10/04/2017

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:00:00. > :00:07.Tonight on BBC London News, tributes to PC Keith Palmer.

:00:08. > :00:10.Honoured in his home city, with the largest ever police funeral

:00:11. > :00:33.He was always ready to take his daughter to the park, and enjoy the

:00:34. > :00:39.normal family things you do. He was an incredible dive. Londoners pay

:00:40. > :00:40.tribute to the officer who made the ultimate sacrifice to protect others

:00:41. > :00:42.during the Westminster attack. This is a mark of respect for his family.

:00:43. > :00:46.It's showing the family the whole country is with them. He left home

:00:47. > :00:49.in the morning hoping to return and that is what everybody hopes.

:00:50. > :00:52.We look at whether working fewer hours could boost

:00:53. > :00:59.the capital's productivity, and make you a better employee.

:01:00. > :01:01.And apparently why success can be sweeter when it

:01:02. > :01:18.We speak to London singer songwriter Jack Savoretti.

:01:19. > :01:22.Welcome to the programme with me, Riz Lateef.

:01:23. > :01:25.London paused today to remember and honour a brave officer, father,

:01:26. > :01:28.and life-long Charlton fan who paid the ultimate sacrifice

:01:29. > :01:33.The funeral service at Southwark Cathedral said PC

:01:34. > :01:37.Keith Palmer's "blue lamp" will shine forever,

:01:38. > :01:56.Today, he was remembered as a hero, a policeman who loved his job and

:01:57. > :02:01.who died doing it. But Keith Palmer was also very much a Londoner, a

:02:02. > :02:07.father and football fan who enjoyed his home life here in Wellington,

:02:08. > :02:13.south-east London. He was such a lovely, friendly guy. He enjoyed his

:02:14. > :02:17.family life, his holidays. That's what he was always... As soon as he

:02:18. > :02:22.came back from the holiday, he was planning the next one. Together, the

:02:23. > :02:25.two officers speaking new Keith Palmer for more than 20 years and

:02:26. > :02:33.today they helped to carry his coffin. He was always ready to, you

:02:34. > :02:41.know, take his daughter to the park and enjoy the normal family things

:02:42. > :02:46.that you'd do. He was an incredible guy. He also supported Charlton

:02:47. > :02:52.athletic football club. The stadium empty today but the place where he

:02:53. > :02:57.sat as a season-ticket holder now painted white, and it will stay like

:02:58. > :03:02.that for the rest the season. Outside today, flowers and tributes,

:03:03. > :03:07.and some people visiting to pay their respects. People need to

:03:08. > :03:12.remember that these guys are putting themselves in the danger to keep us

:03:13. > :03:18.safe. We've got to show our respect. Where do you sit? In the same stand

:03:19. > :03:24.but I didn't recall bumping into him. I don't think anybody is going

:03:25. > :03:29.to be sitting in that seat any time. The seat Charis 's warrant number.

:03:30. > :03:33.Along the high street, people who, in their own way remember Keith

:03:34. > :03:38.Palmer. Peter Elliott runs the local cycling shop and he says he used to

:03:39. > :03:42.repair his bike. He was a really friendly, nice chap. I didn't know

:03:43. > :03:47.he was a policeman but until I saw his face on the television and in

:03:48. > :03:52.the news, I didn't realise who the policeman was but as soon as I saw

:03:53. > :03:55.his face, I recognised him. Such a shame, he was such a nice chap.

:03:56. > :04:02.Further down the high street, another memory of a local man. Staff

:04:03. > :04:10.here say he used to enjoy their fish and chip. Always smiling, never

:04:11. > :04:13.rude. A lovely man. The messages that people from all over the

:04:14. > :04:20.country have given in support of Keith and his family, it has been an

:04:21. > :04:27.amazing tribute, I suppose, to Keith, to the way that he was and

:04:28. > :04:30.the way he behaved. Welling has lost a friendly face, Charlton athletic,

:04:31. > :04:40.a passionate fan and London are dedicated policeman.

:04:41. > :04:46.PC Keith Palmer's funeral cortege travelled from the Houses of

:04:47. > :04:51.Parliament to Southwark Cathedral where, later on, we will be speaking

:04:52. > :04:53.to our reporter who is there. Before that...

:04:54. > :04:55.Among the thousands who watched the procession were police officers

:04:56. > :04:59.They were joined by the Mayor, medical staff who helped

:05:00. > :05:00.during the attack, and ordinary Londoners who wanted

:05:01. > :05:03.to pay their respects to "the officer who stood firm."

:05:04. > :05:18.For a time today, parts of London stood still for a man who gave his

:05:19. > :05:23.life protecting Parliament. Those who lined the streets may not have

:05:24. > :05:28.known PC Keith Palmer but they all shared the same sentiment. He was,

:05:29. > :05:32.people told me, a hero who deserved to be honoured and remembered for

:05:33. > :05:37.making the ultimate sacrifice. As you can see, no one is moving at

:05:38. > :05:41.all. They've stopped everything they are doing just two, kind of, pay

:05:42. > :05:48.their respects, really, so it is ready nice to see. This gentleman

:05:49. > :05:51.isn't unknown. This is a mark of respect for his family and showing

:05:52. > :05:56.the family the whole country's with him. And their respect goes out to

:05:57. > :06:02.him. I haven't seen anything like this before. I think it is good

:06:03. > :06:06.there doing something like this for someone who showed courage. Among

:06:07. > :06:10.those who paid their respects, staff from police forces across the

:06:11. > :06:14.country. Jack and Nathan travelled down from North Yorkshire this

:06:15. > :06:18.morning. It's one big family in the police family and you feel it,

:06:19. > :06:26.definitely. Even though we didn't know him personally, it affects us.

:06:27. > :06:30.He'd took the ultimate sacrifice. Everybody is here today to show

:06:31. > :06:35.their appreciation for what police officers and PC Palmer have done.

:06:36. > :06:38.This was a day to say goodbye to a husband, father, colleague and

:06:39. > :06:44.friend but it was also the day when the Z thank you to PC Keith Palmer

:06:45. > :06:50.for the sacrifice he made and made it clear he'd never be forgotten.

:06:51. > :06:54.Today is a very difficult day for PC Keith Palmer's family, his friends,

:06:55. > :06:58.and his colleagues, and all of us will be thinking about him and our

:06:59. > :07:02.thoughts are with his family. I am really proud of our police service

:07:03. > :07:09.and I think Londoners today are showing their gratitude and respect

:07:10. > :07:10.to not just Keith Palmer but two other police officers who put their

:07:11. > :07:14.safety on the line every day. As you've been hearing,

:07:15. > :07:16.PC Palmer's cortege travelled from a chapel at the Houses

:07:17. > :07:18.of Parliament to Southwark Cathedral,

:07:19. > :07:20.where the funeral service was held. Marc Ashdown is there

:07:21. > :07:32.for us tonight. It's been a difficult day at

:07:33. > :07:35.Southwark Cathedral and a difficult balancing act. On the one hand,

:07:36. > :07:39.thousands of Londoners wanted to come out and pay tribute, to say

:07:40. > :07:43.thank you to the man who laid down his life protecting us all. On the

:07:44. > :07:49.other, it was a moment for his family to try privately to say their

:07:50. > :07:53.goodbyes. Things are starting to get back to normal. Joining me as the

:07:54. > :07:58.Bishop of Southwark. Thank you, I know you've just come out of

:07:59. > :08:02.evensong. Thousands of people today, thousands of police officers lining

:08:03. > :08:09.the streets, it was quite something. It was powerful, it was dignified

:08:10. > :08:13.and solemn. There was a sense of the journey towards this Cathedral, the

:08:14. > :08:20.14 days last Wednesday in Westminster Abbey. Today, the family

:08:21. > :08:24.funeral, essentially, an intimate, private affair, which family and

:08:25. > :08:30.friends gathered together many hundreds of colleagues. Give us a

:08:31. > :08:36.sense. We didn't broadcast any of it but give us a sense of the service.

:08:37. > :08:43.There was the Thanksgiving for Keith Palmer's life. There was the sorrow

:08:44. > :08:46.of the family. In a way, words don't always expressed deep human

:08:47. > :08:52.emotions. So the sense of people being alongside the family, that

:08:53. > :08:57.solidarity was important. There were words of hope, resurrection, of life

:08:58. > :09:00.in Jesus Christ, of not abandoning hope and of Thanksgiving for his

:09:01. > :09:05.very courageous deeds. I suppose this is a moment to show unity that

:09:06. > :09:11.we all stand together, we will not bow to those that will do us harm. A

:09:12. > :09:16.very deep chord was struck in the heart of the nation. The fact that

:09:17. > :09:20.he was unarmed and yet he ran towards his attacker. There was also

:09:21. > :09:25.a sense that although the funeral was his today, many others were

:09:26. > :09:30.injured and wounded and against one terrible act there were many acts of

:09:31. > :09:34.kindness and care and compassion. Thank you very much for joining us

:09:35. > :09:39.this evening, thank you for your time. From Southwark Cathedral,

:09:40. > :09:44.where family, friends, colleagues and ordinary Londoners came to say

:09:45. > :09:47.thank you to wade through hero. People across the capital

:09:48. > :09:51.honouring PC Palmer. Meanwhile in Luton there

:09:52. > :09:53.are continuing questions about his attacker, Khalid Masood

:09:54. > :09:56.who spent a number of years living Mike Cartwright is there

:09:57. > :10:03.and can tell us more. Khalid Masood, who murdered five,

:10:04. > :10:08.horrifically injuring many more. Now come newspaper claims

:10:09. > :10:14.he was radicalised in Luton, here. His name, it says, is found stuck

:10:15. > :10:17.to leaflets inside the mosque, A website, the article says,

:10:18. > :10:23.that called Muslims to pick up arms Qadir Baksh, the chairman here,

:10:24. > :10:30.strongly refute the allegations. If you look at the events

:10:31. > :10:35.from the 22nd of March, when the event of Westminster took

:10:36. > :10:37.place two days later, I stood here on the pulpit,

:10:38. > :10:41.giving a sermon condemning that act completely and calling the Muslims

:10:42. > :10:45.to condemn it generally. Why on earth, a week later,

:10:46. > :10:48.you find a leaflet with a sticker Then, also, five years later

:10:49. > :10:55.after he left Luton. His sermon condemning

:10:56. > :10:59.what Khalid Masood did. Khalid Masood never came

:11:00. > :11:17.to this mosque, he told us. But others claim this

:11:18. > :11:19.is where he worshipped The problem is that the very creed

:11:20. > :11:28.of what the people at the helm of the mosque believe in is extreme,

:11:29. > :11:30.is fundamental and will drive Living in Luton for three years,

:11:31. > :11:36.Khalid Masood taught English A director of the school

:11:37. > :11:41.was Qadir Baksh. But it and the mosque

:11:42. > :11:44.were separate, he told us. There is no link between the school

:11:45. > :11:49.and this mosque, except that myself and Mr Latif were actually directors

:11:50. > :11:53.of the school. It was an English-language school

:11:54. > :12:02.and we had Muslims teaching there, It was completely separate,

:12:03. > :12:09.had nothing to do with this mosque. Khalid Masood didn't

:12:10. > :12:14.come here, they told us. Its form of Islam is conservative,

:12:15. > :12:33.they say, but not extreme. Later I'll be on BBC London talking

:12:34. > :12:38.about the Miami Dolphins coming back to London. April is back after our

:12:39. > :12:42.one day of June. In the forecast, I'll tell you if were going to have

:12:43. > :12:46.any more soaring temperatures heading up to the Easter weekend.

:12:47. > :12:50.Neighbours of a care home in Hertfordshire which went up

:12:51. > :12:53.in flames at the weekend, have spoken about the bravery

:12:54. > :12:55.of fire-fighters who rescued more than 30 elderly residents

:12:56. > :13:16.It was a fierce fire which spread rapidly. A neighbour managed to

:13:17. > :13:21.capture the blaze at its peak. Over 60 firefighters fought for a day to

:13:22. > :13:27.put it out. When they arrived, they were also faced with the challenge

:13:28. > :13:32.of rescuing more than 30 elderly people who, because of disability or

:13:33. > :13:37.age, were trapped inside the burning building. Today, firefighters were

:13:38. > :13:41.praised for their work that night. Neighbours called them heroes. The

:13:42. > :13:48.firefighters themselves safe they were just doing their job.

:13:49. > :13:51.Firefighters took a systematic search of the building, sometimes

:13:52. > :13:56.physically lifting and carrying the residents from the building or

:13:57. > :14:01.getting them to walk assisted down a ladder pitched against the outside

:14:02. > :14:05.of the building. That is a challenge given the roof was ablaze. The crews

:14:06. > :14:11.worked extremely hard and difficult circumstances to carry out this

:14:12. > :14:15.rescue. This fire broke out in the early hours of Saturday morning. And

:14:16. > :14:19.as neighbours awoke, they brought out clothes and blankets to help

:14:20. > :14:25.those who were rescued from this building. This fire has caused real

:14:26. > :14:31.sadness and shock in this community. Half a mile down the road, John

:14:32. > :14:35.Wheeler and his boss have been trying to help the survivors.

:14:36. > :14:39.They've raised more than ?2000 through crowdfunding and collected

:14:40. > :14:45.bags of clothes, wheelchairs and other supplies. We have had an awful

:14:46. > :14:50.lot been donated to ourselves on Saturday we took over 100 bags in.

:14:51. > :14:54.As you can see, today we are still loading the van, still taking bits

:14:55. > :14:58.around for them which is just fantastic because they had nothing

:14:59. > :15:01.at the end of it and at least the local people and people in

:15:02. > :15:05.surrounding areas have really come together to help these people out.

:15:06. > :15:10.Now there is the challenge of finding permanent homes for the

:15:11. > :15:15.residents. The care home had been given a good rating in a recent Care

:15:16. > :15:21.Quality Comission inspection. An investigation into the cause of the

:15:22. > :15:22.fire is still under way. To and explain why two vulnerable people

:15:23. > :15:26.lost their lives. When it comes to work-life balance,

:15:27. > :15:29.working fewer hours is an unaffordable dream for many

:15:30. > :15:33.Londoners. But in other European capitals,

:15:34. > :15:37.it has increased productivity Sarah Harris reports on one group

:15:38. > :15:41.campaigning to make a shorter London is still, by and large,

:15:42. > :15:48.a 9-5 city with most commuters travelling to their 40 hour a week

:15:49. > :15:51.jobs at roughly the same Duncan changed all

:15:52. > :15:57.that many years ago. He volunteered at the Grasshopper's

:15:58. > :16:02.Nursery in Hackney, which qualifies his boys

:16:03. > :16:04.for reduced childcare costs. This was the only way to make it

:16:05. > :16:07.work financially but he says I think there's a big psychological

:16:08. > :16:13.barrier to people's going flexible, part-time here in London and I know

:16:14. > :16:16.a lot of my friends who work full-time and couldn't

:16:17. > :16:22.conceive of going part-time, and I made that transition

:16:23. > :16:24.about five years ago, But, ultimately, I think having

:16:25. > :16:32.a bit less but having more time for the kids and children

:16:33. > :16:35.is actually much, In Iceland's capital,

:16:36. > :16:40.a new timetable is being established to make flexible working financially

:16:41. > :16:46.viable for people with It's a system which some economists

:16:47. > :16:51.are championing here. They've started giving their public

:16:52. > :16:54.sector employees a 35 hour week And they are seeing increases

:16:55. > :16:59.in productivity and reduced stress levels and people staying

:17:00. > :17:01.on in the workforce for longer. Then you've got countries

:17:02. > :17:03.like the Netherlands, Belgium where, actually,

:17:04. > :17:05.shorter working hours are just the norm, where working 20-30 hours

:17:06. > :17:09.a week is much more standard Liana is one of a group of Londoners

:17:10. > :17:16.campaigning for a law change to make As things stand now,

:17:17. > :17:21.employers can say no She says productivity

:17:22. > :17:25.would increase as workers, I think London is a city

:17:26. > :17:31.that is full of really talented people, people who are passionate

:17:32. > :17:39.about and interest, be that the novel they're writing,

:17:40. > :17:41.or the sports they love or the volunteering they do,

:17:42. > :17:44.and a five-day week really limits the amount you can give and develop

:17:45. > :17:50.those passions and talents. Building a new routine around

:17:51. > :17:53.shorter hours is a risk especially in places like London with such

:17:54. > :17:56.high living costs. But the message from cities

:17:57. > :18:03.where thousands of workers have cut their hours is that quality of

:18:04. > :18:11.life and productivity both improve. This year will be the tenth in a row

:18:12. > :18:16.that American Football teams will be crossing the Atlantic to play games

:18:17. > :18:18.here in London. And the sport will soon have another

:18:19. > :18:21.home in the capital, with Tottenham committed to hosting

:18:22. > :18:24.NFL games at their new ground. As Emma Jones reports,

:18:25. > :18:30.today a Miami Dolphins star got the chance to swap tips with one

:18:31. > :18:41.of his counterparts at Spurs. The Premier League meets the NFL.

:18:42. > :18:47.Miami Dolphins wide receiver Jarvis Landry might be preparing to play a

:18:48. > :18:50.very different game at Wembley to top the midfielder Victor Wanyama

:18:51. > :18:55.but that won't stop them from swapping tips and shirts. Abraham

:18:56. > :19:02.accesses got great memories from his first times here in 2015. Seeing the

:19:03. > :19:07.fans and just the turnout, it was unexpected, thinking American

:19:08. > :19:15.football... When soccer is the leading sport here so the turnout

:19:16. > :19:19.was great. The razzmatazz of the NFL has been coming to the capital every

:19:20. > :19:24.year since 2007 and it continues to grow. This year, there will be four

:19:25. > :19:29.regular-season games in London, two at Wembley and two at Twickenham and

:19:30. > :19:35.the Tottenham connection is that the club has committed to hosting two

:19:36. > :19:41.games a year for ten years once it finishes building its multisports

:19:42. > :19:46.stadium. Meanwhile, there continues talk about London having its own

:19:47. > :19:51.franchise. I don't know how practical it would be. But I don't

:19:52. > :19:56.think you are opposed to it. I think it is a beta for place and the fan

:19:57. > :20:02.base would be amazing. And it gives the NFL the opportunity to have a

:20:03. > :20:09.real boost. With an estimated fan base of 13 million in the UK, the

:20:10. > :20:15.games have proved profitable and popular and have inspired home-grown

:20:16. > :20:22.talent. When there are big games and big PR, kids want to try it out,

:20:23. > :20:25.this sport. I would like to increase the popularity of the game, it

:20:26. > :20:30.benefits us who are playing here because we are trying to get more

:20:31. > :20:35.exposure. I had to get my tickets two weeks after I heard they were

:20:36. > :20:38.playing here. I went to the Twickenham game this year and I went

:20:39. > :20:43.to Wembley last year and the atmosphere is crazy. With the

:20:44. > :20:46.possibility of more games in 2018, American football seems to be

:20:47. > :20:50.happily growing as a transatlantic sport.

:20:51. > :20:52.He's the London singer songwriter, who says he's now

:20:53. > :20:54.enjoying his success, after more than a decade trying

:20:55. > :20:59.Jack Savoretti's last album went gold, and his latest

:21:00. > :21:04.Alice Bhandhukravi went to meet him on set, as he filmed the video

:21:05. > :21:18.It was his last album, Written In Stars, which really

:21:19. > :21:21.helped Jack Savoretti break through, turning him from jobbing

:21:22. > :21:23.singer to selling out at the Hammersmith Apollo

:21:24. > :21:28.If somebody had told me four years ago you're

:21:29. > :21:30.going to play those venues, both of those venues

:21:31. > :21:33.in the space of four months, I wouldn't have believed it.

:21:34. > :21:36.So, that was the real touching point.

:21:37. > :21:39.It was at a home gig, which always makes it a little bit

:21:40. > :21:44.And the years of writing and performing before he really hit

:21:45. > :21:48.Recognition from the music industry and his huge fan base have

:21:49. > :21:50.influenced his latest album, Sleep No More.

:21:51. > :21:53.It was amazing to hit the road knowing we have an audience,

:21:54. > :21:56.whereas in the past we used to make records and never knew if anybody

:21:57. > :22:00.But after the last album, we saw our public change in size.

:22:01. > :22:05.So, when we went into the studio to make Sleep No More,

:22:06. > :22:07.it was amazing to see everybody's attitude change when they realised

:22:08. > :22:10.they were going to be making an album that people were actually

:22:11. > :22:14.People really showed up at the studio thinking, OK,

:22:15. > :22:24.We Are Bound was written after two years touring with his band

:22:25. > :22:26.and as much as Jack Savoretti is a solo performer,

:22:27. > :22:32.You talk about "we", people might think that

:22:33. > :22:34.actually it's Savoretti, you're the guy, you're

:22:35. > :22:39.There's a lot of people, the reason I'm standing

:22:40. > :22:49.Every career is a collaboration, whatever the person may think.

:22:50. > :22:53.There's a lot of people behind it, from the music side

:22:54. > :22:57.So, those are two different aspects of it but there's a big group

:22:58. > :23:00.of people involved with why we now have a big audience.

:23:01. > :23:12.London is great, even if you're not from London,

:23:13. > :23:17.There are some cities in the world that if you can play a few

:23:18. > :23:19.venues in those cities, you know something is happening.

:23:20. > :23:22.To see that makes you kind of go, OK, this is working,

:23:23. > :23:28.let's stick with this, let's keep making music.

:23:29. > :23:35.Let's get a check on the weather now with Wendy Hurrell.

:23:36. > :23:42.No pressure, but it was gorgeous, wasn't it?

:23:43. > :23:48.So gorgeous I'm going to backtrack a little bit. This Rosehill in the

:23:49. > :23:54.summer. Not in the middle of April. It had that hazy quality first thing

:23:55. > :23:58.in the morning. This is Hoxton. If you were looking at this morning

:23:59. > :24:04.through a window pane, you might have been tricked into thinking we

:24:05. > :24:08.had the same again but no, we had temperatures yesterday reaching 25

:24:09. > :24:13.degrees and today we got no higher than 14. Let's not forget this is

:24:14. > :24:19.exceptional, this is completely normal. It might not be much like

:24:20. > :24:24.June this week but it will be dry and some sunny spells to enjoy as

:24:25. > :24:26.well. Out there at the moment, we've got some sunny spells and as we go

:24:27. > :24:29.into the evening and overnight, into the evening and overnight,

:24:30. > :24:36.temperatures will fall back quickly. There will be a chill in the air,

:24:37. > :24:40.light winds, and gardeners can't rule out a touch of frost.

:24:41. > :24:44.Temperatures will be down for a short time to three or 4 degrees so

:24:45. > :24:48.I chilly start of the day tomorrow with sunny spells from the word go

:24:49. > :24:52.and they will come and go as we go through the day. Once again,

:24:53. > :24:59.north-westerly winds. It had an edge to it today but it does take the

:25:00. > :25:05.edge of the temperatures. 13-14 is average and London could get to 16

:25:06. > :25:09.or 17 tomorrow so feeling pleasant enough in those afternoon sunny

:25:10. > :25:14.spells. On Wednesday, there's a weather front across as. There won't

:25:15. > :25:19.be too much rain on it at all. That's not what you'll want to hear,

:25:20. > :25:30.gardeners. It will be breezy on Wednesday but, again, temperatures

:25:31. > :25:35.up to 16 in London, the edge of that knocked off elsewhere. Thursday,

:25:36. > :25:40.some sunny spells once again, in amongst the little bits of cloud

:25:41. > :25:44.from time to time. Figure cloud on Friday because there is a weather

:25:45. > :25:49.front approaching and temperatures around 15. Still westerly winds.

:25:50. > :25:54.Saturday starts with some outbreaks of light rain at kids are way too

:25:55. > :25:59.bright or sunny spells through the afternoon and it will be a breezy

:26:00. > :26:03.day. For the Easter weekend, it will be mostly dry. There will be a lot

:26:04. > :26:08.of sunny spells coming and going although it will be rather cool, so

:26:09. > :26:12.it won't look like this but then it isn't supposed to look like that in

:26:13. > :26:14.April. Yes, we have been spoiled. Thank

:26:15. > :26:15.you. Foreign ministers from the G7 group

:26:16. > :26:18.of industrialised nations are discussing the next steps

:26:19. > :26:21.in Syria after an apparent chemical The funeral of PC Keith Palmer,

:26:22. > :26:25.who was killed in last month's Westminster attack,

:26:26. > :26:27.has been held at London's That's it for now,

:26:28. > :26:38.thanks for joining us. We'll leave you this evening

:26:39. > :26:40.with images of how the capital honoured PC Keith Palmer,

:26:41. > :26:42.the officer who was killed during the Westminster attack,

:26:43. > :27:08.whose funeral took place today. We have had the public expressions

:27:09. > :27:12.of thanks and honouring and now the family will do what only a family

:27:13. > :27:14.can do which is to say their final farewell to Keith, and we will leave

:27:15. > :27:19.them to do that in privacy.