Browse content similar to 26/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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backbenchers have had the opportunity to question him in 103 | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
minutes so I hope colleagues feel that has been an adequate | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
opposition. Mr Chris Grayling. If I can give the camera crew house the | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
business for next week. Monday, topically, we will have a general | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
debate on the UK role in the Middle East. Tuesday, we have the remaining | :00:19. | :00:30. | |
stages of the immigration Bill followed by a motion to approve a | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
statutory instrument relating to Northern Ireland 's followed by a | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
debate on a motion relating to the high-speed rail London to West | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
Midlands Bill. Wednesday, an opposition day on a subject to be | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
announced. Thursday, the second reading of the charities protection | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
Bill. Friday, a private members will day. The provisional business for | :00:55. | :01:02. | |
the week afterwards... Monday, the remaining stages of the devolution | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
Bill. Tuesday, time set aside for consideration of Lords amendments | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
followed by a debate on a motion relating to European measures. | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
Wednesday, a further opposition day. Thursday, a further day for business | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
to be nominated by the Backbench Business Committee. Friday, the | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
House not sitting. I should say that the business in Westminster Hall for | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
the 7th of December and 3rd of December... On the third, the | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
fisheries policy, the seventh will look at the use of nicotine on | :01:40. | :01:50. | |
crops. I'm warmly commend them on wet Syria, it is commendable. They | :01:51. | :01:58. | |
are weighty matters so it is wrong for the government to bounce the | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
House into a decision. Next week's business has been announced but I | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
thought I heard the Prime Minister earlier saying he wanted a debate | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
and vote as soon as possible, and before he was going to visit the | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
Foreign Affairs Committee, and I can only presume that that means next | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
week. I hope the Leader of the House will take on board that the House | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
needs proper notice when we have debates of that kind and it is | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
inappropriate to hide that. 103 people have spoken in this. There | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
may be 103 people speaking in this debate so we need proper time said | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
people are not just making two minutes beaches on a matter that | :02:43. | :02:44. | |
really matters to our constituents. The final thing, I hope that the | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
government will table a motion in plenty of time for members to | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
consider any amendments they want to table so they do not have to be | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
manuscript did on the day. Mr Speaker, just like you, I came to | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
work this morning carrying a sword as I am delighted to announce that | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
last night, thanks to the efforts of the honourable member for North | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
Antrim and for Aberdeen North and for myself, the Commons rested the | :03:17. | :03:24. | |
mighty Wilkinson Sword of their Lordships in a charity swimming | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
championship for the Northern Ireland charity Hope for You. | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
Talking of double-edged swords, I ask the leader whether he could tell | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
us the dates of recesses next year. -- Youth. He got on this and said it | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
is far more important for the government to get it business | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
through rather than going on holiday, so I am going to ask a | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
different question today. Instead of telling us when he we will not be | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
sitting, can you tell us when we will be sitting? We will work out | :03:59. | :04:06. | |
the recess from that! The Chancellor said something yesterday which was | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
interesting. The improvements in the nation's finances are down to two | :04:10. | :04:18. | |
things. Well, I agree. Smoke and mirrors. That is what it is. I first | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
predicted that the government would do a U-turn on working tax credit in | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
October and the leader, yet again, went pompous on us and moaned about | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
a constitutional crisis stalking the land. Now the Chancellor has | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
accepted my advice. Can the leader clarify two things? Firstly, what is | :04:41. | :04:52. | |
the status of the tax credits, thresholds that were voted down in | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
the house of lords and are hanging around in the air? Will he bring | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
them back in a different shape or what? Secondly, according to the | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
resolution foundation, low income families on Universal Credit will be | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
worse off by ?1300 in 2020, and according to the IFF, in the last 30 | :05:12. | :05:19. | |
minutes, the Spending Review will leave 2.6 million families ?1600 | :05:20. | :05:26. | |
worse off next year. -- IFS. It is time the government owned up. Can we | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
have a debate about the sale of UK national asset? Since the Chancellor | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
came to office, he has sold off the student loans book, the Royal mail, | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
the future of nuclear power, and he announced that he is going to sell | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
off the land Registry, the Ordnance Survey, the air-traffic control, and | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
the green investment bank. I have a little book here which I am going to | :05:51. | :05:58. | |
give to the Leader of the House. He can come to my study later. It is a | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
copy of the Shakespeare play Richard the second. I am sure you will | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
remember the wonderful speech, this royal throne of Kings, the demi- | :06:10. | :06:17. | |
paradise, but will they ever remember that the speech ends, is | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
now leased out like to tenements or pelting farm? Shakespeare predicted | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
it 400 years ago that there are going to sell off all our national | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
asset, and there we have it! Can we have a debate on the Chancellor's | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
roast on page 76, I am sure you have seen it, -- boast, that the | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
government has taken some steps to reduce the cost of politics, but | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
that is not true, is it? Actually, the cost and the number of special | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
advisers who are purely party political appointees, has driven | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
dramatically since 2010. In 2009, there were 74 costing ?5.9 million, | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
and in 2014, there were 100 and three, costing ?8.4 million. The | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
Prime Minister promised before he became Prime Minister that no | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
Minister of his would have more than one special adviser, but the Leader | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
of the House has two! The Chief Whip is two. The Chancellor alone has at | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
least ten special advisers. We don't know the total because the | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
government won't publish a list that in 2014, it was 29 more at a cost of | :07:37. | :07:45. | |
?2.5 million more a year and on top of that, the Prime Minister has | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
appointed members of the House of Lords faster than any other Prime | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
Minister in history. 200, costing ?2.9 million a year. The annual Tory | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
party invoice to the taxpayer has gone up by ?5.4 million. Yesterday | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
the Chancellor said he is going to cut the money provided to opposition | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
parties to all opposition parties by 19%. What goes around comes around | :08:13. | :08:22. | |
is, I would remind the Leader of the House. Canada leader confirmed that | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
this is not up to Chancellor, it is up to this house. It was done on | :08:26. | :08:34. | |
cross-party consultation. Was there any discussion with the opposition | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
parties? Was there any discussion with the finance committee of this | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
House? Did the Leader of the House know about this proposal? Labour, | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
when we were in government, when never afraid of scrutiny so we | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
introduced short money in the first place, and we increase it in 1997, | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
and that meant that the Tory party received, it claimed, 45 when ?7 | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
million from the taxpayer between 1997 and 2010. Will the Tory party | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
now be taking and 19% cut in the cost of special advisers? If not, | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
won't voters be right to conclude that this is a naked attempt to | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
hobble the opposition and rigged the system? It is a partisan measure | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
being introduced because the government hates scrutiny. Two weeks | :09:27. | :09:35. | |
ago, the Leader of the House urged all members to do the online fire | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
safety training. I have done it, has he done it yet? Yes! | :09:40. | :09:52. | |
LAUGHTER Can I start by thanking the shadow leader for his kind words | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
about the Prime Minister. It was a measured and sensible debate, this | :10:01. | :10:02. | |
is a serious matter which should cross party divides for all of us to | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
consider what is in the interests of our nation. The tone was excellent | :10:09. | :10:15. | |
and it was right and proper. I am sure everybody would agree that it | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
is right and proper for the Prime Minister to die just the comments | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
from the house this morning before deciding what further action to | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
take, and to give the foreign effects Select Committee a moment to | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
take a look at this. We will come back to this House shortly and the | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
Prime Minister will make clear his intentions in the very near future. | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
Mr Speaker, I paid tribute to weeks ago to the musical skills of the | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
honourable gentleman who speaks for the Scottish Nationalists. He is | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
clearly not alone in this place in showing such skills. I would like to | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
pay tribute to the members of the Parliamentary choir for their | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
polished performance at Cadogan hall last night. Last night, there was | :10:59. | :11:06. | |
harmony and melody. Following a request from the shadow leader, I do | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
try to mark important anniversaries on a Thursday morning, and I have | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
two for him. After yesterday, it will have great resonance for him. | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
It is exactly 30 years since Neil Kinnock began his purge of militant | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
infiltrators from the Labour Party. By coincidence, it is 80 years ago | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
this month that the Chinese Communist Party and its new leader. | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
Chairman Mao. The man who became one of the most brutal dictators of | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
modern times. After yesterday, I wonder which the shadow leader will | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
celebrate the most. You talked of the Wilkinson Sword, and I | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
congratulate him for that. I did not see his Twitter feed that I saw him | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
carrying a 3 foot long sword into the macro re-this morning. Given his | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
record in knifing Tony Blair, does this mark another assassination? He | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
asked a question of special advisers. -- House. Firstly, the | :12:09. | :12:20. | |
cost of politics is falling. We have cut advertising, support for | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
ministerial offices, but he made the ports point about short money. Sure | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
money has risen by 50% since 2010. That is after the changes set out | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
yesterday and it has simply returned to the level it was set out -- to | :12:35. | :12:42. | |
the level that was set out in 2010. He asked about the Autumn Statement | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
and used the joke about smoke and mirrors. We heard the joke yesterday | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
from the honourable member for Cardiff North. Sorry, Cardiff West! | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
What he doesn't say is that you want a two-day debate on the Autumn | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
Statement. After yesterday, I am sure they have heard quite enough. | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
He asked about the tax credits changes. The statutory instrument is | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
not being moved as the Chancellor of the Exchequer set out. We are not | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
pursuing those proposals. He asked about working families in 2020. The | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
introduction of the national living wage means that for somebody on | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
today's minimum wage, by 2020 they will be earning nearly ?5,000 a year | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
more than they are today. He raised the question of the sale of assets. | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
I would simply say that as a time when we are looking to build a | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
nuclear industry in this country, I look back to when the last | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
government sold a British nuclear power station firm overseas at a | :13:45. | :13:51. | |
time when we were just thinking about building new nuclear power | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
stations, so I will take no lessons about the sale of assets from a | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
party that takes steps without strategy or thought, and one of the | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
reasons we have this challenge is because for 13 years, they did | :14:06. | :14:16. | |
nothing about it. On recess dates, the prime concern for this | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
Government is to get its business through the House. We will seek | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
appropriate recess time when we can but now I am concerned about putting | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
through the manifesto on which we were rightly elected last May. Mr | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
Speaker, the most egregious unreformed procedures in this House | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
relates to private members bills. The conduct of this place and the | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
execution of those bills is simply appalling, Mr Speaker. Can I urge | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
the leader of the house to join with the procedure committee to try and | :14:48. | :14:56. | |
find a way forward? The honourable gentleman for Shipley is now my | :14:57. | :15:05. | |
Moriarty if I am Sherlock Holmes. It has ever been referred to as | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
Moriarty before! But I take the point that is chair of the | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
procedures committee he is better placed than anyone. I am always | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
happy to appear in front of his committee and discuss these issues | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
with him. Will come out with wise words about how this should be | :15:22. | :15:30. | |
handled in future. Can I thank the leader of the house about next | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
week's business? I have not got Chairman Mao or Shakespeare to offer | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
him. Can we get back to the debate on Syria? We are concerned that | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
there should be firm proposals about when it should be brought to the | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
House. 103 members spoke in the statement and we have to find | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
sufficient time. Proper time needs to be allocated to Members of | :16:00. | :16:01. | |
Parliament to bring forward the very serious concerns that they may | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
have. Can the leader of the house at least state today that we would have | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
a minimum of two days to debate any Syrian action before a vote is | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
taken? I know there are talks about smoke and mirrors following | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
yesterday's autumn spending review. We very much welcome the grinding | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
U-turn that has been committed when it comes to tax credits but we are | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
concerned about what is proposed further down the line. IFS have | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
already started to raise concerns about what is proposed in terms of | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
what will happen when universal credit is put into place and the | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
other reforms at the sharp end of housing benefit. We know that the | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
role of universal credit has been less than successful. Shambles is | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
the word that could be associated with it. Can we have some statement | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
or debate about where we are on universal credit and how this will | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
impact on the plans for tax credits? It would be useful to have some kind | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
of statement from the Government on that. Something very dramatic | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
happened in the House of Lords this week. Nothing very dramatic usually | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
happens but for some reason it did. What they said was that the Scotland | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
Bill should be delayed until the critical fiscal framework is agreed | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
to. The last Conservative Secretary of State put it like this, like | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
purchasing a car without looking at the engine. If Scotland Bill without | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
a sufficient fiscal framework. How is the Government responding to | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
these calls and what efforts is the Government making to get that engine | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
into place? Another breaking news story is on immigration figures. Net | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
immigration figures have reached a record high of 336,000, according to | :17:48. | :17:55. | |
the Office for National Statistics. We question the Government's ability | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
to get migration down to the tens of thousands. We are living in a | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
interconnected, globalised world, so there was almost an impossibility | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
from the outset. The Government is likely to raise its rhetoric when it | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
comes to migration and we hope it does not conflict it with response | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
pretty on duty when it comes to Syrian refugees. We hope there will | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
be no consolation on this, especially when we go down to | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
further bombing in Syria, where our obligations will be further | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
increased. A statement, especially from the bellicose backbenchers, | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
that there will be no consolation between migration figures and the | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
treatment of refugees is required. Can I extend to him an invitation to | :18:44. | :18:53. | |
come to our gig on Tuesday at the Strangers bar. If he wants to make a | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
contribution he would be welcome to that as well. I would be delighted | :18:58. | :19:05. | |
to pop into the Strangers bar next Tuesday. We are going off at seven | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
o'clock anyway. I don't know what time they are starting but I would | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
be delighted to hear him on that night in full flow. Seriously, I | :19:14. | :19:20. | |
have set out the debate is quite clearly over the next two weeks. I | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
would have to return it out to a supplementary business statement. | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
Once people have had the chance to consider the comments on all sides | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
today. I cannot give an indication of the timetable but if it takes | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
place in the next couple of weeks, I will come back and make a further | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
statement to the House. On the issue of tax credits and universal credit, | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
may I simply remind him that the move from the national minimum wage | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
to the national living wage will for Scots as well deliver by 2020 and | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
increasing income of almost ?5,000? That will make a fundamental | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
difference to people on low incomes in this country. It is something we | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
should all welcome and I believe it will transform the lives of many | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
people on the lowest incomes. On the Scotland Bill, the delay, just | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
because somebody proposes something does not mean it will actually | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
happen. There was a commitment to deliver it as quickly as possible. | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
I'm delighted that Lord Smith has accepted that the Smith commission | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
report is being implemented in full. I await to see what powers the | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
Scottish National Party actually uses because until now it has talked | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
a lot about powers but has shown little sign of using them. On the | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
issue of immigration and Syrian refugees, we have set out very | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
clearly our obligations internationally to help Syrian | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
refugees. We are taking 20,000 into this country but crucially we are | :20:45. | :20:52. | |
doing what other nations are not doing, and that is providing support | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
on the ground to the 7 million refugees in camps near Syria, where | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
the need is a cute and they have not made their way to Europe. There is a | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
very real need to provide support for those people on the ground and | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
we are doing more than almost anybody else to look after them. | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
Finally, Mr Speaker, I was deeply disappointed to see that he missed | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
out on the prize for the leading Scot at Westminster. Had we had a | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
vote, we would have put a tick in his box! I am keen to accommodate | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
interest but we have had a very heavy exchange before this, and | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
rightly so, but there are more than 20 honourable members who wish to | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
contribute in the debate on airports. Therefore these exchanges | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
must conclude no later than 2 o'clock. I hope colleagues will | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
tailor their contributions accordingly. Our skyline is | :21:50. | :21:59. | |
dominated by the power station that provide enough electricity for | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
roughly half a million homes. With the announcement last week that | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
coal-fired power stations would be phased out by 2025, can we have a | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
debate in Government time to discuss the conversion of coal-fired power | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
stations to biomass? This is of course a very important area. In | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
order to meet our environmental commitments, we have committed to | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
moving towards renewables. It will be part of Government strategy and | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
local planning strategies to see existing sites reuse for electricity | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
generation where it is possible. I will make sure the energy secretary | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
is aware of her concerns so they can address the next time they are in | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
the House. Dudley Council is losing half its funding, forcing councils | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
to make terrible decisions about front line services like libraries | :22:54. | :23:02. | |
and museums, places I have visited since I was a child. Savings have | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
got to be made. But Dudley is losing ?86 per person and Windsor only ?18 | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
per person. Is that fair? Can we have a debate so that we can tell | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
the people of Dudley why that is fair? The overall package that was | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
announced yesterday provides a range of things for local Government. | :23:24. | :23:31. | |
After years of a Labour Government, the support provided to areas in | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
typically Conservative parts of the country was minimal, where is the | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
support provided to Labour areas was very generous. If we take decisions | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
that impact on Labour areas, it is because the grant is because the | :23:45. | :23:46. | |
grants to Conservative areas are very low. On Tuesday, the national | :23:47. | :23:55. | |
confidential inquiry into patient outcome and deaths reported that | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
patients are at risk of death and long-term publications often because | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
of critical delays in identifying and treating conditions. -- | :24:05. | :24:15. | |
long-term complications. It causes 40,000 UK deaths annually. Can I ask | :24:16. | :24:23. | |
the chairman of the all-party parliamentary group to consider a | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
Government debate on this so we can discuss the matter with the minister | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
and find out how we can improve recognition and treatment of sepsis | :24:34. | :24:35. | |
and better measure its long-term burden on our health services? Can I | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
pay tribute to my honourable friend for the work she is doing? If | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
condition affects a large number of people and can have a really | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
dramatic affect on them and their families. This is precisely the | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
subject that should be brought to the backbench business committee | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
because it will affect constituents across the House and it is precisely | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
for that at that time is allocated. We are not against cutting the cost | :25:03. | :25:18. | |
of politics. We are doing nothing to cut the allowances of members who do | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
not bother to turn up and contribute to the House. Why has the Government | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
done this? We will have discussions with all the parties affected by the | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
change over the coming days, including with his party. I would | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
say to him, the politics in Northern Ireland are complicated and our | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
prime desire is to make sure that we continue to see Northern Ireland | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
peaceful, developing and prosperous. Could we have a statement on the | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
Syrian refugee relocation programme so we can establish the facts of | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
which local authorities are taking refugees in? Unfortunately local | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
authorities like Derby City Council are playing party politics with | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
people's lives, leading to misinformation on what is actually | :26:06. | :26:12. | |
happening. Letters be clear, we collectively as a nation have a duty | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
towards Syrian refugees. I do not know about the situation in Derby | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
but it would not be excusable for anyone in this country to mix party | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
politics with the humanitarian needs of refugees. Yesterday when the | :26:26. | :26:35. | |
Chancellor was still on his feet, the Government said they would | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
renege yet again on carbon capture and storage, by withdrawing the | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
billion pound funding that they promised in their manifesto just a | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
few weeks ago. This is a disgraceful act of betrayal and sends an | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
appalling signal to people wishing to invest in our energy sector. When | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
will the Secretary of State come to this House and make a statement to | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
explain to my constituents in Peterhead why they have been led at | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
the garden path yet again? We had to make difficult decisions in the | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
spending review. On renewables, we have made huge progress since 2010. | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
In the second quarter of this year, more than 25% of our energy was | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
generated from renewable sources. That is a powerful indicator of the | :27:26. | :27:28. | |
way that we have put money into renewables and the way they are | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
playing a bigger role in society. Can the lead of the House arrange | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
for the Secretary of State for Education to come to the dispatch | :27:39. | :27:47. | |
box and look at the history of education in our country? I want to | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
make sure that every youngster in the Ribble Valley has the | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
opportunity to look at the ideology of great figures, including Chairman | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
Mao, and compare the thoughts in the Little red book, which we now have a | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
copy of, to what actually happened during their rule, which was | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
repression, torture, cultural wasteland and the death of 45 | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
million people in a famine. There has been a delay getting into the | :28:18. | :28:25. | |
debate. I understand the point my honourable friend is making. I | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
assume it would be a blue book for him and not a red book. His usual | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
chirpiness disappeared yesterday when the red book appeared. My | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
honourable friend makes a good point. Nobody should treat lightly | :28:40. | :28:48. | |
the works are brutal dictators. I want to start off with an apology to | :28:49. | :28:58. | |
yourself. I would like to ask the leader of the house to make a | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
statement telling us how he will make sure he can answer questions | :29:02. | :29:11. | |
accurately. I asked if the Scottish revenue would increase in real | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
terms. He said it would go up but there has been a real terms cut of | :29:15. | :29:16. | |
5%. The Chancellor of the Exchequer will | :29:17. | :29:25. | |
be back on Tuesday and the honourable gentleman will be able to | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
question the Chancellor and raise the issues with him that he raised | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
with me. I thank you for allowing the Prime Minister to answer the | :29:37. | :29:44. | |
number of questions he did today. Syria is an important issue and we | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
do need to debate it fully, so when the leader comes to this house, with | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
a change in the business programme, can I suggest that we debate Syria | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
on no limit on when the closure comes? If necessary, we can speak | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
through the night and everybody can get in. Firstly, we are all now | :30:06. | :30:15. | |
going to be digesting the Prime Minister's statement, the submission | :30:16. | :30:17. | |
to the Foreign Affairs Committee, the questions raised here today, the | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
concerns raised today, and we have a debate on Monday and I would | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
encourage members to use the debate is an opportunity to raise further | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
concerns they have. I know the Prime Minister will read it carefully and | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
he wants to take note of views on all sides of the House. He wants to | :30:35. | :30:42. | |
take the House with him. Buried in the CSI documents was the | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
announcement that HMRC will contract out that debt collection, fraud and | :30:46. | :30:54. | |
error complaints. This is the same private sector provider who sent | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
threatening letters to many of our constituents and whose many mistakes | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
have caused serious financial hardship. Will the government debate | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
on whether tax credits debt collection has been successful? I | :31:09. | :31:17. | |
will make sure the Treasury and ministers are aware of this and they | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
are backing here next Tuesday. I don't want to see any legitimate | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
claimant accused of doing something wrong. At the same time, people have | :31:29. | :31:35. | |
a duty to watch over affairs and if they are paid too much money, they | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
should tell the authorities. It needs to be got right. My | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
constituent suffered a serious loss of funds from Barclays Bank, | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
possibly through theft, and I don't believe the bank is taking the | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
matter seriously enough. Custodians of customers' funds, Cammy have a | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
debate on this? I can't comment on individual circumstances that where | :32:04. | :32:11. | |
individual customers can be the victims of fraud, I would always | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
expect banks to put their customers first in dealing with an issue like | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
this and ensure they are dealt with properly and easily and not left in | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
a position where they are disadvantaged as a result. Do you | :32:22. | :32:31. | |
share my disappointment that recent irresponsible newspaper headlines, | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
misleading reports, will have done nothing constructive and puts | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
communities at risk of Islamic abuse? Can we talk about the use of | :32:43. | :32:51. | |
Daesh instead of Islamic State? Well, Mr Speaker, let's be clear on | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
this. The current threat that we face in this country has nothing | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
whatsoever to do with the vast, vast, vast majority of Muslims in | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
this country and elsewhere in the world, it is propagated by a | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
minority. That minority must be dealt with with fourth and | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
effectiveness wherever necessary, but we need to send a message to the | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
Muslim community in this country that they are valued and we accept | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
that they have nothing to do with what is going on. Saturday the 5th | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
of December is small-business Saturday, it encourages people to | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
use small retailers and businesses of which the Isle of Wight has | :33:33. | :33:44. | |
many. Could the Leader of the House assist in getting four as a debate | :33:45. | :33:47. | |
on the subject and other initiatives which promote independent local | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
companies? I think small-business Saturday is a worthwhile event. | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
Please urge local businesses in coming days. I might give up pleb to | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
the Epsom business awards which I launched five years ago and the | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
final is the night. We have a debate on small-business Saturday and I | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
hope all members will join in events to support people who were immensely | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
hard and deliver essential services to our society. The National | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
sidereal summit in Rotherham, the Business Secretary promised that the | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
three working groups he set would report back on actions to be taken | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
on steel before Christmas. -- National steel summit. Coming | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
statement on the programme forward? I will make a reminder to the | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
Business Secretary about that commitment. We take the future of | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
the steel industry seriously and the statement yesterday contained | :34:57. | :34:57. | |
provisions around high energy users and energy costs. There is a lot to | :34:58. | :35:04. | |
do and I can assure him that the Business Secretary and members of | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
the team take this issue immensely seriously. Would the Leader of the | :35:08. | :35:15. | |
House kindly explain what opportunities there are to discuss | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
the recognition available to Armed Forces personnel who have served in | :35:19. | :35:27. | |
often highly dangerous counter piracy operations of the Horn of | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
Africa? If the recognition comes in the form of a medal, would the brave | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
men and women be able to wear the medal proudly as is not always the | :35:37. | :35:43. | |
case with all medals? This is an issue that has been raised before. | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
It is baffling that we should be in a position where we have to discuss | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
these issues. If somebody served our nation and is awarded a medal, they | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
should be able to wear it. I wish my honourable friend well in my | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
campaign, she has my support, and I will make sure the Secretary of | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
State is well aware of what is just plain common sense. Can I ask for a | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
statement or debate in government time on the industrial relations in | :36:09. | :36:31. | |
the DVLA? -- DDS a -- DVSA. The current industrial action on | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
contractual changes, is this anyway to treat public sector workers? What | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
you have described is concerning and it will be of concern to the roads | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
Minister. The Minister for the transport department will be in the | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
Commons the week after next and will undoubtably be able to raise the | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
question and I will make sure his concerns are drawn towards this. It | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
is with great sadness that I inform the House that a constituent, | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
97-year-old woman, was the victim of a horrific and cowardly burglary. | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
Can we secure debate on public authorities protecting vulnerable | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
people so I can get on the record that Cardiff Council should not have | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
the orange diamonds on the bins for waste services, highlighting where | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
vulnerable victims live in our city West remarked anything like this is | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
shocking and all of us on this side of the House will express dismay | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
that anybody could commit much an appalling crime against an elderly | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
lady, it defies logic and belief. You make an important point. I will | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
make sure that the issue is drawn to the attention of ministers in the | :37:43. | :37:50. | |
local government departments. Thank you. The Leader of the House will | :37:51. | :37:57. | |
recall that on the 22nd of October I ask if there would be a report from | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
the air accident investigation Branch into the crash in Glasgow, | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
and the report made seven recommendations. May I remind the | :38:08. | :38:14. | |
House that the anniversary of the crash is this Sunday? It is clearly | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
a very sad anniversary for all of those who lost their lives and were | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
injured, and the families of those affected we send our heartfelt | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
sympathies to them what would be a difficult weekend. Report has been | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
published but there are questions unanswered about the circumstances | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
that led to the crash. I will make sure that the aviation Minister is | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
aware of the comments made and they will be in the Commons a week on | :38:41. | :38:50. | |
Thursday. On Sunday a foundation in Bedford is holding a drive for | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
people of Asian origin to join the bone marrow register. The likelihood | :38:56. | :39:03. | |
of a match balls from 60% to 20% for people of African origin. -- falls. | :39:04. | :39:12. | |
Can we have a statement on how we may improve these ratios? You can | :39:13. | :39:21. | |
send our good wishes to the macro for how important their workers. -- | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
you can send good wishes from all sides of the House, their work is | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
tremendously important. When people in this country express any concern | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
about the cost nature of this country, one of the replies I give | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
them is that you find one of the strongest elements of unity in this | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
country, in the migrant communities, people who do a really strong and | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
important job for our society and we should pay tribute to them for the | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
work they do. In the Autumn Statement, the Shadow Chancellor | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
made comments on defence that illustrated a lack of understanding. | :39:56. | :40:04. | |
I wonder if we could have a debate on the SDSR? I think we had two | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
hours from the prime and is on Monday about the defence strategy | :40:12. | :40:13. | |
and it is clear what the strategy is. We are investing in defence | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
equipment. -- from the Prime Minister. We are going to have | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
exciting new capabilities. We take responsibility very clearly, it is | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
to defend the nation but it is sad that the SNP with its on Trident, | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
appears to want to remove one of the most important legs from our | :40:33. | :40:39. | |
defences. The general debate on the final report of the airports | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
commission. To move the notion, I called Doctor Tania Mathias. I beg | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
to move the motion standing in my name and the name of my colleagues. | :40:54. | :41:06. | |
I would also like to thank the Backbench Business Committee for | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
allocating time for this debate and thank the members who supported that | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
application and members who are also present here today. I do believe | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
this is an important debate that requires scrutiny before the | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
government make it decision. I would like to pay particular tribute to my | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
colleagues in neighbouring constituencies, the Right Honourable | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
friend the Member for Richmond Park. He is an assiduous | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
campaigner. This report came out in July after two years. ?20 million. | :41:41. | :41:50. | |
In July, many UK families were preparing to go on holiday, perhaps | :41:51. | :42:05. | |
using their local UK airport. I wanted a report about our UK | :42:06. | :42:11. | |
aviation needs but like many people I was disappointed. The report is | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
filled with ifs and buts and is shrouded in fog. We have found fault | :42:19. | :42:31. | |
with analysis. Many councils, Wandsworth Council, Windsor, | :42:32. | :42:33. | |
Maidenhead, they have found fault with the data. Too much fog in this | :42:34. | :42:41. | |
report and the conclusion for expansion at Heathrow will not serve | :42:42. | :42:48. | |
UK's aviation needs. To start with, looking at connectivity, the interim | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
report said a third runway at Heathrow would be at maximum | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
capacity by 2050. The final report advises against a fourth runway. How | :42:59. | :43:06. | |
can this be a long-term option for UK's aviation needs. If we look at | :43:07. | :43:14. | |
domestic destinations, the report shows a decrease from seven to four, | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
is bad luck in Scotland, bad luck for Ireland, and not good news for | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
the Northern Powerhouse. Again, not a good option for the UK long-term | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
aviation needs. Looking at the long haul destinations, the report | :43:30. | :43:38. | |
implies there may 12 extra long haul destinations, but some analysts say | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
that if you compared the expanded runways in Heathrow with two | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
runways, the actual increase in long haul destinations is but one. If we | :43:51. | :43:57. | |
then look at, over a quarter of a million increase in air movements on | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
flights to and from Heathrow, if we look at that, the slot of these M | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
movements, in this report, are going to be in the morning and at peak | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
evening periods. -- M movements. That is when it will affect | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
residents the most. -- sir. If we then come onto the cost. Again, we | :44:19. | :44:27. | |
are shrouded in fog. The independence economic review said, | :44:28. | :44:30. | |
and I quote, to counsel caution. Other analysts talk of double | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
accounting. The report talks of aeronautical charges but the | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
airlines say Heathrow, at present, charges too much in landing fees and | :44:44. | :44:45. | |
they would not pay extra charges. There is also a report of extra cost | :44:46. | :44:56. | |
for the surface access. The environmental audit committee could | :44:57. | :44:59. | |
not work out when they were deliberating with the Chief | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
Executive exactly how many billions this will require and whether the | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
taxpayer pays or whether Heathrow would pay. Is it 20 billion or 5 | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
billion? There is talk of a congestion charge in the report. | :45:16. | :45:24. | |
This is not costed out. There are schemes for M25 access, again not | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
costed out. When we look at the effect on residents and we look at | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
the report on noise, it says the noise will be divest it, dispersed. | :45:34. | :45:42. | |
To me with an expanded Heathrow that just means more people are affected. | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
The report does say the noise impact will be at current levels. And yet | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
current levels for my constituency are intolerable. As has been | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
demonstrated by Teddington action group. TfL says 1 million people may | :45:58. | :46:08. | |
be affected by an expanded Heathrow. Heathrow is already the worst | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
airport in Europe for noise pollution. With a third runway, | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
Heathrow would be worse than Charles de Gaulle. It would be worse than | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
Amsterdam. It would be worse than Frankfurt and Munich and Madrid. But | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
beyond this, a third runway at Heathrow means Heathrow would be | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
worse than Charles de Gaulle, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich and | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
Madrid combine. This is not the way forward for the UK's aviation needs. | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
When the report talks of a night flight ban, which incidentally the | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
chief executive refuses to accept, and this isn't a total night flight | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
ban in the report, it is a quiet night night flight ban, it does not | :46:55. | :47:03. | |
conform to WHO standards, but even so, if you can have a quasi-night | :47:04. | :47:10. | |
flight ban for three runways, why can't my constituents have a night | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
flight ban tonight with two runways? There are already 13 flights between | :47:15. | :47:22. | |
4:30am and 6am, intolerable. The report does talk about an authority | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
to liaise with the community. The report does point out there is no | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
Airport and the community. So why Airport and the community. So why | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
would a third runway increase the trust? The report talks of a noise | :47:37. | :47:44. | |
levy. Will that be the passengers? The airlines? For my residents, they | :47:45. | :47:52. | |
are not interested in a noise levy. They are interested in a good | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
night's sleep. The report talks about air quality and here there is | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
less fog, because the report does say expansion at Heathrow is | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
contingent on performance in air quality. But Heathrow cannot manage | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
air quality with two runways, so how will it manage with three? And why | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
in the report is nitrous dioxide levelling compared with Heathrow to | :48:22. | :48:29. | |
the worst road in London? Why does it not compare it to the EU legal | :48:30. | :48:40. | |
levels? I am coming. The report does not include the hypothesis that | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
actually going forwards move may not want a hub airport. The report does | :48:45. | :48:53. | |
not consider that actually regional airports may want the competition | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
that an expanded Heathrow would remove. If the report is looking for | :48:57. | :49:05. | |
a hub airport, then the Gatwick Airport option shows the same | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
economic benefits and less environmental impact. The report | :49:09. | :49:16. | |
does not, as we all know, consider a hub airport not in an urban area and | :49:17. | :49:24. | |
perhaps in an estuary. I would want the Government before it makes a | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
decision to consider that for Heathrow, with a night ban, that it | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
will not accept, with a ban that the report calls for further expansion, | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
with the problem of environmental impact it cannot address with two | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
runways, Heathrow cannot be the hub it aspires to be. The Prime Minister | :49:45. | :49:51. | |
in 2009, when he was Leader of the Opposition, said no ifs, no buts, no | :49:52. | :50:02. | |
third runway. This is 342 pages of ifs and buts. It is not a solution | :50:03. | :50:12. | |
for the UK's future aviation needs and before the Government makes its | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
decision, I would urge it to remember the promise of the Prime | :50:17. | :50:27. | |
Minister. The question is that this House should consider the final | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
report of the airport commission. We now come to Sadiq Khan. Thank you, | :50:31. | :50:39. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to speak. I congratulate the | :50:40. | :50:48. | |
honourable member for Twickenham. Thank you for securing the debate | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
today. The first question we need to ask ourselves is whether we think | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
there is a need for increased flight capacity in this part of the | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
country. We know London has been the global economic powerhouse for | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
centuries. Built on its openness to people, ideas and trade. My view is | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
there is a need for increased flight capacity in this part of the | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
country. The Davis commission then went on to look at the way of | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
addressing the need for increased flight capacity and they concluded | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
there should be a new runway at Heathrow. I disagree with the | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
conclusion reached by them. I think it is possible to increase the need | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
for flight capacity without the additional problems of noise | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
pollution and have been taught about and the problems of air-quality that | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
have been talked about, and to remind ourselves of the challenges | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
we face in London. Last year alone almost 10,000 Londoners died as a | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
direct result of air-quality. There are children whose lungs are | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
underdeveloped in parts of London because of air pollution. A couple | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
of months ago, the UK Supreme Court held that there was in breach of the | :52:04. | :52:09. | |
EU and UK air pollution. A couple of months ago, the UK Supreme Court | :52:10. | :52:11. | |
held that there was in breach of EU and UK air-quality directives. | :52:12. | :52:13. | |
Air-quality in London is a killer. It makes you sick and it is illegal. | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
In those circumstances, I don't know how a third runway can meet the | :52:17. | :52:25. | |
Supreme Court's judgment. Without building a new runway, even now I | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
don't see how Heathrow is addressing that problem. And the problems of | :52:29. | :52:35. | |
surface transport going between the two runways as well, let alone with | :52:36. | :52:43. | |
a third. I will give way. I am grateful that the former transport | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
minister has given way. When was it that he changed his mind on | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
Heathrow, given that he was a transport minister under a Labour | :52:55. | :52:57. | |
administration that opted for a third runway at Heathrow and he | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
fought the 2010 general election on a pledge that a Labour Government | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
would build a third runway at Heathrow? Can I thank the right | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
honourable gentleman that intervention? He will know that in | :53:13. | :53:18. | |
2010 when we lost that election, the then Government had a report from | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
Davis which came up with three recommendations and I have listened | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
to that and I have read the Supreme Court judgment. I have met the | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
teachers that cannot teach during the daytime because of the noise in | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
the classrooms that my honourable friend has been talking about. I | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
have met those that have taken the case to the Supreme Court. I have | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
met some of the children struggling and suffering from ill health. The | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
challenge is how we address the need for increased flight capacity, a | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
case that I still accept now in this part of the country. Does he agree | :53:51. | :53:57. | |
that the need for increased flight capacity could be met in large part | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
by greater use of regional airports, like the brilliant airport in | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
Birmingham which contributes ?1 billion to the UK economy, within a | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
two hour drive of 35 million people? And even better when we create HS2. | :54:12. | :54:20. | |
He makes a great case for supporting and investing in regional airports. | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
Birmingham is our second city and we should be supporting Birmingham. My | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
worry is that if the recommendations are accepted, the report will not | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
allow that to happen. There is also a way of addressing the flight | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
problem in this country at Gatwick. A new runway would address the | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
flight capacity issue and you would get the jobs that this part of the | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
country is always in need of. You get the growth, but more | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
importantly, you get more competition for Heathrow Airport. We | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
want a better Heathrow Airport, not a bigger one. I will give way that | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
it is the last time because I need to make progress. I am a central | :55:02. | :55:11. | |
London MP as he is and a third runway would definitely affect my | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
constituents in relation to the issues that he raises about air | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
quality and I very much agree with them. But why does he think the | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
Davis commission was so categorical in its conclusion that it did not | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
give a view to the idea that there should be a third runway at Gatwick? | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
I personally would have preferred a Gatwick suggestion but that is not | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
what the Davis commission has put into place. He will be aware that | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
Davis did not roll out a new runway at Gatwick. An option which he did | :55:42. | :55:49. | |
with the fantasy estuary island airport. He did not roll out a third | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
runway at the Gaelic airport and what is important... I will give way | :55:54. | :56:06. | |
but then I to make progress. Would he agree that in the report, the | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
actual data that they have used for Gatwick is now known to be | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
inaccurate? That is the point I was going to make so am grateful for | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
that intervention. In relation to connectivity at Gatwick versus | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
Heathrow, the figures are very dependent on data. Economic | :56:28. | :56:33. | |
benefits, 10.9 million at Gatwick at 11.8 at Heathrow. The cost of | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
expansion at Gatwick are cheaper at 7.8 versus ?15.6 billion. Public | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
subsidy requires far less than Heathrow Airport. Deliverability, no | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
need to build a tunnel under the M25 to destroy villages and relocate | :56:50. | :56:59. | |
waste plants. Noise, an important issue that concerns not simply heard | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
that my honourable friends in the neighbouring seats as well. -- not | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
simply heard that my honourable friends. Gatwick output is not | :57:08. | :57:22. | |
breaching any air-quality Lovitz and it never has but Heathrow is | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
currently breaching air-quality limits, both UK and EU limits. It is | :57:27. | :57:34. | |
difficult to see how the UK can meet the Supreme Court judgment with a | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
new runway at Heathrow Airport. This is an important debate about an | :57:40. | :57:42. | |
important issue. I am passionately in favour of increased their | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
capacity in this part of the country because it would lead to more jobs | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
and growth. Anybody who wants there to be more jobs in London and once | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
there to be growth in London and one said to be better competition with | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
Heathrow Airport cannot be against increased capacity in this part of | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
the country. Anyone who rules out a new runway at Heathrow and Gatwick | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
is playing hard and loose with jobs in London. I want to challenge the | :58:10. | :58:17. | |
notion that everything has to be in London and the South East. Why does | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
increase capacity have to be at Gatwick or Heathrow? Why not make | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
greater use of regional airports? Why do the extra jobs need to be in | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
London and the South East where you cannot afford to buy a House? Let's | :58:30. | :58:33. | |
have proper devolution to the rest of the country. Support regional | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
countries and regional airports. Here I disagree with my honourable | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
friend. If London and the South East does well, it is not at the expense | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
of Birmingham. I think Birmingham is better than that. I think London and | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
the South East can do well. Being against airport expansion in the | :58:54. | :58:59. | |
South East period is a position that is damaging to jobs and businesses | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
and Mrs a huge opportunity. I support the honourable friends who | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
are against a runway at Heathrow and I support those in favour of a | :59:10. | :59:10. | |
runway at Gatwick. The Congratulations on securing the | :59:11. | :59:22. | |
debate and on the manner on the presenter Jill debate but I | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
profoundly disagree with it. May I apologise that I cannot be here at | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
5pm, I have an unavoidable commitments but I shall stay and | :59:31. | :59:36. | |
listen to as much of the debate as I can. My position is clear, I'm an | :59:37. | :59:40. | |
aviator and believe that it is impossible to have too many runways! | :59:41. | :59:49. | |
LAUGHTER Therefore, I am fully supportive of a third runway at | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
Heathrow but I would prefer the proposal of a Heathrow hub, | :59:54. | :00:03. | |
sequential runways, to the north of 2079, I would prefer that because it | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
would be less intrusive. I am strongly supportive of a second | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
runway at Gatwick and it was nonsense in 1979 when it was ruled | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
out for 40 years that there should be another runway at Gatwick. We | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
should not constrain future generations in the way they were | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
constrained to stop Heathrow is important and that is what this | :00:25. | :00:30. | |
commission has found it yet paragraph two, it says Heathrow's | :00:31. | :00:37. | |
network overshadows any other UK airport with 84% of scheduled long | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
haul flights not being available anywhere else in the London airport | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
system. There you have it in one sentence. The key importance of | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
Heathrow and why we should be backing it. 78% is the number of | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
long haul flights out of Heathrow, as well as 25% of our exports. It is | :01:01. | :01:09. | |
hugely important. Paragraph three, the committee reports or so the | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
negative impact that a decision not to proceed with the third runway | :01:16. | :01:24. | |
would have on the local economy and wider economy, which they estimate | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
over 60 years, long time, I accept, to be between 21 billion, and | :01:29. | :01:40. | |
30-45,000,000,000. One does not need to query those figures but to | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
recognise that they are substantial figures and reflect the importance | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
of Heathrow. I give way. Would he agree that Heathrow is absolutely | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
vital to areas such as mine, Amersham, Buckinghamshire, where we | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
have over 700 companies headquartered in the region because | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
of the proximity to Heathrow, and my constituents, lanky, would rather | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
see a Heathrow expansion, which would benefit them economically, | :02:09. | :02:16. | |
rather than the benefits building of HS2, which does nothing! I have to | :02:17. | :02:24. | |
disappoint you and say I am also in favour of HS2. I will explain why in | :02:25. | :02:33. | |
a moment. As he took my job in the Ministry of Defence, I will give way | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
to him. I am grateful. On the subject of who benefits, as he | :02:38. | :02:46. | |
studied the awful maps on pages 163 and 164 which shows the economic | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
benefit, a choice between Heathrow and Gatwick, it is a no-brainer, it | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
is Heathrow. The West Midlands, Wales and the West country will | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
benefit from Heathrow and the South East will predominantly in a | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
Gatwick. Since he is a West Country men, I know he will double his | :03:08. | :03:15. | |
support for his choice, and no-brainer. You make a good point. | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
There is no doubt, the location of Heathrow was designed to be in the | :03:21. | :03:28. | |
most propitious place to maximise the value of placing an airport near | :03:29. | :03:36. | |
to London. As one who flew out of Heathrow within 12 months of it | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
having been opened, I have used Heathrow all my life and there is no | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
doubt that that airport was ground-breaking at the time it was | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
created. It was the first airport in the world to have two parallel | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
runways, six parallel runways, but now down to two because aircraft | :03:55. | :04:03. | |
cannot cope with the crosswinds. It was a serious innovation and it is | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
now lagging behind, and the commission has said that failure to | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
address the problem will have a negative impact on the wider economy | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
through creating barriers to trade, investment, tourism, and adversely | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
affecting employment, is the Right Honourable member for tooting said. | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
So there is an economic case that is overwhelming. My honourable friend | :04:28. | :04:37. | |
for Twickenham, clearly postage -- clearly her constituents are | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
aggrieved. I was a counsellor in Chiswick, and I can say to her that | :04:43. | :04:56. | |
I am about 3-400 yards north of the extended runway, and so I see the | :04:57. | :05:04. | |
aeroplanes on a daily basis, and if you choose to live in Twickenham, | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
you have to take into account the airport which was there a long time | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
before you chose to go and live in Twickenham, and the same applies in | :05:13. | :05:20. | |
Richmond. A great man though my honourable friend for Richmond Park | :05:21. | :05:28. | |
is, I look forward to seeing the next Mayor of London! I find it is | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
imperative that we recognise that of all the boroughs that have been | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
consulted, the only borough where the majority of those responding are | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
against Heathrow were in his own borough. Everywhere else they found | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
in favour, a majority found in favour of continuing Heathrow's | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
importance to the community, and therefore, the third runway. So, I | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
believe that local opinion is important. Aerospace, aviation is | :06:04. | :06:12. | |
becoming much more... Of course I will give way. The poll is the only | :06:13. | :06:21. | |
poll that reveals most people are in favour of Heathrow expansion but you | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
will not be surprised to hear that it was conducted by Heathrow! It | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
must be very authoritative! There is an imposition but as I say, those | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
who live there choose to live there, and for many of them, including many | :06:38. | :06:45. | |
of us in The Chamber, the proximity... Eye went Kuwait but I | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
know you represent me in Chiswick. -- I won't give way. She is not as | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
good as her predecessor! So I cannot give way! People knew what to expect | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
and those of us in this House have the benefit of being close to | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
Heathrow as I found the other day when I left my wallet behind when I | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
left for Heathrow so I went back and still got my plane to Edinburgh! I | :07:15. | :07:23. | |
represent Farmborough which has the most prestigious airport, run by | :07:24. | :07:36. | |
Tag, and provides for the business committee and takes a lot of load of | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
Heathrow and Gatwick, and they will continue to do that, divided they | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
are not impaired by the Ministry of Defence. To conclude, we are the | :07:45. | :07:51. | |
beneficiaries of the Victorians' vision who built great schemes of | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
which we are still beneficiaries of, this building being one of them. | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
Since then, we have been subjected to a lack of vision and the | :08:00. | :08:07. | |
paralysis. I saw a map produced in 1935 for an orbital road around | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
London. 1935, but it took 50 years. We cannot go on like this. The | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
commission has given us a conference of analysis and an answer, we need | :08:20. | :08:28. | |
to get on with it now. -- a comprehensive analysis. Thank you to | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
my honourable friend for Aldershot and my constituents but I disagree | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
with you profoundly. No ifs, no buts, no third runway at Heathrow. | :08:38. | :08:45. | |
Order! Don't disagree with the chair, but you cannot disagree with | :08:46. | :08:56. | |
that share -- chair. My sincere apologies, I am still getting used | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
to the conventions of this place. No ifs, no buts, no third runway at | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
Heathrow, what happens to be Prime Minister's decisive statements made | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
prior to the 2010 election? Six years later, on the eve of | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
announcements, that could mean that the Prime Minister gives the third | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
runway the green light, a decision that would be devastating to my | :09:18. | :09:28. | |
constituency, have irreversible consequences. The Heathrow option is | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
the only one of the three deliverable options in the report | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
that is recommended, and it is recommended through flawed economic | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
assessment of their own figures. Before I go further, I would like to | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing this debate | :09:47. | :09:59. | |
and four also helping me. -- for. Heathrow should be better, not | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
bigger. I recognised the local and national benefit for the economy | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
now. I propose expansion there because I want to see no increase in | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
noise and pollution that the airport sees already. I want to work with | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
the airport to reduce those impacts. Heathrow airports Limited may be | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
winning on the amount spent on PR, but this Parliament has a duty to | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
assess what is the optimum solution and not be swayed by Mark Reading | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
rhetoric. -- marking rhetoric. How long can we assess this? The debate | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
has been running for 20 years. How long do we debate this in a | :10:42. | :10:50. | |
theological way? There will be a conclusion if the Prime Minister | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
considers the less costly Gatwick. Those who are impacted by runway | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
three do not know what the impact will be. British airway is no longer | :11:02. | :11:10. | |
supports Heathrow Airport's runway three. The chief executive of | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
British airways has expressed serious concerns of how a third | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
runway will be funded. The input structure is not fit for purpose, | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
the price tag is excessive and cannot be justified on any basis. We | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
did not ask for it and we're not paying for it. Businesses have said | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
time and time again that a quick decision is needed. Businesses want | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
to get to and from London and two markets. Heathrow Airport is not | :11:41. | :11:48. | |
often top of the agenda. -- to. Businesses also want to get to other | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
parts of UK, not just London. Why do people in the South East not | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
understand that Gatwick is much more difficult to get to ban a brilliant | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
regional airport like Birmingham! To our drive for 35 million people in | :12:04. | :12:14. | |
the UK. Birmingham, with HS2, can become Heathrow's third runway! I | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
thank my honourable friend, and there are other solutions. I am | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
concentrating on the subject of the debate which is the airports | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
commission which did recommend one of the three options is being | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
Gatwick for additional runway in London and the South East. -- an | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
additional runway. For residents, there will be 40% more flights | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
overhead, 50% of London will be in a high noise area, more air pollution, | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
less respite for those areas who currently benefit from respite, more | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
traffic congestion, little chance of getting or keeping a night flight, | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
more pressure for further expansion such as the possibility of a fourth | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
runway. Announcing a third runway will start a long and drawn-out | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
process. Legal challenges a real possibility. This will not be a | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
quick process. I would like to cover what Heathrow means to my | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
constituents with two runways. My constituency lies between Heathrow | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
and London, beneath the Landing parts or planes approaching over | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
landing. Airport has been with us for 70 years and provides jobs and | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
stimulus for a wide area. It also brings noise, traffic, congestion | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
and pollution. I have never advocated that it be closed or | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
reduced incapacity and I don't like being accused of being so. A real | :13:42. | :13:48. | |
threat to Heathrow's future would be the Mayor of London's forma proposal | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
for a Thames estuary airport. When the airport is operating on a | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
westerly operation, 70% of the time, planes approach directly overhead | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
every 60 to 90 seconds, they are locked into a final approach so | :14:06. | :14:13. | |
there is no variation for those who work or live beneath the plane. | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
After constituents live beneath this flight path and the rest will be if | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
a third runway goes ahead. The noise starts for 15 AM with an average of | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
16 flights before 6am. Then it is continuous for an hour and then from | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
7am to 3pm, those under the approach of runway get continuous noise | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
before the planes switches to the other runway, before the airport | :14:38. | :14:44. | |
closes at 11:30pm. It is not just my constituents. There are 700,000 more | :14:45. | :14:55. | |
people in London and this out these -- and South East are affected every | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
day. More are tips by aircraft noise than at any other airport. -- more | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
are affected. A third runway will mean a 40% increase in flights, and | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
a third runway will mean the rest of the area will be included in a high | :15:13. | :15:20. | |
noise area. So when we share the joy of continuous overflying for ten | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
hours a day. Air quality is in breach of EU limits and will be | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
worse, as will traffic congestion. Pressure on housing, pressure on | :15:31. | :15:38. | |
jobs and public services. For some, a third runway will mean the loss of | :15:39. | :15:46. | |
their homes. Yesterday I met a woman who has lived here for 40 years. 90 | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
minutes after the Davis commission was published, she and her husband | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
received a hand-delivered letter telling them about the arrangements | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
to be made for buying them home by pro-Assad would not buy a flat in | :16:00. | :16:10. | |
West London. Her husband then fell ill and passed away. The member for | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
Hayes and Harlington is unable to speak in this debate but she asked | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
me to make it clear that 4000 residents will have to leave their | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
homes if Heathrow expands. She said we cannot replace a community. The | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
main reasons to oppose expansion are noise, air quality, the business | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
case that does not stack up, floors and economic arguments in the Davis | :16:36. | :16:44. | |
commission case. Heathrow runway three is the most costly, most | :16:45. | :16:52. | |
complex of the three schemes and carries the highest risk. It is | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
predicated on condition that the airport operator is not prepared to | :16:57. | :17:03. | |
concede. I am also grateful for the opportunity to have this debate. It | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
is the first opportunity to discuss Davis, although it is already | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
showing that it gives us an early opportunity of how colleagues are | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
going to be disobliging to one another in the course of the | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
argument is that they deploy. My interest goes back a long way, as | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
the official report will bear witness. I often think that when I | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
die, the word Stansted will be engraved on my heart. I must declare | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
that interest but it was an interest formed when I was the honourable | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
member for Middleton and Prestwich in Greater Manchester, and it was at | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
the time of another report into airport policy. I came to the | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
conclusion from that that no inland side should be chosen for London's | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
third airport. It did not even recommend Stansted but I saw all of | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
the other side and none of them was correct as far as I was concerned. | :17:54. | :18:01. | |
My stance was reinforced by BAA, the statutory authority at the time, | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
because there was already a second airport in the place of Gatwick, and | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
they concluded the infamous pact with West Sussex County Council not | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
to have a second runway within 40 years. To my mind, that was the | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
equivalent in aviation of the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact. BAA also | :18:22. | :18:28. | |
denied that anything could be done about the works that sit to the West | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
of Heathrow. I was told that I was a child, I didn't understand, it was | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
too costly and so on. We now know that is where terminal five stands. | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
Davis comes out in favour of a hub airport and I am prepared on balance | :18:43. | :18:50. | |
to accept that is a current need. It backs Heathrow in support of that | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
concept, but then it stops short of its own logic by ruling out a | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
fourth. Most of the airlines would say that you cannot have a hub | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
airport that can be limited to three runways. Look at what the | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
competition is doing. All of the factors which have persuaded Davis | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
to recommend a third are going to recur in time. Whether it is | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
connectivity from our provincial airports or the need for more long | :19:18. | :19:26. | |
haul routes to be established. Using this tactic of ruling out a fourth | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
runway is a repeat of what has happened on so many occasions in the | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
past. It is a worthless condition, I say to the House. The infamous | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
letters of Sir John Egan in 1995 when terminal five was finally being | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
discussed, I quote, we do not want and nor shall we seek an additional | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
runway. We called on the inspector to recommend that subject to | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
permission being given for terminal five, and additional Heathrow runway | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
should be rolled out for ever. And when BAA appeared in front of the | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
select committee on transport, on which I was honoured to serve in the | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
1990s, we put it to the representatives of B a a time and | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
again, but if we recommend in addition to terminal five that you | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
have a third runway, they denied it and denied it. You cannot believe | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
people when they try to bind the future in that way. My constituents | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
now at Saffron Walden are also familiar with the tactic. In 1983 | :20:33. | :20:40. | |
service. There are compelling reasons which are now manifest as to | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
why a second runway at Stansted should not be developed under any | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
circumstances and Government should make an unequivocal declaration of | :20:49. | :20:51. | |
intention that a second main runway will not be built. He later | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
described the second runway as an environmental catastrophe. So the | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
Government made that declaration and within seven years not a different | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
Government, the same Government, had already begun to water it down. | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
Davis himself in fact has said that in the longer term future he sees no | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
difficulty about a second runway at Stansted. It completely devalues any | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
undertaking that is given. There are other weaknesses, as honourable | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
members have said, about the Davis report in support of a third runway | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
at Heathrow. As I read the report, the impression grew on me that every | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
consideration was being bent towards the recommendation on which the | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
commission had already decided. Air-quality has been mentioned, | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
surface transport, the cost of that, regional airport connections, will | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
there only be many and for how long? I also mentioned the practicality of | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
ruling out early arrivals at the so-called hub airports because of | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
the effect on connectivity if it is to be effective in the future. I | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
also question how many long haul routes will be created. This | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
accumulation of doubts could affect the timing and financing of any | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
third runway at Heathrow. Some people say that competition between | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
airports is unrealistic. I am not sure I agree with that. There is no | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
doubt that Gatwick and Stansted under their new owners have become | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
better places in which to operate. The House will understand that I | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
would be inconsistent with the view I formed a long time ago if I | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
thought Northwest Essex was an admirable site foray four runway | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
airport. I am sorry if this disappoints the noble lord Sugar. I | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
still believe the Government was right in 1970 and my noble friend is | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
right in saying the long-term answer lies in the estuaries. Having a | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
decent airport for a world-class city, London needs to start again. | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
The British have built excellent airport in other parts of the world | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
but not here. We should think in bigger terms and we should also | :23:00. | :23:07. | |
think of the northern powerhouse. Before I start, can I apologise to | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
members in the chamber that the honourable member for Aldershot will | :23:14. | :23:15. | |
not be present for summing up because of an engagement which was | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
postponed because of the Paris atrocities. I hope that is OK with | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
everybody present. The issue of an additional runway in the South East | :23:26. | :23:33. | |
of England would not be appropriate if you take my inbox as a measuring | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
tour. I have had more responses to this than on Syrian military action. | :23:38. | :23:44. | |
London and the South East has had quite enough infrastructure | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
investment. We should attract more to the regions and not to London. I | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
have something to do with that argument but we have to deal with | :23:54. | :23:55. | |
the reality of a straight choice between Heathrow and Gatwick. The | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
SNP currently remains neutral on this matter. The party and the | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
Scottish Government have strong views on the benefits to Scotland on | :24:06. | :24:13. | |
better hub capacity. Scotland is on the periphery of Europe and so | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
travel is not a luxury but an essential element of business and | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
family life. The ability of Scotland to maintain and increase its global | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
competitiveness is dependent on emerging markets and we are | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
dependent on London for a lot of this connectivity. Recent research | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
taken by the Civil Aviation Authority confirmed the extent to | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
which Scotland is dependent on hub airports. Glasgow airport is pivotal | :24:42. | :24:53. | |
to its future success. It sustains 7000 jobs and contributes ?200 | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
million to the national economy and carried 7.7 million passengers in | :25:00. | :25:02. | |
2014 and is currently UK airport of the year. Glasgow, along with | :25:03. | :25:10. | |
Aberdeen and Inverness airports, the Chambers of Commerce, and CBI | :25:11. | :25:17. | |
Scotland also support Glasgow and a sister airport at Gatwick. The most | :25:18. | :25:25. | |
popular route is the British Airways service between Glasgow and | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
Heathrow. It should be noticed that Glasgow also finds Gatwick hugely | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
important. 49% of the passengers flying to Glasgow from Heathrow were | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
transfers. They started their journey outside the UK. 26% of | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
Gatwick passengers were transfers. In this global AIDS connectivity is | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
vital. Connectivity is dominated by Heathrow. It is the UK's only hub | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
and has the greatest number of onward connections. Put simply it | :25:56. | :26:03. | |
serves destinations that cannot be reached from any other UK airport. | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
This decision is important to Scotland, as important as it is to | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
London and the South East. It is not clear how the House will vote on | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
this issue. When giving evidence to the public, the Leader of the House | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
said if we have a vote on where to build, Heathrow or Gatwick, within | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
the UK Parliament, it will be carried only with the wishes of the | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
UK Parliament, but it will depend on the nature of the vehicle. A vote is | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
only in principle and not legislation. If it is a piece of | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
legislation and it is about detailed planning, it will be for the Speaker | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
to decide if it is an early motion or not. The possibility of Scottish | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
MPs not thinking the matter is important was met with incredulity. | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
It is absolutely preposterous, like say Scottish MPs should only vote on | :27:00. | :27:13. | |
things based in Scotland. Heathrow is a UK asset. It is a major hub for | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
connect UK to as many international as possible. To say it is | :27:19. | :27:33. | |
English-only is complete nonsense. I hope I have made two things | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
abundantly clear. The connectivity that an additional runway would | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
provide is vital to Scotland and its potential. Secondly, if the House is | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
asked to make a decision on the issue it should not be certified as | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
England only. We should be allowed full voting rights on such an | :27:52. | :27:58. | |
important issue. I wanted to congratulate my friend the | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
honourable member for Twickenham and for her promotion of meteorite | :28:02. | :28:10. | |
honourable member -- of me to write honourable member. Given the looming | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
decision on Heathrow, that is extremely unlikely! Whenever there | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
is a big infrastructure projects it always causes pain. Then the game | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
justifies that pain. Clearly that is the view of those people who support | :28:25. | :28:31. | |
Heathrow expansion but I urge them to look properly at the costs and | :28:32. | :28:33. | |
benefits of this project before taking a view because they speak for | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
themselves. I want to briefly revisit some of the costs. I will be | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
brief. Noise, the principal concern. Heathrow is already Europe's biggest | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
noise polluted by far. 720,000 people are affected. A third runway | :28:50. | :28:58. | |
would increase flights from 740,000 a year, affecting 1 million people, | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
and people would lose half the respite that they treasure from | :29:04. | :29:12. | |
eight hours to four hours. Expanding Heathrow with a third runway merely | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
tells us that Heathrow is a company that is used to getting its way with | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
Government and so no longer needs to even appear reasonable. | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
The government have not analysed the impact of noise on residents, I | :29:25. | :29:31. | |
don't and they have seen the flight path but that may be clarified | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
later. The pollution. With two runways, air pollution around he | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
wrote massively exceeds legal limits, and the runway will see 75 | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
million more people using the air, going back woods and forward. TfL | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
believes an extra runway would add 25 million more lorry and car | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
journeys. -- backwards. Nobody in the world believes you can reconcile | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
Heathrow expansion with aspirations relating to Eric quality. -- air | :30:03. | :30:11. | |
quality. It is hard to know how to respond to the assertion. Howard | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
Davies himself has begun to nuance his position on the back of the VW | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
scandal, on the basis that the data has been revealed to be entirely | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
fraudulent. He told a committee of MPs, I do think the government will | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
need to satisfy itself on this point. Clearly some things have | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
moved on but the government will need to satisfy that this can be | :30:36. | :30:43. | |
done safely. But financial costs. It is an unlikely new ally, Willie | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
Walsh, who has described the cost is prohibitive and make the project | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
undeliverable. Surface transport costs alone, it is obvious he is | :30:53. | :31:01. | |
right. Had you accommodate 25 extra -- 25 million extra car journeys a | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
year? Heathrow puts the cost at ?1 billion. TfL puts the cost at ?20 | :31:06. | :31:12. | |
billion. It goes on and on and on. That is some of the downside, and it | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
is big. You might accept that downside if the economic case was | :31:18. | :31:25. | |
overwhelming, but the Howard Davies report makes the economic case for | :31:26. | :31:32. | |
us. There is a giant gap between the report itself and the conclusion it | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
reaches. It is like Howard Davies began with a conclusion, spent 20 | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
billion quid cobbling together and analysis and data and information | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
and then came to the same old conclusion at the end of the report. | :31:47. | :31:49. | |
He tells us in the report that in the most optimistic scenario, an | :31:50. | :31:56. | |
expanded Heathrow will give us 12 additional international routes, and | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
much of the additional activity, if not all, would be at the expense of | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
neighbouring airports like sand bed and Gatwick. -- Stansted. In other | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
words, we would not be creating new activity, we would centralise | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
existing activity, recreating a monopoly. It is a pitifully small | :32:19. | :32:25. | |
outside, and more so when you compare it with the dose of pain | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
that Heathrow expansion encompasses. I agree with what you say, including | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
what you say about the airport commission report, but we are where | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
we are, and the choice has to be made. Does he go further than his | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
previous position and support the second runway at gap which? That is | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
the only other credible option on the table. -- Gatwick. I will answer | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
that point but I have to say that the honourable member for tooting | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
seems to ebb and flow with the weather. He says one thing to one | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
audience and another to another audience. His position on Heathrow | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
is as authentic as Donald Trump's Herr! | :33:12. | :33:20. | |
LAUGHTER -- hair. I will answer nevertheless. The alternative to | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
monopoly, which is what is proposed as the first choice of the Howard | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
Davies commission, the alternative is competition. Competition works, | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
you only have to look at Gatwick to know it works. It has opened up | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
routes to places we were told it could not be open. Hanoi, Jakarta. | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
Two routes to China. Competition is the answer. Despite coming down in | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
favour of monopoly, Howard Davies has acknowledged it will stifle | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
growth at other airports. Had we encourage it? We invest in transport | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
links between the three main airports in London, and if and when, | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
as is likely, we have the capacity problem, it bans are not at | :34:05. | :34:20. | |
Heathrow, but in -- we have the capacity problem. Order. We have had | :34:21. | :34:29. | |
a problem with the clock. If the honourable gentleman is about to | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
take in intervention, I calculate that he has one minute and 50 | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
seconds including the intervention he is about to take. I have listened | :34:41. | :34:52. | |
to the organisation who came along and spoke and their concerns on the | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
expansion of the Heathrow runway but I don't think any of the questions | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
have been answered. The air monitoring system at Heathrow is | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
totally inadequate. For the record, I agree with the position expressed. | :35:11. | :35:18. | |
This is an issue for the SNP. This is a piece of national | :35:19. | :35:20. | |
infrastructure which requires the consent of the UK. Some colleagues | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
believe we need a giant mega-. Some colleagues will back Heathrow | :35:27. | :35:28. | |
expansion because they think the inadequate third runway will give | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
way to a fourth runway, and people on that basis are going to this | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
halfway route. They should bear in mind what air traffic control of the | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
airport commission -they would veto the construction of a fourth runway | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
on the basis that the West London skies are too crowded and they don't | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
believe it is possible to keep these guys save with a fourth runway. -- | :35:56. | :36:03. | |
skies. I would ask them to think again. The skies in that region | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
could not accommodate it. Regardless, I only have 30 seconds. | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
Regardless of the government's decision, I personally don't believe | :36:14. | :36:20. | |
Heathrow expansion will happen. The government decision will not make | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
the slightest bit of difference other than to delay a discussion | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
which has gone for too long. It is not politically deliverable or | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
legally deliverable either. I know that MPs and councillors and | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
countless residents across the very large flight path will make that | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
point for as long as they need to do. Thank you. Excellent speeches, | :36:39. | :36:47. | |
critically by the honourable lady for Twickenham and my honourable | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
friend for Brentwood and Isa with. -- Brentford. -- Isa with. I am | :36:52. | :37:00. | |
opposed to the third runway at Heathrow and I am not personally | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
convinced that there is a case for a third runway in the South East at | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
all. I have suggestions for more sensible way forward. Maximise the | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
use of existing capacity and one way we could do this is by realising | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
that we have a new generation of aircraft types coming in with | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
shorter landing requirements, so there will be more per hour, such as | :37:26. | :37:33. | |
the Boeing Dreamliner, which is more fuel efficient and less polluting. | :37:34. | :37:42. | |
At Stansted there is more capacity and that should be maximised. In my | :37:43. | :37:50. | |
hometown of Luton, Luton airport is due to expand its capacity from 10 | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
million to 20 million, and that is welcomed. We are talking about a | :37:56. | :38:03. | |
rail transit link between the station and airport and I'm eating | :38:04. | :38:05. | |
the airport director tomorrow to discuss these matters. -- and I'm | :38:06. | :38:13. | |
meeting. London Luton could become a satellite for Heathrow if there were | :38:14. | :38:20. | |
to be a fast rail link between Luton airport station and Heathrow, and | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
this could go through Cricklewood, and that will be a way forward. It | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
could be a hub satellite. There is a major case is the honourable friend | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
mentioned for making greater use of regional airports. He has mentioned | :38:38. | :38:45. | |
Birmingham. A two hour drive is not going to be effective at serving | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
London, but there are ways of dealing with it and I have spoken | :38:51. | :39:00. | |
about the probability... Am grateful -- I am grateful that he touched on | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
Birmingham Airport. Is he aware that HS2, which is not favoured by every | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
member in this House, will make the journey between Birmingham Airport | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
and Central London 36 minutes. It takes longer from Stansted and | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
possibly from Luton. I have a better is digestion -- I have a better | :39:20. | :39:26. | |
suggestion. My suggestion is for electrifying and upgrading the | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
Birmingham Snow Hill to London line, going through Banbury, and linking | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
to Crossrail, so you can get from Birmingham business district right | :39:38. | :39:39. | |
to Canary Wharf and also to Heathrow. This can be linked | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
directly to Birmingham Airport via Leamington Spa. A one-hour service | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
shuttle between Birmingham Airport and Heathrow Airport could make | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
Birmingham and London Heathrow satellites and hubs for each other. | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
A tremendous boon. One hour from Birmingham to Central London on a | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
modified, electrified line would be a way forward and make redundant the | :40:07. | :40:16. | |
need for HS2. That is my major suggestion but there is also the | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
possibility of other developments in other airports. In the north, | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
Manchester. My suggestion of electrifying that line, you can get | :40:27. | :40:34. | |
direct electrical services as long as we upgrade the Birmingham Snow | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
Hill line through to Heathrow and to Canary Wharf. That is a much more | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
sensible way forward and will benefit the West Midlands, other | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
regions of the country, and it would mean we take some of the pressure | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
off the South East both in terms of aircraft travel and also in terms of | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
economic development and housing as well, I hope. My suggestion, I hope | :41:01. | :41:10. | |
is hopeful. Can I congratulate my honourable friend on securing what | :41:11. | :41:19. | |
is a very important debate. I am delighted because as the Minister | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
for aviation when my honourable friend the Secretary of State set up | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
the Davis commission, I think it is long overdue that we have the | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
opportunity to debate what is a critically important issue. I have | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
to say that I am concerned because we have been discussing, as my | :41:38. | :41:46. | |
honourable friend said, for 50 years now the issue of runways and | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
airports in the vicinity of London and Beyonce, and we have now reached | :41:51. | :42:02. | |
a critical point. -- beyond. We all know if we have used Heathrow, | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
particularly long haul flights, that it is overcrowded and overcapacity. | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
You can easily see that when flying in long haul in the early morning, | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
with the stacking that goes on around London, which is not healthy | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
for landing, and not healthy for connectivity and travel. -- for | :42:23. | :42:29. | |
London. The time has come to stop talking and to come up with a viable | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
solution because I also think it is in our national interests and in our | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
economic interests to continue to ensure that it is in written that | :42:42. | :42:49. | |
the hub airport for Western Europe is and remains, and heaven knows, | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
Heathrow is under immense pressure from Frankfurt, from Amsterdam, from | :42:56. | :43:03. | |
Paris, and from even possibly Madrid to try and poach that position away | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
from us. It is not in our interest economically and not in our interest | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
for those people who travel outside the UK from Heathrow or Gatwick. | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
There have been proposals... Yes I will give way. With reference to his | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
point about Heathrow being congested, it is partly because | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
Heathrow is operating its two runways in alternate modes. If it | :43:29. | :43:35. | |
were not, and local people don't want change, but if it were not, it | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
would get 216 extra slot per day. I fully appreciate what he has just | :43:39. | :43:50. | |
said but the critical thing was that local people do not want it. The | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
pressures that there have been on the operations of Heathrow over many | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
years has been paramount. Some people have suggested that there | :44:02. | :44:09. | |
should be in effect a joint hub for the UK based on Heathrow and | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
Gatwick. That has been tried, it was tried in the 80s, it was tried in | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
the 90s and it was a failure not least because the major airlines | :44:20. | :44:26. | |
wanted the slots at London Heathrow. There is of course the alternative | :44:27. | :44:32. | |
that some of my honourable friend 's argued that it should be Gatwick. | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
The day this report with an independent report, it looked in | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
tremendous detail at all the alternatives including my honourable | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
friend the Mayor of London's proposal which I have to say I was | :44:51. | :44:59. | |
not in favour of. But they have as an independent body carrying out | :45:00. | :45:06. | |
their research, their analysis have come up with conclusions in what I | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
believe is a formidable document. Quite clearly, that will not find | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
favour with people particularly in parts of central London and | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
south-west London. Though I will add one caveat, given the sheer number | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
of jobs that are dependent on Heathrow as a thriving airport, not | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
simply in London but also in the Home Counties and beyond, I do find | :45:34. | :45:43. | |
it strange in many ways that their readers a potentially silent | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
majority of people who work there are reliant for their livelihoods on | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
Heathrow who remain silent and do not make their case, for what I | :45:53. | :46:02. | |
assume... I think it would be useful to hear more on both sides but what | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
is most important is that we finally put to bed this constant bickering, | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
this constant arguing and that we come up with a coherent proposal | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
that we can move forward with to protect our position as a supplier | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
of the hub airport for Western Europe. I also think we should look | :46:25. | :46:30. | |
and I accept this is as controversial but would need more | :46:31. | :46:33. | |
parties support, we need to look again at the way in which the | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
planning procedures operate in this country for major projects. It is | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
quite crazy that it takes so long to build a project and so as not to | :46:45. | :46:53. | |
antagonise too many of my honourable friend is today, let's exclude the | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
airport out of the equation, let's take a chess two, terminal five at | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
Heathrow, let's take a few of the other projects that are beneficial | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
to the economy. The amount of time it takes, the procedures you have to | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
far around with to get from a to B to C which is the eventual opening | :47:13. | :47:20. | |
is wrong and we need to reform them, not to cut the way people's | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
writes to object and have their concerns expressed but to make sure | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
they cannot be used to gerrymander the process to delay them and delay | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
them and delay them. To what it is worth, as I am coming to the end of | :47:37. | :47:43. | |
my speech, from a purely personal point of view, I think that Heathrow | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
is the compelling case for the expanded airport to meet our | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
capacity problems and to ensure we have a thriving and successful | :47:55. | :48:02. | |
aviation industry in this country. I will begin by briefly reflecting the | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
views of my honourable friend for Hayes and Hollington, not only | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
because he is unable to take part in this debate but because he has been | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
the foremost opponent of Heathrow expansion over many years. He says | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
that at the southern tip of his constituency is an 11th century | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
village which contains the oldest barn in England, it has an ancient | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
church and is the home to thousands of people and that many of these | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
homes would have stood for a thousand years and would be | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
demolished if a third runway is stored at Heathrow. Heathrow would | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
require 783 properties in the village but it also said it will buy | :48:46. | :48:53. | |
homes in the neighbouring villages. In total up to 4000 homes might need | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
to be acquired. There are parts of his constituency where air pollution | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
levels exceed the EU limits and where a lot of the pollution and | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
while a lot of the pollution comes from motor do cause, Heathrow is | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
being disingenuous in stating it will bring in a quarter of a million | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
more planes eg and expect pollution levels to fall. Their belief is one | :49:16. | :49:24. | |
of faith. Of course the impact of a third runway will not just be felt | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
in Hayes and Hollington but right across London and the Home Counties. | :49:29. | :49:35. | |
The noise figures are well-known, over 725,000 people are impacted by | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
noise from Heathrow, 28% of all people disturbed by aircraft noise | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
across Europe. Heathrow are stretching credibility to claim the | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
number of people affected by noise windfall with a quarter of a million | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
extra planes using the third runway yet that is what they say. The | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
economics of a third one way are equally questionable. The airports | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
commission could not make up its mind on the figures. A third runway | :50:02. | :50:09. | |
would benefit plc to the tune of billions but it's own advisers said | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
there were a number of difficulties with the model used to get that | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
figure using traditional tested modelling methods, a third runway | :50:17. | :50:23. | |
would bring benefits of 69 billion but is the cost of this benefits | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
such as noise and the cost of delivering the runway which mean | :50:28. | :50:36. | |
more. Given that cost of a third runway as well as damage to the | :50:37. | :50:43. | |
climate, my plea to government is not to be swayed by advertising | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
slogans and self-interested voices but to recognise the economy of the | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
UK is not dependent upon this destructive third runway at | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
Heathrow. Having said that, the time for talking is now over. We were | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
promised recently that an announcement as to which of the | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
choices of Gatwick or Heathrow would be made by the government before | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
Christmas and I'm sure the Minister can confirm that. I support the | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
Gatwick option, I think we have to make that choice and I'm sorry that | :51:17. | :51:24. | |
the member has chosen this rather furtive answer to which he gave to | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
my crush on. I think his bid for high office has... We have to back | :51:29. | :51:36. | |
Gatwick because that is the only other choice available but it is | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
also necessary as a driver of the south-west economy, but I say also | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
that my honourable friend was pleading the case for Birmingham. | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
For my constituents, when HS2 is built, it will be quicker to get to | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
Birmingham Airport than the Piccadilly line to Heathrow. There | :52:00. | :52:09. | |
are other options. HS2 will stop at Euston which is nowhere near | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
Heathrow. My scheme would provide for a direct running between | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
Birmingham and Heathrow and make Birmingham and Heathrow effectively | :52:19. | :52:25. | |
partner airports. Old folk in my constituency will be the major | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
interchange and that will be 31 minutes from Birmingham Airport and | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
I welcome and support that scheme. Heathrow has ruled the roost for too | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
long. Of course it could keep Stansted and Gatwick quiet when it | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
owned those airports and it also seem to manage to mesmerise | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
successive governments. It was only when my honourable friend for | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
Doncaster North became part of the Labour Party that the policy changed | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
and we hoped that when the Prime Minister said if no buts it would | :52:59. | :53:06. | |
change in the Conservative Party as well. I don't believe that was the | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
case and I believe the commission was set up under a false prospectus. | :53:11. | :53:19. | |
One only has to look in the change reference. The inevitable conclusion | :53:20. | :53:27. | |
to deliberately delayed over a period of time to take us beyond the | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
date of the election only came to where we are now. I do crew and | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
interest that a third runway has proposed would be directly over | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
Hammersmith and Shepherd's Bush and would subject communities in that | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
area to sustained aircraft noise. But the effect is Jim attic across | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
the whole of West London and it is unnecessary. -- dramatic. I would | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
praise the work Hammersmith and Fulham Council have done in many | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
years opposing this. But I would also praised them for having set up | :54:06. | :54:12. | |
an independent residence commission, which took evidence from | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
all parties and came to these conclusions. Yes, it said that we | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
would enjoy economic benefits and yes there would be an increased | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
choice of flights and destinations for residents and visitors, but the | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
additional flights overhead and the additional noise, additional | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
congestion, traffic, the effects on her quality, the failure to mitigate | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
noise properly, the safety concerns and the effect of all on residents | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
health and quality of life are price is not worth paying. No other | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
country would think of subjecting millions of people across west | :54:53. | :54:59. | |
London, 2 million people across the most densely populated part of this | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
country to that intolerable burden. This is insanity particularly when | :55:05. | :55:07. | |
there is an acceptable alternative and I hope the government makes its | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
decision and it will see sense on this matter. Of course there are | :55:12. | :55:19. | |
members on all sides of this house who have constituency interests in | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
this matter. So far we have heard from honourable members who have | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
concerns about the expansion of Heathrow. I also have constituency | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
concerns but about the expansion of Gatwick. Many of those sound similar | :55:36. | :55:43. | |
to those concerns raised by my honourable friends and others, but | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
those concerns must be beside the point. I think we should all agree | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
that we need to take this decision in the national interest for reasons | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
that were very well described by my honourable friend the member for | :55:58. | :56:04. | |
champs fled. I do have to make this point first of all, what is the | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
point at the risk of sounding like Basil faulty, what is the point of | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
setting up an airports commission at last cost to look in an expert away | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
at the right solution is then that preferred option, which the airports | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
commission recommends, is simply to be swept aside and west of all were | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
it to be swept aside for narrow political reasons. I'm afraid I have | :56:33. | :56:38. | |
to challenge the suggestion that is being made by some that in some way | :56:39. | :56:45. | |
the airports commission offered three equal options to the | :56:46. | :56:53. | |
government as to the airport that should be developed. Indeed I heard | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
with some alarm my honourable friend the Transport Secretary say on the | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
today programme that the Davis report and I quote, gave us three | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
options, my honourable friend did concede that Heathrow was the | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
preferred option but there is no reading that one can possibly make | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
of the airports commission that leads to a conclusion other than | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
Heathrow was the unequivocal recommendation of the commission. | :57:22. | :57:30. | |
Davis deads said Heathrow was the best answer, Heathrow presented the | :57:31. | :57:36. | |
strongest case, Gatwick was plausible but he then went on to | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
explain why Gatwick had not offered the same benefits. Those were | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
connectivity, that Gatwick is an airport that lies to the south of | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
London and is not connected to the transport network in the same way, | :57:52. | :57:57. | |
the rail link to Gatwick is already a joke and oversubscribed and is not | :57:58. | :58:04. | |
connected to HS2. Those were secondly the economic benefit. The | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
economic benefits that Dave is calculated for Heathrow were | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
considerably higher than those of Gatwick, up to ?147 billion in net | :58:15. | :58:22. | |
present value of net economic benefit by comparison to ?89 billion | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
of economic benefit to Gatwick. A considerable difference. Third | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
overall and I think in sense most significantly Davis pointed out that | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
Gatwick could not offered the connectivity of Heathrow and this I | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
think goes to the heart of the matter. We need a single hub airport | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
and that is what almost all of the airlines are saying and the great | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
danger now would be to produce a solution that does not deliver that | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
hard and to watch what happens to London as a consequence were we to | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
then lose business to our international competitors. New York | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
has two airports, where is the hub on the east coast of the US? It's at | :59:05. | :59:10. | |
Chicago, a far bigger airport than the New York offering, far more | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
connectivity and New York loses out as a consequence. Tokyo has two | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
airports. Where is the new hub, new business going in the far east? Not | :59:21. | :59:29. | |
to Tokyo but to Korea and although competition has been advantageous | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
and the break-up of the monopolistic ownership of airports has delivered | :59:33. | :59:38. | |
benefits to passengers, the idea that competition would be a good | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
thing, that somehow we could run two hub airports when all experience has | :59:44. | :59:47. | |
told us that is what the airlines do not want to do, that experience of | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
spitting business between Heathrow and Gatwick was such a disaster for | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
British Airways in the past, is one for the birds. The member for | :59:58. | :00:05. | |
Richmond Park said Gatwick is flying to Jakarta. Actually it would have | :00:06. | :00:10. | |
announced they will leave Gatwick and go back to Heathrow. Heathrow | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
offers a better connectivity for them in terms of a direct flight to | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
Jakarta. I think we would be making a serious mistake on the worst kind | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
of short-term decision-making is we ignored the unequivocal | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
recommendation of this report. In 1974, Labour camps in the Channel | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
Tunnel proposed then by a Conservative government. It | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
cancelled the map airport proposal and we are still paying the price. | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
The Channel Tunnel link was built decades later and way behind the | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
rail link was then way behind that of the French and we do not have a | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
hub airport. Lord Adonis described that as stupid, short-term is | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
decisions. We have a clear recommendation from the airports | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
commission. The evidence is clear. The government set up the report, | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
now is not the time to run away from it. | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
Heathrow is something that has been in the background for me for 43 | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
years. At people just north of Ealing Broadway if you were doing a | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
reading in assembly you would have to stop and the teacher would say, | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
hang on, and Concorde would fly past and then you could continue. -- at | :01:33. | :01:39. | |
primary school just north. I now live even more directly in the | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
flight path. People I went to school with had parents with jobs at | :01:44. | :01:51. | |
Heathrow, I now do as well, it is a significant local employer with | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
vital importance to the hotel of west London strategically. I have | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
good relationships with them as an employer, I went back to that | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
primary school on an engineering challenge with them, I have been up | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
the control tower and I recognise the figures, I think... There was a | :02:07. | :02:15. | |
3 Borough study that said 70,000 jobs, the one from Heathrow is even | :02:16. | :02:24. | |
higher, 76 thousand directly, even though indirectly. I like the fact I | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
can directly get a Piccadilly line train in 20 minutes but despite all | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
this and the fantastical figures that Heathrow promise will come with | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
expansion I can't support expansion at this time. It is in the wrong | :02:40. | :02:47. | |
place. If you were starting from scratch you would not build | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
London's main hub airport in a densely populated urban area which | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
brings a raft of problems like noise, air pollution and traffic | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
congestion. The main European hub is not in a compatible destination, | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
they built it over fields, and those impacts are already high, so how is | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
an extra runway going to solve that? Air pollution and traffic gridlock | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
are much worse than ever before. My honourable friend from Hammersmith | :03:21. | :03:22. | |
mentioned the villages in Harmondsworth, those places that | :03:23. | :03:31. | |
would be bulldozed to do this, thousands of homes. In expansion | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
there are no snakes than ladders. If you are doing an analysis of | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
environmental threat in terms of noise pollution and carbon | :03:42. | :03:53. | |
emissions, they far outweigh the sometimes even, 1 could say, | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
spurious claims that Heathrow makes. It already breaches the legal limits | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
on air quality and there is insufficient assurance to address | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
this. Gatwick, which is still on the table, has never broken legal air | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
quality limits and would remain within them even with an extra | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
runway. The figures are 18,000 people will be newly affected by | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
expansion to Gatwick, 320,000 for Heathrow, 17 times is the | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
difference. We are at a time when every pound of public expenditure | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
should be justified. To expand Gatwick would cost the Treasury | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
pretty much nothing, whereas for Heathrow it would be ?20 billion of | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
taxpayer subsidy. Many people have mentioned, Willie Walsh has said it | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
is unjustifiable in terms of costs. We constantly hear that Heathrow is | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
at capacity but Gatwick had 40 million passengers last year, which | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
the Airports Commission report said would not happen until 2024. It is | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
crying out for expansion. Yesterday evening I was at a public meeting at | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
a church in Chiswick and there were 200 people there. The organisers | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
said 300, maybe it is a medium between those figures, but they were | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
unanimous in their opposition to a third Heathrow runway. We have seen | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
flashbulbs that showed the strength of feeling against this. My maiden | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
speech said I wanted to be a voice for the suburbs. People yesterday | :05:38. | :05:45. | |
from Bedford Park Society said that is the world's first Garden suburb, | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
which was initially marketed by saying it was the world's most | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
healthy place. They feel this will make a mockery of that. It has been | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
mentioned that regional expansion is another possibility. We can even | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
think beyond our reliance on planes. The meetings we all have could be | :06:05. | :06:15. | |
done by telephone conferencing even. My friend the honourable member for | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
Bristol South says there is an airport there that could be | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
expanded, there is Stansted, which is echoingly empty compared to | :06:23. | :06:30. | |
Heathrow and Gatwick. Expansion at Manchester would fit the northern | :06:31. | :06:41. | |
powerhouse argument. It was 2012 before I was a candidate, even | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
before then for 20 years this has been talked about. I just hope this | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
point be pushed into the long grass further, any longer, and that the | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
right decision is made for West London. Going back to Bedford Park, | :06:58. | :07:05. | |
which are used to represent as a Conservative councillor, can I put | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
it to her that all these people who live there, and this is an affluent | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
area, not only knew that Heathrow was there when they moved there, but | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
given the nature of their placate -- occupations probably benefit from | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
the close proximity of Heathrow. I thank him for his intervention. It | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
depends when they moved there, there were people there yesterday who said | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
when they moved there Heathrow was a glimmer of what it is now, there | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
were not suddenly five terminals. I am not saying we should raise to the | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
ground Heathrow, I am saying it is important strategically for the | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
whole of West London, I like it being near me, but London is big | :07:51. | :07:58. | |
enough, it is a city with a population of 10 million soon, why | :07:59. | :08:06. | |
can't we have the two destinations, Gatwick and Heathrow, it is | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
completely possible. Those are the two in this report, or we could look | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
at regional alternatives, there are places other than just London in | :08:16. | :08:25. | |
this country. Funnily enough I think that there are some good things in | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
the report by the aviation commission. Two conclusions I agree | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
with, Britain needs more aviation capacity, as has been said by many | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
honourable friends this afternoon, and I think it is a disgrace for | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
instance that Frankfurt airport already serves 100 more destinations | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
than Heathrow, a wretched fact when we are trying to intensify trading | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
cooperation with China. There are about nine cities in China that you | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
cannot reach from the UK, only from airports in continental Europe. | :09:02. | :09:10. | |
Second point I agree with, and I don't think it is really universally | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
shared here this afternoon, is that the only way to achieve that greater | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
connectivity is to have a hard airport and you need to have the | :09:20. | :09:29. | |
volume of passengers to build the wealth of destinations. -- hub | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
airport. The bigger the hub, -- the spokes, the bigger the hub. The only | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
conclusion that has been come to is that that solution doesn't lie at | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
Heathrow. It can't provide a long-term solution because it is so | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
geographically constrained. It is basically in the wrong place for | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
expansion. The environmental impacts and drawbacks have been well | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
rehearsed this afternoon. I would point out to the Member for | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
Aldershot that of course it is not just existing Londoners who would be | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
affected by the increase in noise, although they might not appreciate | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
planes coming in at 4am, which is what would happen if the night | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
flight ban was overturned. There would be at least according to the | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
aviation commission 150,000 more Londoners who would be affected by | :10:32. | :10:39. | |
the expansion of the airport, a third runway. According to some | :10:40. | :10:48. | |
sources 300,000 more and that is quite contrary to the government's | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
expressed policy on aviation expansion. The second problem of | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
course is not just noise, it is the fumes and pollution, and if you look | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
at what will happen, many honourable members have already made this | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
point, but it is absolutely clear that the limit values on the Bath | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
Road will be well exceeded, there will be very serious legal | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
challenges. I think they would be insuperable legal challenges. To | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
build this great generator of noise and pollution in West London would | :11:24. | :11:31. | |
cost far more than is currently estimated, the excess transport | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
costs alone are estimated by TfL to be between ?10 billion and ?15 | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
billion, on top of the ?18.6 billion that the aviation commission has | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
estimated for the cost of the third runway it self. Thank you for giving | :11:46. | :11:53. | |
way. It has been estimated that surface transport costs for Heathrow | :11:54. | :12:01. | |
would cost ?5 billion of public money, whereas my preferred option | :12:02. | :12:09. | |
of Gatwick would cost zero. We could use that ?5 billion elsewhere on | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
much-needed surface transport, such as a channel extension to Saturn. A | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
very good point, and you will have heard from the Chancellor's economic | :12:23. | :12:31. | |
plan that the extension to Sutton is ready much in our programme. Nobody | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
has factored in the extra costs of the chance board, the government | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
says they won't pay, the airlines say they won't pay. -- costs of the | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
transport. I think this proposal is not able to be delivered. My final | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
point, even if a third runway were to be completed, and it couldn't get | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
done until 2030 by the aviation commission's own admission, it will | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
be full at the point of completion, and it doesn't answer the exam | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
question in the sense that it doesn't deliver the extra | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
connectivity that we all want. It does not hook up British business | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
with those extra destinations in China, let alone Latin America and | :13:21. | :13:28. | |
Africa. According to the aviation commission's own figures the number | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
of new long haul destinations would only increase by seven x 2030, the | :13:32. | :13:39. | |
number of domestic routes, to answer the point made by some Scottish | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
friends, would go down from seven to four. There RCTs in the United | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
Kingdom that would lose their connection to our hub airport. -- | :13:53. | :14:01. | |
there are cities. I thank him for mentioning the connectivity to | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
Scotland. Does he believe this should be an English only matter, | :14:05. | :14:11. | |
does he believe that it should be for UK Parliament as a whole to | :14:12. | :14:12. | |
decide? Nobody in Scotland would wish to be | :14:13. | :14:23. | |
disadvantaged by the construction of a third runway at Heathrow. That | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
would disadvantage community is not just in Scotland but other regional | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
cities in the UK who would lose connectivity as a result of going | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
down the wrong route, because as I say, by 2030, Heathrow, runway three | :14:39. | :14:46. | |
would be full and the pressure would be an as my honourable friend for | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
Richmond Park Whiteley said, I probably ought to bring my remarks | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
to a close, as he Whiteley said in his excellent speech, the pressure | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
would be overwhelming then for us to build a fourth runway at Heathrow | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
which would be a total environmental catastrophe and where would we be | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
then? What would we have done? Who would have blighted the lives of | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
hundreds of thousands of Londoners and not just those who under the | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
existing flight path but people in Pimlico, whose cross, south London, | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
Chelsea, Shepherd's Bush, Hammersmith who have no idea of the | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
scourge of visitors upon them by this appalling decision. We will | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
have greatly worsen air quality in the greatest city on earth in breach | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
of our international obligations, we will have spent colossal sums of | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
taxpayers money to create a short-term solution that will not | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
address the problem of Britain's lack of connectivity and we will | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
find ourselves then were we to make that appalling mistake of having to | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
address the same long-term questions that we seem determined to shirk | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
now. That is why I think it is time to pause, to avoid making a | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
disastrous mistake. There are better, more practical solutions on | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
the table. Indeed, you know what they are. You know what they are. I | :16:22. | :16:29. | |
do not have time to rehearse them now but they are infinitely | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
preferable. They do deliver the long-term solution, they are | :16:34. | :16:40. | |
environmental sensible. By the way they could be achieved at roughly a | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
comfortable cost and let me tell you, in conclusion, the Prime | :16:45. | :16:51. | |
Minister was absolutely right when he said in 2009 that he wanted to | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
oppose a third runway at Heathrow. He was right to commit us, I voted | :16:57. | :17:03. | |
for that, many elected on that manifesto. Order! I want to add a | :17:04. | :17:14. | |
little bit of selfish flavour to this being from Northern Ireland. I | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
note the point of how much it will blight so to members areas but I | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
also like the point that the honourable friend made of national | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
interest if we could look at this police from national interest, we in | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
Northern Ireland need all the routes we can get and it looks to us that | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
Heathrow is the best linkage that we can have and why am I speaking today | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
because I have Belfast International Airport in my patch and I know that | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
in Northern Ireland the very lifeblood of every single thing we | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
do their depends on flying. If you cannot fly from Northern Ireland or | :17:57. | :18:04. | |
indeed the con that it is a half day journey so the whole of our | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
businesses, the whole of our lives link by flight to major hubs. I | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
accept what he is saying but there are excellent services from Luton to | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
Belfast and looting is connected to London. It is not a problem. I | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
accept his point of view. I look at the choice of Heathrow, Stansted, | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
Gatwick. Heathrow most of the time is the most comfortable one to do | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
everything because it is the closest to the industry and getting here | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
quickly, but I do accept it could be any of them and I think we would | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
need extra runways at each one to build hubs throughout the UK because | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
we will find flying expands and becomes more and more throughout the | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
UK and the longer we take with this sort of debate, we will not have any | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
decisions taken. I know what he means. It is not only from the point | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
of view from the honourable gentleman, it is also from the | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
perspective of a CEO from a Chinese company, being able to go to their | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
wheat or airports and going straight to Heathrow. I want to see what we | :19:21. | :19:30. | |
see as the northern powerhouse, Northern Ireland being the one that | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
thrives but we seem to borrow the name from others by 52% of those | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
travelling by air from Northern Ireland now go via Dublin. 52%. If | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
you think how much business that is going out to the UK going to | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
Ireland, going away, the Irish are very clever, they have no air | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
passenger duty so it is cheaper to go that way. It is easier to drive | :19:57. | :20:04. | |
to Dublin and fly than it is to fly from Belfast to Manchester, | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
Heathrow. If you want to keep things within the union, we need that help. | :20:08. | :20:16. | |
They also do the visas direct to America so it is quicker to get to | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
America from Dublin and soon they will have a direct. Railway line | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
that will take you there. Everything Ireland does it does extremely well | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
to improve their connectivity. We need that, that means I need you to | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
take on board that we need the decision quickly because that is | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
what will help us. One of the report mentions 179,000 jobs for the whole | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
of the UK. I was looking at that to see how many would come our way. I | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
was told it would only be 5000 but we had 40,000 new jobs in the last | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
few years. We need every job we can get for Northern Ireland to improve, | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
thrive and throw off the curses of the past. Belfast International | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
Airport has about 4.5 million passengers going through it every | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
year and 44,000 tonnes of freight and a mass of business. If I am | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
really trying to get a point across today, we need that connectivity, | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
want to push the union point of view, we need your help, please, do | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
not take too long in making decisions because it matters to us. | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
Thank you. I think I'm right in saying that on the first member to | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
speak in this debate who is not from the south-east of the country and | :21:43. | :21:45. | |
therefore can hopefully bring a slightly different perspective. And | :21:46. | :21:56. | |
bring a different English perspective to this debate, because | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
as has already been said, this debate really has to be about what | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
is right for Britain for the UK. It cannot just be be based on the views | :22:06. | :22:12. | |
of people in the South or particularly those close to either | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
of the airports. He needs to be based on what is right for our | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
nation. It is clear that aviation connectivity is going to be critical | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
to our economic success. A recent report by a robust global market | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
forecast predicted that aviation will grow by 4% a year for the next | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
20 years and that we will need an additional 30,000 aircraft to be | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
built during that time. Economic growth, the growth in middle classes | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
around the world, affordability and ease of travel, urbanisation and | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
tourism are all factors that are increasing to the demand on aviation | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
and connectivity between people and regions is going to become more and | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
more wine issue. Increasing urbanisation that will lead to the | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
doubling of the number of megacities in the world is going to mean that | :23:09. | :23:15. | |
99% of the world's long haul traffic will be between all through those | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
cities. If we want Britain to remain connected to these emerging markets | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
and keep the British economy growing and continue to play our role as one | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
of the world's leading economies, it is imperative that we have the | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
ability to transport passengers and high-value goods between the cities. | :23:35. | :23:43. | |
I find it incredible as recently elected member of this house that we | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
are having this debate now. I find it incredible that we have not | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
addressed this issue long ago as has been said by other members, we have | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
been debating this issue for 20 years, decades and Britain has | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
fallen further and further behind as a direct result of cars not grasping | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
this issue. We have lost ground on other countries. Other countries are | :24:07. | :24:13. | |
building their capacity, we see this in Germany, in the Middle East. I | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
was recently at Istanbul airport and could not build the expansion and | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
modernisation that had taken place there. If we are looking to the | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
future, we have to address this issue and make sure that Britain | :24:27. | :24:37. | |
keeps pace. He's right to save that we have been debating this for a | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
long time. Would he shared that -- my frustrating that we have did | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
baited central London's connection to the rest of the world rather than | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
the rest of Britain. I agree with him. This needs to be what is right | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
for Britain and part of that debate and decision needs to be about | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
connecting the regions to world markets. It is not just about | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
connectivity to London. It is about connecting the regions of the UK to | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
world markets and that's where I believe Heathrow is by far the best | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
opportunity to achieve that. I am personally of the view that this | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
debate is actually about which airport we expand first. I think we | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
will look back in 30 or 40 years' time and wish we had done both | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
Heathrow and Gatwick now because aviation capacity will be required | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
more and more in the years ahead. Heathrow operates currently at 90% | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
capacity and this means that it only needs the site is Fletch, whether | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
that be bad weather conditions or some other issue to create severe | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
problems there and it also means they are unable to accommodate the | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
growth that we need to see so that we as a nation can continue to | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
benefit from connectivity to the emotion markets around the world. I | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
believe we would not only be foolish to not go ahead and make a decision | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
now but future generations will look back and view it as an almost | :26:12. | :26:20. | |
criminal waste of opportunity. If this was France and France have | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
produced the Davis report there would be no argument. They were just | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
steam roller it through. I thank my honourable friend for the | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
intervention. He makes a point that I was about to come onto although I | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
have no desire personally to live in France all to operate in the way the | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
French sometimes do but I will make the point that we have spent ?20 | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
million and three years in coming up with an independent report. It would | :26:51. | :26:57. | |
seem completely foolish to not take the view of that independent report | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
and I'm aware that members today have challenged different aspects of | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
it and crashed on the veracity some of the data but at the end of the | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
day, we have an independent report that has taken a great deal of time | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
and cost a lot of money and I believe we should take the clear | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
view that that report gives us. Just to remind my honourable friend that | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
the people of France did indeed face the same problem that we have in | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
London and decided to build a huge new hub airport away from the | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
central accommodation. I'm well aware of his views on this issue. | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
However, I recently had a meeting with the air traffic control people | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
who said to me that an additional airport to the east of London would | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
create some very real challenges in terms of air traffic control because | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
it would conflict with air traffic from the Netherlands. I am not sure | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
that is the answer. I will give way one more time. Would he agree they | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
other challenge would be providing well connections as it would be | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
impossible to drill a hole under London to connect with that airport? | :28:14. | :28:20. | |
I agree. I represent the constituency of the key and Cornwall | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
and it is clearly the view of the vast majority of people and the | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
business community in Cornwall that Heathrow clearly offers us the best | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
opportunity to connect our region to world markets, not just about | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
passengers but about goods and the desire to export some of our goods | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
to walk markets and Heathrow offers us the best opportunity to achieve | :28:43. | :28:49. | |
that and we need to remember this is not just about passengers. Heathrow | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
is our biggest support by valuing the whole country, around ?100 | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
billion worth of goods come in and out of Heathrow every year. It is | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
for bigger than any container port in the country and we need to | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
recognise this. This is not just about passengers, it is also about | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
goods and the opportunities to exploit. In summing up, first of | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
all, we need to make a decision, we cannot procrastinate any longer | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
about this issue. We need to make a clear decision and I really trust | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
the government are going to come forward with a clear decision in the | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
next few weeks as they have promised. This decision must be | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
about what is right for our nation and not just taking one the views of | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
a few people in the immediate localities. It has to be what is | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
right for our nation. Thirdly, let's get on with it. I am personally | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
backing Heathrow. It offers the best option for our country and | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
particularly for my region but let's just get on with it. | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
We will have to drop to five minutes. I must apologise to | :30:01. | :30:07. | |
colleagues for not having been able to be at this debate, although I was | :30:08. | :30:14. | |
able to listen to contributions, like the excellent one from the | :30:15. | :30:16. | |
honourable member from Chelmsford earlier. The honourable member who | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
has just spoken suggests that opposition to Heathrow is from the | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
people who are next door to Heathrow. I speak as representing a | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
constituency that is closer to Heathrow than most of the people who | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
have objected to it. If the Davies commission proposals are implemented | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
the run all runways will actually come -- the runways will come into | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
the borough of Slough, but my constituents recognise that that the | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
prosperity of slow depends on the prosperity of Heathrow. I speak to | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
companies in Slough who talk about the way they depend upon Heathrow. | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
Slough includes within its boundaries more European | :31:04. | :31:11. | |
headquarters of multinational cos then Northern Ireland, Wales and | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
Scotland put together, and that is because of the proximity to | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
Heathrow. They say that their boards are worried about staying in the UK, | :31:21. | :31:29. | |
and that is because they are worried about the future of Heathrow. My | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
first point is, make a decision fast, because if we don't have a | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
clear conclusion supporting the Davies commission proposals soon | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
then what will happen is inward investment, which is really | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
significant and necessary for the UK economy, will be seriously affected. | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
The one thing I think the Davies commission didn't deal with | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
sufficiently well is the issue of air quality. There is clearly a | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
problem around air quality around Heathrow, but it is not all created | :32:02. | :32:14. | |
by the airport. The M4 junction is the most polluted in Europe. It is | :32:15. | :32:23. | |
traffic that contributes to the air around the airport. We have an | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
incinerator in the area which adds to the poor air quality around the | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
airport. As we deal with these proposals I hope that we can expect | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
the government to put in place some things that really make a difference | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
to air quality. In my view the most urgent is the Western rail link into | :32:41. | :32:47. | |
Heathrow, and electrified rail link... When the Labour government | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
discussed the Heathrow third runway I refused to back it until I got a | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
commitment from the then minister that we would electrify the great | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
Western Railway line. In addition to that we need rail links from the | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
West are into Heathrow because the failure to do that is one of the | :33:08. | :33:16. | |
reasons, 1 of the important reasons for the poor air quality around the | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
airport. One thing members have said is it is not able to be delivered | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
because there are so many people under the flight path and so on. The | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
reason why those people are there is because of the prosperity generated | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
by the airport. If we were to move the airport elsewhere the same thing | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
would happen to an alternative location. I think on both sides of | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
the House we all recognise that for the prosperity of the UK we need | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
people to have work, to be able to trade, to have successful inward | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
investment, and frankly the only option on the table which really | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
delivers on all those things is Heathrow. When I was first elected | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
Member of Parliament for Slough Heathrow was the most competitive | :34:08. | :34:14. | |
airport in Europe. It now isn't, we have lost international destinations | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
because it is so crowded. There is now no direct flight to garner from | :34:19. | :34:30. | |
the UK at the moment. -- Ghana. People are going from sheep all and | :34:31. | :34:41. | |
shoulder gold to -- shows the goal. International passengers want to use | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
Heathrow. Why? Because of the English language. It is the unspoken | :34:48. | :34:56. | |
international exporter of the UK and nobody's alternative really will | :34:57. | :34:58. | |
deliver the connectivity and competitiveness in which an expanded | :34:59. | :35:08. | |
Heathrow will do. First of all may I thank the honourable lady, the | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
Member for Twickenham, for initiating this debate today. We can | :35:12. | :35:19. | |
see why on election night she confronted so many of us with her | :35:20. | :35:28. | |
feistiness. I have to say that as a member of the transport Select | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
Committee I am and I love out supporter of a third runway at | :35:32. | :35:40. | |
Heathrow. -- an avowed supporter. I find it frustrating that when we | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
have one of the biggest airports in the world, with a proven track | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
record of success, at the edge of one of the greatest cities, if not | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
the greatest cities in the world -- the greatest city in the world, we | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
prevaricate with glorified NIMBY -ism. I would say to the members for | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
London, it is not about you, it is about the future of the UK. Some of | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
the stances some people have taken in recent years I actually find | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
quite frustrating, it is starting to wear thin, because it is not about | :36:18. | :36:25. | |
electoral campaigns or may the electoral future of the UK. | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
Absolutely right, my constituency is not affected by the airport as it is | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
or is likely to be, but what I said to the honourable member, this is | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
about evidence. If he actually reads this report he will have to | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
recognise that most of the conclusions are undermined by the | :36:46. | :36:47. | |
evidence inside the report. This is one of the most flawed public | :36:48. | :36:55. | |
Holocene documents ever created, we should base it on evidence. -- | :36:56. | :37:02. | |
public policy. I have read the reports and Davies has made a very | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
strong recommendation as to a preference, and it is very | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
frustrating when we hear time and again a lack of clear options being | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
provided by those who are viscerally opposed to Heathrow. We have heard | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
in the chamber today, let's have more reviews and discussions, kick | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
it into the long grass, even threats that it will never be built because | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
of legal challenge. I won't give way. I find it quite frustrating | :37:29. | :37:37. | |
that issues of our National infrastructure, that impact not just | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
London. Our constituents, are being sucked out to the lowest common do | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
nominate of what is right for a handful of constituencies in West | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
London. I really have most support the for people... I will give way. | :37:53. | :37:59. | |
Will he not agree that one of the most damning points in the report is | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
the lack of connectivity on a domestic level and on long haul | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
destinations? I would like to pay tribute to Heathrow on that point | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
because from March of next year Heathrow are introducing a | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
connectivity flight to Inverness. If you build a third runway, and I | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
don't accept some of the arguments I have heard in this chamber today, | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
you build a third runway, increase capacity, increase the capacity for | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
improving regional collectivity. People who said there would be no | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
improvement, it is a herring. If you are someone of 70 years of age or | :38:42. | :38:51. | |
less, you have grown up with Heathrow Airport are there and if | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
you grew up beside what was the busiest International Airport in the | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
world you shouldn't be surprised by aircraft noise, by planes flying | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
overhead. That's what happens if you choose to live beside what was the | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
busiest International Airport in the world. Guess what, it is no longer | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
the busiest International Airport in the world because governments of | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
several hues have failed to take a decision. Spurious things like Boris | :39:21. | :39:28. | |
Island, and I really do admire the Member for a bridge on many things | :39:29. | :39:37. | |
-- member for Uxbridge on many things, but it is kicking it down | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
the road so that no decision will be taken. Will my honourable friend | :39:43. | :39:50. | |
also bear in mind that with improved technology and advances in | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
engineering the noise of plane engines is decreasing as well, | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
helping to address that problem. The former transport minister makes a | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
very good point, aircraft, like the A350 and are not only is it 23% less | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
fuel emissions, 60% less noise emissions. People who grow up living | :40:11. | :40:19. | |
beside an aircraft when aircraft were far more noisy, the noise | :40:20. | :40:28. | |
argument, and also the pollution argument, with far more efficient | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
engines, doesn't hold up. Anybody who flies into Heathrow, I would | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
urge them to look at a TV screen above your seats, do you fly | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
straight in or do you circle in figures of eight for half an hour, | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
40 minutes, pumping pollution into the air? Why? Because the airport | :40:47. | :40:55. | |
can't go straight in, it can't land. What makes you think that in three, | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
four, five years' time, if it does get built, and some opinions think | :41:01. | :41:09. | |
it never will, the money spent on the consultation is totally useless, | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
but does he think that after a period of times you won't end up | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
with long haul flights coming in and circling and the regional airports | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
then get squeezed out further. Short interventions! The point is, I am a | :41:26. | :41:36. | |
passionate believer in regional airports, I have an airport in my | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
constituency, so I won't bow to that one, but I firmly believe that the | :41:40. | :41:48. | |
importance -- in the importance of Heathrow being the only realistic, | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
viable, deliverable harbour airport, and in terms of transport | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
connectivity to London, we have Heathrow express bus stop -- hub | :41:57. | :42:04. | |
airport. We have the M 40, the aged 25, connecting into the regions of | :42:05. | :42:13. | |
the UK. -- the M25. We have Crossrail, we have HS2. If that is | :42:14. | :42:21. | |
not true regional collectivity I don't know what is and anybody who | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
suggests to me that building a second runway at Gatwick would | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
deliver that form of service regional collectivity I am afraid is | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
kidding themselves on and it is for the birds. We keep hearing from a | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
sedentary position members from well-heeled constituencies opposed | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
to this airport. My constituency and many constituencies in the regions | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
of the UK will be delighted at the opportunity for such jobs, | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
opportunity and growth. They would bite your hand off, yet we have been | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
pulled down into very narrow debates about what is right for West | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
London. What is right for the UK is that we build a third runway. What | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
is right for the UK is that we identify Heathrow as the hub airport | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
for Western Europe. But as night red right for UK is that we have the | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
clarity in government decision, we take a timely decision and we get on | :43:27. | :43:36. | |
with it. Let's get it built. May I said to my honourable friend who has | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
just spoken, I believe in getting on with things and clarity, they are | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
good. Getting it right is better. The problem with this report is it | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
gets it fundamentally wrong. That is why the Member for Wimbledon in a | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
powerful intervention made the point that this Davies report, yes, | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
certainly it produces options which are there on the table. They are not | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
able to be delivered because it is so full of internal contradictions | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
which have been well set out by the Member for Richmond Park and the | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
Member for Twickenham and the Member for Brentford. Among others. It is | :44:15. | :44:24. | |
so full of contradictions that it will be delayed time and again | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
because it is a recipe for judicial review. Attempting to expand | :44:30. | :44:37. | |
Heathrow will be a field day for well he'd -- well-heeled West London | :44:38. | :44:40. | |
lawyers and won't deliver the connectivity required for this part | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
of the country. It is a blind alley, the process is flawed, the | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
consultation is fundamentally flawed, it is not in my judgment | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
legally sound. The second point is that it is also economically flawed. | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
It is clear that the case doesn't stack up, Willie Walsh doesn't make | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
the points he has made for the sake of his own health and he is not | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
economically illiterate... When they acquired British Midland, | :45:08. | :45:18. | |
it was to get their hands on Heathrow slots. Having spent a vast | :45:19. | :45:25. | |
lot of money, he does not want it to weaken his case. It is about one | :45:26. | :45:34. | |
individual constituency or one part of London. -- it is not about. The | :45:35. | :45:43. | |
third runway at Heathrow is but a sticking plaster which will be | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
overcapacity and there will be a need for a fourth runway, which will | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
not be achievable in legal or environmental terms because the | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
Supreme Court judgment has changed the view of things and we cannot | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
ignore that. We will have sunk a huge amount of capital cost into | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
something that is a white elephant by the time it is open. That is not | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
getting on with things. That is not making something that is | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
deliverable. What I do think we need to do is to move forward. They is an | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
alternative. Heathrow may well have been an optimal place for an airport | :46:23. | :46:30. | |
in about 1948, 1950, but at that stage London was literally a | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
shrinking city, its population was reduced in. No one anticipated the | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
massive population growth that would come into London during that | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
period. It is no longer in an appropriate place and therefore we | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
have to look at alternatives. I am not saying we should close Heathrow | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
down, it's an important part of the West London economy but there are | :46:55. | :47:02. | |
more readily viewable alternatives. My constituents like many of those | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
who wrote a letter to the Daily Telegraph today are not all from | :47:08. | :47:16. | |
West London. But we are still affected by the flight paths. What | :47:17. | :47:37. | |
we do need to do is get on with the option which can be most quickly | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
delivered. None is perfect, I might not have started from here, I have | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
sympathy for the member that perhaps if we had looked at the found this | :47:49. | :47:55. | |
option it might have been attractive. Revisiting will not help | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
us deliver. I take the view that the Gatwick option is the right one | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
because it is deliverable. No doubt there will be challenges but the | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
level of potential for legal challenges is less around Gatwick. | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
The issues of dispute are significantly more discreet and it | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
is therefore by Schmallenberg elite deliverable. We have a better chance | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
of that being put forward on time and Gatwick does not exclude the | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
possibility of other more imaginative options being developed | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
for the future, but it does give us an immediate capacity increase in | :48:34. | :48:35. | |
which does not prejudge other ideas going forward and neither does it | :48:36. | :48:41. | |
involve anything like the amount of sunk cost in a potentially unviable | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
option that the additional runway at Heathrow would. All of those are | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
good options for opposing it and the final reason is, I fought an | :48:50. | :49:01. | |
election in 2010 saying I was opposed to Heathrow expansion, I | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
fought to elections in the London assembly saying I oppose Heathrow | :49:07. | :49:14. | |
expansion, call me old-fashioned, I would rather like to try and keep my | :49:15. | :49:26. | |
promises. I hope we can do so. Thank you for allowing me to respond. It | :49:27. | :49:35. | |
is not the answer that I would favour and nor is it the answer that | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
would be favoured by many of my friends, colleagues and neighbours | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
in West Kent and indeed in Sussex. It is not the answer for the simple | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
reason that it is the wrong answer. It is the wrong answer for us in the | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
London area, in the south-east, it is wrong for the country and it is | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
wrong for our economy. It is not going to answer the question of | :50:01. | :50:02. | |
economic development, the question of replacing ship all, it will not | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
answer the challenge that was so eloquently put by my honourable | :50:09. | :50:15. | |
friend who spoke about the need for hub airports. It is wrong, it is | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
wrong and just because you don't like Heathrow does not mean the | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
answer is Gatwick. ?20 million has been spent on this report, three | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
years has been spent on this report and it is not going to be, sorry it | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
should not be reversed simply in a few words in this house. This has | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
meant many years of effort and it is now the right time for us to settle | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
down and get on with it because when you look around at the economic | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
development of the UK, when you look around at the challenges that | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
globalisation presents cars, I hear people who say why can't we use | :50:56. | :51:01. | |
Skype, why can't we use video conferencing? The simple answer is | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
we are humans, we interact, we meet, we talk. This is how we do business, | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
communicate and it is essential we travel and part of that demands we | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
get to the places we need to be and why I like the idea of Birmingham, | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
while I would like to see more investment in Manchester, Glasgow | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
and Edinburgh, the reality is that we are all lowered here to this City | :51:26. | :51:34. | |
of London and it is here where so much of our business is done. I wish | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
it were not so because in my own community of Tunbridge and Western | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
morning, there is so much more opportunity for people to enjoy a | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
proper life that is not ruined by the traffic and the smog that we all | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
know of here. He is making a powerful case for his constituents | :51:53. | :52:00. | |
and for the UK. New York doesn't have a hub airport. There is no | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
other hub airport anywhere in the world restricted to three runways so | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
there is this contradiction inside the report. New York has three | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
airports. We could also run the New York solution in London. He makes an | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
excellent point but even he would recognise that if one were looking | :52:21. | :52:27. | |
at the US, we would look at around the attire 50 states and say where | :52:28. | :52:37. | |
is that Dan of Mannan and we would say it is Chicago. Chicago O'Hare | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
really has the appeal that productivity comes from the hub | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
airport. I will leave it at that because I know there is enormous | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
pressure on time but I am going to say that having had a neighbour like | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
Gatwick for a number of years and the what a bad neighbour it is, how | :52:55. | :52:59. | |
they have changed routes, narrow flight paths, disrupted lives, | :53:00. | :53:06. | |
ruined asleep, including that of my most immediate constituent, my wife | :53:07. | :53:15. | |
and how they have made the lives of many people and absolute misery. I | :53:16. | :53:21. | |
would urge members to think really hard before rejecting the amount of | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
work that has gone into this and rejecting this opportunity for | :53:26. | :53:28. | |
economic growth for the UK and for us to take our rightful place back | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
is the absolute centre of the international community. We have a | :53:34. | :53:41. | |
duty to deliver a modern, competitive economy for ourselves | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
and future generations and these decisions will always be tough but | :53:46. | :53:48. | |
they need to be taken in interests of the country. The south-east and | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
needs additional runway capacity, that is clear with the Howerd's | :53:54. | :54:02. | |
report noting that there have been no new full-length one-way spilled | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
in the south-east since the 1940s. While air travel growth is forecast | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
to slow to a median estimate of 2% per year until 2050 compared to old | :54:13. | :54:19. | |
growth rates of 5%, UK passenger numbers are forecast to increase | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
from 225 million today to 315 million in 2030. If you overlay that | :54:26. | :54:33. | |
date with current capacity, it shows Heathrow and Gatwick at 100th of -- | :54:34. | :54:46. | |
100% capacity. Half of the UK population uses air travel each | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
year, that will only grow and as we have a growing international middle | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
class I want Britain to be one of their destinations of choice. If we | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
want to continue as the global economy that we are, these are | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
constraints to growth. Growth that was much good news yesterday in the | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
spending review and that growth is predicated upon our very global | :55:08. | :55:15. | |
economy. We faced losing out as a global centre allowing | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
point-to-point travel, particularly connecting the UK with the new | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
dynamic economies of the world if we do not get going and we are not | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
already lagging behind Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris. In Dubai, it | :55:26. | :55:32. | |
ranked as the 1990 in the world in terms of international passengers. | :55:33. | :55:42. | |
By 2011 it was fourth. We're seeing similar meteoric growth at | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
Istanbul, rapidly becoming an international hub but I am not | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
speaking today to suggest Heathrow is the only answer or to discount | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
Gatwick. The operating companies with each have made their arguments | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
but the economics of expansion of the country are obvious but what I | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
do want to emphasise is the benefit of regional airports, particularly | :56:06. | :56:08. | |
in the shorter and intermediate sector and I note the great benefits | :56:09. | :56:16. | |
of Southampton of the spending review yesterday. Returning to the | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
Heathrow versus Gatwick are given, this is the matter forward the | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
members in those areas to overcome and there are obvious connectivity, | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
air quality and noise issues to consider but what I am here to put | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
on the table is a relief valve on current pressures and whatever is | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
decided the lead time before expansion will be a decade, a decade | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
which will fall further behind in the international aviation league | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
and too often in the UK we are behind the curve whether it is on | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
energy generation, railways, roads and indeed airport provision and | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
that is a criticism of all governments in the last 30 years. To | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
increase out his capacity and to develop and accommodate growth, we | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
have Manston airport just 80 miles away from where we are. It is ready | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
to go and read it to go within months to take rate only aircraft | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
from both Heathrow and Gatwick, to the new roots in the low-cost market | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
and why not as an image either solution to open up routes. It will | :57:20. | :57:27. | |
never be a major hub airport but as members may know, the airport was | :57:28. | :57:34. | |
closed a year ago and has sat unused with now an uncertain future. In | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
both parts of Thanet there with a desire for aviation activity to | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
recommends and whether it is the opportunities for emergency | :57:45. | :57:50. | |
provision and if you recall a virgin incident last year, it brought | :57:51. | :57:59. | |
Gatwick for eight hours. I bet numbers must wonder why has it not | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
happened and very simply be local authority having been elected on a | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
single strong policy of promising back-to-back CPO have simply given | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
up and backed out of the deal. So there we are, a huge one-way sitting | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
idle, well-connected can take any size of aircraft and it is doing | :58:21. | :58:27. | |
nothing. He makes a powerful point and certainly from our experience, I | :58:28. | :58:34. | |
am aware of the benefits Manston would bring. Fortunately, | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
Conservative controlled Kent Council takes a much more progressive and | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
sensible view of the value to economic growth in this area and the | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
development of Mansell will be consistent to economic powers. I | :58:48. | :58:57. | |
agree. It has had a bit of a mixed bag in support of Manston but it is | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
a key driver for economic development. I give way. As my | :59:02. | :59:10. | |
honourable friend both know, it is an emergency airstrip in the Second | :59:11. | :59:13. | |
World War and a very long one so can take the biggest aeroplanes that | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
could actually land there so it's quite a good idea. | :59:19. | :59:24. | |
I thank him for his useful comments. Just to bring this to somewhat of a | :59:25. | :59:34. | |
close, this is an appeal from this chamber for potential operators to | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
come and look again at what Manston has, what it can offer as a regional | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
airport that can provide in the next ten years some immediate relief from | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
the lack of capacity that we have on our doorstep at both Heathrow and | :59:50. | :59:56. | |
Gatwick. But really to bring this to a final, whatever the decision is | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
for this country, Gatwick or Heathrow, the economic growth and | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
survival of this country as a major lowball place needs solutions and, | :00:05. | :00:11. | |
please, whatever that decision is let's get to it quickly and make it | :00:12. | :00:21. | |
and start building. -- global place. This debate is very important to my | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
constituents. I thank the MP for Twickenham for speaking so | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
passionately on this subject, as she has done for many years, and today | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
has been no exception. Let me start by saying I need no persuasion that | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
we need another airport in the south-east, we need one soon and we | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
need to get on and make the decision. I am entirely unconvinced | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
by the hypothesis that written won't lose out if we don't build a new | :00:53. | :01:01. | |
runway soon. -- written. -- Britain. The question is, for me, where we | :01:02. | :01:08. | |
are going to build it and it is plainly a difficult political | :01:09. | :01:10. | |
question and one the government was right to seek a report on but there | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
is no requirement to slavishly followed the conclusions of that | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
report. We are elected politicians, we don't outsource things to | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
so-called experts, we consider the evidence and make decisions based on | :01:26. | :01:32. | |
that and the views of our constituents. There are three things | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
I want to pick up on the Davies report, the three breaks on | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
expansion at Heathrow will significantly undermine the case for | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
adding a third runway there. Firstly, the ban on night flights, | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
noise pollution from Heathrow already disturbs more people in west | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
London than any airport in Europe and to get away -- around this | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
problem Davies has suggested a partial ban on night flights. | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
Leaving aside the scepticism of local people but that will be | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
honoured in the breach, it really makes little sense to us to allow an | :02:13. | :02:20. | |
increase in airport capacity to allow flights from more destinations | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
but to ban night flights, when that would in fact reduce connections | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
from places like Hong Kong, Singapore and China as well as deter | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
some low-cost carriers. The second predicate on expansion at Heathrow | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
is the meeting of a quality targets. Davies said the targets must be met | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
before any aeroplanes are allowed to take off from the third runway. | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
Their pollution already kills an estimated 10,000 Londoners every | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
year so it is right that reducing air pollution is one of the caveats | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
for allowing additional flights from Heathrow but it is a caveat that | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
can't be met any time soon. It is certainly not a caveat that will be | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
met in the next few years, even on the basis that there is no expansion | :03:10. | :03:18. | |
at Heathrow. How can it possibly the Met if we add a third runway? I | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
can't understand how a third runway with more flights and more pollution | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
is going to reduce the pollution we currently see at Heathrow. Gatwick | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
has never breached any UK annual air quality limits. We have heard of | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
political decisions that would have led to bridges and roads to nowhere | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
in Alaska. We don't want a runway to nowhere at Heathrow because that | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
won't solve the urgent need for additional airport capacity. The | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
third predicate is that Parliament should legislate against a fourth | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
runway at Heathrow. I have to say, for my constituents the fact that | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
Davies says we have to legislate against this rather underscores the | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
risk that that is what would happen if we did not. Legislation really | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
provides no comfort to our constituents because all it would do | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
would mean that the matter would have to come before this House | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
before a runway was ever built. My constituents in Kingston and | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
Surbiton, already in fact quite badly affected by noise from | :04:29. | :04:35. | |
Heathrow, and we are not even under the flight path, and what this means | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
for me and my constituents in New Maldon is that one of the flight | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
paths goes directly over their houses and that is clear on the | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
plan. The effect of noise disruption has been regularly raised by | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
honourable and Right Honourable members representing constituencies | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
around Heathrow against the third runway. May I put on the runway that | :05:02. | :05:11. | |
the effects on my constituents were huge because of flights at Gatwick. | :05:12. | :05:22. | |
Thank you very much for that intervention, I am sure the | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
honourable member when she is up at Chiswick and will welcome the fact | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
that a third runway is not going to go ahead because I feel that the | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
legal challenges are so great that even if this approved it will not | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
proceed. I don't forget for one moment that I have a number of | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
constituents that work at Heathrow Airport but the fact is that if a | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
third runway is not going to be built at Heathrow it will not close | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
down, it will still be one of the busiest airports in the world and it | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
will still be a big provider of jobs to people from London and my | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
constituency. People agree that we need more airport capacity, almost | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
everybody agrees that we need to get on and make a decision. I don't Tim | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
Murtagh from the proposition that choosing an International Airport | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
hub is something that we need to get on with but the solution is not a | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
third runway at Heathrow. -- I don't demur. This debate comes the very | :06:26. | :06:33. | |
day we have been reminded so starkly of the importance of having a | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
growing and could -- successful UK economy. If we are to ensure that | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
our economic legacy to future generations isn't just billions and | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
billions of pounds of debt and make sure the future prosperity of our | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
country isn't just based in the south-east of England but embraces | :06:53. | :06:54. | |
all of the nations and regions, we have some very difficult but | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
necessary decisions to take. The government, as my honourable friend | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
for Twickenham reminded us, has made recommendations in the past about | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
Heathrow but also Gatwick. They are fully aware on the front bench of | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
the intense passions that this debate will incite, as so eloquently | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
put by my honourable friend from Richmond Park. They acted with great | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
foresight setting up an independent commission, giving them the funds | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
and resources and time necessary and access to every conceivable expert | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
to produce a fully worked through report and the result of that is | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
clear, it is unequivocal and it is unanimous, a recommendation in | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
favour of expansion at Heathrow. The economic case that they present is | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
overwhelming. They estimate that Heathrow expansion results in a two | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
thirds better solution than the one at Gatwick. According to analysis | :07:57. | :08:06. | |
there is a ?50 billion gap, other results say it could be as much as | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
?90 billion gap. Heathrow results in a far superior increase in | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
additional long haul routes, a 20% increase in long haul destinations. | :08:18. | :08:27. | |
Is the honourable member aware that that ?147 billion figure in the | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
airport commissions report is challenged by the commission's own | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
economic advisers and the compatible in a fit between Heathrow and | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
Gatwick is very small. I have also seen the evidence of the letters | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
from the commission on the 27th and 28th of September rebutting a number | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
of points including that. I believe -- we have a 20% increase in long | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
haul destinations. Of course it is important that we entertain in this | :09:03. | :09:15. | |
place world statesman but we need planes going out daily to those | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
countries represented by those leaders. We know we are winning the | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
global race when we have Chinese, Indian and Brazilian CEOs gracing | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
the streets of Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow and Newquay. | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
Domestic flights into Heathrow have been crowded out in the last 25 | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
years. As he writes in the report, our discussions with the | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
stakeholders in the nations and regions reveal clearly the | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
importance they attached to direct links to Heathrow. It gives access | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
to a substantial long haul network. I will give way. I want to remind my | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
honourable friend of what has already been said in this House at | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
the Davis commission themselves admit that the international long | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
haul flights go up by only seven destinations to 2030 and further | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
seven to 2050. They actually come down, domestic destinations, from | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
seven to four. I quote from the chair of the GLA, ten to 12 | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
additional long haul routes by 2040, an increase of up to 20%, and they | :10:32. | :10:42. | |
define how they set out their daily destinations, the services required | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
by CEOs going out to visit their clients and bringing them back to | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
the UK. This is not just about economic arguments, I accept that. A | :10:50. | :10:57. | |
third of the report details the environmental and local community | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
concerns. It was due to be a third of my speech but I have taken the | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
leave from the chair that that would probably not be welcome. There are a | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
few points, I would welcome the establishment of the International | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
noise authority, it will be a huge benefit across the country where we | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
suffer from aircraft noise, including areas that are rural with | :11:20. | :11:30. | |
Laura ambient noise. -- lower. On an equality are I described the | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
removals last campaign by the Member for Uxbridge, air quality in parts | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
of the capital is not what we would desire and it must be improved. I do | :11:39. | :11:46. | |
note that the Davis commission treated this seriously, I | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
recognise, it was the points around the M4 and the M25 that the most | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
troublesome and I understand there are practical solutions that can be | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
made in terms of improving air commission. I thank the Davis | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
commission to their convincing and thorough report and I look forward | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
to the government response. If we can shave a minute of each of the | :12:11. | :12:19. | |
front benches. I will try not to use my five minutes to give the front | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
bench is time to do what they need to do but I would like to make some | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
comments around competition and markets and this weird belief we | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
have that somehow Heathrow Airport Limited, a private limited company, | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
owned 100% by overseas shareholders, is still part of our National | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
stakeholder infrastructure. It may form part of that function but it is | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
not a state-owned enterprise. First a quick word on noise. Heathrow at | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
the moment is the noisiest airport in Europe. 68 times more people are | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
affected by noise around Heathrow, south-west London, Berkshire, than | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
are affected by Gatwick. Even if the Davis commission assumptions are | :13:06. | :13:16. | |
correct and we can look forward 60 years, 27 times more people are | :13:17. | :13:24. | |
affected by an expansion at Heathrow than an expansion at Gatwick. | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
Heathrow Airport Limited is a privately owned company and I thank | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
the Minister for his question about the infrastructure required directly | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
as a result of expansion, the government have said they will not | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
be spending taxpayers money on this and if they were it will probably be | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
?15 billion or ?20 billion with a subsidy to a private company from | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
every person in the UK, so I am glad that is not happening, but Heathrow | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
seem to think, hang on, the taxpayer should subsidise us. It is not | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
accept the ball and I don't think the public would accept that. If we | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
do decide on Heathrow, and I hope we don't because I don't think it is in | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
anyone's interest, but if we did what we would do is further interest | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
and existing market dominant player. In this side of the House and | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
probably most sides that is not the kind of monopolistic practice we | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
should be in trenching. Let's look at the economics of it. At the | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
moment it already costs ?26 per passenger to land at Heathrow. It is | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
not that competitive. At Gatwick it is when we look at the cost of the | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
new runway, either at Gatwick for Heath Road, we suddenly find that it | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
is about 30 bed -- ?30 per passenger when around the rest of Europe it is | :14:54. | :15:02. | |
around ?18 to ?20. Let's not assume that an extra runway will be | :15:03. | :15:04. | |
cost-effective or economically beneficial. When it comes to | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
competition I certainly know on this side of the House that we don't wish | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
to entrench semi-monopolies, but let's look at the evidence. When | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
Gatwick put on a flight to Moscow the price structure from 700 -- | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
several hundred pounds down to 350. You may argue that business people | :15:27. | :15:34. | |
are desperate for expansion at Heathrow. Utter nonsense. What CEOs | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
are interested in is being able to get on a flight and get where they | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
want to go. Wherever the prices are lowest and the connection quickest, | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
that is where they will choose. I just come back to this point about | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
projecting 60 years hence because we can't predict the weather tomorrow, | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
the idea that economically we can protect the consequences of a | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
decision on Heathrow 60 years hence is quite the Czar and I quote the | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
former director of the IFS, who rubbished the hotel methodology. -- | :16:08. | :16:20. | |
quite bizarre. To guess even which routes airports will choose over the | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
next 60 years is not possible. It seems the judgment we need to make | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
today is also about the type of model that future aviation will | :16:31. | :16:32. | |
undertake. We keep talking about this concert -- concept of a hub. | :16:33. | :16:42. | |
British airways, Heathrow Airport Limited and the ministers | :16:43. | :16:44. | |
surrounding this, I spoke to them and asked them what constitutes a | :16:45. | :16:53. | |
hub, show me a model. The model hasn't been forthcoming. Even if we | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
do require a hub, which we do have at them at with two runways, nobody | :17:01. | :17:07. | |
is arguing Heathrow should close. The two runway hub will continue | :17:08. | :17:09. | |
with more modern forms of transport. Is the issue that will not go away. | :17:10. | :17:26. | |
Ever since I got elected to this parliament, people want to know what | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
we think, what will happen and it is not the issue of Scottish | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
independence, it is the second runway at Heathrow or Gatwick. I | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
will begin by contractually team the honourable lady for two can for | :17:43. | :17:49. | |
securing this debate. -- congratulating. She is a credit to | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
her constituents. She focused on economic issues, on issues | :17:54. | :18:00. | |
surrounding sound and issues surrounding the environment and I | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
thought she spoke very well as she moved her case. I cannot mention all | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
speakers who have contributed but there are a few I would like to | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
focus on. It would be remiss of me not to begin with the two honourable | :18:14. | :18:26. | |
gentleman. It is the second Mayall hustings I have sat, having done so | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
previously in a debate on London taxis in Westminster Hall and I | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
expect that both tents and we'll be debating this issue for some time | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
over the coming months but they highlighted a number of concerns | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
with the report and it is obvious from the statements they made that | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
they are both equally passionate for London and I wish them both well as | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
they seek to deal with this in more detail. During the honourable | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
gentleman's remarks, the most amazing thing occurred, the | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
honourable gentleman for Dudley came out as an ally for the Scottish | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
National Party. He used the line, why is it all about London? That is | :19:13. | :19:20. | |
the point that we come from, that while we understand that London is | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
Scotland's process global financial hub, whether Scotland is part of the | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
UK or not, we must not lose sight of issues surrounding regional airports | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
which are returned to. -- which I will return to. The honourable lady | :19:37. | :19:45. | |
raised some serious concerns from her constituents and did so in an | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
excellent fashion, like the honourable gentleman from Saffron | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
Walden who I met on my first day in this house and he gave me a few tips | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
on how to deal with some of the members, he used the line in his | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
statement, he said Stansted will be engraved onto his heart. I will | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
avoid because it is indeed the obvious joke about Tories having | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
hearts but he gave a very thorough and historic analysis of the wider | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
airport expansion debate and the debate we have had this afternoon is | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
all be better for it. My honourable friend who has had to leave early | :20:27. | :20:34. | |
stands up for and praises crosscut airport which I think is becoming my | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
second home over the last six months, which I am assured the whole | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
chamber will wish to join the in congratulating being crowned UK | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
airport of the year and he rightly asks the government and I hope the | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
Minister will do this in his remarks in closing, he asked the government | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
to clear up any confusion as to whether or not this will be deemed | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
as an English only matter. The honourable gentleman for Chelmsford | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
who gave us new members the induction in this very room when we | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
were first elected gave an excellent speech and he illustrated the | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
frustration which is clear from all sides of the house which plagues | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
this whole issue. He did it in an authoritative manner, of course as a | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
former transport minister himself. The honourable gentleman for Arundel | :21:29. | :21:36. | |
and South Downs really against spoke with authority and demanded that we | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
treat this as a national issue and that that should be what guides us | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
as opposed to local concerns, but I have to say that local concerns must | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
be given consideration although I would agree it is an issue of | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
national importance. It was over this very issue that the current | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
Shadow Chancellor once protested in this chamber using the mace that | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
stands before us and while we may be the noble savages, I have no | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
ambition to do so this evening. We will hear Labour's remarks in a few | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
moments time but I want to give some comfort to the Shadow Chancellor who | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
unfortunately is not here this evening, but I found a quote from | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
one Chairman Mao who once said, to rebel is justified. The honourable | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
gentleman of the Treasury bench still has his copy of the book. The | :22:32. | :22:38. | |
honourable gentleman for Oxbridge, where to begin? He spoke with his | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
usual passion and authority in a good nature but rather surprisingly, | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
I am delighted he believes -- agrees with us that this is not only an | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
English matter and he has aligned himself with the interests of the | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
Scottish National Party as far as this debate is concerned and for | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
that we are grateful. My fellow transport committee member is | :23:05. | :23:15. | |
normally a member from the south of the border rather than the North but | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
he is a strong supporter of Blackpool Airport in his | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
constituency. He did so today. He again mentioned the importance of | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
securing regional connectivity and that is something I think the | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
government could do and something we will be pressing for through public | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
service obligations and I would be grateful if the Minister would | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
address that this evening, because that is not just a concern for us in | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
Scotland but in other parts of England such as the north-east as | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
well. The Scottish Government earlier this year in its programme | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
for government announced the setup of three innovation and investment | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
centres across Europe, one in Brussels, one in Dublin and one in | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
London. That gives Scottish businesses an opportunity to do | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
business on a world stage which we have not always been good at but | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
that gives us an opportunity to do that here in London. It is our | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
closest major financial centre and this decision is one we will analyse | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
forensically. At the room at we remain agnostic and we seek to get | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
the best possible deal for Scotland but give the station is there and | :24:32. | :24:40. | |
the government must make a decision. Can I congratulate the honourable | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
member for token for securing the debate and thank the back bench | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
business committee for allowing it to happen. All the members who have | :24:48. | :25:02. | |
spoken, I thank. I think it came out 12 against Heathrow antenna broadly | :25:03. | :25:13. | |
pro-Heathrow. One mentioned for the honourable member for Richmond Park | :25:14. | :25:20. | |
and the one for tooting who will be debating this issue a lot. I look | :25:21. | :25:29. | |
forward to what is said. I hope to hear from the Transport Secretary. | :25:30. | :25:37. | |
We would have appreciated a report back to day but it looks like we | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
will have to wait for that one. The aviation sector is the key pillar of | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
our economy but I hope the house will forgive me as I just say | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
something else, which is it is an industry that makes our world a | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
smaller place. It fosters direct face to face understanding between | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
people across the globe in no way no other industry or mode of travel | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
ever has, and it is for those reasons that aviation is a central | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
target for those who want to kill and terror rise, to undermine that | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
understanding and to spread fear amongst anyone going about their | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
daily lives. We were reminded about that in the Sharma was shaped | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
tragedy just a few weeks ago and it underlines why the decisions that | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
Parliament was wrestling with this morning are not only provide for our | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
country as a whole but particularly those working in aviation and it is | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
why we pay tribute today to all those who work in the civil aviation | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
sector, on the ground and in the air. As I said, aviation is an | :26:43. | :26:49. | |
industry vital to the economy. ?50 million in GDP, about 1 million jobs | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
related to aviation and about 8 million in tax revenue. We also know | :26:56. | :27:04. | |
that aviation accounts for around 6% of the UK's greenhouse gas emissions | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
and there are issues of noise and although the false wagon emissions | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
scandal originated in automotive innovation, people are demanding | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
transparency in air quality commissions also. That's why the | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
work is important, bringing together airlines, airports, aircraft | :27:29. | :27:39. | |
manufacturers and unions. The introduction and development of | :27:40. | :27:46. | |
sustainable few would make a major contribution to reducing emissions. | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
Aircraft technology, we have heard of the new, lighter aircraft | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
possibly taking new long haul flights, new initiatives in airspace | :27:55. | :28:01. | |
managing, airports also, even though they have seen passenger numbers | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
increased by more than 5%, their carbon footprint has fallen by | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
almost 3%. Continuing and aviation agenda is fundamentally important to | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
jobs and skills in the UK. Turning to the issue of airport capacity, | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
the ministers promised a response before Christmas and we await to see | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
what the minister has to say. Our job as the opposition is to | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
scrutinise that response and we have been clear about the four tests are | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
guests which we will measure it. -- against. Two of those are about the | :28:38. | :28:44. | |
environmental challenges put forward for an additional runway capacity | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
either at Heathrow or Gatwick. Howell for the UK's climate change | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
obligations can still be met and how local noise and environment impact | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
can be managed and mineralised. Davies said the expansion of | :28:58. | :29:05. | |
Heathrow had to be contingent on the latter being addressed. -- | :29:06. | :29:15. | |
minimalise. Davies himself emphasised the choices that | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
government make will make the difference to what can be achieved. | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
For example or noise, airports need to know whether the framework is to | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
concentrate noise geographically or whether it is about dispersing it | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
and what ever it decides, why cannot the government agreed in principle | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
to decommission's proposal for an independent aviation noise authority | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
with statutory consultation rights? And for the expansion of Gatwick or | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
Heathrow to help rather than hinder, the UK meeting our carbon or air | :29:47. | :29:54. | |
quality targets, that requires a big shift, greater numbers of people | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
travelling, that has to be transformed so my first question is | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
what will be the actions it will take to ensure its conclusions on | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
airport expansion are compatible with our environmental obligations? | :30:10. | :30:15. | |
Our other tests are looking at clear answers from the government on what | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
they decide on Davies and how they will meet the capacity challenge. | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
Capacity in the South East needs reviewing and that's why Labour | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
supported the establishment of the commission but there are very | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
different answers from Heathrow, Gatwick and others about the kind of | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
capacity needed and how them that informs the decision of if and where | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
a new runway. What are the government's conclusions about the | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
differing decisions that differing decisions will have on short-haul | :30:46. | :30:52. | |
capacity, long haul capacity, regional air connectivity, transfer | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
traffic and the growth of point-to-point and have traffic? | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
That brings me to Labour's fourth test that we asked the Minister to | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
address. This cannot be an issue simply about how the air travel | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
services serve well all badly the south-east. The issue of | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
connectivity to other parts of the UK is vital as is seen this as an | :31:15. | :31:21. | |
opportunity for rebalancing growth across the regions and while they | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
crashed in of a new one-way is a key decision for UK aviation, it is not | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
the only one and whatever the decision made, it will take eight, | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
nine, ten years to implement, longer probably if there are legal | :31:38. | :31:38. | |
challenges. Members Aviation | :31:39. | :31:46. | |
will not stand still during that time. This misses will still need | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
new routes to compete with existing and emerging markets, new aircraft | :31:54. | :32:01. | |
will offer new possibilities for the economic civics banned a point to | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
point travel, and if we are serious about rebalancing our economy we | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
must make sure those routes are not simply dependent on what happens in | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
the south-east. Birmingham, Manchester, East Midlands are | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
international gateways to the UK and deserve to be treated as such. Will | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
the Minister put the upgrading of the West Anglia lines in the next | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
rail control investment period to allow, for example, Stansted to | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
achieve its potential in the south-east? Will he confirm that | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
Manchester Airport will be linked directly to HS2 and having accepted | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
Labour's plan for a national infrastructure commission will he | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
endorsed the plan for it to examine the long-term road and rail needs of | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
airport and other transport gateways throughout the country, not simply | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
the south-east, and when can we expect the promised review of the | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
future of passenger duty in terms of its purpose and how options to | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
reform it can improve competitiveness at different | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
airports and their devolved environment? Let me congratulate my | :33:13. | :33:20. | |
honourable friend the member is for Twickenham and Richmond Park and | :33:21. | :33:22. | |
also the honourable member for Brentford and I is all worth, my | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
long-time cycling partner, and the backbench business committee for | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
securing this debate. We have heard some remarkable and passionate | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
speeches and I look forward to the mayoral hustings next year. In | :33:37. | :33:43. | |
contrast I think my speech will be unremarkable because at this point | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
in the process the government is engaged in a dispassionate, | :33:49. | :33:51. | |
clear-headed analysis of the Davis report. We set out to take a fresh, | :33:52. | :33:59. | |
independent and competence of look at current and future aviation | :34:00. | :34:12. | |
needs. Davies's work looks at how to improve our infrastructure including | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
in the regions. It is a subject of immense importance to the country | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
and to many of our constituents. I am grateful to everybody who has | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
contributed to an excellent debate. The UK aviation industry employs | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
around 230,000 people directly and many more indirectly, for example in | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
the supply chain. Tax revenues from the industry are ?8.7 billion a year | :34:35. | :34:43. | |
and are freight carries goods worth over ?100 billion a year, more than | :34:44. | :34:53. | |
40% of non-EU trade by value. That is -- what is often overlooked is | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
that we are incredibly well connected. We have -- the number of | :34:57. | :35:03. | |
passengers using non-London airports has increased by over a third since | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
the year 2000 and London remains one of the world? Best connected cities, | :35:09. | :35:20. | |
with weekly or more often -- Air Canada activities one of the major | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
reasons why three quarters of 4500 companies have offices in London. | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
The restraints we have seen today are in fact a symptom of Britain's | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
success, the aviation industry's success in attracting new business, | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
therefore maintaining UK and international connectivity is | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
important if we have to remain growing as an economy and we are | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
focusing on a wide range of issues, not only capacity, that supports the | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
aviation sector. Airspace is a critical part of our infrastructure | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
so it is vital we work to increase capacity, improve safety and | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
mitigate the impact on the environment. The CAA's future | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
airspace strategy is designed to do this and the government support for | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
this initiative. The government is offering support to airports for | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
improving service access. The Airports Commission worked for two | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
and a half year and consulted widely before coming to its conclusions. As | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
we are all aware it recommended that additional runway capacity is needed | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
in the south of England and the optimal solution was that this | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
should take the form of a new Northwest runway at Heathrow. It | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
also recommended a package of mitigation measures including a | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
night flight ban, noise levy and the community engagement board to name a | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
few. The fullness of mitigation measures is on page ten and 11 of | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
the report. The government has been reviewing the findings of the | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
report, though we have yet to make any decision. I now tend to address | :36:59. | :37:08. | |
the key points raised today why a number of members. -- by a number. A | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
number of colleagues were critical of the airport commission report. | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
The department has received a number of presentations critical of a | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
number of issues in the report, including air quality, noise, | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
service access, economic benefits, deliverability, financing and | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
capacity and connectivity. We have been taking into account the matters | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
raised as part of a wide -- wider programme of work considering the | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
recommendations. We content -- we continue to consider whether the | :37:44. | :37:46. | |
issues expressed have already been considered why the Airports | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
Commission or affect the overall ballad of the of the | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
recommendations. The issue of noise of course is very contentious and | :37:55. | :37:57. | |
the commission is taking into account the noise impacts for each | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
scheme, including potential mitigations. We also need to | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
recognise that aircraft are becoming less noisy and more fuel efficient, | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
particularly those who adopted Rolls-Royce engines. We understand | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
the concerns of local communities about noise and we have carefully | :38:15. | :38:21. | |
examined the evidence provided by the Airports Commission including | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
potential mitigation issues. The government takes the issue of air | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
quality very seriously. It is a complex issue and indeed DEFRA have | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
just consulted on their draft action plan. As we know of course from the | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
discussion we have had over Volkswagen, we have a number of | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
issues in connection with other transport modes which impact on air | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
quality and many of the robins around major airports are as much | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
due to traffic around the airports as aviation itself. We are carrying | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
out a detailed analysis of the Airports Commission report and any | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
decision regarding future airport capacity will take into account the | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
overall government plan to improve air quality and its commitment to | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
comply with European union air quality standards. The honourable | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
member for Ealing specifically raised the issue of CO2 emissions. | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
The government takes UK climate change commitments very seriously | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
and is committed to meeting them. The commission engaged with the | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
Committee on Climate Change when undertaking its extensive work on | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
greenhouse gas emissions, including the impact of expansion under two | :39:36. | :39:42. | |
different Wallasey networks. The government is examining the evidence | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
and any future decision about capacity will take into account the | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
UK climate change policy and our obligations. I am hope we can get | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
global agreement on a global marketplace mechanism for trading | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
carbon, which will be the ultimate goal to ensure that aviation plays | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
its part in reducing carbon emissions. In terms of the | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
mitigation measures package, the members for Twickenham and Brentford | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
raised these, the airport commission recommended that should the Heathrow | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
Northwest runway scheme be taken forward the package of measures to | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
be put in place to limit the impacts of expansion on communities | :40:25. | :40:26. | |
including the introduction of a noise envelope, a ban on night | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
flights between 11:30pm and 6am and a commitment that no fourth runway | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
will be taken forward at Heathrow. We will ensure that if the decision | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
is that there is a need for additional capacity and that there | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
should be a new runway whatever its location there should be a package | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
of measures to balance that in the interests of communities. I haven't | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
been able to touch on every point raised in the debate but many of the | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
issues raised today are the priorities and concerns of the | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
government. Could I thank all of those who contributed to this | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
excellent debate. We live in an ever-changing world and we have to | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
get this decision right, recognising its impact. We have heard a wide | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
range of views representing a wide range of people and we don't have | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
want to hide the challenge of airport expansion. The Davies | :41:27. | :41:28. | |
Commission has earned its right to close scrutiny and discussion. May I | :41:29. | :41:41. | |
thank every member of the House who has contributed to this debate, it | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
is a matter of national interest, I thank the Scottish colleagues in | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
particular. I thank the Secretary of State for taking time from his busy | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
schedule to listen to our debate. Yes, the aviation industry in the UK | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
is very important to our economy. I would point out, though, what the | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
Member for Saffron Walden has said, were the Davies Commission ruins its | :42:06. | :42:14. | |
own logic. -- were. I thank the Minister for saying airport | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
connectivity is important and all of the members who talked about | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
regional connectivity. I greatly appreciate what the Minister said | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
about mitigation measures for the Southeast but what I would ask him, | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
like many other members of this House, is if they can be done for a | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
third runway please can you do it for the two one -- runways extant | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
because it is not tolerable and a quasi night ban is not enough. If we | :42:45. | :42:53. | |
all going to attack climate change and the an international climate | :42:54. | :43:01. | |
change industry leader we have to be at the higher levels. I absolutely | :43:02. | :43:09. | |
agree this is a long-term programme, whatever option the government | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
chooses, and in the meantime we have to think about our capacity right | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
now. I thank all of the honourable members and members of the House who | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
have contributed, I would remind the government of the promise made in | :43:24. | :43:30. | |
2009, no ifs, no buts, no third runway. Thank you. The question is | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
that this House has considered the final report of the Airports | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
Commission. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, | :43:40. | :43:48. | |
"no". The ayes... I have never heard such enthusiasm for the end of a | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
debate after such a lively debate. As many as are of the opinion, say | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
"aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it, the ayes have it. | :44:00. | :44:03. |