are also talking about Ronald Koeman being attracted away. We're

:43:23. > :43:27.not absolutely certain he is going to be the Everton manager at the end

:43:28. > :43:30.of the season. That could be a factor. Combe and's career would

:43:31. > :43:34.suggest he is the kind of manager who always has half an eye on the

:43:35. > :43:39.next move. But despite all that, it was very positive at Goodison! I

:43:40. > :43:43.enjoyed it and they are playing exceptionally well. Thank you very

:43:44. > :43:47.much Steve and Henry and Dean. Steve dominating on Manchester City

:43:48. > :43:56.Liverpool later when we will also show Spurs and Southampton and

:43:57. > :43:58.Middlesbrough and Man United. Two commentaries on Five Live later this

:43:59. > :44:18.afternoon. We will see you He believes himself to be

:44:19. > :44:21.your equal.