Browse content similar to 09/03/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
Some decent news from Greece at last. But there's plenty more pain | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
to come. Athens has reached agreement with most of their | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
private creditors, to write off billions of pounds of debt, which | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
triggers more bailout money from Europe and the IMF. But Greek debts | :00:55. | :01:02. | |
are still gigantic, and even more austerity looms. | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
Plans to speed up the adoption process for thousands of children | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
are to be announced by David Cameron, including making it easier | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
for white couples to adopt black children. We'll get the details | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
from the Children's Minister. More protests are expected in | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
Russia this weekend, against Vladimir Putin's election victory. | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
We'll get the thoughts of a former Foreign Secretary and a former | :01:24. | :01:32. | |
British Ambassador to Moscow. And, find out why the European | :01:32. | :01:42. | |
:01:42. | :01:43. | ||
Commission has got into hot water All that in the next hour. And I | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
also bring you good news. According to the papers, it turns out spring | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
is here ten days early! The birds are singing, the trees are | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
blossoming, and the daffs are almost out. And I'm pleased to say, | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
that keeping me company in the studio this lunchtime, are two | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
spring chickens. James Delingpole, who tells us in the Telegraph today | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
that he still has the energy to do manly things, like swim freezing | :02:08. | :02:15. | |
Welsh rivers. And the former Observer political editor, Gaby | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
Hinsliff. We're not sure whether she's prepared to swim a Welsh | :02:18. | :02:26. | |
river or not. I have never been prepared to swim | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
a Welsh river, even when I was young. Let's start with the news | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
that the Greek government has announced it's reached a deal with | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
most of its creditors to accept steep losses, staving off an | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
official credit event default, and paving the way for the next round | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
of European and IMF bailout money. Speaking earlier today, the Greek | :02:45. | :02:54. | |
:02:55. | :02:56. | ||
Finance Minister said this. TRANSLATION: We can't have an | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
investment friendly country and job creation without having a banking | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
mechanism which supports investment. All these things should happen for | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
us to have total success in private sector involvement. We should agree | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
this is the only way to put the country back on its feet and give | :03:14. | :03:21. | |
it a second historic and much- needed chance. | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
The man who hopes to be the next Greek Prime Minister. They have | :03:26. | :03:34. | |
done this deal. Debt in Greece now falls to 160% of GDP. They now have | :03:34. | :03:41. | |
to do spending cuts equivalent to 20% of GDP. Last year, the economy | :03:41. | :03:48. | |
declined by 7% of GDP. And 50% of young Greeks are now unemployed. So, | :03:48. | :03:55. | |
job done!? I would say this is a classic example of kicking the can | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
down the road. If we think of this financial crisis in World War II | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
terms, will probably end the phoney war stage. We have a long way to go | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
before this is resolved and it won't be resolved by delaying it. | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
We have to face up to reality. Greece will eventually lead the | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
eurozone. Absolutely no question. rough time scale? If I could do | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
that I would be making a lot of money on options. I thought you | :04:25. | :04:32. | |
did! Her I lost the last time... lot of the more hard headed | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
commentators are saying this is in itself an achievement to get all of | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
these private creditors to take a massive haircut, avoid an official | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
default. But look at the pain to come. It is better than a messy | :04:49. | :04:59. | |
:04:59. | :05:03. | ||
collapse right now. The suggestion from Christine Lagarde that it is | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
spring-like. This is a British type of spring where it is snowing one | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
minute, sunny the next. It is quite remarkable, the pain that the | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
European elite is prepared to inflict on people, to keep the | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
project on the road. There is a massive political constitutional | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
question. All this pain being inflicted on Greece from outside, | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
on a country which doesn't have its own elected government. That has | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
been pushed back. For Greeks, the historical suspicion of Germans | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
anyway, this is painful. At the same time, if you look at the | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
opinion surveys and the Greeks have persuaded themselves that the euro | :05:52. | :05:59. | |
is somehow good for them. I can't see that lasting. I would say one | :05:59. | :06:06. | |
thing. Keep your eye on Portugal. That could be next in the frame. A | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
diplomatic row is brewing with Italy, over the tragic deaths of an | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
Italian and a Briton, after a failed attempt to rescue them in | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
Nigeria. Politicians in Rome have been demanding to know why their | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
government wasn't consulted on the military operation, and why they | :06:19. | :06:27. | |
were only informed once the action was taking place. We can speak now | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
to our political correspondent, Iain Watson. | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
He has been getting briefings. A general question, bring us up today | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
on what we now know about this operation? | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
Some of the details are not clear. I had a briefing for an hour with | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
the Prime Minister's spokesman. He said some of the details are yet to | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
emerge, he didn't want to give inaccurate information. What is | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
clear is that the two hostages were killed in an operation which went | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
on for some hours, as many as six or seven hours. That the British | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
Prime Minister David Cameron gave his authorisation but the Italian | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
Prime Minister was not asked for his authorisation at the same time. | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
We have been told, I quote, from Downing Street, there have been | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
close contacts with the Italians over nine months. It was always the | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
case that a rescue operation was an option, but the Italians were | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
conducted after the operation got under way, because it was a fast | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
moving situation and they were responding to advice from what was | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
happening on the ground. That is the official explanation from | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
Downing Street. But the Italian government is saying this was | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
inexplicable, and they want to get further clarification. What was | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
interesting, in this long briefing, some a bit no clearer than we were | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
last night. Apparently, no formal complaint has been lodged with the | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
British Government by the Italians over how this was handled, no | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
complaint was made to David Cameron when he spoke to Mario Monti last | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
night. And Britain has offered simply an explanation, not an | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
apology. So will there be a diplomatic row between Rome and | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
London? Have we established from both Rome and London that the | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
British and Nigerians went ahead, without informing the Italians? Is | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
that now agreed on bedsides? That is agreed on their sides. It is | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
clearly the case, what Downing Street has emphasised, this was a | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
Nigerian led operation. But David Cameron was asked for his | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
authorisation. The Italians were asked on a government to government | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
basis after the operation got under way. The reason for that appears to | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
be, as we are being told off the record, perhaps the hostages were | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
felt to be in grave and imminent danger, and the events were fast | :09:07. | :09:16. | |
moving. Then, we get into really questions of politics and diplomacy. | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
If a rescue operation was always a possibility, did the Italians at | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
any stage attempt to veto it? I am told they didn't. Could they have | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
vetoed it when it went under way? I was told that might not have been | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
possible had they tried. In fact, they didn't do so and again I have | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
been told, if this was the other way around, if the British had been | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
told after the operation got under way, rest assured British | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
politicians would be kicking up a fuss. There is an understanding in | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
diplomatic terms. You described it, I know the Nigerians were involved. | :09:55. | :10:01. | |
You described it as a Nigerian led operation. Does that mean that the | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
Nigerians were first in? Or, where British special forces the | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
spearhead? We do not know that. On five separate occasions, we asked | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
the prime ministers spokesman, he repeated the phrase, this was a | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
Nigerian led operation, but did not give any details whether British | :10:22. | :10:29. | |
forces arrived first. From what I have been picking up, it seems that, | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
for some time, there was some information where the hostages were | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
being held, and fears they may be in imminent danger if the cat has | :10:40. | :10:49. | |
:10:50. | :11:00. | ||
knew the whereabouts had been exposed -- -- the captors. | :11:00. | :11:09. | |
Thanks for joining us on that. A lot still unknown here. | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
Barack Obama. You have to be lucky in these things, taking these | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
difficult decisions. Barack Obama got it right. David Cameron was | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
unlucky and it turned out wrong. And that is part of leadership. We | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
saw it with the deaths of the six soldiers in Afghanistan, one of the | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
worst things about being a Prime Minster when you take decisions | :11:29. | :11:37. | |
which leads to the death of your citizens. You don't launch a | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
scrambled rescue mission unless you take a chance. | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
Parents of the victims, that seems to be their attitude in their agony | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
as well. The promise to was giving some | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
interviews in an entirely unrelated matter yesterday afternoon. I am | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
told by the people there, that this had got to him, he was devastated | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
by the failure. I do not think he could have done much else. There | :12:07. | :12:13. | |
are two main terrorist types in Nigeria. One of them is the type | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
that kidnaps boiled eggs it is, for ransom, let them free. This is | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
different. These are Islamist terrorists with a track record, | :12:22. | :12:28. | |
they killed 40 people in a church on Christmas Day, 20 more people in | :12:28. | :12:34. | |
a bomb. They have a record of killing people. David Cameron could | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
have done no other. Not a good week for Britain given the events in | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
Afghanistan. Later today, David Cameron will promise to tackle what | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
he calls the "absurd barriers to mixed-race adoption", when he | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
announces proposals to speed up the process. Under the plans, local | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
authorities will be required to reduce delays, and not slow the | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
process down by trying to find the perfect match. However, Matt | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
Dunkley, the head of the Association of Directors of | :12:57. | :13:07. | |
:13:07. | :13:11. | ||
Children's Services, said that it's a difficult balancing act. | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
Adoption is always complex because it has to revolve around the needs | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
of the child. Finding a permanent home, changing the child's identity. | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
You have to be very sure that the parents you are matching with the | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
child are right for that child. Sometimes, you have to balance | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
various factors to decide whether the quickest option is the best or | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
whether you should wait longer for a family that would be a better | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
match. It is not straightforward and each child's needs are | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
individual. It is a complicated process. We can now speak to the | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
Children's Minster, Tim Loughton, who's in Brighton. | :13:50. | :13:57. | |
Thank you for joining us. Just summarise for our viewers what the | :13:57. | :14:04. | |
major changes are going to be? We have been working on adoption | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
for the past 18 months and next week we will publish a | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
comprehensive adoption action plan. What David Cameron will detailed | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
this afternoon is three particular things. Largely around the issue of | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
delay. The first is delayed is a very important factor when the | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
place children for adoption and the longer you delay, the more damage | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
it can do to those children and the less likely that option is to | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
succeed. In too many cases, social workers seem to be waiting for that | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
perfect match, would it be an ethnic, cultural or racial match, | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
and those children are staying in care. That is damaging. We need to | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
improve the law to say the most important thing for finding a | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
placement foray child for whom adoption is the right course, is to | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
find a safe, loving, stable family. If we can find a perfect ethnic | :14:59. | :15:07. | |
match, that is perfect but it should not be used as an excuse. | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
What do you say to some of the professionals in this part of the | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
public service, that the reason for delay is often because these are | :15:16. | :15:22. | |
sensitive issues, they are complicated issues as well. And | :15:22. | :15:32. | |
:15:32. | :15:32. | ||
I agree with that. They are very complicated dishes. Matt Dunkley | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
has been working closely with us on this. The most important | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
consideration must be the best interests for the child. We think | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
we cannot compromise the quality of the placements for a larger number | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
of children who we think would benefit from adoption by speeding | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
up the system. It is taking far too long and it is far too bureaucratic. | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
We are deterring too many prospective adopters, who could all | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
her children homes. In the care system, there are | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
disproportionately black kids in particular, three times less likely | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
than white kids to get adopted. When they are adopted, it takes | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
twice as long to get them adopted. That is not fair, and it is not | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
acceptable. We have to go reds of some of this political correctness. | :16:23. | :16:31. | |
-- get rid of it. Is it your view that adoption services go out of | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
their way to avoid placing a black kid with a white family? I think | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
there is a bit of a hangover of that culture, going back many years. | :16:42. | :16:49. | |
The vast majority of Social Workers, working in the Children's Services | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
department have the best interests of children at heart and are doing | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
a good job. But we see huge differentials between different | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
local authorities and adoption agencies in how good they are at | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
adopting children and how long it takes. The key point of what we're | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
trying to achieve is trying to speed up the system in terms of | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
finding appropriate families and identifying children when adoption | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
is the best option, and getting the system to work better in the | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
interests of the child. The children should not be left in | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
limbo because the system is cumbersome. Stick with us and we | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
will get some reaction from our guests. What is your take on this? | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
I do not think anyone wants to see children in care longer than they | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
have to be. It is ridiculous that it can take two and a half years | :17:35. | :17:41. | |
from start to finish. You have to be careful not to throw the baby | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
out of -- out with the bath water, to coin an appropriate phrase. That | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
period of delay is not always about safeguarding the child, sometimes | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
it is about knowing that the parents are to coping with what | :17:54. | :18:00. | |
they have to copy -- cope with, perhaps taking a six year-old who | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
might be very damaged back home with them. They have extensive mean | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
sometimes. Finding families that cope with that is important. We do | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
not want to end up in a place where the adoptions break down more | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
regularly because there speedier. think the Minister was being very | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
diplomatic. -- they are speedier. This is a rare case of | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
Conservative-led coalition having the courage of its convictions and | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
taking on one of the great shibboleths of the left-liberal | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
establishment, which is this ludicrous notion that it is better | :18:33. | :18:40. | |
to leave a black child without a loving family because of this | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
theory, this bankrupt theory that somehow skin colour is more | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
important than finding a fat -- finding a happy home. Are you being | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
diplomatic, look Minister? I am always diplomatic, Andrew, but I am | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
not concerned with political ideology. I am concerned with | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
getting a better deal for children in care, and I think many more of | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
them could benefit from the stability and love that comes with | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
a decent adoptive placement. have 65,000 children in care at the | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
moment. If your reforms go through, will we see that number fall | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
substantially? I do not know. The numbers of children coming into | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
care has been going up. We must remember that the great majority of | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
those children are there temporarily and will return to | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
their families. The number of children that I would like to see | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
adopted, it is more than the 3050 who got adopted last year, and that | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
number was down on the year before. I will not set any targets because | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
this is all about getting the best deal for each individual child. The | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
each have different circumstances. We believe that we can get better | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
quality placements, more people coming in and offering a home to a | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
child. That is a big ass, particularly with kids from | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
difficult backgrounds, kids who are not getting picked up at the moment. | :20:05. | :20:12. | |
We can do it quicker. Two months is 1% of a child's's childhood. All | :20:12. | :20:19. | |
the evidence says that the sooner you can get a child adopted a, the | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
more likely they are to have a successful adoption and a happy | :20:22. | :20:32. | |
:20:32. | :20:34. | ||
childhood. Thank you for joining us. Now, in under a couple of months, | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
voters in 10 towns and cities across England would get to vote on | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
whether they want a directly elected mayor. According to polling | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
produced by two regions, many of them do not know a thing about it. | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
In Birmingham, 59% of those polled said they did not know there was a | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
referendum. Even though it was the first time many of them had heard | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
of it, more than half thought that Birmingham should have a directly | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
elected mayor. Although you might take this with a pinch of salt | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
given the usual low turnout in local elections, 74% said that they | :21:11. | :21:18. | |
planned to vote. Our West Midlands political reporter joins us now | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
from Westminster where she is visiting. It is good to see when | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
London. What is the mood like in Birmingham? -- see you in London. | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
When you go out on the streets and ask people whether they want an | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
elected mayor, they look at you with confusion. In my experience, | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
they do not seem to know that this is happening. And then, when you | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
explain it, they say they like the idea of having a porous in | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
Birmingham. But the figures of the poll certainly suggest that that | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
may be the case, not just anecdotally but wider afield. Six | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
out of 10 people in Birmingham do not know this is happening. 54% are | :21:57. | :22:06. | |
saying that they would vote for an elected mayor, but 23% say no and | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
23 say that they do not care. sounds like if you know you're for | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
it, and by definition if you do not know, you will not float, it looks | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
like this could go through and Birmingham. -- you will not vote. | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
The feeling you would get from the findings of this poll, and in terms | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
of the campaigns we have seen, the Yes campaign has been very vocal. | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
They are holding debates left, right and centre. There is one in | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
Birmingham later this evening. All of these debates are going on, and | :22:37. | :22:45. | |
the no campaign, they have an interesting name, they're called | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
"Vote No to power." They think the idea is been shot down people's | :22:49. | :22:57. | |
throats. The Yes campaign is being pushed ahead. -- shoved down. They | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
have more influence in terms of people being interested in this | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
subject. When you ask people about it, they tell you that, yeah, be | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
like the idea of leaders have been more power. The real question is | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
whether they will have the powers that Boris has, because we do not | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
know what powers an elected mayor in Birmingham would have. I think | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
you better go and ask that question. In Yorkshire, voters will be asked | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
if they want a mayor in Bradford, Doncaster, Leeds, Sheffield and | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
Wakefield. According to the poll, 62%, even higher than Birmingham, | :23:32. | :23:39. | |
had no Whitey about the vote on May 3rd. Again, there was a fair bit of | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
support for the principle of directly-elected mayors. -- had no | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
idea. As in Birmingham, a big proportion said they intended to | :23:47. | :23:56. | |
vote. Seven de 1%, more than a general election. It appears that | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
turnout -- it beats the turnout for the AV referendum and the last | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
local elections. James Vincent is in Leeds. As in Birmingham, if you | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
know about it, you seem to be in favour of it. It is strange. When | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
you don't speak to people in Yorkshire, they think may has have | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
chains around their neck and open up garden festivals. It has been | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
interesting to explain what an elected mayor actually has to | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
people. To say that 60% of people did not know about the referendum, | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
actually 90% of people here say they have been given little or no | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
information about the referendum whatsoever. There is an admission | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
from the Government to explain exactly what they mean, and why | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
they want cities to go for them. The problem they have in places | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
like Sheffield, the politicians do not want it. Both sides, Labour and | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
Lib Dem councillors agree that they do not want an elected mayor. It is | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
one of the very few things they agree about. Thank you for that. | :24:59. | :25:08. | |
Very interesting. I felt as if I was back on Nationwide again. Let's | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
go back to London for some context with Tony Travers, visiting | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
Professor at the London School of Economics and the man we turn to on | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
matters to do with local government. Do you get the feeling that the | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
time has come for this idea? might be. The polling is | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
fascinating. We have not had this level of detail before. It suggests | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
that even though there is a relatively low level of knowledge | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
about whether the vote will take place, that it will take place, on | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
balance people seem to be pretty strongly in favour, not only in | :25:39. | :25:47. | |
another West Yorkshire cities. is interesting, what James is | :25:47. | :25:49. | |
saying in Yorkshire, not many people know and those that do know | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
rather like the idea. But the political establishment, left right | :25:52. | :25:59. | |
and centre, does not want it. You're going to get a fight in a | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
low turnout between the political establishment united in saying no | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
and those who do want it are not going to vote in huge numbers. | :26:08. | :26:16. | |
Possibly. There is no doubt that many politicians and cities are not | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
enthusiastic about Mears because they think it will take power away | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
from them and concentrated in one pair of hands. Of course, Tony | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
Blair and David Cameron are a supporter. Michael Heseltine is a | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
supporter. There is much national political support, from of a | :26:31. | :26:36. | |
presidential politicians, for the idea of this role. The idea that as | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
people go to vote, remembering that they will be voting in local | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
elections anyway, they will then be faced with this question and | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
whatever they think, they will have to make the choice. The polls | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
suggest that on balance, they will vote yes. The supporters claim that | :26:52. | :26:58. | |
if you believe in devolution, to the major English cities, towns and | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
districts, the only sure way of getting things done is to have an | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
elected mayor, to have someone around to that power can coalesce. | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
It is easy to forget what a centralised country Englanders. It | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
is one of the most centralised countries in the world. Scotland, | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
Wales, Northern Ireland have devolved power... People in | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
Scotland think it is very centralised in Edinburgh! That is | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
also true. That being the case, what for England? We have seen in | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
London, and there are mayors in other places, like Middlesbrough | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
and Hartlepool, that have been very successful, if we had more Meyers | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
in big cities, in many ways they could be more powerful in the City | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
than the Mayor of London. True, it is not entirely clear what their | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
powers are, but in a city like Birmingham or Leeds, and remember | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
Liverpool has already decided to go for it, these people will have all | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
the powers that London boroughs have, and some of the mayoral | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
powers. It is going to be a powerful role and some MPs are | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
thinking of leaving Westminster to stand in mayoral elections. That is | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
a sign that they must think they will have power, more power than an | :28:06. | :28:12. | |
MP. Is it true that if you get elected mayors, and they are | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
regarded as a success, it is inevitable that more power will | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
flow to them? It is certainly what has happened in London. Another | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
city that now has won his Leicester. We have Leicester, Liverpool, | :28:25. | :28:35. | |
:28:35. | :28:36. | ||
Salford, I think when we have a separate big-city mayors, they will | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
be a powerful base for demanding more powers, the new is that | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
England will get to devolution. Where are you on this? I am in | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
sympathy with the good people of Yorkshire, whose eyelids droop at | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
the very mention of the word. I can see why people would not be | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
necessarily grabbed by the idea because it is hard to know what | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
you're choosing. You do not know the candidates, are they going to | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
be washed up local politicians who have decided that the Westminster | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
career are -- is not going anywhere or will they be transformative | :29:08. | :29:14. | |
personalities? I think they have the capacity to serve as an -- a | :29:15. | :29:22. | |
pressure valve, because the cry about Scottish independence will | :29:22. | :29:29. | |
end up with a cry in England, where his England's voice? I think there | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
is another reason why it is catching the imagination. One of | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
the developments taking place in this country at the moment is | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
London, Greater London and the south-east becoming more and more | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
divorced from the rest of the country. It seems to me that one of | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
the few ways you might rebalance that is to put real powerhouses | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
into Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle. And there is a sense | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
that the Government does not understand anything beyond London. | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
The argument about mansion tax is all about London and the south-east. | :30:00. | :30:06. | |
Benefit capping is about London. If you live in Leicester or Birmingham, | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
you might not think anything about it. More direct democracy has to be | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
a good thing in principle. If you look at the Scottish Parliament and | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
Welsh Assembly, you wonder. But London has been a pretty obvious | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
success. Is it Doncaster that has a very good mayor? I think Doncaster | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
there has been a problem. But in fairness, it is because there was a | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
political problem inside local politics that the mayor could not | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
solve. But Middlesbrough, Hartlepool, Watford, these have all | :30:35. | :30:45. | |
:30:45. | :30:49. | ||
We have 14 elected mayors, I am told. But in Stoke-on-Trent, they | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
have got rid of theirs! The mare was seen as a way of sorting out | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
the political problems and it didn't work out, local politics was | :30:58. | :31:05. | |
so difficult even a mayor could not solve it. He am I right in saying, | :31:05. | :31:12. | |
do you agree with the point I made, it seems that London is becoming | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
more and more divorced from the rest of the country? There is no | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
question. If you look at the economic growth figures in London | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
and the south east, the area has pulled away from the rest of the UK. | :31:24. | :31:33. | |
The City, anything to do with it is dominant. I absolutely agree, a | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
mare in Birmingham, Bristol, might create a counterbalance and their | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
boys might be heard in the way that the London mayor has been | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
successfully heard, for example, in bidding for transport resources. In | :31:46. | :31:53. | |
that sense it would create a counterbalance. It would give the | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
media a focal point on who speaks for each city. It would also create | :31:58. | :32:05. | |
competition for London, which is no bad thing. I do think that the | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
mayor of a big city like Birmingham or Leeds or Bristol would become a | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
national political figure, much better than any MPs, or many MPs, | :32:14. | :32:24. | |
:32:24. | :32:27. | ||
dare I say. The Tomorrow, tens of thousands of | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
people are expected to gather in Moscow, to protest against Vladimir | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
Putin's victory in the presidential elections. International observers | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
have alleged widespread vote rigging, although Mr Putin has | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
claimed that, if violations had taken place, they had been too | :32:38. | :32:40. | |
insignificant to influence the final results. In a moment, we'll | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
get the thoughts of the former Foreign Secretary Douglas Hurd, and | :32:43. | :32:49. | |
former British Ambassador Tony Brenton. But first, we can go live | :32:49. | :32:55. | |
to Moscow, to speak to our correspondent Daniel Sandford. | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
Harvey's protests going to be significant? Are they a threat to | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
the new President? I think that is the big question. We don't know the | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
answer but we will get an idea tomorrow. If they go on | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
consistently getting 100,000 people or more out on the streets of | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
Moscow, it will keep up the pressure on President p 10 when he | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
becomes President in May, and it will make sure, to my degree, he | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
gives some of the democratic reform these people are seeking. But | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
democracy in Russia it is a completely strange affair. This is | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
a place which looks like a democracy but it really isn't. The | :33:35. | :33:42. | |
TV channels are not giving balanced coverage. All opposition figures | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
are squashed down. This is not a small matter of making sure that | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
voting is more fair, this is a very big affair to try to reform, and it | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
will take a long time for the protesters to achieve any results. | :33:57. | :34:07. | |
:34:07. | :34:07. | ||
One of the problems for you, you are closer to London in Moscow than | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
to Vladivostok. And it is hard to know how hard -- of how widespread | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
this is. Is it a Moscow phenomenon? It is essentially a Moscow | :34:18. | :34:25. | |
phenomenon. There is a reasonable movement in St Petersburg. We have | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
travelled across the country, and what we find is when you get two | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
cities, you find small pockets of people who are following the | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
protest movement on line, trying to get organised in their own cities. | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
But it is much harder, and more dangerous further away from Moscow. | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
People in Moscow feel less threatened by the authorities. If | :34:49. | :34:57. | |
you are neurone, you are much more at risk from the local authority. | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
We look forward to seeing your reports over the weekend. Douglas | :35:01. | :35:10. | |
Hurd and Tony Brenton are with me now. | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
Douglas Hurd, welcome to the programme, good to see you. Should | :35:16. | :35:25. | |
the British attitude be, We know the dodgy things about the election | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
but whatever happens, Vladimir Putin will be President. We must | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
get on and deal with him. Of course we have to get on and deal with him, | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
there is no doubt about that. But, the tone of voice has to reflect | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
the fact we have a row with Russia, not just about human rights in | :35:45. | :35:52. | |
general but eight particular episode. Therefore, we cannot be | :35:52. | :35:59. | |
absolutely extreme in our response. Do you detect any change in Russian | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
foreign policy? We have had some difficulties with them over Syria | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
where they have blocked any progress in the United Nations | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
Security Council. There are difficulties over Iran. They are | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
hard line in confronting what we perceive to be Western interests. | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
That is unlikely to change. It is very unlikely to change, that would | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
involve him saying he had got something wrong in the recent past. | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
They will be slow to acknowledge any fault. Ambassador, do we have | :36:31. | :36:39. | |
any idea, he has never left the scene. He was President. His mate, | :36:39. | :36:45. | |
some would say his puppet, became President one he was Prime Minister. | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
He is back in the top seat. What are his strategic goals over the | :36:50. | :36:59. | |
next six years? He is a Russian Padgett -- pitch yet, he wants to | :36:59. | :37:05. | |
rebuild Russia and prosperity, pride, stability. And that, I am | :37:05. | :37:12. | |
sure, remains the centre of what he wants to do. He is running out of | :37:12. | :37:22. | |
:37:22. | :37:23. | ||
people. One of Russia's problems is the population is going down. | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
Western media, including the BBC, we give greater emphasis to these | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
demonstrations on the streets of Moscow. We're not used to | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
demonstrations in Russia. They clearly have some significance. Are | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
we giving them too much significance? Are they | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
overwhelmingly a cosmopolitan protest? Undoubtedly something | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
profound in Russia has changed. You have the urban, young middle class | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
on the streets saying, we want the same civic rights as in the west. | :37:56. | :38:03. | |
We don't want corruption. That is a profound change. Some people have | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
said, Vladimir Putin has only two years left. Even after the flawed | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
elections, he retains the support of perhaps more than half the | :38:13. | :38:20. | |
Russian people, and he knows it. he did win. Even though big parts | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
of the elections were dodgy? undoubtedly one, and because he has | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
brought prosperity and straight to Russia, he still remains Russia's | :38:30. | :38:37. | |
most popular politician. He faces an awkward choice. He can carry on | :38:37. | :38:44. | |
with corruption, top-down authoritarianism. But he has an | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
alienated middle-class, which brought down governments in Korea, | :38:48. | :38:55. | |
in Chile, and most recently in Egypt. He has looked at what has | :38:55. | :39:01. | |
happened to President Mubarak, and didn't want that to happen to him. | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
He will be looking at accommodating some of the demands. And there are | :39:06. | :39:13. | |
signs of him identifying ways. The Parliament, opening up the | :39:13. | :39:20. | |
electoral system. There has been a move by Dmitry Medvedev, to look | :39:20. | :39:28. | |
again at the sentence on the oligarch in prison. That may not | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
mean anything, but if it does, it is a sign he is beginning to look | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
for some accommodation with his new social movement as a way of moving | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
Russia a bit more in the direction we want to see it. The other way he | :39:40. | :39:50. | |
:39:50. | :39:51. | ||
could take is the Syrian way, lock them down, lock them up. Ex KGB, | :39:51. | :39:57. | |
the best and bright Russians joined the KGB. He certainly could pursue | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
the Syrian route. I don't think he wants to be casinos the costs he | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
brings to the country which he loves. He can't be confident it | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
would work. There have been security men among the | :40:09. | :40:15. | |
demonstrators, famously back in August 1991. That failed is because | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
the Army would not go into the White House. There is a limit to | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
the extent to which he can rely on his security forces. The cover | :40:24. | :40:30. | |
story of the Economist, one of our more serious public issues, said | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
this was the beginning of the end of Vladimir Putin. Everything is | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
the beginning of the end of something. That is life. There | :40:39. | :40:47. | |
speaks a man from experience! he has got a long way to run. | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
there for six years. The Russians will get fed up with him after a | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
time. That is the nature of it. They're quite expert at endurance, | :41:00. | :41:10. | |
the Russians. I doubt if anyone will remove him by force. I think | :41:10. | :41:17. | |
people will go on ensuring. It is a presidential system. Personality | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
matters. He is the biggest personality in Russia today. How | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
does an alternative personality emerge? That is the problem. The | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
problem of authoritarian rulers is the exit problem, protecting | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
yourself from the people you have alienated one you have been ruling. | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
How you break up a successor who does not become a threat. Vladimir | :41:39. | :41:45. | |
Putin I think genuinely intended to go away, in 2008. But decided he | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
hadn't solved the problem enough. So you think this wasn't a | :41:51. | :42:00. | |
cynical... Let us be clear. In 2007, there were clear signs he had had | :42:00. | :42:08. | |
enough, he didn't like meeting ambassadors, he wanted to enjoyed - | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
- enjoy being a former President. But his whole system virtually fell | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
apart and it became clear he had to stay as the linchpin, so he | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
installed Dmitri Medvedev as a stop gap. Now he is back with the same | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
problem of passing things on in such a manner that he can be | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
confident. Another way of dealing with it, he could set himself to | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
root out corruption. Is that a feasible thing in Russia? It is | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
very hard, corruption goes very high in the Russian system. It is | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
part of the way Russia works. But one hopes there will be moves in | :42:46. | :42:56. | |
:42:56. | :42:59. | ||
that direction. Dmitry Medvedev did a bit in that direction. | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
Liberal Democrats are heading to Gateshead today, for their party's | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
spring conference. This time last year, delegates voted against the | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
government's health bill, a vote which they say was responsible for | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
the much-heralded pause in the process. Lib Dem conference | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
delegates aren't known for giving their leaders an easy ride. Last | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
year, they voted that the party's MPs should resist the health bill's | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
"damaging and unjustified market- based approach". Despite many | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
changes, this year, some delegates want to vote on a new motion that | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
calls for the "deeply flawed" bill to be withdrawn altogether. Members | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
also want the party to confirm its backing for a mansion tax, with no | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
sign that they're prepared to compromise with their coalition | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
partners. And it's not just their own party leader that delegates | :43:37. | :43:47. | |
:43:47. | :43:47. | ||
have in their sights. A motion on Europe says that David Cameron | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
"imperilled British influence in Europe, and thereby in the wider | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
world" when he wielded the veto in December. Earlier today, former Lib | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
Dem MP Evan Harris told us why he now thought the health bill should | :43:57. | :44:07. | |
:44:07. | :44:17. | ||
be dropped, despite the amendments that have been agreed. | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
While some changes have been made, it is quite clear that the majority | :44:21. | :44:26. | |
in fact of the calls in the Liberal Democrat motion exactly a year ago | :44:26. | :44:33. | |
have not been delivered, and on that basis, the government have not | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
listened to the Lib Dems and the Lib Dems should recognise that this | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
Bill will therefore be bad for the health service, does not represent | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
Liberal Democrats's approval to go beyond the coalition agreement, | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
which was always what was agreed by the Liberal Democrats. And is also | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
politically extremely bad news for the Lib Dems and indeed for that | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
matter for the Conservatives. The best thing to do would be for a | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
line to be drawn under this matter by the Bill now longer proceeding. | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
I think there are huge numbers of people in the Liberal Democrats to | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
recognise this Bill is bad for the health service, it hasn't got a | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
Liberal Democrat party approval, and is politically very damaging. | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
The question will be whether they will be persuaded by the leadership | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
that the least damaging thing is to keep with this flawed Bill. I'd | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
think it will be a close debate and I hope the Liberal Democrat | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
representatives will look at the detail of what Liberal Democrats | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
have said before, the detail of what the healthcare professionals | :45:33. | :45:39. | |
say, since this is a friendless Bill, and look at the prospects | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
politically for us being tied to a policy that is not in the coalition | :45:43. | :45:50. | |
Listening to that with some mirth on his face, joining us from | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
Newcastle is the Liberal Democrat local government minister, Andrew | :45:54. | :46:03. | |
Stunnell, beautifully framed by the bridges of Newcastle. Let me come | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
straight to the point. If the conference votes to ditch the Bill | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
altogether, what happens? First of all, I'm told that it is Gateshead, | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
Newcastle, I have to be very careful to say the right words. I | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
have to say, I listened to Evan a very carefully and I seldom agreed | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
with him as a Member of Parliament and they do not agree with them now. | :46:26. | :46:34. | |
The Bill is fundamentally different to what it used to be. It is now | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
the Bill that I believe should be passed. We will see how the debate | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
goes and I am sure it will be lively. But I know that some very | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
important figures in the party, including Shirley Williams, will | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
say that this is the right Bill to pass and I hope very much that is | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
what representatives to come from across the country decide to | :46:52. | :47:00. | |
support. Let it take it as read that it is a different Bill and | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
that Shirley Williams has got many of the changes, and that even she | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
thinks it is time to proceed as amended, let us take that as a | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
given for the sake of this question. If the party conference decides | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
that they do not want the Bill and they fought against it, they vote | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
for ditching it, what happens? guess there will be a good deal of | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
talking but of course, the fact of the matter is that it is for MPs | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
and Lords in Parliament to decide what legislation goes through. | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
Clearly, last year there were some very serious concerns expressed and | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
there was a pause, which was agreed across the coalition. In much | :47:38. | :47:44. | |
better Bill is emerging now. -- a much better. I believe that is what | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
we will see at the end of the process. Nobody disputes that there | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
is a need to reform the NHS, to get people to the front line, to get | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
public health back to local councils and to get more decisions | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
taken by clinicians about health and how it is delivered, rather | :48:00. | :48:08. | |
than managers at the back. That is what this Bill is setting out to do. | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
Despite the Lib Dem tradition of listening carefully to their | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
activists, and the activists have been the power of policy, it is the | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
reality we were in government, particularly in coalition, I would | :48:19. | :48:25. | |
suggest, that in the end a spring conference of your party cannot | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
determined exactly what your health policy should be, you have to go | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
ahead with his Bill. What happened last year demonstrates that you | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
were not entirely right, but absolutely it is the case that MPs | :48:36. | :48:41. | |
and members of the House of Lords are not poppets. We are there to | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
exercise our judgment and I think you will find that that is what we | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
will do. But let's speak... If push comes to shove, you are ready to | :48:50. | :48:58. | |
defy the conference? You were prepared to defy the conference? | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
do not think we will be defined a conference. Let us wait and see how | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
the debate comes, let us see how it pans out on Sunday. It will be | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
lively but I believe that the very common sense approach that we are | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
taking will be the one which will prevail. You have another motion | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
before you, produced by a member of the Federal Council, which is that | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
Britain should sign up to the fiscal union pact that has been | :49:23. | :49:29. | |
pushed by Germany and France. How will that go down? It will be | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
interesting to see. Of course, that is not going to be binding one way | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
or another on the government of the country, but I think that shows | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
that this was a business partnership, the coalition is a | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
business partnership. The Conservatives agreed that we would | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
not go backwards as far as our European relations were concerned | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
and we agreed that we would not call for her word -- go forward, | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
and that is precisely where the agreement takes us. We will have to | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
go sideways because we are about to lose the line. Andrew Stunnell, | :50:01. | :50:09. | |
thank you for joining us. I got the impression, listening to | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
the Minister, that they do not want the boat to go against them, | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
obviously, but even if it does, they will tough it out. I think | :50:18. | :50:25. | |
they think that the mood among activists is not necessarily to | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
kill it stone dead but for a few more concessions, to take more out | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
of the other half. They are probably right. There was a poll | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
done by a Lib Dem grassroots website that found opposition not | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
as high as thought. Most of them wanted more concessions. A wonder | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
how much this is motivated by wider considerations. Clearly, for the | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
kind of people who go to a spring confidence -- spring conference, | :50:51. | :50:59. | |
you have to be pretty dedicated. They're pretty much root and branch | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
Lib Dems. To make a song and dance about this is a metaphor for making | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
a song and dance about a coalition with the Conservatives in which | :51:06. | :51:12. | |
they are not happy. I think they have done pretty well for | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
themselves. Tim Farron is boasting about the fact that three-quarters | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
of their manifesto is now government policy. I think they | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
would be entitled to stage a triumphal entry into Gateshead do | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
with Nick Clegg in purple and members of the Tory party being | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
tried in chains behind them, to be ritually strangled in celebration | :51:31. | :51:37. | |
of the Lib Dem triumph. I could see a leading that sort of thing. While | :51:37. | :51:44. | |
we have been talking about that, we have some news. Eric Joyce, the | :51:44. | :51:52. | |
Labour MP who got into a bit of a fractious -- fracas in a bar in the | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
Commons, he has pled guilty this morning in court and has been | :51:56. | :52:02. | |
sentenced to community service, 12 months. He may not enter any bar | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
premises for three months or licensed restaurants or off- | :52:06. | :52:13. | |
licences. He has been fined �3,000, compensation of �350 each of his -- | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
to each of his four victims. He may not leave the UK until 9th | :52:18. | :52:25. | |
September of this year, and the judge has imposed a curfew from | :52:25. | :52:27. | |
Friday to Sunday, covering the weekend, indoors from 8pm until for | :52:27. | :52:37. | |
:52:37. | :52:39. | ||
a am, for four months until July 9th. -- 4am. No wild lights for | :52:39. | :52:49. | |
Eric Joyce. -- wild night. Time for a week in 60 seconds. | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
Vince Cable gave us an insight into budget negotiations when he said he | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
would be prepared to let be 50p top rate of tax be abolished if a | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
mansion tax was introduced instead. Would you get your way? We will | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
wait and see. MPs from all sidelined up to give the Queen a | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
humble Address as she began her Jubilee celebrations. The father of | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
the House led the celebrations by revealing how the Queen maintained | :53:13. | :53:22. | |
her stamina. By not eating salads, shellfish and watermelon while | :53:22. | :53:29. | |
travelling. The EU got itself into another mess. Not over its finances | :53:29. | :53:36. | |
but because of a Lews Castle kill Bill style video made by a young | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
people. After accusations of racism, the video was withdrawn. And the | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
spoof Twitter account although David Cameron's strategy adviser | :53:46. | :53:54. | |
signed off. He told us he had left the wigwam. -- left the wigwam of | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
trust. We are already missing that wigwam of trust, and the jacuzzi of | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
justice. I think we should look again at that EU video. Roll the | :54:04. | :54:14. | |
:54:14. | :54:14. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds | :54:14. | :54:56. | |
It's the way they tell them. Let's get some expert opinion on this. | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
What on earth possessed them to do that? And madness, I think. The | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
question I was asked is, is a racist. I think the answer is, it | :55:05. | :55:12. | |
is not racist but it is gibberish. It is terrible. Did not occur, I | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
can see you could make too much of the racism aspect, but did it not | :55:16. | :55:23. | |
occur to them that having a vulnerable white woman surrounded | :55:23. | :55:30. | |
by a fierce looking black and brown and might not be seen as just | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
slightly racist? Yes, it is remarkable that it did not. I | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
cannot believe it. Someone should have said, maybe we should not do | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
this. You would have thought voices of reason would prevail but the | :55:42. | :55:52. | |
:55:52. | :55:56. | ||
problem is it is a classic tada ad, which means that for the first few | :55:56. | :56:03. | |
seconds you do not know what it is about. What is it about? I think it | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
is saying that the Europe -- European Union is capable of | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
dealing with its enemies. But that comes back to the point that it | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
depicts our enemies has been fierce looking black and brown man. Which | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
is ridiculous. A whole thing is misconceived. -- Brown man. They | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
spent a few bob on this, I would suggest. Our money. Our money. It | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
is hard to believe that anyone could justify that, because the | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
audience who would respond to this in any way must be tiny. Foreign | :56:33. | :56:37. | |
Minister has perhaps? Who will see it, it is not running on TV. | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
whole thing is pointless. Other than that anybody would even dream | :56:41. | :56:46. | |
of doing this, the most surprising thing for me is that the European | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
Commission, or whatever part of it did this, which is the most | :56:50. | :56:52. | |
politically or deny it -- politically-correct organisation in | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
the world, did not see this. Do you remember the no pressure video | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
where the school children exploded at the touch of a button to raise | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
awareness of climate change? This is an epic fail in the same way, | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
people so blinded by their ideological cause that they cannot | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
see how crass their product is. knew we would get at Eurosceptics | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
then on that! It is an open goal for them. I am not going to sit | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
here and defend that advert, it is ridiculous and I do not think | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
anyone should. It is a classic example of the EU in action. As a | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
reporter, I always thought it was never less pro-European than when | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
you were in Brussels. He Tony Blair felt like this! This is not | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
anything you can stand up and defend. -- Tony Blair felt like | :57:41. | :57:47. | |
that. There is the idea that we are stronger when we Act in concert and | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
when we Act alone, and presumably when we Act in matters other than | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
when people run at us with swords, that is a defensible concept. In a | :57:56. | :58:02. | |
networked world, in a tiny country like ours, we are no longer be | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
ranking military power and our economy is flatlining, what do we | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
have to say for ourselves? That is not a bad arguments to make. Why | :58:09. | :58:15. | |
now? Now is not a brilliant time to sell people on the idea of Europe. | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
Someone had a budget to spend. they spent it. You should bid for | :58:19. | :58:27. | |
the next contract. I think so. could do better than that! Think | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
you very much. That is it for today. Thank you to her guests, for being | :58:32. | :58:36. | |
with us for the duration. -- our guests. The One o'clock News is | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
about to start on BBC One and I will be back on Sunday with the | :58:40. | :58:46. | |
Sunday politics as usual. This time, it is that the earlier time of | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
11:00am on Sunday morning. BBC One. I will have the welfare secretary, | :58:50. | :58:54. |