Browse content similar to 20/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks - welcome to The Daily Politics. Do you want to pay | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
less for your energy? The Government wants you to, and this | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
afternoon the Energy Secretary, Ed Davey, will unveil proposals which | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
he hopes will simplify the system and reduce the complexity and price | :00:48. | :00:56. | |
of energy deals. Countryside calling - if you can | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
get a signal. We'll be quizzing the Environment Secretary, Owen | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
Paterson, on rural concerns. How happy are you? The Government's | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
first ever survey about Britain's well-being has been published, and | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
believe it or not, we're a pretty cheeful lot. | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
And from happiness to the bustle of Westminster. Yes, our | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
parliamentarians are a busy lot - but would they ever job share? | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
Believe it or not, one MP thinks it's exactly what they should be | :01:23. | :01:32. | |
All that in the next hour. And with us for the duration today is the | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
former editor of Country Life magazine Clive Aslet. Welcome to | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
the programme. Now first this morning, let's talk about the | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
Tories' new communications guru, the Australian strategist who | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
helped Boris win office for a second term, Lynton Crosby. Because | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
the former deputy chairman of the Conservative Party Lord Ashcroft | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
has this morning being offering Mr Crosby some advice. Our political | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
correspondent Carole Walker has more details. Carole - what advice | :01:56. | :02:05. | |
has Lord Ashcroft offered? Well, we need to remember first of all, Jo, | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
that Lord Ashcroft starts this advice by pointing out that he | :02:09. | :02:16. | |
argued against having Lynton Crosby brought in to Conservative Central | :02:16. | :02:23. | |
Office. Lord Ashcroft is concerned too much on the core vote. Lord | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
Ashcroft is saying that it is very important pour the party to reach | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
out, not just to consolidate, not to rely on Ed Miliband winning it | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
for the Tories, not to write off the Liberal Democrats. And he goes | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
on also to give some rather pointed advice at the end. You will | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
remember that once the adviser becomes the story, he says, that is | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
not a good thing. That is a reference to the fact that Lynton | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
Crosby has already appeared on the front page of the Mail on Sunday, | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
with allegations that he swore about Muslims during the election | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
campaign for Boris Johnson, something which Mr Crosby says he | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
does not recall. But he is a controversial figure, and Lord | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
Ashcroft is clearly not entirely enthusiastic about his return to | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
the Conservative fold. Do you think this advice will actually be taken? | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
It is interesting. I think Lynton Crosby brings a particular skill, | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
let's say, to election campaigns. He was in charge in 2005, when | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
Michael Howard was the Tory leader, when he was accused of dog whistle | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
politics, talking a lot about immigration, in the thought that | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
this might play on people's fears. At the time he said it was an | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
important issue, but I think Lynton Crosby will bring something of a | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
focus to the Conservative Party campaign, but he is somebody who is | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
known for his focus on some call Conservative principles. There will | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
be others around him who will be arguing that the party needs to do | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
much more to open up, to modernise, to reach out. And I think that is | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
are likely to be a point of tension come the next general election | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
campaign, especially as we do not yet know exactly how it is going to | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
work out between him, George Osborne, who is in overall control, | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
Grant Shapps, the party chairman, and several other senior characters | :04:20. | :04:29. | |
who will be involved in this campaign. With us now is Tim | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
Montgomerie, the editor of Conservative Home. Do you welcome | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
this? I do, very much. This is a man with a lot of experience in | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
Australia and London, a man who knows how campaigns are run. There | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
are a lot of journalists who run campaigns, but Lynton Crosby's | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
opinion is that those are not the ideal people to run campaigns. He | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
chooses two or three big themes and makes sure the party focuses on | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
them, which is usually the secret of winning elections. What about | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
Number Ten Downing Street, is everybody behind this the Pope went | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
-- this appointment? I did not know, but I think this is something David | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
Cameron and George Osborne have wanted for quite some time. It was | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
George Osborne initially who suggested that Lynton Crosby should | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
go and help Boris Johnson, when he was first running for the Mayor of | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
London. There is an important point made by Lord Ashcroft, which is | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
that surely, to win the next election, you have got to look | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
beyond the call vote. That is Lynton Crosby's talent, but is it | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
going to limit the success of the Tory party if he does not look | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
beyond that? People have misunderstood a lot of his | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
qualities. Yes, Lynton Crosby has certain views, which might be more | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
on the traditional side of politics, but that is not his main quality. | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
What he has been recruited for is to run a campaign, to focus on the | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
things that matter, to be disciplined. I do not think the | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
Tories will suddenly revert to the kind of campaign that Michael | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
Howard had in 2005. Actually, Lynton Crosby had quite little to | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
do with that, he joined it just nine months before the election. | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
All the campaign themes had largely been decided by Michael Howard. | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
What Lynton Crosby will do will be to do a better job of making sure | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
that the David Cameron message, which is not going to be | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
revolutionised, is properly communicated to voters. This is | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
incredibly good news for the Conservative Party. What about Lord | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
Ashcroft, is he still a powerful figure? Absolutely. I have to say | :06:42. | :06:48. | |
that partly because he is my proprietor. But one huge advantage | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
which Michael Ashcroft brings is that he is a seasoned campaigner, | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
but he also conducts some of the biggest opinion polls in British | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
politics. He is more knowledgeable about what the average British | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
voter is thinking than most people. When he says something, it is not | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
just one businessman thinking aloud, it is very much grounded in an | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
awful lot of market research. there could be some tension between | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
the two men, and one thing Lord Ashcroft said was that he wanted to | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
avoid a repeat of 2010, when the campaign was run by a range of | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
people. You will still have Grant Shapps, George Osborne, Lord | :07:24. | :07:33. | |
Ashcroft, Lynton Crosby... He says, there are as many ex-Lib Dem voters | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
who might vote Tory as there are Tories who might switch to UKIP - | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
do you agree with that? Yes, that is what the market research says. | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
Surely disillusioned Lib Dem voters would be voting Labour? A lot of | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
the opinion polling suggests that there are a lot of voters waiting | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
to see whether the economic medicine but dish government is | :07:55. | :08:02. | |
dispensing will work. -- that this government is dispensing. We have a | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
character of the person inclined to vote Lib Dem, but the trick for | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
this government is, if it succeeds economically, which will be Lord | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
Ashcroft's main message, the competent delivery of economic | :08:12. | :08:19. | |
progress, then we can begin to get voters from all of the main parties. | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
Do you think the Government and the Conservatives particularly have | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
focused too much on deficit reduction, and that beyond that, | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
has not really spelt out clearly enough to voters what a | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
Conservative-led government will do? This is one of the difficulties | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
of coalition. In terms of the core vote, you might think it was rather | :08:39. | :08:48. | |
a good idea. Certainly, we might be seeing that one of the big ideas of | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
the last election is now rather unravelling, the idea of the ablest | :08:53. | :09:03. | |
:09:03. | :09:07. | ||
candidates. -- A-list candidates. Even though the idea was to make | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
the party look a bit more like the country at large. Yes, but I think | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
it has left some people wondering who they are. I think that list has | :09:15. | :09:24. | |
been mixed. Many of the most talented new members of the intake | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
are the kind of people but give me hope in the future of the | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
Conservative Party. They are incredibly talented. Perhaps the | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
media have spotlighted some of the most controversial figures. But the | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
talent is there for the future. The combination of David Cameron | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
pushing more diversity and the membership pushing back a little | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
bit, and insisting that only the cream of that list should be | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
selected, has produced one of the most exciting Tory intakes in a | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
generation. Do you agree with Lord Ashcroft that Ed Miliband could be | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
as much of an electoral liability as Gordon Brown? That is difficult | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
to say at this moment. One thing the Conservative strategists need | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
to be careful about is not to demonise Ed Miliband. That is what | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
Barack Obama did to Mitt Romney, and it is the reason why Mitt | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
Romney won the first presidential debate, and made the race closer | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
than it might have been, because he showed up and -- at that debate and | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
was not the caricature he had been made out to be. If Ed Miliband | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
turns up at that first debate and confounds how the Conservatives | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
have presented him, that is dangerous. Michael Ashcroft's | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
General point that we have to win the next general election with a | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
positive case has to be right. what about when he says, the Tories | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
need to keep the loyalists, win back the detractors and win over | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
those who are only considering the party, well, that is everybody. It | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
does not take an electoral genius to work that out. The difference is | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
that Lord Ashcroft has found out exactly what those different groups | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
are thinking. That is where the genius, if you like, comes in. But | :11:02. | :11:09. | |
I don't think anybody is alert any illusions. To win the next election, | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
it is going to take almost a miracle, because they could not win | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
the last one under almost perfect electoral conditions. It will need | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
all of the best brains in the party to work together. When you say, you | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
rather welcome the idea of concentrating on the core vote, | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
what are some of the things you would like to see? What would you | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
say to David Cameron and George Osborne? I think voters would like | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
to hear a very robust stance on Europe, I think they would be | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
worried by the noises which have been coming out about planning, for | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
example, which is something which is close to people's hearts. It is | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
not necessarily to do with is a lot of money, but I think it would | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
worry a lot of people. I think there is a feeling that it is very | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
difficult for people who have worked hard and put their children | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
through private school, for example, to get them into university. People | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
would feel this is discriminating against the very people the Tories | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
should be standing up for. wanted to ask another question -- | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
you wanted me to ask another question, didn't you? But I am not | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
going to. Last month,. Stood up at PMQs and pledged to do something | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
about energy pricing. His announcement knocked rather a lot | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
of people, including his own Energy Secretary, for six. The saga was | :12:30. | :12:40. | |
:12:40. | :12:41. | ||
completely -- was quickly dubbed combi-shambles. Last year the Prime | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
Minister promised faithfully that he would take action to help people | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
reduce their energy bills - can he tell the country how it is going? | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
We have encouraged people to switch, which is one of the best ways to | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
get your bills down, and like animals, which I am sure he will | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
welcome, that we will be legislating so that energy | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
companies have to give the lowest tariff to their customers, | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
something Labour did not do in 13 years, even though the leader of | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
the Labour Party actually could have done, because he had the job. | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
So, how are the Department of Energy and the regular going to | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
deliver on this pledge? The Lib Dem Energy Secretary will use an | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
appearance before the Commons Select Committee to lay out his | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
thinking on reforming tariff structures this afternoon. Instead | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
of hundreds of different tariffs currently offered by energy | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
suppliers, each company is expected to be allowed only four. Customers | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
will be expected to be put on the cheapest rate for them. This, | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
believes the Government, will meet the Prime Minister's pledge for | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
them to have to give the lowest tariff. But will this put a hold to | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
rising energy prices, or which just remove competition, and mean some | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
people on the best deals end up paying more? I am joined now by the | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
Shadow Energy Secretary, Caroline Flint, as well as by Richard Lloyd. | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
Richard, this is what you have been waiting for - are you pleased? It | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
is part of what we have been waiting for, and it would be good | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
news for most consumers, who currently sit on terrible, old, | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
outdated, expensive tariffs, and are not moving around in the market. | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
One in 10 people say they find the energy market clear enough to | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
navigate around, but for the vast majority of people, who do not | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
switch, sitting on expensive and outdated tariffs, being put by | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
default on the best tariff would be good news. The question is, will | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
that tariff Beechy, will it be affordable, will it be fair? Most | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
consumers think what is going on in the energy market is completely | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
under transparent. Are the generators selling power to the | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
retailers at a price which has been rigged? They will have to do a lot | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
more. How do you understand it is going to work? One envisages the | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
idea that we are all on the lowest across, pretty well all on the same | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
tariff - how can you guarantee that we will be paying less, if I am | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
already on a pretty good deal, because I have been online and done | :15:06. | :15:12. | |
my research? For people like you, there may be no gain. But for most | :15:12. | :15:18. | |
people, who currently sit on these high-cost, and competitive tariffs, | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
the impact on the new, default tariff, should save them some money | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
in the short term. But they will stay with the same supplier. What | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
this will not guarantee is that they can get the best deal in the | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
market. The Government need to make it easier for people to switch from | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
one supplier to another, to put competitive pressure on the | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
suppliers. That will keep the default price down. In theory, it | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
should work, but the backdrop is one of rising wholesale energy | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
costs, with government policy costs adding to bills, so the general | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
trend will probably still be prices going up. Caroline Flint, the | :15:53. | :16:03. | |
:16:03. | :16:05. | ||
Government have pulled this off, The proposals, which there should | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
be four tariffs. If you're buying gas, you have four tariffs, | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
variable, fixed rate and maybe a green one as well and you can | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
choose what else you want to do. The truth is with each of those | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
there is one price. You can be on the cheapest but not the best deal. | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
We've been saying, before we even get to the price setting at tariff | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
stage, we have to make sure the market is competitive so we are | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
sure that the tariffs we're being asked to choose are the fairest | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
ones. What with last week and the all the talk and debate about how | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
wholesale prices were allegedly being rigged, there's a concern | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
about whether we're getting the best deal. This doesn't take us | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
further forward because the Government has nothing to say about | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
the energy market. It's a bit unfair to say it's not taking us | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
forward. This is the start. This will simplify the tariff system. | :16:54. | :17:02. | |
You welcome that obviously. Ofgem's proposals are one that's we support | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
to simplify it. When David Cameron said we're going to force the | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
energy companies to put people on the cheapest tariff. The truth is | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
that's the one that is online. We know many older people aren't | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
online because they can't engage with that technology. Is that true, | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
Caroline is saying that you may get the cheapest tariff but not the | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
best deal. Surely the cheapest is the best deal. It depends on | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
whether you want to fix your tariff or go with a standard variable rate. | :17:35. | :17:41. | |
It will be like the mortgage market. The simplicity and the ability for | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
consumers to shop around that will keep prices in check. It remains to | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
be seen whether the Government is going to go far enough to make it | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
easy for customers to tell, at a glance, what is the cheapest price | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
between suppliers as well as being put on the default cheapest tariff | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
with the existing supplier. could have done this when you were | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
in power. Ed Miliband could have done this. It is possible. At the | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
time when David Cameron stood up in the Commons, we all thought, he's | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
misspoken, but he's proved actually, to some extent, that you can | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
achieve this. You can simplify the tariffs and perhaps get the price | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
down for a lot more people. Labour didn't do that. Actually he hasn't, | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
from what I understand, achieved what he said in the House of | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
Commons, a few weeks ago. Basically, simplyifying the tariffs, everybody | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
agrees with. That at the points in which the tariffs are set, if we're | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
not convinced it's done in the most competitive way, then even though | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
you may choose a tariff - let's be clear about this, within the | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
tariffs there will only be one choice - it is the cheapest, but | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
it's the only tariff. That's the trick that Cameron is trying to put | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
across today. It doesn't assure the public that the way the market | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
works and we did go into the last general election, saying the market | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
needed reforming. What's your response to today's announce snplt | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
I think the energy crisis has been predicted for such a long time, | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
it's a shame we're in this position and it's taken so long to sort it | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
out. As a consumer, simplicity will be a very good thing because it is | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
baffling. The proposals seem to have come from Ofgem. They have | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
brought the idea forward. You want to abolish Ofgem. Part of the | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
proposal they put forward and other things they've done in the last | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
year is catching up on the job they should have done some years ago. We | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
do not believe, looking at last week for example, they were on the | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
case in terms of concerns about the way wholesale prices were being | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
fixed. It's also why we believe, actually, we should have a new | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
regulator with the powers that when wholesale prices fall that is | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
forced on the energy companies to pass on to bill payers. Do you | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
agree? Whatever the regulate oris called, whatever it is about, it | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
should be a consumer champion, in a market where we're completely | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
outpowered by the energy giants. Has jom receive -- Ofgem failed in | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
that? We're not pleased they've done everything they can for the | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
consumer. They're starting to flex some muscle. Whatever it's called, | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
it needs to be a pro-consumer watchdog on the side of the koust | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
mer facing up to these energy giants. You'll have to sack | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
hundreds of energy experts pay them off and they'll get rehired under a | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
new regulator, why not just reform? I think everyone we agree that the | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
esteem of this sector that it's very important to us as consumers | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
but the economy as well has never been as such a low ebb. We think | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
there has to be radical change, including an Energy Bill that | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
introduces more competition, but also a tough new Energywatch dog | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
that can command the confidence of the public and if that means change, | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
that means change and we need to do that. More competition, more | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
companies, mortarives, we go round in a circle to a SIStive that will | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
be complicated. -- system that is complicated. We're acknowledging | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
that the liberalised market isn't working, not working in the | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
interest of consumers. I think the watchdog that scrutinises the way | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
these rules are put into place and enforces them will need to be very, | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
very tough on suppliers that have a track record of doing their best to | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
confuse consumers, avoid them getting on the best price. How this | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
is done is as important as the announcement We have six companies | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
that dominate 99% of the market. None of the others can get in in | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
the way it's structured at the moment. They generate energy, sell | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
it to themselves and then on to us. You didn't get anywhere with it | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
either. We went into the last election saying that had to change | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
and we needed a different pool. There was a popular survey, three | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
quarters said they believed, 74% of people thought energy companies | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
should be stripped of the power to set prices entirely are Ofgem | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
taking on the responsibility instead. Would you agree to that? | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
Yes, I suppose that would be a very good idea if it reflected the | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
wholesale price. I would like to know that the cost of the renewable | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
obligations which are put on. People get very upset about the | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
cost of renewables. We've talked endlessly about that being more | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
transparent. Are you expecting an announcement on that as well? | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
They're all over the shop on renewables with the Energy Minister | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
anti-renewables and the Secretary of State in favour of them. | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
terms of the bills, people don't know, do they? People don't. I | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
think it's true that the suppliers should be forced to do much more to | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
complain what is driving costs here. As Caroline said we've had | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
speculation that it's been a rigged market. There's a lot of Government | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
policy that's passed through to our bills. People don't know about that. | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
There are two things that need to happen - one, the suppliers need to | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
tell us in plain English, what we're paying for. Secondly, we need | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
some confidence that the price we're paying is fair. That's why | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
we've been saying to Number Ten, look, don't just move on how many | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
tariffs are available, but you have to reassure consumers that the | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
default price you're paying will be fair. That means you have to have | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
an urgent review of what ends up in our bill. Thank you. | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
To the countryside, ah, idyllic and wonderful. Or is it? Adam went to | :23:21. | :23:31. | |
find out. About a fifth of the UK lives in | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
areas like this, the village of Marnhull in rural Dorset. Most | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
places in this part of the world have got some kind of link with | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
Thomas Hardy. This place has got a really good one, because it's where | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
Tess of the D'Urbervilles was born and bred. Let's go and find out | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
what issues affect modern life in the countryside. They didn't dot | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
milking like this in Tess's day. At Home Farm the big worry is the | :23:57. | :24:04. | |
price of a pint. The price of this per litre would be 86p. The price | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
of this is �1. This is very readily falling out of the sky at the | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
moment and this takes a huge amount of production. The supermarkets | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
obviously can use this as a loss leader. I think people perhaps | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
don't understand quite the amount of work and effort that goes into | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
producing milk. Back down in the village, I've found another problem, | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
hello? Hello? Yes, that's right, the mobile phone signal here is | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
absolutely rubbish. And that's priority number one for this Dorset | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
resident, who's the new head of the Countryside Alliance. I used to be | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
a soldier. I say half joking, you get a better signal in Helmand. | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
That is really now unacceptable as is the lack of provision for rural | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
broad band. The Government has a good rural Broadband going, but it | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
needs speeding up and refining. Rural Broadband is key to rural | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
business in the way that rural businesses work. The internet gives | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
you so many opportunities that we haven't had before. One business | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
here that doesn't need the internet is the Robin Hill Stores, run by | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
husband and wife team Bob and Sue. So, what's on the minds of their | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
regulars? It's the bus services, they're cutting them completely to | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
certain areas, ie Salisbury, Dorchester and Yeovil. A lot of | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
people rely on the bus services for a day out. While Sue is concerned | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
about the dwindling number of Post Office services, they're asked to | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
provide. For us, personally, that means that comes off our bottom | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
line. We're paid on a commission basis. So the Government taking all | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
these services or potentially taking the service as way from us | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
means a cut in pay. That makes it difficult to sustain our store. | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
Although there's one thing that several shoppers told me they were | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
buying into - David Cameron's idea of the Big Society. People are | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
willing to help themselves because it's not anonymous. We all know | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
each other. We are small rb -- a small enough community that we can | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
do things for each other. Often people lay blame when there's a lot | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
they can do themselves. No amount of community spirit can solve the | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
other problem gripping the village, sky high petrol prices. Marnhull | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
might seem fairly well to do and the street names aren't run of the | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
mill, but the issues you find here, you'll find nearly ever where in | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
the countryside. And with us now is the Secretary of | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
State for the environment and rural affairs Owen Paterson. Welcome to | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
the Daily Politics. Is the countryside neglected? Absolutely | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
not. For the first time in years, we've got ministers looking after | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
the countryside, who all come from the countryside and really | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
understand it. It will take time, but we've set up a lot of | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
arrangements so we can work closely with the countryside. One of the | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
first things I did was launch a big paiper in Cumbria making a complete | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
commitment that Government policy would be countryside proofed, so | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
countryside policies come through us to people who really understand | :27:10. | :27:17. | |
it. I was born in the countryside. I've lived there all my life. I've | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
represented north Shropshire for 15 years. Big statement. Big promise, | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
are you convinced? We heard the problems, lack of Broadband, | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
stopping rural business, lack of affordable housing. Well, it's | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
great that Mr Paterson is so committed, but I think it's coming | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
from a history which has not been so countryside friendly perhaps. A | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
lot of people in the countryside for the reasons that you said feel | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
rather neglected. I think it's not just ministers, though ministers | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
have not always had such understanding, it's civil servants | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
who tend to come from the south- east and think it's a nuisance. | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
What is the raw deal about, what are they most upset about? There's | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
a combination of things which aren't necessarily in the control | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
of the Government, for example, high fuel prices make a very | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
significant difference in the countryside because there's not | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
much alternative. There are things which can be done, badgers is on | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
hold. We mustn't talk about it I understand. Course you can, talk | :28:15. | :28:21. | |
about whatever you like. But milk prices and for example, the state | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
of trees, that is very tragic and people feel those things very | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
strongly. Do you think the Government responded adequately or | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
was it not a priority? I think they have responded quite well recently, | :28:34. | :28:40. | |
but I think that the issue is that for example, when the Forestry | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
Commission was under discussion a year ago, it wasn't very well | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
handled. The -- they did the wrong thing. It wouldn't have mattered if | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
the forest had been sold because the own irship isn't the issue. | :28:52. | :28:59. | |
It's whether -- ownership isn't the issue. It's whether you have access. | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
Those people should have been looking after the trees and these | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
problems. That's the accusation that you've taken away the | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
expertise from within DEFRA itself and that has contributed to the | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
problem with ash die back. We put more money back into research on | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
trees, but... I've only been there for two months. I know. If you look | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
at the last few years, the trend has been the other way. Do you | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
accept that? I've said publicically and I'll say it again, we have to | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
completely change our attitude to trees in the forestry. We have to | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
renew our whole policy because we know there are a number of very | :29:36. | :29:43. | |
dangerous tree diseases out there. There's the larch tree disease and | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
in the chestnuts. The Americans lots billions of chestnut trees. | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
I'm not sure we can treat plant and tree products as a free, tradable | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
commodity any more. We send seedlings to Holland and bring them | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
back and plapbtd them here. I'm prepared for a radical look at how | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
we handle our forestry and tree environment and the trade in those | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
materials, which up to now, have been free. To go back to the point | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
about people in the countryside and feeling that they have perhaps been | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
neglected in the past. Government do things about the lack of | :30:16. | :30:26. | |
:30:26. | :30:29. | ||
Broadband, the lack of public Having represented a rural area for | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
15 years, one of the biggest problems I had was getting across | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
to her but ministers, and civil servants... I would entirely agree | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
with somebody who was on that kick just then - our rural broadband is | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
absolutely fundamental. Improving that catapults every kind of rural | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
activity, on a level playing field with people in the cities. It is | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
not just businesses, it is about delivering health services, and | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
also elderly people, who can be isolated. The first week I got in I | :31:01. | :31:08. | |
went to Cumbria to launch a major initiative on broadband. We are | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
spending half a billion pounds on broadband. The other comment, | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
regarding the mobile phones, it does help to have a minister like | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
me who is completely exasperated by the dire quality of our mobile | :31:21. | :31:31. | |
:31:31. | :31:31. | ||
phone networks. I have had meetings with Maria Miller and Eric Pickles, | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
we are quite determined to get this right. We are working extremely | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
hard on it. But it does help to have ministers who have a gut | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
feeling for this, who know how exasperated people are in the | :31:42. | :31:48. | |
countryside. One thing about housing is the possible need to | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
have big estates and high rise blocks, what about that in the | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
countryside? I think actually in the countryside, it is often a case | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
of quite small units, which can be difficult to get through planning. | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
Quite often, once they have got through planning, the need has | :32:05. | :32:11. | |
actually gone away, because people have moved. So, I think small is | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
beautiful in the countryside, in terms of affordable housing. I | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
think that is what is needed, rather than big estates. What do | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
you think about the framework on planning from the Government? | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
don't think it will make much difference to the issue I have just | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
been speaking about, but I think it will make a big difference to the | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
big infrastructure projects, which are not what people want. | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
planning, we have allowed local people to come forward with local | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
plans. I am clear, we cannot freeze the countryside, there has to be | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
development. That affects our youngest people, just getting on | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
the jobs ladder, who need affordable housing. I think we have | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
done a great thing for the countryside, allowing development | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
which is in tune with locals people's views and needs. Except, | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
of course, there will be a case where central government can say, | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
certain authorities are blocking plans, and you will be able to ride | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
roughshod over those authorities. No, because the concept gives real | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
power to local councillors. It comes up from the bottom. We have | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
seen it already, it is working. of your targets was the radical | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
reform of the agricultural policy in Europe - how can you hope to get | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
that, including the fisheries policies? It is just not going to | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
happen, Tony Blair tried it, how are you going to succeed? It is a | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
long shot, because I am one of 27, which is one of the problems. You | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
mentioned the fisheries policy - I came up with a fisheries policy | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
when I was in opposition, to establish national local control. | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
We have a coalition policy of reform of the CAP. The minister in | :33:51. | :33:58. | |
charge has gone a long way, on one of the most contentious issues, | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
which is the problem of discards, good, healthy fish being thrown | :34:02. | :34:08. | |
away. Richard has done a fantastic job in our negotiations. It is | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
complicated, it has been to the council, and it is now going to the | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
European Parliament. We are looking to get a ban, which would be really | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
good.. But you have set yourself that the eurozone could effectively | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
create that inner core, then Britain would be permanently on the | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
outside, permanently out voted on these issues. Well, actually, if | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
you look at what Richard has done on the CAP, by working with like- | :34:35. | :34:41. | |
minded allies, major progress has been made. It does not go as far as | :34:41. | :34:47. | |
some of us would like, but it is a stark. Has the government policy on | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
onshore wind farms changed? I do not to energy policy. You do in | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
terms of the impact on the rural economy - has it changed? No. John | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
Hayes has been clear that he is going to deliver a certain amount | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
of policy for wind farms. I have been clear that there are | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
appropriate places for certain kinds of energy and inappropriate | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
places. It is horses for courses. In my part of the world, it is a | :35:14. | :35:23. | |
stupid place to build wind farms, because of the trees. If there is | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
no wind in your constituency, why are EDF in talks with Shropshire | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
council over the possible placing of eight turbines? And you should | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
see the number of letters I am getting at the moment opposing the | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
establishment of even pipelines linking up possible wind farms | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
which may be built in Wales. It is all hypothetical. People get | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
absolutely incandescent about wind turbines, it is almost the thing | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
which people feel most passionate about. But the windy places tend to | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
be on the top of hills, and they tend to be the most beautiful parts | :35:56. | :36:03. | |
of the countryside. I think what John Hayes said was that there was | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
enough capacity to meet the target which has been set, but he has also | :36:07. | :36:15. | |
quite rightly picked up. Made by Clive Aslet that building turbines | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
in inappropriate places causes massive opposition, because these | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
turbines do not generate much power. Wide end did Peter Lilley saying a | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
secret report that he believed the Chancellor privately regretted all | :36:27. | :36:36. | |
of the green commitments which had been made? -- why then? I cannot | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
speak for what Peter Lilley said. I was hopefully last week, supporting | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
British food. All I can say is, I do not to energy policy... But you | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
to do the impact of it on the rural economy. Yes, and there have been | :36:49. | :36:55. | |
quite clear that it is horses for courses. Some form of hydro power | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
may be appropriate, as long as it works with the grain of nature and | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
does not destroy fish stocks. But in inland counties, it is | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
impossible to exaggerate the anger that there is at inappropriate | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
installations of turbines, where there is not enough wind to justify | :37:11. | :37:17. | |
it. Should the subsidies continue for onshore wind? I am not keen on | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
subsidising anything. If these technologies are able to, they | :37:21. | :37:28. | |
should stand on their own. I do the impact on the rural economy and | :37:28. | :37:36. | |
environment. I think it is incredible that the renewable | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
obligations mean that we import woodchip and logs with Bach on in | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
order to put them into biomass power stations. What has been done | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
to inspect that material to make sure it is not carrying treat | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
diseases, I wonder? This was highlighted by Defra last year. | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
set up this task force shortly after I came into a look at how we | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
handle all plant and tree materials. I think part of his investigation | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
will be looking at biomass. I am looking at a major and radical | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
change at the way we handle all plant and tree products. Thank you | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
very much for coming onto the programme. Well, according to the | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
Government's first report on the quality of our lives, which | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
incidentally is out today, people in rural areas shouldn't be | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
whinging at all. The report found that the lives of people in rural | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
Britain was significantly better than those who live in urban areas. | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
Women tend to be happier than men. And people over 60 also tend to be | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
happier. Oh, and if you live in the Outer Hebridies, Orkney or Shetland, | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
you've apparently got life taped. Anyway, the man charged with | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
overseeing the report is the former Cabinet Secretary Gus, now Lord, | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
O'Donnell. I spoke to him earlier this morning and I began by asking | :38:47. | :38:54. | |
him how happiness was measured. Well, happiness is something | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
subjective, it is how you feel. We asked people how they were feeling, | :38:58. | :39:04. | |
but it is not the only aspect of wellbeing. It is one aspect. We | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
also want to measure people's life- expectancy, their health, aspects | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
of basically whether they are having a good lie for not. | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
obvious response is, in these straitened times, is this not just | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
a waste of money? For somebody to say, if you have a job, you will be | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
happier than if you are unemployed? Yes, but we measure success by the | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
change in GDP - how stupid is that? Actually, in this downturn, GDP has | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
fallen quite a lot, but employment has stayed quite high, so the | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
impact on wellbeing is not as much as if you just looked at the GDP | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
numbers. How can the Government make us feel happier, what policies | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
can they passed? First of all, it can understand what it is that | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
makes people feel better. In a sense, this is feeding back, we | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
need to understand what it is that the public are unhappy about, what | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
is really bad for their lives. For example, we know from all this | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
research that commuting is something that people really | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
dislike. There are things we can do about trying to emphasise and | :40:08. | :40:13. | |
improve the quality of commuting. There are things like in macro | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
policy thinking about different kinds of policies - how do you pick | :40:17. | :40:25. | |
that one which keeps most people in jobs? Does this not also sound a | :40:25. | :40:32. | |
bit statist? Do people want the Government to decide about their | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
well-being? It is definitely not that. We are giving you the power. | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
So far, the Government has been saying, here are the services we | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
are going to deliver to you. But actually, we want to find out from | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
you what really makes a difference. For example, in health services, we | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
know that car parking charges really matter to people in | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
hospitals. So, not just improving the quality of the Health Service, | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
but all the ancillary things around it. You could argue that George | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
Osborne's economic policy has been designed to satisfy the credit | :41:06. | :41:12. | |
rating agencies - do you think that used to narrow? Well, the policy I | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
hope is not being designed about credit rating agencies. That is | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
what we hear from the Government all the time, that it is about | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
having good credit, keeping interests -- interest rates low. | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
Well, the credit rating agencies have not exactly got a fantastic | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
record in this process, so I do not agree with that. We saw America had | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
its credit rating dropped and its interest rates did not move at all. | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
It is absolutely right that we try our best to maintain a good credit | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
rating, but it is not the goal of policy. That should be trying to | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
maximise will be in, it should have -- it should be about a recovery | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
which is employment which, which gets us back on track and learnt | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
the lessons of the financial crisis. The Civil Service will not be | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
feeling very happy at the moment, with 1,000 jobs going in the | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
Department of education - what would you say to them but that this | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
process has been going on, the Civil Service has been at the | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
forefront of contributing to the deficit reduction process. This has | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
been tough. We do have the smallest Civil Service since the Second | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
World War and the numbers are going down, as we improve efficiency. | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
remaining ones are aware that they did not cause this problem, but | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
they are playing their part to contribute towards it. I think | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
they're doing a fantastic job. If you think of the fact that there | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
was a lot less money, and they are improving services, what I would | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
say to them is, this is a time when you have got the opportunity to | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
innovate. Yes, there is no money, so we need to work incredibly hard, | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
innovatively, with new ideas, to make sure that people who really | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
depend on public services are not adversely affected by deficit- | :42:51. | :42:56. | |
reduction. Do you agree, then, that the civil service is being | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
undervalued? Massively undervalued. I am just about to go off to | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
Singapore. I wish that our civil servants were paid in the same way | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
that they are in Singapore, which is closer to market rates. | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
Certainly I think our civil servants are undervalued. But when | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
times are tight, a pink sepals servants know that we need to play | :43:17. | :43:24. | |
our part. We are all in this together. -- I think that civil | :43:24. | :43:30. | |
servants know that... But it is not just about jobs being lost, it is | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
about rhetoric coming from government, saying that the Civil | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
Service needs to harness the buccaneering spirit of war, the | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
enemies of enterprise speech, characterising the Civil Service as | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
a block on progress - are they being demonised? What I would say | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
is, and the challenge I put back to the Prime Minister when he used | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
that phrase was to say, OK, let's do this, so I set up something | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
called I would take challenge, asking all businesses to tell us | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
what red tape they wanted us to get rid of, and we will now push goes | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
through, and we will see who of the block to this. Hopefully a lot will | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
come from this. If it doesn't, it is either because businesses have | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
not told us what is wrong, or it has been decided but the chicken | :44:14. | :44:20. | |
that these are not the things to do. -- it has been decided politically | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
that these are not the right things to do. I think David Cameron is | :44:24. | :44:31. | |
trying to say, look, the past is not necessarily a good guide to the | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
future. We need to be innovative, we need to take risks, we need a | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
culture which says, if something goes wrong, that is fine. In the | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
private sector, you try 10 projects, if six of them succeed, you are | :44:42. | :44:48. | |
doing well. In the Civil Service, if we have four failures, we would | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
have four hearings before the Public Accounts Committee. How many | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
times have we talk about the Olympics and the success of the | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
Olympics, and gone back to analyse the lessons of success as opposed | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
to the lessons of failure?. Should the Cabinet Secretary be defending | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
the civil-service more edge that he has a very difficult job. There is | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
no-one better than me to say that because I was in it for six years. | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
But you were not pleased about the enemies of enterprise speech, were | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
you? No, I was not because I did not think it was true. Where things | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
are true, and where the Civil Service can be faulted, is where in | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
the past we have stuck with, this is the way we have always done it, | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
it is the safe way of doing things. What I am trying to do, and my | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
successors, is to change that mindset, to say, actually, | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
innovation is fine, we will accept your failure, and let's hope the | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
whole system will get into that mood of celebrating success and | :45:44. | :45:54. | |
:45:54. | :45:56. | ||
learning from failure. Are you a I am. I have complete control over | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
the allocation of my time at the moment. I spend a lot of time on | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
exercise, outside. We know that matters a lot. Better than working | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
in Government? I can come on the TV and say what I really think, which | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
was a freedom I didn't have before. Yes, and is that liberating? It is, | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
yes. I'm enjoying it. You see, the joys of being able to come on the | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
Daily Politics. You've got that pleasure, of course, we have the | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
pleasure of you. Do you think these things are worthwhile, a well being | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
commission, a report into trying to allow Government to find out what | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
makes people happy? As soon as you put something like well being into | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
a report it looks ridiculous. It's easy to make fun of it. It's an | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
idea that is rather good that David Cameron has come up with. But | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
perhaps not as well communicated as it might have been rather like the | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
Big Society. It's particularly important now, at a time when a lot | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
of people feel trapped in a somewhat negative economic | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
environment that we look at the things which actually do make | :46:57. | :47:05. | |
people happy. Are you happy? happy. But I think that people are | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
temperamentally happy or not. is the problem with the survey, | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
you're either suss peptible to it or not. That's true. But it's | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
interesting that people are on the whole happier in the countryside. | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
They have less money on the whole. They have a lot of things they have | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
to deal with. They feel part of a community and that's very important | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
to people and also, the fact that, the point that Gus O'Donnell made | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
that if you have control over your time, that's also very helpful. | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
These things don't necessarily cost very much or may not be to do with | :47:35. | :47:41. | |
money at all. Exactly what he said. Now here's a thought - should MPs | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
job share? One MP think it's would be a rather good idea and is | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
suggesting it to the House of Commons as I speak. Gyles spent the | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
morning getting to the bottom of it. We live in a modern world. Plenty | :47:51. | :47:58. | |
of people work parttime, but would it work for MPs? Well, there is a | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
rule going through -- before MPs. There is a suggestion it might | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
happen, at least a sensible debate about it. With me are two MPs, | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
tpwhun favour and one, I think it's fair to say, who isn't. Meg, why is | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
this not a daft idea? In other parts of any business people can | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
choose to job share. You get two for the price of one, two people | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
committed to working how to make that job work well together and | :48:21. | :48:27. | |
balancing it with the rest of their lives. I am assuming you would have | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
to be honest enough to say to the electorate, you would have to be | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
elected as a job share, not oh, I fancy taking Time Out and bringing | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
someone else in. Absolutely. Because of the nature of the job, | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
you stand for election as a job share, complaining how you would | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
share it, would you split it by days of the week, by topics and ho | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
-- how to handle votes on difficult issues. In parts of the country I | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
think the electorate would go for it. You once described this as | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
bonkers. Why? Is this April fool's days? This is a crack pot idea. | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
This is further demeaning Parliament. The job doesn't lend | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
itself to job share. In a time when we're looking to have less elected | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
Parliamentarians to have double the number by job sharing is crazy. | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
Madness. You know it wouldn't be double because only a few would go | :49:16. | :49:22. | |
for it. Do your staff know what's in your in tray, do your staff know | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
what you're covering, why couldn't someone else know as well? At a | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
time when we have less people voting than ever, to put two people | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
forward and to say for a five-year period you're going to job share, | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
how would you decide who would do what part of the job? I mean I want | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
to see us woking longer hours at Westminster not less hours. I think | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
the trend, enough is enough and to job share is the end. It's a | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
peculiar idea in that you could think the same way about certain | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
issues. On most issues people vote on the whip. In seven years in | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
Parliament, there have been three, four occasions when there have been | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
free votes on difficult issues, you would have to explain how you would | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
decide thatened you get only one vote. You talk about doubling the | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
numbers and cost, but you'd have two people sharing one office and | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
one set of resources. There wouldn't be additional cost. What | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
if one of you misbehaved? I think you'd have to again have a way of | :50:21. | :50:28. | |
dealing with. It you would have to - I think two rational, sensible, | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
professional people could sort it out. Job shares head of planning in | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
a London borough. These are difficult jobs. You're shaking your | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
head. We've all got big egos and for two people over five years not | :50:41. | :50:48. | |
to change and not to fall out, this would be like a reality TV show. | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
One of your colleagues stepped downforceing a by-election recently | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
because they wanted to spend more time with their family. I'm not | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
going to comment on a former colleague. They said they felt the | :51:00. | :51:06. | |
pressure of family. Oh, for goodness sake. I think, you say for | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
goodness sake, I had a flood of e- mails from women saying, you know | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
if we want more real people in Parliament who understand and | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
juggle real life, let's face it when we are in Westminster - | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
isn't that sort of job. It could be. It's demeaning it. You are going to | :51:22. | :51:29. | |
carry this on for a while. Just, do you think it could happen? It could. | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
The option needs to be open. It would be a great thing. Prove it. | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
I've got a bit of online research to do any way. Hand back to the | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
studio. From college gene, from Gyles on his mobile and from David, | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
back to you in the studio. OMG, she made it look too easy. I | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
might be out of a job. Well done. Why couldn't there be a job share | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
at Westminster? MPs should be able to manage that? It's difficult | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
having a coalition between two parties and the idea of mini | :52:00. | :52:06. | |
coalitions beggars belief. Why? There are so many other jobs that | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
you could job share. Once you get over the initial how would it work, | :52:10. | :52:16. | |
why wouldn't it agree? You would have to have complete agreement on | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
every subject, which isn't possible. Because of the character of MPs | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
people wouldn't agree. Yes. would need continuity. They would | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
vote on the same issues at different times and they could vote | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
different ways. No hands up for job sharing. Not for me. That hasn't | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
passed in the studio. Now according to the Government's happiness | :52:35. | :52:42. | |
survey, which we were talking about, money hasn't necessarily -- doesn't | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
necessarily make you happy. With more of the super rich coming to | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
live in the UK, you might have to watch out for a miserable mogul | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
coming to live near you. The Mayor of London says we should welcome | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
the rich and powerful with open arms, arguing that the more open | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
our society to they and powerful the more dynamic and prosperous our | :53:01. | :53:07. | |
economy will become, which was a major theme in his speech to the | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
CBI yesterday. You should never underestimate the protean ability | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
to find markets around the world. I never tire of telling you, you | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
export bicycles to Holland, mosquito repellant to Brazil, TV | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
antennas to Korea, tea to China, rice to India, Piers Morgan to | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
America... LAUGHTER | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
Not just cake to France, but I discovered the other day, we sell | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
lavender perfume and lavender oil grown from south London lavender to | :53:40. | :53:50. | |
:53:50. | :53:50. | ||
France. Parfum deBromley. If we can sell that, my friends, we can sell | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
anything, can't we? That is the achievement and the result of the | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
imagination of British business. Ever since London was founded in | :53:59. | :54:07. | |
48AD by a bunch of pushy Italian immigrants, London has benefited | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
from the consciousness that we are a great global city and we will win, | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
if we think global and open ourselves to the worldment Boris | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
Johnson, never knowingly understated. Joining us now is a | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
person who co-incidentally has written about -- a book about | :54:25. | :54:34. | |
autocrats. Cysta Freeland. How did such a small group of people take | :54:34. | :54:41. | |
such a large part of the pie? one hand globalisation, the | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
technology revolution, this really profound change is making it | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
possible for people to earn bigger fortunes than ever before and to | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
earn them very, very quickly. At the same time, we're seeing mill | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
low class hollowed out. That's the big economic shift that we're | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
seeing and all trying to come to terms with. What's caused that? I | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
suppose generally there was a feeling that the middle class | :55:04. | :55:06. | |
extended post-war, slowly but surely, more people became better | :55:07. | :55:13. | |
off. You're now talking about the very, very top 0.1% talking off | :55:13. | :55:19. | |
from the rest. Shooting off even as we're seeing median wages in -- | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
wages stagnate. Economists talk about this, British economists talk | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
about the rise of the lovely and the Laosy jobs. It's this two-speed | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
world. It really is. I think it's very intuitive. On the one hand | :55:33. | :55:36. | |
globalisation. If you're running a business, producing something that | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
is able to really take off, you can sell to the whole world instead of | :55:41. | :55:48. | |
just to your country. We heard Boris Johnson talking about parfum | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
de Bromley. Can you sell into a global market. If you're a winner | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
in a field, that's great. Then the technology revolution, exact lit | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
same thing, that first of all, for superstars like Lady GaGa she can | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
sing to a global audience and not just a local one. If you were | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
running, think about Facebook, one of the huge companies of our time, | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
do you know how many people work there? No. Fewer than 5,000. | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
Because technology has made that happen. It's a technology company | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
and worth billions. You mentioned Lady GaGa and Facebook, Google, who | :56:19. | :56:25. | |
else are we talking about? Who is a Plutocrat? The technology guys, | :56:25. | :56:33. | |
finance, absolutely, and then the emerging markets, ultra-well airs, | :56:33. | :56:38. | |
the -- Ultra-billionaires. He would say come on in. Is it the case that | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
these Plutocrats pay lower tax than their cleaners. That was the | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
rhetoric used by British politicians. It's a bit of rhetoric | :56:44. | :56:51. | |
that you are hearing around the world. Wairn Buffet has been | :56:51. | :56:57. | |
talking about his secretary pays taxes at a higher rate than he does | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
and Mitt Romney had to disclose his tax returns, 14% effective tax rate. | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
That's remarkable. In your view of the world and all the Plutocrats | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
you know, do you think it's true this argument that money trickles | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
down from the top that the reason we must welcome the uberrich is | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
that they'll spend money and we'll benefit? Is that true? I think we | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
will benefit but it's causing social afrpbgs at the same time. I | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
wrote a book called the Edwardian country house. That's when the idea | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
of the Plutocrat really first arose. I'm amazed that the world is | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
reverting to what it was at the beginning of the Twentieth Century. | :57:36. | :57:42. | |
Do you welcome it? No, I think these extremes of wealth are very | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
disconcerting and it's not the British way. When I left university | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
people had a spectrum of jobs they might choose and everybody would | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
roughly live the same sort of life. That's no longer the case. It | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
affects the choice my children make, for example. There are jobs up | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
there and others down there. Can I jump in? Of course. The Edwardian | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
comparison is fascinating and right on. What's so interesting is this | :58:05. | :58:10. | |
has happened to us before. It happened in the 19th century when | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
you had the Industrial Revolution, very similar actually, you know, | :58:15. | :58:18. | |
huge turbulent economic change, some people doing extremely well. | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
Some people did really badly. Whu think about it, it required this | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
tremendous social and political accommodation. Two world wars, a | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
Great Depression, Communist Revolutions in Russia and in China. | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
It's a very big thing. And in response, we invented what is | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
effectively modern society, right, the Wem fair state didn't exist | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
before that. -- welfare. The conclusion of my book is really to | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
point out to all of us, we are living in a similarly turbulent | :58:46. | :58:51. |