04/10/2016: Conservative Party Conference Daily Politics


04/10/2016: Conservative Party Conference

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Welcome to day three of the Conservative Party conference

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here in Birmingham, where, as Prime Minister, Theresa May

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was doing the rounds of broadcasters to flesh out her particular brand

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of Conservatism, the pound plunged to a 31 year low

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Welcome to this Daily Politics Conference Special -

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live from the Tory party conference here in Brum.

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Yesterday the Chancellor tried to reassure markets that he knew

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what he was doing when it came to Brexit,

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by making clear he wasn't a hardliner on the issue.

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The exchange markets took fright and sterling plunged.

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She failed to bring down net migration as Home Secretary...

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Can Theresa May be any more successful at controlling

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The Defence Secretary says that in future our armed forces will be

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exempt from the jurisdiction of the European Court of

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Human Rights in some circumstances - will this put an end to the flurry

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Also this afternoon - transatlantic political allegiances.

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Conservatives have traditionally supported the Republicans,

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Labour, the Democrats - but what about in next month's

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We send Adam out with his balls - would they plump

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You know Ed wasn't their first choice for Strictly, they were going

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to ask Jeremy Corbyn to do it, but somebody told them he had two left

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feet! And there are polite

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chuckles in the hall, Now, the Prime Minister has said

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there will be "bumps in the road" as we negotiate our exit

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from the EU and build Chancellor Philip Hammond's went

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further warning of "turbulence" and a "rollercoaster" ride

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for the economy. The exchange markets took him

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at his word this morning when they opened and placed

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sterling on a rollercoaster, heading down to its lowest level

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against the dollar in 31 years. Here's what Theresa May had to say

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on ITV earlier today. This isn't about saying well we're

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coming out of the European Union, but what bits of men should do we

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keep? It's saying when we leave the European Union it will be that

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independent, sovereign country and we will be negotiating a new

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relationship with the European Union. It won't be plain sailing,

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there will be some bumps in the road as we go through this process. The

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economic data we've seen so far in the last few weeks has been more

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positive than people were expecting. It is early days but it has been

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more positive than people were expecting. But I recognise the

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concern business has, wanting to see a smooth process as we go through

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these negotiations. We're joined now by Kate McCann

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of the Telegraph and Sam Mr Hammond the new Chancellor, meant

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to be a reassuring figure, an accountant, safe pair of hands but

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the exchange markets didn't think so? I think what's been going on is

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the markets have been broadly doing what the rest of us are trying to

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do, trying to work out the nature of Brexit that we are going to have. We

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are in a world where we have very few hard facts. We know the timing

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of Article 50 but few details on the relationship Britain will have with

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its closest neighbours and the rest of the world going forward. What

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happened is the financial markets, broadly speaking, slightly out of

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touch with the direction of travel of this government over the last few

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weeks. It's been fairly clear to me we are heading to the sum had

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Brexit, we won't stay in the single market, we will probably come out of

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the customs union. There will be some kind of agreement between the

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UK on the European union block, to some extent. And the markets in the

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last 36-48 hours have woken up to that fact. Talking to traders on

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Friday they said around the world there was a general misconception of

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where we were going to end up on Brexit. I think the comments of

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Theresa May yesterday and on Sunday have really put that to rest. That's

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why we're getting such a sharp correction at this point. Can they

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just shrug it off? We have a floating exchange rate now, we've

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had one for years and years. Sterling goes up and down. Many

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people thought it was overvalued anyway before the referendum. Or do

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they start to get worried, because it will feed through into prices? It

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well. The people who start to get worried will be us, people who it

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matters to day today. It is worrying when you don't know the implications

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of what it means, but what it does mean is anyone going on holiday to

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America will be in a worse off position than they were before.

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Before the vote we had these warnings. Chuka Umunna today warning

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this means people will be worse off. They will feel their pound is worth

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less in their pocket. That will cause people to stop and pause and

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wonder if to buy or sell a house, or if to put that decision. That will

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have a bigger and slower impact on what we are seeing today. The FTSE

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100 is going through the roof at the moment, over 7000 and still rising.

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Most people have their pensions and FTSE 100 companies, so to some

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extent that is good news. But a big chunk of the FTSE are companies that

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operate abroad, so when sterling goes down, they often do much better

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because their foreign exchange then turns into sterling at a much better

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rate. So it doesn't tell you that much? There are a range of

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indicators we can look at. A lot of people think the FTSE 100 is to

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short term to draw big conclusions from. What indicators and my most

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interested in? I think in the next few months we will get more of a

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settled sense of which direction this country is going in. The

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numbers I will be looking at other ones published on November 23 by the

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office the budget responsibility, will set up the predicted rates for

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this country going forward, and critically the tax revenue the

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Exchequer is expected to receive every year. This is the people at

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home is the most important consequence of what is going on

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here. Talking to the ISS and people in government, there is a widespread

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assumption that by the time we get to 2020, you are perhaps looking at

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15-20 or ?25 billion less tax revenue year. That's when it starts

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getting tangible for people at home. Currency is one thing, but when

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there is less money for schools and hospitals, when departmental budgets

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will be hit, I think that's when people watching this programme are

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going to most notice the consequence of Brexit. There is another side of

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the argument, people who supported leaving the European Union at this

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conference saying traditional bodies like the Institute for Fiscal

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Studies are being too downbeat and not seeing the advantages that will

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come from being a free trading nation, but it will come down to

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cold hard economic reality. Other deals we can do now, will they

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compensate for the loss people think we will see? It is a big question

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and markets today seem to have taken a rather pessimistic medium-term

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view. Most people think forecasters get it wrong, that's a problem. OBR

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often gets it wrong. Yes, and we are at the start of a very slow process.

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We haven't triggered Article 50 yet or left the EU yet, so goodness

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knows what happens when we do. That's usually written into market

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indicators. The problem we will have as this goes on, if Theresa May's

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government decides to continue this kind of line of Brexit, we will know

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very little. Some Conservative MPs at this conference has been saying,

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I don't think there will be a hard Brexit. They are talking like that

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is a given. We shall see. Forecasts can be wrong, and so can our

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speculations. We will leave it there.

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Now, the new Home Secretary Amber Rudd has just taken

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-- is due on stage imbibing in shortly.

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And she is expected to announce new restrictions on people coming

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The Government is still committed to bringing net migration down

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But, as Ellie Price explains, the level of non-EU migration

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Net migration is the difference between the number of people coming

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into the UK and those leaving each year. Last year it was 320 7000.

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Around half came from the EU, the other half came from the rest of the

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world. They are eye watering figures when you think the Conservatives

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have been wanting to get the net migration figures down to 100,000

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since 2010. You are completely committed to the

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tens of thousands target? I am completely committed to reducing

:10:00.:10:02.

Icahn and tens of thousands, but it will take some time. Whether they

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can meet that target will depend on what type of Brexit deal is agreed

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on whether there are changes to freedom of movement from the EU. But

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don't forget the number of non-EU migrants is still 190,000. Even

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though the government already can and does apply immigration controls

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to the rest of the world. The composition of non-EU migration is

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very different EU migration. People from the EU are mainly coming as

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workers, where as the largest group of people coming from outside of the

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EU are actually international students. That is the largest group.

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Then we have people coming as workers, coming mainly in highly

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skilled jobs. Then we have family members, and the smallest group is

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asylum. Let's look at the numbers. The largest number of non-EU

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migrants is students, 72% of people who came to study in Britain last

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year came from the rest of the world. That was 111,000 people.

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Mostly coming from China and other Asian countries. There have been

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concerns that route was being exploited. The government says it

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closed 920 bogus colleges since 2010. That might partly explain why

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the visiting student numbers last year were the lowest since 2007.

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The second largest group of non-EU migrants as workers, usually in

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higher skilled roles. 71,000 people came from outside the EU to the UK

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last year to work. 20,000 were job-seekers and another 51,000

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already had a job lined up. Then you have another 47,000 who came to join

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or a company family members. And finally, around 44,000 claiming

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asylum. All of these numbers relate to non-EU immigration, before we

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even get to deciding how many people can come from EU countries. Brexit

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means UK politicians could soon have complete control over migration, but

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it doesn't mean the choices they face will be any easier.

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I'm joined now by the Work and Pensions Secretary Damian Green.

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In a former life he was the Immigration Minister

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Welcome back to the programme. Do you accept if you are to get

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anywhere near your target for net migration into this country that you

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will have to cut both EU migration and non-EU migration? I think

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mathematically that must be the case. Last time I looked it was

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about... The net figures were 190,000 each. I think slightly

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more... 330000 and it's roughly 50-50. So both will have do come

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down. Yes. I think what Amber will be talking about today is measures

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you can take to reduce migration from outside the European Union

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first. Why haven't you done that? Net migration from the EU, from

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outside the EU is way over your overall 100,000 target. What are you

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doing about it? As your package just showed, I think it was some years

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ago I was Immigration Minister. One of the most effective measures we

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took was closing all the bogus colleges. That gives some context.

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Everyone says we want students here. Some of them, they weren't students,

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they were coming here to work and attending bogus colleges. I

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understand that but the overall figure is 3.3 times your target. If

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nobody came here from the EU, even if there was no migration from the

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EU, you would still be 90,000 above your target. Which would have been

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lower than what we had. Why do make promises you can't keep? It's like

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pushing a balloon, you push one side and the other side comes up. It is a

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permanent struggle to keep immigration numbers at an acceptable

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level. A struggle you are losing. It is a struggle you have to keep at.

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You have lost 330,000... Higher than the year before and that was higher

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than the year before and that was higher than the year before that. It

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came down and went up again. Went up for three years. It was going down.

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It came down and went up again and went up again be partly because our

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economy was growing much faster than the economy of many other European

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countries. In some ways that makes it more difficult to control

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immigration, but I don't think anyone's complaining about the fact

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we had higher growth rates than many of our comparable countries. Can you

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give us any idea when you might get even close to your target? It will

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take time. I am not the Immigration Minister any more. Beyond 2020? It

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will be a few years yet, yes. It depends how fast the relative

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economic growth is in other countries. I would love other

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countries in Europe to get to grips with their economy is, particularly

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inside the euro zone, so there growing so very many young people

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who come here can find jobs in their own country. Do you think when

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people are worried about immigration into this country, and the

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referendum showed there was worry about it, particularly outside the

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metropolitan areas. Do you think they had doctors in mind when they

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were worried about migration? Probably not, but you would have to

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ask them that, Nigel Farage was forever at the forefront of saying

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that we wanted few immigrants and he would never answer the question,

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whether he meant doctors. Why would you want to not want to in Courage

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medical people to come to this country? -- encourage. In an ideal

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world we would train more doctors ourselves because this is a good

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profession for people to go into and what we and other richer countries

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are doing around the world, we are tending to take badly needed medical

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professions from poorer countries. In the long term that is not a good

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thing to do, that is not sustainable for them, but we are doing that

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because we need to fill gaps because at the moment we are not training

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enough doctors, so we should train more doctors. You have put the

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doctors and other medical people working here already, you have put

:16:28.:16:31.

them on deportation notice. No, we haven't. Really? The Prime Minister

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was asked this morning if foreign doctors would be allowed to stay and

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she said, until further numbers of home-grown doctors are trained. When

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we train our doctors they will want to find jobs. But what happens to

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the others? That is a Duport Asian notice warning to doctors already

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here. -- deportation. Would you like to say to anyone who has come to

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this country to work in the NHS, are they welcome to stay? They well,

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while they are doing a job and they will be necessary for that time --

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they are well, for the wild way are doing a job. -- play a welcome.

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So they don't have to go? What I will say again, it she said, doctors

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will be allowed to stay until further numbers of home-grown

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doctors are trained. Not talking about new foreign doctors coming in,

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talking about those already here. You have clarified they won't have

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to leave, correct? If we are training up more doctors, those

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doctors will be available to apply for jobs in the future, many years

:17:51.:17:54.

in the future, it takes many years to train a doctor, but they will

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then presumably be competing for jobs with foreign doctors who are

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not yet here. For a country with a national health 's is and with an

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international reputation with health -- National Health Service. With

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world beating hospitals and breakthroughs in medical techniques,

:18:14.:18:19.

don't you want an international market in medical expertise? Don't

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you want the best and the brightest to come to this country? Yes, of all

:18:24.:18:28.

people to come to this country, the best and brightest, when I was

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Immigration Minister I said we don't just want our fair share, we want

:18:35.:18:39.

more than our fair share and we think this is a very attractive

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country to come to. You have said you would like more of the best and

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brightest to come, Boris Johnson has said he would like more Australians

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to come, Philip Hammond says he thinks the City should be exempt

:18:52.:18:55.

from any kind of immigration controls, and Sajid Javid says we

:18:56.:18:59.

need more foreign builders. If all these are the people are coming into

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the country, who is not coming in? These are people who are already

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coming in. Mr Johnson says he would like more Australians, Sajid Javid

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said we need more foreign builders. One of your other colleague said we

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need more farm workers. If we need all these extra people to come into

:19:18.:19:21.

the country, who are you not going to let in? How are you going to get

:19:22.:19:29.

the numbers down? The basis of any sensible immigration policy and this

:19:30.:19:33.

is what we seek to do, is to bring people in who are highly skilled and

:19:34.:19:36.

world-class or filling gaps in the Labour market. One of the tasks of

:19:37.:19:43.

other ministers including myself, is to make more highly skilled our own

:19:44.:19:49.

workforce so that British workers are trained to do jobs that would

:19:50.:19:51.

otherwise have to be done by workers from overseas. That is a permanent

:19:52.:19:56.

struggle, not something you ever get to the end of, but absolutely, that

:19:57.:20:01.

is a task for any British government to make sure our skills are better

:20:02.:20:04.

and we have people who can do those jobs. The basis of your immigration

:20:05.:20:11.

system is not allowing people to come in with skills that we need,

:20:12.:20:19.

but the basis is to get net migration down. Most people, even

:20:20.:20:29.

though most worried about immigration, they say they want

:20:30.:20:32.

doctors and skilled people, they want the best people in the world

:20:33.:20:38.

here. What you said in the referendum campaign, that was very

:20:39.:20:42.

much the thought that we are bringing into many relatively low

:20:43.:20:45.

skilled workers and the question is, can't we find British workers to do

:20:46.:20:49.

those jobs which are not that is a legitimate question. -- to do those

:20:50.:21:00.

jobs? Of course. How much for -- further does sterling have to fall

:21:01.:21:03.

before you get worried? I have seen this happen, working in finance, and

:21:04.:21:09.

anyone who worries over a few days in the market, but would find

:21:10.:21:15.

themselves bouncing around every day. It is a trend. You will know

:21:16.:21:22.

the trend has been down for 100 days. It is now down about 13.5%

:21:23.:21:35.

since the 23rd of June. $1.28. How low does it go before you get

:21:36.:21:44.

worried? You make long-term policy not on the basis of international

:21:45.:21:51.

currency rates, but what you do, it seems to me the Prime Minister

:21:52.:21:58.

giving a date for when we invoke Article 50, that actually promotes

:21:59.:22:03.

stability. How did that work in the exchange markets this morning? The

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Prime Minister gave a sedate over the weekend and then the pound

:22:09.:22:13.

plunges as soon as the markets open -- gave a date. That is a classic

:22:14.:22:20.

market reaction. Unless wondering where the stability comes in. The

:22:21.:22:28.

longer you leave it uncertain, for markets and investment, long-term

:22:29.:22:33.

investment, it is worse, and I think proceeding at a sensible pace with

:22:34.:22:37.

the Brexit negotiations, and we are now single the timetable is, that is

:22:38.:22:42.

the most sensible way to do it. It will be an uncertain period, they

:22:43.:22:44.

will be bumps in the road, and knowing how long that road is seems

:22:45.:22:49.

to be promoting stability. Damian Green, thanks for joining us.

:22:50.:22:56.

Conservatives have traditionally supported US republicans -

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But what about in next month's presidential election?

:22:59.:23:07.

It is rather different from most elections in America.

:23:08.:23:10.

Adam wheeled out his mood box amongst conference goers - would

:23:11.:23:13.

Most people here don't have a vote in the American presidential

:23:14.:23:21.

election but we're not letting that stop us, who do people prefer?

:23:22.:23:29.

Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton? This is going to be awesome, so

:23:30.:23:34.

awesome. Clinton, she is the lesser of two evils. Ringing endorsement

:23:35.:23:40.

exclaim Aqua grab a ball and put that in the Clinton box. It would be

:23:41.:23:46.

great to have a female president. Go for it, then. I'm going to go for

:23:47.:23:55.

Trump because I hate every Clinton. She is alive and she will say

:23:56.:24:00.

anything for a of votes and I think Trump has a bit more credibility and

:24:01.:24:07.

I would go for him. It is a kick in the face or a kick in the crotch,

:24:08.:24:11.

and Clinton would probably kick me in the crotch full stop I don't know

:24:12.:24:16.

what I would go for. Thank you very much. I share the same hairdresser

:24:17.:24:24.

as Donald Trump, I've got to grab one of these. You wearing better.

:24:25.:24:30.

Mine is just as false. It is going to be fantastic. I'm not sure

:24:31.:24:35.

Clinton will do the best for America. It is like the Iran-Iraq

:24:36.:24:41.

war come I want them both to lose, but I think if I was an American

:24:42.:24:46.

citizen I'm afraid it would have to be, for world peace, the safer

:24:47.:24:52.

world. I think Donald Trump will win. Unfortunately. This rolling

:24:53.:24:59.

ball is for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate. Trump or

:25:00.:25:11.

Clinton? Trump, I think of are just so I can see the President of North

:25:12.:25:19.

Korea's face when I -- someone whispers in his ear that Donald

:25:20.:25:26.

Trump is the American president. -- I think just so I can see the

:25:27.:25:32.

president of North Korea. Jim Davidson, News at ten, Conservative

:25:33.:25:38.

conference. Who are you going to be announcing as the winner? Trump. I

:25:39.:25:48.

don't want a madman and an idiot running the United States of

:25:49.:25:51.

America. Who would you give this ball to? I give this to the

:25:52.:25:59.

Republican candidate, Donald Trump. I won't vote for a very left-wing

:26:00.:26:07.

Democrat. I'm doing some writing about this, about the US election, I

:26:08.:26:11.

do a podcast every Friday, and in that position, I have to remain

:26:12.:26:18.

neutral. Few people went for Donald Trump but the majority went for

:26:19.:26:24.

Hillary Clinton. We have made the move box great again, not that it

:26:25.:26:31.

wasn't great before -- mood. STUDIO: Ad showing that there is a clear

:26:32.:26:38.

majority for Hillary Clinton at the Conservative conference -- Adam.

:26:39.:26:45.

Stressing the difference between Britain's form of conservatism and

:26:46.:26:48.

America's current style of conservatism. That is if you regard

:26:49.:26:53.

Donald Trump as a Conservative. Now, Theresa May has said

:26:54.:26:56.

she will trigger Article 50 - beginning the process of our exit

:26:57.:26:59.

from the European Union But should it be her decision alone,

:27:00.:27:01.

or should MPs have a vote on it? Well Conservative supporter,

:27:02.:27:06.

Leave campaigner and founder of Pimlico Plumbers -

:27:07.:27:08.

Charlie Mullins - is funding a legal challenge to try and force

:27:09.:27:10.

a parliamentary vote. Good afternoon. People voted to

:27:11.:27:23.

leave the European Union, why are you finding a vote to try and stop

:27:24.:27:27.

the will of the people? I'm not against the result. You are. I'm

:27:28.:27:34.

trying to clarify whether Theresa May is legally entitled to trigger

:27:35.:27:37.

Article 50 and whether issued B Parliament, and I believe it should

:27:38.:27:43.

be Parliament. -- and whether it should be Parliament. The government

:27:44.:27:48.

says they have the legal power to do so. It should be Parliament.

:27:49.:27:54.

Parliament makes the laws and decisions, so surely it should be

:27:55.:27:59.

them that do it. Your slide in the campaign never told us that if we

:28:00.:28:06.

voted to leave it would still be subject to a vote in parliament --

:28:07.:28:11.

side. We were never told that. We were told by the then Prime Minister

:28:12.:28:15.

that if we voted to leave, the will of the people would be respected.

:28:16.:28:20.

I'm not against the referendum, I'm here to clarify whether she is

:28:21.:28:24.

entitled to trigger Article 50 or whether Parliament should be doing

:28:25.:28:30.

it. You have never shown a massive interest in such intricate

:28:31.:28:33.

constitutional matters before, why now? I'm sure aim is to thwart the

:28:34.:28:43.

result. -- unless your aim. We have to accept the resort. If someone

:28:44.:28:49.

challenges this 80 months down the line, and we have been in a complete

:28:50.:28:53.

mess, there will be more uncertainty and we need to find whether she's

:28:54.:28:58.

entitled to or whether it is Parliament. -- we have to accept the

:28:59.:29:05.

result. Parliament is voting for us to leave in essence, by getting rid

:29:06.:29:13.

of the European communities act. The idea of Parliament voting, they make

:29:14.:29:18.

the laws, why should it left to the government? If we hadn't voted for

:29:19.:29:23.

Parliament, how would you encourage MPs to vote? If we didn't have a

:29:24.:29:31.

Parliament? No, if we had a vote in Parliament. I'm a Remain, but we can

:29:32.:29:38.

live with the decision, it is about businesses preparing for the exit.

:29:39.:29:43.

Do you want them to vote against triggering out of 50 -- Article 50

:29:44.:29:55.

question -- Article 50? I would rather they voted to Remain. So you

:29:56.:30:02.

want this vote so that Parliament can reverse the result of the

:30:03.:30:08.

referendum? Not at all, there's a campaign formed by Gena Miller,

:30:09.:30:12.

businesswoman, she believes Theresa May is not entitled to trigger

:30:13.:30:16.

Article 50. You have said if Parliament had a vote on Article 50

:30:17.:30:21.

you would want Parliament not to trigger Article 50, therefore not to

:30:22.:30:25.

carry out the will of the referendum. No, no. We have two

:30:26.:30:31.

except the result, even if we are not happy with it, but this is about

:30:32.:30:35.

legally finding out whether it is Theresa May or Parliament should be

:30:36.:30:41.

doing it. -- to accept. You have said you want MPs to vote not to

:30:42.:30:46.

trigger Article 50. Obviously I have an opinion and from a business

:30:47.:30:50.

perspective that is my opinion. What kind of constitutional crisis would

:30:51.:30:53.

we have if the people, having voted to leave the EU, Parliament then

:30:54.:31:01.

votes that we shouldn't leave? We don't own what they would vote. We

:31:02.:31:05.

are uncertain at the moment, but we have got to go back to why I'm here,

:31:06.:31:09.

the point is whether she is legally entitled to do it or whether it

:31:10.:31:13.

should be Parliament. Thanks for joining us. When is the court case?

:31:14.:31:22.

Ten days from now, the High Court's Lord Chief Justice is dealing with

:31:23.:31:29.

it. More money for lawyers. It is your money.

:31:30.:31:34.

Now, the Conservatives have used their conference to make a raft

:31:35.:31:36.

Let's go back to London and see what we've learned so far.

:31:37.:31:49.

Yes, Andrew, thank you. There have been a raft of announcements and we

:31:50.:31:52.

will have a look at the big policies that were stated and have been since

:31:53.:31:54.

Sunday. At the start of the conference

:31:55.:31:56.

on Sunday, Prime Minister Theresa May announced that the UK

:31:57.:31:59.

will trigger Article 50 by the end of March,

:32:00.:32:01.

starting the two year She also promised

:32:02.:32:03.

a "Great Repeal Bill," removing the 1972 European Communities Act

:32:04.:32:06.

from the statute books, and enshrining existing EU

:32:07.:32:11.

law into British law. Yesterday, Chancellor Philip

:32:12.:32:13.

Hammond abandoned his predecessor George Osborne's aim to balance

:32:14.:32:15.

the books before 2020. Also, Communities Secretary Sajid

:32:16.:32:20.

Javid said the Government will borrow money to build 1 million

:32:21.:32:22.

new homes by 2020. Today, Defence Secretary

:32:23.:32:28.

Michael Fallon announces plans to ensure UK troops are given legal

:32:29.:32:33.

protection against While Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt

:32:34.:32:35.

is announcing a 25% increase in medical school places,

:32:36.:32:43.

to make England "self-sufficient" Joining me now from Leicester

:32:44.:32:45.

is Labour Shadow Cabinet Welcome to the Daily Politics. As we

:32:46.:33:00.

just said Chancellor Philip Hammond announced yesterday he is ditching

:33:01.:33:04.

George Osborne's target to eliminate the Budget deficit by 2020. I assume

:33:05.:33:08.

Labour is backing that? We always said he couldn't meet that target.

:33:09.:33:14.

It was surplus by 2019, that was the basis of the Conservative 's general

:33:15.:33:18.

election campaign last year. We said it would be unrealistic without deep

:33:19.:33:22.

cuts in public expenditure. We have been calling for more investment in

:33:23.:33:26.

infrastructure, that's what we think would be a sensible approach for the

:33:27.:33:30.

economy and he seems to be adopting that approach, but we would have to

:33:31.:33:34.

look at the details. It seems to vindicate the arguments we've

:33:35.:33:37.

outlined in the last 12 months. So you are backing that. Your plea for

:33:38.:33:43.

more investment seems to have been answered by the Conservatives. They

:33:44.:33:45.

have announced they're going to borrow to build a million homes.

:33:46.:33:50.

There is your public investment in infrastructure. You would support

:33:51.:33:54.

that as well? We think we could go further. We have had the lowest

:33:55.:34:00.

house-building on record since peace time, the nineteen twenties. How

:34:01.:34:04.

many homes did Labour Bill did the last government? Not enough. Nothing

:34:05.:34:09.

like it. We put investment into the housing stock, that was our priority

:34:10.:34:14.

in the first few years of the Labour government. We want this government

:34:15.:34:18.

to go further. We want more investment in our infrastructure.

:34:19.:34:22.

Sticking with housing, you said Labour didn't build enough. The last

:34:23.:34:26.

Labour government promised to build 240,000. The completions by the end

:34:27.:34:31.

of that government were only 130 6000. You fell well short of that

:34:32.:34:36.

promise so it's a bit rich for you to complain about the Conservatives'

:34:37.:34:40.

record, which were right, completions was worse under David

:34:41.:34:44.

Cameron, but now they are promising to build those homes. You support

:34:45.:34:48.

that aspiration? I don't think it's rich when I am conceding to you we

:34:49.:34:54.

didn't build enough homes. Not just enough... We wanted to put

:34:55.:34:57.

investment in the existing housing stock, because it had had no

:34:58.:35:02.

investment for 18 years of the previous Conservative government.

:35:03.:35:05.

Why should voters trust you more than the Conservative government? On

:35:06.:35:10.

the housing promises? What we have now, a Conservative government which

:35:11.:35:14.

last year promised to balance the books and run a surplus by 2019.

:35:15.:35:19.

They have completely abandoned that and completely abandoned any fiscal

:35:20.:35:23.

rules whatsoever. We have a fiscal framework, we want to bring forward

:35:24.:35:27.

billions and billions pounds worth of investment, not just houses but

:35:28.:35:31.

Rhodes, broadband, and new sewage works that is needed, rail lines and

:35:32.:35:35.

things like that. The Conservatives are just talking about housing,

:35:36.:35:37.

which is welcome, and good as far enough and that is the

:35:38.:35:53.

difference between us. You have abandoned any ambition to bring down

:35:54.:35:55.

the deficit any time soon. You are pledging ?500 billion in new

:35:56.:35:58.

investment to create jobs in new infrastructure projects. How much

:35:59.:36:00.

are you going to add to the deficit? We will have to see what the public

:36:01.:36:03.

finances are when we get into government and see what we inherit.

:36:04.:36:05.

That you will be adding to the deficit quite dramatically much

:36:06.:36:08.

about our pledges 25 billion over five years. We currently spend

:36:09.:36:12.

something like 23 billion at the moment. There are ways in which we

:36:13.:36:17.

can do this. If the deficit comes down of course we won't be boring,

:36:18.:36:20.

but we will have to see what the public finances are like. What would

:36:21.:36:24.

you do to bring the deficit down? If you invest in the economy, you grow

:36:25.:36:28.

the economy. The reason the Conservatives have not been able to

:36:29.:36:31.

deal with the deficit is because they haven't been investing in the

:36:32.:36:35.

economy, haven't been growing the economy. Labour want to grow the

:36:36.:36:44.

economy faster than it is now, at around 2.1%? What growth rate are

:36:45.:36:46.

you predicting? We will make our decisions when we see what the

:36:47.:36:48.

Chancellor says in his Autumn Statement and budget. The key event

:36:49.:36:52.

will be the budget before the general election, as you know. In

:36:53.:36:55.

the meantime, the Conservatives are talking about bumps on the road,

:36:56.:37:00.

taking this very casual attitude to Brexit, apparently pushing us into

:37:01.:37:04.

what is being called a hard Brexit, not being clear about whether they

:37:05.:37:08.

want to remain in the single market or keep access. It seems like

:37:09.:37:12.

they've moved away from that. We think that would be a catastrophe

:37:13.:37:15.

for jobs, investment and the prosperity of the people I represent

:37:16.:37:20.

in Leicester. If they push us out of the single market they need to be

:37:21.:37:23.

clear about what that means the British manufacturers who are

:37:24.:37:26.

worried about tariffs on perhaps the cars they produce in Sunderland and

:37:27.:37:30.

elsewhere. This is the clarity we need from Theresa May. Been boosted

:37:31.:37:38.

recently depending on the fall in sterling, that could be a good or a

:37:39.:37:41.

bad thing. I don't think they will want tariffs. No, but at the moment

:37:42.:37:46.

exports have been boosted. In terms of looking at the economy, although

:37:47.:37:50.

sterling has fallen, the share prices have gone up in the FTSE 100.

:37:51.:37:56.

Do you welcome that? Of course we welcome share prices increasing. We

:37:57.:37:59.

need to know what will happen to the economy in the next few months.

:38:00.:38:02.

Philip Hammond was warning us yesterday it will be difficult.

:38:03.:38:05.

Theresa May talks about it is bumps in the road, as if people's jobs can

:38:06.:38:10.

be dismissed in that casual way. People are genuinely worried, if we

:38:11.:38:13.

leave the single market and don't have access, what will that mean for

:38:14.:38:19.

jobs in the UK? Do you think Labour voters, particularly in northern

:38:20.:38:22.

heartlands, will also be worried about immigration and the fact you

:38:23.:38:26.

are pledging and would like the UK to remain within the single market,

:38:27.:38:31.

which would mean freedom of movement, as it stands now? Many

:38:32.:38:35.

Labour voters back Brexit because they want to see immigration fall.

:38:36.:38:39.

Do you want to see the numbers fall? I don't think immigration policy

:38:40.:38:44.

should drive economic policy. That's not what I asked, would you like to

:38:45.:38:49.

see the immigration numbers fall? A lot of voters in those working-class

:38:50.:38:52.

northern constituencies you are talking about would be concerned if

:38:53.:38:55.

we went into recession because we don't have access to a single

:38:56.:38:59.

European market. Jeremy Hosking talking about a migration impact

:39:00.:39:06.

fund... -- Jeremy Hunt 's been talking. I don't see how a putting

:39:07.:39:10.

these are the tree figures out that helps the case, it hasn't helped the

:39:11.:39:14.

Tories. Because Labour voters want it. They have failed to do that.

:39:15.:39:19.

Labour voters backing Brexit wanted to see fewer people coming here?

:39:20.:39:23.

Labour voters who voted to leave the EU wanted us to leave the European

:39:24.:39:27.

Union. I think there are other issues going on. People were annoyed

:39:28.:39:31.

about the fact you can't get decent housing in this country, that wages

:39:32.:39:34.

have been stagnant for years, that London and the south-east appears to

:39:35.:39:40.

be booming and elsewhere cities are being left behind. These are not

:39:41.:39:43.

self correcting issues, you need a government intervening to deal with

:39:44.:39:46.

them and that is why the Labour Party has a stronger offer in these

:39:47.:39:50.

areas. Thank you. Back to you, Andrew, in Birmingham.

:39:51.:39:52.

Thank you. The Defence Secretary has announced

:39:53.:39:55.

that UK troops will be protected from future

:39:56.:39:57.

"vexatious" legal claims. The change in policy means

:39:58.:39:58.

parts of the European Convention on Human Rights -

:39:59.:40:01.

or ECHR - could be suspended Here's what Michael Fallon

:40:02.:40:03.

had to say earlier. Much of the litigation that we face

:40:04.:40:16.

comes from the extension of the European convention on human rights

:40:17.:40:25.

to the battlefield. That has been damaging our troops, damaging

:40:26.:40:28.

military operations and costing the taxpayer millions that should be

:40:29.:40:31.

invested in defence itself. APPLAUSE So I can announce today that in

:40:32.:40:47.

future conflicts we intend to Dehra great front that European

:40:48.:40:48.

convention. That will protect in future our

:40:49.:41:03.

Armed Forces from many of the industrial scale claims we have seen

:41:04.:41:09.

coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan. I want to be clear, this is not

:41:10.:41:13.

about putting our Armed Forces above the law. They wouldn't want that.

:41:14.:41:19.

They have to comply with the criminal law of this country, and of

:41:20.:41:24.

course with the Geneva conventions. Serious claims must be investigated,

:41:25.:41:30.

but spurious claims will be stopped and our Armed Forces will now be

:41:31.:41:34.

able to do their job fighting their enemy and not the lawyers. APPLAUSE

:41:35.:41:41.

That was Michael Fallon talking to the conference earlier this morning.

:41:42.:41:46.

I am joined by the Defence Secretary now. Welcome to the Daily Politics.

:41:47.:41:51.

This has been spun as a great announcement, but we have always

:41:52.:41:56.

been able, if we chose, to get out of the European convention when

:41:57.:41:59.

going into a conflict and it's just we haven't chosen to do it. It is

:42:00.:42:04.

nothing new? Yes it is. We have to change the law. We have to get

:42:05.:42:08.

Parliament to vote an amendment to the Human Rights Act allowing us to

:42:09.:42:12.

do this in future conflicts. This is a big decision today, the big day

:42:13.:42:18.

for our military. We will be asking Parliament to ensure in future

:42:19.:42:21.

conflicts the government of the day will have the power, the power, to

:42:22.:42:26.

do so. What do you do if Parliament says no, we don't want to give you a

:42:27.:42:31.

blank cheque. We will just vote on a conflict by conflict basis? That is

:42:32.:42:37.

not how the convention is constructed. Other countries have

:42:38.:42:43.

done this before. For the French state of emergency, not for a

:42:44.:42:47.

foreign conflict. And it was very necessary. But the convention was

:42:48.:42:50.

drawn up to deal with foreign conflict. It was drawn up, as you

:42:51.:42:54.

well know, after the war for those countries that had been fighting

:42:55.:42:59.

each other. It was never envisaged to extend the battlefield overseas

:43:00.:43:02.

and we will stop that. Why do you think no country has sought this in

:43:03.:43:07.

advance of a conflict? They haven't been subject to this industrial

:43:08.:43:13.

scale fighting of spurious allegations. Several thousand

:43:14.:43:17.

allegations have been made up and pushed through the system against

:43:18.:43:21.

our troops years after the alleged offences. If they are spurious why

:43:22.:43:29.

has your department paid so much out in compensation? Because under the

:43:30.:43:33.

convention you have to do that, otherwise the court would rule

:43:34.:43:37.

against you and that is precisely the point. I think we have paid out

:43:38.:43:44.

some ?20 million in some 300 cases. 326 cases. We had to settle when we

:43:45.:43:49.

shouldn't have had to because the convention applied. We will this

:43:50.:43:55.

apply the convention in the right to liberty. If someone is firing on

:43:56.:43:58.

British troops and they then detain them, they shouldn't be able to sue

:43:59.:44:02.

for loss of liberty, while you're arresting them, trying to find out

:44:03.:44:06.

who they are, who they are working with, gather vital intelligence. We

:44:07.:44:10.

must stop that kind of nonsense. Are you telling our viewers this morning

:44:11.:44:15.

your department paid out ?20 million in compensation to people who don't

:44:16.:44:19.

deserve it? We have had to because of the court system and convention,

:44:20.:44:23.

and that has been the past. 20 million? We are taking action today

:44:24.:44:28.

to make defence budget money is spent on our Armed Forces, not

:44:29.:44:33.

paying off these spurious cases. Are they all spurious, the 20 million?

:44:34.:44:38.

We've had thousands of cases of people who have said they are suing

:44:39.:44:44.

us... 326 you settled, there must be something going on where there is

:44:45.:44:48.

some merit? I don't understand why the department would have used

:44:49.:44:51.

taxpayers money in such a cavalier way if these cases were without

:44:52.:44:56.

merit? Because otherwise they could rest on the European Convention, the

:44:57.:45:00.

articles about the right to liberty, to say they've been detained in

:45:01.:45:03.

properly and they would have been able to do that through the courts.

:45:04.:45:07.

We are going to stop that. There were cases where our Army detained

:45:08.:45:12.

people improperly? Where there are serious cases they need to be

:45:13.:45:16.

investigated. Our Armed Forces wouldn't want this, nobody would say

:45:17.:45:20.

they be above law but there is criminal law of the United Kingdom

:45:21.:45:24.

and the Geneva Convention. Our Armed Forces have to respect that and will

:45:25.:45:27.

go on respecting in the future, after we've done this.

:45:28.:45:31.

What you say to the Army's former chief legal adviser in Iraq, he says

:45:32.:45:41.

genuine grievances would not have come to light if it hadn't been for

:45:42.:45:48.

this? I don't agree with that. It is important they can't be investigated

:45:49.:45:51.

properly, when you are cluttered up with several thousand allegations

:45:52.:45:54.

which have no basis in fact. If there are serious allegations they

:45:55.:46:00.

will be pursued. He was the chief legal adviser in Iraq. Well, he was.

:46:01.:46:06.

He thought without the conventions application serious cases of

:46:07.:46:09.

wrongdoing would not have come to light. Serious cases can still be

:46:10.:46:15.

pursued because as I said, the Armed Forces will remain subject to our

:46:16.:46:21.

law and must comply with the Geneva conventions, international

:46:22.:46:23.

humanitarian law and the Law of armed conflict. Why have you done

:46:24.:46:27.

nothing for those who have already been pursued? We are doing

:46:28.:46:31.

something, we are putting more resources into the investigation to

:46:32.:46:34.

get rid of the spurious claims and we have got rid of over 1000 already

:46:35.:46:40.

and we threw another thousand out by January and there will only be a few

:46:41.:46:44.

hundred left of the original 3000 and then we will have a time limit,

:46:45.:46:48.

so no you claims can emerge and we will tackle the culture and we have

:46:49.:46:54.

already had one of these law firms pursued through the solicitors

:46:55.:46:59.

tribunal for making false allegations and that firm has been

:47:00.:47:05.

shut down. Based in Birmingham, no less. Yes, but no longer. They felt

:47:06.:47:20.

they were lettering out to dry by the army, some of the soldiers have

:47:21.:47:24.

said, what are you doing about that? -- they felt they were hung out to

:47:25.:47:29.

dry. We will give them support and we will do our best to protect them

:47:30.:47:33.

as they go through that process. We will make sure that in future

:47:34.:47:37.

complex they would be subject to this kind of nonsense -- conflicts.

:47:38.:47:42.

This will have to go to the House of Lords. What happens if they say they

:47:43.:47:46.

aren't giving you a blank cheque and it wasn't in the manifesto and they

:47:47.:47:49.

would rather do this on a conflict by conflict basis? It was in our

:47:50.:47:55.

manifesto, there was a very clear commitment to tackle the nonsense of

:47:56.:47:59.

what is called law fair. But not to derogate from the EC HR. The

:48:00.:48:06.

manifesto did not say you were derogate from the EC HR, correct?

:48:07.:48:11.

The manifesto said we would tackle law fair and this is part of

:48:12.:48:14.

tackling law fair and I would expect the House of Lords to support it and

:48:15.:48:20.

I would expect the former service chiefs to welcome this announcement

:48:21.:48:24.

and I would expect the House of Commons to support it. How much of a

:48:25.:48:31.

toll is the continuing fall in sterling taking on your defence

:48:32.:48:36.

budget question mark given how much we buy overseas. -- defence budget?

:48:37.:48:43.

There are fluctuations. More than a fluctuation, it is a one-way street

:48:44.:48:48.

since the 23rd of June. This is how the graft goes. Like any large

:48:49.:48:54.

organisation, we take precautions against movements in the currency,

:48:55.:48:58.

and you would expect us to do that because we purchase a lot of

:48:59.:49:03.

equipment in dollars. You would expect us to protect our position

:49:04.:49:08.

and we will go on doing so. Does Philip Hammond have to give you a

:49:09.:49:11.

top up to account for the fall in sterling? We have a defence budget

:49:12.:49:17.

which is going up each year at the moment and that is a protection.

:49:18.:49:22.

While sterling is going down. It is going ahead in real terms ahead of

:49:23.:49:32.

inflation, and we are relatively fortunate compared with other

:49:33.:49:36.

colleagues whose budgets are going down, but we do purchase a lot in

:49:37.:49:39.

dollars and we take the precautions. Michael Fallon, thanks for joining

:49:40.:49:44.

us. That was the Defence Secretary in Birmingham, and now back to

:49:45.:49:53.

London. We are going to see Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary. She will

:49:54.:49:58.

be talking about immigration no doubt in her speech to the

:49:59.:49:59.

conference. And she announced she is going

:50:00.:50:02.

to look at new ways to bring Right, I think we are slightly

:50:03.:50:19.

delayed, but hopefully she will appear very shortly on your screen.

:50:20.:50:25.

As you know the Conservative Party was elected on a manifesto

:50:26.:50:28.

commitment to reduce net migration to sustainable levels and that means

:50:29.:50:33.

tens of thousands, not the hundreds of thousands. My commitment to you

:50:34.:50:37.

today is that I will be working with colleagues across government to

:50:38.:50:42.

deliver this. But I'm also here to level with you, conference, this

:50:43.:50:48.

will not happen overnight. Leaving the EU is just one part of the

:50:49.:50:52.

strategy we have to look at all sources of immigration if we mean

:50:53.:50:58.

business. I'm announcing today that from December landlords that

:50:59.:51:01.

knowingly rent out property to people who have no right to be here

:51:02.:51:04.

will be committing a criminal offence and they could go to prison.

:51:05.:51:06.

APPLAUSE Furthermore from December

:51:07.:51:20.

immigration checks will be a mandatory requirement for those

:51:21.:51:23.

wanting to get a license to drive a taxi. APPLAUSE

:51:24.:51:29.

And from next autumn banks will have to do regular checks to make sure

:51:30.:51:35.

they are not providing essential banking services to illegal

:51:36.:51:42.

migrants. I can announce today we will shortly be consulting on the

:51:43.:51:45.

next steps needed to control immigration. We will be looking

:51:46.:51:50.

across work and study groups and this will include examining whether

:51:51.:51:56.

we should tighten and test -- the test companies have to take before

:51:57.:52:01.

recruiting from abroad. British businesses have given the economic

:52:02.:52:03.

recovery in this country with employment at record levels but we

:52:04.:52:08.

still need to do more. All British people therefore get the

:52:09.:52:10.

opportunities they need to get on in life. The test should make sure

:52:11.:52:14.

people coming here are filling gaps in the Labour market and not taking

:52:15.:52:18.

jobs that British people could do. That was Amber Rudd. Home Secretary.

:52:19.:52:25.

"A bid for the weakest joke of Tory conference",

:52:26.:52:26.

"a half hour cringe, my face has just about returned to normal"-

:52:27.:52:29.

those were just some of the reviews of the jokes to come

:52:30.:52:36.

out of the Tory Conference speeches yesterday.

:52:37.:52:38.

But were critics being overly harsh on the Conservatives'

:52:39.:52:40.

We sent Adam out to test the gags with the Birmingham public.

:52:41.:52:44.

Last week it was a Jeremy Corbyn joke book but now it is a bag of

:52:45.:52:49.

gags from Tory party conference speeches which we will try out on

:52:50.:52:52.

commuters at Birmingham new Street station. This is the Culture

:52:53.:52:59.

Secretary, Darren Bradley. If you think I want to read more

:53:00.:53:06.

spreadsheets, your grip on reality is as loose as Jeremy Corbyn's. If

:53:07.:53:12.

that meant to be funny? -- is that meant. OK. This is a joke from

:53:13.:53:23.

Philip Hammond. Did you know that Ed Balls was not the first choice for

:53:24.:53:29.

sticky come dancing, it was Jeremy Corbyn, but then they found out it

:53:30.:53:36.

was the case that he had two left feet -- Strictly Come Dancing. This

:53:37.:53:42.

is a joke from Andrea Leadsom. Agriculture Secretary. We are

:53:43.:53:47.

determined to improve mobile phone coverage and out superfast broadband

:53:48.:53:52.

and I know how frustrating it is to search with a single bar of signal,

:53:53.:54:01.

worse still if you can't get into your Pokemon account. That was the

:54:02.:54:09.

joke. Not impressed, really. How many Shadow Cabinet members does it

:54:10.:54:19.

take to change a light bulb? No one knows because the light bulb has

:54:20.:54:23.

outlasted all of them. Fairly good. Imagine Labour win the 2020 general

:54:24.:54:29.

election, Jeremy Corbyn is in Downing Street raising a red flag

:54:30.:54:32.

and John McDonnell is raising every taxi can find an Ken Livingstone is

:54:33.:54:38.

perched in the back-seat of the prime ministerial car. Tony Blair

:54:39.:54:43.

and Gordon Brown is in the boot. Well, every cloud has a silver

:54:44.:54:48.

lining. To get to the top woman has to be twice as good as a man, but

:54:49.:54:51.

fortunately that is not very difficult. I don't get this Yuma,

:54:52.:55:01.

man. Fair enough. -- humour. He had a point. I'm not sure I get it

:55:02.:55:04.

either. With us is Geoff Norcott,

:55:05.:55:06.

an openly pro-Tory comedian who hit Edinburgh Fringe with his show

:55:07.:55:08.

'Conswervative' this summer. And the Labour comedian Ahir Shah

:55:09.:55:10.

who today kicks off his show As a Tory comedian you are a rare

:55:11.:55:26.

species? Yes, not completely unique, but I'm the only one stupid enough

:55:27.:55:31.

to go to Edinburgh and talk about it for a month. Did you get lynched?

:55:32.:55:37.

No, but I did get some strange looks. There was a sense of morbid

:55:38.:55:46.

curiosity. Novelty item? Yeah. Given what we have seen in Birmingham so

:55:47.:55:49.

far and the conference speeches, is it any wonder there are not many

:55:50.:55:57.

Tory comedian 's question -- questions? -- Tory comedians? Yes, I

:55:58.:56:07.

don't imagine they remember the first time Pokemon came round, and

:56:08.:56:10.

to think they have kept up with the Apple -based phenomenon. Being a

:56:11.:56:16.

mother probably hindered her because she was probably too clued up. You

:56:17.:56:21.

kids with your Britpop and your mega drives. Is it easier for you as a

:56:22.:56:28.

left-leaning comedian? I don't know, but there are probably more Tory

:56:29.:56:33.

voting comedians than would be honest about it. At some clubs I

:56:34.:56:38.

would not regarded as bastions of left-wing humour. Certainly. But

:56:39.:56:44.

being a political comedian from the left is slightly easier. Why? The

:56:45.:56:51.

left's earnestness, you could say, does that mean you are funny? It is

:56:52.:56:55.

easy at the moment because we are losing so badly. Stand-up comedy is

:56:56.:57:01.

aways funnier when the comedian is the loser in this situation and for

:57:02.:57:07.

a left as moribund as it is at the moment, punching up is very easy.

:57:08.:57:11.

Not good for Labour, but funny. In terms of material. Yes, fantastic.

:57:12.:57:18.

In terms of material, you haven't enough, but there is Boris Johnson.

:57:19.:57:23.

Yes, there is Boris. The Tories are putting a lot of eggs in his basket

:57:24.:57:27.

immediately ended you were booking the conference as a gig, he would be

:57:28.:57:38.

on last. -- in his basket, and if you were booking the conference.

:57:39.:57:43.

There was something very abstract from him, I thought he could have

:57:44.:57:47.

taken it further, speculating on what kind of ice creams we could

:57:48.:57:52.

have had under Jeremy Corbyn. Maybe a chocolate would be seen as a

:57:53.:58:00.

bourgeois asset. They have gone for Jeremy Corbyn, but they have not

:58:01.:58:05.

really got him. Liam Fox said there is nothing funny about Jeremy

:58:06.:58:10.

Corbyn, but he looks like Obi-Wan Kenobi, a cross between him and

:58:11.:58:12.

Albert Steptoe, I think there is plenty funny about Jeremy Corbyn.

:58:13.:58:17.

Theresa May question what everything she is doing -- Theresa May? I'm so

:58:18.:58:28.

depressed by everything she says, I've not found anything funny or

:58:29.:58:35.

stop by family in India -- my family in India find it quite funny,

:58:36.:58:38.

because they are enamoured with the idea of Britain destroying itself or

:58:39.:58:43.

by next August it will probably be fine. Across the dispatch box, she

:58:44.:58:52.

did do the remind you of anybody. It was a bit intense. The joke was

:58:53.:58:58.

fine. Theresa May doesn't have to be funny, she has grabbed has and that

:58:59.:59:02.

is OK, I suppose. Thank you very much. -- Gravett has.

:59:03.:59:10.

On the day that sterling plunged to record low levels against the

:59:11.:59:22.

dollar. But I'll be back with the highlights

:59:23.:59:23.

from Birmingham at 11.15 tonight, and back tomorrow at 11am for a two

:59:24.:59:26.

hour special and Theresa May's first Although Olly's the reason

:59:27.:59:29.

I started making this film,

:59:30.:59:44.

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