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Hello and welcome to BBC Parliament live coverage of the House of | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
Commons. At half past three David Cameron will make a statement to MPs | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
on the deal reached with European Union leaders on reforming the terms | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
of the UK's membership of the EU. That agreement pave the way for the | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
out referendum on the 23rd of June. Mr Cameron announced the date on | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
Saturday when he returned from Brussels. The Prime Minister will | :01:50. | :01:59. | |
make the case for the EU UK to Burbank. Such is the justice | :02:00. | :02:08. | |
secretary and the work and pensions Secretary. The Prime Minister | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
statement on the EU will be repeated and debated in the House of Lords as | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
well. Member to join me for a round-up of the days debate about | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
the EU in both houses of parliament at 11 o'clock this evening. We start | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
this question to the home Secretary May. | :02:24. | :02:45. | |
Order! Order! Questions to the Secretary of State for the Home | :02:46. | :02:55. | |
Department. Question one Mr Speaker. Thank you, the investigator and | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
Powers bill has been in close consultation with the industry. The | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
cost of the public for implement the provisions will continue to be | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
refined as we hope more detailed vote come. They can meet the costs | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
themselves. Full cost recovery will reply to operational cost including | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
those associated with new obligations under the bill. Thank | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
you Mr Speaker, the science and technology committee warned that the | :03:24. | :03:25. | |
bill of risk undermining the start we performing tech sector. Will the | :03:26. | :03:35. | |
Secretary of State and sure as that the UK businesses will not be placed | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
at a commercial disadvantage to overseas competitors? I can assure | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
the gentleman that. As I said and my answer to his initial question, we | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
will be ensuring that the full cost recovery replies to operational cost | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
for any companies who have, except for notices issued to them. What is | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
clear is that that is what we have done as the government in the past, | :04:03. | :04:04. | |
that is the privileged governments have done and we will continue its. | :04:05. | :04:11. | |
Was the home secretary look carefully at the recommendations of | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
the joint committee in regards to but recognition of the Internet. We | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
were clear that greater clarity is needed on deafness in order to be | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
able to allow the private sector to fully cost there for proposals. I | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
think the right honourable gentleman, those honourable members | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
and any other place to set on that committee and who did an excellent | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
job in producing their reports, a very well thought through and | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
careful report. We will look very carefully at the issue. We are | :04:43. | :04:51. | |
looking awfully on all committees. We will bring forward a revised bill | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
proposals in due course. On the specific issue of private | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
businesses, could be home secretary outlines what recent discussions she | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
or her ministers have had with the devolved ministrations about that | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
particular aspect? Discussions with devolved ministrations have been | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
going on throughout the preparation of the initial draft bill, and | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
indeed have continued and will continue. Also, but will also | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
continue its discussions between ministers and officials and the | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
companies and private room at private businesses themselves. | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
Question number two Mr Speaker. With the mission was a speaker I will | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
answer questions two and ten on the order paper together. The minimum | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
income threshold of ?18,600 for sponsoring a partner under the | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
family immigration roles, and so is that couples wishing to establish | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
the family life in the UK do not place burdens on the taxpayer and | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
hub motor integration. It is being considered by the courts and upheld | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
by the court of appeals. The Low the welfare of immigrants has said that | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
these rules discriminately affecting women. 25% get less than 18,600 | :06:06. | :06:13. | |
compared to 75% of men. This gives young people it is evident as well. | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
What actual the home Secretary take to reduce these on sale rules? I | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
would say that the threshold was set as advice of the migration advisory | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
committee to look very carefully on the levels of income and terms of | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
not being a bargain on the taxpayer. The gross median and Scotland in | :06:33. | :06:41. | |
2014 racks at 21,725 higher than the threshold. This of legal challenge | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
has been raised by the course of Appeal. The threshold was upheld. | :06:44. | :06:52. | |
Thinking you Mr Speaker, the Secretary of State will see a story | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
reported by the BBC this morning where she fled the area and gave | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
birth to her son in the UK. Her husband a Syrian national is unable | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
to join the meeting because they cannot afford the fees of these. Can | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
Secretary of State tell us with his British nationals should go to enter | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
her family life. Her husband home country of Syria? There are various | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
different routes that could be available. We have the family | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
reunion and route that can apply and circumstances. I'm not familiar with | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
all the us is that he highlights. Equally, the government is in | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
respect for uncertainties for the protection of the children. This is | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
considered by the court and upheld. That gave the point made so | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
eloquently by my Honorable friend about not being a burden on the | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
taxpayer. To what extent do we take into account, charges made by other | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
countries, two British nationals hoping to emigrate to those | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
countries? I say, my honourable friend makes a point on different | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
immigration systems and different parts of the world. Obviously we | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
have taken advice on the migration advisory committee looking at cost | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
and look at those pardons to see that someone does not place a burden | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
on the UK taxpayer. But his odyssey for other countries to assess what | :08:11. | :08:18. | |
is appropriate and their own system. The financial threshold family visas | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
is causing particular distress to one of my constituents who cannot | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
work the hours required because she is a carer for her vulnerable child. | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
This means she is living without her husband and the Taliban without his | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
father. Does the Minister acknowledged that he is at risk of | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
creating a generation of children whose only contact with one of their | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
parents will be via Skype? Now, I don't except the point the Honorable | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
Lady makes. These issues of the welfare of the child are absolutely | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
part of the consideration that the takes, this was a matter that was | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
considered by the courts of the pale. And firmly upheld. I would say | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
to the Honorable lady that when this issue of the -- all being said in | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
November 2011, the migration advisory committee gave a lower | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
threshold of 18,600 but equally advise the national could have been | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
set at 25,000 700. The Government reflected in those circumstances and | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
set it to level as it has done. That little has been upheld by the court. | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
The Minister has mentioned the court of appeal but the matter is not | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
entirely set from a legal point of view because this week the Supreme | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
Court will hold the cases of two but is nationals who cannot meet these | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
tough financial rules to allow their not EU spouses to come and live with | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
them. The Honorable member for Hampstead and Coburn has mentioned | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
that according to the children's Commissioner for England there are | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
15,000 British children growing up via Skype. How can the Minister | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
justified the stress and anxiety caused by these children -- to these | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
children for the other flexible and unjust rule. I don't accept the | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
characterisation that the honourable lady has proven to. I does recognise | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
the number that she has proffered. I do say, that it is about good | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
immigration, it is in relation to language in terms of mapping a | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
bargain to the taxpayer but equally promoting integration. We believe | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
the policy is ineffective in doing that. ... Last year the conservative | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
call on the government to change these rules. Melting, the | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
significant contribution made by millions of Brooke Britons living | :10:44. | :10:51. | |
as the Minister of Rome as the opposition, will he at least listen | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
to his own party and get rid of these rules was to scrimmage against | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
hard-working families? I say again to the honourable lady that we do | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
not believe that the rules are discriminatory, and the way that she | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
is a just and characterises, the system is in place to ensure a good | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
integration and is absurd that people are not a burden on the | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
taxpayer. I thought that was something she would recognise as | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
being a positive aspect of the policy to make sure that people can | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
contribute and settle. The rules have been set, and upheld by the | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
court and look at the two of underline those key things. With | :11:30. | :11:36. | |
permission I will answer questions three and 16 on the order paper | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
together. Border force carries out 100% of the tax. They deliver an | :11:44. | :11:51. | |
effective and intelligent responses for a range of security threats. | :11:52. | :11:59. | |
They used equipment and a range of search techniques. I think the home | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
secretary for that answer but last of the birth of eminent fives were | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
found in a container in my constituency, that came just three | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
weeks after 20 immigrants were found of wear. Given that my local border | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
forces are facing cuts, how can the secretary reassure me that these | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
cuts are not damaging the safety and security? The approach that we are | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
taking to these matters comes across in a number of ways. First of all, | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
in relation to water forth, we are looking to edge does this | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
technology, but also to an Benedike Howedes make sure they can operate | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
successfully. It will be a much more intelligent lead approach. We can | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
target what they need to be in accordance with the intelligence, | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
and also this government has enhanced our ability to deal with | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
organised crime. This is an issue that the national crime agency set | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
up by the last Coalition government is taking very seriously and is | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
acting on. Thank you, I have ten electronic passports case and my | :13:02. | :13:09. | |
efficiency at the airport of my department is unable to tell me how | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
many people travelled through. And how often they malfunction and how | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
many were Texans they are. Does the home Secretary agree with me that | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
the warning -- as identified by the office, this is one of them and it | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
should be looked into? What I say is that I think that the increased | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
number of each day for checking passports that we have is a good | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
move. It's and hat security at our border. Thank you Mr Speaker, I have | :13:40. | :13:48. | |
been trying to figure out how many people arrive at UK airports without | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
valid travel documents. I'm very surprised that nobody seems to be | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
able to give me an answer to this. Within minutes be able to give me an | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
answer and if not hesitate to ask them to find out this important | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
matter? I can tell my honourable friend that 18,000 individuals were | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
refused at entry at the border in 2014 equity those who were | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
travelling on an valid documentation. When somebody comes | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
the UK border they are subjected to a range of tax we have offices at | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
the border who trained and are able to detect forged documents and steps | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
are being taken to intercept those individuals who don't have the | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
correct documents of of a bit over at the border. And I congratulate | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
the home Secretary are the words as he sat on the value of EU membership | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
in terms of protecting the safety and security of this country. Can I | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
ask her, even though that is the case and I agree with her could we | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
have more specific focus on the quieter port, the quieter airports | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
were the smuggling gangs know it is quieter? I indicated in my response | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
earlier to one of his honourable friend, that the way border forces | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
of prejudice as in a much intelligent lead basis, so that they | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
can be flexible in relation to the staff that employed in different | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
ports, professing recognising, that we don't eat as a focus on one or 24 | :15:14. | :15:21. | |
22 focus on a range of ports. -- focus on one or two ports. We need | :15:22. | :15:30. | |
to rely on strong EU coordinated approach to security including at | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
our borders and our ports. The Secretary of State and I know road | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
that we rely on EU criminal justice and security measures. And those | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
circumstances, I assume that the home office carried out a risk | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
assessment on the impact of UK withdraw and the EU on security at | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
ports. Recommended of the public who have not yet decided how to vote in | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
the referendum access the conclusions? I have dissected say to | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
the honourable gentleman, I'm not sure that his parliamentary language | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
for me to repeat Mr Speaker. He can rest assured that argument there | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
relations of these matters will be fully set out for people over the | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
coming months. One of the arguments I put, he will have no because he | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
was involved in this and a different capacity before he came into this | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
chamber. It was around issues like the operation of various sizes and | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
home affairs meshes is what we set out very clearly as the government | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
by without the benefit was in being part of those measures. Tony Smith | :16:32. | :16:39. | |
the interim head of the UK border for from 20 1213 said that a vote to | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
leave the EU would pose a lot of issues for the border force who is | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
already under huge pressure. In particular he highlighted the fact | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
that the border for staff would have to carry out more attacks on EU | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
citizens. Can the Secretary of State confirm that the border for school | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
and the fact to face more cuts year on year for the foreseeable future? | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
I'm happy to say that anybody who comes to the UK border, anybody | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
receives a stringent checks at the UK border, we are doing that now on | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
a much more intelligent lead basis, in terms of looking at individuals | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
who may be of concern, and yes he is right that we have interactions with | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
other member states and the European Union to the use of things like a | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
system to identify people who are of concern who are coming across the | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
border. Border forth and other operations are not about people, the | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
about goods and bridges are good and illegal goods being brought into the | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
UK. That is where the intelligence led approach can be helpful in | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
identifying when the areas of concern and action being taken | :17:50. | :17:58. | |
appropriate of properly. But commission on what action questions | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
four and 14 on the order paper. Crime commissioners, sorry for and | :18:03. | :18:10. | |
13. Crime commissioners are providing a comfortable position and | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
making a real difference to policing locally. There has been a reduction | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
in crime and more than a quarter sensor and seduction. -- production. | :18:19. | :18:38. | |
There is already good process of scrutiny that is available through | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
the piece and crime panels, for looking at any potential crime that | :18:45. | :18:54. | |
police may have. That process it is enshrined and is being taken. What I | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
do is when any area is looking at the potential for roles, for such as | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
we have in the greater Manchester area in relation to peace and crime | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
commissioner with the productive mayor of that area. There is full | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
consideration of all the aspects of the issue to ensure that going ahead | :19:18. | :19:24. | |
they can give it to do so properly without conflict of interest as | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
ensuring that the best services delivered. Thank you Mr Speaker, my | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
local police force received a positive inspection report from the | :19:36. | :19:37. | |
home inspector. With my right honourable friend join me and please | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
do the work of the constable at the conservative police and crime | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
commissioner and their efforts to fight crime and specifically the | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
chief constables national work on the prevent programme. I'm very | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
happy to exit and congratulations I'm sure everybody across his house | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
to the excellent work that is being done by the chief constable and the | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
peace and crime commissioner. They have done an job and the crime | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
commissioner will be stepping down. But I would like to thank them for | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
the work that he has done over his first term at peace and crime | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
commissioner. The main problem that the South Yorkshire police and crime | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
commissioner faces is the shortfall in his budget was Roosevelt and too | :20:25. | :20:35. | |
much 250 police jobs being lost. It makes rational planning difficult. | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
With the home Secretary agreed that the PCs can do the job better if | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
they had the budget set at the remainder of the Parliament of what | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
will they do about it? The pitcher he has had out is not the one that I | :20:48. | :20:58. | |
recognise. We have protected, police budgets, across the period of the | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
Comprehensive Spending Review. I would have thought that he would | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
have welcome that given that his front this one of the cut by 10%. A | :21:06. | :21:16. | |
recent reports by the British retail consultant found that these crimes | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
have gone up by 25%. What action was the home Secretary take to and a | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
vote for commissioners to take act against any level of violence | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
against retail staff. What action can be take to reduce this? First of | :21:33. | :21:40. | |
all, I think we are all concerned about Violet Maxine taken place. It | :21:41. | :21:50. | |
is a matter of real concern. The operational response to such crimes | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
being committed and the business of such crimes as a matter for the | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
chief Constable of the particular for the area to look into. I know | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
there are a number of retail chain to ever working very closely. To try | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
to ensure that they are able to provide added support and security | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
for the staff. Although I have had my differences that time with the | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
pleasing crime commissioner and the concert, when my right honourable | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
friend agree with me that his record along with the biggest Achilles, and | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
reducing crime is exemplary and is an example to all? I would again | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
congratulate and walk him see what that is being done in the concert | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
and relation to the reduction of crime by the chief Constable and the | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
pleasing crime commissioner. It is not the only area where we have been | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
able to see crime solving but I think that the following McNish or | :22:41. | :22:49. | |
has been significant. -- Lancashire. Can I ask if she has any statement | :22:50. | :22:58. | |
from the North have a sure crime commissioner from his panel? It is | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
expected that the full transfer funding from the urban areas to more | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
rural areas and that the city will benefit. As developing government | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
policy or is it just letting the cat of the bag? I would have tossed the | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
ombudsman would be aware, we have Derek Lilley said that the proposed | :23:20. | :23:30. | |
changes that we were... We're trying to develop a formula that is | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
affected of the needs. I also sent to the ombudsman he looks across the | :23:35. | :23:48. | |
at police forces across the area he will see that the funding formula | :23:49. | :23:56. | |
needs to change. Question five Mr Speaker. Mr Mike Penning, we ask | :23:57. | :24:05. | |
permission to answer questions on the order paper. Pleasing crime | :24:06. | :24:18. | |
commissioners will have a duty to collaborate on the Bill before this | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
house becomes a law. Hampshire fire service and handsets of the services | :24:25. | :24:32. | |
share a building resulting and financial sufficiency. Will he | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
congratulated me and taking a lead and collaborative working. I was | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
there recently and saw for myself deeply working is being done between | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
the emergency services. The collaboration with the chief and the | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
chief Constable as of the PCC to, they are doing excellent work. The | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
map of my Honorable friend agree that it is important that the new | :25:02. | :25:03. | |
generation of pleasing crime commissioners who have been elected, | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
or will be elected in a couple months' time get behind this | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
important reform. Will he join me in welcoming the commitment of the | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
excellent PCC candidates and his strong desire to implement these | :25:19. | :25:30. | |
subtler forms? We need to make sure that we spending taxpayer money | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
efficiently and well and collaboration and that is the best | :25:34. | :25:45. | |
way for that. She is really a shy or tiring so. The fire and rescue | :25:46. | :25:55. | |
services collaborating very well all over the country, particularly with | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
the ambulance trusts. Will you tell us why he sees necessary under the | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
new bill, that the police and crime commissioners would actually take | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
control of the fire services, surely the two organizations are so | :26:09. | :26:15. | |
different in so many ways. You can have the collaboration without the | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
PCC running our fire services. I think is of the matter, someone who | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
is duly able to run that like a PCC should be on any committee. I'm sure | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
we would want an efficient emergency service, before I service working | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
closely with the police is the way we would like to do that. | :26:38. | :26:47. | |
Collaboration with the services will be the communication network. How | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
much will they cause, and though one day be in place? -- and when will | :26:52. | :27:01. | |
they be in place. There are bits out there and the moment, it will be | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
confidential at the moment. What we do know is that the air racism that | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
we have had needs replacing, it is very expensive and this will be | :27:10. | :27:17. | |
cheaper. The pleasing crime commissioner will put forward a | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
business case to take over the governments of Hampshire for fire | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
rescue services. My honourable friend pointed out what they already | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
doing, we already have a trading arm which pays for the governments of | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
the fire and rescue Authority. What this is the police and fire | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
commission approved for that would allow him to run the service? If the | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
local community wants to have a more efficient service which could be the | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
case, and accept that they are particularly good. When I was in | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
Hampshire there were people asking me for more collaboration, more work | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
to be done to particularly from the front lines which is the most | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
important the plaintiff. Given the cuts and funding to the police | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
service, and the fire and rescue services already budgeted for by | :28:07. | :28:13. | |
this government, can the Minister guarantee that placing fire and left | :28:14. | :28:16. | |
the services under PCC control will not lead to further cut in the | :28:17. | :28:25. | |
numbers of front line firefighters? This is bigger, thank goodness the | :28:26. | :28:27. | |
chances of not listen to labor front bench to relive the funding for the | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
please worked until 2020 because office they of a 10% cut. What we | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
must make sure, what we must make sure is that we have an efficient | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
service and that will be going for. Thank you Mr Speaker. Tackling crime | :28:43. | :28:56. | |
is a priority for government. Show that knife crime is 14% lower than | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
it was in June 2010, we recognise that there is more to do and new | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
actions to tackle knife crime will be set out in the modern crime | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
prevention strategy. I think my honourable friend for the first bite | :29:11. | :29:19. | |
the. -- knife what action is her department taken to Brook -- tackle | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
knife crime. Can I think my honourable friend for his question, | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
and congratulate him on the new arrival, new baby who I believe was | :29:30. | :29:37. | |
very involved in the delivery. I am also aware of the concerns about | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
knife crimes and Essex, and I recently met with my right | :29:42. | :29:43. | |
honourable friend and I have been more than happy to meet with him to | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
discuss precisely this issue. The taking if they just steps, and early | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
this month be supported 30 police forces, including Essex. They | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
undertook coordinated action against knife crime. Thank you Mr Speaker. | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
Knife crime, bike other crime is best dealt with preemptively. In | :30:01. | :30:09. | |
Sussex crime has gone up 8%, and yet today the government inspector said | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
that routinely front-line, neighbourhood, and local police and | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
being taken away. Kenny Minister please be looked at the thousand | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
front-line police officers and staff that are being taken away and for | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
the impact neighbourhood policing? Mr Speaker, can I start when it's a | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
-- comes to Sussex. Congratulating the police commissioner. At that | :30:36. | :30:37. | |
hair, and we discussed to take she's I think he should remember the boat | :30:38. | :30:51. | |
that he made in this house to cut police resources by 10%, something | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
that decided the House disagreed with. Thank you Mr Speaker. Recently | :30:56. | :31:07. | |
and Darby a young man lost his life. Lester, knife years rose across the | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
UK. Can I ask my right honourable friend what steps the department are | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
taking to tackle the scourge of individuals from carrying knives? My | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
honourable friend is right. We do need to educate and show them people | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
that caring matters is not school, it's not something that they should | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
be doing. It's a big that they should understand is dangerous and | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
can result in loss of life. That is why in the last parliament we | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
legislated so that if someone is caught with a knife twice they have | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
a mandatory prison sentence, and we are doing more work. I would be more | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
than happy to work with her and discuss the specific issues and | :31:47. | :31:54. | |
Darby which I do know have... Have the Minister considered amnesty to | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
invite people to hand in weapons, whether it be knives or other | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
weapons, it was very successful in the West Midlands. Mr Speaker, that | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
is a matter for chief constables to determine. I said that we worked | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
with 13 forces including within that work, world knife amnesties. | :32:16. | :32:25. | |
Question number seven. Discussions with | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
to ensure that the public are aware and protected from fraud. It is the | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
mission to counter the wicked work of fraudsters. While I actually | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
understand the difficulties and effectively policing the Internet, | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
financial scams judging by my own parliamentary accounts, seem to be | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
out of control. The most older people are being targeted. When my | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
right honourable friend have another look at this issues and see if there | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
is a way that we can bring these criminals to account? It's because | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
we have taken a fresh look at this. Just as my honourable friend | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
recommends that we have launched the joint task force, we are continuing | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
to support the supply of the streetwise campaign which makes | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
people more aware and guarded about fraud, but we have invested 90 | :33:22. | :33:27. | |
million, and one point billion and two security over the next years. We | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
take this seriously. In the cyber age, I am a cyber minister up to the | :33:34. | :33:41. | |
minute, up to the mark, and up to the job. LAUGHTER We would expect no | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
less of the right honourable gentleman. Can I ask the cyber | :33:47. | :33:54. | |
minister, as it seems to be -- since he is up to the mark, about the | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
activities of a website which was discovered recently | :33:58. | :34:08. | |
selling the stolen bank details of 100,000 British citizens? Since he | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
is an up to the minute cyber minister, how is it possible for | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
this website to carry on for six months before it was closed down? | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
How much of the 1.9 billion that he is targeting on cyber crime will be | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
used to proactively close downsides of this kind? The honourable | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
gentleman knows because his committee has drawn attention to did | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
in the past, that it is critically important that the government works | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
with all other agencies including banks and private sector | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
organizations, any task force has permission to do that. It is summed | :34:46. | :34:52. | |
up by this. They have publicly signed up to commit their full | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
support to work in partnership to protect the public from being | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
victims of fraud, scams, and maximise opportunities to prevent | :35:02. | :35:08. | |
fraudster from operating in the way that he recommended. Mr Speaker, the | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
cyber minister will know that you are more likely to be marked online | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
than in the street. -- mocked. Will the home secretary confirmed that | :35:17. | :35:24. | |
after fighters of her government saying cut crime,. The tooth will be | :35:25. | :35:33. | |
told that far from falling, crying is changing. Our country now faces | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
crime doubling when this government continues to cut the number of | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
police officer. The honourable gentleman will be disappointed to | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
know that I am going to say that he is right. I remind him that we are | :35:47. | :35:55. | |
the government that made the decision to publish the statistics, | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
and to designate cyber crime and the way that we have. Until we | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
appreciate the scale of the problem we won't develop the solutions | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
necessary to deal with that. I would also say to him, as he will know, | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
that we are using some of that extra resources to set up the national | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
cyber centre to co-ordinate work in this area. Thank you Mr Speaker. The | :36:16. | :36:30. | |
government has provided funding. It is interesting work that is going | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
forward. Naturally, we will help encourage PC sees in the country to | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
reduce crime, support victims, and closely engorged Democrats engage. | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
The American comedian Eddie Cantor said that those currently on the | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
most wanted list have been the most wanted as children, they would no | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
longer be on the most wanted list. In that context, with the Minister | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
welcomed the work that his department is doing with the early | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
intervention foundation in creating police leaders academies on early | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
intervention. Will he ensure that funding is available so that every | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
police Commissioner a elected this year can attend courses this year. | :37:13. | :37:23. | |
Can I praise the work of the early intervention foundation and the work | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
that they're doing is important. Other agencies do important work, | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
but we know about if we can catch them young to me compared to them | :37:31. | :37:38. | |
from becoming criminals. Following the government's troubled families | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
programme, it can be any doubt that early intervention works. It | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
produces petty crime, encourages school attendance, gets people into | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
jobs. What became clear and why this is welcome with the Minister is | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
saying, without the active participation of the police, those | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
programmes are so ineffectual. I hope that we will ensure that every | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
chief constable in Commissioner will regard this in hype a wordy. I am | :38:07. | :38:14. | |
sure that everyone has heard with my right honourable friend has said. | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
That is why we put the money into the foundation, that is why we are | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
doing the review at the moment into the police early intervention | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
academy so that we can prove -- improve the outcomes. Humberside | :38:27. | :38:36. | |
police is 500 fewer officers than five years ago, and of course across | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
North Lincolnshire... Isn't it the case that the reality for the police | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
on the ground is that early intervention is not a priority and | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
it is being pushed onto ill resourced local authorities. Mr | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
Speaker, I am sure that... Every single time we hear from the Labour | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
Party they want more money and yet their front bench want to cut the | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
funding to the police force. That is what the reality is, not what is | :39:09. | :39:20. | |
actually going on. Number 11 Mr Speaker. Bear with me Mr Speaker. Mr | :39:21. | :39:33. | |
Speaker, as I wrote earlier there are four police forces currently | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
using track my crime. There are more coming on force, and 22 forces will | :39:40. | :39:49. | |
have it available to them. I think the Minister for that answer. How | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
successful has tracked my crime bend and supporting victims of crime and | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
keeping them up to date and supporting them in the process of | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
these matters being back investigated? When I broke this | :40:01. | :40:07. | |
earlier, the tooth -- wrote. Victims have the confidence to | :40:08. | :40:19. | |
actually believe in their justice system. Track my Crime will help | :40:20. | :40:27. | |
that. The evidence gathering stage of the review has been done. | :40:28. | :40:40. | |
18,000 police officers have been cut in the last five years. Is it really | :40:41. | :40:47. | |
sensible to waste scarce police resources and enforcing a ban on | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
poppers and criminalizing users other relatively harmless substance. | :40:54. | :41:01. | |
I hope that the honourable gentleman will welcome the psychoactive | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
substances act, because that blanket ban on the effect of these | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
substances that we do not know what they do to young people and that | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
they caused deaths is incredibly important. When it comes to poppers | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
we have a commitment to reviewing the benefits of poppers against the | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
harms to see whether they should be included. Question number 14 Mr | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
Speaker. Thank you Mr Speaker. The modern slavery act, it is too early | :41:29. | :41:38. | |
to make it effective -- make effectiveness of this act. Some | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
businesses are already published a statement setting out what steps | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
they've taken to prevent moderates lately in they're gloating surprise | :41:50. | :41:57. | |
James. Am grateful for that reply. He writes that the role that the | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
private sector can play in the fight against slavery should not be | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
underestimated. What assessment has she made so far of the effectiveness | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
of the transparency and supply chain's provision in the act for | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
companies of turnovers with ?36 million or more. He is right. It is | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
not about law enforcement and government taking action, it is | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
about working with the private sector and with businesses. I am | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
pleased that although the first set of declarations and relation to | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
supply chains is only from the 31st of March, we have seen a number of | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
companies going forward and making this declaration. I will in a month | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
or so hold an event with companies to share good practice so that we | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
can make sure that we are getting the best event, ending consumers can | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
make their decision. Despite some of the good measures in the act, the | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
fact is that child trafficking is still taking place across the | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
European Union. It is taken within the scandal that is the migration | :43:00. | :43:07. | |
crisis. What work is the home Secretary doing with her colleagues | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
across the European Union to make sure that this issue is adequately | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
tackled across all 28 Member States? First of all, I am encouraging other | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
member state to take the steps that we are taking in terms of | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
interesting new legislation adjective at the modern slavery act. | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
Secondly, we are working with organised immigration crime -- | :43:30. | :43:29. | |
immigration crime. Quack I think that this is of enormous | :43:30. | :43:47. | |
benefit because he is an expert in this area. Further to the question, | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
could my right honourable friend set out in more detail the importance of | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
the transparency and supply chains in the modern slavery act, and | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
perhaps how it will be monitored in the future? Not to too much detail, | :44:02. | :44:10. | |
given the time. I think that it has to import and fax. It makes | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
companies think about the issues of the supply chains and whether there | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
is slavery. Secondly, there are declarations as to what or no action | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
they have taken, will be available to consumers, and they can make sure | :44:23. | :44:29. | |
-- make choices. We are looking at a number of options for ensuring that | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
that information is publicly available in one place. May I make | :44:33. | :44:40. | |
the right honourable lady aware about doing excellent work in my | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
constituency. I am shocked to hear the extent of modern slavery in this | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
country. Does she think that people are sufficiently aware and what can | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
she do to highlight that? Can I say to the honourable gentlemen we are | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
are aware of the work of this organisation does. He is right. Most | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
people in this country are shocked to know that shaped An slavery takes | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
place, and would be more shocked to see the degree and extent of it. It | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
is up to everyone in this house to make sure that everyone knows that | :45:16. | :45:17. | |
they do. The government is and challenge Daesh's mitigation. I | :45:18. | :45:38. | |
think the Minister for that response. Daesh is committing | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
atrocities against others who do not agree with them with their way of | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
life. What is the government doing to communicate those viscosities | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
across the UK to prevent the spread of extreme it -- extremism across | :45:53. | :46:00. | |
the UK. We have to challenge those extreme opinions. The UK's | :46:01. | :46:11. | |
government highlights hyperbole is of Daesh. We work with those that I | :46:12. | :46:19. | |
described a minute ago, 130 based community projects were delivered in | :46:20. | :46:28. | |
2015, reaching 20 5000 people. That's 20 5000. I am glad that in | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
this most solemn of matter and the honourable gentleman has been able | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
to provide us with the political florist. Question number one served. | :46:37. | :46:44. | |
Last week I was in Washington I think ministerial. A set that is | :46:45. | :46:57. | |
really. 2014, Daesh directed, inspired, or enabled attacks in | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
other countries worldwide. In 2015 there are almost 60 attacks, as well | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
as well is to budget the tax tear it up by Daesh branches, including | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
those in Libya and Egypt. This is a fight that cannot be won by five -- | :47:10. | :47:16. | |
fighting in isolation. We should be more open and sharing intelligence, | :47:17. | :47:27. | |
and our expertise. We must organise our own efforts effectively to | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
support vulnerable state and improve their ability to respond to the | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
threat from terrorism. We made commitments to strengthen | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
information sharing, enhanced efforts and discourage social media. | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
This is the child's of our generation, and one that we will win | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
by working together. Thank you Mr Speaker. I think my right honourable | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
friend for her answer. But she acted with me that the creation of this | :47:54. | :48:00. | |
was the step in the right direction, and this will change radically the | :48:01. | :48:03. | |
future and take on more responsibilities? I agree with my | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
honourable friend. It was important to create that directly elected | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
individual, accountable to the public a little cruising. The call | :48:13. | :48:15. | |
from police and crime commission is because you want to see that role of | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
all. My right honourable friend are already in discussions about how | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
this will might revolve and as to the criminal justice system stop | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
can recommend the home Secretary on her announcement this began, and on | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
her decision to put the national interest before self-interest. | :48:36. | :48:41. | |
Unlike others. When she began at some secretary she took a | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
Eurosceptic stance, opting out of dozens of EU measures. She has since | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
opted back into many, most recently on the sharing of fingerprinting and | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
DNA. Is it fair to say that the realities of office has shown her | :48:56. | :49:00. | |
the value of EU cooperation in tackling crime and terrorism, and | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
changed her mind on print's membership of the EU? I have always | :49:05. | :49:10. | |
been very clear about the value of cooperation when it is in the | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
British national interest. That is what of the 35 measures that we have | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
decided to propose it this house should opt back into, and relation | :49:19. | :49:25. | |
to critical 36, it was precisely because we believed it was of a | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
national interest. I think I will take that as a yes Mr Speaker. | :49:29. | :49:35. | |
Yesterday the Prime Minister was explicitly clear that our membership | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
in the EU helps Britain fight terrorism. But, within minutes he | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
was directly contradicted by one of his own cabinet members who claims | :49:45. | :49:51. | |
that the each -- UK's EU membership made a terrorist attack are likely. | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
Coming from an array senior members of the Cabinet, it is downright | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
irresponsible. Will the home Secretary take this opportunity to | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
reaffirm Government policy on this crucial issue and condemn this | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
baseless scaremongering. Hear, hear! The government's issue is clear. I | :50:15. | :50:23. | |
am clear that there are more areas in which cooperation with other | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
Member States in the European Union is in our benefit in terms of the | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
national security of this country and dealing with criminal matters. | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
As I indicated earlier, and response to questions, we do take security at | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
our borders seriously and that is why we have the checks that we do. | :50:40. | :50:46. | |
The government has agreed to work when -- work and create new | :50:47. | :50:52. | |
initiatives. Can the Minister confirm in the initiative will begin | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
and which organizations the government will work with to help | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
identify those children? Can I thank my honourable friend for her | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
question. We are working with the NHC are in relation to development | :51:05. | :51:11. | |
of a new initiative. Discussions are ongoing with the, we have had round | :51:12. | :51:22. | |
table discussions. You will come back when our consideration has | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
concluded. Thank you Mr Speaker. Following on in the vein of | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
trafficking, I would like to ask the question of a constituent of I Blake | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
cannot name because of her vulnerability. She was human traffic | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
from Nigeria to the UK, held in domestic slavery in London, and | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
escaped over ten years ago to my constituency. She now has a family | :51:44. | :51:46. | |
and a husband. Her children were born in Scotland, but you cannot get | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
help. Her the home office has not been helpful. Can the Minister meet | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
with me and see what can be done to help his family settled in Scotland? | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
Can I say to the honourable lady that she raises what appeared to be | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
a serious individual case. If I may, Mr Speaker, if I can speak to the | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
honourable lady after the station and obtained some more details we | :52:10. | :52:16. | |
will respond. Thank you Mr Speaker. I met with a number of police | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
officers and my constituency who have witnessed extreme trauma. The | :52:21. | :52:28. | |
arrangements for their sick pay and their medical discharge and pension | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
seem to be strikingly different to that of those who have suffered | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
physical injury in the courts of their duty. Does my right honourable | :52:37. | :52:38. | |
friend agree with the Vatican and the government's pursuit of parity | :52:39. | :52:45. | |
between mental and physical illness, police forces should be ensuring | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
that all injury or illness that is attributable to service is supported | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
in the same way. I agree with my right honourable friend. Police | :52:56. | :52:58. | |
officers are entitled to exactly the same sick leave and pay arrangements | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
suffer a mental or a physical on this. Request is subject to same | :53:03. | :53:11. | |
task, and is is possibility of chief constables that they provide for | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
that in their local policies. I am also pleased to say that in October | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
2014, the government allocated ?8 million to the blue light services | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
programme to support the mental and physical well-being of emergency | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
services personnel. The government have always justified their cuts to | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
policing on the basis that crime has not gone up. Since 2010, we have | :53:32. | :53:38. | |
lost more officers than any other force. Crime in Manchester is going | :53:39. | :53:45. | |
up and going up faster than other metropolitan areas. As crime | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
continues to rise, with the government reasonably be considered | :53:50. | :53:51. | |
the production to the number of front line police officers? Lets go | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
of this again. We as a government have not produced a number of police | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
officers on the front line. And front line times, the percentage | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
have gone up. One party that wanted to cut the police budget was the | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
Labour Party. That was a people we do not to. Thank you Mr Speaker. | :54:10. | :54:16. | |
What steps the secretary of state taking to see what we are doing to | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
better protect the public. We are taking a number of steps as a piece | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
of work that is being undertaken to ensure that we look at where | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
capabilities should best light in terms of police reform. I just | :54:31. | :54:36. | |
others this year and relation to this matter. I am happy to say that | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
I have been able to have discussion on precisely this matter with an | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
honourable friend who if he becomes mayor of London will continue this. | :54:46. | :54:55. | |
The chief Rob Wainwright has ordered up to 5000 ices fighters in the EU. | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
How does the home Secretary Phil that being in the EU makes us safer? | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
The honourable gentleman will be aware that what is important for the | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
United Kingdom and being in the European Union is that we are able | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
to continue with the border controls that we have. Unlike those country | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
and sang and, we will never be an changing, and read will maintain our | :55:21. | :55:29. | |
security checks. Hear, hear! Mr Speaker! The Prime Minister has | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
claimed that he has delivered on his promise that if an EU job seeker has | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
not found work within six months they will be required to leave. A | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
promise that he made to JCB workers on the 20th of November 20 14. In | :55:45. | :55:53. | |
reply to my worker -- a written question, number 17574 in December | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
of last year, the integration committee admitted that Aidan EU | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
migrants and keep the status of the job seeker for longer than six | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
months. Can the home secretary clarified who is right? The Prime | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
Minister or the immigration minister? I think that we can safely | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
say that the Prime Minister is right. In a few moments time he will | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
be able to hew precisely how the Prime Minister has set up out. Mr | :56:20. | :56:28. | |
Speaker, I was proud to be able to joint housing for women last week to | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
celebrate the first anniversary of their operating the women's refuge. | :56:33. | :56:40. | |
They support 38 women and children and 2015. Unfortunately, not all | :56:41. | :56:43. | |
refugees are in the same position. 30 have closed over the last year. | :56:44. | :56:50. | |
42% of crisis and is not having money beyond next month. Can the | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
home Secretary do everything she can to ensure that no woman is forced to | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
return home to a violent partner and possibly her death? The honourable | :57:00. | :57:06. | |
lady, I remember the days when she and I both served on the Council for | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
the London Borough of Merton. She continues to take in this issue | :57:12. | :57:14. | |
domestic violence and support for the victims and survivors of | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
domestic violence. Of course, the government has put extra money into | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
refugees. We have been able to do that and we have also been ensuring | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
that we support money for various domestic violence services. This is | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
a terrible time -- crime and we need to deal with that. What assessment | :57:29. | :57:36. | |
has been made about a number of connections made by police forces | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
for child abuse images date is basis to be launched? My honourable friend | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
raise and important issues. Child abuse image database. Something that | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
this government into dues and is leading the world in terms of | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
tackling indecent images of children online. We now have all 43 forces | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
connected to the image database. We are starting to see real results in | :58:05. | :58:16. | |
protecting children. Where police, fire and rescue services,. Will the | :58:17. | :58:23. | |
Minister did a guarantee that whatever happened that there that -- | :58:24. | :58:29. | |
that they would allow the services provided to be privatised? The whole | :58:30. | :58:37. | |
reason for enabling police and crime commission is to bring together | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
policing and fire and rescue services is to be able to offer | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
enhanced services. In looking at a decision to be on a local level, a | :58:46. | :58:47. | |
business it -- case will Mr Speaker, the commission I would | :58:48. | :59:01. | |
like to make a statement on the agreements reached in Brussels last | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
week. First let me say a word about the migration crisis which was also | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
discussed at the European Council. We agreed that we needed to press | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
ahead with strengthening the use borders to ensure that not the | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
charges are returned promptly and back the new mission that has | :59:19. | :59:24. | |
brought the criminal gangs to put them in peoples slides and the risk. | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
Britain. But the Constitution and all of these areas. Turning to | :59:30. | :59:33. | |
Britain's place in Europe. I have spent the last nine months ending | :59:34. | :59:36. | |
out the four areas are ready for form and beating with all other 27 | :59:37. | :59:41. | |
EU heads of state and government to reach an agreed with that delivers | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
concrete reforms and all four areas. Let me take each in turn. First, but | :59:45. | :59:50. | |
as jobs and businesses depend on being able to trade with Europe on a | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
level praying field. The one new protection for our economy to | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
safeguard the proud and promote our financial services industry to | :00:01. | :00:03. | |
protect British taxpayers from because the problems in the euro | :00:04. | :00:06. | |
zone and to ensure that we have a full say over the rules of a single | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
market while remaining outside the euro zone. We got all those things. | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
We have not is probably the fact of the towns and our right to keep it | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
but we have ensured that we cannot discriminate against. Responsibility | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
for supervising the financial stability of the UK, will always | :00:24. | :00:26. | |
remain in the hands of the Bank of England. We | :00:27. | :00:44. | |
have not be made to bail out countries in the euro zone, they | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
made sure that the euro zone cannot act as a block to undermine the | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
integrity of these free-trade single market. We guarantee that produced | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
this is one of faith and he does commission for being outside the | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
euro zone. For example, our financial service firms, our number | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
one service export, employing over a million people can ever be forced to | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
relocate inside the euro zone if they want to undertake complex | :01:01. | :01:02. | |
trades and Europe, just because they're based in the UK. These with | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
taxes and not to set out in a legally binding agreements, off 28 | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
member states will also clear that these reviews will be changed, to | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
incorporate the protections of the UK as the economy that is inside the | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
EU, but outside the euro zone. We also agree that a to enable 9 euros | :01:16. | :01:26. | |
on countries to raise issues of concern, and we won the battle to | :01:27. | :01:28. | |
ensure that this could be triggered by one country alone. Of course the | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
distance would be available if he were to leave the EU. We wanted | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
commitments to make Europe more competitive, creating jobs, and | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
making British families more financially secure. Again, we got | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
them. Europe will complete the single market and key areas that | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
will help Britain. And services making it easier for thousands of UK | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
service bays companies like IT firms to trade in Europe. In the capital | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
so UK startups can access more for their business and an energy. We | :02:00. | :02:07. | |
have secured commitments to complete trade and investment agreements with | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
the fastest-growing and most dynamic economies around the world. | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
Including the USA, Japan, China as well as our Commonwealth allies, | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
India, New Zealand and Australia. These deals could add billions of | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
pounds and thousands of jobs. Of course, they build on the deals we | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
already have with the three countries around the world for which | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
Britain has been accredited to the negotiating muscle that comes from | :02:34. | :02:35. | |
being part of the world largest trading bloc. This is bigger, of | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
course country after country has said that they could find trade | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
deals with Britain, but they have also said that their priority would | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
be trade deals with the EU. By their nature, these EU deals would be | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
bigger and better, a deal with Britain would not even be possible | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
until we have settled our position outside of the EU. This is bigger, | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
for those members who care about finding new trade deals outside of | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
the EU, we would be looking at years and years of delay. | :03:08. | :03:49. | |
Last but by no means least on competitiveness, one of the biggest | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
frustrations for Britain's business is red tape and bureaucracy. There | :03:54. | :03:55. | |
will be partners to cut the total burden of EU regulation on business. | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
This build on the progress that we have already made, with the | :03:59. | :04:00. | |
commission already cutting the number of initiatives by 80%. In the | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
that the cost of EU red tape will be going down, not up. Of course if we | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
were to leave the EU, but ultimately achieve a deal, with access to the | :04:07. | :04:08. | |
single market like Norway. Who would be subject to all of the EU | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
regulation when selling in the euro. But with no say over the world. As | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
the former Europe spokesman for the no reason conservative party, if you | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
want to run Europe you must be an euro. If you want to be run by | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
Europe, feel free to join nor Ray. Third, we want to reduce the very | :04:21. | :04:22. | |
high level of migration within the unique -- EQ by preventing our role | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
for system to act as a magnet for people to come to our country. After | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
the hard work of the home Secretary we have secured new powers against | :04:29. | :04:30. | |
criminals of the country and power to stop them from coming here in the | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
first is empowered to do for them if they already here. We agreed a | :04:35. | :04:36. | |
longer reentry bands for fraudsters and people who collude and then into | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
the ridiculous situation for EU nationals can avoid British | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
immigration rules when bringing their feminism outside the EU. | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
Disagreement broke new ground with the European Council agreed to | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
reverse positions from the European Court of Justice. We also secured a | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
breakthrough agreement for Britain to reduce the unnatural drawl that I | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
benefit system exerts across Europe. Therefore he made sure that EU | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
migrants cannot claim the new employment benefit or universal | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
credit. Those coming that have not found work within six months cannot | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
be required to leave. At this counsel we agree that EU migrants | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
working in Britain can be prevented from sending Child benefit home at | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
UK rates. This would apply first some new claimants and then to | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
existing claimants on the start of 2020. We also establish a new break | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
so that EU migrants would have to wait for years until they have full | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
access to our benefit. Mr Speaker, people for the it was impossible to | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
achieve real change in our area. Yet, that is what we have done, we | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
have got the benefit. What is activated, once activated, the | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
emergency brake will be in place for seven years. If it began to lecture | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
it will still be operating in 2024. There will be people who won't be | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
getting 40 benefits until 2028. Bass full benefits. People should not be | :06:08. | :06:16. | |
able to come there and get access to our benefit to them straightaway. No | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
were something for nothing. I'm sure the discussion about welfare and | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
immigration, will be intense, let me make this point. No country outside | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
of the EU has agreed full access to the single market without accepting | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
paying into the EU, and accepting free movement. In addition, our new | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
safeguard lives if we vote the leave the EU. We might end up with free | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
movement, but without these new protections. The fourth area, where | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
we wanted to make significant changes was to protect our country | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
from further European political integration, and to increased powers | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
for our national parliament. Ever since we joined, Europe has been on | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
the path to something ever closer union. It means a political union. | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
We have never liked it or wanted it. And now, principal be permanently | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
and legally excluded from it. The text that is, the treaties will be | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
changed to make clear, and I quote, the Treaty represents for an ever | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom. This is bigger, as a | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
result of this negotiation, perfect in every part of a European Union | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
superstate. The council also agreed that ever closer union which has | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
been referred to, and previous estimates from the European Court of | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
Justice, does not offer a legal basis, for extending the scope of | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
any provisions of the charges, or any you secretary the translation. | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
People used to talk about a multispeed Europe, now we have a | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
clear agreement that not only are different countries able to travel | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
at different speeds, but they are ultimately able to head to different | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
destinations as well. I would argue that that is a fundamental change in | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
the wait is over additional work. We also strengthen the role of this | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
house and on national parliament, we already passed a referendum act, to | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
make sure that no powers can be handed to Brussels without this | :08:19. | :08:20. | |
house and on national parliament, we already passed a referendum act, to | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
make sure that no powers can be handed to Brussels with updates with | :08:24. | :08:25. | |
the consent of the British the position we don't want, we can get | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
together with other parliaments and block it with a red card. And we | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
have a new mechanism to enforce the principle that as far as possible, | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
powers to sit here and Westminster, not to Brussels. The European Union | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
has to go through the powers of the exercise and work-out which are no | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
longer needed and should be returned to Michigan State. In recent years | :08:47. | :08:53. | |
we have also seen attempt to bypass are off out on Justice and home | :08:54. | :08:55. | |
affairs by bringing forward legislation. The agreements and Les | :08:56. | :09:07. | |
Bleus Council ensures that this can never happen again. The reforms that | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
we have secured will be legally binding in international law and | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
will be deposited as a Treaty at the UN. They cannot be unpacked that the | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
agreement of the prison every other EU countries. As I have said, I'll | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
28 member states that the treaty will be changed to incorporate | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
advertisers for the UK as an economy outside the euro zone, and our | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
permanent exclusion from ever closer union. Mr Speaker, our special | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
status means that Britain can have the both best of both worlds. Who | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
will be in the path of Europe that work for us, and so it's a affect | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
us, in the driving seat of the worlds biggest single market, and | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
with the ability to take action to keep our people safe. We will be | :09:54. | :10:32. | |
out of the parts of Europe that do not work for us. Out of the euro, as | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
of the euro zone bailouts come out of the passport periods no border | :10:38. | :10:39. | |
area and permanently and legally protected from ever being part of a | :10:40. | :10:42. | |
ever closer union. Of course there is still more to do, I am the first | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
to say, that there is though many ways and was organisation needs to | :10:46. | :10:47. | |
improve. The task of reforming Europe does not and with plastics | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
agreement. With the special status that the settlement gives the I do | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
believe that the time has come to fulfilling the other final | :10:53. | :10:54. | |
commitment that this government made and that is to hold a referendum. Mr | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
Speaker, this Speaker, I am today commended the process set out from | :10:58. | :10:59. | |
our act and to propose that the British people decide our future and | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
Europe to an in and out referendum on Thursday the 23rd of June. The | :11:03. | :11:04. | |
Foreign Secretary is late and both houses and the government is | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
negotiating it. This is built into the duty to publish information, set | :11:08. | :11:09. | |
out in section six of the European Union referendum and that the | :11:10. | :11:11. | |
Cabinet agreed on Saturday, the government of Zimbabwe to recommend | :11:12. | :11:13. | |
that person remains in a reformed European Union. This is a vital | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
decision for the future of our country, I agree that we should also | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
be clear that it is a final decision. An idea has been put | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
forward that in the country votes to leave. We can have a second | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
renegotiation and perhaps another referendum. I want to vote on the | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
irony that some people who want to vote to leave, apparently want to | :11:39. | :11:40. | |
use a leave to remain. Such an approach, also ignores more profound | :11:41. | :12:05. | |
point about democracy, diplomacy and the galaxy. This is a straight | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
Democratic position. Staying in or leaving and no government can ignore | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
that. Having a second renegotiation followed by a second referendum is | :12:15. | :12:22. | |
not on the ballot paper. And for a promise are to ignore the expressed | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
will of the British people to leave the EU, we are not just from but it | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
would be undemocratic. On the diplomacy, the idea that the other | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
European countries will be ready to start a second negotiation is for | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
the birds. Many are under pressure for what they have already agreed. | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
Then there is a legality and I want to start off as point for the house | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
carefully because it is important. If the British people told to leave, | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
there is only one way to bring that about. That is to trigger article 50 | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
of the treaties and begin the process of exit. The British people | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
would rightly expect that that should start straightaway. That may | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
be absolutely clear about how this works. As triggers a two your time | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
period to negotiate the residence for an exit. At the end of the | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
stairs, is no group what is in place, then exit is automatic and | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
left everybody in the other states agrees to a delay. We should be | :13:21. | :13:28. | |
clear that this process is not a invitation to rejoin, it is a | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
process for leaving. I have known a number of couples who have began | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
divorce proceedings, but I do not know an event begun divorce | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
proceedings and order to renew their marriage vows. LAUGHTER that may | :13:40. | :13:54. | |
explain, I want to explain what happens when section 50. We should | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
also be clear... We should also be clear, what would happen if that | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
deal to leave was not done within two years. Our current access to the | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
single market would cease immediately, after two your throat. | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
The current trade agreements with the difficulties across the world | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
would lapse. This cannot be described as anything other than | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
risk, uncertainty and a lead in the dark that could hurt working people | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
and our country for years to come. This is not some theoretical | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
question, this is a real decision about peoples lives. | :14:33. | :14:44. | |
When it comes the people stops, it is simply not enough to say it will | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
be all right on the night that will work it out. I believe that | :14:50. | :14:51. | |
intermixed the company to properly face up to the economic consequences | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
of a choice to leave. Mr Speaker, I believe that Britain will be | :14:55. | :14:56. | |
stronger, safer and better off by remaining in a reformed European | :14:57. | :14:58. | |
Union. Stronger, because we can play a leading role in one of the worlds | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
largest organizations from within. Helping to make sure the big | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
decisions on trade and security that determine our future. Safer, because | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
the can work with our European partners to fight cross-border crime | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
and terrorism. And better off because businesses will have full | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
access to the free-trade single market, bringing jobs, investment | :15:17. | :15:24. | |
and lower prices. Mr Speaker, there will be much debate about | :15:25. | :15:26. | |
sovereignty and rightly so, to me, what matters most is the pattern to | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
get things done for our people and our country. Leaving the EU may | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
briefly make us feel more sovereign, but would actually give us more | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
power or influence and a greater ability to get things done? If we | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
leave, but we have the power to stop opposite is being discriminated | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
against? No! But we have the power to insist that Europeans countries | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
share with us their bold information so that we know what there is that | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
criminals are doing? No! We have more influence over the decisions | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
that affect the prosperity and security epistemic? Know we won't! | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
We are a great country! Whatever it was the make, we will still be | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
great! I believe the choice, is between being and even greater brain | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
inside how to reform the EU, or a great leap into the unknown! The | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
Times is facing the West and how to reform the EU, or a great leap into | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
the unknown! The Times is facing the West today Vladimir Putin aggression | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
and eases the most extremism to the south, this is in no time to divide | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
the web. When faced with challenges, and to our way of life, our values | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
and freedoms, this is it time for strength in numbers. Mr Speaker, let | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
me end by saying, I am not standing for reelection. I have no other | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
agenda I have no other agenda than what is best for our country. I am | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
standing here telling you what I think. My responsibility as prime | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
minister is to speak plainly about what I believe is right for our | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
country. That that is what I will do every day for the next four months. | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
I commend the statements of the house! Thinking is bigger. I would | :17:02. | :17:12. | |
like to think the promise of four advanced notice of the statement. | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
And I visited him in a long time to write it because I receded a but | :17:16. | :17:27. | |
it's as afternoon. -- I received it at 3pm this afternoon. The people of | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
Britain face in-store price on the 23rd of June on whether to remain | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
part of the European Union went to leave. We welcome the fact that it | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
is now the hands of the people on this issue. We are wanting to stay | :17:41. | :17:52. | |
and because he believed that the European Union has brought | :17:53. | :17:54. | |
investment jobs and protection for work of consumers and the | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
environment. We are convinced that a vote to remain as of the best | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
interest of the people. And the 21st-century Mr Speaker, as a | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
country and a consummate and as the human race. We faced with | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
challenging issues. How to tackle climate change, how to address the | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
power of global corporations, how to ensure that they pay state taxes. | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
How to tackle cyber crime and terrorism, I would trade fairly and | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
protect jobs and pay in an era of globalisation. How we address the | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
causes of the huge refugee movement across the world. How would add that | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
to a world where people of all countries, move more frequently to | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
live, work and retire. All of these issues are serious, pressing and | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
self-evidently can only be solved by international cooperation. The | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
European Union will be a vital part of how we as a country meet those | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
challenges. Therefore Mr Speaker. That is more than disappointing that | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
the prime Minister Steele has failed to address a single one of those | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
issues. Last week, like him, I was in Brussels, meeting with heads of | :19:09. | :19:16. | |
governments and leaders of European Union Socialist party. One of them | :19:17. | :19:17. | |
said to me, what they said, if the party opposite of what | :19:18. | :19:57. | |
had to think for a moment about what's going on. One person said to | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
me, I follows quite profound, he said we are discussing the future of | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
a continent. And one English Tory has reduced it to the issue of | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
taking away benefits from workers and children. The reality Mr | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
Speaker, is that this entire negotiation has not been about the | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
challenges facing our confidence, neither has it been about the issues | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
facing the people of Britain it is a theatrical sideshow about trying to | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
appease or failing to appease the half of the Prime Minister is all | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
the conservative party. That is not to say that there has not been | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
somewhat worthwhile changes. The Redcar assist him, to strengthen the | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
house of national parliament is something we and these mentors have | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
long back, the labor and elastin last in Iraq's election. It was not | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
of the conservative man manifesto but we welcome this. We also welcome | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
the symbolic amendment on ever closer union. Britain's | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
long-standing position not to join has been such an accepted. We see | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
the influence of Tory party funders, on a Prime Minister vessel status, | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
not for Britain but the city of London. It is the same essence of | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
that caused his the Chancellor to rush to Europe with an army of | :21:27. | :21:34. | |
lawyers to oppose any regulation of the grotesque level of bankers | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
bonuses. It is necessary to protect the rights of 9 euros on states, but | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
not to undermine EU wide efforts to regulate the financial sector, | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
including the border. Liberals stand for a different approach. That's a | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
labor. That is why members of the European Parliament is a opposing | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
the transatlantic trade negotiations was trying to undermine national | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
sovereignty, push the privatsation of public services, drive down | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
standards for workers and consumers, Mr Speaker, human rights should be | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
but part of that treaty. I believe it should be happy feature of all | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
trade treaties. Then, there is the so-called emergency brake. We | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
support the principle of Peart Constitution. However, does the | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
evidence not back-up the claim that an overt benefits are significant | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
draw for workers who come to Britain from the European Union. The changes | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
he promised is secured do nothing to address the real challenges of low | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
pay and prevent undercutting of local rates rates and and is derived | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
pay agreements, they won't put a penny in the pockets of workers and | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
Britain nor will they stop the grotesque exploitation of many | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
migrant workers, or reduce migration to Britain. Will the promised to | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
tell us what discussions he has had to get European roles and place to | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
protect the going rates and to stop agencies bragging and cheap labor, | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
to undercut workers and Britain, while the exploit to undercut | :23:18. | :23:19. | |
workers and Britain, while exploiting the martyr for his? The | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
Dees the two of the EU leaders about outlawing the so-called Buddhist | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
derogation from the edge workers directive for which threatens to | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
undermine one of the key achievements of the last Labour | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
government by allowing them to use them agency staff to undercut other | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
workers? These would have been positive and worthwhile discussions | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
to tackle low-paid, reduce benefit cost and protect workers. We must on | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
all of the speaker, be clear that Britain has benefited from | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
migration. From EU workers coming into wrecking our industry to our | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
other public services to fill gaps. The thousands of doctors and nurses | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
who work in our national health service is saving lives every day. | :24:05. | :24:11. | |
The European Union has delivered protection from workers, it would | :24:12. | :24:13. | |
labor that made sure that Britain's EU membership if work is right to | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
make minimum paid leave and protection on working time is ripe | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
for agency workers, paid maternity and paternity leave, equal pay, | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
anti-discrimination laws, and protection for the work force with | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
companies changed ownership. It was labor working partnership with the | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
parties and unions across Europe that makes of the vehicle promise of | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
the vehicle promise of attempt to diminish workers rights was kept off | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
the agenda of these EU negotiations. Labor has supported, move to reduce | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
child benefits and nonresident children as a reasonable amendment, | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
however we also welcome protection for 20 and so that families have the | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
ability of income. The prominence it still includes consignments. But it | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
a closet and irrelevant to the choice facing the British people. | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
Not one to go I facing the British people. Not one fickle element that | :25:07. | :25:08. | |
is a significant impact on the Kevin Kisner and stay in. We welcome | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
the fact the theatrical sideshow is over. We want to make a real case | :25:13. | :25:19. | |
that will be put by my friend the Member for who really are camping. | :25:20. | :25:28. | |
Labor believes the EU is a model framework for European trade and | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
cooperation in the 21st century. Not only what the EU delivered today but | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
as a framework through which we can achieve much more in the future. To | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
deliver these progressive reforms that I have referred to, when he to | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
work with our partners and Europe to achieve them. Therefore, we must | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
ensure that remain a member. That is the case are going to be making for | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
a Europe that is socially cohesive, a Europe that share the benefit of | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
wealth and prosperity amongst all of its citizens. But as the case we are | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
making as Labour Party, as a trade union movement in this country and | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
we look forward to that public debate. By Magomed have the opposite | :26:08. | :26:14. | |
spin for his contribution. He and I disagree on a lot of things about | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
economic policy about social policy about welfare policy, and did you | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
even disagree on the approach we should take within and Europe as a | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
gas as demonstrated in his the spots, but we do both agree about | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
one thing, which says that Britain should be in there fighting for a | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
good deal for our country. I were a little for the ombudsman because he | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
will be accused of fossils of things. Some of the verism of the | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
unfair. If the Texas courts will be accused of being a member of the | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
establishment. That'll be the most unfair attack of all. What he said | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
about the deal, than they make two points about why I think he should | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
welcome the deal, the first is that implements, as far as I can see him | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
as every pledged on Europe and the Labour manifesto, I'm looking at the | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
former leader. They pledged to complete the former leader. They | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
pledged to complete physical market, they pledged for budget discipline. | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
They said that we will ensure that EU rules protect the interest of 9 | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
euros members. He went on and said that people coming to Britain from | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
the EU to look for work, are expected to contribute to our | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
economy and to our society so that we will secure is to immigration and | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
Social Security reform. It also says and I quote," we would work to | :27:31. | :27:42. | |
strengthen,... I'm just reminding my new friend what they said that the | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
election. They said this "We will work just as the influence of | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
national parliaments over Europe in the session by our group for Redcar | :27:52. | :27:54. | |
mechanism for never states." Excellent. Where I think the right | :27:55. | :28:01. | |
of him was unfair is that he's said that this deal was really all about | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
Britain, and not about anyone else. I would point out the Slovakian | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
Prime Minister said good, the myth about every quote didn't have | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
followed. The Hungarian prime minister said that the UK managed to | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
put an end to the practice of creeping power withdraw from | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
national member states. The former president of the commission said | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
that the real consequence of the summit is missionary important. | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
Brussels has an shot a multispeed Europe. This is beneficial to your. | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
Where I disagreed with the ombudsman is I think that these trade deals | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
are good for Britain and is to redo them we the better. I think he's | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
wrong about financial services. That was well received -- and outside of | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
the southern city of London and five. Crucially, what the single | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
market means is that with one establishment and Britain, you can | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
trade throughout the European Union. Booze it and do the job going for | :29:02. | :29:10. | |
Labor government than the care we have all had our difficulties with | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
your. We have all went to the debug the damn. But if I want to get | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
powers in turn, we have all found that because of I love for this | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
house, we found this process trying but at the end of the day we always | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
know when it comes to our economy and prosperity we're | :29:30. | :29:38. | |
will be Prime Minister agree that if he refers to the continental press | :29:39. | :29:47. | |
he will see that he has demonstrated the influence of a British prime | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
minister. He has actually -- it will be difficult for the fellow Prime | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
Minister is to sell to their own political establishment. Does he | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
agree with me that future generations will benefit from some | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
of those concessions, particularly those on and marching the single | :30:06. | :30:13. | |
market, guaranteeing our excess, deregulating, and regular eating | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
trade deals. Is he agree that it is not the politics of fear to point | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
out that those who advocate a no vote don't seem to know what a no | :30:23. | :30:30. | |
vote means? If they continually imply that somehow all of the | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
benefits that flow from Europe in terms of jobs, investment, | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
insecurity, will somehow continue to come here when they have swept away | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
the obligations that previous British governments have always | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
accepted? I am grateful for my right honourable friend says. In terms of | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
what... It has been interesting on what some of the four newspapers | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
have set. I will get you one example. Spanish paper has said that | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
British execs in reality beaches new heights yesterday. No other country | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
to its more acceptance in Europe. I am proud of that fact. We do have a | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
different status in Europe, and that has become more special with the | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
changes that we have made. I think that the point that my friend makes | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
is absolutely right. They recognise that there are disadvantages for | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
being in the European Union, I make no bones about that. I can that be | :31:23. | :31:25. | |
but his people in the eye and say this is what it is going to be like | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
if we state them. It was going to be better because of the deal that we | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
have done. The people that are advising us to leave have to spell | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
out what the consequences of leaving are, and I think that the absolute | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
lodestar is that no country has been able to get full access to the | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
single market without accepting either paying into the EU are | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
accepting free movement. If you don't want to accept those two | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
things, I think you have to start accepting that you are not going to | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
get as good of trade and business position as we have today. People | :31:58. | :32:00. | |
that want to be going to start making up their mind. Do you want a | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
Norway deal? A Switzerland deal, a candidate deal? I don't care which | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
deal you like, but we had to tell people because they deserve an | :32:11. | :32:18. | |
answer. May I begin by thinking the Prime Minister for advanced side of | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
the statement. The referendum choice before the electorate is a huge one | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
which will define our relationship with the rest of Europe, and indeed | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
the nations of the United Kingdom. Scotland is a European nation, and | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
the SNP is a European party. We will campaign positively to remain in the | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
EU, hopefully the Prime Minister can confirm today that he will reject | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
the tactics of project fear and make a positive case for remaining part | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
of a reforming European Union. It is hugely important to be a part of the | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
largest market in the world, and to be able to influence its rules and | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
laws. In rolling matters that the -- it matters that we can co-operate | :33:01. | :33:09. | |
for rights. We should also forget the lessons of European history, and | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
not turn our backs on European neighbours who need help at this | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
time to deal with a huge challenge including migration. Mr Speaker. | :33:18. | :33:26. | |
Public opinion in Scotland, a majority, supports membership of the | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
European Union. Every single Scottish MP -- MP supports | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
. Does the Prime Minister have any idea what the consequences would be | :33:38. | :33:46. | |
of Scotland being taken out of the EU against the wish of the Scottish | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
electorate? I want Scotland and the rest of the UK to remain within the | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
European Union. However, if we are forced out of the EU, I am certain | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
about public in Scotland will to read -- demand a referendum on | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
Scottish independence and we will protect our place in Europe. First | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
of all, I can confirm that I will make a positive case. A case based | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
around there and being stronger, safer, and better off. This is a | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
choice. I think that it is very important that we set out the toys, | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
and the alternative, to the British people. This is the most important | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
decision that people are going to make on a political issue | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
potentially and their lifetimes. I don't want anyone to take a step | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
into the dark without properly thinking through what the | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
consequences are. One thing I actually agree with the honourable | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
gentleman about, is that although Brussels and the institutions can be | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
frustrating, we should never forget what brought this institution into | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
being and the first place. Even at the most frustrating time of talks, | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
you look around the table and think of how these countries fought and | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
killed each other for so long. The dialogue that they take together is | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
positive. In terms of the boat in Scotland, this is one UK boat. Hear, | :35:04. | :35:12. | |
hear! -- vote. My right honourable friend has just spoken about | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
national parliaments, democracy, and our sovereignty. In the Bloomberg | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
speech, he made it clear that he regarded our national parliament as | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
being the root of our democracy. Yesterday, he referred to the | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
Aleutian of sovereignty. -- illusion of sovereignty. Will he explain and | :35:31. | :35:38. | |
repudiate that statement and reference to the question before us | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
in relation to our parliament and democracy in the making of our laws, | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
which at this moment in time under the European committees act, are | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
made by a majority vote of other countries, are introduced by it an | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
unelected commission, and are enforced by a court of justice. This | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
is not excepted the only way of out of that is to lead the European | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
Union? First of all, I have huge respect for my European -- | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
honourable friend who has campaigned for many years. One thing that he | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
will welcome is that we are allowing the British people a choice to stay | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
in or lead the European Union. Let me confirm that yes, this parliament | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
is sovereign. We chose to join the the European Union and we can choose | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
to be. But me explain exactly what I meant by saying that it would be the | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
illusion of sovereignty. Let me take one issue. We now have safeguards so | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
that British banks, businesses, cannot be discriminated against if | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
we state in the European Union. They can't be discriminated against | :36:44. | :36:45. | |
because we are not in the euro. Where are we to lead, obviously we | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
would not have that protection. They could discriminate against us, and | :36:50. | :36:52. | |
frankly I think they would discriminate against us. Therefore, | :36:53. | :37:04. | |
and that way, we might feel more sovereign, but it would be an | :37:05. | :37:06. | |
illusion of sovereignty because he would not have the power to protect | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
the businesses that protect jobs of my ability and our country. Despite | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
assurances, it is worth saying that this referendum is about the future | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
of our country not the future of a divided conservative party. With the | :37:18. | :37:20. | |
Prime Minister agree with me that it is also not just about Britain's | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
place in the European Union, but also print's place in the world. | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
President Obama has been crystal clear that if Britain were to be the | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
European Union, it would weaken not strengthen the special relationship. | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
The Indians, Chinese, I'm mystified that we are even risking exit from | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
the European Union. We agree with me that if rain in the teacher wants to | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
stand tall in New Delhi, Beijing, Washington, and other mobile | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
cobbles, Britain must continue to stand tall in our own European | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
neighbourhood. I think that she he is right. We should make this | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
decision ourselves as a sovereign nation in a sovereign people. I | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
think that it is worth listening to our friends and listening to what | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
they think is best for our country. I have to say all of the leaders and | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
politicians I have backed around the world. I can't think of any of our | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
friends, Australia, New Zealand, America, Canada. That one is to be | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
the EU. The only person I think that might want us to leave is Vladimir | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
Putin, and I don't think that that is someone who has asked for what | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
the right honourable friend and colleague said about this | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
referendum. I will make a cheeky point that we are implementing the | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
2010 Lib Dem manifesto by holding it. Hear, hear! LAUGHTER Can I ask | :38:44. | :39:01. | |
my right honourable friend, the Prime Minister, to explain to the | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
House into the country exactly what way this deal returns sovereignty | :39:06. | :39:15. | |
over any field of lawmaking to the Houses of Parliament? This deal | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
brings back some welfare powers, immigration powers, bailout powers, | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
but more than that, because it cards us forever out of ever closer union | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
it means that the ratchet of the European Court taking power away | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
from this country cannot happen in future. To those who worry, and | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
people do worry, that if somehow if we vote to remain and, the | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
consequence could be more action and Brussels to try and change the | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
agreements that we have. We have a lot in this house of commons. No | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
power can be passed from Britain to Brussels without a referendum. We | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
have a better deal, and a special status, we have a chance to make | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
sure that we build on what we have to protect our people. We can | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
enhance our prosperity, and that is the we make. Mr Speaker, let me | :40:06. | :40:15. | |
think the Prime Minister for quoting and implementing parts of the plane | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
15 Lib Dem manifesto. I wanted to go to the big picture question, which | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
is about how we influence things in our national interest. I want to | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
draw the Prime Minister of the powerful and that his statement, | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
which is this question of course by being a member of the European Union | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
we don't always get our own way, but as he said to the right honourable | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
member on all of the major issues, whether it is trade or climate | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
change, or terrorism and security, he can tell us because he has been | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
the Prime Minister what does he believe. We have more influence in | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
the European Union or outside? Mr Speaker, surely the answer is more | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
influence inside the European Union, at outside. That is why I | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
passionately believe must remain in the European Union. I am grateful to | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
the right honourable gentleman for what he says. I can't promise to | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
implement any part of the bigger manifesto, but I am glad to have | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
been an assistant there. I actually agree with him. The big picture is | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
this, when it comes to getting things done in the world that can | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
help keep people safe in our country, a bigger, better deal on | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
climate change, do we get more because we are in the EU? Gas. | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
Making sure that we have sanctions against Iran that work and getting a | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
ban on their nuclear programme, to be deducted the EU and other new | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
bodies? Yes absolutely. Making sure that we stand up to Russian | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
aggression in Ukraine. We have been the linchpin between the European | :41:46. | :41:47. | |
Union and the United States of America in making those ancient | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
town. If we had been outside the European Union, we would have been | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
waiting at the end of the fund to make out with the decisions were | :41:56. | :41:57. | |
going to be. Instead, we were making them and them. That is how we get | :41:58. | :42:06. | |
things done for our people. Mr Speaker, according to the website, | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
there is a letter and peering into mile's times which has been bitten | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
by a Chris Hopkins on behalf of organizations across the UK wishing | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
for us to remain. Chris Hopkins is apparently a civil servant, could be | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
Prime Minister tell us who that is, which department does he work for, | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
and what authority does he have as a civil servant to campaign for the | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
remaining? I can answer very simply. He is a civil servant working and | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
number ten, and his authority comes from me. He is doing an excellent | :42:41. | :42:48. | |
job. This is not a free-for-all. The government has a clear view. The | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
government's view is that we should remain an informed European Union. | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
The civil service is able to support the government and not roll. Of | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
course, members of Parliament, members -- common members are middle | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
to make their own decision. The Cabinet is holding back. We have a | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
full throated view that we should put Ford in front of the British | :43:09. | :43:10. | |
people so that they I am tempted to think -- ask the | :43:11. | :43:22. | |
Prime Minister if bonds have more fun. -- blonds. If does he remember | :43:23. | :43:32. | |
what the government did in 2014 about the European arrest warrant, | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
and the conclusions that the European arrest warrant acts as a | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
deterrent for offenders commit to this country. Katie pointed out to | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
his pension secretary, and can he ask the home Secretary to bring the | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
working pension secretary on all the other reasons why Britain is safer | :43:50. | :43:51. | |
and more secure in the European Union. The European arrest warrant | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
is a good case in point. I think that all of us who do have this | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
concern about sovereignty have are concerned about the arrest warrant, | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
but look at what has happened in practice. In 2005, terrorists tried | :44:06. | :44:14. | |
to bomb our city for a second time. One of them escaped and was arrested | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
and returned to Britain within weeks under the European arrest warrant. | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
Before that, it could have taken years. I think that we can all see | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
that the practical application of these changes definitely keeps us | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
more safe. When it comes to this question of fighting terrorism a | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
cross-border crime, obviously people are going to have different | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
opinions. I would urge people, listen to the head of the former | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
director of MIT. Listen to the head of euro poll. These are people who | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
know what they speak of and are very clear. These measures help us to | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
stay safe. Thank you Mr Speaker. Having spent the best part of recess | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
and the Arctic circle with the Royal Marines, I am extremely conscious of | :44:56. | :45:08. | |
the need to ensure that everyone of our serving military personnel will | :45:09. | :45:11. | |
be able to cast their vote to leave or to remain in the forthcoming EU | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
referendum which the Prime Minister has worked so hard to get onto the | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
statue books for us. Can the Prime Minister please confirm that every | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
serving member of our armed forces wherever they are in the world, will | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
be entitled to vote and can they guarantee that they will receive | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
their ballot papers in good time, and confirm hubby will ensure that | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
everyone will be counted? My honourable friend clearly had a more | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
entertaining recess that I did, but I am rather jealous. There were | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
moments that I wish I was in the Arctic Circle, I can tell you. I | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
believe that the arrangements are absolutely the same. As for a | :45:48. | :45:56. | |
general election. We have for months until the referendum, there is | :45:57. | :45:58. | |
plenty of time to put in place the arrangements that she seeks. I pay | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
credits to be Prime Minister for delivering a reference to the | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
British people. I will remember the time that he came to the -- this | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
house and argue to -- but the referendum. He will know that we are | :46:13. | :46:19. | |
extremely disappointed in these benches that we don't have as a | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
result of this deal control over our sovereignty over our borders, or our | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
finances. He had said to in his statement, and I quote, that is | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
simply not enough for those in the meat side to say that it will be all | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
right and that we will work it out. He wants a definite facts. On the of | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
migrants coming to Britain in the United Kingdom, when will they first | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
begin to be eligible for some of the darker benefits for quick. What we | :46:47. | :46:56. | |
have is a phased approach so that over four years they get access to | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
benefits. No access to benefits to start with, and full access only | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
after four years. That is a huge advance. If I compare that to a lack | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
of certainty that we are being offered for people who want to | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
leave, who can't tell us whether they favour a model like Norway or | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
Switzerland, where if they want a trade deal like Canada, or if | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
someone to reclaim a purely WTO position. We need to know the answer | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
to that, because frankly it is only one me know that that people can | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
make a proper judgement about the security of staying in any dangers | :47:30. | :47:38. | |
of getting out. Last week's decision requires it to be changed to be | :47:39. | :47:41. | |
irreversible and legally binding. When will the ratification procedure | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
began? I am afraid that my right honourable friend is not right. It | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
is already legally binding and universal because this is the | :47:52. | :47:54. | |
decision of 28 governments to reach a legally binding decision that is | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
deposited as a legal document at the UN. This can only be reversed if all | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
28 members, including the UK, were to come to a different decision. The | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
document sets out very clearly that into specific areas, the changes | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
that we need to the treaty on closer union and safeguards for businesses | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
and countries outside the euro zone, will be put into the treaty as well. | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
The mayor of London has been touted of the leader of the lease campaigns | :48:24. | :48:30. | |
said yesterday that the burden will be able to negotiate a large number | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
of shady deals at great speed because we used to run the against | :48:36. | :48:43. | |
Empire and the world. Will he invite the Mayor to wake up to the 21st | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
century in which the European economy is six times longer than | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
endure -- took seven years to get Canada to get a trade deal, and with | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
so much uncertainty in the world's economy it would be deeply disrupted | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
to increase the risk for British exporters, British manufacturers, | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
and British shops? Let me say, where I share the frustration of many of | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
those who are questioning whether B should stay in a separate Britain | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
does need trade deals to be signed rapidly. We do find it frustrating | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
that Europe is not moving faster. The Korean free trade agreement has | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
been excellent, and about to push ahead with Japan, Canada, and | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
America, and China. Because of this document all of the single more | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
likely. Where I think that the right honourable lady has a good point is | :49:32. | :49:41. | |
this. You can't sign trade deals with other countries until you have | :49:42. | :49:43. | |
determined the nature of your relationship with the EU from the | :49:44. | :49:45. | |
outside. That would take at least two years, and then you have to | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
think how long does it take to sign trade deals? The Canada deal is in | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
its seventh year, and it is still not put in place. I worry that this | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
is a recipe for uncertainty and risk. Business is literally would | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
not know what the arrangements were for year after year, and British | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
business and jobs, and our country would suffer as a result. I have | :50:06. | :50:13. | |
pamphlets calling for us to address our role in by a referendum on art | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
EU membership may have escaped the Prime minister's attention. He will | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
understand why I am absolutely delighted that he is now provided us | :50:24. | :50:29. | |
an opportunity to resolve this question for a generation. Does he | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
agree with me that if the country votes to remain we must positively | :50:36. | :50:38. | |
commit to the institutions of the European Union? To best ensure its | :50:39. | :50:45. | |
success and to move on from the growth -- grudging tone that has | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
dominated our discourse. Equally, the establishment that he leads must | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
positively engaged with a potential decision to lead -- leave and | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
undertake reasonable contingency planning now. Let me make a couple | :50:59. | :51:05. | |
of points to my honourable friend. First of all, one of the things of | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
this renegotiation does is that it does address some of the principal | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
grudges, that I think that this country has rightly had. Too much of | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
a single currency club, political union, too much in terms of | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
migration and a lack of respect for welfare system. Not enough | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
competitiveness and removing bureaucracy. Having dealt with some | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
of these grudges, it may, yes, P possible make sure that we get more | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
things done that says -- sued us. I also agree that something with them | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
-- agree with the Mayor of London said that we have high-quality | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
British officials at every part of this organizations that we can help | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
to drive the agenda. He is right. This should settle this issue for | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
generation. He is also right that we will be publishing the alternatives | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
to membership so that people can see what they are, and also people can | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
see that there are plans that can be made. The Prime Minister has said | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
that there has been great to perform grant in the renegotiation, why then | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
did the French president say the European Union has not granted the | :52:12. | :52:13. | |
United Kingdom any special dispositions from its rules in a | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
deal struck? He went on to say that the Prime Minister said that the | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
city of London when I have special status compared to Europe other | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
stock exchanges? Why is this is a difference between what the French | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
president is saying and what the Prime Minister is an? What I would | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
say is that the French Foreign Minister said that the agreement | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
with the British is a recognition that there is a differentiated | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
Europe. I have Artie quantity so backend, Hungarian prime ministers, | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
and the former tying commissioner. Also, Fran ois Hollande said this, | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
we have recognised British position not in singing, not in the former | :52:54. | :52:55. | |
tying commissioner. Also, Fran ois Hollande said this, we have | :52:56. | :52:57. | |
recognised British position not in singing, not in a euro zone. She | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
does not -- but it has Britain has a special status in Europe. While the | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
referendum decision is a matter for the British people, as | :53:08. | :53:16. | |
does the Prime Minister recognised concern from the White House, | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
Pentagon, State Department, and international players that have | :53:21. | :53:27. | |
already Bedminster macro mentioned. That's ready to stand together in an | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
unsafe world? I my honourable friend Nixon point. I don't think | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
I think that it is based on the fact that they believe that Britain will | :53:40. | :53:47. | |
be a stronger partner, more able to get things done, more able to bend | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
at the will of other countries that are in America's directions when it | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
comes to solving great prices. If you ask yourself how do we need is | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
to reduce pirate attacks off Somalia, how would go to try to fix | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
the problems of Libya's border. Yes, we can act unilaterally, and there | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
are valuable partnerships and Nato, but these EU producers are worth a | :54:09. | :54:15. | |
lot to. The views that the pound has slipped to its lowest level in seven | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
years on the news that the honourable member has joined the | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
league campaign, are the just getting a glimpse of the major | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
economic upheaval that could follow if we leave the European Union? Is | :54:27. | :54:33. | |
it's not a timely reminder that the long-term best interest of our | :54:34. | :54:36. | |
country should come ahead of party politicking or personal ambition? | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
What I would say to the right honourable gentleman is that I think | :54:42. | :54:44. | |
that it is important that we looked at in detail the full economic | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
impact of our staying in the EU were choosing to leave the EU. We will be | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
setting out that approach in the weeks and months to come so that | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
people can see what the dangers are, but the risks are, and also at the | :54:58. | :55:04. | |
cases. Don't be, and agriculture, fishing, and energy policies do | :55:05. | :55:12. | |
damage to domestic producers and the... What can we do about these | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
unfairness is if we stay in the European Union? We have made a lot | :55:19. | :55:26. | |
of progress in recent years. We have made big reforms to the common | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
fisheries policy is. I would suggest, I know that he studies | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
these things very closely, of course why we have a deficit with the EU on | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
goods, we have a substantial surplus when it comes to services. We have | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
to think about the future, and how we safeguard those services as well | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
as making sure that opposition and the single market is open. Opening | :55:49. | :55:55. | |
up the EU market in areas like energy and digital services could | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
create hundreds of thousands of jobs in the future. The Prime Minister | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
agree that remaining a part of the EU will give the UK a strong voice | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
in making sure that the completion of that single market happens, and | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
that the best deal for British businesses and jobs? I think that | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
the honourable me lady makes an important part -- point. The | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
declaration on I think that this is an important | :56:23. | :56:33. | |
point. If we work there, not only with the EU continue to exist and | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
have a big impact on our lives, it would probably head and a very | :56:38. | :56:40. | |
different and more protectionist direction. That would actually | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
affect us. And in many ways quite badly. Thank you Mr Speaker. My | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
right honourable friend will know that have been deluged with advice. | :56:50. | :56:55. | |
On the subject of an ever closer union, can he give us a concrete | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
example of a single easy case that will provide a different outcome if | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
the measures that he agreed last week had been agreed at the time? | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
The ever closer union has been mentioned in a series of judgement | :57:08. | :57:10. | |
by the European Court of Justice. There are two things that we have | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
agreed that I think we'll have an impact. Obviously, the most | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
eye-catching is the fact, and I quote from paragraph one on page | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
ten, is that the substance of these agreements will be incorporated in | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
the treaties and the time of his next position. It will make clear | :57:27. | :57:29. | |
that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
Kingdom. That is a call-back for us, but in many ways it is as | :57:34. | :57:36. | |
significant and something that many other countries do not want is the | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
next paragraph that says the references in the treaty and the | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
preambles are creating an ever closer union, do not offer a legal | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
basis for extending the scope of any provision of the treaties or other | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
EU secondary legislation. This redefinition of ever closer union I | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
think is really quite a fundamental change to the way that this | :57:59. | :58:01. | |
organisation has worked. One way to think of it is that there have been | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
two threats to our sovereignty, one from treaty change passing powers | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
for Britain to Brussels, that can't happen now because of our block. The | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
second one is using terms like the ever closer union to make sure that | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
the EU grows its powers. It can't be done now that we have the strength. | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
One of the reason why this deal took whatever it was this because not | :58:22. | :58:28. | |
everybody likes us. It is not meaningless words, it is worth that | :58:29. | :58:30. | |
mean something and matter, and make a difference. | :58:31. | :58:36. | |
The Prime Minister was elected the 37% of the ball. Which means that | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
even a half these people are to vote in, then this referendum can only be | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
one of the faces of people have voted Labour mass and D,... There | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
isn't a reasonable position that these people will be more interested | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
in the of the case of the case for Europe, then the factual arguments | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
of Conservative Party, entertaining though they are. What is the promise | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
of going to put forth that forth that case, that part of the promise | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
of going to put forth that case, that positive case for Europe? -- | :59:09. | :59:11. | |
one Prime Minister. I do not want to upset him because I'm hoping is | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
going to be supportive. I will say in the speech that I have made | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
today, I have sent out a positive case. It is the case of someone who | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
is Euro sceptical in the genuine sense, I am sceptical about all | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
organisations. All engagement. We should always question whether | :59:30. | :59:36. | |
organisations work for us and be doubtful about these things. That is | :59:37. | :59:40. | |
what is being sceptical means. I come at this from someone who had | :59:41. | :59:45. | |
their doubts about Brussels and the EU, but I have a clear eyed about | :59:46. | :59:48. | |
what is best for Britain. If others want to argue this from a more | :59:49. | :59:54. | |
positive stance about the nature of the EU, fine. Go for it. It is up to | :59:55. | :59:58. | |
everyone to make their own case. I will make my case in a clear | :59:59. | :00:04. | |
determination of what is in Britain's interest. I think I did | :00:05. | :00:14. | |
that today. Can he tell the House, and his estimations, by how much the | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
welfare changes will reduce immigration for the EU in the coming | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
years could tell anybody looks at this, and nose at the moment you can | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
come from the EU and get up to ?10,000 in and work welfare | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
benefits, and the pressure, knows that that is a big incentive to come | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
to Britain. Many people said we would never be able to get changes | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
to in work benefits, and we have got those changes. If we pass this | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
legislation, were they going to see in 2017 a seven-year period, up to | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
2024 will be restricting these welfare claims. That plus all the | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
changes that the Home Secretary has disappeared, and many cases | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
reversing the CJ judgement. They actually restored to our country | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
powers over welfare, powers over immigration Baek a real difference. | :01:03. | :01:11. | |
Best I can. We also support for the reform and will campaign | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
accordingly. If you're to live, what would happen to mention such as | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
convergent funding which is provided by the amounts of money for poor | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
areas? I think the short answer is if we were to leave the EU, and we | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
would not be able to get those funds, which I made a big difference | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
in parts of Wales, and parts of England. In other parts of our | :01:34. | :01:40. | |
country. I also think, I'm someone who was a kid EU but it out and we | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
achieved that historic decision to cut it, but they wish to befriend | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
that some of the work that the has done, in poor countries and other | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
parts of the EU, is actually have economies to grow. They are | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
customers of ours, and so what is Bulgaria, Romania, or Greece or | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
whatever, the economic development is in our interests. -- the economic | :02:01. | :02:09. | |
development. In January, academic bill to try and protect our children | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
from portable... I pulled the bill this month after discussions, their | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
official public this is that piece of legislation. Thousands of | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
directors saw rescued out from Brussels, every gear, that this | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
government has to comply with. Therefore I will be built. We cannot | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
even protect our own children on something as fundamental as this | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
because we do not have the control without the permission of Brussels. | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
I'll look carefully at the case. I know the state can be frustrated, | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
and every of foam filled miniature and mattresses, we've taken steps | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
over and above what other countries are doing, which has kept our own | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
people safer. The other thing I would say is there are a lot of | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
different figures going around about this. And she looks in the library, | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
borrow from being the topic this, it is much more like 15% of loans that | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
come to us from this direction. -- loss. And I commend the parameter | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
his statement and congratulate him on the success of persuading his EU | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
counterpart is signed up for renegotiation. Will he accept gold | :03:21. | :03:29. | |
renegotiations may have been successful, it is not central to how | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
most people make up their minds? When we belong to a European single | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
market, that is where a digg account figure to this country, is a better | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
in or out? What wear basic facing huge insecurities and badges, I | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
would bet off alongside our friends or outside on our own? And we face | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
huge challenges like climate change and the refugee crisis, I would go | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
working with others or isolated on their own? Will he join with me in | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
our shared ambition for a Britannic Europe and for the pond ambition | :04:01. | :04:10. | |
behind him was what -- blonde. . Renegotiation was aimed at dealing | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
with some of the legitimate businesses that we have had in the | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
UK for many years about the way it was the EU work. We thought it was | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
too much of a single currency club, too much political giving, kind is | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
about competitiveness and not enough production in terms of welfare and | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
immigration. I believe this renegotiation and agreement goes | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
long way to lose dealing with each of those problems. Now the time for | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
the even bigger argument about the future of our country and what sort | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
of country we want to live in poor heart cells, children, and grilled | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
children. Of the points that he makes the printer being shown and | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
wealth, getting things done, I'll try to our membership with Nato | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
matters, our relationship with the UN, and our relationship with the EU | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
gives a force of power to get things done. These fences are rightly proud | :05:01. | :05:09. | |
of our record in the job in unemployment, the... -- these pages. | :05:10. | :05:17. | |
Production in our deficit. During his many meetings, did he find | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
anybody, even a single person, am I suggest we will get better terms on | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
our exit to achieve even better outside the cure Community? -- | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
European Community. I think there is goodwill towards Britain, because of | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
the contribution we make to the EU. There is understanding other | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
problems or difficulties that we have had. Therefore, with a huge of | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
the pharmacy and travel and meetings, it has been possible to | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
get a good agreement. I do not believe if we were to take over the | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
table of an eye for a second one, I don't think it is morally feasible. | :06:02. | :06:10. | |
, work on the equalization is possible, which discriminated | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
unfairly the British citizens. -- spouse rules. Can ask him to | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
recommend the work of the Minister for John? I would manage to get on | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
the job, he has done six. He still retained his sanity. Almost. On the | :06:24. | :06:32. | |
other big issue, the migration crisis, the British head of your | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
poll said today that there were 5000 GIs were now within the European | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
Union area. Many have come from the external border of the EU. Whether | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
this amount has been given to Greece and Italy in particular is tried | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
until -- tried to do with protecting the border? Identifies remarks about | :06:54. | :07:03. | |
the Europe minister. His eyes were set for a minute there. But he has | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
been done the job for six years as the nation was well. The point about | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
spousal visas as important, for many years, we are given a dismayed to be | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
sorted out and for many years to EU stood back, if you want the | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
collectibles, change her own rules and here we have managed to do that. | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
In terms of the help that were given to Italy and Greece, the discussions | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
and Brussels were very intense because the numbers really do have | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
to be reduced radically and that is why I strongly support and Britain | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
will contribute to the maritime operation the last song Nato support | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
as well as EU support. To try and bring together Greece and Turkey | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
with a comma information picture, common intelligence what is | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
happening. These, banks operating in the area. Without that, there will | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
not be the right chance of getting the situation under control. For | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
decades, British ministers who had involvement with Europe at, to | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
exaggerate to affluence we bring and conceal our inability to achieve | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
British interests. Is that why it took freedom of information request | :08:20. | :08:21. | |
to established over the last two decades, Britain has voted against | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
72 measures in the European Council? And has been defeated 72 times, and | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
the patient of the accelerating? It would make the mistake to take the | :08:35. | :08:43. | |
risk of remaining in the EU, how many defeats that the Prime Minister | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
is suspect in the next two decades? The frustrations and challenges of | :08:49. | :08:57. | |
being a member of his organisation, there are challenges. The research | :08:58. | :09:05. | |
that I have seen his deep analysis of whether a country that its | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
position, and shows that Britain does in 90% of cases, which even I | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
think operates the Germans. I did for myself what we were hard we can | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
get things done. -- I have seen for myself. If we are outside the single | :09:20. | :09:27. | |
market, the same countries, without us, will write the rules. We will | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
then have to comply with them, when we show that the government would | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
have no say over what they are. That to me is the illusions of | :09:36. | :09:37. | |
sovereignty rather than real sovereignty. I'll accept the | :09:38. | :09:45. | |
symbolism of removing the phrase ever closer union. I do think the | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
Prime Minister opposes House to give at least one two examples of where | :09:52. | :09:59. | |
the sole legal basis for a decision. I am happy to read to her, but it | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
has been used in a series of cases before us. That's happy to write to | :10:04. | :10:14. | |
her. On the question of Article 50, cannot first one out that it did not | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
exist in the treatise until the Lisbon Treaty which my friend used | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
to oppose and not he agrees with. Can I point out there are many ways | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
of leading the European gigging, that might article 50. Date that the | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
power to bind himself and to the Article 50 from work, can he give it | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
some thought rather than committed himself to a policy that he does not | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
support? The point I would make to him is that like it or like it not, | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
I don't particularly like it, but the Treaty of the European and you | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
can set style of the way that you leave. It is called article 50. -- | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
European Union. I think it should read it. I find it odd that if you | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
want to leave, leave. If you want to stay, stay. But the idea of going to | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
leave the try and half day, I don't think the British public will | :11:09. | :11:10. | |
understand it, I don't think our European partners would understand, | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
I'm at a loss to understand it. I thought we wanted a referendum to | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
make a choice. Posted by Minister think that President Clinton would | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
drop the secret... -- President Putin, would he rather see Bridget | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
Breakaway for the EU and to seek your potentially break apart? I | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
think it is true that tournament presented like to see disunity in | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
the West. -- Vladimir Putin. Whether it is about actions of Sarah | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
Corporation conduct another issue. There's no in my mind -- doubt in my | :11:51. | :11:58. | |
mind, that the allies that there is between the Baltic states, Poland, | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
who see it first-hand the problems being created by Putin, and | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
countries like Britain is always in my view should stand up to | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
aggression. But that a life together with the French and Germans, and has | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
made your's stronger and if we were not there, I don't think you can | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
guarantee that would be the case. I do not believe that is an | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
overstepping of the position. In October, Lord Rove said nothing is | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
going to happen and become how to cure in the first five years | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
probably. There will be no change. I hope my friend finds that ritual | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
from the head of the campaign to stay in. What he agree that it is | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
inevitable after the Vote Leave, there will be a period of informal | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
discussions before the formal process is driven? I have to say I | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
have great respect for my Honorable friend who is leading a campaign | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
with great vim and vigour and passion. But surely if you want | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
Britain to leave the EU, you want things to change, rather than not | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
change. The truth is that section, article 50 is the only way to leave | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
and what it says is that if you spend two years negotiating your | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
status outside of the EU, and that they cannot be agreed, at the end of | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
the figures, you leave. That is all of the 27 members agree to extend. | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
That's unless. If you do not have a deal, he don't know what your | :13:27. | :13:28. | |
relationship is with a single market, with a 50 days countries | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
covered by the Trader Joe's, or very much. My argument is that do not | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
take that risk. Stay in a before European Union. But the delayed | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
campaign will have to do is explain what it is that you want was to | :13:43. | :13:51. | |
left. -- the lead campaign. Cannot they be Prime Minister for his | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
detailed statement. Does he accept that with Arlen and -- Ireland | :13:56. | :14:04. | |
connected, to a UK exit of the European you can would have | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
replications for Ireland, North or South. There may be some initial | :14:08. | :14:15. | |
financial savings for the UK, but huge losses are likely to follow. We | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
see them impact today are sterling. Yeah, we know that the financial | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
impact would be negative and slow. Mr Speaker, with recent polls | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
suggesting that 75% of people in Northern Ireland want to stay in the | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
EU, as the Prime Minister agree with me that a UK exit from the EU will | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
have detrimental impact on Northern Ireland's economy and is one peace | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
process? In terms of Northern Ireland, | :14:43. | :15:01. | |
everybody and other islands have a vote, every vote counted. I would | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
urge people to exercise their democratic right. I look forward to | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
going to another island as part of the campaign to talk directly to | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
people why I believe we should stay. And I listened that some people | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
believe that our European neighbours want to do is down at every turn, is | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
a credible to suppose that the selfsame people, if we were to | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
leave, could believe that our phone partners, would follow themselves to | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
give us free access to the single market among which is the vital | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
foundation for our business and industry to trek across the world? | :15:37. | :15:45. | |
-- trade across. I feel that very deeply, because having time to build | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
up the good will for a special status for breaded, within the EU | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
which we have achieved, I do not believe that will would be dead... | :15:53. | :16:04. | |
-- be there. The option of that risk is to stay in the reform EU rather | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
than to take the leap in the dark. Have the Prime Minister Alize the | :16:11. | :16:18. | |
grave consequences for the UK -- outlined the grave, but perhaps | :16:19. | :16:21. | |
reflect on the wisdom of the leadership decisions that led us to | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
be facing those consequences in a few months' time. Besides I want to | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
leave hapless sovereignty and control at the heart of the | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
arguments. That's the size. Does he agree with me that it a position | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
where we are a decision-maker at the timetable, will be moving from | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
position of being a rule-making to a protected and that is not | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
sovereignty, it is not controlled, and it is not the best future for | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
the United Kingdom? I do not agree with what the gentleman said at the | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
first part. I think it is time for a referendum. I think we had too many | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
traders passing through this house, where there was no referendum. | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
Whether it was more strict under the Conservatives or Lisbon, under | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
labor. I think that sack People's faith and our democracy and our | :17:15. | :17:17. | |
accountability. I remember the moment when Tony Blair stood here | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
and said let that of the joint and all the rest and without a | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
referendum is coming. Then it was taken away. It is right to have this | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
referendum and we should not be frightened of asking the people | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
interested the people, but I agree with him that if you want to have to | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
question how it would have greater control, greater influence, it is by | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
being in there helping to make the rules, rather than outside simply | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
taking the rules. Can congratulate the Prime Minister for securing a | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
written the special status that he talked about earlier? Does he agree | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
with me, with the debate so far is that those who want leave your are | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
completely unable to agree on an alternative arrangement for breaded | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
and the EU, that we get the same sort of economic benefits that his | :18:05. | :18:13. | |
negotiation skills? What today's discussions have revealed not only | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
that there is no agreement about what Britain by a future looks like | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
outside of the EU, but there is an agreement about whether we really | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
should leave, some that people wanted to both league in over a | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
different bill. That's not an agreement about how we should leave. | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
What the Article 50, or some other process that can be followed. | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
Unclear, the only way I leave. What the Article 50, or some other | :18:40. | :18:41. | |
process that can be follow. Unclear, the only way of event is to article | :18:42. | :18:44. | |
50. There is no second renegotiation, second referendum, | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
the torch is in or mean. -- the choice is in or out. Can the Prime | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
Minister tell us beyond the areas which are specifically addressed in | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
the deal agreed last week, and which ways his government plans have been | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
constrained by European legislation? There's no doubt that we do face | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
concerns because the way the single market works is a common set of rows | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
that has to be agreed. As it's been said, was and I was cannot wait. | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
That's a common set up rules. There are occasions where we lose a vote, | :19:22. | :19:29. | |
and we are concerned by EU regulation and legislation. The | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
question that they would be to put in a very hard-headed politics and | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
if you are outside, does that give you the full control that you seek? | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
Does not produce up to trade with Europe and accepted rules, don't | :19:44. | :19:45. | |
think I've done is remove yourself from the conversation and take away | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
your vote. Common sense that this will set up the issue of her | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
generation. I am blessed with five grandchildren. I believe it is in | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
their blessed interest that I should be voted to remain within the EU. | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
That's part of. There is another generation that is some concern. | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
Thousands of people are paid UK taxes, an excellent insurance over | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
the years. They are now living in other parts of Europe. My right | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
honourable friend knows that I represent the interests of the | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
people. They're very frightened, and can he tell them what will happen if | :20:24. | :20:31. | |
we leave the European Union? I am grateful that he has decided to | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
support the case for remaining in the EU. I think he raises an | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
important point. We often look at free Will Win in terms of people's | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
decisions to come here. We do also need to think about the many British | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
people would have chosen to work, live, retire and other parts of the | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
EU. The short answer to this question is that I can tell the | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
window be like if the state. But I cannot be absolutely certain if we | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
leave. It would depend on a complex and difficult glaciation cannot be | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
there be a lot of uncertainty. I would urge other people or the right | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
to vote to make that exercise that right and we should think about | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
people in Gibraltar, who are all applicable in this referendum. | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
That's able to vote. To speak plainly about what he | :21:14. | :21:24. | |
believes is right for our country. As it develops the argument, when | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
the bear and mind that nine American people voted Labour and general | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
election? And the sympathies and values don't actually live with his | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
party and a need to develop a conversation with them as well. I | :21:39. | :21:46. | |
take on his point. This is not a party political issue. This is not | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
something for all people, all voters to get involved in. They might vote | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
conservative and a general election, but decide to vote in, or out, and | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
dinner with labor a liberal Democrat. -- ditto. This should be | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
added to the -- giant democratic society and accountability. We are | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
asking question about something, this is a new sovereign decision by | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
the British people. That huge sovereign decision. I would say to | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
Labour voters to decide what you think that government, that rule, or | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
that law. Think about the future of your country, and think about the | :22:26. | :22:27. | |
big picture and then make the choice. I am always nice. The Prime | :22:28. | :22:36. | |
Minister said that crime should be at the forefront of our thoughts | :22:37. | :22:39. | |
when we are putting in the referendum. And the Prime Minister | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
tell us how many crimes were committed in the UK by EU nationals | :22:44. | :22:51. | |
in the given for free movement of people came into effect, and how | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
many were committed by the EU nationals last year, and how many of | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
the EU nationals were imbued in the UK prison system before free but | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
when of people came into operation and how many there are now? I'm sure | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
he has that information. Debbie has not got it, perhaps he can write to | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
me with the information. That's if he doesn't have it. I do not have | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
all the figures, but I can say because of a very harboured by the | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
Home Secretary, will be able to Barbara, and so, too better. That | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
hardware. We are solving problems that the EasyJet has put another | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
way. As for prisoners, the prisoner transfer agreement that was | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
negotiated will mean that we can get for prisoners out of our prisons and | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
into the jails. Outside of the EU, they'll be far more difficult to | :23:42. | :23:50. | |
achieve. -- that will be. I don't remember who was selected the | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
European Parliament in 1979. -- I think I was the only member. Without | :23:56. | :24:08. | |
a lot more sense than itself. We were on opposite sides. I was in | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
favour of a gift membership, his father was in favour of membership. | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
-- against membership. I changed my mind. At the two gears in the | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
European Parliament, I saw the benefits. -- after two years. We're | :24:26. | :24:35. | |
talking about Senate. -- Senate. Were talking about restructuring the | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
social effect. And people work in the auto industry. I think | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
anonymously from working with people and other nationalities, the hope is | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
to emphasise again and again the importance of internationalism. I | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
think it for her honesty. -- bank. I remember campaigning... Head be | :25:01. | :25:19. | |
sitting here and we would have been able to hear from him and for the | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
Maryland. That she would be. -- Mayor of London. Why does the Prime | :25:26. | :25:34. | |
Minister Bank on so much? -- the bank on? So much about these | :25:35. | :25:41. | |
European migration, after the polls have a wonderful record of, care and | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
offer benefits. As a much more worried that Mickens, born an | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
integer from North Africa and the Middle East that the diamonds have | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
any idea what proportion of these people were exercise their right to | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
come here and once they get the German passports? If we remain in, | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
the as useful as a Macedonian strain to stop them. -- strain to stop. I | :26:06. | :26:14. | |
promised to go on for the next four months, and to go on considerably | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
less. I think he makes a good point. We have the advantage of being | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
outside second, so that foreign nationals, to other countries don't | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
have the automatic access to the UK. But he stopped coming in. As what | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
would you European citizens who we think are ever of the country. The | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
factual answer to this question is if you look at refugees and others | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
who have arrived in Germany, after ten years, only around 242% have | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
German citizenship. The evidence to date is there is no huge risk of | :26:50. | :27:00. | |
early to the table. -- 2.2 oppression. The more likely to have | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
are involved to try and stop the flow question the flow of migrants | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
in the first place and would have ingrained now. With this is the lead | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
operation between Greece and Italy is partly because of the UK | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
intervention into this debate. Taken by the French, with the times, | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
because around the table would get things done. Thus the Prime Minister | :27:22. | :27:28. | |
agreed with me that the claim that staying with the European you can | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
would make an attack on our shores more likely, is deeply irresponsible | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
and factually wrong? The Prime Minister has said in a | :27:36. | :32:54. | |
statement that we are to make a final decision. So the one sentence | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
of the statement I agree with a final decision to be made in June as | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
to whether we stay with the valve body on whether we leave and make | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
our own pot -- pass. As a government's policy basically always | :33:10. | :33:17. | |
keep a fair punishment the force? -- finding something worse. Obviously, | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
my friend and I have a profound disagreement about this issue. I | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
respect his views because he has held them in good faith for many | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
years. And until my view is that we need to form for years. I'm sure we | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
can respect each other and the months of debate ahead. Don't think | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
I would say by doing to take issue with my Honorable friend is about | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
manifesto delivered. On a run through whole thing but we said we | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
will legislate for a referendum and we delivered. Which I will protect | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
our economy from the eurozone, and wanted to pursue power for was from | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
Brussels cover in the sediment. One problem is to work together to block | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
unwanted legislation covering the settlement. The one and two ever | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
closer union. We'll will ensure that defence policies national security | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
remains firmly under British national control. We assisted the EU | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
migrants want to claim tax credits must live it here and contribute it | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
for four years covered in the settlement. Time and time again, we | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
also noticed manifesto and I'm proud of them in. I'm proud of the team to | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
put together and implement the good. I say let's have this vigorous | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
argument, let's not pretend that we have not delivered the manifesto | :34:32. | :34:32. | |
that was in front of. The bosses of those companies aren't | :34:33. | :35:04. | |
saying that very publicly, I would invite the Prime Minister during | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
this election campaign to encourage them to talk to those people whose | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
jobs depend on that investment, to say what would happen if we left | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
Europe, because they tell me they would leave Britain. My message to | :35:17. | :35:25. | |
businesses is if you have a view, make sure you tell people and talk | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
to customers, and your suppliers. Above all, talk to your employees, | :35:31. | :35:39. | |
and your staff. This issue is so important, the business voice, large | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
and small, is very much in favour of Britain staying. Many of them have | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
said generous things about this renegotiation because they recognise | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
the dangers, particularly in the area of safeguarding ourselves | :35:53. | :35:54. | |
against distillation, because we aren't in the Euro, given that I | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
hope business and enterprise will speak clearly in the next few | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
months. Much of the protection of the Euro outs in this is set out. | :36:03. | :36:11. | |
But this requires nothing, as far as I can tell, nothing more than the | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
discussion to be held about the UK's concerns. Not even European Council. | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
It leaves Eurozone members free to enforce its will bike UMT. So, can | :36:22. | :36:28. | |
the Prime Minister explain what beyond the discussion, which can be | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
ignored, has been achieved by the safeguard mechanism -- QMV. I can | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
answer that, is an important question. There are two things, it | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
is a set of principles set out on section A on economic governance, | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
these principles of non-discrimination, no cost, no | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
disadvantage, and crucially in paragraph four, a real concern to | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
the Bank of England, I know it will be a concern to his committee, is | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
making clear that the financial stability of member states whose | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
currency is not the Euro is matter for their own authorities and | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
budgetary responsibilities. These principles are very important. What | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
I think is exciting is that not only have these been setup for the first | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
time, not only has Europe accepted for the first time that there are | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
other currencies in the EU but these changes will be incorporated into | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
the treaties. The mechanism, if you like, is over and above new way of | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
making sure issues are raised, should we want to, at the level of | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
the European Council, a protection we don't have today, but I think | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
making the treaty, making the principle is part of the treaty, | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
already an international legally binding decision, is hugely | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
important and people on behalf of financial services and the Bank of | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
England and others, they will recognise this is important progress | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
for Britain. There is still plenty that divides myself and the Prime | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
Minister politically, but on this, in the national interest, I think | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
he's right to be campaigning for Britain to remain in the European | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
Union. I want to put a quote to him, leaving would cause at least some | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
business uncertainty, while embroiling the government for | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
several years in a fiddly process of negotiating new arrangements. So | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
diverging energy from the real problems of this country, that was | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
on February the 7th. The Mayor of London was right to seven days ago, | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
wasn't he? What I would say to the honourable gentleman and everyone is | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
that we have really got to examine what these alternatives are, and how | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
much uncertainty there would be, how long these processes would take. I | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
think therein lies the importance of this decision, for businesses, | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
families, people's prospects as well up and down the country. Does the | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
promised a group of me that one of the key benefits of his agreement is | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
to give legal clarity about Britain's special status within the | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
EU? You would be aware of the uncertainties that have been for | :39:02. | :39:03. | |
those advising the government about the law in the past, does he also | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
agree that it is wrong to say that it is not legally binding, it is. | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
And it is irreversible, unless we choose otherwise. There is a long | :39:15. | :39:22. | |
opinion by Professor Sir Alan Dashwood, the leading EU | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
constitutional lawyer in this country, it can be read on the | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
Henderson Chambers website. I'm grateful for what my right | :39:34. | :39:35. | |
honourable friend says given that he was a senior law officer in the | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
government. I listen carefully to what the member for Beaconsfield has | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
said, they could not have been more clear on this point, I've read the | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
judgment by Lord Dashwood and the government 's own legal advice. They | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
say it is legally binding and reversible. People who question it | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
should look at the Danish protocol, that's been working well for 23 | :39:59. | :40:06. | |
years. Does the Prime Minister share my concerns and worries that after | :40:07. | :40:13. | |
70 years of peace and prosperity, any nation begins to take it rather | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
for granted, and take the institutions that created that peace | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
and prosperity? I was born on the August weekend in London at the | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
height of the Battle of Britain. My generation, and many people in this | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
country with longer memories, note that peace and prosperity aren't | :40:39. | :40:41. | |
guaranteed, unless you work together across Europe to maintain them day | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
after day, month after month, year after year. I agree with the | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
honourable gentleman, it is worth remembering why this came about in | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
the first place. The appalling bloodshed on our continent. For | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
people of my generation, very much postwar children, we should remember | :40:58. | :41:04. | |
that and look afresh at the institutions of the EU, and try to | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
make sure that this organisation works for this century, rather than | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
the last century. That's part of what the agreement is about. I | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
remember the meeting we once had at the Cloth Hall in Ypres, you cannot | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
sit in that building without thinking of the slaughter that | :41:24. | :41:25. | |
European countries have engaged in in the past. May I to salute my | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
right honourable friend for honouring his commitment to the | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
British people, to offer them a referendum? And extraordinary | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
stamina over the last week or so, where we've been to join the recess. | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
For me, this is not the fundamental reform we were promised. We've | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
learned a lot about security in the last few weeks, would he not agree | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
with me that the security of Europe is dependent on Nato, not the EU? It | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
is Nato that is protecting us from further incursion by President | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
Putin, and we do Nato no good by suggesting that somehow the EU has | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
some competence in this area? I have huge respect for my right honourable | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
friend, he served brilliantly in the last garment helping to strengthen | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
defences, perhaps ten or 15 years ago, -- government. Whether it is | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
our partnership with America, not the EU, considering defence and | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
security in the run today, the way we fight terrorism yes it depends on | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
our relationships and what we do through the EU. I see it daily | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
through the exchange of information. The agreement we reached at this | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
council, to make sure that there is a strong Nato mission, to try and | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
help the situation between Greece and Turkey, it is a Nato mission | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
backing up his point, but where was some of the conversation going on | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
about it? Where were the Germans, British and French sitting together | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
and working out what assets we could supply? How to get real power into | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
it? It was done around the EU Council table. The fact is we need | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
both to keep safe in the modern world, fight terrorism, criminality, | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
stand up to evil around the world and use all organisations, not just | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
some of them. The Prime Minister has played fast and loose with our | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
cultural, social and economic future in Europe for a consider is -- for a | :43:27. | :43:33. | |
series of concessions. Will the Prime Minister now guarantee that | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
his government's case for remaining in the EU will stop appeasing them, | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
and will instead focus on the many positives of the EU. Can he commit | :43:42. | :43:49. | |
to ensuring that the public has sufficient information to make a | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
positive and informed choice? We have certainly been whiting a | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
positive campaign, and in that there is a series of documents, some were | :43:58. | :44:04. | |
mandated by the other place, when they had a referendum bill, we have | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
two set out rights and obligations of things you get out of, and | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
obligations you have in the EU. We will be talking about the economic | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
case. All of those issues, I would say to those interested in some | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
cultural or educational arguments, come forward to. We need from voices | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
from universities, they have a lot to say on this issue, they get a lot | :44:27. | :44:29. | |
out of Europe. Cultural organisations should be speaking out | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
as well. Nick Herbert. Anti-Mr Speaker, would my right honourable | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
friend agree with me that when this country in our national interest | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
makes an international agreement of any kind, it may involve a loss of | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
sovereignty, that may be the case through any trade deal, through Nato | :44:49. | :44:55. | |
rules, and on the single most important issue that this House of | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
Commons could take, which is whether or not to engage in military action. | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
We are treaty bound by Nato to go to the defence under article five of a | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
country, a fellow member, under armed attack. That obliges us, in | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
that sense, we've lost sovereignty. That is because we believe it is in | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
the interests of the country to enter that agreement and has made us | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
safer. If the claim of sovereignty and the loss of sovereignty were the | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
trump card, would it not in fact be the case that all of those | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
international agreements would need to be torn up? I think my right | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
honourable friend makes an important point, if you're only determination | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
was never to seek technical sovereignty committee would never | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
join any organisations or do a trade ill, or be a member of the IMF World | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
Bank -- trade deal. The question is what maximises power, influence and | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
ability to get things done. As the Transport Secretary put brilliantly | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
in the cabinet meeting, I would love to live in Utopia, but I expect the | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
EU is that as well. You don't abolish the EU by leaving it, you | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
simply cut yourself off from something, and therefore, possibly | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
make yourself less powerful rather than more powerful. May I gently | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
remind the house that people who wish to take part in the exchanges | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
should have been here at the start, and remain throughout. People who | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
have gone in and out of the chamber and may have come back in again | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
should not then be standing. That's pretty much in breach of traditions | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
of the house. We must be clear on that. Mr Ronnie Campbell. The main | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
policy for me was a close political union. If this could be voted to | :46:42. | :46:52. | |
upstate -- stay in the union on the 23rd, could we put it to a treaty, | :46:53. | :47:00. | |
be written into a treaty? It is already an agreement and will | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
shortly be deposited at the UN as an international law decision, and | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
therefore it would already be, by then, legally binding and | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
irreversible. When it comes to getting out of an ever closer union | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
and redefining a closer union, I think it is so important it has to | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
go into the treaties. The agreement here is when those treaties change | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
they will be written into those treaties. If you like, there's a | :47:26. | :47:31. | |
double lock on this. A vital point. John Baron? I suspect this is | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
tinkering, it is not fundamental change, the red card is not a veto, | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
it won't stop a majority of the EU in forcing unwanted taxes. Should | :47:41. | :47:49. | |
the Prime Minister accept the possibility that the red card can be | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
turned against us? It could not stop, or it would stop, rather, UK | :47:55. | :48:01. | |
sponsored initiatives being blocked by the majority of the EU, | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
initiatives that could be in our best interests, like access and | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
further enhancement of the single market? Look, I don't overstate the | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
red card, what it is is a new mechanism not to delay but properly | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
block new initiatives available for National Polmont, should they want | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
to avail themselves of it. For me, it's another thing that makes this | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
organisation more democratically applicable to national Polmont is. | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
On some occasions it may work against, I suppose it is | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
accountability. The point is this organisation will be more democratic | :48:44. | :48:45. | |
because of my decision rather than less. | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
Mr Speaker, since the Prime Minister seems to be getting none from his | :48:51. | :48:59. | |
own side, can I commend him from coming right to cancel a Michael | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
version of freedom of movement. Can he assure the House that there'll be | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
no application for the hundreds of thousands of UK citizens living in | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
the EU for this deal? Of course if we stay in the European Union | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
British people will continue to be able to live and work abroad as they | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
do now. It is not for me to set up will happen to them in different | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
circumstances. I think the league campaign will try and address that | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
point. You will know with certainty what they get. In his statement the | :49:33. | :49:40. | |
Prime Minister observed that leaving the EU might briefly make us feel | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
more sovereign, does he not accept that the issue of parliamentary | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
sovereignty will be the centre of that central one for parliamentary | :49:49. | :49:55. | |
debate. So long as we're subject to the European Union we will not be | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
truly sovereign and erode very little change last week in that | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
respect. I think would change the last weekend in that respect is that | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
because we're getting out of ever closing union we now know that we | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
cannot be forced into folder public again good union against our will. | :50:15. | :50:17. | |
On this issue of sovereignty I will repeat again, if you leave the EU | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
you might feel more sovereign because you could pass this law or | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
pass that law, but on the other hand if you still want to set into Europe | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
you have to meet all the rules under which you have say. That is a | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
diminution of sovereignty rather than increase of sovereignty. On the | :50:34. | :50:42. | |
issue of sovereignty, has been reported in several news media | :50:43. | :50:45. | |
organizations that the Prime Minister intends to unveil a British | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
sovereignty bill in the next few days. Will he confirm that that is | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
the case and if so will he tell us what provision he is going to make | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
in that bill to recognise the principle of unlimited sovereignty | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
in parliament and the distinctively English principal which has no | :51:01. | :51:08. | |
counterpart to Scott a scattered -- constitutional law? We will build a | :51:09. | :51:18. | |
2011 when we set out that our limited sovereign. Just as they can | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
join the year they can join the -- Olevia. That is the good for the | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
whole of the United Kingdom. We do have a sovereign parliament. I do | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
think there are ways we can add to that. As other countries have done, | :51:32. | :51:38. | |
I look for to bringing proposals forward in the coming day. On Friday | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
two and a half thousand people packed the QE Center to see the goal | :51:44. | :51:53. | |
launch national cross party leaf campaign, many speakers were there, | :51:54. | :52:01. | |
including a renowned economic commentator, a senior trade | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
unionist, and very respected Labour in Pete, the co-chairman of | :52:07. | :52:12. | |
conservatives for Britain, for conservative MPs, and the leader of | :52:13. | :52:23. | |
respect. In 2014, Bruce Davidson our excellent conservative leader in | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
Scotland, linked arms with George Galloway in the national interest. | :52:28. | :52:34. | |
Does the Prime Minister agree that Ruth Davidson was right and does he | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
agree that sometimes you have to work with people you do not like? | :52:38. | :52:42. | |
Everyone will have to make the choice about what platform they | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
appear on and who they appear on those platforms with. I think the | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
disadvantage of appearing on any platform with either Nigel The | :52:54. | :52:59. | |
Mirage or George Galloway is what I consider who their friends are. , | :53:00. | :53:06. | |
this is going to be something everyone will have to think | :53:07. | :53:15. | |
carefully about when they to appear. There has been a lot of talk about | :53:16. | :53:21. | |
the City of London and big multilateral companies working here | :53:22. | :53:23. | |
and investing in this country. The beating heart of our economy and the | :53:24. | :53:31. | |
small and medium enterprise sector. As India's exports to EU countries. | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
As the Prime Minister agree that it would be madness to slam the door in | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
their face. I think the overwhelming majority of SNAs... There are many | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
companies that are not exporters but are involved in the supply chain | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
with companies that do export. This is a point that the business | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
services organizations, banks accountants and lawyers make. I | :53:58. | :54:07. | |
would like to also think my right noble friend the Prime Minister, and | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
all routable members of this house who voted for us to have a | :54:14. | :54:19. | |
referendum on our EU membership. Can you promise to say whether the remit | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
he has reached alters the Lisbon Treaty at all? Obviously it does, | :54:26. | :54:28. | |
would we change these treaties this'll be of the founding documents | :54:29. | :54:37. | |
of the EU. In time the treaty changes will sit alongside the other | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
treaties that have been produced in the past. Like him, I regret the | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
fact that so many treaties were passed with so many Democratic | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
accountability -- so little. A distant dream for many of us who | :54:53. | :55:01. | |
used to argue this never got it. The Prime Minister has stated that | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
people who vote to leave the EU do not love their country. I represent | :55:09. | :55:17. | |
many veterans of the armed services who is cannot be questioned. What he | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
Prime Minister apologise to the people? I absolutely did not say | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
that. I said that I love my country and I think our country will be | :55:28. | :55:35. | |
greater and more powerful but we remain a organizations through which | :55:36. | :55:37. | |
we can project our power and influence and do great things in the | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
world. I did not question the patriotism of anyone in our country. | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
We're going to have to make a choice. I think part of Britain's | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
greatness is not just the right we have this country, but we are not in | :55:52. | :55:58. | |
doubt looking country. I'm very proud that we help during refugees, | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
and help stabilise countries from which so many problems come. We do | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
this because we are strong, but also because we are members of Nato, we | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
are a permanent seat of the UN, and part of the EU. We should be proud | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
of the world that we play in the world. -- role. If these | :56:21. | :56:30. | |
negotiations did not succeed, and he would have no hesitation even | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
recommending that we leave the European Union. Can he have in the | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
library papers which cover contingency plans which would take | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
place in that eventuality. What he confirm that in that circumstance | :56:44. | :56:46. | |
exactly the same leap in the dark what have to be made by him as he is | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
now vilified? What I would say to my Honorable friend and I have great | :56:52. | :56:58. | |
respect for him because he is held his views for many years, and I | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
would hope he will respect my views. In terms of the documentation we're | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
going to be publishing something about the alternatives to | :57:09. | :57:11. | |
demonstrate what we believe they are you demonstrate that we are thinking | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
about what would need to happen with that eventuality to come about. In | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
terms of what we achieved, I'm very happy to write to him with a list of | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
things that we said in our manifesto. We achieve in this new | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
renegotiation. Consequent to say that I'm going to take a different | :57:30. | :57:32. | |
path from you, I'm going to make my own decision. Somehow we have not | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
delivered the overt whelming On at the Prime Minister can tell | :57:37. | :57:47. | |
the House whether he thinks rural communities and present would be | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
better our worst thing in the EU. I represent rural communities, 400 | :57:54. | :57:56. | |
square miles of beautiful West Oxfordshire. There'll be a range of | :57:57. | :58:02. | |
views in my constituency by no one I talked to many of those responsible | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
for producing food and for looking after our local environment, that | :58:09. | :58:10. | |
they see strong advantages of fermenting. -- of remaining. Though | :58:11. | :58:18. | |
the parameters are agreed and negotiated a special status till, | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
the actual demonstrations of sovereignty at his best? -- special | :58:23. | :58:31. | |
status till. Safer and more economic prosperous and a manifest itself in | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
many aspects of the deal, but also the way in which we behave as a | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
nation state within the European Union and the future. What I would | :58:39. | :58:46. | |
say is I think it demonstrates that while this organisation is imperfect | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
and sometimes campy and flexible, they did show flexibility. One | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
country came along with a manifest in place renegotiate its position | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
with a set of changes and by large we have achieved them. I think that | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
a sign that this organisation can be flexible IP that is incredibly | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
important. If he did not achieve any of this, I would really have deep | :59:09. | :59:11. | |
questions about whether the stay in an organisation like this. But they | :59:12. | :59:17. | |
demonstrate it looks ability. -- demonstrated flexibility. I'm proud | :59:18. | :59:24. | |
of Northern Ireland in his place in the world as a global trader. And I | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
know we benefit a great deal from the EU at the moment. With a mind | :59:31. | :59:33. | |
that promised or made it clear what the benefits are to us on our | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
borders, our farmers, are fishermen, and all the people there that really | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
relied on international trade? I look forward to coming there to make | :59:44. | :59:50. | |
a point. -- those point. We look at the sad that they have been given in | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
terms of final grants, -- Arlen that they have. If you look at what we | :59:56. | :00:02. | |
have reformed heredity, agricultural policies, more to be done. I think | :00:03. | :00:07. | |
money goes into another I lived through those programmes and I'm | :00:08. | :00:09. | |
happy to come and talk about all those things in the province. | :00:10. | :00:18. | |
Will actually be changed to incorporate our changes and perhaps | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
to allow greater integration of the eurozone, required for the | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
referendum in the UK or not? That require a future referendum. The | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
eurozone members were to bring forward treaty changes to change the | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
nature of the eurozone, but without effecting any weight competences | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
here in Britain. Then I suspect we'll be up to get our changes on | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
ever closer union, on the governments surrounding the | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
eurozone, and to the treaty. Whether it require never referendum depends | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
on whether it goes to Brussels. If the answer is yes, you have to have | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
a referendum. If the answer is no, you don't. And as statement, the | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
Prime Minister said responsibility for supervising the stability of the | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
UK will always remain in the hands of the Bank of England. -- in his | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
statement. But we already share that responsibility. With the European | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
banking authorities and we already signed up to the single will book | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
about RT. Out of the Prime Minister statement compatible with the view | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
of Mr, the head of the European banking authority, who says that the | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
institution must be the dominant player in Santa Cruz, particularly | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
in Britain wishes to keep the town and state within a single European | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
financial regulation. The assets of this question requires something | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
like 35 hours of negotiation. -- the answer to this question. Of course | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
you have the backing union arrangement. And for the kill zone | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
countries, they need to have their banks properly scrutinised and | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
regulated at a guilty level. We have our own currency, our on banking | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
supervision arrangement. It is hard to supervise a complex and larger | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
economy like Britain, with one of the largest financial centres | :02:23. | :02:24. | |
anywhere and well, it is not just banks that are systemically | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
important, it is also other financial institutions. Central | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
counterparties, and why this is important is because at the end of | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
the day, we need to make sure that whatever is the eurozone does, we | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
are protected in terms of the Bank of England playing the role of being | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
to intervene to resolve and to supervise those important | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
institution. That's what paragraph four is it about. Although that | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
sounds very technical, it is fantastically important because it | :02:53. | :03:01. | |
Britain -- it Britain, it would have to and a zero best organisation | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
where the eurozone is a large currency, and we can have variables, | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
there would be a case for saying long-term, this is a single currency | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
only organisation independently. This was crucial to get that | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
settled, technical, but at and fundamentally important what we can | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
get fair treatment inside this organisation. The answer is yes, we | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
can. And it's great exercise of democracy, it is not what we say of | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
the house, but what are constituents decide. My constituency but many | :03:34. | :03:35. | |
will be interested in the things that affect them. The economic | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
production of the jobs of the Bar-B-Q can bring in a single trade, | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
so they don't want the euro, they don't want the euro superstate and | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
something for nothing and welfare. The diamonds are confirmed to my | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
constituents in a bubble the country that what he is negotiated. -- can | :03:55. | :04:02. | |
Minister confirm. I don't know if I make it too one with a cold, but I | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
hope to make it to many parts of our country to make the point. -- | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
Wimbledon. We have not solved all the problems, but we have | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
fundamentally addressed the major that Britain had. Too much original | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
currency club, too much regulation, too much of a politically | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
convenient, and not national determination of free moment abuse | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
and welfare. I think those four pinnacles of the heart of the | :04:28. | :04:29. | |
problems we've had with this organisation. -- principles. | :04:30. | :04:40. | |
The diamonds are going to welcome the support that he has received to | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
date on the surprise element surviving area of the Deputy First | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
Minister of Northern Ireland? -- if the Minister. Or is he going to | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
encourage the people of the stay in tune with his Secretary of State for | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
Northern Ireland, who has indicated their strong click in tune with the | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
people of Northern Ireland that they should leave, and if he is not going | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
to support the Secretary of State, will he didn't be following the | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
advice of the Deputy First Minister that the Secretary of State said the | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
bond. Will he not support the Secretary of State? The secondary | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
state of an excellent job. She is exercising her decision for Britain | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
to leave the queue. That's Secretary of State. I think the key thing is | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
that an aromatic and other Alice up their mind, based on the evidence. I | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
look forward to forward to coming to try and help persuade them to remain | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
in a reformed EU. The Prime Minister accept that the thousands of Sun | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
Microsystems, the hundreds of thousands of mothers, and methods | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
across the UK to work in the financial services will be glad that | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
he at least argues that jobs in as the Leader of the Opposition appears | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
to the best some? And we recognise that the covenant package is an | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
important one for strategic British interests, and therefore the | :06:09. | :06:09. | |
pragmatic investors businesslike thing is not to walk away from a | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
market, but to stay in it, and make it work better? We should recognise, | :06:15. | :06:25. | |
something like an making jobs in finance, I think, so making jobs in | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
mid-December become. The key point is because we are in the single | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
market, we have the right to passport to have a bag or financial | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
services company here Britain back and trade throughout the EU. The | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
dissent of market and you lose that right. But within have to happen is | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
companies based in the UK would have to move at least some of the jobs to | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
admit European country. That is why HSBC said they would lose 8000 jobs. | :06:52. | :07:00. | |
This is real jobs. -- 1000 jobs. Need to explain this, it is | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
compensated, but there is no doubt in my mind that living the single | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
market financial services would mean less jobs Britain. It was the | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
assistant ahead of time as still used the word evolved in connection | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
-- devolved in connection. Clever I personally will be voting | :07:19. | :07:34. | |
to stay in the EU, and I will have the Prime Minister to give it to | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
others. The diamonds are assets in a good deal, why the struggling to | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
convince somebody in his own party? -- the Minister. Some people are | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
long-standing feuds about wanting to leave the EU. The point I was making | :07:47. | :07:55. | |
about starting the worst percentage, no doubt that but for some people | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
seem to be suggesting. I just about money, but some how did you start | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
the process of leaving, you'll get offered a better that the state. I | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
think that is not the case. You could think about it like this, | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
you're not just divorcing one person, you are divorcing 27, | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
potentially unhappy partners. I give to no one in my belief, that I can | :08:17. | :08:24. | |
bring people back, I have seen Buffalo wedding Set plays. -- I'd | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
kill to know. Resulting in another word. -- multiple weddings. May I | :08:30. | :08:38. | |
join other members in congratulating the Prime Minister for this work in | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
Brussels last week. I do agree that this reform does produce a | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
phenomenal chains and British accumulations -- phenomenal chains | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
and British, EU lesson. It does a lot of young people would jet at the | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
possibility of entering into a new turmoil within the economy. -- young | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
people with the dread. We agreed that it is vital to Britain 's | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
economy that will remain inside the European Union? -- we were made. | :09:12. | :09:20. | |
They have a strong question this campaign would have been through | :09:21. | :09:22. | |
difficult times. The time of uncertainty, why had extra risk? -- | :09:23. | :09:32. | |
in a time of uncertainty. And Britain's strategic interest to be | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
pretty intimately engaged in the doings of a continent that has a | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
gram 20th-century history, and whose alchemy have cost millions of | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
Britons to lose their lives. That the best way of staying pretty | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
engaged is to remain a member of the European Union. I agree with that. | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
If we leave the EU, and do not cease to exist, but was seized element | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
contains that an impact on our lives. And on our world. It is best | :09:58. | :10:06. | |
to try to offer from within. Sure questions are not required. Were | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
having answers, but we need short answer. Can we ensure that the | :10:10. | :10:19. | |
information in the campaign is actually correct? As he was a go at | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
letter and the telegraph and the male appeared in criticising the | :10:25. | :10:33. | |
Prime Minister. -- a week ago. The Prime Minister, no one ever heard of | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
that person. Can we please ask that information before by both sides is | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
fair, accurate, Achterberg sold the public can decide on further | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
evidence? Dass and correct. We're producing a number of documents them | :10:48. | :10:56. | |
as -- information is accurate. Can ask the premises to read at a rate | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
was at the heart of this matter, if the UK left the EU, who was almost | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
having to continue to implement the vast majority of the EU roles and | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
write what is at the heart of this matter, if the UK left the EU, who | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
was almost having to continue to implement the vast majority of the | :11:11. | :11:12. | |
EU roles in relation everyone to access the same terms of the single | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
market. The only difference would be doing a lot of good essay about | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
terms sappy love I had a lot of conversations within a original | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
about this. If you do, you implement the directives but have no say over | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
how they are put in place. For the first time in my lifetime, people | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
and words are what I have a jingle and say on this. That's a legitimate | :11:36. | :11:49. | |
say on this. In 2010 manifesto, we said we would bring and eight UK | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
sovereignty bill to assert sovereignty of our country and make | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
sure it was this Parliament that take. We agree that sovereignty is | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
something that can be asserted by this house and not something for us | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
to argue about? Would introduce, the sovereignty clause in the 2011 | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
referendum. -- we did introduce. When looking to add to it in the | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
proposals. That's what I look into. Many mike assiduous work and the | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
Lutton, cannot buckle with the said today. That's many of my | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
constituents. Accessed the largest single market, given that, and | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
offered appointments are a plus and a parliament opportunity to campaign | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
in my constituency on this issue? Cannot also given that there are | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
those that would love to get their hands on Britain's services, and the | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
Maryland and has given of his day job to think about is that Shaw, | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
connect the Prime Minister and very clear message that London is | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
stronger in Europe? -- the Mayor of London. I would be delighted to come | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
to his constituency. I think he is right, when it comes to the Mac DK's | :13:06. | :13:15. | |
membership is of strategic importance to the financial and | :13:16. | :13:27. | |
related services. -- UK's. These organisations covering finance, | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
insurance, manufacturing, engineering, they are all negative | :13:32. | :13:33. | |
views clear enough that we should listen to them. -- they are all | :13:34. | :13:43. | |
making their views. Investment in the country has gone up to the West | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
Midlands is gone. But he agree with me that full access to the single | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
market, which focuses on jobs and growth, is critical to the security | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
a jobs and people in my constituency and across the West Midlands? We | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
have seen an industrial renaissance of the West Midlands with more | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
people in part of the crowd and the automotive sector. The centres are | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
part of complex supply chains right across Europe. He'll be huge | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
dislocation if we were to leave. -- and it would be a huge. Access to | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
labor, protection of workers rights, protection of human rights in some | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
of the benefits to our membership of the EU. Beneficial to work and | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
businesses. It must perturb arm and said that his Justice Secretary, and | :14:32. | :14:40. | |
employment Minister, how will he assure that those positive reasons | :14:41. | :14:42. | |
for remaining are the forefront of campaign? Grabbed a wooden issue | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
that has caused the and differences with parties right across his house. | :14:49. | :14:56. | |
-- we are are dealing with issues. With CC, is 23 people sitting around | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
the Cabinet table, convinced that we should be better off within the EU, | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
and said that attacking a different view. I doubt that we should be | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
concerned. This is a referendum, the people's choice, not the | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
politician's towards. Does he agree that now is the time? We are no | :15:15. | :15:21. | |
longer an imperial power? Able to demand what we want to get of living | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
fragile and volatile world and all senses of those terms. It is not a | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
membership above the EU, together with the United Nations, with essay | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
on the security council, our membership of Nato, I do platform | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
for us to promote Britain here and abroad and that is why we should be | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
staying? Membership of these organisations helps us to get things | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
done for our people, country, and also made progress on the issues we | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
care about. -- make progress. I think the prominence it deserves | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
credit for the deal. -- Prime Minister. The campaign the honour | :16:04. | :16:10. | |
was a state where they would look like. I think it is, not him -- | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
incumbent on him to tell us what a lead balloon flight. Any say that | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
can be saved what will it believes will look like and what state will | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
look like and what stable of my? We will do is have a government setting | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
out what we believe the often bizarre. There is the Swiss model | :16:30. | :16:36. | |
that took nine years to negotiate. There's a Norwegian model, the WT of | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
option we could face tariffs every time you try to sell the EU. The | :16:41. | :16:47. | |
Canada free trade deal, did get. But there it not cover all services, so | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
you could be disadvantaged. We need to need to go to detail in the | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
cities these input accurate, information and place so that people | :16:55. | :17:01. | |
can see what is on offer. Other comments and agree that critical to | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
the success of his campaign is going to be his ability to convince people | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
that by giving us some sovereignty in prison, we have gained | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
sovereignty interrupt the game authority in general, and can he | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
convince the country that he'll be able to do that? This will be the | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
challenge of the comment once. -- coming months. I have no self is | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
interested that. I will tell as see it. What I have learned of the six | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
years of things Prime Minister, this organisation is imperfect and can | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
sometimes be frustrating. But we are better off in. I believe that and | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
I'll take that message the country. -- across the country. People in | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
Scotland are entitled to hear the case for remaining in the EU. But he | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
made the decision on of the parent of the arguments full. The | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
pharmacist will today about the importance of taking express will of | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
the people. That's the prominence there. Would take full account of | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
the view of the bread -- status people and ensure that we both | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
remain, we are not removed from the EU? I don't think I shall afford to | :18:10. | :18:17. | |
that in this message to campaigning in Scotland. I enjoy doing that on | :18:18. | :18:25. | |
the referendum. -- enjoy. I look forward to making this argument | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
again, that would have been altogether. As we are better off. It | :18:29. | :18:36. | |
is able in united kingdom decision. -- it is one. The opposite of always | :18:37. | :18:45. | |
had the domination for the time. If he came back as ever abjured, -- and | :18:46. | :18:52. | |
perhaps a cure, the biggest questions I have a my constituents | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
are what are the positive and wish you would the deal -- voted on. It | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
houses has a cicada, the military and also make the point that | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
sovereignty cannot be more sovereign than 46 million people don't have | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
their say. That which is not talk about the potential benefits of free | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
trade, but there are some very simple practical benefits. -- not | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
only talk about. Because open skies, prices are going on holidays and | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
taking a flight anywhere a girl will come down something like 40%. And | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
when you travel, you'll be able to access to digital content on | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
Arafat's fast they can watch whatever you want. Wherever you are | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
God. -- so you can watch whatever. That's wherever you are. Many of my | :19:46. | :19:54. | |
constituents are somewhat too for their hugely concerned about the | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
future the cat. Can the prominence it say what they believe the UK | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
still in the street by the brunt brighter future if we were managing | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
your abortive relief? -- UK steel industry. | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
The point I would make is however difficult it is, they would have a | :20:14. | :20:21. | |
better chance of dealing with Chinese overcapacity and dumping and | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
all of it if we work as the biggest market in the world, to 500 million | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
people. We can get some things done, the fifth-largest economy, but it is | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
part of a 500 Megan, I think we can get more action. -- 500 million. A | :20:36. | :20:43. | |
number of unemployed, somatic constituents has fallen by 80%. Will | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
the Prime Minister agree with me to leave the EU now the so much | :20:48. | :20:59. | |
uncertainty would risk a reversal? I think there is a simple point here, | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
which is we live in uncertain times, we make good progress on the | :21:04. | :21:06. | |
economy, and we should try to take the risk of weight from the economic | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
performance, and clearly tended our status with the risk. -- changing | :21:12. | :21:20. | |
our status. We have been enriched by freedom moment with corporations, | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
and will remain relevant in global because of that seed we have in the | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
European Union. All of which -- because of the seed. With that in | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
mind, will the prominence or for some punch into a positive fight to | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
remain incurable because when a front iPhone it it it was this | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
conservative Prime Minister who listed to the Scottish national | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
party who say Britain from his cell phone? -- say Britain from itself. | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
There is for the part of his campaign and it will be positive. | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
But I make no apologies that and making a positive campaign about | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
jobs, and about business, and competitiveness, let's also examined | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
the alternative. There's nothing wrong with doing that. As a member | :22:03. | :22:10. | |
of the Neto, I has sent Nato operations around the world. That | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
has. Does he agree with me that it's actually the 28 member nations of | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
Nato, including non-EQ countries, like Norway, Turkey, Iceland, the | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
United States and Canada, that is delivering our international | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
security, but not an EU army? We don't want a EU army, and this | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
document could really says that clearly said that our national | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
security is a reserved matter for nation states. I think when you look | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
in detail for what both Nato and the EU is done off the coast of Somalia, | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
what is happening in the Mediterranean, what is Nato and the | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
ease, the EU and the south, you need to be about these organisations. | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
That should be involved of these. The Cantonment membership of the EU | :23:00. | :23:13. | |
has been a force for good for trade, jobs, investments and international | :23:14. | :23:24. | |
cooperation. -- the UK. The promoter prosperity and kept up at the | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
ravages of two world wars. With a common set agreed that those who are | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
campaigning so aggressively, to reject his negotiations, took a | :23:34. | :23:35. | |
prison blues in the modern world are not only on the wrong side of the | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
big argument on history as well? -- to cut Britain loose and the modern. | :23:41. | :23:48. | |
I think there is a showcase for saying when we try to cut ourselves | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
off, it ended in disaster and the need to re-engage at the end of | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
that. We should always work to get our engagements fright wigs this | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
deal is all about. -- engagement right which this deal. I'm standing | :24:03. | :24:09. | |
at the side of the Prime Minister of this one. The promise as a hosted by | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
me and my people and Morgan. In my constituency, we have the port which | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
is 10% of our GDP going through it. Both from Northern Ireland. Also we | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
have the ESP power stations, two nuclear stations. Which is the | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
French government's sponsor. I want to see jobs lost in my constituency, | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
especially as it has the lowest unemployment rate at this moment in | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
time seen in generations. Would my friend agree with me on that | :24:37. | :24:44. | |
synopsis? I agree that in the end, this is about jobs and livelihoods | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
and I think that he stands up very well for his constituents. I | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
remember visiting where we were looking at the Lake Road and I | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
haven't ever everything into one fabric. I just hope it survives. -- | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
hammered into the bridge. Following his indication, that a series of | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
documents would be published in relation to the foreign proposals, | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
and on the 3rd of February, the Prime Minister referred to the | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
impact of the free movement of people within Ireland and the | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
removal of that street moment. If in the event of an exit, can the Prime | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
Minister confirm Windows documents will be made available, so that we | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
will be able to have a full and robust discussion, as people who | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
want to remain within the European Union? I did the days of Windows | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
will be published, but I will try to make sure -- it does not have the | :25:48. | :25:55. | |
dates. Within the border another island, and the issue of the | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
movement of people that can be triggered by that. -- Northern | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
Ireland. One word that seems to come up around the report of the summit | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
was contagion, as of other say following his lead with be a bad | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
thing. But he agree that contagion could be a good thing and something | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
that we should encourage? The 1-size-fits-all Europe is now a | :26:17. | :26:23. | |
thing of the past. And we have now set a league which has several | :26:24. | :26:30. | |
forms. -- Stanley. You're one of her work if we tried to make everybody | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
1-size-fits-all as a country like Britain raises concerns and I'm glad | :26:35. | :26:42. | |
to have been. -- to happen. Among the UK citizens living in the | :26:43. | :26:50. | |
European Union, approximately 30,000 of them are claiming benefits in | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
those European countries. How the Prime Minister package affect them? | :26:54. | :27:01. | |
But we have negotiated is a welfare mechanism that the European | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
Commission have said applies to present. So now we're able to pull | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
this emergency brake and restrict benefits for seven years. It is up | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
by other countries to determine whether they qualify and whether | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
they are able to do that, but I'm in no doubt applies right-of-way in the | :27:18. | :27:20. | |
UK, which is what I was determined to secure. The Prime Minister will | :27:21. | :27:28. | |
be aware that we have partners and militarize outside of the EU. That | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
heavily represented -- representations... As to whether | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
they see better inside the EU or outside the. I all the conversations | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
I've had, from our partners, our neighbours, countries that look to | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
us as friends around the world, and I've been quite surprised by how | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
unanimous and passionate to have been. Any sense that for instance, | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
some of the countries of the Commonwealth might want Britain to | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
step back from Europe and form some sort of new relationship with them, | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
I would totally disabuse people of that idea. The Prime Minister of New | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
Zealand, Canada, Australia, they cannot be more clear, the president | :28:06. | :28:11. | |
of America about to give Britain should stay in a reformed European | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
Union. In that way, they should looking out for them to sign | :28:17. | :28:27. | |
Europe will continue to boost our commitments to watch military in | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
case we have seen the last years. Last year and last summer there were | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
attempts made to link those cases to membership of the European Union. | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
Can the Prime Minister give us an assurance that the both of what | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
happens this will be based solely on humanitarian necessity and as to how | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
it will impact? Of course will do what is right. But I think it is | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
important to address in the context of our membership this issue of | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
migration. I make a number of points. One is that obviously | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
outside Schengen and so that people coming to the EU don't have | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
automatic right to come to Britain. Second I make the point that we are | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
doing a very responsible thing in taking refugees direct from the | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
region. Third we are working with our European partners to secure the | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
external border. At the end of the day whether we are in the EU or out | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
of the EU, we are affected by this problem in Europe. So we should be | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
working with our partners to make sure that they can better control | :29:35. | :29:36. | |
and stop in some cases the flow of and stop in some cases the flow of | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
people to Europe. Some argue that we will be able to forge a better deals | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
across the world by leaving the European Union. In the three years I | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
have been a trade and what, I have not yet met a single representation | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
that believed our trade investment would be better if we left the EU. | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
Does my right honourable friend. LAUGHTER. Does my right honourable | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
friend agree with me that the referendum is not about whether we | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
should do business with your for the rest of the world, but that we | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
should get the treat free trade agreement and always prioritise the | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
EU. We are expanding our trade inside easy Asia. We have doubled | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
our trade with China. I am very shocked that he used that countries | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
have not said that they want to get out of a trade deal with us. They | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
are saying to state within the EU and that the EU will be bigger and | :30:33. | :30:44. | |
better. The Prime Minister maximises the case. I am trying to confirm | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
rumours that he has been exploiting the situation to his own self | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
interests. He has opened a private book on his successor. Can the Prime | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
Minister confirm this can he give up the claim of where the money is | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
flowing and will he guaranteed to extend the syndicate to the rest of | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
us. LAUGHTER. My father was an gambler and I remember sitting on a | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
Saturday watching him betting on race after race. While I enjoyed all | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
that pulled, I have always tried to stay away from it myself. So I am | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
not writing a book. All I know is that I will do the right thing for | :31:22. | :31:24. | |
this country and the right thing for this country is to read -- remained | :31:25. | :31:33. | |
in the reformed EU. Agreement. The mood is that today they could cut | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
Britain's credit rating. This and let the UK manages to negotiate new | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
trade arrangement with the EU, that deserves at least some of the trade | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
benefits, the exports will suffer and go on to uncertainty in negative | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
investment. Is that a fear or warning from the world. There are | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
important economic consequences that we do need to so people can see all | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
the potential downsides and what they are. This is what I think it's | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
a leap in the dark. How long it would take to put trade deals in | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
place and how damaging that could be. It would be irresponsible to put | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
in front of the British people with the consequences of the changes are. | :32:17. | :32:29. | |
Hear, hear!. Mr Speaker that disbursements of car payments. | :32:30. | :32:39. | |
Convergence of less in the EU pervaded the UK which is actually | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
based on the payments that the farmers received. That would make it | :32:43. | :32:51. | |
much easier for farmers. I'll look carefully at what the Honorable | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
general is that. My memory of the camp deal and the finance deal are | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
the consequences whether we gave a huge amount of leeway to the | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
devolved administrations to determine the right way to spend the | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
money and actually farmers benefit from the way this is done. But I | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
will look very carefully at the point he makes. Speaking I think the | :33:13. | :33:21. | |
Prime Minister for all his for all his work on behalf of our country | :33:22. | :33:24. | |
over the last months and years. Exports to China to Germany from the | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
UK as shown in significant increases. Does not this showed that | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
the opportunities for trade outside the EU are not what some would a | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
constraint by membership of the EU. You don't is that your trade with | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
China by doing listed with the EU. He's absolutely right. Last year | :33:45. | :33:53. | |
every single colleague on this side of the House stood successfully | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
under the leadership of my right honourable friend the one niche and | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
conservative team. Would my right honourable friend agree with me that | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
what ever that use of members on this side of the House, and for that | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
matter I fully support the Prime Minister, what about the abuse and | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
the outcome of the European union referendum, we must unify once again | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
as a party to ensure that you ever our path into the 2020 election does | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
not allow accidentally Jeremy Quarterman and his Labour | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
colleagues. I agree this is always going to be a difficult process went | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
in the Labour Party as well as in the Conservative Party there are | :34:35. | :34:36. | |
people on both sides of the debate. I think this is such a big question | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
and questions that will be answered ultimately by people rather than | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
politicians. We should all be big enough to have an honest but open | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
and polite disagreement and then come back together afterwards. I | :34:48. | :34:58. | |
take the Prime Minister back to an election commitment in 2014 when he | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
and I along with thousands of conservative activists campaigned on | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
a promise to restore control of our borders. The Prime Minister says in | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
that year I will go to Brussels and I will not take no for an answer. | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
When it comes to free movement I will get what Britain needs. What | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
changed last week was like what changed last week is that we are | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
reforming to make sure that we can keep our fraudsters criminals and | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
those peddling sham marriages, make sure we can apply British rules to | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
foreign nationals to European citizens as well. The secretary | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
negotiated incredibly hard knowing this was the one moment we had the | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
ability to make these changes and reversed European court judgements | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
in order that we do reform free movement. This is that what we have | :35:49. | :35:56. | |
done. I thank my Honorable friend for the referendum first of all. He | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
and I fundamentally disagree as he notes. My concerns for immigration | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
which he said he would contain, we have a net migration of about 1000 | :36:05. | :36:14. | |
40,000 at the moment. Every year that is the size of a small city in | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
this country. Surely that is unsustainable and what his position | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
is and will not prevent that from happening. Where I agree with my | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
Honorable friend is that we have to do more to control immigration. We | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
look at the net migration in the UK, it is made up of half and half | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
roughly. Half outside the EU which shows us what we need to do to shut | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
down the bogus colleges to make sure that people are coming unfairly. | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
Would end the EU the most we can do is to withdraw the artificial draw | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
of additional welfare payments. The fact that people can get ?10,000 in | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
the first year they come, surely that is an important determination. | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
I am convinced of the convex measures we can get immigration down | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
and do it while we're waiting is member the European Union. During | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
the general election it was reported that the Prime Minister had | :37:09. | :37:11. | |
expressed some concern about the coverage of the BBC in the election | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
and his impartiality. What assurances can the Prime Minister | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
give me so I can relate that to my constituents that BBC won't abuse | :37:21. | :37:27. | |
its position against? LAUGHTER Politicians complaining about the | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
BBC is a pretty common activity. I remember the former First Minister | :37:33. | :37:34. | |
of Scotland getting quite heated about this issue. Every media | :37:35. | :37:41. | |
organisation is under obligation. Sorry let me restate that. That is | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
not true the newspapers. Every regulated television business is | :37:47. | :37:53. | |
under duty of impartiality. But I'm sure that they will carry that out. | :37:54. | :38:01. | |
I think the Prime Minister and all colleagues and all 103 backbenchers | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
who took part in this important exchange. Before we proceed, I will | :38:06. | :38:13. | |
of course take points of order. Thank you Mr Speaker. I made the | :38:14. | :38:21. | |
office is aware of my attentions. Mr Speaker last week after much delay | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
the long waited reports on the mental health task force was | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
published. On the same government day -- day the government made a | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
series of announcements to the media in response to the report. This is a | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
courtesy that is still yet to be afforded to this house. Mr Speaker | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
this is a vital moment for mental health in England. This is highly | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
regrettable that this report was published during recess preventing | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
members from all sides of this house from scrutinising its findings and | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
questioning the government on the response to it. Can you advise the | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
Mr Speaker or whether you had given any indication from ministers on | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
whether they plan to make a statement on the mental health task | :39:03. | :39:05. | |
force and allow the opportunity to question the government on | :39:06. | :39:12. | |
announcements that they have made? Thanks to Lady for her order and | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
given me a chance to respond to it. Now I have not received an | :39:18. | :39:20. | |
indication that the Minister plans to make a statement on the matter. | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
What I would say provisionally, on the basis of having learned of this | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
matter, only this morning. Significant announcements of changes | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
in policy should be made first to the House. That means save in cases | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
of emergency to the House, while it is sitting. Of course Honorable | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
members and others can and do access to reports, whether or not the rep | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
house is sitting and can pursue their content in debate and in | :39:54. | :40:00. | |
questions. In this case I will cause further inquiries to be made on the | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
content and timing of this particular announcement. Point of | :40:04. | :40:13. | |
order Mr Alberto Costa. Begu Mr Speaker. When referring to | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
parliamentary sovereignty and its affect across the United Kingdom, | :40:20. | :40:26. | |
specifically Mr Speaker I seek your guidance on how the parliamentary | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
sovereignty should applies equally in Scotland as it doesn't in | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
England. This is not within in the 1953 McCormick case of course. Order | :40:37. | :40:45. | |
I say today's of the Honorable gentleman. I am trying to be kind to | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
the Honorable gentleman who is a new member. If the Honorable gentleman | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
wants to raise points of order to argue about the proprieties of | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
parliamentary procedure, perhaps he would learn that in Leader of the | :41:00. | :41:08. | |
Opposition, he should not call him by name. People have really got to | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
be careful of their own sound ground if they start playing the procedural | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
card. Secondly I said very kindly to the honourable gentleman and, whose | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
intellect and eloquence are of course evident to all, LAUGHTER. | :41:23. | :41:32. | |
This does not seem to need to be a matter of a point of appointed | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
order. This is an argument between opposing lawyers. We'll leave it | :41:40. | :41:49. | |
there for now. OK if there are no further points of order, perhaps we | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
can first best proceed with our later business. The court will now | :41:56. | :42:03. | |
read the orders of the The Northern Ireland storm and agreements | :42:04. | :42:15. | |
reading. I call to move the second reading of the bill. The second | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
Terry of state of Northern Ireland. Thank you Mr Speaker. I would like | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
to move that the bill now be read in second time. This gives key elements | :42:26. | :42:32. | |
of the 2015 and the Stormont House Agreement of 20 15. This is an | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
review of implementation of those agreements which taken together have | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
the potential to secure a more peaceful, stable, and prosperous | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
future for Northern Ireland. Before returning to the detail of the | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
causes, I will remind the House of some background to their content. As | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
the House will recall, followed December ten weeks of intensive | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
talks the government along with the Northern Ireland's executive parties | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
and the Irish reach the storm and house agreement on December 23 of | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
2014. That address many of the most mythic and challenges facing | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
Northern Ireland. Some of those such as not standing agreements over | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
flags parading in the past. These were damaging to political | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
relationships within the default is that the tubes. Of these particular | :43:22. | :43:29. | |
what the state of the executives finance and jeopardising the | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
effectiveness and even the continues dependability of the devolution | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
itself. That agreement included proposals to give the executive and | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
workable and sustainable budget, to set a path to which it dissolving | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
contingent issues around lack symbols and parading, to establish | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
new bodies to tackle the legacy of Northern Ireland's past, and to | :43:53. | :43:55. | |
deliver reforms that things will work better. All of this was | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
underpinned by a financial package giving the executives around to | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
billions in actual spending. The Stormont House Agreement was and | :44:05. | :44:13. | |
remains a good deal for Northern Ireland. By last summer it was clear | :44:14. | :44:15. | |
that implementation had stalled. This is largely due to disagreements | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
within the executive team. They also withdrew their support for the | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
welfare reform package. As the stand is off continued this happened in | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
effect in preventing decisions of other elements of the agreement. | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
Sadly the sense of crisis was intensified by to brutal murders in | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
Belfast -- one in May and one in August. This is what again raised | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
the spectre of the malign influence of the paramilitary activity on the | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
streets of Northern Ireland. As we entered last autumn, the political | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
situation was looking increasingly perilous. We face a real prospect | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
that reservations might treble trigger early elections and easily | :45:02. | :45:08. | |
lead to the collapse of the devolved institutions. That would have been a | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
very major setback. After all that has been achieved on the successive | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
governments during the past 20 years. It was an outcome that the | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
government was strenuously and decisively acting to try and avoid. | :45:21. | :45:27. | |
Firstly in a speech in Cambridge on the 5th of September, I make clear | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
that we could not let the financial imparts continued indefinitely. If | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
there was not a resolution to the dispute, we would be left with no | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
option but to legislate for Greece -- welfare reform in Westminster. | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
Secondly on following discussions with my right honourable friend the | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
Prime Minister, it was decided that the time was right to have a second | :45:48. | :45:50. | |
round of cross party talks which began at storm in how on the 8th of | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
December. Once again these included the five largest part of the | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
Northern Ireland Assembly. In accordance with the long established | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
three standard approach to Northern Ireland affairs. The objectives we | :46:06. | :46:12. | |
set ourselves were twofold. To secure the full implementation of | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
the Stormont House Agreement and also to work with paramilitary -- | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
paramilitary activity. These concluded on the 17th of November | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
with a document entitled the fresh start Stormont agreement and | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
implementation plan. This was agreed between the UK Government the Irish | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
government and the national is in the executives. In the governments | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
view that agreement goes a long way to satisfy the objectives that the | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
participants of the talks that themselves. It gives the executive a | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
stable and sustainable budget, including wealth over form. It am | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
blocked progress on other crucial elements of the Stormont House | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
Agreement. And on parent military activity, the agreement strongly | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
prefers for the long and places fresh obligations on Northern | :47:07. | :47:09. | |
Ireland's political representatives to work together with determination | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
to reach society and filled urgently -- paramilitary activity. That | :47:15. | :47:17. | |
agreement by the previous one was underpinned by financial package | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
from the UK Government this time worth up to half alien pounds. I can | :47:21. | :47:27. | |
inform the House of progress on his limitation of the agreement has been | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
good. The day after it was reached on the 18th of November, the | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
assembly passed the latest live -- legislative consent motion for the | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
-- Westminster to go ahead. The subsequent Northern Ireland welfare | :47:43. | :47:48. | |
reform act was given on the 25th of November and the related woods has | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
on the 20th of December. The government is now working on the | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
secondary legislation to deliver the new welfare system in Northern | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
Ireland. We hope to be in a position to begin bringing this forward | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
shortly with a view to completing its passage through both houses as | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
soon as we are able to. On the 21st of December, the UK and Irish | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
governments along with the Northern Ireland Executive established a | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
joint agency task force to reinforce efforts to tackle cross | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
jurisdictional organised crime. The executive has established a 3-person | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
panel to make recommendations for a ranging strategy to expand | :48:27. | :48:33. | |
paramilitary groups. The appointments for the new commission | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
is underway. A bill of the government departments from 12 to | :48:38. | :48:40. | |
not have completed its consideration in the assembly and a further bill | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
to reduce the number of MLA in their prestigious seat from six to five is | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
set for a final stage of consideration in the assembly | :48:49. | :48:54. | |
tomorrow. The bill before the House today represents further significant | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
progress doing with elements of the fresh start agreement which require | :48:59. | :49:01. | |
UK Government legislation. Clauses one through five are to be agreed | :49:02. | :49:08. | |
between the UK and Irish governments and will establish the independent | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
report commissioned. The bill sets out the commissions primary | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
objective to promote progress toward ending paramilitary activity | :49:18. | :49:20. | |
collected with Northern Ireland. It will report on progress towards that | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
objective and on the implementation of relevant measures by the UK | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
Government, the Irish government, and the executive, which we were | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
greeted in the fresh start agreement. The bill makes provision | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
for key aspects including the duties to which it will be subject and the | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
legal privileges to be conferred on it as an international body. These | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
are intended to make sure that the commission is able to engage with a | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
range of sources of information in performing its important functions, | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
but avoids doing anything that might put safety and national security at | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
risk. I appreciate the honourable members looking at the text of the | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
treaty. It is not possible to provide that today because it is not | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
yet agreed between the UK and Irish governments. But of course we will | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
pay for -- plays a copy in the House library as soon as possible in June. | :50:15. | :50:25. | |
The remaining Clause talks about allocation after 14 days after the | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
assembly meets following an election. The purpose of this | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
agreement and change will allow parties more time to agree on a | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
cross party but basis prior to the allocation of ministerial positions. | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
It is hoped that this will encourage all parties approach to a programme | :50:45. | :50:52. | |
for Government. Clause seven will talk about the fresh start agreement | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
and giving unequivocal support to the rule of law and to work | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
collectively to achieve a society free of paramilitary for. Clause | :51:01. | :51:07. | |
eight introduces a similar undertaking by all members of the | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
assembly -- assembly. Clause nine talks about the commitment of it | :51:12. | :51:19. | |
can't relent, with assembly consent to increase fiscal transparency in | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
executive budgets. That's helping the executive to deliver affordable | :51:25. | :51:35. | |
and sustainable budgets. If I may take a back to talk on a new pledge | :51:36. | :51:44. | |
introduced for all MLS that they can not participate in any procedures | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
and do anything with the assembly unless they have taken this new | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
pledge. However when they have taken the new pledge, what do they do to | :51:53. | :52:00. | |
be faithful to honour and who actually decides? Not shooting of | :52:01. | :52:08. | |
any sanctions for the actions of MLA is an matter for the assembly rather | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
than for the legislation here today and for this chamber. I am grateful | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
to the Honorable Lady for her intervention. Going back to Clause | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
nine, it provides that the Northern Ireland Executive Finance Minister | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
will have a duty to specify... Thank you this doesn't deputy speaker I'm | :52:28. | :52:37. | |
very sorry to... In response by the Secretary of State. Clause eight | :52:38. | :52:43. | |
Ashley goes on to say that standing orders should provide the procedure, | :52:44. | :52:51. | |
given the ever taken, that there will be standing orders passed by | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
the assembly about sanctions for those MLS who do not honour so it | :52:55. | :53:02. | |
must be this legislation. I did not mean my answer to sound flippant or | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
not serious at all but it remains the case that the bill does not | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
provide for sanctions nor does the fresh start agreement. In terms of | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
internal matters of discipline within the assembly, that really is | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
an matter for the assembly is held to determine. What I can provide is | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
further clarification for this, obviously an individual who refuses | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
to give the undertaking will be able to participate in assembly | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
proceedings or received any of the privileges. I returned to Clause | :53:36. | :53:43. | |
nine. It provides that the Northern Ireland Finance Minister will have a | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
duty to specify to the assembly the amount of government funding | :53:47. | :53:52. | |
available. The Minister will then need to show when delivering aid | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
draft a budget the amount of government funding required by that | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
draft budget does not exceed the amount specified. She agreed that | :54:02. | :54:13. | |
the provisions that were outlined to the extent here. Should members not | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
take their oath here and they receive privileges and benefits here | :54:18. | :54:24. | |
and are not excluded, maybe we should be learning something from | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
the situation in Northern Ireland. I am very much aware of his concerns | :54:30. | :54:34. | |
and his parties about such matters and of course the issues relating to | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
the privileges and expenses are house business and he and his | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
colleagues are welcome to praise them at any time for the House to | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
consider those matters. Of course we are looking at short money on those | :54:47. | :54:54. | |
matters as well. Just to take another step back in relation to the | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
cross borders task force, I understand the meeting was held in | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
December 2050 to establish that. Can you clarify for us today how often | :55:04. | :55:10. | |
that passport will meet or is scheduled to meet? I think we need | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
to distinguish between the ministerial meeting which was a one | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
off from the agency task force which will meet regularly. I don't know | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
that it has scheduled a timetable of meetings as yet. I'm sure once it | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
does I can supply him with details of that. One would expect it to meet | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
regularly to come to its important work. I know that the membership is | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
being formulated. So it is already cracking on with its work. Yes. | :55:38. | :55:45. | |
Certainly. Would she agree with me that the cross-border cooperation | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
and the issues of organised crime are made much easier if the Republic | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
of Ireland and Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK are members of | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
the European Union? What I was wondering when that subject would | :56:01. | :56:02. | |
come up. LAUGHTER . I can assure him that there are a | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
whole range of reasons why the relationship between the UK and | :56:08. | :56:10. | |
Ireland has improved massively over recent years. So Mr Speaker that | :56:11. | :56:17. | |
outlines the main features of the short but important piece of the | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
Northern Ireland legislation. Thank you for giving way Secretary of | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
State. There is one area that is not in this bill. Can a security Terry | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
of state informed us or confirm for us when the legacy bill will be | :56:32. | :56:37. | |
coming forward because there aren't many people through northern Ireland | :56:38. | :56:40. | |
who are deeply grieving and want to know when those proposals will come | :56:41. | :56:47. | |
forward. Well the honourable member raises a very important issue which | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
I was about to come onto. Sadly I will not be able to give her a date | :56:51. | :56:56. | |
for presentation of that legislation but I shall go into and I am | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
determined to work as hard as I can to build the consensus necessary to | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
allow us to introduce that legislation. I agree with her that | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
is very important that we press ahead. So Mr Speaker I must put on | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
record my gratitude to her majesties opposition to agreeing to a somewhat | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
faster than usual passage for this legislation through the House. This | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
should enable measures related to the pledge of offers the undertaking | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
and the extension of time available, to be in place in time for the new | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
assembly when it meets in May. It will enable the new independent | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
reporting commission to be established as soon as possible. I | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
am very conscious of the honourable ladies pointed there are important | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
elements in the storm and house agreement that are sadly not in the | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
building we are discussing today. I refer of | :57:49. | :57:59. | |
Given that this legislation is going to be fast tracked, can the | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
Secretary of State give an undertaking that the legacy bill | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
will not be fast tracked and her commitment to building consensus | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
will take proper consideration of victims and not just being cobbled | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
between parties? I think any to reflect on that but I would | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
definitely agree with them that the legacy bill is very much in a | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
different category to these two pieces of legislation, the one that | :58:27. | :58:28. | |
we are looking at today and the welfare legislation. So in those | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
circumstances, we should do everything in our ability to make | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
sure everything has a normal timetable though if you allow me, I | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
will not give an absolute undertaking on that for the purposes | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
of today, but I think if we get to the stage of being able to present | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
that else a parliament, it is highly likely we want to proceed with it on | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
the basis of an ordinary timetable rather than an expedited one rather | :58:53. | :58:58. | |
than the -- given the circumstances. Returning to those legacy bodies, as | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
I set out in my speech in Belfast on the 11th of February, we remain | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
committed to establishing these bodies. We have a manifesto | :59:08. | :59:10. | |
commitment to do that. We will continue with our efforts to build | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
consensus needed to allow us to present legislation to this house. | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
We have made more progress than any of our predecessors in getting close | :59:19. | :59:25. | |
to and achieving an agreement on the past. We are now closer than ever in | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
resolving the main outstanding problems standing in the way of | :59:30. | :59:33. | |
getting these new bodies set up and operating. I am going to continue to | :59:34. | :59:40. | |
engage with the political parties in Northern Ireland, with victims and | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
survivors, and with those who represent and I'm particularly | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
grateful for the commission of victims and survivors and trying to | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
facilitate this process and working hard to try with me to build | :59:54. | :59:56. | |
consensus for these new bodies will stop I give way. Just on the legacy | :59:57. | :00:02. | |
issue, would she agree with me that one element of the legacy issue that | :00:03. | :00:10. | |
is paramount in the minds of many survivors is that under no account, | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
under no circumstances, must Northern Ireland going forward be | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
presented as a case of those who are perpetrators of violence are treated | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
in the same weight as those who are innocent victims of that very | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
violence? I entirely agree with them. We on this side of the House | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
will not accept a rewrite of history. I think we should always | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
recall that the dedication and sacrifice made by both the I you see | :00:36. | :00:42. | |
and services in Northern Ireland, we should salute that sacrifice and in | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
the vast majority of cases, the members of the security forces | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
perform their duties with the outmost integrity and | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
professionalism. I also want to pay tribute to the dignity and | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
determination with which victims and survivors approach these matters | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
under discussion of the legacy. I have been deeply moved on many | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
occasions when I met victims and survivors to hear of their | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
experiences and tragedies. I have welcomed the chance to meet many of | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
them over my years of Secretary of State. They have divergent views on | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
a number of issues but almost all of them are agreement that the current | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
mechanisms for tackling legacy cases are not working as they should. The | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
legacy bodies proposed in the Stormont House agreement will not be | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
perfect and sadly, even when they are set up, they will not provide | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
every answer to every question. Sadly there is no set of solutions | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
that we can devise here in Stormont that could ever achievement. -- | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
achieved that. But there is a significant better outcome for | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
victims and survivors in the status quo and for that reason, we will | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
continue to pursue them with diligence and dedication. As a | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
result of the Stormont house and Fresh Start Agreement, I think | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
politics in Northern Ireland are probably more stable now than they | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
have been in the past three years. Economically, while there was | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
undoubtedly some heartbreaking news from a place last week, it is still | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
the case that there are 46,000 more people in work since 2010 and the | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
unemployment register is down by more than 40% since its peak in | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
2013. The Fresh Start Agreement also takes us closer to the point when we | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
are able to complete the transfer of Corporation tax powers to the | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
executive and move which I believe could have a transformative effect | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
on the economy there. As we go forward, there'll continue to be | :02:42. | :02:43. | |
difficulties and challenges, I hardly need to remind the House that | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
despite some success in suppressing their activities, the threat from | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
distant Republicans is severe and the need for vigilance is constant. | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
We are also of cores approaching some very sensitive since injuries,, | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
iterations that could have deferred meanings for different parts of the | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
community. But Northern Ireland is entering 2016 more positively than | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
for some time. For our part, the government remains determined to | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
deliver its manifesto commitment to help build a brighter, more secure | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
future for Northern Ireland, this bill is intended to help that | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
process and I commend it to the House. The question is that the bill | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
be read a second time. Thank you very much. Can I welcome the | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
Secretary of State to the debate. I hope she stays in. | :03:36. | :03:45. | |
LAUGHTER Mr Deputy Speaker, this bill delivers some of the key | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
aspects of the 17th of November 2015 fresh start and indeed the 2014 | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
Stormont House agreement. These agreements sent a financial pass | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
Bell impasse in Northern Ireland that exposed us to the very real | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
possibility of a return to direct role, which would have been | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
disastrous. It is therefore of course very welcome. An interest in | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
the sun since the bill. It is crucial that we stress the | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
importance of economic development, the Secretary of State herself | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
announced that the job losses in Bob RDA last week were a terrible blow | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
to advanced manufacturing in Northern Ireland. And a personal | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
tragedy for those losing their jobs as well as families. Who will now of | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
course be seeking employment elsewhere. Jobs in Northern Ireland | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
across the UK is crucial as the strength of the economy and | :04:44. | :04:45. | |
opportunity helps to deliver progress. Of course the place | :04:46. | :04:54. | |
investigates and eight -- works in a competitive market and that market | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
is not as strong as we would like. However the government has a | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
responsibility. So what is the government doing to support those | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
who remain at Anbar DA. And what is the government doing to make sure | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
those people are finding employment as swiftly as possible. And when the | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
Minister of state comes up can he say more about that, what I've -- | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
what steps she and he will be having the rest of the government to | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
encourage more direct foreign investment into Northern Ireland? Mr | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
Deputy Speaker as we begin to discuss the bill, let's also remind | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
ourselves that the previous 12 months in Ireland have not been | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
easy. In the summer on the budgetary stalemate on the issue of welfare, | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
that led to a political crisis which required all of the skill and | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
commitment of those involved to get an agreement which would break the | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
stalemate that existed. And allow progress to be made. I have said | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
before, and want to put on record again, all of those involved | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
including the Secretary of states, all of the parties in Northern | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
Ireland, many of whom represented here and many of the members are | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
represented. And the Irish government, they all deserve huge | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
credit for achieving the Fresh Start Agreement. Without, as I said, there | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
is a real risk of the collapse of devolution or its return to direct | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
role. Either of which will have been unthinkable. I know there was huge | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
disappointment as well that no agreement could be reached as we | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
have heard on how to deal with the past. I and many others raise this | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
issue in the House over the last few weeks and months. However, I know | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
that progress was made. I am glad the Secretary of State has said and | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
reiterated that now is not the time to give up but to try and build on | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
the progress that has been made while recognising the challenges and | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
difficulties that remain. The publication of the draft treaty on | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
independent commission on information, which I think was very | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
welcome, not only to show the direction of travel, but also to | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
show how much progress was made indeed in the talks. Victims must be | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
at the heart of any future agreements. And the heart of any | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
agreement. That is clear to us all. The recent allegations in respect to | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
various atrocities of the past demonstrate more than ever the need | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
for process to be agreed. But victims must feel that they are not | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
locked out of any progress and that is why I urge the Secretary of State | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
to be as transparent as possible, even where difficulty remains, and | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
as we continue to seek an agreement. Can I also say to the Secretary of | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
State, given an agreement has not been reached on how to deal with the | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
past and could not be included in this bill, we do need to look at the | :07:48. | :07:56. | |
resources available to the corner services and others to support | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
investigations to speed up the inquests that they continue to be | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
required to do. More and more delay for victims is unacceptable. Would | :08:06. | :08:13. | |
my honourable friend agree as I do with the first Minister of Northern | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
Ireland who said that we need to get real about the investigations into | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
these legacy cases. The PSI investigate within the budget | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
constraints and they have to prioritise and they are doing more | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
and more and they should receive funding from here, not having to | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
take from their own resources to deal with the legacy of the past? I | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
agree very much with the point that my honourable friend has made. I | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
agree with the first Minister and others in Northern Ireland to have | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
pointed out that notwithstanding the agreement has not been reached at | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
how to deal with the legacy issues, the coroners office and others are | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
still required to deal with the consequences of these issues. And | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
therefore given that the Secretary of State has now put aside money, | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
pending any agreement, surely it would be acceptable to give some of | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
this money to those bodies to reflect on the continuing work that | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
they have to do in trying to investigate and resolve some of the | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
difficulties that they face. I think that is a perfectly reasonable | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
request that has been made. I know she will not be able to answer that | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
now but I think it is something the Secretary of State and the Minister | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
of State with the government should consider in order to take forward. | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
The Fresh Start Agreement does make it clear that the 150 million | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
package to support legacy is linked to the establishment of the new | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
bodies but, we are listening carefully to the representations | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
made in particular to the inquests. If a form package for inquests will | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
put together than we put together the inquests funding to support it. | :09:54. | :10:01. | |
I think that is a helpful response from the secretary of state and I | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
think everybody in this house and in Northern Ireland would have heard | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
what she has just said and the implication of it is that she is | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
open to making money available, both to the PSI and to the corner | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
services in order to take this forward. I think the victims would | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
expect that. They know it is difficult to come to an agreement in | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
respect to how to do with the past, the institutions or proposed | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
institutions are there. But at the agreement is not yet reached but the | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
work has to be taken forward. Given that the money is there, we would | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
support the Secretary of State in any sub micro point she has to make | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
to the secretary to micro Treasury to support that work and to enable | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
it to take place as soon as possible. I think people in Northern | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
Ireland would expect that to happen as soon as possible as well and the | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
have heard with the Secretary of have heard with the Secretary of | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
State has just said. It has been a habit of dealing with Northern | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
Ireland legislation in one day in this house. We believe that should | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
only be the case when it is truly urgent. We support the emergency | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
procedure, with respect to welfare reform, but I promised the Secretary | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
of State that when I resume this role that we would maintain a bar | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
pies and approach based on the approach of consent. -- bipartisan. | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
I hope we have demonstrated that commitment. I want to make it clear | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
to an expedited procedure, not to an expedited procedure, not | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
emergency process. This allows members of this house and colleagues | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
more time to consider the bill while still making it possible for us to | :11:37. | :11:44. | |
obtain a sense of the forthcoming Northern Ireland elections. Can I | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
say to the Secretary of State, my ascension is that any legislations | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
of consent motion around this bill will be forthcoming in the necessary | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
time. This will ensure that measures relating to the pledge, the | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
undertaking, and the time available from the ministerial appointments | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
are in place in time for the good ministerial return. Something I am | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
told the parties themselves are keen to see happen. Can I support in a | :12:09. | :12:16. | |
moment the point that the honourable member made about legacy issues were | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
this to come before the House in due course. I think he made a fair and | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
reasonable point about that given the importance and significance of | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
that. I think anybody in Northern Ireland expect that to go through | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
the due process and not be speeded up in any way given its significance | :12:34. | :12:42. | |
and importance. I am grateful for the intervention. I would just like | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
to ascertain whether her Majesty's opposition will be tailing | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
amendments to make... That there will be a sanction for the MLA is | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
who make the pledge, take the seats, and do not abide by the pledge. | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
There is a code of ministerial responsibility and there are | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
sanctions. But after this bill, there are no sanctions at all, it is | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
an obvious gap in the draft. The honourable Lady, I am going to say | :13:14. | :13:21. | |
something about those pledges. I think she is right in the sense of | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
whether we table amendments or not, she is right to ask for | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
clarification and the remarks I am making, I will quote one of the | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
pledges, which has a qualification at the end of it to ask what that | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
specifically means and I think the honourable Lady is absolutely right | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
to ask questions about what these pledges actually mean and what | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
happens in the case, given even excepting that it is Stormont | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
business, I think it is right these questions are asked in this house. | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, the bill would establish an independent commission | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
as per progress being made toward the paramilitary activity in | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
Northern Ireland. This is the key aspect of the bill, paramilitary | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
activity is almost acceptable -- entirely uninhabitable but we have | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
to consider in committee what progress has been made already and | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
why this initiative will work when others have not. How progress will | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
be judged and what happens when progress stalls. I would like to say | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
to the Secretary of State a number of issues that will have to be | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
exported in committee is the issue of disclosure will arise as the | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
Secretary of State is required by the bill to issue guidance on how | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
the national security and individuals are protected. ATX | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
donation will be needed on this issue so that problems which prevent | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
an agreement in the House to deal with the pass will not happen again | :14:41. | :14:42. | |
and prevent the commission from working effectively or working at | :14:43. | :14:50. | |
all. The bill as the honourable Lady mentioned also nullifies the pledge | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
of office to be taken by the Northern Ireland ministers. The | :14:55. | :14:56. | |
revised pledge would include fresh obligations to work together on | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
shared objective of removing all forms of paramilitary groups and | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
activity. The Bill introduces a parallel activity for members of | :15:08. | :15:10. | |
assembly against something to be welcome to demonstrating the | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
peaceful pursuit of change and progress. I just use one example, | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
the revised pledge includes commitments and the committee stage | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
I think members might want to see further explanation about the detail | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
of these pledges. For example, one of the commitments says to ask that | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
no authority, directional control, on political activities other than | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
my democratic mandate alongside my own personal and party judgement. I | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
think the committee may have a qualification in that pledge | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
explained fully. The bill also extends the period allowed for the | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
Northern Ireland ministers will visibly is selected from seven to 14 | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
days and this will hopefully allow more time for programme of | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
government to be agreed. It also makes provisions to allow trips -- | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
fiscal transparency and the delivery of sustainable budget. In other | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
words it will need to clearly set out with the UK government is | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
providing an terms of the spending is how to be funded. I look forward | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
to some interesting discussions on that one. Does he therefore accept | :16:19. | :16:31. | |
that on principle, if a member in this house does not take their oath, | :16:32. | :16:40. | |
that therefore the privileges in this house should entirely be | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
removed from them? As the Secretary of State, of course this is house | :16:46. | :16:47. | |
business but you would expect anybody as a member of this house to | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
have committed themselves to the Democratic pursuit to democracy and | :16:52. | :16:59. | |
to the pursuit of decisions through Jim -- democratic means. That is | :17:00. | :17:01. | |
expected from everybody in this house. So he accepts our principal, | :17:02. | :17:09. | |
would he then from the normal channels, through the government | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
bring a motion to this house and finally resolve the anomaly that | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
exists that allows Irish Republicans to benefit from privileges in this | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
house without taking the oath? That is house business and I cannot | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
commit myself to that but I believe the honourable member has heard what | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
I have to say about that and as I say, it is something that we would | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
expect all members of this house to commit themselves to the democratic | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
process and to democracy. I think that is what all of us have done. I | :17:41. | :17:52. | |
was talking about the budget and the perks -- promoting fiscal | :17:53. | :17:54. | |
transparency for a sustainable budget, I think this'll be another | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
area that will need to be in committee. To conclude, Northern | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
Ireland is not out of conflict, it is coming out of conflict. Huge | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
progress has been made but challenges remain. Paramilitary | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
activity still hangs over too many communities and impacts on too many | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
people. This activity, whether public or otherwise never had it | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
place in society and has no place now. The bill represents a split | :18:26. | :18:33. | |
towards the principal at the heart of any democracy. The rule of law is | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
paramount in every community. Law and force by the police is subject | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
to an independent judiciary. The success of this bill, the new | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
pledges, and independent commission, which will be judged on how far they | :18:49. | :18:55. | |
bring back all about. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker, I want to make a | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
fairly brief intervention in this debate. Before I do so I wonder if | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
you would allow me to for a few seconds refer to and pay tribute to | :19:06. | :19:14. | |
my constituency who just a few days ago died very suddenly. -- | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
constituents. He worked with me for 14 years and took a particular | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
interest in matters in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
helping me quite a bit with my work on the select committee but also as | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
co-chairman of British Irish commentary assembly. His death is a | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
stunning shock and my heart goes out to his parents, Ryan and Maureen, so | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
I hope it is in order for me to give the greatest tribute to him possible | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
today. I think I'll honourable members know how much we depend on | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
our staff and when their personal friends as well, such a loss at the | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
age of 49 is really a terrible situation. Thank you. Can I pay | :19:58. | :20:04. | |
tribute to the Secretary of State for the work that she has done in | :20:05. | :20:11. | |
getting us to this point. I think I know how difficult it was back in | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
September I think it was, when it really did look like the | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
institutions in Northern Ireland may collapse. I know how much work she | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
put into it and her dedication was total, she is absolutely determined | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
that institutions would not collapse, we would in fact find some | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
degree of agreement, and a solution which would enable us to move | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
forward and the fact that we are here today demonstrates that she was | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
successful in that. I want to pay tribute to her and her team and the | :20:44. | :20:54. | |
very hard work that she put into it. Somebody in my position before it | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
was select committee Chairman, I served as shadow Minister for five | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
years I think it was. During some of that time, we dealt with some awful | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
legislation in committee of stairs. Statutory instruments, making badges | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
-- making major decisions on behalf of Parliament and people in Northern | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
Ireland. And on many of those occasions, at the beginning of the | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
stooges I was making, I did say how wrong and inappropriate it was to | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
government province and that way. But we really did face the prospect | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
of going back to that situation. That worried me and frightened me. | :21:32. | :21:40. | |
It came about as a result of a couple of murders in Northern | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
Ireland, tragic murders, and the linkage between those murders and | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
people who were allegedly in the assembly or people in the assembly | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
were allegedly sympathetic to that kind of activity. I am very pleased | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
that this bill today makes it very clear that there is no place at all, | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
either in this place or the assembly of Northern Ireland, for people who | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
hold those beliefs. The famous statement we heard many years ago, | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
the chilling statement, that would proceed with the... Those days are | :22:10. | :22:18. | |
long gone. Anybody who tries to practice that or tries to carry out | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
politics in that way really should be imprisoned, deprived of their | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
liberty. There is no place in the Northern Ireland Assembly for those | :22:28. | :22:29. | |
kinds of people. We would not in this place want to work on | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
committees in this house or anywhere else with people who by day are in | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
the debating chamber and that night on the streets causing problems and | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
trouble, wreaking havoc. We would not accept that in this place and it | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
should not be accepted in Northern Ireland so I am pleased that this | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
bill paves the way for removing that kind of behaviour. I appreciate the | :22:52. | :22:59. | |
point that he is making that sometimes you do have to stop and | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
pinch yourself and recognise how far Northern Ireland has gone in the | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
last number of years. The point he is making about Northern Ireland | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
politicians taking decisions about the needs of the people of Northern | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
Ireland is actually emphasised today. There has been something like | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
26 amendments on the floor of the Northern Ireland Parliament today | :23:22. | :23:23. | |
being voted on and consulted and considered by Northern Ireland | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
elected representatives and that shows, instead of things being taken | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
to committee rooms here, the decisions of people by the Northern | :23:33. | :23:35. | |
Ireland representatives on the floor of the assembly are very prosperous | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
and good opportunities. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
from making that point, he was able to exercise far stronger than I was | :23:46. | :23:47. | |
able to the importance of assembly functioning. The great problem when | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
we saw committee taking decisions just by the nature of this house, | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
there were a few people in this committees from Northern Ireland. So | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
the decisions were taken by people like myself and many other people | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
from English constituencies with very few representatives from | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
Northern Ireland so he is right to make that point. I think dealing | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
with the paramilitary aspirant, that is the most urgent aspect but there | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
are other issues as well which are in the bill today. One was the | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
agreement of the budgets. I have said this before, when we have a | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
situation where we have co-chairing rather than a straight Democratic | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
situation like we have in this house, where we have a power-sharing | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
situation, we all know why we have it and it brought people together. | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
But if there is a compromise their and there has sometimes to be a | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
compromise, whether in the way that the Northern Ireland Assembly does | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
possess, that have to be times where executives take their stances, make | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
their points, their objections, but at the end did the day, the House | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
has to be in agreement because there've there is no agreement, if | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
the views of the petition of concern and both sides have used it to | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
excess, that is not actually going to be very helpful. If we cannot get | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
agreement on important issues such as the budget, then we really do | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
face the rather dark prospect of the institutions collapsing, as we | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
almost saw and are now being brought back to the House. That is not | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
something I want to see. When he is referring to the issues that reached | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
consensus and agreement that was reached on, we agreed that the issue | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
of cooperation tax was one that reached eventually consensus. When | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
people were looking forward and are looking forward to the prospect of | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
potentially tens of thousands of jobs being created in Northern | :25:48. | :25:50. | |
Ireland. How does he feel about the delay that was caused in reaching | :25:51. | :25:57. | |
the consensus, principally to Northern Ireland and UK membership | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
that curtailed that for many years. The gentleman makes a good point, I | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
would make two comments in response. When the select committee looked at | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
this issue, it was the first issue would look that in my chairmanship | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
in 2010. We found the committee was not unanimous in its support for | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
involving the responsibilities for cooperation tax, but all the parties | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
in general were in favour of it. So cooperation tax was one of the few | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
issues that every part of Northern Ireland agreed with the policy on. | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
That was a real positive and the honourable gentleman not afraid is | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
absolutely right. We had done something about it then -- could | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
have done something about it. The tax rates in Northern Ireland could | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
have been changed in 2010 or long before that, if that had not been | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
for our membership in the European Union. I am not sure how far out the | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
Deputy Speaker will allow me to pursue that argument, but the point | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
made by the gentleman, or even if we wanted to reduce tourism in Northern | :27:03. | :27:11. | |
Ireland, that would not be legal under European union rolls. There | :27:12. | :27:13. | |
are a number of ways looking at membership of EU and we spent two | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
and a half hours on it earlier and I do not think we'll be able to spend | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
too much longer on it now but the point he makes is absolutely right. | :27:22. | :27:35. | |
There is always Thursday. I was just making the point that I accept the | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
petitions of concern have been used on both sides and that there has not | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
actually been very helpful in coming to an agreement on important issues. | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
I know that it's often sending legislation but I do know the | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
present -- fresh start agreement to address that point and for the | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
request and a very strong way that is not a facility with which should | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
be abused for the reasons we have given. Mr Deputy Speaker, I don't | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
wish to detain the House any longer but this bill is a small bill. I | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
think it is a very important Bill. It moves us in the right direction | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
and again I thought mama and congratulate the secretaries of | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
state not only for introducing this bill but also on the amount of hard | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
work she has put in. Mr Deputy Speaker thank you I will be brief in | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
order to allow time for other members to contribute to the debate. | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
There were a lot of people who would rather see this whole process fail | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
than succeed. They have their reasons and there is some form of | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
logic that defend that position. It is however the right of the people | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
to govern themselves to take decisions close to home and to | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
protect their fees. In the case of Northern Ireland, that is a piece | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
which was fashioned relatively recently and with great expense and | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
his harried by continued undercurrent by the minorities. We | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
should note that the political leaders on all sides of the debate | :29:05. | :29:11. | |
of northern Ireland do have a legacy to address that may cause them some | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
long and uncomfortable beds in the times ahead. They must however find | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
a way to put the history of the communities in context when there | :29:21. | :29:22. | |
look into the future of those communities. The skies of yesterday | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
cannot be allowed to become open once again. It seems to me that that | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
is the hardest task they face no matter what happens in this place. | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
The land has paid a heavy price for being what it is and where it is. | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
The communities that belong to the land have paid a heavy price for | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
ideology and in transit fees over the years. This chamber has seen | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
many debates, questions, and angry exchanges which at times seemed to | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
pay little or no attention to the lies being affected and often lost. | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
This bill is a step forward in providing it is by accepted storm. | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
There is no magic wand to wave. But a collective movement will allow the | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
politicians of storm and more freedom for the direction of travel. | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
It is they that must address the legacy issues and address at | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
BellSouth and London. The storm and should decide on the domestic | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
programmes to serve their people. They will operate under some severe | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
financial restrictions but they will at least have control over the tech | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
session they will need. The devolution of corporation tax, the | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
in all be able to decide tax rates and incentives for companies | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
companies as well as individuals. I see no reason why the other devolved | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
administration should not have the same power. There are gaps that have | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
open between the points of the storm and house agreement and the fresh | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
start agreement and this bill. I welcome the Bill and the forward | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
momentum it takes to keep going. I congratulate the team that has | :31:01. | :31:03. | |
brought it this far. I assume that these were not the easiest days. | :31:04. | :31:10. | |
Gratitude should go to those in this chamber who have played a positive | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
and forward-looking role in this process. The secretary of state of | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
course and particularly those members here who represent | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
constituencies in Northern Ireland. But while acknowledging the efforts | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
of the administrators on this side of the Irish seat, we should also | :31:27. | :31:33. | |
acknowledge the efforts of their counterparts in Dublin. Throughout | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
the preprocessor and the development of devotion they have been vital to | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
deliver the possibility of a peaceful and prosperous future. I | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
think we should note that in this year of remembrance for the Irish | :31:47. | :31:49. | |
nation, the people of Northern Ireland who suffer the effects of | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
the troubles and continue to suffer them now, in the form of higher | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
unemployment and a legacy of arrested community development, who | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
I associate myself very much with the comments made by the Secretary | :32:03. | :32:05. | |
of state about economic development, nothing will change that overnight. | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
We are and at least looking in the right direction now. The S | :32:11. | :32:19. | |
supports the passage of this bill. Element thank you Mr Deputy Speaker | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
and I will begin by welcoming the introduction on the second reading | :32:24. | :32:33. | |
to bid on this bill. We of course on these benches support the bill and | :32:34. | :32:36. | |
the proposal to fast-track the legislation. Cannot command the | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
Secretary of State or her speech to the House. I have to say there were | :32:40. | :32:47. | |
a number of very wise statement that she has been making in relation to | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
Northern Ireland and I commend her on all of those statements. Hear, | :32:53. | :33:01. | |
hear!. Mr Deputy Speaker is a general rule we are keen to see the | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
fullest possible parliamentary scrutiny of legislation affecting | :33:07. | :33:12. | |
northern Ireland. In the past we have passed legislation on an | :33:13. | :33:16. | |
emergency basis. Quite often this was unavoidable. It was nevertheless | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
understandable. We all accept, for the reasons that the honourable | :33:22. | :33:27. | |
gentleman has outlined, this was not the best way in which to operate. He | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
has illustrated that this evening. It was often the result of some | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
breakdown or failure of the political process of Northern | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
Ireland. We're glad to say that this bill does not fall into that | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
category. This bill has actually been brought forward as a result of | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
political agreement, not political disagreement or crisis. It is based | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
on the political agreement last November and there been considerable | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
consultation and work in the Northern Ireland Assembly and with | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
the Northern Ireland Executive so that we can reach the stage that we | :34:03. | :34:04. | |
are today. Of course this legislation should be born and is | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
only part of the implementation process of the storm and agreement. | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
There is a long list of issues which were agreed and which are all being | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
progressed and implemented either in the assembly, through this house, or | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
directly administered by the executive and other agencies. The | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
Secretary of State has set those out. The executive for northern | :34:31. | :34:38. | |
Ireland has already agreed the legislation consent motion should | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
come forward to the assembly for the clauses of all matters. I understand | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
that that legislative consent which will come before the assembly will | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
happen in mid-March. I am confident Mr Deputy Speaker that despite the | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
need to fast-track the legislation, we will have the opportunity for | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
adequate consideration. It is important that a number of the | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
measures that are introduced by this bill are in place so that when the | :35:05. | :35:12. | |
assembly elections are held, and the results come in, that everything is | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
in place for the new term of the assembly and the new executive to | :35:17. | :35:18. | |
operate under the new legislation without any hiccup or delay or any? | :35:19. | :35:28. | |
Over it. In particularly the probation in agreement of a | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
programme for government stand in the period to appoint ministers and | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
new paragraph for a pledge of office and undertaking for a malaise. Those | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
are all absolutely essential that this House does with those before | :35:42. | :35:50. | |
the assembly in March. Thank you. I am very grateful to the right | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
honourable gentleman. In light of the recent controversy around the | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
scrutiny of MLA expenses, unfortunately the damage that that | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
does public confidence, I went with the right honourable gentleman agree | :36:08. | :36:14. | |
that this bill would be inappropriate way in which we could | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
introduce in Northern Ireland and institutions comparable and rebuild | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
public confidence in the procedures in Northern Ireland? If that is a | :36:25. | :36:34. | |
whole other area of debate. We will hold much argument and discussion in | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
this house I'm sure. We discussed some time ago and could not get | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
agreement. The First Minister of Northern Ireland gave a speech on | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
Friday night outlining again the importance of transparency and on | :36:51. | :36:52. | |
this matter being dealt with and taken forward in precisely that way. | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
We have to say whether this bill is the right time to do that, remains | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
to be seen. That would require consultation and agreement within | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
Northern Ireland. It could happen and I would encourage parties to do | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
that. I think it is important that the confidence is maintained in the | :37:11. | :37:18. | |
integrity of the assembly. We in this house knows what it is to have | :37:19. | :37:20. | |
gone through that type of controversies, so we want to ensure | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
that teens are progressed properly and openly with the most | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
transparency. You get stuck when they did do reporting about the | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
instances of the Northern Ireland reaching, overall they found a | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
satisfactory situation. Nevertheless we need to ensure that whatever | :37:42. | :37:51. | |
steps need to be taken to introduce transparency, I would be in support | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
of that and our party supports that. I think others will agree to that as | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
well. Mr Deputy Speaker this bill as the secretary of state has said | :38:02. | :38:04. | |
seeks to implement aspects of the fresh start agreement. The fresh | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
start agreement does represent a new beginning for politics. . I'd | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
totally recreate what about what you said for the situation in Northern | :38:16. | :38:23. | |
Ireland people have seen an agreement can be made and it is most | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
difficult things can get done when there is an agreement and we need to | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
move forward. We must continue to build on that as we move forward. | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
That wasn't exactly possible to resolve every issue especially in | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
relation to the past. We have a discussed that and we'll discuss | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
that in much greater detail. Of course that is in the bill. We | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
should be discussing what is in the bill. Our party would like to say | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
again that we are quite happy for the details on how far we have | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
gotten for all of that to be published. All of the people who | :38:58. | :39:05. | |
were affected as conceived openly how much work has been done and how | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
much progress has been made. They can also see where the gaps are and | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
what needs to be done in conclusion. But to issues that threatened | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
imminent destruction of dilution of that time -- dilution of that time | :39:18. | :39:26. | |
and paramilitary violence, whose manners have been addressed agreed, | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
and dealt with, are subject to provisions in this bill. The | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
resolution of the welfare reform issue was an extremely important | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
issue. The importance of resolving that cannot be underestimated. This | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
was the single most important issue from a financial aspect to be | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
resolved by the assembly to function. Even after the fresh start | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
agreement, there were still members of this house and members of the | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
assembly who were opposing the implementation of the agreement. | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
They did not seem to recognise that without a budget that would actually | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
measure up and be sustainable, you just cannot continue with the | :40:12. | :40:18. | |
involution. There are politicians in northern Ireland who have grappled | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
with difficult problems and sat down through dialogue and come to an | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
agreement and sensible outcomes. I am very pleased at the end of the | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
day this house was able to take forward the welfare and reforms and | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
the Northern Ireland Assembly has been able to agree that the | :40:39. | :40:45. | |
mitigations in some of the enhancements to the welfare system | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
will be able to proceed as well. That is very important of course. | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
What we have is a welfare system which is not something that we in | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
this bench would have in -- to find but recognises the strength of the | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
parameters in which we have to operate financially. So Mr Deputy | :41:06. | :41:15. | |
Speaker, I am pleased that all the major targets under the storm and | :41:16. | :41:24. | |
Andy Fresh Start Agreement are being met and deadlines are being kept. | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
Unlike the micro one of 2014, I believe there is every reason to | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
expect that every aspect will be implemented in full. On the welfare | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
reform agreement I think it is important that the recommendations | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
that came in under budget and will be if a man by the assembly. This | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
will allow more money to be spent in other areas. The executive may pass | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
the budget for next year ahead of time and has been dealt with by the | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
assembly as it should. Because of the paramilitary violence issue, the | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
panel on paramilitary issues has been set up man has begun its work. | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
They are trying to tackle paramilitary and is him and crime | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
that happened before Christmas. The executive has also been very seized | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
of the importance of progressing because at the end of the day we | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
have made very clear that when crisis occur we are not prepared to | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
sweep these matters under the carpet. They must be faced by | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
everyone. We want to seek Northern Ireland move forward. There must be | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
a commitment not only in words about democracy but practice as well. We | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
in these benches and back in the assembly have been elected as | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
representatives of the people and will not allow these matters to be | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
in north. We will not allow these matters to be used as a political | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
football for point scoring. We are serious about these issues and want | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
them addressed and addressed properly. I am glad Mr Deputy | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
Speaker that the executive has agreed for the production of | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
corporation tax rates that commenced on April 20 18. The reduction to | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
12.5% is an extremely important additional -- addition to the range | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
of attractions that the invest Northern Ireland team will be able | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
to go out to promote across the world to possible investors. I very | :43:32. | :43:41. | |
much welcome our gratitude to the government for their support for | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
this matter. There are many parties and people who get up in Corporation | :43:46. | :43:52. | |
tax. Our party never gave up on it. Some people said that if it was not | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
over and done with it would never have happened. We did not give up on | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
it. I want to pay tribute to the former First Minister of Northern | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
Ireland, Peter Roberts. He is very important and recognised the value | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
of having this in place. I want to play tribute to him for the work | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
that he did in making this fresh start agreement happen. His | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
commitment to ensuring that there would be stability in terms of | :44:22. | :44:24. | |
dilution cannot be underestimated, and he deserves a amount of credit | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
for this agreement. The corporation tax was something he felt very | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
strongly about an hour party has always believed in. I am glad that | :44:34. | :44:42. | |
this is now proceeding. When the new Mr of goes to New York and | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
Washington and the West Coast in March, along with the Deputy First | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
Minister and others, the strength of her argument to invest in northern | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
Ireland has been greatly increased as a result of this agreement. She | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
can point to the coming of this tax reduction is another reason why | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
there should be investment in Northern Ireland. The legislation in | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
relation to reducing the number of MLA and re-organizing and reducing | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
the number of government departments is also nearing completion. As we | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
hear tomorrow there will be further debate on that. The assembly has | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
passed a resolution to allow unofficial opposition to be created | :45:22. | :45:24. | |
that this work has been taken forward by the assembly and the | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
authorities. Nominations have been softened the parties and | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
applications often the public. This is regarded to the flags commission. | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
We expect that to be completed by the March. All in all the progress | :45:37. | :45:46. | |
in relation to the Fresh Start Agreement has been very very | :45:47. | :45:54. | |
positive. This has heralded a better atmosphere and the micro one things | :45:55. | :46:02. | |
are getting done. Mr Deputy Speaker it is an interesting comment with | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
the media that when there is a holdup the assembly and a massive | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
issue of confrontational and political issues and visit 99, there | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
is a massive tension and a mass of commentaries. We don't hear the same | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
reporting and level of discussion in the media and on the radio and on | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
television when things are actually getting done day by day. When | :46:28. | :46:36. | |
legislation is being passed is as if nothing is happening at all. There | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
is no reporting at all hard fiscal. I don't hear any of it. I think it | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
isn't even interesting commentary on how sometimes good news and positive | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
development and progress is underreported massively. Anything | :46:50. | :46:56. | |
negative in Northern Ireland is given much attention. I think it is | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
worth reminding that other members have already said that we do have to | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
sometimes pulled the record at the distance of where Northern Ireland | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
has come from. The progress that has been made from the backward steps | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
and the ups and downs, we have made enormous progress. The political | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
institutions which came back after this the boundary agreement has | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
provided an much more stable environment. I believe it that needs | :47:28. | :47:38. | |
to be celebrated. The store that will appear in tomorrow's newspaper | :47:39. | :47:41. | |
will be a photograph of a number of members in this chamber. Such a | :47:42. | :47:55. | |
class story weekend week out. There is just interest when Northern | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
Ireland is being discussed compared to when issues of the European Union | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
are being discussed. Mr Deputy Speaker in relation to these issues | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
I will say quality not quantity is what matters. If the press and the | :48:10. | :48:22. | |
media. Hear, hear!. LAUGHTER. Every single member that is here is of the | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
highest quality I have to stay. I certainly welcome those who are here | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
for this debate, particularly members from constituencies outside | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
of Northern Ireland and those we serve on the select committee and to | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
have taken an interest in Northern Ireland matters. Their support and | :48:41. | :48:43. | |
interest in northern Ireland is greatly wrecked -- welcome and we | :48:44. | :48:51. | |
value that indeed. I have already commented on some of the issues of | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
press and media reporting. Mr Deputy Speaker there are. We can go into | :48:58. | :49:06. | |
detail on independent reporting commission and other matters. As the | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
second debate, but there will be more opportunities on the floor of | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
the House. I welcome the cooperation that there has been between the | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
government and the opposition from the bench at how this bill should | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
proceed. Parliamentary scrutiny should happen and as I say we | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
understand the reasons why this needs to be fast tracked. This is | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
not a crisis but a sense of wanting to make sure progress continues to | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
be made and is in place before the assembly election. We wish this bill | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
well. In fact those that have been as possible for the agreement and | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
bring it forward and those that have worked so hard to bring the second | :49:53. | :49:58. | |
reading of the bill to fruition. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I want | :49:59. | :50:05. | |
to speak briefly on the bill and what I perceive to be a number of | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
flaws. I think we need to address is at the next age. Parliament -- | :50:11. | :50:21. | |
paramilitary activity continues to be a problem for our society in | :50:22. | :50:23. | |
Northern Ireland not just for our own constituency but there were some | :50:24. | :50:30. | |
gunned down in the last 12 months. Such events but may not be as common | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
as they once were. But they still exist and they still happen in our | :50:38. | :50:44. | |
streets. These to issues are a stark reminder that paramilitary activity | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
still exists. Merely to days after the good Friday agreement was | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
signed. The talks that led to this bill and throughout we were very | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
clear that a whole community approach is imperative. To rule out | :50:59. | :51:05. | |
paramilitary activity for once and for all. Parties that seem to | :51:06. | :51:12. | |
indulge in any type of parliamentary activity. Under any circumstances at | :51:13. | :51:18. | |
any time should not be limited to certain groups were certain | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
individuals or activity for certain constituencies. There should be no | :51:23. | :51:29. | |
exclusions. It requires an unequivocal and universal | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
condemnation and a united front by all Democratic Party. Any | :51:34. | :51:46. | |
paramilitary behaviour or structure are an affront of democracy not just | :51:47. | :51:49. | |
for Northern Ireland or anywhere else that may exist and should not | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
be accepted. From our perspective the blight continued and obstructed | :51:54. | :52:01. | |
and undermined in every opportunity for economic recovery and this is an | :52:02. | :52:10. | |
economic imperative that we desperately need in Northern Ireland | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
and the light of some of the needs of the last couple of weeks. The | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
pledge proposed by the bill to be undertaken by ministers of MLA is in | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
the right direction. The content of that pledge I would argue requires | :52:22. | :52:28. | |
further scrutiny to protect in transition that move away from | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
paramilitary activity. We in the STL T fully realise that ridding our | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
society of paramilitary activity will by no means be an overnight | :52:38. | :52:45. | |
process. The support transition has been allowed and cannot be allowed | :52:46. | :52:52. | |
any further and to become quiet tolerance or seen as the degree of | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
tolerance to paramilitary activity. Mr Speaker I can move along, the big | :52:57. | :53:03. | |
absence of this bill is of course a reference to the legacies of the | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
past and particularly issues pertaining to legacy. We have made | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
our views clear on this. The victims and survivors and their needs must | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
be paramount. Claims about national security preventing disclosure can | :53:21. | :53:28. | |
not and must not... There is no degree to block every effort to | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
block the truth or transparency. Northern Ireland society can not | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
just move on and forget about the past. They cannot abandon the heart | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
and needs of the victims and survivors. The wounds of the past | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
must be healed and the victims and survivors across our society I | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
believe have waited for to long. For many of them this bill or another | :53:54. | :54:01. | |
bill if it's coming we would like to see it sooner rather than later, is | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
the last chance and last real chance for any sort of meaningful truth and | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
genuine justice. It is perfectly understandable that so many of these | :54:11. | :54:17. | |
people still enormously let down. They feel let down by the shortfalls | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
not just here but of other bills in the past. Dealing with the past and | :54:22. | :54:30. | |
the legacy of the past, has been far to much of a piece exercise. We will | :54:31. | :54:38. | |
work to amend this bill at the backstage and then the other bill | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
that may emerge. We will amend it in the context of the needs of the | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
victims and survivors and the needs of communities that have been | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
blanketed and tortured by paramilitary activity. Mr Deputy | :54:51. | :54:58. | |
Speaker there are other bits of this bill that we would welcome some | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
reference in it to some of the issues that have been left out. We | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
would like to see much greater progress on dealing with flag | :55:06. | :55:13. | |
parading. These are proponents of disturbance and they are also an | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
addition to dealing with the legacy of the past. The Secretary of State | :55:18. | :55:24. | |
raise the issue referring to the economy. We don't talk during the | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
talks of storm a house about the need for an overall comprehensive | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
economic recovery strategy and prosperity strategy but somewhere it | :55:34. | :55:39. | |
has been forgotten about. Yes corporation tax has been mentioned. | :55:40. | :55:46. | |
We talked of corporation tax 20 years ago and have fully supported | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
over 20 years between. But there is an issue of corporation tax. | :55:51. | :55:53. | |
Corporation tax will not do everything. There is a desperate | :55:54. | :56:01. | |
need for third level education, training, apprenticeships, and | :56:02. | :56:03. | |
skills development to go along with it. This will develop a better | :56:04. | :56:11. | |
economy. Secretary of State I would be keen if there have been some | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
mention or reference to the economy and the prosperity process included | :56:15. | :56:21. | |
here. I know there are issues that you want to do with urgently. But | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
there are needs regarding the economic situation. The economic | :56:28. | :56:39. | |
needs are dire. I just want to say that like Northern Ireland the UK | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
Government is committed to increasing first rarity in Northern | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
Ireland. What we do together is the economic tag and this is the main | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
vehicle. Just because it was nice person referred to in the Fresh | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
Start Agreement, does not mean we won't bring that about. Thank you | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
Secretary of State for that reassurance. I would look forward to | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
further stages of this bill and the opportunity to flesh it out and | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
amended in the places where appropriate, to ensure that the fill | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
is as comprehensive as possible and does all that it is expected | :57:15. | :57:21. | |
May I start with getting hours of the to the owner memo -- honourable | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
member for losing has a sensitive and huge thanks to him and many | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
members before who have helped, whether it is through the committee | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
or other ways, there are a mass of people always trying to help us get | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
somewhere. I welcome the legislation today although I have doubts and | :57:44. | :57:45. | |
still have doubts in various areas as we go through. We did feel at the | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
time that it was a sticking class rather than a chance to have a | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
rebirth of Stormont, although I welcome the changes that are going | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
on. But we'll wait to see whether they are really get there and I am | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
speaking touch on the changes and things we would like to see in this | :58:06. | :58:11. | |
bill or concerns that I would like to raise when it comes to the | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
appointing of the Independent reporting commission by the DSM. We | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
think that should be expanded, too much of what happens in Northern | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
Ireland is done by the two main parties, we think we should be | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
finding a different way, whether through the Northern Ireland | :58:31. | :58:32. | |
appointments commission, it to be something that moves away from just | :58:33. | :58:39. | |
two main parties. I welcome in it that they guidance will be left in | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
place the Secretary of State, I that is necessary to have some body | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
outside of ourselves that would help move us along. Although I realise it | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
is a poison chalice and in time what made need the wisdom of a Solomon. | :58:55. | :58:58. | |
But we do need guidance at time. I know it falls on our shoulders most | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
of the time, but it's something I have always been pushing since I got | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
here, we must not have a devolved and forget. We must have Westminster | :59:07. | :59:12. | |
working with Stormont and working together, not leaving things to | :59:13. | :59:15. | |
Stormont when they get stuck but actually working through with it. | :59:16. | :59:21. | |
One of the key points and I am hoping to see it in the bill, is the | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
change from seven to 14 days to try and get a programme for Government | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
in place. I think for that, we must remember it that the honourable | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
member said when he was leader of the party, who actually put that | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
idea forward to try and get a longer time to try and get the different | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
ministers all chosen but in line with the overall programme for | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
government and I hope that 14 days will actually get that. And if there | :59:50. | :59:56. | |
is any doubt it would be with the Secretary of State looking to get in | :59:57. | :59:59. | |
place something that can make that happen. It is not just ministers but | :00:00. | :00:02. | |
a joint programme for government well into the future. I very much | :00:03. | :00:09. | |
welcome everything to do with trying to remove Holloman and Tip -- | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
paramilitaries for Northern Ireland and they were very much a kind | :00:15. | :00:22. | |
raising this to the top the House. But I would like the secretary of | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
state and minister to make clear exactly what is meant by | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
paramilitary because as this moves on and forward in legislation, I am | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
sure that is where we are going to find mandate of our difficulties. Is | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
someone knocking on a door when it comes to bonfires asking for funding | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
to help pay for the bonfire, all they going to be told that they are | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
paramilitaries? There are a whole lot of weight areas that need to be | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
clarified. -- grey areas. Dusan putting of the union flag him to be | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
a paramilitary because over numerous years before us, the union flag | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
which should be a flag of all of us were not offensive to anyone has | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
been turned for some members of the community into a sectarian flag | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
which it should not be. Therefore is someone who is putting up that flag | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
going to be treated as a paramilitary? We need clarity in the | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
future and we need to talk our way through. In one story that happened | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
in my area, boys were going to take the standards into the local church | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
and they were refused from taking the union flag into the church due | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
to one party blocking it and saying it was sectarian. We need to stop | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
that from happening. Other clarity points, I am very lucky when I | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
started off the council to go to France with a group of what would | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
have been known as the bonfire groups. We had in those days, | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
120,000 to clear up after the bonfires and we had 11 different | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
groups, who all did not talk to each other, all could be called community | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
stronger titles than that but by stronger titles than that but by | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
going away from that, it allowed us to get them talking to each other, | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
find forward and commonalities existing and in time produce -- | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
reduce the number of bonfires, not all of them, and the next time it | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
only cost 40,000 to clear up. We have to be absolutely clear, our MLA | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
is and others who are talking about this, we will see if they are being | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
deemed as paramilitaries to be dealing with paramilitaries when we | :02:29. | :02:38. | |
may need clarity on that. I touched on -- a member from North Downs and | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
touched on this. We need teeth and something that will allow us to | :02:45. | :02:51. | |
enforce whether MLA, ministers or others are actually abiding with | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
some way to enforce that in the some way to enforce that in the | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
future. It is something we ought do together. I agree with what has been | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
raised before and and had been discussed whether we should try to | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
get IDSA into this bill because it is essential that we get something | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
much better into Northern Ireland because if you talk to some able in | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
Northern Ireland they find that expenses were not controlled and do | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
not think that anyone except responsibilities when they have done | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
anything wrong. There is so much that gives that with corruption and | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
things not being right, we have to have some form of teeth and this | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
seems to do it extremely well. So let's try to get it in. When it | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
comes to the opposition, it is great to hear that there is movement from | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
the opposition in the Northern Ireland but I feel we may need to | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
look at how one or two things in this bill that allows us to improve | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
on the opposition and improve on whether it is the finance, how | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
committees amend, so that we can get something that really is proper and | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
we have to be very careful on how we deal with that and we all need to | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
work together. When it comes to the Legacy issues, I long to see that | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
happening. I know we had differences of the time, at least it needs to be | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
done quickly, but not so fast that we do not get the chance to talk and | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
have our say. But it is vital that Northern Ireland finds a way forward | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
that moves us away from all of the legacy issues to something that is | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
really going to thrive and we can build on it together. We had many | :04:28. | :04:35. | |
mention of corporation taxes as we mentioned before, corporation tax is | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
not the silver bullet. We have a mass of other things to do together, | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
we want Corporation taxes. It is a difference on how corporation tax | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
was actually going to work, some of them here really slowed it up but | :04:52. | :04:53. | |
let us get something else in place, better infrastructure, changes, I | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
whole muscle changes coming. I look forward on that build being a start | :05:00. | :05:09. | |
to Northern Ireland improving. Could I first of all page should be up to | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
the Secretary of State and to the Minister for the work done to bring | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
forward this bill, having been involved in much of the negotiations | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
in the past, I would say in all honesty, I think at times we should | :05:25. | :05:32. | |
give merit where it is due. The Secretary of State has gone way over | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
my estimation in terms of the very clear stance she has taken on | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
issues, both in the public domain and privately around the negotiating | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
table. She has done so with great clarity and I think that is | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
something to be welcomed from a Secretary of State. I am very | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
eagerly supported by the Minister as well. But I also pay tribute to Mark | :05:52. | :06:01. | |
who worked for my honourable friend, I had the pleasure of meeting marked | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
on a number of occasions including when he took an interest in Northern | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
Ireland and I know that Lawrence and his team will feel his loss very | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
deeply and we extend on our side of the House our sympathy to the | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
honourable member for two Experian and to Mark Boss family. Tackling | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
paramilitary -ism is an important element of this agreement. It is | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
something that is long overdue. We as a party have pressed time and | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
time again for the paramilitaries to leave the stage and at times I have | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
listened to their spokespersons in the media bag about their | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
contribution to the police process but deliver little by way of | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
actually taking the steps that are necessary. They have been far too | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
long begrudging about the necessary steps of organizations needing to be | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
taken and they have continued to straddle the fence between democracy | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
and the rule of law on one side and continued involvement in criminality | :07:15. | :07:22. | |
and sadly, at times, in murder. One of the reasons we had the crisis | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
last year in Northern Ireland, the political crisis was precisely | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
because of that continued vomit in criminal activity and in carrying | :07:33. | :07:41. | |
out murders as the honourable member reminded us. Those murders took | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
place in his constituency. We need to be absolutely clear that there is | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
no room for ambiguity, no room for grey areas, straddling the fence | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
involvement in criminality and involvement in criminality and | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
paramilitary -ism. We deserve better in Northern Ireland and that is why | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
it is vital that we continue to pursue this agenda which the | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
Stormont agreement marks a very significant step in taking it | :08:11. | :08:26. | |
forward. I know the honourable gentleman is condemning paramilitary | :08:27. | :08:38. | |
-ism whatever shape or form,. I would like the right honourable | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
gentleman to put on record his thanks and many things that people | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
that we have just completed yet another search for the remains of | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
Lisa who disappeared 11 years ago, murdered by those with paramilitary | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
connections. The family have never had her returned for a Christian | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
burial and her mother died brokenhearted and I am grateful to I | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
honourable Desmond for his stance on paramilitary. I think the honourable | :09:11. | :09:18. | |
member for her intervention and she of course speaks of the individual | :09:19. | :09:27. | |
and personal family suffering of the victims of paramilitary violence and | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
let me be clear, as a party we are clear, that when we refer to | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
paramilitarism being paramilitarism across the political divide, I have | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
the pleasure of taking the Secretary of State and also the saddle | :09:44. | :09:44. | |
Secretary of State to Lisbon to Secretary of State to Lisbon to | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
visit a community project in my constituency where we have worked | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
very hard with those who were previously involved in paramilitary | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
activity to enable them to complete the transition to what is now purely | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
community development work and those communities are being transformed as | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
a result. In my constituency, a community transformed as a result of | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
the transition of those previously involved in paramilitarism to be | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
involved in purely community development and I commend the | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
leadership in Lisbon for what they have done in transforming the | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
community and making the transition that I assure the honourable Lady | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
that is precisely the kind of effort that we need to see taking place in | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
Northern Ireland. It is one of the tragedies of any conflict and our | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
troubles in Northern Ireland that we have families who not only have | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
suffered the loss of a loved one, but have not been able to mourn | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
properly because of their loved ones remains not being returned to them. | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
The family of Lisa is a case and point. And we hope and pray that one | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
day they will at least have the grace of being able to bury the | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
remains of their daughter. I would appeal to people who know where the | :11:12. | :11:13. | |
remains are to get that information to the police and I appeal to them | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
on the grounds of the basic Christian pretzels that even those | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
who have been involved in such wrongdoing should see that it is the | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
right thing and a family should be able to have some degree of closure | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
in terms of at least having their loved one's remains returned. The | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
bill makes provision for the establishment of the Independent | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
reporting commission and we welcome this. The commission is to report | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
annually on progress toward ending continued paramilitary activity and | :11:48. | :11:54. | |
we hope they will shine a spotlight very clearly on the Republican and | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
Loyalist paramilitary groups who are continuing to engage in criminal | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
acts and in acts of violence. It is not only the case that that will | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
apply to Northern Ireland, I think one of the important provisions of | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
this is that it will also apply in Great Britain and in the Republic of | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
Ireland and in recent times we have seen the effects of paramilitary | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
gangster type activity in Dublin, which is unacceptable, and we must | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
all co-operate to ensure that such activity is brought to an end. I | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
hope the good people of the Republic of Ireland to go to the polls in a | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
short time will think long and hard about who they are electing to their | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
national parliament and where they stand on questions like these | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
special criminal Court and the need to bring to an end paramilitarism | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
and gangster activity and criminality wherever it develops and | :12:50. | :12:58. | |
emerges. We also welcome the changes to the pledge of office for | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
ministers for the Northern Ireland Executive. I am crucially a new | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
undertaking which is to be given by all members elected to the assembly | :13:09. | :13:17. | |
after me which will commit them to nonviolence, to supporting the rule | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
of law. We think this is very important and there has not been | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
such an undertaking required in the past, even though it is required for | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
counsellors and noble government and I think the honourable member is | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
absolutely right, we need to be sure that it is not just a question of | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
undertaking but that there are sanctions in place that if members | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
preach that undertaking that they preach that undertaking that they | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
can be held to account. I assure the honourable lady that we will be | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
examining the current standing orders of the Northern Ireland | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
Assembly to see if such a sanction exists and if it does not, we will | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
be prepared to bring forward a supporting amendment to this bill to | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
ensure there is provision for such a sanction. The honourable member has | :14:00. | :14:08. | |
made reference to what has gone on in this bill. It is a matter that we | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
are not yet able to legislate for the provisions of the Stormont House | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
agreement, dealing with legacy matters. Let me be clear. From this | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
side of the House and this party, we support full implementation of the | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
Stormont House agreement. There is nothing that the Democratic Union | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
nest party is doing -- Unionist party. We are all aware that the | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
reason we have not had implementation is because of a stand | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
off, and impasse, which involves the question of national security. And | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
member. When he talks about victims, member. When he talks about victims, | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
I am not just interested in the victims of the past but also Hecking | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
sure we do not have more victims in the future. -- making sure. We take | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
action that compromises the security of our people, when we take actions | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
which bring into the public domain in the manner in which the security | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
forces operate to counterterrorism, then we take risks in Northern | :15:14. | :15:21. | |
Ireland. We create the potential for future victims because sadly not | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
everybody has signed up for the peace process. Not all paramilitary | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
activities are on cease-fire. There are people out there today targeting | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
in my own constituency in the past weeks I have two instances of prison | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
officers having to leave their homes because of the threat from dissonant | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
Republican organizations. The fact that there was knowledge and | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
intelligence that thankfully has prevented those attacks from going | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
ahead tells us that our security services are continuing to operate | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
to prevent loss of life and further victims from being created. I would | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
say to the honourable member from South Belfast that yes, we want the | :16:09. | :16:16. | |
maximum disclosure that is available, but we also need to | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
ensure that the security of the people we represent is protected. | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
Yes, we want the victims of terrorism to have processes that are | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
in place that enable them to have some degree of closure and enable | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
them to have access to justice. To have access to information. But at | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
the same time we must not compromise the ability and security forces to | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
protect the community in Northern Ireland today and to prevent further | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
victims in the future. On the national security issue, we really | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
should not be giving, no Democratic Party should be giving power to | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
those on this issue because we know what the game is. We know it is | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
about rewriting the history of the troubles and it is about pretending | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
against the reality that of all the deaths that have occurred in the | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
troubles, 90% of those killings were carried out by paramilitary | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
organizations. 90%. Yet if you follow the media coverage, reading | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
the newspaper and look at the amount of money spent on investigations and | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
inquests, far more proportionately far more of that resource and media | :17:28. | :17:34. | |
coverage goat on the 10% of deaths that are attributed to the state. | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
Many of them are debts that were a result of the security forces | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
killing people who were engaging in acts of terrorism, but far more | :17:45. | :17:51. | |
emphasis and resource goes on those debts than on the 90% of people. | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
Murdered by it paramilitary organizations. I agree with him | :17:57. | :18:04. | |
about letting the issues of the 90% versus the 10%, but even beyond | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
that, it appears to be the case that in some instances where the | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
provisional IRA atrocities, even those in the main set are trying to | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
be blamed upon the security forces, the police, and the Army. So the | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
abysmal audacity of some people has no bounds whatsoever beyond what the | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
member has declared so far. I think the honourable member for that | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
intervention. He is absolutely right. We see constantly this mantra | :18:37. | :18:48. | |
that is it is not just a question of 90% versus 10% of killings, the | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
state was somehow responsible for directing many of the paramilitary | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
related deaths, no one with any rational thought in their head is | :18:59. | :19:00. | |
going to fall for that absolute nonsense. Of the republican | :19:01. | :19:10. | |
movement. When we consider that there is now an investigation from | :19:11. | :19:18. | |
outside of Northern Ireland into the actions of an agent known as | :19:19. | :19:27. | |
Steakknife, the emphasis is all on the killings that he allegedly may | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
have been involved in but the question for me is, who was | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
directing Steakknife? Who was giving the orders to him to carry out the | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
investigations, these internal investigations of alleged Republican | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
informers. Who was giving the orders? It was the IRA Army Council, | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
some of who we know at the time are now very senior political figures in | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
Northern Ireland. The very same people who point the finger at the | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
Secretary of State and the government, but as I have said | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
recently in a radio interview, there are far more fingers pointing back | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
in their direction when it comes to these issues. I will give way. The | :20:10. | :20:17. | |
audacity of the IRA in this matter I think needs to be highlighted. It is | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
not just something that affects Northern Ireland. We also have the | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
case now affecting murders on the mainland. The Birmingham case, there | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
is an attitude and attempt to blame the security services in England for | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
the Birmingham bombing, that is absolutely atrocious and I think we | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
honourable member for Northampton is honourable member for Northampton is | :20:44. | :20:50. | |
absolutely right. Let me be clear, we apply the same, whether it is | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
Republican related murders or other related murders. We applied the | :20:56. | :21:03. | |
same. The idea that the you BF would be exonerated from the north Ireland | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
killings because of allegations of collusion is just as perverse and | :21:09. | :21:16. | |
absurd as the idea that the IRA would somehow be exonerated from the | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
massacres and murders that they committed in the past. The same | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
applies on both sides. In conclusion, we want to see progress | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
in dealing with the Legacy issues. We want to see the historical | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
investigations unit established with full police to investigate the | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
unsolved murders. As I talk to the innocent victims and they look on | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
what has happened and they feel they are not being given a fair crack, | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
they are not given the opportunity and we must try to move this on. In | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
the interim, I did say before with the Secretary of State, we hope that | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
when the first Minister supported the call for resources that have | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
Artie been sort of micro set aside Artie been sort of micro set aside | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
-- already have been set aside for the him legacy investigation unit | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
though that that money is not coming from Northern Ireland, there is a | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
need for the investigation to continue dealing with current crime | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
and current terrorist threats and therefore we do not want to see the | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
police budget led by continued drawing down of resource toward the | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
legacy cases. They need to be investigated, absolutely, we hope | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
the Secretary of State will listen to what people have said, with the | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
first Minister has said, and allow some of that resource to be freed up | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
to be transferred to the investigators to enable them to do | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
more to help the innocent victims of terrorism. I welcome progress on | :22:49. | :22:55. | |
this bill and piece of legislation this bill and piece of legislation | :22:56. | :23:05. | |
aspects. They have been born for aspects. They have been born for | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
some time. Firstly the continuing action of terrorist activities | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
within Northern Ireland. Beyond Northern Ireland as well. But also | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
as my honourable friend from Southampton has alluded to, there is | :23:21. | :23:28. | |
more time after elections to lead discussions and go one, we hope | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
those two weeks will give more time and I think it would be beneficial | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
for Northern Ireland in the next assembly and beyond that. I look on | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
those as very positive aspects and something to be... The issue of | :23:43. | :23:51. | |
extension of time for negotiations was brought forward by ourselves as | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
far as 2011, five years ago. I am almost tempted to go into some | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
aspects that are not in the bill, but I think I will stay away from | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
that today because you have enough with the bill. Except to say that | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
the legacy issues would not have been dealt with at some stage, -- | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
will be dealt with at some stage, but I will say to you and to the | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
Secretary of State that we need quality and fairness within any | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
inquiries and investigations and that is something that has not been | :24:29. | :24:30. | |
seen at the moment. One aspect is seen at the moment. One aspect is | :24:31. | :24:37. | |
that an example, the legacy unit, I understand they have... That is | :24:38. | :24:50. | |
fine. The problem is there is not one officer currently investigating | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
that. There is a huge difference and in balance with the net. -- that. | :24:55. | :25:03. | |
The first aspect of the bill at the moment, that is the issue around | :25:04. | :25:11. | |
commission to look at terrorist activities or paramilitary | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
activities. We must look at the history of some of the immediate | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
history since the agreements have been signed, the Belfast agreement, | :25:19. | :25:27. | |
and the you BF and other terrorist organizations that we mentioned, | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
they have been responsible for some brutal murders. We have just heard a | :25:32. | :25:40. | |
member mentioned, that is a terrible affliction on her family as well. To | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
have to go through that day in and day out. I cannot imagine what that | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
is like. But on the opposite side of Republican movements, and | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
particularly in the IRA who have been responsible for some brutal | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
murders. Let's not forget it has been mentioned in the past that the | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
IRA are extractable is linked with other organizations. You just think | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
of some the murders that have taken place. Denis Donaldson, and more | :26:10. | :26:20. | |
recently Kevin McGuian. One thing that jump-started me is not only the | :26:21. | :26:27. | |
brutality about it but the clinical way those murders were carried out. | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
The planned execution. That could only be done by an organisation of | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
the ability of the IRA. Let's not forget that indeed the chief | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
constable said that the IRA still exists, but the Army Council still | :26:45. | :26:51. | |
exists. That is something that we need to deal with. The issue that | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
the IRA still exists, the Army Council still exists, and our extra | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
googly linked to government. That is a major question that will hang over | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
the executive and the Northern Ireland people for years to come. -- | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
inextricably. Indeed someone who may still be a member of the Army | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
Council will have the privilege of being representatives to this | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
commission. Happy to give way. With the member agrees may that he is | :27:28. | :27:34. | |
outlining the case for the IRA being one and the same, would he agree | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
with me that in all probability, in the two weeks after the assembly | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
election, that will remain the case whenever decisions have to be made | :27:46. | :27:47. | |
in the executive barometer? I don't disagree with the Honorable | :27:48. | :27:57. | |
member indeed, this remained the case for some time now, it will | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
continue to remain the case irrespective of what this commission | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
comes up with. I think that will still remain the issue and will | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
still remain a huge? Over some people pause possibility or right to | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
remain a senior member of the executive. But a Deputy Speaker, | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
moving into the second part of the bill which is a pledge of office for | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
administers and undertaking for MLS, and delight that is welcome I | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
suppose, I have major concerns around the effectiveness of it. The | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
Honorable member for North Downs did indicate that she is concerned | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
around a matter of sanctions and how those sanctions will be applied, if | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
there is any at all. I agree with that and whether we can actually do | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
something about that here, may be an issue for the next reading on the | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
committee stages of this bill and the secretary of State will come | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
back with any suggestions around that. But, if there is a bout around | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
the pledge or undertaking, if make any difference at all, I have to say | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
when some people want and murdered in the past, I am not so sure they | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
were taking a pledge of office, ministerial office or taking an | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
undertaking as assembly members who will make much difference to them, I | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
think if they could do that in the past, I didn't think this is going | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
to make a huge amount of difference. Moving on to the third aspect of the | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
legislation which is the commitment on statements within the budget. | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
Agree in the financial provisions and budget this was a major problem | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
within the executive four months, that is why it is welcome that we | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
are trying to progress that matter, in many departments they suffered | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
greatly within that blockage or because of that blockage, health | :29:49. | :29:56. | |
waiting lists rocketed, and infrastructure developments almost | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
came to a standstill, and carrying for the elderly and those for local | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
people were greatly diminished within our society, that is | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
something I suppose that we all feel very sore about, particularly if you | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
were carried within a society that she did not have that help and | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
support because of that critical long-term within a society. Again I | :30:19. | :30:21. | |
come back to the issue of sanctions, we have heard what the sanctions are | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
for the pledge of office and the undertakings. What will be the | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
sanction if the project or financial undertakings are not lived up to as | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
well? That is not appear to be any sanction, it is almost as if this | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
process for those that were delivered, the process and stop the | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
benefit of getting a financial deal for everyone else. In conclusion, | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker I do welcome the progress but I will confirm if | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
the proposals in the legislation will deliver on the aspects of | :30:54. | :31:01. | |
terrorism, and commitment to the budgetary and financial resolutions. | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
I will give way. Did he just say that the member should be congrats | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
for the legal case where sanctions were imposed and someone who treated | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
evil about him and the organisation, a very gallant organisation he was a | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
member of, and I think that's the key is demonstrating whether there | :31:25. | :31:26. | |
is a vehicle around and sometimes that is the best sanction. Frankly, | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
the Honorable member I thank him for his comments, obviously it is still | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
running on an rubbing on, yes we have got a sanction of some degree | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
their, and hopefully the assemblies in this house here can provide | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
sanctions. These proposals as well and within this legislation. I will | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
await as many others here will await just to see the outcomes and see the | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
workings of what is being proposed here. I have some concerns as you | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
would appreciate around the workings of some on their particular | :32:01. | :32:11. | |
sanctions,. Thank you letter that I am delighted to participate in the | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
second reading of this bill tonight. And initially I want to offer my | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
condolences to the Honorable member for his bereavement of his staff | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
member and also to my Honorable friend the member in his family | :32:28. | :32:29. | |
bereavement that happened last night. Madam Deputy Speaker, this | :32:30. | :32:38. | |
bill in its generality deals with trying to eradicate paramilitarism. | :32:39. | :32:46. | |
I want to emphasise again as it has already been done so by my Honorable | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
friend, member for South Belfast, over consistent support for | :32:54. | :33:00. | |
political and economic stability throughout Northern Ireland and | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
throat the island of Ireland. What also and above all, our unequivocal | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
opposition to all forms of paramilitarism. Whether it comes | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
from Republicans paramilitaries or loyalist paramilitaries because | :33:16. | :33:23. | |
paramilitarism and what it bad and what its bond created not only | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
instability it created fear, and it also was like a cancer running | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
throughout our society. And there were also other issues because of an | :33:36. | :33:45. | |
age was already referred to by the Honorable Mayor Ashe member about | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
the associated issues, and I can think of one in my own constituency | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
that you referred to. The murder of the innocent men on the 18th of | :33:53. | :34:00. | |
June, 1994. In night I will never forget, because two people that were | :34:01. | :34:07. | |
murdered that night were directly related to my relatives, one an | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
uncle in another a cousin. Therefore in that respect, I know the | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
character of this people, and that they are only political act on any | :34:15. | :34:22. | |
occasion was to register their vote. Never buy a word or a date did they | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
undertake any form of paramilitary activity. But they died at the butt | :34:27. | :34:36. | |
of a gun and it there've therefore I would say to the Secretary of State, | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
that your comments on the 11th of February where in some ways unfair | :34:41. | :34:53. | |
because at the moment it is undertaking and nearing the | :34:54. | :34:55. | |
completion of another inquiry into what happened on that night into why | :34:56. | :35:02. | |
it happened, where there are elements of collusion between the | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
then and those who perpetrated those awful crimes on that night, that | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
robbed the community that I represent, but above all that I need | :35:14. | :35:21. | |
in and irrevocably changed our community. Not towards violence in | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
any form, but left people in a state of fear, a community that had never | :35:26. | :35:32. | |
known any form of violence before. So, that and I would urge the | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
Secretary of State in that respect to be particularly careful because | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
your words are the words of the Secretary of State on that day on | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
the 11th of February could be seen, and could be construed as trying to | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
office gave that inquiry by the police which is near completion. | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
That is the second inquiry because the previous inquiry was | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
inconclusive. In many ways it could be perceived as being deliberately | :36:06. | :36:13. | |
inconclusive. I am happy to give way. I listen very carefully to the | :36:14. | :36:25. | |
Honorable Lady's comments, and that future guard for her and I would | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
just like her to put on record this evening her gratitude which stood | :36:31. | :36:41. | |
between the community that is the whole community of Northern Ireland | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
in absolute mayhem through more than 30 years and 302 are UC officers | :36:46. | :36:54. | |
paid the ultimate price in terms of their lives, I am sure the Honorable | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
Lady right to put on record her gratitude for the sacrifice and | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
courage. Can I thank the Honorable Lady for her intervention, I am very | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
conscious, and we were always opposed to the murder of security | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
forces were that those security forces were in the are UC or whether | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
they were in the EDR, because we saw what that did to them and what it | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
did to their families, and again that type of murder, that type of | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
paramilitarism against members of the security forces was totally | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
unacceptable, was condemned by us at the time, and will always be | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
condemned by us, we are very clear about that. But, if I could move on | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
into other issues, there is a clear need in terms of economic stability | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
and to ensure that economic stability is actually embedded into | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
Northern Ireland. That was referred to by the Honorable friend the | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
member forgetting he referred to issues to do with corporation tax, | :37:59. | :38:06. | |
the loss of jobs, last week and the Honorable member for East Belfast | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
constituency, and other job losses. The most important thing that we | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
have to ensure, that existing economic stability in Northern | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
Ireland is protected. And, I say again, what better way to ensure | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
that is through continued membership of the European Union, because we | :38:26. | :38:33. | |
have already export market in the south of Ireland and the UK has that | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
to ready export market in the south of Ireland. And also been able to | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
trade in terms of the wider common market. I could just ask the | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
Secretary of State to reflect on her position in that respect. But, Madam | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
Deputy Speaker if I could move on to elements within the bill. Clause one | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
subsection four actually deals with the Independent reporting | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
commissions. And Deputy First Ministers can nominate two persons, | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
I would suggest they would need to be a legislative input for the | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
Justice Department despite the character of that independent | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
reporting commissions, and it could be argued that any Northern Ireland | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
nominations should be made by the executive is a collective body are | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
chosen for proposals being made by parties. The issues that fall to | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
that independent reporting commissions concerns issues that | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
brought the parties together in September of last year. Those are | :39:39. | :39:46. | |
for directly to the murders of Jerry Davison in the first week of May | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
last year, and also of Kevin Maguire again in August. Both people resided | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
in the constituency of my Honorable friend, the Member for South Belfast | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
constituency. During those negotiations, I am sure that the | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
Secretary of State would recall this as well her colleague, the Minister | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
of state that we in the SDLP circulated papers to the three | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
governments and all parties on a hold enforcement approach and a | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
whole community approach on how to address the issues of | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
paramilitarism. Despite fresh start being designed and managed daily, | :40:26. | :40:33. | |
there should have been all party work on that IRC membership. I would | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
ask the question, how can the work of IRC and its mandate which | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
includes doubling representatives, be reconciled with Sinn Fein's | :40:45. | :40:53. | |
approach and I would like to proceed Secretary of State on precisely how | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
much new monies are to be made available to the national crime | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
agency and the PSN I. When those monies will be released and what | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
will be the script of those monies between the national crime agency | :41:09. | :41:16. | |
and the PSN I. Clause two, subsection three, subsection A deals | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
with national security, MIT that is already being referred to by the | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
Honorable member. So, paramilitarism and commonality is to be addressed, | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
but unfortunately the British Government can invoke national | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
security, and that allows for the protection of agents who do have | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
information and that can impede the very work about the resolution of | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
many cases. Clause six subsection one deals with institutional | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
reforms, and yes 14 days is OK before the appointment of the | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
ministers. But, fresh start for first to our proposal, the parties | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
have to agree to go into executive before the programme for Government | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
has finally agreed. I wonder how the government contemplated any | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
amendment in this proposition? In relation to the project office, it | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
states that one of our ministers, I could hear directly Madam Deputy | :42:19. | :42:21. | |
Speaker from the legislation, support the rule of law | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
unequivocally and to support all efforts to uphold it. How can this | :42:26. | :42:34. | |
be reconciled with Sinn Fein's view on the national crime agency which | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
is a vehicle for the role of law, yet Sinn Fein opposed the motion in | :42:40. | :42:47. | |
the assembly in February 2015 to support in Word and date and refused | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
to endorse it at a recent meeting of the policing Board. How does this | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
new pledge address Sinn Fein's approach on Mr Murphy? Again, the | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
same applies with the pledge of office for assembly members. So, but | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
of Deputy Speaker, there are several issues there. But in the storm in | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
how stocks, and in our submissions to those talks, we have made the | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
point time and time again that the precious or a divided political | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
messages on paramilitarism exacerbates the challenges facing | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
people, trying to move community transitions and graduations away | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
from ingrained paramilitary interests. A united political stance | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
from all parties and a real united political stance from all parties in | :43:43. | :43:50. | |
the assembly is imperative. If we are to enable statutory agencies and | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
community groups to challenge ongoing paramilitary activity which | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
should be condemned out right from what ever works or it comes from. | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
For that reason, the additions, and I repeat again to the ministerial | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
pledge of office, and the undertaking by assembly members are | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
welcome, or for that clarification is required. There is one element of | :44:13. | :44:19. | |
the pledge in particular that requires further scrutiny, they do | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
ask the Secretary of State for some clarification today or the Minister | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
of state who will be responding, the inclusion in the project office and | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
undertaking I MSAs refers to ministers and and many duties to | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
support those are determined to make the away from paramilitarism. So, if | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
we could have some clarification on that, within a paramilitarism is not | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
an overnight process, and scope has to be made for transition. However, | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
this cannot be a video for illegal or other activity by paramilitary | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
groups or manifest themselves as prospective tolerance for different | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
classes of paramilitary behaviour. We as MPs representing Northern | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
Ireland constituencies have seen many examples of paramilitary | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
activity. As I said earlier Madam Deputy Speaker, in my intervention | :45:22. | :45:23. | |
to the Secretary of State, I do regret the fact that there has been | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
no addressing legislative terms of the legacy issues of those matters | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
to deal with, the victims. I would urge that such legislation does come | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
through and as my Honorable friend Andy member has said that such | :45:42. | :45:48. | |
legislation is subjected to detailed scrutiny of this house because we | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
owe it to all the victims and all those who have suffered so terribly | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
as a result of such heinous violence. It was never asked for and | :46:00. | :46:06. | |
never called for. And, in all of this that in the outer workings of | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
all these agreements and in the eye workings of trying to achieve | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
political and economic stability, because that is what we all strive | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
for, and what we all want to see is for the betterment of all of her | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
constituents and for all the citizens of Northern Ireland that we | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
are able to ensure the social justice is provided for and that | :46:30. | :46:36. | |
inequalities that have been in here and across the community for some | :46:37. | :46:39. | |
years are towed to the address and that we do see the sustaining of | :46:40. | :46:47. | |
existing jobs, the provision of new jobs, and the building up of small | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
to medium-sized enterprises. But although jobs to foreign direct | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
investments, I would ask for the Secretary of State and her | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
colleague, the Minister of state work with the Northern Ireland | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
Executive to ensure that that comes about to stop thank you Madam Deputy | :47:07. | :47:14. | |
Speaker. Thank you, can I join with honourable colleagues and the right | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
Honorable colleagues on this side of the House in acknowledging the | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
presence of the Honorable member for church very, again diligent as the | :47:23. | :47:29. | |
chair of the select committee but also in circumstances where he has | :47:30. | :47:36. | |
suffered a close personal loss in terms of the untimely death of Mark | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
Calloway and he has all of our sympathy and can I acknowledge the | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
message from my Honorable member which I will pass on to my sister. | :47:48. | :47:56. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill takes forward aspects of what has | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
been Kolbe start agreement. I did say at the time there was an undue | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
amount of political debris is being attached to that particular | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
agreement because it is not as wide an agreement as for instance the | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
picture on the library paper relating to this bill would suggest | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
because it implies that all the parties are there and it is quite | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
clear it is not just our party but also the alliance party have made it | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
very clear that essentially they see most of this agreement as an | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
agreement between Sinn Fein and the DUP and the British and Irish | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
governments. That does not mean the rest of us do not make very | :48:37. | :48:39. | |
significant contributions in the discussions that were taking place | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
and my Honorable friend the Member for southbound is right to make the | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
point that while other parties were saying a lot in front of the cameras | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
about paramilitarism and how the issue had to be brought to a head, | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
my party was the one party that made actual of suspended paper | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
contributions in relation to how we need to move forward on the issue of | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
paramilitarism with both on the one hand or whole enforcement approach | :49:10. | :49:11. | |
because many parties and many people in the public really believe that a | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
blind eye was being turned to different levels of criminal | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
activity that findings were given to particular people and the government | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
was happy to allow some crime to be continued essentially on the basis | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
that these were personal assets that people now had that somehow so long | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
as these assets and criminal activities were derivative of former | :49:37. | :49:39. | |
paramilitary activities and associations that somehow they were | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
not deemed to be political anymore than they were deemed to be at a | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
number of times a mean the past had asked relevant authorities how some | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
of these assets and activities were being treated we were told they were | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
being treated as personal and not political or organisational in any | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
way. There were many parties that he issues with bats and we heard that | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
in previous debates here in this house from some of the Honorable | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
members sitting behind me in relation to various aspects of | :50:11. | :50:18. | |
smuggling and indeed of course environmental crime. Waste crime, | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
crime involving serious hazardous waste and significant quantities of | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
illegal and hazardous waste as well and clearly there are vestiges of | :50:27. | :50:34. | |
former paramilitary associations of there. It is quite clear that do | :50:35. | :50:42. | |
have those kind of hangover nixes that exists around certain | :50:43. | :50:49. | |
paramilitary groups of people who were former associated with | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
paramilitary groups. We were advocating the whole enforcement | :50:53. | :50:54. | |
which of course they do have to acknowledge, both governments were | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
absolutely adamant in those negotiations that there was no | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
granddad being turned, that all the relevant agencies were pursuing | :51:02. | :51:08. | |
everything they possibly could, both individually and collectively. But | :51:09. | :51:10. | |
the government did accept that maybe dated the to be even more visibility | :51:11. | :51:16. | |
towards that. But it may be needed to be more vocal as well as more | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
visible to which is why we have some of the emphasis that is there in the | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
commitment that have been made in terms of cross-border task force and | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
those sort of efforts. But, we also advocated what he called it whole | :51:34. | :51:36. | |
community approach because we said if we are going to achieve Andy | :51:37. | :51:44. | |
North a whole some society free of all the amenities of paramilitary | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
traces and all of the other hangover divisions from our past, there | :51:50. | :51:51. | |
needed to be a whole community approach to that. In fact in the | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
paper, that we set out and just quote a number of points that we | :51:58. | :51:59. | |
made there, we said political parties ought to be in coherent and | :52:00. | :52:06. | |
consistent shared standards which recognised and reported it and the | :52:07. | :52:08. | |
various paramilitaries and just an involvement. They should reflect the | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
shared approach which is about tooling up paramilitarism Andy Chase | :52:12. | :52:14. | |
activities, not just thinking of particular groups or giving parties. | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
We said party should unite in adhering to the whole community | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
approach to achieving a wholesome community free of sectarianism, | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
division, and vintage vestiges of ongoing paramilitarism. The whole | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
community approach should entail more than challenging paramilitary | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
practices or presences in our own constituencies or highlighting them | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
on someone else's. It should mean that we all seek pernicious | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
paramilitary activity in any corner of the North as an affront to the | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
whole democratic society we should want as the veneration's legacy to | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
the next. Deep cleansing residual habits of paramilitarism should be a | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
key dimension in any programme for cohesion sharing and integration in | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
a healthy United community. But the Deputy Speaker, we also observe that | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
the converse is also pertinent, we cannot eradicate the course to him | :53:09. | :53:16. | |
paramilitarism and given settings without overcoming divisions, | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
tensions, apprehensions, and grievances which paramilitary | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
convert to their own. In calling for that whole community approach, we | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
had the idea of parties making new decorations and they said may be | :53:29. | :53:34. | |
something along the lines of the Mitchell principles or the northern | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
principles of public life. But we wanted was the commitments coming | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
from all of the parties in pledges that would be meaningful and then of | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
course that would be subject to adherence. That is the issue that | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
the Honorable Lady for southbound had touched on in terms of the | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
pledges as they have found a way into this bill. This bill does not | :53:58. | :54:04. | |
give us the idea of the pledges coming from all of the parties and | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
the parties uniting in guaranteeing adherence to those pledges across | :54:11. | :54:13. | |
other preventatives instead what this bill does is take the idea of a | :54:14. | :54:19. | |
pledge and it adds pledge of office for ministers in a number of | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
respects and then it creates a parallel area of pledge or an | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
mayonnaise, of course D speaker when there have been issues and | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
controversies in Northern Ireland on whether or not parties had been | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
consorting with paramilitaries are engaging, the allegation had not | :54:37. | :54:39. | |
just been about MLA or ministers, their easy questions, they are not | :54:40. | :54:48. | |
about the standards as above they make in terms of their commitment to | :54:49. | :54:54. | |
nonviolence. The question also raises were here in this house | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
debating this legislation, the did not apply to the MPs? Are MP3 of the | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
standards. They apply to MLAs and they apply to ministers to a degree, | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
but not I think we need to find a more articulate way than just the | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
pledges as they appear here. And of course the Honorable member for | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
northbound is right in pointing out that there is no way of enforcing a | :55:19. | :55:26. | |
relation to any dispute or controversy. That applies not just | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
to the question of the undertaking members of the assembly, it applies | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
very directly to the pledge of ministers because there is no means | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
of arbitrary unmanaged breaches of the ministerial code. So, the | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
executive does not have a means of doing that, the First Minister have | :55:46. | :55:50. | |
still not found a way are brought forward a clearly of investigating | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
and making a judgement where if they had been breaches of the | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
ministerial, people can take each other to court alleging breaches of | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
the ministerial code. There is not what they should be a sensible, | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
clear, credible mechanism at the level of the executive itself, and | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
similarly such would be needed from the assembly whether to go to the | :56:14. | :56:16. | |
committee of standard and privileges are it is not enough to just be | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
standing orders to decide this to my mind is a higher order political | :56:24. | :56:25. | |
decision than something that it should be decided by a procedures | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
committee in the assembly looking at standing orders. D speaker, that | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
would be mistake that was made years ago in the original 1998 act, the | :56:35. | :56:40. | |
provisions around the petition of concern, the provisions in paragraph | :56:41. | :56:47. | |
11 to 13 were very particular about how limited the use of petitions | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
were to be. They were to be selectively for instances where | :56:53. | :56:54. | |
people were alleging that there was a breach, that there was an issue of | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
human rights or equality, and a mechanism was set up on the basis of | :56:59. | :57:04. | |
concern to test that issue. And then, things would proceed him | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
unfortunately the legislation rather than providing for what was in the | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
Good Friday agreement, the legislation simply said that | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
standing orders would provide for the sorts of devices that were | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
mentioned in those paragraphs and it was never done right which is why we | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
had the very point that the Member for Cech Barry was complaining about | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
what we have a wide open drive-by vehicle state of petition of concern | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
that was used on a tit-for-tat basis and on a frivolous basis. I am | :57:35. | :57:40. | |
grateful my beaker for it giving way, I think he made a strong point | :57:41. | :57:43. | |
about the principles that should be applied in public life, it is not a | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
certain irony that they have just alongside Sinn Fein this evening | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
find a position of concern to retain and enshrine religious | :57:54. | :57:55. | |
discrimination in the selection of teachers in the province? They have | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
signed a petition of concern against a proposal which is coming forward | :58:02. | :58:09. | |
currently yes, just before, it is a matter of trying to protect laws | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
that have already existed and not change them, not change them | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
rationally before an election. Which is also something that the DUP have | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
stated in relation to other aspects as well. In terms of defending the | :58:22. | :58:29. | |
existing equality, the existing equality provisions that are there, | :58:30. | :58:36. | |
clearly it does. What should happen with a protection of concern should | :58:37. | :58:41. | |
be what happens or what was intended under the Good Friday agreement, | :58:42. | :58:44. | |
rather than that being the end of that matter. That matter should then | :58:45. | :58:46. | |
be the subject of an investigation but especially am appointed | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
committee, what issues are involved and that that issue and that the | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
matter proceed. That is the way it should have been as per the | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
agreement, that has been our position as to help petitions of | :59:03. | :59:05. | |
concern should be properly dealt with. And not abused in that sort of | :59:06. | :59:13. | |
way. Let us remember also, when they looked at those pledge of office, | :59:14. | :59:16. | |
the pledge of office, the budget office by ministers and members of | :59:17. | :59:21. | |
the assembly and well the fact that it is confined purely to ministers | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
and to members of the assembly and not the other party politicians. We | :59:27. | :59:29. | |
also need to recognise that the commitments essentially are to work | :59:30. | :59:33. | |
for the ministers to work collectively with the other members | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
and to achieve a society free of paramilitarism. I would hope that | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
the commitments would work and extend to much more than just their | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
ministerial colleagues, and the commitment of a members should | :59:45. | :59:48. | |
extend to more than just working with their SMB colleagues. There is | :59:49. | :59:53. | |
also of course the question of what to some of the terms mean and the | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
Honorable member for getting was right, I think to point out the | :59:59. | :00:07. | |
final stop pledge in both the pledge of office by ministers and SME | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
members which pledges to accept no authority direction or control on | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
political activities other than my democratic mandate alongside my own | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
personal and party judgement. Well, if ministers are saying that in | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
their pledge of office, in the same pledge of office ministers are also | :00:25. | :00:31. | |
pledging to be bound by decisions of the executive and he is saying | :00:32. | :00:33. | |
something that appears to contradict that because it says to accept no | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
direction or control. Other than democratic mandate alongside these, | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
there is a tension there, also of course there would be the issue of | :00:44. | :00:54. | |
if we do fill the gap that the Honorable member for northbound | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
mentioned, if we do fill that gap in terms of creating some clear sense | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
of standards and sanctions around this, then clearly people are going | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
to have to accept some of their political conduct and that there | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
will be listening to others in regards of the standards of | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
behaviours and engagement should be. Therefore again, I think there is a | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
problem which the Honorable member for deadening has been a right to | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
identify. I also want to take up the point that my Honorable friend for | :01:27. | :01:34. | |
southbound had mentioned in respect of the second of the sub pages which | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
is to support those who are determined to make the transition | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
away from paramilitarism, that might seem to be fair enough as a general | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
statement of support, but what does it mean in practice. And also, are | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
there potentially tensions between that and other parts of the pledge | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
to challenge paramilitary attempt to control communities? And the | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
commitment to challenge all paramilitarism activity, because as | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
the right honourable member said in his remarks earlier, he questioned | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
whether or not some of the paramilitary or former personalities | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
who have talked a lot in their contribution to the peace process | :02:22. | :02:29. | |
that they have been in relation to certain standards and certain | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
practices and that they have turned a blind eyes to certain things. The | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
questions are raised as to whether or not when we are criticising or | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
challenging such people, are they then going to be accused of not | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
supporting those who are determined to make the transition away from | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
paramilitarism? Many people use as a justification for their demands for | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
funding for particular schemes, they use as justification for jobs and | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
the rest, this is all about weaning people away from paramilitarism. | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
Other people in the community sometimes challenges because they | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
challenge particular post that became available. And other people | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
were I do think there are issues that we should look at there. And | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
remember we had the very glaring example of the Honorable member for | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
Southdown herself when she was a minister and made a decision to | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
cease to continue funding from her department to the Carthage | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
estimation initiative because the Chief Constable and other senior | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
police officers at the camera making it very glaring that they were being | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
funded and supported by the confidence predation initiative were | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
up to their necks in a series of crimes at that time, there were | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
profile criminal activities taking place at that time, they keep | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
Godzilla made it clear, my Honorable friend brought that matter to the | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
executive, he said that is going to be decided in your department, | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
whenever she did decide it people change their idea and of course | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
other parties then said no, that transformation is supporting people | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
who are trying to make the transition away from paramilitarism. | :04:13. | :04:14. | |
As far as other people were concerned this was money that was | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
going to support people who are up to their neck in crime at that time. | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
So, what is it to be? There are potential tensions even with how any | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
of them could determine any of these clauses here, we could take them in | :04:31. | :04:32. | |
very different directions. Again, work is needed on these to refine | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
them somewhat better as well as making sure someone else can be lots | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
of identity and parties on these issues. The one thing we do not want | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
is parties ended up arguing with each other over paramilitarism are | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
we supposing aspects either now or historically. The more united and | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
coherent parties can be seen to be the better. Remember, we want to | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
make sure that the surprise at all levels, if there are controversies | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
about party politicians turning up at particular events and protests | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
and paramilitaries are there as well do need to be able to do with those | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
issues and make sure that this sort of pledge does govern things that | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
when it comes to controversies like as has been mentioned in this | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
chamber before, for instance it should be clear that we have a | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
pledge that relates to paramilitaries practices either | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
historically or currently that is absolutely consistent and all on the | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
one yardstick. That becomes protection for all the individual | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
politicians would be put under pressure at community level to get | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
involved and then their presence. So the pledge is articulate and robust | :05:52. | :05:59. | |
and could give us a lot there. But under the DD speaker, there are | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
other issues in this ballot before, not in the bill, of course the | :06:05. | :06:12. | |
independent reporting commissions other Honorable members have such an | :06:13. | :06:14. | |
effect that it is the First Minister who will appoint part of the first | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
agreement, whose record was to the executive, it is clear here that I | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
share what others have there, that needs to be the subject of wider | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
consideration and consultation as well. I think there are issues about | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
the secretary of state powers in respect of that commission. The fact | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
that the Secretary of State will be in charge of defining the | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
interpretations around a lot of these things and possibly changing | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
the interpretations around some of these things. That needs more work | :06:50. | :07:00. | |
and consideration. One of the DD speaker, also in Clause issue of | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
draft budget, there are a couple of points I want to make a ball what is | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
in there. First of all, the government is saying that this | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
clauses here because they want to ensure greater transparency and | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
sustainability are on the budget. I am all for transparency around | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
budgets and even Marcel whenever I have the job of Minister of finance | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
and personnel. Indeed the SDLP in various talks have advocated going | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
much further in relation to budget transparency. As well as having | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
designed the whole procedure of their agents parent process of draft | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
budgets to be fully considered for the assembly and open to public | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
consultation and then subject to the revise budget procedure, we have | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
also advocated in various talks but did not get agreement from other | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
parties and this went right back to the Castle, we said that after the | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
revise budget was approved by the assembly, we said each departmental | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
minister should then within a period of a number of weeks make their own | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
statement of their own spending plan and be fully answerable to the | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
assembly for how they would add to the conspiracy. It was not to the | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
taste of many of the parties who were talking about it, he was | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
telling me we don't want that much just guarantee, that would be too | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
much. I think there should be transparency there within the | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
assembly and following through on budgets. In terms of this particular | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
instrument, that is mentioned here, there would be a statement that | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
would be made before the assembly in terms of the amount of UK funding. I | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
would ask the Secretary of State if she would consider accepting an | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
amendment that would make that further and would say that that | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
statement should actually specify exactly how the Northern Ireland | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
allocations was calculated so that people in the assembly and members | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
here would be able to correlate exactly how that spending would | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
amount for Northern Ireland and has been determined here and on the | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
basis possibly on legislation and legislative requirements, Madam | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
Deputy Speaker, it was one of the key arguments that came from the | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
Scottish National Party and their selves in relation to the English | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
was for English laws, there were legislations that can go through | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
here, that's will then inform spending plans. And though spending | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
plans that are informed for England or England and Wales will then in | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
turn be factored in to the formula. It is a just guarantee because the | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
government tried to tell us at the time, no the legislation has that | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
kind of spending consequences, this is the government that usually when | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
they were rejecting amendments, it would be because of their budgetary | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
consequences. They try to pretend with English words for English laws | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
that there were no consequences with the legislation that would be | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
passed. They might be right, we might be writes, the way of proving | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
who is or is not right, the way up establishing the facts is to take | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
these instruments of transparency a bit further and it should not be | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
hard to colour in that statement a bit more, rather than just being the | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
brief outline statement that it is, it should be able to be well | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
coloured in whether it is in respect of the draft budgets or the | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
subsequent revise statement that the revise budget has as well. If people | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
want just guarantee that would be a very good addition to just | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
guarantee. We have to question whether or not some of the intention | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
with the statement is of course to use in effect as a budget cap so the | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
government is saying they wanted to be a budget guarantee and | :11:00. | :11:01. | |
sustainability, but of course we know that whenever the Corporation | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
tax bill is passed the financial Secretary to the Treasury said that | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
the switch on would only be activated whenever the Treasury was | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
that despite around a balanced and sustainable budget and let some of | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
us asked at the bill committee would be Treasury use that to make a | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
judgement on some of the spending plans of the executive because after | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
all the Treasury was using the assembly failure to pass the welfare | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
reform legislation as a case for making a judgement that there was | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
not a balanced and sustainable judgement that this be used for | :11:41. | :11:42. | |
other things in the future for instant information to student | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
finance and in relation to water charges and in relation to | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
prescription charges or anything else and the financial Secretary | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
said well, you judge a budget on the sum of its parts. So he did that, | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
and it could be used precisely to involve themselves in some of those | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
other things. One other point I would make about the draft budgets | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
in Clause nine and is one of the reasons I welcome this is it severs | :12:09. | :12:16. | |
a point Madam Deputy Speaker that arose after a budget in the assembly | :12:17. | :12:24. | |
in 2008, the Minister for finance and personnel brought a budget to | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
the assembly in 2008 we try to amend it and am in the programme for | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
government as well as as voting against aspect of it, he announced | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
then a few months later that because that budget that he bought through | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
in 2008 had also contained figures for 2009, and 2010, they did not | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
need to be draft budgets tabled before the assembly in the | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
subsequent years, the procedures that were laid down which very | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
clearly were predicated on a financial, annual exercise he said | :13:02. | :13:09. | |
that he had legal advice that said that requirements for that exercise | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
before each financial year was discharged by the fact that he had | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
covered figures for all three years in the 2008 budget. We challenge | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
that at the time, we took it to the Speaker of the assembly at the time, | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
unfortunately he said he was up to us to take a legal challenge on it. | :13:28. | :13:34. | |
That advised that Peter Robinson was giving at the time as minister was | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
followed then by his successor as minister of finance and personnel, | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
the writable member for North Belfast thing that the job budget | :13:45. | :13:46. | |
exercise was needed, one of the things that is very clear is that it | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
is an annual exercise, there is no ambiguity or doubt when you see the | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
way this is framed that it is an annual exercise, the there have to | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
be a draft budget tabled and fully debated every year and there have to | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
be this additional statement ahead of that. We are glad that at least | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
it does that, maybe it should restore a bit of transparency, to | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
the assembly which does need to be amplified, the assembly should be | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
doing much more by way of scrutiny from budgets and spending. Members | :14:19. | :14:33. | |
have raised issues that weren't covered in the secretary of State's | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
address in her opening remarks in her respective legacy issues. I | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
regret the fact that we ended up with, rather than in all party, all | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
partied together agreement, we have ended of with welfare reform going | :14:54. | :15:01. | |
forward as agreed by the three amigos of Sheng fang. The Tories and | :15:02. | :15:09. | |
the DEP, and the austerity a landscape was welfare reform on | :15:10. | :15:17. | |
those terms. Now we have this legislation being brought forward, | :15:18. | :15:27. | |
and the legacy legislation. When that comes it is important it is not | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
rushed, and that we give full consideration again to some of the | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
issues. While I recognise the Secretary of State saying that she | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
thinks the measure of agreement that was apparent around the table I | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
store my house, the highest degree of agreement that there has been, I | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
would make the point that there was an offer of a much better | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
perspectives in terms of dealing with the past. There was a another | :15:59. | :16:10. | |
perspective as well. They were watered down in the store my house | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
agreement, and being watered down further. In a number of respects, | :16:15. | :16:24. | |
and I would ask as well as victims groups who have their own concerns, | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
upsets, and apprehensions to consider all of the issues, I would | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
ask all parties to consider all of the issues as well. Not least in | :16:33. | :16:41. | |
respect of the potential to deal with what have now been thematic. | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
What is hugely important is that the historic investigations unit has set | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
up to undertaking the work that was formally done by the police odds | :16:52. | :17:01. | |
with them. -- ombudsman. We should realise it will work on the basis of | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
providing support to families. Many of these cases are linked together. | :17:08. | :17:16. | |
There are wider patterns, and wider issues at stake. Not all in relation | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
to killings. We think many of those need to be given an airing. We think | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
that that would help to answer some of the questions that have been | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
raised by the honourable member. He said he thinks there is an | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
unbalanced approach to the past, that those who want the past | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
investigated are concentrating on what he stated, and not what | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
paramilitary actors did. The whole question of the medics and patterns | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
in those investigations could precisely lead to more balance. That | :17:50. | :17:59. | |
is why we put such emphasis on that. I recall the point in reply to some | :18:00. | :18:15. | |
of the points that deal with the means and the motives were pursuing | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
their aspects of the past that interested in them, and other people | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
were being left aside. He was making the point that he thought the medics | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
was a way of evening that, and making sure that other issues and | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
concerns were looked at. I am grateful to the honourable member. | :18:35. | :18:46. | |
Before he concludes... Just before he concludes his remarks, I wanted | :18:47. | :18:54. | |
to take this opportunity to express, despite the noises, how sorry we are | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
that there has been a family burden and in the honourable member's | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
extended family. We would be grateful if you would offer to his | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
sister our sympathy and support at a time when her partner was tragically | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
killed in a traffic accident last night. We are sorry indeed. | :19:19. | :19:31. | |
Can I thank the Member for her kind condolences, which I will certainly | :19:32. | :19:42. | |
pass on. I accept this burden that she has shared, on behalf of collies | :19:43. | :19:50. | |
as well. Whenever we experience death, and a shock like that, | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
especially when I didn't know what had happened when I spotted the tape | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
across the road and the place, it looked like a security operation | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
that would have been so familiar to so many of us down the years. It was | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
a throwback image, before I knew anything else. I had memories of | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
another occasion, which also brings to mind exactly the position we are | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
all talking about, coming here from different party stances we are | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
talking about victims and their positions, and their concerns. | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
Victims, and survivors and their needs. We do need to show full | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
consideration, because if we are going to convince them that the | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
legislation, when it does come forward in relation to legacy | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
issues, is going to be fit for their needs, then we need to listen and | :20:44. | :20:51. | |
think a little bit more. I would hope that the consensus that the | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
secretary of State is saying she wants to build isn't going to be | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
just trying to square things off between herself and one or two other | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
parties, but that it is done much more widely. Clearly, we will be | :21:03. | :21:10. | |
bringing forward, as my honourable friend has said, we will be bringing | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
forward amendments on some of these issues to try to prove and improve | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
the meaning of this legislation. Obviously we are not opposed to | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
this, because clearly we will need changes to be in place such as the | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
change in relation to the timeline for the appointment of ministers, | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
and the question of allowing a programme for government to actually | :21:33. | :21:40. | |
be aired and shared before ministers are appointed. Clearly, if that will | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
happen in time for the many of the next assembly, this legislation will | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
have to go through. We are certainly, in terms of the timing, | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
we wanted to improve it, and make some of the gaps and wrinkles in it. | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
We think there could have been other things done with this legislation. | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
Why should the appointment of first deputy and the Minister remained the | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
singular appointment of two parties? Why not revert to the original Good | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
Friday agreement of liking them? Sheng fang and the DEP go to lobby | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
on their own. They couldn't originally in 2007, when devolution | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
was restored with his wife the whole system had to be changed. Now they | :22:26. | :22:34. | |
are happy to be in a power packed, there is no reason why they | :22:35. | :22:41. | |
shouldn't. That should be an assembly mandate and have the deputy | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
and first Minister mandated that way. In relation to this bill, we | :22:46. | :22:54. | |
may concentrate on issues in the bill, and also on others that aren't | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
in the bill. Thank you very much. Second reading debates are often | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
described as timely, well informed, and occasionally that is true. | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
Tonight, I think we have heard an excellent second reading debate with | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
first-class contributions from all corners of the chamber. Can I | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
associate myself and my colleague with particular aspirations of | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
sympathy expressed to the honourable member of the death of Mark | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
Calloway. The honourable number has borne this with courage, and has the | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
sympathy of the house. As does the member from foil for his family | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
burden and which I hope we can all there with him. This has been one of | :23:44. | :23:52. | |
Constantine throughout the night's debate. That is, for once on these | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
occasions, I am delighted, I am pleased to say, a theme of optimism. | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
This is a serious and sober debate, but at every stage, there was a | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
chink of light. That chance of hope, that good news for the future, and | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
that commitment to a better shared future. We heard that from every | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
party speaking tonight. That is one of the most important things we have | :24:17. | :24:23. | |
heard tonight. When the Member for Belfast North refers to, rather | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
flatteringly, we are represented more in quality than quantity, may I | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
say there are more people beyond this chamber looking at our | :24:35. | :24:36. | |
deliberations who are watching us, and in many cases they will be | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
looking in on us with admiration and gratitude. We are moving on in | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
northern Ireland to a better, shared future. Tonight's bill and the | :24:48. | :24:49. | |
second reading may not be the most important piece of legislation ever | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
seen on this floor, but it is an essential, crucial building block in | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
this war, in the architecture, the structure of a peaceful Northern | :25:01. | :25:03. | |
Ireland that we all aspire for. I have been greatly at impressed by | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
the determination and quality of the comments tonight. The honourable | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
Lady, above and beyond the call of duty, presented herself despite | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
suffering from something approaching laryngitis. May I suggest there is a | :25:19. | :25:31. | |
marvellous medicine in Ireland and Scotland, that is available for her | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
on request. Whether she was able to avail herself of a small nip, I | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
cannot say, but as a prophylactic against such drug conditions, it is | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
admirable and Wolk recommended. It is also a very powerful curative. | :25:47. | :25:53. | |
Referring again to the honourable gentleman for Belfast North, when he | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
said that this is only part of the information of the Stormont house, | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
and try the course of his speech and others, we were privileged and | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
almost blessed to hear some extraordinarily incisive | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
interventions by the honourable Betty from North Down. Her | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
suggestion of extending the inset empire to Northern Ireland is | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
something that would be a tad controversial. We may need to | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
discuss that at some later point. I also thought the gentleman from | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
Belfast North was right, and I would like to associate myself and my | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
colleague with his comment about Peter Robinson. We don't give people | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
enough credit on the floor of this house for the work we do. Very often | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
people achieve great things, and then they perhaps move off of the | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
stage may be to return, who knows? And move off of the stage and | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
sometimes we neglected to thank and pay credit to them. The honourable | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
gentleman for North Belfast has done the right thing. I think everyone | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
would wish to associate himself with his comments. We also heard from the | :26:56. | :27:03. | |
honourable gentleman of how things have moved on from the days of the | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
bonfires. Extraordinarily, sobering as if it is needed, a comment from | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
the right honourable gentleman. Sometimes, when we debate Northern | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
Ireland business on the floor of the house, we actually forget the | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
full-scale and extent of the seriousness of the subject we are | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
debating. He referred to the deaths that occurred to the troubles over | :27:28. | :27:37. | |
over 3600 deaths. More people have died of the there own hands -- the | :27:38. | :27:45. | |
work we do hear it must always be done in the context of those | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
realities. Of the existence, still, of a legacy that is so horrific that | :27:50. | :27:56. | |
sometimes it is almost impossible to almost absorb its full strength. | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
Those suicide figures, the figures that are very seldom publicised, are | :28:02. | :28:09. | |
utterly bone chilling. Any of us feel that we are somehow fighting | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
fighting in our determination to drive forward the peace process in | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
Northern Ireland, let us never forget it didn't and I'm Good | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
Friday. The problem still exists today. We heard a wonderful comment | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
and speech that from the first time the honourable Lady from a soft | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
down. Having considered at great length her comment, I had decided | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
that yes, I agree with her. We should stay in the European union | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
for many, many reasons. She was so right, yet again, to refer to the | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
troubles and to the victims. It is interesting that we didn't stray far | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
and wide, and occasionally we pushed the envelope of a direct relevance. | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
Certainly, when we moved out, particularly in a wide ranging | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
horizon scanning speech by the honourable gentleman, we trespassed | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
in some of the byways of the debate which I hadn't anticipated we would | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
be discussing. I think in one of the other interventions by the | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
honourable Lady for North Down, when she referred to the New Clause | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
eight, particularly the new proposed section 48, and undertaken by | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
members, I say to the house, and particularly to the Secretary of | :29:28. | :29:29. | |
State, I don't think we have heard the last of it. It is from a | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
business, but legislation on the floor of this house today, and | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
legislation at committee stage on the floor of his house. I expect New | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
Clause eight, especially New Clause 41 B will to back for us to discuss | :29:45. | :29:52. | |
later on. This is one of the few Northern Ireland debates that has | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
not been blessed by a 50 pound division from East Londonderry. I | :29:58. | :30:05. | |
confess to a feeling of frustration and sadness. Particularly, as I have | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
enjoyed the company of the honourable gentleman in a cracking | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
good night in the intercostal night. -- the orange juice flowed like | :30:18. | :30:25. | |
orange juice. LAUGHTER has an absolute brilliant evening, showing | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
that we didn't need artificial stimulation, and there exists in the | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
heart of hearts, a wonderful community that I hadn't been aware | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
of. It was such a pleasure to be able to be speaking at while both of | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
them sat, and had to listen. LAUGHTER in conclusion, Madam Deputy | :30:42. | :30:51. | |
Speaker, I would like to say that this is an excellent second reading. | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
We are now moving into committee stage next week. There will be more | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
discussion, but let us not forget what I said at the beginning. The | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
motive for this whole debate, the one consistent golden thread has run | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
through it, is a golden thread of optimism. I pay credit to every | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
single person who has participated in the debate tonight, and so many | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
outside of this chamber who have contributed toward that. I look | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
forward to the full implementation of the fresh start agreement, and | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
the Stormont House Agreement, as another step on a road to that | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
shared, peaceful future that we all aspire to. Thank you Madam Deputy | :31:32. | :31:41. | |
Speaker. It is always a pleasure following the member, who in every | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
debate is optimistic and positive, and it is especially welcome that in | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
another stage of the Stormont house and fresh start agreement, we find | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
ourselves in a second reading with the full support of the Majesty's | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
opposition. I want to pay tribute to the numbers, and the whole opposite | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
front bench for their continued support in making sure that we move | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
Northern Ireland onward to normalisation, and they sure that | :32:09. | :32:10. | |
bulbs in the road we have experienced are sorted out to that | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
province, in northern Ireland clinical settlement -- political | :32:16. | :32:27. | |
settlement, to beckon. -- set in. I would like to respond to some of the | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
points raised in this debate. I would start back reiterating the | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
importance of the bill in terms of implementation of November's fresh | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
start agreement as a whole, as well as specific provisions that give | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
affect to the independent reporting commission and increase fiscal | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
responsibility in the budget setting process. Paramilitary activity has | :32:49. | :32:56. | |
been a blight on northern Irish, and he will be tackled together. The | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
measures on this bill will create an independent body that will work | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
toward ending her military activity in Northern Ireland once and for | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
all. The budget measures in the bill achieves what if you set out in the | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
first argument. It makes sure the executive cannot consider spending | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
plans that exceed the block grant allocated from the Treasury. Further | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
to the points that were made by members today, I would like to | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
respond to some of them. Can I join with others in sending condolences | :33:29. | :33:35. | |
to his family, and I hope that he knows we are here to support him in | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
his lost, and also to their family. We are incredibly grateful for the | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
forensic support that his committee gives to Northern Ireland politics. | :33:47. | :33:58. | |
Indeed, the government pot -- it helps us build trust in northern | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
Ireland. As a former member of the Scottish Parliament, and the | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
internal routines of devolution, some of the measures the SNP support | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
in this bill are not measures that would have been right for them in | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
Scotland, by now that they do so for the reasons that she eloquently | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
articulated earlier. To try to move Northern Ireland forward and try to | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
achieve a settlement to allow them to move forward and put those | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
troubles behind them. I'd like to pay tribute to the DEP, and the | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
Member for Belfast North, who articulated history between former | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
first minister. -- DEP. Without the former first minister we would not | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
be here discussing this or the previous bill. I am grateful for the | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
support they have given to the government to resolve some of the | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
issues that led to that in last year. I am very grateful to the | :34:53. | :35:02. | |
positive attitude from the DEP, and the support they have put in place. | :35:03. | :35:10. | |
It is that determination to deal with those issues in the Stormont, | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
by the executive, by the first minister, that means I am incredibly | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
optimistic for Northern Ireland in how it is going to progress. I hope | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
that the bonds that effectively appeared in the road when I was | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
appointed are put behind us. We are moving forward, killing with a | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
paramilitary past, hopefully stopping any in the future, but also | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
grasped with both hands the opportunities, and the economic | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
challenges that are presented. To the member of Belfast South, I hear | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
the issues about legacy. We all want to solve those issues, and in the | :35:46. | :35:52. | |
last few weeks and months, myself and my friend the Secretary of | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
State, the Minister for Armed Forces, we met with the Justice | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
minister, the deputy and first minister, I think that everyone is | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
united in trying to get to a position where he can deal with the | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
legacy of the past in order to move forward. The Treasury has agreed to | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
a package of funding, ?150 million to fund dealing with those issues. | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
Of course, we cannot just impose that hundred and ?50 million on an | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
unreformed system. We are all trying to work together to produce a | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
long-term solution, not a short-term solution for some of the issues. I | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
would like to say one thing about national security. It is often in | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
need about, that it is somehow being used as a block, unreasonable block | :36:42. | :36:51. | |
on progress. Try the troubles, informers, neighbours, workmates, | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
ordinary members of the public top security forces against the people | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
who intimidated their own communities. It wasn't just | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
informers, but everybody will stop people who didn't agree with | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
violence. They might have been nationalists. Those people deserve | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
our protection. Not only do they deserve it, but we have a duty to | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
protect those people, because without their information and, | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
without the helpful tip-offs, the confidential hotline being used, | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
without people in the heart of the communities saying that they now | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
stand for balance and we want to and paramilitary bullying, we would not | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
have reached the end of the troubles. I think it should be | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
remembered that when people and around national security as a | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
throwaway line, at the heart of it it is about protecting those people, | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
and giving them the duty of protection that we owe them, because | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
without them I think more blood would have been shed on those dates | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
of Northern Ireland. We shouldn't forget the role that they play. When | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
asked I thank him for giving way. Would he agree that the place | :37:53. | :38:00. | |
ombudsman, an instance, in terms of their investigation, they have | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
always respected that fully. And never preached or compromised | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
anybody's interest in that regard. Surely, others could be trusted to | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
adhere to the same standard? Everyone is interested in the powers | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
that they are granted. The national security does not discover actions a | :38:19. | :38:27. | |
few, but a whole range of people involved in trying to make sure that | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
our society is safe and secure. We should just rubber that national | :38:33. | :38:42. | |
security is not used lightly. It is openly scrutinised. By the courts. | :38:43. | :38:49. | |
The corner, and the judges often make the final decisions on many of | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
these issues, and a CD full fax. It is important that we remember that | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
national security is actually about protecting life and people. The | :38:58. | :39:06. | |
honourable member is right about the financial provisions. We think it is | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
very important that in order to allow a stable and secure budget to | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
go forward, to allow everyone in the assembly to make sure that they have | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
a role in producing a budget, and delivering services for a better | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
governance and better services for the people in Northern Ireland. It | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
is a good example of making government work better, and we are | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
delighted that as the government we can measure that is put in place. To | :39:35. | :39:42. | |
the number of South Antrim. On the definition of paramilitary activity, | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
that is, in our view, to be left to the commission to decide. It would | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
be hard in a piece of primary legislation to describe a | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
paramilitary activity. It is the government pot make you it is not | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
for us to prescribed to the four commissioners and the commissioner | :39:58. | :40:04. | |
how they should look at. I hear the member's comments about the | :40:05. | :40:06. | |
paramilitaries leaving the stage. When I hear that I think I wouldn't | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
like to be in the green room at the time of that. There is no place for | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
paramilitaries in Northern Ireland, and there never has been. We must | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
make sure that there never is in the future. I think, I welcome his | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
support for the bill. I welcome his observations. The Independent | :40:25. | :40:26. | |
monetary commission have the macro will cover paramilitary activity in | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
the south of Ireland. That is important, and I know that people in | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
Ireland will take note of that. The guard have been supported over the | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
years to ensuring that cross-border activity is counted. They know that | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
all of this is effective between North and the South, something that | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
we will focus on. He made a powerful point. It should be absolutely clear | :40:50. | :41:00. | |
that it was many groups that killed innocent people on the streets of | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
Northern Ireland, and indeed on the mainland of the UK. Selective leaks | :41:06. | :41:13. | |
and salacious allegations contained -- cannot change that fact. The | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
narrative that has been growing is very dangerous to the history of | :41:21. | :41:23. | |
Northern Ireland, because the reality is that it was those groups | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
that chose to go out on a night and kill people. It was those groups | :41:30. | :41:32. | |
were planted the bombs, and we won't let the alternative narrative the | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
plaintiff, that somehow somebody else caused it, and therefore they | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
were not guilty of what they did that day. We hear that loud and | :41:41. | :41:42. | |
clear. Given that these organizations need | :41:43. | :41:50. | |
to be blamed for what they did, the team now regret that the British | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
Government maintain the status as a legal organisation and consistently | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
refused to prescribe them? Well, if memory serves me right, the word in | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
1992, I think I was not in this house, I was not privy to the | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
government, in fact in 1992I was walking around in west Belfast. The | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
idea that I can condemn or support the ruling, all I know is that at | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
the time, I was serving in northern Ireland, I was grateful that they | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
were prescribed, any paramilitary organisation should be prescribed | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
and the organisation that uses fear, terror, and bullying should have of | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
course been not only prescribe it also boasted that take part should | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
be convicted. To the member of South Down, we should not forget in this | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
house that the SDLP long-standing opposition to paramilitary | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
intimidation, very often he you bear the brunt of that intimidation and | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
many of the party, all the parties in this house have experienced | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
first-hand the intimidation of paramilitaries. Either within their | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
own community that they represented or indeed the neighbouring | :43:05. | :43:06. | |
communities that sought to keep them out. I pay tribute to that | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
long-standing commitment to peace in the democratic process, don't forget | :43:13. | :43:19. | |
that, I don't take it lightly at the issues of national security. On the | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
Legacy issues as I have said earlier, we are trying our best, all | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
of us, my right honourable friend regularly has meetings with the | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
victims of the communities to make sure that they feel they are doing | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
our best. We are going to get there, we are good to try and resolve it, | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
and that will be hopefully as soon as we can all get agreement. Can I | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
press the Minister once more on this issue, he mentioned the Legacy | :43:44. | :43:46. | |
issues in dealing with the legacy of the past to stop after secretary of | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
state, I want you to be clear, throughout this interesting and the | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
debate, does the Minister recognised, when he and the | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
secretary of State look again at releasing some of the funding for | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
the Treasury and the government have put aside for dealing with legacy | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
issues to fund the PSN I and the corner services to deal with some of | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
these legacy issues which were supposed to be dealt with by other | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
institutions because of the inability to actually come to an | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
agreement, they have been that to deal with it but have not been given | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
the resources to tackle it, will the Minister look again at that? | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
Absolutely, we will support any measures that field with the Legacy, | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
my right honourable friend said that, what we must make sure is that | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
we cannot just release the money, we need all the actors on the stage to | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
produce the solution. We need the victims to pour the solution, we | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
need the PSN I to support the solution, we need the courts to | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
support the solution, we need the executive support the solution, if | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
he were to release money and no one else was supporting the schemes or | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
the Koerner's for example court changes than we would not | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
necessarily solve the issues. We will absolutely look with all | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
seriousness and all support at any measures that come to us for solving | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
the Legacy issues. The good news is, and anyone who has ever been in | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
government will know is that we have caught the agreement of the Treasury | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
for the sum and principle which is obviously have the battle, ?150 | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
million is there, I think that is meaning that the gap between getting | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
the money and delivering it is simply a matter about getting an | :45:28. | :45:29. | |
agreement between all the significant stakeholders in Northern | :45:30. | :45:36. | |
Ireland. I think that is something that we are all determined to do it | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
is one of our priorities, once this bill has passed, we are all trying | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
to get there, and we will work with all parties to try and do it. | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
Including matter that the Speaker... Can I think the Minister for giving | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
way, whenever I was speaking, I referred these pics of monies | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
between the national crime agency and the PSN I, would it be possible, | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, for the Minister to follow that up in | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
writing with an answer to me? , while what I can say, she reminded | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
me of one of the points, ?28 million has been allocated for it typing | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
paramilitary activity, how that is divided is as far as I'm | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
understanding operational decisions, but who needs it and where should it | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
go, but there has been a sum of ?20 million, we think that is a step in | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
the right direction to tackling it, and if there is any more to tell I | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
was certainly right to her, but the including I would like to remind the | :46:44. | :46:45. | |
House that the Speaker, including I would like to remind the House of | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
disability support it plays a significant part in our efforts to | :46:52. | :46:54. | |
support a stable and workable devolution settlement in Northern | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
Ireland. I therefore Madam Deputy Speaker she helped to support the | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
bill. Hear, hear! The question is the don't be read a second time, as | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
many as that opinion say Aye's, of the contrary No's. I think the Aye's | :47:08. | :47:15. | |
have it. The Aye's have it. Programme motion to be moved | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
formerly. I baked them both. The question is on the order papers, as | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
many of that say Aye's, on the contrary No's, the Aye's have it, | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
the Aye's have it. Resolution to be moved formerly? I. The question is | :47:29. | :47:35. | |
as on the order papers, as many say Aye's, the contrary No's, the Aye's | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
have it, the Aye's have it. Notion number four on road traffic. To | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
move? Not move. Notion number five on referendums, minister to move? I | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
beg to move. The question is as on the order papers, as many of that | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
opinion say Aye's, on the contrary No's, I think the Aye's have it, the | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
Aye's have it. Notion number six on estimates, minister to move? Not | :48:02. | :48:08. | |
move. Not move. We now come to motion number seven. Relating to | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
education committee bill. I baked them both. The question is that on | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
the order paper, as many of that opinion say Aye's, on the contrary | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
No's, I think the Aye's have it. We now come to motion number eight | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
relating to doing committee on budgetary in the bail. The question | :48:26. | :48:31. | |
is that on the order paper as many of that opinion say Aye's, on the | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
contrary No's, I think the Aye's have it. I baked a move that this | :48:35. | :48:42. | |
house do now adjourn. The question is that this house do now adjourn, | :48:43. | :48:50. | |
in Blackford? Hear, hear!. Thank you matter that the Speaker, in our out | :48:51. | :48:58. | |
of the European Union, matter G Speaker, it is right that Parliament | :48:59. | :49:01. | |
take is its possibilities as far as security concerned, seriously. As | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
part of this debate, we need to take course possibilities seriously for a | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
the environment, it is worth recapping why we had emergency | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
vessels am a Debian a response to the 1994 report following the oil | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
spill off the coast, allowing the disaster 86,000 tonnes of oil were | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
released into the North Sea. We got lucky to some extent that the oil | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
was largely dispersed. In other areas and in other circumstances, | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
such an oil spill could be devastating. The ships were put in | :49:39. | :49:46. | |
place to protect human and marine life. Men deputy speaker, it was | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
right in 1994, still remains right today. The desire to provide safety | :49:53. | :50:02. | |
cannot come at the expense of a penny-pinching government walking | :50:03. | :50:03. | |
away from Asus possibilities. Hear, hear! It is irresponsibility of this | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
government to maintain that protection, the UK Government kept | :50:10. | :50:15. | |
hearing is all in the Scottish referendum that we were after | :50:16. | :50:22. | |
together. How can there be any entity in that statement that this | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
government does not take our marine safety seriously. What price, our | :50:28. | :50:36. | |
safety cannot be traded away on the desired to steer course unless | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
minister. If the government, might as aunt Sadie, it compromises on its | :50:40. | :50:46. | |
legitimacy to govern. In 2011 among the UK Government announced a | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
movement of the vessels although there was a subsequent agreement to | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
retain one vessel. This is now under threat of being removed next month. | :50:57. | :51:02. | |
Sir Alan Massey, Chief Executive Officer did two weeks ago that | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
following a formal risk assessment that their was unacceptable. This is | :51:07. | :51:17. | |
unacceptable. It was also a accessible to remove the vessel, if | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
there easy a risk in the that I love, there is a risk in the West. | :51:23. | :51:29. | |
Put simply that it is too far away to respond quickly enough to any | :51:30. | :51:36. | |
incidents of the West of Scotland. I thank my Honorable friend for | :51:37. | :51:39. | |
securing this very important debate and he will of course be aware that | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
is one of the five islands, we have repeatedly called on the government | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
to address maritime safety caused by the removal of the vessel in 2010, | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
2000 11. Would he agree that this cannot be done properly by having a | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
single DTD based alone, and it is deeply worrying that the only | :52:03. | :52:08. | |
existing ETD is currently under threat. The possession as we come to | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
find ourselves in... His intervention is very long, if they | :52:16. | :52:17. | |
could keep the intervention grief, I am sure many other members could | :52:18. | :52:25. | |
come in. My last point would be it has been left vulnerable, does he | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
believe your mobile of the EDV. Would be utterly unthinkable. I | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
think him for his intervention, he is correct, we cannot comprehend the | :52:37. | :52:44. | |
risk of the loss of the vessel, it is true as he said there is no way | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
in reasonable time that that vessel based there could get to large parts | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
of my constituency, we have been placed at a level of risk which is | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
unacceptable to all of us. I have asked the Minister, does he agree | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
with the chief executive that removal of the base vessel is | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
unacceptable, and would he give an assurance of the House tonight that | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
the government will find the necessary funds to make sure that | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
that vessel remained in place. This is a very simple question, and it | :53:19. | :53:21. | |
requires a very simple yes or no answer. Madam Deputy Speaker, | :53:22. | :53:28. | |
throughout Europe... I will make it a bit of progress and give way. | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
Throughout Europe, the provision of emergency vessels is commonplace, | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
for example, in France, Germany, Norway and the Netherlands. It is | :53:37. | :53:43. | |
good practice to protect your environment and coastal communities, | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
we should be doing the same. The Netherlands only put in place such a | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
capability in April 2014 to provide protection for shipping and coastal | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
communities. When so many other countries see the sense in this, | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
what is the UK Government not accept it possibilities? That is all we're | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
asking. Hear, hear! There has been some chatter, but maybe the vessel | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
might be saved. This of course would be welcomed as a threat should never | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
have been there in the first place. It does not go far enough as the | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
Honorable member said, we need the reinstatement of the second vessel. | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
I say to the Minister tonight, do the right thing, deliver some good | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
news, and put the two vessels back where they should be in the northern | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
islands and in the western isles of our country. Hear, hear! Show us | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
minister that the government takes our safety seriously, don't leave us | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
exposed to the threat of an environmental disaster. I am | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
grateful to him for giving way, would he agree with me that in terms | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
of safety and all of the other issues you buy highlighted that the | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
UK Government need to take into account the fact that in the coming | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
year is over 200 movements of nuclear material will be taking | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
place and some of them will be transported by sea. Hear, hear! | :55:05. | :55:10. | |
Before the Honorable member continues, Kenner man members that | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
they are speaking to the chair and at the moment people are directly | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
addressing each other and I would be grateful if members could direct | :55:18. | :55:19. | |
their comments to the chair, thank you. Thank you, I do agree with my | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
Honorable friend and the point he makes. I would argue there is a | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
wider point, what we are missing here is if we had responsibility for | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
our marine environment in Scotland, we would make sure that we had chips | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
in place to protect over coastal community, but moreover, this | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
unbelievable threat we face of nuclear waste being moved by sea, | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
down the West Coast of Scotland would certainly not be tolerated by | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
an independent Scottish Government. Hear, hear! Let us think about the | :55:53. | :56:01. | |
risks we face in the West and north coast of Scotland. Extreme weather, | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
treacherous coastlines and changing title patterns throughout the year, | :56:06. | :56:13. | |
most treacherous waters and the threat of nuclear waste has been | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
set, the threat of nuclear waste being transmitted on the coast | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
leaves me cold. The possibility, Madam Deputy Speaker of no emergency | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
towing misses being leaves me horrified. But added that he | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
Speaker, the need for such vessels was cruelly demonstrated when two | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
days after the announcement of the withdrawal of the vessels in 2011, | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
the ship was sent to the aid of a nuclear submarine that had run | :56:42. | :56:49. | |
aground. We don't know if it was carrying nuclear weapons, whether it | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
was or not it's a moot point, but a nuclear sub co-writing the Isle of | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
Skye was quite an incident. To say that such an event could not happen | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
again? We need the security and the emergency towing vessel. I might add | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
that the towing vessel provide some security to us, a uses the premise | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
all presents no security to the people of Scotland. Hear, hear! What | :57:14. | :57:21. | |
would happen if there is another, heaven forbid? We have also learnt | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
that the TVs are not the responsibility, and they are not a | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
budget priority. Even so, the MC admits that there is an crease in | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
risk of the TVs that are not available, you almost could not make | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
this up. There is an acceptance of risk, those of us in these | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
communities, we can take the risk, we are expendable. That is the | :57:47. | :57:49. | |
message from this government. Why should the Minister care, while I is | :57:50. | :57:55. | |
a local MP would care for my communities, I will fight for my | :57:56. | :57:58. | |
communities, and I want the government to take responsibility. | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
What is the point of the MCA if it is not a statutory responsibility, | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
why would the Minister not make this a sedentary responsibility? At me, | :58:09. | :58:16. | |
if I may do with the issue of such vessels in the constituency. This | :58:17. | :58:23. | |
wanton disregard for the Marine safety takes place at the time of | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
the MCA bus was considering an application for ship to ship | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
transfers. Here again, the government seems to be coming up | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
short in discharging its responsibilities to consult | :58:36. | :58:37. | |
effectively and take seriously environmental considerations. It is | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
environmental concerns that demonstrate the need for our Marine | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
safety to be taken seriously and our communities need to have the comfort | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
of knowing that emergency towing vessels aren't a part of the | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
government's response ability. We have the situation that the Scottish | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
Government are responsible for Marine safety yet incredible as it | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
sounds, we are not aware as to whether or not Marine Scotland were | :59:01. | :59:03. | |
consulted as a part of this process. The application for the ship to ship | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
transfer data the 5th of November states the MCA confirmed the main | :59:09. | :59:14. | |
consult these beady local government authority, Scottish Environmental | :59:15. | :59:16. | |
Protection Agency, and Scottish national heritage with the | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
appropriate NGOs. Mr Speaker, Madam Speaker, you will note the | :59:21. | :00:24. | |
The Minister has an issue with cost. I am pleased to see many attending | :00:25. | :00:37. | |
this debate, because in the previous there were a few at a debate like | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
this. The reality is that the UK government have been fast and loose | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
because one and 25, 150, one in a hundred year event happens. They | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
have no insurance policy as they are playing fast and loose with the | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
Scottish coastline that he and I represent and care about. If the UK | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
government respected Collins and Thomas as a union of families, they | :01:02. | :01:08. | |
would allocate responsibilities. I thank him for that fine | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
intervention. I look forward to hearing the Minister answering it. | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
We haven't had one yet. I may say that five of us went to see Mr last | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
November have been waiting quite some time for this government to | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
take its responsibilities seriously. As I was mentioning the Minister has | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
an issue with cost. The government should be looking imaginatively at | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
looking at ETVs multifunctional in accordance with other departments. | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
Increased White House dues, produce, inspection dues, and other | :01:43. | :01:51. | |
activities. Time doesn't allow for revenue stream explanation, but | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
there are many streams for income. A matter to myself and other | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
colleagues bustier, and Nancy stated that there is no formal vessel | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
traffic management system in the northern West -- or West region. | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
This is a voluntary important scheme. I find that quite remarkable | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
in this day and age, that we don't know what ships, and what dangerous | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
cargoes are afloat in our waters. Nonetheless, Beta as it may, the | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
voluntary scheme showed that in the northern island, there were 81 | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
tankers, and 290 general cargo vessels over a 30 day period to the | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
9th of November last year. For the ministries West, the respective | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
figures were 66 tankers and 202 general cargo vessels. We're not | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
talking about the odd cargo. My honourable friend said, whether it | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
is a wooden 25 year, I won 50 euros, or a 100 year risk, these risks you | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
cannot afford to take. I will come back to the scheme, because we need | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
to know how many vessels are in our waters. These numbers suggest that | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
my communities need protection that ETVs would offer. He then later on | :03:08. | :03:18. | |
the 17th of November includes, for example, an incident on the 19th of | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
March 2012 when it is shipped, went aground. As there is no ETV in the | :03:25. | :03:39. | |
Western Islands, the vessel was rescued. On the 7th of April, 2014, | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
ETV went to the aid of another ship off of Cape wrath. More recently, | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
the ETV went to the scene of the granting of another ship. | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
Interestingly, the report I have states that the location was well | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
outside the ETV's operational area. There you have it. Even in the NCAA | :04:04. | :04:14. | |
except themselves that it is not ideally situated in order to give | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
succor to the constituents in our area. Let's dwell on that, and in | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
the NCAA conceding that the distance is too great to offer security. If | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
there is one thing that demonstrates the need to maintain ETVs serving | :04:27. | :04:34. | |
the north end of the West, that is it. Are we to sit back and hope for | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
the best? Or will the government meet its responsibilities and | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
provide securities to the coastal communities? We don't know what | :04:44. | :04:51. | |
votes are going out on the West Coast of Scotland at the moment. | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
Looking at marine trafficker, there is an oil and chemical drinker with | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
a tonnes. There is no insurance policy at the moment, because of the | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
negligence of the UK government. The number makes a salient point about | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
we don't know what's going up there. We do know, but the UK government | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
doesn't know because they are not looking, and they are not worried | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
because it is Scotland. When neck is not Westminster, why should they | :05:24. | :05:34. | |
care? -- it was a general cargo vessel, could we stop and think for | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
one minute? What happened if that was in oil vessel that had run | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
aground? Just think of the environmental damage that could take | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
place. Think of the threat to the tourist industry in the area. These | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
are fragile economies that depend on tourism. We cannot accept those | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
risks. The government has to act to protect the communities up and down | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
to the West Coast and Miller coast of Scotland. On the 7th of May, | :06:06. | :06:13. | |
2015, a ship rolled down and was told to lyric. This is an incident | :06:14. | :06:21. | |
where the ETV was deployed. It was deployed on 13 occasions between | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
November 2011 and November 20 15. That is a significant number of | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
incidents, but we should remember that these vessels are required, as | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
my friend said, as an insurance policy. I'm going to wind up. | :06:36. | :06:46. | |
Incidentally, the ship crashing in Italy was in Orkney before it was | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
deployed. Yet another warning of the need for an ETV. The cost associated | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
with these vessels are in insurance against much more significant costs | :06:57. | :07:05. | |
to society of an environmental disaster, for example an oil spill | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
on the coastline. Providing such vessels is a price that we must all | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
pay, and I ask the Minister to positively this evening. Can I | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
congratulate the honourable gentleman on the securing this very | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
important debate. And having the foresight to do it when the main | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
business in the chamber collapsed early, which will allow a few others | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
of us to contribute. I hope other honourable members will have | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
something to say. The honourable gentleman has already explained, at | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
some length, the importance of this island and coastal community. It was | :07:50. | :07:58. | |
not, I think, a great surprise when we read statement that the provision | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
of this emergency service was no longer a priority for the NCAA and | :08:05. | :08:12. | |
emergency department. It was a short-sighted decision. The extent | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
to which the NCAA have been culpable in relation to the management of | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
this resource, and the point I was going to make to the honourable | :08:20. | :08:27. | |
Desmond toward his and, wasn't that, in fact, it is not just the way that | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
we only have one ETV operates. The way that the NCAA have operated in | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
recent times, they have been more reluctant to test that. The | :08:39. | :08:46. | |
gentleman made reference to a ship from a fish farming company that was | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
owned and operated by constituents of mine. I was in contact with them | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
and have been in correspondence about this particular incident. | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
Essentially, that vote was linked with the life but holding off of the | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
docs, and it was quite some time that they could be persuaded to | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
task. That is illustrative of the attitude that the and she has | :09:12. | :09:20. | |
towards -- NCAA has toured the emergency towing vessels. They | :09:21. | :09:32. | |
outlined their risk assessment in February. That was one of the most | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
concerning episodes, explanations that I have heard from any | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
governmental department or agency in my 14 and a half years as a member | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
of Parliament. First of all, the risk assessment has not been done | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
with accordance with industry standards. It has not been done with | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
people who are independent of the agency. It has been done by one | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
person, not a panel, and an employee of the NCAA. When you heard the | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
risks of assessment, they drill down in some detail into the question of | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
collision. In fact, because of the volume of traffic, collision in the | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
channels and elsewhere has never really been a problem. They have | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
access to the risk of something that has never actually happened in the | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
past, while ignoring the actual risks that we have seen, and | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
encountered in everyday situations. Some of which the honourable | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
gentleman has already touched on. They look in detail at the traffic | :10:47. | :10:55. | |
in these channels, which consists, notably, not exclusively, of ferry | :10:56. | :11:09. | |
traffic. Modern, well vessels. They did not even look at the traffic | :11:10. | :11:19. | |
going into other places. The oil tankers that form the basis for the | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
need for ETVs going into Shetland were not part of their risk | :11:26. | :11:34. | |
assessment. It was a seriously deficient to work. Even in that | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
piece of work, for all of its apparent deficiencies, still | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
concluded that at the end of the day, to remove the ETV would leave | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
the north and north western waters of skull and exposed to unacceptable | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
levels of risks. -- Scotland. They went on to speak about the | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
availability of alternatives. It was well apparent from the discussion | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
that followed on the 10th of February, that in fact, the MCA does | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
not see where these alternatives are going to come from. All of this | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
becoming a mere seven weeks before the contract is going to end on the | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
31st of March. This is all work which, if the NCAA were serious | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
about discharging its responsibilities with safety, should | :12:29. | :12:31. | |
have been done before they were prepared to offer ETVs any | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
confidence of spending review. It wasn't done, and frankly what we are | :12:39. | :12:45. | |
left with is a mess. It is not fault of the Minister. The fault lies with | :12:46. | :12:53. | |
the NCAA, but it is the Minister's responsibility. I do not see how it | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
can possibly be fixed between now and the 31st of March. They will | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
apparently go back to Edinburgh on the 4th of March and see what the | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
NCAA have to say at that point. Given the parameters that are | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
outlined on the 10th of February, I don't see what new can possibly be | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
done. I ask of the Minister tonight, my asked is that if you can offer us | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
nothing else, can he offer us this: a little bit more breathing space, | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
so that the work that should have been done thus far it can be done. | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
It would be criminally irresponsible for the government to allow that | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
contract to lapse on the 31st of March, and for there to be no | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
coverage thereafter. This is a matter, Madam Deputy Speaker, where | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
the concerns have come not just from the industries, but also from the | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
local authorities. I would hope that if the Minister is prepared to offer | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
us a bit more time, he might agree to meet with me, other parliamentary | :14:03. | :14:10. | |
colleagues, and with local authorities who did actually make | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
that request of the NCAA on the 10th of February. Perhaps when he comes | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
this evening, the Minister will tell us whether he is prepared to do | :14:19. | :14:28. | |
that. Even better, would he be able to call that meeting in the north of | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
Scotland or the aisles. This would give us breathing space to look at | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
the way that this contract has been operated in the past. It is | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
expensive, we know, but it is an expensive contract that is worth | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
paying. There is an opportunity at the moment, because of the volume of | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
work that is going to the togs that have the capacity that would be | :14:54. | :15:00. | |
required to do this work, to get a good deal for the government and | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
taxpayer. One of the two but he meeting at the 10th of February was | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
the chair of the tuggs operating Association. He said that he could | :15:13. | :15:22. | |
secure a contract that run for five, ten, 15 years. It would also give | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
us, within island and coastal communities, the knowledge that we | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
have a provision going forward, and we wouldn't just be living from | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
cover into spending review to Comprehensive Spending Review. | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
Another honourable member reminded us of the genesis of the tuggs and | :15:44. | :15:56. | |
other report. In 1992I was still dealing with the long-tail of cases | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
coming out of that when I was first elected year, nine years later, in | :16:02. | :16:14. | |
2001. It is now a -- it is not an exaggeration that lives were changed | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
forever that the ship ran aground. We talk about the impact on the | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
industries, about the economic, environmental impact, they are | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
absolutely true. The human impact of something like that happening is | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
absolutely phenomenal, and they just don't know how you could put a price | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
on that. I have seen what happens if you don't take it seriously, and you | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
allow it to happen again. That is what happened in the northwest | :16:44. | :16:52. | |
corner of Spain. The prestige rank aground there, the second major oil | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
spill in that area in ten years. I remember the scene that as a newly | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
elected MP and being absolutely horrified by what I saw in terms of | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
the posttraumatic effects on these communities which had been blighted, | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
at that time not just once, but twice. The communities we are | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
talking about here, because of their location and their geography, their | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
history and background, are some of the most precious and fragile that | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
we have within our country. That is why it would be, as the honourable | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
member has already said, unacceptable to leave them exposed | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
to for their risk anyway it is currently proposed. Thank you very | :17:37. | :17:46. | |
much indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker. Could I congratulate the honourable | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
member for securing the debate this evening on the subject of ETVs. | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
Could I suggest only the Department for transport could come up with a | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
three letter acronym for a three letter word tugg. I share his | :18:00. | :18:07. | |
passion for protecting the status coast. It was said that I didn't | :18:08. | :18:16. | |
care about Scotland. Gandhi is every much a part of my country as your | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
church or any other part. I care about the environment of Scotland, | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
and the welfare of Seaman on that part of our seas. I and the given | :18:25. | :18:39. | |
concerned, will see his concern manifested not only in the retention | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
of the ETV togs in the northern isles, but the return of those in | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
other places? Let me develop my argument, and I will come to that | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
particular point. Scotland is not only a stunning landscape, but a | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
home of important industries like agriculture, and fishing, which are | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
economically important to Scotland and the whole of the UK. Protecting | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
the environment and safety at sea are our top priorities, and a point | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
was raised during the honourable member's comments about the oil | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
transfer license. Could I point out that Marine Scotland were directly | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
consulted on the 10th of December, and on the 8th of February when the | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
consultation ended they were not responsive. They said they were not | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
intending to respond. I hope that clarifies that particular point. | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
Shipping has a good safety record, but we must guard against | :19:39. | :19:40. | |
complacency, because incidents do happen. The latest tragedy to befall | :19:41. | :19:53. | |
the Scottish coast, the oil was disbursed we were lucky. But I | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
visited the area as a member of the European prominent environmental | :20:00. | :20:10. | |
community, committee. It was heart breaking to see the sea birds that | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
were affected by that particular oil. That is now 23 years ago. It is | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
to the credit of the shipping industry and the skills of its | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
seafarers that we have not had an incident of the same scale and the | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
last 23 years. As we have heard the Gaylord Donelson conducted a | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
extensive review of incidents. His report called save ships, cleaning | :20:35. | :20:43. | |
seas, was published in 1994. It is easy to select quotes from his | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
excellent report. He recommended a system to ensure togs with adequate | :20:47. | :20:58. | |
-- tugg togs with -- they should remain at her for service. That is | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
what happened on the coast with the exception of Scotland. The industry | :21:05. | :21:12. | |
paid directly for college. The Lord Donaldson was equally clear that | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
prevention should be met with potential polluters rather than the | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
Government or the public. At as well and good, but if there are tugg | :21:23. | :21:30. | |
boats available to do that work. But if there are no tugg boats to do | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
that work, a responsible government would make sure that that capacity | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
is there where the market and public sector is failing. That is happening | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
on the West Coast of Scotland, and that is why this debate be been had, | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
because of that there and the lack of the boats. If you would relax a | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
little, I will come to the point I am making in this debate. Perhaps, | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
he might find he might need not be as irate as he is. I share his | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
concerns. Of course, the world has moved on in the 20 or so years he | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
has made his report. Shipping safety has moved on to. We have seen | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
introduction of new maritime safety systems, electronic charts, bridge | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
watching systems, integrated Bridge navigation systems, automatic | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
identification systems. Training for seafarers, improved engine systems, | :22:32. | :22:38. | |
and international maritime codes. All of these add to the tools of | :22:39. | :22:46. | |
safer navigation process. I am grateful for him for giving away. I | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
agree with the points of his points of improvement. Some of the boats | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
that ran aground... That is the point. Even with the improvements, | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
there is still a risk to our communities from something like this | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
happening, from the unexpected happening, from an oil tanker | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
running aground, and it is how we get protection even with those | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
improvements and in the shipping industry. That is absolutely valid, | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
and I am talking about some of the other vessels around the coast which | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
would have been able to remove because of his other factors. There | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
is improved monitoring from the shore above from the Coast Guard and | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
Port Authority. That is why we felt it was right in 2011 to take the | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
decision to withdraw government funding tuggs in certain areas. | :23:39. | :23:46. | |
Indeed, the savings there were substantial. Withdrawing the ETVs | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
elsewhere saved the public purse approximately 32.5 million over the | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
last spending review period. Indeed, the ETV based in Orkney was funded | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
until the 31st of March at the cost of two to ?3 million per year. The | :24:02. | :24:10. | |
availability of commercial tugg operations in those areas persuaded | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
us it was no longer appropriate for the UK taxpayer to fund the | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
provision. That decision has been borne out by the fact that | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
commercial towers have been providing assistance where | :24:23. | :24:25. | |
necessary. We recognise the picture is different around the Scottish | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
coast with a lack of larger togs. One government tugg has been | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
retained their up operating both in the north and West. The position was | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
carefully considered, and based on the density of the shipping based in | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
the North and West Isle region, and the availability of shelter and | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
implement weather, and the ready availability of effective logistics | :24:53. | :25:00. | |
support. Tanker vessels that carry the greatest weight, and predicated | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
availability in and around the islands. That costs two to ?3 | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
million honestly. Since the retention in 2011, the towing vessel | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
Heracles has been used to tell only four times. The toner has been asked | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
to stand by on other occasions purely as a precautionary measure. | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
At no time has any ship needed a commercial tow failed to secure one, | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
nor has there been any occurrence of pollution with the ring environment | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
because of our effective towing service. It is therefore right to | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
consider whether it is appropriate for the UK taxpayer to fund this | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
provision. We have not included the provision and our current spending | :25:45. | :25:45. | |
plans. . Am grateful for the Minister to give | :25:46. | :25:56. | |
way and he is... The argument he is making akin to the argument saying | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
that my house was built in 1906 and it has not had a fire sense | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
therefore I do not need fire insurance for the House. The reality | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
is that the point that is made by the debate that the honourable | :26:09. | :26:17. | |
gentleman is asking is that we have it in place. I think that is what | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
the UK government are found short and very wanting. The honourable | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
gentleman quite correctly raises the issue of risk and the right | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
honourable gentleman talked about the MCE eight looking at all | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
potential risks and risk assessment from the MCA was that all factors, | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
including collision risk and traffic volumes and whether, including very | :26:43. | :26:49. | |
severe weather which can a fact that part of the world. -- affect. The | :26:50. | :27:02. | |
NCAA will be carrying out further refinement of the risk assessment | :27:03. | :27:04. | |
and light of stakeholder discussions. By all means. And | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
listening very carefully and I am grateful for the honourable | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
gentleman to be very considerate with this time. Identifying a risk | :27:13. | :27:27. | |
of the Braer being reviewed, the vessel cannot provide that degree of | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
protection and a timely manner in the Wesco. We need to retain in | :27:31. | :27:37. | |
order to give security to our communities, we need the vessel | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
there but we desperately need the vessel and the Wesco. What is the | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
Minister going to say if we end up with an incident, have been for bed | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
in the future, and we could've had a Braer to give us a degree of | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
protection because that is what we are asking the government tonight. I | :27:57. | :28:04. | |
thank the honourable gentleman. We made a point that the vessel we have | :28:05. | :28:15. | |
where it is... This does not mean we made a final decision over whether | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
it should continue or not, we have not made that final decision and we | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
as the maritime and the Coast Guard agency to speak to all interested | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
parties on two things. Firstly, this shared view of pollution coast of | :28:28. | :28:36. | |
Scotland. I beg to knew that this House do now adjourn. Thank you very | :28:37. | :28:43. | |
much indeed Madam Deputy Speaker. Firstly what is the shared view of | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
pollution off the coast of Scotland and how attention to thousand 11. | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
And secondly what alternative arrangements are available to have a | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
tow capability but back to reduce the board the Mac the burden on the | :28:58. | :29:09. | |
UK tax favour. -- payer. Demonstrating the priority the | :29:10. | :29:12. | |
government gives to this matter. I was delighted to hear that the level | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
of engagement from stakeholders and interested parties was both positive | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
and constructive. And terms of refining the risk assessment, there | :29:21. | :29:23. | |
are of course many factors to take into account, including the density | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
of shipping, variety of cargoes, size of today's ships, the scenarios | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
in which ships may get into difficulty and available tugs | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
salvation solution. The officials gathered a great deal of additional | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
information out of their understanding of the current risk. | :29:44. | :29:45. | |
The overall risk picture is similar to how it looked in 2011, when the | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
decision to retain one government-funded tub happy by all | :29:50. | :30:00. | |
means. Madam Deputy Speaker, so many occasions I've heard this government | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
talking about risk and it strikes me that they are being very badly | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
briefed because they do not seem to understand what risk means. At its | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
very simplest, there are two components that are being | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
misunderstood here. What is the probability of event occur in a -- | :30:16. | :30:24. | |
occurring? It could be in once every 150 years, it could be next week, | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
and the second point is that you have to take account of what is the | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
nature of that negative outcome? What is the chance of the negative | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
outcome? I doubt very many people have argued it and the nature of | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
shipping today, the types of cargo that is being moved, such as waste, | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
the catastrophic nature of that negative outcome is greater today | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
than it would have been 20 or 30 years ago. If you could keep it a | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
bit shorter, we would all be very great. He cut I reassure the | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
honourable member that this government is acutely aware of the | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
risk and potential that could be caused by the and the response | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
correctly put in place. The meeting on the 10th of February also started | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
to explore whether there might be alternative ways... And another | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
meeting with stakeholders was scheduled on the 9th of March. We | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
might find that a longer-term solution does not rest on one | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
particular approach but the combination of option. And I want to | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
give the MCA time and space to work through all reasonable options with | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
stakeholders to find a longer-term solution. That considered thought | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
and development of expert advice cannot be achieved by a current | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
funding ends on the 31st of March. I therefore announced that I have | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
instructed the MCA to make immediate arrangements to extend the provision | :31:54. | :31:54. | |
of a government-funded Braer to of a government-funded Braer to | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
mirror the current arrangement until the 30th of September this year. And | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
I am grateful to my right honourable friend for making this case in such | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
a positive way. The MCA and my department will find to understand | :32:12. | :32:18. | |
across these budgets and this is not an additional expenditure. I am | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
grateful to the Minister and I think he is to be congratulated on this | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
announcement because it is in fact clearly not the end of the story but | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
it is a significant act of good faith and they very much thank him | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
for taking this step this evening. Will he take the message from this | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
house that came from that stakeholder engagement on the 10th | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
of February and to see that this work has really got to be done again | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
and it has to be done properly. The standard and the content of that | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
risk assessment is not good enough, and he is now given us the time, | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
will that time you used properly to do the work properly? Certainly I | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
are ready made the point that the level of risk has not changed | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
substantially since previous assessments have been made but I do | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
think we need to explore other ways in which that risk may be addressed | :33:08. | :33:10. | |
and the point was made about the availability of tugs because of the | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
demise of the North Sea oil industry and other areas where we may be able | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
to come up with something were cost effective. Thank you very much and I | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
am grateful to the Minister for giving way. We welcome the | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
announcement that the government has made this evening, that was the | :33:29. | :33:30. | |
right thing to do. I would say to the Minister to explain to this | :33:31. | :33:37. | |
situation as to what happened. Braer cannot make it in a reasonable | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
amount of time. And light of the decision he has made this evening, | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
and in light of risk assessment that much take place, will you revisit | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
the need and desire for a second vessel to cover the West Coast based | :33:51. | :33:58. | |
on the realistic understanding of risk as been outlined by myself and | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
others because we cannot except that our communities should be left at | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
risk. This is a small price to pay. We need that insurance policies. | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
Please, I am grateful that the vessel has been kept on for the next | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
six months, but let's make sure that we get a solution that protects all | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
of our communities and that means the re-establishment of a two vessel | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
solution to the north and West of Scotland. I certainly hear what he | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
is saying and indeed the provision of the ETV and the times to get to | :34:31. | :34:38. | |
locations is something we need to address. But I urge all those who | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
have an interest to seize the opportunity that this extra time | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
brings with the MCA to make a longer-term strategy to meet this | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
need. I hope Honorable members in this house will give encouragement | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
to that. As response to questions, this government recognises the | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
importance of ensuring shipping activities off the coast of Scotland | :35:02. | :35:02. | |
remain safe. I am grateful to the remain safe. I am grateful to the | :35:03. | :35:09. | |
government's U-turn even though it is for only six months. We | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
concentrated a lot here on the back of pollution. But only a month ago, | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
two months ago, in fact, and Panama a cruise ship ran aground on the | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
there are a lot of lives and peril there are a lot of lives and peril | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
in that situation. Luckily the climate was better but if it happens | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
on the West Coast of Scotland, it has increased traffic, weather the | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
tug boats were the security to make sure that that would not turn into | :35:43. | :35:51. | |
human catastrophe. We are... While the government is making the U-turn, | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
I hope they look further south as well. I have already made it very | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
clear that the two major consideration in terms of the marine | :36:02. | :36:04. | |
environment, particularly from vessels carrying well, but also from | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
the potential loss of life from vessels which cannot get assistance | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
at a timely way. I will make a final decision over whether it is right | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
for the UK tax player to continue in light of the MCA's advice by the end | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
of September. I look forward to colleagues giving evidence and their | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
views in terms of that consideration. I will of course be | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
consulting Scottish ministers on those options before a final | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
decision is made. As I have said previously I am happy to meet with | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
idling councils and I look forward to travelling north now that it is | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
getting more daylight but there to visit some of these locations to | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
hear first-hand from people on the ground of their concern. The | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
question is that this House do now adjourn. As many of that opinion say | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
I've. The eyes have it. Order, order! | :37:03. | :37:11. |