Browse content similar to 10/02/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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I hope the House will join me in mum coming to the Sergeant 's chair the | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
new Sergeant on the occasion of his first Prime Minister's Questions. An | :00:08. | :00:17. | |
exceptional day and an exceptional response. Secondly, I hope the House | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
might wish to join me and congratulations very warmly Kim | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
Sears and Andy Murray on the birth of their baby daughter. Order, | :00:28. | :00:34. | |
order. Motion on the Committee of Selection. The question is as on the | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
order paper. Questions to the Secretary of State | :00:40. | :00:56. | |
for Scotland. We don't take points of order now. Later. Points of order | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
come after questions and statements. We start with questions. I am sure | :01:04. | :01:12. | |
everyone, particularly in Scotland, will share your warm wishes to Andy | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
Murray and Kim Sears on the birth of their daughter. Latest official | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
statistics published last month showed that in 2014, around 42% of | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
all Scottish international exports were destined for countries within | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
the European Union, the values of these were estimated at around ?11.6 | :01:34. | :01:41. | |
billion. Does the Secretary of State agree with me that the package the | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
Prime Minister will be discussing in more detail with his colleagues on | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
the European Council will bring about much-needed reform and | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
actually be a catalyst for more performing the future making it | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
quite clear the single market is good for the UK and good for | :01:57. | :02:05. | |
Scotland. In a reformed EU, we could have the best of both worlds. Access | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
to the single market while not being a member of the euro or Schengen. | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
And I believe that would be good for Scotland and the rest of the UK. | :02:15. | :02:25. | |
Single European market and the ability to impact the legislation | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
that governs it is hugely important to the Scottish economy, especially | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
the exporting sectors such as whiskey. All the Secretary of State | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
confirm that regardless of the ongoing biggest nations, he will | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
personally campaign for Scotland and the UK to remain within the EU. The | :02:41. | :02:48. | |
honourable gentleman will know, and I'm sure will be pleased to have | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
heard that the leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
party has expressed exactly that position. I get a second bite at the | :02:56. | :03:06. | |
cherry. Perhaps at the end of the question, he can answer whether he | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
will support Scotland and the UK remaining in the EU? Making a | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
positive case for remaining in the EU will be crucial in the weeks and | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
months ahead so will the Secretary of State give a commitment not to | :03:18. | :03:27. | |
repeat the grinding negativity, and repeat ridiculous scare stories such | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
as those from the Prime Minister about refugees and the immigrant | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
camp in Calais. I will make my position known when the negotiations | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
have been concluded. I make this offer to the honourable gentleman, | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
if the reform package goes ahead and if I am campaigning to keep Scotland | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
in the United Kingdom, I would be delighted to join him, and the First | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
Minister, on a platform to make that case. I had the pleasure last night | :03:57. | :04:05. | |
of meeting with the Scotch Whisky Association who introduced me to | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
some of the finer products from across the border. Would the | :04:09. | :04:25. | |
Minister ... Expansion into new markets which have nothing to do | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
with the EU is the growth area for the whiskey industry. There arch and | :04:29. | :04:35. | |
as opportunities for the development of the Scotch whiskey industry and | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
it is an issue on which I think both the Scottish Government, UK | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
Government, all parties in this House are united. We recently, when | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
the president of China what here in the UK, had the opportunity to | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
present the President's wife with her favourite bottle of malt whiskey | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
from Scotland and both the president and his good lady wife were able to | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
set out how important that product is to developing markets in China. I | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
wonder if the Secretary of State could tell me what discussions he | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
has had with Scottish businesses about the possibility of the UK exit | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
from the EU and what concerns they have raised about the impact this | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
would have on their ability to access and export to single markets? | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
The clearest message I get from businesses in Scotland is that they | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
want a short EU referendum campaign so that we have the minimum amount | :05:34. | :05:45. | |
of uncertainty. Question number two. I have regular discussions with the | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
Deputy First Minister to discuss the Frisco framework, the joint ticks | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
decker committee met on Monday and these are on going. The First | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
Minister route to the Prime Minister and set out areas where agreements | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
needs to be reached. He listed those as capital and revenue borrowing, | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
fiscal oversight and dispute resolution. Can the Secretary of | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
State confirm these are all the outstanding issues where agreements | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
needs to be reached? Then nature of the discussions is that it was | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
agreed at the start until everything is agreed, nothing is agreed. | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
Considerable progress has been made on all of those issues. I'd very | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
much welcome what the First Minister says in that letter, that the | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
finance secretary is going to bring forward revised proposals from the | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
Scottish Government. That is what a negotiation involves, it involves | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
both parties bringing forward revised proposals as the negotiation | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
progresses and that is exactly what the UK Government is committed to | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
doing. The starting point of the fiscal framework discussions is the | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
Barnett Formula which means that Scotland has 15% extra public | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
spending per capita than the UK as an average. Could the Secretary of | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
State informed the House whether he believes that differential will | :07:10. | :07:16. | |
maintain in perpetuity? The honourable gentleman's views on the | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
Barnett Formula are well-known. I don't agree with them, nor does the | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
government. The government's position is that the Barnett Formula | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
will remain, even in the fiscal framework environment. The | :07:28. | :07:37. | |
negotiations about the fiscal framework are a very sensitive and | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
fragile state. We have to be careful about the language that is used. The | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
Secretary of State was using in which like Luke is ludicrous -- I | :07:46. | :07:54. | |
would like ludicrous. It is profoundly unhelpful. If he has | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
nothing to offer these negotiations and discussions, will he offer to | :08:00. | :08:11. | |
stay out of it? I find it ought to take a lecture from that particular | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
honourable gentleman on moderate language. But I don't think anybody | :08:15. | :08:23. | |
can doubt my commitment to ensuring that we have a negotiated fiscal | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
framework. I am delighted that the First Minister in her letter to the | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
Prime Minister set out her strong commitment to achieve that | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
agreement. That is the Prime Minister's position. As I said, both | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
sides have done the dance, let's do the deal. With my right honourable | :08:43. | :08:49. | |
friend agree that if we are to have a successful devolution agreement | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
that we all want, it does need a firm and sensible framework, fiscal | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
discipline, so it will last and stand the test of will be on no | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
economic issues that may hit the country. Can he assure us that we | :09:05. | :09:12. | |
won't repeat the mistakes of Spain where devolved provinces run up | :09:13. | :09:14. | |
unsustainable debts which they would then blame on Madrid and cause | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
difficulty for the Spanish government seeking recovery? Has my | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
honourable friend will recognise, the settlement within Spain is quite | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
different. I do agree with him on the need for the sustainability of | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
the fiscal framework. What the government has made quite clear in | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
terms of the negotiations, is our willingness to see the arrangements, | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
reviewed within a few years to make sure that they do stand up to the | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
scrutiny of being fed to Scotland and fair to the rest of the UK. I'd | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
like to join you in congratulating Andy Murray and Kim Sears on the | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
birth of their baby daughter. Actually, their baby daughter may be | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
winning Wimbledon by the time we get a deal on the fiscal framework. The | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
UK and Scottish governments have been negotiating for over six | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
months. Longer than it took to negotiate the Scotland Bill itself, | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
to strike the historic international climate change agreement and longer | :10:16. | :10:25. | |
it took the G20 leaders to agree on the global economy. Can the | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
Secretary of State tell the House why he thinks the per capita index | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
model isn't the appropriate for the block grant? | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
I have made it clear that we're not going to have the detailed | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
negotiation in relation to this matter on the floor of this House. | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
What I said earlier was I very much welcome the fact that the First | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
Minister has indicated that the Scottish Government is going to | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
bring forward a revised proposal, through the negotiations we have | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
brought forward proposals, and I believe we are in touching distance | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
of striking a deal and me not to miss the people do so. The Secretary | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
of State says he will not provide a running commentary on the fiscal | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
framework, while both governments are providing that very common to | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
the. A respected economist has said, I do not understand why it should be | :11:21. | :11:27. | |
such a huge stumbling lock, and a constitutional expert has said, the | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
fiscal framework is a solvable problem. The Prime Minister has | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
spent months going around Europe, trying to strike a deal on EU law, | :11:36. | :11:43. | |
and is it not in time -- about time he gets involved in the Sun spends | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
as much time on this? The Prime Minister is committed to securing a | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
deal. He has spoken to Nicola Sturgeon on this issue. They have | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
had a productive discussion and exchange of letters, but both of | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
them are clear that they want to get a deal, and I am confident that with | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
the position set out in the letter from the First Minister, the | :12:09. | :12:17. | |
Scottish Government are actively engaging in that process, as are we, | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
and we will be able to get that deal. On the 28th of January, the | :12:21. | :12:28. | |
Prime Minister held discussions with industry representatives in Aberdeen | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
on further support for the North Sea. As a member of the group on oil | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
and gas, I also meet with key stakeholders on a regular basis. | :12:41. | :12:48. | |
Calor gas has its largest operational UK site in my | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
constituency. A number of residents in the Scottish Highlands and other | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
rural areas rely on Calor gas, who received a large part of the | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
Scottish gas supplies from the North Sea. Does my right honourable friend | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
agree that as a result of the support UK Government is able to | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
provide, we are in a much better place to absorb the following oil | :13:11. | :13:18. | |
prices had been the case if Scotland had been an independent country? I | :13:19. | :13:27. | |
do acknowledge the importance of Calor gas and those who supply of | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
the network energy. They are very important in rural Scotland. But on | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
his wider point, yes, he makes an important point about the ability of | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
the United Kingdom as a whole to absorb the changing oil price. What | :13:47. | :13:54. | |
discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Chancellor about | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
continued funding for seismic surveys on the UK continental shelf? | :13:59. | :14:07. | |
I am sure she welcomed the Prime Minister's announcement when he was | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
in Aberdeen of a ?20 million contribution for a second round of | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
new seismic surveys. The severity of the collapse in global oil prices | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
carries with it the danger that a number of fields in the North Sea | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
will suspend production and then perhaps never presume it. Given that | :14:30. | :14:37. | |
this would represent a serious loss of national assets and | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
infrastructure, may I invite the Secretary of State for Scotland to | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
have further discussions with the Chancellor in advance of the budget | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
to try to make sure that these fields are not lost for ever, but | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
remain an important part of our national economy? It will not | :14:55. | :15:02. | |
surprise him to know that that very issue was part of the discussion | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
with the Prime Minister, Fergus Ewing from the Scottish Government, | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
and representatives from the oil and gas industry in Aberdeen. The Prime | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
Minister made it very clear that he will look at specific requests are | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
proposals in relation to supporting the industry in the forthcoming | :15:22. | :15:32. | |
budget. With your permission I will take question four and nine | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
together. On behalf of the Secretary of State for work and Pensions | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
Committee with the Secretary of State for Scotland regularly to | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
discuss devolution of welfare programmes to the Scottish | :15:44. | :15:45. | |
Government, including a meeting yesterday where we discussed the | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
ever improving labour market in Scotland. I also have regular | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
meetings with my counterparts in the Scottish Government and we have a | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
joint ministerial working group. I will be speaking to model to the | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
Cabinet Secretary for the work and children and jump people in | :16:01. | :16:10. | |
Scotland. -- young people. In the Autumn Statement, funding was cut by | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
87% so the Scottish Government now has only ?7 million to deliver | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
services. Notwithstanding the acceptance that this was a | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
politically motivated decision, what does he say to my constituents in | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
one of the highest areas of deprivation in the United Kingdom, | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
who are, after all, the people this is going to impact most of all? I | :16:36. | :16:42. | |
would start by hoping that she will welcome the fact that in her | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
constituency employment kind has increased by 49% since 2010. We have | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
record levels of employment in Scotland. When it comes to | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
employment programmes, there will be greater devolution for the Scottish | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
Government in welfare, and when it comes to employment programmes we | :17:02. | :17:03. | |
would be happy to have discussions with the Scottish Government in | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
particular. Many of which will look at how we take employment programmes | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
further to support those out of work in Scotland who want to work. Due to | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
the changes from DLA to PIP, thousands of Scots are losing their | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
right to motor bill the vehicles. This is devastating in rural areas | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
where accessible public transport may be limited. Will this iniquitous | :17:30. | :17:38. | |
policy be ended? There will be new powers under the devolution deal | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
which will include top up payments which are still very much based on | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
welfare payments as well. It will be down to the Scottish Government to | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
start making these decisions. You have power is coming to you, you | :17:53. | :17:54. | |
have to start deciding how to use them. It was thanks to Labour peers | :17:55. | :18:03. | |
in the other place that an additional cack-handed approach to | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
tax credits were brought to an end. We know now that the government | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
wants to introduce changes which will leave 800,000 people on tax | :18:12. | :18:22. | |
credits worse off in April. How many people in Scotland will be affected? | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
As I previously said, when the House has discussed issues of welfare | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
changes, we have the bill going through the other place right now, | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
but the changes we are making are there to bring fairness and | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
stability to the welfare bill in this country. At the same time, | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
despite the figures that the honourable gentleman and the party | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
opposite mention constantly, it The employment rate in Scotland has | :18:51. | :19:08. | |
never been higher, and our support will build on this, recognising that | :19:09. | :19:16. | |
changes to the labour market -- gives value for money to the | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
taxpayer. We have many examples of businesses commercial operations | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
north of the border helps to sustain jobs locally, such as engineering | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
and transport companies. Does the Minister agree that Scotland creates | :19:30. | :19:40. | |
a great deal of employment across the whole of the United Kingdom? She | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
is right to say with record levels of poignant in Scotland, her | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
constituency has benefited from the crossover of employment | :19:51. | :19:51. | |
opportunities in her constituency and in Scotland. With our growing | :19:52. | :20:05. | |
economy, that will continue to grow. Scotland's youth and point is fact | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
its highest level since 2005. 7% higher than the rest of UK. Can the | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
Secretary of State reassure me that recommendations will be made to make | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
sure Scotland receives a fair level of funding for apprenticeships? I | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
would say to him, I did not fully hear his question, but I will take | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
that away and I understand the department will look at that. It is | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
a serious situation of ministers cannot hear the questions. It is a | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
discourtesy to the people of Scotland when we are discussing | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
these matters if questions cannot be heard. Let us have some order. I | :20:46. | :20:54. | |
have had discussions with the Department for Transport and others | :20:55. | :20:56. | |
to ensure that the closure of the lamington viaduct in my constituency | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
is addressed as quickly as possible. We are committed to working together | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
with parties to reopen the west Coast mainline in the first week of | :21:07. | :21:16. | |
March. Apologies for my lack of voice. The closure of the West Coast | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
mainline has a huge impact not only on the economy of southern Scotland, | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
but of Cumbria as well. It is a strategic crossing that many | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
constituents rely on. The Secretary of State says it will be open on the | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
first week of March. And he confirmed that the entirety will be | :21:35. | :21:43. | |
open by then? -- can he confirmed? I welcome her comments because she | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
will be aware that my own constituents who use Lockerbie | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
station at the people who are most affected by these changes. But we | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
are determined to get the West Coast mainline fully reopened in that | :21:56. | :22:04. | |
first week in March. The Prime Minister claims that he is going to | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
get a good deal for Britain in the European Union. With the Secretary | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
of State like to see the United Kingdom play the same role and at | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
the same level of powers in the EU that Scotland currently has, he | :22:18. | :22:26. | |
claims, in the UK? Related to the West Coast Main line, I of the | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
Secretary of State will give us an answer. The West Coast mainline is | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
one of the most important routes within the United Kingdom to Europe | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
via London. I have set out my position in relation to the EU | :22:45. | :22:52. | |
referendum. I think it is important that if the SNP genuinely wants | :22:53. | :22:54. | |
Scotland to remain in the EU than concentrate on process issues, they | :22:55. | :23:05. | |
get out and campaign for it. Mr Speaker, I do not know of the | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
honourable gentleman has had the opportunity to read my speech of | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
21st of December, where I set out that I fully support devolution of | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
power from Holyrood to local communities, as Lord Smith | :23:20. | :23:20. | |
recommended in his commission agreement. This is the | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
responsibility of the Scottish Parliament to implement, but I | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
encourage them to do so. Will the Secretary of State condemned those | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
who use devolution to actually centralise power in Holyrood, | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
whether that is the centralisation of the police, Fire Service, health | :23:42. | :23:49. | |
spending, local government spending, courts, colleges or enterprise | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
companies, will he ensure that he stands together who feel devolution | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
does not stop at Holyrood but goes down to Scottish local authorities | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
and to the Scottish people? I agree with what he says and I can tell him | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
the best way to achieve it. Under Ruth Davidson to elect more Scottish | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
Conservative MSPs to the Scottish Parliament. In the interest of the | :24:14. | :24:21. | |
record, can the Secretary of State confirm that under the powers that | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
are being devolved as part of the current Scotland Bill, the Scottish | :24:25. | :24:35. | |
Government will be able to change rates of income tax... Order. I | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
apologise to the honourable gentleman. The Secretary of State | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
could not hear the question because of a rude eruption of noise. Perhaps | :24:45. | :24:51. | |
he could ask his question again and members could have the common | :24:52. | :24:59. | |
courtesy to allow him to be heard. We are getting used to this. In the | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
interests of the record, can the Secretary of State confirm that | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
under the paint -- powers that are currently being devolved as part of | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
the Scotland Bill, the Scottish Government will be able to change | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
rates and bands of the Scottish rate of income tax, allowing them to make | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
progress of choices on these additional powers, and that Labour | :25:20. | :25:26. | |
have made plans to raise Scottish income tax that everyone before | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
these powers are transferred... We have got the gist. Embers need to | :25:31. | :25:37. | |
learn the merits of the blue pencil. If they use the blue pencil and | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
questions were shorter, they would benefit. We will take on -- Scotland | :25:44. | :25:51. | |
will take on these tax powers as they see fit. I hope they use them | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
to make Scotland a more attractive place for business and commerce, | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
grow the economy and the Scottish population. My right honourable | :26:01. | :26:11. | |
friend the Secretary of State for Scotland has had a number of | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
discussions with ordinations includes the -- including the | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
Scottish Whisky Association and Oil and Gas UK. It is because of its | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
commitment to our long-term economic ban and prosperity that we have seen | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
such a growth in the Scottish economy. Thank goodness the good | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
people of Scotland voted to stay within the United Kingdom and reject | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
independence. Research shows that Scottish Opera workers could lose | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
?1300 annually as stores increasingly abandon their Sunday | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
pay rates in light of Sandy trading regulations. Would he take these up | :26:49. | :27:01. | |
with the secretary? -- Scottish shop workers. What we intend to do is | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
devolved powers to local authorities they make the decisions as to what | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
is in the best interests of people locally, including local people who | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
may want to shop on a Sunday, and the interest of nurses who may want | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
to open more liberally on a Sunday to take full advantage. These are | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
good ideas, and I hope she might consider supporting it. Questions to | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
the Prime Minister. I know the House has been saddened | :27:26. | :27:43. | |
by the death of Harry Harper, after a great career, an adviser to David | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
Blunkett, he was returned to this place last May, succeeding David | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
Blunkett himself. He was in this place a short time and became a | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
popular MP, recognised for his commitment to his constituents and | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
his beliefs. He continued to carry out his work, as an MP, throughout | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
his treatment, we offer his wife and their five children our condolences. | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and in | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
additional to Mike Judy 's in this House, I will have further comments | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
to make -- in addition to my duties in this House. I would like to agree | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
about the sad loss for the member of Sheffield and Hillsborough, he came | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
to this House with an excellent record in local government and will | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
be sadly missed. The whole House send our condolences to his family | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
at this sad time. Housing is the number one issue in my constituency, | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
queries on a workable local plan, looking after our green spaces and | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
strongly offering the Conservative value of the right to buy, would the | :28:51. | :28:57. | |
Prime Minister agree that the help to buy items, with one being taken | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
out every 30 seconds, is the right way to promote savings and encourage | :29:03. | :29:15. | |
homeownership? -- ISAs. I agree, that is why these help to buy ISAs, | :29:16. | :29:24. | |
where we matched the money they put in, it can ready help, and so what | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
we have seen under this government, is 40,000 people exercise their | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
right to buy their council House, now we're extending that to all | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
housing association tenants and we have seen 130,000 people would help | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
to buy, getting the first flat or the first House, and there is more | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
to do, mostly building houses, but helping people with their deposits | :29:45. | :29:53. | |
is vital. Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I joined the Prime | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
Minister and the member for Eastleigh in paying tribute to Harry | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
Harper, the Honourable member for Sheffield and Hillsborough, a former | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
miner who passed away last week, just a short time ago Harry used his | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
glass question here to ask the Prime Minister questions about the | :30:11. | :30:17. | |
Sheffield Masters and the steel industry -- his last question. I | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
hope the primers to reflects on his -- hope the Prime Minister reflects | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
on his diligence regarding that part of his committee. I said to his | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
wife, how would they like to remember Harry? She said, we have | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
admired the bravery and carriage he showed in his life, which was formed | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
in June the miners strike and which carried him forward for the rest of | :30:45. | :30:51. | |
his life -- which was formed jeering the miners strike. People will | :30:52. | :30:58. | |
remember him as a decent man, and we are very sad at his passing. Mr | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
Speaker, also following the member for Eastleigh, I have a question on | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
housing. I have an e-mail from Rosie, cheese in her 20s. -- she is | :31:10. | :31:18. | |
in her 20s. CHEERING LAUGHTER | :31:19. | :31:31. | |
Unfortunately, the Rosie who has written to me does not have the same | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
good housing that the Chief Whip of our party does. But aspiration | :31:39. | :31:49. | |
springs eternal. The Rosie who has written to me, cheese in 20s and she | :31:50. | :31:57. | |
says, " -- she is in her 20s and she says, "I worked very hard at my job | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
and I'm still having to live at home with my parents, the lack of housing | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
options are forcing her to consider moving, she says. She asks the Prime | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
Minister, what action it he is going to take to help young people and | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
families suffering from on realistic healths prizes and uncapped rents to | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
get somewhere safe and secure to live? -- House prices. When you get | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
a letter from the Chief Whip, that normally spells trouble, I should | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
say. What I would say to Rosie, we want to do everything we can to help | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
young people get on the housing ladder, that is why we have these | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
help to save ISAs and I hope she is looking at that, we are cutting | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
taxes and she will be able to earn ?11,000 before she starts paying any | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
taxes. If Rosie is a tenant in a housing association home, she can | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
buy that home because we are introducing and extending the right | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
to buy, and with help to bite she will have the opportunity to | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
register for help to buy which gives people the chance to have a small | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
deposit, but still a chance of owning their own home. If she wants | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
to be a homeowner, shared ownership can make a real difference and in | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
some parts of the country you will need a deposit of just a few | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
thousand pounds to begin the process of becoming a homeowner, but Ira | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
lies that building more houses, we have got to deliver for Rosie -- but | :33:30. | :33:37. | |
building more buildings. I'm very pleased that the Prime Minister | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
would like to help deliver decent housing, Rosie lives and works in | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
London, as the Prime Minister knows, London is very expensive. He talks | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
about people getting on the housing ladder, but the reality is, home | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
ownership has fallen under his government by 200,000 and it rose by | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
a million and the last Labour government, and his record is one of | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
actually some years of failure on housing. He said that council homes | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
sold on the right to buy would be replaced like the like, can be | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
primers to tell us how that policy is panning out? -- Gandhi Prime | :34:12. | :34:19. | |
Minister. -- can the Prime Minister. What happened under Labour, one | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
council home was built for every hundred and seven seat council homes | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
they sold. That is the record -- 170. We have said we will make sure | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
that two homes are built for every council home in London, that is so, | :34:36. | :34:42. | |
that is because the member for Richmond insisted on that in an | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
amendment to the housing bill. These take some years to build, but the | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
money that they will be built, the money comes back to the Treasury. | :34:52. | :34:58. | |
The Prime Minister should be aware that just one home has been built | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
for every eight that have been sold under his government. People are | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
increasingly finding it very devil called find anywhere to live. The | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
Chancellor's crude cuts in housing benefit for those in supported | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
housing, they are putting at risk hundreds of thousands of elderly | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
people, people with mental health condition, war veterans and women | :35:22. | :35:23. | |
fleeing domestic violence unit support. Can the Prime Minister tell | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
the House what estimate housing dividers have made in terms of the | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
impact of this policy on supported housing? We are going to increase | :35:34. | :35:41. | |
housing supply in the social sector by an ?8 billion housing budget gym | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
this parliament which will build 400,000 affordable homes. When it | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
comes to our reforms of housing benefit, yes, we have cut housing | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
benefit, because it was out of control when we came to government. | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
There were families in London who were getting ?100,000 of housing | :35:58. | :36:04. | |
benefit per family. Think how many people, think how many Rosie's were | :36:05. | :36:11. | |
going to work, working hard, just to provide that housing benefit for one | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
family. We support supported housing schemes and we will look very | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
carefully to make sure they can work well in the future, but I make no | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
apology for the fact that in this parliament we are cutting social | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
rents, so for Rosie, for example, living in social housing, going out | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
to work but she will have lower rent under this government. I'm pleased | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
the Prime Minister got onto the question of supported housing. | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
Housing providers estimate that nearly half of all supported housing | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
schemes will close, one in four providers are set to close all of | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
their provision, this is a very serious crisis. I assume the Prime | :36:52. | :37:00. | |
Minister is not content to people with mental health conditions with | :37:01. | :37:02. | |
nowhere to live, so can he assure the House that the warm words he has | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
given on supported housing will be matched by action and he will stop | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
this cut which will destroy this supported housing sector? We will | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
continue to support the supported housing sector and the report that | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
he quotes from, it was an opinion poll with an extremely leading | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
question, if he actually looks at what it was he was looking at. The | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
changes that we are making, reducing social rents by 1%, every year for | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
four years, that is good news for people who go out to work and work | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
hard and like to pay less rent. That goes with the lower taxes they will | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
be paying and the more childcare they will be getting, and the other | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
change we are making which does not come into force until 2018, is to | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
make sure that we are not paying housing benefit to social tenants | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
way above what we would pay to private sector tenants. The simple | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
point is this, and this is where I think Labour had got to focus, every | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
penny you spend on housing subsidy is money you can't spend on building | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
houses -- have got to focus. Let's take this right back to Rosie in the | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
beginning, it she would like a country where we build homes that | :38:11. | :38:12. | |
she would like a country where she can buy a home, she would like a | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
country with a strong economy so you can afford to buy a home, all of | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
those things we are delivering, but you will not deliver these if you go | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
on subsidising housing, and the welfare benefit, one day Labour has | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
got to realise that the welfare benefit has got to be brought under | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
control. -- the welfare system. Shelter estimates that the measures | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
in the housing bill will lose 180,000 affordable homes over the | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
next four years. The Prime Minister is overseeing a very damaging | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
housing crisis, it is prising out people from buying, it is not | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
providing enough social housing, therefore many people are forced to | :38:55. | :39:01. | |
rely on the private rented sector. The benches behind him recently | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
voted against an amendment but forward by my honourable friend or | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
homes to be fit for human habitation. -- for. Labour invested | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
?22 billion in government, in bringing social homes at two decent | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
homes standard, and there are now 11 million people in this country who | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
are private renters. Does the Prime Minister know how many of those | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
homes do not meet the decent homes standard? To listen to Labour, when | :39:32. | :39:38. | |
in the last five years, we built for council houses than they built in 13 | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
years. -- we built more. Where was he? Where was he when that was going | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
on? 13 years and I hope this record on housing. What we are doing is an | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
?8 billion housing budget, that will provide 400,000 new affordable homes | :39:59. | :40:00. | |
and a target to build a million homes during this Parliament, | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
getting housing benefit down so we can spend money on housing and | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
having a strong economy that can support the housing we need. Mr | :40:08. | :40:15. | |
Speaker, I was asking through you, the Prime Minister, how many of the | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
11 million renters are living in homes that are not going to make the | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
decent homes standard and therefore are substandard? 1000 of those in | :40:26. | :40:32. | |
the private rented sector do not meet that standard and shells found | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
six out of ten renters have issues like damp, mould, leaking roofs and | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
Windows, it is simply not good enough -- shelter found. Millions | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
are struggling to get the homes they deserve, more families slipping into | :40:48. | :40:49. | |
temporary accommodation, homelessness rising, too few homes | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
being built, social housing under pressure, families forced into low | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
standard, overpriced rented sector, young people unable to move out of | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
the family home and start their own lives, when is the Prime Minister | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
going to realise that there is a housing crisis in Britain, and his | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
government needs to address it now, so that we do not continue with this | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
dreadful situation in this country. Homelessness is less than half the | :41:14. | :41:24. | |
peak today than it was under the last Labour government. There is a | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
simple point here. You can only invest in new houses, you can only | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
restore existing houses, you can any build new houses and support people | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
into those houses if you have a strong economy. We inherited mass | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
unemployment, and economy that completely collapsed, a banking | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
crisis and now we've got zero inflation, wages growing, | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
unemployment at 5%, and economy growing and people able, for the | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
first time, to look to their future and see they can buy and own a house | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
in our country. Mr speak your Nadia was a | :42:01. | :42:18. | |
19-year-old when Daesh came to her village. They tortured her, raped | :42:19. | :42:26. | |
and made her laid. Nadia's story is the same as thousands of Yazidi | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
women except thousands are still held in captivity and Nadia escaped. | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
In fact, Nadia is in the public gallery today. Will the Minister | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
join me in accepting acknowledging Nadia's bravery and resilience and | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
the qualities that allowed her to triumph over Daesh? Will he support | :42:49. | :43:03. | |
Yazidi women? Let me thank my friend for raising this issue and welcome | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
Nadia, who is here with us today. Her and their Yazidi community have | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
suffered appallingly at this murderous, brutal, fascist | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
organisation in Syria and Iraq. We must do everything we can to defeat | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
Daesh and its ideology. We are playing a leading role in this | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
global coalition. In terms of Iraq, where so many Yazidis suffered, | :43:28. | :43:35. | |
Daesh have lost 40% of the territory controlled. As I said at the time in | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
the debate about Syria, this will take a long time. Building up Iraqi | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
security forces, working with Syrian opposition forces, building the | :43:46. | :43:48. | |
capacity of governments in both countries to drive this organisation | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
out of the Middle East. However long it takes, we must stick at it. Angus | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
Robertson. We on these benches join in the condolences in relation to | :43:59. | :44:07. | |
Harry and pass on our condolences at this sad time to his family for | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
supper by Minister made a vow and his party signed an agreement that | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
there would be no detriment to Scotland with new devolution | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
arrangements. Why is the UK Treasury proposing plans that may be | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
detrimental towards Scotland to the tune of ?3 billion? First of all, we | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
accept this myth principles of no detriment. No detriment to Scotland | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
at the time when this transfer is made. -- the Smith principles. And | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
then no detriment of Scottish taxpayers, but also to the rest of | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
the United Kingdom taxpayers, who we have to bear in mind as we take into | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
account this very important negotiation. I have had good | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
negotiations with the First Minister, negotiations are underway. | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
I want us to successfully complete this very important piece of | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
devolution in a fair and reasonable way and these negotiations should | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
continue. Let me remind the Right Honourable gentleman, if we had had | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
full fiscal devolution, with oil revenues having collapsed by 94%, | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
then the right honourable Gentleman and his party would be weeks away | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
from a financial calamity for Scotland. Thank you. In the context | :45:19. | :45:27. | |
of referendums, whether in Scotland or across the UK on EU membership, | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
don't voters have a right to know that what is promised by the UK | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
Government can be trusted and will be delivered in full. Will the Prime | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
Minister told the Treasury Time is running out on delivering of their | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
fiscal framework and they must do a deal that is fair both to the people | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
of Scotland, and fair to the rest of the United Kingdom. I can tell him | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
everything that has been committed to by this government will be | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
delivered. We committed to this huge act of devolution to Scotland and we | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
delivered it. We committed to the Scotland Bill and are well on the | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
way to delivering it. All the things we said we would, including those | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
vital Smith principles. There is an ongoing negotiations to reach a fair | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
settlement and I would say to the Scottish First Minister and Finance | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
Minister, they have to recognise there must be fairness across the | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
rest of the United Kingdom as well. But with goodwill, I can tell you Mr | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
Speaker, no one is more keen on an agreement on me. I want the Scottish | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
National party here and in Holyrood to have to start making decisions, | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
which taxes are you going to raise, what are you going to do with | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
benefits? I want to get rid of, frankly, this grievance agenda and | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
let you get on with the governing agenda and then we can see what you | :46:43. | :46:49. | |
are made of. The skills shortage in engineering | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
in Wildschut is particularly a problem. It is threatening and | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
undermining all the work we have done in job creation and also | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
supporting businesses. It is quite simply a ticking time bomb. Mr | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
Speaker, may I ask the Prime Minister, what more can he do to | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
remove the stigma, misunderstanding and all the problems associated | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
around Stem subjects and careers? I think my honourable friend is right | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
to raise this. There are special circumstances in Wiltshire because | :47:22. | :47:23. | |
you have the enormous success of Dyson, hiring engineers and skilled | :47:24. | :47:30. | |
mathematicians and scientists from every university in the country and | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
long may that continue. What we will do is help by training 3 million | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
apprentices in this parliament will stop we are giving special help | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
teachers of Stem subjects and them into teaching. I think there was a | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
lot business and industry can do to help us in this, by going into | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
schools and talking about what these modern engineering careers are all | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
about. How much the film and people can get from these careers, to | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
encourage people to change the culture when it comes to pursuing | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
these careers. Mr Speaker, young people are afraid of losing their | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
homes. Women denied the pensions they were expecting an increasingly | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
the needy left exposed without the social care they need to live a | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
decent life. When will the Prime Minister address the scandals? What | :48:18. | :48:23. | |
we are doing for pensioners is putting in place the triple lock so | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
every pensioner knows there can never be another shameful 75p | :48:27. | :48:33. | |
increase in the pension that we saw under Labour. They know that every | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
year it will either be wages, prices or 2.5%. That is why the pension is | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
so much higher than when I became Prime Minister. Of course we need to | :48:43. | :48:45. | |
make sure there is a fair settlement for local government as well. We | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
will be hearing more about that later today. But this ability of | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
local councils to raise special council tax for social care will | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
help in an area where there is great pressure. Nigel Adams. | :48:58. | :49:04. | |
The Spitfire was a crucial element in us winning the Battle of Britain | :49:05. | :49:12. | |
75 years ago. And keeping our country free from tyranny. However, | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
there are some who fear that our independent, nuclear deterrent could | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
be as obsolete as a Spitfire. Good my right honourable friend the Prime | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
Minister assure the House and the country this is not the case? It | :49:30. | :49:37. | |
takes quite a talent in the Shadow Defence Secretary to insult Spitfire | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
pilots and sub Mariner 's all in one go. Another week, another ludicrous | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
Labour position on defence. The last word should go to our right | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
honourable member in Bridgend who tweeted, oh dear, oh dear, oh my | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
God. Need to go to rest in a darkened room. I'm sure she will | :50:00. | :50:02. | |
find the rest of her party will be there with her! | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
At today's's select committee the Business Secretary confirmed the | :50:09. | :50:26. | |
Government won't support the EU commission in raising tariffs on | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
dumped steel from countries like China. Why won't the UK Government | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
stand up for UK steel? We have repeatedly stood up for UK steel, | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
including supporting taking anti-dumping measures in the EU. But | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
that is not enough. We need to get behind public procurement for steel | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
and that is what we are doing for them we need to get behind reducing | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
energy bills for steel and that is what we're doing, we need to support | :50:55. | :50:57. | |
communities like his own who have seem job losses, and that is exactly | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
what we're doing. We recognise what a vital part Britain's industrial | :51:02. | :51:08. | |
case British Steel is that is why we are backing it. Thank you Mr | :51:09. | :51:16. | |
Speaker. Julian Assange is accused of rape and is on the run. Despite | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
this, a United Nations panel nobody has ever heard of, declared last | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
week that he has been arbitrarily detained and somehow deserving of | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
compensation. Does my right honourable friend agree with me that | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
this was a nonsensical decision? That Julian Assange sure turned | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
himself over to the Swedish prosecutors and if anyone is | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
deserving of compensation, it is the British taxpayer, who has had to pay | :51:46. | :51:55. | |
?12 million to police his Ecuadorian hideout? My right honourable friend | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
is absolutely right. I think this was a ridiculous decision for you | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
have a man ear with an outstanding allegation of rape against him. He | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
barricaded himself into the Ecuadorian Embassy but claims he was | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
arbitrarily detained. The only person who detained himself was | :52:12. | :52:14. | |
himself. What he should do is come out of that embassy and face the | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
arrest warrant against him. He is being asked to stand trial in | :52:20. | :52:25. | |
Sweden, a country with a fair reputation for justice. He should | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
bring to an end this whole sorry saga. Mike Weir. Women's aid groups | :52:29. | :52:39. | |
have raised concerns that changes in social housing benefits may close | :52:40. | :52:48. | |
many refuges. Can the Prime Minister exempt refuges from this? I said in | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
a to questions from the opposition, we want to support supported housing | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
projects. There are work in many of our constituencies and we have seen | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
how important they are. These changes we are talking about, about | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
housing benefit, don't come into place until 2018. There is plenty of | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
time to make sure that we support supported housing projects. Thank | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
you, Mr Speaker. Next month Milton Keynes will host the first-ever | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
National apprenticeship fair. We have a strong record in expanding | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
apprenticeships. But is there not still a need for a cultural shift in | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
careers advice, to show the high-level apprenticeships are | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
equally valid to university places? I think my honourable friend is | :53:33. | :53:35. | |
absolutely right. The careers advice we need to give young people is that | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
there is a choice for every school either, we hope, of either a | :53:41. | :53:43. | |
university place, because have uncapped unit per university places | :53:44. | :53:50. | |
or apprenticeships and we to explain if you become an apprentice, that | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
doesn't rule out doing a degree or a degree level qualification later on, | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
during your apprenticeship. The option of earning and learning is | :54:00. | :54:01. | |
stronger in Britain today than it has ever been before. | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
Thank you Mr Speaker. Does the Prime Minister agree that housing protects | :54:08. | :54:16. | |
human rights of people in the United Kingdom and deserves full and | :54:17. | :54:18. | |
careful consideration question that will he give an assurance that his | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
repeal of the Human Rights Act will not conflict with Scotland? We will | :54:25. | :54:33. | |
very carefully all of these issues. I would say to the honourable lady | :54:34. | :54:36. | |
and honourable members opposite, the idea that there were no human rights | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
in Britain before the Human Rights Act is an absolutely ludicrous | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
notion. This house has been a great Bastian and defender of human | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
rights, but we will look very carefully of the timing of any | :54:51. | :55:00. | |
announcements we make. Mr Speaker I spent most of my working life in | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
children's hospices, rely on donations from organisations like | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
children in need, you have a long association with the town of Pudsey. | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
Would my right honourable friend join me and the people of Pudsey in | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
paying tribute to Sir Terry Wogan, who did so much to inspire millions | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
of pounds to be donated to these quarters question what I am very | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
happy to do that. The honourable member representing his | :55:30. | :55:32. | |
constituency, where Pudsey has such a connection is right to raise this. | :55:33. | :55:36. | |
I think Terry Wogan was one of the great icons of this country. Like | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
many people in this house you felt you grew up with him, listening to | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
him in the radio, in the cart or watching him present programmes. At | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
many people's favourite was the Eurovision Song contest, which every | :55:51. | :55:53. | |
year he brought such great humour too. I think we were all fans and he | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
will be hugely missed and his work with children in need was | :56:00. | :56:07. | |
particularly special. On Monday I attended the work and pensions | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
tribunal appeal hearing for my constituent, a brave and inspiring | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
woman whose dwarfism. Despite being able to climb staircases except on | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
all fours she was awarded zero disability points by her assessor | :56:23. | :56:28. | |
can I asked the Prime Minister if he has if he has attended any tribunal | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
hearings and if so if he found the process fair dignified and | :56:34. | :56:40. | |
compassion question what I am happy to look into the Casey races. I have | :56:41. | :56:46. | |
people coming to surgery with enquiries either about employment | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
and support allowance or about disability living allowance. I have | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
the experience having had a disabled son of filling out all the forms | :56:55. | :56:57. | |
myself, and looking forward to the new system, which I think with the | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
proper medical check, will work out better. I have listened to these | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
arguments but we have to have a system of adjudication which is | :57:06. | :57:13. | |
independent of politicians. Growing up nearby I always knew I was nearly | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
home when I saw the iconic cooling towers of the power stations on the | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
horizon. On Monday the owners of the remaining power station announced | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
its likely closure this summer. Well my right honourable friend asked the | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
Secretary of State to meet with me and discuss further the Government's | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
support that can be provided to the 150 workers and the provisions that | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
can be made to ensure the site is redeveloped as quickly as possible? | :57:43. | :57:48. | |
I will certainly arrange for that meeting to take place. We should | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
thank everyone who has worked at power stations that come to the end | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
of their lives, for the work they have done to give us a lecture city, | :57:56. | :57:58. | |
to keep our lights on and our economy moving. I think she is | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
absolutely right. As coal powered power stations come to the end of | :58:03. | :58:05. | |
their lives, we must make sure proper redevelopment takes place so | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
we provide jobs for constituents like hers. The football supporters | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
Federation is considering calling on fans to hold mass walk-outs, in | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
order to get their voices heard about the issue of ticket prices. | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
Will the Prime Minister act, to give fans a place at the table in club | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
boardrooms, in order that their voices can be heard when issues such | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
as ticket prices are being discussed? I will look very | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
carefully at the suggestion the honourable gentleman makes. I think | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
there is a problem here, where some teams and some clubs put up prices | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
very rapidly every year, even though so much of the money for football | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
comes through the sponsorship and equipment and other sources. I will | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
look very carefully at what he says. The vital debate and votes on the | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
Trident successes submarine should have been held in the last | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
parliament but was blocked by the Liberal Democrats. Given the farm | :59:04. | :59:09. | |
the Prime Minister had a few moments and go at the Labour Party 's | :59:10. | :59:14. | |
expense over Trident's success, it must be tempting for him to put off | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
the vote until the conference in October for, I urge him to do the | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
statesman-like thing and hold that vote as soon as is of, because | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
everyone is ready for it and everyone is expecting it. What we | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
should do is have the vote when we need to have the vote, and that is | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
exactly what we will do. No one should be in any doubt that this | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
government is going to press ahead with all the decisions that are | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
necessary to replace in full hour Trident is a Marines. I think the | :59:44. | :59:47. | |
Labour Party should listen to Lord Hutton, who was their Defence | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
Secretary for many years. He said, if Labour wants to retain any | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
credibility on defence whatsoever it better recognise the abject futility | :59:56. | :59:59. | |
of what its leadership is currently proposing. I hope when that vote | :00:00. | :00:02. | |
comes we will have support from right across this House of Commons. | :00:03. | :00:08. | |
In light of today's's damning National Audit Office report on | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
teacher shortages, will the Prime Minister take urgent steps to help | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
schools such as those in my constituency to recruit and retain | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
the best teachers, including extending the London weighting to | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
Harrow schools and other suburban schools question what we will look | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
carefully at this report. There are 13,100 more teachers in my schools | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
than when I became per minister. Our teachers are better qualified than | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
ever before. People are shouting out about increased pupil numbers but | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
they might be interested to know we have 40 7000 fewer tuple is in | :00:43. | :00:50. | |
overcrowded schools because we put investment in where it was needed. | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
But we do need schemes like teach first, like our national leadership | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
programme, that are getting some of the best teachers into the schools | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
where they are most needed. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
deserves great credit for the results of the Syria replenishment | :01:09. | :01:16. | |
conference, which was held under his leadership in London. He will be | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
aware this can only address the symptoms of the catastrophe and not | :01:21. | :01:29. | |
the causes. What can he tell the House the government can do to make | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
sure it reaches a speedy success question mark can I thank my right | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
honourable friend. It gives me the opportunity to thank my co-hosts the | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
Norwegians, the Germans and whether Kuwait is on the Secretary General | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
of the United Nations. We raised in one day more money than has ever | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
been raised that one of these conferences ever in their history, | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
over $10 billion. I want to pay tribute to my right honourable | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
friend, the secretary of state is a defeat he did a lot of work. It will | :02:01. | :02:08. | |
help close and feed people and give them the medicine they need. We need | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
a political solution and go on working with all our political | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
partners to deliver this. It requires all countries, including | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
Russia, to recognise the need for a moderate Sunni opposition to be at | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
the table, to create a transitional authority in Syria. Without that, I | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
feel we will end up with a situation where you have Assad in one corner | :02:28. | :02:35. | |
and Daesh in the other. The worst outcome in terms of terrorism, | :02:36. | :02:43. | |
refugees and the outcome of Syria. I am sure the Prime Minister is | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
looking forward to visiting Hull next year. As the UK's city of | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
culture we are backed by many prestigious organisations like the | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
BBC and RAC, but we can do much better, to make this a real national | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
celebration of culture. Will the Prime Minister join with me in | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
urging the many London based National arts organisations to | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
actually do their bit and contribute to the success? I think the | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
honourable lady makes a very important point, which is our | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
national cultural institutions have immense amount of works and prestige | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
that they can bring out to regional Galleries and regional centres when | :03:24. | :03:32. | |
there is a city -- culture event. I will enjoy visiting Hull Foster I | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
know my right honourable friend will want to join me in the city of Hull. | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
It is a city of poets, home to Philip Larkin for many years, and of | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
course, Stevie Smith. Sometimes one might want to contemplate what it's | :03:47. | :03:55. | |
like waving and not drowning. The election for the chair of the | :03:56. | :03:57. | |
environmental audit committee is now taking place in committee room 16. | :03:58. | :04:06. | |
Voting will continue until 1:30pm. Also voting on a deferred division | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
is taking place in the no lobby. This will continue until 2pm. | :04:11. | :05:36. | |
Order. I think we are going to come to points of order. Point of order, | :05:37. | :05:49. | |
Mr James Gray. I seek your garden -- guidance on an issue which could | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
undermine the traditions of this House. That is the matter of the | :05:57. | :06:05. | |
chains -- change of use to pay for a recording of Acts of Parliament. In | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
the 9th of August last year, you indicated to me that there would be | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
a substantive vote in this House before the motion occurred. I asked | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
for a point of order from the honourable lady for Washington and | :06:19. | :06:20. | |
Sunderland on the night. You indicated you have changed your view | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
on that matter and it would no longer be a substantive vote in this | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
House and if she wished to register her opposition to it, a vote would | :06:31. | :06:37. | |
be needed. Am I right that this would have no effect whatsoever. | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
However, if I was to call a debate for the Backbench Business Committee | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
with a substantive motion and request that this retrograde | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
decision be reversed, can you advise what effect that would have on our | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
decision in this place and whether the other place would have any | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
reason to listen to that decision? Order, let me say the following to | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
the honourable gentleman to say I am grateful for his point of order. | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
First, I have not changed my view on the desirability of a vote in this | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
chamber on the matter. The honourable gentleman was quite right | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
in saying, as I readily acknowledged yesterday when a point of order was | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
raised, that I had expected that a vote would take place on that | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
matter, in this House. However, the matter does fall within the Aegis | :07:27. | :07:35. | |
and it appears in terms of decision-making contents, the | :07:36. | :07:37. | |
exclusive Aegis of the other place. For that reason, and on account of | :07:38. | :07:45. | |
their desire to proceed, there is no entitlement for this House to | :07:46. | :07:55. | |
supersede the other place's well. Secondly, the honourable gentleman | :07:56. | :07:57. | |
quite correctly judges that it would be open to him and other members to | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
seek a Backbench Business Committee debate on this matter, and I wish | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
the honourable gentleman all success, presumably in a cross-party | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
effort, to secure such a debate. It is not for me to seek to comment on | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
how the other place judges matters. I would not have sought to do so | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
anyway, and I have been reminded by sound professional advice, that it | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
is not for me to do so. So I don't think I should get into the business | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
of speculating about what might happen. But I have known the | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
honourable gentleman forward over 20 years, and he is at his best a | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
formidable and energetic campaigner. My advice to the honourable | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
gentleman, if you feel strongly, together with his honourable friend | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
from the Labour benches who raised the matter yesterday, to go ahead | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
and seek a debate and to marshal his forces. And to plan for victory, | :08:57. | :09:03. | |
rather than to spend time sitting around predicting it. Perhaps we can | :09:04. | :09:12. | |
leave it there. I think it would be tactful to | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
ignore the sedentary but no doubt purposeful interjection from the | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
honourable gentleman for the constituency of Bolsover, but I | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
heard what he said. Point of order, Tommy Sheppard. | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
I wish to raise the issue of how we select questions in the post English | :09:37. | :09:44. | |
laws for English constituencies. Today we have Scottish questions. 48 | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
non-Scottish members submitted a question, 12 were chosen, a success | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
rate of 25%. I appreciate the randomness of the situation creates | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
these considerations, but there is a matter of concern that Scottish | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
members have only a one in four chance of questions to be Scottish | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
secretary as compared to other member 's of the House. And in the | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
review that we are about to undertake, of English votes for | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
English laws, could I ask ever so gently whether you would consider | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
whether it might be appropriate for those from the party which have a | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
specific territorial response ability, whether some mechanism | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
could be achieved to allow the members representing those areas are | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
better chance of holding ministers to account? | :10:31. | :10:32. | |
I'm very grateful to the honourable gentleman for his point of order. | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
The short answer to the thrust of his question is selection is done by | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
electronic ballot. It is done that way for questions to the Secretary | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
of State for Scotland, and it is done that way in respect of every | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
other Question Time edge to explain in this chamber. With reference to | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
the honourable gentleman's request for consideration of an alternative | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
method, I am happy to consider his point, but I had the honourable | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
gentleman will bear in mind the likelihood that there will exist | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
opinions on this matter, are the van and different from his own. We would | :11:10. | :11:16. | |
leave it there for now. Point of order, Mr Tim Farron. | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
Mr Speaker, I sit your help on matter. The Immigration Minister | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
yesterday, in response to a written question had to correct an | :11:26. | :11:27. | |
inaccurate answer previously given to a question as to how many young | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
adults who had been previously refugees but were unaccompanied | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
minors in this country, had been forcibly removed from this country. | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
The original answer was 1600, the corrected answer was 3750. I wonder | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
he would help make into opening up an investigation into how that might | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
have happened, but also to press for information about what the cost to | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
the UK Exchequer, from deporting from our country 3750 young people, | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
who we had invested in for many years, and were just at the time of | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
their life and about to contribute to our country? | :12:13. | :12:13. | |
I'm grateful to the honourable gentleman for his point of order. | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
The short answer to hear him is he can't seek a debate on the matter, | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
he can table written parliamentary questions pursuant to the | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
information he has already extracted, and he can raise the | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
matter with all the authority of his leadership office on the floor of | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
the House, at business questions tomorrow. I keenly expect to see the | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
honourable gentleman, the right honourable gentleman, the member for | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
Westmorland and Lonsdale in his place, and leaping to his feet with | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
a laxity tomorrow morning. We will leave it there for now. -- with | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
alacrity. If there are no further points of | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
order, we come to the presentation of Bill in the name of secretary | :13:05. | :13:13. | |
Teresa Villiers. A minister nods and he has done so. | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
Northern Ireland agreement and implementation plan bill. Second | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
reading what day? Tomorrow. Thank you. Presentation of Bill, secretary | :13:24. | :13:34. | |
Teresa May. Policing and Crime Bill. Second reading what day? | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
Tomorrow. Thank you. We come now to the ten minute rule motion, Mr Will | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
Quince. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I beg leave | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
to bring a bill which would prohibit the use of wild animals in circuses | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
and for connected purposes. We had mention of Andy Murray's new baby, | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
and I should mention in the last few days, we have had a new delivery | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
ourselves, and it would be remiss of me not to apologise for taking a | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
pause in our paternity arrangements to present this bill. | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am grateful for the opportunity to bring in this | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
bill and I would like to pay tribute to those members, and in particular | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
the member for Poplar and Limehouse, and the member for The Wrekin, who | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
worked hard on this matter in this Parliament and pressed for | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
prohibition on the use of wild animals in circuses. The | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
Conservative manifesto on which I was proud to stand for the general | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
election of 2015 states we will ban wild animals in circuses. It is a | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
commitment mirrored on all sides of this House. The Labour Party | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
manifesto committed to ban wild animals in circuses. The Democratic | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
Unionist Party supports a ban on wild animals in circuses. The SNP's | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
Westminster manifesto promised to consult on wild animals in | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
travelling circuses, with many SNP MPs and MSP is now calling for a | :15:04. | :15:05. | |
complete ban. It is one of those rare moments | :15:06. | :15:12. | |
where we have a degree of consensus. In 2011, the House agreed a | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
Backbench Business motion called on the then Government to ban all wild | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
animals in circuses. Many members of this House consider this a piece of | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
unfinished business from the last Parliament and I appreciate the | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
chance to introduce the Bill today to press for this vital reform. | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
Ahead of a ban being introduced, the Coalition Government did introduce | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
as an interim welfare measure legislation to licence those | :15:38. | :15:39. | |
circuses which used wild animals. I believe it is time for that ban to | :15:40. | :15:48. | |
be introduced, to supercede those regulations. Last year, there were | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
18 wild animals still being used by travelling circuses in England. It's | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
a small number of animals, but it is a practice that I, the majority of | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
MPs and the vast majority of the public in this country think should | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
be brought to an end. So, Mr Speaker, why are wild animals in | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
circuses now not appropriate? There is the practical element. In the | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
past two centuries, wild animals were an essential part of the circus | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
experience. The definition of a wild animal is a member of a species that | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
is not normally domesticated in Great Britain. For many people, | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
particularly those who could not afford foreign holidays, circuses | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
were the only way and the only opportunity for those people to see | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
wild and exotic animals. We know that that is now not the case. We | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
are very fortunate in this country to have many world-class zoos. | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
Colchester Zoo is one example where you can see elephants, tigers, | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
penguins, lions, bears and chimpanzees. I should probably | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
declare an interest that I'm a Gold Card member of the zoo and goi with | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
my daughter on many occasions throughout the year. The zoo does | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
fantastic work caring for those animals and providing them with | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
different types of enrichment to occupy their time and promote | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
natural behaviours. Crucially, the zoo aims to ensure that the | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
conditions in which wild animals are kept are as close as possible to | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
their natural habitats, educating people about the species' natural | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
environment as well as enabling them to promote important issues such as | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
conservation. Thanks to the huge growth in the opportunity of foreign | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
travel, many more people can actually travel across the world to | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
see these animals in their natural habitats. The extraordinary wildlife | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
documentaries on television now mean we can see these wild animals in | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
high-definition from our living rooms should we so wish. The second | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
objection is to do with our basic respect for wild animals. Wild | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
animals that have been kept and used in travelling circuses have the same | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
counterparts in zoos or in the wild. counterparts in zoos or in the wild. | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
Their instinctive behaviours remain. Using such animals to perform tricks | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
and stunts hardly encourages people to respect the animals' value. | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
Neither is there any educational, conservational or research benefit | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
from using these animals solely or primarily for such entertainment and | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
spectacle. I understand that the circus keepers in many cases do the | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
best they can to care for the wild animals in question. And those | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
circuses licensed under DEFRA's scheme have welfare standards to | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
adhere to. The very nature of the circus business model means that | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
attempting to recreate the natural habitat of a wild species or in aid | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
of its conservation, it can never be achieved. Respected animal wealth | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
and welfare groups such as the RSPCA and the British Veterinary | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
Association have long supported and campaigned for a complete ban on the | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
use of wild animals in circuses. Their views are based on the | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
strongly-held belief that travelling circuses cannot meet the welfare | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
needs of wild animals. I have some sympathy. The Radford Report in 2007 | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
concluded that there appeared to be little evidence to demonstrate that | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
the welfare of animals kept in travelling circuses is any better or | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
worse than those animals kept in similar captive environments. So it | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
is clear there are very strong views on both sides. It is vital that we | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
are evidence-based when we are seeking to introduce a ban and we | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
recognise the grounds on which it would be sensible to introduce this | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
prohibition. First and foremost, I want to get this ban through and | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
carry the support of members on all sides. I'm aware there are some, | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
including in this House, who argue these animals were born and bred in | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
circuses and it would be cruel to drag them away from the keepers and | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
the environments they know well. I understand that argument. I'm afraid | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
I disagree. You cannot make the perfect the enemy of the good. | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
Opposing a ban on this basis that wild animals already in circuses | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
might be disrupted from their regular patterns of life would stop | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
a ban being implemented and wouldn't be acceptable. Of course, it is | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
vital there is provision to ensure that those wild animals in circuses | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
in England are well cared for in their retirement and DEFRA's circus | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
licensing scheme requires that all licenced animals must have | :20:27. | :20:28. | |
retirement plans in place. It is also important we give those | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
circuses affected appropriate time to prepare and adapt to any ban. But | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
like so many across this House, I really believe that this reform, | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
whose time has come, that this reform whose time has come, we | :20:42. | :20:49. | |
should continue and follow countries like Austria, Belgium and the | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
Netherlands in prohibiting wild animals in circuses. They were once | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
an integral part of the circus experience. This is no longer the | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
case. The use of wild animals in travelling circuses can no longer be | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
justified. The majority of MPs want a ban, the public supports a ban, I | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
urge colleagues to support this Bill. | :21:10. | :21:11. | |
THE SPEAKER: The question is that the honourable member have leave to | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
bring in the Bill. I hadn't intended to speak today, | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
but having heard from what my honourable friend has said, I think | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
it is important to put down on the record that if indeed his proposal | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
is one which is supported by the Government, that any legislation | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
should be brought forward by the Government rather than using the | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
private members procedure and the reason I say that - and I think was | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
conceded by my honourable friend in his speech - is that this is a | :21:47. | :21:55. | |
controversial issue. My honourable friend conceded that it was a | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
controversial issue and I think it is not surprising that, as a | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
Conservative, I should regard it as controversial that we should be | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
thinking about introducing a total prohibition on what is currently a | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
perfectly lawful activity. So, if we are going to have legislation on | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
this, let the Government bring forward its Bill and let's have a | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
proper debate around the detail of that Bill. For example, my | :22:23. | :22:32. | |
honourable friend, if he is going to listen to this response, what was | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
said in his remarks was that he was talking about tricks being done by | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
these wild animals in circuses. If one looks at the Bill that was | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
introduced in the last Parliament, it actually seeks to impose a ban on | :22:46. | :22:53. | |
the displaying of these wild animals. There's then an issue about | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
what we define as a wild animal. For example, does my honourable friend | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
think that a camel, which is in most countries of the world regarded as a | :23:06. | :23:12. | |
domestic animal, that a camel should be banned from being able to | :23:13. | :23:22. | |
participate in a circus? So, Mr Speaker... | :23:23. | :23:24. | |
THE SPEAKER: In these circumstances we don't take interventions. That | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
doesn't happen. And Mr Chope's remarks must be heard. Thank you, Mr | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
Speaker. The other thing that my honourable friend didn't refer to | :23:37. | :23:45. | |
was the outcome of the licensing regime, which has perfectly rightly | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
been brought into effect. The consequence of that licensing | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
regime, which requires up to seven inspections per year of animals in | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
travelling circuses - and I think my honourable friend will correct me if | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
I'm wrong, there is only one inspection per year for zoos such as | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
Colchester Zoo. Seven inspections a year. We are now about to embark | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
upon the fourth year of that licensing regime and nobody has | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
criticised the welfare of the animals subject to that licensing | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
regime. So, on the basis, Mr Speaker, that good Conservatives | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
should argue for less regulation and prohibition, as little as is | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
possible and reasonable, I think that we have reached a compromise | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
here where we have got a proper tight welfare licensing regime | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
without the need for a total ban or prohibition. That's why I say to my | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
honourable friend that I think it would be wrong for him to raise the | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
expectations of those people - and I accept that there are many people | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
who support the views that he's expressed today - but it would be | :24:59. | :25:06. | |
wrong for him to raise their expectations to suggest that this | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
legislation could be put through under the Private Members' Bill | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
procedure. And I hope that what he will say in response to comments | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
about this is that the Government should bring forward legislation if | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
indeed the Government has the will to implement this particular aspect | :25:25. | :25:26. | |
of our manifesto. I think it would be out of order for | :25:27. | :25:38. | |
me to talk about other aspects of the Conservative Party manifesto | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
which have not yet been implemented and may not even be implement it at | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
all. I think the onus for putting this matter right, if indeed it | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
needs to be put right must be on the Government. This is going to be | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
controversial technical legislation, and that is why I don't think it is | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
appropriate for the private member procedure. Order. Question that the | :25:59. | :26:06. | |
honourable member have leave to bring in the bill. As many as are of | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". I think the ayes | :26:10. | :26:16. | |
have it. Who will prepare and bring in the Bill? Jim Dowd, Roger Gale, | :26:17. | :26:26. | |
Mr Philip Hollobone, Brenda Sharma, Simon Hall, Luis Haig and myself, | :26:27. | :26:37. | |
sir. -- Louise Haig. Mr Will Quince. | :26:38. | :26:55. | |
Wild Animals in Circuses (Prohibition) bill. Second reading | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
what day? Friday 4th of March. Thank you. | :27:02. | :27:10. | |
Order, we come now to motion number two on the Police Grant Report | :27:11. | :27:18. | |
England and Wales. I remind the House that this motion is subject to | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
double majority voting. If a division is called on this motion, | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
all members of the House are able to vote. Understanding order number 83 | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
are the motion will be agreed only if of those voting, both the | :27:36. | :27:44. | |
majority of all members and the majority of members representing | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
constituencies in England and Wales vote in support of the motion. At | :27:49. | :27:56. | |
the end, the tellers will report the results, first for all members, and | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
secondly for those representing constituencies in England and Wales. | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
To move the motion, I call the minister. The Minister of State no | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
less, Mr Mike Kenny. Thank you very much indeed, Mr | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
Speaker. Can I beg for indulgence briefly, I noticed the new Serjeant | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
at Arms is in place, I hope you still there now, no disrespect to | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
the deputy. I know him well, he comes from a great regiment and we | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
will miss him where he looks after our security and I'm sure he will do | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
a fantastic job. Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
Police Grant Report for England and Wales for 2016 was laid before the | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
House on the 4th of February, be approved. Mr Speaker, I was | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
enormously proud when I was appointed the police minister. One | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
of the things I did have very only on was a great deal of lobbying from | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
colleagues around this House and from police constables and PC seas | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
around the country, about the grant, whether it was fair, whether it | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
should be changed and whether they felt they could survive if there | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
were further cuts. However, we did inherit a really difficult economic | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
situation and the Treasury quite rightly asked the Home Office | :29:20. | :29:21. | |
whether or not our police forces could take further cuts. They have | :29:22. | :29:23. | |
done particularly well under the last Parliament of taking really | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
difficult financial decisions while we addressed the funding situation | :29:29. | :29:36. | |
we inherited. What was really, really good was in most cases, and I | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
say most cases, those discussions were sensible, they were pragmatic | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
and actually, we can see from the fact that crime has fallen since | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
2010, and continues to fall under this government, we can do more with | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
less. I give way. I thank the Minister for giving way. If he | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
decides with ministerial colleagues to extend the term of the | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
Metropolitan Police Chief Constable, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, will he make | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
it a condition that Sir Bernard is not allowed to merge Harrow police | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
with any other borough command, because of that were to happen, | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
inevitably, Harrow police would be diverted to police other parts of | :30:20. | :30:26. | |
London? Mr Speaker, unlike the previous Labour administration, we | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
believe in police officers making the decisions they need for their | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
communities and not a top-down approach. We have devolved | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
operational policing to make sure Chief constables can do that and | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
also other decisions around how local community funding is done | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
either through the Mayor's office, or through PCCs. I know the Labour | :30:46. | :30:52. | |
Party opposed PCCs extensively. They have extensively -- thankfully | :30:53. | :31:00. | |
changed their minds. I would not in anyway instructed the Commissioner | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
for London in how he should police London, nor the Mayor, that is a | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
matter for them. What I will say is that there will be more money in | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
London for policing than if there was a Labour minister standing here | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
because obviously, Labour wanted to cut 10% of their funding budget. | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
Perhaps I will come onto that again, perhaps. | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
I'm very grateful. As he knows, I have always opposed cuts to the | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
police budget every single year, and the Minister has always had a good | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
argument to come back to by saying crime is going down, therefore that | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
justifies the Government's position. In my local paper, the Bradford | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
Telegraph and Argus lastly, it said crime had gone up by 15% over the | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
Bradford district in the last year. If falling crime is a justification | :31:53. | :31:59. | |
for a fall in police grant, now we have significant rise in crime in | :32:00. | :32:01. | |
the Bradford district, by the same logic, does that mean we will get a | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
substantial increase in the police grant? My honourable friend is | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
nothing but determined to push his case each time, but crime has | :32:12. | :32:19. | |
fallen. We are having reported crime, predict Leon sexual assaults | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
and a list of violence have been seen to go up and I am pleased that | :32:23. | :32:25. | |
people have the confidence to come forward which they would not have | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
done in the past. I think we need to look very carefully at where types | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
of crime are increasing. I was the other day with the car manufacturers | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
asking them to questions about how come we have seen an increase in car | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
thefts, particularly in high-value vehicles when we had seen a decrease | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
for some considerable time. But also seeing increases in crime which were | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
never able to be on statistics before such as fraud, and under the | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
previous administration fraud was not reported and will become part of | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
the statistics. It is sadly part of our lifestyles and crime that we | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
have today. Mr Speaker, what was really interesting after the | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
Chancellor made the announcement at this dispatch box that we were not | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
going to cut by 25%, not cut by 10% as the Shadow Home Secretary | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
suggested, and not cut in a way which some forces said they could | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
manage. What we said as we would not cut it at all. We would not cut | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
between now and 2020 to give the confidence to the police that they | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
needed to make sure that they had the funding. What is very | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
interesting is the Police Commissioner for London and other | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
chiefs did not suddenly say, OK them, we will not do any more | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
reforms, we will not go ahead with some of the reforms because we have | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
got the money that we needed, actually what the commissioner said | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
that very night was we need to go ahead with many of the reforms that | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
are making our police forces better as we go forwards, to detect and | :33:55. | :34:02. | |
convicted criminals that we need. I am grateful to the Minister for | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
giving way. He must accept there are 18,000 fewer police officers there | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
when I stood at that dispatch box six years ago. He has to accept | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
there are cuts in the real term grant and he should come to the | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
House and explain honestly why local authorities and Police Commissioner | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
such as mine in North Wales are simply precept to compensate for the | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
cut in the central government grant. I will take a couple of points the | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
Minister races with experience of being in the Home Office. Absolutely | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
right when he said there were more police than there are today. | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
Actually, there are more warranted officers on the streets of this | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
country today doing the work we need them to do than when he was | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
minister. I have still got concerns about some forces that had over 10% | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
of their warranted officers who are not operationally out there on the | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
streets doing the job we would expect them to do. Those are the | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
sort of reforms we need them to continue to press forward on and | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
make sure they have the skills they need and the equipment they need. I | :35:06. | :35:13. | |
will not give way until later. On the particular point, if he wants to | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
raise that point, then he should have been asking the question of his | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
own front bench as to why they publicly said let's cut the police | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
grant by another 10%, something we have not done. | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
I think the honourable friend, I feel like I had been promoted ahead | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
of the Shadow Home Secretary! On the point he made about the increase in | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
police budgets, such as Lancashire where the directly funded police | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
grant is actually going up, would he be as surprised as me, that the | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
Lancashire Police and crime Constable and Chief constable were | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
giving doomsday scenarios that Lancashire Constabulary is no longer | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
fit for purpose and they have not come out and welcomed this budget? | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
What has really shocked me, and I met a delegation from across the | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
House from Lancashire, I meet every MD who wants to see me, not only has | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
the Chief Constable not welcomed it but he has been whingeing that he | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
will be short of money again this time. He needs to take a very close | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
look at his reserves. He has been moaning about ?1 million, actually, | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
if he looks at his reserves, it is minuscule compared to the reserves | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
that Lancashire have. On one final point before I give way to the | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
Shadow Home Secretary on precept, all governments look at precept. | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
There are some PCCs who say they will not increase their precept. | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
Others will go to the limit of 2%. Others will take the ?5 agreement we | :36:50. | :36:56. | |
have. I was lobbied extensively to allow the precept to go much higher | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
than 2%. I will give way. I'm grateful to the | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
minister but let's get something straight here. When I came into the | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
job as Shadow Home Secretary, he and his other colleagues in the | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
Government were proposing to cut the police by between 25 and 40%. That | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
was their proposal. And it was pressure from these benches, led by | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
my honourable friend, a full opposition Day debate, that forced | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
them into a humiliating U-turn. Let's get our facts straight here. | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
Is the promise was it seems? He is standing there seemingly to suggest | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
there will be no cuts. Can he guarantee there will be no real | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
terms cuts to any police force going forward in the next few years? I am | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
so pleased I gave way, I should have given way earlier, I should | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
apologise. I find this absolutely fascinating. Any opposition would | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
have looked at modelling about what a force could do or could not do. | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
That is what this government did. We asked the forces if they could | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
absorb 25 of 40%. And we ask that question. What we did not do, Mr | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
Speaker, is to come out after that modelling had taken place, and say | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
completely arbitrary, we will make it temper sent. You will be all | :38:15. | :38:22. | |
right with 10% between now and 2020. Some forces will have really | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
struggled to have done that. The point was made to be by the Shadow | :38:28. | :38:35. | |
Home Secretary, you can sit there in a sedentary position and waffle | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
away, but actually, 10% was waffle because there was no fact behind it. | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
If they go to the preset limits they have, no real terms cash cuts to the | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
forces. I give way. I am most grateful. He should be | :38:52. | :38:58. | |
commended as the first police minister in a generation to tackle | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
the issue of police funding by starting a review of the police | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
funding formula. The House knows that of course that review ended | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
with a long pause. I wrote to him on the 1st of February and I asked when | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
the consultation process would begin, something the select | :39:18. | :39:20. | |
committee is very keen should happen as soon as possible. Is he now in a | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
position to tell the House when that process will begin? Mr Speaker, I | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
thank the chairman of the select committee for his letter and his | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
kind comments he often gives me at the dispatch box and when I come | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
before the committee. I wrote to him yesterday, I'm sorry if he has not | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
received the letter. I did not give a definitive date. I do not think he | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
would expect me to give a definitive date. We are looking at how the | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
settlement is laid and how to make sure I did have to stand at this | :39:50. | :40:01. | |
dispatch box and eat so much humble pie as I did last time when we got | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
it wrong. I admit we got it wrong and we will not make that mistake | :40:05. | :40:06. | |
again. My own police force, we had around | :40:07. | :40:17. | |
240 fewer officers on the beat since 2010. It's a fact. What I would like | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
to ask - in the next two years ahead, my rough calculations from | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
the data released suggest that there will be a real-terms cut of nearly | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
?3.5 million from South Wales Police. Am I wrong? I do think the | :40:33. | :40:40. | |
honourable gentleman is wrong. Not least because, not only have I met | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
South Wales MPs in the last couple of days, but the very vocal PPC, | :40:46. | :40:52. | |
which I know very well, has not raised those figures with me. At the | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
end of the day, I would also ask South Wales Police to look very, | :40:58. | :41:03. | |
very closely before they ask for anymore money at the size of their | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
reserves, which are quite astronomical. Mr Speaker, what we | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
need to do is also look at the achievements of what the police have | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
been able to do and the collaboration that has taken place | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
with extra funding from the department to see how we can better | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
police out there on a day-to-day basis, not have the situation that | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
we have had for so many years where money is spent in one building only | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
has only been half used where it could be used in another building up | :41:36. | :41:44. | |
the road. Hampshire MPs are proud of the emergency services in Hampshire. | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
The innovation that has taken place in Hampshire is astounding. The | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
money that has been saved so it could be used in other front-line | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
work has been brilliant. Let me take Winchester, Mr Speaker. Winchester | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
has a brand-new fire station, brand-new fire station. On the first | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
floor are the fire offices, on the next floor it is the police. It's a | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
police station as well as a fire station. Over half of the fire | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
stations in England and Wales are within one kilometre of an ambulance | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
station or a police station. The sort of innovation that's happening | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
there, we are starting to see around the country and that is what we | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
should continue with. The Minister is right to commend the hard work of | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
the police under very difficult circumstances. He asks for | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
comparisons. Can I tell him that in Greater Manchester violent crime is | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
up by 36%, sexual offences up by 46%, overall crime is up by 14%. We | :42:42. | :42:49. | |
have had 20% fewer police officers and 4% fewer PCSOs and in the next | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
financial year, we are looking at an ?8.5 million cut in real-terms | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
funding. Those things don't add up, do they? What I would say to the | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
honourable gentleman is that since 2010, crime has fallen in | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
Manchester, like it has fallen across the rest of this country. | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
There are real concerns about certain elements of crime. That's | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
exactly what his own Chief Constable will be addressing like we are doing | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
at the Home Office. I would actually ask him to look very carefully at | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
the figures that he quotes. We have to be careful we do not scare people | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
away. We want people to report sexual assaults. Historically, they | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
haven't done that. We want them to report domestic violence. | :43:32. | :43:33. | |
Historically, they haven't done that. Those are the sorts of | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
offences that we need - if you look carefully at the offences - I will | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
give way. The Minister makes a point give way. The Minister makes a point | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
about people having confidence to report crime. In London we have seen | :43:49. | :43:56. | |
a 21% increase in sex offences, but worryingly, in Southwark, last year, | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
16% of those reported crimes resulted in a conviction. When will | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
he stop insulting the hard-working officers and constituents in | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
Southwark and ensure we have the resources to tackle crime properly | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
and keep people safe and secure the prosecutions? I have never insulted | :44:12. | :44:18. | |
an officer of anybody's constituency in my entire life, and I never will. | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
I resent the comments that the honourable gentleman has just made. | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
However, what would have happened in London if you had had a 10% cut - | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
the honourable gentleman said it wouldn't have happen. That is what | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
was proposed by his shadow front bench. I give way. I thank the | :44:39. | :44:45. | |
Minister for giving way. I agree with the point that he was trying to | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
make about the emergency services working together better. In my town, | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
we have seen the removal of an ambulance station and our paramedics | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
work out of the local police station. It is this collaborative | :44:58. | :45:05. | |
approach that can deliver real savings. Mr Speaker, the sort of | :45:06. | :45:14. | |
collaborative work that my honourable friend has touched on, we | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
are seeing across the country. Some of it is being paid for by the | :45:18. | :45:24. | |
Innovation Fund. It goes much further than that. It goes much | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
further than working in the same station, but training together. You | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
may know I used to be a fireman, many years ago. I may have told - I | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
may have to mention it a few more times again. There are only two of | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
us in this House. It was very, very rare to train with other emergency | :45:48. | :45:50. | |
services unless you were physically on the job. If you go around your | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
constituencies and ask the last time that they did a full exercise with | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
the fire, the ambulance or the coastguard, it is rare. That's often | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
logistical pressures. It is not the logistical pressure if you are in | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
the same building, in the same yard. So we go back to Winchester, not | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
only is the fire station and the police station in the same building, | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
the yard is jointly used but in the back of there, they have the Armed | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
Response Unit, all built on what was going to be just a fire station. | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
Then you start talking to those brilliant professionals that look | :46:27. | :46:28. | |
after us every day and ask them about what sort of training they are | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
doing now. I met firefighters in Hampshire that are being trained as | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
paramedics. Sadly, when you get something like a road traffic | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
collision, Mr Speaker, the ambulances may not always get there | :46:43. | :46:51. | |
first. I know how difficult it really was when we were at incidents | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
like that, and it is not all to do with how many ambulances you have. | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
If you have a really bad smash on the motorway, it is difficult to get | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
the emergency services there. You would think everybody would get out | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
of the way. But they don't. What is clearly happening is that we have | :47:09. | :47:16. | |
fire personnel trained to keep people alive, not just first aid | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
certificates, defibrillators - and that is a really good innovation. | :47:23. | :47:29. | |
When you are at a major trauma, to have those skills that I saw firemen | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
and women have in Hampshire, it is something I was crying out for when | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
I was in the Fire Service. I give way. I'm very grateful. I want to | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
take him back to the answer he gave me some moments ago. Of course, it | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
is not my intention to scare people, those are the statistics, they are | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
going up in Greater Manchester. And, of course, it may be in part down to | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
people now reporting crimes that previously they didn't. Doesn't the | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
Minister also accept that people have to have confidence that there | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
are adequate numbers of police officers to be able to investigate | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
those crimes and surely the 20% reduction in the number of police | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
officers in Greater Manchester is not going to help with that public | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
confidence? That really does depend as to where those officers were in | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
the first place. Were those officers working in the communities and on | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
the beat? Or were they doing desk jobs? The truth of the matter is, | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
while we have had a decrease in officers around the country, there | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
are more in front-line duties now than there was in 2010. And the | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
other thing that the honourable gentleman might want to ask his | :48:39. | :48:45. | |
local PPC, if he is really worried about the funding, b even -- even | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
though he would have had a 10% cut from his own front bench - I give | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
way. I thank the Minister for giving way. Can I plead to him and ask him | :48:59. | :49:05. | |
to look urgently at the issue of the rise in gun crime in the West | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
Midlands? Can I ask him to look at resources to try and fill that gap? | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
We have had over 20 shootings in the last six months, including six over | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
the bank holiday period. We have had 41 arrests, great work has been done | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
by the West Midlands Police force, and 24 recoveries of weapons and | :49:25. | :49:32. | |
ammunitions. This can only be done if we have officers - and this is a | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
real serious issue over the last 12 years. In order to have that | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
additional support, can you please look at that? Mr Speaker, I saw on | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
the news the shootings and I get the reports across my desk as well. Our | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
thoughts must be with the families of those. Whatever the reason. What | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
is fantastic and we must praise the work of the local police is the | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
arrests that are being made. Let's hope we get the prosecutions going | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
forward after that. That is the crucial thing. Confidence with the | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
public comes from the police actually getting prosecutions and | :50:07. | :50:08. | |
then the Criminal Justice System... I give way to the lady. I thank the | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
Minister for giving way. Like my colleague on my side of the benches, | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
there is a terrible unsolved shooting in Wood Green from last | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
summer where a drive-by shooting mistaken identity, a baker who was | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
coming out for a break from his bakery, he was shot and the person | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
has driven off, still unsolved. Can the Minister rule out that that has | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
not got to do with the cut in police numbers? Mr Speaker, why anybody | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
would get in a car and drive down and open a window and shoot someone | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
is beyond me. And probably beyond the comprehension of anybody within | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
this House. What we do know and what we do know is that the police forces | :50:51. | :50:53. | |
around the country are doing a fantastic job. We have just heard of | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
the arrests that have been taking place. To define - and to say that | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
is because you cut the money, that is because you - that is a silly | :51:05. | :51:14. | |
comment. I give way. People are suffering as a result of that. | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
THE SPEAKER: Order. We need to be clear whose intervention is being | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
taken. The honourable lady will have to express herself on another | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
occasion. I'm grateful to the Minister for giving way. I have | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
another tale of woe. There have been approximately 12 burglaries in ten | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
days in the Saddleworth villages and I have some very worried | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
constituents, so I totally agree with my honourable friend, you | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
cannot possibly say that there isn't a link between the front-line cuts | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
to staff at Greater Manchester Police, also mentioned by the member | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
for Denton, so what will he say and what can he say to those | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
constituents that many constituents that I have that have contacted me | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
about their safety? That priority that the honourable lady refers to | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
is why the Chancellor stood at this dispatch box and said we will make | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
sure that we give the money, no-one dreamed we would get it, so the | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
money would come through. There are no cuts going forward even though | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
that is exactly what you would have had should you have had a Labour | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
Minister standing here. I give way. I thank the Minister who is making a | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
very strong case. Isn't it important that we trust the professionals in | :52:36. | :52:46. | |
the police service? He will know that the terrible murders around | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
Peterborough could not have been solved by Cambridgeshire | :52:51. | :52:53. | |
constabulary alone. They had to work with other constabularies in order | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
to have the critical mass, forensics and back-up work to solve those | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
murders because we trust our local professional police officers. My | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
honourable friend has touched on the point I was going to come on to, | :53:06. | :53:10. | |
which is this collaboration point. Forces, the 43 forces around the | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
country, not even London, with the size of London, can police alone. | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
They need help across-the-board. In East Midlands, they are doing | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
fantastic work and in my own region, the sorts of capabilities which | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
would have always been done quite difficultly in a difficult way in | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
local forces are now being spread across the situation. Mr Speaker, I | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
have been called many things since I have been in this House, and before | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
I came in this House, but "frit" is not one of them. I give way. He is | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
saying a few things that are worrying me this afternoon. He just | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
stood there a few moments ago and said, "No real-terms cuts to the | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
police." That is simply untrue. I hope he will correct the record | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
before this debate ends. That is simply untrue. The other thing he | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
just said was that there are more officers in front-line positions. | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
There was a workforce survey out last week that showed that his | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
Government cut police officers by 18,000 in the last Parliament. Is he | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
seriously standing there today and saying, despite that cut of 18,000, | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
there are more police officers on our streets? Mr Speaker, I know the | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
Labour Party are desperately trying to find a reason to vote against a | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
very generous funding settlement, even though they would like to have | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
made it a difficult settlement by cutting it by 10%. What I said, | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
there are more operational police officers that are on duty now in the | :54:37. | :54:39. | |
front-line than there was in the past. That is what I have said at | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
this dispatch box time and time again. What we need to make sure, Mr | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
Speaker, and ask the question - perhaps we will hear it from the | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
Shadow Minister when we hear the arguments as to why there should | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
have been greater cuts or cut - because we are not going to cut at | :54:54. | :55:00. | |
all - cuts - what front-line services would have lost? I give | :55:01. | :55:02. | |
way. There has been a lot of talk about | :55:03. | :55:14. | |
cuts and also the horrific issue of crime, linked to that is the issue | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
of counterterrorism and national security. Can the Minister confirm | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
that this government will be increasing spending on tackling | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
counterterrorism, so it shows our commitment to national security? | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
I think my honourable friend is absolutely right. There is a | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
separate way we fund CT and I think that is enormously important. We | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
have a Minister of State 's Pacific Quay for that task. I think it is | :55:44. | :55:51. | |
really interesting and even though I have heard from the opposition | :55:52. | :55:53. | |
benches that this is terrible and this will happen, from the 43 | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
authorities they welcome the Chancellor's budget -- we have a | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
specific Minister of State for that task. | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
This is what it is about, a very generous settlement which we would | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
not have had if we had not won the arguments with the Chancellor. | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
I give way. I thank the Minister for giving way and I am slightly baffled | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
by his comments. Northumbria Police expect to have lost around ?150 | :56:25. | :56:31. | |
million between 2010 and 2020 and its workforce has already been cut | :56:32. | :56:37. | |
by a court, which is split equally between police officers and police | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
staff. Could the Minister just clarify, in what way is that a | :56:42. | :56:48. | |
generous settlement? Mr Speaker, to go over the arguments, we inherited | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
a fiscal mess left by the previous Administration. We had to make | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
really difficult financial decisions. The police forces did | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
Bolelli well and were worried that would go on -- they did very well. | :57:04. | :57:15. | |
Their front bench was going to do 10% cuts for policing. He giving | :57:16. | :57:28. | |
way. To Mr Hammond? Thank you. I have been listening | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
carefully to the police minister. I met with my local borough command | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
last week. He said some challenges would make policing more effective. | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
More botany he did stress that the number of police on the front line | :57:43. | :57:48. | |
in the Met is as many as it has ever been -- more importantly. My | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
honourable friend has actually brought me onto an interesting | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
point. Last Friday, the Friday before last, I was at Hendon with | :57:57. | :58:05. | |
the commissioner, taking the salute of the 135 new recruits coming | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
through. Brand-new police officers wanting to join the Met coming | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
through their training and on passing out parade. I think 60% live | :58:14. | :58:22. | |
in London. This is because of the reforms the Commissioner has brought | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
in saying you need to have lived in London for five years unless you | :58:26. | :58:28. | |
have served in the Armed Forces. That figure will be boosted again. I | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
was speaking to the officer in charge and he is expecting in excess | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
of 2000 officers training at Hendon. We should be really proud of the | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
numbers and I give way. The Minister has been very generous. | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
We all know that one of the perennial problems of policing has | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
been the amount of time that police officers have not been able to spend | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
on the beat. Does the Minister agree that when good Police and Crime | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
Commissioners use innovative technology to help those police | :59:01. | :59:03. | |
officers spend more time on the beat, in places such as | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
Staffordshire, it can mean as many as 100 extra police officers on the | :59:08. | :59:13. | |
beat at a 10th of the cost? Mr Speaker, there is a myriad of | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
different ways that we can give the confidence we need to our | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
constituents with our uniformed officers out there and others from | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
the community who are doing it as well. Can I pay tribute to our | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
specials? They do not get mentioned as much as they should do. Our | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
specials do a fantastic, fantastic job. We have to look carefully at | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
certain parts of the country where the specials numbers have literally | :59:40. | :59:42. | |
rocketed into their thousands whereas in other parts of the | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
country we do not have as many as we would like. I will give way once | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
more and then I will come to my final point. | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
I am grateful. Would my honourable friend join me in congratulating the | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
Conservative candidate in the Lincolnshire Police and crime | :00:01. | :00:07. | |
Commissioner elections for introducing special constables, | :00:08. | :00:08. | |
parish constables, who will look after the very remote rural areas of | :00:09. | :00:15. | |
Lincolnshire, giving those communities a policing figure they | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
know they can go to for help and advice, of somebody really to help | :00:20. | :00:26. | |
rural communities? Mr Deputy Speaker, I spent quite a bit of time | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
in Lincolnshire over the years, and was lobbied very extensively by the | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
Chief Constable and the Commissioner for a change in the funding formula, | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
to be fair. What I would say is the sort of innovation that we have seen | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
in places like Lincolnshire with the in places like Lincolnshire with the | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
parish specials and with rural mountain specials is the kind of | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
thing we would like to see replicated. | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
I will give way. In Lincolnshire, we are very grateful because this | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
Minister has done more than any other minister to come up, spent | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
days with the police force, and we very much appreciate what he has | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
done with his grant. We have had a letter from the Chief Constable | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
saying historic problems, increases in police salaries, national | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
insurance contributions, he still has a significant funding deficit. | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
Can the Minister say more about how he can help us, please? I know | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
exactly what my honourable friend is saying, and I know exactly what is | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
in the letter because I have had a very similar one. All I can say is | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
what Lincolnshire were asking me to do, which a lot of constabularies | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
and people in this House have asked is for a change in the funding | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
formula to make it fairer for Lincolnshire. That is something we | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
will continue to look at. This settlement is a not, not better than | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
they thought they were going to get and a lot better than if there had | :01:52. | :02:01. | |
been a Labour minister at the dispatch box. | :02:02. | :02:03. | |
If I may, in relation to collaboration, with the Minister | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
paid tribute to the work between Essex and Kent Police which looks at | :02:06. | :02:07. | |
the intelligence sharing to ensure that the serious crime and organised | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
crime in Newport County is also crime in Newport County is also | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
dealt with swiftly and effectively? -- in the Port County. That type of | :02:14. | :02:21. | |
work is so, so important. For too many years forces have sat in silos, | :02:22. | :02:30. | |
individual emergency services have sat in silence. One reason they have | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
come together is because of the austerity measures we had to bring | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
in which has made them think out of the box. I thank the Minister. Can I | :02:38. | :02:45. | |
just talk about the specific, first of all can I pay tribute to | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
Cambridgeshire Constabulary for the excellent work they have done on | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
issues around domestic violence and sexual offences. Isn't it the case, | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
one of the reasons there has been a slight spike in those issues in | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
crime reporting, is because many more victims feel comfortable about | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
approaching the police now and feel they will be treated fairly in the | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
pursuit of their complaints? Mr Speaker, my honourable friend has | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
touched on a really important point. I had the honour the other week of | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
continuing the funding for the victims groups around the country | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
for the next three years. One of the things I think is really important | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
is our constituents, no matter what has happened to them, have the | :03:30. | :03:31. | |
confidence to come forward and they confidence to come forward and they | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
will be listened to and there will be compassion when they come | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
forward. For too many years, that was not the case. I know a lot of | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
colleagues want to get in and I have been fairly generous, I would argue | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
this afternoon, we need to make sure that our constituents are made aware | :03:48. | :03:48. | |
of how generous this settlement is, of how generous this settlement is, | :03:49. | :03:56. | |
for the next four years to 2020. It is still very difficult Financial | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
Times, still times where we are continuing to pay for the amount of | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
administration and finance of this country by the previous | :04:07. | :04:08. | |
Administration and previous ministers who are now sitting on the | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
Labour front bench. I am looking forward to listening to positive | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
comments from our police force. I am enormously proud to be the police, | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
fire, victims and criminal justice minister. It is a long title, a big | :04:21. | :04:28. | |
job and I am delighted to have it. The question is as on the order | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
paper. Jack Dromey. Mr Speaker, I bow to no one in my | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
admiration for the police service. In the immortal words of Robert | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
Peel, the police are the people and the people are the police. There has | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
been a constant in our country for two centuries. The model for | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
policing by consent that we built on when we were in government. When | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
Labour left office, there were a record number of police on the | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
streets, over 16,500 more than in 1997, and in addition, nearly 70,000 | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
PCSOs. We built neighbourhood policing, popular with the public. | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
It worked, we saw a generation of progress on crime, local policing, | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
local roots, local say, local partnership working. We built that | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
which the public valued and it was one of Labour's greatest | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
achievements. I give way. I thank the honourable gentleman. On the | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
issue of bowing to know one, would he support the settlement today, | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
rather than bowing to the Shadow Home Secretary's suggestion of a 10% | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
cut? We will oppose this settlement today and I will tell you why. It is | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
simply not true what has been said from this dispatch box, both by the | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Police Minister, that police funding | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
is being protected and I will come to set that out in greater detail in | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
due course. Mr Speaker, of course we are still learning sometimes painful | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
lessons from the past. There are still wrong is to be righted. The | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
police are not perfect. We need to raise standards and we should always | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
hold the police to the highest standard in the public interest. The | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
first thing I want to say to the police minister and the Home | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
Secretary is the British model of policing, based on neighbourhood | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
policing is celebrated worldwide. It was a model responsible for a | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
generation of progress on crime. The Home Secretary's remorselessly | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
negative tone about the police, taken together with ever fewer | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
police officers doing evermore, has seen a tomorrow live police service | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
with sickness and stress soaring. I give way. I am very grateful to my | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
honourable friend and he is absolutely right to go back to | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
Labour's success of neighbourhood policing. Is he as dismayed as I am, | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
that what is happening in my own constituency, is that neighbourhood | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
policing is being withered away and those offices are being put onto | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
response, which is very necessary, but so is neighbourhood policing. | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
That in itself is undermining public confidence in the ability of the | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
police, to listen to the needs of communities. The honourable member | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
was absolutely right. Typically, what you see over the country is a | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
neighbourhood Sergeant responsible neighbourhood Sergeant responsible | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
for making one or two or three teams with PCSO 's, and those who were | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
previously police officers, of neighbourhood policing onto | :07:36. | :07:37. | |
response. On the issue raised earlier on about more on the front | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
line, that was posed a decision by the Home Office in 2012, that was a | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
reclassification of some people on reclassification of some people on | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
response to have local neighbourhood policing duties, even if it was the | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
case that they spent all of their time on response. What was asserted | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
here earlier on that there was more on the front line is simply not | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
right. I will give way. I wonder if my honourable friend could comment | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
on the fact that Humberside police is not the only police force to be | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
judged inadequate, but we are at the lowest level of police officers | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
since the 1970s. I wonder if the Shadow Minister could reflect on how | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
that is for neighbourhood policing, what that actually means? The | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
honourable lady absolutely right. If you look at some of the surveys | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
what the public complained of is what the public complained of is | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
lack of visibility of local police officers. Neighbourhood policing is | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
absolutely key. It is not just about detecting criminals, it is about | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
preventing crime, divert in people from crime, building good community | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
relationships that bring people in, including to cooperate in | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
identifying who criminals are and if you lose the benefits of | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
neighbourhood policing at its most serious in relation to terrorist | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
crime, it was the former head of counterterrorism who said | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
neighbourhood policing is the golden thread that leads to the global. | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
Patient policing with communities where they cooperate by identifying | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
wrongdoing, and in this particular case, wrong doing of the worst | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
possible kind. I will give way. Will my honourable friend also confirmed | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
that this is not just about crime. When we have floods in our | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
communities, the police are the first point of call. When we have | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
public order parades, deeply is the first port of call. When we have | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
football matches, the police are the first port of call. Policing is not | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
just about crime. The honourable member is absolutely right. It is | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
about the wider duties of the police service. The College of Policing has | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
done some good work. By the way, the National Audit Office has called on | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
Home Secretary to understand better what the police actually do, because | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
it is not just about that element focused on crime, it is about the | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
wider responsibilities. On the issues of the floods, it was the | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
police together with the fire, ambulance and other services, the | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
Environment Agency, who were guarding premises against being | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
looted, for example in some parts of the country. I can use an example | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
from last Saturday. I was deeply impressed to see the West Midlands | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
Police service, together with other police services all coming together | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
to police the pernicious attempt to march through Birmingham, keeping | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
apart counted demonstrations and those who were there to support | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
Pegeida, doing a tremendous job and doing it with the community. The | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
honourable gentleman is absolutely right from his experience. | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
He may have heard me ask the Minister to comment on the issue of | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
burglaries in Saddleworth. There has been almost a 50% increase in | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
burglaries and I wondered if he wanted, if my honourable friend | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
wanted to comment on what the Minister said? There has been a | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
reduction of 2,000 front-line posts - I have had this confirmed from | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
Greater Manchester Police. The honourable lady makes a very | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
powerful point because if you look at the statistics overall, areas of | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
volume crime have gone down. I will come on in a moment to say it is not | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
true what the Government says that crime is falling. Areas of volume of | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
crime have gone down. Cars and houses by and large are more | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
difficult now to break into. Having said that, there are spates of | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
burglaries all over the country. And what is again key is good | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
neighbourhood policing. Can I give an example from my own constituency? | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
The admirable Sergeant Simon Hensely, he set up a canoeing club. | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
There were hundreds of young people - I launched it in a canoe - it was | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
one of the most terrifying moments since I became a Member of | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
Parliament - hundreds of young people joined that club. Very good | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
relationships were formed with them. And one benefit of that is that when | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
it came to being an outbreak of burglaries, they came forward and | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
said, "We think we know who the bad lads are." It is that neighbourhood | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
policing, no substitute for neighbourhood policing, it's the | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
bedrock of policing in our country. I give way. The honourable gentleman | :12:29. | :12:38. | |
is making a fair point. It would be churlish not to accept there has | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
been progress. Would he agree one of the legacies of the previous Labour | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
Government was an inordinate amount of bureaucracy and paperwork which | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
kept many front-line officers in the station processing data rather than | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
out catching criminals? That is something that this Government has | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
tackled which is why we have seen a reduction in recorded crime? We did | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
prescribe too much too often. It is right by consensus across political | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
parties that the last Government seems to be less prescriptive. There | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
are certain things you will always prescribe. I don't disagree with the | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
point being made by the honourable member. I thank my honourable friend | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
for giving way. In relation to the neighbourhood police point that he | :13:25. | :13:27. | |
was making earlier, does he agree with me that in relation to the very | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
serious act of gun crime, neighbourhood policing is crucial in | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
piecing together all the small bits of information which may bring a | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
conviction forward? Would he assist me in some way to bring forward the | :13:43. | :13:53. | |
tragic shooting that I mentioned earlier in Wood Green where this man | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
was shot in a drive-by shooting and we would like to have that crime | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
solved. It is difficult to comment on the detailed circumstances other | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
than to say what you need is capacity to catch those guilty of | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
murder. One of the most heinous crimes - forgive me if I say what I | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
said in answer to a question just now - key to that is good | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
neighbourhood policing. The evidence is that that's vital in terms of | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
information and intelligence gathering and if you run down | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
neighbourhood policing, the inevitable consequence is that you | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
make it more difficult to detect criminals of that kind. I give way. | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
I'm grateful. Neighbourhood policing is key. Will he agree with the | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
commander who I met last Friday, who made the point that although the | :14:44. | :14:51. | |
numbers of some of the neighbourhood units are down, they are more | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
effective? On that point, it depends where you are talking about. For | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
example in the West Midlands Police service, they sought to detain | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
dedicated numbers in high-risk, high-demand areas. Taken as a whole, | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
the numbers have been going down. So, there will be variances at any | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
one point in time. The evidence is clear. There has been a remorseless | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
reduction of the number of police officers and a hollowing out of | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
neighbourhood policing. Now, I have given way about nine times. Can I | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
make a bit more progress and then I will gladly give way to the | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
honourable gentleman? Now, returning to where I was, what I want | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
therefore to do today is to start by celebrating as the police bravery | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
awards showed that we are policed by ordinary men and women doing | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
extraordinary things often in the most difficult of circumstances. Mr | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
Deputy Speaker, they deserve better than what happened inthe run-up to | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
the Comprehensive Spending Review. Yesterday, I was privileged to speak | :15:56. | :16:03. | |
at the 20th anniversary, together with Conservative Ministers, 20th | :16:04. | :16:05. | |
anniversary of the Docklands bomb. I was talking to police officers after | :16:06. | :16:14. | |
that. Brave men and women, outstanding dutied and the sense of | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
obligation to their community. They talked to me about the mounting | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
pressures that had been on them, the challenges of counter-terrorism, the | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
impact of the last five years, and to be frank, they were absolutely | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
dismayed that their Government had contemplated cutting the police | :16:32. | :16:33. | |
service in half. As I will come to say in a moment, that is precisely | :16:34. | :16:43. | |
what had been contemplated. In my constituency, I saw Police police | :16:44. | :16:55. | |
comunt Police police -- Police Community Support Officers in tears. | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
It should never have happened. After cutting 25% in the last Parliament, | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
right up until the night before the Comprehensive Spending Review, the | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
Government was contemplating a further 22% cut in this Parliament. | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
The Home Secretary quite simply failing to stand up for the police | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
service. We were on the brink of complete catastrophe, as a police | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
officer said to me yesterday, which would have had very serious | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
consequences. I have to say demonstrating a disregard for the | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
first duty of any Government, which is the safety and security of its | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
citizens. But under, Mr Deputy Speaker, under pressure from the | :17:43. | :17:50. | |
public, from the police, and from the Labour Party, the Chancellor | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
U-turned and a promise was made and I would like to read it. I think, | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
quite clearly, the Police Minister has forgotten it. He said, "I am | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
today announcing that there will be no cuts in the police budget at all. | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
There will be real-term protection for police funding. The police | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
protectors and we are going to protect the police." To make this | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
point, in parallel, there were big cuts elsewhere for example to the | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
Border Force, but let's examine that statement to the House. That | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
statement, that promise to the public, to the police, and to | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
Parliament has been broken. The Chancellor said he would protect the | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
police but now we know that police budgets are still being cut. Take | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
the force, take the force covering my constituency, the West Midlands | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
Police service, an excellent police service, they are suffering in the | :18:48. | :18:55. | |
next financial year a ?10.2 million cut in real terms, in real terms, | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
contrary to what the Police Minister said earlier on, in real terms. Yes, | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
they are using the ?5 mechanism, but it will raise but ?3.3 million, so | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
?7 million cut overall in real terms. I give way. Does he agree | :19:12. | :19:22. | |
specifically on the point about the pre-set, a force like Northumbria, | :19:23. | :19:32. | |
under our excellent PCC, has had the lowest pre-set and has had to accept | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
that ?5 maximum with great regret to try and maintain services? I totally | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
agree with the honourable lady. Can I pay tribute to somebody who was a | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
great parliamentarian, and she has been a great Police and Crime | :19:47. | :19:53. | |
Commissioner. The work Vera Baird has done on domestic violence is | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
admirable and first-class. And you are absolutely right, because as I | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
will come to say later on, Northumbria is like the West | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
Midlands, it has been hit twice as hard as leafy Tory shire police | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
thank my honourable friend for thank my honourable friend for | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
giving way. Will he also reflect and agree with me that some of our | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
police forces are very stretched by the crime that they are dealing with | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
at the moment, the Greater Manchester Police in Salford, we | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
have had 19 shootings in a period of 20 months, very regular, some | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
weekends, four shootings in the same day. This protection of the public | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
issue is important. Why should our police force be so stretched in | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
Greater Manchester when they have that to deal with? It is a real | :20:40. | :20:48. | |
issue. 8.5 million cut in real terms, in real terms, contrary to | :20:49. | :20:51. | |
what was said at this dispatch box. What we are seeing is profoundly | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
worrying signs that after a generation of progress, despite the | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
heroic efforts of the Police and Crime Commissioner, Tony Lloyd, and | :21:01. | :21:03. | |
the Greater Manchester Police service, is crime is starting to | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
rise once again. I give way. He is absolutely right to be pointing out | :21:08. | :21:17. | |
this sleight of hand by the Government. The real unfairness is | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
this. We have a relatively low council tax base, so the precept | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
brings in relatively small amounts of funding. Nothing like the amounts | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
of funding that have been cut by the central government grants. But added | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
to that, they are the areas that tend to have the higher crime rates, | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
so need is not matched by the resources. It is a double whammy for | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
the urban areas and it really penalises places like Greater | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
Manchester. The honourable gentleman puts it very powerfully. There is no | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
question of it, but that need is not that which determines the way this | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
Government allocates funds. Whether it is to the police service, or | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
whether it is to local government. I will return to that point | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
specifically later on. So, Mr Deputy Speaker, in relation then to broken | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
promises, there was another broken promise. The Prime Minister said in | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
2010 that he would protect the front-line - can I stress once | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
again, not true - 12,000 front-line officers have since been lost. A | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
broken promise. And to add insult to injury, not only are the Tories | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
continuing to slash police funding, but they are expecting the public to | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
pay more for it. The Tories' sums rely on local people being charged | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
an extra ?369 million in council tax. To finish this point - our | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
citizens therefore and our communities that we serve are being | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
asked to pay more for less. I give way. In a forward-looking county | :22:49. | :22:55. | |
like Hertfordshire, which has the pressures of supporting London and | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
Luton, major roads to police, it's been possible through modern methods | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
to use more police on the front-line, more modern methods and | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
they are cutting the precept in Hertfordshire for the police and | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
finding the funding settlement perfectly adequate. Every week I see | :23:14. | :23:21. | |
innovation in the police service, of that there is no doubt. Could I take | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
one point from what the honourable gentleman is saying? In relation to | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
road policing, there are profoundly worrying signs that the progress | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
that has been made over many years, particularly under the last Labour | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
Government, in reducing road deaths, that progress is being reversed as a | :23:41. | :23:48. | |
consequence of cutbacks. Innovation I'm in favour of. Greater | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
collaboration, between the Police and Fire Service, likewise. | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
Ultimately, there is a simple, grim reality. The remorseless downward | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
pressure on our police service, the people who are paying the price are | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
not just our police officers, but the public that we serve. Now, Mr | :24:07. | :24:13. | |
Speaker, we - can I - all right. On the basis that I believe you are an | :24:14. | :24:24. | |
old Macmillanite, I will give way. Wouldn't he agree with me that if | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
you look around the country at the reserves that the police forces | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
have, they are very substantial. In Hertfordshire, 48 million. Around | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
the country, as high as 71 in one case. Well, I think, if I can put it | :24:37. | :24:45. | |
this way, as we used to say in the T, that is a canard. Of course it | :24:46. | :24:55. | |
is right that use should be made of reserves. Why are reserves built up? | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
It ranges from investment in bringing together three or four | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
buildings into one, like has been done in Birmingham for the West | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
Midlands Police service, through better technological equipping of | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
our police service, because we need a technological revolution in | :25:17. | :25:17. | |
policing in Britain. Planning ahead because we need to | :25:18. | :25:28. | |
recruit more police officers. So even if the overall numbers are | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
falling, at least you are bringing in some fresh blood to the service. | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
If you look at the various studies that have been done of the police | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
reserves, including by the National Audit Office, it has never stood up | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
this line that says, somehow, there are hundreds of millions there which | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
only the -- which if only the police to used, all would be well. We are | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
with the police when they say that efficiency savings can be made. For | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
example, crucially, in the run-up to the last general election, we | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
ourselves identified ?172 million that could be saved by mandated | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
procurement alone. Taken together with other measures like, for | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
example, full cost recovery on gun licences, ending this bizarre | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
arrangement where the police have to subsidise the granting of gun | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
licences, if that plan had been embraced by this government, we | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
would have saved 10,000 police officers in the first three years of | :26:34. | :26:40. | |
this Parliament. Now, efficiency savings are one thing. Ultimately, | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
decisions have to be made, and we listened to the police, because in | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
light of the tragic attacks in Paris, they said up to 5% efficiency | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
savings, yes, we think we can make those. We identified ourselves how | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
one could do that. It was clear beyond any doubt, the chilling | :27:03. | :27:05. | |
message from the police who are so vital in maintaining our security, | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
that to go beyond that would be to compromise public safety. The police | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
said, and I will never forget, the very powerful letter from the head | :27:19. | :27:27. | |
of counterterrorism, when he said, post-Paris now we have to look | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
afresh. There was an exercise in government. Now we have to look | :27:31. | :27:41. | |
afresh. Ultimately, numbers matter. Forgive me if I finish this very | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
important point. Numbers matter. You need a surge capacity on the one | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
hand in the light of an attack like Paris. You need neighbourhood | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
policing by the way of intelligence gathering on the other hand, and you | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
need more firearms officers. Indeed, we have got 6000 firearms officers, | :28:00. | :28:06. | |
that is 1000 firearms officers, down from 2008. We listened to the | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
police. I will give way to somebody who has not already spoken. | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
I'm very grateful to the Shadow Minister for giving way. It is all | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
well and good bandying numbers and saying we must have the ability of | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
armed officers to make a surge, but if his party leader is to be | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
believed, what are they going to do, just waved guns at people and say, | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
please stop what you are doing with that would he take the opportunity | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
to disassociate himself from his leader's remarks about what armed | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
police can and cannot do? We all of us on this | :28:43. | :28:56. | |
site have a very simple view. If I can draw a parallel with a deeply | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
moving statement I heard one of those Parisien officers making, when | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
he and his colleagues went into the Bataclan club. Innocent men and | :29:04. | :29:05. | |
women, including British citizens, terrified by Joe practising the most | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
appalling form of terrorism. He said, I had to make a split-second | :29:11. | :29:17. | |
judgment. I made it. As a consequence, I saved lives. That is | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
our very clear position. I will give way. I thank the Shadow Minister for | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
giving way. I am slightly confused. He says savings can be made. The | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
statement today includes a real term increase in anti-terrified and in, | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
so why are the Labour party opposing this settlement? Because when | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
announcements were made by the Government, after Paris, there was a | :29:42. | :29:49. | |
series of announcements made. There was one which predated Paris but | :29:50. | :29:51. | |
that was the investigatory Powers Bill. We said we support the broad | :29:52. | :29:58. | |
approach of the Government, which says you need advanced means to | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
combat those who use the .net. We support the Government who use more | :30:03. | :30:12. | |
money for MI5, MI6, GCHQ. We supported the Government when it | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
said there would be additional resources made available from the | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
British Army for counterterrorism, but ultimately, it came down to | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
this. If you listen to Chris Sims, the former Chief Constable of the | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
West Midlands on the one hand, or on the other hand, to Bernard Hogan | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
Howe here in London, they say a majority of the leads that lead us | :30:33. | :30:39. | |
to detecting who terrorists are comes from good neighbourhood | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
policing. If you have continuing downward pressure on neighbourhood | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
policing, hollowing out of neighbourhood policing, in the words | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
of Mark Rowley, it is the ayes and ears of counterterrorism effort. It | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
is not enough simply to acquit the special services and special forces | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
with additional powers, neighbourhood policing is important | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
on every front and in particular on counterterrorism. Mr Deputy Speaker, | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
the simple reality is neighbourhood policing will continue to be | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
hollowed out. 18,000 officers have been lost since the current Prime | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
Minister took office in 2010. 1300 have gone in the last six months | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
alone. Today confirms that the Tory's back door cuts to police | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
forces will inevitably lead to further police officer losses. Mr | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
Deputy Speaker, it would appear that the Government is oblivious to the | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
consequences of its actions. The former head of the Association of | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
Chief Police Officers, as it was, Hugh Orde, was right when he said a | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
generation of progress is being reversed. Police in the 21st century | :31:52. | :31:59. | |
face in addition new challenges of terrorism, cyber crime, child sex | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
exploitation and abuse. The threats undoubtedly to the British security | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
in the 21st century demand a modernised, more responsive and | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
better equipped police service, not a smaller one. And when the police | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
minister said in defence of the Government's position, that crime is | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
falling, not true. Crime is changing, and in July of this year, | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
when we see the estimated 6 million cyber and online crimes included in | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
the official statistics, we will see crime nylon double. Resources are | :32:35. | :32:41. | |
diminishing, just when demand is soaring. Not just those triple | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
challenges, but police recorded crime is rising, and some of the | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
most serious crimes have soared to the highest level in years. A major | :32:51. | :32:57. | |
increase in knife crime, up 9%. A 27% rise in violent crime, including | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
a 14% increase in the murder rate, while sexual offences have gone up | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
36%. Reported rape was the highest since 2003, and victims are being | :33:09. | :33:20. | |
let down, with half of cases closed without a suspect being identified. | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
And increasingly, the police are being left to pick up the pieces as | :33:24. | :33:25. | |
are other public agencies are slashed. Who is it too goes after | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
looked after children if you have social services departments in | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
councils badly depleted? It seems to be the case... I will continue and | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
conclude my remarks, because forgive me if I say it, I have been generous | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
with interventions. I want to see the maximum time for contributions | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
to be made in this important debate. The Home Secretary doesn't seem to | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
understand the challenges to the modern police service, or the | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
complexity of the modern police service, because despite his massive | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
and growing challenges, not only are police budgets being cut, but the | :34:02. | :34:08. | |
funding formula fiasco, in which the Home Office misallocated hundreds of | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
millions of pounds of police funding, means that the doomed | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
review of the unfair funding formula has been delayed for another year. | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
That means a stopgap settlement of only a year. More uncertainty, more | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
unfairness. My force, the West Midlands and Northumbria, both | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
facing cuts which are double that, which Surrey receives. I spoke | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
earlier when the honourable gentleman intervened. There was a | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
second tradition, the tradition of Robert Peel but the second | :34:43. | :34:54. | |
tradition, the tradition of Harold Macmillan, of noblesse oblige, of | :34:55. | :35:02. | |
serving the nation. Quite frankly, in both this settlement and in the | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
local government settlement that will be debated later, there has | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
been a grotesque unfairness of approach where need has been ignored | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
in favour of political heartlands being looked after. But in bringing | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
my remarks to a conclusion, I would ask the Minister three questions. | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
First, on unimportant detail, where exactly is the funding for the | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
National International capital city Grant coming from? Why is it in the | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
published information, not included in the core police settlement | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
figure? Second, when will the Minister finally replace the broken | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
funding formula and give forces the long-term certainty they need to | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
modernise, and address the challenges of the 21st century? He | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
expects to implement the new formula in the 1718 financial year. We will | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
need a new formula by the end of this year at the latest. Will he | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
begin to review the progress in that in the near future. And third, when | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
will the Minister for policing stop this financial roller-coaster, and | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
finally be frank about the public and the police about the cuts that | :36:17. | :36:24. | |
he and the Home Secretary in pain -- intend to impose? In conclusion, yes | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
we will vote against this police grant settlement, because for this | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
side of the House, the first duty of any government, and of any | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
parliament is the safety and security of its citizens. Yes, we | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
will vote against, because that is what is at risk if we continue down | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
this path of remorseless reduction in the number of police officers. Mr | :36:47. | :36:53. | |
Deputy Speaker, quite simply, the time has come to put public safety | :36:54. | :37:00. | |
first, and to cut crime, not cut cops. | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
John Stevenson. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I would like to say a few | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
words about funding and the situation in Cumbria. Firstly there | :37:11. | :37:17. | |
is the police budget we are discussing and the police funding | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
formula which is for the future but of equal importance. Before saying | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
anything specific, I would like to make one or two general | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
observations. It is well documented that Carlyle and Cumbria experienced | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
serious flooding prior to Christmas. This was a very large local | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
emergency. I have to say the Cumbria Constabulary rose to that challenge | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
brilliantly. They offered leadership in Cumbria, they offered practical | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
support, there was the coordination of the emergency services and there | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
was a lot of empathy. I met one PC who himself was flooded and instead | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
of being at home, he was on duty helping everybody else. This | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
demonstrated to me the importance of the police have over and above their | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
normal duties. I would also like to pay tribute to the Cumbrian PCC | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
Richard Rhodes. He has led Cumbria extremely well in a mature and | :38:14. | :38:21. | |
professional way and he has wide support across the county. This | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
demonstrates to me that the creation of the police crime Commissioners | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
was the right one and I will be supporting their continuation. I | :38:30. | :38:37. | |
will then turn to two issues, please funding in general. The House will | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
recall the debate that was initiated by the opposition, calling for a 10% | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
cut in police funding. I welcome the decision of the Government not to | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
follow the opposition's lead but to maintain and increase funding for | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
the police. We recognise there are still difficult financial | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
circumstances. This will be welcomed in Cumbria and has certainly been | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
welcomed by the Cumbrian Constabulary. We recognise the | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
police are an important part of our society, they are the lead emergency | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
service, and with concerns about security and safety, this funding | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
will give confidence to our communities. The other important | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
issues the police funding formula and I would refer back to my earlier | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
comments. Floods brought home to me how important it is that we have a | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
Cumbria police force. They offer leadership, local knowledge and an | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
ability to respond which I'm not convinced would have been there if | :39:37. | :39:43. | |
Cumbria had been part of a larger, Morimoto police force with | :39:44. | :39:44. | |
headquarters elsewhere than in Cumbria. The funding formula would | :39:45. | :39:53. | |
have a negative impact on Cumbria. My local newspaper recognised this | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
and ran a campaign which attracted a huge amount of support, and it | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
demonstrated again to me that support for a Cumbria police force | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
was deep rooted. I was therefore delighted when the minister was in | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
listening mode and took on board the potential problems and issues for | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
places like Cumbria and agreed to postpone or pull-back from going | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
forward with his consultation in introducing a new formula and I wait | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
for the new consultation to come out. Therefore, I would take this | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
opportunity to emphasise what the key issues are for my county, which | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
are the morale of tea and sparsity. -- room relative. There are half a | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
million people on Cumbria but if you superimposed them there would be 20 | :40:40. | :40:47. | |
million people. There is a large mountain range and we are long way | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
from any other urban centre. Manchester is two hours away, even | :40:52. | :40:58. | |
Newcastle is over an hour. I look forward to the consultation and I | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
will certainly be participating in it. I would quite simply conclude by | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
saying I give full support to the Government financing in the present | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
settlement and I'm glad to see we are still the party of the police | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
and the party of law and order. Keith Vaz. Thank you, it is a | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
pleasure to follow the honourable member for Carlisle who has put some | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
important points forward for discussion during this debate. He | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
may claim his side is the party of police and Lauren order, but let's | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
make this all party and we can all praise the work of the local police | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
force, and all support the principles of the rule of law and | :41:39. | :41:48. | |
law and order. I think that is something which will go across the | :41:49. | :41:50. | |
whole house. The minister began by paying tribute to the appointment of | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
the new sergeant Irv Arms who was formerly in the Ministry of Justice | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
but has now taken his place in the House -- Serjeant at Arms. | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
Not just because it is huge qualities, I welcome him, but also | :42:03. | :42:09. | |
the first ethnic minority Serjeant at Arms in the history of | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
Parliament. He was appointed absolutely on merit. Mr Deputy | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
Speaker, as the Serjeant at Arms was not in place when I pay tribute | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
earlier on, may I pay tribute again. Not only did I have the honour of | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
giving him a reference for this job, he comes from one of the great | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
regiments of the British Army. We will now have another tribute to the | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
Serjeant at Arms from the shadow minister policing. I'm grateful now | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
that the Serjeant of arms is in place, I was grateful to shake his | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
hand the other day. These deeply welcome to the House, we welcome to | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
have here. It is a long and honourable role in the House, like | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
the right honourable member, I celebrate the first ethnic minority | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
Serjeant at Arms. What I would say, there was plenty of time, everybody | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
is welcome to him. It is the Policing Bill, we want to get | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
through, we only have to forro three p.m.. Absolutely Mr Speaker, we move | :43:18. | :43:29. | |
on. We move on to the debate on the Police Grant. I am pleased to see | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
the honourable member in place, when he was police minister, funding was | :43:36. | :43:42. | |
provided. The House voted in support of every one of emotions he put | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
before the House when he was police Minister. It did provide additional | :43:47. | :43:53. | |
funding. Can I pay tribute to my local police force? Tomorrow | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
Leicestershire police force will celebrate their 180th anniversary at | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
a ceremony in Leicester Cathedral and at the Guildhall. I want a page | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
or be to my Chief Constable, Simon Cole, for the excellent work it | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
does. And the police and crime commission. And to say how sorry I | :44:14. | :44:23. | |
was that Sir Clive will be sent standing down, because he has made a | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
superb effort and all-party basis to tackling crime in the local area. | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
They make a great team. We need to acknowledge what happens at a local | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
level. We are in parliament talking about global figures, but policing | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
is about what happens to local people on the front line. Sitting on | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
the Home Affairs Select Committee we are very conscious of that when we | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
discuss the big issues. It is what happens at a local level which | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
matters. As I have said to the minister before. The current police | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
funding formula does mean that we are ?5.6 million a year less well | :45:02. | :45:08. | |
off than other equivalent authorities, like, for example, | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
Derbyshire. The police and crime commission has recommended an uplift | :45:14. | :45:20. | |
to the maximum amount permissible, 1.90%. On behalf of my local area, I | :45:21. | :45:27. | |
welcome the fact that there are no further cuts we can see in the | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
figures that have been given. However, as has been said, there are | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
17,000 fewer police officers stand there were when this government took | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
office. This is a matter of concern. As the Minister knows, I said to | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
them, I welcomed the fact he decided to tackle the issue of police | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
funding. And to look at the issue of formula. He came before the House, | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
in his own words, eating humble pie. Modest as always, recognising that | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
the whole funding formula procedure was a bit of a shambles, as the | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
select committee said in its report. I know the shadow minister would | :46:12. | :46:14. | |
like to claim credit on behalf of the Labour Party,. In the government | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
in its tracks, but he should remember the Home Affairs Select | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
Committee conducted an enquiry into this, and one of our members is here | :46:25. | :46:33. | |
the honourable lady for Louth and Horncastle. Following her assault on | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
Julian Symons during pro Minister questions. I'm not saying he should | :46:40. | :46:46. | |
take none of the credit. He is not a liberal Democrat, you doesn't have | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
to take all the credit for these things. The select committee have | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
hearings. We considered evidence, and we conducted the process was a | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
shambles, and it needed to be looked at again. And it needed to be | :47:01. | :47:09. | |
agreed, it took Devon and Cornwall, Andrew White, the Chief Executive, | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
to tell the country where very senior and learn it and intelligent | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
people in the Minister's apartment worth unable to tell us the formula | :47:20. | :47:25. | |
was wrong. I rate to the Minister on the first ferry to ask him on an | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
update on the consultation for the police funding formula. The process | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
he began was actually very important. He agreed to consult. In | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
the committee's report, we set out a process we thought he should follow. | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
I know he doesn't respect the work of the select committee, he says so | :47:47. | :47:54. | |
on a number of occasions. In our 10th recommendation, we even | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
suggested a number of organisations that could be part of that process. | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
He says to me, that he wrote to me yesterday. Actually, the letter has | :48:04. | :48:10. | |
not arrived. When we discussed changes in policing, we talk about | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
investment in IT, I wonder whether the private office of the Minister | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
could invest in e-mail. E-mailing me the letter would be a very quick way | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
of ensuring I had it before the debate. We all await and watch our | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
e-mail at this moment, waiting for this letter which was supposed to be | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
sent yesterday. I know he has a number of officials here today. | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
Maybe that is why there is nobody in the office sending out e-mails. I | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
would like to receive it so I can share it with other members of the | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
committee. I hope it will tell us that the consultation process is | :48:50. | :48:52. | |
about to begin. What we don't want to do is to run out of time on this | :48:53. | :49:00. | |
process. I believe him when he says that he once the widest possible | :49:01. | :49:05. | |
consultation. He is right, he met with me and every other member who | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
came to see them. That is the right thing to do. Unless we start this | :49:10. | :49:18. | |
process, consult with the Chiefs and the PCCs and the police chiefs | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
Council, and other parties in this House, we will not get to a final | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
conclusion. Maybe the letter will arrive before I finish speaking, we | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
don't know, we would like to come as soon as possible. I thank my right | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
honourable friend for giving way, making a very thoughtful and | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
effective speech. I want to ask him, as part of the consultation, will | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
they take on board the issue, which I raised with the front bench, that | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
some police forces are peculiarly stretched by a local crime surge. In | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
Salford we have suffered the issue of 21 shooting is taking place over | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
18 months. The rolling out of neighbourhood policing, which I have | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
seen and we have talked about in the debate is a very serious issue. The | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
police have so much more to do because of a crime surge like we | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
have seen in Salford, that should be addressed. My honourable friend is | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
absolutely right, I have visited her constituency, I know these are | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
important issues. At the end of the day we need to give the police the | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
resources that they need, but these kind of issues have to be handled | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
locally. It does need to be addressed and monitored. 1.I hope we | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
will be able to cover, maybe the Minister can cover it in his closing | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
remarks, the issue of the extension of the contract to the Mitch Garbutt | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
Commissioner. It is really important we do not get into a position as we | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
have with water cannon, Mr Deputy Speaker, where the Mayor of London | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
waited a whole year for a decision to be made as to whether or not | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
water cannon should be used. The Commissioner is set to appear before | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
the select committee on the 23rd at the very few discuss this and other | :51:05. | :51:14. | |
matters. -- 23rd of February. I hope he is able to meet with the Mayor of | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
London to give some sort of indication, because that sort of | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
security at the top of the Met, which represents one fifth of | :51:24. | :51:26. | |
policing in our country, in budgets, it is really important. I hope that | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
will remind the Minister that these decisions need to be made, in the | :51:33. | :51:39. | |
interests of policing is a whole, the commission and Parliament. Two | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
final points I would like to raise. The first is the wider issue, of | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
what exactly we want the police to do. One of the recommendations we | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
made in our report, what are the drivers of crime and police demand? | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
Of course we live in tough times. The government of course will blame | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
the opposition for what it did when it was in government. The issue | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
remains, resources are always going to be something Parliament and the | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
government is going to look at very carefully. I think the police | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
service needs to know exactly what the government is prepared to fund. | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
Is it more work, as far as immigration is concerned? We see | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
police officers acting nowadays as if they were immigration officers, | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
because they deal with so much of these issues. And they did not deal | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
with previously. The Minister knows the House knows the number of cases | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
that get to the custody suite, because those who are there are | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
actually suffering from mental illnesses, and should not be there | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
in the first place. Police officers are being used as social workers. We | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
know meetings with local authorities and others, "Ree is take up a whole | :52:59. | :53:08. | |
lot of time. When we begin the consultation on police funding and | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
the formula, the Minister needs to tell police forces exactly what the | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
government is prepared to fund. I know the government has turned its | :53:17. | :53:23. | |
nose up at the idea of a Royal commission. The committee favoured | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
this in the last Parliament. We do need to look at what we want our | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
police officers to do, they cannot do everything. At the moment they | :53:32. | :53:38. | |
are doing everything. The appointees making, sometimes we over rely on | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
our police for a lot of things stop controversy in my constituency | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
because the police were not able to police the Armistice Day March. When | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
it came to get there were plenty of local councillors and volunteers who | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
were able to do that, without using the police resources, it was a great | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
success. She is absolutely right, there are other people who can step | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
in. Those of us who are supporters of football clubs, including | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
Leicester City, currently the premises leader, when we go to these | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
football matches, we see a lot of police officers on duty. Part of | :54:15. | :54:23. | |
that could be policed by stewards, who are not warranted officers. You | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
don't need warranted officers to do everything. The honourable lady is | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
absolutely right. The Minister has a real opportunity this year to set | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
his mark on the history of policing. Because he was prepared to tackle | :54:37. | :54:45. | |
the issue of the police funding formula, and get the brickbats you | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
do when you are dealing with vested interests, but he set out principles | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
and a model which can stay for a generation. To do that, you must | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
consult, and begin the consultation immediately. I'm very grateful for | :55:01. | :55:10. | |
the opportunity to add my comments to this important debate. The local | :55:11. | :55:17. | |
policing subject is one I feel very strongly and have a very great | :55:18. | :55:20. | |
interest. Policing and crime rates are great concern to my constituents | :55:21. | :55:27. | |
and all of ours. I get letters from constituents asking what this | :55:28. | :55:29. | |
government is doing to help bring down crime rates. I welcome the | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
reduction in crime over the last years. But recognise the need to | :55:35. | :55:41. | |
make savings, and I commend the Home Office for the very tough decisions | :55:42. | :55:43. | |
they have taken over the course of the last Parliament. I want to | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
express my huge welcome for the announcement in the Autumn Statement | :55:50. | :55:57. | |
that we will keep policing on a stable footing. | :55:58. | :56:04. | |
In particular, in conjunction with the flexibility given around the | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
precept, especially for those with the lowest precepts in the country | :56:11. | :56:17. | |
such as Essex. Given my constituents' natural concerns | :56:18. | :56:20. | |
around crime rates, I took it upon myself to a role in the police | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
Parliamentary scheme, which I would strongly recommend to all honourable | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
members. It is quite a time commitment, it is 20 days at least | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
in different parts of the force, but it has given me a very strong and | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
valuable insight into the true pressures of the police, the changes | :56:36. | :56:42. | |
and innovations they need to bring in and are bringing in. I would like | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
to put on record my enormous gratitude to Chief Inspector Stephen | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
Kavanagh and all of those who I went out with who made me feel extremely | :56:51. | :56:53. | |
welcome and have been extremely supportive. I have had some | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
extraordinary opportunities on this scheme. I have been with the Juno | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
teams tackling domestic silence and seen how enormously the police | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
approach has taken to domestic violence and how quickly they have | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
adopted or example the new stalking legislation we brought in, and how | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
focused they are on that, which is part of their approach to the hidden | :57:18. | :57:24. | |
harms. I will give way. Has my honourable friend also learned of | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
the welcome with which police officers are bringing on the | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
introduction of on body cameras, because one of the great hopes for | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
those cameras is it will greatly assist persecuting domestic violence | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
cases. Absolutely, I have seen them in action which they can use when | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
they have been called to a domestic dispute and they will then have | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
evidence they arrive of their own which they can use in court, for | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
example, in situations where the victim of domestic violence is | :58:02. | :58:04. | |
nervous or reluctant to come forward and they can prosecute on her | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
behalf. It does rely on our police remembering to turn them on so they | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
are doing good training on that! The police themselves are very pleased | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
to have it. I should also say I have visited a custody suite and | :58:20. | :58:28. | |
honourable member will understand my reluctance for being photographed | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
anywhere near the cells! I see the pressures they have their and is not | :58:32. | :58:39. | |
without difficulties to modernise to new technology. I have also been out | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
with CID and seen the forensic labs. Most of all, I also went to a drug | :58:45. | :58:51. | |
factory which was very interesting. I went to a cannabis factory. It is | :58:52. | :58:59. | |
not often a member of Parliament goes to a cannabis factory. I have | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
also looked at how they deal with the problem of modern day slavery | :59:04. | :59:13. | |
and the sensitivity about how they approach to the gardener is, person | :59:14. | :59:16. | |
who is often left without real means of escape. There are big changes to | :59:17. | :59:25. | |
the way our police are policing and they are standing up to the | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
challenge in what is a difficult funding circumstance. What has | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
overwhelmingly struck me is the sheer commitment and dedication to | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
our police officers. I definitely expected professionalism but I did | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
not expect how passionate they are about their work and to the extent | :59:44. | :59:47. | |
they care about the communities they serve. I want on record my thanks to | :59:48. | :59:53. | |
them and to Stephen Kavanagh for the scheme and do do it. Essex police, | :59:54. | :00:00. | |
whose motto is sworn to serve, has long been an efficient force. I | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
could wax lyrical about this for a long time. It is a very long and | :00:06. | :00:14. | |
honourable and proud constabulary. Her Majesty 's Inspectorate of | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
Constabulary have repeatedly found that Essex police provides better | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
value for money than other police forces. They have a deep programme | :00:23. | :00:31. | |
of collaboration with Kent Police as was mentioned earlier, and | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
collaborating with other forces in the East of England. Wales have one | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
of the lowest reserves in the country so did not have the option | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
to absorb extra pressures and costs by reducing their reserves. The fact | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
they have been able to be successful in what their doom exit all the more | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
remarkable. They continue to look for efficiencies to make sure public | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
money is spent on keeping the public safe. I thank my honourable friend | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
for giving way and she has made an effective point about her local | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
police force and I intend if I get called to speak later, I will say | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
there are similar efficiencies in Lancashire Police. Would she join me | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
in welcoming the ?55 million through the police innovation fund which | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
will continue to allow forces to modernise and create greater | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
efficiencies in the way they operate? I absolutely welcome the | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
announcement and I recognise the funds. There is a lot going on | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
already but it does cost money to modernise and make improvements. | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
While I would not wish we were in the situation where we have such an | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
enormous debt on this country, but in a strange way the drive to create | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
efficiencies, will alternate, when our economy is back on an even keel | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
and the money is flowing in again, we will have an enormously efficient | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
police force in the future, and old practices which have been stuck in | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
their way for many years will have been ironed out. | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
I'm grateful to the honourable lady for giving way. On that point, would | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
she agree part of that innovation and making our police forces more | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
efficient has been the introduction of police commissioners? I wish to | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
come onto that later because I think the innovation of police | :02:19. | :02:20. | |
commissioners has been an enormous achievement of the last Parliament. | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
My police and crime commission has been enormously visible, much more | :02:27. | :02:35. | |
visible than the old ones who people did not realise existed -- police | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
and crime commission. Essex police do remain keen to see a review of | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
the funding formula. The changes to the formula which were previously | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
imposed on last year would see funding to the police increased by | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
10 million, so we are hopeful that a review later this year will increase | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
the amount of central funding for Essex. Essex police is an area with | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
historically low policing precepts. They have been very proud and say | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
they have been a lean and efficient force for a long time. I recently | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
surveyed by residents asking them if they would be prepared to pay extra | :03:18. | :03:24. | |
if it meant police officers -- extra police officers and visibility. The | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
result was overwhelmingly positive. However, because of the rules around | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
how they would be able to put across their case in a referendum and that | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
a referendum would be triggered by a rise of 2% or higher, there was a | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
real concern in Essex with such a low precepts, that we would be only | :03:43. | :03:52. | |
be able to go to 1.99%, thereby a disadvantage for the lower cost | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
forces then the more expensive ones. I'm grateful that this point was | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
listened to by the Chancellor and the Home Office and the governor is | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
looking at sex ability for Police and Crime Commissioners in the | :04:06. | :04:07. | |
lowest precepts for raising their precept. This has made it possible | :04:08. | :04:15. | |
in Essex to raise the base budget for Essex police by 3.8 million to | :04:16. | :04:22. | |
two point 266 million for this year. I think it is right that forces with | :04:23. | :04:30. | |
the lowest precept raise their precept locally rather than just | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
call on central government and national resources to get other | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
members of the public, who are maybe already paying a higher price, to | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
fund it through a greater grant allocation. I think it is understood | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
by local residents. The current budget includes increased investment | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
in specialist police officers and police staff to tackle child sexual | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
exploitation, child abuse, serious sexual offences and domestic abuse. | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
There will also be increased investor three capacity to tackle | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
these horrible crimes and increased support and safeguarding for | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
victims. These are the hidden harm is that we did not use to talk about | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
or recognising the same way. It has been said a way that some of the | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
figures for domestic abuse and other hidden harms and child abuse have | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
been rising and have contributed to the rising of violent crime in some | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
cases. I would maintain that these are not arise in these crimes, it is | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
the confidence of people coming forward to report them, knowing they | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
will be dealt with sympathetically and a different approach the police | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
have been taking and how to deal with these issues. My honourable | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
friend said about the cameras and other changes in legislation which | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
have been brought in. Within the sick list in budget, there will also | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
be greater support and investment in the training needed to equip | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
officers to investigate Internet and cyber crime which are affecting | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
businesses across the country. While I welcome very much the Autumn | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
Statement and this funding review which will enable Essex police to | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
keep more of the PCSOs than they planned, and the innovations they | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
are able to bring in, I would just like to end and say how lucky we | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
have been in Essex to be served by such a fantastic police and crime | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
commission. He is the best police and crime commission in the country. | :06:36. | :06:47. | |
He has served as an inaugural Police and Crime Commissioner. He is far | :06:48. | :06:57. | |
from being a faceless person, his name is incredibly well-known. I | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
have only been able to accept his resignation on the basis that we | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
have the highly able Roger Hurst who will be standing as the candidate | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
for the Conservative Party. I'm sorry, you will have to sit down for | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
a second. I allowed you to have a roared spit at the beginning -- | :07:20. | :07:33. | |
abroad split at the beginning but I think we are in danger of getting | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
into electioneering and campaigning. I am sorry. I'm pleased that the | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
police spending has been protected and I very much welcome this motion | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
today. David Hanson. Thank you, Mr Deputy | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
Speaker, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
debate. Can I'll so welcomed the Sergeant at Arms. We served in the | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
Ministry of Justice many years ago and I welcome his present today. The | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
main debate today is about the police grant and it was an issue | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
that the police minister himself did skirt around. He talked about a | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
range of issues about rationalisation, to do with how we | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
can get better efficiency in our police services, but he avoided the | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
question about the level of police funding that the Government are | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
committed to for the next few years. But let me not start on a negative | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
note, let me start on a positive note. I share with him, and for the | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
member for Castle Point, my admiration for the work of the | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
police and the professionalism of the police service, they do a | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
marvellous job, and we should never forget, I know my honourable friend | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
from Wirral West will notice that every day the police put their lives | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
on the line every day they walk out. Had the recent loss of an officer in | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
Merseyside, and anyone who has been like I have, and the Minister for | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
Erdington has been to the police Memorial Day, will know that the | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
police did a great job and do put their lives on the line every day. | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
The debate today is about the level of financial support to the police | :09:18. | :09:19. | |
service across England and Wales. It is quite clear that that level of | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
support is not sufficient to meet the needs of the police service in | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
the next few years. Nobody will deny that crime has fallen in certain key | :09:32. | :09:40. | |
areas, and no one will do my -- deny that police are trying to reduce | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
those levels in key areas, but I think this debate has missed one of | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
the key points in the question of police, but that losing is not just | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
about crime, it is not about the level of crime and the level of how | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
it can fall or otherwise. The member for Carlisle put his finger very | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
much on it in relation to the difficult circumstances he has had | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
recently, in Cumbria with flooding. The police are the first port of | :10:06. | :10:16. | |
call on public order offence. -- events. On road accidents, on deaths | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
in our community and houses, the police are the first port of call. | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
On public order offence such as football matches or other things | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
such as the parades we have talked about, the police are the first port | :10:31. | :10:39. | |
of call. And because, not always, at weekends the social services and | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
health service are not operational, the police are the first port of | :10:44. | :10:44. | |
call 24 hours a day. The important point that my | :10:45. | :10:54. | |
honourable friend made, the police server reassurance. There are bad | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
visibility, evidence collecting. Not just about solving crime. My worry, | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, the level of settlement we have today will put | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
that level of service at risk. Nobody can deny the service is under | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
pressure. I happen to live in a relatively low crime area in Wales. | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
The police do a great job. I met with the Chief inspector last week, | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
they are doing a great job, crime is relatively low. The budget they are | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
facing is putting complete pressure on the service. Important we examine | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
that, in terms of what the Minister has said, rather than duck around | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
the issues, as he did today. Clearly this government has a small state | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
Conservative view of the world, we have seen that in local government, | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
radically changed by the settlements this week. Does he agree with me | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
that what the average member of the public wants, is the reassurance and | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
police in their communities. What has been proposed in this small | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
state Conservative view of the world is not what voters want? Certainly | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
the constituents of North Wales, and I'm sure the same is true in Durham, | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
they want to see others of all police force engaging with them | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
locally, working locally, providing reassurance, as well as solving and | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
preventing crime. It is extremely important, which the Minister has | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
missed, in relation to the focus on crime fully in certain areas. The | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
question is, the police service is much more than solving crime. I | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
thank my honourable friend for giving way committee is making some | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
very effective point. I have said before in this debate, the issues of | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
gun crime we have in greater Manchester, that is not going to be | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
solved in anyway apart from neighbourhood policing. Sir Peter | :12:58. | :13:06. | |
far a said before he left his post, we need relationship building so | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
people are confident coming forward and giving information to the | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
police, without which they cannot solve the crime -- Peter Fahey. What | :13:15. | :13:32. | |
she's indicating is it is not just about high-level policing, it is | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
about community intelligence, reassuring, and having people know | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
that immunity is, working at a local level. The Minister made very plain, | :13:41. | :13:48. | |
nobody denies we can make the service more efficient, sharing | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
buildings. Absolutely right, we should be doing that. He knows about | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
the contracts, the vehicle contracts, we should be doing that | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
to save money. We should be looking at reforming those measures. The | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
bottom line is they are not compensating for a long-term | :14:06. | :14:07. | |
reduction in the amount of central government grants for local police | :14:08. | :14:15. | |
forces. My own police force in North Wales has made efficiency savings of | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
?19.65 million over the last four years. That is not compensated for | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
the loss of grants they have received. The central point I wish | :14:24. | :14:33. | |
to put the Minister to, the central government grant is being | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
compensated for five rises in the preset in the local level. We have | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
seen a grand reduction of 18% over a four period. We have seen a 14.5% | :14:44. | :14:52. | |
rise in the preset. My constituents are playing more -- paying more in | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
local taxes while they are losing more services. The poorest areas | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
don't have the council tax base to raise that level of resource, as do | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
the rich areas. A one or to macro percent rise in the constituency | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
area where we stand in Westminster will raise a hell of a lot more than | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
a one or to macro percent rise in a community such as North Wales. When | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
the grant is cut to forces like North Wales, and they raise the | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
local precept, my constituents are paying more locally for a service | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
which should be provided as part of the National Service they richer | :15:38. | :15:39. | |
areas contribute to crime level reductions in poorer areas. Or | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
indeed in areas with higher levels of crime. Really important the | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
Minister recognises that. Not simply a case of reducing the amount of | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
grant, hoping we can raise the local precept. It is about having a fair | :15:55. | :16:01. | |
settlement, meeting the needs of the poorest amenities, and the areas | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
where there are higher levels of crime. It is important that we do | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
place on record, that the last Labour government did have 18,000 | :16:13. | :16:14. | |
more police officers than we currently have. Crime levels have | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
consistently fallen during the Labour government. If we can look | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
again in the next 3-4 years, while the Minister holds the office, is | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
how we respond. Yes, on the efficiency agenda, and the central | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
government grant agenda, he will do a great deal to reduce levels of | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
crime, and help build reassurance. He has mentioned crime, and crime | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
falling. I have to agree with my honourable friend for Birmingham, | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
violent crime has risen by 27% in the last year. Victim outcomes for | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
half of offences during 2014-15 were closed without a single suspect | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
being identified. Hate crime is beginning to rise. Sexual offences | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
are starting to rise. Also reporting sexual offences historically is | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
beginning to rise. Violence against women is rising. I accept car crime | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
is falling, shoplifting is falling, other forms of crime is falling, I'm | :17:22. | :17:29. | |
pleased to see me want to use drive down continued levels of crime. The | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
Minister cannot avoid the fact that the funding settlement he has got, a | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
very big standstill for some authorities, and a massive cuts, | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
particularly for those authorities with the highest levels of crime, | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
the highest level of challenge, and the lowest level of council tax base | :17:47. | :17:54. | |
to draw the resources accordingly. My plea to the minister today is | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
simply to say to him, he sounds a little complacent, that all will be | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
well, because crime has fallen, and forces are managing. I say drive the | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
efficiency forward even further, even maybe look at some of the | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
larger issues at least forces. Some of the voluntary mergers we have | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
tried to encourage in the past. Drive efficiency forward, but do not | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
pass on central government grant cuts to local areas that cannot meet | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
that need, and need to raise money locally. The police service demands | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
more, it is trying to do its best in professional circumstances. This | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
settlement, with the new challenges of increased terrorism, cyber crime, | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
fraud, a range of new crimes coming forward, this settlement will not | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
meet that challenge in the next 4-5 years. Certainly in not the next few | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
years. That is why I grieve my honourable friend in making this | :18:55. | :19:03. | |
review, I hope others will do the same engine with me, and exercise | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
that right. I will now announce the result of the ballot held today for | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
the election of a new chair of the environmental audit committee. 460 | :19:14. | :19:20. | |
votes were cast. We have one spoiled ballot paper. The counting went to | :19:21. | :19:29. | |
three stages. 417 active votes were cast in that round, excluding those | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
ballot papers whose preferences have been exhausted. The quotes are to be | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
reached was therefore 209 votes. Mary Creagh was elected chair with | :19:41. | :19:48. | |
258 votes. The other candidate in that round, Gareth Davies, he | :19:49. | :19:57. | |
received 159 votes. Mary Creagh will take up her post immediately. I | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
congratulate the honourable lady on her election. The results of the | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
count under the alternative vote system will be made available as | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
soon as possible in the voting office, and published on the | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
Internet for public viewing. Notwithstanding some of the | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
courtesies which have developed in these matters in recent times, given | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
we are in the middle of a debate, and people are waiting to speak, I | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
would be most grateful if members could leave the congratulations and | :20:30. | :20:36. | |
commiserations to be conducted outside of the chamber. Once again I | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
warmly congratulate the honourable lady, and thank the other candidates | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
for taking part in that important election. Thank you Mr Speaker. May | :20:46. | :20:53. | |
I congratulate briefly the honourable lady on her election to | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
the chair of the environmental audit select committee. None of us will | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
miss the scene Army of paper to which we have been subjected in the | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
past few days. We will all miss the poetry of the honourable member for | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
Brent North. It may not have been from Palgrave 's' Golden Treasury, | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
but it was certainly entertaining. I'm grateful to be called to speak | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
in this important debate on the police crime. Certainly pleased to | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
follow the honourable member for Devon, a former police Minister, | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
experienced in these matters, although I do not always agree with | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
everything he has to say. I'm certainly not always right, you may | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
be surprised to hear, because when the prospect of police and crime | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
commissioners was first mooted, I have to admit I was sceptical. I am | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
a Conservative, like all Conservatives we are wary of change. | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
I was not sure whether we should employ this radical procedure of | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
policing crime commissioners. I'm always pleased to remind myself to | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
remind myself of the great Marquess of Salisbury, when officials and | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
ministers would visit him at Hatfield house, to encourage him to | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
do this or say that, he would sit in his chair, press his fingers to his | :22:22. | :22:29. | |
chin, and say after a moment's thought, it it would be better not. | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
I think governments of all stripes with where that's well when | :22:34. | :22:41. | |
considering officials requests. The Home Secretary was right on the | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
question of policing crime commissioners, to say it is better | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
we do this. Police and crime commissioners have brought about | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
transformative change to our police forces around the country. And to | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
the way the police spend their money, not least in my own county of | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
Staffordshire. Matthew Ellis has done a tremendous job in bringing in | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
new Czech knowledge of, hand-held tablets, which have reduced the | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
amount of time police officers have two working their stations, putting | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
them out onto the beach. At a fraction of a cast, it has | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
effectively created 100 new police officers in Staffordshire. As a | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
result of his reforms, we have not seen any increase in the precept | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
over the last four years. He can balance the budget over the next | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
four years without an increase to the precept. Other honourable | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
members have mentioned body cameras, we call them for the cameras in | :23:47. | :23:57. | |
Staffordshire. -- Bobby cameras. We have led the way in that innovation, | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
not only making it easier for police to prosecute crimes, it makes for | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
challenging for people to make allegations against the police. If | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
they are wearing cameras and are able to film there in behaviour, | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
angry, often young people are far less likely to make claims about the | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
police which are untrue. Also in Staffordshire, Mr Deputy Speaker, we | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
have led the way in introducing a cadet force. There are now 240 cadet | :24:27. | :24:34. | |
officers, between the ages of 14 and 17. Working in the police, working | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
with the police, to build their skills, and work out whether they | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
want to have a career in the police service. My point, Mr Deputy | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
Speaker, if money is spent effectively, it if it is spent | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
considerately, then we can have better policing, we can have a | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
community which feels safer, we can have a police force with the tools | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
it needs to do the job. I will give way to the honourable gentleman. I'm | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
interested in what the honourable gentleman is saying. Central grants | :25:15. | :25:22. | |
to counties like Durham, it is far more important than the precept, | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
even a large increase in the precept does not generate much cash because | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
of the number of band Eight properties we have in County Durham. | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
Does that mean we have not got a level playing field across the UK? | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
The precept is not a way of generating extra cash in places that | :25:43. | :25:50. | |
do not have large numbers of band Eight properties? | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
I think he may be thinking Staffordshire is a green and leafy | :25:56. | :26:07. | |
county. Staffordshire has stoked in it, areas of deprivation in | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
Tamworth, Burton. That county, led by Matthew | :26:11. | :27:05. | |
Alice, has made a saving of ?126 million, which is invested in | :27:06. | :27:07. | |
technology, which makes policing better in Staffordshire. And I dare | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
say banning County Durham. My point remains. The House has lots of time. | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
No I am grateful for your guidance but I wouldn't wish to impose upon | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
the time of my colleagues on both sides and I'm sure the honourable | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
gentleman can make his own speech in his own good time. In Staffordshire | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
we have a police force which works closely with its community. We have | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
cut costs, but police on the streets, introduced innovation and | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
our public is I commend a la police force and our police and crime | :27:35. | :27:36. | |
commission to other police forces around the country. I was wrong to | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
say no to police and crime position is commissioners. It will deliver | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
more money to the police and when it does Staffordshire will lead the | :27:43. | :27:43. | |
way. I would like to begin by thanking my | :27:44. | :27:51. | |
right honourable friend for his remarks about PC Dave Phillips, who | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
we lost on the Wirral last year. He died in the line of duty, doing the | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
job he did so well to protect the people of Wirral. He was a very | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
valued and dedicated officer and his loss is keenly felt. The | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
Chancellor's 11th hour U-turn on funding of policing in November was | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
welcome. The cuts to the Police and Crime Commissioner were of the order | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
of between 62- ?100 million by 2019-20 and would have stretched the | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
capacity of the police force on Merseyside to do its job of keeping | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
us safe to near breaking point. Cuts on that scale would have meant the | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
loss of all police and community support officers, the mounted police | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
section as well as reduce resources for tackling serious and organised | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
crime, sexual offences and hate crime. People Merseyside were very | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
concerned about the impact this would have had an our communities. | :28:47. | :28:54. | |
However, the relief was acknowledged by the spending reductions that our | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
police force was already being. Make. The force has made savings of | :28:58. | :29:05. | |
?77 million, resulting in an overall budget reduction of 20%. Over that | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
period, the number of police officers have fallen by 20%. Police | :29:11. | :29:19. | |
staff by 24%. PCS owes by 25%. The PCS ons are the eyes and ears of | :29:20. | :29:27. | |
policing. On Merseyside, in Wirral in particular and their shift at | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
10pm, before the pubs have close, as a result of the changing shift | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
allowance in 2013. There is not enough money to pay them to be on | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
duty at one of the times and they are most needed. So the relief we | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
Merseyside felt at the news on the Chancellor's U-turn was tempered by | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
what then followed. Since November it has also become clear that the | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
Chancellor's pledge to safeguard our police funding was not the full 180 | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
degrees U-turn we hoped but only partial. The devil is very much in | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
the detail. The pledge the Chancellor made to protect the | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
police depends on an increase in the preceptor compensate the reduction | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
in government grants. Merseyside's general grant was reduced by ?1.3 | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
million. The Home Secretary has made it clear she expects it will be | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
offset by increasing the precept to the maximum available and the Police | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
and Crime Commissioner has consulted the public and police and crime | :30:25. | :30:31. | |
panel. The proposal has got strong support in both cases. However, the | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
2016-17 Merseyside Police faces a Budget deficit of 5.4 million for | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
that period. In order to address this, the deficit it faces and | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
balance the budget, the PCC is proposing to utilise 2.1 million of | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
reserves and requests are forced to make further savings of 3.3 million | :30:53. | :31:01. | |
in 2016-17. Assuming that the PCC's 04 all level of funding stays at | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
this level it is anticipated further savings of 22 million will be | :31:06. | :31:13. | |
required by 2017-18 and 2020-21. While the final settlement will mean | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
the force will have to make less savings than expected, it still | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
represents a real challenge, and those savings will have to be made | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
against a background of increasing demand on the police on Merseyside. | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
The increase in some kinds of crime, including serious offences | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
Merseyside, has been significantly higher than the national average and | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
I would urge the Minister to look at the detail. The overall increase in | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
crime Merseyside between September 20 14-15 with 6.4%. That is just in | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
the course of one year. That was in line with the national averages for | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
England and Wales. However, when we look at other offences the picture | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
is not quite so favourable for Merseyside. Vehicle theft offences | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
saw an increase in 8.9%, while in England and Wales it was 0.1%. | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
Merseyside domestic burglary increased by 1.2%. In England and | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
Wales it deep creased by 5.1 seven. And there was a 48.7% increase in | :32:12. | :32:18. | |
offences involving violence against the person in Merseyside, as opposed | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
to nearly half that, 26.8% in England and Wales. These are very | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
worrying figures. Violent offences involving injury increased 36.8%, | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
compared to 15% in England and Wells. The number of violent | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
offences without injury let up by 60.7 cents, compared to 37% in | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
England and Wales. These figures are matter of real concern. They reflect | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
the very serious need there is not properly funded policing. Sexual | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
offences also increased Merseyside. As well as improvements in recording | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
crime, and this might reflect a greater willingness of victims to | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
come forward, while fat willingness has to be welcomed, it also means | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
there needs to be the resources available to pursue cases and deal | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
with victims in a sensitive way. If that doesn't happen, victims won't | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
continue to come forward in greater numbers. People Merseyside must have | :33:16. | :33:22. | |
we dress in law when they are subjected to violence. The first | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
duty of the state is to protect the public. The Chancellor must ensure | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
the police have the resources to do so. Wirral West is a lovely part of | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
the world, with some areas of real prosperity, but it also has areas of | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
real deprivation. There are some areas of my constituency where | :33:39. | :33:40. | |
people are frightened to go to the shops in the middle of the day due | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
to anti-social behaviour. This is wholly unacceptable. I will give | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
way. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. She is making a very | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
strong case and giving an articulation of the impact these | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
cuts are having on communities. We see every day the impact it does | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
have on those people. Which you also agree with me, the people ask we do | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
today would -- to do this very difficult job, are suffering as a | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
result of these cuts as well as Marco Police Federation towards a | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
last end of last year said three quarters of police officers do not | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
feel valued in the service and are suffering from low morale. That is a | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
cause for concern as well. I thank my honourable friend for his | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
remarks. I think my honourable friend's remarks are indeed | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
absolutely right. It is so important we value police officers and all the | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
police staff to do a very difficult job. All of my constituents deserve | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
to be able to go about their daily lives without fear or anxiety. All | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
of them deserve a police service that is funded at a level that | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
enables it to do its job safely and efficiently. | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
I would like to pay tribute to the work done by all of Merseyside | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
Police staff, including PCSOs, police officers, the so-called back | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
office staff, who have been somewhat maligned by certain members on the | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
opposite benches, who fronts staff rely in perilous situation and | :35:15. | :35:16. | |
without whom the force could not operate. I would also like to pay | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
tribute to the Police and Crime Commissioner, who does such a good | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
job. The Chancellor made his U-turn on extreme cuts the night before the | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
spending review. This suggests an extraordinary lack of planning and | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
calls into question the quality of decision-making made at the | :35:32. | :35:33. | |
Treasury. The police force on Merseyside must be funded on a level | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
that allows it to prevent crime wherever possible and pursue those | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
who commit it effectively. It has to meet the rising demand that come | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
from the level of crime. This is fundamental if we are to live in a | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
civilised, stable and safe society. I urge the Minister to look | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
carefully at policing need Merseyside and fight for a fair | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
police funding settlement. Stephen Hammond. Thank you. It is a great | :35:58. | :36:04. | |
pleasure to speak in this debate. I would like to use my short time to | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
address some of the issues that affect particularly London. Let me | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
start, it is a pleasure to follow the honourable lady. Don't think | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
anyone on this side maligns anyone in the police start. Let me put on | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
record my tribute to the Metropolitan Police and particular | :36:23. | :36:24. | |
in my own borough, which have had some interesting issues to deal | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
within the last month, which I will refer to later. Lars and number of | :36:29. | :36:36. | |
London members had dinner with the Metropolitan Police Commissioner who | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
was going through the modelling my right honourable friend mentioned | :36:40. | :36:50. | |
beforehand. The key thing after that was that there was a number of | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
people, particularly from London. The right Honourable member of | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
Uxbridge and for Richmond Park, who led some delegations to meet the | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
Home Secretary to discuss. From a London point of view, can I say to | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
the police minister, we delighted you listened and the Chancellor and | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
the Home Secretary. It makes a huge difference. This extra money will | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
allow London to deal with the reforms you spoke about, the | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
policing of our national city, but the policing of our local | :37:26. | :37:27. | |
constituency as well. The key point has been that there have been | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
reforms. An amber of these reforms have actually -- a number have | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
rendered the police force more effective. One of the problems with | :37:39. | :37:48. | |
the previous model was people got taken off neighbourhood policing, | :37:49. | :37:50. | |
particularly in London. There were some real issues with it at various | :37:51. | :37:57. | |
times. I have no doubt, so it was a great innovation, it worked, it has | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
worked. But even a reduced number, having those dedicated people there | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
the whole time is having a similar effect. We saw that recently with | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
the help the police got him bringing forward information in solving a | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
very unfortunate murder in my constituency. But of course, what | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
the money does in London is a lot more than just the local, it has to | :38:22. | :38:29. | |
do the National as well. Therefore can I also thank the Home Secretary | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
and the Chancellor for listening to some of the issues about the | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
National Crime Agency. The potential that investment has is | :38:38. | :38:45. | |
to look turn it into a leading law enforcement agency. If you look at | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
one of the debates we have had in this chamber over the last two years | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
over cybercrime, and what that impact has in our national city, at | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
one level it will affect all of us. The Internet and the ability to | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
break into the Internet of things and create problems for people at a | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
personal level is high, but London is the key financial centre of | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
Europe. It is the global financial centre of the world. Cybercrime and | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
the alertness to cybercrime and giving the resources to the police. | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
The able to fight cybercrime, is absolutely key. Therefore, the | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
investment in the National Crime Agency will have a big impact in | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
London and London's reputation and also a national impact. The same | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
applies to counterterrorism. I have just seen at a local level, again, | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
the money that has been invested will have a huge impact both locally | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
and nationally. The policing minister will be aware there were a | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
number of incredibly callous bomb hoaxs at four my local schools two | :39:48. | :39:55. | |
weeks ago. The money secured for the National Crime Agency and | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
counterterrorism not only can be invested in the capability of | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
ensuring that our extra police on the streets, but to deal with and | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
build up the intelligence to defeat some of these callous bomb hoax. The | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
local commander shared with me a lot of information I wouldn't want to | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
bring out today, about the work they have done. That can only happen if | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
we put the money into some of these agencies, as well. What this police | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
grant does is actually protect those agencies, protecting people on the | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
streets, day after day, minute after minute. All of that is absolutely | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
crucial in the city, the great City of London, because we face, as many | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
other cities do around the world and in this country, but I suggest to | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
you a unique and very severe threat from terrorism and the additional | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
pressures, policing pressures on London that other places don't get | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
as well. And therefore particularly welcome for the Metropolitan Police | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
through the London authority as the international city funding worth 174 | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
million, going to the Metropolitan Police and the City of London | :41:06. | :41:06. | |
Police. Isolate the police Minister, we are | :41:07. | :41:17. | |
pleased you have listened. -- I say to the Police Minister. Because what | :41:18. | :41:27. | |
we do across London has an impact nationally and internationally. Like | :41:28. | :41:34. | |
the former shadow police Minister, I will be casting my vote tonight, | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
because of what I think the police need. I want to pay tribute to this | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
government, and my colleagues, I hope, will join us in recognising | :41:47. | :41:53. | |
what a good settlement it is, and support the government a night. I | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
want to speak briefly about Bedfordshire. It has been seriously | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
underfunded over a prolonged period, and has serious problems. I was | :42:05. | :42:21. | |
pleased to visit the Police Minister, and he had a paper from | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
the Chief Constable and the police crime Commissioner, on the desperate | :42:25. | :42:32. | |
state in Bedfordshire. I asked the business question last week, | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
suggesting the funding formula was fundamentally flawed, broken is the | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
term I used, and I hope the funding formula will be very soon rapidly | :42:41. | :42:49. | |
amended. So it provides fair funding for Bedfordshire and other | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
authorities across the country. We have a particular problem with knife | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
crime. Com trouble with Merseyside, greater Manchester and other areas, | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
yet we are substantially less funding for such crime. We have a | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
problem with gun crime, Kabul with these large urban areas, and we | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
cannot cope because we have a serious underfunding. Our police | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
force is a wonderful job with the resources they have, but those | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
resources are simply not good enough. If you compare Bedfordshire | :43:24. | :43:32. | |
with some other rural areas, Wales for example, which is, in terms of | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
police resources, and officers per head of population, they are | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
multiple of that available in Bedfordshire. And yet they have very | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
full crime. There is something fundamentally wrong with the formula | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
that can give such generous police funding, relatively generous, to | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
rural areas where there is very little crime, and a place like | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
Bedfordshire where we have some fairly serious problems with crime | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
that we do our best to deal with, but are struggling. We had an | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
excellent Chief Constable and excellent police crime Commissioner, | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
and they are doing their best. Providing me with detailed arguments | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
and statistics. They make the point over and over again, we need a | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
fairer funding formula, which will bring Bedfordshire into line with | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
other areas. We have an airport which needs extra resources to | :44:33. | :44:35. | |
police, we have crime which I have already mentioned, we have political | :44:36. | :44:43. | |
extremism on both sides of the divide, if I can call it that. Yet | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
again requiring extra police. The police do the very best job they | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
possibly can with the resources they have, but we do not have enough | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
resources to do the job we need to do. I would urge the police | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
Minister, once again to look seriously at the funding formula. | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
Not just an extra bit of cash to help out in the short-term, but | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
actually to fundamentally look at how the funding formula can be | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
revised, so it treats Bedfordshire and every other area fairly with | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
equity to funding. Overall, we still need more funding for the police in | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
general. Even with the lower level of funding we have across the | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
country, it should still be allocated fairly, and Bedfordshire | :45:29. | :45:36. | |
should get its fair amount. I leave it there, Mr Deputy Speaker, I | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
apologise to honourable members and yourself, I am having to go to the | :45:42. | :45:51. | |
European committee, and I apologise if I leave fairly quickly after my | :45:52. | :45:52. | |
speech. Mr Deputy Speaker, the police grant | :45:53. | :46:04. | |
report before us today is good news for police forces across the | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
country, and for the force that covers my constituency, despite the | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
scaremongering we have seen in the press. I strongly welcomed the | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
significant increase in financial resources across England and Wales, | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
and no policing crime Commissioner will face a reduction in cash | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
funding over the next financial year. Credit must go to the Home | :46:25. | :46:30. | |
Secretary and the Policing Minister. I thank you for protecting | :46:31. | :46:40. | |
constituents in my area. The country has to do with the mess left behind | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
by the party opposite, this report confirms we're through the worst of | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
that and under responsible government we can once again offer | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
our police the support they need. Crime is fallen by more than a | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
quarter under this governor. We have seen falls in crime across | :46:59. | :47:01. | |
Lancashire and my own constituency of Pendle. I would just cancelled | :47:02. | :47:10. | |
the honourable member talking about across the country. He's saying | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
things which are not true for greater Manchester. We have seen a | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
40% increase in recorded crime, 46% increase in violent crime, facing a | :47:20. | :47:27. | |
5p of cuts. Could you not talk about across the country, when he's not | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
talking about greater Manchester? She's talking about reported crime, | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
not if you look at the British crime survey, crime has fallen across this | :47:37. | :47:44. | |
country. It is or was being supported as a more accurate | :47:45. | :47:46. | |
reflection of crime rates across the country. I'm going to talk about | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
different rates of crime that have increased. If the honourable lady | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
allows me, I will make more progress with my speech. Very quick | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
intervention, I'm keen for everyone to speak. It is important we put the | :48:01. | :48:07. | |
record right. In July of this year, cyber crime, online fraud will be | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
included in the crime survey of England and Wales. The early | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
estimate is it will add 6 million crimes, see crime doubling. Will the | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
honourable gentleman reflect on what he has just said, and recognise the | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
truth will be told on crime. It is not falling, it is changing. If he | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
holds his horses, I will get onto cyber crime, certain crime not | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
reflected in the crime figures, and why I think the police grant is a | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
sensible situation for the police, investing in dealing with new forms | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
of crime, which have not had to be dealt with in the past by our police | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
forces. Turning back to my own area, drug gangs. They are real problem | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
within the Pendle constituency. We have seen Operation Regenerate, | :48:57. | :49:07. | |
tackling drug crime in my constituency. The government bill | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
will help even further with this, stopping people profiting from | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
selling dangerous drugs to young people. So-called legal highs have | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
caused serious harm to young people in my area, I'm proud to have served | :49:21. | :49:28. | |
on the Bill committee alongside several right honourable members in | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
the House today. While most of the types of crime in the past have been | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
recorded in the crime statistics have fallen, we have seen upward | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
trends in certain types of crime. Violence and sexual offences have | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
increased in recent years. Some of that is to historic underreporting, | :49:48. | :49:54. | |
there are to macro factors. As a country we still face an epidemic of | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
domestic violence against women, and men are affected, too. Just last | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
weekend woman was a victim of a very serious sexual assault in a town | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
which I live. A rare thing to happen in that town, and I'm sure the whole | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
House will join me helping for swift arrests for those guilty of this | :50:15. | :50:17. | |
appalling attack, and expressing every sympathy for the victim. I | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
hope that the Minister can set out how the Home Office will be | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
supporting our police force, and police forces like Lancashire to | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
work with other agencies to make sure domestic violence and sexual | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
offences are reported and the victim is protected. We also face a rise in | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
crimes like modern slavery. Lancashire Police are at the | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
forefront of fighting this. For the first modern slavery orders was | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
given to a man in my constituency, using new powers given to the police | :50:49. | :50:56. | |
by the coalition Modern Slavery Act. We face new forms of crime, and the | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
government must do what it can to help the police reform to tackle new | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
forms of crime, and protecting vulnerable people at risk from these | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
kinds of exploitation. The commitment to transform funding | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
towards specialist capabilities, to tackle cyber crime is also hugely | :51:13. | :51:18. | |
important. If we are to protect individuals and business from the | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
growing threat of online fraud. All the statistics indicate it is a real | :51:22. | :51:34. | |
concern. We will see a new cyber skills Forum open, so we can train | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
up the next-generation of our police force desperately needed. Also the | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
challenge of identifying the best way our police can integrate | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
different communities in East Lancashire and across the country. | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
As we all join together to fight extremism and dissemination against | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
certain groups based on their ethnicity and religion. I recently | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
met with Andy Pratt, who served Lancashire for 28 years as a police | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
officer. He set up the first-ever community cohesion team in the | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
county, since he has retired, working tirelessly on interfaith | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
work building bridges between the Muslim and Christian community. I am | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
delighted he has been selected for the Conservative Party candidate. If | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
we're going to go down campaign for people standing collection, this is | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
about police funding, not about candidates, how good or bad they | :52:29. | :52:36. | |
are. Thank you Mr Speaker, I thank you for that guidance. Thank you. In | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
conclusion, others like to thank my right honourable friend for the way | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
he has worked with myself and other Lancashire MPs on a cross-party | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
basis, particularly on the proposed changes to the police funding | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
formula, which would see a disadvantage for Lancashire Police. | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
Can I welcome the generous settlement before the House, I think | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
it is generous, we have to work with local police forces to ensure police | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
reform across the UK continues, and we continue to drive down all types | :53:07. | :53:17. | |
of crime in this country. I want to make four brief points, firstly | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
about the level of funding. Before the Autumn Statement, the Home | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
Office was asked to model reductions in spending. They were preparing for | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
cuts between 20 and 25%. Labour said they could survive cuts of 10%, but | :53:31. | :53:37. | |
the Chancellor protected police funding. I welcome that protection, | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
as did many police leaders. The most impressive responses from the | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
policing community came from people like Chief Constable Simon Thornton, | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
recognising the need for efficient funding, and the police to reform | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
and adapt to the changing demands on their services. My second point is | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
one about flexibility. Important that the police are flexible, to the | :54:00. | :54:06. | |
demands of their services. The National Audit Office has revealed | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
in one of its studies, that the police do not actually have a | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
sufficient understanding of the levels of the month they face. | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
Important that they understand the demands they face and adapt to face | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
that the mind. I will give way to the honourable member. I think he | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
was wrong and earlier on, Durham is in fact the most inefficient police | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
force in the country. -- most efficient. As the honourable member | :54:33. | :54:39. | |
says quite rightly, Durham is the only Constabulary in the country, | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
which is five outstanding ratings for efficiency from the HMRC | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
inspectors. Despite that, it will actually lose something like ?3 | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
million next year. The honourable member for Pendle said the cash | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
settlement has not been reduced. There are other demands which mean | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
officers will have to be reduced in County Durham. Cutting by 400 in the | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
last ten years. I'm sure the Minister will deal with that in his | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
response. I do not recognise those statistics, I would pay tribute to | :55:13. | :55:15. | |
his chief comfortable for running such a wonderfully efficient force. | :55:16. | :55:17. | |
The point about flexibility. Plainly, plainly is lost on the | :55:18. | :55:29. | |
Labour Party. I went to a recent Westminster Hall debate when a west | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
London MP insists on top down, inflexible model of Ward policing in | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
London, not recognising fact some wards need more policing than | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
others, as we have in kinks to. That's why I endorsed the Home | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
Secretary and Chancellor's decision to be flexible themselves. -- in | :55:51. | :56:01. | |
- increasing the funding for a new drive to coordinate the fight | :56:02. | :56:09. | |
against fraud. That is something we have seen an increase of, | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
particularly on the Internet. By third point about reform, police | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
funding has to go hand-in-hand with reform. Under the Coalition | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
Government, particular Conservative policies, we have seen an increase | :56:23. | :56:30. | |
in democratic control of police. We have seen reforms to the misconduct | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
regime, including recently opening up misconduct hearings to the | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
public. We have seen that creation of the collagen of police and to set | :56:40. | :56:47. | |
guidelines. I occasionally give lectures that. The Home Secretary's | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
police reform agenda continues. Funding to encourage collaboration | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
between forces, not a top-down model like that under the last Labour | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
government. We have seen excellent models of collaboration, like West | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
Murcia and Warwickshire Police. And funding to encourage bluelight | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
collaboration, away to save money but also increase the efficiency and | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
effectiveness of our blue light services. My fourth and final point | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
is about policing in London and in Kingston. We have the second lowest | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
crime rate in London. An excellent borough commander, who leads a | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
fantastic local police. They are part of the fabric of the local | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
community and they do us in Kingston proud. Tomorrow I will be hosting a | :57:36. | :57:40. | |
public meeting with the officers in Surbiton, to talk about the work | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
they do to tackle crime and anti-social behaviour there. In | :57:46. | :57:52. | |
Kingston town centre the Conservative council has made good | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
on our campaign to increase the number of police officers, by using | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
the police act to buy extra police officers and make use of the Merit | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
London's by one and get one free offer. This has had a fantastic | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
impact on the rate of arrests in the town centre. Many of my constituents | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
don't just spend time in Kingston, but into central London, where crime | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
rates are higher and the threat of terrorism is higher. That is why got | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
together with other London MPs, including my neighbour in Richmond | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
Park, with the member of Uxbridge on Ruislip, to speak with the policing | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
minister with the Home Secretary and with the Chancellor, to ensure that | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
police funding in London was protected. I hear the honourable | :58:38. | :58:43. | |
member for Leeds claims it was labour that forced a change in | :58:44. | :58:45. | |
police funding, but that is simply not correct. There are clear calls | :58:46. | :58:54. | |
made on this side of the House and the Chancellor, the Home Secretary | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
and police Minister listened and protected our budget. As a result of | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
that, and as a result of that Madam Deputy Speaker, PCSOs in London are | :59:04. | :59:06. | |
not going to be cut. Authorised firearms officers in London will be | :59:07. | :59:12. | |
increased by considerable numbers. And going forward, we are going to | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
have an increase in funding for counterterrorism and our city grant | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
has been protected. Going back to flexibility, certain areas of crime | :59:23. | :59:28. | |
have increased despite the overall downward trend in the UK and London. | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
But I'm sure the Metropolitan Police, the police in Kingston and | :59:33. | :59:35. | |
the police in the whole of the country will be flexible to the | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
increase in demand of their services. They will meet those | :59:40. | :59:42. | |
challenges. I welcome this statement. I am delighted that | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
funding has been protected in London and delighted that the Government is | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
putting the protection of people at home and abroad fast and I thank the | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
Minister for what he has done for policing in London. | :59:56. | :00:02. | |
Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It is fitting we are having this debate | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
in the same week that the Prime Minister made a speech on his | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
ground-breaking reforms in our prison system. One startling fact in | :00:11. | :00:18. | |
his speech is 70% of prisoners have at least seven previous convictions. | :00:19. | :00:25. | |
So if we can improve those rates, it will have an impact on the resources | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
available to police officers. These reforms, both in terms of the prison | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
system and in terms of the police funding formula are compassion and | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
to be welcomed, because they will also help to prevent crime. My right | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
honourable friend the Minister is to be congratulated. Firstly for acting | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
on the promise of reviewing the police funding formula. That is | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
something that had been promised by others over the years, but never | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
actually done. This minister and the Home Secretary have done that. He is | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
also to be congratulated for protecting the policing budget in | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
the Autumn Statement, and for making real blue right reform possible, | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
enabling the police, ambulance and Fire Service to work together. I | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
would do with this in turn. The police funding formula, Lincolnshire | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
is my police constabulary in my constituency. It is a very, very | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
rural part of the world and it has been particularly badly affected by | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
the old police funding formula, as was referred to by my honourable | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
friend, the member for game Gainsborough. The Chief Constable | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
has been very brave in challenging the funding formula and indeed some | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
of his colleagues, the other chiefs, because not every police chief has | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
made the efficiencies he has made. He wrote an excellent book on it, | :01:51. | :01:58. | |
which has helped me when I have been sitting in the home affairs select | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
committee asking Chief constables various questions. In the home | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
affairs select committee we have seen that some forces have | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
extraordinary generous reserves of savings. I think when the honourable | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
member for Leicester East invited Chief constables and police and | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
crime commission is to give evidence to the committee we heard they had | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
reserves of up to ?60 million in some cases. Since then I have learnt | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
that West Midlands has a reserve of ?153 million. Rather than that money | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
sitting in a bank account, surely we should be spending it wisely, to | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
protect the public. I turned then... I will. I am | :02:40. | :02:50. | |
thankful for her giving way. That money is earmarked for | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
rationalisation of buildings to save money in the medium to longer term | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
and for the recruitment of new officers. Secondly, I know Neil | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
Rhodes, he is a fine police constable. He was right call for a | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
review of the formula. Will the right honourable lady share his | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
dismay and my dismay as a consequence of the shambles in the | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
Home Office before Christmas, we are stuck with the existing arrangement? | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
I thank the honourable member for his intervention. It is certainly | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
true that Chief Constable was very excited at the prospect of the new | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
funding formula and how that may help his constabulary. History... It | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
is as it is, but indeed I have received a letter from the Chief | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
Constable last month saying the constabulary has made further very | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
bold bids for transformational funding, which they are very excited | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
about, in terms of helping with blue light funding. I will come onto that | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
in a moment. The overall police budget, as we have heard, will be | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
protected with figures up to 900 million by 20 19-20. There will be | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
an increase in real terms to 670 million in policing, | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
counterterrorism next year and an increase in transformation funding | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
to help with issues like cybercrime. We have heard, I sit here with three | :04:12. | :04:18. | |
members of the joint committee which has scrutinised the draft of the | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
investigatory powers Bill, which will report. Through the course of | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
our work on that committee we have heard the real changing nature of | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
threats facing our country and policing locally, whether it is | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
counterterrorism or the challenges facing police officers investigating | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
missing persons. At that is for another debate and another time. The | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
final point is about making bluelight collaboration possible. In | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
a village in my constituency the fire officers are trained to step in | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
as ambulance workers, because they will be on the scene before | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
ambulances. That is a great improvement. The more we see of | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
that, the better. I had the pleasure of visiting police stations in Laos | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
and Horncastle before Christmas to thank the officers for their work -- | :05:09. | :05:17. | |
Louth. The police station in Louth fits right next to the police | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
station. There must be room to help services work together, to help | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
protect the public. And finally, I know reference has been made by | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
members of the set, saying that somehow members here do not | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
appreciate the work of the police officers. That is simply wrong. I | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
have had the pleasure, the privilege, of working with excellent | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
police officers and law enforcement officers in my previous career, and | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
indeed I am divided that Lincolnshire constabulary will be | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
hosting its annual awards in March, to celebrate the bravery and the | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
commitment of the officers in our county. I have been invited to it. I | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
sadly probably won't be able to go because I will be here, but I wish | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
them well and I'm sure the House which is eat and every police | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
officer in our country well for the future and for the work they have | :06:11. | :06:11. | |
done already. Alex Chalke. Very kind. Madame Debord is bigger, | :06:12. | :06:24. | |
as the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, the police protect us and the | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
Government has indeed protected the police. In my view this settlement | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
strikes the right balance between ensuring police forces up Rob Lee | :06:34. | :06:41. | |
funded -- properly funded and can make reforms. When I heard the | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
speech from the honourable gentleman it struck me it would be helpful to | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
place some of the context that the context we find ourselves with. Back | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
in 2010, this country was truly staring into the abyss will stop | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
youth unemployment had doubled, Britain was a basket case of Europe. | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
I hear the scoffing from the other side, but the important point is | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
that this: the impact would have been felt on public services, if | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
this government had not brought some degree of order to them. If we can | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
just remember the position back then. People were thinking not just | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
of trimming the police force, but talking about the wholesale meltdown | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
of some of our key public services. That is precisely what has not | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
happened. On the 25th of November, the Chancellor of the Exchequer | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
announced police spending would be protected in real terms over the | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
spending period, when the precept is taken into account. No PCC will face | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
a reduction in cash funding next year and it does mean an increase in | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
cash terms by up to 900 million by 2019-20. It has order been | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
indicated, funding for police counterterrorism will increase in | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
real terms to 670 million by 20 16-17. So from a situation where | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
this country and policing was facing disaster, we find ourselves in a | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
situation where there is a strong funding settlement where our | :08:18. | :08:19. | |
services will be properly funded. Very briefly. | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
You have to sit down when I stand up. LAUGHTER | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
I know the present difficulties between revenue and capital and | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
other concepts. He talks about nobody losing cash, | :08:32. | :08:40. | |
doesn't he realise the likes of Durham, it has to take ?3 million | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
out of its budget this year because of wage increases and other | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
pressures that at the idea of flat cash is not an increase. | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
The really important thing is to take this in context. Back in | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
2010... If I can deal with a point. In 2010 this country was bringing in | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
about ?600 million in tax revenue and spending 750 million. If that | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
had not been addressed this country would be facing meltdown and | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
policing would be facing meltdown. Instead policing is on a sound | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
footing to protect the people of our country. The interesting thing is | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
this, sometimes speeches are as interesting for what what is not | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
said as to what is. When I heard the speech from the honourable member, | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
he didn't mention, even on his own apocalyptic scenario about the kind | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
of cut he would himself have countenanced. Because in fact, at | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
the party conference in Brighton, the honourable member for league | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
declared savings could be found of up to tempt them, which he said | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
would be doable. That is not what is happening from this government. -- | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
up to 10%. I would suggest not only is funding on a stable footing, but | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
capability is being enhanced. Let's look at a moment at how that | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
capability is being enhanced. Specialist capabilities in | :10:05. | :10:06. | |
cybercrime are being improved. I won't take any more interventions. | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
Improvements in firearms capability. Modernisation and reform is taking | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
place. We know that they do remain further efficiencies that can be | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
made and indeed those are taking place. Whether it is in respect of | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
decent funding, improving our capability, this is a settlement | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
which leads to, even in difficult times, protecting police, building | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
capacity, driving reform and delivery for the people of this | :10:34. | :10:34. | |
country. The question is only the order | :10:35. | :10:46. | |
paper. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, | :10:47. | :10:47. | |
"no". Clear the lobby. Border. The question is is on the | :10:48. | :12:47. | |
order paper. As many of that opinion say ayes. To the contrary noes. | :12:48. | :19:07. | |
Order, order. The ayes to the right 310, the noes to the left 212. | :19:08. | :29:13. | |
The ayes to the right, 310. The noes to the left, 212. Of those | :29:14. | :29:26. | |
honourable members representing constituents in England and Wales, | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
the ayes to the right 305, the noes to the left 208. So the ayes have | :29:30. | :29:44. | |
it. The ayes have it. On what -- Dudson Mac. The question relating to | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
the draft immigration and nationality fees order 2016. The | :29:49. | :29:59. | |
ayes worth 313, the noes were 67. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. | :30:00. | :30:10. | |
We come now to the three motions on local government Finance England, | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
which will be debated together. I remind the House that these motions | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
will be subject to double majority voting. If divisions are called on | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
these motions, all members of the House able to vote in the divisions, | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
the motions will be agreed only if of those voting are the majority of | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
all members and a majority of all members representing constituencies | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
in England voting in support of the motion. At the end we will report | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
the results. First of all members, and second for those representing | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
constituencies in England. I called the minister to move the first of | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
the three motions, Mr Greg Clark. Thank you very much Madam Deputy | :30:55. | :31:02. | |
Speaker. I would like to start by thanking all colleagues in this | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
house, council leaders and officials who have contributed to the | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
consultations and I made the provisional statement shortly before | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
Christmas. Nearly 280 groups or individuals contributed to the | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
consultation. All have been carefully considered and sensible | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
suggestions have been incorporated into the final settlement before the | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
House today. I have voice been frank with local councils, that they will | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
need to continue to make savings. Local government accounts for nearly | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
one quarter of public spending. It is inevitable and appropriate | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
council should take their part does not play their part in reducing the | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
national deficit. Council taxpayers are National taxpayers, they are the | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
same people and everyone suffers if we run a permanent, untamed deficit. | :31:46. | :31:53. | |
Councils have accepted their part in this responsibility. During the last | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
parliament all parts of local government delivered the savings | :31:58. | :32:00. | |
that have helped reduce the deficit by half. At the same time, | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
satisfaction with the services provided by local councils has been | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
maintained. A remarkable reflection on the professionalism and | :32:10. | :32:10. | |
resourcefulness of local government. I will give way. Thank you. Will the | :32:11. | :32:17. | |
understand the frustration of my constituents at the settlement for | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
Harrow Council? We are one of the lowest settlements in London on a | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
per capita basis. The council having to make ?80 million worth of cuts | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
over four years, leading to the closure of the popular bridge mental | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
health Day Centre. What I would say to the honourable gentleman is | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
London councils have welcomed many of the changes we made in the | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
settlement, including the provision of a four-year settlement. One of | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
the concerns councils have had for many years is with annual funding | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
they weren't able to plan ahead and reap some of the economies. He will | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
also know that in terms of the response to the provisional | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
settlement, I have made extra resources available to Harrow which | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
I think has gone down well in his borough. I will give way to my | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
vigorous honourable friend. Thank you. Thank you for listening to me | :33:12. | :33:23. | |
and not taking the money out of Blackpool's budget, and urban area | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
facing need. I am grateful for what my honourable friend has said. | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
Blackpool has important pressures that need to be made and he has made | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
representations, as indeed have his Local Authorities. It is true that | :33:40. | :33:47. | |
some transitional relief should, at the expense of places like | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
Blackpool, but I have been able to find a way that we can provide some | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
relief for the years in which the reductions are sharpest without | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
making the situation worse for places like Blackpool, that | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
benefited from the settlement. I will give way to my honourable | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
friend. I am grateful to my right honourable friend. This is a very | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
progressive and good settlement for the long-term future of local | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
government because it is devolution is. In that concept, in that | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
thought, will you recognise and accept it is important not only that | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
he has given transitional relief, which helps out a London boroughs | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
like Bromley, but it is important London boroughs and authorities | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
themselves up themselves by reducing their unit costs, in the way Bromley | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
has, with the lowest in outer London? Absolutely right. I had the | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
pleasure of spending some time with the Cabinet of Bromley Council, one | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
of the most efficient in London and they point the way to how to deliver | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
services valuable to the residents in a cost effective way. I am | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. We face cuts of | :34:58. | :35:08. | |
15-17 of 4.9% compare to the average 2.8%. Despite that, transitional, | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
despite his comments yesterday about looking at the way in which the | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
graphics of particular areas, particularly with larger numbers of | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
older people, Blackpool gets no transitional relief at all. There's | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
any logic or justice in that? Of course there is. The transitional | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
relief is for those authorities that had a sharp reduction in the grant | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
than others. In the case of Blackpool, it had fitted to the tune | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
of ?3 million. My honourable friend was wise enough to recognise that | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
and to recognise the difference is going to make to the people of | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
Blackpool. The honourable gentleman should think and do likewise. | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
One of the most progressive things the Secretary of State has done is | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
given local councils are four-year settlement, so they can view what | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
their settlements will be into the future and not live from day to day, | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
not knowing what their budget settlement would be next year. My | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
honourable friend is right. This is one of the key requests that local | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
government has made of central government for many years now and is | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
constantly finding that request fell on deaf ears. It is something widely | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
welcomed by councils right across the country, of all different party | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
political control, that they will have the chance to look ahead and | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
plan for the future. Let me make a bit of progress and then I will give | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
way to some colleagues. Over the course of this Parliament, | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
as the Institute for Fiscal Studies points out, the required savings, | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
which I make clear councils will need to continue to make, the | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
savings will be less than those required in the previous parliament. | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
The Institute for Fiscal Studies reports the required savings of | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
around 7% in real terms over the next four years is a substantially | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
slower pace in cuts than councils had to deliver between 2009-10 to | :37:05. | :37:13. | |
2015-16 when they were cut by 25% in real terms. I will give way to my | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
honourable friend. I thank my right honourable friend for giving way. I | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
wonder whether he would just confirm that in that process councils are | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
still required to do things in a fundamentally different way, such as | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
setting up trading joint ventures, as one council, they had done on | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
Monday, or looking at uber type services. Yes, council should take | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
the opportunities to be innovative. He and I served on the Bill | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
committee of the localism Bill, which introduced a general power of | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
competence for local councils, precisely so they could take | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
decisions in the interests of their residents and contribute effectively | :37:56. | :37:57. | |
to supply will give way to the honourable lady. Just before the | :37:58. | :38:04. | |
Secretary of State gives way. The Secretary of State has been | :38:05. | :38:06. | |
perfectly polite and courteous in giving way are very many times. This | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
is a short debate. 24 people have indicated to me they would like to | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
make speeches. They intend to sit here all afternoon, awaiting their | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
turn to make speeches. There are many people who are making | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
interventions which the Secretary of State has most courteously dealt | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
with. Those people are taking part in the debate. They must be aware | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
they are taking up the time of other people who will be waiting to speak | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
later in the debate. If you make an intervention in this debate, you | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
must remain, for most of the debate, and certainly be here for the | :38:42. | :38:48. | |
windups. Secretary of State. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Given | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
those on is, I will take the point from the honourable lady. I thank | :38:54. | :39:00. | |
bit Secretary of State for giving way. Will he recognise the problems | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
faced by Liverpool, which bases and 9% cut in funding next year, coming | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
on top of a 58% cut since 2010? I would say to the honourable lady, I | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
have been very clear that all councils need to continue to make | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
savings. The way that we have conducted the settlements, I think | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
she will know, has been fair across the country. The Institute for | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
Fiscal Studies pointed that out. In fact, a council that she knows very | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
well close by to her, Sefton Council, said the announcement in | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
response to the cause of vision, they said the announcement that call | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
spending power will be reduced by only half a percent between | :39:40. | :39:47. | |
2015-2020 is better than we expected last summer. That is from her | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
neighbouring council. I will give way to the honourable gentleman and | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
then make some progress. I thank my honourable friend for making way and | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
welcome the fair share review. Can I say to him, the rural share of -- | :40:00. | :40:06. | |
fair share review, we need to make sure funds keep coming across to not | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
only help with the elderly population, but small schools are | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
rubbish collection, all those things in rural areas which cost so much | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
more to do. We need a fair deal and I look forward to him keeping up his | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
good work. We want to see delivery actually happening. My honourable | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
friend is absolutely right and you can add to those services, | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
transport. That is why think it is overdue that the underlying formula | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
should catch up with what has happened in many of our communities. | :40:38. | :40:44. | |
Let me comment and highlight on four features of the settlement. First | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
ball, for decades councils about to set annual budgets, without the | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
knowledge of what they can expect in resources 12 months hence. That | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
prevents long-term planning and promotes inefficiency, as plans and | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
contracts have to be short-term, missing out on the economies that | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
are possible if you can take a longer view. For the first time in | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
the history of local government, this settlement gives indicative | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
figures for the next four gears available to any council which | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
chooses to and which can show that it can use the certainty to | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
translate itself into efficiency savings. I will give way to my | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
honourable friend. I am grateful to my right honourable friend. There is | :41:26. | :41:32. | |
a deep hole on the island. Can the Minister work with the locals of all | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
parties to ensure that we are finding solutions on these issues. | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
Indeed. I pay tribute to my right honourable friend for the work he | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
does as the island's MP, in bringing all of the leaders and the | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
councillors in the island together, regardless of party political | :41:53. | :41:54. | |
affiliation to make sure the best interest of the island are promoted. | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
I look forward to visiting the Isle of Wight in his company to meet with | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
the councillors and the offices. I will give way to the honourable | :42:04. | :42:04. | |
gentleman. Staffordshire my County at least | :42:05. | :42:16. | |
those make the transition with 5.68 million. Stoke-on-Trent gets | :42:17. | :42:24. | |
nothing. 21.4 million. Read. Could the Secretary of State tell us why | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
the South wins out. Very straightforward, the proportion of | :42:30. | :42:31. | |
transitional relief is in proportion to the reduction of rates of all | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
crime. Staffordshire have less than sorry. Purely mathematical. I would | :42:37. | :42:44. | |
have thought the addition of nearly ?3 million to his budget would be | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
welcomed by the council taxpayers, I know it has been welcomed. I will | :42:49. | :42:57. | |
give way to my friend. I'm grateful to my right honourable friend for | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
giving way, as he knows I welcome this agement wholeheartedly. Denied | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
taking back to what he was saying about certainty, and counter | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
perspective. Could he give more information about providing | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
certainty for town councils they will be exempt from being capped | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
with their precepts, as they are trying to work in greater concert | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
with District Council. That parallel certainty will help to forge those | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
deals. I am grateful for the intervention of my honourable | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
friend. There is a lively debate as to whether the bigger town councils | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
and parish councils should be part of the capping regime. I have | :43:38. | :43:47. | |
resisted during them into that. I would look to parish and town 's | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
councils to exercise economy, and recognise the services they provide | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
a very much valued and paid for by council taxpayers. I will make some | :44:00. | :44:09. | |
progress, as the Madam Deputy Speaker said, if I have time I will | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
take the right honourable gentleman. The second feature of the | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
settlement, we have pirate eyes spending on adult social care, the | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
care we provide to elderly and venerable citizens. Honourable | :44:22. | :44:30. | |
members grown and complain, but at requests of this government, this | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
government has done something the previous government did not do, | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
established funding arrangements; text elderly and vulnerable | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
citizens. In September, in their submission to the spending review, | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
the directors of adult social services, and the local government | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
Association made a submission to the spending review. Adult social care, | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
health and well-being commitments. 2015 spending review submission. | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
These two organisations wrote to me to request an extra ?2.79 billion to | :45:04. | :45:11. | |
be made available by 2020. With the reduction of the 2.2% Schalke | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
precept, and the half million pounds made available to local councils. | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
Three .5 billion will be available for adult social care by 2020. -- | :45:22. | :45:35. | |
3.5 billion. There are parents and grandparents living longer than | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
anyone thought first possible. We need to pay for their care needs. It | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
is no reflection on the efficiency of council if care costs increase. | :45:43. | :45:54. | |
More elderly people are living. A ?23 increase in a band D property | :45:55. | :46:02. | |
would provide better health care and councils are to be transparent about | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
how the money is raised. By the end of this Parliament local government | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
will retain all of the business rates it raises. A huge | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
transformation in a world in which just three years ago, every penny | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
councils collected from local businesses had to be handed over to | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
the Treasury. This means councils were dependent on central government | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
grants. Papastathopoulos Parliament, 80% of council expenditure came in | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
grants from central government. By 2020 all local government spending | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
will be raised by local government. Councils and local people will reap | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
the benefits of providing economic growth, just as the government and | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
country benefit from the rising prosperity these policies foster. | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
With services financed locally, councils are more accountable to | :46:52. | :46:54. | |
their electorates, rather than ministers in Whitehall. I say this | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
is as it should be. I will give way to the honourable lady. I'm sorry, | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
but the Secretary of State is being disingenuous. He knows that the | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
whole local government finance system set up under the last | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
government's local finance act takes no account of need. The social care | :47:15. | :47:20. | |
precept will raise the most money in those areas which have the highest | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
council tax base. Not in the areas where there is the greatest need, | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
which tend to have the lowest council tax base. The honourable | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
lady makes two interesting points. I agree it is too long since the | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
underlying assessment of needs is updated. Over ten years. That is why | :47:38. | :47:44. | |
I have proposed to go back to the drawing board and look at the needs | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
and the resources available to each county. On the second aspect of the | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
point, of course she is right, I have recognised the effective two | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
percent precept is different in different parts of the country. That | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
is why the better care fund allocation has been done on a | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
different basis, precisely to take into account that. I would have | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
thought she would welcome that. I will give way briefly to my | :48:12. | :48:14. | |
honourable friend, and make some progress. I wonder if he recognises | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
those councils in the future who are progressive, support business, | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
provide housing for constituents will get more generous incomes than | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
those who don't support business coming into the area. My honourable | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
friend is right, that is a better way for councils to be facing. Bring | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
in successful businesses into their area, benefit from that, rather than | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
passing the whole of the benefits of that up to the Exchequer. I spoke a | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
few moments ago about the increasing elderly population. As I was saying | :48:50. | :48:55. | |
to the honourable lady, a decade has passed, seeing a significant | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
demographic change, without the need based formula which determines how | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
much of world -- well-run council would need to deliver those changes. | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
They need to be patient. I need to make some process. This point was | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
made repeatedly during the consultation with councils across | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
the country, of all political leaderships. That is why I will | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
conduct a fundamental review of the need based formula, to govern the | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
changes I have described, to 100% business rates retention. It is not | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
only the changing needs of different areas that need to be recognised. | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
Also the differing costs of providing services to residents, | :49:39. | :49:41. | |
depending on the area Council serves. As my honourable friend were | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
saying, this year the rural services delivery grant, recognising the | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
differing costs encountered by rival services in delivering services, | :49:53. | :49:58. | |
brings ?15 million into council services. This increases that crime | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
fivefold, to 18.5 million. It ensures there is no deterioration in | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
funding to run areas, compared to urban areas, in the statutory | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
settlement. I'll give way to the right honourable gentleman. However | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
elegant strategies. We must take a moment to look at the results will | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
stop asking insurer has been boosted by 2016-17, by 11.4% what it gets | :50:23. | :50:29. | |
from this government. Birmingham has been battered, losing 10%. I welcome | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
the ship to a needs -based formula, but he must see the massive | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
discrepancies emerging, when great cities like Birmingham are being | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
battered to bits. The honourable gentleman is an intelligent man, if | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
he goes away and studies the changes in the formula, welcomed when I met | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
with the former leader of his city's board. He recognised as the | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
Institute for Fiscal Studies has done, an approach which looks at the | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
whole of the resources available to local councils is a fair way to | :51:04. | :51:11. | |
proceed. His city of Birmingham, on that basis, which I have enormous | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
ambition and regard. It has benefited very significantly from | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
that. The transitional grant is for places that did not benefit from the | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
changes. I will give way to my honourable friend. Grateful to my | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
right honourable friend. He has a soft and genuine manner throughout | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
which I admire. I am furious by the interventions of the party opposite, | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
who were in power, and skewed the whole system. They could not find a | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
way, Madam Deputy Speaker, putting the money into labour areas without | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
coming up for a false. They put density into the formula at four | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
times the waiting for sparsity. There was no evidence for the need. | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
They skew the system, it needs to be put right. My honourable friend is a | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
very passionate advocate. He makes the case very well. All members | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
across the House would recognise after ten years it is appropriate to | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
look at the costs of providing services in different areas, and the | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
changed demographic pressures that have occurred. I will give way for | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
the last time to the honourable lady. I thank my right honourable | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
friend. Isn't it true that the long standing and fairness has been a | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
penalty against rural areas, in Devon where we have a low-wage | :52:34. | :52:36. | |
economy, and the highest council taxes. This address is that, without | :52:37. | :52:44. | |
penalising areas like Torbay. I would like to congratulate my right | :52:45. | :52:47. | |
honourable friend. I'm grateful to my honourable friend. To every local | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
government financial settlement, there is a Owsley needs to be struck | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
between the different needs in areas in the country. The people who have | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
reflected on the settlement I have proposed, including the local | :53:04. | :53:06. | |
government Association, including the Succi for fiscal studies, they | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
have recognised I have been fair -- including the Institute for Fiscal | :53:15. | :53:16. | |
Studies, they have recognised I have been fair, recognising higher costs. | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
Torbay has benefited from the change in the four wheeler. I have | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
committed to make sure the new system for 100% business rates | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
retention is funded on excepted analysis of the cost different | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
authorities face. I will not give away. I will give way to the | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
chairman of selecting Mitty in a few moments. Other important provisions | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
of this settlement are the continuation of the new homes bonus. | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
The existing scheme had not been guaranteed to continue through the | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
period. It is been a valuable source of funding for councils, and those | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
for the much-needed house-building. I'm happy the scheme will continue | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
subject of the changes I am proposing. It will provide | :54:03. | :54:04. | |
flexibility to councils with a record of keeping costs low, with a | :54:05. | :54:12. | |
?5 a year council tax increase without the costs of a referendum. | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
And subjecting well-run planning departments to increase fees to the | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
rate of inflation, as long as the income is used to decrease the cross | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
subsidy of the planning function by other council tax payers. Possibly | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
the settlement makes clear, as revenue support grant decline, no | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
council will have to make a contribution to other councils in | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
2017, 18, or 19. Something in the provisional settlement was | :54:39. | :54:40. | |
considered unfair by particular respondents. Let me say a few words | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
about the reductions in revenue support grant is in the spending | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
review period. We are moving from one world to another, a world in | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
which the government grant accounted for 80% of local government | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
expenditure in 2010. Moving to a world during this period, by 2020, | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
only 5% of local government spending power will come from the revenue | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
support grant. In the same period, with the limitations of 100% | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
business they retention, proportional spending power that | :55:15. | :55:16. | |
comes from local resources will grow. The reason for this change is | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
not just financial, a council that is almost entirely dependent on | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
central government will consciously or unconsciously end up looking to | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
central government to be told what to do. Of course, from time | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
immemorial, the government has attached strings to money gives out. | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
My excellent predecessor, the right honourable member for Brentwood, | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
abolished 7000 targets, measurements and indicators, that every council | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
in the country had to subsidy eight -- subsidy eight -- subjugate itself | :55:51. | :55:59. | |
to. That is in no way for the crowned cities and districts of this | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
country to be governed. Places with a history as long as our country | :56:03. | :56:08. | |
itself should not be reduced to meekly complying with the | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
presumptuous demands of Whitehall. That is why you shift to funding | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
that comes from the people, businesses that councils represent | :56:17. | :56:19. | |
and serve, rather than all eyes been fixed on London is so vital. Our | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
councils have been the strongest campaigners for this long overdue | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
change. In a period of consultation which followed the provisional | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
settlement, councils made the compelling case that the transition | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
to this new world needs to be sensibly managed. In particular the | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
first two years of the settlement would pose challenges. I agree with | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
those views, which is why I have ensured the final settlement will | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
include a transition fund to cover 2016, 2017, and 2018, worth ?150 a | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
year -- ?150 million a year. On the point he was making about | :56:57. | :57:05. | |
strings attached by government on funding, does he not think that we | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
might be moving to a world that is more democratically responsive to | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
the electorate, but businesses will now feel they are rather more | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
important and have a starring role? It was a ludicrous situation in | :57:21. | :57:27. | |
which local councils collected levies and sent them, so businesses | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
did not feel they had the same connection with the council that | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
taxpayers did. It is high time they should be rewarded and backed for | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
that. That is what these reforms do. Thank you for giving way. As he | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
knows, I agree with the proposition is important councils are able to | :57:50. | :57:52. | |
raise more of their own finance locally. It is not if it should be | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
done but how it should be done. A crucial element of that will be the | :57:57. | :58:04. | |
needs assessment review. How does the Secretary of State intend to go | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
about that? Will he fully involve the local government Association or | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
will he consider an independent element, to make sure it is not seen | :58:13. | :58:21. | |
as a stitch up? I think the honourable gentleman has known me | :58:22. | :58:24. | |
long enough to know when I approached something I do it | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
seriously, rigorously and take views from everyone who has a sensible | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
view to contribute. I will certainly do that from local governments of | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
all types. IOP and members of his select committee will contribute. As | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
well as honourable members on both sides of this house, who have a | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
great deal of experience and knowledge of the needs of their | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
constituents. I will give way in a moment. No council under the | :58:50. | :58:51. | |
proposed settlement will receive less than that was stated in the | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
provisional settlement figures, but the transition fund will ease the | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
transition from a system based on central government grants to one in | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
which it is local sources that determine a council's reckoning. The | :59:05. | :59:08. | |
funds will be applied in direct proportion to the difference that | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
would have been experienced. It is a straightforward as that. What ever | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
the conspiracy theories of the party opposite suggest. It was a proposal | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
made by some Labour led authorities, including Lancashire. The transition | :59:23. | :59:28. | |
fund will ease the pace of reductions in the first wing years | :59:29. | :59:31. | |
of the spending review period, after which income from other sources will | :59:32. | :59:38. | |
grow. The settlement is always important, it is the statutory act | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
that allows councils to set their legal budgets for the year ahead the | :59:43. | :59:45. | |
budgets that deliver the services are all of our constituents and all | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
of us reliable stock this year the settlement contains some | :59:50. | :59:52. | |
particularly important changes, indicative budgets that the entire | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
spending review period, to make longer term planning a reality. A | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
big increase in the funding for adult social care, one of the most | :00:01. | :00:03. | |
important of our council's response abilities. Action to help rural | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
areas along with a commitment all councils that the move to 100% | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
business rate retention will be accompanied by a review of the needs | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
-based formula. Transition funding secured to smooth the long overdue | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
journey from over centralised state to a future where all money that is | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
spent locally is generated locally. Multi-year budgets delivered, social | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
care prioritise, rural needs acknowledge, a fair funding review | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
launched and evolution of funding advanced. Deputy Speaker, I give | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
this statement to the House. As on the order paper, before I called the | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
honourable gentleman for the opposition. It will be obvious to | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
the House that a great number of people wish to speak and we have | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
limited time, so there will be a limit of five minutes on backbench | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
speeches, but not on Mr Steve Reed. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
will do my best to keep it as brief as I can. | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
It's always a pleasure to listen to the Secretary of State's engaging | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
manner, but what is not so pleasant is listening to what he has to say. | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
The Secretary of State repeated his claims this afternoon to a protected | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
funding for councils over the next four years, but really there can't | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
be anyone left who believes that any more. Not even his own MPs, judging | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
from what we have heard from them over recent weeks. And no wonder, | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
because the settlement from the assessment takes away ?1 in every ?3 | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
given to councils for funding core services. That is on top of cuts in | :01:43. | :01:51. | |
excess of 40% that have already been imposed. On many councils it is in | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
excess of 50% that have already been imposed. I will give way. I have | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
tried to intervene on the Secretary of State. I can't believe what he | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
said about social care, because it is just wrong. There is not an | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
injection of cash into social care. There is only at the maximum ?400 | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
million this year. The funding is uncertain, risky and back loaded and | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
the LGA has asked him if he will inject ?700 million in the next two | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
years because they are so concerned. There was an even funding for their | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
own policy of the national living wage increases. So let's not have | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
this thing about social care. I am grateful to my honourable | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
friend, she is absolutely right and I will pick up on those points later | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
in my own contribution. Returning to the point about the settlement | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
funding assessment, because increases elsewhere do not plug the | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
gap of those cuts, it will result in cuts to front line services. Cuts to | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
youth services, fixing potholes, fixing the streets, emptying the | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
bins, looking after Parks, keeping the street lights on at night, | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
libraries, museums, rural bus services. He hasn't protected any of | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
these. He is sharp and the knife. I will give way. Councils like | :03:15. | :03:23. | |
Coventry, over the 10-year period will lose 60% of their income, in | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
terms of grants, 80 million. That is an unnecessary hardship in Coventry. | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
When the Secretary of State talks about business rates, it was the | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
previous Conservative government that changed business rates and more | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
importantly he is passing the buck, blaming police and social care on | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
Local Authorities on three or four years down the line he will come in | :03:48. | :03:55. | |
and cap it. Devolving the blame for their cuts as part of what the | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
Government are up to with this settlement. As my honourable friend | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
mentioned earlier, some funding for social care has been handed over to | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
councils. That certainly sounds welcome, but according to the Tory | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
lead local government Association, they have handed over ?1 billion | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
funding black coal. The Government has told councils to impose a 2% | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
council tax rise every year for four years, to plug that gap. But even | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
that doesn't raise anywhere near enough to pay for their care that | :04:25. | :04:32. | |
older people need. And it raises the least money in the poorest areas, | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
that need the funding modes. The Government has cut the funding then | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
handed it over to councils to take the blame. I give way to my | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
honourable friend. Of course, the point he makes is exactly the | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
problem is that ten side Boro find themselves in. They have a ?16 | :04:52. | :04:58. | |
million social care deficit, raising 2% on the council tax, based on 100% | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
collection, which isn't going to happen, will bring into Thamesside | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
?1.4 million. These sums don't add up. | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
My honourable friend making a very graphic illustration of the point I | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
was making. What all of this means, is denying vulnerable, older and | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
disabled people the home care that they need. It means turning away | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
freight will older people who can't clean their own homes or cook their | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
own food. It means closing down daycare centres. It means cutting | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
back on home care visits. It means leaving people stuck in hospital | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
beds, because they have no support to go to at home. With a knock-on | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
effectively than in hospital waiting times for other patients. I will | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
give way. I am grateful to my honourable | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
friend for giving way. Doesn't he think it is rather bizarre that the | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
Secretary of State should be trumpeting his reviews for the | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
future for elderly people in places like Blackpool where we have a | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
larger than average number of older and disabled people but he's | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
prepared to identify the savage cuts that we are having in adult social | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
care in Blackpool, which is leading exactly to the sort of situations he | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
is describing. I think what is really worrying is the Secretary of | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
State doesn't really seem to understand what is going on in | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
councils and public services across the country. But even Tory MPs were | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
terrified of what voters would make of all of this. They threatened to | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
vote it down. So on Monday of this week the Secretary of State came to | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
the chamber with a fix to head off the rebellion. He announced he had | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
found ?300 million down the back of so far. He wouldn't tell us where it | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
had come from. Denny handed nearly all of it to the wealthiest Tory | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
councils as a sweetener, just weeks before the council elections. -- | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
then he handled it. 85% of that money goes to Tory run areas and 5%, | :06:56. | :07:03. | |
barely 5%, to Labour run areas, despite the fact that those Labour | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
areas have suffered far bigger cut since 2010. Whatever happened to one | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
nation Tories? What about the Northern Powerhouse? If the word | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
gerrymander didn't already exist we would have to invent it to describe | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
a fix like this. I am grateful to the Shadow Minister for giving way. | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
He is giving a powerful speech, but I think it is factually incorrect. | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
As he will know, rural areas tend to have the older as populations and | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
yet when this Prime Minister came to power there was a 50% premium going | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
to urban councils with much younger populations, whatever the future | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
might hold for them, they were an old then, they didn't have the need, | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
rural areas did on his party did nothing for justice. | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
What we need is a funding formula based on need. These people have had | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
six years to give us that and they clearly haven't done it. I give way. | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
I am grateful to the honourable gentleman for giving way. Birmingham | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
has been hit by the biggest cuts, half ?1 billion,. The city put a | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
fair case forward, how can it be right that Birmingham got not 1p in | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
transitional funding, but sorry got 12 million and Cheshire East, the | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
Chancellor of the Exchequer's constituency, got 3 million. It is | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
simply not fair. I think the honourable gentleman | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
makes an important point. But sorry got more than 12 million, -- Surrey. | :08:30. | :08:41. | |
Drain for most of any council, next door to where The Right Honourable | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
gentleman... Gets the most. It gets the most, with ?24 million. | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
Hampshire, 19 million, Hertfordshire 14 million. And the Prime Minister's | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
campaigning mother, admirable woman that she is, will be very pleased to | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
see that Oxfordshire gets ?9 million. Now, I'm not criticising | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
what those councils are getting. They didn't deserve the scale of the | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
cuts this government had lined up for them, but then neither did | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
Middlesbrough, Knowsley, Hull, Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, | :09:22. | :09:23. | |
Darlington or all the other board a private areas that has suffered far | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
deeper cuts in the last six years but been offered absolutely no help | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
whatsoever. I give way. I am grateful to the honourable | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
gentleman. If he is going to be a local government minister aspiring | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
to be a government minister, a bit of geography might help. I would | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
bring him to Tunbridge Wells and show him that place. I'm sure he is | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
familiar with Durham county council. In a submission to the consultation | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
they said, in our view, no authority can now claim that this approach is | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
unfair. Does he agree with that? I spoke to at least 20 or 30 council | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
leaders over the weekend that the Labour Party conference and not a | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
single one of them thought the approach the honourable gentleman is | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
taking is fair. If you speak to leaders of Tory councils, I'm afraid | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
they agree with me and not with the honourable gentleman. I will give | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
way. I am very grateful to my honourable | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
friend for giving way. I have absolutely no idea what the | :10:31. | :10:32. | |
Secretary of State is saying or where he got it from because the | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
headlines in our local paper say funding settlement for Durham | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
slammed as unfair by leaders of the council. LAUGHTER | :10:41. | :10:57. | |
The honourable gentleman has to give way to the Secretary of State. The | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
way this money has been distributed is desperately unfair. The | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
honourable lady asked 3M is a reasonable question. The quote I've | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
taken comes from Durham County Council's response to the 20 16th | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
local finance settlement consultation. The new approach is | :11:17. | :11:24. | |
fair and should not be reversed. That is a misinterpretation of what | :11:25. | :11:32. | |
label council leaders are saying. The truth of it is, however hard, | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
and however much they think this pre-council election sweetener will | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
work, the rural services network Highclere this political one will | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
not change the dire financial crisis facing even rural councils over the | :11:50. | :11:59. | |
next four years. Has the Secretary of State had any indications from | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
metropolitan councils whether they believe it is fair? Only three | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
metropolitan councils will get funding, two those happened to be | :12:12. | :12:21. | |
two conservative districts. I was speaking over the weekend with the | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
leader of the city, Newcastle upon Tyne, the Debaty layer of Liverpool | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
and the leader of Leeds City Council, all of those believed what | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
the gap that is doing is devastating local services. I'm going to make | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
some progress, I am not going to give way again. I'm going to | :12:41. | :12:50. | |
continue. Tory MPs, there are Tory MPs representing areas that get | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
nothing out of this additional amount of money. Areas like Stockton | :12:54. | :13:01. | |
on Tees, Nuneaton, for instance. They need to ask themselves what | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
their voters will think of MPs who vote for deep cuts in council tax | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
rises for their own areas, but throw millions are wealthier areas like | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
Tunbridge Wells. I have let the Secretary of State coming twice, I | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
am going to continue. -- come in. I'm going to turn to council tax. On | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
Monday the Secretary of State to 90 had risen to councils telling them | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
to put up council tax. Indeed, it was not physically to stating | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
written the letter, it was his Minister of State. The honourable | :13:40. | :13:48. | |
member for Nuneaton. Order, order? The House is making far too much | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
noise. Both the honourable gentlemans have important things to | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
say. Let them fight it out, don't make so much noise. Barracking is | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
not going to stop me saying the things in this chamber that need to | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
be said. I have a copy of the letter from the Minister of State, the | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
honourable member for Nuneaton, sent to councils with the provisional | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
settlement. The spreadsheets it links to were sent to every town | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
Hall, and they include figures with the garment's expectation that | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
councils will put council tax up by 1.57% every year for four years. On | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
top of that, in posing a further two percent rise to help plug the gap | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
from the government's failure to properly fund social care. 3.75% a | :14:38. | :14:49. | |
year for every year for four years. It is a council tax hike of well | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
over 20%. Costing the average band De council taxpayer around three | :14:55. | :15:02. | |
more a year. If you let me make this point I will give way. It is very | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
hard indeed to square that massive Tory tax hike with a Tory manifesto | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
pledge to keep council tax as low as possible. They are breaking their | :15:13. | :15:20. | |
promises, hiking council tax up. Thank my honourable friend, he is | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
making the very important point about council tax. During the | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
statement earlier in the week, the Secretary of State failed to | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
understand different councils have different council tax bases. He told | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
me to go away and speak to Trafford, to see how they are managing their | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
affairs. Can I tell him there is a 27.4% difference in council tax base | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
between tame side and Trafford. Isn't that inherent in the | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
unfairness in? It is one of the many ways in which this settlement is | :15:56. | :16:04. | |
deeply unfair. I thank my honourable friend, regarding the transitional | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
health, the situation is worse than he described. In | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
Newcastle-under-Lyme, Stoke-on-Trent, in already well | :16:16. | :16:17. | |
rewarded Conservative counties in the South, conservative districts | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
will be benefiting as well. Sense organs, Sevenoaks, Surrey Heath, | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
does my honourable friend think that is right and fair? 85% of Tory | :16:28. | :16:34. | |
councils, 5% of Labour councils. We can all see what they are up to. | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
Everybody's listening to the debate can see what they're up to. Turning | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
back to the council tax rises they are imposing over the next five | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
years. What do people get for this extra money the Tories are taking | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
off them? Do their streets get swept more often, or their bins emptied | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
more regularly, or their libraries save? Older people looked after | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
properly? It does not. The government cut council funding, the | :17:03. | :17:09. | |
extra money they will take people does not make up for what the | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
Chancellor has cut. Council taxpayers will pay more, get less, | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
Tory value for money. Tax hikes and service cuts. Picking people's | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
pockets while damaging the quality-of-life in every community | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
up and down the country. That Madam Deputy Speaker, that is the story of | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
this funding settlement. Why every member of this House should vote | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
against it this evening. 20% council tax hike designed in Downing Street. | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
Services cut to the bone. ?300 million handed to wealthier areas, | :17:45. | :17:51. | |
in a desperate bid to buy off a Tory rebellion on their own backbenches. | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
Pay more, but get less from these tax hiking, pledge breaking, | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
self-serving Tories. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It costs more | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
to deliver public services on an island with no link to the mainland. | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
For instance, we cannot get help from the mainland Fire Services, in | :18:17. | :18:24. | |
the event of major emergencies in less than an hour. Capabilities must | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
be maintained to a higher level to maintain the safety of islanders and | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
their visitors. One example of the extra costs. There are many others | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
which have never been properly recognised in successive local | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
government funding formulas. Back in 2002, the Isle of Wight was set to | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
lose the additional costs allowance. The islanders were with much more | :18:49. | :18:57. | |
affluent Hampshire. The Labour government decided to change the | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
rules, resulting in the island to be too small to qualify on its own. The | :19:02. | :19:10. | |
formula Mac OS the Liberal council and I had to explain why the council | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
could not manage without it. A letter review of a major study of | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
local government finance, published in 1996, Professor Elliott | :19:20. | :19:28. | |
recommending further research was needed to disparities in costs of | :19:29. | :19:36. | |
two councils, the Isle of Wight and the Isle of silly. The research was | :19:37. | :19:45. | |
not carried out. The Minister for regions eventually agreed that we | :19:46. | :19:53. | |
would continue to receive the ACA. It did not recognise the extra cost | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
of delivering services on the island. Nevertheless we will | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
continue to receive the 3 million or so a year. Over the years the method | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
of funding local government has changed. The benefit of the island | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
getting the ACA remained buried in the unfathomable formula that made | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
up the annual settlement will stop although I'm told the value | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
decreases over the years. When the move away from the government grant, | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
to local funding was announced. It became clear this would make the | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
Isle of Wight Council difficult, even more difficult, even more | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
severe. They could not find a way to carry on beyond this year. For the | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
first time in many years, the Isle of Wight Council asked me to assist | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
them to achieve a number of specific, sensible proposals that | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
would help them to change. Madam Deputy Speaker, the announcement | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
made on Monday did not help the island, because quite simply our | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
issues are unique. Something that the Minister has recognised, even | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
the Prime Minister has recognised. We do not qualify for transitional | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
help, because the settlement based on the existing formula did not | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
disadvantage us. It was the formula itself that is advantage does. We do | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
not qualify for the rural spots to grind, because you cannot live very | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
far from a town on an island only 23 miles by 13. With the announcement | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
there was to be a fair funding review, I relied that my honourable | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
friend and my right honourable friend relies there were some | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
problems unresolved, even by the revised settlement. If I can get the | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
real costs of delivering services on an island recognised, we will find a | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
long-term solution to a very long-term problem. We still have the | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
problem of getting to the review. The future of the Isle of Wight | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
Council beyond this year was not secure. Money is in short supply. | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
When there is not so much to go around, it is then that resources | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
must be shared more fully. I am very grateful for the discussions I've | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
with my right honourable friend, the Secretary of State, about this | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
problem. I thank him very much for his offer to visit the island and | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
find the necessary flexibility is for the Council to find a way | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
through the challenges until a fair funding settlement can be put in | :22:31. | :22:40. | |
place. I will be honest, I have decided against the settlement, but | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
based on our discussions, I will be supporting the government this year. | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
I trust them to deliver on those proposals over the coming months. I | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
must say, I'm very proud it is a Conservative government doing what | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
was not done for the past ten years, and I'm looking forward to working | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
with the government and on a cross-party basis on the island for | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
the benefit of the Isle of Wight and all the islanders. To try and look | :23:08. | :23:16. | |
at the positive elements first. I want to be fair and evenhanded in | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
these matters. First of all we ought to welcome the settlement on offer, | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
something that local government has been asking for some time. We're not | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
quite sure what the efficiency plans have to be, and what local councils | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
have to do to achieve it, but it seems a good starting point. I | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
welcome the money for social care as well. I have some questions as to | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
how it will work, and I have a correspondence with the Secretary of | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
State and the local government Association, who clearly asked for | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
more money than they got in traditional spending, which was not | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
recognised. I welcome the fact that local councils will be able to raise | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
more money through council tax, it is right in principle that more | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
local services are paid for by local taxes, something I believe in is a | :24:11. | :24:19. | |
local list. The question, the better care of back-end loaded, pressures | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
and end as well. The Secretary of State mentioned in his reply, the | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
statement early on, the issue of the two percent increase in council tax | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
raising more money in richer areas, he said it would be addressed by how | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
the better care fund would be distributed. Philippe at something | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
in the library of the House, explaining how that will be done. On | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
that very point, it is the key issue talking about. For two years there | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
is hardly anything from the better care fund. ?400 million this year | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
maximum, nothing from the better care fund, 100 million. They have | :25:02. | :25:08. | |
asked for ?700 to be released to cover that was the funding gap is | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
increased by ?70 million a year. I thank my honourable friend for that. | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
The next point and intimate, despite looking at how the better care fund | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
is distributed, more of that money could be brought forward, to at | :25:23. | :25:29. | |
least 2017, 18, for the next financial year. It is the weight is | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
back-end loaded, which is real problem. | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
The local government Association has drawn my attention to the fact that | :25:39. | :25:46. | |
council tax is due to rise by 7.8%. Can they describe how they have done | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
that calculation over the spending period? It seems a very big increase | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
indeed, the number of properties from which council tax will be | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
raised from. And finally, to what extends have the Government taken | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
the accountability of clinical commissioning groups to help local | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
governments with their social care spending. In Sheffield they have | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
indicated they are now facing a substantial reduction in their | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
funding next year. This year they are helping the council by ?9 | :26:18. | :26:25. | |
million transfer funding. With that money is removed, any money from the | :26:26. | :26:33. | |
better care fund won't substitute it. That is the cross departmental | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
work that needs addressing. Can I say to the Secretary of State some | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
of the issues that are causing concern. The cuts that are going to | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
be made, and there are going to be cuts as a result of this settlement, | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
although some people will argue they are less severe than the previous, | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
they come on top of the once previously made. In the last | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
government when the majority of the cuts were on the metropolitan areas, | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
where the greatest needs and greatest problems well, we never | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
once had mention of a transitional arrangement. Never once transitional | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
extra help to help councils in that situation. It has only come about | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
now because the Government has developed this core spending power, | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
which includes council tax. Council tax is raised by the Richard | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
councils, therefore they are the ones who have suffered a bigger | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
reduction as a result of the initial spending announcement and now there | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
is a transitional funding arrangement in place for them. I | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
think his memory is letting him down. He will remember in the last | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
parliament there was a series of tariffs and top ups, to stop the | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
bigger cuts in authorities. That was top sliced from the settlement. What | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
I have been able to do, recommended by many authorities, including | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
Labour authorities, is not to do the same as Abba bring you money in from | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
outside the settlement. I think last time there was a series of ceilings | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
and safety nets, traditional in the way government finance operates. I | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
never remember a settlement coming back to the House after the initial | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
settlement, finding extra money in this way, doubt Labour councils, | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
receiving major cuts in metropolitan areas. I also want to ask the | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
Secretary of State, when this funding comes to an end after the | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
first Rennes years, what happens? Will the money be found from | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
somewhere else or will it be absorbed into this new review of | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
needs? He announced he was going to effectively end the arrangement | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
where there was going to be negative are SG towards the end of the | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
settlement, how is that money going to be found? The removal of RSG? | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
Which councils are going to pay for that all will money be found again | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
from outside? I think it would be very helpful if that was explained. | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
The way in which the needs assessment review is carried out is | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
absolutely crucial. I will ask the Secretary of State, he has promised | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
to involve the select committee, the local government Association, would | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
he consider some independent element in this? Maybe Nish on all -- | :29:07. | :29:17. | |
initial stages done by an independent party? And how can we | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
assess this process when we don't know the other grants. When will the | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
public health grant be announced so they will know what they can spend | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
there? Returning to my own authority of Sheffield, looking at what is | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
happening there. 4.3% cut in spending power, bigger than the | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
national average of 2.8. A cut in RSG. The reality is the Sheffield | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
another ?50 million of cuts in their services. Cuts in RSG, with extra | :29:47. | :29:53. | |
spending needs coming on stream means a ?50 million cut in services. | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
It is a very challenging settlement, even for an official and counsellor | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
at Sheffield. We should be proud of local government, with the way it | :30:05. | :30:11. | |
has dealt with challenging spending cuts, better than central | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
government, but these cuts they are now facing are on top of the cuts | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
they have already had. They are going to meet more library closures, | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
worsened services in a whole number of aspects. As chairman of the | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
select committee a comeback to something positive. I want the | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
committee to work with this Secretary of State so that when the | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
new funding arrangements come into place at the end of this Parliament | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
that we work closely together to make sure the arrangement is put in | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
place in the best place possible. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Like | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
many members of this house I first cut my teeth in politics in local | :30:52. | :30:58. | |
government. I was elected in 2009. It is partly because of that that I | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
simply don't recognise the rhetoric we continue get from the party upset | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
that somehow this government is seeking to undermine or seeking to | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
destroy local government. That doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It is | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
this government delivering the changes to local government that | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
they have been asking for for many years. At the heart of that is | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
devolution. Devolving power to cities and regions up and down the | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
country. We see that in Cornwall. I will make a bit of progress but give | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
way in a moment. In Cornwall we are delivering an historic devolution | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
deal for Cornwall, the first rural area to get a devolution deal for | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
supper people of Cornwall have been asking for this for many years. It | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
is this government that is delivering this. So it doesn't bear | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
scrutiny that somehow we don't believe in local government as the | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
party upset would have people believe. Why would we be giving more | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
powers to local government, if we didn't believe in them and trust | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
them to deliver the services question what I will give way. Thank | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
you for giving way. I don't and anyone on this side is saying that, | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
but it is surprising if you take the example of Greater Manchester, only | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
one council, Trafford, is benefiting from the transitional funds. Tory | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
Trafford. I was a councillor in Trafford. I can say that the council | :32:24. | :32:33. | |
leader, Sean, who the Secretary of State has referred to twice this | :32:34. | :32:40. | |
week as Stephen. It is hardly helping the devolution plans to pick | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
out one authority and give them such large funds. Before the honourable | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
gentleman answers the intervention, it is far too long. We have hardly | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
any time. If honourable members make long interventions they are stopping | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
their colleagues from speaking. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
thank the honourable lady for allowing the intervention. I will | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
give way. My honourable friend giving way. I don't know why the | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
honourable lady is confused. I know Sean very well, I have never been in | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
any doubt as to his name. Thank you very much. I will come on | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
to address the point of funding now. I am happy to place on record that | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
as of Monday morning I would have been one of the members on this side | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
of the House who this evening was prepared to walk through the no | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
lobby and vote against the Government. That was quite simply | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
because the settlement that was proposed was unfair to rural areas. | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
It widened the gap on the Government's funding between rural | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
and urban areas. As someone who campaigned in the election | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
passionately that I would stand up for Cornwall as a rural area and | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
seek a fairer funding deal for Cornwall, I was not prepared to | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
support what was proposed by way of the settlement. This is despite the | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
fact that we all know it is well established that rural areas for | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
many years, for decades in fact, have had the raw end of the deal | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
from central government. This is despite the fact that we know that | :34:10. | :34:17. | |
our rural areas have some of the highest areas of deprivation in the | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
country. An ageing population and an increased pressure that puts on the | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
delivery of services, the increased demand it creates and the additional | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
challenge on cost of delivering those services in a rural setting. | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
Yet places such as Cornwall have had to accept lower levels of funding, | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
not just for our local government but for things like our schools and | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
police funding for many, many years. I am proud it is this government, | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
under the leadership of my right honourable friend the Prime | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
Minister, that has started to address that issue after too long. | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
That we have started to see extra money put into our schools, Andrew | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
Durutalo this is delivering plan, to close the gap in Local Authority | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
funding. Therefore it was to my disappointment, when I looked at | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
what was being proposed, that it would have widened the gap and | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
started to undo much of the good work the Government has already | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
begun. I could not have supported a financial settlement that was going | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
to make an unfair system even more unfair to rural areas. | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
If I had gone through the no lobby tonight, it would have been my first | :35:26. | :35:33. | |
rebellion against the Government. And as someone who does have a | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
slightly inherent rebellious streak in my nature, I have to say I am | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
slightly disappointed that my rebellion will have to wait for | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
another occasion, because I am delighted to say that the Secretary | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
of State has listened to the many, many voices from across the House, | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
from rural areas who highlighted the fact that what was being proposed | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
was simply unacceptable to rural areas. I want to place on record my | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
thanks to him for the way he has conducted this consultation that he | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
met with me and my Cornish colleagues and listen to our | :36:12. | :36:14. | |
concerns. I'm not sure I'm prepared to go as far as the honourable | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
member for Dorset North, who offered a wet kiss, but I want to place on | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
record my very great gratitude for the way he has listened to our | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
concerns and come forward with proposals to address those concerns. | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
I thank the honourable gentleman for giving way. The vast majority of | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
north-east councils, like Northumberland, will get nothing | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
from the transitional funds and the argument he appears to be confirming | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
in the speech today is the decision taken by the Secretary of State to | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
grant transitional funding are to stave off a rebellion rather than | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
giving it to Local Authorities that leave it the most. I thank the | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
honourable lady for her intervention. But the cases made | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
about rural constituencies, whether funding was going to widen the gap | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
that we had begun to close. That was the issue that was at stake here. So | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
I am delighted that not notably have funds been made available to make | :37:17. | :37:24. | |
sure the gap doesn't get any wider, but more report on than the money | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
and made available is the promise of a comprehensive review of the cost | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
of delivering services. That gives us the opportunity to establish that | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
in the rural areas it does cost more to deliver the same services than it | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
does in urban areas, and therefore... I will give way. My | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
honourable friend is right about the fundamental reassessment. But does | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
he share my disappointment that repeatedly in January the opposition | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
spokesman refused to sign up to closing the gap? | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
I couldn't agree more with my honourable friend. We need to | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
address the issue and the review gives us the opportunity we have | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
asked the time and time again to establish the true cost and night I | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
will be happy to be supporting the Government this motion. Louise | :38:08. | :38:17. | |
Ellman. Thank you. Liverpool is one of the most deprived Local | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
Authorities. It is also entrepreneurial, always ready to | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
adapt to new circumstances and welcoming innovation. Despite the | :38:26. | :38:34. | |
valiant efforts of the mayor and his counsellors, very hard-working | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
counsellors, it is not possible to protect the people of Liverpool | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
against the cuts from this government, cut of 58% up to now, | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
with an additional one 9% cut in funding for next year. Indeed that | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
cut might be even bigger, because the council still does not know how | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
much money will be available for two critical services, for that public | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
health grant and the independent living grant. Both vital funds, | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
import and for the well-being of the people of Liverpool. There is still | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
no final figure on how much money will be available there. But in my | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
short contribution to I want to focus on what I believe to be the | :39:17. | :39:24. | |
growing crisis in adult social care. Adult social care in Liverpool has | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
already suffered a ?90 million cut, as a result of government actions. | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
We have been told that the new precept, the new tax on the people | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
of Liverpool, and the better care fund will resolve that situation. | :39:41. | :39:47. | |
But when we look at the facts, we can see that those two measures | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
together will deliver 2.9 million pounds next year, and there is | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
already a need for an additional ?15.2 million, resulting from | :39:58. | :40:04. | |
implementing the national living wage, together with demographic | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
changes with there being more elderly people in the population. | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
That means the measures we have been told will solve the problem will do | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
very little indeed next year. The council is not standing still, it is | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
simply wringing its hands. It has been trying to develop innovative | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
ways of working. It is talking to the local health authority, to the | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
clinical Commissioner, to see how it can work better with them to support | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
services, but there is no way this funding gap can be plugged next | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
year, and there cannot be more cuts are very vulnerable people living in | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
Liverpool. I'm hearing day by day examples of the situation of | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
individual people, often people suffering severe disabilities who | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
are trying very hard to live a normal life, who have now been told | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
their care packages will be cut because despite the council's best | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
efforts, the funding for those packages is being significantly | :41:09. | :41:09. | |
reduce. Does my honourable friend agree with | :41:10. | :41:21. | |
me that the Government must look at bringing forward the additional | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
funding base missed from the better care fund to this year, so that | :41:25. | :41:31. | |
there is not a gap and councils get extra money to support vulnerable, | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
elderly and disabled people? I certainly agree with my honourable | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
friend. In the case of Liverpool, there is a possibility there could | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
be some help in future years. The figure that has been put forward at | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
the moment is purely indicative. The council does not know what will be | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
available in the future. It is also important to recognise the very low | :41:57. | :42:03. | |
tax base of a place like Liverpool. 78% of properties in Liverpool are | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
in bands a and B, making the possibility and the potential of the | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
council raising funds locally very, very difficult indeed. I am acutely | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
aware there have been problems across all public services in | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
Liverpool because of consecutive years of government cuts in funding | :42:23. | :42:29. | |
to come in years to come. The council has done its best to protect | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
those people. I have focused on adult social care. I believe that | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
affects the people who are most in need. I go back to the comments I | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
made earlier about the council still does not know how much money will be | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
available. Also, it is about supporting people who need help the | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
most. My concern is that unless the Government act and act now, more and | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
more people will face crises. More and more people suffering great | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
hardships who are striving hard to live a normal life will find that | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
the bug is cut away from underneath their feet. More and more people | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
will suffer. I think this is intolerable. I asked the Government | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
and the Secretary of State to revisit this area, to look again at | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
the provision of adult social care in Liverpool and aeons Liverpool -- | :43:26. | :43:32. | |
beyond Liverpool to take action so more and more people will not suffer | :43:33. | :43:43. | |
in this unacceptable way. This is, I think, are particularly important | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
local Gutmann finance settlement debate. The reason I say that, in | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
the past but we have intended to have debates where we are rolling | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
forward year upon year much of the same. The difference this year is | :43:58. | :44:04. | |
that the settlement is genuinely transformational. It moves away from | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
what is an essentially flawed system. That is why this is very | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
important. The two floors are these. Firstly it did nothing to take | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
account of efficiency within the system. The efficient authority | :44:21. | :44:28. | |
gained nothing. Everything was predicated upon demonstrating that | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
in certain parameters in the formula need, it almost entrenched | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
dependency. It drove out innovation and it drove out initiative. The | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
Government has put into place a raft of measures which enable local | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
authorities no longer to say how much do I need but how do I change | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
my own circumstances? How do I grow my rate base? The work that has been | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
done, the ability of local authorities like Bromley to enter | :45:02. | :45:08. | |
into commercial partnerships... All of that changes that. The ability to | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
go for genuine growth but in sensible terms changes that. It is | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
sad we have seen such an old-fashioned, and I think almost | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
demeaning approach towards local government, from the party opposite. | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
That is the first and most important point that we make. The second point | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
that is important is it moves away from an idea that central government | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
must sort out local government's problems all the time. It is doing | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
so with a measure of fairness. What I think is important is that we have | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
had transition because it is actually transformational. It was | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
necessary to either move from a dependency culture into a | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
self-sufficiency culture. That is utterly to the good. The second | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
thing we need to do now is to make sure, as we go forward, we get the | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
proper baseline is to make sure, as we go forward, we get the proper | :46:03. | :46:09. | |
baselines right. In Redcar and Cleveland we have lost 3000 jobs | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
with the steelworks, equivalent to ?10 million a year in business | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
rates. In London that would be the equivalent of 176,000 jobs going | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
overnight. Do not appreciate there are differences that mean councils | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
have to respond in different ways to circumstances? Of course. That is | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
why the local economic partnerships were set up. That is why there are | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
arrangements for top ups and tariffs which we can simplify going forward. | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
The idea it is simplistic means that we cannot to some degree be master | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
of our own destiny is wrong. What seems utterly wrong, in a local | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
authority like Bromley, which has historically below is unit costs per | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
head in London was treated on a formulaic basis, in exactly the same | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
way as those who had never bothered to keep unit costs down never driven | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
to efficiency in the same way we work. I was told by a civil servant | :47:06. | :47:12. | |
when I asked, there is no reward for efficiency in the formula. Surely | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
efficiency is its own reward. He did not grasp the concept. Ministers and | :47:17. | :47:23. | |
officials do grasp the concept and that should be fundamental to the | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
way we go forward. I welcome what has been done for Bromley. More | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
important, I ask the Secretary of State to ensure we take forward | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
those basic principles to the next agree. Women get to the calculation | :47:36. | :47:42. | |
of the needs element, I hope we will remember there are more than simply | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
the old-fashioned demographic trends about what constitutes need. Where | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
has been calculated in the past has been observed. It took density as | :47:52. | :48:00. | |
equating with deprivation. In London has changed and outer London has | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
changed. It demonstrates it very clearly. -- in London. It is not | :48:07. | :48:16. | |
just deprivation, it is age profile. That needs to be brought into the | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
equation. We'll is a need to make sure that where local authorities... | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
-- we also need to make sure. Where local authorities can demonstrate | :48:28. | :48:35. | |
long-term efficiencies, that should be given as much waiting in | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
calculation of a formula as a purely formula stick need ratio matrix that | :48:41. | :48:48. | |
has been established in the past. That will drive behavioural change. | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
Anyone who calls themselves... Wants to give local authorities the tools, | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
means and incentives to change behaviour, to be more efficient, and | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
to be more self-reliant. We are part the way down the track. The return | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
of business rates to localities is a huge step forward. It is an error my | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
party made in government that we have rectified it. That is a good | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
thing. The next thing I hate the Secretary of State will take forward | :49:17. | :49:23. | |
is to entrench efficiency as something that should be rewarded, | :49:24. | :49:26. | |
just as much as ticking boxes on the need indices. Then you will get | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
genuine in fairness in local government responsive to local needs | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
and it will give local representatives the abilities to | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
shape policies and finances to needs, concerns and aspirations of | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
communities. If you achieve that, it will be worth a very great deal | :49:44. | :49:51. | |
indeed. I commend this to the house. -- House. Can I pay tribute to | :49:52. | :50:01. | |
councillors up and down the land for the fantastic work they do in | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
delivering excellent public services right across communities we are here | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
to serve? Time after time, residents will say they trust local government | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
more than central government and review after review has concluded | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
local government is the most efficient arm of government, more | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
than any other central government department. The term, lions led by | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
donkeys could not be more apt when we look at the relationship between | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
central government and local councillors. The front line in | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
delivery services and quite often the last line of defence in | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
protecting communities they are there to serve. For far too long, | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
local government has been subjected to Follies by ministers using public | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
services as a plaything, a toy. Cash is the weapon of choice. In a | :50:53. | :51:03. | |
community of a quarter of a million people, I witnessed and implemented | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
settlement is passed down by this government. As demand full support | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
increase, money was taken away as a link between need and available cash | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
was broken. Government were warned time and again that removing money | :51:16. | :51:23. | |
from prevention will add to costs from other parts of government. In | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
greater Manchester it is the case that almost every ?1 taken away from | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
local councils, the same has been shunted across to welfare and health | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
because pressures get moved around the system. It is worse for the | :51:36. | :51:38. | |
people we represent and says the Government no money whatsoever. Will | :51:39. | :51:45. | |
my honourable friend give way? Of course. Is my honourable friend | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
aware that the cost of delayed discharges from hospital is almost | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
?1 billion a year. That could by over 40,000 elderly people are's | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
worth of home care. How does that make moral or economic sense? I | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
absolutely agree with my friend on these benches. The better care fund | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
had methods in place of putting money on the front line to save | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
further down the line. It was completely inadequate for the needs | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
that were there. The chartered Institute of Public Finance and | :52:20. | :52:25. | |
accountancy has placed on record its view some councils could well fall | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
over. The challenge, of course, will not come from one council failing to | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
set a budget, the challenge will come in courts. As an entitlement to | :52:33. | :52:39. | |
basic services are taken away, someone will test that in court. | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
When there is a judgment that entitlement has unlawfully been | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
taken away, it will send shock waves through the system that I do not | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
think central government is ready for. At that point, the system may | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
fall over. The truth is, the Government does not want to be | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
honest about the true cost of cuts will do if we look at adult social | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
care, which most will accept is one of the biggest challenges facing | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
local government and society more generally, our older population grew | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
by 11.4% between 2010-2014 while funding was being taken away. Over a | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
million people have unmet care demands, it is estimated. What is | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
the Government response? Lacklustre, weak, pathetic. It does not address | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
the social care crisis in this country today. You are perfectly | :53:34. | :53:40. | |
right to quote those figures. Actually the demand for need. Two | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
unpaid family carers. This government passed the 2012 care act | :53:46. | :53:51. | |
which gave those carers rights. There is no funding for that. That | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
is the basis on which legislation will have to be used. Thank you. We | :53:56. | :54:01. | |
can talk about figures. It is a settlement debate. We need to think | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
about the human cost. Down the line, what does it mean for individuals, | :54:07. | :54:14. | |
families and communities? Oldham, ?200 million of cuts. It leaves a | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
gross budget of 188 million. Or than half of that town's and a has been | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
taken away by the Government. If the answer to adult social care is a 2% | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
levy on council tax, let's follow that through and see what it means. | :54:31. | :54:37. | |
For Oldham, a 2% increase in council tax, as directed by governments come | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
generate ?1.5 million. They have a low council tax base to begin with. | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
The increase just in the living wage impact on social care contracts, not | :54:50. | :54:55. | |
even standing still, not taking account of population or demand were | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
just to stay still, is ?2.7 million. 1.5 generated in council tax, ?2.7 | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
million in increased wage bills through the Government's living | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
wage. Another is to not add up and it does not allow that to stay | :55:11. | :55:17. | |
still. We are going backwards. What was the response? The response was a | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
cash bonus. I am sure my friend on the opposite benches towards the | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
back is very pleased at the cash bonanza to buy his vote today. Some | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
of us were not so fortunate. We had a raw settlement and a raw deal from | :55:33. | :55:40. | |
the Government. On top of the ?203 million, we cannot ignore the role | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
relief grant. That is to take into account not a single bit of need. It | :55:46. | :55:53. | |
has been pointed out that 85% of this funding has been given to Tory | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
shires. Let me go closer to home and look at greater Manchester. | :56:00. | :56:03. |