Browse content similar to 14/12/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Order. Questions to be Secretary of State for Communities and Local | :00:17. | :00:23. | |
Government. Question number one, Mr Speaker. Hear, hear! | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
Thank you Mr Speaker. The northern powerhouse is running across the | :00:29. | :00:39. | |
departments. The northern powerhouse investment fund, ?400 billion, the | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
devolution deals that are being agreed right across the north of | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
England and of course the doubling of the enterprise lands in the | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
northern powerhouse that were announced at the spending review by | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
my right, Noble friend. Earlier this year the government invested over | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
?113 million in high-performance computing in my constituency. A | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
joint venture between the science and technology for facilities | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
Council and IBM, bringing high wage job. Does my right honourable friend | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
agree that investment in technology and science is key to be growth of | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
the northern powerhouse? I command my honourable friend's important | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
significant work in this area. Is a passionate advocate for this. This | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
is one more example of the investment does government is | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
putting in in order to build the northern powerhouse to read powers | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
our economy. -- rebalance our economy. Information spending is | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
being it protected and we are investing in the economic growth of | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
the future and this is a great example of that. He deserves | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
commendation for the work he has done in delivering it. When is the | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
government going to stop patronizing the North? We are a powerhouse. You | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
must be investment in it infrastructure. We are the people | :01:57. | :01:58. | |
who still make things in the country. We make the wealth of this | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
country. Many of people in this part of the world live parasitically on | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
our efforts! Stop patronizing! Start investing! I welcome the honourable | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
member's enthusiasm for the northern powerhouse as a project. This | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
government is recognising the potential of the North to drive our | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
economy. The difference that the North can make if it is invested in | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
and crucially if people in the North are given real control over their | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
own future. That is what we are doing and what the devolution agenda | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
is about and what the investment I have spoken about are about. We will | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
deliver it and big a big difference to his constituents and mine. Thank | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
you Mr Speaker. On this question, can he tell me what sport he is | :02:43. | :02:44. | |
giving to small businesses within the northern powerhouse? Should they | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
benefit from all procurements that are coming from that? The northern | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
powerhouse investment fund, that ?400 million, will be targeted | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
specifically at small and medium enterprises. We've got growth hubs | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
across the North which are driving out investment. You will see our big | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
industries succeed and thrive the economy, but small and medium | :03:08. | :03:09. | |
enterprises are important as well. We want to invest and give local | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
people the support they need. Thank him for his answer. He will be aware | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
that Scottish government procure compared to the UK government's | :03:22. | :03:35. | |
four. -- 26%. City deals can be drivers for growth. I welcome those | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
that have already been agreed and we will continue to have talks | :03:39. | :03:40. | |
including with some of the great cities and city regions in Scotland | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
about where we can go further and what more we can do. I hope that we | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
can and do course in Livermore because we can already see the | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
difference those deals are making -- Livermore. On behalf of my | :03:51. | :04:00. | |
constituency we think those who are helping now, those areas in the | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
north, so badly reflected -- affected by the recent flooding. The | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
LNS recently reported that the North is falling further behind as a | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
result of poor investment -- ONS. It is getting worse. The average | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
business now produces ?42,000 a year undervalue while in the Northeast | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
the averages on ?18,000. Any place of more cuts will he now includes | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
afflicted Dominic specific -- will he include specific is apples later | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
this week? The right honourable member raises the important point | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
that our E economy has for too long been unbalanced. The northern | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
powerhouse as a project is to invest an additional weakening Mark -- | :04:46. | :04:55. | |
answer weekend, the potential. We will see that that investment is | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
going in, but more importantly going hand-in-hand with local control, | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
giving it to the people who know best how to grow the economies of | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
the North because they live in them and they are part the. -- they are | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
part of them. Stephan Phillips. Where is the fellow? Mr Andy | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
McDonald. Thank you Mr Speaker. I will answer questions three and six | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
together. Authorities have continued to provide an excellent service | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
whilst making sensible savings. The number of incidents is 42% lower | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
than ten years ago and fire deaths and injuries are at an all-time low. | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
The existing grant distribution formula disproportionately penalizes | :05:38. | :05:45. | |
authorities such as Cleveland, regardless of industrial risk and | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
other performance. Can he explain what assessment will be made to | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
identify less efficient authorities who can make surveys and more | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
importantly what capacity these authorities have to make further | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
savings? I'm grateful for his question. Can I use it as an | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
opportunity to pay tribute to the magnificent work of firefighters, | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
who with the other emergency services, can counsel staff | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
engineers and Armed Forces and the whole community have worked | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
tirelessly to protect and help people during the flooding in the | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
north of England. On the particular question that the honourable | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
gentleman asked, fire authorities have said had spending reductions of | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
less than local authorities over the last five years of copy at a copy as | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
given in the figures of how they performed very well and managed | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
those cuts. The National Audit Office has said that the picture is | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
one of financial health. What I would say in relation to his | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
particular case is that the spending power in Cleveland for example, for | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
the fire authority, is ?48 ahead of the population compared to ?37 that | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
is the national average. That is reflected in the formula. I'm sure | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
the Minister will know he has ornamented over the years there have | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
been cuts to the fire service. And he has mentioned the point that fire | :07:07. | :07:14. | |
service... Protect the work they are doing in places like Cumberland. So | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
that should be working on decent wages. What guarantee can he make | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
that local fire and rescue services will not be negatively impacted if | :07:21. | :07:28. | |
taken over by local PC sees? As he knows there is a consultation out | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
across the country on whether we should remove some of the barriers | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
to a better local collaboration between all of the blue light | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
services. That is to be initiated locally. It is to make it possible | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
if they want to. And for the purpose of providing a better service if | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
those changes would help. Can the Secretary of State confirm to the | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
House that greater collaboration between the fire services and the | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
police services, necessary to reduce costs, will not indent this tension | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
between firefighters and police going forward? I can confirm that. | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
They are two students think services -- two distinct services. I think as | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
he would hit New Orleans, the opportunity to work together should | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
be taken when ever that can make a difference to people on the ground | :08:17. | :08:24. | |
-- I think as he would notice. And argument particular to local | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
authorities. With the encouraged Wilshire counsel, conservative | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
control, but I doubt we don't encourage the fire service who have | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
been negotiating with them instead to seek to find common errors of | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
cooperation from the Council? I say, that is an answer for the services | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
locally. The consultation proposes requiring that there is discussions | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
taking place, but what they conclude is up to them. | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
Hear, hear! Thank you Mr Speaker. I would like | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
to pay tribute to my response to be fire and rescue services to the | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
floods in Cumbria and other northern areas. The service are rescuing | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
people who have been at Walter from flooding High streets and homes and | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
rescuing livestock, solidifying damage to rural communities. Yet all | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
those services who are responding have had cuts over the last five | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
years. We've lost nearly 7500 fighters, that's one in eight. And | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
over 12% in the local fire rescue services. Be fire services is a key | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
junction now. Is not safe effective or efficient to keep cutting | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
resources. Does the Secretary of State agree that any further cuts | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
will further the damage the fire and rescue services ability to meet the | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
risk in local major incidents such as the loop recent floods? And will | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
he commit to add the resources so be fire and rescue services can | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
continue to contribute to national resilience on the scale and at the | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
speed that the public aspect? Hear, hear! | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
I draw the honourable ladies attention to be report that was | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
published quite recently. It says the picture of today's is one of | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
financial health and says that fire authorities have not changed | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
emergency response standards as a result of budget cuts. The evidence | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
is when all but one fire authority is increased its reserves during the | :10:28. | :10:35. | |
period from 2010-2015, by 67% in real terms, this tells me that the | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
fire services are coping well with the reductions that they have been | :10:40. | :10:49. | |
made. The Staffordshire fire authority I should say decided to | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
build a brand-new fire station but reduced the appliances to a half of | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
what they presently are. Would he work with Matthew Ellis, the police | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
and crime commissioner and Staffordshire, who has good positive | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
plans to combine the police and fire service for the betterment of the | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
whole County? Hear, hear! That is the purpose of the | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
consultation that we have embarked on to remove the barriers that have | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
prevented that kind of collaboration. I'm interested to see | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
what he has to say about the proposals and Staffordshire. Thank | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
you Mr Speaker. Minister Brendan Lewis. With permissions I will | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
answer questions four, 13, and 18 together. We have delivered 270,000 | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
affordable homes since 2010. Specifically, the 2011-15 affordable | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
homes around delivered 192,000, it exceeding expectations -23,000 homes | :11:45. | :11:52. | |
-- 193,000 homes. Is not surprising he is growing about this am a but I | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
can assure him that ?250,000 is not considered affordable. Will be | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
definition of affordability be changed based on the income in that | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
market rate? I will say she is referring to be massive Orr maximum | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
price. -- the maximum price. Want to take off that 20% discount we are | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
going to be doing, it actually helps buying home affordable for more | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
people again. Hear, hear! In Worcester, up courting to Council | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
figures 216 new affordable homes in the last financial year, a record of | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
any year since 1997. It was delivered by the conservative | :12:36. | :12:37. | |
administration the year after a labour and live them -- Liberal | :12:38. | :12:49. | |
Democrats delivered fewer. A good example of a good well-worn local | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
authority delivering housing for its local constituents. We are | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
determined to stand by those authorities and work with them. That | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
is why in the spending review I am delighted that ?1 billion was given | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
to deliver 4000 affordable homes across the country -- ?8 billion. | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
Given the property crisis in London, exceeded half ?1 million, first time | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
buyers will need to learn that ?70,000 is needed to buy their first | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
home. Does the Minister consider this affordable? And is not what is | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
he going to do to put homeownership in the reach of the many and not | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
just the few at the top? And that the honourable gentleman is now | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
joining our cause and wanted to make sure we build more homes that are | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
affordable for people to buy. 67% six 2010 is a good start. We want to | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
go further. That is why we want to deliver more, giving people a wider | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
opportunity to get onto the housing market. Also homes we have helped to | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
buy records in just a 5% deposit. Some members opposite believe that | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
homes can be made more affordable, for example in London, by returning | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
to be bad old days of rent control. Can I ask the ministers and many | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
others in this house that the government has no intention of | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
giving any future mayor powers to be able to reintroduce rent control in | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
London? Hear, hear! As my honourable friend will know we | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
are keen to see more and more devolution and localism of power, | :14:20. | :14:21. | |
but I am happy to say to him that this government will not allow it to | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
fall into a trap after the party opposite encouraged me to do. The | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
reality is that rent control drives the pie down and actually ends up | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
looking rents up. So we are against and will not be doing that under | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
this government. Hear, hear! Thank you Mr Speaker. The Minister | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
has talked about extra housing investment. I wouldn't want him or | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
the chancellor who has set the same thing to mislead the House. After | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
the Chancellor's Autumn Statement, the annual housing investment for | :14:50. | :14:56. | |
the government will be ?1.7 million. -- one 7p. At the money inherited in | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
2010 from labour it was the 1p. Not an increase, but a cuts. Not a | :15:03. | :15:12. | |
doubling, but almost a have. Maybe this is why his government has built | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
30,000 fewer affordable homes to buy Varosha home ownership than Labour | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
did in the last five years Hear, hear! | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
I'm somewhat surprised the honourable gentleman raised the | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
question. The lowest level of housing in this country since the | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
1920s, as well be Chancellor has not done under this government is now | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
seeing the biggest building programme in about 30 years. He's | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
wrong on the big picture as well. Under our national affordable | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
housing programme the number of homes built each year was bigger | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
than his under the last government. The hard truth is that for so many | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
people, the dreams of buying their own homes are totally unaffordable | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
and out of reach. Now he plans to fiddle the figures again by changing | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
the definition of affordable to include so-called starter homes that | :16:02. | :16:10. | |
can be sold at up to ?450,000. So with the at least agree with Labour | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
and the building societies Association that the discount on | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
these starter homes should be permanent. Not a windfall cash at | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
the end of five years, but there for the next generation of first time | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
buyers as well. Hear, hear! Afraid the honourable gentleman, I | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
have a big disagreement. He seems to want to stop Property owners having | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
the right to deal with their property in the way that any other | :16:39. | :16:40. | |
property owner would. We want to support people to buy their own home | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
and that is why we want to keep building more for people at that | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
discount for first time buyers and we are proud that under this, the | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
conservative led Coalition, we saw an increase in affordable homes | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
unlike the loss of 420,000 we saw in the years of Labour. Question number | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
five, Mr Speaker. The Autumn Statement did come from | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
?1 billion for over 400,000 affordable homes including the | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
shared ownership homes and ?2.3 billion towards delivering 200,000 | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
starter homes. And held to by steam loss on the 1st of December, means | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
it has been extended through 2021. That means just a 40% equity is | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
being provided by the government for people in London and that will be | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
launched in 2016. I was pleased to recently attend the opening of | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
prospect housing. New development of 11 Apartments meant for shared | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
ownership and I will cover the notions introduced to expand this | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
being. Can ask the Minister what steps he is taking to encourage | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
local authority to build more shared ownership housing and ensure these | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
developments utilised Brownfield sites was back very happy. We will | :17:56. | :18:03. | |
relax on the move. Local authority restrictions to shared ownership to | :18:04. | :18:05. | |
make it easier for people to find the right home for their families. | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
Brownfield also has limited housing and we are committed to ensure that | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
those sites have planned commission housing by 2020. Number seven. | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
Since 2010 we have delivered to under 70,000 affordable homes, | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
including nearly 200,000 homes for rent. Delivering more homes to every | :18:28. | :18:38. | |
parent who have and investment. Someone 7p to deliver affordable | :18:39. | :18:47. | |
renting homes. Ministers attention to the question I actually asked | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
which is about social renting housing not affordable. Will he | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
confirm that in last moment the only social renting housing built would | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
have been funded before the 2010 General election. And there is no | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
funding at all in this Parliament for social rented housing. Together | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
with the Right to Buy for housing association tenants on the sell-outs | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
of no value properties, to become a nations of those policies mean fewer | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
social renting homes available for people and longer waits on the | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
waiting list for people who want one? Actually there was a 70% | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
increase in social housing waiting list under the last Labour | :19:26. | :19:27. | |
administration. It has actually fallen thanks to flick civilities | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
we've created and effect we more social housing built in the last | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
Parliament than the lads 13 years of labour before that. I encourage | :19:37. | :19:44. | |
local authorities to go forward building more. Thank you Mr Speaker. | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
The building of genuinely affordable homes for social rent and this | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
country has plummeted. No matter how much the Minister tries to dress up | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
the government's doings, his own figures are clear and speak for | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
themselves. In 2010 there were more than 38,000 homes built for social | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
rent, but by 2014 - 15, the figure was a truly dismal line priced at | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
500, with the housing and planning build making it virtually impossible | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
to build homes for social rent. And eight disgraceful sneaking of | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
proposals for local authority tennis. What does this government | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
have against people who rely on social housing to make ends meet was | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
ONS is the Minister going to address the huge shortfall in social | :20:32. | :20:39. | |
housing? I would I withdraw the honourable lady's to a few moments | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
ago when I outlined the last five years of this party's government and | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
that it oversaw more being built in the entire 13 years of labour. | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
Actually, affordable housing drop by 24,000 homes. Still over ?2 billion | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
ahead be required ability for local authorities to go and build more. We | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
have been very clear that we will help everybody who wants to aspire | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
to on their own home through the extension of Right to Buy and | :21:05. | :21:06. | |
delivering starter homes across the country. Viguera the honourable | :21:07. | :21:14. | |
member would be aware of the services of this department are | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
devolved in Scotland. Therefore there are consequences of spending | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
decisions that are made as affecting this department and he's got his | :21:22. | :21:23. | |
government as a result of the spending review. Will see a 14% | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
increase and the capital budget. A statement the Chancellor confirmed | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
extension of Right to Buy for housing associations affected for | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
privatizing them. We are aware that this has decimated social housing | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
stock across the UK, something that the Scottish government has | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
recognised in Scotland. The government, so-called one-for-one | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
replacement, under the new Right to Buy hasn't been funded by the | :21:54. | :21:55. | |
government funding. With the Minister explained what effect these | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
proposals have an housing in Scotland? The honourable member is | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
quite right to point out the at least one-to-one replacement that is | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
the intention of this policy which is welcome by those of us on this | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
side of the House. The spending review announcements will have a | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
violent consequences impact on the government of Scotland's capital | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
budget. That amounts to ?1.9 billion added to the what they already have | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
to ensure the Scottish Government is able to deliver on the things they | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
want to do for Scotland just as we want to deliver on our objectives | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
and manifesto priorities in England and Wales. Hear, hear! | :22:31. | :22:32. | |
Question number ten. Thank you Mr Speaker. There are | :22:33. | :22:40. | |
strict test to protect people and property from flooding with all | :22:41. | :22:42. | |
local councils are expected to follow. These including ensuring new | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
development does not increase flood risk elsewhere. Grateful to be | :22:46. | :22:53. | |
minister for that response. It is my experience that the environment | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
agency often does object planning applications, even in flood areas. | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
Especially where other areas could be caused to flow. Will be secretary | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
of state actually look at the policies and the practice of the | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
environment agency in this respect? I certainly will do what my | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
honourable friend recommends. I recognised his constituency | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
experience and indeed his expertise as Vice Chairman of the all party | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
group on this matter. It is the case that national planning policy in the | :23:27. | :23:35. | |
MPPF says that any new application in an area of flooding risk must | :23:36. | :23:38. | |
demonstrate that the area will be safe for its lifetime and will not | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
increase flood risk elsewhere and will possibly reduce it overall. | :23:43. | :23:45. | |
That test had to be passed for the development to be committed. Thank | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
you Mr Speaker. At the time to recognise the fantastic work that | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
firefighters do invocations of flood. Statutory duty for fire and | :23:55. | :24:01. | |
rescue services to respond to flooding? Hear, hear! | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
I'm grateful. He offers me to pay tribute to the fantastic work that | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
is being done in the north of England, but has been done already | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
years in times of emergency like this right across the country. I | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
will remind the honourable gentleman that any discussions we will have to | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
I will consider the point he has but forward. In my constituency we have | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
a bridge that has been partially washed away and the roles aside it | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
have been caved in because of flooding. Will my honourable friend | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
give us assurances that everything can be done as quickly as possible | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
to make sure this report is put back together as if it's an ad vital | :24:41. | :24:53. | |
place. I appreciate him giving that to his community in response to | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
conditions that have been faced. We are determined to ensure that things | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
are right. We are working closely with the authorities across the | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
areas. The funds that have been made available so far will allow the | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
assessment of what is required for restoration to be made, but then I | :25:12. | :25:14. | |
will be followed with the repairs themselves. Is the secretary of | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
state think it is right that the government are helping new people by | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
their own home through the Help to Buy scheme, but those very same | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
people will not be eligible for the flood insurance and the flood rate | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
that this government is introducing and rent April? The negotiation with | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
the insurance companies has been very clear that we want to make sure | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
that everyone in the country can benefit from the insurance that | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
gives them the peace of mind when they buy a new property. | :25:46. | :25:56. | |
Over 1700 communities are preparing neighbourhood plans to shake of | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
elements and their area. Diesel form part of the development plan and be | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
used to develop application. The reform will speed up and simplify | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
the process and allow people to leave my kitties to better engage in | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
local planning. The Minister will be aware that the planning Inspector | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
has deferred a decision on housing development plan. The ad has actual | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
shirt counsel to come back after a fuel query. What measures will be in | :26:26. | :26:33. | |
place to make sure that we do not have aggressive applications against | :26:34. | :26:35. | |
the best interest of the savagery of the town? Having a 5 euros land | :26:36. | :26:43. | |
supply and plays put local planning authorities and a place to resist | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
unwanted development copy furthermore, national planning... | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
I'm sure her local authority is well aware of that, and will make | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
decisions. Last Thursday as business questions, I raised the case of | :27:03. | :27:11. | |
something in my constituency where a small property that is now privately | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
rented has been converted into a house of multiple occupation, as | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
part of the Asylum dispersal programme. Does the Minister | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
understand the dismay of the neighbours of this property, that | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
the owners are able to circumvent landing and license in regulations | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
because there were only be five people house that property? I cannot | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
comment on an individual case without knowing all of the facts, | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
but I would refer the honourable subsuming to look at the measures | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
that we are breaking through in the housing and planning bill, | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
particularly dealing with landlords. The interpretations of neighbourhood | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
plans has been causing difficulties in the beautiful village of Hook | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
Norton. With the Minister meet with me to discuss how the can ensure | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
that the neighbourhood plan is adhered to? And the great of them is | :28:14. | :28:22. | |
that a Hook Norton is, it is a home to a fantastic brewery. I do hear | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
what he is saying and I will meet with her or I am sure my horrible | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
friend, the housing and planning Minister well. -- honourable. The | :28:32. | :28:39. | |
communities in New York need a family housing built, on the York | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
Central side. We hear that high-value flats will be placed on | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
that side, will the Minister listened to local communities to | :28:51. | :28:57. | |
ensure that their voices prioritise? I think the government has | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
demonstrated that we want local people to have a strong voice to | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
neighbourhood planning and in relation to the issue, the Honorable | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
Lady mentioned, I am sure that is on the record and her local planning | :29:10. | :29:12. | |
authorities should be listening to the concerns and the comments from | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
local residents. In the council areas where there is no adopted | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
local plan, local communities are continually let down by the planning | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
process. Would he give consideration in these circumstances to allow the | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
objectors the right to appeal? I think my Honorable friend makes a | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
very good point. By 2017, we will make sure that all areas have a | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
local planning place, and the housing and planning bill sets out | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
in some detail how we will achieve that. Question number 12. Thank you, | :29:46. | :29:53. | |
the government allow with the Scottish Government is working with | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
the Highland Council to identify opportunities for Highland city | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
region deal. Those discussions are ongoing, they are positive and | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
constructive, I hope they will lead to the outcome that I'm sure the | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
honourable member hopes for. They are right to raise the issue. They | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
are a great driver for growth and help us realise economic potential. | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
That is what we want to see. Highland Council has submitted a | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
detailed plan for the deal investment with the support of the | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
Scottish Government. Will be minister committed to advancing | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
discussions and indicate a timescale for finalizing the process to allow | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
the deal to get under way? Discussions are already under way. | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
Officials met with local representatives on the 2nd of | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
December, we will continue to work through those plans to ensure that | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
they are robust and will deliver what is needed and that they meet | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
the requirement that we look to place on such deals and that they | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
have the support they need in order to continue. We wish to see them | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
progress positively. That is the assurance I can give at this time, | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
these things need to be done properly and thoroughly as they are | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
taking forward. Number 14 Mr Speaker. I will be presented in | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
local government financial settlement for 2016 and one the 17th | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
of the house. I will show how we will lay out a sustainable | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
settlement and pave the way for future reforms, providing growth and | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
efficiency, such as local government has requested. Research by the dose | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
of lounging foundation has so that there are some areas that have great | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
need and have seen a large cuts in government funding. This is broken a | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
historic link. Over the last five years, councils have had severe cuts | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
to their funding while other areas have seen an increase. Forecasts | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
suggest that they will be at least a lost by 2020. What's with the | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
government do to make sure funding for local authorities to reflect the | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
needs of the people who live there? What I would say is that she would | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
wait to see what the settlement has in store. But what she should know, | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
from the last two years is that the spending power for rural, and ?2240 | :32:13. | :32:20. | |
per dwelling is 70% above the national average at average. It is | :32:21. | :32:32. | |
higher than it was in 2010. Fistulas in my area, pay an average of ?80 | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
more and Council tax, yet receive ?130 length and government funding. | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
This impacts local services. Does the Secretary of State agree it is | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
time to look for fairer funding for all taxpayers? What I would say is | :32:48. | :32:55. | |
that Iraq demise because of the delivering services in areas with a | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
very smart area is high for obvious reasons. The role services delivery | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
Grant was used to reflect those cross. It has been increased since | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
it has been introduced. When we came to make the financial settlement, I | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
will put that in mind as he make the assessment of what is needed? The | :33:19. | :33:27. | |
report found that there was a limited understanding of authorities | :33:28. | :33:34. | |
five sustainability. Can be Secretary and advises house of his | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
understanding of load taxpayer authorities. And the in | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
sustainability with the percentage across the board cut. Does he | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
understand that the removal of the grant completely and the retention | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
of all business tax without distribution will drive these | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
authorities right under the ground? As a former council leader, I would | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
have thought that the honourable lady with the inmate position to | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
welcome the settlement for local government. Not only provided over | :34:06. | :34:13. | |
the course of the four years a protection for the local government. | :34:14. | :34:16. | |
We did what the local government requested which was to make money | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
available for the care of the elderly duties also care preset. I | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
would have thought that her experience would have author of two | :34:26. | :34:35. | |
that. Does this reflect the pressures on top-tier authorities | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
for social care costs and restate the opportunities for greater | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
integration of health and adult social care spending in this area | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
has supported by others? He is absolutely right. I had a | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
communication from the local Government Association that said | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
that they estimated the gap is unaddressed would be to .9 billion | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
in the spending review settlement, the Chancellor allocated three and a | :35:03. | :35:09. | |
half billion to reflect the needs of helping our elderly population. That | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
was a significant result for local government. Has become too big | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
settlement for individual authorities, we will make sure that | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
that is in the hands of local people. At least 340 unaccompanied | :35:21. | :35:30. | |
child asylum seeker disappeared in this country between January and | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
September. That is twice as many as the calendar year before. This leads | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
them at terrifying risk of abuse, sexual exploitation and | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
radicalisation. Councils they funding cuts means that they don't | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
have the resources to protect these children. Why is the government | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
going ahead in these circumstances with a further cut to the | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
unaccompanied child asylum seeker grant? What I would say is that | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
these are important strategy responsibilities of local | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
authorities. It is vital that they do start seven. To the settlement, | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
the Chancellor has made available funds to local government to make | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
sure that the cast supplemented by the end of the period, the financial | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
spending review period is the same as the beginning. That is a positive | :36:17. | :36:23. | |
result for local government. Number 15 Mr Speaker. Thank you Mr Speaker, | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
the number of local authorities that have resettled Syrian of refugees | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
and changes as more arrived. I don't think it is practical to give a | :36:35. | :36:43. | |
number on the authorities participating, around 50 local | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
authorities confirmed places before Christmas. Does the ministers share | :36:47. | :36:53. | |
my concerns about the rise of a phobia in the country filled by | :36:54. | :37:04. | |
right wing of? How should they deal with and how should they support | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
refugees? I do share his concern about Islam a phobia, as far as the | :37:11. | :37:18. | |
refugees who have arrived here, I have gotten nothing but a warm | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
welcome from all parts of the UK. I'm certain that will continue. | :37:22. | :37:28. | |
Local authorities seem to be confused about their role in this, | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
is there anything the Minister can do can add clarity and hurry things | :37:33. | :37:41. | |
along? Dealings with local authorities is on particular cases, | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
we do not have any power to insist that refugees go to certain places | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
but we are working with, County councils and district councils, and | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
a metropolitan borough areas. It is a very flexible system, all I can | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
say is it it has worked very well. The number of places that have been | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
offered is the equivalent to the number of refugees that are | :38:04. | :38:12. | |
arriving. Planning appeals are determined in accordance with | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
development plan, unless said otherwise. Once brought in, and | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
neighbourhood plan is part of a development plan. As the Minister | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
won no, a few weeks ago, villages were going to the polls to vote on | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
the referendum on their neighbourhood plan. At the very same | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
time, a Secretary of State was allowing a housing, a planning | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
appeal in their area. How can the Minister and Sun Microsystems after | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
all of the world that they put it, what assurance can they put in that | :38:44. | :38:54. | |
work is worthwhile? I'm happy he took interest in local matters as | :38:55. | :39:01. | |
does the. He he will be happy that I cannot comment on individual cases. | :39:02. | :39:09. | |
The letter provided with them sent out the difference between them. And | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
why it has been done, the Secretary of State will always give | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
appropriate weight to neighbourhood plan. It is a important part of our | :39:17. | :39:27. | |
vetting process. We welcome them. Thank you Mr Speaker, we will be | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
presenting our proposals for a sustainable and fair 2016 and 17 | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
local government finance settlement to the house. We propose to consider | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
our approach from being dependent, to benefiting from promoting local | :39:42. | :39:49. | |
growth. Spending on adult social care has fallen by ?65 per person in | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
the most deprived communities. Prepared -- compared to other | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
communities. And one of the councils I represent, the shortfall in | :40:01. | :40:07. | |
funding is ?20 million. ?2 million can be raised by increasing council | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
tax by 2%. Isn't it true that allowing an ask her rise in council | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
tax devolves the blame without fixing the probable? The local | :40:17. | :40:26. | |
government settlement that will come very shortly, we will announce | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
changes to local government finances to rebound support including those | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
authorities with adult social care responsibilities. By taking into | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
account the main resources available to councils including counsel back | :40:39. | :40:46. | |
tax and business rates. We are speaking with Southeast balance a | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
look at proposals, it is welcome that so many parts of Scotland | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
aren't keen to be part of the process of delivering city deals. | :40:58. | :41:03. | |
They will agree in such a way that will drive economic growth. Despite | :41:04. | :41:14. | |
the obvious wealth,... 21% of children and a proposed for the | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
region are living in poverty. The economy is not being held by | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
government positions. Can be minister tell us what he thinks is | :41:27. | :41:34. | |
going to help? The time and never makes an important point about the | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
diverse nature of the area of which he talked. We want to ensure that we | :41:38. | :41:46. | |
can deliver the growth so that it can realise its potential. We will | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
continue to have talks, which I think have been productive and | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
constructive. We will continue to work constructively to the liver | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
that city deal if it can be delivered in the right way. These | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
things must be decided properly. That is the process that is under | :42:02. | :42:10. | |
way. The housing and planning bill does contain measures to tackle and | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
go further with landlords than any before. We want to roll out | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
landlords who rent out substandard accommodation and do all we can to | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
make sure that tenants have a good and safe environment. A tougher | :42:23. | :42:39. | |
fitter proper person test. ... Over the past five years, despite | :42:40. | :42:42. | |
privately raised in homes, rents have sorted, and are a fit higher | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
than they were in 2010. Why have is the government not taken any steps | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
with the soaring rents? And she looks at the rents over the last | :42:55. | :43:03. | |
five years, it has been a lower. We are going a lot further than ever | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
before in terms of cracking down on landlords. We all want to see cross | :43:10. | :43:16. | |
party put out of business. An important part is making sure that | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
landlord understand their obligations and that tenants | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
understand what is available. What is the action they are taking to | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
understand that they understand their responsibilities? He makes a | :43:31. | :43:39. | |
good point. Apart from what we aren't doing to publicise, we have | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
published a guide for tennis to look at so that they can understand the | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
rights they have. We should be clear, and tenant should be happy | :43:51. | :44:00. | |
with it? . Order! Thank you Mr Speaker. Before Christmas, I wish | :44:01. | :44:08. | |
everybody a happy Christmas. Since the last questions, the spending | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
review has announced the biggest affordable housing programmes in the | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
1970s. Delivering them many affordable homes, we have agreed | :44:17. | :44:25. | |
devolution deals with Liverpool and the West Midlands and completed the | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
committee states of the housing and planning bill. We will continue to | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
develop new devolution deals with communities in order to give off | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
more power and resources across the country. As my right honourable | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
friend might know, I am running a campaign to save the hedgehog. Can I | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
ask my right honourable friend, and he will ask his department, to | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
provide guidance to local authorities on how to make the | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
gardens and the new feels more hedgehog friendly and ensure that we | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
can actually have a hedgehog superhighway. What I would say, I | :45:03. | :45:11. | |
know this is a prickly issue for him, let me get straight to point. I | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
want the issuing guidance on the protection of hedgehogs, but I will | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
draw members attention to the excellent publications of the | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
British hedgehog preservation Society, and their guide to looking | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
hedgehog. I would recommend for any Honorable members who want to curl | :45:33. | :45:40. | |
up this Christmas and read it. The words hedgehog, superhighway did not | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
trip off the Secretary of State Tonka. Maybe he is preserving them | :45:45. | :45:53. | |
for another occasion. Why is it that those councils who have the highest | :45:54. | :45:56. | |
number of vulnerable children are the same councils that have seen the | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
highest level of budget cuts under his government? I would say to the | :46:02. | :46:09. | |
Honorable Lady, that if she looks at the figures, it is quite apparent, | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
that the local authorities with the highest spending power are the local | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
authorities that she refers to. Councils will see a rise in their | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
resource in cash terms over these parliament from 40 billion to 40.5 | :46:27. | :46:34. | |
billion. The Honorable Lady will see the outcome of the local government | :46:35. | :46:43. | |
finance settlement. Will do all join me in welcoming the plan of for the | :46:44. | :46:53. | |
tearing down of a building. It's being replaced by hundreds of new | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
homes of many different types including some 260 badly needed | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
assisted living apartments. He has given a great example of a local | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
authority making good use of Brownfield land to provide housing | :47:09. | :47:17. | |
that their constituency needs. And a hasty attempt to reverse the office | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
of housing statistics, ministers were reported that there was a cell | :47:23. | :47:32. | |
of... Two private investors. Housing Association has made sure that they | :47:33. | :47:39. | |
will oppose such a move. It is an unhelpful distraction. Can a | :47:40. | :47:46. | |
minister and store the house that a... | :47:47. | :47:57. | |
Lasher, councils local development plan was adopted with new green belt | :47:58. | :48:05. | |
boundaries, will they and sure confidence and the plan to make sure | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
that the policy for his determination, or any application to | :48:11. | :48:13. | |
the point from the plant by giving itself planning permission to build | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
on the green belt that was so recently confirmed? I think my | :48:18. | :48:24. | |
Honorable friend outlines an important part. He is right, that a | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
local authorities who has its plan in place, I am sure that this is | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
local authority were to take an opportunity to go outside a local | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
plant he would be the first to request myself or the Secretary of | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
State to consider that application. Some authorities have had to close | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
the local where affairs assistance schemes altogether. Food banks are | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
in need of. Will does government preside over 5 million people, will | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
the Secretary of State commit to protect future funding and reinstate | :49:00. | :49:07. | |
the law? It is important to local authorities take their | :49:08. | :49:09. | |
responsibilities seriously, when we have the local government finance | :49:10. | :49:15. | |
settlement, I'm sure there will be happy to see and recognise. The | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
people of Lincoln shared know what is best for the people of | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
Lincolnshire. Can my honourable friend outlined the deal. And tell | :49:25. | :49:32. | |
us how the bid is going. My honourable friend is well-placed to | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
represent the views of people of link share. He does it effectively. | :49:37. | :49:43. | |
Areas are different and local people know best what they need to drive | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
economic improvement and improve the lives that they represent. | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
Discussions are going well. They include discussions on skills, | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
transport, housing, and water management. What discussions has the | :49:58. | :50:08. | |
Secretary of State has with the business sector for still | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
communities and how they can use imaginative and creative approaches | :50:13. | :50:14. | |
to support the steel industry through this difficult time? I have | :50:15. | :50:21. | |
had discussions with the business secretary and his colleagues. It is | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
important that we and power of those communities to act in support of the | :50:27. | :50:33. | |
businesses and the employees, through the extension of the | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
enterprise, he will see that practical support has been given to | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
make sure that the prosperity of those regions continues to grow | :50:43. | :50:50. | |
despite these challenges. I am delighted to see the extra supply of | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
affordable housing, as a result of the housing and planning bill. A key | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
to that is supplied. Will he agree with me that the London land | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
commission is keen to do this. And we keep under review all the plans | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
that they need to make sure of the land comes in. Like? I am honoured | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
to be joint chair of the London land commission, I can give them | :51:16. | :51:17. | |
assurance that we will make sure that the land does come forward and | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
plays an important part to deliver housing to London. When we get to | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
the 12 month point from where it started, we will do a review to make | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
sure it has the power it needs to deliver. On Saturday, I was out with | :51:32. | :51:39. | |
Caroline Pridgen who is a London Mayor candidate. Kill me makes so | :51:40. | :51:48. | |
that PCS cells continue to play the role that they play in keeping our | :51:49. | :52:02. | |
streets safe. I'm glad he remembers the name of his candidate, I think | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
it is spent most of us in that's how. I'm very happy to confirm the | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
importance of all of our police, and keeping our streets safe. Simon | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
Stevens has described social care funding as unresolved business. With | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
the Secretary of State agree with him that it is time to have a | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
rethink on how we fund the social care in the future? She has a deep | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
and long-standing interest in this and she should know that the funding | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
adult social care is something that should be done jointly between local | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
councils and the NHS. The health secretary and I are working closely | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
to make sure that the funds at the Chancellor has made available is put | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
to good use so that our elderly people are properly cared for rather | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
they are in charge of councils or in our hospital. Does the government | :52:55. | :53:01. | |
have any plans for initiatives other than that business, to help people | :53:02. | :53:12. | |
in small suburban shopping centres especially in my constituency? I | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
think the Honorable Clement for that question, this government is doing a | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
number of things to help the type of traitors, that the Honorable Tillman | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
refers to, we have a principled planning changes to allow them to | :53:25. | :53:33. | |
respond more flexibly. We are tackling overzealous parking | :53:34. | :53:36. | |
practices, and I am working closely with retail worker migrations of the | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
future of the form to develop strategies that will enable our high | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
streets and communities to beat the future needs of the consumer. I | :53:46. | :53:51. | |
would like to commend Staffordshire fire and rescue service for there | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
will work in fire prevention which has conjured to falling call-outs. | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
Does he agree with me that further integration between police, fire and | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
other services with help to more effectively identify vulnerable | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
people which would lead to better outcomes for the public and | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
efficiency savings? I agree, closer collaboration between our blue light | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
services offers better services to make efficiencies. I would encourage | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
to the consultation that we have for her and her colleagues to make their | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
representation so that we can do that without the current barriers. | :54:33. | :54:39. | |
On the last consideration of the housing bill, the Conservatives | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
passed an amendment to bring to an end, secure tendencies and social | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
housing, that was done without consultation or any impact | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
assessment. Can the Secretary of State tell me where he won councils | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
senates that this was in a conservative manifesto? Actually, I | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
would say, that that was outlined in the summer budget, they are not | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
affected by this. The provisions of the housing and planning bill made | :55:07. | :55:09. | |
on the 7th of December, prevent councils from offering new tenants | :55:10. | :55:16. | |
lifetime tenants in the future. Some areas such as the Isle of Wight will | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
have a much more difficult task, to increase their income by increasing | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
the business rate base. Blow my honourable friend meet the Isle of | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
Wight Council to discuss this matter? Delighted to meet the Isle | :55:30. | :55:38. | |
of Wight to speak. And taking 100% of business rates to local | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
government, it is important that we agree that places who don't have | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
good business rates are not going to lose out? Many of my concerns were | :55:47. | :55:54. | |
dismayed when I went back, after hearing last week that my honourable | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
friend suggested that you are going to limit competencies, what are you | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
going to say to those members of Mike is interesting that are | :56:03. | :56:05. | |
dismayed that this government has pulled this on them and what they | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
considered to be their rights as citizens? I would refer to her to | :56:10. | :56:16. | |
counter that with gave a few minutes ago. They are not affected by this. | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
It is about new tenants. It is the right thing to do. With the previous | :56:21. | :56:29. | |
member who was our cabinet secretary, I'm sure many taxpayers | :56:30. | :56:31. | |
would wonder if that is a good expenditure. South Gloucestershire, | :56:32. | :56:40. | |
work very well as a functional unit does my my honourable friend... | :56:41. | :56:50. | |
Should be regarded as a betrayal. I can assure my right honourable | :56:51. | :56:56. | |
friend I have no intention of free introducing the front door back door | :56:57. | :57:09. | |
or. After a replacement for Right to Buy was funded, the UK government | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
what would the consequences for Scotland beat? As I said earlier, | :57:15. | :57:21. | |
despite his government is saying a increase in its capital budget as a | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
result of a announcement at the spending review. Individual policies | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
are rotten through and delivered, the British Government will meet its | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
obligations, in that regard. And will continue to do so. | :57:37. | :57:44. | |
Urgent questions. I wish to ask the Minister responded to make a | :57:45. | :57:57. | |
statement on the sports PLC and its compliance with the national minimum | :57:58. | :58:04. | |
wage legislation. Thank you very much, I assure the right honourable | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
departments concerned that working people are paid the full amount that | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
the law requires for every hour that they work. And welcomed his urgent | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
questions. We take the minimum low-wage laws very seriously which | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
is why we have increased the budget from a to .1 million to 13 million | :58:21. | :58:28. | |
and 2015. What I am not able to comment on the individual players, I | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
can reassure the house that her majesties revenue and customs | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
followed up with the put in place that they receive. I would encourage | :58:38. | :58:43. | |
any employee or worker was concerned that these laws are not being | :58:44. | :58:50. | |
complied with to contact either the people to the hotline. They also | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
undertake targeted enforcement activity in the most high-risk | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
sectors of the economy. As the Prime Minister announced in September, the | :59:01. | :59:03. | |
government is taking steps to crack down on employers that are not | :59:04. | :59:10. | |
paying workers minimum wage. We have increased the... And from April | :59:11. | :59:20. | |
2016, the government will double the penalty you to 200% of the employers | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
comply with the law. Furthermore, a new team of compliance officers will | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
be established to investigate the most serious cases of employers | :59:31. | :59:33. | |
applying the relevant minimum wage. The team will have the power to use | :59:34. | :59:41. | |
all available sanctions including criminal investigation. The one name | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
employers who did not pay their workers what they are entitled to. | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
At the government, our message to employers is straightforward. We | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
will work to cut regulation and taxes. We expect employers to pay | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
working people a legal minimum. The national wage and the national | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
living wage for workers aged 25 and over. I will ensure the house that | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
we will not hesitate to crack down hard on both employers large and | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
small who break the contract by failing to pay the wage. | :00:17. | :00:23. | |
I think the Minister for his apply and I am proud that the last Labour | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
government in the face of the opposition opposite, introduced the | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
national minimum wage in the first place when people in our country | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
were earning as little as ?1 an hour. I am also proud that the | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
overwhelming majority of reduce businesses, notwithstanding any | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
legal acquirement, seek to treat their workers with dignity and | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
respect. We know enough about the practices at sports direct PLC, | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
which has a branch in mind constituency, to conclude that, Nick | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
is a bad advert for British business -- this company is a bad advert for | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
British business and one of culture of fear in the workplace which we | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
would not want to see repeated elsewhere. As the Institute of | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
directors has said it is a star of British business. I appreciate what | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
the Mr said about not being able to response in specific instances, but | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
can I ask... HMRC enforces national minimum wage and a complaint has | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
been made by the union of which I am a member against sports direct, | :01:25. | :01:37. | |
accusing them of being in... Of course it cannot be confirmed but | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
many of them are refusing to come forward for fear of repercussions | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
that will follow. Why can HMRC not go-ahead and carry out an | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
investigation in this case? It surely will render other evidence | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
without workers being required to put their necks on the line. | :01:53. | :02:00. | |
Secondly, can ask a generic listing? And issue has come up here where | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
employees are required to go through body searches to check for potential | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
theft. That is not time which they spent going through what he | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
searches, for which they are paid. The law is unclear in this area. Can | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
you give industry and indication whether antigovernment's view time | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
spent going through the body searches would count as working time | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
for the purposes of this legislation? Secondly, we have a | :02:26. | :02:33. | |
situation where employees face having 15 minutes of working time | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
redacted if they clock in just one minute late. -- deductive. In that | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
situation the law is not entirely clear again. Does the government not | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
believe that if an employer was to engage in those kinds of practices | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
it would not be at least in keeping with the spirit of the legislation? | :02:52. | :02:59. | |
Can I also just finally ask: Of course the enforcement of national | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
minimum wage legislation is not carried out by his department, it is | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
carried out by HMRC. How can we expect HMRC to do the work we | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
require them if the government is pushing through this 18% real terms | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
cut in HMRC's funding over the course of the spending review | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
period? Finally come a Mr Speaker, I think no doubt the reaction of the | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
employee concerned in this case will be to say we comply with the law. | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
But surely what they need to understand is actually the British | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
public expect a lot more from them. We often don't do things that we are | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
allowed to do by the law because we don't think that is the right way in | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
treating our fellow citizens. Surely that should apply to the company in | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
this place. Hear, hear! Mr Speaker, the right honourable | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
gentleman asked a series of very important and good questions. The | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
first point I'd like to make is if any employee of any company has any | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
fear of repercussions I can reassure them that the hotline is genuinely | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
confidential and I'm sure he would the willing to endorse the fact that | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
it is an absolutely resolutely independent organisation. So there | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
is no fear that they should have from calling out of hours to that | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
hotline and reporting a practice. I did say in my brief response that | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
HMRC enforcement is entitled to conduct targeted enforcement | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
activity in sectors of concern. So it is entirely open to HMRC to | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
actively proactively, investigate in sectors where they feel that | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
breaches may be an evidence. So in that sense, they don't necessarily | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
need to wait for a specific complaint to be able to investigate | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
breaches. He asked about this question and I did read the article | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
that revealed some of the allegations being made about sports | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
direct. He mentioned the question of the search and the time that that | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
takes and whether it is working time are not. He will know that this is | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
an intensely vexed legal questions. As a former employment law | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
practitioner, he will know how much time is this taking up of his former | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
leagues. I cannot give an absolute pronouncement, but what I can say is | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
that anything that counts as work, as part of somebody's employment | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
contract, must be compensated at least at the level of minimum wages. | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
So the question is whether that search counts as work as part of | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
their employment contract. That is a position that can be explored | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
legally. He mentioned the second thing that was made about employees | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
being docked 15 minutes for being one minutes late. While it is | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
legally permissible for time to be docked for late arrival, it is | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
important that every honourable member understands that the minimum | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
wage legislation will apply to the 14 minutes as well as the rest of | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
time that people are working. So therefore, they cannot be not | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
compensated for those 40 minutes if that would bring their overall wage | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
rate down below the national minimum wage -- 14 minutes. I hope that goes | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
to reassure him. He makes a point about the cut in funding for HMRC, | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
up 18% over the spending review period. I will have to take his word | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
because I don't have the global figures to hand, but I did point out | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
to him the very significant and dedicated increase in funding for | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
the enforcement team, the minimum wage enforcement team, which has | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
gone up by more than 50% since 2010. And it is going up by 3 million | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
pounds and this year alone. So I can reassure them whatever else is going | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
on in HMRC, this is a priority which we are investing in and will be | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
beefing up the activity of its. He is absolutely right to make the | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
general point that obeying the law is the minimum that we expect. We | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
expect employers to behave response to believe and to be good citizens | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
and we would hope they would not be sabbaths. Mac satisfied just with | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
obeying the law, but would want to go a great deal from it -- not be | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
satisfied just with obeying the law. I know there is even greater than | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
that of the others. I'm glad the Minister graciously welcomed the | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
urgent question, but unfortunately the Treasury he wrote to me this | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
morning to say the matter was not urgent and shouldn't be aired. I've | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
included upon examination that it was and should. And we look forward | :07:33. | :07:40. | |
very much I think to these changes. Mr Peter was standing, but the right | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
honourable gentleman has thought better of it. Thank you Mr Speaker. | :07:44. | :07:51. | |
My constituents have approached me on several occasions with concerns | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
about sports direct since the election. It appears that they | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
sometimes can have a somewhat aggressive use and attitude towards | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
flexible working, which is something that can suit some but doesn't | :08:10. | :08:11. | |
always suit other people. I wondered if my right honourable friend has | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
considered some thought to a general anti-avoidance rule when it comes to | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
these employment laws. Such as, we are considering and the tax sphere. | :08:24. | :08:31. | |
Mr Speaker, you know it would be a career limiting move for me to the | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
part in any way from the script laid down to my colleagues at the | :08:35. | :08:36. | |
Treasury. An hour plead that I welcome the | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
question and was glad to have an opportunity to answer it. Cannot | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
think my honourable friend for his suggestion. I am not going to | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
pretend that we have given thought to that. But he is not treated such | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
thoughts and I will be happy to have a discussion with him about how it | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
might work. We will come to Mr Skinner, who is because to join, but | :08:57. | :09:03. | |
for now... Thank you Mr Speaker. These allegations against sports | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
direct are concerning and we Aco because for eight Union for a HMRC | :09:08. | :09:17. | |
investigation. We stand in unity because these can do nothing to | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
engage employees and make them feel positive about the place in which | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
they work. Allegations of such a serious nature must be taken very | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
seriously by the UK government. And the government must do much more to | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
support the living wage employers. The Scottish Government has | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
encouraged over 400 living wage employers in Scotland. We have the | :09:38. | :09:39. | |
second-highest proportion of employees played the living wage -- | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
paid the living wage. We on these benches want to know the government | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
will commit wholeheartedly to support of HMRC investigation into | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
the business practices. Can I ask the Secretary of State what lessons | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
are going to be learned from this case? Especially when the UK | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
government is gearing up to implement the new minimum wage | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
premium which is not a living wage. If it can't enforce the current | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
minimum wage -- living wage, how will it enforce increases? I welcome | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
the contribution from the honourable lady representing the Scottish | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
national party. Of course it is absolutely the job of the | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
enforcement team in HMRC to follow up any concerns that they have, both | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
in relation to specific complaint and about particular sectors where | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
they feel that abusive minimum wage legislation. And indeed other | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
employment legislation is rife. She will ensure that I cannot comment on | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
a particular case, but if I may add would like to add that in general I | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
suspect, and I don't often welcome an investigation by the Guardian | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
newspaper, but in this case I think it is vitally important that media | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
organizations do investigate these things because government is never | :10:55. | :10:56. | |
going to be able to proactively investigate every single employer in | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
the country. If they can uncover things then I can promise you that | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
the government will be sure to review their findings and enforce | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
the laws were necessary. Thank you Mr Speaker. Can I echo the comment | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
to the Minister regarding the hotline. I have called the hotline | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
with one of my constituents who came to my surgery who have been under | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
the minimum wage, -- have been paid under the minimum wage and I find it | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
extremely professional. Cannot question the Minister about upcoming | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
change to the minimum wage with introduction to the living wage copy | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
I read this survey of a thousand employees, strongly welcome the | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
living wage and said it would boost in morale and productivity of their | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
employees copy four out of ten said they had not communicated with their | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
staff regarding upcoming attention arises in pay. I think eight out of | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
ten still haven't updated their payroll and created new procedures | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
to implement it. Could the Minister comment on that so legitimate | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
businesses are ready and don't get into similar situations? The | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
honourable gentleman conducted a adjournment debate on the subject. I | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
didn't realise he had just done so. Is to speak of copy may | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
may I thank the honourable member and that said or how good the | :12:28. | :12:34. | |
hotline is a. There is a substantial government communication campaign | :12:35. | :12:36. | |
that is going to be starting in the new year. We have felt it is in the | :12:37. | :12:43. | |
months leading up that medication will be most effective in making | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
sure employees and employers know that it is coming in and know what | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
is required and begin to work out how to do this in their systems. The | :12:52. | :12:59. | |
sports direct an occurs even though the national minimum wage has become | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
a kind of national treasure. Everyone supports it now. But like | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
all great social reforms it had to be fought for all-night opposition | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
in this house. Before reform and become part of the political | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
consensus have to be for four and the battle to sustain and minimum | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
wage must be a continuous one and one that requires more than just | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
warm words for ministers. The TUC estimate, at least 250,000 workers, | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
are not being paid the minimum wage. What is the Minister's estimate? Or | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
has the government even made one? Last Parliament it was revealed that | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
just nine firms have been charged for noncompliance with the minimum | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
wage. Cannae update the House on how many legal proceedings are currently | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
under way against firms for noncompliance -- can he update? | :13:50. | :13:51. | |
Denney tell us how many workers have received the money that they are | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
will hold after a notice of under payment has been issued by HMRC, | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
because up until now the government has failed to provide that data. | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
Will now order an urgent investigation to sports direct, | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
concerning the alleged abuses which have led the directors to label it a | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
scar on British business? He says he is acting, but where are the | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
results? How will he get results with the close of so many HMRC | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
offices? Mr Speaker, is easy to talk the talk am OK, but it means nothing | :14:20. | :14:27. | |
to millions of low-paid workers whose labour employees feel they can | :14:28. | :14:29. | |
turn on and off like a tap unless ministers walked the walk on the | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
minimum wage. When will we see some real action to enforce this? Hear, | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
hear! I am happy to acknowledge that the | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
national minimum wage was one of the great achievements of the government | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
led by Tony Blair. I note that there are more supportive of that | :14:48. | :14:49. | |
government's achievement on this side of the House as there are on | :14:50. | :14:58. | |
his. I also look forward to receiving the same acknowledgment | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
from members opposite when, in next April, we introduced the national | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
living wage which is significantly higher than any increase in the | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
national minimum wage that he and his colleagues proposed during the | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
last election campaign. He asked very good and proper questions about | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
enforcement. He glided over the fact that the budget for enforcement has | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
gone up by more than the 2% since his party was in government has more | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
than 50%. We have increased the level of penalties. We have | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
increased the powers and we have stepped up the programme of naming | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
and shaming companies, large and small. We have in 2014-15, 705 | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
employers receive penalties totalling over 934 thousand -- 900 | :15:46. | :15:53. | |
?34,000. We have set up a team to focus on tackling the most serious | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
breaches and consider whether directors of employers who breach | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
persistently in the legislation should be disqualified. In 2014-15, | :16:00. | :16:10. | |
we identified with 12 9 million of which 26,018 workers we conducted | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
735 successful investigations and charged 705 penalties, | :16:15. | :16:26. | |
worth ?934,000 in total. If he wants to suggest any further activity we | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
can take I am happy to hear it, but fortunately we are doing a lot more | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
for the government he was part of to defend one of the only achievements | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
they are still willing to talk about -- then the government he was a part | :16:41. | :16:42. | |
of. Hear, hear! IQ. There are reports that some | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
large retail businesses have already increased their hourly salary for | :16:51. | :16:52. | |
employers above the minimum wage. Could the Minister that housing is | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
in the standing of this? I have heard such reports that the Volokh | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
and not all the talk -- off the top of my tongue, speak that it is | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
extremely welcome news. Is the point made by an honourable gentleman | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
opposite that we expect more than just the obedience and faith of the | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
law. We ask that social response ability and employers to see the | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
benefits to them in terms of improved morale and retention that | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
come from paying people better wages. I don't think the Minister | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
should expect any social responsibility from the man that | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
controls sports direct. In my constituency. At the warehouse, | :17:34. | :17:40. | |
Abshire broke him a -- at sire broke. That man has not made ?6 | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
million because he is a considerate employer. He is a monster of a man. | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
That does not even reply to him these letters. I have sent him many. | :17:52. | :18:04. | |
-- MPs latest copy he has got ?6 billion because he is the type of | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
man who will not take notice of HMRC unless this government really means | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
business. This man might actually, would think very masterfully on | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
millionaires roll along with his house. -- pals. This will be a test | :18:18. | :18:28. | |
of the Minister's metal. Get working. Mr Speaker, I never had the | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
pleasure of being encouraged that by the honourable gentleman before, but | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
I promise to follow up on it. I want to be clear. I don't care how famous | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
an employer is. I don't care how well connected they are. I don't | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
care, friendly, how much money they have made. They need to obey the law | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
and if they do not then we will enforce the law. We will find them | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
and disqualified directors if necessary. Hear, hear! | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
Thank you Mr Speaker. As well as strong enforcement for the | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
government is should be possible for those who are employed by bad | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
businesses to vote with their feet and moved to better employers. So | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
what is being done to help create more and better jobs for those | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
employed by sports direct? And communicate the availability of | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
those jobs to them. I thank my honourable friend for bringing us | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
back to the important constant theme of this government which is an | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
economy that is creating new jobs at an unprecedented rate. Most of those | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
jobs now are full-time. And most of them are paying more, not just the | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
minimum wage, but then the national living wage which will be coming in | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
in April. Ultimately it is through a dynamic economy that will create | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
opportunity for anyone who does not feel that they are getting a square | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
deal from their current employer. Thank you Mr Speaker. When sports | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
direct announced they would be building their factory at sire | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
broke, able in North Derbyshire have been delighted. It employs nearly | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
3000 people, it is said that it should have a terrible reputation. | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
What would he take to communicate with that company and trying to | :20:14. | :20:15. | |
enter in the future the success of the organisation does not come at | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
the expense of the constituents of my honourable friend? Mr Speaker, I | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
am delighted that the honourable gentleman has pointed out how | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
important they are as an employer in his constituency. It is important | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
that we acknowledge that sports direct employs a great many people. | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
I am sure a great many people are very happy to work there. I | :20:36. | :20:42. | |
reinforced the point that no company director and no company owner is | :20:43. | :20:44. | |
going to want the House of Commons to be discussing any times that we | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
are discussing, the kind of priest was alleged in this newspaper | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
article. -- the kind of breach. I am certain that when faced with the | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
kind of enforcement action that I have set out that any employer, | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
including those in his own constituency, will want to sort | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
themselves out. Mr Speaker, would message of business tier does my | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
honourable friend have for all those people who are self-employed and | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
earning far less than the minimum wage? -- Christmas cheer. But are | :21:16. | :21:17. | |
faced with having to submit a quarter of their returns to HMRC | :21:18. | :21:25. | |
instead of annual ones? I am full of admiration for anyone who is | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
self-employed. It brings many rewards, but money is not always one | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
of them. And I am absolutely clear that the government must do | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
everything it possibly can to reduce the burden of regulation on those | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
who are self-employed. Does the Minister recognise what is so | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
disturbing about the newspaper report? Is the fear amongst many | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
working people there, in some instances apparently, women are not | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
willing to stay away from work, even if their child is sick for the day, | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
simply because they may lose their job. Is it not totally unacceptable | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
to have such fear and exultation in a company like this? It reminds one, | :22:06. | :22:13. | |
does it not, of the early years of the last century when workers were | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
treated in such a contemptible way. Finally, why was the advice given to | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
the Speaker if this was not an urgent question? If the Minister is | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
so keen on coming to the House and welcoming the Guardian | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
investigation, why did he try and stop the question being asked in the | :22:32. | :22:33. | |
first place -- why didn't he? Hear, hear! | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
It is for you always to judge whether a question is urgent, Mr | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
Speaker. I knowledged that this question is important which is why | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
am so delighted to answer it. On the broader point of the honourable | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
member has made, Bob is government beliefs and deregulation, believes | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
and reducing the burden, we have made clear that there are certain | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
laws that are absolute -- while this government,. They must be adhered | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
to. Minimum-wage legislation is one along with health and safety | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
legislation and a whole slew of other protections and we want to | :23:09. | :23:15. | |
protect those robustly. Thank you Mr Speaker. According to the ONS, a | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
quarter of a million people are not paid the minimum wage. According to | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
the Minister, HMRC have found that 6000 of them. What with the Minister | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
do in order to bridge the gap? -- 26,000. Can I suggest that to not | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
pay the minimum wage is a criminal offence. Why are they not been | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
prosecutions taken out against these directors who are not paying the | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
minimum wage and the department that is responsible for taking out | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
prosecutions in the attorney generals office has been cut for the | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
last three years. And there has not been a single prosecution during | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
that time. Mr Speaker, the honourable Lady always comes to this | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
house knowing the complete answer to every question. But it might help or | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
sometimes issue would actually listen to the list of the measures | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
that we have been introducing which both significantly further than any | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
enforcement activity that the government of which she was a | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
brought forward to defend their minimum wage. When that set of | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
enforcement measures has worked as well as it is doing currently, I see | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
no reason to take any instruction however helpfully phrased from the | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
honourable Lady. This is an extremely important matter but we | :24:34. | :24:35. | |
have other important business to follow, so amplifier brief questions | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
and answers -- I am looking for. This is a disturbing case and the | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
Guardian. With the Minister agree that one good piece of news is | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
whatever else happens, in April of next year, sports direct will have | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
to pay these people 11% more than they are getting now? Yes, and that | :24:51. | :24:59. | |
has happened because the majority of the conservative government that has | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
allowed the economy sufficiently well, that we can expect to do that | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
and still prosper. Hear, hear! The Minister has pointed out that | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
HMRC conducts risk space enforcement whether it's a higher risk of work | :25:14. | :25:15. | |
is not getting the legal minimum wage. That the secretary and which | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
voice direct operate already comes to a high risk sector? Isil, Jaime | :25:20. | :25:28. | |
Bracht of initiatives have HMRC lost -- if so, how many initiatives have | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
been launched? The sectors that are targeted for this type of approach | :25:35. | :25:41. | |
are either low-paid, there are a large number of employers who are | :25:42. | :25:43. | |
close to the boundary of minimum-wage, or those where there | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
have been significant breaches in the past and therefore there is a | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
good reason to expect there might be such breaches in the future. I can | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
argue the specific answer to how many investigations, and I will be | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
happy to write to him and place a copy in the library. On the 14th of | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
October two -- on the 14th of October at, a minister up to me | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
however he could not confirm which companies are under investigation or | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
on the approach of investigations. What he said about being started | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
with the owners and managers and directors of these companies, would | :26:21. | :26:22. | |
he be started with my home care which were previously run by the new | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
Tory Baroness, MacGregor Smith,? I don't think it is a job of the | :26:27. | :26:39. | |
Minister of the crime to lay individual companies and cases that | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
have not been found definitively to preach the law. I have been as clear | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
as I possibly could be about any employer large or small who does so. | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
I hope that he can apply that to any particular case. Everyone knows in | :26:53. | :27:00. | |
our area are you cannot get a job anywhere else in the sports direct | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
if you are an English native speaker despite a 3000 people working there. | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
When a baby is born, in the toilet there. Why is it that there were 80 | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
and a pleasant visit over two years to sports direct, and is the | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
possibly the case that employees are too scared and are not allowed time | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
off to go to the Doctor? And therefore, there is a myth dioxin of | :27:28. | :27:34. | |
NHS resources. Made also be the proper possibility that housing | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
nearby, people are too scared to speak that they are provided with | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
the house to live in, and the rent to it and the transport they have to | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
play to get to work, there needs to be an investigation. -- pay. Not | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
just for sports direct but the agencies underneath them who they | :27:55. | :28:01. | |
employ. If the ombudsman or any Honorable member has any allegations | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
and evidence of bad practice and relation to when the ways of the | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
placed or any other legislation, that they would like to bring to my | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
attention, I would welcome a. I would like to add this, the right | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
honourable gentleman, mentioned that a trade union had been involved and | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
bring to his attention, concerns of this particular employer. If Xavier, | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
and despite what we said about the hotline being confidential, if they | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
fear that those employees that they don't trust those governments one | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
lines, if they would like to submit their evidence to the Union, on the | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
other hand, I am sure all honourable members will understand that they | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
need to be willing to engage with officers to evidence. Government has | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
to act on a basis of evidence, however well researched to the | :28:52. | :28:58. | |
garden article, that is not enough. Isn't it time that the government | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
looked at introducing a criminal offence for exploitation, which they | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
have refused to do in the modern slavery bill in the last Parliament? | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
I think we have enough criminal event moves, -- offences. That is | :29:13. | :29:21. | |
the increase in the budget by 50%, the new powers we are giving, that | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
is what it will achieve. My understanding is that the trade | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
unions have made representations on behalf of staff, who fork very good | :29:32. | :29:40. | |
reason what to remain anonymous. Should the HMRC continue to ignore | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
representations on behalf of legitimate trade unions, or should | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
they just act now and searched the offices of sports direct with blue I | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
think I had been clear, if there are any individual complaint that will | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
need to be assessed for validity, it does not need to be possible for | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
HMRC to follow it up. I have also been clear that HMRC has undertaken | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
targeted enforcement activity, which does not wait for a complaint in the | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
sectors of concern. They will be listening to this debate. The | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
Minister said that ultimately, it is a growing dynamic up economy that | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
should give people confidence to find good job. Good employment | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
practice and legislation always gives people confidence copy a | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
number of resident Mike of the strength, use tips and service | :30:31. | :30:38. | |
charges to pop up wages. Kilometre of the Minister would be with me and | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
some of the campaign is from the GMB union to look further into these | :30:43. | :30:50. | |
practices. And a looking at how these wages will be beneficial to my | :30:51. | :30:58. | |
local community. And my experience, the Honorable Lady is on two things | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
before the rest of us. I would be delighted to meet with her. What a | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
good fellow he is. We are grateful to him. I thank him for engaging | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
with those questions so comprehensively. We come in out of | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
the statement by the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change. | :31:19. | :31:27. | |
It gives me great pleasure to report to the house on the United Nations | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
conference of parties in Paris last week. There has been delivered a | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
historic new global climate change agreements that takes a significant | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
step forward towards reducing on a global scale the image that cause | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
climate change. For the first time, nearly 200 countries have made a | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
commitment to act together and to be held accountable. In a doing so, | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
that's integrated help protect not just our environment for our | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
national and economic security. Now and for generations to come. | :32:01. | :32:15. | |
As the Minister said in his speech, instead of making excuses tomorrow | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
to our children and grandchildren, we should be taking action against | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
climate change today. Mr Speaker, I am proud to say there aren't no more | :32:22. | :32:23. | |
excuses. We have committed to action. This unequivocably in the | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
interest of brand. It moves towards a level playing field. The Society | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
of business has thrived as we transition to a low carbon economy. | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
This is a deal we are committed to, recognises that action by one state | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
alone cannot and will not solve climate change. And is what we do | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
together that can copy I would like to say that all parties in the house | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
can take significant credit for this. To gather, we passed the 2000 | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
and climate change act that set an example to the world of what | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
ambitious action looks like. To gather, since Copenhagen in 2009, we | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
have supports a long and difficult complex negotiation that has brought | :33:14. | :33:16. | |
us to this point. I want to pay tribute not to sue the Prime | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
Minister and my colleagues across government, but to my predecessors | :33:22. | :33:24. | |
as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change for all of the hard | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
work that they put in to bring us to this point. As a country, we should | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
be proud of the role we have played, leading into the EU, working closely | :33:35. | :33:42. | |
with major global players including the United States and China, and | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
leaving many negotiations. My department has worked tirelessly to | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
build political conditions and the capacity to enable countries to act. | :33:50. | :33:56. | |
The UK team in the Paris show a commitment, passion, and resilient. | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
They asked me to chair a finance session at 4am on Friday morning, I | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
was well supported, when I left at 6:30am, they stayed to write up the | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
conclusions and send them to the presidency. That was commitment. The | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
UK played a key role in building alliances and share positions | :34:21. | :34:22. | |
especially with the most vulnerable country to ensure that it can be | :34:23. | :34:30. | |
maximised. This was not done to us, it was done by us. Indeed, it | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
reflects many elements that we as a country has committed to as part of | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
the climate change act. Of course, Paris is not the end of the road. We | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
cannot sit back and say job done, we are far from that. Paris is the | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
beginning, now the hard work to implement the agreements began. That | :34:53. | :34:55. | |
may turn to what the countries have agreed to. First, we have set up a | :34:56. | :35:06. | |
net zero emissions abide the end of the century. The ship to global | :35:07. | :35:14. | |
antelope carbon economy will happen and provide the confidence needed to | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
drive the scale of investment required. We have confirmed our | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
collective ambition to limit global temperature rises, to below 2 | :35:23. | :35:31. | |
degrees. We have agreed a further aspiration of 1.5 degrees. The | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
current level of commitment by individual countries will not meet | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
this ambition. Crucially, countries will come back to the table to | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
assess overall progress toward the 2 degrees goal in 2018 in every five | :35:47. | :35:54. | |
years thereafter. As an grass investment grows and the cost comes | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
down, the parent process will provide not just the opposite sea, | :35:58. | :36:07. | |
but the political process. Starting in 2020, countries are expected to | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
update their own plans to cut emissions and will be legally | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
applied it to do so again every five years. Best, providing regular | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
political moment to scale up ambition. Disagreement is not only | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
comprehensive, it also recognises the role of both the developed | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
economies and emerging economies, helping the poorest and most | :36:31. | :36:38. | |
affordable to transition to a low carbon economy. Over the last five | :36:39. | :36:48. | |
years, the UK's climate fund has been helping millions of the world | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
for to withstand weather and rising temperatures. At the summit in | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
September, the Prime Minister announced a uplift to increase | :36:58. | :37:05. | |
financing by 50%, with ?5.8 billion of climate finance over the next | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
year is to support for invulnerable countries to adapt to climate | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
change. This is part of a global commitment to mobilise 100 billion | :37:15. | :37:23. | |
dollars per year for the public and private sector and support economic | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
growth through 2020. Germany, France, Japan, the United States, | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
and Canada has increased an increase in their climate finance as well. As | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
important as the parents agree with is, we will only achieve our | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
ultimate ambition if it acts as a capitalist, from all parts of | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
society is. That is why it has been so important to see real action over | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
the last month from business and civil society. For example, a new | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
initiative, Mr innovation will see some of the economies doubling | :37:57. | :38:05. | |
investments in clean energy research and development. Private investors | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
will join us and is endeavored to bring down the cost of low carbon | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
technologies. Here, in the UK, we have committed to double spending | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
and clean energy research development so that by 2020, will be | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
spending in excess of ?400 million. This has been amassed by 19 other | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
countries worldwide. This is in recognition of the fact that the | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
wildly tackle climate change if we find technologies that are both | :38:34. | :38:41. | |
clean and cheap. Let me tell you, the announcement I made last month, | :38:42. | :38:43. | |
that I would set out proposals to close the hole by 2025 and restricts | :38:44. | :38:50. | |
use by 2023 added to momentum in Paris. The Paris agreement marks a | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
historic turning point. It builds on protocol and for the first time as | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
it provides a comprehensive framework and words not only | :39:02. | :39:03. | |
developed countries, but nearly every country of the world, has | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
committed to the global action needed to solve global problems. Of | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
course it was hard fought, and it required a compromise to bring | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
everybody with us, it has not solve every problem in the one ago. Now, | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
we have to implement the commitments made. We should not underestimate | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
the significance of what has been achieved. All parties have | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
recognised that economic and global security required us to tackle | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
climate change. All have come together to commit to a single goal. | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
Net zero carbon emissions by the end of the century. All have agreed to | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
set out plans to curb emissions and be held accountable for their | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
actions. We have made a huge step forward in meeting our | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
responsibilities, to this and our future generation. As the excellent | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
executives Terry to the... Said, I used to say we can't, we must, we | :40:02. | :40:13. | |
will, now I can say we did. Can I start by thinking the Secretary of | :40:14. | :40:16. | |
State for her statement. And footage of you that she paid for the success | :40:17. | :40:23. | |
of Secretary of State. She is right to recognise that the crockpot is | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
consensus that has existed since 2008, helped to build that road to | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
Paris and gave the UK its voice in the negotiations, it is a precious | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
legacy for all of us. We must not allow it to fraction now. For the | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
first time, leaders from nearly every country in abroad have come | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
together, to cut carbon pollution and a of to a path for a cleaner and | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
greener future. We have a common goal of building a carbon neutral | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
global economy with a generation to reduce pollution, switch to cleaner | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
energy, and all countries have agreed as she rightly recognised to | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
raise their ambition every five years into the future until the job | :41:07. | :41:13. | |
is done. In is welcome of the Secretary of State made the point | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
that the developed world would do with her share to ensure that 100 | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
billion are financed to us is poorer and more portable country. This is a | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
moment to celebrate. Not because this is sufficient, we must be | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
honest that the pledge is put forward by each country do not add | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
up to a commitment that will keep temperature rises below 2 degrees, a | :41:36. | :41:44. | |
gives us enough to take a us much closer to climate safety. The error | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
of unchecked fossil you'll uses, to him and. We are stronger and safer | :41:52. | :42:01. | |
when we work together both at home and abroad. Our voice has been heard | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
because we have worked closely with our friends and the European Union, | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
we have spoken to go there with them, and united with one voice. Our | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
voice has been heard because, two of the heart of work and... They have | :42:15. | :42:27. | |
worked tirelessly with the diplomats and the foreign office to secure | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
this agreement. I would like to place on record our thanks for what | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
they have achieved. And to command the dedication to the British | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
scientist and the campaigners and evade groups in the business | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
leaders, and civil society organizations to mobilise public | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
support for this global deal, last month, myself and my Honorable | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
friend Swan hundreds of thousands of people to march peacefully through | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
the streets of London, and Edinburgh and other major cities of to ensure | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
that our voice was heard in the rooms of Paris. The question now is | :43:02. | :43:09. | |
what this deal means for Britain's. In recent months, the government has | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
made a series of decisions that have set us back on the road to climate | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
safety. Ministers have attacked the cheapest options for achieving | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
carbon targets which means that energy bills to household may rise | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
as a result. Last week, during the Paris negotiations, ministers | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
decided to raise household and energy bills again to the capacity | :43:34. | :43:36. | |
market auction which was the hundreds of millions of pounds, go | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
to energy companies to keep open power stations that would have been | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
opened anyway. It is difficult to see, how this is consistent with | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
what the Secretary of State said today and her claim to be acting to | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
control costs. Can she explain this today? And equally, ministers have | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
undermined our progress on the cob and stories which will be crucial. | :44:01. | :44:17. | |
In Yorkshire and Scotland, communities and engineers are | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
reeling from the chancellors assistant to ask ?1 billion fund. | :44:21. | :44:26. | |
Can see tell us today that this will be reverse? The government has | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
wasted no time and blocking of new wind farms even where they enjoy | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
strong local support of. They have made severe and short-sighted costs | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
for energy efficiency and solar power scheme. Thousands have lost | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
their jobs, thousands more could still. Millions will goal in this | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
winter facing cold homes and high energy bills, in this country that | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
is avoidable. The damnest to human life and the damage to the planet | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
for these positions if the Mets. Following the prime minister of | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
words in Paris, will she sell the house that the government as a whole | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
will listen? To stop the sell-off of the green investment bank, in a | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
manner that removes the mandate and means it is free to invest in fossil | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
fuels, to stop the tax on more efficient vehicles and to stop | :45:18. | :45:34. | |
another tax rate on the renewable energy industry, these are all steps | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
that will take us back on climate change and jeopardise British jobs | :45:39. | :45:40. | |
and industries for the future. Is raises the question, what is this | :45:41. | :45:42. | |
government plans for meeting rings climate change. The committee form | :45:43. | :45:44. | |
that British energy policy is failing and only this morning, it | :45:45. | :45:52. | |
was called for more clarity. News of the Paris deal and the goal it | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
contains, they told the BBC that businesses want to see domestic | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
policies that demonstrate commitment to this goal. Can the Secretary of | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
State confirm whether her governmental recent string, of the | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
Carina will be reviewed in light of the new assurances that we have sent | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
every country will play its part in addressing climate change. Secondly, | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
candy and at his secretary confirmed that the UK will continue to support | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
raising European targets on reducing carbon pollution by 2030 to ensure | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
that they're making our fair constitution, and grasping the | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
maximum potential for our economy for granted industries. Finally, | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
will be an undersecretary asked the independent secretary on climate | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
change to review the adequacy of Britain's existing carbon reduction | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
targets and lights of the new international goal of limiting | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
global temperature rises well below 2 degrees, I want to know more. Two | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
weeks ago, the prime minister said, when we look back, we will ask what | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
was it that was so difficult when the world was in peril. The | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
Secretary of State said in her statement to the house there are no | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
excuses. I look forward as to all my Honorable friend asked to hearing | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
how she intends to breathe life into this historic landmark agreement. | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
Low I thank her for her questions. I really welcome her support for the | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
overall deal. And answered her questions I would point out to | :47:31. | :47:37. | |
point. The first is that the UK's emissions are 1.2% of the world. Our | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
emphasis must go on making sure that we get an international deal. That | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
is why we were so committed. That is why we spent the past week trying to | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
achieve its. Working to ensure that we got China into the deal which is | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
26% of the world the mission was more than the EU in the US combined, | :47:56. | :48:02. | |
we remain committed. And we commit to making sure that we golf forward | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
on a low carbon future. There is no value in it if we do not have | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
influence in the rest of the world, that is what we achieved this week. | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
Making sure that that influence was absorbed and taken on, so that we | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
could receive agreement while very late on Saturday night. In tones of | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
answering her question on our position, we are committed to the | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
climate change act and to our goals, and to our carbon budget. But the | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
difference between her side of the house and ours, is that the will not | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
risk the security of supply, and be will not put additional costs on | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
consumers copy she asked about the capacity market and I am afraid that | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
her and I am afraid that her interpretation is wrong. The | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
capacity market is to take no risk when security of supply, that is | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
what we have done and we are proud of doing that. In terms of the | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
actions on renewables, this is about ensuring that our consumers that | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
they pay the rent price for the renewables that we remain committed | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
to. As the cost of renewables come down, it is absolutely right that | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
the subsidies come down, it is completely wrong to characterize the | :49:14. | :49:21. | |
eyes of -- is of having anything negative at all. We remain | :49:22. | :49:28. | |
committed. It was a tight spending round with the spending review with | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
the treasury, this was ?1 billion, and the fact that we made an | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
invisible not to proceed with it, I believe that CCS will have a | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
important part in the colonising in the future. Article he on industrial | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
CCS. Will work internationally to make progress on that. This | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
government is absolutely committed to the a low carbon future that is | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
valued for money and costly provide security to consumers and families. | :49:58. | :50:06. | |
As far as I'm aware, there are only two peer-reviewed studies which have | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
computed the total reductions for admissions promised by the members | :50:13. | :50:19. | |
Paris. Fan of them through the standard climate model and | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
calculated the impact on future temperatures. Both have concluded | :50:24. | :50:30. | |
that the temperature on 2100 as a result of this treaty will be a | :50:31. | :50:39. | |
point to degrees of what it would be. With the joy of the pound be | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
spent on as a small achievement be better spent on the alleviating | :50:45. | :50:51. | |
poverty and eradicating disease? I think the right Honorable Thompson | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
and for his questions. However, at the core of his question, is then | :50:58. | :51:00. | |
suggested that what we are doing here does not alleviate poverty. On | :51:01. | :51:07. | |
that, he cannot be more wrong. It is through climate finance and the | :51:08. | :51:10. | |
investment that will be coming to the private sector as well that the | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
government will be able to leverage, that we will help to alleviate | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
poverty that we will provide energy and areas of Africa and India that | :51:19. | :51:26. | |
had never happened before. I should gently point out that all of our | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
right Honorable members who were not present at the start of the | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
Secretary of State famous and not because. Now that I have made that | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
point, it will be unseemly for them to continue to stand, as well as | :51:42. | :51:51. | |
fruitless. I would like to add my thanks to the Secretary of State, | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
her team, and all of those who have made this possible both at home and | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
abroad, the term historic has been I think rightly so in terms of the | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
rhetoric around this. Who will be judged not by the words, led by the | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
deeds. If I can comment on that in this response to the statement. We | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
very much welcome the money that is being contribution it to climate | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
change, and those that contribute Alize to it. This deal is not | :52:20. | :52:27. | |
perfect, it has been an that it is not enough. There needs to be an | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
upping of our game at home and abroad if we will be meeting the | :52:32. | :52:39. | |
target of 2 degrees or below. And any major upping of our game if we | :52:40. | :52:49. | |
will meet 1.5 degrees. One gave an eloquent statement about the low | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
carbon economy and the one who answered the questions and | :52:54. | :52:59. | |
reiterated some of the appalling betrayals that the economy has | :53:00. | :53:01. | |
suffered at the hands of the government. There is no excuse in | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
the statement. For the last six months I have heard so many excuses. | :53:08. | :53:18. | |
On carbon capture and storage, excuses. The green investment bank, | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
more excuses. Will she rethink these policies, will she reinvest in them, | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
or are we to hear more excuses the possibilities are enormous. Yet, | :53:28. | :53:45. | |
we seem determined to throw away the lead that we have in various | :53:46. | :53:52. | |
technologies, at a time when we are following the work that my Honorable | :53:53. | :54:00. | |
friend have said, the government is penny wise but pound foolish. I have | :54:01. | :54:08. | |
had to question my hearing that this carbon capture is going to have a | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
Bright future. It may, but it will be technology developed by others, | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
and others will make money out of it. That is sold short sighted, it | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
is beyond belief. Scotland wants to play the part, had we can't play the | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
part, but be required of government to match the weather up with it the. | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
-- will she allow us to play our part or will we hear more excuses? I | :54:33. | :54:39. | |
do not agree with the characterize patients. I share his enthusiasm, | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
for the low carbon economy but we are going about this in a different | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
way, we are making sure that we deliver better value for money, and | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
we are investing in the future in a way that has not been done over the | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
25 years. For instance, with nuclear, and also with offshore | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
wind, which I'm sure he would support. We must support the low | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
carbon economy while also maintaining security of supply. I'm | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
sure he would also continue to support | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
My right honourable friend who called me to my concerns and they | :55:15. | :55:21. | |
talk about other countries commitments to climate targets. What | :55:22. | :55:23. | |
will my right honourable friend tell me ahead to encourage other | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
countries to meet their climate targets? I think the honourable Lady | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
for that question. She is right that not all countries have the same | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
resources as we have to meet those targets. I am happy to say that we | :55:38. | :55:40. | |
have a number of tools of which we offer to work with other countries, | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
which is very helpful for them, such as the global calculator which helps | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
them work out what steps they need to take to meet their targets. We | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
expect to step up that engagement to help them meet their targets. Mr | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
Speaker, can the Secretary of State for her role in this agreement. In | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
particular, the formation of the so-called high ambition Coalition | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
between developed countries and vulnerable countries, which is such | :56:08. | :56:09. | |
an important part of getting the deal that she did. If I can put it | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
this way, I think we want her on this site am I to be part of a high | :56:14. | :56:16. | |
ambition Coalition at home as well as abroad. In that context she | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
mentioned zero emissions and the important goal of net zero emissions | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
that is contained in the agreement, I believe the second half of the | :56:27. | :56:29. | |
century. Canty confirmed that that will apply not just globally come | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
about will apply to the tent every country that his signature he to be | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
agreement? I thank the right honourable gentleman for his words | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
and I share his enthusiasm nationally for high ambition. | :56:43. | :56:44. | |
Perhaps less of a Coalition for now. I would also say it is a great | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
achievement to have the zero emissions target. Within the | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
long-term goal. For now I think as far as the UK's concern we will | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
continue to focus on our climate change targets for 2015. Thank you | :56:59. | :57:07. | |
Mr Speaker. Given the UK's climate change laws are stricter am a down | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
to the obligations agreed in Paris, does my right honourable friend | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
agreed that there is a really risk of bridges business being put at | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
eight competitive disadvantage -- a competitive disadvantage if we do | :57:22. | :57:23. | |
not cut the cost of energy, particularly for energy intensive | :57:24. | :57:30. | |
companies. He is right to highlight the issue of competitiveness. Defect | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
is getting this global deal is a way of addressing the issue of | :57:36. | :57:37. | |
competitiveness, because other countries will have to step up and | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
make the same sort of plans that we are doing -- the fact is. The best | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
way to reduce the cost of energy is to make sure that the energy itself | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
is less costly by driving down the cost and the sort of actions that | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
this government has taken. Thank you Mr Speaker. And all the acres of | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
media covers with the Paris agreement, I think it's on the test | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
as comparison to what could have been a Mirko, by comparison to what | :58:04. | :58:05. | |
it should have been it's a disaster. I welcome the inclusion of the goal, | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
but that is meaningless without to deliver it. In particular keeping | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
the vast majority of fossil fuels on the ground. Can she tell us how the | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
government's recently agreed duty to maximise economic recovery of oil | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
and gas is anything other than completely incompatible with what | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
she just signed up to in Paris? Good to interpret that as a cautious | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
welcome from the honourable Lady. There is an element of this deal | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
which you must agree is rather extraordinary, having 200 countries | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
participate copy the answer to your question is that we cannot take any | :58:40. | :58:45. | |
risk at all with energy security. Maximum economic recovery is | :58:46. | :58:47. | |
absolutely a commitment from this government. We have to get a balance | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
right. We have to make sure that we can protect energy security while | :58:52. | :58:57. | |
growing our low carbon economy. Mr Speaker, we can do both. Thank you | :58:58. | :59:06. | |
Mr Speaker. I congratulate the Secretary of State and her team for | :59:07. | :59:09. | |
what they achieved in Paris. She will be aware that since 1990 the UK | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
has decreased emissions by around 10%, faster than the EU. Other | :59:13. | :59:18. | |
countries within the EU, had difficulty achieving anything like | :59:19. | :59:20. | |
that. In the Austria, Holland, Maine, Portugal have all increased | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
commissions since 1990 -- Spain. What policy exists as within the EU | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
to make sure that is not allowed to continue? Mr Speaker, the honourable | :59:32. | :59:36. | |
gentleman who is so experienced in this field has highlighted the issue | :59:37. | :59:41. | |
of the use sharing response abilities which we will move to next | :59:42. | :59:46. | |
year. I don't doubt this will be a challenging negotiation, but the | :59:47. | :59:49. | |
UK's experience is that we can demonstrates our leadership by | :59:50. | :59:51. | |
showing that we have driven down emissions while growing our economy | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
and we hope we'll be able to demonstrates at two other countries | :59:57. | :00:01. | |
and encourage them to follow suit. Chair of the select committee. Hear, | :00:02. | :00:05. | |
hear! Firstly, can I thank the Secretary | :00:06. | :00:08. | |
of State for a statement and congratulate her on the involvement | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
in the Paris talks. Will she take the chance to review and reset the | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
last six months of policy of our government? The cheapest funds of | :00:17. | :00:22. | |
the generation, renewable generation, energy efficiency and | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
CCS, all cut. Will she look again at the diesel generator loopholes and | :00:28. | :00:29. | |
make sure that transportation plays a full part with Mike I feel that | :00:30. | :00:38. | |
this government has been, as they viewed to government has cost to | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
date rather than saving for the future. Especially when it comes to | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
be clear. Just what will change in her department due to be Paris | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
talks? Hear, hear! I am happy to say that the Paris | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
agreement allows us to continue on the path that this government has | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
set. In terms of delivering a low carbon future and sticking to our | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
climate change act commitment, but also always make a show that we take | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
no risk with security and provide value for money for consumers. Thank | :01:05. | :01:12. | |
you Mr Speaker. May I congratulate my right honourable friend on what | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
has been achieved and also the French government for magnificent | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
hosting of this summit. Given that, a lot of the climate finance pledged | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
by the wealthy nations is likely to be classified as ODA. Given many of | :01:25. | :01:33. | |
our friends in Europe so no sign of increasing the percentage of ODA | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
that they are giving as a percentage of their gross national income. Is | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
she concerned that some of this climate finance may be actually | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
taking away from the amount available on a for instance, for the | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
refugee crisis in Syria and other concerns around the world? Mr | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
Speaker, the honourable gentleman is right. My honourable friend is right | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
to praise the French government, who managed this in an extraordinarily | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
able way with great diplomatic skill. I would say the issue of the | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
$100 billion to be mobilised by 2020 is a challenging one for everyone | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
involved. And it is something that we will constantly return to to | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
ensure that it is delivered, but do not forget it is also mobilised. Is | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
not entirely the government to deliver it is also an attempt to | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
generate private-sector influence as well. Thank you Mr Speaker. I would | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
like to add my congratulations to all those involved in these | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
important talks in Paris. One of the most are mockable things about the | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
aspirations to hold reductions to one and a half degrees -- | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
remarkable. As it was said, the Paris process adds political | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
pressure to emissions reduction. Would she like to apply some of that | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
political pressure to be Chancellor of the Exchequer, who said the other | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
day that he hadn't inherited anything and the decision of carbon | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
capture is not to cut. I think I will welcome the honourable Lady's | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
comments. About the ambition that we have, which was also referred to | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
earlier, in terms of the 1.5 degrees which was achieved in working | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
closely with the high ambition Coalition. Mr Speaker, it is no | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
longer a question of whether but when will tackle man's impact on the | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
climate. It is a huge achievement to have included developing economies | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
in the ambition. Moreover to make that ambition a relisted one. What | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
part having play in accelerating our need for game changing technology, | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
and what part of clean energy that will produce at Hinkley Point in | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
Somerset will happen in the process? He is right. The distinguishing | :03:47. | :03:55. | |
factor is that it includes developing countries. We are | :03:56. | :03:57. | |
committed to ensure that we work across other governments to develop | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
new energy sources in our particular programme of mission innovation, but | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
I do also agree that nuclear, including Hinkley Point which is the | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
first nuclear deal to be commissioned for 25 years, is going | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
to be an important part of the low carbon future. The Secretary of | :04:13. | :04:19. | |
State is correct in wanting a level playing field between this country | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
and other countries. At the failure of Paris to reach the aspirations of | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
the German conference to have legally bought binding limits on | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
carving dioxide admissions for all countries, so he puts us at when we | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
do have legally binding commitments. We've already lost great talks of | :04:38. | :04:46. | |
the Armenian industry. How to produce that level playing field to | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
the advantage of our industries? Hear, | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
The honourable Bob gentleman raises an important point. I would say | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
although there are some elements that are not legally binding, there | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
are plenty that are. The fact is that every country has to come at | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
every five years and did demonstrate what they are doing. There will be, | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
I help, and political moment at that point. NGOs, civil society, | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
businesses, watching and campaigning to make sure that we always make | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
progress. Countries cannot go back on the commitments, that can only go | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
forward. I say do not yet underestimate the impact this will | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
have internationally. Thank you Mr Speaker. Can I add my | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
congratulations to the Secretary of State and all those who worked many | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
years on achieving an impressive outcome. But can the Secretary of | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
State confirm whether the success criteria set before the conference | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
were actually achieved at the conference? A good question from my | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
honour will friend. I can say that most of our criteria were met. But | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
nobody will have left that conference saying that all of that | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
criteria were met. That is how we got a deal. Everybody had to cover | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
my day little. That was the achievement of the agreement. I | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
thank the Secretary of State for what is a landmark statement and | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
congratulate her on her personal stamina at 4am, and what she paid to | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
her predecessors of all political parties. I think she will agree that | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
the fact that Europe spoke at the one voice was a significant part of | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
the process -- but as one voice. Nonetheless, there is still | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
consistency needed. Does he agree it is essential that we go to harass | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
and sign up ambitious targets, but yet the inconsistency had a | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
meaningful role, signed in a last Parliament to deal with climate | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
change back at home? I would say that the success of the Paris | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
agreement was intended nationally determined contributions that each | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
country had to make and come forward with to participate. Almost every | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
country had done that by the date of the agreement. These are voluntary. | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
Very few countries criticised each other. Each country delivers in | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
their only. That is what the UK is going to do and that is what we will | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
continue to do. Mr Speaker, on current taint of uncontrolled | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
immigration, this country will have a population of 30 million more by | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
the end of the century -- current change. What effect does he think | :07:17. | :07:23. | |
that will have on our emissions? I can reassure the honourable | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
gentleman that the big influence, the most of our CO2 emissions, it is | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
generally from the power sector and from industry and we will constantly | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
be monitoring them in order to enable us to have continued | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
reductions. And I commended the Secretary of State and her officials | :07:43. | :07:44. | |
for the part they played in securing the Paris agreement? With that | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
agreement now in place, printable if anything need to be born ambitious | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
when it comes to emissions reductions -- Britain's. And we have | :07:53. | :07:54. | |
been. Yet we know the government are struggling to meet their renewables | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
target, when it comes to heat and transport. As in certain areas we | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
know be chancellor ultimately cause the shots copy will she let the | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
House know what progress she has made in persuading her honourable | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
friend to do more to the that sector? Hear, hear! | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
The honourable gentleman is absolutely right with the renewables | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
target, the talented heat and transport. I can ensure that I am | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
working closely with the Secretary of State for Transport and local | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
government to put together a plan to ensure that we can make that target. | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
Thank you Mr Speaker. Secretary of State will be aware that a large | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
percentage still come from coal-fired power. Get to give some | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
results as she moves to our low carbon future that consumers prices | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
will remain affordable as well as the continued to supply, but also | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
carbon linkage? I can reassure my honourable friend that we would in | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
no way sacrifice our security of supply as we move towards a low | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
carbon economy. But I can also tell him that putting and end date is an | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
important part of making sure that we do meet our low-carb future -- | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
low carbon future. We should be proud that this is the first | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
developed country to put an end date on it. Hear, hear! | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
Can I ask the secretary of state whether she has full confidence that | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
there really will be adherent in terms of the funding commitments and | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
the action plans that governments have signed up to. And I commend her | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
on her statement on the work that went down to this agreement which | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
uses human rights language in a stronger way than before. And any | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
environmental agreement. How confident is she? The honourable | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
gentleman is right that the financial contributions, the $100 | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
billion by 2020, were a key element of bringing on developing countries | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
would have never participated before in this sort of commitment. I would | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
say to him that it is one side of the agreement and it is absolutely | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
essential that we do deliver on that. But it is not just governments | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
who would do it, but businesses as well. I think the success of the | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
business, of the agreement over the next 5-15 years will be tested if it | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
doesn't happen. Thank you Mr Speaker. I congratulate the | :10:21. | :10:22. | |
Secretary of State and her whole team for the part they played in | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
reaching this historic deal. She will know that it is not only about | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
acting globally, but locally. I wonder if she would join me in | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
paying tribute to community groups all around the country who are very | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
keen to meet with her to talk further about the role they can play | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
taking these goals further. I would always be delighted. She is of | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
course right that it is much more effective if these actions are taken | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
locally, nationally, but above all not top-down, internationally. Will | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
she bridge her rhetoric to reality by announcing investments in the | :11:01. | :11:08. | |
Swansea, Cardiff, and Newport, title game which will exploit and for the | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
first time ever, neglect immense power of the tides which are | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
entirely predictable and when linked to power schemes, are response will | :11:21. | :11:32. | |
that? Tidal power is green, not carbon, and eternal. The honourable | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
judgement is right that we are looking closely at the opportunity | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
for title power. We are in due diligence now. If we meet the | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
targets of being secure, clean, and affordable that we will certainly be | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
taking it very seriously. Thank you Mr Speaker. What assessment has she | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
made of the UK energy markets capacity to replace innovative call | :11:59. | :12:06. | |
by the cutoff date of 2020? I think my honourable friend for the | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
question. We will be doing a consultation at the beginning of | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
next year in order to address that. I have been very clear in the policy | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
choices I said out that we expect to bring on more gas in order to cover | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
some of that call that will be coming off. Thank you Mr Speaker. | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
Investors in renewable energy tell me that they want a certainty from | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
the government's energy policy. I wonder if the Secretary of State | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
could the David Teague -- could set out the key milestones consider any | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
Paris agreement for the announcement to be made in renewables? A lot of | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
our targets have not changed as a result of the Paris agreement I'm a | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
although of course I would discuss with them closely within my | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
department. We have already set up our plans. We will be setting out | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
shortly our plans for solar. Thank you Mr Speaker. The Scottish first | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
Minister announced a ?12 million adjustment in addition to the | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
Scottish government's announcement. What new money for adaptation is | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
being used as a world so -- result of the agreement? Is the Speaker, I | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
think my right honour will friend, the Prime Minister, has been | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
cleared. As I said my earlier comments he has already announced a | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
50% increase in our climate fund. That is being welcomed by developing | :13:28. | :13:35. | |
countries. Thank you Mr Speaker. With the Secretary of State agree | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
with me that this is really good news? The really hard work now | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
begins, turning aspiration into action. Will I tell her, and will | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
she agree with me, that we've got to maintain the view that this country | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
has had for some time of sharing intellectual property and innovation | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
with many other countries, entering to a Council committee on | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
sustainable production. Shares with other countries innovation that | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
could reduce their carbon emissions. He is like. Having that shared | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
vision across different countries is essential. Actually, the technology | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
section within the agreement is very important to some of the developing | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
countries to give confidence and. I would also add that we have doubled | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
our spent on innovation spending and energy to join the Americans and | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
other developed countries with image innovation, which is all about | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
sharing, investment and technology discoveries. Thank you Mr Speaker. | :14:35. | :14:42. | |
Can I congratulate the Secretary of State on her role in achieving this | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
historic agreement. But in doing so, can I say to her that she except | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
that if the government is going to meet its commitment and show some | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
leadership in the world, then it's got to challenge the process of | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
renewable energies. In particular, onshore wind. It was a cautious | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
parliament from the honourable gentleman. I would say that is not | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
what I found internationally. When I discussed it with other ministers, | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
what I found was a lot of interest in what we were doing to drive down | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
the cost of renewables. Renewables should not have a subsidy for ever. | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
The point is to try and engage with the industry so that they have a | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
lower-cost. The success of a truly deep carbonized low carbon, | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
international economy will be when Green energy really reduces and | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
cost. I have long been a supporter of cooperative immunity renewable | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
energy schemes. Met with one such company last week they tell me the | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
uncertainty that the government provided has caused problems for | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
planning any future. How will she provide policy certainty photos who | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
want to play our bit in meeting this agreement? Hear, hear! | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
I would remind the honourable gentleman that costs increases for | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
solar panels over the last 20 years have come down by 80% -- costs for | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
solar panels. I will surely be making an announcement about what | :16:07. | :16:08. | |
that will be coming down to going forward. I'm sure he will be | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
interested in that result. A statement. The Secretary of State | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
for Transport. With permission, Mr Speaker, I'd like to make a | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
statement about airport policy. Aviation is a British success story. | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
Today we have the third-largest aviation network in world. Second | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
only to be United States and China. Went with that success comes | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
charges. Heathrow is down, Gatwick is going up. The entire London | :16:36. | :16:42. | |
system will be full by 2014. Yet we need new connections to new cities | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
in the new economies. There are other challenges too. Airports | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
create jobs and opportunities. Technology is changing. Planes are | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
becoming quieter and more efficient. But there is still inevitably, and | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
environmental impact. For some, the argument seems simple. Opposed all | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
expansion anywhere, or back it but always somewhere else. Yes, there | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
are opportunities in the network of the national airports with global | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
connections from cities such as Birmingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, | :17:18. | :17:19. | |
Manchester, and Newcastle. But growth year will, alongside world in | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
the Southeast. -- growth here. Not instead of it. Which is why in | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
September 2012, Sir Heron Davis was asked to leads the commission. His | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
final report was published less than six months ago and made a strong | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
case for expansion in the Southeast. We have considered that evidence. | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
The government accepts the case for expansion. And the government | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
accepts that the airports commission short list of options or expansion. | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
Will begin work straightaway on preparing the building blocks from | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
airport national policy statement in line with the planning act of 2008. | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
Thing this new framework in place. Will be essential groundwork for it | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
implement them of the decision we take, wherever the new capacity is | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
to be built. That is the issue I want to turn to now. To Howard Davis | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
and his team produced a powerful report. Heathrow airport scheme was | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
recommended by the airports commission, but all three schemes | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
were deemed viable. We are continuing to consider all three | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
schemes. We want to see action. But we must get the next steps right. | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
Also those, keen to push ahead with expansion and for those who will be | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
affected by it. So we will undertake a package of overwork. First, we | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
must deal with air quality. I want to build confidence so expansion can | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
take place within the legal limits. So we will accept the environmental | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
audit committee's recommendation to test commission's work against the | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
government's new air quality plans. Second, we must deal with concerns | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
about noise. I want to get the best possible outcome for this, for local | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
residents. So I will engage further with the promoters to make sure the | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
best package of noise mitigation measures are in place. Third, we | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
must deal with carbon emissions, so we will look at all the measures to | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
mitigate urban impact and address the sustainability concerns | :19:25. | :19:25. | |
particularly during construction. Fourth, we must manage the other | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
impacts on local communities. I want people who stand to lose their homes | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
to be properly compensated for the impact of expansion. And I want | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
local people to have the best access to the opportunities that expansion | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
will bring, including new jobs and apprenticeships. So we will develop | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
detailed community mitigation measures for each of the short list | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
options. We expect to conclude this package to work by the summer. | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
Critically, this means delivering the timetable for the additional | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
capacity set out by Sahara, does not alter. The commission reported that | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
an additional runway would be a requirement I2030 and we intend to | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
meet that. I am fully aware that some will wish we will go further. | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
And others will wish we are making no such progress at all. We are | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
prepared for that. I want to get this decision right. That means | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
getting the environment respond right and in the meantime, getting | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
on with the hard work to build a new capacity to the timetable set out by | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
Sir Howard in the commissions report. Mr Speaker, I commend the | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
statement to be housed. Hear, hear! Speaker Mac I think the Secretary of | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
State for the side of his statement. He should not have fallen to | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
announce that the Prime Minister has broken the clear promise he gave to | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
the House in July. When he said that the guarantee that I can give is | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
that a decision will be made by the end of the year. So my first | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
question is simple. Why is it the Prime Minister explaining his own | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
U-turn? Mr Speaker, my response is very limited due to the brevity of | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
his statement, but I want to register our protest to the | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
government's decision to announce this decision through the press. The | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
Secretary of State said that when an announcement is to be made he would | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
make it in the House, but instead we got a last-minute note from our | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
crisis Prime Minister explaining why he couldn't meet his own deadline. | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
That shambolic announcement on Thursday has rightly been condemned | :21:35. | :21:36. | |
by businesses and honourable members on both sides of the House. Hear, | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
hear! Mr Speaker, we need a new runway in | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
the southeast, but the environmental concerns have been known since July. | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
So what has he been doing for the last six months? The government's | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
announcement was such in shambles that the secretary of state do not | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
do is basic information about the new environmental and mitigation | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
more. What are the areas east believes still need to be addressed | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
-- he believes? Who will be leading this work? What are the terms of | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
reference and will look report? If you cannot answer these basic | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
questions, is it not confirmation that the government has amended | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
everything but the pretense of following due process? And that the | :22:20. | :22:21. | |
Prime Minister broke this promise because he is avoiding a by election | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
in Richmond ahead of the national interest? Hear, hear! | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
Turning to another issue raised by a statement, the government has always | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
said that the subcommittees recommendations will be subject to a | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
full Cabinet discussion. Has that discussion taking place? Or have his | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
colleagues been left as much in the dark as the rest of the House? | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
Finally, what steps is he now taking to address the plight and | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
uncertainty that this lake politically motivated delay will | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
cause? Hear, hear! Mr Speaker, I find it rather hard to | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
except from the honourable lady that somehow we are taking too long with | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
this matter. Perhaps I would like to go for a little bit of the history. | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
In 2001, Labour ministers reported to be seriously considering building | :23:14. | :23:15. | |
a third runway. LAUGHTER At Heathrow. To relieve the | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
increasing congested in London. In December 2003, the then transport | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
Secretary publishes a white paper pulling for a third runway in a six | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
Tom Reynolds at Heathrow to be included within 12 years -- six | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
runway. In 2007, a public consultation document firmly in | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
favour of Heathrow to accommodate a new runway of 220,000 flights a | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
year. In 2009, the government approves a third runway taking the | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
number of flights and all by the airport from 480 house and -- | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
480,000 to more than 700,000 a year. So I don't think the party opposite | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
complaining about the time that we are taking to come to a decision on | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
a very thorough report is worthy. Indeed, the Leader of the Opposition | :24:09. | :24:16. | |
seems to think so as well. Because he gave an interview on sky | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
television last Thursday. And he was asked a question by a correspondent, | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
I think people are a little confused at the moment about exactly what | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
labour's policy on Heathrow specifically is. Can you clarify for | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
us? It is the labour position? Leader of the Opposition. The | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
position is that we put these questions on how we go ahead with | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
airport expansion on the basis of capacity across the Southeast copy | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
on the basis of need for a hug and of course the effects on | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
neighbouring communities. And the environment noise. Those answers | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
have to be given before any decision can be taken. About where expansion | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
should be going. There we are then. A gets better. So correspondence, so | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
at the moment you don't have a position on Heathrow specifically. | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
Leader of the Opposition, at the moment, that is our position. | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
LAUGHTER Was it yours? Mr Speaker, I don't | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
think I will think too many lectures about getting the timescale right. | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
What I said in my statement and what I stand by and the statement is so | :25:22. | :25:29. | |
Howard said that there needs to be a conclusion on the runway available | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
for operation by 2013. Even on the timetable I've announced today that | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
is well within possibilities of the programme that we are talking | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
specifically, in right demand light of the 2008 planning act, which is | :25:43. | :25:50. | |
was of course has by the last labour government -- in light of the 2008 | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
planning act. The previous commission led by Lord Justice | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
Roscoe, his recommendation was not accepted by the government of the | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
day. Is it not right to take time to consider two aspects. One is the | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
very weak section of the environmental aspect of developing | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
Heathrow. But also to address the fundamental contradiction that if it | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
is right to have a hub airport in London, Paris runways simply doesn't | :26:20. | :26:20. | |
suffice? I am grateful to my Honorable friend | :26:21. | :26:30. | |
who has covered this issue for a lot longer than anybody else in the | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
house. The points he makes are valid points which we need to address. | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
There are no doubts about the capacity to what is happening as far | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
as aviation and airport and aircraft movements are concerned. It is | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
something that I am incredibly grateful, not only to Davis, but to | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
the rest of the commission for the work that they have done in | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
producing a valuable report on which he will be able to come to | :26:56. | :27:03. | |
conclusions in due course. Can I think the Secretary of State for the | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
early sight of his statement? In Scotland 90% of international | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
visitors travel by air, a third of those come through Heathrow has a | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
hub. Salmon, shelve this, and whiskey are vital to the economy in. | :27:20. | :27:28. | |
-- shellfish. The UK government have known all of long all of the | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
environmental issues, they could have chosen Heathrow, Gatwick or | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
something new. All with environmental conditions. They could | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
have chosen nothing at all, indecision stops everybody from | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
action. It keeps people and communities, it is not just in | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
Scotland, it is not just me saying this. Let me quote the Minister of | :27:52. | :27:58. | |
State from June 2015. He said, "We cannot afford to stall on making a | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
position any longer, travel industry when driving indicates a thriving | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
economy. They must support the growth of the travel industry. " as | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
the Prime Minister of the head of the government has made clear, by | :28:16. | :28:22. | |
the end of this year, 2015, and D the Secretary of State in October | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
2012, when he said, he will be able to make recommendations in 2013. | :28:27. | :28:34. | |
Some people say it will take a long time, it will not take that long, | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
once they get under way. As he said to the conservative party, in | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
October 2012 in his speech, there is another area where we have to help | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
businesses as well. That the will be to compete internationally. The | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
runways are filling up at the Jets are circling our skies. That it's | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
hitting our prosperity, it is bad for the environment, it is putting | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
off investors and costing jobs. It is holding Britain back. This piece | :29:06. | :29:12. | |
to the conservative party conference, I do not have the | :29:13. | :29:20. | |
talents met a deputy speaker. The Prime Minister has told this house | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
that we will have it this implies. Let me ask this. Hear, Hear order! | :29:26. | :29:44. | |
Order! The Secretary of State. I was taken, I'd thought the Honorable | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
member was still in his various announcement. One of the things that | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
my Honorable friend has just said, he was in a holding position, one of | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
the things that he did not tell us was which scheme he supports, or | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
indeed which airport he supports, he has failed to do that, what I have | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
said is that it is right, this is a very big issue, it has with the | :30:09. | :30:15. | |
government for many will years. We do want to do further work on some | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
of the environmental impacts, bearing in mind of recent | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
developments which have happened. I would have thought that, the house | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
would have accepted at that bearing in mind that on the 26th of | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
November, there was a committee report from the environment which | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
was just looked into. Saying that we should take a fresh look at certain | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
issues, that is what we will do. Before we come to a position in the | :30:39. | :30:45. | |
summer. What my right honourable friend except, that there is a need | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
to reach a decision, on our airport expansion, but that should not be | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
done at the expense of environmental considerations. We have to get it | :30:57. | :31:05. | |
right, as he said, Sir David has accepted since he published his | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
report, the issue of air quality has moved on. Those changes must be | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
examined to make sure that we take edifice of that is like for like. I | :31:15. | :31:25. | |
certainly agree and thank my right honourable friend who took a great | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
deal of interest in this particular issue when he was in the department, | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
he is absolutely right. We have moved significantly further than | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
what has been with the been the case. Not only that, excepting the | :31:38. | :31:49. | |
recommendations which have been put forward, I think that enables us to | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
look at some of the issues which come about as a result. Says the | :31:54. | :32:01. | |
report was published but also from other applications that will affect | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
communities. And what implications we can put in for those affected to | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
make this a more acceptable position in the longer term. Luke over two | :32:11. | :32:19. | |
years ago, the transport select committee supported the expansion of | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
capacity, in the national economic interest. Back Heathrow with | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
environmental safeguards, the Davids commission which was supported six | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
months ago came to very similar conclusions. It appears that the | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
government has done no work or very little work since that time, we are | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
now six months on, according to the CPI, the UK economy is losing out. | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
We are losing out about ?1 billion a year because of the lack of | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
long-haul capacity. Will be a position ever be taken? I think in | :32:51. | :33:00. | |
fairness to the Honorable Lady, she was part of every government affairs | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
for many years to make edifice and as far as where the extra capacity | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
was concerned. The point I would make the Honorable Lady is this, it | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
is important that we have the new capacity up and available by 2030. | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
What I have talked about today is still within that timetable, having | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
that capacity available by 2030. I think, taking a little longer, | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
actually some of the work that we will be embarking on, some of the | :33:29. | :33:31. | |
work on air quality has not been done. We have maybe slow the process | :33:32. | :33:39. | |
down rather than we that of. -- speed it up. The Labour Party may | :33:40. | :33:47. | |
not have done is completely irrelevant. It has no interest to | :33:48. | :33:57. | |
us. What he agree that this position not to make a division is truly... | :33:58. | :34:04. | |
It is absolutely no way to run what he is calling a world-class | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
transport system to support a world-class economy. Can he tell me | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
exactly, wife and the day commission reported absolutely clearly to what | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
their preferred position was without any prevarication, would he tell me | :34:20. | :34:26. | |
what was the point of it? A number of what's, I am sorry that my right | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
honourable friend of mine think that the situation is a fact of no action | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
from a previous government, previously irrelevant. I do not | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
accept that. The simple fact is, I think what the David's commission | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
has done, is identified a report that extra capacity is needed. There | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
are options that can be considered and we are right to consider those | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
three options. I hope very much, that by the summer, we will be able | :34:56. | :35:08. | |
to favour that. The Secretary of State knows I hold him in high | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
regard even when I heckle him. But it took them a few months to get | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
past the global Democrats and red light for the increase, it took the | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
David's commission three years to get beyond the commission and about | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
another six months to avoid having a statement until today, lie doesn't | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
the Secretary of State just admit that this is a political fix to get | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
us past another election and London, and own up giving his own activity | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
in honesty that the has nothing to do with the national interest. I | :35:42. | :35:50. | |
don't mind the occasional hackle from the Honorable member, by now | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
I'm quite used to it. What I would say is that when he says of it is | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
just a fixed path the mayoral election, if it had been a fix to | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
get past the election, we would have said that when David was published | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
that we weren't going to respond for 12 month. My Honorable friend has | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
always been perfectly clear and where he stands on this particular | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
matter. Like the Honorable member, when he was a minister of state | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
attending cabinet in 2009, said that he was firmly in favour of Heathrow. | :36:27. | :36:35. | |
My right honourable friend has held office since the commission received | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
its own destruction. -- instructions. And they will know | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
that the commission urges the government to make an early decision | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
on its recommendations, further delay will be increasingly costly | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
and will be seen, nationally and internationally as a sign that the | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
United Kingdom is unwilling or unable to take the steps needed to | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
maintain its position as a well-connected open trading economy | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
in the 21st century. I know that my Honorable friend is a decent and | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
loyalty player, and is loyally preventing the team position today. | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
Does he understand, that when the conservative team imitates the | :37:18. | :37:20. | |
Labour candidate for Mayor of London, by putting personal and | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
party interests ahead of the national interest, we all lose. I | :37:25. | :37:33. | |
say to my Honorable friend, who is a distinguished chairman of a select | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
committee, I always expect his select committee to listen to with | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
the respect at eight select committee should be listened to. I | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
would refer him to the environmental committees recommendations where it | :37:48. | :37:49. | |
is recommended that the government takes more time to address the on | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
air quality. On a quality, the government needs to re-examine the | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
commissions findings in light of his finalised air quality strategy. This | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
is a report that was published on the 26th of November. I point out | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
that today is the 14th of December. Even with the best in the world, it | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
would be impossible to a, expect and respond to what it has said. I say | :38:16. | :38:23. | |
to my Honorable friend, I am giving another select committee the kind of | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
respect that he would expect for his own select committee. The government | :38:29. | :38:40. | |
has made a mess of this. It does not come well with other decision. The | :38:41. | :38:49. | |
government is completely... What reassurances can they give that they | :38:50. | :38:58. | |
will be able to take those long-term decisions for competitiveness of our | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
nation and will not be defrauded by short-term considerations? The | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
national infrastructure committee will be subject to the decisions | :39:09. | :39:16. | |
that this house takes. If that was even the case, and the way that the | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
national infrastructure committee set up by the labor opposition if he | :39:21. | :39:28. | |
succeeded in the general election. I think the truth is that the | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
Honorable member is right and that these are big issue. Setting up the | :39:32. | :39:38. | |
issue is vague way forward It will still be for this house, and for the | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
government to make sure that it is abiding by other legal requirement | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
such as air quality and other issues that we have to take into account | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
the making the position. May I commend the Secretary of State for | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
his statement, may I also applaud the government for putting | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
environmental impact as an important issue, as part of that work, will | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
the government also investigate, current noise and air pollution | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
problems, with two runways at Heathrow? I understand the | :40:12. | :40:20. | |
conditions faced by my Honorable friend constituents, I did mention | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
noise, I hope I mentioned noise and my statement as one of the | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
considerations that we have got to get right, but also with the | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
advances of technology as well. The planes are becoming quieter. She is | :40:31. | :40:37. | |
right and she represents the constituency very closely affected | :40:38. | :40:40. | |
by this, it has to be done by looking at the mitigation measures | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
which will be put in place by any of the three scheme promoters. The | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
Secretary of State is an honourable puzzlement, he is my constituent. -- | :40:51. | :41:01. | |
honourable gentleman. Can I ask him, he talks about the best possible | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
outcome for local residents, would he accept that my constituents may | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
be considered as local residents for Heathrow but it is important that | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
they are taken into consideration because they live under a | :41:15. | :41:16. | |
early-morning noise pollution which is shopping. And asked runway will | :41:17. | :41:25. | |
make that much worse. -- an extra runway. We are made put an end to my | :41:26. | :41:36. | |
flight back to referred to. B are things that have to be taken into an | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
account. I don't exercise my vote there. Either the government has | :41:42. | :41:54. | |
decided to go ahead with Heathrow expansion but delaying the | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
announcement to avoid embarrassing it... Or it needs more time. Is it | :42:00. | :42:12. | |
worth to told today that is a cowardly and pathetic way to make | :42:13. | :42:19. | |
this an issue? Here is some who has taken a view on the position before | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
the government has made the decision. That is typical what he | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
does. I have an opal with the house as to their reason for the extra | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
work that needs to be done. There are people who have been incredibly | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
consistent on this matter, there are people on the other side of the | :42:35. | :42:36. | |
house that have been less consistent. As I went to the whole | :42:37. | :42:44. | |
programme, of where we actually got to, as far as the times tables are | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
concerned, I think it has been wasting time. Does my Honorable | :42:52. | :43:01. | |
friend understand the dismay and the frustration in the Southwest as a | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
result of this latest delay. Our infrastructure comes to the west of | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
London, he himself has been responsible for a massive rail | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
investment. Since his letters to label impact investment in our | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
region, what confidence can we have that the decision will be arrived at | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
next summer because this is not a London issue than the national | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
issues. I agree that this is a national issue, I am grateful to | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
him, for pointing out the amount of infrastructure investment that this | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
government can point out. The fact that we are increasing investment in | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
infrastructure by 50% in this Parliament, so that I am proud of. | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
When my Honorable friend comes to say that this delay will not allow | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
us to meet what the commission report says, I disagree with him. | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
Even the will with what I'm saying, which is a decision by the summer of | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
next year, we will be in a position to need the time table of extra | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
capacity by 2030, which is when they said it is physically needed by. -- | :44:08. | :44:19. | |
desperately. It puts the political career of the Taliban member for | :44:20. | :44:28. | |
Richmond Park -- Honorable member. He cannot even be in this place, he | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
was not in his place at the beginning. Can I say to the | :44:34. | :44:46. | |
Secretary of State, I do not believe, perhaps he can tell, that | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
there are any new or later and environmental considerations, that | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
weren't known, or have not been known to the government over the | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
last ten years or so? Well, I am very much regretting the position | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
which the Honorable member takes, he served on the transport select | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
committee for a long time. My Honorable friend for Richmond | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
position on the expansion of Heathrow has always been perfectly | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
clear. I don't think anybody can be in any doubt. His presence and the | :45:18. | :45:25. | |
chamber is more that can be said for the right Honorable member for two | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
things. Which I pointed out and said that in 2009 in the evening standard | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
that he was in favour of Heathrow expansion, he was a transport | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
minister attending cabinet. My Honorable friend has always been | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
very specific on where he stands on this particular issue. I think his | :45:47. | :45:55. | |
question was unworthy. My right on over friend is right to nail down | :45:56. | :46:03. | |
environmental issues for. With that said, last week, the chief executive | :46:04. | :46:11. | |
of Heathrow Airport indicated that Heathrow is full for flight | :46:12. | :46:18. | |
purposes. We are now losing business to Dubai, and Frankfurt. We have to | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
take some action now. It will be 15 years before there will be any | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
wheels on new comment anywhere in the southeast. Will my right | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
honourable friend do his utmost to get the other airport open again to | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
relieve the pressure on Heathrow and paper to forward. -- Britain. My | :46:37. | :46:44. | |
Honorable friend has been leading his campaign and never misses an | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
opportunity to mention the Manchester Airport. The point he | :46:48. | :47:01. | |
makes, however about what they said on the today programme last Friday, | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
he was talking about the capacity at the moment flying from Heathrow | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
Airport and the people using the planes which are currently flying | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
out, for the movement of freight. What he is talking about is stepping | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
up a completely new operation. I wish him well in his campaign. I | :47:21. | :47:32. | |
believe that the delay is not from political experience these. The | :47:33. | :47:38. | |
Secretary of State from transport has recognised that I have known, is | :47:39. | :47:44. | |
the expansion of Heathrow is too difficult. Mattern Dep to Speaker, I | :47:45. | :47:54. | |
would the Secretary of State to address the business case for which | :47:55. | :48:01. | |
the Airport commission has had some differences among each other. I | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
would like him to address the ground security risk and crash risk. And | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
that they are properly assessed. They are not in the Airport | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
commission report. I would ask that he forced London, Heathrow Airport | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
to declare where the fly-past will be. And also the differences between | :48:24. | :48:30. | |
the airport commission is recommending and what the Heathrow | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
Airport is prepared to accept. I think I may need an adjournment | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
debate to answer those questions. Those are points which the Airport | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
commission has looked at in detail. Love the questions she has asked I | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
have said. Extra work is being done on that. That is the right thing to | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
do. As one who publicly supported an increase of the movement in my | :48:56. | :49:00. | |
constituency, may have my right honourable friend, to confirm to the | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
house and that the government is not ruling out additional capacity, at | :49:07. | :49:18. | |
the Gatwick and Heathrow. Could he tell us if he thinks that the | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
Heathrow hub proposal would be far less destructive and stands a better | :49:24. | :49:31. | |
chance than it previously did? I think, I have said, and will say to | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
my Honorable friend that all three options are options which are under | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
consideration, that is a third runway at Heathrow, or a second | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
runway at Gatwick. That is a position and it remains a position. | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
My Honorable friend who is a keen aviator himself will know that some | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
of the difficulties, which are a phase and have to be addressed. That | :49:54. | :50:02. | |
is the right thing to do. I admire the Secretary of State explaining | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
that the Prime Minister has decided to be indecisive, can he explain | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
why, if he is so keen to give further consideration to the | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
environmental considerations of air pollution, his government has been | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
so heavily in the European commission, lobbying. They have | :50:23. | :50:31. | |
whole is that we have been indecisive, he was a member of a | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
government who can make the official whatsoever on this particular | :50:36. | :50:38. | |
matter, the whole question of where we stand on various issues within | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
the European commission and the European Parliament, on matters of a | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
whole issues and not necessarily one individual or small items. My right | :50:49. | :50:57. | |
honourable friend that justifies his delay by saying quite rightly that | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
he wants to get this position right. It just occurs to me that if we had | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
done so with a test to, it could have been cheaper and less damaging. | :51:08. | :51:17. | |
That does not need a reply. I think I should give Rogers for record. -- | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
I think I should give one just for the record. The route has gone | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
through considerable improvement for HS two. | :51:30. | :51:41. | |
Something straight from the Minister. What do we want, Airport | :51:42. | :51:48. | |
expansion, when do at the appropriate juncture, and the good | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
time, after reports and a cost of millions of pounds of the taxpayers | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
off for a by election in Richmond Park. Is used to be indecisive but | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
now he is not so sure. Will the government get on with it. Met him | :52:05. | :52:14. | |
Speaker, I am still waiting to hear, it may be just a simple easy answer | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
what the SMP's position is on this matter. Whiskey and do they support? | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
They are silent on its. They want everybody else to give their answer | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
of once a decision is made of a wide packet and say that they would go a | :52:29. | :52:31. | |
different product because that seems to be the only point of the SMP in | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
this chamber. Wait for this is to be made and then attack a. No wonder | :52:37. | :52:39. | |
there is such a difficult position today. At the affects of a hub | :52:40. | :52:47. | |
airport in the Vatican and the strengths to other parts. Those who | :52:48. | :52:55. | |
wish to travel transatlantic and get seeds cannot because the first fight | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
is around midday. The capacity is vital to the economy. I want to | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
place on the record, that I believe that the options before us are the | :53:06. | :53:14. | |
wrong option. Take this opportunity to look again the. Before I call the | :53:15. | :53:23. | |
Secretary of State, we are asking questions not making statements, | :53:24. | :53:26. | |
those questions should be a lot shorter. The Secretary of State. I | :53:27. | :53:33. | |
hear what my Honorable friend says, but the cause for most people, I | :53:34. | :53:47. | |
think it may take longer. Ivo Madam Deputy Speaker, given the high risk | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
that the Secretary of State has announced today, it does not bring | :53:53. | :53:59. | |
the Heathrow claim any closer. Why does the Secretary of State not | :54:00. | :54:09. | |
revert to the Gatwick option, it will be ready Ray before 2030. And | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
will allow Birmingham to complement Gatwick. Well, I did say in my | :54:16. | :54:22. | |
statement of the importance of other airport in the United Kingdom. I | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
haven't seen them grow and the more services being offered from both | :54:26. | :54:33. | |
services. -- have seen. Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle, and others I | :54:34. | :54:46. | |
think the point is well made. Services from other airports are | :54:47. | :54:54. | |
also very important indeed. The Secretary of State said that the | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
government accept the case for expansion but that is why they set | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
up the commission and the first phase, so it did not need three | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
years to tell the government that. He goes on to say that the | :55:04. | :55:09. | |
government accept the short list of option. He present the cases as | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
though there are three equally short list of options by the Airport | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
commission, is it not the case that the Airport commission made an | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
unequivocal recommendation. Said the government not be open about that? | :55:23. | :55:29. | |
Is he aware that last week the chief executive was expressing concerns | :55:30. | :55:32. | |
about the cost of Heathrow said, there is no case for expanding | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
Gatwick, very few airline support the proposal and no one would move | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
so why Heathrow remains open. I think my Honorable friend could have | :55:42. | :55:54. | |
some other quotes from Mr Wass. If we are going to the games of just | :55:55. | :55:57. | |
quoting from a Willie Walsh I think we will find that there are many | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
quotes that we can have on this particular subject. What I think is | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
correct, is for the government to look in light of the environmental | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
work that we are going to be doing in light of the mitigation, all | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
three options, and then come to the house once we have divided on which | :56:15. | :56:16. | |
of the By the way he has responded to | :56:17. | :56:27. | |
questions here. Making it an issue of party ping-pong and hold us | :56:28. | :56:30. | |
responsible for what the light. Let's be absolutely clear. I welcome | :56:31. | :56:38. | |
his remarks about air quality which is very important for Heathrow. But | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
he has heard me speak about the fact that there are more European | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
headquarters for multinational companies that in Scotland, Wales, | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
Northern Ireland put together. What research has he done on how view of | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
such companies will remain in the UK in the UK as a result of the delays | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
which are going on about this decision? I'm sorry that she was so | :57:03. | :57:08. | |
disappointed with the way I respond to. I respond and partly to the | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
labor front bench attacked the indecision is that the government | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
was making. I realised the honourable lady has presented a | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
petition to support the expression of Heathrow Airport. But this is a | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
thing something which does the black colleagues and parties. Advocate a | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
front for the government to measure the proper environment work is done | :57:32. | :57:39. | |
before any move forward is taken. I have to observe that the government | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
has a seven to have rather of the in regards to this issue. But at least | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
they have might friend's to dig them out of such a whole. Can my friend | :57:50. | :57:52. | |
assured me that this decision will be taking and that decision will | :57:53. | :57:59. | |
favour the Davis commission, which had a clear recommendation to build | :58:00. | :58:08. | |
a runway at Heathrow? The Shadow Chancellor said to say stop digging. | :58:09. | :58:12. | |
He should learn lessons from his own bench. Can I say to my friend as far | :58:13. | :58:27. | |
as the point that he makes, the important part of the Davis | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
commission was too after capacity in place by 2030. I believe given what | :58:32. | :58:36. | |
I have said the date we are on schedule to be able to deliver. To | :58:37. | :58:48. | |
indicate my frustration at somebody who supports the expansion of | :58:49. | :58:54. | |
Heathrow and the progress has been cut up an internal conservative | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
holding pattern, but the Secretary of State has now three occasions | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
this evening reiterated the commitment to the 2030 time scale. | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
Cannot ask him to assure us in this house that is six months' time, that | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
decision will be taking for the diamond Road? I hope to come back | :59:10. | :59:17. | |
the House in the summer. I am not going to say exactly where that | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
leads us as far as today's date is concerned, but I think that the | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
Honorable member says, and I fully accept the point, the whole point | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
about services to Northern Ireland is incredibly important. Northern | :59:31. | :59:37. | |
Ireland is already well-connected to London, there are around the 17th | :59:38. | :59:40. | |
out of place between Belfast and London in 2014, and of these around | :59:41. | :59:46. | |
6000 were to Heathrow. I do not underestimate the importance to | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
another island and to Scotland as far as connectivity and connections | :59:51. | :59:53. | |
and to are concerned. -- Northern Ireland. That the decision on the | :59:54. | :00:02. | |
due room rate is met on the mission of environmental data that has | :00:03. | :00:04. | |
nothing to be robust, that will simply lead to delays and legal | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
challenges for longer than would happen if decision proceeded | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
straightaway. London Gatwick have a pretty brief me on the concerns | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
about the quality of the Davis commission data. Love my friend | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
ensure that the neck two months will ensure that people look at all the | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
data that habit as robust as possible so that for the decision is | :00:29. | :00:30. | |
made, it can be enacted straightaway? He is absolutely | :00:31. | :00:37. | |
right. If there are any lessons learned from the preparations of | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
HS2, is to make sure that all process go through diligently and | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
properly. There are a number of efforts to get judicial reviews as | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
far as HS2 was concerned. And nearly all of them fell. The Secretariat | :00:53. | :01:01. | |
they have come to the house today to hoodwink us and thinking that he is | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
the most incompetent and indecisive Minister Secretary of State that has | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
ever been. But no one is told by his attempt to take airheads on behalf | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
of the Honorable member for Richmond Park. This is a fixed for next | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
years's mayoral election and nothing else. And nothing in the national | :01:18. | :01:31. | |
interest. I'll go do it again. The Shadow Chancellor has just said that | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
with a compliment. I think I would say to the Honorable member, and he | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
has been here for all the exchanges, is that it's not my friend for | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
Richmond less changed his position on but that he Heathrow should be | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
are not. And that's a good member from from to think, who was one he | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
was a chessboard minister, support that Heathrow is that it he was | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
firmly in favour of Heathrow 's expression. As far as the Merrill | :01:58. | :02:05. | |
elections, if we have wanted to put off until after the barrel election, | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
we have simply has said that we were not going to have a decision on this | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
for 12 months. The very fact that we are making progress is important, | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
but by 2030 and that is what we should do. No matter how skillfully | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
the Secretariat they tried to pretend otherwise, we all know that | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
announcements is all about trying to get the Conservative Party and the | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
Member for Richmond Park over next May in that particular line. Is no | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
way for government to make decisions and make announcements. The | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
government talked about the Northern powerhouse as it, which am sure | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
that. He must know that expecting Heathrow is essential for the | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
northern powerhouse, so will he please act in the national interest, | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
rather than just making at a announcement to benefit London and | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
are excellent mayoral candidates? I am very glad that my friend is shown | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
support to the northern powerhouse. Into something that is important to | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
me as very important to the government as well. We are back and | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
that with huge amounts of investment as far as lead electrification and | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
new trade services, two new franchises which were announced last | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
week will allow a very beneficial effect as far as transport | :03:34. | :03:35. | |
connectivity between our major cities in the north. That is vitally | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
important, as is getting the whole question right about future aviation | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
capacity. A pathetic way to make decisions about infrastructure in | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
our country. Doesn't be Secretary of State just feel shamefaced about | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
this mother subjugating painful example of political | :04:01. | :04:02. | |
procrastination, despite the obvious national interest to get on with it | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
at Heathrow. On a scale of one to ten, how does how embarrassed it the | :04:08. | :04:15. | |
Secretary of State? Political procrastination, Mr Speaker. 2001, | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
Labour ministers are reported to be seriously considering a third | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
runway. 2003, the Transport Secretary publishes a wide paper. | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
2007, the government publishes a public consultation document for | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
expecting Heathrow Airport. 2009, the government approves a third | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
runway at taking the number of flights have culled from the airport | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
from 480,000 to more than 700,000. I will take no lectures on deck and | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
big issues, but that the docking of the big issues was done when he was | :04:52. | :04:53. | |
a member of the last labor government. -- docking. I'm pleased | :04:54. | :05:01. | |
to Secretary of State recognises the importance of original airports, | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
will walk more and more capacity is developed in the Southeast. Can't my | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
friend say what he is doing to encourage more airlines to fly on | :05:13. | :05:20. | |
more routes from Manchester Airport? I think he is right. When we talked | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
about Manchester, I also talked about Birmingham, Newcastle, | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
Edinburgh and Glasgow. I think it is essential to try and get more | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
connectivity for airports so that people do not necessarily have to | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
travelled to London -- Heathrow or Gatwick to get the flash that the | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
one. I think it is important and the. -- flights. I like the | :05:41. | :05:49. | |
Secretariat, so I feel for him. -- Secretary. The more he tries to act | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
as a result, the more effectively becomes. To help him, and I suggest | :05:54. | :06:00. | |
that he take the opportunity to abandon environment to plans, budget | :06:01. | :06:08. | |
instead to improve server and accessed to other airports to get | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
better use of spare capacity there. And secondly that he delivers on HS2 | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
so that we can see far more people travelling by rail instead of taking | :06:17. | :06:27. | |
short flights. Pundits remind him that the Davis commission will set | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
up by the Coalition Government to make the case and examine the case | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
fully to what we should do for the future. I was proud of server in the | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
Coalition Government, I was proud of a lot of things that it achieved. | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
The Davis commission setting that was just one of them and I have | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
wanted us to back away from the difficult questions which oppose us | :06:48. | :06:49. | |
to back away from the difficult questions which oppose this was. | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
That she opposes to us. Can he confirm to me that the independent | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
and impartial airports commission clearly stated that Heathrow was the | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
best option and that if the government and the future decides | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
against that it wishes to expand and guess what, I get guarantees that | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
they should never that will be required in housing, hide ways, and | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
a broad network, and health care and all other public services will be | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
forthcoming? There is already significant commitments as far as | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
Gatwick and improving the infrastructure to Gatwick that | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
already taking place. For Douglas Camp will be coming on board over | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
the next few gears. So it is important that we get the access to | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
our airports correct, that is something which we are dealing with | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
over a period of time. If the decision should go towards deadwood, | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
would there be other consequences? That is the case in almost all the | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
options that we choose. Of course we want to look at those issues which | :07:59. | :08:06. | |
are the ones we want take forward. And I said to the government, while | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
our development some capacity for hot air balloons in the process of | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
trying to get, or mining, rather than just talking about this issue, | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
Birmingham has turned up capacity and a bread to find ways to do with | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
current issues about rather than waiting for it. I concur in which | :08:27. | :08:35. | |
Birmingham has gone about. At the expense of both of the runway and | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
the airport. A broad thing HS2 will have a very important impact for | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
Birmingham airports as well. I agree with him. The secretary as they give | :08:45. | :08:54. | |
us an assurance that there will be a decision and the summer, because my | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
constituents asked whether this thing will actually be decided upon | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
or not. About said to the house, a bigot is very important that we | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
stick to the timetable of Sir Howard's report. That is as ours | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
have a capacity available by 2030. Hubble will to follow the timetable. | :09:16. | :09:25. | |
-- I will want to. And the Secretary of State clearly state what | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
additional works have been undertaken to refine every SSD air | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
quality, and doors? Who is going to do that and who is going to assess | :09:34. | :09:41. | |
it? Can I ask of a Scotsman, can his mind... And I would point out that | :09:42. | :09:50. | |
not once did he ever states what summer, what gear you're going to | :09:51. | :10:02. | |
started? To try and reassure the gentlemen, there is yet another | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
Scottish Nationalists who have got up not said what he supports. What I | :10:06. | :10:15. | |
have been clear about, is that we will stick to the timetable which | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
gives the extra capacity that is needed by 2030. I normally try to be | :10:19. | :10:29. | |
very supportive of my friend, but I have struggled somewhat on this | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
occasion. Can he give an absolute assurance that if further work on | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
air quality and noise were to go against Heathrow, that the default | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
position will be to accept Gatwick and not waste more years by setting | :10:45. | :10:53. | |
of yet another commission? If my Honorable friend looks at my | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
statement, I made quite clear that the government assisted three | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
options that have been performed by the commission, are the right | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
options as far for body -- capacity is concerned. The answer to this | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
question is yes I do except that. I do not fully answer all the other | :11:13. | :11:21. | |
questions from the S member. -- S Garbean there will be done by | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
the Department for Transport. -- they were. But that we all except | :11:29. | :11:35. | |
that the Secretary of State is right to say that this is a national | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
infrastructure project that affects runway capacities throughout the | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
country and aviation capacity throughout the country. And we have | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
the opportunity, will he commit to meeting with those regional | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
airports? He has not included East Midlands and his response so if he | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
can squeeze that in as well, but wouldn't commit to meet those | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
represents, should that we plot the... Will forget the extra | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
capacity in the shop is? I did I mention every airport in the | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
country, but I did try to -- did not. I did talk about Manchester, | :12:13. | :12:22. | |
Newcastle, Edinburgh, Birmingham. Glasgow to. I did not mention East | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
Midlands, which is just down the road from where I am, but when I | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
like to see what services from them? The answer is yes. -- what I like. I | :12:32. | :12:39. | |
welcomed the decision to delay the statement. Are collies are in | :12:40. | :12:48. | |
negotiations with the child was coming into Heathrow over the | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
valley. What he agreed with me that the resolution of these issues is | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
crucial to our future support that Heathrow? Sunday my Honorable friend | :12:56. | :13:03. | |
that's a good point about the fact that aviation, capacity does not | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
necessarily a threat the areas that are not most of all. To have a wider | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
impact around the rest of economy and country. In light of the Paris | :13:13. | :13:20. | |
conference to we just had a statement on, what recent | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
discussions has he had with the Secretary of State for climate | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
change and the committee on climate change about how important that the | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
will affect the UK's ability to meet its reduction targets? As one of the | :13:32. | :13:40. | |
people who served on the commission,... With did try to | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
methods into account that Davis commission. Obviously, a system that | :13:48. | :13:55. | |
has been for the development. The BW scandal. We should does our response | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
on new information that will become available. -- the judge. That is | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
something that I want to see addressed. I still believe we can't | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
deliver on the timetable set out in the commission's report of 2030. | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
Does he agree with me that this decision original airports, which I | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
recently visited. -- original airports. We may even see a second | :14:28. | :14:34. | |
runway and Brengle in the future, as well as a just the two of? -- the | :14:35. | :14:42. | |
Birmingham. She never misses an opportunity to. Don't think I'll be | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
promoting them at the whole thing I will disagree with her arm, is a | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
downward work without the airports, Birmingham, Newcastle, East | :14:56. | :14:57. | |
Midlands, Glasgow at regional airports. -- as. Cannot think of the | :14:58. | :15:05. | |
government the government will not outsource these issues to other | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
committees, and will not be rushed into making a decision about a | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
planned weight that will not be operational until 2030? Can he | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
confirm that is a third runway is to consider, it will only be considered | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
with the three caveats that faith is placed on it in terms of a fourth | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
runway, night flights, and meeting EQ quality limits? At whatever | :15:27. | :15:34. | |
decision is taken, as I say there are still three options that are | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
being discussed. We must get the best mitigation bills out for the | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
people affected by those by possible. But the point that he said | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
would be very important consideration for any decision which | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
is taken. If the decision should be Heathrow, there are three options we | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
are looking at. Consistently that the government has to position. | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
Either we have accepted the Davis commission, subject to certain out | :16:08. | :16:16. | |
these environmental issues. Core, we have now we have 3-D glasses, have | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
looking at all three from scratch. Which of the two are going to go | :16:20. | :16:28. | |
quiz yellow. We have accepted Davis as far as the fact that the reaction | :16:29. | :16:37. | |
that we are looking for. Another Davis commission supported one in | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
particular, but the government has had to look at all three of the | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
options available. And hit the pins, given that we have not built a full | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
runway in the southeast of England since 1946, -- and defenses copy of | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
one of the Secretary of State does make the decision and summer of | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
2016, when he comes to make the decision was made in the interest of | :17:03. | :17:04. | |
the whole country, including the night and half would to residents of | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
the Midlands, who he and I represent and not just the denizens of West | :17:10. | :17:21. | |
London? I think if one looks at the record of this government, we have | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
always acted in the national answer. We have done as far after capacity | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
on the rower roads, and going as far but is it for concerned. But they | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
are always controversial and it is right in this day and age that would | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
take every measure that we can to mitigate the environment and impacts | :17:40. | :17:46. | |
of any decisions that we make. Top prospects in the Southwest and in | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
the rest of the country outside of the southeast would be in my view | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
very best enhanced by an expansion at Heathrow. Plan is to be legally | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
secure. Does my friend agreed that sometimes, it could be best to | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
actually have a very thorough look at this and add a stitch in time in | :18:05. | :18:12. | |
this case might save... Up in one of the things that I have learned | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
taking through some of the bigger infrastructure projects, which I've | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
been responsible for, it is absolutely bright incorrect to make | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
sure all possible work and challenges that you are facing on | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
whatever decision you take it that we can prove that we have done the | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
right amount of work and perforation for decisions that we are going to | :18:35. | :18:42. | |
put before the House in due course. What drives air quality is car | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
emissions. -- the drives Heathrow has far more rapid transport, | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
including for rail links. Gatwick has one, was the Secretary of State | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
is aware is not the best in the country. Will he please give us an | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
assurance that any analysis of air quality, able understand will be | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
taken that will result in the bass interest of passengers if Gatwick | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
were to get the option. But also for the employees required that employed | :19:12. | :19:19. | |
a Gatwick, none of them locally. Of a bill off was that the be put | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
forward and addressed in the work that we're going to do this over the | :19:23. | :19:31. | |
coming months. A lot of this work has been covered by a Davis, but | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
there is to a lot more to be done. I think my friend is right to show his | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
concern. And to also point out that there is actually no easy or | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
straightforward answer as far as aviation capacity is concerned, but | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
also accepting that for this country aviation is a very important | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
industry, which employs many, thousands of people right across the | :19:56. | :20:03. | |
supply chain. On that basis, I hope my friend will accept my insurance | :20:04. | :20:14. | |
is. -- assurances. I think you are in the chair when the member accused | :20:15. | :20:24. | |
my Honorable friend, the Member for Richmond Park, who has sat quietly | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
and respectfully throughout this exchange, not being in his place. | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
Although my friend for Bridgeman is completely wrong on that everything | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
could do with runways, it is extremely unfair for his | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
constituents and his future supporters in the mayoral elections | :20:46. | :20:47. | |
that they should think he was not here for the whole of the time. I | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
thank the gentleman for that point of order. Also hot that it was very | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
clear from the response from the government benches that he was here | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
have been here throughout. I think even at the time that that point was | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
made, and he has made it once again and is now firmly on the record. | :21:09. | :21:16. | |
Further to the point of order. I'll would like to point out that at the | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
point the Secretary of State started his statement, the Honorable member | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
for Richmond Park was not in his place. That is also on the record. I | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
was not the chair when that happened. It was with complete over | :21:30. | :21:37. | |
that I've read in the papers disagreed allegations that a British | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
official was present in January 2002 or am I was tortured. For the | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
officials apprised at the Baghdad air base on the same plan of then | :21:48. | :21:54. | |
Prime Minister. -- surprise. Such serious activation of a government | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
being complicit in torture, not only brings... But causes great concern | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
around the UK Government's record of upholding the Universal declaration | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
of human rights and honouring historic values and the bride to a | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
fair trial. I am looking forward to the government to make and are just | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
a bit of this and call the Prime Minister to honour his word from | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
2010 when he said the public confidence, party and parliament is | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
right judge led inquiry. He added that is what we need to need to get | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
to the bottom of the case, the fact that it is led by a judge will help | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
assure that we get it done properly. I thank her for her point of order | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
and also for the noticed that she had given the chair for the point of | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
order. Not a method for the chair, but as you can see a Foreign Office | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
minister is off the bench and will have heard what she has said that | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
I'm sure will respond in due course. There are no more points of order, | :22:50. | :23:01. | |
will not regard as of the date. -- orders of the day. Order! | :23:02. | :23:23. | |
Order! . We will begin with clause one, which will be completed to | :23:24. | :23:32. | |
debate class to study the question is back clause one stand part of the | :23:33. | :23:40. | |
bill. For approval by Parliament for two draft legislative measures as | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
required under section eight of the EQ act 2011. Such approval is needed | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
because both measures are made under Article 352 of the Treaty on the | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
function of the European Union. By section eight of the act does | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
provide for exceptions in order to avoid the requirement of an act of | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
Parliament, the measures had to that full fastball without any of the | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
exempt purposes. Clocked at two turtle instead of the bill, is | :24:11. | :24:17. | |
commencement date and short title. Subsection one of clause two | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
provides that the bill to extend to the whole of the UK, subjection to | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
provide that the bill will, to fall task force on that day. Subsection | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
three provide to the build's short title. I beg to move that clause one | :24:31. | :24:37. | |
and class to stand part of the bill. -- clause to. The question is that | :24:38. | :24:49. | |
clause one stand part to the. I think the eyes back haven't. The | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
question is that class to stand part of the bill. The contrary, no. I | :24:55. | :25:06. | |
think the ayes haven't. I do not report the bill to the house without | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
the amendment. -- now. The ayes haven't. | :25:13. | :25:20. | |
The committee has gone through the bill and reports the same with that | :25:21. | :25:51. | |
amendment. The question is that the bill now be read a third time. I beg | :25:52. | :25:59. | |
to move that the bill now be read a third time. I think the brief | :26:00. | :26:08. | |
explanation that... At the beginning of this session covered the points | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
that needed to be made about this very short bill and the purpose and | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
reason as to why they are required. A second reading stage, we covered | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
some points raised in the session, but I think it is fair to say that | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
this bill and debate have covered the two clauses sufficiently. I | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
think it is worth reflecting that the bill before us forms part of the | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
ability of parliament examine and give it the light give advice and | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
clearance of protection and oversight of the European Union act | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
that it affords us. Bills such as this give another layer of | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
protection with the European union legislation... I will give way. I am | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
grateful Madam Deputy Speaker because as my right honourable | :27:01. | :27:07. | |
friend likely says, the only point of concern about this bill is why it | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
is that such trivial matters are being dealt with by way of an act of | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
Parliament. Would my right honourable friend agree with me that | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
while these might be trivial matters, the public might be | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
concerned that they are being dealt with by Parliament, the public | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
should be equally concerned that such major matters such as the | :27:31. | :27:38. | |
turkey re-installment in the European Union will go through the | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
same installment. I thank my honourable friend for his remarks. I | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
think it is right to say that when it comes to debating and discussing | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
matters of this nature, I would not quite use the same terms that my | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
honourable friend has used, trivial, much as this and other assets of the | :27:56. | :28:03. | |
European Union. As he has pointed out, the exception of Turkey which | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
will have debate and at the same time there will be engagement with | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
the European committee and other debates will take place in this | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
house, I am delighted to see the chair of the committee in his place | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
this afternoon as well. I think it is important for me to emphasise two | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
points in particular. I want to go back to the second reading point as | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
well. I was clear when we had a second reading that obviously there | :28:32. | :28:33. | |
were concerns about what this legislation meant, what the cost of | :28:34. | :28:40. | |
the taxpayer will be, I emphasise that there are no burdens and costs. | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
Administrative costs or extra cost to the taxpayer but I think it is | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
important to say that when reading this bill -- bringing this bill to | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
the House, a covers two clauses, these clauses relates to DTS S and | :28:54. | :29:06. | |
the other relates in particular to the Republic of Macedonia as a | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
observer in the work of the EU funding rights agencies and on that | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
basis these are two very straightforward causes and are part | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
of a very straightforward bill. I commend this bill to the House. I | :29:20. | :29:28. | |
must admit, I find myself called to the dispatch box today. We are here | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
to debate to matters, the first is whether a new position should be | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
established within the organisation in the name of the former Yugoslavia | :29:41. | :29:46. | |
and Association Council, establishing this new position I | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
understand in some way facilitates the admission of Macedonia to the | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
European Union agency for fundamental rights as an observer. | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
The second point of this bill... I think that is why I am here. There | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
appears to be a need for me to update the formal basis, recognising | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
the fact that its function now relates to "The gender from -- the | :30:14. | :30:23. | |
agenda for growth". Can the Minister held me and is this really so. If so | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
the substance of this bill is almost the definition of bureaucratic my | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
new shop. While it is my understanding that both of these | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
relate to the draft of the European Council which need to be approved by | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
each member of the state as well as Parliament, I do find the use of | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
this quite extraordinary. Particularly at a time when the | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
government is hacking away at the social safety net via second | :30:51. | :30:57. | |
legislation it is a uphill struggle to get ministers to agree to even a | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
short debate in the core door. It does not appear that the government | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
in my view has this right. Anyway, here we are. I will use the time we | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
have to be free recap these proposals. Which I do not expect to | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
be the subject of raging controversy in this debate. The first part of | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
the bill as we have heard relates to the omission of Macedonia as an | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
observer at the European Union agency for fundamental rights. This | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
follows a report from the European commission which was published | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
earlier this year and set out a number of recommendations to revive | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
Macedonia's stalled candidacy for access to the EU. My honourable | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
friend will be aware that the Greeks... Maybe she might use the | :31:43. | :31:51. | |
full name to not upset our Greek colleagues? The honourable gentleman | :31:52. | :31:58. | |
is right and I apologise and hope that the council will get it right | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
even if I do not. This process was initiated in 2005 and has been put | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
on hold as a result of widespread concerns more recently over the | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
country's deteriorating record on human rights. The admission of the | :32:11. | :32:18. | |
former Republic of Yugoslavia known as Macedonia to the EU's agenda for | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
fundamental rights as an observer was one of the number of | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
recommendations made in the European commission's recent report. As | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
explained in the debate on second reading, it is hoped that" | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
observers... And assistance on fundamental rights, issues, to help | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
tackle its reform challenges and provide assistance and help to the | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
country on human rights issues." I have to say that at the rate this | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
government is going, with them removing the requirement to respect | :32:55. | :32:56. | |
international law for ministerial code and pressing ahead with their | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
plans to repeal the Human Rights Act, perhaps a theatre of colleagues | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
up to join a Macedonia delegation and learn a few lessons. ... For | :33:06. | :33:14. | |
growth and employment. Bills note described as the... European | :33:15. | :33:24. | |
commission and the Council to enable high-level discussion between the | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
three parties of social aspects of the European agenda for jobs. Beyond | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
these exceptionally vague generalities, further details of the | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
summits roles are surprisingly hard to come by. Nevertheless, any | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
discussion of jobs and growth is hardly objectionable and certainly | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
not objection by me. In fact, should the representatives of the UK take | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
part in any upcoming meetings, it might provide an ideal opportunity | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
for ministers take on board some the valuable lessons our European | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
friends have to offer in terms of jobs and growth. At a time when our | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
jobs market is not the envy of the entire continent, the government | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
should welcome such change. We have a high proportion of graduates doing | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
jobs that they are overqualified for, 59% in any other country in the | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
European Union, apart from Estonia and another country. We have a | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
higher rate of underemployment where a 10th of our entire workforce worse | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
life than they want to, lower than any other European Union country | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
other than a couple of them. This appears to be getting worse. In most | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
recent employment figures from the oh in S show that even a number of | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
people working in the UK has risen, the total number of hours worked by | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
the UK have actually fallen. Perhaps a European counterpart could teach | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
us a thing or two. We do not intend to oppose this bill and I welcome | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
it. As least as far as a ghost. Because it offers us some reminder | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
that of the things that we have to be grateful for, not least the | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
protection of fundamental rights and freedoms, including some of the most | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
basic rights of the workplace which many of us take for granted but | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
would not be there without the European Union. At a time where the | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
government is undermining these rights, particularly in the trade | :35:15. | :35:16. | |
union bill, we should welcome the opportunity that this debate | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
provides to remember the positive role of the EU can play in our | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
lives, particularly when it comes to protecting dignity in the workplace. | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
It is disappointing that the government does not seem to share | :35:29. | :35:37. | |
these values. I am sure members from across the House will be delighted | :35:38. | :35:39. | |
to hear the SNP will be supporting this bill today. They will be more | :35:40. | :35:47. | |
delighted to hear that I am making my comments as brief as possible. | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
The most popular thing I think I has said as a right dock regular member. | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
Stanton has been a great success and it is good to see our friends and | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
colleagues across the European Union working more closely together, | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
particularly pleased to see Macedonia joined the EU agency as an | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
observer. It is particularly helpful to them as we'd deal with the | :36:10. | :36:12. | |
refugee crisis and I hope they will get some benefit from that will stop | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
it is also a reminder of those countries that have the biggest | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
burden they have to deal with in terms of the refugee crisis that | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
they can certainly do more. On the second point, we wholeheartedly | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
support any dialogue between the EU institution employers and worker | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
representatives. And through the apartheid... We need to remain part | :36:35. | :36:43. | |
of the European Union, benefits of remaining a part of the European | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
Union as money members will agree and we moved to support this bill | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
today. It seems this is going to go through without too much | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
controversy, but I think it is worthy of commenting on on the state | :36:59. | :37:01. | |
of employment across the whole of the European Union including Ukraine | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
as we ring attentive to our own problems. I remember Britain before | :37:08. | :37:14. | |
some of you were born. We headed biggest investors in history. The | :37:15. | :37:22. | |
bill seeks approval for members to be made France additional made that. | :37:23. | :37:33. | |
The TSS organisation is meant to discuss increasing the employment | :37:34. | :37:40. | |
rates, investing 3% of GDP and development and reducing... These | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
are worthy things. But they are living in a dream world if they | :37:48. | :37:49. | |
think it is doing anything economically. There is an credible | :37:50. | :37:58. | |
risk of unemployment. Widget that was repeated in Britain, we would | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
have four and a half unemployed not 1.8 as thereby says at the moment. | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
It is in a bad way and indeed some the larger companies are quietly | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
suffering, particularly France. People in France are fighting and | :38:14. | :38:20. | |
are nervous about their futures. But if we think everything is fine and | :38:21. | :38:31. | |
dandy, I think it is just... If people in the European Union believe | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
that to be the case, I think they are living in this dream world. The | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
reality is that the EU is failing, Greece, Italy, France as I | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
mentioned, but also Finland has very serious problems. Problems of | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
printing billions of euros to try and stop their country from seeking. | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
So their are serious economic problems inside the euro zone and | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
the European Union. The only way they are going to get the growth | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
we're talking about is for them to be able to regard their economies on | :39:07. | :39:14. | |
a national basis, the value of their currency in relation to other | :39:15. | :39:16. | |
currencies and their interest rates and indeed there own fiscal policies | :39:17. | :39:24. | |
as well. When they can do that, when they can regroup behind their own | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
barriers, then we should see Europe as a colony growing again and see | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
millions of people who have been out of work from a long time to back | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
into work. It is an innocuous bill, some the points it is covering, jobs | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
and growth, I think we ought to just focus on those occasionally to show | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
how badly that they are. When I was a young person, everyone had a job, | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
we had full employment. We had a Labour shortage, we have living | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
centres like we have not seen before. Or since then it has gone | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
rapidly wrong and as I said more crises are to come, more serious | :40:09. | :40:16. | |
crisis are to come. I think the European Union has been economically | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
growth and stability in jobs I think growth and stability in jobs I think | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
they are living in this dreamworld. The question is that the bill not be | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
read a third time, as many of that opinion say I on the contrary say | :40:30. | :40:37. | |
no. Motion number two on relocation of migrants for international | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
protection opt in decision, Minister to move. Thank you Madam Deputy | :40:42. | :40:49. | |
Speaker. This motion covers a series of EU proposals on the relocation of | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
migrants within the EU. These proposals or an essential response | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
to the ongoing migration conserves... And indeed have been | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
summoned to previous debates in this house. The current migration can't | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
do my crisis has been described as the worst refugee crisis since World | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
War II are thought to. As does the ability of the Member States to | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
provide a comprehensive and sustainable response, one which is | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
both able to support those Member States under most pressure and | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
ensure protections are provided for those in real need of it. This has | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
been a competent fast-moving situation, proposals have been | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
adopted extremely quickly and ministers have met him almost weekly | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
basis. As soon as proposals were adopted they were almost superseded | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
by others. Since the crisis began, the government has been very clear | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
on our views of relocation, it is the wrong response. It is absolutely | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
nothing to adjust the underlying causes of the crisis, it does | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
nothing more than move the problem around Europe. Relocation also... | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
Process applications and Process applications and | :42:00. | :42:01. | |
strengthening borders. It encourages more migrants to travel illegally | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
into the EU. We must ensure the relocation proposal does not reduce | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
the opposition on all Member States to have a functioning border and | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
asylum systems. We have stated that the UK will not alter measures | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
whether temporary or permanent. I apologise to the House that on these | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
relocation measures we have had to override scrutiny. The commission | :42:24. | :42:30. | |
broke the Mike brought forward... The trimester and home secretary | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
were required to make the government views on such measures clear and | :42:35. | :42:37. | |
hastily arranged EU Council meetings. The debate on relocation | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
continue within the EU, only a tiny number of people have been relocated | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
under the agreed temporary measures and many Member States are now | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
stepping back on commitments they have previously made and the concern | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
is growing on the merits of the permanent mechanism. I will give | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
way. I am grateful to my friend for giving way, does my honourable | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
friend agreed with the position of Slovakia who believe this decision | :43:05. | :43:13. | |
should have been taken by unanimously. We are not party to | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
these arrangements in using our opt out but I think my honourable friend | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
of easily does highlight some of the issues that have been risen since | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
the mid-measures were put into place. Indeed, I am aware that to | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
like in Hungary have filed challenges in the Court of Justice | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
against the relocation scheme. I think that there are those kinds can | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
-- those concerns that these proposals are geared bike | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
ill-conceived. Using them as a tool ill-conceived. Using them as a tool | :43:45. | :43:52. | |
to manage the crisis I give way. Could he explain under this scheme | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
that was agreed, if a migrant is allocated to a given country to | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
settle but then this could stomach decides to live in another EU | :44:02. | :44:04. | |
country, what is stopping them from moving? And issue my friend has | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
highlighted is an issue that we remain conscious of, what might be | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
described as secondary movement. There is secondary movement within | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
the Schengen area, but we maintain our own border controls and visa | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
requirements and therefore is within the Schengen area that that may | :44:25. | :44:26. | |
operate but I think there are those practical issues that have been | :44:27. | :44:29. | |
highlighted in terms of the operation of the scheme and indeed | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
to date I think it is only 160 people have been relocated under | :44:35. | :44:46. | |
these measures the sparse. Bar. We continue to make the case that this | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
is not just an EU problem, it is an international issue which needs | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
action from a whole range of parties. I am grateful to you for | :44:57. | :45:03. | |
giving way, is the problem on secondary movement that once they | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
become citizens of the EU state, the free movement of people means they | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
are entitled to get anywhere and under our law, asylum seekers get in | :45:11. | :45:18. | |
the queue. I think my honourable friend makes an important point in | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
respect of the citizenship stopping he will equally know that there are | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
certain things we have adopted in relation to the character | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
requirements and other steps that we take to assure ourselves in respect | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
of those who may be granted citizenship will stop at a something | :45:37. | :45:39. | |
that is conducted over a number of years before somebody would be so | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
entitled, therefore it is not a symptomatic and underlines the point | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
that I made which means we maintain our own border requirements and | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
adhere to that very clearly for those who are not EU citizens. No | :45:54. | :46:02. | |
problem, one of the refugees do not want to go to the countries which | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
they have been allocated? If they are put and forcibly sent to | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
countries they do not like or want to go to, that certainly has echoes | :46:10. | :46:18. | |
of uncomfortable... I think he makes an honourable point on the operation | :46:19. | :46:20. | |
of the scheme, that is something that has been a practical issue that | :46:21. | :46:27. | |
EU Member States who are party to this have found. In terms of | :46:28. | :46:29. | |
actually working with the migrants who have displayed an unwillingness | :46:30. | :46:37. | |
to participate in terms of some of the relocation arrangements, | :46:38. | :46:39. | |
contemplated by the measures subject to the debate this evening, | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
therefore some of those practical issues that are having to be | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
confronted. The situation in relation to the migration conscious | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
my crisis is causally changing and requires a flexible response. Our | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
approach has been designed to route diaper tag UK interest while making | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
eight countries and to those in need and addressing the unprecedented | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
challenges faced by partners. This is not proving to be successful. | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
Time would be better spent on measures that would make a real | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
difference, we must secure the border and provide protection to | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
those who need it and return to those who do not. That is where the | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
focus of this government will remain and I trust the House will be | :47:19. | :47:26. | |
mindful and support the notion. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
glad we got the opportunity to debate this important issue today. | :47:30. | :47:36. | |
Clinical unrest and widespread violations of human rights have led | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
to millions of people being displaced. The UNHCR are saying | :47:40. | :47:47. | |
there are millions of Syrian refugees alone and as the Minister | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
said, the worst humanitarian crisis in Europe since the Second World War | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
ended as the most important issue facing the EU. Over the last nine | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
months, the EU have seen unprecedented levels of migration, | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
with over 812,000 asylum seekers in the EU up to the end of September | :48:07. | :48:12. | |
and the UNHCR are saying there are over 3000 the bulk tragically dead | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
or missing from attempting crossings of the Mediterranean. The vast | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
majority of the pressures of these incoming migrants has fallen on | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
Italy and Greece with 99.5% of migrants crossing the Mediterranean, | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
arriving in these two countries and that is the background to the EU | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
proposed programme of relocation within the UK. Britain has rightly | :48:39. | :48:45. | |
had an opt out in relation to migration matters and has decided | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
not to opt back in on these measures. While we support that | :48:50. | :48:58. | |
decision, it is disappointing that it has taken over six months of | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
repeated prompting by the scrutiny committee to secure this debate on | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
the floor of the House. We of course recognise that there are often | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
fast-moving situations that the government should not be | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
constrained, but we do think the government should reflect on the | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
approach it has taken so far as the procedure is concerned. Let me turn | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
to the substance, why we do not want to see Britain opt in to mandatory | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
quotas, we do believe that we should still take an active role in | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
tackling the migration crisis across the EU as well as on our doorstep. | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
Here we take issue with the government's response. Just as we | :49:41. | :49:47. | |
have joint military operations to play our part in tackling Isis, so | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
we have a moral responsibility to work with EU states to help deal | :49:53. | :49:58. | |
with the large number of refugees fleeing the barbaric conditions in | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
Syria elsewhere. The government has of course pledged to accept 20,000 | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
refugees over the course of this Parliament, 4000 refugees a year. | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
Labour calling the government to Labour calling the government to | :50:13. | :50:15. | |
take action, this is undoubtedly a welcome step by the House. | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
Government is still refusing to accept people in desperate need from | :50:22. | :50:29. | |
other EU states. I would say the other 4000 refugees represents less | :50:30. | :50:36. | |
than half of the refugees entering this year. That is not good enough. | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
The UK has a proud history of offering sanctuary to those in need | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
responsibilities. I give way. Could responsibilities. I give way. Could | :50:46. | :50:53. | |
he explain how many things we ought to take and what are the criteria of | :50:54. | :51:01. | |
that? I am grateful for that. The position we adopt is that mandatory | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
quotas are not the way forward, any numbers taken in this country should | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
be only on a voluntary basis. Our view is that in light of the failing | :51:14. | :51:21. | |
of the policy, the government ought to read think on a voluntary basis | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
whether we should take some numbers from Europe. -- rethink. It would be | :51:27. | :51:33. | |
up to the government to decide what numbers, it was on a voluntary | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
basis, it would be the right number. I think it has been suggested that | :51:38. | :51:46. | |
if every city or county in Britain took ten families, we would be able | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
to take perhaps 10,000 individuals. As I said in the first instance, we | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
call on the government to reconsider its approach in light of the | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
prevailing situation. It goes without saying, I should add, that | :52:01. | :52:07. | |
under any scheme, a voluntary scheme in particular. There should be a | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
robust vetting procedure wherever procedures take place. Therefore we | :52:13. | :52:20. | |
call on the government to reconsider the refusal to take people relocated | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
from other Member States on a voluntary basis without opting in to | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
a mandatory system. And even if we are not part of the mandatory | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
relocation scheme, we should be doing everything within our part | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
power to ensure it is working effectively. The EU relocation | :52:41. | :52:47. | |
scheme so far has relocated 130 individuals from Italy and from | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
Greece of its intended 160,000 people. Which seems to us to | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
indicate that it may be incapable of successfully dealing with the | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
pressures being faced by Italy and Greece. In addition to that, only | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
six of the 22 Member States have notified the EU that they have the | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
capacity to host relocated individuals. We do ask what steps, | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
if any, the government is taking to re-support -- support the | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
relocation. We do raise a point that has been raised on more than one | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
occasion by the scrutiny committee, it is this. Absent voluntary | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
relocation, how does the government interpreted the principle of | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
solidarity and fair sharing of responsibility in the EU? I turn to | :53:38. | :53:45. | |
the questions that we have in relation to this motion which we | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
support. Firstly could the Minister of Digby House on the number of | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
Syrian refugees that have arrived in Britain since the Prime Minister | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
announced that we will be taking 20,000 over the course of this | :53:58. | :54:05. | |
Parliament? In addition, the home office has stated that there are 55 | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
local authorities that will be welcoming Syria refugees before | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
Christmas. Could the Minister provide the House with an update of | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
how many of those authorities have so far welcomed refugees? Thirdly, | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
the government says they are reluctant to take migrants relocated | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
within the EU for fear of creating new poll factors, and this produced | :54:30. | :54:34. | |
little evidence that this would be the result of allowing internal | :54:35. | :54:43. | |
relocation. As the European said scrutiny committee has observed, | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
there has been no substance on this issue and on the pull factor | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
argument. Surely we must recognise the desperation that is forcing | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
people to leave their homes, journey to the EU in the knowledge that | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
their loved months might not make it, is going to be a significant | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
factor, no matter the programme put in place. -- loved ones. I wonder if | :55:09. | :55:16. | |
the shadow Minister could assist us by explaining how many people leave | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
Syria and how me people come into greased and why is there a large | :55:22. | :55:29. | |
difference? I am not in a position to deal with the intervention, it is | :55:30. | :55:32. | |
probably better put to the Minister. What I'm can, considering myself -- | :55:33. | :55:39. | |
concerning myself with is that the government has rightly said it will | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
take refugees from outside Europe, and we support that. The question is | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
what about those who have made it into Europe? Of course, the | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
government does not want to get drawn into a mandatory relocation | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
programme within Europe, but we question why there cannot be some | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
voluntary arrangement that we could enter into to play our full part in | :56:04. | :56:10. | |
solidarity and our fair responsibility for refugees across | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
Europe. Just as we join with our other allies in defeating or trying | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
to defeat Isis, and the causes of refugees and migrants, we should | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
just play our full part in the crisis that is here in Europe, in | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
very real terms with huge numbers already in Europe desperately | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
needing relocation. And in a situation where all of the figures, | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
at this early stage it looks like the relocation programme is not | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
working as it was anticipated, as I said only 160 or so individuals have | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
been relocated in the circumstances we do ask the question why the | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
government should not the doing more. | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
To me finish what I started to return to the way it which the | :57:00. | :57:07. | |
method now comes before the House. Again, recognising that these are | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
fast-moving situations, can the Minister give an assurance that the | :57:12. | :57:14. | |
house will be properly updated at that time will be allow for proper | :57:15. | :57:21. | |
scrutiny and debate asked this revocation policy rolls out over the | :57:22. | :57:22. | |
coming weeks and months? Most grateful indeed. I had not | :57:23. | :57:40. | |
realised that the had set them. I am grateful. Had been chairman of the | :57:41. | :57:53. | |
European scrutiny committee, requested advice is to go to a | :57:54. | :57:56. | |
number of meetings, going on for about. Two in Luxembourg, one in | :57:57. | :58:03. | |
Brussels,, and when Italy's only Brussels,, and when Italy's only | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
this last week in. And I want to pay tribute to the invitation from the | :58:10. | :58:18. | |
Italian chairman of the standing committee of the Italian Parliament. | :58:19. | :58:25. | |
The two is extremely important initiative, which was to bring | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
together the chairperson of, or most of the national Wenceslaus abilities | :58:32. | :58:36. | |
and every is that we are discussing today. First of all, I'll also let | :58:37. | :58:49. | |
the referred to admitting that took place under Cossack, which is a body | :58:50. | :58:53. | |
that consists of the national chairperson of the parliamentary | :58:54. | :58:59. | |
national EU committees. Which is in fact also given a very wide remit of | :59:00. | :59:09. | |
method of the kind we are discussing today and was frankly, although it | :59:10. | :59:18. | |
is webcast and published, actually does not get in if they let the | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
attention that it really deserves. I will save why, because having been | :59:22. | :59:30. | |
on the committee for over 30 years, and having the chairperson for the | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
last five and being reelected as chairman for this Parliament, but it | :59:36. | :59:41. | |
is very important for me to say that I have never seen such an explosion | :59:42. | :59:49. | |
of anger at a meeting of Cossack and all the times that I have been | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
taking part in those meetings. The reason for it is the lack of | :59:55. | :59:59. | |
democracy that live at the heart of this proposal. -- Alize. The member | :00:00. | :00:09. | |
from Lieutenant was with me in Luxembourg, and he will bear witness | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
to the sure anger and imposition against the wishes of the individual | :00:15. | :00:22. | |
countries concerned. Go about five and all from Central and eastern | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
Europe, who were absolutely furious at the way in which they've were | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
having these mandatory controls imposed upon them. It does raise a | :00:30. | :00:40. | |
fundamental question of insensitivity, tense sensitivity, to | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
the people who live in this country. The way which the issues in the | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
debate were discussed in the upper Rashomon, verified atmosphere of the | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
EU and this institutional framework, there is almost no relationship to | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
what is going on on the ground in regards to the voters themselves. | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
With his national chairman coming together at this meeting, they | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
expressed themselves and very clear language. This to me, apart from all | :01:10. | :01:18. | |
the other things going on the referendum, our complaints about the | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
single currency, the whole question of the straitjacket of the further | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
political integration in the compression chamber, which I've been | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
referred to since I led the rebellion on the to do back in 1990, | :01:37. | :01:44. | |
to the compression chamber that was building up. What has happened is | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
that this is an example of that very compression chamber which is now | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
exploding and was made clear in the coal sector meetings. It was | :01:57. | :01:58. | |
replicated yet again in the discussions that we had this last | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
weekend on the Schengen agreement. I know that we are not members of the | :02:06. | :02:17. | |
change in aggregate, I was with him and Luxembourg. What he suggests, | :02:18. | :02:25. | |
what he agreed that this is to be some intimidation of smaller, less | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
economically powerful patients being somewhat intimidated by the larger | :02:30. | :02:38. | |
nations at that meeting? Culture to the point, the motion before before | :02:39. | :02:48. | |
the meeting was whether or not the 27 -- 28 member states of repair, | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
excluding ourselves and our lives, but actually welcomed the proposals | :02:53. | :03:01. | |
that were sent out of the motion. The five countries concerned, the | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, having bolted as the Minister said, | :03:07. | :03:19. | |
how to read, -- Hungary. These countries were being told | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
effectively that they should go a long with his mandatory abridgments. | :03:24. | :03:31. | |
In respect to the parliament... Parliamentary resentments of it and | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
that votes against the. And applications to the courts of | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
Justice. They were effectively being told that they were from and that | :03:40. | :03:47. | |
when they simply said that the motion should take note of the | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
relocation proposals, which was overgenerous of them, but they were | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
giving to accept the notion that they should welcome this. That is | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
what led to the explosion in the debate going on. Going on for over | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
four hours about that very question. It must not be underestimated. This | :04:09. | :04:25. | |
is not something... This is about average number a total democracy in | :04:26. | :04:34. | |
the EU, and posing by a mandatory abridgments, a settlement on | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
countries who simply do not want to do so. It is a perfect example of | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
what I described at the compression chamber, blowing up in those | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
circumstances. That is the background to which I think we | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
should be considering this. It is not just a question of whether or | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
not we like it or not. It is a question of how the EU operates and | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
practice. Is not just on that. Look at how the Greeks were treated by | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
the Germans with regard to the whole of the austerity programme. The way | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
did the Portuguese president disregarded and ignored and refuse | :05:14. | :05:21. | |
to accept the decision of the voters by not acknowledging the new party | :05:22. | :05:29. | |
of government a few weeks ago. The list is very considerable. As far as | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
I'm concerned, that is really the basis to which this off of the | :05:35. | :05:42. | |
judge. I am delighted, but not surprised, that the government has | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
decided it would not cost them into these abridgments because to say the | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
least, that's these abridgments, I said this was some assume the other, | :05:54. | :06:01. | |
but our policy are shunted to the problem of refugees at source, is in | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
fact the best way to go about this. Not to allow these people in, but at | :06:05. | :06:12. | |
the meeting this Friday, we have the issue of why did Germany take the | :06:13. | :06:20. | |
line that it could. The answer was very much to do with their desire to | :06:21. | :06:28. | |
have more people working in the country, it was for economic region. | :06:29. | :06:36. | |
-- recent. They want to compensate for the bridge of their current | :06:37. | :06:38. | |
rapid global working age population quite some, this was done in respect | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
of the impact that is going to have by the EU. Because that is what | :06:46. | :06:55. | |
Germany wants. Angela Merkel's popularity has pummeled over the | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
last few weeks. Because she has missed justice as it might have | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
taken -- missed justice, but the point is to bring in a million | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
people into Germany, which is basically what has happened, is not | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
the end. It at the beginning of the store. Those looking people are | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
themselves going to have their own children, going to bring to families | :07:21. | :07:29. | |
over as well. The whole human rights is going to be made available to | :07:30. | :07:37. | |
them. This is an opening, but I described the other day as a | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
tsunami. On top of that, there is the question which I referred to on | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
a number of occasions on the floor before. Nobody can doubt for a | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
moment that there are a number, albeit perhaps a small number, of | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
Jihad is amongst those people who have come over. The reality is that | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
you only need a few to brief the kind of havoc that we witnessed in | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
Paris. For those that would criticise people like myself for | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
mentioning this, the fact is that it is a fact that is what is happening. | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
It is on a scale, which is unprecedented, since the Second | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
World War. Does the bimbo actually have hard evidence of the jihad is | :08:29. | :08:35. | |
arriving in the UK under the disguise of terrorist? What he also | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
agreed that some threats that the post, should we abolish the police? | :08:41. | :08:50. | |
We know it, because there are people who are declared jihadists, who have | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
been in Syria, and other parts of the Middle East. Jihad a John is a | :08:55. | :09:04. | |
very good example. These are declared jihadists who came from the | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
UK. But I was not making the point of the UK in this context am | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
although I do perceive the data that. , referring to the fact that | :09:13. | :09:20. | |
there is no doubt of those those have been to see every a and come | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
back again, to routes which enabled him to come to Paris, contribute to | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
the carnage. If people are going to dispute that, they can do that. But | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
the facts are clear. These are broad problems which have to be addressed, | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
and this is a important part of the debate. People can have different | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
views about that, but the reality is that there are real dangers and all | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
of this. The other thing I am about to say in respect to the manner in | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
which the government has dealt with this, and I want to make this | :09:56. | :10:05. | |
briefly. The opt in decision, with the scheduling of the debate, and | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
administer past their briefly over this and am a sort of apology for | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
what had happened. -- made a sort of. The fact is that scheduling a | :10:18. | :10:25. | |
debate after the government has reached a opt in decision makes a | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
mockery of the government's this task of immature but they have said, | :10:29. | :10:37. | |
which is enhanced scrutiny of its opt in decisions. And a mockery of a | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
full and transparency and accountability to Parliament. What | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
actually happened was that the government has provided no | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
explanation, even this evening, for his failure to schedule and often | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
debate during the September setting a Parliament. With the house could | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
have expressed the views of opting into the first relocation proposals, | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
or is dogged to schedule and often debate before the expiry of the opt | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
in deadline, which was on the 8th of November. Would he be more | :11:10. | :11:17. | |
sympathetic to the government if it were true that it was nearly two | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
years ago and January 2013 that European scrutiny committee | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
requested a debate on the floor of the house of the movement of people | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
and his failure to schedule a debate has been long-standing. Powerful to | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
occur for government to do better. On this occasion, they have done a | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
lot worse. The delay and scheduling the debate is inconsistent with the | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
letter in the spirit of the commitments made to Parliament by | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
the Minister for Europe. Timer to another subject, -- turning to | :11:52. | :12:04. | |
another subject, them and the ultimate apology for which the | :12:05. | :12:06. | |
minute this has been dealt with. I'm sure he give give it. Is he | :12:07. | :12:20. | |
listening to what I am saying? I'm grateful to him for allowing me to | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
make an intervention. When I gave evidence to the scrutiny committee, | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
the government has had to deal with a fast-moving situation. We are | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
sorry that it has not been possible to have database in a way in which | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
we would choose to, but I think it has been reflective of a exceptional | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
circumstances that would have been delayed with. There have been the | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
opportunities for debate and to respond to questions by which | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
statements, has been in a situation we have mistaken to respond to. Is | :12:52. | :12:59. | |
that an apology? On to know whether it in the circumstances, the | :13:00. | :13:08. | |
ministers to keep his calm, it is very important that he should | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
understand that these are matters leading to the standing orders of | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
the House of Commons on a purely personal opinions. This is something | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
that which we are very concerned about. Kosovo would he has been | :13:20. | :13:32. | |
saying. -- I support. Demanded to talk about matters of being | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
fast-moving. I think a two year debate is not a fast-moving. When a | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
dozen wanted to be, and moves very slowly the. -- in the. The remarks | :13:45. | :13:57. | |
read by my Honorable friend. The point is made. And the joint address | :13:58. | :14:04. | |
to the European Parliament on the 7th of October, the German | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
Chancellor described the Dublin roles as obsolete. The first | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
president highlighted a link between the Dublin roles and the proper | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
functioning of the Schengen free boom in every a and said, call into | :14:19. | :14:26. | |
question the free movement of people are returning to internal border | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
controls would be a tragic error. He went onto say that pretending that | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
in, which is current way of functioning, allowed us 2-faced | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
birder pressures would be another mistake. Dashboard or. It the | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
government system at risk of breaking down and can further | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
fragmentation of the shank in the free boom in every a be avoided? At | :14:51. | :14:58. | |
the meeting I had this weekend, there was an extraordinary | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
contradiction that arise for discussion. On the one hand, the | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
people who went there with her and just to be sure that we had a proper | :15:09. | :15:16. | |
border control system. But were insisting on an external border | :15:17. | :15:18. | |
system and the Minister is aware of this. The irony of the situation is | :15:19. | :15:29. | |
that just at the same time that our insisting on having a greater border | :15:30. | :15:37. | |
controls, and I have said on another note that cases that is almost more | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
barbed wire endures today than was during the the Cold War. The reality | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
is that they also want to have a complete external border system, | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
surroundings the whole of the queue. Presumably, with the exception of | :15:57. | :16:05. | |
the non-Schengen countries. Of the Minister will appreciate what is | :16:06. | :16:14. | |
building up is that under the pressure under the migrant crisis, | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
hybrid desire to to printer -- to go to further, complete border control | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
moved to political union, because of the pressure that has been exerted, | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
but at the same time wanting to have a fact of border controls. B-2s | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
things are inconsistent. I understand that the government is | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
not proposing to actually paid taxpayer monies to the purposes of | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
furthering increasing the effectiveness of context. When you | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
consider the skill of the border, the mass of every a of -- a massive | :16:53. | :17:00. | |
area of the European continent, which is supposed to be completely | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
sealed off by the external borders, the cost of doing so are going to be | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
absolutely monumental. The effectiveness has already been | :17:12. | :17:21. | |
demonstrated as being proven to have been ineffective. It does not work. | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
I doubt whether it is possible to make it work. At the same time, we | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
are getting more pressures exerted towards a deeper integration of the | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
EU to this insistence of external borders. I would like to minister to | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
tell us how it is that we will be able to have an effective system of | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
the kind that is now being proposed, with able external border for Anna | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
has Schengen, while at the same time to stay in the EU as a United | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
Kingdom. I see this as a very important moment in terms of having | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
to leave the EU. The Schengen arrangements reinforce, as | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
taxpayers, they expected to contribute to that, by the same time | :18:11. | :18:19. | |
increasing pressures to do political union seems to be a subject on which | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
we should be speaking more clearly and loudly. There are real dangers | :18:24. | :18:35. | |
and all of this. I simply think bringing in the Turkish action plan | :18:36. | :18:37. | |
into operation is making this even more intractable. There are more | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
things that could be said about that, but at this moment in time the | :18:43. | :18:50. | |
internal borders control within the Schengen free area, with the Germany | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
and several other countries, the reintroduction of border control | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
justified on the ground of public security until security, imposed | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
unilaterally without prior notice, whereas the Schengen border | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
testifies at a maximum period of two months. They are in breach that, the | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
Minister may confirm. I haven't turned the Germany is facing | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
infraction proceedings because of this. Angela Merkel is facing very | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
substantial pressures from within her own country as a result of the | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
mistakes that have been made. The reality is that this commission | :19:32. | :19:41. | |
obtained in them a which has led independent... And the risk of a | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
domino effect, were unilateral action by one as an immediate effect | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
on the security of its neighbouring countries is causing the most | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
enormous amount of pressure and a number of volcanic impressions, | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
which are going on in the countries concerned. People simply will not | :20:01. | :20:10. | |
wear it. I welcome the chance to debate this issue. Like the other | :20:11. | :20:19. | |
member, I've disappointed how long it takes to bring it to chamber. -- | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
I am. Six months at the EU commission first asked for this | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
debate, maybe even longer. Chair the committee has come through on some | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
detail of the steps the committee has had to take in order to get this | :20:38. | :20:46. | |
debate. On the 11th of December, the committee finally got an answer to | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
some of the questions. Today, six days after his two legs a chance | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
attended the government's mind that the deadline has passed. I find it | :21:02. | :21:08. | |
impossible not to contest the government's willingness to cancel | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
an entire day of business in the chamber to hold a debate that we | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
wanted to hold after the bombing of Syria stop with. How good it should | :21:16. | :21:24. | |
be doing more to help some of the millions of innocent victims of the | :21:25. | :21:36. | |
bombs that have already fallen. I wonder whether he'd like to be | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
slightly more precise with his wording. We are not bombing Syria, | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
we are bombing Daesh in Syria. I think it will be very helpful if all | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
members of the chamber would use those words so there is no | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
misunderstanding of what we bolted on. -- posted on. I did actually, | :21:54. | :22:05. | |
did make a point that people were talking about have already fled, or | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
are in the process of fleeing from the conflict that is going on. | :22:12. | :22:21. | |
Haven't taken... Who suggest that the moral responsibility of the UK | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
is even greater than it was before. -- I would. We are now part of that | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
war and bear a responsibility to help to pick up some of the | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
consequences of that war and to do whatever we can to have. The SNP | :22:35. | :22:41. | |
will can I get an entire endorsement to the government's decision to the | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
proposal. Die because we believe the proposal are perfect. But because | :22:47. | :22:56. | |
the proposals are an ill attempt to recognise that this crisis is far | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
too big for anyone or two countries to cope with. It is far too | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
important, literate life and death, to risk the chaos that would ensue | :23:11. | :23:20. | |
if 27 different countries would be. Rebar had a taste what happens when | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
individual countries unilaterally at a moments notice closed borders, | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
open the borders. Off of them to some people, and not to others. That | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
is how we end up with tens of thousands of people behind fences -- | :23:34. | :23:41. | |
Barb wire. That is what violence escalates. -- when. And a moral and | :23:42. | :23:50. | |
compassionate response to what has been rightly described as the worst | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
humanitarian crisis that we will ever witness. Kumasi as a crisis | :23:55. | :24:02. | |
about protecting the victims of war, not about a crisis of immigration | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
that has caused by the victims. Should be for the welfare of | :24:09. | :24:16. | |
millions, authorities. Millions of citizens of this planet that we | :24:17. | :24:19. | |
share a common humanity and to whom we owe a moral and legal duty to | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
protect as far as we possibly can. Haven't taken a decision to move | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
even a Paros part of that, done that in the UK, I would argue intercepted | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
a moral responsibility to help secure the features of the victims | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
of that war. And the numbers that we're speaking about truly | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
breathtaking. We know that at least for the gay people have already fled | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
Syria. Seven looked more have been displaced within their homeland. -- | :24:52. | :25:01. | |
4 million people. With the entire population of London losing | :25:02. | :25:03. | |
everything, their homes destroyed, the families... Surely these people | :25:04. | :25:12. | |
deserve the best future and the best support that we have. Given that the | :25:13. | :25:22. | |
government on the vices that the UK military action as likely to last | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
figures, this is not as a short-term problem that will be fixed with a | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
short-term solution. Not enough that the old money for emergency aid. We | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
had to be looking at massive infrastructure spending to provide | :25:36. | :25:46. | |
million to help millions of people. That are simply not credible to | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
suggest that three or four countries around the Mediterranean can be | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
expected to provide all of that by themselves, even if that is a | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
significant influx of cash from the UK and elsewhere. The Minister | :25:59. | :26:08. | |
stated, unable to identify the countries and all of the Middle East | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
that has been able to provide safety and access to the other essential | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
services for refugees. Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey. The Minister | :26:17. | :26:23. | |
declined to say despite a direct question, the Salmon refugees the | :26:24. | :26:25. | |
government thinks those countries can't realistically hold the. -- | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
can't realistically hold. I think it is around 4 million, but not to | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
again no more. Expecting a race to provide the whole infrastructures to | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
support all the refugees who have ended up there for a period of three | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
gears, is simply unrealistic. Not just about the money, will not be | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
possible for groups to produce infrastructure to look at that, to | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
house, to educate the number of desperate refugees that are already | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
trying to support. The government has his own reasons to draw the | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
lines and to encourage us to think of these men, women, and children as | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
willing economic migrants. Even suggesting some of them may be | :27:11. | :27:18. | |
terrorist in disguise. These are not voluntary migrants. Did do not have | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
volunteered to have the whole blown to pieces. That do not volunteer to | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
have that family is killed. They have refugees who are playing for | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
deadlines and the lives of the children. If they stay at home, the | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
children will die. We have a more right to health. Humanitarian crisis | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
in and around the Mediterranean shelters that that will purposely | :27:40. | :27:46. | |
applied, we should look at the refugees... Hopefuls are not fit for | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
purpose given the scale of what are experiencing now. Data designed to | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
expect one country to cope with 60,000 migrants, they are not. To | :27:55. | :28:02. | |
look after the welfare of hundreds of thousands refugees, and opinion | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
of this every few months. I think it is reasonable to expect that the | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
initial process of confirming identity security checks, | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
registrations, of refugees to take place as close as possible to where | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
the people have landed in the EU. Had to say I find is that phrase | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
demeaning. Rather than a place opportunity to show groups of the | :28:32. | :28:43. | |
kindest. The approach... Is one in principle we can support and I know | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
that the government supports a. But if it is not done properly, and | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
might as well not be done at all. For a lot of the last six months,... | :28:51. | :28:59. | |
And the fact that that is happening in this continent is something of | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
which every one of us should be utterly ashamed. Not because the | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
agencies and volunteers don't care, but because they simply don't have | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
the capacity and resources to do the past that affected the. Esalen have | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
refugees have gone through the process, they then should be held to | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
get to the destination as quickly as possible bisect means, legal means, | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
and by dignified means. These are human beings with talking about | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
something that needs to be done with the full cooperation between the | :29:32. | :29:40. | |
countries of Europe,. Paradigm, one every aware we cannot support the | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
government's recusal to be apart any of the options that have been put | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
forward. I get an impression that the government is so anxious about | :29:50. | :29:59. | |
persuading this supporters,... So important, that it would be | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
compromised on, even if it prevents us from honouring the legal and | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
moral obligations to be had to some of the most vulnerable and desperate | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
citizens. I find it astonishing that the same people who less than two | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
weeks ago work at Democrats for not showing solidarity with our allies, | :30:19. | :30:26. | |
should not be so resistant to show solidarity and supporting and | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
protecting innocent victims of war. The government is asking us to grew | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
wheat with the decision not to take part in the EU skin, we believe that | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
this decision is wrong and it was a bad decision taken for the bumpers | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
of. Tonight's but will force the government to change his mind, but | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
we believe there is a principle at stake here, which is important | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
enough that we want to put on record and believes that the UK Government | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
is failing to live up to this more obligation that for that reason we | :30:56. | :30:58. | |
will be opposing the motion letter to my. | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
I support the government's decision to exercise the opt out and am | :31:03. | :31:09. | |
pleased that the government and official opposition agree that the | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
United Kingdom should not be part of the Schengen system. Then please the | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
opposition and the government wants to exercise this opt out. As an | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
island nation with our neighbours, the Republic of Ireland, with the | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
three countries of our printable island entirely surrounded by | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
Niland, it clearly makes sense for the United Kingdom to have our own | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
border arrangements. It is fundamental to a sovereign people in | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
a sovereign parliament that one of the decisions we should be automated | :31:47. | :31:48. | |
for ourselves is who we invite in and on what terms we invite them in | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
to become citizens of our country. It is a great privilege to be a | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
citizen of our country, brings the benefits and responsibilities and | :32:00. | :32:01. | |
surely that is something that this Parliament should wish to make with | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
them government offering guidance and leadership so that we can ensure | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
that we are in control of this fundamental point. The government in | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
its answer to interventions for my right honourable friend the | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
Minister's contribution so far has indicated that even though we have | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
opted ourselves out of this particular proposal for allocating | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
refugees and other recent arrivals in the European Union under a | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
system, we are still in a position where what they do with their | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
external frontier in Shengen does matter to us, the United Kingdom. | :32:41. | :32:48. | |
All the time we remain under the view of the European Union we have | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
to accept the roles. That means that any other part of the European Union | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
accepts people in, then in due course, they will be eligible to | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
move to the United Kingdom so that we are interested directly in how | :33:01. | :33:08. | |
they'd conduct themselves and what they wish to do in terms of inviting | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
people inside. We are interested in their policy that we opted out of | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
because the British Government is nonetheless agreed to spend money | :33:18. | :33:27. | |
and resources to help police, the common exterior of the Schengen area | :33:28. | :33:30. | |
and we have resources to tackle some part of the desperate problem they | :33:31. | :33:38. | |
EU migration problem, it crisis has caused. -- then need rescuing by | :33:39. | :33:46. | |
Royal Navy and other royal contingents. Does he have any idea, | :33:47. | :33:54. | |
maybe he could invite the Minister to consider the extent to which we | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
will pay a share of the costs he just referred to because as I | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
understand it, it could be as much as ?150 million, but because of the | :34:06. | :34:12. | |
nature of the cost of providing for Schengen relocation which is getting | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
to be ever increasing, therefore presuming the amount would go up? I | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
think that is an important issue that the chairman of the scrutiny | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
committee has rightly raised. I would also like to say that I think | :34:27. | :34:37. | |
it is a disgrace that our rich and resourceful continent is facing this | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
huge crisis on the scale that we now see it, with many refugees and | :34:44. | :34:50. | |
economic migrants arriving. And the system is unable to cope with them. | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
May I ask why that is, and these people that do not wish to see these | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
people these hazardous journeys and do not feel it is decent the way | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
European policy is impacting on them and we need to influence our | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
partners in the European Union to do something better. Again, I find | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
myself in complete agreement with the government, I think the | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
government is right that the right thing to do for refugees is to work | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
with the United Nations and our partners to make sure there is a | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
safe place of refuge near to the place they have fled from in the | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
first instance, and they are, to talk to them and consider who would | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
like to come to countries in Europe and elsewhere and on what basis we | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
would admit people from those camps. That surely is the humane way to do | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
it. That obviates the need to take people on the hazardous journeys and | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
expensive journeys so that only the richest and the fittest can | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
undertake those journeys and discovered that the hazards become | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
too great and they may lose their lives and need rescuing from the | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
Mediterranean. Surely the money we are spending rescuing people would | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
be better spent on an orderly system closer to where they are fleeing | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
from and helping them get legal transport to countries of their | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
choice where they have been offered that facility. It would also mean | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
that we would make clearer and better distinctions between those | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
who are economic migrants and those who are genuine refugees. There are | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
a lot of genuine refugees from a country like Syria, different | :36:27. | :36:33. | |
considerations to how we should reply and to economic migrants | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
coming from a range of Eastern European and African countries at | :36:37. | :36:45. | |
the same time. I wonder, given the honourable gentleman's comments if | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
he had anything further to add to the unaccompanied children arriving | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
in Europe who appear to be extremely vulnerable and in need of | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
assistance? Of course, our hearts go out to them and it should not be | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
happening. It is only happening because adults have allowed it to | :37:07. | :37:13. | |
happen or have made it happen. Adults somewhere in the process have | :37:14. | :37:21. | |
persuaded the children to do it or not to do it and put them in the | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
hands of traffickers who may then been that might be very destructive | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
with their lives. The United Kingdom is quite large but we cannot get | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
into the details of all of those parents, aunts, and uncles who | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
committed these children to these hazardous journeys. There are adults | :37:40. | :37:51. | |
who should have been... Surely in the European Union with all of these | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
powerful rich countries could do a better job in coming up with some | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
orderly way of handing help and assistance in a sensible way to | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
those who are genuine refugees and are being forced out of their | :38:06. | :38:12. | |
war-torn country or area by civil wars or violence and also sending a | :38:13. | :38:15. | |
clear message to those who are economic migrants by Mike migrants | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
that there is an orderly system for that, they are not welcome at they | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
turn up as a legal, illegal migrants, they should go through a | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
proper process in the country they are coming from or in a place | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
adjacent to where they're coming from if they have already started on | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
their journey. That it would be a better way of doing it. I feel like | :38:34. | :38:41. | |
Angela Merkel for the best of reasons, because she felt very sorry | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
for these peoples for my people suggest that many of them should | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
turn up. I think it compounded the problem and far from being a caring | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
solution, it actually meant that many thousands more people committed | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
themselves to hazardous journeys only defined in the end when they | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
arrived that other countries in the European Union did not have the same | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
view as Angela Merkel, the policy was not clear, that certain borders | :39:04. | :39:10. | |
were shut in a rather unpleasant way with razor wire and high fences | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
because the net to Mike numbers were too great and cannot be handled. So, | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
I support this particular for Pozo and would urge the government to do | :39:21. | :39:22. | |
far more with our partners to try and persuade them, the EU policy is | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
letting down the refugees and migrants, letting down the Member | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
States and the inhabitants of the European Union, but it is a vital | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
interest to us, because we want the EU to have a more caring policy. But | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
also because policy is taken in other countries can't come to have a | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
direct up, impact on our our own own migration policy as a member of this | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
body as part of the freedom of movement provisions. But I do think | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
that many people watching these awful tragedies unfold on their | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
televisions, reading their newspapers and even perhaps hearing | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
some of our debates here will come to the conclusion that as an island | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
nation, we can control and should control our own borders and if we do | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
it humanely in the European Union is doing and mainly for Brent, that is | :40:21. | :40:28. | |
the best answer. I will not speak for long but I think it is important | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
to say something about this. I support my honourable friend on the | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
front bench on the behaving in a humane way towards migrants and the | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
small numbers that are currently being allowed into our country. I do | :40:47. | :40:54. | |
believe like him that we should take more of these desperate people into | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
our country from areas where they risk death on a daily basis. That is | :40:59. | :41:07. | |
the first point. Secondly, I support the government's position, I think | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
it is right that these countries should be able to have their own | :41:12. | :41:19. | |
controls, but if other countries in the European Union ought to be able | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
to control their own borders as well. Of course that is what has | :41:23. | :41:30. | |
caused the enormous row that the honourable member from the scrutiny | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
committee and member from Stone talked about. I do believe myself | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
that it is a fundamental component in democracy that people control | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
their own borders, and the people that come in their country. | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
Sometimes we do not do that but on the other hand it is fundamental | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
that borders do matter, we try to eliminate borders in pursuit of some | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
superstate which is effectively what is happening in the European Union, | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
I think it is a mistake and it will come to a sticky end in the end I | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
believe. It is possible that tensions are rising very strongly at | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
the moment. But when it comes to allocating refugees to different | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
countries, I mentioned earlier on in the intervention that they may not | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
want to go to the countries they are being allocated to. There is also, | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
if they are allocated to countries they do not want to go to, they will | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
not be made welcome and will not be cared for, may not be well treated | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
when they get there so there is another serious problem. Having a | :42:38. | :42:46. | |
much more sensible way of helping refugees go to places where they are | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
going to have some kind of welcome where they will be welcomed and | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
looked after, where they want to go, I think that would be much more | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
sensible than having an allocation policy. We can do this, but I do | :42:58. | :43:07. | |
think other countries in the European Union should take the same | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
position that we are. I think it has been a mistake, and if we want to | :43:13. | :43:19. | |
recruit people from other countries with skills we need, that is fine. | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
That can be done on a temporary or permanent basis but it should be a | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
choice, not the choice of some supernatural body, this is the rules | :43:29. | :43:35. | |
of our club. And you ought to accept those rules, I do not accept those | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
roles, and I think many people in Britain do not accept those rules. | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
There is a conflict between the need to ensure that we behave in a humane | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
way than other people, and humanitarian actions are something | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
we all admire and want to adopt ourselves. But, when you get very | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
large substantial unregulated movements of people, I'm talking | :44:03. | :44:09. | |
about large movements, this can mitigate against those rules. There | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
comes a point when people say we cannot go. Destabilising mass of | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
population movements are not good for humane behaviour. In the 19th | :44:21. | :44:26. | |
century we had vast open spaces in the United States, South America, | :44:27. | :44:32. | |
Australia, and elsewhere, and they were returning people because they | :44:33. | :44:39. | |
needed people, it was not a problem. Indeed, we recruited people | :44:40. | :44:41. | |
ourselves from Ireland in particular, from elsewhere as well. | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
We have been humane in certain immigrations, I remember when I was | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
younger in the 1960s, it was the Uganda nations were being threatened | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
very seriously threatened. We accepted them into our country and | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
indeed we have members of our own house now who are descended from | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
that population and they have made a massive conjuration to our society | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
so we have behaved well in the past, when these movements become so large | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
and they are seemingly unstoppable, I think our humanity starts to break | :45:18. | :45:27. | |
down. Humanity starts to break down, saying we cannot cope, there is a | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
desperate housing prices, and we have to be able to say... He has a | :45:32. | :45:41. | |
point but could he tell us if Dean is going destabilising anything -- | :45:42. | :45:51. | |
how could it destabilise anything? I have said that as my honourable | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
friend on the front bench is said, we should be accepting more people | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
from Syria and I think we should be doing that in doing our part in | :46:03. | :46:09. | |
helping refugees except their terrible situation. -- escape. That | :46:10. | :46:17. | |
being said, we are not going to have an open border policy where large | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
numbers of people come through, I think this causes political | :46:25. | :46:30. | |
destabilisation and I think it would not be good. In Germany where the | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
population was probably because of the birth rate, they have indeed | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
innate successful industrial company, country, ours is increasing | :46:41. | :46:48. | |
rapidly, we could rapidly overtake Germany to become the largest | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
population, largest country in population in the European Union. We | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
are in a very different situation than Germany, if we had a shortage | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
and lots of space, lots of vacant housing as well, we would be wanting | :47:03. | :47:10. | |
to recruit more people. Has he himself also heard that our own | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
population is growing exponentially and in fact, we are going up to | :47:15. | :47:21. | |
around 70 million quite soon. And that the increase is way beyond the | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
space and capacity of the United Kingdom expenditure? I do not want | :47:28. | :47:35. | |
to get into number, specifically, but our population is increasing | :47:36. | :47:38. | |
substantially, the German population is falling and other populations are | :47:39. | :47:46. | |
falling. They will no doubt want to recruit more people to make sure | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
that they have sufficient young and energetic people to make their | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
economies carry on working well. Doctors Without Borders estimates | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
that 466,000 people have arrived in the shores of lust was, their | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
population is around 86,000, and we have a responsibility to help those | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
people who cannot possibly deal with that level of new people arriving in | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
their country? I said that I agree that we should take more, we should | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
be doing more to help those refugees. And I do not think that | :48:22. | :48:29. | |
allocating in a compulsory wait to countries across the European Union | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
or indeed having a free flow of people, migrants across the | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
continent would be a sensible way. I think in the end I would -- it would | :48:40. | :48:47. | |
be an intimate way of looking after people. I think the government is | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
right in this occasion, and I hope people agree, but I think the | :48:52. | :48:59. | |
government are all together on this one. I support them. But at the same | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
time, in the longer term I think we have to look to the restoration of | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
sensible border controls within the European Union and between Member | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
States and not just breaking down those borders and illuminating them | :49:14. | :49:28. | |
and having an indefensible border. I support the government as well | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
today, there seems to be amazing levels of support which is always | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
quite dangerous but it is very refreshing that the touring National | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
Party are here in force to make sure these matters are properly debated | :49:43. | :49:48. | |
and scrutinised as being part of carried out effectively stopping the | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
reason I support this is because the European Union has made a hash of | :49:53. | :49:59. | |
it, I... Who in glorious understatement said that scheme of | :50:00. | :50:06. | |
European Union was not working as anticipated, I thought that was | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
under par where at the end of the war Japan said the board situation | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
did not develop the Japan's advantage. When you think according | :50:16. | :50:24. | |
to the Daily Express, 184 people out of 160,000 have been relocated, that | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
is a failure even by the terms of the European Union to make union. It | :50:29. | :50:36. | |
was hotly opposed by elected governments, opposed by qualified | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
majority voting, we fortunately have a thing that we used but what | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
underlies this policy is... I disagree with the honourable | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
gentleman who made a part of powerful speech about mankind in | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
general and I accept that. I think the duty to refugees is fundamental, | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
tremendously important and is something the United Kingdom has | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
done for centuries. But the question then is how do you do this well and | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
how you do it effectively and how you preserve life that you actually | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
save people. It seems to me that the European Union has made the | :51:20. | :51:21. | |
situation worse to the refugees themselves. Although the 900,000 who | :51:22. | :51:29. | |
have come by boat to the shores of the European Union over the last | :51:30. | :51:36. | |
year are in 2015, 3621 have either died or gone missing, the terrible | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
events in the Mediterranean in 2014 have gone farther to say that we | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
have not -- cannot allow the Mediterranean and to become a | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
graveyard. We have high hopes that the European... His idea that the | :51:53. | :52:00. | |
people getting into the boundaries of the European Union will get | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
citizenship, but if they cannot get that, there is nothing that will be | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
done for them. That seems to me to encourage people to to take these | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
crazy risks which have led to the tragedies so the policy of the | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
European Union itself is creating dangers for refugees and the | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
refugees who have come are not the halt in the lane but are the fittest | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
and the most able to take the risks involved in trying to cross the sea | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
to come to the European Union. So what we have seen is that 70% of the | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
refugees have come European Union are in fact men, primarily young | :52:40. | :52:46. | |
men. To set up a system that creates incentives that lead to people to | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
take foolish risks to come here in the first place, who are then not | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
the people who are most at risk, the children, elderly, and frail, but | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
they are left behind because if you are fleeing from your risky country, | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
the European union would not let. It is this government that has... I | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
think the 20,000 over five years is absolutely a step in the right | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
direction, but of course we should be doing more. We should think of | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
how many we take from the European Union under the free movement of the | :53:23. | :53:29. | |
people. In the year to March 2015 we took migrants in the European Union, | :53:30. | :53:36. | |
183,000 people who are not in risk of persecution or fear of their | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
lives, they wanted to come here for the most noble reason and honourable | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
reason, they wanted to enter the condition of themselves and their | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
families. They moved halfway across the continent to do that and that is | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
something which I admire hugely. I think it is a conservative thing to | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
do to wish to better yourself and to take that risk, it is the thing | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
entrepreneurs do. But there are economic migrants not refugees. | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
Because we take so maybe we'll from the European Union under the guise | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
of the free movement of people, when it comes to people taking that are | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
genuine risk of life, we take 4000 a year, we take 4000 a year from Syria | :54:16. | :54:23. | |
who may die if they do not escape. We take 182,000 because we believe | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
in this principle of European citizenship and anyone who wants to | :54:28. | :54:33. | |
come here is welcomed. This is not only undesirable and domestic | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
political terms, it is undesirable in moral terms because we are not | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
helping those who are most in need, we are helping those who do nine | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
fact need our help and support. We are helping those who are safe | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
rather than being generous to those who are at risk. It seems to me a | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
fundamental failing of the European Union because instead, of getting | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
aid to the refugees it encourages people to take unwarranted risks and | :55:02. | :55:04. | |
gives benefits to those who are already safe. Why do I stick to the | :55:05. | :55:11. | |
number of 183,000, what is the context of that? It is a limit to | :55:12. | :55:18. | |
the number of people than any country will take in any one year. | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
Not because freedom is a bad thing in itself, but because the society | :55:23. | :55:29. | |
to which people can move cannot operate after a certain level. There | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
are infrastructure, hospitals, but also there is not the capacity of | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
society to absorb very large numbers at one point. They need to be | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
standard, they need to come over a much longer period of time. | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
Therefore if we have these very large numbers coming from countries | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
that are safe, inevitably we have to be mean to the numbers that we | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
ourselves are able to control because they do not benefit from the | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
treaty, they do not benefit from that idea of free movement of people | :56:01. | :56:02. | |
within the European Union. Wrong. And as we in our | :56:03. | :56:16. | |
renegotiation are of people and what we are doing. All we're doing is | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
muddling about with a few benefits. They come for the noble reason, that | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
inspirational pretend that they want to make the lives and allies their | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
families better. That is why they come. With Governor Brown with that, | :56:32. | :56:39. | |
rather than thinking what the real problem is. The real problem is that | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
the skill of the immigration that comes from the EU. It is as the | :56:43. | :56:49. | |
honourable Joe took time out, having a free-for-all to this country does | :56:50. | :56:55. | |
not work for our democracy. Are both us, but did not want to. -- are | :56:56. | :57:02. | |
focus. Even asked to get this back to domestic control. Instead, they | :57:03. | :57:08. | |
do not often to one part, of many parts of things. Won't have any | :57:09. | :57:15. | |
grade that affect. The best argument that we have about the 800,000 of | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
that Mrs. Merkel is welcome in. Why will they not come here? Apparently, | :57:21. | :57:28. | |
our ambassador to Germany has reported to menaces that we do not | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
need to worry that they will compare to cut the Germans are slow at | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
processing citizenship application. Isn't that just lucky? That this low | :57:37. | :57:44. | |
German democracy, when it comes to processing citizenship applications, | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
they might take ten years. So we will not get 100,000 today or | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
tomorrow, but we will give them the election after next. That I'm afraid | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
it's what the government is failing the British people. Is opting out of | :57:56. | :58:03. | |
one thing, but has left the big major problem at the centre of our | :58:04. | :58:12. | |
difficulty. 800,000 people have settled in Germany for ten years, | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
why is it that there are suddenly going to come to the UK at the end | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
of that period with new German citizenship? The amount of | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
immigration that we have seen to this country from the EU shows that | :58:27. | :58:29. | |
we are a great magnet. Everyone seems to want to come to the UK, | :58:30. | :58:38. | |
even to the glories of Scotland. Is extraordinary. I am proud of this. I | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
love the fact that people all bribed world that the best place to live in | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
the UK of Great Britain. Is something we should fill, and give | :58:50. | :58:52. | |
us a glow of pride about the success of our nations of this post | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
conservative government that is good because peace and prosperity. Being | :58:58. | :59:06. | |
a part of the EU, have a lot reported that British citizens can | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
also go and live in Europe, and can go back and forth? I accept that. | :59:11. | :59:17. | |
The bridge and that the British go and live abroad and I welcome abroad | :59:18. | :59:23. | |
is because most of them who go abroad are mostly well-off, most of | :59:24. | :59:26. | |
the tide and take a lot of income is poorer European countries to happen | :59:27. | :59:32. | |
to have a list of more sunshine. I quite understand it is very much the | :59:33. | :59:39. | |
Florida effect that people want to go the southern European countries, | :59:40. | :59:42. | |
but they take wealth with them. Which would be welcomed even if we | :59:43. | :59:46. | |
were not members of the EU. Because poor countries always want to | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
attract rich migrants. Rich countries cannot take an unlimited | :59:51. | :59:57. | |
number of poor migrants and that is why we should focus on the most | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
needed, the real refugees of the one still in Syria. And cut back on | :00:02. | :00:10. | |
hundred 83,000 mark migrants coming from the EU. With the government | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
does that, they will deserve much more support than the support they | :00:14. | :00:21. | |
will get today. -- 183,000. Jennifer has a consequence of the route by | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
which this doctor has come today. That much of the debate has focused | :00:27. | :00:35. | |
on the constitutional aspect of the EU of some of the produce. One | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
affect the debate out of the about how we as a country respond to what | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
others have already described as being one of the remarkable and | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
unprecedented humanitarian crisis to hit hit Europe since the end of the | :00:50. | :00:58. | |
Second World War. A number of members have referred to the timing | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
of the debate tonight. I shared a concern of those who have pointed | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
out that the matter brought before the House at that time will affect, | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
the decision has already been made. Surely, there is a more human aspect | :01:15. | :01:22. | |
of the timing of this. It is that winter is coming. Those who have | :01:23. | :01:29. | |
made the journey to Europe, we've heard reference to the quite | :01:30. | :01:37. | |
remarkable numbers, are not going to suffer real hardship as a | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
consequence of that. -- now. Is also a part that the developers are | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
doing, that people are going to keep coming. We're not going to see the | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
demolition of those making the journey that we have seen in recent | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
years. -- diminish. Is why having so much to the position that the | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
government has taken. As members of the S and T opted to buy the house | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
tonight, -- SNP, the Liberal Democrats will be with them. Like | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
them, but it does the right thing to do, not some reservations I might | :02:22. | :02:29. | |
have about the nature of the ever enriched that are being debated. It | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
is most reflecting that that the share loan, 950,000 people have | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
Friday and Europe. Risking their lives in order to get his. -- | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
arrived. They do not come because they are the able once. They come | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
because they are desperate. It is surely a consequence of that | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
desperation that we should have a humanitarian response to what. The | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
response has come from Mrs. Merkel in Germany. It was not because of | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
the people coming, it was a response to these people coming. It is worth | :03:08. | :03:15. | |
considering also what the consequences of the lack of European | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
action has been. And a concerted European action to that challenge. | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
Looked at the figures for those who have had to take refugees on content | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
Europe. In Hungary, it had come from the not highest level of asylum | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
applications to being second, only behind Germany. While the UK has | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
gone from having the seventh highest level, an out set 17th when break in | :03:47. | :03:57. | |
terms of asylum applicants per head. On the Minister opened the case, he | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
did not really spend much time to be said of the Government's free to | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
make. But we know from... That they have spoken of a Poole factor of | :04:08. | :04:17. | |
them. Is a something which has been considered the Lord select | :04:18. | :04:18. | |
committee. Before considering the reasons why | :04:19. | :04:32. | |
they came to that conclusion. They say, we heard arguments that the | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
governments concerned that the proposal is a Poole factor, which | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
would encourage further migration to the EU was not supported by | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
evidence. The markets affected by the present proposal does the login | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
to nationality for which international protection is on | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
average granted and at least 75% of cases. At present, though some | :04:54. | :05:01. | |
Syria, Iraq, the situation in all of these countries is dire. Is clear | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
that the vast majority of those leaving these countries are links of | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
awards or the imminent threat of persecution. This is underlined for | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
instance by the presence of millions of Syrian refugees in camps in | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
Jordan and Lebanon. The government's of argument that relocation of | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
40,000 mu. , who have wished its illegal somehow encourage more to be | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
the countries of origin is therefore unconvincing. The bottom of the | :05:29. | :05:38. | |
expression to my Honorable friend, a somewhat masterful understatement. | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
What are the elements that could produce the safe Routes and the | :05:44. | :05:51. | |
humanitarian precipice? We need to extend the family reunion rules. | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
Need to allow more people family of the UK to come back safely. Consider | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
what actually pays to operate the rules as they exist. It means a | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
surrogate father, granted asylum in the UK would be allowed to bring his | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
wife and younger children. -- Syrian. If he had an elder | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
daughter,, she would not be able to compare and her parents wouldn't | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
would be forced with the choice of leaving her behind or seeking to | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
place mothers to bring her to the UK. In either scenario, she is left | :06:27. | :06:33. | |
at a grave risk. The priority for my friends and myself is to bring 3000 | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
unaccompanied refugees minus who have preached Europe. Do something | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
that has been the ongoing dialogue between my party and my party leader | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
and the Prime Minister. If there is an opportunity at the end of this | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
debate, we would want to hear what progress is being made on this. We | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
must as a matter as a emergency extend resettlement schemes. 20,000 | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
refugees over five years is a drop in the ocean. We can and should be | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
doing more to take those vulnerable Syrian refugees, what are now facing | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
a bitterly cold winter in the camps in Syria's neighbouring country and | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
other parts of Europe. Canada division, Liberal Democrats will be | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
BPS MP this evening. -- SNP. Was certainly had a number of important | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
ports that somewhat had strayed more widely than the specific measures in | :07:34. | :07:41. | |
relation to relocation. In some ways, we may see some of these | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
issues of rising in the debate to follow. I would underlie to the | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
house that we will continue to work with your opinion partners to | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
develop and implement sustainable and copper has a solution that will | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
allow people to little up to the their home country or in countries | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
of first asylum. And I just do, relocation should not be the | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
response in respect of the. The government has been fairly clear | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
that the UK will not take part in it and urged the EU to concentrate on | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
actions will cause is, to control illegal migration and tackle abuse, | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
not just those that... We have also been very clear that despite | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
weaknesses in the Dublin arrangement, which we agreed and Eve | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
were formed, is underlined principles remain sound with member | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
states taking full responsibility for the offence functioning of the | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
own border and asylum system. In our discussions with the EU, we have | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
been measured and constructed while promoting and defending them eat -- | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
UK interest. Our approach was busted in these Post humanitarians and on | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
the addition of solidarity, I was undermine the support that this | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
country has given to the EU asylum support of this to provide that | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
five-month support to your poll, are such a rescue operation, our defence | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
plants. To our approach in relation to the settlement and as well as the | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
assistance which has been provided. Under all that work, that measures | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
should not increase the factors that undermine the principle that title | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
should be shot in the first safe country and therefore, I urge the | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
House to support the government motion. Question is as on the order | :09:24. | :09:37. | |
paper. On the contrary. Division, clear the lobby! | :09:38. | :11:05. | |
Order! . Tellis of the ayes. -- Tellis. To look for the no. | :11:06. | :17:41. | |
Order! Order! The ayes to be right, 274. The noes to the left, 52. The | :17:42. | :20:36. | |
ayes to the bright, 274. The noes to the left, 52. The ayes have it! The | :20:37. | :20:48. | |
ayes have it! Unlock! We now come to motion number three. On your opinion | :20:49. | :20:56. | |
agenda on migrations. I have to inform the House that Mr Speaker has | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
not selected the amendment in the name of Douglas Carswell. Ministered | :21:01. | :21:11. | |
to move the motion. The debate today offers no important opportunity to | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
look at the range of measures that are being proposed the situation. | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
The first of the documents listed on the motion this evening of European | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
agenda was published on the 15th of May. Is thought to provide a | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
blueprint to adjust the situation by outlining an overview of the various | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
measures available to the EU. Is fair to say that subsequent | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
documents listed for the most part provide the detail of that | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
blueprint. The government supports many aspects of the agenda, we | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
agreed there should be good or effective joint action of returns | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
and against people smugglers. He favours further cooperation | :21:51. | :22:01. | |
with the countries as well as more effective management to the external | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
border. We have continued to press our European partners on these | :22:06. | :22:07. | |
parts, both before and since the publication of the commissions | :22:08. | :22:08. | |
communication. Who've also welcomed the proposals against smugglers. The | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
back of again profiting from the crisis of people smuggling including | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
hats the process with international partners. We support the strategic | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
priorities outlined. I wonder if he agrees with me that it method well | :22:24. | :22:33. | |
-- does not sit well with Miss Margot, should be criticising the | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
Kerry, who have done their to implement the work of reference that | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
they were required to do to secure their border, which is the European | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
border. I wonder if the has had opportunity to speak to Mrs. Merkel | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
to say that she should be supporting the Hungarians, not attacking them. | :22:54. | :23:00. | |
As he knows, we are not part of shaking, therefore the operation of | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
respect to those internal arrangements -- Schengen. As we | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
debate in the previous debate, I think what happens on the external | :23:11. | :23:12. | |
border is important and why we have sought to support context and a | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
number of its activities given the impact that potentially has on us in | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
the UK. Is also in many respects looking at that approach off because | :23:23. | :23:29. | |
of the European border, how the subsequent Council decision on the | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
EU military operation in the sub Mediterranean has been a positive | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
step and join efforts to break the business model of people smugglers. | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
One which is at the UK pop metal support. On the 7th of October, it | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
moved interface to. It was renamed... The purpose of operations | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
of various attack of the human smugglers and traffickers disrupting | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
this that this model was traced to carry explicitly and a lost another. | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
Who must not forget operation is on one part of the governments's plan. | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
Dismay, the UK has had over 9000 miles of the Mediterranean. The last | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
document listed, at been broadly welcomed by political leaders across | :24:12. | :24:18. | |
the EU and was subject of a EU Turkey summit on the 29th of | :24:19. | :24:20. | |
November. The government shares the view that plan of the sky is needed | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
to ease the burden on Turkey while providing uncontrolled migrations to | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
the EU. Turkey is a key relationship partner for the EU and as a country | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
would the UK has had close cooperation for some time. Also | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
played a pivotal role in the migration crisis. I get why. -- I | :24:38. | :24:50. | |
get why. The sequences can say that there might be summed this genuine | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
tea and oppression of Turkey in this context given the fact that there | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
are so many problems that we have seen recently have come to Turkey | :24:58. | :24:58. | |
was . I think it is important we look at | :24:59. | :25:09. | |
the action plans to provide, an overarching response to the | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
challenges that we see. At about Turkey as an active partner. That | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
means working within Turkey and alongside them. It is important to | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
recognise and support Turkey's efforts and hosting over to move | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
against Syria and refugees. Up it is important that we continue to retain | :25:27. | :25:35. | |
that focus. -- 2 million refugees. Part of an overarching package to | :25:36. | :25:37. | |
insist that the efforts that are taking place in Turkey. I do | :25:38. | :25:44. | |
underline the important measures that the Prime Minister had doubts | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
as part of our responsibilities. That the UK will reset the 20,000 of | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
the most vulnerable considering refugees over the next five years. I | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
can say for the house that we remain on track to resettle 1000 before | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
Christmas, building on a previous game. It is neither desirable to | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
meet the needs of all those internally within the UK,... That is | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
why the government place such an emphasis on supporting protection | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
within refugee breaches of origin. We have committed another 100 | :26:17. | :26:26. | |
million pounds funding. The governments consistent focus has | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
been a on a comprehensive and sustainable solution to the refugee | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
crisis. The Prime Minister continued to emphasise the need for the UK to | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
do with the crisis, not just response to its consequences. Is | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
terrific, that means working with international communities to bring | :26:42. | :26:44. | |
an end to the conflict there into the feed Daesh. The recent | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
development of a... Following talks with a positive addition. -- the | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
feed Daesh. This could be an important step towards a solution | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
history and therefore part of the long-term solution to the migration | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
crisis. In Libya, that means helping to form a government of national | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
Accord which can regain control of Libya's borders and tackling the | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
gags. And Sean can find response to Olivia, let the work demonstrating | :27:12. | :27:14. | |
only yesterday and from is imperative to support... To move to | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
improve security. As I've said, will target them is working toward a | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
comprehensive board of management, ensuring humanitarian responses to | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
those regions, while also disrupting the organised criminal networks to | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
profit from the plight of other. Constantly changing. The government | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
that he's a boss on all development so we can reshape our engagement and | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
show our expertise in a targeted way. To protect the UK by Vanessa | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
measures, assist our partners, and assure our efforts have the greatest | :27:52. | :27:58. | |
impact. Who remain committed to cooperation with our European | :27:59. | :28:00. | |
partners and pursuit of this agenda and that is what the motion tonight | :28:01. | :28:02. | |
on defence. -- underpants. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. This | :28:03. | :28:16. | |
motion covers a number of important documents, including the documenting | :28:17. | :28:23. | |
European agenda on migration and of course the EU action plan against | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
migrant smuggling. The scale of the documents is broad and their | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
ambition is commendable. The European agenda on migration for | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
example, it aims to set out a fair and robust migration policy. The | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
action plan includes wide steps on things such as people smuggling, | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
recovering assets, data gathering, and sharing information for the use | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
of military assets. We support these aims and the fact that the motion | :28:55. | :29:02. | |
calls for a coherent sustainable approach for migration or migratory | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
pressures. We support the efforts of our Royal Navy and our forces who | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
have rescued over 5577 migrants from Mediterranean so far. If the | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
ministers able to update us on that figure I would appreciate that. The | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
question is how the government is helping to deliver this approach and | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
if DU as a whole are achieving it. -- eat you. | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
The painful reality on the ground that we have seen in many parts of | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
the EU, it is clear that the coherent and sustainable approach is | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
simply not in place. These documents attempt to find an approach which | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
ensures that Europe becomes a safe haven for those fleeing atrocities | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
and persecution but also secure its borders and create conditions for | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
economic prosperity. In order for there to be a coherent and | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
sustainable solution to the migrant crisis, we must crack down on those | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
who seek to take advantage of people in their time of need ruthless | :30:12. | :30:19. | |
criminal networks organised and journeys of large numbers of | :30:20. | :30:21. | |
migrants desperate to reach the EU. They make substantial gains by | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
putting migrant lives at risk, often squeezing hundreds of migrants and | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
two small boats including small inflatable boats, schools of | :30:31. | :30:42. | |
migrants... Smugglers treat migrants as... Which they often traffic along | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
the same roots. That is why we support the current operations aimed | :30:49. | :30:55. | |
at preventing smuggling into the EU. Taking these operations provides the | :30:56. | :30:58. | |
opportunity to make an impact on the crisis. It is the government | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
acknowledges, action must also be taken to address the root causes of | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
this crisis. The root causes of the migration lie in... Which the | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
international community has been trying to address for many years, | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
Civil War, persecution, poverty and climate change all feed into | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
migration. That is why the UK must be involved in re-invigorating to | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
the manic efforts to bring peace and stability to the people of Syria | :31:31. | :31:38. | |
were people originate. -- and assisting development of the | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
countries in question. Against that background, I have a number of | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
questions which I would like to minister to clarify. First, it is | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
important that there is ongoing parliamentary scrutiny of UK | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
involvement in trafficking operations. With minister commit in | :31:56. | :32:02. | |
informing the House prior to any development on this issue, | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
particular with any movement of phase two to phase three of this. | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
There's also some contradiction regarding the current state | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
operation. The initial plan stated that phase three involved the | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
disposing of vehicles and vessels used for trafficking. But the | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
government has said that 40 migrant boats have already been disposed of | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
as part of phase two. Can the Minister explain this to the House | :32:30. | :32:31. | |
and in particular whether the phases have now changed? Thirdly, as well | :32:32. | :32:40. | |
as disrupting and getting rid of vessels used for trafficking, it is | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
important that people smugglers are brought to justice for stop can | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
administer provide details on what the government is doing on this | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
front and any details on the prosecution of any of those already | :32:53. | :33:02. | |
apprehended? The question of the European agenda on migration and | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
action plan is another motion which we had to urge the government to | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
split off from the previous one because although there are some | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
differences, in practice they are also some important similarities as | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
the Minister indicates when he first got up to speak. There are a number | :33:24. | :33:31. | |
of issues of which are of great concern, which in particular I would | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
remind the Minister that he said in his expansion memorandum on | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
communications that that was sometime ago, although I will not go | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
through again. The immigration minister, that is right honourable | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
gentleman said that the commission has failed and I quote ... And from | :33:52. | :34:03. | |
other migratory pressures and I'm sure the Minister will understand my | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
asking of the question which is pretty obvious, what are the correct | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
policies if this is the wrong one? Also the commission considers that | :34:11. | :34:18. | |
the asylum system in the European Union and the operation of the | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
government rules is regarded as being fundamentally unfair. Another | :34:22. | :34:28. | |
question is that is the government system broken and given the | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
behaviour of the Chancellor of Germany, it would appeared to be | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
that it is broken or can it be repaired and so does the government | :34:38. | :34:40. | |
wants to see it repaired and what changes will be government seek when | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
the rules are reviewed next year? The government has already made | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
clear it favours a policy of resettlement, and I have to say I | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
finally supported the government on that rather than relocation. These | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
words get used rally the Michael rather freely but I would like to | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
make the point that resettlement is quite different from relocation. | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
Relocation implies the individual is Artie in the EU who applied for | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
asylum and are presumed on the basis of their nationality to be very | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
likely to qualify for international protection. Resettlement on the | :35:20. | :35:26. | |
other hand applies to those outside the EU who are admitted from their | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
country of origin or from conflict areas. Member States have | :35:32. | :35:39. | |
collectively agreed to resettle 22,500 individuals from outside the | :35:40. | :35:49. | |
EU in 2015. On the basis that they are in need of international | :35:50. | :35:52. | |
protection and I have to say, although that is an assertion, there | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
are serious? That have to be made regrettably about the nature of some | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
of the people that are in need of national protection. Many, no doubt | :36:04. | :36:10. | |
justified protection, but when and when I move on to the question of | :36:11. | :36:18. | |
the European convention, the United Nations convention, the Geneva | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
Convention, and the width of the definition that it is applied and my | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
that what we really need is to have a reevaluation of the definitions of | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
what is a refugee, redefinition of what is a migrant, and the | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
redefinition of an asylum seeker. I have to say that this meeting that I | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
referred to in the previous debate which took place in Rome only on | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
Friday this week, last week, where all of the chairman of the relevant | :36:51. | :36:57. | |
select committees were present, there was an fact a endorsement of | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
my proposal which I am now putting forward an international EU meetings | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
over the last four months calling for a review of these definitions. | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
And because they have been expanded from even 1951 and now covered so | :37:14. | :37:21. | |
many different and types of people it is extremely difficult to know | :37:22. | :37:28. | |
whether on a reasonable basis to relocate them. We have already heard | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
the very few, I think it is run the hundred that have already been | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
relocated and it is this, the bottom line. The problem as I will come to | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
it in the moment, the fundamental rights which are applied in this | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
instance and also for the purposes of Human Rights Act of 1998 and the | :37:53. | :38:00. | |
European convention on human rights. I know people feel strongly about | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
this on both sides of the equation and we agreed that we would repeal | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
the human acts of -- Human Rights Act of 1998 but the depth of the | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
analysis on the charter in my judgement needs to be greatly | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
improved because what is happening is that people who are claiming | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
asylum can fall back on the is international conventions in a way | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
that actually creates virtually a blockage through the legal system to | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
the jurisdiction, and the jurors prudence of the human rights was | :38:38. | :38:48. | |
such an. And there is an increasing statistical and legal problem, which | :38:49. | :38:55. | |
is that more and more prop like people are claiming asylum and have | :38:56. | :38:58. | |
been granted it. I am not saying there cases where it is not | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
justified, but I am also saying that the definitions are so wide that it | :39:03. | :39:11. | |
is becoming a difficult problem and not in fact going to lead to any | :39:12. | :39:23. | |
serious policy in deportations. The government has underlined the | :39:24. | :39:24. | |
importance of breaking the economic more like model which encourages | :39:25. | :39:32. | |
people to put others in harms way at sea and that can be commended. There | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
are certainly advantages to the effectiveness of the... Which is | :39:38. | :39:48. | |
quite well supported by the United Kingdom. The trouble is that with | :39:49. | :39:58. | |
these traffickers and smugglers, the problems exceed the capacity to be | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
able to deal with them. I asked the Minister how effective he believes | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
operations have been because of the absence of internationally | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
recognised government in Libya. I would doubt heard to the question of | :40:15. | :40:25. | |
the extent to which we have entered into a sensible arrangement with | :40:26. | :40:33. | |
Turkey. Turkey and the EU have signed a deal to get the fast-track | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
visa privileges in return for ?3 billion worth of aid and I believe | :40:37. | :40:43. | |
the prospect of continuing financial support. And also the prospects of | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
revitalizing EU membership and return for a commitment to a | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
migration action plan, I have to say, I am profoundly cynical about | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
this arrangement. I think it is based on giving money almost in the | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
nature of a bribe to Turkey to provide them with financial support. | :41:07. | :41:17. | |
From what I have been hearing in for meeting I have attended recently, | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
the authorities and Turkey have been by no means diligent in enforcing | :41:21. | :41:28. | |
the arrangements that they have crudely put into place. The fact | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
that there are so many people who are making their way through the | :41:34. | :41:42. | |
continent of Europe, north towards Germany, with an enormous amount of | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
disruption does a great deal toward the inefficiency that Turkey has | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
been behaving with recently. In addition to which, without getting | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
into the question of form policy and defence implications, the reality is | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
that Turkey has been at severe overheads with Russia. That is of | :42:02. | :42:08. | |
severe complication in relation to concerted action in Syria. Also, | :42:09. | :42:16. | |
Turkey is profoundly committed to dealing with as they see it, the | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
Kurds, which is probably more important to them than anything else | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
in this context and that is also an obstacle to form policy in this | :42:27. | :42:37. | |
situation. Just exactly how the Turkey deal will operate, that is | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
something that I am profoundly cynical about. They do actually, in | :42:44. | :42:51. | |
return for these fast-track visa programmes and their desired to come | :42:52. | :43:01. | |
to the European Union has, they have 78 million people in Turkey already, | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
and that is increasing something at the rate of one million and 18 | :43:08. | :43:17. | |
months, so as the population expands the Turkish engagement with the | :43:18. | :43:24. | |
European Union and its fact that they are coming over here is going | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
to increase exponentially. I hope my friend will acknowledge that the | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
discussion about possible visa deliberation involved the Schengen | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
countries, they do not involve those Member States that are not part of | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
Shengen. The Minister was not here when I spent a little bit of time | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
talking about the Schengen asset to this in the previous debate because | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
I believe the proposals which are currently being put forward, which | :43:55. | :44:02. | |
increases the range of the border issue to external borders and | :44:03. | :44:10. | |
including Shengen is going to burst. It is not going to work. There is | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
not the money to pay for, the failure rate in relation to Frontex | :44:17. | :44:23. | |
is itself evidence. I believe it would not work in future and I think | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
the fact that we are not a member of it is not going to alter the | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
pressures that will come as a result of people entering into the Schengen | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
area and then having inquired passports, in relation to European | :44:41. | :44:47. | |
citizenship, then making their way up through the whole of the European | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
Union and causing pressures of the kind that we witnessed recently. I | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
accept that they, Schengen is not at the moment part of the United | :44:59. | :45:07. | |
Kingdom's problems but I believe the pressures that are now beginning to | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
grow our increasing necessity for us in the European Union because | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
Schengen is becoming a potent force, what had been hearing from other | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
Member States towards a greater degree of emphasis on political | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
union. It is a most are marketable state of affairs and the Minister | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
was not here earlier and I see the Minister of state, puzzling over | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
what I am saying, but I am saying and tactically that the Schengen | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
area is currently, not only under review, but is already completely | :45:43. | :45:52. | |
broken by countries. Yet there is an enormous desire to make it more | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
effective and as it does so, so I believe the pressures from political | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
union within that area will tend to increase. Now I want to turn to the | :46:00. | :46:09. | |
question of this 1951 intervention on fundamental rights. But before I | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
do so, I want to have an answer from the Minister, which I put to him | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
before, as to how much, if at all the United Kingdom is allowed to | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
contribute to the EU border force. If the Minister would be kind enough | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
to remember I asked him that before. Is it true that contributing 150 | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
million, it is not apparently but I'm glad to hear him say it. Time | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
did not allow me to respond formally to his question in last debate but | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
we do not contributing to the funding of Frontex. The organisation | :46:42. | :46:48. | |
is... We're not part of Schengen arrangements will stop we do provide | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
operational support through vessels, expertise, debriefing, but that is | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
the nature of our support. I heard much the same back in the days of | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
the treaty, we were told we would not have complete federalism, I | :47:04. | :47:06. | |
sincerely believe that what the Minister just said is what he | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
believes will happen, I trust him to say exactly what is going on and I | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
will take his word. But the pressures are there. That is all I | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
am saying. The honourable Tubman will no doubt take great interest in | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
the announcements we are expecting to make tomorrow in relation to the | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
EU border force and we are looking at those, we will look at those | :47:29. | :47:31. | |
proposals very closely. We do not take part in those because we are | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
not part of that part of the Schengen arrangements. We are | :47:38. | :47:39. | |
ensuring that our national interests are protected and we will scrutinize | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
those carefully. I am grateful to you for those remarks. In relation | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
to the refugees, this has been incorporated into EU law by virtue | :47:51. | :47:58. | |
of the fundamental rights. Therefore, the European quarter | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
justice which implemented European policy is interpreted Q Baek my | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
passages of people claiming asylum... If they reach EU | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
territory. And the nuns were formal prohibition on removal from an | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
unsafe state from Article three of the convention. So there is | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
interaction between the 1951 convention and the charter for | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
fundamental rights. As the Minister again will know too well, the | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
scrutiny committee in the last Parliament, having viewed the | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
problem of fundamental rights, came to the conclusion that we had to | :48:41. | :48:47. | |
override it and indeed, without going back into that debate too | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
much, I simply remind the Minister that the previous Labour government | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
itself was completely against the incorporation of the fundamental | :48:58. | :49:04. | |
rights into the Lisbon Treaty. Furthermore, the noble lord Lord | :49:05. | :49:12. | |
Goldsmith who was the envoy for Prime Minister Tony Blair in seeking | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
to have a protocol, in fact achieving a protocol, which would | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
have excluded the chancellor of fundamental rights on the face of it | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
from the UK legislation. We argued this in the scrutiny committee at | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
the time and I warned and said other members of the committee that this | :49:34. | :49:40. | |
would not stick. Sure enough, as usual, I said regrettably our | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
productions were right. European Court within the scope of European | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
law is now applying the European, the charter of fundamental rights. | :49:51. | :50:00. | |
This is part of the problem. This incorporates unconventional refugees | :50:01. | :50:02. | |
in the definitions that go along with it. I said this earlier but the | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
definitions need to be reviewed. They cannot be reviewed if they are | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
part of the charter which is in itself a part of the European core | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
justice. The whole of this issue is caught up in the issues, that is | :50:18. | :50:24. | |
what I am driving at. That is causing Anna Norma's problem in | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
interpretation, and with the ability to deal with this migration policy. | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
A lot of this stuff, I freely admit this, it is a bit complicated. I | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
have to say that unfortunately what people are failing to understand | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
over the years is when these meetings take place in the European | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
Council, when they take place in the Council of ministers, they are not | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
just sitting around having a discussion as the Cabinet might do | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
in relation to domestic legislation in deciding whether they want to | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
tweak education policy or whether they want to make a change in | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
transport policy. What they are doing when they make decisions is | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
locking in the United Kingdom into legal Agut die like obligations | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
which can only be removed by the unity of other Member States. This | :51:16. | :51:22. | |
is a political system and this entire migration issue in this issue | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
of refugees as compared to migrants as otherwise, I had no less sympathy | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
for genuine refugees than anybody else, I'd dealt a great deal of time | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
dealing with these issues in the House. Dealing people in refugees | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
situations. This is not the same thing, this is not simply dealing | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
with policies which you can rearrange, adjust, this is driving | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
us into a deeper hole and I think that is something we need to say in | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
this debate. Behold question of charter of fundamental rights and | :52:01. | :52:07. | |
human rights is locked into this and that is a serious problem, including | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
the definition of refugees. Also dealing with asylum seekers and I am | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
afraid to say that is why one of the reasons why so few of them in my | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
opinion are being dealt with appropriately. However, the UK is | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
not part of Schengen as the Minister and I and all of us know too well, | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
but we are part of the regulation. EU states and other United Nations | :52:30. | :52:38. | |
signature is our obliged to allow... If a migrant reaches a new | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
territory. However, the United Nations convention is not specific | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
on how the obligations need to be disposed and arguably to claim | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
asylum, under the convention, a rep Yuji needs to arrive directly from a | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
state from which they are playing. -- refugee. This means that the | :52:57. | :53:04. | |
applicant may have not been processed on the roof. Now we are | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
dealing with 900,000 people. -- route. Frontier states under | :53:10. | :53:17. | |
convention and charter of fundamental rights are not, I repeat | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
not allowed to block those with those genuinely allowed to seek | :53:25. | :53:30. | |
asylum from entering. Setting up a border defence as I said earlier, | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
there's more problem now than in the Cold War, setting up these order | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
defenses is extremely uncertain in law. The normal reform and | :53:41. | :53:48. | |
prohibition of United Nations on removal than asylum seeker in an | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
unsafe state can also be interpreted in different ways so as not to | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
exclude their removal to a safe third, or save recent transit state. | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
I want to get this on the record, because it is important that the | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
government looks at all of this carefully when they get the | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
opportunity to do so. As I said, the charter of fundamental rights is | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
subject to European quarter justice whereas the United Nations | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
convention is only a convention. So basically, we have a very | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
complicated means situation which I believe in generating even more | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
problems for the European Union and I think that in this context, will I | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
accept entirely that this motion is merely a take note. Many of the | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
things that I had said not being incorporated into the motion because | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
and I do think and I say this with great respect to the Minister and to | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
the Minister from Europe, some of these issues which are difficult our | :54:51. | :54:57. | |
intractable but nonetheless do lead to the Schengen area have a | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
continuing an ongoing affect on the kingdom as well because so long as | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
we remain part of this European Union, which I know the Minister | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
will accept, I do not think we should anymore, it does not alter | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
the fact that we are affected by these things and this migrant issue | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
with all the tragedies it involves, but also a great deal of the | :55:22. | :55:28. | |
problems that come from fake passports and from the problem of | :55:29. | :55:35. | |
jihadists and the rest, from the tragedies of those drowning in the | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
Mediterranean make the situation even worse. I just simply say to the | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
Minister, do not think I am asking to reply to all these points this | :55:45. | :55:46. | |
evening because I am sure he would not have the chance to do so, but | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
would you please take note of the fact that there are other arguments | :55:51. | :55:52. | |
than those in the motion. I wanted to repeat some comments I | :55:53. | :56:09. | |
have made on the previous debate. I will post this one into a vote this | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
evening. There are two parts of the government's motion which will give | :56:15. | :56:25. | |
us significant concern. I am disappointed that we are talking | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
about a refugee crisis, and yet everything in the papers talk about | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
migrants. This is not a migrant crisis, this is a crisis of refugees | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
fleeing for their lives. If he could get that into the mindset not only | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
of government here, but governments across Europe, we might start to | :56:44. | :56:52. | |
address this emergency. We fully support the fact that we need to | :56:53. | :56:58. | |
have coordinated and firm action against the criminals who are | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
exploiting desperate people, people who are smuggling people. As the | :57:04. | :57:11. | |
laws say, people trafficking and people smuggling are not the same | :57:12. | :57:14. | |
thing. They are different in the eyes of the law. They are hard to | :57:15. | :57:22. | |
tell apart in practice, but very different issues that he needs to be | :57:23. | :57:30. | |
addressed in different ways. The House of Lords subcommittee has | :57:31. | :57:32. | |
recommended to the European commission that in certain | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
directives dealing with people smuggling and trafficking, the House | :57:39. | :57:41. | |
has suggested that it should make a distinction. Smuggling is carried | :57:42. | :57:48. | |
out because of humanitarian motives, but if it is clear that that is not | :57:49. | :57:55. | |
done for criminal purposes or financial gain, but to a misguided | :57:56. | :58:02. | |
belief that it is Unitarian. I wouldn't think that they are | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
international criminals. I am interested to know about the | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
government's attitude toward that. The motion about tackling the causes | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
of migration, and I am interested to hear what the Minister thinks of the | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
causes of 100,000 refugees who arrived in Greece over the last year | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
or so, or the people, the 400,000 people in refugee camps in the | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
Mediterranean coast. Unless they can prove to us that there were 4 | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
million people last year ended the year before and every year over the | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
last ten years, the conclusion is that the root cause of this crisis | :58:46. | :58:57. | |
is war and violence and persecution. Would he agree that the member who | :58:58. | :59:07. | |
describes the family who tried to leave the situation, it really | :59:08. | :59:15. | |
doesn't understand the situation, and it speaks to the issue you are | :59:16. | :59:22. | |
talking about earlier? I would fully agree. I wanted to save more in | :59:23. | :59:30. | |
response to the member, but I will respond to him now. What I will say | :59:31. | :59:36. | |
is that there may be people taking risks that could be described as | :59:37. | :59:42. | |
foolish or desperate. These people are not stupid, some are highly | :59:43. | :59:46. | |
educated and highly skilled. The reason they are taking risks and | :59:47. | :59:55. | |
risking their children's lives, is because they felt left behind in | :59:56. | :00:06. | |
Syria. Would he agree that part of the problem is that there aren't no | :00:07. | :00:12. | |
means of safe passage across land once Borders have been closed, so | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
that they have to go by sea? I absolutely agree. One of the things | :00:18. | :00:26. | |
that ties people, leads them into the hands of the criminals, is if | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
they don't have a safe way of getting out, it is the only way of | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
getting out is to risk their lives with the smugglers. The evidence has | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
all too often washed up on the beaches of Europe and North Africa. | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
I'm interested to see if the Minister will accept that the root | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
cause of this emergency is not the benefit system, or the wonderful | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
economic growth, it is a desperate strategy that is unfolding | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
particularly in Syria. That has got to be addressed once and for all if | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
we want this emergency results in longer terms. The ?3 billion that is | :01:13. | :01:24. | |
going -- I am concerned to know about the transparency and | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
accountability attached to that. What scrutiny will be used for that? | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
I'm not as enthusiastic about the Turkish government as some on the | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
bench seemed to be. I cannot forget what the Turkish military are doing, | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
and until they stopped doing that, we have to know how far the | :01:43. | :01:56. | |
government will go. By the chair of the scrutiny committee, the | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
Minister, among other things was responding to questions about | :02:02. | :02:10. | |
specific calls for assistance. His answer was that he" I believe more | :02:11. | :02:18. | |
Member States can be doing more for the various funding strands in the | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
UK contributions." The story has various versions. | :02:23. | :02:40. | |
There was an important job that had to be done, and everyone agreed that | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
it had to be done. Nobody actually did it. We all agree that we should | :02:45. | :02:52. | |
do a lot more, but we cannot agree on what. The scrutiny committee | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
might ask him to clarify on his comments. Could a specific Member | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
States do more, and what is realistically possible, and what has | :03:07. | :03:17. | |
been done already? One part of the government's motion that gives me | :03:18. | :03:24. | |
concern is the talk about making a link between rescue at sea and | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
permanent resettlement in the European union. I did not realise | :03:30. | :03:39. | |
that there was it automatic link. Claiming asylum, we have to assess | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
whether they are here is an asylum seeker to have a right to live your? | :03:47. | :03:57. | |
I wonder if what we see here is the emergency situation in Syria will | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
continue for years and years. To all intents and purposes, people have, | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
because they want a safe haven. I will accept that it will be years, | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
possibly decades until Syria can take them back. I want further | :04:14. | :04:15. | |
clarification on that from the Minister. I hope I don't have to | :04:16. | :04:23. | |
wait too long for the answer for that. The chair of the scrutiny | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
committee has had answers in the past. At one point we considered | :04:28. | :04:34. | |
posting this to a vote because of a comment the. I think that it is an | :04:35. | :04:48. | |
accurate, and they think that it creates and continues to create an | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
impression that a significant number of these 4 million Syrians are | :04:52. | :04:58. | |
trying to come here because they want to live in the UK. They are not | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
start to get out of Syria because they don't want to die. This is a | :05:04. | :05:12. | |
crisis that is fundamentally caused by war and violence and civil | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
unrest. It is not caused by a desire to live in the United Kingdom. In | :05:18. | :05:26. | |
noting these documents, and approving this text, we are invited | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
to give our approval. Our approval to a deal between the European Union | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
and Turkey. A deal negotiated and signed without our input or are in | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
the moment, or without our ability to vote it down. We shouldn't agree, | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
and I have tabled my own alternative motion. A few days ago, the EU | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
announced what is a 4-part deal with Turkey. I can see what might be in | :05:53. | :06:00. | |
it for Turkey. From that point of view it is a good deal. It is not in | :06:01. | :06:08. | |
a brand's interest. It is not in our national interest. This deal will | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
give 75 million Turks these are free, unrestricted access to the | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
Schengen area from the next October. We may not be part of singing, but | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
this does affect us. There will be no mechanism to lock people coming | :06:24. | :06:31. | |
into the Schengen area, and none to lock people out. This deal can only | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
add to the poorest miss of the EU's frontiers. It can only contribute to | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
the increase in numbers of those seeking entry into the UK. The talks | :06:43. | :06:51. | |
between the EU and Turkey mean that Turkish succession to the EU is back | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
on the table. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, to join the EU. I | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
wouldn't wish it on a friend like Turkey. I have concern over Turkey's | :07:01. | :07:13. | |
abuse of minorities, those who are Christians. The Kurds in particular. | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
We are considering supporting them wanting to join the EU. Why should | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
we do that when they don't act their human rights abuse is so terrible? | :07:27. | :07:34. | |
He makes a powerful point. We deal with Turkey as an equal, but they do | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
not have the belief in equality in Turkey that we have in the West and | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
in North America. That is a valid and powerful point. Into the deal | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
between EU and Turkey, which we are being asked to approve, the EU will | :07:52. | :07:59. | |
give Turkey 3 billion euros a year, of which a hefty cut comeback will | :08:00. | :08:06. | |
come from a the UK. The fourth aspect of this deal under migration | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
of management that I find the most objectionable. Each year some | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
400,000 migrants from Turkey will be allowed to settle within Schengen. | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
To settle within Schengen. We are not in the same, but it will affect | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
us. These migrants will be assigned to Schengen Member States. Once the | :08:28. | :08:36. | |
400,000 migrants have begin in the EU, they will acquire the right to | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
live anywhere in the EU. We imagine that those allocated to our Hyatt | :08:43. | :08:56. | |
employment -- Hyatt employment -- those assigned to Portugal, those | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
assigned to live in Italy will be able to move wherever they want to. | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
This is being assigned in our name with profound implications on us, | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
and we have no say. We can correct specs more migrants to find their | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
way into this country as a direct consequence of this deal, and there | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
are many voters who will deeply resent the fact that they have not | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
been asked. The motion before us talks about the need for us to work | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
with our international partners. Indeed, we must, but I would ask | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
ministers to be more circumspect when we select our international | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
partners. It is difficult to access -- assess radicals without assessing | :09:44. | :09:59. | |
Saudi Arabia. The EU has imposed sanctions on Iran. I cannot support | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
the motion in front of us. I regret that even if this house objected, | :10:07. | :10:14. | |
even if we rallied heroically to defeat this motion, if we voted down | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
the motion, nothing would change. It wouldn't matter a drop. We do have | :10:20. | :10:26. | |
assigned away the deal to sign a deal with Turkey. The consequences | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
will be with us for the years to come. Here in eight empty chamber on | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
a Monday morning, there is nothing we can about it. Karim three aspects | :10:37. | :10:47. | |
of the European union agenda. The first document mentions... Save | :10:48. | :10:56. | |
legal routes. Vulnerable people cannot be left to resorts to the | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
criminal network of smugglers and traffickers, there must be safe ways | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
for them to reach the EU. The house select committee has said that | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
addressing the root cause of migration is to create safe and | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
legal routes for refugees to enter the EU. A modest and wholly | :11:15. | :11:26. | |
achievable proposal if there is political will. We welcome the | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
Government's resettlement programme, overdue as it may have been. This | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
has been an accumulation of documents over a long period of | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
time, during which had our proposal in the European scrutiny committee | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
been taken up earlier, we would have been debating these figures. We are | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
not talking about 20 or 40,000, we are talking about 400, 500, 600,000. | :11:52. | :12:03. | |
About the resettlement plans, I will talk about resettlement. It is not | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
the only method of providing a safe and equal roots. We have urged the | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
government to listen to extra organizations calling for family | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
reunion loss, so that fewer people are compelled to risk their lives | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
leaving the Mediterranean. The second aspect I want to mention is | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
the most important is in regard to the notion of hotspots. We have | :12:32. | :12:40. | |
talked about in recent months. This asylum system was already chaotic | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
before this crisis began. Expecting those systems to cope with this | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
crisis would be entirely unreasonable. This hotspot approach | :12:51. | :12:59. | |
is supposed to help. In the theory, the you will work with front-line | :13:00. | :13:07. | |
states to identify those who claim asylum, and they will be channeled | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
into an asylum procedure where people will helps to support asylum | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
as quickly as possible. 60 million euros was supposed to be invested in | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
health care for migrants. I have not had the benefit of visiting any | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
hotspots, but have read and listened to reports. Those include reports | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
from the International Rescue Committee, who said that the weight | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
hotspots are being carried out are leaving people without basics | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
shelter. In October, and update explained reasons why that might be | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
the case. Only six Member States have responded to the call, with | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
just 81 out of 374 experts requested. Six Member States have | :13:59. | :14:11. | |
responded out of 48. Lots of serious questions remain about hotspots, and | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
how did they will function. I would like to know if the Minister can | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
comment on the legal basis of these hotspots, and if these hotspots | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
people in these hotspots have access to legal advice. How do I do with | :14:26. | :14:34. | |
Will depend on their national LD. The number who have been removed | :14:35. | :14:43. | |
from hotspots. What is the UK contribution to this? I turned to | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
the issue of relocation. I was not able to attended the earlier debate. | :14:50. | :14:59. | |
The government's negotiation with other EU states address pressures. | :15:00. | :15:10. | |
The government washes its hands. Instead, they leave the | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
responsibility to everybody else. The House of Lords described the | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
excuse is as unconvincing. I would say that that is kind to the | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
government. The idea that whether or not the UK take part in relocation | :15:25. | :15:33. | |
scheme affects people who are attempting the journey. It has been | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
months since the UK said it would shock its responsibilities in this | :15:39. | :15:40. | |
card Piller regard. What are your peanut relocation | :15:41. | :15:57. | |
scheme should be doing this to response to an emergency situation | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
as humanitarian aid increases. Failing to opt in means that we are | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
failing to live up to our duty of solidarity, that we share between | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
the Member States. A crisis of this scale requires collective action. | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
Dealing with the people in desperate circumstances is impossible for two | :16:17. | :16:24. | |
or three countries. A number of 500 million, it poses an impossible | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
struggle. As the European agenda document states, the member state | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
can address relocation alone, and that we need a European approach. | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
That is the approach that the government should be taking, instead | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
said that head in the sand approach that is going on. With the leave of | :16:45. | :16:55. | |
the house, perhaps I could respond to some of the point in this debate. | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
The issue over organised immigration is important, and it is worth | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
underlining the important the word -- over the months we have organised | :17:08. | :17:15. | |
a task force, focusing on the crime that has been going on in the UK | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
border, the Mediterranean, and France. We have disrupted organised | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
crime, and our force will be expanded to a 100 strong team. | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
Sharing data is vital to help us combat criminal gains, and enhanced | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
data sharing is part of the EU's response. The chair of the scrutiny | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
committee asked for the government's priorities in terms of where we | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
think we need to take action. I have written previously to underline that | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
there are four points that we have highlighted. On how the money is | :17:52. | :18:00. | |
spent tackling projects in transit countries, how organised crime is | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
fought which is better to join up with Member States, the issue of | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
dealing with economic might immigration to ensure that those | :18:10. | :18:19. | |
entering the EU -- those kinds of refugees status doesn't need to be | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
addressed more firmly. We need a stronger coherence between | :18:25. | :18:26. | |
development work and economic migrants. The issue of Dublin, we | :18:27. | :18:34. | |
support the Dublin regulations. We believe that asylum dollars in the | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
EU should be dealt with the member state concerned. The commission is | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
Rita doing the Dublin regulations to bring in a new regulation that next | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
spring. We are cooperating, but we believe that the long-standing | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
principles at the heart of the relation of the right ones. It would | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
be an error to replace them with untested measures. In respect of the | :18:58. | :19:08. | |
operations into the Mediterranean is -- the high seas operation, and to | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
reports of EU committee meetings, the house will be updated should | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
there be further progress which we will look to. It is focused on the | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
situation in Libya, and we welcome support from Libya and across the | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
political spectrum and recognising the urgency of creating a | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
long-awaited government, their accord that requires politicians to | :19:33. | :19:41. | |
sign by December. The UN effort to establish a government of accord in | :19:42. | :19:49. | |
Libya. We support that as a priority for moving forward. In terms of the | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
EU Turkey action plan, the action plan covers most of our priority | :19:55. | :19:57. | |
areas, including controlling the flow of migrants from from Turkey to | :19:58. | :20:11. | |
the EU. It is important to stress that Turkey is tackling smuggling | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
networks. The action plan incentivizes Turkey to do more, and | :20:19. | :20:29. | |
the reaction plan does not guarantee Turkey -- it is important to | :20:30. | :20:37. | |
underline in the stress -- the human rights abuses taking place in | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
Turkey, have you been discussions on relation to this matter? It is clear | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
to me at his house that the human right abuses have not stopped, and | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
that they will continue full stop we do support Turkey's EU sufficient | :20:54. | :21:01. | |
progress. The process recognises that Turkey needs to do more to meet | :21:02. | :21:08. | |
EU standards to continuing reform, particularly in the area of | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
fundamental rights. Active and credible negotiations remain the | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
best way for Turkey to make further progress. We have touched on the | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
hotspots issue, and the UK stands ready to support offers, and | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
otherwise to see that there are the appropriate mechanisms in place. Our | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
position on the migration crisis is practical, pragmatic, and focuses on | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
the need for concerted humanitarian aid for those who need our | :21:37. | :21:43. | |
protection, ensuring cooperation with EU partners, combating illegal | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
immigration, and those who profit from it, and protecting our | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
security. That is where the government's focus remains. | :21:50. | :22:06. | |
The ayes have it. Motion at number five on business of the house. The | :22:07. | :22:22. | |
question is as on the order paper. The ayes have it, the ayes have it. | :22:23. | :22:35. | |
Motion number six, and seven. The question is as on the order paper. | :22:36. | :22:50. | |
The ayes have it, the ayes have it. The question is as on the order | :22:51. | :22:57. | |
papers. The ayes have it, the ayes have it. The question is that this | :22:58. | :23:11. | |
house now adjourned. I am grateful for this opportunity to lead my | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
first debate on the serious issue of finance for student nurses and | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
midwives. I spent much of my career outside of this place working for a | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
number of charities to widen access to higher education, and to tackle | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
broader education disadvantage. As cabinet leader for well-being, I | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
became aware of the challenges facing front line staff and managers | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
of the front line trust to serve my constituents. I have eight -- I'm a | :23:44. | :23:51. | |
supporter of Unicef, and I am grateful to the national student | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
organisation, and other organizations who gathered the | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
evidence for this evening's debate. With just a few lines in the Autumn | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
Statement, the Chancellor announced the biggest shake-up in the career | :24:05. | :24:12. | |
of nursing, midwifery since the act of 1968. By scrapping student plans | :24:13. | :24:23. | |
and scrapping tuition fees, that's the skill and potential consequences | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
of this dish and merit further Parmenter he scrutiny and public | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
debate. I hope that tonight will provide the first of many | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
opportunities for that debate to take place. Nursing and midwifery | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
students pay no tuition fees for their studies. They receive grants | :24:41. | :24:41. | |
up to ?1000 COMMENTATOR: Pounds. This is significant, because | :24:42. | :24:54. | |
students in both courses are required to work throughout the | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
degrees in clinical practice, where they are subject to 24-hour care | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
cycles. They work evenings, nights, and weekends. Many will spend 60% of | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
their degree doing this, with nurses required to work at least 2300 hours | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
across the degree. Even with the current levels of financial support, | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
many struggle to make ends meet. The courses are longer, their holidays | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
are shorter, and their placement are demanding. Those who do paid work | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
outside of their courts can't work over 60 hours a week as a result, | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
and they should not be expected to do so. There has been a public | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
outcry at the loss of the NHS per street, but the government public | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
plans go further. Students will lose their grants for maintenance, but | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
they will also be expected to take out loans for their tuition fees for | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
the first time. These changes will burden students with debts of at | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
least a ?51,600, which they will begin to pay back as soon as they | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
graduate, because nurses starting salary is just over the repayment | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
threshold, shamefully frozen at ?21,000. As a result, nurses will on | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
average take a pay cut of ?900 a year in order to meet their | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
payments. This is no way for ministers to treat the people who | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
form the backbone of the NHS. Given that the government sees fit to | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
charge the systems for tuition, perhaps the Minister will confirm | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
whether he intends to pay students for the hours that they put into | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
staffing or hospitals? If a private company try to get workers to work | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
long shifts, and to pay for the privilege of working those long | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
shifts, while training, they would be condemned. We should be no less | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
outraged by what ministers are proposing for and midwives. The | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
impact of these changes will be felt beyond nurses, and midwives. | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
Physiotherapists, occupational therapists, dietitians podiatrists, | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
radiographers, process assists and other allied health professionals | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
stand to lose out. We're not talking about the highest paid people in | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
this land. This is an assault on the living standards of workers, really | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
causing outrage of staff and members of the public who chairs the work | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
that they do on our behalf. Giving the skill of these reforms, it is | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
outrageous that the government chose to sneak them out in the Autumn | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
Statement. The Chancellor's statement made an oblique references | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
at replacing direct funding with loans for new students. The policy | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
decision on page 126 of the blue book merely says that students | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
studying nursing, midwifery, or health subjects in 2017 will be | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
moved onto her stomach onto standards support system with the | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
details subject to consultation. Since the government has placed so | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
little information in the public domain, and given that higher | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
education institutions will be turning their minds to the 2017 | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
admissions round, I hope that like to be shed on the details this | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
evening. Kennedy Minister confirmed that the government will consult on | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
the principle of these policy changes, and not nearly their | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
implementation? Can he tell us with the full timetable for this decision | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
will be from consultation to implementation? Why analysis has the | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
government conducted a on the students for tuition costs and | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
maintenance costs, and while they published an assessment for these | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
proposals? What research has the government conducted into the | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
financial hardship facing existing nursing and midwifery students, and | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
students of Allied health subjects? Why does the government think that | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
it is fair that students from the most deprived backgrounds should | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
have their grants taken away, while some of the wealthiest people | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
receive tax cuts? How much of this that does the government expected to | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
write off, because those indented by those reforms are unable to repay | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
them in full? Department will meet the cost of servicing the charge for | :29:04. | :29:10. | |
the student loan debt, the department for health, or the | :29:11. | :29:12. | |
departed for business, innovation, and skills? What about Northern | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, where different places will be. | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
Is I understand... Will be 56,000 people gathered. The health minister | :29:26. | :29:39. | |
has committed himself to... Can they do the same? I agree with the Abu | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
gentleman. Of course he rightly points out that this is going to | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
open up a postcode lottery across the United Kingdom as it from parts | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
of the United Kingdom choose to treat nurses and train nurses and | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
midwives in different ways. We arty have in the case of the junior | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
doctors dispute the government saw sent and decided to reflect on their | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
position. We were faced with the prospects of nurses in my | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
constituency flocking to other parts of the United Kingdom because the | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
situation there was more generous. With great respect all of the people | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
represented here, Scotland, wealth and Northern Ireland, I want to keep | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
talented training doctors and nurses and midwives and other health | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
confessionals who live in my constituency in my constituency is. | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
So they can serve my constituents that too where they work. These are | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
very serious issues and I hope... I will give way. He is making an | :30:41. | :30:48. | |
excellent speech with excellent points pointing out the significance | :30:49. | :30:56. | |
of nursing to the country. Scotland since their solidarity to their | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
colleagues in England. -- since. I am glad he is bringing this debate. | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
I'm grateful for that intervention, I condoned. Members on the benches | :31:06. | :31:13. | |
opposite, they may where the NHS back on their lapel, but they are | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
quick to attack the conditions of the NHS staff when it comes to | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
taking difficult decisions. When we were in government, and we went as | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
we were making changes to higher education, this is not something we | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
brought forward. It will take no less from the party opposite when | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
they attacked Labour spending plans at the 2010 General election because | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
we wanted to have the deficit. They promised to eliminate it and they | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
have to. It is on their own record that the government is not in a | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
position to head to other parties when it comes to their record on | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
spending plans. Does he agree with me that what is devastating about | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
this is that people from my constituency, my background, the | :31:56. | :32:03. | |
reality is they will not be able to... They will be crying out for | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
nurses and people to fill those positions. The NHS is being burdened | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
by agency staff who do not have the staff available? She speaks with | :32:11. | :32:18. | |
great experience, the government should heed the points that she | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
makes. I will turn to some of the other questions I have for the | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
Minister this evening. Our clinical placements be funded under this | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
student loan system? The government talks about the number of places it | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
will expand, their occupational placements that need to be put into | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
place and the government should explain how they intend to find | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
those. Given the numbers of mature applicants were nursing, midwifery | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
and allied health subjects, what assessment has the government made | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
of the likely impact of these reforms on applications from the | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
students. Is the government concerned that applications from | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
mature students may fall given the depth of Digital impact that reforms | :32:59. | :33:07. | |
had -- detrimental. Given that many choose it as a second degree may the | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
be able to take $100,000 of that, how will the government ensure that | :33:13. | :33:16. | |
this route is not close to the students? Have they done any thought | :33:17. | :33:25. | |
about the extent of the reform... The government is... Does the | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
government have any evidence which makes clear at what stage they are | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
turned away? And if it is really the case that people are flocking to | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
these professions, can the Minister explain my my trust has been so | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
reliant on temporary agency staff including nurses flown over from | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
Portugal to adjust the recruitment and retention challenges of facing | :33:49. | :33:56. | |
our NHS. Can the Minister informed the House of any changes will be | :33:57. | :33:58. | |
made to the additional allowances such as the extra weeks allowance or | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
the dependents allowance? If so, what are those plan changes and if | :34:04. | :34:06. | |
so what assessment has the government made up the potential | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
impact of those plan changes? Given the press speculation over the | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
weekend of the government explains increase the cap and university | :34:15. | :34:16. | |
tuition fees over all, what assurance can the Minister give the | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
House that students sitting nursing, midwifery and allied health subjects | :34:22. | :34:23. | |
will not see the tuition fees spiked up even further than is already | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
being suggested? Even at this government seems content is shipped | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
it for existing students, can the Minister expect Turner features | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
students to believe the terms and conditions may sign up for one not | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
be changed and applied retrospectively down the line? At | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
the very least, I hope the Minister will be able to confirm that the NHS | :34:45. | :34:46. | |
will continue to find the tuition fees for extent too existing | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
students for the remainder of their studies. When the Coalition | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
Government chose to increase the fees in 2010, the move was subjected | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
to debate and a vote in this house. Given the media speculation that | :35:00. | :35:08. | |
current officers, two can the Minister give the House and | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
assurance that we all have a vote and we all have a full debate should | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
the government just extend tuition fees to nursing, midwifery and | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
allied health subject costs? Many students have party written to | :35:23. | :35:24. | |
ministers in the Department of Health and are awaiting a reply. | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
With the Minister commit to meeting with student representatives to | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
discuss their concerns. Madame deputies the greatest of hard to | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
understand why the government shift in policy is generating so much | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
concern and anxiety. -- Madam Deputy Speaker. ... The University of | :35:41. | :35:49. | |
Hartford sure, and of the chartered Society of physical therapy, I have | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
been contacted by student nurses and midwives in my own constituency and | :35:56. | :35:57. | |
have received messages of support from this debate from those in of | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
other honourable and right honourable members. Before I | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
conclude I would like to share some of the stories I have heard and | :36:07. | :36:08. | |
finished by making a few points about nursing and midwifery students | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
himself. These are exceptional people into their dedication to | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
their job is incredible. They work long hours, often in difficult | :36:20. | :36:21. | |
situations and take a direct role for caring for patients with there | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
at their most of. Nursing student I have spoken to told me just how | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
challenging their work can be. -- portable. The hands of patients | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
their final moments comforting them as they passed. They are a bedrock | :36:35. | :36:47. | |
of support for families. In the making of his powerful speech, I | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
wanted to share my thoughts on the matter as someone who's sons life | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
was saved by a student midwife and whose life was saved. Does he agree | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
with me that now making those people not only work for free, but to pay | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
to save the lives of people like me and my son is simply despicable? I | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
wholeheartedly agree with my right honourable friend and I am grateful | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
she shared her own difficult personal experience as well. Nurses | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
care for us and some of our darkest and most painful moments, the weight | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
of the responsibilities carries with what they have the physical and | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
emotional load. The same history nurses midwife. One spoke with her | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
baby was born still... When her baby was born, Tom Asche will never | :37:37. | :37:45. | |
forget how she spent time with a mum who carried twins. She came back for | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
another 12 and a half hours with the same woman. She supported the | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
delivery of ten babies and feels immense pride in being part of a | :37:54. | :38:00. | |
moment... Momentous moment. Save one life and you are a euro, say 100 | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
lives in Uranus. Is people are seeking to qualify for these... They | :38:05. | :38:12. | |
deserve our respect, admiration and support in the right incentives to | :38:13. | :38:15. | |
continue or even command study in the first place. Anastacia listen to | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
the students protesting and the nearly 150,000 people who signed | :38:22. | :38:30. | |
positions to keep the NHS bursary. Day shipping things through properly | :38:31. | :38:32. | |
and I asked the government to support this process, it will be | :38:33. | :38:43. | |
tragedy. I look forward to the ministers response and hope in the | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
coming days, weeks and months he wasn't carefully to the voices of | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
does who form the bath bone of our health service -- the backbone. Is a | :38:52. | :38:59. | |
privilege to respond to this debate. I know I am doing so after a great | :39:00. | :39:09. | |
speech who has experience and some expertise in student finance. He was | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
on the front lines when we had discussions in this place some years | :39:13. | :39:19. | |
ago. Not here but outside of it. I know that he brings passion, and | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
knowledge to this debate. I hope that he will not mind, I know he has | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
heard this before, if I went through some of the issues and some of the | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
reasons why the government feels this is the right thing to do. At | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
the right time before I addressed some of the specific and detailed | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
questions he has rightly put it. He will be aware that nursing remains | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
one of the few subjects which is not put in the preview of the current | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
student finance system. The current system is not delivering as it | :39:59. | :40:07. | |
should both for health students and patients. The reason for that, | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
simply put, is that nursing is one of the most oversubscribed subjects | :40:12. | :40:18. | |
in the whole of the academic range of. It is the fifth most popular. | :40:19. | :40:25. | |
Laster there were 57,000 applicants for the 20,000 nursing places | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
available. I do not wish to go down the route of discussing in HS | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
finance because it will lead us not into a place that is either easy or | :40:37. | :40:43. | |
part of his argument. Nor is it particularly realistic to do so. | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
There'll be no way that any government will be able to offer a | :40:50. | :40:51. | |
place to every single person wishing to apply with the qualifications for | :40:52. | :40:59. | |
a nursing place within the current funding system. The question is, how | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
do we change the system so we get more people the opportunity to study | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
nursing? And not only that, so that we are able to better supply the | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
nurses and the nursing positions required and the NHS. He asked an | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
important question I'm a which is why, he should be seeing a shortage | :41:22. | :41:34. | |
in his specific hospital of field nursing places it is a function of | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
parts of London, there are problems in recruiting. I was in a place | :41:39. | :41:45. | |
where they have a similar problem. There is an oversubscription for the | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
number of places. He could have... We almost have a record number of | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
nurses in training. How does that add up, the simple reason is this it | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
is because under this government we have seen a significant expansion of | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
the number of nurses in the workplace. It was in response to the | :42:04. | :42:11. | |
tragic events admin staff, the Francis Report and the results from | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
the inquiry. It is let us to the conclusion that has eluded previous | :42:19. | :42:27. | |
governments. In some parts of the country, it was not fatally stabbed. | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
That required a significant increase in the nursing numbers. Nursing | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
members that only be provided in the short term by agency nurses inspire | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
recently we have not only increased the number of nurses, that takes a | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
while to come through, but we have also been required to take action on | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
the cost of agencies themselves. That does not change the fact that | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
it is simply impossible within the funding set up as it is at the | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
moment is that either the demand or supply for nursing. There are other | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
reasons, if it were not for the reason we need to do something to | :43:07. | :43:14. | |
get it better match between nursing places them at the NHS requires and | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
what students want to do. If it were not for the reason, I will be | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
wanting to push this reform for this reason, I directly disagree with the | :43:24. | :43:25. | |
honourable member in his assessment of student financing. I disagreed | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
with him in 2011 when we have this discussion, not in this chamber, and | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
if I may gently put it I think that this side of the House was proved | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
right of those reforms. The simple fact is we now have more | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
applications from disadvantaged students than ever in the history of | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
student finance and higher education in this country. We have seen a | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
significant expansion in the number of students. Going to higher | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
education, 18 euros are the most -- in the most disadvantaged areas are | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
72% more likely to apply to higher education in 2015 then in 2006. It | :44:06. | :44:13. | |
has happened in precisely the opposite way than he and his friends | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
on the benches when they were making the argument in 2011 expected it to | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
happen. We are outside that it it would happen that way. He should | :44:22. | :44:28. | |
look a bit more carefully at what happened following those referred | :44:29. | :44:36. | |
the microforms. -- reforms. He has he also accepted the majority of | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
that loan that will never be paid back him and this includes graduates | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
who have far more than nurses. I hope that he will concede my central | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
point that it still the significant majority of students going into | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
nursing ongoing active undergraduate point. For that cohort we have seen | :44:57. | :45:05. | |
the most spectacular expansion opportunity to higher education than | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
at any time since higher education was opened probably to people after | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
the Second World War. I think we should celebrate on both sides of | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
the House, I know that they have also embraced the reforms that | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
happen and see why it is a good thing. To be direct with him, I know | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
that I would disagree with many on his side of the House, I want to | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
bring those advantages to student nursing as well. In two senses, I | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
want to expand the number of places available to people from all | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
backgrounds so that they have the opportunity to go into nursing and I | :45:39. | :45:40. | |
want to bring the advantages of linking old to not too -- from nine | :45:41. | :45:50. | |
too nontraditional places. I believe passionately in that. That is what | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
even if we are not for the reason that the NHS requires is change, but | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
students require this change. There are 37,000 people who do not get a | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
place to apply for it, I would not be making this change because I do | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
believe it is the right thing to do for those who otherwise would not | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
have been given an opportunity. I will give way. Can I press them on | :46:16. | :46:23. | |
my honourable member about mature students? In higher education the | :46:24. | :46:30. | |
number of mature students attending are hacked, discovered way related | :46:31. | :46:32. | |
to the funding issues. But also the social mobility Commissioner who is | :46:33. | :46:41. | |
is the key vehicle for mature people to express and achieve social | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
mobility is through education. Any address directly how he will avoid | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
mature students, mature adults going and training from following | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
similarly as it has in higher education? If you will give me a few | :46:56. | :47:03. | |
moments to complete. I have several things to say I mature students. | :47:04. | :47:11. | |
That is why I want to make sure that we are turning to making sure that | :47:12. | :47:22. | |
any showing these proposals are robust as possible. Just answer his | :47:23. | :47:32. | |
points that he made on the consultation, we will consult on the | :47:33. | :47:38. | |
full too fullness of the reform, we will not consult on the principle | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
cause that has been decided. It has been a point outline my my | :47:43. | :47:43. | |
honourable friend. Bashed by my. And the timetable is that it will | :47:44. | :47:59. | |
begin the consultation in January. We have not determined when you will | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
conclude precisely, it will be a full consultation. The consultation | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
will look at a significant part about how to make sure that mature | :48:11. | :48:13. | |
students are supported. I can confirm one element of it, we will | :48:14. | :48:21. | |
allow mature students to apply for the loan. That will account for only | :48:22. | :48:28. | |
a small number of the cohort. We will be looking at the particular | :48:29. | :48:30. | |
changes and impact that these changes will make. In relation to | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
mature students, they make up about a third of the cohort going into | :48:37. | :48:44. | |
nursing. I am a little bit confused about his argument which appears, by | :48:45. | :48:51. | |
removing an existing advantage he will create an advantage for more | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
people to go into the nursing profession. I have to say, most | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
people listening to that will find it illogical. I know that the | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
Minster is not normally in a logical person. Would be sensible to do what | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
my honourable friend suggested, have a proper impact assessment. And then | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
a vote in the neighborhood apartment so we can decide on the basis of the | :49:18. | :49:25. | |
impact assessment, -- in Parliament. I can tell them that in economic | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
impact assessment will be published with the consultation. I hope that | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
that will begin to inform the debate. I know that he might imagine | :49:35. | :49:43. | |
that the proposition I am putting this not align with how he might be | :49:44. | :49:50. | |
a fact will turn out. Can I ask them to look at what happened in 2011 | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
when we met this debate with other students, in fact the fast majority | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
when the exact arguments were put. We have seen the opposite happened. | :50:00. | :50:12. | |
I will give way. The fact of the matter is, we are not talking about | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
what happened then, we are talking about a particular group at the time | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
were excluded those provisions. He has not yet explained to us why he | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
now has decided to include them in the provisions, other than he is | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
going to take away an advantage that already exist. I was testing the | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
state -- I wish to see the same advantages that those are ready on | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
the new financial assessment have go to those who are not on it. Able to | :50:40. | :50:42. | |
see an expansion in a number of places. I want to see the affects | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
and the changes that it has made to university admissions and the rest | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
of the sector applied to nursing so we can see not only an expansion in | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
the number of nurses being trained, but also a broadening of the | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
backgrounds of those going into nursing as it has happened and all | :51:01. | :51:09. | |
of our higher education areas. I will explain quickly how this is | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
part of a wider reform we are making of student access to nursing. The | :51:13. | :51:24. | |
honourable member friend his entire speech around the University route. | :51:25. | :51:31. | |
The amended to reflect on the fact that this government has stated that | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
it will bring in an apprenticeship route to nursing, to level six which | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
will give an alternative route into nursing where nurses will be able to | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
earn while they learn from HCA levels all the way to a full nursing | :51:49. | :51:57. | |
qualification. Added degree level. The it'll be possible for them to do | :51:58. | :52:00. | |
so mature students which will mean that it may take a bit longer, but | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
it means they will be able to earn all of the way from an existing job | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
up until having a nursing qualification. An innovation which I | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
think should be welcomed on both sides of house. It is a real | :52:14. | :52:21. | |
opportunity for expansion. I will explain before I give way, there are | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
many people working as health care assistance in the NHS who do not | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
have the opportunity to be able to progress. Unless they leave the | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
workforce to do so. That puts them in and of -- in an impossible | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
situation because they have other duties and families to support. What | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
we are able to do for the first time is given opportunity to that group | :52:48. | :52:50. | |
of people to be able to progress through their partnership route. | :52:51. | :52:58. | |
Which will expand the whole error of career progression to one of the | :52:59. | :53:01. | |
larger cohorts in the workforce of the NHS in a way that no government | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
has previously done. -- apprenticeship. Able to clear up | :53:06. | :53:13. | |
some things. I wondered if could clarify, if they will be paid for | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
doing that apprenticeship and what rates? And if in a cohort he is | :53:17. | :53:25. | |
talking about, getting students into work, those people will not fall | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
foul of the 16 hours that you have to work, not in training to receive | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
the governments free childcare. On the childcare Bill committee was | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
made that currently nurses in studying will not be able to act for | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
that because when not be considered work. When they saved my life, it | :53:44. | :53:53. | |
was light work. -- like. She speaks with authority from her own | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
versatile experience. I noticed recently she has spoken her mind | :53:59. | :54:09. | |
without holding back. But I will say to her, we are in detailed | :54:10. | :54:16. | |
discussions now with the nursing midwifery Council about how this | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
friendship route will work. They are the independent regular and have to | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
certify that qualification matches the existing degree and University | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
route. It has to have completed quality on both a steam and rigor. | :54:29. | :54:40. | |
The apprentices will get a salary. -- a esteemed. You ask back to | :54:41. | :54:55. | |
continue with a similar salary point as an apprentice. I will take her | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
particular question, the concern about maternity care, it pertains to | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
student nurses rather than apprentices. I will write her a | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
detail about it. I hope that what she will realize that asking her | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
question, she does have strength behind this. There will be two roots | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
and to nursing, one of the University, the other the | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
apprenticeship. This is one of the most exciting innovations in the | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
workforce of the NHS for several decades, opens up nursing to a whole | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
range of existing people who have not had an opportunity before and | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
provides a different route into nursing. With the same rigor and | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
robustness which the existing university degree route gives. I | :55:50. | :55:51. | |
will give way once more. He cares about getting of mature | :55:52. | :56:03. | |
students into nursing and training programmes. If numbers do fall going | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
forward, will he come back to the house and report on it? Will hit | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
pause any further reforms until the decline is halted? I expect to be | :56:13. | :56:21. | |
held accountable for this significant reform all the way | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
through the changes that are in there envisaged. I hope to return it | :56:26. | :56:33. | |
with good news about progress as it has happened with other areas. We | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
want to be deliberative about the way that we form this consultation. | :56:38. | :56:40. | |
It is important that we get it right. I note the careful | :56:41. | :56:49. | |
questioning. He understands the full gamut of the issues that need to be | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
addressed in this consultation. I will at answer some of those. He | :56:55. | :57:01. | |
asked about pinnacle placement and the funding of them. We have started | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
discussions about that with universities, and that will form | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
part of the wider consultation. The consequentialist will be a matter | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
for the Treasury, as they are for everything else. Officials are | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
discussing that in the normal way. He asked about research into | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
financial hardship, and that will form a part of the consultation. The | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
government will be open to further research beyond the economic impact | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
assessment. He asked whether I would be happy to meet students, and of | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
course I would be. I have already met unison and a nursing | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
organisation, and discussed the changes that I wish to make. I | :57:44. | :57:50. | |
shouldn't pretend to answer for them, but I have had productive | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
discussions with both, especially around the apprenticeship route. I | :57:55. | :58:01. | |
know that we will disagree about bursaries, but with unison in | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
particular I think that there is an understanding to open up different | :58:06. | :58:12. | |
routes into the nursing workforce. I think that the model will be a | :58:13. | :58:14. | |
strong one. The member made an important point | :58:15. | :58:28. | |
about agency nurses. As I enter that as I am passing. Part of the reason | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
why are we are looking at this is to make sure that we provide a more | :58:34. | :58:43. | |
sustainable workforce, so that we can not rely on agencies and the | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
thanks Steph for the peaks in NHS demand. That is why we need to do | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
something around numbers, and why I hope we will be increasing the | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
numbers by 10,000 over the course of this Parliament. That is a | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
significant increase in establishing student nurses. It would be the | :59:04. | :59:09. | |
largest increase in student nurses in any government since 1948. I hope | :59:10. | :59:15. | |
I have answered the majority of the questions. Clearly I haven't. | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
LAUGHTER I will give an opportunity once more, but I do not want to keep | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
the house much longer. I welcome what he said about treading | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
carefully and thoughtfully around the consultation. What he has not | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
addressed whether or not extending the tuition fee regime to all of the | :59:33. | :59:41. | |
students would be subject to thoughtful debate followed by a vote | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
in this house, and the other place? I can't give him a definitive answer | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
to that yet, because I think that we will wait and see what the outcome | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
of the consultation is so that the house can be better informed. I | :59:56. | :00:01. | |
imagine there will be opportunities and a for debates. I know that he | :00:02. | :00:07. | |
will want to bring it. I reflect his concerns to the secretary of state | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
and to the Leader of the House, who I am sure will receive them with | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
interest. I thank you for bringing this, because it gives us an | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
opportunity to explain our rationales. There will be points | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
where we disagree, but I hope that you will see the force of our | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
arguments about what we want to do to expand the nursing workforce to | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
provide different routes into nursing, and to provide | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
opportunities to 18 and 19-year-old undergraduate nurses that have been | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
extended to other parts of the higher education sphere. These are | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
big proposals, and they could mean a rapid transfer mission of the NHS | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
workforce, and expansion in the number of nursing students. I hope | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
for a constructive discussion across the house with the kind of expertise | :00:58. | :01:06. | |
that we have heard from members. The question is that this House do now | :01:07. | :01:16. | |
adjourn. As many of the opinion said ayes. The ayes habit. -- have it. | :01:17. | :01:27. |