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In a deserted warehouse... | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
-Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. -It's fine. Don't worry. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
..on the dreaded third floor... | 0:00:09 | 0:00:11 | |
I'm sorry. My mind has gone just completely blank at the moment. | 0:00:13 | 0:00:16 | |
..people flock to the intense pressure cooker | 0:00:16 | 0:00:21 | |
that is the Dragons' Den. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:23 | |
Do you know what? | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
-We'll do that. -We'll do it. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:27 | |
Real people with real dreams. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:30 | |
I like it. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:31 | |
Oh, my God! | 0:00:31 | 0:00:33 | |
Meeting real investors with real money. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:35 | |
Thank you. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:36 | |
Hey! | 0:00:36 | 0:00:38 | |
I'm Richard Osman, and for me, watching Dragons' Den | 0:00:38 | 0:00:41 | |
is the perfect combination of business and pleasure, | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
with a little bit of pain, when I have to listen to Peter Jones | 0:00:44 | 0:00:48 | |
making his puns about, say, a trampoline for cats. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
For years, I've been intrigued as those intrepid entrepreneurs have | 0:00:51 | 0:00:55 | |
stepped out in front of the Dragons. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:57 | |
Did you come in here looking for a fight? | 0:00:57 | 0:00:59 | |
Rooted for them, as they pitched for their future success... | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
I'm really sorry. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
I'm sorry, I've just gone quite light-headed. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:05 | |
And squirmed, winced and, on occasion, hidden behind the sofa, | 0:01:05 | 0:01:09 | |
as they tackle the biggest interrogation of their lives. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:13 | |
That couldn't have gone any worse, could it? | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
How much profit are you going to make next year? | 0:01:15 | 0:01:16 | |
I'm looking to turn over... | 0:01:16 | 0:01:18 | |
No, no, no. Next word out of your mouth is a number. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:21 | |
Now I'm going to relive extraordinary moments. | 0:01:21 | 0:01:24 | |
You've got these crazy people walking in and saying, we've got small pencils. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:28 | |
-You're in trouble. -Touker was crazy. Like, what? | 0:01:28 | 0:01:32 | |
Find out how those Den deals are doing. | 0:01:32 | 0:01:34 | |
Nice to meet you. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:36 | |
Am I worth 50%? Of course I'm worth 50%. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
And discover if a Dragon's help really can make profits soar... | 0:01:39 | 0:01:43 | |
-Would you like a little bit of vinegar, sir? -Yes, please. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:46 | |
OK, that's an extra 5p. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:47 | |
..in my continuing quest | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
to find out if pitches really do lead to riches. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:53 | |
HE CHUCKLES | 0:01:53 | 0:01:54 | |
The Dragons. The toughest investors an entrepreneur will ever face. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:04 | |
And they never get a second chance to make a first impression. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:08 | |
(This is it.) | 0:02:10 | 0:02:12 | |
(This is the moment of our lives.) | 0:02:14 | 0:02:16 | |
(Are you ready? | 0:02:17 | 0:02:19 | |
(I was born ready.) | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
It's never a bad idea | 0:02:22 | 0:02:23 | |
to come through those lift doors with a bang. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:27 | |
Perfect entrance. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:29 | |
It's what I call theatre. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:31 | |
Ey up! | 0:02:31 | 0:02:33 | |
# What's that coming over the hill? Is it a monster? # | 0:02:33 | 0:02:37 | |
I don't care what anybody says. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:39 | |
They always form a first impression. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:42 | |
Have you ever met someone who's got that ambitious that he wants to be | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
free from life and be a billionaire? | 0:02:45 | 0:02:47 | |
It's a very, very high pressured environment. | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
They can win me or lose me in that instant. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
If you come into the Den, I expect you to dress for the occasion. | 0:02:57 | 0:03:00 | |
What's wrong with a suit? | 0:03:00 | 0:03:01 | |
Nothing is wrong with a suit, Peter, but it's not me. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:04 | |
What's with the scarf? | 0:03:04 | 0:03:06 | |
Do you know what? You've got to stand out sometimes. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
I am always so excited to see what is coming through those doors. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
Look at them. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:15 | |
ALL: Hi! | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
We have no idea what is coming next. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
Is that me? | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
No, it's him. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:27 | |
It's a high-risk strategy, when you burst through the doors. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:32 | |
Because your business has kind of got to follow through. | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
# Gold Always believe in your soul... # | 0:03:39 | 0:03:44 | |
Did that just happen? | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
First up on their journey from pitch to rich are a duo | 0:03:49 | 0:03:52 | |
whose whole business is built on first impressions. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:55 | |
Beth Chilton and Sarah Sleightholm cat-walked out | 0:03:55 | 0:03:59 | |
of the lift with their fledgling fashion business. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
I've invited both of them back to relive their Den experience | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
and shed light on what it's like to face those five formidable Dragons. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:11 | |
One of whom was particularly formidable that day. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:17 | |
Now you, I think, very specifically, and we'll see why, | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
you came in to try and get a deal with Touker. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:23 | |
-Yes. -Is the truth. Shall we take a look? -Yes. Let's. -Let's. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
Hello, Dragons. We started our business in October of last year, | 0:04:29 | 0:04:34 | |
and within four weeks, we had our first order. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
And since then, we've grossed £530,000 worth of sales, | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
and we're currently at about a 28% profit margin with that. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
Well, this is the big moment, right? | 0:04:42 | 0:04:44 | |
It's a huge deal in the fashion industry to get Touker on board. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:47 | |
-It can be utterly transformative, right? -Yeah. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
-Hi. -Hi. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:51 | |
-I know a little bit about clothing. -Yep. -Yep. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
-I know all the pitfalls. -Oh, God, this is where it starts. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
You're not focused. You've got two brands there, | 0:04:58 | 0:05:01 | |
you've got to double your costs of marketing. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
You're going to double your costs of website. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:06 | |
And already, you're stretching yourselves very wide. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
You are in trouble. | 0:05:09 | 0:05:10 | |
What were you thinking when he first said that? | 0:05:12 | 0:05:15 | |
I ended up kind of just going, | 0:05:15 | 0:05:16 | |
"Oh, my gosh. This is going to be career suicide." | 0:05:16 | 0:05:19 | |
Like, white noise all of a sudden. I was like, "Oh, my God." | 0:05:19 | 0:05:22 | |
Touker has been in this game for a long time, | 0:05:22 | 0:05:25 | |
probably most of his adult life. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:26 | |
'What I heard him saying was that you haven't done very well, | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
'and actually, anybody to do this.' | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
Oh, no, don't say this, Peter! | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
'We know that it's sellable. People want it. They want it now.' | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
"We know!" | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:05:39 | 0:05:40 | |
I think that after the grilling and Peter was saying, | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
"Oh, you just keep agreeing." So we were like, | 0:05:43 | 0:05:44 | |
"Right, we need to go... Let's just fight for this." | 0:05:44 | 0:05:47 | |
You are better off focusing on one brand. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
I don't know how we can stop something that's doing so well. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
That's why we really want them both, and they both succeeding. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
-OK, I've seen it before. -OK. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:58 | |
And, to me, two brands, two websites... | 0:05:58 | 0:06:03 | |
You are in for a disaster. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:04 | |
When we went into the Den, we didn't even consider another Dragon - | 0:06:06 | 0:06:10 | |
just cos Touker was so focused on the fashion and retail sector, | 0:06:10 | 0:06:12 | |
we were just like, "If we can get him, | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
"that would just be amazing." | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
I think, at this point, we were just trying to ride it through... | 0:06:16 | 0:06:19 | |
Yeah - get out with your dignity intact. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:21 | |
Yeah, yeah. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:22 | |
But were their fortunes about to change? | 0:06:22 | 0:06:26 | |
'I was waiting to see whether he's being cleverly tactical, | 0:06:26 | 0:06:29 | |
'by just talking, and it's just noise...' | 0:06:29 | 0:06:31 | |
-And putting us off! -And putting us off. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
I have a business... | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
Have you heard of Farrell, or come across Farrell, | 0:06:36 | 0:06:38 | |
-with Robbie Williams? -Yeah. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:39 | |
-You didn't look like you had. BOTH: -No! | 0:06:39 | 0:06:41 | |
Even with what Touker is saying, if I invest, | 0:06:41 | 0:06:45 | |
could I make a difference and help you turn this into a great business? | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
Like, "Please, please, please...!" | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
I think I can. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:53 | |
-Like, "Yes!" -"Ah!" | 0:06:53 | 0:06:55 | |
'Wow. Thank you.' | 0:06:55 | 0:06:56 | |
-PETER: -'So I'm going to make you an offer | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
'because I think you have done a great job.' | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
My heart was leaping out of my chest at that point. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
'I'm going to offer you all of the money for 25% of the business.' | 0:07:06 | 0:07:11 | |
So, this is not something you were expecting at all. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
-Not at all. -Because you'd gone in to think about Touker. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
Suddenly, you're presented with a different reality. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:19 | |
I mean, this guy is involved in Farrell. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:21 | |
I don't know if you know Farrell... LAUGHTER | 0:07:21 | 0:07:22 | |
-Just a scenario we hadn't even thought of, I think. -Yeah. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
So, all of a sudden, it was just... We were like, "Oh, my God." | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
Peter Jones just had to put the dragon amongst the pigeons | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
and now, another was about to raise the stakes even higher. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
I'm going to offer you all of the money for 20% of the business. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:42 | |
-OK, thank you. -Thank you. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:43 | |
'Oh, and I'm happy to share.' | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
This is properly confusing now. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:48 | |
Yeah, we're kind of like, "What's been happening for the last...?" | 0:07:48 | 0:07:51 | |
How has it come from thinking we've just had career suicide... | 0:07:51 | 0:07:57 | |
..to everybody jumping on board? | 0:07:57 | 0:07:59 | |
Just kind of like, "OK." | 0:07:59 | 0:08:01 | |
So, the last Dragon standing was their old adversary, | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
Touker Suleyman. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:07 | |
It was time to find out if, by playing Beth and Sarah down, | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
he'd actually been playing the Den all along? | 0:08:10 | 0:08:13 | |
OK. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:16 | |
Um... I know what's involved. I know what you need. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:20 | |
-Mm-hm. -And it's going to take a lot of time, a lot of energy, | 0:08:22 | 0:08:24 | |
to make this into a proper business. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:26 | |
I will make you an offer, for all the money, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:28 | |
but I want 40%. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:31 | |
What were you thinking when he first said that? | 0:08:36 | 0:08:39 | |
That was crazy! Touker was crazy. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
-Yeah. -Like, what? | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
'Shall we go and do our thing at the back of the room?' | 0:08:43 | 0:08:47 | |
'Yeah. Can we...?' | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
So, you have a big choice to make, which is the dream, which is Touker, | 0:08:51 | 0:08:56 | |
or people that you hadn't considered at all. | 0:08:56 | 0:09:00 | |
There's no way - there's no way - | 0:09:00 | 0:09:02 | |
that you would go with one of the other Dragons, | 0:09:02 | 0:09:04 | |
even if they made an offer, because he is Touker. | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
-..discuss... -That's all right. -You go. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:13 | |
So, we would like to see if, | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
Peter, you'd go in with Deborah... | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
..at all on the offer? | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
At this point, I thought he was going to go, "No." | 0:09:24 | 0:09:27 | |
And I was like, "Oh, God, I've made a mistake. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:29 | |
"We should have just asked for one, not two." | 0:09:29 | 0:09:31 | |
I would accept that offer if Deborah would. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:36 | |
I'd be happy to. I'd be delighted to, actually. | 0:09:36 | 0:09:38 | |
Thank you. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:39 | |
-Yeah! -Oh, look! That's so sweet. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:43 | |
Yeah, well done. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:44 | |
Figure out how we do this now. We're in business together. | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
Thank you so much. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:49 | |
I think, with Touker grilling us for so long, | 0:09:49 | 0:09:50 | |
it kind of felt like he didn't have confidence in us, | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
even though he put an offer forward. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:55 | |
We kind of felt that he just didn't believe in us enough | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
to accept, you know, his offer. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:00 | |
Congratulations! | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
And how is it gone since you left the Den? | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
How involved have they been and what has been happening? | 0:10:05 | 0:10:07 | |
Since being in the Den, our turnover has doubled, | 0:10:07 | 0:10:11 | |
so our first year has been, like, incredible. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:13 | |
We've now got into all the retailers | 0:10:13 | 0:10:15 | |
that we wanted to get into. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:16 | |
So, our projections for next year are looking really, really good. | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
Everything has just been amazing for us. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
It's lovely. You know, it was such a tale of the unexpected, | 0:10:22 | 0:10:24 | |
you know, to go in looking for one thing, and to actually have | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
the exact opposite, and for that to be the dream. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
So, thank you so much for coming in and very best of luck with it all. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:32 | |
-Thank you. -Lovely watching it again. -It was fun, right? | 0:10:32 | 0:10:35 | |
As one of Britain's leading hipsters, | 0:10:37 | 0:10:39 | |
I can totally understand why the Den's longest-serving Dragons | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
invested in Beth and Sarah's business. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:45 | |
And Deborah Meaden also had another reason to celebrate this year. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:49 | |
Ten years ago, the grand dame of the Den took her seat. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:55 | |
I'm not here to lose money. I'm here to make money. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
Famous for her no-nonsense approach... | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
Stop talking over me. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:01 | |
My apologies. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
..the press have even compared her to an EastEnders character. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:06 | |
I'm irritated. Yes, I'm blinkin' irritated. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
You're feeling very uncomfortable at this moment. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:15 | |
You damn well ought be. Aren't you? | 0:11:15 | 0:11:17 | |
Every time somebody raises an issue, you are, "Yup, got it. Back at you." | 0:11:17 | 0:11:22 | |
Oh...! | 0:11:22 | 0:11:24 | |
Bramble, jump! | 0:11:24 | 0:11:25 | |
But there is a way to get on her good side. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:28 | |
Before you say anything, there's my money. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:30 | |
You've got dogs. There's my money. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:32 | |
Gorgeous dogs. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:35 | |
She loves pets almost as much as she loves patents. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:38 | |
Well, I was about to say I'd love to see the patent. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:40 | |
-I'll find it. -Oh, sorry. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
Absolutely understand how the patent system works. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
You know, I hate to be boring - I'm going to have to look at the patent. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:49 | |
And she is especially good when it comes to manipulating digits. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:53 | |
I think this is right up your alley. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:55 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:11:55 | 0:11:57 | |
Is it cos I do that? | 0:11:57 | 0:11:58 | |
Deborah is the queen of the Den. | 0:12:00 | 0:12:03 | |
She is our in-house lawyer | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
and she is mother hen. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:07 | |
Three words to describe Deborah... | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
Absolutely bloomin' brilliant. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
In the 11 years since the Den hit our screens, | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
it's become part of popular culture. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:20 | |
You simply can't move for Dragons on TV these days. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
'Try Lady Yvonne Sparrow.' | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
You know Evil Yvonne? | 0:12:25 | 0:12:27 | |
Evil Yvonne? | 0:12:27 | 0:12:28 | |
Yeah! She's like a Dragon, ain't she? | 0:12:28 | 0:12:30 | |
Well, she wasn't easy to live with, but... | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
No, no! Dragons' Den. It's this TV programme | 0:12:34 | 0:12:36 | |
where poor people come in with all their dreams, | 0:12:36 | 0:12:38 | |
and rich people make them cry. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
It's on YouTube. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:41 | |
During the recording | 0:12:41 | 0:12:42 | |
of the Kazakhstan TV's version of Dragons' Den, | 0:12:42 | 0:12:45 | |
there were very few takers for the automatic clothes drier. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:12:49 | 0:12:51 | |
We have seen some bizarre inventions on this programme, | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
but this one really takes the biscuit. | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
There is no way this thing will ever get off the ground. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
I'm out. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:06 | |
I mean, there can't be anyone who hasn't heard of Dragons' Den. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
In your everyday life, everyone must know who you are | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
and must want to talk to you about it. | 0:13:14 | 0:13:16 | |
What I love about it is | 0:13:16 | 0:13:17 | |
it's not always attached to me - sometimes, people will say, | 0:13:17 | 0:13:20 | |
"We're having a Dragons' Den style..." | 0:13:20 | 0:13:21 | |
You know, it's just incidental. It's not cos I'm there. | 0:13:21 | 0:13:24 | |
It's just entered the vernacular. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:26 | |
I also love...there is a whole age group of people | 0:13:26 | 0:13:28 | |
who have grown up with it. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:30 | |
So, they're sort of, 18, 19, now, | 0:13:30 | 0:13:32 | |
they talk about business like it's in their DNA. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:34 | |
That's brilliant. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:36 | |
I spend a lot of my time being shouted at in the street | 0:13:36 | 0:13:38 | |
and people shouting "Pointless!" at me out of van windows. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
What do people shout at you? | 0:13:41 | 0:13:43 | |
Oh, all the time... | 0:13:43 | 0:13:45 | |
"I'm out!" It's like, you know, "Yeah... I'm out." | 0:13:45 | 0:13:48 | |
SHE LAUGHS WEAKLY | 0:13:48 | 0:13:50 | |
How many times a day, would you say? | 0:13:50 | 0:13:52 | |
Oh...I mean, if I'm walking through a train station, | 0:13:52 | 0:13:57 | |
without exception, two or three shouts. | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
You know, it's, "Oh, hello, I'm out!" | 0:14:00 | 0:14:02 | |
Now, do you think you will ever utter those famous words, | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
"I'm out for good", and leave the Den? | 0:14:07 | 0:14:09 | |
Or are you with us for the foreseeable future? | 0:14:09 | 0:14:11 | |
You know, every year, I wonder. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:13 | |
But every year, as soon as we start filming, I think, | 0:14:13 | 0:14:15 | |
"Oh, I love this. This feels like home. This is what I do." | 0:14:15 | 0:14:19 | |
So, as long as I love it, I'll carry on doing it. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
Yeah, I'm guessing Deborah's actual home might be a little different. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
But much as she is loving the Den and keen as ever to invest, | 0:14:28 | 0:14:31 | |
surely she wouldn't part with her cash for a piece of plastic with a brush on the end? | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
None of the Dragons would...right? | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
Cue the Dhillon family, | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
who hope to go from pitch to rich with just that. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
-Hi, I'm Gurminder. -Hi, I'm Arminder. -Hi, I'm Rashpal. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:48 | |
So, here in my hands, I have the home-made prototype | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
of the Boot Buddy. | 0:14:51 | 0:14:53 | |
The idea came one day after football training, | 0:14:53 | 0:14:55 | |
when I decided there had to be an easier way | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
to clean my muddy football boots. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:58 | |
Now, we have our own proper Boot Buddy | 0:14:58 | 0:15:00 | |
in one compact, portable gadget. | 0:15:00 | 0:15:03 | |
To date, we've turned over £100,000 in the last year | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
and we sold 6,500 units. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:08 | |
Thank you for your time and I hope, together, we can... | 0:15:08 | 0:15:13 | |
ALL: Leave the outdoors outside. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
RICHARD: Nice! | 0:15:16 | 0:15:17 | |
But you need a lot more than a catchphrase. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:19 | |
And, after the boot cleaner had been thoroughly road-tested, | 0:15:19 | 0:15:22 | |
it was time for its 15-year-old inventor to leave. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
Too young to negotiate with the Dragons directly, you see. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
Now, the Den could get serious. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:30 | |
Would Peter Jones stick the boot in? | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
I have to say, until you said that you sold £100,000 worth of product, | 0:15:35 | 0:15:40 | |
I was a little bit in shock, | 0:15:40 | 0:15:41 | |
because it is just a water bottle with a brush on the end. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:45 | |
At that point, I was just weighing it up, | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
because even I know, sometimes, | 0:15:47 | 0:15:49 | |
the simplest ideas are not always the best. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
My biggest issue is the fact you've got to continue to refill it. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:56 | |
Things were looking bleak for the mother and son duo, | 0:15:59 | 0:16:02 | |
but then, Touker Suleyman wanted | 0:16:02 | 0:16:04 | |
to brush up on the business side of things. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:07 | |
What's the structure? I mean, you are working out of home. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
Yeah, we are, we work out of our home office. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
So what's your real business? | 0:16:12 | 0:16:14 | |
-Fish and chips... -Fish and chips? | 0:16:14 | 0:16:16 | |
Yes, fish and chips. | 0:16:16 | 0:16:17 | |
Oh, I love fish and chips. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:19 | |
I do. I really do, I love fish and chips! | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
And what's your share structure? I mean, who owns the business? | 0:16:22 | 0:16:25 | |
Well, obviously, Mum is the boss. She put the money in. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:28 | |
Mum's got 60% and... | 0:16:28 | 0:16:29 | |
Everybody else has 10%. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:32 | |
Right. And how much did Mum put in? | 0:16:32 | 0:16:35 | |
Um... | 0:16:35 | 0:16:37 | |
Total, just below 250,000. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
How much? | 0:16:42 | 0:16:43 | |
-Sorry? £250,000? -Yes. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:47 | |
HE WHISTLES | 0:16:47 | 0:16:49 | |
Wow! Um... | 0:16:49 | 0:16:50 | |
Wow. Good God. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:53 | |
That's a lot of fish and chips you must have sold! | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
Half of me thought, "What an amazing mum." | 0:16:57 | 0:17:01 | |
I mean, such commitment. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:03 | |
She was so incredible. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
And then the other half of me was thinking, | 0:17:05 | 0:17:07 | |
"Oh, God, no, that's bonkers! No!" | 0:17:07 | 0:17:09 | |
I'm going to say no. I'm afraid I'm out. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:12 | |
You would have to more sell more than I believe that you can sell | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
so, for that reason, I'm out. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:17 | |
The chip shop owners were taking a bit of a battering - | 0:17:18 | 0:17:20 | |
but was Touker Suleyman feeling any more chipper? | 0:17:20 | 0:17:24 | |
On paper, there was a lot of work to be done, but it did something to me. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:28 | |
My soft side came out. | 0:17:28 | 0:17:31 | |
It needs a lot. It needs... | 0:17:31 | 0:17:34 | |
To be focused, to sell it. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
Somebody who has got the contacts. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:39 | |
Somebody who can run the website. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:41 | |
Somebody who can give you some offices to work out of. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:44 | |
I will tell you what I'm going to do. | 0:17:46 | 0:17:48 | |
I'm willing to give you all the money, | 0:17:49 | 0:17:52 | |
but I want 35%. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:53 | |
I think you've done an amazing job and I... | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
I think it's a good product. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:02 | |
So, I'm going to offer you half of the money... | 0:18:02 | 0:18:04 | |
..and I would want... | 0:18:06 | 0:18:07 | |
..12.5% of the business. | 0:18:12 | 0:18:14 | |
On paper, this business doesn't look good. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:20 | |
A quarter million in the red, | 0:18:20 | 0:18:21 | |
so much money invested in IP, but you know what? | 0:18:21 | 0:18:25 | |
I thought..."We can make a lot of money from this." | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
I wonder whether three Dragons | 0:18:29 | 0:18:34 | |
could give this exactly what this needs? | 0:18:34 | 0:18:37 | |
So, I will offer you...£20,000 for 10%, | 0:18:37 | 0:18:43 | |
if the other Dragons agreed, but you get three Dragons. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:47 | |
The three of us will make a fantastic team. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:50 | |
It was decision time. | 0:18:53 | 0:18:54 | |
A rare offer from three Dragons, but that comes at a price. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:58 | |
In this case, they wanted 30% of the business - | 0:18:58 | 0:19:02 | |
three times more equity than the Dhillons had originally offered. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:05 | |
Um...yeah, we would love to work with all three of you. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:10 | |
Three is my favourite number, anyway! | 0:19:10 | 0:19:12 | |
-Is it your lucky number? -It is my lucky number. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:13 | |
-There you are, well... -Thank you. -Fantastic, well done. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:16 | |
Oh, OK. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:18 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:19:18 | 0:19:19 | |
-GURMINDER: -The man of the hour! | 0:19:19 | 0:19:21 | |
Do you think Mum made the right decision? | 0:19:22 | 0:19:24 | |
Yes, the best decision. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:27 | |
When I watched the Boot Buddy pitch, | 0:19:38 | 0:19:40 | |
I had to come and see Rashpal and the boys - firstly, cos | 0:19:40 | 0:19:42 | |
I have a lifelong fascination with how people clean their boots, | 0:19:42 | 0:19:45 | |
and secondly, they work in a fish and chip shop. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
As one of the world's leading Dragons' Den experts, | 0:19:53 | 0:19:55 | |
nothing will distract me from investigating what has happened | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
in the five months since the deal...apart from chips. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:02 | |
That is lovely. Thank you very much. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
There you go. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:06 | |
Every single thing we shoot should be like this. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:09 | |
Now, I'm going to be honest with you, it's not only me who is here today. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:12 | |
There's another gentleman I met at the Great Britain Tall Men's Club | 0:20:12 | 0:20:16 | |
who has come to see you as well. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:18 | |
-Hey! -Hey. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:27 | |
What are you doing there? You should be selling Boot Buddies! | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
What can I say? Got to do both at the same time. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:32 | |
-Hey, Peter. How are you? -How are you? | 0:20:32 | 0:20:33 | |
-I'm very well. How are you? -Arminder! | 0:20:33 | 0:20:35 | |
-RASHPAL: -Guess who's here? Look. Look who's here. | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
-Hey! How are you? -Nice to meet you. -How are you doing? The genius. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
-Good to see you, Peter. -Are you well? | 0:20:41 | 0:20:43 | |
-Yes, good, thank you. -I've got some good news for you. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:45 | |
-I know we've got a big delivery of stock coming in, haven't we? -Yes. | 0:20:45 | 0:20:48 | |
We've got 20 to 25,000 units. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
At the run rate at the moment, it would take us, probably, | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
about four-and-a-half months, four months, | 0:20:54 | 0:20:55 | |
-to sell 20 to 25,000, wouldn't it? -Yes, yeah. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
Unless, of course, you've got a good relationship | 0:20:58 | 0:21:00 | |
with the biggest sports company in Britain, Sports Direct, | 0:21:00 | 0:21:04 | |
who have decided to take all of your stock. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:07 | |
-Wow! -What? | 0:21:07 | 0:21:09 | |
They've ordered for 20,000, and they'll take up to 200,000. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:11 | |
You are off and running. Well done. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:14 | |
-Wow...wow! -Nice, man, well done! Well done you. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:18 | |
You could end up selling a million Boot Buddies in the next 12 months, | 0:21:18 | 0:21:21 | |
and, most importantly, get all of your money back. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
It'll be the best investment you've ever made. | 0:21:24 | 0:21:26 | |
-RASHPAL: -Sorry, Richard. There you go, Peter. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
-Thank you very much. -I'm fine... | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
So, Arminder, as the inventor of the thing, | 0:21:33 | 0:21:35 | |
how does that make you feel? | 0:21:35 | 0:21:37 | |
I'm blown away, to be honest with you. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:39 | |
I mean, it's amazing to know that it's going to get into | 0:21:39 | 0:21:42 | |
every household, potentially, in Britain and then, hopefully, | 0:21:42 | 0:21:45 | |
we can expand and take it global. | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
You've got to go back to school tomorrow | 0:21:48 | 0:21:49 | |
and you'll be saying to everyone, "I got an absolutely huge order for my invention." | 0:21:49 | 0:21:53 | |
How do your school friends take this whole adventure? | 0:21:53 | 0:21:55 | |
Well, they're shocked, really. | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
Has anyone asked to borrow money yet? | 0:21:58 | 0:21:59 | |
No, I've had people ask for jobs. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:02 | |
Oh, really? | 0:22:02 | 0:22:03 | |
I've told them, "Get a degree first, and then I'll see!" | 0:22:03 | 0:22:07 | |
Oh, man, this guy is going to go a long way! | 0:22:07 | 0:22:09 | |
Well, congratulations. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:10 | |
So lovely to be here, as well, when that news is broken to you. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
What a treat. That took me by surprise as well. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
It's lovely, I'm so happy. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:16 | |
Last year, turnover for the product was £100,000. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:21 | |
Do you mind if I come and grab some chips myself? | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
-Yeah, go. -Welcome! | 0:22:23 | 0:22:25 | |
The deal that Peter has just orchestrated | 0:22:26 | 0:22:28 | |
is set to make the business £1 million. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:30 | |
Right, what do you do? | 0:22:30 | 0:22:32 | |
Just like that? | 0:22:32 | 0:22:33 | |
You all right, love? Want some chippies? | 0:22:33 | 0:22:36 | |
Next job, a lesson in upselling. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:39 | |
Is there nothing this man can't do? | 0:22:39 | 0:22:41 | |
Would you like a little bit of vinegar, sir? | 0:22:41 | 0:22:43 | |
-Yes, please. Thank you. -That's an extra 5p. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:45 | |
-Would you like some salt, please? -Yes, absolutely. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:47 | |
That's only 10p, so that's perfect. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:49 | |
It's 9.80, but actually, for an extra 20p, | 0:22:51 | 0:22:53 | |
you can have something to eat it with. | 0:22:53 | 0:22:55 | |
There you go, perfect. £10 for cash, sir. | 0:22:55 | 0:22:57 | |
-Thank you very much indeed. -Thank you. | 0:22:57 | 0:22:59 | |
Thanks for visiting Peter's. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
-Peter's? -I'll talk to you about that later, it's a takeover. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
So, Peter, it's quite unusual for three Dragons to go in on a deal. | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
It does happen, but it's quite unusual. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:18 | |
So you are in this deal with Deborah and Touker. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:20 | |
How is that working for you? | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
I think it's working, you know... | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
It was working fine, | 0:23:24 | 0:23:25 | |
up until the fact that I ended up getting the order, | 0:23:25 | 0:23:27 | |
and then I did think to myself, "What am I doing?" | 0:23:27 | 0:23:30 | |
No, I am quite pleased. I'll tell you why I'm really chuffed - | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
because Touker spent so much of the series | 0:23:33 | 0:23:36 | |
trying to give his office away to someone, | 0:23:36 | 0:23:38 | |
and he managed to find a 15-year-old to give his office to. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
So, the big deal you've just done, | 0:23:42 | 0:23:44 | |
how much of that is, "It's a great product", | 0:23:44 | 0:23:45 | |
and how much of that is, "A Dragon is selling that great product"? | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
I do think it is a combination. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:51 | |
It has to be a good enough product to sell, | 0:23:51 | 0:23:53 | |
but if you know the person that owns the company, | 0:23:53 | 0:23:55 | |
that has major influence and you can pick the phone up, | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
it's...it's really easy. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
And they know you've got a track record and that, you know, | 0:24:00 | 0:24:02 | |
you back winners. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:04 | |
I suppose so, to a certain extent. I like everybody to think that, | 0:24:04 | 0:24:06 | |
but the reality is that I've got a long stream of things that haven't | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
gone well behind my back... | 0:24:09 | 0:24:10 | |
-Oh, yeah, me too. -But let's not talk about those today. -Exactly. | 0:24:10 | 0:24:13 | |
Throw enough mud at the wall, some of it sticks eventually. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:15 | |
Absolutely right. | 0:24:15 | 0:24:17 | |
Well, best of luck. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:18 | |
-Oh, thank you. I'm terribly excited. But, you know... -Shall we...? | 0:24:18 | 0:24:21 | |
Into chips. Do you think this would make a good investment, | 0:24:21 | 0:24:23 | |
the sort of place, or not? | 0:24:23 | 0:24:26 | |
Still to come, the secrets of the back wall revealed. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
Sarah always gives me a little nudge. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
(There is no chance he'll accept 20 in a million years.) | 0:24:35 | 0:24:38 | |
And did this man go from pitch to rich? | 0:24:38 | 0:24:42 | |
-LAUGHTER -Thank you. -That's brilliant. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
But before that... | 0:24:45 | 0:24:47 | |
Grab your organic popcorn, | 0:24:48 | 0:24:49 | |
as two more entrepreneurs relive the moment | 0:24:49 | 0:24:52 | |
they faced the formidable five. | 0:24:52 | 0:24:55 | |
Ross Williams and Surlender Pendress entered the Den, | 0:24:55 | 0:24:58 | |
hoping their pint-sized pencils would be big enough to land a deal. | 0:24:58 | 0:25:02 | |
But did they make the grade with the Dragons? | 0:25:02 | 0:25:04 | |
Surlender and Ross, thank you so much for coming and joining me. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
We are going to watch your pitch. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
It's the sort of thing that sometimes happens - | 0:25:11 | 0:25:12 | |
people bring in products, you just go, | 0:25:12 | 0:25:14 | |
"Is that the worst idea I've ever seen, | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
"or the best idea I've ever seen?" | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
Shall we watch? | 0:25:18 | 0:25:20 | |
-Yes. -Let's. -Let's do it. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:22 | |
Thank you for your time. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:29 | |
What we want to show you today | 0:25:29 | 0:25:31 | |
is something we've created based upon two things - | 0:25:31 | 0:25:34 | |
maths and logic. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:35 | |
If I can show you this... | 0:25:35 | 0:25:38 | |
Would anybody use a pen of this size? | 0:25:38 | 0:25:41 | |
I don't think so. It's not the right-sized tool. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:45 | |
That's a good visual aid. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:47 | |
It was rubbish. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:49 | |
'But here's the thing. | 0:25:49 | 0:25:50 | |
'When you have a child who is five years old, | 0:25:52 | 0:25:54 | |
'they are about 55% the size of us, and when you give them this' | 0:25:54 | 0:25:59 | |
to learn to write with, | 0:25:59 | 0:26:01 | |
to them, it will actually feel like this, because of scale. | 0:26:01 | 0:26:07 | |
'This is the right-sized tool for us, | 0:26:07 | 0:26:10 | |
'and these are the tools' | 0:26:10 | 0:26:12 | |
that we've made. | 0:26:12 | 0:26:13 | |
So, what we have here, essentially, is shorter pencils... | 0:26:17 | 0:26:21 | |
-..to scale. -To scale. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:25 | |
But shorter than normal pencils. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
Not just shorter, because obviously, we've made them... | 0:26:27 | 0:26:29 | |
We thought, "What is the best thing you can make for a child?" | 0:26:29 | 0:26:31 | |
Therefore, we made them with greater diameter, | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
with a slightly thicker core. | 0:26:33 | 0:26:35 | |
We didn't just do this for a laugh - this is... | 0:26:35 | 0:26:38 | |
It makes sense. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:39 | |
-I hear you. -Yeah, it is. -It's logic. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:42 | |
It is logic. It is sense. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:44 | |
Hey, it's logic, it's scale, it's a slightly shorter pencil. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:47 | |
Why wouldn't we do that? | 0:26:47 | 0:26:48 | |
'Why?' | 0:26:51 | 0:26:53 | |
Why do it? | 0:26:53 | 0:26:54 | |
Why would you want to buy different size pencils? | 0:26:54 | 0:26:58 | |
'They don't have the same size shoes, | 0:26:58 | 0:27:00 | |
'they don't have the same size anything, | 0:27:00 | 0:27:02 | |
'and this is a tool, a craftsmanship... | 0:27:02 | 0:27:04 | |
'We forget this - learning to write is a craftsman...' | 0:27:04 | 0:27:06 | |
'I see your salesmanship, but...' | 0:27:06 | 0:27:08 | |
'They are smaller people, Peter.' | 0:27:08 | 0:27:10 | |
'I understand that. But I'm questioning why.' | 0:27:10 | 0:27:14 | |
Everyone at home is thinking that as well, by the way, at this point. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
But we've answered that question in the pitch. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:19 | |
As Surlender said, it's to make learning to write more easy. | 0:27:19 | 0:27:22 | |
It takes six years to learn to write for the average child. Six years. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:25 | |
So if you can improve that speed by...15, 20%? | 0:27:25 | 0:27:29 | |
'In every adult profession, | 0:27:31 | 0:27:32 | |
'where somebody learns a dextrous skill, | 0:27:32 | 0:27:34 | |
'we give them the tools to fit their hands.' | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
All tools fit our hands. They are adult tools. | 0:27:36 | 0:27:39 | |
Yes, but I'm not teaching my five-year-old to be a calligrapher. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
It's not chiming with their business brain, perhaps. | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
I can understand it from their point of view. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:48 | |
You've got these crazy people walking in, saying, | 0:27:48 | 0:27:50 | |
-"We've got small pencils." -Less of the crazy! | 0:27:50 | 0:27:51 | |
Where are the crazy people coming from? | 0:27:51 | 0:27:53 | |
Where is the crazy coming from?! | 0:27:53 | 0:27:55 | |
Very often, you think, "Why hasn't anyone looked at this before?" | 0:27:57 | 0:28:00 | |
-Mm-hm. -It isn't that they haven't looked at it before - | 0:28:00 | 0:28:03 | |
it's that they looked at it and thought it wasn't worthwhile. | 0:28:03 | 0:28:05 | |
There are lots of things, like dog nappies - | 0:28:05 | 0:28:07 | |
why hasn't anybody come up with dog nappies before? | 0:28:07 | 0:28:09 | |
Probably have, decided it wasn't worthwhile. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:11 | |
-That's a good question. -Is it? | 0:28:11 | 0:28:14 | |
Can't you apply that to everything in life? | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
Yeah...otherwise, nobody would ever make anything. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:18 | |
"I don't know why they came in with that. Somebody will have thought of that before." | 0:28:18 | 0:28:22 | |
-Nobody would ever go in with anything. -There would never be another new invention. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:25 | |
They've all been thought of before and it must be wrong. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:28 | |
Nick Jenkins put the first black mark | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
against the petite pencil business proposition. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
I sort of see the point, but I think it's a bit too narrow, | 0:28:34 | 0:28:37 | |
so I'm afraid I'm out. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:39 | |
And soon, three other Dragons also drew a line under the deal. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:43 | |
It's not for me. I'm out. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:45 | |
I'm not going to be investing, I'm afraid. I'm out. | 0:28:46 | 0:28:49 | |
The 50,000 that you're asking for | 0:28:49 | 0:28:53 | |
won't cover the stock, the marketing, the online. | 0:28:53 | 0:28:57 | |
You probably need 500,000. | 0:28:57 | 0:28:58 | |
So, on that basis, I'm out. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
He's right. It is going to take some money to get the brand out there. | 0:29:03 | 0:29:08 | |
But the marketplace is huge. | 0:29:08 | 0:29:09 | |
Children will always have to learn to write, and they always have | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
to learn to write with pencils. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:13 | |
But could Sarah Willingham see the potential market | 0:29:16 | 0:29:18 | |
and put very small pencil to paper on a deal? | 0:29:18 | 0:29:22 | |
Do you know what? I can't work out if this is completely bonkers | 0:29:22 | 0:29:27 | |
or...there is a moment of brilliance where, actually, | 0:29:27 | 0:29:31 | |
marketed right, are you going to get loads of mums | 0:29:31 | 0:29:36 | |
buying lots of different size pens for different age kids? | 0:29:36 | 0:29:41 | |
-This is the...all or nothing. -Yeah. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:45 | |
And this is sort of, probably, the person you want, maybe... | 0:29:45 | 0:29:48 | |
We did, yeah. I always thought... | 0:29:48 | 0:29:50 | |
-Yeah, ideally. -Everyone wants Sarah. -Yeah. -She's got kids. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:53 | |
And I can see mums buying it. | 0:29:53 | 0:29:55 | |
But I just can't see it being mass market, | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
unless there really is concrete evidence that kids | 0:30:02 | 0:30:07 | |
are better off with a smaller pencil, | 0:30:07 | 0:30:10 | |
and I just think it's too big a hurdle, | 0:30:10 | 0:30:12 | |
so I'm afraid it's not an investment for me, so I'm out. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
-'Thanks. -Good luck. -Thank you.' | 0:30:18 | 0:30:20 | |
Do you have any regrets at all about going to the Den? | 0:30:20 | 0:30:23 | |
-Too soon. -Yes. -Maybe too soon. -In the history of the company. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:27 | |
If we'd had the evidence we have got now, about, | 0:30:27 | 0:30:29 | |
you know...from universities, | 0:30:29 | 0:30:32 | |
about how would this mathematically is correct... | 0:30:32 | 0:30:34 | |
-Yes. -If we could have presented that... | 0:30:34 | 0:30:36 | |
I'm still not sure, | 0:30:36 | 0:30:38 | |
but I would have preferred to have been in that position. | 0:30:38 | 0:30:40 | |
So, what has happened since the Den? | 0:30:40 | 0:30:42 | |
Have you moved on with the product? | 0:30:42 | 0:30:44 | |
Yeah, definitely. We've... | 0:30:44 | 0:30:46 | |
We've launched in Dubai and Peru. | 0:30:46 | 0:30:50 | |
-The two big markets! -New Zealand... | 0:30:50 | 0:30:52 | |
-The two big pencil markets. -..and we're in the UK. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:55 | |
We are just signing off deals for South Africa. | 0:30:55 | 0:30:59 | |
But, I have to say, I have genuine sympathy with you. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:02 | |
I do think pencils are incorrectly designed for people's hands. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:05 | |
I've actually got my own product range for the taller gentleman... here. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:10 | |
I've got it... | 0:31:10 | 0:31:12 | |
LAUGHTER It's literally perfect. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:13 | |
So, listen, I'm deeply sympathetic with your plight. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:17 | |
Surlender, Ross, very, very best of luck. | 0:31:17 | 0:31:19 | |
Absolute pleasure to meet you as well. | 0:31:19 | 0:31:20 | |
Thank you so much, thank you. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:22 | |
That's too big, even in your hand. Length does matter. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:26 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:31:26 | 0:31:27 | |
Goodness me! Only time will tell if Ross and Surlender | 0:31:27 | 0:31:30 | |
become the next entrepreneurs to slip through the Dragons' talons. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:35 | |
Like these two classics from the Den archive, | 0:31:37 | 0:31:39 | |
who proved that the Dragons don't always get it right. | 0:31:39 | 0:31:43 | |
The Dragons initially played nicely | 0:31:43 | 0:31:45 | |
when Linkee pitched their new board game. | 0:31:45 | 0:31:48 | |
The aim of the game is to guess the common link | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
between four answers. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:52 | |
So, penguin, taxi and club - can you see a link? | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
-No. -Very nice with a cup of tea? | 0:31:55 | 0:31:58 | |
Penguin biscuit. | 0:31:58 | 0:31:59 | |
-Linkee! -LAUGHTER | 0:31:59 | 0:32:01 | |
But the fun ended when they started talking financials. | 0:32:01 | 0:32:04 | |
What's your turnover so far this year? | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
£2,500. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:08 | |
And it was game over when they revealed | 0:32:08 | 0:32:10 | |
they wanted to take their board game to the small screen. | 0:32:10 | 0:32:13 | |
You are delusional if you think this will go on television, | 0:32:13 | 0:32:15 | |
because the reality is | 0:32:15 | 0:32:17 | |
it's got to be really, really something special. | 0:32:17 | 0:32:20 | |
BUZZER | 0:32:20 | 0:32:21 | |
Wrong answer, Mr Jones. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:22 | |
It was made into a TV programme | 0:32:22 | 0:32:24 | |
and it sold an awful lot of board games, too. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:27 | |
Andy Needham and Dan Cludery offered the Dragons | 0:32:32 | 0:32:35 | |
a stake in their online grocery site, | 0:32:35 | 0:32:37 | |
selling food coming up to its sell-by date. | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
We sell both clearance and regular products | 0:32:41 | 0:32:44 | |
at significantly cheaper prices than the high street. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:47 | |
Deborah had a taste for the business... | 0:32:47 | 0:32:49 | |
There is so much I like about it. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
..but she didn't like it enough. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:53 | |
But I'm sorry, I won't be investing. I'm out. | 0:32:53 | 0:32:55 | |
Oh...what a waste. | 0:32:55 | 0:32:58 | |
That's one you missed out on, Deborah. | 0:33:00 | 0:33:02 | |
So, it appears the Dragons are fallible after all. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:07 | |
But there is one Dragon who is perhaps more prepared | 0:33:07 | 0:33:10 | |
to take a punt on the more...unusual investment opportunities | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
and even break the odd product along the way. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:16 | |
-Touker, sir. -Hi. -Pleasure to have you here. | 0:33:18 | 0:33:21 | |
-My pleasure. -I'm going to say, amongst the Dragons, | 0:33:21 | 0:33:23 | |
I'm going to call you the wild card. | 0:33:23 | 0:33:25 | |
-Would you agree with that? -I'd say I'm a little bit wild card. | 0:33:25 | 0:33:29 | |
If ever there is anything physical to be done in the Den, | 0:33:29 | 0:33:32 | |
you tend to be the first up out of your seat. | 0:33:32 | 0:33:34 | |
I know all about these garments, inside out. | 0:33:36 | 0:33:38 | |
Let the expert have a look. | 0:33:38 | 0:33:40 | |
Wow! 'Ey up, our kid! | 0:33:40 | 0:33:43 | |
-Look at you! -LAUGHTER | 0:33:43 | 0:33:45 | |
ROCK GUITAR SOLO | 0:33:45 | 0:33:48 | |
LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE | 0:33:55 | 0:33:56 | |
Let's go to bed... | 0:33:56 | 0:33:58 | |
-LOUD CRACK -Whoa! | 0:33:58 | 0:34:00 | |
What happened, there? | 0:34:01 | 0:34:02 | |
-You broke the bed. -Oh...sorry! | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
You've set up a number of very, very successful businesses. | 0:34:09 | 0:34:12 | |
You are a very successful businessman. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:14 | |
You are happy to appear to be a figure of fun in some way. | 0:34:14 | 0:34:17 | |
That must work you, somehow. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:20 | |
Does it make people underestimate you, maybe? | 0:34:20 | 0:34:22 | |
Um...I think what it does... | 0:34:22 | 0:34:25 | |
-It makes people feel like I'm a real person. -Mm-hm. | 0:34:26 | 0:34:29 | |
I'm at their level, and it's easy to communicate with me. | 0:34:29 | 0:34:34 | |
And is it also that you really enjoy the process of being in the Den? | 0:34:34 | 0:34:38 | |
It looks like you do. | 0:34:38 | 0:34:39 | |
-Well, I'm there. I might as well have fun with it. -Yeah. | 0:34:40 | 0:34:43 | |
I'm giving away my money, so, on that basis, | 0:34:43 | 0:34:46 | |
let's make the most of it. | 0:34:46 | 0:34:49 | |
Hoping Touker Suleyman was entertained by his product - | 0:34:50 | 0:34:53 | |
and didn't break it - | 0:34:53 | 0:34:54 | |
was this sharp-suited and well-booted entrepreneur. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:58 | |
Next up tonight, Dragons, from his home in Tunbridge Wells, Caner Veli! | 0:34:59 | 0:35:04 | |
Hello, everyone. | 0:35:04 | 0:35:05 | |
Liquiproof produces advanced nanotech coatings | 0:35:07 | 0:35:10 | |
for almost any surface. | 0:35:10 | 0:35:12 | |
We're best known for our innovative | 0:35:12 | 0:35:14 | |
and award-winning footwear protection. | 0:35:14 | 0:35:16 | |
My first impressions of Caner as he walked through the lift door - | 0:35:16 | 0:35:20 | |
he looked like a clean-cut, credible young man. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:23 | |
-His pitch was amazing. -Let me show you how amazing it is. | 0:35:23 | 0:35:27 | |
Shoe under the tap. | 0:35:27 | 0:35:28 | |
Poured cola over it. | 0:35:30 | 0:35:32 | |
Put tomato sauce over it. | 0:35:34 | 0:35:36 | |
-And the grand finale... -Together... | 0:35:36 | 0:35:38 | |
..we can make Liquiproof | 0:35:39 | 0:35:41 | |
a household name. | 0:35:41 | 0:35:43 | |
DRAGONS CHUCKLE | 0:35:43 | 0:35:46 | |
-Thank you. -That's brilliant. | 0:35:46 | 0:35:48 | |
It was real theatre. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:50 | |
I loved it. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:52 | |
The young entrepreneur wanted £100,000 of Dragon cash | 0:35:53 | 0:35:56 | |
and was only offering 5% of his business in return. | 0:35:56 | 0:35:59 | |
That valued his business at...well, you do the maths, but a lot. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:04 | |
I realised it's a common problem that Caner had just solved. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:10 | |
After that demonstration, | 0:36:10 | 0:36:11 | |
I had that tingle inside me and I wanted him to be good. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:15 | |
-Caner Veli, right? -Merhaba. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:19 | |
THEY SPEAK TURKISH | 0:36:19 | 0:36:21 | |
-Are you Turkish? -My father's Turkish Cypriot. | 0:36:22 | 0:36:25 | |
-Turkish Cypriot? -Yeah. -Oh. I'm Turkish Cypriot. | 0:36:25 | 0:36:29 | |
Caner and Touker had bonded in Turkish, | 0:36:29 | 0:36:31 | |
but it takes more than that to prise the cash out of a Dragon, | 0:36:31 | 0:36:34 | |
otherwise we'd all be doing it. | 0:36:34 | 0:36:36 | |
Now the fashion supremo wanted substantial proof | 0:36:36 | 0:36:39 | |
of the waterproofing substance's substance. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:41 | |
It might have been easier to have said that in Turkish. | 0:36:41 | 0:36:44 | |
What patent to you have? | 0:36:46 | 0:36:47 | |
I've partnered with the R&D lab that owns the patent to this, | 0:36:47 | 0:36:53 | |
so I have sole exclusive rights. | 0:36:53 | 0:36:56 | |
So this is not your technology. | 0:36:56 | 0:36:58 | |
What happens if tomorrow they take this and go to somebody else | 0:36:58 | 0:37:02 | |
that's going to really take it worldwide? | 0:37:02 | 0:37:04 | |
Unless you've got the IP, | 0:37:06 | 0:37:08 | |
everyone's just going to sit here and rip you apart. | 0:37:08 | 0:37:11 | |
Have you got your contract here? | 0:37:11 | 0:37:13 | |
So who would like to have a look at this first? | 0:37:13 | 0:37:15 | |
Without owning the intellectual property on the product, | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
Caner had to put all his faith in his licensing agreement. | 0:37:18 | 0:37:23 | |
But surely that would be watertight. | 0:37:23 | 0:37:25 | |
I mean, you wouldn't give it to the Dragons if it wasn't, | 0:37:25 | 0:37:28 | |
would you? | 0:37:28 | 0:37:30 | |
It's not a licensing agreement, it's a distribution agreement, | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
really, that's giving you distribution in certain territories. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:37 | |
Caner's contract was just gibberish. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:40 | |
Did a lawyer write this? | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
-I put the majority of that together personally. -OK. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
And I had it sort of glanced over by a family friend who doesn't... | 0:37:45 | 0:37:50 | |
That's not their expertise. | 0:37:50 | 0:37:53 | |
If you're going to ask for a two million valuation, | 0:37:53 | 0:37:55 | |
spend a couple of grand on your contract. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
Lawyers exist for a reason. | 0:37:58 | 0:37:59 | |
This is the only thing that you have, the only thing. | 0:37:59 | 0:38:02 | |
I've read a lot of legal documents | 0:38:02 | 0:38:04 | |
and I can sniff something bad when I see one. | 0:38:04 | 0:38:06 | |
This isn't a business. Next time you do this, do it properly. | 0:38:06 | 0:38:11 | |
I'm afraid I'm out. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:12 | |
So Nick made his position abundantly clear, | 0:38:14 | 0:38:17 | |
but Dragons aren't sheep. | 0:38:17 | 0:38:19 | |
I'm sure the others wouldn't be influenced by him. | 0:38:19 | 0:38:22 | |
-I'm going to say that I'm out. -I'm out. | 0:38:22 | 0:38:25 | |
You don't really have a business. I'm out. | 0:38:25 | 0:38:27 | |
When all the other Dragons were out, | 0:38:29 | 0:38:32 | |
I realised I was the conductor and I had the floor to myself. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:37 | |
I sell a lot of shirts to a lot of people | 0:38:37 | 0:38:40 | |
in this country and worldwide. | 0:38:40 | 0:38:42 | |
Suits, the same. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
Have you ever worked out what it would cost | 0:38:45 | 0:38:47 | |
-to have this coated on a metre of fabric? -Yes. | 0:38:47 | 0:38:50 | |
-What? -It would work out about 4p. -4p? -Yeah. | 0:38:50 | 0:38:53 | |
I found my moment to make my move. | 0:38:53 | 0:38:55 | |
I'm going to make you an offer. | 0:38:56 | 0:38:58 | |
I like the brand, I like Caner, | 0:39:01 | 0:39:05 | |
but I also realised there's a lot of work to do. | 0:39:05 | 0:39:08 | |
I'll give you all the money for 50%, but it has to be subject to | 0:39:08 | 0:39:13 | |
sorting the contract out properly so that we're all secured. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:17 | |
50% was me weighing up the amount of risk I was taking | 0:39:17 | 0:39:22 | |
and I think it made it worthwhile. | 0:39:22 | 0:39:24 | |
I think Caner probably realised | 0:39:27 | 0:39:28 | |
that he didn't have that much to bargain with. | 0:39:28 | 0:39:31 | |
Actually, what he really had was some enthusiasm | 0:39:31 | 0:39:33 | |
and probably a distribution agreement. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:35 | |
But would Caner be willing to give away 50% of his company, | 0:39:35 | 0:39:40 | |
ten times his original offer? | 0:39:40 | 0:39:42 | |
-Let's do this. -Great, OK. -Well done. -Great. | 0:39:46 | 0:39:49 | |
Am I worth 50%? | 0:39:49 | 0:39:51 | |
Of course I'm worth 50%! | 0:39:51 | 0:39:53 | |
That's a lot of Touker time. | 0:39:53 | 0:39:54 | |
Well, it's a year and a half in normal non-Touker time since Caner | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
and his new business partner shook hands in the Den. | 0:40:00 | 0:40:03 | |
But the reality of the business world | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
is that in the cold, cruel light of day, | 0:40:10 | 0:40:12 | |
due diligence can see deals fall through. | 0:40:12 | 0:40:14 | |
Remember, Touker said he would only sign on the dotted line | 0:40:16 | 0:40:19 | |
if the contract got sorted. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:21 | |
-Hey, Caner. -Hi. How are you doing? -Very, very nice to meet you. | 0:40:24 | 0:40:28 | |
Caner has opened a shop | 0:40:28 | 0:40:30 | |
where customers can get their clothes waterproofed, | 0:40:30 | 0:40:32 | |
hang out with like-minded entrepreneurial types | 0:40:32 | 0:40:35 | |
and, it seems, park their motorbikes in the middle of the carpet. | 0:40:35 | 0:40:40 | |
This is essentially like a teenage boy's perfect office. | 0:40:40 | 0:40:42 | |
But is this just kids' stuff, | 0:40:42 | 0:40:44 | |
or is Caner playing with the grown-ups now | 0:40:44 | 0:40:46 | |
and is Touker actually involved? | 0:40:46 | 0:40:48 | |
This is glamorous shop front, | 0:40:50 | 0:40:51 | |
but where's the bustling corporate headquarters? | 0:40:51 | 0:40:53 | |
-Ah, let me take you through the secret door. -A secret door? | 0:40:53 | 0:40:57 | |
This place gets better and better. | 0:40:57 | 0:40:59 | |
Caner... Oh, dude, look at that. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:01 | |
The last we saw at the end of the Den, I think Touker wanted to | 0:41:04 | 0:41:06 | |
invest but he's saying, "Oh, I don't know about the contracts and stuff," | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
but look - you have an office. | 0:41:09 | 0:41:11 | |
There's people here, there's people everywhere, | 0:41:11 | 0:41:13 | |
so something went right. | 0:41:13 | 0:41:15 | |
So can you tell us - are you and Touker in business? | 0:41:15 | 0:41:18 | |
-We are. -You are? That's good news. -We got there eventually. -Excellent. | 0:41:18 | 0:41:22 | |
I didn't realise how long the due diligence would have taken, | 0:41:22 | 0:41:25 | |
but I went off straight away, got the contract sorted, | 0:41:25 | 0:41:28 | |
got that tightened up, the agreement, | 0:41:28 | 0:41:30 | |
and I was conscious that I had to provide value, | 0:41:30 | 0:41:33 | |
-deliver on what I said in the Den. -And what are the big plans now? | 0:41:33 | 0:41:37 | |
OK, we're working to integrate the technology | 0:41:37 | 0:41:40 | |
into the manufacturing process | 0:41:40 | 0:41:42 | |
of various garments of clothing, shirts. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:44 | |
-So you get shirts that are already Liquiproofed? -Yes, that's it. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:48 | |
-That's clever. -Ah! | 0:41:48 | 0:41:49 | |
That's what you talked about in the Den. | 0:41:49 | 0:41:51 | |
-That's where you could see dollar signs in Touker's eyes? -Yeah. | 0:41:51 | 0:41:54 | |
I am delighted to be in business with Caner. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
He is an entrepreneur to heart. | 0:41:58 | 0:42:02 | |
We're not competitive - I just set the bar for him, | 0:42:02 | 0:42:06 | |
so he can see where he's going. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:08 | |
I'm very confident in Caner | 0:42:08 | 0:42:11 | |
and I'm very confident in the future of the business. | 0:42:11 | 0:42:14 | |
We all know that in their chairs, the Dragons are a formidable, | 0:42:17 | 0:42:21 | |
menacing presence, | 0:42:21 | 0:42:22 | |
but there's another presence in the Den, just as menacing, | 0:42:22 | 0:42:26 | |
just as formidable, | 0:42:26 | 0:42:27 | |
but slightly less argumentative. It's more of... | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
..a listener. | 0:42:31 | 0:42:33 | |
-You can go to the wall, if you want. -The famous wall? -The famous wall. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:37 | |
OK, thank you. | 0:42:37 | 0:42:38 | |
-Can we have a few minutes to have a chat? -Go and talk to the wall. | 0:42:38 | 0:42:42 | |
-It's the wise wall. -I've seen. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:44 | |
When an entrepreneur goes to the back wall, | 0:42:44 | 0:42:47 | |
that's the only time they're in control of the whole Den. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:52 | |
Right, show time, Johnny. | 0:42:52 | 0:42:54 | |
What do you think, buddy? | 0:42:54 | 0:42:55 | |
I don't feel any pressure. I think the pressure is all on them. | 0:42:55 | 0:42:58 | |
See, when they go to the back of the room, I like having a little chat. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:01 | |
Sarah always gives me a little nudge. | 0:43:01 | 0:43:05 | |
(There's no chance he'll accept 20 in a million years, no way.) | 0:43:05 | 0:43:08 | |
We always want to know, we always try and guess. I can't wait. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:11 | |
(I would have gone for 40.) | 0:43:11 | 0:43:13 | |
At that moment, there is definitely a switch in power. | 0:43:13 | 0:43:17 | |
There's definitely a moment of tension there. | 0:43:20 | 0:43:22 | |
INDISTINCT WHISPERING | 0:43:24 | 0:43:27 | |
If the entrepreneur needs to think about it for more than 30 seconds, | 0:43:32 | 0:43:35 | |
I'm not sure I want to be in. | 0:43:35 | 0:43:37 | |
I call the wall a wise wall, but every now and then, | 0:43:39 | 0:43:43 | |
the wall gets it wrong. | 0:43:43 | 0:43:44 | |
It's not a decision we can make now. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:49 | |
We need to have a few drinks with you. | 0:43:49 | 0:43:51 | |
Seriously, Yann, are you for real? | 0:43:51 | 0:43:53 | |
I think you made a big mistake by not choosing me. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:59 | |
He always thinks that. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:00 | |
Mind the trap door. | 0:44:01 | 0:44:03 | |
-Here we go. -But before you get to the wall, | 0:44:05 | 0:44:08 | |
you have to clinch a deal. | 0:44:08 | 0:44:09 | |
Tame you, got to tame you, got to tame you, got to tame you. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:17 | |
When Nick Coleman and Andy Allen walked in with their snack business, | 0:44:17 | 0:44:20 | |
they hoped to add a certain special someone | 0:44:20 | 0:44:22 | |
to their blossoming business bromance. | 0:44:22 | 0:44:25 | |
-Ready? -Ready. | 0:44:25 | 0:44:27 | |
Hello, Dragons. | 0:44:27 | 0:44:28 | |
I'm Nick and I'm here today with my business partner | 0:44:28 | 0:44:30 | |
-and marketing director Andy. -Hello. | 0:44:30 | 0:44:33 | |
We are looking for a £70,000 investment | 0:44:33 | 0:44:36 | |
for a 10% stake of our business, | 0:44:36 | 0:44:38 | |
The Snaffling Pig. | 0:44:38 | 0:44:40 | |
When the lift doors opened and the guys from Snaffling Pig came in | 0:44:40 | 0:44:43 | |
and pulled back the curtains for what they would probably call | 0:44:43 | 0:44:46 | |
the "pig reveal", | 0:44:46 | 0:44:47 | |
-I was excited. -DRUMROLL | 0:44:47 | 0:44:49 | |
We present to you... | 0:44:49 | 0:44:51 | |
..the pork scratching. | 0:44:54 | 0:44:55 | |
DRAGONS CHUCKLE | 0:44:56 | 0:44:58 | |
For over 250 years, this cheeky indulgence of a snack | 0:44:58 | 0:45:03 | |
has been loved by so very many people, | 0:45:03 | 0:45:05 | |
but has remained completely and utterly unchanged, | 0:45:05 | 0:45:08 | |
so we set out two years ago to take this little piggy to markets | 0:45:08 | 0:45:12 | |
he's never been before. | 0:45:12 | 0:45:14 | |
To make that pigging vision a reality... | 0:45:14 | 0:45:16 | |
They were doing piggy play on words and pig puns | 0:45:16 | 0:45:19 | |
and I didn't like that at all. | 0:45:19 | 0:45:21 | |
It turns out he's quite a versatile swine. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:23 | |
Let's make the piggin' magic happen. Thank you. | 0:45:23 | 0:45:26 | |
Puns in the Den? That's my job. | 0:45:26 | 0:45:29 | |
Actually, I think contractually it's my job. Let me check. | 0:45:29 | 0:45:32 | |
PAPERS SHUFFLING Yes, it is. | 0:45:32 | 0:45:35 | |
But pig puns aside, the Dragons had heard the boys talk the talk. | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
Now Nick wanted to find out if they could pork the pork. | 0:45:38 | 0:45:41 | |
Oh, sorry, I'm turning into Peter Jones. | 0:45:42 | 0:45:45 | |
Basically, he just wanted to know about the business. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:48 | |
So tell me, it sounds like you had an amazing first year. | 0:45:51 | 0:45:55 | |
-Yes, absolutely. -So talk me through those numbers. | 0:45:55 | 0:45:58 | |
Year one, which will end in May 2017, | 0:45:58 | 0:46:01 | |
we have projected 2.2 million with a gross of 1.1 million | 0:46:01 | 0:46:04 | |
and a net of 165,000. | 0:46:04 | 0:46:06 | |
Impressive projections and Deborah Meaden | 0:46:08 | 0:46:11 | |
looked as if she might be about to bite. | 0:46:11 | 0:46:13 | |
But hang on - Sarah Willingham was about to add an early twist | 0:46:13 | 0:46:18 | |
to this curly tale. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
Nick, Andy, pork scratchings make me gag, | 0:46:20 | 0:46:22 | |
I don't know where else to go other than that. | 0:46:22 | 0:46:24 | |
I just can't eat them, | 0:46:24 | 0:46:26 | |
so I'm really sorry, I can't, I'm not going to invest, I'm out. | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
And it wasn't to the other Dragons' taste either. | 0:46:31 | 0:46:34 | |
I won't be investing, I'm out. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:35 | |
I'm out. | 0:46:35 | 0:46:37 | |
Pigs might fly, but I can't see you're going to get there, | 0:46:37 | 0:46:40 | |
so I'm going to say that I'm out. | 0:46:40 | 0:46:42 | |
I was quite excited. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:45 | |
I could see it had a really good potential to the business | 0:46:45 | 0:46:49 | |
and I don't particularly want to have any competition or have | 0:46:49 | 0:46:51 | |
to fight over it, so I was quite pleased when they dropped out. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:54 | |
Look, I'm going to make you an offer. | 0:46:54 | 0:46:56 | |
I'm going to make you an offer for all of the money, | 0:46:58 | 0:47:00 | |
but I would want 20% of the business | 0:47:00 | 0:47:04 | |
and that would make it worthwhile. | 0:47:04 | 0:47:06 | |
Thank you very much for the offer. | 0:47:06 | 0:47:08 | |
-Can we go have a chat? -Go and have a chat. -Thank you. | 0:47:08 | 0:47:10 | |
I think this will be the shortest chat in history. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:12 | |
THEY CONFER | 0:47:12 | 0:47:13 | |
There was never a more token talk to the wall | 0:47:13 | 0:47:16 | |
ever seen before in the Den. | 0:47:16 | 0:47:18 | |
I mean, come on, you've got Mr Moonpig with scratchings. | 0:47:18 | 0:47:21 | |
They're made for each other. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:23 | |
I wanted the deal and I was pretty confident I was going to get it. | 0:47:23 | 0:47:25 | |
The only question was whether | 0:47:25 | 0:47:27 | |
they were going to fight back on the terms, | 0:47:27 | 0:47:29 | |
-which they did. -We really believe in where this product's going to go, | 0:47:29 | 0:47:33 | |
but what we'd like to do is put our money where our mouth is. | 0:47:33 | 0:47:36 | |
-So what we'd like to do is offer you the 20% today. -Yep. | 0:47:36 | 0:47:38 | |
But we'd like the chance to be able to buy back your shares | 0:47:38 | 0:47:41 | |
at today's market rates | 0:47:41 | 0:47:42 | |
in 18 months' time once we hit our sales and our profit projections | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
-back to ten. -Back to ten? -Yes. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:48 | |
In 18 months? | 0:47:50 | 0:47:52 | |
-18 months. -18 months. -Then it's a deal. | 0:47:52 | 0:47:53 | |
-Yes! -The pigs have merged, here we go. | 0:47:53 | 0:47:56 | |
-Excellent, thank you. -I was quite happy to accept that, | 0:47:57 | 0:47:59 | |
because if you give someone a limited timeframe to buy back | 0:47:59 | 0:48:03 | |
some of their shares, | 0:48:03 | 0:48:04 | |
it creates quite a lot of pressure on them to perform. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:07 | |
-Thank you. -DEBORAH: -Fantastic. -Yes! | 0:48:08 | 0:48:11 | |
You're two chuffed little piglets, aren't you? | 0:48:11 | 0:48:13 | |
-LAUGHTER -This little piggy has gone to market. | 0:48:13 | 0:48:17 | |
They're great guys, they know what they're doing | 0:48:17 | 0:48:19 | |
and it's a good business. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:21 | |
I certainly don't think it's one of the "rasher" investments | 0:48:21 | 0:48:24 | |
in my "porkfolio". | 0:48:24 | 0:48:26 | |
Oh, Nick, you let yourself down there. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:28 | |
Five months on and the pig skin kingpins | 0:48:31 | 0:48:34 | |
are still very much in business | 0:48:34 | 0:48:35 | |
with their Moonpig patron and their plans to take over the snack world | 0:48:35 | 0:48:39 | |
in full operation. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:41 | |
So this is where we do all of our packing and send out parcels | 0:48:41 | 0:48:43 | |
all across the country. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:45 | |
All the magic happens in this one little place. | 0:48:45 | 0:48:47 | |
Except our office - we have no desk. | 0:48:47 | 0:48:50 | |
We spent all the money on the warehouse. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:52 | |
Just two days ago, they moved into this new warehouse. | 0:48:54 | 0:48:57 | |
It's three times bigger than their last one | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
and was masterminded by Nick Jenkins himself. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:01 | |
So one of the things we've been able to do is look at their warehousing | 0:49:03 | 0:49:05 | |
and restructure that. | 0:49:05 | 0:49:07 | |
It's now in 1,200 pubs across the UK | 0:49:07 | 0:49:10 | |
and we're talking to various chains about rolling it out next year. | 0:49:10 | 0:49:14 | |
I think this business is going to be a great success. | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
So their Dragon huffed and puffed | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
and the cash rolled in. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:21 | |
But let's remind ourselves of two businesses where it didn't. | 0:49:23 | 0:49:26 | |
They left the Den empty-handed. | 0:49:26 | 0:49:28 | |
The Dragons found Marco Hajikypri's valuation hard to swallow | 0:49:29 | 0:49:33 | |
when he presented them with his bespoke fitness food concept. | 0:49:33 | 0:49:36 | |
Where do you get that this is worth £2.5 million? | 0:49:38 | 0:49:41 | |
If I gave you £2.5 million to buy this brand off you today... | 0:49:41 | 0:49:44 | |
I wouldn't sell it. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:46 | |
You'd be mad. | 0:49:46 | 0:49:47 | |
I wouldn't be mad. | 0:49:47 | 0:49:48 | |
-Surely you'd go and sit on a beach and smoke your cigar? -No way. | 0:49:48 | 0:49:51 | |
That's not enough for me to smoke cigars. | 0:49:51 | 0:49:54 | |
-I need 20 million minimum. -What?! | 0:49:54 | 0:49:56 | |
Well, he still hasn't got to that beach, | 0:49:57 | 0:49:59 | |
but his business hasn't stopped delivering since. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:02 | |
The Dragons couldn't believe their eyes or their ears | 0:50:07 | 0:50:10 | |
when Yann Morvan and Richard Lee | 0:50:10 | 0:50:12 | |
pitched their air drumming percussion kit. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:15 | |
DRUMBEAT, LAUGHTER | 0:50:15 | 0:50:18 | |
Despite offers from two Dragons, | 0:50:18 | 0:50:20 | |
others wanted to drum home just how much they didn't like it. | 0:50:20 | 0:50:24 | |
-It's a gimmick. -No, it's not! | 0:50:24 | 0:50:26 | |
What is it, then? | 0:50:26 | 0:50:27 | |
It's a musical instrument. | 0:50:27 | 0:50:29 | |
How can you call a musical instrument a gimmick? | 0:50:29 | 0:50:31 | |
But, drumroll, please. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:33 | |
DRUMROLL | 0:50:33 | 0:50:35 | |
Whilst a gimmick may not go down well in the Den, | 0:50:40 | 0:50:43 | |
DIY products often do. | 0:50:43 | 0:50:45 | |
-Good luck. -Yeah. | 0:50:49 | 0:50:51 | |
The final entrepreneurs to reflect on their Den encounter | 0:50:51 | 0:50:55 | |
are Martin Chard and Jenny David. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:56 | |
When they entered the Den, | 0:50:56 | 0:50:58 | |
they had no idea that their lives were about to change forever. | 0:50:58 | 0:51:01 | |
Everyday things I tend to stumble a lot on, | 0:51:01 | 0:51:04 | |
simple things that everybody can do, | 0:51:04 | 0:51:06 | |
so I've spent my whole life feeling stupid. | 0:51:06 | 0:51:09 | |
This is it, this is what you want. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:11 | |
But did they go from pitch to rich? | 0:51:11 | 0:51:13 | |
Martin and Jenny, thank you so much for coming and joining us here. | 0:51:14 | 0:51:17 | |
I think your pitch was my favourite pitch of the entire last series. | 0:51:17 | 0:51:22 | |
We'll see why in a moment, but shall we take a little look? | 0:51:22 | 0:51:25 | |
-Thank you, yeah. -Excellent. | 0:51:25 | 0:51:26 | |
I describe myself as dyslexic with a sprinkle of Asperger's. | 0:51:33 | 0:51:37 | |
People often say I think outside the box - | 0:51:37 | 0:51:39 | |
the truth is, I never had the box in the first place. | 0:51:39 | 0:51:42 | |
People at home are going, | 0:51:44 | 0:51:45 | |
"Please be good, please be good," after that start. | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
-We were so nervous at that point. -Oh, my goodness. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:51 | |
Like jumping out of a plane. | 0:51:51 | 0:51:53 | |
I've been working for many years now as a building maintenance engineer | 0:51:53 | 0:51:57 | |
and often have to put up lots of shelves, | 0:51:57 | 0:51:59 | |
fixtures and fittings throughout the day | 0:51:59 | 0:52:01 | |
and found that it could be quite frustrating | 0:52:01 | 0:52:03 | |
marking where to drill the hole positions. | 0:52:03 | 0:52:05 | |
This is the Marxman. You simply hold the bracket where you want to, | 0:52:09 | 0:52:14 | |
you simply push it in the hole... | 0:52:14 | 0:52:16 | |
..and it will spray a burst of green chalk showing you where to drill. | 0:52:18 | 0:52:22 | |
Martin had survived the product demonstration, | 0:52:27 | 0:52:29 | |
but would he survive a textbook Den grilling from Peter Jones? | 0:52:29 | 0:52:34 | |
-Why wouldn't you just use a Sharpie? -Oh, Peter. | 0:52:35 | 0:52:38 | |
-Because it doesn't... -It dries out and it clogs and it doesn't last. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:45 | |
Is every plumber going to want to spend £10 | 0:52:45 | 0:52:49 | |
on something where it's cost them 20p? | 0:52:49 | 0:52:52 | |
Yes. | 0:52:53 | 0:52:54 | |
You've really got to like the invention, haven't you, then? | 0:52:54 | 0:52:57 | |
No, no, I completely disagree, | 0:52:57 | 0:52:59 | |
because we sell in Wickes roughly 57 a day. | 0:52:59 | 0:53:03 | |
You think that's good? | 0:53:03 | 0:53:06 | |
I think that's excellent. | 0:53:06 | 0:53:08 | |
That took a lot of guts from both of you. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:12 | |
Yeah, yeah, it did. We're not normally gutsy people, | 0:53:12 | 0:53:15 | |
but we know the product well. | 0:53:15 | 0:53:17 | |
Also, it's the dream. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:19 | |
We've worked really hard to get this far | 0:53:19 | 0:53:21 | |
to be told that it's a Sharpie - it's definitely not a Sharpie. | 0:53:21 | 0:53:24 | |
So you sold them 13,000. At how much? | 0:53:26 | 0:53:29 | |
The recommended retail price is £9.95. | 0:53:29 | 0:53:32 | |
-And what was your investment to get to here so far? -About 100 grand. | 0:53:34 | 0:53:37 | |
-How much?! -About 150-ish. -100,000? -Yes. -Yeah. | 0:53:37 | 0:53:40 | |
You put your whole life behind this? | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
-Yes. -Yeah. | 0:53:49 | 0:53:50 | |
So this is the point where it could all go wrong. | 0:53:53 | 0:53:55 | |
We did think it might go wrong at this point. | 0:53:55 | 0:53:57 | |
Is that what you think in your head? You're thinking, | 0:53:57 | 0:53:59 | |
-"Oh, man, we're going to be one of those pitches." -Yes. | 0:53:59 | 0:54:02 | |
It is too expensive at the moment. | 0:54:02 | 0:54:04 | |
You don't want people to think. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:06 | |
You want people to be at that till thinking, "Oh, that's good." | 0:54:06 | 0:54:10 | |
I certainly think we could get that made at a much better price. | 0:54:10 | 0:54:13 | |
Watching at home, you're suddenly thinking, | 0:54:13 | 0:54:15 | |
"Oh! WE can, can we, Deborah?" | 0:54:15 | 0:54:17 | |
How would you feel about somebody running the business for you | 0:54:17 | 0:54:21 | |
with you developing product? How would you feel about that? | 0:54:21 | 0:54:24 | |
That would be our dream. | 0:54:24 | 0:54:25 | |
Because I like it. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:28 | |
Good. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:30 | |
I'm going to make you an offer. | 0:54:32 | 0:54:34 | |
I'm going to offer you all of the money. | 0:54:36 | 0:54:39 | |
I want 30% of the business, | 0:54:41 | 0:54:42 | |
because I'm basically going to do the business bit for you, | 0:54:42 | 0:54:46 | |
so that's my offer to you. | 0:54:46 | 0:54:48 | |
HE CHUCKLES | 0:54:49 | 0:54:51 | |
-You could have blown me away at that point. -Really? | 0:54:51 | 0:54:53 | |
-Cos that turned round quite quickly. -Yeah, it really did. | 0:54:53 | 0:54:56 | |
It was on a dime. | 0:54:56 | 0:54:58 | |
The heart now is definitely starting to skip a little bit. | 0:54:58 | 0:55:02 | |
Now all I'm thinking is, "Don't spoil it." | 0:55:02 | 0:55:05 | |
The only spoiling to be done was from the other Dragons... | 0:55:05 | 0:55:08 | |
I'm going to match Deborah's offer. | 0:55:08 | 0:55:10 | |
-Thank you. -..spoiling for a fight to get their hands on the product. | 0:55:12 | 0:55:16 | |
I'm very willing to make you an offer | 0:55:16 | 0:55:20 | |
for half the money for 15%. | 0:55:20 | 0:55:22 | |
I can't not make you an offer. | 0:55:22 | 0:55:24 | |
Half of the money with another Dragon. | 0:55:25 | 0:55:28 | |
So four Dragons in. | 0:55:28 | 0:55:30 | |
Were we about to see that rarest of things, | 0:55:30 | 0:55:33 | |
the full house? | 0:55:33 | 0:55:35 | |
Or the full Den, to be precise. | 0:55:35 | 0:55:37 | |
Suddenly you've got four of them. | 0:55:37 | 0:55:39 | |
-Yeah. -It was incredible. -It is incredible. -More than we could... | 0:55:39 | 0:55:43 | |
-It's what you dreamed of. -Yeah. | 0:55:43 | 0:55:45 | |
Obviously, the only other one left is Peter Jones | 0:55:45 | 0:55:47 | |
and for him to make an offer after what he said, | 0:55:47 | 0:55:49 | |
surely he wouldn't have... | 0:55:49 | 0:55:51 | |
Surely he wouldn't have the brass balls to make you an offer. | 0:55:51 | 0:55:56 | |
Surely Peter wouldn't. | 0:55:56 | 0:55:58 | |
You've done well, haven't you? | 0:56:00 | 0:56:02 | |
-It seems so. -Yeah. | 0:56:02 | 0:56:03 | |
-I liked him then. -Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:56:05 | 0:56:07 | |
So I'm going to offer you all of the money as well... | 0:56:09 | 0:56:12 | |
..but I'm only going to ask for 25%. | 0:56:18 | 0:56:21 | |
-Oh, Peter! -Mm-hm! | 0:56:21 | 0:56:24 | |
We now need to talk to the wall. | 0:56:27 | 0:56:29 | |
He's undercut all the others and now you've got a choice to make. | 0:56:30 | 0:56:33 | |
-Yes. -Yep. | 0:56:33 | 0:56:34 | |
Yes. | 0:56:34 | 0:56:36 | |
Got our dream. | 0:56:36 | 0:56:37 | |
Um... | 0:56:43 | 0:56:44 | |
..Deborah, we'd very much like to accept your offer. | 0:56:46 | 0:56:48 | |
-Yes! -Whoa! -Oh, I'm so pleased! | 0:56:48 | 0:56:51 | |
I wanted to jump up and down at that point. | 0:56:51 | 0:56:54 | |
-The right decision, in my opinion. -Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:56:54 | 0:56:56 | |
I'm so pleased because I'm sitting there trying not to look excited, | 0:56:56 | 0:57:00 | |
cos I don't want to tell them how excited I am. | 0:57:00 | 0:57:03 | |
-I wanted to hug her at that point. -Aww! | 0:57:03 | 0:57:06 | |
Brilliant. | 0:57:06 | 0:57:07 | |
Oh, my God! | 0:57:11 | 0:57:13 | |
Here it goes. | 0:57:13 | 0:57:15 | |
You said at the beginning that you wanted to go in there | 0:57:16 | 0:57:18 | |
because you wanted to feel proud of yourself, | 0:57:18 | 0:57:21 | |
to look yourself in the mirror | 0:57:21 | 0:57:22 | |
and I would suggest you should be proud of yourself. | 0:57:22 | 0:57:24 | |
Has that happened? Can you look yourself in the mirror now? | 0:57:24 | 0:57:27 | |
Definitely. I definitely feel proud of this, I feel proud of us. | 0:57:27 | 0:57:32 | |
Yeah, the family feel proud. Just lovely, yeah. | 0:57:32 | 0:57:34 | |
It really has made a nice change. | 0:57:34 | 0:57:36 | |
-Listen, it's been such a pleasure to meet you both. -Thank you. | 0:57:36 | 0:57:39 | |
Congratulations, it's just such a wonderful pitch and I wish you | 0:57:39 | 0:57:42 | |
-nothing but luck in the future. -Thank you very much. -Thank you. | 0:57:42 | 0:57:45 | |
So, there we have it. | 0:57:58 | 0:57:59 | |
Now, as this is the BBC, | 0:57:59 | 0:58:01 | |
we're going to have to pretend that we've learned something, | 0:58:01 | 0:58:03 | |
so what have we learned? | 0:58:03 | 0:58:06 | |
Well, walls really do have ears, | 0:58:06 | 0:58:08 | |
pig products can fly, | 0:58:08 | 0:58:09 | |
and you can make a small fortune | 0:58:09 | 0:58:11 | |
taping a loo brush to the end of a plastic bottle. | 0:58:11 | 0:58:13 | |
Of course! | 0:58:13 | 0:58:14 | |
All valuable lessons, but we've also learned | 0:58:14 | 0:58:17 | |
that if you've got a good idea, | 0:58:17 | 0:58:19 | |
you back it up with hard work and with passion, | 0:58:19 | 0:58:22 | |
the Dragons might just invest and take you from pitch to rich. | 0:58:22 | 0:58:26 |