Browse content similar to 27/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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World to. The Cabinet Office questions before recess, the | :00:00. | :00:17. | |
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster stated in response to a question | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
from my friends back, but the council had ?200 million in an | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
unusable reserves and concluded the problems are reported facing our | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
constituents were therefore, not real ones. I have now had it | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
confirmed that those underused reserves are not remotely close to | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
this and, even including already allocated reserves, the figure is | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
nowhere near 200 million. The Minister for Local Government is now | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
also confirmed that according to the Government's audit figures, Kirklees | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
council had less than one fifth of this amount in unallocated financial | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
reserves. Can I ask you what recourse do is for members were in | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
minister has, even if unintentionally, misled this House | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
on a matter that some seriously affect our constituents? Every | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
member of this house must take responsibility for the veracity of | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
what he or she says. If somebody thinks the house has been | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
inadvertently misled, the member is responsible for collecting the | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
record. The second point is, in terms of the recourse of the | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
honourable lady, it lies in the order paper and the advice that is | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
proffered by the table office. What I mean by that is persistence pays | :01:43. | :01:50. | |
as if she thinks she has got a good point she should repeat it. She will | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
have heard me make the observation that repetition is not a novel | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
phenomena in the house and if she wants to keep making hotpot she can | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
take advice from the College of Art and how to do so and most of them | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
are very practised in the art. -- from the colleagues around her. The | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
house will have heard the many tributes made to Holocaust memorial | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
Day and the Memorial trust campaign. Does he not think it was | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
inappropriate for the Prime Minister to use a language relating to the | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
refugee crisis in Europe and talk about a bunch of migrants? Does he | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
think it would be appropriate for the house to ask the Prime Minister | :02:42. | :02:51. | |
to withdraw that language. Much more statesman-like language on such a | :02:52. | :02:53. | |
complex and sensitive issue should be used. The right speaks with | :02:54. | :03:01. | |
enormous experience in this House and I respect what she says and | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
empathise with her observations about Holocaust memorial day which | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
she and I on other occasions have marked at events together. I think | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
what she said very seriously. I have to say to her and to the House that | :03:16. | :03:23. | |
the observation in question was not disorderly or unparliamentary. | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
Everyone must take responsibility for the remarks they make in this | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
house and it is clear the right honourable lady would not have used | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
that term. It is open to the Prime Minister to comment on it if he | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
wishes but I am not entitled to try to oblige him to see anything on the | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
matter. She has made her point very clearly and it is on the record and | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
people will make their own assessments of this matter. Let's | :03:52. | :04:04. | |
have a point of order. Business questions last week I asked a | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
question relating to post study work visas, an issue of an ongoing | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
enquiry. The Leader of the House responded by stating this was, an | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
area not Jimmy Smith, Jim report. I have a copy here and on page 28 of | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
the report it says the Scottish and UK Government should work together | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
to explore the possibility of introducing schemes to allow | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
students graduating from higher education institutes to remain in | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
Scotland and contribute to economic activity for a defined period of | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
time. Can you advise ways in which the Leader of the House can correct | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
the record I know of a commitment that the Government will seriously | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
consider this issue as recommended by the cross-party Smith, shouldn't? | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
Notwithstanding the serious and statesman-like countenance of the | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
honourable gentleman, it suffered from the quite material disadvantage | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
of being many things, but not a point of order for each year. We can | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
all read the Smith report, I confess I am not myself familiar with or | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
have an instant recall of page 24 and the honourable gentleman has the | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
advantage on media. When he asks what opportunities there is for him | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
to hold the Leader of the House to account, the short answer is to | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
model at business questions I am sure the honourable gentleman will | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
be in his place and if he is I will see him. Part of order. Government | :05:42. | :05:50. | |
ministers are both in this house and in Westminster Hall have made a | :05:51. | :05:52. | |
number of statements and claims about the steel industry in | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
particular the issue of procurement and measures being taken by the | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
Government. It was extraordinary to get a written answer from the | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
Ministry of Defence that said they do not hold a record of steel | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
procurement either in quantity or country of origin. In light of that | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
how you think I might be able to gain greater clarity on whether the | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
Government's claims of procurement in the steel industry are actually | :06:21. | :06:21. | |
the case? As I believe the honourable member | :06:22. | :06:40. | |
is away, his answer lies in for the questions and the beat. This is | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
ample opportunity to seek adjournment debates. I do not mean | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
to be discourteous, but I think, in truth, which is in evidence from his | :06:52. | :07:01. | |
grin, he was more important in making his point to me, rather than | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
anything I had to say about it. With regard to my honourable friend 's | :07:09. | :07:17. | |
question. The honourable gentleman was referred to by his first name. I | :07:18. | :07:26. | |
do not believe that is the case. He should not be referred to by his | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
first name, but by his constituency. I think the Prime Minister did this | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
to make sure he would get on the news coverage in London at the time. | :07:39. | :07:46. | |
I believe the Prime Minister is being disrespectful to those and to | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
the procedures in seeking electoral advantage for the Conservative | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
Party. Would you confirm that and if so, how could we upgrade the Prime | :07:58. | :07:59. | |
Minister for his discourteous behaviour. He has rather magnify the | :08:00. | :08:07. | |
issue. I do not disrespect them for that. I would see, first, yes of | :08:08. | :08:16. | |
course, members should be referred to by their constituencies, not by | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
the names, and secondly, I think it was almost certainly an oversight. | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
Even the Prime Minister, who is immensely experienced at the | :08:28. | :08:36. | |
dispatch box, can in the heat of the moment be responsible for an | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
oversight. I do not think it was anything more than that. Just as I | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
momentarily forgot to call Mr Vickers to ask his question. We are | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
all fallible. I suspect even the honourable gentleman may sometimes | :08:55. | :08:54. | |
be. Know that the appetite for points of | :08:55. | :09:24. | |
order has been seated, we know who come to the Ten-Minute Rule motion. | :09:25. | :09:48. | |
The first measure says the voluntary removal from the register of driving | :09:49. | :09:56. | |
instructors should be initiated. This is when the registration has | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
lapsed between one in four years. To qualify to become a driving | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
inspector, one has to pass through the driving examinations, which test | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
both of driving ability, the instructional skill and their | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
medical fitness. The total cost of taking all the required tests is | :10:18. | :10:27. | |
approximately ?750. Driving instructors name is added to the | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
register and remains on it for four years. Once Pearson is on the | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
register, they are required to take a standard up straight with them for | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
years to make sure they are still instructing to an approved standard. | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
Under current legislation, the only way a person can be removed is of | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
the registration runs out or they are removed from the register for | :10:56. | :11:04. | |
conduct, Colin competence or disciplinary reasons. This would | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
allow the register for people to be removed from it for the likes of | :11:13. | :11:19. | |
illness, ill or for example keeling for an elderly relative. These three | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
examples have been brought to my attention. The first is one who was | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
keeling for his terminally ill parent and could not attend his | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
standards check. He had to be removed from the register for | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
disciplinary reasons. To return to the register, he would have to | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
requalify the other 3-part qualification route and his | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
disciplinary record would be taken into consideration. The second | :11:50. | :12:00. | |
example is a female who was unable to renew her registration because | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
she had taken a career break to raise two young children. She would | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
then have had to undergo this 3-part prequalification process. She would | :12:10. | :12:18. | |
have preferred to leave the register voluntarily and return at a later | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
date. The third and final example is one who allowed his registration to | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
lapse due to a heart attack. At the end of the 12 month period in which | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
he could reregister without having to requalify, he was still on | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
medication and did not feel able enough to resume construction. The | :12:39. | :12:45. | |
did allow him a two-month period of grace. But he felt this place them | :12:46. | :12:53. | |
undue stress. He thought it may impact on 's recovery. Currently, | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
when they have been off the register for a year that can reapply and be | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
added back onto the register subject to conduct an medical fitness | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
requirements. However, if it lapses more than a year, they would to the | :13:07. | :13:14. | |
three qualification exams. The problems caused by the current | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
legislation have been brought to our attention by a constituent who runs | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
a driving school. They have 200 drivers. There reasons for | :13:26. | :13:37. | |
contacting me were as follows, the industry is losing instructors due | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
to many factors. This process of the qualifying can be a long time, which | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
means there is a real shortage of driving instructors. His company as | :13:48. | :13:56. | |
the waiting list of some 68 weeks for pupils to learn to drive. This | :13:57. | :14:04. | |
is stopping many young adults. This is a common-sense issue. He has | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
spoken to many drivers who are meeting the same issues. As a role | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
of the driving instructor is not a physical one, many former driving | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
instructors are trying to get back into the industry by the recall of | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
buying process is lengthy and they have thus decided not to do so. Many | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
have many -- much to give to the industry through the experience and | :14:32. | :14:41. | |
skill. The difference is within the 12 month situation. To help | :14:42. | :14:51. | |
alleviate the problem, we need the process to be streamlined. If | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
possible, the 12 month period should be extended. The cost of the | :14:56. | :15:03. | |
pre-qualifying exams, are both seen as reasons for people failing to | :15:04. | :15:10. | |
return to the profession after a break. There are some 43,000 | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
registered driving instructors and just 25 on average just want to | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
return to the industry of them each year. We think the qualifying time | :15:21. | :15:35. | |
would be reduced from 36 weeks to six weeks and avoid the cost of | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
undergoing the 3-part qualification once again. The standards check | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
would be the same as one which the practising driving instructors | :15:48. | :15:57. | |
already take. A person applying to re-enter the industry through this | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
route with pass a standards check. If the field that he claims they | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
would have to repeat the 3-part qualification process, thus | :16:09. | :16:10. | |
maintaining the high standards within the industry. This would not | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
be available to people who had been the register for disciplinary | :16:18. | :16:25. | |
reasons. Many of those working in the industry are in small businesses | :16:26. | :16:38. | |
or self-employed. The changes are outlined in this bill and would | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
allow the ADIs two re-enter the industry more quickly. This would be | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
of benefit both to the driving instructors and to the industry and | :16:50. | :16:59. | |
to the public. The would-be up to the same standard as the colleagues. | :17:00. | :17:10. | |
The geographical limits of the bill would be for Great Britain, | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
excluding Northern Ireland. It would allow instructors to come off the | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
register for a period of time for Hill or family reasons and this | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
would be a cost-effective way for them to return to the profession | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
without compromising instruction standards. I commend this to the | :17:30. | :17:50. | |
house. As many as would see aye? The ayes have it. Who would bring in the | :17:51. | :17:52. | |
bill? Driving and structures registration | :17:53. | :18:40. | |
bill. Second reading? February the 5th. We come to the mean business, | :18:41. | :18:48. | |
opposition the 17th a lot today. In first, to the motion of reduction in | :18:49. | :18:58. | |
housing benefit. Just before I call the rate honourable gentleman, it | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
may be of interest to the house and useful to the front benches to know | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
that no fewer than 19 members are seeking to catch my eye from the | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
backbenches. Disabling upon the time limit, I shall have to take into | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
account the length of contributions from the front bench, the front | :19:22. | :19:29. | |
bench being ever consider well I am sure wish that the contributions are | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
tailored to allow for the views of the backbenches to be here. Thank | :19:34. | :19:42. | |
you, Mr Speaker. We have called Vista beta give voice to hundreds of | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
thousands of vulnerable people whose houses have been put at risk by the | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
government. It is very encouraging to know that 19 members on both | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
sides of the house wish to express their concerns and make a | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
contribution to this debate. We want to expose this decision to challenge | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
and to expose it to compassion and to clear. We want to expose it to | :20:11. | :20:20. | |
common-sense. In the spending review, the Chancellor announced, | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
and I quote, housing benefit and the social sector will be capped. With | :20:24. | :20:30. | |
one short sweeping sentence, he put at risk almost all supported and | :20:31. | :20:38. | |
shelter closing for the frail and elderly, the homeless, adults | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
needing care, those suffering with dementia, those with mental illness | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
or physical disability, veterans of those women fleeing domestic | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
violence. Nearly half of all social housing schemes could be faced with | :20:54. | :21:01. | |
closure. He has already closed caused the cancellation of building | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
work on 2500 new houses for people of these groups. | :21:06. | :21:15. | |
The Chancellor was not housing benefit cuts could affect the lives | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
of hundreds of thousands of people who depend on this special housing, | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
many of the most vulnerable people, with nowhere else to turn. The | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
National Housing Federation says 156,000 homes, or at least that | :21:33. | :21:39. | |
number of people, are set to close. One in four supportive housing | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
providers are set to close a bruising, the farm. 19 out of 20 say | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
they will close some of the they will close some of the | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
supported accommodation. Since the spending review I have been asking | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
ministers for evidence about this decision. I have asked the minister | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
how many elderly people will be affected by this cut and he has told | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
me the Government does not know. How many women are fleeing domestic | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
violence? Don't know. How many people with mental health problems?. | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
No. Young people leaving care. Don't know. The Government do not know how | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
many people in supportive housing receive the benefit they plan to | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
cut. But he has told me they have commissioned and evidence review | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
that was started in December 2014 and should have been finished by | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
last November but it was not. Why not? Well, and parliamentary | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
questions the minister said it is bound to, the emerging complexity in | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
the design and delivery of the review. Let me finish this point | :22:49. | :22:58. | |
before I give way. The Minister did not know what he was doing when he | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
commissioned the review and he must have been alone and less house and | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
the country not to know there was a general election in May last year. | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
He says it will be ready later this year. So he doesn't even know when | :23:14. | :23:21. | |
he will know what at the moment he does not know. What a shambles. What | :23:22. | :23:28. | |
a serious dereliction of duty for a Government that should be making | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
policy on evidence, especially when it affects the lives of so many | :23:33. | :23:40. | |
vulnerable people. I give way. Does he agree that one helpful when the | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
Minister could do during this debate is to make clear that the cap | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
applies to housing benefit and not to the service charge that is | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
applied to so many in supported accommodation? I don't often | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
disagree with my honourable friend what I do not agree with that. What | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
is clear, as in other motion, is the Government must act immediately, | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
confirmed they will exempt supported housing from these housing benefit | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
cuts and then work with the housing providers to make sure this sort of | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
housing can be developed for the future and secure in the future. I | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
hope my honourable friend will accept that argument. The suggestion | :24:25. | :24:32. | |
that the Government doesn't know what is that not also a suggestion | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
that they don't care about the people they are directly affecting. | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
It was estimated that investment in supported housing benefits are still | :24:41. | :24:49. | |
around ?640 million a year. I will not likely on that question later on | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
and I think people can make their own judgments. A devastating | :24:53. | :25:07. | |
decision made with no consultation, low impact assessment, no evidence. | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
My honourable friend is right, this is not a tussle between two front | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
benches, this concerns each and every member of this house. Every MP | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
in this country has in their constituency hundreds of residents | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
in supported housing or sheltered housing, many of whom can't pay the | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
rent and service charges for themselves and who totally dependent | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
on housing benefit to help cover the costs. I am very grateful to my | :25:39. | :25:46. | |
honourable friend for giving way. Isn't the real unfairness here many | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
of those constituents of all of us who are in supported housing, for | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
them, supported housing is actually a very expensive but necessary | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
choice, and without the additional support through the housing benefit | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
system they would not be able to afford that form of accommodation | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
that is so vital to the everyday needs. My honourable friend, in | :26:10. | :26:16. | |
characteristic way, puts in a couple of sentences the main point I am | :26:17. | :26:25. | |
making in my speech. You rightly said that all of us will have | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
constituents in sheltered housing. The well-known we all care about | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
endless house, irrespective of party, about our constituents. Can I | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
ask him to disassociate themselves made by his honourable friend that | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
this side of the house don't care because we do. In a way it is down | :26:46. | :26:53. | |
to the honourable gentleman and his front bench colleagues to | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
demonstrate that case to the people watching this debate and certainly | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
to those people who's a very homes and lives are put at risk. I make | :27:02. | :27:09. | |
the point that every member of this house, and our constituencies, we | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
have people threatened by this crude housing benefit cut that the | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
Chancellor has announced. In the Housing Minister's constituency | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
alone in Great Yarmouth, the 258 people in supported housing. On top | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
of that there are at least 139 people in sheltered housing. The | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
numbers are greater in South Swindon and for Tunbridge Wells. What do we | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
say to these residents and their families? What do we say to the | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
charities, housing associations, churches and other groups who | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
provide the special housing and who are so concerned? Idea can wait one | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
more time. Surely he's got to concede this is not the back of a | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
backpacker policy but this Government is doing the sensible | :28:02. | :28:11. | |
thing and collecting the data into a proper exercise on assisted housing | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
with an impact assessment and also put aside almost ?500 million for | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
housing payments and the changes will not come into effect until | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
April 20 18. Surely that is a sensible policy? We have not seen | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
information evidence and quite honestly, what about the information | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
or evidence, why on earth is the Chancellor has made this decision in | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
the spending review before Christmas, pre-empting exactly what | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
good policy and decision-making should be based on? On the basis | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
that he has not seen evidence, why has he called the debate at this | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
point in time? I have called this debate with my honourable friend to | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
give voice to the concerns that are widespread, to try and pick the | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
Government think again and to say that it must exempt and I will come | :29:04. | :29:11. | |
onto it in a moment, why this is an urgent and immediate decision but | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
ministers face. The Chancellor's decision, by way of explanation | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
about why this is going to work in this way, caps the housing benefit | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
for social tenants at the new rate. The same level as private rented | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
tenants currently receive what the local housing allowance. For most | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
housing association homes this will not cause tenants any immediate | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
concerns as the Reds are lower. Specialist housing services and | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
schemes, which provide essential care and support, have higher | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
housing costs, with the higher rates and service charges often covered by | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
housing benefit. The Government zero best from their own report in 2011. | :29:59. | :30:05. | |
It listed the main reasons and I quote, providing 24 hour housing | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
management cover, more housing related support, more frequent | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
repairs or refurbishment, more frequent mediating between tenants | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
and providing CCTV and security services. This is why rents in these | :30:21. | :30:28. | |
types of accommodation do not mirror the rates in general private rented | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
accommodation in the local area. But this is the level of the | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
Chancellor's at and cap. I will give way. He will know that in Nottingham | :30:39. | :30:49. | |
in the housing charity Framework have been appalled at the potential | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
impact this change will have on their supported accommodation for | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
some of the most vulnerable people in my constituency. There are | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
hundreds of spaces that they say will have to close by 2018 if this | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
change goes ahead. This is a very real problem facing some of the most | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
deprived and vulnerable people in our country and I applaud the fact | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
she has called this position in the debate today. I thank my honourable | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
friend and applaud his effort to talk to those providers in his | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
constituency and safety fears that Framework have expressed are widely | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
held amongst providers who offer this type of housing and support. I | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
don't know what the figures he has got to are, but Almost Like six | :31:39. | :31:47. | |
figures in Birmingham that expose the shortfall. The average rent in a | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
homeless hostel is about ?180 per week. The local housing allowance | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
rate in Birmingham is half of that at ?98.87. The local housing | :31:58. | :32:10. | |
allowance rate for a room in a shared house is just ?57.30 a week, | :32:11. | :32:17. | |
a shortfall of over ?120 per week their tenants. This supported | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
housing is not just an emergency bed or a roof over their head, it helps | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
people get their lives back together. Last year, 1500, two out | :32:30. | :32:36. | |
of every five of the people at Saint Mungo 's house in the hostels, moved | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
on from supported housing into their own accommodation. Saint Vincent's | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
the Manchester -based housing charity, and 15 of the young | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
residents don't on to university, one to Oxford. For thousands of | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
autism, learning disabilities, autism, learning disabilities, | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
dementia, mental illness, living as independently as possible in | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
supported housing, there is no alternative. Other than hospital or | :33:07. | :33:14. | |
residential care. Much more institutionalised what the | :33:15. | :33:16. | |
residents, much more expensive for the taxpayer. This policy risks | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
turning back the clock on people's the lives and standard of care by 40 | :33:24. | :33:34. | |
years. She has illustrated some people for whom the alternative may | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
be much more expensive and less adequate care but there are other | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
people such as the woman fleeing domestic violence with their | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
children who come to a very good centre of accommodation in my | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
constituency who will literally have no alternative at all to go to if | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
these places are closed down by these measures. My honourable friend | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
understands this better than perhaps any anyone else in this house. There | :34:00. | :34:06. | |
is no alternative to the supported housing that many of the most | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
vulnerable people need and how this housing at present have available | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
and this is why we see in this debate that ministers must act | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
immediately to exempt supported housing in full from these cuts and | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
must undertake detailed consultation with providers on how such housing | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
can be secured in the future. Before Christmas I revealed the skill of | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
the problems facing those in specialist supported housing and | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
since then dot-macro carry on to anyone. Since then we have had a | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
series of half baked statements from the Government. First, this is | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
unnecessary scare mongering. We are giving voice to the warnings and | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
evidence of those who have the facts and will have to manage the | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
consequences. Organisations the British public trust and emotional | :35:01. | :35:08. | |
respect. Asian UK, Women's eight. Second, nothing will change until | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
2018. Not true. The cut at the tap up like the new tenancies from April | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
this year. The problem is immediate. My own local housing association | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
tell me, it takes time to the house anyone. Let alone the most | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
vulnerable people. Consultation on closures, they say, must begin | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
within a matter of weeks. 01 will sign contracts for supported housing | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
when don't know if the basic costs can be covered. New investment has | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
already been stopped in its tracks. One in five providers have frozen | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
new investment and new schemes according to the insight housing | :35:57. | :36:06. | |
survey. Mencap up plans for much investment over the next five years | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
and that has been scrapped. Fondling, I quote, additional | :36:14. | :36:15. | |
discretionary housing payment funding will be made available to | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
local authorities to protect the most vulnerable, including those in | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
supported accommodation. Lot through. This fund is run by | :36:25. | :36:32. | |
councils to deal with emergency applications for people already | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
coping with the bedroom tax, benefits cap and cuts to housing | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
allowance in the last Parliament. It is currently ?120 million a year and | :36:45. | :36:52. | |
it is a short-term overstretched an lady. The Autumn Statement and | :36:53. | :37:01. | |
policy costing document scores the cost of the Chancellor's housing | :37:02. | :37:09. | |
benefit cut at ?515 million. I much of the Government proposing to top | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
up discretionary housing payment is funded by? Lot 515 million, but ?70 | :37:15. | :37:22. | |
million. Housing organisations quite rightly dismiss this idea that the | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
bond is the solution as nonsense and unworkable. | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
I want to ask my honourable friend on that point. The insufficiency of | :37:35. | :37:43. | |
discretionary housing payment is her bedroom tax have been shown time and | :37:44. | :37:51. | |
time again. Does my right honourable friend agree how much it pays | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
remains of vulnerable people when they know that the facing the sort | :37:55. | :38:02. | |
of situation. They have to apply for the discretionary payment and may | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
not get it. I think my honourable friend is talking about the court | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
case, which run the government in breach of equality legislation. We | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
always said the bedroom tax was unclear. It was punishing for those | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
who could not make up the difference. I hope the High Court | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
judgment today will lead ministers to think again about the bedroom tax | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
as well as acting to stop this housing benefit bill damaging the | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
prospect of so many people. The question for the housing minister | :38:35. | :38:42. | |
and the Secretary of State is this, did they discuss this cart with | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
Treasury ministers before the spending review? Will the department | :38:47. | :38:59. | |
even consulted? Either way, did the spotted or stop it? Either way, we | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
have the department which has been disregarded and overridden by the | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
Chancellor. And we have the housing minister here today. He is trying to | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
explain why housing schemes support more than 150,000 of the most | :39:16. | :39:23. | |
vulnerable people in the country. The real culprit keeps his head down | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
in the Treasury. Forced to backtrack on tax credits, when it stands on | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
benefits like fire, the Chancellor Tom to benefits. Cuts across the | :39:35. | :39:41. | |
board to make his fiscal sums add up. And with this, he has made the | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
same error of judgment. It is not the politics of good policy or a | :39:48. | :39:54. | |
basic humanity. He announces first and asks questions later and he is | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
feeling very vulnerable people and the taxpayer, as well. This is a big | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
test for the Conservative government. The Prime Minister said | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
just before the election, I do not want to leave anyone behind. The | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
test of a good society is regular cast of the elderly, the Friel, the | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
vulnerable, the purist in our society. Will the government | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
confirmed today that they will exempt in fool from this crude | :40:27. | :40:35. | |
sweeping housing benefit cut, those in supported and sheltered housing? | :40:36. | :40:42. | |
And will rework those who provide the hosting to make sure it is | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
secure for the future? I move this motion before the house today. The | :40:48. | :40:54. | |
only decision to take from ministers is a decision to exempt, a decision | :40:55. | :41:07. | |
which would be based on compression and clear. The question is is on the | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
order paper. I: the minister. Thank you Mr Speaker. I stand before you | :41:14. | :41:21. | |
grateful for the subject chosen by the opposition for today's debate. | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
We are always on the side of the hose happy to discuss welfare reform | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
because it is at the heart of the government agenda and we make no | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
apology for our commitment on it to the people of Britain. We need to | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
balance the books and introduced the welfare system which is free to | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
taxpayers. We are having a job is always preferable to having a life | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
on benefits. We have to be remained as of the honourable gentleman is in | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
a vacuum. We have to be remained where he has come from. In the | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
theme, in 2010, we inherited that welfare system that field to be | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
walked work, product taxpayers and was a millstone around the neck of | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
the British economy. In 15 years of Labour government, welfare spending | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
shot up by 60% in real terms. Many people spent the last decade trapped | :42:20. | :42:27. | |
in out of work benefits. It was costing taxpayers an extra ?3000 a | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
year each. Was my honourable friend surprised as I was when he does | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
opposite number talking about good policy when the last ten years of | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
the Labour government, housing benefit increased by 46% in real | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
terms. How would that be to him and to be good policy? My honourable | :42:48. | :42:54. | |
friend makes a very powerful point in a way that the last Labour | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
government trapped people into that dependency, while we want to get | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
them out of the poll giving a fair deal to the British taxpayer. My | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
honourable friend likely that the contribution from the front bench as | :43:11. | :43:22. | |
long flannel but short on facts. There will be long-term benefits | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
from capping housing benefit. My honourable friend highlights some of | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
the problems with the opposition viewpoint. The Field to look at the | :43:35. | :43:42. | |
entire picture. I will give way. With the Minister confirm that the | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
last Coalition Government spent ?130 billion more than the previous | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
Labour government on welfare, reaching ?1 trillion for the first | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
time under any government. That is a fact. I think the honourable | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
gentleman has highlighted the terrible mess the Coalition | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
Government inherited. It highlights that there was simply no fearless in | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
a system like that for hard-working taxpayers. There was nothing | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
progressive about trapping people in these lives. There will free a | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
system that was left to others was broken. They have opposed every | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
decision we have taken to fix it. We have never hear proposals for | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
alternatives, which can only mean they oppose making any difficult | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
decisions whatsoever. It is easy to make noise, it is very hard to do | :44:38. | :44:40. | |
the right thing by the British people. We have seen one tactic time | :44:41. | :44:49. | |
and time again, scaremongering and exploiting the fears of these | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
people. This debate debate today is no exception. I will give way. If he | :44:55. | :45:04. | |
wants a specific proposal to save housing benefit, why did you not | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
look at the ?4.6 billion lost and rising from fraud and error in the | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
administration of the housing benefit system. Why does he not get | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
a better grip on? They could introduce better credit ratings. | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
That is really saving should be made, not on the back of the most | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
vulnerable people in our society. We are very clear about protecting the | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
most vulnerable people in society. We need to crack down on fraud and. | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
The last Labour government did absolutely nothing to do on that | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
subject. Will he remained the house that the government is issuing 100 | :45:44. | :45:52. | |
billion to be allocated to local authorities for housing benefit. My | :45:53. | :46:03. | |
honourable friend makes a good point. I would see it is slightly | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
better, it is a which is coming better, it is a which is coming | :46:10. | :46:17. | |
through. This highlights what the government as a clear focus on the | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
issue. With the honourable friend she my surprise that until we had | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
from the Shadow Chancellor, in listening for 25 minutes, we had not | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
hear any suggestions that housing benefit was now an issue that any | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
responsible Chancellor of the Exchequer would have to work out. We | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
spend more on housing benefit in this country than we do on secondary | :46:43. | :46:49. | |
education. 50% of what we spend on a defence budget. No responsible | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
Chancellor would not be losing sleep about housing benefit and wanting to | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
reform it. My honourable friend makes another very clear and | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
important point. In the last six years, they have said nothing | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
constructive about how to deal with the issues for the benefit of the | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
taxpayer. This government has always been clear that the most vulnerable | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
will be supported throughout welfare reform. We know he will free system | :47:19. | :47:26. | |
is vital to supporting them. It is essential that all vulnerable people | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
have a roof over the ahead and that is why we are determined to support | :47:30. | :47:37. | |
the housing needs. We set aside ?500 million to create a safety net. The | :47:38. | :47:45. | |
increase for abuse victims shows our commitment. ?400 million to deliver | :47:46. | :47:54. | |
specialist affordable homes for the vulnerable, elderly or those with | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
disabilities. We are funding up to 7500 specialist homes for older and | :48:01. | :48:09. | |
vulnerable people. By 2020, we will be spending at least ?10 million a | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
year extra over and above inflation, including a record ?11.4 billion a | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
year on mental health, which we can do because of the stronger economy | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
of which this Chancellor was brought to the country. He is giving out | :48:25. | :48:32. | |
statistics about how much money that pretty government has put aside I | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
will spend. I ask a straight question. The people sub currently | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
unsupported housing, will be protected, they will not be toughed | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
out and made homeless? As I have outlined, we will make sure that the | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
most vulnerable people are protected. That is what the welfare | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
system is all about. I will give way. When he talks about women's | :48:58. | :49:08. | |
refuges, the manager of my local women's aid, she said that there is | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
no doubt that the situation with housing benefit is already stretched | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
to the maximum. The reality is we would be unable to find refuge | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
provision of this went ahead. What does the Minister city to the | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
manager, who provides the brilliant service for vulnerable women and | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
children in a desperate situation. There's an extra ?40 million coming | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
through for abuse services. The funding for supported housing as | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
part of the wider settlement for councils. This includes ?5.3 billion | :49:49. | :49:56. | |
for the better clear funds. This is to give deeper integration of | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
housing and social care. This will help intervene in early action so | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
that people can remain in their own houses for longer. The Minister | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
talking about the better clear front, they are seeing the money | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
will not reach the councils. New home bonuses are being taken back at | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
the same time. They have already lost a lot of support for vulnerable | :50:22. | :50:29. | |
people. Does he believe that the most vulnerable will be supported. | :50:30. | :50:38. | |
That is simply not true. How older people will be protected. I would | :50:39. | :50:45. | |
ask the Minister to not talk about discretionary housing payments, | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
because they have been shown to be irrelevant. She is talking about the | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
new money coming through. I would say with regard to supported homes, | :50:57. | :51:02. | |
our affordable homes programme delivered 6% more homes than the | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
other Labour's equivalent ever did. The supported housing sector is read | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
in the lead. All the varied types of provision have one thing in common, | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
they all provide dedicated support for some of the country's most | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
vulnerable people. I will just make some progress. | :51:20. | :51:26. | |
You many supported housing tenants have multiple physical and mental | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
health problems, histories of offending and dependency issues. | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
They may be elderly, socially isolated and these barriers to | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
employment or living independently. But social housing can also reduce | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
the cost to the wider public sector. I am sure this whole House would | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
agree we want all our families, friends and constituents to live | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
fulfilling lives and where possible in their own home. Some people need | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
more help to do that. Supported housing gets them that assistance, | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
it provides safety and stability, helps people get their lives in | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
order, improves their health and well-being and gives them a platform | :52:13. | :52:13. | |
to reach their full potential. We to reach their full potential. We | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
have been out for ourselves seeing the different supported housing can | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
make. Homeless hostels such as one in Plymouth I visited where they | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
provide accommodation but also valuable opportunities for people in | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
recovery. The same is true for specialised housing for older and | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
disabled people. Or the residents to fight delighted with their homes but | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
allow them to maintain independence. Their only regret was they had not | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
moved in sooner. One of my colleagues also has seen how | :52:51. | :53:00. | |
domestic abuse victims and programmes are helping women for the | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
terrible abuse and violent relationships. Protecting the most | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
vulnerable in society and supporting the housing needs is as much a | :53:08. | :53:09. | |
priority as driving down the deficit priority as driving down the deficit | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
and there need be no contradiction between these two games. Last week I | :53:15. | :53:24. | |
visited in my constituency somewhere that provide a brilliant support for | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
young people who would otherwise be homeless. They have expressed their | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
grave concerns to me about the impact of the withdrawal of housing | :53:33. | :53:38. | |
benefit for 16 to 21-year-olds, both in relation to the man for the | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
services and also on young people who are ready to move on but won't | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
be able to access housing benefit for the homes they need. How does | :53:48. | :53:54. | |
the minister after that point? I think there was a intervention in | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
that speech and I would say to the honourable lady she had experience | :53:58. | :54:05. | |
something I experienced and the excellent work these organisations | :54:06. | :54:08. | |
do and that is why it is important we help the lot of vulnerable in | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
society. Is the difference between the two sides when talking about | :54:14. | :54:19. | |
helping disabled people, that we have got 339,000 disabled people | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
into work. In 2010 the party opposite provided of a situation | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
where 70% on disability allowance had never been reassessed. My | :54:31. | :54:36. | |
honourable friend highlights the difference between the two parties | :54:37. | :54:38. | |
in making sure we get a deal that in making sure we get a deal that | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
will direct the most vulnerable in society, gives an aspirational | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
opportunities to move forward whilst getting a fair and proper deal for | :54:47. | :54:53. | |
the hard-working taxpayer. And the Autumn Statement we announce social | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
sector rents eligible for housing benefit will be limited to the level | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
of the relevant local housing along is a great including shared | :55:02. | :55:04. | |
accommodation rates for single clone is under 35 who do not have | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
dependent children. This will be effective from April 2018. I know | :55:09. | :55:16. | |
this has raised some concerns so let me be clear. We will always protect | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
and make sure we ensure appropriate protection for the most vulnerable | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
in supported housing and will work closely with the sector to be | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
supported housing review to make sure we do that in exactly the right | :55:30. | :55:37. | |
way. You rightly recognised the importance of supported and special | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
housing and he has now indicated somehow the Government will protect | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
people in the circumstances. Can he give any indication how that will be | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
done and when these measures will be announced given up housing | :55:53. | :55:55. | |
plan for potential changes in 2018 plan for potential changes in 2018 | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
that could lead to the of existing accommodation? The honourable | :56:00. | :56:06. | |
gentleman has asked me to continue because I was going to come on to | :56:07. | :56:12. | |
say that, as I'm sure he will appreciate, one of our underlying | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
principles that are the bedrock of the policy formation. The honourable | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
gentleman himself urges us to know the concerns of supported housing | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
providers, so let me reassure all members that we have been listening | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
and will continue to very carefully listen to the concerns of supported | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
housing providers. My colleagues and myself have met with representatives | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
of the National Housing Association and others to provide a supportive | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
housing and listen carefully to all these representations and noted | :56:46. | :56:48. | |
everything we have been told. We know the cost of supported housing | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
provision are higher and general housing needs and providers rely on | :56:53. | :57:00. | |
benefit funding for various aspects of this. I just wonder if she could | :57:01. | :57:09. | |
point out how exactly he has been helping to protect the most | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
vulnerable in the study for a specialist within's refugees that | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
have already shut since the Conservatives came to power? Would | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
you also like to join me later in meeting pretty much every CEO from | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
all the woman's aid across the country to see what the thing? Am | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
slightly surprised in the honourable ladys comments. She might want to | :57:31. | :57:38. | |
talk to colleagues about the fact they made illegal in before and I | :57:39. | :57:41. | |
will always be the chairman of the select committee 's intervention. | :57:42. | :57:49. | |
Mike Department Art commission a fact-finding review of the sector | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
that will report by the end of March and deepen our knowledge and | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
understanding. The research has included extensive consultation with | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
local authorities and all categories of supported housing providers, | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
charities, housing associations or the commercial sector. This will | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
provide us with a better picture of the supported housing accommodation | :58:12. | :58:23. | |
sector. In the meantime, the 1% production will be deferred for 12 | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
months for supported accommodation. We will get the findings of this | :58:28. | :58:28. | |
review in the spring and work with review in the spring and work with | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
the sector to ensure essential services they deliver continue to be | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
provided whilst protecting the taxpayer, making sure we make best | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
use of the taxpayer's money and meet Government's fiscal commitments. We | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
will look urgently at this to provide certainty for the sector. I | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
thank the Minister for giving way and setting out the next steps. Can | :58:54. | :58:59. | |
I put it politely to him though that he ought to have done this research | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
before making the announcement in the first place, and can he now also | :59:04. | :59:09. | |
help the house to give certainty to those housing providers, precisely | :59:10. | :59:14. | |
implemented to offset the changes in implemented to offset the changes in | :59:15. | :59:19. | |
housing benefit? I would say to the honourable gentleman that the mess | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
the last Labour Government lest this country and financially means we | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
must take difficult decisions and moved quickly to ensure taxpayers | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
working with a Chancellor who sees working with a Chancellor who sees | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
that as one of first and foremost duties. Can either the on the side | :59:36. | :59:41. | |
of the house to warmly welcomed the announcement might right honourable | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
friend made. It makes eminent sense to postpone this decision for one | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
year until the basis of proper evidence and fact and this report is | :59:50. | :59:56. | |
published in March. After that can't get them come to conclusions quickly | :59:57. | :00:03. | |
on the matter. There is a lot of uncertainty in the sector and I urge | :00:04. | :00:06. | |
him to rapidly come to conclusions after the review is finished? As my | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
honourable friend rightly says we will be looking to work urgently | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
with the sector when the review comes in to provide certainty. Out | :00:14. | :00:23. | |
well, this partial step an indication of progress. It has taken | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
Labour to post this debate in order to get ministers today 12 month | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
backward step on the reduction in rents. But what about the cuts to | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
housing benefit for supported and sheltered housing? A pause is not | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
enough. It will not remove the alarm or anxiety of residence, nor the | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
uncertainty for providers, it will not stop the scheme that have | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
already been scrapped. Will he now announced that today? It's almost | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
like the honourable gentleman forgets that while he was a minister | :00:58. | :01:04. | |
that the Government of that time actually was the Government that | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
removed the spare room subsidy was done under Labour into the private | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
sector and created this unfairness and we now see. I will not stand | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
here and taking lecture from this Government do the right thing to | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
deliver the right outcomes and do what we have always said the other, | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
to protect the most vulnerable in society, whilst Labour simply want | :01:26. | :01:34. | |
to get a headline by scaremongering. Can equal hugely welcome the except | :01:35. | :01:42. | |
German as a real meaningful announcement -- the exception. The | :01:43. | :01:52. | |
money for victims of domestic violence is also hugely welcome, | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
rather than the political point scoring from the opposition wheeled | :01:56. | :02:04. | |
her today. My honourable friend highlights the difference between | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
the two parties. Could he just confirm that, as examples of those | :02:09. | :02:17. | |
who will benefit from this exception for the 1% of introduction during | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
this year of consideration, will include those for being the most the | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
abuse, housing for ex-offenders as well as supportive housing. Does he | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
recognise how much this will be welcome but also paid tribute to | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
those working with him on this, like the homeless Link in Mongo's? My | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
honourable friend makes a very good boy and there are a huge number of | :02:43. | :02:51. | |
people who provide vital services and that's my coordinator at the | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
right protections are in place for the most vulnerable. This Government | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
will always protect the most vulnerable and provide them with the | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
support they need. We are a one nation Government and want everyone | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
to have the opportunity to live happy and fulfilling lives. We want | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
workers to earn a living wage and benefit from our strong economic | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
growth. We want to support aspiration and boost productivity, | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
reward work of welfare and allow people to keep more of the money | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
they have earned. To keep moving from a low wage, high tax, high | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
welfare economy to a high wage law will the country, and in this | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
journey we will always support of vulnerable people and make sure they | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
have a safe hall to live in. The whole House should be supporting | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
this but instead the party opposite result of their favourite tactic of | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
scaremongering for a political headline. It is time to stop that | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
kind of poor politics and time to stop playing politics with the lives | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
of vulnerable people. While we are helping working to provide the | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
support they need and deserve and we will provide. Can I remind | :04:05. | :04:11. | |
honourable members there will be speech limit of six minutes. I rise | :04:12. | :04:21. | |
to support the motion in the name of the shadow front bench. The starting | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
point regarding issues surrounding housing benefit was a decision made | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
a couple of months ago at the legislative committee to freeze | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
housing benefit for four years. Once again a decision has been taken by a | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
delegated legislative committee that should have been made and debated in | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
this House and I am glad to see the Independent newspaper has started to | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
highlight that mechanism that the Government are doing and bringing | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
its most damaging policies that affect the country. I represent a | :04:54. | :05:01. | |
constituency with 40% of homes are in the social rented sector and 10% | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
in the private rented sector, so any changes in housing benefit will have | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
an impact. What has been more startling in the proposed changes | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
from the Government if they have not produced any statistics on the | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
number of housing benefit claimants who receive this benefit to pay for | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
supported accommodation. They are proposing to cap the more benefit | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
without low knowledge of how this affects those in sheltered | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
accommodation. There are no statistics available for the number | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
of residents in sheltered housing in receipt of full or partial housing | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
benefit. The Government was asked for the thrill figures for the | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
councils in England who participate in such a scheme and they answered | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
they do not hold this information. This information should be available | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
through the evidence review commission and the Department for | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
Work Pensions. If the Government don't know the impact on why make | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
the change? This Tory Government must halt their continued assault on | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
housing benefit in order to ensure those who supported housing are not | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
literally left out in the cold. Supportive housing provides a vital | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
help to tens of thousands of people and plays a crucial role in securing | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
a safe home and supports people to live independently. Supportive | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
housing provides support for older people to maintain independent | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
lives, provide emergency refuge for victims of domestic violence, | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
helping stabilise their lives and to engage with other services they | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
require. Supportive housing providers work with homeless people | :06:51. | :06:59. | |
with complex needs and help them make the transition from life on the | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
streets to a set of home, education, training and employment. In my | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
constituency accurately what the charity whose support military | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
veterans who are homeless, who have struggled to meet the challenge of | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
civilian life, having served in our Armed Forces. Supportive housing | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
assist people with mental health needs to support the life and live | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
more independently, supports people with learning disabilities in the | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
long supplies independent living and exercise more choice and control | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
over their lives. The stark reality is any change to housing benefit and | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
undermine the ability of such tenants to pay the rent, thereby | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
putting their home at risk, threatening physical and mental | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
well-being, as well as posing a threat to the financial stability | :07:48. | :07:48. | |
housing associations. Single people under 35 will lose out | :07:49. | :08:02. | |
as well. The Institute for Fiscal Studies concluded that the savings | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
arising out of this measure would be short-term and small. The longer | :08:08. | :08:15. | |
term impact is expected to be more significant of applied to all social | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
tenants. Housing benefits would be cut by 1.1 billion. With 800,000 | :08:21. | :08:29. | |
households would lose an average of ?1300 a year. An insider housing | :08:30. | :08:37. | |
article from the 1st of January this year said that 95% of supported | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
housing applicants would be forced to close the schemes. They pointed | :08:44. | :08:54. | |
to the potential financial impact based on a small-scale piece of | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
research with its members in the weeks since the Autumn Statement. | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
The proposed changes would have a devastating effect on future | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
provision of refuge accommodation in Scotland. It is the ownership of the | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
housing associations and local authorities. LHA Rates do not take | :09:13. | :09:23. | |
on the extra cost from landlords and the associated costs. There are | :09:24. | :09:33. | |
additional costs for refuge for women and children escaping domestic | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
violence. There are added cost because of the cases nature of the | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
situation. There are also variable lengths of stay and rapid turnover. | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
That is a need for increased safety and security measures and the | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
provision of furniture and equipment. The role/communal rooms | :09:52. | :10:01. | |
for counselling and rooms for children. It was found that in all | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
cases, the service charge costs are significantly higher than the | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
current rate. One rural area, linked to a in the area, would result in an | :10:13. | :10:20. | |
annual loss of ?5,800 for a two-bedroom refuge flat. In another | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
urban area, the loss for a one-bedroom flat would be ?7,100. | :10:26. | :10:33. | |
Easy immediate action an urban area, the loss is ?11,600 every year. In | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
each case, the financial cost could be multiplied by the number of | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
refuge spaces. Without the existing level of housing benefit to cover | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
costs, many of these refuges would be forced to close. It is estimated | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
that 62% of housing association residents require assistance to pay | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
rent. You make an important point about protecting refuges. Is it not | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
the case that in Scotland, housing is devolved the host Scottish Common | :11:10. | :11:20. | |
protects general stock, funds new combination. We need to demolition | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
of housing benefit to square the circle. I do agree with that. It is | :11:25. | :11:32. | |
something that the Scottish National party are pursuing is the fool the | :11:33. | :11:41. | |
evolving of housing benefit. The proposed change to the under 35 she | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
opposing rate would see younger people struggling to pay their rent | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
and seek policewomen under the age of 35 at much greater risk of being | :11:50. | :11:58. | |
unable to pay. The single person aged under 35 relying on housing | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
benefit would face a weekly shop feel of ?323 a year. This would | :12:04. | :12:12. | |
translate into a rental loss of ?2.8 million per year for housing | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
associations in Scotland. The housing association also comment | :12:19. | :12:20. | |
that this is a conservative estimate, as of August of last year, | :12:21. | :12:33. | |
they are already 67,400 claimants in Scotland to our under the age of 35. | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
If women under the age of 35 are unable to access accommodation or | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
move into the Roman tendency, it is effectively preventing them from | :12:46. | :12:54. | |
leaving an abuse of partnership. In 2014-2015, the eatery and had the | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
highest range of domestic abuse recorded by Polly Scotland. -- the | :13:00. | :13:12. | |
herd. Police Scotland. Would he agree that issues of universal | :13:13. | :13:25. | |
credit the split is compounding the action by not having a refuge to go | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
to? That combines the original error. Discretionary housing | :13:30. | :13:44. | |
payments bring up the gap of LHA rentals are suddenly not enough in | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
these tough Financial Times. A discretionary housing payment should | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
be made available to local authorities. This type of | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
discretionary funding is far too insecure and uncertainty funding | :13:59. | :14:07. | |
mechanism to be able to maintain specialised accommodation, such as | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
refuge accommodation. This could also create a postcode lottery. It | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
could also keep a great deal of stress and worry for applicants, | :14:20. | :14:21. | |
wondering if they would be successful or not. It would split up | :14:22. | :14:29. | |
particular barriers for women and children subject to domestic abuse. | :14:30. | :14:37. | |
In 2013, there was a commitment to petite accommodation from any | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
unintended consequences from welfare reform. In order to ensure such | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
fatal accommodation as predicted, the United Kingdom government must | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
commit to exempting refuges from the spending cuts. What will be included | :14:53. | :15:03. | |
in this is still to be decided. The future of the claimant may be even | :15:04. | :15:12. | |
stretch further, if there are growing numbers. The changes should | :15:13. | :15:21. | |
not go ahead and we need the support for those who need it most to how a | :15:22. | :15:29. | |
roof over their head. The prevents people who most need help from | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
either seeking been able to get hold of it. It could see many at risk | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
individuals not receiving the support they need from the | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
residential tenants. The Scottish Federation of Housing Association | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
says the uncertainty of the allocation of the grants mean that | :15:48. | :15:56. | |
many will be unable to take up the accommodation that the need. This | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
could lead to a vicious cycle of tenants not accessing the refuge | :16:03. | :16:11. | |
property. I thank him for giving way it one more time. Is it not contrary | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
to see that we will protect the most vulnerable by providing additional | :16:17. | :16:29. | |
DHP? Schuler mini to make these people exempt from the proposals. I | :16:30. | :16:39. | |
agree. It is interesting from the answer the minister gave to the | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
Labour front that was no mention of the additional costs applying to the | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
health service or other social services. There could be a higher | :16:49. | :16:58. | |
cost in future. These proposed cuts come in the context of additional | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
conservative restrictions to housing benefit to some of the most | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
disadvantaged people in society. The Chancellor announced the removal of | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
entitlement of housing benefit from universal credit for young people | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
aged 18-21 years old, with the odd exception. The rationale was to | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
ensure that young people on the benefits system face the same | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
situation as young people who work and may not be able to afford their | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
own home. The measures set to receive ?40 million by the next | :17:36. | :17:42. | |
decade. Certain young people will be exempt, including vulnerable young | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
people, those who may not be able to return home to live with parents and | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
those who have been in work for six months prior to making a claim. | :17:52. | :17:58. | |
Organisation such as shelter and centrepoint said this would have a | :17:59. | :18:06. | |
huge impact on 18-21 -year-olds. The are actively lobbying against the | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
removal is what they describe as an essential safety net which can offer | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
a lifeline to young people. It is only the full power of social | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
security that we can fully protect individuals from future housing | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
benefit cuts. In Scotland, the Smith commission recommended the polls | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
over discretionary housing payment should be left to the Scottish | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
Parliament. Legislation has changed so DHP that can be paid in | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
exceptional circumstances. The commission also recommended that the | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
Scottish Parliament had the power to VB housing costs with regard to | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
universal credit. It would give Scottish ministers powers to the ADB | :18:54. | :19:02. | |
amount of universal credit. This would be subject to discussion with | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
the Secretary of State with regard to practicality. This is needed to | :19:06. | :19:13. | |
protect people against the impact of bedroom tax. I am proud to represent | :19:14. | :19:23. | |
a constituency rich in the study of helping and championing their less | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
fortunate. I oppose those guilty of exploitation. We recently | :19:31. | :19:45. | |
commemorated the centenary of a great local social justice seeker. | :19:46. | :19:53. | |
It might have been one century ago, but we have come full circle, as | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
exploitation is one of the most basic human needs, shelter and the | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
history of the family is once more a key issue in this parliament. That | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
is why I will be voting for this motion today. Thank you, Madam | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
Deputy Speaker. I would put on record my support for the one-year | :20:18. | :20:25. | |
moratorium. This demonstrates that the government is about listening | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
and taking on board what is said from the key stake holders. | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
Government is about matching policy principle and social equity with | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
practical policy implementation. What we see from the Labour Party is | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
the usual hysterical hand-waving, working with people in the housing | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
sector to steal Monger and freight in the most vulnerable of tenants. | :20:55. | :21:04. | |
But the question has to be, clear as the Labour Party policy on this? | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
Previously coherence and the comprehensive costing? Where is the | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
alternative? It is not clear. This is a party who voted against every | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
single will fear of change we need in the last parliament. They allowed | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
housing benefit to reach 140,000 for a single year. The saw a 46% rise in | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
housing benefit. They consign millions of families to welfare | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
dependency and director number of children in wreck house dashing | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
workless house walls. Members opposite voted on the recent | :21:42. | :21:51. | |
housing bill that would see higher earners in Brenda McCall | :21:52. | :22:00. | |
associations paying more to support those in this housing. How can it be | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
fairly working families give a direct payment effectively to other | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
people in social housing that are not working often? That cannot be | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
fair. We have to deal with the issue and welfare dependency. I will not | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
give way. Why can that be fair? As my honourable friend for Solihull | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
said, these are difficult decisions. In the short term, they would | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
deliver to ?40 million in savings. The Institute for Fiscal Studies | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
says that in long-term, 1.1 billion pounds. We have to do it, giving the | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
fiscal inheritance that we have before us. Now the Government has a | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
responsibility and a mandate from the people of this country to | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
deliver on welfare reform. If honourable members... The member for | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
Nottingham East is now not in his place, but if they really believed, | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
after reading the focus group, that the Labour Party will be trusted on | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
the economy and particularly welfare with the policies that they are | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
pursuing... The right honourable member knows that this is the case. | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
They are completely wrong and they have to understand that completely | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
opposing everything the Government does on welfare reform in favour of | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
more spending, more tax and more debt will never deliver them a | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
majority Labour Government again. Can I just say to housing | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
associations very gently, the 1% cut in rent will have a direct impact on | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
all their tenants in general needs. We will see a 12% reduction in | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
average rent by the end of this Parliament. We do spend ?13 billion | :23:32. | :23:42. | |
per year for housing associations to discharge their duties to house | :23:43. | :23:44. | |
people. They have to raise their game and meet the challenge. It is | :23:45. | :23:52. | |
not often commented upon, but housing associations are not subject | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
to the Freedom of Information Act. We need to see that they are as | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
efficient as they can possibly be. They are very efficient when it | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
comes to campaigning against the Government but not swordfish and on | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
resource allocations and delivering front-line... I give way. On that | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
very point, does he agree that in the last five years, we have | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
actually seen large sectors in the public sector stepping up to the | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
plate, delivering more for less, executing changes that do save the | :24:23. | :24:25. | |
taxpayer money and help the public finances? This is something housing | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
associations should be able to follow. I agree. We will see an | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
impact assessment and we will see an evidence -based review across the | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
whole of the assisted and supported housing regime. We do not know what | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
the final decision will be at the end of this and it really is for | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
local housing associations to stop complaining and work with planners, | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
work with developers and other key partners in the National Health | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
Service. I am sorry, I would love to, I have not got time. In order to | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
deliver the projects that they want to deliver. I am not wholly | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
supportive of the Government on this and I tell you why. There has to be | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
a comprehensive and holistic approach to marrying the crisis, the | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
demographic time bomb that we have of older people, of acute social | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
care and Acute Hospital care. We have to reduce those numbers and we | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
have to use the tax system. I want, I am afraid. The honourable ladies | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
not taking the end but I have no time. We must use the tax system and | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
the expertise we already have in order to deliver that. To deliver | :25:36. | :25:43. | |
good adult social care and also care for women, for instance, who have | :25:44. | :25:45. | |
been subject to domestic abuse. But as massive and we have that. I | :25:46. | :25:54. | |
mentioned the discretionary housing payments earlier as well, which will | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
assist directly the tenants. Incidentally, talking about the | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
spare room subsidy, those were payments not always drawn down | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
because of inefficiency in local authorities, often Labour Party | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
once. I would say to the front bench, it is a fair point that the | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
opposition spokesman makes. We need further clarity. It cannot be the | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
will of the Government to make it more difficult for us to deliver | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
more extra care facilities. We do not want to see non-viable projects | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
going forward. That is why it is important that the Treasury, the | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
Department for Work and Pensions and DDC LG work together to get round | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
the table and try and work out how we can do this. But we have got a | :26:41. | :26:48. | |
duty and responsibility to deal with the fiscal inheritance in terms of | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
welfare spending being out of control. But we must balance that | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
with practical, pragmatic solutions which deliver adult social care and | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
helps the most vulnerable people in society, for whom we all care. We | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
all care about them. Fairness and equity is important. But if we | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
demanded tax revenue from our constituents, we must deliver value | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
for money and that is why I will not support the Labour Party tonight and | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
I will support the Government. Madam Deputy Speaker, we are here today | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
for one of two reasons. Either the Government set out as a matter of | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
deliberate Holocene to bring about the closure of special supported | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
housing or they were not bothered whether these housing units closed. | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
This is an unintended consequence of a wider policy about changes to | :27:43. | :27:49. | |
housing benefit, which we got here to deal with today because he | :27:50. | :27:51. | |
Government did not do a proper impact assessment at the beginning | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
of the policy. We should have had that before we began the process, | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
not when concerns have been raised, quite rightly, up and down the | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
country about the potential impact. So I actually welcome what the | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
Minister has said today, that a proper review will be carried out | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
and the Government will not simply carry on with this policy and the | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
potential consequences it can bring about. So, when we look at this, and | :28:14. | :28:22. | |
members opposite have said that there has been political point | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
scoring and scaremongering by those of us on the side and by the Housing | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
Association movement in general. It is not true. When I get rung up by | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
Tony Stacey, the respected Chief Executive of South Yorkshire Housing | :28:38. | :28:39. | |
Association, widely respected people on both sides of the House, for the | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
association itself and his personal commitment, he says the impact of | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
these measures will be a ?2.8 million reduction in the income that | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
association out of a ?20 million budget. That is a matter of major | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
concern. That would lead to the closure of around 1000 places of | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
supported housing and the Association, because of the | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
financial impact, would have to start acting on those closures | :29:10. | :29:12. | |
within the next few months, not wait for 2018. That is not | :29:13. | :29:18. | |
scaremongering. That is financial reality for an association having to | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
balance its books over that period of time. That is why we're here to | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
beating the issue today. I have just one or two questions now. The | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
Minister talked about a review by the end of March. That is a review, | :29:32. | :29:39. | |
Wembley conclusion be reached so that there is only certainty for | :29:40. | :29:41. | |
associations and others, including local councils, about the impact of | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
these measures of the changed measures which hopefully the | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
Government will bring in? And bringing about that review and | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
coming to a conclusion, will the Government top not merely to the | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
National Housing Act federation, but the Local Government Association as | :30:02. | :30:03. | |
well because there are voluntary schemes involved also. All relevant | :30:04. | :30:10. | |
parties should be consulted. Can he give an indication as to when | :30:11. | :30:12. | |
conclusions will be breached and certainty can be brought about? | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
Secondly, in terms of the changes for new tenants which urges are | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
coming in April 2016, will those now be postponed? Or are we going to see | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
new tenancies created in 2016 on the basis of the changes that are | :30:30. | :30:31. | |
proposed at present before the review? I hope the Minister will | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
indicate that no changes will come in and the full costs of supported | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
housing will be covered through housing benefit for new tenancies | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
from April 2016 until this review has concluded. And finally, I | :30:46. | :30:52. | |
welcome what the Minister said about the rate increases for supported | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
housing, that the 1% reduction will not go ahead next year we'll be | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
viewed as being undertaken. Does that mean that the changes in the | :31:03. | :31:09. | |
budget will not be implemented and D 1% reduction will not now happened? | :31:10. | :31:18. | |
Or will read simply be frozen? There is quite a big difference for | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
associations. Even the red changes without housing benefit changes have | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
an impact on social housing. Can we have clarification on that? I | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
welcome the direction the Government seems to be moving in, in a more | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
realistic is Asian. Maybe the Executive committee will look at | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
this as well. I hope the Minister will fully consult and take on the | :31:40. | :31:41. | |
concerns that the Housing Association movement and local | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
councils have. None of us want to see these units close. Thank you for | :31:45. | :31:52. | |
calling me in on this debate. I put on record that I also welcome the | :31:53. | :31:59. | |
announcement on the 1%. We spend more on family benefits in Britain | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
than we do in Germany, France or Sweden and is no doubt that social | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
housing is invaluable for hundreds of thousands of in this country who | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
need help in getting accommodation. But it cannot be right to continue | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
to subsidise people to live in houses that are bigger than they | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
need whilst there are 375,000 families living in overcrowded | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
conditions. Nor can it be right to subsidise people to live in houses | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
that are out of reach or unaffordable for hard-working | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
taxpayers. Page 97 of Labour's 2009 budget summarise the problem. | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
Indications are that some claimants might be able to afford | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
accommodation that is out of reach of working families on low incomes. | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
Other more, costs of housing benefit have risen above inflation despite | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
static caseloads. In fact, between 1999 in 2010, the cost of housing | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
benefit rose by 46% in real terms, reaching 21 billion. Housing benefit | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
was truly out-of-control, with the maximum housing benefit award | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
reaching over ?100,000 per year. Even after the benefit cap, people | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
can receive support up to meet of ?20,000 per year. What with the | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
working family, paying tax, half 2am to enter a ?20,000 a year rent? 60, | :33:15. | :33:29. | |
70, ?80,000 per year. Rents were markedly higher on average than a | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
like-for-like property in the private sector. This is clearly | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
unsustainable and helped fuel the something for nothing culture that | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
provided under 13 years of Labour. 1.4 million people spent most of the | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
previous decade trapped on out of work benefits while the number of | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
households were not member has ever worked doubled under Labour. The | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
announcements made in the Autumn Statement followed on from reforms | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
in the last Parliament to better align the rules between social and | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
private landlords, ensuring fairness between those receiving housing | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
benefits and hard-working taxpayers who have to pay for it. Those who | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
oppose making difficult decisions on welfare must say what they would | :34:10. | :34:16. | |
cut... I will not give way. Those who oppose making difficult | :34:17. | :34:18. | |
decisions on welfare must say what they would cut or what taxes we | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
would put up to pay for it. Though it would seem for some of the | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
current revision 's office at that Labour and their leaders have not | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
learned their lessons of the past. Their plans to spend more, borrow | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
more and taxed more and exactly what got us in the mess in the first | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
place. As Labour's great recession showed, it is working people and | :34:42. | :34:43. | |
their families who end up paying the price for that. When we came into | :34:44. | :34:50. | |
Government in 2002, the Government was borrowing over 150 billion year. | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
One in ?4 spent by the then Labour Government was borrowed. | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
Unemployment increased by nearly 500000 and Britain suffer the | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
deepest recession since the war and had the second bigger structural | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
deficit of any major economy. We have cut the deficit in half and are | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
working to cut the deficit again by 2020. It is a fundamental truth that | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
without saying public finances, there is no economic security for | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
working families and we cannot pay for hospitals, schools, people and | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
housing we rely on. It is our long-term economic plan that will | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
turn us into a high wage, low tax, low welfare and economy. The Labour | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
Party are out of touch with hard-working people. They are out of | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
touch and out of ideas on welfare. Based on this debate, they will be | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
felt long time. -- and they will be for a long time. | :35:49. | :35:56. | |
She was about the the house a fairly easy with to find out what we are | :35:57. | :36:03. | |
talking about, it is about the homeless services and the unintended | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
consequences of a cap on housing benefit. The potential catastrophic | :36:08. | :36:15. | |
outcome for people in specialist housing, in homelessness | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
arrangements, specialist schemes for dependent drinkers, for example the | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
catastrophic outcome these changes will make to their rents, to their | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
circumstances and indeed to the organisations that seek to house | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
them and provide services for them, that is what this debate is about | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
this afternoon and we have to concentrate on that. I must say I | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
was remarkably disappointed by the fact free bluster from the Minister | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
of this it about this particular issue. I suppose one can only | :36:47. | :36:56. | |
forgive the fact free bluster on the basis that there was no impact | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
assessment for these changes and therefore presumably if the Minister | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
is coming here today not armed with an impact assessment he has not | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
really got any facts to defend his side of the argument in the first | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
place. Taiwan to do is provide little impact assessment of my own | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
as far as this is concerned, I want to base that on an organisation | :37:17. | :37:23. | |
based in my constituency that provide services for homeless | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
people, for people with severe and injuring mental health problems, | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
drinkers and people with alcohol problems, mental health substance | :37:36. | :37:45. | |
misuse Robins, former offenders. The members opposite playing with their | :37:46. | :37:47. | |
phones, they might put them to better use by putting it on this | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
website. Any dispute about who cares in this debate, it is certainly the | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
case that the Society of Saint James does care. It cares deeply about all | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
these people they are trying to houses and help and they assessed | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
either in housing or helping some 2500 people. They have looked that | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
the impact of these changes on their various housing schemes across South | :38:15. | :38:21. | |
Hampshire and their calculation is that the average reduction in rent | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
will be 40% across the 300 odd people that are actually housed at | :38:26. | :38:32. | |
the one time but that of course doesn't mean it does not roll onto | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
the wider number of people in various schemes. They calculate that | :38:37. | :38:47. | |
as a sum of ?1.03 million per year. That quite simply and | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
straightforwardly means that all those schemes are under risk because | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
the Society of Saint James cannot fund those properly over the next | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
period. It has been said, of course that while the discussion of the | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
housing payment scheme is coming to help in the longer term, but the | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
discussion of the -- discretionary housing scheme covers temporary | :39:12. | :39:13. | |
situations and cannot give long-term revenue security the organisations | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
need to plan their future housing needs. Will he not agree with me | :39:18. | :39:25. | |
that the discretionary housing fund is already barely covering the | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
amount of people applying for it giving the impact of the bedroom tax | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
and a further attempt to stretch that and it is already not going far | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
enough. That was an important point, I was perhaps being a little kind to | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
the housing discretionary fund inasmuch it is having so many things | :39:43. | :39:49. | |
poured into it. The chances of the fund having a material impact on a | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
limited basis in this field looks to be fairly low. Of course, the other | :39:54. | :40:00. | |
question in terms of the Society of Saint James is what happens with new | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
schemes that are developing in the future and they have recently | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
received substantial capital donations to develop new property | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
and extend their services. There is no chance those sort of schemes can | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
now go ahead because there is no prospect of those schemes being | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
funded properly once they have been built and indeed it would be deeply | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
irresponsible for that society. I have got one experience already, | :40:27. | :40:34. | |
Alina housing has stopped four extra schemes totalling 500 units because | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
of the impact alone on those schemes, it is 2.3 million deficit. | :40:40. | :40:47. | |
That underlines very powerfully the importance of understanding just how | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
early it is that organisations such as the Society of Saint James and | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
organisations in her constituency are having to take decisions about | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
what they are doing in the future. In that context, a moratorium for a | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
year will not make any difference to those particular decision because it | :41:06. | :41:07. | |
is the question of long-term security of revenue that those | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
schemes are concerned about. And it is indeed very likely and certainly | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
not scaremongering that those schemes will disappear now, not in | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
the future and the whole system will be poorer as a result. Perhaps the | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
question in my mind boils down to this, as far as my question, my | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
central question to the ministers concerned, if he has things he wants | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
to do about putting this particular problem right, whether he thinks in | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
retrospect that this was a problem not of his own making because he | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
doesn't notice it arriving when he came from the Treasury and was only | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
told when it was too late for him to do anything about it, whether indeed | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
he did something about it in the first place and the Treasury ignored | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
him, either way there is an issue that the Minister has two address | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
right now as far as these questions are concerned. My question to the | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
Minister is, if we could impact assessments into the context of the | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
organisations at the heart of the process of clearing in this | :42:18. | :42:19. | |
particular area and at the heart of the process, not only of caring for | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
this area but actually saving the state large amounts of future public | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
expenditure in terms of keeping such people they are caring for and | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
assisting out of prisons and psychiatric institutions and | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
emergency services by securing the accommodation in the community, what | :42:40. | :42:46. | |
is the Minister going to do right now that specifically puts the | :42:47. | :42:48. | |
problem right for the Society of Saint James in Southampton and if | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
the minister does not have an answer for that, it seems to me he has a | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
great deal of thinking to do about the wider issue as a whole. Those | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
are the sort of organisations up and down the country, not local | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
authority organisations, voluntary organisations that are involved in | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
these issues, who now find themselves simply hold below the | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
water line. Unless the Minister can come up urgently with either a patch | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
or a new vote, I'm afraid that is what the reality of the situation | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
will be over the next period and I urge the Minister to take action at | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
the earliest possible opportunity to ensure that such important | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
organisations, as the Society of Saint James, can continue the good | :43:38. | :43:38. | |
work in future. I welcome the opportunity to talk | :43:39. | :43:48. | |
about this important issue because I am concerned, especially by the | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
shadow Housing Minister and members opposite that there is confusion | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
between the difference between general needs housing and supported | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
housing because currently there is no legislation going through that | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
will cap housing benefit in supported housing. There is an | :44:02. | :44:09. | |
evidence review being conducted and the last speaker talked about not | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
having an impact assessment but that is exactly what is happening and it | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
is nothing... Either members opposite do not understand the | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
difference, they are scaremongering. I am a big supporter of supported | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
housing because when I was a Cabinet member or housing in the new unitary | :44:27. | :44:29. | |
authority, I had to live under the last Labour government and let me to | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
you, funding supported housing then was difficult because of the | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
year-on-year cuts to our supporting housing grant. We had supported | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
housing were refunded sheltered housing blocks both in our own stock | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
but also through housing associations and also through | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
charities. We had to dip in and find the difference between those cuts | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
and funding our sheltered housing services. The same for our learning | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
disability clients, who were funded in supported housing houses because | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
let's not pretend that the members opposite, when they were in | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
government were not cutting the amount of money there too. I was | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
also up until recently the trustee of a treasure take which really | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
helps people who have hit rock bottom to alcohol and drug | :45:20. | :45:28. | |
dependency -- treasurer. They are supported not just through rehab but | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
also gaining independence and be able to sustain themselves on their | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
own long-term and supported housing benefit has a huge impact. Housing | :45:40. | :45:48. | |
benefit is being capped, supported housing, there is currently no | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
change, it is under review. Members opposite need to be clear about | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
that, I think the announcement that the housing minister made today that | :45:59. | :46:06. | |
the 1% reduction in social events won't supply to housing for another | :46:07. | :46:16. | |
year has to be welcomed. Let's look at the reasons of why we have to cap | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
housing benefit, it is not just because of the economy, it is | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
because of the impact it has had in constituencies such as mine. I have | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
the town of New Haven in my constituency which is in the same | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
LAK rate as Brighton and Hove, so it has a much higher than the rest of | :46:32. | :46:40. | |
East Sussex. As a result, I know the Shadow Minister doesn't want to | :46:41. | :46:43. | |
listen to this, it is artificially pushing up private rented rates for | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
the ordinary person who is not on housing benefit. They cannot afford | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
to stay in New Haven was the only people who can are those on general | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
needs housing benefit and that has artificially increased the rental | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
market. It has not helped young families in my constituency. The | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
members opposite do not want to cap general needs housing benefit, then | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
how will be tackled the welfare bill that they are so proud to say they | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
would be able to manage so much better than the government? Is it | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
through reducing money on the NHS? Is it by reducing money on schools? | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
Is it by reducing money on the police service or the Armed Forces? | :47:26. | :47:32. | |
They have to make a decision, by putting up taxes instead. They had | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
to be honest with the British public in how they would manage this. Just | :47:36. | :47:41. | |
to conclude because I know time is tight, I asked the housing minister | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
because I am a passionate supporter of supported housing, in the year | :47:47. | :47:49. | |
review that is taking place, if you would come to my constituency to New | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
Haven where we heard just yesterday that money is secure for that | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
housing placement where young people who have had a really rough start in | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
life are being able to have a secure tenancy for a period of time, able | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
to gains kills to get into the workforce, if you would come to meet | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
with those young people and see the difference that supported housing is | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
making for them. They are not under threat from the housing benefit cap | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
because it is not relevant at the moment for supported housing and I | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
will not be supporting members opposite, ER misleading and | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
scaremongering the most vulnerable people in our society and I will not | :48:31. | :48:32. | |
support the motion. The confusion and a lack of clarity | :48:33. | :48:41. | |
around the issue of supported accommodation will have a | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
devastating effect on my constituency. It is curtailing | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
homelessness prevention strategy and already jeopardising new extra care | :48:52. | :48:53. | |
housing developments. I will give you an example, in Wigan, and either | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
500 extra units of extra care housing has been identified to meet | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
housing needs and to reduce the reliance on very expensive | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
residential care facilities and also reduce future demands on the health | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
service. This will allow people to live independently in the community | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
for much longer and I think we would all agree that is a great outcome | :49:18. | :49:20. | |
for the individual, the family, the local authority and the NHS. | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
However, two years ago, work started on implementing our strategy in a | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
scheme comprising 130 flats and bungalows with community facilities | :49:34. | :49:40. | |
at a site. Apart there was selected, Taurus, this key mosque in sight -- | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
design, consulted upon, planning permission obtained and funding | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
obtained and the valuable site was transferred at a nominal cost with | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
the support of all and the start date was imminent. I say was because | :49:53. | :50:00. | |
with this change to the rate, this has now installed. A ?30 million | :50:01. | :50:07. | |
project that we desperately need has stalled -- 13 million. This is not | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
just the warming project under threat. 80 units in partnership with | :50:13. | :50:20. | |
arena. What about those projects in the process of being built? Wigan | :50:21. | :50:29. | |
only homes have 25 units being built, 39 units of sheltered plus | :50:30. | :50:36. | |
scheme. The financial projections of both of these schemes do not know | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
and up unless the government accept this type of accommodation. I will | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
give some examples of how the future schemes are threatened and how there | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
will not be the houses for people to move into the community, but what | :50:49. | :50:51. | |
about our existing provision? I have been contacted about this. | :50:52. | :51:02. | |
Across the borough, there is approximately 400 or put these | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
providing homes for people with longer term care and support needs. | :51:08. | :51:10. | |
This ranges from learning disabilities to autism. These are | :51:11. | :51:16. | |
people unable to live and become a valuable part of the community. And | :51:17. | :51:23. | |
the security and the ability of others to move into this type of | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
accommodation is under threat due to the high rent and support charges | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
that only digitally specialist nature of the accommodation. -- due | :51:31. | :51:39. | |
to the specialist nature. One mother contacted the homes company about | :51:40. | :51:42. | |
hearts severely autistic son and said, will I have to have him in the | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
home permanently for ever? She came with scratches all down her arms | :51:47. | :51:54. | |
where he had attacked her. With the honourable member recognise a case | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
where a 19-year-old with serious mental health problems, serious | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
autism, topped them from a Bridgen St Helens from threatening to commit | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
suicide, waiting for a bed, mental health bed, and the only bed that | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
was able to be offered to him is in France or Germany. I wrote to the | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
Minister and I am waiting for a response. What, but can be given to | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
that young man and his parents? I thank the honourable member for that | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
intervention. I agree. There is not much comfort for the parents of | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
young people in many constituencies who are already caring for them with | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
severe autism and health disabilities. These people find that | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
their choices are being limited into where the best place for the sons | :52:47. | :52:56. | |
and daughters are. And I writ on to the price that the people who are | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
homeless or fleeing domestic violence will pay. 35 units of | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
disbursed accommodation will be impacted immediately because they | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
are in their nature short-term. They are specifically for single people, | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
saving them from going into hostels, which are not always the appropriate | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
environment. The young man that came to see me, quite a while ago now, | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
his parents had thrown him out when they found out he was gay. They had | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
also very kindly emptied his bank account out at that time as well. | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
All I could find for him was the local Salvation Army hostel, which | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
was not a safe place for him at that time. There is a father 100 units of | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
homelessness accommodation ranging from hostels to young mum and baby | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
units that are threatened. And perhaps, Madam Deputy is bigger, I | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
can mention just one of these units. It is a self-contained flat within a | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
block. Young mums aged 16-25 and their babies are supported for a | :53:57. | :53:58. | |
maximum of two Mac years to live independent lives. They learn from | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
each other and live in a safe environment. They leave with | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
confidence and skills to live in the community and be excellent role | :54:09. | :54:15. | |
models and providers and parents for their children. How can we threaten | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
this type of service and what will the cost be, both human and | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
financial? There are also the women's refuges that provide a safe | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
haven for those that have suffered emotional abuse but also the | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
activities that provide life and family skills. And the Government | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
solution to this is discretionary housing payments. That is not a | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
resolution. It is an excuse to continue with an ill thought out | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
policy. Now hosting provider can forecast finances with any degree of | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
accuracy when your client base has to rely on cash limited Eamonn | :54:50. | :54:57. | |
Holmes -- cash limited payments at discretion. And vulnerable people, | :54:58. | :55:04. | |
how can we assist them to apply for these payments and at what cost all | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
that be? How many people will deter from living independently? The | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
policies not thought through and I welcome the announcement that there | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
will be a review of it as it stands. But, as it stands, it will affect | :55:18. | :55:24. | |
the most vulnerable, it will affect their families and those charged | :55:25. | :55:27. | |
with making sure the best quality of life is available for all. The old, | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
the ill, those at risk. Anyone who is vulnerable at any stage of their | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
life. And it will end with increased costs and a burden on other services | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
like the NHS. I urge the Minister to listen and provide the clarity that | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
is needed soon. Not to rely on discretionary payments so that my | :55:50. | :55:51. | |
constituents and others across the country can have a home that best | :55:52. | :55:58. | |
suits their needs. The speech limit is now five minutes. Thank you. The | :55:59. | :56:05. | |
background to this debate is the deep changes in our society. A | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
growing population, and ageing population and more and more of our | :56:11. | :56:13. | |
constituents living with long-term disabilities and illnesses as a | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
result of medical advances. So, although... Not all, but many of the | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
speeches opposite have been rather simplistic. The situation is | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
incredibly complex. A wide range of our constituents live in supported | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
housing. The elderly, refugees, victims of domestic live in, people | :56:35. | :56:42. | |
living with mental health problems. -- domestic via a. Some will live in | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
these houses for a matter of months and others for practically the whole | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
lives. Members have outlined very passionately organisations in their | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
constituencies who work with those people. It is evident therefore that | :56:58. | :57:00. | |
we are going to need more of this sort of supported housing. And if | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
this is the case, we need to ask very honestly, is this accommodation | :57:07. | :57:14. | |
suitable? Are the services that go with it suitable? And is the | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
supported living getting the best value for taxpayers' money? Because | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
if it is not, it will be unsustainable in the long term and | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
in the end it will be those vulnerable in our societies and | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
communities who suffer. I very much welcome the fact that this is a | :57:34. | :57:36. | |
consultation. The Government is listening and we have seen that from | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
the one-year moratorium announced today. This debate will be part of | :57:40. | :57:47. | |
that and I know that there are representations from housing | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
associations. We have to talk about sustainability because, as my | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
honourable friend, who is not longer in his place, outlined, the housing | :57:59. | :58:06. | |
benefit bill increased by 46% between 1999 and 2010. This was not | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
a fair balance between those families living in social housing | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
and hard-working families who did not quite meet that threshold. We | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
have to have supported housing on a sustainable footing. This policy is | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
still being developed and with that in mind, I would be grateful if the | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
Minister would look very closely at the representations from my local | :58:27. | :58:33. | |
housing association, Progress Housing, which serves people all | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
over South Ribble but has refugees in other areas and supports people | :58:39. | :58:45. | |
in a wide range of difficulties. Madam Deputy Speaker, I take great | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
issue with some of the statements from the benches opposite that we on | :58:50. | :58:52. | |
this site do not care about the vulnerable in our society. It is | :58:53. | :58:55. | |
very easy to throw money at a problem and to have a quick fix. But | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
putting supported living on a long-term, sustainable basis after a | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
thorough consultation so that it works for everybody, not just now, | :59:05. | :59:08. | |
not just the next election, but for the next 20-30 years, that is a | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
clear plan of action, rather than criticism with no answers. Thank | :59:14. | :59:23. | |
you, Madam Deputy is bigger. Many of the contributions already made from | :59:24. | :59:26. | |
the side of the House, and they are happy to speak in the support of the | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
motion today. The mark of Savoy Society is that it looks its most | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
vulnerable. Yet here we have a Government seeking to remove some of | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
those support mechanisms from the most vulnerable in our supposedly | :59:40. | :59:46. | |
Savoy Society. -- civilised society. Does he agree that supported housing | :59:47. | :59:51. | |
provides support older people need to maintain and allows homeless | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
people with complex and multiple needs to help them make the | :59:56. | :59:58. | |
transition from life on the street are settled home, education, | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
training and employment? Surely any change to housing benefit could | :00:04. | :00:05. | |
undermine the ability of such tents to pay their rent and would affect | :00:06. | :00:10. | |
their mental and physical well-being. Thank you for that | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
intervention. I agree wholeheartedly. Not only does it | :00:15. | :00:21. | |
affect the individuals, but it will affect the organisations that | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
provide the services. And for what purpose is it? Is it to save money? | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
The Institute of fiscal sizes -- the Institute for Fiscal Studies says | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
that any saving would be small. There would be little savings to the | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
public horse but expenditure could rise as a result of the unintended | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
consequences of this pool a photo measure. This is a classic case of | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
robbing Peter to pay Paul. A small saving could be massively outweighed | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
by the cost associated with providing institutional care, | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
funding increase hospital stays and the increased cost of imprisonment. | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
This is the very definition of fiscal irresponsibility. Figures | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
from the Scottish Federation of Housing associations have identified | :01:12. | :01:13. | |
that associations in Scotland could potentially lose between five | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
million and ?40 million per year. This is unsustainable. -- ?40 | :01:20. | :01:29. | |
million. It will be to the closure of housing that supports the most | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
vulnerable in society. There will not be the security from | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
accommodation providers to continue even the current level of | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
specialised accommodation, let alone plan for additional provision in | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
years to come. I have a real concern about the effect of these changes on | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
vulnerable young people. In my own constituency, there is an | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
accommodation project. It has nine supported flats in West Lothian and | :01:54. | :01:55. | |
can accommodate up to 16 young people between the ages of 16-21. | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
The flats are fully furnished and most share accommodation. The aim of | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
the supported flat is to prepare young people for tenancy. When a | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
young person enjoys the supported flat service, they have a dedicated | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
support worker who will work with them to give personal and practical | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
support, helping them to have self-confidence and live | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
independently. Already the young people who are being supported on | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
experiencing a number of issues with the existing situation. The time it | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
takes to receive payments for benefits is a problem and it can | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
have an impact on young people living in the accommodation. Other | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
media concern is that there is no longer a seven-day run-on. If young | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
people after millimetre, the sign for the tenancy and cannot set of | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
utilities and apply for the social welfare fund for the most basic | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
necessities. That uncertainty as to what might come with reductions in | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
housing benefit can only exacerbate these issues, which are already | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
applying to them. It might even put his vocal support of accommodation | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
at risk. How will organisations such as those planned for the future when | :03:04. | :03:05. | |
faced with yet more funding challenges? Never comes one of the | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
more CDs of the unintended consequences, the impact on funding | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
for support accommodation, which puts people with substance abuse | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
problems. -- supports people. Many organisations are doing amazing | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
work, especially with ex-offenders, helping them to rebuild lives and | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
rejoin society. Funding for this accommodation, which faces cuts, is | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
intolerable. A number of young people, and leaving this | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
institution, will be dependent on the ... If these draconian proposals | :03:38. | :03:48. | |
are implemented. Your Mac does my honourable friend not agree that at | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
a cost of over ?40,000 a year in prison, this could be a totally | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
false economy? She makes a point very well. It is a | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
completely false economy and I believe it will cost the public | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
purse far more than the benefits they are trying to say. Again we | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
must look at the fiscal implications. A saving in housing | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
benefit means a lack of supported accommodation for young | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
ex-offenders. How many of these vulnerable young people will end up | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
back in prison at a higher cost to the public boss? -- purse? We have | :04:21. | :04:35. | |
to make sure at the very least supported accommodation is except | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
from these changes. We have had to mitigate the changes of the unfair | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
bedroom tax in Scotland. And it might be illegal, as we have held | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
today in the court case. Is the future going to be yet another | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
botched Tory attempt at saving moves an increased burden on to Holyrood? | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
Only with full power over our Social Security would be so protect those | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
people in need from these housing cuts. Thank you very much indeed, | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to follow the honourable | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
gentleman for Linlithgow and East Falkirk. I was I to say something | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
which I hope all members in the House will be able to agree upon. | :05:17. | :05:24. | |
Housing and home an important. -- and homes. The security of a roof | :05:25. | :05:34. | |
over your head, temporary or permanent, is important. For that | :05:35. | :05:43. | |
reason, I believe Labour's position today should be condemned because we | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
have heard precisely what we are used to hearing from the Labour | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
Party. And I have found this debate, Madam deputies bigger, slightly | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
annoying. -- Madam Deputy Speaker. Not that it has been tabled, this is | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
not an issue. If honourable members would just get a listen, they might | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
just hear something which would shed a bit of light on their prejudice. | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
I'm not annoyed by the fact this is being debated, this important issue | :06:17. | :06:23. | |
has been tabled, but by the order of smug hand-wringing which has come | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
from the party opposite and crocodile tears that they in | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
essence, as they have always tried to purport, have a monopoly on | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
caring. They believe that somehow or other we are the nasty bunch, that | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
we couldn't give a dam about anything. And we are not. As I said | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
in my intervention to the Shadow Minister, we all have constituents | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
who are in sheltered housing and we want to make sure the best provision | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
can be made for that. I say to the party opposite that there is nothing | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
kind or caring in trying to prop up an inflated and unsustainable | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
welfare system. That is the eternal cry of the party opposite whenever a | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
reform is met. Does the gentleman not agree that what has actually | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
been inflated is the ridiculous rents in many of the urban centres | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
in the UK and that is the private system, that is why housing benefit | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
is out of control in the first place, it is not the social sector. | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
I'm grateful to the honourable lady for making the argument as to why it | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
is important to have a cap on housing benefit. The absence of a | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
cap, of any control in housing benefit, has been the fuel of the | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
fire of those who have sought to ramp up their rents. Because if the | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
person is bottomless, if the pit is always gone to deliver the funding | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
for it, by definition, that provides the dynamic for the higher rents, so | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
the introduction of a cap, we believe on the side of the house, | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
will act as a brake on what was a runaway train. But it is the eternal | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
crime of many of the members opposite, it is the golden thread | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
which has run through their political approach, whenever there | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
is a reform in this area, the default position is no, we have | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
heard from many colleagues on the side of the house, not a single | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
reform to welfare has been supported by the party opposite. They have | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
learned no lessons from the general election of just last May. | :08:39. | :08:46. | |
These schemes have demonstrated clear success in providing a better | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
quality of life for delivering better social care and health | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
outcomes, to provide these schemes in the future with results in | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
greater pressures on both health and social care services as housing | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
providers will not be able to deliver good quality independent | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
living places and this will mean people will then go back to | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
residential centres and old folks homes, languishing in hospitals,. | :09:19. | :09:28. | |
The interventions are very long in the time-limited debate. The | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
honourable lady speaks with enormous passion. Let me say this to her. | :09:33. | :09:49. | |
What has added pressures is little certainty to those providers seeking | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
to make short, medium and longer term financial commitments has been | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
the panic driven shroud waving of the party opposite, trotting round | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
the country, desperately trying to stoke this up for party political | :10:07. | :10:14. | |
advantage. I can never resist the honourable lady from Birmingham | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
Yardley for having passion in this issue. It is not shroud waving, both | :10:18. | :10:30. | |
his government have made an exemption for this group and every | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
single one of the welfare reforms. We are asking for today is not a no | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
to the reform it is an for this group we are seeking. Is the | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
honourable lady will have heard, that was the point made by my right | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
honourable friend the Minister to gather the evidence to talk to | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
experts and, with a policy in June course and I would hope, in all | :10:59. | :11:00. | |
seriousness, that the honourable lady would roar some comfort and | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
satisfaction from that so she can put her shroud away, she can contain | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
herself for a few moments and the debate can go on. Just on the | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
subject of service providers, I have spoken to all of the housing | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
associations covering my constituency and I think their | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
response, I hope I will not be misquoted, is as follows colon | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
things change, systems and procedures change from time to time. | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
New policies usually present new challenges but the view in my | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
housing association is that we will meet them, we will reform, we will | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
change and recast what we do but the central core of our ethos and why we | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
are in business remains intact and that is a very important point to | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
make. The Shadow minister who is now not in his place, and I thought the | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
absolute brass neck to accuse my right honourable friend, the | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
Chancellor of putting politics before policy, well of his speech | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
did anything, it was precisely that. The crocodile tears of weaker for | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
these people who need the sort of homes, which we all recognise, but | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
then to drape it in the flag of party politics is shameful or stab | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
at the heart of what her Majesty 's government is trying to do is | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
fairness, equity and equality. It is right in my judgment that the social | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
sector of housing benefit should be capped to mirror that of local | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
authority level, the same rates as those in the private sector. The | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
reforms seek to align those two sectors and prevent private social | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
landlords from artificial rent inflation. We care on this side of | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
the house to get it right, we care about fairness for taxpayers, we | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
care about quality provision of housing. What we don't care for is | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
the shroud waving and the hand-wringing and the crocodile | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
tears of the party opposite. I'm afraid the honourable gentleman for | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
North Dorset exemplifies the same old Tories. I want to make it | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
perfectly clear at the start that I am a big fan of welfare reform, I | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
believe as we move to the second half of this decade, we do need an | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
active welfare system, however the difficulty I have with measures such | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
as the bedroom tax, the local housing allowance and caps on | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
housing benefit, is that I am not convinced they are genuine welfare | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
reforms. They ignore the supplying norms in housing, landlords and the | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
lack of specialist support of accommodation and we treat all | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
tenants as if their circumstances are the same. In fact, we simply as | :13:57. | :14:04. | |
board cuts from DWP to DC LT without any regard to the consequences. What | :14:05. | :14:18. | |
you will invite are a lot of families who will find themselves | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
destitute because they won't be able to pay the rents. That is a private | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
landlords chartered to make money. Almost everybody realises you cannot | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
have action on housing benefit and not have action on rents, it is | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
self-evident. We are having this debate today because those who are | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
the targets of this change are not the work-shy and the feckless. Too | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
many of them are bombed rubble people. -- vulnerable people. Many | :14:47. | :14:54. | |
people came into politics wanting to help. Elderly people, no longer fit | :14:55. | :15:02. | |
to call look after themselves, veterans, youngsters leaving care, | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
those fleeing domestic violence. The National Housing Federation claims | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
that the Chancellor's changes could cost some people up to ?60 per week, | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
and to force them to leave their accommodation and in some cases add | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
to the growing number of casualties sleeping on our streets, as the | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
homelessness crisis sweeps the country like a plague. The NHS also | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
speculate that it may lead to the closure of thousands of homes, the | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
kinds of places we are talking about our retirement homes, active elderly | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
establishments designed to improve the quality of life, supported | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
accommodation and temporary accommodation. Is that really the | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
kind of reform that the members opposite want to see? There is | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
already a 16,000 shortfall in demand for support of accommodation and | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
estimates say that it is likely to double by the end of this | :16:08. | :16:08. | |
Parliament. I had the privilege recently of | :16:09. | :16:17. | |
opening an extra care scheme and they are predicting that if the cap | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
goes ahead that residents there will have to pay an extra ?50 per week | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
which is completely unsustainable. I think we have heard from members | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
opposite that they have the same fears and there is a lot riding on | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
this review. What I want to say is that without exemption for those | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
with a clear learning disability who lives in supported accommodation, we | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
are about to witness a housing disaster for such people. After | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
years of talking about rights and independence, are we seriously going | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
to banish them to institutions and substandard care homes? Seven out of | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
ten people with a learning disability would prefer to live by | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
themselves or with friends rather than in a registered care home or | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
with their parents. Aren't they entitled to aspire to that? Aren't | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
they entitled to that degree of independence? Can the society, | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
whatever cuts we want to make, not afford to shore just a bit of | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
generosity to such people? How will the government ever succeed closing | :17:31. | :17:39. | |
places and deliver on NHS England's 2015 strategy, building the right | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
support, without a supported housing plan for those with learning | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
disabilities? And what about young people leaving care? How are they | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
going to make the first step on the ladder to independence? Vulnerable | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
young people, especially care leavers, should be excluded from the | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
under 35 is shared accommodation rule will stop we should hear that | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
today. I wonder if the Minister is now in a position to tell us when | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
the housing benefit regulations for those aged 18-21 will be published. | :18:14. | :18:22. | |
And how have we got to a situation, Madam Deputy Speaker, where the cap | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
applies to any tenancy signed after the 1st of April, only 62 days away | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
and housing associations are still not clear about the plans. The | :18:31. | :18:38. | |
Minister has offered no details of his review today and his party has | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
got for him on promising things during debates which it then | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
backtracks on. In fact, everybody knows there is a dangerous air of | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
hubris about government ministers these days. I think they might find | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
a degree of support if these measures were intended for working | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
age adults in general needs housing only, instead of such a sweeping | :19:06. | :19:15. | |
threat to the vulnerable. This allows for the comments about my | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
right honourable friend, the member for Wentworth made earlier during my | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
intervention. I believe that the Minister would ease the situation a | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
little if he could say today that service charges will not be included | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
in the cap because it is obvious that sheltered accommodation, | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
supportive housing schemes and extra care measures, and higher rents and | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
service charges since they are more expensive to build and manage, but | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
they bring huge savings to the NHS and other services. Some housing | :19:50. | :19:57. | |
associations, as we heard earlier, including Midland heart, a few these | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
proposals could cost them a huge shortfall, over ?1 million, in some | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
cases a discrepancy in housing payments will not deal with that. | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
Before this debate concludes, the minister needs to tell us that he | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
has got plans to protect bombed rubble people, he needs to give some | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
clue to what they are, he has to demonstrate that he has listened to | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
the plight of those in support accommodation -- protective | :20:29. | :20:30. | |
honourable people. And definitely exclude them from these measures. -- | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
protect vulnerable people. A pleasure to follow the honourable | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
member from Birmingham. These measures about striking a fair deal, | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
half year deal for those in accommodation and a fair deal for | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
those who provide accommodation and for the taxpayer. And there has to | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
be a balance in the increases in rents paid in the social housing | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
sector and those in the private rented sector. | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
Over the last ten years, there has been a 60% increase in rent paid in | :21:02. | :21:09. | |
the social housing sector. At the same time in the private rented | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
sector, a 23% increase. The 1% reduction in housing benefit I | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
believe is very fair to the taxpayer and tenants and means housing | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
associations get a fair deal. It is one I believe that they can manage. | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
And of course, this is all about balancing books. In the last up to | :21:34. | :21:43. | |
four years, almost 20 years of those -- in the last 24 years, there has | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
been accumulated debt of trillion. This Government has reduced the | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
deficit to ?75 billion. But that is much more to do. And the last eight | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
months since I have been in this place, the opposition has opposed | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
every single cut. So how would you balance those books? Would you cut | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
health care, Armed Forces, welfare, pensions? Where will you cut? Come | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
up with constructive suggestions about how you would make those cuts. | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
All in it to housing associations. They have a responsibility to use | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
taxpayers money Mac -- taxpayers' money wisely. They housing | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
associations collectively employ 91,000 people and those numbers have | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
been growing. A 1% reduction per annum, is that feasible in an | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
organisation like that? Yes, I believe it is. In the private | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
sector, that is something that is managed on a regular basis. These | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
changes, I believe, are fair and will result in huge savings. ?255 | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
million by the end of this Parliament. And in future | :22:57. | :23:03. | |
parliaments, ?1.1 billion per year. So, yes, they might need to be | :23:04. | :23:05. | |
consolidations and yes, more efficiencies. I will give way. Does | :23:06. | :23:13. | |
he not recognise any impact on supportive housing is going to fly | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
in the face of any idea of economic credibility? The knock-on effects of | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
supported accommodation closing, there will be more costs to | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
residential care and the NHS and the impact on the taxpayer will be | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
higher. This is not a good economic policy. We need to support | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
vulnerable people in accommodation and there is no question about that. | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
I believe that our homes, hostels, sheltered housing need that support. | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
Yes, this is a much more labour-intensive part of the market. | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
For personal care and in terms of supervision and maidens. I | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
absolutely believe that. Does the honourable gentleman not recognise, | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
following on from the honourable lady's point, the most complex need | :24:00. | :24:06. | |
for people... The difference in cost is 18,500 homes and the biggest user | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
of supported living our people over 70. At the moment, the debates we | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
are having over health is trying to get people into the community. | :24:17. | :24:18. | |
People will end up in expensive alternatives. Tayyab Subhani except | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
that point and be need to make sure we protect our most vulnerable | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
people. That is what I believe we will do. Many of those that provide | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
this supported housing and specialist accommodation are of | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
course part of much larger organisations, able to blend these | :24:40. | :24:41. | |
reductions right across various things. But there are some | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
specialist providers that we want to make sure still providing that | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
accommodation. This is in the early stages, in consultation. I welcome | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
the minister's announcement that there will be a one-year delay in | :25:00. | :25:02. | |
the introductions of the meeting get this right. This has been spoken | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
about before. The homelessness Minister said in September of last | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
year that specialised support of accommodation is likely to be | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
exempted. I think there is no need for members of the opposition to | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
basically frighten our residents and make them feel that they will lose | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
their homes. It is irresponsible. Irresponsible. And on top of | :25:26. | :25:34. | |
everything else, of course there is ?800 million in discretionary | :25:35. | :25:36. | |
housing payments in this Parliament for the more vulnerable tenants. | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
Those who suffer domestic violence, ?40 million. I would say to members | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
opposite, wait for the results of the policy because the policy I | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
believe will provide a fair deal for our most honourable evil. -- people. | :25:51. | :25:58. | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have been listening to the speeches | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
from members opposite since the debate started and I do wonder | :26:03. | :26:05. | |
whether some of them are actually in the right debate. Because if they | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
are that the order paper, they will see that the debate is about | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
supported housing. It is not about housing costs bills, it is not about | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
taxation, it is about a very specific vulnerable group of people. | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
We keep hearing that we will wait to see the proposals. If that is the | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
case, would it not been sensible for the Government from the beginning, | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
before announcing these are proposals, to actually look into the | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
whole area and work out how much would cost, what the issues are, and | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
then have this reviewed before making the announcement? Because if | :26:47. | :26:49. | |
they carried that Revere properly, they would have found these | :26:50. | :26:57. | |
proposals are counter productive economically and morally. If they | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
had done their homework before making the announcement, maybe we | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
would not have this debate. Can I say, the suggestion he may is so | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
unfair. I very rarely cry, but when I do, they are real tears. And also | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
on this site, we do care about people. The reason that we care | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
about people is because that is what the Labour Party is founded for. As | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
the suggestions from members across that somehow social housing groups | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
have pots of money and spend millions of pounds on campaigning, | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
absolute rubbish. I have been contacted by a number of housing | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
associations and charities which are looking after vulnerable people in | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
my constituency and I can assure you that they do not have money to waste | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
on campaigning. I visited these places and I have seen what has | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
happened. So let me enlighten the House about an organisation in my | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
constituency that is carrying out valuable work. One is the main | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
social provider of social housing in Bolton. They contacted me and I | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
speak to them regularly in any event. They say that thousands of | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
children will end at being made homeless and hundreds of adults as | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
well. Apart from social housing, they provide supported housing. It | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
is important to remember what supported housing means. It is the | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
vulnerable, the disabled, the elderly, people with mental health | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
issues, the young. That is what we are talking about! I tell you | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
something, by actually saying that somehow calming them out of | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
supported housing, the Government is actually going to look on eyes and | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
cut the costs, it is absolute rubbish. -- going to a con -- | :28:47. | :29:00. | |
economise. Saint Vincent 's, which is a charity that runs a secure unit | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
for six adults, relies on housing benefits to be able to look after | :29:05. | :29:12. | |
people. People with drug problems and mental health problems. Very | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
vulnerable people. But then on the street and they will probably commit | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
crimes and end up in the prison system, causing the state more | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
money. I also have another association which has companions for | :29:23. | :29:30. | |
honourable people. They usually housing benefit to provide support | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
for them. -- they use the housing benefit. I do not understand where | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
this Government seems to think that the proposals would actually make | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
them save money. They are counter-productive. I know my | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
honourable friend wants to intervene. Thank you for giving way. | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
In the words of the late Ronald Reagan, there you go again. It | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
sounds like the honourable lady has a monopoly of understanding. Does | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
she not accept that beyond this side of the House also topped to service | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
providers in constituency and we know what is going on? I genuinely | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
do sometimes have to struggle with the idea whether members on that | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
side of the House do care or are bothered. Because I tell you | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
something, if you were genuinely bothered about the disabled and the | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
vulnerable people, you would have spent your five-minute speech | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
talking about it, not actually criticising the Labour members | :30:30. | :30:36. | |
opposite, cars, for bringing this matter up in the House and accusing | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
us... I do not i-mate energy said Crocker the deals. -- I do not know | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
how many times you said crocodile tears. I got carried away, sorry, | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
Madam David is bigger. -- Madam Deputy Speaker. If the members | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
opposite were genuinely worried about four honourable people, they | :31:00. | :31:01. | |
would support us today. All we are asking about is that people with a | :31:02. | :31:15. | |
whole range of issues... For example, the members in an | :31:16. | :31:17. | |
organisation in my constituency has companions. They usually benefit for | :31:18. | :31:27. | |
that. The companions then have to pay other taxes and other social | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
security benefits. The actual cost of providing homes is ?1000 to the | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
charity. But they do it because they want to help these people learn | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
skills and integrated society. This cutting of benefit will mean that | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
they have to find more money to be able to support these people. If the | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
people in St Vincent Akhtar and tarmac turfed out, -- Parkhurst out, | :31:50. | :31:59. | |
I go back to the question I asked right at the beginning. Can the | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
Minister guarantee that people currently in supported housing will | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
not be turfed out their home? Will we be supported and protected? I | :32:11. | :32:17. | |
have not had an answer. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
participate in this opposition debate. Since my election 2015, I | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
have worked closer with my main Housing Association, who do a superb | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
job representing tenants. Getting more people into homes was a key | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
election priority for me. We have acute shortage of homes in my | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
constituency and I am pleased this Government has set out an ambition | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
to deliver 1 million new homes by 2020. I applaud the doubling of the | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
housing budget to make this happen. Whilst this Government has rightly | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
increasing housing spending in the budget, difficult decisions have to | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
be made of this Government is to deliver a budget surplus by 2020. | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
With these ambitions in mind, I am conscious that the Housing Benefit | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
Bill Double Has Increased By ?6.7 Billion Between 1997 And 2010 To | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
Reach A Total Of 23 Billion. I Welcome The Intention To Reduce The | :33:10. | :33:20. | |
Housing Bill. Reducing some rents by 1% and requiring higher in | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
containers to pay the market rates. Whilst I recognise concerns raised | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
in this motion, I thought understand why the Government is looking to cap | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
the rent that housing benefit will cover in the social sector from that | :33:33. | :33:40. | |
of the local housing allowance. I am also conscious, as my honourable | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
friend mentioned, that in the last ten years, average social rents have | :33:46. | :33:52. | |
raised the macros and by -- have risen. There have been concerns that | :33:53. | :33:59. | |
rent rises in the social sector needs reform. However, my leading | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
local housing association provider have written to me prior to the | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
Government's welcome announcement to express concerns as to how it will | :34:10. | :34:11. | |
cover the additional funding required for supported housing for | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
those with complex needs. I am father told that as a result of | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
these concerns, a proposed extra care scheme which will open in | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
Bexhill could be shelved. Representing a constituency where | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
the proportion of over 65-year-olds is 20%, compared to the national | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
average of 17%, with an even greater duty on me to ensure that the | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
sometimes complex needs of my constituents are properly recognised | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
and taken into account. I welcome the Government's intention to build | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
a framework to support us vulnerable at the same time as delivering the | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
forms to housing benefit, which I also support. I am conscious that | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
the Government recognises our new reforms will need time to bed in and | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
will cost millions and the Government will pump money in to | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
support these reforms as it did in the last term during housing benefit | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
reform. In addition to the ?465 million of discretionary housing the | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
stomach benefits the Government has pledged, the Government has pledged | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
extra money which I welcome. If it is part of his review, I asked the | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
minister if it would be possible to build some form of LHA which would | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
embrace the Cabinet was some top up to cover the cost requirements of | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
housing associations to provide for the most honourable. Until this | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
time, I hope speculation from this House does not lead to the most | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
vulnerable being driven to worry about something that might not | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
occur. I would like to reference the importance for all housing | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
associations start with care and compassion to tenants. I acted on | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
concern of a number of residents on the border of my constituency. The | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
tenants were informed in writing that their landlord was looking to | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
decamp the properties. There was very little detail given to | :36:02. | :36:03. | |
residents who were in the homes for years. There was talk of moving | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
these tenants out of the town. Is as at a time when people can buy | :36:07. | :36:15. | |
the property, I was staggered that these residents the worker Neto, | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
educate the children in these town, could lose their homes. They require | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
that any tenant decanted from properties to be sold under this | :36:30. | :36:31. | |
policy are suitably rehoused to their satisfaction before the date | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
of the completion of disposal. In my interpretation, this means that the | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
test of whether alternatives are suitable are a subjective one for my | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
constituents and I will work on their behalf for a better outcome. I | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
use this example because I feel it is essential where government is | :36:51. | :36:52. | |
rightly giving rights to tenants to buy their own housing that the law | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
of unintended consequences does not take into deprived of these rights. | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
In conclusion, I welcome the desire of this government to make savings | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
in the housing benefits bill and use these proceeds to build more houses | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
and I welcome the fact that the government is looking how they can | :37:09. | :37:11. | |
support tenants of Housing associations who are vulnerable and | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
need additional support and I look forward to championing needs of all | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
my constituents who live in housing association properties. I am | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
grateful for the virginity to take part in this important debate and I | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
must congratulate Labour for bringing it before the house today | :37:29. | :37:30. | |
-- grateful for the opportunity. I support the points and questions | :37:31. | :37:44. | |
posed by the honourable member for Sheffield South East. I hope the | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
Minister was taking note and will respond to those pertinent points. I | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
also recommend that the honourable member looks at the House of Commons | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
library briefing on the subject and in the Ottoman statement made by the | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
Chancellor as I don't believe the speeches bear any resemblance to any | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
of those statements. A secure, one of that for purpose home is a right | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
we should all enjoy and should never be threatened, least of all by the | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
state, yet I am afraid this is what this government is doing. We have | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
already seen what this government is capable of through the expansion of | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
the bedroom tag and we are again seeing it here in the proposal to | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
cut housing benefit and on the subject of the bed tax, we hear | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
today that the Court of Appeal has ruled that two cases where the | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
policy is discriminatory. In light of this ruling and the overwhelming | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
evidence of how detrimental the policy has been, the UK government | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
must now think again on the bedroom tax and on this trip Ozil to cut | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
housing benefit and not just think about it for a year but for good. | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
Get back to the drawing board and start again from bases of supporting | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
people in homes, not threatening to evict them from their homes. In | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
Scotland the SNP Scottish government has committed to building 50,000 | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
affordable homes in the course of the next parliament should the SNP | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
be returned, providing much-needed capacity in the social rented sector | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
because we recognised the need to build houses, not cut supported | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
housing benefits recipients. The Scottish government has also taken | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
the necessary steps to mitigate the Draconian bedroom tax by providing | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
?90 million to more than 70,000 households that have escaped rental | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
arrears and the threat of eviction. The Scottish government has done | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
this is by the overall budget cut of 12.5%, since the SNP came to power | :39:36. | :39:42. | |
in 2007. In Scotland we realise that a house is a home and would serve | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
the UK government wealth to bear that in mind as well. This | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
cut-throat threatens the roof over the heads of housing benefit | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
claimants. -- this cut threatens the roof. Over 800,000 families across | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
the UK will be affected by these cuts costing them an average of | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
?1300 a year. Wearable bus shortfall in annual rent bills be found? -- | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
where will this shortfall be found? The Scottish Federation of Housing | :40:10. | :40:25. | |
associations estimated a single person under the age of 35 who is in | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
receipt of housing benefit will face a weekly shortfall of ?6 22, which | :40:30. | :40:37. | |
equates to an annual loss of ?323. A total loss to the housing | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
associations of 2.8 million per year. The area where this cut is of | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
great concern is woman's refuges, Scottish woman's age wrote to Lord | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
Freud about the impact these cuts will have on their ability to | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
provide a refuge service for children and women fleeing domestic | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
violence. In a letter to the government, the commission they | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
should have been aware of and they carried out an impact assessment it | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
would have been clear as day to them. There are a range of | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
additional costs involved in providing a managing refuge | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
accommodation for woman and children fleeing domestic violence and | :41:13. | :41:23. | |
that... LH a rates bear no resemblance to the actual cost to | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
woman's aid groups such as Monklands woman's aid in my consistency and | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
Winnie provide refuge facilities. I have been working closely with | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
Sharon Aitchison who manages the company and they operate under any | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
fine margins to provide a billion service for incredibly honourable | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
women and children at a time of need and they have had their funding | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
challenge but this cut to housing benefit would put them out of the | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
game. This is what the government will have as a consequence of this | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
cut and while I am on the subject I hope the Chancellor will reply to my | :41:56. | :41:58. | |
letter from the 26 November last year regarding his announcement of | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
the tampon tax fund and I have not even had an ignored them. Dillian | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
Whyte has been done in the recent years to tackle domestic violence | :42:10. | :42:10. | |
and better support woman and children from abuse of religion and | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
all that work will be undone at a stroke as Monklands woman's aid | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
would not be the only ones forced. It is time this cut, hitting those | :42:21. | :42:27. | |
who need the support the most is scrapped. | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
I rise to speak perhaps as one of the only people in this room, | :42:34. | :42:41. | |
perhaps even in the Commons who has actually run one of these precious | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
services and let me tell you today has been so frustrating, the lack of | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
understanding of the practicalities and be let how it works, it has been | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
mind-boggling so I apologise if that comes out as aggression. There are | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
many woman who has lived in refuge and even more children. None more so | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
than an era, the only woman who brought tears to my eyes because you | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
learn to live with it. She was found pregnant on the side of the road and | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
she tried to end her life, but her perpetrator she had been kept | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
chained to a table and said scraps like an abused animal and in refuge | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
we had to teach to eat again with small portions and slow progress. | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
When her beautiful daughter was born and was a refuge worker who held her | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
hand in Labour and the refuge manager who picked up from the | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
hospital and took her back home and a woman in refuge in the game her | :43:39. | :43:46. | |
family. Refuges are amazing. I think back to the Conservative members I | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
have walked around woman refuges where I worked, I remember drinking | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
tea with the honourable member from Regis and the then Minister Francis | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
was in the playroom of one of our refuges, that playroom will not be | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
there if these changes passed. The likelihood is that they would not | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
have a refuge to visit under those circumstances but they were not our | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
most eminent guess, that accolade goes to the Home Secretary herself | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
who was a keen visitor of my domestic violence services, if the | :44:20. | :44:21. | |
government plans to reduce housing benefit and do not exempt this | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
group, the ministers will be letting down the Home Secretary in a big | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
way. For every net she tries to put in place, these proposals, without | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
exemptions, will snip a whole for women and children to fall through, | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
the minister in front of me should make no mistake when people slip | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
through these safety nets, born night of hard work or personal | :44:44. | :44:46. | |
responsibility will help them, they will face danger, abuse and too many | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
cases of death. The coalition government and this government have | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
shown their commitment to these families in some ways, the Home | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
Office have try to invest lots of money and have taken a good hard | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
look at laws which will help these victims and there is a lot more to | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
do and I don't think they are not trying and I do think that they | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
care. I'm afraid to say that they are all fully let down by other | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
government departments who feel to recognise their role in the fight to | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
end domestic abuse. There is no greater offence than the Department | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
for communities and local government with their brutal cuts to local | :45:24. | :45:25. | |
authorities which have already closed 34 specialist women's refuges | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
since 2010. Last year before the election they suddenly had an | :45:33. | :45:35. | |
epiphany and released a fund to stimulate increased refuge bed | :45:36. | :45:42. | |
spaces. That she not agree with me that the constant references to | :45:43. | :45:44. | |
shroud waving are in fact an insult to those refuges and the housing | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
associations who are concerned they have to cause accommodation to the | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
most honourable people and people who do work with veterans, former | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
veterans, they will have to close support of accommodation, of the | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
party opposite are so scared about scaremongering and shroud waving | :46:05. | :46:06. | |
they can put an end to that by doing something about this policy. I | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
couldn't agree more, the simple thing to do is exempt them and we | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
now that the government will probably do it, we have waved our | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
shrouds in every single case and do you know what, they listened, so | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
stop me having to talk about this, stop making me a shroud waiver, just | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
do it. Going back to the ?10 million over the 12 months that they gave | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
just before the election, which was intended to create new beds, I have | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
had Mr stand at the dispatch box and caught the number of beds they have | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
created and I know that every single bed that will have been put forward | :46:43. | :46:45. | |
in that fund would have made the calculation based on the current and | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
existing rates of housing benefit. I know that every bed would have had | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
calculation is based on the current and existing housing benefit rates. | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
Without the housing benefit plus settlement, the ?10 million offered | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
would have been completely meaningless and I know this because | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
I helped to write three of the successful bids. I have run refuges | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
that survived solely on housing benefit contributions without any | :47:14. | :47:15. | |
recall to the now nonexistent supporting people funds. My charity, | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
when times were tough and our refuge funding was cut in half, we sucked | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
it up, we make tough decisions and be found new ways and new funds, we | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
worked on different models to bring in support staff to the refuge, none | :47:29. | :47:31. | |
of it would have been possible without the existing system for | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
housing benefit. That is why we got all those Tories coming to see us, | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
haven't we done such a good job of cutting our class, we could only do | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
it because of housing benefit. First day of this change would have closed | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
at least 20 of our bed spaces, turning away every year over 100 | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
women and as many of not more vulnerable children. This week I'd | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
stood in the childcare debate on bed for the responsible minister to | :47:57. | :47:58. | |
consider exempting victims of domestic violence from the rules are | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
the 16 hour threshold for increased childcare, he stopped me in my | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
tracks and made that commitment. I am begging those opposite to do what | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
he did. What the Home Secretary is trying to do, to protect victims of | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
domestic violence and their children. The Minister might think | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
it is hyperbole but I should say it anyway was that without the | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
exemption, what he is proposing for many will be a death penalty. Please | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
don't do it. It has now become apparent, | :48:32. | :48:44. | |
increasingly apparent that this government is one of the most | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
pusillanimous in living memory when it comes to tackling the powerful | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
with a vested interest in this country whether it is for the | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
interest of the media, utilities, any companies who have replaced the | :48:55. | :49:01. | |
coffers of the Tory party. This pusillanimous approach extends the | :49:02. | :49:04. | |
international level as well. The kowtowing to foreign governments | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
whether it be the Chinese government or the Saudi Arabian government is | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
cringeworthy and embarrassing and not worthy of a British government. | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
It has come to something when the Italian government has managed to | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
get all money out of taxes on big corporations than the Chancellor of | :49:21. | :49:22. | |
the Exchequer and that is saying something. If you are a young, old, | :49:23. | :49:28. | |
disabled or physically and mentally distressed, unemployed in low pay, | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
in temporary and zero hours contracts, you are fair game for | :49:34. | :49:36. | |
this government. This is a government who challenges the week | :49:37. | :49:39. | |
and the vulnerable and needy and dresses it up as a virtue or | :49:40. | :49:42. | |
character building. But of course the Trent has now begun to discredit | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
anybody who gets it this way things that it is getting in its way. The | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
government can teach a Mafia a thing or two about extortion but without | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
the charm. The House of Lords challenges the governments of the | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
government is now given thought as to how to clip the wings of their | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
lords and ladies ships. The district they have only managed to do that | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
now, now that they don't have a built-in majority there. As for the | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
banks and the bankers, only today we have seen the continued fallout from | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
the reckless decisions that led to the crisis with RBS for example | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
today having to put aside a further ?2 billion to cover their | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
incompetence. The ministers on behalf of the government want to | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
blame the last Labour government, yet this was the same group of | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
people who are in the form of the shadow cabinet in 2007, who lock | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
stock and barrel wanted to deregulate the banking and financial | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
services even more, freeing to compete document which in the light | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
of the banking crisis, caused by their friends in the city, was | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
quietly buried, much to the chagrin of the right on all member for | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
walking, who quarter needed it. I copy this document. | :50:57. | :51:05. | |
I suggest members opposite acquaint themselves with this document if | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
they can find it. The Prime Minister patted himself on the back again for | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
the Government's record on tax collection. If that is the best this | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
Government can do, no wonder it penalises those who can at least | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
afford it. If it cannot get money from the corporations, you will get | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
it from the dispossessed. Once again, and other policy that has not | :51:26. | :51:33. | |
been thought through. The impact on the longer term finances of local | :51:34. | :51:36. | |
Governor than the Health Service are potentially catastrophic. Elderly | :51:37. | :51:43. | |
persons in supported accommodation, it is much cheaper than the | :51:44. | :51:54. | |
proposals. Not content with penalising old people for being old, | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
the Government have focused on people with disabilities, victims of | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
domestic violence... And in 440,000 homes potentially affected. | :52:05. | :52:06. | |
Discretionary support will not make up the difference. The St Vincent | :52:07. | :52:12. | |
Housing Association says that these proposals look like having a | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
detrimental effect, more so than any other recent housing or welfare | :52:17. | :52:22. | |
announcement. In my own constituency, the Housing | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
Association will struggle. For sheltered housing schemes, it cost | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
?123 per week. There will be a shortfall of ?32. These will have a | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
significant detrimental effect on those organisations able to support | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
the most vulnerable. I know that when we talk about the most | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
honourable, the opposition accuses of shroud waving. We are just | :52:46. | :52:51. | |
telling the facts as it is. The facts as it possibly could be. | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
Honourable members over the other side can wring their hands and | :52:56. | :52:58. | |
accuse my right honourable friend, the shadow Housing Minister, of | :52:59. | :53:01. | |
being a scaremonger, but we're putting their heads in the sand even | :53:02. | :53:08. | |
more than they usually do. -- but they are. It is the responsibility | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
of this House and ministers across the way to get a grip of the | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
Chancellor and get him to change his mind, for the umpteenth time. Mr | :53:17. | :53:24. | |
Deputy Speaker, thank you. Cambridge is a high-cost area and is in the | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
grip of a housing crisis. It is a modified Rob and it is complicated | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
but I have to say that every single thing the Government is doing is | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
making it worse at the moment and this policy is no exception. We had | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
members opposite ask what Labour would do. Three-year terraces with | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
it unexpected rent rises would be a good start and I commend it to them. | :53:44. | :53:50. | |
-- tenancies. I have been talking to providers of social housing in | :53:51. | :53:52. | |
Cambridge and what struck me as every single one of them warned | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
about the dangers of this policy and the effects it will have on our | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
city. I will tell you what they have told me. Let's start at the YMCA, | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
which has 80 residents, a mix of students and people in work. 70 | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
received housing benefit. They tell me that if housing benefit is cut, | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
it will simply be the case that they will be turfed out onto the street. | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
The YMCA the one to do that but they will have no alternative and that | :54:19. | :54:20. | |
will undermine the recovery programmes and cause yet more young | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
people to end up living not on the Conservatives' spin happy road to | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
recovery but on the street. And Cambridge City Council directly | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
provides manages over 100 units of accommodation for homeless | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
households, including three hostels, 22 units of move on accommodation | :54:38. | :54:40. | |
for adults recovering from mental health conditions and 13 shot at | :54:41. | :54:50. | |
housing units. It'll be the same story for every member across the | :54:51. | :54:57. | |
House, and they have said that tenants will face a higher net pay | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
of rent per week. No more income to pay it, just higher rent. These are | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
of honourable people struggling to prioritise paying the rent and we | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
know what will happen. They will either sink into a spiral of debt or | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
lose accommodation and most likely both. My council also tells me that | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
because of the inevitable loss of income, they will be forced to | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
reduce services they provide. That means fewer wardens, less support | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
unless preventative work to stop people going into hospital. My local | :55:25. | :55:35. | |
NHS already has severely document problems really discussed in this | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
chamber. They talk of a joined up Government, Mr Deputy Speaker. I did | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
not think so. This will cost more money and passes the buck onto the | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
hospitals and homeless services which are already overstretched and | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
working flat out. Then there are the Housing associations. The Cambridge | :55:53. | :55:55. | |
Housing Society group tell me that the overall impact of the LHA cap | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
will be a loss of income to them of 537 pounds per year -- ?537,000 per | :56:00. | :56:07. | |
year. It will plunge them into significant operating loss. That | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
scheme houses 47 people. Vulnerable teenagers, people with learning | :56:15. | :56:16. | |
difficulties, vulnerable women and vulnerable older people. In the | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
words, this provision will be under immediate threat. Let me be generous | :56:21. | :56:31. | |
for more -- for the moment. The Government change their mind before. | :56:32. | :56:34. | |
We have heard powerful arguments on the side of the House today. Maybe | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
the Government really did not understand the consequences of these | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
proposals. If that is the case, they should listen carefully now. Let me | :56:43. | :56:45. | |
to include by being slightly less generous. -- conclude. This proposal | :56:46. | :56:52. | |
is part of a deadly cocktail of housing reforms that will decimate | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
this sector that makes our country's housing problems worse. There is a | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
constant gap between what this Government says and what it actually | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
does. They talk about helping our country to live within its means. In | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
reality, they are just mean. I urge the Government to think again. We | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
all make mistakes, there is no shame in admitting that something is you | :57:13. | :57:18. | |
have got it wrong. It is better than inflicting so much harm in so many | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
people. I am extremely grateful to you, Mister Deputy is bigger. -- Mr | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
Deputy Speaker. In my part of the world, the best thing that could be | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
said of the party opposite, the Conservative Party, is that you know | :57:36. | :57:38. | |
where you are with them. They might be cool but at least they are | :57:39. | :57:41. | |
competent. But after today's debate and after the week in which the | :57:42. | :57:50. | |
Department for Work and Pensions in particular, you have to wonder about | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
the latter part of the sentence. The Government were defeated in the | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
other place on the ludicrous suggestion that incomes should be | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
carved out of the meaningful measure of child poverty that the last | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
Labour Government introduced. We moved on to the Government having to | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
acknowledge that they should now exempt those in receipt of carers' | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
allowance from the punishment of the benefit cap, despite having in the | :58:17. | :58:24. | |
courts, in just the Lassie Reeves, having spent ?50,000 defending the | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
inclusion of carers under the benefit cap. This morning, we saw | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
the extraordinary events in the health of the kill, -- the Court of | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
Appeal, will the Government saw its cruel bedroom tax ruled not only | :58:41. | :58:48. | |
cruel but unlawful, discriminating against disabled people and | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
discriminating against my friend and fellow countrymen, Mister Paul | :58:53. | :58:54. | |
Rutherford and his wife Susan and their profoundly disabled child, | :58:55. | :59:01. | |
Warren. He was discriminated against over many years and had his day in | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
court today. I only hope that the Government will reflect with a | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
little more grace than the prime Minister did today at PMQs on the | :59:10. | :59:14. | |
meaning of that ruling in the Court of Appeal. And we will come back to | :59:15. | :59:22. | |
this place in order to give a ... I will give way. It was always totally | :59:23. | :59:31. | |
unfair to include carers in the bedroom tax. They cannot go out to | :59:32. | :59:34. | |
work due to the caving whiteboards and cannot increase the number of | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
hours that they do. They already save the state billions. Is it not | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
time that the 60,000 unpaid family carers should be exempted? Let's | :59:45. | :59:46. | |
call for the Government to take action on this straightaway. Mr | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
Deputy Speaker, that is just shroud waving. As an art we have held that | :59:54. | :59:57. | |
the last few years? Not just Vermont's, but for years we have | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
heard shroud waving about the bedroom tax and with that of | :00:02. | :00:04. | |
honourable people. Suggesting that it might be unlawful. It just turns | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
out, Mr Deputy Speaker, that it is unlawful, illegal and the Government | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
must come back to the size and the aggressive. This afternoon, the | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
Minister is chuntering from the front benches. It has been a welcome | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
but extraordinary turn of events in this House when after having been | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
asked by the side of the House and indeed by people interesting in the | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
housing sector and the social rented sector, on hundreds of occasions in | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
recent months, that you do if you did today, the minister and round | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
and said he agreed with us. That we should address this equally unfair | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
issue on the 1% cut in social housing rents. This is just part of | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
the problem that the social supported housing sector faces. He | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
is welcome, Mr Deputy Speaker, that the Minister without much good | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
grace, I thought, conceded that there should be a delay. It is | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
extraordinary that his Government has been looking into this policy | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
not, I have to say, just since 2014, but it is for the Narraway since | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
2011. Because it was 2011 that this Government for suggested that they | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
ought to address this question of, in their view, high social rented | :01:22. | :01:23. | |
costs versus local housing allowance. And five viewers later, | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
they have not come to a conclusion as to what they will do. -- five | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
years later. It is incompetence on in most gross scale. In the welfare | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
and work committee, we lost count of the number of occasions when we were | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
offered with excuses as to why that could not possibly be done and why | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
this moratorium or, as we asked for, if the exemption, might not be | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
affordable and allowed. In committee, I believe the word shroud | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
waving was used on a number of occasions. We were also accused of | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
jumping the gun with these measures, which were coming in for awhile and | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
there was plenty of time for the Government to get papers in order | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
and the policy right. I will give way. He makes a very eloquent case. | :02:09. | :02:19. | |
Can he explain to the House why, in benign economic times, his own | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
Government, when in power, did not deliver tax breaks to encourage | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
extra care facilities and other specialist housing facilities to be | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
developed? They stood still. Why was that? There was plenty of money | :02:32. | :02:33. | |
coming in and he had the opportunity to do so. Let me be very clear, the | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
National Audit Office has concluded that under the last Government, Tory | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
and Liberal Government. There was a 45% reduction in the amount of | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
funding for the housing sector. That is the reality for this Government. | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
The further reality... We have not been in power for six years. There | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
is only so long he can keep waving that particular shroud at me. The | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
key point is, under his Government, 40% cut. With his Government, we | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
face the prospect of the end of supported housing in this country | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
unless there is a change of course from his Government. There has also | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
been a lot of misunderstanding on the benches opposite as to what | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
we're talking about today. I do not know whether they read the brief | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
from the whips or they do not tell them the truth, but there are two | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
measures being debated. The first is the one on which there is a one-year | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
stay of execution. The cut by 1% of social housing residence. But the | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
second and were important, which the Minister did not address, despite | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
the questions from my right honourable friend, is the issue of | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
the realisation of the amount of housing benefit available to those | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
in social, rented accommodation with local housing allowances. That is | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
the biggest, most substantial change that the Government is proposing to | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
make. The honourable member previously said that this change has | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
not been made and it is not happening. She should read her | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
Government's statements. I will read to from the budget from last autumn. | :04:10. | :04:19. | |
It said clearly that the Government will cap the amount of rent housing | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
benefit will cover in the social sector to the relevant local housing | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
allowance. I will give way in one minute. This will apply to tenancies | :04:27. | :04:33. | |
signed after April 20 16. I my maths, that is in a couple of | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
months. With housing benefit entitlements changing right across | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
the board from April 20 18. This is not shroud waving jumping the gun. | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
It is the opposition trying the attention to the House and it would | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
seem members opposite a measure that will impact on their constituents in | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
just a few months. I give way. I think the member opposite is | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
misleading. The motion before us is about supported housing. That is | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
talking about general needs housing benefit and there is a difference. | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
There is no change in legislation. It is up for an extensive review | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
about supported housing and housing benefit and there is a difference. I | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
am sorry if the member opposite does not appreciate that. Mr Deputy | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
Speaker, I am unusually lost for words in this place. Because it is | :05:21. | :05:28. | |
extraordinary that the honourable member for Lewes does not understand | :05:29. | :05:35. | |
what you're talking about. Supported housing is captured under the aegis | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
of what we are talking. It is in the envelope of social housing. I will | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
not give way to her any longer. There is no point. I will give way | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
to the Minister if you would like to tell us what he's going to do about | :05:48. | :05:48. | |
local housing allowance. I honourable gentleman in making his | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
speech, he manages to brush over the fact that his honourable colleague | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
who spoke earlier was a minister involved in bringing in the spare | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
room subsidy initially. Maybe he can confronted says that the Labour | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
government, the affordable housing programme we have got has delivered | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
6% more supported homes per year than the Labour equivalent did | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
before. It is quite adjusting the minister did not write to the rescue | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
of his honourable friend because he knows she doesn't know what she is | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
talking about. The truth is she could also have a further look... At | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
the budget book produced by the government for the same spending | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
review which scores quite clearly ?515 million is the saving that is | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
anticipated from these cuts. The ISS goes further and says by the time | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
they are fully unfermented it might be ?1.1 billion. The largest part of | :06:45. | :06:52. | |
that is the change equalising housing benefit with local housing | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
allowance, not the one state of execution you have seen today, now I | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
have explained it, if she wants to come back I would be grateful. I am | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
even more worried that he doesn't understand the difference that | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
supported housing and housing allowance is much higher than the | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
ordinary general needs housing benefit allowance and members | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
opposite brought this debate to the chamber and B are supposed to be | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
debating supported housing, not general needs housing, I'm shot the | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
shadow minister doesn't understand the difference. -- I'm shocked. I | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
have made the point Mr Deputy Speaker about general social housing | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
and supported housing and that is absolutely clear. The other thing | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
that is clear because ministers admitted that at the dispatch box is | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
that she is right, supported housing does cost more money because it is | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
bespoke and looking at the people with our example complex artistic | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
needs or physical disabilities -- complex autistic. They cost more | :07:58. | :08:06. | |
money to look after those people because of in-house concierge and | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
all sorts of other things and that is why it is so wrong for the | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
government to equalise the amount of housing benefit that they can get | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
with local housing allowances available for the private rented | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
sector. That is the issue we are discussing. It is not as who have | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
raised this initially, it is the sector who have come to us and to | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
ministers opposite on many occasions, I will quote a few. And | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
Redford, chief Executive of the specialist housing association | :08:39. | :08:40. | |
framework said this will mean the end of supported housing, all of our | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
schemes will cause. All other as well as well. That seems to me to be | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
fairly straightforward, I will give you a few more. Many other confirmed | :08:50. | :08:57. | |
their schemes would be unviable if the cut went ahead. Ambaka 's | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
horizon that I believe have 119 such supported housing bodies across | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
London have confirmed it will have to close supported housing in London | :09:08. | :09:14. | |
and elsewhere if these changes go ahead. Charlotte Norman of Saint | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
Vincent housing says we cannot believe that government understands | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
the consequences of these changes and the first extra costs that will | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
fall into the public purse as a result of scheme closures. Nothing | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
short of exemption for all such housing will be adequate and we very | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
much hope that common sense will prevail. On this side of the house | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
we sure a lot of common-sense from the members from Glasgow South West | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
and the honourable member for Sheffield South East who is chairman | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
of the select committee who asked the central question, what will | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
happen to the equalisation with housing benefit that the Minister | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
failed to mention, is that going to be exempted for supported housing | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
associations, for specified housing and let me ask a further question | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
that the Minister Phil to answer and his colleague might in a moment, | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
will the wrens, if they do go up next year and not be cut by 1% go up | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
in line with the formula as they would have done ordinarily or are | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
they to be frozen, I would be grateful if the Minister could | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
answer. The member for Southampton raised the issue of the Society of | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
Saint James who helped 2000 people and will lose ?1 million. Members | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
format of old Bolton South East raised personal experience, their | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
deep knowledge of what it will mean for their constituents, the member | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
for Birmingham Yardley spoke with particular expertise about her | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
experience of running a women's refuge and explain how these changes | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
would shut down that refuge and beg ministers to listen to her and to | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
listen to the Home Secretary as to the value of those women's refuges | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
and the damage that will be done to them. The members for brutal and | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
Cambridge spoke as well. On the opposite side, members were | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
sanguine. On the opposite side members dissembled. On the opposite | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
side the members had the choice as to what the going to do to date, are | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
they going to agree that nothing short of exemption on specialised | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
supported housing is required in order to safeguard the most | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
vulnerable of our communities. What we have heard today is welcome but | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
insufficient and will become back to the dispatch box and agree with me | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
that now was the time to admit they got it wrong and as they have done | :11:38. | :11:39. | |
so many times this week, reverse ferret. | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
This has been a very powerful and important debate and we have been | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
listening to the arguments on both sides, very important points raised | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
and a number of questions have been asked and I will do my best to cover | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
as many of those as I can. Our welfare reform is about bringing | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
wide-ranging reforms to the welfare system and bringing the budget back | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
under control after years of overspending by Labour. My | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
honourable friend for Peterborough where very eloquent in setting out | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
the importance of this and our reforms are bringing fairness for | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
hard-working taxpayers are making work pay and making welfare system | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
and for the future. Protecting the most vulnerable, this is the key | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
part to this debate today and as we progress with these important and | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
necessary reforms we have stuck to our principle of protecting the most | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
vulnerable. As Minister for disabled people the principle is particularly | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
important to me and I know how important the right housing is for | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
an individual's needs and I am proud of our record on helping those that | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
need the most bought and I want to remind the house that on this record | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
we have spent around ?50 billion every year on benefits alone to | :12:56. | :12:57. | |
support people with disabilities or health conditions and spending will | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
be higher in every year until 2020 than in 2010. We are spending ?400 | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
million to deliver 8000 specialist homes for the vulnerable, elderly or | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
those with disabilities and funding for the disabled facilities grant | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
which funds around 40,000 adaptions per year is due to increased by | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
nearly 80% next year. We are providing ?870 billion of support -- | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
?870 million the discretionary housing payments in the next five | :13:29. | :13:30. | |
years to help those who need support and the Department of health is | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
committed to funding 7500 by the specialist homes for disabled and | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
older people. We are also providing support to other vulnerable groups | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
of ?40 million for victims of domestic abuse, which is a tripling | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
of the support, you sure nobody is turned away from the support they | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
need and it is a tribute to the honourable member for Birmingham | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
Yardley, who does focus the house on the absolute importance of the | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
services they provide, putting a real realism into that. I understand | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
it, I have done a lot of work with women's aid in the last Parliament | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
and I would pay tribute to my own Swindon's women's refuge. They | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
cannot boast about what they do, it is behind closed doors but the | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
honourable member has really focused minds and it is important to do. | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
More than ?500 million has been spent since 2010 to tackle | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
homelessness preventing almost 1 million households from becoming | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
homeless since 2010. Turning to supported housing, it is a tribute | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
to my honourable friend for Lewis and the honourable member for Mika | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
field to set out that their real life experience, some of the | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
challenges and opportunities in this area. One supported housing will | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
recognise the value of supported housing sector, we want to ensure | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
that the essential services they deliver continued to be provided | :14:48. | :14:49. | |
within the context of driving appropriate value for money. Many | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
members have put that on record and has woken about that support. Very | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
powerful, very important that was done. We want to make sure the | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
sector can continue to deliver important services and that is why | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
we will be putting in place a one-year exemption from all | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
supported accommodation and 1% rent reduction and I believe this will | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
give us time to study the evidence from supported housing review which | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
is due to report in the spring and consider the longer term solution | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
for the supported sector. The honourable member for Sheffield | :15:26. | :15:27. | |
South East as the number of questions and one of them was what | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
happens to rents in supported housing for next years during the | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
one-year delay and they will be in CPI plus 1% and reviewed after that. | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
In terms of the review itself, it will tell us the size, scale and | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
scope of supported housing, the policy options will be considered | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
after the port is published in consultation with a wide range of | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
stakeholders and the conclusions will be reached in June course as | :15:57. | :16:04. | |
that is brought. I am reassured by what he says, will he ensure that | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
both the Treasury and NHS England are involved in this issue because | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
it is potent that there is proper coordination between acute hospital | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
care and social care as we go into the future with the demographic | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
issues we are currently facing. I thank my honourable friend for that | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
intervention and we all accept in this says that this issue is far | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
wider and we must look at that including all of that in the | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
consultation. The honourable friend for certain rubble has asked me to | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
take on board the comments on the housing bill and the honourable | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
member from Cambridge highlighted YMCA, an important organisation and | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
I'm pleased that the YMCA England chief executive has tweeted that it | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
is a positive that that government has listened to the concerns of the | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
sector and taken appropriate action to protect supported housing. If the | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
house is to take him at his word that he wants the evidence from the | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
review and then a consultation in order to make the policy decisions, | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
will he therefore put back and have a moratorium on the application of | :17:10. | :17:17. | |
the L H a benefit cut just like he is proposing to do with the rent | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
cut, so the new tenancies from April this year will not be affected in | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
the way that the Chancellor announced? New tenants come into | :17:26. | :17:38. | |
effect in 2016. The 1% delay is just for the supported housing, so I'm | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
afraid I cannot give a commitment to that. On the LH cap, it comes in | :17:44. | :17:53. | |
2018. The question is, will the Minister do further changes in | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
housing benefit related to LH just for supported housing from April | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
this year, so doesn't apply for new tenancies until the review has been | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
completed. ? Those changes will not come into effect, we will look at | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
the review and I can assure members that the DWP will also be working | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
closely to make sure the appropriate protections are in place for those | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
supported housing as we go forward. Those changes do come into effect | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
for new tenancies in supported housing from April this year, will | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
the Minister defers those changes? For those in supported housing, they | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
will... We are delaying that for a year. The rationale for changes in | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
the social rented sector, we sit to our principles of protecting the | :18:47. | :18:48. | |
most vulnerable but these are important reforms, we inherited a | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
burgeoning housing benefit still and we had to get control of it. It | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
started to do that but we have to go further. The housing benefit bill | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
for England has risen by over 20% during the last ten years, point | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
raised by my honourable friend. Part of the reason is that the rises in | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
social rents have outstripped those in the private sector, highlighted | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
by my friend from first and Malton. Social rents are up 60% compared to | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
23% in the private sector. In the private sector the local housing | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
allowance kerbs but there are no similar things in the social sector | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
and that is why the wool cap social sector runs in the same way as the | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
private sector and reduced rents in the social sector for that this will | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
help the one third of those who don't claim any housing benefit in | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
this sector who would see their rents come down. We will continue to | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
protect the most vulnerable. Our wider housing reforms are just part | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
of our ways to improve access, creating more choice and building | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
more affordable homes and we are doubling the housing budget to more | :19:52. | :19:53. | |
than ?20 billion in the next five-year to help ensure housing is | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
prioritised for those who need it most. I believe sought social, | :19:58. | :20:04. | |
affordable rented homes fell by 400000 and under the Conservative | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
government, 700,000 new homes have been built in the past five years of | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
which 270,000 have been affordable and we have broadened the | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
opportunities to access housing to help to buy, right to buy and the 8 | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
billion bound commitment to deliver 400,000 more homes starts. This | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
governor that tackling the chronic undersupply and access to housing, | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
something the party opposite field to do. In conclusion, we will not | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
fall into the trap of Labour's blank cheque approach and try to pay the | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
way of problems without any reform to welfare, reforms bring fairness | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
for hard-working taxpayers and making the welfare budget more | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
sustainable for the future on doing this while providing the right | :20:45. | :20:46. | |
protection for the most honourable in society. | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
The question is as on the order paper. Division, clear the lobbies! | :20:53. | :21:36. | |
Are you ready, folks? Yes, we are. Order, order. The question is as on | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
the order paper. Order! Order! The ayes to the right, | :21:42. | :29:03. | |
239. The nose to the left, 286. The ayes to the right, 239. The node | :29:04. | :33:36. | |
to the left, 286. The nos habit. -- have it. | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
We now come to the motion... We now come to the motion in the name of | :33:43. | :33:54. | |
the Leader of the Opposition on prisons and probation. I'd call Andy | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
Slaughter to move the motion. I beg to move the motion in my name and | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
the names of my honourable friends. Prison and probation staff have some | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
of the toughest jobs in the country. With few exceptions, they work with | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
industry, compassion and resolution to protect the public and to help | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
change lives through rehabilitation, all of us in this house over them | :34:20. | :34:26. | |
our gratitude. In six years in the shadow justice team and also as MP | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
for one of Britain's most iconic presence, Wormwood Scrubs, and in | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
the past as a criminal barrister I have no -- visited many prisons. I | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
have spoken to them and their representatives to whom I also pay | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
to be. The conclusion is that the prison and the term includes the | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
youth and adult estate, is not working contrary to the famous | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
pronouncement of the noble Lord Lord Howard. From his statements as | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
bitter so far, the Lord Chancellor may agree, the question today is | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
what are he and his government going to do about it. It is the view of | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
many in his party that prison isn't working. We have waited some time | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
for a Parliamentary debate on the crisis in the prisons, this with a | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
fourth in a week. I hope it is a reflection of the new priority we | :35:19. | :35:25. | |
are giving to this issue. It would be... I am grateful, when I was in | :35:26. | :35:36. | |
his position as Shadow prisons minister ten years ago, I could have | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
put down a motion in the name of the official opposition in exactly the | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
same terms as the first lines of his motion. Why didn't he do something | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
about it then? I take the intervention in the spirit it is | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
meant but I hope we are not going to have a war of who did what and when | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
because as he will see when I go on it is not the last ten years, it is | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
the last 50 years we are talking about. I want to make a special | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
mention of the debate on prison reform in the other place on the | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
21st January in the name of the noble lord, Lord Falmer lest the | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
Lord Chancellor take exception to the wording that UK prisons are in | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
crisis, he ended his excellent speech with these words, in 1970, we | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
faced a prisons crisis, today we face a prison scandal. Every speech | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
in a debate was superb, I hope this house can live up to those high | :36:37. | :36:38. | |
standards today. The Minister said that he had no | :36:39. | :36:49. | |
difficulty in supporting any of them. I assume the same could be | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
said for the Lord Chancellor. The five points are deprivation of | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
liberty but not to make life as uncomfortable as possible, and | :37:00. | :37:01. | |
overcrowding, reduce the number of people sent to prison, do so by | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
re-examining sentencing and past responsibility to the government and | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
staff. The Chancellor spoke approvingly of these points. Does he | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
agree with Lord Fowler and has Minister on the other four points, | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
more importantly, if he does, how does he set out to accomplish them? | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
It is not a trick question. Adults know if the best -- I don't know | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
what mood the Chancellor is in today. He has set some reviews in | :37:30. | :37:37. | |
progress, but what action does the government intends to take? I would | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
like for him to add some substance to the rhetoric today. I will do so | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
by setting out the scale of the task before him. In the 12 months up to a | :37:48. | :37:56. | |
September 2015, there were many deaths in prison custody, 95 | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
suicides, up from 60 on the same period in 2010, 153 from natural | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
causes up from 123, and seven homicides. There have been the same | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
number of homicides in prisons in the last two years as in the | :38:10. | :38:16. | |
receiving eight. In the 12 months to June 2015, there are 2281 reported | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
incidence of self harm, up from 21% in just a year. There were 4156 | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
assaults on staff, 26 -- 20% rise from the year before. There were 578 | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
serious assaults on staff, a rise of 42% from the year before. And | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
tragically, a prison officer, Lorraine Barwell, in the first such | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
incident of its type in the quarter of a century, died in July of last | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
year after being the victim of an attack in the line of duty one month | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
earlier. We owe it to her and her family to make sure that her | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
colleagues are as safe as possible. I will give way. I am very grateful | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
to my honourable friend. He started off by setting out some quite | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
staggering and frankly appalling statistics on the numbers of | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
prisoners who have suddenly taken their own lives or who are self | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
harming. Does this not underlined the very real problems of mental | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
health in prisons, and what more does he think the government should | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
be doing to tackle this very serious problem of mental ill health amongst | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
the prisoner population? I know my honourable friend speaks from a | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
position of knowledge on the subject and he is quite right and I am | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
coming to that very issue in a moment. The prison riot squad was | :39:39. | :39:46. | |
called out 343 times last year, once a day on average, compared to a 223 | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
times the year before and 118 times in 2010. Mobile phones, drugs, legal | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
highs, the list of what you can smuggle into prison at the moment is | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
elastic. According to one prisoner, at a prison the previous Lord | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
Chancellor called an excellent model for the future, it was easier to get | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
drugs they are and to get soap, so there are some restrictions. Earlier | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
this month, seven officers reported suffering ill effects from | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
inadvertently inhaling legal highs. You could not make that up. It would | :40:20. | :40:28. | |
be remiss at this point took place on the record that the side effects | :40:29. | :40:37. | |
of thousands is Bill made possessions a criminal offence, and | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
they think he welcomes that. -- and I think he welcomed that. The issue | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
we are dealing with here is smuggling contraband into prison. | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
There is also an increasing number of drones being used. Figures | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
released on Monday by the presence Minister showed it 25% of prisoners | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
are in ever crowded cells, and this rises to over 80% in some presence. | :41:02. | :41:08. | |
It is sometimes exacerbated by a extremely poor environments and | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
squalid conditions. This had one member of staff saying that he would | :41:13. | :41:19. | |
not keep a dog in wormwood scrubs. In the last 25 years, the prison | :41:20. | :41:27. | |
population has almost doubled. It is projected to increase to 90,000 by | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
2020. Staff are already struggling following cuts on an unprecedented | :41:32. | :41:40. | |
scale. 9760 fewer operational prison staff and in 2010, nearly 5,000 | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
fewer prison officers since 2010, 250 prison governors resigned or | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
moved jobs in the last five years. An education, the prisoner education | :41:52. | :41:53. | |
trust reports that prisoners tell them they had to choose between | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
going to the library and going to the shower because of the lack of | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
staff to escort them. Nearly half of prisoners report having no | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
qualifications and 22% of prisoners say they have been permanently | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
excluded from school. The Lord Chancellor appointed someone to | :42:10. | :42:17. | |
behead a prisoner education. Perhaps he can hear about -- to head | :42:18. | :42:25. | |
prisoner education. 60% of prisoners who took their own last last year | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
were not receiving assistance under proper processes, which are supposed | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
to identify those prisoners who are at a heightened risk of suicide or | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
self harm. I will give way. Thank you for giving way. I have a | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
constituency that has two prisons. There is one privately run facility | :42:45. | :42:52. | |
and then another one, and but have been inspected, and in both | :42:53. | :42:54. | |
inspections, there was understaffing. Does he think that | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
some of the issues he is identifying are due to staffing numbers in | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
prisons being at their lowest in living memory? I think cuts in staff | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
are at the heart of some of the problems being identified. There are | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
restrictions on work and education and association, and this is leading | :43:18. | :43:19. | |
to increased violence and to increase the poor behaviour in | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
prisons and it is a very short-sighted development which I | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
think the government realises perhaps too late. Turning to | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
probation and reoffending, figures have revealed that almost one in ten | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
offenders are convicted of an offence within 18 days of release. | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
The probation and sectors report on the limitation of transforming | :43:43. | :43:44. | |
rehabilitation has been published on the 15th of January. It highlighted | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
the disparity in performance between the national probation service, | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
which is -- and the 21, the privation companies managed by | :43:56. | :44:04. | |
private providers. For the MPs, the figure was less than one fifth of | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
the bond child protection, safeguarding on home visits,... | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
Earlier this month, the Lord Chancellor stopped publishing | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
figures on this. There were hundreds of experience probation staff being | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
laid off across the country to promote the bottom line. Let me turn | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
to the youth estate, and particularly the role of G4S. We | :44:34. | :44:42. | |
welcome the fact that some prisons have been pets into special | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
measures. -- have been put. By also would like -- I also would like... | :44:49. | :44:57. | |
There looks to be a part failure by G4S. I have written to the Serious | :44:58. | :45:05. | |
Fraud Office to ask they investigate allegations that his incidences of | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
disorder were concealed to avoid G4S avoiding fines on its contract. | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
There is an ongoing investigation going into the tagging contracts for | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
financial gain. G4S has a truly dismal record of managing public | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
contracts here and abroad. At one prison, six staff were dismissed and | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
the contract terminated this September, following an inspection | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
support that said some staff were on drugs while on duty and behaved | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
extremely appropriately with young people. The company taking over the | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
contract is not in this country because they are in origin the US | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
prison firm and as such they have resided over a write in an Arizona | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
State prison and run eight usability in Mississippi which a judge | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
described as periodic mayhem and staffing an attitude which Leeds to | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
perpetual danger to inmates and staff. | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
Some of the directors helped set up Abreu. In Baghdad. There has been an | :46:12. | :46:27. | |
inquiry called for comment -- there has been an inquiry called into | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
this. Thank you for giving way. On the Justice Committee, we | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
interviewed the chief inspector and found his answers on ministerial | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
interference were very interesting. As he agree with me that, to the | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
outside world, the fact that this contract is not being renewed makes | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
it looks like he was doing an effective job in helping the | :46:49. | :46:55. | |
Ministry of Justice to account? -- girl holding. My honourable friend | :46:56. | :47:02. | |
makes an actually good points. If the Lord Chancellor is a prison | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
reformer, we are prepared to work with him. He could start with a | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
Prison Reform Trust report on correction care that looks at | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
successful models around the world. Successful prisons are becoming | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
smaller, more focused and more rooted locally, which is why the | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
Lord Chancellor was right to abandon plans for his predecessors newborn | :47:27. | :47:36. | |
still. We are it is -- new or stove. If the consequence is that prisons | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
are built a long way from friends and family or we move from local | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
prisons to Titans prisons, that is its own drawbacks. We need prison | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
watchdogs with Realty and real independence. The outgoing inspector | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
has done a great job in spite not because of the government. To take | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
my honourable friend's point, the report last week that the MO J have | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
tried to control or Muslim were outrageous. -- or muscle pain. | :48:05. | :48:12. | |
Let's use this opportunity to shake things up. We need a stronger, more | :48:13. | :48:22. | |
independent inspectorate, able to produce reports with total | :48:23. | :48:24. | |
independence from the Ministry of Justice and conduct more frequent | :48:25. | :48:34. | |
and unannounced inspections. He paints a very bleak picture, and of | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
course, we must always do more, but does he accept that in a recent | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
chief inspector import, it was stated that the condition for | :48:44. | :48:46. | |
outcomes for women has impaired and the number of children in custody | :48:47. | :48:53. | |
has gone down? I accept what the honourable lady has said. I am | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
painting a realistic picture because I think that needs to be the | :48:57. | :48:58. | |
starting point for the improvement and I think members on both sides | :48:59. | :49:06. | |
would agree. The decline in youth custody is extremely impressive. It | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
has happened under successive governments and has gone down from a | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
figure of over 3000 to under 1000 now, but we are concerned about the | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
conditions and treatment of those young people who are still in | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
custody and the type of facility they are in, and the incidences we | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
have seen at Midway and elsewhere are an example of the fact that | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
things are failing in that sector as much as they are elsewhere. As my | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
honourable friend of the Member for Darlington said, too often, in | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
response to prison reports, too often we see the response to a poor | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
inspection report centre on the appointment of a new governor or the | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
assertion that things have improved dramatically since the poor | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
inspection took place. It is time we put much greater effort into | :49:57. | :49:59. | |
preventing people getting involved in crime in the first place. A | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
renewed focus on education and stepping into the rock young people | :50:04. | :50:10. | |
from a life of crime, we must do better for trans people in our | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
system. The dying for Justice report by the Institute of race relations | :50:15. | :50:21. | |
and the Harris review both reveal a lapse -- both reveal over | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
representations in some sectors. Yesterday I spoke at a meeting here | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
about the discriminatory effects of enterprise charges on certain | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
individuals and groups and asked the Lord Chancellor to investigate that | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
area of law as his predecessor failed to do. In light of the number | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
of people who wish to speak, I am going to terminate my remarks here, | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
but let me do so by saying I welcome the change in tone on prisons since | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
the Lord Chancellor's appointment, but so far, that is about all it is. | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
It is possible to be tough on crime, to put the protection of the public | :51:01. | :51:07. | |
first, as well as rehabilitation, but it is also true, that the agree | :51:08. | :51:17. | |
of civilization and society can be judged by entering its prisons. It | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
is in the self interest of every prison that prisoners having served | :51:24. | :51:26. | |
their time become productive members of society and do not continue to | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
pose a risk through reoffending. The Lord Chancellor may not be a muesli | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
muncher, as he put it yesterday, but he is the Minister for porridge, and | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
it is about time he served up something substantial. | :51:41. | :51:51. | |
Secretary of State for justice. The question is as on the order paper. | :51:52. | :52:05. | |
Thank you, can I congratulate... Coming from Aberdeen, porridge is | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
not necessarily something we consider an attractive! The member | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
from Shipley may be relieved to hear. Firstly, I congratulate the | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
member for Hammersmith on securing this debate and I can thank him for | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
the serious way he laid up the scale of the challenge which raises my | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
department and all of us in the house. He drew attention to the | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
fourth debate on this and he was absently right to draw attention to | :52:37. | :52:39. | |
the excellent debate the House of Lords had last week. It was a debate | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
on emotion initiated by Lord Fowler, a former Conservative Cabinet | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
minister and it's striking how many colleagues are here today. It's | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
important that across the house we recognise the cause of prison reform | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
is one that is shared by people from every party and should be Ricardo -- | :52:59. | :53:04. | |
regarded as the province of any particular organisation. Can I also, | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
in thanking them, draw attention to the fact both the member for | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
Hammersmith and most speakers in the House of Lords also took the | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
opportunity in the time allowed to thank those who work in our prisons. | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
It is important we all place on the record come if we have time, that we | :53:23. | :53:30. | |
all place our gratitude for the carriage and arduous nests of those | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
who work in a prisons, not just prison officers but teachers and | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
others and I will give way in a second. I had the opportunity to | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
visit Manchester prison, Strangeways as it used to be known with my | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
colleague and I talked to a young man who worked in the segregation | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
unit and I asked why he chose to work with these offenders and he | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
explained that he came from a part of the city particularly affected by | :53:56. | :54:01. | |
crime. He wanted to do something in his own career and profession to | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
help make his community safer. The reason he chose to work there was | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
because he believes the relationships he could form there | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
might be able to change their lives for the better. And to make his | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
community safer. That idealism is typical of those who work in the | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
prisons and reinforces an essential point, the quality of the | :54:25. | :54:26. | |
relationship between those who work in the prisons and those for whom | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
they care is not soft or in any way a retreat from public safety, it is | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
critical to ensuring public safety. I give way. The minister may be | :54:37. | :54:43. | |
aware that the number of attacks on our prison staff has increased by | :54:44. | :54:50. | |
42%, these range from severe cuts to damages to internal organs and | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
fractures as well. In order to keep people working in a prisons so hard | :54:55. | :55:00. | |
as he outlines, witty order a review into looking at safety at work for | :55:01. | :55:07. | |
prison staff? She makes a fair point, and I don't deny the scale of | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
the problem outlined in the statistics she deployed or those | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
others deploy and it is the case that the service is running a | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
violent reduction programme studying why it is there has been this | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
upsurge in violence, it is important to bear in mind there are some | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
factors acknowledged by both sides that contribute to that, the pattern | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
of offenders, those in prison contain more because of violent and | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
other offences and it is also the case that the spread of new | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
psychoactive substances, misleadingly called legal highs but | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
they are lethal highs has contributed to a lack of | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
self-control, psychosis increased mental health problems and violence. | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
There are difficult choices to take to ensure we can limit the | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
widespread availability of these drugs and keep people safe and I | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
will discuss those in a moment. I want to stress that I do agree we | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
face a problem, I do not use the word crisis and there would not like | :56:09. | :56:13. | |
to use that word because I think it's potentially undermines the | :56:14. | :56:15. | |
morale of those working in the prisons and secondly it might draw | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
attention away to the incremental changes we need to make which can | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
add up together to a significant programme of prison reform. If we | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
allow ourselves to be panicked by headlines and to be scared into | :56:33. | :56:37. | |
overreaction then we may not be able to pursue the solid incremental | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
steps we need to take to improve the situation. I was struck by the fact | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
the member for Liverpool Walton was concerned about numbers in the | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
prisons and it is understandable that for those of us who do care | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
about not just the safety of staff but the effectiveness of the prison | :57:00. | :57:06. | |
regime, but I say in the last year there has been an increase of 500 in | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
the number of prison officers and also there is no absolute | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
correlation between the number of prison officers between the nature | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
of the regime and instances of violence. I'm not denying that we | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
need to ensure prisons are properly staffed and we need to keep prison | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
officers safe but the nature of the security in prison is a consequence | :57:32. | :57:38. | |
of a number of factors. I give way. He is right, not only should there | :57:39. | :57:41. | |
be safe staffing levels but we have a duty of care to ensure there are | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
safe staffing levels and it was the Inspector of prisons who identified | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
the correlation between low staff numbers and the propensity for drugs | :57:53. | :57:58. | |
on the prison estate. The honourable member is right to say that we do | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
need to be vigilant about making sure we have not just the people in | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
place but the training to support them to deal with the problem. The | :58:07. | :58:09. | |
fact he mentions the Chief Inspector of prisons lets me repeat that I'm | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
grateful to Nick Hardwick for the role he played, it is not | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
comfortable reading for someone in my job to read his latest annual | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
report but I would rather we had someone who told us the truth and | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
insured we performed our duties as elected representatives and as | :58:30. | :58:33. | |
ministers in the full knowledge of the truth than someone who felt that | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
they had to varnish or edit the truth. While Nick Hardwick and I do | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
not come from the same place on the ideological spectrum, it is because | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
I am committed to using every talented voice and experienced pair | :58:50. | :58:53. | |
of hands I can to improve the prison system but I'm delighted he accepted | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
my invitation to chair the parole board. I also wanted to stress that | :58:58. | :59:02. | |
while understandably in an opposition Day debate the member for | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
Hammersmith will point the finger at some of the failings he alleges are | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
unique to the Conservatives and it is understandable he will look at | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
the trends that appeared to have worsened under a Conservative | :59:17. | :59:23. | |
government, it is appropriate to recognise there were problems as my | :59:24. | :59:27. | |
right honourable friend the member for Market Harborough announced and | :59:28. | :59:32. | |
the labour as well. Reoffending, a real index of how effective our | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
prisons are is broadly unchanged. I do not say that as a partisan point, | :59:38. | :59:42. | |
I want to emphasise the difficulties all of space in improving the prison | :59:43. | :59:50. | |
and probation service. In 2946% of those serving custodial sentences | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
reoffended, the figure now is 45.1. If I wanted to make a partisan | :59:55. | :59:58. | |
point, I would say it declined but the difference is insignificant. I | :59:59. | :00:06. | |
think he is making an important point about reoffending and I wonder | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
if he considered the suggestion I made about merging probation with | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
the police so offender management outside the prison estate becomes | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
the responsibility of the police who in the end are picking up the pieces | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
and whether we might see a step change in the numbers he outlines if | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
we made that move as well as a large financial saving. I thank him for | :00:27. | :00:34. | |
the work he did as Deputy Mayor of London he was responsible for the | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
Mayor office for crime and she contributed to the reduction in | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
knife crime on the streets. Prisons and probation is cannot work | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
effectively unless there is close working relationships with the | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
police service. I do caution a change at this point of the kind he | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
makes. It is a fascinating idea, it has been put to me by others whom I | :00:58. | :01:04. | |
respect but were 12 months into the transforming rehabilitation | :01:05. | :01:05. | |
programme initiated by my predecessor and it is only | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
appropriate we acknowledge that the programme has seen an increase in | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
the number of front line officers again of more than 500, it has | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
brought in commercial expertise but also the charitable and voluntary | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
sector and for the first time there is a direct requirement to provide | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
support for those prisoners who leave after serving sentences of 12 | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
months or less. I think that is a humane and wise decision on the part | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
of my predecessor because we know that it is those people who spend | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
swords at -- shorter sentences are likely to reoffend and we can debate | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
the consequences they tried that but what is undeniable is that if | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
someone has served a shorter sentence and if they are part of | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
that cohort to reoffend they deserve the support of probation just as | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
much if not more than other offenders. The situation that | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
prevailed where these offenders would get ?46 and be left to their | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
own devices as they went to the prison gate has been replaced by my | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
predecessor and it is only appropriate this house, whatever | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
other criticisms acknowledge that was a step forward which he was | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
responsible for. I'm grateful. He is right to highlight the persistent | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
failure of improving those reoffending rates. Part of the | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
challenge for successfully rehabilitating a prisoner is making | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
sure their health and welfare is looked after whilst they are in | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
prison but also when they are released that there is adequate | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
support in the community for those mental health needs. What more does | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
he think should be done that isn't being done? He makes a good point | :02:56. | :03:06. | |
and let me answer it by saying more about my analysis and shared view on | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
the front bench about what contributes to crime and how we | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
might reduce it. There are... More than 85,000 people in prison, 5000 | :03:17. | :03:25. | |
of them are female, almost as many are foreign national offenders and | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
you want to reduce that by having many serving sentences abroad. Of | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
the remainder, there are some who have made a conscious decision to do | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
the wrong thing. They have crossed a moral line and society has to make | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
it clear with a serious punishment that they should not be let out. It | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
isn't that they are a danger to others, we need to enforce the | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
principal, the bright line between right and wrong. There are others in | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
the prison system who will be suffering from mental health | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
problems, sometimes serious personality disorders and while they | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
pose a danger to the public, they also pose a danger to themselves and | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
we need to ensure we improve what has been called diversion and | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
liaison, the early detection to make sure there was an appropriate | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
solution and if we do need to keep them safe whether in a secure | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
hospital or prison, we need to ensure the mental health provision | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
for them and one thing I've done is talk to the Secretary of State for | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
health, the minister for prisons and I'm due to talk to Simon Stephens to | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
ensure we can develop AIDS was -- more sophisticated approach. I'm | :04:40. | :04:47. | |
grateful for the work from Lord Bradley whose work contains a number | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
of powerful recommendations. I have done some work in my local area with | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
a veterans group suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. We | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
have dinner at work in the United States and one example I have is a | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
treatment coach, the best example, the first one set up and out of 300 | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
cases not one of them reoffended. Could I ask the Secretary of State | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
would he be prepared to meet with people who are involved in this work | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
to try to see if we can make this work in everybody's interest? It is | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
a good point, firstly it is over to the case that we take seriously the | :05:30. | :05:37. | |
position of veterans of the system, my colleague at the behest of my | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
predecessor did a report into the care of those offenders and it is | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
the case the minister of State in my department is carrying forward that | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
work and in particular is working with care after combat, a charity | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
dealing with offenders who have been in the military and the point about | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
problem-solving is powerful. I would be more than happy to make | :05:59. | :06:18. | |
sure the Minister talks to the honourable member. This brings me | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
onto a third point. There are some people in our prisons who deserve to | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
be there because they have done wrong. Yes, there are people in our | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
prisons you are there because of mental health or personality | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
disorders. Then there are other people who have made profound | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
mistakes, who have crossed the line, who have committed crimes, but to | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
use actions deserve to be placed in context. Not for a moment and my | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
suggesting that the pain a victim feels is any less as a result of the | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
difficult circumstances that some people have been brought up in, but | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
if we want to ensure that there are fewer victims in the future, that | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
there is less hurt, less pain, we need to ask ourselves, what was it | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
that led to that young man or woman into criminal activity, and in many | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
cases, it will be because that individual grew up in a home where | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
violence was the norm. They make have witnessed the mystic violence | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
in their -- domestic violence in their early years. There may have | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
been a failure to ensure that there was a loving attachments to a parent | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
or care to put them first. There could have been an absence of love | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
but also an absence of loving authority and no-one cared enough | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
about them to teach under difference between the -- teach them the | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
difference between right and wrong. They will go on to secondary school | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
but get reading and will find, in the culture of games and the | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
streets, a false calm Ruaidhri and a sense of self-esteem that they never | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
found anywhere else. -- false come Ruaidhri. Then that individual will | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
go on to commit crimes. Once they have broken the law, justice must be | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
done, but as well as ensuring that justice is done, we should ensure | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
that social justice is done on our streets, which means looking at some | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
of the root causes, family breakdown, substance abuse, domestic | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
violence, which contributes to the difficulties that these young people | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
grow up in, and of course, I am happy to give way. Might write on a | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
boyfriend is making a powerful point with which I agree. -- my right | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
honourable friend. Would he agree that some of these short sentences, | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
what the deceased people every page is alcohol? -- what he agree that | :08:48. | :08:56. | |
what ever the people over the edge is alcohol? | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
There is a much more effective treatment for this problem, which | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
removes alcohol and therefore removes offending. The Minister for | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
policing has been very closely involved in this. There has been a | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
significant current review Shin -- contribution made to prevent | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
reoffending. There are ways whereby individuals can be monitored in | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
order to ensure that they stick as far as possible to the straight and | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
narrow in a cheap and effective way that can and sure that they maintain | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
the links with work or with family or with education which are critical | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
to moving their lives. That takes me onto the particular challenge of the | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
honourable gentleman, that he made in his speech, what will we do about | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
things? I will be honest, I came into this job not expecting to be in | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
it. I found it fascinating, challenging and some of those with | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
whom I have worked inspiring. When I was in education, eye shadow for | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
three years, and they came to office with a clear plan. -- eye shadow. In | :10:09. | :10:17. | |
this job, I have deliver Lisette out to listen and learn and I have | :10:18. | :10:24. | |
deliver Lisette out... To explore the landscape for me. That is why I | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
have asked Sally Coates to look at education in our prison system and | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
her reports will be published in the next couple of months, and it is | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
already clear the money that was previously spent is now going to be | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
spent by us in a way that suits prisoners and the needs of offenders | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
and the needs of wider society rather than the requirements of a | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
further education framework that was not appropriate for all offenders. | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
More will be sent by Sally in due course. Charlie Taylor has devoted | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
most of his career to working with young people, and his review of the | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
youth estate has drawn preliminary lessons similar to those one up by | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
the members of Hammersmith. It is the case that in some cases it is | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
better for you the offenders to be cared for in smaller laces. They | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
also need a clear path towards educational attainment. When of the | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
problems we have is that for many educational attainment is capped in | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
the way that politicians have been funded and the way which educational | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
providers have been procured. There have been diet after diet after diet | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
of level two qualifications which initially give them a purpose under | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
nude hope but ultimately end up with them on a hamster wheel where. As | :11:50. | :11:58. | |
well as improving education, I have also asked my colleague to lead a | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
programme to ensure that we can get more prisoners working ruefully, | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
meaning building on success of organisations who have done so much | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
to recruit offenders. It means incarnating lessons. Many employers | :12:15. | :12:23. | |
find that's... It also means providing new incentives for prison | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
governors to give their inmates meaningful work, and that will mean | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
thinking hard about how we can expand the use of release on | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
temporary lessons. I think we need to give governors more power to | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
ensure that prisoners at a certain point in their sentence when the | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
governor is as sure as they can be that the individual's risk is | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
diminishing, giving them a chance to go out during the day to work or | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
acquire educational allocations to prepare them for life on the | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
outside. Almost every prisoner is going to be let out at some point. | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
You cannot keep every criminal in jail forever, and if we are going to | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
release prisoners at some white, far, far better that they have, by a | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
process of acclimatization and earth, learn what it is to work | :13:15. | :13:26. | |
responsibly and hard to get the requirements they need to get a new | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
start. We want to give governors more autonomy overall. Perhaps | :13:30. | :13:40. | |
colleagues in a prisoner of this Association -- prison Officer | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
Association and this might be a Trojan horse for a bigger role for | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
the private sector. I believe that the private sector has had something | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
to offer in prisons and that unites both front benches. There was a | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
growth under Labour and their are some private prisons that do an | :13:58. | :14:09. | |
exemplary job and which every review underlines that fact. | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
There needs to be more freedom within the state sector to deal what | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
needs to be done, and my model is the model of Academy principles, the | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
chief executives of the NHS trusts who have shown that with increased | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
autonomy and the structure of clear accountability they can achieve | :14:33. | :14:34. | |
significant improvements for the better. I begin by saying that I was | :14:35. | :14:42. | |
grateful for the tone in which this debate was opened by the honourable | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
gentleman and I am looking forward to reading as many of the | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
contributions as possible. Eye will have to leave at 530 but I hope to | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
return at 630. Every single contribution to this date matters. | :14:54. | :15:06. | |
-- to this debate. The prison population are individuals whom we | :15:07. | :15:08. | |
should not see as individuals but as potential assets. Many of them have | :15:09. | :15:17. | |
led broken lives. Many of them have brought pain and misery into the | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
lives of others. What we want to ensure that in the future they can | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
capture beaut to our society rather than bringing more pain and misery. | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
We are tough on crime and the Conservative Party and we appreciate | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
that really being tough on crime means being intellectually tough | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
enough to wrestle with the problem of why crime occurs and how you can | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
stop criminals offending again. What is truly soft on crime is being | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
intellectually soft and reaching for easy, simple sound bites instead of | :15:51. | :16:00. | |
intellectually rigorous solutions, and that is why I commend the prison | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
Reform programme to the House. Thank you. I welcome the opportunity to | :16:07. | :16:16. | |
speak in this Opposition Day debate. The concern that prisons are | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
becoming increasingly more dangerous for staff and prisoners is an issue | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
that must be addressed. On one hand, we have people you have an | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
incredibly tough job regulating and ensuring the safety of those within | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
prisons, and on the other hand, we have offenders who are themselves | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
vulnerable, especially in relation to their mental health. As such, the | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
claim by an outgoing chief inspector that prisons are at their worst for | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
ten years is alarming. Death in prison custody, incidents of self | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
harm, assaults on staff are great issues on and I believe that it is | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
important not only to tackle these issues, but to discover the root | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
causes and develop legislation that aims to curb negative behaviours. | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
For Scotland, prisons are a devout issue, and I believe that the two | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
approaches offenders in different ways. The approach in Scotland is | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
different than in England and Wales. We might be dealing with similar | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
challenges but we respond to offenders in different ways. The | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
strategy in Scotland reflects the reshaping of policy, and by large | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
accounts, the decision not to proceed with the women's prisons | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
shows that the government is listening and is concerned with | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
performing prisons to make them better for those who have served | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
this sentences and for those who were there. There will be a | :17:46. | :17:53. | |
tentative initials -- alternative initiatives to help reduce | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
reoffending. Reduction in reoffending is key to the strategy | :18:00. | :18:01. | |
in resolving the problems faced by the Prison Service and by society as | :18:02. | :18:09. | |
a whole. Reoffending costs around ?3 billion a year, creates victims, | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
damages, these and wastes potential. The Scottish Government recognises | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
the specific needs of female prisoners and has invested ?1.5 | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
million of community justice services for women and support | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
services for female offenders whichever been costed and based on | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
recommendations for the commission for women offenders, and this | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
includes access to intensive support to help overcome issues such as | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
alcohol, drugs, mental health and domestic abuse trauma. Evidence | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
shows that many of these issues can be the driver for offending | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
behaviour. The change in this policy has been widely accepted. The | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
director of operations in one justice organisation waste her | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
support for the Scottish Government plans, saying that the use of | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
credible alternatives for women in prison, many who have contract | :19:04. | :19:11. | |
issues him a focuses on the strong recovery and improved partnership | :19:12. | :19:13. | |
working and investment community based services offering an | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
encouraging way forward. The Scottish Government believes that | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
short-term prison sentences are effective. Rather than | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
community-based alternatives such as electronic monitoring, these can | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
help curb problems associated with present life, and this report has | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
already seen success in Scotland. The SNP's vision for Scottish penal | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
reform is trying to mitigate some of the effects of austerity by | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
vulnerable people. Through this reform, a safe and effective | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
alternative to the prison system is offered, and a focus on revocation, | :19:57. | :20:05. | |
and re-introduction, and this tackles the root causes of the very | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
issues that Labour are imposing in this motion today. I think my right | :20:09. | :20:16. | |
to shrug I think my right honourable friend said that some of the direct | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
-- my right honourable friend said that some of the dire | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
circumstances... 25 years ago, when I was Home Secretary, we had debates | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
like this when I was responsible for the prison system, and we haven't | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
gotten far enough since. I am glad to say that I think the positive new | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
impetus, positive new ideas, are coming from my friend the Lord | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
Chancellor, and I found the whole tone of his speech today, as I found | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
the tone of his speeches since he began, after studying the subject, | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
extremely reassuring. The prison system is what we | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
concentrate on because that is where the problems are. I agree with what | :21:03. | :21:10. | |
was said, it serves two purposes, one is retribution and punishment | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
for serious crime where people have deliberately decided for personal | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
advantage to defy the law and for people who commit very dangerous and | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
violent acts when they fail to keep self-control. Secondly, it is to try | :21:27. | :21:34. | |
to reform as many of the prisoners as it has inside to try to ensure | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
that as many as possible when they leave prison actually are cured of | :21:39. | :21:46. | |
their former behaviour, find a new purpose in life and do not offend | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
again. Every prisoner reformed means fewer crimes, fewer victims in | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
future than would otherwise have been the case. And I am delighted | :21:59. | :22:05. | |
that in his approach to his task, the Lord Chancellor has put | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
rehabilitation of offenders where the offender is prepared to take | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
advantage of the opportunities right at the forefront of his aims. I made | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
speeches in the last Parliament when I was Lord Chancellor covering much | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
of his ground and I won't repeat all of that. Those fascinated by my | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
ancient views can go back to them again. My right honourable friend | :22:32. | :22:38. | |
has said things on raising the standards of education in prison, we | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
-- far too many prisoners have not ever attained any basic standards of | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
literacy or new Morrissey. Raising the levels of skill training for | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
outside employment when far too many prisoners have never had a job in | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
their lives. Bringing yet more businesses in to join the existing | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
excellent businesses that have found they can give proper skills training | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
to prisoners in prison. Actually tackling drug abuse which we all | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
know remains scandalously high. Dealing with mental health, the | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
biggest single issue in raising the health care standards of people in | :23:20. | :23:26. | |
prison generally. All of that, I agree, and I support the enlightened | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
policies he puts forward. And this rehabilitation has been the agenda | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
of this government ever since we first were elected. So we look back | :23:37. | :23:44. | |
over so far and I concede that I am disappointed by the progress that we | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
have made. Actually, prison management nowadays is infinitely | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
better than it was 25 years ago. There are things that have improved, | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
the staff are very keen to see the progress that my right honourable | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
friend describes and there are successes in the treatment of women | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
offenders and young offenders, despite the problems in some | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
institutions as have been said. But the test that I apply is what | :24:14. | :24:21. | |
success have we achieved in rehabilitation? No one has shrunk | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
from the fact we still have to confess that 45% of offenders will | :24:26. | :24:34. | |
actually, adults, will reoffend within 12 months of being released. | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
And if you go back to those who've served shorter sentences the figure | :24:40. | :24:48. | |
is 58%. Which means that the prison system is not working as effectively | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
as it should to protect the honest citizens outside. One reason, no one | :24:54. | :25:02. | |
knows exactly why that remains so persistent, I remain strongly of the | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
view that one trouble is which is leading to the enlightened policy, | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
not delivering results and that is the test we should look at is there | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
are too many prisoners in the prisons. You cannot deliver these | :25:18. | :25:25. | |
policies in squalid, overcrowded slums where you do not have the | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
space nor the resources actually to deliver education, training and | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
proper health care and better attitudes of the kind we wish to | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
give. And I complained when I was Lord Chancellor that the prison | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
population had doubled since I was home secretary despite the fact that | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
the level of crime in the country had quite markedly dropped and I do | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
not think it was any relation between the two because crime drops | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
across the western world in those countries that have shortened their | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
incarceration rates as well. We have the highest incarceration rate in | :26:06. | :26:12. | |
Europe, second only to the United States where in many states now | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
they're making determined efforts with right-wing leadership to get | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
the incarceration rate down and to get out of the prisons the people | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
should be there. I look forward to hearing his views in the short time | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
available. I do not want to cut anybody out of this debate. I | :26:34. | :26:44. | |
believe that we should set out as one objective actually producing the | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
prison population and I say to my right honourable friend two is still | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
in his place that I set out to do that not only because I believe | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
there were people in prison who should not be there but it underpins | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
the very bold spending commitments that I offered to the Treasury which | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
they gratefully accepted and I proposed a 30% cut in the budget of | :27:06. | :27:15. | |
the Department partly based on getting down this ridiculously | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
excessive prison population. I got it sagging but it has gone up again. | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
It is where it was only got into office. I briefly say that you | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
should not shrink from prison reform sentencing reforms and Lord Justice | :27:32. | :27:41. | |
Tracey must face up to mandatory levels do not naturally meet the | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
very circumstances of cases. Develop better non-custodial sentences and | :27:49. | :27:55. | |
so on and there is a whole speech. I concentrate finally on suggesting | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
one positive suggestion where I think my right honourable friend | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
could proceed serving the cause of justice which above all we have to | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
follow and also meeting the needs of the moment in reducing unnecessary | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
overcrowding. I urge him to get rid of the last vestiges of | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
indeterminate sentences and those who are still in prison. They were | :28:22. | :28:28. | |
introduced in 2003, they took off surprisingly and I abolished them in | :28:29. | :28:38. | |
2012. I assumed that the idea sentences should be given where a | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
minimum tariff is given to reflect the crime that the prisoner would be | :28:43. | :28:50. | |
held in prison indefinitely until he was able to satisfy the parole board | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
that he was no longer a risk, I think the term is the risks are | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
manageable that actually once we repealed and abolish them, so no | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
more would receive the sentence we would not keep long those who were | :29:04. | :29:11. | |
all ready there serving sentences as they steadily earned their release. | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
That has not happened. When I was Lord Chancellor there were over 6000 | :29:17. | :29:24. | |
of them. The forecast was that will be eight or 9000 by 20 15. We | :29:25. | :29:34. | |
actually have over 4000 still there. Of those, three quarters have now | :29:35. | :29:41. | |
exceeded the tariff, the sentence, which the judge gave them for the | :29:42. | :29:49. | |
offence and one in five... I forget the figure now... A very high | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
proportion, a fifth, I think, have served five times the sentence they | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
were imposed and some will never be released. He has the power, I wanted | :30:01. | :30:07. | |
to get rid of the more together and let people reach the tariff was a | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
senior colleagues were nervous and cautious about that and I was not | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
allowed to take the step I wanted to achieve that. I took the power in | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
the bill, if studies the 2011 bill, has the power to alter the terms of | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
reference from the parole board. At the moment, the individual prisoner | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
has to satisfy, prove to the parole board that he poses no risk. There | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
is no prisoner in prison who could make any of us certain he would not | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
reoffend but we hope the most of them won't. And we should only keep | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
indefinitely some of them will stay for life if we are not careful, | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
those where there is a reason for believing they pose a current risk | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
when they depart. There are 4000 he could steadily more rapidly get rid | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
of, the easing of the burden on the pressures in the prison service | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
would help to achieve all of his goals, I hope he achieves them. If | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
he can deliver what he has decided to try to deliver, he will indeed be | :31:15. | :31:22. | |
a reforming Lord Chancellor. I will put a six minute labour after this | :31:23. | :31:30. | |
speaker. The debate has been civil, and let's hope that it remains so, | :31:31. | :31:38. | |
I'm not sure whether it will continue however I am reassured by | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
the civil tone of the Justice secretary who I have a lot of | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
respect for and the prisons minister who I have met on many occasions | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
with regards to issues in the prison nearest to my constituency. I think | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
the motion put forward by the opposition is well crafted and it | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
spelt out clearly the situation facing not just the prison service | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
but also the probation service and we have lacked a little bit on the | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
probation service so far as the contributions have been made. It is | :32:17. | :32:24. | |
absolutely clear that the prison service is in utter chaos. And I am | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
not looking to put the blame on anybody or put six fingers up saying | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
you have been in six years and I am not wanting anyone to say what did | :32:35. | :32:41. | |
you do then...? How do we put this issue right? It is in utter chaos | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
and I'm not bothered what anyone says because I have had people in my | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
constituency coming to see me, prisoners coming to see me and I | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
have had members of the public and teachers and chaplains and people | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
who work on the prison estate as well, members of the prison officers | :33:03. | :33:10. | |
Association. It is right to place on record a high praise for the men and | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
women in both the prison service and the probation service who do a | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
fantastic job under the most difficult of circumstances and it is | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
important they realise that people in this house understand the | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
problems that they face. But it wasn't just the individuals that | :33:29. | :33:38. | |
suggested the prison service had deteriorated, it was the chief | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
inspector of prisons in South who said that they were the worst he had | :33:43. | :33:50. | |
seen for ten years. And whilst the prison population continues to | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
increase, 85,000 plus now in the prisons which is at record levels, | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
at the same time a reduction if staff in the prison estate as well. | :34:02. | :34:09. | |
That surely has to be the recipe for disaster. More prisoners, less | :34:10. | :34:18. | |
people looking after them. And the Justice secretary said there were | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
500 new recruits in the past year or so but it is what happened before | :34:24. | :34:30. | |
then in terms of the reduction in staffing on the prison estate. And | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
what we lost them was lots of people who had tremendous experience in the | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
prison service. And the people that came in, the people that fills the | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
role is, in many ways are on low wages, terms and conditions and lack | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
any experience so what is an important occupation and we lost | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
that and we have not gained background back in the prison | :34:56. | :35:02. | |
service. So, I think we all, as politicians, have deep concerns with | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
regard to this. And I will tell you why, it's been mentioned all ready | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
but if you look at the bare statistics regarding to what is | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
happening in the service as we sit here, there were deaths in custody, | :35:18. | :35:26. | |
up 14%. Self harm is up 21%. Assault, prisoner on prisoner, up | :35:27. | :35:37. | |
13%. Assault on staff, 4156 staff assaulted by prisoners last year, | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
that is 20% increase, that has to horrify everyone. And serious | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
assault on staff, 572 and that is an increase which has been mentioned | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
all ready, 42%. At the very least, we should be ensuring that the | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
members of the prison service who are there doing the job but they are | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
paid to do should be safe in doing so. | :36:07. | :36:17. | |
The statistics are there, and we have seen the injuries that many of | :36:18. | :36:27. | |
them have received whilst doing a day's works to put shoes on the | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
children and bred on the table. We should be looking at ways and means | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
of ensuring that these statistics are greatly reduced. It has been | :36:39. | :36:45. | |
mentioned by the right honourable gentleman to reoffending rates, the | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
adult reoffending rate is now 45.8%. Unacceptable. The juvenile rate of | :36:51. | :36:58. | |
reoffending is now 66.5%. We have got to get to the bottom of this, | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
because if we do not, it will continue to increase, and there will | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
be further chaos. It is frightening. I am not being alarming, but I am | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
saying that the Prison Service is incomplete and under met them -- | :37:13. | :37:19. | |
meltdown, and it is in mayhem. I think we looked, mentioned the | :37:20. | :37:28. | |
privatsation of many prisons, and again, it was said, the opposition | :37:29. | :37:30. | |
privatised prisons and that happened. It is pointless for me to | :37:31. | :37:39. | |
stand here and try to raise his truck fax, because it happened. -- | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
historic facts. But it doesn't make it better to see what is happening | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
in some privatised prisons today. The prison nearest to my | :37:51. | :38:01. | |
constituency, there was a successful bidder and operator of the prison. | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
Immediately, the model was to reduce the workforce from 440 two 270. It | :38:07. | :38:14. | |
frightened that many people, there were rushes for redundancies and | :38:15. | :38:23. | |
many left the service. That is something we did not want to see. We | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
hear reports, these people who come to see me are frightened, we hear | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
reports about what is happening in the likes of HMP Northumberland, the | :38:36. | :38:45. | |
drugs, the spice. The spice must be unbelievable, and I am not sure if | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
anybody in here will have ever admitted to taking it, certainly I | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
have not, and it would not be my intention to do so, but they reckon | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
that the spice is rice, they reckon everybody in the prison is on spice, | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
and if you are not, something is wrong with you. How are they getting | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
this stuff in the prison? Why is it being allowed to escalate to the | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
proportions it has done? Someone mentioned before the new Bill that | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
went through Parliament, sorry, the one that is going through Parliament | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
with regards to legal highs. It doesn't matter whether these highs | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
or legal or illegal, we have got to stomp them out on the prison estate, | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
because it is causing problems in terms of violence and everything | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
else associated with the things that we are all discussing here today. | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
Alcohol is a huge problem. There is alcohol in the prisons. They are | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
making their own alcohol! I will tell you something else, not last | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
Christmas, but the Christmas before, there was a situation at HMP | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
Northumberland were there was an emergency situation where they could | :40:00. | :40:10. | |
not contact one of the prison officers. He was a man who had just | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
been employed and had not even been checked and he was one of the people | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
who had no experience, but he knew a few of the prisoners on it they were | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
his mates, and they could not contact him, this was on new year's | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
date, and they eventually went up on the wing, the doors were opened, | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
everyone was having a whale of a time, and it was not the prisoners | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
who were intoxicated, it was the prison officer, who was lying | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
intoxicated on the bed. The keys for the prison for the wing were lying | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
there for anybody to get a hold of, which is a cardinal sin. Iraizoz | :40:53. | :41:00. | |
these points with -- I raised these points with my right honourable | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
friend, the Minister for prisons. We have got people with mobile phones | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
are ranging crime from their prison cells. We have to stomp that out. We | :41:10. | :41:17. | |
have got bullying and intimidation like we have never seen before, and | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
another incident which happened at HMP Northumberland, which we need to | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
look at, is the fact that there was not enough prison staff to ensure | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
the segregation of vulnerable prisoners and ordinary, mainstream | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
prisoners, and it caused absolute mayhem, as you can understand. There | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
was a faeces thrown in the food of the vulnerable prisoners. They | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
cannot have that happening in a modern-day situation. I just want to | :41:47. | :41:55. | |
wrap up by saying, that this issue on prisons and probation, I hope | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
someone is looking towards speaking on the probation side of things, | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
because that is a fragmentation of the probation service that has been | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
caused, lots and lots of problems within the service itself since | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
hybridization, and that is something we need to look at. -- since | :42:14. | :42:21. | |
privatsation. It is a privilege to speak on what is an important | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
debate, and I recognise the serious tone that has been adopted | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
throughout. I particularly commend to the House that the immensely | :42:30. | :42:40. | |
important analysis by my right honourable friend is spot on, and I | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
are a much commend it to my honourable friends, not just as a | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
thorough and thoughtful piece of analysis, but also a profoundly | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
Conservative analysis as well. There is no monopoly between any of us | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
when it comes to prison reform. When I was a young barrister starting to | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
go into prison visits, something like 40 years ago, institutions like | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
Wandsworth, like wormwood scrubs, were unsatisfactory and not fit or | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
purpose then. They have not got better and the pressures have become | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
great. The pressures of overcrowding, the pressures of | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
contraband coming into prison existed then as well. Contraband has | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
long been an issue. What has changed is the technology and the means by | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
which contraband is brought in. These are long-standing issues and | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
the Lord Chancellor deserves credit for mentioning it, and in | :43:41. | :43:47. | |
particular, replacing that ageing estates, when it is impossible to | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
carry out serious work and deal with the very real mental health and | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
psychological issues that any prisoners have, which should be a | :43:55. | :44:05. | |
top priority. The justice select committee is currently carrying out | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
an inquiry concentrating on a young offender, which are a particularly | :44:11. | :44:18. | |
difficult set of the prison population. The review was actually | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
set up by request of the previous Lord Chancellor. The government has | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
responded to the review, and I would urge that the detail of that review, | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
which goes beyond the specifics shortly of young offenders and has | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
many other lessons, recognises and deserves a more detailed and | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
substantive response than we have seen so far. Safety in prisons is a | :44:45. | :44:54. | |
critical issue. I don't doubt the polity of prison staff that we have. | :44:55. | :45:04. | |
Many prisons have been visited. There are excellent people working | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
there. My concern sometimes, though him is that the senior management at | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
its operation does not always give the impression that it works through | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
in practice on the ground what sort of assurances are given to us in the | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
select committee or elsewhere. It is important that there is a generally | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
flexible and responsive management system. I think there is scope for | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
further review on the way in which the objectives are delivered in | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
practice, and I am sure that the new chief inspector will have a strategy | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
she will want to discuss with the Lord Chancellor in relation to that | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
in a few months. -- that he will want. There has been evidence that | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
we took from the families of young people who had died in custody. It | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
was profoundly moving, frankly, and it demonstrated that there have been | :46:00. | :46:06. | |
some areas repeated and needless feelings, sharing information, | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
acting in decisively on information which could have otherwise been | :46:12. | :46:13. | |
addressed, these are things which can be put right fairly basically. | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
There are successes in the prison estate and failures, and both are | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
not unique to either privatised or publicly run prisons. We have to be | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
realistic and not simplistic about that. We welcome the evidence that | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
has been given by the Minister for prisons and the Chief Executive but | :46:34. | :46:42. | |
we feel there needs to be a specific programme with action plans for | :46:43. | :46:45. | |
tackling the issues of violence and self harm in prisons, and certainly, | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
we must have more emphasis on rehabilitation. My right honourable | :46:50. | :46:58. | |
friend was right to refer to these sentences. I was at the same event | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
as a Shadow Minister yesterday were these points were made, and this is | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
something we could start work on very stiffly. We should also | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
recognise the proper structure of life in prison and proper meaningful | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
work is important. We should be looking to see if we can remove some | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
of the legal constraints which event meaningful and paid employment | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
taking place -- perhaps we could see -- taking faith. Perhaps money could | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
be set aside for prisoners and their families upon release. I hope that | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
the Minister will be able to give us a more detail as they go forward as | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
to how that might be achieved. Finally, it is important that we | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
have a robust inspectorate to ensure compliance. I wish the new inspector | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
well and I hope that we will see fleets they put in place the | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
protocol that was referred to when they permanent Secretary and the | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
outgoing chief inspector gave evidence to us very recently to make | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
sure that resourcing and independence is not an issue in | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
enabling the inspectorate to deliver its important work. All in all, this | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
is an important debate and an important one. Those who believe in | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
genuine reform and not simplistic slogan arising, those who have... | :48:19. | :48:28. | |
Order. Thank you. I would like to thank my right honourable friend the | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
member from Hammersmith for his tenacity in at last securing this | :48:33. | :48:39. | |
Opposition Day debate on prisons. In preparing this speech, I was | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
thinking about the different angles I could possibly go at this topic | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
from, and you could pick radicalisation, women offenders, | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
mental health, drugs, violence, opportunities for early intervention | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
and diversion, young people, there are plenty of ways to approach the | :48:57. | :49:03. | |
topic of prisons, but I want to talk about staff. I have spent five years | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
shadowing the prison ministers and I have visited prisons very regularly, | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
and met with hundreds of prison staff, and with offenders as well, | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
and also with victims of crime, and they cannot tell you how poorly | :49:19. | :49:26. | |
understood, undervalued and ignored our criminal justice workforce feel | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
and indeed have become, and this has brought home to me, in its darkest | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
possible way, when custody officer Lorraine a Barwell lost her life at | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
the hands of a prisoner at work. When serving, Armed Forces Isabel, | :49:43. | :49:54. | |
in their line of duty, was their lives, their names, quite rightly | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
are read out at the beginning of Prime Minister's Questions each | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
week. No such honour was afforded to Lorraine, and I know that no | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
disrespect was intended, but I think this does illustrate a disparity in | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
the esteem with which prison officers are held when compared to | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
other uniformed services, and we in this House, with an interest in | :50:20. | :50:22. | |
prisons, and it is great that we have such an interest, with an | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
interest in prisons policy, advocates ability and duty to change | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
this, and change it, I think we must. There is no doubt in my mind | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
that our prisons are in a dreadful state, but with the right leadership | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
from the government, it is prison staff that hold the key to unlocking | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
the rehabilitation revolution that we all want. Several members of the | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
Sid said, it is all very well promoting this today, but we could | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
have presented this motion six years ago. They should take absolutely no | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
pride or comfort in that fact whatsoever. I want to be part of a | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
Parliament where we see improvement. That opportunity and the last five | :51:09. | :51:25. | |
years has been completely wasted. | :51:26. | :51:28. |