18/01/2016 House of Commons


18/01/2016

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 18/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

I think the minister for thd recruiting battle we are allowed to

:00:10.:00:14.

do in Northern Island and that we have just under 7% of the rdserve

:00:15.:00:20.

forces from Northern Ireland against 3% of the population. Maybe the

:00:21.:00:24.

Minister could look at recrtiting more in Northern Ireland and we

:00:25.:00:27.

could carry on the backbone of the armed services. Northern Irdland has

:00:28.:00:32.

always been a really excelldnt recruiting ground for both regulars

:00:33.:00:35.

and reservists. I am conscious author of the fact that beyond the

:00:36.:00:40.

statistics the honourable mdmber mentioned a higher proportion of

:00:41.:00:42.

people from Northern Ireland have been obliged than any other part of

:00:43.:00:50.

the UK. Gas have been mobilhsed My department regularly receivds

:00:51.:00:54.

representations covering a wide range of views on defence m`tters

:00:55.:00:57.

including the replacement of the independent nuclear deterrent. Mr

:00:58.:01:03.

Speaker North Korea recentlx announced that it tested a hydrogen

:01:04.:01:07.

bomb and only yesterday boasted that it had the capacity to obliterate

:01:08.:01:12.

the United aides. To what extent does my right honourable frhend

:01:13.:01:15.

think that North Korea would be deterred in its nuclear ambhtion by

:01:16.:01:18.

the knowledge that somewherd below the surface of the East Dyn`sty and

:01:19.:01:24.

unarmed submarines was lurkhng? LAUGHTER

:01:25.:01:30.

Let me first of all stronglx condemned the nuclear test conducted

:01:31.:01:35.

by North Korea which seriously threatens regional and international

:01:36.:01:39.

security. This government, let me assure my right honourable friend,

:01:40.:01:43.

will not gamble with the long-term security of our citizens. Wd remain

:01:44.:01:47.

committed to maintaining an independent nuclear deterrent. The

:01:48.:01:51.

only thing that a nuclear stbmarines without nuclear weapons is likely to

:01:52.:01:56.

deter is anybody who cares `bout our security from ever voting l`bour

:01:57.:02:03.

again. If the UK were to go down the route of decommissioning its

:02:04.:02:09.

warheads and then in the so,called Japanese style and then werd to

:02:10.:02:14.

decide that it needed to recommence in them at some future point, is

:02:15.:02:19.

that the government assessmdnt that it could do so and remain compatible

:02:20.:02:25.

with the nonproliferation treatment? Let me make it clear that J`pan does

:02:26.:02:29.

not have nuclear powered submarines and Japan does not have nuclear

:02:30.:02:34.

weapons. Talk of some Japandse option is entirely farcical. So far

:02:35.:02:44.

as the honourable gentleman's questions concern we have no

:02:45.:02:49.

intention of decommissioning. Question 11 Mr Speaker. We `re fully

:02:50.:02:55.

committed to supporting Nigdria and its efforts to defeat Boca `round.

:02:56.:03:00.

During his visit and number the Secretary of State committed to a

:03:01.:03:02.

major increase in UK support to the Nigerian Armed Forces with the

:03:03.:03:05.

intent of war than doubling the number of British personnel deployed

:03:06.:03:10.

on training passed in the coming year. I am very grateful for the

:03:11.:03:14.

minister's response because your DJ ties between the United kingdom and

:03:15.:03:19.

Nigeria are important to our country. Can the Minister provide

:03:20.:03:21.

more detailed about what thd deployment of UK troops see

:03:22.:03:24.

anticipates the country makhng over the next 12 months? We expect us to

:03:25.:03:33.

300 military personnel to bd providing assistance over the

:03:34.:03:37.

forthcoming year. They angrx around 30 RAF personnel who have bden

:03:38.:03:40.

deployed this month to deliver worse protection and training to the Air

:03:41.:03:45.

Force and more than 35 personnel from the second Battalion, the Royal

:03:46.:03:47.

Anglican Regiment to bullying later this month to train Nigerian

:03:48.:03:53.

personnel that lead to comb`t global around. Boca around have opdrated

:03:54.:04:00.

not only Nigeria but across borders in the region. We have also seen --

:04:01.:04:08.

and Al-Qaeda affiliated. Giving your thick even in Burkina Faso over the

:04:09.:04:11.

weekend can see explain what the board is given to that country from

:04:12.:04:13.

the UK armed Forces but what that are being given up across the region

:04:14.:04:19.

into court against Islamic violence. There is a huge effort going on not

:04:20.:04:23.

just from the UK but also whth our partners. The range of things that

:04:24.:04:27.

we are doing as well as ongoing bilateral relationships to build the

:04:28.:04:32.

opacity of their own armed forces we provide a huge amount of tr`ining.

:04:33.:04:35.

Particularly on the issue of women please insecurity. And also tactical

:04:36.:04:42.

support as well. We keep all our time to review but a huge alount of

:04:43.:04:52.

work has been done. MOD housing supports serving members of the

:04:53.:04:55.

Armed Forces and their families While a margin of unoccupied

:04:56.:05:00.

properties is returned retired gas retained,... We have allocated 40

:05:01.:05:09.

million from libel finds to support projects of running better `nd

:05:10.:05:12.

accommodation including ?8.4 million to Mike Jackson house. I thhnk the

:05:13.:05:19.

minister for that response. We have a number of MOD properties currently

:05:20.:05:24.

standing vacant. Will my honourable friend agree with me to meet and

:05:25.:05:27.

discuss some of these properties and how they could potentially be used

:05:28.:05:29.

for temporary accommodation for military veterans? We do have

:05:30.:05:36.

approximately 10% of our service family accommodation unoccupied but

:05:37.:05:39.

we keep it at that level to ensure that we can cater for tripld

:05:40.:05:43.

postings and people returning from overseas. I am not convinced that

:05:44.:05:47.

the use of service accommod`tion is a sustainable way of supporting

:05:48.:05:50.

veterans however there are ` number of excellent projects around the

:05:51.:05:53.

country and I would be delighted to meet my honourable friend to discuss

:05:54.:05:56.

how we can pursue them in cold tester. -- cold tester. To the

:05:57.:06:03.

minister advised the house on the government support status for

:06:04.:06:07.

homeless veterans who have lental health double, what more can be

:06:08.:06:15.

done? We continue to providd support for veterans in particular `ny

:06:16.:06:18.

mental health area. We have invested a lot of money in recent ye`rs but

:06:19.:06:21.

we do except that the job is not done. There has been a rise of

:06:22.:06:24.

mental health problems both in society and in the armed forces and

:06:25.:06:28.

it is something that we keep under constant review and are detdrmined

:06:29.:06:36.

to tackle. Thank you Mr Spe`ker Of course it will be difficult to

:06:37.:06:41.

respond to the question, it is supporting veterans given that 0%

:06:42.:06:46.

of the MOD estate has been sold off. Also concerning is the invention of

:06:47.:06:55.

laying off 30% of civilian work force including significant job

:06:56.:06:59.

losses in defence equipment and support. At the same time, spending

:07:00.:07:09.

on outside expertise has rocketed to some 30% of the DNS budget. Does the

:07:10.:07:14.

Minister accept further lay,offs will not only drive up constltancy

:07:15.:07:22.

cost but also further exacerbate these skills shortage which the

:07:23.:07:25.

public accounts committee identified as a key reason for the increase is

:07:26.:07:30.

in the cost of military equhpment overall? I do not accept th`t and I

:07:31.:07:37.

make absolutely no apologies as a result of our SBS are to continue to

:07:38.:07:43.

optimise our defence output. -- SBS are. -- SDSR. I had a successful

:07:44.:07:55.

bilateral meeting last Frid`y of which the ever 35 programme came up.

:07:56.:08:02.

Aircraft in line with estim`tes operation capability of the bending

:08:03.:08:06.

and we reliability is improving as more aircraft come on streal and

:08:07.:08:09.

into the programme and logistic support increases. The aircraft

:08:10.:08:13.

remained on petrol to meet our initial operating capabilitx in

:08:14.:08:20.

December 20 18. Will he reassure the house that he will not ring -- bring

:08:21.:08:27.

the current fleet of tornado aircraft out of service unthl the

:08:28.:08:31.

F35 has proven it operation reliability after several ydars of

:08:32.:08:38.

active service? The outstanding air to ground capability of our tornado

:08:39.:08:42.

watch her and has been that all he migrated onto the typhoon platform.

:08:43.:08:48.

Initially, in SDSR November we figured considerable investlent in

:08:49.:08:52.

the RAF combat jet fleet including extending our tornado squadrons out

:08:53.:08:58.

of service date to 2018-19, increasing our type in fleet by two

:08:59.:09:01.

swatches and extending the typhoon out of service date to 2040. In

:09:02.:09:06.

addition we reaffirmed our commitment to acquiring a total

:09:07.:09:10.

148F35s to rely for the programme and buying more aircraft earlier so

:09:11.:09:23.

we have... My priorities ard our operations against bias which I ll

:09:24.:09:26.

be reviewing that my counterparts later this week. And implemdntation

:09:27.:09:31.

of the security defence revhew decisions to increase the shze and

:09:32.:09:34.

power of our armed forces to keep Britain's eight. -- keep Brhtain's

:09:35.:09:38.

faith. -- Dave. Can ask my right honourable friend

:09:39.:09:51.

what impact these are DJ defence and security review will have on the

:09:52.:09:55.

future size and power of our armed Forces. You may recall I serve as

:09:56.:09:59.

patron to the military prep`ration college which has bathed in my

:10:00.:10:03.

constituency of Eastbourne `nd served a keen interest in the next

:10:04.:10:07.

generation of servicemen and women. I do recall that and indeed my visit

:10:08.:10:11.

to her constituency surely before her election to the way. I lap the

:10:12.:10:15.

commitment to increase the defence budget every year is our arled for

:10:16.:10:20.

this certainty and stabilitx. We are maintaining besides of the @rmy

:10:21.:10:25.

increasing the size of the Royal Navy, the Royal Air Force and the

:10:26.:10:30.

reserves. We will have more ships, warplanes, more helicopters, more

:10:31.:10:34.

troops at readiness and better equipped special forces to protect

:10:35.:10:38.

our people, to project our hnfluence across the world and to prolote our

:10:39.:10:46.

prosperity. In the last two days, reports of the difficulties faced by

:10:47.:10:48.

veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome have reminded of how

:10:49.:10:52.

important it is that we recognise the extra Erick devices madd by our

:10:53.:10:55.

men and women in uniform. Wd must not only ensure that our service

:10:56.:10:58.

people are properly or reported but also looked after properly when they

:10:59.:11:03.

finished serving. Can the Mhnister tell the outlets are the message you

:11:04.:11:07.

think it sends that the govdrnment has chosen to freeze war pension at

:11:08.:11:10.

a time when the basic state pension is to be protected by a triple log

:11:11.:11:18.

and is set to rise by 2.9%? I think the government have actuallx got a

:11:19.:11:20.

good record when it comes to supporting veterans. We havd seen in

:11:21.:11:24.

recent years unlike the previous government major investment when it

:11:25.:11:30.

comes to mental health, vetdrans accommodation and when it comes to

:11:31.:11:34.

veterans... We have the multi million pounds invested when it

:11:35.:11:39.

comes to investing in our vdterans. Something not done under thd

:11:40.:11:41.

previous government. I am stre the Minister will know that this year we

:11:42.:11:47.

are proud to Mike the centenary of the event the boards or in ly

:11:48.:11:50.

constituency. But I invite the Minister to commend the work of

:11:51.:11:54.

Jonathan Weil and his demands regulate on the challenges they may

:11:55.:11:59.

face in next hundred years? I am able to my honourable friend for

:12:00.:12:02.

reminding the house that we do this year celebrates 100 years of the

:12:03.:12:08.

outstanding research effort which was established in response to the

:12:09.:12:11.

threat from chemical weapons during the First World War. Last wdek I

:12:12.:12:14.

reported at the house that we decided to make the STL and

:12:15.:12:19.

executive agency. I'm looking forward to visiting next month and I

:12:20.:12:24.

hope you'll be able to join me to think those who do such a f`ntastic

:12:25.:12:33.

job there. Defence missiles currently being chopped in Syria are

:12:34.:12:37.

estimated to cost in the region of ?150,000 each. With such a lassive

:12:38.:12:44.

financial commitment to the Minister as her the house that the cost of

:12:45.:12:49.

this campaign are being monhtored and that a similar financial

:12:50.:12:54.

contribution will be made towards rebuilding Syria? The honourable

:12:55.:13:02.

Lady is right to identify that assistant munitions are costly. But

:13:03.:13:07.

I can reassure her that we `re keeping a very both watch on

:13:08.:13:10.

stockpiles and ensuring that we have sufficient missiles in stock to meet

:13:11.:13:15.

our requirements. As the prhme minister has said in his hotse

:13:16.:13:18.

during the debate over Syri` is absolutely this government's intend

:13:19.:13:22.

to press for a rebuilding programme for Syria when this terribld double

:13:23.:13:27.

war comes to an end. -- terrible Civil War. The rules surrounding

:13:28.:13:34.

transportation of rifles and ammunition to make it all btt

:13:35.:13:38.

impossible for schools and the debt union to participate in particularly

:13:39.:13:42.

target rifle shooting. Will my right honourable friend meet with me and

:13:43.:13:45.

representatives of the National Rifle Association to discuss how we

:13:46.:13:48.

can get around these that whll rule and impractical and safe pl`n out? I

:13:49.:13:55.

would be delighted to meet with my mobile friend and the National Rifle

:13:56.:13:58.

Association. I should say they'll that while it is clearly a very

:13:59.:14:02.

skilled business, handling youngsters on a rifle range, we

:14:03.:14:06.

cannot find any evidence through any of these for service organizations

:14:07.:14:15.

that there is a particularlx acute shortage although there are some

:14:16.:14:18.

individual cases that have been brought to my attention but I would

:14:19.:14:20.

be delighted to have been mdeting he the just. -- he's the

:14:21.:14:25.

commando Joe's work across goals across the country placing veterans

:14:26.:14:32.

and costumes to share skills and experiences with young people

:14:33.:14:35.

despite robust evidence of the success of their work their

:14:36.:14:39.

government funding is due to end in March of this year placing the

:14:40.:14:42.

organisation in jeopardy. Whll you make representations on it `nd look

:14:43.:14:45.

at what can be done to allow this hugely important work to continue? I

:14:46.:14:50.

would be delighted to meet with the honourable gentleman to discuss this

:14:51.:14:58.

matter and the if we can pursue it. Does my right honourable frhend

:14:59.:15:03.

agree that any moves to weaken our commitment to an independent nuclear

:15:04.:15:07.

deterrent or our leading role in Nato will make us less safe?

:15:08.:15:13.

Absolutely. Our independent nuclear deterrent is the ultimate e`r and

:15:14.:15:18.

Nato's security and necessary insurance in an increasinglx

:15:19.:15:25.

dangerous and uncertain world. Our can conventional nuclear

:15:26.:15:27.

capabilities underwritten bx our commitment to spend 2% of GDP on

:15:28.:15:32.

defence support our leading role in Nato which remained at the heart of

:15:33.:15:35.

our. This government will not put our security at risk. The armed

:15:36.:15:42.

forces are facing here is SNL shortages in some of the most

:15:43.:15:45.

crucial nationalist trade including nuclear engineers and white

:15:46.:15:49.

technicians. Given that a great deal of the expertise is in MOD civilian

:15:50.:15:54.

workforce, which the governlent is planning to cut by 30%, can the and

:15:55.:16:00.

how the government plans to ensure that operational capabilitids are

:16:01.:16:05.

protected when the pets go `head? For particular point in trade there

:16:06.:16:11.

are particular programmes that are ongoing to ensure that we rdtained

:16:12.:16:19.

people but we also recruit. Those training people are offering

:16:20.:16:22.

apprenticeships but also allowing people to move in from the private

:16:23.:16:25.

sector. Those principles ard well established, we are going to also be

:16:26.:16:29.

introducing into our worth hs more flexible working patterns to allow

:16:30.:16:34.

more of that to happen and `llow people to move from regular to

:16:35.:16:40.

reserve forces into civilian contacts and then back into the

:16:41.:16:42.

Armed Forces. This is very luch the direction of travel and for each

:16:43.:16:46.

trade there is a particular plan which is going very well. In fact I

:16:47.:16:50.

think this month we have st`rted recruiting apprenticeships hnto

:16:51.:16:55.

nuclear engineering 35 have started this month alone. Could be secretary

:16:56.:17:02.

of state explain was that the MOD is taking to release their blessed land

:17:03.:17:06.

for housing and could he also explained what progress the MOD has

:17:07.:17:10.

made in selling or renting the control centre in water beach? As

:17:11.:17:16.

part of the government prosperity of gendered the MOD is omitted to

:17:17.:17:21.

really demand for 55,000 hotsing units in this Parliament. I am

:17:22.:17:24.

delighted to announce the fhrst block size which will contrhbute

:17:25.:17:30.

some ?500 million of land rdceived will be reinvested into defdnce and

:17:31.:17:35.

more than -- provide more than 15,000 potential housing unhts. I

:17:36.:17:39.

will place a full list of shtes in the library of the house and I had

:17:40.:17:42.

written to be an view concerned I've had to be in a position before

:17:43.:17:45.

the end of the year to provhde further details including a full

:17:46.:17:49.

list of sites effective. With regard to my honourable friend own

:17:50.:17:52.

constituency I confirm that the whole of that site has now been

:17:53.:17:55.

transferred to our civilian delivery partner.

:17:56.:18:00.

Does the Secretary of State have any more concerns about the arms in

:18:01.:18:07.

Saudi Arabia giving its ratds and the fact that it has been documented

:18:08.:18:11.

by Amnesty International by others that is a clear risk of UK `rms

:18:12.:18:18.

being used to read... The United Kingdom has some of the strhctest

:18:19.:18:23.

arms export criteria in the world. We are obviously concerned that were

:18:24.:18:27.

any of our arms are exported to their use should be in full

:18:28.:18:33.

compliance with internation`l humanitarian law and that is

:18:34.:18:35.

something I discussed regul`rly with my counterpart the deputy crown

:18:36.:18:40.

prince, the defense minister of Saudi Arabia and my other

:18:41.:18:44.

colleagues. My right honour`ble friend inform what support they are

:18:45.:18:54.

offering veterans making cl`ims for what happened during the Ir`q war?

:18:55.:19:04.

Let me make it clear to My Noble friend that we take it seriously our

:19:05.:19:09.

duty to provide support for the balloon may be facing proceddings

:19:10.:19:12.

arising from the past service would pay for independent legal advice in

:19:13.:19:18.

all such cases. I am extrem` concerned that the number of claims

:19:19.:19:23.

now being brought on an indtstrial scale and we are considering steps

:19:24.:19:26.

to stem the outflow with options including restricting legal aid

:19:27.:19:31.

limiting the time in which claims can be brought in limiting the

:19:32.:19:35.

territorial advocation of the rights that those claims are in. I'm

:19:36.:19:43.

convinced that Trident has ` crucial role to play in the defense of our

:19:44.:19:49.

country. The economic aspects are important as well and there are a

:19:50.:19:52.

huge number of workers in otr country waiting with some anxiety to

:19:53.:19:56.

see whether or not Parliament is prepared to pick a final approval

:19:57.:20:02.

for success the programme. @nd I asked was suggested to give an

:20:03.:20:05.

assurance that he will not `llow any unnecessary debate to get in the way

:20:06.:20:09.

of the need to bring the mahn gate proposals to the floor of hhs house

:20:10.:20:16.

for debate in the decision? I give the honourable Lady the asstrance

:20:17.:20:24.

she seeks. It takes more th`n ten years to build one of the stbmarines

:20:25.:20:27.

and we need to get on and rdplace the existing boats that will be

:20:28.:20:33.

obsolescent towards the end of the 20 20s we have set out our

:20:34.:20:37.

commitment in the strategic review at the end of November to rdplace

:20:38.:20:42.

all four bodes and I hope it will not be too long before Kruglan is

:20:43.:20:48.

asked to endorse that commitment. -- boats. -- Parliament. Despite the

:20:49.:20:56.

obvious differences with Russia over Crimea and the Ukraine will the

:20:57.:20:58.

Secretary of State give asstrance that he would redouble efforts to

:20:59.:21:02.

engage with his Russian counterparts on fighting collaboratively against

:21:03.:21:09.

Daesh and Syria? I do not h`ve to tell my... I am not currently

:21:10.:21:12.

engaged in any discussions with my Russian counterpart. The illegal

:21:13.:21:18.

annexation of Crimea and 2004 and Russia's continuing support to

:21:19.:21:24.

separatist in eastern Ukraine do not allow a return to normal engagement.

:21:25.:21:30.

However, in the interest of air and maritime safety, I have authorized

:21:31.:21:34.

MOD officials to undertake limited military to military engagelent with

:21:35.:21:40.

the Russians to ensure that our own airspace is properly protected. ...

:21:41.:21:55.

Also Chauveau Forge Masters, the Secretary of State said the

:21:56.:21:58.

government position is to maintain... Will be used in British

:21:59.:22:06.

filled? The honourable gentleman will be interested in a statement

:22:07.:22:08.

that immediately follows thdse questions in relation to wh`t the

:22:09.:22:14.

government majors are making in British steel. We are keen to ensure

:22:15.:22:17.

that British manufacturers have an opportunity to compete for defense

:22:18.:22:22.

contracts with significant steel components and they'll be continuing

:22:23.:22:27.

to be the case. On Thursday have a great pleasure to company mx

:22:28.:22:34.

visiting the defense support decision... Man salute this

:22:35.:22:39.

innovation by my honourable friend who is doing fantastic work and

:22:40.:22:43.

assessing Britain's defense need and as well as assessing the technology

:22:44.:22:50.

opportunities. May ask my honourable friend to give continuing thought to

:22:51.:22:55.

the effort of the high-altitude record-holder which fantasthc

:22:56.:23:00.

surveillance... In which my great friend and late friend was ` part

:23:01.:23:10.

of. I'm very grateful to my honourable friend for giving me the

:23:11.:23:15.

credit for establishing the defense solution center it would only be

:23:16.:23:19.

fair to the House into my ftture career if I placed the credht where

:23:20.:23:23.

it is properly due at the fdet of my right honourable friend the

:23:24.:23:27.

Secretary of State and his former role. I did enjoyed our visht to the

:23:28.:23:35.

DFC, bait are doing a great job to place UK innovation of the heart of

:23:36.:23:38.

the defense industrial supply chain globally endangered he would have

:23:39.:23:42.

noted that in the STS are wd did make reference to investing in a

:23:43.:23:47.

unique British capability for advanced surveillance was I know

:23:48.:23:55.

will interest him. -- which I know. The placement of the nuclear weapon

:23:56.:23:59.

system, how much does the government think that will cost? As to make

:24:00.:24:12.

crystal clear in the -- SCSR we recalculated the cost which we

:24:13.:24:18.

estimated at ?31 billion and added a ?10 billion in to that. We have no

:24:19.:24:22.

intention at this point to replace the warhead, a decision on that will

:24:23.:24:28.

be taken later. Therefore, higher to the honourable gentleman to focus on

:24:29.:24:34.

the 31 billion MMU plus the 10 billion commitment as the cost that

:24:35.:24:41.

is relevant today. The Minister of State for small business industry

:24:42.:24:52.

and enterprise. Minister of State. Mr Speaker, it is with regrdt that I

:24:53.:24:56.

find myself having to updatd the House on further job losses in the

:24:57.:25:00.

steel sector. This morning Tartarus still announced plans to make over

:25:01.:25:07.

1000 redundancies as part of their continuing restructuring pl`n. The

:25:08.:25:15.

proposals involve 750 job losses, 200 redundancies and support

:25:16.:25:20.

functions at another location. Tarter have also announced with

:25:21.:25:26.

Hunter redundancies at steel mills in three other places. This is a

:25:27.:25:29.

difficult time for all workdrs and their families, our thoughts must be

:25:30.:25:33.

with them. By immediate focts will be on helping any workers who lose

:25:34.:25:37.

their jobs back into employlent as quickly as possible. We also

:25:38.:25:40.

continue to support the stedl industry. Given the United Kingdom's

:25:41.:25:45.

dilution settlement, much of the support that can be offered to

:25:46.:25:49.

workers and Tarter in south walls will come from the Welsh government.

:25:50.:25:54.

The United Kingdom government wants Internet Port Talbot has a

:25:55.:25:58.

commercial and a sustainabld future, encouraging the Welsh government to

:25:59.:26:02.

large task force this week, they meet on Wednesday for the fhrst time

:26:03.:26:05.

to support those affected bx today's announcement. We offer our support

:26:06.:26:10.

to the task force chair and we will continue to work with the Wdlsh

:26:11.:26:14.

government going forward. I therefore welcome the commitment by

:26:15.:26:18.

the First Minister made tod`y to work posted with the United Kingdom

:26:19.:26:22.

government and I am confident that they will see to our request that we

:26:23.:26:30.

are a full part in that task force. I can assure members that wd are

:26:31.:26:33.

also working closely with the Secretary of State for Wales, that

:26:34.:26:38.

is where he is today which hs why he is not here in the House. Mr

:26:39.:26:41.

Speaker, it is important to remember that the fundamental problels facing

:26:42.:26:45.

our steel industry are as follows. It is the fault of the world is

:26:46.:26:50.

caused by the overproduction and under consumption of steel, we know

:26:51.:26:55.

that the price for slab is `lmost half in the last 12 months. We also

:26:56.:27:00.

know that Tarter have been losing ?1 million a day as a result of this

:27:01.:27:07.

slump in the steel prices. @lthough the industry has asked for hs a

:27:08.:27:13.

level playing field and that is what we are achieving. I can inform the

:27:14.:27:18.

House that the government h`s been working closely with Tarter to do

:27:19.:27:24.

all we can to reassure a sustainable future for it in the United Kingdom,

:27:25.:27:33.

app or top... It is encouraging that they have announced capital as the

:27:34.:27:41.

preferred bidder. We remain in contact with them. The government

:27:42.:27:44.

stands ready to play our part in helping secure the long-terl future.

:27:45.:27:50.

Returning to today's announcement, the same offer is there Port Talbot.

:27:51.:27:55.

Tarter are working with consultants to develop a plan to address the

:27:56.:27:59.

competitiveness of its business at Port output. We in the Welsh

:28:00.:28:03.

government are in regular dhalogue with them. This dialog incltdes my

:28:04.:28:07.

right honourable friend the Secretary of State for business as

:28:08.:28:11.

well is my official and mysdlf. On the future Port Talbot must be

:28:12.:28:17.

commercially led will help where we can. Mr Speaker, I want to lake it

:28:18.:28:22.

absolutely clear that we ard unequivocal, steel is a vit`l

:28:23.:28:25.

industry this government is determined to make sure that steel

:28:26.:28:34.

is produced, not just that ... And that has a sustainable future. We

:28:35.:28:40.

are creating the level playhng field that the industry has asked of us.

:28:41.:28:44.

They set out five ask when we had are still some inactive end of last

:28:45.:28:54.

year. -- our steel summit. @pproval to pay for the conversation to

:28:55.:28:57.

energy intensive instruments that include steel, to include rdnewable

:28:58.:29:01.

policy cost we have party p`id around ?60 million to the steel

:29:02.:29:04.

industry to help litigate the cost of existing policies. The ndw state

:29:05.:29:09.

approval will not enable us to us extend the scope of compens`tion.

:29:10.:29:15.

Enabling steel and other industry intensive industries to apply. I

:29:16.:29:20.

will save the still industrx about ?100 million over the financial

:29:21.:29:27.

year. Roughly 30% of their dnergy bills. Mr Speaker we will go

:29:28.:29:32.

further, exempt EI eyes frol most of these costs, support for thdse

:29:33.:29:35.

industries will save them htndreds of millions of pounds over the next

:29:36.:29:48.

five years -- EIIs. ... The Environment Agency have accdpted

:29:49.:29:52.

Tarter steel Pozo for deleg`tion for improving, subject with

:29:53.:29:57.

consultation. Once approval will give them a further six years to

:29:58.:30:04.

improve emission levels, power plants have been in included in the

:30:05.:30:08.

national plan which the UK has submitted to the European Union

:30:09.:30:13.

This implemented until June 202 further four years to meet the

:30:14.:30:16.

initial requirements, these actions will save the industry millhons of

:30:17.:30:20.

pounds. We have also published and further updated the permit guidance.

:30:21.:30:30.

Specific and properly so about procurement. We have issued new

:30:31.:30:35.

guidance we are the first country in the European Union to take `dvantage

:30:36.:30:38.

of them and implement these new flexibilities. Social impacts, job

:30:39.:30:42.

impact, staff safety have not been taken into account. In short, there

:30:43.:30:48.

is no excuse not to and every reason to, by British steel. I want to make

:30:49.:30:56.

it clear and put it on the record that if those procurement roles

:30:57.:31:04.

include alimony am. I have been heard it said that the government

:31:05.:31:07.

has blocked the trade investigation and they have not. The government

:31:08.:31:13.

has been acting decisively to safeguard the United Kingdol's steel

:31:14.:31:17.

industry. In July and again in November of last year we voted in

:31:18.:31:21.

favor of anti-dumping measures on certain steel imports. It w`s the

:31:22.:31:28.

United Kingdom that lobbied successfully in support of hndustry

:31:29.:31:31.

calls for an investigation hnto imports of reinforcing steel, I hope

:31:32.:31:36.

we will have an announcement soon on the result of those actions that

:31:37.:31:40.

have been led by the excelldnt leadership of the Secretary of State

:31:41.:31:43.

for business. The European Commission has taken this forward

:31:44.:31:46.

swiftly including responding quickly to industry request to register

:31:47.:31:52.

import, it was the United Khngdom who secured an extraordinarx meeting

:31:53.:31:55.

at the EU competitive Counchl and agreed fast action. They ard

:31:56.:32:02.

returning to follow up at a conference next month. The review on

:32:03.:32:05.

business rates will concludd this year, the Welsh government has a

:32:06.:32:13.

responsibility for business rates at Port Hopwood and other parts in

:32:14.:32:18.

Wells. -- Port Tolbert. It seems that the steel industry rem`ins

:32:19.:32:24.

under pressure, the immediate causes of these are beyond the govdrnments

:32:25.:32:28.

control. I can assure the House that we will continue to do all we can to

:32:29.:32:33.

help this industry and we whll stand by all of those workers who face

:32:34.:32:36.

redundancy in South Wells and other parts of the United Kingdom. It is

:32:37.:32:47.

welcome at the government h`s come to this house to make a statement on

:32:48.:32:54.

steel. By urging questions on this side of the House, it is

:32:55.:32:58.

disappointing given the serhousness of this issue that the Secrdtary of

:32:59.:33:01.

State does not seem to fit to make this statement himself. Howdver I

:33:02.:33:06.

do welcome the honourable L`dy to her place. I welcome the ministers

:33:07.:33:11.

intention to work closely whth the Welsh government to mitigatd the

:33:12.:33:15.

effects of these job losses on local communities, especially I wdlcome

:33:16.:33:20.

the Corporation on business rates. There has been no action taken on by

:33:21.:33:24.

this government on business rates in England. Tarter's announcemdnt of

:33:25.:33:34.

1050 job losses across Port Talbot is devastating news for all of the

:33:35.:33:37.

workers, their families and the close-knit communities who `re

:33:38.:33:41.

affected. Our hearts, Mr Spdaker, go out to them. This latest bolbshell

:33:42.:33:47.

comes on to job losses at their Newport win last year along with

:33:48.:33:54.

thousands of job losses across the sector including a complete closure.

:33:55.:34:01.

Mr Speaker, always seem to give him his government is one word, but very

:34:02.:34:06.

little concrete action. -- this government. In the three months

:34:07.:34:13.

since the emergency steel stmmit, only one of the things have been

:34:14.:34:17.

delivered. What think that steel is the foundation of many of the UK's

:34:18.:34:21.

important sectors. Including automotive, Eric and constrtction.

:34:22.:34:24.

-- Aaron. The government has been splht back

:34:25.:34:34.

to well, they have not been tough enough with the Chinese are active

:34:35.:34:38.

enough with the European Unhon. They have made no concessions on the

:34:39.:34:41.

business rates systems which penalizes those who invest hn

:34:42.:34:46.

expensive infrastructure to improve productivity. There is no shgn that

:34:47.:34:50.

the technical change to procurement roles is making any difference in

:34:51.:34:56.

the government contracts to help our domestic industry. Mr Speakdr, when

:34:57.:35:00.

are we going to get effective action from his government and not just one

:35:01.:35:06.

words? Countries like China are engaging in uncompetitive practices

:35:07.:35:12.

that are destroying our stedl industry. We have raised it with the

:35:13.:35:22.

Chinese at subsequent meetings. The slow response in the EU to the

:35:23.:35:28.

synonymy of Chinese steel... I make this point in no uncertain terms I

:35:29.:35:34.

was meeting with representatives last week. They need to takd action

:35:35.:35:39.

now and at this government should be leading the charge to reforl EU

:35:40.:35:42.

trade defense instruments, they re actually resisting reform to speed

:35:43.:35:49.

them up. Mr Speaker this cotntry desperately needs an industrial

:35:50.:35:52.

strategy so that our steel hndustry can survive and thrive. The kids

:35:53.:35:56.

were once declared that Britain will be carried aloft on the march..

:35:57.:36:04.

Five years on, there was a gap between his rhetoric and thd great

:36:05.:36:08.

reality. Many factoring exports have slumped in manufacturing output is

:36:09.:36:11.

still below its level of seven years ago. Mr Speaker on the deficit that,

:36:12.:36:19.

the Chancellor has built evdry test he set himself. There is no

:36:20.:36:25.

substantial industrial strategy insight, is there any wonder we have

:36:26.:36:33.

a Business Secretary would not even let the words crossed his lhps.

:36:34.:36:36.

Because the government will not deliver what the creating an

:36:37.:36:39.

advisory board of experts and business industries and trade unions

:36:40.:36:44.

to lead work on the developlent of a proper industrial strategy for the

:36:45.:36:50.

UK. Mr Speaker, with the Minister not tell us what size is stdel

:36:51.:36:55.

industry in the UK that she required as sustainable? When will the

:36:56.:37:01.

government start cozying up to China and confront their cheap stdel on

:37:02.:37:07.

the UK market. With the Minhster assured his house that the puestion

:37:08.:37:12.

of market economy status in China will not be resolved until they stop

:37:13.:37:17.

dumping cheap steel in the TK Woods can the House of his governlent is

:37:18.:37:24.

blocking the modernization of EU trade defense instruments which

:37:25.:37:26.

would do with unfair trade before such damage is done to our domestic

:37:27.:37:33.

producers? Water was welcomd progress in the UK State application

:37:34.:37:38.

on the renewable, can the Mhnister confirm that until approval for its

:37:39.:37:43.

second application is received it leaves some companies and the steel

:37:44.:37:49.

and other sectors with out `ccess to much-needed composition is still

:37:50.:37:52.

exposed to some 70% of plandt change policy cuts. When will therd be any

:37:53.:37:57.

progress on business rates which penalize new investments to increase

:37:58.:38:02.

productivity. When, in short, as the government finally going to turn his

:38:03.:38:07.

warm words into a real and trgent action to save our steel industry? I

:38:08.:38:14.

am very sorry that the honotrable Lady did not listen to what I said.

:38:15.:38:22.

While we are dealing... I do not issue has been dealing in f`ct, can

:38:23.:38:26.

I remind the House that the number of people in 1998 that workdd in the

:38:27.:38:32.

British steel industry was some 68000 and by 2010 the number had

:38:33.:38:41.

fallen to dirty 3000 and by 201 it risen by 30 5000. I do not think it

:38:42.:38:53.

is right for the members opposite to lecture us. Well I will contend in

:38:54.:38:55.

the last few months we have done more to support it then the last

:38:56.:39:01.

parliament in 13 years. I do not think it helps anybody in m`king

:39:02.:39:11.

cheap political points. It hs so tempting not to when you he`r such

:39:12.:39:14.

palpable nonsense coming from the party opposite. Mr Speaker, the

:39:15.:39:20.

steel industry including thd union makes five ask of us. Energx costs,

:39:21.:39:26.

delivered. Industrial omisshons delivered. Procurement, delhvered.

:39:27.:39:37.

Dumping, delivered. Mr Speaker, in July we for the first time voted to

:39:38.:39:43.

protect our steel industry. Such was the surprise of other peopld sitting

:39:44.:39:48.

around the table. The offichals from the EU went back to the United

:39:49.:39:52.

Kingdom delegation to check if they heard correctly. Because never

:39:53.:39:57.

before had we voted to protdct our steel industry as we did in July. We

:39:58.:40:03.

have it again in November and we have supported rebar, we have

:40:04.:40:08.

delivered on that. The only thing, Mr Speaker, I have to confess

:40:09.:40:11.

because I like to be honest is on business rates. The deal is

:40:12.:40:16.

continuing, I hope come that time of the reviews, when it is finhshed

:40:17.:40:20.

that the Chancellor will be able to save the can help all of those who

:40:21.:40:26.

invest in plant and machinery so they do not get penalized whth

:40:27.:40:31.

higher rates of their busindss rates, which does seem rathdr

:40:32.:40:34.

perverse. Those arguments, those discussions are continuing. I would

:40:35.:40:39.

suggest that we have done a very good job in protecting our steel

:40:40.:40:43.

industry and will continue to do so. We are not a party that does have a

:40:44.:40:48.

pop lit incense at a meeting. This is a government that delivers and

:40:49.:40:55.

meets the demands asked. I will do with the issue of China quickly and

:40:56.:40:58.

the allegation that somehow we have been cozying up. The Prime Linister

:40:59.:41:05.

has been frank with the president when he came over. In relathon to

:41:06.:41:09.

him he asked this is a decision that will be made by the European Union

:41:10.:41:13.

and it is a very good argumdnt that we would want China to have market

:41:14.:41:18.

status. We also made it verx clear that if you want to be a part of the

:41:19.:41:22.

game then you have to play by the rolls. That seems a very sensible

:41:23.:41:28.

approach if I do say so mysdlf. -- rules. People were very concerned to

:41:29.:41:34.

hear the news of job losses in my constituency. I will do everything I

:41:35.:41:39.

possibly can to help those `ffected. One question I do have relates to

:41:40.:41:44.

the issue of Chinese dumping. What steps are the Minister taking to

:41:45.:41:47.

apply pressure on the Europdan Union to take the strongest possible line

:41:48.:41:53.

with the Chinese and also to make sure that these dumping

:41:54.:41:58.

investigations are expedited? For the first time in July and then

:41:59.:42:01.

again in November we took that action, the Secretary of St`te of

:42:02.:42:07.

this emergency meeting to ptt pressure on the European Unhon. We

:42:08.:42:10.

arty seen a very big change in the way that they're operating to the

:42:11.:42:18.

dumping. It is not just the a Chinese issue. One rebar we have

:42:19.:42:21.

seen then taking action in ` way that has not been seen before and as

:42:22.:42:25.

a direct result of the work being done by this government objdct our

:42:26.:42:37.

steel industry. These redundancies are terribly sad. I would s`y from

:42:38.:42:47.

our part, solidarity and thoughts are with all of those who f`ce an

:42:48.:42:52.

uncertain future. I will, hd she said on procurement on the fact that

:42:53.:42:59.

we have been exceptionally difficult environment for steel production.

:43:00.:43:06.

Partly driven by ?645 million of excess supply this year. Chhnese

:43:07.:43:10.

steel exports are alone are likely to exceed 100 million comes along.

:43:11.:43:22.

Can ask the Secretary of St`te to press for fast tracking of the

:43:23.:43:26.

investigation into Chinese steel exports. All of the governmdnts must

:43:27.:43:31.

support with the communities affected by all of these

:43:32.:43:37.

announcements... And the prhmary focuses on maintaining a vi`ble

:43:38.:43:42.

future. I understand they'rd serious interest. Can ask the UK Government

:43:43.:43:47.

to be as positive and forthcoming as possible within the rules that apply

:43:48.:43:52.

in support of any viable buxers for any of the plans. Can I ask two

:43:53.:43:58.

specific questions. She said a number of things which I welcome.

:43:59.:44:02.

Can ask the department to kdep it under close review, to make sure

:44:03.:44:09.

should this be insufficient additional help can be provhded

:44:10.:44:15.

that it estimate the earliest opportunity. This steel indtstry is

:44:16.:44:24.

vitally important menu has suffered from the absence, over decades, of

:44:25.:44:30.

an industrial strategy. We discussed this in the debate last week. Can I

:44:31.:44:36.

ask the Minister to bring forward or have the government bring for it at

:44:37.:44:40.

the earliest opportunity a credible coherent industrial and export

:44:41.:44:45.

strategy, which is centered on steel? Absolutely. It has bden a

:44:46.:45:02.

pleasure to work with him. H fully back all efforts. I hope very much

:45:03.:45:09.

that a buyer can be found in any support that can be given whll be

:45:10.:45:13.

given by the UK Government. He makes a good point about energy costs as

:45:14.:45:18.

he knows state aid rules ard strict when it comes to any support. When

:45:19.:45:25.

he talks about the future, what I would say is this, one of the things

:45:26.:45:30.

we have done that has never been done before, we have looked at all

:45:31.:45:35.

of the huge infrastructure projects we are putting together. Thd huge

:45:36.:45:41.

cost to the taxpayer, and wd have assessed the need, ... If I can use

:45:42.:45:56.

that expression down the tr`ck about the sort of work we are doing as

:45:57.:46:00.

government investing in our infrastructure. The steel

:46:01.:46:06.

requirement in putting that to the industry, it is our intention, I may

:46:07.:46:09.

sound emotional, but we are determined that the steel that is

:46:10.:46:17.

used will be made in this country. We also want to ensure that there

:46:18.:46:26.

are liens and South Wales. ,- plans. And we are working towards that

:46:27.:46:40.

She has such changes in European law and rules that she can actu`lly

:46:41.:46:47.

specify that all railway stdel and construction steel is paid for by

:46:48.:46:50.

Britain will be British. Th`t is what I want. I am amazed at the

:46:51.:46:57.

honourable gentleman would take such a view. What matters most of all, we

:46:58.:47:06.

are good friends, we agree on many things. The most important point is

:47:07.:47:09.

this is that we have changed Ings and we aren't the first of `ny

:47:10.:47:16.

country in EU to do this. -, we are the first. There is no excuse for it

:47:17.:47:22.

not to include absolute buyhng the British steel and indeed other

:47:23.:47:24.

metals. I can assure the minister, the

:47:25.:47:36.

people of my constituency are listening carefully to what is being

:47:37.:47:40.

said today. I can also ensure that there is a palpable sense of anger

:47:41.:47:45.

and frustration amongst my constituents. Acclaimed acthon on

:47:46.:47:48.

energy is still not implemented Lame action on procurement `mounts

:47:49.:47:55.

to so-called advertising whhle there's still no British stdel. The

:47:56.:47:59.

government uses the EU as an excuse to delay while being China's chief

:48:00.:48:03.

cheerleader in Europe. Is it not clear that to the minister trgent

:48:04.:48:08.

action to sustain a steel industry here is the matter of the hhghest

:48:09.:48:13.

national priority? No more dxcuses, no more dodges or delays. Whll the

:48:14.:48:17.

government confirmed here and now that they will not support larket

:48:18.:48:25.

economy status for China? Whll the government established a strong

:48:26.:48:29.

long-term steel strategy with Mac top of steel and the union? If they

:48:30.:48:33.

do that there is a feature hf not there is a wasteland. It is all

:48:34.:48:39.

about all of those men and their families and women and their

:48:40.:48:45.

families who work in the Tata Steel. That is what this is about today and

:48:46.:48:50.

our thoughts are with them. I had pictured you to some of the work of

:48:51.:48:56.

the honourable to have done and I hope that we can continue the

:48:57.:48:58.

discussion because there is much that can be done. Can I just say to

:48:59.:49:02.

the honourable gentleman it would really help if we all work together

:49:03.:49:09.

on that. We all agree... I will not say that about China and MES at all.

:49:10.:49:13.

There is a good argument th`t they should have been dated that advice

:49:14.:49:19.

they -- have at this status, but as I say they have to show as that if

:49:20.:49:23.

they are in the game they h`ve to play by the rules and it will be

:49:24.:49:27.

where the EU to look at all the evidence before it makes its

:49:28.:49:36.

decision on that. Chinese steel manufacturers are offering `dded

:49:37.:49:40.

value services such as steel polishing and finishing fred of

:49:41.:49:45.

charge, making the UK steel industry business is less competitivd. Can my

:49:46.:49:48.

right honourable friend outline what steps the government are taking to

:49:49.:49:52.

support UK business is offering the added value services? I strongly

:49:53.:49:57.

suspect Mr Speaker it is quhte a long list to what I will undertake

:49:58.:50:01.

to do is to write to the honourable lady in full with exactly the sort

:50:02.:50:06.

of detail that she wants. It is a government that absolutely get and

:50:07.:50:09.

understands business and we British business wherever it may be. Job

:50:10.:50:18.

losses announced today are huge blow to communities across South Wales

:50:19.:50:23.

with workers in my constitudncy also directly affected as well as those

:50:24.:50:29.

workers import Talbot where the mill was not bald last year. We `re

:50:30.:50:34.

thinking of them today. I know steel workers make huge sacrifices over

:50:35.:50:36.

the years and have done everything they can to help the companx during

:50:37.:50:41.

particularly tough times. C`n the government and on heart say they

:50:42.:50:44.

have done the same because despite what the minister said todax

:50:45.:50:46.

industry and union they acthon has been far too slow. I am in danger of

:50:47.:50:53.

repeating all the things I've been about what we have done but what I

:50:54.:50:56.

will do and agree with the honourable lady on is that we do not

:50:57.:51:00.

forget the eight huge impact in upset and it follows mothballing

:51:01.:51:06.

last summer. What I will do is play huge -- what I will do is p`y a huge

:51:07.:51:10.

tribute to all those working in the steel industry. They are all highly

:51:11.:51:13.

skilled and prized workers. I know that for many reasons that H am

:51:14.:51:17.

always reminded of my visit to red car and all that workforce that

:51:18.:51:22.

worked at as as eye. These `re highly skilled people and fhnally Mr

:51:23.:51:27.

Speaker -- as as I. The onlx thing say if there is note debate, a large

:51:28.:51:32.

number of steelworkers have made considerable that devices btt when I

:51:33.:51:37.

went to Hamburg and met a group of workers bear represented be`utifully

:51:38.:51:40.

and brilliantly by an excellent trade union leader, was strhking

:51:41.:51:48.

that these were men and womdn who had absolutely taken pay cuts, had

:51:49.:51:54.

made the ultimate sacrifice of so this is a very sad day and ht is not

:51:55.:51:58.

lost on us but we are deterlined Bastille will continue to bd

:51:59.:52:01.

produced in South Wales and in Scunthorpe. As one was brought up in

:52:02.:52:11.

Sheffield, will the Minister accept that the deadly combination of EU

:52:12.:52:20.

energy law, EU subsidy Law `nd EU dumping law means that the

:52:21.:52:24.

government may want to achidve a solution to this problem but

:52:25.:52:27.

actually ultimately it cannot do so without leaving the European Union?

:52:28.:52:34.

Here is a surprise but I do not agree with the honourable

:52:35.:52:38.

gentleman's analysis. Nor indeed his conclusions. If I may say, when the

:52:39.:52:43.

secretary of state went over to Brussels and led the charge, both he

:52:44.:52:48.

and I through conversations I had with my equivalent ministers

:52:49.:52:51.

throughout the EU actually H think we have all come together and I

:52:52.:52:55.

think by working together wd can ensure not just the future of the

:52:56.:52:58.

steel industry in our country but throughout the European Union. The

:52:59.:53:03.

minister has just invited us to believe that Europe offers `n

:53:04.:53:07.

equivalent to her. There yot are. You learn something new every day.

:53:08.:53:13.

Landlord was mentioned so ldt's hear from the fellow. -- gunned the

:53:14.:53:29.

of will she confirmed that when the foreign secondary state at that

:53:30.:53:37.

dispatch box and said that the government would judge markdt

:53:38.:53:40.

economy status through the prism of steel that there would be no drawing

:53:41.:53:46.

back from that position? I `lways try to be honest and helpful to the

:53:47.:53:50.

honourable Benjamin. I did not hear that from him but I will take that

:53:51.:53:53.

up with them. I can assure him of that. As he also knows we are

:53:54.:53:55.

working very hard to security feature of the blast earnings that

:53:56.:54:00.

have come to her because as I say we are determined that British steel is

:54:01.:54:05.

still continuing to be made in this country and it has a sustainable

:54:06.:54:12.

future. Today's announcement will be a bit of a blow to all commtnities

:54:13.:54:18.

with relations between the tnions and Tata Steel management h`ve been

:54:19.:54:20.

excellent. My right honourable friend mentioned that the government

:54:21.:54:24.

will be participating in thd task force be assembled to adjust this

:54:25.:54:29.

issue. Can GE confirm in particular that the Department for work and

:54:30.:54:32.

pensions will be heavily involved so as to ensure that all possible those

:54:33.:54:39.

are affected by redundancy will be reemployed? I completely agree with

:54:40.:54:43.

his analysis of the effect throughout South Wales. It hs not

:54:44.:54:47.

just the workers who face rddundancy when we know it had a huge hmpact on

:54:48.:54:52.

the economy locally. Right there the supply chains. Absolutely I can get

:54:53.:54:56.

him the assurance that we whll be working with the DWP in these

:54:57.:55:00.

circumstances. They do then and almost emergency teams that start

:55:01.:55:05.

the work. Now before any colpulsory redundancies are made. That work

:55:06.:55:08.

will be done because it is being done. The minister did own tp to the

:55:09.:55:20.

failure to implement reform of business rates as part of the is

:55:21.:55:27.

confronted by the steel indtstry. Can the Minister examined and give

:55:28.:55:36.

assurances that in advance of the business rate proposal coming next

:55:37.:55:39.

year that they will look at putting a special package in ways to give

:55:40.:55:43.

some relief to this beleagudred industry? I did not say that we had

:55:44.:55:51.

failed because we have a review going on and it has not comd to a

:55:52.:55:54.

conclusion. What the honour`ble gentleman must remember is that in

:55:55.:55:59.

whale be matter of business rate is devolved so it is up to the Wells

:56:00.:56:02.

government if they want to do anything or can do anything to is

:56:03.:56:07.

that Tata Steel there. The dditing that had absolutely to be s`id is

:56:08.:56:11.

that yes of course we will do everything we can to support our

:56:12.:56:14.

steel industry but always whthin the unfortunate confines of the state

:56:15.:56:21.

aid will. -- eight aid rules. I do not impede minister answered the

:56:22.:56:27.

horrible friend she said shd just a agreed with them. It seems to me why

:56:28.:56:32.

clear that if we were not in the European Union we could havd at it

:56:33.:56:35.

differently and quicker. Wotld see at least agree with that? I do not

:56:36.:56:40.

agree with that at all. I think we are better within a reformed

:56:41.:56:44.

European Union. This is a vdry good example of the benefits of our

:56:45.:56:49.

attending membership with the EU. -- continuing membership. What

:56:50.:56:58.

consideration has the UK government made for employer national hnsurance

:56:59.:57:02.

contributions to help with employment cost with? It sedms that

:57:03.:57:11.

if the conversation I am more than likely to have with the right

:57:12.:57:14.

honourable Donovan. I am more than happy to discuss that with him -

:57:15.:57:21.

right honourable gentleman. Following the collapse of the cup

:57:22.:57:27.

are all group PWC administr`tors have been able to salvage a

:57:28.:57:30.

considerable amount of the business securing local jobs including in my

:57:31.:57:33.

constituency. Not with ending the accident she had taken on issues to

:57:34.:57:40.

do with steel which he agred with me that you questions need to be

:57:41.:57:42.

answered about the financial management to the go borrow group

:57:43.:57:48.

which led to its collapse in the first place. I do not know but I am

:57:49.:57:53.

more than happy to have that discussion because if it is right

:57:54.:57:58.

that is a very serious mattdr. The people of the the site are still

:57:59.:58:07.

dealing with the ... They'll be sending their solidarity and

:58:08.:58:10.

thoughts to the people of work Tolbert and other areas that lost

:58:11.:58:16.

their jobs as well in the l`st two days. The minister still refused

:58:17.:58:21.

today to acknowledge the impact that the market economy status of China

:58:22.:58:26.

will give. This will be trading future of British steel makhng

:58:27.:58:29.

because it will facilitate Chinese dumping which the minister dxalted

:58:30.:58:34.

and picked the lock. That is not the case and I are too big again and out

:58:35.:58:38.

market economy status or sign-up. Of course I listen to the honotrable

:58:39.:58:41.

lady bot might argument it hs always good to have that debate with her.

:58:42.:58:45.

What I am saying is not that it is all sorted on dumping. What I am

:58:46.:58:52.

saying is that we have started. . Mr Speaker... We have ticked the box in

:58:53.:58:55.

terms of getting on and doing something about it but no doubt

:58:56.:58:58.

they'll be more concerned that the steel industry will raise bdcause

:58:59.:59:03.

they raised concerns would be used. -- E you will thought it is really

:59:04.:59:07.

rich coming from the opposition Ready for time we voted in favour of

:59:08.:59:13.

a that option. Not just oncd but twice and now we have rebar so we

:59:14.:59:19.

are making good progress. Does my honourable friend agree that UK

:59:20.:59:22.

companies who want to export their products need to soars the cheapest

:59:23.:59:29.

deal they can if they are to be competitive in the world market

:59:30.:59:32.

width and realistically, thd UK skills that their will alwaxs

:59:33.:59:38.

struggle in the long-term if competitors can forgive the LG brand

:59:39.:59:43.

and we can -- can produce yhelds deeper than we can. One of the bank

:59:44.:59:49.

that is absolutely striking about the British steel industry hs the

:59:50.:59:53.

quality of the product and that is one of the main reasons why people

:59:54.:59:57.

want to buy British steel hd could they know it is the best in the

:59:58.:00:05.

world. Many years since the steelworks in my constituency closed

:00:06.:00:11.

and some would say that the local economy had never fully recovered.

:00:12.:00:18.

My constituent understand wdll the period that will exist in the

:00:19.:00:21.

community in South Wales and elsewhere in the country after the

:00:22.:00:23.

news today. And I asked the Minister to be clear with the house `bout

:00:24.:00:27.

exactly where the government stand on this question of market dconomy

:00:28.:00:33.

status for China and how it relates to anti-doping rules? The H`stert --

:00:34.:00:43.

anti-dumping. The decision will be made by the European Union. We also

:00:44.:00:50.

take the view and IM repeathng it, but I think it's important, that for

:00:51.:00:54.

China to get that it must show that it will play by the rules and it

:00:55.:00:58.

must the evidence that it is playing by the rules. By right honotrable

:00:59.:01:04.

friend is absolutely right `bout the quality of it is still but the

:01:05.:01:10.

quality of some imports is luch to be desired. What leads to bd divided

:01:11.:01:16.

of the standards of quality around steel so that British steel can

:01:17.:01:21.

flourish was white in number of companies I am thinking of seltzer

:01:22.:01:27.

who met they are a Cardiff ,based company were very keen to m`ke this

:01:28.:01:30.

point about whether or not hmports work of the same quality. Yds we

:01:31.:01:34.

have looked at the standard. Sadly we have not always made progress

:01:35.:01:38.

because is an independent body and makes these decisions and not the

:01:39.:01:41.

job of government unfortunately we have no influence over them but he

:01:42.:01:44.

makes a very important point and it is one we advance all the thme. Job

:01:45.:01:54.

losses have devastated the people and communities in South West Wales.

:01:55.:02:01.

Many of my constituency. Thdre. I endorsed the words of right

:02:02.:02:05.

honourable friend and asked again what urgent action will the

:02:06.:02:08.

government take a had apart from warm words? I will go through all

:02:09.:02:14.

the things we have done but what I will assure the honourable lady is

:02:15.:02:17.

that we will work with the was government. We have asked to be part

:02:18.:02:21.

of their task forth and I vdry much hope that they will have thd United

:02:22.:02:26.

Kingdom government as part of their task forth. I think that is very

:02:27.:02:31.

important. -- Welsh governmdnt. And I think the minister for all the

:02:32.:02:34.

work and support you have provided to those of affected in Scunthorpe.

:02:35.:02:39.

It is really appreciated and the commitment going forward to support

:02:40.:02:43.

the sale of the site which ly cup and other low MPs will be mdeting

:02:44.:02:48.

later this week. On the edgd of support to affected by job losses

:02:49.:02:53.

thus far ?9 million Haggartx come our way. One issue would have come

:02:54.:02:56.

up at our local task force `t how much of that money can be used and

:02:57.:03:01.

how flexibly to the bar new jobs as well as the job. If we made a than

:03:02.:03:06.

patient can see as or is a laximum like abilities of the money game

:03:07.:03:08.

used to create new as well `s existing jobs. I start answdr is yes

:03:09.:03:14.

was will plead you Mr Speakdr. As the honourable 80s for Right Guard

:03:15.:03:17.

knows when I hear and find out if there were any good book I do not

:03:18.:03:21.

mess about in getting them started. So we do not want any nonsense it in

:03:22.:03:25.

the honourable gentleman knows my door is always open so we c`n sort

:03:26.:03:32.

things out. The minister had spoken of the state aid rules and get the

:03:33.:03:36.

Italian government has avidly permissibly provided systems to aid

:03:37.:03:39.

your industry on the basis that it constitutes environmental

:03:40.:03:43.

protection. My father worked for steel for 40 years and I know the

:03:44.:03:48.

sacrifice as the many steel working families over so many years in this

:03:49.:03:52.

industry. Don't they deservd a government now that does so much

:03:53.:03:57.

more than this one is willing to do? I pay tribute to all those hncluding

:03:58.:04:02.

my honourable friend whose grandmother worked in skill. I think

:04:03.:04:06.

my own great grandmother did. The most important thing is to lake this

:04:07.:04:12.

absolutely clear that we know the great value of all the Steelworkers.

:04:13.:04:16.

He did ask me a question whhch I have now completely forgottdn.

:04:17.:04:22.

Italy! Another huge myth. The Italian government is in thd process

:04:23.:04:28.

of selling that he'll industry. We will see if there are any btyers.

:04:29.:04:36.

Can I pay tribute to the minister. I am unaware of the -- aware of the

:04:37.:04:43.

impact he had on job losses but is he reasserting out that the

:04:44.:04:46.

investment the government is putting into retraining and rescaling

:04:47.:04:49.

workers will end up in the pockets of those workers and not with

:04:50.:04:53.

consultants or accountant and people of such interest was was whhte

:04:54.:05:01.

absolutely. We know in the path that has not always been the casd. We

:05:02.:05:07.

come from areas where there were always concerned to whether or not

:05:08.:05:10.

government is in tagged Bears money was being properly spent and I am

:05:11.:05:13.

hopeful, in fact I am sure that the money we made available for the

:05:14.:05:17.

workers will we properly thhnk and if it is not I want to know about it

:05:18.:05:24.

and we will sort it out. Can I press the minister, will the treasury find

:05:25.:05:28.

a way to provide the extra resources to the Welsh government to reduce

:05:29.:05:33.

business rates at Tata Steel to help keep heal alive"? They did want to

:05:34.:05:41.

have that as part of their devolution settlement and there is a

:05:42.:05:46.

good argument that if you gdt what you ask for you have to takd the

:05:47.:05:48.

consequences. At the moment, no such request has been made but it request

:05:49.:05:52.

is made and whatever it maybe we will always listen. When I walked

:05:53.:05:59.

through the crossrail tunnel with the James Ward select committee the

:06:00.:06:03.

boxes they are really stressed the high level of British procurement as

:06:04.:06:06.

part of that project. Does the Minister agree with me that we can

:06:07.:06:09.

really win hearts and minds on the head test to project -- HS2 project

:06:10.:06:15.

by putting British steel at the heart of this billions of pounds

:06:16.:06:19.

project. Absolutely and we `re hugely proud of the fact th`t

:06:20.:06:26.

crossrail, a fantastic multh-billion pound project has been built with

:06:27.:06:30.

British still because it is the best. -The 20th next door to Guy

:06:31.:06:39.

many of my work force travel... There is a real risk that the

:06:40.:06:46.

critical mass of Steelworkers is going to be endangered by the job

:06:47.:06:49.

losses. Can we have an assurance from the minister that therd will be

:06:50.:06:53.

interim relief in business rates at least because that is the bhg issue

:06:54.:06:59.

that is going to make or brdak the viability of that works and the job

:07:00.:07:06.

there. Is a good argument btt not one to but at my door because this

:07:07.:07:09.

is the responsibility of thd whilst government because it is devolved. I

:07:10.:07:13.

think there is other work wd can do and one of the things we were

:07:14.:07:16.

discussing with Tata Steel for a long time is about whether or not

:07:17.:07:21.

all the land that is there hs being best used and I think there is a lot

:07:22.:07:25.

of work that we can do with the board to make a more viable and look

:07:26.:07:29.

at other ways of making certain that we make full use of the port by port

:07:30.:07:39.

Albert. Today is a sad day for the steel industry. Particularlx with

:07:40.:07:44.

the workers who live in my constituency. There has over the

:07:45.:07:51.

weekend bent quite a bit of rhetoric regarding responsibility th`t live

:07:52.:07:54.

here at Westminster according to him for the recovery. There are many

:07:55.:08:00.

things at Cardiff Bay that could be used particularly as this r`tes Was

:08:01.:08:04.

he with me that the first Mhnister would be better employing a time

:08:05.:08:08.

ensuring that these are used rather than engaging in tribal polhtics was

:08:09.:08:19.

? I agree. If the time for dveryone to come together and the best thing

:08:20.:08:25.

that written steel industry -- written's steel industry. There is

:08:26.:08:29.

no excuse not to buy British steel. Can I ask her what she said with

:08:30.:08:34.

former colleague of the Minhstry of defence for British steel for

:08:35.:08:38.

contacts and particularly whether she expressed the dividends of. .

:08:39.:08:48.

Short answers are yes and yds. The value of Sheffield is not lost on

:08:49.:08:54.

anybody especially those of us who are concerned about the futtre of

:08:55.:09:01.

our defence sector. In an e`rlier answer my honourable friend talked

:09:02.:09:06.

about playing by the rules `nd then added there is no reason whx HS

:09:07.:09:09.

cannot use British steel. As I understand it the EU law me`ns that

:09:10.:09:13.

my honourable friend cannot guarantee that. Is that not correct?

:09:14.:09:20.

I do not think it is as simple as cannot guarantee it. We livd in a

:09:21.:09:24.

free market economy and that means that anybody must be free to buy

:09:25.:09:28.

from whomsoever they feel whll give them the best deal. I think the

:09:29.:09:32.

point that we are saying is that when it comes to our own procurement

:09:33.:09:37.

rules at government with a spare's money we have maybe ruled stch that

:09:38.:09:42.

there is no egg use for anybody not to buy British steel and because it

:09:43.:09:45.

is so good there is every rdason why they should. The measures announced

:09:46.:09:51.

by the government are welcole however very limited. Was hd not

:09:52.:09:54.

accept that unless we tackld the question of Chinese dumping in the

:09:55.:10:00.

whole future of the whole UK industry is prayed in that clock is

:10:01.:10:03.

ticking and we do not have luch time left with Matt it is import`nt but

:10:04.:10:07.

it is not the answer. One of the reasons why the price of stdel has

:10:08.:10:10.

plummeted is not just because of the worldwide overproduction th`t

:10:11.:10:15.

because consumption of steel has not even got to where it was before the

:10:16.:10:20.

crisis. It is not as simple as Chinese dumping. The ministdr talks

:10:21.:10:30.

tough on procurement, why then are UK companies capable of producing

:10:31.:10:36.

the large forgings for the think the point reactor not being givdn the

:10:37.:10:39.

opportunity even to tender for the work? Under the terms of thd

:10:40.:10:43.

contract stuff between this government and EDF? Could bd it

:10:44.:10:47.

minister say specifically what independent evaluation has our

:10:48.:10:52.

department undertaken of EDF's assertion that there are no UK

:10:53.:10:54.

companies with the relevant experience? My honourable friend the

:10:55.:11:01.

secondary day of paper energy is hearing that the OC and I whll

:11:02.:11:05.

discuss it and we will writd to the honourable gentleman. I welcome the

:11:06.:11:16.

belated announcement and support for the steel industry. When can we

:11:17.:11:19.

expect similar announcement for support of other parts of UK

:11:20.:11:24.

manufacturing? As I pay procurement rules are not just apply to feel

:11:25.:11:27.

they apply to other metals, I think they apply to almost everything I

:11:28.:11:32.

need to go back and check on that but let's be absolutely cle`r I am

:11:33.:11:38.

very proud of this government's record and the last governmdnt's

:11:39.:11:41.

record. If you look at the back there are over 2 million more people

:11:42.:11:46.

in work, I know it is lost to most people on the bench is sitthng

:11:47.:11:48.

opposite, that is a proud rdcord of this country. The minister gave the

:11:49.:12:00.

house details of the updated procurement guidance and as my

:12:01.:12:04.

honourable friend pointed ott maybe statement that there is no dxcuse

:12:05.:12:08.

not to and every reason to buy British deal. Of course the ability

:12:09.:12:12.

to do that by the industry hs constrained by the fact that they're

:12:13.:12:20.

range of capabilities as behng - has been lost and limited to a great

:12:21.:12:24.

degree over the last few decades. In other words British still does not

:12:25.:12:29.

make the range of components and a specialised range of skill that it

:12:30.:12:32.

did years ago. What is the government wanting to do to support

:12:33.:12:35.

the industry as we propose to do with Ford's Masters in securing

:12:36.:12:42.

investment and development of a new range of capabilities because we are

:12:43.:12:46.

not going to see high UK content in our infrastructure projects and we

:12:47.:12:50.

address that issue. The honourable Lady made a good point but H think

:12:51.:12:54.

the most important thing is in the face of these unprecedented price is

:12:55.:12:59.

across the hall of gas crisds across the whole of the world, what this

:13:00.:13:03.

government is determined to do and we have already started that work in

:13:04.:13:07.

figuring it the long-term sustainability of both in Antwerp

:13:08.:13:12.

and in South Wales -- Scunthorpe to produce steel. Honourable mdmbers

:13:13.:13:18.

can attend to Ron about what other European Union countries ard doing.

:13:19.:13:24.

We have examined evidence and there's a lot of mythology `bout all

:13:25.:13:27.

this. This country have takdn the action that is needed, involved in

:13:28.:13:32.

saying quite clearly to Tat` Steel and Krehbiel we will help you in any

:13:33.:13:37.

way we can in securing this deal and also to occur when abhorred Talbot.

:13:38.:13:40.

We will do everything we can to support you guys Port Talbot.

:13:41.:13:49.

On the issue of anti-dumping, at a European level why had UK government

:13:50.:13:55.

let a blocking minority to prevent trade performance was like H am

:13:56.:14:02.

afraid I just do not accept this Mr Speaker. The secretary of State has

:14:03.:14:04.

led the charge. He went over to Brussels, he set up an emergency

:14:05.:14:09.

committee to look specifically at the problems facing the stedl

:14:10.:14:13.

industry. I think we are dohng the right thing. I think one of the most

:14:14.:14:22.

frustrating things for Stew`rt in my own visit to the imparted across all

:14:23.:14:25.

the other end of the UK is that they know the previous government was

:14:26.:14:30.

warned again and again and `gain about the challenges facing the

:14:31.:14:33.

industry and while the minister that out the actions had taken the last

:14:34.:14:37.

few months many that she dods I welcome, can see they had done hard

:14:38.:14:40.

that the previous deal minister and Chancellor did everything they did

:14:41.:14:43.

good when they were warned `bout the crises? Gas. What I will sax about

:14:44.:14:50.

my department is to do this we have a conservative Secretary of State.

:14:51.:15:09.

-- --. Yes. Was the minister's. . As I have said we are determindd, the

:15:10.:15:13.

Prime Minister has said that is a vital industry. We are absolutely

:15:14.:15:19.

determined that we will havd a sustainable deal industry producing

:15:20.:15:23.

steel at Scunthorpe and in South Wales in blast furnaces. Prhor to

:15:24.:15:34.

Christmas, the UA CD had a leeting on steel which the Chinese

:15:35.:15:38.

delegation reviewed to attend. Obviously every other country that

:15:39.:15:41.

was there wanted to talk as glee about Chinese dumping. It is the

:15:42.:15:45.

government's addition in relation to Chinese market economy statts that

:15:46.:15:58.

they... Whether China's wind up for the agreement signed in Parhs. Can

:15:59.:16:05.

the Minister tell us how on earth we will have a manufacturing sdctor at

:16:06.:16:09.

all if China is allowed to dump in such a way without any control

:16:10.:16:13.

whether in this life or the European Union would like as I have said MAF

:16:14.:16:18.

is a matter for the European Union and as I have also said probably we

:16:19.:16:23.

are in favour of it that we have made it very clear that China will

:16:24.:16:26.

only get it if it proves th`t it can play by the rules. The minister

:16:27.:16:34.

cannot have it both ways because as sure as night follows day,

:16:35.:16:37.

eventually local consumption will increase, demand will incre`se, and

:16:38.:16:42.

the price of the yield will increase. What assessment h`s our

:16:43.:16:47.

department made of the long,term impact both on UK competitiveness

:16:48.:16:53.

but also on our own domestic economic strategy with this vital

:16:54.:16:58.

industry so badly depleted? What we do know is that if the partx

:16:59.:17:05.

opposite is in charge of our country's economy again it will take

:17:06.:17:08.

us back to the brink of bankruptcy as it did last time. Order. We come

:17:09.:17:18.

down to the main business. H am agreeable to the minister and

:17:19.:17:23.

colleagues. I remind the Hotse that I have certified quality 79 of the

:17:24.:17:31.

energy bill, understanding order number 83 J in relation to Dngland

:17:32.:17:37.

and Wales. I further remind the house that this does not repeat

:17:38.:17:43.

not, affect proceedings in the debate on second reading or indeed

:17:44.:17:49.

in committee or at report stage After report stage, I will consider

:17:50.:17:54.

them again for certification and if required the legislative gr`nt

:17:55.:17:57.

committee will be asked to consent to certify provisions.

:17:58.:18:06.

Energy bill lost second reading -- law. To move the second reading I

:18:07.:18:17.

call the secretary for energy and climate change. I beg to move that

:18:18.:18:23.

Bill believed that a second time. This is focused on securing a better

:18:24.:18:30.

future for a second time. Otr job is to rebuild Britain so we le`ve to

:18:31.:18:34.

the next generation a stronger Kontinen and what -- countrx than

:18:35.:18:40.

the one we inherited. That leans ensuring our energy securitx. We

:18:41.:18:45.

cannot function without the electricity, oil and gas le`se to

:18:46.:18:49.

heat our homes, power busindss industry and drive our transport

:18:50.:18:52.

system. The well-being of otr common media and our citizens requhres that

:18:53.:18:56.

the first priority for the Department of Energy and Clhmate

:18:57.:19:02.

Change should be energy sectrity. But no responsible government to

:19:03.:19:04.

take a risk on climate change either. It is one of the grdatest

:19:05.:19:08.

long-term threat to our economic security. I will give way. H should

:19:09.:19:18.

have said to the House, in case the bar waiting with bated breath, that

:19:19.:19:26.

the amendment has not been selected. I want to release the honourable

:19:27.:19:30.

lady from her misery. Beford we proceed any further. There `re is

:19:31.:19:36.

adequate opportunity for her to debate on these later. On that

:19:37.:19:45.

point. Underground coal production is a major concern in my

:19:46.:19:48.

constituency because natural resources have been granted a

:19:49.:19:51.

license which runs alongsidd the constituency. In the speech on the

:19:52.:19:57.

18th of November she announced the governments welcome intention to

:19:58.:20:02.

close call our 2025 and restrict it I2023, Cole is one of the most

:20:03.:20:06.

carbon intensive fossil fuels damages air-quality in is not

:20:07.:20:12.

sustainable in the long terl. If the honourable lady could come to her

:20:13.:20:16.

question that will be great. The government is proposing to hn

:20:17.:20:21.

burning coal, will the Secrdtary of State clarify the position on

:20:22.:20:24.

underground coal which involves burning coal underground? I could

:20:25.:20:31.

urge the honourable lady to participate in the consultation

:20:32.:20:37.

which be having shortly abott it, in terms of timing, it will be

:20:38.:20:44.

opportunity for her to make a point. It is a significant step towards

:20:45.:20:48.

reducing, on a global scale, the omissions that cause climatd change.

:20:49.:20:52.

For the first time nearly 200 countries have made a commitment to

:20:53.:20:55.

act together in symbiotic honourable. This agreement will help

:20:56.:21:00.

protect not only our environment but are national and economic sdcurity

:21:01.:21:04.

as well. Our national progrdss has been good today with greenhouse gas

:21:05.:21:08.

emissions down around 30% shnce 1890. Between 2010-2014 the gas

:21:09.:21:16.

emissions fell by 15%, one of the biggest reductions in a single

:21:17.:21:21.

parliament. Indeed, and 2014 we saw the largest reduction measured in a

:21:22.:21:26.

single year, down 8%, a fantastic achievement against the backdrop of

:21:27.:21:31.

an economy that grew to .9%. In June, would these -- we will set the

:21:32.:21:40.

new budget. -- to .9%. At the end of the year we will show our ndw plan.

:21:41.:21:46.

The emissions reduction plan will provide full details of our approach

:21:47.:21:50.

we are ready know where we need to take more action, energy efficiency

:21:51.:21:56.

and long-term framework for heat, omissions reduction in the

:21:57.:21:59.

industrial sector and of cotrse in transport where progress has been

:22:00.:22:04.

slow. -- 2.9%. In all these areas will mean new thinking and work with

:22:05.:22:08.

academia and business to develop proper long-term plans. I ghve way.

:22:09.:22:15.

Not being one who was too concerned about CO2 emissions, perhaps the

:22:16.:22:17.

Minister could tell us how luch of the reduction in our CO2 emhssions

:22:18.:22:23.

is due to the fact that we `re exporting jobs to other parts of the

:22:24.:22:28.

world, such as the statement we have before her introduction tod`y. I

:22:29.:22:32.

hope that the armed with gentleman would take some convert frol the

:22:33.:22:39.

agreement, although the UK has the most ambitious climate change

:22:40.:22:43.

targets possibly in the world, the agreement will go some way to

:22:44.:22:45.

address the competitive isste that he raises, because other cotntries

:22:46.:22:52.

are also taking on publicathons to reduce their emissions as wdll. I

:22:53.:22:55.

would highlight China and that as well, who for the first timd as part

:22:56.:23:01.

of a global agreement. Let le make some progress and I will give way.

:23:02.:23:06.

Mr Speaker, as part of the `ction, this government is focused on scene

:23:07.:23:10.

a long-term plan for secure, clean and affordable energy supplhes for

:23:11.:23:14.

generations to come. This bhll delivers key manifesto commhtments

:23:15.:23:18.

to achieve that objective. Over the next parliament that means dnsuring

:23:19.:23:22.

we continue to it support investment in UK energy sources includhng in

:23:23.:23:25.

the North Sea. A music conthnuing of support deployment of renew`ble so

:23:26.:23:30.

that we meet our objective of producing 30% of our electrhcity

:23:31.:23:35.

from her Lupul sources by 2020. I give way to the honourable

:23:36.:23:42.

gentleman. -- former global sources. Could the secretary of statd

:23:43.:23:47.

explained promoting a more dxpensive form of rentable energy -- renewable

:23:48.:23:57.

energy. Can't you tell about the energy savings. The lowest rate of

:23:58.:24:05.

saving is just 30p per year. The honourable gentleman asked le a

:24:06.:24:09.

false question, we have to deliver on our manifesto commitments, that

:24:10.:24:16.

is why we will be ending it. We will still be making our target which we

:24:17.:24:25.

put in 2012 to do 11-13 by 20 2 . In terms of the amount that is saved by

:24:26.:24:33.

taking these actions are those estimate is about 20 million a year

:24:34.:24:36.

and our highest is about 200 million a year. This is a significant sums,

:24:37.:24:50.

I would urge M... I do not `gree with the way he put it, but he made

:24:51.:24:55.

an important point. Although she is probably saying how well ard

:24:56.:24:58.

emissions that come down, if you are to take into account consumption

:24:59.:25:02.

omissions, those omissions that are linked to our consumption when we

:25:03.:25:05.

import things from other pl`ces like China and will she agree from that

:25:06.:25:09.

perspective our emissions h`ve gone up and we do have some

:25:10.:25:12.

responsibility for those industries we have outsourced to places like

:25:13.:25:17.

China but we enjoy the benefits of that here? The honourable l`dy

:25:18.:25:21.

should be to the honourable gentleman behind her. I would come

:25:22.:25:25.

back to her and stated that she also should take comfort from thd Paris

:25:26.:25:30.

agreement which obliges all countries to take action in this

:25:31.:25:34.

important area. The other activity we are taking on in order to deliver

:25:35.:25:38.

on our low carbon future is to press ahead with a new fleet of ntclear

:25:39.:25:41.

power stations. We are also encouraging new gas power stations

:25:42.:25:46.

so that we can end the use of coal for electricity generation by 2 25.

:25:47.:25:54.

I give weight. Will she accdpt that only 2.5% is nuclear. If yot read

:25:55.:25:58.

15% within ten years uraniul will have run out. Will she accept that

:25:59.:26:03.

we should do more with renewables given the 80% of fossil fuels cannot

:26:04.:26:12.

be exploited, she's doing enough? Can I urge the honourable gdntleman

:26:13.:26:15.

to think carefully about thd importance of getting the b`lance.

:26:16.:26:19.

However important we think renewables are and we do, wd need to

:26:20.:26:23.

also have absolutely secure base vote so there is never any risk to

:26:24.:26:29.

security. That is what is that when to delivering on nuclear. -, that is

:26:30.:26:36.

why this government is commhtted. I checked today, 1% of our power is

:26:37.:26:40.

being generated... Of dirty percent from coal and 42% on gas. Doesn t

:26:41.:26:44.

that show us that the Secretary of State not to rely on these

:26:45.:26:48.

renewables, or the lights would go off with Mac -- 30% he is rhght it

:26:49.:26:56.

is absolutely essential to lake sure we have the cure base loads while we

:26:57.:26:59.

deliver on our renewable targets as well. Simply meeting the targets

:27:00.:27:03.

have set ourselves is not stfficient if we are to ensure energy security.

:27:04.:27:10.

We have to get this in the lost cost-effective way. Not part of a

:27:11.:27:15.

permanent business model it should be temporary. Clean technologies

:27:16.:27:19.

won't be sustainable at the scale we need if they are cheap enough. We

:27:20.:27:22.

need to get the right balance between supporting new technologies

:27:23.:27:26.

and as costs come down, being tough on subsidies to keep bills `s low as

:27:27.:27:33.

possible. We can only expect the players to support low carbon power

:27:34.:27:38.

as long as costs are controlled -- payers. First, by continuing to

:27:39.:27:45.

support the development of North Sea oil and gas by implementing

:27:46.:27:51.

regulations of the review to establish the oil and gas Atthority

:27:52.:27:54.

as an independent regulator and Stewart. Second, acting to control

:27:55.:28:00.

the cost of renewing energy by ending new set cities for Unser went

:28:01.:28:04.

in providing local people whth the final say on new applications. I am

:28:05.:28:09.

going to make some progress on these two and I will take further

:28:10.:28:14.

interruptions. Not yet. The North Sea oil and gas industry is still a

:28:15.:28:18.

huge strategic and economic importance to the United Kingdom. It

:28:19.:28:21.

has been the UK's largest industry investor for many decades on the

:28:22.:28:25.

supporting hundreds of thousands of jobs especially in Scotland. Since

:28:26.:28:31.

the 1970s industry has paid for over ?300 billion of production taxes. In

:28:32.:28:37.

2014, the UK Continental shdlf reduced all the gas equivaldnt to

:28:38.:28:43.

well over half of the UK delands. But, as it matures all and gas has

:28:44.:28:46.

become more difficult and more expensive to access. This h`s a

:28:47.:28:53.

sharp focus for the sustaindd fall in oil prices. It is putting

:28:54.:28:55.

considerable pressure on thd industry to create a more

:28:56.:28:59.

competitive space and incre`se efficiency. As a result, 2004-1 saw

:29:00.:29:04.

falling revenues and falling investment, regrettably, we are

:29:05.:29:10.

seeing job losses. In order to continue to attract investmdnt and

:29:11.:29:14.

safeguard a future of this vital national asset, the Chancellor set

:29:15.:29:19.

out a Dominican package tax reform in the March 2015 budget. -, set out

:29:20.:29:28.

a package. We increased production by 15% by 2020, and the long-term a

:29:29.:29:32.

sustainable economic future for the North Sea offshore industry will

:29:33.:29:38.

only be achieved if we can laximize oil and gas recovery. That hs

:29:39.:29:41.

otherwise government set up the review and report it with a rash of

:29:42.:29:45.

the GM plays were covering of the North Sea rivers can be boosted by

:29:46.:29:54.

an additional 3-4 billion b`rrels. Laster stop production incrdased at

:29:55.:30:00.

the North Sea which is welcome anytime where most disparatd

:30:01.:30:03.

industry is relatively bleak. Will she agree with me that the hndustry

:30:04.:30:09.

is in a point where buyers sustained support from the government which

:30:10.:30:13.

would require visible measures on the Chancellor and his coming

:30:14.:30:19.

budget? -- last year. He is absolutely right. Great progress has

:30:20.:30:24.

been made introducing the cost of production already. And it part of

:30:25.:30:28.

the intent of this bill to lake sure we can deliver further on that. I

:30:29.:30:34.

share his view that we need to give as much support as possible, but it

:30:35.:30:38.

will be too early for myself to comment on whether they will be

:30:39.:30:43.

aiming to give that support. This government is committed to laking

:30:44.:30:45.

sure that we support those jobs in the industry. I give way. She accept

:30:46.:30:58.

that the reason, is fracking. The latest evidence shows that fracking

:30:59.:31:04.

generates 5%... It goes into the MS beer, 82% making them and affects

:31:05.:31:12.

climate change. Will she have negotiations with the United States

:31:13.:31:17.

about reducing this and put the brakes on fracking so we can

:31:18.:31:20.

actually lift the price of oil and have a more sustainable futtre? The

:31:21.:31:26.

honourable gentleman I will make two points. The reason for the fall in

:31:27.:31:29.

the price of oil is multipld and complex. I will not actuallx analyze

:31:30.:31:33.

it here. It is not just one cause. US has considerably reduced its

:31:34.:31:36.

emissions because of fracking which we welcome that point. Any demands

:31:37.:31:45.

we do not meet ourselves has to be met by imports, significant extra

:31:46.:31:48.

cost to the economy, industry government shares the same `mbitions

:31:49.:31:51.

and is working closely together to manage the remaining resources

:31:52.:31:56.

effectively and efficiently. As we de-carbonize our economy we will

:31:57.:31:59.

continue to meet all and gas for many decades to come. Far bdtter for

:32:00.:32:04.

jobs and revenue in the UK offsetting imports where we can

:32:05.:32:06.

Maximizing economic recoverx for the UK Continental shelf must bd part of

:32:07.:32:12.

a balanced plan for diverse and progressively lower carbon lix. This

:32:13.:32:17.

bill will complete the work started in the previous Parliament hmplement

:32:18.:32:23.

fully the review. Keys to this recommendation is the establishment

:32:24.:32:26.

of the oil and gas authoritx. As an independent regulator with ` clear

:32:27.:32:33.

and focused mandate maximizd recovery of UK petroleum. C`uses

:32:34.:32:39.

1-76 establish it as a independent regulator which will take the form

:32:40.:32:43.

of a government owned companies transforming regular to powdrs and

:32:44.:32:49.

functions to the OGA and giving him new powers to maximize the dconomic

:32:50.:32:51.

recovery. The OGA will take forward the principle of maximizing economic

:32:52.:32:58.

recovery set out in part ond A of the petroleum act of 1998 whth the

:32:59.:33:04.

power taken in the infrastrtcture act of 2015. In November, I ordered

:33:05.:33:09.

a consultation on strategy for maximizing economic recoverx of UK

:33:10.:33:13.

petroleum which is essential to the future of its effectiveness. An

:33:14.:33:18.

amendment made in the other place means to broaden that princhple

:33:19.:33:21.

greatly expanding the scope of the OGA's wrote and going far bdyond the

:33:22.:33:26.

vision set out in the review. Madam Deputy Speaker, we seek to overturn

:33:27.:33:31.

his amendment. In our view `nd indeed that of the industry and the

:33:32.:33:38.

union, diluting the focus of the OGA at this critical time is not the

:33:39.:33:41.

right way to proceed. The ODA should be focused on maximize the dconomic

:33:42.:33:50.

recovery. In the current difficult and challenging circumstancds

:33:51.:33:54.

nothing to distract from th`t vital task. -- OGA. The OGA requires

:33:55.:33:59.

clarity on that objective and we intend to provide that. Mad`m Deputy

:34:00.:34:03.

Speaker this government is committed to the climate change, ... We will

:34:04.:34:13.

see the climate change, we set the fifth carbon budget. Amendmdnts made

:34:14.:34:18.

in the other place he could change the way we count carbon for carbon

:34:19.:34:22.

budget purposes in the fifth budget onwards. Given the work to set a

:34:23.:34:26.

fifth carbon budget it is wdll underway and has been for ndarly a

:34:27.:34:30.

year. Although it is right to keep our practice is under review, now is

:34:31.:34:36.

not the right time to changd. To do so, this far into the process, would

:34:37.:34:41.

seriously threaten it. We sdek to overturn these amendments. Turning

:34:42.:34:46.

up the delivery of the governments manifesto commitments to end the

:34:47.:34:51.

subsidies and to ensure loc`l people have the final say in on archer went

:34:52.:34:58.

is built. I set out to the House on June the 18th trying to close the

:34:59.:35:02.

obligation for it in Great Britain on April the 1st 2016. With the

:35:03.:35:08.

great Spirit available for the project which as of the 18th of June

:35:09.:35:12.

20 15th have arty planning consent and off for a good connection and

:35:13.:35:16.

access to land rights. The provisions we made to achieve this

:35:17.:35:21.

were removed in the other place and will be introduced. Let me be clear,

:35:22.:35:28.

there is no ambiguity on thhs. This is a manifesto commitment wd

:35:29.:35:33.

signaled our thinking beford the last election and we put it before

:35:34.:35:36.

the British people and black-and-white to end the public

:35:37.:35:45.

subsidies for onshore wind. There long-established commitments that

:35:46.:35:47.

are well understood and we will stand firm on this. Onshore wind has

:35:48.:35:51.

deployed successfully today and is projected to meet the planndd range

:35:52.:35:56.

of 11-13 gigawatts by 2020. There is a risk of the point beyond this

:35:57.:36:00.

range, potentially adding more cost to consumer bills and squeezing out

:36:01.:36:03.

opportunities for other rendwables like offshore wind to bring down the

:36:04.:36:09.

cost. We have engaged widelx on proposals I set out in June

:36:10.:36:14.

including the Bob demonstrations, investors and builders. -- devolved.

:36:15.:36:21.

It is important that Northern Ireland closes at one equiv`lent

:36:22.:36:27.

terms. I give way. Could shd stop the consequences for Northern

:36:28.:36:32.

Ireland. Should the executive maintain the subsidies for longer

:36:33.:36:40.

than the period after 2016? He raises an important question. It is

:36:41.:36:42.

my position is Northern Ireland chooses to provide addition`l

:36:43.:36:46.

support for onshore wind thd consumers in Northern Ireland and

:36:47.:36:49.

not Great Britain should be`r the cost of this. We have to make

:36:50.:36:53.

strategic cost where public money is directed because we cannot `fford to

:36:54.:36:58.

support every project and every technology regardless of his

:36:59.:37:02.

contribution to energy security and regardless of the cost. We need to

:37:03.:37:05.

concentrate our support where technology has the potential to

:37:06.:37:10.

deliver at a significant go`l that we need for energy security and the

:37:11.:37:15.

carbonize age in. And where we still need to see significant falls in

:37:16.:37:19.

cross technology. -- de-carbonize nation. Can she grant from the next

:37:20.:37:26.

round is for this advanced technology for health and whether

:37:27.:37:30.

the widest possible range of those technologies will be suitable for

:37:31.:37:36.

that? He raises an important point and we have affirmed that there will

:37:37.:37:41.

be three new auctions for offshore wind and we are looking out at will

:37:42.:37:47.

be included in the act and the best way to really drive down prhces

:37:48.:37:51.

This government is clear th`t that support will only continue `s long

:37:52.:37:55.

as we continue to drive down prices, it is critical to looking after

:37:56.:37:59.

consumers. I will give way to the honourable gentleman. Therefore on

:38:00.:38:14.

a technical point can she tdll how will be handled in Wells. Hd raises

:38:15.:38:24.

two points, we have said we are evolving to local communitids and

:38:25.:38:27.

that we are ending the subshdies. It will be unlikely, and current, for

:38:28.:38:34.

anyone shall rise up to go `head. We have agreed to discuss with

:38:35.:38:37.

developers the prospect of `n onshore wind without subsidx if it

:38:38.:38:44.

has local community support. And in Wales I will be in discussion with

:38:45.:38:47.

the Welsh Government on the best way to deliver on that suggestion. Rest

:38:48.:38:51.

assured that the devolved administration is fully aware of the

:38:52.:38:55.

plans and we are supporting them. We are pushing forward with proposals

:38:56.:38:59.

for low carbon base load. And with a new fleet of nuclear power stations.

:39:00.:39:03.

We are consulting on a closdr day and working to get and lower power

:39:04.:39:10.

stations built. Energy security must come first. Because it is the

:39:11.:39:13.

foundation of our future economic success. But, that future mtst be

:39:14.:39:18.

low carbon as well. Climate change is one of the greatest long,term

:39:19.:39:22.

that's economic security th`t low carbon future cannot be achheved

:39:23.:39:29.

because it is the hard-workhng families of bridge and were

:39:30.:39:34.

ultimately footing the bill. I beg to move, Madam Deputy Speakdr. The

:39:35.:39:39.

question is that the bill bd read a second time. Thank you. North Sea

:39:40.:39:46.

oil and gas production has helped fund public services like the

:39:47.:39:50.

National Health Service through taxes, generator with hundrdds of

:39:51.:39:53.

billions of pounds. It has hmproved our national security by reducing

:39:54.:39:57.

our dependence on imports from other countries. It has back to otr energy

:39:58.:40:02.

security by providing a relhable supply of gas and oil. Tools that

:40:03.:40:05.

will continue to play an important role in our energy, particularly for

:40:06.:40:12.

heating and transport as we transition to become a lower carbon

:40:13.:40:17.

economy. Crucially, the North Sea also sustained hundreds of thousands

:40:18.:40:22.

of skilled jobs in Scotland, the North East of England and in

:40:23.:40:27.

world-class supply chain businesses right across the country. For these

:40:28.:40:33.

reasons it has been across party consents is for some considdrable

:40:34.:40:35.

time, that we should do everything that we can to protect thesd jobs

:40:36.:40:42.

and to continue to maximize investment in on North Sea oil and

:40:43.:40:47.

gas industry. The incrediblx tough economic conditions faced bx

:40:48.:40:49.

businesses operating in the waters off of our shores as of the major

:40:50.:40:55.

fall in the price of oil, only undermines the need for parties

:40:56.:41:02.

across this house to work together to get on and implement the

:41:03.:41:04.

recommendations of the Independent review produced by certain xou

:41:05.:41:08.

would. I will give way here first and then there. Does she agree with

:41:09.:41:16.

the honourable friend that we should be trying to lobby the Amerhcan

:41:17.:41:22.

government to reduce that. One of the most important things wd can do

:41:23.:41:27.

to help boost jobs and skills in the North Sea is to have a long,term

:41:28.:41:30.

plan. I was a bit more about that as I move forward. With the sh`dow

:41:31.:41:37.

Minister agreeing to a cert`in extent she is speaking... On one

:41:38.:41:43.

hand she is saying that we have to de-carbonize the economy. On the

:41:44.:41:46.

other hand she is saying we have to increase the output of carbon fuel.

:41:47.:41:55.

Which is it that she wished with Matt that she wanted to buy all or

:41:56.:42:01.

to the carbonize. Perhaps I can up the honourable gentleman with this.

:42:02.:42:05.

It is one of the things that he obviously struggles to understand.

:42:06.:42:10.

As we move forward towards ` clean economy, it is widespread agreement

:42:11.:42:13.

on all sides of the House that that is a journey that we must t`ke. We

:42:14.:42:17.

need to think about where wd get our energy from in the short imlediate

:42:18.:42:24.

term. There is no question that it is a fact that we will need to rely

:42:25.:42:30.

on oil and gas, and the short-and medium-term. As we do, the puestion

:42:31.:42:37.

we face on all took -- all sorts of the House is whether we import that

:42:38.:42:41.

gas or generate our own. -- all sides. It is our view that this

:42:42.:42:46.

transition must be taken with care and attention to the jobs and skills

:42:47.:42:49.

and investment we need in this country. It is also a transhtion

:42:50.:42:55.

that must be taken with due care for our environment, health and safety.

:42:56.:43:00.

It is a difficult thing to `chieve, I welcome the fact that we `re

:43:01.:43:04.

having a debate about it today. It seems to me that it takes in

:43:05.:43:11.

interest of the industry we have in the North Sea against our interest

:43:12.:43:14.

in transitioning to a clean economy, that when I get as far. Would she

:43:15.:43:24.

agree that in terms of the long run, one of the dangers other th`n

:43:25.:43:33.

restricting the oil industrx is cramping up investment in

:43:34.:43:38.

renewables. It should not bd engaged by the current spot price of oil

:43:39.:43:48.

currently. LAUGHTER The Secretary of State is vdry

:43:49.:43:54.

welcome to respond to that hf she wishes. He has made several comments

:43:55.:44:00.

some I agree with and some H do not. He is right to point out thd real

:44:01.:44:03.

problems that are created bx the falling oil prices. One of those

:44:04.:44:07.

problems in particular is the problem that is currently bding

:44:08.:44:12.

phased by the economic condhtions by those businesses that are ctrrently

:44:13.:44:17.

operating in the North Sea. It is clearly in our national intdrest to

:44:18.:44:22.

move forward with the recommendations produced by Surrey

:44:23.:44:26.

Inwood. That is why we must move forward with his proposals to

:44:27.:44:31.

establish the independence of the new oil and gas Authority and why we

:44:32.:44:36.

support the government steps to progress this plan. As the North Sea

:44:37.:44:39.

enters a new mature phase and investment flows into

:44:40.:44:44.

decommissioning of offshore installations I hope that mhnisters

:44:45.:44:48.

will be advocating in their power to ensure that this work is colpleted

:44:49.:44:56.

using the skills and experthse help the workers. -- Sir Ian Wood. I

:44:57.:45:04.

commend her for her bipartisan approach to this bill. She hs

:45:05.:45:11.

talking about law and gas, the authority will set fees for the

:45:12.:45:15.

services that it provides. The Secretary of State will be `ble to

:45:16.:45:18.

determine what those needs should be. Can she gives an indication of

:45:19.:45:23.

what she thinks opposition would do to set those fees, Apple look - at

:45:24.:45:31.

what level and for how long? I think the Secretary of State will have

:45:32.:45:34.

heard that question and she or her honourable friend would tend to give

:45:35.:45:38.

a response later on in the debate. It is clear that there is still

:45:39.:45:47.

substantial remaining oil in the North Sea. It is not limited to

:45:48.:45:52.

decommissioning activity. Rdmains a second larger producer of ohl in

:45:53.:45:57.

Europe after Norway, there `re 00 films currently in production and it

:45:58.:45:59.

has been estimated that as luch as 20 billion barrels of oil and gas

:46:00.:46:03.

remain to be exploited in the UK. Much of this is understood to be in

:46:04.:46:10.

hundreds of small or margin`l goals are much more difficult and

:46:11.:46:13.

expensive to exploit. It will be important that the newly independent

:46:14.:46:17.

gas authority is able to maximize investments in these fields if we

:46:18.:46:23.

are able to seize on this potential. It were required strong powdrs and

:46:24.:46:26.

collaboration within the industry to resolve disputes between firms and

:46:27.:46:30.

drive greater efficiency to make further attraction, including

:46:31.:46:37.

considerations of cost. Would she also agreed that it is not just a

:46:38.:46:40.

matter of extracting the room and he oil from the shores -- remahning.

:46:41.:46:46.

But also the huge oil and g`s support service industry whhch does

:46:47.:46:51.

so much around the world am a contributing to the balance of

:46:52.:46:53.

payments and jobs in the Unhted Kingdom. I agree. Particularly, the

:46:54.:47:04.

ripple effect of what we do now when I do speak so directly for the

:47:05.:47:08.

workforce employed there, btt for the UK workforce as a whole and

:47:09.:47:11.

around the world. Madam Deptty Speaker, I would review that the

:47:12.:47:17.

carbon capture and storage has the potential to be of huge bendfit I

:47:18.:47:22.

will give way. Isn't the trtth at the moment that a a barrel ht is

:47:23.:47:28.

going to be practically no new investment in the North Sea. It

:47:29.:47:30.

simply is not viable. What hs our plan suggests for that width -- $29.

:47:31.:47:38.

One of the reasons we were key to explore the North Sea is for two

:47:39.:47:43.

reasons, one because there hs potential for the wall pricd to rise

:47:44.:47:50.

in the future. While we havd -- oil. What we have reached a foot

:47:51.:47:53.

structure with substantial `mount there. Now is the time that we

:47:54.:47:59.

explored the use that we can put that infrastructure, and thd short

:48:00.:48:07.

time. The fourth recommendation in the review was that the govdrnment

:48:08.:48:10.

needs to work with industry to develop strategies in different

:48:11.:48:15.

areas including carbon capttre and storage. One of the governmdnts own

:48:16.:48:21.

chief advisers on energy policy made the argument that it will bd very

:48:22.:48:24.

odd to produce legislation that did not specifically allow for the

:48:25.:48:30.

transportation and storage of greenhouse gases. The former head of

:48:31.:48:37.

Shells that we need some kind of strategic framework which in the...

:48:38.:48:44.

In my they're absolutely right. Some of the infrastructure in thd North

:48:45.:48:49.

Sea could be used to create an entirely new maritime industry with

:48:50.:48:55.

many new jobs. This will also help realize the commitments on climate

:48:56.:49:00.

change at the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State recently agreed,

:49:01.:49:02.

rightly. I am grateful to the shadow

:49:03.:49:10.

Secretary of State. While she may be correct that there is an

:49:11.:49:13.

opportunity, does she not agree with me to include that in this bill now

:49:14.:49:19.

would be to create an unnecdssary burden on the industry at a time

:49:20.:49:22.

when it is challenged in thd international market? Madam Deputy

:49:23.:49:28.

Speaker the wood review pointing to the need for the oil and gas

:49:29.:49:32.

authority to be able to takd a strategic view, it also pointed to

:49:33.:49:38.

the need for us collectivelx including government, to consider a

:49:39.:49:41.

long-term strategy for carbon capture and storage. It is our view

:49:42.:49:45.

on this side of the house that unless the oil and gas authority is

:49:46.:49:51.

passed with considering the future of carbon capture and storage it

:49:52.:49:54.

simply will not fault heart of the plan. As I said to his honotrable

:49:55.:49:59.

friend earlier, now is the time that we ought to be considering what the

:50:00.:50:04.

long-term future of the North the is. It simply cannot afford to wait.

:50:05.:50:09.

-- North Sea. I will say thhs, we believe strongly on this side of the

:50:10.:50:12.

house that it should not cole at the cost of jobs in the North Sda and

:50:13.:50:18.

the immediate term. We should not let our urgent need for short-term

:50:19.:50:21.

solutions include longer terms making. -- preclude longer-term

:50:22.:50:28.

thinking. CCS could be coming huge North Sea asset and that is why we

:50:29.:50:32.

are proposing that consider`tion beginning to the opportunithes that

:50:33.:50:37.

exist to use my fee ever sat there for CCS where this is econolically

:50:38.:50:41.

viable. Unfortunately, Madal Deputy Speaker since this bill was

:50:42.:50:44.

discussed by peers in the attumn which resulted in the bill that now

:50:45.:50:51.

stands before us, the chancd to look up the -- the Chancellor looked up

:50:52.:50:56.

the reckless decision that the promise he made to support new CCS

:50:57.:50:59.

projects in Britain during the course of this Parliament. This is

:51:00.:51:03.

one of the clearest examples yet of how this government is damaging

:51:04.:51:07.

confidence amongst those people that we need to invest in this country's

:51:08.:51:13.

energy system by once again chopping and changing energy policies without

:51:14.:51:18.

any notice. The mishandling of the government's CCS programme leans

:51:19.:51:21.

that the public will most lhkely pay at companies understandably seek to

:51:22.:51:26.

recover costs relating to the CCS project in Yorkshire on the Scotland

:51:27.:51:31.

that they progressed in good faith that will now not proceed. That is

:51:32.:51:36.

why I have written to the hdad of the national audit office and asked

:51:37.:51:41.

that he wants an investigathon so that we can fully understand the

:51:42.:51:46.

cost to the public of the Chancellor's sudden decision. It is

:51:47.:51:50.

also why we will seek to amdnd this energy bill to require the secretary

:51:51.:51:55.

of State to bring forward a new carbon capture and storage strategy

:51:56.:52:00.

within a year. Because, Mad`m Deputy Speaker there used to be consensus

:52:01.:52:03.

of this. The Prime Minister used to be a strong supporter of CCS to back

:52:04.:52:10.

in 2007. He said even though we have depleted the oil and gas fidlds that

:52:11.:52:16.

are ideal for testing the technology, not a single I'l at it

:52:17.:52:19.

get taking place in Britain. We cannot afford this delay. Hd was

:52:20.:52:26.

right then and he's wrong now. The UN's into government panel on why

:52:27.:52:31.

McCain has stated that if wd do not have CCS on a global gale wd are

:52:32.:52:35.

likely to see the cost of achieving targets on climate change bding

:52:36.:52:40.

double what they would be otherwise. These targets may even be ctt out of

:52:41.:52:46.

reach entirely. What she agree with me that there is a lot of

:52:47.:52:51.

opportunities for exporting CCS technology around the world and this

:52:52.:52:54.

is something which should bd taken up? I do agree and I also think

:52:55.:52:59.

there is a real opportunity for us to make sure that the British

:53:00.:53:06.

workforce benefits from the skills to be gained through investhng in

:53:07.:53:09.

this technology so that we can export not just the technology at

:53:10.:53:13.

the skills and knowledge of our workforce around the world. This is

:53:14.:53:19.

short-term, medium-term invdstment for our longer-term gains and it is

:53:20.:53:24.

important that we see it as such. Here in the UK, experts at the

:53:25.:53:27.

energy technologies Institute have estimated that without CCS H205 ,

:53:28.:53:31.

the cost of reaching our clhmate targets could be in the orddr of

:53:32.:53:37.

40-50,000,000,000 a year more than is CCS is deployed rolling out

:53:38.:53:42.

technology is that can cut the cost of loan condition is that is for

:53:43.:53:49.

taxpayers. That brings me to the other part of the bill which relates

:53:50.:53:58.

to wind farms. Can I ask my honourable friend if she agrees with

:53:59.:54:03.

me that CCS should not be concluded that at least... We lead thd world

:54:04.:54:11.

in technology for decades and because the actions of the party

:54:12.:54:14.

opposite we do not do it anxmore. We should have been doing it long

:54:15.:54:21.

before now. I agree. I am not keen to cast back into history and start

:54:22.:54:26.

casting blame but I would s`y to him and to the Secretary of State that

:54:27.:54:30.

this was a veneer promised not just to those industries and at those

:54:31.:54:34.

companies but also to those communities who stood to benefit and

:54:35.:54:41.

gain a huge amount from CCS. I particularly at the time whdn the

:54:42.:54:45.

government just announced 240 million investment for a colpetition

:54:46.:54:50.

on nuclear small modular re`ctors, it seems to me that what we are

:54:51.:54:55.

doing is creating a completd lack of confidence that any of thesd games

:54:56.:55:00.

will proceed and that is thd damage that these sorts of decisions and

:55:01.:55:03.

the way they are taken to. Not just in the short term but to our energy

:55:04.:55:09.

security in the long-term. We have to give a signal that Britahn is

:55:10.:55:13.

open for business and that the decision made by the Chancellor has

:55:14.:55:19.

done precisely the opposite. Madam Deputy Speaker there was once a time

:55:20.:55:23.

when the Prime Minister was so keen on wind farms that he even put one

:55:24.:55:29.

on the roof of his house -- wind turbines. Now the government are

:55:30.:55:33.

trying to legislate to closd out a scheme that have successfully driven

:55:34.:55:37.

investment into the cheapest low carbon energy source that is

:55:38.:55:40.

available to us today. Wind farms are already providing power to more

:55:41.:55:45.

than 8 million homes in Britain Once again, it will be energy build

:55:46.:55:51.

payers to pay the price for this short-term decision. The Institute

:55:52.:55:55.

for Public Policy Research has estimated that ruling out unsure

:55:56.:55:59.

wind farms and relying on other old carbon technologies to achidve our

:56:00.:56:02.

energy targets could increase cost to bill payors by up to ?3 billion

:56:03.:56:09.

through 20 30s and it will not just cost bill payors, it will cost jobs

:56:10.:56:12.

and growth in an important clean energy industry. Madam Deputy

:56:13.:56:18.

Speaker there is one area where we do agree with the government on

:56:19.:56:21.

this. And that is that wind farms should not be imposed on colmunities

:56:22.:56:26.

that do not want them. That is why we support the government's

:56:27.:56:30.

proposals to put local authorities in charge of approval for these

:56:31.:56:35.

projects. Yet the reality is that the government are using thhs bill

:56:36.:56:39.

to try to block wind farms dven where they enjoyed strong local

:56:40.:56:43.

support and they are taking such powers away from local authorities

:56:44.:56:49.

in relation to other areas. I am grateful that the Labour Party has

:56:50.:56:54.

made a U-turn because for ydars under the Labour government I argued

:56:55.:56:57.

that in the loathing wind f`rms on communities against their whll would

:56:58.:57:00.

lead to a backlash and would lead to the thing being brought on. That is

:57:01.:57:05.

what has happened and it is a bit late now for her to be things you

:57:06.:57:08.

want to listen to local comlunity. If we had done all along we could

:57:09.:57:13.

have had more on onshore wind turbines where they were designed

:57:14.:57:17.

rather than having the backlash resulting in the current situation.

:57:18.:57:21.

As the honourable gentleman often reminded me when I said on his

:57:22.:57:24.

committee is always right and usually long before everybody else.

:57:25.:57:30.

The truth is that we very mtch support the rights of local

:57:31.:57:34.

communities to decide. But we do not understand is why this government

:57:35.:57:39.

does not. Not just because through the real-time actions that they are

:57:40.:57:41.

taking through this bill thdy will effectively block wind farms where

:57:42.:57:47.

there is strong local support but also because in relation to fracking

:57:48.:57:51.

applications, the government is taking exactly the opposite approach

:57:52.:57:54.

and speaking to deny local communities he right to dechde what

:57:55.:58:00.

happens in their areas. The honourable lady has been very

:58:01.:58:06.

generous. My right honourable friend has pointed out that now whdn

:58:07.:58:13.

onshore wind is generating 0% of our generating capacity, at most when

:58:14.:58:16.

the wind is blowing it is sdven or 8%. Can she outlined the percentage

:58:17.:58:20.

of air generating capacity she would like to see from wind and if it is

:58:21.:58:25.

significantly greater than 8%, can she say how that will be done

:58:26.:58:28.

without him loathing wind f`rms on people that do not want thel? -

:58:29.:58:36.

imposing. He is wrong about the figures that currently over`ll when

:58:37.:58:39.

it generates around temperalent of our power in this country. ,- 1 % of

:58:40.:58:47.

our power. Secondly what I would say is that there is no question that we

:58:48.:58:54.

need to move forward towards a clean air energy driven economy. H think

:58:55.:58:58.

that he accepts that case as well as do two thirds of the British public

:58:59.:59:06.

who have said in a recent strvey, as late as September of last ydar, in

:59:07.:59:10.

April of 2000 adults conducted that they would be very happy to have a

:59:11.:59:14.

wind farm operating within two miles of their house, if the local

:59:15.:59:19.

authority or the local commtnity have power over how that was

:59:20.:59:26.

operated. That is one of thd reasons why I have said to the government we

:59:27.:59:30.

should not be seeking to block wind farms where they enjoyed strong

:59:31.:59:33.

local support, but we support the right for local communities to

:59:34.:59:39.

decide where they are based. Adam Deputy Speaker a book like the

:59:40.:59:42.

Chancellor has made the dechsion to sacrifice jobs and investment to

:59:43.:59:44.

sacrifice jobs and investment doing personal support from those that

:59:45.:59:48.

answers who have a particul`r obsession with wind farms. Ht is

:59:49.:59:52.

unacceptable and we will do what we can to defend wind energy from

:59:53.:59:59.

ideological attacks. The conservative party manifesto said

:00:00.:00:02.

nothing about retrospectively shutting down the existing team It

:00:03.:00:06.

was quite clear that they would stop new subsidies for wind energy. This

:00:07.:00:12.

is not a new subsidy, it is an existing one. Now that I have wound

:00:13.:00:15.

him up the Vesely I will happily give way. -- specifically -,

:00:16.:00:24.

sufficiently. She was being quite conventional intercom is whdther she

:00:25.:00:26.

would associate herself with the remarks of the former leader of our

:00:27.:00:31.

party who said that blocking wind turbines in local communitids would

:00:32.:00:37.

be anti-social behaviour? I say to the honourable gentleman th`t I

:00:38.:00:43.

think the key thing in relation to this debate is that we have to take

:00:44.:00:46.

communities with us. We havd to go to local communities, we have to

:00:47.:00:52.

make the case at to how we `re going to create job to provide endrgy

:00:53.:00:58.

stability, cut hill and takd action on global warming. If we do not take

:00:59.:01:01.

communities with us the truth is that we will not do any of that

:01:02.:01:05.

That is why I say to members on the benches opposite it is completely

:01:06.:01:09.

the critical to argue one thing in relation to wind farms and `rgue

:01:10.:01:12.

precise leave the opposite hn relation to fracking applic`tions. I

:01:13.:01:17.

hope that the Secretary of State has hurt me. Nor do they make sdnse

:01:18.:01:22.

Madam Deputy Speaker to clahm that this change is about afford`bility

:01:23.:01:26.

of Minister's that have consistently argued that all onshore wind farms

:01:27.:01:31.

are one of the cheapest opthons available to all but secure our

:01:32.:01:34.

power needs and when the government is pressing ahead with much more

:01:35.:01:39.

expensive options of. There was a question on the subject earlier from

:01:40.:01:43.

one of our honourable friends but I wonder if these bigotry as they do

:01:44.:01:46.

have yet to say the but perhaps could tell us today -- as bhg of

:01:47.:01:52.

state who had to say to clarify if onshore wind farms would be able to

:01:53.:01:55.

compete for contracts for difference. As for a view on solar

:01:56.:02:02.

energy as easy as this is another example of this government chopping

:02:03.:02:06.

and changing it energy policy to the detriment of investment and jobs

:02:07.:02:09.

growth and our energy securhty. Madam Deputy Speaker, more than

:02:10.:02:13.

anything what it energy sector needs as a whole in Britain is st`bility

:02:14.:02:20.

and confidence to get on and invest. I recognise in particular the

:02:21.:02:25.

urgency of supporting our North Sea oil and gas industry. I also

:02:26.:02:29.

recognise that peers proved this bill significantly since it was

:02:30.:02:32.

originally put forward by the government. That is why we will

:02:33.:02:36.

support this bill at second reading, but why I also hope that ministers

:02:37.:02:40.

will constructively engaged with the debate and are remembered in the

:02:41.:02:47.

weeks ahead. Is a great ple`sure to follow the honourable member. I do

:02:48.:02:54.

rise to welcome this bill, particularly the original vdrsion of

:02:55.:02:57.

the bill before the noble mdmbers got their hands on it and rdmoved

:02:58.:03:03.

clause 60 which would have delivered on a clear amendment that mx party

:03:04.:03:08.

made to the electorate before the general election. We promisd no new

:03:09.:03:16.

subsidies for onshore wind farm and to give local communities the final

:03:17.:03:19.

say on onshore wind farm applications. Failure to deliver

:03:20.:03:21.

that promise in its entiretx would be a failure to balance the interest

:03:22.:03:27.

of onshore wind developers with those of hard-working familhes in my

:03:28.:03:30.

constituency and right across the country. I also welcome

:03:31.:03:34.

strengthening the powers of the oil and gas Authority to ensure that we

:03:35.:03:38.

make the most from our reserves Madam Deputy Speaker, almost a year

:03:39.:03:44.

ago to the day I rose to introduce the onshore wind turbine saxs that

:03:45.:03:49.

its abolition bill to this house. -- subsidies have abolition bill. My

:03:50.:03:55.

bill had precisely the same objective as called 60 of this bill.

:03:56.:04:01.

I like to think it was a tr`ilblazer for the government's bill. H tabled

:04:02.:04:07.

the bill because it is essential that if we are to subsidize

:04:08.:04:11.

renewable energy sources, wd should support technologies which will

:04:12.:04:14.

actually reduce power wind we need it. Not just when the wind loads.

:04:15.:04:22.

Given that -- when Lowe's. Given that one-man subsidy is another

:04:23.:04:26.

man's tax it is crucial that we make sure the money we spent is that the

:04:27.:04:29.

White Queen. Onshore wind f`rms generate below 21% of their maximum

:04:30.:04:39.

out put words a few weeks a year and below their best ever nine with a

:04:40.:04:42.

year. Meaning they are failhng to reach maximum capacity for lore than

:04:43.:04:47.

half of the year. On averagd, they exceed 90% of their rated ottput for

:04:48.:04:52.

only 17 hours a year. There is also a very significant issue of whether

:04:53.:04:56.

these wind farms will be able to reach those heady peaks when they

:04:57.:05:01.

are actually needed. We are is - worthless bill of court Britain s

:05:02.:05:07.

wind farms pay large sums of money not to generate electricity. As much

:05:08.:05:12.

as ?1 million in each week of 2 14. Those payments... With the

:05:13.:05:19.

honourable member like to intervene? That issue about paying mondy if it

:05:20.:05:25.

is not actually being used hs not linked to renewable power. The

:05:26.:05:34.

second point is the honourable judgement of wanting to havd heard

:05:35.:05:38.

of interconnected, seeming to recognise in Germany there `re

:05:39.:05:41.

massively to the interim noble energy. He is in another century,

:05:42.:05:45.

the rest of us have moved on. I am an century that backed our

:05:46.:05:49.

constituent and want an effdctive energy sector that produces power

:05:50.:05:54.

when we need it. These paymdnts which are described as constraint

:05:55.:06:05.

payments failed... I am hearing what he is saying about renewabld, but

:06:06.:06:09.

isn't he making the case re`lly for a balanced energy policy because in

:06:10.:06:12.

the summer there is a need to switch off some the generation bec`use of

:06:13.:06:18.

low demand. It's very exhibhted a gas power stations, nuclear and then

:06:19.:06:23.

to Bremen back online. When a BGP and we do need as part of the mix

:06:24.:06:29.

that intermittent energy sotrce The honourable or makes a fair point,

:06:30.:06:33.

but unfortunately it would be fair if it was accurate because the wind

:06:34.:06:38.

has to be backed up by fosshl fuels. It makes no sense whatsoever. You

:06:39.:06:41.

have to take into consideration the full system cost of wind. On this

:06:42.:06:48.

point of these payments which are made, the constraint payments

:06:49.:06:53.

ultimately end up on our consumer bill. Meaning the public ard

:06:54.:06:58.

effectively subsidizing the UK went industry, not to produce

:06:59.:07:01.

electricity. You cannot makd this up Madam Deputy Speaker. As we move

:07:02.:07:07.

towards more and more reliant on the intermittent... I will give way

:07:08.:07:14.

Isn't that right that when we get to our coldest days in winter they are

:07:15.:07:18.

usually date of no clout and practically no wind and that is

:07:19.:07:21.

exactly the point where you need maximum power? My right honourable

:07:22.:07:26.

friend makes a privately fotnd point. Like today for example I

:07:27.:07:30.

think we are experiencing, H'll be more generous to me wind industry,

:07:31.:07:35.

1% of power today that has been generated by wind and we all know

:07:36.:07:38.

what happened in November. H will move onto a little later on. As we

:07:39.:07:43.

are more reliant on these intermittent renewable, with

:07:44.:07:48.

increasing dependency on offshore wind and solar,... I will ghve way.

:07:49.:07:56.

I think you are giving way. I live opposite a wind farm in his

:07:57.:08:00.

constituency though I do not blame them for preventing it the for

:08:01.:08:02.

preventing of the word Bibld that many people and Weber are on the

:08:03.:08:09.

issue of renewable energy and it intermittent is that the nulber grew

:08:10.:08:11.

to me that one farm which wd know very well in our area that we should

:08:12.:08:14.

be promoting more and biomass which not only supports thousands of jobs

:08:15.:08:21.

but also is a source we can use to turn on and turn off at will? My

:08:22.:08:28.

honourable neighbour is right. I applaud the work that the power

:08:29.:08:30.

station has done and also look forward to seeing biomass gdneration

:08:31.:08:36.

going ahead at line mouth which death came under new ownership. It

:08:37.:08:40.

is a much cleaner -- which just came under new ownership. It redtces

:08:41.:08:46.

emissions by about 80% and H would really like to see the government

:08:47.:08:51.

get behind more biomass. I `m sure it will have an exclamation as to

:08:52.:08:55.

why there might be revived for offshore wind but I would lhke I am

:08:56.:08:59.

asked to be able to play and fight on an even keel as these other

:09:00.:09:04.

technologies. There is incrdasing dependency on offshore wind and

:09:05.:09:07.

solar. The situation is getting worse not better. Our nucle`r

:09:08.:09:13.

stations when billed will ftnd part of the solution but cannot react to

:09:14.:09:18.

changes in demand or fail as in supply. Anything fast enough to keep

:09:19.:09:21.

the lights on. It can only provide baseload power which is important

:09:22.:09:24.

but not the answer to the intermittency problem. In these

:09:25.:09:31.

circumstances, it I will give way. The honourable member lectures us on

:09:32.:09:38.

intermittency but one of thd most serious aspect of intermittdncy in

:09:39.:09:42.

the UK is our ageing nuclear power plants which go off-line

:09:43.:09:44.

continuously with catastrophic effects on supply. Their pohnt and

:09:45.:09:53.

that is why we need new stations bill sooner. If previous governments

:09:54.:09:56.

were a bit braver we might not be in the situation that we are in now. In

:09:57.:10:02.

these circumstances, is it really wise to fade out all of the coal on

:10:03.:10:09.

the system before sufficient gap and biomass have been deployed to make

:10:10.:10:13.

the difference? Can I take that opportunity to ask the Minister to

:10:14.:10:16.

restate the government's amdndment that coal will only be phasdd out

:10:17.:10:20.

the system after sufficient biomass generation and are Dean brotght tour

:10:21.:10:26.

to make up for the loss? -- being brought forward to make up for the

:10:27.:10:32.

lost? Would he accept if we are going to get the dirtiest of fuel

:10:33.:10:35.

off the grid and clean our atmosphere we are going to have to

:10:36.:10:40.

date that as an objective as the government has done and onlx after

:10:41.:10:43.

the signal will we see the investment coming forward to replace

:10:44.:10:47.

it. It is not going to be phased out why would people invest? A fair

:10:48.:10:53.

point but we certainly need a bridging technology as well because

:10:54.:10:55.

we are going to have this g`p where potentially we could be days like we

:10:56.:11:03.

saw in early November. I fedl as generous as that because today. I

:11:04.:11:08.

will give way. -- I feel as generous as in the quads. -- Santa Claus It

:11:09.:11:18.

was an awful lot of people hn our area and secondly, the real concern

:11:19.:11:21.

that we had that the not agree, is that losing Jackson, their bridge,

:11:22.:11:27.

is going to potentially put a position where the light will go off

:11:28.:11:34.

and... We do need some cert`inty that coal will not lead to that I

:11:35.:11:41.

agree. It is another great advertisement for sustainable

:11:42.:11:44.

biomass because when we plax for the assets, the Fiji build thesd assets,

:11:45.:11:49.

let's let them for four dec`des biomass is the answer in thd

:11:50.:11:54.

short-term and who knows cotld be other technology we could bd using

:11:55.:11:57.

at these power stations at these power stations is that advertisers

:11:58.:12:00.

and powerful thought -- hydrogen power. Will you also accept that

:12:01.:12:11.

another reason for keeping coal generation, first of all it is the

:12:12.:12:15.

cheapest form of electricitx generation president and our

:12:16.:12:20.

competitors like Germany ard building new coal stations `nd

:12:21.:12:23.

therefore if it comes to retaining jobs here in the United Kingdom we

:12:24.:12:26.

have to be cognizant of that as well? I agree. I think it is tragic

:12:27.:12:35.

that we have sped up effecthvely the demise of coal in this country and

:12:36.:12:41.

he will be aware that the l`st remaining coal mine looked hn my

:12:42.:12:46.

constituency which unfortun`tely closed at the back end of l`st year.

:12:47.:12:53.

I really need to move on. I know... Go on. If the honourable melber

:12:54.:13:03.

shares my view if we are gohng with public subsidies trying to keep the

:13:04.:13:06.

lights on, why do we not subsidized the coal industry instead of at the

:13:07.:13:14.

honourable member said before continuing to burn at dirty coal but

:13:15.:13:17.

it is not dirty British goal, it is the article from places likd China

:13:18.:13:22.

and other places where hundreds of men are dying every month and year.

:13:23.:13:28.

Thousands are dying. It is lorally wrong that we burn coal and put our

:13:29.:13:35.

right as minors on the dog. I think the honourable member is right. If

:13:36.:13:39.

he was here at the back end of last or when we debated the closdr of the

:13:40.:13:43.

coal mine I think you will have heard that I very much echodd his

:13:44.:13:49.

intimate. At the end of 2014, Madam Deputy Speaker there are already 490

:13:50.:13:53.

operational wind farms in the UK with a near stall capacity of a

:13:54.:13:57.

point three gigawatts. The government estimates that in 20 --

:13:58.:14:04.

8.3. ?800 billion of direct support will go direct funding of onshore

:14:05.:14:10.

wind farms. In fraction of that sum could deliver reliable, low carbon

:14:11.:14:13.

and cost effective renewabld electricity that actually c`n react

:14:14.:14:17.

to changes in demand if it were diverted to more renewable, reliable

:14:18.:14:24.

renewable, such as the thinly sourced biomass. I use the word

:14:25.:14:30.

direct support on purpose bdcause the ?850 million only refers to the

:14:31.:14:34.

subsidies received being pahd to these wind farms. The inherdnt

:14:35.:14:38.

failings of the rent to League wind farms need to be compensated for by

:14:39.:14:41.

someone and back on that a cost If there is a risk that the wind.

:14:42.:14:45.

Blowing national grid had to ensure that it has deficient capachty to

:14:46.:14:50.

mitigate that risk. If a wind farm has a load factory of any pdrcent,

:14:51.:14:54.

grid had to make provision for generating the other 70% at the

:14:55.:15:00.

time. And of course if the new wind farm has to be built deep whthin our

:15:01.:15:04.

beautiful countryside or out at sea, where it is more expensive, national

:15:05.:15:08.

grid has to pay for new transmission lines. This all comes at a cost but

:15:09.:15:13.

these costs are paid for by all generators, not just the wind

:15:14.:15:17.

developers that caused the problem. It'd get another hidden subsidy for

:15:18.:15:24.

Wayne. -- it is another hidden subsidy for Wayne. This is ` prime

:15:25.:15:29.

example of a problem caused by a lack of conventional capacity for

:15:30.:15:32.

which on that very still dax the wind was not blowing and it cannot

:15:33.:15:36.

make up despite all the invdstment that we have made into wind, all

:15:37.:15:41.

generators and ultimately all consumers have to pay for the

:15:42.:15:44.

balancing action at the nathonal grid had to take. At a cost of two

:15:45.:15:51.

point ?5,000 per megawatt hour. That is something like 50 times the usual

:15:52.:15:55.

cost of power and at least hn part it is because we needed our costly

:15:56.:15:59.

when capacity when we needed it it simply was not available. In this

:16:00.:16:04.

regard I warmly welcome a commitment made by the Minister right

:16:05.:16:09.

honourable friend the minister for. Northamptonshire last week when in a

:16:10.:16:14.

written response to the honourable member she promised that in the

:16:15.:16:17.

first half of 2015 the government would publish research into the

:16:18.:16:20.

hidden cost so that we can see the old system cost of different

:16:21.:16:25.

renewable generation technologies and that these findings will be used

:16:26.:16:29.

to inform policy decisions. I hope that this is the first time that

:16:30.:16:34.

future contacts for different sources will not simply reldase new

:16:35.:16:40.

ways of intermittent renewable technology. We do have more sensible

:16:41.:16:44.

reliable renewable generation options available to us but the

:16:45.:16:48.

hangover for the previous government and our coalition will suffocate

:16:49.:16:57.

them unless we act. Of course, the man is the not stop with thd extra

:16:58.:17:00.

cost. There is a carbon problem also if they went turbine had an

:17:01.:17:05.

availability of 30%. Grid ehther need a vast number of other wind

:17:06.:17:10.

turbines is bred over the place of that viewing will be going somewhere

:17:11.:17:15.

hopefully or more likely, the grid needs a gas or a coal station on

:17:16.:17:18.

stand-by to generate for thd rest of the time. So, we are subsidhzing a

:17:19.:17:23.

wind turbine to push fossil fuel off the grid while simultaneously

:17:24.:17:27.

subsidizing a fossil fuelled power station Tuesday online and generate

:17:28.:17:31.

carbon dioxide were more th`n happy time while the wind is not blowing.

:17:32.:17:37.

Madam Deputy Speaker, you c`nnot make this up. I have to say that the

:17:38.:17:41.

same is true for an offshord wind farm albeit such a wind farl may

:17:42.:17:45.

have slightly higher availability levels. In conclusion, I recognise

:17:46.:17:50.

that the conservative government cannot make up for the mist`kes of

:17:51.:17:55.

the past with retrospective action. A deal if a deal and existing

:17:56.:17:59.

onshore wind is here Tuesdax. We cannot reverse the situation where

:18:00.:18:03.

we have banked our energy sdcurity on the vagaries of the weather, but

:18:04.:18:07.

we can put an end to the madness now. We can stop all new investment

:18:08.:18:11.

in onshore wind as we promised to do and think much more carefully about

:18:12.:18:14.

the case for investing in other intermittent technologies.

:18:15.:18:21.

Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. That is an interesting contributhon from

:18:22.:18:34.

the member. I agree with... It was full of problems but not many

:18:35.:18:38.

solutions. I think a solution of a balanced energy market allows for

:18:39.:18:43.

some of the flexibility for these things. The only thing I wotld agree

:18:44.:18:51.

with from the contribution, I do think biomass is a point. I agree

:18:52.:18:56.

that a deal is a deal. That it is not being applied to the onshore

:18:57.:19:02.

wind investors who have had deals scuppered. Matt interview Speaker, I

:19:03.:19:14.

welcome the opportunity to talk on this, and I think that it's

:19:15.:19:17.

important that we are getting around to discussing this. It is ndarly two

:19:18.:19:25.

years since the review to the UK Continental shelf which brotght

:19:26.:19:28.

forward a number of recommendations which commanded cross party support,

:19:29.:19:35.

and by and large still does. There are some issues about the ddtails.

:19:36.:19:41.

There is a degree of frustr`tion for myself and others within thd oil and

:19:42.:19:45.

gas industries that this is not being a swift as progress is a could

:19:46.:19:53.

of been. I think the delays in bringing Beadle Ford and uncertainty

:19:54.:19:56.

that it is caused particularly about the grace period following shore

:19:57.:20:03.

wind has been much more helpful The OGA is up and running and working

:20:04.:20:05.

very effectively. The OGA ott it oil and gas industry for thd work

:20:06.:20:22.

they have done I think the hold upon all of us to commit the work that

:20:23.:20:25.

has been done setting that tp. The team that is in place as impressive.

:20:26.:20:32.

What this bill will do is to give them the armoury of powers ht

:20:33.:20:36.

requires to assure that the UK Continental shelf thrives. Hn terms

:20:37.:20:42.

of the bill that we have, and I am going to speak largely to the bill,

:20:43.:20:47.

we do very much support the plans for the OGA and it will comd as no

:20:48.:20:53.

surprise to the secretary of state not so keen on the aspects `bout

:20:54.:21:01.

onshore wind. I do not think it is required for the need to be when the

:21:02.:21:04.

importance of the oil and g`s sector to members in this chamber. It has,

:21:05.:21:08.

as was 45 billion barrels of oil extracted.

:21:09.:21:31.

It supports 360,000 jobs with. I wonder whether he agrees with me

:21:32.:21:36.

onto things. One is why we `re building oil and gas, and sdcondly

:21:37.:21:39.

the court saying that we're subsidizing oil and gas bec`use we

:21:40.:21:48.

tax it slightly less. I do `gree very much with the comments. It

:21:49.:21:53.

struck me that the conversation around coal which was had moments

:21:54.:21:58.

before here there are parallels that could come to be if we do not

:21:59.:22:06.

support the North Sea going for I do believe that we need to

:22:07.:22:10.

transition away from oil and gas, but I think that would take some

:22:11.:22:13.

time given the economics at play. If we're going to be using oil and gas

:22:14.:22:17.

I think we will be in the foreseeable future, it might as well

:22:18.:22:21.

be ours. We might as well gdt the economic benefit from it, and we

:22:22.:22:24.

should use a economic benefht to try and diversify and invest in other

:22:25.:22:29.

areas. In terms of subsidies, I think the point there. The oil and

:22:30.:22:35.

gas sector is tacked very hhghly. Much higher than any other sector

:22:36.:22:40.

that I am aware of. It is ldss than it was, but it still probably

:22:41.:22:44.

requires to be less that we are to see the benefit. I will comd to The

:22:45.:22:51.

oil and gas Authority is vital to the future. Putting it on the firm

:22:52.:22:57.

footing, giving the regulatory powers of requires, and givhng it

:22:58.:23:03.

the ability to fully engage with industry roundabout access to

:23:04.:23:10.

infrastructure and plans for investment. I would very much

:23:11.:23:16.

support the government and `ssuring that that continued focus of the oil

:23:17.:23:23.

and gas Authority on maximizing economic recovery is fundamdntal to

:23:24.:23:32.

that purpose. There has been over the years of teen changes in oil and

:23:33.:23:37.

gas. It is one of the naturds of the industry in terms of its capacity to

:23:38.:23:46.

generate income. The goalposts have been changed substantially during

:23:47.:23:51.

that time. I would plead with all honourable members not to change the

:23:52.:23:56.

book. And. The industry has been working towards maximizing dconomic

:23:57.:24:00.

recovery proposals for two xears. It has universal buy-in. It repuires

:24:01.:24:06.

that focus for the OGA not to be confiscated, and to allow that to be

:24:07.:24:16.

done. Would he accept that the focus must be on economic regener`tion

:24:17.:24:20.

rather than further regulathon because the industry, espechally at

:24:21.:24:26.

this particular time, cannot afford to have lower-cost regulation quiz

:24:27.:24:31.

weight I would actually dis`gree. I would say the absence of a strong

:24:32.:24:36.

regulator. Particularly when it comes to access of infrastrtcture.

:24:37.:24:41.

The inability to get to parties with competing commercial access that

:24:42.:24:46.

would access the same piece of oil and gas infrastructure. It hs meant

:24:47.:24:52.

that the investment decisions in the past have not been informathve. What

:24:53.:24:58.

is required is a hard touch regulator. We are required, but I

:24:59.:25:02.

would hope that the threat of sanctions the OGA would havd will be

:25:03.:25:09.

enough in itself that they would not need to be required. I think the OGA

:25:10.:25:15.

recognise that themselves. Hf they have to issue sanctions, thdn it

:25:16.:25:26.

suggests that their influence is not working effectively enough. Where

:25:27.:25:31.

there is not compliance, bux into the idea of maximizing economic

:25:32.:25:35.

recovery, whether there is disagreements which are inhhbiting

:25:36.:25:39.

investments. That regulators should go wind and should go in hard to

:25:40.:25:45.

ensure that what everybody hs posted be working toward is delivered. He

:25:46.:25:54.

mentions the need for laser,like focus on any are. Is it there for

:25:55.:25:59.

the position of his party that the amendment and the laws around carbon

:26:00.:26:03.

capture and storage is not necessary at this point because it cotld risk

:26:04.:26:08.

taking away from that laser,like focus? That is, and the point that I

:26:09.:26:14.

am literally coming upon thd stage. I have spoken about carbon capture

:26:15.:26:20.

and many times, and I will continue to. We are in full support of that.

:26:21.:26:24.

There is a requirement I thhnk to get a strategy that the Honorable

:26:25.:26:30.

member talked about. At that review to have a strategy before wd can

:26:31.:26:35.

pose as a principal objective of the oil and gas authority. If you dilute

:26:36.:26:43.

the core functions of the OGA and distraction that attention. Let s

:26:44.:26:49.

remember, the OGA review coles from a time when oil was above $000 a

:26:50.:26:54.

barrel. That was the circumstances that were required to support the

:26:55.:26:59.

industry which was going through difficult times at a very hhgh oil

:27:00.:27:03.

price. Those pressures are luch higher today. I would agree that we

:27:04.:27:10.

need to allow the OGA to bed in the future. Once you have a str`tegy

:27:11.:27:15.

that can be demonstrated and has the support of the government from a

:27:16.:27:19.

financial point of view, but also from a strategic point of vhew. Then

:27:20.:27:23.

that may be something that xou would want the OGA to do. But at this

:27:24.:27:26.

moment, I think that it is premature stop. As a sec, the review comes

:27:27.:27:40.

from two years ago. Oil was at a 415 barrel...

:27:41.:27:44.

We have to accept that this is a vital step. And support what is a

:27:45.:27:54.

vital industry. It is not going to be enough in an of itself. We need

:27:55.:28:00.

critical changes to the tax regime, particularly about incentivds. I

:28:01.:28:03.

think we also need to review the tax level as a whole. I would lhke to

:28:04.:28:13.

quote the oil and gas UK economic from the Autumn Statement. He said

:28:14.:28:18.

since the last budget, the oil but the my price has fallen further We

:28:19.:28:22.

need to do as much as he can to help boost confidence and encour`ge

:28:23.:28:26.

investment in the UK. At thd oil price continues to be lower for

:28:27.:28:31.

longer there is little doubt, we need to work with treasuries on

:28:32.:28:35.

additional measures including revisiting the current tax rate

:28:36.:28:38.

Consistent with the governmdnt's commented to the sector's t`x rate

:28:39.:28:44.

this has to be approached. Given that they are about to have new tax

:28:45.:28:54.

raising powers, this is a rdal crisis for key UK economies. Would

:28:55.:29:01.

it be their policies to use those powers to raise funds to support the

:29:02.:29:07.

industry. I am not entirely sure how you would use income tax to boost

:29:08.:29:12.

bewailing gas industry, quite correctly. If he has any concrete

:29:13.:29:20.

suggestions please, by all leans. I couldn't understand. My

:29:21.:29:25.

understanding of the Scotland Act, I do not see where there is the

:29:26.:29:33.

ability to do anything with any effect to the fiscal regime. If he

:29:34.:29:42.

wishes to join with us and cause for Corporation tax or full physical

:29:43.:29:44.

economy, then he is more th`n welcome to do that. To suggdst that

:29:45.:29:50.

by the minimal powers that `re being devolved to Scotland in terls of tax

:29:51.:29:55.

revenue powers, particularlx from an economic point of view, to boost the

:29:56.:30:01.

business environment could be used to boost the oil and gas sector is

:30:02.:30:12.

at best naive. In current thme, the UK government is not collecting any

:30:13.:30:17.

tax revenues at all. I agred with him that there are reforms for the

:30:18.:30:24.

future. Could he give us sole impression from his constittency for

:30:25.:30:28.

about the industry what thex think is going to happen to jobs? The oil

:30:29.:30:36.

industry is going through a difficult period. There is ` fair

:30:37.:30:44.

degree of resilience. There is a fair degree of populism and what our

:30:45.:30:48.

difficult times. There is a concerted effort, and they will work

:30:49.:30:56.

through what they are doing. As that quote that I said, industry is

:30:57.:31:01.

making the effort it can to reduce its costs. We can do nothing about

:31:02.:31:11.

price of oil. But we can do something about the investmdnt

:31:12.:31:16.

climate which would be enhanced significantly with changes to the

:31:17.:31:22.

fiscal regime. Aberdeen is seeing job losses on a fairly size`ble

:31:23.:31:33.

scale. It is still a relatively I would say probably performing above

:31:34.:31:35.

average. I would certainly hope to continue to do so. It is not just

:31:36.:31:45.

about tax revenues in terms of. You have to factor in the full range.

:31:46.:31:50.

The income tax, national insurance, corporation tax paid by supplied

:31:51.:31:57.

companies. This is a major sector. I think if we can invest in the skills

:31:58.:32:04.

and ensure that we are bridging over, which will be temporary how

:32:05.:32:13.

temporary is a matter of. I am not going to speculate because H would

:32:14.:32:20.

look back. We do need that support. Changing the tax vision would send a

:32:21.:32:25.

powerful message to those who are looking at investment. That

:32:26.:32:29.

investment, if they are not making it in the UK Continental shdlf,

:32:30.:32:33.

because of the nature of th`t business it would be in west Africa,

:32:34.:32:38.

can't extend, Brazil. It wotld be in the Gulf of Mexico. It is not 0 sum.

:32:39.:32:45.

Precisely because the taxes being paid, unusually so. The tre`sure is

:32:46.:32:51.

not banking on North Sea oil to deal with what it requires to pax for. So

:32:52.:32:56.

that they can afford to makd the changes. The revenue forecast for

:32:57.:33:00.

the next year is low. Changhng it now means that that is viable. It

:33:01.:33:05.

would also send that very clear message that this is worth hnvesting

:33:06.:33:11.

in if there is investment h`ppening that are jobs that are still based,

:33:12.:33:15.

and the supply change is thd chain is supported. But also for the

:33:16.:33:22.

global oil and gas industry of Magnitudes bigger. The CD? H am

:33:23.:34:11.

sorry to disappoint you but I will be brief. I do not need to rehash

:34:12.:34:24.

the arguments, it is a clostre that it is a partially affecting

:34:25.:34:29.

Scotland. 70% of the pipeline will be there. I know the governlent has

:34:30.:34:37.

said that they will seek to reintroduce a closure to medt their

:34:38.:34:41.

manifest commitment. I urge them not to do so. If they do so we shall

:34:42.:34:49.

oppose it. Given that since 200 in Scotland fuel poverty has increased

:34:50.:34:58.

IQ and a half times 234% of the population how can he justify

:34:59.:35:02.

further subsidies which are paid by consumers being given to wind

:35:03.:35:07.

turbines the proceeds of whhch mostly go to large landowners? That

:35:08.:35:16.

is not a solution to fuel poverty. The solution is to insulate homes

:35:17.:35:23.

which there is huge investmdnt in Scotland. Disproportionally so.

:35:24.:35:29.

Bob... We have made various suggestions about how you would do

:35:30.:35:33.

that. Fuel poverty does not exist in a vacuum. There is a value of actual

:35:34.:35:42.

poverty. When these cheap in terms of renewables. The closure of the

:35:43.:35:49.

argument is that to say the next say the bill payers 30%. Your colleagues

:35:50.:36:06.

seem to want me to... I apologise to my right honourable friend. The

:36:07.:36:11.

honourable member talks abott how cheap onshore wind is as a

:36:12.:36:15.

renewable. Does he not accept that he has to be backed up by fossil

:36:16.:36:20.

fuels which are not cheap. Does he take into consideration the cost of

:36:21.:36:27.

wind. It is one of the least affordable technologies we have

:36:28.:36:39.

Fossil fuels are not so che`p. That sum does not quite add up. H'm not

:36:40.:36:49.

sure how he is quite worked out that equation. To move on quicklx, the

:36:50.:36:56.

changes to the planning regtlations that is not something I would

:36:57.:37:02.

oppose. I think in terms of this what is good for the goose should be

:37:03.:37:07.

good for the gander. I think policies about this should respect

:37:08.:37:12.

differing attitudes of the different nations of the United Kingdom. We in

:37:13.:37:16.

Scotland would like to see ` continuation of onshore wind. We

:37:17.:37:23.

would like to enable that to happen. That brings me to the idea of

:37:24.:37:28.

subsidy free contract for dhfferent mechanism which would provide the

:37:29.:37:33.

price stabilisation mechanism a route to market for it onshore wind,

:37:34.:37:44.

that cheapest form of regendration. That was there for your bendfit

:37:45.:37:57.

Finally my the Deputy speakdr, the proposals which would ban the

:37:58.:38:00.

ability of the government to use carbon accounting through UPN

:38:01.:38:08.

emissions trading scheme, that is something in principle my p`rty are

:38:09.:38:13.

not opposed to. We think it is premature, and agreeing that's in

:38:14.:38:19.

advance of the fifth carbon budget which is to come forward. To leave

:38:20.:38:29.

the European emissions tradhng system which is a European wide

:38:30.:38:34.

system which an odd tact to take for a party which is continuallx telling

:38:35.:38:40.

us how European they are. The only way to fix this is to get a proper

:38:41.:38:44.

European trading system not one that is going to price carbon solo. That

:38:45.:38:55.

is the way forward. I don't believe there was any suggestion to leave

:38:56.:39:02.

it. I would not suggest that you cannot use it, but what we should be

:39:03.:39:10.

doing rather than by carbon emissions and pass them off to our

:39:11.:39:14.

dear friends the continent, we should be that leader, that high

:39:15.:39:22.

ambition. We can tell them towards our own contributions and sdll them

:39:23.:39:27.

towards others who are not so good at dealing with it. In closhng, I

:39:28.:39:34.

see it as there are three aspects of this bill. We support at thhs stage

:39:35.:39:45.

two out of three of these and has people have said two out of three

:39:46.:39:51.

are not bad. I'm going to h`ve to propose a ten minute speech limit.

:39:52.:40:02.

Is a great pleasure to follow on from the two previous speakdrs. He

:40:03.:40:10.

made a very realistic speech. The member for Aberdeen South w`s

:40:11.:40:14.

amazingly complacent for thd primary industry for his constituents. It is

:40:15.:40:18.

going to suffer very considdrably for a considerable time. It is

:40:19.:40:24.

amazing to me that the Scottish naturalist -- Nationalist p`rty Are

:40:25.:40:34.

undergoing coal gasification. And tracking which might have provided

:40:35.:40:39.

an alternative for jobs for people in his constituency. Whenevdr we are

:40:40.:40:49.

on the spectrum on global w`rming, from sceptical to alarmist, we can

:40:50.:40:55.

surely agree on one thing, that we should try to achieve the t`rgets

:40:56.:41:00.

for which we are committed to reducing CO2 at the least cost to

:41:01.:41:07.

our constituents. They must bear it either through their budgets on to

:41:08.:41:18.

their jobs. When he found that subsidies are unnecessarily generous

:41:19.:41:22.

to achieve the targets, so that without changing those targdts she

:41:23.:41:27.

could reduce the subsidies H assumed the whole house would be in

:41:28.:41:32.

universal to what she was proposing. Even I, for once, was on her side.

:41:33.:41:40.

It was not so. There was calls from the green lobby and the opposite --

:41:41.:41:45.

opposition. Higher than necdssary for longer than necessary. To reach

:41:46.:41:51.

the targets. Key amendments in this bill seem designed to incre`se the

:41:52.:41:58.

costs of achieving our targdts. Cause 80 will not allow use of the

:41:59.:42:06.

emissions trading scheme. The whole purpose of the emissions tr`ding

:42:07.:42:09.

scheme is to ensure that those who can abate emissions of the lowest

:42:10.:42:15.

cost do so. By excreting thd use of that we are ensuring that hhgher

:42:16.:42:21.

costs are incurred to get abatement in emissions. Onshore wind of the

:42:22.:42:29.

Lord of the needed even thotgh that is quite unnecessary. I shall be

:42:30.:42:34.

supporting the front bench `nd having both of those amendmdnts

:42:35.:42:42.

removed. We have created a framework which commits us to load higher

:42:43.:42:51.

costs on UK consumers and btsinesses via the climate change act than any

:42:52.:42:58.

other country in Europe is committed to do. As a result, we will ensure,

:42:59.:43:06.

despite all that, we will ensure that the way the system works we do

:43:07.:43:14.

not reduce carbon monoxide hnto the atmosphere by one molecule. At

:43:15.:43:23.

Paris, all of the countries of the world agreed to put in commhtments

:43:24.:43:27.

as what they were going to do in the future in terms of curbing the

:43:28.:43:31.

growth of their emissions of CO . The only exceptions were thd

:43:32.:43:37.

countries of Europe. The global figure for the whole of Europe, and

:43:38.:43:44.

now to allocate that figure among the member states. We are committed

:43:45.:43:48.

to doing so much more than the average of Europe, and even anybody

:43:49.:43:53.

else in Europe, all of the dffect that has is to reduce the alount by

:43:54.:43:58.

which the other countries in Europe will have to reduce their elissions.

:43:59.:44:04.

We have increased the burden of costs on British households and

:44:05.:44:07.

businesses, reduce the burddn of costs that are partners in Durope

:44:08.:44:13.

will have to incur, and not reduce the emissions of CO2 by a shngle

:44:14.:44:19.

molecule. That is an extraordinary and to achieve. It has puzzled me

:44:20.:44:27.

for a long time how it is that we have a political class, particularly

:44:28.:44:36.

the green lobby which straddles both sides of the Greenway LAUGHTER Who

:44:37.:44:47.

are committed to such a perverse policies I did find a possible hint

:44:48.:44:54.

of an explanation. Someone lentioned to me, a book, I'm sure you have not

:44:55.:45:02.

read but have heard about. @ 40 shades of grey 50 50 shades of grey.

:45:03.:45:17.

LAUGHTER. Have I any higher bids? LAUGHTER There is a book, 50 shades

:45:18.:45:31.

of Gray, whose surprising popularity has demonstrated that sadom`sochism,

:45:32.:45:36.

the affliction of pain, and submission of pain are far wider

:45:37.:45:38.

taste that we had previouslx thought. It seems to me that it in

:45:39.:45:43.

the political sphere there hs a similar belief that it will be

:45:44.:45:49.

popular to inflict pain or to submit to pain by green policies. 40 shades

:45:50.:45:56.

of green, you might say. If something we are suffering from in

:45:57.:46:01.

this country. LAUGHTER The trouble is that members who are comlitted to

:46:02.:46:06.

this doctrine measured the success of their policies not by wh`t they

:46:07.:46:09.

will achieve, but what they will cost. Not by how effectivelx they

:46:10.:46:16.

will reach their destination, but how onerous the burdens thex can

:46:17.:46:22.

place on Virgin British households and British businesses. All of the

:46:23.:46:35.

costs of climate change polhcies, he came up to about ?1500 -- ?250 per

:46:36.:46:46.

household. The Honorable melber might disagree with the clilate

:46:47.:46:51.

change committee that he helped set up, that was the number that came

:46:52.:46:57.

up. It is set to double by 2020 to double again by 2030, and again by

:46:58.:47:08.

20... Both on the energy bills and the cost of more expensive products

:47:09.:47:11.

because that leads through product costs. The cost on jobs, we have

:47:12.:47:20.

lost the aluminium industry already, before the session we were saying

:47:21.:47:24.

how serious the impact on the job losses of the steel industrx was.

:47:25.:47:30.

The basic reason the job losses in the steel industry is there is a

:47:31.:47:35.

worldwide glut of supply. The reason evolved extensively on this country,

:47:36.:47:39.

is that our industrial energy costs are higher than anywhere else in

:47:40.:47:44.

Europe that is why we suffer disproportionately at the moment. We

:47:45.:47:53.

are importing bricks, I had lunch with a businessman who said 7% of

:47:54.:47:58.

his output comes from the UK. 2 % of his energy cost is in the UK.

:47:59.:48:05.

These green targets come he`vily on our country, and does not produce

:48:06.:48:14.

Kodak said it all. Producing even more carbon dioxide. My right

:48:15.:48:18.

honourable friend is right. This is another example of the pervdrse

:48:19.:48:22.

effect of what we do, that we impose costs on our own country and we do

:48:23.:48:29.

not achieve the objectives of reducing carbon dioxide emissions

:48:30.:48:34.

and not case the marginally increase that. I appeal to the House is that

:48:35.:48:41.

we start looking at this whole business in a rational way. Take all

:48:42.:48:47.

of the targets that we are committed to, I think it is unnecessary and

:48:48.:48:53.

unwise like the Honorable mdmber said. Let's take those targdts as

:48:54.:48:57.

given and seek the least costly way of achieving them. The least burden.

:48:58.:49:05.

The least destruction of industry and output, and not measure our

:49:06.:49:09.

success by how much pain he can inflict and how much harm and burden

:49:10.:49:22.

we can submit to. I am gratdful to him for giving way, and I al glad I

:49:23.:49:26.

got there before he sat down. I wanted to ask him they given that he

:49:27.:49:29.

is concerned about cost, whx doesn't he does accent that to nucldar

:49:30.:49:37.

energy. It is going to put lore strain on household budgets than

:49:38.:49:40.

anything renewables can do, and what is going to help us get emissions

:49:41.:49:44.

down for over a decade at the very least. When we did a report on the

:49:45.:49:49.

energy and climate change committee, I did vote against it for stch a bad

:49:50.:49:55.

reason. I was worried that we were committing to an unnecessarhly high

:49:56.:49:59.

cost. I am not against nucldar invincible, but I don't agrde with

:50:00.:50:06.

the right honourable lady that it is a much more costly than offshore

:50:07.:50:10.

weren't. It is less costly than offshore wind.

:50:11.:50:17.

On that I agree with her. I would be very happy if she would put Ford in

:50:18.:50:29.

motion, I would happily seconded, reducing the second E for offshore

:50:30.:50:32.

wind to be equal to those for onshore wind. I will happilx join

:50:33.:50:37.

her and not. I am in favour of reducing cost. I believe Madam

:50:38.:50:44.

Deputy Speaker that he is spanking the side of the park. I wonder

:50:45.:50:52.

whether he would agree with me that's the way we move forw`rd and

:50:53.:50:55.

introducing an element of the market is mechanism of bidding for subsidy.

:50:56.:51:09.

Is the right way forward? I agree. It was late in the day that we

:51:10.:51:14.

introduce that system. At ldast we encourage the minimum cost of

:51:15.:51:20.

subsidy rather than just pltcking a number which is inevitably going to

:51:21.:51:24.

be high. Civil servants are always generous with public money. Certain

:51:25.:51:32.

targets arts so that we can achieve an unnecessary expense. I agree with

:51:33.:51:38.

my Honorable friend, and I give away one more time to my honourable

:51:39.:51:45.

friend. I am grateful to my friend who is giving an entertaining

:51:46.:51:49.

speech. Offshore wind with ` price around ?140 of megawatts in our the

:51:50.:51:56.

industry expects to happen down to a by 20 20. It is likely going to be

:51:57.:52:02.

below the cost of nuclear and falling where as nuclear is going to

:52:03.:52:07.

be fixed the entire time. Mx honourable friend who is normally

:52:08.:52:12.

very a rational is being irrational. He is saying let's invest in

:52:13.:52:17.

expensive products and holds up the next generation will be che`per

:52:18.:52:21.

Then other people will be able to invest and compete with us. If it is

:52:22.:52:24.

going to be cheaper in five years' time, wait for five years and it and

:52:25.:52:33.

hear! It is a privilege to follow the unique speech of the right

:52:34.:52:39.

honourable member, and I bow to his greater knowledge of 50 or 40 shades

:52:40.:52:45.

of grey or green for that m`tter. It is also fair to say that he has

:52:46.:52:49.

taken a consistent position on these issues. He was one of the three

:52:50.:52:53.

members of this House, five members of his house, to vote against the

:52:54.:52:59.

climate change act. This was an act is supported right across hhs house.

:53:00.:53:03.

It won't surprise the House to hear that I am taking a slightly

:53:04.:53:06.

different perspective from him and my remarks. I want to focus on how

:53:07.:53:14.

this bill can be improved, Ladam Deputy Speaker. How it can be a

:53:15.:53:19.

better bill. The right question to be asking of any energy or climate

:53:20.:53:23.

bill before this House, givdn the scale of the challenge we f`ce, is

:53:24.:53:30.

is it doing everything necessary to meet our obligations and thd

:53:31.:53:34.

requirements on us to take ` leading role in tackling climate ch`nge I

:53:35.:53:38.

believe that things can be done to this bill to ensure that happens. Of

:53:39.:53:42.

course, with this bill, unlhke many other bills before this house. It is

:53:43.:53:47.

a very important event that happened in between it being introduced any

:53:48.:53:52.

other place as the second rdading today. That is the historic Paris

:53:53.:53:58.

climate change agreement. I did so, when she met her statement, but

:53:59.:54:07.

again I pay. My case to her to her and the House is to reflect the high

:54:08.:54:12.

ambition of parents and this bill. In particular, I want to set up the

:54:13.:54:16.

case for why the government in light of the Paris agreement to a

:54:17.:54:21.

long-term global goal of zero emissions, should use this dnergy

:54:22.:54:25.

bill to legislate here in the UK for the same objective. Zero emhssions

:54:26.:54:31.

with a date to be advised bx the Independent climate change

:54:32.:54:35.

committee. I want to thank lembers from across this house who H have

:54:36.:54:39.

talked to about this. The mdmbers of my front bench, members frol the

:54:40.:54:47.

Liberal Democrats, play an hmportant role as chair of the intern`tional

:54:48.:54:51.

parliamentarian committee. @ll Honorable members want to know more

:54:52.:54:55.

about this there is a paper published today which is up,to-date.

:54:56.:55:01.

My case is threefold. It is about consistency between international

:55:02.:55:07.

agreements, economic case, `nd about the effect we can have on other

:55:08.:55:14.

countries. First,... I will give way to the Honorable member. . Can he

:55:15.:55:21.

explain given what I set out the effect of us having commitmdnts

:55:22.:55:24.

higher than the rest of Europe simply reduces the amount of that

:55:25.:55:29.

they are committed under thd Paris agreement? If he is going to raise

:55:30.:55:33.

our target hired isn't he therefore reducing even lower the amotnt by

:55:34.:55:37.

which they will have to redtce their emissions to reach the EU global

:55:38.:55:44.

total? No, because the EU t`rget is set on the basis of aperturd and

:55:45.:55:47.

between different countries. We are one of the most important pdople

:55:48.:55:50.

contribute to that effort sharing. The more we do the higher the EU

:55:51.:55:55.

target can be. That is part of being in the European Union. And playing

:55:56.:56:00.

our role in raising the objdctive. I'm going to make some progress I

:56:01.:56:05.

first kissed her acting is `bout conspiracy between internathonal

:56:06.:56:07.

agreements and domestic acthon. When I set the 80% target and thd climate

:56:08.:56:15.

change act, the 80% by 2050, on a cross party basis we are at the most

:56:16.:56:19.

radical end of the spectrum. That was formulated to give us a fighting

:56:20.:56:22.

chance of keeping global warming below 2 degrees. Paris has crucially

:56:23.:56:28.

moved the world on premise. Paris said that objective 1.5 degrees to

:56:29.:56:37.

keep global warming, and we are already out 1 degrees, and secondly

:56:38.:56:39.

zero emissions coal. The long-term goal of zero emissions. I whll give

:56:40.:56:46.

way to the Honorable member. As someone who did not vote for his

:56:47.:56:50.

climate change, can I just `sk them to say what role does that

:56:51.:56:54.

legislation had in his view in the tragic job losses and steel and

:56:55.:57:01.

other energy industries in Britain. It is simplistic to say that the

:57:02.:57:04.

climate change act led to that. It is a whole series of decisions the

:57:05.:57:09.

government has to make. I m`ke this point to him and two other lembers,

:57:10.:57:19.

this is a number port in pohnt. Cost of not of not acting are grdater

:57:20.:57:24.

than the cost of acting. If we. . Look at the Pleasant besought! We

:57:25.:57:29.

are going to have more about. Coming soon to a constituency near you You

:57:30.:57:32.

can stick your head and the science, and I am sorry just accuse the

:57:33.:57:41.

gentlemen of that,. To be f`ir to the right honourable member, and she

:57:42.:57:45.

won't think of saying that, I do not think she was up. She is on the

:57:46.:57:50.

right side of this argument. Of course you have to do it at the

:57:51.:57:55.

least cost that you can. Let's not pretend, Madam Deputy Speakdr, that

:57:56.:57:58.

somehow this does not exist. We are seeing the effects of this `ll

:57:59.:58:03.

around the world. If we do not act we are going to have a lot lore of

:58:04.:58:07.

it. I will give way for a fhnal time. On this point of the steel

:58:08.:58:15.

industry in particular, while I agree with much of what he says in

:58:16.:58:17.

terms of damages, the perception seems to be also probably the truth,

:58:18.:58:23.

and time to act in this country what we have simply done is exploited and

:58:24.:58:28.

a lot -- export a lot of our admissions. This government when it

:58:29.:58:44.

was in Coalition. The point is not to deny that the transition easy

:58:45.:58:47.

take place, but do it in thd right way. I do not disagree with that. I

:58:48.:58:51.

want to carry on and make mx case. If the support of zero emissions

:58:52.:58:55.

globally, and that is what the Secretary of State has done, then

:58:56.:58:58.

the logical position is that we have got to supported mystically as well.

:58:59.:59:04.

Let's make this point. We sdt 8 % as a target. It does not make sense to

:59:05.:59:09.

have 80% of your target when you know from the global agreemdnt that

:59:10.:59:13.

we are going to have to get to zero. The second part is based on

:59:14.:59:16.

economics. I do want to say this particularly to members opposite

:59:17.:59:20.

that they are worried that ly proposal say that is going to risk

:59:21.:59:24.

off. I think the opposite is true. I asked them to listen to somd of the

:59:25.:59:29.

business voices who are sayhng that from their point of view thdy want

:59:30.:59:36.

us to set a target for zero emissions. Why? Because certainty is

:59:37.:59:41.

a friend of business in this area, and uncertainty is his enemx. This

:59:42.:59:45.

is what Richard Branson has set about a net zero emissions coal He

:59:46.:59:49.

said it is simply makes good business sense. It will build jobs

:59:50.:59:56.

and prosperity. He is joined by many other business leaders who `re

:59:57.:00:00.

making biscuits. By the way, Madam Deputy Speaker, just as it hs the

:00:01.:00:04.

right thing to do for busindss it is also the right thing for government.

:00:05.:00:07.

They're going to have to make decisions on the structure now

:00:08.:00:12.

22030, and it is right to m`ke those decisions on the basis of what we're

:00:13.:00:15.

going to have to achieve. And maybe in the second half of the cdntury,

:00:16.:00:18.

but we know that we are going to have to get there third, and

:00:19.:00:24.

finally, my case goes beyond our borders. Paris is a rate agreement.

:00:25.:00:31.

Its biggest weakness is that if you look at the aggregate of thd

:00:32.:00:34.

commitments made by other countries, the aspiration may be to lilit

:00:35.:00:41.

warming to less than 1.5 degrees, but when you added up it sedms more

:00:42.:00:44.

like three degrees were the commitments. Some people might say,

:00:45.:00:48.

what difference can mean a? We are only 1% of global emissions? Why

:00:49.:00:56.

does -- why do we have an ilpact as Mac does have an impact.

:00:57.:01:01.

They pushed the last governlent to do this. That had an impact. Not

:01:02.:01:08.

just in Britain, but around the world. When the secretary of state

:01:09.:01:12.

went to those negotiations `nd urged others to take action they weren't

:01:13.:01:16.

able to say to her you are pretending that you care about these

:01:17.:01:19.

things and want to legislatd for them, but you are not taking action

:01:20.:01:23.

in your own domestic legisl`tive. We did do that. I am not going to give

:01:24.:01:26.

way because I am going to lose my time. I will also say to thd House

:01:27.:01:31.

and those who are sceptical about action having been taken thd 20 5

:01:32.:01:39.

global legislation study looks at climate change legislation `nd 9

:01:40.:01:43.

different countries. It talks about the speed of response following the

:01:44.:01:47.

climate change act in the UK. My threefold case, Madam to thd

:01:48.:01:53.

Speaker, is around the fact that we need to have consistency between

:01:54.:01:57.

domestic and international `ction. It is the economic case, and the

:01:58.:02:01.

impact we can have on other countries if we act. I want to deal

:02:02.:02:05.

with two other points that light be made about why this is a bad idea.

:02:06.:02:07.

The first is that somehow wd should The first is that somehow wd should

:02:08.:02:11.

stick to our existing targets and should not worry about wherd

:02:12.:02:14.

ambition. Why do we need more ambition will be half this rumour

:02:15.:02:17.

got already in place? I'm afraid that is sticking your head hn the

:02:18.:02:22.

sand. If you have to get 20 emissions then you should start that

:02:23.:02:26.

process now. It is a hard t`sk, in task. We need to know that we can

:02:27.:02:32.

get there. My case is a pragmatic one. I am not saying plucked out of

:02:33.:02:36.

the air a date to get 20 emhssions. I am saying that we should get there

:02:37.:02:38.

in 2050. Some business leaddrs, look at these issues and advise

:02:39.:02:50.

government about where we should put this into UK domestic law. The

:02:51.:02:54.

second point, and I think this point was made in the individual, is that

:02:55.:02:58.

somehow we are going far too ahead of other countries. This is us being

:02:59.:03:03.

far too far out in front. I think the simple point I'd make about this

:03:04.:03:09.

is that we now have more th`n a countries that have signed tp to

:03:10.:03:16.

zero emissions coal. Every country is theoretically signed up `fter

:03:17.:03:19.

this goal. The question is `re going to do a? Is warm words or are we

:03:20.:03:26.

just going to pretend that we're going to act but not really follow

:03:27.:03:31.

through. Let the same concltsion Madam Deputy Speaker, I hopd the

:03:32.:03:34.

government will comport with such an amendment. If they do not I want to

:03:35.:03:38.

work with people across this house to see to make it happen. I think is

:03:39.:03:41.

something the government can support. I hope they come forward

:03:42.:03:48.

with an amendment. It would build the momentum of the Paris agreement.

:03:49.:03:52.

It is the best cross party tradition of the climate change act, `nd it

:03:53.:03:56.

would send a powerful signal around the world and in print about a

:03:57.:03:59.

determination to act. Above all I think it would increase our ability

:04:00.:04:04.

to tackle dangerous climate change. Notwithstanding the Constitttion

:04:05.:04:07.

from the right Honorable melber I believe it is something I c`n unite

:04:08.:04:12.

the vast majority of members across this house as I hope the government

:04:13.:04:21.

Thank you matter that the Speaker, it is great pleasure to follow the

:04:22.:04:25.

right Honorable gentleman for Doncaster North, and other

:04:26.:04:30.

colleagues who have spoken hn the chamber today. I don't think any

:04:31.:04:35.

more memorable phrasing will come into this debate than that of my

:04:36.:04:40.

right honourable friend in talking about 50 shades of green. I so often

:04:41.:04:46.

in this area of debate, people dispute the numbers. As he did with

:04:47.:04:55.

his initial 40 shades efforts. The threat of agreements to everyone who

:04:56.:04:58.

has spoken so far including my honourable friend the Member for

:04:59.:05:02.

Selby, my heart honourable friend and others is that if you are going

:05:03.:05:07.

to set out to fulfil the requirements of the climate change

:05:08.:05:10.

act, then you must do so in the lowest way. It therefore st`rt off

:05:11.:05:16.

as something else, I think the right honourable friend for carpeting was

:05:17.:05:21.

right to point out, that is the fact that with this burden sharing

:05:22.:05:25.

throughout Europe, there is an issue around where we step further, does

:05:26.:05:28.

it simply provide greater slack elsewhere? It would be, you may

:05:29.:05:33.

share my right honourable friend that this is him about the whole

:05:34.:05:37.

arena, it certainly not somdthing that any of us want to say, where we

:05:38.:05:42.

make progress, that somebodx else slacks as a result. Therefore,

:05:43.:05:46.

having a joined up approach is a sensible part of delivering what

:05:47.:05:49.

they all want and doing so `t the lowest possible cost. I think that

:05:50.:05:53.

is worthy of further investhgation. Where I don't think my right

:05:54.:05:56.

honourable friend is right hs to suggest that there is purelx an

:05:57.:06:01.

exercise in masochism, after the committee on climate change brief is

:06:02.:06:06.

to fulfil that which was passed albeit without his support hn this

:06:07.:06:11.

house, that is an 80% reduction by 2050, if you read their fifth carbon

:06:12.:06:16.

reports which recently came out the whole premise of that is to try and

:06:17.:06:20.

work out a pathway to get us there at the lowest possible cost. That is

:06:21.:06:27.

one reason why I welcome thhs new government and the new ministers in

:06:28.:06:31.

their place, reset of the policy. They are not, some of my honourable

:06:32.:06:37.

friend might wish they were. They are not stepping away from the

:06:38.:06:40.

climate change act, on the contrary they are saying they want to look at

:06:41.:06:43.

how best to make sure that we have a policy framework which incentivizes

:06:44.:06:48.

activity to meet the outcomds that we all want to see. I know from

:06:49.:06:52.

discussions with my honourable friend who is nodding in my

:06:53.:06:55.

direction not from the front bench, one of the issues around renewables.

:06:56.:06:59.

It picks up the points made by my honourable friend for Selby is to do

:07:00.:07:03.

with intermittency. One of the ways of dealing with it is to develop

:07:04.:07:07.

storage. Have we had suffichent investment or created a fralework to

:07:08.:07:12.

incentives and to devise storage and incentivize investment, the answer

:07:13.:07:17.

has to be no. What we have got to do is make sure we get a framework

:07:18.:07:20.

which captures all the elemdnts we need going forward to creatd a

:07:21.:07:24.

rational response so that even if he does not entirely agree, my friend

:07:25.:07:30.

and member for carpeting can see a more rational threat to link to

:07:31.:07:33.

these policy which is being put forward in order to deliver. I

:07:34.:07:40.

wanted to comment on the wall of the secretary of state to Paris to

:07:41.:07:44.

briefly to say she did play in the leading role in negotiations bear,

:07:45.:07:47.

Britain was at the table helping create a more ambitious deal there,

:07:48.:07:52.

it is important going forward. I would like to make a couple of. . I

:07:53.:07:56.

will give way to my honourable friend. Thank you, he mentioned

:07:57.:08:02.

Paris, I would be interested to understand in the global perspective

:08:03.:08:07.

why it was that the EU eye `m DC submitted by Paris comprise a degree

:08:08.:08:11.

of reduction in emissions, half the rate of the UK, why is it that the

:08:12.:08:17.

EU had decided not to follow us with the climate change act, and

:08:18.:08:20.

they know something we do not? He is they know something we do not? He is

:08:21.:08:25.

quite right, he often carrids around with him the list of the emhssions

:08:26.:08:30.

reductions since 1994 Europdan countries, and points out that those

:08:31.:08:35.

who made Austria for instance his favourite noir, the could of other

:08:36.:08:39.

countries like to talk about this topic and not deliver on it is

:08:40.:08:42.

pretty woeful. It goes back to my earlier point of needing to have a

:08:43.:08:45.

joined up approach. To make sure we do genuinely deliver collectively

:08:46.:08:51.

the outcomes that we desire. Thanks in part to my right honourable

:08:52.:08:54.

friend on the front bench effort, we did see ambitious -- omission from

:08:55.:08:59.

the EU raised, he did not go as far as the UK wanted to do. We did in

:09:00.:09:05.

2008, with cross party support, unilaterally decide on a pathway for

:09:06.:09:09.

his country to 80% reductions to 2050. I give way. I agree whth what

:09:10.:09:16.

my Honorable friend is saying. We also agreed that where the TK leads

:09:17.:09:23.

as was outlined earlier by the former Leader of the Opposition

:09:24.:09:25.

very often other countries hn the EU will follow. Our niece with Sweden

:09:26.:09:30.

is considering implementing its own climate change act based on UK

:09:31.:09:34.

legislation. It is important not to exaggerate that, it will quhte

:09:35.:09:38.

rightly be picked up by colleagues who pointed out that somethhng has

:09:39.:09:44.

all-encompassing and specifhc and as a road map if you want to use that

:09:45.:09:47.

term as our climate change `ct has probably never been passed by

:09:48.:09:50.

another country in the wall, it has been coming up eight years `nd it

:09:51.:09:53.

happened. My Honorable friend is right, it is worth seeing in it so

:09:54.:09:57.

if I have time on the context by deputy speaker, if we are sdeing

:09:58.:10:01.

turning point. The idea we `re sorely in this state of masochistic

:10:02.:10:05.

way in inflicting pain on otrselves while others deny themselves these

:10:06.:10:09.

pleasures, I don't think is correct. According to Bloomberg the new

:10:10.:10:15.

energy finance, last year s`w record investment in clean power. With an

:10:16.:10:20.

increase of $329 billion, that is despite the fall in oil and gas

:10:21.:10:25.

prices. In other words, the regulatory and legal frameworks set

:10:26.:10:30.

up across the world, and thd global organisation which I might declare

:10:31.:10:34.

an interest in that Hamas h`s I hope played a part in helping crdate

:10:35.:10:40.

those remarks around the world. I also want to say that the Chinese

:10:41.:10:47.

renewables investment last xear hits $111 billion, 111 billion, 07% up

:10:48.:10:52.

while the US investment in renewables went up to $56 bhllion up

:10:53.:10:59.

to 7.5%, although this does, the auger context to put is to go to my

:11:00.:11:02.

Honorable friend's point in Europe. We saw the lowest level of

:11:03.:11:08.

investment in renewables sent 2 06 last year, collectively across

:11:09.:11:12.

Europe while we may be delivering Europe is not doing entiretx as one

:11:13.:11:20.

might hope that it would. On the subject of onshore wind, can I

:11:21.:11:24.

welcome the Government's colmitment to look at the whole system cost? Of

:11:25.:11:30.

all these renewables? My understanding is that onshore wind

:11:31.:11:32.

is the cheapest renewables be currently have. There are issues

:11:33.:11:35.

around the back up is required, what we need to have is an objective

:11:36.:11:39.

assessment of what that cost is so we can make a proper judgemdnt of

:11:40.:11:45.

the benefits of one form of clean energy versus another. For hnstance,

:11:46.:11:49.

against biomass which my Honorable friend was so keen to champhon.

:11:50.:11:54.

Until we have that clarity over what the real costs are, it is h`rd to

:11:55.:11:58.

create the framework incenthves that we want to bring on the cle`n as

:11:59.:12:02.

possible transformations at the lowest possible cost. On thd issue

:12:03.:12:12.

of zero emissions, I wanted to follow the right honourable

:12:13.:12:16.

gentleman who spoke before le, he is right. If we are going to ddliver 2

:12:17.:12:23.

degrees, let alone one and ` half degrees, then we are going to need

:12:24.:12:27.

to move to what sounds slightly fantastical, an idea that wd can

:12:28.:12:32.

move 20 emissions. Of coursd, if we can entirety the carbonize the power

:12:33.:12:38.

system, and then with that power is used in other systems, then use

:12:39.:12:43.

start to move towards the ability to eradicate, most of our apartment and

:12:44.:12:47.

then we do still meet and wd have some time to develop it, we need

:12:48.:12:51.

other ways in order to change our systems so that any that we have

:12:52.:12:59.

storage, that offsets the elissions which are not avoidable. Thdy are

:13:00.:13:03.

going to be emissions regardless in a developed and industrialised

:13:04.:13:09.

world, what is possible is that we can net that to zero. It is an

:13:10.:13:14.

important point to make in case any people at home are thinking we are

:13:15.:13:17.

dealing in science fiction rather than reality. I have given the

:13:18.:13:20.

progress in technologies th`t we have seen over recent years, it is

:13:21.:13:25.

credible, at least to believe that we can move 20 emissions I think one

:13:26.:13:30.

and a half degrees is going to be achieved given modern science. That

:13:31.:13:36.

is going to be necessary. The government is doing a reset, the

:13:37.:13:41.

government will guide June of this year, come forward to legislate on

:13:42.:13:44.

the fifth carbon budget which covers the distant years of 2028, two 032

:13:45.:13:50.

from memory and by the end of the year is going to produce a

:13:51.:13:55.

government strategy to deliver that. I think that is welcome, wh`t we

:13:56.:13:59.

need going forward is something much more coherent than the renewables

:14:00.:14:04.

system, we need something which uses options which delivers it the

:14:05.:14:08.

secretary of state has said, a market driving up costs in which

:14:09.:14:12.

government is out of the wax to maximise extent it can be although

:14:13.:14:17.

in the meantime, it has to be said why are we investing in expdnsive

:14:18.:14:21.

energies like offshore wind? It would not buy be be invested

:14:22.:14:25.

otherwise, but that investmdnt is driving the cost down. I wotld say

:14:26.:14:29.

to those who are more scepthcal that you look at the way the prices have

:14:30.:14:33.

come down look at the way prices have gone down in offshore wind

:14:34.:14:36.

look at the way prices have come down in offshore wind, I thhnk

:14:37.:14:43.

therefore actually whatever the current eddies in investor

:14:44.:14:46.

confidence, going forward whth these particular ministers, committed as

:14:47.:14:51.

they are, both to delivering our climate obligations, but dohng so in

:14:52.:14:54.

the lowest cost most coherent manner we are in exactly the right position

:14:55.:14:58.

we should be. I am delighted to say I will be supporting this bhll

:14:59.:15:06.

tonight. It is a pleasure to follow the Honorable member, who m`de a

:15:07.:15:11.

number of points of which I agree. Also, before that my right

:15:12.:15:18.

honourable friend for who m`de such a contribution to this debate, I am

:15:19.:15:21.

so pleased to see that you `re continuing continuing to do that.

:15:22.:15:26.

Also, before I start the pohnt, I want to place on record my thanks to

:15:27.:15:32.

the Secretary of State for the excellent job she did in Paris. I am

:15:33.:15:35.

sure those comments will be passed onto her. She did that on bdhalf of

:15:36.:15:38.

us I think we are all delighted with the outcome of the Paris talks. This

:15:39.:15:44.

is a wide-ranging bill, I would like to focus my short time on the

:15:45.:15:47.

renewables element of the bhll and in particular your global obligation

:15:48.:15:55.

for onshore wind. And how this is impacting negatively on invdstment

:15:56.:15:58.

in the northeast of England. Am fully aware of it government's

:15:59.:16:03.

concerns about the financial integrity of the framework. Indeed,

:16:04.:16:07.

I share these concerns, we need a fully funded functioning control

:16:08.:16:12.

framework to fund clean energy environments. As the levee control

:16:13.:16:16.

framework is funded by Bill payors, it is absolutely crucial th`t we

:16:17.:16:21.

protect it and enter a valud for money. Yet, this bill does not do

:16:22.:16:25.

that, in terms of the impact on consumer bills, the impact

:16:26.:16:30.

assessment demonstrates that in the government's central scenarho, this

:16:31.:16:35.

policy is projected to save the payors to keep it, in terms of the

:16:36.:16:39.

framework in the government central scenario, this policy is prddicted

:16:40.:16:42.

to save ?20 million out of the budget in 2021 of ?7.9 billhon. This

:16:43.:16:49.

measure does not appear to be protected bill payors at all, rather

:16:50.:16:54.

it seems to fit for the purpose of the appeasing climate changd

:16:55.:16:58.

sceptics. The Prime Minister rightly reiterated last week his colmitment

:16:59.:17:02.

to the carbonize thing at the lowest cost to the consumer, and for that

:17:03.:17:07.

he has my support. Yet the secretary of state is going about this in an

:17:08.:17:10.

odd way, the government means committed to the EU nubile directive

:17:11.:17:17.

for which the UK must sourcd 20 of its energy needs for nubile sources

:17:18.:17:22.

by 2020. We also have a fixdd budget for clean energy in the lobby

:17:23.:17:27.

framework. I wonder if the Linister would explain how in the target and

:17:28.:17:32.

a fixed budget replacing thd cheapest renewable electors of the

:17:33.:17:36.

technology which is onshore wind with more expensive technology such

:17:37.:17:40.

as offshore wind can possibly lead to lower bills for consumers and

:17:41.:17:46.

maintain the financial integrity of the control framework. In its July

:17:47.:17:53.

2015 report, the Office for Budget Responsibility for cast ?1.6 billion

:17:54.:18:01.

overspend in 2021 due to high date of tax on our own. Greater capacity

:18:02.:18:05.

from offshore wind and the work whole thing elected to the price is

:18:06.:18:09.

due to the lower than forec`st gas prices and the freezing of the

:18:10.:18:13.

carbon rice flour. No one is blaming the government for not anticipating

:18:14.:18:18.

this remarkable fall in global energy prices. However, in their

:18:19.:18:20.

efforts to restrain this potential overspend, the government is doing

:18:21.:18:26.

serious damage to the UK's clean energy future. In the investment we

:18:27.:18:29.

need to encourage low carbon generation. Could you

:18:30.:18:35.

The subsidies for onshore whnd and companies looking in my constituency

:18:36.:18:43.

will be hit by a double whalmy woodcuts to the terror and the

:18:44.:18:46.

proposed to increase back for residential solar. But she `greed

:18:47.:18:51.

that it difficult for any rdnewable energy business or invested to trust

:18:52.:18:54.

this government given as thd Trail of the sector? -- betrayal `llowed

:18:55.:19:06.

to give a specific example which is relevant to my constituents but also

:19:07.:19:10.

speaks to the way in which the policies of this government have

:19:11.:19:13.

suffocated the growth of cl`im energy generation and the jobs that

:19:14.:19:22.

come with it. The defensive for energy and climate change rdcently

:19:23.:19:24.

regarding a privilege and investment pound that they wish to makd an

:19:25.:19:29.

astounding wind farms on thd site, which I understand that havd not

:19:30.:19:33.

received yet. The aim of thd project is to generate more inclement energy

:19:34.:19:39.

on-site, so they can procurd left my side. However the government

:19:40.:19:45.

announcement on the renewables obligation and onshore wind has

:19:46.:19:48.

placed this development in serious jeopardy. Under current proposals,

:19:49.:19:53.

her investment will not go `head because it had not secured

:19:54.:19:58.

commission or agreements by the time of the announcement. They'vd been

:19:59.:20:02.

working with the Department for business and skills that had

:20:03.:20:09.

application for the and accdpted, however the condition of thhs

:20:10.:20:14.

funding is that part cannot commence on a project, such as punny

:20:15.:20:19.

applications or negotiations until the support application has been

:20:20.:20:24.

determined. In the words, they currently find themselves in a

:20:25.:20:30.

Catch-22 position. They are unable to see the necessary approv`ls

:20:31.:20:34.

before the cutoff date, and the continuation of the regional growth

:20:35.:20:40.

fund programme was not confhrmed until after the 25th general

:20:41.:20:48.

election -- 2015. Was based on eligibility under the oblig`tion,

:20:49.:20:51.

without this department cannot go ahead. My Honorable friend, raced a

:20:52.:21:02.

specific point at PM queues last week. The Prime Minister answer the

:21:03.:21:07.

point in generality, and did not address this specific point. This is

:21:08.:21:14.

the sure a project I believd the government should be encour`ging,

:21:15.:21:20.

not suffocating. This project on a brown field site from a major

:21:21.:21:23.

company which wants to reduce its carbon footprint, and hence the UK

:21:24.:21:29.

energy security, and support onshore wind industry, that now employs some

:21:30.:21:34.

19,000 people, ran out not be going ahead. Should the evidence of a

:21:35.:21:37.

policy that is not serving the best interests of this country. H would

:21:38.:21:44.

have to sit of stare as thex issue not done so to engage at thd

:21:45.:21:49.

earliest possible opportunity, says something can be achieved. Ht is the

:21:50.:21:53.

sort of confused and confiddnt the policymaking that many find so

:21:54.:21:58.

frustrating. The independent committee on climate change and

:21:59.:22:02.

stated that the government policy is created a stop start investlent

:22:03.:22:07.

profile, which has tended cost reduction and industry development.

:22:08.:22:10.

This has been compounded by the prospective changes, but thd ones to

:22:11.:22:16.

the ones in the bill. It coles as no surprise that the UK has followed on

:22:17.:22:19.

the global lead for energy investment. So it under this

:22:20.:22:26.

government, the UK has falldn from fourth in the world in Novelber 2013

:22:27.:22:33.

to 11. Singled out the UK Government for a lack of clarity, diamond of

:22:34.:22:38.

cuts and not misguided short-term politics obstructing long-tdrm

:22:39.:22:45.

policymaking, in a vacuum whth no rush and not appear intent. What

:22:46.:22:50.

does that Beckham the like hn real terms? Looks like cheap, cldan

:22:51.:22:56.

onshore wind and solar subshdies are being heard, while developers are

:22:57.:23:01.

being sent to store generators, second and carbon intensity on this

:23:02.:23:08.

site. A thousand stored in the last 18 months because policy has led to

:23:09.:23:13.

such narrow margins this qu`rter. This was not what energy policy

:23:14.:23:20.

should lead to the 21st century That back and looks like UK solar

:23:21.:23:27.

capacity falling 30% year on year in 2015, despite the global trdnd that

:23:28.:23:35.

looks like energy... The abolition of these zero, funded, which to

:23:36.:23:44.

interest rates. It looks like my and carbon stored in the UK, despite

:23:45.:23:52.

being... That the CCS is not an option for the carbonized n`tion. In

:23:53.:23:56.

particular, for energy intensive industries. The fight finance

:23:57.:24:02.

interventions, claiming that power is being devolved to local

:24:03.:24:06.

communities, but then sing `s we did in last Parliament unpreceddnted

:24:07.:24:09.

intervention in Whitehall bx the routable numbers. I hope thd

:24:10.:24:16.

Secretary of State will agahn propose, and what they're doing with

:24:17.:24:22.

generally a brown energy. No one has a monopoly on this, but when you

:24:23.:24:26.

have the clean energy bill developers against you, we have the

:24:27.:24:31.

independent committee of commentaries detailing its fierce,

:24:32.:24:35.

with global... So you follow down the global league tables, and when

:24:36.:24:39.

your on impact assessment description argument about loney

:24:40.:24:44.

seven, perhaps it is time to come reconsider some of these issues We

:24:45.:24:52.

have plenty of time for this debate, but there is also a very large

:24:53.:24:56.

number of people who wish to speak for almost my friend I will have to

:24:57.:24:59.

reduce the time limit to nine minutes.

:25:00.:25:05.

Is a privilege to take part in this debate, have also many incisive

:25:06.:25:11.

contributions so far this evening. In doing so, I very much welcome

:25:12.:25:16.

this wide range of bills, fhrstly for the support it provides oil and

:25:17.:25:22.

gas industries, which is suffering as many have said greatly from the

:25:23.:25:27.

fall and global world prices at the moment. As we have also heard,

:25:28.:25:33.

across the chamber so far, lembers know very well the industry makes a

:25:34.:25:38.

substantial contribution to our energy security, employment, and

:25:39.:25:41.

overall economic well-being. The establishment of a new arms length

:25:42.:25:46.

body charged with regulating the sector is an important step in the

:25:47.:25:53.

right direction. However, collective focus my contribution on part five

:25:54.:25:58.

of the bill. -- I would likd to The manifesto commitment to end in new

:25:59.:26:04.

public subsidies for onshord wind and provide local communitids the

:26:05.:26:11.

final say on punny applicathons -- planning. I speak as a membdr who...

:26:12.:26:18.

Fighting plans for an directly inappropriate when combined. -- wind

:26:19.:26:29.

combines. Every single time, it was a developer who were trying to

:26:30.:26:34.

impose their turbines on local communities who simply did not want

:26:35.:26:39.

him. This was entirely unacceptable and I am pleased that every one of

:26:40.:26:44.

these applications got rejected by the local authority. We need in the

:26:45.:26:52.

current system by which devdlopers pocket to lucrative taxpayer

:26:53.:26:55.

subsidies and communities are stuck with their turbines and thehr local

:26:56.:26:58.

neighbourhood and suffer thd problems that come with him. It is

:26:59.:27:02.

always right that local comlunities, not politicians and the chalber

:27:03.:27:08.

should have the final say over whether planning for a new wind farm

:27:09.:27:14.

should be corrected. I am vdry pleased by the opposition front

:27:15.:27:21.

bench have accepted this, only 8 months ago the labor council and

:27:22.:27:26.

your were proposing to answdr those great cathedral city went up to 14

:27:27.:27:32.

wind turbines. Thankfully, the labor Council instigated this ins`ne lost

:27:33.:27:37.

office at last year's local elections. This was only to be

:27:38.:27:45.

expected. With the which is of local residents were completely ignored.

:27:46.:27:52.

As my Honorable friend menthoned, and he does assert to the

:27:53.:27:57.

countryside across North Yorkshire and neighbour is writing can

:27:58.:28:01.

appreciate the area has now taking more than its fair share of wind

:28:02.:28:07.

farms. The cruel irony is that there are ultimately being funded by the

:28:08.:28:12.

very local communities who `re so deeply opposed to them. I'm

:28:13.:28:16.

delighted that the Secretarx of State has a grasp the metal and

:28:17.:28:21.

pushed for the early closurd of the noble obligation scheme. An

:28:22.:28:26.

endeavour which he has the full support of the overwhelming majority

:28:27.:28:32.

of my constituents. It is a great shame that all too often we are

:28:33.:28:37.

talking about energy we overlook the energy Tyler, you need to ensure

:28:38.:28:43.

that our energy is affordable, secure, and environmentally

:28:44.:28:49.

friendly. We often focus on the final considerations that nded to

:28:50.:28:52.

determine eyes. When one has to be done to push down the cost of

:28:53.:28:56.

household bills and increasd capacity levels. Any governlent that

:28:57.:29:01.

pays lip service to our futtre energy security, it is playhng

:29:02.:29:06.

Russian roulette with our country's future. We need a balanced dnergy

:29:07.:29:12.

makes to deliver that securhty. As has been mentioned, without action,

:29:13.:29:21.

funds for economic turbines are draining resources away frol other

:29:22.:29:26.

less intrusive funds of rendwable energies, that the play a kdy role

:29:27.:29:31.

in securing our energy security for the future. I agree with hil on the

:29:32.:29:41.

issue of giving communities the final say on wind turbines, but as

:29:42.:29:44.

he agreed that going four for we need to ensure where wind ttrbines

:29:45.:29:50.

have that local support, thdy should be not at a disadvantage colpared to

:29:51.:29:55.

any other form of energy, and is built to get involved in thd CFT

:29:56.:30:07.

mechanism the map... I think it is important that should be colmunities

:30:08.:30:11.

lead. There are places wherd you get community support for onshore wind

:30:12.:30:15.

that must be seen through. H'll go one step further... Back to energy

:30:16.:30:32.

security and other forms, on offshore wind and the North Sea they

:30:33.:30:37.

have the potential to gener`te far more Grenoble energy than onshore

:30:38.:30:40.

wind farms can't do, so and a way that does not -- in aware that does

:30:41.:30:48.

not the countryside. The Secretariat of State mentioned in her opening

:30:49.:30:51.

statement further investment and stated and other insider ardas of

:30:52.:30:59.

the noble energy. -- secret`ry. And that lowers bills and improves

:31:00.:31:03.

energy security. Tidal energy is one of the many avenues of renewable

:31:04.:31:09.

energies that has yet to bedn a flood on an adjusters scale like

:31:10.:31:13.

wind and solar has. That's industrious. I am very pleased to

:31:14.:31:22.

hear what I think is support for tidal energy and would therdfore

:31:23.:31:27.

like to seek his views on the fact that the government seems to be

:31:28.:31:29.

continuously prevaricating over the approval of the Swansea Bay tidal

:31:30.:31:35.

lagoon project in my constituency, which would generate huge alounts of

:31:36.:31:42.

clean energy, thousands of jobs but the sold out for the steel hndustry,

:31:43.:31:46.

why then is the government taking so long to get its answer on proposals

:31:47.:31:55.

made by the team? Every demonstrator or secretary can answer that. That's

:31:56.:32:03.

maybe the Minister. I love to say I support the Swansea based g`me, as a

:32:04.:32:07.

member of the select committee I hope we can go out and visit that

:32:08.:32:12.

and see what is going on thdre and look in more detail at this game.

:32:13.:32:20.

That might be something that we should push for because it hs a

:32:21.:32:27.

ground-breaking move again hn other areas of titled generation. --

:32:28.:32:37.

title. It is essential that taxpayer funded subsidies accommodatd bids

:32:38.:32:41.

from all sectors in the rendwable energy so we can sell for green

:32:42.:32:46.

technologies of the future. I would welcome an assurance of the Minister

:32:47.:32:50.

that this will be a relevant consideration in the award of future

:32:51.:32:56.

support to the noble industry. With the right framework, we could become

:32:57.:33:00.

a world leader in tidal energy as I've already mentioned. It would

:33:01.:33:06.

help us in our efforts to m`intain a diverse energy mix to ensurd

:33:07.:33:11.

security of supplies. Only by embracing potential technology

:33:12.:33:18.

enhancements, can we realisd our bowl commitments that we have paid

:33:19.:33:24.

for tomorrow at the recent terror summit. We need a more dynalic and

:33:25.:33:31.

figure energy mix that focuses on jobs, investments and local

:33:32.:33:34.

communities. The whole point of public subsidy is not to become

:33:35.:33:39.

dependent on taxpayers monex, but to have new industries stand on their

:33:40.:33:45.

own two feet. It is therefore only right that we now turn our `ttention

:33:46.:33:50.

to supporting other potenti`l forms of renewable energy that relain into

:33:51.:33:56.

its infancy, and ensure that our manifesto commitment accordhngly. My

:33:57.:34:05.

conclusion, that's in it is essential that we listen to our

:34:06.:34:09.

constituents and their concdrns over the relentless spread of onshore

:34:10.:34:13.

wind farms. Local people should always be at the heart of the

:34:14.:34:19.

decisions making progress. Ht is from that our manifesto comlitment

:34:20.:34:23.

so far has been blocked and the other place from those who `re

:34:24.:34:27.

elected and accountable to the people we all serve in this chamber.

:34:28.:34:32.

We must not shirk from our responsibilities to go back on the

:34:33.:34:34.

commitments on which we werd commitments on which we werd

:34:35.:34:37.

elected, or the side of the house was elected on. People are fed up

:34:38.:34:42.

with so many wind farms being felt in their backyards with thehr own

:34:43.:34:47.

hard-earned taxpayer money, and without their say. More must be done

:34:48.:34:53.

to support other forms of rdnewable energies that remain in thehr

:34:54.:34:57.

infancy, that is the own wax we can have a broad-based renewablds

:34:58.:35:02.

strategy while the harmonizhng our economy and ensuring afford`ble and

:35:03.:35:11.

secure reply of energy. -- supply. A pleasure to follow him. I know this

:35:12.:35:15.

area very well and agree with some of the things he said. This bill,

:35:16.:35:25.

few people would oppose. Indeed I've remember, first off undertaker,

:35:26.:35:32.

desktop, the Norwegian sector seems to be growing, so I don't sde

:35:33.:35:36.

regulation as a huge hander for the British sector. I welcome that part.

:35:37.:35:43.

Nevada could disagree with maximizing economic recoverx that

:35:44.:35:49.

the government is saying in the good here. -- nobody. High energx prices

:35:50.:35:58.

are having our industry. -- hurting. It is worth mentioning that many of

:35:59.:36:01.

the things that the Secretary of State said, the government was

:36:02.:36:08.

cutting back on the cost of energy. Actually, they are just fixhng the

:36:09.:36:12.

mess that they did in 2011, because it was this government that brought

:36:13.:36:17.

in the carbon price flop th`t happened many other industrhes. The

:36:18.:36:25.

making of this government, `nd has caused the problems that we have

:36:26.:36:29.

today. I do not want to dwell on that, I just want to say a little

:36:30.:36:35.

bit of consistency that this government and a contact. I

:36:36.:36:39.

represent a constituency th`t plans for a new nuclear, potential for

:36:40.:36:45.

tidal energy, and has been dubbed the energy island, and I believe it

:36:46.:36:51.

is a Kosovo policy, but we lust have that makes it rather have a sensible

:36:52.:36:57.

policy going forward. We nedd to have continuity and stability, which

:36:58.:37:03.

businesses crying out for if they are to advance. I have sent on a

:37:04.:37:08.

number of occasions that I `m pro nuclear, and programme noblds, pro

:37:09.:37:11.

energy efficiency and I see no contradiction at that because to get

:37:12.:37:15.

the balance right but the ftll suite of technologies that is avahlable

:37:16.:37:20.

and potential for the futurd. Oddly that this government and thd bill

:37:21.:37:24.

has missed many opportunitids, and I will deal with briefly with par for

:37:25.:37:29.

this bill. I agree that loc`l communities should not run by -

:37:30.:37:36.

runover by a planned applic`tions, and I think it is sensible, but I

:37:37.:37:40.

think the government has its sights on the wrong target when it talks

:37:41.:37:47.

about producing bills by cutting the so-called great taxes, becatse the

:37:48.:37:52.

biggest contribution to the bill after the oil and gas prices is the

:37:53.:37:57.

transmission and distribution. There is nothing in the bill to do with

:37:58.:38:01.

it, nothing that I see the government done. 25% of household

:38:02.:38:06.

bills and businesses is distribution and transmission costs. Yet we have

:38:07.:38:14.

monopolies, district monopolies when it comes to distribution and we have

:38:15.:38:20.

a national monopoly when it comes to transmission. The National Grid does

:38:21.:38:23.

not act in the national intdrest and ask in the interest of the

:38:24.:38:27.

shareholders of National Grhd. I think that is wrong, and in the last

:38:28.:38:32.

Parliament the government's energy act was to give extra powers to

:38:33.:38:37.

National Grid, by making it the system's operator. It decidds where

:38:38.:38:42.

this new bill are going to happen is future, they provide the

:38:43.:38:47.

transmission in a noncompethtive way, so I did the government needs

:38:48.:38:51.

to look at that it is seriots about getting value for money to

:38:52.:38:54.

customers, rather than use this fiddling around with the grden ones,

:38:55.:39:02.

just to get headlines and the tour in newspapers, which I think has

:39:03.:39:07.

happened with onshore wind. Onshore wind in my area, applicant has grown

:39:08.:39:12.

to a stage now where we need to be building more offshore wind. I agree

:39:13.:39:16.

with him on that, the consensus on the policies at one time. When the

:39:17.:39:27.

new Coalition Government cale in, there was continuity of polhcies,

:39:28.:39:31.

and that has been lost. We got a very decent energy policy, which

:39:32.:39:38.

many people believe is being driven by the treasury. We have thd house

:39:39.:39:45.

for taxes, and I do not think the deck officials and ministers have

:39:46.:39:50.

got to pride leapt way to ddvelop a coherent and energy policy. I think

:39:51.:39:55.

this the one opportunity to have a coherent energy policy and have

:39:56.:40:01.

legislation to move forward. I do welcome the Government's talk of new

:40:02.:40:05.

nuclear pills, because my constituency will benefit. H went to

:40:06.:40:14.

the closer in my constituency, a fortnight ago. Over 44 years of

:40:15.:40:18.

generation, high-quality jobs were provided, few people in few

:40:19.:40:23.

industries could say that they had jobs for life. It is that long-term

:40:24.:40:28.

baseload that we need and I welcome it. That project of, the new global

:40:29.:40:35.

markets assiduously, started in 2007 eight and takes a long time. That is

:40:36.:40:42.

why we need to have a nobles. The bill without the long lead times, we

:40:43.:40:48.

do need to intimacy when it comes to veneration, and a warm wintdr or I

:40:49.:40:52.

have summer, you have to swhtch technologies off and you nedd to

:40:53.:40:55.

have that flexibility. Onshore wind provides that. At that offshore wind

:40:56.:41:08.

and ice in an operation. --... On which was a mop in the summdr, they

:41:09.:41:11.

could do the maintenance. You cannot switch and nuclear power st`tion off

:41:12.:41:16.

unless it needs essential maintenance and piggyback on without

:41:17.:41:20.

adding additional cost, so we need applicability and I do not think

:41:21.:41:23.

this bill in any way is providing that. When we talk, the govdrnment

:41:24.:41:31.

talks about commitment,. It has been met with him to solar power, it

:41:32.:41:35.

immediately switched off like that, and the impact was real on thrill

:41:36.:41:44.

jobs that they created industries as well as insulate itself. We saw a

:41:45.:41:49.

lot of Joss is -- job losses, drop of the policy. Yes we need to taper

:41:50.:41:57.

off, and the weather policy in place by the previous labor government to

:41:58.:41:58.

taper off the solo, but it was the taper off the solo, but it was the

:41:59.:42:03.

manner in which the governmdnt did it that impacted negatively on

:42:04.:42:08.

business. I feel the same thing with wind power will happen, and many of

:42:09.:42:11.

these companies were investhng in wind power. They have a bro`d

:42:12.:42:16.

portfolio, they dude just not have wind power, they have gas, other

:42:17.:42:22.

energy basis in the portfolho and they are worried to see which is

:42:23.:42:26.

next. They want best abilitx that the government is not providing I

:42:27.:42:31.

know many people want to spdak, but this bill is a missed opportunity,

:42:32.:42:35.

we need to get back to a coherent energy policy, we need to gdt back

:42:36.:42:39.

to a consensus that we plan for 30-40 years, not five electoral

:42:40.:42:47.

cycles. It is a pleasure to follow him. I am not the expert th`t he is

:42:48.:42:56.

in these matters, but I will will focus on the one bit of the bill

:42:57.:42:58.

that is controversial and this place. That and to removal of

:42:59.:43:04.

subsidies and obligation bonds opened. For a minute, I want to

:43:05.:43:07.

sketch out my own personal journey on this particular subject. I was a

:43:08.:43:14.

bit of a green meet when I first went to the EU Parliament b`ck in

:43:15.:43:19.

1999 book enjoyed were workhng with the member Brighton. There `re some

:43:20.:43:26.

interesting areas of agreemdnt on policies that we had. I may go and

:43:27.:43:35.

gentlemen in 2001, generate new to the light side and has conthnued

:43:36.:43:43.

since then. Between ten and 201 , I have the Met was interested in

:43:44.:43:45.

energy, but do not pay much attention to it. You don't look at

:43:46.:43:51.

individual policy areas, and the way that you do look at them whdn you

:43:52.:43:56.

become a constituency member of Parliament, representing 72 and a

:43:57.:44:01.

half thousand people in the beautiful constituency of D`ventry

:44:02.:44:06.

that I do. When I got here, I had a couple of controversial onshore wind

:44:07.:44:14.

farm development in my constituency. I want to do what ever attested in

:44:15.:44:18.

the face, I would meet to ddvelop the representatives of the hndustry

:44:19.:44:26.

and talk with them the problems my constituents have with their

:44:27.:44:33.

developers. Also talking to the industry organisation and how to

:44:34.:44:36.

include communities into decisions, how to answer the vice commtnities

:44:37.:44:43.

-- and to divide. Perhaps working with communities, and even giving

:44:44.:44:46.

into some type of rebate on the bills so they felt they werd

:44:47.:44:51.

attached to local energy production for local energy consumption. It has

:44:52.:45:01.

to be said that the wind industry at the time decided to ignore `ll of my

:45:02.:45:06.

counsel. In fact, if you brhng this forward to where we are tod`y, I

:45:07.:45:12.

would suggest that how the onshore wind has treated communities up and

:45:13.:45:16.

down this country, it has actually done untold damage to how pdople see

:45:17.:45:21.

the nobles in total as part of our energy provisions. There is a bit of

:45:22.:45:29.

history to this that goes bdyond the general election. I've alwaxs

:45:30.:45:42.

hesitated, business will nulber act in a way that incentivized to add,

:45:43.:45:46.

edit of the us to correct Frank Burke and get them to behavd. It

:45:47.:45:49.

would the event level government that refused to listen to ghving a

:45:50.:45:52.

voice to local communities that meant they felt it was little point

:45:53.:45:57.

in engaging with him. Does the government at the time that when I

:45:58.:46:03.

listen, and that is when I has led to a hostility in many commtnities

:46:04.:46:06.

including mine tour the wind industry. That is why I welcome the

:46:07.:46:15.

tone of the unrelated in thd way that she said her party would not

:46:16.:46:19.

recognise the local communities to be engaged in their views of these

:46:20.:46:24.

methods. I do love this for myself first-hand. I have one parthcular

:46:25.:46:34.

onshore wind developer in a village where you will see a number of

:46:35.:46:39.

turbines they erected at thhs current point in time. I thought

:46:40.:46:47.

that if you form a good loc`l campaign, that you could win a local

:46:48.:46:53.

campaign. A proposal from bding established in an appropriate site

:46:54.:47:01.

on the judgement of most people That was brought out as mord as well

:47:02.:47:04.

as by the inspector because the application went to a pill. -- a

:47:05.:47:14.

pill. Someone from Bristol came and he made a stunning statement from

:47:15.:47:18.

the, a ground-breaking statdment for me that changed exactly how I had to

:47:19.:47:33.

do with these issues going forward. Because the punishment that said,

:47:34.:47:37.

all the things that the loc`l community has been saying an

:47:38.:47:41.

appropriate site, damage to the local communities, a host of why he

:47:42.:47:47.

should not pass this partictlar development, but then went on to say

:47:48.:47:51.

that national policy trump `ll this and therefore you have in the

:47:52.:47:54.

development no matter what xou like. Should the same logic be applied to

:47:55.:48:06.

pylons, when it comes to pl`ns to connect a new generation to the

:48:07.:48:10.

grid? Then that local authorities and communities should have a

:48:11.:48:16.

greater say, and that should devolve those responsibilities to local

:48:17.:48:19.

authority? I wouldn't go quhte so far, because I do not know the

:48:20.:48:23.

context of the question. However, I would argue for local communities to

:48:24.:48:29.

have more say in the development. I would go further and argue for the

:48:30.:48:35.

French approach to these thhngs where local communities are

:48:36.:48:37.

massively incentivized to bd involved in taking developmdnts that

:48:38.:48:43.

might deemed unpopular elsewhere, and indeed choose to do so. They

:48:44.:48:49.

have local campaigns for wh`t would be unpopular planning decishons in

:48:50.:48:54.

the UK. They have local campaigns for them, because they understand

:48:55.:48:57.

that there is benefit to local communities to receive them. I

:48:58.:49:03.

decided that I had to do my bit to change national policy in this area.

:49:04.:49:07.

I walked around the lobbies and found a hundred other members who

:49:08.:49:12.

felt similarly aggrieved to the way planning and onshore wind h`d been

:49:13.:49:15.

developed, and they got thel to sign a letter to the prime minister about

:49:16.:49:21.

how we should change things. I also noticed at this time that if we had,

:49:22.:49:28.

at as we head for the targets for 2020, about the capacity for onshore

:49:29.:49:32.

wind development, and if we were hitting those developments hn 2 11

:49:33.:49:36.

and 2012, then logic would say that the subsidy we were giving to

:49:37.:49:44.

onshore wind was too high. So many different developments, forward that

:49:45.:49:47.

we're going to surpass this target with no trouble whatsoever hf you're

:49:48.:49:54.

subsidy is too high, if loc`l people feel that they are being ignored,

:49:55.:50:02.

and I would argue that thesd things produce the people into fuel poverty

:50:03.:50:10.

and have caused some of the issues higher energy prices. But those

:50:11.:50:19.

points to one aside, we cannot forget fuel poverty and the art

:50:20.:50:24.

industry needs cheap energy to compete. But in the context of

:50:25.:50:29.

trying to make an argument to local people about having an onshore wind

:50:30.:50:36.

development in their communhty. When their targets have been hit, when

:50:37.:50:41.

they know they are not getthng anything from it, and when they know

:50:42.:50:47.

that the businesses are rubbing their noses that they cannot do

:50:48.:50:51.

anything about it. You get `ngry people whose idea about democracy is

:50:52.:51:00.

a disturbed to a great extent. I was delighted over a period of time to

:51:01.:51:05.

persuade, cajole, elbow, nudge, force a policy in my own political

:51:06.:51:10.

party to a point where we changed our planning guidance. Still, they

:51:11.:51:17.

didn't have too much of an dffect until an honourable lady sahd that

:51:18.:51:24.

former communities and ministers decided to remind the plannhng

:51:25.:51:27.

authorities exactly what he meant when he was making his policy

:51:28.:51:33.

statements by calling in a number of developments at a stage and making

:51:34.:51:39.

the rulings himself. To go further than that, and place into otr

:51:40.:51:45.

manifesto that we would cut the subsidies for onshore wind going

:51:46.:51:51.

forward stop --. I wanted to go Robert retrospective. I thotght it

:51:52.:52:01.

was a very generous of the Prime Minister when he brought together

:52:02.:52:04.

the energy chapter of the m`nifesto, not to take on my well registered

:52:05.:52:11.

and well-documented concern, my ideas of how we should go forward,

:52:12.:52:16.

but she do it so that there were no new subsidies for onshore whnd. My

:52:17.:52:20.

constituents in general, evdn those when you drive up the M1 and you

:52:21.:52:27.

come to the Gateway of my constituency where they wall and one

:52:28.:52:46.

BC and six, and you see -- ly constituency is annoyed by their

:52:47.:52:52.

noises of the turbines, there are many problems that go into ht. They

:52:53.:52:55.

wanted to know that this cotld not have been the same way that happen

:52:56.:53:01.

to them to other local people and nationally. I was proud to sell that

:53:02.:53:05.

in the conservative party m`nifesto, in the general election campaign in

:53:06.:53:10.

2015. I think that those th`t try to argue the point that this w`sn't

:53:11.:53:16.

actually what the conservathve party met in its manifesto, but wd were

:53:17.:53:20.

saying something completely different. Words talking about

:53:21.:53:25.

existing wind, this is new subsidy, not renewable obligation. Those who

:53:26.:53:30.

said our dancing on ahead hdad a pin that will only upset people in my

:53:31.:53:35.

constituency, and indeed evdryone else in this place. That is what

:53:36.:53:40.

politicians do. We don't tell the truth, we don't deliver on `

:53:41.:53:43.

manifesto commitments. Opposition parties would do a lot bettdr than

:53:44.:53:50.

to argue against individual elements of the language in this of this

:53:51.:53:56.

particular matter. It was black and white. I Gateway. I don't w`nt to

:53:57.:54:03.

cut them off as he is getting to the conclusion, but if it was so

:54:04.:54:06.

blatantly obvious that therd was a precise meaning to the manifesto,

:54:07.:54:10.

why was the industry taken by surprise? They were not takdn by

:54:11.:54:15.

surprise, certainly not. Thdy knew what was coming their way. That is

:54:16.:54:18.

why they were aggressively campaigning. I have to stop their

:54:19.:54:24.

Madam Deputy Speaker, but it is fair to say that I want to send ` message

:54:25.:54:28.

to the other end of the cord door that they should watch and learn

:54:29.:54:32.

about democracy before impinging on the decisions that we put an our

:54:33.:54:39.

manifesto. It is a pleasure to take part in this debate and follow

:54:40.:54:49.

thoughtful contributions. I didn't agree with everything, but they were

:54:50.:54:55.

nonetheless serious and thotghtful contributions. When this bill first

:54:56.:55:03.

came before the other place, I have to say it was a meagre piecd of

:55:04.:55:08.

legislation, focused almost entirely on fossil fuel extraction. Ht has

:55:09.:55:14.

been amended considerably and considered -- committee stages. It

:55:15.:55:20.

now feels like it has some regard in the ways that industrial activities

:55:21.:55:25.

and investment might be madd compatible with a low-energx future.

:55:26.:55:29.

The bill is mostly concerned with the establishment of the oil and gas

:55:30.:55:33.

Authority. How the arrangemdnt adapts to a world of plunging

:55:34.:55:38.

revenues from offshore revenue and gas remains to be seen. There is

:55:39.:55:43.

broad consensus in the housd to the regards of the necessity to

:55:44.:55:46.

implement the finding of thd wood review. A robust case in terms of

:55:47.:55:52.

economics and energy security for using resources of the North Sea

:55:53.:55:55.

continental shelf to reduce our dependence on foreign imports during

:55:56.:56:00.

the transition to a decarbonize energy system. It was disappointing

:56:01.:56:05.

to hear the secretary of st`te when it comes to carbon capture `nd

:56:06.:56:08.

storage. I welcome the amendments that were made to expand thd

:56:09.:56:13.

principal objective of the TK strategy 28 or break a regard to

:56:14.:56:19.

carbon capture storage. Reldvant causes will need to be revisited in

:56:20.:56:24.

committee to ensure that thd industry has the necessary

:56:25.:56:26.

flexibility, and investment and jobs are protected. CCS presents an

:56:27.:56:35.

opportunity to use utilise technical opportunities and skills in a way

:56:36.:56:40.

that will give you that indtstry a sustainable future in decadds to

:56:41.:56:47.

come. That opportunity will not be realised unless we get some clarity

:56:48.:56:51.

about the government Boss albitions for CCS, and a strategy to `chieve

:56:52.:56:57.

them. At the moment, all we have his model. In 2007 the Prime Minister in

:56:58.:57:03.

a speech said that the consdrvative government would "Strain evdry sin

:57:04.:57:09.

you to create viable and affordable CCS technology." Eight years on we

:57:10.:57:13.

have a conservative chancellor cutting funds allocated to bring

:57:14.:57:18.

forward commercial CCS, weeks before many companies were expected to

:57:19.:57:24.

submit their bids. The about funding for support for CCS is not `n

:57:25.:57:28.

aberration, but is indicative of this government Boss cavalidr

:57:29.:57:32.

approach to the energy sector as a whole, an approach that is dvident

:57:33.:57:35.

in the most controversial aspect of the bill that originally cale before

:57:36.:57:39.

the other place, the decision to close the renewable obligathon a

:57:40.:57:43.

year earlier than had been legislated for in the energx act of

:57:44.:57:48.

2013. I agree with the points that many members have made about the

:57:49.:57:53.

need for local consent when it comes to onshore wind. Noble Lords removed

:57:54.:57:59.

Clause 66 in an amendment, `nd they were right to do so, becausd the

:58:00.:58:07.

early closure was another example of policymaking from this government.

:58:08.:58:10.

The objective of the measurd was to save customers money, but as we have

:58:11.:58:14.

heard in the government Boss on central scenario, that is as loopy

:58:15.:58:23.

as -- little as 30p in some areas. We are not on course to meet our EU

:58:24.:58:29.

renewable target. Given the lack of progress in decarbonize the heat and

:58:30.:58:32.

transport, or any meaningful cross departmental full, we will be forced

:58:33.:58:41.

to go further under current targets in renewable electricity as a

:58:42.:58:45.

result. Under those circumstances, it is counterproductive to lake life

:58:46.:58:50.

more difficult for the cheapest form of renewable energy available. It

:58:51.:58:53.

strikes me that the decision has much more to do with the politics of

:58:54.:59:00.

appeasing conservative backbenchers, and the government Boss

:59:01.:59:02.

interpretation of the levee control framework is a fixed budget envelope

:59:03.:59:06.

when it was never intended to operate as one. The decision singled

:59:07.:59:13.

-- signals that the governmdnt has abandoned him and to a technology

:59:14.:59:17.

neutral approach to policy. The overriding Mayor Rudy must be

:59:18.:59:20.

decarbonize in at the lowest possible cost. Despite the wording

:59:21.:59:28.

of the manifesto commitment in this area, the government feels that they

:59:29.:59:32.

have a mandate to reinsert Clause 66, or a version of it at committee

:59:33.:59:38.

stage. If they do so as has been stated, I would urge them to look at

:59:39.:59:41.

the impact of the closure of projects that have local consent,

:59:42.:59:46.

projects in which people have invested in good faith, and work to

:59:47.:59:52.

ensure that truly equitable grace periods are incorporated into the

:59:53.:00:01.

legislation as we go forward. I am grateful, the number of turbines

:00:02.:00:05.

affected is extraordinarily small, is it not? We should keep this in

:00:06.:00:11.

perspective. In a baseball, but I hope that you would agree that the

:00:12.:00:17.

people and investors who have agreed -- invested, they should not be

:00:18.:00:21.

penalised by the early clostre of something that had a fixed dnd point

:00:22.:00:28.

in legislation in 2017. The way that the government has handled the

:00:29.:00:34.

matter has been hugely damaging and has undermined the industry Boss

:00:35.:00:37.

trust in the government Boss work. In January last we are -- a year,

:00:38.:00:44.

investors were told that thdy were safe. Six months later, with what I

:00:45.:00:50.

would argue is no clear signal in their manifesto, this government

:00:51.:00:57.

have attempted to do just that. I thank him for giving way, and I

:00:58.:01:01.

understand his point. Reading a press release from the 29th of April

:01:02.:01:12.

2015, it says that despite the fax... Renewable UK it would not be

:01:13.:01:18.

against our manifesto commitment as you said they didn't know about I

:01:19.:01:25.

would assume that they were lobbying for the and, the closure of any new

:01:26.:01:31.

investment in offshore wind, now what would I would argue is a

:01:32.:01:34.

retrospective change to comlitments that were made. It is no wax to

:01:35.:01:39.

treat investors, and no way to ensure that the UK remains `n

:01:40.:01:43.

attractive place from investment overseas. In the month that I have

:01:44.:01:48.

sat as member of the energy select committee, I have not heard one

:01:49.:01:52.

expert witness make the casd for indefinite subsidy for onshore wind

:01:53.:01:56.

or any form of renewable technology. What many have argued for, hs a

:01:57.:02:04.

stable secure policy, and hd graduated reduction of subshdy. They

:02:05.:02:10.

know that to do otherwise rhsks jobs, confidence, and can ott from

:02:11.:02:13.

under technologies we now are delivering in terms of drivhng down

:02:14.:02:17.

price, and have digitally in the case of solar and wind, havd been

:02:18.:02:23.

great British success storids, stories that in the coming future,

:02:24.:02:29.

has a much more uncertain ftture. I would like to finish my rem`rks by

:02:30.:02:34.

touching briefly upon what this bill does not contain. As I have made

:02:35.:02:38.

clear in the marks I have m`de so far, parts of the bill are sensible,

:02:39.:02:43.

and parts came before peers and the other place that I think were

:02:44.:02:47.

removed with good reason and should not be reinserted without

:02:48.:02:52.

appropriate safeguards. There are also notable in omissions. There is

:02:53.:03:00.

nothing about storage, and ht is deeply regrettable that this is an

:03:01.:03:03.

energy bill that is completdly silent about the need to reduce

:03:04.:03:08.

energy demand. If there was ever a chance to make energy effichency in

:03:09.:03:12.

infrastructure priority as ht needs to be if we are to solve thd dilemma

:03:13.:03:18.

and me art admissions target, this is it. It is sad that the bhll could

:03:19.:03:22.

have done so much more but ht does not do so as it stands. Givdn that

:03:23.:03:27.

the energy challenge that f`ces our country, and the ambition rdquired

:03:28.:03:30.

to realise the full promise of the historic climate agreement hn Paris,

:03:31.:03:35.

there is a great deal of room for improvement. As we move to committee

:03:36.:03:39.

stage I hope that we will fhnd a way to address many of its deficiencies.

:03:40.:03:50.

It is a privilege to follow so many well-informed contributions in a

:03:51.:03:54.

debate that I'm sure everyone will agree has been characterised by good

:03:55.:03:59.

humour and moderation on both sides. Too often we hear the interdsts of

:04:00.:04:05.

British businesses are at odds with those of working people and strong

:04:06.:04:08.

public services. That sentilent flies in the face of the facts. In

:04:09.:04:16.

2012, the oil and gas industry in Britain paid enough in our public

:04:17.:04:21.

coffers to fund every surgery and A unit in the UK. Even in the

:04:22.:04:26.

depressed oil market, the industry pays enough tax to bankroll at my

:04:27.:04:31.

five with the change to spare. Meanwhile, across the country the

:04:32.:04:35.

oil and gas industry employs 37 ,000 people. Equivalent almost to the

:04:36.:04:45.

population of a town. For 30 years this industry has supported jobs and

:04:46.:04:49.

our public services. Today, it is a suffering and he needs our help

:04:50.:04:54.

When Sir Ian Wood first published his report into the future of the UK

:04:55.:05:01.

Continental shelf, oil was trading at $110 a barrel. Last year when

:05:02.:05:05.

this bill was read in the other place, the price had become half,

:05:06.:05:14.

$60. Today is the -- it is `t $ 0 a barrel, a 70% drop. As an officer

:05:15.:05:21.

said, "Sixty 5000 jobs have been lost, and it is affecting workers,

:05:22.:05:27.

their families, and the economy as a whole." By creating a regul`tory

:05:28.:05:32.

body giving enhanced powers and a strong industry funding, thhs house

:05:33.:05:36.

can ensure that we realise the potential of a great nation`l asset.

:05:37.:05:42.

We have harvested 42 billion barrels of oil from the North Sea, but the

:05:43.:05:49.

further price is 24 billion more that light underneath. Yet, in the

:05:50.:05:53.

last two years we have only discovered a barrels. That hs 0 6%

:05:54.:06:01.

of this vast, untapped opportunity. The new oil and gas Authority

:06:02.:06:05.

envisaged in this bill can help reverse that decline. Today there

:06:06.:06:12.

are over 300 operators in the North Sea, often in small, often

:06:13.:06:17.

interdependent. Sir Ian Botham X review found 20 instances where

:06:18.:06:25.

operators Boss insurability -- shared access to infrastructure led

:06:26.:06:32.

to higher costs, delays, and a stranded assets. Many new powers

:06:33.:06:37.

that this bill gives the OD@ will help it bring parties together to

:06:38.:06:41.

resolve disputes quickly, insurer sure ASP sets are used quickly, and

:06:42.:06:48.

increase transparency. Our goal must be to send a clear and uneqtivocal

:06:49.:06:52.

bullet message to the world that far from declining, the North Sda is an

:06:53.:06:56.

industry poised for growth `nd innovation. In order to do this the

:06:57.:07:03.

oil and gas industry must h`ve a single driving focus, to maximise

:07:04.:07:11.

economic recovery. To dilutd this clear, simple mandate howevdr well

:07:12.:07:15.

intentioned would put at risk the jobs, investment, and tax rdvenue

:07:16.:07:21.

that Britain needs. For an hndustry already in deep crisis, this is a

:07:22.:07:26.

risk that we cannot afford to take. Vital as it is that we safeguard the

:07:27.:07:30.

livelihoods of our energy workers, is equally important that wd protect

:07:31.:07:34.

those who heat their homes with that energy. In closing the renewable

:07:35.:07:44.

obligation to onshore -- we can save hundreds of billions of pounds by

:07:45.:07:49.

meeting our renewable targets. In the last Parliament the secretary

:07:50.:07:53.

and of state announced gigawatts of onshore wind power would be required

:07:54.:07:58.

for the UK to meet its renewable goal. We now have enough capacity in

:07:59.:08:05.

the pipeline to deliver this. The fact that the obligation is being

:08:06.:08:10.

closed early is not in change of objection, it is reaching otr

:08:11.:08:12.

destination earlier than we had planned. Further, one of thd most

:08:13.:08:19.

basic principles of sound Ptblic finance is that subsidies should not

:08:20.:08:24.

become a permanent feature of an industry's financing. That hs a road

:08:25.:08:28.

to corporate welfare. Subsidies cost money, bill payors and taxp`yers. It

:08:29.:08:35.

should be limited, specific`lly to immature technologies to help those

:08:36.:08:38.

technologies become competitive with the market. Onshore wind is now a

:08:39.:08:45.

mature industry, and accordhng to the UK energy research Council,

:08:46.:08:49.

levelized costs for wind have been flat for over a decade. By dnding

:08:50.:08:54.

the renewable obligation for onshore wind, we can divert our resources to

:08:55.:08:59.

less mature technologies, and help them realise their promise, and

:09:00.:09:06.

deliver our renewable commitments. In conclusion, what a good dnergy

:09:07.:09:11.

policy demands is balance above all. Balance between affordability for

:09:12.:09:15.

Britain putt households, security for the future of British industry,

:09:16.:09:20.

and sustainability for the next generation. In its original form,

:09:21.:09:25.

this is a bill that does all three, and I commend that vision to this

:09:26.:09:36.

house. Is a pleasure to follow the Member for Richmond, but I cannot be

:09:37.:09:39.

enthusiastic about the bill that we have before us. Indeed, the other

:09:40.:09:46.

members who spoke already in this second reading. Having unexpectedly

:09:47.:09:50.

reteach the Mike returned to the back benches, I had excitemdnt when

:09:51.:09:56.

there was a second reading of this bill. That was before I realised

:09:57.:09:59.

that we would be talking about sadomasochism. This is a first for

:10:00.:10:04.

me, and an interesting development in matters of this kind. A different

:10:05.:10:10.

electorate outcome in the gdneral of lecturing, I was hoping to prevent

:10:11.:10:15.

the Mike presents a new energy bill. While many had different vidws on

:10:16.:10:20.

the legislation, there is no doubt that the UK does not need a new

:10:21.:10:22.

energy bill. There are many questions of policies, and lentored

:10:23.:10:28.

issues that require politic`l leadership. Because of that, I found

:10:29.:10:33.

this bill quite disappointing today. A fairer title for the bill would be

:10:34.:10:38.

the offshore oil and gas bill that does horrible things to the

:10:39.:10:42.

renewable industry. I'm not opposed to what we have discussed about oil

:10:43.:10:46.

and gas provisions, we should do what we can do to protect the

:10:47.:10:51.

industry, as being vital for the UK. He would review was a good piece of

:10:52.:10:55.

work and made many impartial recommendations. There is a reality

:10:56.:10:59.

that we have to acknowledge about supply and demand, that is prevalent

:11:00.:11:05.

in the international market, especially in the case of ohl. At

:11:06.:11:11.

$30 a barrel, there will be an impact in the North Sea. In many

:11:12.:11:15.

ways there were are two not`ble things. If you follow the

:11:16.:11:20.

conclusions and logic of our energy policy across the world as we divest

:11:21.:11:25.

and give more into low carbon generation, it will reduce the net,

:11:26.:11:34.

demand for oil. You can't comment on the oil price with how sillx it

:11:35.:11:37.

makes the case for independdnt appeal for those who fought for

:11:38.:11:40.

them, and it shouldn't go unmentioned. The section on

:11:41.:11:48.

renewables is also straightforward, with the exception of of thd

:11:49.:11:53.

measures on the local consent and provision. I don't think we should

:11:54.:11:58.

do it. Many time and energy debates what the general feeling is about

:11:59.:12:01.

the wind industry on the government Boss side of the chamber. I would

:12:02.:12:05.

say that when we are talking about this, whatever the personal

:12:06.:12:09.

positions, we should not trx to introduce facts which are pdrsonal.

:12:10.:12:13.

There have been things said today that are untrue. The figures for the

:12:14.:12:20.

UK when the contribution to our electricity are 5%, not 1%. That is

:12:21.:12:24.

information anyone could obtain from the phone. That is equal to the

:12:25.:12:31.

biomass contribution, one qtarter of our entire nuclear fleet. It is not

:12:32.:12:35.

insignificant. About constr`int payments, these are a futurd --

:12:36.:12:41.

feature in any system that require supply and demand. To see that you

:12:42.:12:45.

have to go to a control centre for themselves, a fascinating place to

:12:46.:12:49.

go to. Constraint payments `pply to every form of generation should be

:12:50.:12:54.

the goal in many numbers colpared to fossil fuel. This is not a case it

:12:55.:12:59.

is a future that applies to our renewable sector. The main point I

:13:00.:13:02.

wanted to raise about the provisions of onshore wind is that endhng

:13:03.:13:08.

financial support should be tapered out as industries mature, btt ending

:13:09.:13:12.

it for arbitrary or politic`l reasons -- reasons are not leasures

:13:13.:13:19.

that will damage the industry, they will damage all and energy

:13:20.:13:24.

investment. MPs said that they don't like wind, we need to solar farms

:13:25.:13:33.

fought. -- let's talk about marine technology. The fact is that if you

:13:34.:13:38.

undermine investor confidence in one sector, you undermine across the

:13:39.:13:42.

board. It is true that therd has been a long-standing commitlent to

:13:43.:13:51.

wind set energy. That could be anticipated, but it has to be with

:13:52.:13:56.

due regard to costs that work and amendments that were reflected in

:13:57.:14:00.

the need to protect investor confidence. Those have been

:14:01.:14:02.

disregarded by the government. When we talk about the prices proposed by

:14:03.:14:08.

this side of the house in the last Parliament, investor confiddnce was

:14:09.:14:12.

a buzzword for conservative MPs With provisions like this, they seem

:14:13.:14:18.

to have deserted them. It is also the case that he scrapped the

:14:19.:14:21.

cheapest form of renewable dnergy, you will route -- raise prices. It

:14:22.:14:28.

is hypocritical to have one set of provisions for renewable endrgy and

:14:29.:14:32.

a separate set for frogging. If one is good for one sector, askdd to

:14:33.:14:39.

apply to all. That inconsistency and infancy the Mike incoherencd is

:14:40.:14:42.

frustrating. Having dealt whth those bills, I can't help but talk about

:14:43.:14:49.

the issues and sectors that have been missed, and opportunithes that

:14:50.:14:51.

have missed that this bill represents. The first is endrgy

:14:52.:14:58.

efficiency. This government Boss record is abysmal. It has cost

:14:59.:15:04.

thousands of jobs I may havd made bills worse, and it has hindered our

:15:05.:15:11.

ability to tackle climate change. There is a need for a mix. Ht is

:15:12.:15:17.

going to be expensive, and to not get efficient energy usage hs a

:15:18.:15:23.

scandal. In opposition with our talks are looking at things from

:15:24.:15:28.

short-term measures we could bring in to emergency legislation to

:15:29.:15:31.

extend obligations of the energy companies. The lost jobs ard jobs

:15:32.:15:35.

that we will need going forward if we have any hope of hitting our

:15:36.:15:40.

targets, and if we have any hope of keeping bills low. The second missed

:15:41.:15:44.

opportunity is a carbon caps in and storage. This is essential, we know

:15:45.:15:53.

that it works, and the UK could be a world leader. We should put money

:15:54.:15:58.

into this. We are all left wondering whether there will be any fhnancial

:15:59.:16:01.

support available for the government for carbon tax ring and storage

:16:02.:16:06.

This is not a case about electricity, is a means of which we

:16:07.:16:13.

will forward the industry. To have the government retreat seems a

:16:14.:16:17.

tragic place to be. The third missed opportunity has to be

:16:18.:16:24.

decentralization. Some of the comments were extremely helpful

:16:25.:16:28.

There is a need to decentralise and to diversify the benefit into the

:16:29.:16:34.

cost of energy subsidies. Wd need to make a more equitable, and deal with

:16:35.:16:38.

the old opposition to plannhng new energy infrastructure. My own

:16:39.:16:43.

political party, not the Labour Party but the Cooperative p`rty has

:16:44.:16:48.

a fine record for being consistent and campaigning for doing that. If

:16:49.:16:54.

we want communities to host electricity generating capacity

:16:55.:16:58.

closer to their homes as it has been historically, we have to find ways

:16:59.:17:04.

of bringing them in and then seen benefit. Some comments were harsh,

:17:05.:17:13.

because there are developers with a substantial reductions of energy

:17:14.:17:16.

bills. We should also look `t ways to diversify energy structure. If

:17:17.:17:21.

local communities feel that they gay benefit of it, there will bd a

:17:22.:17:27.

stronger need of having thel closer to them. The last thing I w`nted to

:17:28.:17:34.

mention is low carbon heat. I wanted to talk about this in the ddbate,

:17:35.:17:38.

because when we talk about hitting targets, find a way to tackle

:17:39.:17:44.

comments, climate change, d`rk political decisions that nedd to be

:17:45.:17:47.

made in the parliament in the UK to make any progress in this fheld I

:17:48.:17:52.

believe that we are nowhere near to making those decisions, and that we

:17:53.:17:56.

cannot wait longer to try to start the process. In conclusion, this is

:17:57.:18:01.

a bill with many provisions that are worthy, but it feels like it is not

:18:02.:18:06.

a bill that tries to meet the challenges in the UK energy market

:18:07.:18:10.

today. There is a sense that this is not a priority for this govdrnment

:18:11.:18:15.

when it should be a major one, not just for Paris and the clim`te

:18:16.:18:18.

change agreement that we made internationally, but for jobs and

:18:19.:18:23.

energy security in the UK. The right policies are available, polhcies

:18:24.:18:27.

that could simultaneously t`ckle poverty, and cut missions. H call

:18:28.:18:31.

for more ambition from this government and subsequent

:18:32.:18:31.

governments. I would like to briefly spe`k about

:18:32.:18:42.

the provisions in this bill which relate to onshore wind generation.

:18:43.:18:49.

It has been mentioned by many members the provisions of the belt

:18:50.:18:53.

reflect conservative manifesto commitments, but as my Honorable

:18:54.:18:59.

friend said, have a much longer genesis of this, I think having

:19:00.:19:02.

played a small part in the formulation of the policy mxself, it

:19:03.:19:08.

is important to understand this one a background as part of this debate.

:19:09.:19:15.

The first thing is that a long period of Campana, and I pax tribute

:19:16.:19:18.

to the work that he and othdr members did before I entered the two

:19:19.:19:24.

British policy to fruition. -- campaign. It also reflects the work

:19:25.:19:31.

of my friend, the Member for South Holland who prayed a large part in

:19:32.:19:34.

persuading the Prime Ministdr to take this debate forward wh`t we are

:19:35.:19:40.

in Coalition. The policy itself reflects three principles. The first

:19:41.:19:44.

one is the principle of loc`l consultation, the idea that local

:19:45.:19:47.

people should have a say in decisions which affect them. I have

:19:48.:19:58.

seen and so... I would like to highlight to help the

:19:59.:20:00.

inconsistencies of the principle that he set up the local people of

:20:01.:20:04.

having a say in the governmdnt often approach two decisions about

:20:05.:20:08.

fracking. I have great symp`thy for the argument that local people to

:20:09.:20:13.

have their say and what the circumstances. In my own

:20:14.:20:17.

constituency, we are facing a terrible situation that has been

:20:18.:20:22.

overridden by national planning policy in the face of local

:20:23.:20:27.

decision-making, I know advdrse sentiments persist for a long time,

:20:28.:20:31.

so wherever possible, one should give priority to local feelhng. I

:20:32.:20:43.

think the point was made th`t a lot of anger and listen to onshore wind

:20:44.:20:47.

farms and the reason why thhs has become a call from such polhtical

:20:48.:20:51.

contention, which was not the case previously, is because local people

:20:52.:20:55.

have not had their say, and one has been against the interests of the

:20:56.:20:58.

local community, they feel ht is being forced upon them. The second

:20:59.:21:05.

principle is the idea of economic viability, and another has been a

:21:06.:21:08.

lot of debate about the exact amount of subsidy that is clearly ` large

:21:09.:21:16.

number to onshore wind. Whether that figure is ?20 million or at the

:21:17.:21:20.

higher end of ?270 million, that is still money being paid an individual

:21:21.:21:28.

in energy consumers, and those consumers are the least abld to pay

:21:29.:21:33.

it. Since every single constmer pays and my muscles pretty much, the

:21:34.:21:41.

impact on the poorest members of our society is far greater than under

:21:42.:21:42.

bridges, and it surprises md that bridges, and it surprises md that

:21:43.:21:47.

members opted to not take into account the aggressive nature of the

:21:48.:21:51.

effect of subsidies of individual energy bills also. But diffdrence

:21:52.:21:59.

was the value of the landsc`pe, and the general economic well-bding of

:22:00.:22:05.

people to live in beautiful places in to assert those places. ,- the

:22:06.:22:10.

third principle. Some of thd most parts of this country have been

:22:11.:22:17.

defiled by ugly wind farms, that no one has consented to. Members

:22:18.:22:23.

opposite from mission frackhng, a practice session tends to bd a small

:22:24.:22:29.

building, and most of the work is done on the ground. These ghastly

:22:30.:22:35.

wind farms often, doesn't sde high and block the landscape for miles

:22:36.:22:41.

around. I do not think it is that sensible of a comparison. The

:22:42.:22:51.

important point of all this is that if members are arguing that we

:22:52.:22:54.

should protect our environmdnt in the long run, which I agree, it is

:22:55.:23:00.

this presents a threat and had to accept that balance of eviddnce why

:23:01.:23:06.

should we be destroying what we so love in the short term by f`iling to

:23:07.:23:09.

consider some of the most bdautiful parts of this country. That's

:23:10.:23:13.

preserved. I think the important point with all of these principles

:23:14.:23:19.

is that one should not take one element, which is a state that you

:23:20.:23:24.

can take away the planning dlement, and say we agree with giving local

:23:25.:23:30.

people a say on the planning element, then disagree with the

:23:31.:23:34.

removal of the subsidy. The two are part of a coherent policy that has

:23:35.:23:38.

been developed over a large vast number of years in the opposition

:23:39.:23:43.

and the government. Most of those policies have been bolted for, they

:23:44.:23:50.

were clearly flagged in the manifesto, and the Conservative

:23:51.:23:55.

Party won the majority. -- voted. This is the extraordinary thing the

:23:56.:23:59.

people of that were impede hn the election, the Liberal Democrats

:24:00.:24:03.

presently, have used their security force in the other place to defeat

:24:04.:24:15.

the elected love this chambdr. We join me interspersing his

:24:16.:24:18.

astonishment that that partx has chosen not to attend this ddbate at

:24:19.:24:23.

all today. It is about thred hours since one representative left. I

:24:24.:24:31.

agree with them. For a partx that has long advocated the abolhtion of

:24:32.:24:38.

the other place, they seem to have become the party of the unelected

:24:39.:24:45.

place to stick it impose thdir will on the democratically electdd place.

:24:46.:24:49.

Somehow these measures are extremely. It is extraordin`ry when

:24:50.:24:56.

you look to the amount of onshore wind that we already have. We are on

:24:57.:25:01.

track to generate more than 30% of our energy from renewables,

:25:02.:25:05.

renewable energy capacity h`s actually travelled under thhs

:25:06.:25:10.

conservative government and others Coalition. -- tripled. At this

:25:11.:25:15.

moment, we have the governmdnt subsidy worth ?100 million for

:25:16.:25:22.

renewable onshore wind, with 49 farms and 4751 turbines. Onshore

:25:23.:25:30.

wind farms already account for a large part of the energy mix in this

:25:31.:25:34.

country, they have an important part of flight, but they should not play

:25:35.:25:41.

a dominant part, and this is why it is important we start this guy at

:25:42.:25:42.

the level of subsidy that is given the level of subsidy that is given

:25:43.:25:45.

to them so that we have a b`lance between different technologhes.

:25:46.:25:50.

There are many flaws with onshore wind. We've already heard how it is

:25:51.:25:55.

not reliable, requires largd amounts of tobacco, often in the wrong

:25:56.:25:59.

place, very far distant frol the industry that actually requhres it.

:26:00.:26:07.

That means that further forls of transmission are required to get it

:26:08.:26:11.

from where it is being generated to where it is needed, which ftrther

:26:12.:26:16.

adds to the subsidy requirelents. It is against the wishes of local

:26:17.:26:20.

communities also. In conclusion argued that this is a reasonable

:26:21.:26:26.

proposition. At the support of the British people, as reflected in the

:26:27.:26:30.

general election. And we should resist the attempt to unelected

:26:31.:26:34.

members of the other house to force a view that is not shared bx the

:26:35.:26:37.

British people on this placd, and I would urge members to support of the

:26:38.:26:41.

measures of running the manhfesto and I hope they'll be introduced by

:26:42.:26:52.

ministers. Querrey a pleasure to follow are from such thoughtful

:26:53.:26:53.

speeches. He talked about the poverty of

:26:54.:27:02.

ambition in this bill, but `lso to follow on the space. He talked about

:27:03.:27:10.

the regressive nature of thd fuel subsidies, but one thing he did not

:27:11.:27:13.

talk about it the regressivd nature of fuel poverty, and that is

:27:14.:27:19.

something I want to talk about. I want to begin with the big picture,

:27:20.:27:24.

a couple of months ago, scidntific lab that we are not living hn the

:27:25.:27:29.

encompassing age, one of thd things that we will have to learn to spell

:27:30.:27:32.

and pronounce properly. It essentially means that humanity

:27:33.:27:45.

cosmic impact on the earth atmosphere, ocean, and wildlife has

:27:46.:27:49.

not created a new geological Utah, and the tall afar is how do we

:27:50.:27:54.

eradicate fuel poverty and lower carbon emissions to keep global

:27:55.:27:59.

warming well below the 2 degrees of agreed at Paris, by ensuring that we

:28:00.:28:03.

meet the sustainable goals that were also agreed in the garden a couple

:28:04.:28:06.

of months earlier and protect our planet to pass on to our chhldren

:28:07.:28:20.

and grandchildren. We take our. . I remember scraping the ice off the

:28:21.:28:24.

inside of the bedroom window as a child, a common feature in ly home.

:28:25.:28:31.

Discover sea of oil and gas transformed this energy cost

:28:32.:28:35.

infrastructure for families like mine and we would have bedrooms

:28:36.:28:41.

instead of just a guess or. That has really changed people's lies for the

:28:42.:28:46.

better, so that was as aqua war homes and the importance of low

:28:47.:28:54.

bills, and green energy. For me energy has to be affordable and when

:28:55.:28:59.

we were in government, we understood that. We invested ?20 billion in the

:29:00.:29:04.

decent homes standard, making people's homes warm and

:29:05.:29:07.

weatherproof. We installed when the get new central heating systems we

:29:08.:29:11.

rewrite it three quarters of a million homes, and help to further

:29:12.:29:16.

to begin homes to the warm front scheme. That stance and there are

:29:17.:29:21.

sharp contrast to the 16,000 homes that have been retrofitted since

:29:22.:29:24.

2013 under this Government's a great deal. This has a very real hmpact on

:29:25.:29:32.

people's lives. Over 40,000 excess winter deaths amongst old pdople

:29:33.:29:36.

last year. Five years ago, H discovered that tuberose, homes were

:29:37.:29:44.

not connected to the nation`l grid. No possibility of a gas connection

:29:45.:29:48.

for both home. I conducted ` severed their in 2009 -- survey, we

:29:49.:29:53.

discovered that the average fuel bill that was ?2000 a gear. And we

:29:54.:29:59.

fought those homes to be connected to the national Grid, would

:30:00.:30:03.

government help to warm of this cold spot along with the Whitfield

:30:04.:30:09.

district housing Association, a community energy solution. ,-

:30:10.:30:12.

Wakefield. There are some of the 1000 homes in the area of the city

:30:13.:30:21.

that were connected, one resident had to us to discuss a how luch he

:30:22.:30:26.

enjoyed seeing all the little gas boilers and the pipes pumping

:30:27.:30:29.

outstanding during the recent calls back. Something we all take for

:30:30.:30:33.

granted, but one paying ?2000 a year to heat and metal home, this is

:30:34.:30:39.

something that has me every difference in each of those homes.

:30:40.:30:48.

-- made Israel. Save 246 tonnes of carbon every year. What warl tones,

:30:49.:30:53.

really do make a impact on terms of the virtual circle of reduchng our

:30:54.:30:59.

carbon emissions. I still h`ve nearly 4000 households living in

:31:00.:31:01.

fuel poverty in Wakefield, `nd we know that nationally bills have

:31:02.:31:11.

risen from ?500 in 2010 to ?606 and 2015. I'm afraid the governlent s

:31:12.:31:15.

abreast of people to switch is not enough. But people have to go I want

:31:16.:31:18.

to switch, and the people wd are talking about do not have ehther the

:31:19.:31:22.

headline or the computers or the computer skills to switch. Lany

:31:23.:31:27.

colleagues on all sides havd had switch system so that peopld can

:31:28.:31:30.

come in and switch up, but often the Lord Bill bills are Antonelli,

:31:31.:31:36.

paperless bills and people do not trust them. I will never swhtch to

:31:37.:31:44.

an only bill. Hash tag gesttring. -- the same. So the talk briefly about

:31:45.:31:51.

this government's record, particularly on production of solar

:31:52.:31:55.

subsidies. Which another, a 10% and the plans to sell off the green

:31:56.:31:59.

investment bank, which was criticised by the committee for

:32:00.:32:09.

risking bank identity. -- 87%. Proposals in this bill, we have had

:32:10.:32:15.

the government talk of reducing the proposals put carbon capturd

:32:16.:32:18.

technology, that could have been a huge new industry in Scotland and in

:32:19.:32:23.

Yorkshire. People in Georgi` are ready to bring a subsidy from DEQ

:32:24.:32:27.

and the government had offered. -- DEQ. I will have a massive hmpact on

:32:28.:32:33.

the creation of new jobs and Yorkshire and Scotland Avente two,

:32:34.:32:38.

what they do CCS strategy vdry quickly bashers who do not liss out

:32:39.:32:41.

on the opportunity from this new technology. This bill has bden so

:32:42.:32:47.

what when, which is one of the cheapest options come always worth a

:32:48.:32:51.

big impact on business confhdence and inward investment. When this

:32:52.:32:59.

from bluebird forecast that over the new next five years, investlent in

:33:00.:33:02.

renewable energy could fall off the cliff. -- Bloomberg. I think the

:33:03.:33:10.

world and 2016 as a much more uncertain place for investmdnt.

:33:11.:33:16.

Bloomberg predicts the country will lose at least one gigawatt of

:33:17.:33:20.

renewable energy generation because of the early closure of the

:33:21.:33:24.

renewable obligation. That hs not good news, as with solar fedd in

:33:25.:33:29.

tariff, the government is changing energy policy with very little

:33:30.:33:33.

notice and that really damages investor confidence. And puts risk

:33:34.:33:44.

jobs -- at risk. Hundreds of those jobs, has its main manufacttring

:33:45.:33:50.

plant in my constituency. Enclose a people. Solar also want to leave

:33:51.:33:54.

five years ago with the first proposal for changes to the

:33:55.:34:00.

terror... Which manufactures in practice with reduced insulhn

:34:01.:34:02.

installation, excellent temperatures. I want to say high

:34:03.:34:10.

skill jobs from Crimson and can expand and Wakefield, safegtarded

:34:11.:34:15.

and secured for the future. On to say something very quickly `bout

:34:16.:34:19.

smart metres and the governlent s programme that is behind schedule.

:34:20.:34:24.

The government has tax energy supply for the style of the smart letres by

:34:25.:34:29.

2020. -- task. Contact the Linister when she is responding to look at

:34:30.:34:33.

the possibility of using thd installation is a way of edtcating

:34:34.:34:36.

household is about the dangdrs of carbon monoxide poisoning. Over 200

:34:37.:34:41.

people aged go to hospital with suspected carbon monoxide poisoning,

:34:42.:34:46.

and around 40 of these will die If you once in a generation ch`nce of

:34:47.:34:49.

going into people's homes, people should beware the carbon monoxide

:34:50.:34:54.

monitor so they are not averse, but they do have the opportunitx to

:34:55.:34:57.

difficulties that may be happening difficulties that may be happening

:34:58.:35:03.

with their boilers. The conference out there with about one of the

:35:04.:35:06.

concrete areas that we wantdd to minister to look at. Just to

:35:07.:35:11.

conclude, I think the policx should be on the dilemma, low bills, green

:35:12.:35:16.

energy. In the government's track records in the area has been

:35:17.:35:20.

chequered. The government ndeds to stop changing the goalposts on green

:35:21.:35:26.

energy and all changes reduce and affect our abilities to meet our

:35:27.:35:29.

common change target, they `ffect families, businesses and growth and

:35:30.:35:34.

to live up to our past record as a leading player, not just on the big

:35:35.:35:38.

picture, but also on green dnergy investment and tackling fuel

:35:39.:35:39.

poverty. Therefore to speak on this bill --

:35:40.:36:02.

grateful. I must say that I'm honoured to follow the Honorable

:36:03.:36:07.

Lady for Wakefield. I wanted to spell or pronounce the age she said

:36:08.:36:12.

we live in. -- what not. Shd spoke a lot about fuel poverty and H have to

:36:13.:36:18.

say I cannot think of ethics and measured has held my constituency

:36:19.:36:26.

tackled poverty. -- any measure It not 60% cheaper than it was a dear

:36:27.:36:30.

ago to fill those in gas tanks. In a safer diesel, petrol. That's the

:36:31.:36:39.

same. I welcome the fall. And all the prices. I was intrigued to hear

:36:40.:36:48.

illiterate the Member for Swansea West, on his front bench to lobby

:36:49.:36:56.

the American government to so we can increase of prices. I'll be

:36:57.:36:59.

interested to see what the leader of the Liberal party says about that.

:37:00.:37:04.

It is not about prices becatse the most part a part of this bill is

:37:05.:37:08.

that it brings forward the oil and gas authority. Clearly it is, for at

:37:09.:37:13.

a time of crisis for the industry. Members have spoken about ohl

:37:14.:37:18.

falling of $29, at that, if as well as $27, ... Even ten to one on or

:37:19.:37:30.

below $10 a barrel in the coming weeks. Incredible prices. Wd passed

:37:31.:37:36.

65,000 jobs lost in the sector since the beginning of 2014. -- wd have

:37:37.:37:45.

had. A difficult time for the industry, but are brusquely over to

:37:46.:37:48.

the 4 billion barrels left hn the North Sea. -- roughly. When the

:37:49.:37:55.

ineffective regulator at thhs time because they can bring stabhlity and

:37:56.:38:02.

encourage investment. I'm the expertise and industry, my

:38:03.:38:04.

background is director of a small business which is regulated by the

:38:05.:38:10.

financial services. It had to say the SCA was not a burden regulator,

:38:11.:38:15.

it dealt fundamentally, but it is important that sector than H have

:38:16.:38:19.

adjusted regulator and I'm sure he'll be the same in the oil and gas

:38:20.:38:24.

industry. That said we belidve the OGA is a critical catalyst for the

:38:25.:38:28.

work being undertaken to sustain offshore gas activity and the

:38:29.:38:33.

associated rep... This tool the capabilities to remain focused

:38:34.:38:39.

solely on this task. Another point, I must sake, one has to been on him

:38:40.:38:51.

rather with the S and P could do, suggested it was naive to think that

:38:52.:38:54.

the Scottish Government shotld try and do anything about the crisis

:38:55.:38:59.

which is that UK prices, but is hitting Scotland so hard. I do not

:39:00.:39:08.

think that will take their assessment what I said. Scottish

:39:09.:39:16.

Government views this new fhscal powers to support the whole gas

:39:17.:39:19.

industry was not something that I saw being manageable and th`t think

:39:20.:39:26.

otherwise would be naive. Stpport is being provided by the government has

:39:27.:39:31.

been well received. The govdrnment would have the power to raise tax,

:39:32.:39:35.

raise attacks and speak to the Chancellor and say we are actually

:39:36.:39:41.

worried about the crisis hitting our people. -- raise taxes. But are so

:39:42.:39:48.

controversial on court naivd about the? We have all this passion from

:39:49.:39:54.

the S and P after Rafa no, passion about Scotland and I would have a

:39:55.:39:57.

crisis of Scotland, and what are they doing about it? Have a duty to

:39:58.:40:01.

put their finger out, put a hand in their pockets and step up to the

:40:02.:40:08.

bridge here. -- pulled their finger. On the subject of dilution, we have

:40:09.:40:12.

devolution in England and Scotland. That's devolution. There is an

:40:13.:40:19.

important measure in this bhll in relation to planning onshord wind,

:40:20.:40:25.

and the result of this bill is power or the local people, but I `sked the

:40:26.:40:30.

Minister what will happen if combined authorities which would

:40:31.:40:35.

have suited to Paris, with that then take over declining powers that we

:40:36.:40:40.

would give to local authorities under this measure. There cdrtainly

:40:41.:40:50.

had my constituency -- we h`ve had. We had a major case of wind turbine

:40:51.:40:59.

and farms and were so, if I'm in a BBC TV fame. This was sadly

:41:00.:41:06.

rejected, with support from the communities. These amenities of the

:41:07.:41:15.

loop would very much welcomdd the measures contained in this bill

:41:16.:41:20.

That's these communities. On the subject upon it, we performdd by

:41:21.:41:25.

members -- of finding, if communities should have the say of

:41:26.:41:28.

onshore wind, why should thd same applied to fracking. I see the point

:41:29.:41:34.

they are making, but at the moment that planning rests with thd Noble

:41:35.:41:37.

pundit Lord Tillman authorities I do not say it did not, I was. .

:41:38.:42:00.

Lancashire has vanishingly hmportant issue with fracking at the loment.

:42:01.:42:06.

My position on this is fracking is controversial. Some the stuff we are

:42:07.:42:10.

hearing, Alice of the media was a terrible thing that can happen. I do

:42:11.:42:15.

not see how a District Council would ever approve of fracking application

:42:16.:42:18.

and the current climate. Get this industry am a potentially offers so

:42:19.:42:22.

much we had to at least givd it a go. Fracking could create the 7 ,000

:42:23.:42:30.

jobs with many areas -- in `reas of high unemployment. It is easy to

:42:31.:42:38.

support if your MP for suffhx. We have to recognise there are

:42:39.:42:42.

different context there. Renewables is an industry which is devdloped

:42:43.:42:48.

to, she has not got going, `nd we only have exploratory Gillette, who

:42:49.:42:51.

did not have commercial drilling. Need to get a chance to get some

:42:52.:42:53.

commercial drilling going to see what impact it has in reality so we

:42:54.:42:58.

can get away from some of the hysteria. I can't honestly believe,

:42:59.:43:10.

is he really arguing that bdcause fracking is controversial that that

:43:11.:43:15.

is the reason why communitids should be denied? Surely that is the reason

:43:16.:43:20.

why communities should be ghven a say. Is the point I am making. If

:43:21.:43:28.

you have a lot of hysteria `bout a sector, it can be very diffhcult to

:43:29.:43:32.

achieve a rational agents of the session. Let's not forget the whole

:43:33.:43:36.

point of planning is the fun applications must be considdred in a

:43:37.:43:40.

balanced fashion, and that lay not be possible. We do strategically

:43:41.:43:47.

need this industry. I know ht is divisive and all my numbers showed

:43:48.:43:51.

that, if I was an MP in Lancashire and happy issues, I'm sure H will

:43:52.:43:57.

will be difficult to cope whth that. There is potential. I wonder if he

:43:58.:44:06.

would share my view that wotld be plummeting price of oil, thdre is no

:44:07.:44:13.

way of the Opec is going to allow another country to develop `

:44:14.:44:17.

commercial fracking enterprhse and the costs associated in the planning

:44:18.:44:24.

prices when I present sufficient evidence on the investment, in order

:44:25.:44:27.

to support aid UK fracking check the wall this is as low as it is. -

:44:28.:44:36.

sector. A interesting questhon. Today I think the first evidence

:44:37.:44:43.

than off additions of you if she finally started to fill in response

:44:44.:44:51.

and price. -- shell. I happdn to think that... US production of shell

:44:52.:45:03.

may be about to fall, that has not started to explore what thex have

:45:04.:45:07.

got and when they do, it will have a big impact on the LNG markets both

:45:08.:45:12.

in Europe and the Far East. That is to case and I am supporting. There

:45:13.:45:19.

is no doubt that you left she has had the single biggest impact on the

:45:20.:45:25.

following oil price. There `re many factors and I'm grateful for that

:45:26.:45:29.

because I think the economic impact will be huge. There are manx people

:45:30.:45:33.

in the other place who sat hn the debate that because the oil price

:45:34.:45:39.

was so low, that they should use the opportunity to introduce for the

:45:40.:45:44.

winnable fossil. We know thd price will not be temporary, but `lso make

:45:45.:45:50.

the point when energy prices are low, the negative impact of the

:45:51.:45:53.

energy crisis we are saying like loss of jobs, lack of confidence, of

:45:54.:45:58.

the the stock market, the f`lling energy prices allow automathc

:45:59.:46:03.

economic stabilisers. There really economic pressure and help the

:46:04.:46:08.

community -- country to keep going. I support this bill because I

:46:09.:46:14.

believe it will give stabilhty and features to an industry which are

:46:15.:46:18.

struggling at the moment. That is a a part a part of it. I also support

:46:19.:46:22.

the part about global oblig`tion and I look forward to going to currently

:46:23.:46:23.

in committee. It is a pleasure to speak after so

:46:24.:46:33.

many engaging and insight for cost reasons this evening. It has almost

:46:34.:46:41.

been ten years since the Prhme Minister, the been the Leaddr of the

:46:42.:46:47.

Opposition, five years sincd declaring his determination to lead

:46:48.:46:51.

the greatest government ever. As soon as the Prime Minister walks

:46:52.:46:55.

down the Downing Street, made his way to the Rose Garden, and what he

:46:56.:47:00.

was out of earshot, what did he do? He instructed his advisers to, and I

:47:01.:47:07.

quote" cut to the drink clap." I said is not to to him -- cl`p. I say

:47:08.:47:16.

it because it shows the unddniable truth, that talking is easy, but the

:47:17.:47:22.

action is hard. We see that the government's failure to act to

:47:23.:47:26.

support the steel industry `nd jobs in my constituency, and we see it on

:47:27.:47:29.

climate change. Warmer words will not stop global warming, only

:47:30.:47:34.

contrary action. The connection between how we tackle climate change

:47:35.:47:38.

and how we get our energy is self evident. For that reason thd deck

:47:39.:47:46.

was set up, and white view, change committee acted to reduce elissions

:47:47.:47:53.

by 2050. We need a detailed plan to move to a low carbon economx. The

:47:54.:47:58.

government is enthusiastically dismantling that, injecting

:47:59.:48:03.

uncertainty and instability into the energy sector as possible. H was

:48:04.:48:10.

privy to the thoughts of CEOs and leaders, and most of those people

:48:11.:48:14.

got it, they would tell me that our business is not sustainable. If our

:48:15.:48:21.

plan is not sustainable. It is not the case that does this in the

:48:22.:48:26.

private sector could be part of the sustainability, the truth is that

:48:27.:48:29.

the business community wants to part with government on a green growth.

:48:30.:48:33.

Like me, they have seen the reports that unchecked climate change

:48:34.:48:37.

threatens a 4.2 tooling dollars of assets around the world. Thdy know

:48:38.:48:41.

that sustainable business ndeds a sustainable planet. I have seen the

:48:42.:48:47.

revolutionary capacity of private sectors acting in concert of public

:48:48.:48:53.

goals, but that requires support from government. Part of th`t

:48:54.:48:57.

government to support must be about creating an environment of

:48:58.:49:01.

certainty. Business can onlx mobilise and invest its intdllectual

:49:02.:49:04.

and financial capital in grden energy if it can have some sense of

:49:05.:49:08.

certainty. If it can be surd that the floor will not be pulled out

:49:09.:49:13.

from underneath it overnight. It is on this that the government is

:49:14.:49:16.

failing, and with this bill in particular. Already the govdrnment

:49:17.:49:20.

has decided to block the solar industry from any certainty over

:49:21.:49:24.

terrorists that they will rdceive once projects are finished. Now we

:49:25.:49:30.

see greater uncertainty injdcted around the issue of carbon capture

:49:31.:49:35.

and storage, and wind farms with early closure of renewable

:49:36.:49:38.

obligation. Onshore wind is most cost effective and low carbon in the

:49:39.:49:46.

UK. The government decision to retrospectively cold desk close down

:49:47.:49:52.

the scheme, something not contained in the manifesto, is an exalple of

:49:53.:49:56.

reckless chopping and changhng of policy. It should be worrying for

:49:57.:50:02.

the reasons following. It whll cost hundreds of highly skilled jobs

:50:03.:50:06.

they will be laid off because of the government's mismanagement of

:50:07.:50:10.

subsidies. Second, the government claims that ending solar and wind so

:50:11.:50:16.

energy will save money. Most of those savings will be offset by

:50:17.:50:22.

hand-outs to more energy projects. The government's approach is

:50:23.:50:27.

inconsistent. Stripping awax clean energy for the cheapest energy just

:50:28.:50:32.

when it is on the verge of nonrenewable so at the same time as

:50:33.:50:39.

new subsidies. That is not ` fair market, it is about ideologx.

:50:40.:50:42.

Thirdly, all of this has bedn done with no notice, and it will totally

:50:43.:50:49.

wreck investor confidence. H have to ask the Secretary of State to put

:50:50.:50:54.

herself in a position of investor in the energy market. Faced with the

:50:55.:50:59.

choice of investing in the TK or the US where renewable energy h`s

:51:00.:51:02.

doubled under President Obala, where would she choose? A UK or Gdrmany,

:51:03.:51:09.

where 6% of the energy sector has increased to 30% in 2014, where

:51:10.:51:13.

would she choose? Does the Secretary of State really think... He mentions

:51:14.:51:22.

Germany where Germany's -- renewables are more in the TK. In

:51:23.:51:30.

Germany carbon emissions ard higher than the more part of their GDP Can

:51:31.:51:37.

he accept that the government has a responsibility to decarbonize as

:51:38.:51:46.

cheaply as possible? Prices are doubled for products to the

:51:47.:51:49.

equipment company in Germanx. Does he not accept that part of what

:51:50.:51:55.

government must do is mitig`te that? I accepted that there has to be

:51:56.:51:59.

exceptions for energy in terms of industries. That is why the steel

:52:00.:52:03.

industry has needed compens`tion packages for over four years, the

:52:04.:52:09.

Chancellor recognised that hn 2 11. It is taken until now to get it

:52:10.:52:12.

sorted, and one of the reasons for that is because we are expending

:52:13.:52:15.

political capital in Europe trying to negotiate. That is anothdr case

:52:16.:52:22.

altogether. Does the Secret`ry of State think that investors will

:52:23.:52:26.

choose the UK, where you cotld be liable to see your governmental and

:52:27.:52:29.

regulatory support White aw`y overnight with no warning? ,- wiped

:52:30.:52:39.

away. Or will you invest in emerging markets such as China, which is now

:52:40.:52:43.

investing more in clean energy than the whole of Europe, or Indha who

:52:44.:52:50.

are planning a fivefold increase in their energy investment instead of

:52:51.:52:54.

putting their money into an uncertain British market. Wd must be

:52:55.:52:57.

clear that this uncertainty will affect renewable sectors, there will

:52:58.:53:04.

be contagion elsewhere in this assault on investors urgencx. Also,

:53:05.:53:09.

today of all days, I needed to talk about a specific example whdre the

:53:10.:53:14.

government has failed to act decisively and creates urgency,

:53:15.:53:19.

where it is costing our country dearly. That is the Swansea Bay

:53:20.:53:27.

tidal lagoon. There are a thousand redundancies, 750 being in ly

:53:28.:53:34.

constituency. I can scarcelx believe that I would hear such a cldar

:53:35.:53:39.

example of sadomasochism. From a member who represents a stedl mining

:53:40.:53:43.

industry, calling for the hhghest cost energy in the Western world to

:53:44.:53:48.

go ahead, which could only lake the problem of the jobs of his workers

:53:49.:53:54.

even worse. I can't imagine how he stands any chance of getting

:53:55.:54:04.

reelected. The member is right, I will leave the last bit of the

:54:05.:54:08.

intervention to my constitudnts What I would say is that I would

:54:09.:54:14.

explain the need for compensation package for energy intensivd

:54:15.:54:22.

industries. As I have mentioned before in my speeches on thd steel

:54:23.:54:27.

industry, the government's foot dragging is the major reason for the

:54:28.:54:33.

crippling of the steel industry too little too late. This happened

:54:34.:54:37.

because of the government's failure to act on the dumbing of Chhnese

:54:38.:54:45.

steel, no long-term strategx, and no concrete action on procuremdnt and

:54:46.:54:53.

energy. The priorities for ly constituents are to support

:54:54.:54:55.

transitions for those made redundant. In the Swansea B`y tidal

:54:56.:55:00.

lagoon project, there is an attack opportunity for job creation and

:55:01.:55:04.

support to the steel industry because of the turbines that would

:55:05.:55:07.

be at the heart of the lagoon project. The government has dodged

:55:08.:55:13.

and delayed the decision. Every day or week of delay cost months or

:55:14.:55:18.

years, and it costs jobs. The Swansea Bay tidal lagoon wotld be

:55:19.:55:21.

the first of its kind in thd world, and it shows how important ht is for

:55:22.:55:26.

the government to create certainty. My constituency urges the Sdcretary

:55:27.:55:32.

of State to take urgent acthon to support this. We have been let down

:55:33.:55:37.

it too many times, today behng a prime example. It is time the

:55:38.:55:41.

government took action, so H would appreciate an reply from thd

:55:42.:55:48.

Secretary of State. It is not just do this, that the government is

:55:49.:55:52.

failing on. The disorders and to act on the CCS project, when thd UK is

:55:53.:55:57.

on the brink of securing investment from the European sector puts the

:55:58.:56:05.

CCS at risk. CCS technology offers the carbonization, transforling

:56:06.:56:07.

nonrenewable energy into solething that could be made part of ` viable

:56:08.:56:11.

sustainable energy mix, it `lso supports jobs. Again, we sed a

:56:12.:56:17.

government unable to create an environment of certainty for

:56:18.:56:19.

investors, employees, and for our country. Energy security is poor

:56:20.:56:25.

risk, as is the future of otr planet. There can be no doubt, the

:56:26.:56:30.

government's actions are behng noted around the world. The Prime Minister

:56:31.:56:35.

will parade his prime -- Paris Accord agreement, while members in

:56:36.:56:40.

the House see him slashing dnergy funding. We face an uphill battle to

:56:41.:56:51.

meet our EU target. We should ask, what is it the theme running through

:56:52.:56:55.

this? I think it is a government driven by the politics of now, as

:56:56.:57:04.

white a 2005 we saw other pledges. That is why we saw the ditching of

:57:05.:57:10.

the Green deal, a pesky pussy that the Labour government left.

:57:11.:57:16.

There were too many complaints of their local association meetings,

:57:17.:57:24.

because there were too many expensive nuclear projects `nd a

:57:25.:57:28.

cozying up to China. The government did not feel that green isstes were

:57:29.:57:33.

fashionable anymore, becausd internal politics of the

:57:34.:57:37.

conservative party pushes them back to their conflict ground, and away

:57:38.:57:40.

from a commitment to a sust`inable fixed -- future. This cannot be met

:57:41.:57:48.

by short-term thinking and management. The conservativd party

:57:49.:57:52.

finds to be entrepreneurs, so I think that it is time they `ct like

:57:53.:57:57.

it. With an entrepreneurial state willing to collaborate, working with

:57:58.:58:01.

the support of those in the private set sector who want to build a

:58:02.:58:04.

sustainable future. There h`s to be a collaborative approach to business

:58:05.:58:08.

and government, and that thd heart and environment of certaintx. That

:58:09.:58:12.

is how investment will be sdcured and jobs will be secured. Most

:58:13.:58:17.

importantly, how we will sit for a sustainable future. Stop destroying

:58:18.:58:24.

investor confidence, stop the insurgency, and to start supporting

:58:25.:58:29.

a sustainable energy market for the future. I would remind the House

:58:30.:58:38.

that I provide advice for the industries. At $20 a barrel, the

:58:39.:58:43.

North Sea and its investment faces a damaging threat. And the bus can now

:58:44.:58:50.

weather in the new future it might change its policy and reducd

:58:51.:58:54.

capacity and put the price tp. None of us can now when enough c`pacity

:58:55.:58:58.

will be closed elsewhere in the world where there are exposdd

:58:59.:59:04.

investments and high costs. To this apply back into line with ddmand and

:59:05.:59:09.

to get oil price higher. All we can do at the moment is to try to manage

:59:10.:59:14.

what we have. Today, we havd a very low oil price by recent historical

:59:15.:59:20.

standards. It has undermined the business model in the investment

:59:21.:59:25.

case for many parts of the hndustry. I am delighted that the secretary of

:59:26.:59:30.

state has pledged very strongly that she sees the North Sea as a

:59:31.:59:35.

fundamental part of Britain's energy requirements in the future, and the

:59:36.:59:38.

fundamental part of our indtstrial base. That indeed, it is. The North

:59:39.:59:43.

Sea has not just formed substantial energy serves, but it has enabled

:59:44.:59:51.

the growth of a large number of technical jobs and talented people

:59:52.:59:54.

working in a large number of companies. The Scottish Nathonalists

:59:55.:00:01.

say of this review again and have higher rates going forward. At the

:00:02.:00:06.

moment there is no revenue coming into the Treasury from the OC taxes,

:00:07.:00:11.

because the oil prices so low and the investment is damaged. H am

:00:12.:00:15.

relaxed about their advice, and I'm sure the will think carefully about

:00:16.:00:22.

the support for going forward for more investment. I have to warn the

:00:23.:00:27.

house that if you were exceddingly generous about North Sea taxation,

:00:28.:00:31.

it will not be enough to make a difference against the $28 will

:00:32.:00:39.

price. Now what we are battling for is not the revenue we use to get, we

:00:40.:00:43.

are battling for the substantial income tax revenues that we have

:00:44.:00:49.

been getting as the UK and Scotland on the highly paid jobs in the

:00:50.:00:53.

Aberdeen area and other supporting areas and in the North Sea. If we

:00:54.:00:59.

are not careful, $28 a barrdl oil will lose a large number of those

:01:00.:01:03.

jobs, some of them are alre`dy gone. It will flatten the incomes of

:01:04.:01:07.

others, and it will mean a very big hole in the Scottish income tax

:01:08.:01:13.

revenues on top of the damage done to the UK's Scottish revenuds from

:01:14.:01:17.

the oil itself. That is why I hope that the Treasury and my frhend will

:01:18.:01:21.

work with the industry to come up with any kind of scheme that gives

:01:22.:01:26.

us a chance of reinvesting. We need to use the best extraction

:01:27.:01:29.

techniques, the best technologies, we need the industry to work on its

:01:30.:01:34.

cost base, because this will require some the major. He is also right

:01:35.:01:43.

that security of supply must be the single most important thing. She

:01:44.:01:47.

tries to balance security whth cost and green issues, but she is right

:01:48.:01:51.

to regard security is fundalental thing. If there are tensions, surely

:01:52.:01:56.

the government must put sectrity before all others. In our policy, we

:01:57.:02:04.

are relying more on interconnectedness. I would have a

:02:05.:02:07.

word of warning that it via a short-term solution, but to

:02:08.:02:11.

interconnect our supply to the continent of Europe, a conthnent

:02:12.:02:15.

sure of energy resources dods not make us more secure. When you bear

:02:16.:02:22.

in mind the importance of Rtssian gas throughout our continent, and

:02:23.:02:26.

the further east you go, I do not wish that in the long-term by

:02:27.:02:31.

country be geared to in energy short continent dependent on Russhan

:02:32.:02:38.

goodwill. Our security supply must rely on indigenous UK resources

:02:39.:02:41.

renewable and carbon based hn the right balance. Above all, coming

:02:42.:02:49.

from generation resources that provide continuous and flexhble

:02:50.:02:53.

supply, I support this bill in its wings sections. I have been a critic

:02:54.:02:57.

of wind, saying that is far too expensive. It is expensive because

:02:58.:03:04.

you cannot rely on wind, so you need to bill to power generators to be

:03:05.:03:11.

secure. You have wind, which sometimes works, and then you need

:03:12.:03:16.

hundred percent covered for the wind in other cases with some types of

:03:17.:03:19.

generation in case of the whnd does not blow. As the wind does not blow

:03:20.:03:25.

when it is really cold and when the industry needs energy, it is

:03:26.:03:27.

important that you have the further back-up. Average me to the second

:03:28.:03:34.

most important proposition that she handles, cost. We have all witnessed

:03:35.:03:37.

today and extremely sad announcement in this house, one of a serhes of

:03:38.:03:43.

sad announcements about our steel industry. The Minister chiddd me to

:03:44.:03:47.

say that as I believe in markets, why did I want British investment

:03:48.:03:54.

projects to buy British stedl? I would like to reassure the

:03:55.:04:00.

government from best -- front bench -- my salary is paid from the taxes

:04:01.:04:05.

paid by people who go to work in my country. It is only courteots to buy

:04:06.:04:09.

some of the more expensive products when I can afford a car. Sililarly I

:04:10.:04:15.

like to take holidays in England, because the ads to the jollhty of

:04:16.:04:22.

nations, and provides circulation of the salary that I am paid hdre. I

:04:23.:04:26.

have always believed that if you live in a society or political

:04:27.:04:30.

community, you have to accept mutual obligations. I strongly belheve that

:04:31.:04:36.

when we are voting huge sums of money for large investment

:04:37.:04:39.

programmes that have a steel components, and they are voted by

:04:40.:04:42.

us, we should go to the next stage and say that by the way, we want

:04:43.:04:47.

competitive British steel to be at the core of this. We ought to be

:04:48.:04:52.

able to live that down as a requirement and still have

:04:53.:04:54.

competition between different British country -- thunder benders

:04:55.:04:57.

and keep them competitive. Because we have so much wind in our

:04:58.:05:08.

system and that we have to provide back up on top of that, the cost of

:05:09.:05:12.

our energy has become a verx high. It is undermining the industrial

:05:13.:05:16.

policy that my right honour`ble friend the Chancellor set ott in the

:05:17.:05:19.

previous parliament seeking the march of the makers. We will only

:05:20.:05:24.

get the march of the makers on the scale that we want if we offer cheap

:05:25.:05:29.

energy. Our energy needs to be cheaper than Germany's. Thex need to

:05:30.:05:36.

be competitive. It is far from competitive at the moment. Lodern

:05:37.:05:40.

industry is very energy intdnsive. It is not just the so-called eight

:05:41.:05:46.

energy intensive industries that attracts subsidy, it is gendral

:05:47.:05:49.

process industry that is endrgy intensive as well, because ht is

:05:50.:05:53.

highly automated and the gr`nt that is now provided by electrichty

:05:54.:05:57.

driven machinery, not by hulan hands and arms. We need to understand that

:05:58.:06:04.

one of the core elements of any successful industrial policx must be

:06:05.:06:08.

cheap energy, and therefore I wish my right honourable friend dvery

:06:09.:06:12.

success in trying to bring together those three different components of

:06:13.:06:16.

heard policy to bring more dvident the Mac emphasis on cheaper energy.

:06:17.:06:24.

To do that we need a new generation of electricity plant that h`s cost

:06:25.:06:29.

as one of its main consider`tions, and that may well be gas pl`nt. At

:06:30.:06:34.

plant has to operate for considerable lengths of timd in

:06:35.:06:38.

order to get the proper economy to scale. The danger of our current

:06:39.:06:42.

system is that we need to m`ke sure to pay as much energy at anx given

:06:43.:06:50.

time. If energy is availabld with wind energy, that makes the cheaper

:06:51.:06:54.

energy dearer, because he c`nnot run a base load anymore, and thd cost of

:06:55.:07:00.

switching on and off become large. Three cheers for this bill, three

:07:01.:07:06.

cheers for the secretary of state. Let's not rely on to form the

:07:07.:07:10.

supply, let's not rely on whnd. Let's have reliable electricity at a

:07:11.:07:21.

price the industry can afford. Is a pleasure to follow the honotrable

:07:22.:07:25.

gentleman. The Conservatives and manifesto for the 20 15th election

:07:26.:07:32.

undertook to metre climate change commitments cutting emissions as

:07:33.:07:36.

cheaply as possible to save money. Welcome action towards achidving

:07:37.:07:42.

this goal, particularly recdnt action -- action does not sdem in

:07:43.:07:50.

compliance with climate change agenda. With technology, cldan

:07:51.:07:57.

renewable energy can be less expensive to the consumer than the

:07:58.:08:00.

traditional carbon based endrgy Creating market incentives to

:08:01.:08:11.

achieve is -- an intervention. Is he saying that renewables are cheaper

:08:12.:08:19.

and they do not need subsidhes? Discuss. Thanks you for your

:08:20.:08:27.

intervention. The price guaranteed for 35 years, that would be a case

:08:28.:08:31.

and point in case of altern`tives that may be cheaper in the future.

:08:32.:08:37.

Energy storage, allied to the intermittent nature of wind power.

:08:38.:08:40.

We talk about eggnog logical prior to coming here I was fortunate

:08:41.:08:54.

enough to work in the energx sector for 13 years, and for considerable

:08:55.:08:59.

time was shall's contract ldader for the project, and moved to from power

:09:00.:09:07.

stations to the Peterhead g`s fire station. I understand all too well

:09:08.:09:12.

what advances in technology means. When we were talking about the

:09:13.:09:18.

process we were talking when before the rug was pulled under our

:09:19.:09:22.

collective feet, we are likdned the technology process to the mobile

:09:23.:09:29.

phone. You see the gentleman is not yet enough not to forget is clunky

:09:30.:09:37.

mobile phones. That technology would capture 90% of renewable endrgy

:09:38.:09:42.

omissions. With advances in technology to develop this process,

:09:43.:09:47.

we can be 92, 94, 96, ever reducing costs. This was a missed

:09:48.:09:51.

opportunity, that was the point I was making. 2-pronged goal of

:09:52.:10:00.

cleaner energy requires UK involvement in the energy sdctor and

:10:01.:10:03.

rethinking the relationship with energy. As part of the energy bill

:10:04.:10:08.

the governor proposed to close the renewable obligation. As thd only

:10:09.:10:18.

current mechanism that enables Lars scale wind to enter the market, the

:10:19.:10:24.

proposed closure proposes a significant threat to the ftture of

:10:25.:10:31.

onshore wind sector and the UK's green manufacturing, export, and

:10:32.:10:35.

manufacturing potential. Thd cost associated with achieving these

:10:36.:10:40.

difficult decarbonization t`rgets. In the House of Lords, the

:10:41.:10:44.

government opposed grace periods designed to allow projects that

:10:45.:10:49.

committed sick significant investment under the expect`tion of

:10:50.:10:52.

delivering before April 2017 to proceed. Here's rejected thd causes,

:10:53.:10:58.

calling for the government to respond more fully to the

:10:59.:11:04.

substantive concerns of the industry of grace periods. I support this.

:11:05.:11:10.

Investors and developers nedd 3 for parliament on the future of

:11:11.:11:13.

renewable obligation without the surgeons he that investors will be

:11:14.:11:29.

able to take press with. Without such a route to market, the

:11:30.:11:36.

government increases the cost of meeting long-term carbonate

:11:37.:11:49.

reduction prices. The onshore wind industry has gone significantly in

:11:50.:11:55.

it recent years, 19,000 jobs in 2015. 18

:11:56.:12:04.

all give way. Why was there such a high import component in thd wind

:12:05.:12:13.

equipment we needed coming from Germany? That is something that we

:12:14.:12:22.

need to invest and research and develop in this country, another

:12:23.:12:26.

shortfall of this government and previous governments. That hs why we

:12:27.:12:31.

like behind in technology. We are advanced in subsea technology in the

:12:32.:12:35.

North Sea and we do it well. We had to research and development and the

:12:36.:12:38.

conditions to develop. Something that this government has fahled to

:12:39.:12:44.

do for wind. Scotland in particular has embraced the benefits of onshore

:12:45.:12:47.

wind with over five gigawatts operational projects and thd country

:12:48.:12:55.

swore to 70% of onshore wind project in the UK system. Onshore whnds has

:12:56.:12:59.

been the force behind renew`bles counting for half of Scotland's

:13:00.:13:05.

gross electricity consumption. It is also the cheapest source of

:13:06.:13:07.

renewable energy, and will be competitive with convention`l forms

:13:08.:13:12.

of generation. According to the committee of climate change, the

:13:13.:13:18.

fuel cost will be similar to that of gas generation in 2020, 80 ?5 per

:13:19.:13:26.

Mike megawatt. Prices could be considerably cheaper, and cost could

:13:27.:13:30.

continue to fall as the effhciencies increase. The energy bill ilpact

:13:31.:13:34.

assessment states that the Government institutes of employee

:13:35.:13:39.

six gigawatts of onshore wind by 2020, ten point operational around

:13:40.:13:44.

construction leaving at one point to gigawatts to come forward bdfore our

:13:45.:13:48.

closure in April. Under the grace periods that the government

:13:49.:13:55.

proposes, it further states that 2.9 gigawatts of onshore capacity with

:13:56.:13:57.

planning awaits construction that could've come forward earlidr.

:13:58.:14:03.

Meaning that up to 1.7 gigawatts capacity will be lost under the

:14:04.:14:07.

government's plans. 1.7 gig`watts looks like of onshore wind capacity

:14:08.:14:21.

equivalent to the annual power needs of over 900,000 homes. Clostre of

:14:22.:14:27.

the renewable obligation without closing for their utter wind could

:14:28.:14:32.

assess the market risk of UK falling behind in 2020 renewable targets,

:14:33.:14:36.

and increasing the cost of the carbon is in the energy system. The

:14:37.:14:41.

government's in impact assessment centralizes, closure would reduce

:14:42.:14:49.

bills by 30p per year. Government and industry must minimise,

:14:50.:15:03.

achieving reduction in carbon. It could increase overall cost of

:15:04.:15:07.

energy -- investment in our energy sector. Consumers could facd higher

:15:08.:15:16.

bills as the UK must rely more heavily on more expensive gdneration

:15:17.:15:19.

technologies as we seek to cut carbon from the sector by 2020. The

:15:20.:15:32.

latest edition of the renew`ble energy is touched on by a mdmber who

:15:33.:15:38.

is no longer here. It puts the UK at the number 11. For the first time

:15:39.:15:42.

the UK has fallen outside of the ten, down from number five hn the

:15:43.:15:50.

2014. CCI have been warding of the damage to the framework of the UK

:15:51.:16:02.

ability to provide structurd. More than half of the wind sure were not

:16:03.:16:09.

prepared to lend until the dnergy bill received consent, largdly due

:16:10.:16:15.

to the political and regulatory concerns and the lack of gales from

:16:16.:16:18.

the process and timing of the energy bill. The UK is not going to meet

:16:19.:16:31.

its target, covering the usd of technologies and transport. Of these

:16:32.:16:35.

three sectors, only electricity is on track at present. 50 ter`watt

:16:36.:16:43.

hours, made up of under delhvery of heat and transport. Increashng

:16:44.:16:48.

electricity from new renewable sources is cost-effective in the UK

:16:49.:16:51.

could make up some of that shortfall. As a benefit of `n

:16:52.:16:57.

established industry with a track record of delivering signifhcant

:16:58.:17:02.

capacity over short periods. The lack of clarity for renewable

:17:03.:17:06.

projects and its replacements and contracts for different means that

:17:07.:17:10.

Scotland is at risk for not meeting its own 2020 goal of 120% for

:17:11.:17:20.

renewables by 2020. In conclusion, I would like to thank those mdmbers

:17:21.:17:25.

who have contributed to those - this critical debate. White welcomed

:17:26.:17:30.

the market of form, it is essential to achieve clean and renewable

:17:31.:17:35.

energy. I have concerns abott the way that the government has enacted

:17:36.:17:40.

it in terms of onshore wind, carbon capture, the rich of oil and gas

:17:41.:17:44.

infrastructure, green investment bank, and solar energy. The closure

:17:45.:17:50.

of renewable obligations has been a huge blow for small independent

:17:51.:17:54.

developers whose projects h`ve potentially been compromised.

:17:55.:17:58.

Amendments introducing gracd periods must be introduced at committee

:17:59.:18:05.

stage. UK is backpedaling of obligations it created uncertainty

:18:06.:18:10.

among investors. I look forward to hearing proposals from the

:18:11.:18:13.

government about how these hssues will be addressed, and urge all

:18:14.:18:17.

involved to expedite the mentation of this bill as quickly as

:18:18.:18:20.

reasonably possible. The endrgy industry in the UK has been

:18:21.:18:24.

undermined by the government's continuous moving of the go`lposts,

:18:25.:18:28.

and it needs legislative assist stability to attract financd and to

:18:29.:18:34.

bring back a investor confidence that is essential to the excess of

:18:35.:18:35.

this industry. It is a pleasure to follow the

:18:36.:18:48.

honourable gentleman. He re`dily admits, he is concerned with undue

:18:49.:18:52.

modesty and that he has a htge wealth of knowledge in regards to

:18:53.:18:55.

the British energy sector whll stop that said, I cannot be alond on this

:18:56.:19:06.

side of the House in being slightly surprised by the relaxed nature of

:19:07.:19:12.

the best in people in regards to their trumpeting of the rendwables.

:19:13.:19:21.

Their largest industry sector and one of the... I am sure that

:19:22.:19:30.

commentators and others frol his constituency and elsewhere will note

:19:31.:19:34.

this. It is a pleasure to rhse and speak in support of the bill this

:19:35.:19:40.

evening. For those I'd think to look for what could be described as a

:19:41.:19:46.

golden thread that runs through UK energy policy, I think prob`bly

:19:47.:19:49.

looks in vain because as we have heard from many speeches today, it

:19:50.:19:54.

is broken down into so many sectors. All trying to generate one

:19:55.:19:58.

particular commodity, but looking them at different modes of

:19:59.:20:01.

generation in order to achidve it. The government has to wrestle

:20:02.:20:05.

between tensions and other lembers that reference the tension between

:20:06.:20:12.

cost-effectiveness of large,scale uses in industry as well as domestic

:20:13.:20:15.

users and trying to reduce demand. Through energy-efficient buhlds and

:20:16.:20:22.

reset that the honourable L`dy from Wakefield was talking about. To try

:20:23.:20:28.

and address climate change, and to ensure as another member made clear,

:20:29.:20:32.

the need for energy securitx. The security has to be absolutely at the

:20:33.:20:37.

top of the tree. I do believe that the government and Department

:20:38.:20:44.

wrestle with those often colpeting tensions on a daily basis btt

:20:45.:20:48.

clearly have security and stpply at the top of their agenda as well and

:20:49.:20:52.

that seems to be welcome. Bx the number of people who have spoken

:20:53.:20:58.

about fuel poverty. I share that concern as well. That is whx I

:20:59.:21:06.

trumpet the huge reduction hn the oil price and constituencies such as

:21:07.:21:12.

my which has well below the national take-home amount. Low oil prices for

:21:13.:21:18.

domestic heating is a godsend. Particularly when, I do not think

:21:19.:21:24.

there is a single house in North Dorset which has access to gas for

:21:25.:21:28.

example. Most of us will be looking to oil heating. Returning to

:21:29.:21:32.

specifics of the bill, I thhnk it is good news that we have part to my

:21:33.:21:38.

bipartisan support for this. And I welcome its creation. I think there

:21:39.:21:42.

are some notable points which could be focused on. The fact that the

:21:43.:21:48.

secretary of state in the bhll retains the environmental rdgulation

:21:49.:21:52.

and function, that is important It should be democratically accounted

:21:53.:21:58.

for by those people who deal with those regulations as we havd seen in

:21:59.:22:03.

regards to cracking. I also welcome the fact that the LGA will have

:22:04.:22:07.

access to company meetings, protection, and to have a role to

:22:08.:22:11.

play and dispute resolutions as well as imposing sanctions. I welcome as

:22:12.:22:17.

well be proposed changes and charges to ensure the LGA costs are more

:22:18.:22:22.

closely linked to those who benefit from it in services and functions. I

:22:23.:22:30.

do hope that when we come to debate and vote on this in committde, we

:22:31.:22:35.

will find the best MP support for the government stance on he`rt and

:22:36.:22:39.

captured storage. It seems to me that the amendments proposed and

:22:40.:22:45.

agreed in the other place I yet another unholy alliance of neighbour

:22:46.:22:51.

and others appear. It only seems to put a further burden on indtstry,

:22:52.:22:57.

particularly those operating within the North Sea to keep in pl`ce and

:22:58.:23:03.

up to scratch certain things they may see as redundant, adding to

:23:04.:23:11.

their costs. I hope we can have some agreement there. Just pausing,

:23:12.:23:15.

following the other place's vote on tax credits, they are reallx skating

:23:16.:23:24.

on incredibly thin ice. To vote against something which was so

:23:25.:23:27.

clearly contained within thd manifesto, which was so recdntly

:23:28.:23:33.

endorsed as May 20 15. The clear commitment I contribute to ly

:23:34.:23:36.

honourable friend for the work he has done in regards to offshore

:23:37.:23:41.

wind, it was in the manifesto and it was clear. I welcome as well, as

:23:42.:23:46.

contained in the bill, the changes to the planning regime in rdspect to

:23:47.:23:53.

the amount of power generatdd, this is to be determined by the local

:23:54.:23:58.

planning authorities. I do share a comment made by the shadow Secretary

:23:59.:24:05.

of State who is with the le`der s opposition at the current thme, I

:24:06.:24:11.

would like to see that extended as well to... I am trying to agree with

:24:12.:24:14.

the honourable lady, she is engrossed with her honourable

:24:15.:24:19.

friend. I would agree with her on the points that she has madd

:24:20.:24:22.

generally about the consumption of principle of greater communhty

:24:23.:24:26.

concentration in determining planning applications with ht comes

:24:27.:24:32.

to cracking, I think that would be the sensible conclusion. Cotld I

:24:33.:24:34.

just urge my honourable fridnd on the front bench, when he considers

:24:35.:24:41.

his bill further and relating to planning, she has a detailed

:24:42.:24:44.

conversation with her colle`gues in deep-sea LG in regards to the

:24:45.:24:49.

planning policy framework. H have seen in my life prior to becoming a

:24:50.:24:52.

member of Parliament too many instances where as my honourable

:24:53.:24:57.

friend from Daventry pointed out, and Inspector and or planning

:24:58.:25:02.

officer have said yes, we h`ve all of this, we understand about setting

:25:03.:25:08.

up or whatever it may happen to be, but the resumption of policx

:25:09.:25:11.

planning is the principal that they should go ahead. Paragraphs 97 in

:25:12.:25:18.

particular, the second will a point of that paragraph, while local

:25:19.:25:26.

authorities mandated to deshgn their policies to maximise renewable and

:25:27.:25:32.

low carbon development, wild diverse and taxes and etc. It is under

:25:33.:25:38.

paragraph 98 to say that it is exactly what is expected, the

:25:39.:25:42.

applications would be approved if any new changes were made to be

:25:43.:25:46.

acceptable. It is made to h`ve some tweaking in the national fr`mework

:25:47.:25:51.

to better reflect the welcole ambition of my honourable friend

:25:52.:25:57.

with regards to planning. This has been a very interesting deb`te and a

:25:58.:26:00.

lot of people have spoken forcibly, I think what we're going to see is a

:26:01.:26:06.

bill which comes through colmittee and hopefully to the floor of this

:26:07.:26:10.

house for a third reading, which takes head on the arguments deployed

:26:11.:26:17.

in the other place and frankly, shreds them. Because the arguments

:26:18.:26:22.

and basis for those arguments are frankly very shaky indeed. H

:26:23.:26:28.

understand that I as well and to serve on the energy bill colmittee

:26:29.:26:30.

and I look forward to playing my role and that in ensuring mx

:26:31.:26:34.

constituents and North Dorsdt and every constituent in this country,

:26:35.:26:37.

north or south of the border can have reliable security and dnergy

:26:38.:26:41.

which is cost effective and reliable. Thank you very much for

:26:42.:26:49.

the opportunity to contributing this important debate. I wanted to focus

:26:50.:26:54.

my brief comments on three `reas, the aims of the bill overall and

:26:55.:26:59.

CCS, given the activity on that issue and third on the Paris outcome

:27:00.:27:04.

and why there is a strong economic and up on a case for going back to

:27:05.:27:07.

the drawing board when it comes as legislation, not to state

:27:08.:27:11.

environmental one. When it was first published, the energy bill `ppeared

:27:12.:27:14.

to be competing for the Ward for Leesburg is less list of thd year

:27:15.:27:17.

and I have to say the competition for that will award is strong. It

:27:18.:27:21.

must've been some positive `nd the bill since it was first published,

:27:22.:27:27.

the Paris clinical, the picture remains unchanged. At a timd when we

:27:28.:27:31.

should be speeding up proponents of renewable energy, getting sdrious

:27:32.:27:35.

about efficiency and working out out the majority of fossil fuels in the

:27:36.:27:39.

ground, this bill takes us hn precisely the opposite direction.

:27:40.:27:42.

That is why I tabled a recent amendment to completely oppose it.

:27:43.:27:46.

The bulk of this bill takes for the oil and gas industry review

:27:47.:27:50.

WishList, it continues the delivery of the strategy to maximise the

:27:51.:27:54.

economic recovery of oil and gas, shockingly made into a legal duty in

:27:55.:27:58.

this bill. Were it not for the Lord's amendments there would also

:27:59.:28:03.

be hammering a nail in the coffin of the offshore wind industry. The only

:28:04.:28:07.

closure of the renewable obligation for onshore wind undermines

:28:08.:28:10.

investment, destroys jobs, `nd flies in the face of ministerial `rguments

:28:11.:28:15.

on cost. Especially with nuclear power. This ideological att`ck on

:28:16.:28:22.

offshore wind would crush the inspirations of many local

:28:23.:28:25.

businesses to harness it for their own benefit. The bill is unfit for

:28:26.:28:28.

purpose because of what it leaves out as well. There is nothing on

:28:29.:28:32.

energy efficiency, nothing on community ownership, maximizing the

:28:33.:28:37.

security and employment contribution of home-grown owners. There have

:28:38.:28:42.

been a number of welcome improvements to all sections of the

:28:43.:28:45.

bill, in particular I welcole Clause 80. Honest accounting of thd carbon

:28:46.:28:51.

reductions. Making sure that UK emission reductions only cotnt when

:28:52.:28:55.

they have to hear rather th`n relying on the EU TS as a excuse to

:28:56.:28:59.

carry on. The global carbon budget is so small that there is no room

:29:00.:29:02.

for further writers, least of all which have been like the EU. I want

:29:03.:29:07.

to turn to carbon capture storage because a lot of debate in the

:29:08.:29:11.

Lord's was about CCS and thdir new clauses on that as well. Thd fuel

:29:12.:29:17.

industry is desperate for CCS to get out of jail free cards. This is not

:29:18.:29:22.

only hugely expensive and economically unproven, but `lso does

:29:23.:29:25.

not stand up to scrutiny, ehther against the speed and scale of the

:29:26.:29:29.

carbon reductions that are needed. I would recommend to colleaguds who

:29:30.:29:35.

may agree with this, carbon tracker 2013 report that shows that even if

:29:36.:29:40.

CCS were deployed in line whth 050 projections, it would only dxtend

:29:41.:29:45.

fossil fuel carbon projections by a certain percent. Nor am I aware of

:29:46.:29:49.

any serious suggestion that CCS could even come online before 2 30.

:29:50.:29:54.

By which point the global c`rbon budget may already be used tp and

:29:55.:29:58.

even that timescale is subjdct for a long list of its. If politicians

:29:59.:30:05.

failed to heed this, if our actions fail to measure up to our words not

:30:06.:30:10.

only perpetuate widespread disillusionment and its eng`gement

:30:11.:30:12.

with politics, I think we whll also see more citizens, students,

:30:13.:30:16.

grandparents, social workers, scientists putting their bodies on

:30:17.:30:20.

the line and taking diesel `ction to keep fossil fuels in the ground

:30:21.:30:23.

This energy bill did illustrates why they have my support. The c`rbon is

:30:24.:30:28.

not the only reason to keep fossil fuels in the ground and go `ll out

:30:29.:30:31.

for renewables instead, carbon is not the only reason this endrgy bill

:30:32.:30:34.

is completely unfit for purpose But a strong purpose and economhc

:30:35.:30:40.

argument as well. Let me end by looking again at what the P`ris

:30:41.:30:43.

climate agreement should me`n for the UK policy. The conclusion of

:30:44.:30:49.

Paris is unquestionably a dhplomatic triumph. If the UK is seriots about

:30:50.:30:55.

keeping well below 2 degrees or doing their contribution to the

:30:56.:31:00.

goal, as a matter of life and death in countries, there are major

:31:01.:31:04.

implications for policy. It is important to emphasise the response

:31:05.:31:07.

including from business dat` has in many resource has been positive

:31:08.:31:12.

Many businesses are recognising the need and advantage of shifthng to

:31:13.:31:17.

post carbon economics. James Murray of a newspaper quotes, ... To the

:31:18.:31:27.

states detailing plans... From the development banks amending billions

:31:28.:31:32.

of dollars of new planet funding to the various sector alliances

:31:33.:31:38.

accelerating the development of power, zero emission vehiclds and

:31:39.:31:41.

other clean technologies, from the financial stability Ward's,

:31:42.:31:44.

disclosure commitments to multinational forms sourcing all of

:31:45.:31:47.

their power from renewables, it is increasingly clear that he shipped

:31:48.:31:51.

an proper engagement with climate change that has been gatherhng pace

:31:52.:31:53.

for the last decade is finally starting to come of age. And then

:31:54.:31:59.

there was the entrepreneur calling the time to action, a joint

:32:00.:32:04.

statement from 20 CEOs of n`tional operations which was issued in the

:32:05.:32:07.

climate talks. They made an incredibly powerful point, the

:32:08.:32:10.

technology and business moddls already exist for 100% fosshl free

:32:11.:32:16.

solutions, as opposed to a slightly better version of an alreadx

:32:17.:32:20.

existing polluting initiative. That is the direction of travel, that is

:32:21.:32:23.

recognised by many businessds and yet this government is lagghng far

:32:24.:32:28.

behind in this energy bill `ppears blind to the economic case. To make

:32:29.:32:33.

the Paris agreement meaningful, the government has to do more than

:32:34.:32:36.

restate its commitment to the climate change act, as important as

:32:37.:32:41.

that is, and stop talking mx past achievements. There's a big

:32:42.:32:44.

difference between meeting dxisting target and doing future targets

:32:45.:32:50.

There are some red lines proposed Paris energy bill. Those red lines

:32:51.:32:55.

include provision to get to 100 energy by 2050, at the latest by the

:32:56.:32:59.

UK. And keep the majority of fossil fuels in the ground. I look forward

:33:00.:33:03.

to working with honourable lembers across the House to change the

:33:04.:33:06.

direction of the bill, but `t this stage, I believe it's also sure of

:33:07.:33:11.

those red lines. The Paris `greement provides a stronger case to refuse

:33:12.:33:14.

to give this energy bill a second reading, to reject in its entirety

:33:15.:33:17.

and to demand that the government goes back the drawing board. It is a

:33:18.:33:24.

pleasure to follow the Membdr for Pavilion. I do not think it was

:33:25.:33:31.

house to learn that there w`s one paragraph in her remarks with which

:33:32.:33:36.

I agree. I am sure she will wear that with a badge of pride. I think

:33:37.:33:41.

we should remember why we all here tonight. Because with a few

:33:42.:33:46.

exceptions, we have not really addressed what is the main purpose

:33:47.:33:49.

of this bill when it was put forward, that was to implemdnt the

:33:50.:33:55.

wood review. That is why thd bill first came forward and the wood

:33:56.:34:01.

review is a very necessary review and it looks at creating a lore

:34:02.:34:06.

participative and sharing environment in the North Se`. Over

:34:07.:34:12.

the last decade of its life, at the time, it looked like the life was

:34:13.:34:15.

going to be a bit longer th`n it looks now. We should recall that

:34:16.:34:20.

this country has had two industries over the last couple decades would

:34:21.:34:24.

have been world-class. One of them has been banking and the other has

:34:25.:34:28.

been frankly oil and gas. That has been... It has made a massive

:34:29.:34:35.

contribution to the jobs and prosperity will stop the situation

:34:36.:34:42.

it finds themselves in, I think it is worse than some of the speeches

:34:43.:34:50.

would imply. Right now, the operating costs in the North Sea,

:34:51.:34:55.

not the development cost, not the exploration costs, the oper`ting

:34:56.:34:58.

costs, according to the wood review are around 28 - $30 a barrel. That

:34:59.:35:05.

is oil prices now. That is saying that not only are we not developing

:35:06.:35:08.

new oil fields, unless something changes, we will have to struggle to

:35:09.:35:15.

keep operating the platforms and activities we currently havd. It

:35:16.:35:20.

behooves this house to sort that out and do what he can. I do not think

:35:21.:35:24.

the wood review is going to make a big enough difference to make a big

:35:25.:35:27.

enough impact, but let's relember that there are 475 installations in

:35:28.:35:32.

the North Sea, platforms and whatnot that have to be decommissioned in

:35:33.:35:37.

the next few decades. 10,000 km 5000 wells, nearly 400,000 people.

:35:38.:35:44.

It does not employ them all, I often knock on the door when I'm talking

:35:45.:35:49.

to someone, where are you working? The work offshore. They work at some

:35:50.:35:55.

part of the supply chain. Every constituency here, every melber

:35:56.:35:58.

will have a large part of hhs constituency with high-paying jobs

:35:59.:36:02.

in the North Sea. It behoovds us to get this right. What we are trying

:36:03.:36:08.

to do is create this facilitative environment, just because shall want

:36:09.:36:14.

to abandon a platform or no longer use a pipeline, which might be

:36:15.:36:18.

useful to others, they will be prevented from doing and thd future

:36:19.:36:21.

because people will look at the bigger picture and say we are to

:36:22.:36:25.

maximise the whole operation. They used to be a sensible target. An

:36:26.:36:30.

essential objective of the bill as well, maximization of econolic

:36:31.:36:33.

recovery, and that is why I regret the Labour Party aren't banking to

:36:34.:36:39.

change that in the laws with this point on CCS. It is not we do not

:36:40.:36:44.

agree with CCS, it is not that CCS is not importing, it is that, to use

:36:45.:36:50.

the phrase that and the member said earlier, we need to have a laser

:36:51.:36:54.

like focus on the objective of keeping the industry and those

:36:55.:37:02.

354,000 highly paid good jobs in existence for as long as possible.

:37:03.:37:06.

That is why we want that, not because we do not believe in CCS. If

:37:07.:37:11.

you would like to interview, please do. That is precisely the point we

:37:12.:37:17.

need a long-term and short-term strategy which not be seeking to

:37:18.:37:21.

pick one against the other. That's why we'll be seeking to amend this

:37:22.:37:25.

bill, to make sure that where economically viable, those `re

:37:26.:37:30.

considered. Should I just go back to the point of how many adjectives can

:37:31.:37:35.

you give an agency like this, the North Sea is not that far away from

:37:36.:37:40.

being unviable. We need in this house to put our shoulders to the

:37:41.:37:45.

wheel with not caveats, but a practical set of solutions to set

:37:46.:37:51.

out in the wood work. I havd two points to make. Yes certainly. I

:37:52.:37:56.

think my honourable friend hs making an important point. Would hd not

:37:57.:37:58.

agree with me that the challenges that he has outlined about the

:37:59.:38:04.

long-term viability of North Sea oil and gas are further highlighted by

:38:05.:38:10.

the nuclear deal that is behng signed today. The fact that they

:38:11.:38:15.

would now be that supportivd oil going onto the global market, prices

:38:16.:38:21.

already depressed. He is right. Funnily enough, my review on that

:38:22.:38:26.

would be that is probably already discounted in the market.

:38:27.:38:30.

Nevertheless, of course mord oil will bring the price down. H would

:38:31.:38:35.

just say to the House, the lember opposite and I worked in thd

:38:36.:38:38.

industry for appeared of life, during that period, the phr`se that

:38:39.:38:43.

we used often was that the solution to low oil prices was low ohl

:38:44.:38:48.

prices. That at some point, there will be a market reaction. That is a

:38:49.:38:53.

long way off now and you ard right. It does not look as though ht is

:38:54.:38:57.

helpful. I have two points before we leave this area of the bill. One is,

:38:58.:39:02.

this is a point that members from the SNP would agree with. This new

:39:03.:39:06.

authority apparently is going to beat Aberdeen in London, based

:39:07.:39:10.

there. I would say to my own front bench, I do not have any

:39:11.:39:13.

understanding of why any of it has to be in London. Let's leavd it at

:39:14.:39:18.

that. We have this need in this country to have everything hn

:39:19.:39:22.

London. If anything, Iniest` only been in Aberdeen, I think that

:39:23.:39:27.

should. I think one final point on this is, I do not understand this,

:39:28.:39:32.

this authority is going to have issues with US competition law. In

:39:33.:39:38.

my experience, you could not even have a meeting between US ohl

:39:39.:39:42.

companies in the same room without lawyers involved because of their

:39:43.:39:47.

incredible concern about US antitrust laws. I just wonddr how

:39:48.:39:51.

the authority is going to ddal with that, but I am sure that solebody

:39:52.:39:56.

clever word than me will have thought about it. The CCS point in

:39:57.:40:03.

this bill, I want to talk to the next, before we get wide net climate

:40:04.:40:09.

change, I think in amending Clause 80, the opposition has forw`rd in

:40:10.:40:15.

the House of Lords, that Cl`use says broadly that no longer should we

:40:16.:40:22.

take credit from the EU emission trading system as part of the whole

:40:23.:40:25.

process. If we step back and take them I think about that, th`t is the

:40:26.:40:31.

party opposite seeing that they do not want a European solution in

:40:32.:40:35.

capping trade. I made this point earlier. It is true that thd system

:40:36.:40:41.

is completely useless, that is a different problem. It is colpletely

:40:42.:40:45.

useless because the European Parliament would not increase the

:40:46.:40:48.

cost of carbon, for example in the same way that we have. It sdems to

:40:49.:40:53.

me there is no reason to give up on the European solution. It sdems odd

:40:54.:41:01.

that the two parties opposite, those parties in this house wants to go

:41:02.:41:06.

away from a European solution to sorting out the missions. They want

:41:07.:41:10.

to go away, I have taken two interventions, they want to go away

:41:11.:41:15.

from the fact that what the world desperately needs, this might be a

:41:16.:41:19.

point that the member earlidr would agree on. We desperately nedd a cost

:41:20.:41:23.

of carbon in existence becatse if there was a cost of carbon, the

:41:24.:41:27.

investment decisions might cost the world in the same way and that is

:41:28.:41:31.

what the system was trying to deliver. It would be in better

:41:32.:41:36.

shape. I think it is a bit odd that the party opposite wants to take

:41:37.:41:38.

that view. I am not going to talk for length on the points th`t others

:41:39.:41:42.

in this house feel more strongly about, I have spoken at length about

:41:43.:41:50.

it and I would say it appears to be beyond, very clear that it was in

:41:51.:41:55.

the manifesto and we need to do that. I will say this though. The

:41:56.:42:01.

wind point goes to the core of one of the issues that we have with this

:42:02.:42:04.

whole climate change debate. That is the continuing confusion between

:42:05.:42:10.

renewables and decarbonizathon. I have heard speeches today in which

:42:11.:42:16.

members said that other people are building renewables more quhckly

:42:17.:42:20.

than we are even though the carbon output of theirs is more th`n hours.

:42:21.:42:27.

The truth is we need to be focused with laser-like efficiency on

:42:28.:42:32.

decarbonization, not just bringing in CCS and nuclear, other

:42:33.:42:39.

technologies, which focus on renewables as actually damaged. On

:42:40.:42:45.

Paris, the member earlier m`de a speech which I found strangd, but

:42:46.:42:52.

let me just say this. This goes for the whole house, I make this point

:42:53.:42:58.

every time. European commitlent for decarbonization, which they put

:42:59.:43:02.

forward, embarrassed, which we were a part of. It implies a

:43:03.:43:11.

decarbonization which is half the rate that the climate changd act

:43:12.:43:14.

that we passed in this housd requires us to do. It may wdll be

:43:15.:43:20.

that these countries that dhd that do not yet realise that we `re

:43:21.:43:23.

leading them. It may well bd that they have come down to the fact that

:43:24.:43:30.

they are slower than us, it may well be that they desperately want to

:43:31.:43:39.

protect their boils in a wax that perhaps has not gotten to the

:43:40.:43:42.

consciousness of this house and eight a certain extent. I whll

:43:43.:43:48.

finish just saying this on jobs We often hear how many jobs, solar

:43:49.:43:56.

wind, and of course that is regrettable. I do not know the

:43:57.:44:00.

extent to which those numbers are true. It is wrong to say th`t the

:44:01.:44:06.

higher prices do not also cost jobs. It is not just about giving relief

:44:07.:44:12.

to energy intensive industrhes, but if we expect to have a march of the

:44:13.:44:19.

makers in this country, to tse a phrase, and we expect that larch of

:44:20.:44:26.

the makers to be based on a energy regime which our manufacturdrs are

:44:27.:44:31.

paying 50% more. Not those hn China or the US or Singapore, not those

:44:32.:44:37.

countries, they are paying 40% more than in France, and Germany, and

:44:38.:44:43.

Holland. It is going to be tough. I just think that members of this

:44:44.:44:47.

house need to respect the government's duty to balancd cost

:44:48.:44:52.

with decarbonization and all that goes with it. We are going to have

:44:53.:44:59.

the drop into seven minutes, seven minutes. It is a great privhlege to

:45:00.:45:05.

follow on from the honourable member. He is modest but his

:45:06.:45:12.

expertise only match my expdrtise in this area, I am a passionatd

:45:13.:45:17.

supporter of climate change action and I must join other honourable

:45:18.:45:21.

members in congratulating the Secretary of State for her work at

:45:22.:45:27.

Paris a few weeks ago. Whild it serves to not necessarily stpport

:45:28.:45:30.

the campaign, I am helping with per the European Union. It is a shame

:45:31.:45:36.

that the EU did not follow where she was bleeding. There were a number of

:45:37.:45:39.

key areas in this bill that I want to focus on two areas as well as

:45:40.:45:44.

explain my concerns and constituent's concerns and

:45:45.:45:47.

reassurance around the Minister I would like to thank the minhsters

:45:48.:45:52.

for their support over the last few weeks and answering some of these

:45:53.:45:56.

concerns. As oil prices arotnd the globe tumble, this bill is timing as

:45:57.:46:00.

others have said as workers across the UK who rely on this are starting

:46:01.:46:05.

to struggle. We should be stpporting them as much as possible. That is

:46:06.:46:08.

why I'm a little shocked earlier on to hear the comments raised by the

:46:09.:46:15.

as MP member and not necess`rily supporting his constituents and the

:46:16.:46:22.

best way possible. Companies also seem not to be pausing to mx passing

:46:23.:46:28.

on the cost at the petrol ptmps which is not a point of this debate,

:46:29.:46:33.

I hope they would join my c`use and other causes in passing on the

:46:34.:46:38.

reduction to petrol pumps to consumers. I would also welcome that

:46:39.:46:43.

this bill will formally est`blished the gas Authority as an inddpendent

:46:44.:46:48.

regulator and as many of my constituents have contacted me on

:46:49.:46:51.

this issue. I fear the framdwork is not helpful enough. At the

:46:52.:46:56.

honourable member said earlher on, the Labour Party did little and 13

:46:57.:47:06.

years to do this for regulation It is a positive step in drafthng this

:47:07.:47:10.

bill, creating one to regul`te the whole sector and ensuring its

:47:11.:47:17.

growing and building interests. I'm particularly pleased the OT@ would

:47:18.:47:21.

mean making recommendations, this is the would review suggestions that it

:47:22.:47:29.

is necessary to guide the industry. It is crucial that where thd

:47:30.:47:36.

disputes, where there are dhsputes, the potential risk for recovery in

:47:37.:47:39.

the oil and gas rig industrx, there is nobody that can take acthon.

:47:40.:47:45.

Given that the OGA can choose to get involved in this, without h`ving the

:47:46.:47:48.

incident directly referring to it, it can take steps to get results and

:47:49.:47:53.

resolve the issue. Looking forward, once is independent regulator is set

:47:54.:47:56.

up, I can see it taking gre`ter control over the potential dnergy

:47:57.:47:59.

reduction industries, I hopd the Minister can ensure the House that

:48:00.:48:03.

that they are taking a holistic approach that and it can ensure

:48:04.:48:08.

effective regulation of those new industries. My second point Mr

:48:09.:48:12.

Deputy Speaker, I wanted for my attention to provisions of the bill

:48:13.:48:16.

relating to onshore wind. As I've said before to the House, I want to

:48:17.:48:20.

make it clear from the start, I am a strong advocate for this. This is

:48:21.:48:23.

where we should be focusing our attention on. These resourcds of

:48:24.:48:27.

energy that will save our environment as other members have

:48:28.:48:30.

say, climate change exists to make sure we are taking essential steps

:48:31.:48:35.

to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels. I want to see greater

:48:36.:48:39.

reliance on mobile energy, H also understand the government's

:48:40.:48:45.

reasoning for removing onshore wind. This must be done logically. To this

:48:46.:48:49.

end it is essential that thd developments do not rely on this to

:48:50.:48:55.

survive and can develop it hnto their own survival entities.

:48:56.:49:02.

Why does he think it is loghcal to lock ourselves into extremely high

:49:03.:49:08.

subsidies for nuclear physics 3 years, and yet for a few more years

:49:09.:49:12.

is all we would be for the renewables to become commercially

:49:13.:49:18.

viable, why a nuclear subsidy perfectly logical and the rhtual one

:49:19.:49:23.

is not according to have a? Thank you for your intervention, for me

:49:24.:49:28.

the nuclear industry partictlarly as we have said will benefit the

:49:29.:49:31.

economy for Somerset, says ` couple miles away from the other. Long term

:49:32.:49:37.

impact for the UK economy whll be Vesely fell to the pockets of the

:49:38.:49:43.

consumer. I think ultimatelx from her earlier speech she missdd that

:49:44.:49:47.

point. We already have enough onshore wind in the pipelind to meet

:49:48.:49:52.

our 2020 and, I find it intdresting that only a tiny portion of

:49:53.:49:57.

constituents that have cont`cted me about the bill has identifidd that

:49:58.:50:01.

the secretary is going to propose more on the wind that can bd

:50:02.:50:04.

achieved. The study show th`t onshore wind production produces

:50:05.:50:12.

more energy than onshore. Would this money be better spent on other

:50:13.:50:15.

renewable technology rather than phrasing on projects that should not

:50:16.:50:18.

be delivered? I would like to see the funds for onshore wind subsidies

:50:19.:50:23.

channeled toward alternativd renewable energy which could be

:50:24.:50:27.

supported by an investment hn Jackson, and the west of England,

:50:28.:50:31.

renewable energy is emerging as one of the key economies. They can

:50:32.:50:36.

certainly contribute to the national economy as well. To concludd, I hope

:50:37.:50:39.

that the Minister could givd reassurance to the house on both

:50:40.:50:42.

areas of this bill, I am pldased to the government has listened to the

:50:43.:50:45.

review, however I would likd to agree with my fellow Honorable

:50:46.:50:49.

members who need assurances from the Minister that the government

:50:50.:50:52.

considers climate change as one of the most important areas th`t we

:50:53.:50:56.

should be focusing on. It is affecting our planet today, as well

:50:57.:51:00.

as I need to invest in renewable energy sectors and good ways. Thank

:51:01.:51:07.

you Mr Deputy Speaker, the lission will be delighted that he spoke so

:51:08.:51:15.

quickly. It is a honour to rise to speak in this evenings debate, not

:51:16.:51:21.

least in my capacity as a mdmber of the energy and climate change select

:51:22.:51:25.

committee. The energy bill hs limited in scope, but the energy

:51:26.:51:31.

challenge faced by the government generally, is significant. For too

:51:32.:51:35.

long energy policy of previous governments, has focused exclusively

:51:36.:51:39.

on climate change, not the cost to consumers and energy security as

:51:40.:51:44.

well. I applaud the front bdnch as it is now, for their work and a

:51:45.:51:50.

rebalancing so that all parts of the trilemma oversees equal prolinence.

:51:51.:51:53.

As the transition Mr Speaker, from mostly carbon generating generation,

:51:54.:52:01.

to carbon free generation, ht is important to recognise the `bsolute

:52:02.:52:08.

target of this government, we must employ some sort of bridging

:52:09.:52:12.

technology, gas and biomass seemed the most obvious, to bridge the gap

:52:13.:52:17.

until the renewables sector is fully ready to stand-alone to meet the

:52:18.:52:22.

needs of this nation. We silply cannot risk the lights going out, by

:52:23.:52:27.

jumping to that too soon. I absolutely agree with the government

:52:28.:52:34.

that cold race is run. However, what is important to understand Lr Deputy

:52:35.:52:42.

Speaker, and into that before and biomass and any other technology

:52:43.:52:45.

that we employ is not mutually exclusive from continuing to promote

:52:46.:52:51.

and invest in other renewable technologies that are avail`ble

:52:52.:52:57.

Much has been made of the rdductions in subsidies to solar industry, but

:52:58.:53:01.

from our work in the committee, I think we have become increasingly

:53:02.:53:05.

struck, that there are other things that hamper our solar industry just

:53:06.:53:10.

as much. Not least the insistence by the European unions that Brhtish

:53:11.:53:14.

consumers a more to Chinese producers of photo for their solar

:53:15.:53:20.

insulation. The prices being implanted they are equally by the

:53:21.:53:25.

insistence that VAT is charged on solar sails, as if it was a home

:53:26.:53:30.

improvement rather than the very necessary energy generation that it

:53:31.:53:34.

is. Opportunities exist as we have heard this evening, tidal w`ve in

:53:35.:53:39.

onshore wind, -- offshore, there is a challenge in making sure that

:53:40.:53:44.

those are cost effective before they can be employed in charge of the

:53:45.:53:49.

bill payer. Offshore wind forms a big part of the energy bill and I

:53:50.:53:52.

make no apology for having been involved since campaigns to keep

:53:53.:53:58.

wind turbines off the Somerset levels. It was a manifesto

:53:59.:54:02.

commitment of the conservathve party, now the government, to

:54:03.:54:06.

deliver a reduction, in onshore wind. I urge the government to

:54:07.:54:12.

reinstate what was originally clause 60 six. So, that we in the selected

:54:13.:54:17.

chamber of parliament, can vote on our manifesto pledge with how the

:54:18.:54:20.

intrusion of liberal Democr`ts who seem to have abandoned this tabor

:54:21.:54:24.

altogether and use the Lords to do whatever it is they have left to do.

:54:25.:54:31.

So Mr Deputy Speaker, I would encourage you from bench to be

:54:32.:54:35.

enthusiastic about pushing the development of large-scale storage,

:54:36.:54:39.

to push on with the digital citation of our energy system partictlarly

:54:40.:54:45.

the world out of smart metrds, the D of the transmitter, and we have been

:54:46.:54:51.

struck by how the Secretary of State has been deleted with her colleagues

:54:52.:54:55.

in the Department for transport when they have not been running `t the

:54:56.:54:58.

same page as she would have wished them to. Mr Deputy Speaker, the

:54:59.:55:04.

other technology that I think comes into these green technologids is one

:55:05.:55:08.

of which I have a reservation. That is carbon capture and storage. The

:55:09.:55:13.

technology is exciting, the government has invested a into

:55:14.:55:17.

research for it, but the re`lity is that it is expensive to push on and

:55:18.:55:24.

the idea that our struggling oil and gas industry should be requhred to

:55:25.:55:28.

maintain spent wealth of thd North Sea for the porpoises of carbon

:55:29.:55:33.

capture and storage seems to me to be a unnecessary complication and a

:55:34.:55:38.

burden on them, at a time whth the industry is struggling. I hope the

:55:39.:55:43.

clause eight of the bill, as it comes down from the Lords c`n be

:55:44.:55:49.

removed. Clause 80 Mr Deputx Speaker, what I think that the House

:55:50.:55:52.

of Lords have been most unhdlpful and their adjustments to thd carbon

:55:53.:55:58.

trading, legislation, it makes no sense to me, that we should be

:55:59.:56:04.

accounting for the totality of our carbon emissions, when anything that

:56:05.:56:09.

therefore we do not use, under our EU trading scheme will simply be

:56:10.:56:14.

used by another country. We make no saving whatsoever for carbon

:56:15.:56:19.

emissions, as the clause has come down from the other place. H would

:56:20.:56:24.

like to conclude by speaking briefly about security of supply and

:56:25.:56:29.

therefore the reinvigoration, of the world and gas industry in the North

:56:30.:56:34.

Sea which I have applauded. By my reservations about the onshore or

:56:35.:56:38.

link -- industry, for which I have some concerns. The minister has been

:56:39.:56:48.

very kind, to deal with the concerns of my constituents and to hdlp me to

:56:49.:56:52.

fully understand what the legislation that have gone through

:56:53.:56:55.

Parliament recently will me`n for them. I think however, therd is an

:56:56.:57:01.

inconsistency, whereby the localism that we advocate so stronglx for

:57:02.:57:09.

wind turbines has not been subjected to for acting and I hope th`t there

:57:10.:57:13.

will be something to incorporate it. I equally think that our push for a

:57:14.:57:19.

Phrack ink industry, may be premature work there may be as

:57:20.:57:24.

liquefied natural gas on thd European and Asian markets. A

:57:25.:57:27.

significant amount being stored in the United States awaiting the

:57:28.:57:33.

opportunity to export which will serve the European market ftrther,

:57:34.:57:38.

and the Iranian give opporttnity for even more oil and gas... I will give

:57:39.:57:45.

way. I wonder how he scored his argument if he is in favour of

:57:46.:57:49.

maximizing target from the North Sea, and he has the exacted the same

:57:50.:57:53.

argument for maximizing -- on land and this country for the sale

:57:54.:57:58.

purpose of making sure that we do not have the money to a fordign

:57:59.:58:04.

regime. I square that simplx by having a profound concern for the

:58:05.:58:08.

way that the industry may affect the areas in which it is to be sad. Some

:58:09.:58:13.

areas will have geology and a community around it that support the

:58:14.:58:18.

industry, and that is for them to determine, by my plea to thd front

:58:19.:58:25.

bench is perhaps the extenshon to the tracking for the same localism

:58:26.:58:35.

that we advertise. To concltde, the Lords amendments from what H can see

:58:36.:58:38.

is unhelpful, I would be gr`teful for the front bench to bring back

:58:39.:58:43.

the bill as it originally w`s having struck off the Lords amendmdnts It

:58:44.:58:46.

is however important more than anything, that this bill makes quick

:58:47.:58:51.

progress through the house from here onwards, because the delay hs

:58:52.:58:56.

causing great uncertainty, which is having an impact on our or `nd -

:58:57.:58:59.

industry who can afford that at this time. -- ill afford that. I hope

:59:00.:59:06.

that they could remove clauses eight and 80 and they have my full

:59:07.:59:14.

support. It is an honour to follow the Honorable member from W`les I

:59:15.:59:20.

would begin by saying, therd is a unique and remote chance th`t

:59:21.:59:24.

perhaps you or my Honorable friend have not yet booked their holiday to

:59:25.:59:32.

the resort. I know that that booking is imminent, it is a experidnce as

:59:33.:59:40.

everybody knows. When Mr Deputy Speaker as you were arrived you will

:59:41.:59:44.

be able to look out while enjoying the finest physicians in thd

:59:45.:59:48.

country, onto one of the finest skylines in the country which is

:59:49.:59:55.

dotted by a small number of offshore wind turbines, and a couple of

:59:56.:00:01.

years' time, you may be abld to look out on a much larger number of wind

:00:02.:00:08.

turbines, if the project gods ahead. It would when it was origin`lly

:00:09.:00:13.

proposed for being the largdst offshore wind development in the

:00:14.:00:18.

world. For my part and the part of many tourists say that that view

:00:19.:00:24.

demonstrates that you can h`ve economic successful and is not

:00:25.:00:31.

entirely unpleasant to look at offshore power generation, that

:00:32.:00:35.

works well for all of us. Mr Deputy Speaker, on that journey to scab as,

:00:36.:00:43.

it is a sad thing as to what happens when energy policies go wrong. You

:00:44.:00:50.

may find yourself driving p`st the grade one agricultural land. It is

:00:51.:00:57.

studded with solar panels. Ht is the finest land in the country through a

:00:58.:01:01.

broken subsidy market is better used for solar panels and that it is for

:01:02.:01:07.

growing the finest crops th`t link is shared provides. We see hn

:01:08.:01:15.

Lincolnshire, what happens when these policies go wrong... H will

:01:16.:01:22.

give way. I'm grateful to hhm, if one chose to come from the north

:01:23.:01:28.

rather than from the directhon that my Honorable friend is suggdsting,

:01:29.:01:33.

he or anyone would be unfortunate enough to see a great number of wind

:01:34.:01:40.

farms onshore wind farms, I account at a very very quick swift count,

:01:41.:01:47.

six wind farms, with a well in excess of 40 wind turbines that scar

:01:48.:01:52.

the local landscaping was to be paid for by the subsidies. I'm stre my

:01:53.:01:56.

Honorable friend will join le in asking if that is the best tse of

:01:57.:02:01.

land in my constituency. Indeed bearing in mind these cars on the

:02:02.:02:06.

landscape, I would advise to take a different route on his way to his

:02:07.:02:15.

holiday. She needs a convincing not myself. LAUGHTER. I trust that is

:02:16.:02:21.

about the route and not the destination. I know that th`t is a

:02:22.:02:26.

fixture. My Honorable friend makes a very good point, of course hs that

:02:27.:02:31.

as size is why it is only rhght that we should give local communhties a

:02:32.:02:36.

greater say and those onshore wind farms, but I would speak evdn more

:02:37.:02:49.

seriously to make in fact one major point on this bill. That is the

:02:50.:02:54.

establishment of a regulator that will provide a genuine cert`inty

:02:55.:03:00.

over the coming years will be the single greatest things that we as a

:03:01.:03:05.

government can provide, to try I would hope to put the oil and gas

:03:06.:03:09.

industry onto a more sustainable footing. We know within the last ten

:03:10.:03:16.

days alone, the oil crisis has been one of many issues ?413 billion of

:03:17.:03:27.

the market, that's a the nulber of people employed has fallen from

:03:28.:03:40.

440,000 to 370 5000. -- 370 500 . Last year has the lowest level in

:03:41.:03:47.

taxation. We know the more now than ever that a stable void provide a

:03:48.:03:53.

stable footing that this industry desperately needs. As the Honorable

:03:54.:04:00.

right member said certainty is the friend of business. As the shadow

:04:01.:04:05.

Secretary of State said, we need to provide a stable environment if we

:04:06.:04:09.

are to encourage growth in that industry that employs many people

:04:10.:04:14.

now and will I hope to employ many more in the future. As has been

:04:15.:04:19.

said, there is a cross partx support for much of this bill, I hope that

:04:20.:04:25.

that will continue and that I hope we will see some of the

:04:26.:04:28.

uncertainties that have been produced in the role of the

:04:29.:04:32.

regulation by amendments and the other place removed. So that, the

:04:33.:04:38.

regulator has a clear and vdry stable set of objectives th`t will

:04:39.:04:45.

allow it to improve the poshtion of this industry which this cotntry as

:04:46.:04:50.

I have said needs to make stre that we have a stable position bdcause,

:04:51.:04:58.

as the rely more and more on interconnector we do need to make

:04:59.:05:02.

sure that when Europe does not have the energy reserves that we are

:05:03.:05:07.

lucky to enjoy in this country, we are not putting ourselves in a

:05:08.:05:09.

position where we are unfortunately exporting some of that energy rather

:05:10.:05:12.

than providing our own stable supply. Mr Deputy Speaker, H would

:05:13.:05:19.

conclude simply by saying, with the exception of your own newly sorted

:05:20.:05:26.

holiday, I hope that this bhll will provide the surgeon see that the

:05:27.:05:33.

industry me in order that it grows for the future rather than suffer

:05:34.:05:38.

from the terrible situation as we have seen in the oil industry that

:05:39.:05:42.

does threaten it and does I would say, indicate that even with some of

:05:43.:05:49.

the restrictions placed in the review may yet need further revision

:05:50.:05:53.

in order to better safeguard that industry for the future. I should

:05:54.:06:05.

state that I am chairman of the parliament for offshore oil and gas

:06:06.:06:10.

and that industry is a signhficant employer. I am also a partndr or

:06:11.:06:18.

family farmer there is a solar farm and I should not be common settings

:06:19.:06:21.

is busily on that technologx. Most of the bill focuses on the creation

:06:22.:06:26.

of the oil and gas Authoritx and I should be constant in my colments on

:06:27.:06:32.

the onshore -- offshore oil oil and gas. I will say a few words about

:06:33.:06:43.

wind farms. It is right, th`t all such planning applications should be

:06:44.:06:47.

determined locally but regardless of their size. It is a local community

:06:48.:06:53.

and local planning authoritx that who know the area is the best and

:06:54.:06:57.

play this should rest with them With regard to the removal of

:06:58.:07:02.

support, for onshore wind, `nd indeed other renewable technology,

:07:03.:07:06.

my request of government growing Florida, is that it should be done

:07:07.:07:10.

in an open and transparent way. Investors need to see a cle`r

:07:11.:07:17.

pathway and a point in time where there will be no subsidy. They will

:07:18.:07:21.

best attract investment, crdate secure long-term jobs, and reduce

:07:22.:07:27.

cost to the consumer on a long-term basis. The walling gas registry is

:07:28.:07:34.

facing very serious challenges, and is fighting for their very

:07:35.:07:38.

existence, tens of thousands of peoples livelihoods are on the line,

:07:39.:07:43.

70,000 jobs have been gone hn the past 15 months. This is prilarily

:07:44.:07:46.

due to the dramatic collapsd of oil prices. An example of the problems

:07:47.:07:51.

facing the industry, at the beginning of this year, the combined

:07:52.:07:57.

market value of 112 publiclx traded oil companies entirety of Bdrtens

:07:58.:08:04.

listed oil and gas industry excluding shell, BG -- BP ?7

:08:05.:08:16.

billion. Two years ago, one of these companies on its own was worth more.

:08:17.:08:25.

Mr Deputy Speaker, the UK offshore oil and gas industry still has a

:08:26.:08:30.

vitally important role to play over the next 30 years. Firstly, it is a

:08:31.:08:35.

Secretary of State herself has stated, energy security is the

:08:36.:08:40.

number one priority. Maximizing production of oil and gas at home,

:08:41.:08:46.

will reduce our dependency on imports. Secondly. 42 billion

:08:47.:08:50.

barrels of oil have been produced for the UK there are no resdrves of

:08:51.:08:55.

20 billion barrels of oil and gas to be in recovery from our own offshore

:08:56.:09:01.

waters. As she said in her speech, gas is a key role to play for our

:09:02.:09:09.

future economy. Thirdly, also.. I will give way. The oil reserves

:09:10.:09:23.

does he mean that the loss of carbon will enhance the recovery for the

:09:24.:09:34.

oral reserves. I think -- ohl I think they were right to concentrate

:09:35.:09:40.

on recovery of oil and gas hn the Northeast. What I would say with

:09:41.:09:43.

regard to carbon capturing `nd storage, I would view it is an

:09:44.:09:48.

entity that has a future, ilportant technology that has a futurd in the

:09:49.:09:54.

UK, but it is not yet maturd and we need to address the challenges

:09:55.:09:59.

facing the oil and gas industry and a concentrate and hold and on that.

:10:00.:10:04.

Thirdly, the Secretary of State State speech. This is an industry

:10:05.:10:14.

which in my own era will brhng exciting opportunities. The onshore

:10:15.:10:18.

oil and gas industry has important role to play in the trends to a low

:10:19.:10:21.

carbon economy. It supply chain is probably the same as that of the

:10:22.:10:26.

offshore wind industry. We have heard Mr Deputy Speaker, thd

:10:27.:10:31.

importance of setting up thd oil and gas authority and endorsing the

:10:32.:10:34.

proposal so that we can movd forward, I won't go over th`t, what

:10:35.:10:40.

I will just move on to now, and the time or many to me, to commdnt on

:10:41.:10:47.

what else the government nedds to be doing, setting the framework laid

:10:48.:10:51.

down by Sir Ian as to help the industry and support the industry at

:10:52.:10:54.

this crucial time. Mr Deputx Speaker, in the March budget last

:10:55.:10:59.

year, the government brought forth a package of physical measures to

:11:00.:11:03.

support industry and to encourage investment in exploration. @s my

:11:04.:11:07.

Honorable friend the Member for Aberdeen South had suggested and it

:11:08.:11:11.

brooded, we need to look closely at these again, with regard to the

:11:12.:11:15.

supplementary charge, in a petroleum revenue tax, we should be looking to

:11:16.:11:20.

reduce those forward or askdd to just get rid of them all together.

:11:21.:11:25.

We should also be considering giving more funding for surveys whhch are

:11:26.:11:31.

the very last line of the industry going forward. Secondly, in line

:11:32.:11:36.

with the recommendations, there is an urgent need to commence work on

:11:37.:11:41.

original plans, I want the original planned commencement started as soon

:11:42.:11:46.

as possible on the door see where it is a significant -- deserve to get

:11:47.:11:57.

out. -- reserve. It is a mature base and many respects, we are elbarking

:11:58.:12:00.

on the final chapter of walling gas, where we are dealing with what is a

:12:01.:12:05.

new venture, built on a cornerstone of cooperation, collaboration and

:12:06.:12:10.

consolidation. In the past, innovation, investing in technology,

:12:11.:12:17.

reducing cost, it has been done by the big oil companies, I wotld

:12:18.:12:21.

suggest an future we need to look at what has happened with offshore

:12:22.:12:24.

wind, with the catapult indtstry with the government leading the way.

:12:25.:12:29.

In conclusion, Mr Duffy Spe`ker we need to be getting on with ht. Time

:12:30.:12:35.

is of the essence, the advocated by Ian is the will give the jobs the

:12:36.:12:45.

answer depends on will give them the best chance of losing securhty but

:12:46.:12:52.

moreover it will give the UK or leg gas industry offshore the rdal

:12:53.:12:57.

prospect Mr Deputy Speaker, of an Indian summer. Thank you Mr Deputy

:12:58.:13:03.

Speaker, I am delighted to be caught and these most important debate not

:13:04.:13:07.

just because I've followed by many at the beaches on both sides of the

:13:08.:13:19.

house, but also because I h`ve now managed to make my holiday plans

:13:20.:13:23.

while I'm driving up the 852 has been freshly resurfaced, with some

:13:24.:13:27.

of the molds beautiful fish and chips of the country, I hopd he will

:13:28.:13:34.

join me on my holiday. I attended these conference in Paris in

:13:35.:13:39.

December, and I want to extdnd my congratulations to the Secrdtary of

:13:40.:13:42.

State for her leadership in that role during the conference, it was

:13:43.:13:49.

an excellent job she did. I want to make a few quick remarks, the clause

:13:50.:13:58.

six alongside changes made by the Department I did last year, have

:13:59.:14:03.

decision-making powers from the Secretary of State to local

:14:04.:14:07.

authorities allow him and to become the primary decision-makers for

:14:08.:14:10.

planning applications for onshore wind farms in England and W`les

:14:11.:14:19.

that was an eye manifesto. ,- our manifesto. It is something that was

:14:20.:14:26.

welcomed and supported by the vast majority of our constituents, it is

:14:27.:14:31.

an issue that those close to the heart of many people in our

:14:32.:14:37.

constituency we have spent significant amounts of and dxpansion

:14:38.:14:40.

and development in recent ydars including applications for onshore

:14:41.:14:46.

wind farms across the country. It seems to be one of the burnhng

:14:47.:14:51.

issues for people in my constituency. He gets raised time

:14:52.:14:54.

and time again that local pdople feel that their concerns ard not

:14:55.:14:57.

being heard is during the planning process. With a number people saying

:14:58.:15:01.

that no matter what they did, they felt that they're basically my

:15:02.:15:05.

forces were being ignored. There are many examples of local commtnity

:15:06.:15:09.

groups and Mike is a truancx upholding wind farm developlents

:15:10.:15:10.

including several examples of although because that lay on the

:15:11.:15:22.

green but it was thankfully protected, however in 2013.

:15:23.:15:30.

48 37 metre turbine, it was refused because it set with the gredn belt

:15:31.:15:36.

and a large number of local objections, but the decision was

:15:37.:15:41.

appealed and overturned. Ag`inst the verses express wishes of local

:15:42.:15:45.

people, to the further devolution of powers and overturned. Against the

:15:46.:15:47.

verses express wishes of local people, to the further devolution of

:15:48.:15:50.

powers in this bill, the action of the welcome addition to havd more

:15:51.:15:54.

say over our local area. I `m passionate about local people being

:15:55.:15:59.

given the right and having supported... I will give wax. Icon

:16:00.:16:05.

area where many people want wind farms and they support it, `nd the

:16:06.:16:10.

government should not take ht away and they are trying to not have it

:16:11.:16:17.

happen. I'm delighted that he will be supporting any further mdasures

:16:18.:16:20.

like this Beth will allow pdople to have more to say. People can do to

:16:21.:16:26.

come to me and said they ard frustrated by things like this. So,

:16:27.:16:34.

I have campaigned time and time again for doing the right and they

:16:35.:16:41.

can have the potential to bd taken in contrary to an existing or

:16:42.:16:44.

pending neighbourhood plan which could conflict with local

:16:45.:16:47.

development objectives of a community. It is why I'm gl`d to see

:16:48.:16:52.

clause 79 of this spill address that which will help to ensure that

:16:53.:16:56.

people of the government colmitment to devolving power and people and

:16:57.:17:00.

the planning process. I'm also reassured to hinder the progress of

:17:01.:17:07.

the bill onshore wind will be granted in areas that have suitable

:17:08.:17:12.

development in the neighbourhood plan and following a consultation of

:17:13.:17:15.

which the concerns of local committee have been addressdd. I

:17:16.:17:20.

think the Honorable member for allowing me to draw attention to my

:17:21.:17:28.

constituency, I would say those who don't want to go. And my

:17:29.:17:38.

constituency, there are prospects of about 500 turbines, the scale of

:17:39.:17:39.

what is happening is outragdous It sounds like the second h`lf of my

:17:40.:17:52.

plans have been made so thank you. I want to see the formal establishing

:17:53.:17:54.

of the oil and gas authoritx as independent regulators as a welcome

:17:55.:17:59.

step forward. But in the context of the government combating clhmate

:18:00.:18:03.

change and a cost-effective manner. As I approach, that is something

:18:04.:18:07.

that when taken alongside action in the local community. -- encouraging

:18:08.:18:16.

local... Helping to reduce carbon emissions. A scheme I have just

:18:17.:18:23.

today called on councils to support. Mr Speaker, this government supports

:18:24.:18:25.

renewable technology setting on its own two feet rather than encouraging

:18:26.:18:33.

subsidies. I wholly endorse committee powers. I will be

:18:34.:18:38.

supporting this bill soon. Thank you Mr Speaker, providing affordable and

:18:39.:18:45.

reliable and sustainable endrgy of his key commitment of this

:18:46.:18:47.

government because climate change poses a threat, not just to the

:18:48.:18:54.

environment, but also to poverty, eradication of that abroad `nd

:18:55.:18:59.

prosperity at home. The global deals secured at Paris last year goes far

:19:00.:19:03.

in tackling that threat head on I commend the Secretary of St`te for

:19:04.:19:08.

her references in securing this agreement. Energy use is in the UK

:19:09.:19:17.

fell in 2014 and yet domesthc energy bills almost doubled during that

:19:18.:19:20.

time. Driven largely by a g`s prices. Since 1990, the portion of

:19:21.:19:27.

the UK's electricity generated by renewables has increased by about

:19:28.:19:35.

19%. That is good news and encouraging for the renewable energy

:19:36.:19:41.

sector. At this point I must mention my constituency, and the role it is

:19:42.:19:46.

playing in keeping the lights on. I asked 82, and electricity

:19:47.:19:52.

interconnect or between France and UK is due be connected at chilling

:19:53.:19:58.

on the south coast. With a converter station at another site. I `sked 82

:19:59.:20:07.

will provide the capability to export or import over 1000 legawatts

:20:08.:20:12.

of power and provides three important benefits. Firstly, in

:20:13.:20:17.

relation to affordability, by giving Great Britain access to European

:20:18.:20:23.

electricity market. IF82 will help put downward pressure on wholesale

:20:24.:20:29.

energy prices. Since our wholesale energy prices are forecast to be

:20:30.:20:32.

higher than in France in many years to come, it is estimated th`t each

:20:33.:20:40.

thousand megawatt through the capacity is the potential to reduce

:20:41.:20:43.

wholesale prices here and is about 2%. Set the mic secondly,

:20:44.:20:48.

interconnection will give us access to a wide range of electrichty

:20:49.:20:53.

iteration sources, increasing our supply from elsewhere. This will

:20:54.:20:59.

only assist our energy security And lastly, in terms of sustain`bility,

:21:00.:21:03.

IF82 will help manage the f`ct that not all electricity sources can

:21:04.:21:06.

generate consistently and predictably. Electricity cannot be

:21:07.:21:13.

stored efficiently on a large scale. IF82 will help forge a lower carbon

:21:14.:21:19.

economy in Great Britain and Europe. But I am proud of what this

:21:20.:21:26.

government is committing to meet the objectives on carbon emissions. And

:21:27.:21:30.

continues to make progress toward UK's 2020 renewable energy targets.

:21:31.:21:35.

Renewable energy programme, the electricity programme, it ahms to

:21:36.:21:39.

deliver a certain percent of UK energy demand in renewables by 020.

:21:40.:21:44.

We are on course to achieve this objective. We have already cut 0%

:21:45.:21:50.

from our electricity generation and there is a strong pipeline to

:21:51.:21:55.

deliver the rest. As we de-carbonize, it is imperathve that

:21:56.:21:59.

we manage the costs to constmers. Although renewable energy costs have

:22:00.:22:04.

been coming down, subsidies still form part of people's energx bills

:22:05.:22:09.

and as a share of renewables grow, so do the impact of... Mr Speaker,

:22:10.:22:19.

that is one of this governmdnt's priorities to bring about transition

:22:20.:22:23.

to carbon generation as cost effectively and securely as possible

:22:24.:22:28.

reflects its approach to fahrness and sustainability. The levde

:22:29.:22:32.

control framework covering ` period of up to 2020 or 2021 is ond of the

:22:33.:22:39.

tools which will help achieve this. It limits the impact of support for

:22:40.:22:44.

low carbon electricity on consumer bills. We have a responsibility to

:22:45.:22:52.

efficiently manage support schemes within the levee control fr`mework

:22:53.:22:56.

to ensure we maintain public support for the action we are taking to

:22:57.:22:59.

bring down carbon emissions and combat climate change. Government

:23:00.:23:05.

support is designed to help technology stand on its own two

:23:06.:23:09.

feet, not to encourage dependency on subsidy. We therefore need to take

:23:10.:23:15.

tough decisions on which projects to subsidize. Onshore wind has been

:23:16.:23:21.

deployed successfully to date and is an important part of the endrgy mix.

:23:22.:23:29.

In 2014, onshore wind made tp 5 of electricity generation, supported by

:23:30.:23:36.

?8 million worth of subsidy. And in April 2015, there were 490

:23:37.:23:41.

operational onshore wind farms in the UK, comprising 4751 turbines in

:23:42.:23:49.

total. These wind farms havd a stored capacity of a .3 gig`watts,

:23:50.:23:57.

enough to power 4.5 million homes. It's projected that we will require

:23:58.:24:02.

between 11-13 gigawatts of electricity to be provided by

:24:03.:24:06.

onshore wind by 2020 to meet our objectives. We have enough wind in

:24:07.:24:12.

the pipeline, including projects that have other things to mdet this

:24:13.:24:18.

requirement comfortably. Thhs is the right approach. We could end up with

:24:19.:24:25.

more onshore wind than we c`n afford, leading ultimately to a

:24:26.:24:30.

higher bills for consumers, or other renewable technologies such as

:24:31.:24:33.

offshore wind losing out on support. The government needs to now refocus

:24:34.:24:41.

its investment on less short technologies and it is for that

:24:42.:24:46.

reason that I am proud that we are acting on our manifesto comlitment

:24:47.:24:55.

and it has my full support. We have had a wide range of debate this

:24:56.:25:02.

evening. On this bill, and on why debate and in some senses as I

:25:03.:25:06.

forget that there was a build in front of us, but I was pleased to

:25:07.:25:16.

hear from honourable members and they kept us on track with the bill

:25:17.:25:19.

which I plan to talk about hn my closing remarks. And indeed, talk

:25:20.:25:26.

about what those members who did adjust the bill had to say on the

:25:27.:25:31.

matter. My honourable friend spoke of the original bill in another

:25:32.:25:39.

place being improved by comlitments in another place, I think hd is

:25:40.:25:43.

exactly right. And indeed, ly honourable friend not only dispelled

:25:44.:25:50.

some of the inaccuracies of some of the renewal contributors but also

:25:51.:25:57.

write about missing parts of this bill. As is my honourable friend the

:25:58.:26:02.

Member for Wakefield reminddd us in the light of our move in thd

:26:03.:26:11.

ambition that we need to have as far as our concerns and fuel poverty

:26:12.:26:19.

efficiency... The honourabld member from Pavilion appeared to stggest

:26:20.:26:28.

that the best idea we could take out of this house this evening was to

:26:29.:26:32.

close down the North Sea. This is not something I have to say that I

:26:33.:26:40.

buy into. Since we know that and oil will be with us some time, reducing

:26:41.:26:48.

it into more concentrated areas it is better that it is sourced from a

:26:49.:26:52.

secure source in the North Sea rather than across the world. The

:26:53.:26:57.

North Sea is a great sustainer of jobs for the UK, as we have heard

:26:58.:27:01.

from many honourable members and it is right that we look to get the

:27:02.:27:06.

best out of it for that job industry and security of the UK. It hs not an

:27:07.:27:14.

either or that we pay attention to the climate change commitments we

:27:15.:27:16.

have made and will be strengthening those commitments as part of the

:27:17.:27:21.

school. The creation of the OGA to get the best outcomes for the next

:27:22.:27:25.

bases in the North Sea development is something we support and we fully

:27:26.:27:30.

support its creation as a freestanding body with powers to

:27:31.:27:33.

develop and co-ordinate in the industry. The North Sea, as others

:27:34.:27:39.

state, immature source. We inevitably strained to...

:27:40.:27:45.

Authorities estimate that the North Sea is up to 80% already exploited.

:27:46.:27:53.

Future fields will be small, deep and difficult to exploit amber

:27:54.:27:56.

require support from existing at the structure to ensure the redtction is

:27:57.:28:03.

fiscally responsible. It will be underpinned by cooperation `nd

:28:04.:28:08.

sharing of the resources and one of the OGA's Ziggler tasks is to ensure

:28:09.:28:14.

that this works effectively. -- underlined by the honourabld member

:28:15.:28:19.

for Richmond Yorkshire who puoted in his contribution, the offichal about

:28:20.:28:25.

the importance of job securhty in his region. There must be concerns

:28:26.:28:32.

about current responses to the low price of oil and their effect on

:28:33.:28:36.

longer-term considerations `bout future development in the North Sea.

:28:37.:28:41.

BP has announced further job losses in the North Sea and MA imp`ct on

:28:42.:28:44.

maintenance work, safety opdration, readiness and exploration, that

:28:45.:28:53.

reminds us of the short-terl nature that the OGA can tackle. We need to

:28:54.:28:58.

see through in these consultations that the OGA has suitable powers to

:28:59.:29:07.

sustain offshore things and cost reduction are about efficiency and

:29:08.:29:09.

not just code words for strhpping back safety and cuts to paylent

:29:10.:29:16.

conditions. It is right also in thinking about the future of the

:29:17.:29:19.

North Sea that we take care to ensure that what is there in the

:29:20.:29:22.

form of infrastructure, both instructors and skills is used to

:29:23.:29:26.

its advantage. That is not ` theoretical point about futtre

:29:27.:29:29.

expiration, it is a practic`l point about realities. There are,

:29:30.:29:38.

according to studies, 300 fhelds not explored further. Some dating back

:29:39.:29:43.

ten years or so. Not only is the low oil price currently, but also the

:29:44.:29:46.

difficulty in infrastructurd of these fields below 50 million or

:29:47.:29:51.

equivalents, they are likelx to sustain by themselves. The OGA has

:29:52.:29:57.

some powers in this bill to ensure decommissioning a thought about and

:29:58.:30:00.

the platforms and pipelines are not just taken away and disposed of in a

:30:01.:30:05.

rest development that some light say is a new industry in the North Sea

:30:06.:30:09.

as important as that is. Th`t thought carries over to what could

:30:10.:30:12.

be an important feature for the North Sea, as another member

:30:13.:30:17.

sequester as part of the Carbon capture and storage process. Not

:30:18.:30:23.

just for the UK, the capacity and extent of potentially avail`ble

:30:24.:30:25.

deposits means that the North Sea could be your's deposit thrde of

:30:26.:30:34.

choice in the future. An eldgant underpinning of the need for carbon

:30:35.:30:37.

capture strategy particularly with that point and mine came from my

:30:38.:30:45.

honourable friend. The government very unwisely scrappy UK's plans to

:30:46.:30:51.

get ahead of the world and CCS does not mean that CCS will not, or as

:30:52.:30:56.

needed any less in the future of energy production. It just leans

:30:57.:31:00.

that we will be buying someone else's technology at a greater cost,

:31:01.:31:04.

but the least we can do now is to ensure the storage into the process

:31:05.:31:07.

is secured in one of the best places in the world to undertake that

:31:08.:31:12.

activity. It will develop jobs, supply chains, and can conthnue that

:31:13.:31:17.

field. And possibly even at some stages securing crossover bdtween

:31:18.:31:22.

what is happening with oil recovery and would storage of CO2. I do not

:31:23.:31:29.

agree with the honourable mdmber from Aberdeen South who said that

:31:30.:31:33.

the two issues, though conndcted, should be pursued with separately.

:31:34.:31:36.

They are completely connectdd in terms of how the North Sea will work

:31:37.:31:40.

now and the future and it is important that we take careful note

:31:41.:31:44.

of what CCS has to offer for the North Sea in longer-term for sock we

:31:45.:31:53.

will be --. We will ensure the government has a full stratdgy for

:31:54.:31:57.

the future of CCS both in the North Sea and across the country. We will

:31:58.:32:02.

in deed not be dividing the House tonight because some of the work

:32:03.:32:07.

tonight to proceed this bill has Artie been done. We will be seeking

:32:08.:32:12.

committee to retain those improvements, particularly hn that

:32:13.:32:15.

section of the bill that de`ls with renewables and local energy, with

:32:16.:32:21.

the government's intention not with us as the bill goes to commhttee and

:32:22.:32:26.

closing the bill early for offshore wind. I am reminded of a strong

:32:27.:32:32.

contribution from my honour`ble friend of just how wrong-he`ded the

:32:33.:32:39.

decision that seems to be. H am afraid that the agenda we h`ve seen

:32:40.:32:45.

over the past few months of downgrading options for rendwables

:32:46.:32:50.

in order to pursue renewablds overall is at the heart of this

:32:51.:32:56.

issue. It should not be a contradiction between supporting the

:32:57.:32:59.

continuing secure supply of gas and oil that we need for the re`sonable

:33:00.:33:04.

future and the development of her noble energy as a key component of

:33:05.:33:12.

the UK's energy mix. I am also reminded that the honourabld members

:33:13.:33:21.

for hard snare -- have talkdd about subsidies for new bulls and should

:33:22.:33:25.

be reminded that effectivelx all that energy is subsidized in one way

:33:26.:33:29.

or another. We have just colpleted an exercise that subsidizes gas

:33:30.:33:36.

coal, and nuclear, to the ttne of ?940 million in one year just to be

:33:37.:33:43.

there, not to produce anythhng. That will be against the figures that we

:33:44.:33:46.

have heard today for subsidx renewables and that puts it into

:33:47.:33:50.

context. We will seek to defend the present status of the bill without

:33:51.:33:54.

early closure of the bill as a goes through committee and we should

:33:55.:33:58.

remind ourselves that this hs an existing subsidy that we ard talking

:33:59.:34:02.

about and not a new subsidy. We will see later by greater claritx through

:34:03.:34:09.

you bring's future term of dnergy and my out has said very cldarly...

:34:10.:34:17.

I am afraid I do not have thme to take interventions this evening In

:34:18.:34:23.

terms of the long-term targdts that the government has, it has `lready

:34:24.:34:30.

indicated that he wants to go further and will indeed attdmpt to

:34:31.:34:36.

pursue amendments to the bill and to underpinned that long-term target in

:34:37.:34:42.

the future. I did detect sole considerable support from that

:34:43.:34:49.

position for the honourable member. There is an opportunity to forge

:34:50.:34:58.

throughout the House a key piece of legislation which will provhde

:34:59.:35:05.

security in a clear way ahe`d for energy investors, operators, and

:35:06.:35:08.

bring's energy workforce and my honourable friend from various

:35:09.:35:15.

constituencies both remind ts of the need for coherence and long,term

:35:16.:35:18.

planning and stability in energy policy. We all know that thd clear

:35:19.:35:27.

way ahead will be necessary for health and prosperity of future

:35:28.:35:31.

energy activities for Britahn. And for clarity on feature direction of

:35:32.:35:36.

our country toward a low carbon economy. Let us hope that the

:35:37.:35:42.

government, in taking this bill through committee, looks at the way

:35:43.:35:48.

this can be a joint opportunity with compromise and discussion on both

:35:49.:35:52.

sides to forge that vision `nd make it a reality. If you will come out

:35:53.:35:59.

of committee stage with a bhll that truly represents the interests

:36:00.:36:04.

across all of the House and takes us forward to a low carbon economy

:36:05.:36:11.

which takes account of our oil and gas in a proper way in the context

:36:12.:36:16.

of that wider ambition. With the Minister of state... Thank xou Mr

:36:17.:36:23.

Speaker, it is a great pleasure to conclude today's debate which has

:36:24.:36:27.

had a wide range of contribttions to which I will try to do justhce on

:36:28.:36:31.

subjects ranging from oil and gas and wind to carbon budgets `nd

:36:32.:36:36.

climate change. It has been fascinating. First of all I would

:36:37.:36:41.

like to reflect that the right honourable lady opposite and her

:36:42.:36:46.

honourable friend have welcomed this work to create the oil and gas

:36:47.:36:50.

Authority and I am glad that they do. I have a great deal of respect

:36:51.:36:55.

in particular for the right honourable lady who does take a

:36:56.:36:58.

commercial approach to this and I am glad to see that the opposition

:36:59.:37:04.

bench are keen to see progrdss in supporting the oil and gas

:37:05.:37:08.

authority. I just want to point out to all honourable members opposite

:37:09.:37:11.

that carbon capture and storage is part of the OGA's mandate. Ht covers

:37:12.:37:19.

of site licenses, approves carbon dioxide storage applications and

:37:20.:37:26.

approves the term edge -- in addition, whether percentagds

:37:27.:37:29.

between oil and gas and CCS industries, we expect these to be

:37:30.:37:34.

exploited. For example, the OGA is considering the CCS and the

:37:35.:37:38.

technology decommissioning strategies that they are developing.

:37:39.:37:41.

I hope that gives all honourable members opposite some comfort. With

:37:42.:37:48.

the continuing job losses and increasing gloomy feeling in

:37:49.:37:52.

Aberdeen, freedom be welcomhng the shift in rhetoric from the

:37:53.:37:54.

government benches as a whole, with the Minister reassure me th`t the

:37:55.:37:59.

government will do as much `s possible to support Aberdeen and be

:38:00.:38:04.

as productive as possible for as long as possible? I can asstre her

:38:05.:38:10.

that is exactly what this energy bill is all about. I will come onto

:38:11.:38:14.

the comments made by her honourable friend but I would just likd to

:38:15.:38:18.

finish off saying to the opposition bench that this closure on the

:38:19.:38:27.

onshore wind subsidy is a vdry clear conservative manifesto commhtment.

:38:28.:38:40.

No ifs and buts about it. I can tell her the Minister of State for energy

:38:41.:38:45.

told the House of Commons on the 6th of March in 2015, and I quote, we

:38:46.:38:50.

have made it absolutely cle`r that we will remove onshore wind

:38:51.:38:54.

subsidies in the future and that the current 10% that is in the pipeline

:38:55.:39:00.

for onshore wind is plenty will stop this is a clear manifesto

:39:01.:39:08.

commitment. Turning now to the Scottish Nationalist party, the

:39:09.:39:11.

member from Aberdeen South `nd his honourable friend, I am glad that

:39:12.:39:16.

they are also supporters of establishing the oil and gas

:39:17.:39:19.

authority and I know that they want to see as I do and indeed the

:39:20.:39:23.

honourable lady who just intervened a thriving industry for homd-grown

:39:24.:39:29.

oil and gas that supports the 375,000 jobs that we are looking to

:39:30.:39:36.

sustain and that we will continue to do everything we can to support

:39:37.:39:41.

that. With their help we hope to be able to count on that, they have

:39:42.:39:46.

raised the issue of subsidids and I can assure them that my dep`rtment

:39:47.:39:51.

is looking very closely at that The government is totally focusdd on

:39:52.:39:56.

seeing through a long-term plan or secure, clean, and affordable energy

:39:57.:40:00.

supplies for generations to come. As we set out in our manifesto, we will

:40:01.:40:05.

cut omissions as cost-effectively as possible while upgrading and

:40:06.:40:09.

expanding both baseload and intermittent sources of energy

:40:10.:40:14.

generation. That means ensuring weekend continue to support

:40:15.:40:18.

investment in UK energy sources including supporting the North Sea.

:40:19.:40:22.

It also means continuing to support the deployment of new renew`bles. We

:40:23.:40:27.

have to achieve this in the most cost-effective way. We have to get

:40:28.:40:31.

the right balance between stpporting new technologies, but then `s Kos

:40:32.:40:38.

come down, beat-up on subsidies to keep bills as low as possible. As we

:40:39.:40:45.

progressively de-carbonized our economy, as so many honourable

:40:46.:40:49.

members have pointed out, wd will continue to need oil and gas for

:40:50.:40:53.

many decades to come and it is far better that the jobs and revenue are

:40:54.:40:58.

in the UK, reducing where possible Howard dependence on imports. The

:40:59.:41:04.

energy bill is intended to `nd act our manifesto commitment in two key

:41:05.:41:09.

ways. First by continuing to support the development of North Se` oil and

:41:10.:41:13.

gas by establishing the OGA as an independent regulator and steward. A

:41:14.:41:17.

number of members has spoken very clearly on this area, my right

:41:18.:41:28.

honourable member for brand,... All of them spoke very knowledgdably

:41:29.:41:35.

about the vital importance of doing everything we can to sustain the

:41:36.:41:39.

North Sea. Not just for now but for the long-term future as well. And to

:41:40.:41:41.

recognise that we must cut the cost They fail to recognise that actually

:41:42.:44:45.

poverty and MS renewables stbsidies go hand-in-hand and I do thhnk that

:44:46.:44:49.

members opposite need to recognise that. Will my Honorable fridnd give

:44:50.:44:56.

way at? Briefly. The Honorable Lady opposite asked where to start, where

:44:57.:45:00.

to start is by getting rid of the most obnoxious of current ftels

:45:01.:45:05.

does she agree with me that if other governments follow the example of

:45:06.:45:08.

this government and got rid of coal, replaced by gas and other

:45:09.:45:11.

technologies developed, those afterward it would make a bhgger

:45:12.:45:14.

contribution than almost anxthing else? Of course he is absolttely

:45:15.:45:18.

right, we are in fact the fhrst of all of the country to talk `bout

:45:19.:45:23.

getting rid of coal and movhng to gas, that'll be the best thhng we

:45:24.:45:26.

can do for decomposition in the near term. My Honorable friend the member

:45:27.:45:34.

spoke strongly for the drivdr can when Jesus died on the location for

:45:35.:45:36.

wind farms, farms, I've lied to pay real personal tribute for the member

:45:37.:45:44.

who has done so much and thts have a big impact for our manifesto

:45:45.:45:50.

commitment on onshore winds. The members for heart smear and gate, I

:45:51.:45:55.

was so glad to hear them pohnt out, the plight for the bill plaxer of

:45:56.:46:00.

the Oroville city, and that this is in fact a very clear manifesto

:46:01.:46:02.

commitment to get costs down. The right honourable gentlelan, the

:46:03.:46:12.

Member for Doncaster North, as old a great deal of gratitude for his

:46:13.:46:17.

personal work and commitment to the climate change agenda, his proposal

:46:18.:46:22.

that we should now look at 40 carbon and mission strategy with a climate

:46:23.:46:27.

chance to meet to decide on the date, as things stand we ard very

:46:28.:46:32.

committed to meeting our legally binding commitments for 2014 and

:46:33.:46:36.

that is where our focus lies. I m sorry to disappoint him for that. To

:46:37.:46:41.

the Honorable members who criticise his government for not being green,

:46:42.:46:46.

I can tell them since 2010, we have reduced the UK greenhouse elissions

:46:47.:46:52.

by 15%, the biggest reduction in a single parliament, we are over

:46:53.:46:57.

delivering against our first three carbon budgets, the UK's second best

:46:58.:47:00.

country in the world for tackling climate change, according to climate

:47:01.:47:05.

action network, second only to the market, this government has done so

:47:06.:47:10.

much, and my Honorable friend the Member for North Dorset, and fast,

:47:11.:47:14.

both point out that the opposition you quake don't equate subshdies

:47:15.:47:22.

with fuel poverty, and they need to do that, they need to understand the

:47:23.:47:26.

more we subsidize, the more technologies we add to fuel poverty.

:47:27.:47:31.

In finishing, I like to pitch a view to my Honorable friend for Ferran,

:47:32.:47:35.

who gave a knowledgeable and supportive speech on the importance

:47:36.:47:41.

of supporting both the AGA `nd our manifesto commitments. Mr Speaker,

:47:42.:47:45.

I'm grateful to all Honorable members and I commend this bill to

:47:46.:47:50.

the house. The question is that the bill not be read a second thme, as

:47:51.:47:56.

many as of the opinion say @yes on the contrary is noes. I think the

:47:57.:48:09.

Ayes has it, the Ayes have ht. Programme match motion to bd moved

:48:10.:48:16.

formally, the question is that on the older paper. As many as of the

:48:17.:48:20.

opinions they Ayes, of the contrary stated noes. I think the Ayds have

:48:21.:48:25.

it. The Ayes have it. The rdsolution to be moved forward, the qudstion is

:48:26.:48:29.

as on the order paper, as m`ny as of the opinions they Ayes. On the

:48:30.:48:33.

contrary as a noes. The Ayes have it, the Ayes have it. The qtestion

:48:34.:48:39.

is as on the order paper, as many as of the opinions they Ayes, that on

:48:40.:48:52.

the contrary they noes. I think the Ayes have it, the Ayes have it.

:48:53.:48:54.

Order! We come now to the motion number five. On betting aimhng and

:48:55.:49:00.

lotteries. Beg to move? As lany as of the business they Ayes on the

:49:01.:49:07.

Contras and noes, the Ayes have it. The whip to move. The questhon is as

:49:08.:49:14.

on the order paper, as many as of the opinions they Ayes, on the

:49:15.:49:19.

contrary noes. The Ayes havd it We come now to the adjournment, the

:49:20.:49:25.

whip to move, the question hs now that these house do adjourn. Thank

:49:26.:49:35.

you Mr Speaker for the housd to consider the edge ordinary collapse

:49:36.:49:40.

after just eight months of one of the biggest exercises conducted in

:49:41.:49:43.

the national health service. The ?800 million contract betwedn the

:49:44.:49:49.

United care partnership and the clinical commission group. Two weeks

:49:50.:49:54.

ago, I spent the morning out with an able screw, working from thd England

:49:55.:50:00.

station on the station outshde Cambridge. I saw the image has at

:50:01.:50:04.

its best. Top quality care providing quickly, people in pain and is

:50:05.:50:09.

discomfort treated with respect and a swift seamless transfer into the

:50:10.:50:13.

hospital. And fantastic comlitted staff. Our NHS at its best, we

:50:14.:50:23.

should be proud of it. When health leaders said that they wantdd to

:50:24.:50:25.

correct an integrated services for older people which will focts on

:50:26.:50:30.

prevention, and with a worthy aim, be polluted, by the need for

:50:31.:50:37.

competitive tender. When thd concert was finally signed, with NHS

:50:38.:50:41.

providers, it should have bden the start of a new way to provide care.

:50:42.:50:47.

So what went wrong, that is what I want to quiz the restaurant tonight.

:50:48.:50:51.

The fire for this contract latters way beyond Cambridgeshire. Ht is

:50:52.:50:56.

quite rightly attracting national attention, let me quote a rdcent

:50:57.:51:00.

editorial for the health service Journal, they said, when a five year

:51:01.:51:04.

contract decides it is important, to some of the most vulnerable people

:51:05.:51:08.

in society fails, it is not enough to shrug and walk away. Esthmation

:51:09.:51:17.

is developed it is important to understand, and explain what has

:51:18.:51:20.

gone wrong and Cambridge ard. The lessons could benefit and the health

:51:21.:51:27.

service as a whole. They ard right. This is a long and complicated story

:51:28.:51:31.

I'm afraid. Some of us have followed this closely for many years, you

:51:32.:51:35.

will be glad to know that I get you in a printed account, I must first

:51:36.:51:38.

pay tribute to some of the campaign is that many many months with menus

:51:39.:51:43.

across temperature questionhng and challenging. My friend and

:51:44.:51:52.

colleague, and many others. We always knew something was not right.

:51:53.:51:58.

Sadly it approved to be correct I believe the story actually begins

:51:59.:52:02.

back in 2012, when the future of Cambridge community trust which had

:52:03.:52:07.

itself only a few years be separated by the predecessor under government

:52:08.:52:21.

guidance trust that work fotndation trust had been ground up. It was a

:52:22.:52:25.

foolish policy and not so often they rescinded. Given it with thd same

:52:26.:52:31.

time as the infamous 2012 act, that was under discussion, if pr`ised the

:52:32.:52:37.

real possibility that many had been transferred for private providers.

:52:38.:52:41.

That did not happen. The Cotnty Council, that many staff had

:52:42.:52:45.

announced them for to many of them back. The consequence was a

:52:46.:52:50.

disintegration of services, the very opposite of what was needed,

:52:51.:52:54.

integrated teams and act of vandalism which set the card back.

:52:55.:52:59.

The TDA, the body overseeing this early stage Department, werd maybe

:53:00.:53:04.

blind of accountability for trust, this of course has now been merged

:53:05.:53:12.

to monitor. Another executive departmental body of the Department

:53:13.:53:19.

of Health. It is worth noticing since it was denied, causing the

:53:20.:53:26.

disintegration of the care. It is the best community trust to work for

:53:27.:53:35.

and it is now doing very well. So, against this backdrop, and because

:53:36.:53:39.

of the 2012 health and soci`l care act, they can to Parliament by the

:53:40.:53:42.

then local MP for South Cambridgeshire and Secretarx of

:53:43.:53:47.

State for Health, in 2013 the Cambridgeshire MP wanted to move

:53:48.:53:52.

from a new model was forced to put health services for older pdople out

:53:53.:53:58.

to tender, the process attr`cted national attention was for `

:53:59.:54:05.

controversial locally. Shouted and commercial confidentiality, rumours

:54:06.:54:08.

about this, many organizations express interest. Over many months,

:54:09.:54:19.

the campaigners that the melbers board meetings where we werd sure

:54:20.:54:27.

that all was well. And the lany concerns that

:54:28.:54:38.

eventually, in October of 2014, he was further announced that this idea

:54:39.:54:45.

outsourcing contract to one older people held there an adult community

:54:46.:54:49.

care what was to be awarded to the partnership. Not a private bidder,

:54:50.:54:54.

but rather an NHS consortiul of Cambridgeshire and others. The

:54:55.:55:04.

five-year contract was worth ?1 0 million and covered urging care for

:55:05.:55:09.

adults age 65 and older including patients and services. Ment`l health

:55:10.:55:13.

services in the age 65 and over but no committee services for pdople

:55:14.:55:18.

aged 18 and over including district nurses and rehabilitation sdrvices,

:55:19.:55:21.

and health services to support the care of people aged 65 and over As

:55:22.:55:26.

one of the biggest context the NHS has ever attended. The partnership

:55:27.:55:32.

started delivering services in April of last updates outlining how the

:55:33.:55:39.

services of work. We now know that behind the scenes cause for going on

:55:40.:55:44.

but it was withheld from public gaze, after just eight months, and

:55:45.:55:49.

one month of the new system operating fully, the joint statement

:55:50.:55:52.

was issued by Cambridge and people from the CG, not musty telldrs given

:55:53.:55:59.

of an assurance that servicds were to continue to have a patient should

:56:00.:56:02.

be real sure, but also the provider and the commissioner had agreed that

:56:03.:56:07.

the current arrangement was no longer financially sustainable. The

:56:08.:56:11.

contract have been established and have been honoured by the CG and

:56:12.:56:14.

patients and carers were promised the services would go on as usual

:56:15.:56:23.

and would not be disrupted. Let s briefly review some of the damage.

:56:24.:56:25.

The cost of all this, it was certainly millions, doubtless

:56:26.:56:43.

to be recouped somewhere else. The impact on staff, back when

:56:44.:56:46.

Cambridgeshire committee services felt in his bid for foundathon, a

:56:47.:56:49.

transition steering group w`s established to oversee the future.

:56:50.:56:58.

This mid-teens were apart and with a new contract over 2000 staff

:56:59.:57:04.

transferred, the foundation trust and the County Council. That was a

:57:05.:57:08.

massive task, for the committee services trust, distracting them

:57:09.:57:11.

from other work, with use uncertainty and stress over the

:57:12.:57:17.

future of the job, throughott the entire process across the NHS, then

:57:18.:57:23.

your managers and local health service leaders, were spendhng large

:57:24.:57:26.

amounts of time on all of this and preoccupied by it. Wasn't rdally

:57:27.:57:30.

time well spent, but last ydar we saw a major hospitals repeating the

:57:31.:57:39.

crisis. -- was it. What was their role? Many would ask who ard they.

:57:40.:57:42.

To many who follow these thhngs I would say that they are effdctively

:57:43.:57:47.

the privatsation of England. They played a key role throughout this

:57:48.:57:52.

process. Go to their websitd and it tells you that they specialhse a

:57:53.:57:56.

competitive procurement and redesigning patient pathways for

:57:57.:57:58.

integrated care model and change management and reservist

:57:59.:58:04.

reconfiguration, trust development and culture change. They ard a part

:58:05.:58:13.

of me NHS England. NHS Engl`nd will have an investigation into the class

:58:14.:58:17.

of the contract and examine their role and will also consider how

:58:18.:58:21.

similar contract will be managed and ensure the future. And Engl`nd, will

:58:22.:58:26.

investigate its own special project team, a hopeless conflict of

:58:27.:58:30.

interest, that is not good dnough. We need a genuinely independent and

:58:31.:58:37.

transparent review. People `re right to ask questions about the special

:58:38.:58:40.

budget team. Their list of interventions reflect a roll call of

:58:41.:58:46.

recent NHS disaster. Not thhs but the private hospital saga and be

:58:47.:58:50.

tendering process of the George Elliot Hospital. Their webshte leave

:58:51.:58:57.

someone in no doubt about their leading role in the Cambridgeshire

:58:58.:59:03.

process. They say that and H quote, SBT delivered an open procurement

:59:04.:59:12.

process on behalf of the CVG. They delivered. On October the 8th 2 14,

:59:13.:59:17.

when United care was announced and preferred bidder, SBT was again

:59:18.:59:21.

trumpeting their key role. On November 12, when it was announced

:59:22.:59:29.

that the company, SBT was there again. It is worth quoting from the

:59:30.:59:31.

presently still on the webshte to get a sense of just how sinful they

:59:32.:59:36.

were to all of this, I quotd, the managing director of the shd should

:59:37.:59:40.

project team who manage the procurement on behalf of thd CVG

:59:41.:59:44.

said the city to project te`m are once again proud to support its

:59:45.:59:49.

courageous leadership and the NHS. They may call a courageous, others

:59:50.:59:55.

make describe it differentlx. But be clear, it was the SBT, very much

:59:56.:00:00.

part of the NHS England and has been calling the shots. On the ddcision

:00:01.:00:04.

to set up the daycare, it's a limited liability company, ht was

:00:05.:00:07.

approved by monitor and a special project team and NHS England at the

:00:08.:00:15.

time. Yet all knew that thex would be no room for flexibility number

:00:16.:00:19.

for losses in year one or two with the model explicity. It is hard to

:00:20.:00:30.

see how it could have ever worked. I did monitor the special project

:00:31.:00:34.

teams and NHS England give the go-ahead, did none of them spot the

:00:35.:00:38.

potential problems introducdd by limited liability polishing. Having

:00:39.:00:45.

given that a brief outline, we now come to the further questions that I

:00:46.:00:48.

hope the Minister would be `ble to help us with. First on the flurry of

:00:49.:00:51.

investigations being announced. While it is right that all of us

:00:52.:00:58.

want to look at their role, there is not a duplication but also the

:00:59.:01:03.

fragmentation that has causdd problems already. Given the conflict

:01:04.:01:11.

of interest and NHS England that I subscribe, there should be ` review

:01:12.:01:16.

carried out. The minister should surely be able to tell us about the

:01:17.:01:21.

role played by his department and by ministers, two key moments hn

:01:22.:01:25.

particular. When it was cle`r and October and November of 2014, there

:01:26.:01:30.

was insufficient evidence on cost to agree to a final contract. Why was

:01:31.:01:33.

the prize is not delayed until that have been sorted out? The mhnister

:01:34.:01:41.

ministers know or was impressed to achieve implication? Weeks `head of

:01:42.:01:47.

managers play in the composhtion to managers play in the composhtion to

:01:48.:01:52.

in the contract in December 201 , there were clearly discussions going

:01:53.:01:59.

on. About how much does he do to keep the country running. It seems

:02:00.:02:03.

to be about ?2 million, a lot of money, given that killing the

:02:04.:02:08.

contract may well have cost more, certainly worth considering. Well

:02:09.:02:10.

with the Missouri involvement at that point. Where ministers

:02:11.:02:14.

convulsed the? Who made the decision to let the contract collapsd? To

:02:15.:02:21.

conclude, looking forward which is what matters most, patients have

:02:22.:02:24.

been assured that services will be maintained. That may be trud, but

:02:25.:02:32.

what next? Will the outcome be pursued, will the care be t`ken out

:02:33.:02:38.

of the question of the equation or did the Mac doesn't CVG havd the

:02:39.:02:42.

capacity and if it does why do because the tendering process? This

:02:43.:02:47.

has been a sorry saga, it sdems that everybody agrees that our NHS and

:02:48.:02:51.

care services need to be integrated, gears of fragmentation make it

:02:52.:02:56.

extremely hard to achieve, this was a well-intentioned attempt to deal

:02:57.:02:59.

with the perverse incentives that shackle our health and care

:03:00.:03:03.

services, we need to find ott what went wrong. We have dedicatdd

:03:04.:03:06.

hard-working staff who want to provide the best care possible to

:03:07.:03:11.

our citizens, we need to find a way of making it possible for them to do

:03:12.:03:16.

that. And my view it means him into contractual as market models, and a

:03:17.:03:21.

interview public system and NHS solution based not on competition,

:03:22.:03:26.

but on collaboration and NHS solution, which patients desperately

:03:27.:03:30.

need, and which staff I'm stre which year. Thank you Mr Speaker. Could I

:03:31.:03:41.

first of all congratulate the Honorable member for securing this

:03:42.:03:49.

debate, and think of members of the house for attending, I know he has

:03:50.:03:53.

an interest in this issue. @nd page it good to those working in the

:03:54.:03:58.

front line of the NHS, parthcularly the time of year where the health

:03:59.:04:01.

services under its greatest pressure. As the Honorable lember

:04:02.:04:06.

has described, the contract between Cambridgeshire and the commhssion

:04:07.:04:14.

group has been terminated. Right away, NHS England is investhgating

:04:15.:04:23.

that, the terms of referencd are to establish from a commission

:04:24.:04:30.

perspective the key facts and proud causes -- root causes. The CVG is

:04:31.:04:38.

undertaking a review as it hs right and proper. We should let as a

:04:39.:04:41.

complete that process and I hope that nothing as they can be taken as

:04:42.:04:45.

an assumption that ministers have prejudge the outcome of that process

:04:46.:04:50.

in any way. Believe there are different views about what has

:04:51.:04:52.

happened and I will wait for the report of those of those reviews

:04:53.:04:54.

before deciding what if anything needs to be done even by thd NHS or

:04:55.:05:01.

by government. What the reports are published ministers will be briefed

:05:02.:05:03.

on their conclusions and I'l happy to invite the Honorable member to

:05:04.:05:08.

that meeting. I don't know what it will take place. I know the

:05:09.:05:12.

Honorable member is in regular contact with his NHS but I would

:05:13.:05:16.

encourage him to keep it up. The scope of services and the contract

:05:17.:05:20.

with United care, was acute and unplanned hospital care for older

:05:21.:05:26.

people over 65, the mental health services and adult communitx

:05:27.:05:29.

services, and a range of supporting involuntary services, the underlying

:05:30.:05:34.

principle was to create an integrated care pathway between all

:05:35.:05:39.

of these services, and the Ledicare service model was designed by local

:05:40.:05:44.

commissions, during the procurement process that had a high degree of

:05:45.:05:52.

local health and support. It was ratified by two independent

:05:53.:05:58.

audiences, it was designed for server segmentation to focus on

:05:59.:06:01.

better outcomes for patients and care as well as activity levels In

:06:02.:06:13.

order to address the needs of a rapidly ageing Corporation. By

:06:14.:06:25.

reducing appropriate image to. United care began introducing those

:06:26.:06:29.

new services with investment to ?5.4 million over the first six lonths of

:06:30.:06:33.

the financial year, these h`ve included a number of import`nt local

:06:34.:06:37.

improvements, care Bastareatd neighbourhood, 70 neighbourhood

:06:38.:06:42.

teams working closely with GP's and neighbourhood teams with thd support

:06:43.:06:47.

of four integrated care teals to offer more specialist care, and so

:06:48.:06:52.

does 20 47 helpline, urging care and support the joint emergency teams to

:06:53.:06:57.

assess people with risk to ` mission hospital, health and well-bding

:06:58.:07:01.

voluntary organizations and patient record, one view away from the

:07:02.:07:09.

health organisation, and he`lth analytics service to target

:07:10.:07:11.

interventions for those most at risk. To achieve these, a contract

:07:12.:07:16.

with the imp for the providdr and a few CG base around the key

:07:17.:07:20.

components, new framework for improving outcomes and a new

:07:21.:07:23.

contract approach to align incentives in a better arrax, a

:07:24.:07:27.

five-year contract term, and a newly provider. For those reasons, this is

:07:28.:07:31.

the crash of the Magne with a high-value contract, it was ?10

:07:32.:07:37.

million having taken legal `dvice, the CTG when to open procurdment,

:07:38.:07:44.

using a standard three stagd process to submit outline solutions, and an

:07:45.:07:51.

invitation to submit final solutions. This included submitting

:07:52.:08:01.

bids within the CVG budget `nd is easy to budget Incorporated

:08:02.:08:04.

population growth, and security factor and quick savings for each

:08:05.:08:08.

year. I know that there was some concern in some quarters, and to the

:08:09.:08:13.

other four teams in the process was as the Honorable member opposite is

:08:14.:08:19.

referred to as a stealth prhvatizes, clearly I don't think anybody on any

:08:20.:08:23.

objective criteria are greater that was the case, it was a servhce

:08:24.:08:29.

reconfiguration plays as he said, not-for-profit, it was that I'll buy

:08:30.:08:33.

that purpose by local health providers. The boys of the hospitals

:08:34.:08:38.

and the foundation trust held the firm belief that only by introducing

:08:39.:08:43.

radical change, led by the NHS would the local health economy under the

:08:44.:08:49.

CVG become viable, for patidnt staff, and prospective trust across

:08:50.:08:52.

the region, I'm told it was for this reason that they submitted ` joint

:08:53.:08:56.

bid following a commercial `nd legal advice opted to go to the

:08:57.:09:01.

partnership to fulfil the role of prime vendor as required by the CVG.

:09:02.:09:08.

The PFT and the Consortium was appointed at the end of September

:09:09.:09:13.

2014, and in October they formed the United care Limited liability

:09:14.:09:18.

partnership to hold the contract. The strategic projects he w`s

:09:19.:09:22.

appointed as programming advisors to the CVG, to a competitive process,

:09:23.:09:25.

their role was to manage thd procurement process, the te`m is a

:09:26.:09:32.

specialist unit hosted by the greater East Midlands commissioning

:09:33.:09:38.

support unit in one of sacr`ments. -- acronyms. It hasn't substantial

:09:39.:09:51.

experience, procurement. I understand much information about

:09:52.:09:55.

the cost of the current services, the time scales cannot be provided

:09:56.:10:00.

by the CVG to unite a care, until they were prepared to my prdferred

:10:01.:10:07.

at this stage. As a result, the bid was based on assumptions. I'm told

:10:08.:10:14.

there were 71 outstanding clarification questions frol the

:10:15.:10:20.

procurement process. The contracts signed also included several

:10:21.:10:24.

protection clauses to be usdd in the event of financial distress of

:10:25.:10:26.

either party and subsequent . With these protections in place,

:10:27.:10:42.

choice boards, the CVG and lonitor, allow the contract to be signed in

:10:43.:10:48.

November 2014, the necessarx mobile activities to facilitate service

:10:49.:10:55.

commitment on the 1st of April. There were clear improvement in

:10:56.:11:00.

patient care, for example in November 2015, emergency for people

:11:01.:11:04.

over 65 had been reduced by just one of a percent compared to thd

:11:05.:11:07.

previous year and by 9% when taking into account population growth. It

:11:08.:11:17.

was reduced by 14%. A attdndance reduced by 3.2% when taking it in to

:11:18.:11:22.

account population growth. However, in December the contract was

:11:23.:11:26.

terminated by mutual agreemdnts I'll be happy to give away. I'm very

:11:27.:11:32.

grateful for him giving way, as my right honourable friend has

:11:33.:11:37.

mentioned, there were advantages to this project, it produce good

:11:38.:11:44.

outcomes, if it is a good concept, will the Department of Health

:11:45.:11:50.

support the services that nded to be provided. My fellow Honorable friend

:11:51.:11:57.

makes an excellent point, that service is currently being

:11:58.:12:02.

continued, by the CTG rather than by the company that was created for the

:12:03.:12:05.

purpose, she makes a good point that there were forms that were put in

:12:06.:12:10.

place, they were led by loc`l commissions and designed with that

:12:11.:12:16.

in mind. Very grateful for xou giving way. We have a project, it

:12:17.:12:28.

will include beds and other services. But he agreed with me

:12:29.:12:30.

there's no reason people to become anxious this stage at this

:12:31.:12:35.

difficulty with the contract, will be to any change in the quality of

:12:36.:12:39.

services that have plans for the future. That is right, as both

:12:40.:12:46.

questions have highlighted, the change in the care pathway hs being

:12:47.:12:53.

pursued by the CVG, there is no reason for patients or users of the

:12:54.:13:00.

system to fear any dramatic change to the service, the issue that is

:13:01.:13:06.

left is how this contract c`n't be put in place, the parties dhspute

:13:07.:13:12.

how they had different concdptions of what the situation was. H don't

:13:13.:13:18.

want to prejudge that. The service performs that were put in place will

:13:19.:13:27.

and continue. The founders hs determined was taken after dxtensive

:13:28.:13:30.

discussions between the CVG, United care, Cambridge University hospitals

:13:31.:13:42.

and foundation trust, prior to escalation this ECG worked hard to

:13:43.:13:47.

try to reach resolution loc`lly I will give way. I wonder if he could

:13:48.:13:56.

actually show me or tell me or enlighten me as to the role that

:13:57.:14:00.

ministers played in that composition, the ministers know it

:14:01.:14:03.

was happening, who did actu`lly terminate the contract? As H will

:14:04.:14:10.

come on to describe due process was followed, as I am listing is so that

:14:11.:14:20.

you will be reassured that the right bodies work carried out by due

:14:21.:14:25.

diligence. I don't believe `t any point until the dispute between the

:14:26.:14:29.

parties became clear there was a reason for ministers to be

:14:30.:14:33.

concerned. These are forms had been generated by clinicians, and a

:14:34.:14:39.

constable CVG led by clinichans as I have highlighted that there were

:14:40.:14:43.

forms themselves as questions were indeed under Main. This is ` better

:14:44.:14:47.

care pathway with improved outcomes. The issue is they contractu`l issue

:14:48.:14:56.

to do with a dispute between the parties and as I said I don't want

:14:57.:14:59.

to prejudge the investigation that is going on into that, the point

:15:00.:15:01.

that hasn't he been back having the that hasn't he been back having the

:15:02.:15:05.

investigation is to work out what should have been done differently. I

:15:06.:15:08.

can reassure the Honorable lember that we are hungry to learn any

:15:09.:15:17.

lessons about that commissioning experience, we need commisshons

:15:18.:15:21.

around the country to look `t different ways of commissioning

:15:22.:15:29.

these are forms to our integration and pleasantly to be learned when

:15:30.:15:33.

they go wrong. This was a contract between the parties, and as we say

:15:34.:15:39.

we are looking for to the rdviews and what to do the lessons that

:15:40.:15:45.

others can learn. I will close by saying these ECG has taken over all

:15:46.:15:50.

those relevant contracts with providers that were held by another

:15:51.:15:54.

care to ensure that there is no services option to care. Thd

:15:55.:16:03.

majority of staff has worked closely together to ensure that there is

:16:04.:16:08.

care in the model has changdd in the service model remains in pl`ce. Of

:16:09.:16:12.

course I agree with Honorable members on this, it is a matter of

:16:13.:16:16.

extreme concern, that the ndw arrangement lasted barely shx

:16:17.:16:20.

months, this is not ideal, `nd we need to work out how these parties

:16:21.:16:25.

got it from, and what mistakes there were. There are questions that the

:16:26.:16:30.

reviews will have to to be addressed, for instance why. You're

:16:31.:16:35.

meant an assurance of the process this result and fall. In pr`ctice,

:16:36.:16:39.

and a number of other of qudstions, I would just say that to describe

:16:40.:16:47.

modern commissioning as back door privatsation is to both willfully

:16:48.:16:57.

presented what is going on H don't believe that most users of the

:16:58.:17:04.

service would consider this to be privatsation, to public-sector

:17:05.:17:06.

organizations coming togethdr to form a company for pathway hn the

:17:07.:17:13.

basement has been put together by clinicians and the locals ECG, if

:17:14.:17:16.

that is privatsation and I believe that the party opposite has a

:17:17.:17:20.

serious problem, it is what most people would consider to be

:17:21.:17:25.

enlightened commissioning for modern care pathway. The issue is `

:17:26.:17:29.

contract issue, the contract and the parties in it, do not get it right

:17:30.:17:33.

and we are keen to make surd that we understand why and what can be done

:17:34.:17:35.

to mention that it does not happen again. I once know these answers as

:17:36.:17:39.

much as the Honorable member and I repeat my invitation to meet in due

:17:40.:17:43.

course both to him and to any other honourable members.

:17:44.:17:53.

Without the contraction in `ll areas that have beveled the project.

:17:54.:18:10.

Order! The questions at the house adjourned, the Ayes habit. Order!

:18:11.:18:14.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS