0:00:26 > 0:00:29Hello and welcome to Match of the Day 2 Extra.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32We're on BBC2, 5Live, the BBC Sport website and app today,
0:00:32 > 0:00:35as well as the iPlayer.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38And joining me today is former Arsenal defender Martin Keown,
0:00:38 > 0:00:41Middlesborough manager Garry Monk, and Jason Burt, chief football
0:00:41 > 0:00:46correspondent of the Telegraph.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48As ever, we're interested in what you've got to say,
0:00:48 > 0:00:50so please do get in touch with us.
0:00:50 > 0:00:52Use the hashtag #bbcfootball on social media, or you
0:00:52 > 0:00:53can text us on 85058.
0:00:53 > 0:00:59Here's what's coming up.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01West Brom hold Spurs at Wembley meaning Mauricio Pochettino's side
0:01:01 > 0:01:05could be 13 points off the top by the end of today.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08The Baggies meanwhile could be about to swap Pulis for Pardew.
0:01:08 > 0:01:10A resurgent Palace come from behind to put pressure on Stoke
0:01:10 > 0:01:13manager Mark Hughes.
0:01:13 > 0:01:15And we'll look ahead to Sunday's games as Everton's search
0:01:15 > 0:01:17for a new permanent manager goes on.
0:01:17 > 0:01:18On the back pages...
0:01:18 > 0:01:22The Express - "We're out of title race".
0:01:22 > 0:01:25Pochettino saying the gap to Manchester City at the top has
0:01:25 > 0:01:26already become too big.
0:01:26 > 0:01:28The Mirror - "Everton power battle".
0:01:28 > 0:01:31It's saying chairman Bill Kenwright and major shareholder Farhad Moshiri
0:01:31 > 0:01:34are at odds over who to appoint as the new manager at Goodison Park.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37The Sunday Times - "Watford: we'll report Everton".
0:01:37 > 0:01:39It says Watford intend to report Everton to the Premier League should
0:01:39 > 0:01:48they continue their pursuit of Marco Silva.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50First let's discuss that 1-1 draw at Wembley yesterday,
0:01:50 > 0:01:53after which Spurs manager Mauricio Pchettino said the ten
0:01:53 > 0:01:54point gap between them and the league leaders...
0:01:54 > 0:01:59"Is too much to catch City in their form.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01Martin, that gap could be 13 points by the end
0:02:01 > 0:02:05Is it already too much?
0:02:05 > 0:02:10I think he's probably right to say it. But whether he should announce
0:02:10 > 0:02:15it is different. They might have already won the Premier League by
0:02:15 > 0:02:20Christmas. They might have to adjust. A couple of seasons ago when
0:02:20 > 0:02:24it didn't look like they would be champions, they almost imploded. The
0:02:24 > 0:02:27new target was to finish second because Manchester City that could
0:02:27 > 0:02:31now.If City win today its 13 points. It's an impossible question
0:02:31 > 0:02:35to be asked as a manager. You are damned if you do and damned if you
0:02:35 > 0:02:41don't.Maybe a little bit in his comments, anything he can say in
0:02:41 > 0:02:45that situation to add a bit of pressure. It's a relentless pace
0:02:45 > 0:02:48they are setting, but any bit of pressure you can put on as a
0:02:48 > 0:02:54manager. But it's a tough task from this point onwards with the pace
0:02:54 > 0:02:59Manchester City setting.Roberto Mancini all is used to say they
0:02:59 > 0:03:03can't win the league when he was at Manchester City, and they did.
0:03:03 > 0:03:08Pochettino is probably worried about a top four place as well. They might
0:03:08 > 0:03:10be looking over their shoulders because they have a battle to finish
0:03:10 > 0:03:16in the top four. Maybe a little bit of that going on. Martin is right.
0:03:16 > 0:03:22It's probably over in terms of the title race because City are so good.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25It's November, ten points, enough games to go to catch them up, but
0:03:25 > 0:03:29actually it will be very difficult. I think it will probably be all over
0:03:29 > 0:03:34before Christmas partly because we have so many games before then. Keep
0:03:34 > 0:03:39going like this and they might be 15 or 18 points clear by Christmas.Of
0:03:39 > 0:03:44everybody?Quite possibly. It was a big win for Manchester United
0:03:44 > 0:03:50yesterday. They played poorly but got the victory. If they hadn't won
0:03:50 > 0:03:57yesterday, they might well be saying the same thing.Chelsea, Manchester
0:03:57 > 0:04:02United, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal. None of them necessarily having bad
0:04:02 > 0:04:07seasons at the moment. And if City were not that far ahead, most fans
0:04:07 > 0:04:13of those clubs would be satisfied. The managers of those clubs, the
0:04:13 > 0:04:16expectancy to win the league or be competing, there might be a sense of
0:04:16 > 0:04:21worry about that. But if Manchester City continue on their path, at that
0:04:21 > 0:04:25pace, playing their way, there is a sense of acceptance that they might
0:04:25 > 0:04:29have to readjust the targets. Like Martin said, fighting for second
0:04:29 > 0:04:32place or qualifying for the Champions League.I think with
0:04:32 > 0:04:36Spurs, they need to try to find a different target. The dream for
0:04:36 > 0:04:40them, they have never won a trophy with that group of players. They
0:04:40 > 0:04:44haven't had the joy of lifting up a trophy and showing it to the
0:04:44 > 0:04:49supporters. They need to find another goal to go after. If it is a
0:04:49 > 0:04:55trophy of a sort, finishing in the top four, they have to find it. The
0:04:55 > 0:04:59home form at Wembley is still a factor. Their home form has been
0:04:59 > 0:05:04brilliant at White Hart Lane.That's not strictly true. Because Wembley
0:05:04 > 0:05:09has been absolutely rocking for them when they have played certain teams.
0:05:09 > 0:05:15I know they lost at home to Chelsea, but the atmosphere was amazing. They
0:05:15 > 0:05:19demolished Liverpool, beaten Real Madrid and Borussia Dortmund. When
0:05:19 > 0:05:25the game is big at Wembley, the place is rocking. I know that
0:05:25 > 0:05:33doesn't rhyme with trembling Wembley, but it is rocking Wembley.
0:05:33 > 0:05:37I think they could have been going toe to toe with Manchester City, if
0:05:37 > 0:05:41they had been in their natural home, White Hart Lane. That's not ready
0:05:41 > 0:05:49yet. It's a problem for them, but they are a great side. A truly great
0:05:49 > 0:05:53side has to win a trophy though. The problem with Tottenham is trying to
0:05:53 > 0:05:56keep this magnificent group together long enough, including the manager,
0:05:56 > 0:06:00to be in a position to win.There have been too many games like
0:06:00 > 0:06:04yesterday. It was quite predictable. We have seen it before, good games
0:06:04 > 0:06:09in Europe, then playing West Brom at home. People thought it would be
0:06:09 > 0:06:12tough and it proved that way, they got the draw. At the start of the
0:06:12 > 0:06:14season I thought the biggest problem they would have with Wembley isn't
0:06:14 > 0:06:18the size of the pitch or the stadium, it's how will teams who go
0:06:18 > 0:06:23their play against them. That's a problem they have on that pitch in
0:06:23 > 0:06:27that stadium. Other teams set themselves up in a way that makes
0:06:27 > 0:06:32them difficult to beat. I think the statistics prove it, they are not
0:06:32 > 0:06:34running as much as they did last season and are not as dynamic. I
0:06:34 > 0:06:38don't know if that's a deliberate policy to try to pace themselves
0:06:38 > 0:06:42over the course of the campaign, or if it is taking it out of them. They
0:06:42 > 0:06:46struggle to move the ball as quickly as last season.Wembley will never
0:06:46 > 0:06:51be their home. For every player that plays football, the dream is to play
0:06:51 > 0:06:55at Wembley, so every player takes a bit of ownership of it. When you
0:06:55 > 0:07:01turn up to Wembley, it's your home. Every player. We had the same
0:07:01 > 0:07:07problem in the Champions League. Batistuta was wondering around
0:07:07 > 0:07:12saying, it's Wembley. It's going against Tottenham this year, and it
0:07:12 > 0:07:16will go against Chelsea when they move there as well.We can hear from
0:07:16 > 0:07:21Gary Megson and what he said about Spurs after the 1-1 draw yesterday.
0:07:21 > 0:07:25In the first half we were not resilient, but we didn't have to be.
0:07:25 > 0:07:32We were keeping the ball. Tottenham played two of their best games
0:07:32 > 0:07:34against Real Madrid that I have seen this season. They were fantastic,
0:07:34 > 0:07:38but they played with the three centre halves and because of the way
0:07:38 > 0:07:42things went today for them, they change that, changing formation
0:07:42 > 0:07:46three or four times over the course of the game. I think the idea was to
0:07:46 > 0:07:50try to cause us more problems. What they are doing that worked against
0:07:50 > 0:07:56Real Madrid, it wasn't paying dividends for them today.While that
0:07:56 > 0:08:00is an analysis of how Spurs played yesterday, is it quite a good way of
0:08:00 > 0:08:03picking up the West Brom performance? What worked against
0:08:03 > 0:08:08Real Madrid, didn't work against us! You have to get them where you can!
0:08:08 > 0:08:13He was pleased with the Provence, and it was a very good one. In terms
0:08:13 > 0:08:18of going to Wembley, as Martin says, it isn't a home feeling for Spurs.
0:08:18 > 0:08:22-- pleased with the performance. I think away teams are going to enjoy
0:08:22 > 0:08:26it more because it's an occasion with Wembley and the history.If you
0:08:26 > 0:08:30were taking a team there would you play on that?I think you would, and
0:08:30 > 0:08:34the players would naturally think that as well. They understand the
0:08:34 > 0:08:40history. But Spurs are a difficult to play against. They are a good
0:08:40 > 0:08:43team. There is a certain edge you could play on if you took a team
0:08:43 > 0:08:45there. Tactically you have to get it right and hope the game goes right
0:08:45 > 0:08:48because you have to get through against a good side. But what quite
0:08:48 > 0:08:53a few teams have done is get through.Rondon is scored an early
0:08:53 > 0:08:59goal.Should have scored a very late one as well.The questions come in a
0:08:59 > 0:09:04little bit. It's a big and ponderous stadium. Big teams, Real Madrid,
0:09:04 > 0:09:07what an incredible atmosphere and a great achievement to beat them, but
0:09:07 > 0:09:15I can't do it against the likes of West Brom.In the title race, let's
0:09:15 > 0:09:23not write Spurs off just yet says one viewer. Terry says it's amazing
0:09:23 > 0:09:25Spurs aren't challenging more with the quality they have.
0:09:25 > 0:09:28Let's talk about West Brom now, who held talks with Alan Pardew
0:09:28 > 0:09:31as they close in on appointing a replacement for Tony Pulis,
0:09:31 > 0:09:32who was sacked on Monday.
0:09:32 > 0:09:37That's what I understand. They met last week and talks are progressing.
0:09:37 > 0:09:42He seems to be the new head coach. Do you understand the decision?I
0:09:42 > 0:09:46understand why they are doing it. There is a desire to shift the style
0:09:46 > 0:09:50of football. They wanted a manager with Premier League experience. I
0:09:50 > 0:09:55accept and agree with the same old names coming around again, that
0:09:55 > 0:09:59happens quite a lot but clubs are risk averse and they don't want to
0:09:59 > 0:10:03take a chance. The big thing now in football, beyond the top six, the
0:10:03 > 0:10:06other 14 teams are desperate to stay up and the fear of being relegated
0:10:06 > 0:10:11is too great for them. They will do everything they can to stay in the
0:10:11 > 0:10:14division. Five managers sacked already this season. Probably a
0:10:14 > 0:10:18couple more before Christmas the way things are going. Clubs think they
0:10:18 > 0:10:20have to do something and unfortunately for managers, that
0:10:20 > 0:10:27something is often do change the manager.The style of football, when
0:10:27 > 0:10:30you have interviewed for jobs, Middlesbrough and Leeds United, and
0:10:30 > 0:10:33even when you had talks at Swansea when you got the job full-time, were
0:10:33 > 0:10:37you asked about the style of football and did you present to the
0:10:37 > 0:10:41board about the style of football you would like to play?At Swansea
0:10:41 > 0:10:45it was a different case because of what had been put in place in the
0:10:45 > 0:10:49past, and being a part of that and continue in that. With Leeds and
0:10:49 > 0:10:52Middlesbrough, I think the be all and end all is to find a winning
0:10:52 > 0:10:56formula. There is a lot of talk about philosophy and styles, but the
0:10:56 > 0:10:59most important thing is to win. That's the business and that's what
0:10:59 > 0:11:04we are there to do. You will talk through certain things you will look
0:11:04 > 0:11:07at and how the project will look at the end and how you can try to get
0:11:07 > 0:11:12there. You sell it in that way. But ultimately what they want to hear is
0:11:12 > 0:11:16what will win. Philosophies and all these things, that's ultimately what
0:11:16 > 0:11:21you're trying to sell.What responsibilities do you feel as a
0:11:21 > 0:11:24manager towards fans. I was with West Brom fans in the week and they
0:11:24 > 0:11:31said to me, all we want is to have some fun. We want to have a bit of
0:11:31 > 0:11:40fun.You know what you are getting when you bring a manager in. As an
0:11:40 > 0:11:44owner, as a club, whatever you decide to bring in. Everyone is
0:11:44 > 0:11:47fully aware at that point what you will get or what it will look like.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51That's down to the owners to decide what they feel at that moment, what
0:11:51 > 0:11:57is needed in that moment.The next games, Newcastle is the first game.
0:11:57 > 0:12:05One of his old clubs. And then Palace. He is a yo-yo manager. I
0:12:05 > 0:12:10think he's a decent manager. He's not bad. This is his last big
0:12:10 > 0:12:13chance, and if he doesn't get it right we will not see him in the
0:12:13 > 0:12:16Premier League again. A couple of years ago he wasn't far away from
0:12:16 > 0:12:19being a candidate for the England job. That's how precarious it can be
0:12:19 > 0:12:23in a Premier League. He goes successive runs of lots of defeats
0:12:23 > 0:12:27and massive runs of winning games. Which will it be? If it doesn't
0:12:27 > 0:12:33happen quickly, he could well be sacked. Two managers gone from the
0:12:33 > 0:12:36same job in the same season, it could be. Tony Pulis is a past
0:12:36 > 0:12:40master at Staindrop, and they have got rid of him. He will probably be
0:12:40 > 0:12:46picked up. The pressure will be massively around him. I think he
0:12:46 > 0:12:49wants the job but if he can pull it off remains to be seen to stop but
0:12:49 > 0:12:54if he gets it wrong is the last big job he will get.He's the sort of
0:12:54 > 0:12:57manager who gets an immediate reaction from players and fans. Alan
0:12:57 > 0:13:03Pardew to be fair does try to play front foot football and attack. And
0:13:03 > 0:13:06West Brom supporters want something more. The trouble Tony Pulis, if you
0:13:06 > 0:13:09take away the point is, if they don't win or draw, you don't have
0:13:09 > 0:13:15anything left because the football isn't great. At least at this stage
0:13:15 > 0:13:19you don't have anything in your favour, apart from the reputation
0:13:19 > 0:13:24you have achieved in the past. But he got to a stage with them, they
0:13:24 > 0:13:26are not even getting results, just getting beaten, and that's all
0:13:26 > 0:13:32that's happening. And also fans aren't turning up. The Hawthorns
0:13:32 > 0:13:35hasn't been selling out. That alarms the clubs and owners. They don't
0:13:35 > 0:13:40have a lot to fall back on.You talk about him getting an immediate
0:13:40 > 0:13:44reaction. Do you think most new managers get an immediate reaction?
0:13:44 > 0:13:50No!The same old names that keep going round and round, these
0:13:50 > 0:13:53firefighters that will keep clubs up. Are they all getting immediate
0:13:53 > 0:13:57reaction is to get clubs up.Sam Allardyce didn't get an immediate
0:13:57 > 0:14:02reaction. But we know the body of work he does. It takes time to turn
0:14:02 > 0:14:06a team around. This is more about clubs being risk averse. They don't
0:14:06 > 0:14:11want to. Lots of good coaches and managers out there, but they don't
0:14:11 > 0:14:14want to get somebody who might work. They want something more tried and
0:14:14 > 0:14:17trusted. They will look at Alan Pardew and his record, and what he
0:14:17 > 0:14:21has achieved. I know it has gone badly wrong at certain times, but he
0:14:21 > 0:14:25did quite well as well. He was Manager of the Year with Newcastle,
0:14:25 > 0:14:29getting them to fit under difficult circumstances stop did well at
0:14:29 > 0:14:35Palace to begin with but then try to change the style of play. Did OK at
0:14:35 > 0:14:39West Ham. He has quite a good track record, to be fair to him. I
0:14:39 > 0:14:42understand Martin's point, we understand this situation when he
0:14:42 > 0:14:46gets lots of good results and then lots of poor ones. He has to arrest
0:14:46 > 0:14:55that but I think you'll get wins to stay in the Premier League.He did
0:14:55 > 0:14:59get to a cup final as well. The point with West Brom was the way
0:14:59 > 0:15:03they were playing. It was awful and they had to make a change. The
0:15:03 > 0:15:07wingers were playing like full-backs. No creativity. Yesterday
0:15:07 > 0:15:10they were asking players to play ten or 15 yards further up the pitch.
0:15:10 > 0:15:15With Rondon, you could see his power. Rodriguez is another player.
0:15:15 > 0:15:20Arsenal did very well on the break. They were mixed in their performance
0:15:20 > 0:15:26and a change had to be made.On Twitter, I don't get this obsession,
0:15:26 > 0:15:30a merry-go-round of failed top-level managers. Bring new blood up from
0:15:30 > 0:15:34the lower levels. Tim says to look at the good up-and-coming managers
0:15:34 > 0:15:39in the Championship all-league one. It seems a backward step. Do
0:15:39 > 0:15:42Championship and League 1 managers talk to each other about the Premier
0:15:42 > 0:15:43League being a closed shop?
0:15:47 > 0:15:53When you speak to the managers, there are good managers and good
0:15:53 > 0:15:57coaches.It is a difficult feeling. The majority of the feeling is that
0:15:57 > 0:16:02to get to the Premier League, you have to take a team there. The
0:16:02 > 0:16:08problem may be the opportunities.It is the reality.Yeah, you accept
0:16:08 > 0:16:15that as a manager, be realistic.Do you?You do. Everyone wants to be in
0:16:15 > 0:16:20the Premier League. But the reality is, the guys at that level, you will
0:16:20 > 0:16:30have to take a team there, you can stay there, maybe taking the
0:16:30 > 0:16:34opportunity at that point.The team news from one of the three games
0:16:34 > 0:16:39today, Southampton against Everton. Vicky Sparks has the team news.
0:16:39 > 0:16:43Mario Lemina is not fit enough to start for Southampton but he is back
0:16:43 > 0:16:46on the bench as they make three changes from their defeat by
0:16:46 > 0:16:51Liverpool. Another played just six minutes in the Premier League this
0:16:51 > 0:16:59season, he comes in for the suspended Oriol Romeu. Everton make
0:16:59 > 0:17:06eight changes from the five - one humbling defeat against Atalanta.
0:17:06 > 0:17:20Oumar Niasse against the ban for diving. Sanchez upfront. Morgan
0:17:20 > 0:17:28Schneiderlin and Phil Jagielka are fit and start.Everton are in the
0:17:28 > 0:17:36thick of it, have they completely mismanaged their managerial
0:17:36 > 0:17:39situation?Yeah, absolutely. I felt this for the last couple of years,
0:17:39 > 0:17:43clubs focused too much on the manager, the manager carries the can
0:17:43 > 0:17:48for everything, they push into the front almost, it is his fault if it
0:17:48 > 0:17:52goes wrong. Lots goes on behind-the-scenes, they need to take
0:17:52 > 0:17:56more responsibility. We talk about the recruitment of managers, I
0:17:56 > 0:18:01cannot understand how they are not scouring the world much more
0:18:01 > 0:18:04cannot understand how they are not scouring the world much more, going
0:18:04 > 0:18:10through the leagues, so much of what they do is knee jerk and a reaction
0:18:10 > 0:18:15to the last three, four results. Not enough clubs have a plan of what
0:18:15 > 0:18:19they want to do and where they want to be an stick with the plan.
0:18:19 > 0:18:23Everton, it looks like a club where they have bought these players, and
0:18:23 > 0:18:27this much, I said that in the summer, everyone else had top six,
0:18:27 > 0:18:33unbalanced squad, who is buying the players? The man managing them goes
0:18:33 > 0:18:39after a few games. Left a month, they are after Marco Silva. He is
0:18:39 > 0:18:43not going! He might want to but Watford are saying he is staying.
0:18:43 > 0:18:47They have to get some minerals. David Unsworth is hanging at the
0:18:47 > 0:18:53moment.It was not just Romelu Lukaku, it was Valencia as well, I
0:18:53 > 0:18:57have not done the management game, but you have to have a centre
0:18:57 > 0:19:03forward. What are they trying to do? I know it is not the only problem,
0:19:03 > 0:19:09but Romelu Lukaku had a big impact at Manchester United. They say...
0:19:09 > 0:19:14They knew he was going in March, he did not suddenly go. Swansea lost
0:19:14 > 0:19:19players at the end of the window, that is how they are so unbalanced.
0:19:19 > 0:19:23David Unsworth, whether he should be given the job, he has not got the
0:19:23 > 0:19:27experience for that type of job, but as time goes on, you realise he is
0:19:27 > 0:19:34now part of the problem. The last game they played, three goals
0:19:34 > 0:19:38conceded from set pieces, in Europe. I would be very clear of the
0:19:38 > 0:19:41messages I want from set pieces. It was
0:19:41 > 0:19:46sloppy, he now is a part of the problem. They are not getting it
0:19:46 > 0:19:53right. They really struggle. Look at Michael Keane now, he looks a really
0:19:53 > 0:20:02ordinary defender. Over the hill. Michael Keane, to be fair, he has
0:20:02 > 0:20:05played in a two, three, different person alongside him at centre-half,
0:20:05 > 0:20:11different person at right back half the time, he must not know... David
0:20:11 > 0:20:15Unsworth must not know if he is coming or going.Left hanging. There
0:20:15 > 0:20:19is a base you work from. You see this with Roy Hodgson, he has gone
0:20:19 > 0:20:23in and he has tried to impart their knowledge, get the basics right
0:20:23 > 0:20:28defensively.He is able to do that from a position of stability,
0:20:28 > 0:20:34strength.And experience. David Unsworth has not got that. He has
0:20:34 > 0:20:37come in from the outside. David Unsworth stepped up from the under
0:20:37 > 0:20:4223s. Maybe he is not right. Personally, I think they should not
0:20:42 > 0:20:46give it to him. But the way they have handled it...Your point about
0:20:46 > 0:20:51the cult of the manager and maybe expecting too much from managers,
0:20:51 > 0:20:54everything is the be all and end all when it comes to managers, do you
0:20:54 > 0:21:02feel that?You do. Internally, the support from the owner and within,
0:21:02 > 0:21:07that can be strong, like I have now with Middlesbrough and my experience
0:21:07 > 0:21:10before, but outwardly, responsibly, you do feel that ultimately the
0:21:10 > 0:21:13responsibility of everything is on yourself. Internally, different
0:21:13 > 0:21:23departments at the clubs, it is not a new, but absently, the focus is on
0:21:23 > 0:21:27the manager, I guess that sense of responsibility is there. Again, you
0:21:27 > 0:21:32know that, part of the job.When a new manager comes in, it is so much
0:21:32 > 0:21:36about the new manager, as a player, in the dressing room, been through
0:21:36 > 0:21:41the mill, I had 15 managers in my playing career, another one coming,
0:21:41 > 0:21:47big speech, we will do this, we will do that. First game, we lose.
0:21:47 > 0:21:55Question marks are there. The manager is on trial, not us,
0:21:55 > 0:21:56skill is to put the pressure on to the players and sit back and help
0:21:56 > 0:22:03them. Let them flourish. And nurture them. Arsene Wenger did a brilliant
0:22:03 > 0:22:10thing when he first came to Arsenal, 15 minute meeting with each player.
0:22:10 > 0:22:15It was handy they gave us new contracts and a pay rise! Suddenly
0:22:15 > 0:22:20though, there was a connection, it was about us and not the manager. It
0:22:20 > 0:22:24is... I bet David Moyes is on the training ground now for fun. In the
0:22:24 > 0:22:31end come you get fed up.As a football fan, that is where I want
0:22:31 > 0:22:35my manager, on the training field. Thinking about it, I probably don't
0:22:35 > 0:22:42want my manager doing every pre-match and post-match press
0:22:42 > 0:22:45Conference four, five times a week. I had this conversation with Nigel
0:22:45 > 0:22:51Pearson after he left Leicester, it is absolutely incessant. Sometimes
0:22:51 > 0:22:55you think, why did they just put a player up for one of those? He said,
0:22:55 > 0:23:02you try and get a player to do a press Conference! That is how we
0:23:02 > 0:23:03have ended up with the cult of the manager, you are meant to answer
0:23:03 > 0:23:13everything pre-match and post-match. I do agree to a certain extent. The
0:23:13 > 0:23:16manager has less power though, the club does not want to give the power
0:23:16 > 0:23:22to the manager, he might not be there for very long.You have to
0:23:22 > 0:23:27handle the power in the right way.A lot of managers go in without the
0:23:27 > 0:23:32say-so to change things, they have to work with it. I agree, of course
0:23:32 > 0:23:36the manager has to do the bulk of the media and representation and be
0:23:36 > 0:23:43the face of the club, but players hide behind the manager. I would
0:23:43 > 0:23:47love to see players do press conferences more. Sometimes it
0:23:47 > 0:23:51happens more in Spain. We see the players talk more. In this country,
0:23:51 > 0:23:57it is the club's fault, they hide, the players hide, they come out when
0:23:57 > 0:24:06things are going well.Yeah! As a manager, you know it is your
0:24:06 > 0:24:12responsibility. It is what it is, that is what you do. Protection
0:24:12 > 0:24:16wise, for players, too much. New captain at the club, player within
0:24:16 > 0:24:20the club, I felt that when I was captain at Swansea and those types
0:24:20 > 0:24:26of places, it was my duty to go out and speak in front of the media. The
0:24:26 > 0:24:29attitude was fine. Nowadays, they bit more of a scared feeling from
0:24:29 > 0:24:33the players in front of the media because of social media and all
0:24:33 > 0:24:37these things and the criticism that comes with it maybe, more timid.
0:24:37 > 0:24:45When they do talk, they generally get a good response, fair play to
0:24:45 > 0:24:49them. The players who talk, you are predisposed... You are not giving
0:24:49 > 0:24:53them an easier ride, but you appreciate the fact they do it, make
0:24:53 > 0:24:58the effort. You understand they are making an effort.When we lost, I
0:24:58 > 0:25:03did an interview, not very often! I felt, here we go, we have lost a
0:25:03 > 0:25:09game, they want me...Everyone remembers the one wheeled out when
0:25:09 > 0:25:17they lose. There you go.Players are allowed to hide behind the manager?
0:25:17 > 0:25:21We are talking about separate things. If you equip the players
0:25:21 > 0:25:25that in the right way, they will come out fighting on the pitch. I
0:25:25 > 0:25:27have a message we stick to as a group. You do not want someone
0:25:27 > 0:25:32talking out of turn. On the pitch, if you're quick them and give them
0:25:32 > 0:25:36the right information on the training pitch, they should come out
0:25:36 > 0:25:39like Lions and Tigers onto the pitch, no one should be timid, that
0:25:39 > 0:25:44is the balance. That would concern me more, how they perform on the
0:25:44 > 0:25:47pitch, than how they do in interviews afterwards.I am looking
0:25:47 > 0:25:52at the bigger picture.We are in the media, we want people to express
0:25:52 > 0:25:56themselves, some players are not comfortable at all, they come out
0:25:56 > 0:26:00onto the football pitch, they turn into different people.Aberdeen 1-1
0:26:00 > 0:26:05Kilmarnock, the score in the early game in Scotland. Let us talk
0:26:05 > 0:26:10positively about managers. Sean Dyche and Ben Mee. If they win this
0:26:10 > 0:26:14afternoon, they will go above Liverpool and Spurs into fourth --
0:26:14 > 0:26:20Sean Dyche and burn me. Conor Macnamara at Turf Moor. 34 years
0:26:20 > 0:26:23since Burnley last beat Arsenal in the league but what an incentive
0:26:23 > 0:26:27today, what a prize on offer. Sean Dyche, quite rightly linked with so
0:26:27 > 0:26:32many other big jobs elsewhere, all down to the improvement he has had
0:26:32 > 0:26:37at Burnley. Eight points more on the board right now than 12 months ago.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40Still good home form, crucially, they have started picking up far
0:26:40 > 0:26:44more points away from home and this season already Burnley have picked
0:26:44 > 0:26:49up more points on their travels than they did in your entirety of last
0:26:49 > 0:26:53campaign. Sean Dyche has kept a tight knit group together, he has
0:26:53 > 0:26:56used fewer players in the Premier League this season than any other
0:26:56 > 0:27:00manager in the top-flight, speaking of squad rotation, Arsenal made the
0:27:00 > 0:27:04full 11 changes for the Europa League on Thursday, you can expect
0:27:04 > 0:27:08Arsene Wenger to bring in the big guns today. The last league game was
0:27:08 > 0:27:11the big win against Tottenham in the north London derby, the best I have
0:27:11 > 0:27:21seen Arsenal play in a long time, but the perennial Arsenal question
0:27:21 > 0:27:23is, can they be consistent? Can they improve, match that performance? Can
0:27:23 > 0:27:26Arsenal be as up for it today against Burnley as they were a week
0:27:26 > 0:27:30ago against Tottenham? Make no mistake, potential place in the top
0:27:30 > 0:27:34four on offer, Sean Dyche's team will be up for this one.
0:27:34 > 0:27:39Thank you for your tweets and texts on Burnley and Sean Dyche. Richard,
0:27:39 > 0:27:43he would be nuts if he left, especially with how he has done so
0:27:43 > 0:27:48far this season. Alexander, brilliant job, 22 points, six wins,
0:27:48 > 0:27:53four draws, respect for that. I suppose he would be mad to leave
0:27:53 > 0:27:58Burnley to a certain extent because everything there is set up how he
0:27:58 > 0:28:02wants it. If you have a managerial blueprint and you want your club to
0:28:02 > 0:28:06follow exactly what you believe in, he has had the time and space to
0:28:06 > 0:28:11develop the club in his mould? Exactly. It is proving now with the
0:28:11 > 0:28:15way they are playing and the results, the stability they have
0:28:15 > 0:28:18had, building the club, what Sean Dyche has done, it has allowed them
0:28:18 > 0:28:23to do what they are doing. The sustainability is there and it is
0:28:23 > 0:28:27key. Everything else outside, Sean Dyche would answer that question
0:28:27 > 0:28:32better himself, but you can only control what you can control. The
0:28:32 > 0:28:38media outside saying this, his move to this, whatever, those links, of
0:28:38 > 0:28:42course, he is ambitious, but he is in an environment where I think he
0:28:42 > 0:28:46can at this moment focus on what he is doing. Because of the way he has
0:28:46 > 0:28:54taken them, he must be enjoying it. Of course, if you go back two, three
0:28:54 > 0:28:59years, the Burnley board stuck with him, they went down, he brought them
0:28:59 > 0:29:05back up, then they move on. All this talk we have had today about
0:29:05 > 0:29:08sackings and hirings and firings... Totally the right decision. He got
0:29:08 > 0:29:12them up in the first place, punching way above their weight to get in the
0:29:12 > 0:29:17Premier League, they had faith in him. We do not know the work the
0:29:17 > 0:29:21managers do behind-the-scenes. He obviously worked really well at
0:29:21 > 0:29:25Burnley. They were unfortunate to go down. One of the things nowadays,
0:29:25 > 0:29:30nobody is prepared to work at a young club, they think, we cannot go
0:29:30 > 0:29:32down, fear of being relegated supersedes everything else. They
0:29:32 > 0:29:37think, we have to change something. Burnley did not do that and rightly
0:29:37 > 0:29:44so. What is great about Sean Dyche is the long-term planning he puts in
0:29:44 > 0:29:49place. The example I was given is James Tarkowski. He went to Burnley,
0:29:49 > 0:29:54did not play, from Brentford, did not play, but Michael Keane goes,
0:29:54 > 0:29:58James Tarkowski is ready to play. Nick Pope from Charlton, relegated
0:29:58 > 0:30:02to League 1, now playing in the Premier League. Managers not being
0:30:02 > 0:30:05given a chance to go through the leagues, players are not being given
0:30:05 > 0:30:10the chance, but this is a club doing it, they are earning the right to be
0:30:10 > 0:30:14in the Premier League. Not enough clubs think, look at League 1,
0:30:14 > 0:30:17League 2, bringing players through. Sean Dyche will be licking his lips
0:30:17 > 0:30:25today because if they win today, top four. Remarkable. They have had
0:30:25 > 0:30:29great results, beat Chelsea away, last year was a problem, James
0:30:29 > 0:30:34Tarkowski, I was at the game at Palace last year, only win away from
0:30:34 > 0:30:38home at that stage of the season, good introduction, you would not
0:30:38 > 0:30:43miss Michael Keane now. The business they have done there. Great results,
0:30:43 > 0:30:48draw at Tottenham, Liverpool. A really good outfit now. They work,
0:30:48 > 0:30:53in-your-face. A contrast of styles. Look at the Arsenal of last week,
0:30:53 > 0:30:56brilliant against Tottenham, but it would be a waste of time if they do
0:30:56 > 0:31:01not make it count against Burnley. You have to earn the right to play
0:31:01 > 0:31:06at Burnley. It will tell us about Arsenal. If they cannot get a result
0:31:06 > 0:31:11today, I cannot see Arsenal getting top four.
0:31:14 > 0:31:21We'll come back to Arsenal shortly. When Jason talks about the forward
0:31:21 > 0:31:27planning, bringing Tarkowski in, but building him up until he's ready, do
0:31:27 > 0:31:31you get that luxury a lot in football? Are you able to say, when
0:31:31 > 0:31:35you think you might lose one of your players 18 months down the line, can
0:31:35 > 0:31:40you start forward planning? Are you given that luxury?Not always. My
0:31:40 > 0:31:45experience with Middlesbrough you know coming in and you want to start
0:31:45 > 0:31:48well and get good results straightaway and start building
0:31:48 > 0:31:55straightaway. There is an instant need for success. My experience at
0:31:55 > 0:31:57Middlesbrough is getting that balance in the back of your mind,
0:31:57 > 0:32:01recruiting for the future. I thought about that in the summer, having for
0:32:01 > 0:32:05the here and now and also in the next few years where they can hit
0:32:05 > 0:32:08their full potential to be able to do something for the club in the
0:32:08 > 0:32:11years to come. As a manager you try to strike that balance with people
0:32:11 > 0:32:15at the club to get the succession planning. It is quite right what
0:32:15 > 0:32:19everyone says here, it's vitally important, but a lot of clubs buy
0:32:19 > 0:32:22for the here and now because we live in an industry where the success has
0:32:22 > 0:32:26to be now. Credit to Burnley, they have shown with that process the
0:32:26 > 0:32:30benefits that come from it.Looking at Chelsea with Mourinho in the
0:32:30 > 0:32:35past. A great manager, but with Salah and De Bruyne, both of those
0:32:35 > 0:32:38players were the future and they were allowed to leave, a shocking
0:32:38 > 0:32:44decision. Even the greatest managers can get it wrong.But there is a
0:32:44 > 0:32:48fine line, because they are there for the future, but they will want
0:32:48 > 0:32:54to play in the here and now.They also probably living in the most
0:32:54 > 0:32:57extreme condition of the instant success needed at that type of club.
0:32:57 > 0:33:03They need to every single week.And they will win.That's right. Ireland
0:33:03 > 0:33:07a few years ago when Ancelotti was manager of Chelsea and had won the
0:33:07 > 0:33:10double. He brought five young players into the first-team squad
0:33:10 > 0:33:14and got sacked at the end of the season. He finished second and got
0:33:14 > 0:33:20sacked. You've brought through Josh McEachran, Van Aanholt, Gael Kakuta.
0:33:20 > 0:33:26But they weren't ready. That makes some managers risk averse. You need
0:33:26 > 0:33:29the faith of the manager and the club in order to be able to do that.
0:33:29 > 0:33:33I think Chelsea are changing, to be fair. They are trying to get younger
0:33:33 > 0:33:37players through because they realise it's gone too far and they can't see
0:33:37 > 0:33:45the continual cycle of players go to other clubs and do brilliantly. The
0:33:45 > 0:33:49cycle of Lukaku and De Bruyne. But at the same time, how do you keep
0:33:49 > 0:33:52these players happy because they need to play. They are great
0:33:52 > 0:33:56talents. You can't hold them back too much. So Nathaniel Chalobah
0:33:56 > 0:34:01leaves this summer because he can't get game time at Chelsea. He goes to
0:34:01 > 0:34:08Watford and does well before he gets injured.Do you have any... What are
0:34:08 > 0:34:12your main concerns for Arsenal against Burnley this afternoon?A
0:34:12 > 0:34:16lot has been said about Ozil and Sanchez. When they lose games, it
0:34:16 > 0:34:22looks like they were wrong to keep them there. Last week, they will go
0:34:22 > 0:34:24with blessing at the end of the season if they play like that. If
0:34:24 > 0:34:29they don't perform today, there are questions again. There is the
0:34:29 > 0:34:33uncertainty about who will replace them and also over the manager. A
0:34:33 > 0:34:37few weeks ago he said he may even go at the end of the season. That seems
0:34:37 > 0:34:40to help them against Tottenham. I think today we will know if they are
0:34:40 > 0:34:46the real Deal or not. It's easy when you play against Tottenham. The game
0:34:46 > 0:34:50is all around you. Every door you open, you have to win. Going to
0:34:50 > 0:34:54Burnley, the weather isn't great. It's raining here in Manchester, not
0:34:54 > 0:35:04far away. It's one of those sticky grounds. It's not the San Siro, is
0:35:04 > 0:35:08it? Take nothing away from Burnley. We'll see if they have the
0:35:08 > 0:35:11ingredients. If you want to be a Premier League winner, it's days
0:35:11 > 0:35:16like today where you win it, not against Tottenham at home.We are
0:35:16 > 0:35:21nearly in December and the weather is miserable in most places, Martin.
0:35:21 > 0:35:26You are defending the area! We have to do with those angry northern
0:35:26 > 0:35:34sentiments all the time! -- the anti-northern sentiments.Talking
0:35:34 > 0:35:38about Mark Hughes. Stoke lost a Crystal Palace yesterday 2-1. There
0:35:38 > 0:35:42were plenty of unhappy Stoke City fans on 606 last night and we can
0:35:42 > 0:35:46hear from the Stoke City manager. It's a game we should never have
0:35:46 > 0:35:52lost, clearly. The game should have been won by a fantastic goal from
0:35:52 > 0:35:59Xherdan Shaqiri. The one real bit of quality in the game for both teams
0:35:59 > 0:36:08in my opinion. We have defended poorly in the both recent games. We
0:36:08 > 0:36:12have had clear-cut chances, but others have punished as. It's a
0:36:12 > 0:36:17similar decision today, two at the far post that we should have dealt
0:36:17 > 0:36:21with. Certainly the second goal. We had two players who needed to clear
0:36:21 > 0:36:26their lines. It is hurting us at the moment. Performances have been OK up
0:36:26 > 0:36:33to a point, but it's all about getting results. We have played two
0:36:33 > 0:36:36games now where we feel we have missed out on opportunities to get
0:36:36 > 0:36:39maximum points in one or both of them. That is the frustration for us
0:36:39 > 0:36:44at the moment.He says performances have been OK up to a point. It's
0:36:44 > 0:36:48fair to say Stoke City fans of social media don't agree with that.
0:36:48 > 0:36:52Mark says Mark Hughes needs to go. Pour in game management. Has
0:36:52 > 0:36:57regressed since it first came. 20 months of dross. Another viewer,
0:36:57 > 0:37:02Hughes is under pressure, and rightly so. He has been awful for
0:37:02 > 0:37:07about two years now. Jason, Stoke and Swansea will both be thinking,
0:37:07 > 0:37:11all the other clubs around them have seen the clubs around them change
0:37:11 > 0:37:18managers. That will make them twitchy.There is a domino effect
0:37:18 > 0:37:22that when one jumps the others feel they have to react. Some have to
0:37:22 > 0:37:26stay strong to outside pressures. If they have faith with managers and
0:37:26 > 0:37:31sticking with them. I think Swansea want to stick with Paul Clement if
0:37:31 > 0:37:34they can. I think Stoke City will stick with Mark Hughes. The owners
0:37:34 > 0:37:37are quite loyal there and they understand what is going on. I
0:37:37 > 0:37:40understand the frustration because it goes to the heart of the issue at
0:37:40 > 0:37:45some clubs. Is survival enough? That's what fans want to see. Stoke
0:37:45 > 0:37:49have been in the Premier League for a long time now. What do they want
0:37:49 > 0:37:52to be? Mark Hughes will say that he has a lot of top ten finishes, which
0:37:52 > 0:37:56he does, but at the moment they are static, treading water. Where are
0:37:56 > 0:38:06they going as a club?Where do you go?Exactly! If you are not in the
0:38:06 > 0:38:12top six. I'm sympathetic to Mark Hughes. I'm not sure where they go.
0:38:12 > 0:38:16People will say that they are below the likes of Brighton. But it's a
0:38:16 > 0:38:21tricky situation. I don't know what the answer is.They tried by taking
0:38:21 > 0:38:25a lot of loanees in. I don't know how much money they have spent. They
0:38:25 > 0:38:29have two home games coming up now where they need to get something. I
0:38:29 > 0:38:36think Liverpool are next.If you are not in the top six, you are either
0:38:36 > 0:38:40in a relegation battle or treading water, aren't you? That is the
0:38:40 > 0:38:45Premier League.You are, but owners like to see progression and
0:38:45 > 0:38:49improvement in the money they are spending. I think he holds himself
0:38:49 > 0:38:52together very well, Mark Hughes. He has changed the system recently,
0:38:52 > 0:38:57trying to play with three at the back. There are issues away from
0:38:57 > 0:39:00home, they conceded a lot of goals last season. That is slightly better
0:39:00 > 0:39:05but they still lose a lot. It's about keeping their heads. The
0:39:05 > 0:39:07criticism he gets makes them more determined to get the results he
0:39:07 > 0:39:13needs. Two home games coming up, Liverpool and Swansea, I think. They
0:39:13 > 0:39:17need to get results in those.When you are at Swansea, what targets and
0:39:17 > 0:39:24ambitions did you set?Talking about that, in terms of a similar
0:39:24 > 0:39:28experience, we had the season where we made the Europa League. We had
0:39:28 > 0:39:33that feeling. And then the first season I had at Swansea we managed
0:39:33 > 0:39:40to finish in eighth. Are the expectation level started to raise.
0:39:40 > 0:39:44The feeling from within, or in my mind is that Swansea is a club that
0:39:44 > 0:39:47needs to be fighting off relegation first and foremost, get to 40
0:39:47 > 0:39:55points, and then progress from there. The expectancy can't be the
0:39:55 > 0:39:59Europa League every single season. It depends on the club you are at,
0:39:59 > 0:40:04the infrastructure and what you can realistically go for. It's a
0:40:04 > 0:40:06difficult one for managers because positions can fluctuate from game to
0:40:06 > 0:40:08game with each manager under pressure in different weeks of the
0:40:08 > 0:40:13season. We saw at the start when Eddie Howe at Bournemouth, they
0:40:13 > 0:40:18couldn't win is to start with and now they have gone on a great run.
0:40:18 > 0:40:20He was getting criticism before that. But each manager will
0:40:20 > 0:40:27understand that.Because you go into football to win. Whether you are a
0:40:27 > 0:40:30player or manager, that's what you want in your career. You don't go
0:40:30 > 0:40:36into it to finish 14th every year. But for a lot of Premier League
0:40:36 > 0:40:39clubs or chairman, that would be fine. Finish 14th, take the money
0:40:39 > 0:40:44and go again.It depends on the internal conversations about the
0:40:44 > 0:40:49owners want the club to be doing. For the manager... Southampton were
0:40:49 > 0:40:53constantly pushing for Europe a couple of years ago. If the
0:40:53 > 0:40:56conversations are, this is the demand, then you know that as the
0:40:56 > 0:41:01manager. If the conversations are not there, and they are where they
0:41:01 > 0:41:05are, if the owners don't say outwardly or internally what you
0:41:05 > 0:41:07want to do, until you are in that club you don't know those
0:41:07 > 0:41:12conversations.It's such a hard balance at times. We have talked
0:41:12 > 0:41:16about how for a lot of clubs it's the fear of being relegated that is
0:41:16 > 0:41:20paramount. As Garry says, your first and last priority is to stay in the
0:41:20 > 0:41:26division. People say you want to progress the club, but how do you do
0:41:26 > 0:41:30that? Looking at the teams around, they spend huge amounts of money, as
0:41:30 > 0:41:36Stoke have done recently. What do you then do? People talk about runs
0:41:36 > 0:41:40in the cup. Clubs don't always do that because they are worried about
0:41:40 > 0:41:43staying in the league. It's a difficult balance. Personally, teams
0:41:43 > 0:41:47that play good football is quite vital. Swansea do play good
0:41:47 > 0:41:52football. They did under Garry. That is quite an important part for me as
0:41:52 > 0:41:58a spectator. I want to watch a game and think, this team will play.
0:41:58 > 0:42:02That's why Eddie Howe, to a degree, has currency in the bank because
0:42:02 > 0:42:06Bournemouth try to play and I think that helps him.And it seems like he
0:42:06 > 0:42:10manages the club right the way through. Bringing all the players
0:42:10 > 0:42:12in, instrumental on the training ground on on match day he makes all
0:42:12 > 0:42:17the decisions during the game. You have to get the results. At the end
0:42:17 > 0:42:21of the day you want to develop players, but you have to play
0:42:21 > 0:42:24purposeful football. In possession of the ball come you play winning
0:42:24 > 0:42:28passes. At the right times of the game when somebody has to keep the
0:42:28 > 0:42:32ball at the corner flag, you are not trying to win a game, its game
0:42:32 > 0:42:34management. The right messages you put through as the manager, making
0:42:34 > 0:42:40sure they do the right thing at the right moment.Just a couple of
0:42:40 > 0:42:42minutes left, how is life at Middlesbrough?Enjoyed it, it was
0:42:42 > 0:42:50good.One of those days yesterday. That is the frustration as a manager
0:42:50 > 0:42:53sometimes. Probably played the best football of our season in the first
0:42:53 > 0:42:57half. Didn't create enough chances and we needed to be clinical. The
0:42:57 > 0:43:00one time they came into our half they scored. Even at half-time, the
0:43:00 > 0:43:07message was the same, to continue in that way. But we shot ourselves in
0:43:07 > 0:43:11the foot in the second half where individual errors and some decisions
0:43:11 > 0:43:15cost us a couple of goals and left us no way back. A frustrating day,
0:43:15 > 0:43:19but in terms of the whole situation, going to Middlesbrough this season.
0:43:19 > 0:43:22We are fighting for consistency at the moment but we are confident for
0:43:22 > 0:43:27the rest of the season.It's not an original thing to say, but it's a
0:43:27 > 0:43:30tight division.It's incredible. It's kind of what we're talking
0:43:30 > 0:43:35about. It is fun in no way. Not always fun. The amount of games you
0:43:35 > 0:43:40play and being able to react. Talking about Southampton today,
0:43:40 > 0:43:48speaking to Jason earlier, it's been a since they have won, but in the
0:43:48 > 0:43:50Premier League you have only probably played four games. In a
0:43:50 > 0:43:53Championship you will have played nine or ten. It's a fun league.
0:43:53 > 0:43:55Thanks very much to Jason, to Martin and great to have
0:43:55 > 0:43:58Garry with us too.
0:43:58 > 0:44:02Me and Martin are off for a Sunday. Goodbye.