22/02/2016 House of Commons


22/02/2016

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Hello and welcome to BBC Parliament live coverage of the House of

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Commons. At half past three David Cameron will make a statement to MPs

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on the deal reached with European Union leaders on reforming the terms

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of the UK's membership of the EU. That agreement pave the way for the

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out referendum on the 23rd of June. Mr Cameron announced the date on

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Saturday when he returned from Brussels. The Prime Minister will

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make the case for the EU UK to Burbank. Such is the justice

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secretary and the work and pensions Secretary. The Prime Minister

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statement on the EU will be repeated and debated in the House of Lords as

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well. Member to join me for a round-up of the days debate about

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the EU in both houses of parliament at 11 o'clock this evening. We start

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this question to the home Secretary May.

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Order! Order! Questions to the Secretary of State for the Home

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Department. Question one Mr Speaker. Thank you, the investigator and

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Powers bill has been in close consultation with the industry. The

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cost of the public for implement the provisions will continue to be

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refined as we hope more detailed vote come. They can meet the costs

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themselves. Full cost recovery will reply to operational cost including

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those associated with new obligations under the bill. Thank

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you Mr Speaker, the science and technology committee warned that the

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bill of risk undermining the start we performing tech sector. Will the

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Secretary of State and sure as that the UK businesses will not be placed

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at a commercial disadvantage to overseas competitors? I can assure

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the gentleman that. As I said and my answer to his initial question, we

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will be ensuring that the full cost recovery replies to operational cost

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for any companies who have, except for notices issued to them. What is

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clear is that that is what we have done as the government in the past,

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that is the privileged governments have done and we will continue its.

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Was the home secretary look carefully at the recommendations of

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the joint committee in regards to but recognition of the Internet. We

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were clear that greater clarity is needed on deafness in order to be

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able to allow the private sector to fully cost there for proposals. I

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think the right honourable gentleman, those honourable members

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and any other place to set on that committee and who did an excellent

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job in producing their reports, a very well thought through and

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careful report. We will look very carefully at the issue. We are

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looking awfully on all committees. We will bring forward a revised bill

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proposals in due course. On the specific issue of private

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businesses, could be home secretary outlines what recent discussions she

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or her ministers have had with the devolved ministrations about that

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particular aspect? Discussions with devolved ministrations have been

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going on throughout the preparation of the initial draft bill, and

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indeed have continued and will continue. Also, but will also

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continue its discussions between ministers and officials and the

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companies and private room at private businesses themselves.

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Question number two Mr Speaker. With the mission was a speaker I will

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answer questions two and ten on the order paper together. The minimum

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income threshold of ?18,600 for sponsoring a partner under the

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family immigration roles, and so is that couples wishing to establish

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the family life in the UK do not place burdens on the taxpayer and

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hub motor integration. It is being considered by the courts and upheld

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by the court of appeals. The Low the welfare of immigrants has said that

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these rules discriminately affecting women. 25% get less than 18,600

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compared to 75% of men. This gives young people it is evident as well.

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What actual the home Secretary take to reduce these on sale rules? I

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would say that the threshold was set as advice of the migration advisory

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committee to look very carefully on the levels of income and terms of

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not being a bargain on the taxpayer. The gross median and Scotland in

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2014 racks at 21,725 higher than the threshold. This of legal challenge

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has been raised by the course of Appeal. The threshold was upheld.

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Thinking you Mr Speaker, the Secretary of State will see a story

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reported by the BBC this morning where she fled the area and gave

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birth to her son in the UK. Her husband a Syrian national is unable

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to join the meeting because they cannot afford the fees of these. Can

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Secretary of State tell us with his British nationals should go to enter

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her family life. Her husband home country of Syria? There are various

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different routes that could be available. We have the family

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reunion and route that can apply and circumstances. I'm not familiar with

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all the us is that he highlights. Equally, the government is in

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respect for uncertainties for the protection of the children. This is

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considered by the court and upheld. That gave the point made so

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eloquently by my Honorable friend about not being a burden on the

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taxpayer. To what extent do we take into account, charges made by other

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countries, two British nationals hoping to emigrate to those

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countries? I say, my honourable friend makes a point on different

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immigration systems and different parts of the world. Obviously we

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have taken advice on the migration advisory committee looking at cost

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and look at those pardons to see that someone does not place a burden

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on the UK taxpayer. But his odyssey for other countries to assess what

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is appropriate and their own system. The financial threshold family visas

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is causing particular distress to one of my constituents who cannot

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work the hours required because she is a carer for her vulnerable child.

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This means she is living without her husband and the Taliban without his

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father. Does the Minister acknowledged that he is at risk of

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creating a generation of children whose only contact with one of their

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parents will be via Skype? Now, I don't except the point the Honorable

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Lady makes. These issues of the welfare of the child are absolutely

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part of the consideration that the takes, this was a matter that was

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considered by the courts of the pale. And firmly upheld. I would say

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to the Honorable lady that when this issue of the -- all being said in

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November 2011, the migration advisory committee gave a lower

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threshold of 18,600 but equally advise the national could have been

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set at 25,000 700. The Government reflected in those circumstances and

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set it to level as it has done. That little has been upheld by the court.

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The Minister has mentioned the court of appeal but the matter is not

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entirely set from a legal point of view because this week the Supreme

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Court will hold the cases of two but is nationals who cannot meet these

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tough financial rules to allow their not EU spouses to come and live with

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them. The Honorable member for Hampstead and Coburn has mentioned

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that according to the children's Commissioner for England there are

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15,000 British children growing up via Skype. How can the Minister

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justified the stress and anxiety caused by these children -- to these

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children for the other flexible and unjust rule. I don't accept the

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characterisation that the honourable lady has proven to. I does recognise

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the number that she has proffered. I do say, that it is about good

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immigration, it is in relation to language in terms of mapping a

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bargain to the taxpayer but equally promoting integration. We believe

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the policy is ineffective in doing that. ... Last year the conservative

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call on the government to change these rules. Melting, the

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significant contribution made by millions of Brooke Britons living

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as the Minister of Rome as the opposition, will he at least listen

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to his own party and get rid of these rules was to scrimmage against

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hard-working families? I say again to the honourable lady that we do

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not believe that the rules are discriminatory, and the way that she

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is a just and characterises, the system is in place to ensure a good

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integration and is absurd that people are not a burden on the

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taxpayer. I thought that was something she would recognise as

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being a positive aspect of the policy to make sure that people can

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contribute and settle. The rules have been set, and upheld by the

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court and look at the two of underline those key things. With

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permission I will answer questions three and 16 on the order paper

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together. Border force carries out 100% of the tax. They deliver an

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effective and intelligent responses for a range of security threats.

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They used equipment and a range of search techniques. I think the home

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secretary for that answer but last of the birth of eminent fives were

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found in a container in my constituency, that came just three

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weeks after 20 immigrants were found of wear. Given that my local border

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forces are facing cuts, how can the secretary reassure me that these

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cuts are not damaging the safety and security? The approach that we are

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taking to these matters comes across in a number of ways. First of all,

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in relation to water forth, we are looking to edge does this

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technology, but also to an Benedike Howedes make sure they can operate

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successfully. It will be a much more intelligent lead approach. We can

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target what they need to be in accordance with the intelligence,

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and also this government has enhanced our ability to deal with

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organised crime. This is an issue that the national crime agency set

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up by the last Coalition government is taking very seriously and is

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acting on. Thank you, I have ten electronic passports case and my

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efficiency at the airport of my department is unable to tell me how

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many people travelled through. And how often they malfunction and how

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many were Texans they are. Does the home Secretary agree with me that

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the warning -- as identified by the office, this is one of them and it

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should be looked into? What I say is that I think that the increased

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number of each day for checking passports that we have is a good

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move. It's and hat security at our border. Thank you Mr Speaker, I have

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been trying to figure out how many people arrive at UK airports without

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valid travel documents. I'm very surprised that nobody seems to be

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able to give me an answer to this. Within minutes be able to give me an

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answer and if not hesitate to ask them to find out this important

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matter? I can tell my honourable friend that 18,000 individuals were

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refused at entry at the border in 2014 equity those who were

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travelling on an valid documentation. When somebody comes

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the UK border they are subjected to a range of tax we have offices at

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the border who trained and are able to detect forged documents and steps

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are being taken to intercept those individuals who don't have the

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correct documents of of a bit over at the border. And I congratulate

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the home Secretary are the words as he sat on the value of EU membership

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in terms of protecting the safety and security of this country. Can I

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ask her, even though that is the case and I agree with her could we

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have more specific focus on the quieter port, the quieter airports

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were the smuggling gangs know it is quieter? I indicated in my response

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earlier to one of his honourable friend, that the way border forces

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of prejudice as in a much intelligent lead basis, so that they

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can be flexible in relation to the staff that employed in different

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ports, professing recognising, that we don't eat as a focus on one or 24

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22 focus on a range of ports. -- focus on one or two ports. We need

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to rely on strong EU coordinated approach to security including at

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our borders and our ports. The Secretary of State and I know road

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that we rely on EU criminal justice and security measures. And those

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circumstances, I assume that the home office carried out a risk

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assessment on the impact of UK withdraw and the EU on security at

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ports. Recommended of the public who have not yet decided how to vote in

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the referendum access the conclusions? I have dissected say to

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the honourable gentleman, I'm not sure that his parliamentary language

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for me to repeat Mr Speaker. He can rest assured that argument there

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relations of these matters will be fully set out for people over the

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coming months. One of the arguments I put, he will have no because he

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was involved in this and a different capacity before he came into this

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chamber. It was around issues like the operation of various sizes and

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home affairs meshes is what we set out very clearly as the government

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by without the benefit was in being part of those measures. Tony Smith

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the interim head of the UK border for from 20 1213 said that a vote to

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leave the EU would pose a lot of issues for the border force who is

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already under huge pressure. In particular he highlighted the fact

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that the border for staff would have to carry out more attacks on EU

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citizens. Can the Secretary of State confirm that the border for school

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and the fact to face more cuts year on year for the foreseeable future?

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I'm happy to say that anybody who comes to the UK border, anybody

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receives a stringent checks at the UK border, we are doing that now on

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a much more intelligent lead basis, in terms of looking at individuals

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who may be of concern, and yes he is right that we have interactions with

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other member states and the European Union to the use of things like a

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system to identify people who are of concern who are coming across the

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border. Border forth and other operations are not about people, the

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about goods and bridges are good and illegal goods being brought into the

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UK. That is where the intelligence led approach can be helpful in

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identifying when the areas of concern and action being taken

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appropriate of properly. But commission on what action questions

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four and 14 on the order paper. Crime commissioners, sorry for and

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13. Crime commissioners are providing a comfortable position and

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making a real difference to policing locally. There has been a reduction

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in crime and more than a quarter sensor and seduction. -- production.

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There is already good process of scrutiny that is available through

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the piece and crime panels, for looking at any potential crime that

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police may have. That process it is enshrined and is being taken. What I

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do is when any area is looking at the potential for roles, for such as

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we have in the greater Manchester area in relation to peace and crime

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commissioner with the productive mayor of that area. There is full

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consideration of all the aspects of the issue to ensure that going ahead

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they can give it to do so properly without conflict of interest as

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ensuring that the best services delivered. Thank you Mr Speaker, my

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local police force received a positive inspection report from the

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home inspector. With my right honourable friend join me and please

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do the work of the constable at the conservative police and crime

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commissioner and their efforts to fight crime and specifically the

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chief constables national work on the prevent programme. I'm very

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happy to exit and congratulations I'm sure everybody across his house

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to the excellent work that is being done by the chief constable and the

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peace and crime commissioner. They have done an job and the crime

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commissioner will be stepping down. But I would like to thank them for

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the work that he has done over his first term at peace and crime

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commissioner. The main problem that the South Yorkshire police and crime

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commissioner faces is the shortfall in his budget was Roosevelt and too

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much 250 police jobs being lost. It makes rational planning difficult.

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With the home Secretary agreed that the PCs can do the job better if

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they had the budget set at the remainder of the Parliament of what

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will they do about it? The pitcher he has had out is not the one that I

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recognise. We have protected, police budgets, across the period of the

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Comprehensive Spending Review. I would have thought that he would

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have welcome that given that his front this one of the cut by 10%. A

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recent reports by the British retail consultant found that these crimes

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have gone up by 25%. What action was the home Secretary take to and a

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vote for commissioners to take act against any level of violence

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against retail staff. What action can be take to reduce this? First of

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all, I think we are all concerned about Violet Maxine taken place. It

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is a matter of real concern. The operational response to such crimes

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being committed and the business of such crimes as a matter for the

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chief Constable of the particular for the area to look into. I know

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there are a number of retail chain to ever working very closely. To try

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to ensure that they are able to provide added support and security

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for the staff. Although I have had my differences that time with the

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pleasing crime commissioner and the concert, when my right honourable

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friend agree with me that his record along with the biggest Achilles, and

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reducing crime is exemplary and is an example to all? I would again

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congratulate and walk him see what that is being done in the concert

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and relation to the reduction of crime by the chief Constable and the

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pleasing crime commissioner. It is not the only area where we have been

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able to see crime solving but I think that the following McNish or

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has been significant. -- Lancashire. Can I ask if she has any statement

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from the North have a sure crime commissioner from his panel? It is

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expected that the full transfer funding from the urban areas to more

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rural areas and that the city will benefit. As developing government

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policy or is it just letting the cat of the bag? I would have tossed the

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ombudsman would be aware, we have Derek Lilley said that the proposed

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changes that we were... We're trying to develop a formula that is

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affected of the needs. I also sent to the ombudsman he looks across the

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at police forces across the area he will see that the funding formula

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needs to change. Question five Mr Speaker. Mr Mike Penning, we ask

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permission to answer questions on the order paper. Pleasing crime

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commissioners will have a duty to collaborate on the Bill before this

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house becomes a law. Hampshire fire service and handsets of the services

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share a building resulting and financial sufficiency. Will he

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congratulated me and taking a lead and collaborative working. I was

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there recently and saw for myself deeply working is being done between

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the emergency services. The collaboration with the chief and the

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chief Constable as of the PCC to, they are doing excellent work. The

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map of my Honorable friend agree that it is important that the new

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generation of pleasing crime commissioners who have been elected,

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or will be elected in a couple months' time get behind this

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important reform. Will he join me in welcoming the commitment of the

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excellent PCC candidates and his strong desire to implement these

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subtler forms? We need to make sure that we spending taxpayer money

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efficiently and well and collaboration and that is the best

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way for that. She is really a shy or tiring so. The fire and rescue

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services collaborating very well all over the country, particularly with

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the ambulance trusts. Will you tell us why he sees necessary under the

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new bill, that the police and crime commissioners would actually take

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control of the fire services, surely the two organizations are so

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different in so many ways. You can have the collaboration without the

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PCC running our fire services. I think is of the matter, someone who

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is duly able to run that like a PCC should be on any committee. I'm sure

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we would want an efficient emergency service, before I service working

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closely with the police is the way we would like to do that.

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Collaboration with the services will be the communication network. How

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much will they cause, and though one day be in place? -- and when will

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they be in place. There are bits out there and the moment, it will be

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confidential at the moment. What we do know is that the air racism that

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we have had needs replacing, it is very expensive and this will be

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cheaper. The pleasing crime commissioner will put forward a

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business case to take over the governments of Hampshire for fire

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rescue services. My honourable friend pointed out what they already

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doing, we already have a trading arm which pays for the governments of

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the fire and rescue Authority. What this is the police and fire

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commission approved for that would allow him to run the service? If the

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local community wants to have a more efficient service which could be the

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case, and accept that they are particularly good. When I was in

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Hampshire there were people asking me for more collaboration, more work

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to be done to particularly from the front lines which is the most

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important the plaintiff. Given the cuts and funding to the police

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service, and the fire and rescue services already budgeted for by

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this government, can the Minister guarantee that placing fire and left

:28:14.:28:16.

the services under PCC control will not lead to further cut in the

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numbers of front line firefighters? This is bigger, thank goodness the

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chances of not listen to labor front bench to relive the funding for the

:28:28.:28:31.

please worked until 2020 because office they of a 10% cut. What we

:28:32.:28:37.

must make sure, what we must make sure is that we have an efficient

:28:38.:28:42.

service and that will be going for. Thank you Mr Speaker. Tackling crime

:28:43.:28:56.

is a priority for government. Show that knife crime is 14% lower than

:28:57.:29:02.

it was in June 2010, we recognise that there is more to do and new

:29:03.:29:05.

actions to tackle knife crime will be set out in the modern crime

:29:06.:29:10.

prevention strategy. I think my honourable friend for the first bite

:29:11.:29:19.

the. -- knife what action is her department taken to Brook -- tackle

:29:20.:29:25.

knife crime. Can I think my honourable friend for his question,

:29:26.:29:29.

and congratulate him on the new arrival, new baby who I believe was

:29:30.:29:37.

very involved in the delivery. I am also aware of the concerns about

:29:38.:29:41.

knife crimes and Essex, and I recently met with my right

:29:42.:29:43.

honourable friend and I have been more than happy to meet with him to

:29:44.:29:47.

discuss precisely this issue. The taking if they just steps, and early

:29:48.:29:51.

this month be supported 30 police forces, including Essex. They

:29:52.:29:55.

undertook coordinated action against knife crime. Thank you Mr Speaker.

:29:56.:30:00.

Knife crime, bike other crime is best dealt with preemptively. In

:30:01.:30:09.

Sussex crime has gone up 8%, and yet today the government inspector said

:30:10.:30:14.

that routinely front-line, neighbourhood, and local police and

:30:15.:30:18.

being taken away. Kenny Minister please be looked at the thousand

:30:19.:30:22.

front-line police officers and staff that are being taken away and for

:30:23.:30:28.

the impact neighbourhood policing? Mr Speaker, can I start when it's a

:30:29.:30:35.

-- comes to Sussex. Congratulating the police commissioner. At that

:30:36.:30:37.

hair, and we discussed to take she's I think he should remember the boat

:30:38.:30:51.

that he made in this house to cut police resources by 10%, something

:30:52.:30:55.

that decided the House disagreed with. Thank you Mr Speaker. Recently

:30:56.:31:07.

and Darby a young man lost his life. Lester, knife years rose across the

:31:08.:31:14.

UK. Can I ask my right honourable friend what steps the department are

:31:15.:31:18.

taking to tackle the scourge of individuals from carrying knives? My

:31:19.:31:22.

honourable friend is right. We do need to educate and show them people

:31:23.:31:26.

that caring matters is not school, it's not something that they should

:31:27.:31:29.

be doing. It's a big that they should understand is dangerous and

:31:30.:31:34.

can result in loss of life. That is why in the last parliament we

:31:35.:31:37.

legislated so that if someone is caught with a knife twice they have

:31:38.:31:42.

a mandatory prison sentence, and we are doing more work. I would be more

:31:43.:31:46.

than happy to work with her and discuss the specific issues and

:31:47.:31:54.

Darby which I do know have... Have the Minister considered amnesty to

:31:55.:31:59.

invite people to hand in weapons, whether it be knives or other

:32:00.:32:04.

weapons, it was very successful in the West Midlands. Mr Speaker, that

:32:05.:32:09.

is a matter for chief constables to determine. I said that we worked

:32:10.:32:15.

with 13 forces including within that work, world knife amnesties.

:32:16.:32:25.

Question number seven. Discussions with

:32:26.:32:30.

to ensure that the public are aware and protected from fraud. It is the

:32:31.:32:37.

mission to counter the wicked work of fraudsters. While I actually

:32:38.:32:44.

understand the difficulties and effectively policing the Internet,

:32:45.:32:50.

financial scams judging by my own parliamentary accounts, seem to be

:32:51.:32:55.

out of control. The most older people are being targeted. When my

:32:56.:32:59.

right honourable friend have another look at this issues and see if there

:33:00.:33:04.

is a way that we can bring these criminals to account? It's because

:33:05.:33:08.

we have taken a fresh look at this. Just as my honourable friend

:33:09.:33:13.

recommends that we have launched the joint task force, we are continuing

:33:14.:33:18.

to support the supply of the streetwise campaign which makes

:33:19.:33:21.

people more aware and guarded about fraud, but we have invested 90

:33:22.:33:27.

million, and one point billion and two security over the next years. We

:33:28.:33:33.

take this seriously. In the cyber age, I am a cyber minister up to the

:33:34.:33:41.

minute, up to the mark, and up to the job. LAUGHTER We would expect no

:33:42.:33:46.

less of the right honourable gentleman. Can I ask the cyber

:33:47.:33:54.

minister, as it seems to be -- since he is up to the mark, about the

:33:55.:33:57.

activities of a website which was discovered recently

:33:58.:34:08.

selling the stolen bank details of 100,000 British citizens? Since he

:34:09.:34:11.

is an up to the minute cyber minister, how is it possible for

:34:12.:34:16.

this website to carry on for six months before it was closed down?

:34:17.:34:22.

How much of the 1.9 billion that he is targeting on cyber crime will be

:34:23.:34:27.

used to proactively close downsides of this kind? The honourable

:34:28.:34:33.

gentleman knows because his committee has drawn attention to did

:34:34.:34:36.

in the past, that it is critically important that the government works

:34:37.:34:41.

with all other agencies including banks and private sector

:34:42.:34:45.

organizations, any task force has permission to do that. It is summed

:34:46.:34:52.

up by this. They have publicly signed up to commit their full

:34:53.:34:56.

support to work in partnership to protect the public from being

:34:57.:35:01.

victims of fraud, scams, and maximise opportunities to prevent

:35:02.:35:08.

fraudster from operating in the way that he recommended. Mr Speaker, the

:35:09.:35:11.

cyber minister will know that you are more likely to be marked online

:35:12.:35:16.

than in the street. -- mocked. Will the home secretary confirmed that

:35:17.:35:24.

after fighters of her government saying cut crime,. The tooth will be

:35:25.:35:33.

told that far from falling, crying is changing. Our country now faces

:35:34.:35:38.

crime doubling when this government continues to cut the number of

:35:39.:35:43.

police officer. The honourable gentleman will be disappointed to

:35:44.:35:46.

know that I am going to say that he is right. I remind him that we are

:35:47.:35:55.

the government that made the decision to publish the statistics,

:35:56.:35:58.

and to designate cyber crime and the way that we have. Until we

:35:59.:36:03.

appreciate the scale of the problem we won't develop the solutions

:36:04.:36:06.

necessary to deal with that. I would also say to him, as he will know,

:36:07.:36:12.

that we are using some of that extra resources to set up the national

:36:13.:36:15.

cyber centre to co-ordinate work in this area. Thank you Mr Speaker. The

:36:16.:36:30.

government has provided funding. It is interesting work that is going

:36:31.:36:36.

forward. Naturally, we will help encourage PC sees in the country to

:36:37.:36:41.

reduce crime, support victims, and closely engorged Democrats engage.

:36:42.:36:47.

The American comedian Eddie Cantor said that those currently on the

:36:48.:36:52.

most wanted list have been the most wanted as children, they would no

:36:53.:36:56.

longer be on the most wanted list. In that context, with the Minister

:36:57.:37:00.

welcomed the work that his department is doing with the early

:37:01.:37:04.

intervention foundation in creating police leaders academies on early

:37:05.:37:08.

intervention. Will he ensure that funding is available so that every

:37:09.:37:12.

police Commissioner a elected this year can attend courses this year.

:37:13.:37:23.

Can I praise the work of the early intervention foundation and the work

:37:24.:37:26.

that they're doing is important. Other agencies do important work,

:37:27.:37:30.

but we know about if we can catch them young to me compared to them

:37:31.:37:38.

from becoming criminals. Following the government's troubled families

:37:39.:37:42.

programme, it can be any doubt that early intervention works. It

:37:43.:37:47.

produces petty crime, encourages school attendance, gets people into

:37:48.:37:52.

jobs. What became clear and why this is welcome with the Minister is

:37:53.:37:56.

saying, without the active participation of the police, those

:37:57.:38:00.

programmes are so ineffectual. I hope that we will ensure that every

:38:01.:38:06.

chief constable in Commissioner will regard this in hype a wordy. I am

:38:07.:38:14.

sure that everyone has heard with my right honourable friend has said.

:38:15.:38:17.

That is why we put the money into the foundation, that is why we are

:38:18.:38:23.

doing the review at the moment into the police early intervention

:38:24.:38:26.

academy so that we can prove -- improve the outcomes. Humberside

:38:27.:38:36.

police is 500 fewer officers than five years ago, and of course across

:38:37.:38:43.

North Lincolnshire... Isn't it the case that the reality for the police

:38:44.:38:47.

on the ground is that early intervention is not a priority and

:38:48.:38:52.

it is being pushed onto ill resourced local authorities. Mr

:38:53.:38:59.

Speaker, I am sure that... Every single time we hear from the Labour

:39:00.:39:04.

Party they want more money and yet their front bench want to cut the

:39:05.:39:08.

funding to the police force. That is what the reality is, not what is

:39:09.:39:20.

actually going on. Number 11 Mr Speaker. Bear with me Mr Speaker. Mr

:39:21.:39:33.

Speaker, as I wrote earlier there are four police forces currently

:39:34.:39:39.

using track my crime. There are more coming on force, and 22 forces will

:39:40.:39:49.

have it available to them. I think the Minister for that answer. How

:39:50.:39:53.

successful has tracked my crime bend and supporting victims of crime and

:39:54.:39:56.

keeping them up to date and supporting them in the process of

:39:57.:40:00.

these matters being back investigated? When I broke this

:40:01.:40:07.

earlier, the tooth -- wrote. Victims have the confidence to

:40:08.:40:19.

actually believe in their justice system. Track my Crime will help

:40:20.:40:27.

that. The evidence gathering stage of the review has been done.

:40:28.:40:40.

18,000 police officers have been cut in the last five years. Is it really

:40:41.:40:47.

sensible to waste scarce police resources and enforcing a ban on

:40:48.:40:53.

poppers and criminalizing users other relatively harmless substance.

:40:54.:41:01.

I hope that the honourable gentleman will welcome the psychoactive

:41:02.:41:06.

substances act, because that blanket ban on the effect of these

:41:07.:41:09.

substances that we do not know what they do to young people and that

:41:10.:41:13.

they caused deaths is incredibly important. When it comes to poppers

:41:14.:41:18.

we have a commitment to reviewing the benefits of poppers against the

:41:19.:41:21.

harms to see whether they should be included. Question number 14 Mr

:41:22.:41:28.

Speaker. Thank you Mr Speaker. The modern slavery act, it is too early

:41:29.:41:38.

to make it effective -- make effectiveness of this act. Some

:41:39.:41:44.

businesses are already published a statement setting out what steps

:41:45.:41:49.

they've taken to prevent moderates lately in they're gloating surprise

:41:50.:41:57.

James. Am grateful for that reply. He writes that the role that the

:41:58.:42:01.

private sector can play in the fight against slavery should not be

:42:02.:42:05.

underestimated. What assessment has she made so far of the effectiveness

:42:06.:42:10.

of the transparency and supply chain's provision in the act for

:42:11.:42:16.

companies of turnovers with ?36 million or more. He is right. It is

:42:17.:42:21.

not about law enforcement and government taking action, it is

:42:22.:42:24.

about working with the private sector and with businesses. I am

:42:25.:42:29.

pleased that although the first set of declarations and relation to

:42:30.:42:33.

supply chains is only from the 31st of March, we have seen a number of

:42:34.:42:37.

companies going forward and making this declaration. I will in a month

:42:38.:42:42.

or so hold an event with companies to share good practice so that we

:42:43.:42:46.

can make sure that we are getting the best event, ending consumers can

:42:47.:42:50.

make their decision. Despite some of the good measures in the act, the

:42:51.:42:55.

fact is that child trafficking is still taking place across the

:42:56.:42:59.

European Union. It is taken within the scandal that is the migration

:43:00.:43:07.

crisis. What work is the home Secretary doing with her colleagues

:43:08.:43:11.

across the European Union to make sure that this issue is adequately

:43:12.:43:16.

tackled across all 28 Member States? First of all, I am encouraging other

:43:17.:43:20.

member state to take the steps that we are taking in terms of

:43:21.:43:23.

interesting new legislation adjective at the modern slavery act.

:43:24.:43:29.

Secondly, we are working with organised immigration crime --

:43:30.:43:29.

immigration crime. Quack I think that this is of enormous

:43:30.:43:47.

benefit because he is an expert in this area. Further to the question,

:43:48.:43:52.

could my right honourable friend set out in more detail the importance of

:43:53.:43:57.

the transparency and supply chains in the modern slavery act, and

:43:58.:44:01.

perhaps how it will be monitored in the future? Not to too much detail,

:44:02.:44:10.

given the time. I think that it has to import and fax. It makes

:44:11.:44:13.

companies think about the issues of the supply chains and whether there

:44:14.:44:17.

is slavery. Secondly, there are declarations as to what or no action

:44:18.:44:22.

they have taken, will be available to consumers, and they can make sure

:44:23.:44:29.

-- make choices. We are looking at a number of options for ensuring that

:44:30.:44:32.

that information is publicly available in one place. May I make

:44:33.:44:40.

the right honourable lady aware about doing excellent work in my

:44:41.:44:45.

constituency. I am shocked to hear the extent of modern slavery in this

:44:46.:44:49.

country. Does she think that people are sufficiently aware and what can

:44:50.:44:54.

she do to highlight that? Can I say to the honourable gentlemen we are

:44:55.:44:59.

are aware of the work of this organisation does. He is right. Most

:45:00.:45:03.

people in this country are shocked to know that shaped An slavery takes

:45:04.:45:07.

place, and would be more shocked to see the degree and extent of it. It

:45:08.:45:15.

is up to everyone in this house to make sure that everyone knows that

:45:16.:45:17.

they do. The government is and challenge Daesh's mitigation. I

:45:18.:45:38.

think the Minister for that response. Daesh is committing

:45:39.:45:44.

atrocities against others who do not agree with them with their way of

:45:45.:45:48.

life. What is the government doing to communicate those viscosities

:45:49.:45:52.

across the UK to prevent the spread of extreme it -- extremism across

:45:53.:46:00.

the UK. We have to challenge those extreme opinions. The UK's

:46:01.:46:11.

government highlights hyperbole is of Daesh. We work with those that I

:46:12.:46:19.

described a minute ago, 130 based community projects were delivered in

:46:20.:46:28.

2015, reaching 20 5000 people. That's 20 5000. I am glad that in

:46:29.:46:32.

this most solemn of matter and the honourable gentleman has been able

:46:33.:46:36.

to provide us with the political florist. Question number one served.

:46:37.:46:44.

Last week I was in Washington I think ministerial. A set that is

:46:45.:46:57.

really. 2014, Daesh directed, inspired, or enabled attacks in

:46:58.:47:01.

other countries worldwide. In 2015 there are almost 60 attacks, as well

:47:02.:47:05.

as well is to budget the tax tear it up by Daesh branches, including

:47:06.:47:09.

those in Libya and Egypt. This is a fight that cannot be won by five --

:47:10.:47:16.

fighting in isolation. We should be more open and sharing intelligence,

:47:17.:47:27.

and our expertise. We must organise our own efforts effectively to

:47:28.:47:30.

support vulnerable state and improve their ability to respond to the

:47:31.:47:35.

threat from terrorism. We made commitments to strengthen

:47:36.:47:39.

information sharing, enhanced efforts and discourage social media.

:47:40.:47:45.

This is the child's of our generation, and one that we will win

:47:46.:47:49.

by working together. Thank you Mr Speaker. I think my right honourable

:47:50.:47:53.

friend for her answer. But she acted with me that the creation of this

:47:54.:48:00.

was the step in the right direction, and this will change radically the

:48:01.:48:03.

future and take on more responsibilities? I agree with my

:48:04.:48:09.

honourable friend. It was important to create that directly elected

:48:10.:48:12.

individual, accountable to the public a little cruising. The call

:48:13.:48:15.

from police and crime commission is because you want to see that role of

:48:16.:48:20.

all. My right honourable friend are already in discussions about how

:48:21.:48:23.

this will might revolve and as to the criminal justice system stop

:48:24.:48:29.

can recommend the home Secretary on her announcement this began, and on

:48:30.:48:35.

her decision to put the national interest before self-interest.

:48:36.:48:41.

Unlike others. When she began at some secretary she took a

:48:42.:48:45.

Eurosceptic stance, opting out of dozens of EU measures. She has since

:48:46.:48:50.

opted back into many, most recently on the sharing of fingerprinting and

:48:51.:48:55.

DNA. Is it fair to say that the realities of office has shown her

:48:56.:49:00.

the value of EU cooperation in tackling crime and terrorism, and

:49:01.:49:04.

changed her mind on print's membership of the EU? I have always

:49:05.:49:10.

been very clear about the value of cooperation when it is in the

:49:11.:49:14.

British national interest. That is what of the 35 measures that we have

:49:15.:49:18.

decided to propose it this house should opt back into, and relation

:49:19.:49:25.

to critical 36, it was precisely because we believed it was of a

:49:26.:49:28.

national interest. I think I will take that as a yes Mr Speaker.

:49:29.:49:35.

Yesterday the Prime Minister was explicitly clear that our membership

:49:36.:49:40.

in the EU helps Britain fight terrorism. But, within minutes he

:49:41.:49:44.

was directly contradicted by one of his own cabinet members who claims

:49:45.:49:51.

that the each -- UK's EU membership made a terrorist attack are likely.

:49:52.:49:57.

Coming from an array senior members of the Cabinet, it is downright

:49:58.:50:02.

irresponsible. Will the home Secretary take this opportunity to

:50:03.:50:07.

reaffirm Government policy on this crucial issue and condemn this

:50:08.:50:14.

baseless scaremongering. Hear, hear! The government's issue is clear. I

:50:15.:50:23.

am clear that there are more areas in which cooperation with other

:50:24.:50:27.

Member States in the European Union is in our benefit in terms of the

:50:28.:50:31.

national security of this country and dealing with criminal matters.

:50:32.:50:35.

As I indicated earlier, and response to questions, we do take security at

:50:36.:50:39.

our borders seriously and that is why we have the checks that we do.

:50:40.:50:46.

The government has agreed to work when -- work and create new

:50:47.:50:52.

initiatives. Can the Minister confirm in the initiative will begin

:50:53.:50:55.

and which organizations the government will work with to help

:50:56.:50:59.

identify those children? Can I thank my honourable friend for her

:51:00.:51:04.

question. We are working with the NHC are in relation to development

:51:05.:51:11.

of a new initiative. Discussions are ongoing with the, we have had round

:51:12.:51:22.

table discussions. You will come back when our consideration has

:51:23.:51:27.

concluded. Thank you Mr Speaker. Following on in the vein of

:51:28.:51:31.

trafficking, I would like to ask the question of a constituent of I Blake

:51:32.:51:34.

cannot name because of her vulnerability. She was human traffic

:51:35.:51:38.

from Nigeria to the UK, held in domestic slavery in London, and

:51:39.:51:43.

escaped over ten years ago to my constituency. She now has a family

:51:44.:51:46.

and a husband. Her children were born in Scotland, but you cannot get

:51:47.:51:52.

help. Her the home office has not been helpful. Can the Minister meet

:51:53.:51:55.

with me and see what can be done to help his family settled in Scotland?

:51:56.:52:01.

Can I say to the honourable lady that she raises what appeared to be

:52:02.:52:05.

a serious individual case. If I may, Mr Speaker, if I can speak to the

:52:06.:52:09.

honourable lady after the station and obtained some more details we

:52:10.:52:16.

will respond. Thank you Mr Speaker. I met with a number of police

:52:17.:52:20.

officers and my constituency who have witnessed extreme trauma. The

:52:21.:52:28.

arrangements for their sick pay and their medical discharge and pension

:52:29.:52:32.

seem to be strikingly different to that of those who have suffered

:52:33.:52:36.

physical injury in the courts of their duty. Does my right honourable

:52:37.:52:38.

friend agree with the Vatican and the government's pursuit of parity

:52:39.:52:45.

between mental and physical illness, police forces should be ensuring

:52:46.:52:50.

that all injury or illness that is attributable to service is supported

:52:51.:52:55.

in the same way. I agree with my right honourable friend. Police

:52:56.:52:58.

officers are entitled to exactly the same sick leave and pay arrangements

:52:59.:53:02.

suffer a mental or a physical on this. Request is subject to same

:53:03.:53:11.

task, and is is possibility of chief constables that they provide for

:53:12.:53:14.

that in their local policies. I am also pleased to say that in October

:53:15.:53:19.

2014, the government allocated ?8 million to the blue light services

:53:20.:53:23.

programme to support the mental and physical well-being of emergency

:53:24.:53:27.

services personnel. The government have always justified their cuts to

:53:28.:53:31.

policing on the basis that crime has not gone up. Since 2010, we have

:53:32.:53:38.

lost more officers than any other force. Crime in Manchester is going

:53:39.:53:45.

up and going up faster than other metropolitan areas. As crime

:53:46.:53:49.

continues to rise, with the government reasonably be considered

:53:50.:53:51.

the production to the number of front line police officers? Lets go

:53:52.:53:56.

of this again. We as a government have not produced a number of police

:53:57.:54:00.

officers on the front line. And front line times, the percentage

:54:01.:54:03.

have gone up. One party that wanted to cut the police budget was the

:54:04.:54:09.

Labour Party. That was a people we do not to. Thank you Mr Speaker.

:54:10.:54:16.

What steps the secretary of state taking to see what we are doing to

:54:17.:54:22.

better protect the public. We are taking a number of steps as a piece

:54:23.:54:26.

of work that is being undertaken to ensure that we look at where

:54:27.:54:30.

capabilities should best light in terms of police reform. I just

:54:31.:54:36.

others this year and relation to this matter. I am happy to say that

:54:37.:54:40.

I have been able to have discussion on precisely this matter with an

:54:41.:54:45.

honourable friend who if he becomes mayor of London will continue this.

:54:46.:54:55.

The chief Rob Wainwright has ordered up to 5000 ices fighters in the EU.

:54:56.:55:01.

How does the home Secretary Phil that being in the EU makes us safer?

:55:02.:55:07.

The honourable gentleman will be aware that what is important for the

:55:08.:55:11.

United Kingdom and being in the European Union is that we are able

:55:12.:55:15.

to continue with the border controls that we have. Unlike those country

:55:16.:55:20.

and sang and, we will never be an changing, and read will maintain our

:55:21.:55:29.

security checks. Hear, hear! Mr Speaker! The Prime Minister has

:55:30.:55:34.

claimed that he has delivered on his promise that if an EU job seeker has

:55:35.:55:39.

not found work within six months they will be required to leave. A

:55:40.:55:44.

promise that he made to JCB workers on the 20th of November 20 14. In

:55:45.:55:53.

reply to my worker -- a written question, number 17574 in December

:55:54.:55:58.

of last year, the integration committee admitted that Aidan EU

:55:59.:56:01.

migrants and keep the status of the job seeker for longer than six

:56:02.:56:06.

months. Can the home secretary clarified who is right? The Prime

:56:07.:56:09.

Minister or the immigration minister? I think that we can safely

:56:10.:56:15.

say that the Prime Minister is right. In a few moments time he will

:56:16.:56:19.

be able to hew precisely how the Prime Minister has set up out. Mr

:56:20.:56:28.

Speaker, I was proud to be able to joint housing for women last week to

:56:29.:56:32.

celebrate the first anniversary of their operating the women's refuge.

:56:33.:56:40.

They support 38 women and children and 2015. Unfortunately, not all

:56:41.:56:43.

refugees are in the same position. 30 have closed over the last year.

:56:44.:56:50.

42% of crisis and is not having money beyond next month. Can the

:56:51.:56:54.

home Secretary do everything she can to ensure that no woman is forced to

:56:55.:56:59.

return home to a violent partner and possibly her death? The honourable

:57:00.:57:06.

lady, I remember the days when she and I both served on the Council for

:57:07.:57:11.

the London Borough of Merton. She continues to take in this issue

:57:12.:57:14.

domestic violence and support for the victims and survivors of

:57:15.:57:17.

domestic violence. Of course, the government has put extra money into

:57:18.:57:21.

refugees. We have been able to do that and we have also been ensuring

:57:22.:57:25.

that we support money for various domestic violence services. This is

:57:26.:57:28.

a terrible time -- crime and we need to deal with that. What assessment

:57:29.:57:36.

has been made about a number of connections made by police forces

:57:37.:57:43.

for child abuse images date is basis to be launched? My honourable friend

:57:44.:57:49.

raise and important issues. Child abuse image database. Something that

:57:50.:57:53.

this government into dues and is leading the world in terms of

:57:54.:57:59.

tackling indecent images of children online. We now have all 43 forces

:58:00.:58:04.

connected to the image database. We are starting to see real results in

:58:05.:58:16.

protecting children. Where police, fire and rescue services,. Will the

:58:17.:58:23.

Minister did a guarantee that whatever happened that there that --

:58:24.:58:29.

that they would allow the services provided to be privatised? The whole

:58:30.:58:37.

reason for enabling police and crime commission is to bring together

:58:38.:58:40.

policing and fire and rescue services is to be able to offer

:58:41.:58:45.

enhanced services. In looking at a decision to be on a local level, a

:58:46.:58:47.

business it -- case will Mr Speaker, the commission I would

:58:48.:59:01.

like to make a statement on the agreements reached in Brussels last

:59:02.:59:05.

week. First let me say a word about the migration crisis which was also

:59:06.:59:09.

discussed at the European Council. We agreed that we needed to press

:59:10.:59:13.

ahead with strengthening the use borders to ensure that not the

:59:14.:59:18.

charges are returned promptly and back the new mission that has

:59:19.:59:24.

brought the criminal gangs to put them in peoples slides and the risk.

:59:25.:59:29.

Britain. But the Constitution and all of these areas. Turning to

:59:30.:59:33.

Britain's place in Europe. I have spent the last nine months ending

:59:34.:59:36.

out the four areas are ready for form and beating with all other 27

:59:37.:59:41.

EU heads of state and government to reach an agreed with that delivers

:59:42.:59:44.

concrete reforms and all four areas. Let me take each in turn. First, but

:59:45.:59:50.

as jobs and businesses depend on being able to trade with Europe on a

:59:51.:59:54.

level praying field. The one new protection for our economy to

:59:55.:00:00.

safeguard the proud and promote our financial services industry to

:00:01.:00:03.

protect British taxpayers from because the problems in the euro

:00:04.:00:06.

zone and to ensure that we have a full say over the rules of a single

:00:07.:00:10.

market while remaining outside the euro zone. We got all those things.

:00:11.:00:15.

We have not is probably the fact of the towns and our right to keep it

:00:16.:00:18.

but we have ensured that we cannot discriminate against. Responsibility

:00:19.:00:23.

for supervising the financial stability of the UK, will always

:00:24.:00:26.

remain in the hands of the Bank of England. We

:00:27.:00:44.

have not be made to bail out countries in the euro zone, they

:00:45.:00:48.

made sure that the euro zone cannot act as a block to undermine the

:00:49.:00:50.

integrity of these free-trade single market. We guarantee that produced

:00:51.:00:53.

this is one of faith and he does commission for being outside the

:00:54.:00:55.

euro zone. For example, our financial service firms, our number

:00:56.:00:57.

one service export, employing over a million people can ever be forced to

:00:58.:01:00.

relocate inside the euro zone if they want to undertake complex

:01:01.:01:02.

trades and Europe, just because they're based in the UK. These with

:01:03.:01:05.

taxes and not to set out in a legally binding agreements, off 28

:01:06.:01:07.

member states will also clear that these reviews will be changed, to

:01:08.:01:10.

incorporate the protections of the UK as the economy that is inside the

:01:11.:01:15.

EU, but outside the euro zone. We also agree that a to enable 9 euros

:01:16.:01:26.

on countries to raise issues of concern, and we won the battle to

:01:27.:01:28.

ensure that this could be triggered by one country alone. Of course the

:01:29.:01:31.

distance would be available if he were to leave the EU. We wanted

:01:32.:01:34.

commitments to make Europe more competitive, creating jobs, and

:01:35.:01:37.

making British families more financially secure. Again, we got

:01:38.:01:42.

them. Europe will complete the single market and key areas that

:01:43.:01:46.

will help Britain. And services making it easier for thousands of UK

:01:47.:01:52.

service bays companies like IT firms to trade in Europe. In the capital

:01:53.:01:59.

so UK startups can access more for their business and an energy. We

:02:00.:02:07.

have secured commitments to complete trade and investment agreements with

:02:08.:02:10.

the fastest-growing and most dynamic economies around the world.

:02:11.:02:15.

Including the USA, Japan, China as well as our Commonwealth allies,

:02:16.:02:19.

India, New Zealand and Australia. These deals could add billions of

:02:20.:02:24.

pounds and thousands of jobs. Of course, they build on the deals we

:02:25.:02:29.

already have with the three countries around the world for which

:02:30.:02:33.

Britain has been accredited to the negotiating muscle that comes from

:02:34.:02:35.

being part of the world largest trading bloc. This is bigger, of

:02:36.:02:41.

course country after country has said that they could find trade

:02:42.:02:45.

deals with Britain, but they have also said that their priority would

:02:46.:02:50.

be trade deals with the EU. By their nature, these EU deals would be

:02:51.:02:54.

bigger and better, a deal with Britain would not even be possible

:02:55.:02:59.

until we have settled our position outside of the EU. This is bigger,

:03:00.:03:02.

for those members who care about finding new trade deals outside of

:03:03.:03:07.

the EU, we would be looking at years and years of delay.

:03:08.:03:49.

Last but by no means least on competitiveness, one of the biggest

:03:50.:03:53.

frustrations for Britain's business is red tape and bureaucracy. There

:03:54.:03:55.

will be partners to cut the total burden of EU regulation on business.

:03:56.:03:58.

This build on the progress that we have already made, with the

:03:59.:04:00.

commission already cutting the number of initiatives by 80%. In the

:04:01.:04:03.

that the cost of EU red tape will be going down, not up. Of course if we

:04:04.:04:06.

were to leave the EU, but ultimately achieve a deal, with access to the

:04:07.:04:08.

single market like Norway. Who would be subject to all of the EU

:04:09.:04:11.

regulation when selling in the euro. But with no say over the world. As

:04:12.:04:14.

the former Europe spokesman for the no reason conservative party, if you

:04:15.:04:17.

want to run Europe you must be an euro. If you want to be run by

:04:18.:04:20.

Europe, feel free to join nor Ray. Third, we want to reduce the very

:04:21.:04:22.

high level of migration within the unique -- EQ by preventing our role

:04:23.:04:25.

for system to act as a magnet for people to come to our country. After

:04:26.:04:28.

the hard work of the home Secretary we have secured new powers against

:04:29.:04:30.

criminals of the country and power to stop them from coming here in the

:04:31.:04:34.

first is empowered to do for them if they already here. We agreed a

:04:35.:04:36.

longer reentry bands for fraudsters and people who collude and then into

:04:37.:04:39.

the ridiculous situation for EU nationals can avoid British

:04:40.:04:42.

immigration rules when bringing their feminism outside the EU.

:04:43.:04:47.

Disagreement broke new ground with the European Council agreed to

:04:48.:04:51.

reverse positions from the European Court of Justice. We also secured a

:04:52.:04:56.

breakthrough agreement for Britain to reduce the unnatural drawl that I

:04:57.:05:00.

benefit system exerts across Europe. Therefore he made sure that EU

:05:01.:05:05.

migrants cannot claim the new employment benefit or universal

:05:06.:05:09.

credit. Those coming that have not found work within six months cannot

:05:10.:05:13.

be required to leave. At this counsel we agree that EU migrants

:05:14.:05:17.

working in Britain can be prevented from sending Child benefit home at

:05:18.:05:22.

UK rates. This would apply first some new claimants and then to

:05:23.:05:26.

existing claimants on the start of 2020. We also establish a new break

:05:27.:05:32.

so that EU migrants would have to wait for years until they have full

:05:33.:05:36.

access to our benefit. Mr Speaker, people for the it was impossible to

:05:37.:05:43.

achieve real change in our area. Yet, that is what we have done, we

:05:44.:05:49.

have got the benefit. What is activated, once activated, the

:05:50.:05:55.

emergency brake will be in place for seven years. If it began to lecture

:05:56.:06:01.

it will still be operating in 2024. There will be people who won't be

:06:02.:06:07.

getting 40 benefits until 2028. Bass full benefits. People should not be

:06:08.:06:16.

able to come there and get access to our benefit to them straightaway. No

:06:17.:06:21.

were something for nothing. I'm sure the discussion about welfare and

:06:22.:06:26.

immigration, will be intense, let me make this point. No country outside

:06:27.:06:31.

of the EU has agreed full access to the single market without accepting

:06:32.:06:36.

paying into the EU, and accepting free movement. In addition, our new

:06:37.:06:41.

safeguard lives if we vote the leave the EU. We might end up with free

:06:42.:06:46.

movement, but without these new protections. The fourth area, where

:06:47.:06:52.

we wanted to make significant changes was to protect our country

:06:53.:06:57.

from further European political integration, and to increased powers

:06:58.:07:01.

for our national parliament. Ever since we joined, Europe has been on

:07:02.:07:05.

the path to something ever closer union. It means a political union.

:07:06.:07:10.

We have never liked it or wanted it. And now, principal be permanently

:07:11.:07:16.

and legally excluded from it. The text that is, the treaties will be

:07:17.:07:20.

changed to make clear, and I quote, the Treaty represents for an ever

:07:21.:07:25.

closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom. This is bigger, as a

:07:26.:07:30.

result of this negotiation, perfect in every part of a European Union

:07:31.:07:35.

superstate. The council also agreed that ever closer union which has

:07:36.:07:38.

been referred to, and previous estimates from the European Court of

:07:39.:07:43.

Justice, does not offer a legal basis, for extending the scope of

:07:44.:07:47.

any provisions of the charges, or any you secretary the translation.

:07:48.:07:52.

People used to talk about a multispeed Europe, now we have a

:07:53.:07:56.

clear agreement that not only are different countries able to travel

:07:57.:07:59.

at different speeds, but they are ultimately able to head to different

:08:00.:08:04.

destinations as well. I would argue that that is a fundamental change in

:08:05.:08:09.

the wait is over additional work. We also strengthen the role of this

:08:10.:08:12.

house and on national parliament, we already passed a referendum act, to

:08:13.:08:18.

make sure that no powers can be handed to Brussels without this

:08:19.:08:20.

house and on national parliament, we already passed a referendum act, to

:08:21.:08:23.

make sure that no powers can be handed to Brussels with updates with

:08:24.:08:25.

the consent of the British the position we don't want, we can get

:08:26.:08:28.

together with other parliaments and block it with a red card. And we

:08:29.:08:32.

have a new mechanism to enforce the principle that as far as possible,

:08:33.:08:36.

powers to sit here and Westminster, not to Brussels. The European Union

:08:37.:08:43.

has to go through the powers of the exercise and work-out which are no

:08:44.:08:46.

longer needed and should be returned to Michigan State. In recent years

:08:47.:08:53.

we have also seen attempt to bypass are off out on Justice and home

:08:54.:08:55.

affairs by bringing forward legislation. The agreements and Les

:08:56.:09:07.

Bleus Council ensures that this can never happen again. The reforms that

:09:08.:09:13.

we have secured will be legally binding in international law and

:09:14.:09:16.

will be deposited as a Treaty at the UN. They cannot be unpacked that the

:09:17.:09:22.

agreement of the prison every other EU countries. As I have said, I'll

:09:23.:09:27.

28 member states that the treaty will be changed to incorporate

:09:28.:09:30.

advertisers for the UK as an economy outside the euro zone, and our

:09:31.:09:34.

permanent exclusion from ever closer union. Mr Speaker, our special

:09:35.:09:39.

status means that Britain can have the both best of both worlds. Who

:09:40.:09:45.

will be in the path of Europe that work for us, and so it's a affect

:09:46.:09:48.

us, in the driving seat of the worlds biggest single market, and

:09:49.:09:53.

with the ability to take action to keep our people safe. We will be

:09:54.:10:32.

out of the parts of Europe that do not work for us. Out of the euro, as

:10:33.:10:37.

of the euro zone bailouts come out of the passport periods no border

:10:38.:10:39.

area and permanently and legally protected from ever being part of a

:10:40.:10:42.

ever closer union. Of course there is still more to do, I am the first

:10:43.:10:45.

to say, that there is though many ways and was organisation needs to

:10:46.:10:47.

improve. The task of reforming Europe does not and with plastics

:10:48.:10:49.

agreement. With the special status that the settlement gives the I do

:10:50.:10:52.

believe that the time has come to fulfilling the other final

:10:53.:10:54.

commitment that this government made and that is to hold a referendum. Mr

:10:55.:10:57.

Speaker, this Speaker, I am today commended the process set out from

:10:58.:10:59.

our act and to propose that the British people decide our future and

:11:00.:11:02.

Europe to an in and out referendum on Thursday the 23rd of June. The

:11:03.:11:04.

Foreign Secretary is late and both houses and the government is

:11:05.:11:07.

negotiating it. This is built into the duty to publish information, set

:11:08.:11:09.

out in section six of the European Union referendum and that the

:11:10.:11:11.

Cabinet agreed on Saturday, the government of Zimbabwe to recommend

:11:12.:11:13.

that person remains in a reformed European Union. This is a vital

:11:14.:11:19.

decision for the future of our country, I agree that we should also

:11:20.:11:24.

be clear that it is a final decision. An idea has been put

:11:25.:11:28.

forward that in the country votes to leave. We can have a second

:11:29.:11:32.

renegotiation and perhaps another referendum. I want to vote on the

:11:33.:11:38.

irony that some people who want to vote to leave, apparently want to

:11:39.:11:40.

use a leave to remain. Such an approach, also ignores more profound

:11:41.:12:05.

point about democracy, diplomacy and the galaxy. This is a straight

:12:06.:12:09.

Democratic position. Staying in or leaving and no government can ignore

:12:10.:12:14.

that. Having a second renegotiation followed by a second referendum is

:12:15.:12:22.

not on the ballot paper. And for a promise are to ignore the expressed

:12:23.:12:25.

will of the British people to leave the EU, we are not just from but it

:12:26.:12:31.

would be undemocratic. On the diplomacy, the idea that the other

:12:32.:12:35.

European countries will be ready to start a second negotiation is for

:12:36.:12:39.

the birds. Many are under pressure for what they have already agreed.

:12:40.:12:44.

Then there is a legality and I want to start off as point for the house

:12:45.:12:48.

carefully because it is important. If the British people told to leave,

:12:49.:12:52.

there is only one way to bring that about. That is to trigger article 50

:12:53.:12:57.

of the treaties and begin the process of exit. The British people

:12:58.:13:01.

would rightly expect that that should start straightaway. That may

:13:02.:13:05.

be absolutely clear about how this works. As triggers a two your time

:13:06.:13:10.

period to negotiate the residence for an exit. At the end of the

:13:11.:13:15.

stairs, is no group what is in place, then exit is automatic and

:13:16.:13:20.

left everybody in the other states agrees to a delay. We should be

:13:21.:13:28.

clear that this process is not a invitation to rejoin, it is a

:13:29.:13:31.

process for leaving. I have known a number of couples who have began

:13:32.:13:36.

divorce proceedings, but I do not know an event begun divorce

:13:37.:13:39.

proceedings and order to renew their marriage vows. LAUGHTER that may

:13:40.:13:54.

explain, I want to explain what happens when section 50. We should

:13:55.:14:01.

also be clear... We should also be clear, what would happen if that

:14:02.:14:07.

deal to leave was not done within two years. Our current access to the

:14:08.:14:10.

single market would cease immediately, after two your throat.

:14:11.:14:14.

The current trade agreements with the difficulties across the world

:14:15.:14:18.

would lapse. This cannot be described as anything other than

:14:19.:14:23.

risk, uncertainty and a lead in the dark that could hurt working people

:14:24.:14:27.

and our country for years to come. This is not some theoretical

:14:28.:14:32.

question, this is a real decision about peoples lives.

:14:33.:14:44.

When it comes the people stops, it is simply not enough to say it will

:14:45.:14:49.

be all right on the night that will work it out. I believe that

:14:50.:14:51.

intermixed the company to properly face up to the economic consequences

:14:52.:14:54.

of a choice to leave. Mr Speaker, I believe that Britain will be

:14:55.:14:56.

stronger, safer and better off by remaining in a reformed European

:14:57.:14:58.

Union. Stronger, because we can play a leading role in one of the worlds

:14:59.:15:01.

largest organizations from within. Helping to make sure the big

:15:02.:15:04.

decisions on trade and security that determine our future. Safer, because

:15:05.:15:08.

the can work with our European partners to fight cross-border crime

:15:09.:15:12.

and terrorism. And better off because businesses will have full

:15:13.:15:16.

access to the free-trade single market, bringing jobs, investment

:15:17.:15:24.

and lower prices. Mr Speaker, there will be much debate about

:15:25.:15:26.

sovereignty and rightly so, to me, what matters most is the pattern to

:15:27.:15:29.

get things done for our people and our country. Leaving the EU may

:15:30.:15:34.

briefly make us feel more sovereign, but would actually give us more

:15:35.:15:38.

power or influence and a greater ability to get things done? If we

:15:39.:15:43.

leave, but we have the power to stop opposite is being discriminated

:15:44.:15:47.

against? No! But we have the power to insist that Europeans countries

:15:48.:15:51.

share with us their bold information so that we know what there is that

:15:52.:15:55.

criminals are doing? No! We have more influence over the decisions

:15:56.:15:59.

that affect the prosperity and security epistemic? Know we won't!

:16:00.:16:03.

We are a great country! Whatever it was the make, we will still be

:16:04.:16:07.

great! I believe the choice, is between being and even greater brain

:16:08.:16:13.

inside how to reform the EU, or a great leap into the unknown! The

:16:14.:16:17.

Times is facing the West and how to reform the EU, or a great leap into

:16:18.:16:20.

the unknown! The Times is facing the West today Vladimir Putin aggression

:16:21.:16:23.

and eases the most extremism to the south, this is in no time to divide

:16:24.:16:28.

the web. When faced with challenges, and to our way of life, our values

:16:29.:16:32.

and freedoms, this is it time for strength in numbers. Mr Speaker, let

:16:33.:16:38.

me end by saying, I am not standing for reelection. I have no other

:16:39.:16:45.

agenda I have no other agenda than what is best for our country. I am

:16:46.:16:50.

standing here telling you what I think. My responsibility as prime

:16:51.:16:53.

minister is to speak plainly about what I believe is right for our

:16:54.:16:58.

country. That that is what I will do every day for the next four months.

:16:59.:17:01.

I commend the statements of the house! Thinking is bigger. I would

:17:02.:17:12.

like to think the promise of four advanced notice of the statement.

:17:13.:17:15.

And I visited him in a long time to write it because I receded a but

:17:16.:17:27.

it's as afternoon. -- I received it at 3pm this afternoon. The people of

:17:28.:17:32.

Britain face in-store price on the 23rd of June on whether to remain

:17:33.:17:35.

part of the European Union went to leave. We welcome the fact that it

:17:36.:17:40.

is now the hands of the people on this issue. We are wanting to stay

:17:41.:17:52.

and because he believed that the European Union has brought

:17:53.:17:54.

investment jobs and protection for work of consumers and the

:17:55.:17:57.

environment. We are convinced that a vote to remain as of the best

:17:58.:18:04.

interest of the people. And the 21st-century Mr Speaker, as a

:18:05.:18:08.

country and a consummate and as the human race. We faced with

:18:09.:18:12.

challenging issues. How to tackle climate change, how to address the

:18:13.:18:17.

power of global corporations, how to ensure that they pay state taxes.

:18:18.:18:22.

How to tackle cyber crime and terrorism, I would trade fairly and

:18:23.:18:28.

protect jobs and pay in an era of globalisation. How we address the

:18:29.:18:31.

causes of the huge refugee movement across the world. How would add that

:18:32.:18:38.

to a world where people of all countries, move more frequently to

:18:39.:18:44.

live, work and retire. All of these issues are serious, pressing and

:18:45.:18:47.

self-evidently can only be solved by international cooperation. The

:18:48.:18:52.

European Union will be a vital part of how we as a country meet those

:18:53.:18:58.

challenges. Therefore Mr Speaker. That is more than disappointing that

:18:59.:19:02.

the prime Minister Steele has failed to address a single one of those

:19:03.:19:08.

issues. Last week, like him, I was in Brussels, meeting with heads of

:19:09.:19:16.

governments and leaders of European Union Socialist party. One of them

:19:17.:19:17.

said to me, what they said, if the party opposite of what

:19:18.:19:57.

had to think for a moment about what's going on. One person said to

:19:58.:20:01.

me, I follows quite profound, he said we are discussing the future of

:20:02.:20:07.

a continent. And one English Tory has reduced it to the issue of

:20:08.:20:12.

taking away benefits from workers and children. The reality Mr

:20:13.:20:16.

Speaker, is that this entire negotiation has not been about the

:20:17.:20:20.

challenges facing our confidence, neither has it been about the issues

:20:21.:20:26.

facing the people of Britain it is a theatrical sideshow about trying to

:20:27.:20:31.

appease or failing to appease the half of the Prime Minister is all

:20:32.:20:36.

the conservative party. That is not to say that there has not been

:20:37.:20:41.

somewhat worthwhile changes. The Redcar assist him, to strengthen the

:20:42.:20:46.

house of national parliament is something we and these mentors have

:20:47.:20:53.

long back, the labor and elastin last in Iraq's election. It was not

:20:54.:20:59.

of the conservative man manifesto but we welcome this. We also welcome

:21:00.:21:03.

the symbolic amendment on ever closer union. Britain's

:21:04.:21:09.

long-standing position not to join has been such an accepted. We see

:21:10.:21:15.

the influence of Tory party funders, on a Prime Minister vessel status,

:21:16.:21:22.

not for Britain but the city of London. It is the same essence of

:21:23.:21:26.

that caused his the Chancellor to rush to Europe with an army of

:21:27.:21:34.

lawyers to oppose any regulation of the grotesque level of bankers

:21:35.:21:39.

bonuses. It is necessary to protect the rights of 9 euros on states, but

:21:40.:21:46.

not to undermine EU wide efforts to regulate the financial sector,

:21:47.:21:52.

including the border. Liberals stand for a different approach. That's a

:21:53.:21:59.

labor. That is why members of the European Parliament is a opposing

:22:00.:22:06.

the transatlantic trade negotiations was trying to undermine national

:22:07.:22:11.

sovereignty, push the privatsation of public services, drive down

:22:12.:22:18.

standards for workers and consumers, Mr Speaker, human rights should be

:22:19.:22:22.

but part of that treaty. I believe it should be happy feature of all

:22:23.:22:26.

trade treaties. Then, there is the so-called emergency brake. We

:22:27.:22:33.

support the principle of Peart Constitution. However, does the

:22:34.:22:37.

evidence not back-up the claim that an overt benefits are significant

:22:38.:22:41.

draw for workers who come to Britain from the European Union. The changes

:22:42.:22:46.

he promised is secured do nothing to address the real challenges of low

:22:47.:22:50.

pay and prevent undercutting of local rates rates and and is derived

:22:51.:22:54.

pay agreements, they won't put a penny in the pockets of workers and

:22:55.:22:59.

Britain nor will they stop the grotesque exploitation of many

:23:00.:23:04.

migrant workers, or reduce migration to Britain. Will the promised to

:23:05.:23:08.

tell us what discussions he has had to get European roles and place to

:23:09.:23:13.

protect the going rates and to stop agencies bragging and cheap labor,

:23:14.:23:17.

to undercut workers and Britain, while the exploit to undercut

:23:18.:23:19.

workers and Britain, while exploiting the martyr for his? The

:23:20.:23:24.

Dees the two of the EU leaders about outlawing the so-called Buddhist

:23:25.:23:27.

derogation from the edge workers directive for which threatens to

:23:28.:23:30.

undermine one of the key achievements of the last Labour

:23:31.:23:35.

government by allowing them to use them agency staff to undercut other

:23:36.:23:41.

workers? These would have been positive and worthwhile discussions

:23:42.:23:47.

to tackle low-paid, reduce benefit cost and protect workers. We must on

:23:48.:23:52.

all of the speaker, be clear that Britain has benefited from

:23:53.:23:55.

migration. From EU workers coming into wrecking our industry to our

:23:56.:24:01.

other public services to fill gaps. The thousands of doctors and nurses

:24:02.:24:04.

who work in our national health service is saving lives every day.

:24:05.:24:11.

The European Union has delivered protection from workers, it would

:24:12.:24:13.

labor that made sure that Britain's EU membership if work is right to

:24:14.:24:18.

make minimum paid leave and protection on working time is ripe

:24:19.:24:21.

for agency workers, paid maternity and paternity leave, equal pay,

:24:22.:24:25.

anti-discrimination laws, and protection for the work force with

:24:26.:24:30.

companies changed ownership. It was labor working partnership with the

:24:31.:24:33.

parties and unions across Europe that makes of the vehicle promise of

:24:34.:24:36.

the vehicle promise of attempt to diminish workers rights was kept off

:24:37.:24:43.

the agenda of these EU negotiations. Labor has supported, move to reduce

:24:44.:24:47.

child benefits and nonresident children as a reasonable amendment,

:24:48.:24:53.

however we also welcome protection for 20 and so that families have the

:24:54.:24:56.

ability of income. The prominence it still includes consignments. But it

:24:57.:25:03.

a closet and irrelevant to the choice facing the British people.

:25:04.:25:06.

Not one to go I facing the British people. Not one fickle element that

:25:07.:25:08.

is a significant impact on the Kevin Kisner and stay in. We welcome

:25:09.:25:12.

the fact the theatrical sideshow is over. We want to make a real case

:25:13.:25:19.

that will be put by my friend the Member for who really are camping.

:25:20.:25:28.

Labor believes the EU is a model framework for European trade and

:25:29.:25:34.

cooperation in the 21st century. Not only what the EU delivered today but

:25:35.:25:38.

as a framework through which we can achieve much more in the future. To

:25:39.:25:42.

deliver these progressive reforms that I have referred to, when he to

:25:43.:25:46.

work with our partners and Europe to achieve them. Therefore, we must

:25:47.:25:50.

ensure that remain a member. That is the case are going to be making for

:25:51.:25:55.

a Europe that is socially cohesive, a Europe that share the benefit of

:25:56.:26:00.

wealth and prosperity amongst all of its citizens. But as the case we are

:26:01.:26:04.

making as Labour Party, as a trade union movement in this country and

:26:05.:26:07.

we look forward to that public debate. By Magomed have the opposite

:26:08.:26:14.

spin for his contribution. He and I disagree on a lot of things about

:26:15.:26:18.

economic policy about social policy about welfare policy, and did you

:26:19.:26:22.

even disagree on the approach we should take within and Europe as a

:26:23.:26:25.

gas as demonstrated in his the spots, but we do both agree about

:26:26.:26:29.

one thing, which says that Britain should be in there fighting for a

:26:30.:26:34.

good deal for our country. I were a little for the ombudsman because he

:26:35.:26:37.

will be accused of fossils of things. Some of the verism of the

:26:38.:26:42.

unfair. If the Texas courts will be accused of being a member of the

:26:43.:26:45.

establishment. That'll be the most unfair attack of all. What he said

:26:46.:26:51.

about the deal, than they make two points about why I think he should

:26:52.:26:56.

welcome the deal, the first is that implements, as far as I can see him

:26:57.:27:00.

as every pledged on Europe and the Labour manifesto, I'm looking at the

:27:01.:27:04.

former leader. They pledged to complete the former leader. They

:27:05.:27:07.

pledged to complete physical market, they pledged for budget discipline.

:27:08.:27:11.

They said that we will ensure that EU rules protect the interest of 9

:27:12.:27:16.

euros members. He went on and said that people coming to Britain from

:27:17.:27:20.

the EU to look for work, are expected to contribute to our

:27:21.:27:23.

economy and to our society so that we will secure is to immigration and

:27:24.:27:30.

Social Security reform. It also says and I quote," we would work to

:27:31.:27:42.

strengthen,... I'm just reminding my new friend what they said that the

:27:43.:27:48.

election. They said this "We will work just as the influence of

:27:49.:27:51.

national parliaments over Europe in the session by our group for Redcar

:27:52.:27:54.

mechanism for never states." Excellent. Where I think the right

:27:55.:28:01.

of him was unfair is that he's said that this deal was really all about

:28:02.:28:05.

Britain, and not about anyone else. I would point out the Slovakian

:28:06.:28:10.

Prime Minister said good, the myth about every quote didn't have

:28:11.:28:13.

followed. The Hungarian prime minister said that the UK managed to

:28:14.:28:17.

put an end to the practice of creeping power withdraw from

:28:18.:28:22.

national member states. The former president of the commission said

:28:23.:28:28.

that the real consequence of the summit is missionary important.

:28:29.:28:31.

Brussels has an shot a multispeed Europe. This is beneficial to your.

:28:32.:28:38.

Where I disagreed with the ombudsman is I think that these trade deals

:28:39.:28:41.

are good for Britain and is to redo them we the better. I think he's

:28:42.:28:47.

wrong about financial services. That was well received -- and outside of

:28:48.:28:53.

the southern city of London and five. Crucially, what the single

:28:54.:28:56.

market means is that with one establishment and Britain, you can

:28:57.:29:01.

trade throughout the European Union. Booze it and do the job going for

:29:02.:29:10.

Labor government than the care we have all had our difficulties with

:29:11.:29:15.

your. We have all went to the debug the damn. But if I want to get

:29:16.:29:18.

powers in turn, we have all found that because of I love for this

:29:19.:29:24.

house, we found this process trying but at the end of the day we always

:29:25.:29:29.

know when it comes to our economy and prosperity we're

:29:30.:29:38.

will be Prime Minister agree that if he refers to the continental press

:29:39.:29:47.

he will see that he has demonstrated the influence of a British prime

:29:48.:29:52.

minister. He has actually -- it will be difficult for the fellow Prime

:29:53.:29:58.

Minister is to sell to their own political establishment. Does he

:29:59.:30:01.

agree with me that future generations will benefit from some

:30:02.:30:05.

of those concessions, particularly those on and marching the single

:30:06.:30:13.

market, guaranteeing our excess, deregulating, and regular eating

:30:14.:30:17.

trade deals. Is he agree that it is not the politics of fear to point

:30:18.:30:22.

out that those who advocate a no vote don't seem to know what a no

:30:23.:30:30.

vote means? If they continually imply that somehow all of the

:30:31.:30:36.

benefits that flow from Europe in terms of jobs, investment,

:30:37.:30:40.

insecurity, will somehow continue to come here when they have swept away

:30:41.:30:44.

the obligations that previous British governments have always

:30:45.:30:50.

accepted? I am grateful for my right honourable friend says. In terms of

:30:51.:30:54.

what... It has been interesting on what some of the four newspapers

:30:55.:30:58.

have set. I will get you one example. Spanish paper has said that

:30:59.:31:02.

British execs in reality beaches new heights yesterday. No other country

:31:03.:31:08.

to its more acceptance in Europe. I am proud of that fact. We do have a

:31:09.:31:11.

different status in Europe, and that has become more special with the

:31:12.:31:14.

changes that we have made. I think that the point that my friend makes

:31:15.:31:18.

is absolutely right. They recognise that there are disadvantages for

:31:19.:31:22.

being in the European Union, I make no bones about that. I can that be

:31:23.:31:25.

but his people in the eye and say this is what it is going to be like

:31:26.:31:29.

if we state them. It was going to be better because of the deal that we

:31:30.:31:32.

have done. The people that are advising us to leave have to spell

:31:33.:31:35.

out what the consequences of leaving are, and I think that the absolute

:31:36.:31:41.

lodestar is that no country has been able to get full access to the

:31:42.:31:45.

single market without accepting either paying into the EU are

:31:46.:31:49.

accepting free movement. If you don't want to accept those two

:31:50.:31:53.

things, I think you have to start accepting that you are not going to

:31:54.:31:57.

get as good of trade and business position as we have today. People

:31:58.:32:00.

that want to be going to start making up their mind. Do you want a

:32:01.:32:06.

Norway deal? A Switzerland deal, a candidate deal? I don't care which

:32:07.:32:10.

deal you like, but we had to tell people because they deserve an

:32:11.:32:18.

answer. May I begin by thinking the Prime Minister for advanced side of

:32:19.:32:21.

the statement. The referendum choice before the electorate is a huge one

:32:22.:32:25.

which will define our relationship with the rest of Europe, and indeed

:32:26.:32:30.

the nations of the United Kingdom. Scotland is a European nation, and

:32:31.:32:36.

the SNP is a European party. We will campaign positively to remain in the

:32:37.:32:40.

EU, hopefully the Prime Minister can confirm today that he will reject

:32:41.:32:44.

the tactics of project fear and make a positive case for remaining part

:32:45.:32:51.

of a reforming European Union. It is hugely important to be a part of the

:32:52.:32:54.

largest market in the world, and to be able to influence its rules and

:32:55.:33:00.

laws. In rolling matters that the -- it matters that we can co-operate

:33:01.:33:09.

for rights. We should also forget the lessons of European history, and

:33:10.:33:12.

not turn our backs on European neighbours who need help at this

:33:13.:33:17.

time to deal with a huge challenge including migration. Mr Speaker.

:33:18.:33:26.

Public opinion in Scotland, a majority, supports membership of the

:33:27.:33:31.

European Union. Every single Scottish MP -- MP supports

:33:32.:33:37.

. Does the Prime Minister have any idea what the consequences would be

:33:38.:33:46.

of Scotland being taken out of the EU against the wish of the Scottish

:33:47.:33:52.

electorate? I want Scotland and the rest of the UK to remain within the

:33:53.:33:57.

European Union. However, if we are forced out of the EU, I am certain

:33:58.:34:02.

about public in Scotland will to read -- demand a referendum on

:34:03.:34:06.

Scottish independence and we will protect our place in Europe. First

:34:07.:34:13.

of all, I can confirm that I will make a positive case. A case based

:34:14.:34:18.

around there and being stronger, safer, and better off. This is a

:34:19.:34:22.

choice. I think that it is very important that we set out the toys,

:34:23.:34:26.

and the alternative, to the British people. This is the most important

:34:27.:34:30.

decision that people are going to make on a political issue

:34:31.:34:33.

potentially and their lifetimes. I don't want anyone to take a step

:34:34.:34:36.

into the dark without properly thinking through what the

:34:37.:34:39.

consequences are. One thing I actually agree with the honourable

:34:40.:34:43.

gentleman about, is that although Brussels and the institutions can be

:34:44.:34:47.

frustrating, we should never forget what brought this institution into

:34:48.:34:50.

being and the first place. Even at the most frustrating time of talks,

:34:51.:34:55.

you look around the table and think of how these countries fought and

:34:56.:34:59.

killed each other for so long. The dialogue that they take together is

:35:00.:35:03.

positive. In terms of the boat in Scotland, this is one UK boat. Hear,

:35:04.:35:12.

hear! -- vote. My right honourable friend has just spoken about

:35:13.:35:17.

national parliaments, democracy, and our sovereignty. In the Bloomberg

:35:18.:35:22.

speech, he made it clear that he regarded our national parliament as

:35:23.:35:26.

being the root of our democracy. Yesterday, he referred to the

:35:27.:35:30.

Aleutian of sovereignty. -- illusion of sovereignty. Will he explain and

:35:31.:35:38.

repudiate that statement and reference to the question before us

:35:39.:35:42.

in relation to our parliament and democracy in the making of our laws,

:35:43.:35:47.

which at this moment in time under the European committees act, are

:35:48.:35:51.

made by a majority vote of other countries, are introduced by it an

:35:52.:35:57.

unelected commission, and are enforced by a court of justice. This

:35:58.:36:02.

is not excepted the only way of out of that is to lead the European

:36:03.:36:08.

Union? First of all, I have huge respect for my European --

:36:09.:36:11.

honourable friend who has campaigned for many years. One thing that he

:36:12.:36:16.

will welcome is that we are allowing the British people a choice to stay

:36:17.:36:19.

in or lead the European Union. Let me confirm that yes, this parliament

:36:20.:36:24.

is sovereign. We chose to join the the European Union and we can choose

:36:25.:36:28.

to be. But me explain exactly what I meant by saying that it would be the

:36:29.:36:33.

illusion of sovereignty. Let me take one issue. We now have safeguards so

:36:34.:36:38.

that British banks, businesses, cannot be discriminated against if

:36:39.:36:43.

we state in the European Union. They can't be discriminated against

:36:44.:36:45.

because we are not in the euro. Where are we to lead, obviously we

:36:46.:36:49.

would not have that protection. They could discriminate against us, and

:36:50.:36:52.

frankly I think they would discriminate against us. Therefore,

:36:53.:37:04.

and that way, we might feel more sovereign, but it would be an

:37:05.:37:06.

illusion of sovereignty because he would not have the power to protect

:37:07.:37:09.

the businesses that protect jobs of my ability and our country. Despite

:37:10.:37:11.

assurances, it is worth saying that this referendum is about the future

:37:12.:37:17.

of our country not the future of a divided conservative party. With the

:37:18.:37:20.

Prime Minister agree with me that it is also not just about Britain's

:37:21.:37:25.

place in the European Union, but also print's place in the world.

:37:26.:37:30.

President Obama has been crystal clear that if Britain were to be the

:37:31.:37:35.

European Union, it would weaken not strengthen the special relationship.

:37:36.:37:40.

The Indians, Chinese, I'm mystified that we are even risking exit from

:37:41.:37:44.

the European Union. We agree with me that if rain in the teacher wants to

:37:45.:37:48.

stand tall in New Delhi, Beijing, Washington, and other mobile

:37:49.:37:53.

cobbles, Britain must continue to stand tall in our own European

:37:54.:37:59.

neighbourhood. I think that she he is right. We should make this

:38:00.:38:05.

decision ourselves as a sovereign nation in a sovereign people. I

:38:06.:38:08.

think that it is worth listening to our friends and listening to what

:38:09.:38:13.

they think is best for our country. I have to say all of the leaders and

:38:14.:38:17.

politicians I have backed around the world. I can't think of any of our

:38:18.:38:24.

friends, Australia, New Zealand, America, Canada. That one is to be

:38:25.:38:28.

the EU. The only person I think that might want us to leave is Vladimir

:38:29.:38:31.

Putin, and I don't think that that is someone who has asked for what

:38:32.:38:37.

the right honourable friend and colleague said about this

:38:38.:38:40.

referendum. I will make a cheeky point that we are implementing the

:38:41.:38:43.

2010 Lib Dem manifesto by holding it. Hear, hear! LAUGHTER Can I ask

:38:44.:39:01.

my right honourable friend, the Prime Minister, to explain to the

:39:02.:39:05.

House into the country exactly what way this deal returns sovereignty

:39:06.:39:15.

over any field of lawmaking to the Houses of Parliament? This deal

:39:16.:39:20.

brings back some welfare powers, immigration powers, bailout powers,

:39:21.:39:27.

but more than that, because it cards us forever out of ever closer union

:39:28.:39:32.

it means that the ratchet of the European Court taking power away

:39:33.:39:35.

from this country cannot happen in future. To those who worry, and

:39:36.:39:39.

people do worry, that if somehow if we vote to remain and, the

:39:40.:39:44.

consequence could be more action and Brussels to try and change the

:39:45.:39:47.

agreements that we have. We have a lot in this house of commons. No

:39:48.:39:51.

power can be passed from Britain to Brussels without a referendum. We

:39:52.:39:57.

have a better deal, and a special status, we have a chance to make

:39:58.:40:01.

sure that we build on what we have to protect our people. We can

:40:02.:40:05.

enhance our prosperity, and that is the we make. Mr Speaker, let me

:40:06.:40:15.

think the Prime Minister for quoting and implementing parts of the plane

:40:16.:40:22.

15 Lib Dem manifesto. I wanted to go to the big picture question, which

:40:23.:40:27.

is about how we influence things in our national interest. I want to

:40:28.:40:30.

draw the Prime Minister of the powerful and that his statement,

:40:31.:40:34.

which is this question of course by being a member of the European Union

:40:35.:40:38.

we don't always get our own way, but as he said to the right honourable

:40:39.:40:43.

member on all of the major issues, whether it is trade or climate

:40:44.:40:47.

change, or terrorism and security, he can tell us because he has been

:40:48.:40:51.

the Prime Minister what does he believe. We have more influence in

:40:52.:40:56.

the European Union or outside? Mr Speaker, surely the answer is more

:40:57.:41:00.

influence inside the European Union, at outside. That is why I

:41:01.:41:04.

passionately believe must remain in the European Union. I am grateful to

:41:05.:41:09.

the right honourable gentleman for what he says. I can't promise to

:41:10.:41:13.

implement any part of the bigger manifesto, but I am glad to have

:41:14.:41:16.

been an assistant there. I actually agree with him. The big picture is

:41:17.:41:21.

this, when it comes to getting things done in the world that can

:41:22.:41:24.

help keep people safe in our country, a bigger, better deal on

:41:25.:41:28.

climate change, do we get more because we are in the EU? Gas.

:41:29.:41:31.

Making sure that we have sanctions against Iran that work and getting a

:41:32.:41:37.

ban on their nuclear programme, to be deducted the EU and other new

:41:38.:41:41.

bodies? Yes absolutely. Making sure that we stand up to Russian

:41:42.:41:45.

aggression in Ukraine. We have been the linchpin between the European

:41:46.:41:47.

Union and the United States of America in making those ancient

:41:48.:41:51.

town. If we had been outside the European Union, we would have been

:41:52.:41:55.

waiting at the end of the fund to make out with the decisions were

:41:56.:41:57.

going to be. Instead, we were making them and them. That is how we get

:41:58.:42:06.

things done for our people. Mr Speaker, according to the website,

:42:07.:42:12.

there is a letter and peering into mile's times which has been bitten

:42:13.:42:18.

by a Chris Hopkins on behalf of organizations across the UK wishing

:42:19.:42:23.

for us to remain. Chris Hopkins is apparently a civil servant, could be

:42:24.:42:27.

Prime Minister tell us who that is, which department does he work for,

:42:28.:42:31.

and what authority does he have as a civil servant to campaign for the

:42:32.:42:37.

remaining? I can answer very simply. He is a civil servant working and

:42:38.:42:40.

number ten, and his authority comes from me. He is doing an excellent

:42:41.:42:48.

job. This is not a free-for-all. The government has a clear view. The

:42:49.:42:51.

government's view is that we should remain an informed European Union.

:42:52.:42:54.

The civil service is able to support the government and not roll. Of

:42:55.:43:00.

course, members of Parliament, members -- common members are middle

:43:01.:43:04.

to make their own decision. The Cabinet is holding back. We have a

:43:05.:43:08.

full throated view that we should put Ford in front of the British

:43:09.:43:10.

people so that they I am tempted to think -- ask the

:43:11.:43:22.

Prime Minister if bonds have more fun. -- blonds. If does he remember

:43:23.:43:32.

what the government did in 2014 about the European arrest warrant,

:43:33.:43:36.

and the conclusions that the European arrest warrant acts as a

:43:37.:43:39.

deterrent for offenders commit to this country. Katie pointed out to

:43:40.:43:44.

his pension secretary, and can he ask the home Secretary to bring the

:43:45.:43:49.

working pension secretary on all the other reasons why Britain is safer

:43:50.:43:51.

and more secure in the European Union. The European arrest warrant

:43:52.:43:58.

is a good case in point. I think that all of us who do have this

:43:59.:44:02.

concern about sovereignty have are concerned about the arrest warrant,

:44:03.:44:05.

but look at what has happened in practice. In 2005, terrorists tried

:44:06.:44:14.

to bomb our city for a second time. One of them escaped and was arrested

:44:15.:44:18.

and returned to Britain within weeks under the European arrest warrant.

:44:19.:44:21.

Before that, it could have taken years. I think that we can all see

:44:22.:44:25.

that the practical application of these changes definitely keeps us

:44:26.:44:30.

more safe. When it comes to this question of fighting terrorism a

:44:31.:44:33.

cross-border crime, obviously people are going to have different

:44:34.:44:36.

opinions. I would urge people, listen to the head of the former

:44:37.:44:41.

director of MIT. Listen to the head of euro poll. These are people who

:44:42.:44:46.

know what they speak of and are very clear. These measures help us to

:44:47.:44:52.

stay safe. Thank you Mr Speaker. Having spent the best part of recess

:44:53.:44:55.

and the Arctic circle with the Royal Marines, I am extremely conscious of

:44:56.:45:08.

the need to ensure that everyone of our serving military personnel will

:45:09.:45:11.

be able to cast their vote to leave or to remain in the forthcoming EU

:45:12.:45:15.

referendum which the Prime Minister has worked so hard to get onto the

:45:16.:45:18.

statue books for us. Can the Prime Minister please confirm that every

:45:19.:45:22.

serving member of our armed forces wherever they are in the world, will

:45:23.:45:25.

be entitled to vote and can they guarantee that they will receive

:45:26.:45:30.

their ballot papers in good time, and confirm hubby will ensure that

:45:31.:45:35.

everyone will be counted? My honourable friend clearly had a more

:45:36.:45:40.

entertaining recess that I did, but I am rather jealous. There were

:45:41.:45:44.

moments that I wish I was in the Arctic Circle, I can tell you. I

:45:45.:45:47.

believe that the arrangements are absolutely the same. As for a

:45:48.:45:56.

general election. We have for months until the referendum, there is

:45:57.:45:58.

plenty of time to put in place the arrangements that she seeks. I pay

:45:59.:46:04.

credits to be Prime Minister for delivering a reference to the

:46:05.:46:07.

British people. I will remember the time that he came to the -- this

:46:08.:46:12.

house and argue to -- but the referendum. He will know that we are

:46:13.:46:19.

extremely disappointed in these benches that we don't have as a

:46:20.:46:22.

result of this deal control over our sovereignty over our borders, or our

:46:23.:46:28.

finances. He had said to in his statement, and I quote, that is

:46:29.:46:31.

simply not enough for those in the meat side to say that it will be all

:46:32.:46:35.

right and that we will work it out. He wants a definite facts. On the of

:46:36.:46:40.

migrants coming to Britain in the United Kingdom, when will they first

:46:41.:46:46.

begin to be eligible for some of the darker benefits for quick. What we

:46:47.:46:56.

have is a phased approach so that over four years they get access to

:46:57.:47:00.

benefits. No access to benefits to start with, and full access only

:47:01.:47:04.

after four years. That is a huge advance. If I compare that to a lack

:47:05.:47:08.

of certainty that we are being offered for people who want to

:47:09.:47:11.

leave, who can't tell us whether they favour a model like Norway or

:47:12.:47:16.

Switzerland, where if they want a trade deal like Canada, or if

:47:17.:47:22.

someone to reclaim a purely WTO position. We need to know the answer

:47:23.:47:25.

to that, because frankly it is only one me know that that people can

:47:26.:47:29.

make a proper judgement about the security of staying in any dangers

:47:30.:47:38.

of getting out. Last week's decision requires it to be changed to be

:47:39.:47:41.

irreversible and legally binding. When will the ratification procedure

:47:42.:47:47.

began? I am afraid that my right honourable friend is not right. It

:47:48.:47:51.

is already legally binding and universal because this is the

:47:52.:47:54.

decision of 28 governments to reach a legally binding decision that is

:47:55.:47:58.

deposited as a legal document at the UN. This can only be reversed if all

:47:59.:48:04.

28 members, including the UK, were to come to a different decision. The

:48:05.:48:08.

document sets out very clearly that into specific areas, the changes

:48:09.:48:13.

that we need to the treaty on closer union and safeguards for businesses

:48:14.:48:16.

and countries outside the euro zone, will be put into the treaty as well.

:48:17.:48:23.

The mayor of London has been touted of the leader of the lease campaigns

:48:24.:48:30.

said yesterday that the burden will be able to negotiate a large number

:48:31.:48:35.

of shady deals at great speed because we used to run the against

:48:36.:48:43.

Empire and the world. Will he invite the Mayor to wake up to the 21st

:48:44.:48:47.

century in which the European economy is six times longer than

:48:48.:48:52.

endure -- took seven years to get Canada to get a trade deal, and with

:48:53.:48:57.

so much uncertainty in the world's economy it would be deeply disrupted

:48:58.:49:02.

to increase the risk for British exporters, British manufacturers,

:49:03.:49:08.

and British shops? Let me say, where I share the frustration of many of

:49:09.:49:11.

those who are questioning whether B should stay in a separate Britain

:49:12.:49:15.

does need trade deals to be signed rapidly. We do find it frustrating

:49:16.:49:20.

that Europe is not moving faster. The Korean free trade agreement has

:49:21.:49:24.

been excellent, and about to push ahead with Japan, Canada, and

:49:25.:49:28.

America, and China. Because of this document all of the single more

:49:29.:49:31.

likely. Where I think that the right honourable lady has a good point is

:49:32.:49:41.

this. You can't sign trade deals with other countries until you have

:49:42.:49:43.

determined the nature of your relationship with the EU from the

:49:44.:49:45.

outside. That would take at least two years, and then you have to

:49:46.:49:48.

think how long does it take to sign trade deals? The Canada deal is in

:49:49.:49:54.

its seventh year, and it is still not put in place. I worry that this

:49:55.:49:58.

is a recipe for uncertainty and risk. Business is literally would

:49:59.:50:02.

not know what the arrangements were for year after year, and British

:50:03.:50:05.

business and jobs, and our country would suffer as a result. I have

:50:06.:50:13.

pamphlets calling for us to address our role in by a referendum on art

:50:14.:50:18.

EU membership may have escaped the Prime minister's attention. He will

:50:19.:50:23.

understand why I am absolutely delighted that he is now provided us

:50:24.:50:29.

an opportunity to resolve this question for a generation. Does he

:50:30.:50:35.

agree with me that if the country votes to remain we must positively

:50:36.:50:38.

commit to the institutions of the European Union? To best ensure its

:50:39.:50:45.

success and to move on from the growth -- grudging tone that has

:50:46.:50:50.

dominated our discourse. Equally, the establishment that he leads must

:50:51.:50:54.

positively engaged with a potential decision to lead -- leave and

:50:55.:50:58.

undertake reasonable contingency planning now. Let me make a couple

:50:59.:51:05.

of points to my honourable friend. First of all, one of the things of

:51:06.:51:09.

this renegotiation does is that it does address some of the principal

:51:10.:51:13.

grudges, that I think that this country has rightly had. Too much of

:51:14.:51:17.

a single currency club, political union, too much in terms of

:51:18.:51:21.

migration and a lack of respect for welfare system. Not enough

:51:22.:51:24.

competitiveness and removing bureaucracy. Having dealt with some

:51:25.:51:28.

of these grudges, it may, yes, P possible make sure that we get more

:51:29.:51:32.

things done that says -- sued us. I also agree that something with them

:51:33.:51:38.

-- agree with the Mayor of London said that we have high-quality

:51:39.:51:42.

British officials at every part of this organizations that we can help

:51:43.:51:46.

to drive the agenda. He is right. This should settle this issue for

:51:47.:51:51.

generation. He is also right that we will be publishing the alternatives

:51:52.:51:54.

to membership so that people can see what they are, and also people can

:51:55.:51:59.

see that there are plans that can be made. The Prime Minister has said

:52:00.:52:05.

that there has been great to perform grant in the renegotiation, why then

:52:06.:52:11.

did the French president say the European Union has not granted the

:52:12.:52:13.

United Kingdom any special dispositions from its rules in a

:52:14.:52:19.

deal struck? He went on to say that the Prime Minister said that the

:52:20.:52:22.

city of London when I have special status compared to Europe other

:52:23.:52:26.

stock exchanges? Why is this is a difference between what the French

:52:27.:52:29.

president is saying and what the Prime Minister is an? What I would

:52:30.:52:33.

say is that the French Foreign Minister said that the agreement

:52:34.:52:38.

with the British is a recognition that there is a differentiated

:52:39.:52:43.

Europe. I have Artie quantity so backend, Hungarian prime ministers,

:52:44.:52:48.

and the former tying commissioner. Also, Fran ois Hollande said this,

:52:49.:52:53.

we have recognised British position not in singing, not in the former

:52:54.:52:55.

tying commissioner. Also, Fran ois Hollande said this, we have

:52:56.:52:57.

recognised British position not in singing, not in a euro zone. She

:52:58.:53:03.

does not -- but it has Britain has a special status in Europe. While the

:53:04.:53:07.

referendum decision is a matter for the British people, as

:53:08.:53:16.

does the Prime Minister recognised concern from the White House,

:53:17.:53:20.

Pentagon, State Department, and international players that have

:53:21.:53:27.

already Bedminster macro mentioned. That's ready to stand together in an

:53:28.:53:33.

unsafe world? I my honourable friend Nixon point. I don't think

:53:34.:53:39.

I think that it is based on the fact that they believe that Britain will

:53:40.:53:47.

be a stronger partner, more able to get things done, more able to bend

:53:48.:53:51.

at the will of other countries that are in America's directions when it

:53:52.:53:54.

comes to solving great prices. If you ask yourself how do we need is

:53:55.:53:59.

to reduce pirate attacks off Somalia, how would go to try to fix

:54:00.:54:04.

the problems of Libya's border. Yes, we can act unilaterally, and there

:54:05.:54:08.

are valuable partnerships and Nato, but these EU producers are worth a

:54:09.:54:15.

lot to. The views that the pound has slipped to its lowest level in seven

:54:16.:54:19.

years on the news that the honourable member has joined the

:54:20.:54:22.

league campaign, are the just getting a glimpse of the major

:54:23.:54:26.

economic upheaval that could follow if we leave the European Union? Is

:54:27.:54:33.

it's not a timely reminder that the long-term best interest of our

:54:34.:54:36.

country should come ahead of party politicking or personal ambition?

:54:37.:54:41.

What I would say to the right honourable gentleman is that I think

:54:42.:54:44.

that it is important that we looked at in detail the full economic

:54:45.:54:48.

impact of our staying in the EU were choosing to leave the EU. We will be

:54:49.:54:53.

setting out that approach in the weeks and months to come so that

:54:54.:54:57.

people can see what the dangers are, but the risks are, and also at the

:54:58.:55:04.

cases. Don't be, and agriculture, fishing, and energy policies do

:55:05.:55:12.

damage to domestic producers and the... What can we do about these

:55:13.:55:18.

unfairness is if we stay in the European Union? We have made a lot

:55:19.:55:26.

of progress in recent years. We have made big reforms to the common

:55:27.:55:30.

fisheries policy is. I would suggest, I know that he studies

:55:31.:55:34.

these things very closely, of course why we have a deficit with the EU on

:55:35.:55:40.

goods, we have a substantial surplus when it comes to services. We have

:55:41.:55:44.

to think about the future, and how we safeguard those services as well

:55:45.:55:48.

as making sure that opposition and the single market is open. Opening

:55:49.:55:55.

up the EU market in areas like energy and digital services could

:55:56.:55:59.

create hundreds of thousands of jobs in the future. The Prime Minister

:56:00.:56:04.

agree that remaining a part of the EU will give the UK a strong voice

:56:05.:56:09.

in making sure that the completion of that single market happens, and

:56:10.:56:12.

that the best deal for British businesses and jobs? I think that

:56:13.:56:16.

the honourable me lady makes an important part -- point. The

:56:17.:56:22.

declaration on I think that this is an important

:56:23.:56:33.

point. If we work there, not only with the EU continue to exist and

:56:34.:56:37.

have a big impact on our lives, it would probably head and a very

:56:38.:56:40.

different and more protectionist direction. That would actually

:56:41.:56:44.

affect us. And in many ways quite badly. Thank you Mr Speaker. My

:56:45.:56:49.

right honourable friend will know that have been deluged with advice.

:56:50.:56:55.

On the subject of an ever closer union, can he give us a concrete

:56:56.:56:59.

example of a single easy case that will provide a different outcome if

:57:00.:57:02.

the measures that he agreed last week had been agreed at the time?

:57:03.:57:07.

The ever closer union has been mentioned in a series of judgement

:57:08.:57:10.

by the European Court of Justice. There are two things that we have

:57:11.:57:15.

agreed that I think we'll have an impact. Obviously, the most

:57:16.:57:18.

eye-catching is the fact, and I quote from paragraph one on page

:57:19.:57:23.

ten, is that the substance of these agreements will be incorporated in

:57:24.:57:26.

the treaties and the time of his next position. It will make clear

:57:27.:57:29.

that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United

:57:30.:57:33.

Kingdom. That is a call-back for us, but in many ways it is as

:57:34.:57:36.

significant and something that many other countries do not want is the

:57:37.:57:40.

next paragraph that says the references in the treaty and the

:57:41.:57:44.

preambles are creating an ever closer union, do not offer a legal

:57:45.:57:49.

basis for extending the scope of any provision of the treaties or other

:57:50.:57:53.

EU secondary legislation. This redefinition of ever closer union I

:57:54.:57:58.

think is really quite a fundamental change to the way that this

:57:59.:58:01.

organisation has worked. One way to think of it is that there have been

:58:02.:58:05.

two threats to our sovereignty, one from treaty change passing powers

:58:06.:58:09.

for Britain to Brussels, that can't happen now because of our block. The

:58:10.:58:13.

second one is using terms like the ever closer union to make sure that

:58:14.:58:17.

the EU grows its powers. It can't be done now that we have the strength.

:58:18.:58:21.

One of the reason why this deal took whatever it was this because not

:58:22.:58:28.

everybody likes us. It is not meaningless words, it is worth that

:58:29.:58:30.

mean something and matter, and make a difference.

:58:31.:58:36.

The Prime Minister was elected the 37% of the ball. Which means that

:58:37.:58:42.

even a half these people are to vote in, then this referendum can only be

:58:43.:58:46.

one of the faces of people have voted Labour mass and D,... There

:58:47.:58:52.

isn't a reasonable position that these people will be more interested

:58:53.:58:57.

in the of the case of the case for Europe, then the factual arguments

:58:58.:59:01.

of Conservative Party, entertaining though they are. What is the promise

:59:02.:59:05.

of going to put forth that forth that case, that part of the promise

:59:06.:59:08.

of going to put forth that case, that positive case for Europe? --

:59:09.:59:11.

one Prime Minister. I do not want to upset him because I'm hoping is

:59:12.:59:16.

going to be supportive. I will say in the speech that I have made

:59:17.:59:20.

today, I have sent out a positive case. It is the case of someone who

:59:21.:59:25.

is Euro sceptical in the genuine sense, I am sceptical about all

:59:26.:59:29.

organisations. All engagement. We should always question whether

:59:30.:59:36.

organisations work for us and be doubtful about these things. That is

:59:37.:59:40.

what is being sceptical means. I come at this from someone who had

:59:41.:59:45.

their doubts about Brussels and the EU, but I have a clear eyed about

:59:46.:59:48.

what is best for Britain. If others want to argue this from a more

:59:49.:59:54.

positive stance about the nature of the EU, fine. Go for it. It is up to

:59:55.:59:58.

everyone to make their own case. I will make my case in a clear

:59:59.:00:04.

determination of what is in Britain's interest. I think I did

:00:05.:00:14.

that today. Can he tell the House, and his estimations, by how much the

:00:15.:00:19.

welfare changes will reduce immigration for the EU in the coming

:00:20.:00:23.

years could tell anybody looks at this, and nose at the moment you can

:00:24.:00:28.

come from the EU and get up to ?10,000 in and work welfare

:00:29.:00:31.

benefits, and the pressure, knows that that is a big incentive to come

:00:32.:00:36.

to Britain. Many people said we would never be able to get changes

:00:37.:00:40.

to in work benefits, and we have got those changes. If we pass this

:00:41.:00:45.

legislation, were they going to see in 2017 a seven-year period, up to

:00:46.:00:51.

2024 will be restricting these welfare claims. That plus all the

:00:52.:00:55.

changes that the Home Secretary has disappeared, and many cases

:00:56.:00:58.

reversing the CJ judgement. They actually restored to our country

:00:59.:01:02.

powers over welfare, powers over immigration Baek a real difference.

:01:03.:01:11.

Best I can. We also support for the reform and will campaign

:01:12.:01:15.

accordingly. If you're to live, what would happen to mention such as

:01:16.:01:19.

convergent funding which is provided by the amounts of money for poor

:01:20.:01:25.

areas? I think the short answer is if we were to leave the EU, and we

:01:26.:01:29.

would not be able to get those funds, which I made a big difference

:01:30.:01:33.

in parts of Wales, and parts of England. In other parts of our

:01:34.:01:40.

country. I also think, I'm someone who was a kid EU but it out and we

:01:41.:01:44.

achieved that historic decision to cut it, but they wish to befriend

:01:45.:01:47.

that some of the work that the has done, in poor countries and other

:01:48.:01:53.

parts of the EU, is actually have economies to grow. They are

:01:54.:01:57.

customers of ours, and so what is Bulgaria, Romania, or Greece or

:01:58.:02:00.

whatever, the economic development is in our interests. -- the economic

:02:01.:02:09.

development. In January, academic bill to try and protect our children

:02:10.:02:14.

from portable... I pulled the bill this month after discussions, their

:02:15.:02:21.

official public this is that piece of legislation. Thousands of

:02:22.:02:24.

directors saw rescued out from Brussels, every gear, that this

:02:25.:02:28.

government has to comply with. Therefore I will be built. We cannot

:02:29.:02:32.

even protect our own children on something as fundamental as this

:02:33.:02:34.

because we do not have the control without the permission of Brussels.

:02:35.:02:41.

I'll look carefully at the case. I know the state can be frustrated,

:02:42.:02:46.

and every of foam filled miniature and mattresses, we've taken steps

:02:47.:02:52.

over and above what other countries are doing, which has kept our own

:02:53.:02:56.

people safer. The other thing I would say is there are a lot of

:02:57.:02:59.

different figures going around about this. And she looks in the library,

:03:00.:03:04.

borrow from being the topic this, it is much more like 15% of loans that

:03:05.:03:11.

come to us from this direction. -- loss. And I commend the parameter

:03:12.:03:17.

his statement and congratulate him on the success of persuading his EU

:03:18.:03:20.

counterpart is signed up for renegotiation. Will he accept gold

:03:21.:03:29.

renegotiations may have been successful, it is not central to how

:03:30.:03:33.

most people make up their minds? When we belong to a European single

:03:34.:03:37.

market, that is where a digg account figure to this country, is a better

:03:38.:03:43.

in or out? What wear basic facing huge insecurities and badges, I

:03:44.:03:46.

would bet off alongside our friends or outside on our own? And we face

:03:47.:03:52.

huge challenges like climate change and the refugee crisis, I would go

:03:53.:03:57.

working with others or isolated on their own? Will he join with me in

:03:58.:04:00.

our shared ambition for a Britannic Europe and for the pond ambition

:04:01.:04:10.

behind him was what -- blonde. . Renegotiation was aimed at dealing

:04:11.:04:13.

with some of the legitimate businesses that we have had in the

:04:14.:04:18.

UK for many years about the way it was the EU work. We thought it was

:04:19.:04:22.

too much of a single currency club, too much political giving, kind is

:04:23.:04:27.

about competitiveness and not enough production in terms of welfare and

:04:28.:04:31.

immigration. I believe this renegotiation and agreement goes

:04:32.:04:34.

long way to lose dealing with each of those problems. Now the time for

:04:35.:04:39.

the even bigger argument about the future of our country and what sort

:04:40.:04:43.

of country we want to live in poor heart cells, children, and grilled

:04:44.:04:48.

children. Of the points that he makes the printer being shown and

:04:49.:04:51.

wealth, getting things done, I'll try to our membership with Nato

:04:52.:04:56.

matters, our relationship with the UN, and our relationship with the EU

:04:57.:05:00.

gives a force of power to get things done. These fences are rightly proud

:05:01.:05:09.

of our record in the job in unemployment, the... -- these pages.

:05:10.:05:17.

Production in our deficit. During his many meetings, did he find

:05:18.:05:23.

anybody, even a single person, am I suggest we will get better terms on

:05:24.:05:28.

our exit to achieve even better outside the cure Community? --

:05:29.:05:36.

European Community. I think there is goodwill towards Britain, because of

:05:37.:05:40.

the contribution we make to the EU. There is understanding other

:05:41.:05:44.

problems or difficulties that we have had. Therefore, with a huge of

:05:45.:05:49.

the pharmacy and travel and meetings, it has been possible to

:05:50.:05:56.

get a good agreement. I do not believe if we were to take over the

:05:57.:06:01.

table of an eye for a second one, I don't think it is morally feasible.

:06:02.:06:10.

, work on the equalization is possible, which discriminated

:06:11.:06:16.

unfairly the British citizens. -- spouse rules. Can ask him to

:06:17.:06:19.

recommend the work of the Minister for John? I would manage to get on

:06:20.:06:23.

the job, he has done six. He still retained his sanity. Almost. On the

:06:24.:06:32.

other big issue, the migration crisis, the British head of your

:06:33.:06:38.

poll said today that there were 5000 GIs were now within the European

:06:39.:06:42.

Union area. Many have come from the external border of the EU. Whether

:06:43.:06:47.

this amount has been given to Greece and Italy in particular is tried

:06:48.:06:53.

until -- tried to do with protecting the border? Identifies remarks about

:06:54.:07:03.

the Europe minister. His eyes were set for a minute there. But he has

:07:04.:07:06.

been done the job for six years as the nation was well. The point about

:07:07.:07:13.

spousal visas as important, for many years, we are given a dismayed to be

:07:14.:07:17.

sorted out and for many years to EU stood back, if you want the

:07:18.:07:21.

collectibles, change her own rules and here we have managed to do that.

:07:22.:07:27.

In terms of the help that were given to Italy and Greece, the discussions

:07:28.:07:32.

and Brussels were very intense because the numbers really do have

:07:33.:07:36.

to be reduced radically and that is why I strongly support and Britain

:07:37.:07:43.

will contribute to the maritime operation the last song Nato support

:07:44.:07:46.

as well as EU support. To try and bring together Greece and Turkey

:07:47.:07:51.

with a comma information picture, common intelligence what is

:07:52.:07:55.

happening. These, banks operating in the area. Without that, there will

:07:56.:07:59.

not be the right chance of getting the situation under control. For

:08:00.:08:05.

decades, British ministers who had involvement with Europe at, to

:08:06.:08:12.

exaggerate to affluence we bring and conceal our inability to achieve

:08:13.:08:19.

British interests. Is that why it took freedom of information request

:08:20.:08:21.

to established over the last two decades, Britain has voted against

:08:22.:08:28.

72 measures in the European Council? And has been defeated 72 times, and

:08:29.:08:34.

the patient of the accelerating? It would make the mistake to take the

:08:35.:08:43.

risk of remaining in the EU, how many defeats that the Prime Minister

:08:44.:08:48.

is suspect in the next two decades? The frustrations and challenges of

:08:49.:08:57.

being a member of his organisation, there are challenges. The research

:08:58.:09:05.

that I have seen his deep analysis of whether a country that its

:09:06.:09:10.

position, and shows that Britain does in 90% of cases, which even I

:09:11.:09:15.

think operates the Germans. I did for myself what we were hard we can

:09:16.:09:19.

get things done. -- I have seen for myself. If we are outside the single

:09:20.:09:27.

market, the same countries, without us, will write the rules. We will

:09:28.:09:30.

then have to comply with them, when we show that the government would

:09:31.:09:35.

have no say over what they are. That to me is the illusions of

:09:36.:09:37.

sovereignty rather than real sovereignty. I'll accept the

:09:38.:09:45.

symbolism of removing the phrase ever closer union. I do think the

:09:46.:09:51.

Prime Minister opposes House to give at least one two examples of where

:09:52.:09:59.

the sole legal basis for a decision. I am happy to read to her, but it

:10:00.:10:03.

has been used in a series of cases before us. That's happy to write to

:10:04.:10:14.

her. On the question of Article 50, cannot first one out that it did not

:10:15.:10:20.

exist in the treatise until the Lisbon Treaty which my friend used

:10:21.:10:25.

to oppose and not he agrees with. Can I point out there are many ways

:10:26.:10:29.

of leading the European gigging, that might article 50. Date that the

:10:30.:10:35.

power to bind himself and to the Article 50 from work, can he give it

:10:36.:10:39.

some thought rather than committed himself to a policy that he does not

:10:40.:10:43.

support? The point I would make to him is that like it or like it not,

:10:44.:10:50.

I don't particularly like it, but the Treaty of the European and you

:10:51.:10:53.

can set style of the way that you leave. It is called article 50. --

:10:54.:10:58.

European Union. I think it should read it. I find it odd that if you

:10:59.:11:03.

want to leave, leave. If you want to stay, stay. But the idea of going to

:11:04.:11:08.

leave the try and half day, I don't think the British public will

:11:09.:11:10.

understand it, I don't think our European partners would understand,

:11:11.:11:14.

I'm at a loss to understand it. I thought we wanted a referendum to

:11:15.:11:21.

make a choice. Posted by Minister think that President Clinton would

:11:22.:11:28.

drop the secret... -- President Putin, would he rather see Bridget

:11:29.:11:33.

Breakaway for the EU and to seek your potentially break apart? I

:11:34.:11:40.

think it is true that tournament presented like to see disunity in

:11:41.:11:45.

the West. -- Vladimir Putin. Whether it is about actions of Sarah

:11:46.:11:50.

Corporation conduct another issue. There's no in my mind -- doubt in my

:11:51.:11:58.

mind, that the allies that there is between the Baltic states, Poland,

:11:59.:12:03.

who see it first-hand the problems being created by Putin, and

:12:04.:12:07.

countries like Britain is always in my view should stand up to

:12:08.:12:11.

aggression. But that a life together with the French and Germans, and has

:12:12.:12:16.

made your's stronger and if we were not there, I don't think you can

:12:17.:12:19.

guarantee that would be the case. I do not believe that is an

:12:20.:12:25.

overstepping of the position. In October, Lord Rove said nothing is

:12:26.:12:31.

going to happen and become how to cure in the first five years

:12:32.:12:36.

probably. There will be no change. I hope my friend finds that ritual

:12:37.:12:40.

from the head of the campaign to stay in. What he agree that it is

:12:41.:12:43.

inevitable after the Vote Leave, there will be a period of informal

:12:44.:12:46.

discussions before the formal process is driven? I have to say I

:12:47.:12:51.

have great respect for my Honorable friend who is leading a campaign

:12:52.:12:56.

with great vim and vigour and passion. But surely if you want

:12:57.:13:00.

Britain to leave the EU, you want things to change, rather than not

:13:01.:13:06.

change. The truth is that section, article 50 is the only way to leave

:13:07.:13:09.

and what it says is that if you spend two years negotiating your

:13:10.:13:15.

status outside of the EU, and that they cannot be agreed, at the end of

:13:16.:13:21.

the figures, you leave. That is all of the 27 members agree to extend.

:13:22.:13:26.

That's unless. If you do not have a deal, he don't know what your

:13:27.:13:28.

relationship is with a single market, with a 50 days countries

:13:29.:13:33.

covered by the Trader Joe's, or very much. My argument is that do not

:13:34.:13:39.

take that risk. Stay in a before European Union. But the delayed

:13:40.:13:42.

campaign will have to do is explain what it is that you want was to

:13:43.:13:51.

left. -- the lead campaign. Cannot they be Prime Minister for his

:13:52.:13:55.

detailed statement. Does he accept that with Arlen and -- Ireland

:13:56.:14:04.

connected, to a UK exit of the European you can would have

:14:05.:14:07.

replications for Ireland, North or South. There may be some initial

:14:08.:14:15.

financial savings for the UK, but huge losses are likely to follow. We

:14:16.:14:21.

see them impact today are sterling. Yeah, we know that the financial

:14:22.:14:26.

impact would be negative and slow. Mr Speaker, with recent polls

:14:27.:14:31.

suggesting that 75% of people in Northern Ireland want to stay in the

:14:32.:14:35.

EU, as the Prime Minister agree with me that a UK exit from the EU will

:14:36.:14:39.

have detrimental impact on Northern Ireland's economy and is one peace

:14:40.:14:42.

process? In terms of Northern Ireland,

:14:43.:15:01.

everybody and other islands have a vote, every vote counted. I would

:15:02.:15:05.

urge people to exercise their democratic right. I look forward to

:15:06.:15:08.

going to another island as part of the campaign to talk directly to

:15:09.:15:13.

people why I believe we should stay. And I listened that some people

:15:14.:15:18.

believe that our European neighbours want to do is down at every turn, is

:15:19.:15:23.

a credible to suppose that the selfsame people, if we were to

:15:24.:15:28.

leave, could believe that our phone partners, would follow themselves to

:15:29.:15:32.

give us free access to the single market among which is the vital

:15:33.:15:36.

foundation for our business and industry to trek across the world?

:15:37.:15:45.

-- trade across. I feel that very deeply, because having time to build

:15:46.:15:49.

up the good will for a special status for breaded, within the EU

:15:50.:15:52.

which we have achieved, I do not believe that will would be dead...

:15:53.:16:04.

-- be there. The option of that risk is to stay in the reform EU rather

:16:05.:16:10.

than to take the leap in the dark. Have the Prime Minister Alize the

:16:11.:16:18.

grave consequences for the UK -- outlined the grave, but perhaps

:16:19.:16:21.

reflect on the wisdom of the leadership decisions that led us to

:16:22.:16:25.

be facing those consequences in a few months' time. Besides I want to

:16:26.:16:31.

leave hapless sovereignty and control at the heart of the

:16:32.:16:34.

arguments. That's the size. Does he agree with me that it a position

:16:35.:16:41.

where we are a decision-maker at the timetable, will be moving from

:16:42.:16:46.

position of being a rule-making to a protected and that is not

:16:47.:16:49.

sovereignty, it is not controlled, and it is not the best future for

:16:50.:16:55.

the United Kingdom? I do not agree with what the gentleman said at the

:16:56.:17:00.

first part. I think it is time for a referendum. I think we had too many

:17:01.:17:05.

traders passing through this house, where there was no referendum.

:17:06.:17:09.

Whether it was more strict under the Conservatives or Lisbon, under

:17:10.:17:14.

labor. I think that sack People's faith and our democracy and our

:17:15.:17:17.

accountability. I remember the moment when Tony Blair stood here

:17:18.:17:22.

and said let that of the joint and all the rest and without a

:17:23.:17:26.

referendum is coming. Then it was taken away. It is right to have this

:17:27.:17:29.

referendum and we should not be frightened of asking the people

:17:30.:17:32.

interested the people, but I agree with him that if you want to have to

:17:33.:17:37.

question how it would have greater control, greater influence, it is by

:17:38.:17:40.

being in there helping to make the rules, rather than outside simply

:17:41.:17:46.

taking the rules. Can congratulate the Prime Minister for securing a

:17:47.:17:50.

written the special status that he talked about earlier? Does he agree

:17:51.:17:55.

with me, with the debate so far is that those who want leave your are

:17:56.:18:00.

completely unable to agree on an alternative arrangement for breaded

:18:01.:18:04.

and the EU, that we get the same sort of economic benefits that his

:18:05.:18:13.

negotiation skills? What today's discussions have revealed not only

:18:14.:18:18.

that there is no agreement about what Britain by a future looks like

:18:19.:18:23.

outside of the EU, but there is an agreement about whether we really

:18:24.:18:28.

should leave, some that people wanted to both league in over a

:18:29.:18:31.

different bill. That's not an agreement about how we should leave.

:18:32.:18:35.

What the Article 50, or some other process that can be followed.

:18:36.:18:39.

Unclear, the only way I leave. What the Article 50, or some other

:18:40.:18:41.

process that can be follow. Unclear, the only way of event is to article

:18:42.:18:44.

50. There is no second renegotiation, second referendum,

:18:45.:18:50.

the torch is in or mean. -- the choice is in or out. Can the Prime

:18:51.:18:57.

Minister tell us beyond the areas which are specifically addressed in

:18:58.:19:01.

the deal agreed last week, and which ways his government plans have been

:19:02.:19:07.

constrained by European legislation? There's no doubt that we do face

:19:08.:19:12.

concerns because the way the single market works is a common set of rows

:19:13.:19:16.

that has to be agreed. As it's been said, was and I was cannot wait.

:19:17.:19:21.

That's a common set up rules. There are occasions where we lose a vote,

:19:22.:19:29.

and we are concerned by EU regulation and legislation. The

:19:30.:19:32.

question that they would be to put in a very hard-headed politics and

:19:33.:19:38.

if you are outside, does that give you the full control that you seek?

:19:39.:19:43.

Does not produce up to trade with Europe and accepted rules, don't

:19:44.:19:45.

think I've done is remove yourself from the conversation and take away

:19:46.:19:52.

your vote. Common sense that this will set up the issue of her

:19:53.:19:57.

generation. I am blessed with five grandchildren. I believe it is in

:19:58.:20:00.

their blessed interest that I should be voted to remain within the EU.

:20:01.:20:05.

That's part of. There is another generation that is some concern.

:20:06.:20:11.

Thousands of people are paid UK taxes, an excellent insurance over

:20:12.:20:15.

the years. They are now living in other parts of Europe. My right

:20:16.:20:19.

honourable friend knows that I represent the interests of the

:20:20.:20:23.

people. They're very frightened, and can he tell them what will happen if

:20:24.:20:31.

we leave the European Union? I am grateful that he has decided to

:20:32.:20:34.

support the case for remaining in the EU. I think he raises an

:20:35.:20:38.

important point. We often look at free Will Win in terms of people's

:20:39.:20:42.

decisions to come here. We do also need to think about the many British

:20:43.:20:46.

people would have chosen to work, live, retire and other parts of the

:20:47.:20:50.

EU. The short answer to this question is that I can tell the

:20:51.:20:54.

window be like if the state. But I cannot be absolutely certain if we

:20:55.:20:58.

leave. It would depend on a complex and difficult glaciation cannot be

:20:59.:21:02.

there be a lot of uncertainty. I would urge other people or the right

:21:03.:21:05.

to vote to make that exercise that right and we should think about

:21:06.:21:10.

people in Gibraltar, who are all applicable in this referendum.

:21:11.:21:13.

That's able to vote. To speak plainly about what he

:21:14.:21:24.

believes is right for our country. As it develops the argument, when

:21:25.:21:30.

the bear and mind that nine American people voted Labour and general

:21:31.:21:35.

election? And the sympathies and values don't actually live with his

:21:36.:21:38.

party and a need to develop a conversation with them as well. I

:21:39.:21:46.

take on his point. This is not a party political issue. This is not

:21:47.:21:52.

something for all people, all voters to get involved in. They might vote

:21:53.:21:55.

conservative and a general election, but decide to vote in, or out, and

:21:56.:21:59.

dinner with labor a liberal Democrat. -- ditto. This should be

:22:00.:22:06.

added to the -- giant democratic society and accountability. We are

:22:07.:22:09.

asking question about something, this is a new sovereign decision by

:22:10.:22:16.

the British people. That huge sovereign decision. I would say to

:22:17.:22:20.

Labour voters to decide what you think that government, that rule, or

:22:21.:22:25.

that law. Think about the future of your country, and think about the

:22:26.:22:27.

big picture and then make the choice. I am always nice. The Prime

:22:28.:22:36.

Minister said that crime should be at the forefront of our thoughts

:22:37.:22:39.

when we are putting in the referendum. And the Prime Minister

:22:40.:22:43.

tell us how many crimes were committed in the UK by EU nationals

:22:44.:22:51.

in the given for free movement of people came into effect, and how

:22:52.:22:55.

many were committed by the EU nationals last year, and how many of

:22:56.:23:00.

the EU nationals were imbued in the UK prison system before free but

:23:01.:23:03.

when of people came into operation and how many there are now? I'm sure

:23:04.:23:09.

he has that information. Debbie has not got it, perhaps he can write to

:23:10.:23:12.

me with the information. That's if he doesn't have it. I do not have

:23:13.:23:17.

all the figures, but I can say because of a very harboured by the

:23:18.:23:21.

Home Secretary, will be able to Barbara, and so, too better. That

:23:22.:23:27.

hardware. We are solving problems that the EasyJet has put another

:23:28.:23:32.

way. As for prisoners, the prisoner transfer agreement that was

:23:33.:23:37.

negotiated will mean that we can get for prisoners out of our prisons and

:23:38.:23:41.

into the jails. Outside of the EU, they'll be far more difficult to

:23:42.:23:50.

achieve. -- that will be. I don't remember who was selected the

:23:51.:23:55.

European Parliament in 1979. -- I think I was the only member. Without

:23:56.:24:08.

a lot more sense than itself. We were on opposite sides. I was in

:24:09.:24:15.

favour of a gift membership, his father was in favour of membership.

:24:16.:24:20.

-- against membership. I changed my mind. At the two gears in the

:24:21.:24:25.

European Parliament, I saw the benefits. -- after two years. We're

:24:26.:24:35.

talking about Senate. -- Senate. Were talking about restructuring the

:24:36.:24:42.

social effect. And people work in the auto industry. I think

:24:43.:24:47.

anonymously from working with people and other nationalities, the hope is

:24:48.:24:53.

to emphasise again and again the importance of internationalism. I

:24:54.:25:00.

think it for her honesty. -- bank. I remember campaigning... Head be

:25:01.:25:19.

sitting here and we would have been able to hear from him and for the

:25:20.:25:25.

Maryland. That she would be. -- Mayor of London. Why does the Prime

:25:26.:25:34.

Minister Bank on so much? -- the bank on? So much about these

:25:35.:25:41.

European migration, after the polls have a wonderful record of, care and

:25:42.:25:48.

offer benefits. As a much more worried that Mickens, born an

:25:49.:25:54.

integer from North Africa and the Middle East that the diamonds have

:25:55.:25:57.

any idea what proportion of these people were exercise their right to

:25:58.:26:01.

come here and once they get the German passports? If we remain in,

:26:02.:26:05.

the as useful as a Macedonian strain to stop them. -- strain to stop. I

:26:06.:26:14.

promised to go on for the next four months, and to go on considerably

:26:15.:26:20.

less. I think he makes a good point. We have the advantage of being

:26:21.:26:24.

outside second, so that foreign nationals, to other countries don't

:26:25.:26:30.

have the automatic access to the UK. But he stopped coming in. As what

:26:31.:26:33.

would you European citizens who we think are ever of the country. The

:26:34.:26:38.

factual answer to this question is if you look at refugees and others

:26:39.:26:44.

who have arrived in Germany, after ten years, only around 242% have

:26:45.:26:49.

German citizenship. The evidence to date is there is no huge risk of

:26:50.:27:00.

early to the table. -- 2.2 oppression. The more likely to have

:27:01.:27:04.

are involved to try and stop the flow question the flow of migrants

:27:05.:27:07.

in the first place and would have ingrained now. With this is the lead

:27:08.:27:13.

operation between Greece and Italy is partly because of the UK

:27:14.:27:18.

intervention into this debate. Taken by the French, with the times,

:27:19.:27:21.

because around the table would get things done. Thus the Prime Minister

:27:22.:27:28.

agreed with me that the claim that staying with the European you can

:27:29.:27:32.

would make an attack on our shores more likely, is deeply irresponsible

:27:33.:27:35.

and factually wrong? The Prime Minister has said in a

:27:36.:32:54.

statement that we are to make a final decision. So the one sentence

:32:55.:32:59.

of the statement I agree with a final decision to be made in June as

:33:00.:33:05.

to whether we stay with the valve body on whether we leave and make

:33:06.:33:09.

our own pot -- pass. As a government's policy basically always

:33:10.:33:17.

keep a fair punishment the force? -- finding something worse. Obviously,

:33:18.:33:22.

my friend and I have a profound disagreement about this issue. I

:33:23.:33:26.

respect his views because he has held them in good faith for many

:33:27.:33:30.

years. And until my view is that we need to form for years. I'm sure we

:33:31.:33:36.

can respect each other and the months of debate ahead. Don't think

:33:37.:33:41.

I would say by doing to take issue with my Honorable friend is about

:33:42.:33:45.

manifesto delivered. On a run through whole thing but we said we

:33:46.:33:49.

will legislate for a referendum and we delivered. Which I will protect

:33:50.:33:54.

our economy from the eurozone, and wanted to pursue power for was from

:33:55.:33:58.

Brussels cover in the sediment. One problem is to work together to block

:33:59.:34:02.

unwanted legislation covering the settlement. The one and two ever

:34:03.:34:06.

closer union. We'll will ensure that defence policies national security

:34:07.:34:10.

remains firmly under British national control. We assisted the EU

:34:11.:34:15.

migrants want to claim tax credits must live it here and contribute it

:34:16.:34:18.

for four years covered in the settlement. Time and time again, we

:34:19.:34:23.

also noticed manifesto and I'm proud of them in. I'm proud of the team to

:34:24.:34:27.

put together and implement the good. I say let's have this vigorous

:34:28.:34:31.

argument, let's not pretend that we have not delivered the manifesto

:34:32.:34:32.

that was in front of. The bosses of those companies aren't

:34:33.:35:04.

saying that very publicly, I would invite the Prime Minister during

:35:05.:35:07.

this election campaign to encourage them to talk to those people whose

:35:08.:35:12.

jobs depend on that investment, to say what would happen if we left

:35:13.:35:16.

Europe, because they tell me they would leave Britain. My message to

:35:17.:35:25.

businesses is if you have a view, make sure you tell people and talk

:35:26.:35:30.

to customers, and your suppliers. Above all, talk to your employees,

:35:31.:35:39.

and your staff. This issue is so important, the business voice, large

:35:40.:35:43.

and small, is very much in favour of Britain staying. Many of them have

:35:44.:35:47.

said generous things about this renegotiation because they recognise

:35:48.:35:52.

the dangers, particularly in the area of safeguarding ourselves

:35:53.:35:54.

against distillation, because we aren't in the Euro, given that I

:35:55.:35:58.

hope business and enterprise will speak clearly in the next few

:35:59.:36:02.

months. Much of the protection of the Euro outs in this is set out.

:36:03.:36:11.

But this requires nothing, as far as I can tell, nothing more than the

:36:12.:36:16.

discussion to be held about the UK's concerns. Not even European Council.

:36:17.:36:21.

It leaves Eurozone members free to enforce its will bike UMT. So, can

:36:22.:36:28.

the Prime Minister explain what beyond the discussion, which can be

:36:29.:36:33.

ignored, has been achieved by the safeguard mechanism -- QMV. I can

:36:34.:36:37.

answer that, is an important question. There are two things, it

:36:38.:36:42.

is a set of principles set out on section A on economic governance,

:36:43.:36:47.

these principles of non-discrimination, no cost, no

:36:48.:36:50.

disadvantage, and crucially in paragraph four, a real concern to

:36:51.:36:53.

the Bank of England, I know it will be a concern to his committee, is

:36:54.:36:58.

making clear that the financial stability of member states whose

:36:59.:37:02.

currency is not the Euro is matter for their own authorities and

:37:03.:37:06.

budgetary responsibilities. These principles are very important. What

:37:07.:37:10.

I think is exciting is that not only have these been setup for the first

:37:11.:37:14.

time, not only has Europe accepted for the first time that there are

:37:15.:37:18.

other currencies in the EU but these changes will be incorporated into

:37:19.:37:22.

the treaties. The mechanism, if you like, is over and above new way of

:37:23.:37:28.

making sure issues are raised, should we want to, at the level of

:37:29.:37:31.

the European Council, a protection we don't have today, but I think

:37:32.:37:35.

making the treaty, making the principle is part of the treaty,

:37:36.:37:39.

already an international legally binding decision, is hugely

:37:40.:37:45.

important and people on behalf of financial services and the Bank of

:37:46.:37:48.

England and others, they will recognise this is important progress

:37:49.:37:53.

for Britain. There is still plenty that divides myself and the Prime

:37:54.:37:57.

Minister politically, but on this, in the national interest, I think

:37:58.:38:01.

he's right to be campaigning for Britain to remain in the European

:38:02.:38:07.

Union. I want to put a quote to him, leaving would cause at least some

:38:08.:38:11.

business uncertainty, while embroiling the government for

:38:12.:38:15.

several years in a fiddly process of negotiating new arrangements. So

:38:16.:38:19.

diverging energy from the real problems of this country, that was

:38:20.:38:25.

on February the 7th. The Mayor of London was right to seven days ago,

:38:26.:38:31.

wasn't he? What I would say to the honourable gentleman and everyone is

:38:32.:38:36.

that we have really got to examine what these alternatives are, and how

:38:37.:38:39.

much uncertainty there would be, how long these processes would take. I

:38:40.:38:44.

think therein lies the importance of this decision, for businesses,

:38:45.:38:47.

families, people's prospects as well up and down the country. Does the

:38:48.:38:53.

promised a group of me that one of the key benefits of his agreement is

:38:54.:38:57.

to give legal clarity about Britain's special status within the

:38:58.:39:01.

EU? You would be aware of the uncertainties that have been for

:39:02.:39:03.

those advising the government about the law in the past, does he also

:39:04.:39:09.

agree that it is wrong to say that it is not legally binding, it is.

:39:10.:39:14.

And it is irreversible, unless we choose otherwise. There is a long

:39:15.:39:22.

opinion by Professor Sir Alan Dashwood, the leading EU

:39:23.:39:26.

constitutional lawyer in this country, it can be read on the

:39:27.:39:33.

Henderson Chambers website. I'm grateful for what my right

:39:34.:39:35.

honourable friend says given that he was a senior law officer in the

:39:36.:39:40.

government. I listen carefully to what the member for Beaconsfield has

:39:41.:39:44.

said, they could not have been more clear on this point, I've read the

:39:45.:39:50.

judgment by Lord Dashwood and the government 's own legal advice. They

:39:51.:39:54.

say it is legally binding and reversible. People who question it

:39:55.:39:58.

should look at the Danish protocol, that's been working well for 23

:39:59.:40:06.

years. Does the Prime Minister share my concerns and worries that after

:40:07.:40:13.

70 years of peace and prosperity, any nation begins to take it rather

:40:14.:40:18.

for granted, and take the institutions that created that peace

:40:19.:40:24.

and prosperity? I was born on the August weekend in London at the

:40:25.:40:31.

height of the Battle of Britain. My generation, and many people in this

:40:32.:40:38.

country with longer memories, note that peace and prosperity aren't

:40:39.:40:41.

guaranteed, unless you work together across Europe to maintain them day

:40:42.:40:46.

after day, month after month, year after year. I agree with the

:40:47.:40:50.

honourable gentleman, it is worth remembering why this came about in

:40:51.:40:53.

the first place. The appalling bloodshed on our continent. For

:40:54.:40:57.

people of my generation, very much postwar children, we should remember

:40:58.:41:04.

that and look afresh at the institutions of the EU, and try to

:41:05.:41:10.

make sure that this organisation works for this century, rather than

:41:11.:41:13.

the last century. That's part of what the agreement is about. I

:41:14.:41:17.

remember the meeting we once had at the Cloth Hall in Ypres, you cannot

:41:18.:41:23.

sit in that building without thinking of the slaughter that

:41:24.:41:25.

European countries have engaged in in the past. May I to salute my

:41:26.:41:31.

right honourable friend for honouring his commitment to the

:41:32.:41:35.

British people, to offer them a referendum? And extraordinary

:41:36.:41:39.

stamina over the last week or so, where we've been to join the recess.

:41:40.:41:44.

For me, this is not the fundamental reform we were promised. We've

:41:45.:41:50.

learned a lot about security in the last few weeks, would he not agree

:41:51.:41:54.

with me that the security of Europe is dependent on Nato, not the EU? It

:41:55.:41:59.

is Nato that is protecting us from further incursion by President

:42:00.:42:04.

Putin, and we do Nato no good by suggesting that somehow the EU has

:42:05.:42:10.

some competence in this area? I have huge respect for my right honourable

:42:11.:42:14.

friend, he served brilliantly in the last garment helping to strengthen

:42:15.:42:21.

defences, perhaps ten or 15 years ago, -- government. Whether it is

:42:22.:42:26.

our partnership with America, not the EU, considering defence and

:42:27.:42:31.

security in the run today, the way we fight terrorism yes it depends on

:42:32.:42:35.

our relationships and what we do through the EU. I see it daily

:42:36.:42:42.

through the exchange of information. The agreement we reached at this

:42:43.:42:46.

council, to make sure that there is a strong Nato mission, to try and

:42:47.:42:51.

help the situation between Greece and Turkey, it is a Nato mission

:42:52.:42:55.

backing up his point, but where was some of the conversation going on

:42:56.:42:59.

about it? Where were the Germans, British and French sitting together

:43:00.:43:02.

and working out what assets we could supply? How to get real power into

:43:03.:43:07.

it? It was done around the EU Council table. The fact is we need

:43:08.:43:12.

both to keep safe in the modern world, fight terrorism, criminality,

:43:13.:43:17.

stand up to evil around the world and use all organisations, not just

:43:18.:43:22.

some of them. The Prime Minister has played fast and loose with our

:43:23.:43:26.

cultural, social and economic future in Europe for a consider is -- for a

:43:27.:43:33.

series of concessions. Will the Prime Minister now guarantee that

:43:34.:43:37.

his government's case for remaining in the EU will stop appeasing them,

:43:38.:43:41.

and will instead focus on the many positives of the EU. Can he commit

:43:42.:43:49.

to ensuring that the public has sufficient information to make a

:43:50.:43:52.

positive and informed choice? We have certainly been whiting a

:43:53.:43:57.

positive campaign, and in that there is a series of documents, some were

:43:58.:44:04.

mandated by the other place, when they had a referendum bill, we have

:44:05.:44:08.

two set out rights and obligations of things you get out of, and

:44:09.:44:12.

obligations you have in the EU. We will be talking about the economic

:44:13.:44:18.

case. All of those issues, I would say to those interested in some

:44:19.:44:21.

cultural or educational arguments, come forward to. We need from voices

:44:22.:44:26.

from universities, they have a lot to say on this issue, they get a lot

:44:27.:44:29.

out of Europe. Cultural organisations should be speaking out

:44:30.:44:35.

as well. Nick Herbert. Anti-Mr Speaker, would my right honourable

:44:36.:44:40.

friend agree with me that when this country in our national interest

:44:41.:44:44.

makes an international agreement of any kind, it may involve a loss of

:44:45.:44:48.

sovereignty, that may be the case through any trade deal, through Nato

:44:49.:44:55.

rules, and on the single most important issue that this House of

:44:56.:44:59.

Commons could take, which is whether or not to engage in military action.

:45:00.:45:04.

We are treaty bound by Nato to go to the defence under article five of a

:45:05.:45:09.

country, a fellow member, under armed attack. That obliges us, in

:45:10.:45:13.

that sense, we've lost sovereignty. That is because we believe it is in

:45:14.:45:17.

the interests of the country to enter that agreement and has made us

:45:18.:45:23.

safer. If the claim of sovereignty and the loss of sovereignty were the

:45:24.:45:26.

trump card, would it not in fact be the case that all of those

:45:27.:45:29.

international agreements would need to be torn up? I think my right

:45:30.:45:34.

honourable friend makes an important point, if you're only determination

:45:35.:45:38.

was never to seek technical sovereignty committee would never

:45:39.:45:43.

join any organisations or do a trade ill, or be a member of the IMF World

:45:44.:45:50.

Bank -- trade deal. The question is what maximises power, influence and

:45:51.:45:56.

ability to get things done. As the Transport Secretary put brilliantly

:45:57.:45:59.

in the cabinet meeting, I would love to live in Utopia, but I expect the

:46:00.:46:04.

EU is that as well. You don't abolish the EU by leaving it, you

:46:05.:46:09.

simply cut yourself off from something, and therefore, possibly

:46:10.:46:13.

make yourself less powerful rather than more powerful. May I gently

:46:14.:46:17.

remind the house that people who wish to take part in the exchanges

:46:18.:46:24.

should have been here at the start, and remain throughout. People who

:46:25.:46:28.

have gone in and out of the chamber and may have come back in again

:46:29.:46:32.

should not then be standing. That's pretty much in breach of traditions

:46:33.:46:36.

of the house. We must be clear on that. Mr Ronnie Campbell. The main

:46:37.:46:41.

policy for me was a close political union. If this could be voted to

:46:42.:46:52.

upstate -- stay in the union on the 23rd, could we put it to a treaty,

:46:53.:47:00.

be written into a treaty? It is already an agreement and will

:47:01.:47:04.

shortly be deposited at the UN as an international law decision, and

:47:05.:47:10.

therefore it would already be, by then, legally binding and

:47:11.:47:14.

irreversible. When it comes to getting out of an ever closer union

:47:15.:47:18.

and redefining a closer union, I think it is so important it has to

:47:19.:47:22.

go into the treaties. The agreement here is when those treaties change

:47:23.:47:25.

they will be written into those treaties. If you like, there's a

:47:26.:47:31.

double lock on this. A vital point. John Baron? I suspect this is

:47:32.:47:36.

tinkering, it is not fundamental change, the red card is not a veto,

:47:37.:47:40.

it won't stop a majority of the EU in forcing unwanted taxes. Should

:47:41.:47:49.

the Prime Minister accept the possibility that the red card can be

:47:50.:47:54.

turned against us? It could not stop, or it would stop, rather, UK

:47:55.:48:01.

sponsored initiatives being blocked by the majority of the EU,

:48:02.:48:07.

initiatives that could be in our best interests, like access and

:48:08.:48:12.

further enhancement of the single market? Look, I don't overstate the

:48:13.:48:16.

red card, what it is is a new mechanism not to delay but properly

:48:17.:48:21.

block new initiatives available for National Polmont, should they want

:48:22.:48:26.

to avail themselves of it. For me, it's another thing that makes this

:48:27.:48:31.

organisation more democratically applicable to national Polmont is.

:48:32.:48:37.

On some occasions it may work against, I suppose it is

:48:38.:48:43.

accountability. The point is this organisation will be more democratic

:48:44.:48:45.

because of my decision rather than less.

:48:46.:48:50.

Mr Speaker, since the Prime Minister seems to be getting none from his

:48:51.:48:59.

own side, can I commend him from coming right to cancel a Michael

:49:00.:49:06.

version of freedom of movement. Can he assure the House that there'll be

:49:07.:49:09.

no application for the hundreds of thousands of UK citizens living in

:49:10.:49:16.

the EU for this deal? Of course if we stay in the European Union

:49:17.:49:19.

British people will continue to be able to live and work abroad as they

:49:20.:49:24.

do now. It is not for me to set up will happen to them in different

:49:25.:49:27.

circumstances. I think the league campaign will try and address that

:49:28.:49:32.

point. You will know with certainty what they get. In his statement the

:49:33.:49:40.

Prime Minister observed that leaving the EU might briefly make us feel

:49:41.:49:44.

more sovereign, does he not accept that the issue of parliamentary

:49:45.:49:48.

sovereignty will be the centre of that central one for parliamentary

:49:49.:49:55.

debate. So long as we're subject to the European Union we will not be

:49:56.:49:59.

truly sovereign and erode very little change last week in that

:50:00.:50:04.

respect. I think would change the last weekend in that respect is that

:50:05.:50:08.

because we're getting out of ever closing union we now know that we

:50:09.:50:14.

cannot be forced into folder public again good union against our will.

:50:15.:50:17.

On this issue of sovereignty I will repeat again, if you leave the EU

:50:18.:50:22.

you might feel more sovereign because you could pass this law or

:50:23.:50:26.

pass that law, but on the other hand if you still want to set into Europe

:50:27.:50:29.

you have to meet all the rules under which you have say. That is a

:50:30.:50:33.

diminution of sovereignty rather than increase of sovereignty. On the

:50:34.:50:42.

issue of sovereignty, has been reported in several news media

:50:43.:50:45.

organizations that the Prime Minister intends to unveil a British

:50:46.:50:48.

sovereignty bill in the next few days. Will he confirm that that is

:50:49.:50:53.

the case and if so will he tell us what provision he is going to make

:50:54.:50:56.

in that bill to recognise the principle of unlimited sovereignty

:50:57.:51:00.

in parliament and the distinctively English principal which has no

:51:01.:51:08.

counterpart to Scott a scattered -- constitutional law? We will build a

:51:09.:51:18.

2011 when we set out that our limited sovereign. Just as they can

:51:19.:51:22.

join the year they can join the -- Olevia. That is the good for the

:51:23.:51:27.

whole of the United Kingdom. We do have a sovereign parliament. I do

:51:28.:51:31.

think there are ways we can add to that. As other countries have done,

:51:32.:51:38.

I look for to bringing proposals forward in the coming day. On Friday

:51:39.:51:43.

two and a half thousand people packed the QE Center to see the goal

:51:44.:51:53.

launch national cross party leaf campaign, many speakers were there,

:51:54.:52:01.

including a renowned economic commentator, a senior trade

:52:02.:52:06.

unionist, and very respected Labour in Pete, the co-chairman of

:52:07.:52:12.

conservatives for Britain, for conservative MPs, and the leader of

:52:13.:52:23.

respect. In 2014, Bruce Davidson our excellent conservative leader in

:52:24.:52:27.

Scotland, linked arms with George Galloway in the national interest.

:52:28.:52:34.

Does the Prime Minister agree that Ruth Davidson was right and does he

:52:35.:52:37.

agree that sometimes you have to work with people you do not like?

:52:38.:52:42.

Everyone will have to make the choice about what platform they

:52:43.:52:48.

appear on and who they appear on those platforms with. I think the

:52:49.:52:53.

disadvantage of appearing on any platform with either Nigel The

:52:54.:52:59.

Mirage or George Galloway is what I consider who their friends are. ,

:53:00.:53:06.

this is going to be something everyone will have to think

:53:07.:53:15.

carefully about when they to appear. There has been a lot of talk about

:53:16.:53:21.

the City of London and big multilateral companies working here

:53:22.:53:23.

and investing in this country. The beating heart of our economy and the

:53:24.:53:31.

small and medium enterprise sector. As India's exports to EU countries.

:53:32.:53:35.

As the Prime Minister agree that it would be madness to slam the door in

:53:36.:53:41.

their face. I think the overwhelming majority of SNAs... There are many

:53:42.:53:47.

companies that are not exporters but are involved in the supply chain

:53:48.:53:52.

with companies that do export. This is a point that the business

:53:53.:53:57.

services organizations, banks accountants and lawyers make. I

:53:58.:54:07.

would like to also think my right noble friend the Prime Minister, and

:54:08.:54:13.

all routable members of this house who voted for us to have a

:54:14.:54:19.

referendum on our EU membership. Can you promise to say whether the remit

:54:20.:54:25.

he has reached alters the Lisbon Treaty at all? Obviously it does,

:54:26.:54:28.

would we change these treaties this'll be of the founding documents

:54:29.:54:37.

of the EU. In time the treaty changes will sit alongside the other

:54:38.:54:41.

treaties that have been produced in the past. Like him, I regret the

:54:42.:54:45.

fact that so many treaties were passed with so many Democratic

:54:46.:54:52.

accountability -- so little. A distant dream for many of us who

:54:53.:55:01.

used to argue this never got it. The Prime Minister has stated that

:55:02.:55:08.

people who vote to leave the EU do not love their country. I represent

:55:09.:55:17.

many veterans of the armed services who is cannot be questioned. What he

:55:18.:55:21.

Prime Minister apologise to the people? I absolutely did not say

:55:22.:55:27.

that. I said that I love my country and I think our country will be

:55:28.:55:35.

greater and more powerful but we remain a organizations through which

:55:36.:55:37.

we can project our power and influence and do great things in the

:55:38.:55:41.

world. I did not question the patriotism of anyone in our country.

:55:42.:55:46.

We're going to have to make a choice. I think part of Britain's

:55:47.:55:51.

greatness is not just the right we have this country, but we are not in

:55:52.:55:58.

doubt looking country. I'm very proud that we help during refugees,

:55:59.:56:03.

and help stabilise countries from which so many problems come. We do

:56:04.:56:09.

this because we are strong, but also because we are members of Nato, we

:56:10.:56:14.

are a permanent seat of the UN, and part of the EU. We should be proud

:56:15.:56:20.

of the world that we play in the world. -- role. If these

:56:21.:56:30.

negotiations did not succeed, and he would have no hesitation even

:56:31.:56:33.

recommending that we leave the European Union. Can he have in the

:56:34.:56:38.

library papers which cover contingency plans which would take

:56:39.:56:43.

place in that eventuality. What he confirm that in that circumstance

:56:44.:56:46.

exactly the same leap in the dark what have to be made by him as he is

:56:47.:56:51.

now vilified? What I would say to my Honorable friend and I have great

:56:52.:56:58.

respect for him because he is held his views for many years, and I

:56:59.:57:05.

would hope he will respect my views. In terms of the documentation we're

:57:06.:57:08.

going to be publishing something about the alternatives to

:57:09.:57:11.

demonstrate what we believe they are you demonstrate that we are thinking

:57:12.:57:15.

about what would need to happen with that eventuality to come about. In

:57:16.:57:20.

terms of what we achieved, I'm very happy to write to him with a list of

:57:21.:57:24.

things that we said in our manifesto. We achieve in this new

:57:25.:57:29.

renegotiation. Consequent to say that I'm going to take a different

:57:30.:57:32.

path from you, I'm going to make my own decision. Somehow we have not

:57:33.:57:36.

delivered the overt whelming On at the Prime Minister can tell

:57:37.:57:47.

the House whether he thinks rural communities and present would be

:57:48.:57:53.

better our worst thing in the EU. I represent rural communities, 400

:57:54.:57:56.

square miles of beautiful West Oxfordshire. There'll be a range of

:57:57.:58:02.

views in my constituency by no one I talked to many of those responsible

:58:03.:58:08.

for producing food and for looking after our local environment, that

:58:09.:58:10.

they see strong advantages of fermenting. -- of remaining. Though

:58:11.:58:18.

the parameters are agreed and negotiated a special status till,

:58:19.:58:22.

the actual demonstrations of sovereignty at his best? -- special

:58:23.:58:31.

status till. Safer and more economic prosperous and a manifest itself in

:58:32.:58:34.

many aspects of the deal, but also the way in which we behave as a

:58:35.:58:38.

nation state within the European Union and the future. What I would

:58:39.:58:46.

say is I think it demonstrates that while this organisation is imperfect

:58:47.:58:51.

and sometimes campy and flexible, they did show flexibility. One

:58:52.:58:56.

country came along with a manifest in place renegotiate its position

:58:57.:59:01.

with a set of changes and by large we have achieved them. I think that

:59:02.:59:05.

a sign that this organisation can be flexible IP that is incredibly

:59:06.:59:08.

important. If he did not achieve any of this, I would really have deep

:59:09.:59:11.

questions about whether the stay in an organisation like this. But they

:59:12.:59:17.

demonstrate it looks ability. -- demonstrated flexibility. I'm proud

:59:18.:59:24.

of Northern Ireland in his place in the world as a global trader. And I

:59:25.:59:30.

know we benefit a great deal from the EU at the moment. With a mind

:59:31.:59:33.

that promised or made it clear what the benefits are to us on our

:59:34.:59:38.

borders, our farmers, are fishermen, and all the people there that really

:59:39.:59:43.

relied on international trade? I look forward to coming there to make

:59:44.:59:50.

a point. -- those point. We look at the sad that they have been given in

:59:51.:59:55.

terms of final grants, -- Arlen that they have. If you look at what we

:59:56.:00:02.

have reformed heredity, agricultural policies, more to be done. I think

:00:03.:00:07.

money goes into another I lived through those programmes and I'm

:00:08.:00:09.

happy to come and talk about all those things in the province.

:00:10.:00:18.

Will actually be changed to incorporate our changes and perhaps

:00:19.:00:23.

to allow greater integration of the eurozone, required for the

:00:24.:00:29.

referendum in the UK or not? That require a future referendum. The

:00:30.:00:35.

eurozone members were to bring forward treaty changes to change the

:00:36.:00:41.

nature of the eurozone, but without effecting any weight competences

:00:42.:00:44.

here in Britain. Then I suspect we'll be up to get our changes on

:00:45.:00:49.

ever closer union, on the governments surrounding the

:00:50.:00:54.

eurozone, and to the treaty. Whether it require never referendum depends

:00:55.:00:59.

on whether it goes to Brussels. If the answer is yes, you have to have

:01:00.:01:03.

a referendum. If the answer is no, you don't. And as statement, the

:01:04.:01:09.

Prime Minister said responsibility for supervising the stability of the

:01:10.:01:16.

UK will always remain in the hands of the Bank of England. -- in his

:01:17.:01:22.

statement. But we already share that responsibility. With the European

:01:23.:01:26.

banking authorities and we already signed up to the single will book

:01:27.:01:32.

about RT. Out of the Prime Minister statement compatible with the view

:01:33.:01:37.

of Mr, the head of the European banking authority, who says that the

:01:38.:01:41.

institution must be the dominant player in Santa Cruz, particularly

:01:42.:01:47.

in Britain wishes to keep the town and state within a single European

:01:48.:01:54.

financial regulation. The assets of this question requires something

:01:55.:01:58.

like 35 hours of negotiation. -- the answer to this question. Of course

:01:59.:02:05.

you have the backing union arrangement. And for the kill zone

:02:06.:02:10.

countries, they need to have their banks properly scrutinised and

:02:11.:02:14.

regulated at a guilty level. We have our own currency, our on banking

:02:15.:02:18.

supervision arrangement. It is hard to supervise a complex and larger

:02:19.:02:22.

economy like Britain, with one of the largest financial centres

:02:23.:02:24.

anywhere and well, it is not just banks that are systemically

:02:25.:02:29.

important, it is also other financial institutions. Central

:02:30.:02:32.

counterparties, and why this is important is because at the end of

:02:33.:02:35.

the day, we need to make sure that whatever is the eurozone does, we

:02:36.:02:39.

are protected in terms of the Bank of England playing the role of being

:02:40.:02:45.

to intervene to resolve and to supervise those important

:02:46.:02:48.

institution. That's what paragraph four is it about. Although that

:02:49.:02:52.

sounds very technical, it is fantastically important because it

:02:53.:03:01.

Britain -- it Britain, it would have to and a zero best organisation

:03:02.:03:05.

where the eurozone is a large currency, and we can have variables,

:03:06.:03:09.

there would be a case for saying long-term, this is a single currency

:03:10.:03:12.

only organisation independently. This was crucial to get that

:03:13.:03:18.

settled, technical, but at and fundamentally important what we can

:03:19.:03:21.

get fair treatment inside this organisation. The answer is yes, we

:03:22.:03:28.

can. And it's great exercise of democracy, it is not what we say of

:03:29.:03:33.

the house, but what are constituents decide. My constituency but many

:03:34.:03:35.

will be interested in the things that affect them. The economic

:03:36.:03:41.

production of the jobs of the Bar-B-Q can bring in a single trade,

:03:42.:03:44.

so they don't want the euro, they don't want the euro superstate and

:03:45.:03:49.

something for nothing and welfare. The diamonds are confirmed to my

:03:50.:03:54.

constituents in a bubble the country that what he is negotiated. -- can

:03:55.:04:02.

Minister confirm. I don't know if I make it too one with a cold, but I

:04:03.:04:06.

hope to make it to many parts of our country to make the point. --

:04:07.:04:10.

Wimbledon. We have not solved all the problems, but we have

:04:11.:04:14.

fundamentally addressed the major that Britain had. Too much original

:04:15.:04:19.

currency club, too much regulation, too much of a politically

:04:20.:04:23.

convenient, and not national determination of free moment abuse

:04:24.:04:27.

and welfare. I think those four pinnacles of the heart of the

:04:28.:04:29.

problems we've had with this organisation. -- principles.

:04:30.:04:40.

The diamonds are going to welcome the support that he has received to

:04:41.:04:46.

date on the surprise element surviving area of the Deputy First

:04:47.:04:49.

Minister of Northern Ireland? -- if the Minister. Or is he going to

:04:50.:04:57.

encourage the people of the stay in tune with his Secretary of State for

:04:58.:05:02.

Northern Ireland, who has indicated their strong click in tune with the

:05:03.:05:05.

people of Northern Ireland that they should leave, and if he is not going

:05:06.:05:09.

to support the Secretary of State, will he didn't be following the

:05:10.:05:13.

advice of the Deputy First Minister that the Secretary of State said the

:05:14.:05:18.

bond. Will he not support the Secretary of State? The secondary

:05:19.:05:24.

state of an excellent job. She is exercising her decision for Britain

:05:25.:05:30.

to leave the queue. That's Secretary of State. I think the key thing is

:05:31.:05:34.

that an aromatic and other Alice up their mind, based on the evidence. I

:05:35.:05:37.

look forward to forward to coming to try and help persuade them to remain

:05:38.:05:44.

in a reformed EU. The Prime Minister accept that the thousands of Sun

:05:45.:05:50.

Microsystems, the hundreds of thousands of mothers, and methods

:05:51.:05:54.

across the UK to work in the financial services will be glad that

:05:55.:05:58.

he at least argues that jobs in as the Leader of the Opposition appears

:05:59.:06:01.

to the best some? And we recognise that the covenant package is an

:06:02.:06:08.

important one for strategic British interests, and therefore the

:06:09.:06:09.

pragmatic investors businesslike thing is not to walk away from a

:06:10.:06:14.

market, but to stay in it, and make it work better? We should recognise,

:06:15.:06:25.

something like an making jobs in finance, I think, so making jobs in

:06:26.:06:29.

mid-December become. The key point is because we are in the single

:06:30.:06:34.

market, we have the right to passport to have a bag or financial

:06:35.:06:37.

services company here Britain back and trade throughout the EU. The

:06:38.:06:41.

dissent of market and you lose that right. But within have to happen is

:06:42.:06:46.

companies based in the UK would have to move at least some of the jobs to

:06:47.:06:51.

admit European country. That is why HSBC said they would lose 8000 jobs.

:06:52.:07:00.

This is real jobs. -- 1000 jobs. Need to explain this, it is

:07:01.:07:03.

compensated, but there is no doubt in my mind that living the single

:07:04.:07:07.

market financial services would mean less jobs Britain. It was the

:07:08.:07:14.

assistant ahead of time as still used the word evolved in connection

:07:15.:07:18.

-- devolved in connection. Clever I personally will be voting

:07:19.:07:34.

to stay in the EU, and I will have the Prime Minister to give it to

:07:35.:07:38.

others. The diamonds are assets in a good deal, why the struggling to

:07:39.:07:43.

convince somebody in his own party? -- the Minister. Some people are

:07:44.:07:46.

long-standing feuds about wanting to leave the EU. The point I was making

:07:47.:07:55.

about starting the worst percentage, no doubt that but for some people

:07:56.:07:59.

seem to be suggesting. I just about money, but some how did you start

:08:00.:08:02.

the process of leaving, you'll get offered a better that the state. I

:08:03.:08:06.

think that is not the case. You could think about it like this,

:08:07.:08:09.

you're not just divorcing one person, you are divorcing 27,

:08:10.:08:16.

potentially unhappy partners. I give to no one in my belief, that I can

:08:17.:08:24.

bring people back, I have seen Buffalo wedding Set plays. -- I'd

:08:25.:08:29.

kill to know. Resulting in another word. -- multiple weddings. May I

:08:30.:08:38.

join other members in congratulating the Prime Minister for this work in

:08:39.:08:44.

Brussels last week. I do agree that this reform does produce a

:08:45.:08:50.

phenomenal chains and British accumulations -- phenomenal chains

:08:51.:08:56.

and British, EU lesson. It does a lot of young people would jet at the

:08:57.:09:00.

possibility of entering into a new turmoil within the economy. -- young

:09:01.:09:06.

people with the dread. We agreed that it is vital to Britain 's

:09:07.:09:11.

economy that will remain inside the European Union? -- we were made.

:09:12.:09:20.

They have a strong question this campaign would have been through

:09:21.:09:22.

difficult times. The time of uncertainty, why had extra risk? --

:09:23.:09:32.

in a time of uncertainty. And Britain's strategic interest to be

:09:33.:09:35.

pretty intimately engaged in the doings of a continent that has a

:09:36.:09:39.

gram 20th-century history, and whose alchemy have cost millions of

:09:40.:09:42.

Britons to lose their lives. That the best way of staying pretty

:09:43.:09:48.

engaged is to remain a member of the European Union. I agree with that.

:09:49.:09:53.

If we leave the EU, and do not cease to exist, but was seized element

:09:54.:09:57.

contains that an impact on our lives. And on our world. It is best

:09:58.:10:06.

to try to offer from within. Sure questions are not required. Were

:10:07.:10:09.

having answers, but we need short answer. Can we ensure that the

:10:10.:10:19.

information in the campaign is actually correct? As he was a go at

:10:20.:10:24.

letter and the telegraph and the male appeared in criticising the

:10:25.:10:33.

Prime Minister. -- a week ago. The Prime Minister, no one ever heard of

:10:34.:10:37.

that person. Can we please ask that information before by both sides is

:10:38.:10:42.

fair, accurate, Achterberg sold the public can decide on further

:10:43.:10:47.

evidence? Dass and correct. We're producing a number of documents them

:10:48.:10:56.

as -- information is accurate. Can ask the premises to read at a rate

:10:57.:11:00.

was at the heart of this matter, if the UK left the EU, who was almost

:11:01.:11:04.

having to continue to implement the vast majority of the EU roles and

:11:05.:11:07.

write what is at the heart of this matter, if the UK left the EU, who

:11:08.:11:10.

was almost having to continue to implement the vast majority of the

:11:11.:11:12.

EU roles in relation everyone to access the same terms of the single

:11:13.:11:15.

market. The only difference would be doing a lot of good essay about

:11:16.:11:18.

terms sappy love I had a lot of conversations within a original

:11:19.:11:23.

about this. If you do, you implement the directives but have no say over

:11:24.:11:30.

how they are put in place. For the first time in my lifetime, people

:11:31.:11:35.

and words are what I have a jingle and say on this. That's a legitimate

:11:36.:11:49.

say on this. In 2010 manifesto, we said we would bring and eight UK

:11:50.:11:54.

sovereignty bill to assert sovereignty of our country and make

:11:55.:11:57.

sure it was this Parliament that take. We agree that sovereignty is

:11:58.:12:01.

something that can be asserted by this house and not something for us

:12:02.:12:08.

to argue about? Would introduce, the sovereignty clause in the 2011

:12:09.:12:13.

referendum. -- we did introduce. When looking to add to it in the

:12:14.:12:19.

proposals. That's what I look into. Many mike assiduous work and the

:12:20.:12:25.

Lutton, cannot buckle with the said today. That's many of my

:12:26.:12:32.

constituents. Accessed the largest single market, given that, and

:12:33.:12:37.

offered appointments are a plus and a parliament opportunity to campaign

:12:38.:12:40.

in my constituency on this issue? Cannot also given that there are

:12:41.:12:45.

those that would love to get their hands on Britain's services, and the

:12:46.:12:49.

Maryland and has given of his day job to think about is that Shaw,

:12:50.:12:52.

connect the Prime Minister and very clear message that London is

:12:53.:12:57.

stronger in Europe? -- the Mayor of London. I would be delighted to come

:12:58.:13:05.

to his constituency. I think he is right, when it comes to the Mac DK's

:13:06.:13:15.

membership is of strategic importance to the financial and

:13:16.:13:27.

related services. -- UK's. These organisations covering finance,

:13:28.:13:31.

insurance, manufacturing, engineering, they are all negative

:13:32.:13:33.

views clear enough that we should listen to them. -- they are all

:13:34.:13:43.

making their views. Investment in the country has gone up to the West

:13:44.:13:47.

Midlands is gone. But he agree with me that full access to the single

:13:48.:13:52.

market, which focuses on jobs and growth, is critical to the security

:13:53.:13:56.

a jobs and people in my constituency and across the West Midlands? We

:13:57.:14:02.

have seen an industrial renaissance of the West Midlands with more

:14:03.:14:06.

people in part of the crowd and the automotive sector. The centres are

:14:07.:14:10.

part of complex supply chains right across Europe. He'll be huge

:14:11.:14:15.

dislocation if we were to leave. -- and it would be a huge. Access to

:14:16.:14:21.

labor, protection of workers rights, protection of human rights in some

:14:22.:14:25.

of the benefits to our membership of the EU. Beneficial to work and

:14:26.:14:31.

businesses. It must perturb arm and said that his Justice Secretary, and

:14:32.:14:40.

employment Minister, how will he assure that those positive reasons

:14:41.:14:42.

for remaining are the forefront of campaign? Grabbed a wooden issue

:14:43.:14:48.

that has caused the and differences with parties right across his house.

:14:49.:14:56.

-- we are are dealing with issues. With CC, is 23 people sitting around

:14:57.:15:00.

the Cabinet table, convinced that we should be better off within the EU,

:15:01.:15:04.

and said that attacking a different view. I doubt that we should be

:15:05.:15:09.

concerned. This is a referendum, the people's choice, not the

:15:10.:15:14.

politician's towards. Does he agree that now is the time? We are no

:15:15.:15:21.

longer an imperial power? Able to demand what we want to get of living

:15:22.:15:27.

fragile and volatile world and all senses of those terms. It is not a

:15:28.:15:33.

membership above the EU, together with the United Nations, with essay

:15:34.:15:37.

on the security council, our membership of Nato, I do platform

:15:38.:15:43.

for us to promote Britain here and abroad and that is why we should be

:15:44.:15:49.

staying? Membership of these organisations helps us to get things

:15:50.:15:53.

done for our people, country, and also made progress on the issues we

:15:54.:15:59.

care about. -- make progress. I think the prominence it deserves

:16:00.:16:03.

credit for the deal. -- Prime Minister. The campaign the honour

:16:04.:16:10.

was a state where they would look like. I think it is, not him --

:16:11.:16:17.

incumbent on him to tell us what a lead balloon flight. Any say that

:16:18.:16:23.

can be saved what will it believes will look like and what state will

:16:24.:16:26.

look like and what stable of my? We will do is have a government setting

:16:27.:16:29.

out what we believe the often bizarre. There is the Swiss model

:16:30.:16:36.

that took nine years to negotiate. There's a Norwegian model, the WT of

:16:37.:16:40.

option we could face tariffs every time you try to sell the EU. The

:16:41.:16:47.

Canada free trade deal, did get. But there it not cover all services, so

:16:48.:16:51.

you could be disadvantaged. We need to need to go to detail in the

:16:52.:16:54.

cities these input accurate, information and place so that people

:16:55.:17:01.

can see what is on offer. Other comments and agree that critical to

:17:02.:17:05.

the success of his campaign is going to be his ability to convince people

:17:06.:17:10.

that by giving us some sovereignty in prison, we have gained

:17:11.:17:15.

sovereignty interrupt the game authority in general, and can he

:17:16.:17:18.

convince the country that he'll be able to do that? This will be the

:17:19.:17:26.

challenge of the comment once. -- coming months. I have no self is

:17:27.:17:29.

interested that. I will tell as see it. What I have learned of the six

:17:30.:17:36.

years of things Prime Minister, this organisation is imperfect and can

:17:37.:17:40.

sometimes be frustrating. But we are better off in. I believe that and

:17:41.:17:45.

I'll take that message the country. -- across the country. People in

:17:46.:17:50.

Scotland are entitled to hear the case for remaining in the EU. But he

:17:51.:17:54.

made the decision on of the parent of the arguments full. The

:17:55.:17:57.

pharmacist will today about the importance of taking express will of

:17:58.:18:02.

the people. That's the prominence there. Would take full account of

:18:03.:18:06.

the view of the bread -- status people and ensure that we both

:18:07.:18:09.

remain, we are not removed from the EU? I don't think I shall afford to

:18:10.:18:17.

that in this message to campaigning in Scotland. I enjoy doing that on

:18:18.:18:25.

the referendum. -- enjoy. I look forward to making this argument

:18:26.:18:28.

again, that would have been altogether. As we are better off. It

:18:29.:18:36.

is able in united kingdom decision. -- it is one. The opposite of always

:18:37.:18:45.

had the domination for the time. If he came back as ever abjured, -- and

:18:46.:18:52.

perhaps a cure, the biggest questions I have a my constituents

:18:53.:18:55.

are what are the positive and wish you would the deal -- voted on. It

:18:56.:19:02.

houses has a cicada, the military and also make the point that

:19:03.:19:05.

sovereignty cannot be more sovereign than 46 million people don't have

:19:06.:19:12.

their say. That which is not talk about the potential benefits of free

:19:13.:19:18.

trade, but there are some very simple practical benefits. -- not

:19:19.:19:26.

only talk about. Because open skies, prices are going on holidays and

:19:27.:19:29.

taking a flight anywhere a girl will come down something like 40%. And

:19:30.:19:35.

when you travel, you'll be able to access to digital content on

:19:36.:19:38.

Arafat's fast they can watch whatever you want. Wherever you are

:19:39.:19:45.

God. -- so you can watch whatever. That's wherever you are. Many of my

:19:46.:19:54.

constituents are somewhat too for their hugely concerned about the

:19:55.:19:59.

future the cat. Can the prominence it say what they believe the UK

:20:00.:20:02.

still in the street by the brunt brighter future if we were managing

:20:03.:20:06.

your abortive relief? -- UK steel industry.

:20:07.:20:13.

The point I would make is however difficult it is, they would have a

:20:14.:20:21.

better chance of dealing with Chinese overcapacity and dumping and

:20:22.:20:25.

all of it if we work as the biggest market in the world, to 500 million

:20:26.:20:32.

people. We can get some things done, the fifth-largest economy, but it is

:20:33.:20:35.

part of a 500 Megan, I think we can get more action. -- 500 million. A

:20:36.:20:43.

number of unemployed, somatic constituents has fallen by 80%. Will

:20:44.:20:47.

the Prime Minister agree with me to leave the EU now the so much

:20:48.:20:59.

uncertainty would risk a reversal? I think there is a simple point here,

:21:00.:21:03.

which is we live in uncertain times, we make good progress on the

:21:04.:21:06.

economy, and we should try to take the risk of weight from the economic

:21:07.:21:11.

performance, and clearly tended our status with the risk. -- changing

:21:12.:21:20.

our status. We have been enriched by freedom moment with corporations,

:21:21.:21:23.

and will remain relevant in global because of that seed we have in the

:21:24.:21:28.

European Union. All of which -- because of the seed. With that in

:21:29.:21:32.

mind, will the prominence or for some punch into a positive fight to

:21:33.:21:36.

remain incurable because when a front iPhone it it it was this

:21:37.:21:39.

conservative Prime Minister who listed to the Scottish national

:21:40.:21:42.

party who say Britain from his cell phone? -- say Britain from itself.

:21:43.:21:50.

There is for the part of his campaign and it will be positive.

:21:51.:21:55.

But I make no apologies that and making a positive campaign about

:21:56.:21:59.

jobs, and about business, and competitiveness, let's also examined

:22:00.:22:02.

the alternative. There's nothing wrong with doing that. As a member

:22:03.:22:10.

of the Neto, I has sent Nato operations around the world. That

:22:11.:22:16.

has. Does he agree with me that it's actually the 28 member nations of

:22:17.:22:22.

Nato, including non-EQ countries, like Norway, Turkey, Iceland, the

:22:23.:22:26.

United States and Canada, that is delivering our international

:22:27.:22:33.

security, but not an EU army? We don't want a EU army, and this

:22:34.:22:39.

document could really says that clearly said that our national

:22:40.:22:42.

security is a reserved matter for nation states. I think when you look

:22:43.:22:48.

in detail for what both Nato and the EU is done off the coast of Somalia,

:22:49.:22:52.

what is happening in the Mediterranean, what is Nato and the

:22:53.:22:56.

ease, the EU and the south, you need to be about these organisations.

:22:57.:22:59.

That should be involved of these. The Cantonment membership of the EU

:23:00.:23:13.

has been a force for good for trade, jobs, investments and international

:23:14.:23:24.

cooperation. -- the UK. The promoter prosperity and kept up at the

:23:25.:23:27.

ravages of two world wars. With a common set agreed that those who are

:23:28.:23:33.

campaigning so aggressively, to reject his negotiations, took a

:23:34.:23:35.

prison blues in the modern world are not only on the wrong side of the

:23:36.:23:40.

big argument on history as well? -- to cut Britain loose and the modern.

:23:41.:23:48.

I think there is a showcase for saying when we try to cut ourselves

:23:49.:23:54.

off, it ended in disaster and the need to re-engage at the end of

:23:55.:23:58.

that. We should always work to get our engagements fright wigs this

:23:59.:24:02.

deal is all about. -- engagement right which this deal. I'm standing

:24:03.:24:09.

at the side of the Prime Minister of this one. The promise as a hosted by

:24:10.:24:16.

me and my people and Morgan. In my constituency, we have the port which

:24:17.:24:20.

is 10% of our GDP going through it. Both from Northern Ireland. Also we

:24:21.:24:25.

have the ESP power stations, two nuclear stations. Which is the

:24:26.:24:29.

French government's sponsor. I want to see jobs lost in my constituency,

:24:30.:24:33.

especially as it has the lowest unemployment rate at this moment in

:24:34.:24:36.

time seen in generations. Would my friend agree with me on that

:24:37.:24:44.

synopsis? I agree that in the end, this is about jobs and livelihoods

:24:45.:24:47.

and I think that he stands up very well for his constituents. I

:24:48.:24:50.

remember visiting where we were looking at the Lake Road and I

:24:51.:24:56.

haven't ever everything into one fabric. I just hope it survives. --

:24:57.:25:03.

hammered into the bridge. Following his indication, that a series of

:25:04.:25:09.

documents would be published in relation to the foreign proposals,

:25:10.:25:14.

and on the 3rd of February, the Prime Minister referred to the

:25:15.:25:18.

impact of the free movement of people within Ireland and the

:25:19.:25:25.

removal of that street moment. If in the event of an exit, can the Prime

:25:26.:25:30.

Minister confirm Windows documents will be made available, so that we

:25:31.:25:36.

will be able to have a full and robust discussion, as people who

:25:37.:25:41.

want to remain within the European Union? I did the days of Windows

:25:42.:25:47.

will be published, but I will try to make sure -- it does not have the

:25:48.:25:55.

dates. Within the border another island, and the issue of the

:25:56.:25:58.

movement of people that can be triggered by that. -- Northern

:25:59.:26:05.

Ireland. One word that seems to come up around the report of the summit

:26:06.:26:09.

was contagion, as of other say following his lead with be a bad

:26:10.:26:13.

thing. But he agree that contagion could be a good thing and something

:26:14.:26:16.

that we should encourage? The 1-size-fits-all Europe is now a

:26:17.:26:23.

thing of the past. And we have now set a league which has several

:26:24.:26:30.

forms. -- Stanley. You're one of her work if we tried to make everybody

:26:31.:26:34.

1-size-fits-all as a country like Britain raises concerns and I'm glad

:26:35.:26:42.

to have been. -- to happen. Among the UK citizens living in the

:26:43.:26:50.

European Union, approximately 30,000 of them are claiming benefits in

:26:51.:26:53.

those European countries. How the Prime Minister package affect them?

:26:54.:27:01.

But we have negotiated is a welfare mechanism that the European

:27:02.:27:05.

Commission have said applies to present. So now we're able to pull

:27:06.:27:09.

this emergency brake and restrict benefits for seven years. It is up

:27:10.:27:12.

by other countries to determine whether they qualify and whether

:27:13.:27:17.

they are able to do that, but I'm in no doubt applies right-of-way in the

:27:18.:27:20.

UK, which is what I was determined to secure. The Prime Minister will

:27:21.:27:28.

be aware that we have partners and militarize outside of the EU. That

:27:29.:27:34.

heavily represented -- representations... As to whether

:27:35.:27:37.

they see better inside the EU or outside the. I all the conversations

:27:38.:27:42.

I've had, from our partners, our neighbours, countries that look to

:27:43.:27:45.

us as friends around the world, and I've been quite surprised by how

:27:46.:27:50.

unanimous and passionate to have been. Any sense that for instance,

:27:51.:27:54.

some of the countries of the Commonwealth might want Britain to

:27:55.:27:57.

step back from Europe and form some sort of new relationship with them,

:27:58.:28:02.

I would totally disabuse people of that idea. The Prime Minister of New

:28:03.:28:05.

Zealand, Canada, Australia, they cannot be more clear, the president

:28:06.:28:11.

of America about to give Britain should stay in a reformed European

:28:12.:28:16.

Union. In that way, they should looking out for them to sign

:28:17.:28:27.

Europe will continue to boost our commitments to watch military in

:28:28.:28:33.

case we have seen the last years. Last year and last summer there were

:28:34.:28:39.

attempts made to link those cases to membership of the European Union.

:28:40.:28:43.

Can the Prime Minister give us an assurance that the both of what

:28:44.:28:48.

happens this will be based solely on humanitarian necessity and as to how

:28:49.:28:54.

it will impact? Of course will do what is right. But I think it is

:28:55.:28:59.

important to address in the context of our membership this issue of

:29:00.:29:04.

migration. I make a number of points. One is that obviously

:29:05.:29:09.

outside Schengen and so that people coming to the EU don't have

:29:10.:29:13.

automatic right to come to Britain. Second I make the point that we are

:29:14.:29:17.

doing a very responsible thing in taking refugees direct from the

:29:18.:29:21.

region. Third we are working with our European partners to secure the

:29:22.:29:25.

external border. At the end of the day whether we are in the EU or out

:29:26.:29:30.

of the EU, we are affected by this problem in Europe. So we should be

:29:31.:29:34.

working with our partners to make sure that they can better control

:29:35.:29:36.

and stop in some cases the flow of and stop in some cases the flow of

:29:37.:29:43.

people to Europe. Some argue that we will be able to forge a better deals

:29:44.:29:46.

across the world by leaving the European Union. In the three years I

:29:47.:29:51.

have been a trade and what, I have not yet met a single representation

:29:52.:29:55.

that believed our trade investment would be better if we left the EU.

:29:56.:29:59.

Does my right honourable friend. LAUGHTER. Does my right honourable

:30:00.:30:04.

friend agree with me that the referendum is not about whether we

:30:05.:30:07.

should do business with your for the rest of the world, but that we

:30:08.:30:13.

should get the treat free trade agreement and always prioritise the

:30:14.:30:19.

EU. We are expanding our trade inside easy Asia. We have doubled

:30:20.:30:24.

our trade with China. I am very shocked that he used that countries

:30:25.:30:28.

have not said that they want to get out of a trade deal with us. They

:30:29.:30:32.

are saying to state within the EU and that the EU will be bigger and

:30:33.:30:44.

better. The Prime Minister maximises the case. I am trying to confirm

:30:45.:30:49.

rumours that he has been exploiting the situation to his own self

:30:50.:30:53.

interests. He has opened a private book on his successor. Can the Prime

:30:54.:30:56.

Minister confirm this can he give up the claim of where the money is

:30:57.:31:01.

flowing and will he guaranteed to extend the syndicate to the rest of

:31:02.:31:08.

us. LAUGHTER. My father was an gambler and I remember sitting on a

:31:09.:31:12.

Saturday watching him betting on race after race. While I enjoyed all

:31:13.:31:16.

that pulled, I have always tried to stay away from it myself. So I am

:31:17.:31:21.

not writing a book. All I know is that I will do the right thing for

:31:22.:31:24.

this country and the right thing for this country is to read -- remained

:31:25.:31:33.

in the reformed EU. Agreement. The mood is that today they could cut

:31:34.:31:38.

Britain's credit rating. This and let the UK manages to negotiate new

:31:39.:31:43.

trade arrangement with the EU, that deserves at least some of the trade

:31:44.:31:48.

benefits, the exports will suffer and go on to uncertainty in negative

:31:49.:31:53.

investment. Is that a fear or warning from the world. There are

:31:54.:31:58.

important economic consequences that we do need to so people can see all

:31:59.:32:03.

the potential downsides and what they are. This is what I think it's

:32:04.:32:08.

a leap in the dark. How long it would take to put trade deals in

:32:09.:32:12.

place and how damaging that could be. It would be irresponsible to put

:32:13.:32:16.

in front of the British people with the consequences of the changes are.

:32:17.:32:29.

Hear, hear!. Mr Speaker that disbursements of car payments.

:32:30.:32:39.

Convergence of less in the EU pervaded the UK which is actually

:32:40.:32:42.

based on the payments that the farmers received. That would make it

:32:43.:32:51.

much easier for farmers. I'll look carefully at what the Honorable

:32:52.:32:54.

general is that. My memory of the camp deal and the finance deal are

:32:55.:32:59.

the consequences whether we gave a huge amount of leeway to the

:33:00.:33:02.

devolved administrations to determine the right way to spend the

:33:03.:33:08.

money and actually farmers benefit from the way this is done. But I

:33:09.:33:12.

will look very carefully at the point he makes. Speaking I think the

:33:13.:33:21.

Prime Minister for all his for all his work on behalf of our country

:33:22.:33:24.

over the last months and years. Exports to China to Germany from the

:33:25.:33:29.

UK as shown in significant increases. Does not this showed that

:33:30.:33:33.

the opportunities for trade outside the EU are not what some would a

:33:34.:33:39.

constraint by membership of the EU. You don't is that your trade with

:33:40.:33:44.

China by doing listed with the EU. He's absolutely right. Last year

:33:45.:33:53.

every single colleague on this side of the House stood successfully

:33:54.:33:56.

under the leadership of my right honourable friend the one niche and

:33:57.:34:02.

conservative team. Would my right honourable friend agree with me that

:34:03.:34:05.

what ever that use of members on this side of the House, and for that

:34:06.:34:10.

matter I fully support the Prime Minister, what about the abuse and

:34:11.:34:16.

the outcome of the European union referendum, we must unify once again

:34:17.:34:20.

as a party to ensure that you ever our path into the 2020 election does

:34:21.:34:25.

not allow accidentally Jeremy Quarterman and his Labour

:34:26.:34:30.

colleagues. I agree this is always going to be a difficult process went

:34:31.:34:34.

in the Labour Party as well as in the Conservative Party there are

:34:35.:34:36.

people on both sides of the debate. I think this is such a big question

:34:37.:34:41.

and questions that will be answered ultimately by people rather than

:34:42.:34:44.

politicians. We should all be big enough to have an honest but open

:34:45.:34:47.

and polite disagreement and then come back together afterwards. I

:34:48.:34:58.

take the Prime Minister back to an election commitment in 2014 when he

:34:59.:35:02.

and I along with thousands of conservative activists campaigned on

:35:03.:35:05.

a promise to restore control of our borders. The Prime Minister says in

:35:06.:35:11.

that year I will go to Brussels and I will not take no for an answer.

:35:12.:35:14.

When it comes to free movement I will get what Britain needs. What

:35:15.:35:18.

changed last week was like what changed last week is that we are

:35:19.:35:22.

reforming to make sure that we can keep our fraudsters criminals and

:35:23.:35:29.

those peddling sham marriages, make sure we can apply British rules to

:35:30.:35:33.

foreign nationals to European citizens as well. The secretary

:35:34.:35:38.

negotiated incredibly hard knowing this was the one moment we had the

:35:39.:35:44.

ability to make these changes and reversed European court judgements

:35:45.:35:48.

in order that we do reform free movement. This is that what we have

:35:49.:35:56.

done. I thank my Honorable friend for the referendum first of all. He

:35:57.:36:00.

and I fundamentally disagree as he notes. My concerns for immigration

:36:01.:36:04.

which he said he would contain, we have a net migration of about 1000

:36:05.:36:14.

40,000 at the moment. Every year that is the size of a small city in

:36:15.:36:20.

this country. Surely that is unsustainable and what his position

:36:21.:36:25.

is and will not prevent that from happening. Where I agree with my

:36:26.:36:29.

Honorable friend is that we have to do more to control immigration. We

:36:30.:36:33.

look at the net migration in the UK, it is made up of half and half

:36:34.:36:37.

roughly. Half outside the EU which shows us what we need to do to shut

:36:38.:36:42.

down the bogus colleges to make sure that people are coming unfairly.

:36:43.:36:46.

Would end the EU the most we can do is to withdraw the artificial draw

:36:47.:36:50.

of additional welfare payments. The fact that people can get ?10,000 in

:36:51.:36:55.

the first year they come, surely that is an important determination.

:36:56.:37:00.

I am convinced of the convex measures we can get immigration down

:37:01.:37:03.

and do it while we're waiting is member the European Union. During

:37:04.:37:08.

the general election it was reported that the Prime Minister had

:37:09.:37:11.

expressed some concern about the coverage of the BBC in the election

:37:12.:37:16.

and his impartiality. What assurances can the Prime Minister

:37:17.:37:20.

give me so I can relate that to my constituents that BBC won't abuse

:37:21.:37:27.

its position against? LAUGHTER Politicians complaining about the

:37:28.:37:32.

BBC is a pretty common activity. I remember the former First Minister

:37:33.:37:34.

of Scotland getting quite heated about this issue. Every media

:37:35.:37:41.

organisation is under obligation. Sorry let me restate that. That is

:37:42.:37:46.

not true the newspapers. Every regulated television business is

:37:47.:37:53.

under duty of impartiality. But I'm sure that they will carry that out.

:37:54.:38:01.

I think the Prime Minister and all colleagues and all 103 backbenchers

:38:02.:38:05.

who took part in this important exchange. Before we proceed, I will

:38:06.:38:13.

of course take points of order. Thank you Mr Speaker. I made the

:38:14.:38:21.

office is aware of my attentions. Mr Speaker last week after much delay

:38:22.:38:26.

the long waited reports on the mental health task force was

:38:27.:38:29.

published. On the same government day -- day the government made a

:38:30.:38:32.

series of announcements to the media in response to the report. This is a

:38:33.:38:36.

courtesy that is still yet to be afforded to this house. Mr Speaker

:38:37.:38:40.

this is a vital moment for mental health in England. This is highly

:38:41.:38:46.

regrettable that this report was published during recess preventing

:38:47.:38:49.

members from all sides of this house from scrutinising its findings and

:38:50.:38:53.

questioning the government on the response to it. Can you advise the

:38:54.:38:58.

Mr Speaker or whether you had given any indication from ministers on

:38:59.:39:02.

whether they plan to make a statement on the mental health task

:39:03.:39:05.

force and allow the opportunity to question the government on

:39:06.:39:12.

announcements that they have made? Thanks to Lady for her order and

:39:13.:39:17.

given me a chance to respond to it. Now I have not received an

:39:18.:39:20.

indication that the Minister plans to make a statement on the matter.

:39:21.:39:25.

What I would say provisionally, on the basis of having learned of this

:39:26.:39:31.

matter, only this morning. Significant announcements of changes

:39:32.:39:36.

in policy should be made first to the House. That means save in cases

:39:37.:39:42.

of emergency to the House, while it is sitting. Of course Honorable

:39:43.:39:47.

members and others can and do access to reports, whether or not the rep

:39:48.:39:53.

house is sitting and can pursue their content in debate and in

:39:54.:40:00.

questions. In this case I will cause further inquiries to be made on the

:40:01.:40:03.

content and timing of this particular announcement. Point of

:40:04.:40:13.

order Mr Alberto Costa. Begu Mr Speaker. When referring to

:40:14.:40:19.

parliamentary sovereignty and its affect across the United Kingdom,

:40:20.:40:26.

specifically Mr Speaker I seek your guidance on how the parliamentary

:40:27.:40:32.

sovereignty should applies equally in Scotland as it doesn't in

:40:33.:40:36.

England. This is not within in the 1953 McCormick case of course. Order

:40:37.:40:45.

I say today's of the Honorable gentleman. I am trying to be kind to

:40:46.:40:51.

the Honorable gentleman who is a new member. If the Honorable gentleman

:40:52.:40:56.

wants to raise points of order to argue about the proprieties of

:40:57.:40:59.

parliamentary procedure, perhaps he would learn that in Leader of the

:41:00.:41:08.

Opposition, he should not call him by name. People have really got to

:41:09.:41:13.

be careful of their own sound ground if they start playing the procedural

:41:14.:41:18.

card. Secondly I said very kindly to the honourable gentleman and, whose

:41:19.:41:22.

intellect and eloquence are of course evident to all, LAUGHTER.

:41:23.:41:32.

This does not seem to need to be a matter of a point of appointed

:41:33.:41:39.

order. This is an argument between opposing lawyers. We'll leave it

:41:40.:41:49.

there for now. OK if there are no further points of order, perhaps we

:41:50.:41:55.

can first best proceed with our later business. The court will now

:41:56.:42:03.

read the orders of the The Northern Ireland storm and agreements

:42:04.:42:15.

reading. I call to move the second reading of the bill. The second

:42:16.:42:21.

Terry of state of Northern Ireland. Thank you Mr Speaker. I would like

:42:22.:42:25.

to move that the bill now be read in second time. This gives key elements

:42:26.:42:32.

of the 2015 and the Stormont House Agreement of 20 15. This is an

:42:33.:42:39.

review of implementation of those agreements which taken together have

:42:40.:42:43.

the potential to secure a more peaceful, stable, and prosperous

:42:44.:42:46.

future for Northern Ireland. Before returning to the detail of the

:42:47.:42:50.

causes, I will remind the House of some background to their content. As

:42:51.:42:54.

the House will recall, followed December ten weeks of intensive

:42:55.:42:58.

talks the government along with the Northern Ireland's executive parties

:42:59.:43:04.

and the Irish reach the storm and house agreement on December 23 of

:43:05.:43:10.

2014. That address many of the most mythic and challenges facing

:43:11.:43:13.

Northern Ireland. Some of those such as not standing agreements over

:43:14.:43:18.

flags parading in the past. These were damaging to political

:43:19.:43:21.

relationships within the default is that the tubes. Of these particular

:43:22.:43:29.

what the state of the executives finance and jeopardising the

:43:30.:43:33.

effectiveness and even the continues dependability of the devolution

:43:34.:43:38.

itself. That agreement included proposals to give the executive and

:43:39.:43:42.

workable and sustainable budget, to set a path to which it dissolving

:43:43.:43:46.

contingent issues around lack symbols and parading, to establish

:43:47.:43:52.

new bodies to tackle the legacy of Northern Ireland's past, and to

:43:53.:43:55.

deliver reforms that things will work better. All of this was

:43:56.:44:00.

underpinned by a financial package giving the executives around to

:44:01.:44:04.

billions in actual spending. The Stormont House Agreement was and

:44:05.:44:13.

remains a good deal for Northern Ireland. By last summer it was clear

:44:14.:44:15.

that implementation had stalled. This is largely due to disagreements

:44:16.:44:22.

within the executive team. They also withdrew their support for the

:44:23.:44:26.

welfare reform package. As the stand is off continued this happened in

:44:27.:44:31.

effect in preventing decisions of other elements of the agreement.

:44:32.:44:37.

Sadly the sense of crisis was intensified by to brutal murders in

:44:38.:44:42.

Belfast -- one in May and one in August. This is what again raised

:44:43.:44:47.

the spectre of the malign influence of the paramilitary activity on the

:44:48.:44:51.

streets of Northern Ireland. As we entered last autumn, the political

:44:52.:44:55.

situation was looking increasingly perilous. We face a real prospect

:44:56.:45:01.

that reservations might treble trigger early elections and easily

:45:02.:45:08.

lead to the collapse of the devolved institutions. That would have been a

:45:09.:45:12.

very major setback. After all that has been achieved on the successive

:45:13.:45:16.

governments during the past 20 years. It was an outcome that the

:45:17.:45:20.

government was strenuously and decisively acting to try and avoid.

:45:21.:45:27.

Firstly in a speech in Cambridge on the 5th of September, I make clear

:45:28.:45:31.

that we could not let the financial imparts continued indefinitely. If

:45:32.:45:35.

there was not a resolution to the dispute, we would be left with no

:45:36.:45:39.

option but to legislate for Greece -- welfare reform in Westminster.

:45:40.:45:43.

Secondly on following discussions with my right honourable friend the

:45:44.:45:47.

Prime Minister, it was decided that the time was right to have a second

:45:48.:45:50.

round of cross party talks which began at storm in how on the 8th of

:45:51.:45:55.

December. Once again these included the five largest part of the

:45:56.:46:01.

Northern Ireland Assembly. In accordance with the long established

:46:02.:46:05.

three standard approach to Northern Ireland affairs. The objectives we

:46:06.:46:12.

set ourselves were twofold. To secure the full implementation of

:46:13.:46:15.

the Stormont House Agreement and also to work with paramilitary --

:46:16.:46:22.

paramilitary activity. These concluded on the 17th of November

:46:23.:46:26.

with a document entitled the fresh start Stormont agreement and

:46:27.:46:31.

implementation plan. This was agreed between the UK Government the Irish

:46:32.:46:37.

government and the national is in the executives. In the governments

:46:38.:46:41.

view that agreement goes a long way to satisfy the objectives that the

:46:42.:46:45.

participants of the talks that themselves. It gives the executive a

:46:46.:46:50.

stable and sustainable budget, including wealth over form. It am

:46:51.:46:55.

blocked progress on other crucial elements of the Stormont House

:46:56.:47:00.

Agreement. And on parent military activity, the agreement strongly

:47:01.:47:06.

prefers for the long and places fresh obligations on Northern

:47:07.:47:09.

Ireland's political representatives to work together with determination

:47:10.:47:14.

to reach society and filled urgently -- paramilitary activity. That

:47:15.:47:17.

agreement by the previous one was underpinned by financial package

:47:18.:47:20.

from the UK Government this time worth up to half alien pounds. I can

:47:21.:47:27.

inform the House of progress on his limitation of the agreement has been

:47:28.:47:31.

good. The day after it was reached on the 18th of November, the

:47:32.:47:36.

assembly passed the latest live -- legislative consent motion for the

:47:37.:47:42.

-- Westminster to go ahead. The subsequent Northern Ireland welfare

:47:43.:47:48.

reform act was given on the 25th of November and the related woods has

:47:49.:47:51.

on the 20th of December. The government is now working on the

:47:52.:47:55.

secondary legislation to deliver the new welfare system in Northern

:47:56.:47:58.

Ireland. We hope to be in a position to begin bringing this forward

:47:59.:48:04.

shortly with a view to completing its passage through both houses as

:48:05.:48:08.

soon as we are able to. On the 21st of December, the UK and Irish

:48:09.:48:12.

governments along with the Northern Ireland Executive established a

:48:13.:48:17.

joint agency task force to reinforce efforts to tackle cross

:48:18.:48:21.

jurisdictional organised crime. The executive has established a 3-person

:48:22.:48:26.

panel to make recommendations for a ranging strategy to expand

:48:27.:48:33.

paramilitary groups. The appointments for the new commission

:48:34.:48:37.

is underway. A bill of the government departments from 12 to

:48:38.:48:40.

not have completed its consideration in the assembly and a further bill

:48:41.:48:45.

to reduce the number of MLA in their prestigious seat from six to five is

:48:46.:48:48.

set for a final stage of consideration in the assembly

:48:49.:48:54.

tomorrow. The bill before the House today represents further significant

:48:55.:48:58.

progress doing with elements of the fresh start agreement which require

:48:59.:49:01.

UK Government legislation. Clauses one through five are to be agreed

:49:02.:49:08.

between the UK and Irish governments and will establish the independent

:49:09.:49:13.

report commissioned. The bill sets out the commissions primary

:49:14.:49:17.

objective to promote progress toward ending paramilitary activity

:49:18.:49:20.

collected with Northern Ireland. It will report on progress towards that

:49:21.:49:24.

objective and on the implementation of relevant measures by the UK

:49:25.:49:27.

Government, the Irish government, and the executive, which we were

:49:28.:49:33.

greeted in the fresh start agreement. The bill makes provision

:49:34.:49:39.

for key aspects including the duties to which it will be subject and the

:49:40.:49:44.

legal privileges to be conferred on it as an international body. These

:49:45.:49:48.

are intended to make sure that the commission is able to engage with a

:49:49.:49:52.

range of sources of information in performing its important functions,

:49:53.:49:57.

but avoids doing anything that might put safety and national security at

:49:58.:50:02.

risk. I appreciate the honourable members looking at the text of the

:50:03.:50:05.

treaty. It is not possible to provide that today because it is not

:50:06.:50:09.

yet agreed between the UK and Irish governments. But of course we will

:50:10.:50:14.

pay for -- plays a copy in the House library as soon as possible in June.

:50:15.:50:25.

The remaining Clause talks about allocation after 14 days after the

:50:26.:50:28.

assembly meets following an election. The purpose of this

:50:29.:50:34.

agreement and change will allow parties more time to agree on a

:50:35.:50:39.

cross party but basis prior to the allocation of ministerial positions.

:50:40.:50:44.

It is hoped that this will encourage all parties approach to a programme

:50:45.:50:52.

for Government. Clause seven will talk about the fresh start agreement

:50:53.:50:56.

and giving unequivocal support to the rule of law and to work

:50:57.:51:00.

collectively to achieve a society free of paramilitary for. Clause

:51:01.:51:07.

eight introduces a similar undertaking by all members of the

:51:08.:51:11.

assembly -- assembly. Clause nine talks about the commitment of it

:51:12.:51:19.

can't relent, with assembly consent to increase fiscal transparency in

:51:20.:51:24.

executive budgets. That's helping the executive to deliver affordable

:51:25.:51:35.

and sustainable budgets. If I may take a back to talk on a new pledge

:51:36.:51:44.

introduced for all MLS that they can not participate in any procedures

:51:45.:51:49.

and do anything with the assembly unless they have taken this new

:51:50.:51:52.

pledge. However when they have taken the new pledge, what do they do to

:51:53.:52:00.

be faithful to honour and who actually decides? Not shooting of

:52:01.:52:08.

any sanctions for the actions of MLA is an matter for the assembly rather

:52:09.:52:11.

than for the legislation here today and for this chamber. I am grateful

:52:12.:52:17.

to the Honorable Lady for her intervention. Going back to Clause

:52:18.:52:22.

nine, it provides that the Northern Ireland Executive Finance Minister

:52:23.:52:27.

will have a duty to specify... Thank you this doesn't deputy speaker I'm

:52:28.:52:37.

very sorry to... In response by the Secretary of State. Clause eight

:52:38.:52:43.

Ashley goes on to say that standing orders should provide the procedure,

:52:44.:52:51.

given the ever taken, that there will be standing orders passed by

:52:52.:52:54.

the assembly about sanctions for those MLS who do not honour so it

:52:55.:53:02.

must be this legislation. I did not mean my answer to sound flippant or

:53:03.:53:06.

not serious at all but it remains the case that the bill does not

:53:07.:53:12.

provide for sanctions nor does the fresh start agreement. In terms of

:53:13.:53:15.

internal matters of discipline within the assembly, that really is

:53:16.:53:20.

an matter for the assembly is held to determine. What I can provide is

:53:21.:53:26.

further clarification for this, obviously an individual who refuses

:53:27.:53:30.

to give the undertaking will be able to participate in assembly

:53:31.:53:35.

proceedings or received any of the privileges. I returned to Clause

:53:36.:53:43.

nine. It provides that the Northern Ireland Finance Minister will have a

:53:44.:53:46.

duty to specify to the assembly the amount of government funding

:53:47.:53:52.

available. The Minister will then need to show when delivering aid

:53:53.:53:56.

draft a budget the amount of government funding required by that

:53:57.:54:01.

draft budget does not exceed the amount specified. She agreed that

:54:02.:54:13.

the provisions that were outlined to the extent here. Should members not

:54:14.:54:17.

take their oath here and they receive privileges and benefits here

:54:18.:54:24.

and are not excluded, maybe we should be learning something from

:54:25.:54:29.

the situation in Northern Ireland. I am very much aware of his concerns

:54:30.:54:34.

and his parties about such matters and of course the issues relating to

:54:35.:54:38.

the privileges and expenses are house business and he and his

:54:39.:54:41.

colleagues are welcome to praise them at any time for the House to

:54:42.:54:46.

consider those matters. Of course we are looking at short money on those

:54:47.:54:54.

matters as well. Just to take another step back in relation to the

:54:55.:54:57.

cross borders task force, I understand the meeting was held in

:54:58.:55:03.

December 2050 to establish that. Can you clarify for us today how often

:55:04.:55:10.

that passport will meet or is scheduled to meet? I think we need

:55:11.:55:15.

to distinguish between the ministerial meeting which was a one

:55:16.:55:20.

off from the agency task force which will meet regularly. I don't know

:55:21.:55:24.

that it has scheduled a timetable of meetings as yet. I'm sure once it

:55:25.:55:28.

does I can supply him with details of that. One would expect it to meet

:55:29.:55:33.

regularly to come to its important work. I know that the membership is

:55:34.:55:37.

being formulated. So it is already cracking on with its work. Yes.

:55:38.:55:45.

Certainly. Would she agree with me that the cross-border cooperation

:55:46.:55:51.

and the issues of organised crime are made much easier if the Republic

:55:52.:55:55.

of Ireland and Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK are members of

:55:56.:56:00.

the European Union? What I was wondering when that subject would

:56:01.:56:02.

come up. LAUGHTER . I can assure him that there are a

:56:03.:56:07.

whole range of reasons why the relationship between the UK and

:56:08.:56:10.

Ireland has improved massively over recent years. So Mr Speaker that

:56:11.:56:17.

outlines the main features of the short but important piece of the

:56:18.:56:22.

Northern Ireland legislation. Thank you for giving way Secretary of

:56:23.:56:26.

State. There is one area that is not in this bill. Can a security Terry

:56:27.:56:31.

of state informed us or confirm for us when the legacy bill will be

:56:32.:56:37.

coming forward because there aren't many people through northern Ireland

:56:38.:56:40.

who are deeply grieving and want to know when those proposals will come

:56:41.:56:47.

forward. Well the honourable member raises a very important issue which

:56:48.:56:50.

I was about to come onto. Sadly I will not be able to give her a date

:56:51.:56:56.

for presentation of that legislation but I shall go into and I am

:56:57.:57:01.

determined to work as hard as I can to build the consensus necessary to

:57:02.:57:04.

allow us to introduce that legislation. I agree with her that

:57:05.:57:07.

is very important that we press ahead. So Mr Speaker I must put on

:57:08.:57:13.

record my gratitude to her majesties opposition to agreeing to a somewhat

:57:14.:57:18.

faster than usual passage for this legislation through the House. This

:57:19.:57:22.

should enable measures related to the pledge of offers the undertaking

:57:23.:57:28.

and the extension of time available, to be in place in time for the new

:57:29.:57:33.

assembly when it meets in May. It will enable the new independent

:57:34.:57:37.

reporting commission to be established as soon as possible. I

:57:38.:57:42.

am very conscious of the honourable ladies pointed there are important

:57:43.:57:45.

elements in the storm and house agreement that are sadly not in the

:57:46.:57:48.

building we are discussing today. I refer of

:57:49.:57:59.

Given that this legislation is going to be fast tracked, can the

:58:00.:58:04.

Secretary of State give an undertaking that the legacy bill

:58:05.:58:09.

will not be fast tracked and her commitment to building consensus

:58:10.:58:12.

will take proper consideration of victims and not just being cobbled

:58:13.:58:17.

between parties? I think any to reflect on that but I would

:58:18.:58:21.

definitely agree with them that the legacy bill is very much in a

:58:22.:58:26.

different category to these two pieces of legislation, the one that

:58:27.:58:28.

we are looking at today and the welfare legislation. So in those

:58:29.:58:34.

circumstances, we should do everything in our ability to make

:58:35.:58:37.

sure everything has a normal timetable though if you allow me, I

:58:38.:58:40.

will not give an absolute undertaking on that for the purposes

:58:41.:58:44.

of today, but I think if we get to the stage of being able to present

:58:45.:58:47.

that else a parliament, it is highly likely we want to proceed with it on

:58:48.:58:52.

the basis of an ordinary timetable rather than an expedited one rather

:58:53.:58:58.

than the -- given the circumstances. Returning to those legacy bodies, as

:58:59.:59:02.

I set out in my speech in Belfast on the 11th of February, we remain

:59:03.:59:07.

committed to establishing these bodies. We have a manifesto

:59:08.:59:10.

commitment to do that. We will continue with our efforts to build

:59:11.:59:14.

consensus needed to allow us to present legislation to this house.

:59:15.:59:18.

We have made more progress than any of our predecessors in getting close

:59:19.:59:25.

to and achieving an agreement on the past. We are now closer than ever in

:59:26.:59:29.

resolving the main outstanding problems standing in the way of

:59:30.:59:33.

getting these new bodies set up and operating. I am going to continue to

:59:34.:59:40.

engage with the political parties in Northern Ireland, with victims and

:59:41.:59:44.

survivors, and with those who represent and I'm particularly

:59:45.:59:49.

grateful for the commission of victims and survivors and trying to

:59:50.:59:53.

facilitate this process and working hard to try with me to build

:59:54.:59:56.

consensus for these new bodies will stop I give way. Just on the legacy

:59:57.:00:02.

issue, would she agree with me that one element of the legacy issue that

:00:03.:00:10.

is paramount in the minds of many survivors is that under no account,

:00:11.:00:14.

under no circumstances, must Northern Ireland going forward be

:00:15.:00:18.

presented as a case of those who are perpetrators of violence are treated

:00:19.:00:22.

in the same weight as those who are innocent victims of that very

:00:23.:00:27.

violence? I entirely agree with them. We on this side of the House

:00:28.:00:31.

will not accept a rewrite of history. I think we should always

:00:32.:00:35.

recall that the dedication and sacrifice made by both the I you see

:00:36.:00:42.

and services in Northern Ireland, we should salute that sacrifice and in

:00:43.:00:46.

the vast majority of cases, the members of the security forces

:00:47.:00:50.

perform their duties with the outmost integrity and

:00:51.:00:55.

professionalism. I also want to pay tribute to the dignity and

:00:56.:00:59.

determination with which victims and survivors approach these matters

:01:00.:01:05.

under discussion of the legacy. I have been deeply moved on many

:01:06.:01:09.

occasions when I met victims and survivors to hear of their

:01:10.:01:13.

experiences and tragedies. I have welcomed the chance to meet many of

:01:14.:01:18.

them over my years of Secretary of State. They have divergent views on

:01:19.:01:22.

a number of issues but almost all of them are agreement that the current

:01:23.:01:27.

mechanisms for tackling legacy cases are not working as they should. The

:01:28.:01:30.

legacy bodies proposed in the Stormont House agreement will not be

:01:31.:01:35.

perfect and sadly, even when they are set up, they will not provide

:01:36.:01:39.

every answer to every question. Sadly there is no set of solutions

:01:40.:01:43.

that we can devise here in Stormont that could ever achievement. --

:01:44.:01:48.

achieved that. But there is a significant better outcome for

:01:49.:01:53.

victims and survivors in the status quo and for that reason, we will

:01:54.:01:57.

continue to pursue them with diligence and dedication. As a

:01:58.:02:02.

result of the Stormont house and Fresh Start Agreement, I think

:02:03.:02:05.

politics in Northern Ireland are probably more stable now than they

:02:06.:02:10.

have been in the past three years. Economically, while there was

:02:11.:02:13.

undoubtedly some heartbreaking news from a place last week, it is still

:02:14.:02:19.

the case that there are 46,000 more people in work since 2010 and the

:02:20.:02:23.

unemployment register is down by more than 40% since its peak in

:02:24.:02:28.

2013. The Fresh Start Agreement also takes us closer to the point when we

:02:29.:02:33.

are able to complete the transfer of Corporation tax powers to the

:02:34.:02:36.

executive and move which I believe could have a transformative effect

:02:37.:02:41.

on the economy there. As we go forward, there'll continue to be

:02:42.:02:43.

difficulties and challenges, I hardly need to remind the House that

:02:44.:02:49.

despite some success in suppressing their activities, the threat from

:02:50.:02:52.

distant Republicans is severe and the need for vigilance is constant.

:02:53.:02:57.

We are also of cores approaching some very sensitive since injuries,,

:02:58.:03:03.

iterations that could have deferred meanings for different parts of the

:03:04.:03:08.

community. But Northern Ireland is entering 2016 more positively than

:03:09.:03:12.

for some time. For our part, the government remains determined to

:03:13.:03:15.

deliver its manifesto commitment to help build a brighter, more secure

:03:16.:03:19.

future for Northern Ireland, this bill is intended to help that

:03:20.:03:22.

process and I commend it to the House. The question is that the bill

:03:23.:03:28.

be read a second time. Thank you very much. Can I welcome the

:03:29.:03:35.

Secretary of State to the debate. I hope she stays in.

:03:36.:03:45.

LAUGHTER Mr Deputy Speaker, this bill delivers some of the key

:03:46.:03:51.

aspects of the 17th of November 2015 fresh start and indeed the 2014

:03:52.:03:56.

Stormont House agreement. These agreements sent a financial pass

:03:57.:04:03.

Bell impasse in Northern Ireland that exposed us to the very real

:04:04.:04:07.

possibility of a return to direct role, which would have been

:04:08.:04:11.

disastrous. It is therefore of course very welcome. An interest in

:04:12.:04:17.

the sun since the bill. It is crucial that we stress the

:04:18.:04:23.

importance of economic development, the Secretary of State herself

:04:24.:04:26.

announced that the job losses in Bob RDA last week were a terrible blow

:04:27.:04:30.

to advanced manufacturing in Northern Ireland. And a personal

:04:31.:04:33.

tragedy for those losing their jobs as well as families. Who will now of

:04:34.:04:37.

course be seeking employment elsewhere. Jobs in Northern Ireland

:04:38.:04:43.

across the UK is crucial as the strength of the economy and

:04:44.:04:45.

opportunity helps to deliver progress. Of course the place

:04:46.:04:54.

investigates and eight -- works in a competitive market and that market

:04:55.:04:57.

is not as strong as we would like. However the government has a

:04:58.:05:01.

responsibility. So what is the government doing to support those

:05:02.:05:07.

who remain at Anbar DA. And what is the government doing to make sure

:05:08.:05:10.

those people are finding employment as swiftly as possible. And when the

:05:11.:05:15.

Minister of state comes up can he say more about that, what I've --

:05:16.:05:22.

what steps she and he will be having the rest of the government to

:05:23.:05:25.

encourage more direct foreign investment into Northern Ireland? Mr

:05:26.:05:31.

Deputy Speaker as we begin to discuss the bill, let's also remind

:05:32.:05:35.

ourselves that the previous 12 months in Ireland have not been

:05:36.:05:41.

easy. In the summer on the budgetary stalemate on the issue of welfare,

:05:42.:05:46.

that led to a political crisis which required all of the skill and

:05:47.:05:50.

commitment of those involved to get an agreement which would break the

:05:51.:05:55.

stalemate that existed. And allow progress to be made. I have said

:05:56.:06:00.

before, and want to put on record again, all of those involved

:06:01.:06:04.

including the Secretary of states, all of the parties in Northern

:06:05.:06:07.

Ireland, many of whom represented here and many of the members are

:06:08.:06:11.

represented. And the Irish government, they all deserve huge

:06:12.:06:15.

credit for achieving the Fresh Start Agreement. Without, as I said, there

:06:16.:06:21.

is a real risk of the collapse of devolution or its return to direct

:06:22.:06:26.

role. Either of which will have been unthinkable. I know there was huge

:06:27.:06:29.

disappointment as well that no agreement could be reached as we

:06:30.:06:32.

have heard on how to deal with the past. I and many others raise this

:06:33.:06:36.

issue in the House over the last few weeks and months. However, I know

:06:37.:06:43.

that progress was made. I am glad the Secretary of State has said and

:06:44.:06:46.

reiterated that now is not the time to give up but to try and build on

:06:47.:06:50.

the progress that has been made while recognising the challenges and

:06:51.:06:54.

difficulties that remain. The publication of the draft treaty on

:06:55.:06:57.

independent commission on information, which I think was very

:06:58.:07:02.

welcome, not only to show the direction of travel, but also to

:07:03.:07:08.

show how much progress was made indeed in the talks. Victims must be

:07:09.:07:14.

at the heart of any future agreements. And the heart of any

:07:15.:07:20.

agreement. That is clear to us all. The recent allegations in respect to

:07:21.:07:23.

various atrocities of the past demonstrate more than ever the need

:07:24.:07:26.

for process to be agreed. But victims must feel that they are not

:07:27.:07:32.

locked out of any progress and that is why I urge the Secretary of State

:07:33.:07:36.

to be as transparent as possible, even where difficulty remains, and

:07:37.:07:40.

as we continue to seek an agreement. Can I also say to the Secretary of

:07:41.:07:44.

State, given an agreement has not been reached on how to deal with the

:07:45.:07:47.

past and could not be included in this bill, we do need to look at the

:07:48.:07:56.

resources available to the corner services and others to support

:07:57.:08:00.

investigations to speed up the inquests that they continue to be

:08:01.:08:05.

required to do. More and more delay for victims is unacceptable. Would

:08:06.:08:13.

my honourable friend agree as I do with the first Minister of Northern

:08:14.:08:16.

Ireland who said that we need to get real about the investigations into

:08:17.:08:23.

these legacy cases. The PSI investigate within the budget

:08:24.:08:26.

constraints and they have to prioritise and they are doing more

:08:27.:08:31.

and more and they should receive funding from here, not having to

:08:32.:08:34.

take from their own resources to deal with the legacy of the past? I

:08:35.:08:39.

agree very much with the point that my honourable friend has made. I

:08:40.:08:45.

agree with the first Minister and others in Northern Ireland to have

:08:46.:08:49.

pointed out that notwithstanding the agreement has not been reached at

:08:50.:08:53.

how to deal with the legacy issues, the coroners office and others are

:08:54.:08:59.

still required to deal with the consequences of these issues. And

:09:00.:09:02.

therefore given that the Secretary of State has now put aside money,

:09:03.:09:06.

pending any agreement, surely it would be acceptable to give some of

:09:07.:09:11.

this money to those bodies to reflect on the continuing work that

:09:12.:09:14.

they have to do in trying to investigate and resolve some of the

:09:15.:09:17.

difficulties that they face. I think that is a perfectly reasonable

:09:18.:09:22.

request that has been made. I know she will not be able to answer that

:09:23.:09:26.

now but I think it is something the Secretary of State and the Minister

:09:27.:09:29.

of State with the government should consider in order to take forward.

:09:30.:09:35.

The Fresh Start Agreement does make it clear that the 150 million

:09:36.:09:40.

package to support legacy is linked to the establishment of the new

:09:41.:09:45.

bodies but, we are listening carefully to the representations

:09:46.:09:50.

made in particular to the inquests. If a form package for inquests will

:09:51.:09:53.

put together than we put together the inquests funding to support it.

:09:54.:10:01.

I think that is a helpful response from the secretary of state and I

:10:02.:10:05.

think everybody in this house and in Northern Ireland would have heard

:10:06.:10:07.

what she has just said and the implication of it is that she is

:10:08.:10:13.

open to making money available, both to the PSI and to the corner

:10:14.:10:16.

services in order to take this forward. I think the victims would

:10:17.:10:20.

expect that. They know it is difficult to come to an agreement in

:10:21.:10:24.

respect to how to do with the past, the institutions or proposed

:10:25.:10:29.

institutions are there. But at the agreement is not yet reached but the

:10:30.:10:33.

work has to be taken forward. Given that the money is there, we would

:10:34.:10:38.

support the Secretary of State in any sub micro point she has to make

:10:39.:10:42.

to the secretary to micro Treasury to support that work and to enable

:10:43.:10:47.

it to take place as soon as possible. I think people in Northern

:10:48.:10:50.

Ireland would expect that to happen as soon as possible as well and the

:10:51.:10:53.

have heard with the Secretary of have heard with the Secretary of

:10:54.:10:58.

State has just said. It has been a habit of dealing with Northern

:10:59.:11:02.

Ireland legislation in one day in this house. We believe that should

:11:03.:11:06.

only be the case when it is truly urgent. We support the emergency

:11:07.:11:12.

procedure, with respect to welfare reform, but I promised the Secretary

:11:13.:11:15.

of State that when I resume this role that we would maintain a bar

:11:16.:11:20.

pies and approach based on the approach of consent. -- bipartisan.

:11:21.:11:24.

I hope we have demonstrated that commitment. I want to make it clear

:11:25.:11:28.

to an expedited procedure, not to an expedited procedure, not

:11:29.:11:32.

emergency process. This allows members of this house and colleagues

:11:33.:11:36.

more time to consider the bill while still making it possible for us to

:11:37.:11:44.

obtain a sense of the forthcoming Northern Ireland elections. Can I

:11:45.:11:47.

say to the Secretary of State, my ascension is that any legislations

:11:48.:11:51.

of consent motion around this bill will be forthcoming in the necessary

:11:52.:11:55.

time. This will ensure that measures relating to the pledge, the

:11:56.:12:00.

undertaking, and the time available from the ministerial appointments

:12:01.:12:05.

are in place in time for the good ministerial return. Something I am

:12:06.:12:08.

told the parties themselves are keen to see happen. Can I support in a

:12:09.:12:16.

moment the point that the honourable member made about legacy issues were

:12:17.:12:22.

this to come before the House in due course. I think he made a fair and

:12:23.:12:26.

reasonable point about that given the importance and significance of

:12:27.:12:30.

that. I think anybody in Northern Ireland expect that to go through

:12:31.:12:33.

the due process and not be speeded up in any way given its significance

:12:34.:12:42.

and importance. I am grateful for the intervention. I would just like

:12:43.:12:47.

to ascertain whether her Majesty's opposition will be tailing

:12:48.:12:51.

amendments to make... That there will be a sanction for the MLA is

:12:52.:12:58.

who make the pledge, take the seats, and do not abide by the pledge.

:12:59.:13:04.

There is a code of ministerial responsibility and there are

:13:05.:13:07.

sanctions. But after this bill, there are no sanctions at all, it is

:13:08.:13:13.

an obvious gap in the draft. The honourable Lady, I am going to say

:13:14.:13:21.

something about those pledges. I think she is right in the sense of

:13:22.:13:25.

whether we table amendments or not, she is right to ask for

:13:26.:13:29.

clarification and the remarks I am making, I will quote one of the

:13:30.:13:33.

pledges, which has a qualification at the end of it to ask what that

:13:34.:13:36.

specifically means and I think the honourable Lady is absolutely right

:13:37.:13:42.

to ask questions about what these pledges actually mean and what

:13:43.:13:46.

happens in the case, given even excepting that it is Stormont

:13:47.:13:49.

business, I think it is right these questions are asked in this house.

:13:50.:13:55.

Mr Deputy Speaker, the bill would establish an independent commission

:13:56.:14:00.

as per progress being made toward the paramilitary activity in

:14:01.:14:03.

Northern Ireland. This is the key aspect of the bill, paramilitary

:14:04.:14:07.

activity is almost acceptable -- entirely uninhabitable but we have

:14:08.:14:10.

to consider in committee what progress has been made already and

:14:11.:14:13.

why this initiative will work when others have not. How progress will

:14:14.:14:18.

be judged and what happens when progress stalls. I would like to say

:14:19.:14:21.

to the Secretary of State a number of issues that will have to be

:14:22.:14:24.

exported in committee is the issue of disclosure will arise as the

:14:25.:14:28.

Secretary of State is required by the bill to issue guidance on how

:14:29.:14:33.

the national security and individuals are protected. ATX

:14:34.:14:36.

donation will be needed on this issue so that problems which prevent

:14:37.:14:40.

an agreement in the House to deal with the pass will not happen again

:14:41.:14:42.

and prevent the commission from working effectively or working at

:14:43.:14:50.

all. The bill as the honourable Lady mentioned also nullifies the pledge

:14:51.:14:54.

of office to be taken by the Northern Ireland ministers. The

:14:55.:14:56.

revised pledge would include fresh obligations to work together on

:14:57.:15:02.

shared objective of removing all forms of paramilitary groups and

:15:03.:15:07.

activity. The Bill introduces a parallel activity for members of

:15:08.:15:10.

assembly against something to be welcome to demonstrating the

:15:11.:15:15.

peaceful pursuit of change and progress. I just use one example,

:15:16.:15:20.

the revised pledge includes commitments and the committee stage

:15:21.:15:24.

I think members might want to see further explanation about the detail

:15:25.:15:27.

of these pledges. For example, one of the commitments says to ask that

:15:28.:15:34.

no authority, directional control, on political activities other than

:15:35.:15:38.

my democratic mandate alongside my own personal and party judgement. I

:15:39.:15:44.

think the committee may have a qualification in that pledge

:15:45.:15:48.

explained fully. The bill also extends the period allowed for the

:15:49.:15:52.

Northern Ireland ministers will visibly is selected from seven to 14

:15:53.:15:56.

days and this will hopefully allow more time for programme of

:15:57.:15:59.

government to be agreed. It also makes provisions to allow trips --

:16:00.:16:05.

fiscal transparency and the delivery of sustainable budget. In other

:16:06.:16:09.

words it will need to clearly set out with the UK government is

:16:10.:16:14.

providing an terms of the spending is how to be funded. I look forward

:16:15.:16:18.

to some interesting discussions on that one. Does he therefore accept

:16:19.:16:31.

that on principle, if a member in this house does not take their oath,

:16:32.:16:40.

that therefore the privileges in this house should entirely be

:16:41.:16:45.

removed from them? As the Secretary of State, of course this is house

:16:46.:16:47.

business but you would expect anybody as a member of this house to

:16:48.:16:51.

have committed themselves to the Democratic pursuit to democracy and

:16:52.:16:59.

to the pursuit of decisions through Jim -- democratic means. That is

:17:00.:17:01.

expected from everybody in this house. So he accepts our principal,

:17:02.:17:09.

would he then from the normal channels, through the government

:17:10.:17:14.

bring a motion to this house and finally resolve the anomaly that

:17:15.:17:19.

exists that allows Irish Republicans to benefit from privileges in this

:17:20.:17:24.

house without taking the oath? That is house business and I cannot

:17:25.:17:27.

commit myself to that but I believe the honourable member has heard what

:17:28.:17:31.

I have to say about that and as I say, it is something that we would

:17:32.:17:35.

expect all members of this house to commit themselves to the democratic

:17:36.:17:40.

process and to democracy. I think that is what all of us have done. I

:17:41.:17:52.

was talking about the budget and the perks -- promoting fiscal

:17:53.:17:54.

transparency for a sustainable budget, I think this'll be another

:17:55.:17:58.

area that will need to be in committee. To conclude, Northern

:17:59.:18:05.

Ireland is not out of conflict, it is coming out of conflict. Huge

:18:06.:18:09.

progress has been made but challenges remain. Paramilitary

:18:10.:18:16.

activity still hangs over too many communities and impacts on too many

:18:17.:18:21.

people. This activity, whether public or otherwise never had it

:18:22.:18:25.

place in society and has no place now. The bill represents a split

:18:26.:18:33.

towards the principal at the heart of any democracy. The rule of law is

:18:34.:18:37.

paramount in every community. Law and force by the police is subject

:18:38.:18:43.

to an independent judiciary. The success of this bill, the new

:18:44.:18:48.

pledges, and independent commission, which will be judged on how far they

:18:49.:18:55.

bring back all about. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker, I want to make a

:18:56.:18:59.

fairly brief intervention in this debate. Before I do so I wonder if

:19:00.:19:05.

you would allow me to for a few seconds refer to and pay tribute to

:19:06.:19:14.

my constituency who just a few days ago died very suddenly. --

:19:15.:19:18.

constituents. He worked with me for 14 years and took a particular

:19:19.:19:22.

interest in matters in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland,

:19:23.:19:27.

helping me quite a bit with my work on the select committee but also as

:19:28.:19:32.

co-chairman of British Irish commentary assembly. His death is a

:19:33.:19:38.

stunning shock and my heart goes out to his parents, Ryan and Maureen, so

:19:39.:19:44.

I hope it is in order for me to give the greatest tribute to him possible

:19:45.:19:48.

today. I think I'll honourable members know how much we depend on

:19:49.:19:53.

our staff and when their personal friends as well, such a loss at the

:19:54.:19:57.

age of 49 is really a terrible situation. Thank you. Can I pay

:19:58.:20:04.

tribute to the Secretary of State for the work that she has done in

:20:05.:20:11.

getting us to this point. I think I know how difficult it was back in

:20:12.:20:16.

September I think it was, when it really did look like the

:20:17.:20:19.

institutions in Northern Ireland may collapse. I know how much work she

:20:20.:20:26.

put into it and her dedication was total, she is absolutely determined

:20:27.:20:31.

that institutions would not collapse, we would in fact find some

:20:32.:20:36.

degree of agreement, and a solution which would enable us to move

:20:37.:20:39.

forward and the fact that we are here today demonstrates that she was

:20:40.:20:43.

successful in that. I want to pay tribute to her and her team and the

:20:44.:20:54.

very hard work that she put into it. Somebody in my position before it

:20:55.:21:00.

was select committee Chairman, I served as shadow Minister for five

:21:01.:21:04.

years I think it was. During some of that time, we dealt with some awful

:21:05.:21:09.

legislation in committee of stairs. Statutory instruments, making badges

:21:10.:21:14.

-- making major decisions on behalf of Parliament and people in Northern

:21:15.:21:18.

Ireland. And on many of those occasions, at the beginning of the

:21:19.:21:22.

stooges I was making, I did say how wrong and inappropriate it was to

:21:23.:21:26.

government province and that way. But we really did face the prospect

:21:27.:21:31.

of going back to that situation. That worried me and frightened me.

:21:32.:21:40.

It came about as a result of a couple of murders in Northern

:21:41.:21:44.

Ireland, tragic murders, and the linkage between those murders and

:21:45.:21:49.

people who were allegedly in the assembly or people in the assembly

:21:50.:21:53.

were allegedly sympathetic to that kind of activity. I am very pleased

:21:54.:21:57.

that this bill today makes it very clear that there is no place at all,

:21:58.:22:02.

either in this place or the assembly of Northern Ireland, for people who

:22:03.:22:06.

hold those beliefs. The famous statement we heard many years ago,

:22:07.:22:09.

the chilling statement, that would proceed with the... Those days are

:22:10.:22:18.

long gone. Anybody who tries to practice that or tries to carry out

:22:19.:22:22.

politics in that way really should be imprisoned, deprived of their

:22:23.:22:27.

liberty. There is no place in the Northern Ireland Assembly for those

:22:28.:22:29.

kinds of people. We would not in this place want to work on

:22:30.:22:33.

committees in this house or anywhere else with people who by day are in

:22:34.:22:39.

the debating chamber and that night on the streets causing problems and

:22:40.:22:43.

trouble, wreaking havoc. We would not accept that in this place and it

:22:44.:22:47.

should not be accepted in Northern Ireland so I am pleased that this

:22:48.:22:51.

bill paves the way for removing that kind of behaviour. I appreciate the

:22:52.:22:59.

point that he is making that sometimes you do have to stop and

:23:00.:23:02.

pinch yourself and recognise how far Northern Ireland has gone in the

:23:03.:23:10.

last number of years. The point he is making about Northern Ireland

:23:11.:23:13.

politicians taking decisions about the needs of the people of Northern

:23:14.:23:16.

Ireland is actually emphasised today. There has been something like

:23:17.:23:21.

26 amendments on the floor of the Northern Ireland Parliament today

:23:22.:23:23.

being voted on and consulted and considered by Northern Ireland

:23:24.:23:27.

elected representatives and that shows, instead of things being taken

:23:28.:23:32.

to committee rooms here, the decisions of people by the Northern

:23:33.:23:35.

Ireland representatives on the floor of the assembly are very prosperous

:23:36.:23:40.

and good opportunities. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman

:23:41.:23:45.

from making that point, he was able to exercise far stronger than I was

:23:46.:23:47.

able to the importance of assembly functioning. The great problem when

:23:48.:23:53.

we saw committee taking decisions just by the nature of this house,

:23:54.:23:59.

there were a few people in this committees from Northern Ireland. So

:24:00.:24:02.

the decisions were taken by people like myself and many other people

:24:03.:24:06.

from English constituencies with very few representatives from

:24:07.:24:09.

Northern Ireland so he is right to make that point. I think dealing

:24:10.:24:14.

with the paramilitary aspirant, that is the most urgent aspect but there

:24:15.:24:21.

are other issues as well which are in the bill today. One was the

:24:22.:24:26.

agreement of the budgets. I have said this before, when we have a

:24:27.:24:29.

situation where we have co-chairing rather than a straight Democratic

:24:30.:24:34.

situation like we have in this house, where we have a power-sharing

:24:35.:24:38.

situation, we all know why we have it and it brought people together.

:24:39.:24:42.

But if there is a compromise their and there has sometimes to be a

:24:43.:24:47.

compromise, whether in the way that the Northern Ireland Assembly does

:24:48.:24:53.

possess, that have to be times where executives take their stances, make

:24:54.:24:56.

their points, their objections, but at the end did the day, the House

:24:57.:25:00.

has to be in agreement because there've there is no agreement, if

:25:01.:25:04.

the views of the petition of concern and both sides have used it to

:25:05.:25:09.

excess, that is not actually going to be very helpful. If we cannot get

:25:10.:25:12.

agreement on important issues such as the budget, then we really do

:25:13.:25:18.

face the rather dark prospect of the institutions collapsing, as we

:25:19.:25:23.

almost saw and are now being brought back to the House. That is not

:25:24.:25:28.

something I want to see. When he is referring to the issues that reached

:25:29.:25:34.

consensus and agreement that was reached on, we agreed that the issue

:25:35.:25:38.

of cooperation tax was one that reached eventually consensus. When

:25:39.:25:44.

people were looking forward and are looking forward to the prospect of

:25:45.:25:47.

potentially tens of thousands of jobs being created in Northern

:25:48.:25:50.

Ireland. How does he feel about the delay that was caused in reaching

:25:51.:25:57.

the consensus, principally to Northern Ireland and UK membership

:25:58.:26:04.

that curtailed that for many years. The gentleman makes a good point, I

:26:05.:26:09.

would make two comments in response. When the select committee looked at

:26:10.:26:13.

this issue, it was the first issue would look that in my chairmanship

:26:14.:26:19.

in 2010. We found the committee was not unanimous in its support for

:26:20.:26:25.

involving the responsibilities for cooperation tax, but all the parties

:26:26.:26:29.

in general were in favour of it. So cooperation tax was one of the few

:26:30.:26:33.

issues that every part of Northern Ireland agreed with the policy on.

:26:34.:26:37.

That was a real positive and the honourable gentleman not afraid is

:26:38.:26:41.

absolutely right. We had done something about it then -- could

:26:42.:26:45.

have done something about it. The tax rates in Northern Ireland could

:26:46.:26:48.

have been changed in 2010 or long before that, if that had not been

:26:49.:26:53.

for our membership in the European Union. I am not sure how far out the

:26:54.:26:57.

Deputy Speaker will allow me to pursue that argument, but the point

:26:58.:27:02.

made by the gentleman, or even if we wanted to reduce tourism in Northern

:27:03.:27:11.

Ireland, that would not be legal under European union rolls. There

:27:12.:27:13.

are a number of ways looking at membership of EU and we spent two

:27:14.:27:18.

and a half hours on it earlier and I do not think we'll be able to spend

:27:19.:27:21.

too much longer on it now but the point he makes is absolutely right.

:27:22.:27:35.

There is always Thursday. I was just making the point that I accept the

:27:36.:27:40.

petitions of concern have been used on both sides and that there has not

:27:41.:27:43.

actually been very helpful in coming to an agreement on important issues.

:27:44.:27:48.

I know that it's often sending legislation but I do know the

:27:49.:27:52.

present -- fresh start agreement to address that point and for the

:27:53.:27:56.

request and a very strong way that is not a facility with which should

:27:57.:27:59.

be abused for the reasons we have given. Mr Deputy Speaker, I don't

:28:00.:28:04.

wish to detain the House any longer but this bill is a small bill. I

:28:05.:28:09.

think it is a very important Bill. It moves us in the right direction

:28:10.:28:15.

and again I thought mama and congratulate the secretaries of

:28:16.:28:18.

state not only for introducing this bill but also on the amount of hard

:28:19.:28:25.

work she has put in. Mr Deputy Speaker thank you I will be brief in

:28:26.:28:29.

order to allow time for other members to contribute to the debate.

:28:30.:28:36.

There were a lot of people who would rather see this whole process fail

:28:37.:28:39.

than succeed. They have their reasons and there is some form of

:28:40.:28:43.

logic that defend that position. It is however the right of the people

:28:44.:28:47.

to govern themselves to take decisions close to home and to

:28:48.:28:51.

protect their fees. In the case of Northern Ireland, that is a piece

:28:52.:28:55.

which was fashioned relatively recently and with great expense and

:28:56.:29:00.

his harried by continued undercurrent by the minorities. We

:29:01.:29:04.

should note that the political leaders on all sides of the debate

:29:05.:29:11.

of northern Ireland do have a legacy to address that may cause them some

:29:12.:29:15.

long and uncomfortable beds in the times ahead. They must however find

:29:16.:29:20.

a way to put the history of the communities in context when there

:29:21.:29:22.

look into the future of those communities. The skies of yesterday

:29:23.:29:29.

cannot be allowed to become open once again. It seems to me that that

:29:30.:29:32.

is the hardest task they face no matter what happens in this place.

:29:33.:29:37.

The land has paid a heavy price for being what it is and where it is.

:29:38.:29:41.

The communities that belong to the land have paid a heavy price for

:29:42.:29:48.

ideology and in transit fees over the years. This chamber has seen

:29:49.:29:54.

many debates, questions, and angry exchanges which at times seemed to

:29:55.:29:57.

pay little or no attention to the lies being affected and often lost.

:29:58.:30:03.

This bill is a step forward in providing it is by accepted storm.

:30:04.:30:08.

There is no magic wand to wave. But a collective movement will allow the

:30:09.:30:12.

politicians of storm and more freedom for the direction of travel.

:30:13.:30:16.

It is they that must address the legacy issues and address at

:30:17.:30:21.

BellSouth and London. The storm and should decide on the domestic

:30:22.:30:24.

programmes to serve their people. They will operate under some severe

:30:25.:30:29.

financial restrictions but they will at least have control over the tech

:30:30.:30:34.

session they will need. The devolution of corporation tax, the

:30:35.:30:39.

in all be able to decide tax rates and incentives for companies

:30:40.:30:43.

companies as well as individuals. I see no reason why the other devolved

:30:44.:30:46.

administration should not have the same power. There are gaps that have

:30:47.:30:52.

open between the points of the storm and house agreement and the fresh

:30:53.:30:56.

start agreement and this bill. I welcome the Bill and the forward

:30:57.:31:00.

momentum it takes to keep going. I congratulate the team that has

:31:01.:31:03.

brought it this far. I assume that these were not the easiest days.

:31:04.:31:10.

Gratitude should go to those in this chamber who have played a positive

:31:11.:31:15.

and forward-looking role in this process. The secretary of state of

:31:16.:31:19.

course and particularly those members here who represent

:31:20.:31:23.

constituencies in Northern Ireland. But while acknowledging the efforts

:31:24.:31:26.

of the administrators on this side of the Irish seat, we should also

:31:27.:31:33.

acknowledge the efforts of their counterparts in Dublin. Throughout

:31:34.:31:36.

the preprocessor and the development of devotion they have been vital to

:31:37.:31:42.

deliver the possibility of a peaceful and prosperous future. I

:31:43.:31:46.

think we should note that in this year of remembrance for the Irish

:31:47.:31:49.

nation, the people of Northern Ireland who suffer the effects of

:31:50.:31:53.

the troubles and continue to suffer them now, in the form of higher

:31:54.:31:57.

unemployment and a legacy of arrested community development, who

:31:58.:32:02.

I associate myself very much with the comments made by the Secretary

:32:03.:32:05.

of state about economic development, nothing will change that overnight.

:32:06.:32:10.

We are and at least looking in the right direction now. The S

:32:11.:32:19.

supports the passage of this bill. Element thank you Mr Deputy Speaker

:32:20.:32:23.

and I will begin by welcoming the introduction on the second reading

:32:24.:32:33.

to bid on this bill. We of course on these benches support the bill and

:32:34.:32:36.

the proposal to fast-track the legislation. Cannot command the

:32:37.:32:39.

Secretary of State or her speech to the House. I have to say there were

:32:40.:32:47.

a number of very wise statement that she has been making in relation to

:32:48.:32:52.

Northern Ireland and I commend her on all of those statements. Hear,

:32:53.:33:01.

hear!. Mr Deputy Speaker is a general rule we are keen to see the

:33:02.:33:06.

fullest possible parliamentary scrutiny of legislation affecting

:33:07.:33:12.

northern Ireland. In the past we have passed legislation on an

:33:13.:33:16.

emergency basis. Quite often this was unavoidable. It was nevertheless

:33:17.:33:21.

understandable. We all accept, for the reasons that the honourable

:33:22.:33:27.

gentleman has outlined, this was not the best way in which to operate. He

:33:28.:33:32.

has illustrated that this evening. It was often the result of some

:33:33.:33:36.

breakdown or failure of the political process of Northern

:33:37.:33:40.

Ireland. We're glad to say that this bill does not fall into that

:33:41.:33:43.

category. This bill has actually been brought forward as a result of

:33:44.:33:49.

political agreement, not political disagreement or crisis. It is based

:33:50.:33:52.

on the political agreement last November and there been considerable

:33:53.:33:57.

consultation and work in the Northern Ireland Assembly and with

:33:58.:34:02.

the Northern Ireland Executive so that we can reach the stage that we

:34:03.:34:04.

are today. Of course this legislation should be born and is

:34:05.:34:11.

only part of the implementation process of the storm and agreement.

:34:12.:34:17.

There is a long list of issues which were agreed and which are all being

:34:18.:34:22.

progressed and implemented either in the assembly, through this house, or

:34:23.:34:26.

directly administered by the executive and other agencies. The

:34:27.:34:30.

Secretary of State has set those out. The executive for northern

:34:31.:34:38.

Ireland has already agreed the legislation consent motion should

:34:39.:34:43.

come forward to the assembly for the clauses of all matters. I understand

:34:44.:34:46.

that that legislative consent which will come before the assembly will

:34:47.:34:52.

happen in mid-March. I am confident Mr Deputy Speaker that despite the

:34:53.:34:57.

need to fast-track the legislation, we will have the opportunity for

:34:58.:35:01.

adequate consideration. It is important that a number of the

:35:02.:35:04.

measures that are introduced by this bill are in place so that when the

:35:05.:35:12.

assembly elections are held, and the results come in, that everything is

:35:13.:35:16.

in place for the new term of the assembly and the new executive to

:35:17.:35:18.

operate under the new legislation without any hiccup or delay or any?

:35:19.:35:28.

Over it. In particularly the probation in agreement of a

:35:29.:35:31.

programme for government stand in the period to appoint ministers and

:35:32.:35:37.

new paragraph for a pledge of office and undertaking for a malaise. Those

:35:38.:35:41.

are all absolutely essential that this House does with those before

:35:42.:35:50.

the assembly in March. Thank you. I am very grateful to the right

:35:51.:35:54.

honourable gentleman. In light of the recent controversy around the

:35:55.:36:01.

scrutiny of MLA expenses, unfortunately the damage that that

:36:02.:36:07.

does public confidence, I went with the right honourable gentleman agree

:36:08.:36:14.

that this bill would be inappropriate way in which we could

:36:15.:36:20.

introduce in Northern Ireland and institutions comparable and rebuild

:36:21.:36:24.

public confidence in the procedures in Northern Ireland? If that is a

:36:25.:36:34.

whole other area of debate. We will hold much argument and discussion in

:36:35.:36:40.

this house I'm sure. We discussed some time ago and could not get

:36:41.:36:45.

agreement. The First Minister of Northern Ireland gave a speech on

:36:46.:36:50.

Friday night outlining again the importance of transparency and on

:36:51.:36:52.

this matter being dealt with and taken forward in precisely that way.

:36:53.:36:57.

We have to say whether this bill is the right time to do that, remains

:36:58.:37:03.

to be seen. That would require consultation and agreement within

:37:04.:37:06.

Northern Ireland. It could happen and I would encourage parties to do

:37:07.:37:10.

that. I think it is important that the confidence is maintained in the

:37:11.:37:18.

integrity of the assembly. We in this house knows what it is to have

:37:19.:37:20.

gone through that type of controversies, so we want to ensure

:37:21.:37:25.

that teens are progressed properly and openly with the most

:37:26.:37:32.

transparency. You get stuck when they did do reporting about the

:37:33.:37:37.

instances of the Northern Ireland reaching, overall they found a

:37:38.:37:41.

satisfactory situation. Nevertheless we need to ensure that whatever

:37:42.:37:51.

steps need to be taken to introduce transparency, I would be in support

:37:52.:37:55.

of that and our party supports that. I think others will agree to that as

:37:56.:38:01.

well. Mr Deputy Speaker this bill as the secretary of state has said

:38:02.:38:04.

seeks to implement aspects of the fresh start agreement. The fresh

:38:05.:38:10.

start agreement does represent a new beginning for politics. . I'd

:38:11.:38:15.

totally recreate what about what you said for the situation in Northern

:38:16.:38:23.

Ireland people have seen an agreement can be made and it is most

:38:24.:38:28.

difficult things can get done when there is an agreement and we need to

:38:29.:38:32.

move forward. We must continue to build on that as we move forward.

:38:33.:38:38.

That wasn't exactly possible to resolve every issue especially in

:38:39.:38:41.

relation to the past. We have a discussed that and we'll discuss

:38:42.:38:44.

that in much greater detail. Of course that is in the bill. We

:38:45.:38:48.

should be discussing what is in the bill. Our party would like to say

:38:49.:38:53.

again that we are quite happy for the details on how far we have

:38:54.:38:57.

gotten for all of that to be published. All of the people who

:38:58.:39:05.

were affected as conceived openly how much work has been done and how

:39:06.:39:09.

much progress has been made. They can also see where the gaps are and

:39:10.:39:12.

what needs to be done in conclusion. But to issues that threatened

:39:13.:39:17.

imminent destruction of dilution of that time -- dilution of that time

:39:18.:39:26.

and paramilitary violence, whose manners have been addressed agreed,

:39:27.:39:32.

and dealt with, are subject to provisions in this bill. The

:39:33.:39:37.

resolution of the welfare reform issue was an extremely important

:39:38.:39:42.

issue. The importance of resolving that cannot be underestimated. This

:39:43.:39:45.

was the single most important issue from a financial aspect to be

:39:46.:39:49.

resolved by the assembly to function. Even after the fresh start

:39:50.:39:56.

agreement, there were still members of this house and members of the

:39:57.:40:02.

assembly who were opposing the implementation of the agreement.

:40:03.:40:05.

They did not seem to recognise that without a budget that would actually

:40:06.:40:11.

measure up and be sustainable, you just cannot continue with the

:40:12.:40:18.

involution. There are politicians in northern Ireland who have grappled

:40:19.:40:23.

with difficult problems and sat down through dialogue and come to an

:40:24.:40:26.

agreement and sensible outcomes. I am very pleased at the end of the

:40:27.:40:32.

day this house was able to take forward the welfare and reforms and

:40:33.:40:38.

the Northern Ireland Assembly has been able to agree that the

:40:39.:40:45.

mitigations in some of the enhancements to the welfare system

:40:46.:40:48.

will be able to proceed as well. That is very important of course.

:40:49.:40:55.

What we have is a welfare system which is not something that we in

:40:56.:41:02.

this bench would have in -- to find but recognises the strength of the

:41:03.:41:05.

parameters in which we have to operate financially. So Mr Deputy

:41:06.:41:15.

Speaker, I am pleased that all the major targets under the storm and

:41:16.:41:24.

Andy Fresh Start Agreement are being met and deadlines are being kept.

:41:25.:41:30.

Unlike the micro one of 2014, I believe there is every reason to

:41:31.:41:33.

expect that every aspect will be implemented in full. On the welfare

:41:34.:41:40.

reform agreement I think it is important that the recommendations

:41:41.:41:46.

that came in under budget and will be if a man by the assembly. This

:41:47.:41:51.

will allow more money to be spent in other areas. The executive may pass

:41:52.:41:57.

the budget for next year ahead of time and has been dealt with by the

:41:58.:42:01.

assembly as it should. Because of the paramilitary violence issue, the

:42:02.:42:07.

panel on paramilitary issues has been set up man has begun its work.

:42:08.:42:14.

They are trying to tackle paramilitary and is him and crime

:42:15.:42:18.

that happened before Christmas. The executive has also been very seized

:42:19.:42:22.

of the importance of progressing because at the end of the day we

:42:23.:42:28.

have made very clear that when crisis occur we are not prepared to

:42:29.:42:32.

sweep these matters under the carpet. They must be faced by

:42:33.:42:36.

everyone. We want to seek Northern Ireland move forward. There must be

:42:37.:42:43.

a commitment not only in words about democracy but practice as well. We

:42:44.:42:46.

in these benches and back in the assembly have been elected as

:42:47.:42:51.

representatives of the people and will not allow these matters to be

:42:52.:42:56.

in north. We will not allow these matters to be used as a political

:42:57.:43:02.

football for point scoring. We are serious about these issues and want

:43:03.:43:06.

them addressed and addressed properly. I am glad Mr Deputy

:43:07.:43:10.

Speaker that the executive has agreed for the production of

:43:11.:43:15.

corporation tax rates that commenced on April 20 18. The reduction to

:43:16.:43:21.

12.5% is an extremely important additional -- addition to the range

:43:22.:43:27.

of attractions that the invest Northern Ireland team will be able

:43:28.:43:31.

to go out to promote across the world to possible investors. I very

:43:32.:43:41.

much welcome our gratitude to the government for their support for

:43:42.:43:45.

this matter. There are many parties and people who get up in Corporation

:43:46.:43:52.

tax. Our party never gave up on it. Some people said that if it was not

:43:53.:43:56.

over and done with it would never have happened. We did not give up on

:43:57.:44:02.

it. I want to pay tribute to the former First Minister of Northern

:44:03.:44:08.

Ireland, Peter Roberts. He is very important and recognised the value

:44:09.:44:11.

of having this in place. I want to play tribute to him for the work

:44:12.:44:16.

that he did in making this fresh start agreement happen. His

:44:17.:44:21.

commitment to ensuring that there would be stability in terms of

:44:22.:44:24.

dilution cannot be underestimated, and he deserves a amount of credit

:44:25.:44:30.

for this agreement. The corporation tax was something he felt very

:44:31.:44:33.

strongly about an hour party has always believed in. I am glad that

:44:34.:44:42.

this is now proceeding. When the new Mr of goes to New York and

:44:43.:44:45.

Washington and the West Coast in March, along with the Deputy First

:44:46.:44:49.

Minister and others, the strength of her argument to invest in northern

:44:50.:44:55.

Ireland has been greatly increased as a result of this agreement. She

:44:56.:45:00.

can point to the coming of this tax reduction is another reason why

:45:01.:45:03.

there should be investment in Northern Ireland. The legislation in

:45:04.:45:09.

relation to reducing the number of MLA and re-organizing and reducing

:45:10.:45:12.

the number of government departments is also nearing completion. As we

:45:13.:45:17.

hear tomorrow there will be further debate on that. The assembly has

:45:18.:45:21.

passed a resolution to allow unofficial opposition to be created

:45:22.:45:24.

that this work has been taken forward by the assembly and the

:45:25.:45:28.

authorities. Nominations have been softened the parties and

:45:29.:45:32.

applications often the public. This is regarded to the flags commission.

:45:33.:45:36.

We expect that to be completed by the March. All in all the progress

:45:37.:45:46.

in relation to the Fresh Start Agreement has been very very

:45:47.:45:54.

positive. This has heralded a better atmosphere and the micro one things

:45:55.:46:02.

are getting done. Mr Deputy Speaker it is an interesting comment with

:46:03.:46:06.

the media that when there is a holdup the assembly and a massive

:46:07.:46:13.

issue of confrontational and political issues and visit 99, there

:46:14.:46:19.

is a massive tension and a mass of commentaries. We don't hear the same

:46:20.:46:22.

reporting and level of discussion in the media and on the radio and on

:46:23.:46:27.

television when things are actually getting done day by day. When

:46:28.:46:36.

legislation is being passed is as if nothing is happening at all. There

:46:37.:46:41.

is no reporting at all hard fiscal. I don't hear any of it. I think it

:46:42.:46:46.

isn't even interesting commentary on how sometimes good news and positive

:46:47.:46:49.

development and progress is underreported massively. Anything

:46:50.:46:56.

negative in Northern Ireland is given much attention. I think it is

:46:57.:47:01.

worth reminding that other members have already said that we do have to

:47:02.:47:08.

sometimes pulled the record at the distance of where Northern Ireland

:47:09.:47:12.

has come from. The progress that has been made from the backward steps

:47:13.:47:17.

and the ups and downs, we have made enormous progress. The political

:47:18.:47:23.

institutions which came back after this the boundary agreement has

:47:24.:47:27.

provided an much more stable environment. I believe it that needs

:47:28.:47:38.

to be celebrated. The store that will appear in tomorrow's newspaper

:47:39.:47:41.

will be a photograph of a number of members in this chamber. Such a

:47:42.:47:55.

class story weekend week out. There is just interest when Northern

:47:56.:47:59.

Ireland is being discussed compared to when issues of the European Union

:48:00.:48:05.

are being discussed. Mr Deputy Speaker in relation to these issues

:48:06.:48:09.

I will say quality not quantity is what matters. If the press and the

:48:10.:48:22.

media. Hear, hear!. LAUGHTER. Every single member that is here is of the

:48:23.:48:27.

highest quality I have to stay. I certainly welcome those who are here

:48:28.:48:31.

for this debate, particularly members from constituencies outside

:48:32.:48:35.

of Northern Ireland and those we serve on the select committee and to

:48:36.:48:40.

have taken an interest in Northern Ireland matters. Their support and

:48:41.:48:43.

interest in northern Ireland is greatly wrecked -- welcome and we

:48:44.:48:51.

value that indeed. I have already commented on some of the issues of

:48:52.:48:57.

press and media reporting. Mr Deputy Speaker there are. We can go into

:48:58.:49:06.

detail on independent reporting commission and other matters. As the

:49:07.:49:11.

second debate, but there will be more opportunities on the floor of

:49:12.:49:17.

the House. I welcome the cooperation that there has been between the

:49:18.:49:23.

government and the opposition from the bench at how this bill should

:49:24.:49:29.

proceed. Parliamentary scrutiny should happen and as I say we

:49:30.:49:33.

understand the reasons why this needs to be fast tracked. This is

:49:34.:49:39.

not a crisis but a sense of wanting to make sure progress continues to

:49:40.:49:43.

be made and is in place before the assembly election. We wish this bill

:49:44.:49:48.

well. In fact those that have been as possible for the agreement and

:49:49.:49:52.

bring it forward and those that have worked so hard to bring the second

:49:53.:49:58.

reading of the bill to fruition. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I want

:49:59.:50:05.

to speak briefly on the bill and what I perceive to be a number of

:50:06.:50:10.

flaws. I think we need to address is at the next age. Parliament --

:50:11.:50:21.

paramilitary activity continues to be a problem for our society in

:50:22.:50:23.

Northern Ireland not just for our own constituency but there were some

:50:24.:50:30.

gunned down in the last 12 months. Such events but may not be as common

:50:31.:50:37.

as they once were. But they still exist and they still happen in our

:50:38.:50:44.

streets. These to issues are a stark reminder that paramilitary activity

:50:45.:50:49.

still exists. Merely to days after the good Friday agreement was

:50:50.:50:54.

signed. The talks that led to this bill and throughout we were very

:50:55.:50:58.

clear that a whole community approach is imperative. To rule out

:50:59.:51:05.

paramilitary activity for once and for all. Parties that seem to

:51:06.:51:12.

indulge in any type of parliamentary activity. Under any circumstances at

:51:13.:51:18.

any time should not be limited to certain groups were certain

:51:19.:51:22.

individuals or activity for certain constituencies. There should be no

:51:23.:51:29.

exclusions. It requires an unequivocal and universal

:51:30.:51:33.

condemnation and a united front by all Democratic Party. Any

:51:34.:51:46.

paramilitary behaviour or structure are an affront of democracy not just

:51:47.:51:49.

for Northern Ireland or anywhere else that may exist and should not

:51:50.:51:53.

be accepted. From our perspective the blight continued and obstructed

:51:54.:52:01.

and undermined in every opportunity for economic recovery and this is an

:52:02.:52:10.

economic imperative that we desperately need in Northern Ireland

:52:11.:52:13.

and the light of some of the needs of the last couple of weeks. The

:52:14.:52:16.

pledge proposed by the bill to be undertaken by ministers of MLA is in

:52:17.:52:21.

the right direction. The content of that pledge I would argue requires

:52:22.:52:28.

further scrutiny to protect in transition that move away from

:52:29.:52:34.

paramilitary activity. We in the STL T fully realise that ridding our

:52:35.:52:37.

society of paramilitary activity will by no means be an overnight

:52:38.:52:45.

process. The support transition has been allowed and cannot be allowed

:52:46.:52:52.

any further and to become quiet tolerance or seen as the degree of

:52:53.:52:56.

tolerance to paramilitary activity. Mr Speaker I can move along, the big

:52:57.:53:03.

absence of this bill is of course a reference to the legacies of the

:53:04.:53:08.

past and particularly issues pertaining to legacy. We have made

:53:09.:53:13.

our views clear on this. The victims and survivors and their needs must

:53:14.:53:20.

be paramount. Claims about national security preventing disclosure can

:53:21.:53:28.

not and must not... There is no degree to block every effort to

:53:29.:53:33.

block the truth or transparency. Northern Ireland society can not

:53:34.:53:39.

just move on and forget about the past. They cannot abandon the heart

:53:40.:53:43.

and needs of the victims and survivors. The wounds of the past

:53:44.:53:48.

must be healed and the victims and survivors across our society I

:53:49.:53:53.

believe have waited for to long. For many of them this bill or another

:53:54.:54:01.

bill if it's coming we would like to see it sooner rather than later, is

:54:02.:54:06.

the last chance and last real chance for any sort of meaningful truth and

:54:07.:54:10.

genuine justice. It is perfectly understandable that so many of these

:54:11.:54:17.

people still enormously let down. They feel let down by the shortfalls

:54:18.:54:21.

not just here but of other bills in the past. Dealing with the past and

:54:22.:54:30.

the legacy of the past, has been far to much of a piece exercise. We will

:54:31.:54:38.

work to amend this bill at the backstage and then the other bill

:54:39.:54:43.

that may emerge. We will amend it in the context of the needs of the

:54:44.:54:47.

victims and survivors and the needs of communities that have been

:54:48.:54:50.

blanketed and tortured by paramilitary activity. Mr Deputy

:54:51.:54:58.

Speaker there are other bits of this bill that we would welcome some

:54:59.:55:02.

reference in it to some of the issues that have been left out. We

:55:03.:55:05.

would like to see much greater progress on dealing with flag

:55:06.:55:13.

parading. These are proponents of disturbance and they are also an

:55:14.:55:17.

addition to dealing with the legacy of the past. The Secretary of State

:55:18.:55:24.

raise the issue referring to the economy. We don't talk during the

:55:25.:55:29.

talks of storm a house about the need for an overall comprehensive

:55:30.:55:33.

economic recovery strategy and prosperity strategy but somewhere it

:55:34.:55:39.

has been forgotten about. Yes corporation tax has been mentioned.

:55:40.:55:46.

We talked of corporation tax 20 years ago and have fully supported

:55:47.:55:50.

over 20 years between. But there is an issue of corporation tax.

:55:51.:55:53.

Corporation tax will not do everything. There is a desperate

:55:54.:56:01.

need for third level education, training, apprenticeships, and

:56:02.:56:03.

skills development to go along with it. This will develop a better

:56:04.:56:11.

economy. Secretary of State I would be keen if there have been some

:56:12.:56:14.

mention or reference to the economy and the prosperity process included

:56:15.:56:21.

here. I know there are issues that you want to do with urgently. But

:56:22.:56:27.

there are needs regarding the economic situation. The economic

:56:28.:56:39.

needs are dire. I just want to say that like Northern Ireland the UK

:56:40.:56:43.

Government is committed to increasing first rarity in Northern

:56:44.:56:48.

Ireland. What we do together is the economic tag and this is the main

:56:49.:56:52.

vehicle. Just because it was nice person referred to in the Fresh

:56:53.:56:55.

Start Agreement, does not mean we won't bring that about. Thank you

:56:56.:57:00.

Secretary of State for that reassurance. I would look forward to

:57:01.:57:05.

further stages of this bill and the opportunity to flesh it out and

:57:06.:57:10.

amended in the places where appropriate, to ensure that the fill

:57:11.:57:14.

is as comprehensive as possible and does all that it is expected

:57:15.:57:21.

May I start with getting hours of the to the owner memo -- honourable

:57:22.:57:27.

member for losing has a sensitive and huge thanks to him and many

:57:28.:57:33.

members before who have helped, whether it is through the committee

:57:34.:57:39.

or other ways, there are a mass of people always trying to help us get

:57:40.:57:43.

somewhere. I welcome the legislation today although I have doubts and

:57:44.:57:45.

still have doubts in various areas as we go through. We did feel at the

:57:46.:57:51.

time that it was a sticking class rather than a chance to have a

:57:52.:57:55.

rebirth of Stormont, although I welcome the changes that are going

:57:56.:58:00.

on. But we'll wait to see whether they are really get there and I am

:58:01.:58:05.

speaking touch on the changes and things we would like to see in this

:58:06.:58:11.

bill or concerns that I would like to raise when it comes to the

:58:12.:58:15.

appointing of the Independent reporting commission by the DSM. We

:58:16.:58:22.

think that should be expanded, too much of what happens in Northern

:58:23.:58:25.

Ireland is done by the two main parties, we think we should be

:58:26.:58:30.

finding a different way, whether through the Northern Ireland

:58:31.:58:32.

appointments commission, it to be something that moves away from just

:58:33.:58:39.

two main parties. I welcome in it that they guidance will be left in

:58:40.:58:44.

place the Secretary of State, I that is necessary to have some body

:58:45.:58:49.

outside of ourselves that would help move us along. Although I realise it

:58:50.:58:54.

is a poison chalice and in time what made need the wisdom of a Solomon.

:58:55.:58:58.

But we do need guidance at time. I know it falls on our shoulders most

:58:59.:59:02.

of the time, but it's something I have always been pushing since I got

:59:03.:59:06.

here, we must not have a devolved and forget. We must have Westminster

:59:07.:59:12.

working with Stormont and working together, not leaving things to

:59:13.:59:15.

Stormont when they get stuck but actually working through with it.

:59:16.:59:21.

One of the key points and I am hoping to see it in the bill, is the

:59:22.:59:25.

change from seven to 14 days to try and get a programme for Government

:59:26.:59:30.

in place. I think for that, we must remember it that the honourable

:59:31.:59:35.

member said when he was leader of the party, who actually put that

:59:36.:59:39.

idea forward to try and get a longer time to try and get the different

:59:40.:59:45.

ministers all chosen but in line with the overall programme for

:59:46.:59:49.

government and I hope that 14 days will actually get that. And if there

:59:50.:59:56.

is any doubt it would be with the Secretary of State looking to get in

:59:57.:59:59.

place something that can make that happen. It is not just ministers but

:00:00.:00:02.

a joint programme for government well into the future. I very much

:00:03.:00:09.

welcome everything to do with trying to remove Holloman and Tip --

:00:10.:00:14.

paramilitaries for Northern Ireland and they were very much a kind

:00:15.:00:22.

raising this to the top the House. But I would like the secretary of

:00:23.:00:25.

state and minister to make clear exactly what is meant by

:00:26.:00:29.

paramilitary because as this moves on and forward in legislation, I am

:00:30.:00:33.

sure that is where we are going to find mandate of our difficulties. Is

:00:34.:00:37.

someone knocking on a door when it comes to bonfires asking for funding

:00:38.:00:42.

to help pay for the bonfire, all they going to be told that they are

:00:43.:00:46.

paramilitaries? There are a whole lot of weight areas that need to be

:00:47.:00:51.

clarified. -- grey areas. Dusan putting of the union flag him to be

:00:52.:00:57.

a paramilitary because over numerous years before us, the union flag

:00:58.:01:01.

which should be a flag of all of us were not offensive to anyone has

:01:02.:01:05.

been turned for some members of the community into a sectarian flag

:01:06.:01:08.

which it should not be. Therefore is someone who is putting up that flag

:01:09.:01:12.

going to be treated as a paramilitary? We need clarity in the

:01:13.:01:15.

future and we need to talk our way through. In one story that happened

:01:16.:01:22.

in my area, boys were going to take the standards into the local church

:01:23.:01:26.

and they were refused from taking the union flag into the church due

:01:27.:01:32.

to one party blocking it and saying it was sectarian. We need to stop

:01:33.:01:40.

that from happening. Other clarity points, I am very lucky when I

:01:41.:01:44.

started off the council to go to France with a group of what would

:01:45.:01:47.

have been known as the bonfire groups. We had in those days,

:01:48.:01:53.

120,000 to clear up after the bonfires and we had 11 different

:01:54.:01:57.

groups, who all did not talk to each other, all could be called community

:01:58.:02:01.

stronger titles than that but by stronger titles than that but by

:02:02.:02:05.

going away from that, it allowed us to get them talking to each other,

:02:06.:02:10.

find forward and commonalities existing and in time produce --

:02:11.:02:16.

reduce the number of bonfires, not all of them, and the next time it

:02:17.:02:20.

only cost 40,000 to clear up. We have to be absolutely clear, our MLA

:02:21.:02:25.

is and others who are talking about this, we will see if they are being

:02:26.:02:28.

deemed as paramilitaries to be dealing with paramilitaries when we

:02:29.:02:38.

may need clarity on that. I touched on -- a member from North Downs and

:02:39.:02:44.

touched on this. We need teeth and something that will allow us to

:02:45.:02:51.

enforce whether MLA, ministers or others are actually abiding with

:02:52.:02:54.

some way to enforce that in the some way to enforce that in the

:02:55.:02:57.

future. It is something we ought do together. I agree with what has been

:02:58.:03:03.

raised before and and had been discussed whether we should try to

:03:04.:03:09.

get IDSA into this bill because it is essential that we get something

:03:10.:03:13.

much better into Northern Ireland because if you talk to some able in

:03:14.:03:17.

Northern Ireland they find that expenses were not controlled and do

:03:18.:03:21.

not think that anyone except responsibilities when they have done

:03:22.:03:25.

anything wrong. There is so much that gives that with corruption and

:03:26.:03:30.

things not being right, we have to have some form of teeth and this

:03:31.:03:33.

seems to do it extremely well. So let's try to get it in. When it

:03:34.:03:38.

comes to the opposition, it is great to hear that there is movement from

:03:39.:03:42.

the opposition in the Northern Ireland but I feel we may need to

:03:43.:03:47.

look at how one or two things in this bill that allows us to improve

:03:48.:03:52.

on the opposition and improve on whether it is the finance, how

:03:53.:03:55.

committees amend, so that we can get something that really is proper and

:03:56.:04:01.

we have to be very careful on how we deal with that and we all need to

:04:02.:04:05.

work together. When it comes to the Legacy issues, I long to see that

:04:06.:04:10.

happening. I know we had differences of the time, at least it needs to be

:04:11.:04:14.

done quickly, but not so fast that we do not get the chance to talk and

:04:15.:04:19.

have our say. But it is vital that Northern Ireland finds a way forward

:04:20.:04:22.

that moves us away from all of the legacy issues to something that is

:04:23.:04:27.

really going to thrive and we can build on it together. We had many

:04:28.:04:35.

mention of corporation taxes as we mentioned before, corporation tax is

:04:36.:04:40.

not the silver bullet. We have a mass of other things to do together,

:04:41.:04:47.

we want Corporation taxes. It is a difference on how corporation tax

:04:48.:04:51.

was actually going to work, some of them here really slowed it up but

:04:52.:04:53.

let us get something else in place, better infrastructure, changes, I

:04:54.:04:59.

whole muscle changes coming. I look forward on that build being a start

:05:00.:05:09.

to Northern Ireland improving. Could I first of all page should be up to

:05:10.:05:14.

the Secretary of State and to the Minister for the work done to bring

:05:15.:05:20.

forward this bill, having been involved in much of the negotiations

:05:21.:05:24.

in the past, I would say in all honesty, I think at times we should

:05:25.:05:32.

give merit where it is due. The Secretary of State has gone way over

:05:33.:05:35.

my estimation in terms of the very clear stance she has taken on

:05:36.:05:39.

issues, both in the public domain and privately around the negotiating

:05:40.:05:44.

table. She has done so with great clarity and I think that is

:05:45.:05:47.

something to be welcomed from a Secretary of State. I am very

:05:48.:05:51.

eagerly supported by the Minister as well. But I also pay tribute to Mark

:05:52.:06:01.

who worked for my honourable friend, I had the pleasure of meeting marked

:06:02.:06:06.

on a number of occasions including when he took an interest in Northern

:06:07.:06:11.

Ireland and I know that Lawrence and his team will feel his loss very

:06:12.:06:16.

deeply and we extend on our side of the House our sympathy to the

:06:17.:06:22.

honourable member for two Experian and to Mark Boss family. Tackling

:06:23.:06:29.

paramilitary -ism is an important element of this agreement. It is

:06:30.:06:35.

something that is long overdue. We as a party have pressed time and

:06:36.:06:40.

time again for the paramilitaries to leave the stage and at times I have

:06:41.:06:46.

listened to their spokespersons in the media bag about their

:06:47.:06:51.

contribution to the police process but deliver little by way of

:06:52.:06:57.

actually taking the steps that are necessary. They have been far too

:06:58.:07:04.

long begrudging about the necessary steps of organizations needing to be

:07:05.:07:09.

taken and they have continued to straddle the fence between democracy

:07:10.:07:14.

and the rule of law on one side and continued involvement in criminality

:07:15.:07:22.

and sadly, at times, in murder. One of the reasons we had the crisis

:07:23.:07:26.

last year in Northern Ireland, the political crisis was precisely

:07:27.:07:32.

because of that continued vomit in criminal activity and in carrying

:07:33.:07:41.

out murders as the honourable member reminded us. Those murders took

:07:42.:07:45.

place in his constituency. We need to be absolutely clear that there is

:07:46.:07:51.

no room for ambiguity, no room for grey areas, straddling the fence

:07:52.:07:56.

involvement in criminality and involvement in criminality and

:07:57.:08:03.

paramilitary -ism. We deserve better in Northern Ireland and that is why

:08:04.:08:07.

it is vital that we continue to pursue this agenda which the

:08:08.:08:10.

Stormont agreement marks a very significant step in taking it

:08:11.:08:26.

forward. I know the honourable gentleman is condemning paramilitary

:08:27.:08:38.

-ism whatever shape or form,. I would like the right honourable

:08:39.:08:42.

gentleman to put on record his thanks and many things that people

:08:43.:08:47.

that we have just completed yet another search for the remains of

:08:48.:08:54.

Lisa who disappeared 11 years ago, murdered by those with paramilitary

:08:55.:08:58.

connections. The family have never had her returned for a Christian

:08:59.:09:04.

burial and her mother died brokenhearted and I am grateful to I

:09:05.:09:10.

honourable Desmond for his stance on paramilitary. I think the honourable

:09:11.:09:18.

member for her intervention and she of course speaks of the individual

:09:19.:09:27.

and personal family suffering of the victims of paramilitary violence and

:09:28.:09:32.

let me be clear, as a party we are clear, that when we refer to

:09:33.:09:37.

paramilitarism being paramilitarism across the political divide, I have

:09:38.:09:43.

the pleasure of taking the Secretary of State and also the saddle

:09:44.:09:44.

Secretary of State to Lisbon to Secretary of State to Lisbon to

:09:45.:09:50.

visit a community project in my constituency where we have worked

:09:51.:09:54.

very hard with those who were previously involved in paramilitary

:09:55.:09:58.

activity to enable them to complete the transition to what is now purely

:09:59.:10:05.

community development work and those communities are being transformed as

:10:06.:10:12.

a result. In my constituency, a community transformed as a result of

:10:13.:10:16.

the transition of those previously involved in paramilitarism to be

:10:17.:10:20.

involved in purely community development and I commend the

:10:21.:10:26.

leadership in Lisbon for what they have done in transforming the

:10:27.:10:29.

community and making the transition that I assure the honourable Lady

:10:30.:10:33.

that is precisely the kind of effort that we need to see taking place in

:10:34.:10:38.

Northern Ireland. It is one of the tragedies of any conflict and our

:10:39.:10:44.

troubles in Northern Ireland that we have families who not only have

:10:45.:10:47.

suffered the loss of a loved one, but have not been able to mourn

:10:48.:10:52.

properly because of their loved ones remains not being returned to them.

:10:53.:10:58.

The family of Lisa is a case and point. And we hope and pray that one

:10:59.:11:04.

day they will at least have the grace of being able to bury the

:11:05.:11:11.

remains of their daughter. I would appeal to people who know where the

:11:12.:11:13.

remains are to get that information to the police and I appeal to them

:11:14.:11:19.

on the grounds of the basic Christian pretzels that even those

:11:20.:11:23.

who have been involved in such wrongdoing should see that it is the

:11:24.:11:28.

right thing and a family should be able to have some degree of closure

:11:29.:11:32.

in terms of at least having their loved one's remains returned. The

:11:33.:11:39.

bill makes provision for the establishment of the Independent

:11:40.:11:42.

reporting commission and we welcome this. The commission is to report

:11:43.:11:47.

annually on progress toward ending continued paramilitary activity and

:11:48.:11:54.

we hope they will shine a spotlight very clearly on the Republican and

:11:55.:11:58.

Loyalist paramilitary groups who are continuing to engage in criminal

:11:59.:12:03.

acts and in acts of violence. It is not only the case that that will

:12:04.:12:08.

apply to Northern Ireland, I think one of the important provisions of

:12:09.:12:12.

this is that it will also apply in Great Britain and in the Republic of

:12:13.:12:15.

Ireland and in recent times we have seen the effects of paramilitary

:12:16.:12:22.

gangster type activity in Dublin, which is unacceptable, and we must

:12:23.:12:25.

all co-operate to ensure that such activity is brought to an end. I

:12:26.:12:30.

hope the good people of the Republic of Ireland to go to the polls in a

:12:31.:12:36.

short time will think long and hard about who they are electing to their

:12:37.:12:39.

national parliament and where they stand on questions like these

:12:40.:12:44.

special criminal Court and the need to bring to an end paramilitarism

:12:45.:12:49.

and gangster activity and criminality wherever it develops and

:12:50.:12:58.

emerges. We also welcome the changes to the pledge of office for

:12:59.:13:01.

ministers for the Northern Ireland Executive. I am crucially a new

:13:02.:13:08.

undertaking which is to be given by all members elected to the assembly

:13:09.:13:17.

after me which will commit them to nonviolence, to supporting the rule

:13:18.:13:20.

of law. We think this is very important and there has not been

:13:21.:13:23.

such an undertaking required in the past, even though it is required for

:13:24.:13:27.

counsellors and noble government and I think the honourable member is

:13:28.:13:31.

absolutely right, we need to be sure that it is not just a question of

:13:32.:13:36.

undertaking but that there are sanctions in place that if members

:13:37.:13:39.

preach that undertaking that they preach that undertaking that they

:13:40.:13:43.

can be held to account. I assure the honourable lady that we will be

:13:44.:13:48.

examining the current standing orders of the Northern Ireland

:13:49.:13:50.

Assembly to see if such a sanction exists and if it does not, we will

:13:51.:13:54.

be prepared to bring forward a supporting amendment to this bill to

:13:55.:13:59.

ensure there is provision for such a sanction. The honourable member has

:14:00.:14:08.

made reference to what has gone on in this bill. It is a matter that we

:14:09.:14:14.

are not yet able to legislate for the provisions of the Stormont House

:14:15.:14:18.

agreement, dealing with legacy matters. Let me be clear. From this

:14:19.:14:24.

side of the House and this party, we support full implementation of the

:14:25.:14:28.

Stormont House agreement. There is nothing that the Democratic Union

:14:29.:14:32.

nest party is doing -- Unionist party. We are all aware that the

:14:33.:14:37.

reason we have not had implementation is because of a stand

:14:38.:14:43.

off, and impasse, which involves the question of national security. And

:14:44.:14:47.

member. When he talks about victims, member. When he talks about victims,

:14:48.:14:53.

I am not just interested in the victims of the past but also Hecking

:14:54.:14:58.

sure we do not have more victims in the future. -- making sure. We take

:14:59.:15:04.

action that compromises the security of our people, when we take actions

:15:05.:15:09.

which bring into the public domain in the manner in which the security

:15:10.:15:13.

forces operate to counterterrorism, then we take risks in Northern

:15:14.:15:21.

Ireland. We create the potential for future victims because sadly not

:15:22.:15:27.

everybody has signed up for the peace process. Not all paramilitary

:15:28.:15:31.

activities are on cease-fire. There are people out there today targeting

:15:32.:15:36.

in my own constituency in the past weeks I have two instances of prison

:15:37.:15:39.

officers having to leave their homes because of the threat from dissonant

:15:40.:15:47.

Republican organizations. The fact that there was knowledge and

:15:48.:15:52.

intelligence that thankfully has prevented those attacks from going

:15:53.:15:58.

ahead tells us that our security services are continuing to operate

:15:59.:16:03.

to prevent loss of life and further victims from being created. I would

:16:04.:16:08.

say to the honourable member from South Belfast that yes, we want the

:16:09.:16:16.

maximum disclosure that is available, but we also need to

:16:17.:16:19.

ensure that the security of the people we represent is protected.

:16:20.:16:25.

Yes, we want the victims of terrorism to have processes that are

:16:26.:16:31.

in place that enable them to have some degree of closure and enable

:16:32.:16:36.

them to have access to justice. To have access to information. But at

:16:37.:16:41.

the same time we must not compromise the ability and security forces to

:16:42.:16:47.

protect the community in Northern Ireland today and to prevent further

:16:48.:16:51.

victims in the future. On the national security issue, we really

:16:52.:16:55.

should not be giving, no Democratic Party should be giving power to

:16:56.:17:00.

those on this issue because we know what the game is. We know it is

:17:01.:17:03.

about rewriting the history of the troubles and it is about pretending

:17:04.:17:09.

against the reality that of all the deaths that have occurred in the

:17:10.:17:14.

troubles, 90% of those killings were carried out by paramilitary

:17:15.:17:19.

organizations. 90%. Yet if you follow the media coverage, reading

:17:20.:17:23.

the newspaper and look at the amount of money spent on investigations and

:17:24.:17:27.

inquests, far more proportionately far more of that resource and media

:17:28.:17:34.

coverage goat on the 10% of deaths that are attributed to the state.

:17:35.:17:40.

Many of them are debts that were a result of the security forces

:17:41.:17:44.

killing people who were engaging in acts of terrorism, but far more

:17:45.:17:51.

emphasis and resource goes on those debts than on the 90% of people.

:17:52.:17:56.

Murdered by it paramilitary organizations. I agree with him

:17:57.:18:04.

about letting the issues of the 90% versus the 10%, but even beyond

:18:05.:18:10.

that, it appears to be the case that in some instances where the

:18:11.:18:14.

provisional IRA atrocities, even those in the main set are trying to

:18:15.:18:20.

be blamed upon the security forces, the police, and the Army. So the

:18:21.:18:27.

abysmal audacity of some people has no bounds whatsoever beyond what the

:18:28.:18:31.

member has declared so far. I think the honourable member for that

:18:32.:18:36.

intervention. He is absolutely right. We see constantly this mantra

:18:37.:18:48.

that is it is not just a question of 90% versus 10% of killings, the

:18:49.:18:54.

state was somehow responsible for directing many of the paramilitary

:18:55.:18:58.

related deaths, no one with any rational thought in their head is

:18:59.:19:00.

going to fall for that absolute nonsense. Of the republican

:19:01.:19:10.

movement. When we consider that there is now an investigation from

:19:11.:19:18.

outside of Northern Ireland into the actions of an agent known as

:19:19.:19:27.

Steakknife, the emphasis is all on the killings that he allegedly may

:19:28.:19:31.

have been involved in but the question for me is, who was

:19:32.:19:36.

directing Steakknife? Who was giving the orders to him to carry out the

:19:37.:19:43.

investigations, these internal investigations of alleged Republican

:19:44.:19:47.

informers. Who was giving the orders? It was the IRA Army Council,

:19:48.:19:54.

some of who we know at the time are now very senior political figures in

:19:55.:19:58.

Northern Ireland. The very same people who point the finger at the

:19:59.:20:01.

Secretary of State and the government, but as I have said

:20:02.:20:06.

recently in a radio interview, there are far more fingers pointing back

:20:07.:20:09.

in their direction when it comes to these issues. I will give way. The

:20:10.:20:17.

audacity of the IRA in this matter I think needs to be highlighted. It is

:20:18.:20:20.

not just something that affects Northern Ireland. We also have the

:20:21.:20:26.

case now affecting murders on the mainland. The Birmingham case, there

:20:27.:20:33.

is an attitude and attempt to blame the security services in England for

:20:34.:20:36.

the Birmingham bombing, that is absolutely atrocious and I think we

:20:37.:20:43.

honourable member for Northampton is honourable member for Northampton is

:20:44.:20:50.

absolutely right. Let me be clear, we apply the same, whether it is

:20:51.:20:55.

Republican related murders or other related murders. We applied the

:20:56.:21:03.

same. The idea that the you BF would be exonerated from the north Ireland

:21:04.:21:08.

killings because of allegations of collusion is just as perverse and

:21:09.:21:16.

absurd as the idea that the IRA would somehow be exonerated from the

:21:17.:21:19.

massacres and murders that they committed in the past. The same

:21:20.:21:25.

applies on both sides. In conclusion, we want to see progress

:21:26.:21:28.

in dealing with the Legacy issues. We want to see the historical

:21:29.:21:32.

investigations unit established with full police to investigate the

:21:33.:21:37.

unsolved murders. As I talk to the innocent victims and they look on

:21:38.:21:40.

what has happened and they feel they are not being given a fair crack,

:21:41.:21:45.

they are not given the opportunity and we must try to move this on. In

:21:46.:21:51.

the interim, I did say before with the Secretary of State, we hope that

:21:52.:21:56.

when the first Minister supported the call for resources that have

:21:57.:22:00.

Artie been sort of micro set aside Artie been sort of micro set aside

:22:01.:22:06.

-- already have been set aside for the him legacy investigation unit

:22:07.:22:11.

though that that money is not coming from Northern Ireland, there is a

:22:12.:22:15.

need for the investigation to continue dealing with current crime

:22:16.:22:21.

and current terrorist threats and therefore we do not want to see the

:22:22.:22:27.

police budget led by continued drawing down of resource toward the

:22:28.:22:32.

legacy cases. They need to be investigated, absolutely, we hope

:22:33.:22:36.

the Secretary of State will listen to what people have said, with the

:22:37.:22:41.

first Minister has said, and allow some of that resource to be freed up

:22:42.:22:45.

to be transferred to the investigators to enable them to do

:22:46.:22:48.

more to help the innocent victims of terrorism. I welcome progress on

:22:49.:22:55.

this bill and piece of legislation this bill and piece of legislation

:22:56.:23:05.

aspects. They have been born for aspects. They have been born for

:23:06.:23:10.

some time. Firstly the continuing action of terrorist activities

:23:11.:23:16.

within Northern Ireland. Beyond Northern Ireland as well. But also

:23:17.:23:20.

as my honourable friend from Southampton has alluded to, there is

:23:21.:23:28.

more time after elections to lead discussions and go one, we hope

:23:29.:23:33.

those two weeks will give more time and I think it would be beneficial

:23:34.:23:37.

for Northern Ireland in the next assembly and beyond that. I look on

:23:38.:23:42.

those as very positive aspects and something to be... The issue of

:23:43.:23:51.

extension of time for negotiations was brought forward by ourselves as

:23:52.:23:57.

far as 2011, five years ago. I am almost tempted to go into some

:23:58.:24:03.

aspects that are not in the bill, but I think I will stay away from

:24:04.:24:09.

that today because you have enough with the bill. Except to say that

:24:10.:24:14.

the legacy issues would not have been dealt with at some stage, --

:24:15.:24:17.

will be dealt with at some stage, but I will say to you and to the

:24:18.:24:23.

Secretary of State that we need quality and fairness within any

:24:24.:24:28.

inquiries and investigations and that is something that has not been

:24:29.:24:30.

seen at the moment. One aspect is seen at the moment. One aspect is

:24:31.:24:37.

that an example, the legacy unit, I understand they have... That is

:24:38.:24:50.

fine. The problem is there is not one officer currently investigating

:24:51.:24:54.

that. There is a huge difference and in balance with the net. -- that.

:24:55.:25:03.

The first aspect of the bill at the moment, that is the issue around

:25:04.:25:11.

commission to look at terrorist activities or paramilitary

:25:12.:25:15.

activities. We must look at the history of some of the immediate

:25:16.:25:18.

history since the agreements have been signed, the Belfast agreement,

:25:19.:25:27.

and the you BF and other terrorist organizations that we mentioned,

:25:28.:25:31.

they have been responsible for some brutal murders. We have just heard a

:25:32.:25:40.

member mentioned, that is a terrible affliction on her family as well. To

:25:41.:25:44.

have to go through that day in and day out. I cannot imagine what that

:25:45.:25:50.

is like. But on the opposite side of Republican movements, and

:25:51.:25:53.

particularly in the IRA who have been responsible for some brutal

:25:54.:25:58.

murders. Let's not forget it has been mentioned in the past that the

:25:59.:26:03.

IRA are extractable is linked with other organizations. You just think

:26:04.:26:09.

of some the murders that have taken place. Denis Donaldson, and more

:26:10.:26:20.

recently Kevin McGuian. One thing that jump-started me is not only the

:26:21.:26:27.

brutality about it but the clinical way those murders were carried out.

:26:28.:26:33.

The planned execution. That could only be done by an organisation of

:26:34.:26:39.

the ability of the IRA. Let's not forget that indeed the chief

:26:40.:26:44.

constable said that the IRA still exists, but the Army Council still

:26:45.:26:51.

exists. That is something that we need to deal with. The issue that

:26:52.:26:57.

the IRA still exists, the Army Council still exists, and our extra

:26:58.:27:02.

googly linked to government. That is a major question that will hang over

:27:03.:27:09.

the executive and the Northern Ireland people for years to come. --

:27:10.:27:16.

inextricably. Indeed someone who may still be a member of the Army

:27:17.:27:22.

Council will have the privilege of being representatives to this

:27:23.:27:27.

commission. Happy to give way. With the member agrees may that he is

:27:28.:27:34.

outlining the case for the IRA being one and the same, would he agree

:27:35.:27:39.

with me that in all probability, in the two weeks after the assembly

:27:40.:27:45.

election, that will remain the case whenever decisions have to be made

:27:46.:27:47.

in the executive barometer? I don't disagree with the Honorable

:27:48.:27:57.

member indeed, this remained the case for some time now, it will

:27:58.:28:01.

continue to remain the case irrespective of what this commission

:28:02.:28:05.

comes up with. I think that will still remain the issue and will

:28:06.:28:09.

still remain a huge? Over some people pause possibility or right to

:28:10.:28:15.

remain a senior member of the executive. But a Deputy Speaker,

:28:16.:28:21.

moving into the second part of the bill which is a pledge of office for

:28:22.:28:26.

administers and undertaking for MLS, and delight that is welcome I

:28:27.:28:31.

suppose, I have major concerns around the effectiveness of it. The

:28:32.:28:35.

Honorable member for North Downs did indicate that she is concerned

:28:36.:28:39.

around a matter of sanctions and how those sanctions will be applied, if

:28:40.:28:44.

there is any at all. I agree with that and whether we can actually do

:28:45.:28:47.

something about that here, may be an issue for the next reading on the

:28:48.:28:52.

committee stages of this bill and the secretary of State will come

:28:53.:28:55.

back with any suggestions around that. But, if there is a bout around

:28:56.:29:01.

the pledge or undertaking, if make any difference at all, I have to say

:29:02.:29:08.

when some people want and murdered in the past, I am not so sure they

:29:09.:29:13.

were taking a pledge of office, ministerial office or taking an

:29:14.:29:16.

undertaking as assembly members who will make much difference to them, I

:29:17.:29:21.

think if they could do that in the past, I didn't think this is going

:29:22.:29:24.

to make a huge amount of difference. Moving on to the third aspect of the

:29:25.:29:29.

legislation which is the commitment on statements within the budget.

:29:30.:29:34.

Agree in the financial provisions and budget this was a major problem

:29:35.:29:39.

within the executive four months, that is why it is welcome that we

:29:40.:29:44.

are trying to progress that matter, in many departments they suffered

:29:45.:29:48.

greatly within that blockage or because of that blockage, health

:29:49.:29:56.

waiting lists rocketed, and infrastructure developments almost

:29:57.:30:01.

came to a standstill, and carrying for the elderly and those for local

:30:02.:30:04.

people were greatly diminished within our society, that is

:30:05.:30:09.

something I suppose that we all feel very sore about, particularly if you

:30:10.:30:13.

were carried within a society that she did not have that help and

:30:14.:30:18.

support because of that critical long-term within a society. Again I

:30:19.:30:21.

come back to the issue of sanctions, we have heard what the sanctions are

:30:22.:30:27.

for the pledge of office and the undertakings. What will be the

:30:28.:30:31.

sanction if the project or financial undertakings are not lived up to as

:30:32.:30:35.

well? That is not appear to be any sanction, it is almost as if this

:30:36.:30:39.

process for those that were delivered, the process and stop the

:30:40.:30:45.

benefit of getting a financial deal for everyone else. In conclusion,

:30:46.:30:49.

Madam Deputy Speaker I do welcome the progress but I will confirm if

:30:50.:30:53.

the proposals in the legislation will deliver on the aspects of

:30:54.:31:01.

terrorism, and commitment to the budgetary and financial resolutions.

:31:02.:31:08.

I will give way. Did he just say that the member should be congrats

:31:09.:31:14.

for the legal case where sanctions were imposed and someone who treated

:31:15.:31:18.

evil about him and the organisation, a very gallant organisation he was a

:31:19.:31:24.

member of, and I think that's the key is demonstrating whether there

:31:25.:31:26.

is a vehicle around and sometimes that is the best sanction. Frankly,

:31:27.:31:31.

the Honorable member I thank him for his comments, obviously it is still

:31:32.:31:37.

running on an rubbing on, yes we have got a sanction of some degree

:31:38.:31:43.

their, and hopefully the assemblies in this house here can provide

:31:44.:31:47.

sanctions. These proposals as well and within this legislation. I will

:31:48.:31:50.

await as many others here will await just to see the outcomes and see the

:31:51.:31:56.

workings of what is being proposed here. I have some concerns as you

:31:57.:32:00.

would appreciate around the workings of some on their particular

:32:01.:32:11.

sanctions,. Thank you letter that I am delighted to participate in the

:32:12.:32:14.

second reading of this bill tonight. And initially I want to offer my

:32:15.:32:21.

condolences to the Honorable member for his bereavement of his staff

:32:22.:32:27.

member and also to my Honorable friend the member in his family

:32:28.:32:29.

bereavement that happened last night. Madam Deputy Speaker, this

:32:30.:32:38.

bill in its generality deals with trying to eradicate paramilitarism.

:32:39.:32:46.

I want to emphasise again as it has already been done so by my Honorable

:32:47.:32:53.

friend, member for South Belfast, over consistent support for

:32:54.:33:00.

political and economic stability throughout Northern Ireland and

:33:01.:33:05.

throat the island of Ireland. What also and above all, our unequivocal

:33:06.:33:10.

opposition to all forms of paramilitarism. Whether it comes

:33:11.:33:15.

from Republicans paramilitaries or loyalist paramilitaries because

:33:16.:33:23.

paramilitarism and what it bad and what its bond created not only

:33:24.:33:29.

instability it created fear, and it also was like a cancer running

:33:30.:33:35.

throughout our society. And there were also other issues because of an

:33:36.:33:45.

age was already referred to by the Honorable Mayor Ashe member about

:33:46.:33:48.

the associated issues, and I can think of one in my own constituency

:33:49.:33:52.

that you referred to. The murder of the innocent men on the 18th of

:33:53.:34:00.

June, 1994. In night I will never forget, because two people that were

:34:01.:34:07.

murdered that night were directly related to my relatives, one an

:34:08.:34:10.

uncle in another a cousin. Therefore in that respect, I know the

:34:11.:34:14.

character of this people, and that they are only political act on any

:34:15.:34:22.

occasion was to register their vote. Never buy a word or a date did they

:34:23.:34:26.

undertake any form of paramilitary activity. But they died at the butt

:34:27.:34:36.

of a gun and it there've therefore I would say to the Secretary of State,

:34:37.:34:40.

that your comments on the 11th of February where in some ways unfair

:34:41.:34:53.

because at the moment it is undertaking and nearing the

:34:54.:34:55.

completion of another inquiry into what happened on that night into why

:34:56.:35:02.

it happened, where there are elements of collusion between the

:35:03.:35:08.

then and those who perpetrated those awful crimes on that night, that

:35:09.:35:13.

robbed the community that I represent, but above all that I need

:35:14.:35:21.

in and irrevocably changed our community. Not towards violence in

:35:22.:35:25.

any form, but left people in a state of fear, a community that had never

:35:26.:35:32.

known any form of violence before. So, that and I would urge the

:35:33.:35:37.

Secretary of State in that respect to be particularly careful because

:35:38.:35:43.

your words are the words of the Secretary of State on that day on

:35:44.:35:48.

the 11th of February could be seen, and could be construed as trying to

:35:49.:35:54.

office gave that inquiry by the police which is near completion.

:35:55.:35:59.

That is the second inquiry because the previous inquiry was

:36:00.:36:05.

inconclusive. In many ways it could be perceived as being deliberately

:36:06.:36:13.

inconclusive. I am happy to give way. I listen very carefully to the

:36:14.:36:25.

Honorable Lady's comments, and that future guard for her and I would

:36:26.:36:30.

just like her to put on record this evening her gratitude which stood

:36:31.:36:41.

between the community that is the whole community of Northern Ireland

:36:42.:36:45.

in absolute mayhem through more than 30 years and 302 are UC officers

:36:46.:36:54.

paid the ultimate price in terms of their lives, I am sure the Honorable

:36:55.:36:58.

Lady right to put on record her gratitude for the sacrifice and

:36:59.:37:04.

courage. Can I thank the Honorable Lady for her intervention, I am very

:37:05.:37:10.

conscious, and we were always opposed to the murder of security

:37:11.:37:15.

forces were that those security forces were in the are UC or whether

:37:16.:37:21.

they were in the EDR, because we saw what that did to them and what it

:37:22.:37:26.

did to their families, and again that type of murder, that type of

:37:27.:37:33.

paramilitarism against members of the security forces was totally

:37:34.:37:37.

unacceptable, was condemned by us at the time, and will always be

:37:38.:37:41.

condemned by us, we are very clear about that. But, if I could move on

:37:42.:37:45.

into other issues, there is a clear need in terms of economic stability

:37:46.:37:50.

and to ensure that economic stability is actually embedded into

:37:51.:37:53.

Northern Ireland. That was referred to by the Honorable friend the

:37:54.:37:58.

member forgetting he referred to issues to do with corporation tax,

:37:59.:38:06.

the loss of jobs, last week and the Honorable member for East Belfast

:38:07.:38:11.

constituency, and other job losses. The most important thing that we

:38:12.:38:15.

have to ensure, that existing economic stability in Northern

:38:16.:38:22.

Ireland is protected. And, I say again, what better way to ensure

:38:23.:38:25.

that is through continued membership of the European Union, because we

:38:26.:38:33.

have already export market in the south of Ireland and the UK has that

:38:34.:38:39.

to ready export market in the south of Ireland. And also been able to

:38:40.:38:43.

trade in terms of the wider common market. I could just ask the

:38:44.:38:48.

Secretary of State to reflect on her position in that respect. But, Madam

:38:49.:38:54.

Deputy Speaker if I could move on to elements within the bill. Clause one

:38:55.:39:00.

subsection four actually deals with the Independent reporting

:39:01.:39:06.

commissions. And Deputy First Ministers can nominate two persons,

:39:07.:39:10.

I would suggest they would need to be a legislative input for the

:39:11.:39:14.

Justice Department despite the character of that independent

:39:15.:39:19.

reporting commissions, and it could be argued that any Northern Ireland

:39:20.:39:24.

nominations should be made by the executive is a collective body are

:39:25.:39:29.

chosen for proposals being made by parties. The issues that fall to

:39:30.:39:34.

that independent reporting commissions concerns issues that

:39:35.:39:38.

brought the parties together in September of last year. Those are

:39:39.:39:46.

for directly to the murders of Jerry Davison in the first week of May

:39:47.:39:51.

last year, and also of Kevin Maguire again in August. Both people resided

:39:52.:39:58.

in the constituency of my Honorable friend, the Member for South Belfast

:39:59.:40:02.

constituency. During those negotiations, I am sure that the

:40:03.:40:06.

Secretary of State would recall this as well her colleague, the Minister

:40:07.:40:11.

of state that we in the SDLP circulated papers to the three

:40:12.:40:15.

governments and all parties on a hold enforcement approach and a

:40:16.:40:20.

whole community approach on how to address the issues of

:40:21.:40:25.

paramilitarism. Despite fresh start being designed and managed daily,

:40:26.:40:33.

there should have been all party work on that IRC membership. I would

:40:34.:40:38.

ask the question, how can the work of IRC and its mandate which

:40:39.:40:44.

includes doubling representatives, be reconciled with Sinn Fein's

:40:45.:40:53.

approach and I would like to proceed Secretary of State on precisely how

:40:54.:40:58.

much new monies are to be made available to the national crime

:40:59.:41:03.

agency and the PSN I. When those monies will be released and what

:41:04.:41:08.

will be the script of those monies between the national crime agency

:41:09.:41:16.

and the PSN I. Clause two, subsection three, subsection A deals

:41:17.:41:20.

with national security, MIT that is already being referred to by the

:41:21.:41:27.

Honorable member. So, paramilitarism and commonality is to be addressed,

:41:28.:41:31.

but unfortunately the British Government can invoke national

:41:32.:41:35.

security, and that allows for the protection of agents who do have

:41:36.:41:42.

information and that can impede the very work about the resolution of

:41:43.:41:48.

many cases. Clause six subsection one deals with institutional

:41:49.:41:52.

reforms, and yes 14 days is OK before the appointment of the

:41:53.:41:57.

ministers. But, fresh start for first to our proposal, the parties

:41:58.:42:01.

have to agree to go into executive before the programme for Government

:42:02.:42:07.

has finally agreed. I wonder how the government contemplated any

:42:08.:42:11.

amendment in this proposition? In relation to the project office, it

:42:12.:42:18.

states that one of our ministers, I could hear directly Madam Deputy

:42:19.:42:21.

Speaker from the legislation, support the rule of law

:42:22.:42:25.

unequivocally and to support all efforts to uphold it. How can this

:42:26.:42:34.

be reconciled with Sinn Fein's view on the national crime agency which

:42:35.:42:39.

is a vehicle for the role of law, yet Sinn Fein opposed the motion in

:42:40.:42:47.

the assembly in February 2015 to support in Word and date and refused

:42:48.:42:52.

to endorse it at a recent meeting of the policing Board. How does this

:42:53.:42:57.

new pledge address Sinn Fein's approach on Mr Murphy? Again, the

:42:58.:43:03.

same applies with the pledge of office for assembly members. So, but

:43:04.:43:09.

of Deputy Speaker, there are several issues there. But in the storm in

:43:10.:43:14.

how stocks, and in our submissions to those talks, we have made the

:43:15.:43:21.

point time and time again that the precious or a divided political

:43:22.:43:25.

messages on paramilitarism exacerbates the challenges facing

:43:26.:43:31.

people, trying to move community transitions and graduations away

:43:32.:43:36.

from ingrained paramilitary interests. A united political stance

:43:37.:43:42.

from all parties and a real united political stance from all parties in

:43:43.:43:50.

the assembly is imperative. If we are to enable statutory agencies and

:43:51.:43:56.

community groups to challenge ongoing paramilitary activity which

:43:57.:43:59.

should be condemned out right from what ever works or it comes from.

:44:00.:44:05.

For that reason, the additions, and I repeat again to the ministerial

:44:06.:44:09.

pledge of office, and the undertaking by assembly members are

:44:10.:44:12.

welcome, or for that clarification is required. There is one element of

:44:13.:44:19.

the pledge in particular that requires further scrutiny, they do

:44:20.:44:25.

ask the Secretary of State for some clarification today or the Minister

:44:26.:44:28.

of state who will be responding, the inclusion in the project office and

:44:29.:44:34.

undertaking I MSAs refers to ministers and and many duties to

:44:35.:44:38.

support those are determined to make the away from paramilitarism. So, if

:44:39.:44:44.

we could have some clarification on that, within a paramilitarism is not

:44:45.:44:51.

an overnight process, and scope has to be made for transition. However,

:44:52.:44:59.

this cannot be a video for illegal or other activity by paramilitary

:45:00.:45:05.

groups or manifest themselves as prospective tolerance for different

:45:06.:45:11.

classes of paramilitary behaviour. We as MPs representing Northern

:45:12.:45:15.

Ireland constituencies have seen many examples of paramilitary

:45:16.:45:21.

activity. As I said earlier Madam Deputy Speaker, in my intervention

:45:22.:45:23.

to the Secretary of State, I do regret the fact that there has been

:45:24.:45:29.

no addressing legislative terms of the legacy issues of those matters

:45:30.:45:35.

to deal with, the victims. I would urge that such legislation does come

:45:36.:45:41.

through and as my Honorable friend Andy member has said that such

:45:42.:45:48.

legislation is subjected to detailed scrutiny of this house because we

:45:49.:45:54.

owe it to all the victims and all those who have suffered so terribly

:45:55.:45:59.

as a result of such heinous violence. It was never asked for and

:46:00.:46:06.

never called for. And, in all of this that in the outer workings of

:46:07.:46:11.

all these agreements and in the eye workings of trying to achieve

:46:12.:46:16.

political and economic stability, because that is what we all strive

:46:17.:46:20.

for, and what we all want to see is for the betterment of all of her

:46:21.:46:24.

constituents and for all the citizens of Northern Ireland that we

:46:25.:46:29.

are able to ensure the social justice is provided for and that

:46:30.:46:36.

inequalities that have been in here and across the community for some

:46:37.:46:39.

years are towed to the address and that we do see the sustaining of

:46:40.:46:47.

existing jobs, the provision of new jobs, and the building up of small

:46:48.:46:52.

to medium-sized enterprises. But although jobs to foreign direct

:46:53.:46:58.

investments, I would ask for the Secretary of State and her

:46:59.:47:02.

colleague, the Minister of state work with the Northern Ireland

:47:03.:47:06.

Executive to ensure that that comes about to stop thank you Madam Deputy

:47:07.:47:14.

Speaker. Thank you, can I join with honourable colleagues and the right

:47:15.:47:19.

Honorable colleagues on this side of the House in acknowledging the

:47:20.:47:22.

presence of the Honorable member for church very, again diligent as the

:47:23.:47:29.

chair of the select committee but also in circumstances where he has

:47:30.:47:36.

suffered a close personal loss in terms of the untimely death of Mark

:47:37.:47:41.

Calloway and he has all of our sympathy and can I acknowledge the

:47:42.:47:47.

message from my Honorable member which I will pass on to my sister.

:47:48.:47:56.

Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill takes forward aspects of what has

:47:57.:48:02.

been Kolbe start agreement. I did say at the time there was an undue

:48:03.:48:09.

amount of political debris is being attached to that particular

:48:10.:48:14.

agreement because it is not as wide an agreement as for instance the

:48:15.:48:17.

picture on the library paper relating to this bill would suggest

:48:18.:48:22.

because it implies that all the parties are there and it is quite

:48:23.:48:25.

clear it is not just our party but also the alliance party have made it

:48:26.:48:29.

very clear that essentially they see most of this agreement as an

:48:30.:48:33.

agreement between Sinn Fein and the DUP and the British and Irish

:48:34.:48:36.

governments. That does not mean the rest of us do not make very

:48:37.:48:39.

significant contributions in the discussions that were taking place

:48:40.:48:44.

and my Honorable friend the Member for southbound is right to make the

:48:45.:48:50.

point that while other parties were saying a lot in front of the cameras

:48:51.:48:54.

about paramilitarism and how the issue had to be brought to a head,

:48:55.:48:59.

my party was the one party that made actual of suspended paper

:49:00.:49:04.

contributions in relation to how we need to move forward on the issue of

:49:05.:49:09.

paramilitarism with both on the one hand or whole enforcement approach

:49:10.:49:11.

because many parties and many people in the public really believe that a

:49:12.:49:15.

blind eye was being turned to different levels of criminal

:49:16.:49:20.

activity that findings were given to particular people and the government

:49:21.:49:27.

was happy to allow some crime to be continued essentially on the basis

:49:28.:49:31.

that these were personal assets that people now had that somehow so long

:49:32.:49:36.

as these assets and criminal activities were derivative of former

:49:37.:49:39.

paramilitary activities and associations that somehow they were

:49:40.:49:45.

not deemed to be political anymore than they were deemed to be at a

:49:46.:49:50.

number of times a mean the past had asked relevant authorities how some

:49:51.:49:54.

of these assets and activities were being treated we were told they were

:49:55.:49:59.

being treated as personal and not political or organisational in any

:50:00.:50:03.

way. There were many parties that he issues with bats and we heard that

:50:04.:50:06.

in previous debates here in this house from some of the Honorable

:50:07.:50:10.

members sitting behind me in relation to various aspects of

:50:11.:50:18.

smuggling and indeed of course environmental crime. Waste crime,

:50:19.:50:23.

crime involving serious hazardous waste and significant quantities of

:50:24.:50:26.

illegal and hazardous waste as well and clearly there are vestiges of

:50:27.:50:34.

former paramilitary associations of there. It is quite clear that do

:50:35.:50:42.

have those kind of hangover nixes that exists around certain

:50:43.:50:49.

paramilitary groups of people who were former associated with

:50:50.:50:52.

paramilitary groups. We were advocating the whole enforcement

:50:53.:50:54.

which of course they do have to acknowledge, both governments were

:50:55.:50:58.

absolutely adamant in those negotiations that there was no

:50:59.:51:01.

granddad being turned, that all the relevant agencies were pursuing

:51:02.:51:08.

everything they possibly could, both individually and collectively. But

:51:09.:51:10.

the government did accept that maybe dated the to be even more visibility

:51:11.:51:16.

towards that. But it may be needed to be more vocal as well as more

:51:17.:51:22.

visible to which is why we have some of the emphasis that is there in the

:51:23.:51:27.

commitment that have been made in terms of cross-border task force and

:51:28.:51:33.

those sort of efforts. But, we also advocated what he called it whole

:51:34.:51:36.

community approach because we said if we are going to achieve Andy

:51:37.:51:44.

North a whole some society free of all the amenities of paramilitary

:51:45.:51:49.

traces and all of the other hangover divisions from our past, there

:51:50.:51:51.

needed to be a whole community approach to that. In fact in the

:51:52.:51:57.

paper, that we set out and just quote a number of points that we

:51:58.:51:59.

made there, we said political parties ought to be in coherent and

:52:00.:52:06.

consistent shared standards which recognised and reported it and the

:52:07.:52:08.

various paramilitaries and just an involvement. They should reflect the

:52:09.:52:11.

shared approach which is about tooling up paramilitarism Andy Chase

:52:12.:52:14.

activities, not just thinking of particular groups or giving parties.

:52:15.:52:20.

We said party should unite in adhering to the whole community

:52:21.:52:23.

approach to achieving a wholesome community free of sectarianism,

:52:24.:52:27.

division, and vintage vestiges of ongoing paramilitarism. The whole

:52:28.:52:32.

community approach should entail more than challenging paramilitary

:52:33.:52:37.

practices or presences in our own constituencies or highlighting them

:52:38.:52:41.

on someone else's. It should mean that we all seek pernicious

:52:42.:52:44.

paramilitary activity in any corner of the North as an affront to the

:52:45.:52:48.

whole democratic society we should want as the veneration's legacy to

:52:49.:52:55.

the next. Deep cleansing residual habits of paramilitarism should be a

:52:56.:52:59.

key dimension in any programme for cohesion sharing and integration in

:53:00.:53:04.

a healthy United community. But the Deputy Speaker, we also observe that

:53:05.:53:08.

the converse is also pertinent, we cannot eradicate the course to him

:53:09.:53:16.

paramilitarism and given settings without overcoming divisions,

:53:17.:53:20.

tensions, apprehensions, and grievances which paramilitary

:53:21.:53:24.

convert to their own. In calling for that whole community approach, we

:53:25.:53:28.

had the idea of parties making new decorations and they said may be

:53:29.:53:34.

something along the lines of the Mitchell principles or the northern

:53:35.:53:37.

principles of public life. But we wanted was the commitments coming

:53:38.:53:42.

from all of the parties in pledges that would be meaningful and then of

:53:43.:53:48.

course that would be subject to adherence. That is the issue that

:53:49.:53:54.

the Honorable Lady for southbound had touched on in terms of the

:53:55.:53:57.

pledges as they have found a way into this bill. This bill does not

:53:58.:54:04.

give us the idea of the pledges coming from all of the parties and

:54:05.:54:10.

the parties uniting in guaranteeing adherence to those pledges across

:54:11.:54:13.

other preventatives instead what this bill does is take the idea of a

:54:14.:54:19.

pledge and it adds pledge of office for ministers in a number of

:54:20.:54:23.

respects and then it creates a parallel area of pledge or an

:54:24.:54:29.

mayonnaise, of course D speaker when there have been issues and

:54:30.:54:32.

controversies in Northern Ireland on whether or not parties had been

:54:33.:54:36.

consorting with paramilitaries are engaging, the allegation had not

:54:37.:54:39.

just been about MLA or ministers, their easy questions, they are not

:54:40.:54:48.

about the standards as above they make in terms of their commitment to

:54:49.:54:54.

nonviolence. The question also raises were here in this house

:54:55.:54:57.

debating this legislation, the did not apply to the MPs? Are MP3 of the

:54:58.:55:02.

standards. They apply to MLAs and they apply to ministers to a degree,

:55:03.:55:08.

but not I think we need to find a more articulate way than just the

:55:09.:55:14.

pledges as they appear here. And of course the Honorable member for

:55:15.:55:18.

northbound is right in pointing out that there is no way of enforcing a

:55:19.:55:26.

relation to any dispute or controversy. That applies not just

:55:27.:55:30.

to the question of the undertaking members of the assembly, it applies

:55:31.:55:34.

very directly to the pledge of ministers because there is no means

:55:35.:55:40.

of arbitrary unmanaged breaches of the ministerial code. So, the

:55:41.:55:45.

executive does not have a means of doing that, the First Minister have

:55:46.:55:50.

still not found a way are brought forward a clearly of investigating

:55:51.:55:56.

and making a judgement where if they had been breaches of the

:55:57.:56:00.

ministerial, people can take each other to court alleging breaches of

:56:01.:56:03.

the ministerial code. There is not what they should be a sensible,

:56:04.:56:09.

clear, credible mechanism at the level of the executive itself, and

:56:10.:56:13.

similarly such would be needed from the assembly whether to go to the

:56:14.:56:16.

committee of standard and privileges are it is not enough to just be

:56:17.:56:23.

standing orders to decide this to my mind is a higher order political

:56:24.:56:25.

decision than something that it should be decided by a procedures

:56:26.:56:30.

committee in the assembly looking at standing orders. D speaker, that

:56:31.:56:34.

would be mistake that was made years ago in the original 1998 act, the

:56:35.:56:40.

provisions around the petition of concern, the provisions in paragraph

:56:41.:56:47.

11 to 13 were very particular about how limited the use of petitions

:56:48.:56:52.

were to be. They were to be selectively for instances where

:56:53.:56:54.

people were alleging that there was a breach, that there was an issue of

:56:55.:56:58.

human rights or equality, and a mechanism was set up on the basis of

:56:59.:57:04.

concern to test that issue. And then, things would proceed him

:57:05.:57:07.

unfortunately the legislation rather than providing for what was in the

:57:08.:57:12.

Good Friday agreement, the legislation simply said that

:57:13.:57:17.

standing orders would provide for the sorts of devices that were

:57:18.:57:21.

mentioned in those paragraphs and it was never done right which is why we

:57:22.:57:24.

had the very point that the Member for Cech Barry was complaining about

:57:25.:57:30.

what we have a wide open drive-by vehicle state of petition of concern

:57:31.:57:34.

that was used on a tit-for-tat basis and on a frivolous basis. I am

:57:35.:57:40.

grateful my beaker for it giving way, I think he made a strong point

:57:41.:57:43.

about the principles that should be applied in public life, it is not a

:57:44.:57:48.

certain irony that they have just alongside Sinn Fein this evening

:57:49.:57:53.

find a position of concern to retain and enshrine religious

:57:54.:57:55.

discrimination in the selection of teachers in the province? They have

:57:56.:58:01.

signed a petition of concern against a proposal which is coming forward

:58:02.:58:09.

currently yes, just before, it is a matter of trying to protect laws

:58:10.:58:12.

that have already existed and not change them, not change them

:58:13.:58:17.

rationally before an election. Which is also something that the DUP have

:58:18.:58:21.

stated in relation to other aspects as well. In terms of defending the

:58:22.:58:29.

existing equality, the existing equality provisions that are there,

:58:30.:58:36.

clearly it does. What should happen with a protection of concern should

:58:37.:58:41.

be what happens or what was intended under the Good Friday agreement,

:58:42.:58:44.

rather than that being the end of that matter. That matter should then

:58:45.:58:46.

be the subject of an investigation but especially am appointed

:58:47.:58:53.

committee, what issues are involved and that that issue and that the

:58:54.:58:56.

matter proceed. That is the way it should have been as per the

:58:57.:59:02.

agreement, that has been our position as to help petitions of

:59:03.:59:05.

concern should be properly dealt with. And not abused in that sort of

:59:06.:59:13.

way. Let us remember also, when they looked at those pledge of office,

:59:14.:59:16.

the pledge of office, the budget office by ministers and members of

:59:17.:59:21.

the assembly and well the fact that it is confined purely to ministers

:59:22.:59:26.

and to members of the assembly and not the other party politicians. We

:59:27.:59:29.

also need to recognise that the commitments essentially are to work

:59:30.:59:33.

for the ministers to work collectively with the other members

:59:34.:59:38.

and to achieve a society free of paramilitarism. I would hope that

:59:39.:59:41.

the commitments would work and extend to much more than just their

:59:42.:59:44.

ministerial colleagues, and the commitment of a members should

:59:45.:59:48.

extend to more than just working with their SMB colleagues. There is

:59:49.:59:53.

also of course the question of what to some of the terms mean and the

:59:54.:59:58.

Honorable member for getting was right, I think to point out the

:59:59.:00:07.

final stop pledge in both the pledge of office by ministers and SME

:00:08.:00:13.

members which pledges to accept no authority direction or control on

:00:14.:00:18.

political activities other than my democratic mandate alongside my own

:00:19.:00:21.

personal and party judgement. Well, if ministers are saying that in

:00:22.:00:24.

their pledge of office, in the same pledge of office ministers are also

:00:25.:00:31.

pledging to be bound by decisions of the executive and he is saying

:00:32.:00:33.

something that appears to contradict that because it says to accept no

:00:34.:00:38.

direction or control. Other than democratic mandate alongside these,

:00:39.:00:43.

there is a tension there, also of course there would be the issue of

:00:44.:00:54.

if we do fill the gap that the Honorable member for northbound

:00:55.:00:56.

mentioned, if we do fill that gap in terms of creating some clear sense

:00:57.:01:03.

of standards and sanctions around this, then clearly people are going

:01:04.:01:08.

to have to accept some of their political conduct and that there

:01:09.:01:13.

will be listening to others in regards of the standards of

:01:14.:01:16.

behaviours and engagement should be. Therefore again, I think there is a

:01:17.:01:21.

problem which the Honorable member for deadening has been a right to

:01:22.:01:26.

identify. I also want to take up the point that my Honorable friend for

:01:27.:01:34.

southbound had mentioned in respect of the second of the sub pages which

:01:35.:01:38.

is to support those who are determined to make the transition

:01:39.:01:41.

away from paramilitarism, that might seem to be fair enough as a general

:01:42.:01:47.

statement of support, but what does it mean in practice. And also, are

:01:48.:01:53.

there potentially tensions between that and other parts of the pledge

:01:54.:01:58.

to challenge paramilitary attempt to control communities? And the

:01:59.:02:02.

commitment to challenge all paramilitarism activity, because as

:02:03.:02:09.

the right honourable member said in his remarks earlier, he questioned

:02:10.:02:16.

whether or not some of the paramilitary or former personalities

:02:17.:02:21.

who have talked a lot in their contribution to the peace process

:02:22.:02:29.

that they have been in relation to certain standards and certain

:02:30.:02:31.

practices and that they have turned a blind eyes to certain things. The

:02:32.:02:38.

questions are raised as to whether or not when we are criticising or

:02:39.:02:41.

challenging such people, are they then going to be accused of not

:02:42.:02:45.

supporting those who are determined to make the transition away from

:02:46.:02:50.

paramilitarism? Many people use as a justification for their demands for

:02:51.:02:53.

funding for particular schemes, they use as justification for jobs and

:02:54.:03:00.

the rest, this is all about weaning people away from paramilitarism.

:03:01.:03:03.

Other people in the community sometimes challenges because they

:03:04.:03:08.

challenge particular post that became available. And other people

:03:09.:03:13.

were I do think there are issues that we should look at there. And

:03:14.:03:18.

remember we had the very glaring example of the Honorable member for

:03:19.:03:25.

Southdown herself when she was a minister and made a decision to

:03:26.:03:31.

cease to continue funding from her department to the Carthage

:03:32.:03:35.

estimation initiative because the Chief Constable and other senior

:03:36.:03:37.

police officers at the camera making it very glaring that they were being

:03:38.:03:41.

funded and supported by the confidence predation initiative were

:03:42.:03:47.

up to their necks in a series of crimes at that time, there were

:03:48.:03:50.

profile criminal activities taking place at that time, they keep

:03:51.:03:53.

Godzilla made it clear, my Honorable friend brought that matter to the

:03:54.:03:59.

executive, he said that is going to be decided in your department,

:04:00.:04:03.

whenever she did decide it people change their idea and of course

:04:04.:04:07.

other parties then said no, that transformation is supporting people

:04:08.:04:12.

who are trying to make the transition away from paramilitarism.

:04:13.:04:14.

As far as other people were concerned this was money that was

:04:15.:04:18.

going to support people who are up to their neck in crime at that time.

:04:19.:04:24.

So, what is it to be? There are potential tensions even with how any

:04:25.:04:30.

of them could determine any of these clauses here, we could take them in

:04:31.:04:32.

very different directions. Again, work is needed on these to refine

:04:33.:04:39.

them somewhat better as well as making sure someone else can be lots

:04:40.:04:45.

of identity and parties on these issues. The one thing we do not want

:04:46.:04:48.

is parties ended up arguing with each other over paramilitarism are

:04:49.:04:55.

we supposing aspects either now or historically. The more united and

:04:56.:04:59.

coherent parties can be seen to be the better. Remember, we want to

:05:00.:05:05.

make sure that the surprise at all levels, if there are controversies

:05:06.:05:12.

about party politicians turning up at particular events and protests

:05:13.:05:17.

and paramilitaries are there as well do need to be able to do with those

:05:18.:05:20.

issues and make sure that this sort of pledge does govern things that

:05:21.:05:27.

when it comes to controversies like as has been mentioned in this

:05:28.:05:31.

chamber before, for instance it should be clear that we have a

:05:32.:05:37.

pledge that relates to paramilitaries practices either

:05:38.:05:41.

historically or currently that is absolutely consistent and all on the

:05:42.:05:44.

one yardstick. That becomes protection for all the individual

:05:45.:05:47.

politicians would be put under pressure at community level to get

:05:48.:05:51.

involved and then their presence. So the pledge is articulate and robust

:05:52.:05:59.

and could give us a lot there. But under the DD speaker, there are

:06:00.:06:04.

other issues in this ballot before, not in the bill, of course the

:06:05.:06:12.

independent reporting commissions other Honorable members have such an

:06:13.:06:14.

effect that it is the First Minister who will appoint part of the first

:06:15.:06:21.

agreement, whose record was to the executive, it is clear here that I

:06:22.:06:28.

share what others have there, that needs to be the subject of wider

:06:29.:06:31.

consideration and consultation as well. I think there are issues about

:06:32.:06:35.

the secretary of state powers in respect of that commission. The fact

:06:36.:06:41.

that the Secretary of State will be in charge of defining the

:06:42.:06:45.

interpretations around a lot of these things and possibly changing

:06:46.:06:49.

the interpretations around some of these things. That needs more work

:06:50.:07:00.

and consideration. One of the DD speaker, also in Clause issue of

:07:01.:07:07.

draft budget, there are a couple of points I want to make a ball what is

:07:08.:07:12.

in there. First of all, the government is saying that this

:07:13.:07:16.

clauses here because they want to ensure greater transparency and

:07:17.:07:22.

sustainability are on the budget. I am all for transparency around

:07:23.:07:28.

budgets and even Marcel whenever I have the job of Minister of finance

:07:29.:07:34.

and personnel. Indeed the SDLP in various talks have advocated going

:07:35.:07:37.

much further in relation to budget transparency. As well as having

:07:38.:07:43.

designed the whole procedure of their agents parent process of draft

:07:44.:07:46.

budgets to be fully considered for the assembly and open to public

:07:47.:07:51.

consultation and then subject to the revise budget procedure, we have

:07:52.:07:58.

also advocated in various talks but did not get agreement from other

:07:59.:08:01.

parties and this went right back to the Castle, we said that after the

:08:02.:08:07.

revise budget was approved by the assembly, we said each departmental

:08:08.:08:11.

minister should then within a period of a number of weeks make their own

:08:12.:08:14.

statement of their own spending plan and be fully answerable to the

:08:15.:08:18.

assembly for how they would add to the conspiracy. It was not to the

:08:19.:08:22.

taste of many of the parties who were talking about it, he was

:08:23.:08:27.

telling me we don't want that much just guarantee, that would be too

:08:28.:08:32.

much. I think there should be transparency there within the

:08:33.:08:35.

assembly and following through on budgets. In terms of this particular

:08:36.:08:41.

instrument, that is mentioned here, there would be a statement that

:08:42.:08:44.

would be made before the assembly in terms of the amount of UK funding. I

:08:45.:08:50.

would ask the Secretary of State if she would consider accepting an

:08:51.:08:54.

amendment that would make that further and would say that that

:08:55.:08:58.

statement should actually specify exactly how the Northern Ireland

:08:59.:09:03.

allocations was calculated so that people in the assembly and members

:09:04.:09:06.

here would be able to correlate exactly how that spending would

:09:07.:09:11.

amount for Northern Ireland and has been determined here and on the

:09:12.:09:17.

basis possibly on legislation and legislative requirements, Madam

:09:18.:09:22.

Deputy Speaker, it was one of the key arguments that came from the

:09:23.:09:26.

Scottish National Party and their selves in relation to the English

:09:27.:09:29.

was for English laws, there were legislations that can go through

:09:30.:09:34.

here, that's will then inform spending plans. And though spending

:09:35.:09:41.

plans that are informed for England or England and Wales will then in

:09:42.:09:47.

turn be factored in to the formula. It is a just guarantee because the

:09:48.:09:50.

government tried to tell us at the time, no the legislation has that

:09:51.:09:55.

kind of spending consequences, this is the government that usually when

:09:56.:09:59.

they were rejecting amendments, it would be because of their budgetary

:10:00.:10:06.

consequences. They try to pretend with English words for English laws

:10:07.:10:09.

that there were no consequences with the legislation that would be

:10:10.:10:14.

passed. They might be right, we might be writes, the way of proving

:10:15.:10:20.

who is or is not right, the way up establishing the facts is to take

:10:21.:10:23.

these instruments of transparency a bit further and it should not be

:10:24.:10:26.

hard to colour in that statement a bit more, rather than just being the

:10:27.:10:29.

brief outline statement that it is, it should be able to be well

:10:30.:10:32.

coloured in whether it is in respect of the draft budgets or the

:10:33.:10:37.

subsequent revise statement that the revise budget has as well. If people

:10:38.:10:41.

want just guarantee that would be a very good addition to just

:10:42.:10:46.

guarantee. We have to question whether or not some of the intention

:10:47.:10:52.

with the statement is of course to use in effect as a budget cap so the

:10:53.:10:59.

government is saying they wanted to be a budget guarantee and

:11:00.:11:01.

sustainability, but of course we know that whenever the Corporation

:11:02.:11:05.

tax bill is passed the financial Secretary to the Treasury said that

:11:06.:11:11.

the switch on would only be activated whenever the Treasury was

:11:12.:11:16.

that despite around a balanced and sustainable budget and let some of

:11:17.:11:19.

us asked at the bill committee would be Treasury use that to make a

:11:20.:11:23.

judgement on some of the spending plans of the executive because after

:11:24.:11:29.

all the Treasury was using the assembly failure to pass the welfare

:11:30.:11:37.

reform legislation as a case for making a judgement that there was

:11:38.:11:40.

not a balanced and sustainable judgement that this be used for

:11:41.:11:42.

other things in the future for instant information to student

:11:43.:11:45.

finance and in relation to water charges and in relation to

:11:46.:11:50.

prescription charges or anything else and the financial Secretary

:11:51.:11:55.

said well, you judge a budget on the sum of its parts. So he did that,

:11:56.:12:00.

and it could be used precisely to involve themselves in some of those

:12:01.:12:03.

other things. One other point I would make about the draft budgets

:12:04.:12:08.

in Clause nine and is one of the reasons I welcome this is it severs

:12:09.:12:16.

a point Madam Deputy Speaker that arose after a budget in the assembly

:12:17.:12:24.

in 2008, the Minister for finance and personnel brought a budget to

:12:25.:12:31.

the assembly in 2008 we try to amend it and am in the programme for

:12:32.:12:35.

government as well as as voting against aspect of it, he announced

:12:36.:12:41.

then a few months later that because that budget that he bought through

:12:42.:12:48.

in 2008 had also contained figures for 2009, and 2010, they did not

:12:49.:12:52.

need to be draft budgets tabled before the assembly in the

:12:53.:12:55.

subsequent years, the procedures that were laid down which very

:12:56.:13:01.

clearly were predicated on a financial, annual exercise he said

:13:02.:13:09.

that he had legal advice that said that requirements for that exercise

:13:10.:13:15.

before each financial year was discharged by the fact that he had

:13:16.:13:19.

covered figures for all three years in the 2008 budget. We challenge

:13:20.:13:22.

that at the time, we took it to the Speaker of the assembly at the time,

:13:23.:13:27.

unfortunately he said he was up to us to take a legal challenge on it.

:13:28.:13:34.

That advised that Peter Robinson was giving at the time as minister was

:13:35.:13:40.

followed then by his successor as minister of finance and personnel,

:13:41.:13:44.

the writable member for North Belfast thing that the job budget

:13:45.:13:46.

exercise was needed, one of the things that is very clear is that it

:13:47.:13:52.

is an annual exercise, there is no ambiguity or doubt when you see the

:13:53.:13:55.

way this is framed that it is an annual exercise, the there have to

:13:56.:13:59.

be a draft budget tabled and fully debated every year and there have to

:14:00.:14:03.

be this additional statement ahead of that. We are glad that at least

:14:04.:14:08.

it does that, maybe it should restore a bit of transparency, to

:14:09.:14:14.

the assembly which does need to be amplified, the assembly should be

:14:15.:14:18.

doing much more by way of scrutiny from budgets and spending. Members

:14:19.:14:33.

have raised issues that weren't covered in the secretary of State's

:14:34.:14:38.

address in her opening remarks in her respective legacy issues. I

:14:39.:14:45.

regret the fact that we ended up with, rather than in all party, all

:14:46.:14:53.

partied together agreement, we have ended of with welfare reform going

:14:54.:15:01.

forward as agreed by the three amigos of Sheng fang. The Tories and

:15:02.:15:09.

the DEP, and the austerity a landscape was welfare reform on

:15:10.:15:17.

those terms. Now we have this legislation being brought forward,

:15:18.:15:27.

and the legacy legislation. When that comes it is important it is not

:15:28.:15:31.

rushed, and that we give full consideration again to some of the

:15:32.:15:37.

issues. While I recognise the Secretary of State saying that she

:15:38.:15:43.

thinks the measure of agreement that was apparent around the table I

:15:44.:15:49.

store my house, the highest degree of agreement that there has been, I

:15:50.:15:54.

would make the point that there was an offer of a much better

:15:55.:15:58.

perspectives in terms of dealing with the past. There was a another

:15:59.:16:10.

perspective as well. They were watered down in the store my house

:16:11.:16:14.

agreement, and being watered down further. In a number of respects,

:16:15.:16:24.

and I would ask as well as victims groups who have their own concerns,

:16:25.:16:29.

upsets, and apprehensions to consider all of the issues, I would

:16:30.:16:32.

ask all parties to consider all of the issues as well. Not least in

:16:33.:16:41.

respect of the potential to deal with what have now been thematic.

:16:42.:16:47.

What is hugely important is that the historic investigations unit has set

:16:48.:16:51.

up to undertaking the work that was formally done by the police odds

:16:52.:17:01.

with them. -- ombudsman. We should realise it will work on the basis of

:17:02.:17:07.

providing support to families. Many of these cases are linked together.

:17:08.:17:16.

There are wider patterns, and wider issues at stake. Not all in relation

:17:17.:17:22.

to killings. We think many of those need to be given an airing. We think

:17:23.:17:26.

that that would help to answer some of the questions that have been

:17:27.:17:32.

raised by the honourable member. He said he thinks there is an

:17:33.:17:37.

unbalanced approach to the past, that those who want the past

:17:38.:17:40.

investigated are concentrating on what he stated, and not what

:17:41.:17:46.

paramilitary actors did. The whole question of the medics and patterns

:17:47.:17:49.

in those investigations could precisely lead to more balance. That

:17:50.:17:59.

is why we put such emphasis on that. I recall the point in reply to some

:18:00.:18:15.

of the points that deal with the means and the motives were pursuing

:18:16.:18:19.

their aspects of the past that interested in them, and other people

:18:20.:18:22.

were being left aside. He was making the point that he thought the medics

:18:23.:18:27.

was a way of evening that, and making sure that other issues and

:18:28.:18:34.

concerns were looked at. I am grateful to the honourable member.

:18:35.:18:46.

Before he concludes... Just before he concludes his remarks, I wanted

:18:47.:18:54.

to take this opportunity to express, despite the noises, how sorry we are

:18:55.:19:00.

that there has been a family burden and in the honourable member's

:19:01.:19:06.

extended family. We would be grateful if you would offer to his

:19:07.:19:12.

sister our sympathy and support at a time when her partner was tragically

:19:13.:19:18.

killed in a traffic accident last night. We are sorry indeed.

:19:19.:19:31.

Can I thank the Member for her kind condolences, which I will certainly

:19:32.:19:42.

pass on. I accept this burden that she has shared, on behalf of collies

:19:43.:19:50.

as well. Whenever we experience death, and a shock like that,

:19:51.:19:54.

especially when I didn't know what had happened when I spotted the tape

:19:55.:20:00.

across the road and the place, it looked like a security operation

:20:01.:20:04.

that would have been so familiar to so many of us down the years. It was

:20:05.:20:10.

a throwback image, before I knew anything else. I had memories of

:20:11.:20:17.

another occasion, which also brings to mind exactly the position we are

:20:18.:20:21.

all talking about, coming here from different party stances we are

:20:22.:20:26.

talking about victims and their positions, and their concerns.

:20:27.:20:32.

Victims, and survivors and their needs. We do need to show full

:20:33.:20:36.

consideration, because if we are going to convince them that the

:20:37.:20:39.

legislation, when it does come forward in relation to legacy

:20:40.:20:43.

issues, is going to be fit for their needs, then we need to listen and

:20:44.:20:51.

think a little bit more. I would hope that the consensus that the

:20:52.:20:55.

secretary of State is saying she wants to build isn't going to be

:20:56.:20:59.

just trying to square things off between herself and one or two other

:21:00.:21:02.

parties, but that it is done much more widely. Clearly, we will be

:21:03.:21:10.

bringing forward, as my honourable friend has said, we will be bringing

:21:11.:21:16.

forward amendments on some of these issues to try to prove and improve

:21:17.:21:19.

the meaning of this legislation. Obviously we are not opposed to

:21:20.:21:25.

this, because clearly we will need changes to be in place such as the

:21:26.:21:29.

change in relation to the timeline for the appointment of ministers,

:21:30.:21:32.

and the question of allowing a programme for government to actually

:21:33.:21:40.

be aired and shared before ministers are appointed. Clearly, if that will

:21:41.:21:44.

happen in time for the many of the next assembly, this legislation will

:21:45.:21:50.

have to go through. We are certainly, in terms of the timing,

:21:51.:21:56.

we wanted to improve it, and make some of the gaps and wrinkles in it.

:21:57.:22:01.

We think there could have been other things done with this legislation.

:22:02.:22:05.

Why should the appointment of first deputy and the Minister remained the

:22:06.:22:09.

singular appointment of two parties? Why not revert to the original Good

:22:10.:22:15.

Friday agreement of liking them? Sheng fang and the DEP go to lobby

:22:16.:22:21.

on their own. They couldn't originally in 2007, when devolution

:22:22.:22:25.

was restored with his wife the whole system had to be changed. Now they

:22:26.:22:34.

are happy to be in a power packed, there is no reason why they

:22:35.:22:41.

shouldn't. That should be an assembly mandate and have the deputy

:22:42.:22:45.

and first Minister mandated that way. In relation to this bill, we

:22:46.:22:54.

may concentrate on issues in the bill, and also on others that aren't

:22:55.:23:01.

in the bill. Thank you very much. Second reading debates are often

:23:02.:23:06.

described as timely, well informed, and occasionally that is true.

:23:07.:23:12.

Tonight, I think we have heard an excellent second reading debate with

:23:13.:23:15.

first-class contributions from all corners of the chamber. Can I

:23:16.:23:21.

associate myself and my colleague with particular aspirations of

:23:22.:23:26.

sympathy expressed to the honourable member of the death of Mark

:23:27.:23:33.

Calloway. The honourable number has borne this with courage, and has the

:23:34.:23:38.

sympathy of the house. As does the member from foil for his family

:23:39.:23:43.

burden and which I hope we can all there with him. This has been one of

:23:44.:23:52.

Constantine throughout the night's debate. That is, for once on these

:23:53.:23:57.

occasions, I am delighted, I am pleased to say, a theme of optimism.

:23:58.:24:01.

This is a serious and sober debate, but at every stage, there was a

:24:02.:24:06.

chink of light. That chance of hope, that good news for the future, and

:24:07.:24:11.

that commitment to a better shared future. We heard that from every

:24:12.:24:16.

party speaking tonight. That is one of the most important things we have

:24:17.:24:23.

heard tonight. When the Member for Belfast North refers to, rather

:24:24.:24:30.

flatteringly, we are represented more in quality than quantity, may I

:24:31.:24:34.

say there are more people beyond this chamber looking at our

:24:35.:24:36.

deliberations who are watching us, and in many cases they will be

:24:37.:24:42.

looking in on us with admiration and gratitude. We are moving on in

:24:43.:24:47.

northern Ireland to a better, shared future. Tonight's bill and the

:24:48.:24:49.

second reading may not be the most important piece of legislation ever

:24:50.:24:55.

seen on this floor, but it is an essential, crucial building block in

:24:56.:25:00.

this war, in the architecture, the structure of a peaceful Northern

:25:01.:25:03.

Ireland that we all aspire for. I have been greatly at impressed by

:25:04.:25:10.

the determination and quality of the comments tonight. The honourable

:25:11.:25:14.

Lady, above and beyond the call of duty, presented herself despite

:25:15.:25:18.

suffering from something approaching laryngitis. May I suggest there is a

:25:19.:25:31.

marvellous medicine in Ireland and Scotland, that is available for her

:25:32.:25:36.

on request. Whether she was able to avail herself of a small nip, I

:25:37.:25:41.

cannot say, but as a prophylactic against such drug conditions, it is

:25:42.:25:46.

admirable and Wolk recommended. It is also a very powerful curative.

:25:47.:25:53.

Referring again to the honourable gentleman for Belfast North, when he

:25:54.:25:56.

said that this is only part of the information of the Stormont house,

:25:57.:26:02.

and try the course of his speech and others, we were privileged and

:26:03.:26:06.

almost blessed to hear some extraordinarily incisive

:26:07.:26:09.

interventions by the honourable Betty from North Down. Her

:26:10.:26:14.

suggestion of extending the inset empire to Northern Ireland is

:26:15.:26:18.

something that would be a tad controversial. We may need to

:26:19.:26:22.

discuss that at some later point. I also thought the gentleman from

:26:23.:26:25.

Belfast North was right, and I would like to associate myself and my

:26:26.:26:30.

colleague with his comment about Peter Robinson. We don't give people

:26:31.:26:33.

enough credit on the floor of this house for the work we do. Very often

:26:34.:26:38.

people achieve great things, and then they perhaps move off of the

:26:39.:26:41.

stage may be to return, who knows? And move off of the stage and

:26:42.:26:45.

sometimes we neglected to thank and pay credit to them. The honourable

:26:46.:26:51.

gentleman for North Belfast has done the right thing. I think everyone

:26:52.:26:55.

would wish to associate himself with his comments. We also heard from the

:26:56.:27:03.

honourable gentleman of how things have moved on from the days of the

:27:04.:27:08.

bonfires. Extraordinarily, sobering as if it is needed, a comment from

:27:09.:27:15.

the right honourable gentleman. Sometimes, when we debate Northern

:27:16.:27:19.

Ireland business on the floor of the house, we actually forget the

:27:20.:27:23.

full-scale and extent of the seriousness of the subject we are

:27:24.:27:27.

debating. He referred to the deaths that occurred to the troubles over

:27:28.:27:37.

over 3600 deaths. More people have died of the there own hands -- the

:27:38.:27:45.

work we do hear it must always be done in the context of those

:27:46.:27:49.

realities. Of the existence, still, of a legacy that is so horrific that

:27:50.:27:56.

sometimes it is almost impossible to almost absorb its full strength.

:27:57.:28:01.

Those suicide figures, the figures that are very seldom publicised, are

:28:02.:28:09.

utterly bone chilling. Any of us feel that we are somehow fighting

:28:10.:28:12.

fighting in our determination to drive forward the peace process in

:28:13.:28:16.

Northern Ireland, let us never forget it didn't and I'm Good

:28:17.:28:20.

Friday. The problem still exists today. We heard a wonderful comment

:28:21.:28:26.

and speech that from the first time the honourable Lady from a soft

:28:27.:28:31.

down. Having considered at great length her comment, I had decided

:28:32.:28:35.

that yes, I agree with her. We should stay in the European union

:28:36.:28:40.

for many, many reasons. She was so right, yet again, to refer to the

:28:41.:28:45.

troubles and to the victims. It is interesting that we didn't stray far

:28:46.:28:49.

and wide, and occasionally we pushed the envelope of a direct relevance.

:28:50.:28:56.

Certainly, when we moved out, particularly in a wide ranging

:28:57.:29:00.

horizon scanning speech by the honourable gentleman, we trespassed

:29:01.:29:07.

in some of the byways of the debate which I hadn't anticipated we would

:29:08.:29:12.

be discussing. I think in one of the other interventions by the

:29:13.:29:16.

honourable Lady for North Down, when she referred to the New Clause

:29:17.:29:20.

eight, particularly the new proposed section 48, and undertaken by

:29:21.:29:27.

members, I say to the house, and particularly to the Secretary of

:29:28.:29:29.

State, I don't think we have heard the last of it. It is from a

:29:30.:29:33.

business, but legislation on the floor of this house today, and

:29:34.:29:37.

legislation at committee stage on the floor of his house. I expect New

:29:38.:29:44.

Clause eight, especially New Clause 41 B will to back for us to discuss

:29:45.:29:52.

later on. This is one of the few Northern Ireland debates that has

:29:53.:29:57.

not been blessed by a 50 pound division from East Londonderry. I

:29:58.:30:05.

confess to a feeling of frustration and sadness. Particularly, as I have

:30:06.:30:12.

enjoyed the company of the honourable gentleman in a cracking

:30:13.:30:17.

good night in the intercostal night. -- the orange juice flowed like

:30:18.:30:25.

orange juice. LAUGHTER has an absolute brilliant evening, showing

:30:26.:30:29.

that we didn't need artificial stimulation, and there exists in the

:30:30.:30:33.

heart of hearts, a wonderful community that I hadn't been aware

:30:34.:30:38.

of. It was such a pleasure to be able to be speaking at while both of

:30:39.:30:41.

them sat, and had to listen. LAUGHTER in conclusion, Madam Deputy

:30:42.:30:51.

Speaker, I would like to say that this is an excellent second reading.

:30:52.:30:57.

We are now moving into committee stage next week. There will be more

:30:58.:31:01.

discussion, but let us not forget what I said at the beginning. The

:31:02.:31:06.

motive for this whole debate, the one consistent golden thread has run

:31:07.:31:11.

through it, is a golden thread of optimism. I pay credit to every

:31:12.:31:15.

single person who has participated in the debate tonight, and so many

:31:16.:31:19.

outside of this chamber who have contributed toward that. I look

:31:20.:31:23.

forward to the full implementation of the fresh start agreement, and

:31:24.:31:27.

the Stormont House Agreement, as another step on a road to that

:31:28.:31:31.

shared, peaceful future that we all aspire to. Thank you Madam Deputy

:31:32.:31:41.

Speaker. It is always a pleasure following the member, who in every

:31:42.:31:46.

debate is optimistic and positive, and it is especially welcome that in

:31:47.:31:50.

another stage of the Stormont house and fresh start agreement, we find

:31:51.:31:54.

ourselves in a second reading with the full support of the Majesty's

:31:55.:31:58.

opposition. I want to pay tribute to the numbers, and the whole opposite

:31:59.:32:03.

front bench for their continued support in making sure that we move

:32:04.:32:08.

Northern Ireland onward to normalisation, and they sure that

:32:09.:32:10.

bulbs in the road we have experienced are sorted out to that

:32:11.:32:15.

province, in northern Ireland clinical settlement -- political

:32:16.:32:27.

settlement, to beckon. -- set in. I would like to respond to some of the

:32:28.:32:31.

points raised in this debate. I would start back reiterating the

:32:32.:32:36.

importance of the bill in terms of implementation of November's fresh

:32:37.:32:39.

start agreement as a whole, as well as specific provisions that give

:32:40.:32:45.

affect to the independent reporting commission and increase fiscal

:32:46.:32:48.

responsibility in the budget setting process. Paramilitary activity has

:32:49.:32:56.

been a blight on northern Irish, and he will be tackled together. The

:32:57.:32:59.

measures on this bill will create an independent body that will work

:33:00.:33:05.

toward ending her military activity in Northern Ireland once and for

:33:06.:33:10.

all. The budget measures in the bill achieves what if you set out in the

:33:11.:33:14.

first argument. It makes sure the executive cannot consider spending

:33:15.:33:17.

plans that exceed the block grant allocated from the Treasury. Further

:33:18.:33:22.

to the points that were made by members today, I would like to

:33:23.:33:28.

respond to some of them. Can I join with others in sending condolences

:33:29.:33:35.

to his family, and I hope that he knows we are here to support him in

:33:36.:33:40.

his lost, and also to their family. We are incredibly grateful for the

:33:41.:33:46.

forensic support that his committee gives to Northern Ireland politics.

:33:47.:33:58.

Indeed, the government pot -- it helps us build trust in northern

:33:59.:34:04.

Ireland. As a former member of the Scottish Parliament, and the

:34:05.:34:08.

internal routines of devolution, some of the measures the SNP support

:34:09.:34:11.

in this bill are not measures that would have been right for them in

:34:12.:34:15.

Scotland, by now that they do so for the reasons that she eloquently

:34:16.:34:20.

articulated earlier. To try to move Northern Ireland forward and try to

:34:21.:34:23.

achieve a settlement to allow them to move forward and put those

:34:24.:34:28.

troubles behind them. I'd like to pay tribute to the DEP, and the

:34:29.:34:35.

Member for Belfast North, who articulated history between former

:34:36.:34:40.

first minister. -- DEP. Without the former first minister we would not

:34:41.:34:44.

be here discussing this or the previous bill. I am grateful for the

:34:45.:34:48.

support they have given to the government to resolve some of the

:34:49.:34:52.

issues that led to that in last year. I am very grateful to the

:34:53.:35:02.

positive attitude from the DEP, and the support they have put in place.

:35:03.:35:10.

It is that determination to deal with those issues in the Stormont,

:35:11.:35:14.

by the executive, by the first minister, that means I am incredibly

:35:15.:35:18.

optimistic for Northern Ireland in how it is going to progress. I hope

:35:19.:35:22.

that the bonds that effectively appeared in the road when I was

:35:23.:35:26.

appointed are put behind us. We are moving forward, killing with a

:35:27.:35:30.

paramilitary past, hopefully stopping any in the future, but also

:35:31.:35:34.

grasped with both hands the opportunities, and the economic

:35:35.:35:40.

challenges that are presented. To the member of Belfast South, I hear

:35:41.:35:45.

the issues about legacy. We all want to solve those issues, and in the

:35:46.:35:52.

last few weeks and months, myself and my friend the Secretary of

:35:53.:35:55.

State, the Minister for Armed Forces, we met with the Justice

:35:56.:35:59.

minister, the deputy and first minister, I think that everyone is

:36:00.:36:04.

united in trying to get to a position where he can deal with the

:36:05.:36:08.

legacy of the past in order to move forward. The Treasury has agreed to

:36:09.:36:14.

a package of funding, ?150 million to fund dealing with those issues.

:36:15.:36:19.

Of course, we cannot just impose that hundred and ?50 million on an

:36:20.:36:25.

unreformed system. We are all trying to work together to produce a

:36:26.:36:29.

long-term solution, not a short-term solution for some of the issues. I

:36:30.:36:34.

would like to say one thing about national security. It is often in

:36:35.:36:41.

need about, that it is somehow being used as a block, unreasonable block

:36:42.:36:51.

on progress. Try the troubles, informers, neighbours, workmates,

:36:52.:36:55.

ordinary members of the public top security forces against the people

:36:56.:36:59.

who intimidated their own communities. It wasn't just

:37:00.:37:02.

informers, but everybody will stop people who didn't agree with

:37:03.:37:05.

violence. They might have been nationalists. Those people deserve

:37:06.:37:10.

our protection. Not only do they deserve it, but we have a duty to

:37:11.:37:13.

protect those people, because without their information and,

:37:14.:37:18.

without the helpful tip-offs, the confidential hotline being used,

:37:19.:37:22.

without people in the heart of the communities saying that they now

:37:23.:37:26.

stand for balance and we want to and paramilitary bullying, we would not

:37:27.:37:29.

have reached the end of the troubles. I think it should be

:37:30.:37:32.

remembered that when people and around national security as a

:37:33.:37:36.

throwaway line, at the heart of it it is about protecting those people,

:37:37.:37:39.

and giving them the duty of protection that we owe them, because

:37:40.:37:44.

without them I think more blood would have been shed on those dates

:37:45.:37:48.

of Northern Ireland. We shouldn't forget the role that they play. When

:37:49.:37:52.

asked I thank him for giving way. Would he agree that the place

:37:53.:38:00.

ombudsman, an instance, in terms of their investigation, they have

:38:01.:38:03.

always respected that fully. And never preached or compromised

:38:04.:38:09.

anybody's interest in that regard. Surely, others could be trusted to

:38:10.:38:15.

adhere to the same standard? Everyone is interested in the powers

:38:16.:38:18.

that they are granted. The national security does not discover actions a

:38:19.:38:27.

few, but a whole range of people involved in trying to make sure that

:38:28.:38:32.

our society is safe and secure. We should just rubber that national

:38:33.:38:42.

security is not used lightly. It is openly scrutinised. By the courts.

:38:43.:38:49.

The corner, and the judges often make the final decisions on many of

:38:50.:38:54.

these issues, and a CD full fax. It is important that we remember that

:38:55.:38:57.

national security is actually about protecting life and people. The

:38:58.:39:06.

honourable member is right about the financial provisions. We think it is

:39:07.:39:09.

very important that in order to allow a stable and secure budget to

:39:10.:39:14.

go forward, to allow everyone in the assembly to make sure that they have

:39:15.:39:18.

a role in producing a budget, and delivering services for a better

:39:19.:39:24.

governance and better services for the people in Northern Ireland. It

:39:25.:39:31.

is a good example of making government work better, and we are

:39:32.:39:34.

delighted that as the government we can measure that is put in place. To

:39:35.:39:42.

the number of South Antrim. On the definition of paramilitary activity,

:39:43.:39:46.

that is, in our view, to be left to the commission to decide. It would

:39:47.:39:49.

be hard in a piece of primary legislation to describe a

:39:50.:39:52.

paramilitary activity. It is the government pot make you it is not

:39:53.:39:57.

for us to prescribed to the four commissioners and the commissioner

:39:58.:40:04.

how they should look at. I hear the member's comments about the

:40:05.:40:06.

paramilitaries leaving the stage. When I hear that I think I wouldn't

:40:07.:40:10.

like to be in the green room at the time of that. There is no place for

:40:11.:40:14.

paramilitaries in Northern Ireland, and there never has been. We must

:40:15.:40:18.

make sure that there never is in the future. I think, I welcome his

:40:19.:40:24.

support for the bill. I welcome his observations. The Independent

:40:25.:40:26.

monetary commission have the macro will cover paramilitary activity in

:40:27.:40:32.

the south of Ireland. That is important, and I know that people in

:40:33.:40:35.

Ireland will take note of that. The guard have been supported over the

:40:36.:40:40.

years to ensuring that cross-border activity is counted. They know that

:40:41.:40:46.

all of this is effective between North and the South, something that

:40:47.:40:49.

we will focus on. He made a powerful point. It should be absolutely clear

:40:50.:41:00.

that it was many groups that killed innocent people on the streets of

:41:01.:41:05.

Northern Ireland, and indeed on the mainland of the UK. Selective leaks

:41:06.:41:13.

and salacious allegations contained -- cannot change that fact. The

:41:14.:41:20.

narrative that has been growing is very dangerous to the history of

:41:21.:41:23.

Northern Ireland, because the reality is that it was those groups

:41:24.:41:29.

that chose to go out on a night and kill people. It was those groups

:41:30.:41:32.

were planted the bombs, and we won't let the alternative narrative the

:41:33.:41:37.

plaintiff, that somehow somebody else caused it, and therefore they

:41:38.:41:40.

were not guilty of what they did that day. We hear that loud and

:41:41.:41:42.

clear. Given that these organizations need

:41:43.:41:50.

to be blamed for what they did, the team now regret that the British

:41:51.:41:56.

Government maintain the status as a legal organisation and consistently

:41:57.:42:02.

refused to prescribe them? Well, if memory serves me right, the word in

:42:03.:42:08.

1992, I think I was not in this house, I was not privy to the

:42:09.:42:12.

government, in fact in 1992I was walking around in west Belfast. The

:42:13.:42:16.

idea that I can condemn or support the ruling, all I know is that at

:42:17.:42:19.

the time, I was serving in northern Ireland, I was grateful that they

:42:20.:42:26.

were prescribed, any paramilitary organisation should be prescribed

:42:27.:42:30.

and the organisation that uses fear, terror, and bullying should have of

:42:31.:42:35.

course been not only prescribe it also boasted that take part should

:42:36.:42:39.

be convicted. To the member of South Down, we should not forget in this

:42:40.:42:44.

house that the SDLP long-standing opposition to paramilitary

:42:45.:42:48.

intimidation, very often he you bear the brunt of that intimidation and

:42:49.:42:54.

many of the party, all the parties in this house have experienced

:42:55.:43:00.

first-hand the intimidation of paramilitaries. Either within their

:43:01.:43:04.

own community that they represented or indeed the neighbouring

:43:05.:43:06.

communities that sought to keep them out. I pay tribute to that

:43:07.:43:12.

long-standing commitment to peace in the democratic process, don't forget

:43:13.:43:19.

that, I don't take it lightly at the issues of national security. On the

:43:20.:43:22.

Legacy issues as I have said earlier, we are trying our best, all

:43:23.:43:26.

of us, my right honourable friend regularly has meetings with the

:43:27.:43:30.

victims of the communities to make sure that they feel they are doing

:43:31.:43:34.

our best. We are going to get there, we are good to try and resolve it,

:43:35.:43:37.

and that will be hopefully as soon as we can all get agreement. Can I

:43:38.:43:43.

press the Minister once more on this issue, he mentioned the Legacy

:43:44.:43:46.

issues in dealing with the legacy of the past to stop after secretary of

:43:47.:43:52.

state, I want you to be clear, throughout this interesting and the

:43:53.:43:56.

debate, does the Minister recognised, when he and the

:43:57.:43:59.

secretary of State look again at releasing some of the funding for

:44:00.:44:02.

the Treasury and the government have put aside for dealing with legacy

:44:03.:44:08.

issues to fund the PSN I and the corner services to deal with some of

:44:09.:44:11.

these legacy issues which were supposed to be dealt with by other

:44:12.:44:16.

institutions because of the inability to actually come to an

:44:17.:44:19.

agreement, they have been that to deal with it but have not been given

:44:20.:44:24.

the resources to tackle it, will the Minister look again at that?

:44:25.:44:28.

Absolutely, we will support any measures that field with the Legacy,

:44:29.:44:31.

my right honourable friend said that, what we must make sure is that

:44:32.:44:36.

we cannot just release the money, we need all the actors on the stage to

:44:37.:44:42.

produce the solution. We need the victims to pour the solution, we

:44:43.:44:46.

need the PSN I to support the solution, we need the courts to

:44:47.:44:50.

support the solution, we need the executive support the solution, if

:44:51.:44:53.

he were to release money and no one else was supporting the schemes or

:44:54.:44:59.

the Koerner's for example court changes than we would not

:45:00.:45:02.

necessarily solve the issues. We will absolutely look with all

:45:03.:45:06.

seriousness and all support at any measures that come to us for solving

:45:07.:45:12.

the Legacy issues. The good news is, and anyone who has ever been in

:45:13.:45:15.

government will know is that we have caught the agreement of the Treasury

:45:16.:45:19.

for the sum and principle which is obviously have the battle, ?150

:45:20.:45:24.

million is there, I think that is meaning that the gap between getting

:45:25.:45:27.

the money and delivering it is simply a matter about getting an

:45:28.:45:29.

agreement between all the significant stakeholders in Northern

:45:30.:45:36.

Ireland. I think that is something that we are all determined to do it

:45:37.:45:40.

is one of our priorities, once this bill has passed, we are all trying

:45:41.:45:45.

to get there, and we will work with all parties to try and do it.

:45:46.:45:51.

Including matter that the Speaker... Can I think the Minister for giving

:45:52.:45:57.

way, whenever I was speaking, I referred these pics of monies

:45:58.:46:03.

between the national crime agency and the PSN I, would it be possible,

:46:04.:46:07.

Madam Deputy Speaker, for the Minister to follow that up in

:46:08.:46:13.

writing with an answer to me? , while what I can say, she reminded

:46:14.:46:17.

me of one of the points, ?28 million has been allocated for it typing

:46:18.:46:24.

paramilitary activity, how that is divided is as far as I'm

:46:25.:46:27.

understanding operational decisions, but who needs it and where should it

:46:28.:46:32.

go, but there has been a sum of ?20 million, we think that is a step in

:46:33.:46:37.

the right direction to tackling it, and if there is any more to tell I

:46:38.:46:43.

was certainly right to her, but the including I would like to remind the

:46:44.:46:45.

House that the Speaker, including I would like to remind the House of

:46:46.:46:51.

disability support it plays a significant part in our efforts to

:46:52.:46:54.

support a stable and workable devolution settlement in Northern

:46:55.:46:57.

Ireland. I therefore Madam Deputy Speaker she helped to support the

:46:58.:47:02.

bill. Hear, hear! The question is the don't be read a second time, as

:47:03.:47:07.

many as that opinion say Aye's, of the contrary No's. I think the Aye's

:47:08.:47:15.

have it. The Aye's have it. Programme motion to be moved

:47:16.:47:19.

formerly. I baked them both. The question is on the order papers, as

:47:20.:47:24.

many of that say Aye's, on the contrary No's, the Aye's have it,

:47:25.:47:28.

the Aye's have it. Resolution to be moved formerly? I. The question is

:47:29.:47:35.

as on the order papers, as many say Aye's, the contrary No's, the Aye's

:47:36.:47:40.

have it, the Aye's have it. Notion number four on road traffic. To

:47:41.:47:47.

move? Not move. Notion number five on referendums, minister to move? I

:47:48.:47:52.

beg to move. The question is as on the order papers, as many of that

:47:53.:47:56.

opinion say Aye's, on the contrary No's, I think the Aye's have it, the

:47:57.:48:01.

Aye's have it. Notion number six on estimates, minister to move? Not

:48:02.:48:08.

move. Not move. We now come to motion number seven. Relating to

:48:09.:48:14.

education committee bill. I baked them both. The question is that on

:48:15.:48:17.

the order paper, as many of that opinion say Aye's, on the contrary

:48:18.:48:21.

No's, I think the Aye's have it. We now come to motion number eight

:48:22.:48:25.

relating to doing committee on budgetary in the bail. The question

:48:26.:48:31.

is that on the order paper as many of that opinion say Aye's, on the

:48:32.:48:34.

contrary No's, I think the Aye's have it. I baked a move that this

:48:35.:48:42.

house do now adjourn. The question is that this house do now adjourn,

:48:43.:48:50.

in Blackford? Hear, hear!. Thank you matter that the Speaker, in our out

:48:51.:48:58.

of the European Union, matter G Speaker, it is right that Parliament

:48:59.:49:01.

take is its possibilities as far as security concerned, seriously. As

:49:02.:49:06.

part of this debate, we need to take course possibilities seriously for a

:49:07.:49:12.

the environment, it is worth recapping why we had emergency

:49:13.:49:17.

vessels am a Debian a response to the 1994 report following the oil

:49:18.:49:23.

spill off the coast, allowing the disaster 86,000 tonnes of oil were

:49:24.:49:29.

released into the North Sea. We got lucky to some extent that the oil

:49:30.:49:34.

was largely dispersed. In other areas and in other circumstances,

:49:35.:49:38.

such an oil spill could be devastating. The ships were put in

:49:39.:49:46.

place to protect human and marine life. Men deputy speaker, it was

:49:47.:49:52.

right in 1994, still remains right today. The desire to provide safety

:49:53.:50:02.

cannot come at the expense of a penny-pinching government walking

:50:03.:50:03.

away from Asus possibilities. Hear, hear! It is irresponsibility of this

:50:04.:50:09.

government to maintain that protection, the UK Government kept

:50:10.:50:15.

hearing is all in the Scottish referendum that we were after

:50:16.:50:22.

together. How can there be any entity in that statement that this

:50:23.:50:27.

government does not take our marine safety seriously. What price, our

:50:28.:50:36.

safety cannot be traded away on the desired to steer course unless

:50:37.:50:39.

minister. If the government, might as aunt Sadie, it compromises on its

:50:40.:50:46.

legitimacy to govern. In 2011 among the UK Government announced a

:50:47.:50:50.

movement of the vessels although there was a subsequent agreement to

:50:51.:50:56.

retain one vessel. This is now under threat of being removed next month.

:50:57.:51:02.

Sir Alan Massey, Chief Executive Officer did two weeks ago that

:51:03.:51:06.

following a formal risk assessment that their was unacceptable. This is

:51:07.:51:17.

unacceptable. It was also a accessible to remove the vessel, if

:51:18.:51:22.

there easy a risk in the that I love, there is a risk in the West.

:51:23.:51:29.

Put simply that it is too far away to respond quickly enough to any

:51:30.:51:36.

incidents of the West of Scotland. I thank my Honorable friend for

:51:37.:51:39.

securing this very important debate and he will of course be aware that

:51:40.:51:45.

is one of the five islands, we have repeatedly called on the government

:51:46.:51:50.

to address maritime safety caused by the removal of the vessel in 2010,

:51:51.:51:56.

2000 11. Would he agree that this cannot be done properly by having a

:51:57.:52:02.

single DTD based alone, and it is deeply worrying that the only

:52:03.:52:08.

existing ETD is currently under threat. The possession as we come to

:52:09.:52:15.

find ourselves in... His intervention is very long, if they

:52:16.:52:17.

could keep the intervention grief, I am sure many other members could

:52:18.:52:25.

come in. My last point would be it has been left vulnerable, does he

:52:26.:52:32.

believe your mobile of the EDV. Would be utterly unthinkable. I

:52:33.:52:36.

think him for his intervention, he is correct, we cannot comprehend the

:52:37.:52:44.

risk of the loss of the vessel, it is true as he said there is no way

:52:45.:52:48.

in reasonable time that that vessel based there could get to large parts

:52:49.:52:55.

of my constituency, we have been placed at a level of risk which is

:52:56.:53:00.

unacceptable to all of us. I have asked the Minister, does he agree

:53:01.:53:06.

with the chief executive that removal of the base vessel is

:53:07.:53:10.

unacceptable, and would he give an assurance of the House tonight that

:53:11.:53:14.

the government will find the necessary funds to make sure that

:53:15.:53:18.

that vessel remained in place. This is a very simple question, and it

:53:19.:53:21.

requires a very simple yes or no answer. Madam Deputy Speaker,

:53:22.:53:28.

throughout Europe... I will make it a bit of progress and give way.

:53:29.:53:32.

Throughout Europe, the provision of emergency vessels is commonplace,

:53:33.:53:36.

for example, in France, Germany, Norway and the Netherlands. It is

:53:37.:53:43.

good practice to protect your environment and coastal communities,

:53:44.:53:47.

we should be doing the same. The Netherlands only put in place such a

:53:48.:53:52.

capability in April 2014 to provide protection for shipping and coastal

:53:53.:53:56.

communities. When so many other countries see the sense in this,

:53:57.:54:01.

what is the UK Government not accept it possibilities? That is all we're

:54:02.:54:07.

asking. Hear, hear! There has been some chatter, but maybe the vessel

:54:08.:54:13.

might be saved. This of course would be welcomed as a threat should never

:54:14.:54:16.

have been there in the first place. It does not go far enough as the

:54:17.:54:22.

Honorable member said, we need the reinstatement of the second vessel.

:54:23.:54:25.

I say to the Minister tonight, do the right thing, deliver some good

:54:26.:54:31.

news, and put the two vessels back where they should be in the northern

:54:32.:54:34.

islands and in the western isles of our country. Hear, hear! Show us

:54:35.:54:39.

minister that the government takes our safety seriously, don't leave us

:54:40.:54:43.

exposed to the threat of an environmental disaster. I am

:54:44.:54:48.

grateful to him for giving way, would he agree with me that in terms

:54:49.:54:53.

of safety and all of the other issues you buy highlighted that the

:54:54.:54:56.

UK Government need to take into account the fact that in the coming

:54:57.:55:00.

year is over 200 movements of nuclear material will be taking

:55:01.:55:04.

place and some of them will be transported by sea. Hear, hear!

:55:05.:55:10.

Before the Honorable member continues, Kenner man members that

:55:11.:55:13.

they are speaking to the chair and at the moment people are directly

:55:14.:55:17.

addressing each other and I would be grateful if members could direct

:55:18.:55:19.

their comments to the chair, thank you. Thank you, I do agree with my

:55:20.:55:25.

Honorable friend and the point he makes. I would argue there is a

:55:26.:55:29.

wider point, what we are missing here is if we had responsibility for

:55:30.:55:34.

our marine environment in Scotland, we would make sure that we had chips

:55:35.:55:39.

in place to protect over coastal community, but moreover, this

:55:40.:55:43.

unbelievable threat we face of nuclear waste being moved by sea,

:55:44.:55:49.

down the West Coast of Scotland would certainly not be tolerated by

:55:50.:55:52.

an independent Scottish Government. Hear, hear! Let us think about the

:55:53.:56:01.

risks we face in the West and north coast of Scotland. Extreme weather,

:56:02.:56:05.

treacherous coastlines and changing title patterns throughout the year,

:56:06.:56:13.

most treacherous waters and the threat of nuclear waste has been

:56:14.:56:17.

set, the threat of nuclear waste being transmitted on the coast

:56:18.:56:22.

leaves me cold. The possibility, Madam Deputy Speaker of no emergency

:56:23.:56:25.

towing misses being leaves me horrified. But added that he

:56:26.:56:31.

Speaker, the need for such vessels was cruelly demonstrated when two

:56:32.:56:35.

days after the announcement of the withdrawal of the vessels in 2011,

:56:36.:56:41.

the ship was sent to the aid of a nuclear submarine that had run

:56:42.:56:49.

aground. We don't know if it was carrying nuclear weapons, whether it

:56:50.:56:54.

was or not it's a moot point, but a nuclear sub co-writing the Isle of

:56:55.:57:00.

Skye was quite an incident. To say that such an event could not happen

:57:01.:57:05.

again? We need the security and the emergency towing vessel. I might add

:57:06.:57:08.

that the towing vessel provide some security to us, a uses the premise

:57:09.:57:13.

all presents no security to the people of Scotland. Hear, hear! What

:57:14.:57:21.

would happen if there is another, heaven forbid? We have also learnt

:57:22.:57:27.

that the TVs are not the responsibility, and they are not a

:57:28.:57:32.

budget priority. Even so, the MC admits that there is an crease in

:57:33.:57:37.

risk of the TVs that are not available, you almost could not make

:57:38.:57:41.

this up. There is an acceptance of risk, those of us in these

:57:42.:57:46.

communities, we can take the risk, we are expendable. That is the

:57:47.:57:49.

message from this government. Why should the Minister care, while I is

:57:50.:57:55.

a local MP would care for my communities, I will fight for my

:57:56.:57:58.

communities, and I want the government to take responsibility.

:57:59.:58:03.

What is the point of the MCA if it is not a statutory responsibility,

:58:04.:58:08.

why would the Minister not make this a sedentary responsibility? At me,

:58:09.:58:16.

if I may do with the issue of such vessels in the constituency. This

:58:17.:58:23.

wanton disregard for the Marine safety takes place at the time of

:58:24.:58:26.

the MCA bus was considering an application for ship to ship

:58:27.:58:32.

transfers. Here again, the government seems to be coming up

:58:33.:58:35.

short in discharging its responsibilities to consult

:58:36.:58:37.

effectively and take seriously environmental considerations. It is

:58:38.:58:42.

environmental concerns that demonstrate the need for our Marine

:58:43.:58:45.

safety to be taken seriously and our communities need to have the comfort

:58:46.:58:48.

of knowing that emergency towing vessels aren't a part of the

:58:49.:58:53.

government's response ability. We have the situation that the Scottish

:58:54.:58:56.

Government are responsible for Marine safety yet incredible as it

:58:57.:59:00.

sounds, we are not aware as to whether or not Marine Scotland were

:59:01.:59:03.

consulted as a part of this process. The application for the ship to ship

:59:04.:59:08.

transfer data the 5th of November states the MCA confirmed the main

:59:09.:59:14.

consult these beady local government authority, Scottish Environmental

:59:15.:59:16.

Protection Agency, and Scottish national heritage with the

:59:17.:59:20.

appropriate NGOs. Mr Speaker, Madam Speaker, you will note the

:59:21.:00:24.

The Minister has an issue with cost. I am pleased to see many attending

:00:25.:00:37.

this debate, because in the previous there were a few at a debate like

:00:38.:00:41.

this. The reality is that the UK government have been fast and loose

:00:42.:00:47.

because one and 25, 150, one in a hundred year event happens. They

:00:48.:00:51.

have no insurance policy as they are playing fast and loose with the

:00:52.:00:55.

Scottish coastline that he and I represent and care about. If the UK

:00:56.:01:01.

government respected Collins and Thomas as a union of families, they

:01:02.:01:08.

would allocate responsibilities. I thank him for that fine

:01:09.:01:12.

intervention. I look forward to hearing the Minister answering it.

:01:13.:01:16.

We haven't had one yet. I may say that five of us went to see Mr last

:01:17.:01:19.

November have been waiting quite some time for this government to

:01:20.:01:25.

take its responsibilities seriously. As I was mentioning the Minister has

:01:26.:01:30.

an issue with cost. The government should be looking imaginatively at

:01:31.:01:35.

looking at ETVs multifunctional in accordance with other departments.

:01:36.:01:42.

Increased White House dues, produce, inspection dues, and other

:01:43.:01:51.

activities. Time doesn't allow for revenue stream explanation, but

:01:52.:01:54.

there are many streams for income. A matter to myself and other

:01:55.:01:59.

colleagues bustier, and Nancy stated that there is no formal vessel

:02:00.:02:05.

traffic management system in the northern West -- or West region.

:02:06.:02:10.

This is a voluntary important scheme. I find that quite remarkable

:02:11.:02:14.

in this day and age, that we don't know what ships, and what dangerous

:02:15.:02:18.

cargoes are afloat in our waters. Nonetheless, Beta as it may, the

:02:19.:02:25.

voluntary scheme showed that in the northern island, there were 81

:02:26.:02:30.

tankers, and 290 general cargo vessels over a 30 day period to the

:02:31.:02:36.

9th of November last year. For the ministries West, the respective

:02:37.:02:41.

figures were 66 tankers and 202 general cargo vessels. We're not

:02:42.:02:44.

talking about the odd cargo. My honourable friend said, whether it

:02:45.:02:50.

is a wooden 25 year, I won 50 euros, or a 100 year risk, these risks you

:02:51.:02:57.

cannot afford to take. I will come back to the scheme, because we need

:02:58.:03:03.

to know how many vessels are in our waters. These numbers suggest that

:03:04.:03:07.

my communities need protection that ETVs would offer. He then later on

:03:08.:03:18.

the 17th of November includes, for example, an incident on the 19th of

:03:19.:03:24.

March 2012 when it is shipped, went aground. As there is no ETV in the

:03:25.:03:39.

Western Islands, the vessel was rescued. On the 7th of April, 2014,

:03:40.:03:45.

ETV went to the aid of another ship off of Cape wrath. More recently,

:03:46.:03:53.

the ETV went to the scene of the granting of another ship.

:03:54.:03:56.

Interestingly, the report I have states that the location was well

:03:57.:04:03.

outside the ETV's operational area. There you have it. Even in the NCAA

:04:04.:04:14.

except themselves that it is not ideally situated in order to give

:04:15.:04:18.

succor to the constituents in our area. Let's dwell on that, and in

:04:19.:04:23.

the NCAA conceding that the distance is too great to offer security. If

:04:24.:04:26.

there is one thing that demonstrates the need to maintain ETVs serving

:04:27.:04:34.

the north end of the West, that is it. Are we to sit back and hope for

:04:35.:04:39.

the best? Or will the government meet its responsibilities and

:04:40.:04:43.

provide securities to the coastal communities? We don't know what

:04:44.:04:51.

votes are going out on the West Coast of Scotland at the moment.

:04:52.:04:57.

Looking at marine trafficker, there is an oil and chemical drinker with

:04:58.:05:04.

a tonnes. There is no insurance policy at the moment, because of the

:05:05.:05:10.

negligence of the UK government. The number makes a salient point about

:05:11.:05:14.

we don't know what's going up there. We do know, but the UK government

:05:15.:05:17.

doesn't know because they are not looking, and they are not worried

:05:18.:05:23.

because it is Scotland. When neck is not Westminster, why should they

:05:24.:05:34.

care? -- it was a general cargo vessel, could we stop and think for

:05:35.:05:39.

one minute? What happened if that was in oil vessel that had run

:05:40.:05:45.

aground? Just think of the environmental damage that could take

:05:46.:05:49.

place. Think of the threat to the tourist industry in the area. These

:05:50.:05:55.

are fragile economies that depend on tourism. We cannot accept those

:05:56.:06:00.

risks. The government has to act to protect the communities up and down

:06:01.:06:05.

to the West Coast and Miller coast of Scotland. On the 7th of May,

:06:06.:06:13.

2015, a ship rolled down and was told to lyric. This is an incident

:06:14.:06:21.

where the ETV was deployed. It was deployed on 13 occasions between

:06:22.:06:25.

November 2011 and November 20 15. That is a significant number of

:06:26.:06:28.

incidents, but we should remember that these vessels are required, as

:06:29.:06:35.

my friend said, as an insurance policy. I'm going to wind up.

:06:36.:06:46.

Incidentally, the ship crashing in Italy was in Orkney before it was

:06:47.:06:52.

deployed. Yet another warning of the need for an ETV. The cost associated

:06:53.:06:56.

with these vessels are in insurance against much more significant costs

:06:57.:07:05.

to society of an environmental disaster, for example an oil spill

:07:06.:07:09.

on the coastline. Providing such vessels is a price that we must all

:07:10.:07:15.

pay, and I ask the Minister to positively this evening. Can I

:07:16.:07:22.

congratulate the honourable gentleman on the securing this very

:07:23.:07:29.

important debate. And having the foresight to do it when the main

:07:30.:07:33.

business in the chamber collapsed early, which will allow a few others

:07:34.:07:37.

of us to contribute. I hope other honourable members will have

:07:38.:07:44.

something to say. The honourable gentleman has already explained, at

:07:45.:07:49.

some length, the importance of this island and coastal community. It was

:07:50.:07:58.

not, I think, a great surprise when we read statement that the provision

:07:59.:08:04.

of this emergency service was no longer a priority for the NCAA and

:08:05.:08:12.

emergency department. It was a short-sighted decision. The extent

:08:13.:08:15.

to which the NCAA have been culpable in relation to the management of

:08:16.:08:19.

this resource, and the point I was going to make to the honourable

:08:20.:08:27.

Desmond toward his and, wasn't that, in fact, it is not just the way that

:08:28.:08:33.

we only have one ETV operates. The way that the NCAA have operated in

:08:34.:08:38.

recent times, they have been more reluctant to test that. The

:08:39.:08:46.

gentleman made reference to a ship from a fish farming company that was

:08:47.:08:52.

owned and operated by constituents of mine. I was in contact with them

:08:53.:08:57.

and have been in correspondence about this particular incident.

:08:58.:09:03.

Essentially, that vote was linked with the life but holding off of the

:09:04.:09:06.

docs, and it was quite some time that they could be persuaded to

:09:07.:09:11.

task. That is illustrative of the attitude that the and she has

:09:12.:09:20.

towards -- NCAA has toured the emergency towing vessels. They

:09:21.:09:32.

outlined their risk assessment in February. That was one of the most

:09:33.:09:39.

concerning episodes, explanations that I have heard from any

:09:40.:09:42.

governmental department or agency in my 14 and a half years as a member

:09:43.:09:50.

of Parliament. First of all, the risk assessment has not been done

:09:51.:09:56.

with accordance with industry standards. It has not been done with

:09:57.:10:00.

people who are independent of the agency. It has been done by one

:10:01.:10:07.

person, not a panel, and an employee of the NCAA. When you heard the

:10:08.:10:14.

risks of assessment, they drill down in some detail into the question of

:10:15.:10:19.

collision. In fact, because of the volume of traffic, collision in the

:10:20.:10:27.

channels and elsewhere has never really been a problem. They have

:10:28.:10:31.

access to the risk of something that has never actually happened in the

:10:32.:10:35.

past, while ignoring the actual risks that we have seen, and

:10:36.:10:41.

encountered in everyday situations. Some of which the honourable

:10:42.:10:46.

gentleman has already touched on. They look in detail at the traffic

:10:47.:10:55.

in these channels, which consists, notably, not exclusively, of ferry

:10:56.:11:09.

traffic. Modern, well vessels. They did not even look at the traffic

:11:10.:11:19.

going into other places. The oil tankers that form the basis for the

:11:20.:11:25.

need for ETVs going into Shetland were not part of their risk

:11:26.:11:34.

assessment. It was a seriously deficient to work. Even in that

:11:35.:11:38.

piece of work, for all of its apparent deficiencies, still

:11:39.:11:45.

concluded that at the end of the day, to remove the ETV would leave

:11:46.:11:50.

the north and north western waters of skull and exposed to unacceptable

:11:51.:11:57.

levels of risks. -- Scotland. They went on to speak about the

:11:58.:12:02.

availability of alternatives. It was well apparent from the discussion

:12:03.:12:06.

that followed on the 10th of February, that in fact, the MCA does

:12:07.:12:10.

not see where these alternatives are going to come from. All of this

:12:11.:12:17.

becoming a mere seven weeks before the contract is going to end on the

:12:18.:12:24.

31st of March. This is all work which, if the NCAA were serious

:12:25.:12:28.

about discharging its responsibilities with safety, should

:12:29.:12:31.

have been done before they were prepared to offer ETVs any

:12:32.:12:38.

confidence of spending review. It wasn't done, and frankly what we are

:12:39.:12:45.

left with is a mess. It is not fault of the Minister. The fault lies with

:12:46.:12:53.

the NCAA, but it is the Minister's responsibility. I do not see how it

:12:54.:12:57.

can possibly be fixed between now and the 31st of March. They will

:12:58.:13:03.

apparently go back to Edinburgh on the 4th of March and see what the

:13:04.:13:07.

NCAA have to say at that point. Given the parameters that are

:13:08.:13:12.

outlined on the 10th of February, I don't see what new can possibly be

:13:13.:13:17.

done. I ask of the Minister tonight, my asked is that if you can offer us

:13:18.:13:24.

nothing else, can he offer us this: a little bit more breathing space,

:13:25.:13:28.

so that the work that should have been done thus far it can be done.

:13:29.:13:34.

It would be criminally irresponsible for the government to allow that

:13:35.:13:39.

contract to lapse on the 31st of March, and for there to be no

:13:40.:13:46.

coverage thereafter. This is a matter, Madam Deputy Speaker, where

:13:47.:13:53.

the concerns have come not just from the industries, but also from the

:13:54.:13:58.

local authorities. I would hope that if the Minister is prepared to offer

:13:59.:14:02.

us a bit more time, he might agree to meet with me, other parliamentary

:14:03.:14:10.

colleagues, and with local authorities who did actually make

:14:11.:14:15.

that request of the NCAA on the 10th of February. Perhaps when he comes

:14:16.:14:18.

this evening, the Minister will tell us whether he is prepared to do

:14:19.:14:28.

that. Even better, would he be able to call that meeting in the north of

:14:29.:14:33.

Scotland or the aisles. This would give us breathing space to look at

:14:34.:14:37.

the way that this contract has been operated in the past. It is

:14:38.:14:42.

expensive, we know, but it is an expensive contract that is worth

:14:43.:14:47.

paying. There is an opportunity at the moment, because of the volume of

:14:48.:14:53.

work that is going to the togs that have the capacity that would be

:14:54.:15:00.

required to do this work, to get a good deal for the government and

:15:01.:15:06.

taxpayer. One of the two but he meeting at the 10th of February was

:15:07.:15:12.

the chair of the tuggs operating Association. He said that he could

:15:13.:15:22.

secure a contract that run for five, ten, 15 years. It would also give

:15:23.:15:27.

us, within island and coastal communities, the knowledge that we

:15:28.:15:30.

have a provision going forward, and we wouldn't just be living from

:15:31.:15:36.

cover into spending review to Comprehensive Spending Review.

:15:37.:15:43.

Another honourable member reminded us of the genesis of the tuggs and

:15:44.:15:56.

other report. In 1992I was still dealing with the long-tail of cases

:15:57.:16:01.

coming out of that when I was first elected year, nine years later, in

:16:02.:16:14.

2001. It is now a -- it is not an exaggeration that lives were changed

:16:15.:16:18.

forever that the ship ran aground. We talk about the impact on the

:16:19.:16:23.

industries, about the economic, environmental impact, they are

:16:24.:16:29.

absolutely true. The human impact of something like that happening is

:16:30.:16:33.

absolutely phenomenal, and they just don't know how you could put a price

:16:34.:16:39.

on that. I have seen what happens if you don't take it seriously, and you

:16:40.:16:43.

allow it to happen again. That is what happened in the northwest

:16:44.:16:52.

corner of Spain. The prestige rank aground there, the second major oil

:16:53.:16:57.

spill in that area in ten years. I remember the scene that as a newly

:16:58.:17:03.

elected MP and being absolutely horrified by what I saw in terms of

:17:04.:17:08.

the posttraumatic effects on these communities which had been blighted,

:17:09.:17:13.

at that time not just once, but twice. The communities we are

:17:14.:17:18.

talking about here, because of their location and their geography, their

:17:19.:17:22.

history and background, are some of the most precious and fragile that

:17:23.:17:27.

we have within our country. That is why it would be, as the honourable

:17:28.:17:33.

member has already said, unacceptable to leave them exposed

:17:34.:17:36.

to for their risk anyway it is currently proposed. Thank you very

:17:37.:17:46.

much indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker. Could I congratulate the honourable

:17:47.:17:52.

member for securing the debate this evening on the subject of ETVs.

:17:53.:17:56.

Could I suggest only the Department for transport could come up with a

:17:57.:17:59.

three letter acronym for a three letter word tugg. I share his

:18:00.:18:07.

passion for protecting the status coast. It was said that I didn't

:18:08.:18:16.

care about Scotland. Gandhi is every much a part of my country as your

:18:17.:18:21.

church or any other part. I care about the environment of Scotland,

:18:22.:18:24.

and the welfare of Seaman on that part of our seas. I and the given

:18:25.:18:39.

concerned, will see his concern manifested not only in the retention

:18:40.:18:45.

of the ETV togs in the northern isles, but the return of those in

:18:46.:18:51.

other places? Let me develop my argument, and I will come to that

:18:52.:18:55.

particular point. Scotland is not only a stunning landscape, but a

:18:56.:18:59.

home of important industries like agriculture, and fishing, which are

:19:00.:19:03.

economically important to Scotland and the whole of the UK. Protecting

:19:04.:19:09.

the environment and safety at sea are our top priorities, and a point

:19:10.:19:14.

was raised during the honourable member's comments about the oil

:19:15.:19:20.

transfer license. Could I point out that Marine Scotland were directly

:19:21.:19:25.

consulted on the 10th of December, and on the 8th of February when the

:19:26.:19:30.

consultation ended they were not responsive. They said they were not

:19:31.:19:33.

intending to respond. I hope that clarifies that particular point.

:19:34.:19:38.

Shipping has a good safety record, but we must guard against

:19:39.:19:40.

complacency, because incidents do happen. The latest tragedy to befall

:19:41.:19:53.

the Scottish coast, the oil was disbursed we were lucky. But I

:19:54.:19:59.

visited the area as a member of the European prominent environmental

:20:00.:20:10.

community, committee. It was heart breaking to see the sea birds that

:20:11.:20:14.

were affected by that particular oil. That is now 23 years ago. It is

:20:15.:20:20.

to the credit of the shipping industry and the skills of its

:20:21.:20:24.

seafarers that we have not had an incident of the same scale and the

:20:25.:20:29.

last 23 years. As we have heard the Gaylord Donelson conducted a

:20:30.:20:34.

extensive review of incidents. His report called save ships, cleaning

:20:35.:20:43.

seas, was published in 1994. It is easy to select quotes from his

:20:44.:20:46.

excellent report. He recommended a system to ensure togs with adequate

:20:47.:20:58.

-- tugg togs with -- they should remain at her for service. That is

:20:59.:21:04.

what happened on the coast with the exception of Scotland. The industry

:21:05.:21:12.

paid directly for college. The Lord Donaldson was equally clear that

:21:13.:21:16.

prevention should be met with potential polluters rather than the

:21:17.:21:22.

Government or the public. At as well and good, but if there are tugg

:21:23.:21:30.

boats available to do that work. But if there are no tugg boats to do

:21:31.:21:34.

that work, a responsible government would make sure that that capacity

:21:35.:21:41.

is there where the market and public sector is failing. That is happening

:21:42.:21:44.

on the West Coast of Scotland, and that is why this debate be been had,

:21:45.:21:49.

because of that there and the lack of the boats. If you would relax a

:21:50.:21:54.

little, I will come to the point I am making in this debate. Perhaps,

:21:55.:21:59.

he might find he might need not be as irate as he is. I share his

:22:00.:22:06.

concerns. Of course, the world has moved on in the 20 or so years he

:22:07.:22:12.

has made his report. Shipping safety has moved on to. We have seen

:22:13.:22:17.

introduction of new maritime safety systems, electronic charts, bridge

:22:18.:22:23.

watching systems, integrated Bridge navigation systems, automatic

:22:24.:22:31.

identification systems. Training for seafarers, improved engine systems,

:22:32.:22:38.

and international maritime codes. All of these add to the tools of

:22:39.:22:46.

safer navigation process. I am grateful for him for giving away. I

:22:47.:22:52.

agree with the points of his points of improvement. Some of the boats

:22:53.:22:59.

that ran aground... That is the point. Even with the improvements,

:23:00.:23:04.

there is still a risk to our communities from something like this

:23:05.:23:08.

happening, from the unexpected happening, from an oil tanker

:23:09.:23:12.

running aground, and it is how we get protection even with those

:23:13.:23:16.

improvements and in the shipping industry. That is absolutely valid,

:23:17.:23:20.

and I am talking about some of the other vessels around the coast which

:23:21.:23:23.

would have been able to remove because of his other factors. There

:23:24.:23:29.

is improved monitoring from the shore above from the Coast Guard and

:23:30.:23:33.

Port Authority. That is why we felt it was right in 2011 to take the

:23:34.:23:38.

decision to withdraw government funding tuggs in certain areas.

:23:39.:23:46.

Indeed, the savings there were substantial. Withdrawing the ETVs

:23:47.:23:51.

elsewhere saved the public purse approximately 32.5 million over the

:23:52.:23:57.

last spending review period. Indeed, the ETV based in Orkney was funded

:23:58.:24:01.

until the 31st of March at the cost of two to ?3 million per year. The

:24:02.:24:10.

availability of commercial tugg operations in those areas persuaded

:24:11.:24:14.

us it was no longer appropriate for the UK taxpayer to fund the

:24:15.:24:17.

provision. That decision has been borne out by the fact that

:24:18.:24:22.

commercial towers have been providing assistance where

:24:23.:24:25.

necessary. We recognise the picture is different around the Scottish

:24:26.:24:29.

coast with a lack of larger togs. One government tugg has been

:24:30.:24:36.

retained their up operating both in the north and West. The position was

:24:37.:24:42.

carefully considered, and based on the density of the shipping based in

:24:43.:24:48.

the North and West Isle region, and the availability of shelter and

:24:49.:24:52.

implement weather, and the ready availability of effective logistics

:24:53.:25:00.

support. Tanker vessels that carry the greatest weight, and predicated

:25:01.:25:05.

availability in and around the islands. That costs two to ?3

:25:06.:25:12.

million honestly. Since the retention in 2011, the towing vessel

:25:13.:25:17.

Heracles has been used to tell only four times. The toner has been asked

:25:18.:25:21.

to stand by on other occasions purely as a precautionary measure.

:25:22.:25:26.

At no time has any ship needed a commercial tow failed to secure one,

:25:27.:25:30.

nor has there been any occurrence of pollution with the ring environment

:25:31.:25:35.

because of our effective towing service. It is therefore right to

:25:36.:25:40.

consider whether it is appropriate for the UK taxpayer to fund this

:25:41.:25:44.

provision. We have not included the provision and our current spending

:25:45.:25:45.

plans. . Am grateful for the Minister to give

:25:46.:25:56.

way and he is... The argument he is making akin to the argument saying

:25:57.:26:00.

that my house was built in 1906 and it has not had a fire sense

:26:01.:26:04.

therefore I do not need fire insurance for the House. The reality

:26:05.:26:08.

is that the point that is made by the debate that the honourable

:26:09.:26:17.

gentleman is asking is that we have it in place. I think that is what

:26:18.:26:24.

the UK government are found short and very wanting. The honourable

:26:25.:26:28.

gentleman quite correctly raises the issue of risk and the right

:26:29.:26:33.

honourable gentleman talked about the MCE eight looking at all

:26:34.:26:37.

potential risks and risk assessment from the MCA was that all factors,

:26:38.:26:42.

including collision risk and traffic volumes and whether, including very

:26:43.:26:49.

severe weather which can a fact that part of the world. -- affect. The

:26:50.:27:02.

NCAA will be carrying out further refinement of the risk assessment

:27:03.:27:04.

and light of stakeholder discussions. By all means. And

:27:05.:27:09.

listening very carefully and I am grateful for the honourable

:27:10.:27:12.

gentleman to be very considerate with this time. Identifying a risk

:27:13.:27:27.

of the Braer being reviewed, the vessel cannot provide that degree of

:27:28.:27:30.

protection and a timely manner in the Wesco. We need to retain in

:27:31.:27:37.

order to give security to our communities, we need the vessel

:27:38.:27:42.

there but we desperately need the vessel and the Wesco. What is the

:27:43.:27:47.

Minister going to say if we end up with an incident, have been for bed

:27:48.:27:53.

in the future, and we could've had a Braer to give us a degree of

:27:54.:27:56.

protection because that is what we are asking the government tonight. I

:27:57.:28:04.

thank the honourable gentleman. We made a point that the vessel we have

:28:05.:28:15.

where it is... This does not mean we made a final decision over whether

:28:16.:28:18.

it should continue or not, we have not made that final decision and we

:28:19.:28:23.

as the maritime and the Coast Guard agency to speak to all interested

:28:24.:28:27.

parties on two things. Firstly, this shared view of pollution coast of

:28:28.:28:36.

Scotland. I beg to knew that this House do now adjourn. Thank you very

:28:37.:28:43.

much indeed Madam Deputy Speaker. Firstly what is the shared view of

:28:44.:28:47.

pollution off the coast of Scotland and how attention to thousand 11.

:28:48.:28:51.

And secondly what alternative arrangements are available to have a

:28:52.:28:57.

tow capability but back to reduce the board the Mac the burden on the

:28:58.:29:09.

UK tax favour. -- payer. Demonstrating the priority the

:29:10.:29:12.

government gives to this matter. I was delighted to hear that the level

:29:13.:29:16.

of engagement from stakeholders and interested parties was both positive

:29:17.:29:20.

and constructive. And terms of refining the risk assessment, there

:29:21.:29:23.

are of course many factors to take into account, including the density

:29:24.:29:27.

of shipping, variety of cargoes, size of today's ships, the scenarios

:29:28.:29:32.

in which ships may get into difficulty and available tugs

:29:33.:29:36.

salvation solution. The officials gathered a great deal of additional

:29:37.:29:43.

information out of their understanding of the current risk.

:29:44.:29:45.

The overall risk picture is similar to how it looked in 2011, when the

:29:46.:29:49.

decision to retain one government-funded tub happy by all

:29:50.:30:00.

means. Madam Deputy Speaker, so many occasions I've heard this government

:30:01.:30:04.

talking about risk and it strikes me that they are being very badly

:30:05.:30:08.

briefed because they do not seem to understand what risk means. At its

:30:09.:30:12.

very simplest, there are two components that are being

:30:13.:30:15.

misunderstood here. What is the probability of event occur in a --

:30:16.:30:24.

occurring? It could be in once every 150 years, it could be next week,

:30:25.:30:28.

and the second point is that you have to take account of what is the

:30:29.:30:33.

nature of that negative outcome? What is the chance of the negative

:30:34.:30:38.

outcome? I doubt very many people have argued it and the nature of

:30:39.:30:41.

shipping today, the types of cargo that is being moved, such as waste,

:30:42.:30:47.

the catastrophic nature of that negative outcome is greater today

:30:48.:30:50.

than it would have been 20 or 30 years ago. If you could keep it a

:30:51.:30:56.

bit shorter, we would all be very great. He cut I reassure the

:30:57.:31:01.

honourable member that this government is acutely aware of the

:31:02.:31:06.

risk and potential that could be caused by the and the response

:31:07.:31:13.

correctly put in place. The meeting on the 10th of February also started

:31:14.:31:17.

to explore whether there might be alternative ways... And another

:31:18.:31:22.

meeting with stakeholders was scheduled on the 9th of March. We

:31:23.:31:27.

might find that a longer-term solution does not rest on one

:31:28.:31:30.

particular approach but the combination of option. And I want to

:31:31.:31:35.

give the MCA time and space to work through all reasonable options with

:31:36.:31:38.

stakeholders to find a longer-term solution. That considered thought

:31:39.:31:44.

and development of expert advice cannot be achieved by a current

:31:45.:31:49.

funding ends on the 31st of March. I therefore announced that I have

:31:50.:31:53.

instructed the MCA to make immediate arrangements to extend the provision

:31:54.:31:54.

of a government-funded Braer to of a government-funded Braer to

:31:55.:32:00.

mirror the current arrangement until the 30th of September this year. And

:32:01.:32:06.

I am grateful to my right honourable friend for making this case in such

:32:07.:32:11.

a positive way. The MCA and my department will find to understand

:32:12.:32:18.

across these budgets and this is not an additional expenditure. I am

:32:19.:32:22.

grateful to the Minister and I think he is to be congratulated on this

:32:23.:32:26.

announcement because it is in fact clearly not the end of the story but

:32:27.:32:30.

it is a significant act of good faith and they very much thank him

:32:31.:32:33.

for taking this step this evening. Will he take the message from this

:32:34.:32:37.

house that came from that stakeholder engagement on the 10th

:32:38.:32:41.

of February and to see that this work has really got to be done again

:32:42.:32:46.

and it has to be done properly. The standard and the content of that

:32:47.:32:50.

risk assessment is not good enough, and he is now given us the time,

:32:51.:32:54.

will that time you used properly to do the work properly? Certainly I

:32:55.:33:00.

are ready made the point that the level of risk has not changed

:33:01.:33:03.

substantially since previous assessments have been made but I do

:33:04.:33:07.

think we need to explore other ways in which that risk may be addressed

:33:08.:33:10.

and the point was made about the availability of tugs because of the

:33:11.:33:15.

demise of the North Sea oil industry and other areas where we may be able

:33:16.:33:18.

to come up with something were cost effective. Thank you very much and I

:33:19.:33:23.

am grateful to the Minister for giving way. We welcome the

:33:24.:33:28.

announcement that the government has made this evening, that was the

:33:29.:33:30.

right thing to do. I would say to the Minister to explain to this

:33:31.:33:37.

situation as to what happened. Braer cannot make it in a reasonable

:33:38.:33:42.

amount of time. And light of the decision he has made this evening,

:33:43.:33:46.

and in light of risk assessment that much take place, will you revisit

:33:47.:33:50.

the need and desire for a second vessel to cover the West Coast based

:33:51.:33:58.

on the realistic understanding of risk as been outlined by myself and

:33:59.:34:04.

others because we cannot except that our communities should be left at

:34:05.:34:09.

risk. This is a small price to pay. We need that insurance policies.

:34:10.:34:14.

Please, I am grateful that the vessel has been kept on for the next

:34:15.:34:18.

six months, but let's make sure that we get a solution that protects all

:34:19.:34:22.

of our communities and that means the re-establishment of a two vessel

:34:23.:34:26.

solution to the north and West of Scotland. I certainly hear what he

:34:27.:34:30.

is saying and indeed the provision of the ETV and the times to get to

:34:31.:34:38.

locations is something we need to address. But I urge all those who

:34:39.:34:42.

have an interest to seize the opportunity that this extra time

:34:43.:34:47.

brings with the MCA to make a longer-term strategy to meet this

:34:48.:34:51.

need. I hope Honorable members in this house will give encouragement

:34:52.:34:57.

to that. As response to questions, this government recognises the

:34:58.:35:01.

importance of ensuring shipping activities off the coast of Scotland

:35:02.:35:02.

remain safe. I am grateful to the remain safe. I am grateful to the

:35:03.:35:09.

government's U-turn even though it is for only six months. We

:35:10.:35:15.

concentrated a lot here on the back of pollution. But only a month ago,

:35:16.:35:21.

two months ago, in fact, and Panama a cruise ship ran aground on the

:35:22.:35:28.

there are a lot of lives and peril there are a lot of lives and peril

:35:29.:35:33.

in that situation. Luckily the climate was better but if it happens

:35:34.:35:37.

on the West Coast of Scotland, it has increased traffic, weather the

:35:38.:35:42.

tug boats were the security to make sure that that would not turn into

:35:43.:35:51.

human catastrophe. We are... While the government is making the U-turn,

:35:52.:35:56.

I hope they look further south as well. I have already made it very

:35:57.:36:01.

clear that the two major consideration in terms of the marine

:36:02.:36:04.

environment, particularly from vessels carrying well, but also from

:36:05.:36:10.

the potential loss of life from vessels which cannot get assistance

:36:11.:36:14.

at a timely way. I will make a final decision over whether it is right

:36:15.:36:20.

for the UK tax player to continue in light of the MCA's advice by the end

:36:21.:36:25.

of September. I look forward to colleagues giving evidence and their

:36:26.:36:29.

views in terms of that consideration. I will of course be

:36:30.:36:33.

consulting Scottish ministers on those options before a final

:36:34.:36:37.

decision is made. As I have said previously I am happy to meet with

:36:38.:36:41.

idling councils and I look forward to travelling north now that it is

:36:42.:36:47.

getting more daylight but there to visit some of these locations to

:36:48.:36:53.

hear first-hand from people on the ground of their concern. The

:36:54.:36:57.

question is that this House do now adjourn. As many of that opinion say

:36:58.:37:02.

I've. The eyes have it. Order, order!

:37:03.:37:11.

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