John McCain - United States Senator HARDtalk


John McCain - United States Senator

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for HARDtalk. Welcome to HARDtalk. Top

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politicians, officials and business leaders have been brainstorming at

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the annual forum. Top of the discussions are threats to global

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security. And my guess is that they is the veteran US Senator Republican

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John McCain. Why does he accused the Obama Administration of dithering in

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its response to the threat of both Islamic State in the Middle East as

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well as Russia over its actions in Ukraine? Is he investing too much

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faith in military solutions to such dangerous? John McCain, welcome to

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HARDtalk. Thank you. Why do you believe the Obama Administration has

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been dithering over what to do over the threat of the Islamic State

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jihadist fighters, known as ISIS. They have not done anything. It was

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clear for a long time that this organisation was becoming more and

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more powerful. The president called that junior varsity. Clearly a total

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misreading of the threat they posed. And of course they now control the

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largest, most powerful, wealthiest terrorist on Cleeve in history. But

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do you believe that the Obama Administration is now actually very

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alive to the threat of the ISIS? They are more alive, but as far as

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the articulation and the strategy, or even a call has been missing. The

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president has set our goal is to protect people and protect American

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troops. That is not a strategy designed to defeat ISIS? John Kerry

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has just said in the past few days that leaving ISIS in some capacity

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anywhere would lead a cancer in place that would ultimately come

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back to haunt the United States. That does not sound like an

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administration that is complacent. They still have refused to provide

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the necessary equipment to the Kurds. Who are the ones who can

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fight ISIS in that respect. They still have not provided assistance

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to the Iraqis. They still have shamefully refused to give the Free

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Syrian Army what they need to fight successfully, who are being

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destroyed as we speak. There are 192,000 people who have been killed

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in Syria. I hope so. They have said these things before. Let me tell you

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one story. The President called and Lindsay into his office and said I

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am going to upgrade Bashar al`Assad and the Free Syrian Army and we are

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going to win. Because of the chemical weapons. Four days later,

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he said, I am not into bomb Syria. You were talking about the terrible

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attack in August last year. A lot of people at the time, including the

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United Kingdom, who has always been a supporter of the US military,

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there was a vote in the House of Commons is saying we do not want a

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military intervention. All along we predicted exactly what was going to

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happen, beginning with leaving a residual force in Iraq. The

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President did not want to. When he says he wanted to, he is not telling

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the truth. All of these things happened because of an absence of

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American leadership. Sticking with Iraq first of all. Obama has said,

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why is it everyone is so eager for the United States to use military

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force after we have just been through a decade of war and at

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enormous cost to ourselves. Are you perhaps not being a bit rash saying,

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let us just rush in and intervene militarily? You have to understand

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and I am afraid you do not buy the nature of the question, we had not

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won. We completely have the country with a very new countries, with

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control over the entire country. Then the President of the United

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States decided we would not leave a residual force behind. You do not

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like that. But if we had left the residual force behind, we would not

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have had the events that followed take place. You seem to suggest, you

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have said ISIS is a military force and must be confronted militarily.

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How else can you confronted? What example, we know that ISIS have made

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gains in Iraq in Sunni heartland because the Sunni population has

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allowed them to make these games. Not because they are a military

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force. Because the government, because we were not there to have

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the influence we would have had. They did not like the government.

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That is not a military issue. If you do not let me finish my sentence,

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there is not much point in having... It is not just a military

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failure. So am I. It has to have the military component. Else we will not

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succeed. If we have the residual force behind, if we are into the

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Peshmerga, none of this would have happened. But now that the Obama

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Administration has said it has a clear strategy for Iraq, Senator

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McCain, it says it wants to work with partners in the region, Saudi

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Arabia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, so they can actually take

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the lead, particularly militarily. To try to combat the jihadist 's.

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They cannot take the lead militarily. On the one country in

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the world can take the lead militarily to succeed in Iraq, and

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that is the United States of America. I am all for coalitions. I

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can tell you, those coalition partners do not trust us. We told

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them we were going to strike Syria because of chemical weapons and then

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did not do so. We have said many times that we are going to interact

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and have not. The United States influence is dramatically reduced,

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not only in the region but throughout the world. When you see

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the United States is the only country capable of achieving a

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defeat of, militarily, of ISIS, what are you advocating? The return of US

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combat troops on the ground in Iraq? Obviously not. The American people

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would not support such a thing. The use of air strikes is a strong and

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steady and very concentrated extracts, we can reverse the

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momentum. We can defeat ISIS with a reconciled Iraqi armed forces with

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Kurds and other nations. A concentrated campaign. Not just

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trying to stop them from taking in Mt. It has to be a concentrated

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campaign. Plus training, plus equipment to the Peshmerga. Plus

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reconciliation between the Sunni and Shia and other nations being

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involved. That does not sound any different from what the Obama

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strategy is. The deputy national security adviser has said the Obama

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Administration wants an inclusive new government in Iraq and Haider

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al`Abadi as the Prime Minister designate. It says it wants to

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engage partners in the region and take the lead role in the military

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push. What do you think has been happening for the past three years?

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Nothing. They have wasted the right thing. We have left behind a

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stable, secure Iraq. That is the same person that said that. You are

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leaving behind a ticking time bomb. President Obama said in the summer

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that he wants $500 million to be used to support moderate, clearly

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identified elements in the Free Syrian Army and is hoping that

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Congress will approve that in October. That sounds like he is

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doing the right thing. Do you think so? 192,000 people have already been

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killed while we did nothing to help these people. I have been in Syria

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and I have met them face to face. I can tell you, they are not being

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supplied with the weapons even now. If weapons are being supplied, the

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Saudis and the Emirates and others are giving them to them. We were not

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giving them the eighth that they needed to have a viable effort

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against Bashar al`Assad. You can dispute that is all you want, I have

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been on the ground. Now he wants $500 million to do what? He said for

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counterterrorism. To do what? Explain what he is going to do. She

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told me and Senator Graham that he was going to upgrade the

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capabilities of the Free Syrian Army. He never did. There is a view

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that is being circulated that ISIS poses such a threat not only to the

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United States, but the countries in the region, that one should work

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with President Assad in Syria to try and eliminate them and the Syrian

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Foreign Minister assets to the United States, if you want to do

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that, we welcome you. That is something which people like the

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former head of the British army says he thinks Britain should do. What do

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you think? Fantasy, foolishness to think that we should join forces

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with this butcher who has slaughtered 192,000 of his own

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people. Who is a threat, I believe, in many respects, to the region.

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That would be a betrayal of everything that we have fought for.

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It would mean the elimination of the Free Syrian Army. The Free Syrian

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Army can still succeed, although I can tell you, they are in dire

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straits. Bashar al`Assad, what about Iran?

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The supreme leader has said that he would be happy to have some kind of

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cooperation with the US to defeat the ices fighters. And in discussing

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that, a former naval commander, an American, said that communication

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and cooperation should be the what would `` watchword when it comes to

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any of the Kurdish areas. He says in this particular instance, US

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interests converge with those of Iran. The US State Department has

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ruled that out. What is your view? My view is that the Iranians are

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responsible for the bombings of American ships, American embassies.

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They have continued to supply Bashar al`Assad with arms and equipment and

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training to slaughter the Free Syria Army. They are continuing in their

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effort to develop nuclear weapons and they are causing problems

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throughout the Middle East. The United States of America cannot get

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in bed with the Iranians and should not and if they do, it would be

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something that the American people should never stand for. Just to

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finish on the jihadist threat in the Middle East in particular, just

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outlined for us very briefly what you think the Obama administration

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should be doing that it is not doing. It should have done a lot of

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long time ago and it is disgraceful they did not. All of us predicted

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the events as they transpired. We predicted exactly what would happen.

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You need to have reconciliation between Sunni and Shi'ite. You need

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to arm the Peshmerga directly, not through Baghdad, which will not give

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them any weapons. You need to have air strikes in Syria and Iraq are

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not just Iraq. ISIS has obliterated the boundaries between Syria and

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Iraq. And you need to really equipped and trained the Free Syria

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Army, which we have not done so far. Looking at Russia, you have

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also been a very strong advocate of tougher action against Russia, be it

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from the US, the EU or Nato. Now that there is this ceasefire plan

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and the hope is that it will hold, that probably is the best

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face`saving way out of this conflict, isn't it? Vladimir Putin

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's ambitions were very well`known to me and to others. He knew that once

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Viktor Yanukovych left, he had to take Crimea because of Sevastopol.

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Then he tried the separatists. That did not work. Then he armed the

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separatists. That did not work. Then he sent in thousands of Russian

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troops. The fact is that they were slaughtering Ukrainians. There were

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hundreds killed, thousands in the hospitals. It's terrible. Petro

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Poroshenko had no choice but to agree to a ceasefire. What will

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happen? I predicted that it will be another step in Vladimir Putin's

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strategy to separate eastern Ukraine from Ukraine. And perhaps a land

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bridge to Crimea. Now, it is a very bad result and again, we would not

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send weapons to the Ukrainians when they were begging for them. We would

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not even give them intelligence. Because we did not want to

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"provoke" Vladimir Putin. By showing weakness, we provoked Vladimir

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Putin. Who do you mean by that? The US? The US, yes. I also met the

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Europeans but I was not surprised that the Europeans. The Ukrainians

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begged the US for defensive weapons and we would not even do that full

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of it was almost comical. They sent MREs. Why we're not surprised at the

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not taking action? Because they are dependent on Russian energy. It is

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obvious. And as for the US, it was obvious that we were not going to

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assist them because we did not want to" provoke" Vladimir Putin. And

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there is nothing that provokes a Vladimir Putin more than weakness.

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You have to understand that his ambitions are the restoration of the

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old Russian Empire. He has never said, as he, that he was eastern

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Ukraine to be incorporated into Russian territory? What he said just

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a few days ago was that he could take Kiev in two weeks. What he has

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said is that he wants ISIL, which is an old phrase. That means `` he

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wants Novorussia. That means he wants eastern Ukraine, Crimea, all

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Dover and the Baltic. That is what he wants to see restored. He cannot

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afford to see a free and democratic and prosperous Ukraine because the

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Russian people would like to be like Ukraine. There is now this new Nato

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force, which has been discussed and could be in place by Christmas,

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where we have permanently rotating troops that can be deployed within a

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couple of days notice. Will that be enough of a deterrent? It depends on

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where it is, what the parameters of the rules of engagement are. A lot

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of things. I think it is good. We should do a lot of other things

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within restoring missile defence and rotating those people in and out of

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the Baltics, including stationing warships in the region. There are a

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whole lot of things we can do. You have to wrap this interview said

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that the US could be doing so much more militarily. `` throughout this

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interview. Stronger response in Russia, stronger response in the

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Middle East. But opinion polls show that the public and politicians in

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the US are very war weary and that people begin to say that foreign

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policy begins at home. Do you perhaps not take sufficient note of

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that? Interestingly, the American people are taking sufficient notice

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in the last few weeks, especially with these executions, and we have

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seen American public opinion shift dramatically. They don't want to

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send American troops and neither do I but they want us to lead and they

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want us to confront ISIS and they want us to lead in the world and not

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fall behind as they watch the world deteriorated around them. There has

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been a dramatic shift in the polls, some 25 points, that they want

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Americans to lead. They don't believe that President Obama is

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leading. His approval rating on foreign policy is 36%, the lowest I

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have ever seen of any president. There is a very live debate in the

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US about how that leadership, militarily, should manifest itself.

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And you have said yourself that there is no appetite for ground

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troops Aviemore. No one that I know of is advocating ground troops.

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There is a requirement for air controllers. We have 1000 people

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over there in Iraq. Air controllers, logistics,

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intelligence. There is certainly the need for those kinds of

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capabilities. Nobody is arguing for ground troops like the combat

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missions of before. But we know that we can succeed by doing that. And

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there has been no American leadership so far, which has caused

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the situation where we are facing now, where there are no good

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options. President Obama has himself accepted that intelligence in the

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Middle East had been lacking, that the ISIL advance had taken everyone

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by surprise. Is did not surprise me, it did not surprise some of us. We

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were not surprised. I can show you where we predicted it. OK? Pursuing

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this idea of how interventionist the US should be, the US Defence

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Secretary Chuck Hegel, a Republican like you... Not like me! He is a

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Republican. He is a Vietnam veteran like you. He says he is adamant that

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force should only be used only for clear objectives with clear exit

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strategies. He has gone even further, saying he regretted his

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vote for the war in Iraq in 2000 and two. And on the other hand, you have

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a Democrat like Hillary Clinton when she was Secretary of State saying

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that she feels crises have been made worse by the US absence. There is

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this debate. It does not necessarily split on partisan lines. Views such

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as those of Chuck Hegel should be considered? Chuck Hegel, in case you

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missed it last week, said that ISIS was the biggest challenge we have

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ever faced and that it was a direct threat to the united states of

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America. I agree with Chuck Hegel. And so therefore, he is arguing

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strenuously for the things I have been arguing for four years. And in

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light of our knowledge that these events were happening and that we

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would be facing the situation we are facing today unless we acted

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earlier. We did not and now we have this very difficult situation. Chuck

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Hegel suddenly called it the greatest threat he has ever seen.

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Politicians like Barack Obama have to accept that the Iraq War cost the

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US $240 million per day at its height. Over 4000 American

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servicemen and women killed and thousands more maimed and injured.

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And so, as President Obama says, you have to consider what kind of

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strategy you are going to have, make sure there is a clear exit strategy.

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We would not be in the situation we are in today if President Obama had

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left the residual force behind, which we could have and which he

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wanted to, despite bragging that the war was over and that the tide was

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receding, both of which were false statements. We have the mid`term

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elections. Republicans only need six seats to win control of the Senate.

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If they do that, the Republicans could set the agenda for the final

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two years of the Obama White House. Do you think they are going to do

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that? If so, do you think we will see any major changes on foreign

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policy? If we gain control of both houses, I am confident that we will

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act in a way that forces the US to restore a lot of its capabilities,

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that we will force policies that are far more internationalist in

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nature, and we will increase our defence spending significantly,

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which is much needed now, and many of us want to sit down and work with

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the president. I tried many times in the past but when he told Senator

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Graham and I bet he was going to strike Syria, upgrade the Free Syria

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Army, upgrade `` downgrade Bashar al`Assad, and then four days later,

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reversed that decision without telling anybody, we lost a lot of

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confidence in him because he did not tell us the truth. Senator John

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McCain, thank you for being on the programme. Thank you.

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Compared with last night, there is a greater chance this morning of some

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mist and

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