Marine Le Pen, President of the National Front Party, France HARDtalk

Marine Le Pen, welcome to HARDtalk.

Merci.

Let me ask you a very broad question.

Do you see yourself and your political movement as part

of a worldwide phenomenon?

I'm thinking of Donald Trump in the United States.

I'm thinking of the vote for Brexit in the United Kingdom.

Do you think something is happening which the Front National,

your party, is a part of?

Well, let's focus in on the impact of the Brexit vote in the UK.

You described it as the most important event since the fall

of the Berlin Wall.

Do you really believe that France wants Frexit in the way

that the British people voted for Brexit?

Your problem is that all the polling evidence since the Brexit vote

is that the French people do not actually want to leave

the European Union.

In fact, more French people today say that they want to remain

inside than before the British vote.

So you're not actually expressing the will of the French people.

Forgive me for interrupting, but why would the French people look

across the Channel to Britain and want to follow Britain

when we see that the British pound is now at historic lows

against international currencies?

We see huge uncertainty, which is provoked by businesses

in Japan and across the world saying they are now very concerned

about staying in Britain and might well leave.

Why would the French want to follow that model?

Let us not forget that Britain hasn't actually left

the European Union yet.

And all of the indications are that the next two years

are going to be extraordinarily difficult for the UK Government.

OK, let's examine another key plank of your platform going

into the 2017 election season.

Not only are you telling the French people that you want to pull out

of the European Union, you're also telling them that

you want to halt immigration into France.

The truth is, you have consistently exaggerated the scale and the impact

of immigration into France.

You called it a tsunami, but it's not a tsunami.

Compare France and Germany, for example.

Last year France...

Hang on!

What was it?

About 70,000 asylum seeking immigrants.

Germany took...

Hang on!

Germany took half a million.

70,000 people seeking asylum in France, that's

not being submerged.

You say people come with no rights.

Of course, that's not true.

If people are fleeing persecution and war,

they do have rights under international law.

And two years ago, you said send them all back home.

Even to countries at war.

But you know that is a clear violation of the Geneva conventions

of international war.

Is that your message to the French people?

That you're prepared to violate international law?

Most politicians say they want to unite their countries.

You appear to want to divide yours, with the language you use.

Not just you, your party.

Right now there are Front National councils who are declaring

themselves immigrant-free zones.

You not so long ago talked about Muslims being seen praying

in the streets as equivalent to the feelings French people had

during the Nazi occupation.

The language you use is the language of division.

Is that what France wants?

I talked about exaggeration.

It seems to me, even in this interview, you are

exaggerating again.

When you talk about security you clearly, you clearly imply

that the migrants who are coming to France are bringing with them

terror, bringing with them the ideology of the Islamic State.

But the truth is, look at France's recent terror attacks,

God knows they have been terrible.

But the terror attacks, in the main, have been

the work of French citizens.

Men born in France or neighbouring Belgium.

These are the people.

So unless you're suggesting that they all be thrown out

of the country I don't quite see the connection with security.

Some of your own supporters feel that your messages have become

mixed in recent months.

For example, you told a French TV channel recently that "Islam

is compatible with the values of the French Republic".

So if that is true some of the rhetoric you have used

in the past seems to be, now, something you have abandoned.

So which Marine Le Pen is today, is it the moderate Marine Le Pen

who says that Islam is compatible with the French republic?

Or the Marine Le Pen who talks about Muslims praying in the street

being like the Nazi occupation?

Let me test you...

If I may, Madame Le Pen, may I quote to you the words

of your own niece.

Marion.

Who, of course, is now an MP here in France.

She said, we are not a land of Islam and if French citizens can be

Muslims, it is only on the condition to submit to the habits and ways

of life that the Greek - Roman influence and 16 centuries

of Christianity have shaped in our country.

Do you agree with that?

I understand, I think, I hope, I understand the values

of the Republic.

And one of the three key values of the Republic is liberte.

Where is the liberte in you telling Muslim women that they cannot go

on to the beach covered in a way that they would like to be covered.

Where is the liberte in that?

Women have the right to choose, do they not?

Muslim women, just like Christian women, as a right to choose

what they wear on the beach.

Surely?

When you say the French beaches are those of Brigitte Bardot,

that sounds absurd to many people.

I mean, why can't women decide whether they want to look

like Brigitte Bardot or look like somebody else?

What I find really interesting about your politics right now

is that while you try to reach out with your message to the French

people as a whole, of course in the run-up to the presidential

election, many people in your own party are beginning

to worry that you are abandoning some of the principles of the Front

National.

For example, in your posters you no longer use the name of the party.

You no longer use the symbol of the flame.

And your own father, the founder of the Front National,

John Marie Le Pen, he's been on my programme,

he has worried very publicly that you are, to use his phrase,

committing political suicide by leaving the traditions

of the Front National.

How do you respond to that?

But you have...

Do you not accept you have a problem, as you try to reach out

to more of the - if you can put it this way -

the centre-right ground in French politics, the danger is that some

of those in the mainstream centre-right, like Nicolas Sarkozy,

for example, they try to steal your clothes.

Sarkozy, according to your own father, is now taking some

of your photos by being stronger on security, stronger on his message

about Islam, than you are.

CHUCKLES.

You say you're a woman of great principle.

Where is the principle in taking huge amounts of money from a Russian

bank to finance your political campaigns?

You took, of course, millions of euros from the Czech-Russian

bank, which has since gone bankrupt.

And now your own financial bosses in the party say that you need 8

million euros to fund your presidential election campaign.

Are you going to go to Russia again and try and get Russian money?

The only problem with taking Russian money is that you then have to say

things like, I have an admiration for Vladimir Putin.

You have to say things like, yes, if I'm in power I will recognise

the annexation of Crimea.

You talk like a woman of principle but where is the principle in that?

Before we end, I have to ask you about the political

process in France.

You can in the end, still face what they call

here the glass ceiling.

Your poll ratings are pretty good right now, and it seems that

you stand a very good chance of getting...

The truth is, even if you get into the second round of the presidential

election, nobody in France believes you can win,

because the mainstream parties, the Republicans, the Socialists,

will ensure you are defeated in the second round.

How can you smash this glass ceiling?

Marine Le Pen, we have to end there.

But thank you very much for being being an HARDtalk.

Merci a vous.

Merci a vous.

Merci bien.

Merci.

Hello there.

For many places it has turned into another decidedly

chilly autumn night.