Biggest Band Break Ups and Make Ups


Biggest Band Break Ups and Make Ups

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This programme contains some strong language.

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Being in a successful band can seem like a dream come true.

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Our dream was to become big rock stars,

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make out with lots of girls,

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and, of course, do lots of drugs.

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And our dream came true.

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But the vast majority of bands break up badly.

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Johnny dropped the bombshell.

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The colour went from everybody's face.

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And that was that.

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The truth is that band life can easily become a nightmare.

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It was getting a little bit crabby and bitchy, and...

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I suppose we were growing apart, really.

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The chemistry that actually makes great music, and forms great bands,

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is inevitably the chemistry that destroys them.

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The word "dysfunctional" and "band" should be synonymous.

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So I'm going to show you what life in a great band is really like.

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Conflicts and confrontations can erupt.

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MUFFLED VOICES

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"I hate him, I love him, I hate him." It got more confused.

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There are jealousies and resentments...

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They very quickly see that certain members are getting more attention...

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"Dear Robbie, you are best in show business."

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..more sex, and are getting more money.

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..and long-standing relationships that can go sour.

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We don't want to discuss our private life any more.

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At least not I.

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And we'll discover the secrets of bands

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who successfully stay the course.

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We're like a band of brothers, I guess.

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We have been doing this so long now, it is no longer a career,

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it is actually what you do with your life.

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Just about everyone has dreamt of being in a band at some point.

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Some of us have been doing it since our teens with mixed results.

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I've been in loads of brilliant bands since I was a kid

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and yet remain mystifyingly unappreciated by the general public.

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Well, it's your loss.

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But at the centre of every band lies this thing called creative tension.

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Can this be a force for good?

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Well, yes, it can, and lead to the production of great music,

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but it can also be a very destructive thing.

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So, what are these destructive forces that blow a band apart

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and what are the secrets of staying together?

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# Roxanne, you don't have to put on the red light... #

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Every band dreams of global success like this.

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But be careful what you wish for.

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# Roxanne... #

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Being seriously famous is where the problems start,

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as many band members will tell you.

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There should be a band prenup.

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It should be called the Hooky Prenup that you all sign

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when you're all big mates at the start,

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of how you are going to handle it when it all falls apart.

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The splits we have had within our band,

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when I look back on it now,

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probably two weeks' holiday in Cuba would have solved the problem.

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Somebody comes back with a fresh perspective. But...

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But when you get someone in a stranglehold in a rehearsal room,

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that's...you know, unlikely.

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# Every little thing she does is magic... #

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The Police are one of many super-successful bands

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who have had to deal with these pressures.

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Between 1977 and 1983,

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the trio became the biggest band in the world,

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eventually selling nearly 25 million records in the USA alone.

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Those early days

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of the wonderful camaraderie that you got,

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three mates in the back of a van travelling across Oklahoma

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to try and make it to some miserable den

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to do a gig to 14 people, those days have gone.

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Now you are really famous.

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Now everyone, Hollywood celebrities, want to come to your gigs.

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And you actually grow more estranged.

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You start going in separate cars. You find it harder.

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Suddenly, you've got to get back in the studio

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and be the three mates again

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and get that camaraderie and looseness back to where you were.

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The whole world is standing

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at the back door of the studio, waiting for it.

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"Jesus. This is intense."

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We are like this all the time.

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-This what you get.

-We'll be like this tomorrow.

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At the moment, I want to have a fight.

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-You do?

-Better television than your questions, I promise you.

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-OK.

-I'll tell you what. Shall we film me whupping Sting?

-Yes.

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-That would be good, wouldn't it?

-That would be great.

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Oh, dear.

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'There are not very many entirely happy bands, I suppose.'

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Whether a band survives those pressures or not

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depends entirely on what kind of people they are.

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How they treat each other.

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How their internal chemistry and dynamics work.

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It's the conflict that creates that very creative spark.

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I don't think you can have three or four mellow guys

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becoming a great band.

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You don't want to be too agreeable.

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In our band, we were all fighting for that place in the sun.

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And fight they did. A lot.

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Most memorably here at New York's Shea Stadium in 1983.

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Yes, I saw that happen. I was on the stage when it happened.

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They were rolling around, having a mock fight.

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And the mock fight got a bit serious

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and Sting wound up with a broken rib.

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There are quite big boys, both Stewart and Sting.

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I wouldn't want to get in a punch-up with them myself, I can tell you.

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All bands are at each other's throats sometimes.

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That's rock and roll.

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But when all the members are creative types like in The Police,

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it can cause all kinds of trouble.

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Certain things sort of crystallise. In our case, it was Sting.

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Because I thought I was writing some really good songs.

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But he wouldn't sing them.

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I thought some of my songs were better than his.

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It becomes a sort of failed democracy.

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-The band was not the happiest band?

-No.

-Why was that?

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Well, we all cared passionately about the music we were playing.

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We were all very strong personalities

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and I wanted to run the show, but we had a fight.

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-Literally...

-A physical fight?

-Fisticuffs in-between encores.

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LAUGHTER

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I think there were always tussles in The Police

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about which record should be the single.

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So there were always disagreements on that score.

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Sting usually got his way.

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He knew a hit when he heard it.

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# Every breath you take... #

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You just take a look at any of them -

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Rod Stewart, Mick Jagger, any of those star frontmen -

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they have a ruthless quality

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and that's how they survive.

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The cliche about personal and musical differences

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breaking up bands is a cliche because it is true.

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In 1984, Sting chose a solo career

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where he had complete creative control.

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# If you need somebody call my name... #

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'The logical thing would be

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'to stay in The Police because we were'

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the most successful band.

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As we say, we sold 45 million records.

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Why on earth would you leave that situation?

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Except my instinct told me to start again.

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# Get up and throw away the key... #

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What we should've done if Sting wanted to go and do a solo record

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was, "Go and do it, man, but let's come back together

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"and do the real thing in two years' time."

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Take a couple of years' break, which people do now.

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They take years. We were, like, we were still young and on fire,

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we had the world in the palm of our hand.

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We could have gone on for a long time.

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But we got off and let U2 take over basically.

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For those not abstemious like me,

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drink and drugs have been the fuel of the band lifestyle.

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Many take their highs on the road just to keep going.

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For others, it's just for kicks, isn't it? It's just a high.

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Drink and drugs - it's always been rock and roll.

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Peanut? Sweet chilli.

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I mean, it started with alcohol, then it went to pep pills.

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Then it went to marijuana,

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then it went to LSD, then it went to cocaine.

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Then it went to heroin.

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Heroin was the killer.

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MUSIC: Voodoo Child by Jimi Hendrix Experience

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Keith Richards once said a really,

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to me, seemingly so realistic explanation

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of why he started to take hard drugs -

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he's touring every single day,

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he's getting a huge buzz off the crowd,

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every single day, his best friends are down the hall,

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it's all amazing, and then it just stops.

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You're supposed to go back into real life.

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I think that - you can see why they have problems.

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I think the problem with drugs in rock and roll

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is you don't hear many stories where people are,

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"Yeah, yeah, I started taking drugs.

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"You know what? It ended fantastically.

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"I was much more creative, I had a wonderful marriage, my kids love me."

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You know, it's exactly the opposite.

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MUSIC: Welcome To The Jungle by Guns N' Roses

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One of the many great bands pulled apart by drink and drugs

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were '80s LA mega-rockers Guns N' Roses.

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# Welcome to the jungle

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# We've got fun and games

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# We've got everything you want

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# Honey, we know the names

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# We are the people that can find... #

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The first night

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on the Motley Crue tour.

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We'd just gone on stage and Tommy Lee said,

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"Come here, Stevie, I want to show you something."

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He takes me into one of those rooms, those big rooms,

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and there was six-foot tables, with the legs that fold under.

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There was two lines of coke,

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the whole length of the table.

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He said, "You start there, I start here." We met in the middle.

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There was couches behind us, and we, both of us...

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MUSIC: Paradise City by Guns N' Roses

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So their 1987 album title Appetite for Destruction

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was a bit to close to the truth.

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You know, we're just five guys that drink a lot.

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We have fun together.

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But it sold more than 28 million copies worldwide -

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the USA's best-selling debut album of all time.

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# Take me down to the paradise city

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# Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty

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# Oh, won't you please take me home... ? #

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Guns N' Roses reinvented the idea of rock and roll debauchery

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at a time when its cache had dwindled a little bit.

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It's amazing that the core line-up lasted as long as it did.

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I don't think there was anything

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that could have kept the band together.

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It was on the path it was on.

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At their peak - if that's the right word -

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all four players in Guns N' Roses were overdoing it

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on drink, drugs or both.

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Adler was fired in 1990.

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The band said his drug use was affecting his drumming.

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He took the news badly.

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I tried to kill myself a few times.

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It didn't work.

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There was two separate occasions I took 100 Valiums,

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I drunk a big bottle of Jagermeister

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and shot up three forks of grandma heroin.

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Had the best sleep I ever had in my life.

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Somehow, Adler survived his appetite for self-destruction.

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I tried to cut my wrist, I have some nice scars right there,

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if you want to zoom in on it.

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Not very attractive.

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I got this and this

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from shooting cocaine and missing.

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So...I've got scars head to toe.

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I broke my chin.

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I mean, shattered my chin.

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Broke my nose a few times.

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I'm surprised I'm alive.

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Happy relationships are one of the keys to keeping a band together.

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Maybe you've been friends for a very long time.

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Perhaps you're in love. Even better if you're married.

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Perhaps you've lived your whole lives together

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having been related by birth.

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Those have got to be the firm foundations

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which ensure lasting success, haven't they?

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Well, possibly, until it becomes a matter of...

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"Actually, I know we've always been mates, but I hate you."

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"Actually, I'm not in love with you any more.

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"In fact, actually, why don't we get divorced?"

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"Actually, I know you're my brother, but I've always resented you."

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Well, that's when things get really tricky.

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Being in a band with your sibling can be a disaster,

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especially if you're a Gallagher.

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They had a punch-up

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the very first interview they did with some guy from NME.

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Before anyone knew who they were, it got them their first press.

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MUSIC: Live Forever by Oasis

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So the surprise isn't that Oasis split up,

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but that they managed to stay together for as long as they did.

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We all wanted it to last forever.

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I certainly did, do you know what I mean?

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But I was always aware that when it came to it,

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that one of us would eventually...

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..you know, say,

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"Eff you and you and you and you and you."

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It just happened to me. It could well have been Liam.

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# I live my life in the city

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# There's no easy way out... #

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The warring brothers, the battling brothers.

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That was always the Oasis story, wasn't it?

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In the end, that's what finished the group off as well.

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Noel left in 2009 when Liam threatened him with a guitar

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and threw - wait for it -

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a plum.

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Times to consider the role of fruit in history.

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Pride of place - what with Adam and Eve, Isaac Newton

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and Steve Jobs - belongs, of course, to the apple.

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But it turns out the plum has had a significant impact

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on modern music.

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# I'm a rock and roll star... #

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# I'm just a poor boy

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# Though my story's seldom told... #

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'60s duo Simon and Garfunkel had been friends since the age of 12,

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but even that couldn't keep them together.

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Why did you break up?

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People said that you were getting fed up with the sight of each other.

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Was it just too much of each other at that time?

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I think Paul knows the answer. I was never sure myself.

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Simon, who wrote all the songs,

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seems to have felt overshadowed by Art Garfunkel's angelic voice.

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He admired Bob Dylan, who had blazed a trail in the '60s

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for the solo singer-songwriter.

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Paul Simon was very torn.

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He really, I think, wanted to be a solo star,

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but he knew Artie's voice gave him something

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that nothing else gave him -

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a kind of gloss, a kind of romance, a sweetness.

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# She once was a true love of mine... #

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Annie Nightingale famously asked him

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this question on camera in an interview -

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"Do you feel it harder now to write songs

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"now that you're no longer working with Garfunkel?"

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Well, we weren't a writing partnership.

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We didn't write together.

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It was always your song, his song, your song, his song?

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No, he never. He didn't write any.

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He didn't write any. I don't mean...

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I feel funny. He didn't write any of the songs.

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I wrote all of the Simon And Garfunkel songs.

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God, he was cross.

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Boy, he was cross.

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A 1984 reunion album, eventually called Hearts And Bones,

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did not end well.

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Do you think the rest from each other has done you good in the end?

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-Yeah.

-Oh, sure.

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Do you think you might stay together, then?

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Eh...for a bit.

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-LAUGHING:

-Yeah.

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From what I understand,

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one of the things that Art Garfunkel used to do

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when he was very angry at Paul

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was he would disappear.

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What seemed to be common knowledge

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was that he said he was going to go for a walk

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and he didn't come back for days.

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It turned out, apparently,

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that he was walking between two towns in South America.

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Um, and...

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Paul blew a gasket and he was fired.

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There was a suggestion that when he released Hearts And Bones

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he took your voice off the album

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-in the British press. Is that true?

-Mm-hmm.

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# If you change your mind

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-# Take a chance...

-I'm the first in line... #

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Band life is a bit like a marriage,

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so what happens when actual marriages

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between band mates fall apart?

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ABBA contained two couples -

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Bjorn and Agnetha, Anni-Frid and Benny.

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They conquered the charts in the '70s

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and have sold over 350 million records.

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# If you're all alone

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# When the pretty birds have flown... #

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The band managed to survive Bjorn and Agnetha's separation in 1980.

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We don't want to discuss our private lives, you know?

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We don't want to discuss it any more.

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At least not I.

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There's no question. It's working really well.

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The divorce was because we couldn't live together. That's all.

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Heartbreak can, of course, lead to great music.

0:17:380:17:40

Bjorn channelled his grief into the classic song Winner Takes It All.

0:17:400:17:45

He'd been at home

0:17:450:17:47

with a bottle of whisky by his side,

0:17:470:17:49

which he more or less emptied as he wrote these lyrics.

0:17:490:17:52

It took maybe an hour for him to write those lyrics.

0:17:520:17:58

It turned out to be a masterpiece.

0:17:580:17:59

# I don't wanna talk

0:17:590:18:01

# About things we've gone through... #

0:18:030:18:06

Bjorn brought the lyrics to the studio,

0:18:070:18:09

showed them to Agnetha, who read them through

0:18:090:18:13

and actually, she was so moved, she started crying in the studio.

0:18:130:18:17

But there were no winners

0:18:170:18:19

when Benny and Frida divorced the following year.

0:18:190:18:21

It was the beginning of the end for Abba.

0:18:210:18:24

The papers recently have been full of stories that you are

0:18:240:18:26

going to split eventually.

0:18:260:18:28

-We're not.

-You're not?

0:18:280:18:31

It would be more of a feeling, I think, because when we were

0:18:310:18:35

recording an album, we would feel that it's not fun any more.

0:18:350:18:38

We haven't got anything more to give.

0:18:380:18:41

And that would be the time to split.

0:18:410:18:43

-We should have done that a long time ago, then.

-I know.

0:18:430:18:46

Abba never formally split up - they never stood on a balcony

0:18:480:18:51

and said, "Goodbye, everyone. This is the end of the Abba story.

0:18:510:18:55

I think that's why they're still so fascinated with them.

0:18:550:18:58

# To me. #

0:18:580:19:01

CHEERING

0:19:010:19:04

'70s Californian outfit Fleetwood Mac also contained

0:19:090:19:12

two married couples, but not for long.

0:19:120:19:15

# Don't stop thinking about tomorrow

0:19:150:19:19

# Don't stop... #

0:19:190:19:20

Things were happening in lives, you know.

0:19:200:19:23

People..."Fuck you, screw you.

0:19:230:19:25

"Well, OK, I'll screw you..."

0:19:250:19:28

The only ones who didn't have an affair were me and Mick.

0:19:280:19:31

HE CHUCKLES

0:19:310:19:33

Both marriages collapsed and they wrote songs about each other.

0:19:330:19:37

A lot of the Rumours album was

0:19:370:19:39

actually about the disintegration of both relationships

0:19:390:19:42

and the rather remarkable decision of the band

0:19:420:19:46

to carry on regardless.

0:19:460:19:48

Fleetwood Mac's 1976 album is like group therapy in song form.

0:19:480:19:53

And it sold an extraordinary 40 million copies.

0:19:530:19:56

Lindsey Buckingham penned Go Your Own Way to Stevie Nicks,

0:19:580:20:01

including the sensitive line...

0:20:010:20:03

# Loving you isn't the right thing to do

0:20:030:20:08

# You can go your own way... #

0:20:110:20:14

Stevie was very angry at Lindsey and she retaliated

0:20:140:20:20

with lyrics of her own.

0:20:200:20:22

But Stevie was never a real negative person,

0:20:220:20:26

so she would turn it into something that was a little more positive

0:20:260:20:29

and a little more hopeful.

0:20:290:20:31

# Now here you go again

0:20:330:20:36

# You say you want your freedom

0:20:360:20:40

# Well, who am I to keep you down? #

0:20:400:20:46

There were times when I thought

0:20:460:20:49

"This is too much for me."

0:20:490:20:50

But, you know, sit me in a room

0:20:500:20:53

of five crying people and...

0:20:530:20:56

..I'm a soft touch, you know.

0:20:570:20:59

It's like, you know, I've always said I'd never be the one,

0:20:590:21:02

I'd never be the one to break up Fleetwood Mac.

0:21:020:21:04

Somebody else can do that.

0:21:040:21:06

I think that it was because of that honesty

0:21:070:21:11

that their success grew exponentially.

0:21:110:21:16

Because people could relate to it.

0:21:160:21:19

# When the rain washes you clean you'll know... #

0:21:190:21:23

Drummer Mick Fleetwood somehow managed to hold the band together,

0:21:260:21:29

despite his wife sleeping with his best friend,

0:21:290:21:32

band guitarist Bob Weston.

0:21:320:21:34

And there are still out there playing, you know,

0:21:360:21:40

because they are, you know, married to the mob, you know?

0:21:400:21:45

That's forevermore. That's what they are.

0:21:450:21:48

# Thunder only happens... #

0:21:480:21:50

When creative tension is good, it can be very good indeed.

0:21:500:21:54

And when it's bad, well, you get the general idea.

0:21:540:21:58

Just ask the Beatles.

0:21:590:22:00

# Love, love me do

0:22:000:22:03

# You know I love you... #

0:22:030:22:06

From their first hit, Love Me Do, in 1963,

0:22:060:22:09

right through to that final performance

0:22:090:22:11

on a rooftop in Savile Row,

0:22:110:22:13

it was just six years.

0:22:130:22:15

But from that all too brief career, their spectacular success

0:22:150:22:19

and dramatic collapse,

0:22:190:22:20

they set the template for so many bands who came after them.

0:22:200:22:24

# She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah

0:22:240:22:27

# She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah

0:22:270:22:30

# And with a love like that

0:22:300:22:31

# You know you should be glad. #

0:22:310:22:34

The Fab Four were the first band to write their own songs,

0:22:340:22:37

which was brilliant, but also left room for trouble.

0:22:370:22:40

There was the creative tension, obviously.

0:22:420:22:44

Lennon and McCartney had monopolised the songwriting credits throughout.

0:22:440:22:48

George Harrison was actually a pretty good songwriter himself,

0:22:480:22:51

but he'd been cut out from a very early stage

0:22:510:22:54

and was very resentful of that.

0:22:540:22:56

Before long, Lennon and McCartney began to pull

0:22:580:23:01

in different creative directions, and in 1970, the Beatles split up.

0:23:010:23:06

So they were sort of semi-detached.

0:23:060:23:08

That was starting to lead towards their solo careers,

0:23:080:23:11

so lots of those tunes that ended up on their first solo records

0:23:110:23:15

could easily have been on the later Beatles records.

0:23:150:23:19

But by then, they'd kind of drifted apart.

0:23:190:23:22

Well, I mean, the truth was that

0:23:250:23:28

when the Beatles broke up, you out of a job.

0:23:280:23:31

That was a very depressing time.

0:23:310:23:33

Because, as I say, the group had done its thing,

0:23:330:23:35

I think we were all beginning to feel we had come full circle

0:23:350:23:39

and it was getting a bit crabby and bitchy.

0:23:390:23:41

It just wasn't as pleasant as it had been and...

0:23:410:23:45

I suppose we were growing apart, really.

0:23:450:23:47

So, the Beatles exited the roof of the Apple building

0:23:520:23:55

and entered the history books.

0:23:550:23:57

And yet somehow their closest rivals,

0:23:570:23:59

the Rolling Stones, managed to hold it all together,

0:23:590:24:02

despite the same pressures of superstardom

0:24:020:24:05

and one member who thought of himself

0:24:050:24:07

very much as the star attraction.

0:24:070:24:09

The Stones were the first to come out with a guy

0:24:120:24:15

absolutely upfront, someone whose sole job was doing the singing.

0:24:150:24:19

# If you start me up... #

0:24:200:24:21

You know, it makes sense to have a solo vocalist at the front.

0:24:210:24:24

Gives you someone to focus your attention on.

0:24:240:24:27

Jagger defined the role, really, and I think everyone who came

0:24:270:24:30

after him, to some extent, followed in his footsteps.

0:24:300:24:34

# I live in an apartment on the 99th floor of my block... #

0:24:340:24:39

When I first took over PR for the Stones,

0:24:390:24:41

in my first meeting with Mick,

0:24:410:24:43

it wasn't long before Mick was explaining to me,

0:24:430:24:46

"Charlie doesn't do interviews, Bill is boring, Keith is out of it,

0:24:460:24:50

"Ronnie does what I tell him,

0:24:500:24:52

"you talk to me."

0:24:520:24:54

I thought, "We know where we are now."

0:24:560:24:58

It's the Mick Jagger show.

0:24:590:25:01

HE CHUCKLES

0:25:010:25:03

# I know it's only rock'n'roll

0:25:030:25:07

# But I like it... #

0:25:070:25:10

But without Mick, it probably would have crumbled.

0:25:100:25:13

You know, somebody had to pull things together, and he did it.

0:25:130:25:17

When the lead singer gets most of the attention,

0:25:170:25:20

it can lead to resentment among the other band members.

0:25:200:25:23

In the worst-case scenario, it results in what Keith Richards

0:25:230:25:28

calls, in a swipe at Jagger, LVS -

0:25:280:25:31

lead vocalist syndrome.

0:25:310:25:32

Lead singer syndrome is not a myth, it is a syndrome.

0:25:340:25:38

You just have got to keep a perspective on yourself.

0:25:380:25:43

You are just a human being. You need to remember that.

0:25:430:25:47

The moment you start thinking

0:25:470:25:49

and behaving like a rock god,

0:25:490:25:52

you are in serious trouble.

0:25:520:25:54

Guns N' Roses lead singer Axl Rose had his own, um...eccentricities.

0:25:590:26:04

They became more extreme as the band's success grew.

0:26:040:26:07

Sometimes he's an asshole, you know. And he'll admit it.

0:26:070:26:11

And he'll say sorry later.

0:26:110:26:12

But it's just something he can't really help right now, you know.

0:26:120:26:16

Rose had a habit of arriving late on stage - really, really late -

0:26:210:26:25

prompting riots at stadiums around the world.

0:26:250:26:28

He said he's coming to this thing,

0:26:280:26:30

and the announcer doesn't come out, makes 'em wait

0:26:300:26:33

for four or five hours till one or two in the morning.

0:26:330:26:37

I'd say, "Oh, these guys are coming, sing a friggin' couple of songs.

0:26:370:26:41

"What's the deal?" And I would say that, I would say that to him.

0:26:410:26:45

"What's the deal? Let's go."

0:26:450:26:48

And he wouldn't like it. And that's why I was the first to go.

0:26:480:26:53

It's because I stood up to him.

0:26:530:26:56

By 1997, only Axl Rose remained of the original Guns N' Roses line-up.

0:26:570:27:02

# Shine on, shine a light on me... #

0:27:050:27:09

Just about every band that becomes globally successful

0:27:110:27:14

wrestles with lead singer syndrome -

0:27:140:27:16

bands like Simple Minds who, during the '80s,

0:27:160:27:19

went from arthouse Euro-popsters to American stadium fillers.

0:27:190:27:23

Yeah, I think I've got an A+ in the lead singer syndrome, it was my job.

0:27:240:27:29

# What a world Or sometimes, oh, so it seems... #

0:27:290:27:34

You have to be a bit of an arsehole, I think.

0:27:340:27:37

You know, you're standing there, the music is playing,

0:27:380:27:41

all their stuff, and you are standing with the spotlight on you, going...

0:27:410:27:45

It's me.

0:27:450:27:46

Bar making the odd nod to them.

0:27:460:27:50

While they got hopefully a sort of 10-minute...10-second solo.

0:27:500:27:54

The problem is that, you know, you are young

0:27:590:28:02

and...the oxygen then starts to get rare.

0:28:020:28:06

And you start to sort of...

0:28:060:28:09

..you know - "No, it's my hands on the driving wheel."

0:28:100:28:13

And, you know, with great bands,

0:28:130:28:15

it's never one person's hands on the driving wheel.

0:28:150:28:19

And you can see why all the others would tire of that.

0:28:190:28:24

Yet the core of Simple Minds, like the Rolling Stones,

0:28:240:28:27

is still going strong,

0:28:270:28:29

so what's the secret of a lasting musical relationship?

0:28:290:28:32

# Reel to reel... #

0:28:330:28:35

People talk about what we've been in,

0:28:350:28:37

they say, "It's like a marriage, isn't it?"

0:28:370:28:39

And I say, "No - first of all we don't sleep with each other,

0:28:390:28:42

"and as yet, Charlie hasn't taken my house off me."

0:28:420:28:46

So it's not like a marriage at all.

0:28:460:28:48

One of the problems Jim and I had, actually,

0:28:510:28:54

was that after so long together, we started thinking like one person.

0:28:540:28:58

You know...it's great to have a little bit of tension in there.

0:28:580:29:02

I think we are very tolerant,

0:29:020:29:05

so inside the tension, there's a great tolerance as well.

0:29:050:29:10

# Hey, hey, hey, hey

0:29:120:29:15

# Oooh... #

0:29:160:29:17

By 1985, this song, Don't You Forget About Me,

0:29:170:29:21

was a global hit.

0:29:210:29:23

But just as the big time beckoned, the band began to fall apart.

0:29:230:29:27

At the time, we were arguably one of the biggest bands in the world,

0:29:290:29:33

and the way I see it, I've got this...image in my head,

0:29:330:29:37

you know - we were like a jumbo jet

0:29:370:29:39

that was starting to lose engines every month.

0:29:390:29:43

Charlie and I still trying to pilot it through.

0:29:430:29:46

# Don't you forget about me... #

0:29:460:29:53

Over the years, the entire rhythm section, drums, bass and keyboards -

0:29:530:29:57

this was the '80s, after all - have all left, one by one.

0:29:570:30:01

But Jim and Charlie have kept going with a changing cast of members.

0:30:010:30:05

I think, simply, you just have to be into it or not.

0:30:050:30:09

And it takes about 10 years to find out if people are into it.

0:30:090:30:12

One of the members, he said, "I've had enough."

0:30:120:30:15

He said, "I've given 10 years of my life to this."

0:30:150:30:21

You'd have thought he was on Robben Island.

0:30:210:30:24

As opposed to the Four Seasons in New York.

0:30:240:30:28

"I've given 10 years of my life to this."

0:30:280:30:32

And we were sort of looking, and thinking,

0:30:320:30:35

"There's another 40 to go! We're only starting out!"

0:30:350:30:38

# Here's to the babies in a brand-new world

0:30:380:30:43

# Here's to the beauty of the stars... #

0:30:430:30:45

We have proven to be in it for the long haul.

0:30:450:30:48

We've been doing this so long now that it's no longer a career,

0:30:480:30:51

it's actually what you do with your life.

0:30:510:30:53

# Here's to you, my little loves

0:30:530:30:56

# The message from above

0:30:560:30:58

# Let the day begin... #

0:30:580:31:01

A lot of bands have a core creative partnership at their centre.

0:31:010:31:05

Two people who come up with all the songs.

0:31:050:31:07

A kind of musical yin and yang.

0:31:070:31:09

And the problem is that sometimes,

0:31:090:31:11

Yin and Yang don't like each other very much.

0:31:110:31:14

Yin wants a separate limo from Yang.

0:31:140:31:16

They come to town to do a gig

0:31:160:31:17

and Yang wants to be in a separate hotel from Yin,

0:31:170:31:20

on the other side of the city.

0:31:200:31:22

Basically, what I'm saying is what's it like

0:31:220:31:24

when Yin and Yang can't stand the sight of each other?

0:31:240:31:27

Well, look at Mick and Keith.

0:31:270:31:29

I think there's always been a little bit of friction.

0:31:320:31:35

I mean, the classic one I can recall is the one where

0:31:350:31:38

the reporter said to Keith,

0:31:380:31:41

"When are you going to stop this bitching between you and Mick?"

0:31:410:31:44

Keith said, "Ask the bitch."

0:31:440:31:46

I love the man.

0:31:520:31:53

You know, he can be a pain sometimes, but then, no doubt I can.

0:31:530:31:57

But working with a bunch of people for this amount of time is,

0:31:590:32:03

you know, it is fairly unique.

0:32:030:32:05

As the Rolling Stones tour manager and pianist,

0:32:050:32:08

this man, Ian Stewart,

0:32:080:32:10

helped keep the band together from their formation in 1962

0:32:100:32:14

to Stewart's death in 1985.

0:32:140:32:16

People had been imploring them to go on stage for about an hour,

0:32:170:32:20

you know, cos the crowd were getting restless outside

0:32:200:32:22

and there was going to be a riot.

0:32:220:32:24

"You've got to get out there, they're tearing the place apart."

0:32:240:32:26

Stew would come in with his torch and he'd say,

0:32:260:32:30

"All right, come on, my little three-chord wonders."

0:32:300:32:33

And they'd all dutifully troop out behind him and go on stage.

0:32:330:32:36

It's surprising how many long-lasting bands

0:32:420:32:44

are held together by one key figure.

0:32:440:32:46

For Coldplay, one of the world's most successful acts,

0:32:460:32:49

it's their creative director, Phil Harvey.

0:32:490:32:52

Phil Harvey is our fifth member.

0:32:520:32:54

He was our first and original manager.

0:32:540:32:58

He paid for us to record our first EP.

0:32:580:33:01

He put on our first proper show in London. He's one of us.

0:33:010:33:04

He's the buffer between us and everything else.

0:33:040:33:06

For the five of us, there's a balance.

0:33:060:33:08

There's a chemistry.

0:33:080:33:10

I sort of thing of myself as a liquid glue

0:33:100:33:13

that just runs and fills any gaps that need filling.

0:33:130:33:17

# Singing please, please, please... #

0:33:190:33:23

When I notice that the tension between

0:33:230:33:28

two band members is getting...

0:33:280:33:30

..you know, might just be getting a little bit too intense,

0:33:320:33:34

then I think maybe it's my job just to kind of step in

0:33:340:33:38

and ease it off a little bit.

0:33:380:33:40

# In my place, in my place... #

0:33:400:33:43

I think there's a principle in architecture called tensegrity,

0:33:440:33:49

which comes from tension and integrity.

0:33:490:33:52

And it's the idea that if there's just the right amount of tension

0:33:520:33:58

between just the right component parts,

0:33:580:34:01

then the structure will stay upright.

0:34:010:34:04

When we're in the studio

0:34:040:34:06

and the steam is coming out of people's ears

0:34:060:34:09

and there's sulky silence, sometimes we'll nod to each other and just say,

0:34:090:34:14

"Oh, yeah - tensegrity."

0:34:140:34:15

I'd be amazed if we actually split up.

0:34:180:34:21

We're like a band of brothers, I guess.

0:34:210:34:24

But even when a band has someone trying really hard to hold it

0:34:290:34:32

all together, it still doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work.

0:34:320:34:35

Sometimes, it just all becomes too much.

0:34:350:34:38

Especially when those familiar tensions between the lead singer

0:34:380:34:41

and guitarist become too much to bear.

0:34:410:34:44

# I'd like to drop my trousers to the world

0:34:470:34:50

# I am a man of means... #

0:34:500:34:52

'80s indie icons The Smiths had all of that going on.

0:34:520:34:55

As well as writing the music and playing guitar,

0:34:550:34:58

21-year-old Johnny Marr reluctantly assumed the role

0:34:580:35:01

of his band's liquid glue.

0:35:010:35:03

What would happen, they'd be playing,

0:35:030:35:05

Morrissey would be in the control room with me.

0:35:050:35:07

He'd be...singing along to himself, working out what he...

0:35:070:35:10

And he'll go, "No, Johnny, it's too fast

0:35:100:35:12

"or it's too slow or it's too high or it's too low."

0:35:120:35:15

You know, so Johnny would have to put the capo on

0:35:150:35:17

and work out the key to play in.

0:35:170:35:19

Andy would have to tune up his bass differently, or whatever.

0:35:190:35:21

Johnny kind of walked that line

0:35:210:35:23

between the studious side of Morrissey

0:35:230:35:26

and the lad's side of the rest of the band.

0:35:260:35:29

And he trod that line very well, I thought.

0:35:290:35:32

When I think about what most 21-year-olds are doing these days,

0:35:320:35:36

it's quite scary how much he was accomplishing, even then.

0:35:360:35:40

# I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour

0:35:400:35:44

# But heaven knows I'm miserable now... #

0:35:440:35:47

The swift success of The Smiths was pretty scary too.

0:35:470:35:50

But as the band became bigger, Marr became more miserable himself.

0:35:500:35:54

Well, when it came to managers,

0:35:540:35:56

I think we tried about three or four and they'd usually...

0:35:560:36:00

..either walk out or Morrissey would say that it wasn't working,

0:36:010:36:06

blah, blah, blah.

0:36:060:36:07

"So-and-so, he's got to go." We phone him,

0:36:080:36:12

"So-and-so's got to go." And I just got tired of it.

0:36:120:36:15

-INTERVIEWER:

-And who was saying, "So-and-so's got to go"?'

0:36:150:36:18

So-and-so was saying it.

0:36:180:36:19

And so, more often than not, it was left to Johnny to do

0:36:210:36:26

all the phone calls and book a van, for instance.

0:36:260:36:30

It probably distracted from what he was supposed to be doing,

0:36:300:36:33

which was writing the songs and playing his guitar.

0:36:330:36:37

It definitely took its toll after a while.

0:36:370:36:39

And probably contributed to, you know, the demise of the band.

0:36:390:36:43

# Is it wrong to want to live on your own?

0:36:450:36:49

Things came to head in 1987,

0:36:490:36:51

during the filming of a video for the single Sheila Take A Bow.

0:36:510:36:55

Everyone turned up ready for the shoot in London, except Morrissey.

0:36:550:36:58

Fancy that, eh?

0:36:580:36:59

The director and Johnny Marr went round

0:37:020:37:04

to where the elusive singer was staying.

0:37:040:37:07

We can hear that he's there. Like, you hear movement

0:37:070:37:10

behind the door, there's some sounds.

0:37:100:37:13

And now it's like 10 minutes banging, whatever.

0:37:130:37:16

We're like, trying to break down the door, even.

0:37:160:37:18

And then...

0:37:180:37:21

Then Johnny's just, like, had it.

0:37:210:37:23

And he stands at the door and he basically says, "That's it.

0:37:230:37:27

"If you don't come out of this door, the band is over.

0:37:270:37:29

"We can't continue to have a band if this is how you're going to behave.

0:37:290:37:33

"You have to appear, you have to show up. It's not just your band.

0:37:330:37:36

"If you don't come out of this door now,

0:37:360:37:39

"there will be no more Smiths."

0:37:390:37:40

We could not tell if he was behind that door,

0:37:400:37:44

laughing, like, thinking, "Hee-hee-hee!

0:37:440:37:47

"I got him. I'm breaking up.

0:37:480:37:50

"Like, this is where I want them." You know, laughing?

0:37:500:37:53

Or whether he was crying, and he was sad,

0:37:530:37:57

and he was depressed.

0:37:570:37:58

He was, like, broken-hearted that he couldn't get out that door.

0:37:580:38:02

I have no idea. I'll never know.

0:38:020:38:05

Marr kept his doubts to himself during recording of the 1987 album,

0:38:050:38:10

Strangeways, Here We Come.

0:38:100:38:13

I won't lie. I wasn't that aware.

0:38:130:38:15

I thought everything was going swimmingly.

0:38:150:38:18

But behind the scenes, obviously Johnny wasn't happy.

0:38:180:38:21

But he didn't really tell anybody. Or maybe he told Morrissey.

0:38:210:38:24

He didn't tell me.

0:38:240:38:26

The tensions within bands

0:38:290:38:32

are exacerbated by the fact that,

0:38:320:38:34

unique among social organisations,

0:38:340:38:38

they never talk about their problems.

0:38:380:38:40

Ever. They never verbalise their problems.

0:38:400:38:43

Nobody ever gets them a room and says,

0:38:430:38:45

"Do you know what's really irritating me about you?

0:38:450:38:48

"Can you do something about your behaviour?"

0:38:480:38:50

They never do it at all.

0:38:500:38:52

They just go and complain to somebody else.

0:38:520:38:54

With the album completed, The Smiths went to a restaurant

0:38:550:38:58

in London's Notting Hill for a band meal.

0:38:580:39:00

And then Johnny dropped the bombshell. And...

0:39:030:39:07

..I don't think anybody finished their fish and chips.

0:39:080:39:12

The colour went from everybody's face.

0:39:130:39:16

And that was that.

0:39:160:39:18

# Last night I dreamt... #

0:39:210:39:24

I didn't know what I was going to do.

0:39:240:39:28

No idea, but I thought, "It's all right." You know?

0:39:280:39:33

"Signing on is better than this." Really.

0:39:330:39:35

So The Smiths were no more and heaven knows,

0:39:380:39:41

we probably were a bit miserable back then, for a while.

0:39:410:39:44

But the legacy lives on, nowhere more obviously than

0:39:440:39:46

here in The Smiths Room at Salford Lad's Club.

0:39:460:39:50

Things took another turn for the worse in 1996

0:39:500:39:53

when drummer Mike Joyce

0:39:530:39:54

took Morrissey and Marr to court over royalties.

0:39:540:39:57

But countless bands have fallen out about money.

0:39:570:40:00

New romantics Spandau Ballet, country rockers the Eagles,

0:40:000:40:03

gangster rappers NWA - money is always an issue with bands.

0:40:030:40:08

I've seen it with Jimi Hendrix Experience,

0:40:140:40:17

I saw it with the Stones.

0:40:170:40:19

And I've seen it even with the Who, to a certain extent, you know?

0:40:190:40:24

As soon as you become successful

0:40:240:40:26

and you have that first hit record, then people start

0:40:260:40:29

looking around and saying, "Why is he getting more money than I'm getting?"

0:40:290:40:32

"Why are they getting a better share of what I've contributed myself

0:40:320:40:37

"than I seem to have?"

0:40:370:40:39

And that's when you get problems.

0:40:410:40:44

And that's when the splits start.

0:40:450:40:48

# Sweetness, sweetness

0:40:480:40:50

# I was only joking... #

0:40:500:40:52

In The Smiths' court case,

0:40:520:40:53

Mike Joyce won the right to extra royalties.

0:40:530:40:56

But Andy Rourke had settled out of court.

0:40:560:40:59

Horrible, horrible. I don't even like thinking about it.

0:40:590:41:01

Let alone talking about it.

0:41:010:41:03

I regret it, financially,

0:41:040:41:06

but on the other side, I don't regret it.

0:41:060:41:10

I don't think me and Johnny would still have a relationship,

0:41:100:41:12

for instance, if I had gone ahead with that.

0:41:120:41:14

No, I don't think I would change anything.

0:41:140:41:18

When Steven Adler was fired from Guns And Roses,

0:41:180:41:21

his bandmates tried to take away his future royalties.

0:41:210:41:24

You know what it's like to go to court

0:41:240:41:27

and see your best friend, who you grew up with,

0:41:270:41:30

and the other guys in your band,

0:41:300:41:32

and they're talking terrible things about you.

0:41:320:41:34

Which...I could say the same to them, which my lawyer did.

0:41:340:41:40

And it was just so painful. I wanted to die.

0:41:400:41:43

I would bring heroin with me to court.

0:41:430:41:47

At every chance I'd get, I'd go into the bathroom and smoke heroin.

0:41:470:41:50

This is why bands such as Coldplay

0:41:590:42:01

have divided their royalties equally.

0:42:010:42:04

Definitely, as much as anything, a founding principle of the band.

0:42:060:42:10

And yeah, I'm sure we drew on our group heroes, U2 and REM.

0:42:100:42:16

I think they had a similar model.

0:42:160:42:18

# Lights go out and... #

0:42:180:42:20

At some point, along the way, there was a band discussion.

0:42:200:42:24

It was acknowledged that Chris was doing more

0:42:240:42:26

than 25% of the songwriting,

0:42:260:42:29

so that was addressed.

0:42:290:42:31

But everything else has stayed split equally

0:42:310:42:34

and I think that's the way it'll stay till our dying day.

0:42:340:42:38

# Where I wanted to go... #

0:42:380:42:40

But it's not just money that members of a band

0:42:460:42:48

argue about after a break-up.

0:42:480:42:50

There are all kinds of other issues,

0:42:500:42:52

like ownership of the name, for example.

0:42:520:42:53

And then there's the back catalogue.

0:42:530:42:55

What happens when rival ex-members want to tour, doing the same songs?

0:42:550:43:00

Well, that's when things can get really messy.

0:43:000:43:02

# I've watched your face for a long time... #

0:43:040:43:08

The great thing about being human and your faith in humanity is trust.

0:43:080:43:13

And loyalty. What I've found is that there is no trust or loyalty.

0:43:130:43:18

'In 2011, New Order announced that they were going to perform

0:43:190:43:23

'and record again for the first time in five years,

0:43:230:43:26

'without their long-standing bassist, Peter Hook.'

0:43:260:43:29

We've been talking a lot about, you know,

0:43:290:43:31

bands splitting up in this programme.

0:43:310:43:34

We are in an enormously, uniquely interesting situation with you,

0:43:340:43:38

because you say New Order split up and they say -

0:43:380:43:42

or at least, those trading under the banner of New Order -

0:43:420:43:45

say that you left.

0:43:450:43:47

In all fairness, you just go,

0:43:470:43:48

"What does it matter whether you split or whether you left?"

0:43:480:43:53

If the band splits, each member retains

0:43:530:43:56

an equal right in the assets.

0:43:560:43:58

The good will. And the name.

0:43:580:44:01

Now, it's very important for them to carry on, because of what they

0:44:010:44:04

did to me when they reformed in 2011.

0:44:040:44:07

Their stance has to be that "he left".

0:44:070:44:10

We didn't leave. We split up.

0:44:100:44:12

You get locked out of your house,

0:44:150:44:17

your wife throws you something out the letterbox and goes,

0:44:170:44:20

"Piss off, Mark!"

0:44:200:44:21

-HE LAUGHS

-You going to go,

0:44:210:44:23

"Oh, right, love! See you, then. Yeah, that's fine."

0:44:230:44:26

You're not, are you? You're going to want a fair settlement

0:44:260:44:29

for what you put into that relationship.

0:44:290:44:32

And I don't feel I've had a fair settlement.

0:44:320:44:34

People always say "Oh, well, you're synonymous with New Order.

0:44:340:44:38

"You always will be." And yet they're using the brand name

0:44:380:44:42

that I spent 30 years building up.

0:44:420:44:44

All of a sudden, I didn't have 25%

0:44:440:44:46

of New Order's good will or trademark. I had 1%.

0:44:460:44:50

All of a sudden, that's what they shoved through the letterbox to me.

0:44:500:44:53

And it's not fair. And that's what I'm fighting and I'm still fighting.

0:44:530:44:57

I'll fight until the day I die and then my son is on instructions

0:44:570:45:00

to fight on after that until the day he dies.

0:45:000:45:02

And then hopefully his son will fight on after that.

0:45:020:45:04

I'm not stopping.

0:45:040:45:06

# Maybe I've forgotten the name and the address... #

0:45:060:45:12

Band arguments like this can end in farce as well as tragedy.

0:45:120:45:16

# We don't need no education... #

0:45:160:45:21

Like when Roger Waters left Pink Floyd

0:45:210:45:23

and sued his ex-bandmates, not only over the band name,

0:45:230:45:27

but also their famous flying pig.

0:45:270:45:29

He said, "You can't use that.

0:45:290:45:31

"That's my idea, the pig. I'm not having you using it."

0:45:310:45:34

So they had to make sure that the pig

0:45:340:45:36

was demonstrably different from the pig that Roger Waters used.

0:45:360:45:39

So they actually contracted a new pig

0:45:390:45:41

with some very prominent genitalia on it

0:45:410:45:44

and that was deemed sufficient to differentiate it from the old pig.

0:45:440:45:47

It seems these days that every band you've ever heard of reforms.

0:45:500:45:53

Is it because they love each other so much

0:45:530:45:56

that they can't bear to be apart any longer?

0:45:560:45:58

Or is it the stadium gigs, the DVDs,

0:45:580:46:00

the merchandising, the new greatest hits album?

0:46:000:46:03

In other words, is it the cash?

0:46:030:46:05

# On a dark desert highway... #

0:46:070:46:10

After Californian band Eagles' rancorous split in 1980,

0:46:100:46:14

singer Glenn Fry said that hell would freeze over

0:46:140:46:17

before they reformed.

0:46:170:46:19

Guess what the 1994 reunion tour was called, then...

0:46:190:46:22

Everybody knew that the reason they were getting back together,

0:46:230:46:27

primarily, was that there were

0:46:270:46:28

hundreds of millions of dollars at stake.

0:46:280:46:30

And that then did seem

0:46:300:46:34

to make it permissible for all sorts of acts that had hated each other

0:46:340:46:39

and come to blows to reunite very lucratively.

0:46:390:46:44

Some bands reunite successfully.

0:46:490:46:51

The Police's tour made them 2007's highest-paid musicians,

0:46:510:46:55

nearly 30 years after their first hit.

0:46:550:46:58

I can't say that

0:46:580:46:59

it's joyous to get back together.

0:46:590:47:01

It's not like that, you know? We are three smart arses back together.

0:47:010:47:05

They're going to play well

0:47:050:47:07

and they're going to make the most of it, which is what we did.

0:47:070:47:11

It was exhilarating.

0:47:110:47:12

Others hope that a reunion will one day happen.

0:47:150:47:19

Everywhere in the world that I go,

0:47:190:47:21

not one or two,

0:47:210:47:24

hundreds of people come up to me -

0:47:240:47:26

"When are you doing the reunion?

0:47:260:47:27

"You've got to do a reunion. The band was never the same when you left."

0:47:270:47:31

If any of us could go back and do again what we did

0:47:350:47:38

when we were 25 and get paid a fortune for it

0:47:380:47:42

and enjoy waves of approbation like you can't imagine, we would do it!

0:47:420:47:46

'Some reunions seem likely.'

0:47:490:47:52

Once they've had a chance to move on a bit, I think Noel and Liam

0:47:520:47:55

are going to look at each other one day and say, "Shall we do it again?"

0:47:550:47:57

You can probably put some money on that.

0:48:010:48:03

MUSIC: Dancing Queen by Abba

0:48:030:48:08

But even a reported offer of 1 billion

0:48:080:48:10

has failed to persuade Abba out of retirement.

0:48:100:48:13

They are never going to do it, for the simple reason that they...

0:48:140:48:17

(A) They don't need the money and

0:48:170:48:19

(B) They are not interested in being Abba again.

0:48:190:48:22

# You can dance, you can jive... #

0:48:220:48:27

Sometimes it seems amazing that bands

0:48:280:48:30

manage to stay together at all.

0:48:300:48:32

If it's not problems with money, it's the sex, it's the lead singer,

0:48:320:48:35

it's spending endless hours in rehearsal rooms like this.

0:48:350:48:39

It's the drugs, it's the fame, it's the endless touring.

0:48:390:48:42

But with the money to be made, perhaps it's not surprising

0:48:420:48:45

that the business started to create its own bands.

0:48:450:48:48

Particularly in '90s Britain.

0:48:480:48:50

This was the era of New Labour and focus groups.

0:48:500:48:53

And manufactured bands really caught the zeitgeist.

0:48:530:48:56

This is BBC Four, so of course,

0:48:560:48:58

we can confidently use words like zeitgeist.

0:48:580:49:01

# Yo, tell you what I want, what I really, really want

0:49:010:49:04

# So tell me what you want, what you really, really want... #

0:49:040:49:06

The appeal of those early manufactured bands in the '90s

0:49:060:49:08

was that they were basically four or five young kids brought together.

0:49:080:49:12

They were easy to manage because you didn't have prima donnas

0:49:120:49:15

wrestling for control of the group

0:49:150:49:17

as you would have in a non-manufactured band.

0:49:170:49:20

'At least that's what the founders of Spice Girls and Take That hoped.'

0:49:220:49:26

So what was your thoughts behind getting Take That together,

0:49:260:49:30

right back at the beginning?

0:49:300:49:31

I was working with one of the music acts on a Saturday morning TV show

0:49:310:49:36

and New Kids On The Block were on,

0:49:360:49:38

and they were obnoxious.

0:49:380:49:39

Really hard work, wouldn't really deal with the crew

0:49:390:49:43

in a very friendly way and I just thought...

0:49:430:49:46

You know, I could find similar lads in Manchester

0:49:460:49:51

and put them into a band.

0:49:510:49:53

And they'd be massive.

0:49:530:49:55

You know, they'd be far more professional, easy-going.

0:49:550:49:58

-# Ice!

-Could never be as cold as you... #

0:49:580:50:02

I've moved to another guitar now

0:50:050:50:07

to showcase my acoustic and sensitive balladry side.

0:50:070:50:10

But whatever those bands were doing,

0:50:100:50:12

they were certainly doing something right.

0:50:120:50:14

Because, as we all remember,

0:50:140:50:15

they became incredibly successful at the time.

0:50:150:50:18

But neither line-up proved as resilient

0:50:180:50:20

as their creators were hoping for.

0:50:200:50:22

And perhaps if you don't have a shared history,

0:50:220:50:25

if you don't have long-standing friendships and relationships,

0:50:250:50:28

some kind of fracture is almost inevitable.

0:50:280:50:30

Which sounds a kind of minor keynote, doesn't it?

0:50:300:50:33

HE STRUMS A MINOR CHORD

0:50:330:50:35

# I'm giving you everything

0:50:350:50:38

# All that joy can bring... #

0:50:380:50:41

At the beginning, it's great.

0:50:410:50:43

Everyone's got one aim and that is to be successful.

0:50:430:50:46

Everyone's getting on with each other cos they have to

0:50:460:50:49

and everyone's aiming to get to the top of the chart.

0:50:490:50:52

Once you're at the top of the charts,

0:50:520:50:55

that's when all of the problems set in.

0:50:550:50:58

GIRLS SCREAMING HYSTERICALLY

0:50:580:51:01

Turns out members of manufactured bands feel the pull

0:51:010:51:04

of a solo career too.

0:51:040:51:06

Robbie Williams left Take That in 1995,

0:51:060:51:09

on the eve of their first world tour.

0:51:090:51:11

Robbie left Take That because he was a bit of a boy-band maverick.

0:51:130:51:17

When he became friends with Liam Gallagher

0:51:170:51:19

and he was allowed to dance on stage with Oasis at Glastonbury,

0:51:190:51:23

it was the tipping point for him.

0:51:230:51:25

He suddenly looked out there and saw that he didn't actually have

0:51:250:51:29

to sing Back For Good any more, if he didn't want to.

0:51:290:51:32

# I just want you back for good

0:51:320:51:34

# Want you back, want you back

0:51:340:51:37

# Want you back for good... #

0:51:370:51:40

Take That disbanded a year later.

0:51:400:51:43

Unfortunately, the rumours are true.

0:51:430:51:45

And from today...is no more.

0:51:450:51:49

# The race is on to get out of the bottom... #

0:51:490:51:53

The Spice Girls' break-up three years later in 1998

0:51:530:51:56

was equally dramatic.

0:51:560:51:57

Geri Halliwell, otherwise known as Ginger Spice,

0:52:000:52:03

has announced she's left the Spice Girls.

0:52:030:52:05

Ginger Spice, de facto head Spice Girl and originator

0:52:050:52:09

of Girl Power, walked out on the eve of their first global tour.

0:52:090:52:13

I guess Geri was always the loose cannon, if you like,

0:52:130:52:16

amongst the five of them.

0:52:160:52:18

She could be quite domineering,

0:52:180:52:19

she could be quite strident

0:52:190:52:22

when she was trying to get her ideas...

0:52:220:52:25

Push them through.

0:52:250:52:26

Like Robbie, Geri had her eye on a solo career

0:52:260:52:29

and her own reasons for avoiding lots of live performing.

0:52:290:52:33

She was least confident in that situation of getting her own way.

0:52:330:52:38

It was a big, long tour.

0:52:380:52:39

She was never trained as a dancer or as a singer.

0:52:390:52:42

It was her area of least expertise.

0:52:420:52:44

The advantage, I suppose, of a manufactured band

0:52:460:52:48

is that the public can have more of an investment

0:52:480:52:51

in the brand and the line-up.

0:52:510:52:52

ALL: Girl Power! Whoo!

0:52:520:52:55

Take That reinvented their brand

0:52:550:52:57

when they reformed in 2006 without Robbie.

0:52:570:53:00

# Whoa! Cos I-I-I... #

0:53:000:53:05

I went to the press conference where Take That announced

0:53:050:53:08

that they were coming back.

0:53:080:53:09

Everyone was thinking, you know,

0:53:090:53:10

"How tragic - four members of a defunct boy band come back

0:53:100:53:14

"because their solos careers aren't doing so well."

0:53:140:53:17

But they sent themselves up at the press conference.

0:53:170:53:19

The whole thing was just the four of them bantering with each other

0:53:190:53:25

and showing that they were actually pretty good eggs.

0:53:250:53:27

And all the journalists left that press conference

0:53:270:53:29

really on Take That's side.

0:53:290:53:31

Well, we'd just like to say thank you very much to everyone

0:53:310:53:34

for giving us the last 10 years off.

0:53:340:53:36

But unfortunately, the rumours are true...

0:53:360:53:39

Take That are going back on tour.

0:53:390:53:41

The comeback was complete in 2010, when Robbie rejoined

0:53:410:53:45

for a chart-topping album and record-breaking tour.

0:53:450:53:49

# We will meet you where the lights are

0:53:490:53:54

# The defenders of the faith... #

0:53:540:53:58

That created the rekindling of the relationship.

0:53:580:54:03

But by that time, they'd already earned a big fan base

0:54:030:54:08

who were now becoming older.

0:54:080:54:11

And they're now taking their daughters to see the band.

0:54:120:54:15

And the band have retained this "cheeky chappie" thing.

0:54:150:54:19

So they've got a new generation of fans.

0:54:190:54:21

In the last few minutes, the Spice Girls have announced

0:54:250:54:27

that they are reforming for a world tour.

0:54:270:54:29

# Let's make the headlines loud and true... #

0:54:290:54:34

The Spice Girls' comeback was less successful.

0:54:340:54:37

Their reunion single was called Friendship Never Ends,

0:54:370:54:41

but the world tour in 2008 folded early.

0:54:410:54:45

I mean, it sort of gave the lie to the philosophy of "girl power,"

0:54:450:54:49

the idea that friendship never ends.

0:54:490:54:51

Now it had ended.

0:54:510:54:53

# ..loud tonight... #

0:54:540:54:56

Take That are still soldiering on as a three-piece after

0:54:580:55:01

Jason Orange left the band in 2014.

0:55:010:55:04

But how much longevity can a manufactured band have?

0:55:040:55:08

Bands that survive is definitely something that captures

0:55:080:55:10

the public's imagination.

0:55:100:55:13

And Take That have survived.

0:55:130:55:15

This new thing, when I saw the three of them dancing, my heart sank.

0:55:150:55:19

I think it's good to know when you're past your sell-by date.

0:55:190:55:22

I would say - sorry, Take That - they are fast approaching it.

0:55:220:55:27

Now, we don't want to finish this film on a downer,

0:55:340:55:36

all doom and gloom.

0:55:360:55:38

It is possible to have all the fun and all the success

0:55:380:55:41

and then just part when you've had enough as friends.

0:55:410:55:43

Just ask REM.

0:55:430:55:45

# Oh, life is bigger... #

0:55:470:55:52

They're the only band that I know of that broke up

0:55:520:55:56

with such grace, dignity and style

0:55:560:55:59

that no-one will probably ever do that again.

0:55:590:56:02

We took a while to figure out that

0:56:020:56:04

we wanted to call it a day. Disband.

0:56:040:56:07

Why? Because you could go on,

0:56:070:56:09

you could sort of separate for a bit,

0:56:090:56:10

you could come back for a bit.

0:56:100:56:12

The Rolling Stones do it, other bands do it.

0:56:120:56:14

Because it was an opportunity for us

0:56:140:56:16

to walk away on our own terms.

0:56:160:56:18

Which is something that, as far as I know, very few bands, certainly that

0:56:180:56:22

have been around for any length of time have had the opportunity to do.

0:56:220:56:25

There are no external forces making us do this. We have no problems.

0:56:250:56:28

We can walk away as friends and feel like we've accomplished everything

0:56:280:56:32

we wanted to accomplish.

0:56:320:56:33

I'd be absolutely shocked if they ever got back together again

0:56:350:56:38

and did a "reunion tour" for the money.

0:56:380:56:41

Because they're just not about money.

0:56:410:56:43

You know, I miss them when I hear them on the radio.

0:56:430:56:46

But, at the end of the day, I think it's good to leave

0:56:460:56:48

when you're on top.

0:56:480:56:50

APPLAUSE AND CHEERING

0:56:530:56:56

# Mama

0:57:000:57:02

# I just killed a cat, you know? #

0:57:020:57:06

So. Not everyone can be this good, clearly.

0:57:060:57:08

But what do you have to do if you want to survive in a band?

0:57:080:57:12

In the olden days, we'd have said if you want to keep on trucking

0:57:120:57:15

whilst others fall by the wayside.

0:57:150:57:18

Well, look on and learn, One Direction,

0:57:180:57:20

as you travel to your next gig in your separate limos.

0:57:200:57:23

Especially now it's only four separate limos.

0:57:230:57:26

Any advice I could give to any band is really

0:57:280:57:31

the basic advice of don't do drugs.

0:57:310:57:35

It's really a waste of time,

0:57:350:57:37

it doesn't make you a better performer.

0:57:370:57:39

You think it does, but it doesn't.

0:57:390:57:42

# Said her name was Georgia Rose... #

0:57:420:57:44

Get professional counselling.

0:57:440:57:46

That's one of the things I should have done with Take That.

0:57:460:57:49

If they don't get counselling, they'll start doing it in interviews.

0:57:490:57:52

Well, looking back over the whole thing, the whole experience,

0:57:530:57:56

would I do anything different?

0:57:560:57:58

I think I'd replace the drums and bass.

0:57:580:58:01

Or, to keep it really SIMPLE,

0:58:060:58:08

here's the advice that Jim Kerr gave to Chris Martin of Coldplay.

0:58:080:58:12

I was thinking they're already the biggest band on the planet

0:58:120:58:15

and I thought...

0:58:150:58:16

"Don't split up."

0:58:180:58:19

And...there will be millions of people watching this, saying,

0:58:190:58:23

"Why did you tell them that?"

0:58:230:58:24

That's... That's... I'm speaking from the heart.

0:58:240:58:28

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