Browse content similar to 24/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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the view that he wants to ensure that Department implements the | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
welfare reforms we legislate for properly and I am sure he will have | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
heard what we said today. Point of order. I think all of the House, | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
every member, is grateful for the particular messages about security | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
that we have received this week in light of the tragedy, and tragedies, | :00:20. | :00:26. | |
across Europe. But would she inform the House what we backbenchers and | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
other members of this size can feedback any concerns they have in | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
response to that? Is there a formal process or could we invent one? | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
Well, I am grateful for the honourable gentleman for raising | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
such an important matter on the floor of the House and I am sure he | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
is right in saying that all members of the sites will be member for -- | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
will be grateful for the new advice and procedures that we have not only | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
got a projection of members but for the many, many people who work for | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
members both in their size and in a constituency offices. There are | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
various ways in which the honourable gentleman and they other honourable | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
members can feedback or discuss further measures are further advised | :01:12. | :01:19. | |
that may be necessary. One is through the Sergeant at Arms. I am | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
also aware that the Chairman of Ways and Means has spoken in person to | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
many members of the House about this in his capacity as chairman of | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
various committees which deal with the matter. And the honourable | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
gentleman has very cleverly now raised the matter on the floor of | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
the House. It is therefore a matter of record and I am glad that he has | :01:43. | :01:53. | |
done so. Madam Deputy Speaker, following the application this | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
morning from the opposition Chief Whip for elections in Baltimore and | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
Sheffield Brightside, a member of the government benches shouted out | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
any more. It was hugely disrespectful to our late friend and | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
colleague and I seek guidance as to how situation may be addressed. I am | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
quite taken aback by what the honourable lady has said. I was not | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
in the chamber at that point and a soul I have no personal knowledge of | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
it but if indeed any member of this House made a remark like that at a | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
time when the writ was being moved after the death of a member of this | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
House, they simply should not have done so. And if nobody else has told | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
them that they should not have done so, I am telling them now. And I | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
hope that will be taken note of. I am grateful to the honourable lady | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
for reasons such a sensitive matter. Sorry, I will go this way! Madam | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
Deputy Speaker, could you advise me on how I can put on the record my | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
concern that there has been absolute silence from separatist activists | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
about the fact that today was meant to be independent state for them. | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
There has been no reference to this whatsoever in terms of respecting | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
the Scottish electorate. Could you advise me on how to put that on | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
record? Well, I understand the point that the honourable gentleman is | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
making... I understand the point the honourable member is making and I am | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
aware, although I was not in the chair over the last are, that while | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
Mr Speaker was in the chair there honourable members made some very | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
interesting suggestions about how today could be celebrated in future, | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
and I had a feeling that the honourable gentleman's pointers | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
about to be answered by a further point of order from the honourable | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
lady. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am not quite sure where | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
the honourable member was when we were just having business questions, | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
when I specifically made reference. Perhaps that speaks to the fact that | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
members of affairs, particularly those on that side and of the mail | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
fraud, do not listen when women are speaking. How about the start today! | :04:17. | :04:25. | |
-- of the mail fraud. I wish I could correct the honourable lady but the | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
observation that it is often the case that the men did not listen | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
when a female is speaking is indeed the case. But with persistence, we | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
will overcome that. And I am certain I can assure the honourable lady | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
that the chair has heard what she has said and I can assure the | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
honourable gentleman that the matter that he has raised has been properly | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
listened to cure in this House. Further to that point of order, | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
Doctor Julian Lewis. Further to that, can I within the rules of | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
order expressed the hope that during the 23rd will go down as | :05:06. | :05:07. | |
Independence Day for the United Kingdom? -- the 23rd of June. The | :05:08. | :05:15. | |
honourable gentleman knows that is not a matter for the chair and that | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
I would not dream of either encouraging, more forbidding him | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
from expressing that hope over and over again! Madam Deputy Speaker, I | :05:26. | :05:33. | |
raised the point of order on the 9th of February in relation to the | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
government's attitude towards the trade union Bill and Lords' | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
amendments. It got much publicity as discussed the Speaker's reading | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
habits in terms of the Socialist worker. The speaker on the 9th of | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
February advised me to submit a written question to try to get | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
clarity on the worker. Written question to six men in vivo is a | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
named a question submitted by myself on the 11th of debris. I have not | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
had a response. -- in vivo. I was wondering if you could advise me how | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
to get an an answer on behalf of 6 million workers who are trade union | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
members as to what the government's attitude is about the trade union | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
Bill and Amendment? As the honourable gentleman is well aware, | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
and the Speaker will have made clear, that Mr Speaker will have, I | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
am sure, given that advice to the honourable gentleman about putting | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
down a written question because, of course, the answers to questions is | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
not a matter for the chair. But the fact that a question has been | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
submitted and several weeks later has not been answered is a matter | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
which Mr Speaker would... Would most certainly deprecate and I am quite | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
sure that those on the Treasury bench will have heard what the | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
honourable gentleman has said. And that a message will go to the | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
appropriate department that the honourable gentleman should have | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
received an answer. Whether it is the answer that he would like to | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
receive or not is another matter and not one that I can address, but he | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
ought to receive an answer. And I am quite sure that if he does not | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
receive such an answer, in the near future, he will be perfectly | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
justified in raising this matter again on the floor of the House. If | :07:20. | :07:27. | |
there are no more points of order, I thank the deadly to Leader of the | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
House for taking questions this morning and we now, to backbench | :07:32. | :07:44. | |
business, the motion on court closures. | :07:45. | :07:46. | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to move the motion as on the | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
order paper relating to court closures. I am grateful to the | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
backbench business committee for allocating time for this debate. I | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
requested this debate whether the honourable member for Wales and | :07:59. | :08:07. | |
other for -- wet and other members because of the scale of the Court | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
closure programme, which will the 86 chords and tribunal is closed, | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
compounded by the closures during the last parliament, which saw 146 | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
chords cause. Second because of the level of concern expressed by | :08:21. | :08:22. | |
colleagues across the House about the implications of the closure | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
programme for access to justice and the number of flaws within the | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
consultation process which provided the basis for the closure programme. | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
Third, the closures and ends on the last sitting day before February | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
said in a written statement. Adam Deputy Speaker, I feel strongly that | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
both the skill of this closure programme and its implications and | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
simple Asians mean that the resolution have been made in the | :08:50. | :08:51. | |
House and that colleagues should have had the opportunity to raise | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
issues about behalf of their constituents and raise questions | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
about the planned closures and in fact about the time the announcement | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
was made. I am pleased that we will have the opportunity to do this | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
today. Courts have a very wide range of uses. If we consider the | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
hierarchy of Crown Courts, County Courts can't Magistrates' Court, | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
you'd chords, family courts and tribunal, the people who need to be | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
able to access them include jurors, magistrates, victims and witnesses, | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
families in the process of breaking up, a range of public sector staff | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
working directly at the courts, but also bringing cases and acting as | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
witnesses, members of the judiciary and individuals facing trial. It is | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
easy to think of those accessing our courts primarily a suspected | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
criminals but in reality, they are vital public service reaching a very | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
wide range of people in their scope. And it is important that we remember | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
this as we debate this closure programme. I am so grateful for her | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
giving way so early in her speech. Would she agree ascetic areas are to | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
lose their courts as a result of this decision that proper provision | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
needs to be made not least for video conferencing, people living | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
evidence, but also for local newspapers to be able to send a | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
journalist for a particular day? -- if civic courts. Justice has to be | :10:18. | :10:28. | |
seen to be done, as well is actually being done. I will come on to talk | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
in a moment about the role of new technology and other forms of | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
provision in addressing some of the issues presented by the closure | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
programme. I give way. I thank her for giving way, and congratulate her | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
for securing this debate today. All told the court in my constituency | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
will not be causing, it will be taken on the burden from other court | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
closures and buy one of the government's on assessments, people | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
will have to travel over an hour to reach Willesden Magistrates' Court, | :11:05. | :11:06. | |
which I think is a barrier to justice. | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
I thank her for her intervention. That is a very valid set of points | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
about both of the additional burden on courts which will have to absorb | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
the workload of chords that locals but also on travel time, which is a | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
very important issue, particularly for many vulnerable constituents. I | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
will come on to talk about this. I do not have a court or tribunal in | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
my constituency, but my constituents will be very much affected by the | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
planned closure of Lambeth County Court. Almost half of the postcode | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
areas covered fall within my constituency. I am grateful to the | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
Minister for taking the time to meet with me during the competition | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
process and subsequently for taking part in a debate specifically about | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
Lambeth County Court. But Madam Deputy Speaker, despite this | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
engagement, my concerns remain. In justifying the closures, the | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
Minister refers a great deal to the modernisation of the justice system | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
and the use of new technology, but there is great concern that these | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
plans, the closure plans, appear to be putting the cart before the | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
horse. Closing courts and tribunals without a clear plan for replacing | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
the capacity that will be lost with new | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
Speaker, the government should have brought to the House a comprehensive | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
strategy for modernising our courts and tribunals to beat that for the | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
21st century. The plan which sets out clearly what new technology can | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
deliver for our justice system, the investment which needs to be made in | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
order to deliver it and the savings which can be made in physical | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
infrastructure as a consequence of the introduction of new technology. | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
But there is no such plan. What the government has announced is a very | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
significant closure programme, with the promise that after chords and | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
tribunal sub-clause, pilots will take place and investment will be | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
made to introduce new technology. This is a very risky way to treat | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
our justice system. Access to justice is a vital principle in the | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
UK's on written constitution. It was argued chairing the time that Lord | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
Bingham was senior judge of appeal that access to justice is one of the | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
eight sub role that make up the rule of law. He said the best is that | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
means must be provided for resolving that without I have to cost and | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
delay one of ideas several disputes which the parties are unable to | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
resolve themselves. It recognises the right of wannabe did access to a | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
court in the basic right protected by our own domestic law and, in my | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
view, comprised within the principle of the rule of law. | :13:42. | :13:54. | |
Lord Justice laws has said access to the courts is a constitutional | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
right. In relation to the planned courts and tribunal closure | :14:01. | :14:02. | |
programme, the government argued that it effective access to justice | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
does not necessarily mean providing physical access to a building or | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
require us to have a purpose-built court or tribunal in every local | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
area. I contention is that this statement can only possibly be valid | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
if the government can demonstrate that access is provided in a | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
fail-safe way by other means. They simply cannot do this without | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
setting out a clear strategy for how it will be delivered. The Minister | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
has spoken about various things that they be possible, some of which are | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
already happening in some locations. Video links for witnesses to provide | :14:40. | :14:47. | |
evidence, facilities for filing papers online. There is no national | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
standard and no plan for delivery. No assessment has been made of what | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
court and tribunal services and facilities should be available to | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
everyone in every area, which of these can reasonably be provided | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
digitally and which could be provided and dedicated facilities. | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
Let don't think there is much disabilities of the kind of things | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
which might be done and it is impossible to make an assessment of | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
the extent to which access to justice will be a proud -- provided | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
at an appropriate level with digital technology until the government | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
laser the comprehensive plan. In addition to the plan she is we all | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
to me the plan to extend mobile coverage to many areas because in | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
some of the rural areas where we have closures planned we don't have | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
the system in place. He makes are very valuable point which reinforces | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
the argument I am making. A and a plan that is proven and has been | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
tested the government cannot rely on advances in technology to substitute | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
for the closure of physical facilities. I congratulate her on | :15:52. | :15:59. | |
securing this debate. The whole point of a Magistrates' Court system | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
has been to have local people deciding on local crimes and without | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
a proper plan we could see magistrates fundamentally | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
withdrawing from areas with many communities having none whatsoever. | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
He makes an excellent point which is about the long tradition we have in | :16:19. | :16:21. | |
this country about the link between the justice system and the locality | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
that it serves. I would like to turn to some of the specific concerns | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
that have been raised about the consequences of the closures. The | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
first concern is the straightforward issue of physical access to a court | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
building for those who need to attend court either for the court | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
hearings would instigate an administrative procedure such as | :16:43. | :16:44. | |
applying in person for a stay of eviction. The response from the | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
government to the consultation says that 97% of citizens will still be | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
able to reach the required court within 60 minutes by car. This | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
statement is simply not true. The date on which the government's | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
responses based his travel time between court opens, not the travel | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
time from homes to the courts which will the closest. On the basis of | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
this data it is possible that the residents who currently lives within | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
60 minutes of one court that he may not have to travel a further 60 | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
minutes beyond the course to to the nearest court. It is time for the | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
government to undertake and published an analysis of the | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
physical accessibility of courts based on the journey times faced by | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
residents of postcode racers not from quarter court so that the | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
impact of the closures plan can be properly understood and scrutinised. | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
The second problem with the travel time data is that it relies too much | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
on the private car as a mode of transport. Only half of households | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
on low incomes own a car. Many of my constituents who have the attend | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
court in relations to issues such as housing a bit run low incomes and I | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
think the true -- same is true across the country. The response to | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
the consultation does not consider the accessibility to courts by | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
public transport or by bus, which is often the only mode of transport | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
that residents on lower incomes can afford. I have looked at the travel | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
times from part of my constituency from which residents will not have | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
to travel from Lambeth to Wandsworth were some of the services will be | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
provided. Many of my residents will face a journey of at least 60 minute | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
she'd swayed by bus and in the worst-case scenario have four hour | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
round trip. That is in London which has the public transport system in | :18:37. | :18:50. | |
the UK. Journey times mean that some people people will not be able to | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
two travel backwards and forwards to accord in a single day. She makes a | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
very powerful point that will be resident with a lot of the members | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
of villages in my constituency. It says in the library document that | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
the percentage that would be able to reach court by public transport in | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
60 minutes will be 15% in my constituency. This is of great | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
concern to those who have the trauma of having to give evidence in it | :19:21. | :19:31. | |
case of a crime against them. The Law Society has raised serious | :19:32. | :19:33. | |
concerns that longer more expensive journey times will have on the | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
justice system for jurors who are more likely to find justifiable | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
reasons to postpone the service and for the additional cost that Her | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
Majesty is courts and tribunal service will have to pay to | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
compensate jurors. For witnesses, many of whom already take a good | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
deal of persuasion and support in order to attend court and for | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
vulnerable residents who are being taken to court in circumstances | :20:00. | :20:01. | |
where life is already stressful he may find it -- they may find it | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
extremely difficult to make to court and therefore have a fair hearing | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
because they are the person to explain the circumstances. As a | :20:11. | :20:23. | |
magistrate, I can attest to witnesses or sufferers of domestic | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
violence or just people with chaotic lifestyles being completely put off | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
by the extra travel that they will need to access justice. Resolution, | :20:32. | :20:42. | |
which represents 6500 family lawyers and other professionals who are | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
committed to a non-adversarial approach to family law and the | :20:47. | :20:48. | |
resolution of family disputes say that the court closures will have a | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
huge impact on our ability of a family to access justice. They say | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
that the most affected will be the vulnerable. Requiring a victim of | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
domestic abuse to travel further on public transport to apply for an | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
injunction will act as a further disincentive. I would like to | :21:13. | :21:20. | |
highlight three examples from my constituency caseload which | :21:21. | :21:22. | |
illustrate the level of vulnerability of many people who | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
have to access the court system. The first is a man who came to this | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
country as an asylum seeker having been a child soldier in Nigeria. He | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
is doing his utmost to find work and currently has a zero hours | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
contracts. Sometimes his employer has worked for him, sometimes not. | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
This is not within his control. The consequences that he is a | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
fluctuating income which means that intermittently he has apply for J SA | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
and housing benefit. The delays in processing his J SA Lymington | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
sometimes his Housing Benefit is frozen. This causes rent arrears and | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
has been served on occasion. None of this is his fault. He is a man doing | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
everything he can to make the best life in a country he never imagined | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
himself finding himself in. The additional expense and stress to | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
travel a long distance to access court is not something that we | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
should be asking him to bear. Another constituent is recently | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
widowed. Husband was a social housing tenant and in order for her | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
to succeed to the tenancy she needed to provide proof of his death. But | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
there was an administrative mistake with the death certificate which | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
caused a delay which meant that her landlord commenced eviction | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
proceedings. She lives in the furthest flung part of my consistent | :22:43. | :22:49. | |
-- consistency -- constituency in regard to access to court. The third | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
case highlights some of the wider problems with the justice system. | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
The constituent is in his earpiece. He had suffered anti-social | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
behaviour from is upstairs neighbour for many years causing him and his | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
wife great distress and sometimes leading to him is sleeping in his | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
car. His council land or did everything possible to gather | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
evidence and commence eviction proceedings against neighbour. It | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
took months for the case to come to court and when it did the police | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
failed to turn up to give evidence and the case had to be adjourned. | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
This situation would have been compounded even further by a longer | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
journey time or by moving the proceedings to a court which did not | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
have the capacity to absorb additional work. Very often the | :23:36. | :23:38. | |
circumstances which lead to somebody having to attend court involved | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
personal sadness and many people who have to attend court a very | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
vulnerable. Fulfilling the obligation to make a justice system | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
accessible bus involved thinking about the considerable challenges | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
that are most vulnerable residents face and designing a system around | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
these challenges, not around residents who have the most | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
capacity. The closure programme has the potential to have significant | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
hidden costs for the wider public sector and these have not considered | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
or scrutinised at all during the course of the consultation process | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
with the government's response to it. The Law Society is highlighted | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
the additional costs associated with prison and probation staff having to | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
transport offenders longer distances. There may be additional | :24:22. | :24:29. | |
transportation costs for the police. There will be increased costs for | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
councils as social workers and housing officers are forced to | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
travel longer distances and spend more time away from the day-to-day | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
duties in order to provide evidence in court. There are already | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
frustration within the justice system. Many lawyers I have spoken | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
to who work in London pride the experience of using the Central | :24:51. | :24:52. | |
London County Court since it moved to shed premises with the Royal | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
Courts of Justice. They describe accord which is completely | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
overwhelmed with the volume of work, such that is beginning to resemble | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
the Chancery Court in bleak house. The loss of piety and others have | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
raised concerns about the impact of the closure programme on court staff | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
in a context where they are -- where there are already frustrations about | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
administrative problems and delays. These problems would be made worse | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
if the scorcher plumed and workloads transferred to other courts that are | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
already operating at high capacity. Many magistrates forgot the work is | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
a very local form of public service. There is a strong connection between | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
the community they know and their role in ensuring justice for the | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
community. There are serious concerns that having farty records | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
requiring some magistrate should travel long distances and ordered to | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
serve breaks the strong tradition we have in this country of justice | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
system which is rooted in the individual spatial it serves. There | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
is potentially a significant impact on many solicitor schemes. Concerns | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
have been raised to be about the sustainability of many duty | :26:05. | :26:06. | |
solicitor schemes that have already been stretch to the limit by cuts in | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
legal aid. Certainly, the solicitors who work in my local area have said | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
that many of them would be forced to give up duty solicitor work if they | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
have to travel further to attend court, such as the marginal | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
viability of the scheme already. Finally, I want to turn to the | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
detail of the closure proposals and to highlight just a few of the ways | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
in which I believe the closure programme to be flawed. The proposal | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
to close Birmingham youth court would have a very significant impact | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
on young defendants who would then have two appear in an adult court in | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
breach of the government's statutory and international obligations. I | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
wonder how this proposal was ever brought forward and why these issues | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
were not anticipated underdressed. The proposal to close our brand-new | :26:53. | :26:59. | |
fit for purpose court in Rotherham, which contains three different | :27:00. | :27:08. | |
courts at a time and in a time when child protection issues are at the | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
forefront of everybody's mind is quite simply very difficult to | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
comprehend. In this tour, the proposed closure of the court in | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
auroral area with very bad public transport services at a time in | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
which the local population is about to expand significantly due to the | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
designation of it as a garden time by the government is simply | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
short-term missed. In my local area, the closure of Lambeth County Court | :27:33. | :27:39. | |
is problematic. It is leased to the courts and tribunals service with | :27:40. | :27:41. | |
nine years left to run on the lease. As such, there was no large capital | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
sum to be derived from the sale of the site. The lawyer that I have | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
spoken to who use it said that it functions extremely well as a | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
specialist housing court. I appreciate that as a consequence of | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
the representations that I am others made during the consultation | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
process, housing possessions hearings will not my move six miles | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
away but to Camberwell, which is much closer and this is welcome | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
news. There remain concerned about the victims of domestic violence who | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
will still have to travel to Wandsworth, and about the way the | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
move to Camberwell will actually work in practice. There is time | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
within the current lease to make a proper plan for Lambeth, to work out | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
the role that new technology can play in making our justice system | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
more accessible, to work at the physical space that is necessary to | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
accommodate an efficient court and to plan property for the transition. | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
There is no evidence in the closure programme that any detailed | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
feasibility work has been undertaken to explore lower-cost ways of | :28:41. | :28:42. | |
accommodating court services locally. | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
Although search options are mentioned, they should have been | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
explained in detail before the closure programme was finalised. The | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
accessibility of our justice system and the way in which your dreams are | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
most vulnerable residents is a mark of our civilisation. Too many people | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
across the country have raised concerns that the Government's | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
proposed closures will have an unacceptable impact on vulnerable TD | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
-- people, will present additional costs to the other parts of the | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
public sector which have not been accounted for and will make our | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
justice system less accessible. I accept new technology may have a | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
role to play in creating a justice system which has picked the purpose | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
for the 21st-century as well as saving costs but we have no plan for | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
the Government as to how this will be achieved. I am urging the | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
Government to rethink their approach and to come back to the House with a | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
plan which addresses the concerns which have been raised and balances | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
savings is to be made from the fiscal quarter state with investment | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
in technology to mitigate the impact. The question is as on the | :29:53. | :30:01. | |
order paper. The proposals to closed courthouses across the country, they | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
identified the court in Buxton for closure. Is that became apparent, | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
this is the fourth time I have spoken to this -- to address this. I | :30:15. | :30:22. | |
had been comments made about the timings but I have to say from my | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
experience, the Minister is exemplary in his transparency and | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
consideration of individual members. He has met with me on several | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
occasions and we have had a Westminster Hall debate on Buxton | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
and my honourable friend from Burton had a similar one. We have had a | :30:45. | :30:51. | |
fair run at this. I was opposed to the closures in Buxton, particularly | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
as the fact that the alternative was to send everybody to Chesterfield | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
because it was in Derbyshire. For those in the Chamber you want the | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
geography of Derbyshire and the High Peak, clue is in the name. Getting | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
from Buxton to Chesterfield is not easy and I was in the constituency a | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
couple of weeks ago and Buxton had about six or seven inches of snow in | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
a day. Our people would have got to Chesterfield in that situation would | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
have been impossible. I got stuck in Bamford bit isn't as Forest | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
Chesterfield. I was concerned about this and I thought it was wrong and | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
said so at the time. The consultation document itself, I had | :31:35. | :31:43. | |
much of this recounting what has happened. It is important for some | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
context on it. The consultation document on research -- relates to | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
Buxton. It was the worst consultation document I had seen in | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
many a year both as a member of this house and a member of my local | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
council. It was riddled with errors, falsehood and mistakes. There was | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
discussion and I used some phraseology that you shouldn't use | :32:06. | :32:08. | |
as a member of Parliament because I just thought it was so woeful. After | :32:09. | :32:15. | |
discussion, they admitted there were some mistakes in this document but | :32:16. | :32:24. | |
they pursued the same endgame. The decision has been made to close | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
Buxton. I do regret that decision but the decision has been made and I | :32:29. | :32:31. | |
don't think we can revisit that decision here today. However, at the | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
time, with discussions I had come the issue of Chesterfield, I was | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
looking at the compromise and heretics is the art of compromise. I | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
was pleased or reluctant to accept... I cannot the decision but | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
I will accept the decision because following discussions with the | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
minister, the minister did listen to what I said and the points I made | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
regarding communication, sorry, commuting to each -- Chesterfield. | :33:05. | :33:19. | |
The decision was taken to keep Stockport and Stockport is a | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
separate county but it is a lot easier to get to from the High Peak | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
and Macclesfield where they faced with a similar challenge. I am | :33:32. | :33:38. | |
concerned... I give way. Interesting hearing the tale that they on the | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
mall member is saying. I accept what he says but the proposals are put to | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
him, they are dismissing what logical proposals for Durham which | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
would make it easier for my constituents to travel and it has | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
been ignored completely. Whether he has more power over the Minister, I | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
am not sure. I will respond to that without sounding pig-headed. I can't | :34:03. | :34:11. | |
comment why. I don't know the ins and outs of Durham but I have felt | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
that I put forward a coherent argument. To be fair... I am | :34:16. | :34:22. | |
grateful. He is making a passionate speech but I want to put on the | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
record that if people look at the closures and those courts that have | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
been left open or whether a change is made, it has been across the | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
benches and it is not exclusive that they are giving preferential | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
treatment to those on their the debate, she is not from my | :34:40. | :34:50. | |
benches. I listened to her proposals. Proposals were changed | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
and my honourable friend will know Stockport is held by a Labour | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
member. The point I made was not to close Buxton and it has been closed. | :35:03. | :35:11. | |
I didn't get a partial, sorry, complete success. In the response to | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
the consultation, the decision says and I will quote, move the work load | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
to Chesterfield justice Centre and Stockport magistrates and County | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
Courts. I have a concern and that is how much is going to wear. That is | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
something I want to flag up today. I don't want the odd case going to | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
Stockport to placate one awkward member of Parliament. I want to | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
raise the response to the proposals and the consultation. I have a | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
judgment over this because of my views of the way the consultation is | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
done and I now look at the response to the consultation and yet again I | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
just think there is a hidden agenda that the officials are letting the | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
Minister down. This serious flaws in the response, the response document | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
I have here, I will give you an example. It nowhere in this response | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
carries the comments made by High Peak Borough Council. They have 43 | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
members from across the political spectrum, all electrodes and they | :36:11. | :36:18. | |
discussed this at council will stop -- all elected. That representation | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
is not referred to anywhere in the official response to the | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
consultation. To me it seems as though the officials didn't like | :36:28. | :36:29. | |
what the council said so they didn't put it in. They have either ignored | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
it or treated it with disdain. In a time when across political parties | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
we are seeking people to stand for public office at councils and | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
councillors go to meetings, they make their opinions well known and | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
then they are ignored. It does increase the lingo, what is the | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
point? I may be cynical but were they not mention is because they | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
didn't fit with what home they wanted. The decision has been made | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
and it will be implemented. The closure of Buxton Court and the | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
official documents is in marked and scheduled to take place as we are | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
speaking today between February and June this year. I am told that | :37:15. | :37:22. | |
because the argument was given that we can't move it out to Stockport | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
because stop 40s in Cheshire, it goes across counties, these | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
discussions we have had. -- because Stockport is in Cheshire. If they | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
were to send out of county, there is some administrative actions that had | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
to take place. I am urging that they take place. I am not standing to be | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
part of the Minister's fan club but he has been fair with me. I am | :37:53. | :38:01. | |
talking about public money. This is why I have said they should keep | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
Buxton open. I am concerned the Minister has been let down by his | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
officials here. They were let down because the consultation was flawed | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
and wrong. He has been let down because what I felt was arrogance | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
and a willingness to accept the mistakes, now we look at the | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
response document and that is highly selective. I feel they are letting | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
him down again. I have doubts of their motivation. The Courts service | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
have been given a decision they don't want and from where I am | :38:32. | :38:38. | |
sitting, I may be cynical, they seem to be implementing the decisions | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
that the Minister has made. While this delay is there, given the | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
courts are due to close imminently, the work has to go to Chesterfield | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
which is what the service wanted. That was their intention and the | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
longer that goes on, the harder it will become in my view to implement | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
the Minister's decision to stand it to Stockport. That is what I am | :39:00. | :39:07. | |
concerned about. It is through his determination, contrary to what has | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
been said, his willingness to listen to honourable members and to listen | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
to me on this occasion to move work to Stockport. I applaud him for it. | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
Not sending everything to Chesterfield but to Stockport, that | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
is what we want. From the outside looking in, it appears to be the | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
officials wanted it their own way. I thank the Minister for being willing | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
to assess alternative potential options. Including talking to my | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
council but in criticising the officials for failure to include, | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
are you not questioning the Minister's ability to oversee the | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
department? Not at all because he has done that making the decisions | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
he has made. The officials want of Buxton close and everything shipped | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
over to Chesterfield. I want to Buxton opened but the compromise | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
from the Chamber and Westminster Hall. It strikes me and I may be | :40:09. | :40:19. | |
wrong, but the officials wanted it a certain way and they didn't get it | :40:20. | :40:27. | |
and buy tardiness, they showing -- they are showing another way of | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
getting it. All I would ask today is that the decision has been made and | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
we have had debates today -- before. It is still a good debate to have | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
and we are the Thursday before the Easter recess and there is a good | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
attendance. I would ask for him to do three things. He will look at | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
this issue with a matter of urgency to see if there is any more | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
administrative work that needs to be done that can ensure that the | :40:58. | :41:04. | |
decision he made to move the work and the vast majority of work, not | :41:05. | :41:12. | |
just an odd case to make me happy, he can make sure if there is any | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
administrative work that it will be done quickly for the peace of mind | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
of my constituents and the magistrates and in the whole of this | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
we need to remember the magistrates who do valuable public service for | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
very little recompense. I know if it did go to Chesterfield we may lose | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
magistrates from the bench. If that has to be going -- done, can we do | :41:34. | :41:44. | |
it? By sending work to Stockport, we have to pay of tension to the work | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
of the officials. I hate to be critical but they seem to be | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
following a different agenda from the one that the Minister wanted and | :41:54. | :42:01. | |
one that other people wanted. If you could give reassurances in his | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
closing remarks, I will be very grateful. Like the member for High | :42:07. | :42:14. | |
Peak, I commend the member for Dulwich and West Norwood that | :42:15. | :42:16. | |
calling this debate. I also have to say I agree with the member for High | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
Peak that this was a flawed consultation and a flawed decision, | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
particularly in relation to the Bridgend Magistrates' Court and law | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
courts which housed a state-of-the-art court and facility | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
and which the public purse had invested hundreds of thousands of | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
pounds in modernisation and renovation will stop all to be just | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
thrown away. Following the closure, the court civil family and tribunal | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
work will go to told Chester and the magistrates work will go to Cardiff | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
and the Vale Court. This local example will destroy the appalling | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
consequences of the Government's irresponsible decision to close 86 | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
courts and tribunal 's across England and Wales as well as a total | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
failure to understand the geography of Wales. There was no surprise | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
there as my honourable friend has said in front of me, but | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
realistically in South Wales you have the opportunity of moving north | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
or south to get onto the M4and then you can travel east or west. Until | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
you reach the M4, you have very few chances of moving east or west. The | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
movement of these courts is going to have huge problems in relation to | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
people's capacity to reach these new venues. | :43:36. | :43:43. | |
Would my honourable friend also agree that in measures which have | :43:44. | :43:50. | |
been taken, is that everyone has access to a private car,, they take | :43:51. | :44:02. | |
no account of the time it would take to get to court using public | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
transport. I thank my honourable friend for that intervention, he | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
makes the most valuable point. Yet again this is a government which | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
fails to recognise the needs of the poor and disadvantaged, particularly | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
those who are victims of crime and witnesses to crime and their | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
capacity to access the justice system. By car the journey from | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
Bridgend to Cardiff can take an hour. Parking is a nightmare at many | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
times of the day and is very expensive. Port Talbot Justice | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
Centre is just under 15 miles away, depending where you are in my | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
constituency it takes a minimum of 30 minutes by car. For those people | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
on low income, who disproportionately depend on court | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
and Tribunal services access to the sites are going to be more timely | :44:54. | :45:00. | |
and more expensive. Car ownership in poor communities in Wales is | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
particularly low. Two thirds and I hope the minister is listening to | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
this, two thirds of those of working age benefits do not have access to a | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
car. The majority of people travelling from the agenda to | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
Cardiff or Port Talbot to access services will depend on expensive | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
public transport links. The timetables of which are a nightmare. | :45:25. | :45:31. | |
If you have to be in court by 9am, 10am, you have childcare | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
commitments, caring commitments, you have a disability, or god forbid you | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
miss the bus. Or indeed the bus does not turn up. The best journey from | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
rural areas in my constituency to Cardiff is indirect and can take | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
over two hours if you're trying to travel to a court and that is before | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
you get to the bus station in Cardiff which is some considerable | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
distance from the court. They need to travel such long distances on a | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
regular basis will disrupt the work of my local police service, my | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
probationary rehabilitation and child protection officers and | :46:09. | :46:10. | |
inconvenience many local groups who offer services to those needing help | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
in the court system, including witnesses. I think we ought to be | :46:15. | :46:26. | |
looking for more at protecting witnesses and helping witnesses. It | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
is one thing to say you don't mind inconveniencing someone who has | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
still not been found guilty, or who is attending court because of their | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
need to support the criminal justice service. We have to make sure that | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
it is easy for people to come forward to be witnesses and it does | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
not build an additional burden into their daily lives. It's going to be | :46:49. | :46:55. | |
expensive, burdensome to secure transport for defendants from | :46:56. | :47:05. | |
custody and the brand-new state-of-the-art INAUDIBLE | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
Built in Bridgend. The police will spend hours transporting people up | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
and down the M4 when they could have accesses the local court in | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
Bridgend. Park prison in Bridgend will have to transport prisoners up | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
and down the M4 instead of straight down the ten minute journey into the | :47:21. | :47:28. | |
centre Bridgend. The transport costs are going to be absolutely | :47:29. | :47:31. | |
ridiculous and it's going to transport, the Ministry of Justice | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
is transporting the cost from its own budget to another budget. The | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
integrity of the British justice system is at stake here. It evolved | :47:44. | :47:49. | |
over the centuries and has remained remarkably sensitive to instinctive | :47:50. | :47:51. | |
formulations and priorities of local communities. The close proximity of | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
the magistrate system to people's daily lives is at the root of the | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
lip authority of the system. No attempt seems to have been made to | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
ascertain if magistrates in Bridgend will continue to serve in their | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
posts. When closures go ahead. I have to tell the Minister, local | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
magistrates have contacted me and said they don't think they will be | :48:18. | :48:23. | |
able to carry on. Because of health, because of work commitments and | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
because of family issues. The additional travelling time and the | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
additional commitment in hours of work is going to make it impossible | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
for many of them to continue. I think that is a huge loss and a huge | :48:36. | :48:42. | |
loss to the local communities sense of engagement in the criminal | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
justice system and the civil justice system. The quality of justice as it | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
is administered and implement it in local communities is also threatened | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
by the decision because the additional caseloads of both | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
Bridgend and Caerphilly will push Cardiff court 's capacity to the | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
limit. The closure could lead to a heavy reliance on electronic | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
medication. I know some people see elegant medication as the way | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
forward. Again I have to say they don't live in Wales -- some people | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
see electronic communication as the way forward. Broadband communication | :49:18. | :49:26. | |
is an nightmare. I live on the coast and I have to tell you my escape | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
communication is not good, often throughout the day with 180 degrees | :49:30. | :49:37. | |
of the sea in front of us, broadband communication is not at its best. | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
This technology is untested, unreliable and their use in court | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
challenges the important usable of our justice system, the right to | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
fair trial and the right to face your accusers. Clear integrity | :49:53. | :50:04. | |
shouldn't is integral and there is no substitute for face-to-face | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
dialogue. -- clear communications are integral. The Law Society for | :50:10. | :50:17. | |
England and Wales has registered serious concerns about the use of | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
video link technology in magistrate court trials. Magistrates have also | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
voiced concerns that it would be difficult for a judge to maintain | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
order in the court if defendants and witnesses are not present in person. | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
There are also doubts about whether the broadband connection in Bridgend | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
is of sufficient quality to sustain a video link. I fear that some of my | :50:39. | :50:45. | |
constituents of the cheapest and simplest option will be to plead | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
guilty rather than face the difficulties of navigating the | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
complexities, the local transport and electronic communication systems | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
and to face the disruption in their daily lives and the disruption of | :51:01. | :51:03. | |
their family lives and commitments to actually travel. I feel many | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
people will, when witnessing a crime, say I don't know if I want to | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
come forward as a witness if it means I have the additional time and | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
cost burden as a witness. But courts alone deliver justice. Orbiting | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
courts are networks of organisations which provide integrated probation, | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
rehabilitation and victim support services. Before the trial opens | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
they do the hard work of preparing people who are unfamiliar with the | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
courts system to stand as witnesses or as defendants. After the case is | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
closed they help to translate and implement rulings and to monitor the | :51:46. | :51:53. | |
impact. The key to their success is the local knowledge and the close | :51:54. | :51:57. | |
working relationship they have with other service providers. Removing | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
courts from communities will fragment and weaken these complex | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
and closely knit networks with serious implications for the quality | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
of local justice and the cohesion and safety of local communities. I | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
also have to say I have great concerns about the serious impact on | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
my local solicitors firms. Bridgend law courts and the whole network of | :52:20. | :52:26. | |
chords in Bridgend is often the reason the based in my constituency | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
and I fear many will close, reducing access to legal advice for many | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
people living across my constituency. The town will also | :52:38. | :52:42. | |
lose many high-paid, skilled and well-paid jobs and the courts bring | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
people from the surrounding area into the town. The closure will | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
affect the retail service sector of the local community and contribute | :52:52. | :53:02. | |
to the degree and immigration -- degradation of the town centre. It | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
will destabilise the community and undermine local confidence in the | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
justice system for a generation. The decision reflects the priorities of | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
the Department which is isolated in Westminster, fails to take into | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
account the geographic and social mix of Wales. There is little | :53:20. | :53:25. | |
understanding of local communities and how they work and it will erode | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
public trust in our legal and political institutions. I urge the | :53:31. | :53:34. | |
Minister to reverse this decision in relation to Bridgend. I am sure it | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
is not too late and I hope he has been listening. Thank you. I | :53:39. | :53:47. | |
congratulate the honourable member for securing this debate and we have | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
had powerful speech is already on the matter. I can say I don't rise | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
to raise any constituency point, I am glad to say that the excellent | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
Magistrates' Court we have in Bromley continues in operation and | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
is busy. But I am concerned as chair of the justice select committee | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
about the issue because it's a matter that has been raised in our | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
discussions both in this Parliament and the previous one on number of | :54:14. | :54:22. | |
occasions. It raises its head when we look at other important issues | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
which I will come to. To give burners to the minister who I must | :54:28. | :54:30. | |
say I have always found to be the model of courtesy and openness in | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
his dealings with me and the select committee, there is a balance which | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
has to be struck. There have been court closures throughout most of my | :54:40. | :54:46. | |
life as a practising lawyer and then as a member of Parliament. As a | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
young barrister I cut my teeth going to courts in villages in Essex where | :54:51. | :54:57. | |
you had caught sitting perhaps once a month -- had courts sitting. I | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
cannot say at the end of the day the quality of justice was permanently | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
and wholly undermined by their closures. Let me make this point and | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
then I will come on. The point I will make is you do have to get a | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
sense of balance and I think that is the point the honourable member is | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
about to make and later on will say something I agree with them. I am | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
certain that will be the case but he's quite right, in the last | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
parliament there was a big review of courts and some court closures and | :55:30. | :55:32. | |
the ones in my constituency we were told by the government at that time | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
that they were needed in the community. Nothing has changed. It | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
is just the government attitude which has changed, when it comes to | :55:42. | :55:44. | |
local justice nothing has changed at all. I understand the point being | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
made about particularly rule areas but I must say in fairness that | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
there have been programmes of court closures under Labour governments | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
just as much as under Conservative governments so this is not an issue | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
where any one party can claim advantage or suggest they are more | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
or less committed to the very fair point he makes about access to | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
justice. There is the issue about balancing up what is largely a | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
centrally funded service with local needs and I think that is what we | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
need to deal with and that is the issue which is particularly been | :56:19. | :56:21. | |
raised with us in the Justice select committee. Also there to say that he | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
is quite right when he refers to the comments of Lord Bingham of Cornhill | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
and his book is something that ought to be compulsory reading for pretty | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
much every member of either house here. It is remarkably concise even | :56:37. | :56:43. | |
though it is written by a distinguished lawyer. But it is | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
worth bearing in mind that the common law doctrine of accessibility | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
was drawn up at a time when actually there were far fewer courts and | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
distances between them were in fact much greater and public transport | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
virtually nonexistent and journeys much longer. Everything has to be | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
put into context and is not an absolute, it is getting the balance | :57:05. | :57:06. | |
right number of honourable members are | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
raising. There were caught closure programmes under Labour governments | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
and the most recent set were those part of the argument has been the | :57:18. | :57:32. | |
needs and the pressure on public finances to get maximum value for | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
money which is understandable. It is also understandable there has been a | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
decline in the utilisation of courts because there has been a reduction | :57:42. | :57:49. | |
in crime, something in the order of 43% I am told of utilisation across | :57:50. | :57:56. | |
the Magistrate Court estate. Some of the Magistrate Courts I can remember | :57:57. | :58:03. | |
where in poor condition, old, ill-equipped, did not have the | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
facilities to deal with the separation of witnesses, victims, | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
legal advertisers that we would wish to see. Not all closures are bad and | :58:13. | :58:20. | |
there has to be a process of renewal and sometimes of consolidation. What | :58:21. | :58:21. | |
did concern... I will once. I am sorry to intervene but the | :58:22. | :58:33. | |
point I was making once we have spent hundreds of thousands of | :58:34. | :58:43. | |
pounds in Bridgend on making it making it viable for the future. I | :58:44. | :58:54. | |
will not go into individual cases. What is important is this. In | :58:55. | :59:02. | |
October of 2015 on the back of that 2010/14 closure problem, we had | :59:03. | :59:14. | |
evidence from that. There were the reform programmes undertaken in the | :59:15. | :59:19. | |
first Parliament. We're asked what progress had been made... We asked | :59:20. | :59:38. | |
about what fro Gress -- what progress. It is worse when it | :59:39. | :59:49. | |
happens here but we will allow the gentleman to continue. It is worse | :59:50. | :59:57. | |
anyway and that is the honest truth. There is some important information | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
that we got. We wanted to find out what progress had been made in | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
selling off the courts that had been closed as part of the programme and | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
we were told that at that time of October last year, ten court | :00:11. | :00:17. | |
buildings remains -- remain unsolved. It would be helpful if the | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
Minister can update the House as to what the current position is in | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
relation to those. If courts are to be closed, it is important since one | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
of the prime arguments is the need to make value for money and they | :00:29. | :00:35. | |
should be disposed of in a timely manner. There is no virtue in | :00:36. | :00:42. | |
continuing to expend money on moth malt -- on mothballing unused | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
buildings. I have the Minister will be able to help. There is the point | :00:46. | :00:54. | |
and I agree about this. The issue of physical proximity and journey times | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
is not something that is purely unique to rural areas where we had | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
previous court closures and amalgamation programmes in London | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
under the previous Government. I was making a point to make a journey in | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
peak time from south-east London to Wells Street where family work was | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
centralised was probably going to take an hour and a half on any view. | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
If you are dealing with care cases and family cases, people in a | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
vulnerable state, that was an unfair burden. The issue of longer travel | :01:29. | :01:41. | |
times has been raised with us. In particular in relation to our | :01:42. | :01:43. | |
inquiry which we are undertaking into the role of the magistracy. The | :01:44. | :01:51. | |
point there is this. There is a balance to be struck between | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
efficiency of the system and localness of justice. We recently | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
had evidence from the National bench chairman's Forum. It is the | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
representative body of the chairs of benches. They did express concern | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
about this. There was a representative in North Wales who | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
made the same point that the honourable men but has made about | :02:18. | :02:25. | |
the difficulty of getting mobile coverage in very rural areas. -- -- | :02:26. | :02:34. | |
honourable member has made. If you are going to amalgamate courts in | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
that area it is important to get the technology right and in place first | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
so it can be done. The other point that is a matter of concern was | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
raised by magistrates in written evidence. It was that the worry that | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
there would be a concentration of courts in more urban areas in the | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
towns and there will be a temptation for magistrates to be drawn from | :03:00. | :03:08. | |
those urban areas. It could lead to under representation of rural areas | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
on the benches. That is a legitimate point that has been raised with us | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
by magistrates themselves. There is also a point made that we need to | :03:18. | :03:25. | |
bear in mind that larger benches and some benches are going up to 1000 | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
magistrates also commonplace much greater burdens upon the chair of | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
the bench and we have to think about what support can be given to those | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
chairing large fences with considerable workloads in the | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
Ministry matters that were not previously envisaged. Important | :03:42. | :03:50. | |
areas it is relevant. From the evidence we heard, the senior | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
judiciary are much more positive about the opportunities that arise | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
from using digital and modern technology. That can be a means of | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
alleviating some of the pressures that arise from court processes. The | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
Lord Chief Justice gave evidence to us about digitisation in the core | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
service on the 23rd of February and he praised the approach that Her | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
Majesty's courts and tribunal's service were building their digital | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
cases to unit by unit rather than non-monolithic single contract. It | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
is right to give praise where that is due but he was alert to the issue | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
of digital exclusion needing to be dealt with as we take this forward. | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
We have heard evidence from some of the senior judiciary on this point. | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
The master, Lord Dyson, was recognising there is value to be had | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
in my tea being used to overcome the access to court issues also made the | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
point that the Government track record is not exactly shiny. The | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
President of the family division was pointing out that the real | :05:03. | :05:04. | |
opportunities for reducing the burden is on a difficult time of | :05:05. | :05:11. | |
their life dealing with the digitised divorce service was also | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
concerned that there should be proper grow -- proper progress. He | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
was disappointed with the progress so far. There were also reservations | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
about the capacity of the department to deliver the modernisation | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
programme. That is the point I wanted to make because I have been | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
concerned that a lot of senior practitioners in the field say we | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
don't have a problem with the modernisation programme, we | :05:41. | :05:48. | |
recognise their rationale for stage rationalisation and a great move to | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
digitalisation and video conferencing and so on but there is | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
a concern as to whether the Ministry of Justice itself or Her Majesty 's | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
Courts and tribunal service actually have the capacity, the technical | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
capacity and professional capacity to deliver on those issues. That | :06:06. | :06:13. | |
concerns me as much as in relation to the digitisation programme. There | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
is in east London a very good family Law centre, part of the family Court | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
we have at Canary Wharf. It is working well and opened in December | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
of 2014. But it was delayed and one of the concerns has become apparent | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
and that is part of that delay was that the estates manager is dealing | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
with this in hats spend the better part of a year pursuing a particular | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
site in the Canary Wharf area which was never realistically available at | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
our acceptable rent or upon acceptable terms. The commercial | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
property operators that they were dealing with were perfectly | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
understandably running rings around them and very often Government | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
departments and agencies do not have the level of direct commercial | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
expertise in tough hard money negotiations that they are going to | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
need to do to deliver this court's rationalisation disposal and renewal | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
programme. I have the Minister will say what can be done about what has | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
been done to strengthen it -- the expertise and many fear it that | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
managerial expertise available to Government. This needn't be an house | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
and there can be circumstances where it is proper to buy enough ice from | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
their legal and property sector to make sure that Government gets the | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
best possible deal and that these changes are made in a timely manner. | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
A final point I was going to raise was there is opportunity recognised | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
by the magistrates and judiciary when they had given evidence to us, | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
to overcome some of the loss of local connection which are | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
legitimate and genuine concerns by making use of satellite courts from | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
the main court to hear cases which can be tried with perhaps less | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
requirement for Security than those that remain at Magistrates' Court. | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
They can be done in a temporary building for a civic centre or other | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
public building closer to where the offence itself has been committed. I | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
can think of circumstances where it would be difficult to make use of | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
the town Hall, Civic Centre, some other building. Intelligent | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
listening which can be done can make sure you don't have those cases | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
which are likely to have custody requirements or where large numbers | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
of witnesses are there. If you have something that is a summary only | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
offence, the witnesses are likely to be local and you then have support | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
to the bench itself and can get magistrates format locality setting | :08:55. | :09:02. | |
as well. We have also suggested to the magistrates that perhaps we | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
should look at some of the learning that they -- there is in the local | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
Government world. Some magistrates are servicing rollable divisions and | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
are not dissimilar to those of district councillors in rural areas. | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
Some local authorities have done more online decision-making and | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
trying to find means of having delegated local area committees and | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
so on. There is experience in other areas that the judicial world can | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
learn from and I would urge the Minister to encourage both his | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
department but also those in the judiciary and magistrates themselves | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
to take that on board. The same can be done for the legal profession | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
also. We have had the same representations as other members | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
have referred to. There is scope for sensible co-working between lawyers | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
to achieve some of those issues. I am grateful for your indulgence and | :10:00. | :10:08. | |
forgiveness. I hope those thoughts that seems to have struck a chord | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
across the board amongst members of the select Committee something the | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
Minister will be able to respond to when he applies to what is a very | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
important debate. Can I begin by saying what a pleasure it is to | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
follow on from such thoughtful speeches from everybody. I would | :10:26. | :10:34. | |
like to congratulate the honourable members the Dulwich and West Norwood | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
for securing this debate. Wakefield Magistrates' Court is one of the 86 | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
courts and tribunal hearing centres affected by this latest round of | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
closures. That is nearly one fifth of the total Court estate and it is | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
a cut of 20% in our access to local justice. Wakefield's court is a | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
vital resource that provides access to justice for people in Wakefield | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
and its closure will undermine that access. It is also part of the | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
series of changes to the justice system since 2010 which have perhaps | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
been stop, start and stop they have seen a series of changes in the last | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
month. We have seen from the Justice Secretary bistro there scrapping | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
of... The scrapping of court charges and up to ?1200 on defendants | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
pleading guilty. I welcome the Justice Secretary's latest U-turn to | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
reverse the imposition of the legal aid contracts which would have | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
harmed access to legal aid in my constituency and across the country | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
in January. Only after 99 legal challenges and a judicial review. I | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
want to say a bit more about legal aid later in my remarks. In | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
September this year, I launched a public petition opposing the closure | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
of wakeful court and it has been signed by hundreds of people. The | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
court closure is the latest threat to Wakefield city centre because it | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
is coming alongside the announcement by the Post Office that they are | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
proposing that Wakefield. You should be run as a franchise. That will | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
affect the whole city centre of Wakefield because of that closes and | :12:19. | :12:27. | |
goes into WH Smith or other shopping centres, the shoppers will not be | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
drawn to the high street and it has a huge knock-on effect on the city | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
centre economy as does the fact that we won't have police officers, | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
council offices and lawyers going out in the city centre at lunchtime | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
and buying a delicious damage from one of the many shops which we are | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
proud to have in our city centre. There is cross-party concern about | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
these closures. I think it is important that justice is not just | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
done but seem to be done and is seen to be done locally. I think it will | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
also result in more failed cases as victims and witnesses will have to | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
travel long distance to get to court. It will waste police time | :13:13. | :13:19. | |
because we will have to get to court. The point made about this is | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
passing on cuts. The cuts are outsourced to the police service | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
because it is that I mail that will be spent spending travelling to | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
Wakefield and Leeds accompanying defendants or giving evidence. With | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
the family courts, it will be council officer's time. This is not | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
a cost neutral solution and the whole cost look at the core closure | :13:46. | :13:53. | |
programme might be useful inquiry for the justice committee to look at | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
in terms of what are the cost and cases of this. It is not acceptable | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
that we have a cut in one place that is them absorbed by other parts of | :14:04. | :14:04. | |
the system. Local justice will not be seen to be | :14:05. | :14:18. | |
done as a local media will not cover cases which take place at some | :14:19. | :14:28. | |
distance. A local solicitor told me that the consequences could be | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
catastrophic for some of Wakefield law firms, solicitors will go where | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
the work is, so firms which don't have offices in Leeds have talked | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
about the possibility of moving out of Wakefield, another big cost to | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
our city centre. They cannot afford to be in a city where there is not a | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
court because they cannot afford to pay the expenses for lawyers to | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
travel regularly to Leeds. The government has cut funding for the | :14:54. | :14:56. | |
justice system by ?2.1 billion in the last parliament further ?900 | :14:57. | :15:04. | |
million of cuts to come by the end of this Parliament. Despite these | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
cuts Wakefield Magistrates' Court has been performing to a high | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
standard. The government said in its own consultation document that the | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
building was well used and according to the Law Society Wakefield is a | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
busy court operating at a higher capacity than the England and Wales | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
average. For the year to date our conviction rate for cases is 87% | :15:24. | :15:33. | |
against a national target of 85%. It has a very low overall attrition | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
rate of just 10% against the national attrition rate target of | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
15%. This is very important particularly when it comes to | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
protecting one rubble. -- protecting the vulnerable. I met the new | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
district commander of Wakefield police and he was rightly proud of | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
the work they are doing in terms of having a very high conviction rate | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
for domestic violence and that is something which has changed for the | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
better since I was elected as the MP for Wakefield ten years ago. I can | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
remember asking for a specialist domestic violence Court for | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
Wakefield and being told almost with a pat on my hand by one of the court | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
officials that I did not fully understand domestic violence and the | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
trouble was that there was these allegations and then you would find | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
them sitting holding hands outside the court. It was nice to be told | :16:27. | :16:38. | |
what I did not understand by court officials. I left him in no doubt | :16:39. | :16:40. | |
about my understanding and that perhaps he needed to understand a | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
little bit more about domestic violence cases. We have worked hard | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
on the safe at home prospect for victims of the mystic violence, we | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
have a conviction rate of 81% against a national target of 75%. | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
The commander is rightly concerned about what that will mean, we also | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
have a very low average of days from first hearing to trial, 65 days | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
compared to 103 days nationally. This is the second round of court | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
closures in Wakefield since 2010. We had the closure of Pontefract magic | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
its court in 2013 and that work has already transferred, and the staff, | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
have transferred to Wakefield. This closure means all parties will all | :17:28. | :17:35. | |
need to travel into Leeds, significantly increasing travel | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
time. The Minister has said 95% of citizens would still be able to | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
reach the court by car but we have already heard in this debate that | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
the courts deal with the most vulnerable people in our society and | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
the poorest people in our society and according to the Law Society | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
just 47% of Wakefield Magistrate Courts users, 47% of Wakefield court | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
users will have to travel for over an hour in each direction to reach | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
court by public transport. This will reduce access to justice. I am | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
concerned about the impact of those longer, more expensive journey times | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
on victims, witnesses and defendants. And magistrates. Those | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
living in the whole body and set will have difficulty getting to lead | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
by public transport with very sporadic bus services, let alone | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
people who live in the old pit villages where they then have two, | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
they either get directly into Leeds are they have to come into Wakefield | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
by bus, irregular sporadic services which don't often turn up and then | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
change onto a train service and then travel by foot. Travelling by foot | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
puts them at greater risk of bumping into the people they may be in court | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
to appear against and I can tell you, as a victim, that is something | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
which is not a comfortable place to be and something I have personally | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
experienced. Those on low incomes are not eligible to claim back | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
travel expenses and some who are required to attend court may have | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
never been to Leeds before. These are not people who have access to | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
Google maps on their smartphones. These people can get easily lost, we | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
heard the case of the 80-year-old man turning up to appear against his | :19:32. | :19:33. | |
neighbour. I witnessed anti-social behaviour when I was at school gates | :19:34. | :19:42. | |
in Wakefield. I said to the lady that it happens to that I had seen | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
and she reported it to the police and this case against this very | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
aggressive individual came up during the general election campaign. It | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
was scheduled to be heard at 10am so I gave up my morning 's canvassing | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
in the interest of local justice and justice being done. I sat with the | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
complainant and her husband and her neighbour who had turned up to | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
support her, because often people need one or two other people to | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
support them as well. We sat in the victims room the defendant turned up | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
with his solicitor and was then advised to plead guilty. Until you | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
are a victim you don't realise how important it is for the witnesses | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
and victims to turn up because if the victims witnesses do not turn up | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
it does not proceed and the getaway. This was brought home to meet 20 | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
years ago when I was a victim of assault but I basically stopped a | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
large rampaging group of girls who had assaulted, were kicking a young | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
woman on a zebra crossing in north London and then assaulted a cheap | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
worker and then assaulted me. It was only when I turned up I realised how | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
important it was that the people who had been victims of assault were in | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
that room that day so that those girls pleaded guilty in that case to | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
the charge of affray. Nobody knows this and how bad things happen to | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
them but these are important things, so if people have to drop their | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
children at school, wait for the bus, get off the bus, get the train | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
into Leeds, arrived into Leeds, walk to the court, they have already not | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
appeared in the case has already failed if it was listed for 10am. | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
This is important for people in Wakefield and I think if this has to | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
go ahead Wakefield cases should be listed as afternoon cases to enable | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
people to attend but the childcare issue particularly around victims of | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
domestic violence cannot be overstated. Young people, victims of | :21:49. | :21:56. | |
domestic abuse, all those who rely on public transport will be affected | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
by this so the government is erecting hurdles for witnesses to | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
overcome and that is not what the role of the justice system should | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
be. Legal professionals in Wakefield have told me how good our local | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
court was at delivering local justice and again we have heard | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
concerns from the Right Honourable member from Bromley about | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
magistrates from the area and from Bridgend who have no local knowledge | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
and understanding, people who don't know life and circumstances in | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
Wakefield and the surrounding villages will lose local decisions | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
on local justice matters. The government likes to talk a good talk | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
on devolving power to communities but every action they take takes | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
power away from local communities. We have already heard some creative | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
examples of court hearings could be heard. I am insistent on the fact | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
that the victim should feel comfortable and protected when they | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
walk into the court but we do have a court chamber in Wakefield Council | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
and we have County Court building as well in Wakefield. We had Bill Nighy | :23:04. | :23:11. | |
filming there, that was an exciting day for the city and certainly for | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
myself, that was a couple of months ago. These are court buildings which | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
could be used for some very specific cases. The Lord Chief Justice | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
reported two weeks ago that the system of justice has become an to | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
most and the Law Society has described access to justice as being | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
on the verge of a crisis. Funding for civil cases has fallen by 62% | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
since civil legal aid was cut and these closures I think can worsen | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
the trend around access to justice. I want to say a word about the legal | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
aid changes, the honourable gentleman, the Right Honourable | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
gentleman, Honourable gentleman, is well aware of the case of hobby and | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
Christie Shepherd from my constituency who died of carbon | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
monoxide poisoning while on holiday in Corfu, the appearance were denied | :24:01. | :24:11. | |
legal aid at first -- the appearance were denied. I am eternally grateful | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
to the Minister who was able to work with us to get that decision | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
overturned after we petition the Prime Minister and secured a | :24:22. | :24:29. | |
meeting. We have similar case of a man who died at his home in February | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
2014 during the flood and his father was left paralysed from the waist | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
down after a cardiac arrest. His parents believe he may have been | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
killed by cyanide gas which had leached out from a former landfill | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
site and come up with the floodwater. They have been told by | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
the legal aid agency that their request for legal aid has been | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
rejected on the ground that the inquest did not concern the public | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
interest. I have discussed this with the honourable member and I do hope | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
that the legal aid agency will review this trial is funding as a | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
matter of utmost urgency and I hope the Minister will once again | :25:16. | :25:17. | |
personally intervene so that justice can be done for that family and they | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
are not left in the position of having to present their own case and | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
examine witnesses, the father from his wheelchair, at that inquest. The | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
Minister has suggested that those two far-away from court could appear | :25:33. | :25:39. | |
via video link but we already have up-to-date technological facilities | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
at Wakefield court, including our own present a court service which is | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
important because we have two prisons, Wakefield prison which | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
houses high risk offenders and Newhall women's prison as well. We | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
had the Chief Executive of the courts and tribunals service at the | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
Public Accounts Committee saying she has negotiated so any buildings | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
which are sold can be reinvested in modernisation but they are yet to | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
dispose of 15 closed courts from its 2010 closure of courts. One of those | :26:18. | :26:27. | |
sites is Pontefract magistrate court which has fallen into rack and ruin | :26:28. | :26:35. | |
in the town centre. I do not want to see Wakefield Magistrates' Court | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
falling into rack and ruin. We have already had one derelict building in | :26:40. | :26:47. | |
Wakefield which the council have passed to compulsory purchase and | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
spend money on so it doesn't fall down. Again this is where the cost | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
of a closure falls on local people although the savings are made | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
nationally. It is local people who picked up the cost in terms of | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
anti-social behaviour, in terms of derelict buildings and making sure | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
they are secure and properly maintained. I think, we have heard | :27:07. | :27:15. | |
from the Secretary of State for Justice, we have had changes on | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
legal aid, prison reform which is welcome, and he has you turned on a | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
range of issues. But we have also had mistakes which cost money. The | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
legal aid contract is an example of how to throw an entire system up in | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
the air, try to intervene in the market, cause huge upset and concern | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
for people and their livelihoods only then to withdraw at the last | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
minute. What have the costs being to local solicitors and law firms | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
across the country in bidding for those contracts, winning them, not | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
winning them, etc. I think the Minister would do well to listen | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
before making another costly and damaging area. Wakefield is a city | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
with great people, great transport connections from north to south but | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
not least a West. I hesitate to interrupt, but I hope the honourable | :28:10. | :28:16. | |
lady will soon be drawing her remarks to a close because there are | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
a significant number of other people who are waiting to speak. Thank you, | :28:20. | :28:27. | |
I will just conclude my remarks by saying that justice is supposed to | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
conflict the guilty and protect the innocent and there is a grave risk | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
with these proposals that they will do the reverse. | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
As there are so many people waiting to speak, I have to impose a time | :28:40. | :28:47. | |
limit of eight minutes. It is a pleasure to follow the honourable | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
member for Wakefield and I congratulate the honourable member | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
for Dulwich and West Norwood Ford securing this debate. I wish to | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
speak up for the principle of local justice and the Bible importance of | :28:59. | :29:05. | |
the courthouse in Stockford and our constituency and Hazel Grove. I | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
welcome this decision made last month to keep Stockport courthouse | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
open. Particularly in wake of my complaint with the ministry and | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
having conversations with the Minister for courts and legal aid. A | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
key principle of our justice system as many honourable members have said | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
today is one that underpins most magistrates and Crown Court and | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
justice should be delivered by peers and give rise to the requirement for | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
local justice to be administered by local people within the local area. | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
It is these principles which have given rise to jurisdictions in local | :29:39. | :29:45. | |
courts which make up the current structure of the service. These | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
principles under the current core system gives rise to the important | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
practical benefits which helped deliver justice effectively. It | :29:55. | :29:56. | |
provides shorter distance to travel from relevant parties in cases | :29:57. | :30:05. | |
including defendants, witnesses. As well as the courts themselves. It | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
gives rise to the smaller badgers having a local identity and social | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
aspect. Finally the distribution of courts contributes to local | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
communities but servers -- serves as catalysts to the local economies. | :30:24. | :30:31. | |
They are the legal profession is that the honourable member mentioned | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
as well. It is out of respect for these principles and the practical | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
benefits I oppose the merger of the local justice area and Greater | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
Manchester -- Manchester which was considered at a similar time to the | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
courthouse. I made the separate case at the ministry that in the event of | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
any changes to the local justice area of Greater Manchester that not | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
all the business of any new merge is conducted. Turning to my local Court | :31:00. | :31:09. | |
I made big casements go to the ministry to urge that Stockport | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
should remain open and attain a significant proportion of its | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
current magistrate and County Court functions. Stockport courthouse 47 | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
staff and was running at only 54% capacity in 2014 with the annual | :31:23. | :31:29. | |
running costs of ?870,000. Please allow me to explain why I felt this | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
way. Those impacted by the proposed closure would be the court uses | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
including witnesses in the Magistrates' Court on those involved | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
in smaller claims, bankruptcy and evictions in the County Court. All | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
of these groups or vulnerable people who need the security and | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
convenience of local services at what is already a stressful time for | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
them. The potential closure of the Stockport courthouse could have | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
restricted access to justice and may have ended up with a false economy | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
shifting the operating costs to other areas. I'm glad you mentioned | :32:04. | :32:11. | |
Stockport court is not be closed. I was welcomed by members of our | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
committee because it also houses a very successful problem-solving | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
court which has been recognised by the lord Chief Justice and Lord | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
Chancellor has been an area where we could do more to combine | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
jurisdictions and get a much more effective use of judicial capacity | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
and better outcomes. He raises an important point of the innovative | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
work being carried out in Stockport and I'm grateful to him bringing | :32:38. | :32:40. | |
that to the attention of the House this afternoon. This would leave the | :32:41. | :32:47. | |
town without a court and would mean my constituents would travel to | :32:48. | :32:49. | |
Manchester in their quest for justice. This would not only see | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
them incurring additional expense but negative impacts on vulnerable | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
people and the disabled. It could increase the amount of defendants | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
not turning up the hearings, wasting resources of court and meaning more | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
restaurants would be -- arrest warrants would be issued. More on a | :33:07. | :33:14. | |
economic perspective, if the closure went ahead on its proposed form all | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
cases would be heard in Manchester and there would no longer be a | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
Magistrates' Court between Chesterfield and Manchester. This | :33:22. | :33:27. | |
Chesterfield Stockport case was mentioned earlier. In addition the | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
closing of the Stockport court would utterly impact on the employees but | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
the local businesses in the legal profession. I understand that in a | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
context of wider pressures and public finances that some savings | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
have to be made and I acknowledge the Minister has an on an enviable | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
task with the difficult decisions he is facing. I have something for | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
other local courts in surrounding areas. Many of whom could equally | :33:53. | :33:59. | |
have applied these arguments and with local communities with strong | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
allegiance to the courts. I am sorry to note that the courts in Derry, | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
old and Trafford are earmarked for closure. There is a stronger case. | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
Fred, it is one of the heavily utilised courts in the area. The | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
stated AMs of Her Majesty's courts states it is to reduce surplus | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
capacity by closing those courts that are unused or underused or are | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
simply unsuitable for the services we need to provide in them. During | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
the 2014/15 financial year, Stockport court was utilised by 54% | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
of its capacity and that was the highest occupancy of ever of that in | :34:39. | :34:46. | |
Greater Manchester. Stockport Council was -- Stockport coursed war | :34:47. | :34:55. | |
-- Stockport court was refurbished in 2010. The Government announcement | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
that Stockport court will not be closed is very good news indeed the | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
people of Stockport and surrounding areas. I made the submission to the | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
Department of Justice as part of the consultation process and also | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
attended meetings with my honourable friend along with my neighbouring MP | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
on the honourable member for Stockport who I will pay tribute | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
for, for the amount of work she did as well as the member for Cheadle. I | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
will take this in a cross-party approach and work cooperatively. I | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
am pleased our arguments were listened to by Government was | :35:29. | :35:36. | |
genuine consultation exercise, particularly given the Minister's | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
intervention in that process. In summary, I feel is to port | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
courthouse should remain open and I am pleased we have indicated that. | :35:46. | :35:52. | |
It is important to preserve the long-standing principle is the local | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
justice to give ministers to -- to provide services in the local area. | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
It can continue to contribute to the local community and economy and as | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
it currently provides a relatively high level of occupancy, compared to | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
other courts in Greater Manchester and surrounding districts. The | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
continued operation of the Stockport courthouse can be incorporated into | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
whichever future model of local justice area structure from Greater | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
Manchester that the Ministry of Justice would like to pursue. I ask | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
the Minister to shed further light on that matter. I welcome the fact | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
that as part of the reform package the Government is investing over | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
?700 million of the next four years to update the Court and Tribunal | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
state, installing modern IT systems and making the justice system more | :36:45. | :36:46. | |
efficient and effective for modern users. I have sympathy for other | :36:47. | :36:53. | |
local courts and surrounding areas across the country. I am glad many | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
colleagues have been here today to stand up for the local courts. | :36:58. | :37:05. | |
Perhaps in a week that has been characterised by open attitudes of | :37:06. | :37:07. | |
the Government to show it's listening mode, I wonder if and I | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
would hope that the Minister will be able to hear some of the important | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
pleas of Right Honourable members here this afternoon. I agree with | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
the last remark of the honourable member and I hope the Minister is in | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
listening mode as we pursue it. I wanted to start by congratulating my | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
honourable friend for the way that she has opened this debate and also | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
to congratulate her on securing this. I hope it is an important | :37:37. | :37:46. | |
debate this on February and this is debate this on February and this is | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
the first opportunity we have had to do that. I want to join the tributes | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
to the Minister who is not only civil and decent but he has been a | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
tentative with me and delegations that I have brought down from North | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
Wales. Solicitors and they see a BMW agencies because we are speaking | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
with one voice on this. It is an important issue that goes across the | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
whole local community. I am saying that not just because he's a black | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
belt in martial arts because he genuinely the time to sit down with | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
us and go through the detail. The policy is wrong. The one sized fits | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
all court closure programme is both crude and wrong. It is against the | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
principle of local justice which is the cornerstone of the British | :38:36. | :38:43. | |
justice system. It is also against what the Government is talking about | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
localism. It talks localism but is centralising not just with courts. | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
We have seen in North Wales, we have seen the tax offices move from one | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
place to another to be centralised in Cardiff. You can't talk | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
devolution and deliver centralisation. It is completely | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
wrong and we need to hold the Government to account on that. I | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
want to concentrate on the decision to close both Holyhead and another | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
court and move the business to Caernarfon which is a great distance | :39:13. | :39:20. | |
away. Simply to say it costs. As I indicated to the chair of the | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
justice select Committee, it is a comprehensive review in the last | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
Parliament and I made representations, exactly the same | :39:32. | :39:33. | |
representations I made this time which were upheld them because they | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
were seen by the departments to be right at this times. Nothing has | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
changed. We were in a recession at the time and the areas were deemed | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
to be valuable to serving local justice. I make that point again | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
because I think this is simply about saving costs. Those losing out the | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
local people and the poorest in society in many ways again the | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
Minister wrote to me and as he did to many members and has asked for | :40:06. | :40:12. | |
senior officials from Her Majesty's court and Tribunal is to discuss | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
technical arrangements with me for local alternative provisions. I can | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
tell the Minister that the meeting will take place just after Easter. I | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
will quote a constructive argument to them. I will put in the same | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
argument, the same argument as I put this time because it has brought | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
support and it is right for my area which is a periphery area of Wales. | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
It has seen lots of closures over the principal Government's services | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
and we needed it. It deserves to have these courts functional in | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
those areas. I will argue that because Holyhead is the biggest town | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
in my constituency. It is a periphery town, Major port town, one | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
of the busiest ports in the UK and it is in the response that the | :41:01. | :41:07. | |
Department made to the closure's proposal. It was confirmed that it | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
was too difficult to travel great distances for those caught users who | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
would otherwise have to make those long journeys to attend. On Anglesey | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
they are looking at alternative part-time. I do think the time is | :41:19. | :41:33. | |
good enough. Other civic buildings can be used and public buildings for | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
these hearings. There will be a cost to adapt those. There has been some | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
maintenance over the years that will be wasted. I am looking at certain | :41:48. | :41:54. | |
things in the document about utilisation rates which the chairman | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
of the Select Committee mentioned. There is talk about 20 and 31% which | :41:59. | :42:09. | |
is a low figure but I am unaware of cases -- aware of cases being taken | :42:10. | :42:17. | |
to Caernarfon. There is this stealth moving businesses away from certain | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
courts with a view to closing them down in the future. It has happened | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
to other services in my area in the last three to four years and I | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
accept the husband closures over many years. Again, we had a recent | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
review which was very fundamental and the select committee has looked | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
at it and here we are again. What is next? It will only be a matter of | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
time before they close. I want to come to the issue of the digital | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
connections and the virtual courts which have been talked about. I want | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
to repeat the fact that I am not a Luddite and Winnie to modernise. If | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
things can be done in a proper manner, it should be. To suggest | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
that we will have these virtual courts, that they will replace the | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
court, when the infrastructure is not in place, it is simply silly to | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
be frank and Winnie to get a coherent plan. I have been working | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
with the Department of culture, media and sport to get improved | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
mobile communications. I do believe there are many that don't want masts | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
in their area but we can work with that. There are many Government | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
buildings in those areas that could be cited the communications. We need | :43:32. | :43:38. | |
to work together. They need to look before they make announcements and | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
look to each other to have a coherent plan. | :43:42. | :43:49. | |
I will be meeting with officials to bid for the case for retention of | :43:50. | :43:59. | |
courts in my area. There are issues with border control and the | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
detention cells have moved from Holyhead port took an ardent, a | :44:04. | :44:11. | |
great distance of travel. Please travel is often private provision | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
which is very costly as well. -- police travel. It makes sense, the | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
courts were put there in the first place because they were | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
strategically important and that remains the case today. I hope the | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
Minister is listening, that he will have the go-ahead and flexibility to | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
those officials I am meeting that if no provision, alternative provision | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
is practical for technical or other reasons, that retention of those, as | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
it says in the paper, will remain the case. That we will still have | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
local justice on the periphery areas of north-west Wales because the | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
people of my area deserve that. It is the cornerstone of British | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
justice as I said and we need to retain it and the people of North | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
Wales are speaking with one voice on this. It is a pleasure to follow the | :45:00. | :45:07. | |
honourable member and congratulate the honourable member for Dulwich | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
and West Norwood for securing this debate which was a pleasure to vote | :45:11. | :45:19. | |
to make it happen. It will come as no surprise that I was disappointed | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
with the decision to close Torquay Magistrates' Court for a number of | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
reasons. It is something that has provided local justice for many | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
years and there were concerns raised by the police and many others about | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
the idea, it is not just the idea that was touched upon in the opening | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
speech of people answering charges who now need to go elsewhere but | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
witnesses, victims and all others associated with the cases heard | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
before the local badger trips court. It is also very important that the | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
Magistrates' Court has always been about local people sitting in | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
judgment on local crimes and the matters that might irritate | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
communities rather than let's see at the Crown Court where items can be | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
more decided by the law overall given the offences that rightly we | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
want to have more deterrent to sentences and where a judge would be | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
more looking at the law and making sure precedents were correctly | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
followed in terms of sensing people for the crimes they have committed. | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
I think me what has been slightly concerning, certainly as a member of | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
the Public Accounts Committee when last week we were examining some of | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
the value for money in the criminal justice system was about what | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
long-term plan there actually is for the courts estate. What brings out | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
into focus in my own situation is the money spent over the last few | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
years on Torquay Magistrates' Court. Not least the ?111,000 spent last | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
year installing new windows. I accept the argument people did not | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
wish to prejudge a closure decision but it's quite clear we should have | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
a long-term plan and where a court might be one selected for a closure | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
it is obvious there needs to be some restrictions on the amount of money | :47:05. | :47:12. | |
spent. It's a welcome facility but to see the money spent in the years | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
before something is due to close it is almost a criminal waste of cash. | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
So whilst I welcome that it is a good court good facility I would say | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
there does need to be a long-term asset plan for the courts estate to | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
ensure the investment which will go into the wider network is targeted | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
at those buildings in the best way possible and we don't find ourselves | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
in a year or two debating buildings which had investment as part of this | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
programme being proposed for closure as part of another programme. I | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
think there is a wider discussion around bricks and mortar and | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
buildings, but about what types of cases are heard and where in | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
particular without the Magistrates' Court, what type is of cases can be | :47:58. | :48:05. | |
dealt with in alternative locations. There are many offences we know that | :48:06. | :48:07. | |
are tried at Magistrates' Court were the prospect of card study -- of | :48:08. | :48:15. | |
custody is next to nil so I would wish to see a more long-term plan | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
about working with local authorities who have buildings which are | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
suitable and could be used for hearings were there is no prospect | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
of custody, for example those not paying their TV licence. That would | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
be far more sensible for them not to be making a long journey. Also where | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
there might be an argument about cases which have been irritating to | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
a local community and would be beneficial to be heard in them | :48:43. | :48:45. | |
rather than being shipped away from them. I think there is an ally | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
discussion to be had around the court about what items we do centre | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
court. I remember during my time in charge of finance at a local | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
authority was council tax being one of the few debts which is still | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
enforced through a threat of imprisonment. I accept it is almost | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
an heard of for someone to be sent to prison purely for not paying | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
council tax but as it stands today you still have the whole process of | :49:14. | :49:20. | |
collection of that tax going through a magistrate court with as any other | :49:21. | :49:23. | |
debt somebody might all a local authority apart from business rates | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
will be collected through the County Court system. Add remember us having | :49:28. | :49:34. | |
two teams 1% of person for one debt to the old, and another person | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
pursuing business rates to the Magistrates' Court. It is difficult | :49:38. | :49:48. | |
when people to understand when people defraud the system, it will | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
perhaps encourage the government to perhaps look at reforming the court | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
process and look at what types of cases are ending up, particularly | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
the enforcement of council tax which could be better done in a County | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
Court setting, certainly in Turkey. It would mean people go to Torquay | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
County Court that potentially setting off to a Magistrates' Court | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
to have an argument about a debt they have been unable to pay. | :50:15. | :50:28. | |
I think for me there is a real need to looked at how we have a plan for | :50:29. | :50:37. | |
the long-term future of our court, how we have studied it to ensure | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
that some cases can still be decided locally and a real commitment to | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
doing that, not just an allusion to it but our plan in the areas where | :50:46. | :50:53. | |
courts will not be in place. I also say it is it important about how we | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
have that for the magistrate as well, the news that Torquay | :51:00. | :51:02. | |
Magistrates' Court will disappear has prompted an number of people who | :51:03. | :51:05. | |
have sat on the bench for a long period of time to consider if they | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
would travel to Plymouth to hear a large number of cases. I would also | :51:11. | :51:16. | |
be concerned that the magistrates were being drawn from areas close | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
around where courts survived rather than having, as people spread across | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
the areas, able to reflect the impact of the community is | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
concerned. On a slightly related point about how we call people are | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
per jury service as well. Crown Court cases are not held in Torbay, | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
but reducing the number of potential Crown Court locations we could also | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
be similarly restricting the areas we can sensibly draw jewellers from | :51:44. | :51:54. | |
-- juror 's from. People should have an equal chance of being called up | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
for jury service rather than finding that because they happen to live | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
close to the sole Crown Court that the chances are higher of being | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
called up for jury service. Those living some distance away, because | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
of the practicalities, are not likely to be called at all. Again, | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
that is one of the things I think would be interesting to look at. | :52:17. | :52:22. | |
Fast Mr Deputy Speaker it is disappointing to be standing here | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
reflecting on the closure of Torquay Magistrates' Court, I do hope some | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
of the points will be taken up around more long-term planning to | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
ensure we don't have things like big of money being spent on courts | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
months before the proposed closure and a long-term think over what is | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
going through courts, not just where are those cases are heard. I | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
congratulate the honourable member for Dulwich and West Norwood for | :52:53. | :52:59. | |
securing this debate and I would like to echo the comments made by | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
many of my colleagues. This is a particularly significant issue for | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
Wales and my constituents in what is a largely rural constituency and I | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
am the court cheer for the justice union and family courts | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
parliamentary group. Wales is witnessing a decline in access to | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
justice, 15 courts were closed between 2010 and 2015 and since the | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
2015 collection of further 14 have closed or are we are discussing them | :53:31. | :53:37. | |
today. The closure in my constituency means cases will need | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
to be transferred to Aberystwyth. The issue of inadequate public | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
transport is well-documented but members will understand that the | :53:45. | :53:52. | |
journey is not simply a matter of waiting for the next boss to turn | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
up. Who would not be concerned about the prospect of defendants and | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
witnesses travelling to court together on the same bus possibly | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
for a matter of hours. For many people across Wales it would become | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
impossible to reach any Magistrates' Court for a 9:30am start. Closures | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
will also have severe impact on staff who faced either redundancy | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
are significantly longer journeys to work. Consideration must be given to | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
staff in the circumstances who have caring responsibilities or those who | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
are disabled for who continued on planet could become untenable. The | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
government defends itself by claiming courts are underused but I | :54:35. | :54:37. | |
have been told court cases are being moved in order to skew the figure is | :54:38. | :54:47. | |
unjustified closing some courts. It will effectively result in the cost | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
of providing justice being passed from the state onto the individual | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
engaging with the justice system whether as an offender or a witness | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
or a victim. Such a transfer of burden is a long-running strategy | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
for the UK Government. Most notably and most controversially are at the | :55:02. | :55:10. | |
restrictions only delayed. -- on legal aid. | :55:11. | :55:21. | |
Legal aid was meant to put an end to legal rights being luxuries beyond | :55:22. | :55:28. | |
the reach of ordinary citizens. The UK Government 's restrictions | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
rollback on these important steps towards social justice. The | :55:33. | :55:35. | |
restrictions pass on the cost of Justice to the state to the | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
individual and unfortunately this means many people cannot afford to | :55:39. | :55:45. | |
access justice whether the court is within a geographical reach or not. | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
The closures of courts in rule Wales will also have a profound impact on | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
a persons ability to conduct their business through the medium of | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
Welsh. The consequence of court closures and villages to | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
availability of legal aid including the reduction in awarding legal aid | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
contracts to local solicitors will continue the trend of seeing small | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
independent legal firms becoming unviable and subsequently being | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
forced to relocate close down. In strong Welsh beating parts of Wales | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
it will make it impossible for residents to access legal services, | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
obtain advice or legal counsel or conduct their business to the | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
language of their choice which I would remind the house is the right. | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
The Welsh language should be a consideration when deciding whether | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
or not to close courts and I am pleased the government belatedly | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
agreed to carry out its duty in carrying out an impact assessment | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
but Welsh speakers should not be forced to mount campaigns to make | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
sure of these assessments which the government are legally required to | :56:47. | :56:49. | |
carry out are completed. I read it took so long for the government to | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
do it in this case even if I am glad it has been done. Returning to the | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
issue of court access in rule areas I have a background in teaching | :56:59. | :57:01. | |
through video conferencing, I was the director in charge of teaching | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
through video and we spoke to a number of secondary schools | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
throughout Wales. I therefore have an interest in efforts to increased | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
access to justice through the use of technology. Given the court closures | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
and the problems they will cause in rule parts of Wales allowing | :57:20. | :57:26. | |
healings to take place the Motley may -- take place Motley may be | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
welcome. But I do note the eight conditions set out by the review of | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
efficiency in criminal proceedings in January last year. These | :57:36. | :57:38. | |
conditions were considered prerequisites. The first is obvious | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
but crucial, the equipment used and the audio and visual quality should | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
be of high standard. Given that connectivity infrastructure in my | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
constituency along with vast swathes of rural Wales is even poor than the | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
transport infrastructure I wonder if the Minister would outline what | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
consideration will be given to the quality and liability of that | :58:03. | :58:04. | |
infrastructure in those areas where courts will be closed? I also hope | :58:05. | :58:14. | |
that the recommendation that best practice is identified for hearings | :58:15. | :58:23. | |
conducted via video link. This is to ensure that justice outcomes through | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
communications technology are consistent with justice outcomes in | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
a conventional face-to-face environment. I think this is very | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
important and would be very concerned if there was an | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
inconsistency in results due to the means of fumigation. | :58:39. | :59:15. | |
In the case of the Council, there would be little adaptation and offer | :59:16. | :59:26. | |
facilities such as parking and translation equipment. It is also | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
located nearer to the police station whose sales are used for cult | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
purposes than the present grade two listed court building. I would | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
strongly urge the Minister to consider this alternative as a | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
physical court location rather than leave my constituency which covers | :59:43. | :59:48. | |
843 square miles and includes eight sizeable towns rather than leave | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
that constituency with node court facilities whatsoever. In closing, I | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
will remind the Minister that since 2010 the UK Government has already | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
closed 15 courts across Wales and a further 14 courts are now to close | :00:02. | :00:08. | |
their doors. I urge the Minister to listen to what is being said today | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
and to reconsider the proposal to close these further courts | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
particularly if we can find alternative sites in those areas | :00:16. | :00:23. | |
where public transport goes against victims and witnesses being able to | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
arrive in the alternative without any means whatsoever. I would urge | :00:28. | :00:34. | |
alternative arrangements are made. There was a quote that said the | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
statesman who contributes to put justice out of reach is an accessory | :00:40. | :00:49. | |
after the fact. May I thank the backbench business committee for | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
agreeing to have this debate which is very important. We had a similar | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
debate in September in the ACA to buy the honourable gentleman for | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
Bath and myself. Hartlepool County Court is scheduled for close which | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
is why I wanted to raise the issue and that debate a while ago fell on | :01:08. | :01:15. | |
deaf ears as Hartlepool remains closed -- scheduled for closure. I | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
mentioned in September that I had serious reservations about the | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
proposals. These reservations still remain. These concerns are shared by | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
the Law Society who recommend that Hartlepool magistrates and County | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
Courts remain open. My first concern is there is nothing lacking with | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
regards to the facilities in Hartlepool. Other parts of the | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
country, the Magistrates' Court are in March closure because they fail | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
to comply with the Equality Act 2010 or they are lacking in security | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
issues. Hartlepool has none of this. There are separate waiting | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
facilities for defence witnesses and interview rooms. If the proposed | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
closure does go ahead, the consultation can see that | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
reconfiguration of the hearing space at Teesside Magistrates' Court would | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
be required. I don't know how much of that would cost. That brings me | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
onto an additional point that of the course that will be saved by the | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
proposal to close Hartlepool. I understand this consultation has | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
been driven by a desire to reduce costs and the Minister has said on a | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
number of occasions that the courts cost half year and he wants to write | :02:25. | :02:31. | |
that down. I question whether the closure of Hartlepool Magistrates' | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
Court will save any costs at all. There is a lack of transparency | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
available in respect of this matter. The costs in terms of Hartlepool | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
Magistrates' Court and County Court have costs of around ?345,000 a | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
year. The Minister has never been able to explain how the savings will | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
be made. I would imagine a large proportion of these costs will be | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
about staff expenditure. There are eight members of staff that work at | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
the Ministry 's court and seven full-time members working at | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
Hartlepool County Court. If there is going to be redundancy which is the | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
only way forward, it is difficult -- still difficult to find out why. | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
These are job losses that they can ill afford. Unemployment in | :03:13. | :03:19. | |
Hartlepool increased in February with 2747 claimants. At a time when | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
unemployment in the UK fell in the past year by 11%, the jobless rate | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
in my constituency actually rose in the last 12 months by 11.8%. | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
Hartlepool is the 11th worth -- worst affected constituency for high | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
unemployment. It is over two and a half times the national rate. We | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
cannot afford any more job losses, especially those initiated by the | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
Government. One of the other reservations in terms of the | :03:50. | :03:58. | |
building is how they operate. The Government will be able to realise | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
any value by selling off the building. They have set the | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
Government must capitalise the receipts for reinvestment since | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
courts and tribunal services. That will not be met by closing | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
Hartlepool down. It is a leasehold. The building is owned by Hartlepool | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
Borough Council. I asked the minister before. I will ask him | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
again. How much is it going to cost to break the lease? Is the | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
considering whole of Government efficiencies rather than that silo | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
-based approach on what he had to achieve for his individual ministry? | :04:36. | :04:37. | |
Is he transferring financial pressures away from his own | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
department on to hard-pressed local Government? I mentioned the criteria | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
by which the court will be closed to seem very opaque. I asked a | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
Parliamentary question of the time about what the cost is in England | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
and Wales including Hartlepool and Teesside. That seemed to be a | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
reasonable metric to look at efficiencies across different | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
operating units. The answer I received back was the information is | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
not available centrally and can only be providing a disproportionate | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
cost. If that metric isn't being used, what is? How can relative | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
performance and effectiveness across the estate be evaluated in a | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
consistent manner? I do contends strongly that I don't think the | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
courage of Hartlepool Magistrates' Court will save any money at all. My | :05:31. | :05:39. | |
main concern is that my constituents will be inconvenienced in their | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
access to local justice. The consultation when it came to talking | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
about Hartlepool said and I quote, there are excellent road rail and | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
bus links. The person that wrote that has never been to my part of | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
the world. It is ludicrous to suggest that. Public transport | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
countryside is appalling. Somebody from Hartlepool require to be | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
Teesside Magistrates' Court for an early-morning hearing and without | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
access to a car would struggle to make it. The proportion of | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
Hartlepool residents who have access to a car is 41%. That is more than | :06:15. | :06:24. | |
half of what the UK averages at 81%. Victims will need calm before having | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
the stress of giving evidence and they will be inconvenienced. I asked | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
the minister in September, is this what the Government wants to make | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
justice and access to justice more stressful and inconvenient for | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
innocent victims? Justice is not served by making victims travel | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
longer distances. The consultation concedes that as the present time, | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
99% of those accessing Hartlepool Magistrates' Court can be there by | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
public transport within 60 minutes. After the closure scheduled to take | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
place in January 20 91% will take between one and two hours. This | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
fails the Government's intention of ensuring people will not have to | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
face longer journeys. It is one of the key reasons why the Law Society | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
is opposed to the closures of the courts in Hartlepool. Finally I want | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
to raise one other point in terms of the holistic view of law, order and | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
security with regards to Government policy. Police, staff and offices | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
fell from 628 in March 2010 to 1000 -- fell to... A drop of 30%. Total | :07:32. | :07:42. | |
crime has gone up by 22%. In Hartlepool, the areas of offences | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
have risen sharply. Year-on-year violence without injury has gone up | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
46.7% and nondomestic threat -- theft has gone up and shoplifting by | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
19.5%. Personal robbery in Hartlepool has gone up in the last | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
year by 63.6%. This is going to put enormous strain on the whole | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
judicial system. I would as the minister again to reconsider the | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
proposed closure for Hartlepool Magistrates' Court in keeping with | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
the holistic view of how we have good, local law and order. Police | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
think about the considerations made by me, my constituents and by the | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
Law Society and ensure Hartlepool Magistrates' Court and County Court | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
can remain open. Can I start by thanking my honourable friend for | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
her hard work in securing this important debate today. Halifax is | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
unusual in that we are having to courts closed in my constituency is | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
part of these changes. They are currently in two different buildings | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
and will be closed on the majority of the workload transfer to | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
Bradford. And one who has seen the recent BBC series Happy Valley will | :09:04. | :09:15. | |
see there are many criminals taking up our time. I am pleased and | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
relieved to inform honourable members that of thoroughly gripping | :09:21. | :09:29. | |
television, is not an accurate portrayal of Calderdale. We were | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
prepared to work with the Government to see one of our courts closed. We | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
recognise that efficiency savings could be made and in a move | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
predominantly led by the local magistrates bench and I would like | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
to thank them for their detailed work and analysis on the proposals, | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
we campaign for merging of the courts and in a way that will | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
deliver a cost saving to the Government but access to local | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
justice would have been maintained. However the announcement last month | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
delivered in a written statement as identified by an above my colleagues | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
on the last day of the recess, both courts were closed and the | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
Government's ambition of the savings would not accommodate this proposal. | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
Fighting injustice is largely what motivates me to do this job and I | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
would argue that British values are standing in the world and are | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
entwined with our fair and accessible justice system which has | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
paved the way for so many others around the world. We never know when | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
we might be a victim of crime or witness a crime and live in the hope | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
that we never have a family broke down so serious that we require | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
guidance from the family courts. The two cords eye patch play an | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
essential role not only in writing ones but resolvable manners of | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
sensitive disputes. The arguments about access to justice and the | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
merits of this have been well rehearsed over the course of this | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
consultation and throughout this debate and will focus on my | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
challenges to the Government which I had the Minister will recognise in | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
his winding up. The closure of 86 courts and tribunals have been | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
packaged not as closures but as a means of facilitating a justice | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
revolution driven by technology that will make justice more accessible | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
than ever before. The Government has committed to spend 700 million over | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
five years to modernise and digitise the court. However a written | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
question to the Minster tailored on the 7th of December and answered on | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
the 29th of February revealed that 1.35 million was spent on delivering | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
the digitalisation programme in court which has subsequently been | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
announced the closure. Whilst the responsibility of the Minister | :11:30. | :11:31. | |
outlined that the vast majority of this expenditure was in renewable | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
hardware assets that could be relocated, representatives from the | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
courts and Halifax tell me that thousands has been wasted and costs | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
associated with the installation and custom in buildings due to be | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
closed. I will be grateful to know if the 700 million figure quoted is | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
a new fund that will mitigate the access gap created by the court | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
closures orders this figure include monies already spent as part of the | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
digitalisation programme in court that we now know will be closed? But | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
that this will mind that the Minister and to echo the sentiments | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
expressed, I'm grateful for the opportunity to meet with him in | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
person to present the case on merging the courts. He's a bully met | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
with representatives from the magistrate's bench Calderdale. It | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
was clear to me what services the Government will provide in the | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
roll-out of this revolution and what the response and says are to local | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
authorities and law form is bridging the access gap. Local authorities | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
are cash-strapped and especially in Calderdale were the Boxing Day | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
floods combined with other pressures have placed an unprecedented burden | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
on the budget and so it will be concerned if they are expecting the | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
local governments to part finance these changes that might be | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
required. I will be even more concerned if the Government was | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
expecting the private sector to step in and into dos technology required | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
to look at the closure of the courts in a way that will introduce a | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
postcode lottery to access injustice. We have heard from other | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
colleagues around mobile coverage and broadband cover which will | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
contribute to this postcode lottery. I'm grateful of the Minister could | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
clarify what role he anticipates local authorities private sector to | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
play in the digitalisation process. I also want to outline the impact | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
that the closures will have on the local economy as identified by other | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
members. The two cords and Halifax are located at the top end of the | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
town centre and surrounded by law firms in what could be described as | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
legal quota of Halifax. Like in Wakefield we have a Post Office of | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
the closure in that same part of town and stop back in October I sent | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
a letter to the Secretary of State signed by 13 representatives of law | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
firms who are situated with their close proximity to the court. Those | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
law firms employ highly educated professionals and pay good wages in | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
my constituency and are considering their futures in Halifax. Several | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
are considering following the workload. One the would-be clients | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
and Halifax will not be enough to keep all of those jobs here? There's | :14:04. | :14:10. | |
not as much work for lawyers in Halifax as Happy Valley will | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
suggest. There is the potential for surrounding offices to be empty and | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
it will not be healthy for that area of the town centre and place a | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
burden on the local authority in terms of regeneration. | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
Ultimately I am worried about those who regularly attend court, far from | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
exclusively being repeat offenders, staff from social housing provisos, | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
represent those from local authorities, police officers and | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
youth offending services are just some of the predominantly public | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
services and charity organisations who stand to be inconvenienced by | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
these closures. Let's be clear when I see inconvenienced I mean | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
extended, more costly journeys, extended periods out of office, | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
inconvenience is a cost and when we are dealing with public services it | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
is a cost of ultimately picked up by the taxpayer. In conclusion, I am | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
looking for assurances from the Minister that the Justice revolution | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
is real and deliverable in the appropriate time frame, that the | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
funding is they are and her clarity of what wastage there has already | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
been in delivering the digitalisation programme. I want to | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
know considerations will be made to assist local authorities, manage the | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
closure of chords and any impact this would have on town centres and | :15:34. | :15:35. | |
the businesses which rely on their proximity to the courts. I know that | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
the Department for justice is genuinely deliver a cost saving to | :15:39. | :15:40. | |
the taxpayer with these closures and not just a saving to the department. | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
That they haven't just passed on some of the cost to local | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
authorities, some to the Home Office, some to the social housing | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
providers, some to charities and that their ambition for savings has | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
not compromised what is sensible and practical in our world-renowned | :15:58. | :16:06. | |
justice system. Can I thank the honourable member for securing this | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
debate and opening it so skilfully and eloquently. We share concern | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
about specific court, Lambeth County Court which covers many of our | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
constituents. The member for Bromley and Chislehurst was talking about | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
how busy the court was in Bromley and George are busy he was by | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
receiving a call in here but the same is true of Lambeth court. When | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
I appeared at the court as a witness to speak for leaseholders against | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
Southwark Council, that morning alone there was something like 22 | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
individual cases involving residences and the council alone. | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
It's an incredibly busy court which is why local legal professionals | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
approached me and other members concerning the governance assessment | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
of how the court was being used. The concerns covered the time the | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
assessment took place and the consideration of preparation for | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
cases. When this was discussed in the Westminster hall debate these | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
issues were not answered fully and it would be useful if the Minister | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
can confirm whether alternative facilities have the capacity to | :17:12. | :17:14. | |
provide the preparation time and space needed for cases and it's | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
deeply unfortunate I think that in a debate about justice and the | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
government has not provided the evidence, sufficient evidence base | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
to justify its course of action. One issue I don't think has yet been | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
aired today is around law students, London South bank University | :17:36. | :17:37. | |
approached me to ask if the government is even considering the | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
impact on law students and there needs to incur additional costs and | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
travel further to attend cases. I am sorry, I thought someone was asking | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
me to give way. It'd be interesting if the Minister could provide an | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
indication if that assessment will be undertaken. The issue of travel | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
has been raised many times and the government figure about of people | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
being able to get to a different court within an hour has been | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
significantly challenged. That figure is not from home and it would | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
be much more useful if the government could provide assessment | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
for average journey times from home to court and I hope the Minister | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
will commit to that today. That 97% figure is also undermined in | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
communities like my own where only 50% of households own a car and | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
there is a specific policy of controlled parking zones which | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
affects many residents in my constituency who are either unable | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
or have very limited access to car ownership. In looking at this issue | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
on the half of individual consistence, Ireland that journey | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
times, it would take four hours for some constituents to get to really | :18:54. | :19:01. | |
need to be, including six different bus journeys. I hope we have new in | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
May who will freeze travel fears and introduce different tickets but | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
there are still higher costs for my constituents. This will affect court | :19:13. | :19:19. | |
attendance and could affect the number of council cases and could | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
affect the number of appeals and we have not seen a full assessment of | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
those issues. Nor have we seen as has been mentioned today a full | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
assessment of the potential knock-on cost to the police who are | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
transporting witnesses further. I believe it was the Law Society who | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
raised the case about juror is claiming higher cost for road car | :19:41. | :19:49. | |
use and public transport. There are additional costs to councils we have | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
heard about today, both for housing officers, social services officers | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
and also, instead of having the assessments undertaken by the | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
Department we have had huge assumptions being made about council | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
's willingness and PlayStation willingness to make space available | :20:08. | :20:09. | |
to provide video link facilities the ministers has mentioned. Where is | :20:10. | :20:18. | |
the evidence to show that will be made and to show that the equipment | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
will be available and usable. We have had honourable friends making | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
the point about rural access to broadband services but that is | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
equally relevant to rather hide where BT have not provided the | :20:32. | :20:33. | |
capacity to meet local demand. Without the capacity to deliver the | :20:34. | :20:47. | |
justice we know that is needed it seems the Ministry of Justice is | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
rushing into these proposals and is passing the buck to other parts of | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
the public sector and to individuals. Individuals who have | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
experienced crime or misfortune and are now being served another layer | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
of injustice. In conclusion I am not opposed to modernisation but without | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
those commitments it is a risky agenda and I hope, I believe it is | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
vital the government provides those assessments before it pushes ahead. | :21:17. | :21:25. | |
Can I begin by congratulating my right honourable friend for securing | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
this debate. And can I say I think the general tone of this debate has | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
been one that nobody is opposed to change and can I start by saying | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
that is where I start from. The justice system needs to change like | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
any other public service. But as my honourable friend for Wakefield said | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
it is the root cause of this, whether we like it or not, is to | :21:50. | :21:57. | |
save money. The agenda being portrayed by the Chancellor of the | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
Exchequer of small state conservatism that he longs for. That | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
has made the system not only threw up some very peculiar examples of | :22:09. | :22:16. | |
injustice but also the fact of the matter is the ludicrous situations | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
where for example the member for Torbay raised where you had a | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
Magistrates' Court were substantial investment was made a year or so ago | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
on the know to be written off. It was said that the consultation had | :22:32. | :22:39. | |
been flawed and I have two agree on that. Because clearly the assumption | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
made in this was that these courts were going to close and that people | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
could travel to the courts which would remain open. What didn't, what | :22:51. | :22:57. | |
wasn't taken into consideration was those people who don't have access | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
to cars. In the consultation in the north-east for example in my | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
constituency, people use, they Euston Magistrates' Court in | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
concert. We are told that in the consultation that if they wear to | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
have to travel where they are going to have two now they could go by | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
train. This would be a security as root seeing as there is no train | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
station in Peterlee for example. If you did it by public transport to | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
get the four 9:30am you would have two set off at something like 7am | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
and that is dependent on public transport being available. | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
Completely forgetting and not recognising the rural nature of my | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
and my colleague's will constituency. I think that's been | :23:48. | :23:54. | |
the main floor. -- rural constituency -- main floor. I think | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
the Minister is committed to change although he does have this sword | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
hanging over his head in terms of trying to find the costs. But unlike | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
the honourable member I made representations about proposals for | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
North Durham, my constituents will have to travel to Peterlee | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
Magistrates' Court, again something which will take over two hours on | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
public transport if it is possible to get there on time. If my | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
honourable member for West Durham will find it even more difficult. I | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
suggested to him a proposal for them to travel to Newcastle or at | :24:38. | :24:44. | |
Gateshead would be more, would make more sense, it is a lot quicker to | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
get from my constituency to Gateshead or Newcastle Magistrates' | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
Court. I also told by the local head of the CPS that there is spare | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
capacity in those two courts. So I wrote on the 20th of February and I | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
was disappointed to get a letter this morning which said that | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
proposal was not possible and that my constituents are going to have to | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
travel to Peterlee. It makes no sense whatsoever when you can get | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
from my constituency to Newcastle in ten minutes on the train as opposed | :25:19. | :25:26. | |
to two hours to Peterlee. I would asked to again look at those | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
proposals. I accepted this problem that people have, that we are going | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
to have to cross county boundaries, but it will make it a lot easier for | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
many of my constituents to do that. There is a fundamental problem with | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
the proposals being put forward and the cost driven nature of them. It | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
has been raised by a number of members today and it is a serious | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
one for the magistrates service and those dedicated individuals who give | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
their time to serve as magistrates. That is access to local justice, | :26:01. | :26:02. | |
justice is supposed to be dispensed locally and these proposals make | :26:03. | :26:10. | |
that not the case in future. I am not opposed to new technology, I | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
have actually spent a lot of time in court recently. The reason being I | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
have been doing a fellowship with the parliamentary trust and I have | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
to say that speaking to the professionals that I have over my | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
visits is that they are not opposed to change but what they keep telling | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
me is that there is a shortage of cash in the system. So if we are | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
going to get to the situation which I think generally the minister wants | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
to achieve in terms of local video conferencing, there will have to be | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
some upfront money put into the system to do it. Otherwise what we | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
will cuts have been made, we keep the | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
courts we have got and that'll be it. I think that'll be a mistake | :26:56. | :27:07. | |
because the dispensing of local justice, there are things I think | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
which need to be looked at, what goes to Magistrates' Court if it is | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
quite simply non-violent things which people will not be sentenced | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
to prison for, I think they can be done in other settings but the cash | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
has to be there. My experience in the last few weeks in visiting the | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
Court service throughout this country as part of the trust is that | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
there is not the actual cash upfront to do what I think would make sense, | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
not only to support the professionals but more importantly | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
at the end of the day support our constituents who not only want | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
access to justice if they are bound before a court but I think again as | :27:49. | :27:55. | |
others have said, and it is sometimes forgotten, the role of the | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
victim. That they are seeing that justice is being done and if | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
obstacles are put in their place such as access to travel to | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
Magistrates' Court that will be a problem for them. I would ask the | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
Minister to take a step back. Certainly in terms of giving some | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
commitments because I would like to see a timetable, if he's going to | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
implement these other proposals which I think he generally wants to | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
do, he has to set out how it will happen. And can I ask him to look | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
again at proposals for North Durham because it makes no sense | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
whatsoever, people being able to drive ten minutes to Newcastle to | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
access justice or two hours to Peterlee and again it comes from | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
that point. The people who drew up this consultation and never looked | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
at local geography and again assumed everyone had access to a car. In my | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
rule constituency people don't have access to a car, public transport is | :28:54. | :29:01. | |
intermittent and if that put an obstacle in the way of them getting | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
justice I have to see any modern society like ours that is a scandal. | :29:05. | :29:11. | |
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. May I thank the right honourable member | :29:12. | :29:25. | |
for bringing this important matter before the House? My honourable | :29:26. | :29:32. | |
friend spoke passionately about the closure of the Magistrates' Courts | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
and the civil courts after thousands of pounds had been spent. My | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
honourable friend, the member for Wakefield, told the house about the | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
U-turns on many policies including the scrapping of two tier contracts | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
costing the Ministry of Justice hundreds of thousands. The | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
honourable member told the house the minister has a black belt in martial | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
arts. I am a fourth dan black belt in judo but that is another story | :30:02. | :30:10. | |
for another day! My honourable friend, the member for Hartlepool, | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
told about the very good facilities in the Magistrates' Courts and the | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
closure would not save money. My honourable friend, the member for | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
Halifax, told about the massive impact on her constituents. My | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
honourable friend, the member for Durham, mentioned that the | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
consultation said travel by train. There is no train station in | :30:31. | :30:37. | |
Peterlee or consulate. The honourable member for Bermondsey and | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
Southwark raised an issue that had not been raised before, the impact | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
of closures on law students. From the other side of the honourable | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
member from High Peak who spoke about the closures in his areas. The | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
chair of the Justice select committee, the honourable mother for | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
Bromley and Chislehurst brought his vast experience to the debate and | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
his mobile phone made an intervention at a crucial time, I | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
thought. And the honourable member for Torbay was disappointed that the | :31:09. | :31:15. | |
closure of his local Magistrates' Courts had taken place and we need a | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
long-term plan. The honourable member for Hazel Grove and his | :31:20. | :31:26. | |
campaign to keep Stockport open and the many interventions. They have | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
all set out eloquently the issues at State of vital importance to access | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
to local justice. We do recognise that savings have been made in these | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
difficult and economic times. We have only just heard from the | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
transfer how he has failed to meet his own economic targets and | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
therefore further savings need to be found. We disagree profoundly | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
however as to how these savings should and could be made. We'd be | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
mentally argued that across-the-board, cuts to vital and | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
local services are unjust. -- we vehemently argued. If not | :32:03. | :32:10. | |
implemented fairly, this would increasingly create a two-tiered | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
justice system and hamper access to justice. Particularly for the most | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
vulnerable in our society. In the first instance, the basis for the | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
current proposals were based on a flawed consultation process. That | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
gets flawed results. Indeed, the minister apologised for these many | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
areas. It does call into question the basis for the listed 86 courts | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
that are being considered for closure. The announcement on these | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
potential closures was made on the last day before the February recess, | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
making this debate all the more important in order to ensure proper | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
Parliamentary scrutiny. One of the criteria for the consultation was | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
utilisation. On the face of it hit seems a reasonable criteria. We must | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
also bear in mind that fewer hearings are taking place because of | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
broader cuts in the sector. Cuts to legal aid means fewer people have | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
records to justice. That is not the right result. Due to a shortage of | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
staff and judges, since 2010, the courts and tribunals service has | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
been cut by 5000 staff and is set to lose a further 5000 to 6000 by 20 | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
20. PCS, union which includes the union working in Her Majesty 's | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
Courts and Tribunal services, the Crown Prosecution Service 's and the | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
private sector prison guard service has stated that high utilisation | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
rates can only be achieved by listing several MP contested matters | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
in the same court on the basis they will not all be effective. Before | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
the hearings are effective and one or more cases has to be delayed, it | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
adds inconvenience. Lack of available court time for listing | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
cases, often due to a shortage of staff, causes cases to be adjourned | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
for long periods. Many courts already struggled to lift family | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
multi-day cases due to the lack of courtrooms and lack of staff. This | :34:14. | :34:23. | |
often means cancelling courts and cause further delays. A report on | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
the closures consultation means figures over estimate the time these | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
courts can be used. For example, they cite that North Haven | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
Magistrates' Court has a maximum utilisation of 1240 days, according | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
to government assessments. Staff working there put it at 992 days. In | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
many instances, we have heard from honourable members that travel times | :34:52. | :34:59. | |
of these court closures will cause unacceptable inconvenience to | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
constituents. According to the Government, they say that most | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
people will still be able to reach a court within a one-hour car journey. | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
It has been said on a number of occasions, and most recently by the | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
Law Society, that the methodology used to calculate travel times was | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
not transfer -- transparent or independently verified. Travel time | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
is given in the consultation paper represent the best case scenario. I | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
know from my own experience that since Neath Magistrates' Court | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
closed in May 2014, my constituents have had to travel to Swansea, | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
denying them access to local justice in that own community. Constituents | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
and magistrates and local solicitors working in the area suggest that | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
closure of a local court has had a meditative impact locally. Several | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
areas of my constituency are far removed from the courts. They are | :35:58. | :36:05. | |
now experiencing use in Swansea. Public transport is limited. It | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
operates infrequently. The travelling times far exceed the | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
so-called one-hour travel time limit. With opposing sides victims, | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
witnesses and perpetrators potentially sat on the same bus or | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
train. Now the Neath civil and family Court is on the list of | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
closures. This will mean that constituents will have to travel to | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
port Tolbert. They will have to join the people who have also been moved | :36:34. | :36:43. | |
from another civil and family Court at Bridgend. I visited the court at | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
Port Talbot and questioned whether it could there be increased workflow | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
and whether it would be sufficient for the purposes. The journey from | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
Glyn Neath to Port Talbot takes one hour and 35 minutes. There is added | :36:57. | :37:05. | |
walking time and not allowing for heavy traffic problems. Those on low | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
incomes often have to choose between buying necessities or the cost of | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
travel to court, causing hardship at what is already a stressful time. | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
The closures have caused great inconvenience to many people in | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
Neath, who may find themselves victims of spurious allegations or | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
being charged unnecessarily. Victims of domestic abuse, for example, have | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
to travel further to seek emergency protection at a critical time when | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
any delays could lead to wreck too further and serious harm. In | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
addition to affecting our constituents, who are forced to | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
travel further afield, the closures will mean redundancies and lost | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
jobs. They note that in many constituencies across the UK, every | :37:49. | :37:56. | |
job is much needed. -- I know. Even if jobs are retained, the higher | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
travelling times, it will particularly impact those staff with | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
caring responsibilities and no staff with disabilities. The consultation | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
did not address this aspect of the closures. The court closures will | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
also have broader implications. In Neath, now the Magistrates' Court is | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
closed, the police are forced to travel all the way to Swansea to get | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
warrants, taking away valuable time on the beat. I am sure this is the | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
case in many other areas and these issues should also be addressed in | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
light of future closures. I have spoken to many working women and | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
alongside our justice system and I hear time and again of a perfect | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
storm of pressure on the court's system. There will be more time and | :38:42. | :38:50. | |
more follow-up work by the courts. At the centre may have been cuts to | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
the numbers of administrators and clerks in the court service. We're | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
looking at a raft of court closures. The consequences are frustrating for | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
users and those working there. Increased waiting time outside | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
courts would mean uncertainty around when cases would be heard, | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
particularly problematic for those reliant on public transport or when | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
parties are distressed. They include valuable people, all who have young | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
children waiting with them at court. Lack of availability of court time | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
means delays in procedures. For example, a transferred tenancy | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
application in a domestic abuse and financial remedies case, which would | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
normally last half a day at Edmonton County Court was waiting seven and a | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
half months for listing for the final hearing. The higher volumes of | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
cases at fewer call centres, the buildings themselves will come under | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
pressure. It is not unusual for advocates to have to discuss highly | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
confidential and sometimes highly distressing matters sat on the floor | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
of a corridor or in a stairwell because conference rooms are full. | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
Let us not forget the impact on jurors, not included on the list of | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
affected groups. On many occasions in this House, we have heard how the | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
wonders of technology work in transforming the judicial service, | :40:17. | :40:18. | |
making proximity to court building is a thing of the past. I am not one | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
to stand in the way of progress. We simply have not had to date a | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
sufficient, or indeed any, explanation of how the judicial | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
system fit for the 21st century and beyond will function. We have been | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
told by the minister about the use of video conferencing. For the most | :40:37. | :40:43. | |
honourable in society, who are most in need of support, those who do not | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
own a car and are relied on public transport for travel to court, it is | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
possible they do not have reliable, secure and private intranet access | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
will do many of my constituents in Neath, like so many of the | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
honourable members we have heard today, do not own a computer or | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
smartphone. They have no internet access at home and all local | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
libraries seem to be closing due to local authority cuts. We need a real | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
exhalation as to how this practice will work, how will have honourable | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
victims be kept safe and secure doing any online or remote receiving | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
is? -- file honourable victims. Proper support needs to be | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
considered. We are also due up proper explanation of costs | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
involved. I recently met with the personal support unit, which | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
provides guidance for court users. Hoping to translate the very | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
specific language and procedures in the court service in delayed terms, | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
they indicated it is far more about in person support. Also about | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
compassion and sympathy, reassurance and guidance, in a difficult and | :41:51. | :41:59. | |
vulnerable time. This cannot be provided by a teleconference. | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
Moreover, the Government case for the closures is underpinned by and | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
tested digital processes. According to the PCS union, the national | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
roll-out of a number of digital products have been delayed as they | :42:14. | :42:21. | |
were not fit for purpose. I thank my honourable friend were gaining | :42:22. | :42:23. | |
weight of the doctors she grew is made the system is in failure, so | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
how could the minister possibly assert this is a good replacement | :42:29. | :42:37. | |
for the estate? -- my honourable friend for giving way will stop I | :42:38. | :42:44. | |
would like to refer to the uniform which is used to calculate assets in | :42:45. | :42:53. | |
divorce cases. -- referred to the form. There was a fault in the form. | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
It was corrected by the minister. Over 36,000 cases obtained forms in | :43:00. | :43:06. | |
the period affected. The minister regretted the error and said this | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
set aside would not attract the fees. He needed advice over complex | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
issues and that would not be there for them through legal aid. I would | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
also referred to the client and cost management system. Due to compulsory | :43:22. | :43:31. | |
use -- due to come into compulsory use in April 20 16. Over the past | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
few weeks, it was said many legal aid firms are unable to access the | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
situation they get thrown out when they are submitting the form. The | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
system is not fit for purpose. This should be delayed. Lastly, the | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
online court proposals for online court is up to ?25,000. Individuals | :43:52. | :43:57. | |
would have no legal ad vice for that and maybe up against big | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
organisations with only good teams, which be a major disadvantage and | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
therefore I think this needs rigorous testing, and evaluation. | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
What happens in the event of technological failures? What happens | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
in the instance of unreliable technology? These will undoubtedly | :44:17. | :44:22. | |
cause further delays in proceedings rather than expediting them and | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
adding to the stress for victims and witnesses. The Law Society | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
acknowledges the aim of increasing the use of technology but during the | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
consultation process recommended that it would be prudent to | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
modernise courts with new technology, assess how it is working | :44:40. | :44:41. | |
and then consider savings, rather than the other way around and I | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
agree. I welcome the government 's desire to harness technology | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
positively and efficiently but we need to hear more about these plans | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
and surely these systems should be tested and piloted before many of | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
these closures go ahead. Perhaps the Minister will take the opportunity | :45:04. | :45:05. | |
now to explain in detail what his thinking is. And how it will work | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
for those who want access to justice. It should not lead to the | :45:11. | :45:23. | |
haves and have-nots. Finally, I wish to highlight that the last round of | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
closures and use of these buildings following these closures. Many of | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
the courts that are slated to close or have recently closed have better | :45:36. | :45:37. | |
facilities than the alternatives people would be forced to travel to. | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
I raised questions over the proceeds of sales of these buildings and the | :45:44. | :45:53. | |
ongoing cost. These buildings tend to be prominently and conveniently | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
located in town centres and if they are left to rack and ruin then they | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
can have a negative effect on the town centre. The Ministry of Justice | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
is still paying to maintain 15 of the courts closed in 2010. These are | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
costing the taxpayer over ?40,000 per month secure and maintain. The | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
most expensive upkeep is the former Magistrates' Court in Oulton, | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
costing ?10,000 a month. The facilities that existed there for | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
its users have not been replicated at the court that received the work. | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
In some instances, the buildings are not suitable for any other use other | :46:33. | :46:41. | |
than a court. In conclusion, it is unavoidable fact that savings needs | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
to be identified in the court system as our colleagues have already said. | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
One of the central talents of our common law system is the local | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
delivery of local justice with access to justice for all. Any court | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
closures must minimise the negative impact on access to justice for all | :47:01. | :47:12. | |
our citizens. Thank you. May I start off by congratulating the honourable | :47:13. | :47:24. | |
members who are on the order paper, and allowing the opportunity for | :47:25. | :47:26. | |
colleagues to debate is very important issue one more time. May I | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
also thank all the other people who have contributed. We will try to | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
refer to them as best we can in the next few minutes. May I also take | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
the opportunity to welcome the honourable member for Neath on have | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
first outing at the dispatch box and I look forward to debating with her | :47:46. | :47:52. | |
in the weeks and months ahead. I am keenly aware that members hold | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
strong views about the importance of courts in their constituencies and | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
the impact of the closure that they have on the delivery of justice. | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
This has been abundantly clear today in the numerous other parliamentary | :48:07. | :48:14. | |
debates I have had, as well as questions and meetings I have had | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
with honourable members, and letters I have written in response to the | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
correspondence that they have engaged in. I very much, Mr Deputy | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
Speaker, understand the sincerity of those concerns. I hope however that | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
honourable members will appreciate that the decision to close a court | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
is not one that I take lightly. It is a decision that I'm prepared to | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
make when it is necessary to do so to support the social reform of our | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
court and Tribunal system, and to bring the court system up to the | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
modern 21st century. We need to create a modern and flexible court | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
and tribunal service fit for the modern 21st-century as I say. Court | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
staff and the judiciary work very hard but they face challenges to | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
deliver a sufficient service when infrastructure that supports the | :49:10. | :49:11. | |
administration 's is inefficient and disjointed. | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
Some of the technology that supports services is decades old. -- courts. | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
Few services we offer can be accessed online. We continue to use | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
paper forms and when court users need to make a payment, we often | :49:29. | :49:35. | |
only accept cash or cheque. We need to modernise the way courts and | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
tribunal 's operates to reduce efficiencies. We need to open up new | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
ways for the public to access justice. The government is | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
supporting this reform with a very significant investment. ?700 million | :49:48. | :49:55. | |
over the next four years will transform the experience of everyone | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
who comes into contact with courts and the tribunal. We will provide | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
new services and deliver better more joined up ways of working across the | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
justice system. These reforms will increase access to justice by making | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
it swifter and easier to use, and more efficient. I appreciate that | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
some people have concerns about the consultation exercise that we | :50:19. | :50:25. | |
conducted, and I have apologised at the dispatch box for errors that | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
have occurred in some of the individual court areas concerned. | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
But I want to assure... I will in a moment. I want to assure the House | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
that whilst there were some inaccuracies, the decisions that | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
were finally taken were taken on the correct information and the | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
decisions were taken after careful incineration of all the submissions | :50:50. | :50:58. | |
that were made well over 2100. Thank you for giving way and I should | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
apologise for not being here for much of the debate due to other | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
parliamentary business. I don't like having to intervene on so kindly | :51:07. | :51:14. | |
Minister but frankly these closures for justice are not a policy, they | :51:15. | :51:21. | |
are a negation of a policy. -- for Chichester. Everybody understands | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
the need for financial stringency, but no economic rationales have been | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
provided, despite repeated requests, for these closures, and until it is | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
rightly, I think people will be deeply concerned about it. The court | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
using Chichester is above the national average, the travel times | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
are seriously flawed, will the Minister now at least be prepared to | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
reconsider where no economic case has been provided? I hope that I | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
will get some time in June of that intervention. -- due. My right | :51:57. | :52:06. | |
honourable friend speaks with passion and he and I have | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
corresponded much and have met many occasions. In fact, it is probably | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
fair to say that I have dreaded entering the tearoom when I knew he | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
was there because he would come along and speak to me. I think he | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
would agree that I have tried to give him the best information that I | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
can but we will have to agree to disagree in terms of the final | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
conclusion that he once. We have listened carefully and that is why, | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
in addition to the five court buildings we have maintained, we | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
have modified additional plans for a further 22 sites, and the honourable | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
lady who opens the debates, she will be mindful of that week is of course | :52:53. | :52:59. | |
the court work was going to be transferred initially to another | :53:00. | :53:01. | |
court, Wandsworth, six miles away from Lambert, but will now be just | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
two miles away at Camberwell Green, and that was a consequence of the | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
meeting we had, and engagement with the local community. -- Lambeth. In | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
eight of the 22 sites where changes have been made, we will not close | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
the court in suitable alternatives... I will shortly. | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
Until suitable local alternative provision is in place. Work is | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
underway to determine the specific provision that will be provided at | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
each of the locations. Work is underway to evaluate a number of | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
options for holding hearings away from traditional court buildings and | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
I expect further testing to take place over the coming months. Can we | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
quickly clarify whether what he had said is accurate? He's indicating | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
that all of the cases that were to be held in Putney will be helping | :53:56. | :54:03. | |
Camberwell. -- held in. How much of the 7 million budget is going to go | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
to police facilities or council facilities to make sure video link | :54:07. | :54:15. | |
is possible for people? This is a four-year reform programme, worth | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
over ?700 million, and clearly the intention is to make sure we have | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
one of the best justice systems in the world. I am not going to give | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
him the details right now in terms of the precise minutiae of breakdown | :54:27. | :54:33. | |
of a four-year programme with so much money. The honourable gentleman | :54:34. | :54:41. | |
says, I don't know but I would say to him that if he had experience | :54:42. | :54:44. | |
with business, he would know that in a four-year programme with such a | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
huge sum of money, the figures aren't as precise as he would like | :54:49. | :54:56. | |
them at the initial stage. An important aspect of this testing and | :54:57. | :54:59. | |
evaluation will be making sure any hearings that I held outside of a | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
traditional court of appropriate levels of security for the public, | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
judiciary and court staff. The issue of travel time was mentioned by a | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
number of people. What I would say is that there needs to be a | :55:14. | :55:20. | |
fundamental recognition that far fewer people would have to travel to | :55:21. | :55:28. | |
court in the first place. We intend to use modern technology, there are | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
already video conferencing facilities available, and the charge | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
made by the honourable member for need, the shadow opposition member, | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
has this been tested in any way, well, what I would say to her is | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
that we already have video conferencing facilities. -- Neath. | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
For example, there is a community centre in Wales used to give | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
evidence. What I am keen to emphasise is that we also already | :55:58. | :56:03. | |
have alternative places that are used as courts. We have had tribunal | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
's conducted on oil rigs in the North Sea. Only yesterday, a | :56:09. | :56:16. | |
colleague of ours, a lawyer, told me of probation cases that she was | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
involved in in public houses. I will give way. I don't disagree with them | :56:23. | :56:31. | |
about new technology but try asking to look at my constituency in North | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
Durham. It is nonsense that people can travel to Newcastle in 10-15 | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
minutes, instead of travelling to Peterlee. I have raised it before | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
but please look at it again because it makes no sense. There comes a | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
point when you have got to start taking decisions and you have to | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
agree to disagree. This whole programme started before last year's | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
summer recess. We had a very lengthy consultation period, I have had | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
numerous debates, I have met more people in this House than I can | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
remember, and there has been huge dialogue. I am afraid there needs to | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
be recognition that we have listened and made changes in a huge number of | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
cases. It may not be the case in your case but I'm afraid we will | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
have to agree to disagree. Mr Deputy Speaker, my honourable friend, the | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
Member for High Peak, raised concerns about the effectiveness of | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
the administration process that will see the programme through and I want | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
to emphasise to him that I will be keeping a very sharp eye on | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
proceedings and if he has any concerns with his local area, I am | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
more than happy to maintain a meeting with senior people at a | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
local level so he has the comfort he once. The honourable member for | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
Bridgend spoke of the wonderful work magistrates do in our courts and I | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
can only echo those comments and say that many of them recognised the | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
need for reform. My honourable friend, the Member for Chislehurst, | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
spoke about the very useful work of the Justice Select Committee, and he | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
also brought his own expertise to the House. He also questioned the | :58:15. | :58:21. | |
reliability of the IT projects that we will undertake and I want to | :58:22. | :58:24. | |
emphasise to him that we are taking a staged approach, and not one where | :58:25. | :58:30. | |
we are putting all our eggs into one vast, and we are bringing in expert | :58:31. | :58:40. | |
advice from outside to assist us. I will briefly give way but I must | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
make progress. Can you deal with the question about what has happened to | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
the ten courts close under the previous programme, if he doesn't | :58:49. | :58:54. | |
have the information to hand, can he look in the library? That ten is now | :58:55. | :59:02. | |
reduced to nine and there are put in place to sell some of the courts and | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
some of the courts have had genuine difficulties, and there has been | :59:08. | :59:12. | |
joint occupation with other parties and for the remaining courts, we | :59:13. | :59:14. | |
hope to transfer them to the HCA. go through a terrifying experience | :59:15. | :59:56. | |
whereas with a video conferencing facility are not | :59:57. | :00:08. | |
going out my honourable friend, I am grateful for his comments and those | :00:09. | :00:14. | |
that he made confirming that this is a genuine consultation. The | :00:15. | :00:23. | |
honourable member for Ynys Mon raised the point of digital | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
infrastructure, we will take this on board and certainly make sure that | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
it is on board to support the court reform programme. My honourable | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
friend the Member for Torbay spoke about low-level offences, like TV | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
licence offences, and he was seeking assurance that perhaps they could go | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
to a close court. Mr Deputy Speaker, the way we are thinking is that this | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
is the sort of stuff out a low-level that could probably be dealt with | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
online, for the majority of cases where people plead guilty. The | :00:57. | :01:07. | |
honourable member for Merionydd give a powerful speech and raised | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
concerns about access to justice. We are very mindful of rural areas and | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
mindful that we get it right and I am very keen that England will | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
earlier is, having a constituency with auroral element, and wishes | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
coming from. I will give way. The Minister has already mentioned | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
alternative arrangements for eight courts, could he provide more | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
details on that? The honourable lady will forgive me if I don't give | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
detailed provisions on eight courts at the dispatch box. Time is best. | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
I'm happy to write to her in detail and I certainly will do that. Mr | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
Deputy Speaker, the honourable gentleman from Hartlepool, a good | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
friend of mine, again a passionate speech, and he said he would like | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
some assurance that justice was not going to become more stressful. As I | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
have said in the comments to the honourable member Wakefield, we hope | :02:04. | :02:17. | |
that one day people will not have to travel as far, and that they will be | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
able to give evidence in a closer more convenient location. The Member | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
for Halifax, again a heartfelt speech. She spoke about technology. | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
I can assure her that we will be dealing with the ?700 million in a | :02:33. | :02:40. | |
careful way and making sure we get it right. To sum up, the honourable | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
member for Bermondsey, he raised concerns particularly for his local | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
court, I would say that while he's been passionate in defending his | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
court the consultation got only to the sponsors from this community as | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
regards his court, which perhaps, was to give him credit for wanting | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
to keep the court open, the three responses speaks for itself. The | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
honourable member for North Durham, I was pleased he welcomed the need | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
for reform, and take on board what he says, but we will have to agree | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
to disagree. And Mr Deputy Speaker in conclusion I want to conclude by | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
thanking all honourable members and the two members who have managed to | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
secure this debate today, and simply say that this is a major undertaking | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
by the Ministry of Justice and we will be doing as best we can to make | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
sure that we have a justice system fit for the world. Can I conclude by | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
wishing you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and all honourable members and all the | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
clocks are very happy Easter and for most importantly for all these | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
people that continue to ensure that this place operates, especially the | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
security services. Credit, Mr Deputy Speaker. I want to thank every | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
member who has contributed to this debate. The level of concern about | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
the decision to close it is export tribunal is clear. Referred from | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
across the chamber the concerns about physical accessibility is a | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
reason for the closures, serious problems about the use of digital | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
technology especially in areas with poor broadband. From a number of | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
members about sensitive alternative proposals which are more responsive | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
to local geography and democratics yet have been -- graphics yet have | :04:25. | :04:33. | |
been rejected, which underpins the decision about the interrelationship | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
with other public sector cuts. How can police stations provide video | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
links when in my area so many have closed that those that remain are | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
bursting at the seams. We've heard about other decisions including | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
micro and cities enters. I've brought this debate because I am | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
concerned that the decision to close 86 courts and tribunals that joined | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
up plan to continue access the justice will have the greatest | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
impact on vulnerable victims witnesses and defendants. It will | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
cause additional costs to other public sector areas and have a | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
serious impact on the effectiveness of our justice system. I'm grateful | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
to the Minister for his response, I urge him to rethink his proposals | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
and come back to the House with a comprehensive plan that addresses | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
the many concerns that have been raised. The question is, on the | :05:25. | :05:37. | |
order paper, as many of that opinion survey aye. The ayes have it, | :05:38. | :05:45. | |
almost! We don't come to the debate on matters to be raised before the | :05:46. | :05:52. | |
forthcoming adjournment. On behalf of the backbench business committee | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
may I move that this House has considered matters to be raised | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
before the forthcoming adjournment. On behalf of of the chairman of the | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
backbench business committee, who gives his apologies because he has | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
been called Web urgent constituency business. Mr Deputy Speaker, can I | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
first put on record a very sad event. Today has seen the sad death | :06:14. | :06:24. | |
of Johan Cruyff, one of the most brilliant footballers I have ever | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
watched and one who will be remembered for his famous turn. This | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
is also the festival of Beaulieu, as Jewish members will know, this | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
commemorates the delivery of the Jewish people from the Persian king. | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
He attempted the first genocide against the Jewish people and he | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
failed. And we have seen the anniversary of the soup of the rise | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
to power of Hitler in Germany where he inflicted of the rise to power of | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
Hitler, we will forever remember those evil atrocities that he | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
inflicted on the Jewish people and other people. Yet we will also | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
remember on a brighter note the festival wholly. This is the | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
festival of colours where we commemorate Lord Krishna, dancing | :07:15. | :07:15. | |
and playing and throwing colours around. But it also demonstrates the | :07:16. | :07:30. | |
delivery from the fire which is commemorated and today is the second | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
day of this festival and I wish the Hindu and Sikh people everywhere are | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
very happy festival. If I may, Mr Deputy Speaker, to recite the | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
keywords searched doing this festival. And now if I can go on, Mr | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
Deputy Speaker, to talk about some of the issues that I want to raise | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
during this debate before we break the recess. The government has done | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
an awful lot of work, yet there is much more to do. And locally. I come | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
back to the absolute requirement for the left to be installed at Stanmore | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
station. I hope the member from Leicester East, a resident of | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
Stanmore, will no doubt concur with me for this desperate need. This has | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
been going on for more than ten years, the plans for this. The north | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
face of the I go, when residents arrive home at Stanmore station, | :08:26. | :08:33. | |
having to climb 39 steep steps, it really is the 39 steps, and TEFL | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
call this step free access! This has been going on ever since the former | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
Mayor of London deleted it from the budget. And I trust that whoever is | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
elected Mayor of London on May the 5th will deliver for us a lift at | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
Stanmore which is desperately needed. Equally ruthless and other | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
challenge and Stanmore in that Hertfordshire County Council wish to | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
cancel their subsidy on the 142 and the 207 bus routes, a key | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
requirement for people travelling between Watford and Brent Cross and | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
as where. I trust that Hertfordshire County Council will see the justice | :09:14. | :09:21. | |
in that allowing a subsidy to enable their residents to travel to these | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
areas is vital because without that, key bus services to Watford will | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
clearly be dramatically reduced. We have also heard during the Budget | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
the welcome measure that Crossrail to is getting the go-ahead. And I | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
trust that Crossrail and the two will listen to this key business | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
case that we put to Harrow and Wealdstone as part of the massive | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
redevelopment of Crossrail to which is welcomed across London. I've just | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
spoken and will continue to agitate on the redevelopment of the Royal | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
National Orthopaedic Hospital in Stanmore. A brilliant hospital that | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
does brilliant work in completely ridiculous outrageous conditions for | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
the medical professionals who perform such brilliant work. I will | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
give way briefly. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Will the honourable | :10:17. | :10:25. | |
gentleman know that the radio hospital at Stanmore was Hospital | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
radio of the year, a fantastic place where I started some of my | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
journalism career and indeed which needs support. Great news but could | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
you not save that for your speech because I'm bothered about time for | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
the moment. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will take your | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
admonishment! May I just say that we are on the cusp of this | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
redevelopment. We require the trust development authority to sign of the | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
business case and then work. On the Orthopaedic Hospital immediately | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
with the demolition of existing buildings, the building of a | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
brand-new hospital, a private hospital it and the creation of 300 | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
new homes which are desperately needed in Harrow for people to live | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
in. So clearly something that is being held up by NHS bureaucracy. | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
The Chancellor granted the money in 2010 and we still await the prospect | :11:24. | :11:32. | |
of that working. On housing, we have seen some 400 new starts in my | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
constituency. With 560 new home completions in the last year alone | :11:40. | :11:41. | |
bringing new homes for people in my constituency. And I am delighted | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
that in the autumn spending review, the amount of money in spent on | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
housing has been more than doubled. Something we should applaud. | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
Locally, we have had a range of schools announced today, that part | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
high school, Saint Bernadette 's, Canon 's high school, the Krishna | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
Avanti school will all receive additional funding for massive | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
improvements, must complete rebuilding as well as the Aylward | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
school, which is in desperate need of new facilities. The reality is | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
that we have also had the go-ahead, under the enlightened view of this | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
government, of one primary school which will be the first Muslim state | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
aided school, certainly in my constituency, which is one that I | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
strongly support, and Avanti has school which will be the first state | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
aided Hindu school for secondary aged children in this country. This | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
is clearly something we can be proud of, and is being delivered in this | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
multicultural society, we are providing parents with the choice of | :12:50. | :12:57. | |
education that they want children. At ash Mac but there is bad news. | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
The garden tax has been introduced, a collection for garden waste were | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
?75 is charged to the service of collecting the garden waste, and | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
it's only corrected once every three weeks the ?75. A princely sum. At | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
the highest charge in London. A scandal because it is a monopoly | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
service and virtually no one yet has registered to use the service and | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
yet it is due to begin on April one. What an appropriate date to launch | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
such a foolish scheme! At the same time, fly-tipping and Harrow is a | :13:35. | :13:43. | |
disaster, we are seeing it all over the place, it's indeed shocking. And | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
quite clearly the council should get their act together and clean up | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
Harrow for the benefit of all people, and quite clearly if their | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
failure to do so will make it even easier for the incoming Conservative | :13:58. | :13:59. | |
administration of 2018 to deliver. raised in this house on numerous | :14:00. | :15:15. | |
occasions the plight of the disabled in securing | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
Everyday get individuals who are disabled and unable to walk any | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
reasonable distance being prevented from getting a disabled parking | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
permit. I want to mention one or two things before I sit down. I am used | :15:26. | :15:39. | |
to barrack in from the other side... Can I raise the plight, as I have | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
done during the budget debate, of the policyholders? The reality is | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
that it is to the eternal praise of the Chancellor and his team that we | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
honoured our election promise in 2010 and delivered a scheme to | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
compensate the victims of this scandal. However, the reality is | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
that we are still in the position whereby we have very vulnerable | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
people who have only received a small fraction of the amount of | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
money they would be to compared to the loss that they suffered. I | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
believe we have a debt of honour to those people and we should honour | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
that debt by delivering them 100% compensation. We also have a gap of | :16:24. | :16:31. | |
certain other categories, nearly a million people who have not received | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
for compensation. I believe those are also part of that debt of | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
honour. We need to make sure more money is provided so that those | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
people can this a proper life in retirement, because they did the | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
right thing, they saved for their retirement. Through no fault of | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
their own, because of a scandal, they were deprived of a reasonable | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
income in retirement. And I can say that we have exceeded more than 200 | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
people of the eight Pichichi in this Parliament. | :17:01. | :17:02. | |
We will continue the battle until such time as the Chancellor sees fit | :17:03. | :17:09. | |
to let us have some money for those people who are due compensation. We | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
have also recently released a report from the primary care and public | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
health group. This is a key report about signposting people within the | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
NHS. I would say very briefly, the reality is that in the primary care | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
sector, far too often, individuals who are ill, arrived at accident and | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
emergency when actually they should be seen by a doctor or a nurse in | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
the primary care Centre, in the GP centre, and we must do more to | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
ensure that they do that. On another health-related matter, namely | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
stopping smoking. I warmly welcome the decision of the Chancellor to | :17:52. | :17:58. | |
continue increasing the tobacco tax by 2% above inflation with an | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
increase of 3% on hand-rolling tobacco. That's a good move and | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
something that we should continue. However I think it's quite right | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
that we should go further. Given the Chancellor has talked about the | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
sugar tax to drive behaviour, let's have a tobacco tax that drives | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
behaviour and delivers just by increasing the tax on tobacco by a | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
penny a cigarette, we would deliver ?500 million a year that could be | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
invested in smoking cessation services. Mr Deputy Speaker, just | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
before I sit down, I will just say that I had the honour this year of | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
taking part in my first visit to India. And my visit to cashmere | :18:39. | :18:50. | |
cemented my view that this country and these people should be reunited | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
as part of India and they should have the right to be integrated and | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
that Pakistani forces should leave Pakistani occupied Kashmir. I also | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
had the opportunity of visiting the world cultural festival and saw at | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
first hand the festival, when we talk about the brilliant work done | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
in the Olympics, this had 165,000 participants who were either dancing | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
or performing and nearly 2,500,000 people attended. When we talk about | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
the grand schemes we put on, just imagine what it is like to pull back | :19:28. | :19:37. | |
together. Mr Deputy Speaker, can I wish you and the staff of the house | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
are very happy Easter. I trust that you have had chance for a break. One | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
thing I would say I am concerned about is that on Easter eggs now, we | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
never see the word Easter. They are just chocolate eggs. It is time we | :19:53. | :20:00. | |
restored the Easter to Easter eggs. Can I first of all save the question | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
is that this house has considered matters to be raised before the | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
forthcoming German, and can I now introduce a ten minute | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
It is a huge pleasure following the honourable member for Harrow East | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
who is a great champion of the ethnic minority communities. He has | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
managed to mention every festival that has occurred in every community | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
and even spoken Hindi in the house. It is a surprise it has taken him so | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
long to get to India knowing his huge friendship with the Hindu and | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
the Indian communities. I agree with what he says about Stanmore station. | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
With type two diabetes it is quite good for me to climb those 39 steps | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
at the end of every day. Can I ask him, since he is here, to take up | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
the issue of the traffic on Brockley Hill. We will not wait for his | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
response. The traffic is getting very fast. We miss having the | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
honourable member for Finchley and Golders Green as the leader of | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
Barnet Council because I know if he was there this would have been | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
sorted out. I hope he will have a word with the honourable member for | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
Hendon to see what can be done to reduce the traffic flow on the road. | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, the honourable member mentioned anniversaries and | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
festivals. I have a very sad anniversary to report to the house. | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
Saturday 26th of March marks the first anniversary of the conflict in | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
Yemen. Of course Yemen has been the subject of conflict for many, many | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
years, but it's only recently that the conflict has turned to something | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
of a civil war. The member for Glenrothes secured a debate on me | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
yesterday in Westminster Hall about this matter and I commend him and | :21:48. | :21:50. | |
others who have raised this matter in the house. In this time since the | :21:51. | :21:57. | |
start of the conflict a year ago, 8800 civilians have been killed or | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
injured, and at this moment 3 million children are out of school. | :22:03. | :22:10. | |
Access to medication in besieged areas has become virtually | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
impossible. Although I'm pleased to note the UN sponsored peace talks | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
have been rescheduled for the 18th of April in Kuwait, these talks | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
resumed some time ago before the adjournment and they can only | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
succeed with a strong support of the United Kingdom government. And I | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
urge that Deputy leader of the scum when she comes to respond, to pass | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
on the hopes of all of us that the government will give its full | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
support behind what is happening, their -- de deputy leader of the | :22:49. | :22:56. | |
house. The all-party group yesterday heard from Amnesty International and | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
the number of freelance journalist 's about the problems that still | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
occur in Yemen. The situation is a catastrophe. And it is important | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
that we work hard to resolve that conflict. I would particularly like | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
to commend other members of the group who attended that meeting. Two | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
of them born Mike myself in Yemen. The honourable member for Portsmouth | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
South, the honourable member for Walsall South and the members for | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
Glenrothes, Glasgow Central, Liverpool West, Derby, Worthing | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
insurer, and the noble Baroness Uden, all of whom took time out of | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
their very busy day to be there at the meeting when we heard this | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
terrible update from those groups. Can I say this about the budget? I | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
know it has been a subject of controversy in the house. But I | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
liked one particular aspect, and that is the introduction of the | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
sugar tax. I know Easter is not a good time to talk about not having | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
too much sugar and not eating too many chocolates but actually I want | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
to congratulate the Chancellor for taking the brave decision of | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
introducing the sugar tax, and the public health minister, the member | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
for Agassi and the diabetes are thought he has done. We should not | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
wait the two years for the tax to be imposed. Government departments can | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
act swiftly now. Simon Stephens, the chief executive of NHS England, has | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
decided to impose his own 20% sugar tax across the NHS throughout | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
England from February this year. The honourable member for Uxbridge and | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
South Ruislip, before he gets to fund that left that the honourable | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
member for Harrow wants so much, has imposed his own sugar tax in City | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
Hall. I think we need to do this pretty rapidly, and we can do it | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
even in this house. When we get to that even, to the counter to pay for | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
our bananas and apples that I'm sure we buy when we get there, do we have | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
to be confronted by club biscuits and Coca-Cola in the fridge? Let us | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
make an effort in this house to make sure that members, when they get to | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
that counter, are not suggest by those who would rather allow us to | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
have products that are full of sugar. This week the government | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
announced its national diabetes prevention programme. 100,000 people | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
will be offered places to stop them developing type two diabetes. I am | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
extremely pleased that the East Midlands has been selected, and that | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
one of the areas will be in my constituency in Leicester East. I am | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
concerned that the recent decision by the local health authority to | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
take away the deathly services from the Leicester diabetes centre, and | :25:53. | :25:59. | |
to give them to a private pharmaceutical company in order to | :26:00. | :26:01. | |
make sure that type two diabetics get that support, I think these are | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
the kinds of services that would be provided by those who have invented | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
the scheme. Desmond was invented in Leicester. And Desmond has been | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
rolled out throughout the country. Daphne, which is a scheme | :26:20. | :26:27. | |
specifically for type one diabetes is itself under pressure. So when we | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
get back after the recess I will certainly be raising the issue of | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
Desmond and Daphne again. This is essential to ensuring that we get a | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
proper service for those of us who are diabetics and those of us who | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
want to ensure that diabetes is kept under control. I want to thank the | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
deputy leader of the house for mentioning the Tiffin cup when she | :26:52. | :26:53. | |
spoke earlier today. The honourable member for Southend is one of the | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
great champions of the Tiffin cup, I think he's nominated every single | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
time since it has been in existence. Dealing with products in food that | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
are low-fat, I'm sure. I hope members when they go out for their | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
Easter holidays will make sure they get their nominations in. I want to | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
end first of all in echoing what the honourable member for Harrow East | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
said about Johan Cruyff. He was a great footballer. I want to end by | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
mentioning my own football team, the momentous season of Leicester City | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
football club, leading the Premier League since before Christmas. | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
Leicester City is also a Bastian of multiculturalism. Owned by a Thai, | :27:39. | :27:45. | |
we have an Irish chief executive, an Italian manager and players from all | :27:46. | :27:54. | |
over the world. Mahrez from Algeria, Kasper Schmeichel the great Dane, | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
Robert Huth from Germany. Ozek you from Japan. And Jeffrey Schlupp from | :28:01. | :28:10. | |
Ghana. And our own Vardy and Morgan. We have lots of home-grown players | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
as well. It is marvellous to see a team like Leicester City, which I | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
have supported for all the 29 years I have been a member of Parliament, | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
not far from your constituency indeed. Breaking the monopoly of the | :28:25. | :28:35. | |
big four. It was a sports agent who argued for a closed European | :28:36. | :28:37. | |
champions system and that only the big four should be able to get to | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
the Champions League every single year. I think Leicester City has | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
shown, whatever the results at the end of the day, and obviously I hope | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
that we will go through and lift the Premier League trophy, it is | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
important to have teams like Leicester being able to compete at | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
the highest level and indeed be at that head of the English Premier | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
League, the greatest football league in the world. So, with seven games | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
left, five points ahead, I do look forward to a very interesting two | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
weeks but I hope that even if your team is Spurs or Arsenal and you | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
want them to win the league, or West Ham, that you choose Leicester as | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
your second choice. It sounds almost like an election. But I think that | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
if we win that trophy it will be a huge boost for all those who feel | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
that dream can really be lived. Sir David Amis. Before the house | :29:33. | :29:44. | |
holed adjourns for the Easter recess and above points are to be raised | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
and if take that were here they would sing it is good to be back! | :29:51. | :29:57. | |
The happy line has now returned to the misery line. Although I am | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
delighted to hear from one of our ministers this week that the | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
Department for Transport will waive the clause in the franchise | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
agreement that states that 95% of the trains must stop at Barking, | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
West Ham and Limehouse. This will be a first move towards restoring the | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
timetable changes that have upset so many people. I have to say, Madsm | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
Deputy Speaker, shame on marginal express, writing to the chairman of | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
the Tory party complaining that I was representing my constituents. | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
They haven't heard the last of that from me and they haven't got a | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
chance now of getting the franchise for the Greater Anglia railway! I | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
happen to be the chairman of the all-party car safety group and we | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
had an excellent meeting this week and would very much like a review of | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
the guidance to building regulations which had its origin in the last | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
century to be changed. We want the Minister to look very carefully at | :30:54. | :31:02. | |
these regulations, also, we've had a meeting with the Minister of State | :31:03. | :31:10. | |
for schools about new things to be installed in schools, it is crazy | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
that this arrangement has stopped yet I am to mystic that my | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
honourable friend will change that. Thirdly, the members will be aware | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
of arrangement for PCCs and the policing and crime Bill, the | :31:24. | :31:25. | |
all-party parliament regrouped remain concerned about the impact | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
this might have on fire safety while building regulations remain in the | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
DCLG. The Chilcot Report like many other members, I am, as the kinks | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
might have said, tired of waiting for this report! It has just gone on | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
and on. The latest information is that it will be delayed until after | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
the EU referendum. I don't think that is good enough. I think the | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
families deserve better than that. I had the privilege, Madam Deputy | :31:56. | :31:57. | |
Speaker, of introducing a ten minute rule Bill on January 27 this year | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
called the driving instructors registration bill. I am delighted | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
and swiftly went through all its stages in the House of Commons, the | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
amendments that at the Bill Nick it easier for instructors to leave the | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
register without penalty and register again without compromising | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
the standard necessary to ensure safe and cupboard and instruction. | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
I'm delighted to tell the House that and is now going through the | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
relevant stages in the House of Lords and hopefully we will get | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
percent in May. So I say, it is worth pioneering a ten minute rule | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
Bill. As most of us know, south and is the alternative city of culture | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
2017. We are very excited by this. Hull has decided to have four | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
seasonal events, self and will have one every month. And the Secretary | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
of State for sport media and culture visited there recently and saw the | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
wonderful work of metal, with the first digital exhibition in a local | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
park, we've seen the opening of a wonderful new library, with at the | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
opening of the branch of the National Jazz archive, a project | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
headed by the wonderful local jazz musician Digby Fairweather. And also | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
attended recently wonderful consonants by the 70th Orchestra | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
among others so I urge all colleagues in the House, head south | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
to Southend next year and everyone will receive a royal welcome. Madam | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
Deputy Speaker, the Chairman of Ways and Means was the winner of the | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
first responsible pet ownership competition last year. In fact I | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
think he had about a dozen pets, including a you taught us. The | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
second event will take place in July -- including huge tortoise. I hope | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
that as many colleagues as possible will attend this event. Because, | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, pets should never be acquired as a fashion | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
accessory. And readers should do more to make buyers aware of the | :34:01. | :34:01. | |
duty of care due to their pets, neutering. I had the honour of | :34:02. | :34:16. | |
sponsoring Salt awareness week, suppose it ties in with sugar and I | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
was shocked to find out that much of our staple products like bread, | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
conflicts, tinned tomato soup and cheddar cheese all have apparently | :34:27. | :34:33. | |
high levels of salt in them. I think the excellent work done under the | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
Food Standards Agency when the UK lead the world in salt reduction and | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
prevented unnecessary deaths now needs to be reinvigorated by the | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
Department of Health survey can look again at setting up an independent | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
agency to regulate the amount of salt that manufacturers can add to | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
their foods. I recently met with representatives from Safer | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
Medicines. An independent group whose aim is to change the way that | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
medicines are tested so that they are safer for parents. It is an | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
absolutely excellent idea. They wish to end the testing of medicine is an | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
animal is not because of animal cruelty issues necessarily, although | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
this is a serious concern but because animal testing cannot | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
predict safe medicines that humans. Meningitis decently in the | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
constituency are present we have had the tragic death of the head girl of | :35:26. | :35:33. | |
a local school. At just 17. How the family can cope with that tragedy I | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
do not know. Vital work is being carried out by the meningitis | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
research foundation, meningitis Now. I understand 800,000 people signed a | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
petition calling for the meningitis B vaccine to be given to all | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
children at the age of 11 and there will be a debate in this place on | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
April 25. Recently, Madam Deputy Speaker, I held two health summits | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
in Southend bringing all the health providers together. My sense is that | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
they are not necessarily working that well together, and certainly | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
senior management in one two areas needs to do far better than they are | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
doing at the moment so I hope that the health summits will see the | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
quality of patient care and the delivery of health services in | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
Southend improve, just as the local authorities should be working | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
closely with all the health providers, shown by the mid and | :36:28. | :36:35. | |
South Essex success regime. Fuel poverty, I raised this this morning | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
and did a 32nd appearance on Panorama this week because I piloted | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
the warmer homes and energy conservation Bill 15 years ago and | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
it's a disappointment that fuel poverty hasn't been eliminated. I do | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
urge ministers to do all they possibly can to change this | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
situation. Like all members I have some wonderful local companies, an | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
independent company has been trading for almost ten years and now employs | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
25 staff across four branches. By recently visited their newly | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
finished offices which indicates the confidence that they have, and their | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
company has been awarded employer of the year and apprentice of the and I | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
also attended the opening of the new removals business and celebrated | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
with another company that had been in business, for 40 years. So I am | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
delighted that the government included in the budget one measure | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
that was popular and have decided to change the business rate on small | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
outlets. That will make a huge difference. Recently I went with an | :37:39. | :37:47. | |
all-party delegation to see it first hand, not what celebrities saying to | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
it like saying is happening and the Maldives but what is happening. We | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
went everywhere. We saw the present where the former ex-president is | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
being held at the moment. The all-party parliamentary group had a | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
meeting yesterday. A report was published. I do hope the government | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
will look carefully at its findings. This week, and also the all-party | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
alimentary group on the Philippines and I met a wonderful woman who is | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
the founder of the National women's coalition, and she was into mental | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
in helping to respond -- instrumental in helping to respond | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
to the terrible disaster in the Philippines. The government have | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
done an excellent job there and I urge full support for the | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
humanitarian summit coming up in Istanbul. Am delighted that Chase | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
high school, Westcliff high school for girls, they are getting more | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
money. I end with presumably joining with everyone at celebrating the | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
Queen's 90th birthday next year. We had a president from 1997 to 2010, | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
for ten years anyway, and it wasn't a great success. I think the Queen | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
is fantastic, and I congratulate one colleague, whose idea it was to have | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
the project Clean For The Queen, I think she is an example to each and | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
every one of us when she made the broadcast and said, however long her | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
life is, she would do everything she could for her nation. I wish you | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker and everyone else very happiest. Mark Williams. | :39:27. | :39:37. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, firstly, thank you for initiating this debate, the | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
honourable member for Harrow East. This is a general debate if only | :39:43. | :39:50. | |
because we did not hear at Christmas time about the south-west, and from | :39:51. | :39:57. | |
the member from South West, I'm reminded every week as a possible | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
post-office run by his excellent cousin, Miss Janice Pocock. He has | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
spoken on many issues. I will speak on one. An issue of concern to me | :40:08. | :40:21. | |
and one particular constituent of mine, Mr Michael Afonso, and his | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
dealings with the Home Office. It is a personal story and I will use my | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
time to tell his story and the nature of it. He was born in | :40:29. | :40:36. | |
Tanzania, has lived here for 30 years and is married to British | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
natural and his concerns over his British citizenship are not yet | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
resolved. I believe that there are many other cases of British National | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
is with spices from overseas who have sought British citizenship for | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
years and perhaps do not fit the conventional mould of immigration | :40:53. | :40:59. | |
cases. Mr Afonso was born in Tanzania, in 1969, and not long | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
after his birth he was taken in by a lady who raised him as her own and | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
he lived happily with her family the first 15 years of his life in the | :41:07. | :41:14. | |
foothills of Mount Kilimanjaro. In 1984 his biological mother visited | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
their relationship was rekindled and they came to Britain, she was | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
married to a British citizen. Michael remembers arriving in the UK | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
and being questioned by border agency officials at the airport and | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
then moved to Kettering and was established with the family of his | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
biological mother and their new husband although the adoption by the | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
new stepfather seems never to have taken place. Despite the challenges | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
of moving to a new country, he did settle in, but in 1986 problems | :41:46. | :41:52. | |
emerged in the family and through no fault of his own he was taken into | :41:53. | :42:01. | |
care and an offhand denture social services, he said at the time he | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
wanted to return to Tanzania as the lady he saw as his mother, although | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
the court said that because he had never been legally adopted he had to | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
stay in this country, the country of his biological mother. That is, this | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
country, even though he had been removed from her care. He spent some | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
time at a children's home in Kettering and was subsequently sent | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
to foster care. Aged 18 he moved out and spent years living | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
independently, went to college, got an NVQ in painting and decorating | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
and lived in the area for many years. Some years later the lady who | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
had brought him up in Tanzania moved to the UK and settled in Wales, | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
where he moved to, settling in my constituency. By 2008, he had met | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
his future wife Sian, and they set up home together in the Ceredigion | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
constituency. Although troubles arose when they decided to get | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
married. As he had entered the UK as a miner from Tanzania he held no | :43:01. | :43:07. | |
official paperwork himself. He recalled a birth certificate and a | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
Tanzania passport yet while living in Kettering years before moving to | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
Wales, a fire at his flat had destroyed his paperwork including | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
his passport. At the time Sian and Michael Wasley king marriage they | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
were not able to get married without proof of his nationality -- that is | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
when they were seeking marriage. That is when I first got involved in | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
his case. We struggled to find any information from anywhere, any | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
official documentation, about his life. We made inquiries of | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
Nottinghamshire social services to find out if anything had been done | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
about citizenship under his care and to the Tanzania embassy to ask about | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
his passport, we used various Freedom of information requests and | :43:52. | :43:53. | |
yet we hit brick wall after brick wall. | :43:54. | :44:01. | |
There was no information as to the date or where he was sent and that | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
lack of information has subsequently been acknowledged by the Home | :44:07. | :44:13. | |
Office. It seemed as though the aspirations for marriage would not | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
be realised. But the rules did change so in October 2011 the couple | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
were married. All seemed well, life settled down, the couple bought a | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
home, Michael was heavily involved in our community and very much a | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
valued member of the community, now elected community councillor. I | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
would suggest the identikit community activist. He became | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
manager of the local British Red Cross shop. At that point problems | :44:42. | :44:51. | |
emerged as, not unreasonably, he started to get requests from the | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
human resources department to prove his eligibility to work within the | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
United Kingdom. Something he had come across in all the years | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
previously. As a non-British citizen he requires biometric residence | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
card. He contacted the Home Office and was told he would need proof he | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
resided in the UK with no lengthy times away. Of course he hadn't been | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
away because he hadn't a passport. For someone unaware of that | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
stipulation it was very difficult to prove but we had some successes in | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
finding some information from the health board in Northamptonshire and | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
my own health board. And Michael was assiduous in keeping records, P 45 | :45:30. | :45:37. | |
and P 60s. He set about applying for a no limit application. They paid | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
the cost to go to the previous service centre in Cardiff, spending | :45:42. | :45:48. | |
?104 on the form and ?400 for the privilege of priority centre | :45:49. | :45:51. | |
meeting. The couple really thought they were on the cusp of securing | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
which is citizenship. Despite the gathering of the documentation they | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
had, including they had at long last notice of care proceedings that he | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
had been removed from his biological mother's care. They were told that | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
because he had no information on self, no proof of entering the | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
country, he was in fact an illegal immigrant. Subsequent events meant | :46:12. | :46:18. | |
that mercifully that accusation was retracted. Despite the fact he | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
resided in this country for over 30 years, despite the fact he paid his | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
taxes and national insurance contributions, was a valued member | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
of the community and married to a British national, he faced that | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
allegation. They met some sympathy from UK BA and when they showed UK | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
beer copies of letters that I'd written on their behalf in 2009 on | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
the issue of marriage, proof the couple had sought to resolve the | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
issue. They were offered an alternative to the full | :46:50. | :46:51. | |
naturalisation process meaning that he would have to reapply for leave | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
to remain every two and a half years, the next one being in 2017, | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
at a cost of 500 years each time until he had ten years worth of | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
visas. After ten years he may be eligible for richer citizenship. But | :47:08. | :47:15. | |
he would be able to receive any recourse to public funds which was | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
confirmed to me in a letter from the Immigration Minister in 2015. So | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
this man has paid national insurance and tax for 30 years, he has been | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
entitled to jobseeker's allowance in the past, he is now denied an | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
automatic right to benefits unless special circumstances emerge. I have | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
to say that he feels incredibly let down by this state of affairs and | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
has taken a serious toll on his health, compounded by the fact that | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
despite being seriously ill and unable to work, his biometric | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
residency card states that he has no automatic recourse to public funds. | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, the Home Office to date has been reluctant to | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
look into this matter in great depth, seeming intent to stick to | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
its original decision that he may have to wait until 2024 to achieve | :48:08. | :48:14. | |
full citizenship. Much of the debate on immigration these days is | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
characterised by people who are wishing and needing to come to this | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
country. We have all worked on many of those cases in our | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
constituencies. This case is about the injustice that has been | :48:29. | :48:30. | |
perpetrated against someone who is already here through no fault of his | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
own, has faced many challenges. Who came here as a minor. And various | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
agencies that were charged with his care could not address the issue of | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
citizenship, and who is now a valued member of our community, now in | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
adulthood he is trying to right a wrong, and aspires to do the right | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
thing. But has faced the real problem in trying to find, trying to | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
trace his own identity. The letter I had from the Immigration Minister | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
said last year "I am sure you will understand that it is not possible | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
to agree to indefinitely to remain for somebody that doesn't hold the | :49:11. | :49:16. | |
necessary documentation" and the minister refused to meet me to | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
discuss the matter further. I do understand what the minister said | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
but I think it represents a great injustice. In this case the lack of | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
documentation has not been the responsibility of my constituents. | :49:28. | :49:35. | |
One last sentence. I just asked the deputy leader of the house to pursue | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
this matter once again with the Home Office, to ask them to look again at | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
this issue, not just the issue of recourse to public funds in the case | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
of illnesses, but his right to remain in the United Kingdom. Thank | :49:48. | :49:55. | |
you Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a pleasure to follow the honourable | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
gentleman who outlined the case so typical of many that all of us face, | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
the complexities of the bureaucracy that we have to get through. The | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
right on the gentleman from Leicester East is no longer in his | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
place but he referred to Leicester City and their good fortune this | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
year. As someone who has always had a soft spot for Arsenal amongst the | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
Premier League teams I am somewhat reluctant to praise Leicester, but | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
since Arsenal are almost certainly not going to get the top spot, like | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
most people, I think we want to see Leicester triumph, which gives me an | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
opportunity to talk about the triumphs of Grimsby town. The | :50:37. | :50:43. | |
honourable labia opposite is not in -- the honourable lady opposite. | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
They are in the final of the FA Trophy where yet again they will | :50:49. | :50:51. | |
march down towards what were the twin towers, we hope for victory. | :50:52. | :50:59. | |
And of course Grimsby town do actually play in Cleethorpes. And | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
Cleethorpes is also in the headlines yet again. Like Southend we have | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
even more culture, we are the premier resort of the East Coast. | :51:10. | :51:16. | |
Cleethorpes peer has just been nominated for peer of the year. I | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
think it is worth putting on record our congratulations to Brian Huxford | :51:22. | :51:27. | |
and his team who have just carried out a multi-million pound | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
restoration which has been a real addition to the resort. Also secured | :51:32. | :51:38. | |
some resources from the regional growth fund. So we have all made a | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
contribution to the renewal of Cleethorpes peer. Multi-million | :51:44. | :51:50. | |
pound investment compares with the ?8,000 in costs to construct the | :51:51. | :51:59. | |
peer when it opened in 1873. If I could move onto the main thrust of | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
my contribution which yet again is to do with transport connections | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
Northern Lincolnshire, to highlight a recent report, a joint report | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
between the Department for Transport and transport for the North. It is | :52:16. | :52:22. | |
about a Northern powerhouse. The only thing is it does not seem to | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
referred to Northern Lincolnshire. I have been a great supporter of the | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
northern powerhouse initiative, and I know that ministers have | :52:33. | :52:40. | |
repeatedly emphasised the fact that Northern Lincolnshire and the | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
history are very much part of that. Humber is the energy history. It is | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
particularly important to the whole of the economy. We are reminded time | :52:50. | :52:55. | |
and time again, in order to maximise local economies, you must have good | :52:56. | :53:02. | |
transport connections. Devolution is fine and I have been a great | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
advocate for it, particularly in the recent greater Lincolnshire deal | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
that has been secured. But the problem is that the government may | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
have ideals but as it cascades through the system they are reliant | :53:16. | :53:23. | |
on organisations who may have slightly different priorities to | :53:24. | :53:30. | |
their own. The opening remarks in the foreword to this report jointly | :53:31. | :53:38. | |
signed by the Secretary of State and Richard Leese, the chairman of this | :53:39. | :53:40. | |
partnership says that creating the northern powerhouse of economic | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
growth, driven by a flourishing private sector and supported by | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
innovative local government requires us to harness and unify the people | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
Power of our city regions of the wider North. The North has many | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
centres of excellence increasingly recognised on a global stage. It | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
goes on to list them beginning in Liverpool and ending in the Tees | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
Valley but not a mention of Lincolnshire. Sir David Higgins, who | :54:07. | :54:16. | |
is the chairman when he took up his post as chairman of HS two said | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
there was huge untapped potential for more trade and commerce across | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
the Pennines. What repeatedly we keep hearing about trans-Pennine | :54:25. | :54:31. | |
connections that seemed to emphasise the northern trans-Pennine route | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
when my constituency in Northern Lincolnshire is dependent on the | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
South transport nine route. We are served on the whole reasonably well | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
by trans-Pennine express. The word express is used loosely I think | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
since it takes three and a half hours to get from Cleethorpes to | :54:50. | :54:57. | |
Manchester and it covers the 50 miles from Cleethorpes to Doncaster | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
which the honourable lady and I have to do every week in order to get our | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
connection down to King's Cross. It takes one hour and a quarter. Which, | :55:05. | :55:12. | |
for 2000 and... Where are we? 16 now, aren't we? Transforming city to | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
rail to rail connectivity east to west as well as north to South is | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
one of the main aims of government policy and indeed of the transport | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
for the North. But in order to maximise that, we do need much | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
better rail connections. I have repeatedly been campaigning for | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
direct services between Grimsby, Cleethorpes and London's King's | :55:43. | :55:46. | |
Cross. There is an application that has been with the rail regulator for | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
two years now. And speaking of bureaucracy as I was earlier. Does | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
it really take two years to assess whether this is a viable service? I | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
realise that the problems that face the rail regulator, open access | :56:03. | :56:12. | |
operators such as Alliance rail putting forward this proposal will | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
have to show evidence that they are creating new business rather than | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
taking it away from the main franchise holders. But I do urge the | :56:19. | :56:25. | |
rail regulator to a speedy convolution, even if it is a -1, we | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
can move on and renew the campaign through a different route. Road | :56:30. | :56:37. | |
connections do fare slightly better in this document. And it does | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
acknowledge the importance of access to our ports. And the port in my | :56:43. | :56:49. | |
constituency is, measured by tonnage, the largest in the country. | :56:50. | :56:55. | |
25% of rail freight starts or ends in giving. And yet when it comes to | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
the road connections, we have struggled in as much should as the | :57:00. | :57:07. | |
M1 ATMs about 20 miles from the port. We do urgently need an upgrade | :57:08. | :57:18. | |
of the A180 to motorway standard, and we need to improve the road | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
surface. One of these awful concrete surfaces. Villages two miles away | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
you can sit in their front room and hear the constant rumble of vehicles | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
over the road. That is something I have been campaigning and my | :57:33. | :57:35. | |
predecessor was campaigning on and her predecessor was campaigning | :57:36. | :57:38. | |
about. It really does need urgent attention. The document refers, | :57:39. | :57:48. | |
quite reasonably, to the upgrade of the A160 which provides new access. | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
But I have to tell the house that it is almost complete. It will be | :57:55. | :58:00. | |
complete by August, September time. So it is hardly a vision for the | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
future. If I could pick out one or two other points from the report. | :58:06. | :58:17. | |
Going back to rail. "Many Rail journeys in the North are too slow | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
and take far longer than journeys of equivalent distance elsewhere in the | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
country. Three hours from Cleethorpes to Manchester, as I | :58:29. | :58:30. | |
mentioned, is not exactly a trans-Pennine express. Could I urge | :58:31. | :58:36. | |
my honourable friend on the front bench to pass my comments to the | :58:37. | :58:43. | |
appropriate ministers, and I look forward to a detailed response from | :58:44. | :58:44. | |
them in due course, thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It | :58:45. | :58:54. | |
is a pleasure to follow the honourable gentleman from | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
Cleethorpes. I have sponsored a motion praying that the Social | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
Security benefits stopped rating regulations that affect frozen | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
pensions be annulled. This has been supported by 93 members across eight | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
parties represented in the House including the governing party. It | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
is, Madam Deputy Speaker, a pity that the government have yet agreed | :59:17. | :59:21. | |
to debate this matter and I wonder how money members we need to sign a | :59:22. | :59:24. | |
motion before they will do so. I would contend that the regulations | :59:25. | :59:31. | |
which affect the adjustment to the state pensions is being forced | :59:32. | :59:34. | |
through this House without proper debate. The decision to freeze | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
pensions for a further year comes into effect in April while this | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
House is in recess. I believe the House should have the opportunity to | :59:45. | :59:48. | |
debate this matter, at least 550,000 UK pensioners facing hardship as | :59:49. | :59:54. | |
well as acting to discourage many UK citizens living in the UK to return | :59:55. | :59:58. | |
to their country of origin as many wish to do on retirement. The UK is | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
the only country in the OECD that freezes pensions in this way. There | :00:04. | :00:09. | |
is also Madam Deputy Speaker no consistency as to how overseas | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
British pensioners are treated. Due to a historic bilateral deal | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
pensioners in many countries to get an app rated pension for example in | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
the USA. If you live in the Virgin Islands you get a UK pension and the | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
full rate. In the British Virgin Islands your pension will be frozen. | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
The government argues that pensions are operated to those living in | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
countries where the UK has Social Security agreement. The UK does not | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
need an agreement with any country to pay a pension. The UK does not | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
need any extra money, nothing to do with them if a UK citizen gets a | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
pension or not. How on earth can the government substantiate this? Let me | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
give three examples as to how pensioners are affected. Mr Bonucci | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
nos 73 moved from India to Glasgow in 1960. He worked in the UK for 38 | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
years in shipbuilding and steel Manufacturing and the food industry. | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
He also owned a restaurant for six years. He went back to India in 1997 | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
and reached retirement age in 2008 when the pension was ?87 30 a week. | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
Having made all the required national insurance contributions if | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
he was still in the UK today you would get ?115.95, 20% more. The | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
decline in his income has often concerned about losing his home. He | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
now feels he might have to move back to the UK. We take young, 78, lives | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
in Peterborough, she retired in 2002 aged 67 after a long career in | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
market research and is community volunteer. The sun moved to | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
Australia sometime ago and has family there. Since being widowed | :01:51. | :01:57. | |
she has wanted to join her son and grandchildren in Australia yet has | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
felt unable to do so due to a frozen pension prospect. As she gets older, | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
she finds her daily life increasingly difficult, as she does | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
not have a family around her. She is, Madam Deputy Speaker, deeply | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
saddened that she cannot be with her family in the later stages of her | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
life. It seems unfair that the government can just stop operating | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
because she says she wants to be with her family. And lastly former | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
college lecturer, now 91, lived and worked in the UK all her life, | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
paying mandatory national insurance contributions throughout this time. | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
In 2002, aged 77 she retired and decided to move to Canada to be with | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
her daughter and grandchildren in Calgary. 14 years on, and, who was | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
an intelligence officer in the women's Navy in the Second World War | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
is struggling to live on a frozen pension of ?75 20 a week. She now | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
feels she will be forced to move back to Britain because a pension | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
will no longer cover daily expenses and she is increasingly reliant on | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
her daughter to get by. Madam Deputy Speaker, this cannot be right, this | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
cannot be justice. As she herself says, it is the small things and the | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
injustices that are getting to me. I value my independences I can't go on | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
living on the breadline and I don't want to inflict this on my family. | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
As well as ever-increasing poverty and feel a sense of stress and shame | :03:25. | :03:33. | |
that is affecting my health. Madam Deputy Speaker, there are also the | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
implications of the forthcoming referendum, 4000 UK pensioners | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
living in EU countries. The question of additional numbers facing the | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
freezing of the pension is worthy of debate and we need answers from the | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
government as to what would happen in the event of Brexit. Will these | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
pensioners also face a freezing of their pension? I hope when we return | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
from recess that the House will have the chance to debate this matter | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
fully giving the government the chance to reflect on this injustice. | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
They ought to withdraw this measure and pay UK pensioners at home and | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
abroad they do state pension with the same adjustment in the interests | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
of fairness and equality and on that note I want to wish you, Madam | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
Deputy Speaker, happy Easter to all in this House and the hope that all | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
our pensioners, wherever they live, can also have a happy Easter and | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
that this injustice can be dealt with. Thank you, it is an honour to | :04:30. | :04:37. | |
follow the honourable gentleman and the others who have spoken and I | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
want to thank the backbench committee for organising this debate | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
and my honourable friends from Harrow and from Southend West on a | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
commitment to this institution which I'm glad to see is reinstated. My | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
thoughts and prayers as we approach Good Friday with all those around | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
the world, from Belgium to Turkey, Syria to Jordan and Iraq and so many | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
other places who are suffering from mankind 's capacity for evil. But at | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
the same time I believe as a Christian that evil will not triumph | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
as a result of the resurrection of Christ on Easter Sunday. Earlier | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
this month, colleagues and I on the international development committee | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
met several hundred people from Nigeria who have been driven from | :05:24. | :05:26. | |
their homes by Boko Haram. They were in a makeshift camp, being helped, | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
not by international organisations but by ordinary Nigerians, | :05:35. | :05:36. | |
Christians and Muslims working together. My honourable friend from | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
Congleton was there beside me. They had set up a school that was a | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
church. They were far from home but they had hoped that they could soon | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
return to their homes. Our visit to Nigeria also showed why our | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
country's commitment to international develop and is so | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
important. Carnot is a city of millions with a long and | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
distinguished history yet it has finished greatly -- suffered greatly | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
from terrorism. Yet its people full of spirit and the UK is with them | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
supporting schools, the training of midwives, economic development and | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
the battle against neglected tropical diseases, malaria and other | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
ills. We met a group of girls and women and asked how things were | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
compared with one year ago. Spontaneously they replied that they | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
were much better, they had a real hope for the future. We visited one | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
primary school, the largest in West Africa, with 13,000 students, and | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
saw committed teachers teaching a strong curriculum developed with the | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
support of the UK. We also went to an Islamic school which with UK help | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
and started teaching maths, English, science and other subjects to girls | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
and boys together. It was delightful to see that one of the songs written | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
on the blackboard for the children to learn was the hokey Cokie! In the | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
midst of a serious matter of educating the next generation there | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
was time for play and song. That brings me to the importance of play | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
and sport in my constituency. Last weekend the stuff and half marathon | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
and fun run had more entrants than ever. The number of people taking | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
part in sport continues to rise. Stafford town FC under the dynamic | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
chairmanship of Gordon Evans has 31 teams and a waiting list and I have | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
the honour of being honorary president. Club will soon start to | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
install a 3G pitch, welcome improvement. Yet elsewhere we face a | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
loss of sports facilities. The sale of the large Staffordshire | :07:40. | :07:41. | |
University campus to an investor from China for educational purposes | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
currently means that the sports centre that used by thousands of my | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
constituents every week we'll close to the public this summer. There are | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
also pictures that may be lost, we've written to the new investor | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
and the University to urge that sport pitches continue to be made | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
available to the public and I would ask the Minister for sport further | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
support that this happens in this Olympic year. More recently we found | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
a pub handing over of the stately home and estate may mean the loss of | :08:11. | :08:18. | |
football and cricket pitches used by several teams from nearby villages | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
and elsewhere. The National Trust wishes to return the field, which is | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
a very small part of the estate, to 18th century parkland. I am a member | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
and a fan of the National Trust and I know its stewardship of the area | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
will be in the best interests of the estate yet our literature must be a | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
living one. After all the West Coast Main line passes through the middle | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
of the estate, constructed with the permission of the then owner of | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
Lichfield was no problem in combining 18th-century capability | :08:50. | :08:51. | |
Brown parkland with 19th-century steam trains and no 21st century | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
pendant he knows. I'm sure that the estate workers would have played | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
football and cricket so why not let those sports, whose history is older | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
than the National Trust's estate, to continue on site, I urge the | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
National Trust to think again. When the Earl of Lichfield in the railway | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
to come through he did so on condition that it should not be | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
visible from his home so cut and cover tunnel was constructed, still | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
there today. The builders will rise and they acted on concerns of local | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
residents, in this case the olive Lichfield. If railway builders of | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
the 19th century could listen to him I am sure that in these more | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
democratic days they can listen to me and my constituents. HS2 passes | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
through several villages and it does so because of the unnecessary lust | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
for ultrahigh speed and hence the requirement for an arrow straight | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
route. If they would can't be changed and I firmly believe that | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
there are alternatives which would meet passenger forecasts, we wish to | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
see considerably more tunnelling to protect them from the worst of the | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
impact, as it did the Earl of Lichfield 200 years ago. Yet in the | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
latest proposal the one tunnel proposed in Hopton has been removed. | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
There's plenty of opportunity for tunnelling in Stafford, the depth of | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
the proposed cutting shows this and our UK tunnelling expertise is | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
world-class. I urge that government to listen to us as their | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
predecessors did the year of Richfield. It's missed a year and a | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
half since Stafford Hospital, Nether County Hospital, came together with | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
the Royals took a hospital as part of the University Hospital of the | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
North and Midlands trust. I want to pay to beat to the staff who helped | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
make such a difficult transition as smooth as possible. It's a tribute | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
to their dedication that we have a hospital that offers high standards | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
of care. For months the egg and the Department has been one of the best | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
performing in the country, regularly achieving until recently the target | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
from patients. It is now under further pressure as the number of | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
people attending as risen to as many being seen today as were previously | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
seen, this shows how important it is to maintain the consultant led A E | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
at the hospital. One of the proposals in 2013 which my | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
constituents argued against was to remove consultant led A E. Thank | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
goodness common sense prevailed. I still maintain as did the Secretary | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
of State that a return to 20 47 emergency opening has to can -- | :11:32. | :11:39. | |
24-7. I understand the constraints and the safety concerns but I | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
welcome the fact that the refurbished A E department will be | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
capable of 20/7 opening as I believe that will be essential. We also lost | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
our paediatrics and maternity care. What has replaced them is an | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
emergency children's department and midwife led maternity unit. Although | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
there has been sadness at the loss of the largest services my | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
constituents using the new units have been full of praise for the | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
care that they and their children receive from the stuff. I want to | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
work with the trust gradually to build these services back-up. The | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
investment in the county hospital which has gone on and will continue | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
goes on and I would like to thank my right honourable friend the | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
Secretary of State for his support. We'll have refurbished wards, | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
dialysis and chemotherapy suites, A dialysis and chemotherapy suites, A | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
E, the children's emergency centre, a new MRI scanner, a first | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
the area, is in operation. Will effectively have a new hospital in | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
an old building without the burden of PFI and I think the government | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
for this investment but buildings are nothing without people. We must | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
continue to put the care and safety of patients at the forefront. I pay | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
tribute to the staff for doing just that. Madam Deputy Speaker, | :13:02. | :13:03. | |
businesses are thriving in Stafford with employment at record highs. | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
General electric Kallstrom is building a factory, Higgins and | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
Bostick continue to invest and JCB now has a strong presence after its | :13:14. | :13:21. | |
purchase of broad crime. Mid sized manufacturers show that what would | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
be called the middle strand of business in Germany is alive and | :13:28. | :13:29. | |
well in Stafford. The digital economy is expanding with companies | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
recruiting almost continuously. So much so that we now have the group | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
that meets regularly to see how we can improve the digital economy in | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
Stafford. The advent of another Signal Regiment and the tactical | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
supply wing of the RAF means we have almost 2000 servicemen and women | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
based in the town, they are already making a great contribution to life | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
in Stafford and a tummy they appreciate the warm welcome. | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker want to raise the issue of the road | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
infrastructure and Stafford. We've seen improvements like the four | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
lanes of the M6 from junction ten a but we need the Western access road | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
and we need many other small and large improvements to the roads | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
network in order to provide the growth that we are seeing in | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
Stafford. I would like to wish you Madam Deputy Speaker are very happy | :14:24. | :14:24. | |
Easter. Always a pleasure to follow the | :14:25. | :14:33. | |
honourable member for Stafford, whose sincerity in serving both his | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
constituents and concern for the poorest across the globe, | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
particularly in Africa, is unparalleled. I want to speak in | :14:44. | :14:50. | |
support of middle which in my constituency, and to champion its | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
irrefutable claim for government funding for a bypass. A bypass that | :14:56. | :15:06. | |
has been 20 years in the waiting. Planning permission was first | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
granted two decades ago. One hardly needs to imagine how come if traffic | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
was pressured then, how much more pressured it is now. To travel | :15:15. | :15:26. | |
through Middlewich, not just at peak time, one can justifiably described | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
traffic congestion as chronic. It is the worst in my constituency by far. | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
It has an exceptionally strong community spirit, high level of | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
volunteering, with a host of community events taking place | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
throughout the year. There is an annual festival which attracts up to | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
25,000 people in a week, almost doubling the population of the town. | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
It is the largest event in the country celebrating canals and the | :16:00. | :16:01. | |
narrow boats on them, and the culture surrounding them. These are | :16:02. | :16:10. | |
very much grass-roots events. Others include the festival celebrating the | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
Roman heritage of the town. The good Neighbours scheme. The car and bike | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
show. The national town crier competition. Cider festivals. | :16:20. | :16:26. | |
Heritage open days. And the nationally recognised Middlewich | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
clean team of over 200 residents regularly out keeping the town | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
tightly, of which I consider myself to be a promoter of the alleged -- a | :16:34. | :16:45. | |
privileged member. Middlewich Is an aspirational town. Saint Michaels | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
Church is involved in a ?1.2 million generation scheme which will open up | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
the church for community use. Community leaders across the town | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
recently concluded a new town branding scheme, and Middlewich high | :17:02. | :17:03. | |
school is fortunate to have a visionary headmaster. However, over | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
recent decades, Middlewich has simply not had the investment it | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
deserves from wider authorities to enable it to realise its substantial | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
untapped potential. There's been a huge amount of grassroots energy and | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
commitment from local townspeople. They deserve greater support. There | :17:24. | :17:32. | |
is indeed space for enterprise and development to grow within | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
Middlewich. Middlewich wants growth, it would welcome it, and it once | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
development. It would welcome house and development. It is essential | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
that we see greater investment for Middlewich and that is why I have | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
campaigned for it since my election in 2010 and why I am now very | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
pleased to say to the house that the potential for Middlewich to make a | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
substantial contribution to local and regional growth has now been | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
recognised more widely. I am delighted that not only the | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
townsfolk of Middlewich but also Cheshire East Council are announcing | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
Middlewich as a key town for development with potential for | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
growth. This is important because as the government's transport for the | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
North report produced this month, "It is important to ensure economic | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
benefits are spread across the North to deliver the vision of the | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
northern powerhouse. The development opportunities are better connected | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
to contribute to and benefit from key towns." If this aspiration is to | :18:35. | :18:44. | |
be realised, it is essential that Middlewich receives greater | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
investment. And that, importantly, means that we need the Middlewich | :18:51. | :18:58. | |
Eastern bypass. If I can just unpack why this is so important. It is a | :18:59. | :19:12. | |
major highway scheme and it would involve supporting over 2000 new | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
homes in and around Middlewich. It would make a considerable | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
contribution to the Cheshire East local plan. It would be a boost to | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
existing businesses who employ 4500 people in Middlewich, and according | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
to figures from Cheshire East, create a further 6500 jobs. That is | :19:35. | :19:41. | |
why it is so important the government consider supporting this | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
major highway scheme by allocating funding from the ?475 million local | :19:46. | :19:53. | |
majors fund. Local areas are invited to make further bids by the | :19:54. | :19:55. | |
Chancellor in his budget statement last week. I am recording now a | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
request on behalf of Middlewich for funding from that fund with the | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
support of Cheshire East Council. This is a fund for large local | :20:09. | :20:15. | |
transport schemes. That applies to this bypass. It is a ?30 million | :20:16. | :20:24. | |
project and it is a high priority. In addition to solving serious | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
congestion issues which this bypass would help, locally it would also | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
solve many regional transport problems. Cheshire East Council | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
state that Middlewich is the worst pinch point on the A54 corridor. A | :20:39. | :20:48. | |
bypass would help relieve this and tackle a number of road safety | :20:49. | :20:50. | |
issues in the town which have been the cause of great local concern for | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
many years. It would provide the bypass scheme involves, as I think | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
it should, local improvements, it would address improving the | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
challenges on low in Street, the directory, Saint Michael 's way. | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
Improvements to these are vital to protect pedestrian safety and | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
improve pedestrian access to the town centre. A bypass would provide | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
better routes for heavy goods vehicle, and a better link to the | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
motorway under construction. The very considerable investment being | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
made in that to relieve congestion there, there is no point in that if | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
only for vehicles to move up the M6 and find they are stranded, | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
stationery along the road as they come off the M6. It would also | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
improve access to a chest to when it opens. -- improvement of access to | :21:52. | :22:06. | |
HS2. The work involved will involve additional construction traffic. And | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
the improvement of this bypass and the construction of this bypass is | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
essential if the region as a whole, not to mention the town, is going to | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
be blighted by that construction traffic. Even more widely, if I can | :22:22. | :22:29. | |
turn to the fact that this week the right honourable member, the | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
Minister for Housing, attended the International conference in Cannes | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
and launched the Northern Gateway development prospectus. This sets | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
out ambitious proposals for Southeast Cheshire with a station at | :22:50. | :22:56. | |
Crewe. These proposals are exciting. They will develop the local economy. | :22:57. | :23:06. | |
This prospectus, the plans developed, have the potential to | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
unlock major growth and investment opportunities which could build | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
100,000 homes by 2040, by creating a growth zone at the connecting | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
gateway to the northern powerhouse and the Midlands engine. Situated as | :23:23. | :23:29. | |
it is directly between the two. Middlewich is so important because | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
Middlewich sits very much as a focal point within this development area. | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
Whilst the proposals are exciting and will deliver significant | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
benefits to the economy, I understand from the letter that one | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
of the consequences of the amount of traffic travelling through | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
Middlewich, a town that already experiences such high levels of | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
congestion at such peak times, that this traffic could rise by up to 90% | :23:55. | :24:03. | |
if these plans are developed. The LEP is concerned that its growth | :24:04. | :24:11. | |
achievements will not happen without the bypass. Could I ask ministers to | :24:12. | :24:20. | |
look at how to, with some joined up thinking, improve the connectivity | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
for the region by funding the Middlewich Eastern bypass. Thank you | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. A pleasure to be called to join in this debate. | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
The sugar tax has been mentioned by the Right Honourable member for | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
Leicester East. Alongside the wonderful football team. Burning off | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
the energy of sugar very important. I will come onto that. It is a | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
concern in my constituency, diabetes, we have one of the second | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
largest amount of amputees in Eastleigh as a result of diabetes | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
impact. Many of my residents are affected by concerns of potentially | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
two new fast food places and a car showroom being placed on the old | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
council buildings and court areas. I do ask the local council to think | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
again when we are in need of such an important amount of homes in a site, | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
whether a planning application so close to two secondary schools is | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
very sensible. But we are a fit area in Eastleigh. It was the 32nd | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
running of the Eastleigh ten K over the weekend. Sadly a toe injury put | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
paid to my running this year. And I do not joke, I did run last year, | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
but it was much warmer. 2800 runners took part. It was a record field. I | :25:46. | :25:52. | |
enjoyed giving out the medals to the little people doing their two K. I | :25:53. | :26:05. | |
was really very impressed. It was once again covered by the excellent | :26:06. | :26:12. | |
Eastleigh news. Steve and his team are local and loving it, they go to | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
absolutely everything, and a small gang of locally collected | :26:19. | :26:20. | |
journalists gives Eastleigh and opportunity and the people there to | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
say what they feel, particularly in covering the story regarding the old | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
council buildings. It has been an extraordinary few months for the | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
people of Eastleigh after the election. I am truly enjoying | :26:35. | :26:42. | |
holding the Liberal Democrat council and former councillors and members | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
of Parliament to account, and making the important points about local | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
infrastructure. As we heard from fellow MPs, our roads are in dire | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
need of investment. And a focus on this is absolutely vital. Meet | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
anyone from my constituency and you will hear about never-ending traffic | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
queues which blight the area. I am delighted to support the airport | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
pollution work that we are trying to bring forward to this house. The | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
area right outside the council building is an area of air pollution | :27:17. | :27:23. | |
concern. I will be backing the air quality bill. We have heard about | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
the local majors fund today and that is very welcome for areas such as | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
mine, where we have a much long-awaited link road. All MPs | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
could probably argue which bypass or link road we have been waiting for | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
the longest, this one was over 25 years, so if anybody wants to raise | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
that, we will go with it. But it was very important that it was mentioned | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
in the budget and it will unlock more prime land for economic growth, | :27:52. | :28:00. | |
boost the area, and continue to help succeed the successes recently seen | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
by Southampton Airport. I was delighted to visit the airport for | :28:06. | :28:13. | |
the new route to court. It is one of four new routes being brought to the | :28:14. | :28:21. | |
south coast. I am delighted to see that this new Road, alongside other | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
manifesto promises, will come to fruition. We will see it delivered | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
through this conservative majority government. During some visits this | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
year locally to industries I spoke about earlier this week and | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
aggregates, we heard about the importance of jobs, infrastructure | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
and dealing with the air pollution, and making sure that we get the | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
Conservative action we need on this because it will lead to more local | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
jobs and better prosperity and two very different industries mentioned | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
to me how important this road will be to them. So the inclusion in this | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
budget is a great boost to Eastleigh and I'm very power to help to bring | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
this forward to the community and achieve this promise. | :29:06. | :29:43. | |
Neighbourhood plan much needed where there are frankly Nan in my | :29:44. | :29:51. | |
constituency. It was reported that the bypass would be shelved for | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
another 20 years so I am delighted that conservatives are working | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
together with the county council which looks as if it will be able to | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
start work soon and it shows that when the people of Eastleigh vote | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
blue they get the investment and hopefully the jobs they need in the | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
area. Now we have heard a lot in the last week in the budget about the | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
next generation of jobs and prosperity, keyed to young people. I | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
met Ricky from a plumbing company, Paul from a local aluminium foundry | :30:25. | :30:31. | |
and Ashley who does gasworks maintenance and James, from a | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
plumbing and heating company, at National apprenticeship week at the | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
college where they are so successful that bringing forward so many | :30:40. | :30:47. | |
apprentices. That working with small businesses to bring forward really | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
key apprenticeships especially in the foundry area yet one of the | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
problems that blights our lives even when it comes to this matter is good | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
old health and safety rules. I take the opportunity to raise the degree | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
want to get our people work ready and give them that work experience | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
we must make sure that 16 and 17-year-olds get the chance to start | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
out in a new career. And also the employers I met were very keen to | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
see older apprentices coming into new opportunities were given the | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
best chances. Over the last few months there have been serious | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
challenges in my constituency, Saint Luke 's surgery is hugely important | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
to the community and is in crisis and I thank the Right Honourable | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
Alistair Burt MP, the Minister of State for community and social care, | :31:40. | :31:42. | |
he has just met with me and has another meeting coming up to see how | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
we can help with the GPs problem in my constituency, eight weeks we are | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
waiting for regular appointments and this clearly isn't good enough, | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
understaffed and worried, wanting to provide a better service. Well | :31:56. | :32:03. | |
resourced and well staffed GPs are important in every community and I'm | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
certainly fighting for St Luke's. I would like to thank colleagues and | :32:07. | :32:13. | |
others across this House for support, and indeed, Mr Speaker, for | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
the help on International women's Day. We had a great turnout of girls | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
from across the country who came to their parliament, 73 of them, for a | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
day of awareness raising awareness of inequality and motivating | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
youngsters to get campaigning and I am delighted to see the amount of | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
issues raised in this house. Going back locally, talk about the lack of | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
a local plan, it blights my local residents. Thank the Stoke | :32:41. | :32:47. | |
residences as the Asian in Bishop Stokoe are trying to support their | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
environment and keep it rich and diverse and make sure there is no | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
destruction where there is needless destruction by ignoring the | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
sightseeing Eastleigh. It really is time for the government to allow us | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
to step in and force plans where people are not choosing the | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
legislation support residents's ideas. This Easter will not be | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
quiet, there's a fashion show with Eastleigh Lions, I am helping the | :33:15. | :33:22. | |
coaches who are trying to find bigger premises, enjoying a meeting | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
with the race and equality Forum, heading to age concern Eastleigh, | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
going to see the carers at fired care, touring the Swan Centre and | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
working with the women's register and there are surgeries where I will | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
be hearing from my residents or are concerned about the sewage issues | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
locally, the flooding and the impact on local services by lack of a local | :33:46. | :33:52. | |
plan. It has been a delight to take part in this important adjournment | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
debate before Easter. Mr Speaker may wish you and all the House restful | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
Easter and I promise to get many more Eastleigh campaigns into my | :34:04. | :34:14. | |
question is when I return! Melanie Onn. Thank you, Mr Speaker. It has | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
come a little unexpectedly! I want to thank the deputy leader for the | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
guidance and support to me in my first few months in this role. She | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
has assisted in the discussions we have had in such an usual matters is | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
the arrest of members, the members benevolent funds, vellum and other | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
more fake operations of this place, and there I mention Evo, and perhaps | :34:39. | :34:46. | |
I should move on from that! She really does take a role in very good | :34:47. | :34:54. | |
grace. In fact earlier, herself, me, and the frontbencher and are taking | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
the same role for the SNP had a photograph taken to commemorate our | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
all women's business questions and turned it the three Graces. It has | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
been a fantastic and wide and varied debate this afternoon, with many | :35:12. | :35:18. | |
members coming to champion their constituencies and it has been a | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
real treat, the honourable member for Harrow East particularly, his | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
references to the Stanmore station left, and the delay, I am sure he | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
will continue assiduously in his campaign to secure that, I am | :35:35. | :35:37. | |
addressed it in his 39 steps reference and whether indeed the | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
book is about that station. It is interesting talking about the | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
investment in Crossrail, if I like that to my area, my constituency, | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
the reference from the honourable member from Cleethorpes regarding | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
the lack of mention of any future plans around transport in the South | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
of the Humber area I would say to the honourable member for Harrow | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
East that his charge of 75p, perhaps he should move to north-east | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
Lincolnshire with a charge is ?30. This equitable life debate, I joined | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
in with that particularly to support my constituents who lost out on | :36:18. | :36:24. | |
equitable life scandal. And if that reflects the gentleman's view of the | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
Waspy women who through no fault of their own are losing out financially | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
and in quality of life, there are similar parallels. The honourable | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
member fullest used, there have been similar contributions about potholes | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
and bypass roads, link roads and the like, interesting to see him make a | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
plea to his own MP in London for assistance in improving the roads in | :36:52. | :36:59. | |
that area, most strikingly, he mentions the one-year anniversary of | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
the conflict in the Yemen with 8800 civilians affected so terribly in | :37:06. | :37:14. | |
those atrocities. It reaffirms why contributions to our International | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
development fund is so important when 3 million children are not in | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
school and she referred to his Tiffin cup, which I think is well | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
known across the house and I will be speaking to the proprietors of the | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
spice of life and the masala Indian and seeking their support. He | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
mentions Leicester football club. I would like to say that Leicester | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
Tigers undertake training for young people in my constituency who are | :37:40. | :37:46. | |
doing rugby training in community classes and the Leicester Tigers | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
were becoming slightly closer to my constituency and market raisin to | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
Lincolnshire over the summer. My son I believe will be joining the | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
Leicester Tigers in that activity. The member for South and West is | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
certainly standing up for his constituents of National Express, | :38:11. | :38:12. | |
think we'll all agree that there should never be an accusation that | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
members should not stand up for their constituents in this place. | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
His constituents will expect nothing less. Interesting that he's trying | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
to take the city of culture and become the alternative city of | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
culture! You may not be aware that I've been trying to bring the city | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
of culture slightly south of the Humber, and bring it into Grimsby | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
and Cleethorpes, and get some of the benefits of Hull's city of culture | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
year next year and the citizens of Hull haven't been impressed but am | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
happy to pass on his details and perhaps they will contact you rather | :38:49. | :38:50. | |
more frequently than they are contacting me! Interesting about the | :38:51. | :38:59. | |
concerns you are raising that, I wonder if some of the issues around | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
the fragmentation of the NHS and increasing privatisation within | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
health services, where that's not happening perhaps so quickly, | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
perhaps those developments would not be necessary although I recognise | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
his support for the world to monetary and Summit and the Queen 's | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
90th birthday, the keep Britain tidy activity, the Clean For The Queen | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
and one of my own councillors in our ward ardently took part in that | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
event to support keeping Britain tidy. The comments made by the | :39:33. | :39:43. | |
Honourable member for Kennedy Dian highlight -- Ceredigion -- highlight | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
the bureaucratic tangles in this country where it could be as simple, | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
I really do hope that the deputy leader will pass on the message to | :39:53. | :39:59. | |
the Minister, I confess that I believe the minister would wish to | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
assist in that matter more thoroughly than has currently | :40:03. | :40:09. | |
happened. The honourable member for Cleethorpes, congratulations on | :40:10. | :40:17. | |
winning Pier of the Year and for mentioning Grimsby town coming to | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
Wembley in the FA took the cup. We've got a strong contingent of | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
away fans. I'm sure Wembley will be delighted to see an influx of | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
Grimsby residents coming to London to support their team, will | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
hopefully we will win and not be subjected to the terrors of the | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
penalty shoot out which do not serve us well. He is quite right to raise | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
the issue of transport. I know that he's reprised his role on the | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
transport select committee and he is a considerable enthusiast of the | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
railways, and particularly for our area, and has been an assiduous | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
campaigner on that front and I personally raise the issue of the | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
transport and the lack of consideration for South of the | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
Humber with the chief executive at this weeks Yorkshire and Humber all | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
party Parliamentary group, and I thoroughly support his suggestion | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
that there should be a direct train from Cleethorpes in Grimsby town to | :41:12. | :41:19. | |
King's Cross. SmackDown to King's Cross. And the state of the road, | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
you can't hear the local radio over the rumble of the road so we really | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
need to sort that out. The member who discussed the very important | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
issue of freezing pensions, and the operating for UK citizens living | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
overseas, and raising the concern about the impact of Brexit, were | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
that to happen, I'll will support his call for a debate on that | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
matter. The honourable member for staff and, as concerns over the | :41:49. | :41:56. | |
potential loss of sporting facilities are of concern and I wish | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
is campaign to retain those important facilities very well for | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
those constituents who are clearly very active. And recognises tributes | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
to local NHS staff as well. The honourable member full Congleton | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
raises the important issue of the middle which eastern bypass. Clearly | :42:16. | :42:23. | |
a keen advocate for that constituency. Which demonstrates | :42:24. | :42:31. | |
your intimate knowledge of your constituency. | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
LAUGHTER I am terribly sorry, absolutely, I | :42:38. | :42:47. | |
met hers, not yours, you'll have no idea about Congleton roads, I'm | :42:48. | :42:48. | |
sure! LAUGHTER | :42:49. | :42:58. | |
I do apologise! And the Honourable member for Eastleigh celebrating the | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
32nd running of the Eastleigh ten Kate, I'm sorry that you did not get | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
to participate. And also yourself, Mr Speaker! I would like to | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
highlight the Great Grimsby ten K run on July 31 at which local | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
companies and charities will take part. I am sure she recognises that | :43:22. | :43:35. | |
in a similar way has support for International women's Day, an | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
impressive number of the constituents who attended this place | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
on International women's Day, and I would like to take the opportunity | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
which I failed to do this morning to wish everybody a very happy Easter. | :43:46. | :43:47. | |
Thank you. Thank you Mr Speaker, it is a | :43:48. | :43:58. | |
pleasure to be at the dispatch box for the second time today in order | :43:59. | :44:04. | |
to try to help backbenchers from across all parties in their quests | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
to help their constituents. I would like to particularly commend the | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
honourable member whose birthday it is today, and it shows how dedicated | :44:14. | :44:20. | |
he is that he is here. And my friends for Southend West and | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
Congleton will be celebrating their birthdays over the weekend. I would | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
like to welcome the return of the pre-recess adjournment break. I'm | :44:30. | :44:36. | |
delighted that people can come and raise issues at this moment. It was | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
started by my friend from Harrow East. He is one of several | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
apprentices to date to Mike Honourable friend for Southwest in | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
trying to cover as many topics as he can in his time. Turning to the lift | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
at Stanmore station, he will recognise that this is a matter for | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
the Mayor of London, is Honourable friend for Uxbridge, and TEFL. I do | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
understand the member has raised this concern many times, and I | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
suggest he grabs the mail while he is in the division lobby when we | :45:08. | :45:14. | |
vote on the Finance Bill. I recognise the station's ramp for | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
wheelchair users technically meets the requirements for step free | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
access but I recognise the challenges about it being steeped. | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
He is right to praise the redevelopment of the National | :45:27. | :45:27. | |
Orthopaedic Hospital which does great work. I understand the trust | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
board would approve the version and it will be submitted to the | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
improvement review. It is a priority project for the department and NHS | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
improvement. I was pleased that he paid tribute to the rebuilding of | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
several schools. Good to see the government investing in the future | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
of children in Harrow. In particular referring to the first Hindu school | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
which I know that parents will welcome. He talked about the blue | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
badge scheme. It is fair to say the criteria for accessing a blue badge | :46:01. | :46:07. | |
has been significantly tightened, so it is not specifically based on a | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
kind of disability, but nevertheless people with the appropriate | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
disabilities who cannot walk a certain distance, if they're walking | :46:17. | :46:18. | |
is sufficiently affected, should be deemed eligible, and I'm sure that | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
he will work with his constituents to achieve that. In terms of the | :46:24. | :46:32. | |
tobacco tax, eight typical packet already has over ?5 in duty. In 2014 | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
it was announced RPI plus 2% will continue until the end of | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
Parliament. I also know that the Treasury is taking action to reduce | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
the gap in duty between hand-rolled tobacco and cigarettes, and I'm sure | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
he will welcome both those measures. As it is shown that having high duty | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
rates is a proven way to reducing smoking prevalence and helps | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
objective is to be met on protecting public health. Turning to the | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
honourable gentleman from Leicester East who raised in particular the | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
issue of the Yemen. The Yemen certainly matters to this country. | :47:15. | :47:22. | |
Al-Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula are exploiting the situation and the | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
government is not prepared to stand back and let that continue, but | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
believes a political solution is the best way to bring long-term | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
stability to Yemen. There are encouraging the ports of cooperation | :47:36. | :47:38. | |
between the Saudis and the fees which has agreed a cessation of | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
hostilities on the border, improved humanitarian access along with | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
prison exchanges and mine clearance. Last week the Saudi Arabian led | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
coalition said they intend to scale back military operations in Yemen. | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
In that vein I applaud the work and support the work of the UN special | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
envoy for Yemen, who says he is ready to launch political talks in | :48:01. | :48:03. | |
the coming weeks. The UK effort should be focused on supporting the | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
UN and encouraging parties to engage constructively and implement | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
commitments made. He also refers to the availability of products in this | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
place and I suspect he may want to speak to the Administration | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
committee. I am sure there are a lot of cheers for the momentous season | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
it has been so far for the Leicester City foxes. I am sure they will be a | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
popular winner of the Premier League if they are able to continue their | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
great success, doing much better than my own team of Liverpool. He | :48:36. | :48:43. | |
refers to a specific situation concerning diabetes programmes | :48:44. | :48:45. | |
within Leicester. I am not aware of the details but I am sure he was | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
capable, and as he has shown in the past, of picking that up with the | :48:50. | :48:55. | |
Health Secretary. I can convert your on the Tiffin cup. It is the first | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
year I will be making a nomination and I hope he will be successful. | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
Moving on to that order forced that is my honourable friend for Southend | :49:04. | :49:12. | |
West. He is a class act that certain members are starting to learn from. | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
He finished his contribution with a tribute to Her Majesty The Queen in | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
the year of her 90th birthday. I can assure him there will be ample time | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
in this house to pay tribute in June course. In terms of C to see the | :49:28. | :49:36. | |
government accepts that timetable changes have had a big impact on | :49:37. | :49:44. | |
passengers and their journeys. My honourable friend is seeking to | :49:45. | :49:50. | |
undertake a review of the stopping pattern on the Internet and | :49:51. | :50:06. | |
services. We will work closely with C2C to achieve a balance. In regards | :50:07. | :50:13. | |
to fire safety, Sir David wrote to the honourable gentleman recently | :50:14. | :50:15. | |
explaining that he is considering a number of the issues raised about | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
governing regulations and I'm pleased that my honourable friend | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
has had the chance to speak with my right honourable friend the member | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
for Bognor Regis regarding automatic fire sprinklers in schools. I am | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
aware of his concerns connecting the potential change of responsibilities | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
involving Police and Crime Panel is this but I want him to be assured | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
that those matters will be considered carefully if any changes | :50:44. | :50:51. | |
are made. In regards to Chilcott, we have all been waiting a long time | :50:52. | :50:54. | |
and I hope it will not be too much longer. Sir John Chilcott, and my | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
right honourable friend the Prime Minister exchange letters last year. | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
He will know that my right honourable friend is exceptionally | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
frustrated at how long this has taken to do, but it is an | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
independent report and the government cannot direct when the | :51:10. | :51:17. | |
report will be published. I want to congratulate him on piloting a | :51:18. | :51:19. | |
private members bill successfully through this house. It just shows | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
that a good, sensible piece of legislation, not trying to achieve | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
too much but doing something that matters, in this case a deregulatory | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
measure, can get the support of this house quite successfully. I wish him | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
well in the Lords and hopefully it will work. In terms of the | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
alternative city of culture, as has been alluded to, I think wins the | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
trying to become the fringe though. I think it is stretching a little | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
far to get to Southend. Knowing my honourable friend and the people of | :51:55. | :51:56. | |
Southend, they will not let anything stand in their way and it sounds | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
like a really exciting programme which I may well take advantage of | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
next year. I'm hoping to go to Southend in the near future to | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
campaign for my friend Alex Bright, who is running in the south Church | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
Ward. He is a friend but he works for me as my secretary and I am sure | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
he will do well. My honourable friend has a long history of | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
championing animal welfare. He will be aware that there are laws in | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
place enforcement agencies can use. However the government accepts that | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
the legislation needs updating. There has been a consultation, to | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
which we received about 1500 responses, and I think they will | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
have to be analysed before decisions are made but it is not just about | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
changing the law, it is about working with key stakeholders to | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
change understandings. He tackled a number of issues to do with health. | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
Medicine and health care products regulatory agency is the competence | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
authority. And whilst governments may wish to encourage particular | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
thoughts along some lines, they are independent, and need to come up | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
with what is appropriate in terms of evidence. In terms of salt, the data | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
published by Public Health England showed that adult salt intake in | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
England has decreased by over 10% in the last decade. My honourable | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
friend is right that the UK is leading the world in salt reduction | :53:19. | :53:21. | |
and I will work with industry on voluntary reductions has cut salt | :53:22. | :53:28. | |
levels in everyday products like ketchup and baked beans. In terms of | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
meningitis my thoughts are with the families of Mike honourable friend's | :53:32. | :53:37. | |
constituent. He refers to the petition and I know that the matter | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
will be debated further in April. In terms of fuel poverty, this is a | :53:43. | :53:45. | |
really important matter and I recognise that he piloted a private | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
members bill onto the statute book when he was a member in opposition. | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
The government is serious about helping vulnerable people heat their | :53:54. | :53:56. | |
homes. The department is putting in measures needed requiring us to | :53:57. | :54:04. | |
bring as many homes as practically possible to the standard by 2030. He | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
is right to praise what happened in the budget on business rates, and in | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
regards to the Maldives, the UK is not alone in the concerns about the | :54:15. | :54:21. | |
sustained decline of democracy in the Maldives but I am sure he will | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
make his point to the Minister. The upcoming humanitarian summit will | :54:27. | :54:29. | |
provide an opportunity for the global community to come together to | :54:30. | :54:34. | |
serve those left behind by poverty, and my right honourable friend as | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
placed support for women and girls at the heart of his work. As for the | :54:40. | :54:51. | |
honourable member, he does raise what is a challenging case. I am not | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
going to pretend that I can give him any assurances here today, but I | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
will refer back to the Home Secretary to see if there is | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
anything more that could be done. In terms of my honourable friend from | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
Cleethorpes, the honourable lady from Grimsby, I am sure they will be | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
going down Wembley Way together. He refers to the greater Lincolnshire | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
deal, I think this is an opportunity to make some of the changes which he | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
refers to. I recognise his points about rail connectivity, and he was | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
generous in accepting that work is going to be undertaken helping the | :55:25. | :55:31. | |
area, but I will pass as comments to the DFT and ask them to reply. In | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
terms of the honourable gentleman referring to EDM 1325, I'm not aware | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
that the usual channels have yet been activated for a debate so he | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
may wish to take that up with his honourable friend whose birthday is | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
also today. UK state pensions are payable worldwide and are rated | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
abroad where we have a legal requirement to do so, in countries | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
where there is a reciprocal agreement. This has been a | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
long-standing policy for about 70 years and the government has no | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
plans to change the rules. I honourable friend from Stafford | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
started with a strong appropriation of his Christian faith. My | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
colleagues on the international developer and committee had a | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
successful visit to Nigeria and are committed to drawing 1 million more | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
children into education by 2020. He should recognise that sport England | :56:31. | :56:38. | |
is a statutory committee on playing fields and he may wish to approach | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
that. When compared to the green tunnel, the cutting would reduce the | :56:44. | :56:50. | |
height of the structure. My honourable friend was exceptionally | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
eloquent in her proposals for an eastern bypass around Middlewich. It | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
is good to hear that she is working with her council and the LEP and she | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
made a compelling case in her bid for the local makers fund, | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
recognising the local access to crew. She is due to meet my | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
honourable friend. Tim Southee but I strongly recommend she meets her | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
honourable friend for Scarborough. I hope she succeeds but I will be | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
putting the case forward. My honourable friend for the easterly | :57:24. | :57:36. | |
covered a range of topics. She is an excellent MP, making that | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
difference. She talks about apprenticeships and I will pass her | :57:40. | :57:42. | |
comments onto the appropriate minister. I know that she has | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
aurally met my right honourable friend about GPs. It is right that | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
she gets credit. I just want to say thank you to the honourable lady for | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
Great Grimsby and it has been a pleasure working with her as well. I | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
wish the civil servants thanks for helping and I wish everybody happy | :58:01. | :58:07. | |
Easter. The question is that this house has considered matters to be | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
raised before a forthcoming adjournment. Just before I asked to | :58:11. | :58:21. | |
adjourned. | :58:22. | :58:22. |