23/02/2016 House of Commons


23/02/2016

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Order, order. Questions to the Secretary of State for Foreign and

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Commonwealth Affairs. We oppose the use of the death penalty in all

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circumstances and advocate global abolition. The Government supports

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programmes around the world to promote abolition and Eamonn Tory on

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executions in those countries where the death penalty is still on the

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statute book. Can I ask if he will resent a new strategy for the

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abolition of the death penalty following on from the 2010, 2015

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strategy and will it include Saudi Arabia? We oppose the death penalty

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in every country including Saudi Arabia and other states where that

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is still part of the criminal law. The abolition of the death penalty

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remains integral to all human rights work that this department does. I

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welcome the fact that the trend is for reducing the number of

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executions and the number of states carrying out executions. When he

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joined me in expressing concern in areas where that is not the case and

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does he agree that if it is wrong to take a life, it is wrong for the

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state to take a life in revenge? That is certainly my view and it is

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the Government's position to oppose capital punishment. We need to

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bearing in mind that while capital punishment exists, it means it is

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potentially a risk for a British citizen anywhere in the world who

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might be found guilty of a criminal offence. Does he share my horror

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that on the top five countries which execute people come remains the

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United States of America, despite a reduction in the number of

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executions last year? Where did the last speak to his American

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counterpart about their record in executing people? As I am sure she

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knows, in the US, this is largely a matter for state legislature 's and

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state governments rather than the ferret -- Federal Government. We to

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take up, when appropriate, the particular cases with the relevant

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authorities. Belarus is the only country still executing its

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citizens. Does my right honourable friend share my concern that in the

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last three months, two Belarus citizens have been sentenced to

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death? If they want to become a full member of the Council of Europe,

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they should abide by international laws and the European ledgers --

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European legislation is? We, in all our dealings with the Government

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there, we make clear the need for them to move to international and

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European standards on capital punishment, but also to take action

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to improve what is frankly still a dismal human rights record in that

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country. Further to the answer from the honourable member from Slough,

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is he aware of the organisation that drugs companies exported to the

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state of Arkansas for use in lethal injections? They say they don't

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export for this purpose but go on to say any sales usually occur through

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the use of distributors. It seems an obvious loophole. Why is nobody

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closing it? I will look into the particular case at -- that he

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describes and try to him in due course. -- and write to him in due

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course. Humanitarian assistance was sent to besieged communities in

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Syria. The first deliveries of aid have now been made and yesterday

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there was an announcement of agreement between Russia and the

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United States on the detailed arrangements for the sentenced --

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for the hostilities which will come into force on midnight on Saturday.

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If that is implemented by all the parties, this could be an important

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step towards a lasting political settlement in Syria. The bombing of

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two hospitals and other health facilities in northern Syria is

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completely unacceptable and a clear breach of international humanitarian

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law. Does the Minister agree that those responsible must be brought to

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justice and that this reinforces the need for United Nations Security

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Council to refer the situation to the International Criminal Court?

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The Honourable Lynne de -- Lady raises an incident that has caused

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widespread outrage. It requires a resolution of the United Nations

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Security Council, one veto holding member of whom is the Russian

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Federation. It is unlike -- it is unlikely that we will succeed going

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down that route. Turkish policy towards Syrian Kurdish forces seems

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inconsistent with our own, inconsistent with the prospect of

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supporting Syrian peace talks and inconsistent with the opportunity to

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form a united front against die -ish. This Syrian Kurds are an

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important part of the equation and have to be brought into any enduring

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solution. Turkey has a problem with links with the PKK and other Syrian

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groups. PKK is a terrorist group designated in Turkey and indeed in

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the UK. There are overlaying conflicts here. It is a major

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complicating factor. What we have seen is very disturbing evidence of

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coordination between Syrian Kurdish forces, the Syrian regime and the

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Russian air force which are making us distinctly uneasy about the

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Kurds's role in this. The bombings are driving the refugee

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crisis and destabilising and weakening Europe. Now is not the

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time to even talk about weakening the EU sanctions against the Putin

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regime. I agree with the honourable gentleman that now is not the time

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to send Russia any signals of compromise or pulling back. The only

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language Putin accepts is that of confrontation. We have to stand up

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and be counted, how ever inconvenient that might be for some

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that have to be counted. Whether we like it or not, Russia is a

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prerequisite to the successful talks if they are going to be successful.

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The American Secretary of State has a close working relationship with

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the Russian Foreign Minister, talking to him nearly every week.

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Whether the Foreign Secretary will speak to the Russian Foreign

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Secretary and what is he doing to improve his personal relationship

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with him? Our relationships are difficult. I spoke to Sergei Lavrov

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on the 11th of February in Munich where he and I had some prolonged

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and robust exchanges around the table during that evening. I do

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speak regularly to the US Secretary of State and am aware of the

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discussions he is having with our mutual Russian counterpart. The

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problem is that Russian policy on Syria is not made in the Russian

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Foreign Ministry comment is made inside a tiny cabal around President

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Putin around the heart of the Kremlin. What dialogue has the

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minister had with French counterparts as a result of the

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Syrian crisis regarding the safety and protection arrangements for

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unaccompanied children refugees that are at grave risk and due to be

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disbursed from the jungle camp? I have had discussions with my former

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French counterpart who retired the week before last and indeed my new

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French counterparts. The issues relating to would-be migrants

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accumulated around Calais after the Home Secretary and she has very

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regular discussions with her counterpart. The Russians are a key

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part to establishing a meaningful political settlement in Syria. Would

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he agree that it doesn't mean we give in to the Russians across the

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rest of Europe and that the Nato commitment in the Baltic states is

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just as important a counterbalance whatever partnerships we use the

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Russians for in Syria? We are dealing with a raised level of

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Russian assertiveness in many areas. In the Baltic, in Ukraine and now in

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the Middle East. We have to be robust in all areas. He is right

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that Russia holds the key to the situation in Syria. I have said in

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this house before that there is one person in the world who has the

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power to bring the misery in Syria to an end by picking up the phone

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and making one phone call and that person is Vladimir Putin. The whole

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house will welcome the ceasefire agreement which is so badly needed.

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However, there have been promises from Russia before. They have been

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claiming to be attacking terrorist groups when they have been attacked

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in moderate opposition forces and civilians. Can the Foreign Secretary

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set out how breaches of the ceasefire agreement will actually be

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assessed? She has put her finger on the

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problem. The ceasefire agreement will allow continued operations

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against Daesh and associated terrorist groups submitted by the UN

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Security Council, and nobody would disagree with that. The problem is,

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the Russians claim that the date, all of their action has been against

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those groups. So on the face of it, the Russians could be entering onto

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this arrangement on the basis of not changing their behaviour. This

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cessation of hostilities will fail before it has got off the ground if

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that is their intention. Can the Foreign Secretary explain what

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consideration has been given to a UN resolution to strengthen the

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ceasefire agreement and support the peace talks? Yes, first of all,

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there is an arrangement agreed between the Russians and Americans

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for investigating alleged breaches of the ceasefire, and there is a

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commitment on both sides to working out a coordination cell between US

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and Russian sides to try to identify legitimate targets that can be

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structuring the ceasefire. In terms of UN dimensions to this, we are

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looking at that, we would welcome a UN resolution behind the ceasefire,

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we already have the resolution 2254 which we did on the 18th of December

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in New York, but that can only happen if the Russians are prepared

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to work with us. Number three. Mr Speaker, Daesh is presently being

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defeated in Iraq, as the competence of Iraqi security forces improves,

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specifically writing to Kurdistan, we are providing the peshmerga with

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air power, logistical support and training. I thank him for that

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answer. Report suggest that 45% of Kurdish forces are composed of

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women. A commander recently said, we do this not to protect ourselves but

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to change the way of thinking of the army, not only to gain power but to

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change society and develop it. What steps is the government taking to

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ensure their participation in regional diplomatic talks, post

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Daesh? Can I just paid should be to be quite she has given and the work

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she has done in pioneering the role that women can play. This is

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something of the UN envoy recognises and is trying to include the bosses

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of women. We have British training taking place in northern Iraq and we

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have training teams that will be training female units in the

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peshmerga itself. What is the minister's current assessment of the

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relations between the government of Turkey and the Kurdistan regional

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government? It is important Russian ship that they are developing, not

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just for economic reasons, but as he has just outlined, the there are

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concerns by Turkey because of the role and involvement and influence

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of the PKK, we will be monitoring that carefully. Since the breakdown

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of the peace process in summer last year, they have been reports of an

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escalation of violence and reports of a breach of human rights in

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south-eastern Turkey, in the Kurdish areas. There have been the deaths of

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hundreds of innocent civilians, curfews, imprisonment of democratic

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re-elected politicians who would be key interlocutors in future

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negotiations. Can he assure me that it will form part of the peace

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process talks in Syria? I'm grateful for her question, it is something I

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was able to raise during my visit to the north of Iraq, at the end of

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last year. We are concerned about the reports of human rights abuses

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and it's something we need to make sure is not overlooked. Question

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number four. Mr Speaker... The pleasure is entirely mutual! Let me

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say to the Minister of State, I much appreciate his courtesy in notifying

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me of his travel plans, I know he has only recently got off a plane so

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we're delighted to have him here, especially in view of the fact of

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which he has previously informed the house, that he is responsible for

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three quarters of the world! You have just stolen my first line

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again. On this important subject, I would repeat, for India and

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Pakistan, they need to find a lasting resolution to the situation

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in Kashmir, taking into account the wishes of the Kashmiri people. It is

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not for the UK to prescribe a solution. And tragically, this house

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has a great deal of respect for UN resolutions, and I'm sure that the

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Minister will be aware that in 1948 the UN Security Council passed

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resolution 47, instructing the government of India and Pakistan to

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prepare for a plebiscite to decide the future of Kashmir. Now almost 70

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years have passed, thousands of Kashmiri men, women and children

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have been slaughtered and atrocities are committed on a daily basis and

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there is still no sign of any action to allow these people to vote on

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this most important issue. Does he agree with me that the people of

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Kashmir should have the right of self-determination and will he give

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an assurance that the British government... I hope she is near the

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end of the sentence? Finish the sentence. That the British

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government will do everything in its power to make this happen. We don't

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intend to support an international conference or put the site on

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Kashmir, our long-standing position is this is a matter for India and

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Pakistan to find a resolution. We are acutely aware of the human

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rights allegations in Kashmir, this was discussed when Prime Minister

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Modi was here in 2015, and we continue to monitor the situation

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closely. Many of my constituents, who are of Kashmiri origin and

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heritage, take the view that this entire problem was left behind by

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the UK will be ruled in that area. Does not the Minister feel that

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there is a real obligation on the UK to actually take a more proactive

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role in this, and do something positive to bring about a resolution

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to this long-running problem? We are talking about two sovereign

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countries, India and Pakistan, it is not for the UK to come between them

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other than to urge them to talk and to ask them, good moves and

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communications between the leaders, they are discussing the subject

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among other things and that we very much welcome. I would say that this

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has been going on for decades and decades and the UK does have some

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expertise in building more peaceful settlements. Isn't there a bit more

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that the UK could do to promote confidence building measures between

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India and Pakistan and are very least raise this as a priority with

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the youth special representative so that our allies know it's more of a

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priority? I just said to the Right Honourable gentleman, we do things

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as best we can without getting directly involved and we welcome the

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fact that on the 25th of November they visited each other, the

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leaders, but I would repeat again, he knows full well the long-standing

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position of the government and when he was in government, it was no

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different, this is a matter for the Indians and Pakistanis to resolve.

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Number five. The UK is committed to strengthening engagement with the

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Commonwealth, the Prime Minister, the member for Whitney, led a strong

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delegation to the Commonwealth summit in November where Lord Maud

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and I promoted trade opportunities within the Commonwealth. The

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reticence in British manufacturing and engineering is not only a

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testament to this government's determination to rebalance the

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economy but has also contributed to 62% employment in my constituency.

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Does he agree with me that our historic links, especially trade

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links with other Commonwealth countries, are vital to the

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continued success of these sectors and the jobs they support? I'm

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pleased to hear the figures coming in from my honourable friend's

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constituency, they can be echoed around the country, I would say we

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are an open, free trading state, we trade around the world and trade

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within the Commonwealth is extremely important and we need to do more to

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promote it to stop it clear that trading between two Commonwealth

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countries is 19, 20% cheaper than trading outside the Commonwealth, it

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is something we need to do. We need to engage trading ministers more

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formally. Last year, Prime Minister Modi and our Prime Minister

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designated next year as the year of culture between India and the United

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Kingdom. Will they join me in welcoming the British Curry

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Festival, taking place in New Delhi in March of this year, when British

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chefs from Leicester, London and Reading, will be going to Delhi to

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make curry there? That he not agree this is a real example of good

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relations between Commonwealth countries? At the risk of seeking to

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curry favour with the right honourable gentleman... We must all

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wish our curry chefs every successfully travelled to India and

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hope that they have a speedy return, because we would all miss our curry

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wedding at home. -- -- were they not at home. It was this point, as well

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as talking about trade between the UK and Commonwealth countries, the

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functioning of the Commonwealth will surely be enhanced if there is more

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trade between Commonwealth countries, and to what extent can

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the UK play a role in trying to enhance that ensure trade,

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particularly in areas where we have substantial representation? It's as

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well to remember that we are an equal partner within the

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Commonwealth, we don't run it, and we wish Baroness Scotland every

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success in so doing, and we want... She has the universal support of

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this house, clearly! We want her to refocus the Commonwealth, we want to

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spend more time... There are similar issues going on elsewhere in the

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world but we want to spend more time boosting trade, and getting rid of

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tariffs and promoting intra- Commonwealth trade, and that we can

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do. I know the business and investment Council is doing a great

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job, business will play a large role in the Commonwealth conference in

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2018. Can I ask is serious question about the Commonwealth and the

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dramatic relations. How may members of the Commonwealth don't have an

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extradition agreement with this country? Increasingly be find people

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commit ghastly crimes, they need to Pakistan and we can't get them back

:23:48.:23:51.

to face justice. What is he doing about that? I say that is a very

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wide-ranging accusation and if he will write to me or come and see me

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on a specific case, I will be happy to look at this, we deal with these

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things on a case-by-case basis. Mr Speaker, with permission I will

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answer this question together with question 14. The conduct regulations

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which said that the detailed framework of how the referendum poll

:24:20.:24:23.

will be administered have now been agreed by both Houses of Parliament.

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The date of the referendum must now be agreed by Parliament in the

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further statutory instrument, laid before both houses in draft

:24:32.:24:39.

yesterday. A record number of people registered to vote in the Scottish

:24:40.:24:44.

independence referendum, 97% of the adult population. What efforts as

:24:45.:24:47.

the UK Government taking the match that success? This, as he will know,

:24:48.:24:55.

is the responsibility of the electoral commission, and they are

:24:56.:25:01.

planning a campaign to raise awareness of the need to register in

:25:02.:25:02.

good time for the referendum. Can the Minister give comfort to

:25:03.:25:14.

those Scottish students who are studying across Europe and can he

:25:15.:25:18.

provide the House with details of what contingency plans are in place

:25:19.:25:24.

should there be a no vote in the EU Referendum Bill? My advice to

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Scottish students studying in universities elsewhere is to ensure

:25:29.:25:34.

that they are registered to vote so that their votes to count along with

:25:35.:25:38.

everybody else in the referendum. You put your finger on one of the

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uncertainties about eight potential access from the EU because it is,

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after all, treaties that give British citizens the right to live,

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study and work in other EU countries. The Minister may recall

:25:54.:25:58.

that in response to my amendments to the Finance Bill, the Government

:25:59.:26:01.

promised to negotiate with the European Commission for zero VAT for

:26:02.:26:12.

sanitary products. As the Prime Minister used his recent

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negotiations to raise this issue and what progress has been made? The

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question of value added tax was already part of the EU system before

:26:23.:26:29.

the United Kingdom ever joined the European communities in the 1970s.

:26:30.:26:37.

There is a review of the current EU directives on value added tax that

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is due to take place this year and that is the appropriate forum in

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which to raise this issue and it is something the Government hopes to

:26:46.:26:50.

secure the reforms about which she is speaking. A successful UK

:26:51.:26:54.

Government has signed up to a range of agreements with regards to

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protecting our environment, and ensuring EU wide energy markets. The

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removal of environmental controls would be a backward step. I am sure

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the Minister for Europe will agree with me that a membership of the EU

:27:12.:27:15.

is vital in promoting the interests of people in Scotland and across the

:27:16.:27:22.

UK. However, the Minister will be aware that the Justice Secretary

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said last week, that our membership of the European Union prevents us to

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change law and stops us from choosing critical decisions which

:27:35.:27:42.

affect all of our lives. Can he confirm... Finish the sentence, very

:27:43.:27:48.

quickly. Can he confirm how his Government's plans have been

:27:49.:27:52.

constrained by European legislation or regulations? Like every member

:27:53.:28:03.

state of the EU, there will be particular issues that come up,

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particular measures where we find some of the ruling irksome. On

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balance, as the Prime Minister set out clearly yesterday, the

:28:16.:28:18.

Government is convinced membership of a reformed European Union will

:28:19.:28:22.

make the British people more prosperous, more secure and more

:28:23.:28:27.

influential in the world than any of the alternatives so far proposed. It

:28:28.:28:31.

is important that voters have the full fax at their disposal when

:28:32.:28:37.

making a choice in June. Can the Minister confirmed to the House that

:28:38.:28:41.

the Government has calculated the cost of implementing the proposals

:28:42.:28:45.

agreed at the EU Council last week, in particular those relating to the

:28:46.:28:49.

administration of the new benefits rules. What will be savings to the

:28:50.:28:58.

Treasury be? Some of this will be a matter for the implementation of

:28:59.:29:00.

regulations that will now follow both at European level and at

:29:01.:29:05.

national level. The answer to the honourable lady's question will

:29:06.:29:10.

depend upon what the level of benefits and tax credits is at the

:29:11.:29:14.

appropriate time in the UK. Those matters will become clear as time

:29:15.:29:20.

goes on. I wish the Minister great success in trying to alter the level

:29:21.:29:24.

of VAT on sanitary towels but could he confirm that if the British

:29:25.:29:31.

people decided to leave the European Union, could he confirm that will be

:29:32.:29:35.

up to the British Government to decide the level of VAT on sanitary

:29:36.:29:40.

towels and other products? That would depend upon the nature of the

:29:41.:29:47.

subsequent relationship because the reason why value-added tax has since

:29:48.:29:52.

before our membership of the EU, been something dealt with at EU

:29:53.:29:59.

level, is because the price at which goods are sold as a direct impact

:30:00.:30:03.

upon the notion of a single market and free trade within Europe will

:30:04.:30:08.

stop the issue that my honourable friend raises would have to be

:30:09.:30:11.

tackled in the course of negotiations about such a future

:30:12.:30:22.

relationship. As the House is aware, all prices are hovering around $30 a

:30:23.:30:28.

barrel, the lowest in 13 years and this is a consequence of lower

:30:29.:30:33.

global demand, continued production and the resilient production in the

:30:34.:30:40.

USA. Countries are taking action and they are diversifying their

:30:41.:30:43.

economies and removing subsidies. In reference to Russia, around half of

:30:44.:30:47.

the Government revenues have come from oil and gas and the GDP has

:30:48.:30:57.

declined by 4% last year. Clearly, foiling -- falling oil prices are

:30:58.:31:02.

having an effect on many countries. I was part of a delegation visiting

:31:03.:31:09.

Saudi Arabia last week. What encouragement is our Government

:31:10.:31:12.

doing to other countries to help and support them diversify and what

:31:13.:31:16.

opportunities does the Minister Seif British companies to assist in that?

:31:17.:31:23.

There are enormous opportunities as my honourable friend outlined is not

:31:24.:31:27.

just in Saudi Arabia but across the golf -- golf. We are working to

:31:28.:31:34.

diversify to help these countries with renewables, green energy and

:31:35.:31:38.

also Saudi Arabia has expressed an interest in opening up tourism.

:31:39.:31:43.

These are important aspects that Britain can play an important role

:31:44.:31:51.

in. I will is the eight and nine together. Britain was a driving

:31:52.:31:56.

force between -- behind the creation of the global coalition. We hosted

:31:57.:32:01.

the first meeting in January 2015 in London. I discussed the campaign

:32:02.:32:05.

against Daesh with other international partners including at

:32:06.:32:09.

a coalition small group meeting in Rome earlier this month. The Army in

:32:10.:32:20.

-- the Kurdish army has been battling since 2014. When he paid

:32:21.:32:25.

tribute to the Peshmerga and Seymore as to what role they may play no

:32:26.:32:34.

liberation. I am happy to pay tribute to the Peshmerga. They have

:32:35.:32:38.

proved themselves to be a resilient fighting force and the most

:32:39.:32:42.

effective force operating against Daesh. The UK's training and

:32:43.:32:47.

providing equipment to the Peshmerga. I had an opportunity to

:32:48.:32:55.

meet with the President of the KR G2 talk about the liberation of Mosul

:32:56.:33:01.

and be the role the Peshmerga might pay -- play. The Kurdish regional

:33:02.:33:06.

Government is more open to the idea that the Peshmerga will play a role

:33:07.:33:12.

in the liberation of Mozilla. They have also agreed to Iraqi security

:33:13.:33:22.

forces being based in the KR G in order to prepare for the assault on

:33:23.:33:29.

Mosil. It is more likely that we will see a successful assault on

:33:30.:33:35.

Mosil sooner rather than later. Seeking a solution in Syria has gone

:33:36.:33:40.

hand-in-hand with our humanitarian aid in the region. When he set out

:33:41.:33:45.

how increased diplomatic cooperation will improve and assist our

:33:46.:33:49.

humanitarian aid in the region, specifically neighbouring countries

:33:50.:33:53.

such as Jordan and Lebanon? We hosted a successful Syria and

:33:54.:34:00.

regional conference on the 4th of February raising $11 billion in a

:34:01.:34:04.

single day. The real significance of that meeting was that we moved on

:34:05.:34:08.

from the idea of simply collecting money and distributing it, to

:34:09.:34:11.

working with host countries in the region, to ensure that refugees are

:34:12.:34:17.

able to access the labour market, can get education for their children

:34:18.:34:21.

and can access health care, making them less likely to feel the need to

:34:22.:34:25.

decamp and become regular migrants heading towards Europe. King

:34:26.:34:34.

Abdullah of Jordan asks that we reach out to areas like Bosnia which

:34:35.:34:44.

may be the next trouble spots. Are we making any progress? We should be

:34:45.:34:50.

very much focused not only on those countries that are already facing

:34:51.:34:53.

this challenge, but the countries that are next in line for the

:34:54.:35:01.

challenge, seeking to enforce them. The Prime Minister's of all Western

:35:02.:35:04.

Balkan countries were in London yesterday and I had been Minister to

:35:05.:35:09.

meet the President of Bosnia-Herzegovina over. We're

:35:10.:35:14.

working closely with them to ensure the resilience and the European

:35:15.:35:22.

trajectory of that region. On the issue of Daesh fighters returning

:35:23.:35:27.

home to countries within Europe, whatever its have been made in terms

:35:28.:35:30.

of diplomatic coordination to ensure there is a more common response

:35:31.:35:35.

among countries in Europe to ensure we keep our citizens here safe and

:35:36.:35:39.

prevent these people coming back to wreak havoc through terrorism on

:35:40.:35:44.

towns and cities in the UK? Different countries in Europe have

:35:45.:35:49.

different domestic legislation around this issue. We have some of

:35:50.:35:54.

the most robust measures available to us to deal with returning

:35:55.:36:00.

fighters. It is precisely because of the importance of exchange of

:36:01.:36:04.

information between European partners, that the Prime Minister

:36:05.:36:08.

was able to confirm that we believe Britain is safer and more resilient

:36:09.:36:15.

against the threat of terrorism by its cooperation with EU. If

:36:16.:36:27.

operations against Daesh are successful... Thank you, I hope the

:36:28.:36:40.

gentleman will not be deflected. What is the threat of them moving to

:36:41.:36:45.

Libya and has the Foreign Secretary made an assessment of that

:36:46.:36:51.

eventuality? There is clearly a risk that as Daesh is defeated in Iraq

:36:52.:36:59.

and Syria, the embryonic presence in Libya, particularly around one area

:37:00.:37:06.

could be a base for operations 100 miles off the coast of Europe. That

:37:07.:37:11.

is why we are working with our partners and allies to encourage the

:37:12.:37:14.

formation of a Libyan Government of National cord that we can work with

:37:15.:37:20.

to start stabilising the country and pushing back on those Daesh

:37:21.:37:28.

footholds in Libya. Could the Secretary of State say how far ahead

:37:29.:37:31.

we are in terms of bringing about that coordination and bringing a

:37:32.:37:36.

stable authority within Libya to take on Daesh? We have seen an

:37:37.:37:40.

increasing Daesh activity and there is still a lot of disconnect between

:37:41.:37:45.

different bodies in Libya. What progress has been made? There is

:37:46.:37:49.

progress being made among European partners and with the US preparing

:37:50.:37:56.

the support we can give to a Government of National cord in Libya

:37:57.:37:59.

when and if it is formed. The problem is that several months after

:38:00.:38:04.

we first expected to happen, it still not been formed. We are

:38:05.:38:07.

working closely with the parties in Libya and with the regional powers

:38:08.:38:11.

who have influence, particularly Egypt, to encourage Prime Minister

:38:12.:38:16.

-- the Prime Minister to get that Government formed an approved so we

:38:17.:38:21.

can engage. There is a strong commitment by the European partners

:38:22.:38:25.

to engage once that Government is created.

:38:26.:38:32.

Much does get said during the election of cycles and we were

:38:33.:38:39.

concerned by some of the statements that have been made during the

:38:40.:38:44.

Israeli election. I was in Israel last week and I can confirm that I

:38:45.:38:50.

had meetings with Prime Minister Netanyahu. He remains committed to

:38:51.:38:57.

the two state solution. It has been over 20 years since Oslo and there

:38:58.:39:01.

are more than 350,000 illegal Israeli settlers in the occupied

:39:02.:39:05.

West Bank. 300,000 Israeli settlers in east Jerusalem and the Government

:39:06.:39:11.

continues to announce the building of more illegal settlements. Does he

:39:12.:39:14.

believe this will aid the priest process and if not, what is he doing

:39:15.:39:26.

about it? -- peace process. This is unhelpful and takes us into the

:39:27.:39:30.

wrong direction. Through my visit, I visited some of the settlements

:39:31.:39:34.

developing there and while announcing when new settlements have

:39:35.:39:38.

slowed down, we are seeing the existing settlements are starting to

:39:39.:39:40.

grow and that happens without people seeing this. We have an area to the

:39:41.:39:46.

north of Jerusalem and if that continues to grow in the method that

:39:47.:39:53.

it does, it will link up towards the north of Jericho. It will

:39:54.:39:56.

essentially say there are no two state solutions. We need Israel to

:39:57.:40:02.

show it is committed to this and stop the settlements. On the issue

:40:03.:40:05.

of words, something that is rubbished is the issue of incitement

:40:06.:40:10.

and the increasing amounts of incitement we're seeing from the

:40:11.:40:15.

Palestinian Authority 's and media. Some has been referenced by those

:40:16.:40:19.

committing knife attacks on innocent civilians. Last week I said -- spent

:40:20.:40:24.

a visit to a school in Brussels where I had appalling stories of

:40:25.:40:27.

anomie -- anti-Semitism in Europe where people deliberately conflate

:40:28.:40:33.

Jews and Israel. The Minister condemned not only the incitement

:40:34.:40:36.

we're seeing outside of the Palestinian Authority, but the

:40:37.:40:38.

attacks which we are seeing in Europe as a result of this?

:40:39.:40:44.

I agree that what we are seeing, Israelis, subject to brutality and

:40:45.:40:54.

murder, is unacceptable and Israel has the obligation to defend its

:40:55.:41:00.

citizens. But we are seeing is the anti-Semitism there, the reaction

:41:01.:41:06.

often through websites, reappearing in Europe or closer to home and we

:41:07.:41:11.

have been working hard with international colleagues, to make

:41:12.:41:14.

sure that we stamp out anti-Semitism, no matter where full.

:41:15.:41:24.

A clear majority of Israelis support the setting up of a Palestinian

:41:25.:41:29.

state but as the Minister agree that actions like how mass, mounting

:41:30.:41:37.

attacks on Israel from Gaza, makes it less attainable? She is right,

:41:38.:41:48.

what we are seeing is some of the developments, it is like deja vu,

:41:49.:41:52.

we're going round again, the rebuilding of the tunnels

:41:53.:41:57.

themselves, the missiles start to fly, where does it take us? This is

:41:58.:42:01.

not a confidence building measure, in the same way that building

:42:02.:42:04.

settlements is not a confidence building measure. We need to make

:42:05.:42:09.

sure we empower the Palestinian Authority so it has the ability to

:42:10.:42:13.

look after and take responsibility for the governments of Gaza, that is

:42:14.:42:24.

the way forward. I'm sure there is a big contrast in the growth of

:42:25.:42:27.

extremism, Israeli authorities deal with Jewish extremism, they

:42:28.:42:37.

investigate, prosecute and condemn. Whereas violent extremists, so far

:42:38.:42:41.

as the Palestinian Authority, the name schools after them, sporting

:42:42.:42:45.

events after them, they glorify them on television. Will they take the

:42:46.:42:53.

opportunity to condemn absolutely the attitude of the Palestinian

:42:54.:42:55.

Authority and urge them to cease this senseless encouragement to

:42:56.:43:02.

violence? He makes a powerful argument, and it's important that we

:43:03.:43:07.

actually see that there are affirmative actions on both sides to

:43:08.:43:09.

reduce tensions, but I raise the specific matter of inflaming, of

:43:10.:43:15.

using words, health Minister in the Palestinian Authority was unhelpful

:43:16.:43:22.

in the comments she made recently in condemning the attacks taking place.

:43:23.:43:26.

This takes us into the wrong direction. We should be doing

:43:27.:43:31.

things, making steps that encourage others to act in consequence of

:43:32.:43:37.

that. I wish we had more time but we haven't. Question number 11. I had

:43:38.:43:44.

productive discussions at the joint ministerial Council with other

:43:45.:43:48.

overseas Territory leaders in December, we agreed progress on in

:43:49.:43:51.

permitting central registers, a system should be kept under

:43:52.:43:57.

continuous and close review, discussions are ongoing but I want

:43:58.:44:02.

to see significant progress ahead of the anti-corruption Summit being

:44:03.:44:05.

hosted by the Prime Minister in May. Will he confirm that the overseas

:44:06.:44:10.

territories and Crown dependencies will be at the summit and will we do

:44:11.:44:15.

our part to make sure that we secure commitment from them to clean up

:44:16.:44:19.

their act and make company on this public? Final in bytes for the

:44:20.:44:25.

summit have not yet gone out of the discussions are ongoing, -- invites.

:44:26.:44:32.

The director is currently visiting the Cayman Islands and British

:44:33.:44:37.

Virgin Islands, thrashing out some of the details. Does the Minister

:44:38.:44:43.

expect those registers will be publicly available all of close to

:44:44.:44:47.

one, to gain access to relevant authorities? I am sorry, I was

:44:48.:44:57.

strong to follow his question as to whether they would be open or

:44:58.:45:01.

closed. They will be open registers available for law enforcement

:45:02.:45:08.

agencies to interrogate, not publicly open registers. That is a

:45:09.:45:11.

long-term aspiration but initially we want to get that access for law

:45:12.:45:16.

enforcement agencies, which will create greater transparency and

:45:17.:45:24.

reduce corruption. In April 2014 the Prime Minister said that, I believe

:45:25.:45:29.

the beneficial ownership and public access of a central register is key

:45:30.:45:32.

to improving the transparency of company ownership and vital to

:45:33.:45:36.

meeting the urgent challenges of tax evasion. Nearly two years have

:45:37.:45:41.

passed and there still appears to be no time table for transparency

:45:42.:45:44.

arrangements in regard to the financial centres, why is this?

:45:45.:45:49.

There has already been much progress. I think she dismisses that

:45:50.:45:55.

progressed to regulate. There are checkpoints, last week we were

:45:56.:46:01.

speaking with overseas territory leaders, there are people there at

:46:02.:46:04.

the moment and we hope to crystallise some of these

:46:05.:46:09.

improvements before them summit in May on corruption, which was brought

:46:10.:46:12.

by the Prime Minister and will be held in London, demonstrating their

:46:13.:46:19.

commitment to this important issue. Can the Minister told the house the

:46:20.:46:25.

exact date by which he expects overseas territory financial centres

:46:26.:46:29.

to ensure proper transparency arrangements, or are we going to

:46:30.:46:32.

continue to hear more excuses for inaction in the years to come? This

:46:33.:46:39.

is an area of direction rather than an ultimate direction, and we will

:46:40.:46:44.

constantly be asking the international community to do more

:46:45.:46:48.

to create greater transparency but it is crucial that the international

:46:49.:46:53.

community, whether the Crown dependencies, overseas territories,

:46:54.:46:55.

are moved together on this, because we want to eliminate the problem of

:46:56.:47:00.

corrupt money rather than shift it from territory to territory. It is

:47:01.:47:07.

the best bit quickfire questions, quickfire answers. Number one. The

:47:08.:47:16.

Foreign Office's mission is to protect our values through our

:47:17.:47:20.

diplomacy and the Prime Minister's deal with the EU but offers the

:47:21.:47:25.

basis for Britain's feature prosperity and future in Europe. The

:47:26.:47:31.

crisis in Syria, the result in migration to Europe, the levels of

:47:32.:47:34.

Russian aggression and the Terror is the threat from Islamist extremism

:47:35.:47:39.

remain the principal threats to the security of the UK and UK citizens

:47:40.:47:44.

around the world. I should recommend this to the register of interests,

:47:45.:47:50.

as we know from Northern Ireland, conciliation is only possible if

:47:51.:47:54.

both sides want it to move forward. Will he recognise efforts made by

:47:55.:48:00.

the Sri Lankan sides in building a strong democracy and unite the

:48:01.:48:03.

island, and will he encourage them to continue? I was in Franco last

:48:04.:48:09.

month and I was able to meet the Prime Minister, Foreign Minister and

:48:10.:48:14.

travel to the north -- I was in Sri Lanka. I have spoken to the High

:48:15.:48:20.

Commissioner in Geneva, who has been there, he was there in February, we

:48:21.:48:24.

are looking forward to his update on Sri Lanka at the UN human rights

:48:25.:48:31.

Council in June. As events in the Ukraine and Middle East have

:48:32.:48:35.

reminded us, nations committed to peace, security and democracy need

:48:36.:48:39.

to stand together in the face of aggression. Our membership of the US

:48:40.:48:42.

is one of the most important ways in which we do this and the Foreign

:48:43.:48:46.

Secretary knows that ending our alliance with the Ewart sent a

:48:47.:48:51.

dangerous signal, including two Daesh and President Putin. Why does

:48:52.:48:56.

he think that's his cabinet colleagues cannot see this and are

:48:57.:48:59.

intent on a course of action that would weaken's voice in the world

:49:00.:49:06.

and undermine our security? Each person in this country will have to

:49:07.:49:08.

make up their own mind about the questions before them in the

:49:09.:49:12.

forthcoming referendum and I have always said this is a balancing

:49:13.:49:16.

equation, there are pluses and minuses in every international

:49:17.:49:21.

relationship but I agree that on the question of Britain's security and

:49:22.:49:24.

influence in the world, there is no doubt we are stronger, safer and

:49:25.:49:27.

more influential as part of the European Union. I'm grateful to the

:49:28.:49:34.

Foreign Secretary for that reply. The report of the UN human rights

:49:35.:49:38.

Council enquiry on Syria, published this month, found that, "Flagrant

:49:39.:49:44.

politicians of human rights and international humanitarian law

:49:45.:49:47.

continued unabated. " The ceasefire is needed but it will only relieve

:49:48.:49:55.

suffering if it is adhered to. What a CSS are the prospects for ensuring

:49:56.:49:59.

that Russia respects the ceasefire by ending its attacks on the Syrian

:50:00.:50:03.

people and if it does not, what further pressure can be put on

:50:04.:50:10.

President Putin to do so? The issue is going to be this, the Russians

:50:11.:50:14.

will say that they are complying with the ceasefire, and they will

:50:15.:50:19.

say that continued attacks, air strikes, are justified by the terms

:50:20.:50:24.

of the ceasefire and that they will be a Mrs D to pour over individual

:50:25.:50:30.

attacks by the US and Russia in the coordination sought to identify what

:50:31.:50:37.

happened. The big picture is this. Unless the level of Russian air

:50:38.:50:41.

strikes tragically decreases, this ceasefire will not hold because the

:50:42.:50:44.

moderate armed opposition cannot lay down their weapons and will not,

:50:45.:50:50.

while they are being annihilated from the air by the Russian

:50:51.:50:57.

aircraft. The Tanzanian electoral commission announced the general

:50:58.:51:00.

election results in Zanzibar at the end of last year and there has been

:51:01.:51:03.

increased electoral violence in Zanzibar as we head to the poll on

:51:04.:51:09.

March 20. What representations on making the 10th union government to

:51:10.:51:13.

make sure we do not return to the violence of the thousand and 2001?

:51:14.:51:21.

-- the Tanzanian government. We are concerned by the decision to annul

:51:22.:51:24.

the elections for the Zanzibar Presidency and the house of

:51:25.:51:29.

representatives on the 28th of October. Our position will set out

:51:30.:51:33.

in the statement by the British High Commissioner on the 29th of October

:51:34.:51:37.

and we have raised these concerns at the highest level, including the

:51:38.:51:39.

Foreign Secretary in his telephone call to the then Prime Minister, my

:51:40.:51:46.

telephone call to be Foreign Minister in December and my right

:51:47.:51:50.

honourable friend in his meeting with the same individual in January.

:51:51.:51:55.

I hope to visit Tanzania in the coming months and raised these pods

:51:56.:52:00.

personally. Given his response to earlier questions rating the benefit

:52:01.:52:06.

to the UK of remaining in the Yukon is it not a real concern that many

:52:07.:52:09.

of his colleagues in the government would put our security at risk by

:52:10.:52:19.

Brexit? This is a referendum in which members of Parliament will

:52:20.:52:22.

each have one vote, along with every member of the UK electorate. In my

:52:23.:52:27.

experience, there are deeply held views both for and against petition

:52:28.:52:32.

on the ship in both my party and the Honourable Lady's party. My view is

:52:33.:52:40.

clear that this country is going to be more prosperous, more secure,

:52:41.:52:43.

more influential in the world through continued EU membership.

:52:44.:52:51.

Given the ongoing Russian incursion into Georgian sovereign territory,

:52:52.:52:57.

but he absolutely condemn the situation in the southern Caucasus,

:52:58.:53:03.

and does he think the situation in South city must now be regarded as

:53:04.:53:10.

the new norm? We should be alert to Russia's aggressive actions in

:53:11.:53:15.

former Soviet Union countries, wherever they are, not just in

:53:16.:53:19.

Ukraine and arguably we were too slow to recognise what was happening

:53:20.:53:24.

in Georgia was the beginning of a new mention the Russian foreign

:53:25.:53:28.

policy, we should have resisted it robustly and we should push back

:53:29.:53:34.

wherever we can. Can he confirm whether or not his discussions with

:53:35.:53:40.

the US about Libya have included the possibility of UK military action

:53:41.:53:43.

and can confirm there will be none without approval from this house?

:53:44.:53:49.

Have a long established convention which he knows that before

:53:50.:53:54.

committing UK come back forces to combat, in all situations where it

:53:55.:54:00.

is possible, other than the direct emergency, or where considerations

:54:01.:54:04.

of secrecy make it impossible, the Prime Minister is committed to bring

:54:05.:54:07.

the issue to the house and allowing the house and opportunity to

:54:08.:54:14.

discuss. What have they made of the securities situation in Burundi and

:54:15.:54:19.

what steps have been taken to bolster Her Majesty's government's

:54:20.:54:24.

presents there? In response to the crisis, we have stepped up military

:54:25.:54:29.

and support to people fleeing Burundi, abiding money, the

:54:30.:54:35.

parliamentary under Secretary of State for International Development

:54:36.:54:40.

has decided to recruit a full-time coordinator, based in Bujumbura,

:54:41.:54:45.

this will be good news, they have been pressing the government to do

:54:46.:54:50.

this and we will commit on both sides of the house. On the 4th of

:54:51.:54:54.

January the Secretary of State told the house that China's claim to be

:54:55.:54:59.

treated as a market economy should be judged through the prism of

:55:00.:55:04.

steel. Given that 70% of the Chinese steel industry is owned by the

:55:05.:55:08.

Chinese government, can the Secretary of State confirm that

:55:09.:55:10.

China should empathic they not be granted market economy status? What

:55:11.:55:16.

I said in January, he will find if he checks the record, is I had come

:55:17.:55:20.

back from China, where I had conveyed the message to the Chinese

:55:21.:55:26.

that there claim to market economy status and the consideration of the

:55:27.:55:29.

claim would be judged through the prism of their actions in the nation

:55:30.:55:34.

to steal, they gave me assurances then and in October that they are

:55:35.:55:37.

seeking to address overcapacity in the Chinese market will stop we have

:55:38.:55:42.

just had discussion about this this morning and I've learnt that there

:55:43.:55:45.

protests going on in China about loss of steel jobs just as there are

:55:46.:55:49.

in the UK and other places throughout Europe. The reality is we

:55:50.:55:54.

have a massive surplus of steel capacity throughout the world and we

:55:55.:55:56.

have to address it. Following the action against Daesh,

:55:57.:56:07.

what are the plans to make a permanent memorial? There is a

:56:08.:56:18.

migration and a concern that Daesh is moving out under pressure in Iraq

:56:19.:56:23.

and Syria to other parts of the world, including Libya. He is right

:56:24.:56:26.

to make the connection between what happened in Libya, the terrorist

:56:27.:56:32.

attack that took place killing many Britons. We all hold a memorial

:56:33.:56:38.

service on the 12th of April to mark this event. A recent UN report

:56:39.:56:47.

suggested Saudi Arabia's military operation Yemen is targeting

:56:48.:56:51.

civilians. Is the minister confident that the UK Government is fulfilling

:56:52.:56:56.

its obligations under the arms trade treaty in relation to Saudi Arabia

:56:57.:57:04.

in this case? We have discussed the expert's panel for the UN on this

:57:05.:57:09.

report. We are looking at the report in detail. It was done by satellite

:57:10.:57:14.

evidence. The experts didn't visit the country itself and we have to

:57:15.:57:17.

bear that in mind. We have passed the information on and are

:57:18.:57:23.

discussing it with Saudi Arabia. I had a letter from the ambassador

:57:24.:57:27.

this week confirming that every effort is made to follow human

:57:28.:57:30.

rights law in the support of the President and UN resolution 2216.

:57:31.:57:44.

Immigration controls in Calais are governed by the Treaty of Le

:57:45.:57:51.

Touquet. He will also know that the treaty can only be broken if the

:57:52.:57:54.

British or the French choose to do so and it has nothing to do with

:57:55.:57:57.

whether we are members of the European Union or not. We ask, which

:57:58.:58:05.

ever person said it, to stop talking this nonsense, that if we leave the

:58:06.:58:09.

EU, we are suddenly going to find a massive refugee camp in the heart of

:58:10.:58:16.

Kent? The Treaty of Le Touquet is certainly vital to this country's

:58:17.:58:23.

border security of the 100,000 people who have been stopped from

:58:24.:58:26.

entering the UK in the past five years, roughly a quarter were

:58:27.:58:32.

stopped at Calais. We cooperate closely with the French Government

:58:33.:58:39.

but I fear my honourable friend underestimates the extent of

:58:40.:58:41.

domestic French opposition and protest against the controls, that

:58:42.:58:47.

if we left the EU, the stock of goodwill towards the Treaty of Le

:58:48.:58:53.

Touquet would be severely depleted. On the Foreign Office website, there

:58:54.:58:58.

is advice to companies thinking of doing business with illegal Israeli

:58:59.:59:04.

settlements. It says financial transactions, investments,

:59:05.:59:06.

procurements as well as other economic activities in Israeli

:59:07.:59:10.

settlements and tell legal and economic risks. We do not encourage

:59:11.:59:16.

or office opposed to such activity. Does the Government give the same

:59:17.:59:20.

advice to public bodies including loud -- local councils with regard

:59:21.:59:24.

to their procurement assistance? We are clear with local authorities

:59:25.:59:31.

that they should not be bound by -- that they are bound by procurement

:59:32.:59:36.

rules. We do not support boycott movements and the Minister for the

:59:37.:59:39.

Cabinet Office was in Israel last week and made that abundantly clear

:59:40.:59:44.

them. With the US wishing to continue for a further 20 years, is

:59:45.:59:51.

military presence on Diego Garcia, what discussions are the Foreign

:59:52.:59:54.

Office planning to have with Washington about facilitating

:59:55.:00:05.

bringing them back? We made it clear we wanted the US presence to

:00:06.:00:08.

continue but the Government has not held discussions with the US about

:00:09.:00:13.

continuing that arrangement. I very much welcome his discussions if you

:00:14.:00:18.

weeks ago at the Foreign Office as part of the all-party group visit to

:00:19.:00:22.

the Foreign Office. I will continue to liaise with him when the

:00:23.:00:27.

Government does come to a conclusion following the report and following

:00:28.:00:35.

the consultation. Following on from yesterday's dropping the value of

:00:36.:00:38.

sterling, implication does the Foreign and Commonwealth Office

:00:39.:00:42.

office anticipate for Britain and Northern Ireland as a result of the

:00:43.:00:49.

uncertainty around the referendum? Uncertainty always has a cost to

:00:50.:00:54.

business. Business hates uncertainty and the markets will reflect that

:00:55.:00:59.

uncertainty. That is why it is right to hold the referendum at the

:01:00.:01:04.

earliest possible date, 23rd of June, so people can get on with

:01:05.:01:10.

their business. When I canvassed the streets of Newark for local

:01:11.:01:12.

elections, people asked me what the views of my local councillors are

:01:13.:01:19.

refuse collection or potholes. I rarely hear them ask their views on

:01:20.:01:24.

foreign policy. What my right honourable friend agree that foreign

:01:25.:01:27.

policy is set by the Foreign Secretary and by the Government and

:01:28.:01:31.

debated in this house, not by our town halls and we should all

:01:32.:01:35.

therefore support the Government's action against boycotts and

:01:36.:01:41.

sanctions? One of my colleagues has reminded me he is not the only one

:01:42.:01:45.

who pounded the patents of Newark. Everybody on these benches did so.

:01:46.:01:52.

Foreign policy is a matter for the Government of the United Kingdom and

:01:53.:01:57.

is the business of this Parliament and it is important we have a single

:01:58.:02:00.

foreign policy which is clearly projected so Britain's position in

:02:01.:02:03.

the world is understood and strengthened. Demand always

:02:04.:02:09.

massively exceeds supply at Question Time. We haven't time but I am

:02:10.:02:18.

allowing time for one last question. , Press the Foreign Secretary

:02:19.:02:24.

further on and they gave to my honourable friend from Sheffield

:02:25.:02:28.

South East? Is there anything in the rules which feted as a public

:02:29.:02:34.

institutions ability to act on the advice that his website puts out my

:02:35.:02:42.

honourable friend quoted? Public bodies in this country are bound by

:02:43.:02:46.

the EU procurement directive in their purchasing activity and must

:02:47.:02:52.

follow those rules. I am sorry to disappoint colleagues. There is huge

:02:53.:02:55.

interest in what the Foreign Office does and says. We'll have to leave

:02:56.:03:07.

it there for today. Urgent question. To ask the Secretary of State for

:03:08.:03:11.

Health to make a statement on the Government's responds to the final

:03:12.:03:14.

report of the independent mental health task force.

:03:15.:03:26.

Achieving parity of esteem for mental and physical health remains a

:03:27.:03:34.

priority for this Government and I appreciate the honourable lady in

:03:35.:03:38.

raising the question this afternoon. We welcome the independent mental

:03:39.:03:41.

health task force launched by the NHS England last year with every

:03:42.:03:45.

minute to explore the variation in the availability of mental health

:03:46.:03:50.

services across England. Look at the outcomes for people using services

:03:51.:03:54.

and identify key priorities for improvement. The task force, chaired

:03:55.:04:00.

by Paul Farmer, I want to thank him and his vice chair and all their

:04:01.:04:05.

team for the remarkable work they did. Also considered ways of

:04:06.:04:09.

promoting positive wealth fund -- positive health and well-being, and

:04:10.:04:14.

whether we are spending money and time on the right things. The

:04:15.:04:19.

publication of the task force's report marked the first time a

:04:20.:04:23.

national strategy had been designed in partnership with all the

:04:24.:04:27.

health-related bodies in order to live a change across the system. It

:04:28.:04:35.

demonstrated a way in which society and the NHS and this house now holds

:04:36.:04:39.

mental health and how it is to be seen and how it is to be approached.

:04:40.:04:43.

This Government has made great strides in the way we think about

:04:44.:04:46.

treatment will help in this country. We have given the NHS more money

:04:47.:04:50.

than ever before and are introducing access and waiting time targets for

:04:51.:04:54.

the first time. We have made it clear NHS services must follow our

:04:55.:04:58.

lead by increasing the amount they spend on mental health and make sure

:04:59.:05:06.

bets are always. Despite these improvements, the task force pulled

:05:07.:05:10.

no punches and gave a frank assessment about the state of

:05:11.:05:13.

current mental health care across the NHS. Highlighting the one in

:05:14.:05:17.

four people were experiencing mental health problem in their lifetime and

:05:18.:05:22.

the cost of mental ill health to the economy, NHS and society is ?105

:05:23.:05:26.

billion a year. We can agree that the human and financial cost of

:05:27.:05:31.

inadequate care is an acceptable. Therefore, we welcome the

:05:32.:05:34.

publication of the task force report and the Department of Health will

:05:35.:05:37.

work with NHS England and other partners to establish a plan that

:05:38.:05:42.

progresses the recommendation for improving mental health. To make

:05:43.:05:45.

these recommendations are reality, we will spend an extra ?1 billion on

:05:46.:05:52.

mental health by 20 20/20 one, improve access to services that

:05:53.:05:55.

people receive the right care in the right place when they need it the

:05:56.:05:58.

most. This will mean increasing bin amount of people from 468,002 agent

:05:59.:06:07.

of thousands. Doubling the amount of pregnant women or new mothers

:06:08.:06:11.

receiving mental health support from 12,000 to 42,000 year. Training 1700

:06:12.:06:16.

U therapists and helping 29,000 more people to find or stay and work

:06:17.:06:20.

through individual placements are bought and talking therapies. I can

:06:21.:06:25.

assure all members of the House that they will have ample opportunity to

:06:26.:06:28.

ask questions and debate issues as we work together to progress the

:06:29.:06:35.

task force's recommendation. The final report of the mental health

:06:36.:06:39.

task force commissioned by NHS England gives a frank assessment of

:06:40.:06:44.

the state of mental health care today and describes a system which

:06:45.:06:48.

is ruining some people's lives. It makes a number of recommendations

:06:49.:06:52.

which, if implemented in full, could make a difference to services which

:06:53.:06:57.

have had to contend with funding cuts and staffing shortages at a

:06:58.:07:00.

time of rising demand and stop too many from people without the right

:07:01.:07:05.

care and support. It is extremely disappointing that the opposition

:07:06.:07:09.

has had to compel the Minister to come to the Chamber today to insure

:07:10.:07:13.

Parliament can give the report and the Government's responds to it the

:07:14.:07:16.

attention and scrutiny it deserves. This is all the more regrettable

:07:17.:07:21.

because the Prime Minister himself chose to announce their response to

:07:22.:07:26.

the media during recess last week. A courtesy which had it not been for

:07:27.:07:29.

this urgent question today, would still not have been afforded to this

:07:30.:07:35.

house. The apparent announcements from the Government include an

:07:36.:07:39.

additional ?1 billion worth of investment by 2020, get a number of

:07:40.:07:43.

vital questions remain unanswered. Will the Minister explain why the

:07:44.:07:47.

report was delayed and published in recess? Did ministers have a say

:07:48.:07:51.

over the timing and if so does the Minister access that this level of

:07:52.:07:55.

interference by ministers raises questions over the independence of

:07:56.:07:59.

this report? Can the Minister confirm that no additional money

:08:00.:08:04.

will be allocated from the Treasury to fund their announcements and that

:08:05.:08:08.

they will be funded from the pre-existing ?8 billion that has

:08:09.:08:12.

been set aside for the NHS by 2020? Given that mental health receives

:08:13.:08:17.

just under 10% of the total NHS budget, surely mental health

:08:18.:08:20.

services would have been expecting to receive much of this additional

:08:21.:08:25.

money as part of the NHS settlement anyway. Can the Minister explain how

:08:26.:08:30.

this money can be expected to deliver the transformation in our

:08:31.:08:34.

mental health services, that the task force says is urgently

:08:35.:08:38.

required? Can the Minister confirm that he is accepting all of the

:08:39.:08:42.

recommendations relating to the NHS? Does he intend to respond to the

:08:43.:08:47.

other recommendations and when can we expect that response? We don't

:08:48.:08:52.

solve the challenges of our nation's mental health from the Department of

:08:53.:08:54.

Health. For the many thousands of people who have been let down by

:08:55.:08:57.

this Government who are desperate to see a change in how we approach

:08:58.:09:01.

mental health and who are owed a full explanation from the Government

:09:02.:09:05.

on the response to this damning report, I look forward to the

:09:06.:09:15.

Minister's reply. I thank the honourable lady for her questions

:09:16.:09:21.

and the opportunity it presents to say more about what we are doing in

:09:22.:09:25.

relation to mental health and how far it has come since 2010. The

:09:26.:09:30.

honourable lady could have said 1400 more people a day or having access

:09:31.:09:36.

to mental health treatment than in 2010. A comparison in what was done

:09:37.:09:39.

then and what is being done now. The central point is there is more to be

:09:40.:09:43.

done which is a common view that we share and that is right to bring it

:09:44.:09:48.

out and what this report did. The timing was not up to Government.

:09:49.:09:52.

This is an independent report commissioned by the NHS of an

:09:53.:09:56.

independent task force and the timing and the content was decided

:09:57.:10:02.

by them. I have the occasional meetings with Paul Farmer about it

:10:03.:10:05.

and made sure I have spoken to him and said it is your report. Forget

:10:06.:10:11.

the papers and who wants what in the report. This is yours and it has to

:10:12.:10:16.

be yours and it is clear that it was. The decision to publish it was

:10:17.:10:19.

theirs and the Prime Minister was able to respond. It emphasises the

:10:20.:10:25.

importance that is given to this issue, compared with times past.

:10:26.:10:31.

In relation to the finance, the important thing to note is the Prime

:10:32.:10:38.

Minister announced in January how the ?600 million in the spending

:10:39.:10:43.

review, which is included in the NHS Bottom Line until 2021, was going to

:10:44.:10:48.

be spent. That included mental health, crisis care and psychiatric

:10:49.:10:56.

liaison in A and the crisis care community work. What was said by the

:10:57.:11:01.

Prime Minister in relation to the task force report represents a new

:11:02.:11:06.

money available for the NHS and mental health by 2021. Which will be

:11:07.:11:12.

a billion pounds extra by 2021 than it is spending at the moment. With

:11:13.:11:17.

the additional number of people to be treated that I outlined. In terms

:11:18.:11:23.

of how that will be handled by ourselves, I spoke to the task force

:11:24.:11:28.

after the issuing of the report. What I don't particularly want to do

:11:29.:11:35.

is produce a response to the task force report. What I'd prefer to do

:11:36.:11:40.

is have a series of rolling responses, which, when we have

:11:41.:11:44.

responded to a recommendation and when we are moving on and delivering

:11:45.:11:48.

on the recommendation, I will say so. It will be related back to what

:11:49.:11:54.

the task force has done. Some of those may involve announcements in

:11:55.:12:00.

parliament or written statements. But I don't want a Big Bang in terms

:12:01.:12:06.

of a response, because the Prime Minister has already said we will

:12:07.:12:14.

accept these recommendations. Instead of report being produced and

:12:15.:12:19.

sitting on the shelf, by constant reference to it by doing something,

:12:20.:12:24.

saying this is a response to what the task force said we should be

:12:25.:12:30.

doing towards 2021, it can get the stamp of support and recognition,

:12:31.:12:34.

which I think is important. In relation to what the honourable lady

:12:35.:12:39.

claims is the thousands let down. I would gently remind the honourable

:12:40.:12:43.

lady, it was this government who was the first government to set waiting

:12:44.:12:46.

times for physical and mental health. A chance missed by her

:12:47.:12:51.

government when they were in government. It is this government

:12:52.:12:56.

that has made the commitment of ten billion pounds extra to the NHS,

:12:57.:13:01.

which was never a commitment made a her or her party. It is easy to talk

:13:02.:13:06.

about new things in mental health when you don't have a budget or an

:13:07.:13:10.

economic team producing anything of any credibility, but this government

:13:11.:13:13.

has the responsibilities and is doing the work. But we are agreed

:13:14.:13:19.

the state of mental health services cries out for more to be done. That

:13:20.:13:24.

is what we are doing. The direction of travel and physical delivery is

:13:25.:13:28.

happening on a day by day basis. We will do more and we will continue to

:13:29.:13:38.

do more and I welcome her team's pressure on me and my right

:13:39.:13:41.

honourable friend to continue to do more. We will meet that challenge

:13:42.:13:49.

but we meeting it like no government has done before. Can I congratulate

:13:50.:13:57.

my honourable friend on his personal commitment towards this issue. Will

:13:58.:14:01.

he accept those who suffer from mental health or often poor

:14:02.:14:06.

advocates for their own cause and it is easy for money to be diverted

:14:07.:14:11.

into other areas of health care spending, when others are able to

:14:12.:14:16.

shout louder for that money. Will he and his front bench team consider

:14:17.:14:19.

whether it is possible to ring fence inside the NHS budget, this money

:14:20.:14:25.

from mental health care, so it doesn't become the Cinderella

:14:26.:14:27.

subject in the future that it has been in the past? I thank my

:14:28.:14:36.

honourable friend but his interest and he liked me, has come across

:14:37.:14:43.

this conundrum. We talked from the dispatch box about more money going

:14:44.:14:47.

into mental health and in areas they say, it is not happening here. It

:14:48.:14:52.

has been a genuine reality we need to do something about. What we need

:14:53.:14:59.

to do, by being more directive to clinical groups and examining their

:15:00.:15:02.

finances and the guidance from the NHS that says they expect the

:15:03.:15:09.

proportional increase in finance in the NHS going appropriately to

:15:10.:15:11.

mental health services and the specific commitments we have even to

:15:12.:15:16.

the series of services announced by the Prime Minister, we hope to make

:15:17.:15:20.

sure that diversion of funds in the future will not sorry, the diversion

:15:21.:15:26.

of funds in the past will not happen in the future. I think all of us in

:15:27.:15:38.

the House welcomed the strides that have been made in changing the

:15:39.:15:42.

stigma around mental health. The people who have been brave enough to

:15:43.:15:48.

speak out. The campaign we had in Scotland, which was See Me. Often

:15:49.:15:58.

the money has not gone to the services. Mental health trust

:15:59.:16:03.

suffered a 2% cut between 2013 and 2015 in their budget. The number of

:16:04.:16:07.

psychiatric nurses went down by 1.4%. As he mentioned about money

:16:08.:16:13.

often ending up somewhere else is something that must be avoided. I

:16:14.:16:20.

think we would need to focus on children also. One in ten of

:16:21.:16:24.

children are suffering from mental health problems between the ages of

:16:25.:16:29.

five and 16. They are waiting a very long time to get help. We have the

:16:30.:16:33.

same challenge in Scotland, we measure it and know how difficult it

:16:34.:16:38.

is. We have managed to improve it by increasing staff and funding. But we

:16:39.:16:45.

also have a long road to walk. We're not thinking about the whole spread

:16:46.:16:49.

of mental health support in the community. The way people work,

:16:50.:16:55.

insecure jobs, people struggling to keep a roof over their head. We will

:16:56.:17:01.

later debate welfare reforms and the mental health issues coming from

:17:02.:17:05.

that. Three times the number of poor children will have a mental health

:17:06.:17:09.

issue as children in a stable and well financed family. I would like

:17:10.:17:14.

to ass, are we not going to try to join up our decisions and look at

:17:15.:17:18.

other policy areas in how people work, in how people are supported

:17:19.:17:21.

and the mental health suffering that comes from that? Can I thank the

:17:22.:17:27.

honourable lady for her usual well-informed contribution to the

:17:28.:17:34.

debate on these issues. I thank her for what she said about stigma and

:17:35.:17:38.

the general approach the government has been taking. Absolutely right,

:17:39.:17:43.

we have supported the time to change the anti-stigma campaign. We have

:17:44.:17:48.

got to do more. She is right about children and wider cross government

:17:49.:17:54.

work. In relation to children and young people we have a minister in

:17:55.:17:58.

the Department for Education in England with responsibilities for

:17:59.:18:02.

mental health. In terms of cross government work, my honourable

:18:03.:18:04.

friend from the Home Office is here to demonstrate we do take those

:18:05.:18:08.

cross government responsibilities seriously. One of the ways we will

:18:09.:18:13.

manage the response to the task force is there will be a cross

:18:14.:18:20.

governmental team to make sure departments are joined up, housing

:18:21.:18:24.

has something to do with this as well as education. Work and pensions

:18:25.:18:29.

has something to do with this, as the honourable lady said. We will

:18:30.:18:33.

make sure it is done. I should have said in my remarks of course, but

:18:34.:18:37.

didn't for reasons of time, what has been said in the task force on what

:18:38.:18:41.

the Prime Minister said is in addition to the one .5 billion

:18:42.:18:47.

pounds that was announced in March for the mental health service the

:18:48.:18:51.

children in England and the 30 million pounds a year eating

:18:52.:18:54.

disorder work to recognised increased pressures on children,

:18:55.:19:02.

because she is right, the earlier help the children do better. Can I

:19:03.:19:08.

join the minister in thanking the Independent mental health task force

:19:09.:19:11.

for the work they have done, but can I ask him to go further in how we

:19:12.:19:18.

are going to track with greater transparency, this money is spent in

:19:19.:19:21.

the right place, not just within health but social care as well. He

:19:22.:19:25.

will know those suffering from mental health problems, are cared

:19:26.:19:29.

for in the community and the social care. It is vital we have parity

:19:30.:19:40.

across social care. Can I thank my honourable friend and recognise the

:19:41.:19:45.

work of the Royal College, it's President, Simon Wesley, was

:19:46.:19:48.

involved in the report and they were closely involved, so I thank them

:19:49.:19:52.

for that. It is important to track this. The clinical commissioning

:19:53.:19:58.

groups assessment framework will help us do this through the health

:19:59.:20:03.

service. The money that Prime Minister announced in relation to

:20:04.:20:08.

community crisis, the extra 400 million pounds announced in January,

:20:09.:20:11.

will be spent throughout the community. It is essential we do

:20:12.:20:17.

track it. There has been a lack of data. The honourable lady away

:20:18.:20:25.

victory knows about this. I answer questions to her saying this

:20:26.:20:28.

information is not collect it centrally. I have noticed this. We

:20:29.:20:36.

are in the process of changing that. The data was in process of being

:20:37.:20:41.

changed and more information will be available. In order to track

:20:42.:20:46.

properly, we need the information. We are improving the data, but it is

:20:47.:20:50.

important to track it both in local authority work as well as community

:20:51.:20:58.

work. It is immensely encouraging he notices his own answers. Mr Kevin

:20:59.:21:05.

Jones. Extra resources are important, but what are the main

:21:06.:21:12.

messages from this report is we need to hard-wire mental health and

:21:13.:21:17.

well-being into public policy. Twice as many people take their own lives

:21:18.:21:20.

and are killed on our roads every year. With the Minister agree with

:21:21.:21:24.

me it is time for a national campaign to address this issue? Yes,

:21:25.:21:33.

Mr Speaker and I thank the right honourable gentleman for his

:21:34.:21:36.

comments and his own work in this area. Included in the

:21:37.:21:42.

recommendations is a national ambition to reduce, by 10%, the

:21:43.:21:46.

number of suicides, which will be a reduction of 400 a year. There are

:21:47.:21:53.

some areas that are piloting what is called a zero suicide ambition

:21:54.:21:58.

strategy. Three areas piloting this and this needs probably more

:21:59.:22:02.

prominence than it has got. There is an national suicide prevention

:22:03.:22:07.

strategy. I am reviewing that and seeing how it can be better

:22:08.:22:12.

implemented locally. Not all local areas have a similar strategy. It is

:22:13.:22:15.

right it gets better prominence. We had a debate on it not too long girl

:22:16.:22:20.

at Westminster Hall and it is a significant issue for men in

:22:21.:22:25.

particular. Three times as many men take their own lives, as women.

:22:26.:22:28.

Although the increase in the number of women, which was noticed a few

:22:29.:22:32.

weeks ago, is significant. It is important we talk about this more,

:22:33.:22:39.

recognise suicide is not inevitable, have an ambition to challenge that

:22:40.:22:42.

and do more and I'm confident the honourable gentleman can do that, as

:22:43.:22:47.

he has done other things. It is a sad fact that in health care, those

:22:48.:22:53.

professionals who at the most to the service do not necessarily receive

:22:54.:22:57.

the same level of acclamation of those working in more glamorous

:22:58.:23:01.

specialties. What does the Minister think can be done to improve the

:23:02.:23:04.

status of those working within mental health care and thus mental

:23:05.:23:07.

health care as an attract career option? Good question. It is

:23:08.:23:15.

important true value is given to those who work in such an area. At

:23:16.:23:23.

all levels. When we have seen some of the examples of poor quality care

:23:24.:23:27.

and the tragedies that have occurred, we realise the value is

:23:28.:23:31.

placed on those who display a kindness as well as skill, and

:23:32.:23:37.

demonstrate their qualifications. We need to talk about the quality of

:23:38.:23:42.

good care. We need to make sure people who go into these professions

:23:43.:23:46.

have a career path from what other entry level they have. We want to

:23:47.:23:49.

encourage greater psychiatric awareness in medical training and

:23:50.:23:53.

clinical, medical political training for those leaving medical schools. I

:23:54.:23:59.

know Simon Wesley from the Royal College has done much work relating

:24:00.:24:04.

to this. But emphasising those who care for those in the most

:24:05.:24:07.

distressed situations, whether it is hospital or in the communities,

:24:08.:24:13.

deserve our thanks, encouragement and proper training. Increased money

:24:14.:24:17.

for training is included in the package the government will be

:24:18.:24:20.

working on, will be a vital part of that. Two weeks ago the minister

:24:21.:24:28.

came to talk to parents who are campaigning to get an inpatient

:24:29.:24:31.

facility for children and young people in the Hull area, as the

:24:32.:24:34.

previous one was closed several years ago. I wonder if the minister

:24:35.:24:40.

could update my constituents about any progress and whether any of the

:24:41.:24:43.

money allocated to mental health services will be used in Hull? I

:24:44.:24:50.

thank the honourable lady for her question. It was good to see her

:24:51.:24:57.

there with her constituents. I don't think there is any new money

:24:58.:25:00.

specifically needed in order to deliver the commitment in providing

:25:01.:25:09.

inpatient care for young people in Hull and the surrounding area. It

:25:10.:25:13.

seems it was already agreed right people, the problem was the

:25:14.:25:17.

delivery. She will recall the frustration I expressed sitting

:25:18.:25:22.

round a table, there where trust representatives, but for some reason

:25:23.:25:26.

it was impossible for people to come to a decision. The update is, I have

:25:27.:25:32.

taken that away with some degree of concern on how we resolve the issue,

:25:33.:25:36.

whether has to be a national decision on the allocation of

:25:37.:25:40.

finance and priorities, where you have a clear, local need which does

:25:41.:25:44.

need to be dealt with. And we will make progress on this. On bird 's

:25:45.:25:50.

generally, we have more beds the young people than ever before, 15

:25:51.:25:54.

more since I came into my role, but they are not always in the right

:25:55.:25:58.

places. Her area demonstrated that. But I don't think there is anything

:25:59.:26:01.

in the announcement that affected the importance of it that had

:26:02.:26:03.

already been recognised. I warmly welcome the initiative,

:26:04.:26:16.

Eiffel this area was cross-party. Can I make two brief pleas to the

:26:17.:26:19.

Minister, one is that we mustn't lose sight of acute mental health

:26:20.:26:25.

episodes, for children and young people out of hours and weekends

:26:26.:26:30.

which is an issue that has been long-standing, for instance in my

:26:31.:26:33.

constituency and the other issue is to ret syndrome, it falls between

:26:34.:26:38.

the strategies of education and health. One in 100 children are

:26:39.:26:43.

diagnosed with it, it is an important neurological decision that

:26:44.:26:47.

we need to address. Will he deal with it as part of his wider mental

:26:48.:26:58.

view. I thank the honourable gentleman, indeed, the attention

:26:59.:27:03.

that is now being paid, recognising people who need urgent treatment

:27:04.:27:07.

will go to accident and emergency, it has been recognised by the

:27:08.:27:10.

government 's determination to ensure emergency access 24-7 by

:27:11.:27:17.

placing more psychiatric liaison in hospitals and in improving crisis

:27:18.:27:20.

care in the community, so my honourable friend is right to

:27:21.:27:25.

recognise that. There are a number of syndromes and issues that have

:27:26.:27:28.

particular qualities associated with them that need individual care and

:27:29.:27:31.

my honourable friend is right to raise those who suffer from

:27:32.:27:38.

Tourette's. Thank you Mr Speaker, the task force recognises the

:27:39.:27:43.

importance of housing, and I think it is right that his department made

:27:44.:27:47.

no representations to the Treasury before the changes to housing

:27:48.:27:51.

benefit for tenants in supported housing was announced and they have

:27:52.:27:55.

made no official representations to other departments as recently as

:27:56.:27:59.

three weeks ago. Will the minister now make the case to his colleagues

:28:00.:28:03.

in the Department for Communities and Local Government and the

:28:04.:28:10.

Department for work and pensions, to exempt people. I understand, the

:28:11.:28:18.

honourable Lady's point, and I know that such issues are being

:28:19.:28:22.

considered extremely carefully by those who are responsible for

:28:23.:28:26.

developing the policy, but I will make sure that her further concerns

:28:27.:28:30.

are noted and that the department's interest is already recognised.

:28:31.:28:36.

There is so much good stuff in this report that I would also like to

:28:37.:28:41.

congratulate the authors of the report and my honourable friend for

:28:42.:28:46.

the interest he has taken in it. I particularly welcome the recognition

:28:47.:28:49.

of psychiatric liaison in the report, the gap in the provision and

:28:50.:28:52.

the commitment to having psychiatric liaison services at the core level,

:28:53.:29:00.

in half of hospitals by 2020. Could my honourable friend tell me whether

:29:01.:29:03.

this is fully funded and given the difficulties in getting the services

:29:04.:29:07.

in place, will he take a close interest in the plan to make this

:29:08.:29:12.

happen in practice? I thank my honourable friend for her interest

:29:13.:29:16.

in the subject which he had expressed to me previously, and her

:29:17.:29:21.

work in relation to this. Yes, how determination is that the extra ?1

:29:22.:29:26.

billion a year that will be spent on mental health services, will cover,

:29:27.:29:30.

training and the commitment that we have made in elation to this 24-7

:29:31.:29:39.

cover. -- made in relation. It was identified, in the crisis care can

:29:40.:29:43.

call that, that was so successful in the first 12 or 18 months, and I

:29:44.:29:48.

determination is to make sure that these facilities are provided. The

:29:49.:29:56.

report adds to the consensus, led by Lord crisp's commission, and led by

:29:57.:30:01.

my right honourable friend from North Norfolk, ending out of

:30:02.:30:11.

practice out of area treatment. Would the Minister, put a timetable

:30:12.:30:18.

on that process? Mr Speaker, the task force recommendation is that

:30:19.:30:23.

out of area placement should be entered by 2020, Lord crisp's report

:30:24.:30:28.

said 2017. I would like to see it done soon as is reasonably

:30:29.:30:33.

practicable, because we want to make sure, that where people can be

:30:34.:30:37.

treated locally it makes a real difference and the Honourable Lady

:30:38.:30:40.

for Hull North, who was talking just a moment ago, there have been one or

:30:41.:30:46.

two cases there that have been treated further away than they

:30:47.:30:49.

should. They lose the local community links, to assist them. We

:30:50.:30:56.

all want to see an end to that. I wanted to be done as soon as

:30:57.:30:59.

possible and it will certainly be done within the task force

:31:00.:31:02.

recommended timescale and if it can be done any quicker locally, area by

:31:03.:31:06.

area then I will be very much welcoming that. Thank you Mr Speaker

:31:07.:31:13.

and I welcome the government's positive response to the task force.

:31:14.:31:18.

While effective acute care is vital, and prevention is better than two,

:31:19.:31:23.

will the government look at ongoing training for all GPs in mental

:31:24.:31:27.

health, so that all patients can have access to early diagnosis, care

:31:28.:31:32.

and treatment, to prevent problems escalating. Yes, my honourable

:31:33.:31:40.

friend again makes a good point, GPs will very often be contacted first

:31:41.:31:48.

about some of these issues, wearing problem Mr burping. I know from my

:31:49.:31:53.

contacts with the BMA and the Royal College, and the Royal College also

:31:54.:31:57.

was very involved and interested in the task force report, it want to

:31:58.:32:01.

make sure that the doctors have enough training. Because it there is

:32:02.:32:05.

according to interest, but I know that all GPs are very concerned

:32:06.:32:08.

about this. They want to make sure that they have got the skills, but

:32:09.:32:12.

equally, they need to know that they can refer in the right place, that

:32:13.:32:18.

is where the increase in support for emergency and community services is

:32:19.:32:21.

about. That there are proper pathways so that people don't get

:32:22.:32:25.

stuck in any particular stage. White my 15-year-old constituents, Matthew

:32:26.:32:32.

Garnet who has autism has spent the last six months in psychiatric care

:32:33.:32:35.

30 miles from home. This unit does not have the specialism to meet his

:32:36.:32:40.

needs and he has to tear rate significantly, the specialist that

:32:41.:32:43.

he needs is in Northampton, where Matthew's family have been told that

:32:44.:32:47.

there are five young people ready for discharge but his ongoing care

:32:48.:32:51.

cannot be arranged. There is clearly a crisis on mental health care for

:32:52.:32:55.

children and adolescents, when will the Minister bring a plan to the

:32:56.:33:01.

house to address this and will he intervene to secure Matthew Garnett

:33:02.:33:03.

the bed that he so desperately needs? I thank the Honourable lady

:33:04.:33:07.

for her question, and of course if she wants to make a particular

:33:08.:33:11.

approach on that case, I am ready to listen. It is already in the works.

:33:12.:33:18.

To say a couple of things about it, in talking about specialist care,

:33:19.:33:23.

even though we want most young people to have access to get close

:33:24.:33:28.

to home, there will always be some particular specialist care that will

:33:29.:33:32.

require out of area treatment and that is perhaps the circumstance is

:33:33.:33:35.

that the honourable lady is referring to. It is then a question

:33:36.:33:41.

of getting the place, that requires, that emphasises why it is so

:33:42.:33:44.

important to have community care available so that there is discharge

:33:45.:33:48.

possible, proper care package and the like. That is precisely what the

:33:49.:33:53.

task force looked at and made recommendations, that way is already

:33:54.:33:58.

ongoing. As my timing of this has shown me, there are variations in

:33:59.:34:01.

practice in different places to make sure that discharges are handled

:34:02.:34:05.

better in some areas than others, the practice of the best has got to

:34:06.:34:09.

become the practice for all and everything is done to make sure that

:34:10.:34:12.

people are treated in the appropriate place at the appropriate

:34:13.:34:16.

time. Keeping people in hospital is not what everyone wants, that work

:34:17.:34:20.

is already going on, and I will make sure that the honourable lady gets

:34:21.:34:25.

an answer to her question. Thank you, I welcome his personal

:34:26.:34:30.

commitment to this issue, in this area. Because it demonstrates the

:34:31.:34:33.

importance of mental health issues in the NHS. Would he be able to

:34:34.:34:39.

clarify how he is going to be able to hold the NHS to account so that

:34:40.:34:43.

this money is spent on additional mental health, as opposed to just

:34:44.:34:49.

frittered away? Mr Speaker I think the engagement of the NHS with his

:34:50.:34:52.

task force needs to be recognised and emphasised, this was a task

:34:53.:34:57.

force that will see the NHS itself set up, because it wanted to be very

:34:58.:35:02.

clear about the state of mental health services and take a five-year

:35:03.:35:06.

forward view which is what the task force is about. And the task force

:35:07.:35:10.

went beyond that to say it has got a 10-year vision which I welcome. But

:35:11.:35:17.

everything can be done in meek -- not everything can be done in the

:35:18.:35:21.

Parliamentary cycles. I think that the certainty that he wants, is

:35:22.:35:26.

demonstrated in the NHS's own involvement and the endorsement of

:35:27.:35:29.

the recommendation and the work on transparency that is so important to

:35:30.:35:32.

us to make sure that we can all see where the money is gone and spent.

:35:33.:35:36.

That is what should hold them to account on the expenditure issue.

:35:37.:35:46.

Rachel. The report highlights that 50% of diagnosis for mental health,

:35:47.:35:52.

by the age of 14, 70 5% by the age of 24. Yet he also said in his

:35:53.:35:58.

report, most children and young people get no support. I want to ask

:35:59.:36:04.

the minister what specific work will be put in place to look at

:36:05.:36:07.

prevention and early intervention including early diagnosis? Again, I

:36:08.:36:14.

thank the honourable lady for her interest and her considerable

:36:15.:36:16.

knowledge in these issues that she has raised a number of times before.

:36:17.:36:23.

As an example, two things, we need increased expenditure on children

:36:24.:36:28.

and Young People's of services, the 1.25 billion that will be spent over

:36:29.:36:32.

the next five years, that is improving the baseline which

:36:33.:36:35.

includes early prevention. I would also mention the full roll-out of

:36:36.:36:40.

the services to children by 2018. That is already in place for 70% of

:36:41.:36:45.

the country and it will be completed by 2018. That ensures that children

:36:46.:36:50.

get early access to the psychological therapies that they

:36:51.:36:52.

need and I think it is an important development which I hope that she

:36:53.:36:59.

welcomes. As chairman for the all Parliamentary party group for mental

:37:00.:37:02.

health by very much welcome this report and I think it should be

:37:03.:37:05.

welcomed on all sides of the house. With the Minister agree with me that

:37:06.:37:11.

we actually have now a unique opportunity, we have a high-quality

:37:12.:37:14.

public debate in mental health where we are addressing the stigma. We

:37:15.:37:19.

have a government, with the Prime Minister who has made speeches in

:37:20.:37:22.

the last three weeks about mental health setting out the government's

:37:23.:37:27.

priorities. This is a unique opportunity for him and this

:37:28.:37:30.

change in mental health. And to change in mental health. And to

:37:31.:37:37.

deliver real quality change. I thank my right honourable friend, can I

:37:38.:37:41.

pay tribute to his own work as chair of the committee, and indeed to all

:37:42.:37:44.

colleagues in the house who have raised these issues over a period of

:37:45.:37:48.

time and partly through their own personal experiences and bravery in

:37:49.:37:50.

talking about them have helped them in a process that we are engaged on.

:37:51.:37:55.

Yes we have a great opportunity, we have got a 10-year vision set out by

:37:56.:38:00.

the task force, we have got a commitment from the NHS. We have a

:38:01.:38:04.

top level, on all sides of the house, a commitment to this. I hope

:38:05.:38:08.

that we will see an opportunity to develop services as people would

:38:09.:38:11.

have wanted and for which in all honesty they have waited too long.

:38:12.:38:18.

Can I welcome the task force report and also can I welcome the

:38:19.:38:23.

government's reaction to it, the minister, of state did indicate that

:38:24.:38:29.

there was ?1 billion being made available by 2021, I'm wondering

:38:30.:38:32.

what relationship there will be with that and the devolved institutions

:38:33.:38:34.

in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. And if there is any

:38:35.:38:41.

consequences for finances there? Although Mr Speaker I read the

:38:42.:38:45.

answers to my own questions, I can't recall on this, the honourable

:38:46.:38:51.

gentleman has caught me out on something I don't generally know the

:38:52.:38:55.

answer to. I will write to him or put an answer in the library dealing

:38:56.:38:59.

with devolved administrations, I think we're talking about

:39:00.:39:02.

responsibility for England because this is a devolved matter. In terms

:39:03.:39:07.

of the development of the mental health services, there is good close

:39:08.:39:09.

cooperation between officials and that will certainly continue. I will

:39:10.:39:13.

make sure that there is an answer in the finances in the library. Mr

:39:14.:39:21.

Speaker, the work that the Minister is outlining, has in my mind being

:39:22.:39:25.

one of the most important pieces of work in this Parliament and I

:39:26.:39:28.

welcome the investment, can I just build on the comment from Mike on

:39:29.:39:33.

the wall friend -- from my honourable friend, on this stigma

:39:34.:39:38.

side of mental health. With depression being one of the most

:39:39.:39:41.

terrible diseases someone could suffer from. Can I also congratulate

:39:42.:39:48.

the writers of Coronation Street, with the Steve Magoffin all

:39:49.:39:53.

storylines that has addressed some stigmas and stereotypes that come

:39:54.:39:56.

with that. I urge my right honourable friend to make sure that

:39:57.:40:00.

as much effort is put into tackling the stigma of mental health as well

:40:01.:40:03.

as the practical investment in services that can also be offered.

:40:04.:40:09.

I thank my honourable friend for his question. I do praise the storyline

:40:10.:40:16.

in Coronation Street, just as much as East Enders who have done a

:40:17.:40:24.

tremendous job in the perinatal story with Stacey over the past few

:40:25.:40:30.

weeks. We much informed, particularly by young people

:40:31.:40:34.

themselves we have worked with, in relation to change. It is a terrible

:40:35.:40:40.

thing. It has been partly responsible for the breaking of the

:40:41.:40:43.

link between physical and mental health. One of the things the task

:40:44.:40:48.

force recommended and the government is going to deliver on, is to make

:40:49.:40:52.

sure more people with mental health problems have their physical issues

:40:53.:40:56.

related to, so we can have this terrible issue of a different

:40:57.:41:01.

mortality ratio between those with mental health difficulties and

:41:02.:41:04.

others. And dealing with stigma to make sure people can come forward. I

:41:05.:41:13.

thank the Minister for his statement and acknowledged the work of the

:41:14.:41:18.

task force report. Can I encourage the Minister, along with his

:41:19.:41:22.

colleague, take a particular interest in mental health in-school

:41:23.:41:28.

training programme, which has been specifically developed by a number

:41:29.:41:31.

of practitioners to ensure schools are better equipped to support the

:41:32.:41:36.

mental health and well-being needs of pupils. And to help to safeguard

:41:37.:41:41.

those interests in a system that is designed to run similarly to that of

:41:42.:41:45.

child protection, which schools are obviously well familiar? I know of

:41:46.:41:54.

his long-standing interest on these issues. In England there is a pilot

:41:55.:42:01.

project of 27 schools being run by the Department for Education to

:42:02.:42:03.

locate and identify a single point of contact in those schools for

:42:04.:42:07.

mental health issues for young people. And depending on the results

:42:08.:42:11.

of that, more can be rolled out. Early identification support in

:42:12.:42:15.

school is essential. Artwork is going on. There is a number of

:42:16.:42:21.

different initiatives, sometimes inspired by people who have seen

:42:22.:42:24.

personal tragedies in their families. I have seen some of those,

:42:25.:42:29.

where people have realised a tragedy that has befallen their young

:42:30.:42:32.

person, might not have happened if their friends had been more aware of

:42:33.:42:36.

the circumstances, if school or college had been more aware. We are

:42:37.:42:41.

looking at all of these different initiatives in terms of West

:42:42.:42:45.

practice, but the honourable gentleman was right to raise it. Can

:42:46.:42:50.

I congratulate the Minister for his commitment to this and the

:42:51.:42:55.

government. As he spoke about best practice in his last answer, in

:42:56.:42:58.

Stafford last month we held a round table about mental health. One of

:42:59.:43:05.

the issues that came of local initiatives, both in the public and

:43:06.:43:11.

the NGO sector, but sometimes they didn't know about each other. Could

:43:12.:43:15.

he point us to best practice in this sector? I am happy to do so. As I

:43:16.:43:26.

indicated earlier, one of the things that has perplexed me since being in

:43:27.:43:30.

the role is the variation of practice in different places. At the

:43:31.:43:32.

time when it has never been easier through a lack Nick means to

:43:33.:43:38.

transfer information, get people aware of best practice, it is still

:43:39.:43:43.

difficult to move things around. We need to make sure there is a

:43:44.:43:47.

clearing house, a website of clearing house ideas in areas like

:43:48.:43:55.

this. Sorry? Absolutely. We need to make sure we have got a proper ways

:43:56.:44:02.

to access all the different ideas. I know a lot of work is already put

:44:03.:44:06.

into this and we need to make sure it is easier to access different

:44:07.:44:10.

ideas, but there is a lot going on and a lot can be done in relation to

:44:11.:44:15.

spreading of practice. Exchanges here are not a private conversation.

:44:16.:44:19.

It is quite important from the vantage point of those who take a

:44:20.:44:25.

full and complete record of all proceedings, they can hear what is

:44:26.:44:26.

being said. The Minister has welcomed the work

:44:27.:44:43.

of the task force and its report is very comprehensive. I agree with him

:44:44.:44:47.

entirely. He has said he will look to implement these measures on a

:44:48.:44:52.

rolling programme. Will he, and can we infer from that, he is committed

:44:53.:44:57.

to implementing all of the measures and accepts all of the

:44:58.:45:04.

recommendations? Yes, I think we have indicated we accept all of the

:45:05.:45:09.

recommendations by the task force. What I'd like to do is roll out

:45:10.:45:14.

responses to them over a period of time so very regularly back to the

:45:15.:45:19.

House. But the commitment he have, both in expenditure, training and

:45:20.:45:22.

dealing with the recommendations is clear. Mr Speaker, you wouldn't want

:45:23.:45:29.

to hear all of the private conversations on the floor of the

:45:30.:45:34.

House, nor would be upstairs, but I see the honourable lady quite often

:45:35.:45:37.

over this, it is not unnatural we have the odd exchange over the

:45:38.:45:42.

dispatch box. I must declare an interest as a registered clinical

:45:43.:45:47.

psychologist and I thank the Minister for his commitment and the

:45:48.:45:51.

task force for their report. Considering mental health, the

:45:52.:45:54.

report highlights 40% of people living in care homes after two by

:45:55.:46:00.

depression. This contributes to morbidity. Alongside medical and

:46:01.:46:03.

social care, will the Minister commit to funding for older adults

:46:04.:46:12.

to address the growing older mental health needs? I thank the honourable

:46:13.:46:17.

lady for both her work in relation to this area, her commitment to this

:46:18.:46:22.

area since she has been in the House and being at a National Autistic

:46:23.:46:29.

Society event last night. Can I look at that particular suggestion? It is

:46:30.:46:32.

recognised with the growing incidence of dementia and other

:46:33.:46:36.

issues, those in care homes increasingly frail, of course there

:46:37.:46:41.

will be need for further specialised work. Can I look at that area in

:46:42.:46:46.

particular and come back to her in due course. Urgent question, Mr

:46:47.:46:54.

Chris Bryant. Mr Speaker, Wilbur leader of the House make a statement

:46:55.:46:57.

on the government consultation on shorter money? Minister, John

:46:58.:47:07.

Penrose. I am happy to confirm since we last discuss this topic on the

:47:08.:47:10.

day the House rose the recess, we have completed the steps I promised

:47:11.:47:15.

at the time. On the 12th of February I tabled the statutory implements to

:47:16.:47:21.

change policy development grants in line with the recommended changes

:47:22.:47:25.

put forward by the Independent electoral commission. Last Thursday,

:47:26.:47:29.

the deputy leader of the House and myself tabled a request for views

:47:30.:47:34.

about potential similar changes to short money. Therefore I hope the

:47:35.:47:39.

how's and appreciate why I am responding. Both forms of taxpayer

:47:40.:47:45.

funding for political parties are strong and since short money is more

:47:46.:47:49.

valuable, it seems sensible to take a similar approach. The request for

:47:50.:47:54.

views asks important questions. The cost of short money has gone up why

:47:55.:48:00.

50% since 2010. And by a whopping 68% by the end of this Parliament,

:48:01.:48:06.

if nothing is done. At a time when everybody else outside Westminster

:48:07.:48:09.

has had to tighten their belts, why should politicians expectedly

:48:10.:48:14.

treated differently, feathering their own nests at the tax payer's

:48:15.:48:18.

expense. The rises in short money are linked to the retail price index

:48:19.:48:23.

inflation every year. Benefits claimants get rises linked to the

:48:24.:48:27.

lower consumer price index inflation each year. So how can any politician

:48:28.:48:32.

look their constituents in the eye and say they deserve a bigger rise

:48:33.:48:35.

every year and someone who is looking for a job or on a pension,

:48:36.:48:41.

or living with a disability? The rises in short money also linked to

:48:42.:48:44.

the number of votes cast at elections. This is contributed this

:48:45.:48:54.

year to an enormous 30% increase from 7.4 quarter of ?1 million to

:48:55.:49:00.

almost 9.5 million pounds earlier this year. How can this be justified

:49:01.:49:04.

when many vital public services of having to cope with cuts of 19%.

:49:05.:49:10.

Short money is also notably and transparent, it is tax payer's money

:49:11.:49:14.

after all, but there is no requirements to publish details on

:49:15.:49:20.

how it is spent. There are, rightly, requirements on the development

:49:21.:49:23.

grants and pretty much every area of government funding. How can it be

:49:24.:49:27.

right in the modern age, the politicians do expect to be given a

:49:28.:49:37.

load of hard earned taxpayer's cash, more than ?35 million in total since

:49:38.:49:42.

2010 for the Labour Party, without at least explaining how it gets

:49:43.:49:46.

spent? And finally, the distribution of short money between parties

:49:47.:49:51.

throws up some odd results. Ukip, with one MP gets 688 thousand

:49:52.:49:55.

pounds, although the honourable gentleman has, in a principled

:49:56.:50:01.

stand, turned it down. While the Green party, also with one MP get

:50:02.:50:06.

less than a third of that. It makes sense to ask if this can be

:50:07.:50:10.

improved. These are important questions which need to be answered.

:50:11.:50:15.

The request for views runs until March the 7th, so there is plenty of

:50:16.:50:20.

time for all sides of the House to submit their views and opinions.

:50:21.:50:24.

There will be plenty of time to debate these issues here or in

:50:25.:50:27.

Westminster Hall. We are off to a flying start and I will take

:50:28.:50:33.

contributions from everybody here today in the spirit of constructive

:50:34.:50:36.

submissions and suggestions in answer to the questions, which the

:50:37.:50:42.

request for views has raised. That is all very well, at short money has

:50:43.:50:48.

absolutely nothing to do with the Cabinet Office. It is House

:50:49.:50:52.

business, not government is must. The point is it enables Parliament

:50:53.:50:56.

to do it is in this properly. The accounting officer is not the

:50:57.:51:00.

permanent Secretary of the Cabinet Office, it is the clerk of this

:51:01.:51:05.

House. And the leader of the House should be doing his job properly and

:51:06.:51:09.

answering questions. Can this minister confirm that any changes

:51:10.:51:13.

will have to be debated and voted on the floor of this House? Can he

:51:14.:51:19.

confirm that big cars this is House business, it will not subject to a

:51:20.:51:25.

government whip? This is the saltiest so-called concentration I

:51:26.:51:29.

have ever come across. It deliberately forgets to mention that

:51:30.:51:33.

short money is linked to how many seats and how many votes all the

:51:34.:51:37.

opposition parties got at a general election. So the main reason short

:51:38.:51:43.

money has increased in 2015, is because this government has a much

:51:44.:51:47.

smaller majority than the Labour government or the Coalition

:51:48.:51:49.

Government and the opposition party has got more seats and votes than in

:51:50.:51:56.

previous parliaments. Can the Minister confirm, contrary to what

:51:57.:52:00.

he says, this isn't an 19% cut, with inflation it is a 24% cut. How can

:52:01.:52:06.

that be right when the Chancellor has increased the cost of his

:52:07.:52:09.

political office to the taxpayer, by 204%? Or is there one rule for the

:52:10.:52:16.

opposition and quite another for the government. The minister said last

:52:17.:52:21.

time, the cost and number of taxpayer Tory special advisers, the

:52:22.:52:26.

only bitty is responsible for, is coming down. But that is not true

:52:27.:52:30.

either. Since the general election, that figure has gone up. Will the

:52:31.:52:37.

government be taking an 19% cut on the 1st of April? No, I don't

:52:38.:52:41.

suppose they will. The consultation published in the half term recess,

:52:42.:52:47.

he should be ashamed of himself, and allows 11 working days for responses

:52:48.:52:50.

and then seems to intend to implement a decision less than three

:52:51.:52:55.

weeks later. The lack of time to the two Conservative chaired select

:52:56.:53:03.

committees that have expressed an interest in an enquiry, complete

:53:04.:53:07.

those enquiries? People will conclude this government is

:53:08.:53:12.

developing a nasty, authoritarian streak and an overweening executive

:53:13.:53:15.

wants to crush all opposition because they are afraid of scrutiny.

:53:16.:53:20.

When we were in government we troubled short money and the Tories

:53:21.:53:25.

didn't hesitate to bank ?46 million. So we won't take any lessons from

:53:26.:53:30.

the Minister. When I was deputy leader of the House, some people

:53:31.:53:36.

suggested the we should cut short money. We said no, democracy is

:53:37.:53:45.

worth protecting. This isn't a consultation and cutting the cost of

:53:46.:53:49.

politics, we would welcome that. It is a pernicious ultimatum and the

:53:50.:53:53.

government should withdraw it and let it is prepared to put spuds on

:53:54.:53:57.

the table as well. To quote the Minister himself, why should the

:53:58.:54:00.

government be treated any different from the opposition, feathering

:54:01.:54:04.

their own nest West remarked that is what they are doing. Mr Speaker, I

:54:05.:54:15.

am happy to reassure the honourable gentleman the cost of Spads has

:54:16.:54:20.

fallen since the general election. I would also point out to him at the

:54:21.:54:25.

request for views is entirely clear about the various different causes

:54:26.:54:29.

of the rise in short money. It also asks for consultation, views and

:54:30.:54:35.

expressions of how it might be amended point, by point. You are

:54:36.:54:40.

wrong about the way the request for views is done. I would further point

:54:41.:54:46.

out, even if there are no changes to some of the proposals in the request

:54:47.:54:51.

for views, the Labour Party will still receive more funding in real

:54:52.:54:56.

terms, than the Conservative Party did in 2009, 20 ten. They will

:54:57.:55:02.

receive an estimated ?11 million of taxpayer's money over this

:55:03.:55:06.

Parliament. There will be no real reduction in cash terms, in fact a

:55:07.:55:12.

small increase in cash terms even after a 19% cut compared to 2014, 20

:55:13.:55:17.

15. Mr Speaker, I was hoping for a more construct of response. I was

:55:18.:55:23.

hoping for a more balanced response, I was hoping for something I could

:55:24.:55:27.

use as a set of proposals to respond to the request for views. That has

:55:28.:55:32.

not in what we have had and I deeply regret it. My hope there is time for

:55:33.:55:36.

us to move forward in a constructive pattern. Can I thank my honourable

:55:37.:55:44.

friend for launching a consultation which we have to confess seemed to

:55:45.:55:50.

be lacking earlier in this process. That is obviously a step forward. It

:55:51.:55:56.

is legitimate to ask the question as to whether it costs more or less to

:55:57.:56:02.

run an opposition on how big the majority of the government is the

:56:03.:56:06.

official opposition is a function that can be carried out regardless

:56:07.:56:13.

of the number of seeds that it has. Can I assure my honourable friend,

:56:14.:56:17.

my committee will continue to take an interest in this matter. Although

:56:18.:56:21.

I hope it can be resolved rather more consensually than today's

:56:22.:56:22.

exchanges. I thank durable friend for his

:56:23.:56:32.

comments, particularly about resolving things more consensually.

:56:33.:56:39.

I await the conclusions of this community, and it must make us at

:56:40.:56:43.

least ask the question about what the proper cost of running an

:56:44.:56:48.

opposition should be. The official opposition or indeed some of the

:56:49.:56:52.

other opposition parties. They do not necessarily vary depending on

:56:53.:56:55.

election which the current system election which the current system

:56:56.:57:00.

does require for example. Mr Speaker Ida Keren interest as the national

:57:01.:57:05.

secretary of the SNP. It is a good thing, that a consultation is

:57:06.:57:10.

happening, but why just among MPs, what about the public? While there

:57:11.:57:15.

is nothing wrong in principle of reducing the cost of politics, could

:57:16.:57:19.

we reduce the cost and number of special advisers and the house of

:57:20.:57:22.

lords. Given the proximity to the end of the financial year, when will

:57:23.:57:27.

the government confirmed the position of when they employ, what

:57:28.:57:32.

the settlement will actually be. Mr Speaker, the conclusions of the

:57:33.:57:37.

views will depend on what views are expressed. I don't want to prejudge

:57:38.:57:43.

that, they will have a want to promptly move, so that they have

:57:44.:57:49.

maximum time for planning and certainty. I regard short money as a

:57:50.:58:01.

critical part of our democracy, but given the comparison, the realistic

:58:02.:58:04.

comparison with special advisers and the steps that this government is

:58:05.:58:09.

taken to have transparency of senior special advisers, does the Minister

:58:10.:58:14.

not think that it is appropriate for the opposition to have greater

:58:15.:58:17.

transparency around the salaries of their senior appointed researchers.

:58:18.:58:26.

Mr Speaker, my honourable friend who was involved with administering both

:58:27.:58:30.

short money and policy development grants before he came into this

:58:31.:58:34.

house knows what he speaks of. I think he is absolutely right that it

:58:35.:58:39.

is essential that we demand the same degree of transparency on taxpayers

:58:40.:58:43.

money for all areas and that should include the cost that is already

:58:44.:58:47.

transparent but also what money is being spent by both positive grants

:58:48.:58:54.

and also short money equally. I have no problem at all about the

:58:55.:58:57.

transparency that has just been asked for, the Minister is a decent

:58:58.:59:02.

man, I think he has been tasked with doing somebody else's business. What

:59:03.:59:06.

he is proposing is not actually the cost of politics because if it was,

:59:07.:59:10.

he would also be proposing the cut in the budget for special advisers.

:59:11.:59:14.

This is actually about gagging the opposition. Would the Minister scrap

:59:15.:59:18.

this rushed consultation, abandon the attack on the scrutiny of

:59:19.:59:22.

government and look again at how the cost of politics can be reduced, by

:59:23.:59:28.

including for instance chopping the budget for special advisers. I thank

:59:29.:59:35.

the rubble gentleman for his kind comments about me, and as a member

:59:36.:59:40.

of the whips office in the last government, I reciprocate of course.

:59:41.:59:43.

I would say that there are other ways of cutting, he is right,

:59:44.:59:49.

debility juju is the number of MPs in this house. There is another

:59:50.:59:53.

example. -- the ability to reduce the number. I would not want to

:59:54.:59:59.

limit to just this but I don't think that should be the enemy of doing

:00:00.:00:03.

this either. I think it is sensible and I hope that we can rely on his

:00:04.:00:10.

support for this. Having a hand in the creation of the grant and also

:00:11.:00:14.

arguing vigorously for short money increases when we were in

:00:15.:00:20.

opposition, I feel that, I have had to look carefully before arguing for

:00:21.:00:26.

anything other, that this needs to be reconsidered, this decision for

:00:27.:00:30.

such a substantial cut. It does seem to be, unacceptable that it is being

:00:31.:00:37.

introduced in one year. Everybody understands the need for financial

:00:38.:00:43.

stringency and for this house to take its share of those reductions,

:00:44.:00:48.

but could the Minister at least look to whether that reduction can be

:00:49.:00:53.

phased, and could the Minister also pick up carefully the point that has

:00:54.:00:57.

been made about special advisers, which have grown enormously, both

:00:58.:01:03.

under the Labour government, we got in the Coalition Government up to

:01:04.:01:08.

about 110 and it has been reduced a little bit recently. But still these

:01:09.:01:12.

numbers are very large and do provide a lot of assistance, to the

:01:13.:01:17.

government, and I think, there is although not asymmetry, elation ship

:01:18.:01:21.

between those two numbers. To look at short money would be a stake in

:01:22.:01:28.

isolation. Can I start by reassuring my honourable friend, we are not

:01:29.:01:33.

talking about a cut but a slower rise, the cost of short money has

:01:34.:01:38.

already risen by 50% since 2010, this is a very significant amount of

:01:39.:01:43.

money already. And also we are talking about reducing the amount of

:01:44.:01:46.

rise that would otherwise if nothing else was done, continue to be

:01:47.:01:51.

ratcheted up between now and the end of the parliament. I would also say

:01:52.:01:56.

to him that the cost of special advisers is still lower than the

:01:57.:02:01.

total cost put together of government funding from positive

:02:02.:02:03.

development grants, short money from other sources. Therefore I think

:02:04.:02:08.

that while I agree with him that it is not directly compatible, and

:02:09.:02:12.

there is some kind of symmetry, I'm sure that he is reassured that this

:02:13.:02:18.

bad salary bill is lower than the funding of opposition parties. --

:02:19.:02:22.

the special adviser salary bills. Can the Minister qualified as

:02:23.:02:26.

regards policy development grants and how it ties in with the

:02:27.:02:29.

proposals and use of the electoral commission? The Independent

:02:30.:02:39.

electoral commission has undertaken a fairly careful consultation over

:02:40.:02:42.

some period of time and has made some recommendations. The statutory

:02:43.:02:47.

instrument that I mention in my remarks, deals with some of those

:02:48.:02:52.

but not all of them. How we perceive with the remainder of the electoral

:02:53.:02:56.

the fact that the obvious parallels the fact that the obvious parallels

:02:57.:03:02.

between short money, we thought it was sensible to have one set of

:03:03.:03:09.

answers before we did the others. Policy money, has increased by 60%

:03:10.:03:16.

since 2010 -- short money. Is that really justifiable when councils of

:03:17.:03:21.

all colours are making very large efficiency savings, surely taxpayer

:03:22.:03:23.

funded political parties can do the same. It is absolutely right that

:03:24.:03:32.

people outside this place, the Westminster bubble, we'll look at

:03:33.:03:36.

our discussions today and they will not understand why politicians feel

:03:37.:03:39.

that they should be treated separately, why they think that the

:03:40.:03:43.

politicians should treat themselves as a special case. They will look at

:03:44.:03:46.

what has happened to their budget and will say that what is sauce for

:03:47.:03:50.

the goose should be sauce for the political gander as well. Setting

:03:51.:03:56.

aside for the moment, the detail for the request for views, can he say

:03:57.:04:03.

what the effect would have on scrutiny and the comfort or

:04:04.:04:06.

discomfort that the executive feels as it goes about its business? Mr

:04:07.:04:11.

Speaker has mentioned before, the amount of short money has already

:04:12.:04:16.

gone up by 50% since 2010, so opposition parties have a great deal

:04:17.:04:20.

more money in which to do the job than they had before. I would just

:04:21.:04:24.

referring back to the comment, the lady from Ukip, he has pointed out

:04:25.:04:32.

that the costs of research and many other political functions are now

:04:33.:04:36.

potentially lower, and it is certainly reasonable to expect given

:04:37.:04:39.

what has been asked of many other government departments and local

:04:40.:04:43.

authorities, for people to work more efficiently in future. I think the

:04:44.:04:49.

public will be astonished that full accounts do not have two be

:04:50.:04:53.

published, in the age of transparency. How is the minister

:04:54.:04:58.

going to put that right? I devoutly hope that the response of this will

:04:59.:05:03.

be an increase of transparency. We already have an improvement in

:05:04.:05:07.

transparency on taxpayer funded spending, we already had

:05:08.:05:10.

transparency that is far better for short money on policy development

:05:11.:05:17.

grants, a very similar to find -- similar kind of grant so it is out

:05:18.:05:21.

of step to assume that short money should be magically exempt. Thank

:05:22.:05:29.

you very much Mr Speaker, I would challenge the minister if I might Mr

:05:30.:05:33.

Speaker because identity this money is being for politicians, it is for

:05:34.:05:38.

our staff and support teams. It is essential that we have the staff and

:05:39.:05:42.

support teams so that we deliver well for our constituents and the

:05:43.:05:46.

people that we serve. Transparency is not an issue, none of us that I

:05:47.:05:51.

am aware of in this house would dispute transparency. Any move

:05:52.:05:54.

towards transparency would be broadly supported but the problem is

:05:55.:05:58.

this, my arithmetic seems to have gone awry here. Because my figures

:05:59.:06:04.

tell me that in 2010, the Chancellor employed for special advisers at a

:06:05.:06:15.

total cost of 2000 -- 230,000 to day he has ten special advisers, how can

:06:16.:06:23.

the Minister defend a 24% cut for those of us trying to make things

:06:24.:06:29.

work, and a 204% rise for those in the Chancellor 's office? The chance

:06:30.:06:35.

lap spikes special advice team is to speak now costs more than the total

:06:36.:06:38.

cost of policy development grants for all of us here, the TU P, Playa

:06:39.:06:46.

Comrie, Scottish National party, the Chancellor gets more than we do. As

:06:47.:06:54.

I have mentioned before, the cost of special advisers has fallen since

:06:55.:06:57.

the last general election, and Gordon Brown when he was Chancellor

:06:58.:07:01.

had more special advisers than the current Chancellor, he had more

:07:02.:07:08.

Spads, and the average salary of a special adviser is currently ?2000

:07:09.:07:14.

less than under Gordon Brown's government in 2009. Short money

:07:15.:07:22.

quite rightly exists to enable opposition parties to undertake

:07:23.:07:25.

scrutiny and Parliamentary duties therefore many of my constituents

:07:26.:07:29.

will find it hard to understand the funding received by Sinn Fein men

:07:30.:07:33.

are members neither attend this house nor participate in its

:07:34.:07:35.

activities, will my honourable friend undertake to look at this

:07:36.:07:42.

anomaly? The funding received, by Sinn Fein has for a long time been

:07:43.:07:49.

looked at as a separate and parallel consideration subject to a separate

:07:50.:07:53.

resolution of this has and I would expect that to continue to have

:07:54.:07:59.

special separate consideration. Could the government's that

:08:00.:08:02.

announcement it will be cutting short money, can I urge them to

:08:03.:08:07.

stick to guns. Don't retreat, the signs special pleading from critical

:08:08.:08:11.

parties wanting to get their hands on taxpayers cash is disgraceful.

:08:12.:08:15.

Can I urge my ministers not only to slash short money but to insist that

:08:16.:08:19.

all put to good parties publish fully audited accounts on what they

:08:20.:08:25.

spend that money on, as my party will be, so we can see what they

:08:26.:08:33.

spend their money on. Mr Speaker I find myself in strong agreement with

:08:34.:08:40.

the honourable gentleman's point. It is a timeworn phrase but it bears

:08:41.:08:44.

representation, sunlight is the best disinfectant. I'm sure that the

:08:45.:08:50.

Minister would agree that it is vital that the government secures

:08:51.:08:53.

value for money and given the purpose of the short money, to

:08:54.:08:57.

provide a credible opposition, would he agree that what we have seen

:08:58.:09:01.

today, the announcement of nuclear submarines without nuclear missile

:09:02.:09:04.

shows that much of it has been completely squandered. I hesitate to

:09:05.:09:13.

follow my honourable friend down that path. But if short money has

:09:14.:09:18.

gone up by 50% since 2010, we now have an incredible opposition

:09:19.:09:25.

instead. Since with one exception of what we have just heard there is

:09:26.:09:28.

such a strong feeling on opposition benches for what the government is

:09:29.:09:33.

intending to do is to undermine the work of opposition, would it not be

:09:34.:09:37.

sensible to do what was done originally when short money was

:09:38.:09:41.

introduced, namely to have constructive talks with the

:09:42.:09:46.

opposition. With no ultimatum in the beginning or in order to reach a

:09:47.:09:54.

fair settlement. I rather hope that it would elicit a strong and

:09:55.:09:57.

constructive response. I am afraid that has not been visible so far.

:09:58.:10:02.

Nonetheless, I hope that it perhaps may change between now and the end

:10:03.:10:07.

of the period of the request. I would also point out that because we

:10:08.:10:11.

are facing a deficit, time is pressing, and we have less fiscal

:10:12.:10:22.

slack. Will this short money reforms mean that the opposition parties

:10:23.:10:25.

will have two name and give the salaries of their special advisers?

:10:26.:10:31.

Although I don't know their renewed oration, I think they are hugely

:10:32.:10:40.

overpaid! Mr Speaker, given the level of transparency, which is

:10:41.:10:47.

rightly expected when employing spads, it is reasonable to answer an

:10:48.:10:52.

equivocal level of transparency on how Short Money is spent on people

:10:53.:10:57.

like Damien Wright, who I understand has just rejoined the Labour Party's

:10:58.:11:00.

payroll and also Seamus Milne as well. The Minister talks about

:11:01.:11:09.

savings to the taxpayer, but can he confirm any savings that will be

:11:10.:11:12.

made by these proposals be dwarfed by the extra cost to the public

:11:13.:11:16.

purse as a result of the Prime Minister's prolific rate of

:11:17.:11:22.

appointment to the other place? Actually, the cost of the House of

:11:23.:11:27.

Lords is falling, I am told, even while its numbers are rising. So the

:11:28.:11:31.

cost to the public purse will be reduced as a result of the changes

:11:32.:11:35.

happening at the other end. However, on his broader point about whether

:11:36.:11:40.

or not this amount of money is worthwhile, at the risk angering my

:11:41.:11:46.

colleagues from Scotland, it matters what we save and it matters we pay

:11:47.:11:51.

attention to every single detail, given the scale of the deficit we

:11:52.:11:54.

inherited from the last Labour government. Mr Speaker, the Minister

:11:55.:12:01.

will recognise that these to be consensus in the House around

:12:02.:12:06.

transparency. Would it be fair, given the government has reduced its

:12:07.:12:09.

travel costs within its time in government, the opposition should

:12:10.:12:15.

publicise its travel costs and the amount they pay the special advisers

:12:16.:12:21.

of and down the country? I will take it as a constructive request in

:12:22.:12:28.

request for views. Given the increase in costs since 2009 of

:12:29.:12:35.

spads by 56%, the proposed cut in the Short Money of 24% over four

:12:36.:12:41.

years is disgraceful. Isn't the Minister ashamed of his government's

:12:42.:12:49.

attack on democracy? I think we have already covered these points. The

:12:50.:12:53.

level of Short Money has gone up by 50% already, gone up by 30% in the

:12:54.:12:59.

last year. I think people listening to these exchanges will be asking

:13:00.:13:04.

is, how much does it cost to run an opposition and why do politicians

:13:05.:13:07.

feel they are so much more deserving of cash van example benefits

:13:08.:13:15.

claimants, whose money has not risen by nowhere near as much speed. Given

:13:16.:13:22.

the performance of the Leader of the Opposition, maybe we should take the

:13:23.:13:28.

opposition money away completely? Mr Speaker, I will take that as a

:13:29.:13:33.

suggestion and a proposal. I suspect the weight of views across the House

:13:34.:13:38.

may be rather against that and people do feel there is a place for

:13:39.:13:43.

Short Money if it is properly reformed, in the same way there is

:13:44.:13:53.

proper funding and it can function. Again, I will ask the question, with

:13:54.:13:58.

the cost of government spads rising, will the Minister concede a

:13:59.:14:05.

disgraceful 24% cut to opposition party's scrutiny funds is a case of

:14:06.:14:08.

double standards and an impediment to the scrutiny, by the opposition

:14:09.:14:16.

is of the executive? I would respectfully disagree with the

:14:17.:14:20.

honourable lady. If only because the cost of spads has fallen since the

:14:21.:14:24.

general election. And the cost of spads will still remain lower than

:14:25.:14:28.

the total funding for opposition parties. Spending Short Money is

:14:29.:14:36.

unnecessarily opaque. It needs consultation. Will my honourable

:14:37.:14:41.

friend seek representation from senior and numerous members of the

:14:42.:14:47.

opposition, as to whether they think the taxpayer, and indeed their own

:14:48.:14:53.

party, gets value for money for the likes of Seamus Milne? Mr Speaker, I

:14:54.:14:59.

will take submissions from any member of this House, on any side of

:15:00.:15:05.

this House, as to what would involve good value for money. But he is

:15:06.:15:09.

right to question, what is value for money, how much does it cost to run

:15:10.:15:14.

an opposition of this and can we make sure it is done as efficiently

:15:15.:15:18.

as possible with taxpayer's cash? The fact is the number of special

:15:19.:15:25.

advisers has gone up to 96. The Prime Minister has appointed a

:15:26.:15:31.

record 236 peers to the other place. Meanwhile, the government has

:15:32.:15:36.

introduced the lobbying act, is attempting to gag the trade unions

:15:37.:15:39.

and is cutting the Short Money. This shows the government is not

:15:40.:15:46.

interested in cutting the cost of politics, it is absolutely clear,

:15:47.:15:48.

they want to silence any opposition in this country! I am afraid I don't

:15:49.:15:56.

accept the premise of the honourable lady's question. We are, at the same

:15:57.:16:01.

time, proposing to cut the number of MPs in this place. We are very

:16:02.:16:06.

serious about putting the cost of politics and I therefore hope,

:16:07.:16:10.

people will, in that spirit contribute to this request for views

:16:11.:16:15.

in a constructive fashion. Does the Minister agree with me that my

:16:16.:16:20.

constituents at least have the right to see as much transparency as

:16:21.:16:23.

possible in how Short Money is being spent. For all they know it could be

:16:24.:16:28.

being used by honourable members to help them right there but is? I'm

:16:29.:16:33.

sure the opposition, any of the opposition parties would not spend

:16:34.:16:41.

taxpayer's money in such a disrespectful fashion. I'm sure they

:16:42.:16:45.

have nothing to hide and sure they will not be concerned about

:16:46.:16:47.

increased proposals for transparency. Can the Minister

:16:48.:16:55.

confirm this will have to be done by a resolution of the whole House? If

:16:56.:17:00.

so, does he have a date in mind for such a resolution? It is as usual on

:17:01.:17:08.

these things, there will have to be a proposal which has already been

:17:09.:17:14.

laid for policy development grants. And we will come a proposal the shot

:17:15.:17:20.

money, it has to be passed by a resolution in this House. She is

:17:21.:17:25.

absolutely right. Will the Minister confirm during the consultation he

:17:26.:17:29.

will specifically look at protect Ding and supporting the interests of

:17:30.:17:34.

minority parties? He have a huge, important role to play in this

:17:35.:17:38.

Parliament, especially when we have such a divided and weak official

:17:39.:17:43.

opposition? I gave in my initial remarks, an illustration of some of

:17:44.:17:46.

the peculiarities and distribution of Short Money. I illustrated by

:17:47.:17:51.

comparison is received by Ukip and the Greens, but there are other

:17:52.:17:56.

examples and members from smaller opposition parties will be able to

:17:57.:18:00.

say why they feel they are being over remunerated or under. It is

:18:01.:18:06.

sensible to ask the question how it can be improved and whether the

:18:07.:18:09.

basis of allocation can be made that. Cutting the cost of politics,

:18:10.:18:18.

the minister says. Cutting the number of elected MPs whilst I think

:18:19.:18:23.

the other place full of his mates. Cutting support to opposition

:18:24.:18:27.

parties whilst greatly increasing the number of special advisers in

:18:28.:18:31.

government. If he wants to cut the cost of politics, can he tell this

:18:32.:18:34.

House, why the Conservative Party has claimed one point 27 million

:18:35.:18:40.

pounds since 2010 in policy development grants? The allocations

:18:41.:18:50.

of money are based on recommendations from the independent

:18:51.:18:55.

electoral commission, not by proposals from the government. I

:18:56.:18:59.

would also point out to him, we are practising what we preach because in

:19:00.:19:04.

previous years the allocation of policy grounds has been scaled back.

:19:05.:19:07.

We have handed some of the money back, about wanting to cut the cost

:19:08.:19:18.

of politics. With a national debt of ?1.5 trillion, ?24,000 for every

:19:19.:19:22.

man, woman and child in this country and some government departments

:19:23.:19:27.

making heroic efforts to curb back-office functions, like the

:19:28.:19:31.

Ministry of Justice cutting 50% of its back office functions, what

:19:32.:19:35.

possible signal does it send out to the country and the civil servants

:19:36.:19:39.

doing those jobs, to see some political parties are refusing even

:19:40.:19:44.

to engage with sensible reforms of their own funding? I couldn't agree

:19:45.:19:52.

more. The general public will not understand why politicians feel we

:19:53.:19:56.

should be a special case. They will listen to this debate and say, why

:19:57.:20:00.

should they think they are in any way deserving of better treatment

:20:01.:20:03.

than people on benefits and struggling with the budget. Why

:20:04.:20:08.

should they get a special deal? I don't think the general public will

:20:09.:20:12.

understand why in the Cabinet Office, there are 50 press and

:20:13.:20:18.

communication of this. In the Ministry of Justice there are 42

:20:19.:20:21.

external commissioners. Shouldn't the government tighten its own belt

:20:22.:20:28.

and cut its own cloth first? The government is putting its own House

:20:29.:20:31.

in order, we have made dramatic savings over the course of the last

:20:32.:20:36.

Parliament and we continue to make further savings across the whole of

:20:37.:20:40.

government. 19% for unprotect did departments in this Parliament. I

:20:41.:20:47.

would respectfully refused the honourable lady's starting

:20:48.:20:51.

assumption. In the last Parliament I was an adviser to the then shadow

:20:52.:20:55.

secretary of state along with one other part-time member of staff. The

:20:56.:21:01.

government ministered had for special advisers, a series of

:21:02.:21:04.

private offices and hundreds of press officers and policy advisers.

:21:05.:21:08.

Will he accept Short Money is the minimum requirement for opposition

:21:09.:21:13.

in a healthy parliamentary democracy? If it is the minimum

:21:14.:21:20.

requirement, perhaps he can answer why it is so much higher now than it

:21:21.:21:24.

was five years ago in real terms, and why is it so much higher than

:21:25.:21:31.

would be, still higher than it was in 2014, 15. If the costs of running

:21:32.:21:36.

an opposition are consistent and maybe even potentially lower than

:21:37.:21:39.

they used to be, the current levels of Short Money, having risen so far,

:21:40.:21:43.

must be an over budget on something which can be saved. Statement, the

:21:44.:21:47.

Parliamentary undersecretary of state this transport. Minister,

:21:48.:21:53.

Claire Perry. With permission, I would like to make a statement to

:21:54.:21:57.

the House. I am delighted to announce today that from December

:21:58.:22:04.

2018, the Crossrail route will be known as Elizabeth line. It will be

:22:05.:22:07.

marked on the nation's transport maps in royal purple. Today, Her

:22:08.:22:13.

Majesty took part in a naming ceremony at Bond Street station

:22:14.:22:17.

where she met some of those responsible for delivering your's

:22:18.:22:21.

most complicated engineering project, now more than 70% complete

:22:22.:22:28.

and running on budget and on time. Her Majesty has served our country

:22:29.:22:34.

for over 60 years. She has been a symbol of wisdom, of continuity and

:22:35.:22:39.

of stability in an age of unprecedented change. She has long

:22:40.:22:42.

been associated with many aspects of this nation's transport. Our Queen

:22:43.:22:48.

opened the Victoria line service in 1969. The fleet line was renamed the

:22:49.:22:55.

Jubilee line in honour of her first 25 years on the throne in 1979. She

:22:56.:23:01.

is the first reigning Monarch to travel on the London Underground.

:23:02.:23:05.

More recently, Her Majesty has opened the redeveloped Redding and

:23:06.:23:09.

Birmingham new Street stations and Heathrow Airport's new terminal two

:23:10.:23:18.

building. I am told trains are Her Majesty's favourite form of travel

:23:19.:23:22.

and she is a frequent user of the Royal train, but also scheduled

:23:23.:23:27.

train services. I hope Her Majesty will consider an invitation to

:23:28.:23:30.

travel on the first passenger train that will pass through the Elizabeth

:23:31.:23:36.

line's tunnels in December 20 18. Even before that date, this project

:23:37.:23:40.

is breaking new ground, it is not just the largest infrastructure

:23:41.:23:45.

project in Europe, it is the most technically challenging and the most

:23:46.:23:50.

ambitious. In a little over three years, working through night and

:23:51.:23:52.

day, the thousands of members working on the project, have dug 26

:23:53.:23:58.

miles of tunnels under London. And thanks to their work, the line is

:23:59.:24:03.

now over 70% complete. In May of this year, sorry, of lush, Transport

:24:04.:24:10.

for London began operating the first section of what will become the

:24:11.:24:15.

Elizabeth line route to Shenfield. Network Rail has completed most of

:24:16.:24:18.

the work to connect to this line to the existing rail network. In Derby,

:24:19.:24:25.

as I have seen for myself, bombarding is building the first

:24:26.:24:27.

carriage of the first Crossrail train. A British built train for a

:24:28.:24:34.

great British rail line. When the Elizabeth line fully opens in

:24:35.:24:39.

December 2018, it will change dramatically, the way people travel

:24:40.:24:43.

round London and the south-east. It will ring annex 1.5 million people

:24:44.:24:49.

within a 45 minutes commuting distance of London's key business

:24:50.:24:54.

areas. It will increase the total railway capacity by 10% in the South

:24:55.:25:00.

East, adding much-needed capacity to some very crowded lines. It will

:25:01.:25:05.

support our ambition of citywide regeneration and faster and better

:25:06.:25:09.

journey times for passengers. I am pleased to confirm that all 40

:25:10.:25:15.

Elizabeth line stations will be step free, so they are access the ball to

:25:16.:25:20.

all. We are very proud of this investment, but it is not just about

:25:21.:25:24.

the current project work. This project will bring a lasting skills

:25:25.:25:29.

legacy to Britain. And in particular skills legacy that will benefit many

:25:30.:25:36.

thousands of women. As Terry Morgan, the current project chairman has

:25:37.:25:39.

said, Crossrail has always been more than a transport project. It has

:25:40.:25:44.

been a blueprint on how infrastructure should be built in

:25:45.:25:47.

this country in the future. This construction site is a sophisticated

:25:48.:25:53.

place requiring communication skills, the ability to multitask and

:25:54.:25:57.

manage complex project, working teams and win the trust of clients

:25:58.:26:02.

and site neighbours. All skills that make these projects natural projects

:26:03.:26:03.

for women to work. And so as a result of this project,

:26:04.:26:17.

it has broken new ground in a diversity of its workforce. Women

:26:18.:26:21.

make up almost called from those in his graduate programme and these are

:26:22.:26:24.

people who will go on to become the future leaders in this industry. Of

:26:25.:26:29.

the 10,000 people working on cross well, nearly one third are women. So

:26:30.:26:34.

through Crossrail, we are now forging careers that we never full

:26:35.:26:38.

possible fact we were able to celebrate here and in a cross-party

:26:39.:26:43.

reception which we called she is building it. Mr Speaker, Crossrail,

:26:44.:26:50.

soon to be called Elizabeth line. The Olympics, Reading and Birmingham

:26:51.:26:54.

new Street Station is our rid jubilate in the image and economic

:26:55.:26:59.

sob British engineering. -- jubilate in the image. And opening up

:27:00.:27:02.

opportunities for the best and the brightest among women. I know people

:27:03.:27:09.

working on the Crossrail project are already immensely proud of the

:27:10.:27:12.

legacy they are helping to create and I have to believe that their

:27:13.:27:17.

pride can only be enhanced by the announcement today, that this

:27:18.:27:21.

amazing ground-breaking engineering project will for ever be known by

:27:22.:27:26.

the name of our sovereign, Queen Elizabeth. Mr Speaker with

:27:27.:27:28.

permission I commend this statement to the house. Mr Speaker, I'm very

:27:29.:27:40.

grateful to the Minister, on my own behalf and Her Majesty 's opposition

:27:41.:27:45.

I am happy to be able to welcome this announcement today. Crossrail

:27:46.:27:51.

has had cross-party support over its lengthy gestation period, and they

:27:52.:27:55.

will be considerable benefits. The naming of the line as the Elizabeth

:27:56.:27:58.

line is very much welcomed by members of this, we have been very

:27:59.:28:05.

used to the title Crossrail, of itself the renaming is a significant

:28:06.:28:13.

improving on cross London Railways Limited. Elisabeth is a much more

:28:14.:28:21.

fitting title, which will so benefit better transport of millions of

:28:22.:28:25.

passengers from Reading in the West to Shenfield in the east, given the

:28:26.:28:30.

enormous public commitment that has gone into developing the Crossrail

:28:31.:28:35.

brand, will she give us an assurance that the Crossrail brand and livery

:28:36.:28:40.

will continue to be used? Mr Speaker I would like pay tribute, to the

:28:41.:28:47.

last Labour government that took forward the Crossrail plan, that

:28:48.:28:49.

decided that the rail link should go ahead. Alistair Darling who is the

:28:50.:28:58.

Secretary of State, announced, that Labour supported the East- West

:28:59.:29:03.

roadway link, to enable Crossrail to proceed, which was critical in

:29:04.:29:07.

turning the aspiration and ambition of Crossrail to reality. One of the

:29:08.:29:12.

first considerations of the previous Coalition Government was to consider

:29:13.:29:15.

cancelling the Crossrail project altogether so we on this side of the

:29:16.:29:19.

house are delighted not only that the project is back on track so to

:29:20.:29:24.

speak but that the government's conversion in support of Crossrail

:29:25.:29:28.

was embracing, so they have not just given the project its full backing

:29:29.:29:34.

but dedicating the project to Her Majesty and we give our support. We

:29:35.:29:39.

all expect, the Elizabeth line, to change the face of the Southeast so

:29:40.:29:43.

I would like to draw the Minister's focus, it is largely on-time and on

:29:44.:29:48.

budget, can the Minister confirm that Crossrail will indeed open on

:29:49.:29:51.

schedule, will she inform the house of what lessons have been learned

:29:52.:29:56.

from the successes of Crossrail that can be applied to HS two. The

:29:57.:30:00.

Crossrail service will share the great Western name line to Reading

:30:01.:30:05.

but sadly the electrification has slipped and will cost more than

:30:06.:30:09.

first estimated. Will the Minister take this opportunity to confirm to

:30:10.:30:16.

the house, that the rescheduling of electrification, to Reading will be

:30:17.:30:18.

completed in time for the opening of the Elizabeth line? Finally Mr

:30:19.:30:26.

Speaker I'm delighted that after 35 years of planning and abandonment,

:30:27.:30:31.

Crossrail finally broke ground on the 15th of May 2009 at Canary

:30:32.:30:37.

Wharf, the Mayor of London, and the noble Lord Adonis, sunk the first

:30:38.:30:49.

bit. As we come to a conclusion to one of undoubtedly the most

:30:50.:30:53.

magnificent engineering, we can remember the name Crossrail with

:30:54.:30:57.

much affection, and while Crossrail is not dead, I wish the Elizabeth

:30:58.:31:00.

line a great long and successful life. Thank you very much Mr

:31:01.:31:08.

Speaker, it is a delight to share has we often do a cross-party view

:31:09.:31:12.

that is in total agreement break comes to transport infrastructure. I

:31:13.:31:16.

would like to answer some of the questions, Crossrail branding will

:31:17.:31:20.

apply for now, the intention is from December 2018 that Elizabeth line

:31:21.:31:24.

branding will come to pass. Particularly with the trains

:31:25.:31:29.

currently under construction, it is not an expensive item to repaint and

:31:30.:31:33.

rebrand. There are no costs associated with this welcome

:31:34.:31:38.

decision. He asked me about lessons that have been learned, by all

:31:39.:31:41.

associated with Crossrail that can be applied to Network Rail, I would

:31:42.:31:45.

argue that they are lessons that can be applied more broadly because some

:31:46.:31:49.

things that work very well is that the project has stuck to its guns,

:31:50.:31:57.

to its knitting. It has resisted demands for changes, deviations, it

:31:58.:32:00.

has proceeded with an original plan and has liver that plan very

:32:01.:32:05.

effectively. It crucially has led I think, blazed a trail in terms of

:32:06.:32:09.

engagement both with communities who worry affected by the work, it is

:32:10.:32:14.

surprisingly few go and visit a station how little people around

:32:15.:32:17.

that station actually realise that work is going on. That is a tribute

:32:18.:32:22.

to the care and consideration and engagement. And of course, it has

:32:23.:32:29.

enormously important things with the supply chain because the majority of

:32:30.:32:34.

the supply contracts are being let to companies outside of the

:32:35.:32:39.

Southeast and in many cases to SMEs, two very important lessons for the

:32:40.:32:43.

future. He is right to talk about the questions of bringing it on

:32:44.:32:47.

budget and on time, I wanted to emphasise that this is part of the

:32:48.:32:52.

careful planning, his question about the vital linkage, between the

:32:53.:32:55.

Crossrail lines and the great Western main lines to the West, I am

:32:56.:33:00.

happy to confirm that that work is happening on time and again on

:33:01.:33:04.

budget, that will absolutely be in place in order to make sure that

:33:05.:33:09.

this line is running well. It is an enormous priority to make sure that

:33:10.:33:12.

those first trains can run from December 20 18. Mr Speaker I

:33:13.:33:20.

strongly welcome the Minister statement today, can she guarantee

:33:21.:33:25.

that this final 30% of the construction process, we will be

:33:26.:33:28.

trumpeting the use of British Steel wherever possible? I'm happy to

:33:29.:33:36.

confirm that absolutely, 85% of the supply chain providing steel is

:33:37.:33:40.

UK-based and the 57 kilometres of rails that run through the central

:33:41.:33:45.

tunnel are 100% provided by UK steel suppliers, and I'm not sure that the

:33:46.:33:50.

honourable gentleman also welcome the fact that 61% of the firms that

:33:51.:33:54.

have one work associated with him tire project are based outside of

:33:55.:34:02.

London. Can I also thank the Minister for an advanced copy of the

:34:03.:34:05.

statement. Can I welcome and increased opportunity, to support

:34:06.:34:12.

it, women, it is a message that we need more opportunities for them. I

:34:13.:34:17.

would also welcome the aspects of welcoming, it is an important

:34:18.:34:21.

factor. This to Speaker, a change of name can be a very invigorating

:34:22.:34:25.

thing, we found in Scotland that a change in the name of the Scottish

:34:26.:34:28.

pig exited to the Scottish Government gave a sense of purpose,

:34:29.:34:34.

-- the Scottish executive to the Scottish Government. The royal theme

:34:35.:34:40.

I think is continued in Scotland by the Queensferry Crossing, a name

:34:41.:34:44.

change that was done by public vote and I wonder if the Minister could

:34:45.:34:48.

tell us how the name, the mechanism that we got two for renaming

:34:49.:34:52.

Crossrail today because the public certainly embrace that with some

:34:53.:35:00.

figure. The Minister also describes that as a great British rail line,

:35:01.:35:05.

can she guarantee that all of the ticket machines on the new Elizabeth

:35:06.:35:09.

line will be able to accept Scottish notes so that we can actually do

:35:10.:35:15.

that. Mr Speaker the Scottish Government according to figures

:35:16.:35:18.

announced just last weekend is investing twice as much per person

:35:19.:35:22.

in transport as in England and has spent more per head in improving

:35:23.:35:26.

infrastructure than all of the other nations in the UK since the SNP came

:35:27.:35:31.

to power in 2007. I'm glad to see some ambition coming for, can we see

:35:32.:35:36.

some more of it, to make sure that the people of the nations of the UK

:35:37.:35:43.

are better connected? I thank the ruble gentleman for a very important

:35:44.:35:46.

list of questions, he is right to focus as we are doing about the

:35:47.:35:49.

diverse city opportunities that have opened up. Too often I think that

:35:50.:35:58.

people think of engineering skills, involving joining a club, it is not,

:35:59.:36:02.

it is a high-tech world where you will spend more time with a laptop

:36:03.:36:07.

than a spanner. It is thanks to the record investment entrance port

:36:08.:36:11.

infrastructure going forward. It is one where we would like to attract

:36:12.:36:15.

more women. There are subtle changes, the so-called man cage, has

:36:16.:36:23.

been renamed at the suggestion of a very feisty woman, as a people

:36:24.:36:33.

basket. The honourable gentleman has asked me about it, I'm sure, that if

:36:34.:36:41.

we put it to the British people in a referendum, if they have not got

:36:42.:36:44.

referendum fatigue, that this decision will be overwhelmingly

:36:45.:36:49.

supported. Of course, the Queen did approve the decision. I think the

:36:50.:36:53.

genesis of this is that she is our longest serving monarch, she has

:36:54.:36:57.

been on the throne for 64 years and it is a very fitting tribute that

:36:58.:37:00.

this name change will coincide with the length of that rain. The

:37:01.:37:05.

honourable gentleman asked me about Scottish pound notes, based on my

:37:06.:37:08.

experience with Scottish cabbies, many people do not believe that it

:37:09.:37:12.

is legal tender south of the border I had to say but I will look into

:37:13.:37:17.

it, what I would like is for there to be a revolution in ticket vending

:37:18.:37:24.

machine so that we can use mobile and smart. He raised the question

:37:25.:37:27.

about the importance of infrastructure north of the border,

:37:28.:37:31.

I'm sure like me that he is the light that the West Coast mainline,

:37:32.:37:36.

the vital freight route, has been opened after the devastation at

:37:37.:37:41.

lambing to an viaduct two weeks earlier. I went to see it in the

:37:42.:37:44.

snow with the transport minister from north of the border, it was a

:37:45.:37:48.

difficult site and I think we would all like to pay tribute to the

:37:49.:37:51.

Orange army that delivered that result. I welcome this announcement,

:37:52.:38:00.

and the Minister rightly praises Crossrail the Elizabeth line. De she

:38:01.:38:04.

think that this is a suitable model for rail North, and indeed, the new

:38:05.:38:10.

Northern transport that has just been set up. So that there can be

:38:11.:38:16.

investment in new lines right across the north of England to make the

:38:17.:38:23.

northern Powerhouse a reality. I thank the honourable lady for her

:38:24.:38:28.

support, I think she's right to focus on the parallels here, clearly

:38:29.:38:33.

transport money is best spent when it is to satisfy local demand and

:38:34.:38:37.

drive local economic growth and as this government has done which I'm

:38:38.:38:41.

sure she welcomes, we have setup transport for the north on a

:38:42.:38:44.

stand-alone basis. We have funded it and we have asked that devolved

:38:45.:38:48.

authority to really work on the plans and proposals to drive forward

:38:49.:38:52.

infrastructure and investment. The honourable gentleman, in his opening

:38:53.:38:57.

comments, has referenced Lauderdale is, who I would like to pay tribute

:38:58.:39:08.

to, -- Lord Adonis. Often in the face of other investments. He is now

:39:09.:39:12.

facing up infrastructure commission, which is tasked with looking at, how

:39:13.:39:19.

we best spend, the ongoing investment in infrastructure, for

:39:20.:39:27.

the benefit of the British economy. Crossrail is a complex project,

:39:28.:39:29.

especially wet interchanges with other lines, with an underground, of

:39:30.:39:42.

course HS two. Will the Minister look at that interchange where every

:39:43.:39:45.

company is doing their own thing, it is very poor. Perhaps she might like

:39:46.:39:52.

to get Lord Adonis, if he does what she is talking about.

:39:53.:39:57.

He is right to point out the complexities, some of these tunnels

:39:58.:40:04.

have been tunnelled 30 centimetres away from existing infrastructure

:40:05.:40:07.

under the streets of London. He is right to point out the complexities

:40:08.:40:13.

of these interchanges. But TEFL, the government and Network Rail working

:40:14.:40:20.

closer with the Park Royal development Corporation, devolved

:40:21.:40:22.

authority to make sure they understand their aspirations for the

:40:23.:40:29.

land on old oak common. It is a balancing act and difficult to get

:40:30.:40:33.

it right for the future, but we will continue to invest on this vital

:40:34.:40:39.

rail infrastructure and make it work for the British economy and Braille

:40:40.:40:42.

passion is across the UK. I agree with what the rail Minister said

:40:43.:40:49.

about Her Majesty and also our brilliant railway staff. As a former

:40:50.:40:55.

Network Rail stuff myself, I work with some fantastic women engineers.

:40:56.:40:59.

Can I offer some constructive criticism? Her statement made more

:41:00.:41:05.

references to Liverpool Street and Liverpool itself. Can I ask the

:41:06.:41:11.

minister now Crossrail is moving towards completion, can she turned

:41:12.:41:15.

her attention is northwards and when will she meet with the delegation

:41:16.:41:18.

from Merseyside to discuss rail services there? The only mention of

:41:19.:41:24.

Liverpool Street is because Crossrail doesn't go north at the

:41:25.:41:29.

moment. The honourable lady, I have great respect for. She will know

:41:30.:41:33.

from her own constituency we have let trick trains running for the

:41:34.:41:36.

first time ever between Manchester and Liverpool. Tangible evidence the

:41:37.:41:41.

government is delivering both on the infrastructure promises in the North

:41:42.:41:45.

but also on rolling stock. She, like me, this should have been phased out

:41:46.:41:51.

a long time ago because it is not fit for purpose to move people

:41:52.:41:55.

around what is a vibrant and growing part of the country, the North. It

:41:56.:42:01.

is this government taking those investment decisions and my door is

:42:02.:42:05.

always open for any delegate who would like to talk on how rail can

:42:06.:42:11.

transform their local economy. Can I add my congratulations to the whole

:42:12.:42:15.

Crossrail team this remarkable feat of engineering and the benefits it

:42:16.:42:18.

will bring to my constituents in Ilford. Paying tribute to the

:42:19.:42:23.

honourable member for Ilford South, chair of the all-party Crossrail

:42:24.:42:27.

route, has uttered strongly for residents in Ilford in terms of

:42:28.:42:31.

longer term benefits. -- batted. I will be joining residents in

:42:32.:42:38.

Aldeburgh hatch to clean for the Queen. So on behalf of my

:42:39.:42:41.

constituents, can I commend those who have come up with this fitting

:42:42.:42:46.

tribute to our longest reigning Monarch for more than 60 years of

:42:47.:42:51.

dedicated public service. I rang him for highlighting the clean for a

:42:52.:42:54.

queen which will have us all putting on rubber gloves in the next few

:42:55.:43:00.

months. He raises an important point, when this House is at its

:43:01.:43:04.

best is when we come together to invest in major pieces of

:43:05.:43:07.

infrastructure we know will transform the lives of those we know

:43:08.:43:12.

it directly benefits, but those who are working for that construction

:43:13.:43:18.

project and supplying into it. An outbreak of cross-party consensus is

:43:19.:43:26.

what we need. We have one with HS2, which came out of committee stage

:43:27.:43:30.

yesterday. That committee has been a labour of love, I think. I am not

:43:31.:43:37.

going to comment on that. But one where spades will be in the ground

:43:38.:43:41.

from 2017 and all these people who have built up the skills of these

:43:42.:43:45.

hundreds of men and women, we now lead the world in soft ground

:43:46.:43:49.

tunnelling. How useful it would be with the Thames Tideway Tunnel and

:43:50.:43:59.

also HS2 work coming on. Can we apply some of the efficiency the

:44:00.:44:02.

minister has spoken about with regards to the Crossrail project, to

:44:03.:44:08.

south-eastern rail, which has been providing an appalling service? Will

:44:09.:44:11.

she agree to meet with the delegation of MPs to discuss how we

:44:12.:44:16.

might be able to do this? He is a long campaign for improved rail

:44:17.:44:21.

services, I hope he received a letter from me a few weeks ago

:44:22.:44:25.

saying I hope to make a decision shortly on the longer went at

:44:26.:44:30.

capacity increases. I know crowding are no strangers something he is

:44:31.:44:34.

concerned about. I hope to have good news on that shortly, but he knows

:44:35.:44:40.

my doors are always open. I am sure if the honourable gentleman received

:44:41.:44:44.

her letter, his happiness will be as unalloyed as hers obviously is

:44:45.:44:48.

today. We are extremely grateful to her.

:44:49.:44:54.

Yes, point of order. Mr Alex Cunningham. They're pleased to be

:44:55.:45:00.

confusion in the government over which department is responsible for

:45:01.:45:04.

making an application to be used Solidarity fund for assistance for

:45:05.:45:07.

the flood hit communities across the North of England. I have found out

:45:08.:45:14.

in December 20 15th, they said it was a DC LG issue. Then it was

:45:15.:45:20.

supposed to be a death threat issue. The deaf secretary said she hadn't

:45:21.:45:25.

ruled out making an application. A week later a civil servant wrote to

:45:26.:45:31.

me saying it was a DC LG matter. Whoever is responsible, the deadline

:45:32.:45:33.

for an application to be made is just days away. The government's

:45:34.:45:39.

confusion and subsequent failure to act will deny communities

:45:40.:45:42.

potentially hundreds of millions of pounds in much-needed help. Could

:45:43.:45:47.

you encourage the government to sort this out, get the minister here and

:45:48.:45:50.

make a statement to be held accountable? Certainly it would help

:45:51.:45:56.

if there were clarity. The honourable gentleman knows it is not

:45:57.:45:59.

a matter for the chair to adjudicate as between what one department might

:46:00.:46:06.

say and what might you said by another. But it is very important

:46:07.:46:11.

members should know which department is responsible and from whom they

:46:12.:46:17.

can expect an authoritative answer. My request therefore to the Treasury

:46:18.:46:21.

bench with be to ensure this matter is clarified, authoritative leak,

:46:22.:46:29.

sooner rather than later. Pursuant to that objective, it might help if

:46:30.:46:32.

the honourable gentleman is in his place for the business question

:46:33.:46:36.

tomorrow in order that he can himself probe the leader of the

:46:37.:46:42.

House about it. Point of order, Mr Gavin Robinson. It was devastating

:46:43.:46:48.

news last week for the Northern Ireland economy to find 1080 jobs

:46:49.:46:56.

lost in bombard EA and in Derby in mainland GB as well. Is it in order

:46:57.:47:03.

to enquire of you whether there have been approaches made by government

:47:04.:47:07.

departments to come to this House, not only to raise a consequence of

:47:08.:47:11.

such a decision but seek assurance that support is there for innovation

:47:12.:47:18.

and aviation in our society? I have received no approach thus far. As

:47:19.:47:24.

far as I am aware. From any member of the government asking to make a

:47:25.:47:27.

statement on the matter. The honourable gentleman can news the

:47:28.:47:32.

order paper in order to pursue his object. Moreover, seized of the

:47:33.:47:41.

importance as he seeded, as the urgency of the matter, he wishes to

:47:42.:47:45.

debate it on the floor of the chamber, he will be aware of the

:47:46.:47:49.

opportunities provided by adjournment debates. I have a hunch

:47:50.:47:54.

he will be seeking to take advantage of those opportunities. Point of

:47:55.:48:00.

order, the shadow leader of the House, Mr Chris Bryant. It is a two

:48:01.:48:05.

headed point of order. It refers to exchanges we had earlier with the

:48:06.:48:10.

Minister for the and is in regards to Short Money. Can you confirm it

:48:11.:48:16.

is true the accounting officer in the Short Money is the clerk of the

:48:17.:48:19.

House, not the permanent Secretary of the Cabinet Office? Has the clerk

:48:20.:48:26.

of the House been consulted in relation to Short Money? This is

:48:27.:48:31.

still the first head... Why is it the vote office was not provided,

:48:32.:48:36.

still hasn't been provided with copies of the consultation when it

:48:37.:48:40.

pertains directly to the House of Commons? And the second point of

:48:41.:48:45.

order is really to say, can you confirm that is a process for

:48:46.:48:48.

ministers correcting the record when they have inadvertently made a

:48:49.:48:54.

mistake? The Cabinet Office minister made about 18 factual errors. But he

:48:55.:48:58.

said there was no cut planned. This is despite the fact his actual

:48:59.:49:05.

document says, by contrast, a 19% reduction will take Short Money

:49:06.:49:09.

back. I don't know what the difference is between a reduction

:49:10.:49:13.

and the cut. I'm sure there is a means of correcting the record. I

:49:14.:49:17.

wonder if we can make a special exemption in the terms of the number

:49:18.:49:21.

of special advisers for the Minister, he is clearly making so

:49:22.:49:26.

many mistakes, it might have been corrected by proper research. Let me

:49:27.:49:32.

answer his two enquiries. First, I can indeed con firm in respect of

:49:33.:49:37.

the Short Money, the accounting officer is the clerk of the House.

:49:38.:49:45.

Whether the clerk has been consulted as the honourable gentleman

:49:46.:49:50.

enquires, I am not at all sure the clerk is well aware, as I am well

:49:51.:49:59.

aware, of the consideration of policy on this matter. Moreover, I

:50:00.:50:04.

have seen a copy of the consultation document. But beyond that, I

:50:05.:50:14.

wouldn't go. Secondly, there is indeed any number of opportunities

:50:15.:50:19.

for a minister, if he believes, or she believes, the record needs to be

:50:20.:50:25.

corrected as a result of an inadvertent misstatement, to be so

:50:26.:50:29.

corrected. Knowing the honourable gentleman as I do, I feel sure he

:50:30.:50:34.

will be looking to see the development of events. And if he is

:50:35.:50:40.

dissatisfied, I have a hunch his dissatisfaction will percolate

:50:41.:50:43.

through his contribution at Isner 's questions tomorrow. Thursday, I am

:50:44.:50:53.

getting ahead of myself. We can just about weight. It will be difficult

:50:54.:50:57.

but we can just about weight for his contribution at this must question

:50:58.:51:01.

on Thursday. Not to say the matter will be raised before them, but it

:51:02.:51:06.

can be on Thursday. I hope that is helpful for an. If there are no

:51:07.:51:09.

further points of order, we come to the ten minute rule motion. Mr Gera

:51:10.:51:19.

rank Davis. I beg to move that leave be given to bring in a bill to make

:51:20.:51:23.

provision about urban air quality targets, to require vehicle

:51:24.:51:27.

emissions targets and testing to reflect on road driving conditions,

:51:28.:51:33.

to provide powers the local authorities to establish lobe diesel

:51:34.:51:37.

emission zones and pedestrian only areas, to restrict the use of roads

:51:38.:51:41.

and urban centres by the use of diesels and make a vision about the

:51:42.:51:45.

promotion and development of electric tram systems, buses and

:51:46.:51:52.

taxis powered by liquid petroleum gas in urban centres as on the order

:51:53.:52:00.

paper. Mr Deputy Speaker, the whole hand of diesel fumes is prematurely

:52:01.:52:06.

killing some thousand people a week in the UK. This air quality bill is

:52:07.:52:11.

designed to put the death by diesel academically face into reverse, save

:52:12.:52:16.

thousands of lives and billions of pounds. The Royal College of

:52:17.:52:22.

physicians and the Royal College of paediatrics and Child health, have

:52:23.:52:28.

published a paper, joint report that shows the killing by diesel is on an

:52:29.:52:33.

industrial scale. 40,000 premature deaths each year. This bill is

:52:34.:52:39.

supported by them, this bill is supported by the British Lung

:52:40.:52:42.

foundation, the British Heart Foundation. Because as we know, and

:52:43.:52:49.

it is becoming aware to all others, air pollution is killing us through

:52:50.:52:53.

lung cancer, diseases like bronchitis, asthma, two strokes and

:52:54.:52:58.

heart attacks, heart disease. Linked to diabetes, obesity and dementia.

:52:59.:53:06.

It is a public health disaster. And losing 6 million working days a

:53:07.:53:10.

year, it is costing our economy 20 billion pounds a year, costing the

:53:11.:53:16.

European economy 240 billion euros a year and killing 380,000 people.

:53:17.:53:25.

Diesel, particulars are absorbed to harm and heard the foetus of

:53:26.:53:30.

pregnant women. It is undermining and affecting low birth rate, organ

:53:31.:53:35.

damage, premature birth and stillbirth. Children in urban areas

:53:36.:53:44.

and polluted areas suffer from lung capacity, children's lung capacity

:53:45.:53:48.

is 10% lower. They suffer lower lung function in later life. Diesel

:53:49.:54:02.

particular 's cause asthma, and they exacerbate asthma. Coughing, asthma

:54:03.:54:07.

attacks, wheezing, worst concentration and memory and worse

:54:08.:54:10.

physical and mental development. They nearer the ground and they

:54:11.:54:14.

more. The first duty of parents is to protect their children. They are

:54:15.:54:19.

unable to protect their children from this poisonous torching they

:54:20.:54:27.

face. In 1952, of course 12,000 people died in the London smog. Yet

:54:28.:54:32.

only today, similar numbers are dying every year due to be

:54:33.:54:39.

invisible, industrial scale fumes being emitted by diesel powered

:54:40.:54:43.

vehicles. Instead of coal fires, the new killer is diesel. Traffic has

:54:44.:54:51.

grown in volume, tenfold in the last 60 years. Much has been done to stop

:54:52.:54:57.

carbon monoxide, sulphur and that, despite the protestations of the

:54:58.:55:00.

motor manufacturers who said it was impossible. Now we face a situation

:55:01.:55:05.

when nitrogen dirk side and particulates of a new catastrophic

:55:06.:55:12.

threat to human life and life expectancy and that threat has grown

:55:13.:55:17.

exponentially. After all, in the 1980s, diesel cars were only 10% of

:55:18.:55:26.

new cars. By 2000 they were 14%. But between then and now, 14% has now

:55:27.:55:32.

become 50% of new cars pumping out diesel particulates. Nitrogen

:55:33.:55:40.

dioxide is. The government wanted and want to reduce carbon outside

:55:41.:55:46.

and that is what the motor Manufacturers took as a pretext to

:55:47.:55:49.

encourage diesel instead of trams or hydrogen or basically green

:55:50.:55:54.

transport. Similar to the fact after the Second World War, the motor and

:55:55.:56:00.

oil manufacturers took the trams out of our city centres for their own

:56:01.:56:02.

commercial The diesel contribution to climate

:56:03.:56:14.

change is no better and arguably worse than petrol and we are

:56:15.:56:19.

passively smoking diesel emissions, they cost 40,000 jobs. Taxation

:56:20.:56:29.

levels between diesel and petrol are on a par, they don't reflect the

:56:30.:56:33.

cost, in terms of the environment, in terms of health. And laboratory

:56:34.:56:38.

testing across the EU is systematically understating the

:56:39.:56:43.

amount of emissions in the air that we breathe so that in terms of

:56:44.:56:48.

carbon monoxide, emissions are two thirds higher than actually in the

:56:49.:56:54.

case of much can die like, it is for five times higher. Things made a lot

:56:55.:57:03.

by the revelation that bolts Bagan -- VW were caught cheating, and the

:57:04.:57:08.

difference when they had the device on, is twentyfold. It is 20 times

:57:09.:57:16.

the emissions belching into the lungs. When they are out on the road

:57:17.:57:19.

than when they are inside the laboratory. Clearly this situation,

:57:20.:57:25.

where this is sorted out. Mr Deputy Speaker, we have had the growth of

:57:26.:57:32.

diesel pollution and the mushrooming of costs to public health. We have

:57:33.:57:39.

had the disaster of industry saying they will self regulate but doing

:57:40.:57:45.

the opposite. Our duty is to protect our Georgian, our nation, our first

:57:46.:57:49.

duty as a government is to protect the people. This air quality bill,

:57:50.:57:54.

firstly ensures that vehicle emissions testing in 2017, reflects

:57:55.:58:03.

on road driving conditions. Such as accelerating, the Seller rating,

:58:04.:58:07.

standing stationary. It is devices such as the one using bolts -- using

:58:08.:58:17.

Wolkswagen. It restricts diesel vehicles, that failed the emission

:58:18.:58:22.

standards, into the most old and polluting diesel cars. Some of which

:58:23.:58:27.

are worse than lorries incidentally in terms of impact. It encourages

:58:28.:58:31.

the development of green transport including tram systems including the

:58:32.:58:37.

one I pioneered in Croydon. It encourages, hydrogen powered or

:58:38.:58:41.

electric powered buses and taxis, and in turn encourages walking and

:58:42.:58:46.

cycling because they will be Tina Herrera and less congestion. We also

:58:47.:58:50.

in my view need pollution warnings as we do with flood warnings.

:58:51.:58:58.

Because the Met office have been told to shut up since last Sunday

:58:59.:59:03.

gave a pollution warning in April 2014, the public have a right to

:59:04.:59:09.

know, so that Rose can be closed with excessive pollution. I hope

:59:10.:59:13.

that the house will support extra measures and I hope that the

:59:14.:59:18.

Chancellor, will support the opportunity to support green

:59:19.:59:21.

transport and to ensure that the polluter pays principle is carried

:59:22.:59:26.

through to taxation so that signals to consumers who have bought diesel

:59:27.:59:31.

cars, will see a transmitted into behaviour as they were in previous

:59:32.:59:36.

signals. We need the right signals, so that we do satisfy our

:59:37.:59:40.

fundamental ambition, fundamental duty to protect the lives of our

:59:41.:59:44.

citizens, to ensure that the air that we breathe in our cities is

:59:45.:59:48.

clean, and a life that we lead is sustainable. The question is, does

:59:49.:59:56.

the honourable member have leave to bring in the bill? Those happy say

:59:57.:00:09.

I. The eyes have it. Who will bring in the bill? Doctor Sarah Wollaston,

:00:10.:00:16.

Andrew Brin, Stuart Donlan, John McNally, Jonathan Edwards, Chris

:00:17.:00:21.

Stevens, Rob Marys, Albert Owen, Margaret Ritchie, Gareth Thomas, and

:00:22.:00:26.

myself. Air quality diesel emissions in

:00:27.:01:05.

urban centres bill. Second reading what day? Friday the 4th of March Mr

:01:06.:01:09.

Deputy Speaker. Friday the 4th of March. Programme motion to be moved.

:01:10.:01:20.

The question is as on the order paper, as many of that opinion, say

:01:21.:01:30.

Aye. Aye extra measure Mark we will now read the orders of the day.

:01:31.:01:38.

Consideration of Lords amendments. I must draw the house 's attendance,

:01:39.:01:44.

that financial provisions, are in certain amendments. I will cause an

:01:45.:01:51.

appropriate amendment to be made in the journal. This is Lords amendment

:01:52.:01:57.

one, for which it would be convenient to take amendments eight

:01:58.:02:01.

and nine. I call the Minister to move to disagree with Lords

:02:02.:02:05.

amendment one. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that we

:02:06.:02:11.

disagree with the Lords amendment one. This bill is a vital part of

:02:12.:02:15.

the government's reports that are moving this country to a high wage,

:02:16.:02:20.

low tax low welfare economy. It is fundamental to our commitment to end

:02:21.:02:25.

child poverty and improve children's life chances to insure that work

:02:26.:02:28.

always pays more than life on benefit and that support is focused

:02:29.:02:33.

on the most vulnerable. As is right and proper, its provisions have been

:02:34.:02:37.

carefully scrutinised by both houses, both this house and the

:02:38.:02:39.

other place. Where appropriate the

:02:40.:02:51.

government has made amendments to remove unintended consequences and

:02:52.:02:53.

has made some important commitments on supported housing and the social

:02:54.:02:55.

rents measure, on kinship parents and social adoption. And on guardian

:02:56.:02:58.

's allowance and carers allowance in relation to the benefit cap. The

:02:59.:03:02.

government remains firmly committed to the aims of the bill, and for

:03:03.:03:09.

that reason, we wish to resist the non-government amendments. Before I

:03:10.:03:14.

address in each detail, in detail each area, allow me to set out the

:03:15.:03:18.

key principles underpinning how disagreements with the Lords. On the

:03:19.:03:25.

addition of the child poverty, our view is that this is unnecessary as

:03:26.:03:29.

we have already committed to publishing statistics on children in

:03:30.:03:32.

low income families to the households below average income, it

:03:33.:03:39.

also reintroduces a failed approach to tackling child poverty, focused

:03:40.:03:42.

on tagging the symptoms rather than the root causes of child poverty. It

:03:43.:03:47.

rise perverse behaviour to let people just above the poverty line

:03:48.:03:51.

rather than on a life chances strategy that could transform

:03:52.:03:57.

children's lives, I will give way. Does she accept that income has a

:03:58.:04:04.

huge impact on life chances? I say to the right on the wall gentleman

:04:05.:04:07.

that income is one of many factors that has an impact on life chances

:04:08.:04:12.

and on property. Which is why this government is very much focused on

:04:13.:04:16.

tackling the root causes of child poverty and I will during the course

:04:17.:04:23.

of this debate talk about this further. I know that the party

:04:24.:04:28.

opposite disagree with this, but on the change to the work-related

:04:29.:04:32.

activity component, and the limited capacity for the work element in

:04:33.:04:36.

universal credit, I want to stress that this government is fully

:04:37.:04:40.

focused on people who can, just bear with me for a second, who can get

:04:41.:04:45.

into work and we want to end a broken system which is patentee

:04:46.:04:49.

failing those who should be helping and ensure that a good proportion of

:04:50.:04:54.

those savings are recycled into a practical support, long-term

:04:55.:04:57.

practical support that will have a transformation effect on people's

:04:58.:05:03.

lives. I will give way. She mentions the fact that income is a factor in

:05:04.:05:09.

poverty but her own government report, and I quote from these

:05:10.:05:13.

edited summary, says the main factor is the lack of sufficient income

:05:14.:05:19.

from parental employment, it is not just a factor. It is fundamental.

:05:20.:05:24.

What I would say to the honourable gentleman and to all members of this

:05:25.:05:29.

house, when it comes to poverty, work itself remains the best route

:05:30.:05:33.

out of poverty. Importantly, moving into work and supporting, once

:05:34.:05:38.

people are in work, moving people into work and helping their income

:05:39.:05:42.

growth is exactly our focus. It really is. What would she say to

:05:43.:05:49.

those constituents of mine who may have limited abilities, would she

:05:50.:05:54.

say it is better to try and help and support them into some form of

:05:55.:05:58.

employment albeit reduced hours, or to write them off and say that they

:05:59.:06:03.

cannot contribute to society at all? My honourable friend is absolutely

:06:04.:06:07.

right, it is the fundamental difference between how party in

:06:08.:06:11.

government and the party opposite. We are committed to supporting

:06:12.:06:14.

people to get into work and to help them with sustained employment in

:06:15.:06:18.

particular rather than consigning people to a life of dependency and

:06:19.:06:23.

benefits which has a counter-productive consequence. I

:06:24.:06:25.

will give way to the honourable lady. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker

:06:26.:06:30.

and I thank the Minister for giving way but she is wrong because the new

:06:31.:06:35.

Deal, got more people into new work than ever before this country. And

:06:36.:06:39.

this government is taking money out of the pockets of working families,

:06:40.:06:44.

so how can she say that she wants working people to feel the benefit

:06:45.:06:47.

when universal credit will make them poorer. I would say to the

:06:48.:06:52.

honourable lady that she is wrong in many ways, for a start this

:06:53.:06:56.

government has supported more people to get back into work than ever

:06:57.:07:01.

before. It is our welfare reforms that are helping through universal

:07:02.:07:07.

credit, but also giving dedicated support to individuals to help them

:07:08.:07:10.

not just getting to work but remain in work as well. I will come back to

:07:11.:07:15.

him shortly but I would like to make a bit of progress. I was Mr Deputy

:07:16.:07:20.

Speaker just briefly before I come on to discuss the child poverty

:07:21.:07:24.

income measures, just touching on the essay points in particular and I

:07:25.:07:27.

will come back to some of the detailed questions. When the party

:07:28.:07:33.

opposite designed the work activity component it was intended to act as

:07:34.:07:38.

an incentive for people to take part in work-related activity and move on

:07:39.:07:42.

to work quicker, and just one in a hundred work activity group

:07:43.:07:46.

claimants, leading benefits each month, it is not working. It is

:07:47.:07:49.

crucial to make sure that we have the right support in place, to help

:07:50.:07:54.

move people closer to the labour market. There is as we all know a

:07:55.:07:57.

large body of evidence showing that work is generally good for physical

:07:58.:08:02.

and mental well-being as well as a growing awareness that long-term

:08:03.:08:06.

worklessness, is hard on physical and mental health. Indeed, some of

:08:07.:08:12.

the major charities say that work can be right for some people after a

:08:13.:08:17.

diagnosis and improved employment support is crucial to helping people

:08:18.:08:20.

with health conditions and disability move into work and get

:08:21.:08:25.

closer to the labour market. As we speak, the government is working on

:08:26.:08:28.

a white Paper this year, that will set out plans to improve support

:08:29.:08:32.

with people in such conditions, including the role of employers and

:08:33.:08:36.

improved integration between health and employment, and I will come on

:08:37.:08:40.

to expand on this later on. But I will, just bear with me. I will

:08:41.:08:47.

begin by dressing amendment number one in detail. Which is firstly,

:08:48.:08:53.

this amendment is wholly unnecessary, as low income

:08:54.:08:56.

statistics, as I briefly summarised already are already published, this

:08:57.:09:01.

information is available for all to see and will continue to be so. The

:09:02.:09:06.

party opposite, they will get their chance to speak shortly and I think

:09:07.:09:10.

they should give me the courtesy to make my point. Ministers in both

:09:11.:09:13.

houses have committed to the continued publication of information

:09:14.:09:18.

contained in I hope it is getting honourable members that we have more

:09:19.:09:23.

than adequate safeguards, already in place to secure the continued

:09:24.:09:26.

publication of this note income data. I will give way. -- low income

:09:27.:09:33.

data. Li I thank the Minister for giving way, McMillan Cancer support

:09:34.:09:37.

says that people may be at risk of losing their homes if the cuts go

:09:38.:09:40.

ahead. Does the Minister have anything to say to McMillan. What I

:09:41.:09:45.

will say is that McMillan have also said that many people who are

:09:46.:09:49.

working when they are diagnosed with cancer, would prefer to remain in

:09:50.:09:53.

real work will return to their job during and after treatment.

:09:54.:10:01.

interests if the honourable gentleman would like to intervene,

:10:02.:10:06.

he is welcome to get up at the dispatch box, but he should let me

:10:07.:10:11.

finish my points before he starts chuntering. It is essential people

:10:12.:10:15.

suffering with cancer get the right support. When people are in the

:10:16.:10:25.

support group of the ESA support group and they are unable to work,

:10:26.:10:32.

then they remain on the ESA and are supported. Is this for amendment

:10:33.:10:38.

number one? I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, but could

:10:39.:10:43.

she confirm Maka mil and are opposed to the reduction by ?30 a week the

:10:44.:10:50.

members of the ESA group. They are not in favour of it, they are

:10:51.:10:56.

opposed to it. Jack Miller and, alongside the government have

:10:57.:10:59.

recognised that those who are on the support group will rightly, not be

:11:00.:11:03.

affected and will be supported because they are in the support

:11:04.:11:06.

group because they are ill. I am going to come back, I am speaking

:11:07.:11:14.

about amendment number one. Let her make some progress. I am going to

:11:15.:11:21.

make some progress on amendment number one. Turning secondly as to

:11:22.:11:24.

why this approach has failed. Measures are flawed because they

:11:25.:11:29.

don't drive to transform children's lives. This government is

:11:30.:11:36.

undertaking crucial reforms to improve children's life chances, as

:11:37.:11:41.

introducing the National living wage. These policies will support

:11:42.:11:45.

those hard-working families who need the support the most. Debt under

:11:46.:11:50.

Labour's failed approach, their introduction would have supposedly

:11:51.:11:56.

led to an increase in child poverty. This failed approach incentivises

:11:57.:12:00.

the wrong actions. It led the previous Labour governments to

:12:01.:12:05.

tackle the symptoms of property through expensive income transfer,

:12:06.:12:11.

spending over 300 billion pounds on working, age and welfare tax credits

:12:12.:12:17.

between 2003, 2004, 2008 and 2009 with little return. It didn't make

:12:18.:12:22.

long-term differences to children's prospects. I will give way shortly.

:12:23.:12:27.

The number of children in relative poverty remained broadly unchanged.

:12:28.:12:34.

There are fundamental weaknesses in that system which this government is

:12:35.:12:38.

seeking to put right through our new life chances measures. I will give

:12:39.:12:43.

way. She would lapse want me to remind her that child poverty fell

:12:44.:12:48.

by a million under the last Labour government and that is something we

:12:49.:12:55.

should be rightly proud of. Her own advisers have advised against

:12:56.:12:59.

removing the child poverty indicators. So, why is she so

:13:00.:13:04.

headstrong at ignoring the advice, not just of the other place but of

:13:05.:13:08.

her own commission, who have said this is wrong. We have discussed

:13:09.:13:19.

this in committee, but I will reiterate the point. We are focused

:13:20.:13:27.

on tackling the root causes of poverty and ultimately, at the end

:13:28.:13:31.

of the day and as the Prime Minister said in his recent life chances

:13:32.:13:34.

speeches, we are here to make sure we can tackle these long-term. It is

:13:35.:13:40.

tackling the root causes of poverty. The economy cannot be secure if we

:13:41.:13:44.

spent Ilion 's pounds picking up the pieces of social failure. Economic

:13:45.:13:49.

and social reform are not two separate agendas. They are connected

:13:50.:13:55.

to one another and therefore it is imperative that we focus resources

:13:56.:13:59.

on how we transfer lives, through tackling the root causes. I would

:14:00.:14:07.

encourage the House to take the right action to make the biggest

:14:08.:14:11.

difference to children's life chances. That is why the government

:14:12.:14:17.

are seeking to introduce the life chances in the bill today. It is

:14:18.:14:21.

combined with the non-statutory measures in the life chances

:14:22.:14:24.

strategy, including family breakdown, problem, debt drug and

:14:25.:14:33.

alcohol dependency will drive the right action to transform lives. I

:14:34.:14:37.

will take the intervention over there. I am grateful and surprised

:14:38.:14:44.

the Minister has given way. I am sure the Prime Minister is delighted

:14:45.:14:50.

to see her so back on message today, as she hasn't been in the last few

:14:51.:14:55.

days. How can she go against the advice of her own government's

:14:56.:14:59.

commission when they say it is not credible to try to improve the life

:15:00.:15:02.

chances of the poor without acknowledging the most obvious

:15:03.:15:06.

symptom of uppity, lack of money. When is she going to listen? We are

:15:07.:15:14.

still continuing to publish low income data on households below

:15:15.:15:17.

average income. This information is still being published. It may not be

:15:18.:15:22.

the information he wants to know about, but we are publishing this

:15:23.:15:27.

alongside doing something previous Labour governments have failed to

:15:28.:15:30.

do, which is transforming lives, addressing the root causes of

:15:31.:15:35.

poverty and making sure we absolutely tackle these causes that

:15:36.:15:39.

have led to child poverty in the long run. We have all heard the

:15:40.:15:45.

arguments... The honourable gentleman opposite he made a point

:15:46.:15:48.

about child poverty who has left his seat, seemed to indicate that due to

:15:49.:15:52.

the recession under the last Labour government, child poverty fell.

:15:53.:15:58.

Doesn't it show the fallacy of the arguments opposite and we are trying

:15:59.:16:02.

to seek the root causes of poverty, not a measure that simply doesn't

:16:03.:16:08.

work? It is absolutely clear that when children are the future of our

:16:09.:16:13.

country, it is right we focus on delivering better life chances for

:16:14.:16:17.

them. When we publish the life chances strategy we will make the

:16:18.:16:22.

biggest difference to children's life chances, now and in the future.

:16:23.:16:26.

We must seek to rescue a generation from poverty by extending life

:16:27.:16:31.

chances across the country. We must build a country where opportunity is

:16:32.:16:34.

more equal with stronger communities are young people who can face the

:16:35.:16:38.

world with a background of experiences and characteristics we

:16:39.:16:43.

know are vital for their success. As the Prime Minister said, we must

:16:44.:16:46.

seek to transform the life chances of the poorest in our country and of

:16:47.:16:50.

every child who has had a difficult start in life, with the promise of a

:16:51.:16:58.

brighter future. I will give way. I wonder whether she saw the report

:16:59.:17:03.

published by the scent for social justice last month, setting out a

:17:04.:17:06.

way of combining the life chances indicators, and there is interesting

:17:07.:17:12.

information in those, with income indicators as well, so we don't

:17:13.:17:15.

ignore the income, which is clearly a key aspect of this whole issue? I

:17:16.:17:20.

thank the right honourable gentleman for his intervention. We will be

:17:21.:17:26.

publishing the life chances strategy in the spring and it is us the

:17:27.:17:30.

opportunity to consider, holistically, the fact is that can

:17:31.:17:33.

lead to better outcomes for children and families. I recognise the point

:17:34.:17:41.

he makes. Just finally, I would, on the back of the remarks I have made,

:17:42.:17:46.

urge members to support the government's motion and reject the

:17:47.:17:52.

Lord's amendments. Turning to amendment is eight and nine, which

:17:53.:17:57.

indicated by you, Mr Deputy Speaker, impinge on the financial fringe of

:17:58.:18:02.

the House. They delete clauses 13 and 14 from the bill. Reverse the

:18:03.:18:07.

plan announced in the summer budget to line the amount paid to

:18:08.:18:10.

employment support allowance claimants in the work-related

:18:11.:18:13.

activity group to that which is paid to JS say claimants and to align the

:18:14.:18:19.

amount paid to universal credit limited capability for work payments

:18:20.:18:24.

to that of UC basic rate. I would like to take this opportunity to

:18:25.:18:28.

stress the government's strong belief that this reform is the right

:18:29.:18:31.

thing to do and part of efforts to improve, not just like chances, but

:18:32.:18:36.

to support them going into work so they can reach their full potential.

:18:37.:18:41.

It will allow me to explain why. Record employment levels and job

:18:42.:18:45.

growth in recent years has benefited many, but these benefits have yet to

:18:46.:18:53.

reach those on ESA. While one in every five JS say claimants moves of

:18:54.:18:56.

the benefit each month, this is true that just one in 100 ESA claimants

:18:57.:19:01.

in the world -- work-related activity group, people with health

:19:02.:19:07.

conditions and disabilities deserve better and more support. I

:19:08.:19:14.

appreciate the party opposite don't have any solutions to tackling the

:19:15.:19:17.

wider issues when it comes to welfare and would rather just

:19:18.:19:22.

continue to spend, in an unsustainable way, in terms of

:19:23.:19:26.

public spending. We have listened to the charities and campaigning

:19:27.:19:31.

organisations, who say improved employment support is key to helping

:19:32.:19:34.

people with health conditions and disabilities move closer to the

:19:35.:19:38.

labour market. And when they are ready, into work. I will give way. I

:19:39.:19:45.

look forward to the White Paper on this. Is she not doing this the

:19:46.:19:51.

wrong way round? Shouldn't she be introducing the White Paper first

:19:52.:19:54.

and then looking at the changes to ESA. What the she said to the

:19:55.:19:58.

honourable member from South Cambridgeshire, his third the beauty

:19:59.:20:06.

of this intermediate group is that it is just that intermediate. On the

:20:07.:20:10.

road to returning to work, but not quite there yet. I think the

:20:11.:20:15.

honourable gentleman is making my point for me in the sense that those

:20:16.:20:21.

on the work-related activity group need more support and covering a day

:20:22.:20:24.

have been getting too little support. That is the purpose of the

:20:25.:20:29.

reforms we are bringing in. We believe we must tackle this and

:20:30.:20:33.

provide the right financial security for individuals, but also look at

:20:34.:20:38.

the most effective ways to improve the well-being of individuals by

:20:39.:20:41.

giving them support to help them get back to work. There are almost half

:20:42.:20:46.

a million people in the work-related activity group getting too little

:20:47.:20:53.

support to move into work. We currently disincentive five them

:20:54.:20:56.

doing though. This government is determined to take the necessary

:20:57.:21:02.

steps to reform their life chances. The government is committed to

:21:03.:21:05.

showing disabled people are able to participate fully in society and we

:21:06.:21:10.

have set out our ambition to halve the disability employment gap. It is

:21:11.:21:13.

the duty of government to support those who want to work, to do so.

:21:14.:21:17.

Most people with disabilities and health conditions tell us they want

:21:18.:21:21.

to work, including the majority of ESA claimants, which 61% of those in

:21:22.:21:25.

the work-related activity group say they want to work and we mean to put

:21:26.:21:31.

their ambitions at the centre of achieving this. I will give way. We

:21:32.:21:38.

have established MacMillan Cancer Support disagrees with the Minister,

:21:39.:21:45.

Parkinson 's UK, mind, have said they disagree. Can the Minister say

:21:46.:21:50.

any organisation representing disabled people but agree with the

:21:51.:21:55.

position the government has taken on this? What I would say to the right

:21:56.:22:01.

honourable gentleman is we have been working with organisations and

:22:02.:22:03.

disability groups and we have been listening to them. Rather than

:22:04.:22:09.

making generalised comments, we are working with them. We are working

:22:10.:22:13.

with them on our white paper going forward as well. The ESA system was

:22:14.:22:20.

set up in Labour in 2008 is a bore people with health conditions and

:22:21.:22:26.

disabilities to work. It has failed the people it was designed to help.

:22:27.:22:31.

The original estimates were far more claimants would move into work. I

:22:32.:22:35.

white paper was published in 2008 and set out by the then Labour

:22:36.:22:39.

government, aim to reduce the number of people on incapacity benefits by

:22:40.:22:45.

1,000,020 15. We have spent 2.7 billion this year on the ESA work

:22:46.:22:52.

activity group. Only around 1% of people in this group move of the

:22:53.:22:56.

benefit every month. It is fair to say this benefit is not working as

:22:57.:23:01.

anyone intended. Most importantly, it is failing claimants badly. This

:23:02.:23:07.

government is committed to spending taxpayers money responsibly. We can

:23:08.:23:11.

improve life chances and help move them out of benefits and get them

:23:12.:23:16.

into work. Those in the work-related activity group given additional cash

:23:17.:23:19.

payments, but very little employment support. As the Prime Minister has

:23:20.:23:25.

stated, this fixation on welfare treat symptoms and not the causes.

:23:26.:23:30.

And it traps people into dependency, which is why we are proposing that

:23:31.:23:35.

through some of the money currently spends on cash payments, but are not

:23:36.:23:39.

actually achieving the desired effect of helping people move closer

:23:40.:23:42.

to the labour market, we will put this into practical support that

:23:43.:23:46.

will make a difference to people in these groups. In addition to the

:23:47.:23:51.

practical support, which is part of the real terms increase in the

:23:52.:23:58.

Autumn Statement, which is how the 60, to ?100 million of support which

:23:59.:24:02.

was set out in the budget, what we spend will be influenced not only by

:24:03.:24:08.

Whitehall, but by a task force of representatives from disability

:24:09.:24:10.

charities, disabled people's user groups organisations, employers,

:24:11.:24:16.

think tanks, provider representatives and global

:24:17.:24:19.

authorities and we're working with scope, Leonard Cheshire, the RNIB,

:24:20.:24:26.

the National Autistic Society and the disability action Alliance.

:24:27.:24:30.

Another issue raised in the passage of the bill by both members of this

:24:31.:24:35.

House and any other place, where concerns we were expecting claimants

:24:36.:24:38.

who had been found not fit for work to be able to work. This is not the

:24:39.:24:43.

case. I would like to clarify claimants in the work-related beauty

:24:44.:24:47.

group have been found to have limited edibility for work. This is

:24:48.:24:53.

different to being unfit for any work. There are many limitations on

:24:54.:24:57.

the type and the amount of work people in the work-related activity

:24:58.:25:02.

group can do, and may also need work Les adjustments. But employment

:25:03.:25:09.

isn't ruled out. That is why the ESA permitted work rules are there and

:25:10.:25:14.

why they are so important. It is an important distinction as this

:25:15.:25:17.

misconception helps drive people further away from the labour market,

:25:18.:25:21.

perpetuate the benefits trap and undermines the life chances of those

:25:22.:25:22.

claimants. She talks of fluctuating conditions

:25:23.:25:35.

but it is well-known that mental health causes fluctuating conditions

:25:36.:25:40.

which are very hard to deal with and yet 50% of the people affected by

:25:41.:25:44.

the cut in PSA have mental health conditions. Surely that is not being

:25:45.:25:52.

built into government thinking. I have just briefly touched on what we

:25:53.:25:56.

are doing in terms of looking for extra employment support and the

:25:57.:26:02.

fact we are working with other organisations, I have named some of

:26:03.:26:06.

them, but mental health in particular is crucial in terms of

:26:07.:26:10.

how we can connect our systems, working with the NHS, and we had a

:26:11.:26:15.

joint working group on the Department for Work and Pensions and

:26:16.:26:18.

the Department of Health looking at the support that people on the ESA

:26:19.:26:27.

with mental health conditions, how we can help them, signpost to them

:26:28.:26:31.

and help them get treatment. When the opposition talk about income,

:26:32.:26:37.

they mean welfare benefits. When we talk about income, in terms of

:26:38.:26:41.

children in relative poverty, the evidence shows 75% of those children

:26:42.:26:46.

will come of the poverty indicator if both parents are working. There

:26:47.:26:53.

are more children and families where people are working than ever before.

:26:54.:26:58.

An ESA, does she agree that those of us who have met people with

:26:59.:27:04.

significant disabilities who are now working, it is amazing what a

:27:05.:27:10.

difference it makes not just to income but life happiness? He is

:27:11.:27:17.

right to highlight the importance of work. To people who have been

:27:18.:27:24.

previously locked out of opportunities. This is a good

:27:25.:27:31.

example of working with employers to deliver sustained employment

:27:32.:27:33.

opportunities for people with disabilities. I think this gives me

:27:34.:27:40.

a good opportunity to reflect upon additional work taking place in

:27:41.:27:45.

government right now on a wide-ranging employer strategy,

:27:46.:27:48.

working with employers to look at how we can address the disability

:27:49.:27:54.

employment gap and work with employers so they can provide more

:27:55.:27:58.

structured opportunities to people with disabilities, and sustained

:27:59.:28:03.

employment. I think it is also important to recognise the changes

:28:04.:28:05.

to Employment Support Allowance and universal credit work together and

:28:06.:28:11.

cannot be taken forward in isolation. We have invested a

:28:12.:28:16.

significant amount in universal credits to make sure we keep people

:28:17.:28:22.

connected and engaged to the labour market from the outset of their

:28:23.:28:28.

claim. Unlike ESA, universal credit claimants with a health condition

:28:29.:28:35.

are offered support where it is appropriate at the start of their

:28:36.:28:40.

claim, helping them to remain closer to the labour market even if they're

:28:41.:28:44.

not immediately able to return to work but importantly it provides the

:28:45.:28:51.

support they need to get back into work which ultimately will help them

:28:52.:28:56.

get a job in the long run. I would like to stress that this change does

:28:57.:29:03.

not affect those in the ESA support group of the universal credit

:29:04.:29:07.

equivalent, or the agreements of the income related ESA. There will be no

:29:08.:29:16.

cash losers and this policy only applies to those who apply for ESA

:29:17.:29:21.

and subsequently enter it from April 20 17. We aim to protect those who

:29:22.:29:32.

move off ESA to look for work. People will be able to reclaim the

:29:33.:29:41.

ESA. Hopefully it will dispel the myth that everyone in that group

:29:42.:29:48.

will be affected by the change. Universal credit works differently

:29:49.:29:51.

from ESA but we aim to put similar protections in place. I would like

:29:52.:29:58.

to put on record that this reform is the first and a necessary step

:29:59.:30:01.

towards a wider reform package. In the Autumn Statement, the Chancellor

:30:02.:30:06.

of the Exchequer announced the Government will publish a White

:30:07.:30:10.

Paper this year to set out our plans to improve support for people with

:30:11.:30:14.

health conditions and disabilities including exploring the rules of

:30:15.:30:18.

employers and further reducing the disability employment gap, promoting

:30:19.:30:22.

integration across health and employment. Clauses 14 and 15 will

:30:23.:30:31.

provide the right support and incentives to help people with

:30:32.:30:34.

limited capability for work move closer to the labour market. In

:30:35.:30:40.

light of these arguments I hope honourable members will support the

:30:41.:30:45.

Government and I beg to move the motions. The question is that this

:30:46.:30:53.

House disagrees with the Lord's in their amendment. I would like to

:30:54.:31:00.

speak in support of the wards' amendment on and child poverty

:31:01.:31:06.

reporting obligations, and in addition amendments eight and nine.

:31:07.:31:19.

Amendment on places a reporting obligation on the Secretary of State

:31:20.:31:23.

requiring an annual report on child poverty is laid before the House.

:31:24.:31:29.

The amendment stipulates the report must include information on the

:31:30.:31:33.

percentage of children in poverty as originally described in the 2010

:31:34.:31:41.

child poverty act. The Bishop of Durham, who moved the amendment in

:31:42.:31:45.

the Lords, emphasised the importance of income in understanding child

:31:46.:31:49.

poverty and children's well-being and life chances. He says income

:31:50.:31:58.

measures would not supplant the Government's other measures relating

:31:59.:32:02.

to work as Miss and educational attainment but it ensures that

:32:03.:32:06.

income -based measures of child poverty is collected in the UK and

:32:07.:32:08.

other countries for decades are retained. Again, allowing year by

:32:09.:32:15.

year comparisons and holding the Government to account. Various

:32:16.:32:24.

charities have called on the Government not to abandon the income

:32:25.:32:29.

-based measure of child poverty, as has the equality and human rights

:32:30.:32:36.

commission. Today in a letter to The Times, 177 child health academics

:32:37.:32:41.

have written in support of retaining income -based measures for child

:32:42.:32:48.

poverty. Even Unicef urged the Government to retain the measures

:32:49.:32:55.

used across the 35 or ECD countries allowing intercountry comparisons.

:32:56.:33:01.

The Government's on 2014 evidence review of the drivers of child

:33:02.:33:08.

poverty towns like of -- found lack of significant income is the most

:33:09.:33:14.

important factor in lifting children out of poverty. Even the minister in

:33:15.:33:20.

a recent Westminster Hall debate acknowledged income is a significant

:33:21.:33:24.

part of the issue, but there are many other causes. The social

:33:25.:33:30.

mobility and child poverty commission in 2015, their annual

:33:31.:33:33.

report found 2.3 million children living below what is defined as the

:33:34.:33:38.

child poverty line and the resolution foundation estimates that

:33:39.:33:44.

in 2016 all on a further 200,000 children, predominantly from working

:33:45.:33:48.

households, will fall into poverty. This is on top of the ISS's

:33:49.:33:57.

projections that the files in child poverty at the beginning of the

:33:58.:34:00.

century at being reserved. -- reversed. It was estimated 200,000

:34:01.:34:07.

children will be pushed into poverty. It is entirely probable

:34:08.:34:13.

that the increase in child poverty will rise even more steeply. The all

:34:14.:34:26.

policies' recent inquiry showed clearly that it could lead to an

:34:27.:34:33.

increase in the number of children facing the misery and hardship of

:34:34.:34:37.

poverty by as many as 1.5 million by 2020. One or two things I'm sure my

:34:38.:34:46.

honourable friend will agree with me that we can't let the Government

:34:47.:34:51.

front bench get away with. Tax credits were introduced by a Labour

:34:52.:34:57.

government because the Conservative government of the 90s did nothing

:34:58.:35:00.

about child poverty. The Government says they want people to get into

:35:01.:35:08.

work but they get zero hours contracts and people can't get tax

:35:09.:35:13.

credits. In Coventry there are 18,000 people using feedback is.

:35:14.:35:17.

They are doing nothing about child poverty. Some very valid points. I

:35:18.:35:26.

will come onto them in an woman. The implication from these measures in

:35:27.:35:32.

terms of the future health and well-being of children is stark.

:35:33.:35:38.

There is overwhelming evidence child poverty has a direct impact on

:35:39.:35:42.

worsening children's social, emotional and cognitive outcomes.

:35:43.:35:49.

One witness to the inquiry told the inquiry that as children's lives

:35:50.:35:54.

unfold, the health associated with poverty limits their potential and

:35:55.:35:57.

development across a whole range of areas leading to her life chances in

:35:58.:36:03.

adult ad, with a knock-on effect on future generations. There was

:36:04.:36:10.

unanimous agreement from those providing evidence that although

:36:11.:36:13.

there is a positive correlation between work closeness and

:36:14.:36:18.

educational attainment with poverty, they are not indicators are measures

:36:19.:36:23.

of poverty. Two thirds of children in poverty are from working

:36:24.:36:35.

families. How does... ? I am grateful for giving way. She is

:36:36.:36:41.

making an excellent case. I wonder if she would agree with the IFS who

:36:42.:36:52.

say that the prognosis for child poverty under this government is

:36:53.:36:57.

bleak. We see the Government trying to hide information about what is

:36:58.:37:01.

happening to child poverty rather than trying to tackle the underlying

:37:02.:37:05.

causes which leads to it. That is disgraceful. That is an absolutely

:37:06.:37:14.

key point and I want to come onto some specifics in a little moment.

:37:15.:37:24.

She speaks about any work poverty but can she confirmed that under the

:37:25.:37:28.

last Labour government in the work poverty rose 20%? No. How does

:37:29.:37:42.

living in poverty affect children's development? Can I just make these

:37:43.:37:50.

points? People on low incomes are often juggling to heat or eat. As we

:37:51.:37:58.

heard this morning in the debate on the bedroom tax, paying the rent is

:37:59.:38:02.

an increasing issue for 42,000 people affected. Having a secure,

:38:03.:38:12.

warm home with a nutritious food are basic physiological needs. When

:38:13.:38:16.

these are not there, health sufferers physically and mentally,

:38:17.:38:18.

particularly for children as they develop. In work, or being

:38:19.:38:27.

well-educated does not guarantee these needs. Income does. The

:38:28.:38:36.

evidence my honourable friend alluded to, or the lack of it, is

:38:37.:38:42.

absolutely stark. Why was there no government impact assessment on the

:38:43.:38:48.

impact of these proposals? If we look at the evidence from the United

:38:49.:38:54.

States, when they analysed the effect of Social Security reforms,

:38:55.:38:58.

it shows that programmes focusing specifically on parental employment

:38:59.:39:04.

field. In fact, they had no effect or exacerbated children's health and

:39:05.:39:09.

conversely when programmes were about focusing on supplementing

:39:10.:39:15.

income of low income families, the improved health. Indicators are

:39:16.:39:24.

exactly that, not things that can be tackled, whereas this bill seeks to

:39:25.:39:28.

refocus the Government position on the underlying causes and symptoms.

:39:29.:39:35.

Would she agree that rather seeking to -- Rather than seeking to hide

:39:36.:39:38.

the figures, they will actually still be reported to? The point is

:39:39.:39:46.

about making the Government accountable for their policies that

:39:47.:39:49.

may in turn be affecting those measures. I know the honourable

:39:50.:39:58.

Jones and wanted to intervene. Both her party and hours are committed to

:39:59.:40:01.

ending child poverty saw the starting point is the same. The

:40:02.:40:06.

difference is the value of a relative indicator and she knows one

:40:07.:40:09.

of the difficulties with the relative indicator is that quite

:40:10.:40:14.

often it will apparently improve during times of recession but go

:40:15.:40:21.

down in times of crisis. How realistic to she think that is and

:40:22.:40:28.

how effective does she think the money was?

:40:29.:40:34.

If I could answer in this way, we know the value at having indicators

:40:35.:40:40.

that they can compare over a long period of time, and that is

:40:41.:40:45.

internationally recognised. What they provide is an opportunity for

:40:46.:40:48.

this covenant and future Government's, past Government's as

:40:49.:40:55.

well to be held to account for their policies and how they affect child

:40:56.:41:08.

poverty. -- Government's. It is important to remind the public

:41:09.:41:15.

benches that they had a persistent poverty measure and they material

:41:16.:41:23.

deprivation poverty measure. We are not relying on one matter. My

:41:24.:41:28.

honourable friend is spot on and this is what the award amendment is

:41:29.:41:33.

asking for. The exact same measures to be included. I just wanted to

:41:34.:41:37.

finish this bit, if I could. I think it sums up really, from one of the

:41:38.:41:45.

witnesses who is a clinical expert in child health. He said, "The

:41:46.:41:53.

Government is trying to refocus child poverty from Lincoln -based

:41:54.:41:57.

factors to family debt and addiction. -- income -based. A lack

:41:58.:42:08.

of material resources." I really think that sums it up so well. If we

:42:09.:42:16.

look. If we turn now to the UK's infant mortality rate. Approximately

:42:17.:42:21.

40 health of a nation, it is currently the highest quarter of all

:42:22.:42:26.

EU 15 countries. I have to say, I was shocked when I heard their spot

:42:27.:42:30.

for under five-year-olds, we have the worst mortality rate in all of

:42:31.:42:36.

Europe. We should be ashamed of that. We know that infant mortality

:42:37.:42:41.

is strongly linked to poverty and material deprivation. We know from

:42:42.:42:43.

National statistics that there is a five fold difference between the

:42:44.:42:49.

lowest and highest economic groups. There is not a law of nature that

:42:50.:42:54.

says that children from poor families have two die at five times

:42:55.:42:59.

the rate of children from rich families. -- have to die. I thank my

:43:00.:43:10.

honourable friend for giving way. She is giving very calm, realistic

:43:11.:43:15.

evidence of white money matters. Wiltshire grew me that it is

:43:16.:43:17.

disappointing to continually hear the myth from the other benches that

:43:18.:43:23.

it is educational attainment or will help that causes poverty, rather

:43:24.:43:26.

than poverty that causes those things? Again, my honourable friend

:43:27.:43:31.

sums it up perfectly. I absolutely agree. Because this is a serious

:43:32.:43:40.

question. If only one hand she is saying that the evidence shows that

:43:41.:43:43.

the mortality in broad children in this country is a tiny hole of the

:43:44.:43:46.

rest of Europe, and the benefits that we are giving our better than

:43:47.:43:50.

the rest of Europe, something is not working. What this evening has to be

:43:51.:43:58.

done to improve it? I think, again, the honourable gentleman is

:43:59.:44:04.

possibly... Has not got all the evidence here. Again, if we compare,

:44:05.:44:13.

for example, spending two GDP, we do and are particularly well. I'm going

:44:14.:44:22.

to move on. It is concluded that a quarter of all deaths under the age

:44:23.:44:25.

of one-year-old could potentially be avoided if all this at the same

:44:26.:44:29.

level of risks as for women with the lowest level of deprivation. Again,

:44:30.:44:34.

I think we should recognise that these are people living in our

:44:35.:44:40.

constituencies. Evidence to the all-party enquiry showed that

:44:41.:44:45.

eliminating UK child poverty would save the lives of 1400 children

:44:46.:44:52.

under 15 every year. Not just that, good early development is strongly

:44:53.:44:55.

associated with many positive outcomes in later life, including

:44:56.:44:59.

higher educational attainment and approved of one prospect in adult

:45:00.:45:04.

food. As another witness this right, we are facing a child prodigy

:45:05.:45:13.

crisis. -- poverty crisis. We must continue to invest in our children

:45:14.:45:16.

and support the most vulnerable in our society. The introduction of the

:45:17.:45:20.

so-called living wage, the increase in personal tax talent is as more

:45:21.:45:26.

free childcare, as the eye F F has clearly shown they will not offset

:45:27.:45:34.

the net was to households. -- IFS. Including from this bill. I urge you

:45:35.:45:38.

all to support this particular amendment. Our children was my

:45:39.:45:44.

future depend on it. -- children's features. If I could move on. Clause

:45:45.:45:54.

13 seeks to abolish the employment and support allowance component for

:45:55.:46:00.

new claimants from April 20 17th and replace it with a Universal Credit.

:46:01.:46:04.

The effects of this will mean that social security support for people

:46:05.:46:09.

with disability, developed a serious health condition will decrease by

:46:10.:46:18.

almost ?30 per week. If you want a wood at it annually, ?1500. The

:46:19.:46:23.

governor has argued that this will move the financial incentives that

:46:24.:46:27.

encourage claims to take that back to work. The Lords rejected this on

:46:28.:46:32.

a number of grounds. Firstly, people in the E F a -- ESA have gone

:46:33.:46:42.

through an assessment which found fit to work. This shows 5000 people

:46:43.:46:48.

with progressive conditions like multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's.

:46:49.:46:51.

It will not improve. It also includes the board cancer. A survey

:46:52.:46:54.

conducted by the charity MacMillan Cancer Support showed that one in

:46:55.:47:00.

ten cancer patients would struggle to pay their rent or mortgage if DES

:47:01.:47:04.

a was cut. The key issue is that they are not fit for work. -- ESA.

:47:05.:47:11.

Removing the financial incentives making them fit to work is a

:47:12.:47:18.

ridiculous notion. I am sorry, I have given the honourable gentleman

:47:19.:47:22.

a number of opportunities. Secondly, there is overwhelming evidence of

:47:23.:47:28.

extra costs faced by sick and disabled people. The associated

:47:29.:47:31.

poverty that they experience as a result and the clear implication

:47:32.:47:37.

that this has for their condition. We know, out of 12 million disabled

:47:38.:47:41.

people in the country, 5.1 million are living in poverty. We also know

:47:42.:47:47.

from the extra Corporation that disabled people are twice as likely

:47:48.:47:52.

to live in poverty. 80% of which is due to the extra costs and eight

:47:53.:47:55.

days because they are poorly. Because they have a disability.

:47:56.:48:06.

There was an excellent port harvesting the gap of real concerns

:48:07.:48:14.

of the Government's and the potential increase in people living

:48:15.:48:19.

in poverty was seen as inadequate. The cut in the financial support

:48:20.:48:25.

would have a detrimental impact to this group. The equal rights

:48:26.:48:30.

commission agreed. Their analysis said that this would cause

:48:31.:48:33.

unnecessary anxiety to people who have been independently found unfit

:48:34.:48:39.

for work. I am quoting that. My third point is that the scepticism

:48:40.:48:45.

of employment opportunities for sick and disabled people who may recover

:48:46.:48:49.

from their condition in the future. There are currently approximately

:48:50.:48:52.

1.3 million disabled people who are fit and able to work but are

:48:53.:48:56.

currently unemployed, accounting for the disability employment gap

:48:57.:49:01.

between disabled and non-disabled people. The covenant has rightly

:49:02.:49:05.

said that we need to have this but they have been left open in terms of

:49:06.:49:11.

how we can achieve this. -- got this in half. I agree with the honourable

:49:12.:49:16.

gentleman in terms of the disability White Paper. At the moment, we have

:49:17.:49:21.

a situation where there is one specialist disability employment

:49:22.:49:26.

adviser to 600 disabled people trying to get into work. I will. I

:49:27.:49:34.

am really grateful. She makes a very powerful point because she, like me,

:49:35.:49:37.

will see many of these people in surgeries on a regular basis. It is

:49:38.:49:43.

not me support. It is a very expensive support that is needed and

:49:44.:49:46.

the Government what's a good game and does not deliver. My honourable

:49:47.:49:50.

friend is absolutely right. I was going to move on to the support for

:49:51.:49:58.

disabled to work. Last year, only 36,800 people were supported. Again,

:49:59.:50:05.

I do support what is happening in terms of the disability confident

:50:06.:50:12.

scheme. We have to recognise that only 112... 112! Act of employers --

:50:13.:50:21.

acted employers. How are we meant to encourage and enable disabled people

:50:22.:50:25.

who are fit for work to get into work with these limited measures? It

:50:26.:50:29.

is all a bit topsy-turvy. I am very grateful. I hope you also agree with

:50:30.:50:37.

me that the incidents of lack of work opportunity go hand-in-hand. It

:50:38.:50:44.

is not just throughout the UK. A very valid point. A very valid point

:50:45.:50:47.

indeed. On top of the suggestion that working for-5 hours a week

:50:48.:50:54.

should regroup the loss of income with the introduction as been

:50:55.:50:59.

questioned by the human rights commission. -- 4-mac-5 hours a week.

:51:00.:51:12.

The proposed cuts will push six and disabled -- sick and disabled people

:51:13.:51:16.

into poverty. Not help, as the Government are saying it will do.

:51:17.:51:21.

The recent survey indicates not only the concerns of disabled people

:51:22.:51:28.

themselves, seven out of ten people believe their condition will

:51:29.:51:35.

deteriorate. A poll of 2000 adults conducted by Populace in January

:51:36.:51:41.

said over seven 2% said this will make this a word place for disabled

:51:42.:51:47.

people to live in. -- UK a worse place. This Government's and ?70

:51:48.:51:56.

million a year, that is more than France and Germany. If you what

:51:57.:51:59.

you're saying is true, it is not just about money, is it? Again, we

:52:00.:52:06.

need you would at are spend their GDP. -- Alice band. France and

:52:07.:52:15.

Germany spend more. Read and 1.3% to GDP. Contrary to what this comment

:52:16.:52:24.

perpetually try to save at how generously are, in terms of the

:52:25.:52:27.

actual spend in relation to be GDP, we are not good. It was 1.6% in

:52:28.:52:34.

1960, now it is one under single people. It is absolutely shameful.

:52:35.:52:44.

On the ground, I would ask -- 1.3%. Support Amendment eight. I want to

:52:45.:52:52.

move on to clause 14, which again in the Government has been more than a

:52:53.:52:55.

little disingenuous when it suggests the reduction in Social Security

:52:56.:53:04.

only applies to new VS a claimant 's -- ESA acquaintance. 492,180 people

:53:05.:53:15.

currently on this started to across to Universal Credit. As we know,

:53:16.:53:20.

this combined a number of benefits into one, and alternating a view as

:53:21.:53:27.

well as ESA. The work element of the UC. This means everyone currently on

:53:28.:53:43.

the ESA right will see their funding cut. Will my honourable friend agree

:53:44.:53:48.

with me that there is a difference between the words said earlier and

:53:49.:53:56.

the proposals to penalised people with mental health problems? I thank

:53:57.:54:03.

my honourable friend for his intervention and I absolutely agree

:54:04.:54:08.

with what he said. I have lost my place. What has been hidden so far

:54:09.:54:17.

is that this cut will also affect disabled people who are in low-paid

:54:18.:54:23.

work. Currently, 116,000 disabled people in low-paid work working over

:54:24.:54:30.

16 hours per week receive the disabled workers element of working

:54:31.:54:34.

tax credit, about ?60 per week. They get this as a direct result of being

:54:35.:54:40.

on DLA. They need is a various things including covering additional

:54:41.:54:46.

costs and working against things that non-disabled people do not

:54:47.:54:51.

face. He worked the main addition of financial support for people in work

:54:52.:54:55.

who are disabled. It is meant to cover the costs. However, unlike the

:54:56.:55:01.

disabled workers element of working tax credit, it is only available

:55:02.:55:07.

after the working disabled people have been through a work capability

:55:08.:55:10.

assessment. If the Government goes ahead with removing UC's element.

:55:11.:55:19.

The inevitable impact will be disabled people dropping out of the

:55:20.:55:24.

labour market, increasing, not reducing, the disability employment

:55:25.:55:26.

gap. It will have exactly the opposite effect the Government's say

:55:27.:55:32.

they want to achieve. It should also be noted that fully 43,000 disabled

:55:33.:55:37.

parents on disabled workers element working tax credit, with all of this

:55:38.:55:44.

measure will mean the family receive no financial, extra financial

:55:45.:55:47.

support, converts to a non-disabled family. -- and petty to. The report

:55:48.:55:58.

has shown the impact this has had on child poverty. Currently 40% of

:55:59.:56:01.

families affected by disability have children living in poverty. The

:56:02.:56:05.

finding from the enquiry was that this would get worse, with custody

:56:06.:56:11.

as a rag and limited capability for work. Again, for these reasons, I

:56:12.:56:17.

would urge everybody to support the Lords amendment nine, which seeks to

:56:18.:56:18.

remove this clause on the Dell. I have mentioned this specific

:56:19.:56:31.

effects of these measures. I know this is evidence -based. There has

:56:32.:56:39.

been no impact assessment, we have had to find evidence to identify the

:56:40.:56:42.

implications of these measures, because there was absolutely

:56:43.:56:48.

nothing, to the shame of this government. I would like to remind

:56:49.:56:54.

everybody that this is on top of many other measures. It is on top of

:56:55.:57:09.

closing the Independent living fund, which is now threatened with a

:57:10.:57:13.

further cut of 1.2 billion. On top of cuts on social care which affect

:57:14.:57:24.

disabled people, and on top of the cuts which are bound to happen with

:57:25.:57:28.

the hastily pushed through consultation earlier this year. The

:57:29.:57:39.

Government has tried to regenerate this economy on the backs of the

:57:40.:57:44.

poor and disabled. Work does not protect against poverty and the poor

:57:45.:57:46.

and disabled are made to pay the price. This is about cuts to Social

:57:47.:57:55.

Security. Instead of denigrating claimants in our Social Security

:57:56.:57:58.

system we should recognise the important role it plays, like the

:57:59.:58:05.

NHS, it is based on systems of inclusion, support, ensuring us all

:58:06.:58:12.

dignity and the basics of life should any one of us become ill or

:58:13.:58:18.

disabled or fall on hard times. Many members on all sides of the House

:58:19.:58:22.

believe this bill is a step too far and I urge them to support

:58:23.:58:28.

amendments one, eight and nine. There are a large number of members

:58:29.:58:34.

wishing to speak in this debate so if members could keep speeches as

:58:35.:58:45.

brief as possible. I will try to be brief. I wanted to explain why,

:58:46.:58:53.

despite some misgivings over minor details, I haven't to think -- I

:58:54.:59:01.

happen to think these amendments are wrong and a rich great step --

:59:02.:59:05.

retrograde. To lock policy failure into the

:59:06.:59:22.

legislation is unacceptable. I see constituents in a no man's land.

:59:23.:59:31.

They may have been found of limited capability for work, and they may

:59:32.:59:36.

have exhausted the avenues of appeal, but they will not feel

:59:37.:59:41.

comfortable to transition onto jobseeker's allowance even though in

:59:42.:59:47.

theory they may get greater support by going on to GSA. We need more

:59:48.:59:57.

disability advisers in the job centre. That is one use for the

:59:58.:00:03.

extra 100 million the Government is talking about. I want to make some

:00:04.:00:24.

progress. There are many of these people with the condition that makes

:00:25.:00:30.

a willingness for the employability market harder. Director denies there

:00:31.:00:44.

may be a handful of individuals affected by the changes announced

:00:45.:00:55.

here today. I happen to believe that it will follow the age-old pattern

:00:56.:00:59.

that every time it gets changed more and more people end up in the

:01:00.:01:04.

support group. We have seen that time and time again. I'm sure we

:01:05.:01:16.

could end up being back here discussing a subgroup of the support

:01:17.:01:21.

group, but we will not have the same policy framework in a few years, the

:01:22.:01:30.

Government has been more radical. If this was a sole policy information,

:01:31.:01:34.

I would share the concerns but it is not. We recognise the status quo is

:01:35.:01:41.

inadequate and the Government is committed to reforming the work

:01:42.:01:45.

capability assessment will stop a White Paper is coming which will

:01:46.:01:55.

hopefully reform things. It is the last remaining disability benefit

:01:56.:02:03.

that sees disability as a matter of physical rather than physical and

:02:04.:02:12.

mental health. In addition, if we pass amendments eight and nine, what

:02:13.:02:17.

we will not get is a ?100 million fund waste in the hands of the third

:02:18.:02:24.

sector to support people with limited capacity for work to try to

:02:25.:02:28.

get back into employment. That would be a waste of an opportunity. We

:02:29.:02:35.

have managed to get 339,000 more people back into employment over the

:02:36.:02:47.

past two years. The status quo we accept is inadequate. It will be the

:02:48.:02:57.

worst of all worlds to lock in a failed policy that will benefit no

:02:58.:03:01.

one at all. I would like to touch an amendment on. There is more

:03:02.:03:14.

consensus on both sides on how we view poverty. I do not to levels of

:03:15.:03:25.

income affect poverty. But I believe there are fundamental drivers which

:03:26.:03:35.

need to be addressed. This is not the end of the policy journey. There

:03:36.:03:41.

will be a White Paper on how we implement strategy and there will be

:03:42.:03:44.

an opportunity to look at how we integrate different indicators into

:03:45.:03:52.

the overall policy package. Amendment number one is

:03:53.:03:59.

fundamentally flawed. It shows a misunderstanding of how government

:04:00.:04:04.

works. You cannot place an obligation on the Government to

:04:05.:04:10.

pursue two contradictory policy objectives in terms of tackling

:04:11.:04:17.

poverty. If you're focusing solely on poverty plus a pound is the

:04:18.:04:22.

answer and at the same time obliging the Government to look at life

:04:23.:04:27.

chance indicators, it divides the attention of government. Members

:04:28.:04:36.

opposite may disagree and are at liberty to do so. But they cannot

:04:37.:04:48.

have both horses at once. The Minister has made clear that the

:04:49.:04:51.

data will still be collected and published and the opposition will be

:04:52.:04:55.

able to look at it, measure and assess it and others to account.

:04:56.:05:00.

Amendment number one seeks to ensure that the Government fails on both

:05:01.:05:03.

strategies. It does not allow us any latitude to pursue what we have an

:05:04.:05:10.

election mandate for which is welfare reform. What I suspect will

:05:11.:05:16.

happen is that when we get the life chances strategy it will be far more

:05:17.:05:18.

sophisticated than what has gone before. It has struck me as utterly

:05:19.:05:25.

perverse that the most effective and best way to reduce child poverty in

:05:26.:05:29.

this country is to somehow provoke a recession because that will bring

:05:30.:05:35.

the numbers down. Nobody can agree that is the best indicator to drive

:05:36.:05:40.

this change. It astounds me that the party opposite for the sake of

:05:41.:05:45.

posturing and what has happened in the other place decided this is

:05:46.:05:51.

their chance to once again make a stand and try to prevent this

:05:52.:05:56.

government doing something about it. I am proud to support what the

:05:57.:06:02.

ministers trying to do. We have had decades under governments of all

:06:03.:06:07.

persuasions on this issue and at last someone is trying to do

:06:08.:06:18.

something and an the other side we have nothing but rhetoric and

:06:19.:06:24.

opportunism. I am glad to have the opportunity to set out our

:06:25.:06:30.

opposition to this. The SNP will be voting to keep the Lord's amendments

:06:31.:06:35.

as part of the bill to take children and disabled people from poverty. In

:06:36.:06:40.

October my colleagues and I made a series of amendments to this bill

:06:41.:06:43.

which was sadly not successful but today I stand here calling for

:06:44.:06:48.

members across this House to take this final of virginity to stand up

:06:49.:06:54.

to this government's regressive and punitive Social Security cuts. I

:06:55.:06:59.

will focus on the scrapping of child poverty reporting obligations, the

:07:00.:07:13.

ending of the ESA Wrag and others. My colleagues will discuss other

:07:14.:07:25.

factors. Removing the income related measures of child poverty and

:07:26.:07:30.

replacing them with the reporting obligation for life chances for

:07:31.:07:36.

children and scrapping the target to end child poverty by 2020. Scrapping

:07:37.:07:42.

this when Joel poverty is on the rise is a dereliction of

:07:43.:07:44.

responsibility and highlights the lack of will from members opposite

:07:45.:07:48.

to do anything to reverse the growing numbers of low income

:07:49.:07:52.

families both in and out of work living in poverty. Amendment number

:07:53.:08:01.

one 62 in pose an additional reporting duty and the Secretary of

:08:02.:08:06.

State to lay before the Houses of Parliament and annual report on

:08:07.:08:11.

child poverty. This report should include data on the percentage of

:08:12.:08:18.

children living in low income houses of various degrees. The Bishop of

:08:19.:08:25.

Durham stressed the importance of income in understanding child

:08:26.:08:31.

poverty and children's well-being. It was argued that income measures

:08:32.:08:34.

would not displace other statutory measures relating to work listeners

:08:35.:08:43.

and educational attainment. Baroness Sherlock supported the amendment,

:08:44.:08:45.

noting it would cost nothing and that hold the Government to account

:08:46.:08:52.

on child poverty. We find it incredible that the Government would

:08:53.:08:55.

wish to remove all links to income in reporting child poverty. Income

:08:56.:09:01.

is fundamental to whether you are in or out of poverty. There is simply

:09:02.:09:06.

no getting away from that fact. We have no problem with the Government

:09:07.:09:12.

choosing to report on life chances, substance misuse, family break-up

:09:13.:09:15.

and unemployment by household but they cannot get away from the fact

:09:16.:09:21.

that these things are not issues isolated to those in poverty. Far

:09:22.:09:27.

from it. Using those alternative measures and isolation without

:09:28.:09:37.

income figures is trying to characterise poverty is a lifestyle

:09:38.:09:43.

choice. These issues can impact life chances but income deprivation all

:09:44.:09:49.

was well. An alcoholic single parent may be capable for any number of

:09:50.:09:53.

reasons of putting food on the table and keeping the House warm. That may

:09:54.:09:59.

not be possible for a married couple with no substance problems on low

:10:00.:10:07.

income. Why would this government to choose to ignore how many children

:10:08.:10:10.

don't have an outdoor space to play in safely all the family to be able

:10:11.:10:14.

to celebrate a special occasion for them or when they can eat fresh

:10:15.:10:21.

fruit and vegetables every day. 1.7 million children live in families

:10:22.:10:25.

that wants to heat their homes but cannot. Thousands of children cannot

:10:26.:10:36.

have clothes. What is this if it is not poverty? We must continue

:10:37.:10:41.

reporting on these matters and by removing reporting or applications

:10:42.:10:52.

-- obligations the Government means effective strategies will not be in

:10:53.:10:56.

place and the aim of eradicating child poverty in the UK will be

:10:57.:11:01.

lost. Two thirds of children live in households live... Were someone is

:11:02.:11:09.

work, while in poverty. By making fundamental changes we will not know

:11:10.:11:13.

how these children are suffering and there is no accountability for this

:11:14.:11:17.

government or future governments to respond. The Government's on

:11:18.:11:23.

evidence review of the drivers of child poverty found a lack of

:11:24.:11:26.

sufficient income from parental income, not just work listeners, is

:11:27.:11:30.

the most important factor standing in the way of children being lifted

:11:31.:11:33.

out of poverty. The report says, the main lack of

:11:34.:11:45.

sufficient income from parental employment. That restrict the amount

:11:46.:11:52.

of earnings and household has. This is due to working insufficient hours

:11:53.:11:55.

and all low pay. The evidence is there. Income is fundamental. The

:11:56.:12:03.

main factor in driving poverty, therefore it must be a factor in

:12:04.:12:07.

measuring a child poverty. Now, one of the most common questions I get

:12:08.:12:12.

asked when discussing my job in this place is whether Tory MPs we the

:12:13.:12:15.

damage this Government is doing and is going to do to individuals,

:12:16.:12:24.

families and society. Are they so out of touch or are they aware and

:12:25.:12:28.

just don't care? I have to be honest, I struggle to answer to my

:12:29.:12:31.

constituents and others. The briefings that we all get sent

:12:32.:12:37.

highlight what is at stake. I'm sure the members opposite redone as I do.

:12:38.:12:43.

Does their ideology just blind them to the damage that is being done?

:12:44.:12:47.

Visits children's lies that we are talking about. Children whose

:12:48.:12:53.

families have nothing. Of course we should try to tackle that. --

:12:54.:12:58.

children's alive his. We want it ended. Those who cannot see that and

:12:59.:13:02.

those who will vote with the Government later have to question

:13:03.:13:05.

whether their ideology will get a the way of their moral compass. I

:13:06.:13:09.

turn now to the Government's desire to scrap ESA Wrag. Lords and

:13:10.:13:20.

includes eight and 90 to remove clauses 13 and 14. -- eight and

:13:21.:13:27.

nine. A number of us, including myself were at the gallery

:13:28.:13:31.

spokesperson 's blog so eloquently. National Autistic Society, mencap

:13:32.:13:45.

and scope. The report published on the 8th of December pointed out

:13:46.:13:49.

something else, there is no evidence that ESA Wrag is detrimental to

:13:50.:14:00.

people with disabilities going back to work. The proposed reduction is

:14:01.:14:05.

likely to move those within this group further away from the labour

:14:06.:14:08.

market, rather than closer to it. The removal of the ?30 per week

:14:09.:14:14.

would reduce claimants from taking practical steps to going back to

:14:15.:14:18.

work. The room reduction in financial support is likely to

:14:19.:14:24.

prevent people from looking for work. They would risk taking a law

:14:25.:14:33.

benefit should they lose their job in the future. The Government should

:14:34.:14:44.

halt its proposed change to the SA Wrag, and Lord low in particular it

:14:45.:14:49.

is very pertinent points during his consideration of these matters. He

:14:50.:14:52.

emphasised that a drop in income of ?1500 per year would take ESA Wrag

:14:53.:15:06.

claimants down and that could be catastrophic for many people

:15:07.:15:13.

currently claiming ESA a Wrag. . He said it didn't stand up. The review

:15:14.:15:18.

found barriers to disabled people seeking employment was not any

:15:19.:15:21.

financial disincentive wrongly SA. Instead, I quote, their health

:15:22.:15:30.

condition, impairment, difficulty with transport and a lack of

:15:31.:15:35.

qualifications and experience in job opportunities. The gap was welcomed

:15:36.:15:41.

but it would hinder one opportunities for those looking for

:15:42.:15:45.

work. He also raised the issue of the need for a tailored personalised

:15:46.:15:48.

support for disabled people to return to work. We might remember at

:15:49.:15:55.

this stage that the Prime Minister, therefore the election last year

:15:56.:15:58.

vowed not to cut benefits to disabled people. I have called from

:15:59.:16:02.

an interview that he gave the BBC breakfast he that his covenant with

:16:03.:16:12.

project disabled people from cuts. This makes an absolute mockery of

:16:13.:16:17.

that pre-election pledge. This cut penalises disabled people looking

:16:18.:16:20.

for work. It does nothing to help them act into work and will push so

:16:21.:16:29.

many into poverty. I will give way. Given that it has been emphasised

:16:30.:16:33.

time and time again the importance of evidence -based policy, is he not

:16:34.:16:37.

struck by the fact that there is no evidence which suggests a reduction

:16:38.:16:42.

of ?30 per week would actually push people more towards work?

:16:43.:16:50.

I will come and thank the honourable member for his contribution. The

:16:51.:16:54.

officer appealed to the case. There are disability groups with knowledge

:16:55.:17:00.

in this area saying that this will hinder their opportunities in the

:17:01.:17:02.

work. I welcome to contribute and I thank him for that. Baroness Grey

:17:03.:17:08.

Thompson's speech in January on this area highlighted perfectly. I urge

:17:09.:17:17.

those to read it quickly. She said, and I quote, if this measure goes

:17:18.:17:24.

through, under Universal Credit, the flagship element of, and policy --

:17:25.:17:31.

governments policy, in comparison with a non-disabled parent, in

:17:32.:17:34.

otherwise, the same circumstances. What to do this in for a disabled

:17:35.:17:38.

characters that single, disabled parents working 60 hours or more,

:17:39.:17:41.

living in rented accommodation and making a new kind were Universal

:17:42.:17:45.

Credit in 2017 will receive about ?70 to recall 3.5 thousand pounds

:17:46.:17:52.

per year of less than they would under the current system. Keeping

:17:53.:17:57.

clause 14 in the bill will be devastating. It means that far from

:17:58.:18:01.

being an incentive for disabled people to get into work, find work

:18:02.:18:05.

and contributors and tidy future, those are deteriorating conditions

:18:06.:18:11.

will be less likely to stay in work. -- contribute to society. I wonder,

:18:12.:18:17.

when we were talking about evidence, the evidence that only one in 100

:18:18.:18:19.

disabled people are actually finding work shows that rather than the

:18:20.:18:28.

intermediate stage of Wrag that he was suggesting earlier on, it

:18:29.:18:32.

actually becomes a long-term group rather than an intermediate. The

:18:33.:18:41.

Government's work programme has been a natural talent show that those who

:18:42.:18:47.

are on ESA Wrag take more time to get back into work. Cutting away the

:18:48.:18:51.

city boundary, they are cutting... The Government is cutting away their

:18:52.:18:54.

ability to fine job opportunities. That is shameful. Again, I urge

:18:55.:19:00.

everyone to read baroness Grey Thompson's speech from January

:19:01.:19:07.

before voting this evening. A report in 2015 found that seven in ten said

:19:08.:19:14.

a cut in ESA would cause their help to suffer, as the said it would make

:19:15.:19:18.

their return to work later. A third said that they could not afford to

:19:19.:19:22.

eat in the current amount they received from ESA Wrag. Scott is

:19:23.:19:31.

concerned that this will detrimentally impact their financial

:19:32.:19:35.

well-being, placing them further from work. -- Scope. 49% of disabled

:19:36.:19:47.

people use credit cards or loans to pay for everyday items, including

:19:48.:19:55.

food or clothing. Houses with disabled people living in them would

:19:56.:20:00.

be much harder, where one third of those already living below the

:20:01.:20:02.

poverty line. This reduction in income will have a devastating

:20:03.:20:07.

impact on those with most need of Government support. As with the CSA

:20:08.:20:16.

does not support... Then climbs above. These two things are not

:20:17.:20:20.

related. Disabled people do not get it back to work support they need, I

:20:21.:20:26.

as a viewpoint. An official independent review highlighted this,

:20:27.:20:38.

saying they do not get back to work support. Reducing benefits of what

:20:39.:20:44.

does not incentivise going back to work. It contains no evidence at

:20:45.:20:49.

showing that reducing support to disabled people in need ESA a

:20:50.:20:53.

ranking group will incentivise them to work. -- Wrag. Is the argument

:20:54.:21:09.

was supported with quote saying that abolishing this would be

:21:10.:21:18.

detrimental. A professor at the University of Kent agrees with this

:21:19.:21:24.

saying that the removal could lead to an increase of people being

:21:25.:21:29.

placed in support groups. The minister said in her speech that she

:21:30.:21:32.

had worked with and listened to the likes of Scope, Macmillan and others

:21:33.:21:38.

but they still oppose the cut. She has to answer why she believes that

:21:39.:21:41.

this will be the case. I was interested to read a story in the

:21:42.:21:46.

Guardian a few days ago, quoting the honourable member for Stafford,

:21:47.:21:50.

Stevenage and south Cambridge. Respond to members of Tory MPs

:21:51.:21:52.

putting pressure on the Government on this matter. My less frequently

:21:53.:21:58.

do the Telegraph, but I believe there are also mentioned in there

:21:59.:22:02.

this morning. -- I am a less frequent reader of the Telegraph.

:22:03.:22:12.

The Honourable member of South Cambridgeshire wrote, it was a

:22:13.:22:18.

brilliant article, what she said is, "What has suddenly changed in the

:22:19.:22:21.

lives of these individuals that there are suddenly fit or not fit to

:22:22.:22:24.

work? The beauty of this intermediate Wrag group is just

:22:25.:22:32.

that. It is intermediate. Recovering from chemotherapy but needing to

:22:33.:22:36.

keep the heat on that little bit more. Many people who are ill are

:22:37.:22:39.

desperate to work but happily supported financially until they are

:22:40.:22:43.

fit to work. There are economic barriers standing in their way.

:22:44.:22:46.

Reducing financial support only serves to create a further humbled

:22:47.:22:48.

to be overcome. Many of these people have worked and paid in for many

:22:49.:22:53.

years before falling ill. They deserve better than this. The voters

:22:54.:22:58.

to trust us to build a fairer society deserve better than this. "

:22:59.:23:03.

I'd hate to her to her and her colleagues. Thank you for supporting

:23:04.:23:06.

the above amendments today. I desperately hope that those

:23:07.:23:08.

mentioned have been working on colleagues to join us in your lobby

:23:09.:23:17.

later. These are the same issues with the cuts to tax credits with

:23:18.:23:21.

many opposite lobbying hard on. This will impact on low impact, disabled

:23:22.:23:30.

people looking for work and according to organisations mentioned

:23:31.:23:36.

already, sit advice Scotland, etc will this incentivise people looking

:23:37.:23:45.

to return to work. This welfare -- this incentivise. The assessment of

:23:46.:23:54.

third sector organisations, opposition parties in the house of

:23:55.:23:57.

Lords is that the amendments need to remain. We have seen Government

:23:58.:24:01.

forcefully cart into the welcome U-turn on the benefit catalogue

:24:02.:24:05.

errors. They have also been talking about benefit tax at the grand jury

:24:06.:24:09.

for disabled people. We also know that the UN is investigating the

:24:10.:24:13.

Government's Welfare Cap. Disabled people should not lead the icons to

:24:14.:24:16.

Delhi Tories what is right in what is wrong. This is our last

:24:17.:24:23.

opportunities. -- tell the Tories. Stop trying to slash the number of

:24:24.:24:32.

people able to work's funding by ?30 per week. This is vindictive and

:24:33.:24:36.

woefully lacks... I hope everyone will think carefully and consider

:24:37.:24:42.

the impact it will have on people and only country. There was only one

:24:43.:24:46.

course of action open to us today, oppose these proposals and support

:24:47.:24:49.

the Lords amendments before us today.

:24:50.:24:56.

I rise to speak today on amendments eight and nine. Reforming our

:24:57.:25:04.

welfare state continues to be one of the greatest challenges facing this

:25:05.:25:08.

and previous governments. We are making progress with record levels

:25:09.:25:13.

of employment and the welfare and reform Bill at the heart of this.

:25:14.:25:22.

Welfare must change. It placed restrictions on the aspirations of

:25:23.:25:27.

so many people. Bright employees work shackled to the state by the

:25:28.:25:32.

barrier of 16 hours of employment. Some people doubt the power of

:25:33.:25:37.

universal credits to transform lives. I am in no doubt it marks the

:25:38.:25:45.

beginning of a new age where the individual and the state are

:25:46.:25:49.

partners in the future opportunities of that individual and their family.

:25:50.:25:56.

But I feel sense of deja vu. Change must happen but in a way those

:25:57.:26:04.

affected by the change can prepare. Today we are debating whether we can

:26:05.:26:15.

cut the Wrag allowance. The DWP speak of a White Paper that will

:26:16.:26:19.

provide their strategy of offering a different kind of support to help

:26:20.:26:24.

those people return to work. There is apparently also some ?100 million

:26:25.:26:32.

available by 2020-21. I have listened intently for reassurance as

:26:33.:26:40.

to how that money will be spent. She says he task force will be set up

:26:41.:26:44.

but this should have happened before decisions were made to reduce

:26:45.:26:51.

financial support. I am uncomfortable to agree to these cuts

:26:52.:26:54.

and telling you what the new world will look like for these people. I

:26:55.:26:59.

don't believe men touring and support alone will hide the home of

:27:00.:27:03.

someone recovering from chemotherapy nor help out the man with

:27:04.:27:08.

Parkinson's who needs extra help. I remain unconvinced that these people

:27:09.:27:13.

do not also have an eventual needs. The DWP said many people say stuck

:27:14.:27:18.

in the group for too long, two years. I would question the

:27:19.:27:27.

conclusion they are incentivised to stay there financially. That says

:27:28.:27:34.

more about DWP failures than an active choice of the claimant.

:27:35.:27:42.

People do not have an easy time. They must demonstrate an appetite to

:27:43.:27:48.

be transitioned to work and face sanctions if not. Anyone who has

:27:49.:27:58.

suffered cancer is likely to want to go back to normal life. Many of my

:27:59.:28:12.

constituency would stand to lose ?30 of their weekly income if we accept

:28:13.:28:16.

this bill in its original form and ignore the Lords. I need to see more

:28:17.:28:22.

detail of the White Paper contents and hear the financial support that

:28:23.:28:26.

will be made available before I can fully support the Government. If we

:28:27.:28:33.

do not get this right we will damage the employment prospects of

:28:34.:28:37.

vulnerable claimants but also our reputation and trust amongst the

:28:38.:28:43.

electorate, and to secure my trust I must believe in the White Paper and

:28:44.:28:48.

that a ?100 million is going to go some way towards those people. This

:28:49.:28:53.

is my warning shot to government. I will not support them today. I may

:28:54.:29:01.

abstain, but only for today. Let's get the details right. Let's be a

:29:02.:29:08.

government of sweeping strategic change but also one with a

:29:09.:29:12.

compassion and the dexterity to look after the little man as well. One of

:29:13.:29:22.

the big changes of this Parliament to previous parliaments is that when

:29:23.:29:26.

we now debate welfare reform there are too many speakers whereas in

:29:27.:29:30.

previous parliaments the whips had a key job of pushing as in to speak. I

:29:31.:29:37.

will try to be briefed but I am immensely pleased to follow the

:29:38.:29:41.

member for South Cambridgeshire not only because of the role she plays

:29:42.:29:46.

in the House but also the particular role she plays an this site

:29:47.:29:49.

committee of which I am also a member. Like her, I wish to speak in

:29:50.:29:56.

favour of the Lords amendments eight and nine but I want to question

:29:57.:30:00.

whether the Lords are right on amendment on and I do so not because

:30:01.:30:09.

I think it isn't necessary for us to more regularly consider whether

:30:10.:30:13.

those people out of work in our society have adequate income. I

:30:14.:30:19.

think it is true that most of us would find it near impossible to

:30:20.:30:26.

live on the scale rates, as their cruelly cold, that we give to people

:30:27.:30:31.

out of work. That millions to shows a credit to their budgeting skills

:30:32.:30:37.

which most of us do not possess. This debate is more than that. It is

:30:38.:30:44.

more than about the importance of thinking what that minimum income

:30:45.:30:48.

is, but it is a strategy to prevent as forever and a day in the House of

:30:49.:30:54.

Commons debating the numbers of people who are poor in this country

:30:55.:30:59.

and it may be that the report the Prime Minister asked me to write

:31:00.:31:08.

about preventing poor children becoming poor adults please is not

:31:09.:31:14.

part in government strategy on life chances because I argued while

:31:15.:31:19.

income is important merely measuring income is inadequate in successfully

:31:20.:31:25.

countering the extent of poverty in the country. We should look at the

:31:26.:31:36.

drivers of poverty. As soon as IM back to that analysis I was struck

:31:37.:31:44.

going to visit reception teachers in different parts of the country who

:31:45.:31:53.

volunteered information that within the first half term of skill they

:31:54.:31:57.

could predict where those children would end up. They could say

:31:58.:32:02.

confidently who would be head girl, who would find it easy to fly in

:32:03.:32:08.

this world and who would struggle and fail. That got me to think about

:32:09.:32:18.

whether we needed to move beyond merely measuring poverty against

:32:19.:32:28.

life chances. I am grateful. I wonder if he would accept that all

:32:29.:32:35.

that the amendment on does is require that income -based measures

:32:36.:32:46.

are reported alongside other factors, not instead of. The report

:32:47.:32:57.

I issued said we should come to new -- continue to publish all data.

:32:58.:33:03.

There is more to this debate than what is on the record. There has

:33:04.:33:08.

historically been a big divide between those who see that money is

:33:09.:33:12.

the only agent to counter poverty, and it clearly makes it easier for

:33:13.:33:17.

people if they have more money than less, but whether it actually chance

:33:18.:33:20.

farms life chances in the wake we wish to see is the question which I

:33:21.:33:27.

posed. We wanted to know, taking into account how important income is

:33:28.:33:32.

and also class in determining life chances, were the drivers of poverty

:33:33.:33:40.

more powerful than income and class? The report lists those which are

:33:41.:33:45.

more powerful if you hold income and class constant. What are the factors

:33:46.:33:51.

that sure we can make progress even if we are not making the progress we

:33:52.:33:57.

would like to see on a more fair distribution of income. While we

:33:58.:34:04.

ought to have a debate about the minimum levels of income and how

:34:05.:34:09.

adequate they are this side of the House and many of the other side who

:34:10.:34:15.

aren't disturbed by the gross inequalities in our society don't

:34:16.:34:23.

think we will deal with those by benefit changes. Throughout the

:34:24.:34:29.

Western world there are great drivers of inequality that serve up

:34:30.:34:32.

to the rich and particularly the very very rich rewards which are

:34:33.:34:38.

grotesque impaired with the average, let alone those who learn at least

:34:39.:34:42.

in our communities. There is no debate about that. It is about in

:34:43.:34:47.

any point of time where should we put taxpayer money? People have

:34:48.:34:56.

talked about governments as having money but we have to tax people to

:34:57.:35:06.

get money and win their support. We are beginning solely as a house to

:35:07.:35:09.

accept that it is dangerous to have a welfare system more generous to

:35:10.:35:14.

those out of work than those in work. That is why I welcome the

:35:15.:35:19.

Chancellor of the Exchequers strategy of moving towards a living

:35:20.:35:25.

wage over the life of the Parliament. It is only a beginning

:35:26.:35:32.

but it is a very important beginning because if we are successful in

:35:33.:35:39.

moving to that living wage without big unemployment consequences, and I

:35:40.:35:43.

believe we will be, it gives us more freedom to manoeuvre about where we

:35:44.:35:50.

should set our benefit levels. My plea today is that we shouldn't

:35:51.:35:53.

think it is one or the other. The Government will publish the data.

:35:54.:35:59.

I'm sure if we had a chat to them they could publish it alongside the

:36:00.:36:04.

life chances data. That is not what the debate is about. It is about

:36:05.:36:09.

those who believe is the only agent of change is income and I don't want

:36:10.:36:16.

to concede any grounds to anybody in emphasising the importance of

:36:17.:36:20.

income, particularly those at the bottom of the pile, working or not

:36:21.:36:26.

working, but the report on the foundation years, if we were serious

:36:27.:36:29.

about preventing poor children becoming poor adults, we need a

:36:30.:36:36.

different strategy to that which we adopted up to that point, which was

:36:37.:36:40.

about cash transfers, important as they are, but I thought it was

:36:41.:36:46.

inadequate. Given what was reception teachers said, and here I make a

:36:47.:36:50.

plea to the Government, that by those children -- by the time that

:36:51.:36:54.

you can come to school they know who will succeed or not, I asked other

:36:55.:37:03.

people, health visitors and children as toddlers, could they tell us who

:37:04.:37:07.

would be successful? They had very clear views issue as drawn the short

:37:08.:37:15.

straw and who has not. If we are serious about this tragedy, it will

:37:16.:37:24.

take the power to add these measurements in, but we need to

:37:25.:37:29.

measure whether we are increasing life chances by more parents being

:37:30.:37:38.

ready for births than less, whether interventions after that are

:37:39.:37:41.

successful, and whether those children... With those children are

:37:42.:37:50.

entering school and ready to benefit in education. Is it not the case

:37:51.:38:00.

that measuring at Key stage four when a young person is so utterly

:38:01.:38:06.

after the horse has bolted that we will not have any impact? Teachers

:38:07.:38:12.

report a year's difference in the ability to communicate by the time a

:38:13.:38:18.

child is five. We must change that. I don't think any of us are talking

:38:19.:38:26.

about money or life chances, we are arguing for both. This shows how the

:38:27.:38:32.

debate is changing because it wasn't always. I conclude by emphasising

:38:33.:38:43.

the point she made a stop I was staggered when the Secretary of

:38:44.:38:47.

State said one of the key wife chances was when children were at

:38:48.:38:51.

16, given he has done more than anybody in now house teaches how

:38:52.:38:57.

crucial life chances before five are if we are to change opportunities

:38:58.:39:02.

and allow people to develop themselves best. I hope that when we

:39:03.:39:08.

conclude the debate the Treasury bench will be able to say more about

:39:09.:39:15.

just how important those life chances before five are. Measure at

:39:16.:39:21.

other ages if you want to but if we're serious about changing the

:39:22.:39:25.

life chances of poorest children in our constituencies then we should go

:39:26.:39:31.

for a series of life chances long before they reach school. Every

:39:32.:39:36.

reception teacher I met will tell you that life is over by the time

:39:37.:39:45.

they come into school. So an emphasis on trying to present both

:39:46.:39:50.

how the debate has developed in the last ten years, how much I welcome

:39:51.:39:54.

that, but also I hope I put clearly why I think the Lords are mistaken

:39:55.:40:00.

with the first Amendment and how much I agree with the case my right

:40:01.:40:09.

honourable friend made about support for amendments eight and nine.

:40:10.:40:18.

I was going to call Mr Maynard but I just realised he has already spoken.

:40:19.:40:23.

He does not need to repeat his speech. He was on the list but he

:40:24.:40:33.

has been ticked off it. Thank you. It is a particular pleasure to

:40:34.:40:36.

follow the member for Birkenhead who speaks with unrivalled expertise on

:40:37.:40:41.

these matters of course. I agree with the fundamental point that he

:40:42.:40:48.

made. I would like to speak to pose Lords amendment one which seeks to

:40:49.:40:51.

an end clause four of the bill is passed by this house. I do so as a

:40:52.:40:57.

member of the Bill committee which scrutinised this legislation 15

:40:58.:41:01.

sessions are so if I recall last autumn. Clause four of the bill, as

:41:02.:41:09.

passed by this house, introduces a new duty by the Secretary of State

:41:10.:41:14.

to report annually on to life chances measures. Firstly, the

:41:15.:41:17.

abortion of children living in workless households, and secondly --

:41:18.:41:27.

proportion of children. In effect, it reveals most of the Child poverty

:41:28.:41:31.

action 2010. The awards and amendment seeks, in effect, to

:41:32.:41:36.

replicate part of that act that relate to the proportion of children

:41:37.:41:43.

living in poverty. This requires the Secretary of State to report on for

:41:44.:41:48.

specific measures. Relative low income, combined low income and

:41:49.:41:54.

material deprivation, absolute low income and persistent poverty. The

:41:55.:41:59.

bill, as passed by this house, does not mean the Government will stop

:42:00.:42:05.

measuring and publishing such data on household income. The Government

:42:06.:42:09.

will continue to publish low income data in the households below average

:42:10.:42:14.

income publication annually. Now, this data includes, and members

:42:15.:42:20.

might get a sense of deja vu all over again, this data includes

:42:21.:42:25.

relative low income, combined low income and material deprivation.

:42:26.:42:29.

Now, that probably rings bells because those caught breweries,

:42:30.:42:37.

categories replicate everything in this bill. To put it simply, the

:42:38.:42:42.

Government is already doing it. The information is available for all

:42:43.:42:51.

proceeds and will to be so. The publication of a protected status as

:42:52.:42:54.

a national statistics product and ministers have undertaken in the

:42:55.:42:58.

south to publish as they annually. So, this particular amendment from

:42:59.:43:02.

their logic's house, and I say this with the greatest respect, is simply

:43:03.:43:07.

unnecessary. It's a fact to replicate something which the

:43:08.:43:11.

Government is already doing. Of course I give way. My understanding

:43:12.:43:19.

is, with all due respect to the honourable member, there is no

:43:20.:43:22.

statutory obligation to that and there is certainly no statutory

:43:23.:43:30.

obligation. Well, the Government has made a commitment to continued,

:43:31.:43:42.

annually, to publish this data. Under the previous Labour

:43:43.:43:44.

governments, the number of households where nobody worked

:43:45.:43:48.

double. In the work poverty increased. The Government missed its

:43:49.:43:56.

target by 600,000. So, this will, as passed by this house, does not

:43:57.:44:04.

redefine poverty to exclude income. Some of its opponents often say.

:44:05.:44:08.

That argument assumes that measuring income is an effective or they a

:44:09.:44:16.

helpful way of measuring poverty in the first place. It is none of those

:44:17.:44:19.

things. In that respect, the 2010 act was flawed in its approach. The

:44:20.:44:27.

current income measures in the act show that the number of children in

:44:28.:44:31.

relative poverty can actually go down in a recession, but are in

:44:32.:44:35.

times of growth. That is simply perverse. Furthermore, the measures

:44:36.:44:40.

incentivise what is often known as a poverty plus a pound approach. That

:44:41.:44:44.

is where families seemingly can be moved out of poverty without any

:44:45.:44:48.

change whatsoever in the underlying factors that got him into that

:44:49.:44:51.

position of low income in the first place. The act is simply not being

:44:52.:45:00.

what it is intended to do. I thank the honourable member for giving

:45:01.:45:03.

way. Will he agree with me that under the current measures, the only

:45:04.:45:10.

way to eliminate poverty is to collapse the economy completely and

:45:11.:45:17.

make everyone poor? The 2010 act is flawed. In seeking, in effect the

:45:18.:45:27.

provisions, I found these were wanting. Let's look at what the bill

:45:28.:45:30.

in its current form as passed by the sounds was actually do and why

:45:31.:45:34.

therefore, the amendment from their logic would not, in my estimation,

:45:35.:45:41.

be in seeking to reverse these measures. What the current build

:45:42.:45:46.

ours is enshrined in legislation the Government's commitment to end child

:45:47.:45:53.

poverty and to remove children's life chances. It focuses on the

:45:54.:45:57.

actions that will make the biggest difference to the life chances of

:45:58.:46:00.

children and young people. Both now and in the future. We need measures

:46:01.:46:06.

that will drive the right action to tackle the root causes of poverty,

:46:07.:46:11.

rather than just the symptoms. That is why the proposals in the bill

:46:12.:46:15.

introduced the new life chances measures of worklessness and

:46:16.:46:20.

educational attainment. The policies of this Government in targeted life

:46:21.:46:27.

chances look importantly at outcomes, not input. It is a

:46:28.:46:30.

comprehensive approach. It recognises that the real root out of

:46:31.:46:42.

poverty is work. -- route. 70% of less well off families who have

:46:43.:46:45.

undercover escape the poverty drought, if one can use that phrase.

:46:46.:46:52.

What that each to do is replace the holy arbitrary measure that a

:46:53.:46:56.

household is in poverty if it's income is below the average minimum

:46:57.:47:06.

wage. In a recession, it is irrelevant. It gives the false

:47:07.:47:11.

impression that fewer households are in poverty as their income is seen

:47:12.:47:15.

to rise. A recession leading to less poverty? The figures simply don't

:47:16.:47:21.

add up. It's a discredited system. It did nothing under the previous

:47:22.:47:24.

Government to tackle the underlying root cause of childhood poverty.

:47:25.:47:31.

These amendments, the other, I submit are wrong in effect to try

:47:32.:47:35.

and reinstate that old discredited system. It really is... It beggars

:47:36.:47:43.

belief, I have to say that there are people who believe that we can base

:47:44.:47:47.

our strategy for improving children's life chances on income

:47:48.:47:52.

measures that would suggest the rust recession somehow caused a

:47:53.:47:54.

significant fall in child poverty. Of course we shouldn't. -- the last

:47:55.:48:03.

recession. Yes, of course I'll give way. Of course, that is why it is

:48:04.:48:06.

important to have a package of measures. So we can look at all

:48:07.:48:10.

aspects of how children and their families are living in poverty. Not

:48:11.:48:14.

just the relative low income measure of others such as material

:48:15.:48:17.

deprivation, which is critically important. And indeed material

:48:18.:48:22.

deprivation is one of things that will continue to be measured. It is

:48:23.:48:27.

built there. I'm sure the Minister will rise to her feet and live like

:48:28.:48:31.

this but it is a commitment made to the house that the measure of

:48:32.:48:37.

material deprivation will continue to be given proper publication

:48:38.:48:44.

annually and is part of the official of an as Government statistics. That

:48:45.:48:51.

will continue to be the case. -- ONS. We get the statistics, we get

:48:52.:48:57.

the commitment that those are going to be published annually and

:48:58.:49:04.

enshrined by ONS and this Government. We get what the

:49:05.:49:06.

Government is suggesting in its original bill as passed by the

:49:07.:49:09.

south, we get the further measures of attainment. We get that. We get

:49:10.:49:15.

the best of both worlds. I won't give away because he has had a

:49:16.:49:18.

couple of pints of this particular cherry. Order, order. Can I just say

:49:19.:49:27.

to the honourable gentleman of entry and shots that he has given us his

:49:28.:49:33.

thoughts in 90 minutes and we are gratified. 11 people wanting to seek

:49:34.:49:40.

and she is perfectly OK to drive. The considering of each other. --

:49:41.:49:46.

the honourable gentleman from Airdrie and Shotts. Moving

:49:47.:49:53.

households to want employment is what improve the life chances of

:49:54.:49:56.

younger people in your long term. That is why this Government is so

:49:57.:50:00.

focused on getting parents into work and then getting their children into

:50:01.:50:04.

work to education. We are tackling the cycle of deprivation which has

:50:05.:50:09.

stifled too many children from realising their full potential for

:50:10.:50:14.

too long. And has condemned generation after generation to a

:50:15.:50:17.

life were under achievement and a lack of aspiration become

:50:18.:50:20.

inevitable. What this Government is seeking to do is to fundamentally

:50:21.:50:26.

change that cycle. We are committed to a far more effective approach and

:50:27.:50:31.

that is to tackle the root causes of poverty, issues such as educational

:50:32.:50:37.

attainment and family stability. Work remains the best route out of

:50:38.:50:42.

poverty. I'll educational attainment is the best route into work. That is

:50:43.:50:46.

why the bill, as passed by this house, seeks to introduce those two

:50:47.:50:51.

key measures that we have referenced, namely the proportion of

:50:52.:50:55.

children living in workless household and educational attainment

:50:56.:50:59.

at age 16. These are the factors with the greatest impact on child

:51:00.:51:04.

poverty and new life chances of children. That is why the Government

:51:05.:51:10.

is focusing on them. In conclusion, the amendments from their Lordships

:51:11.:51:15.

suggest a reliance on spurious measures which do nothing to tackle

:51:16.:51:20.

the problems at source. These amendments are misguided and that is

:51:21.:51:26.

why we should not support them in the division that the end of this

:51:27.:51:38.

debate. Thank you. It is a an important debate to take part in and

:51:39.:51:43.

I will try to be quick. I would just like to point out to the member for

:51:44.:51:49.

North Devon that we already tried to measure educational attainment and

:51:50.:51:51.

worklessness. That is not a question. It is what matters. I want

:51:52.:51:58.

go into detail about the spurious measures because I feel quite sure

:51:59.:52:02.

that my friend, the member for Bishop Auckland is about to do that.

:52:03.:52:07.

I will be that to her. I just want to bring this back to the basics and

:52:08.:52:12.

ask what it is the debating today when it comes to transparency child

:52:13.:52:17.

poverty? It is a very simple question about what we in this house

:52:18.:52:23.

believes poverty to be. Should it be defined as a measure of income or as

:52:24.:52:30.

a measure of educational attainment and worklessness? As I have said,

:52:31.:52:33.

these are all things that we already measure in other parts of Government

:52:34.:52:40.

statistical information about what is happening in the country. The

:52:41.:52:44.

question is, what does the law say about what poverty is? I ask myself

:52:45.:52:48.

this question, does how much money you have make you Paul? It seems

:52:49.:52:56.

quite obvious to me, Mr Speaker, that it does -- poor. You could have

:52:57.:53:06.

a parent who is unable to work that many Howard, doesn't have a

:53:07.:53:09.

well-paid job, but you would not suffer from worklessness, you would

:53:10.:53:14.

still be bought. You could be a child achieving great things at

:53:15.:53:18.

school. Getting all your certificate of occasions and still suffer the

:53:19.:53:22.

impacts at home of not having enough money. Plenty of children go to

:53:23.:53:28.

school and work really hard and do well, despite seeing their parents

:53:29.:53:32.

suffer from the stress of trying to pay the mortgage on the rent, not

:53:33.:53:36.

having enough money to put electricity meter to wash their

:53:37.:53:41.

school uniform. That happens to plenty of children. It is not about

:53:42.:53:46.

educational attainment worklessness. This is about the fact that the

:53:47.:53:48.

cause of poverty is not having enough money. Why does this happen?

:53:49.:53:56.

-- why does this matter? Matters because the Tories are going to make

:53:57.:54:00.

people poor. Specifically, they are going to make children ball. Poor

:54:01.:54:07.

Children. We know that because families will be worse off. Many

:54:08.:54:13.

will be in work and their children will be affected, whatever the

:54:14.:54:15.

qualities of their teachers at school, which may be Regent. In this

:54:16.:54:20.

country, we have some fantastic schools. They help children drive,

:54:21.:54:26.

despite poverty at home. The question is this also what shall we

:54:27.:54:31.

do about it? The Government have explained that they don't think

:54:32.:54:34.

money makes a difference to life chances. Why would anyone listen to

:54:35.:54:41.

me? I met Labour politician. That's what I think. There is independent

:54:42.:54:46.

evidence and the Shadow minister, I thought, gave a fantastic speech

:54:47.:54:49.

explaining that. In addition, Judy Stewart and Charis Cooper reviewed

:54:50.:55:00.

whether in, affected children across the country. They found a family

:55:01.:55:04.

income matters. What is the point in having some of the world's finest

:55:05.:55:08.

research as if we do not listen to them? Over 250 replies to Government

:55:09.:55:14.

on this issue, when they had a consultation, we know through an

:55:15.:55:17.

FOIA request that only two of those replies agree with the Government

:55:18.:55:22.

desire to forget about reporting on the income desire. Only a bad

:55:23.:55:28.

majority of people agreed that money matters. In conclusion, I say this

:55:29.:55:34.

issue matters. The awards are right for two reasons. It matters that the

:55:35.:55:38.

principle, it matters because of the evidence. It is possible to be poor

:55:39.:55:50.

and in work. It is possible to be poor and doing well in school. It

:55:51.:55:54.

matters what these pupils lives are like. We must not forget about being

:55:55.:56:03.

transparent any poverty. It is because of ill-health and that is

:56:04.:56:08.

why it matters. On the evidence which says money matters alongside a

:56:09.:56:12.

good education and a healthy life, it says money matters for outcomes.

:56:13.:56:16.

We disadvantage embedded into our country. Let us not say to those who

:56:17.:56:23.

work to hard for too little, you don't count. Let us not save two

:56:24.:56:26.

children doing well at school this by poverty at home, you don't count.

:56:27.:56:31.

Under half of those families and all families and their children, I ask

:56:32.:56:34.

the Government to think again. I'd like to address amendments eight

:56:35.:56:51.

and nine and the question of ESA and the work-related activity group, the

:56:52.:56:53.

group of people who have limited capacity for work. I support the

:56:54.:56:58.

intention of the Government to see more people on ESA to go back into

:56:59.:57:04.

work but this is not happening, with only 1% per month of a group

:57:05.:57:07.

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