Browse content similar to 13/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. The economy might be | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
growing but there's no early cheer for public sector workers. Only a 1% | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
rise for most. That's about half the rate of inflation. David Cameron | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
says it's a fair deal. Some unions are already gunning for industrial | :00:50. | :00:57. | |
action. I have taken over the Daily Politics big board today and will | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
explain how the Liberal Democrats are trying to make taxes fairer. Is | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
this now the World's most famous dynasty? Is it the most talented? | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
We'll be talking to the Godfather. And want to know what MPs get up to | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
after dark? Adam's been to the Parliamentary Variety Show. Which | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
party do you think is more showbiz, more entertaining? I think they both | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
have a long way to go to reach a popular audience. | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
The mind boggles. All that in the next hour. With us for the whole | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
programme today is the former Conservative MEP, Stanley Johnson. | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
Welcome to the programme. Stanley also used to work for the World Bank | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
and the EU Commission. He's the father, I'm sure you know, of Boris | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
Johnson, the Mayor of London. He also used to be Chairman of the | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
Gorilla Organisation and is a keen environmentalist. And he also writes | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
books. He says about 24 of them. Anyway, colourful life. Anyway, | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
welcome to the programme. Now first today let's turn our attention to | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
Europe, because let's face it it's never out of the news these days. | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
Patrick O'Flynn from UKIP is also here. Welcome to the programme, | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
Patrick. Stanley Johnson, do we now know where we are in terms of what's | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
on offer from the parties? If the Tories win, there will be an in out | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
referendum, if Labour wins, there won't be apart from in exceptional | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
unlikely circumstances. That is a very fair, I think, explanation. The | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
Tories are committed to an in out referendum. I don't regard that with | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
any alarm at all and I am a committed European. I worked in the | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
commission. I have been a member of the European Parliament. I was a | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
member in the first election of 1979, when the Conservative Party | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
was gung ho for Europe and we had 61 Conservative MEPs. It's good for | :02:48. | :02:55. | |
David Cameron. It's high time we had an in out referendum. We have been | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
40 years waiting for it and, as far as I am concerned, we will win it to | :03:00. | :03:07. | |
stay in Europe. UKIP's Fox will be shot. The voters have a clear | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
choice. With the Tory offer, I think is used to say, terms and conditions | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
apply. The cast-iron guarantee of a referendum on Lisbon Treaty was | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
broken and voters are crossed Europe are used, if they get the wrong | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
result, two referendums and having to vote all over again. Are you | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
saying David Cameron, if he is Prime Minister again, it's not going to | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
happen? I don't trust him to keep the promise, let me make that | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
absolutely clear, but I can tell you I remember when I was a journalist | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
looking down at Prime Minister 's questions, and Eurosceptic | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
Conservative MPs asking him for an in out referendum, and him saying | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
it's not in the national interest. It was UKIP thumbscrews on David | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
Cameron which changed his mind and we are about but the thumbscrews on | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
Ed Miliband as well. I do think you can credit UKIP for the referendum. | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
You have to go back to Jimmy Goldsmith, frankly. He played an | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
enormous role. Keeping is out for the you talk about terms and | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
conditions applying. The Prime Minister said he will have | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
discussions with Europe, but go back to 1975 when Wilson had a | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
referendum. That change the perspective on the Labour Party | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
totally. The Labour Party came on board and the referendum was won by | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
a 2-1 vote. We can do that again. I'm not at all worried about these | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
negotiations Cameron has to have. Do you think they add up to a row of | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
beans? Do you think anything will be achieved or it's a bit of succour to | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
the Eurosceptics? Of course it is. Going back to 1975, Wilson went in, | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
the renegotiated, came back with a couple of things. Can anybody | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
remember what they wear? No, the fundamental issue was, was bred and | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
then a member of the European Union? The fundamental issue in 2017 is | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
going to be, will Britain stay in? By the way, there is an error in | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
people 's understanding. You don't have to have IGC negotiation before | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
you have the referendum. We never had that. You think there shouldn't | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
be that much reform? No, you don't have to pin down the camera on offer | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
in terms of something... That might be just as well because it clearly | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
doesn't want to be pinned down at all. You don't believe there's | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
anything in this renegotiation. Are you worried by businesses who've | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
come out quite strongly over the past few months saying the | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
referendum is causing uncertainty and they are worried it's also | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
preventing investment? Peter Mandelson and Roland Rudd have their | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
powers in the massive multinational corporations. They wanted Britain to | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
join the euro, and benefit from the endless stream of cheap labour, | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
despite often not paying much tax into the system themselves, and the | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
public are being fleeced. We cannot control our borders inside the | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
European Union. And that's why the UKIP message is spreading way | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
outside the Tory shires to the blue-collar workers and would-be | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
workers. It may be interesting to see what happens after the European | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
elections because, in terms of the consumer and the voter being | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
fleeced, we never get the concrete figures on what they are being | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
fleeced by in terms of money by the European Union. What do you say when | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
UKIP say it costs us billions of pounds to sign up to a unnecessary | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
regulation in Europe? I don't buy that argue didn't at all. I remember | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
a time when the British rebate was a really big issue and Mrs Thatcher | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
got the rebate and it is still in place. Yes, we... Nearly half of it | :06:52. | :07:00. | |
given away. We get huge amount back. Lord Ashcroft has done significant | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
polling saying the issue of Europe is just not that big a deal, which, | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
for you, is obviously clearly very disappointing. People are interested | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
in the economy. Good the Lord Ashcroft. Key member of the | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
Conservative Party. Since the last election, we have more than doubled | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
our membership, quadrupled our poll rating, and eightfold increase in | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
real elections, so something we are offering the British public is | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
clearly chiming and our membership figure is at an all-time record, | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
34,300. One thing you can't do is deliver on a referendum. That | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
presupposes the result of the next election and I'm telling you, | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
fundamental changes are happening. The Tories will deliver on it for | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
the Labour might. UKIP can't for them I think we can force Ed | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
Miliband to changes mind. That would be interesting to see. Stories that | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
Nigel Farage Barca boss private life have been all over the papers. How | :07:59. | :08:07. | |
damaging is that, to your campaign -- Nigel Farage's private life? Not | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
a lot, people are responding to our messages, principally, you can't | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
control your borders inside the European Union. Why are we giving | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
?55 million every single day to the European Union? How are you | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
responding to those stories? We are making the big issues available to | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
the British public. Large part of the establishment don't want that to | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
happen. Nigel Farage and Annabel Fuller had said these stories, made | :08:33. | :08:43. | |
by an embittered former MEP, whenever I see Nicky Sinclair's name | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
mentioned, I keep them peeled. We didn't Metallica news on the BBC | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
last night. I want to know why it was on the BBC Ten O'Clock News? I | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
don't think there would have them at any other political leader. That | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
would be arguable for them how are you going to persuade Ed Miliband? | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
We are going to put the UKIP thumbscrews on him, just like we did | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
to David Cameron, by taking loads and loads of people he has taken for | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
granted as Labour voters from him and loads of people he has taken for | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
granted as Labour voters from feminist party at the European | :09:17. | :09:18. | |
elections on May 22. Let's leave it there. Watch out, Ed Miliband! Now | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
it's time for our daily quiz. Regular viewers of the Daily | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
Politics will know we've taken a keen, some might say excessive, | :09:28. | :09:29. | |
interest in the rodent infestation over the road in the Palace of | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
Westminster. I mean, real rodents, of course. Some MPs thought the | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
answer was to get a cat. And we even had one of the contenders for the | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
job here in the studio. She was called Phoebe. But this morning we | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
learned that the House of Commons Commission, the committee that runs | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
the place, has banned Pheobe or any other cat from becoming mouser in | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
residence. But what's the reason? Stanley Johnson, I hope you are | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
listening. Is it: A) MPs were worried the cat would steal their | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
thunder? B) Speaker Bercow is allergic to cats? C) The cat might | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
get too fat on all the leftover food? Or D) The cat might scratch | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
the Queen's throne in the House of Lords At the end of the show Stanley | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
will give us the correct answer. Now according to the head of the British | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
Army, a moral disarmament in the West has resulted in a reluctance | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
for us to engage in conflicts. Speaking to the Foreign Affairs | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
think tank, Chatham House General Sir Peter Wall says that reluctance | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
will be exploited by Britain's enemies. So what is Britain's role | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
in the world and does our rhetoric outstrip our capability? Let's | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
listen to the Labour MP, John Woodcock, at yesterday's Prime | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
Ministers Questions. This week marks three years since the bloodshed | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
began in Syria. More than two-and-a-half million people have | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
fled the country and the dead can no longer even be counted. We must all | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
bear responsibility for our shameful failure to intervene. But they are | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
supposed to be the ones... They are the supposed be the ones running the | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
country. So what renewed effort will his Government make to end the | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
slaughter before all hope fails? Mr Speaker, he knows my own views. I | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
felt there was a case for intervention at the time when we | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
voted on this. And, of course, his party voted against it but if he now | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
wants to speak with his own party leadership upon that matter, he is | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
more than welcome to do so. I agree with him. The humanitarian | :11:27. | :11:28. | |
catastrophe there is of an unimaginable scale. We must do | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
everything we can to help. That is why I think I'm right in saying our | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
humanitarian effort there is now the largest this country has ever | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
delivered. And why also, the Home Secretary and others in Government | :11:41. | :11:42. | |
are administering, in conjunction with the United Nations, a new | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
programme where we allow the most destitute and desperate refugees | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
some refuge in this country, as well. Nick Clegg from the Deputy | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
Prime Minister 's questions yesterday. With us now is John | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
Woodcock. I was slightly surprised to hear raise the issue in the House | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
of Commons yesterday. What prompted you to do it? We are now entering | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
the fourth year of what is being a horrific conflict. We are in a | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
situation where Syria has faded from the musicals there was a flash point | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
at the vote, but the killing is going on daily, and I was privileged | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
to be part of a Parliamentary briefing where British Syrians came | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
in and talked about the horror in that country and I do think it | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
shames all of us that this has gone on for so long with such a level of | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
killing and we have not been prepared to do sufficient to shift | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
the balance. My surprises because Labour is very much blamed by the | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
Government, your leader's tactics as they were described, by Nick Clegg | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
David Cameron at the time, for blocking the motion that could pave | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
the way military action by Britain. Well, I don't think Parliament and | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
the Parliamentary process came out of that very well. Ed Miliband was | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
wrong, do you think? I did not oppose the Government motion. Like | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
most of the members of my party. But, actually, the person who I'm | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
most angry with is the British prime and is the British primers to David | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
Cameron because when you're in a position of leadership like that, | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
you have a responsibility to Marshall this through Parliament. | :13:25. | :13:27. | |
I'm afraid it was a cataclysmic failure of his process and | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
leadership which left us in a situation where we were not able to | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
leave the option even on the table, which Ed Miliband and the Labour | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
Party wanted. I have got to say, I truly disagree. I disagree because, | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
as a result of your party's decision, we actually got a very | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
good result. And a very good result was we were not forced to | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
intervene. We were not forced to line up behind the Americans and, as | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
a result of Cameron not getting that vote in the House of Commons, Barack | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
Obama felt he did not have to go to Congress and we did not have a | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
conflict... Was that the wrong decision? I think it was the right | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
decision. This was an achievement Cameron got by accident. He came in | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
from Cornwall, failed to get the vote, and now he has the luck to | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
have not got it. We can get embroiled in a discussion about the | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
intricacies of Parliamentary tactics, but I don't think anyone | :14:30. | :14:38. | |
can describe what is happening as a good result. It is appalling. You | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
are asking for intervention for that why can't intervene, in your mind | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
question there are far too many interventions without the cover of | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
international law. Afghanistan, Iraqi, Kosovo. You wouldn't have | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
liked the Government to have gone into Kosovo? No, under NATO mandate. | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
I believe in classic international law which says you go with votes of | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
the Security Council, you get your vote, and you move on that. They | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
would never have got away with it in Russia. That's life, you don't get | :15:15. | :15:22. | |
it. So what are you hoping for now, boots on the ground in Syria? There | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
was no question of that, and that was one of the failings that the | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
Government and the military were not able to give enough of a sense that | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
this was, partly, it ought to have been and could still be about taking | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
proper steps in the face of a leader using chemical weapons, for which | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
there was compelling evidence. But the other big failing that we have | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
allowed to happen is President Assad has been able to successfully | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
portray this, but Ray the opposition forces as even worse than what was | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
coming. -- portray. There are extremists, but they are not all the | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
same, and there are moderate forces who we should have been and could | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
still be supporting. Does it contribute to the idea that we are | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
weaker as a foreign policy powers that the quote from General Sir | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
Peter Wall, chief of the general staff, that there is a moral | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
disarmament, war weary Britain puts us at risk to our enemies? I would | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
rather hear him talk about the need for international backing when we | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
have intervention. It is absolutely fundamental, and it is really | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
worrying, the way the world and Britain has moved away from that. I | :16:43. | :16:45. | |
blame Tony Blair quite a lot for that, the speech he made in Chicago | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
and so on. On the chemicals point, let's face it, Vladimir Putin has | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
played a blinder. He has played a blinder. He put the chemicals offer | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
on the table in the press conference in Moscow, we picked it up, and it | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
has saved, I think, another conflict. There is a suggestion that | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
there is only 5% of the chemical weapons in Syria that have been | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
destroyed as a result of this. The idea that we have got rid of the | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
problem is bonkers. Well, let's look at how much weight we do have on the | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
international arena, with Ukraine, for example. Is William Hague doing | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
a good enough job in terms of appearing tough to stop that | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
escalating further? It is not going to be a boot on the ground | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
situation. Go back to 1994, we had the Budapest agreement, Britain and | :17:38. | :17:39. | |
the United States guaranteed, in some sense, Ukraine after it handed | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
back its nuclear weapons to Russia, so we have a real interest in | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
Ukraine. Realistically, you cannot have a war situation. I go slightly | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
back to the point I just made - it is all very well saying what Putin | :17:55. | :18:01. | |
is doing is illegal, it probably is, but many of the things we did | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
were totally illegal in international law. David Cameron is | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
in Israel, do think there has been enough coverage of that in terms of | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
quite a big set piece event, addressing the message to a standing | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
ovation? Lots of missiles! That short of overshadowed the news | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
agenda. We not interested enough in what Britain is doing on the foreign | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
stage because we do not count? I do not think it is because we do not | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
count. I can understand why, after a decade of war in Afghanistan, | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
without troops in the line of fire and many, many casualties, the | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
shadow of Iraq hangs over the political process here in | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
Westminster and the wider country. People are tired of what they see as | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
intervention, but we have so much to lose as a country if the lasting | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
effect of that is to diminish our influence. Briefly. Quick as a flash | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
on this one, I have just been to Colombia, I happened to have dinner | :19:03. | :19:09. | |
with William Hague in the embassy, he talked about what he was | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
interested in, he was getting on to Brazil. There is a wider dimensions, | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
there is a Latin American dimensions, and I would say William | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
Hague has been a brilliant Foreign Secretary. Thank you very much, John | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
Woodcock. The Daily Politics is a traditional programme, we cannot | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
afford not to be, so tight is the budget, and in the spirit of | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
tradition, we are bringing back something we have not seen for | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
donkeys years, the celebrity big board! I am delighted, because it | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
gives me a break! In a moment we will be hearing from the president | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron, but first a spot of | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
nostalgia. The crisis in some secondary schools | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
is obvious to anyone who looks. Just take a few facts. The Government is | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
continually missing its own targets. Only half of young people achieve a | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
five good GCSEs. The Government target is for 16 sent pupils to | :20:06. | :20:13. | |
achieve five good GCSEs by 2008. -- 60%. | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
If you want to offer every child the potential to fulfil, you have to | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
start early, so our aim is simple, to give a helping hand to parents | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
and create a society where every young person, no matter what their | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
background, get a decent start in life. | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
How we provide education and opportunity for children with | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
learning difficulties and disabilities is a vitally important. | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
These children include some of the most vulnerable in the country. | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
Their families often struggle to bring them up and get what they | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
need. Well, that takes you back! That | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
kick-started a certain Prime Minister's rapid rise through the | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
ranks. David Cameron, Ed Davey, Ruth Kelly performing their education big | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
boards, and now Tim Farron has this message on tax ahead of the Budget. | :21:04. | :21:10. | |
Back in 2010, one of Nick Clegg's key election promises was to raise | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
the income tax threshold to ?10,000 per year, a tax cut of ?700 for 25 | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
million people. At the time, David Cameron said the idea was | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
unaffordable, but from next month it becomes a reality. In fact, the | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
Conservatives liked the policy so much, they like to pretend it was | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
their idea in the first place. The Liberal Democrats have fought hard | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
for this and taken 2.7 million of the lowest paid workers out of | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
income tax altogether. 25 million people have received a cut. And | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
there is more to come. Ahead of the Budget next week, the Lib Dems want | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
to go even further and turn this ?700 into ?800, a worker's bonus, | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
meaning you would only start paying tax over ?10,500 per year. | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
Meanwhile, the Tories came into government arguing for a tax cut for | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
married couples and a reduction in inheritance tax for millionaires. | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
Labour is still a blank sheet of paper. Let's not forget, in | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
government they scrap the 10p rate. Ultimately, the Liberal Democrats | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
want to see no-one paying income tax on the first 12 -- ?12,500. Someone | :22:16. | :22:24. | |
currently earning minimum wage would not pay any income tax at all. How | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
was that, Jo? Very good, you will put me out of a | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
job! Tim Farron, come and sit down with the rest of us, we are also | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
joined by Pat McFadden of the Treasury Select Committee. Just to | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
say, the Tories and Labour will be delivering their big boards next | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
week. I do not know if it is you, it may fall to some other lucky person! | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
It is your idea, is it, raising the threshold? Your idea entirely, the | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
Liberal Democrats, the Conservatives 42 and nail? It is true! I remember | :22:58. | :23:05. | |
the debates before the last election when Nick Clegg proclaimed the | :23:06. | :23:07. | |
policy, David Cameron said, do not be silly, you cannot afford it. Lord | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
Ashcroft spend his money on polling rather than supporting the Tory | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
party, and he has discovered it is a popular policy, so the Conservatives | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
tried to claim it. We have to accept that is how it is in coalition, we | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
are pleased we managed to get this through. You can probably claim it | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
was your policy bearing in mind those debates, but once in | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
coalition, did they fight you choose and nail not to have it as a policy? | :23:35. | :23:43. | |
Yes, during the Budget that was known by a phrase, the | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
omnishambles, the subtext was a scrap over the Tories wanting to cut | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
the top rate of income tax to 40p, and the Lib Dems wanting to up the | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
threshold. And we fought very hard for that to the extent that Osborne | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
demanded that reduction of the top rate. It serves you well to claim | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
you have to fight for it, it has been denied by Iain Duncan Smith and | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
Matt Hancock yesterday. You can just show the video of David Cameron | :24:17. | :24:23. | |
saying, we are not doing it, it is a daft idea. I think it is help for | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
the low paid, but you have to consider more than one tax rate. The | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
IFS, when they add all the tax and benefit changes together, have said | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
families are ?900 was off. You cannot take one tax and say that is | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
the only thing that affects incomes. When I looked at the figures in the | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
presentation about ?700 better off, ?800, as anyone on a minimum wage if | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
they feel ?800 better off. It is polling very well according to Tim | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
Farron. They will not because of the combined effect of the tax and | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
benefit changes, and the big priority for the government, Tim | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
mentioned a bust up over the top rate, but it was reduced, a ?3 | :25:06. | :25:14. | |
billion tax cut for people earning over ?150,000 per year. I know there | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
is a disagreement over how much tax that will make. We have said, | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
looking back on our experience in government, we would reintroduce the | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
10p rate. We think it is a good way to help the low paid, and what we | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
would want to be judged on us all the tax and benefit changes put | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
together, not just taking one tax change and not taking into account | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
everything else that has been done on VAT, tax rate and all the rest of | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
it. I would like to kick in, far be it from me to question the coalition | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
partners are anything like that, but there is another aspect of this, | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
which is you do not want to finance everything through hitting the | :25:54. | :25:55. | |
middle classes more. I think what we are seeing now gets a bit technical, | :25:56. | :26:02. | |
fiscal drag, and actually, if you don't lower the limit at which you | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
kick in with the 40% tax rate, more and more people are going to be | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
hitting it. Let's talk about that, why isn't that being looked at? | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
There is a big call from a number of MPs, more people are being dragged | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
into that 40% bracket. That is going to make them worse off. Including | :26:24. | :26:31. | |
the Tube train drivers, Bob Crow, should they be paying that? Any | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
government is going to have difficult choices in this. To help | :26:39. | :26:46. | |
one group, it is more difficult to help another. This fiscal drag is | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
happening, the not particularly wealthy are being dragged into it, | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
but if you are going to prioritise a tax cut for somebody, it cannot be | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
everybody, it is about choices. So you would see more people included | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
in that 40% bracket? I am not saying that, but the more you pile on to a | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
tax cut in one area, the more difficult it is to give one | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
elsewhere. In a weight we are quibbling about a mouse, because if | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
you look at the report from the Institute of economic affairs, there | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
is no way at all that you can fund the current anticipated pensions out | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
of current earnings, so you have huge things ever view and the | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
government has to do have major spending commitments. -- ahead of | :27:34. | :27:41. | |
you. The cost of raising the allowance was said to cost ?3.2 | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
billion, very expensive. But it has been very impactful in terms of an | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
uplift in the economy, because if you give people more money in their | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
pockets, they tend to spend it. That is why consumer spending has | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
increased? It is part of the reason, and the reality is we have to get | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
the balance right. We were right not to do what Ed Balls told us to do | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
and ignore the deficit. We would have been wrong to do what George | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
Osborne wanted to do, cut more money out than was necessary. We were | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
right to put money into the pockets of people on low and middle | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
incomes. What about the mansion tax? You are both in favour, so if it | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
came to another coalition with the Conservatives, would it rule you | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
out? Would you insist on it or would it be debatable? One of the things | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
we learned from the last coalition agreement... You do not get what you | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
want! You have to go into the coalition knowing what you want, | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
knowing that if you get 100% of your manifesto through and you have only | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
got a quarter of the money, that would be unfair. The mansion tax, | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
the Tories do not like the idea. I think you have got to rebrand it. | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
There is a case for having another look at the banding... You would | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
have to do that in order to introduce a mansion tax. You might | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
have do. Is it a local governments tax or a national tax? It is | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
probably not right that a house costing ?84 million should be paying | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
the same tax as a house costing ?800,000. That doesn't seem to be | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
right to me. That does not mean I am in favour of a mansion tax, it would | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
not out hundreds or thousands of property owners in London who have a | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
property, saved up to bite, could not conceivably pay that tax. We are | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
going to turn to public sector pay will stop oh, right! Public sector | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
staff will get a below inflation pay rise, the Government says it is to | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
keep more people employed, but Unison say they are appalled at the | :29:50. | :29:58. | |
decision. Here is David Cameron. For NHS staff are worth the 1% pay rise | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
and everybody will get at least 1%. Either through the rays or through | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
the progression payments that they otherwise receive. Let's look at the | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
big picture here. It is right to make difficult decisions about | :30:12. | :30:13. | |
public sector pay. It's good that it's increasing and not frozen but | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
it's right to take these difficult decisions because it means we can | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
keep more people employed. More people in work and we can make sure | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
we spend money on vital treatments, on hospitals and on delivering | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
services which is what patients so desperately want. It apply to | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
continue with public sector pay restraint? It is. The question of | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
whether it is fair or not, it deserves more than 1%, ensure they | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
do, and it can come at a time like this, can we afford it? I thought | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
things were looking up? We are told endlessly by your colleagues and the | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
Conservatives the economy is going to start to recover for the why | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
can't everybody else have a pay rise? It would be stupid to be | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
complacent about that. In inflation and unemployment is coming down. | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
Great signs but we still owe ?1 trillion. We are not out of the | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
woods at all. So the public sector will suffer? We can't end up in a | :31:12. | :31:18. | |
situation where there will be run on markets, a lack of confidence, 7% | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
interest rates. When a slightly higher pay rise result in that? | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
Public expenditure and that's the case. You agreed with freezing | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
public sector pay and were continuing with it. You are signed | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
up to this policy. I think, if you got a choice between jobs or pay | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
rises, jobs is the way to go. We're in the position of continued | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
restraint because the Government has found much more difficult than they | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
predicted to get the deficit down. It has lasted a lot longer through | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
this Parliament, still higher than they predicted, and they've also | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
spent billions on an NHS reorganisation that no one wanted, | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
so if I wasn't NHS worker right now, I would look at the money spent | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
on the reorganisation, and then look at the signals being sent to me on | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
my pay packet. We are predicted to be the fastest-growing economy in | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
the West this year, so what you mean the policy resulted in conditions | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
like this question in 2010, borrowing was predicted to be much | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
lower than is now. We had three years of no growth. I welcome the | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
growth but it's delayed, and no reason to pop out the champagne | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
corks. Do NHS staff not deserve more than 1% pay rise? I think we have to | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
hold back on spending in the NHS. I'm not talking the party line here | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
but I personally do not believe it should be ring fenced. I don't | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
believe you can do that. I don't begin make sense to say, now we're | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
going to continue with a cast-iron ring fence of the NHS. Looking back | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
over the last five years, one of the big mistakes, I think, is, when it | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
came to the negotiations of public sector, over the increase in | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
retirement age, we backed off. That was a huge mistake. It is the cost | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
of these pensions which is going to really cripple us. The message to | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
the unions who will be balloting their staff? And workers about this | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
pay rise? What do you say to them as they go for industrial action? I | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
hope it doesn't result in industrial action but I do understand why | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
workers are angry after year India's pay restraint. In the NHS, seeing | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
money going on the reorganisation nobody wanted. I hope the unions | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
understand that, too, and they understand the reason we are going | :33:43. | :33:51. | |
through this because the previous Government did this. Thank you very | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
much for that. Now forget the Gandhis, the Grimaldis, the Hanovers | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
and the Sauds. Today it's all about the Johnson Dynasty. So who exactly | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
is Stanley Johnson, and why does he have so many famous children? Is it | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
in the genes? What did he give them for breakfast? Here's our David on | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
the House of Johnson. THEME FROM DYNASTY. | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
This is the story of a family. A dynasty at the heart of the | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
political establishment driven by power, ambition and big, big hair. | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
They are the Johnsons. There's dad, Stanley. He is a former MEP, who | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
worked for the World Bank, and stood for Parliament unsuccessfully as a | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
Tory candidate. I think the whole thing is a racket. Sister Rachel is | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
a former editor of the Lady magazine, a columnist and never | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
short of an opinion or three. David Cameron even though he is taller, | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
looks at Boris as if he is still head boy. Leo shuns the limelight. | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
He's the one in orange but he, too, is a high-flyer, an expert in | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
sustainability. And then, of course, there's the other one. Former Tory | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
MP, Mayor of London, star of quizzes, and possibly future | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
Conservative leader or even perhaps Prime Minister. The normal laws of | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
political gravity don't apply for him, but just what is it about the | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
Johnson family? I think they are very exceptional. Astonishingly | :35:16. | :35:23. | |
competitive, nomadic. Hardy. Determined to tell every possible | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
joke on every possible occasion. I can't think of anyone quite like | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
them. Now, there is another brother and he is on Boris's turf. Joe | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
Johnson is the Conservative MP for Orpington, head of David Cameron's | :35:38. | :35:40. | |
number ten policy unit and perhaps something of a dark horse. | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
Joe is a brilliant man. He's played it completely differently to Boris. | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
He has never given an interview to a national newspaper despite having | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
worked as a journalist himself so he's an insider, hoping to work out | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
what is going to be in the Tory manifesto. There is Boris performing | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
to audiences of millions. And delighting people by going on | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
programmes like Have I Got News For You. So completely different | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
tactics, but they are both very, very serious, seriously competitive | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
figures, who want to get to the top. But it would appear, in a family | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
like the Johnsons, there can only be one leader. One who appointed | :36:20. | :36:26. | |
himself that at a very early age. They are very loyal to each other | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
and I think they do care about each other but I think, of course, there | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
is sibling rivalry. Boris is winning. Boris wants to go on | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
winning. He announced at a very early age he intended to be world | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
king, and so far, he has stayed ahead. Who knows what I had for the | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
Johnson clan? World King might seem a little ambitious, even for someone | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
as confident as Boris. With this family, you just never know. Stanley | :36:49. | :36:58. | |
Johnson cringing during that. You're watching the Daily Politics and | :36:59. | :37:01. | |
we've been joined by viewers in Scotland who have been watching | :37:02. | :37:03. | |
First Minister's Questions from Holyrood. Why are you such a | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
successful high achieving family? I want to make a point for the record | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
here and that is there is also Leo Johnson, a seriously high achiever | :37:12. | :37:18. | |
with PwC, Price Waterhouse. There is Julia Johnson, a fabulous singer and | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
teacher of Latin, Max Johnson, who works the Goldman Sachs in Hong | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
Kong. What is your secret? When people say I am Boris's dad, I have | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
to say I'm lots of people's dad and I'm proud of them all. As for the | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
secret, there is no secret at all. My view was, send the ball off to | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
good schools, and let the good schools to the hard grind. So you | :37:45. | :37:51. | |
handle it over to somebody else. What about the description of how | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
competitive, all the siblings are. Does that help produce high | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
achievers? It's rubbish. Total rubbish. OK, they might say who can | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
get the biggest fish cake when fishcakes come through the hatch? | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
There was a moment when the was a competition and that was who could | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
eat the mince pie quickest? It was a Christmas mince pie. Boris grabbed | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
it and ate it and he burned his throat. Did he learn a moral for | :38:21. | :38:27. | |
life as a result of that? Mince pies, if they are too hard, I think | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
there's a wider lesson there if you have mince pies. What about the | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
nomadic side? My life has been constantly on the move. The World | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
Bank, United Nations, the EU, for the last 15 years, I had been | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
travelling around the world. Two weeks ago, I was in Colombia. I had | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
a nice meeting with William Hague and that keeps me going. I write | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
books mainly about what the world needs to do about the environment. | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
Nomadic is fine for the I get back to life time to time, especially by | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
masks the car on the Daily Politics show. Now let's talk a little bit | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
about Boris. You love your children equally, but when it comes to | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
Boris, how likely do think he will be at number ten? You have slightly | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
sprung this one on me, I have to say. My line is very clear. Michael | :39:16. | :39:26. | |
Cockerill, he recorded me saying that, where there ever to be a | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
leadership contest in the Conservative Party, then I think it | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
would be a fair reflection of the current situation if Boris at least | :39:35. | :39:41. | |
good be one of the candidates. That is what I think. What about changing | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
the rules? I don't think you have to change the rules for them as I | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
recall it, for example, in 1960, 63, Alex Douglas whom were certainly not | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
a member of the House of Commons, yeti was able to stand in a contest | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
for them are not an expert on the rules. OK, we don't do smoke-filled | :40:00. | :40:06. | |
rooms any longer but I can't believe there might not be a way of ensuring | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
that if Boris is not an MP, was still the Mayor of London, | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
nevertheless they could be a formula which says elected Mayers or elected | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
personages are also entitled to put their names forward. What about Joe? | :40:18. | :40:27. | |
Go for it. Here's the 2010 vintage. I read its a very fine vintage. A | :40:28. | :40:34. | |
fine claret or a fine wine. Yes, it's not for me. I look with joy and | :40:35. | :40:43. | |
gladness at all of this. Thank you. I'm sorry if we sprung out on you. | :40:44. | :40:50. | |
Now, to cull badgers or not to cull badgers. MPs are debating two | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
controversial pilot schemes today, critics say they're ineffective and | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
inhumane. Well, our Adam's been talking to two MPs who have rather | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
strong views. So DEFRA has been trialling the idea | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
of a badger cull into areas in England. In Gloucestershire and | :41:07. | :41:08. | |
Somerset. The results of an independent assessment of that have | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
been leaked and it suggests that didn't go that well. It's now going | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
to the subject of a Parliamentary debate. A motion laid by the Green | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
MP Caroline Lucas who joins us alongside the Tory MP Simon Hart who | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
used to run the Countryside Alliance. Caroline, why do we need | :41:23. | :41:24. | |
yet another Parliamentary debate about the issue of badgers? I think | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
really the debate because it's absolutely crucial that the | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
Government is held to account on the results of the pilots which have | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
taken place so far. And it doesn't push ahead with yet more culls | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
without looking at the evidence. The evidence has already been leaked by | :41:42. | :41:43. | |
the independent panel, demonstrates that, even by the government's own | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
estimates, it's been a spectacular failure. It is meant to cull 70% | :41:47. | :41:55. | |
within six weeks and even extending both periods meant that those | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
targets were not met and it was opposed the measure effectiveness | :42:00. | :42:02. | |
and humaneness. On both counts, the evidence from them shows it was not | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
met, so given the evidence, if God be the case of the Government looks | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
to alternative measures. A combination of badger vaccinations, | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
restricting cattle movements, I/O Security, testing. That is how to | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
protect cattle and badgers. The report was leaked. It's not the real | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
deal yet. Are you jumping the gun? We can see those periods were | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
extended and we know that those targets were not met. And we also | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
know that culling can only reduce the incidence by 12%-16%. That is | :42:39. | :42:49. | |
what the randomised cull showed. Even if all of the other things were | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
equal, you would only reduce the incidence by 12%-16%. There are much | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
more effective ways of doing it. Simon, we don't have the full | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
picture although Caroline has given a lot of statistics which paint a | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
damning picture about this idea of culling. Some of what Caroline says | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
is right. We don't know the context of the report by the gall of those | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
measures, of course, it's a package of things needed to eradicate it. No | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
one will say culling will do it on its own but everyone to reduced by | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
just a few percentage points, then culling will have its part. Of | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
course, we will learn lessons. It wasn't perfect for the nobody is | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
claiming that. There were lots of reasons for that. We are pointing in | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
the right direction and it's important we look of a welfare | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
issues for badgers and cattle. There's a economic impact here, too. | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
And, of course, taxpayers fork note 100 million pound a year for this. | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
We have to do eradicate it. They are managing that in Ireland because | :43:56. | :43:58. | |
they have a properly sustained inhumane and cull. How does is | :43:59. | :44:06. | |
actually affect farmers? You can lose 20%, half of your dairy herd | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
overnight if you test positive. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
heartbreaking sight when you're cattle you have bred with love are | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
literally taken away for slaughter. Some have to be slaughtered on the | :44:22. | :44:23. | |
yard because they are pregnant. It damages your whole milk production, | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
you can't sell your milk, get rid of your cattle. It's a devastating | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
thing. It's been going on 30 years and we are still no further forward | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
and we have to bring this to a close sensibly. Work together and not use | :44:38. | :44:45. | |
this as a tribal warfare between us. Is this tribal warfare ever going to | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
come to an end? I think it's not looking at the evidence. My heart | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
goes out to those farmers and my concern is making sure we have a | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
good policy. To protect farmers and cattle and the badgers for them the | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
evidence is, the culling does not work so let's look at alternatives. | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
Thank you for joining us. Lots of very passionate argument that we're | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
going to hear this afternoon in House of Commons as MPs discuss what | :45:10. | :45:18. | |
to do about badgers and bovine TB. I am in a dilemma here, I am a great | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
fan of Caroline Lucas, it is superb we have got a green MP, apropos the | :45:23. | :45:29. | |
issue itself, I have a farm on Exmoor. We have had a cull, not in | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
the last run, about ten years ago. I think a lot of what Simon said was | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
right, but the real issue is the suffering of the badgers. A diseased | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
badgers suffers terribly. We need to make a huge effort on the vaccine, | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
that is honestly a desperate, desperate, urgent need. I will make | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
one point if I may, a more or less funny point. This morning as I | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
picked up the Guardian, which I do read from time to time, David | :46:00. | :46:06. | |
McIntosh, a marksman, in a court in Gloucestershire, he was asked to pay | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
a ?91 fine. Why? Because he drove a van full of dead badgers into a bus | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
stop. Why was it full of dead badgers? Because the police radio | :46:18. | :46:25. | |
got under his accelerator pedal. Why did he have a police radio? That is | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
a mystery! Were the police in contact with him? In treating! -- in | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
treating! From next month, Powys county | :46:35. | :46:45. | |
council takes over from the Office of estate agents, so if you have a | :46:46. | :46:56. | |
problem like this, you know who to go to. | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
It is a perfect place to escape the modern world, a deserted coastline | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
with the vast skies, dotted with tiny period cottages. You might be | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
tempted by this former fisherman's house. After all, the estate agent | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
called it an opportunity not to be missed. But if this is your dream | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
home, well, meet your future neighbour, the Dungeness nuclear | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
power station. But these estate agent's details make no mention at | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
all of the power station, and all the photographs of the cottage have | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
all been taken from the one place where it cannot be seen looming in | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
the background. Neither estate agent selling the property would comments | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
today. I bet they wouldn't! We are joined | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
by the chair of the national trading standards board and James full sight | :47:43. | :47:48. | |
of the Spectator. So the job of regulating estate agents will fall | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
to local authorities, why? The Government has changed the consumer | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
landscape, a this was a function which it previously administered, | :47:59. | :48:12. | |
and it had to go somewhere. We operate through local authority | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
trading standards departments. We went through a tendering process, | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
Powys was the successful bidder. Buying a house or flat is probably | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
the biggest purchase most people make in our lives, and added to that | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
estate agents are not a profession with an unblemished reputation. You | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
want the most rigorous and strongest protections. Also, it is very hard | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
to see how Powys county council can be aware of particular problems that | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
might be affecting the market in Bristol or London, and so I | :48:43. | :48:49. | |
think... So you are calling for a more decentralised set up? Either | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
that or a national setup. IU downgrading the role? It sounds like | :48:58. | :49:04. | |
an esoteric decision to put a national thing in Powys but why not | :49:05. | :49:12. | |
somewhere else? All we are doing is following through the estate agency | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
act, the estate agents act, which is 35 years old. Estate agencies were | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
very different then. The power it gives is to ban somebody from acting | :49:25. | :49:30. | |
as an estate agent. It does not say, we are stamping them with our | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
approval. This is a function that can be carried out more or less | :49:34. | :49:40. | |
anywhere. Will it give the consumer the same protection? It is the same | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
function, my concern is that the estate agents act of 1979 is 35 | :49:45. | :49:50. | |
years old, and I do not know how many properties you have purchased | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
in the last 35 years, but you will have noticed how the markets has | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
changed dramatically. We have now got estate agents to act both for | :49:59. | :50:05. | |
the seller and for the purchaser, a built in conflict of interest. This | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
ought to be regulated but we have not got the framework. I would feel | :50:09. | :50:15. | |
the same if they had ascended to Bedfordshire or Buckinghamshire. I | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
think Lord Harris is right is that you need proactive regulation in | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
that you need people to be acting against estate agents that are known | :50:25. | :50:27. | |
to be involved in sharp practice. You want somebody saying, we will | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
address that problem. I do not see how, in Powys, with the best will in | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
the world, they can be aware of problems across the nation. These | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
cases where somebody is struck off, they are generated locally. The | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
local trading standards department with local knowledge will pick this | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
up and refer it up. Usually, these are people with a track record of | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
bad behaviour. This is not a case of the last quango in Powys... Well | :50:55. | :51:02. | |
done, you got the line out! I have met the staff will be taking on the | :51:03. | :51:05. | |
function, they are dedicated, determined, and they want to deliver | :51:06. | :51:12. | |
the best they can. They are doing it on a shoestring budget. It seems to | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
me that considering the size of the market, to spend only ?170,000 on | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
regulating every estate agent does not seem a proportionate response. | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
If anyone has a problem, write to you two about it! Thank you very | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
much. We are told, although it might just | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
be a vicious rumours spread by Westminster gossipmongers, but it | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
was a bad night for London's West End. Les Miserables, The Mousetrap | :51:38. | :51:45. | |
and The 39 Steps were performing to empty houses because talented MPs | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
were performing at the annual big cabaret bash for Macmillan Cancer | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
Support, and Adam had tickets to the hottest show in town. | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
The nights that politics goes a bit spangly. I wonder how many seconds | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
it will be before someone says... Politics is show business for ugly | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
people. It is a good cause, a bit of fun, all politicians are show-offs. | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
Who is the most talented member of the Cabinet? That is a loaded | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
question! The Prime Minister! Have you ever seen him do singing or tap | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
dancing? Not singing or tap dancing, that wasn't the question you asked! | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
I answered in my best diplomatic style. What public figure would | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
humiliate themselves for free? This is all in the name of a good cause, | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
in this case Macmillan Cancer. Some people have paid five grand for a | :52:41. | :52:42. | |
table here. Things got off to a jazzy start with | :52:43. | :52:54. | |
Lib Dem MP John Hemming on piano, alongside the very tall Jesse | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
Norman, performing a ditty composed by Lord Glassman, putting the blues | :53:01. | :53:09. | |
into blue Labour. The truth of the matter is that, actually, these days | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
are thrilled to find politicians do other things than just pontificate | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
about things they do not know much about. Politicians playing jazz is | :53:17. | :53:23. | |
an insult to jazz. Lord Lothian looked like he should be in a Greek | :53:24. | :53:26. | |
to burn until it turned out he is actually amazing, performing along | :53:27. | :53:36. | |
with his daughter! -- Taverna. Do you have any groupies? Not that I | :53:37. | :53:42. | |
know! Lord Dobbs showed us what it would be like if Noel Coward did the | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
international news. # How long can we wait until | :53:49. | :53:56. | |
Brussels puts a cap on it? Then it was the House of Commons | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
band who reckon they have raised about ?1 million for charity since | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
forming a decade ago. # So Sally can wait... | :54:07. | :54:14. | |
While Baroness Knights did a brilliant impression of my Gran | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
after a few sherries. When you and I were young... | :54:18. | :54:38. | |
Handling them, the man management is always a problem, people being ill, | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
people dropping numbers, changing numbers, even on the night. I am not | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
singing that now! So they are slightly devious. I thought I would | :54:48. | :54:56. | |
sing something else! And some recently reshuffled ministers trying | :54:57. | :55:03. | |
to sing through the pain. # Today is the day the Government | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
likes to shuffle... Normally I would sum up with | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
something sarcastic but heart-warming, but how can I compete | :55:11. | :55:19. | |
with any of this talented bunch?! You cannot compete, certainly not | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
with that last bit, and Goldilocks, dare I say it, is with us now, | :55:25. | :55:31. | |
although not in costume! A shame! I was actually dead to sort of Sid | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
there demurely in Prime Minister's Questions with that we're gone, but | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
I don't think I will. I do not think they would let you in! I should | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
introduce you as Michael Fabricant! It was a great night, and importance | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
night, we raised about ?100,000 for Macmillan Cancer Support, and it is | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
a marvellous charity. Do you wish you were there? I wish I was! I went | :55:58. | :56:04. | |
up to Lichfield talking about HS2, not now! We have not got enough | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
time! What would your turn the, if you were doing a turn? I would like | :56:11. | :56:18. | |
to seeing Hey Jude, but I have never got to the end. -- sing. We might be | :56:19. | :56:26. | |
able to arrange that! What was the highlight for you? This might be a | :56:27. | :56:29. | |
downer, but it was a young man who got up and said, my wife, when she | :56:30. | :56:36. | |
was pregnant, got cancer. Whoever thinks of a pregnant young woman | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
getting cancer? And we learned, we all know that Macmillan do a great | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
job for people with cancer, but they actually look after the families | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
when there has been a bereavement, and I didn't know that. I thought | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
that was very valuable. It was not a highlight in the sense of enjoyment, | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
but that was the overriding thing. And entertainment highlight was, I | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
think, Lord Colwyn with his jazz bands doing traditional jazz, which | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
I love, Jesse Norman was absolutely superb on the trumpet. Were you | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
surprised about the talents of? I thought Jesse Norman was going to | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
sing, I had no idea. Lots of MPs blow their trumpets! Some are better | :57:23. | :57:24. | |
at it than others, so make more noise. Someone said to me, if you do | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
not blow your own trumpet, someone else will use it as a spittoon. Who | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
would you like to see on stage next year? Someone whose talents I know | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
nothing about, like Jesse Norman. It is amazing that these things come | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
out of the woodwork, presumably a lot of MPs and Lords are either | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
musical or talented actors and actresses. You say would work, I | :57:51. | :57:58. | |
think that is very unkind! Apropos the question of the mouse... We will | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
come to the mouse in a moment! Do you know what is going on?! He has | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
just reminded me! Thank you very much for taking part. Before we go, | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
as Stanley has reminded me, the quiz, MPs have been told they cannot | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
have a cat in the Commons to deal with the mouse problem, it is the | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
best way, but why not? Because it would steal their thunder, the | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
speaker is allergic, it might get too fat, or it might scratch the | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
throne? Do you want to ask Michael? You are the guest. It is the throne, | :58:33. | :58:38. | |
I am 100% sure, possible damage to the Heritage. You are 100% wrong, it | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
is the leftover food! You don't get a prize, I am afraid. That is all | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
for today, thank you for being our guest. Andrew is back after Question | :58:49. | :58:50. | |
Time. Bye-bye! | :58:51. | :58:53. |