26/09/2014

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:00:08. > :00:09.This is BBC World News Today. I'm Tim Willcox.

:00:10. > :00:11.Tonight - the British parliament overwhelmingly approves air strikes

:00:12. > :00:35.524 four yes, the noses, 43. The eyes have it. Faced unchecked, we

:00:36. > :00:40.will have a caliphate on the shores of the Mediterranean, with a proven

:00:41. > :00:41.determination to attack our country and our people.

:00:42. > :00:43.Meanwhile the US-led coalition continues to

:00:44. > :00:52.He was last seen in public three weeks ago - now North Korea has

:00:53. > :00:58.Former British Prime Minister, Middle East envoy and now -

:00:59. > :01:18.The emergency debate in the Commons was passionate and lasted six

:01:19. > :01:24.But this evening, after a huge majority of MPs voted in favour,

:01:25. > :01:28.RAF fighter jets are poised to join the US-led coalition in striking

:01:29. > :01:38.They could attack as early as tonight.

:01:39. > :01:41.It will be the first time British bombs have been dropped in Iraq

:01:42. > :01:44.Britain will become the latest to join the US lead

:01:45. > :01:46.coalition against Islamic State militants - but only in Iraq.

:01:47. > :01:49.Parliament will require another vote if they decide to strike in Syria.

:01:50. > :01:53.The Danish government announced it was sending seven F-16 fighter

:01:54. > :01:58.But, like Britain, they have also only committed to

:01:59. > :02:04.France carried out its first attack on Iraq a week ago,

:02:05. > :02:08.targeting IS positions near Mosul, while several other countries,

:02:09. > :02:11.like Australia, the Netherlands and Belgium, are also giving

:02:12. > :02:17.Meanwhile in Syria, the US-led coalition, supported

:02:18. > :02:20.by Arab states, continues to bombard IS targets, with Saudi Arabia

:02:21. > :02:28.and the Emirates each sending four F-16s into Syria earlier this week.

:02:29. > :02:36.The latest US air strike in eastern Syria.

:02:37. > :02:38.The target - a series of small oil refineries.

:02:39. > :02:43.The goal - to choke off a vital source of funding for Islamic State.

:02:44. > :02:53.Denmark announced its offer to give seven jets to join

:02:54. > :03:00.Last evening, we received a formal request from

:03:01. > :03:03.the United States for Danish fighter jets to take part in the fight

:03:04. > :03:11.The government is of the view that it should meet that demand.

:03:12. > :03:14.The government is therefore prepared to quickly send seven jets to

:03:15. > :03:20.The Danish fighter jets will be active in the airspace over Iraq,

:03:21. > :03:27.This shows the steady increase in countries lining up

:03:28. > :03:34.In recent days, Belgium and the Netherlands have

:03:35. > :03:43.A vote in the British Parliament has now given the green light for six

:03:44. > :03:46.This is not a threat on the far side of the world.

:03:47. > :03:49.Left unchecked, we will face a terrorist caliphate

:03:50. > :03:54.on the shores of the Mediterranean and bordering a NATO member, with a

:03:55. > :03:58.declared and proven determination to attack our country and our people.

:03:59. > :04:02.This is not the stuff of fantasy, it is happening in front of us

:04:03. > :04:09.These national contributions are small, but nonetheless significant,

:04:10. > :04:17.The key success of the US-led coalition is to have many Arab

:04:18. > :04:20.states as active participants, but Western military contributions

:04:21. > :04:23.are also vital, with France and Australia already on board.

:04:24. > :04:29.So far, despite much misleading commentary in the press, this is a

:04:30. > :04:35.The numbers of aircraft involved is not huge.

:04:36. > :04:40.But the problem for the coalition is to sustain this activity over time.

:04:41. > :04:43.This campaign against Islamic State could potentially go on for years.

:04:44. > :04:46.Each country's contribution, leaving aside the Americans,

:04:47. > :04:50.may be small, but together, they make up a force that could continue

:04:51. > :05:05.Our political correspondent Rob Watson is live outside Westminster.

:05:06. > :05:12.A huge majority in favour of the strikes in Iraq, but a different

:05:13. > :05:18.matter if the matter was put forward about Syria. Absolutely, and the

:05:19. > :05:26.Prime Minister went out of his way to be quite starkly open to say, if

:05:27. > :05:29.it was up to me, I wouldn't rule out using UK aeroplanes over Syria, but

:05:30. > :05:36.he said what was important now was a political consensus. A year ago he,

:05:37. > :05:39.he suffered a defeat over UK action in Syria, and he won't let that

:05:40. > :05:47.happen again, so he has gone for safety first. Passionate voices from

:05:48. > :05:50.some about why America, France and Britain shouldn't get involved in a

:05:51. > :05:56.rocket again. How much discussion was there about the exit strategy

:05:57. > :06:00.here and mission creep? There was discussion about all of these

:06:01. > :06:09.things. If you take this spectrum about this, on one hand, there were

:06:10. > :06:14.plenty of MPs saying, oh my goodness, here we go again. On the

:06:15. > :06:19.other end of the spectrum, people who support the use of air strikes

:06:20. > :06:22.in Iraq, but still say, look, we need something more comprehensive,

:06:23. > :06:27.something better thought out, there will have to be political

:06:28. > :06:31.improvement in both Iraq and Syria, otherwise air strikes on their own

:06:32. > :06:37.simply won't work. On that point, boots on the ground, everyone talked

:06:38. > :06:42.about that. They want to local forces to take on IS, but that will

:06:43. > :06:48.take months if not years to get them equipped with the right military

:06:49. > :06:54.hardware to take them on, wanted? Yes, two points there. The

:06:55. > :06:59.reluctance of Britain to put boots on the ground is not just because of

:07:00. > :07:03.political difficulties, they just generally think it would not be a

:07:04. > :07:07.good idea, one of the lessons from 2003. That we do want to the problem

:07:08. > :07:13.of, you will fill any vacuum left in a rack and in Syria if it Islamic

:07:14. > :07:19.State are dislodged? Even in a rack, that looks like a hard sell. It has

:07:20. > :07:23.been difficult to get the Iraqi forces to stand up, but in Syria, it

:07:24. > :07:25.looks like an even harder sell with no prospect insight of some kind of

:07:26. > :07:38.logical settlement there. Thank you. Well,

:07:39. > :07:40.on the ground in Iraq and in Syria, thousands of refugees continue to

:07:41. > :07:43.flee Islamic State forces. Many have described the beheading

:07:44. > :07:45.of captives, the torching of homes and the widespread use

:07:46. > :07:47.of rape by IS fighters. In the Iraqi capital,

:07:48. > :07:50.Shia leaders are recruiting local people to fight back, and say they

:07:51. > :07:53.don't need help from the West. The Iraqi government, though,

:07:54. > :07:54.insists that outside Our chief international

:07:55. > :08:03.correspondent Lyse Doucet sent this Britain is joining

:08:04. > :08:06.an air campaign that has already gone on for six weeks.

:08:07. > :08:09.It hasn't gone on for six weeks.

:08:10. > :08:13.on the streets of Baghdad. It hasn't stopped the funerals.

:08:14. > :08:16.This family mourns for a family member.

:08:17. > :08:21.He died in a battle against Islamic State fighters just south

:08:22. > :08:27.of the capital. Every death breeds defiance.

:08:28. > :08:32.Now all these women tell me they are ready to fight.

:08:33. > :08:36.So are these men. We get rare access to it

:08:37. > :08:39.powerful militia brigade. It fight in Iraq and Syria.

:08:40. > :08:44.This is how their leader has to travel.

:08:45. > :08:47.He is now recruiting more fighters, Shi'ite and Sunni, to take

:08:48. > :08:52.on this new threat and says Iraq doesn't need help from the West.

:08:53. > :09:08.America has proven it always comes to us with the face of the saviour.

:09:09. > :09:10.It hides in front of the people the ugly face of an invader.

:09:11. > :09:12.And what about Britain? We see that the British are

:09:13. > :09:21.the obedient slaves for America. In Iraq, the militias operated

:09:22. > :09:27.separately from the national army and police. That means a lot of

:09:28. > :09:31.checkpoints across Baghdad, but is still not stopping the violence.

:09:32. > :09:36.These Iraqis know that between 15 or 20 mortars landed in this area in

:09:37. > :09:40.the last week, a massive car bomb exploded at a checkpoint just behind

:09:41. > :09:49.us. They have lived with danger for many years, and now this threat

:09:50. > :09:57.posed by anti-Shiite group calling itself Islamic State makes their

:09:58. > :10:01.faith even stronger. But in their fervor is no match

:10:02. > :10:09.militarily for this new enemy. That is why the Government has asked the

:10:10. > :10:14.world to help, including Britain. We do need the United Kingdom here

:10:15. > :10:20.because the United Kingdom has a long history and a rack, they

:10:21. > :10:32.understand a very well, and they understand the region very well.

:10:33. > :10:33.They have the expertise. -- Iraq. This war will be won or lost, not in

:10:34. > :10:48.the air, but on the ground. Let's go to Irbil in Northern Iraq

:10:49. > :11:00.and speak to Clive Myrie. How has the British vote there been

:11:01. > :11:05.greeted today, and is there an understanding that air power alone

:11:06. > :11:10.won't be enough? Yes, to the first point of your

:11:11. > :11:15.question, it was greeted with relief, it has to be said, and the

:11:16. > :11:19.delight. There is no doubt that certainly as far as the Kurdish

:11:20. > :11:24.person murder forces are concerned, who have been fighting and taking on

:11:25. > :11:30.the forces of the Islamic State for the last few weeks and months, air

:11:31. > :11:35.power has helped them overrun the Kurdish area here in northern Iraq

:11:36. > :11:42.and take the capital of the independent region here in the

:11:43. > :11:46.country. They are very grateful, frankly, the regional Government

:11:47. > :11:52.here that there is another important Western power that will be taking

:11:53. > :12:01.parts in targeting Islamic State positions in Iraq. At the same time,

:12:02. > :12:05.the Peshmerga, the military here, and know that it is a battle that

:12:06. > :12:09.will only really be won on the ground militarily, it is not just

:12:10. > :12:13.going to be the result of air power alone, and as a result, they

:12:14. > :12:16.continue to make that call to Western nations to arm them with

:12:17. > :12:22.more sophisticated heavy weaponry so they can have an equal fight on the

:12:23. > :12:26.ground with the force of some 20,000, 30,000 fighters who were

:12:27. > :12:31.funded to the tune of millions of dollars a day to criminal

:12:32. > :12:38.activities, that gives them access to heavy weaponry and machinery that

:12:39. > :12:43.could make this a more equal fight. Presumably, there is no purely

:12:44. > :12:47.military solution here, there needs to be a political solution, bearing

:12:48. > :12:53.in mind what happened before in 2008, 2009 when America convinced

:12:54. > :12:56.the local people to rise up against Al-Qaeda. Is there any indication

:12:57. > :13:03.that those overtures are being met with any success? It is early days.

:13:04. > :13:10.It is very early days. What you have to be able to provide for those of

:13:11. > :13:14.Sunni tribes in the different provinces, the central belt of Iraq,

:13:15. > :13:17.which is predominantly Sunni and has been taken over by Islamic State,

:13:18. > :13:20.where they found a for title audience for their creed, because

:13:21. > :13:28.those Sunnis felt disenfranchised in this country after the invasion in

:13:29. > :13:31.2003, they have to be given an alternative to turn their backs on

:13:32. > :13:38.Islamic State in the same way they turned their backs on Al-Qaeda in

:13:39. > :13:45.2007 and 2008. That will stem from a much more inclusive Government in

:13:46. > :13:51.Iraq. The Prime Minister Alla body -- the Prime Minister here says he

:13:52. > :13:56.will give greater representation for the Government, and they could be

:13:57. > :14:02.part of the future for the country. Once that is established, the list

:14:03. > :14:05.can be pushed out to the Sunni community, after saying they have a

:14:06. > :14:11.future in the country and therefore should turn their backs on the

:14:12. > :14:19.extremist that came through Syria from the North.

:14:20. > :14:31.Jonathan Russell, of the Quilliam Foundation, is with me now. Thank

:14:32. > :14:35.you for joining us. Just looking at the vote in the Commons today, is it

:14:36. > :14:40.pretty clear that this is the first of several stages, and that mission

:14:41. > :14:43.creep really is inevitable average well, mission creep seems to be

:14:44. > :14:48.designed into the Government's strategy. It is pretty obvious that

:14:49. > :14:51.from the statements both made by the Prime Minister and by the many MPs

:14:52. > :14:56.who were supporting him that the question about the border between

:14:57. > :15:02.Iraq and Syria, which is virtually nonexistent, controlled by ISIS, is

:15:03. > :15:05.an artificial border. And so, I think that also we have heard from

:15:06. > :15:09.various MPs that the legal impediments are there, there are

:15:10. > :15:13.sufficient legal covers which would allow us. So I think the Prime

:15:14. > :15:19.Minister almost revealed the fact that he has only come to the House

:15:20. > :15:24.because all he felt confident of getting was support for Iraq at this

:15:25. > :15:28.stage, but that in due course, the possibility of strikes over Syrian

:15:29. > :15:31.territory would be considered. And again, this debate about boots on

:15:32. > :15:36.the ground will probably start raging now. It may result in a

:15:37. > :15:41.request for some limited ground Force assistance as well. Presumably

:15:42. > :15:48.there are special forces already on the ground anyway? Well, yes. Of

:15:49. > :15:53.course, the British devilment, as a matter of policy, does not comment

:15:54. > :15:56.on special operations, so we could assume that that may well have

:15:57. > :16:03.happened, and certainly could happen in the future. In terms of the force

:16:04. > :16:12.and potency of Islamic State, which is not a regular army, what are the

:16:13. > :16:19.dangers of radicalising them yet further? I think we have got to be

:16:20. > :16:24.aware of that danger, when we do engage in military. There are

:16:25. > :16:29.various things that can prevent that. Having Arab states in this

:16:30. > :16:32.international military coalition is one important way of doing that.

:16:33. > :16:38.Should there be boots on the ground, it is important that they are Sunni

:16:39. > :16:44.Muslim troops initially as well. But also, we should remember that the UN

:16:45. > :16:46.has a role. Very underreported was a resolution from the Security Council

:16:47. > :16:51.yesterday in flooring all of its member states, and passed

:16:52. > :16:53.unanimously, I might add, to redouble their efforts to prevent

:16:54. > :17:01.foreign fighters joining Islamic State. But individual countries have

:17:02. > :17:07.done that, haven't they? I think we have got a grass now showing the

:17:08. > :17:17.countries who have been providing fighters for Islamic State. Dr

:17:18. > :17:33.Ashraf, first of all, the largest contributor is Tunisia. Now, is that

:17:34. > :17:36.a surprise? Yes, this is something which the King's College centre has

:17:37. > :17:42.done, and it has been out on the streets, this information, for a few

:17:43. > :17:44.days. It is believed to be because of a combination of factors,

:17:45. > :17:50.political unrest, also economic depression. There is not a great

:17:51. > :17:54.deal but a lot of these young people can do, apart from join

:17:55. > :18:00.organisations such as this. The rest of the other countries seem to map

:18:01. > :18:04.areas where there is a combination of economic downturn as well as

:18:05. > :18:10.political instability. What binds fighters from all of these 70

:18:11. > :18:15.countries is the adherence to an ideology, and a belief in the

:18:16. > :18:18.narrative of Islamic State, and other similar organisations. So it

:18:19. > :18:23.is surely only by tackling this ideology at its root that we can

:18:24. > :18:28.have any effect of stemming the flow of fighters to the Islamic State.

:18:29. > :18:34.Just tell us a bit more about the philosophy of Islamic State, we are

:18:35. > :18:43.all aware of the brutality, but this idea of trying to create a society,

:18:44. > :18:49.people like plumbers and teachers and suchlike? The idea comes from

:18:50. > :18:56.the idea of political Islam, which started about 100 years ago. This

:18:57. > :18:59.particular branch is a subset, a violent Islamist strand, which was

:19:00. > :19:04.personified through Al-Qaeda's ideology. Ultimately, there is no

:19:05. > :19:10.ideological or theological difference between Al-Qaeda and ISIS

:19:11. > :19:13.it is a political and strategic difference, humming down to the fact

:19:14. > :19:20.that these people are primarily political. The religious overtones

:19:21. > :19:24.are just there for identity purposes, but the reason they kill

:19:25. > :19:29.each other, Al-Qaeda and ISIS have been killing each other, and the

:19:30. > :19:31.reason is purely political, because they have not a single difference

:19:32. > :19:37.theological or ideological. These are political movements, they have a

:19:38. > :19:40.lot more in common with the fascist and communist movements of the

:19:41. > :19:44.beginning of the last century than they do with old religious

:19:45. > :19:50.movements. Finally, are we looking at Gulf War three? It certainly

:19:51. > :19:55.looks like it, but we can learn the lessons of the first and second Gulf

:19:56. > :20:01.War. Can we? Yes, I think we can. I think the key difference is having

:20:02. > :20:04.Sunni Muslim countries in this coalition, and by thinking about the

:20:05. > :20:12.long-term problems of Islamic State as an idea, rather than as an

:20:13. > :20:15.organisation. So, more needs to be done to persuade Qatar and Saudi

:20:16. > :20:19.Arabia to stop the funding as well? That is one point which came out of

:20:20. > :20:23.the debate. Whether it is true that those countries are funding is

:20:24. > :20:27.irrelevant. What is true is that people believe that they have been

:20:28. > :20:31.supporting extremists. That point was made very powerfully today in

:20:32. > :20:38.the Commons, and they will have to respond to it.

:20:39. > :20:44.Now, where is the supremely dumb? That is the question on the Korean

:20:45. > :20:50.peninsula, after the disappearance of North Korea's leader, Kim

:20:51. > :20:56.Jong-un. He has been missing for a few weeks. It has prompted a flurry

:20:57. > :21:03.of speculation in South Korea about his health. Now, the north has

:21:04. > :21:10.admitted he is suffering from an uncomfortable physical condition.

:21:11. > :21:15.This report from Sol town. It is the empty chair which is significant.

:21:16. > :21:21.This is the supreme meeting of the rulers of North Korea minus the

:21:22. > :21:26.supreme ruler of them all. It is the first time since Kim Jong-un

:21:27. > :21:30.inherited power from his father three years ago that he has not been

:21:31. > :21:35.present. The North Korean authorities said he was feeling

:21:36. > :21:39.discomfort. How serious an admission of ill-health that is remains

:21:40. > :21:45.unclear. It is more than three weeks since he last appeared in public,

:21:46. > :21:48.with a limp. Kim Jong-un has been a thorn in the side of the West, as

:21:49. > :21:54.North Korea develops nuclear weapons, and the missiles to deliver

:21:55. > :22:00.them. He rules an isolated country squeezed by sanctions. In a way, he

:22:01. > :22:07.dominates the life of the people here in South Korea, issuing

:22:08. > :22:11.bloodcurdling threats. He is developing nuclear weapons, aimed at

:22:12. > :22:16.this country and that the United States, so this place buzzes with

:22:17. > :22:20.speculation. Having said all that, not too much should be made of that

:22:21. > :22:25.speculation. After all, he vanished from public view for two weeks last

:22:26. > :22:29.year. Kim Jong-un is not a man who shuns publicity. He usually travels

:22:30. > :22:35.the land he rules with cameras nearby. Here's a to be feared. Last

:22:36. > :22:46.year, his uncle and political mentor was executed. The official statement

:22:47. > :22:51.from North Korea about his illness says he continues as leader. But it

:22:52. > :22:53.must raise questions about the seriousness of the illness and his

:22:54. > :23:07.ability to continue. One of Britain's leading

:23:08. > :23:12.publications for the gay community is publishing a list of the top gay

:23:13. > :23:17.icons over the past three decades. Some probably do not surprise you,

:23:18. > :23:21.the likes of Boy George and Barbra Streisand. But one man on the list

:23:22. > :23:32.might - Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister. The obvious question is

:23:33. > :23:37.why? Let's have a look at Tony Blair's reaction to the accolade. It

:23:38. > :23:44.is something I am very proud of, he said. I consider it a significant

:23:45. > :23:49.part of my legacy. I disliked the hypocrisy where people had to

:23:50. > :23:54.conceal their own identity. We can discuss this now with somebody from

:23:55. > :23:59.the Daytimes. I think you said today that you do not need to be gay to be

:24:00. > :24:03.a gay icon. What has he done for the gay community? When you look back,

:24:04. > :24:08.you have got things like the equal age of consent, the repeal of

:24:09. > :24:13.section 28, being able to be openly gay in the Army, protection in the

:24:14. > :24:16.workplace, and his biggest introduction, civil partnerships, it

:24:17. > :24:21.was introduced ten years ago in October. That is what his interview

:24:22. > :24:27.was really to mark. Is this the choice of the publication, or

:24:28. > :24:31.according to a poll? We sat down and we looked at the past 30 years of

:24:32. > :24:35.issues we had done, and we had Tony Blair on the cover in 1997, and

:24:36. > :24:39.there were lots of questions about whether he would do what he had

:24:40. > :24:45.promised in that manifesto, and he did. We thought, he gets such flak

:24:46. > :24:48.for all sorts of things, but on this issue, I think we should recognise

:24:49. > :25:02.how much was done. Did he change the political weather, as far as the

:25:03. > :25:06.British establishment is concerned? Absolutely. When I interviewed Tony

:25:07. > :25:09.Blair a week last Monday about this, he said that he thought the most

:25:10. > :25:14.important thing about his political legacy in this respect was the

:25:15. > :25:19.Conservative Party, and how they have now come on board. He remembers

:25:20. > :25:22.in the latter half of his premiership, they were voting for

:25:23. > :25:28.gay equality, whereas previously that had been unimaginable. I think

:25:29. > :25:33.he is link. I spoke to David Cameron a few months ago, when same-sex

:25:34. > :25:37.marriage came in, and he said Tony Blair should take a lot of credit

:25:38. > :25:43.for changing public opinion. It seems strange to think back 20, 30

:25:44. > :25:47.is, where it was a story if a politician was discovered to be gay.

:25:48. > :25:52.It was. We used to do this thing called media watch, in the first 20

:25:53. > :25:56.years of Daytimes, and we would look at things which publications had

:25:57. > :26:03.printed, which you would not possibly see these days. In terms of

:26:04. > :26:10.his political legacy on other fronts, was that difficult,

:26:11. > :26:21.perhaps? He is controversial, but anybody who tough decisions ends up

:26:22. > :26:27.being a reversal. For Gay Times, and for me personally, you can have

:26:28. > :26:32.different opinions on different subjects, but on gay rights, he

:26:33. > :26:38.stood up for it, and he stood up for gay equality. Previous prime

:26:39. > :26:41.ministers had not done that. Thank you very much for joining us. That

:26:42. > :26:58.is all from the programme. Next, the weather.

:26:59. > :27:06.We are likely to see some patches of mist and fork forming overnight,

:27:07. > :27:10.particularly across some areas of southern England.