26/11/2015 House of Commons


26/11/2015

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backbenchers have had the opportunity to question him in 103

:00:00.:00:00.

minutes so I hope colleagues feel that has been an adequate

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opposition. Mr Chris Grayling. If I can give the camera crew house the

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business for next week. Monday, topically, we will have a general

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debate on the UK role in the Middle East. Tuesday, we have the remaining

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stages of the immigration Bill followed by a motion to approve a

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statutory instrument relating to Northern Ireland 's followed by a

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debate on a motion relating to the high-speed rail London to West

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Midlands Bill. Wednesday, an opposition day on a subject to be

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announced. Thursday, the second reading of the charities protection

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Bill. Friday, a private members will day. The provisional business for

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the week afterwards... Monday, the remaining stages of the devolution

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Bill. Tuesday, time set aside for consideration of Lords amendments

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followed by a debate on a motion relating to European measures.

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Wednesday, a further opposition day. Thursday, a further day for business

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to be nominated by the Backbench Business Committee. Friday, the

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House not sitting. I should say that the business in Westminster Hall for

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the 7th of December and 3rd of December... On the third, the

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fisheries policy, the seventh will look at the use of nicotine on

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crops. I'm warmly commend them on wet Syria, it is commendable. They

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are weighty matters so it is wrong for the government to bounce the

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House into a decision. Next week's business has been announced but I

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thought I heard the Prime Minister earlier saying he wanted a debate

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and vote as soon as possible, and before he was going to visit the

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Foreign Affairs Committee, and I can only presume that that means next

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week. I hope the Leader of the House will take on board that the House

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needs proper notice when we have debates of that kind and it is

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inappropriate to hide that. 103 people have spoken in this. There

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may be 103 people speaking in this debate so we need proper time said

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people are not just making two minutes beaches on a matter that

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really matters to our constituents. The final thing, I hope that the

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government will table a motion in plenty of time for members to

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consider any amendments they want to table so they do not have to be

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manuscript did on the day. Mr Speaker, just like you, I came to

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work this morning carrying a sword as I am delighted to announce that

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last night, thanks to the efforts of the honourable member for North

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Antrim and for Aberdeen North and for myself, the Commons rested the

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mighty Wilkinson Sword of their Lordships in a charity swimming

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championship for the Northern Ireland charity Hope for You.

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Talking of double-edged swords, I ask the leader whether he could tell

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us the dates of recesses next year. -- Youth. He got on this and said it

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is far more important for the government to get it business

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through rather than going on holiday, so I am going to ask a

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different question today. Instead of telling us when he we will not be

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sitting, can you tell us when we will be sitting? We will work out

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the recess from that! The Chancellor said something yesterday which was

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interesting. The improvements in the nation's finances are down to two

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things. Well, I agree. Smoke and mirrors. That is what it is. I first

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predicted that the government would do a U-turn on working tax credit in

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October and the leader, yet again, went pompous on us and moaned about

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a constitutional crisis stalking the land. Now the Chancellor has

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accepted my advice. Can the leader clarify two things? Firstly, what is

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the status of the tax credits, thresholds that were voted down in

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the house of lords and are hanging around in the air? Will he bring

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them back in a different shape or what? Secondly, according to the

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resolution foundation, low income families on Universal Credit will be

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worse off by ?1300 in 2020, and according to the IFF, in the last 30

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minutes, the Spending Review will leave 2.6 million families ?1600

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worse off next year. -- IFS. It is time the government owned up. Can we

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have a debate about the sale of UK national asset? Since the Chancellor

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came to office, he has sold off the student loans book, the Royal mail,

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the future of nuclear power, and he announced that he is going to sell

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off the land Registry, the Ordnance Survey, the air-traffic control, and

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the green investment bank. I have a little book here which I am going to

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give to the Leader of the House. He can come to my study later. It is a

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copy of the Shakespeare play Richard the second. I am sure you will

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remember the wonderful speech, this royal throne of Kings, the demi-

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paradise, but will they ever remember that the speech ends, is

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now leased out like to tenements or pelting farm? Shakespeare predicted

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it 400 years ago that there are going to sell off all our national

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asset, and there we have it! Can we have a debate on the Chancellor's

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roast on page 76, I am sure you have seen it, -- boast, that the

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government has taken some steps to reduce the cost of politics, but

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that is not true, is it? Actually, the cost and the number of special

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advisers who are purely party political appointees, has driven

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dramatically since 2010. In 2009, there were 74 costing ?5.9 million,

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and in 2014, there were 100 and three, costing ?8.4 million. The

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Prime Minister promised before he became Prime Minister that no

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Minister of his would have more than one special adviser, but the Leader

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of the House has two! The Chief Whip is two. The Chancellor alone has at

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least ten special advisers. We don't know the total because the

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government won't publish a list that in 2014, it was 29 more at a cost of

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?2.5 million more a year and on top of that, the Prime Minister has

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appointed members of the House of Lords faster than any other Prime

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Minister in history. 200, costing ?2.9 million a year. The annual Tory

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party invoice to the taxpayer has gone up by ?5.4 million. Yesterday

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the Chancellor said he is going to cut the money provided to opposition

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parties to all opposition parties by 19%. What goes around comes around

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is, I would remind the Leader of the House. Canada leader confirmed that

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this is not up to Chancellor, it is up to this house. It was done on

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cross-party consultation. Was there any discussion with the opposition

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parties? Was there any discussion with the finance committee of this

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House? Did the Leader of the House know about this proposal? Labour,

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when we were in government, when never afraid of scrutiny so we

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introduced short money in the first place, and we increase it in 1997,

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and that meant that the Tory party received, it claimed, 45 when ?7

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million from the taxpayer between 1997 and 2010. Will the Tory party

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now be taking and 19% cut in the cost of special advisers? If not,

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won't voters be right to conclude that this is a naked attempt to

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hobble the opposition and rigged the system? It is a partisan measure

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being introduced because the government hates scrutiny. Two weeks

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ago, the Leader of the House urged all members to do the online fire

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safety training. I have done it, has he done it yet? Yes!

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LAUGHTER Can I start by thanking the shadow leader for his kind words

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about the Prime Minister. It was a measured and sensible debate, this

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is a serious matter which should cross party divides for all of us to

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consider what is in the interests of our nation. The tone was excellent

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and it was right and proper. I am sure everybody would agree that it

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is right and proper for the Prime Minister to die just the comments

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from the house this morning before deciding what further action to

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take, and to give the foreign effects Select Committee a moment to

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take a look at this. We will come back to this House shortly and the

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Prime Minister will make clear his intentions in the very near future.

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Mr Speaker, I paid tribute to weeks ago to the musical skills of the

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honourable gentleman who speaks for the Scottish Nationalists. He is

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clearly not alone in this place in showing such skills. I would like to

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pay tribute to the members of the Parliamentary choir for their

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polished performance at Cadogan hall last night. Last night, there was

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harmony and melody. Following a request from the shadow leader, I do

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try to mark important anniversaries on a Thursday morning, and I have

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two for him. After yesterday, it will have great resonance for him.

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It is exactly 30 years since Neil Kinnock began his purge of militant

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infiltrators from the Labour Party. By coincidence, it is 80 years ago

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this month that the Chinese Communist Party and its new leader.

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Chairman Mao. The man who became one of the most brutal dictators of

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modern times. After yesterday, I wonder which the shadow leader will

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celebrate the most. You talked of the Wilkinson Sword, and I

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congratulate him for that. I did not see his Twitter feed that I saw him

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carrying a 3 foot long sword into the macro re-this morning. Given his

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record in knifing Tony Blair, does this mark another assassination? He

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asked a question of special advisers. -- House. Firstly, the

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cost of politics is falling. We have cut advertising, support for

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ministerial offices, but he made the ports point about short money. Sure

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money has risen by 50% since 2010. That is after the changes set out

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yesterday and it has simply returned to the level it was set out -- to

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the level that was set out in 2010. He asked about the Autumn Statement

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and used the joke about smoke and mirrors. We heard the joke yesterday

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from the honourable member for Cardiff North. Sorry, Cardiff West!

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What he doesn't say is that you want a two-day debate on the Autumn

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Statement. After yesterday, I am sure they have heard quite enough.

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He asked about the tax credits changes. The statutory instrument is

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not being moved as the Chancellor of the Exchequer set out. We are not

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pursuing those proposals. He asked about working families in 2020. The

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introduction of the national living wage means that for somebody on

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today's minimum wage, by 2020 they will be earning nearly ?5,000 a year

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more than they are today. He raised the question of the sale of assets.

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I would simply say that as a time when we are looking to build a

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nuclear industry in this country, I look back to when the last

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government sold a British nuclear power station firm overseas at a

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time when we were just thinking about building new nuclear power

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stations, so I will take no lessons about the sale of assets from a

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party that takes steps without strategy or thought, and one of the

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reasons we have this challenge is because for 13 years, they did

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nothing about it. On recess dates, the prime concern for this

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Government is to get its business through the House. We will seek

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appropriate recess time when we can but now I am concerned about putting

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through the manifesto on which we were rightly elected last May. Mr

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Speaker, the most egregious unreformed procedures in this House

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relates to private members bills. The conduct of this place and the

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execution of those bills is simply appalling, Mr Speaker. Can I urge

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the leader of the house to join with the procedure committee to try and

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find a way forward? The honourable gentleman for Shipley is now my

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Moriarty if I am Sherlock Holmes. It has ever been referred to as

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Moriarty before! But I take the point that is chair of the

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procedures committee he is better placed than anyone. I am always

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happy to appear in front of his committee and discuss these issues

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with him. Will come out with wise words about how this should be

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handled in future. Can I thank the leader of the house about next

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week's business? I have not got Chairman Mao or Shakespeare to offer

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him. Can we get back to the debate on Syria? We are concerned that

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there should be firm proposals about when it should be brought to the

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House. 103 members spoke in the statement and we have to find

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sufficient time. Proper time needs to be allocated to Members of

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Parliament to bring forward the very serious concerns that they may

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have. Can the leader of the house at least state today that we would have

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a minimum of two days to debate any Syrian action before a vote is

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taken? I know there are talks about smoke and mirrors following

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yesterday's autumn spending review. We very much welcome the grinding

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U-turn that has been committed when it comes to tax credits but we are

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concerned about what is proposed further down the line. IFS have

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already started to raise concerns about what is proposed in terms of

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what will happen when universal credit is put into place and the

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other reforms at the sharp end of housing benefit. We know that the

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role of universal credit has been less than successful. Shambles is

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the word that could be associated with it. Can we have some statement

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or debate about where we are on universal credit and how this will

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impact on the plans for tax credits? It would be useful to have some kind

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of statement from the Government on that. Something very dramatic

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happened in the House of Lords this week. Nothing very dramatic usually

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happens but for some reason it did. What they said was that the Scotland

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Bill should be delayed until the critical fiscal framework is agreed

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to. The last Conservative Secretary of State put it like this, like

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purchasing a car without looking at the engine. If Scotland Bill without

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a sufficient fiscal framework. How is the Government responding to

:17:35.:17:37.

these calls and what efforts is the Government making to get that engine

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into place? Another breaking news story is on immigration figures. Net

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immigration figures have reached a record high of 336,000, according to

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the Office for National Statistics. We question the Government's ability

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to get migration down to the tens of thousands. We are living in a

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interconnected, globalised world, so there was almost an impossibility

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from the outset. The Government is likely to raise its rhetoric when it

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comes to migration and we hope it does not conflict it with response

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pretty on duty when it comes to Syrian refugees. We hope there will

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be no consolation on this, especially when we go down to

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further bombing in Syria, where our obligations will be further

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increased. A statement, especially from the bellicose backbenchers,

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that there will be no consolation between migration figures and the

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treatment of refugees is required. Can I extend to him an invitation to

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come to our gig on Tuesday at the Strangers bar. If he wants to make a

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contribution he would be welcome to that as well. I would be delighted

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to pop into the Strangers bar next Tuesday. We are going off at seven

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o'clock anyway. I don't know what time they are starting but I would

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be delighted to hear him on that night in full flow. Seriously, I

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have set out the debate is quite clearly over the next two weeks. I

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would have to return it out to a supplementary business statement.

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Once people have had the chance to consider the comments on all sides

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today. I cannot give an indication of the timetable but if it takes

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place in the next couple of weeks, I will come back and make a further

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statement to the House. On the issue of tax credits and universal credit,

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may I simply remind him that the move from the national minimum wage

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to the national living wage will for Scots as well deliver by 2020 and

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increasing income of almost ?5,000? That will make a fundamental

:19:58.:20:00.

difference to people on low incomes in this country. It is something we

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should all welcome and I believe it will transform the lives of many

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people on the lowest incomes. On the Scotland Bill, the delay, just

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because somebody proposes something does not mean it will actually

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happen. There was a commitment to deliver it as quickly as possible.

:20:17.:20:21.

I'm delighted that Lord Smith has accepted that the Smith commission

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report is being implemented in full. I await to see what powers the

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Scottish National Party actually uses because until now it has talked

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a lot about powers but has shown little sign of using them. On the

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issue of immigration and Syrian refugees, we have set out very

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clearly our obligations internationally to help Syrian

:20:42.:20:44.

refugees. We are taking 20,000 into this country but crucially we are

:20:45.:20:52.

doing what other nations are not doing, and that is providing support

:20:53.:20:55.

on the ground to the 7 million refugees in camps near Syria, where

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the need is a cute and they have not made their way to Europe. There is a

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very real need to provide support for those people on the ground and

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we are doing more than almost anybody else to look after them.

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Finally, Mr Speaker, I was deeply disappointed to see that he missed

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out on the prize for the leading Scot at Westminster. Had we had a

:21:19.:21:25.

vote, we would have put a tick in his box! I am keen to accommodate

:21:26.:21:31.

interest but we have had a very heavy exchange before this, and

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rightly so, but there are more than 20 honourable members who wish to

:21:37.:21:40.

contribute in the debate on airports. Therefore these exchanges

:21:41.:21:44.

must conclude no later than 2 o'clock. I hope colleagues will

:21:45.:21:49.

tailor their contributions accordingly. Our skyline is

:21:50.:21:59.

dominated by the power station that provide enough electricity for

:22:00.:22:03.

roughly half a million homes. With the announcement last week that

:22:04.:22:08.

coal-fired power stations would be phased out by 2025, can we have a

:22:09.:22:13.

debate in Government time to discuss the conversion of coal-fired power

:22:14.:22:19.

stations to biomass? This is of course a very important area. In

:22:20.:22:26.

order to meet our environmental commitments, we have committed to

:22:27.:22:31.

moving towards renewables. It will be part of Government strategy and

:22:32.:22:35.

local planning strategies to see existing sites reuse for electricity

:22:36.:22:39.

generation where it is possible. I will make sure the energy secretary

:22:40.:22:43.

is aware of her concerns so they can address the next time they are in

:22:44.:22:49.

the House. Dudley Council is losing half its funding, forcing councils

:22:50.:22:53.

to make terrible decisions about front line services like libraries

:22:54.:23:02.

and museums, places I have visited since I was a child. Savings have

:23:03.:23:08.

got to be made. But Dudley is losing ?86 per person and Windsor only ?18

:23:09.:23:13.

per person. Is that fair? Can we have a debate so that we can tell

:23:14.:23:18.

the people of Dudley why that is fair? The overall package that was

:23:19.:23:23.

announced yesterday provides a range of things for local Government.

:23:24.:23:31.

After years of a Labour Government, the support provided to areas in

:23:32.:23:34.

typically Conservative parts of the country was minimal, where is the

:23:35.:23:38.

support provided to Labour areas was very generous. If we take decisions

:23:39.:23:44.

that impact on Labour areas, it is because the grant is because the

:23:45.:23:46.

grants to Conservative areas are very low. On Tuesday, the national

:23:47.:23:55.

confidential inquiry into patient outcome and deaths reported that

:23:56.:24:01.

patients are at risk of death and long-term publications often because

:24:02.:24:04.

of critical delays in identifying and treating conditions. --

:24:05.:24:15.

long-term complications. It causes 40,000 UK deaths annually. Can I ask

:24:16.:24:23.

the chairman of the all-party parliamentary group to consider a

:24:24.:24:29.

Government debate on this so we can discuss the matter with the minister

:24:30.:24:33.

and find out how we can improve recognition and treatment of sepsis

:24:34.:24:35.

and better measure its long-term burden on our health services? Can I

:24:36.:24:41.

pay tribute to my honourable friend for the work she is doing? If

:24:42.:24:45.

condition affects a large number of people and can have a really

:24:46.:24:49.

dramatic affect on them and their families. This is precisely the

:24:50.:24:54.

subject that should be brought to the backbench business committee

:24:55.:24:57.

because it will affect constituents across the House and it is precisely

:24:58.:25:02.

for that at that time is allocated. We are not against cutting the cost

:25:03.:25:18.

of politics. We are doing nothing to cut the allowances of members who do

:25:19.:25:22.

not bother to turn up and contribute to the House. Why has the Government

:25:23.:25:28.

done this? We will have discussions with all the parties affected by the

:25:29.:25:31.

change over the coming days, including with his party. I would

:25:32.:25:37.

say to him, the politics in Northern Ireland are complicated and our

:25:38.:25:41.

prime desire is to make sure that we continue to see Northern Ireland

:25:42.:25:48.

peaceful, developing and prosperous. Could we have a statement on the

:25:49.:25:52.

Syrian refugee relocation programme so we can establish the facts of

:25:53.:25:58.

which local authorities are taking refugees in? Unfortunately local

:25:59.:26:01.

authorities like Derby City Council are playing party politics with

:26:02.:26:05.

people's lives, leading to misinformation on what is actually

:26:06.:26:12.

happening. Letters be clear, we collectively as a nation have a duty

:26:13.:26:18.

towards Syrian refugees. I do not know about the situation in Derby

:26:19.:26:21.

but it would not be excusable for anyone in this country to mix party

:26:22.:26:25.

politics with the humanitarian needs of refugees. Yesterday when the

:26:26.:26:35.

Chancellor was still on his feet, the Government said they would

:26:36.:26:39.

renege yet again on carbon capture and storage, by withdrawing the

:26:40.:26:42.

billion pound funding that they promised in their manifesto just a

:26:43.:26:47.

few weeks ago. This is a disgraceful act of betrayal and sends an

:26:48.:26:53.

appalling signal to people wishing to invest in our energy sector. When

:26:54.:27:00.

will the Secretary of State come to this House and make a statement to

:27:01.:27:06.

explain to my constituents in Peterhead why they have been led at

:27:07.:27:12.

the garden path yet again? We had to make difficult decisions in the

:27:13.:27:15.

spending review. On renewables, we have made huge progress since 2010.

:27:16.:27:20.

In the second quarter of this year, more than 25% of our energy was

:27:21.:27:25.

generated from renewable sources. That is a powerful indicator of the

:27:26.:27:28.

way that we have put money into renewables and the way they are

:27:29.:27:34.

playing a bigger role in society. Can the lead of the House arrange

:27:35.:27:38.

for the Secretary of State for Education to come to the dispatch

:27:39.:27:47.

box and look at the history of education in our country? I want to

:27:48.:27:50.

make sure that every youngster in the Ribble Valley has the

:27:51.:27:56.

opportunity to look at the ideology of great figures, including Chairman

:27:57.:27:59.

Mao, and compare the thoughts in the Little red book, which we now have a

:28:00.:28:04.

copy of, to what actually happened during their rule, which was

:28:05.:28:09.

repression, torture, cultural wasteland and the death of 45

:28:10.:28:17.

million people in a famine. There has been a delay getting into the

:28:18.:28:25.

debate. I understand the point my honourable friend is making. I

:28:26.:28:28.

assume it would be a blue book for him and not a red book. His usual

:28:29.:28:35.

chirpiness disappeared yesterday when the red book appeared. My

:28:36.:28:39.

honourable friend makes a good point. Nobody should treat lightly

:28:40.:28:48.

the works are brutal dictators. I want to start off with an apology to

:28:49.:28:58.

yourself. I would like to ask the leader of the house to make a

:28:59.:29:01.

statement telling us how he will make sure he can answer questions

:29:02.:29:11.

accurately. I asked if the Scottish revenue would increase in real

:29:12.:29:14.

terms. He said it would go up but there has been a real terms cut of

:29:15.:29:16.

5%. The Chancellor of the Exchequer will

:29:17.:29:25.

be back on Tuesday and the honourable gentleman will be able to

:29:26.:29:30.

question the Chancellor and raise the issues with him that he raised

:29:31.:29:36.

with me. I thank you for allowing the Prime Minister to answer the

:29:37.:29:44.

number of questions he did today. Syria is an important issue and we

:29:45.:29:50.

do need to debate it fully, so when the leader comes to this house, with

:29:51.:29:53.

a change in the business programme, can I suggest that we debate Syria

:29:54.:29:59.

on no limit on when the closure comes? If necessary, we can speak

:30:00.:30:05.

through the night and everybody can get in. Firstly, we are all now

:30:06.:30:15.

going to be digesting the Prime Minister's statement, the submission

:30:16.:30:17.

to the Foreign Affairs Committee, the questions raised here today, the

:30:18.:30:23.

concerns raised today, and we have a debate on Monday and I would

:30:24.:30:26.

encourage members to use the debate is an opportunity to raise further

:30:27.:30:31.

concerns they have. I know the Prime Minister will read it carefully and

:30:32.:30:34.

he wants to take note of views on all sides of the House. He wants to

:30:35.:30:42.

take the House with him. Buried in the CSI documents was the

:30:43.:30:45.

announcement that HMRC will contract out that debt collection, fraud and

:30:46.:30:54.

error complaints. This is the same private sector provider who sent

:30:55.:30:59.

threatening letters to many of our constituents and whose many mistakes

:31:00.:31:03.

have caused serious financial hardship. Will the government debate

:31:04.:31:08.

on whether tax credits debt collection has been successful? I

:31:09.:31:17.

will make sure the Treasury and ministers are aware of this and they

:31:18.:31:22.

are backing here next Tuesday. I don't want to see any legitimate

:31:23.:31:28.

claimant accused of doing something wrong. At the same time, people have

:31:29.:31:35.

a duty to watch over affairs and if they are paid too much money, they

:31:36.:31:40.

should tell the authorities. It needs to be got right. My

:31:41.:31:46.

constituent suffered a serious loss of funds from Barclays Bank,

:31:47.:31:52.

possibly through theft, and I don't believe the bank is taking the

:31:53.:31:57.

matter seriously enough. Custodians of customers' funds, Cammy have a

:31:58.:32:03.

debate on this? I can't comment on individual circumstances that where

:32:04.:32:11.

individual customers can be the victims of fraud, I would always

:32:12.:32:14.

expect banks to put their customers first in dealing with an issue like

:32:15.:32:17.

this and ensure they are dealt with properly and easily and not left in

:32:18.:32:21.

a position where they are disadvantaged as a result. Do you

:32:22.:32:31.

share my disappointment that recent irresponsible newspaper headlines,

:32:32.:32:36.

misleading reports, will have done nothing constructive and puts

:32:37.:32:42.

communities at risk of Islamic abuse? Can we talk about the use of

:32:43.:32:51.

Daesh instead of Islamic State? Well, Mr Speaker, let's be clear on

:32:52.:32:58.

this. The current threat that we face in this country has nothing

:32:59.:33:01.

whatsoever to do with the vast, vast, vast majority of Muslims in

:33:02.:33:08.

this country and elsewhere in the world, it is propagated by a

:33:09.:33:11.

minority. That minority must be dealt with with fourth and

:33:12.:33:15.

effectiveness wherever necessary, but we need to send a message to the

:33:16.:33:18.

Muslim community in this country that they are valued and we accept

:33:19.:33:22.

that they have nothing to do with what is going on. Saturday the 5th

:33:23.:33:29.

of December is small-business Saturday, it encourages people to

:33:30.:33:32.

use small retailers and businesses of which the Isle of Wight has

:33:33.:33:44.

many. Could the Leader of the House assist in getting four as a debate

:33:45.:33:47.

on the subject and other initiatives which promote independent local

:33:48.:33:53.

companies? I think small-business Saturday is a worthwhile event.

:33:54.:34:00.

Please urge local businesses in coming days. I might give up pleb to

:34:01.:34:05.

the Epsom business awards which I launched five years ago and the

:34:06.:34:11.

final is the night. We have a debate on small-business Saturday and I

:34:12.:34:18.

hope all members will join in events to support people who were immensely

:34:19.:34:22.

hard and deliver essential services to our society. The National

:34:23.:34:28.

sidereal summit in Rotherham, the Business Secretary promised that the

:34:29.:34:34.

three working groups he set would report back on actions to be taken

:34:35.:34:39.

on steel before Christmas. -- National steel summit. Coming

:34:40.:34:46.

statement on the programme forward? I will make a reminder to the

:34:47.:34:50.

Business Secretary about that commitment. We take the future of

:34:51.:34:56.

the steel industry seriously and the statement yesterday contained

:34:57.:34:57.

provisions around high energy users and energy costs. There is a lot to

:34:58.:35:04.

do and I can assure him that the Business Secretary and members of

:35:05.:35:07.

the team take this issue immensely seriously. Would the Leader of the

:35:08.:35:15.

House kindly explain what opportunities there are to discuss

:35:16.:35:18.

the recognition available to Armed Forces personnel who have served in

:35:19.:35:27.

often highly dangerous counter piracy operations of the Horn of

:35:28.:35:31.

Africa? If the recognition comes in the form of a medal, would the brave

:35:32.:35:36.

men and women be able to wear the medal proudly as is not always the

:35:37.:35:43.

case with all medals? This is an issue that has been raised before.

:35:44.:35:46.

It is baffling that we should be in a position where we have to discuss

:35:47.:35:49.

these issues. If somebody served our nation and is awarded a medal, they

:35:50.:35:54.

should be able to wear it. I wish my honourable friend well in my

:35:55.:35:59.

campaign, she has my support, and I will make sure the Secretary of

:36:00.:36:02.

State is well aware of what is just plain common sense. Can I ask for a

:36:03.:36:08.

statement or debate in government time on the industrial relations in

:36:09.:36:31.

the DVLA? -- DDS a -- DVSA. The current industrial action on

:36:32.:36:34.

contractual changes, is this anyway to treat public sector workers? What

:36:35.:36:41.

you have described is concerning and it will be of concern to the roads

:36:42.:36:47.

Minister. The Minister for the transport department will be in the

:36:48.:36:50.

Commons the week after next and will undoubtably be able to raise the

:36:51.:36:55.

question and I will make sure his concerns are drawn towards this. It

:36:56.:37:00.

is with great sadness that I inform the House that a constituent,

:37:01.:37:06.

97-year-old woman, was the victim of a horrific and cowardly burglary.

:37:07.:37:11.

Can we secure debate on public authorities protecting vulnerable

:37:12.:37:15.

people so I can get on the record that Cardiff Council should not have

:37:16.:37:19.

the orange diamonds on the bins for waste services, highlighting where

:37:20.:37:24.

vulnerable victims live in our city West remarked anything like this is

:37:25.:37:30.

shocking and all of us on this side of the House will express dismay

:37:31.:37:33.

that anybody could commit much an appalling crime against an elderly

:37:34.:37:37.

lady, it defies logic and belief. You make an important point. I will

:37:38.:37:42.

make sure that the issue is drawn to the attention of ministers in the

:37:43.:37:50.

local government departments. Thank you. The Leader of the House will

:37:51.:37:57.

recall that on the 22nd of October I ask if there would be a report from

:37:58.:38:01.

the air accident investigation Branch into the crash in Glasgow,

:38:02.:38:07.

and the report made seven recommendations. May I remind the

:38:08.:38:14.

House that the anniversary of the crash is this Sunday? It is clearly

:38:15.:38:20.

a very sad anniversary for all of those who lost their lives and were

:38:21.:38:25.

injured, and the families of those affected we send our heartfelt

:38:26.:38:27.

sympathies to them what would be a difficult weekend. Report has been

:38:28.:38:32.

published but there are questions unanswered about the circumstances

:38:33.:38:37.

that led to the crash. I will make sure that the aviation Minister is

:38:38.:38:40.

aware of the comments made and they will be in the Commons a week on

:38:41.:38:50.

Thursday. On Sunday a foundation in Bedford is holding a drive for

:38:51.:38:55.

people of Asian origin to join the bone marrow register. The likelihood

:38:56.:39:03.

of a match balls from 60% to 20% for people of African origin. -- falls.

:39:04.:39:12.

Can we have a statement on how we may improve these ratios? You can

:39:13.:39:21.

send our good wishes to the macro for how important their workers. --

:39:22.:39:25.

you can send good wishes from all sides of the House, their work is

:39:26.:39:28.

tremendously important. When people in this country express any concern

:39:29.:39:34.

about the cost nature of this country, one of the replies I give

:39:35.:39:37.

them is that you find one of the strongest elements of unity in this

:39:38.:39:42.

country, in the migrant communities, people who do a really strong and

:39:43.:39:45.

important job for our society and we should pay tribute to them for the

:39:46.:39:51.

work they do. In the Autumn Statement, the Shadow Chancellor

:39:52.:39:55.

made comments on defence that illustrated a lack of understanding.

:39:56.:40:04.

I wonder if we could have a debate on the SDSR? I think we had two

:40:05.:40:11.

hours from the prime and is on Monday about the defence strategy

:40:12.:40:13.

and it is clear what the strategy is. We are investing in defence

:40:14.:40:20.

equipment. -- from the Prime Minister. We are going to have

:40:21.:40:24.

exciting new capabilities. We take responsibility very clearly, it is

:40:25.:40:28.

to defend the nation but it is sad that the SNP with its on Trident,

:40:29.:40:32.

appears to want to remove one of the most important legs from our

:40:33.:40:39.

defences. The general debate on the final report of the airports

:40:40.:40:45.

commission. To move the notion, I called Doctor Tania Mathias. I beg

:40:46.:40:53.

to move the motion standing in my name and the name of my colleagues.

:40:54.:41:06.

I would also like to thank the Backbench Business Committee for

:41:07.:41:10.

allocating time for this debate and thank the members who supported that

:41:11.:41:14.

application and members who are also present here today. I do believe

:41:15.:41:19.

this is an important debate that requires scrutiny before the

:41:20.:41:22.

government make it decision. I would like to pay particular tribute to my

:41:23.:41:28.

colleagues in neighbouring constituencies, the Right Honourable

:41:29.:41:33.

friend the Member for Richmond Park. He is an assiduous

:41:34.:41:40.

campaigner. This report came out in July after two years. ?20 million.

:41:41.:41:50.

In July, many UK families were preparing to go on holiday, perhaps

:41:51.:42:05.

using their local UK airport. I wanted a report about our UK

:42:06.:42:11.

aviation needs but like many people I was disappointed. The report is

:42:12.:42:18.

filled with ifs and buts and is shrouded in fog. We have found fault

:42:19.:42:31.

with analysis. Many councils, Wandsworth Council, Windsor,

:42:32.:42:33.

Maidenhead, they have found fault with the data. Too much fog in this

:42:34.:42:41.

report and the conclusion for expansion at Heathrow will not serve

:42:42.:42:48.

UK's aviation needs. To start with, looking at connectivity, the interim

:42:49.:42:54.

report said a third runway at Heathrow would be at maximum

:42:55.:42:58.

capacity by 2050. The final report advises against a fourth runway. How

:42:59.:43:06.

can this be a long-term option for UK's aviation needs. If we look at

:43:07.:43:14.

domestic destinations, the report shows a decrease from seven to four,

:43:15.:43:18.

is bad luck in Scotland, bad luck for Ireland, and not good news for

:43:19.:43:24.

the Northern Powerhouse. Again, not a good option for the UK long-term

:43:25.:43:29.

aviation needs. Looking at the long haul destinations, the report

:43:30.:43:38.

implies there may 12 extra long haul destinations, but some analysts say

:43:39.:43:44.

that if you compared the expanded runways in Heathrow with two

:43:45.:43:50.

runways, the actual increase in long haul destinations is but one. If we

:43:51.:43:57.

then look at, over a quarter of a million increase in air movements on

:43:58.:44:02.

flights to and from Heathrow, if we look at that, the slot of these M

:44:03.:44:06.

movements, in this report, are going to be in the morning and at peak

:44:07.:44:12.

evening periods. -- M movements. That is when it will affect

:44:13.:44:18.

residents the most. -- sir. If we then come onto the cost. Again, we

:44:19.:44:27.

are shrouded in fog. The independence economic review said,

:44:28.:44:30.

and I quote, to counsel caution. Other analysts talk of double

:44:31.:44:36.

accounting. The report talks of aeronautical charges but the

:44:37.:44:43.

airlines say Heathrow, at present, charges too much in landing fees and

:44:44.:44:45.

they would not pay extra charges. There is also a report of extra cost

:44:46.:44:56.

for the surface access. The environmental audit committee could

:44:57.:44:59.

not work out when they were deliberating with the Chief

:45:00.:45:05.

Executive exactly how many billions this will require and whether the

:45:06.:45:09.

taxpayer pays or whether Heathrow would pay. Is it 20 billion or 5

:45:10.:45:15.

billion? There is talk of a congestion charge in the report.

:45:16.:45:24.

This is not costed out. There are schemes for M25 access, again not

:45:25.:45:29.

costed out. When we look at the effect on residents and we look at

:45:30.:45:33.

the report on noise, it says the noise will be divest it, dispersed.

:45:34.:45:42.

To me with an expanded Heathrow that just means more people are affected.

:45:43.:45:48.

The report does say the noise impact will be at current levels. And yet

:45:49.:45:52.

current levels for my constituency are intolerable. As has been

:45:53.:45:57.

demonstrated by Teddington action group. TfL says 1 million people may

:45:58.:46:08.

be affected by an expanded Heathrow. Heathrow is already the worst

:46:09.:46:13.

airport in Europe for noise pollution. With a third runway,

:46:14.:46:19.

Heathrow would be worse than Charles de Gaulle. It would be worse than

:46:20.:46:24.

Amsterdam. It would be worse than Frankfurt and Munich and Madrid. But

:46:25.:46:29.

beyond this, a third runway at Heathrow means Heathrow would be

:46:30.:46:34.

worse than Charles de Gaulle, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich and

:46:35.:46:40.

Madrid combine. This is not the way forward for the UK's aviation needs.

:46:41.:46:45.

When the report talks of a night flight ban, which incidentally the

:46:46.:46:50.

chief executive refuses to accept, and this isn't a total night flight

:46:51.:46:54.

ban in the report, it is a quiet night night flight ban, it does not

:46:55.:47:03.

conform to WHO standards, but even so, if you can have a quasi-night

:47:04.:47:10.

flight ban for three runways, why can't my constituents have a night

:47:11.:47:14.

flight ban tonight with two runways? There are already 13 flights between

:47:15.:47:22.

4:30am and 6am, intolerable. The report does talk about an authority

:47:23.:47:27.

to liaise with the community. The report does point out there is no

:47:28.:47:31.

Airport and the community. So why Airport and the community. So why

:47:32.:47:36.

would a third runway increase the trust? The report talks of a noise

:47:37.:47:44.

levy. Will that be the passengers? The airlines? For my residents, they

:47:45.:47:52.

are not interested in a noise levy. They are interested in a good

:47:53.:47:58.

night's sleep. The report talks about air quality and here there is

:47:59.:48:03.

less fog, because the report does say expansion at Heathrow is

:48:04.:48:09.

contingent on performance in air quality. But Heathrow cannot manage

:48:10.:48:15.

air quality with two runways, so how will it manage with three? And why

:48:16.:48:21.

in the report is nitrous dioxide levelling compared with Heathrow to

:48:22.:48:29.

the worst road in London? Why does it not compare it to the EU legal

:48:30.:48:40.

levels? I am coming. The report does not include the hypothesis that

:48:41.:48:44.

actually going forwards move may not want a hub airport. The report does

:48:45.:48:53.

not consider that actually regional airports may want the competition

:48:54.:48:56.

that an expanded Heathrow would remove. If the report is looking for

:48:57.:49:05.

a hub airport, then the Gatwick Airport option shows the same

:49:06.:49:08.

economic benefits and less environmental impact. The report

:49:09.:49:16.

does not, as we all know, consider a hub airport not in an urban area and

:49:17.:49:24.

perhaps in an estuary. I would want the Government before it makes a

:49:25.:49:29.

decision to consider that for Heathrow, with a night ban, that it

:49:30.:49:34.

will not accept, with a ban that the report calls for further expansion,

:49:35.:49:39.

with the problem of environmental impact it cannot address with two

:49:40.:49:44.

runways, Heathrow cannot be the hub it aspires to be. The Prime Minister

:49:45.:49:51.

in 2009, when he was Leader of the Opposition, said no ifs, no buts, no

:49:52.:50:02.

third runway. This is 342 pages of ifs and buts. It is not a solution

:50:03.:50:12.

for the UK's future aviation needs and before the Government makes its

:50:13.:50:16.

decision, I would urge it to remember the promise of the Prime

:50:17.:50:27.

Minister. The question is that this House should consider the final

:50:28.:50:30.

report of the airport commission. We now come to Sadiq Khan. Thank you,

:50:31.:50:39.

Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to speak. I congratulate the

:50:40.:50:48.

honourable member for Twickenham. Thank you for securing the debate

:50:49.:50:53.

today. The first question we need to ask ourselves is whether we think

:50:54.:50:57.

there is a need for increased flight capacity in this part of the

:50:58.:51:01.

country. We know London has been the global economic powerhouse for

:51:02.:51:06.

centuries. Built on its openness to people, ideas and trade. My view is

:51:07.:51:11.

there is a need for increased flight capacity in this part of the

:51:12.:51:15.

country. The Davis commission then went on to look at the way of

:51:16.:51:20.

addressing the need for increased flight capacity and they concluded

:51:21.:51:25.

there should be a new runway at Heathrow. I disagree with the

:51:26.:51:30.

conclusion reached by them. I think it is possible to increase the need

:51:31.:51:38.

for flight capacity without the additional problems of noise

:51:39.:51:41.

pollution and have been taught about and the problems of air-quality that

:51:42.:51:45.

have been talked about, and to remind ourselves of the challenges

:51:46.:51:49.

we face in London. Last year alone almost 10,000 Londoners died as a

:51:50.:51:56.

direct result of air-quality. There are children whose lungs are

:51:57.:51:59.

underdeveloped in parts of London because of air pollution. A couple

:52:00.:52:03.

of months ago, the UK Supreme Court held that there was in breach of the

:52:04.:52:09.

EU and UK air pollution. A couple of months ago, the UK Supreme Court

:52:10.:52:11.

held that there was in breach of EU and UK air-quality directives.

:52:12.:52:13.

Air-quality in London is a killer. It makes you sick and it is illegal.

:52:14.:52:16.

In those circumstances, I don't know how a third runway can meet the

:52:17.:52:25.

Supreme Court's judgment. Without building a new runway, even now I

:52:26.:52:28.

don't see how Heathrow is addressing that problem. And the problems of

:52:29.:52:35.

surface transport going between the two runways as well, let alone with

:52:36.:52:43.

a third. I will give way. I am grateful that the former transport

:52:44.:52:48.

minister has given way. When was it that he changed his mind on

:52:49.:52:54.

Heathrow, given that he was a transport minister under a Labour

:52:55.:52:57.

administration that opted for a third runway at Heathrow and he

:52:58.:53:02.

fought the 2010 general election on a pledge that a Labour Government

:53:03.:53:06.

would build a third runway at Heathrow? Can I thank the right

:53:07.:53:12.

honourable gentleman that intervention? He will know that in

:53:13.:53:18.

2010 when we lost that election, the then Government had a report from

:53:19.:53:22.

Davis which came up with three recommendations and I have listened

:53:23.:53:26.

to that and I have read the Supreme Court judgment. I have met the

:53:27.:53:29.

teachers that cannot teach during the daytime because of the noise in

:53:30.:53:33.

the classrooms that my honourable friend has been talking about. I

:53:34.:53:37.

have met those that have taken the case to the Supreme Court. I have

:53:38.:53:41.

met some of the children struggling and suffering from ill health. The

:53:42.:53:45.

challenge is how we address the need for increased flight capacity, a

:53:46.:53:50.

case that I still accept now in this part of the country. Does he agree

:53:51.:53:57.

that the need for increased flight capacity could be met in large part

:53:58.:54:01.

by greater use of regional airports, like the brilliant airport in

:54:02.:54:05.

Birmingham which contributes ?1 billion to the UK economy, within a

:54:06.:54:11.

two hour drive of 35 million people? And even better when we create HS2.

:54:12.:54:20.

He makes a great case for supporting and investing in regional airports.

:54:21.:54:24.

Birmingham is our second city and we should be supporting Birmingham. My

:54:25.:54:28.

worry is that if the recommendations are accepted, the report will not

:54:29.:54:33.

allow that to happen. There is also a way of addressing the flight

:54:34.:54:39.

problem in this country at Gatwick. A new runway would address the

:54:40.:54:44.

flight capacity issue and you would get the jobs that this part of the

:54:45.:54:48.

country is always in need of. You get the growth, but more

:54:49.:54:52.

importantly, you get more competition for Heathrow Airport. We

:54:53.:54:57.

want a better Heathrow Airport, not a bigger one. I will give way that

:54:58.:55:01.

it is the last time because I need to make progress. I am a central

:55:02.:55:11.

London MP as he is and a third runway would definitely affect my

:55:12.:55:15.

constituents in relation to the issues that he raises about air

:55:16.:55:18.

quality and I very much agree with them. But why does he think the

:55:19.:55:22.

Davis commission was so categorical in its conclusion that it did not

:55:23.:55:26.

give a view to the idea that there should be a third runway at Gatwick?

:55:27.:55:32.

I personally would have preferred a Gatwick suggestion but that is not

:55:33.:55:37.

what the Davis commission has put into place. He will be aware that

:55:38.:55:41.

Davis did not roll out a new runway at Gatwick. An option which he did

:55:42.:55:49.

with the fantasy estuary island airport. He did not roll out a third

:55:50.:55:53.

runway at the Gaelic airport and what is important... I will give way

:55:54.:56:06.

but then I to make progress. Would he agree that in the report, the

:56:07.:56:11.

actual data that they have used for Gatwick is now known to be

:56:12.:56:15.

inaccurate? That is the point I was going to make so am grateful for

:56:16.:56:21.

that intervention. In relation to connectivity at Gatwick versus

:56:22.:56:27.

Heathrow, the figures are very dependent on data. Economic

:56:28.:56:33.

benefits, 10.9 million at Gatwick at 11.8 at Heathrow. The cost of

:56:34.:56:37.

expansion at Gatwick are cheaper at 7.8 versus ?15.6 billion. Public

:56:38.:56:43.

subsidy requires far less than Heathrow Airport. Deliverability, no

:56:44.:56:49.

need to build a tunnel under the M25 to destroy villages and relocate

:56:50.:56:59.

waste plants. Noise, an important issue that concerns not simply heard

:57:00.:57:02.

that my honourable friends in the neighbouring seats as well. -- not

:57:03.:57:07.

simply heard that my honourable friends. Gatwick output is not

:57:08.:57:22.

breaching any air-quality Lovitz and it never has but Heathrow is

:57:23.:57:26.

currently breaching air-quality limits, both UK and EU limits. It is

:57:27.:57:34.

difficult to see how the UK can meet the Supreme Court judgment with a

:57:35.:57:39.

new runway at Heathrow Airport. This is an important debate about an

:57:40.:57:42.

important issue. I am passionately in favour of increased their

:57:43.:57:46.

capacity in this part of the country because it would lead to more jobs

:57:47.:57:50.

and growth. Anybody who wants there to be more jobs in London and once

:57:51.:57:55.

there to be growth in London and one said to be better competition with

:57:56.:58:01.

Heathrow Airport cannot be against increased capacity in this part of

:58:02.:58:05.

the country. Anyone who rules out a new runway at Heathrow and Gatwick

:58:06.:58:09.

is playing hard and loose with jobs in London. I want to challenge the

:58:10.:58:17.

notion that everything has to be in London and the South East. Why does

:58:18.:58:21.

increase capacity have to be at Gatwick or Heathrow? Why not make

:58:22.:58:25.

greater use of regional airports? Why do the extra jobs need to be in

:58:26.:58:29.

London and the South East where you cannot afford to buy a House? Let's

:58:30.:58:33.

have proper devolution to the rest of the country. Support regional

:58:34.:58:38.

countries and regional airports. Here I disagree with my honourable

:58:39.:58:44.

friend. If London and the South East does well, it is not at the expense

:58:45.:58:47.

of Birmingham. I think Birmingham is better than that. I think London and

:58:48.:58:53.

the South East can do well. Being against airport expansion in the

:58:54.:58:59.

South East period is a position that is damaging to jobs and businesses

:59:00.:59:05.

and Mrs a huge opportunity. I support the honourable friends who

:59:06.:59:09.

are against a runway at Heathrow and I support those in favour of a

:59:10.:59:10.

runway at Gatwick. The Congratulations on securing the

:59:11.:59:22.

debate and on the manner on the presenter Jill debate but I

:59:23.:59:25.

profoundly disagree with it. May I apologise that I cannot be here at

:59:26.:59:30.

5pm, I have an unavoidable commitments but I shall stay and

:59:31.:59:36.

listen to as much of the debate as I can. My position is clear, I'm an

:59:37.:59:40.

aviator and believe that it is impossible to have too many runways!

:59:41.:59:49.

LAUGHTER Therefore, I am fully supportive of a third runway at

:59:50.:59:53.

Heathrow but I would prefer the proposal of a Heathrow hub,

:59:54.:00:03.

sequential runways, to the north of 2079, I would prefer that because it

:00:04.:00:08.

would be less intrusive. I am strongly supportive of a second

:00:09.:00:13.

runway at Gatwick and it was nonsense in 1979 when it was ruled

:00:14.:00:16.

out for 40 years that there should be another runway at Gatwick. We

:00:17.:00:21.

should not constrain future generations in the way they were

:00:22.:00:24.

constrained to stop Heathrow is important and that is what this

:00:25.:00:30.

commission has found it yet paragraph two, it says Heathrow's

:00:31.:00:37.

network overshadows any other UK airport with 84% of scheduled long

:00:38.:00:43.

haul flights not being available anywhere else in the London airport

:00:44.:00:48.

system. There you have it in one sentence. The key importance of

:00:49.:00:52.

Heathrow and why we should be backing it. 78% is the number of

:00:53.:01:00.

long haul flights out of Heathrow, as well as 25% of our exports. It is

:01:01.:01:09.

hugely important. Paragraph three, the committee reports or so the

:01:10.:01:15.

negative impact that a decision not to proceed with the third runway

:01:16.:01:24.

would have on the local economy and wider economy, which they estimate

:01:25.:01:28.

over 60 years, long time, I accept, to be between 21 billion, and

:01:29.:01:40.

30-45,000,000,000. One does not need to query those figures but to

:01:41.:01:43.

recognise that they are substantial figures and reflect the importance

:01:44.:01:49.

of Heathrow. I give way. Would he agree that Heathrow is absolutely

:01:50.:01:55.

vital to areas such as mine, Amersham, Buckinghamshire, where we

:01:56.:02:00.

have over 700 companies headquartered in the region because

:02:01.:02:04.

of the proximity to Heathrow, and my constituents, lanky, would rather

:02:05.:02:08.

see a Heathrow expansion, which would benefit them economically,

:02:09.:02:16.

rather than the benefits building of HS2, which does nothing! I have to

:02:17.:02:24.

disappoint you and say I am also in favour of HS2. I will explain why in

:02:25.:02:33.

a moment. As he took my job in the Ministry of Defence, I will give way

:02:34.:02:37.

to him. I am grateful. On the subject of who benefits, as he

:02:38.:02:46.

studied the awful maps on pages 163 and 164 which shows the economic

:02:47.:02:52.

benefit, a choice between Heathrow and Gatwick, it is a no-brainer, it

:02:53.:02:57.

is Heathrow. The West Midlands, Wales and the West country will

:02:58.:03:02.

benefit from Heathrow and the South East will predominantly in a

:03:03.:03:07.

Gatwick. Since he is a West Country men, I know he will double his

:03:08.:03:15.

support for his choice, and no-brainer. You make a good point.

:03:16.:03:20.

There is no doubt, the location of Heathrow was designed to be in the

:03:21.:03:28.

most propitious place to maximise the value of placing an airport near

:03:29.:03:36.

to London. As one who flew out of Heathrow within 12 months of it

:03:37.:03:39.

having been opened, I have used Heathrow all my life and there is no

:03:40.:03:44.

doubt that that airport was ground-breaking at the time it was

:03:45.:03:48.

created. It was the first airport in the world to have two parallel

:03:49.:03:54.

runways, six parallel runways, but now down to two because aircraft

:03:55.:04:03.

cannot cope with the crosswinds. It was a serious innovation and it is

:04:04.:04:06.

now lagging behind, and the commission has said that failure to

:04:07.:04:13.

address the problem will have a negative impact on the wider economy

:04:14.:04:17.

through creating barriers to trade, investment, tourism, and adversely

:04:18.:04:24.

affecting employment, is the Right Honourable member for tooting said.

:04:25.:04:27.

So there is an economic case that is overwhelming. My honourable friend

:04:28.:04:37.

for Twickenham, clearly postage -- clearly her constituents are

:04:38.:04:42.

aggrieved. I was a counsellor in Chiswick, and I can say to her that

:04:43.:04:56.

I am about 3-400 yards north of the extended runway, and so I see the

:04:57.:05:04.

aeroplanes on a daily basis, and if you choose to live in Twickenham,

:05:05.:05:07.

you have to take into account the airport which was there a long time

:05:08.:05:12.

before you chose to go and live in Twickenham, and the same applies in

:05:13.:05:20.

Richmond. A great man though my honourable friend for Richmond Park

:05:21.:05:28.

is, I look forward to seeing the next Mayor of London! I find it is

:05:29.:05:36.

imperative that we recognise that of all the boroughs that have been

:05:37.:05:41.

consulted, the only borough where the majority of those responding are

:05:42.:05:45.

against Heathrow were in his own borough. Everywhere else they found

:05:46.:05:51.

in favour, a majority found in favour of continuing Heathrow's

:05:52.:05:57.

importance to the community, and therefore, the third runway. So, I

:05:58.:06:03.

believe that local opinion is important. Aerospace, aviation is

:06:04.:06:12.

becoming much more... Of course I will give way. The poll is the only

:06:13.:06:21.

poll that reveals most people are in favour of Heathrow expansion but you

:06:22.:06:25.

will not be surprised to hear that it was conducted by Heathrow! It

:06:26.:06:31.

must be very authoritative! There is an imposition but as I say, those

:06:32.:06:37.

who live there choose to live there, and for many of them, including many

:06:38.:06:45.

of us in The Chamber, the proximity... Eye went Kuwait but I

:06:46.:06:51.

know you represent me in Chiswick. -- I won't give way. She is not as

:06:52.:06:58.

good as her predecessor! So I cannot give way! People knew what to expect

:06:59.:07:05.

and those of us in this House have the benefit of being close to

:07:06.:07:08.

Heathrow as I found the other day when I left my wallet behind when I

:07:09.:07:14.

left for Heathrow so I went back and still got my plane to Edinburgh! I

:07:15.:07:23.

represent Farmborough which has the most prestigious airport, run by

:07:24.:07:36.

Tag, and provides for the business committee and takes a lot of load of

:07:37.:07:39.

Heathrow and Gatwick, and they will continue to do that, divided they

:07:40.:07:44.

are not impaired by the Ministry of Defence. To conclude, we are the

:07:45.:07:51.

beneficiaries of the Victorians' vision who built great schemes of

:07:52.:07:55.

which we are still beneficiaries of, this building being one of them.

:07:56.:07:59.

Since then, we have been subjected to a lack of vision and the

:08:00.:08:07.

paralysis. I saw a map produced in 1935 for an orbital road around

:08:08.:08:13.

London. 1935, but it took 50 years. We cannot go on like this. The

:08:14.:08:19.

commission has given us a conference of analysis and an answer, we need

:08:20.:08:28.

to get on with it now. -- a comprehensive analysis. Thank you to

:08:29.:08:34.

my honourable friend for Aldershot and my constituents but I disagree

:08:35.:08:37.

with you profoundly. No ifs, no buts, no third runway at Heathrow.

:08:38.:08:45.

Order! Don't disagree with the chair, but you cannot disagree with

:08:46.:08:56.

that share -- chair. My sincere apologies, I am still getting used

:08:57.:09:00.

to the conventions of this place. No ifs, no buts, no third runway at

:09:01.:09:06.

Heathrow, what happens to be Prime Minister's decisive statements made

:09:07.:09:09.

prior to the 2010 election? Six years later, on the eve of

:09:10.:09:13.

announcements, that could mean that the Prime Minister gives the third

:09:14.:09:17.

runway the green light, a decision that would be devastating to my

:09:18.:09:28.

constituency, have irreversible consequences. The Heathrow option is

:09:29.:09:35.

the only one of the three deliverable options in the report

:09:36.:09:38.

that is recommended, and it is recommended through flawed economic

:09:39.:09:43.

assessment of their own figures. Before I go further, I would like to

:09:44.:09:46.

thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing this debate

:09:47.:09:59.

and four also helping me. -- for. Heathrow should be better, not

:10:00.:10:02.

bigger. I recognised the local and national benefit for the economy

:10:03.:10:08.

now. I propose expansion there because I want to see no increase in

:10:09.:10:14.

noise and pollution that the airport sees already. I want to work with

:10:15.:10:20.

the airport to reduce those impacts. Heathrow airports Limited may be

:10:21.:10:26.

winning on the amount spent on PR, but this Parliament has a duty to

:10:27.:10:30.

assess what is the optimum solution and not be swayed by Mark Reading

:10:31.:10:37.

rhetoric. -- marking rhetoric. How long can we assess this? The debate

:10:38.:10:41.

has been running for 20 years. How long do we debate this in a

:10:42.:10:50.

theological way? There will be a conclusion if the Prime Minister

:10:51.:10:57.

considers the less costly Gatwick. Those who are impacted by runway

:10:58.:11:01.

three do not know what the impact will be. British airway is no longer

:11:02.:11:10.

supports Heathrow Airport's runway three. The chief executive of

:11:11.:11:17.

British airways has expressed serious concerns of how a third

:11:18.:11:21.

runway will be funded. The input structure is not fit for purpose,

:11:22.:11:26.

the price tag is excessive and cannot be justified on any basis. We

:11:27.:11:29.

did not ask for it and we're not paying for it. Businesses have said

:11:30.:11:34.

time and time again that a quick decision is needed. Businesses want

:11:35.:11:40.

to get to and from London and two markets. Heathrow Airport is not

:11:41.:11:48.

often top of the agenda. -- to. Businesses also want to get to other

:11:49.:11:52.

parts of UK, not just London. Why do people in the South East not

:11:53.:11:56.

understand that Gatwick is much more difficult to get to ban a brilliant

:11:57.:12:03.

regional airport like Birmingham! To our drive for 35 million people in

:12:04.:12:14.

the UK. Birmingham, with HS2, can become Heathrow's third runway! I

:12:15.:12:20.

thank my honourable friend, and there are other solutions. I am

:12:21.:12:26.

concentrating on the subject of the debate which is the airports

:12:27.:12:29.

commission which did recommend one of the three options is being

:12:30.:12:32.

Gatwick for additional runway in London and the South East. -- an

:12:33.:12:38.

additional runway. For residents, there will be 40% more flights

:12:39.:12:44.

overhead, 50% of London will be in a high noise area, more air pollution,

:12:45.:12:49.

less respite for those areas who currently benefit from respite, more

:12:50.:12:53.

traffic congestion, little chance of getting or keeping a night flight,

:12:54.:12:57.

more pressure for further expansion such as the possibility of a fourth

:12:58.:13:03.

runway. Announcing a third runway will start a long and drawn-out

:13:04.:13:07.

process. Legal challenges a real possibility. This will not be a

:13:08.:13:13.

quick process. I would like to cover what Heathrow means to my

:13:14.:13:17.

constituents with two runways. My constituency lies between Heathrow

:13:18.:13:22.

and London, beneath the Landing parts or planes approaching over

:13:23.:13:28.

landing. Airport has been with us for 70 years and provides jobs and

:13:29.:13:34.

stimulus for a wide area. It also brings noise, traffic, congestion

:13:35.:13:37.

and pollution. I have never advocated that it be closed or

:13:38.:13:41.

reduced incapacity and I don't like being accused of being so. A real

:13:42.:13:48.

threat to Heathrow's future would be the Mayor of London's forma proposal

:13:49.:13:53.

for a Thames estuary airport. When the airport is operating on a

:13:54.:13:59.

westerly operation, 70% of the time, planes approach directly overhead

:14:00.:14:05.

every 60 to 90 seconds, they are locked into a final approach so

:14:06.:14:13.

there is no variation for those who work or live beneath the plane.

:14:14.:14:17.

After constituents live beneath this flight path and the rest will be if

:14:18.:14:23.

a third runway goes ahead. The noise starts for 15 AM with an average of

:14:24.:14:28.

16 flights before 6am. Then it is continuous for an hour and then from

:14:29.:14:33.

7am to 3pm, those under the approach of runway get continuous noise

:14:34.:14:37.

before the planes switches to the other runway, before the airport

:14:38.:14:44.

closes at 11:30pm. It is not just my constituents. There are 700,000 more

:14:45.:14:55.

people in London and this out these -- and South East are affected every

:14:56.:15:01.

day. More are tips by aircraft noise than at any other airport. -- more

:15:02.:15:08.

are affected. A third runway will mean a 40% increase in flights, and

:15:09.:15:12.

a third runway will mean the rest of the area will be included in a high

:15:13.:15:20.

noise area. So when we share the joy of continuous overflying for ten

:15:21.:15:25.

hours a day. Air quality is in breach of EU limits and will be

:15:26.:15:30.

worse, as will traffic congestion. Pressure on housing, pressure on

:15:31.:15:38.

jobs and public services. For some, a third runway will mean the loss of

:15:39.:15:46.

their homes. Yesterday I met a woman who has lived here for 40 years. 90

:15:47.:15:50.

minutes after the Davis commission was published, she and her husband

:15:51.:15:55.

received a hand-delivered letter telling them about the arrangements

:15:56.:15:59.

to be made for buying them home by pro-Assad would not buy a flat in

:16:00.:16:10.

West London. Her husband then fell ill and passed away. The member for

:16:11.:16:13.

Hayes and Harlington is unable to speak in this debate but she asked

:16:14.:16:20.

me to make it clear that 4000 residents will have to leave their

:16:21.:16:24.

homes if Heathrow expands. She said we cannot replace a community. The

:16:25.:16:31.

main reasons to oppose expansion are noise, air quality, the business

:16:32.:16:35.

case that does not stack up, floors and economic arguments in the Davis

:16:36.:16:44.

commission case. Heathrow runway three is the most costly, most

:16:45.:16:52.

complex of the three schemes and carries the highest risk. It is

:16:53.:16:56.

predicated on condition that the airport operator is not prepared to

:16:57.:17:03.

concede. I am also grateful for the opportunity to have this debate. It

:17:04.:17:08.

is the first opportunity to discuss Davis, although it is already

:17:09.:17:12.

showing that it gives us an early opportunity of how colleagues are

:17:13.:17:15.

going to be disobliging to one another in the course of the

:17:16.:17:18.

argument is that they deploy. My interest goes back a long way, as

:17:19.:17:22.

the official report will bear witness. I often think that when I

:17:23.:17:27.

die, the word Stansted will be engraved on my heart. I must declare

:17:28.:17:31.

that interest but it was an interest formed when I was the honourable

:17:32.:17:35.

member for Middleton and Prestwich in Greater Manchester, and it was at

:17:36.:17:40.

the time of another report into airport policy. I came to the

:17:41.:17:46.

conclusion from that that no inland side should be chosen for London's

:17:47.:17:50.

third airport. It did not even recommend Stansted but I saw all of

:17:51.:17:53.

the other side and none of them was correct as far as I was concerned.

:17:54.:18:01.

My stance was reinforced by BAA, the statutory authority at the time,

:18:02.:18:04.

because there was already a second airport in the place of Gatwick, and

:18:05.:18:11.

they concluded the infamous pact with West Sussex County Council not

:18:12.:18:15.

to have a second runway within 40 years. To my mind, that was the

:18:16.:18:21.

equivalent in aviation of the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact. BAA also

:18:22.:18:28.

denied that anything could be done about the works that sit to the West

:18:29.:18:33.

of Heathrow. I was told that I was a child, I didn't understand, it was

:18:34.:18:38.

too costly and so on. We now know that is where terminal five stands.

:18:39.:18:42.

Davis comes out in favour of a hub airport and I am prepared on balance

:18:43.:18:50.

to accept that is a current need. It backs Heathrow in support of that

:18:51.:18:55.

concept, but then it stops short of its own logic by ruling out a

:18:56.:18:59.

fourth. Most of the airlines would say that you cannot have a hub

:19:00.:19:04.

airport that can be limited to three runways. Look at what the

:19:05.:19:09.

competition is doing. All of the factors which have persuaded Davis

:19:10.:19:13.

to recommend a third are going to recur in time. Whether it is

:19:14.:19:17.

connectivity from our provincial airports or the need for more long

:19:18.:19:26.

haul routes to be established. Using this tactic of ruling out a fourth

:19:27.:19:31.

runway is a repeat of what has happened on so many occasions in the

:19:32.:19:36.

past. It is a worthless condition, I say to the House. The infamous

:19:37.:19:43.

letters of Sir John Egan in 1995 when terminal five was finally being

:19:44.:19:48.

discussed, I quote, we do not want and nor shall we seek an additional

:19:49.:19:54.

runway. We called on the inspector to recommend that subject to

:19:55.:19:58.

permission being given for terminal five, and additional Heathrow runway

:19:59.:20:03.

should be rolled out for ever. And when BAA appeared in front of the

:20:04.:20:06.

select committee on transport, on which I was honoured to serve in the

:20:07.:20:11.

1990s, we put it to the representatives of B a a time and

:20:12.:20:16.

again, but if we recommend in addition to terminal five that you

:20:17.:20:22.

have a third runway, they denied it and denied it. You cannot believe

:20:23.:20:26.

people when they try to bind the future in that way. My constituents

:20:27.:20:32.

now at Saffron Walden are also familiar with the tactic. In 1983

:20:33.:20:40.

service. There are compelling reasons which are now manifest as to

:20:41.:20:44.

why a second runway at Stansted should not be developed under any

:20:45.:20:48.

circumstances and Government should make an unequivocal declaration of

:20:49.:20:51.

intention that a second main runway will not be built. He later

:20:52.:20:57.

described the second runway as an environmental catastrophe. So the

:20:58.:21:01.

Government made that declaration and within seven years not a different

:21:02.:21:04.

Government, the same Government, had already begun to water it down.

:21:05.:21:09.

Davis himself in fact has said that in the longer term future he sees no

:21:10.:21:14.

difficulty about a second runway at Stansted. It completely devalues any

:21:15.:21:20.

undertaking that is given. There are other weaknesses, as honourable

:21:21.:21:24.

members have said, about the Davis report in support of a third runway

:21:25.:21:29.

at Heathrow. As I read the report, the impression grew on me that every

:21:30.:21:33.

consideration was being bent towards the recommendation on which the

:21:34.:21:38.

commission had already decided. Air-quality has been mentioned,

:21:39.:21:41.

surface transport, the cost of that, regional airport connections, will

:21:42.:21:48.

there only be many and for how long? I also mentioned the practicality of

:21:49.:21:51.

ruling out early arrivals at the so-called hub airports because of

:21:52.:21:57.

the effect on connectivity if it is to be effective in the future. I

:21:58.:22:02.

also question how many long haul routes will be created. This

:22:03.:22:05.

accumulation of doubts could affect the timing and financing of any

:22:06.:22:10.

third runway at Heathrow. Some people say that competition between

:22:11.:22:13.

airports is unrealistic. I am not sure I agree with that. There is no

:22:14.:22:17.

doubt that Gatwick and Stansted under their new owners have become

:22:18.:22:21.

better places in which to operate. The House will understand that I

:22:22.:22:24.

would be inconsistent with the view I formed a long time ago if I

:22:25.:22:29.

thought Northwest Essex was an admirable site foray four runway

:22:30.:22:37.

airport. I am sorry if this disappoints the noble lord Sugar. I

:22:38.:22:42.

still believe the Government was right in 1970 and my noble friend is

:22:43.:22:46.

right in saying the long-term answer lies in the estuaries. Having a

:22:47.:22:52.

decent airport for a world-class city, London needs to start again.

:22:53.:22:56.

The British have built excellent airport in other parts of the world

:22:57.:22:59.

but not here. We should think in bigger terms and we should also

:23:00.:23:07.

think of the northern powerhouse. Before I start, can I apologise to

:23:08.:23:13.

members in the chamber that the honourable member for Aldershot will

:23:14.:23:15.

not be present for summing up because of an engagement which was

:23:16.:23:21.

postponed because of the Paris atrocities. I hope that is OK with

:23:22.:23:25.

everybody present. The issue of an additional runway in the South East

:23:26.:23:33.

of England would not be appropriate if you take my inbox as a measuring

:23:34.:23:37.

tour. I have had more responses to this than on Syrian military action.

:23:38.:23:44.

London and the South East has had quite enough infrastructure

:23:45.:23:49.

investment. We should attract more to the regions and not to London. I

:23:50.:23:53.

have something to do with that argument but we have to deal with

:23:54.:23:55.

the reality of a straight choice between Heathrow and Gatwick. The

:23:56.:24:00.

SNP currently remains neutral on this matter. The party and the

:24:01.:24:05.

Scottish Government have strong views on the benefits to Scotland on

:24:06.:24:13.

better hub capacity. Scotland is on the periphery of Europe and so

:24:14.:24:16.

travel is not a luxury but an essential element of business and

:24:17.:24:21.

family life. The ability of Scotland to maintain and increase its global

:24:22.:24:28.

competitiveness is dependent on emerging markets and we are

:24:29.:24:32.

dependent on London for a lot of this connectivity. Recent research

:24:33.:24:36.

taken by the Civil Aviation Authority confirmed the extent to

:24:37.:24:41.

which Scotland is dependent on hub airports. Glasgow airport is pivotal

:24:42.:24:53.

to its future success. It sustains 7000 jobs and contributes ?200

:24:54.:24:59.

million to the national economy and carried 7.7 million passengers in

:25:00.:25:02.

2014 and is currently UK airport of the year. Glasgow, along with

:25:03.:25:10.

Aberdeen and Inverness airports, the Chambers of Commerce, and CBI

:25:11.:25:17.

Scotland also support Glasgow and a sister airport at Gatwick. The most

:25:18.:25:25.

popular route is the British Airways service between Glasgow and

:25:26.:25:31.

Heathrow. It should be noticed that Glasgow also finds Gatwick hugely

:25:32.:25:37.

important. 49% of the passengers flying to Glasgow from Heathrow were

:25:38.:25:42.

transfers. They started their journey outside the UK. 26% of

:25:43.:25:47.

Gatwick passengers were transfers. In this global AIDS connectivity is

:25:48.:25:51.

vital. Connectivity is dominated by Heathrow. It is the UK's only hub

:25:52.:25:55.

and has the greatest number of onward connections. Put simply it

:25:56.:26:03.

serves destinations that cannot be reached from any other UK airport.

:26:04.:26:09.

This decision is important to Scotland, as important as it is to

:26:10.:26:13.

London and the South East. It is not clear how the House will vote on

:26:14.:26:19.

this issue. When giving evidence to the public, the Leader of the House

:26:20.:26:24.

said if we have a vote on where to build, Heathrow or Gatwick, within

:26:25.:26:27.

the UK Parliament, it will be carried only with the wishes of the

:26:28.:26:33.

UK Parliament, but it will depend on the nature of the vehicle. A vote is

:26:34.:26:37.

only in principle and not legislation. If it is a piece of

:26:38.:26:43.

legislation and it is about detailed planning, it will be for the Speaker

:26:44.:26:47.

to decide if it is an early motion or not. The possibility of Scottish

:26:48.:26:54.

MPs not thinking the matter is important was met with incredulity.

:26:55.:26:59.

It is absolutely preposterous, like say Scottish MPs should only vote on

:27:00.:27:13.

things based in Scotland. Heathrow is a UK asset. It is a major hub for

:27:14.:27:18.

connect UK to as many international as possible. To say it is

:27:19.:27:33.

English-only is complete nonsense. I hope I have made two things

:27:34.:27:38.

abundantly clear. The connectivity that an additional runway would

:27:39.:27:42.

provide is vital to Scotland and its potential. Secondly, if the House is

:27:43.:27:46.

asked to make a decision on the issue it should not be certified as

:27:47.:27:51.

England only. We should be allowed full voting rights on such an

:27:52.:27:58.

important issue. I wanted to congratulate my friend the

:27:59.:28:01.

honourable member for Twickenham and for her promotion of meteorite

:28:02.:28:10.

honourable member -- of me to write honourable member. Given the looming

:28:11.:28:14.

decision on Heathrow, that is extremely unlikely! Whenever there

:28:15.:28:20.

is a big infrastructure projects it always causes pain. Then the game

:28:21.:28:24.

justifies that pain. Clearly that is the view of those people who support

:28:25.:28:31.

Heathrow expansion but I urge them to look properly at the costs and

:28:32.:28:33.

benefits of this project before taking a view because they speak for

:28:34.:28:38.

themselves. I want to briefly revisit some of the costs. I will be

:28:39.:28:43.

brief. Noise, the principal concern. Heathrow is already Europe's biggest

:28:44.:28:49.

noise polluted by far. 720,000 people are affected. A third runway

:28:50.:28:58.

would increase flights from 740,000 a year, affecting 1 million people,

:28:59.:29:03.

and people would lose half the respite that they treasure from

:29:04.:29:12.

eight hours to four hours. Expanding Heathrow with a third runway merely

:29:13.:29:15.

tells us that Heathrow is a company that is used to getting its way with

:29:16.:29:20.

Government and so no longer needs to even appear reasonable.

:29:21.:29:24.

The government have not analysed the impact of noise on residents, I

:29:25.:29:31.

don't and they have seen the flight path but that may be clarified

:29:32.:29:35.

later. The pollution. With two runways, air pollution around he

:29:36.:29:39.

wrote massively exceeds legal limits, and the runway will see 75

:29:40.:29:44.

million more people using the air, going back woods and forward. TfL

:29:45.:29:51.

believes an extra runway would add 25 million more lorry and car

:29:52.:29:56.

journeys. -- backwards. Nobody in the world believes you can reconcile

:29:57.:30:02.

Heathrow expansion with aspirations relating to Eric quality. -- air

:30:03.:30:11.

quality. It is hard to know how to respond to the assertion. Howard

:30:12.:30:16.

Davies himself has begun to nuance his position on the back of the VW

:30:17.:30:22.

scandal, on the basis that the data has been revealed to be entirely

:30:23.:30:26.

fraudulent. He told a committee of MPs, I do think the government will

:30:27.:30:31.

need to satisfy itself on this point. Clearly some things have

:30:32.:30:35.

moved on but the government will need to satisfy that this can be

:30:36.:30:43.

done safely. But financial costs. It is an unlikely new ally, Willie

:30:44.:30:48.

Walsh, who has described the cost is prohibitive and make the project

:30:49.:30:52.

undeliverable. Surface transport costs alone, it is obvious he is

:30:53.:31:01.

right. Had you accommodate 25 extra -- 25 million extra car journeys a

:31:02.:31:05.

year? Heathrow puts the cost at ?1 billion. TfL puts the cost at ?20

:31:06.:31:12.

billion. It goes on and on and on. That is some of the downside, and it

:31:13.:31:17.

is big. You might accept that downside if the economic case was

:31:18.:31:25.

overwhelming, but the Howard Davies report makes the economic case for

:31:26.:31:32.

us. There is a giant gap between the report itself and the conclusion it

:31:33.:31:36.

reaches. It is like Howard Davies began with a conclusion, spent 20

:31:37.:31:40.

billion quid cobbling together and analysis and data and information

:31:41.:31:46.

and then came to the same old conclusion at the end of the report.

:31:47.:31:49.

He tells us in the report that in the most optimistic scenario, an

:31:50.:31:56.

expanded Heathrow will give us 12 additional international routes, and

:31:57.:32:00.

much of the additional activity, if not all, would be at the expense of

:32:01.:32:05.

neighbouring airports like sand bed and Gatwick. -- Stansted. In other

:32:06.:32:12.

words, we would not be creating new activity, we would centralise

:32:13.:32:18.

existing activity, recreating a monopoly. It is a pitifully small

:32:19.:32:25.

outside, and more so when you compare it with the dose of pain

:32:26.:32:31.

that Heathrow expansion encompasses. I agree with what you say, including

:32:32.:32:34.

what you say about the airport commission report, but we are where

:32:35.:32:39.

we are, and the choice has to be made. Does he go further than his

:32:40.:32:46.

previous position and support the second runway at gap which? That is

:32:47.:32:52.

the only other credible option on the table. -- Gatwick. I will answer

:32:53.:32:59.

that point but I have to say that the honourable member for tooting

:33:00.:33:03.

seems to ebb and flow with the weather. He says one thing to one

:33:04.:33:06.

audience and another to another audience. His position on Heathrow

:33:07.:33:11.

is as authentic as Donald Trump's Herr!

:33:12.:33:20.

LAUGHTER -- hair. I will answer nevertheless. The alternative to

:33:21.:33:24.

monopoly, which is what is proposed as the first choice of the Howard

:33:25.:33:28.

Davies commission, the alternative is competition. Competition works,

:33:29.:33:33.

you only have to look at Gatwick to know it works. It has opened up

:33:34.:33:39.

routes to places we were told it could not be open. Hanoi, Jakarta.

:33:40.:33:44.

Two routes to China. Competition is the answer. Despite coming down in

:33:45.:33:50.

favour of monopoly, Howard Davies has acknowledged it will stifle

:33:51.:33:54.

growth at other airports. Had we encourage it? We invest in transport

:33:55.:34:00.

links between the three main airports in London, and if and when,

:34:01.:34:04.

as is likely, we have the capacity problem, it bans are not at

:34:05.:34:20.

Heathrow, but in -- we have the capacity problem. Order. We have had

:34:21.:34:29.

a problem with the clock. If the honourable gentleman is about to

:34:30.:34:34.

take in intervention, I calculate that he has one minute and 50

:34:35.:34:40.

seconds including the intervention he is about to take. I have listened

:34:41.:34:52.

to the organisation who came along and spoke and their concerns on the

:34:53.:34:58.

expansion of the Heathrow runway but I don't think any of the questions

:34:59.:35:03.

have been answered. The air monitoring system at Heathrow is

:35:04.:35:10.

totally inadequate. For the record, I agree with the position expressed.

:35:11.:35:18.

This is an issue for the SNP. This is a piece of national

:35:19.:35:20.

infrastructure which requires the consent of the UK. Some colleagues

:35:21.:35:26.

believe we need a giant mega-. Some colleagues will back Heathrow

:35:27.:35:28.

expansion because they think the inadequate third runway will give

:35:29.:35:33.

way to a fourth runway, and people on that basis are going to this

:35:34.:35:39.

halfway route. They should bear in mind what air traffic control of the

:35:40.:35:46.

airport commission -they would veto the construction of a fourth runway

:35:47.:35:52.

on the basis that the West London skies are too crowded and they don't

:35:53.:35:55.

believe it is possible to keep these guys save with a fourth runway. --

:35:56.:36:03.

skies. I would ask them to think again. The skies in that region

:36:04.:36:08.

could not accommodate it. Regardless, I only have 30 seconds.

:36:09.:36:13.

Regardless of the government's decision, I personally don't believe

:36:14.:36:20.

Heathrow expansion will happen. The government decision will not make

:36:21.:36:23.

the slightest bit of difference other than to delay a discussion

:36:24.:36:27.

which has gone for too long. It is not politically deliverable or

:36:28.:36:30.

legally deliverable either. I know that MPs and councillors and

:36:31.:36:35.

countless residents across the very large flight path will make that

:36:36.:36:38.

point for as long as they need to do. Thank you. Excellent speeches,

:36:39.:36:47.

critically by the honourable lady for Twickenham and my honourable

:36:48.:36:51.

friend for Brentwood and Isa with. -- Brentford. -- Isa with. I am

:36:52.:37:00.

opposed to the third runway at Heathrow and I am not personally

:37:01.:37:06.

convinced that there is a case for a third runway in the South East at

:37:07.:37:09.

all. I have suggestions for more sensible way forward. Maximise the

:37:10.:37:14.

use of existing capacity and one way we could do this is by realising

:37:15.:37:18.

that we have a new generation of aircraft types coming in with

:37:19.:37:25.

shorter landing requirements, so there will be more per hour, such as

:37:26.:37:33.

the Boeing Dreamliner, which is more fuel efficient and less polluting.

:37:34.:37:42.

At Stansted there is more capacity and that should be maximised. In my

:37:43.:37:50.

hometown of Luton, Luton airport is due to expand its capacity from 10

:37:51.:37:55.

million to 20 million, and that is welcomed. We are talking about a

:37:56.:38:03.

rail transit link between the station and airport and I'm eating

:38:04.:38:05.

the airport director tomorrow to discuss these matters. -- and I'm

:38:06.:38:13.

meeting. London Luton could become a satellite for Heathrow if there were

:38:14.:38:20.

to be a fast rail link between Luton airport station and Heathrow, and

:38:21.:38:25.

this could go through Cricklewood, and that will be a way forward. It

:38:26.:38:31.

could be a hub satellite. There is a major case is the honourable friend

:38:32.:38:37.

mentioned for making greater use of regional airports. He has mentioned

:38:38.:38:45.

Birmingham. A two hour drive is not going to be effective at serving

:38:46.:38:50.

London, but there are ways of dealing with it and I have spoken

:38:51.:39:00.

about the probability... Am grateful -- I am grateful that he touched on

:39:01.:39:05.

Birmingham Airport. Is he aware that HS2, which is not favoured by every

:39:06.:39:09.

member in this House, will make the journey between Birmingham Airport

:39:10.:39:13.

and Central London 36 minutes. It takes longer from Stansted and

:39:14.:39:19.

possibly from Luton. I have a better is digestion -- I have a better

:39:20.:39:26.

suggestion. My suggestion is for electrifying and upgrading the

:39:27.:39:31.

Birmingham Snow Hill to London line, going through Banbury, and linking

:39:32.:39:37.

to Crossrail, so you can get from Birmingham business district right

:39:38.:39:39.

to Canary Wharf and also to Heathrow. This can be linked

:39:40.:39:43.

directly to Birmingham Airport via Leamington Spa. A one-hour service

:39:44.:39:50.

shuttle between Birmingham Airport and Heathrow Airport could make

:39:51.:39:54.

Birmingham and London Heathrow satellites and hubs for each other.

:39:55.:40:01.

A tremendous boon. One hour from Birmingham to Central London on a

:40:02.:40:06.

modified, electrified line would be a way forward and make redundant the

:40:07.:40:16.

need for HS2. That is my major suggestion but there is also the

:40:17.:40:20.

possibility of other developments in other airports. In the north,

:40:21.:40:26.

Manchester. My suggestion of electrifying that line, you can get

:40:27.:40:34.

direct electrical services as long as we upgrade the Birmingham Snow

:40:35.:40:40.

Hill line through to Heathrow and to Canary Wharf. That is a much more

:40:41.:40:46.

sensible way forward and will benefit the West Midlands, other

:40:47.:40:51.

regions of the country, and it would mean we take some of the pressure

:40:52.:40:55.

off the South East both in terms of aircraft travel and also in terms of

:40:56.:41:00.

economic development and housing as well, I hope. My suggestion, I hope

:41:01.:41:10.

is hopeful. Can I congratulate my honourable friend on securing what

:41:11.:41:19.

is a very important debate. I am delighted because as the Minister

:41:20.:41:23.

for aviation when my honourable friend the Secretary of State set up

:41:24.:41:26.

the Davis commission, I think it is long overdue that we have the

:41:27.:41:31.

opportunity to debate what is a critically important issue. I have

:41:32.:41:37.

to say that I am concerned because we have been discussing, as my

:41:38.:41:46.

honourable friend said, for 50 years now the issue of runways and

:41:47.:41:50.

airports in the vicinity of London and Beyonce, and we have now reached

:41:51.:42:02.

a critical point. -- beyond. We all know if we have used Heathrow,

:42:03.:42:05.

particularly long haul flights, that it is overcrowded and overcapacity.

:42:06.:42:12.

You can easily see that when flying in long haul in the early morning,

:42:13.:42:17.

with the stacking that goes on around London, which is not healthy

:42:18.:42:22.

for landing, and not healthy for connectivity and travel. -- for

:42:23.:42:29.

London. The time has come to stop talking and to come up with a viable

:42:30.:42:36.

solution because I also think it is in our national interests and in our

:42:37.:42:41.

economic interests to continue to ensure that it is in written that

:42:42.:42:49.

the hub airport for Western Europe is and remains, and heaven knows,

:42:50.:42:55.

Heathrow is under immense pressure from Frankfurt, from Amsterdam, from

:42:56.:43:03.

Paris, and from even possibly Madrid to try and poach that position away

:43:04.:43:08.

from us. It is not in our interest economically and not in our interest

:43:09.:43:13.

for those people who travel outside the UK from Heathrow or Gatwick.

:43:14.:43:19.

There have been proposals... Yes I will give way. With reference to his

:43:20.:43:24.

point about Heathrow being congested, it is partly because

:43:25.:43:28.

Heathrow is operating its two runways in alternate modes. If it

:43:29.:43:35.

were not, and local people don't want change, but if it were not, it

:43:36.:43:38.

would get 216 extra slot per day. I fully appreciate what he has just

:43:39.:43:50.

said but the critical thing was that local people do not want it. The

:43:51.:43:55.

pressures that there have been on the operations of Heathrow over many

:43:56.:44:01.

years has been paramount. Some people have suggested that there

:44:02.:44:09.

should be in effect a joint hub for the UK based on Heathrow and

:44:10.:44:14.

Gatwick. That has been tried, it was tried in the 80s, it was tried in

:44:15.:44:19.

the 90s and it was a failure not least because the major airlines

:44:20.:44:26.

wanted the slots at London Heathrow. There is of course the alternative

:44:27.:44:32.

that some of my honourable friend 's argued that it should be Gatwick.

:44:33.:44:38.

The day this report with an independent report, it looked in

:44:39.:44:44.

tremendous detail at all the alternatives including my honourable

:44:45.:44:50.

friend the Mayor of London's proposal which I have to say I was

:44:51.:44:59.

not in favour of. But they have as an independent body carrying out

:45:00.:45:06.

their research, their analysis have come up with conclusions in what I

:45:07.:45:11.

believe is a formidable document. Quite clearly, that will not find

:45:12.:45:18.

favour with people particularly in parts of central London and

:45:19.:45:21.

south-west London. Though I will add one caveat, given the sheer number

:45:22.:45:27.

of jobs that are dependent on Heathrow as a thriving airport, not

:45:28.:45:33.

simply in London but also in the Home Counties and beyond, I do find

:45:34.:45:43.

it strange in many ways that their readers a potentially silent

:45:44.:45:46.

majority of people who work there are reliant for their livelihoods on

:45:47.:45:52.

Heathrow who remain silent and do not make their case, for what I

:45:53.:46:02.

assume... I think it would be useful to hear more on both sides but what

:46:03.:46:08.

is most important is that we finally put to bed this constant bickering,

:46:09.:46:14.

this constant arguing and that we come up with a coherent proposal

:46:15.:46:19.

that we can move forward with to protect our position as a supplier

:46:20.:46:24.

of the hub airport for Western Europe. I also think we should look

:46:25.:46:30.

and I accept this is as controversial but would need more

:46:31.:46:33.

parties support, we need to look again at the way in which the

:46:34.:46:39.

planning procedures operate in this country for major projects. It is

:46:40.:46:44.

quite crazy that it takes so long to build a project and so as not to

:46:45.:46:53.

antagonise too many of my honourable friend is today, let's exclude the

:46:54.:46:57.

airport out of the equation, let's take a chess two, terminal five at

:46:58.:47:02.

Heathrow, let's take a few of the other projects that are beneficial

:47:03.:47:08.

to the economy. The amount of time it takes, the procedures you have to

:47:09.:47:12.

far around with to get from a to B to C which is the eventual opening

:47:13.:47:20.

is wrong and we need to reform them, not to cut the way people's

:47:21.:47:26.

writes to object and have their concerns expressed but to make sure

:47:27.:47:30.

they cannot be used to gerrymander the process to delay them and delay

:47:31.:47:36.

them and delay them. To what it is worth, as I am coming to the end of

:47:37.:47:43.

my speech, from a purely personal point of view, I think that Heathrow

:47:44.:47:48.

is the compelling case for the expanded airport to meet our

:47:49.:47:54.

capacity problems and to ensure we have a thriving and successful

:47:55.:48:02.

aviation industry in this country. I will begin by briefly reflecting the

:48:03.:48:09.

views of my honourable friend for Hayes and Hollington, not only

:48:10.:48:12.

because he is unable to take part in this debate but because he has been

:48:13.:48:18.

the foremost opponent of Heathrow expansion over many years. He says

:48:19.:48:23.

that at the southern tip of his constituency is an 11th century

:48:24.:48:27.

village which contains the oldest barn in England, it has an ancient

:48:28.:48:33.

church and is the home to thousands of people and that many of these

:48:34.:48:37.

homes would have stood for a thousand years and would be

:48:38.:48:41.

demolished if a third runway is stored at Heathrow. Heathrow would

:48:42.:48:45.

require 783 properties in the village but it also said it will buy

:48:46.:48:53.

homes in the neighbouring villages. In total up to 4000 homes might need

:48:54.:48:59.

to be acquired. There are parts of his constituency where air pollution

:49:00.:49:02.

levels exceed the EU limits and where a lot of the pollution and

:49:03.:49:06.

while a lot of the pollution comes from motor do cause, Heathrow is

:49:07.:49:11.

being disingenuous in stating it will bring in a quarter of a million

:49:12.:49:15.

more planes eg and expect pollution levels to fall. Their belief is one

:49:16.:49:24.

of faith. Of course the impact of a third runway will not just be felt

:49:25.:49:28.

in Hayes and Hollington but right across London and the Home Counties.

:49:29.:49:35.

The noise figures are well-known, over 725,000 people are impacted by

:49:36.:49:41.

noise from Heathrow, 28% of all people disturbed by aircraft noise

:49:42.:49:45.

across Europe. Heathrow are stretching credibility to claim the

:49:46.:49:48.

number of people affected by noise windfall with a quarter of a million

:49:49.:49:53.

extra planes using the third runway yet that is what they say. The

:49:54.:49:58.

economics of a third one way are equally questionable. The airports

:49:59.:50:01.

commission could not make up its mind on the figures. A third runway

:50:02.:50:09.

would benefit plc to the tune of billions but it's own advisers said

:50:10.:50:13.

there were a number of difficulties with the model used to get that

:50:14.:50:16.

figure using traditional tested modelling methods, a third runway

:50:17.:50:23.

would bring benefits of 69 billion but is the cost of this benefits

:50:24.:50:27.

such as noise and the cost of delivering the runway which mean

:50:28.:50:36.

more. Given that cost of a third runway as well as damage to the

:50:37.:50:43.

climate, my plea to government is not to be swayed by advertising

:50:44.:50:47.

slogans and self-interested voices but to recognise the economy of the

:50:48.:50:51.

UK is not dependent upon this destructive third runway at

:50:52.:50:57.

Heathrow. Having said that, the time for talking is now over. We were

:50:58.:51:02.

promised recently that an announcement as to which of the

:51:03.:51:06.

choices of Gatwick or Heathrow would be made by the government before

:51:07.:51:11.

Christmas and I'm sure the Minister can confirm that. I support the

:51:12.:51:16.

Gatwick option, I think we have to make that choice and I'm sorry that

:51:17.:51:24.

the member has chosen this rather furtive answer to which he gave to

:51:25.:51:28.

my crush on. I think his bid for high office has... We have to back

:51:29.:51:36.

Gatwick because that is the only other choice available but it is

:51:37.:51:42.

also necessary as a driver of the south-west economy, but I say also

:51:43.:51:48.

that my honourable friend was pleading the case for Birmingham.

:51:49.:51:54.

For my constituents, when HS2 is built, it will be quicker to get to

:51:55.:51:59.

Birmingham Airport than the Piccadilly line to Heathrow. There

:52:00.:52:09.

are other options. HS2 will stop at Euston which is nowhere near

:52:10.:52:12.

Heathrow. My scheme would provide for a direct running between

:52:13.:52:18.

Birmingham and Heathrow and make Birmingham and Heathrow effectively

:52:19.:52:25.

partner airports. Old folk in my constituency will be the major

:52:26.:52:30.

interchange and that will be 31 minutes from Birmingham Airport and

:52:31.:52:36.

I welcome and support that scheme. Heathrow has ruled the roost for too

:52:37.:52:41.

long. Of course it could keep Stansted and Gatwick quiet when it

:52:42.:52:45.

owned those airports and it also seem to manage to mesmerise

:52:46.:52:49.

successive governments. It was only when my honourable friend for

:52:50.:52:54.

Doncaster North became part of the Labour Party that the policy changed

:52:55.:52:58.

and we hoped that when the Prime Minister said if no buts it would

:52:59.:53:06.

change in the Conservative Party as well. I don't believe that was the

:53:07.:53:10.

case and I believe the commission was set up under a false prospectus.

:53:11.:53:19.

One only has to look in the change reference. The inevitable conclusion

:53:20.:53:27.

to deliberately delayed over a period of time to take us beyond the

:53:28.:53:33.

date of the election only came to where we are now. I do crew and

:53:34.:53:38.

interest that a third runway has proposed would be directly over

:53:39.:53:41.

Hammersmith and Shepherd's Bush and would subject communities in that

:53:42.:53:46.

area to sustained aircraft noise. But the effect is Jim attic across

:53:47.:53:53.

the whole of West London and it is unnecessary. -- dramatic. I would

:53:54.:53:59.

praise the work Hammersmith and Fulham Council have done in many

:54:00.:54:05.

years opposing this. But I would also praised them for having set up

:54:06.:54:12.

an independent residence commission, which took evidence from

:54:13.:54:18.

all parties and came to these conclusions. Yes, it said that we

:54:19.:54:23.

would enjoy economic benefits and yes there would be an increased

:54:24.:54:28.

choice of flights and destinations for residents and visitors, but the

:54:29.:54:33.

additional flights overhead and the additional noise, additional

:54:34.:54:37.

congestion, traffic, the effects on her quality, the failure to mitigate

:54:38.:54:42.

noise properly, the safety concerns and the effect of all on residents

:54:43.:54:47.

health and quality of life are price is not worth paying. No other

:54:48.:54:52.

country would think of subjecting millions of people across west

:54:53.:54:59.

London, 2 million people across the most densely populated part of this

:55:00.:55:04.

country to that intolerable burden. This is insanity particularly when

:55:05.:55:07.

there is an acceptable alternative and I hope the government makes its

:55:08.:55:11.

decision and it will see sense on this matter. Of course there are

:55:12.:55:19.

members on all sides of this house who have constituency interests in

:55:20.:55:25.

this matter. So far we have heard from honourable members who have

:55:26.:55:30.

concerns about the expansion of Heathrow. I also have constituency

:55:31.:55:35.

concerns but about the expansion of Gatwick. Many of those sound similar

:55:36.:55:43.

to those concerns raised by my honourable friends and others, but

:55:44.:55:47.

those concerns must be beside the point. I think we should all agree

:55:48.:55:53.

that we need to take this decision in the national interest for reasons

:55:54.:55:57.

that were very well described by my honourable friend the member for

:55:58.:56:04.

champs fled. I do have to make this point first of all, what is the

:56:05.:56:10.

point at the risk of sounding like Basil faulty, what is the point of

:56:11.:56:16.

setting up an airports commission at last cost to look in an expert away

:56:17.:56:21.

at the right solution is then that preferred option, which the airports

:56:22.:56:26.

commission recommends, is simply to be swept aside and west of all were

:56:27.:56:32.

it to be swept aside for narrow political reasons. I'm afraid I have

:56:33.:56:38.

to challenge the suggestion that is being made by some that in some way

:56:39.:56:45.

the airports commission offered three equal options to the

:56:46.:56:53.

government as to the airport that should be developed. Indeed I heard

:56:54.:56:58.

with some alarm my honourable friend the Transport Secretary say on the

:56:59.:57:03.

today programme that the Davis report and I quote, gave us three

:57:04.:57:09.

options, my honourable friend did concede that Heathrow was the

:57:10.:57:13.

preferred option but there is no reading that one can possibly make

:57:14.:57:17.

of the airports commission that leads to a conclusion other than

:57:18.:57:21.

Heathrow was the unequivocal recommendation of the commission.

:57:22.:57:30.

Davis deads said Heathrow was the best answer, Heathrow presented the

:57:31.:57:36.

strongest case, Gatwick was plausible but he then went on to

:57:37.:57:43.

explain why Gatwick had not offered the same benefits. Those were

:57:44.:57:47.

connectivity, that Gatwick is an airport that lies to the south of

:57:48.:57:51.

London and is not connected to the transport network in the same way,

:57:52.:57:57.

the rail link to Gatwick is already a joke and oversubscribed and is not

:57:58.:58:04.

connected to HS2. Those were secondly the economic benefit. The

:58:05.:58:08.

economic benefits that Dave is calculated for Heathrow were

:58:09.:58:14.

considerably higher than those of Gatwick, up to ?147 billion in net

:58:15.:58:22.

present value of net economic benefit by comparison to ?89 billion

:58:23.:58:29.

of economic benefit to Gatwick. A considerable difference. Third

:58:30.:58:35.

overall and I think in sense most significantly Davis pointed out that

:58:36.:58:38.

Gatwick could not offered the connectivity of Heathrow and this I

:58:39.:58:42.

think goes to the heart of the matter. We need a single hub airport

:58:43.:58:48.

and that is what almost all of the airlines are saying and the great

:58:49.:58:51.

danger now would be to produce a solution that does not deliver that

:58:52.:58:55.

hard and to watch what happens to London as a consequence were we to

:58:56.:59:00.

then lose business to our international competitors. New York

:59:01.:59:04.

has two airports, where is the hub on the east coast of the US? It's at

:59:05.:59:10.

Chicago, a far bigger airport than the New York offering, far more

:59:11.:59:15.

connectivity and New York loses out as a consequence. Tokyo has two

:59:16.:59:20.

airports. Where is the new hub, new business going in the far east? Not

:59:21.:59:29.

to Tokyo but to Korea and although competition has been advantageous

:59:30.:59:32.

and the break-up of the monopolistic ownership of airports has delivered

:59:33.:59:38.

benefits to passengers, the idea that competition would be a good

:59:39.:59:43.

thing, that somehow we could run two hub airports when all experience has

:59:44.:59:47.

told us that is what the airlines do not want to do, that experience of

:59:48.:59:51.

spitting business between Heathrow and Gatwick was such a disaster for

:59:52.:59:57.

British Airways in the past, is one for the birds. The member for

:59:58.:00:05.

Richmond Park said Gatwick is flying to Jakarta. Actually it would have

:00:06.:00:10.

announced they will leave Gatwick and go back to Heathrow. Heathrow

:00:11.:00:15.

offers a better connectivity for them in terms of a direct flight to

:00:16.:00:21.

Jakarta. I think we would be making a serious mistake on the worst kind

:00:22.:00:27.

of short-term decision-making is we ignored the unequivocal

:00:28.:00:32.

recommendation of this report. In 1974, Labour camps in the Channel

:00:33.:00:37.

Tunnel proposed then by a Conservative government. It

:00:38.:00:40.

cancelled the map airport proposal and we are still paying the price.

:00:41.:00:45.

The Channel Tunnel link was built decades later and way behind the

:00:46.:00:51.

rail link was then way behind that of the French and we do not have a

:00:52.:00:58.

hub airport. Lord Adonis described that as stupid, short-term is

:00:59.:01:03.

decisions. We have a clear recommendation from the airports

:01:04.:01:07.

commission. The evidence is clear. The government set up the report,

:01:08.:01:10.

now is not the time to run away from it.

:01:11.:01:15.

Heathrow is something that has been in the background for me for 43

:01:16.:01:22.

years. At people just north of Ealing Broadway if you were doing a

:01:23.:01:26.

reading in assembly you would have to stop and the teacher would say,

:01:27.:01:32.

hang on, and Concorde would fly past and then you could continue. -- at

:01:33.:01:39.

primary school just north. I now live even more directly in the

:01:40.:01:43.

flight path. People I went to school with had parents with jobs at

:01:44.:01:51.

Heathrow, I now do as well, it is a significant local employer with

:01:52.:01:55.

vital importance to the hotel of west London strategically. I have

:01:56.:01:58.

good relationships with them as an employer, I went back to that

:01:59.:02:02.

primary school on an engineering challenge with them, I have been up

:02:03.:02:06.

the control tower and I recognise the figures, I think... There was a

:02:07.:02:15.

3 Borough study that said 70,000 jobs, the one from Heathrow is even

:02:16.:02:24.

higher, 76 thousand directly, even though indirectly. I like the fact I

:02:25.:02:30.

can directly get a Piccadilly line train in 20 minutes but despite all

:02:31.:02:36.

this and the fantastical figures that Heathrow promise will come with

:02:37.:02:39.

expansion I can't support expansion at this time. It is in the wrong

:02:40.:02:47.

place. If you were starting from scratch you would not build

:02:48.:02:52.

London's main hub airport in a densely populated urban area which

:02:53.:02:57.

brings a raft of problems like noise, air pollution and traffic

:02:58.:03:02.

congestion. The main European hub is not in a compatible destination,

:03:03.:03:07.

they built it over fields, and those impacts are already high, so how is

:03:08.:03:13.

an extra runway going to solve that? Air pollution and traffic gridlock

:03:14.:03:20.

are much worse than ever before. My honourable friend from Hammersmith

:03:21.:03:22.

mentioned the villages in Harmondsworth, those places that

:03:23.:03:31.

would be bulldozed to do this, thousands of homes. In expansion

:03:32.:03:36.

there are no snakes than ladders. If you are doing an analysis of

:03:37.:03:41.

environmental threat in terms of noise pollution and carbon

:03:42.:03:53.

emissions, they far outweigh the sometimes even, 1 could say,

:03:54.:03:59.

spurious claims that Heathrow makes. It already breaches the legal limits

:04:00.:04:05.

on air quality and there is insufficient assurance to address

:04:06.:04:12.

this. Gatwick, which is still on the table, has never broken legal air

:04:13.:04:15.

quality limits and would remain within them even with an extra

:04:16.:04:20.

runway. The figures are 18,000 people will be newly affected by

:04:21.:04:26.

expansion to Gatwick, 320,000 for Heathrow, 17 times is the

:04:27.:04:32.

difference. We are at a time when every pound of public expenditure

:04:33.:04:37.

should be justified. To expand Gatwick would cost the Treasury

:04:38.:04:42.

pretty much nothing, whereas for Heathrow it would be ?20 billion of

:04:43.:04:48.

taxpayer subsidy. Many people have mentioned, Willie Walsh has said it

:04:49.:04:53.

is unjustifiable in terms of costs. We constantly hear that Heathrow is

:04:54.:04:59.

at capacity but Gatwick had 40 million passengers last year, which

:05:00.:05:04.

the Airports Commission report said would not happen until 2024. It is

:05:05.:05:09.

crying out for expansion. Yesterday evening I was at a public meeting at

:05:10.:05:16.

a church in Chiswick and there were 200 people there. The organisers

:05:17.:05:20.

said 300, maybe it is a medium between those figures, but they were

:05:21.:05:27.

unanimous in their opposition to a third Heathrow runway. We have seen

:05:28.:05:30.

flashbulbs that showed the strength of feeling against this. My maiden

:05:31.:05:37.

speech said I wanted to be a voice for the suburbs. People yesterday

:05:38.:05:45.

from Bedford Park Society said that is the world's first Garden suburb,

:05:46.:05:49.

which was initially marketed by saying it was the world's most

:05:50.:05:54.

healthy place. They feel this will make a mockery of that. It has been

:05:55.:06:00.

mentioned that regional expansion is another possibility. We can even

:06:01.:06:04.

think beyond our reliance on planes. The meetings we all have could be

:06:05.:06:15.

done by telephone conferencing even. My friend the honourable member for

:06:16.:06:18.

Bristol South says there is an airport there that could be

:06:19.:06:22.

expanded, there is Stansted, which is echoingly empty compared to

:06:23.:06:30.

Heathrow and Gatwick. Expansion at Manchester would fit the northern

:06:31.:06:41.

powerhouse argument. It was 2012 before I was a candidate, even

:06:42.:06:46.

before then for 20 years this has been talked about. I just hope this

:06:47.:06:53.

point be pushed into the long grass further, any longer, and that the

:06:54.:06:57.

right decision is made for West London. Going back to Bedford Park,

:06:58.:07:05.

which are used to represent as a Conservative councillor, can I put

:07:06.:07:08.

it to her that all these people who live there, and this is an affluent

:07:09.:07:13.

area, not only knew that Heathrow was there when they moved there, but

:07:14.:07:18.

given the nature of their placate -- occupations probably benefit from

:07:19.:07:22.

the close proximity of Heathrow. I thank him for his intervention. It

:07:23.:07:29.

depends when they moved there, there were people there yesterday who said

:07:30.:07:35.

when they moved there Heathrow was a glimmer of what it is now, there

:07:36.:07:41.

were not suddenly five terminals. I am not saying we should raise to the

:07:42.:07:47.

ground Heathrow, I am saying it is important strategically for the

:07:48.:07:50.

whole of West London, I like it being near me, but London is big

:07:51.:07:58.

enough, it is a city with a population of 10 million soon, why

:07:59.:08:06.

can't we have the two destinations, Gatwick and Heathrow, it is

:08:07.:08:10.

completely possible. Those are the two in this report, or we could look

:08:11.:08:15.

at regional alternatives, there are places other than just London in

:08:16.:08:25.

this country. Funnily enough I think that there are some good things in

:08:26.:08:32.

the report by the aviation commission. Two conclusions I agree

:08:33.:08:36.

with, Britain needs more aviation capacity, as has been said by many

:08:37.:08:41.

honourable friends this afternoon, and I think it is a disgrace for

:08:42.:08:46.

instance that Frankfurt airport already serves 100 more destinations

:08:47.:08:51.

than Heathrow, a wretched fact when we are trying to intensify trading

:08:52.:08:56.

cooperation with China. There are about nine cities in China that you

:08:57.:09:01.

cannot reach from the UK, only from airports in continental Europe.

:09:02.:09:10.

Second point I agree with, and I don't think it is really universally

:09:11.:09:14.

shared here this afternoon, is that the only way to achieve that greater

:09:15.:09:19.

connectivity is to have a hard airport and you need to have the

:09:20.:09:29.

volume of passengers to build the wealth of destinations. -- hub

:09:30.:09:36.

airport. The bigger the hub, -- the spokes, the bigger the hub. The only

:09:37.:09:41.

conclusion that has been come to is that that solution doesn't lie at

:09:42.:09:46.

Heathrow. It can't provide a long-term solution because it is so

:09:47.:09:53.

geographically constrained. It is basically in the wrong place for

:09:54.:10:00.

expansion. The environmental impacts and drawbacks have been well

:10:01.:10:03.

rehearsed this afternoon. I would point out to the Member for

:10:04.:10:09.

Aldershot that of course it is not just existing Londoners who would be

:10:10.:10:15.

affected by the increase in noise, although they might not appreciate

:10:16.:10:21.

planes coming in at 4am, which is what would happen if the night

:10:22.:10:26.

flight ban was overturned. There would be at least according to the

:10:27.:10:31.

aviation commission 150,000 more Londoners who would be affected by

:10:32.:10:39.

the expansion of the airport, a third runway. According to some

:10:40.:10:48.

sources 300,000 more and that is quite contrary to the government's

:10:49.:10:52.

expressed policy on aviation expansion. The second problem of

:10:53.:10:59.

course is not just noise, it is the fumes and pollution, and if you look

:11:00.:11:04.

at what will happen, many honourable members have already made this

:11:05.:11:07.

point, but it is absolutely clear that the limit values on the Bath

:11:08.:11:14.

Road will be well exceeded, there will be very serious legal

:11:15.:11:20.

challenges. I think they would be insuperable legal challenges. To

:11:21.:11:23.

build this great generator of noise and pollution in West London would

:11:24.:11:31.

cost far more than is currently estimated, the excess transport

:11:32.:11:35.

costs alone are estimated by TfL to be between ?10 billion and ?15

:11:36.:11:42.

billion, on top of the ?18.6 billion that the aviation commission has

:11:43.:11:45.

estimated for the cost of the third runway it self. Thank you for giving

:11:46.:11:53.

way. It has been estimated that surface transport costs for Heathrow

:11:54.:12:01.

would cost ?5 billion of public money, whereas my preferred option

:12:02.:12:09.

of Gatwick would cost zero. We could use that ?5 billion elsewhere on

:12:10.:12:15.

much-needed surface transport, such as a channel extension to Saturn. A

:12:16.:12:22.

very good point, and you will have heard from the Chancellor's economic

:12:23.:12:31.

plan that the extension to Sutton is ready much in our programme. Nobody

:12:32.:12:36.

has factored in the extra costs of the chance board, the government

:12:37.:12:41.

says they won't pay, the airlines say they won't pay. -- costs of the

:12:42.:12:46.

transport. I think this proposal is not able to be delivered. My final

:12:47.:12:54.

point, even if a third runway were to be completed, and it couldn't get

:12:55.:13:02.

done until 2030 by the aviation commission's own admission, it will

:13:03.:13:07.

be full at the point of completion, and it doesn't answer the exam

:13:08.:13:12.

question in the sense that it doesn't deliver the extra

:13:13.:13:15.

connectivity that we all want. It does not hook up British business

:13:16.:13:20.

with those extra destinations in China, let alone Latin America and

:13:21.:13:28.

Africa. According to the aviation commission's own figures the number

:13:29.:13:31.

of new long haul destinations would only increase by seven x 2030, the

:13:32.:13:39.

number of domestic routes, to answer the point made by some Scottish

:13:40.:13:44.

friends, would go down from seven to four. There RCTs in the United

:13:45.:13:52.

Kingdom that would lose their connection to our hub airport. --

:13:53.:14:01.

there are cities. I thank him for mentioning the connectivity to

:14:02.:14:04.

Scotland. Does he believe this should be an English only matter,

:14:05.:14:11.

does he believe that it should be for UK Parliament as a whole to

:14:12.:14:12.

decide? Nobody in Scotland would wish to be

:14:13.:14:23.

disadvantaged by the construction of a third runway at Heathrow. That

:14:24.:14:28.

would disadvantage community is not just in Scotland but other regional

:14:29.:14:33.

cities in the UK who would lose connectivity as a result of going

:14:34.:14:38.

down the wrong route, because as I say, by 2030, Heathrow, runway three

:14:39.:14:46.

would be full and the pressure would be an as my honourable friend for

:14:47.:14:51.

Richmond Park Whiteley said, I probably ought to bring my remarks

:14:52.:14:58.

to a close, as he Whiteley said in his excellent speech, the pressure

:14:59.:15:04.

would be overwhelming then for us to build a fourth runway at Heathrow

:15:05.:15:09.

which would be a total environmental catastrophe and where would we be

:15:10.:15:15.

then? What would we have done? Who would have blighted the lives of

:15:16.:15:19.

hundreds of thousands of Londoners and not just those who under the

:15:20.:15:24.

existing flight path but people in Pimlico, whose cross, south London,

:15:25.:15:28.

Chelsea, Shepherd's Bush, Hammersmith who have no idea of the

:15:29.:15:34.

scourge of visitors upon them by this appalling decision. We will

:15:35.:15:38.

have greatly worsen air quality in the greatest city on earth in breach

:15:39.:15:43.

of our international obligations, we will have spent colossal sums of

:15:44.:15:46.

taxpayers money to create a short-term solution that will not

:15:47.:15:52.

address the problem of Britain's lack of connectivity and we will

:15:53.:15:58.

find ourselves then were we to make that appalling mistake of having to

:15:59.:16:04.

address the same long-term questions that we seem determined to shirk

:16:05.:16:10.

now. That is why I think it is time to pause, to avoid making a

:16:11.:16:14.

disastrous mistake. There are better, more practical solutions on

:16:15.:16:21.

the table. Indeed, you know what they are. You know what they are. I

:16:22.:16:29.

do not have time to rehearse them now but they are infinitely

:16:30.:16:33.

preferable. They do deliver the long-term solution, they are

:16:34.:16:40.

environmental sensible. By the way they could be achieved at roughly a

:16:41.:16:44.

comfortable cost and let me tell you, in conclusion, the Prime

:16:45.:16:51.

Minister was absolutely right when he said in 2009 that he wanted to

:16:52.:16:56.

oppose a third runway at Heathrow. He was right to commit us, I voted

:16:57.:17:03.

for that, many elected on that manifesto. Order! I want to add a

:17:04.:17:14.

little bit of selfish flavour to this being from Northern Ireland. I

:17:15.:17:18.

note the point of how much it will blight so to members areas but I

:17:19.:17:24.

also like the point that the honourable friend made of national

:17:25.:17:31.

interest if we could look at this police from national interest, we in

:17:32.:17:35.

Northern Ireland need all the routes we can get and it looks to us that

:17:36.:17:40.

Heathrow is the best linkage that we can have and why am I speaking today

:17:41.:17:45.

because I have Belfast International Airport in my patch and I know that

:17:46.:17:50.

in Northern Ireland the very lifeblood of every single thing we

:17:51.:17:56.

do their depends on flying. If you cannot fly from Northern Ireland or

:17:57.:18:04.

indeed the con that it is a half day journey so the whole of our

:18:05.:18:08.

businesses, the whole of our lives link by flight to major hubs. I

:18:09.:18:15.

accept what he is saying but there are excellent services from Luton to

:18:16.:18:21.

Belfast and looting is connected to London. It is not a problem. I

:18:22.:18:27.

accept his point of view. I look at the choice of Heathrow, Stansted,

:18:28.:18:35.

Gatwick. Heathrow most of the time is the most comfortable one to do

:18:36.:18:39.

everything because it is the closest to the industry and getting here

:18:40.:18:43.

quickly, but I do accept it could be any of them and I think we would

:18:44.:18:50.

need extra runways at each one to build hubs throughout the UK because

:18:51.:18:55.

we will find flying expands and becomes more and more throughout the

:18:56.:18:59.

UK and the longer we take with this sort of debate, we will not have any

:19:00.:19:04.

decisions taken. I know what he means. It is not only from the point

:19:05.:19:09.

of view from the honourable gentleman, it is also from the

:19:10.:19:15.

perspective of a CEO from a Chinese company, being able to go to their

:19:16.:19:20.

wheat or airports and going straight to Heathrow. I want to see what we

:19:21.:19:30.

see as the northern powerhouse, Northern Ireland being the one that

:19:31.:19:35.

thrives but we seem to borrow the name from others by 52% of those

:19:36.:19:40.

travelling by air from Northern Ireland now go via Dublin. 52%. If

:19:41.:19:46.

you think how much business that is going out to the UK going to

:19:47.:19:51.

Ireland, going away, the Irish are very clever, they have no air

:19:52.:19:56.

passenger duty so it is cheaper to go that way. It is easier to drive

:19:57.:20:04.

to Dublin and fly than it is to fly from Belfast to Manchester,

:20:05.:20:07.

Heathrow. If you want to keep things within the union, we need that help.

:20:08.:20:16.

They also do the visas direct to America so it is quicker to get to

:20:17.:20:21.

America from Dublin and soon they will have a direct. Railway line

:20:22.:20:25.

that will take you there. Everything Ireland does it does extremely well

:20:26.:20:30.

to improve their connectivity. We need that, that means I need you to

:20:31.:20:36.

take on board that we need the decision quickly because that is

:20:37.:20:42.

what will help us. One of the report mentions 179,000 jobs for the whole

:20:43.:20:47.

of the UK. I was looking at that to see how many would come our way. I

:20:48.:20:54.

was told it would only be 5000 but we had 40,000 new jobs in the last

:20:55.:20:59.

few years. We need every job we can get for Northern Ireland to improve,

:21:00.:21:04.

thrive and throw off the curses of the past. Belfast International

:21:05.:21:09.

Airport has about 4.5 million passengers going through it every

:21:10.:21:14.

year and 44,000 tonnes of freight and a mass of business. If I am

:21:15.:21:20.

really trying to get a point across today, we need that connectivity,

:21:21.:21:24.

want to push the union point of view, we need your help, please, do

:21:25.:21:29.

not take too long in making decisions because it matters to us.

:21:30.:21:36.

Thank you. I think I'm right in saying that on the first member to

:21:37.:21:42.

speak in this debate who is not from the south-east of the country and

:21:43.:21:45.

therefore can hopefully bring a slightly different perspective. And

:21:46.:21:56.

bring a different English perspective to this debate, because

:21:57.:22:00.

as has already been said, this debate really has to be about what

:22:01.:22:05.

is right for Britain for the UK. It cannot just be be based on the views

:22:06.:22:12.

of people in the South or particularly those close to either

:22:13.:22:17.

of the airports. He needs to be based on what is right for our

:22:18.:22:22.

nation. It is clear that aviation connectivity is going to be critical

:22:23.:22:29.

to our economic success. A recent report by a robust global market

:22:30.:22:34.

forecast predicted that aviation will grow by 4% a year for the next

:22:35.:22:40.

20 years and that we will need an additional 30,000 aircraft to be

:22:41.:22:45.

built during that time. Economic growth, the growth in middle classes

:22:46.:22:51.

around the world, affordability and ease of travel, urbanisation and

:22:52.:22:54.

tourism are all factors that are increasing to the demand on aviation

:22:55.:22:58.

and connectivity between people and regions is going to become more and

:22:59.:23:04.

more wine issue. Increasing urbanisation that will lead to the

:23:05.:23:08.

doubling of the number of megacities in the world is going to mean that

:23:09.:23:15.

99% of the world's long haul traffic will be between all through those

:23:16.:23:22.

cities. If we want Britain to remain connected to these emerging markets

:23:23.:23:25.

and keep the British economy growing and continue to play our role as one

:23:26.:23:31.

of the world's leading economies, it is imperative that we have the

:23:32.:23:34.

ability to transport passengers and high-value goods between the cities.

:23:35.:23:43.

I find it incredible as recently elected member of this house that we

:23:44.:23:48.

are having this debate now. I find it incredible that we have not

:23:49.:23:51.

addressed this issue long ago as has been said by other members, we have

:23:52.:23:57.

been debating this issue for 20 years, decades and Britain has

:23:58.:24:01.

fallen further and further behind as a direct result of cars not grasping

:24:02.:24:06.

this issue. We have lost ground on other countries. Other countries are

:24:07.:24:13.

building their capacity, we see this in Germany, in the Middle East. I

:24:14.:24:17.

was recently at Istanbul airport and could not build the expansion and

:24:18.:24:20.

modernisation that had taken place there. If we are looking to the

:24:21.:24:26.

future, we have to address this issue and make sure that Britain

:24:27.:24:37.

keeps pace. He's right to save that we have been debating this for a

:24:38.:24:42.

long time. Would he shared that -- my frustrating that we have did

:24:43.:24:47.

baited central London's connection to the rest of the world rather than

:24:48.:24:51.

the rest of Britain. I agree with him. This needs to be what is right

:24:52.:24:57.

for Britain and part of that debate and decision needs to be about

:24:58.:25:01.

connecting the regions to world markets. It is not just about

:25:02.:25:07.

connectivity to London. It is about connecting the regions of the UK to

:25:08.:25:11.

world markets and that's where I believe Heathrow is by far the best

:25:12.:25:17.

opportunity to achieve that. I am personally of the view that this

:25:18.:25:20.

debate is actually about which airport we expand first. I think we

:25:21.:25:25.

will look back in 30 or 40 years' time and wish we had done both

:25:26.:25:32.

Heathrow and Gatwick now because aviation capacity will be required

:25:33.:25:36.

more and more in the years ahead. Heathrow operates currently at 90%

:25:37.:25:42.

capacity and this means that it only needs the site is Fletch, whether

:25:43.:25:46.

that be bad weather conditions or some other issue to create severe

:25:47.:25:52.

problems there and it also means they are unable to accommodate the

:25:53.:25:57.

growth that we need to see so that we as a nation can continue to

:25:58.:26:02.

benefit from connectivity to the emotion markets around the world. I

:26:03.:26:07.

believe we would not only be foolish to not go ahead and make a decision

:26:08.:26:11.

now but future generations will look back and view it as an almost

:26:12.:26:20.

criminal waste of opportunity. If this was France and France have

:26:21.:26:26.

produced the Davis report there would be no argument. They were just

:26:27.:26:32.

steam roller it through. I thank my honourable friend for the

:26:33.:26:36.

intervention. He makes a point that I was about to come onto although I

:26:37.:26:41.

have no desire personally to live in France all to operate in the way the

:26:42.:26:46.

French sometimes do but I will make the point that we have spent ?20

:26:47.:26:50.

million and three years in coming up with an independent report. It would

:26:51.:26:57.

seem completely foolish to not take the view of that independent report

:26:58.:27:02.

and I'm aware that members today have challenged different aspects of

:27:03.:27:06.

it and crashed on the veracity some of the data but at the end of the

:27:07.:27:10.

day, we have an independent report that has taken a great deal of time

:27:11.:27:14.

and cost a lot of money and I believe we should take the clear

:27:15.:27:20.

view that that report gives us. Just to remind my honourable friend that

:27:21.:27:24.

the people of France did indeed face the same problem that we have in

:27:25.:27:30.

London and decided to build a huge new hub airport away from the

:27:31.:27:36.

central accommodation. I'm well aware of his views on this issue.

:27:37.:27:42.

However, I recently had a meeting with the air traffic control people

:27:43.:27:45.

who said to me that an additional airport to the east of London would

:27:46.:27:50.

create some very real challenges in terms of air traffic control because

:27:51.:27:55.

it would conflict with air traffic from the Netherlands. I am not sure

:27:56.:28:00.

that is the answer. I will give way one more time. Would he agree they

:28:01.:28:07.

other challenge would be providing well connections as it would be

:28:08.:28:13.

impossible to drill a hole under London to connect with that airport?

:28:14.:28:20.

I agree. I represent the constituency of the key and Cornwall

:28:21.:28:24.

and it is clearly the view of the vast majority of people and the

:28:25.:28:29.

business community in Cornwall that Heathrow clearly offers us the best

:28:30.:28:34.

opportunity to connect our region to world markets, not just about

:28:35.:28:38.

passengers but about goods and the desire to export some of our goods

:28:39.:28:42.

to walk markets and Heathrow offers us the best opportunity to achieve

:28:43.:28:49.

that and we need to remember this is not just about passengers. Heathrow

:28:50.:28:54.

is our biggest support by valuing the whole country, around ?100

:28:55.:28:59.

billion worth of goods come in and out of Heathrow every year. It is

:29:00.:29:04.

for bigger than any container port in the country and we need to

:29:05.:29:08.

recognise this. This is not just about passengers, it is also about

:29:09.:29:13.

goods and the opportunities to exploit. In summing up, first of

:29:14.:29:20.

all, we need to make a decision, we cannot procrastinate any longer

:29:21.:29:24.

about this issue. We need to make a clear decision and I really trust

:29:25.:29:28.

the government are going to come forward with a clear decision in the

:29:29.:29:32.

next few weeks as they have promised. This decision must be

:29:33.:29:36.

about what is right for our nation and not just taking one the views of

:29:37.:29:41.

a few people in the immediate localities. It has to be what is

:29:42.:29:46.

right for our nation. Thirdly, let's get on with it. I am personally

:29:47.:29:52.

backing Heathrow. It offers the best option for our country and

:29:53.:29:56.

particularly for my region but let's just get on with it.

:29:57.:30:00.

We will have to drop to five minutes. I must apologise to

:30:01.:30:07.

colleagues for not having been able to be at this debate, although I was

:30:08.:30:14.

able to listen to contributions, like the excellent one from the

:30:15.:30:16.

honourable member from Chelmsford earlier. The honourable member who

:30:17.:30:23.

has just spoken suggests that opposition to Heathrow is from the

:30:24.:30:28.

people who are next door to Heathrow. I speak as representing a

:30:29.:30:32.

constituency that is closer to Heathrow than most of the people who

:30:33.:30:38.

have objected to it. If the Davies commission proposals are implemented

:30:39.:30:44.

the run all runways will actually come -- the runways will come into

:30:45.:30:48.

the borough of Slough, but my constituents recognise that that the

:30:49.:30:52.

prosperity of slow depends on the prosperity of Heathrow. I speak to

:30:53.:30:58.

companies in Slough who talk about the way they depend upon Heathrow.

:30:59.:31:03.

Slough includes within its boundaries more European

:31:04.:31:11.

headquarters of multinational cos then Northern Ireland, Wales and

:31:12.:31:17.

Scotland put together, and that is because of the proximity to

:31:18.:31:20.

Heathrow. They say that their boards are worried about staying in the UK,

:31:21.:31:29.

and that is because they are worried about the future of Heathrow. My

:31:30.:31:33.

first point is, make a decision fast, because if we don't have a

:31:34.:31:39.

clear conclusion supporting the Davies commission proposals soon

:31:40.:31:43.

then what will happen is inward investment, which is really

:31:44.:31:47.

significant and necessary for the UK economy, will be seriously affected.

:31:48.:31:52.

The one thing I think the Davies commission didn't deal with

:31:53.:31:56.

sufficiently well is the issue of air quality. There is clearly a

:31:57.:32:01.

problem around air quality around Heathrow, but it is not all created

:32:02.:32:14.

by the airport. The M4 junction is the most polluted in Europe. It is

:32:15.:32:23.

traffic that contributes to the air around the airport. We have an

:32:24.:32:26.

incinerator in the area which adds to the poor air quality around the

:32:27.:32:31.

airport. As we deal with these proposals I hope that we can expect

:32:32.:32:35.

the government to put in place some things that really make a difference

:32:36.:32:40.

to air quality. In my view the most urgent is the Western rail link into

:32:41.:32:47.

Heathrow, and electrified rail link... When the Labour government

:32:48.:32:51.

discussed the Heathrow third runway I refused to back it until I got a

:32:52.:32:57.

commitment from the then minister that we would electrify the great

:32:58.:33:03.

Western Railway line. In addition to that we need rail links from the

:33:04.:33:07.

West are into Heathrow because the failure to do that is one of the

:33:08.:33:16.

reasons, 1 of the important reasons for the poor air quality around the

:33:17.:33:20.

airport. One thing members have said is it is not able to be delivered

:33:21.:33:24.

because there are so many people under the flight path and so on. The

:33:25.:33:29.

reason why those people are there is because of the prosperity generated

:33:30.:33:34.

by the airport. If we were to move the airport elsewhere the same thing

:33:35.:33:38.

would happen to an alternative location. I think on both sides of

:33:39.:33:45.

the House we all recognise that for the prosperity of the UK we need

:33:46.:33:51.

people to have work, to be able to trade, to have successful inward

:33:52.:33:56.

investment, and frankly the only option on the table which really

:33:57.:34:02.

delivers on all those things is Heathrow. When I was first elected

:34:03.:34:07.

Member of Parliament for Slough Heathrow was the most competitive

:34:08.:34:14.

airport in Europe. It now isn't, we have lost international destinations

:34:15.:34:18.

because it is so crowded. There is now no direct flight to garner from

:34:19.:34:30.

the UK at the moment. -- Ghana. People are going from sheep all and

:34:31.:34:41.

shoulder gold to -- shows the goal. International passengers want to use

:34:42.:34:47.

Heathrow. Why? Because of the English language. It is the unspoken

:34:48.:34:56.

international exporter of the UK and nobody's alternative really will

:34:57.:34:58.

deliver the connectivity and competitiveness in which an expanded

:34:59.:35:08.

Heathrow will do. First of all may I thank the honourable lady, the

:35:09.:35:11.

Member for Twickenham, for initiating this debate today. We can

:35:12.:35:19.

see why on election night she confronted so many of us with her

:35:20.:35:28.

feistiness. I have to say that as a member of the transport Select

:35:29.:35:31.

Committee I am and I love out supporter of a third runway at

:35:32.:35:40.

Heathrow. -- an avowed supporter. I find it frustrating that when we

:35:41.:35:43.

have one of the biggest airports in the world, with a proven track

:35:44.:35:48.

record of success, at the edge of one of the greatest cities, if not

:35:49.:35:55.

the greatest cities in the world -- the greatest city in the world, we

:35:56.:36:00.

prevaricate with glorified NIMBY -ism. I would say to the members for

:36:01.:36:06.

London, it is not about you, it is about the future of the UK. Some of

:36:07.:36:10.

the stances some people have taken in recent years I actually find

:36:11.:36:17.

quite frustrating, it is starting to wear thin, because it is not about

:36:18.:36:25.

electoral campaigns or may the electoral future of the UK.

:36:26.:36:30.

Absolutely right, my constituency is not affected by the airport as it is

:36:31.:36:36.

or is likely to be, but what I said to the honourable member, this is

:36:37.:36:41.

about evidence. If he actually reads this report he will have to

:36:42.:36:45.

recognise that most of the conclusions are undermined by the

:36:46.:36:47.

evidence inside the report. This is one of the most flawed public

:36:48.:36:55.

Holocene documents ever created, we should base it on evidence. --

:36:56.:37:02.

public policy. I have read the reports and Davies has made a very

:37:03.:37:07.

strong recommendation as to a preference, and it is very

:37:08.:37:10.

frustrating when we hear time and again a lack of clear options being

:37:11.:37:16.

provided by those who are viscerally opposed to Heathrow. We have heard

:37:17.:37:19.

in the chamber today, let's have more reviews and discussions, kick

:37:20.:37:25.

it into the long grass, even threats that it will never be built because

:37:26.:37:28.

of legal challenge. I won't give way. I find it quite frustrating

:37:29.:37:37.

that issues of our National infrastructure, that impact not just

:37:38.:37:44.

London. Our constituents, are being sucked out to the lowest common do

:37:45.:37:48.

nominate of what is right for a handful of constituencies in West

:37:49.:37:52.

London. I really have most support the for people... I will give way.

:37:53.:37:59.

Will he not agree that one of the most damning points in the report is

:38:00.:38:04.

the lack of connectivity on a domestic level and on long haul

:38:05.:38:09.

destinations? I would like to pay tribute to Heathrow on that point

:38:10.:38:13.

because from March of next year Heathrow are introducing a

:38:14.:38:19.

connectivity flight to Inverness. If you build a third runway, and I

:38:20.:38:23.

don't accept some of the arguments I have heard in this chamber today,

:38:24.:38:29.

you build a third runway, increase capacity, increase the capacity for

:38:30.:38:34.

improving regional collectivity. People who said there would be no

:38:35.:38:41.

improvement, it is a herring. If you are someone of 70 years of age or

:38:42.:38:51.

less, you have grown up with Heathrow Airport are there and if

:38:52.:38:57.

you grew up beside what was the busiest International Airport in the

:38:58.:39:00.

world you shouldn't be surprised by aircraft noise, by planes flying

:39:01.:39:07.

overhead. That's what happens if you choose to live beside what was the

:39:08.:39:11.

busiest International Airport in the world. Guess what, it is no longer

:39:12.:39:16.

the busiest International Airport in the world because governments of

:39:17.:39:20.

several hues have failed to take a decision. Spurious things like Boris

:39:21.:39:28.

Island, and I really do admire the Member for a bridge on many things

:39:29.:39:37.

-- member for Uxbridge on many things, but it is kicking it down

:39:38.:39:42.

the road so that no decision will be taken. Will my honourable friend

:39:43.:39:50.

also bear in mind that with improved technology and advances in

:39:51.:39:53.

engineering the noise of plane engines is decreasing as well,

:39:54.:39:59.

helping to address that problem. The former transport minister makes a

:40:00.:40:04.

very good point, aircraft, like the A350 and are not only is it 23% less

:40:05.:40:10.

fuel emissions, 60% less noise emissions. People who grow up living

:40:11.:40:19.

beside an aircraft when aircraft were far more noisy, the noise

:40:20.:40:28.

argument, and also the pollution argument, with far more efficient

:40:29.:40:32.

engines, doesn't hold up. Anybody who flies into Heathrow, I would

:40:33.:40:37.

urge them to look at a TV screen above your seats, do you fly

:40:38.:40:41.

straight in or do you circle in figures of eight for half an hour,

:40:42.:40:46.

40 minutes, pumping pollution into the air? Why? Because the airport

:40:47.:40:55.

can't go straight in, it can't land. What makes you think that in three,

:40:56.:41:00.

four, five years' time, if it does get built, and some opinions think

:41:01.:41:09.

it never will, the money spent on the consultation is totally useless,

:41:10.:41:15.

but does he think that after a period of times you won't end up

:41:16.:41:19.

with long haul flights coming in and circling and the regional airports

:41:20.:41:25.

then get squeezed out further. Short interventions! The point is, I am a

:41:26.:41:36.

passionate believer in regional airports, I have an airport in my

:41:37.:41:39.

constituency, so I won't bow to that one, but I firmly believe that the

:41:40.:41:48.

importance -- in the importance of Heathrow being the only realistic,

:41:49.:41:53.

viable, deliverable harbour airport, and in terms of transport

:41:54.:41:56.

connectivity to London, we have Heathrow express bus stop -- hub

:41:57.:42:04.

airport. We have the M 40, the aged 25, connecting into the regions of

:42:05.:42:13.

the UK. -- the M25. We have Crossrail, we have HS2. If that is

:42:14.:42:21.

not true regional collectivity I don't know what is and anybody who

:42:22.:42:25.

suggests to me that building a second runway at Gatwick would

:42:26.:42:30.

deliver that form of service regional collectivity I am afraid is

:42:31.:42:34.

kidding themselves on and it is for the birds. We keep hearing from a

:42:35.:42:40.

sedentary position members from well-heeled constituencies opposed

:42:41.:42:46.

to this airport. My constituency and many constituencies in the regions

:42:47.:42:51.

of the UK will be delighted at the opportunity for such jobs,

:42:52.:42:57.

opportunity and growth. They would bite your hand off, yet we have been

:42:58.:43:03.

pulled down into very narrow debates about what is right for West

:43:04.:43:09.

London. What is right for the UK is that we build a third runway. What

:43:10.:43:14.

is right for the UK is that we identify Heathrow as the hub airport

:43:15.:43:21.

for Western Europe. But as night red right for UK is that we have the

:43:22.:43:26.

clarity in government decision, we take a timely decision and we get on

:43:27.:43:36.

with it. Let's get it built. May I said to my honourable friend who has

:43:37.:43:41.

just spoken, I believe in getting on with things and clarity, they are

:43:42.:43:46.

good. Getting it right is better. The problem with this report is it

:43:47.:43:50.

gets it fundamentally wrong. That is why the Member for Wimbledon in a

:43:51.:43:56.

powerful intervention made the point that this Davies report, yes,

:43:57.:44:00.

certainly it produces options which are there on the table. They are not

:44:01.:44:06.

able to be delivered because it is so full of internal contradictions

:44:07.:44:11.

which have been well set out by the Member for Richmond Park and the

:44:12.:44:14.

Member for Twickenham and the Member for Brentford. Among others. It is

:44:15.:44:24.

so full of contradictions that it will be delayed time and again

:44:25.:44:29.

because it is a recipe for judicial review. Attempting to expand

:44:30.:44:37.

Heathrow will be a field day for well he'd -- well-heeled West London

:44:38.:44:40.

lawyers and won't deliver the connectivity required for this part

:44:41.:44:46.

of the country. It is a blind alley, the process is flawed, the

:44:47.:44:49.

consultation is fundamentally flawed, it is not in my judgment

:44:50.:44:54.

legally sound. The second point is that it is also economically flawed.

:44:55.:44:58.

It is clear that the case doesn't stack up, Willie Walsh doesn't make

:44:59.:45:04.

the points he has made for the sake of his own health and he is not

:45:05.:45:07.

economically illiterate... When they acquired British Midland,

:45:08.:45:18.

it was to get their hands on Heathrow slots. Having spent a vast

:45:19.:45:25.

lot of money, he does not want it to weaken his case. It is about one

:45:26.:45:34.

individual constituency or one part of London. -- it is not about. The

:45:35.:45:43.

third runway at Heathrow is but a sticking plaster which will be

:45:44.:45:48.

overcapacity and there will be a need for a fourth runway, which will

:45:49.:45:52.

not be achievable in legal or environmental terms because the

:45:53.:45:57.

Supreme Court judgment has changed the view of things and we cannot

:45:58.:46:02.

ignore that. We will have sunk a huge amount of capital cost into

:46:03.:46:07.

something that is a white elephant by the time it is open. That is not

:46:08.:46:13.

getting on with things. That is not making something that is

:46:14.:46:17.

deliverable. What I do think we need to do is to move forward. They is an

:46:18.:46:22.

alternative. Heathrow may well have been an optimal place for an airport

:46:23.:46:30.

in about 1948, 1950, but at that stage London was literally a

:46:31.:46:35.

shrinking city, its population was reduced in. No one anticipated the

:46:36.:46:39.

massive population growth that would come into London during that

:46:40.:46:44.

period. It is no longer in an appropriate place and therefore we

:46:45.:46:48.

have to look at alternatives. I am not saying we should close Heathrow

:46:49.:46:54.

down, it's an important part of the West London economy but there are

:46:55.:47:02.

more readily viewable alternatives. My constituents like many of those

:47:03.:47:07.

who wrote a letter to the Daily Telegraph today are not all from

:47:08.:47:16.

West London. But we are still affected by the flight paths. What

:47:17.:47:37.

we do need to do is get on with the option which can be most quickly

:47:38.:47:43.

delivered. None is perfect, I might not have started from here, I have

:47:44.:47:48.

sympathy for the member that perhaps if we had looked at the found this

:47:49.:47:55.

option it might have been attractive. Revisiting will not help

:47:56.:48:00.

us deliver. I take the view that the Gatwick option is the right one

:48:01.:48:04.

because it is deliverable. No doubt there will be challenges but the

:48:05.:48:10.

level of potential for legal challenges is less around Gatwick.

:48:11.:48:14.

The issues of dispute are significantly more discreet and it

:48:15.:48:18.

is therefore by Schmallenberg elite deliverable. We have a better chance

:48:19.:48:24.

of that being put forward on time and Gatwick does not exclude the

:48:25.:48:27.

possibility of other more imaginative options being developed

:48:28.:48:33.

for the future, but it does give us an immediate capacity increase in

:48:34.:48:35.

which does not prejudge other ideas going forward and neither does it

:48:36.:48:41.

involve anything like the amount of sunk cost in a potentially unviable

:48:42.:48:46.

option that the additional runway at Heathrow would. All of those are

:48:47.:48:49.

good options for opposing it and the final reason is, I fought an

:48:50.:49:01.

election in 2010 saying I was opposed to Heathrow expansion, I

:49:02.:49:06.

fought to elections in the London assembly saying I oppose Heathrow

:49:07.:49:14.

expansion, call me old-fashioned, I would rather like to try and keep my

:49:15.:49:26.

promises. I hope we can do so. Thank you for allowing me to respond. It

:49:27.:49:35.

is not the answer that I would favour and nor is it the answer that

:49:36.:49:39.

would be favoured by many of my friends, colleagues and neighbours

:49:40.:49:45.

in West Kent and indeed in Sussex. It is not the answer for the simple

:49:46.:49:50.

reason that it is the wrong answer. It is the wrong answer for us in the

:49:51.:49:54.

London area, in the south-east, it is wrong for the country and it is

:49:55.:50:00.

wrong for our economy. It is not going to answer the question of

:50:01.:50:02.

economic development, the question of replacing ship all, it will not

:50:03.:50:08.

answer the challenge that was so eloquently put by my honourable

:50:09.:50:15.

friend who spoke about the need for hub airports. It is wrong, it is

:50:16.:50:21.

wrong and just because you don't like Heathrow does not mean the

:50:22.:50:25.

answer is Gatwick. ?20 million has been spent on this report, three

:50:26.:50:30.

years has been spent on this report and it is not going to be, sorry it

:50:31.:50:36.

should not be reversed simply in a few words in this house. This has

:50:37.:50:42.

meant many years of effort and it is now the right time for us to settle

:50:43.:50:47.

down and get on with it because when you look around at the economic

:50:48.:50:52.

development of the UK, when you look around at the challenges that

:50:53.:50:55.

globalisation presents cars, I hear people who say why can't we use

:50:56.:51:01.

Skype, why can't we use video conferencing? The simple answer is

:51:02.:51:06.

we are humans, we interact, we meet, we talk. This is how we do business,

:51:07.:51:12.

communicate and it is essential we travel and part of that demands we

:51:13.:51:16.

get to the places we need to be and why I like the idea of Birmingham,

:51:17.:51:22.

while I would like to see more investment in Manchester, Glasgow

:51:23.:51:25.

and Edinburgh, the reality is that we are all lowered here to this City

:51:26.:51:34.

of London and it is here where so much of our business is done. I wish

:51:35.:51:38.

it were not so because in my own community of Tunbridge and Western

:51:39.:51:43.

morning, there is so much more opportunity for people to enjoy a

:51:44.:51:47.

proper life that is not ruined by the traffic and the smog that we all

:51:48.:51:52.

know of here. He is making a powerful case for his constituents

:51:53.:52:00.

and for the UK. New York doesn't have a hub airport. There is no

:52:01.:52:05.

other hub airport anywhere in the world restricted to three runways so

:52:06.:52:10.

there is this contradiction inside the report. New York has three

:52:11.:52:16.

airports. We could also run the New York solution in London. He makes an

:52:17.:52:20.

excellent point but even he would recognise that if one were looking

:52:21.:52:27.

at the US, we would look at around the attire 50 states and say where

:52:28.:52:37.

is that Dan of Mannan and we would say it is Chicago. Chicago O'Hare

:52:38.:52:40.

really has the appeal that productivity comes from the hub

:52:41.:52:46.

airport. I will leave it at that because I know there is enormous

:52:47.:52:50.

pressure on time but I am going to say that having had a neighbour like

:52:51.:52:54.

Gatwick for a number of years and the what a bad neighbour it is, how

:52:55.:52:59.

they have changed routes, narrow flight paths, disrupted lives,

:53:00.:53:06.

ruined asleep, including that of my most immediate constituent, my wife

:53:07.:53:15.

and how they have made the lives of many people and absolute misery. I

:53:16.:53:21.

would urge members to think really hard before rejecting the amount of

:53:22.:53:25.

work that has gone into this and rejecting this opportunity for

:53:26.:53:28.

economic growth for the UK and for us to take our rightful place back

:53:29.:53:33.

is the absolute centre of the international community. We have a

:53:34.:53:41.

duty to deliver a modern, competitive economy for ourselves

:53:42.:53:45.

and future generations and these decisions will always be tough but

:53:46.:53:48.

they need to be taken in interests of the country. The south-east and

:53:49.:53:53.

needs additional runway capacity, that is clear with the Howerd's

:53:54.:54:02.

report noting that there have been no new full-length one-way spilled

:54:03.:54:07.

in the south-east since the 1940s. While air travel growth is forecast

:54:08.:54:12.

to slow to a median estimate of 2% per year until 2050 compared to old

:54:13.:54:19.

growth rates of 5%, UK passenger numbers are forecast to increase

:54:20.:54:25.

from 225 million today to 315 million in 2030. If you overlay that

:54:26.:54:33.

date with current capacity, it shows Heathrow and Gatwick at 100th of --

:54:34.:54:46.

100% capacity. Half of the UK population uses air travel each

:54:47.:54:50.

year, that will only grow and as we have a growing international middle

:54:51.:54:54.

class I want Britain to be one of their destinations of choice. If we

:54:55.:54:58.

want to continue as the global economy that we are, these are

:54:59.:55:02.

constraints to growth. Growth that was much good news yesterday in the

:55:03.:55:07.

spending review and that growth is predicated upon our very global

:55:08.:55:15.

economy. We faced losing out as a global centre allowing

:55:16.:55:18.

point-to-point travel, particularly connecting the UK with the new

:55:19.:55:22.

dynamic economies of the world if we do not get going and we are not

:55:23.:55:25.

already lagging behind Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris. In Dubai, it

:55:26.:55:32.

ranked as the 1990 in the world in terms of international passengers.

:55:33.:55:42.

By 2011 it was fourth. We're seeing similar meteoric growth at

:55:43.:55:47.

Istanbul, rapidly becoming an international hub but I am not

:55:48.:55:51.

speaking today to suggest Heathrow is the only answer or to discount

:55:52.:55:55.

Gatwick. The operating companies with each have made their arguments

:55:56.:56:01.

but the economics of expansion of the country are obvious but what I

:56:02.:56:05.

do want to emphasise is the benefit of regional airports, particularly

:56:06.:56:08.

in the shorter and intermediate sector and I note the great benefits

:56:09.:56:16.

of Southampton of the spending review yesterday. Returning to the

:56:17.:56:20.

Heathrow versus Gatwick are given, this is the matter forward the

:56:21.:56:25.

members in those areas to overcome and there are obvious connectivity,

:56:26.:56:28.

air quality and noise issues to consider but what I am here to put

:56:29.:56:33.

on the table is a relief valve on current pressures and whatever is

:56:34.:56:37.

decided the lead time before expansion will be a decade, a decade

:56:38.:56:42.

which will fall further behind in the international aviation league

:56:43.:56:46.

and too often in the UK we are behind the curve whether it is on

:56:47.:56:50.

energy generation, railways, roads and indeed airport provision and

:56:51.:56:55.

that is a criticism of all governments in the last 30 years. To

:56:56.:56:59.

increase out his capacity and to develop and accommodate growth, we

:57:00.:57:05.

have Manston airport just 80 miles away from where we are. It is ready

:57:06.:57:11.

to go and read it to go within months to take rate only aircraft

:57:12.:57:15.

from both Heathrow and Gatwick, to the new roots in the low-cost market

:57:16.:57:19.

and why not as an image either solution to open up routes. It will

:57:20.:57:27.

never be a major hub airport but as members may know, the airport was

:57:28.:57:34.

closed a year ago and has sat unused with now an uncertain future. In

:57:35.:57:39.

both parts of Thanet there with a desire for aviation activity to

:57:40.:57:44.

recommends and whether it is the opportunities for emergency

:57:45.:57:50.

provision and if you recall a virgin incident last year, it brought

:57:51.:57:59.

Gatwick for eight hours. I bet numbers must wonder why has it not

:58:00.:58:05.

happened and very simply be local authority having been elected on a

:58:06.:58:10.

single strong policy of promising back-to-back CPO have simply given

:58:11.:58:15.

up and backed out of the deal. So there we are, a huge one-way sitting

:58:16.:58:20.

idle, well-connected can take any size of aircraft and it is doing

:58:21.:58:27.

nothing. He makes a powerful point and certainly from our experience, I

:58:28.:58:34.

am aware of the benefits Manston would bring. Fortunately,

:58:35.:58:38.

Conservative controlled Kent Council takes a much more progressive and

:58:39.:58:42.

sensible view of the value to economic growth in this area and the

:58:43.:58:47.

development of Mansell will be consistent to economic powers. I

:58:48.:58:57.

agree. It has had a bit of a mixed bag in support of Manston but it is

:58:58.:59:01.

a key driver for economic development. I give way. As my

:59:02.:59:10.

honourable friend both know, it is an emergency airstrip in the Second

:59:11.:59:13.

World War and a very long one so can take the biggest aeroplanes that

:59:14.:59:18.

could actually land there so it's quite a good idea.

:59:19.:59:24.

I thank him for his useful comments. Just to bring this to somewhat of a

:59:25.:59:34.

close, this is an appeal from this chamber for potential operators to

:59:35.:59:38.

come and look again at what Manston has, what it can offer as a regional

:59:39.:59:44.

airport that can provide in the next ten years some immediate relief from

:59:45.:59:49.

the lack of capacity that we have on our doorstep at both Heathrow and

:59:50.:59:56.

Gatwick. But really to bring this to a final, whatever the decision is

:59:57.:00:00.

for this country, Gatwick or Heathrow, the economic growth and

:00:01.:00:04.

survival of this country as a major lowball place needs solutions and,

:00:05.:00:11.

please, whatever that decision is let's get to it quickly and make it

:00:12.:00:21.

and start building. -- global place. This debate is very important to my

:00:22.:00:27.

constituents. I thank the MP for Twickenham for speaking so

:00:28.:00:32.

passionately on this subject, as she has done for many years, and today

:00:33.:00:38.

has been no exception. Let me start by saying I need no persuasion that

:00:39.:00:42.

we need another airport in the south-east, we need one soon and we

:00:43.:00:46.

need to get on and make the decision. I am entirely unconvinced

:00:47.:00:52.

by the hypothesis that written won't lose out if we don't build a new

:00:53.:01:01.

runway soon. -- written. -- Britain. The question is, for me, where we

:01:02.:01:08.

are going to build it and it is plainly a difficult political

:01:09.:01:10.

question and one the government was right to seek a report on but there

:01:11.:01:16.

is no requirement to slavishly followed the conclusions of that

:01:17.:01:21.

report. We are elected politicians, we don't outsource things to

:01:22.:01:25.

so-called experts, we consider the evidence and make decisions based on

:01:26.:01:32.

that and the views of our constituents. There are three things

:01:33.:01:37.

I want to pick up on the Davies report, the three breaks on

:01:38.:01:43.

expansion at Heathrow will significantly undermine the case for

:01:44.:01:48.

adding a third runway there. Firstly, the ban on night flights,

:01:49.:01:53.

noise pollution from Heathrow already disturbs more people in west

:01:54.:01:57.

London than any airport in Europe and to get away -- around this

:01:58.:02:04.

problem Davies has suggested a partial ban on night flights.

:02:05.:02:08.

Leaving aside the scepticism of local people but that will be

:02:09.:02:12.

honoured in the breach, it really makes little sense to us to allow an

:02:13.:02:20.

increase in airport capacity to allow flights from more destinations

:02:21.:02:23.

but to ban night flights, when that would in fact reduce connections

:02:24.:02:29.

from places like Hong Kong, Singapore and China as well as deter

:02:30.:02:35.

some low-cost carriers. The second predicate on expansion at Heathrow

:02:36.:02:39.

is the meeting of a quality targets. Davies said the targets must be met

:02:40.:02:44.

before any aeroplanes are allowed to take off from the third runway.

:02:45.:02:50.

Their pollution already kills an estimated 10,000 Londoners every

:02:51.:02:53.

year so it is right that reducing air pollution is one of the caveats

:02:54.:02:58.

for allowing additional flights from Heathrow but it is a caveat that

:02:59.:03:04.

can't be met any time soon. It is certainly not a caveat that will be

:03:05.:03:09.

met in the next few years, even on the basis that there is no expansion

:03:10.:03:18.

at Heathrow. How can it possibly the Met if we add a third runway? I

:03:19.:03:23.

can't understand how a third runway with more flights and more pollution

:03:24.:03:28.

is going to reduce the pollution we currently see at Heathrow. Gatwick

:03:29.:03:34.

has never breached any UK annual air quality limits. We have heard of

:03:35.:03:39.

political decisions that would have led to bridges and roads to nowhere

:03:40.:03:46.

in Alaska. We don't want a runway to nowhere at Heathrow because that

:03:47.:03:51.

won't solve the urgent need for additional airport capacity. The

:03:52.:03:55.

third predicate is that Parliament should legislate against a fourth

:03:56.:03:59.

runway at Heathrow. I have to say, for my constituents the fact that

:04:00.:04:05.

Davies says we have to legislate against this rather underscores the

:04:06.:04:08.

risk that that is what would happen if we did not. Legislation really

:04:09.:04:15.

provides no comfort to our constituents because all it would do

:04:16.:04:19.

would mean that the matter would have to come before this House

:04:20.:04:24.

before a runway was ever built. My constituents in Kingston and

:04:25.:04:28.

Surbiton, already in fact quite badly affected by noise from

:04:29.:04:35.

Heathrow, and we are not even under the flight path, and what this means

:04:36.:04:42.

for me and my constituents in New Maldon is that one of the flight

:04:43.:04:46.

paths goes directly over their houses and that is clear on the

:04:47.:04:52.

plan. The effect of noise disruption has been regularly raised by

:04:53.:04:58.

honourable and Right Honourable members representing constituencies

:04:59.:05:01.

around Heathrow against the third runway. May I put on the runway that

:05:02.:05:11.

the effects on my constituents were huge because of flights at Gatwick.

:05:12.:05:22.

Thank you very much for that intervention, I am sure the

:05:23.:05:26.

honourable member when she is up at Chiswick and will welcome the fact

:05:27.:05:29.

that a third runway is not going to go ahead because I feel that the

:05:30.:05:34.

legal challenges are so great that even if this approved it will not

:05:35.:05:39.

proceed. I don't forget for one moment that I have a number of

:05:40.:05:43.

constituents that work at Heathrow Airport but the fact is that if a

:05:44.:05:49.

third runway is not going to be built at Heathrow it will not close

:05:50.:05:52.

down, it will still be one of the busiest airports in the world and it

:05:53.:05:57.

will still be a big provider of jobs to people from London and my

:05:58.:06:04.

constituency. People agree that we need more airport capacity, almost

:06:05.:06:08.

everybody agrees that we need to get on and make a decision. I don't Tim

:06:09.:06:14.

Murtagh from the proposition that choosing an International Airport

:06:15.:06:19.

hub is something that we need to get on with but the solution is not a

:06:20.:06:25.

third runway at Heathrow. -- I don't demur. This debate comes the very

:06:26.:06:33.

day we have been reminded so starkly of the importance of having a

:06:34.:06:38.

growing and could -- successful UK economy. If we are to ensure that

:06:39.:06:42.

our economic legacy to future generations isn't just billions and

:06:43.:06:46.

billions of pounds of debt and make sure the future prosperity of our

:06:47.:06:52.

country isn't just based in the south-east of England but embraces

:06:53.:06:54.

all of the nations and regions, we have some very difficult but

:06:55.:06:59.

necessary decisions to take. The government, as my honourable friend

:07:00.:07:06.

for Twickenham reminded us, has made recommendations in the past about

:07:07.:07:11.

Heathrow but also Gatwick. They are fully aware on the front bench of

:07:12.:07:15.

the intense passions that this debate will incite, as so eloquently

:07:16.:07:22.

put by my honourable friend from Richmond Park. They acted with great

:07:23.:07:28.

foresight setting up an independent commission, giving them the funds

:07:29.:07:33.

and resources and time necessary and access to every conceivable expert

:07:34.:07:36.

to produce a fully worked through report and the result of that is

:07:37.:07:42.

clear, it is unequivocal and it is unanimous, a recommendation in

:07:43.:07:45.

favour of expansion at Heathrow. The economic case that they present is

:07:46.:07:52.

overwhelming. They estimate that Heathrow expansion results in a two

:07:53.:07:56.

thirds better solution than the one at Gatwick. According to analysis

:07:57.:08:06.

there is a ?50 billion gap, other results say it could be as much as

:08:07.:08:12.

?90 billion gap. Heathrow results in a far superior increase in

:08:13.:08:17.

additional long haul routes, a 20% increase in long haul destinations.

:08:18.:08:27.

Is the honourable member aware that that ?147 billion figure in the

:08:28.:08:33.

airport commissions report is challenged by the commission's own

:08:34.:08:38.

economic advisers and the compatible in a fit between Heathrow and

:08:39.:08:45.

Gatwick is very small. I have also seen the evidence of the letters

:08:46.:08:50.

from the commission on the 27th and 28th of September rebutting a number

:08:51.:08:56.

of points including that. I believe -- we have a 20% increase in long

:08:57.:09:02.

haul destinations. Of course it is important that we entertain in this

:09:03.:09:15.

place world statesman but we need planes going out daily to those

:09:16.:09:20.

countries represented by those leaders. We know we are winning the

:09:21.:09:26.

global race when we have Chinese, Indian and Brazilian CEOs gracing

:09:27.:09:33.

the streets of Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow and Newquay.

:09:34.:09:36.

Domestic flights into Heathrow have been crowded out in the last 25

:09:37.:09:41.

years. As he writes in the report, our discussions with the

:09:42.:09:46.

stakeholders in the nations and regions reveal clearly the

:09:47.:09:49.

importance they attached to direct links to Heathrow. It gives access

:09:50.:09:55.

to a substantial long haul network. I will give way. I want to remind my

:09:56.:10:01.

honourable friend of what has already been said in this House at

:10:02.:10:06.

the Davis commission themselves admit that the international long

:10:07.:10:12.

haul flights go up by only seven destinations to 2030 and further

:10:13.:10:19.

seven to 2050. They actually come down, domestic destinations, from

:10:20.:10:27.

seven to four. I quote from the chair of the GLA, ten to 12

:10:28.:10:31.

additional long haul routes by 2040, an increase of up to 20%, and they

:10:32.:10:42.

define how they set out their daily destinations, the services required

:10:43.:10:45.

by CEOs going out to visit their clients and bringing them back to

:10:46.:10:49.

the UK. This is not just about economic arguments, I accept that. A

:10:50.:10:57.

third of the report details the environmental and local community

:10:58.:11:00.

concerns. It was due to be a third of my speech but I have taken the

:11:01.:11:04.

leave from the chair that that would probably not be welcome. There are a

:11:05.:11:12.

few points, I would welcome the establishment of the International

:11:13.:11:16.

noise authority, it will be a huge benefit across the country where we

:11:17.:11:19.

suffer from aircraft noise, including areas that are rural with

:11:20.:11:30.

Laura ambient noise. -- lower. On an equality are I described the

:11:31.:11:34.

removals last campaign by the Member for Uxbridge, air quality in parts

:11:35.:11:38.

of the capital is not what we would desire and it must be improved. I do

:11:39.:11:46.

note that the Davis commission treated this seriously, I

:11:47.:11:52.

recognise, it was the points around the M4 and the M25 that the most

:11:53.:11:56.

troublesome and I understand there are practical solutions that can be

:11:57.:12:03.

made in terms of improving air commission. I thank the Davis

:12:04.:12:06.

commission to their convincing and thorough report and I look forward

:12:07.:12:10.

to the government response. If we can shave a minute of each of the

:12:11.:12:19.

front benches. I will try not to use my five minutes to give the front

:12:20.:12:23.

bench is time to do what they need to do but I would like to make some

:12:24.:12:27.

comments around competition and markets and this weird belief we

:12:28.:12:32.

have that somehow Heathrow Airport Limited, a private limited company,

:12:33.:12:38.

owned 100% by overseas shareholders, is still part of our National

:12:39.:12:42.

stakeholder infrastructure. It may form part of that function but it is

:12:43.:12:48.

not a state-owned enterprise. First a quick word on noise. Heathrow at

:12:49.:12:54.

the moment is the noisiest airport in Europe. 68 times more people are

:12:55.:13:00.

affected by noise around Heathrow, south-west London, Berkshire, than

:13:01.:13:05.

are affected by Gatwick. Even if the Davis commission assumptions are

:13:06.:13:16.

correct and we can look forward 60 years, 27 times more people are

:13:17.:13:24.

affected by an expansion at Heathrow than an expansion at Gatwick.

:13:25.:13:30.

Heathrow Airport Limited is a privately owned company and I thank

:13:31.:13:35.

the Minister for his question about the infrastructure required directly

:13:36.:13:38.

as a result of expansion, the government have said they will not

:13:39.:13:41.

be spending taxpayers money on this and if they were it will probably be

:13:42.:13:47.

?15 billion or ?20 billion with a subsidy to a private company from

:13:48.:13:51.

every person in the UK, so I am glad that is not happening, but Heathrow

:13:52.:13:59.

seem to think, hang on, the taxpayer should subsidise us. It is not

:14:00.:14:02.

accept the ball and I don't think the public would accept that. If we

:14:03.:14:06.

do decide on Heathrow, and I hope we don't because I don't think it is in

:14:07.:14:12.

anyone's interest, but if we did what we would do is further interest

:14:13.:14:18.

and existing market dominant player. In this side of the House and

:14:19.:14:23.

probably most sides that is not the kind of monopolistic practice we

:14:24.:14:28.

should be in trenching. Let's look at the economics of it. At the

:14:29.:14:33.

moment it already costs ?26 per passenger to land at Heathrow. It is

:14:34.:14:40.

not that competitive. At Gatwick it is when we look at the cost of the

:14:41.:14:45.

new runway, either at Gatwick for Heath Road, we suddenly find that it

:14:46.:14:53.

is about 30 bed -- ?30 per passenger when around the rest of Europe it is

:14:54.:15:02.

around ?18 to ?20. Let's not assume that an extra runway will be

:15:03.:15:04.

cost-effective or economically beneficial. When it comes to

:15:05.:15:09.

competition I certainly know on this side of the House that we don't wish

:15:10.:15:13.

to entrench semi-monopolies, but let's look at the evidence. When

:15:14.:15:19.

Gatwick put on a flight to Moscow the price structure from 700 --

:15:20.:15:26.

several hundred pounds down to 350. You may argue that business people

:15:27.:15:34.

are desperate for expansion at Heathrow. Utter nonsense. What CEOs

:15:35.:15:37.

are interested in is being able to get on a flight and get where they

:15:38.:15:42.

want to go. Wherever the prices are lowest and the connection quickest,

:15:43.:15:48.

that is where they will choose. I just come back to this point about

:15:49.:15:53.

projecting 60 years hence because we can't predict the weather tomorrow,

:15:54.:15:58.

the idea that economically we can protect the consequences of a

:15:59.:16:01.

decision on Heathrow 60 years hence is quite the Czar and I quote the

:16:02.:16:07.

former director of the IFS, who rubbished the hotel methodology. --

:16:08.:16:20.

quite bizarre. To guess even which routes airports will choose over the

:16:21.:16:25.

next 60 years is not possible. It seems the judgment we need to make

:16:26.:16:30.

today is also about the type of model that future aviation will

:16:31.:16:32.

undertake. We keep talking about this concert -- concept of a hub.

:16:33.:16:42.

British airways, Heathrow Airport Limited and the ministers

:16:43.:16:44.

surrounding this, I spoke to them and asked them what constitutes a

:16:45.:16:53.

hub, show me a model. The model hasn't been forthcoming. Even if we

:16:54.:17:00.

do require a hub, which we do have at them at with two runways, nobody

:17:01.:17:07.

is arguing Heathrow should close. The two runway hub will continue

:17:08.:17:09.

with more modern forms of transport. Is the issue that will not go away.

:17:10.:17:26.

Ever since I got elected to this parliament, people want to know what

:17:27.:17:31.

we think, what will happen and it is not the issue of Scottish

:17:32.:17:37.

independence, it is the second runway at Heathrow or Gatwick. I

:17:38.:17:42.

will begin by contractually team the honourable lady for two can for

:17:43.:17:49.

securing this debate. -- congratulating. She is a credit to

:17:50.:17:53.

her constituents. She focused on economic issues, on issues

:17:54.:18:00.

surrounding sound and issues surrounding the environment and I

:18:01.:18:03.

thought she spoke very well as she moved her case. I cannot mention all

:18:04.:18:08.

speakers who have contributed but there are a few I would like to

:18:09.:18:13.

focus on. It would be remiss of me not to begin with the two honourable

:18:14.:18:26.

gentleman. It is the second Mayall hustings I have sat, having done so

:18:27.:18:32.

previously in a debate on London taxis in Westminster Hall and I

:18:33.:18:37.

expect that both tents and we'll be debating this issue for some time

:18:38.:18:41.

over the coming months but they highlighted a number of concerns

:18:42.:18:45.

with the report and it is obvious from the statements they made that

:18:46.:18:48.

they are both equally passionate for London and I wish them both well as

:18:49.:18:52.

they seek to deal with this in more detail. During the honourable

:18:53.:18:58.

gentleman's remarks, the most amazing thing occurred, the

:18:59.:19:05.

honourable gentleman for Dudley came out as an ally for the Scottish

:19:06.:19:12.

National Party. He used the line, why is it all about London? That is

:19:13.:19:20.

the point that we come from, that while we understand that London is

:19:21.:19:25.

Scotland's process global financial hub, whether Scotland is part of the

:19:26.:19:32.

UK or not, we must not lose sight of issues surrounding regional airports

:19:33.:19:36.

which are returned to. -- which I will return to. The honourable lady

:19:37.:19:45.

raised some serious concerns from her constituents and did so in an

:19:46.:19:51.

excellent fashion, like the honourable gentleman from Saffron

:19:52.:19:55.

Walden who I met on my first day in this house and he gave me a few tips

:19:56.:20:00.

on how to deal with some of the members, he used the line in his

:20:01.:20:06.

statement, he said Stansted will be engraved onto his heart. I will

:20:07.:20:11.

avoid because it is indeed the obvious joke about Tories having

:20:12.:20:16.

hearts but he gave a very thorough and historic analysis of the wider

:20:17.:20:20.

airport expansion debate and the debate we have had this afternoon is

:20:21.:20:26.

all be better for it. My honourable friend who has had to leave early

:20:27.:20:34.

stands up for and praises crosscut airport which I think is becoming my

:20:35.:20:38.

second home over the last six months, which I am assured the whole

:20:39.:20:44.

chamber will wish to join the in congratulating being crowned UK

:20:45.:20:50.

airport of the year and he rightly asks the government and I hope the

:20:51.:20:53.

Minister will do this in his remarks in closing, he asked the government

:20:54.:20:57.

to clear up any confusion as to whether or not this will be deemed

:20:58.:21:03.

as an English only matter. The honourable gentleman for Chelmsford

:21:04.:21:07.

who gave us new members the induction in this very room when we

:21:08.:21:13.

were first elected gave an excellent speech and he illustrated the

:21:14.:21:17.

frustration which is clear from all sides of the house which plagues

:21:18.:21:22.

this whole issue. He did it in an authoritative manner, of course as a

:21:23.:21:28.

former transport minister himself. The honourable gentleman for Arundel

:21:29.:21:36.

and South Downs really against spoke with authority and demanded that we

:21:37.:21:40.

treat this as a national issue and that that should be what guides us

:21:41.:21:45.

as opposed to local concerns, but I have to say that local concerns must

:21:46.:21:49.

be given consideration although I would agree it is an issue of

:21:50.:21:54.

national importance. It was over this very issue that the current

:21:55.:21:59.

Shadow Chancellor once protested in this chamber using the mace that

:22:00.:22:05.

stands before us and while we may be the noble savages, I have no

:22:06.:22:10.

ambition to do so this evening. We will hear Labour's remarks in a few

:22:11.:22:17.

moments time but I want to give some comfort to the Shadow Chancellor who

:22:18.:22:21.

unfortunately is not here this evening, but I found a quote from

:22:22.:22:28.

one Chairman Mao who once said, to rebel is justified. The honourable

:22:29.:22:31.

gentleman of the Treasury bench still has his copy of the book. The

:22:32.:22:38.

honourable gentleman for Oxbridge, where to begin? He spoke with his

:22:39.:22:43.

usual passion and authority in a good nature but rather surprisingly,

:22:44.:22:50.

I am delighted he believes -- agrees with us that this is not only an

:22:51.:22:55.

English matter and he has aligned himself with the interests of the

:22:56.:23:00.

Scottish National Party as far as this debate is concerned and for

:23:01.:23:04.

that we are grateful. My fellow transport committee member is

:23:05.:23:15.

normally a member from the south of the border rather than the North but

:23:16.:23:21.

he is a strong supporter of Blackpool Airport in his

:23:22.:23:27.

constituency. He did so today. He again mentioned the importance of

:23:28.:23:30.

securing regional connectivity and that is something I think the

:23:31.:23:35.

government could do and something we will be pressing for through public

:23:36.:23:39.

service obligations and I would be grateful if the Minister would

:23:40.:23:43.

address that this evening, because that is not just a concern for us in

:23:44.:23:47.

Scotland but in other parts of England such as the north-east as

:23:48.:23:52.

well. The Scottish Government earlier this year in its programme

:23:53.:23:57.

for government announced the setup of three innovation and investment

:23:58.:24:01.

centres across Europe, one in Brussels, one in Dublin and one in

:24:02.:24:07.

London. That gives Scottish businesses an opportunity to do

:24:08.:24:10.

business on a world stage which we have not always been good at but

:24:11.:24:16.

that gives us an opportunity to do that here in London. It is our

:24:17.:24:21.

closest major financial centre and this decision is one we will analyse

:24:22.:24:27.

forensically. At the room at we remain agnostic and we seek to get

:24:28.:24:31.

the best possible deal for Scotland but give the station is there and

:24:32.:24:40.

the government must make a decision. Can I congratulate the honourable

:24:41.:24:43.

member for token for securing the debate and thank the back bench

:24:44.:24:47.

business committee for allowing it to happen. All the members who have

:24:48.:25:02.

spoken, I thank. I think it came out 12 against Heathrow antenna broadly

:25:03.:25:13.

pro-Heathrow. One mentioned for the honourable member for Richmond Park

:25:14.:25:20.

and the one for tooting who will be debating this issue a lot. I look

:25:21.:25:29.

forward to what is said. I hope to hear from the Transport Secretary.

:25:30.:25:37.

We would have appreciated a report back to day but it looks like we

:25:38.:25:42.

will have to wait for that one. The aviation sector is the key pillar of

:25:43.:25:46.

our economy but I hope the house will forgive me as I just say

:25:47.:25:51.

something else, which is it is an industry that makes our world a

:25:52.:25:56.

smaller place. It fosters direct face to face understanding between

:25:57.:26:00.

people across the globe in no way no other industry or mode of travel

:26:01.:26:05.

ever has, and it is for those reasons that aviation is a central

:26:06.:26:09.

target for those who want to kill and terror rise, to undermine that

:26:10.:26:14.

understanding and to spread fear amongst anyone going about their

:26:15.:26:19.

daily lives. We were reminded about that in the Sharma was shaped

:26:20.:26:24.

tragedy just a few weeks ago and it underlines why the decisions that

:26:25.:26:28.

Parliament was wrestling with this morning are not only provide for our

:26:29.:26:33.

country as a whole but particularly those working in aviation and it is

:26:34.:26:37.

why we pay tribute today to all those who work in the civil aviation

:26:38.:26:42.

sector, on the ground and in the air. As I said, aviation is an

:26:43.:26:49.

industry vital to the economy. ?50 million in GDP, about 1 million jobs

:26:50.:26:55.

related to aviation and about 8 million in tax revenue. We also know

:26:56.:27:04.

that aviation accounts for around 6% of the UK's greenhouse gas emissions

:27:05.:27:11.

and there are issues of noise and although the false wagon emissions

:27:12.:27:17.

scandal originated in automotive innovation, people are demanding

:27:18.:27:23.

transparency in air quality commissions also. That's why the

:27:24.:27:28.

work is important, bringing together airlines, airports, aircraft

:27:29.:27:39.

manufacturers and unions. The introduction and development of

:27:40.:27:46.

sustainable few would make a major contribution to reducing emissions.

:27:47.:27:50.

Aircraft technology, we have heard of the new, lighter aircraft

:27:51.:27:54.

possibly taking new long haul flights, new initiatives in airspace

:27:55.:28:01.

managing, airports also, even though they have seen passenger numbers

:28:02.:28:06.

increased by more than 5%, their carbon footprint has fallen by

:28:07.:28:11.

almost 3%. Continuing and aviation agenda is fundamentally important to

:28:12.:28:17.

jobs and skills in the UK. Turning to the issue of airport capacity,

:28:18.:28:22.

the ministers promised a response before Christmas and we await to see

:28:23.:28:28.

what the minister has to say. Our job as the opposition is to

:28:29.:28:31.

scrutinise that response and we have been clear about the four tests are

:28:32.:28:37.

guests which we will measure it. -- against. Two of those are about the

:28:38.:28:44.

environmental challenges put forward for an additional runway capacity

:28:45.:28:48.

either at Heathrow or Gatwick. Howell for the UK's climate change

:28:49.:28:54.

obligations can still be met and how local noise and environment impact

:28:55.:28:57.

can be managed and mineralised. Davies said the expansion of

:28:58.:29:05.

Heathrow had to be contingent on the latter being addressed. --

:29:06.:29:15.

minimalise. Davies himself emphasised the choices that

:29:16.:29:18.

government make will make the difference to what can be achieved.

:29:19.:29:23.

For example or noise, airports need to know whether the framework is to

:29:24.:29:26.

concentrate noise geographically or whether it is about dispersing it

:29:27.:29:32.

and what ever it decides, why cannot the government agreed in principle

:29:33.:29:37.

to decommission's proposal for an independent aviation noise authority

:29:38.:29:42.

with statutory consultation rights? And for the expansion of Gatwick or

:29:43.:29:46.

Heathrow to help rather than hinder, the UK meeting our carbon or air

:29:47.:29:54.

quality targets, that requires a big shift, greater numbers of people

:29:55.:30:00.

travelling, that has to be transformed so my first question is

:30:01.:30:04.

what will be the actions it will take to ensure its conclusions on

:30:05.:30:09.

airport expansion are compatible with our environmental obligations?

:30:10.:30:15.

Our other tests are looking at clear answers from the government on what

:30:16.:30:19.

they decide on Davies and how they will meet the capacity challenge.

:30:20.:30:24.

Capacity in the South East needs reviewing and that's why Labour

:30:25.:30:28.

supported the establishment of the commission but there are very

:30:29.:30:32.

different answers from Heathrow, Gatwick and others about the kind of

:30:33.:30:36.

capacity needed and how them that informs the decision of if and where

:30:37.:30:42.

a new runway. What are the government's conclusions about the

:30:43.:30:45.

differing decisions that differing decisions will have on short-haul

:30:46.:30:52.

capacity, long haul capacity, regional air connectivity, transfer

:30:53.:30:55.

traffic and the growth of point-to-point and have traffic?

:30:56.:31:00.

That brings me to Labour's fourth test that we asked the Minister to

:31:01.:31:04.

address. This cannot be an issue simply about how the air travel

:31:05.:31:11.

services serve well all badly the south-east. The issue of

:31:12.:31:14.

connectivity to other parts of the UK is vital as is seen this as an

:31:15.:31:21.

opportunity for rebalancing growth across the regions and while they

:31:22.:31:26.

crashed in of a new one-way is a key decision for UK aviation, it is not

:31:27.:31:30.

the only one and whatever the decision made, it will take eight,

:31:31.:31:37.

nine, ten years to implement, longer probably if there are legal

:31:38.:31:38.

challenges. Members Aviation

:31:39.:31:46.

will not stand still during that time. This misses will still need

:31:47.:31:53.

new routes to compete with existing and emerging markets, new aircraft

:31:54.:32:01.

will offer new possibilities for the economic civics banned a point to

:32:02.:32:05.

point travel, and if we are serious about rebalancing our economy we

:32:06.:32:10.

must make sure those routes are not simply dependent on what happens in

:32:11.:32:14.

the south-east. Birmingham, Manchester, East Midlands are

:32:15.:32:21.

international gateways to the UK and deserve to be treated as such. Will

:32:22.:32:26.

the Minister put the upgrading of the West Anglia lines in the next

:32:27.:32:32.

rail control investment period to allow, for example, Stansted to

:32:33.:32:35.

achieve its potential in the south-east? Will he confirm that

:32:36.:32:39.

Manchester Airport will be linked directly to HS2 and having accepted

:32:40.:32:46.

Labour's plan for a national infrastructure commission will he

:32:47.:32:51.

endorsed the plan for it to examine the long-term road and rail needs of

:32:52.:32:55.

airport and other transport gateways throughout the country, not simply

:32:56.:33:00.

the south-east, and when can we expect the promised review of the

:33:01.:33:05.

future of passenger duty in terms of its purpose and how options to

:33:06.:33:09.

reform it can improve competitiveness at different

:33:10.:33:12.

airports and their devolved environment? Let me congratulate my

:33:13.:33:20.

honourable friend the member is for Twickenham and Richmond Park and

:33:21.:33:22.

also the honourable member for Brentford and I is all worth, my

:33:23.:33:29.

long-time cycling partner, and the backbench business committee for

:33:30.:33:32.

securing this debate. We have heard some remarkable and passionate

:33:33.:33:36.

speeches and I look forward to the mayoral hustings next year. In

:33:37.:33:43.

contrast I think my speech will be unremarkable because at this point

:33:44.:33:48.

in the process the government is engaged in a dispassionate,

:33:49.:33:51.

clear-headed analysis of the Davis report. We set out to take a fresh,

:33:52.:33:59.

independent and competence of look at current and future aviation

:34:00.:34:12.

needs. Davies's work looks at how to improve our infrastructure including

:34:13.:34:16.

in the regions. It is a subject of immense importance to the country

:34:17.:34:21.

and to many of our constituents. I am grateful to everybody who has

:34:22.:34:26.

contributed to an excellent debate. The UK aviation industry employs

:34:27.:34:31.

around 230,000 people directly and many more indirectly, for example in

:34:32.:34:34.

the supply chain. Tax revenues from the industry are ?8.7 billion a year

:34:35.:34:43.

and are freight carries goods worth over ?100 billion a year, more than

:34:44.:34:53.

40% of non-EU trade by value. That is -- what is often overlooked is

:34:54.:34:56.

that we are incredibly well connected. We have -- the number of

:34:57.:35:03.

passengers using non-London airports has increased by over a third since

:35:04.:35:08.

the year 2000 and London remains one of the world? Best connected cities,

:35:09.:35:20.

with weekly or more often -- Air Canada activities one of the major

:35:21.:35:25.

reasons why three quarters of 4500 companies have offices in London.

:35:26.:35:29.

The restraints we have seen today are in fact a symptom of Britain's

:35:30.:35:35.

success, the aviation industry's success in attracting new business,

:35:36.:35:40.

therefore maintaining UK and international connectivity is

:35:41.:35:43.

important if we have to remain growing as an economy and we are

:35:44.:35:48.

focusing on a wide range of issues, not only capacity, that supports the

:35:49.:35:54.

aviation sector. Airspace is a critical part of our infrastructure

:35:55.:35:59.

so it is vital we work to increase capacity, improve safety and

:36:00.:36:02.

mitigate the impact on the environment. The CAA's future

:36:03.:36:08.

airspace strategy is designed to do this and the government support for

:36:09.:36:12.

this initiative. The government is offering support to airports for

:36:13.:36:19.

improving service access. The Airports Commission worked for two

:36:20.:36:22.

and a half year and consulted widely before coming to its conclusions. As

:36:23.:36:27.

we are all aware it recommended that additional runway capacity is needed

:36:28.:36:32.

in the south of England and the optimal solution was that this

:36:33.:36:37.

should take the form of a new Northwest runway at Heathrow. It

:36:38.:36:42.

also recommended a package of mitigation measures including a

:36:43.:36:47.

night flight ban, noise levy and the community engagement board to name a

:36:48.:36:50.

few. The fullness of mitigation measures is on page ten and 11 of

:36:51.:36:55.

the report. The government has been reviewing the findings of the

:36:56.:36:58.

report, though we have yet to make any decision. I now tend to address

:36:59.:37:08.

the key points raised today why a number of members. -- by a number. A

:37:09.:37:13.

number of colleagues were critical of the airport commission report.

:37:14.:37:19.

The department has received a number of presentations critical of a

:37:20.:37:23.

number of issues in the report, including air quality, noise,

:37:24.:37:29.

service access, economic benefits, deliverability, financing and

:37:30.:37:32.

capacity and connectivity. We have been taking into account the matters

:37:33.:37:37.

raised as part of a wide -- wider programme of work considering the

:37:38.:37:43.

recommendations. We content -- we continue to consider whether the

:37:44.:37:46.

issues expressed have already been considered why the Airports

:37:47.:37:50.

Commission or affect the overall ballad of the of the

:37:51.:37:54.

recommendations. The issue of noise of course is very contentious and

:37:55.:37:57.

the commission is taking into account the noise impacts for each

:37:58.:38:02.

scheme, including potential mitigations. We also need to

:38:03.:38:05.

recognise that aircraft are becoming less noisy and more fuel efficient,

:38:06.:38:11.

particularly those who adopted Rolls-Royce engines. We understand

:38:12.:38:14.

the concerns of local communities about noise and we have carefully

:38:15.:38:21.

examined the evidence provided by the Airports Commission including

:38:22.:38:26.

potential mitigation issues. The government takes the issue of air

:38:27.:38:30.

quality very seriously. It is a complex issue and indeed DEFRA have

:38:31.:38:36.

just consulted on their draft action plan. As we know of course from the

:38:37.:38:42.

discussion we have had over Volkswagen, we have a number of

:38:43.:38:46.

issues in connection with other transport modes which impact on air

:38:47.:38:51.

quality and many of the robins around major airports are as much

:38:52.:38:55.

due to traffic around the airports as aviation itself. We are carrying

:38:56.:39:01.

out a detailed analysis of the Airports Commission report and any

:39:02.:39:04.

decision regarding future airport capacity will take into account the

:39:05.:39:08.

overall government plan to improve air quality and its commitment to

:39:09.:39:13.

comply with European union air quality standards. The honourable

:39:14.:39:19.

member for Ealing specifically raised the issue of CO2 emissions.

:39:20.:39:24.

The government takes UK climate change commitments very seriously

:39:25.:39:28.

and is committed to meeting them. The commission engaged with the

:39:29.:39:31.

Committee on Climate Change when undertaking its extensive work on

:39:32.:39:35.

greenhouse gas emissions, including the impact of expansion under two

:39:36.:39:42.

different Wallasey networks. The government is examining the evidence

:39:43.:39:45.

and any future decision about capacity will take into account the

:39:46.:39:50.

UK climate change policy and our obligations. I am hope we can get

:39:51.:39:56.

global agreement on a global marketplace mechanism for trading

:39:57.:40:00.

carbon, which will be the ultimate goal to ensure that aviation plays

:40:01.:40:03.

its part in reducing carbon emissions. In terms of the

:40:04.:40:09.

mitigation measures package, the members for Twickenham and Brentford

:40:10.:40:16.

raised these, the airport commission recommended that should the Heathrow

:40:17.:40:19.

Northwest runway scheme be taken forward the package of measures to

:40:20.:40:24.

be put in place to limit the impacts of expansion on communities

:40:25.:40:26.

including the introduction of a noise envelope, a ban on night

:40:27.:40:32.

flights between 11:30pm and 6am and a commitment that no fourth runway

:40:33.:40:37.

will be taken forward at Heathrow. We will ensure that if the decision

:40:38.:40:41.

is that there is a need for additional capacity and that there

:40:42.:40:47.

should be a new runway whatever its location there should be a package

:40:48.:40:51.

of measures to balance that in the interests of communities. I haven't

:40:52.:40:56.

been able to touch on every point raised in the debate but many of the

:40:57.:41:01.

issues raised today are the priorities and concerns of the

:41:02.:41:04.

government. Could I thank all of those who contributed to this

:41:05.:41:08.

excellent debate. We live in an ever-changing world and we have to

:41:09.:41:13.

get this decision right, recognising its impact. We have heard a wide

:41:14.:41:19.

range of views representing a wide range of people and we don't have

:41:20.:41:26.

want to hide the challenge of airport expansion. The Davies

:41:27.:41:28.

Commission has earned its right to close scrutiny and discussion. May I

:41:29.:41:41.

thank every member of the House who has contributed to this debate, it

:41:42.:41:46.

is a matter of national interest, I thank the Scottish colleagues in

:41:47.:41:50.

particular. I thank the Secretary of State for taking time from his busy

:41:51.:41:56.

schedule to listen to our debate. Yes, the aviation industry in the UK

:41:57.:42:00.

is very important to our economy. I would point out, though, what the

:42:01.:42:05.

Member for Saffron Walden has said, were the Davies Commission ruins its

:42:06.:42:14.

own logic. -- were. I thank the Minister for saying airport

:42:15.:42:20.

connectivity is important and all of the members who talked about

:42:21.:42:25.

regional connectivity. I greatly appreciate what the Minister said

:42:26.:42:29.

about mitigation measures for the Southeast but what I would ask him,

:42:30.:42:34.

like many other members of this House, is if they can be done for a

:42:35.:42:38.

third runway please can you do it for the two one -- runways extant

:42:39.:42:44.

because it is not tolerable and a quasi night ban is not enough. If we

:42:45.:42:53.

all going to attack climate change and the an international climate

:42:54.:43:01.

change industry leader we have to be at the higher levels. I absolutely

:43:02.:43:09.

agree this is a long-term programme, whatever option the government

:43:10.:43:14.

chooses, and in the meantime we have to think about our capacity right

:43:15.:43:19.

now. I thank all of the honourable members and members of the House who

:43:20.:43:23.

have contributed, I would remind the government of the promise made in

:43:24.:43:30.

2009, no ifs, no buts, no third runway. Thank you. The question is

:43:31.:43:36.

that this House has considered the final report of the Airports

:43:37.:43:39.

Commission. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary,

:43:40.:43:48.

"no". The ayes... I have never heard such enthusiasm for the end of a

:43:49.:43:54.

debate after such a lively debate. As many as are of the opinion, say

:43:55.:43:59.

"aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it, the ayes have it.

:44:00.:44:03.

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