Live Urgent Question on Pubs Adjudicator House of Commons

investigation will be updated and they are notifying people where they

have got to so far. Demand today has heavily outstripped supply and we

must now move on. Urgent question. Mr Greg Mulholland. Will the

Minister of State make a comment on the appointment of the pub code

adjudicator? Mr Paul Newby has been appointed. I hope you will be

congratulated on the role and thanks to all those who applied for this

important position. An excellent and very strong field. Mr Newby will

start full-time on May two and has already started work and has been

very helpful with my officials. In making sure we have the pub code up

and running and ready for the house. Paul Newby is a chartered surveyor

with particular expertise in valuation and arbitration. Key

skills of the pub code adjudicator. He has 30 years experience of the

pub trade working with pub company landlords and pub tenants and I

think going to be an excellent adjudicator. That is not a view

shared by tenants groups who have been astonished by this appointment.

Let's be clear, this appointment is of someone who is of our director --

who is a director of a company who derives the vast majority of its

income from the sources it is being required to regulate. In particular

he has acted for Enterprise Inns, Marstons and punch. These companies

are bullying and coercing tenants into signing away their rights to

their pubs and the company is actively involved in selling of

pubs. How can he be trusted to be impartial given that his Surrey for

20 years has been dependent on those he is expected now to a --

adjudicator pun. -- his salary for 20 years. Did he as a director

declare how much of the income of the company he works for has been

derived from the companies he will be adjudicated upon. How can tenants

have any confidence in this appointment? Why has a chartered

surveyor been appointed rather than someone from a legal background or

an independent adjudicator will stop we don't know how great candidates

there were and who made the final decision. This is a very worrying

appointment, once again demonstrates either composite seat with pub:

interest or a lack of understanding of the role. If this appointment is

allowed to stand, this statutory reform will go the same way as the

failed self-regulatory. It is a clueless appointment and it needs to

be properly scrutinised by this house. I have to say, that was a

disgraceful set of slurs and I would appreciate it if the honourable

gentleman would be good enough to listen. Paul Newby was appointed

absolutely in accordance with the usual ways of public appointments

and I take very grave exception to any allegation that either me or

anybody else has acted in anyway in properly or competently. Mr Newby

hasn't just represented pub trade companies but also tenants. He has

30 years of experience, effectively representing both sides. He is an

experienced arbitrator and the great skills he brings to the position are

not only his extensive experience of the pub trade industry but like many

professionals he has the absolute ability to be fair and arbitrate

fairly and the fact that he might be representing somebody does not mean

to say that he is in their pay. He can act independently. Oh no. The

honourable gentleman absolutely doesn't understand how professionals

work and many of ours would take great exception in any event. This

man, honourable members opposite would do better rather than to

hackle about somebody they don't even know. They haven't looked at

his anti-seed and is and I made the announcement only yesterday in this

place at about seven o'clock. I have no doubt that Mr Newby's

considerable experience and abilities to be able to do this job

are first rate and I take great exception at the idea there has been

any impropriety at all. Somebody from a sedentary position said, do

you know him? No, I don't know him. I didn't meet him until... I met him

at the end of the procedure, as this house would expect after he was one

of three names put forward quite properly by a full process which has

been open and fair and I object very strongly on behalf of Mr Newby who

will do this job with propriety and all things will be done properly.

The Minister has behaved absolutely correctly and properly and what

matters is Paul Newby's ability rather than anything else. Would she

agree that he should look at the loophole that allows retailers and

shop owners to buy a pub that requires planning permission but on

the other hand if it reverts back to being a pub in those actually

require planning position. His primary job is to implement and make

sure the pub code is being complied with. When people invoke the pub

code, his job will to be acting as a fey arbitrator. I have no doubt that

he has those skills and experience. -- fair arbitrator. He has had

experience of the pub companies but also tenants so he sees things from

both sides and has all the skills and his appointment was made with

great care and total propriety. The way the Minister announced the

appointment yesterday didn't exactly inspire confidence as part of the

shambolic proceedings that we experienced on the enterprise Bill

on Sunday trading. She announced it in an intervention in the third

reading after the Secretary of State could have mentioned it in his third

reading speech. If nobody had mentioned the pub 's code at third

reading, the announcement wouldn't even have been made then. Turning to

the appointment of Paul Newby, I look forward to meeting him to look

at the concerns raised by the honourable member for Leeds North

West and by the pub 's tenants about the relationship between his current

employers and large pub owning businesses. I don't think tenants

will be at all reassured by what she said and I think the challenge for

Mr Newby will be maintaining a level playing field between tenants and

pub companies. How does she feel he can do this given the concerns

raised by tenants? Somebody who has acted for companies such as Punch

Taverns, Enterprise Inns and Marstons will act on their behalf in

the future. She will be aware of concerns that the adjudicator should

not be a chartered surveyor. Could she tell a house that she will be

pursuing concerns about the attitude of the Royal Institute of chartered

surveyors about Parolo rent assessment? -- parallel rent

assessments. Concerns have been raised in the Lords and here and

will she really raise those concerns with the adjudicator about pub

companies offering shorter leases to make it impractical for the tenants

to take up the market went only option. Will she raise the date for

taking that opportunity up? We saw a shambolic approach to the initial

consultation on the pub 's code which undermined trust from pub

tenants. Back on track, concerns were raised by tenants associations.

I should say to the House that I did advise the principal actors on this

stage that on this occasion, I was really quite insistent that the time

limits be kept. To be fair, the minister was well within her time.

The honourable gentleman exceeded it by a small number of seconds. But he

was closer than he has been in the past! No discourtesy is intended to

the honourable gentleman. I think he has got the thrust of it across. But

we really must from now on stick to the limits because otherwise it is

not fair on backbench members. I think we are very clear what the

honourable gentleman has got to say. Minister. Mr Speaker, we are

confident that the pub code will be in its proper form and it will be

laid at the appropriate time and that it will be up and running by

June the 1st. Yesterday a press release had been prepared for

publication today. I took the opportunity as you know to tell this

House first. I thought that was a courtesy to the House and I thought

the honourable gentleman had a proper interest in pubs and I

thought he might be in some way grateful. But there you go, you live

and learn. I very much welcome the governments action on this issue. As

someone who represents a number of pubs which I have dealt with over

the years, and having problems with the large pubcos that own them. When

appointing the adjudicator, is it not important to have someone who

understands both sides of the argument so that they can adjudicate

fairly between them? Absolutely I agree. Paul Newby is not only a

chartered surveyor locking he has this ability, he is a very

experienced arbitrator, but it is his knowledge from both sides, and I

know that he will be fair. I have complete confidence in him. He is

very good news. We know the pubs adjudicator is effectively classed

as England only, but just like Sunday trading, it could have an

effect in Scotland, because pub companies made direct investment

towards pubs in England and Wales. The Scottish Government... Could the

minister make sure going forward but she takes effect of the possible

effect of the proposals on Scottish pubs? I don't think there was a

question but I am sure we can have a chat about it afterwards and discuss

all these things. Can my honourable friend confirm that this appointment

has been made absolutely on merit, fairly and without interference from

government whatsoever? And the most important thing about this is how

the person does the job and implements the pub code? I am

grateful for his comments. He is absolutely right. It is an insult to

the civil servants and all those who took part in the process, because

they exercised the greatest care in making sure that the very best

candidates were put forward to the final seven and then the next three

before coming to the minister with a recommendation in relation to one. I

take this not personally against me but against my civil servants and

all that team, because this has been done. And he is very good news. He

is fair and he knows what he is talking about. I have a recorded

interest in a pub. I Chair a trust which owns the pub which John Clare

played and sang in. It is not operating at the moment but it will

be. Let's depersonalise this. I work very closely with The Pub Is The

Hub. I do not know this man, I hope he does a good job, but unlike the

supermarket person, I hope this man has teeth to do something about a

vigorous brewing and pub industry in this country. It is all about

getting the balance right. I must take exception about Christine, the

grocery code June eight, who now has exactly the teeth he would like. She

has not held back in her criticism as we saw recently. -- the grocery

code adjudicator. She is doing a great job. In any event, the most

important thing is that it was actually naming and shaming, as the

honourable gentleman will know, that is sometimes the most powerful tool.

But the code adjudicator is just that, an adjudicator to ensure

fairness, and Paul Newby will do that. What involvement if any has

the industry had on both sides in this selection process? I can assure

my Noble Friend that no influence at all. We sought to someone with the

right skills set, someone with experience as an arbitrator and who

understood the trade and had the ability to see things from both

sides. Paul Newby has all those skills and more. As a member of the

business select committee which initiated one of the earlier

inquiries, and Chair of the select committee, the report of which

informed this particular piece of legislation, can I say to the

minister, and I would not wish to prejudge the performance of Paul

Newby, however, I would like to emphasise that there is huge

disquiet amongst the tenants that I think the government, and I would

ask the minister if she would look at that, would review the

performance of the adjudicator after a certain period of time and keep up

a dialogue with the tenants to ensure that their concerns are met.

Otherwise this issue will not go away. I am grateful and I am pleased

he has got an open mind. I think he will be impressed by Paul Newby. He

is absolutely right. If anybody is not performing, then obviously that

is concerning and measures can be taken. I think we also have to say,

there are many tenants throughout England and Wales of pubs and we

have got to be careful to make sure that groups genuinely represent the

voice of all tenants. We must not let a few dominate the debate. It is

important to be fair to both sides and make sure that all those tenant

groups... Which is why I am a great fan of Camra, because I think they

represent a large proportion of tenants. The pub is at the heart of

many communities. I am really hoping that the appointment of Paul Newby

will normalise these relationships and that we do not see, especially

in the case of a pub near me, which suffered under an overbearing pub

company, where you get a new tenants tempted in, running well, but then

the prices escalate until they are forced to closure. And then we see a

planning application for alternative use. I am really hoping this will

normalise those relationships. I could not agree more. It is that

change of culture which is so important. I agree with the

honourable gentleman. We have all had examples in our own

constituency. I have also fought to keep open pubs. I have not been

successful in one instance although I was in another. It is about

changing the atmosphere and making sure that pubcos act in a

responsible manner not just to their tenants but to the broader

community. I understand that the chartered surveyors Institute failed

to respond on rent assessment guidance. Can the minister confirm

how the adjudicator reconciles his position with that of such a

professional bodies which I hear what my honourable friend says. But

I think Paul Newby is going to be his own man. If I may say, as

somebody who was a member of a professional body, the Bar Council

often had a point of view which I personally completely disagreed

with. He is a good man, he will be his own man, he will be fair, and he

comes with a huge skill set. I am rather staggered that the honourable

gentleman the member for Kilmarnock seems to have disappeared from the

Chamber. The question is ongoing! The honourable member is the front

bench spokesman for his party. He should stay for the exchange, he

should not be tunnelling out of the Chamber in the middle of the

exchanges. These courtesies really must be observed. It really want to

do, obviously. Mr Speaker, the appointment brief for this role,

which was issued in July last year, stated that...

CHEERING It is very good that the honourable

gentleman has been pulled back into the Chamber. I want the honourable

member to have his question heard without intervention. The

appointment brief for this role, which was issued in July last year,

stated the appointment would be announced in January. Can my right

honourable friend say why the announcement was delayed by two

months? I think if I am right, and if I am wrong, I will apologise

profusely, but if my memory is correct, it was because Mr Newby had

to serve a period of his contract before he could give notice and so

forth. But actually I believe the decision was made just before

Christmas, but we could not announce it until now because of his

relationship with his employer. That is inexplicable to me! Really

inexplicable. But I am sure that nobody is laughing at the honourable

lady whom I take extremely seriously and I want to hear what she has got

to say. In my constituency, one brewery effectively has a monopoly

with only 30 tied houses. This blocks local producers from selling

to pubs on their doorsteps, and across Wales, more than 100 small

breweries are in a similar position. Could the canonic context of Wales

be considered by the newly -- by the newly appointed pubs adjudicator? I

don't think that is really in his win it. He is really to ensure that

anybody who raises a complaint under the pub code is able to be heard

fairly. But the honourable lady raises an important point. We all

know the huge importance of our pubs to communities. It is also

absolutely the case that they should trade fairly. Can the minister tell

us how many years this initial appointment is for? If it is a short

period of time, there will be understandable concern that the

adjudicator will not want to burn bridges with the pubco industry.

Four years is the answer. Does this appointment by by the principles of

the Committee on Standards in Public Life? Yes. Thank you. Order,

business question, Mr Chris Bryant. Will the Leader of the House give us

the forthcoming business? The Leader of the House. Mr Chris Grayling. Mr

Speaker, can I start by in forming the House that the State Opening of

the next session of Parliament will take place on Wednesday the eighth

info of May.