:00:25. > :01:03.A great leader inspires people around them. Five out of five. It is
:01:04. > :01:11.England's grand slam. Get your own job right, first. O'Driscoll!
:01:12. > :01:16.Captain fantastic, what a start for Italy. Keep your head up, stand
:01:17. > :01:20.tall. Protocol has been ripped up. Show you are in control, even when
:01:21. > :01:29.you're not. Wales are streaking away. The captain's done it again.
:01:30. > :01:37.Would you believe it? Leadership can be lonely. Don't pretend to know it
:01:38. > :01:39.all. Trust your team-mates. That is going to be the try of the
:01:40. > :01:45.championship. A great victory. It's hard to earn respect and so
:01:46. > :02:00.easy to lose it. They are looking bang up for this,
:02:01. > :02:02.the Irish. Walk the talk. Be selfless, not a selfish. There is
:02:03. > :02:24.the happiest man in Scotland. At the start of another
:02:25. > :02:26.international rugby year, New Zealand remain, even without their
:02:27. > :02:30.greatest leader Richie McCaw, the dominant force in the world game.
:02:31. > :02:33.Welcome to, without a shadow of a doubt, the greatest annual rugby
:02:34. > :02:38.competition in the world, the RBS Six Nations which kicks off here in
:02:39. > :02:41.Edinburgh with Scotland against Ireland. A at Murrayfield fields to
:02:42. > :02:50.a caustic Celtic collision. They have been playing rugby at
:02:51. > :02:56.Murrayfield since 1925, served by trains and trams these days and in
:02:57. > :03:01.1975 a record 105,000 people were here to see Scotland play Wales.
:03:02. > :03:05.That's a match that you can see on the BBC in three weeks' time. These
:03:06. > :03:09.days much more manageable, 68,000, thereabouts, will be here this
:03:10. > :03:12.afternoon for Scotland against Ireland. It is safe to say amongst
:03:13. > :03:17.the best seats in the house we are lucky to say they are occupied by
:03:18. > :03:21.us. Here we are in the far corner of the ground. Good afternoon and
:03:22. > :03:25.welcome, wherever you may be, pubs, clubs, this country, broad,
:03:26. > :03:30.wherever. We look forward to what will be an epic few weeks ahead.
:03:31. > :03:34.Pace yourself, it's a long afternoon and championship ahead. We will
:03:35. > :03:39.enjoy the company of, amongst others, Jeremy Guscott, Keith Wood,
:03:40. > :03:45.Chris Paterson and Paul O'Connell. Who has just taken his hat off. We
:03:46. > :03:48.had a funny joke about the Irish always wearing hats and that's been
:03:49. > :03:53.blown out of the water in the first minute! As the man who has most
:03:54. > :03:57.recently been party to this on the field of play, what's it like to be
:03:58. > :04:01.involved in the Six Nations an owl and ten minutes from kick off? Very
:04:02. > :04:04.exciting. A different sense of occasions to the autumn
:04:05. > :04:09.internationals to the Sun International. -- and hour and ten.
:04:10. > :04:13.With an hour to go, the players are probably on princess street, that is
:04:14. > :04:17.where the Irish team stay. The young guys have their headphones on, the
:04:18. > :04:20.old guys are stretching. About 1000 fans outside the door of the hotel
:04:21. > :04:24.waiting for you to get on the bus and once you on the bus and you go
:04:25. > :04:28.through the crowd, it's a great feeling. Really nervous feeling. You
:04:29. > :04:31.know what's coming, you get ready for battle. It really exciting time
:04:32. > :04:36.in any player's career. When you talk to people in the street, they
:04:37. > :04:40.say it's amazing how this tournament seems to get bigger and bigger every
:04:41. > :04:47.year, do you sense that as well? I do. Everyday I think, cannot get any
:04:48. > :04:52.better, bigger and stronger? Every year I think can it get. Expectation
:04:53. > :04:58.is the greatest, biggest... Area I can look at. We are all chatting to
:04:59. > :05:02.friends. What they are thinking about, each team, how it's going to
:05:03. > :05:07.go. Up to the last minute, they can change their mind. It's brilliant, I
:05:08. > :05:12.love it all. A Scottish perspective? There is a palpable sense, not just
:05:13. > :05:16.optimism that a real expectation. We haven't had that in the past. There
:05:17. > :05:20.is optimism every time Scotland take the field, especially at the start
:05:21. > :05:25.of the championship but after a good autumn some fantastic players
:05:26. > :05:28.playing critically well for clubs in the domestic leagues it is looking
:05:29. > :05:33.pretty good. It'll be a tough test. What is the major change to the
:05:34. > :05:37.format of the Six Nations? Bonus points. It will only be influential
:05:38. > :05:39.if actually it comes to pass where the matches are seven points
:05:40. > :05:44.differential is or people start scoring tries. The key element is
:05:45. > :05:50.the winner going fast and this happens afterwards as a consequence.
:05:51. > :05:53.-- going first. If you're not a seasoned rugby observer and do not
:05:54. > :06:00.know the bonus point system, watcher points for a win, not two. One extra
:06:01. > :06:04.points -- four points for a win. When you lose, you get one bonus
:06:05. > :06:08.point if you score four tries, irrespective of what the score is.
:06:09. > :06:12.If it is 78-20 but you have scored four tries, you get a bonus point.
:06:13. > :06:16.One bonus point for losing by fewer than seven irrespective of the
:06:17. > :06:22.school. In terms of the number of points -- the score. One bonus point
:06:23. > :06:25.for scoring four tries and three points for a grand slam. Do you
:06:26. > :06:29.think that will have a material impact on who actually wins, March
:06:30. > :06:32.18? In the history it could have done but I don't think it was
:06:33. > :06:36.necessary. Six Nations Came out yesterday and they said it was
:06:37. > :06:39.inherently unfair and may last for one season and then we'll be gone.
:06:40. > :06:43.They are under pressure to do something to change it up
:06:44. > :06:47.unnecessarily. In many respects, you kind of like the friction that
:06:48. > :06:52.happens at the very end, not guessing... I never liked the idea
:06:53. > :06:55.of a losing bonus point. The idea that if we do really well in the
:06:56. > :06:59.last five minutes, we may lose by less than seven and that seems like
:07:00. > :07:06.a good thing. That's a vote against, in favour or against? I'm against
:07:07. > :07:09.it. I like it. I think for the championship point it will make a
:07:10. > :07:12.big difference but I'm not sure it will have a bearing on the opening
:07:13. > :07:16.weekend. I thought it would be more that the last couple of games but
:07:17. > :07:20.Eddie Jones said his team will be absolutely daring and Vern Cotter
:07:21. > :07:26.said he had options in attack which allows them to continually attack
:07:27. > :07:32.the opposition. I am not sure. Where are you? I enjoy it. I enjoyed
:07:33. > :07:34.European cup the last two week, the permutations and calculations, I
:07:35. > :07:40.enjoyed that when I was a player. I am for it. We will find out over the
:07:41. > :07:44.next five weekend 's, the next seven weeks. We ought to mention world
:07:45. > :07:48.rankings. This is the last batch of matches where teams can influence
:07:49. > :07:50.their position in terms of the draw for the next World Cup. The key
:07:51. > :07:56.thing, you want to finish in the top That is supposedly gives you an
:07:57. > :08:02.easier draw when it comes to the World Cup in Japan. The teams have
:08:03. > :08:07.gotten better, top ten, 12 have been really strong. When you get in at
:08:08. > :08:10.number eight, you still don't get the best draw. Ireland want to make
:08:11. > :08:14.sure they are in the top four, they don't want to allow themselves to
:08:15. > :08:18.drop out of that. But it can play a huge bearing. We've seen big matches
:08:19. > :08:22.in World Cup that had been set up two of three years beforehand and
:08:23. > :08:28.that is the instance. They want to win the match but they will have
:08:29. > :08:32.that in the back of the next hour and ten minutes before kick off at
:08:33. > :08:33.Murrayfield. We will hear from some of the most influential figures in
:08:34. > :08:42.the game. These days, none more important than
:08:43. > :08:46.the referee. Wayne Barnes talks high tackles and law changes.
:08:47. > :08:51.Richie McCaw offers an All Black perspective on the Six Nations and
:08:52. > :08:54.the Lions as Warren Gatland having forsaken Wales looks for the players
:08:55. > :08:58.who can win in New Zealand this summer.
:08:59. > :09:08.And talking of challenges, Connor O'Shea is the new man in charge of
:09:09. > :09:11.Italy. Optimism with realism is his philosophy. And we had players like
:09:12. > :09:16.Conor Murray, the Irish scrum-half will surely be heading off with the
:09:17. > :09:20.Lions next summer barring injury. Hours will Scottish full-back Stuart
:09:21. > :09:24.Hogg. Before that, the men in blue and green and the men in white,
:09:25. > :09:28.there's a Six Nations to be won. England are favourites, 13 matches
:09:29. > :09:32.in 2016 and 13 wins under currently every Englishman's favourite
:09:33. > :09:46.Australian, Eddie Jones. We went to Portugal to meet him.
:09:47. > :09:54.The Six Nations was unfamiliar to you a year ago, did it surprise you,
:09:55. > :09:57.in a way, that caught you off-guard? I remember someone saying everyone
:09:58. > :10:05.hates England and they are right, everyone does hate England. But, you
:10:06. > :10:09.know, in a good sense. There is such traditional rivalry between England,
:10:10. > :10:15.Ireland, Scotland, Wales. And then you've got the two European
:10:16. > :10:18.countries. Italy and France. Which provide a different challenge. But I
:10:19. > :10:20.thought the rugby in the first couple of rounds was pretty
:10:21. > :10:25.ordinary. It improved towards the last three rounds. One of our major
:10:26. > :10:30.goals is to hit the Road running this year. To play really well in
:10:31. > :10:32.the first game. With the injuries England have got, perversely, as a
:10:33. > :10:37.coach, does that give you the opportunity to learn more about your
:10:38. > :10:41.skills in adapting, so you can keep England moving forward in the right
:10:42. > :10:44.direction? We are missing two of our biggest ball-carriers, one of our
:10:45. > :10:49.highest were great players. We've got to put together now, a pack that
:10:50. > :10:53.won't have those stand-up ball-carriers. We need to do players
:10:54. > :10:57.to do a bit more. Our ability to get those art of players is crucial. Had
:10:58. > :11:00.you got anything wrong in the last 12 months that you would admit to?
:11:01. > :11:07.-- get those out of place. Selection wrong, if you play as well. In every
:11:08. > :11:11.test you waste on a player is vital. When you go to the World Cup in
:11:12. > :11:14.2019, everyone knows you need as many experienced players as you can,
:11:15. > :11:20.every cap counts. That's why you need somewhere between 600 at 800
:11:21. > :11:22.caps. When I play players in tests that won't make the World Cup, I
:11:23. > :11:32.feel like I've made a mistake. It is England's grand slam. We've
:11:33. > :11:37.set the bar high in your first year in charge. How on earth do you
:11:38. > :11:43.follow that? -- you set. It's nice to be unbeaten but we didn't play
:11:44. > :11:48.well in that many games. We got some victories, particularly in Australia
:11:49. > :11:52.but we didn't play well. For me, obviously, we'd like to go through
:11:53. > :11:55.undefeated this season but I would want us to play somebody go rugby.
:11:56. > :12:01.It starts with France in the first game of the Six Nations. What about
:12:02. > :12:06.developing leaders in this team as a target? For this next 12 months?
:12:07. > :12:10.Well, to get better, there's a couple of things we want to do. One
:12:11. > :12:13.is to increase the depth of the squad, generally. Two, improve the
:12:14. > :12:19.fundamental skills of the players, so that... I think the game is
:12:20. > :12:23.becoming so chaotic, but your ability to adapt is so important.
:12:24. > :12:27.Therefore, the ability to be skilful is so important. Also, a line with
:12:28. > :12:31.that. Because the game is becoming more chaotic, you need to have a
:12:32. > :12:36.greater number of leaders in your team. You go back to the 2003
:12:37. > :12:39.England team. They had eight or nine guys that you knew, every time they
:12:40. > :12:43.played a game of rugby, they were going to give everything they had.
:12:44. > :12:47.They were going to make sure people around them gave everything they
:12:48. > :12:51.had. They were strong leaders. We don't have that now. Which is not a
:12:52. > :12:55.criticism of our squad. But it's a place we need to go. What do you see
:12:56. > :12:59.in Dylan Hartley as a leader that some people might not?
:13:00. > :13:07.What I like about Dylan is that he is prepared to tell people what to
:13:08. > :13:10.do. If the team is not doing what we require of them, he's quite happy to
:13:11. > :13:14.take a team meeting and tell the players. It doesn't matter whether
:13:15. > :13:21.they are all the players or much younger players he tells them.
:13:22. > :13:27.That's quite a unique ability -- they are older players or younger
:13:28. > :13:32.players. Do you feel a bit English, now? After a year in charge? I
:13:33. > :13:36.certainly love the team. I really love the players. I love working
:13:37. > :13:41.with them. I'll always be in Australian. But I love coaching
:13:42. > :13:46.England. What's the best bits that drives you to get up at 6am every
:13:47. > :13:51.morning, as I know you do? We have a chance to do something to do
:13:52. > :13:55.something different here. We have the chance to be one of the greatest
:13:56. > :13:59.England sides, play a different brand of rugby that hasn't been seen
:14:00. > :14:02.before. Particularly, New Zealand have been dominant for the last
:14:03. > :14:06.five, six, eight years. Everyone's tried to copy the way they've played
:14:07. > :14:15.but we want to play our own style of rugby to show you cant beat New
:14:16. > :14:19.Zealand. -- you can beat New Zealand. Only eight coaches have won
:14:20. > :14:24.the Rugby World Cup. How much are you consumed by joining that list?
:14:25. > :14:28.You would love to do it. As a player, you want to win the biggest
:14:29. > :14:32.trophy. As a coach you want to win the biggest trophy. But the
:14:33. > :14:37.consequence of coaching well. And putting a good team together. If we
:14:38. > :14:40.keep developing and keep improving, keep improving the leadership
:14:41. > :14:46.density of our team, we will be in a position to win the World Cup.
:14:47. > :14:56.Eddie Jones. That was recorded. Dummett before the curious incident
:14:57. > :15:00.of the eye in the bathroom. Is this proof positive of the influence
:15:01. > :15:03.coach can have on players? Coaches are integral to the success of a
:15:04. > :15:10.team. Each have their own individual and unique style. Sir Clive Woodward
:15:11. > :15:13.was very much a manager in the style of Rod Macqueen who was there for
:15:14. > :15:18.Australia, very much business management attitude and looked
:15:19. > :15:21.towards it, strategic and tactical command he got the good coaches in
:15:22. > :15:25.to implement his ideas and thoughts on the training paddock and it
:15:26. > :15:28.worked and was successful. You can use facts and figures to prove
:15:29. > :15:31.anything, if we look at the percentage records of the coaches
:15:32. > :15:34.involved in the Six Nations over the course of the next weeks it is
:15:35. > :15:44.surprising that Joe Schmidt's win record is only 67%. That is two
:15:45. > :15:49.thirds. You played under so many great coaches and perhaps one or two
:15:50. > :15:53.you may have reservations about. What are the things you think to
:15:54. > :15:56.find a good coach? The elements come from being the right coach at the
:15:57. > :16:01.right time with the right team and sometimes happens too early and
:16:02. > :16:07.sometimes to light. I had Brian Ashton as a technical coach and
:16:08. > :16:12.skills coach who was incredible but came at a time when it didn't seem
:16:13. > :16:16.to fit the bill for Ireland and we had Warren Gatland in 98, the right
:16:17. > :16:22.guy at the right time to do the job Ireland needed, consistency of
:16:23. > :16:26.selection. The right coach is the guy who understands what he needs
:16:27. > :16:29.for that team at that time. What Eddie Jones has done is given the
:16:30. > :16:33.English team a sense of confidence and belief in themselves to go out
:16:34. > :16:36.and win. He has a lot of structure as well but he has made them feel
:16:37. > :16:40.bigger than they were because they were downbeat before coming into
:16:41. > :16:45.last year's Six Nations. Warren Gatland will be joining us in a few
:16:46. > :16:49.moments to talk about the Lions and his affiliation to Wales which I'm
:16:50. > :16:52.sure he hasn't put on the back burner for the next couple of weeks.
:16:53. > :16:56.What is your take on the pluses and minuses of the people you worked
:16:57. > :17:00.under? Similar to what has been said already but I wanted to improve, I
:17:01. > :17:05.was selfish as a player and wanted to coach to make me better, loan a
:17:06. > :17:09.new skill or improve a skill is what I thought a coach should do. You
:17:10. > :17:12.will hear it said often a good coach needs good players which I think is
:17:13. > :17:18.coach, true but any coach should make a player that and it is about
:17:19. > :17:22.development. -- learn a new skill. A guy called Rob Moffat, who was my
:17:23. > :17:26.schoolteacher as well as professional coach at Edinburgh,
:17:27. > :17:29.educating and improvement was key for me. In many ways it's the polar
:17:30. > :17:33.opposite to Joe Schmidt but in a lot of ways very similar, he seems so
:17:34. > :17:36.clear in what he believes and what he is saying. That is what I found
:17:37. > :17:41.when I started working under Joe Schmidt, we got absolute clarity on
:17:42. > :17:43.what was expected of us on the field. When you have that you are
:17:44. > :17:49.able to make a really good decisions and can make up physicality. I see
:17:50. > :17:53.similarities between the approaches. Can you give us an insight into the
:17:54. > :17:56.minutiae of detail that the best coaches going to and hand over to
:17:57. > :18:01.you which then improves your performance on the field? One thing
:18:02. > :18:04.we had with Ireland was we had a very narrow field we were expected
:18:05. > :18:12.to be good at. A lot of coaches wanted to you to be a jack of all
:18:13. > :18:16.trades, Joe Schmidt narrows it down and wants players to be world-class
:18:17. > :18:19.with a very small field of skills which allows you to chase down those
:18:20. > :18:22.small set of skills every week instead of chasing down a big wide
:18:23. > :18:26.range of skills. That was a big thing for me towards the end of my
:18:27. > :18:31.career and made a Matip. Mac massive difference. Stopped practising drop
:18:32. > :18:36.kicking and that kind of thing? Exactly. How good could England be?
:18:37. > :18:38.I go along the lines of what Eddie said, they haven't reached their
:18:39. > :18:43.full potential and are not playing their best games but have huge
:18:44. > :18:49.confidence, 14 wins in a row, big statement. To start off at home
:18:50. > :18:52.against France is comfortable for them in the arena and surroundings
:18:53. > :18:57.they are used to. The players that have grown the most that are very
:18:58. > :19:00.influential, Owen Farrell. Increment elite I think over a season he has
:19:01. > :19:07.just got better and better. He knocks over those penalties really
:19:08. > :19:11.in his stride. He is really comfortable. England are good. Given
:19:12. > :19:14.that a few players are missing and Eddie Jones alluded to that,
:19:15. > :19:17.nonetheless, the strength in depth of the English Premiership is such
:19:18. > :19:22.that you almost don't notice some of those players are missing. A big
:19:23. > :19:26.part of England's strength is their 23, not just their starting 15. Even
:19:27. > :19:30.with all of the injuries they have had they can dig deep, as you said,
:19:31. > :19:35.going into the resources and bringing in these players. I look at
:19:36. > :19:39.the bench, George is still there, Sinckler, Haskell, Danny Care, it is
:19:40. > :19:43.power and pace and that's the big difference. If you have lots about
:19:44. > :19:46.in your site you will have a big impact. Talking about injuries, one
:19:47. > :19:51.of the big red hot issues in rugby at the moment is the incidence of
:19:52. > :19:55.head injuries and concussions that affect the game, not just on the
:19:56. > :19:59.international arena but in the club game as well. This is the first Six
:20:00. > :20:02.Nations under a new directive from the world rugby organisation about
:20:03. > :20:06.high tackles and what sanctions will be imposed in the event of foul
:20:07. > :20:10.play. It is not as straightforward as it might seem so we sent Jerry to
:20:11. > :20:13.talk to Wayne Barnes, one of the most influential figures in rugby,
:20:14. > :20:19.to talk about what has changed and what has not.
:20:20. > :20:25.Thank you for coming in today, Wayne. Has been so much chat the
:20:26. > :20:29.tackle guidelines. Let's get one thing straight from the beginning,
:20:30. > :20:33.the laws have not changed, have they? It is just the sanctions. Spot
:20:34. > :20:37.on, nothing has changed from a refereeing perspective, the high
:20:38. > :20:40.tackle, which was a high tackle going this weekend into the first
:20:41. > :20:43.and opening game, will have been a high tackle a year ago and a high
:20:44. > :20:47.tackle ten years ago. The only thing that has changed is the sanction. If
:20:48. > :20:51.you get sent off or cited rather than getting a two-week ban you
:20:52. > :20:56.might get a three or four week ban, so the analogy would be the driving
:20:57. > :21:00.speed limit is still 30 mph, the same, but if you get caught you get
:21:01. > :21:03.five or six points rather than three. We have some clips here,
:21:04. > :21:08.let's just have a look through what we have got. We look at this clip, a
:21:09. > :21:13.player played in the air, Heilan is extremely dangerously and this is a
:21:14. > :21:17.red card. It's always going to be a red card. He knows what he has done
:21:18. > :21:21.wrong straightaway, doesn't he? Yes. We want to protect players and make
:21:22. > :21:25.sure players' heads are protected and this is a way of doing it.
:21:26. > :21:29.Something else to have a look at, we see players being cleaned out, but
:21:30. > :21:33.what we are saying is don't go and lead with the shoulder to play on
:21:34. > :21:38.the floor, so not only in the air but on the floor as well. Is that an
:21:39. > :21:43.immediate red? That is between a yellow and a red because of weather
:21:44. > :21:48.contact is, on the body. And if it was on the head? Easily a red card.
:21:49. > :21:51.Let's look at these tackles, director the head, with force at
:21:52. > :21:57.speed, that is a red card if you see that during the Six Nations -- where
:21:58. > :22:03.the contact is. He will get a long ban if he is sent off or cited for
:22:04. > :22:07.that. Back to the red cards, not as much force on that one, shoulder up
:22:08. > :22:10.into the head, but we are still talking of a card on this because
:22:11. > :22:15.the aim is to get the tackles slightly lower. He's already started
:22:16. > :22:18.high, probably recklessly high to start because he is not tackling low
:22:19. > :22:26.so that would be a yellow card most days. There is a judgment for you
:22:27. > :22:30.guys, the difference between accidental and reckless. Yes, when
:22:31. > :22:34.you get stepped and put out an arm. It is a reflex. If you tickle
:22:35. > :22:37.someone over the face, or the one over the shoulder, I've heard it
:22:38. > :22:40.called the seat belt tackle, you get over the top but your arm makes
:22:41. > :22:43.contact with the head, those are the ones we have to use common sense as
:22:44. > :22:47.referees and understand some players are trying to make a legitimate
:22:48. > :22:50.tackle but get it slightly wrong. We discussed that one as a group last
:22:51. > :22:56.Thursday and we thought that one looked like a penalty. And a similar
:22:57. > :22:59.one here, South Africa- England game, again, slips up, hits the
:23:00. > :23:06.shoulder and Brown carries on running, doesn't he? There is that
:23:07. > :23:09.grey area between the penalty and the yellow. Sometimes between a
:23:10. > :23:13.yellow and a red. If we have any doubt we will give the benefit to
:23:14. > :23:16.the player. If we are thinking this might be a red card we are thinking
:23:17. > :23:20.this might be a red card we're not going to make what is a massive
:23:21. > :23:24.decision unless we are certain. Wynter players come together we get
:23:25. > :23:27.head on head clashing, this isn't foul play, this isn't going to be
:23:28. > :23:33.carded, this isn't going to be penalise. That is just an
:23:34. > :23:39.unfortunate incident in the game -- when two players. That is still part
:23:40. > :23:42.of the game, there is still room for the massive legal tangle. That is
:23:43. > :23:45.why people watch the game, that is not what this is about, it is about
:23:46. > :23:51.the illegal tackles and direct tackles to the head. We want to see
:23:52. > :23:55.12 is being tackled. Taking an overview of what we have talked
:23:56. > :23:58.about? In the past tackles were perhaps aim here and we want to make
:23:59. > :24:01.them consider coming down a little bit and then run the risk of it
:24:02. > :24:07.slipping high or hitting high. If they do and looking at those things,
:24:08. > :24:11.is it foul play? If it is, force and speed and direct to the head. You
:24:12. > :24:14.will hear those words when discussing it between our team and
:24:15. > :24:20.hopefully you will understand where our decisions have come from. Thank
:24:21. > :24:23.you. You were one of the people involved in changing or at least
:24:24. > :24:28.making this directive. What was the main motivation behind
:24:29. > :24:31.it? Play at safety or the image of the game? Player safety, one of the
:24:32. > :24:34.things is the majority of concussions happen in the tackle,
:24:35. > :24:38.happening to the tackle and most importantly they happen with the
:24:39. > :24:42.tackle high bringing the tackle at down. If you look at the last
:24:43. > :24:49.collision between Bastareaud and Sexton, if his tackle was two feet
:24:50. > :24:52.lower there is no head collision. If Bastareaud is a foot or two lower
:24:53. > :24:56.that accidental head collision doesn't happen and that is where a
:24:57. > :25:00.lot of the concussions come from, shoulder to head and head to head.
:25:01. > :25:05.That is the point of the directive, not to protect the ball carrier as
:25:06. > :25:08.such, to protect the tackle. That is one of the few issues I have that
:25:09. > :25:12.instance of a player standing up into the tackle and hitting with his
:25:13. > :25:15.head and Wayne Barnes said that is just an unfortunate collision but
:25:16. > :25:19.until such point that that collision level comes down, which is this
:25:20. > :25:23.directive is trying to lead to, the margin for error on some of those
:25:24. > :25:28.tackles and some of those sanctions are only an inch or two inches, so
:25:29. > :25:33.you can hit across the chest with a proper tackle, if a guy dips or
:25:34. > :25:37.ducks into that accidentally or not accidentally, it can lead to a
:25:38. > :25:40.higher sanction. The query is as to whether that level has to come lower
:25:41. > :25:45.still. That is one of them. This is a step towards it. But the nasty
:25:46. > :25:50.element of this is there are two or three concussions, concussive
:25:51. > :25:53.incidents, happening every game. That cannot continue so hopefully
:25:54. > :25:57.this goes some way towards that but it may need to go further in time.
:25:58. > :26:01.The increased sanction is a warning and the coaches cannot ignore it.
:26:02. > :26:05.They must coach the players to tackle Lola, they cannot take the
:26:06. > :26:09.risk. The weight Wayne Barnes described that and summarised the
:26:10. > :26:16.tackles was excellent. The last one, Buster and Sexton, was maybe country
:26:17. > :26:23.-- contradictory because he could have gone lower. If you train lower
:26:24. > :26:28.it will not be an issue. That was a complete accident, this game is
:26:29. > :26:31.physical. You shouldn't shirk away from confrontation. If Bastareaud or
:26:32. > :26:34.any player wants to stand tall they should be allowed. One or two people
:26:35. > :26:39.this week have said the game is going soft, you expect this kind of
:26:40. > :26:42.comment, it is a physical and confrontational game and this is
:26:43. > :26:47.making it less so. How could you counter that? It has not gone soft
:26:48. > :26:53.at all and Bastareaud, if he is two feet lower it is a bigger hit.
:26:54. > :27:00.Tackle technique, good, accurate, low hard tackles will always give
:27:01. > :27:03.you that. You spend time with Wayne Barnes. If they implement this to
:27:04. > :27:06.the law we could have an awful lot of yellow cards which might have a
:27:07. > :27:09.major impact on the number of points scored in the game in the wake that
:27:10. > :27:13.matches pan out as a consequence and coaches will be very aware of that.
:27:14. > :27:18.As Chris has said the coaches have to coach, the way that it should be
:27:19. > :27:23.tackled by the guidelines, and if anybody steps out, or we want from
:27:24. > :27:26.the referees is consistency. We don't want one decision is a penalty
:27:27. > :27:31.and one decision is a yellow for a similar incident. It has to be
:27:32. > :27:34.consistent. We will see how that pans out during the course of the
:27:35. > :27:38.championship which we love so much because of the domestic rivalries.
:27:39. > :27:40.But it is a global event and I'm sure many thousands of people will
:27:41. > :27:45.stay up into the early hours of Sunday morning to watch this match.
:27:46. > :27:48.Here is a question, who is the greatest All Black of all-time?
:27:49. > :27:53.Possibly, probably Richie McCaw and his life story reads like something
:27:54. > :27:56.from a film script. Twice a World Cup winner, twice a World Cup
:27:57. > :28:01.captain, and actually as a consequence of that, they have made
:28:02. > :28:04.a film about it. It's called Chasing Great and chronicles the year up to
:28:05. > :28:16.the All Blacks winning the World Cup here two years ago.
:28:17. > :28:22.So Richie McCaw, movie star, you must be thrilled with it, it is a
:28:23. > :28:29.fantastic watch. All of the feedback has been pretty positive. To give an
:28:30. > :28:32.insight into what you felt and how you saw things, it wasn't that easy
:28:33. > :28:37.because it wasn't natural. But I'm really happy I did. When those
:28:38. > :28:41.moments came, the last time you would play test rugby, it did look
:28:42. > :28:46.like you were able to just take all that in and absorb the appreciation.
:28:47. > :28:50.If there is one thing I look back on, it was always going on to the
:28:51. > :28:54.next thing, you didn't stop and appreciate what the team had done,
:28:55. > :28:58.or what you had done. I knew the last year I wanted to enjoy it but
:28:59. > :29:03.also not crawl to the end, I wanted to be there so I was playing like I
:29:04. > :29:07.had when I was younger. Who do you look at now in world rugby? The
:29:08. > :29:12.players you enjoyed playing against. You look at it differently when you
:29:13. > :29:17.are not going to compete against them. I appreciate more what they
:29:18. > :29:21.do. I know I had some good battles against Sean O'Brien but probably
:29:22. > :29:25.didn't sit and appreciate what a good player he is, I thought I would
:29:26. > :29:28.have a tough match playing him next, you sit and appreciate that rather
:29:29. > :29:32.than thinking how can I stop that guy? It is a different way of
:29:33. > :29:36.looking at it. Six Nations is upon us and England went the whole of
:29:37. > :29:39.last year as an unbeaten test side and go into this tournament as the
:29:40. > :29:47.team to beat. It is quite intriguing. I feel there is very
:29:48. > :29:54.little between the teams. Even the All Blacks were beaten and the
:29:55. > :29:57.Australians. It has added spice to the whole thing. You could say
:29:58. > :30:00.England are the favourites but there are some tough matches when you look
:30:01. > :30:03.at the Irish and the French, I thought they were quite impressive
:30:04. > :30:08.in the game against the All Blacks. It won't take much to swing around
:30:09. > :30:10.again. What do you make of the comments Eddie Jones has come out
:30:11. > :30:16.with that there aren't enough world-class players in the Six
:30:17. > :30:21.Nations? I think he's using that as a bit of motivation. He talked about
:30:22. > :30:25.consistency is what he was meaning to be a top-class player and team
:30:26. > :30:30.you've got to do it every week. That is obviously what he's aiming for.
:30:31. > :30:36.Not just happy with what happened last year, that they go and do it
:30:37. > :30:40.again. There are players who for a British and Irish Lions tour is a
:30:41. > :30:45.big thing, do they get stoked up about the idea of the Lions coming
:30:46. > :30:53.down at the All Blacks? Absolutely, it is huge. You get one chance at it
:30:54. > :30:57.in your career. It is every 12 years for you guys. Yes and the guys are
:30:58. > :30:59.pretty excited by it. They realise you get one chance and if you blow
:31:00. > :31:09.it you might not get another go. Nobody more interested in what would
:31:10. > :31:14.you call was saying more than Warren Gatland. Even when you hear him
:31:15. > :31:17.talking like that, even you, a seasoned campaigner, as you are, do
:31:18. > :31:22.you immediately get the sense of excitement in your bones?
:31:23. > :31:26.Absolutely. I think New Zealand are really excited about the Lions'
:31:27. > :31:31.tool. It's been 12 years. There's a real sense of anticipation about
:31:32. > :31:35.potentially what could happen. Particularly after the way the
:31:36. > :31:38.northern hemisphere teams performed in the autumn. Created more
:31:39. > :31:42.anticipation. Is it fair to say taking a Lions team to New Zealand
:31:43. > :31:46.is the biggest challenge any coach can face? It is a huge challenge. It
:31:47. > :31:49.wasn't until I left New Zealand but I realised and understood what a
:31:50. > :31:54.difficult country it is to go and tour and play and perform and to
:31:55. > :31:59.win. It is a huge challenge. Hopefully some of that insight,
:32:00. > :32:03.knowledge, that those experiences might potentially make that
:32:04. > :32:05.difference. In your mind, how many of the touring party had you, kind
:32:06. > :32:13.of, got inked in already? At the moment, there's quite a few.
:32:14. > :32:17.Look at the performances, particularly Ireland beating the All
:32:18. > :32:21.Blacks in Chicago. The performances in the autumn. There's probably a
:32:22. > :32:25.number of players pencilled in at the moment but today's resolve could
:32:26. > :32:28.turn it upside down. If Scotland win today, France beat England, Wales
:32:29. > :32:36.lose tomorrow, it's going to create a huge headache for me. On form at
:32:37. > :32:41.the moment, I would pick a squad of 37, 38, you could probably pencil in
:32:42. > :32:45.15-20 years on their performances. But results, like I said, individual
:32:46. > :32:50.performances in the Six Nations will count. How many names are pencilled
:32:51. > :32:55.into the possible captains' list? A huge amount. No doubt. As Paul
:32:56. > :32:58.understands. About the captain and the pressures. The thing about the
:32:59. > :33:04.captain, I will pick the squad first and then I will choose the captain.
:33:05. > :33:08.The captain will be well aware it is a great honour to be selected in the
:33:09. > :33:10.Lions but no guarantees. If someone is in your position and playing
:33:11. > :33:16.better than you, potentially somebody else will play in the tests
:33:17. > :33:21.and captain the test side. In 2013, we were lucky enough to go to Hong
:33:22. > :33:25.Kong for a week. We trained hard, but we had a few nights out as well.
:33:26. > :33:30.There won't be a lot of time for that in New Zealand. How will you
:33:31. > :33:32.manage... You will have the assistance, players, defence,
:33:33. > :33:35.attack, line-out. How will you become a team that is really ready
:33:36. > :33:40.to play for each other, the Test series? It is going to be tough.
:33:41. > :33:45.Paul, that's the biggest challenge we got at the moment. In terms of
:33:46. > :33:50.the schedules of the games, I think they're great. 2009, 2013, we won
:33:51. > :33:57.some games by 60, 70 points, but that is note preparation for the
:33:58. > :33:59.Test match. In Super Rugby, that is fantastic preparation in terms of
:34:00. > :34:05.how tough it is. But the first time we assembled on a Sunday after the
:34:06. > :34:09.Pro12 and the Premiership final, we fly on the Monday at a rival New
:34:10. > :34:14.Zealand on Wednesday. The first game is on a Saturday. How do you
:34:15. > :34:19.manufacture that? The best thing for a touring party is to have a couple
:34:20. > :34:22.of beers together, enjoy yourself. The first night after the game, we
:34:23. > :34:28.will look to try and... We've got some days off without being stupid.
:34:29. > :34:33.But we got to try and bond as quickly as we can. Everybody loves a
:34:34. > :34:38.good conspiracy theory. There is a lot of people who think that you had
:34:39. > :34:41.influence on Rob Howley in Alun Wyn Jones becoming the Welsh captain
:34:42. > :34:44.because you see him as your captain in the summer. What would you like
:34:45. > :34:50.to say to that? That is an absolute conspiracy theory. What I've tried
:34:51. > :34:54.to do is to make sure that Rob's had autonomy in that role. We talk on a
:34:55. > :34:58.regular basis but I purposely made sure I'd stayed away from that. He
:34:59. > :35:03.makes all the calls, the decisions. He spoke to me about Alun Wyn Jones
:35:04. > :35:07.doing the job and I said it's your call, you've got to... You're in
:35:08. > :35:10.charge of the team, you've got to run the team. Me trying to step
:35:11. > :35:15.away, I'm trying to... It's difficult. I'm passionate about
:35:16. > :35:19.Wales and him doing well but having some neutrality with people thinking
:35:20. > :35:23.about the selection being fair, unbiased. Everybody has a fair and
:35:24. > :35:26.equal chance. It will be hard for you to be neutral in Cardiff next
:35:27. > :35:33.weekend. Will you be screaming "Offside". Well you say "Miss it" if
:35:34. > :35:37.Owen Farrell has one open in front of the posts? Not at all. My heart
:35:38. > :35:41.is with Wales. When I was coaching Ireland I was desperate for them to
:35:42. > :35:45.do well. When I coach the Wasps it was the same, you want them to do
:35:46. > :35:49.well. And the same with Wales. Of course you want the Welsh team to do
:35:50. > :35:53.well. Like I just said. My whole focus is on the Lions. Going to New
:35:54. > :35:57.Zealand and hopefully winning the Test series. This refers to what
:35:58. > :36:00.Eddie Jones that in the interview earlier on, how he thinks that
:36:01. > :36:05.England's are going to beat New Zealand if they play in a more
:36:06. > :36:09.expansive and entertaining fashion and perhaps we normally associate
:36:10. > :36:13.with them, the pragmatic northern hemisphere approach. We may see one
:36:14. > :36:16.or two games over the first round of the Six Nations that people are not
:36:17. > :36:20.exactly adventurous because there is so much at stake in the early stage
:36:21. > :36:25.of the competition. For the Lions to win in New Zealand this summer, do
:36:26. > :36:28.you have to be expensive, adventurous, dynamic? I think you
:36:29. > :36:33.do. The weather conditions in the Six Nations tends to play a bit of a
:36:34. > :36:37.part in that in terms of the opening rounds. By the end of March, we see
:36:38. > :36:41.better weather conditions. The point of difference that New Zealand have
:36:42. > :36:46.is their type five, they think they have a type five that can all catch,
:36:47. > :36:51.pass, play, play expansively. We need to match them. Look at the
:36:52. > :36:54.potential of the tight five, players who are great ball-carriers,
:36:55. > :36:58.dynamic, athletic. I'm really excited about the squad compared to
:36:59. > :37:00.2013, the amount of choices you've got. When I try to pick squads I'm
:37:01. > :37:07.scratching my head. There are some real quality players
:37:08. > :37:10.and will miss out on the squad. It's a great position to be in but they
:37:11. > :37:15.will be some tough selection. Happy watching over the next few weeks,
:37:16. > :37:19.great to see you, thank you. Warren Gatland the Lions coach. An
:37:20. > :37:22.undercurrent to who will lead won't go on the Lions tour throughout this
:37:23. > :37:25.Six Nations championship. From a coach who is a very seasoned in his
:37:26. > :37:32.experience in the international arena who one who is cutting his
:37:33. > :37:37.teeth at the moment, O'Shea in the -- the new man in charge. This will
:37:38. > :37:50.be his first Six Nations in charge at the helm in Rome.
:37:51. > :37:56.Life is about changing. Freshening yourself up and experiencing things.
:37:57. > :37:59.Personally and professionally over the next couple of years, we can
:38:00. > :38:12.contribute to the start of a renaissance in Italian rugby.
:38:13. > :38:17.That is the first time we've ever beat in a southern hemisphere side.
:38:18. > :38:21.To do it gives the younger generation something to aspire to.
:38:22. > :38:27.It gives some great, great players a memory of a lifetime.
:38:28. > :38:46.Thank you. We are realistic as well. We know, we are in Rome, it wasn't
:38:47. > :38:48.built in a day, we are realistic about the challenge that we have
:38:49. > :38:55.that was pretty special day. We will have some great days, we
:38:56. > :39:00.will have some tough days, but we're going to get better and better. I
:39:01. > :39:03.split this job into short, medium and long-term and short-term, to
:39:04. > :39:07.become competitive, medium-term, be at the next World Cup as a team that
:39:08. > :39:10.no one wants to play and long-term, hopefully change the system
:39:11. > :39:16.structure for the better. It is not easy to change everything in second
:39:17. > :39:19.but Conor and the team and I know that little by little, the team
:39:20. > :39:23.wants to change. The change starts from us, the national team. We know
:39:24. > :39:26.that every time we go out and have a good result, it's a really, really
:39:27. > :39:33.good thing for all of the movement in Italy. Winning is a relevant.
:39:34. > :39:36.Winning will happen -- winning is irrelevant. Our performance is
:39:37. > :39:41.everything. That is what we will focus on. I am looking at the first
:39:42. > :39:45.game thinking that if we go 1-80 and we are still playing, tackling,
:39:46. > :39:49.chasing, still playing ball in hand after 80 minutes, the result will be
:39:50. > :39:53.the result. I will get judged, players deliver that, you win. I
:39:54. > :39:57.think he's a very positive person, he is motivated and excited. Every
:39:58. > :40:02.time we meet together in camp and even in November, it was a good
:40:03. > :40:05.three weeks together. It is important to have the player with a
:40:06. > :40:09.good mentality and positive. We want to focus on doing two or three
:40:10. > :40:12.things brilliantly and not do ten things averagely. When we have done
:40:13. > :40:18.two or three things, we will do four and five and then one we've done
:40:19. > :40:20.that, six and seven. It is an Italian mentality, physical,
:40:21. > :40:25.passionate, don't be afraid to be that and proud to be that. You can
:40:26. > :40:30.control your mind. You can control your mindset. You can control what
:40:31. > :40:33.you're willing to do. I've seen a group of fellows here who need
:40:34. > :40:37.confidence, they need to be supported. It's very difficult. If I
:40:38. > :40:40.keep on saying to you, I've said this only time, your bad at your
:40:41. > :40:45.job, your bad at your job, your bad at your job, I don't know -- don't
:40:46. > :40:48.like what you did at long last week, it will eat you. When you're on the
:40:49. > :40:52.pitch, how can you have confidence? A heroic performance by the whole
:40:53. > :40:56.Italian side. France have squeaked their way to a win. Brendan came
:40:57. > :41:11.over knowing it was a challenge. Catty has come down, knowing it's a
:41:12. > :41:14.challenge. Anybody who can get them kicking at international level, it's
:41:15. > :41:19.about them understanding what to do, how to do it. And get the feel for
:41:20. > :41:25.the game. Unfortunately, it's down to experience as well and they've
:41:26. > :41:27.need experience. We've worked heavily on building a relationship
:41:28. > :41:30.with the players and making them better people. What I've seen over
:41:31. > :41:33.the past six months, they are willing to change and put the hard
:41:34. > :41:36.graft in. Whether you will win trophies or not is another question
:41:37. > :41:41.but it will be a very competitive side, believe me. I played on a team
:41:42. > :41:44.in the 90s that could have been relegated a few times. I keep on
:41:45. > :41:47.coming back to it, we will play by the rules, the wheels will be there
:41:48. > :41:51.for a long time, they will not change in the short-term. -- the
:41:52. > :41:53.rules. This cannot be a country that rugby would go backwards in, it
:41:54. > :41:57.would be the biggest disservice to the game. We need to make sure that
:41:58. > :42:05.Italy becomes a strong rugby nation again at a competitive one. It would
:42:06. > :42:08.be easy me to, the hearsay, I could name 20-24 of the World Cup squad
:42:09. > :42:12.that could go to Japan in 2019 and have a lovely time, focus on that
:42:13. > :42:16.and move on. But there is so much passion and desire to change. We
:42:17. > :42:19.can't do it quickly because we don't have unlimited resources, we need to
:42:20. > :42:24.box clever and make peace after peace. At the structures in place to
:42:25. > :42:28.build to where we want. It's a fascinating challenge -- put in the
:42:29. > :42:31.structures in place. Hopefully you leave something behind, not just
:42:32. > :42:35.some wallpaper and a nice win against South Africa, you want some
:42:36. > :42:39.structure behind it as well and hopefully I can do that as well.
:42:40. > :42:44.STUDIO: What a fascinating interview with Conor O'Shea. Great for TV as
:42:45. > :42:48.well. You know him very well, what do you think about the challenge he
:42:49. > :42:52.is facing and his credibility of confronting it? I think he loves the
:42:53. > :42:56.challenge. He would have watched Quins, long before he went there, as
:42:57. > :43:02.director of rugby. He would have seen all the work going at age grade
:43:03. > :43:05.and academy level, the exact same thing happened in Italy. He watched
:43:06. > :43:10.all the money in Italian rugby that has been pumped into the youth
:43:11. > :43:13.teams, under 20 teams, Academy teams in the years passed. Some of the
:43:14. > :43:17.reasons that Italy are struggling at the moment is that they took their
:43:18. > :43:19.eye off the ball for the professional structures. They are
:43:20. > :43:23.having difficulty with that. He saw where the work was done and he would
:43:24. > :43:30.have seen the players and he would say, I will have a go at this. He
:43:31. > :43:33.was very expansive as a player but unbelievably pragmatic as a leader,
:43:34. > :43:38.director. His managerial admin, organisation, incredibly focused. He
:43:39. > :43:41.is incredibly ambitious. One of the things I would say, there's just no
:43:42. > :43:44.way in the world he would go there without thinking that he could make
:43:45. > :43:49.a success of it. I think it will deliver something good out of it.
:43:50. > :43:52.His hands are very tight. We will see what he can deliver tomorrow
:43:53. > :43:57.when Italy play Wales in Rome and extensive highlights on that on
:43:58. > :44:01.rugby special tomorrow tea-time on BBC Two. What about now?