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This programme contains some strong language. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
Being in a successful band can seem like a dream come true. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:08 | |
Our dream was to become big rock stars, | 0:00:08 | 0:00:10 | |
make out with lots of girls, | 0:00:10 | 0:00:11 | |
and, of course, do lots of drugs. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:14 | |
And our dream came true. | 0:00:14 | 0:00:16 | |
But the vast majority of bands break up badly. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:22 | |
Johnny dropped the bombshell. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
The colour went from everybody's face. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
And that was that. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:29 | |
The truth is that band life can easily become a nightmare. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:36 | |
It was getting a little bit crabby and bitchy, and... | 0:00:36 | 0:00:39 | |
I suppose we were growing apart, really. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:41 | |
The chemistry that actually makes great music, and forms great bands, | 0:00:41 | 0:00:47 | |
is inevitably the chemistry that destroys them. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:51 | |
The word "dysfunctional" and "band" should be synonymous. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
So I'm going to show you what life in a great band is really like. | 0:00:56 | 0:01:00 | |
Conflicts and confrontations can erupt. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
MUFFLED VOICES | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
"I hate him, I love him, I hate him." It got more confused. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:12 | |
There are jealousies and resentments... | 0:01:14 | 0:01:16 | |
They very quickly see that certain members are getting more attention... | 0:01:16 | 0:01:21 | |
"Dear Robbie, you are best in show business." | 0:01:21 | 0:01:25 | |
..more sex, and are getting more money. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:28 | |
..and long-standing relationships that can go sour. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:32 | |
We don't want to discuss our private life any more. | 0:01:32 | 0:01:35 | |
At least not I. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:36 | |
And we'll discover the secrets of bands | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
who successfully stay the course. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
We're like a band of brothers, I guess. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:44 | |
We have been doing this so long now, it is no longer a career, | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
it is actually what you do with your life. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
Just about everyone has dreamt of being in a band at some point. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:59 | |
Some of us have been doing it since our teens with mixed results. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
I've been in loads of brilliant bands since I was a kid | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
and yet remain mystifyingly unappreciated by the general public. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:08 | |
Well, it's your loss. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:09 | |
But at the centre of every band lies this thing called creative tension. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:14 | |
Can this be a force for good? | 0:02:14 | 0:02:15 | |
Well, yes, it can, and lead to the production of great music, | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
but it can also be a very destructive thing. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
So, what are these destructive forces that blow a band apart | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
and what are the secrets of staying together? | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
# Roxanne, you don't have to put on the red light... # | 0:02:27 | 0:02:34 | |
Every band dreams of global success like this. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
But be careful what you wish for. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:40 | |
# Roxanne... # | 0:02:41 | 0:02:43 | |
Being seriously famous is where the problems start, | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
as many band members will tell you. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:48 | |
There should be a band prenup. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:51 | |
It should be called the Hooky Prenup that you all sign | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
when you're all big mates at the start, | 0:02:54 | 0:02:56 | |
of how you are going to handle it when it all falls apart. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
The splits we have had within our band, | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
when I look back on it now, | 0:03:02 | 0:03:04 | |
probably two weeks' holiday in Cuba would have solved the problem. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:09 | |
Somebody comes back with a fresh perspective. But... | 0:03:09 | 0:03:15 | |
But when you get someone in a stranglehold in a rehearsal room, | 0:03:15 | 0:03:18 | |
that's...you know, unlikely. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
# Every little thing she does is magic... # | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
The Police are one of many super-successful bands | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
who have had to deal with these pressures. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:29 | |
Between 1977 and 1983, | 0:03:29 | 0:03:32 | |
the trio became the biggest band in the world, | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
eventually selling nearly 25 million records in the USA alone. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:39 | |
Those early days | 0:03:39 | 0:03:40 | |
of the wonderful camaraderie that you got, | 0:03:40 | 0:03:43 | |
three mates in the back of a van travelling across Oklahoma | 0:03:43 | 0:03:47 | |
to try and make it to some miserable den | 0:03:47 | 0:03:49 | |
to do a gig to 14 people, those days have gone. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:53 | |
Now you are really famous. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:55 | |
Now everyone, Hollywood celebrities, want to come to your gigs. | 0:03:55 | 0:03:59 | |
And you actually grow more estranged. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:01 | |
You start going in separate cars. You find it harder. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
Suddenly, you've got to get back in the studio | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
and be the three mates again | 0:04:07 | 0:04:08 | |
and get that camaraderie and looseness back to where you were. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:12 | |
The whole world is standing | 0:04:12 | 0:04:14 | |
at the back door of the studio, waiting for it. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:16 | |
"Jesus. This is intense." | 0:04:16 | 0:04:17 | |
We are like this all the time. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
-This what you get. -We'll be like this tomorrow. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:21 | |
At the moment, I want to have a fight. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:23 | |
-You do? -Better television than your questions, I promise you. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
-OK. -I'll tell you what. Shall we film me whupping Sting? -Yes. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:29 | |
-That would be good, wouldn't it? -That would be great. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
Oh, dear. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:35 | |
'There are not very many entirely happy bands, I suppose.' | 0:04:35 | 0:04:39 | |
Whether a band survives those pressures or not | 0:04:39 | 0:04:41 | |
depends entirely on what kind of people they are. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
How they treat each other. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:49 | |
How their internal chemistry and dynamics work. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:51 | |
It's the conflict that creates that very creative spark. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:56 | |
I don't think you can have three or four mellow guys | 0:04:56 | 0:04:58 | |
becoming a great band. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:00 | |
You don't want to be too agreeable. | 0:05:00 | 0:05:02 | |
In our band, we were all fighting for that place in the sun. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:05 | |
And fight they did. A lot. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:07 | |
Most memorably here at New York's Shea Stadium in 1983. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:12 | |
Yes, I saw that happen. I was on the stage when it happened. | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
They were rolling around, having a mock fight. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
And the mock fight got a bit serious | 0:05:21 | 0:05:23 | |
and Sting wound up with a broken rib. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:25 | |
There are quite big boys, both Stewart and Sting. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:30 | |
I wouldn't want to get in a punch-up with them myself, I can tell you. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
All bands are at each other's throats sometimes. | 0:05:35 | 0:05:37 | |
That's rock and roll. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
But when all the members are creative types like in The Police, | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
it can cause all kinds of trouble. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:44 | |
Certain things sort of crystallise. In our case, it was Sting. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:50 | |
Because I thought I was writing some really good songs. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
But he wouldn't sing them. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:54 | |
I thought some of my songs were better than his. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:56 | |
It becomes a sort of failed democracy. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:59 | |
-The band was not the happiest band? -No. -Why was that? | 0:06:00 | 0:06:04 | |
Well, we all cared passionately about the music we were playing. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:07 | |
We were all very strong personalities | 0:06:07 | 0:06:10 | |
and I wanted to run the show, but we had a fight. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:15 | |
-Literally... -A physical fight? -Fisticuffs in-between encores. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:19 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:06:19 | 0:06:21 | |
I think there were always tussles in The Police | 0:06:22 | 0:06:25 | |
about which record should be the single. | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
So there were always disagreements on that score. | 0:06:27 | 0:06:30 | |
Sting usually got his way. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
He knew a hit when he heard it. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:34 | |
# Every breath you take... # | 0:06:34 | 0:06:39 | |
You just take a look at any of them - | 0:06:39 | 0:06:41 | |
Rod Stewart, Mick Jagger, any of those star frontmen - | 0:06:41 | 0:06:46 | |
they have a ruthless quality | 0:06:46 | 0:06:48 | |
and that's how they survive. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
The cliche about personal and musical differences | 0:06:52 | 0:06:55 | |
breaking up bands is a cliche because it is true. | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
In 1984, Sting chose a solo career | 0:06:58 | 0:07:01 | |
where he had complete creative control. | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
# If you need somebody call my name... # | 0:07:05 | 0:07:10 | |
'The logical thing would be | 0:07:10 | 0:07:13 | |
'to stay in The Police because we were' | 0:07:13 | 0:07:14 | |
the most successful band. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:16 | |
As we say, we sold 45 million records. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:18 | |
Why on earth would you leave that situation? | 0:07:18 | 0:07:21 | |
Except my instinct told me to start again. | 0:07:21 | 0:07:24 | |
# Get up and throw away the key... # | 0:07:24 | 0:07:26 | |
What we should've done if Sting wanted to go and do a solo record | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
was, "Go and do it, man, but let's come back together | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
"and do the real thing in two years' time." | 0:07:32 | 0:07:34 | |
Take a couple of years' break, which people do now. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:37 | |
They take years. We were, like, we were still young and on fire, | 0:07:37 | 0:07:41 | |
we had the world in the palm of our hand. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:43 | |
We could have gone on for a long time. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
But we got off and let U2 take over basically. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:48 | |
For those not abstemious like me, | 0:07:58 | 0:08:00 | |
drink and drugs have been the fuel of the band lifestyle. | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
Many take their highs on the road just to keep going. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:06 | |
For others, it's just for kicks, isn't it? It's just a high. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:10 | |
Drink and drugs - it's always been rock and roll. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:13 | |
Peanut? Sweet chilli. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:15 | |
I mean, it started with alcohol, then it went to pep pills. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:24 | |
Then it went to marijuana, | 0:08:24 | 0:08:26 | |
then it went to LSD, then it went to cocaine. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:28 | |
Then it went to heroin. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:29 | |
Heroin was the killer. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
MUSIC: Voodoo Child by Jimi Hendrix Experience | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
Keith Richards once said a really, | 0:08:38 | 0:08:40 | |
to me, seemingly so realistic explanation | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
of why he started to take hard drugs - | 0:08:44 | 0:08:46 | |
he's touring every single day, | 0:08:46 | 0:08:48 | |
he's getting a huge buzz off the crowd, | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
every single day, his best friends are down the hall, | 0:08:51 | 0:08:54 | |
it's all amazing, and then it just stops. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
You're supposed to go back into real life. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
I think that - you can see why they have problems. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:03 | |
I think the problem with drugs in rock and roll | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
is you don't hear many stories where people are, | 0:09:10 | 0:09:12 | |
"Yeah, yeah, I started taking drugs. | 0:09:12 | 0:09:14 | |
"You know what? It ended fantastically. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
"I was much more creative, I had a wonderful marriage, my kids love me." | 0:09:16 | 0:09:20 | |
You know, it's exactly the opposite. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:23 | |
MUSIC: Welcome To The Jungle by Guns N' Roses | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
One of the many great bands pulled apart by drink and drugs | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
were '80s LA mega-rockers Guns N' Roses. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
# Welcome to the jungle | 0:09:33 | 0:09:35 | |
# We've got fun and games | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
# We've got everything you want | 0:09:37 | 0:09:39 | |
# Honey, we know the names | 0:09:39 | 0:09:41 | |
# We are the people that can find... # | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
The first night | 0:09:43 | 0:09:44 | |
on the Motley Crue tour. | 0:09:44 | 0:09:45 | |
We'd just gone on stage and Tommy Lee said, | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
"Come here, Stevie, I want to show you something." | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
He takes me into one of those rooms, those big rooms, | 0:09:52 | 0:09:54 | |
and there was six-foot tables, with the legs that fold under. | 0:09:54 | 0:10:00 | |
There was two lines of coke, | 0:10:00 | 0:10:03 | |
the whole length of the table. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:04 | |
He said, "You start there, I start here." We met in the middle. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:08 | |
There was couches behind us, and we, both of us... | 0:10:08 | 0:10:11 | |
MUSIC: Paradise City by Guns N' Roses | 0:10:11 | 0:10:13 | |
So their 1987 album title Appetite for Destruction | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
was a bit to close to the truth. | 0:10:16 | 0:10:19 | |
You know, we're just five guys that drink a lot. | 0:10:19 | 0:10:22 | |
We have fun together. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:23 | |
But it sold more than 28 million copies worldwide - | 0:10:23 | 0:10:28 | |
the USA's best-selling debut album of all time. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
# Take me down to the paradise city | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
# Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty | 0:10:34 | 0:10:37 | |
# Oh, won't you please take me home... ? # | 0:10:37 | 0:10:41 | |
Guns N' Roses reinvented the idea of rock and roll debauchery | 0:10:41 | 0:10:47 | |
at a time when its cache had dwindled a little bit. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:53 | |
It's amazing that the core line-up lasted as long as it did. | 0:10:53 | 0:10:57 | |
I don't think there was anything | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
that could have kept the band together. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:01 | |
It was on the path it was on. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
At their peak - if that's the right word - | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
all four players in Guns N' Roses were overdoing it | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
on drink, drugs or both. | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
Adler was fired in 1990. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:19 | |
The band said his drug use was affecting his drumming. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:22 | |
He took the news badly. | 0:11:22 | 0:11:23 | |
I tried to kill myself a few times. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:27 | |
It didn't work. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:29 | |
There was two separate occasions I took 100 Valiums, | 0:11:30 | 0:11:36 | |
I drunk a big bottle of Jagermeister | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
and shot up three forks of grandma heroin. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
Had the best sleep I ever had in my life. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:45 | |
Somehow, Adler survived his appetite for self-destruction. | 0:11:48 | 0:11:51 | |
I tried to cut my wrist, I have some nice scars right there, | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
if you want to zoom in on it. | 0:11:56 | 0:11:58 | |
Not very attractive. | 0:11:58 | 0:11:59 | |
I got this and this | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
from shooting cocaine and missing. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:06 | |
So...I've got scars head to toe. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
I broke my chin. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:10 | |
I mean, shattered my chin. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:12 | |
Broke my nose a few times. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:17 | |
I'm surprised I'm alive. | 0:12:17 | 0:12:19 | |
Happy relationships are one of the keys to keeping a band together. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
Maybe you've been friends for a very long time. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
Perhaps you're in love. Even better if you're married. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:32 | |
Perhaps you've lived your whole lives together | 0:12:32 | 0:12:35 | |
having been related by birth. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:37 | |
Those have got to be the firm foundations | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
which ensure lasting success, haven't they? | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
Well, possibly, until it becomes a matter of... | 0:12:42 | 0:12:44 | |
"Actually, I know we've always been mates, but I hate you." | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
"Actually, I'm not in love with you any more. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:50 | |
"In fact, actually, why don't we get divorced?" | 0:12:50 | 0:12:52 | |
"Actually, I know you're my brother, but I've always resented you." | 0:12:52 | 0:12:56 | |
Well, that's when things get really tricky. | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
Being in a band with your sibling can be a disaster, | 0:13:03 | 0:13:06 | |
especially if you're a Gallagher. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:08 | |
They had a punch-up | 0:13:11 | 0:13:12 | |
the very first interview they did with some guy from NME. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
Before anyone knew who they were, it got them their first press. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:19 | |
MUSIC: Live Forever by Oasis | 0:13:19 | 0:13:21 | |
So the surprise isn't that Oasis split up, | 0:13:21 | 0:13:23 | |
but that they managed to stay together for as long as they did. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:27 | |
We all wanted it to last forever. | 0:13:29 | 0:13:31 | |
I certainly did, do you know what I mean? | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
But I was always aware that when it came to it, | 0:13:33 | 0:13:35 | |
that one of us would eventually... | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
..you know, say, | 0:13:39 | 0:13:40 | |
"Eff you and you and you and you and you." | 0:13:40 | 0:13:42 | |
It just happened to me. It could well have been Liam. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:44 | |
# I live my life in the city | 0:13:44 | 0:13:48 | |
# There's no easy way out... # | 0:13:48 | 0:13:49 | |
The warring brothers, the battling brothers. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:52 | |
That was always the Oasis story, wasn't it? | 0:13:52 | 0:13:54 | |
In the end, that's what finished the group off as well. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
Noel left in 2009 when Liam threatened him with a guitar | 0:13:58 | 0:14:02 | |
and threw - wait for it - | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
a plum. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:05 | |
Times to consider the role of fruit in history. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:08 | |
Pride of place - what with Adam and Eve, Isaac Newton | 0:14:08 | 0:14:10 | |
and Steve Jobs - belongs, of course, to the apple. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:12 | |
But it turns out the plum has had a significant impact | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
on modern music. | 0:14:15 | 0:14:16 | |
# I'm a rock and roll star... # | 0:14:19 | 0:14:22 | |
# I'm just a poor boy | 0:14:23 | 0:14:24 | |
# Though my story's seldom told... # | 0:14:24 | 0:14:27 | |
'60s duo Simon and Garfunkel had been friends since the age of 12, | 0:14:27 | 0:14:31 | |
but even that couldn't keep them together. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:34 | |
Why did you break up? | 0:14:34 | 0:14:35 | |
People said that you were getting fed up with the sight of each other. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
Was it just too much of each other at that time? | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
I think Paul knows the answer. I was never sure myself. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:46 | |
Simon, who wrote all the songs, | 0:14:46 | 0:14:48 | |
seems to have felt overshadowed by Art Garfunkel's angelic voice. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
He admired Bob Dylan, who had blazed a trail in the '60s | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
for the solo singer-songwriter. | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
Paul Simon was very torn. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
He really, I think, wanted to be a solo star, | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
but he knew Artie's voice gave him something | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
that nothing else gave him - | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
a kind of gloss, a kind of romance, a sweetness. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:14 | |
# She once was a true love of mine... # | 0:15:15 | 0:15:22 | |
Annie Nightingale famously asked him | 0:15:22 | 0:15:23 | |
this question on camera in an interview - | 0:15:23 | 0:15:28 | |
"Do you feel it harder now to write songs | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
"now that you're no longer working with Garfunkel?" | 0:15:31 | 0:15:34 | |
Well, we weren't a writing partnership. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:36 | |
We didn't write together. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:38 | |
It was always your song, his song, your song, his song? | 0:15:38 | 0:15:41 | |
No, he never. He didn't write any. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:43 | |
He didn't write any. I don't mean... | 0:15:43 | 0:15:45 | |
I feel funny. He didn't write any of the songs. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
I wrote all of the Simon And Garfunkel songs. | 0:15:47 | 0:15:48 | |
God, he was cross. | 0:15:48 | 0:15:51 | |
Boy, he was cross. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
A 1984 reunion album, eventually called Hearts And Bones, | 0:15:53 | 0:15:57 | |
did not end well. | 0:15:57 | 0:15:59 | |
Do you think the rest from each other has done you good in the end? | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
-Yeah. -Oh, sure. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:05 | |
Do you think you might stay together, then? | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
Eh...for a bit. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:10 | |
-LAUGHING: -Yeah. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:11 | |
From what I understand, | 0:16:12 | 0:16:14 | |
one of the things that Art Garfunkel used to do | 0:16:14 | 0:16:18 | |
when he was very angry at Paul | 0:16:18 | 0:16:21 | |
was he would disappear. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:23 | |
What seemed to be common knowledge | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
was that he said he was going to go for a walk | 0:16:26 | 0:16:30 | |
and he didn't come back for days. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
It turned out, apparently, | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
that he was walking between two towns in South America. | 0:16:35 | 0:16:39 | |
Um, and... | 0:16:39 | 0:16:41 | |
Paul blew a gasket and he was fired. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:47 | |
There was a suggestion that when he released Hearts And Bones | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
he took your voice off the album | 0:16:50 | 0:16:53 | |
-in the British press. Is that true? -Mm-hmm. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
# If you change your mind | 0:16:56 | 0:16:57 | |
-# Take a chance... -I'm the first in line... # | 0:16:57 | 0:17:00 | |
Band life is a bit like a marriage, | 0:17:00 | 0:17:01 | |
so what happens when actual marriages | 0:17:01 | 0:17:04 | |
between band mates fall apart? | 0:17:04 | 0:17:06 | |
ABBA contained two couples - | 0:17:06 | 0:17:08 | |
Bjorn and Agnetha, Anni-Frid and Benny. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
They conquered the charts in the '70s | 0:17:10 | 0:17:12 | |
and have sold over 350 million records. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
# If you're all alone | 0:17:15 | 0:17:17 | |
# When the pretty birds have flown... # | 0:17:17 | 0:17:19 | |
The band managed to survive Bjorn and Agnetha's separation in 1980. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:22 | |
We don't want to discuss our private lives, you know? | 0:17:23 | 0:17:26 | |
We don't want to discuss it any more. | 0:17:26 | 0:17:28 | |
At least not I. | 0:17:28 | 0:17:29 | |
There's no question. It's working really well. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
The divorce was because we couldn't live together. That's all. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:37 | |
Heartbreak can, of course, lead to great music. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:40 | |
Bjorn channelled his grief into the classic song Winner Takes It All. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:45 | |
He'd been at home | 0:17:45 | 0:17:47 | |
with a bottle of whisky by his side, | 0:17:47 | 0:17:49 | |
which he more or less emptied as he wrote these lyrics. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:52 | |
It took maybe an hour for him to write those lyrics. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:58 | |
It turned out to be a masterpiece. | 0:17:58 | 0:17:59 | |
# I don't wanna talk | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
# About things we've gone through... # | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
Bjorn brought the lyrics to the studio, | 0:18:07 | 0:18:09 | |
showed them to Agnetha, who read them through | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
and actually, she was so moved, she started crying in the studio. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:17 | |
But there were no winners | 0:18:17 | 0:18:19 | |
when Benny and Frida divorced the following year. | 0:18:19 | 0:18:21 | |
It was the beginning of the end for Abba. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:24 | |
The papers recently have been full of stories that you are | 0:18:24 | 0:18:26 | |
going to split eventually. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:28 | |
-We're not. -You're not? | 0:18:28 | 0:18:31 | |
It would be more of a feeling, I think, because when we were | 0:18:31 | 0:18:35 | |
recording an album, we would feel that it's not fun any more. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:38 | |
We haven't got anything more to give. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:41 | |
And that would be the time to split. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:43 | |
-We should have done that a long time ago, then. -I know. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
Abba never formally split up - they never stood on a balcony | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
and said, "Goodbye, everyone. This is the end of the Abba story. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:55 | |
I think that's why they're still so fascinated with them. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
# To me. # | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
CHEERING | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
'70s Californian outfit Fleetwood Mac also contained | 0:19:09 | 0:19:12 | |
two married couples, but not for long. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
# Don't stop thinking about tomorrow | 0:19:15 | 0:19:19 | |
# Don't stop... # | 0:19:19 | 0:19:20 | |
Things were happening in lives, you know. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:23 | |
People..."Fuck you, screw you. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:25 | |
"Well, OK, I'll screw you..." | 0:19:25 | 0:19:28 | |
The only ones who didn't have an affair were me and Mick. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
HE CHUCKLES | 0:19:31 | 0:19:33 | |
Both marriages collapsed and they wrote songs about each other. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:37 | |
A lot of the Rumours album was | 0:19:37 | 0:19:39 | |
actually about the disintegration of both relationships | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
and the rather remarkable decision of the band | 0:19:42 | 0:19:46 | |
to carry on regardless. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:48 | |
Fleetwood Mac's 1976 album is like group therapy in song form. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:53 | |
And it sold an extraordinary 40 million copies. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:56 | |
Lindsey Buckingham penned Go Your Own Way to Stevie Nicks, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:01 | |
including the sensitive line... | 0:20:01 | 0:20:03 | |
# Loving you isn't the right thing to do | 0:20:03 | 0:20:08 | |
# You can go your own way... # | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
Stevie was very angry at Lindsey and she retaliated | 0:20:14 | 0:20:20 | |
with lyrics of her own. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:22 | |
But Stevie was never a real negative person, | 0:20:22 | 0:20:26 | |
so she would turn it into something that was a little more positive | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
and a little more hopeful. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
# Now here you go again | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
# You say you want your freedom | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
# Well, who am I to keep you down? # | 0:20:40 | 0:20:46 | |
There were times when I thought | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
"This is too much for me." | 0:20:49 | 0:20:50 | |
But, you know, sit me in a room | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
of five crying people and... | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
..I'm a soft touch, you know. | 0:20:57 | 0:20:59 | |
It's like, you know, I've always said I'd never be the one, | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
I'd never be the one to break up Fleetwood Mac. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:04 | |
Somebody else can do that. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:06 | |
I think that it was because of that honesty | 0:21:07 | 0:21:11 | |
that their success grew exponentially. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:16 | |
Because people could relate to it. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:19 | |
# When the rain washes you clean you'll know... # | 0:21:19 | 0:21:23 | |
Drummer Mick Fleetwood somehow managed to hold the band together, | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
despite his wife sleeping with his best friend, | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
band guitarist Bob Weston. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:34 | |
And there are still out there playing, you know, | 0:21:36 | 0:21:40 | |
because they are, you know, married to the mob, you know? | 0:21:40 | 0:21:45 | |
That's forevermore. That's what they are. | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
# Thunder only happens... # | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
When creative tension is good, it can be very good indeed. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:54 | |
And when it's bad, well, you get the general idea. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:58 | |
Just ask the Beatles. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:00 | |
# Love, love me do | 0:22:00 | 0:22:03 | |
# You know I love you... # | 0:22:03 | 0:22:06 | |
From their first hit, Love Me Do, in 1963, | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
right through to that final performance | 0:22:09 | 0:22:11 | |
on a rooftop in Savile Row, | 0:22:11 | 0:22:13 | |
it was just six years. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
But from that all too brief career, their spectacular success | 0:22:15 | 0:22:19 | |
and dramatic collapse, | 0:22:19 | 0:22:20 | |
they set the template for so many bands who came after them. | 0:22:20 | 0:22:24 | |
# She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah | 0:22:24 | 0:22:27 | |
# She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah | 0:22:27 | 0:22:30 | |
# And with a love like that | 0:22:30 | 0:22:31 | |
# You know you should be glad. # | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
The Fab Four were the first band to write their own songs, | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
which was brilliant, but also left room for trouble. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
There was the creative tension, obviously. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:44 | |
Lennon and McCartney had monopolised the songwriting credits throughout. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:48 | |
George Harrison was actually a pretty good songwriter himself, | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
but he'd been cut out from a very early stage | 0:22:51 | 0:22:54 | |
and was very resentful of that. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:56 | |
Before long, Lennon and McCartney began to pull | 0:22:58 | 0:23:01 | |
in different creative directions, and in 1970, the Beatles split up. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:06 | |
So they were sort of semi-detached. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:08 | |
That was starting to lead towards their solo careers, | 0:23:08 | 0:23:11 | |
so lots of those tunes that ended up on their first solo records | 0:23:11 | 0:23:15 | |
could easily have been on the later Beatles records. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:19 | |
But by then, they'd kind of drifted apart. | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
Well, I mean, the truth was that | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
when the Beatles broke up, you out of a job. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:31 | |
That was a very depressing time. | 0:23:31 | 0:23:33 | |
Because, as I say, the group had done its thing, | 0:23:33 | 0:23:35 | |
I think we were all beginning to feel we had come full circle | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
and it was getting a bit crabby and bitchy. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:41 | |
It just wasn't as pleasant as it had been and... | 0:23:41 | 0:23:45 | |
I suppose we were growing apart, really. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:47 | |
So, the Beatles exited the roof of the Apple building | 0:23:52 | 0:23:55 | |
and entered the history books. | 0:23:55 | 0:23:57 | |
And yet somehow their closest rivals, | 0:23:57 | 0:23:59 | |
the Rolling Stones, managed to hold it all together, | 0:23:59 | 0:24:02 | |
despite the same pressures of superstardom | 0:24:02 | 0:24:05 | |
and one member who thought of himself | 0:24:05 | 0:24:07 | |
very much as the star attraction. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:09 | |
The Stones were the first to come out with a guy | 0:24:12 | 0:24:15 | |
absolutely upfront, someone whose sole job was doing the singing. | 0:24:15 | 0:24:19 | |
# If you start me up... # | 0:24:20 | 0:24:21 | |
You know, it makes sense to have a solo vocalist at the front. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
Gives you someone to focus your attention on. | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
Jagger defined the role, really, and I think everyone who came | 0:24:27 | 0:24:30 | |
after him, to some extent, followed in his footsteps. | 0:24:30 | 0:24:34 | |
# I live in an apartment on the 99th floor of my block... # | 0:24:34 | 0:24:39 | |
When I first took over PR for the Stones, | 0:24:39 | 0:24:41 | |
in my first meeting with Mick, | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
it wasn't long before Mick was explaining to me, | 0:24:43 | 0:24:46 | |
"Charlie doesn't do interviews, Bill is boring, Keith is out of it, | 0:24:46 | 0:24:50 | |
"Ronnie does what I tell him, | 0:24:50 | 0:24:52 | |
"you talk to me." | 0:24:52 | 0:24:54 | |
I thought, "We know where we are now." | 0:24:56 | 0:24:58 | |
It's the Mick Jagger show. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:01 | |
HE CHUCKLES | 0:25:01 | 0:25:03 | |
# I know it's only rock'n'roll | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
# But I like it... # | 0:25:07 | 0:25:10 | |
But without Mick, it probably would have crumbled. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:13 | |
You know, somebody had to pull things together, and he did it. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
When the lead singer gets most of the attention, | 0:25:17 | 0:25:20 | |
it can lead to resentment among the other band members. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:23 | |
In the worst-case scenario, it results in what Keith Richards | 0:25:23 | 0:25:28 | |
calls, in a swipe at Jagger, LVS - | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
lead vocalist syndrome. | 0:25:31 | 0:25:32 | |
Lead singer syndrome is not a myth, it is a syndrome. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:38 | |
You just have got to keep a perspective on yourself. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:43 | |
You are just a human being. You need to remember that. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:47 | |
The moment you start thinking | 0:25:47 | 0:25:49 | |
and behaving like a rock god, | 0:25:49 | 0:25:52 | |
you are in serious trouble. | 0:25:52 | 0:25:54 | |
Guns N' Roses lead singer Axl Rose had his own, um...eccentricities. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:04 | |
They became more extreme as the band's success grew. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
Sometimes he's an asshole, you know. And he'll admit it. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:11 | |
And he'll say sorry later. | 0:26:11 | 0:26:12 | |
But it's just something he can't really help right now, you know. | 0:26:12 | 0:26:16 | |
Rose had a habit of arriving late on stage - really, really late - | 0:26:21 | 0:26:25 | |
prompting riots at stadiums around the world. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:28 | |
He said he's coming to this thing, | 0:26:28 | 0:26:30 | |
and the announcer doesn't come out, makes 'em wait | 0:26:30 | 0:26:33 | |
for four or five hours till one or two in the morning. | 0:26:33 | 0:26:37 | |
I'd say, "Oh, these guys are coming, sing a friggin' couple of songs. | 0:26:37 | 0:26:41 | |
"What's the deal?" And I would say that, I would say that to him. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:45 | |
"What's the deal? Let's go." | 0:26:45 | 0:26:48 | |
And he wouldn't like it. And that's why I was the first to go. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:53 | |
It's because I stood up to him. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
By 1997, only Axl Rose remained of the original Guns N' Roses line-up. | 0:26:57 | 0:27:02 | |
# Shine on, shine a light on me... # | 0:27:05 | 0:27:09 | |
Just about every band that becomes globally successful | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
wrestles with lead singer syndrome - | 0:27:14 | 0:27:16 | |
bands like Simple Minds who, during the '80s, | 0:27:16 | 0:27:19 | |
went from arthouse Euro-popsters to American stadium fillers. | 0:27:19 | 0:27:23 | |
Yeah, I think I've got an A+ in the lead singer syndrome, it was my job. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:29 | |
# What a world Or sometimes, oh, so it seems... # | 0:27:29 | 0:27:34 | |
You have to be a bit of an arsehole, I think. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:37 | |
You know, you're standing there, the music is playing, | 0:27:38 | 0:27:41 | |
all their stuff, and you are standing with the spotlight on you, going... | 0:27:41 | 0:27:45 | |
It's me. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:46 | |
Bar making the odd nod to them. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:50 | |
While they got hopefully a sort of 10-minute...10-second solo. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:54 | |
The problem is that, you know, you are young | 0:27:59 | 0:28:02 | |
and...the oxygen then starts to get rare. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
And you start to sort of... | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
..you know - "No, it's my hands on the driving wheel." | 0:28:10 | 0:28:13 | |
And, you know, with great bands, | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
it's never one person's hands on the driving wheel. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:19 | |
And you can see why all the others would tire of that. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:24 | |
Yet the core of Simple Minds, like the Rolling Stones, | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
is still going strong, | 0:28:27 | 0:28:29 | |
so what's the secret of a lasting musical relationship? | 0:28:29 | 0:28:32 | |
# Reel to reel... # | 0:28:33 | 0:28:35 | |
People talk about what we've been in, | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
they say, "It's like a marriage, isn't it?" | 0:28:37 | 0:28:39 | |
And I say, "No - first of all we don't sleep with each other, | 0:28:39 | 0:28:42 | |
"and as yet, Charlie hasn't taken my house off me." | 0:28:42 | 0:28:46 | |
So it's not like a marriage at all. | 0:28:46 | 0:28:48 | |
One of the problems Jim and I had, actually, | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
was that after so long together, we started thinking like one person. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
You know...it's great to have a little bit of tension in there. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
I think we are very tolerant, | 0:29:02 | 0:29:05 | |
so inside the tension, there's a great tolerance as well. | 0:29:05 | 0:29:10 | |
# Hey, hey, hey, hey | 0:29:12 | 0:29:15 | |
# Oooh... # | 0:29:16 | 0:29:17 | |
By 1985, this song, Don't You Forget About Me, | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
was a global hit. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:23 | |
But just as the big time beckoned, the band began to fall apart. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:27 | |
At the time, we were arguably one of the biggest bands in the world, | 0:29:29 | 0:29:33 | |
and the way I see it, I've got this...image in my head, | 0:29:33 | 0:29:37 | |
you know - we were like a jumbo jet | 0:29:37 | 0:29:39 | |
that was starting to lose engines every month. | 0:29:39 | 0:29:43 | |
Charlie and I still trying to pilot it through. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:46 | |
# Don't you forget about me... # | 0:29:46 | 0:29:53 | |
Over the years, the entire rhythm section, drums, bass and keyboards - | 0:29:53 | 0:29:57 | |
this was the '80s, after all - have all left, one by one. | 0:29:57 | 0:30:01 | |
But Jim and Charlie have kept going with a changing cast of members. | 0:30:01 | 0:30:05 | |
I think, simply, you just have to be into it or not. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:09 | |
And it takes about 10 years to find out if people are into it. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:12 | |
One of the members, he said, "I've had enough." | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
He said, "I've given 10 years of my life to this." | 0:30:15 | 0:30:21 | |
You'd have thought he was on Robben Island. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:24 | |
As opposed to the Four Seasons in New York. | 0:30:24 | 0:30:28 | |
"I've given 10 years of my life to this." | 0:30:28 | 0:30:32 | |
And we were sort of looking, and thinking, | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
"There's another 40 to go! We're only starting out!" | 0:30:35 | 0:30:38 | |
# Here's to the babies in a brand-new world | 0:30:38 | 0:30:43 | |
# Here's to the beauty of the stars... # | 0:30:43 | 0:30:45 | |
We have proven to be in it for the long haul. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
We've been doing this so long now that it's no longer a career, | 0:30:48 | 0:30:51 | |
it's actually what you do with your life. | 0:30:51 | 0:30:53 | |
# Here's to you, my little loves | 0:30:53 | 0:30:56 | |
# The message from above | 0:30:56 | 0:30:58 | |
# Let the day begin... # | 0:30:58 | 0:31:01 | |
A lot of bands have a core creative partnership at their centre. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:05 | |
Two people who come up with all the songs. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
A kind of musical yin and yang. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:09 | |
And the problem is that sometimes, | 0:31:09 | 0:31:11 | |
Yin and Yang don't like each other very much. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:14 | |
Yin wants a separate limo from Yang. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:16 | |
They come to town to do a gig | 0:31:16 | 0:31:17 | |
and Yang wants to be in a separate hotel from Yin, | 0:31:17 | 0:31:20 | |
on the other side of the city. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:22 | |
Basically, what I'm saying is what's it like | 0:31:22 | 0:31:24 | |
when Yin and Yang can't stand the sight of each other? | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
Well, look at Mick and Keith. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:29 | |
I think there's always been a little bit of friction. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:35 | |
I mean, the classic one I can recall is the one where | 0:31:35 | 0:31:38 | |
the reporter said to Keith, | 0:31:38 | 0:31:41 | |
"When are you going to stop this bitching between you and Mick?" | 0:31:41 | 0:31:44 | |
Keith said, "Ask the bitch." | 0:31:44 | 0:31:46 | |
I love the man. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:53 | |
You know, he can be a pain sometimes, but then, no doubt I can. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:57 | |
But working with a bunch of people for this amount of time is, | 0:31:59 | 0:32:03 | |
you know, it is fairly unique. | 0:32:03 | 0:32:05 | |
As the Rolling Stones tour manager and pianist, | 0:32:05 | 0:32:08 | |
this man, Ian Stewart, | 0:32:08 | 0:32:10 | |
helped keep the band together from their formation in 1962 | 0:32:10 | 0:32:14 | |
to Stewart's death in 1985. | 0:32:14 | 0:32:16 | |
People had been imploring them to go on stage for about an hour, | 0:32:17 | 0:32:20 | |
you know, cos the crowd were getting restless outside | 0:32:20 | 0:32:22 | |
and there was going to be a riot. | 0:32:22 | 0:32:24 | |
"You've got to get out there, they're tearing the place apart." | 0:32:24 | 0:32:26 | |
Stew would come in with his torch and he'd say, | 0:32:26 | 0:32:30 | |
"All right, come on, my little three-chord wonders." | 0:32:30 | 0:32:33 | |
And they'd all dutifully troop out behind him and go on stage. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:36 | |
It's surprising how many long-lasting bands | 0:32:42 | 0:32:44 | |
are held together by one key figure. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:46 | |
For Coldplay, one of the world's most successful acts, | 0:32:46 | 0:32:49 | |
it's their creative director, Phil Harvey. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:52 | |
Phil Harvey is our fifth member. | 0:32:52 | 0:32:54 | |
He was our first and original manager. | 0:32:54 | 0:32:58 | |
He paid for us to record our first EP. | 0:32:58 | 0:33:01 | |
He put on our first proper show in London. He's one of us. | 0:33:01 | 0:33:04 | |
He's the buffer between us and everything else. | 0:33:04 | 0:33:06 | |
For the five of us, there's a balance. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:08 | |
There's a chemistry. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:10 | |
I sort of thing of myself as a liquid glue | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
that just runs and fills any gaps that need filling. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:17 | |
# Singing please, please, please... # | 0:33:19 | 0:33:23 | |
When I notice that the tension between | 0:33:23 | 0:33:28 | |
two band members is getting... | 0:33:28 | 0:33:30 | |
..you know, might just be getting a little bit too intense, | 0:33:32 | 0:33:34 | |
then I think maybe it's my job just to kind of step in | 0:33:34 | 0:33:38 | |
and ease it off a little bit. | 0:33:38 | 0:33:40 | |
# In my place, in my place... # | 0:33:40 | 0:33:43 | |
I think there's a principle in architecture called tensegrity, | 0:33:44 | 0:33:49 | |
which comes from tension and integrity. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:52 | |
And it's the idea that if there's just the right amount of tension | 0:33:52 | 0:33:58 | |
between just the right component parts, | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
then the structure will stay upright. | 0:34:01 | 0:34:04 | |
When we're in the studio | 0:34:04 | 0:34:06 | |
and the steam is coming out of people's ears | 0:34:06 | 0:34:09 | |
and there's sulky silence, sometimes we'll nod to each other and just say, | 0:34:09 | 0:34:14 | |
"Oh, yeah - tensegrity." | 0:34:14 | 0:34:15 | |
I'd be amazed if we actually split up. | 0:34:18 | 0:34:21 | |
We're like a band of brothers, I guess. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:24 | |
But even when a band has someone trying really hard to hold it | 0:34:29 | 0:34:32 | |
all together, it still doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work. | 0:34:32 | 0:34:35 | |
Sometimes, it just all becomes too much. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:38 | |
Especially when those familiar tensions between the lead singer | 0:34:38 | 0:34:41 | |
and guitarist become too much to bear. | 0:34:41 | 0:34:44 | |
# I'd like to drop my trousers to the world | 0:34:47 | 0:34:50 | |
# I am a man of means... # | 0:34:50 | 0:34:52 | |
'80s indie icons The Smiths had all of that going on. | 0:34:52 | 0:34:55 | |
As well as writing the music and playing guitar, | 0:34:55 | 0:34:58 | |
21-year-old Johnny Marr reluctantly assumed the role | 0:34:58 | 0:35:01 | |
of his band's liquid glue. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:03 | |
What would happen, they'd be playing, | 0:35:03 | 0:35:05 | |
Morrissey would be in the control room with me. | 0:35:05 | 0:35:07 | |
He'd be...singing along to himself, working out what he... | 0:35:07 | 0:35:10 | |
And he'll go, "No, Johnny, it's too fast | 0:35:10 | 0:35:12 | |
"or it's too slow or it's too high or it's too low." | 0:35:12 | 0:35:15 | |
You know, so Johnny would have to put the capo on | 0:35:15 | 0:35:17 | |
and work out the key to play in. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:19 | |
Andy would have to tune up his bass differently, or whatever. | 0:35:19 | 0:35:21 | |
Johnny kind of walked that line | 0:35:21 | 0:35:23 | |
between the studious side of Morrissey | 0:35:23 | 0:35:26 | |
and the lad's side of the rest of the band. | 0:35:26 | 0:35:29 | |
And he trod that line very well, I thought. | 0:35:29 | 0:35:32 | |
When I think about what most 21-year-olds are doing these days, | 0:35:32 | 0:35:36 | |
it's quite scary how much he was accomplishing, even then. | 0:35:36 | 0:35:40 | |
# I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour | 0:35:40 | 0:35:44 | |
# But heaven knows I'm miserable now... # | 0:35:44 | 0:35:47 | |
The swift success of The Smiths was pretty scary too. | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
But as the band became bigger, Marr became more miserable himself. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:54 | |
Well, when it came to managers, | 0:35:54 | 0:35:56 | |
I think we tried about three or four and they'd usually... | 0:35:56 | 0:36:00 | |
..either walk out or Morrissey would say that it wasn't working, | 0:36:01 | 0:36:06 | |
blah, blah, blah. | 0:36:06 | 0:36:07 | |
"So-and-so, he's got to go." We phone him, | 0:36:08 | 0:36:12 | |
"So-and-so's got to go." And I just got tired of it. | 0:36:12 | 0:36:15 | |
-INTERVIEWER: -And who was saying, "So-and-so's got to go"?' | 0:36:15 | 0:36:18 | |
So-and-so was saying it. | 0:36:18 | 0:36:19 | |
And so, more often than not, it was left to Johnny to do | 0:36:21 | 0:36:26 | |
all the phone calls and book a van, for instance. | 0:36:26 | 0:36:30 | |
It probably distracted from what he was supposed to be doing, | 0:36:30 | 0:36:33 | |
which was writing the songs and playing his guitar. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:37 | |
It definitely took its toll after a while. | 0:36:37 | 0:36:39 | |
And probably contributed to, you know, the demise of the band. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:43 | |
# Is it wrong to want to live on your own? | 0:36:45 | 0:36:49 | |
Things came to head in 1987, | 0:36:49 | 0:36:51 | |
during the filming of a video for the single Sheila Take A Bow. | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
Everyone turned up ready for the shoot in London, except Morrissey. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
Fancy that, eh? | 0:36:58 | 0:36:59 | |
The director and Johnny Marr went round | 0:37:02 | 0:37:04 | |
to where the elusive singer was staying. | 0:37:04 | 0:37:07 | |
We can hear that he's there. Like, you hear movement | 0:37:07 | 0:37:10 | |
behind the door, there's some sounds. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:13 | |
And now it's like 10 minutes banging, whatever. | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
We're like, trying to break down the door, even. | 0:37:16 | 0:37:18 | |
And then... | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
Then Johnny's just, like, had it. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:23 | |
And he stands at the door and he basically says, "That's it. | 0:37:23 | 0:37:27 | |
"If you don't come out of this door, the band is over. | 0:37:27 | 0:37:29 | |
"We can't continue to have a band if this is how you're going to behave. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:33 | |
"You have to appear, you have to show up. It's not just your band. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:36 | |
"If you don't come out of this door now, | 0:37:36 | 0:37:39 | |
"there will be no more Smiths." | 0:37:39 | 0:37:40 | |
We could not tell if he was behind that door, | 0:37:40 | 0:37:44 | |
laughing, like, thinking, "Hee-hee-hee! | 0:37:44 | 0:37:47 | |
"I got him. I'm breaking up. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:50 | |
"Like, this is where I want them." You know, laughing? | 0:37:50 | 0:37:53 | |
Or whether he was crying, and he was sad, | 0:37:53 | 0:37:57 | |
and he was depressed. | 0:37:57 | 0:37:58 | |
He was, like, broken-hearted that he couldn't get out that door. | 0:37:58 | 0:38:02 | |
I have no idea. I'll never know. | 0:38:02 | 0:38:05 | |
Marr kept his doubts to himself during recording of the 1987 album, | 0:38:05 | 0:38:10 | |
Strangeways, Here We Come. | 0:38:10 | 0:38:13 | |
I won't lie. I wasn't that aware. | 0:38:13 | 0:38:15 | |
I thought everything was going swimmingly. | 0:38:15 | 0:38:18 | |
But behind the scenes, obviously Johnny wasn't happy. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:21 | |
But he didn't really tell anybody. Or maybe he told Morrissey. | 0:38:21 | 0:38:24 | |
He didn't tell me. | 0:38:24 | 0:38:26 | |
The tensions within bands | 0:38:29 | 0:38:32 | |
are exacerbated by the fact that, | 0:38:32 | 0:38:34 | |
unique among social organisations, | 0:38:34 | 0:38:38 | |
they never talk about their problems. | 0:38:38 | 0:38:40 | |
Ever. They never verbalise their problems. | 0:38:40 | 0:38:43 | |
Nobody ever gets them a room and says, | 0:38:43 | 0:38:45 | |
"Do you know what's really irritating me about you? | 0:38:45 | 0:38:48 | |
"Can you do something about your behaviour?" | 0:38:48 | 0:38:50 | |
They never do it at all. | 0:38:50 | 0:38:52 | |
They just go and complain to somebody else. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:54 | |
With the album completed, The Smiths went to a restaurant | 0:38:55 | 0:38:58 | |
in London's Notting Hill for a band meal. | 0:38:58 | 0:39:00 | |
And then Johnny dropped the bombshell. And... | 0:39:03 | 0:39:07 | |
..I don't think anybody finished their fish and chips. | 0:39:08 | 0:39:12 | |
The colour went from everybody's face. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:16 | |
And that was that. | 0:39:16 | 0:39:18 | |
# Last night I dreamt... # | 0:39:21 | 0:39:24 | |
I didn't know what I was going to do. | 0:39:24 | 0:39:28 | |
No idea, but I thought, "It's all right." You know? | 0:39:28 | 0:39:33 | |
"Signing on is better than this." Really. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:35 | |
So The Smiths were no more and heaven knows, | 0:39:38 | 0:39:41 | |
we probably were a bit miserable back then, for a while. | 0:39:41 | 0:39:44 | |
But the legacy lives on, nowhere more obviously than | 0:39:44 | 0:39:46 | |
here in The Smiths Room at Salford Lad's Club. | 0:39:46 | 0:39:50 | |
Things took another turn for the worse in 1996 | 0:39:50 | 0:39:53 | |
when drummer Mike Joyce | 0:39:53 | 0:39:54 | |
took Morrissey and Marr to court over royalties. | 0:39:54 | 0:39:57 | |
But countless bands have fallen out about money. | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
New romantics Spandau Ballet, country rockers the Eagles, | 0:40:00 | 0:40:03 | |
gangster rappers NWA - money is always an issue with bands. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:08 | |
I've seen it with Jimi Hendrix Experience, | 0:40:14 | 0:40:17 | |
I saw it with the Stones. | 0:40:17 | 0:40:19 | |
And I've seen it even with the Who, to a certain extent, you know? | 0:40:19 | 0:40:24 | |
As soon as you become successful | 0:40:24 | 0:40:26 | |
and you have that first hit record, then people start | 0:40:26 | 0:40:29 | |
looking around and saying, "Why is he getting more money than I'm getting?" | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
"Why are they getting a better share of what I've contributed myself | 0:40:32 | 0:40:37 | |
"than I seem to have?" | 0:40:37 | 0:40:39 | |
And that's when you get problems. | 0:40:41 | 0:40:44 | |
And that's when the splits start. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
# Sweetness, sweetness | 0:40:48 | 0:40:50 | |
# I was only joking... # | 0:40:50 | 0:40:52 | |
In The Smiths' court case, | 0:40:52 | 0:40:53 | |
Mike Joyce won the right to extra royalties. | 0:40:53 | 0:40:56 | |
But Andy Rourke had settled out of court. | 0:40:56 | 0:40:59 | |
Horrible, horrible. I don't even like thinking about it. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:01 | |
Let alone talking about it. | 0:41:01 | 0:41:03 | |
I regret it, financially, | 0:41:04 | 0:41:06 | |
but on the other side, I don't regret it. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:10 | |
I don't think me and Johnny would still have a relationship, | 0:41:10 | 0:41:12 | |
for instance, if I had gone ahead with that. | 0:41:12 | 0:41:14 | |
No, I don't think I would change anything. | 0:41:14 | 0:41:18 | |
When Steven Adler was fired from Guns And Roses, | 0:41:18 | 0:41:21 | |
his bandmates tried to take away his future royalties. | 0:41:21 | 0:41:24 | |
You know what it's like to go to court | 0:41:24 | 0:41:27 | |
and see your best friend, who you grew up with, | 0:41:27 | 0:41:30 | |
and the other guys in your band, | 0:41:30 | 0:41:32 | |
and they're talking terrible things about you. | 0:41:32 | 0:41:34 | |
Which...I could say the same to them, which my lawyer did. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:40 | |
And it was just so painful. I wanted to die. | 0:41:40 | 0:41:43 | |
I would bring heroin with me to court. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:47 | |
At every chance I'd get, I'd go into the bathroom and smoke heroin. | 0:41:47 | 0:41:50 | |
This is why bands such as Coldplay | 0:41:59 | 0:42:01 | |
have divided their royalties equally. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:04 | |
Definitely, as much as anything, a founding principle of the band. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:10 | |
And yeah, I'm sure we drew on our group heroes, U2 and REM. | 0:42:10 | 0:42:16 | |
I think they had a similar model. | 0:42:16 | 0:42:18 | |
# Lights go out and... # | 0:42:18 | 0:42:20 | |
At some point, along the way, there was a band discussion. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:24 | |
It was acknowledged that Chris was doing more | 0:42:24 | 0:42:26 | |
than 25% of the songwriting, | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
so that was addressed. | 0:42:29 | 0:42:31 | |
But everything else has stayed split equally | 0:42:31 | 0:42:34 | |
and I think that's the way it'll stay till our dying day. | 0:42:34 | 0:42:38 | |
# Where I wanted to go... # | 0:42:38 | 0:42:40 | |
But it's not just money that members of a band | 0:42:46 | 0:42:48 | |
argue about after a break-up. | 0:42:48 | 0:42:50 | |
There are all kinds of other issues, | 0:42:50 | 0:42:52 | |
like ownership of the name, for example. | 0:42:52 | 0:42:53 | |
And then there's the back catalogue. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:55 | |
What happens when rival ex-members want to tour, doing the same songs? | 0:42:55 | 0:43:00 | |
Well, that's when things can get really messy. | 0:43:00 | 0:43:02 | |
# I've watched your face for a long time... # | 0:43:04 | 0:43:08 | |
The great thing about being human and your faith in humanity is trust. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:13 | |
And loyalty. What I've found is that there is no trust or loyalty. | 0:43:13 | 0:43:18 | |
'In 2011, New Order announced that they were going to perform | 0:43:19 | 0:43:23 | |
'and record again for the first time in five years, | 0:43:23 | 0:43:26 | |
'without their long-standing bassist, Peter Hook.' | 0:43:26 | 0:43:29 | |
We've been talking a lot about, you know, | 0:43:29 | 0:43:31 | |
bands splitting up in this programme. | 0:43:31 | 0:43:34 | |
We are in an enormously, uniquely interesting situation with you, | 0:43:34 | 0:43:38 | |
because you say New Order split up and they say - | 0:43:38 | 0:43:42 | |
or at least, those trading under the banner of New Order - | 0:43:42 | 0:43:45 | |
say that you left. | 0:43:45 | 0:43:47 | |
In all fairness, you just go, | 0:43:47 | 0:43:48 | |
"What does it matter whether you split or whether you left?" | 0:43:48 | 0:43:53 | |
If the band splits, each member retains | 0:43:53 | 0:43:56 | |
an equal right in the assets. | 0:43:56 | 0:43:58 | |
The good will. And the name. | 0:43:58 | 0:44:01 | |
Now, it's very important for them to carry on, because of what they | 0:44:01 | 0:44:04 | |
did to me when they reformed in 2011. | 0:44:04 | 0:44:07 | |
Their stance has to be that "he left". | 0:44:07 | 0:44:10 | |
We didn't leave. We split up. | 0:44:10 | 0:44:12 | |
You get locked out of your house, | 0:44:15 | 0:44:17 | |
your wife throws you something out the letterbox and goes, | 0:44:17 | 0:44:20 | |
"Piss off, Mark!" | 0:44:20 | 0:44:21 | |
-HE LAUGHS -You going to go, | 0:44:21 | 0:44:23 | |
"Oh, right, love! See you, then. Yeah, that's fine." | 0:44:23 | 0:44:26 | |
You're not, are you? You're going to want a fair settlement | 0:44:26 | 0:44:29 | |
for what you put into that relationship. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:32 | |
And I don't feel I've had a fair settlement. | 0:44:32 | 0:44:34 | |
People always say "Oh, well, you're synonymous with New Order. | 0:44:34 | 0:44:38 | |
"You always will be." And yet they're using the brand name | 0:44:38 | 0:44:42 | |
that I spent 30 years building up. | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
All of a sudden, I didn't have 25% | 0:44:44 | 0:44:46 | |
of New Order's good will or trademark. I had 1%. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:50 | |
All of a sudden, that's what they shoved through the letterbox to me. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:53 | |
And it's not fair. And that's what I'm fighting and I'm still fighting. | 0:44:53 | 0:44:57 | |
I'll fight until the day I die and then my son is on instructions | 0:44:57 | 0:45:00 | |
to fight on after that until the day he dies. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:02 | |
And then hopefully his son will fight on after that. | 0:45:02 | 0:45:04 | |
I'm not stopping. | 0:45:04 | 0:45:06 | |
# Maybe I've forgotten the name and the address... # | 0:45:06 | 0:45:12 | |
Band arguments like this can end in farce as well as tragedy. | 0:45:12 | 0:45:16 | |
# We don't need no education... # | 0:45:16 | 0:45:21 | |
Like when Roger Waters left Pink Floyd | 0:45:21 | 0:45:23 | |
and sued his ex-bandmates, not only over the band name, | 0:45:23 | 0:45:27 | |
but also their famous flying pig. | 0:45:27 | 0:45:29 | |
He said, "You can't use that. | 0:45:29 | 0:45:31 | |
"That's my idea, the pig. I'm not having you using it." | 0:45:31 | 0:45:34 | |
So they had to make sure that the pig | 0:45:34 | 0:45:36 | |
was demonstrably different from the pig that Roger Waters used. | 0:45:36 | 0:45:39 | |
So they actually contracted a new pig | 0:45:39 | 0:45:41 | |
with some very prominent genitalia on it | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
and that was deemed sufficient to differentiate it from the old pig. | 0:45:44 | 0:45:47 | |
It seems these days that every band you've ever heard of reforms. | 0:45:50 | 0:45:53 | |
Is it because they love each other so much | 0:45:53 | 0:45:56 | |
that they can't bear to be apart any longer? | 0:45:56 | 0:45:58 | |
Or is it the stadium gigs, the DVDs, | 0:45:58 | 0:46:00 | |
the merchandising, the new greatest hits album? | 0:46:00 | 0:46:03 | |
In other words, is it the cash? | 0:46:03 | 0:46:05 | |
# On a dark desert highway... # | 0:46:07 | 0:46:10 | |
After Californian band Eagles' rancorous split in 1980, | 0:46:10 | 0:46:14 | |
singer Glenn Fry said that hell would freeze over | 0:46:14 | 0:46:17 | |
before they reformed. | 0:46:17 | 0:46:19 | |
Guess what the 1994 reunion tour was called, then... | 0:46:19 | 0:46:22 | |
Everybody knew that the reason they were getting back together, | 0:46:23 | 0:46:27 | |
primarily, was that there were | 0:46:27 | 0:46:28 | |
hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:30 | |
And that then did seem | 0:46:30 | 0:46:34 | |
to make it permissible for all sorts of acts that had hated each other | 0:46:34 | 0:46:39 | |
and come to blows to reunite very lucratively. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:44 | |
Some bands reunite successfully. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:51 | |
The Police's tour made them 2007's highest-paid musicians, | 0:46:51 | 0:46:55 | |
nearly 30 years after their first hit. | 0:46:55 | 0:46:58 | |
I can't say that | 0:46:58 | 0:46:59 | |
it's joyous to get back together. | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
It's not like that, you know? We are three smart arses back together. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:05 | |
They're going to play well | 0:47:05 | 0:47:07 | |
and they're going to make the most of it, which is what we did. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:11 | |
It was exhilarating. | 0:47:11 | 0:47:12 | |
Others hope that a reunion will one day happen. | 0:47:15 | 0:47:19 | |
Everywhere in the world that I go, | 0:47:19 | 0:47:21 | |
not one or two, | 0:47:21 | 0:47:24 | |
hundreds of people come up to me - | 0:47:24 | 0:47:26 | |
"When are you doing the reunion? | 0:47:26 | 0:47:27 | |
"You've got to do a reunion. The band was never the same when you left." | 0:47:27 | 0:47:31 | |
If any of us could go back and do again what we did | 0:47:35 | 0:47:38 | |
when we were 25 and get paid a fortune for it | 0:47:38 | 0:47:42 | |
and enjoy waves of approbation like you can't imagine, we would do it! | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
'Some reunions seem likely.' | 0:47:49 | 0:47:52 | |
Once they've had a chance to move on a bit, I think Noel and Liam | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
are going to look at each other one day and say, "Shall we do it again?" | 0:47:55 | 0:47:57 | |
You can probably put some money on that. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:03 | |
MUSIC: Dancing Queen by Abba | 0:48:03 | 0:48:08 | |
But even a reported offer of 1 billion | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
has failed to persuade Abba out of retirement. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:13 | |
They are never going to do it, for the simple reason that they... | 0:48:14 | 0:48:17 | |
(A) They don't need the money and | 0:48:17 | 0:48:19 | |
(B) They are not interested in being Abba again. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:22 | |
# You can dance, you can jive... # | 0:48:22 | 0:48:27 | |
Sometimes it seems amazing that bands | 0:48:28 | 0:48:30 | |
manage to stay together at all. | 0:48:30 | 0:48:32 | |
If it's not problems with money, it's the sex, it's the lead singer, | 0:48:32 | 0:48:35 | |
it's spending endless hours in rehearsal rooms like this. | 0:48:35 | 0:48:39 | |
It's the drugs, it's the fame, it's the endless touring. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:42 | |
But with the money to be made, perhaps it's not surprising | 0:48:42 | 0:48:45 | |
that the business started to create its own bands. | 0:48:45 | 0:48:48 | |
Particularly in '90s Britain. | 0:48:48 | 0:48:50 | |
This was the era of New Labour and focus groups. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:53 | |
And manufactured bands really caught the zeitgeist. | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
This is BBC Four, so of course, | 0:48:56 | 0:48:58 | |
we can confidently use words like zeitgeist. | 0:48:58 | 0:49:01 | |
# Yo, tell you what I want, what I really, really want | 0:49:01 | 0:49:04 | |
# So tell me what you want, what you really, really want... # | 0:49:04 | 0:49:06 | |
The appeal of those early manufactured bands in the '90s | 0:49:06 | 0:49:08 | |
was that they were basically four or five young kids brought together. | 0:49:08 | 0:49:12 | |
They were easy to manage because you didn't have prima donnas | 0:49:12 | 0:49:15 | |
wrestling for control of the group | 0:49:15 | 0:49:17 | |
as you would have in a non-manufactured band. | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
'At least that's what the founders of Spice Girls and Take That hoped.' | 0:49:22 | 0:49:26 | |
So what was your thoughts behind getting Take That together, | 0:49:26 | 0:49:30 | |
right back at the beginning? | 0:49:30 | 0:49:31 | |
I was working with one of the music acts on a Saturday morning TV show | 0:49:31 | 0:49:36 | |
and New Kids On The Block were on, | 0:49:36 | 0:49:38 | |
and they were obnoxious. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:39 | |
Really hard work, wouldn't really deal with the crew | 0:49:39 | 0:49:43 | |
in a very friendly way and I just thought... | 0:49:43 | 0:49:46 | |
You know, I could find similar lads in Manchester | 0:49:46 | 0:49:51 | |
and put them into a band. | 0:49:51 | 0:49:53 | |
And they'd be massive. | 0:49:53 | 0:49:55 | |
You know, they'd be far more professional, easy-going. | 0:49:55 | 0:49:58 | |
-# Ice! -Could never be as cold as you... # | 0:49:58 | 0:50:02 | |
I've moved to another guitar now | 0:50:05 | 0:50:07 | |
to showcase my acoustic and sensitive balladry side. | 0:50:07 | 0:50:10 | |
But whatever those bands were doing, | 0:50:10 | 0:50:12 | |
they were certainly doing something right. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:14 | |
Because, as we all remember, | 0:50:14 | 0:50:15 | |
they became incredibly successful at the time. | 0:50:15 | 0:50:18 | |
But neither line-up proved as resilient | 0:50:18 | 0:50:20 | |
as their creators were hoping for. | 0:50:20 | 0:50:22 | |
And perhaps if you don't have a shared history, | 0:50:22 | 0:50:25 | |
if you don't have long-standing friendships and relationships, | 0:50:25 | 0:50:28 | |
some kind of fracture is almost inevitable. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:30 | |
Which sounds a kind of minor keynote, doesn't it? | 0:50:30 | 0:50:33 | |
HE STRUMS A MINOR CHORD | 0:50:33 | 0:50:35 | |
# I'm giving you everything | 0:50:35 | 0:50:38 | |
# All that joy can bring... # | 0:50:38 | 0:50:41 | |
At the beginning, it's great. | 0:50:41 | 0:50:43 | |
Everyone's got one aim and that is to be successful. | 0:50:43 | 0:50:46 | |
Everyone's getting on with each other cos they have to | 0:50:46 | 0:50:49 | |
and everyone's aiming to get to the top of the chart. | 0:50:49 | 0:50:52 | |
Once you're at the top of the charts, | 0:50:52 | 0:50:55 | |
that's when all of the problems set in. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:58 | |
GIRLS SCREAMING HYSTERICALLY | 0:50:58 | 0:51:01 | |
Turns out members of manufactured bands feel the pull | 0:51:01 | 0:51:04 | |
of a solo career too. | 0:51:04 | 0:51:06 | |
Robbie Williams left Take That in 1995, | 0:51:06 | 0:51:09 | |
on the eve of their first world tour. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:11 | |
Robbie left Take That because he was a bit of a boy-band maverick. | 0:51:13 | 0:51:17 | |
When he became friends with Liam Gallagher | 0:51:17 | 0:51:19 | |
and he was allowed to dance on stage with Oasis at Glastonbury, | 0:51:19 | 0:51:23 | |
it was the tipping point for him. | 0:51:23 | 0:51:25 | |
He suddenly looked out there and saw that he didn't actually have | 0:51:25 | 0:51:29 | |
to sing Back For Good any more, if he didn't want to. | 0:51:29 | 0:51:32 | |
# I just want you back for good | 0:51:32 | 0:51:34 | |
# Want you back, want you back | 0:51:34 | 0:51:37 | |
# Want you back for good... # | 0:51:37 | 0:51:40 | |
Take That disbanded a year later. | 0:51:40 | 0:51:43 | |
Unfortunately, the rumours are true. | 0:51:43 | 0:51:45 | |
And from today...is no more. | 0:51:45 | 0:51:49 | |
# The race is on to get out of the bottom... # | 0:51:49 | 0:51:53 | |
The Spice Girls' break-up three years later in 1998 | 0:51:53 | 0:51:56 | |
was equally dramatic. | 0:51:56 | 0:51:57 | |
Geri Halliwell, otherwise known as Ginger Spice, | 0:52:00 | 0:52:03 | |
has announced she's left the Spice Girls. | 0:52:03 | 0:52:05 | |
Ginger Spice, de facto head Spice Girl and originator | 0:52:05 | 0:52:09 | |
of Girl Power, walked out on the eve of their first global tour. | 0:52:09 | 0:52:13 | |
I guess Geri was always the loose cannon, if you like, | 0:52:13 | 0:52:16 | |
amongst the five of them. | 0:52:16 | 0:52:18 | |
She could be quite domineering, | 0:52:18 | 0:52:19 | |
she could be quite strident | 0:52:19 | 0:52:22 | |
when she was trying to get her ideas... | 0:52:22 | 0:52:25 | |
Push them through. | 0:52:25 | 0:52:26 | |
Like Robbie, Geri had her eye on a solo career | 0:52:26 | 0:52:29 | |
and her own reasons for avoiding lots of live performing. | 0:52:29 | 0:52:33 | |
She was least confident in that situation of getting her own way. | 0:52:33 | 0:52:38 | |
It was a big, long tour. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:39 | |
She was never trained as a dancer or as a singer. | 0:52:39 | 0:52:42 | |
It was her area of least expertise. | 0:52:42 | 0:52:44 | |
The advantage, I suppose, of a manufactured band | 0:52:46 | 0:52:48 | |
is that the public can have more of an investment | 0:52:48 | 0:52:51 | |
in the brand and the line-up. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:52 | |
ALL: Girl Power! Whoo! | 0:52:52 | 0:52:55 | |
Take That reinvented their brand | 0:52:55 | 0:52:57 | |
when they reformed in 2006 without Robbie. | 0:52:57 | 0:53:00 | |
# Whoa! Cos I-I-I... # | 0:53:00 | 0:53:05 | |
I went to the press conference where Take That announced | 0:53:05 | 0:53:08 | |
that they were coming back. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:09 | |
Everyone was thinking, you know, | 0:53:09 | 0:53:10 | |
"How tragic - four members of a defunct boy band come back | 0:53:10 | 0:53:14 | |
"because their solos careers aren't doing so well." | 0:53:14 | 0:53:17 | |
But they sent themselves up at the press conference. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:19 | |
The whole thing was just the four of them bantering with each other | 0:53:19 | 0:53:25 | |
and showing that they were actually pretty good eggs. | 0:53:25 | 0:53:27 | |
And all the journalists left that press conference | 0:53:27 | 0:53:29 | |
really on Take That's side. | 0:53:29 | 0:53:31 | |
Well, we'd just like to say thank you very much to everyone | 0:53:31 | 0:53:34 | |
for giving us the last 10 years off. | 0:53:34 | 0:53:36 | |
But unfortunately, the rumours are true... | 0:53:36 | 0:53:39 | |
Take That are going back on tour. | 0:53:39 | 0:53:41 | |
The comeback was complete in 2010, when Robbie rejoined | 0:53:41 | 0:53:45 | |
for a chart-topping album and record-breaking tour. | 0:53:45 | 0:53:49 | |
# We will meet you where the lights are | 0:53:49 | 0:53:54 | |
# The defenders of the faith... # | 0:53:54 | 0:53:58 | |
That created the rekindling of the relationship. | 0:53:58 | 0:54:03 | |
But by that time, they'd already earned a big fan base | 0:54:03 | 0:54:08 | |
who were now becoming older. | 0:54:08 | 0:54:11 | |
And they're now taking their daughters to see the band. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
And the band have retained this "cheeky chappie" thing. | 0:54:15 | 0:54:19 | |
So they've got a new generation of fans. | 0:54:19 | 0:54:21 | |
In the last few minutes, the Spice Girls have announced | 0:54:25 | 0:54:27 | |
that they are reforming for a world tour. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:29 | |
# Let's make the headlines loud and true... # | 0:54:29 | 0:54:34 | |
The Spice Girls' comeback was less successful. | 0:54:34 | 0:54:37 | |
Their reunion single was called Friendship Never Ends, | 0:54:37 | 0:54:41 | |
but the world tour in 2008 folded early. | 0:54:41 | 0:54:45 | |
I mean, it sort of gave the lie to the philosophy of "girl power," | 0:54:45 | 0:54:49 | |
the idea that friendship never ends. | 0:54:49 | 0:54:51 | |
Now it had ended. | 0:54:51 | 0:54:53 | |
# ..loud tonight... # | 0:54:54 | 0:54:56 | |
Take That are still soldiering on as a three-piece after | 0:54:58 | 0:55:01 | |
Jason Orange left the band in 2014. | 0:55:01 | 0:55:04 | |
But how much longevity can a manufactured band have? | 0:55:04 | 0:55:08 | |
Bands that survive is definitely something that captures | 0:55:08 | 0:55:10 | |
the public's imagination. | 0:55:10 | 0:55:13 | |
And Take That have survived. | 0:55:13 | 0:55:15 | |
This new thing, when I saw the three of them dancing, my heart sank. | 0:55:15 | 0:55:19 | |
I think it's good to know when you're past your sell-by date. | 0:55:19 | 0:55:22 | |
I would say - sorry, Take That - they are fast approaching it. | 0:55:22 | 0:55:27 | |
Now, we don't want to finish this film on a downer, | 0:55:34 | 0:55:36 | |
all doom and gloom. | 0:55:36 | 0:55:38 | |
It is possible to have all the fun and all the success | 0:55:38 | 0:55:41 | |
and then just part when you've had enough as friends. | 0:55:41 | 0:55:43 | |
Just ask REM. | 0:55:43 | 0:55:45 | |
# Oh, life is bigger... # | 0:55:47 | 0:55:52 | |
They're the only band that I know of that broke up | 0:55:52 | 0:55:56 | |
with such grace, dignity and style | 0:55:56 | 0:55:59 | |
that no-one will probably ever do that again. | 0:55:59 | 0:56:02 | |
We took a while to figure out that | 0:56:02 | 0:56:04 | |
we wanted to call it a day. Disband. | 0:56:04 | 0:56:07 | |
Why? Because you could go on, | 0:56:07 | 0:56:09 | |
you could sort of separate for a bit, | 0:56:09 | 0:56:10 | |
you could come back for a bit. | 0:56:10 | 0:56:12 | |
The Rolling Stones do it, other bands do it. | 0:56:12 | 0:56:14 | |
Because it was an opportunity for us | 0:56:14 | 0:56:16 | |
to walk away on our own terms. | 0:56:16 | 0:56:18 | |
Which is something that, as far as I know, very few bands, certainly that | 0:56:18 | 0:56:22 | |
have been around for any length of time have had the opportunity to do. | 0:56:22 | 0:56:25 | |
There are no external forces making us do this. We have no problems. | 0:56:25 | 0:56:28 | |
We can walk away as friends and feel like we've accomplished everything | 0:56:28 | 0:56:32 | |
we wanted to accomplish. | 0:56:32 | 0:56:33 | |
I'd be absolutely shocked if they ever got back together again | 0:56:35 | 0:56:38 | |
and did a "reunion tour" for the money. | 0:56:38 | 0:56:41 | |
Because they're just not about money. | 0:56:41 | 0:56:43 | |
You know, I miss them when I hear them on the radio. | 0:56:43 | 0:56:46 | |
But, at the end of the day, I think it's good to leave | 0:56:46 | 0:56:48 | |
when you're on top. | 0:56:48 | 0:56:50 | |
APPLAUSE AND CHEERING | 0:56:53 | 0:56:56 | |
# Mama | 0:57:00 | 0:57:02 | |
# I just killed a cat, you know? # | 0:57:02 | 0:57:06 | |
So. Not everyone can be this good, clearly. | 0:57:06 | 0:57:08 | |
But what do you have to do if you want to survive in a band? | 0:57:08 | 0:57:12 | |
In the olden days, we'd have said if you want to keep on trucking | 0:57:12 | 0:57:15 | |
whilst others fall by the wayside. | 0:57:15 | 0:57:18 | |
Well, look on and learn, One Direction, | 0:57:18 | 0:57:20 | |
as you travel to your next gig in your separate limos. | 0:57:20 | 0:57:23 | |
Especially now it's only four separate limos. | 0:57:23 | 0:57:26 | |
Any advice I could give to any band is really | 0:57:28 | 0:57:31 | |
the basic advice of don't do drugs. | 0:57:31 | 0:57:35 | |
It's really a waste of time, | 0:57:35 | 0:57:37 | |
it doesn't make you a better performer. | 0:57:37 | 0:57:39 | |
You think it does, but it doesn't. | 0:57:39 | 0:57:42 | |
# Said her name was Georgia Rose... # | 0:57:42 | 0:57:44 | |
Get professional counselling. | 0:57:44 | 0:57:46 | |
That's one of the things I should have done with Take That. | 0:57:46 | 0:57:49 | |
If they don't get counselling, they'll start doing it in interviews. | 0:57:49 | 0:57:52 | |
Well, looking back over the whole thing, the whole experience, | 0:57:53 | 0:57:56 | |
would I do anything different? | 0:57:56 | 0:57:58 | |
I think I'd replace the drums and bass. | 0:57:58 | 0:58:01 | |
Or, to keep it really SIMPLE, | 0:58:06 | 0:58:08 | |
here's the advice that Jim Kerr gave to Chris Martin of Coldplay. | 0:58:08 | 0:58:12 | |
I was thinking they're already the biggest band on the planet | 0:58:12 | 0:58:15 | |
and I thought... | 0:58:15 | 0:58:16 | |
"Don't split up." | 0:58:18 | 0:58:19 | |
And...there will be millions of people watching this, saying, | 0:58:19 | 0:58:23 | |
"Why did you tell them that?" | 0:58:23 | 0:58:24 | |
That's... That's... I'm speaking from the heart. | 0:58:24 | 0:58:28 |