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Now on BBC News, it's Hardtalk. | 0:00:01 | 0:00:03 | |
Welcome to HARDtalk. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:15 | |
I'm Stephen Sackur. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:18 | |
My guest today has one of the most distinctive voices | 0:00:18 | 0:00:21 | |
in all of rock music, and a record of success | 0:00:21 | 0:00:23 | |
going back to the 1980s. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:26 | |
Chrissy Hynde's band, The Pretenders, first made it | 0:00:26 | 0:00:28 | |
big in the era of punk. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
She is still making music some three decades on, | 0:00:30 | 0:00:32 | |
but is she still in love with rock and roll? | 0:00:32 | 0:00:42 | |
Chrissie Hynde, welcome to HARDtalk. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
Is music as big a part of your life now as it's ever been? | 0:00:55 | 0:00:59 | |
No, not at all. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:00 | |
Because? | 0:01:00 | 0:01:01 | |
Well, because when I was a teenager listening to the radio, | 0:01:01 | 0:01:07 | |
it was really the only thing I was interested in, and now it's... | 0:01:07 | 0:01:11 | |
For many reasons, that's changed. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:13 | |
Maybe because there's not so many bands... | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
I would love bands, but now it has all changed a lot. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
Technology has changed it too. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:19 | |
I can't access things so simply any more, | 0:01:19 | 0:01:22 | |
so I've got a bit out of touch, I think. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:30 | |
So that you as a consumer of music, but for you as a performer, | 0:01:30 | 0:01:34 | |
a songwriter, and a performer as well, is there is much of a buzz | 0:01:34 | 0:01:38 | |
about that as there ever was? | 0:01:38 | 0:01:44 | |
Yes, I think so. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
That part of it, that's... | 0:01:46 | 0:01:51 | |
That's always a constant. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
Only when you're doing it. | 0:01:53 | 0:02:04 | |
It's all the stuff around it that gets tiresome. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:08 | |
If you don't feature the celebrity thing, | 0:02:08 | 0:02:10 | |
or talking about yourself, or being seen in public in any way, | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
it's just that hour and a half on stage, that's all. | 0:02:13 | 0:02:16 | |
Anyone in a band will tell you that. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
And the origin of the creativity? | 0:02:18 | 0:02:19 | |
The sitting down and writing songs? | 0:02:19 | 0:02:21 | |
Does that come as easily now? | 0:02:21 | 0:02:23 | |
Well, I don't know if it was ever easy. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:25 | |
It was maybe more compulsive when you have nothing to do | 0:02:25 | 0:02:28 | |
and you're alone in a room with a guitar, then eventually | 0:02:28 | 0:02:31 | |
you will write a song. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:33 | |
I never wrote them because I felt I had to or that I should. | 0:02:33 | 0:02:36 | |
I felt I wanted to write songs and present them to a band. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:40 | |
It was always about the band. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:42 | |
You've obviously gone in new directions, and you've | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
got a new album out, which you recorded in Sweden | 0:02:44 | 0:02:46 | |
with a guy, a well-known musician and producer whom I don't think | 0:02:46 | 0:02:50 | |
you'd worked with before, so obviously there's a lot | 0:02:50 | 0:02:52 | |
of new stuff going on right now, and I just wonder whether | 0:02:52 | 0:02:55 | |
you've taken your music in a different direction. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
Does it feel very different? | 0:02:58 | 0:02:59 | |
Not really. | 0:02:59 | 0:02:59 | |
No, I don't change very much. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:01 | |
I just kind of do what I... | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
I write some songs, put them together with the band, record it. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
I wouldn't say I'm an experimental artist. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:08 | |
I just try to do my thing, and if anyone likes it, that's great. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:12 | |
Yeah. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:12 | |
But I'm not really... | 0:03:12 | 0:03:13 | |
I just like to stay in the middle, so if I just can | 0:03:13 | 0:03:17 | |
do enough to get by. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:18 | |
I mean, I shouldn't say that in front of my record | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
company or my management, because I'm supposed to be out | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
here hawking my fish, you know. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
The truth is, I just want to do enough to get | 0:03:26 | 0:03:29 | |
by and do what I like to do, which is to go on the road | 0:03:29 | 0:03:33 | |
and play in a band. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:34 | |
It's very simple for me. | 0:03:34 | 0:03:35 | |
And what you also seem to have succeeded in doing this time around | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
is hooking in a great friend of yours, a guy who I know you've | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
always loved to listen to, Neil Young, to play on the album, | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
and that must have been quite special. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
That was pretty surreal, but I really wouldn't have thought | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
of doing that if I hadn't been working with Bjorn Yttling, | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
and just trying to impress him, because I wouldn't have thought | 0:03:54 | 0:03:57 | |
of calling Neil Young myself. | 0:03:57 | 0:03:58 | |
But you've known Neil Young for years, haven't you? | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
You played with him. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:01 | |
Didn't you support him? | 0:04:02 | 0:04:04 | |
Yeah, but I don't ask someone like that, "Will | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
you play on my record?" | 0:04:07 | 0:04:08 | |
I wouldn't even think of it. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:10 | |
But we had one that sounded like a Neil Young song. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
We kept referring to it as the Neil Young song, | 0:04:13 | 0:04:15 | |
and just to kind of wind him up, I'd say, of course, we can always | 0:04:15 | 0:04:19 | |
get Neil Young to play on this, but I never meant it. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:23 | |
After saying that for about six months, I thought, actually, | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
I could get Neil Young to play on this. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
That explains... | 0:04:28 | 0:04:28 | |
I called him up, and he said yes. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
That explains Neil Young. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:32 | |
You've got to explain to me John McEnroe. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:34 | |
People watching this will know John McEnroe as a Wimbledon champion | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
and top tennis player, and here he is rocking up | 0:04:37 | 0:04:40 | |
on your album playing guitar. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:41 | |
Well, John has always played guitar, and he's always been really | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
interested in rock guitar. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:45 | |
He's John McEnroe, so he has this kind of adolescent, in my view, | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
no offence to him... | 0:04:49 | 0:04:50 | |
Ancient adolescent, I guess we'd say. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:51 | |
Now, yeah. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:52 | |
But he loves playing rock guitar, and so whenever I played | 0:04:52 | 0:04:55 | |
with The Pretenders in New York, I'd always invite him | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
on stage, and he's fearless. | 0:04:58 | 0:04:59 | |
He'll get on stage with anyone and play if he's called upon. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:02 | |
For years, I've tried to encourage him to stop doing | 0:05:02 | 0:05:05 | |
the other things he does, charity matches and things | 0:05:05 | 0:05:07 | |
like that, where he gets together | 0:05:07 | 0:05:09 | |
with some other tennis players, and play guitar. | 0:05:09 | 0:05:11 | |
I say, "Why don't you just actually get in a band?" | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
In all honesty, is he any good? | 0:05:14 | 0:05:16 | |
Yeah, he is good. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:17 | |
He's as good as me. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:18 | |
But it's a question of taste, I suppose. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:21 | |
If he was focused and he was playing in a band, he's got it. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
To do the kind of thing he wants to do, which would be sort | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
of heavy-metal-come-punk a little bit, I guess I would describe. | 0:05:28 | 0:05:35 | |
Let me, if I may, go back to the beginning with you. | 0:05:35 | 0:05:38 | |
You're from Ohio, from the midwest of the United States. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:41 | |
It's not a place I associate with a big music scene. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:44 | |
I don't know if there was when you were growing up in Akron, | 0:05:44 | 0:05:47 | |
but you obviously made a conscious decision pretty early | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
on in your life that you didn't want to stay in Akron. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
Is that because there was some fundamental | 0:05:53 | 0:05:55 | |
rebellious streak in you, and is that connected | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
to your music as well? | 0:05:57 | 0:06:00 | |
Well, I like cities, and the city of Akron pretty much | 0:06:00 | 0:06:05 | |
had collapsed by the time I was a teenager, you know with | 0:06:05 | 0:06:09 | |
the mall culture, the car culture. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:10 | |
American cities, from coast to coast, really, | 0:06:10 | 0:06:14 | |
except for the obvious big ones that everyone knows about here - Chicago, | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
New York, even Philadelphia - most of the cities lost | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
their downtown and lost their urban feel and became more | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
like what you could call a metroplex, a very suburban sprawl, | 0:06:23 | 0:06:26 | |
where everyone would have to spend most of the day in a car, | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
really, to get anywhere. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:31 | |
That's what I was leaving. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:38 | |
And how did you get into music? | 0:06:38 | 0:06:40 | |
Just listening to radio. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:45 | |
I grew up when all the best stuff happened as far as rock and roll. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:52 | |
You still feel that today? | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
You've lived through various eras of rock and roll. | 0:06:54 | 0:06:57 | |
Are you kidding? | 0:06:57 | 0:06:59 | |
The first album I had was the first Beatles album. | 0:07:00 | 0:07:04 | |
I was right there. | 0:07:04 | 0:07:05 | |
I had the first Jimi Hendrix album, Led Zeppelin, all the greats. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
You could name 25 amazing bands, Moby Grape, Buffalo Springfield, | 0:07:09 | 0:07:11 | |
all those bands out on the west coast. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
There was tonnes. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:14 | |
Spooky Tooth. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:15 | |
All these amazing English bands. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:16 | |
Every day was Christmas if you were a rock and roll fan | 0:07:16 | 0:07:20 | |
and you liked bands, because everywhere you looked | 0:07:20 | 0:07:22 | |
there were amazing bands. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:27 | |
I think it over, to be honest. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:36 | |
There's still bands and they are still out there touring, and, | 0:07:36 | 0:07:41 | |
especially in America, they love guitar-based | 0:07:41 | 0:07:49 | |
rock and roll, so... | 0:07:49 | 0:07:50 | |
I toured with ZZ Top and the Stray Cats a few years ago, | 0:07:50 | 0:07:54 | |
and that was my audience. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:57 | |
I love that, because it was all these sort of bikers and waitress | 0:07:57 | 0:08:01 | |
types, who loved guitar-based rock. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:02 | |
It's sort of pared down, pretty simple rock and roll. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
It couldn't be more simple than what I like. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:07 | |
That's about as simple as you go in this game. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
Two guitars, bass and drums, maybe some keyboards, and some songs. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:13 | |
Your sense that that America, the America of I guess | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
the early to mid 70s, was going in the wrong direction. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
Was that a big part of your decision to head to the UK? | 0:08:19 | 0:08:22 | |
I don't know if I was that aware of what was going on. | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
I knew I wanted to see the world, and I liked English music, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
and I wanted to get out of cars. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
I could see the way the car culture was going. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:34 | |
That I could see. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:35 | |
You were sort of out of love with your own country, really? | 0:08:35 | 0:08:39 | |
I what? | 0:08:39 | 0:08:39 | |
You were out of love with your own country. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:42 | |
Yeah, but I was in love with England. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:44 | |
I was always in love with England, even as a child, because I thought | 0:08:44 | 0:08:48 | |
everyone rode horses here. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:49 | |
I grew up thinking England must be the greatest place, | 0:08:49 | 0:08:51 | |
and then all those English bands came along, and I was absolutely | 0:08:51 | 0:08:55 | |
in love with England, and always have been. | 0:08:55 | 0:08:57 | |
And you've pretty much stayed based here ever since? | 0:08:57 | 0:08:59 | |
Yeah. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:00 | |
Because you ended up forming a band. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:01 | |
Again, it's fascinating to think about what it must have been like. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:05 | |
You formed a band with three guys who actually were from a very | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
rural part of England. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:09 | |
Hereford, yeah. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:10 | |
Hereford, which, for those who don't know it, is a pretty small, | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
rural, isolated town. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:14 | |
And here were you, rocking up from the United States with a very | 0:09:14 | 0:09:18 | |
particular love of rock and roll music. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
How did you all gel together and come to be The Pretenders? | 0:09:20 | 0:09:23 | |
This is really a long story. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
Give me the shortest version you can. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:27 | |
I'll give you the short version. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:31 | |
I went to Lemmy and I said, "Look, man, I'm getting | 0:09:31 | 0:09:34 | |
this band together." | 0:09:34 | 0:09:35 | |
I'd been in England for about five, seven years. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
I'd travelled around a lot once I wanted to get my band together. | 0:09:37 | 0:09:41 | |
I lived through the punk thing. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
I knew everybody. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:43 | |
But I still didn't have my band together, so I went to Lemmy, | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
and I said, you know... | 0:09:47 | 0:09:52 | |
When you say Lemmy, you mean Lemmy from motorhead? | 0:09:52 | 0:09:54 | |
Yeah, Lemmy. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:55 | |
I was kind of feeling sorry for myself, and he said, "Well, | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
no one said it was going to be easy." | 0:09:58 | 0:10:00 | |
And he wasn't really as sympathetic as I thought he might be, | 0:10:00 | 0:10:04 | |
but he said, "There's one drummer kid in town that | 0:10:04 | 0:10:06 | |
you might want to check out. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:08 | |
So, anyway, | 0:10:08 | 0:10:08 | |
I found this guy in street. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:10 | |
I saw him one day, and I said, "Hey, is your name gas?" | 0:10:10 | 0:10:14 | |
And he went, "Yeah." | 0:10:14 | 0:10:15 | |
So I said, "Be in a band with me." | 0:10:15 | 0:10:17 | |
And he was from Hereford, so he didn't really last, | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
but through him I met Pete Farndon. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
Through Pete Farndon, another long story, we found | 0:10:22 | 0:10:24 | |
James Honeyman-Scott, who I think is one of the last | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
great guitar heroes. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:31 | |
I'm sorry that he went so early, and at the time when he died, | 0:10:31 | 0:10:35 | |
I didn't publicly make much of it, as people would these days, maybe, | 0:10:35 | 0:10:39 | |
but I don't think that's right. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:40 | |
He really never got his due for the contribution he made | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
as a rock guitar player. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
That I regret. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:45 | |
That's one of the reasons I still do this, actually, because I want them | 0:10:45 | 0:10:49 | |
to have their place in history, because that's what | 0:10:49 | 0:10:52 | |
was important to them. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:54 | |
That is very interesting. | 0:10:54 | 0:10:58 | |
It's actually very poignant, because within years | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
of having your big success with The Pretenders, | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
when everything really took off in 1980, 81, | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
82, within a couple of years of that, two of the original | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
band members had died. | 0:11:07 | 0:11:08 | |
Yeah. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:13 | |
Both drugs-related. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
That must have been, for you personally, | 0:11:18 | 0:11:19 | |
extraordinarily hard. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:21 | |
Well, yeah, of course it was, but I'm not trying to make it seem | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
like it was less of a bummer than it was, but everyone goes | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
through stuff in their lives, and I think to look at someone | 0:11:29 | 0:11:32 | |
and say, "Wow, she's had a hard..." | 0:11:32 | 0:11:38 | |
Frankly, who hasn't? | 0:11:38 | 0:11:41 | |
Everyone loses family and friends. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
You go through this stuff in your life. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:51 | |
Yeah, I could have... | 0:11:51 | 0:11:55 | |
Without going into too much detail... | 0:11:55 | 0:11:57 | |
It was so traumatic, it probably didn't bother me | 0:11:57 | 0:11:59 | |
as much at the time, and I was pregnant for the first | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
time and I didn't know how I was going to deal with that. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:06 | |
I had to find some other guys to play with and get back on stage | 0:12:06 | 0:12:10 | |
and keep my thing alive, because I didn't have anything else. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
You know, it was that or I don't know what. | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
My aspirations weren't much higher than maybe I could be a waitress. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
I didn't have a lot to fall back on. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:21 | |
Was there ever a time, in that period of great success | 0:12:22 | 0:12:24 | |
but real tragedy as well, where you fell close | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
to the edge yourself? | 0:12:27 | 0:12:29 | |
Well, yeah. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:34 | |
A lot. | 0:12:34 | 0:12:35 | |
Of course. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:35 | |
Because of drugs? | 0:12:35 | 0:12:36 | |
All sorts of things, you know. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:38 | |
Guys I was going out with, they were all wrong, and drugs... | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
Stuff that everyone does, everyone goes through. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:43 | |
I don't think my story... | 0:12:43 | 0:12:45 | |
The only thing unique about my story is I've | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
had this like amazing band - bands, now. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
And that's what I'm good at, finding good bands and making sure | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
the guys sound great. | 0:12:54 | 0:13:05 | |
You smile about it now, and you've sort of left it behind in a way, | 0:13:05 | 0:13:09 | |
but is there any part of that Chrissie Hynde back then | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
that is still with you today? | 0:13:12 | 0:13:19 | |
Do you ever get bleak and black times today that remind you of some | 0:13:19 | 0:13:27 | |
of the times you had then? | 0:13:27 | 0:13:29 | |
Er... | 0:13:29 | 0:13:29 | |
I have maybe bleak and black times that remind me | 0:13:29 | 0:13:32 | |
of the times I'm having now, and, you know, I miss them. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
I miss those guys. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:36 | |
There's a lot about it... | 0:13:36 | 0:13:38 | |
But what can I do about it? | 0:13:38 | 0:13:40 | |
I've tried to keep the music alive to keep their memory going. | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
I could have said, "Right, that's it, it's over, | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
and I'll do something else now, I won't play those songs again." | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
But that didn't seem right, because we'd put | 0:13:49 | 0:13:51 | |
a lot of work into that. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:53 | |
And they had a real, unique sound. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
It wasn't my sound. | 0:13:55 | 0:14:03 | |
It was not the Chrissie Hynde sound. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:04 | |
The sound of The Pretenders really didn't have a sound. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
It was more, I would say, equally with my songs and my voice, | 0:14:07 | 0:14:11 | |
but it was mainly inspired by the sound of James Honeyman-Scott, | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
and the other guys, Pete Farndon and Martin Chambers, | 0:14:14 | 0:14:16 | |
you know. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:18 | |
Let me ask you a little bit about the voice, | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
because a lot of people watching this will have such a clear sort | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
of sound in their head of a Chrissie Hynde voice, | 0:14:24 | 0:14:27 | |
because it is a very distinctive. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:29 | |
Do you recognise it? | 0:14:29 | 0:14:31 | |
Do you know there is something very special about your voice? | 0:14:31 | 0:14:34 | |
Well, I guess that's subjective. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:35 | |
If you think there is, then there is for you. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
For me, I found it very difficult to listen back to for many years, | 0:14:38 | 0:14:42 | |
and if anyone was even in the control room and they... | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
You know, a lot of singers are like this. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:47 | |
If they soloed the voice, I would just die of embarrassment, | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
and I didn't want to be watched while I was singing. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:55 | |
I don't like people around when I'm trying... | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
I was like that painting too. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:58 | |
I don't want people around when I'm doing my thing. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
Really? | 0:15:01 | 0:15:02 | |
Of course, you have to get on stage. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:04 | |
You've got to do the live gigs, and then there's no hiding place. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
No, but that's different, because you're with the band. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
You're up there with your little gang. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:12 | |
It's a weird one, because there's a lot about it that | 0:15:12 | 0:15:16 | |
doesn't feel very good. | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
It was probably after about 200 shows that I didn't hate | 0:15:19 | 0:15:22 | |
the idea of going onstage. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:26 | |
You seriously had stage fright? | 0:15:26 | 0:15:31 | |
Yeah, of course. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:34 | |
Everyone does. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:34 | |
Don't think that this confidence thing, that there a few chosen few | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
people that are confident. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:38 | |
None of us are, especially people in bands. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
We're the dropouts that didn't have much confidence and weren't | 0:15:41 | 0:15:43 | |
very good at anything, and are blagging it, and probably | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
weren't very good at things. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:47 | |
For you in particular, you always had such a strong image onstage. | 0:15:48 | 0:15:51 | |
Hey, I'm six feet above you. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:52 | |
I'm on the stage. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:53 | |
I can do what I want up there. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:56 | |
So what am I going to do? | 0:15:56 | 0:15:58 | |
Every day you have to make a decision about everything. | 0:15:58 | 0:16:00 | |
You make a good decision or a bad one. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
I'm going to be onstage. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:04 | |
Do I want to look like I have no confidence and I'm afraid? | 0:16:04 | 0:16:08 | |
Because that's not what people want to see. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:10 | |
I'm there for them. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:11 | |
You see one guy in the audience that you kind of think, | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
"I'll play to him." | 0:16:14 | 0:16:15 | |
If there's a guy like that there. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:17 | |
If there is, that helps, or they'll be one kind of crazy | 0:16:17 | 0:16:20 | |
dancer in a balcony, and the whole band will fixate | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
on that, and that carries you through the whole show. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
Any bit of madness can get you through it. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
Let me ask you about being a successful woman in rock and roll. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:32 | |
I know you've always said, look, it really hasn't made a difference | 0:16:32 | 0:16:36 | |
to me being a man or a woman, it's rock and roll. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
But it is a business that, to an outsider, | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
often looks very sexist. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:46 | |
Have you never felt that in your own career and what happened to you? | 0:16:46 | 0:16:52 | |
I was... | 0:16:52 | 0:16:52 | |
It took me a long time to... | 0:16:52 | 0:16:57 | |
I didn't want to pull out my guitar and play in front of guys | 0:16:57 | 0:17:01 | |
because I knew I wasn't very good and it was mainly guys, | 0:17:01 | 0:17:04 | |
and I was shy to do that in front of the guys. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
You know, so... | 0:17:08 | 0:17:08 | |
That part of it, and I didn't think it was... | 0:17:08 | 0:17:11 | |
Did you never have people, like promoters, agents, managers, | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
telling you how to look? | 0:17:14 | 0:17:16 | |
Oh, no. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:21 | |
That's a myth. | 0:17:21 | 0:17:22 | |
No. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:22 | |
You know, I've never met any musicians where, | 0:17:22 | 0:17:25 | |
if a girl walked in the room, I don't care if it's Jeff Beck | 0:17:25 | 0:17:29 | |
or any of the greats, it could be Billy Gibbons, | 0:17:29 | 0:17:32 | |
anyone, any record company guy. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:33 | |
A girl walks in the room, picks up a guitar and plays great, | 0:17:33 | 0:17:37 | |
they're all going to go, I want to play with her. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
You know, because they want to be around them. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:42 | |
Men want to be with women. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:44 | |
Sure, but isn't there some sleazebag who's going to say, | 0:17:44 | 0:17:46 | |
I want to play with her, but I want her to look like this. | 0:17:46 | 0:17:50 | |
I want her to wear that. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:52 | |
And I want the image to be just so. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:54 | |
If there is, I've never met him. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:56 | |
Here's something you wrote. | 0:17:56 | 0:17:58 | |
I think you had your tongue firmly in your cheek at the time, | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
but when you launched an album, I think it was Last | 0:18:01 | 0:18:05 | |
of the Independents. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:05 | |
You also published some notes, you said, for any prospective... | 0:18:05 | 0:18:08 | |
I did that... | 0:18:08 | 0:18:09 | |
This girlfriend of mine, Angela Harrington, she was starting | 0:18:09 | 0:18:11 | |
a magazine, and she kept on to me... | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
You know what I'm talking about? | 0:18:14 | 0:18:16 | |
Yes, something for her magazine. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:17 | |
Well, let me quote you one line, just see how you feel about it now. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
OK. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:22 | |
I just did it to get her off my back. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
There you go. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:25 | |
These were notes to any prospective rock chick. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:28 | |
You said, "Look, don't moan about being a chick. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:30 | |
Don't refer to feminism or complain about discrimination. | 0:18:30 | 0:18:32 | |
We've all been thrown down stairs and screwed around, | 0:18:32 | 0:18:35 | |
but no one wants to hear a whining female. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:37 | |
Just write a loosely-disguised song about it and clean up." | 0:18:37 | 0:18:42 | |
Well, that's certainly good advice, isn't it? | 0:18:42 | 0:18:44 | |
Well, feminists listening and watching this might think, why | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
not introduce some feminist protest? | 0:18:47 | 0:18:52 | |
What about me? | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
I'm almost like the poster girl for feminism. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
You know, everything about me says feminism. | 0:18:56 | 0:18:58 | |
So I don't think... | 0:18:58 | 0:18:59 | |
Isn't it better to walk it than talk it, given a choice? | 0:18:59 | 0:19:03 | |
Right. | 0:19:03 | 0:19:04 | |
I just wonder, again reflecting on your own life, I mean, | 0:19:04 | 0:19:07 | |
you've raised kids as well as having a career in rock and roll, but that, | 0:19:07 | 0:19:11 | |
I guess, is not easy. | 0:19:11 | 0:19:14 | |
Again, one more thought on this, and it's quite an amusing one, | 0:19:14 | 0:19:17 | |
in a way, because you, I think, once got a note from a band. | 0:19:17 | 0:19:21 | |
I don't think you knew them, but they liked your music. | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
But they then sent you a note saying, you know what, | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
your records used to be great before you got domesticated. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
Something like that, yeah. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:33 | |
And that, I know it was meant to be amusing, but also... | 0:19:33 | 0:19:37 | |
No, it wasn't meant to be amusing. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:40 | |
They were serious, and it's true. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:41 | |
I mean, domesticity kills off this stuff, definitely. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:45 | |
So, what, you don't think it's really possible for a woman who's | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
just had kids to be in the music business, to make rock and roll? | 0:19:48 | 0:19:54 | |
No, I never said that. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:56 | |
I said domesticity, for any artist, you know, | 0:19:56 | 0:19:59 | |
if you're comfortable and you're getting on with domestic life, | 0:19:59 | 0:20:03 | |
it's not going to be cutting edge rock and roll. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:08 | |
You're just going to have to lay out for a few years. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
Did you? | 0:20:11 | 0:20:12 | |
Yeah, I didn't tour for eight years. | 0:20:12 | 0:20:14 | |
And my kids never saw me on stage until they were 14. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:17 | |
It was past their bedtime. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:20 | |
I was never photographed with them or talked about them either, so, | 0:20:20 | 0:20:26 | |
you know, I just kind of stayed out of it. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:28 | |
Elvis Costello is my age. | 0:20:28 | 0:20:30 | |
He's probably made four times more... | 0:20:30 | 0:20:31 | |
He's probably done 40 records to my ten records, probably. | 0:20:31 | 0:20:35 | |
Let me talk about politics in a different way, | 0:20:35 | 0:20:39 | |
and that is the way that you, throughout your life, | 0:20:39 | 0:20:42 | |
professional life, have always made a point of being a campaigner, | 0:20:42 | 0:20:45 | |
particularly for animal rights. | 0:20:45 | 0:20:46 | |
I guess it's fair to say that has been central | 0:20:46 | 0:20:51 | |
to your outlook on life. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:52 | |
Why animal rights? | 0:20:52 | 0:20:55 | |
Why did you get so passionately involved with them? | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
That's just something that you're born with. | 0:20:58 | 0:20:59 | |
Some people are and some people aren't. | 0:21:00 | 0:21:01 | |
It's not something you learn. | 0:21:01 | 0:21:03 | |
Probably like most of human behaviour. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:08 | |
Some people have one thing that you're good | 0:21:08 | 0:21:10 | |
at or you're interested in. | 0:21:10 | 0:21:11 | |
And with me I just don't like to see animals mistreated, | 0:21:12 | 0:21:15 | |
and I was one of those little girls that loved animals, | 0:21:15 | 0:21:18 | |
horses and things. | 0:21:18 | 0:21:19 | |
So as I got older, and, of course, the whole vegetarian thing goes | 0:21:19 | 0:21:23 | |
into the environmental picture, and it's all related. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:29 | |
I haven't campaigned that much. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
I've been vocal about it. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:35 | |
Definitely, promoting vegetarianism is my thing. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:36 | |
I don't like meat eaters. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:38 | |
You know, I don't like it. | 0:21:38 | 0:21:39 | |
It's indefensible. | 0:21:39 | 0:21:40 | |
Why would you kill an animal if you didn't have to? | 0:21:40 | 0:21:43 | |
You say you don't like meat eaters. | 0:21:43 | 0:21:45 | |
Have you, in your life, basically made a point | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
of being close to and being friends with people who are either | 0:21:48 | 0:21:51 | |
vegetarian or vegans? | 0:21:51 | 0:21:52 | |
Yeah, I don't like them either. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:54 | |
Meat eaters, it's just wrong. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:58 | |
If you have to kill, do it. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:02 | |
You know, sometimes there is a time and a place for everything. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:05 | |
I'm not necessarily a pacifist. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:06 | |
I'm definitely a warrior. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:07 | |
I'll go out on the front line every time. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:10 | |
Hey, well, you did. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:11 | |
I'm ready to go at all times. | 0:22:11 | 0:22:13 | |
You pushed it pretty far. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:14 | |
A dozen years or so ago, in New York City, you were involved | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
in a very direct action. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:19 | |
Yeah, I didn't push it very far. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:21 | |
I've been in some protests with Peta and gone to jail. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:24 | |
But pushing it far... | 0:22:24 | 0:22:25 | |
It's pretty far. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:26 | |
When you go into a store, like the Gap store in New York, and... | 0:22:26 | 0:22:30 | |
Not as far as someone who goes in undercover working | 0:22:30 | 0:22:32 | |
in a slaughterhouse. | 0:22:33 | 0:22:33 | |
That's going far. | 0:22:33 | 0:22:34 | |
When you really get in there, and you dig in, and you're watching | 0:22:34 | 0:22:38 | |
animals who are not being stunned and are getting skinned. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:40 | |
We're talking about the consumers, and to change the mind of a consumer | 0:22:40 | 0:22:44 | |
who thinks it's all right to kill animals, I can't do it. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
I mean, Morrisey did it with his song. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
A lot of people became vegetarian after hearing Meat Is Murder | 0:22:50 | 0:22:53 | |
because it made them... | 0:22:53 | 0:22:54 | |
You know, I suppose, it's like a switch. | 0:22:54 | 0:23:01 | |
I'm 3% of the population in the west. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
Even India's now becoming meat eaters. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:06 | |
And China as well. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:07 | |
Yeah, so it is what it is. | 0:23:08 | 0:23:09 | |
We're not going to win this thing. | 0:23:09 | 0:23:11 | |
People kill animals because they think it's | 0:23:11 | 0:23:13 | |
all right to kill them. | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
We're here to stop that if we can. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:17 | |
We don't think it's right, and we're here to stop you, even if we're | 0:23:17 | 0:23:21 | |
in a very small minority. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:22 | |
I'm not even trying to make you change your mind, | 0:23:22 | 0:23:25 | |
because you have all the information, and there's nothing | 0:23:25 | 0:23:27 | |
I can tell you that you can't find out on the Internet now. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:31 | |
All you have to do is pop in "meat-eating clip", go, | 0:23:31 | 0:23:34 | |
and it will tell you all you need to know about it. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:37 | |
So I can't tell you any more. | 0:23:37 | 0:23:39 | |
If you think that's all right to do, as far as I'm concerned, | 0:23:39 | 0:23:42 | |
I'm here to stop you. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:44 | |
That doesn't put me on... | 0:23:44 | 0:23:45 | |
I'm a minority. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:46 | |
I'm just trying to hold my ground here. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:48 | |
I have to sleep at night too, so I have to do things that make me | 0:23:48 | 0:23:52 | |
feel at least I've tried to do the right thing that day. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:58 | |
Chrissie Hynde, we have to end there, but thank you very much | 0:23:58 | 0:24:01 | |
for being on HARDtalk. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:02 | |
Pleasure. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:02 | |
Thanks a lot. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:27 | |
Good morning. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:33 | |
There is wind and rain in the forecast for the British | 0:24:33 | 0:24:36 | |
Isles over the next few days but nothing like the wet and windy | 0:24:36 | 0:24:40 | |
weather that is being brought in the Caribbean by Hurricane Irma. | 0:24:40 | 0:24:43 |