:00:29. > :00:34.Good afternoon, welcome to Match of the Day 2 Extra, we are on BBC Two
:00:35. > :00:42.and the BBC sport website this lunchtime. In the company of Martin
:00:43. > :00:50.Kiang, Wes Brown, and John Cross. If you want to get in touch, you can
:00:51. > :00:55.across social media and drop us text. Over the next 45 minutes, this
:00:56. > :01:00.is what we will discuss. Swansea stunning Liverpool and moving off
:01:01. > :01:04.the bottom of the table with the win at Anfield. Manchester City less
:01:05. > :01:08.than impressed with the officials. Wayne Rooney becoming Manchester
:01:09. > :01:13.United's all-time leading scorer at Stoke. Later today Chelsea can
:01:14. > :01:19.increase their lead at the top with a win over Hull, and updates from
:01:20. > :01:22.Saint Mary 's, the only game where it is currently goalless between
:01:23. > :01:26.Southampton and Leicester. As far as the newspapers are concerned this
:01:27. > :01:29.morning, the Sunday Express saying Jurgen Klopp was critical of his
:01:30. > :01:41.team's defending yesterday. The Sunday Mirror, one of several
:01:42. > :01:47.papers to go with Wayne Rooney's record-breaking goal for Manchester
:01:48. > :01:52.United. We will start at Anfield, Swansea beat Liverpool by 3-2,
:01:53. > :01:59.Liverpool 's first home defeat in over a year, and here is the Swansea
:02:00. > :02:04.manager. It is a fantastic result for us, it wasn't a game we were
:02:05. > :02:11.expected to win. There are games this season which are must wins and
:02:12. > :02:15.that goes down as a big bonus for us. What does that do now to
:02:16. > :02:20.confidence in the dressing room, to believe collectively? Going back to
:02:21. > :02:24.the start of the week, if you put the effort in and you focus on the
:02:25. > :02:28.training ground, execute the plan to the best of your ability and always
:02:29. > :02:38.work as a team, then anything is possible. Where is it -- is it over
:02:39. > :02:43.exaggerating to say it is the kind of result that can change a season?
:02:44. > :02:47.Anyone playing away at Liverpool, it is very difficult and that result,
:02:48. > :02:55.considering they are in the bottom three, is massive. I watched the
:02:56. > :03:00.game, want to get stuck 2-2 I'm thinking there is only one winner
:03:01. > :03:06.here. He has come in, sorted it out, they have a plan and I think they
:03:07. > :03:14.have gone into the game... You can see, the way they defended I thought
:03:15. > :03:18.it was brilliant myself. They went 2-0 ahead, Liverpool are always
:03:19. > :03:23.going to come back but they got the winning goal. I wondered about the
:03:24. > :03:31.fact that they were 2-0 up, it came back to 2-2, then they went to 3-2,
:03:32. > :03:36.and if the manner of the victory is as important as the points itself.
:03:37. > :03:41.Definitely, it is all about belief and that will help to establish some
:03:42. > :03:45.belief. You can win at Anfield, you can most win anywhere. You want
:03:46. > :03:48.results to back up the messages you are giving the team so that will
:03:49. > :03:55.potentially turn their season around. But with -- we have seen it
:03:56. > :04:00.once before so we will have to see if they can build on this. He has
:04:01. > :04:06.players who can turn the games around, Sigurdsson is an outstanding
:04:07. > :04:10.player, and others and he has the tools to turn it around but he's a
:04:11. > :04:14.young manager. He didn't have a great time at Derby, whether that
:04:15. > :04:20.was to do with the owners or his results so I think they've got a
:04:21. > :04:23.good one. With regards to the confidence, we were talking before
:04:24. > :04:28.we came on air, I was at Swansea last week and for the last half-hour
:04:29. > :04:33.you could argue they were the better side against Arsenal. When they
:04:34. > :04:38.conceded the second goal, they conceded two own goals, and after
:04:39. > :04:41.that you could see them deflating so confidence, as it would be at the
:04:42. > :04:46.bottom of the table, has been a problem. It has been the issue, and
:04:47. > :04:51.I would think they would look back on yesterday and think the biggest
:04:52. > :04:56.thing about that result is having lost the two goal lead, to be pegged
:04:57. > :05:02.back to 2-2, you worry about your team's mentality from then on but
:05:03. > :05:06.then they go for it again and I think that is fantastic for their
:05:07. > :05:10.confidence. It might be a season defining result for them because it
:05:11. > :05:16.might give them the belief to really push on. I know he wasn't in charge
:05:17. > :05:19.that game, but they won at Crystal Palace with Clement in the stands.
:05:20. > :05:23.They got thrashed by Arsenal but it hasn't been too bad of an
:05:24. > :05:30.introduction in terms of results for Clement. Psychologically you wake up
:05:31. > :05:39.this morning, you are out of the bottom three and you can build on
:05:40. > :05:42.it. Because it is... Wes has been there with Sunderland, it wears you
:05:43. > :05:46.down, you cannot get out of the bottom three, it gives you a massive
:05:47. > :05:53.boost. Is it easier away from home when you are in a relegation battle?
:05:54. > :05:57.I'm not saying go to Anfield. It was easier to play against the bigger
:05:58. > :06:02.teams because nobody was expecting anything. You go out there and you
:06:03. > :06:05.play, you are more relaxed. We seemed to get results when we were
:06:06. > :06:11.at Sunderland against the bigger teams for that reason. The teams
:06:12. > :06:19.around us we struggled against. It was very weird. Was it a different
:06:20. > :06:24.feeling from the fans as well? Did they expect less? Yes, probably. You
:06:25. > :06:30.forgot about the whole situation and just went and played. We had good
:06:31. > :06:33.players but the confidence between the team wasn't there and then when
:06:34. > :06:40.you play the bigger teams it comes out in new. You can relax and get
:06:41. > :06:47.results. On Liverpool, when they missed Adam Lallana earlier in the
:06:48. > :06:55.season, they were talking about the problem with that, then missing
:06:56. > :07:03.Mane, does the fact their squad isn't big enough at the moment? Yes,
:07:04. > :07:07.I think they particularly miss Mane because he's made such a difference
:07:08. > :07:12.with his direct running, his goal threat, the opportunities he
:07:13. > :07:17.creates. He also, in the way he plays, allows Adam Lallana to be
:07:18. > :07:21.deeper and he makes things happen the Liverpool so it's almost like
:07:22. > :07:24.they are missing things on two fronts but you are right, it's
:07:25. > :07:29.likely highlight the issue about the squad. The defending on the Ponzi
:07:30. > :07:33.goals will give Jurgen Klopp nightmares and that is perhaps still
:07:34. > :07:37.that frailty so the depth in the squad and perhaps dealing with
:07:38. > :07:39.crosses and the area of threat will be his biggest concern if he's going
:07:40. > :07:45.to try and maintain the title challenge. A massive shock, if you
:07:46. > :07:51.are lovable you've got to win that game. Chelsea not even playing
:07:52. > :07:59.yesterday. They are in the hotel, the sun lounges are out, it's
:08:00. > :08:04.fantastic news. I wouldn't have had the sun lounges out in London
:08:05. > :08:08.yesterday, it was very cold! It is, you can win the league not actually
:08:09. > :08:15.playing. You've got to put them under pressure. Liverpool had a
:08:16. > :08:24.massive opportunity yesterday and that -- let that slip. It is a big
:08:25. > :08:30.result. Mane is one of the best players for me. He makes things
:08:31. > :08:34.happen. As a Liverpool fan you might not say he's my best player, but I
:08:35. > :08:38.think he's the difference this season when he has come in. They've
:08:39. > :08:45.struggled over the last three or four games. As you all know, when
:08:46. > :08:51.you are used to winning championships, those games you are
:08:52. > :08:57.struggling in, you just need to get a win. Particularly if you can get
:08:58. > :09:03.it back to 2-2. Yes, as I said, there's only one winner and it
:09:04. > :09:08.didn't happen. You can play well for three or four weeks, get a draw,
:09:09. > :09:14.when you play bad you want to win. We have got Southampton Leicester on
:09:15. > :09:21.the screen just out of the camera shop. It is lovely and sunny there
:09:22. > :09:28.so we might be able to get an update from the sun lounge! It is goalless,
:09:29. > :09:35.it has been a bright start of the game. Southampton have a decent
:09:36. > :09:41.chances, Nathan Redmon picked out from seven yards out, he went over
:09:42. > :09:45.the bar. Treadmill on the right-hand side of the area, shot saved by
:09:46. > :09:58.Schmeichel down to his left hand side. One moment the Leicester on
:09:59. > :10:01.the counterattack, but the shot was saved. Southampton have lost their
:10:02. > :10:09.last four Premier League games, Leicester have one one of their last
:10:10. > :10:21.six and just five points off the bottom. -- won one. It is Manchester
:10:22. > :10:27.City against Spurs. An equaliser came moments after Andre Mariner
:10:28. > :10:33.didn't give a penalty for Kyle Walker pushing Raheem Sterling.
:10:34. > :10:38.Let's hear from Pep Guardiola. We are just watching it again, the
:10:39. > :10:43.push on Raheem Sterling, what are your feelings on that? The first
:10:44. > :10:50.question is on the referee? This is the BBC, prestigious, to talk about
:10:51. > :10:55.the football, not the referee? It's just because we saw that then, I
:10:56. > :11:01.wondered what your reaction was. Let's go back to the performance of
:11:02. > :11:05.your team then, what I thought overall of the performance? They
:11:06. > :11:16.made outstanding performance so it is a pity. We cleared more chances,
:11:17. > :11:20.we conceded few. The right decisions, the right moments, always
:11:21. > :11:23.against, and of course you have to score goals. We created so many
:11:24. > :11:31.chances but we were not able and after that with the top teams like
:11:32. > :11:39.Tottenham, so again, that is impossible to make something and we
:11:40. > :11:47.create eight or nine chances in Everton today, I don't know how many
:11:48. > :11:50.book a lot. It is impossible. Pep Guardiola with Guy Mowbray, and we
:11:51. > :11:53.will talk about the penalty after we had back to Saint Marys where there
:11:54. > :12:00.has been the first goal of the afternoon. Yes, a really good finish
:12:01. > :12:06.from James Ward, a curling shot for Southampton into the left-hand
:12:07. > :12:09.corner and they are leading 1-0. Martin, you must have some sympathy
:12:10. > :12:13.with Pep Guardiola after yesterday's performance and the lack of penalty
:12:14. > :12:17.being given. Without a doubt, that is where you want the officials to
:12:18. > :12:22.be, Raheem Sterling is working hard to stay on his feet. If he'd gone
:12:23. > :12:27.down it would have got a penalty and the referee has got to read that
:12:28. > :12:33.situation. We have all done it as defenders, you nudge the striker,
:12:34. > :12:43.hope to get away with it. Slightly more than a nudge. Definitely, the
:12:44. > :12:48.assistance should have picked up on it. Yes, he has sort of been
:12:49. > :12:53.punished himself for staying on his feet so in that sense he was very
:12:54. > :13:04.unlucky and that's why the referees have got to do a little bit more, I
:13:05. > :13:09.think. City I think bossed the game, but Tottenham getting a draw, and
:13:10. > :13:13.they can only go away feeling happy about the situation. We are in a
:13:14. > :13:19.very old situation, aren't we, with footballers and referees at the
:13:20. > :13:23.moment. Root hollered alluded to it on Match of the Day last night that
:13:24. > :13:27.referees will respond to how players react rather than what they may see
:13:28. > :13:33.as regards to the actual foul. Howard Webb on Twitter last night
:13:34. > :13:42.said that the ridiculous claim by Ruud Hullit, but referees react on a
:13:43. > :13:47.lot of incidents with regards to how the aggrieved party reacts. Yes, and
:13:48. > :13:54.I felt a point last night was valid. Early in his career, Raheem Sterling
:13:55. > :13:59.has taken criticism the going down too easily. He's trying to be
:14:00. > :14:04.honest, trying to play. It was just knocked off balance at the crucial
:14:05. > :14:08.moment as he hits the shops, so what incentive is there for him to be
:14:09. > :14:14.honest to try to be as honest as he can, stay on his feet? If he goes
:14:15. > :14:19.down and dives, he basically gets a penalty. For me, Andre Mariner has
:14:20. > :14:23.not kept up with the plague. I think he will be disappointed when he sees
:14:24. > :14:30.it again because it is a howler and it's basically a game defining
:14:31. > :14:35.howler as well because it is just the rules of football dictate that
:14:36. > :14:38.Tottenham were always going to go up the other end, you didn't expect
:14:39. > :14:43.quite so quickly, and equalise and punish them. Visit one of those
:14:44. > :14:47.situations where you needed to have played the game. I don't want to
:14:48. > :14:52.wave the game at referees really, but if you have played the game you
:14:53. > :14:59.know that this situation in which it is a foul. I think that is harsh on
:15:00. > :15:02.professional referees. Should we be getting referees in younger though?
:15:03. > :15:05.We are seeing a lot of penalties lately where the player gets his
:15:06. > :15:09.foot there to be fouled and you know what they are doing because you
:15:10. > :15:13.might have tried to do it yourself. It is difficult to pick that out,
:15:14. > :15:19.practice helps are free to do it, but... We have seen that so often
:15:20. > :15:24.over the last ten years of players leaving their foot there to be hit
:15:25. > :15:28.by the defender that in this era of professional referees, surely they
:15:29. > :15:33.should be knowing that's happening. Secondly, if you follow your logic,
:15:34. > :15:43.why are you sitting next to me? Why are you not there,?
:15:44. > :15:49.To be in the referee system, I would have had to have started halfway
:15:50. > :15:55.through my football career. But if a scheme was in place to fast-track
:15:56. > :15:58.you? If I had been a high-profile player, it might have been
:15:59. > :16:02.difficult. I would have been interested. I went on a referee
:16:03. > :16:07.course and had a look at it. It is harder than it looks. But I wanted
:16:08. > :16:15.to get some idea of how difficult it really was. One thing that annoyed
:16:16. > :16:20.me was that curly finger, come here, to book a player. The first thing I
:16:21. > :16:31.did when I sent someone off was to do except what the referees had done
:16:32. > :16:34.to me. Players' reactions, if you win a ball as a centre-half and the
:16:35. > :16:40.striker you win the ball stays on his feet and 30 seconds later, in a
:16:41. > :16:44.similar tackle, that striker then falls over, do you think you are
:16:45. > :16:51.more likely to concede a free kick for the second one that the first
:16:52. > :17:00.one? Yeah, 100%. It is difficult for the referee, but that is a very big
:17:01. > :17:07.part of the game. If he goes down, he gets a penalty. They just need to
:17:08. > :17:17.get that bit right. The fouls in the middle of the park, OK. But the big
:17:18. > :17:23.decisions need to be sorted out. I understand why City are not happy
:17:24. > :17:26.this morning. There is huge pressure on these referees. I don't know what
:17:27. > :17:32.the referee does between now and the next match. Does he go and referee
:17:33. > :17:35.and under 23 games? Get his sharpness back again, rebuild his
:17:36. > :17:40.confidence? Or do they just drop him into the next match? The bigger
:17:41. > :17:45.picture is, it is neither the referee's fault nor players' fault,
:17:46. > :17:51.it is the game's fault that we are in a situation at the moment like
:17:52. > :17:54.this. Well, so much of it is depicted by the player's reaction.
:17:55. > :17:58.It is harsher on referees to say that they don't get it because they
:17:59. > :18:06.have not played the game and they don't understand. Generally, when a
:18:07. > :18:12.mistake is made, why don't we castigate the player who has dived?
:18:13. > :18:16.But the general consensus is, let's get at the referee because he has
:18:17. > :18:20.made the mess up. No. Get at the player who has dived. That is who
:18:21. > :18:26.should be openly criticised. That is what annoys me. Also, the goal-line
:18:27. > :18:29.technology has been such a success. It is black and white as a science.
:18:30. > :18:33.You can tell if it has crossed the line. You can't obviously do that
:18:34. > :18:41.with subjective penalty decisions like this, but giving video
:18:42. > :18:46.technology to referees gives you a better chance. It is still not going
:18:47. > :18:50.to be 100%, but I can understand Guardiola's frustration. I don't
:18:51. > :18:57.like his interview technique! It was perfectly fair of Guy Mowbray to
:18:58. > :19:05.ask. You generally throw them a general question about the game, but
:19:06. > :19:08.it was the only question. The whole of this discussion negates the fact
:19:09. > :19:13.that that was one of City's better performances. At half-time, they
:19:14. > :19:22.could have been at least 3-0 up. They created chance after chance. It
:19:23. > :19:29.doesn't negate what was City's strong response to a real thrashing
:19:30. > :19:32.by Everton. They worked hard pressed hard. Tottenham will admit that it
:19:33. > :19:35.was one of their poorest performances of the season. So it is
:19:36. > :19:42.as much about their resilience to get something the game. Manchester
:19:43. > :19:48.United dropped points at Stoke, finished 1-1. They need a late
:19:49. > :19:52.equaliser from Rooney. He got his 250th goal for Manchester United,
:19:53. > :19:56.which makes him the club's all-time record goal-scorer, going past Bobby
:19:57. > :20:00.Charlton. This was what he said after the game. When you sign for a
:20:01. > :20:05.club, you realise how important he is to the football club. Surpassing
:20:06. > :20:12.him today is something I had never even thought of. So I am delighted
:20:13. > :20:22.that I have the utmost respect for Sir Bobby. He came after the game
:20:23. > :20:29.and congratulated me. So he is pleased and it is a great honour for
:20:30. > :20:32.me. Sir Bobby Charlton said he was disappointed to lose the record, but
:20:33. > :20:37.glad it had gone to Wayne Rooney. You know him well, Wes. What do you
:20:38. > :20:43.think it means to him? It is brilliant. When you sign for a club
:20:44. > :20:49.like Manchester United at a young age, he would never have thought
:20:50. > :20:58.this achievement was possible. When this 31 now -- Wayne is 31 now. To
:20:59. > :21:11.break that record, even in this time, is remarkable. It is
:21:12. > :21:15.well-deserved. He is not even a regular at the moment. Do you think
:21:16. > :21:20.he has adapted to that? He has done a perfect. He will not be happy
:21:21. > :21:26.about it, but he has adapted to it. He is the captain of the football
:21:27. > :21:29.club and in his head, he has sorted that out perfect. He obviously wants
:21:30. > :21:34.to play every game, because I know the sort of character he is, but he
:21:35. > :21:41.has adapted to it well and he came on yesterday and got a draw for the
:21:42. > :21:44.boys. It is fantastic. As lots of people are pointing out, Martin, it
:21:45. > :21:48.is not the fact that he broke the record, it is the fact that it was
:21:49. > :21:52.the ball in the back of the net and he wanted to get the ball back
:21:53. > :21:57.rather than celebrate. And what a goal. He was aiming for a small area
:21:58. > :22:01.from that distance. There is a lot more to offer from Wayne Rooney, and
:22:02. > :22:04.I don't believe he should settle for sitting on the bench. That fire is
:22:05. > :22:10.still burning in his belly, you can see it. He has mature brilliantly
:22:11. > :22:14.dealt with the situation. Can he do it at Manchester United? He's 31.
:22:15. > :22:19.There are players at the team who are older and doing well. I don't
:22:20. > :22:23.see why he can't do more at Manchester United. But he might not
:22:24. > :22:31.want to start every week. And Royal Marine you give him that chance? I
:22:32. > :22:34.couldn't agree more. He has this wonderful desire and energy and
:22:35. > :22:40.talent. That goal, what a fitting way to break the record. Sometimes,
:22:41. > :22:44.we do under appreciate him generally, maybe more so in the
:22:45. > :22:51.media. I include myself in that. He is not England's record goal-scorer.
:22:52. > :22:56.It may only be when he retires that we offer him the appreciation and
:22:57. > :23:02.the honour that he deserves. For me, he has been an all-time great. When
:23:03. > :23:07.you say we, who do you mean? Do you mean the media all football fans?
:23:08. > :23:14.Football fans in general and the media as well. He may be a bit of a
:23:15. > :23:18.target to be shot at. I am not blaming anyone else, because I am in
:23:19. > :23:26.newspapers, and newspapers do this as well. But I have always been
:23:27. > :23:29.appreciative of him. Does he feel he is a target? He gets a lot of stick
:23:30. > :23:37.for no reason. His football speaks for itself. The stats show how good
:23:38. > :23:41.he is. Maybe on the England seem, because we have not done well, he
:23:42. > :23:48.gets more stick because of that is the captain. Do you think there is a
:23:49. > :23:52.reticent sometimes from United fans because a couple of times, he has
:23:53. > :23:58.tried to leave the club? That doesn't help. But that is football.
:23:59. > :24:05.It makes you question some of the players other than. There are not
:24:06. > :24:13.enough of them players about. Players just accept it nowadays. He
:24:14. > :24:18.has won everything a player can win domestic live. OK, England has been
:24:19. > :24:22.a problem for many generations, since 66. He has won everything in
:24:23. > :24:26.the game and these individual accolades he is getting are just
:24:27. > :24:30.like icing on the cake. Its immense human history for ever. We would
:24:31. > :24:33.talk about Saido Berahino moving to Stoke in a moment, but there has
:24:34. > :24:37.been another goal at St Mary's. It is not looking good for the
:24:38. > :24:43.champions. No, it is looking bleak at the moment because Southampton
:24:44. > :24:47.lead 2-0 against Leicester. It was poor defending from Leicester. A
:24:48. > :24:52.free kick just wasn't cleared and it felt a Rodriguez four yards out, who
:24:53. > :24:59.volleyed it into the back of the net. A couple of tweets on Rooney,
:25:00. > :25:05.just to show how he divides opinion. Jack says phenomenal effort, hasn't
:25:06. > :25:11.had the credit he deserves. He has always been scapegoated. Eddie says
:25:12. > :25:17.he is underrated, one of the best the country has produced. Oliver
:25:18. > :25:19.says, overrated, never scores in big games, bad attitude, overpaid,
:25:20. > :25:32.hasn't done anything for England. Not a fan! #bbcfootball if you want
:25:33. > :25:37.to get in touch. Are you surprised that Saido Berahino has ended up at
:25:38. > :25:42.Stoke? It is a bit of a sideways move for him. He was try to get a
:25:43. > :25:47.couple of years ago. We have been talking about him for a couple of
:25:48. > :25:50.years. I suppose the club has won that situation and he has gone
:25:51. > :25:54.somewhere a lot bigger than where he left. I think Mark use will turn him
:25:55. > :25:58.around and he will be a decent striker for them, but he had a role
:25:59. > :26:02.to play for Tony Pulis and he didn't seem to want it. What I meant to
:26:03. > :26:08.that question was that he was linked with Spurs a lot, who were trying to
:26:09. > :26:12.get in the Champions League. And yes, they have Schir Kierey and
:26:13. > :26:18.Arnautovic, but the two clubs are similar stature, Stoke and West
:26:19. > :26:28.Brom. I do think it is a sideways move. It is a fantastic deal for
:26:29. > :26:31.West Brom. I know it is still competition, but they have to be
:26:32. > :26:36.delighted with that. I think Tottenham were interested in a
:26:37. > :26:40.player who has genuine ability, a top quality player, great potential.
:26:41. > :26:47.But I'm afraid his conduct in trying to force the move would make any top
:26:48. > :26:54.club say, is he a player worth that sort of gamble? It has to be seen as
:26:55. > :26:58.a risk. Good luck to Mark use. -- Mark Hughes. He is not afraid to
:26:59. > :27:04.take on big characters, whether it be Arnautovic chew or players in the
:27:05. > :27:10.past. He believes in talent first. That is a good sign. I think West
:27:11. > :27:16.Brom have done brilliant. There is always this thing nowadays where
:27:17. > :27:22.players have the power. If they want to move, they eventually get that
:27:23. > :27:27.chance. But with five months to go, it is perfect. I don't think it is a
:27:28. > :27:36.bad deal for Stoke. It will help them out. West Brom have done
:27:37. > :27:42.brilliantly with the transfer. Wilfried Bony has not worked out,
:27:43. > :27:46.for whatever reason. But if they can get him working and fit through the
:27:47. > :27:48.middle, then they have the firepower to deliver. Those of us with long
:27:49. > :27:52.memories can remember the goals he was scoring a couple of years ago,
:27:53. > :28:00.and this fella is special. He has good feet. He is quick. He has the
:28:01. > :28:07.eye for a goal. He wasn't focused, and he probably feels he was bullied
:28:08. > :28:14.a bit. Couldn't get what he wanted. Tony Pulis is a difficult manager in
:28:15. > :28:17.that situation. But they will get a very good player. But there is
:28:18. > :28:23.something wrong with him a little bit mentally. It could all happen
:28:24. > :28:26.for him again at Stoke. Let's move on to Crystal Palace, who have
:28:27. > :28:30.slipped into the bottom three after Seamus Coleman's late winner for
:28:31. > :28:36.Everton at Selhurst Park yesterday. Here is Sam Allardyce. The learning
:28:37. > :28:42.curve for me is finding out about this player, that player, who I can
:28:43. > :28:44.rely on the most. When I made that decision with bringing new players
:28:45. > :28:49.in by the end of January, I was focusing on that and making those
:28:50. > :28:54.players better between now and the end of the season in all aspects of
:28:55. > :28:58.the game. I guess it is tricky, because you are trying to give the
:28:59. > :29:04.club in the Premier League, but you are also firefighting to an extent
:29:05. > :29:09.as well. But I am used to that. I can't say I particularly like it,
:29:10. > :29:14.but at the end of the day, I have been here before. So I will try and
:29:15. > :29:18.manage the team with the backroom staff. And if the team believe as
:29:19. > :29:24.much as I do, if the players believe as much as I do, we will get out of
:29:25. > :29:28.it. So he says he has been there before and he has. He also said a
:29:29. > :29:31.couple of weeks ago in a post-match interview that it might be late
:29:32. > :29:36.March or April before they pull away from the bottom. If you look at when
:29:37. > :29:41.he was at Sunderland, won three of his first six but then lost the next
:29:42. > :29:45.five. He has admitted it could take a while to turn it around. He is
:29:46. > :29:48.trying to go on the front foot by saying if the players believe as
:29:49. > :29:53.much as he does. That is different from what he said at the start of
:29:54. > :30:00.the week, when he was questioning whether there was the belief there
:30:01. > :30:02.and whether he could keep Palace up. It was a strange statement from
:30:03. > :30:07.Allardyce and I know he regretted it afterwards. He tried to address it
:30:08. > :30:15.in his post-match interview there. I wonder about Allardyce. I thought
:30:16. > :30:17.Palace would immediately go on the open up as soon as he got that job.
:30:18. > :30:22.I wonder whether the England experience scarred him and is eating
:30:23. > :30:24.up at him and perhaps taking away something of his ability as a
:30:25. > :30:34.manager. I don't agree with that. Look at the
:30:35. > :30:38.amount of games Palace have lost before he got there. It is
:30:39. > :30:43.scandalous the amount of games they lost that the previous manager
:30:44. > :30:47.stayed in the job as long as he did, so he inherited this. He's got to
:30:48. > :30:54.turn things around. He's got to get wounded players who haven't won for
:30:55. > :30:58.a long time back to winning. They have no confidence. Townsend is
:30:59. > :31:09.sitting on the bench at the moment. Ben -- Benteke. He has some really
:31:10. > :31:12.hard work to do in there, some really serious talking to those
:31:13. > :31:15.players because they will go down if they don't turn it around very
:31:16. > :31:22.quickly but they have the players to do it. What happens when he takes
:31:23. > :31:28.over? What does he change really? The outside looking in at these
:31:29. > :31:34.clubs you think an oncoming are all professional players, you know how
:31:35. > :31:40.to defend, so what does he change? We were struggling. No confidence.
:31:41. > :31:44.He comes in and keeps a very basic, very simple. He tells you what he
:31:45. > :31:51.wants. It takes a few weeks but as soon as you started doing it, you
:31:52. > :31:55.can see the lads coming together as a team and we started performing in
:31:56. > :32:01.a reasonable way. We start getting results. It's as simple as that.
:32:02. > :32:08.There is no, right, we will change this and that... We do it as a team.
:32:09. > :32:14.He gets the confidence up. Does he walk you through shape, position,
:32:15. > :32:19.drumming it in? Yes, we were letting in goals so he would get it all
:32:20. > :32:22.tight and pretty much sorted out as simple as that. It's very simple.
:32:23. > :32:31.There would be nothing very difficult going on with his
:32:32. > :32:44.training. It would be simple, tight, compact. Wes, do you end up playing
:32:45. > :32:48.for the man? Because of the X factor with the man himself. I've spoken to
:32:49. > :32:55.some of the staff and they say he's a breath of fresh air. Yes, when you
:32:56. > :33:00.are in the changing room, I know what it's like. Players are always
:33:01. > :33:03.worried by other clubs. Players can come and destructive player and
:33:04. > :33:11.there will be players at that club thinking oh, come summer I'm looking
:33:12. > :33:22.to go. They just need to win games. They got some great players. Benteke
:33:23. > :33:27.Has not been playing well and if he can sort that out, it's a great
:33:28. > :33:31.help. You look at their midfield and Townsend is not even being used.
:33:32. > :33:38.They have players who can turn this around. Puncheon. I look at them
:33:39. > :33:42.defensively and I just don't think the quality is there. I just don't
:33:43. > :33:47.think they are strong enough as a unit. But if he keeps them simple
:33:48. > :33:51.and organised, there's not that much difference to the back four that
:33:52. > :34:01.kept them up last season. I don't know, if you sense the manager
:34:02. > :34:06.hasn't quite got that trust in you, I mean I guess it is an art of
:34:07. > :34:10.management to hide that doubts but basically I think is clearly going
:34:11. > :34:15.for two new full-backs, he will clearly go for that and a
:34:16. > :34:21.centre-half. He is mixing it up, he played three yesterday. Font went to
:34:22. > :34:25.West Ham, and that was a big mess because he is solid. We will come
:34:26. > :34:35.back to the bottom of the table shortly. It is half-time at Saint
:34:36. > :34:41.Mary 's. Simon Brotherton is up the Emirates for us. I know you were at
:34:42. > :34:47.the Liberty Stadium last week watching the game against Swansea,
:34:48. > :34:54.4-0 for Arsenal, were they as good as the scoreline suggests? Certainly
:34:55. > :34:58.the first 20 minutes Swansea played very well, and Arsenal just look a
:34:59. > :35:03.little bit laboured at times starting the game, but it's as if
:35:04. > :35:09.they got in at half-time. Arsene Wenger regrouped with them and gave
:35:10. > :35:12.them a kick up the backside, and their second-half formance was
:35:13. > :35:16.scintillating at times. We saw Danny Welbeck come off the bench, Arsene
:35:17. > :35:20.Wenger has been talking about him this week and the contribution he
:35:21. > :35:24.can make in the second half of the season. Do you think in a way it is
:35:25. > :35:29.almost like having a new signing and he could be a key contributor? Yes,
:35:30. > :35:34.before his injury he was starting to get a few important goals for
:35:35. > :35:37.Arsenal. He's done his preparation, there's no way Arsene Wenger would
:35:38. > :35:45.allow him to come back into the Premier League in a game with such
:35:46. > :35:49.pace and ferocity otherwise so he's obviously ready. He wants to get
:35:50. > :35:52.Welbeck on the pitch and get him back to full fitness because you can
:35:53. > :35:55.have bounce games and play in the reserves but it's not the same as
:35:56. > :35:59.playing in a Premier League match with the meaning it accounts for.
:36:00. > :36:04.Welbeck for me is a good player and just needs to get back to playing
:36:05. > :36:09.games. I'm sure at some stage today you might see Welbeck coming on.
:36:10. > :36:14.It's an opportunity for Arsenal to gain ground on some of their rivals,
:36:15. > :36:19.with most of the top six dropping points yesterday. Can they be the
:36:20. > :36:23.main challengers to Chelsea, do you think? I think there are still
:36:24. > :36:31.several. I still look at the likes of Manchester City, and Spurs,
:36:32. > :36:36.dropped a few points yesterday. They are all still chasing Chelsea, but
:36:37. > :36:42.they cannot drop any points. In the past you seen Arsenal lose games
:36:43. > :36:48.like today. Arsenal have got to be looking to win today.
:36:49. > :36:55.You can hear John commentating on radio 5 Live this afternoon. Two
:36:56. > :37:02.o'clock kick-off here at Emirates. Andy Dunn wrote a column in the
:37:03. > :37:06.mirror questioning why Sean Dyche is not on the list to replace Arsene
:37:07. > :37:19.Wenger when the time comes. Yes, it's an interesting read and I guess
:37:20. > :37:24.at this moment in time basically is Sean Dyche judged because Burnley
:37:25. > :37:31.went down, where is obviously Eddie Howe has kept on up. In answer to
:37:32. > :37:35.that I think Sean Dyche has done a good job because relegation is such
:37:36. > :37:39.a hammer blow, then to get them straight back up is almost more of
:37:40. > :37:43.an achievement I think to keep that group of players together. This
:37:44. > :37:48.season has been remarkable for Burnley and yet I don't think he
:37:49. > :37:54.sometimes gets the appreciation as a young English manager that he
:37:55. > :37:57.deserves. I know we are alluding to there, basically the home form is
:37:58. > :38:01.out of this world, but away from home it is one point. But Sean Dyke
:38:02. > :38:07.deserves much more credit than he sometimes gets. Sunderland beating
:38:08. > :38:14.that West Brom yesterday, bottom of the Premier League. David Moyes
:38:15. > :38:21.after the game spoke about inheriting a losing culture. Does
:38:22. > :38:27.that ring true with you, Wes? Yes, a little bit. Out of the five seasons
:38:28. > :38:32.I was there, four of them we were always in trouble. I don't know what
:38:33. > :38:36.it is, it is hard to recognise what the problem is. It's not just the
:38:37. > :38:44.players, it is a bit of the club as well. When you get into that, the
:38:45. > :38:49.players have got to bring themselves out of it a little bit because luck
:38:50. > :38:58.is not just going to help at the moment. The defeat is disappointing.
:38:59. > :39:00.You talked about Sam Allardyce keeping things simple when he came
:39:01. > :39:14.in and bringing the dressing room together. Does what David Moyes...
:39:15. > :39:20.Seems frustrated in every interview. You can see that in his interviews.
:39:21. > :39:25.He's got some good players and they are not performing. They need to be
:39:26. > :39:31.doing better, they need the bigger players... Jermaine Defoe has been
:39:32. > :39:36.brilliant. He's been doing what he's been asked. The other players need
:39:37. > :39:42.to perform a little bit better because this has been going on for a
:39:43. > :39:46.few seasons now and there's no... If you look at Sunderland you say yes,
:39:47. > :39:50.Jermaine Defoe, there's not really anyone else you say. Do you think
:39:51. > :39:58.they feel sorry for themselves, some of other players? Maybe, but I was
:39:59. > :40:06.there and you have to get over that. Are they good enough now? Anichebe
:40:07. > :40:11.Came off the bench and that someone they turn to. Has he got the money,
:40:12. > :40:17.are his hands tied? The spark has got come from somewhere. He has his
:40:18. > :40:28.hands tied behind his back. It will be an interesting acid test. He has
:40:29. > :40:33.already been tested on Jermaine Defoe but how much ambition is there
:40:34. > :40:37.to keep the better players? How much ambition is there to stay up and
:40:38. > :40:40.maintain their Premier League status? I like David Moyes as a
:40:41. > :40:45.manager but he's been eaten away by it all and it must be demoralising
:40:46. > :40:51.but he is struggling to even stay positive. He has been linked with
:40:52. > :40:57.Jagielka, Lescott and Robbie Keane which either implies they think it
:40:58. > :41:05.is 2008 at Sunderland or there is no money. I don't think the money is
:41:06. > :41:14.there, he has been open about his frustration with the lack of
:41:15. > :41:17.funding. I Karanka described the atmosphere at the Riverside
:41:18. > :41:21.yesterday as awful and suggested fans were calling for urgent long
:41:22. > :41:24.balls and that was detrimental to the team, which goes back to the
:41:25. > :41:29.point that sometimes it's easier to play away from home in a relegation
:41:30. > :41:36.battle, but dangerous, as a manager, criticising your own fans? Honesty.
:41:37. > :41:42.Visit the north-east thing or just a football thing. We had it at
:41:43. > :41:45.Sunderland, especially with Gus Poyet it. It's difficult because if
:41:46. > :41:51.you are keeping the ball at the back, maybe holding midfielder, they
:41:52. > :41:56.just want to seek action. When you are not doing too well, when you are
:41:57. > :42:02.trying to play like that, the fans just want to see some action. It is
:42:03. > :42:09.the mentality maybe we are not trying to win. Effective football is
:42:10. > :42:17.what you want, isn't it? You want to get behind your team. I think fans
:42:18. > :42:24.is a big part of it. Even if you are losing, if the fans are behind you,
:42:25. > :42:30.the lads love it. It lifts them and it makes them want to do more. When
:42:31. > :42:35.it is done and it is doing and everyone is getting on your case, it
:42:36. > :42:42.doesn't help. Even though you are not really focusing on it, it is
:42:43. > :42:49.there in the background. The fans are like the 12th man for you,
:42:50. > :42:54.aren't they? When it is not going well. That's when you need them the
:42:55. > :42:59.most, just a bit of encouragement. We are nearly out of time, if
:43:00. > :43:04.Chelsea were to win against Hull it would be a very successful weekend
:43:05. > :43:09.for Chelsea. A remarkable weekend so far for Chelsea. They have gone
:43:10. > :43:17.through a difficult couple of weeks where they have suffered a first
:43:18. > :43:25.defeat, they have had the Costa fall out, and to go into this weekend
:43:26. > :43:30.stronger than ever is credit to Antonio Conte. They still have
:43:31. > :43:35.difficult games coming up. It is coming that through that, the next
:43:36. > :43:39.few matches will be tough but they are looking like champions already.
:43:40. > :43:43.But there's a long way to go and you cannot give up. Teams have been in
:43:44. > :43:51.this situation before and lost points. I remember when Arsenal had
:43:52. > :43:55.a ten point gap... All right, we are out of time, Martin! Who would have
:43:56. > :43:58.thought that would happen. Southampton against Leicester is 2-0
:43:59. > :44:02.and that's on 5 Live.