Mehmet Simsek, Turkey's Deputy Prime Minister HARDtalk


Mehmet Simsek, Turkey's Deputy Prime Minister

Similar Content

Browse content similar to Mehmet Simsek, Turkey's Deputy Prime Minister. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

people complain about Angela Eagle and the Iraq war and that could be

:00:00.:00:00.

his silver bullet. Thank you for coming in. Now on BBC News it is

:00:00.:00:00.

time for HARDtalk. Welcome to HARDtalk with Ms Aina

:00:00.:00:18.

Badawi. The attempted coup in Turkey may have been crushed, but has it

:00:19.:00:26.

exposed holes in bed gom's power? Members of the judiciary and police

:00:27.:00:33.

have been arrested or relieved from duty. My guest is Mehmet Simsek. Is

:00:34.:00:45.

that a gun to polarising a figure and is his grip on Turkey weaker

:00:46.:00:47.

than it seems? -- Erdogan. Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek

:00:48.:01:15.

in Ankara, welcome to HARDtalk. What an extraordinary time for Turkey.

:01:16.:01:20.

Nearly 300 people dead, clashes on the streets between the police and

:01:21.:01:26.

mutinous soldiers, civilians. 1500 wounded, the parliament in Ankara

:01:27.:01:30.

was bombed and President Erdogan hunted down by mutinous troops. This

:01:31.:01:37.

coup, had it been better organised, could have succeeded, couldn't it?

:01:38.:01:44.

What, thank you. Yes, it was really an extraordinary night in a really

:01:45.:01:53.

big nightmare and certainly it seems that it was quite an elaborate

:01:54.:01:59.

attempt to essentially get rid of a democratically elected government. I

:02:00.:02:05.

think with details coming out, certainly a fairly elaborate attempt

:02:06.:02:11.

and we have been very lucky to escape. I think not lucky, but I

:02:12.:02:15.

think people stood up for democracy and people were so courageous. This

:02:16.:02:23.

will probably go down in history where unarmed people stood up to

:02:24.:02:29.

tanks and planes and armed gangsters, rogue elements within the

:02:30.:02:35.

Army, and prevented a disruption in Turkish democracy, and hopefully

:02:36.:02:41.

that will prevent future attempts, not only in Turkey, but in other

:02:42.:02:46.

emerging democracies. It should be a source of inspiration. You were in

:02:47.:02:51.

your constituency. Where you worried? Were you worried for your

:02:52.:02:55.

safety, for instance? Yes, of course. Here is how things develop.

:02:56.:03:05.

I was in my constituency, nearly 2 million population and hosting

:03:06.:03:13.

250,000 Syrian refugees. I was with the OECD Secretary General. We were

:03:14.:03:22.

due to fly to Istanbul and the chief security and the governors said they

:03:23.:03:25.

wanted to have a word with me and they mention the work unusual

:03:26.:03:31.

movements of troops and that these might -- this might be the beginning

:03:32.:03:35.

of the military koo. It was shocking, but I said we have to

:03:36.:03:41.

fight them off. -- military coup. Let us set up a crisis management

:03:42.:03:47.

centre. I ended up going to democracy Square and within hours we

:03:48.:03:51.

had a quarter of a million people the and literally I think that

:03:52.:03:59.

massive show prevented the local general from getting out of his

:04:00.:04:04.

military camp. So you are talking about people power. We certainly saw

:04:05.:04:09.

people in the streets, but that was a worrying aspect of what happened

:04:10.:04:12.

because basically in some cases we saw lynch mobs turning on some of

:04:13.:04:19.

the soldiers and some of the soldiers, as you know, Deputy Prime

:04:20.:04:23.

Minister, were teenagers. Privates. They thought they were taking part

:04:24.:04:29.

in military exercises, not a military coup. There was a report of

:04:30.:04:33.

a soldier having his throat slit. Are you going to investigate this

:04:34.:04:39.

kind of moral justice? Absolutely, and your last bit is by the way

:04:40.:04:44.

incorrect. No one had his throat slit. That was misreporting. It has

:04:45.:04:51.

been fortified, but certainly we cannot approve of such acts. But

:04:52.:04:58.

imagine, you know, an army of a country, rogue elements within the

:04:59.:05:05.

Army essentially having tanks, aeroplanes, attacking people,

:05:06.:05:11.

civilians and the parliament and other security forces. So you can

:05:12.:05:16.

imagine the atmosphere. Of course maybe mistakes were made, but

:05:17.:05:20.

clearly the biggest crime was to turn military guns on people on a

:05:21.:05:30.

democratically elected government and Parliament. President Erdogan

:05:31.:05:37.

has said that the plotters will pay a heavy price. He wants to restore

:05:38.:05:42.

the death penalty in Turkey. Is that going to happen? No. No decision has

:05:43.:05:48.

been made on the death penalty. Certainly we are responding to

:05:49.:05:53.

massive public pressure to reinstate the death penalty. My government

:05:54.:06:01.

eliminated the death penalty teed achieved the EU accession talks at

:06:02.:06:05.

the beginning of the last decade. No decision has been made, but let's

:06:06.:06:10.

face it, I think perpetrators of this failed coup have two faced

:06:11.:06:16.

before. Justice otherwise it will be a huge injustice to Turkish people,

:06:17.:06:21.

to Turkish democracy. We have to stay within the rules. Sorry to

:06:22.:06:26.

interrupt you, but let us clarify the death penalty question because

:06:27.:06:34.

the EU foreign policy chief has said no country that wishes to join the

:06:35.:06:35.

European Union can have the death penalty on its statutes books, but

:06:36.:06:40.

yet the president is talking about restoring the death penalty. Is he

:06:41.:06:44.

whip up sentiment? No, I am just whip up sentiment? No, I am just

:06:45.:06:52.

saying that today the Prime Minister was honourable and making it clear

:06:53.:06:56.

that whilst he understands public demand for reinstating the death

:06:57.:07:02.

penalty, this is not a foregone conclusion. We don't have the hollow

:07:03.:07:09.

fibre to retreat to do so. It has to be discussed that the parliament and

:07:10.:07:22.

with other elements of society. Will it be debated in Parliament? The

:07:23.:07:27.

restoration of the death penalty? There may be consultations on

:07:28.:07:33.

whether or not in a narrow way something could be be introduced,

:07:34.:07:38.

but again, even that has not been decided. All right. There is another

:07:39.:07:42.

concern that President Erdogan will see what has gone on as a bank

:07:43.:07:47.

cheque to move against his opponents, whether or not they were

:07:48.:07:54.

implicated in the coup. And Istanbul -based lawyer talks about arrest

:07:55.:08:01.

warrants issued for thousands of people. Our big issue? Is it a

:08:02.:08:12.

witchhunt, Deputy Prime Minister? -- how were they issued. We already

:08:13.:08:20.

identified elements of the judiciary, they were remnants of the

:08:21.:08:33.

Gulen movement. We think that they were complicit in the coup. There

:08:34.:08:47.

was already a process. That process was accelerated to read juice the

:08:48.:08:55.

risk of the additional threat on the back of the military coup. As far as

:08:56.:09:00.

the military is concerned, all along we knew that there was a very

:09:01.:09:06.

significant presence of Gulen movement people in the Army and in

:09:07.:09:12.

fact, in early August there was a plan to retire most of them from

:09:13.:09:17.

military positions because every year you get basically a military

:09:18.:09:24.

high Council gathering that decides who to promote, who to retire. We

:09:25.:09:32.

get the answer. You are saying that the 15,000 or so officials who have

:09:33.:09:38.

either been arrested or relief from duty, suspended from duty, you are

:09:39.:09:41.

accelerating that process, but I accelerating that process, but I

:09:42.:09:44.

have to put it to you that one of the judges that has been suspended

:09:45.:09:51.

headed a panel ruling that said that Turkey's Bannan on Twitter was a

:09:52.:09:58.

breach of the Constitution. He is a member of the Constitutional Court,

:09:59.:10:01.

big country's 's body. If that the type of person included in these

:10:02.:10:13.

arrests? Not his arrest, sorry, his suspension from duty. You cannot

:10:14.:10:17.

take things out of context. We do have what appears to be a religious

:10:18.:10:25.

movement run by a retired preacher out of Pennsylvania. It has

:10:26.:10:31.

infiltrated the hierarchy of the judiciary and the military and state

:10:32.:10:38.

apparatus. We call it a parallel state. I do not believe that anyone

:10:39.:10:42.

would tolerate such a rogue element in the state and let us face it, the

:10:43.:10:47.

carnage that this military coup has triggered and caused and have it

:10:48.:10:53.

been successful, what sort of setback would Turkey have had?

:10:54.:10:59.

Taking us back to the dark days... I have to interrupt you, Deputy Prime

:11:00.:11:02.

Minister. You and your government are all pointing the finger at the

:11:03.:11:09.

to the Gulen, a cleric in his 70s who suffers from diabetes and this

:11:10.:11:16.

in Pennsylvania. He was once an ally of President Erdogan, but they fell

:11:17.:11:22.

out. He denies anything to do with the failed coup. Want to make that

:11:23.:11:29.

clear. Do you have evidence that his supporters were involved in the

:11:30.:11:35.

attempted coup? Let me give you one simple piece of evidence that has

:11:36.:11:38.

been uncovered just two nights ago. In one of the tanks that was

:11:39.:11:44.

attacking Istanbul police headquarters, we arrested a

:11:45.:11:51.

gentleman who was sacked from Turkish police units a few years ago

:11:52.:11:56.

for affiliation with Gulen movement. He was in military uniform. Now, let

:11:57.:12:02.

me ask you a simple question. What would a civilian who has been sacked

:12:03.:12:07.

from the police. You years ago do in military uniform in a military tank,

:12:08.:12:13.

attacking Turkish police headquarters? It does not

:12:14.:12:18.

necessarily mean he is anything to do with Fetuli Gulen because you

:12:19.:12:22.

know what the Americans say. John Kerry the US Secretary of State has

:12:23.:12:27.

said to you, to Turkey, we have always said, give us the evidence.

:12:28.:12:35.

We need a legal... Because your government is asking that the cleric

:12:36.:12:41.

be extradited from Pennsylvania. The Americans are thinking of the

:12:42.:12:44.

evidence. Why do you give it to them? Fair enough. We are going to

:12:45.:12:50.

give them the evidence. We are going to be at the latest evidence to the

:12:51.:12:54.

file as well. The Justice minister has already announced that and we

:12:55.:13:00.

hope that the United States will uphold its own rules under the

:13:01.:13:05.

Patriot act. Even if someone unknowingly contributes to an

:13:06.:13:09.

association that supports, that turns out to be associated with

:13:10.:13:14.

terrorist activity, they are also guilty. We will see how the US

:13:15.:13:19.

supplies its own standards. But members of your government have gone

:13:20.:13:25.

further. On the 16th of July the Prime Minister said that the country

:13:26.:13:29.

that stands behind this man, the Tulik Gulen, is no friend to Turkey.

:13:30.:13:36.

The Labour Minister said he believed the Obama Administration was behind

:13:37.:13:42.

the coup. Both kind of comments are quite extravagant, aren't they? You

:13:43.:13:48.

are at a risk of seeing a deterioration in your relationship

:13:49.:13:52.

with the United States. Listen, I mean, the United States is our ally,

:13:53.:13:58.

is our strategic partner and that has not changed, that will not

:13:59.:14:09.

change. We have disagreements on... The Syrian parties supported by the

:14:10.:14:14.

Americans. That is right. Even in families you disagree. This is not a

:14:15.:14:20.

disagreement. This is accusing the United States of somehow been

:14:21.:14:25.

complicit. John Kerry told the Foreign Minister in a phone call on

:14:26.:14:29.

Saturday that public insinuations or claims about any role by the United

:14:30.:14:36.

States in the belt koo attempt is -- in beef sales coup attempt is

:14:37.:14:48.

harmful. What would you say to that? There was a press conference and the

:14:49.:14:51.

minister reiterated the importance we attach to our strategic and

:14:52.:14:58.

alliance relationship with the United States. That is behind us,

:14:59.:15:02.

but we still expect the United States to live up to its own

:15:03.:15:07.

standards and to help us combat rogue elements and terrorism here

:15:08.:15:14.

locally and globally. I think that is a fair expectation. President

:15:15.:15:27.

Erdogan was on holiday and he flee back to Istanbul. We understand

:15:28.:15:35.

fighter jets targeted his plane. It was said that the facts that they

:15:36.:15:43.

coup happened showed us that Erdogan is vulnerable. His grip on power is

:15:44.:15:49.

not quite what people might think it is? Come on. President Erdogan, a

:15:50.:16:01.

simple face time call help take millions of people to the streets

:16:02.:16:07.

that prevented a vicious military coup and you are telling me that

:16:08.:16:12.

President Erdogan does not have a strong solid footing among people?

:16:13.:16:19.

Sorry, Deputy Prime Minister, I don't see how you can extrapolate

:16:20.:16:23.

from the fact that many Turks were opposed to the koo view were

:16:24.:16:30.

necessarily supporters. -- the coup. Many said we don't want the military

:16:31.:16:35.

involved in politics, we want them to remain in the barracks. You can't

:16:36.:16:40.

say that they are all Erdogan supporters. We know they are not.

:16:41.:16:46.

The make this argument. I personally think that President Erdogan has

:16:47.:16:55.

proved how big a menace these illegal parallel state, these rogue

:16:56.:17:00.

elements, because for four years he has been talking about them and

:17:01.:17:04.

going after them and many people around him and in the opposition did

:17:05.:17:08.

not believe it. Now it has proved that this menace is actually quite a

:17:09.:17:15.

danger to Turkish democracy, to Turkey's future. You have made that

:17:16.:17:20.

point, but I am making a different point that President Erdogan is not

:17:21.:17:28.

perhaps as strong as we think. For example, one of those people

:17:29.:17:30.

arrested in connection with the failed coup is an aid. The general

:17:31.:17:39.

who had open access to the President. Some of these arrests of

:17:40.:17:48.

based on some of the information, some of these suspicions, so I think

:17:49.:17:52.

the judiciary is going to look at this, is going to investigate and

:17:53.:17:56.

pass judgment. Right now we are being very cautious. We have to be

:17:57.:18:02.

because we have experienced a huge event... But please do answer my

:18:03.:18:08.

question. I am sorry to interrupt you. His inner circle could have

:18:09.:18:16.

been involved, isn't that right? I can't really judge that because the

:18:17.:18:21.

investigation will uncover it, but that they tell you this, I believe

:18:22.:18:26.

that President Erdogan's standing amongst Turkish people on a broader

:18:27.:18:33.

political spectrum has strengthened. Support for President Erdogan, even

:18:34.:18:39.

from other political parties, he has a much stronger appeal. He already

:18:40.:18:44.

enjoys strong public support. I would disagree with you to that

:18:45.:18:49.

extent. We know opposition parties have come out against the coup and

:18:50.:18:53.

you say how much support he has, but in the November elections, the party

:18:54.:19:01.

won 49.4% of the vote. You have half the Turkish population who did not

:19:02.:19:06.

support the party and Erdogan. My point is you have to reach out to

:19:07.:19:10.

them, he has to reach out to them. As the Financial Times said, Erdogan

:19:11.:19:16.

would do better to recognise democracy is not just about winning

:19:17.:19:20.

elections, but the need to show respect and restraint to opponents

:19:21.:19:25.

and build shared support. That has been lacking. I would agree with

:19:26.:19:33.

you, I think this catalyst big events, this massive event,

:19:34.:19:38.

hopefully will help us, will serve as a catalyst to actually have

:19:39.:19:44.

reconciliation domestically. In fact, there was an extraordinary

:19:45.:19:49.

session of Turkish parliament where I personally am very encouraged by

:19:50.:19:52.

constructive statements, so maybe this will help Turkey change the

:19:53.:20:01.

design constitution. Maybe this will help Turkey reduce polarisation,

:20:02.:20:10.

these domestic political tension. Resident Erdogan has already called

:20:11.:20:13.

the leaders of the opposition to thank them for their stance against

:20:14.:20:21.

the military. -- President Erdogan. Going forward, with many different

:20:22.:20:26.

people from different walks of life, I think it is a good sign that maybe

:20:27.:20:32.

we are about to embark, just the way we did on international affairs with

:20:33.:20:42.

Russia and Israel, to start a process of reconciliation

:20:43.:20:44.

domestically. So when you took about making turkey less polarised, I put

:20:45.:20:48.

it to you that the most polarising figure in Turkish politics is

:20:49.:20:53.

President Erdogan. You either love him or hate him. Is he not now a

:20:54.:20:58.

liability for the ruling party? Would it not be in the national

:20:59.:21:03.

interest and the interest of your party if the president were to say,

:21:04.:21:09.

look, a lot of the criticisms, the failed coup was very much directed

:21:10.:21:14.

at me personally, Erdogan. I am going to move on. I disagree with

:21:15.:21:20.

you. If Turkish democracy is where it is today, if the Turkish economy

:21:21.:21:31.

has improved, it is largely on the back of President Erdogan. His

:21:32.:21:37.

reforms, his outreach to address Kurdish issues and many issues. I

:21:38.:21:41.

disagree with you. President Erdogan has been a reformist and he has been

:21:42.:21:50.

spot on on this rogue state, rogue elements. I think the vast majority

:21:51.:21:53.

of people are recognising and appreciating his dance over the last

:21:54.:22:01.

few years. -- stance. The last couple of years have been difficult.

:22:02.:22:09.

We had to elections in 2014, two of them in 2015, there has been a lot

:22:10.:22:13.

of domestic noise and he has personally been targeted by this

:22:14.:22:20.

illegal movement that today is committing all sorts of atrocities.

:22:21.:22:24.

I think a lot of people now will appreciate how right President

:22:25.:22:27.

Erdogan has been. You have said that he has had progressive reformist

:22:28.:22:32.

policies. You are in charge of the economy. Your party has done more

:22:33.:22:40.

for the impoverished parts of your society, but does it look good when

:22:41.:22:44.

President Erdogan builds a Paris that costs $700 million with over a

:22:45.:22:50.

thousand rooms rushed Janmaat that is on the BBC website from the

:22:51.:22:57.

Ankara arm of the chamber of architects. What does it look like

:22:58.:23:00.

when you say, he has helped the poor? You know, the rate of absolute

:23:01.:23:08.

poverty was 30% in 2002 when President Erdogan became Prime

:23:09.:23:11.

Minister. It is down to less than 2%. Does he need that Palace? Let me

:23:12.:23:21.

ask you this. The repair will for the House of Commons is ?5

:23:22.:23:30.

billion... But that is not used by just one person. So you are

:23:31.:23:36.

justifying his palace? It is not about his palace. No one is going to

:23:37.:23:40.

last for ever. President Erdogan will not last for ever. This is

:23:41.:23:47.

Turkish real estate. Very quickly, people are willing Turkey to

:23:48.:23:52.

succeed. It is a pivotal nation in a tough neighbourhood. Will you now

:23:53.:23:56.

see stability in your country? Very quickly. Absolutely. Democracy has

:23:57.:24:04.

won. Democracy will be strengthened. Domestic reconciliation is underway.

:24:05.:24:09.

Domestic tensions will ease and yes, people have won and we will do

:24:10.:24:13.

everything to make people happy, creating jobs and doing structural

:24:14.:24:18.

reforms. Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek in Ankara, thank you

:24:19.:24:21.

for coming on HARDtalk. Good evening. It was the hottest day

:24:22.:24:50.

of the year so far. We will take a

:24:51.:24:52.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS