Browse content similar to 07/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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actions are disgraceful, and when the acting the way we have seen in | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
recent weeks, there is absolutely lead no excuse but authorities not | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
to put them in court where they belong. We now come to the select | :00:00. | :00:12. | |
committee statement. Doctor Julian Lewis will speak on the subject for | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
up to ten minutes, during which no interventions can be taken. At the | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
conclusion of the statement, I will call on members to make comments. | :00:20. | :00:26. | |
Members can expect to be called only once. Interventions should be | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
questions and should be brief. The front bench may take part in the | :00:31. | :00:38. | |
questioning. Thank you. I am grateful for this opportunity to lay | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
before the house, the defence committee's report entitled Russian | :00:43. | :00:49. | |
Implications For Uk Defence And Implications For Uk Defence And | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
Security, which has been produced on the eve of the Nato or for summit | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
and highlights the need for that major event to focus on defence, | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
deterrence, but also dialogue. I am extremely grateful to all the | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
members of the select committee for their contributions to the genesis | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
of this report. We held for oral evidence sessions, we also received | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
18 pieces of written evidence and a delegation from the committee spent | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
a visit in Moscow, ably led by my honourable friend for North | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
Wiltshire, where the attempted to engage with the Russian authorities. | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
Because of the current state of relations, however, Russian | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
government authorities were reluctant to engage, but they | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
acquired much of useful information on that visit. Russia's annexation | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
of Crimea and the invasion of eastern Ukraine have undermined the | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
post-Cold War assumption of a stable Europe, with a military threat to | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
Nato is now. The north Atlantic Alliance must therefore restored its | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
defences, refutes deterrence and reopen is dialogue with the Russian | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
the UK were taken by surprise by the the UK were taken by surprise by the | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
interventions in Ukraine shows a failure to comprehend President | :02:17. | :02:24. | |
Putin's determination to maintain a sphere of influence beyond Russia's | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
own borders, and if necessary, to do so by force. His stands directly | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
contradicts the rules -based international order that Western | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
democracy seeks to promote. Russia has become increasingly active, not | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
all me in conventional warfare, but in unconventional methods, often | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
deniable, which are designed to fall below the threshold that would | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
trigger a two's Article five guarantee. Article five is of course | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
the undertaking to consider an armed attack against one Nato member state | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
as an attack against them all. The creation of the very high readiness | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
joint task force among Nato member states and the enhanced for presence | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
on needle's contested eastern flank, are steps in the right direction. | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
But our report warns, the task force has only been formed recently and | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
it's capacity to deploy the necessary forces within the required | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
time frame is yet unproven. Among the report's recommendations for | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
Nato are, first, to recognise the extent of Russian reed | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
militarisation and to respond to it robustly. Secondly, to review the | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
affected list of current deterrent policy against nuclear conventional | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
and hybrid or multi dimensional warfare. Thirdly, to determine | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
whether the 1987 intermediate treaty whether the 1987 intermediate treaty | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
is in need of repair or replacement in the light of allegations that | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
Russia has reached its provisions. Fourthly, to set out the timetable | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
for the Trident successor submarine debate, and the decision in | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
parliament, as we say, without further delay. Indeed, to hope that | :04:23. | :04:29. | |
debate before the summer recess. This way, to encourage renewal of EU | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
wide sanctions against Russia and to consider extending them to a larger | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
group among the Kremlin leadership and 63, to accept that it is, as we | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
state, perfectly possible to confront and constrain an adversary | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
in a region where our interests clash, while operating with him to | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
some degree in a region where they call inside. We regard the threat | :04:55. | :05:05. | |
posed by Daesh, Al-Qaeda and other international terrorists as a | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
convergence of Nato and Russian convergence of Nato and Russian | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
interests. I am glad to see the minister assenting to that | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
proposition. The committee believes that Russian cyber attacks are | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
crossed Europe and their territorial seizures in Georgia and Ukraine may | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
not be isolated actions, but may be symptomatic of a wider ambition to | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
restore Moscow's global influence. However, because Russia is a global | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
power, there remain opportunities for cooperation if we can but grasp | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
them. Yet with relations at an all-time low, our report concludes | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
that the UK must urgently boost its capture of Russian specialists. We | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
must restore and maintain a high level of expertise for the | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
foreseeable future. Even the current climate, the defence at a shoe's | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
office in Moscow, for example, must be properly staffed by the end of | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
the year. Since the end of the Cold War, Russia has not been a UK | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
priority and our expertise in this field has withered on the vine. The | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
UK needs a vastly strengthen body of experts, who can help provide an | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
effective response to the challenges which Russia now poses. We cannot | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
hope to understand Russia without a forthright dialogue, and I'm under | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
current conditions of mistrust, we run the risk of blundering into | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
conflicts that may be preventable through better communication. The | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
by military confrontation, but also by military confrontation, but also | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
of Marxism - Leninism, with its of Marxism - Leninism, with its | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
formidable appeal to impressionable minds inside the Kremlin's targeted | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
countries. No such totalitarian doctrine applies to present-day | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
Russia, which for all its nationalist and expansionist | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
tendencies, is itself under threat from revolutionary Islamism, the | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
brutal successor to the equally brutal Nazi and Communist creeds | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
which blighted so much of the 20th century. Therein lies the basis for | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
provided that our dialogue with provided that our dialogue with | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
Russia is from a position of strength, based on sound defences | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
and credible deterrence. Thank you very much. May I say, it is a | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
privilege to serve on the Defence Select Committee so ably chaired by | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
my honourable friend. I hope he would agree with me that one of the | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
things that was clear from our report is that lack of dialogue and | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
understanding between our colleagues in Russia and ourselves, not only in | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
terms of language, but also in terms of shared history, and would he | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
agree that in light of the upcoming Nato summit, we need to review that | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
as part of our wider engagement with Russia and about how they perceive | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
the threat from Nato? Yes, indeed. I thank the honourable lady, who is a | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
tremendously supportive member of the committee. This is her first | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
Parliamentary term, but she has made a great start. I do emphasise again | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
what I said about the importance of dialogue with Russia. The fact | :08:31. | :08:32. | |
remains that different societies remains that different societies | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
develop at different stages and they go through different phases in their | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
attitude to their relationships with the rest of the world. One mistake | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
that the West clearly made after the downfall of communism was too evil | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
pedigree of triumphalism at a time when magnanimity would have been | :08:53. | :08:59. | |
more appropriate. I think the West makes a terrible mistake if they | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
fail to recognise that Russia is, and always has been, a great power. | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
And what we have to do is reach out the hand of friendship while trying | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
to discourage those aspects of the Russian tradition that seek to | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
dominate lands the envelope borders. The fact is, they are a pretty large | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
landmass themselves, and one would hope they could make a success of | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
running their own country without feeling the need to impose their | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
will on their neighbours. Potential Russian expansionism must be | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
deterred by Nato by a fist of steel, there's no question of that at all, | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
moment, we don't understand Russia moment, we don't understand Russia | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
and we don't understand what they're doing and we have to find better | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
ways of understanding them and talking to them about it. One area | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
where we simply don't know is in the high North, in the Arctic, they are | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
without question expanding their without question expanding their | :10:01. | :10:02. | |
military capabilities there. We don't know why. One area of the | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
report wasn't able to look into was what they're doing in the Arctic and | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
Indeed, in the report, we dropped a Indeed, in the report, we dropped a | :10:14. | :10:21. | |
very broad hint that the area of the Arctic, the high North, is something | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
that deserves special attention and I strongly suspect that, if and when | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
the committee takes a decision to give it that special attention, my | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
honourable friend who has led the way with his all-party group on the | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
polar regions, in alerting the country to the significance of this | :10:40. | :10:42. | |
area, will be playing a very prominent part in deed. First of | :10:43. | :10:52. | |
committee members for a committee members for a | :10:53. | :10:54. | |
comprehensive and thorough report on comprehensive and thorough report on | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
this very important area of the UK's and Europe's defence and security. | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
The enquiry didn't have time to consider the implications of Brexit | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
in full, given that tactics are often about destabilising Europe, | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
does he think it is vital for the UK does he think it is vital for the UK | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
to make sure that Brexit does not undermine the political cohesion of | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
Nato? I'm going to issue the answer to that is yes, and as such, has the | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
committee given any preliminary thoughts as to how that might come | :11:29. | :11:35. | |
about? First of all, they are welcome the honourable member for | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
Norwich South to his new responsibilities, and may I say a | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
personal message of appreciation for his past service in the territorial | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
Army, which included a spell of active service in Afghanistan. I | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
hope the members of the Armed Forces, particularly those who have | :11:56. | :11:57. | |
seen armed service and dangerous parts of the world, in the highest | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
respect and I'm sure we will all this and with very great attention | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
to the contributions of the honourable gentleman. | :12:07. | :12:14. | |
In relation to Brexit, I do not think I am giving up trade secrets | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
when I say this has been discussed as one of the major strands of the | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
forthcoming work of the committee. It is certainly the case that that | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
ought to be no need for anyone to feel that security arrangements have | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
been undermined in any way, if only because the almost complete overlap | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
between the membership of the EU and the mentorship of the North Atlantic | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
Treaty Organisation. I am quite certain that the structures of the | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
North Atlantic Treaty Organisation will be perfectly capable of | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
carrying forward the security relationships without any form of | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
distortion by any other organisation that might have been tempted to | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
duplicate them. And Nato will indeed be one of the principal fora for | :13:01. | :13:08. | |
ensuring that the communications that are so important between the | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
United Kingdom and our friends and allies on the continent will be able | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
to proceed absolutely uninterruptedly as a result of the | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
change that is going to take place. Could I to welcome the member for | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
Norwich South into the new role he is in and say that we served in the | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
same reserve infantry unit, although unlike me, he saw active service to | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
ring his time there. -- during his time there. Can I congratulate my | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
honourable friend on a heavyweight report him and his committee have | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
made. And clearly will be responding to it and we will look carefully at | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
each of his recommendations, it is above my pay grade to give a date | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
for Trident debate. We will be looking carefully at it. Could I | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
congratulate them on the careful balance they have struck between | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
stressing the real and growing dangers from the Soviet, Surrey, | :14:09. | :14:17. | |
from Russia, Freudian slip! With, on the other hand, the contrast in | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
political situation compared with the old Soviet Union. The lack of | :14:25. | :14:32. | |
the ideology there and that lack of constructive opportunities that | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
would provide as we share a threat from Daesh. I'm grateful for those | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
encouraging remarks from the minister, and I believe that he is | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
spot on when he says that we must take a balanced view with regard to | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
Russia. If we look back over their history of Anglo Russian relations | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
over the 20th century, they are a terrible switchback ride of periods | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
of great hostility and then close it Alliance and then great hostility | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
once again. It is a pity, I will put it no more strongly than that, that | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
we cannot order our affairs to see that in reality there are prospects | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
for cooperation between developed powers that are masterly outweigh | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
any sectional advantage that might be sought by one of them trying to | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
steal a march on the other. And I understand the reasons why it Russia | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
feels affronted by its treatment after the end of the Cold War, but | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
that is no excuse for ripping up the international rule books, and | :15:46. | :15:47. | |
trampling on the rights of its neighbours. May I commend the | :15:48. | :15:55. | |
chairman and the members of the committee on producing an excellent | :15:56. | :15:57. | |
report in the run-up to the Nato summit later this week? And I | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
entirely agree with the need for more dialogue and cooperation | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
through the Russia Council and by other means. And also the | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
committee's recommendation about recognising the Russian threat and | :16:12. | :16:14. | |
the need to respond robustly. In that context, does the chairman of | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
the committee share my concern about the recent announcement by the | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
Foreign Minister in Germany when after a Nato exercise in Poland, he | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
described it as warmongering and counter-productive to regional | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
security. Isn't that the need for member states of Nato to stand | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
together, send United and clear message to Putin, that we will not | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
be divided, and there needs to be work done by our own government and | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
other like-minded governments to ensure that everybody recognises the | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
need to stand united or Putin will exploit differences. I share his | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
concern and this is why some of us at any rate, and I speak more | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
personally in this respect, have been worried about the creation of a | :17:03. | :17:10. | |
separate defence identity within Europe outside the Nato arena. What | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
he says is entirely right. Nato is the forum in which our security | :17:16. | :17:23. | |
concerns with our European friends, neighbours and allies, should be | :17:24. | :17:31. | |
aired. And we should try to arrive at unified perceptions of the | :17:32. | :17:33. | |
situation and articulate them appropriately. May I congratulate my | :17:34. | :17:40. | |
right honourable friend and his committee on producing an excellent | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
and very timely report. I wonder if he would agree with me that what we | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
have seen recently is that resident Putin has been able to exploit our | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
witnesses, but he does so ruthlessly, and that he has been | :17:55. | :18:02. | |
able to act with impunity. As chairman of the all-party Ukraine | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
group I am conscious of his flouting of the Budapest memorandum of 1990 | :18:07. | :18:15. | |
six -- 1996. He has done that with complete impunity. He respects | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
strength. I think it is right that Nato is reinforcing its position in | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
the Baltic states. I think that it is an act of, demonstration of | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
strength on the part of Nato and of resolve. And I wonder if my right | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
honourable friend would not agree with me that it is capabilities, not | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
intentions, that count. Because intentions can change overnight, his | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
abilities cannot. Particularly today when we see the complexity of modern | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
defence technology, you cannot produce tanks and shipped overnight. | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
So Nato's upcoming meeting should be focusing on that extra spending to | :18:58. | :19:05. | |
deliver capabilities. I applaud my right honourable friend's argued | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
about dialogue. I had a meeting with the Russian ambassador in London and | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
I said, we had a common interest. We are both facing Islamic | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
fundamentalism. Would my right honourable friend be able to share | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
with the House how he thinks we can on the one hand show that we have | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
absolutely determination and resolve in resisting Putin's advances, but | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
also, engage with them and his government, and where else might we | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
do so apart from on the mutual threat we face from Islamic | :19:38. | :19:45. | |
fundamentalism? There was a cornucopia of questions in there, | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
but all of them typically sound and well directed, given my honourable | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
friend's distinguished record in the field of defence and security. I do | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
believe that there is nothing new about the dilemma of how the gauge | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
our relations with the Russians. I remember in my years as a researcher | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
coming across a paper by the joint intelligence subcommittee, it was | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
then the subcommittee of the chiefs of staff, called relations by the | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
Russians, written in 1945. And it said then what we are saying today, | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
which is the respect due if you stand up to them, if you show your | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
strong, but if you engage with them as well. They do not respect you if | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
you give signs of weakness. And I believe that there is a shared | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
threat but there are also potential threats which Russia is beginning to | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
show once again towards its most immediate neighbours, and that is | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
why it is so important that there is a Nato military presence in the most | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
vulnerable front line states, particularly the Baltic states and | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
Poland, because Russia must be left in no doubt that Nato membership | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
means that article five applies, and article five means that there should | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
be no question of thinking you can pick off any weaker member state of | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
Nato or any more exposed member state of Nato and the other | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
countries of Nato will not come to its aid. And that is why of course, | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
conversely, we must be careful not to extend Nato membership or article | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
five guarantees to countries where it is simply not realistic to | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
believe that Nato would go to war to defend them. We are quite a lot over | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
time so I am going to ask for very short, quick questions but also | :21:40. | :21:49. | |
short and quick answers. We have spent most of yesterday discussing | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
political and military miscalculation and misadventure in | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
Iraq. The debate that we hope on Trident looms large but the report | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
emphasises also the need to see the cost effectiveness of that | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
programme. Following Brexit and the potential uncertainty that that | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
might bring, would my honourable friend agree that there are many | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
approaches and non-nuclear deterrent that we could introduce to create | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
stability with Russia, but Trident skews every defence budget to | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
unacceptable levels. That could create a financial risk actuation | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
and lead to military misadventure that would make Iraq look like a | :22:33. | :22:39. | |
walk in the park. Bearing in mind your instruction to be concise, I | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
will share with the House what the honourable gentleman said to me when | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
he first joined the committee. He said, Julian, you and I are never | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
going to agree about the nuclear deterrent, but I am sure we can | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
cooperate to mutual advantage and many other defence issues. And he | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
has been as good as his word. I respect his concerns and doubts | :23:03. | :23:04. | |
about the Trident successor programme, and I am sure that the | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
sooner we have the debate, the sooner we will be able to engage in | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
the arguments. Can I commend the honourable gentleman for his | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
chairmanship and leadership of the committee. When you think of Russia, | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
I think of those words, speak softly but carry a big stick. One of the | :23:24. | :23:31. | |
concerns I have is the National Guard which is under the direct | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
control of the president, he can control organised crime and | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
protests. Does the chairman shall my concerns, it is clear that President | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
Putin no longer has any kind of opposition whatsoever. It is there a | :23:50. | :23:56. | |
need -- and is there a need to have a quick response from Nato? Russia | :23:57. | :24:03. | |
can respond in 48 hours and it takes Nato days. We need to be able to | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
engage with Russia at every level and make sure they've protect our | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
people. The honourable gentleman makes an extra enormous and | :24:12. | :24:20. | |
extremely valuable contribution to the committee. The announcement of | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
the creation of this new National Guard in Russia, believed to muster | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
hundreds of thousands of troops, by some reports, but interestingly | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
enough, also including special forces, is of concern. And as it is | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
directly responsible to the president, one can only wonder | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
whether it has something to do with shoring up his position dementedly | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
as well as exert -- domestic league as well as exerting power beyond | :24:50. | :24:58. | |
Russia's borders. The creation of a high modernist joint task force is a | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
step in the right direction but certainly the numbers that should be | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
generated at short notice by the Russian Armed Forces seem to be | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
substantially in excess of what Nato is able to do now or in the | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
immediate future, and we need to be able to do better than that in the | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
medium and long term. I will just begin by welcoming the report, I get | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
concerned in this house when we are talking about Russia in a certain | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
fashion, we are not talking about the communities of Russia who have | :25:34. | :25:36. | |
to live with the Russian state every day. It now sees that -- it is now | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
clear that the Russian Federation views that Britain's position is | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
very weakened, will he agree with me that the lack of investigation into | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
the consequences of Brexit was an oversight, and only ads suck or to | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
the idea in the Kremlin that the United Kingdom does not have any | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
clue what it is doing when it comes with like-minded European nations | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
dealing with a profound threats from the Russian Federation? What a | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
pleasure after although supportive questions to say I am able to | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
disagree with that question. When did Brexit occur? A matter of days | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
ago. And the committee, the committee is to be corrugated and | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
condemned because it has not already carried out a full-scale | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
investigation of the consequences of something that the honourable | :26:34. | :26:35. | |
gentleman was hoping would never happen will stop some of us hope | :26:36. | :26:43. | |
that it would happen but I must say the majority of the committee hoped | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
it would not. He can be sure that the consequences of Brexit feature | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
high up on our future programme of work and I am surprised only that he | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
did not think that we should have carried out the research into the | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
consequences of it before we even knew that it was going to pick | :27:01. | :27:09. | |
place. We now come to the backbench motion on online abuse. I beg to | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
move the motion relating to online abuse. Without digital connectivity | :27:17. | :27:24. | |
and an online world, our lives would be cooler, but the reason for this | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
debate today is our responsibility as elected to sensitive is is clear | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
that this needs to be a force that is for good, not for ill. I believe | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
we'll have a clear duty to come together and demand of the | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
government that they do more address the problems of online abuse in all | :27:45. | :27:46. | |
its forms. More than three quarters its forms. More than three quarters | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
of our constituents use the Internet almost every day. More than half use | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
a mobile phone to access it. Half of all crimes committed in this country | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
have a digital component, and the police are overwhelmed by its scale | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
and diversity, particularly the nature and impact of online abuse. | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
The focus of government in the past has primarily been on online abuse | :28:10. | :28:16. | |
that involves child abuse images. I applaud the Prime Minister in his | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
career and personal abuse to act on this crime. But online abuse is much | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
more than that, for both children and adults. Homophobic, Transco | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
brick, anti-Muslim, anti-Semitic, hate crime to name but a few. Image | :28:30. | :28:38. | |
-based sexual abuse. These forms of abuse and others continue to go | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
unchallenged, because reporting mechanisms are unreliable or | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
obscure, because the law was designed for an analogue age, or | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
because the police are not properly trained to identify online abuse and | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
collecting evidence to make a case stick. We have to reject all forms | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
of online abuse, tissue or zero tolerance through our legal systems, | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
police force and the things we teach our children in schools. It is for | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
us to determine what sort of society we we live in, not faceless | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
corporate organisations often many thousands of miles away. We cannot | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
sit by and simply allow online abuse in all its forms to become an | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
accepted norm in our society. With the growing fire online and off-line | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
worlds, the blurring of those worlds, it's easy to see how that | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
might end. What is allowed to become an accepted form of online abuse | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
could simply spill over in a face-to-face worlds as well. Like | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
every other single member of the house, I believe in freedom of | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
speech, but that freedom of speech has never been an unqualified right. | :29:47. | :29:53. | |
Freedom of speech comes with responsibilities, and at the present | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
time, we're not making sure that people who are expressing themselves | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
online understand that fact. The facts do show the direction of | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
travel. Today, one in four young people say they have been targeted | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
with online hate because of their gender, the sexual orientation, the | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
race, or their transgender identity. The quarters say it has an effect on | :30:18. | :30:25. | |
how they use the Internet in the future, for they are free exchange | :30:26. | :30:28. | |
of ideas. Teachers report a 40% increase in cyber crime, with | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
perpetrators winding new ways to reduce their victims, skirting | :30:36. | :30:37. | |
around the law. Parents have found it almost impossible to get rid of | :30:38. | :30:46. | |
you Tube and making the lives of you Tube and making the lives of | :30:47. | :30:56. | |
many teenagers unbearable. There wouldn't be one MP in this house | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
that hasn't had constituents who have spoken to them about the issue | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
and I commend her for making that point. Not only do we have the | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
trolling of young people, we had the digital usage as well and it all in | :31:12. | :31:19. | |
facts and not just on a young person's personality and how they | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
respond, but in some cases, it has led to suicide and death. Is it not | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
time we have legislation that responded ably to this issue and put | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
those people behind bars, where they those people behind bars, where they | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
should be? He has a long-standing interest in this issue as well, | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
which I know from our conversations. He is right, the law is not | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
protecting many young people, who feel vulnerable, and in some tragic | :31:48. | :31:54. | |
cases, it has led to them taking their own lives. I think we have to | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
take this far more seriously and we have to make sure our laws are | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
robust. To deal with some very unpleasant truths that are within | :32:02. | :32:09. | |
this as well, and particularly the trading of sexual images, which is | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
currently going unchecked, for fear of criminalising teenagers. But we | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
know within these cases, around one in ten could involve an adult, | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
leaving young people at real risk of leaving young people at real risk of | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
sexual exploitation while the police are finding it difficult to know how | :32:30. | :32:36. | |
to cope. Does she agree with me that one of the largest concerns is the | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
under reporting by young people of these issues and surely, what we do | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
see the police see is just the tip of the iceberg. It's important with | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
that the cultural issues around this as well. She brings up good point. | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
Even when the crimes are reported, police find it almost impossible to | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
know how to tackle them, maybe because the law is inadequate, but | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
also because maybe their training is inadequate as well. I recently was | :33:00. | :33:07. | |
given some evidence by Good Morning Britain where they uncovered that | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
one in six crimes reported under revenge pornography laws involved | :33:13. | :33:16. | |
children under 18. That's not children under 18. That's not | :33:17. | :33:19. | |
revenge pornography, that this child abuse, but is being attributed in | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
this way by the police are leading to exactly what she is saying, which | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
is under reporting of one of the most appalling crimes that can | :33:28. | :33:35. | |
exist. I welcome the work she has done on this issue and I have been | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
involved in the Reclaim The Internet campaign to bring organisations and | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
individuals together to tackle online abuse. I agree with her that | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
there are big questions for the law and for policing, particularly | :33:52. | :33:53. | |
it comes to protecting young people. it comes to protecting young people. | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
But that she also agree that we need much stronger responsibility from | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
everyone, including other organisations and social media | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
platforms, and which she welcome the work that Stonewall and Facebook | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
have been doing to tackle online bullying and LG BT discrimination | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
and homophobia and the work they have been doing to launch a new | :34:16. | :34:22. | |
online guides tomorrow? Thank you for intervening and highlighting the | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
work that is going on in this area. I do contribute to the campaign she | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
has started as a cross-party campaign, to make sure we can come | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
together and fight a unified solution to this problem, which I | :34:39. | :34:41. | |
think is one of the biggest problems is country is facing at the moment. | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
Because online abuse is not something that simply affects one | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
group of people, it goes across society and is wrecking the lives of | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
adults as well. This government does have to be applauded for being one | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
of the first in the world to recognise online image -based sexual | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
pornography laws, which is the pornography laws, which is the | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
leader of the house, when he was Lord Chancellor, was instrumental in | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
putting into place. This actually has been vindicated, because have | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
been more than 3000 calls to the revenge pornography helpline since | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
these laws were passed, laws which I was told when not needed, because | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
was inadequate law in place already. We've had 1000 reported incidents in | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
just six months last year. There is just six months last year. There is | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
much more to do to make those more effective and make the police able | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
to prosecute effectively, but I think it shows the government is | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
open to persuasion on this issue and hope it shows open-mindedness for | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
the future. Because now is the time for a very clear strategy to tackle | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
these problems. Every person in the country, regardless of that age | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
should have an expectation to be able to use social media platforms | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
and mobile technology without being subject to criminal abuse. The | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
online world as part of everybody's lives. The Minister on the front | :36:03. | :36:10. | |
bench today, has a deep interest and knowledge of these issues and I know | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
the personal work he has done behind-the-scenes to try and press | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
forward on many of these issues, and he should be commended for that. The | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
minister's proposals in the Digital economy Bill to stop underage access | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
to pornography, I know they have been subject to a great deal of | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
attention from him. They are very welcomed, but they do reinforce a | :36:32. | :36:39. | |
piecemeal approach to this problem. Experts have already made clear that | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
children will be more than well equipped to get round most barriers | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
that will be put up to stop them getting access to pornography. This | :36:48. | :36:54. | |
may well be an approach which can help us stop younger children | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
inadvertently coming across pornography, which is something I | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
know the NSPCC have highlighted in some recent research, but we need to | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
understand that if this government's policy is to be effective, it has to | :37:07. | :37:13. | |
be part of a much broader and clearer strategic plan, which | :37:14. | :37:15. | |
includes mandatory sexual education in all of our state funded schools, | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
but also that children can be given the opportunity to understand how to | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
make the right choices for them and a bit pornography Lacey into the | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
proper perspective is in their lives. I join with others in | :37:30. | :37:37. | |
commending her on this debate. She mentions the multifaceted approach, | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
including one of the areas that concerns me, when I hear cases in my | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
constituency, which is the irresponsibility of some parents, | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
who give media and digital platform devices to their children at a very | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
young age and then leave them to it. Surely, we need to do more to | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
educate the parents as to their responsibility, how they can teach | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
their children to manage these devices in a responsible way. He is | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
absolutely right. We find it very easy to talk about putting | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
responsibilities onto schools to teach them, but it starts with | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
parents. If we're getting these devices to our children, and I would | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
also say gaming devices as well, because that is obviously clear | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
problems there with regard to the grooming of children, that we have | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
to make sure they are knowledgeable to make sure they are knowledgeable | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
about the risks and that they can start to make informed choices from | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
a very early age. But that can be so easily reinforced at school and, | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
while in the past I have been very open that I have felt section major | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
occasion should be something that is determined by a school, but I think | :38:51. | :38:53. | |
as we move into this online world, the very real dangers and problems | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
that children are encountering, it has certainly changed my view on the | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
need to make that compulsively. The online world has some of the best | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
and the brightest people working in it. The response to the child abuse | :39:08. | :39:14. | |
problems, child abuse image problems we had, shows that when pressure is | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
applied, this incredibly creative industry can react and react quite | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
swiftly. When we are clear about our terms of engagement, and this debate | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
today is about enabling Parliament to send a clear message to the | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
industry, to social media and the online world, to say enough is | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
enough. Our constituents deserve better, and we will fight, as the | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
Right Honourable lady has said in her campaign, to reclaim the | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
Internet for them. I'd like to take this responsibility to thank the | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
Backbench Business Committee are recognising the importance of this | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
debate and allowing myself and I are both friends to sponsor this debate | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
together. I'd also like to thank the myriad of organisations who have | :40:03. | :40:04. | |
worked with me and my honourable friend to prepare for the debate | :40:05. | :40:13. | |
with Durham University, NSPCC, Stonewall, the list goes on, because | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
that are so many organisations who have a deep concern about the | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
direction of travel. Social media platforms and Internet providers are | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
facilitators, like many other organisations in our country, they | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
provide a service, a service with a label to gather personal details in | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
order to sell the advertising opportunities. It can sometimes be | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
quite astonishing how you can view appeared issues on website and have | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
hours later. In an entirely hours later. In an entirely | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
different context. I really take my hat off to them in a way the little | :40:50. | :40:56. | |
to do this. It is a sophisticated industry, with sensitive and | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
well-developed ways to gather information to sell sales | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
opportunities and then obviously to make a successful business out of | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
that. So what I am calling for today is for some of that incredible | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
talent and expertise to be focused on stopping online abuse. There are | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
four issues I think that need to be addressed. First, we need to make | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
sure we have laws that are fit for purpose and I pay tribute to the | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
work done by Durham University in particular. We need to clarify what | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
constitutes online abuse, we need better and clearer harassment laws, | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
we need image -based sexual abuse law, which makes all forms of image | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
-based sexual abuse sheared in a non-consensual manner in legal, we | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
need to have, we need to end complete unanimous in mid-2 in the | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
UK, we need to insist that platforms have a legal duty to be able to | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
identify the people who use their products in our country. | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
We need to make clear that those platforms have two abide by a common | :42:05. | :42:13. | |
standard. They need to provide accurate figures on the cases of | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
reported abuse. When they are developing products, it needs to be | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
done in a way which builds out abuse in the future, rather than building | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
it in at the starting point. We need to be clear to online providers in | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
our country that if they failed to take sensible measures to reduce | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
online abuse, we as Apollo and should be considering putting in | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
place a levy to cover the costs are policing -- as a Parliament. This is | :42:44. | :42:51. | |
something that's been done in other areas, and I think here about the | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
payments made by football teams to have policing of football stadium | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
will stop this isn't a new idea but is one which might concentrate the | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
mind when it comes to online abuse in the future. Madam Deputy is | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
bigger, last but not these, we need to see a change in culture. I | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
believe that changing culture should be around, send, respect and | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
dignity. And that needs to be at the heart of eight compulsory delivered | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
sex and later Jeb education in all of our schools, but to go beyond and | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
to rent some pains to make sure people know their own | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
responsibilities to act responsible. That'll be driven greatly by | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
removing the veil of anonymity, which currently cloaks so many | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
inputs into social media. Madam Deputy Speaker, where there is a | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
well, there is a way, then the Minister today will want to show the | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
House there is a clear rule coming from government. More than four | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
years ago, the Prime Minister said there was no tolerance of child | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
abuse on mine, and at that point the industry had said it could do little | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
about it. Now there is a clear strategy, protocols and images | :44:07. | :44:13. | |
removed swiftly. Where a worrying increase in online hate crime | :44:14. | :44:15. | |
spilling onto the offline world, we need to make sure we act swiftly. We | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
need to make sure that cyber bullying and the newly formed | :44:23. | :44:31. | |
concept of online dating is shown short shrift, now is the time to | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
act. The Minister need to show us he has an understanding of the need for | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
a clear strategy to tackle online abuse in its totality. In the | :44:40. | :44:48. | |
digital goal communication act, he has the vehicle he needs, to make | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
any changes that such a strategy might call for. My honourable friend | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
is a good man, you knows the online worlds needs to have a clear message | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
from this House. My hope is he listens to the debate today. He | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
listens to it intently and takes the message back to his departments and | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
back to the industry itself to say that now is the time for change. If | :45:13. | :45:22. | |
everybody takes eight minutes and no longer, I don't need to impose a | :45:23. | :45:31. | |
time limit. I want to begin by thanking The right honourable member | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
for Basingstoke for securing this debate on the backbench committee | :45:37. | :45:38. | |
too. She's done a great deal in her role as chair, and indeed before | :45:39. | :45:46. | |
that on problems of online abuse increasingly experienced by women. I | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
want to commend to particularly for her work on the revenge born | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
legislation. We know online abuse can take a variety of forms, cruel | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
commons and messages, the sharing of photos without consent, being sent | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
unwanted images or threats of sexual or physical violence. Whilst there | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
is a range of forms of online abuse, one thing is clear, that is online | :46:11. | :46:17. | |
abuse is happening consistently across all social media platforms | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
and something more needs to be done to stop it. I'm pleased to be | :46:23. | :46:30. | |
supporting my right honourable friend's campaign along with other | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
members of the House, to reclaim the Internet campaign, which aims to | :46:36. | :46:43. | |
demand change so voices are not silent by sexism, racism, | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
homophobia, transfer beer or any other forms of intimidation online. | :46:47. | :46:57. | |
-- transphobia. It will bring together antibody and campaigners, | :46:58. | :47:03. | |
groups and members of the industry itself to see what steps can be | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
taken to stop abusive behaviour. I hope it is a campaign that all | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
members of the House can get behind. As I mentioned, the issue of online | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
abuse affects many people and groups in society, but it seems women are | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
subject particularly, and I want to focus my comments on women today. | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
Online abuse for women contains frequent use of threats of sexual | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
violence and a rubber treat common is about women's Perrins and bodies, | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
they are the major victims of revenge born, explicit photos, which | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
I shared without consent, those individuals who perpetrate online | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
abuse take even greater pleasure in shouting down women who speak out | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
against it. I think this is something which we have two address. | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
I'm sure many of my fellow female members from across the House are | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
all-too-familiar with this kind of online abuse. What we do know is | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
anonymity and distance that people think the social media gives them | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
enables them to say things online that I hope they would never say | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
face-to-face. But this online abuse must be tackled so it doesn't | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
prevent women from wanting to get involved in public life. And when it | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
comes the young people and online abuse, it is young women who are | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
disproportionately affected as well. A study in the United States found | :48:28. | :48:41. | |
25% of women aged 18 to 24 had been targeted by harassment, and 26% had | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
been stalked online. That's one in four women, it is appalling. It's | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
need to me made clear this behaviour is acceptable. The study I refer to | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
also found men are more likely to report online abuse than women, said | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
there is some kind of disconnect going on where women don't feel able | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
to report, maybe feel it is not even a reportable crime. I think it | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
enables women to take their complaints to police, which is | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
something we have two address as well. I will give way. I'm grateful | :49:16. | :49:30. | |
because she hit it right. In the case of revenge born, do she agree | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
that one of the things that could make a difference would be if we | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
were to give anonymity to those who have been victims of it? That would | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
be something that would bring more people forward to make complaints, | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
leading to prosecutions. The right honourable gentleman makes an | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
interesting point and is one we need to look at in more detail. And the | :49:52. | :50:01. | |
issue affects young children, younger children, and young women | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
still at school. One of the ways in which the issue of online abuse was | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
first brought my attention was by head teachers in my constituency | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
coming tell me what problem online abuse is in schools and asking if I | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
could raise the issue in Parliament and see what could be done to try | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
and help teachers and others in school to tackle it. I'm also a | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
member of the Commonwealth woman Parliament, a branch, and we've | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
looked at the issue of relevance against women and in particular the | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
rise of online abuse as a form of violence against women. This is | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
becoming such a significant element of women's public life that we made | :50:47. | :50:53. | |
it one of the key things of our conference, our international | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
conference in 2015. We heard from groups who outlined the difficulty | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
of tackling horrific online abuse of women, along with legal | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
professionals who also pointed out that current legislation simply | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
isn't where it needs to be on this issue. And what we did through that | :51:14. | :51:21. | |
conference was identifying online abuse as a global phenomenon, and we | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
wanted to work with partners in other countries so we can end up | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
with the best legislation possible. And that work is ongoing. But I'd | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
also like to take this opportunity to praise my own constabulary in | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
Durham and achieve Constable, who has been at the forefront of | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
speaking on this issue from a policing perspective and he is had | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
it in the at the time police are putting in to having to deal with | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
instances which have occurred online. He has also talked about the | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
need to clarify legislation to make it much easier for police to deal | :51:57. | :52:04. | |
with complaints about online abuse, and in exactly how to tackle them | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
and when to put them into a criminal category. We will need to make sure | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
our police are as well equipped as they can be to deal with the ever | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
changing nature of crime and the New World of online harassment. In | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
particular, we need to make sure they have the resources to deal with | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
it, but police officers also need to have the training to deal with it | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
because only 7500 out of 100,000 police officers in England and Wales | :52:33. | :52:39. | |
have the training. I do welcome the move is the government have made in | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
this area and they know the Minister sitting on the front bench will be | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
listening to what we have to say today. As we become increasingly | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
technological, we need to ensure our laws reflect that. Again, I want to | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
pay tribute to the work that's being done at Durham University, which is | :52:58. | :53:06. | |
outlining very clearly to as how we need to consolidate legislation that | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
already exists, update legislation that exists and then have a very | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
clear strategy as to how that legislation is implemented and | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
enforced, and it is only when we do that, Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
we get the change in culture, which is what the right honourable lady | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
was stressing earlier, that we need to stop all forms of online abuse | :53:30. | :53:36. | |
happening. I would also like to find the backbench minister and my right | :53:37. | :53:42. | |
honourable friend forgiven us the opportunity to talk about this | :53:43. | :53:50. | |
issue. I expect I came to this after a few incidents being reported in my | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
own consistency, and I thought I was uncovering something Ltd and | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
isolated and an occasional problem. Even in the short space of time | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
looking more deeply, I discovered it is in fact a huge issue which is | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
affecting vast as our people, young and old, not just of my own | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
catchment spread across the rest of the UK. This is well illustrated by | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
the information from victims aboard who worked with 4000 children in | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
schools over the last three years. They tell them 56% of those 12,000 | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
children were identified as victims of online crime. This is a | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
staggering and worrying statistic. 41% reported targeted bullion online | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
from their peers, and a third reported being sent non-requested | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
online pornography. This is a significant underestimation of the | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
problem, because a lot of people may be fearful of reporting this, may | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
not know how to do it or indeed where to go. But as we've heard | :54:54. | :55:00. | |
before, I don't want to repeat what has been said word for word, but | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
this isn't just a problem which impacts on young people and their | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
families, we know we are talking about racism, gender issues, | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
homophobia, anti-Semitic abuse, we are talking about prejudice and | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
intimidation, including religion, sex, and just in some cases people's | :55:21. | :55:29. | |
everyday beliefs. You go, they serve eight 2000 adults, 81% reported | :55:30. | :55:39. | |
bullion as commonplace, 56% reported it commonplace at work and city 4% | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
believe it is widespread free society generally. I wonder, had | :55:44. | :55:53. | |
YouGov undertaking that a few years ago, what the consequences would | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
have been. It knows no barriers, it is for the young and old, it can be | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
anonymous. It was described to me like a persistent headache in which | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
you simply can't escape. There is no safe place you can go. No private | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
haven where you can escape the impact of the online bullion. It can | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
lead to damage to reputation, loss of jobs, relationship breakdowns, | :56:19. | :56:27. | |
isolation and even suicide. One of the issues we discovered when we | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
will look into it is nobody really knows exactly how big the issue is. | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
This is part of the problem, this is what we are trying to understand. | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
With over 30 pieces of legislation covering crimes, it is difficult to | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
get a really clear picture. The closest we could come was courtesy | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
of the library, prosecution starts under section 127. In 2004, 143 | :56:52. | :57:02. | |
people were found guilty, cautions proceeded against them. In 2014, ten | :57:03. | :57:08. | |
years later, that had gone up to 1002 ended and nine, and that was an | :57:09. | :57:18. | |
80% increase in the years 2014 -- 1209. That is a dramatic increase in | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
prosecutions under that one single piece of that abuses of available | :57:23. | :57:29. | |
legislation. There is a concern about consistent terminology. We | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
don't seem to really be able to define clearly exactly what online | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
abuse is, but there does seem to be some concern within the law of some | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
misunderstanding of what it is. Therefore how can we define it and | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
therefore there can be an inconsistent application of the law. | :57:48. | :57:56. | |
We welcome the the revised guidelines, but there is a bit of a | :57:57. | :58:05. | |
question about whether that goes quite far enough. I'm also concerned | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
that the Government earlier this year said it did not intend to | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
introduce specific additional legislation to address online | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
harassment and Internet trolling. The reason the Government gave for | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
this is a didn't want to find itself in a position where young people | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
were being unnecessarily criminalised. That's an entirely | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
justifiable position, but it does demonstrate I think a narrow | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
awareness of the true scale of the problem and doesn't take into | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
account the many other target groups who find themselves victims of this | :58:40. | :58:47. | |
kind of problem. The Minister on her feet did go as far as think it is | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
imperative for these laws rigorously enforced. I think that an issue we | :58:54. | :58:59. | |
must address with those charged with doing that. How does this harassment | :59:00. | :59:08. | |
take place? As we have heard, it is abusive messages, online, text, | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
e-mail, social media, Digital photos used to embarrass the victim, sexual | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
grooming, extortion, blackmail and anything else these people seem to | :59:17. | :59:21. | |
be all to think of. I did National stalking helpline has already been | :59:22. | :59:27. | |
referred to so find the debate, but their statistics show the highest | :59:28. | :59:32. | |
percentage of abusive behaviour is digital rather than off-line and | :59:33. | :59:35. | |
children and adults are now finding themselves in this world where -- | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
from which there is no escape from this kind of activity, the more | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
dependent we become on online activity generally. So the question | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
is do we know the scale of the problem, it seems we do not. How | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
many people are afraid to report it? We don't know, except in other | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
thousands. How many do not know how to report it or who to report it to? | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
We don't know the answer to that either. It is probably plenty | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
though. Our schools are equipped to spot the signs and should the | :00:06. | :00:08. | |
responsibility lie exclusively with them? I don't think we know the | :00:09. | :00:14. | |
answer to that either. Or the police train, do they have the resources, | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
are they serious about healing with some of the reports they get? We | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
don't know the answer to that. All the existing law satisfactorily | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
enforced when it appears that even from the responsible Government | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
minister that they actually believe there is further enforcement issues | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
to be addressed? And do the social media platforms take the | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
responsibility -- responsibilities seriously enough? It has been | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
referred to by my colleagues opposite earlier that organisations | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
like Facebook and Twitter have done a great deal to try and improve the | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
situation and are taking this problem seriously. Books, and there | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
is a but, if we, some of us in this chamber of the nerve to go back to | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
the days when communication through printed newspaper, there was no | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
question at all that if any of us wrote a letter to the editor in the | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
days we could do and contained within it some of the stuff which | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
now appears to be perfectly reasonable to put on Twitter or | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
Facebook that we would have added a blip into an open the bin. But now, | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
some of these platforms are facilitated some pretty disgusting | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
material and sort of saying it is up to the victim to complain to the | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
police if wish. I am not sure that the social media platforms could | :01:38. | :01:44. | |
work... Quite the position where we can say they are fully responsible. | :01:45. | :01:52. | |
So to finish, it good news that the cps have a knowledge concerned that | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
this is by news that the Government feels there is nothing further it is | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
obliged to do at this stage. It is good news is there such a wide | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
collection of charities and organisations and groups who have | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
helped us and bringing this to public attention. It is good news | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
that the Duke of Cambridge is behind the prevention of cyber bullying. As | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
he put it, we need to stand up and not stand by. The reason for that is | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
that I am not worried we are living in a world where somehow, this kind | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
of language, this kind of code, these can of incidents we read about | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
becoming so widespread and so common that they are almost becoming | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
normal. And they become normal, then what hope can we have for children | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
and honourable adults living in this kind of cyber world? It is for that | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
reason that we thought it would be appropriate to bring it to the | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
House's attention today. Can I congratulate the member for | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
Basingstoke for bringing this important debate to the Backbench | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
Business Committee. This is a serious ongoing problem for all in a | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
modern society and it spans all age groups and demographics. We know | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
that research commissioned by some group that 10,000 tweets are several | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
UK gallons simply three bees aggressively attacking somebody as I | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
quote, being a shut or a horse. Revenge point helpline received 4000 | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
calls in the last year with cases as young as 11 years old been reported. | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
According to the largest teaching union in the UK, over half of | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
teachers report receiving online abuse as well. In February this | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
year, the UK safe Internet centre published a study which find -- | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
found that of those 13-18 -year-old survey, 24% had been targeted | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
because of their gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
disability or transgender identity. One in 25 said they were singled out | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
for abuse all or most of the time. While this abuse has banned all of | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
society, teenagers with disabilities and mostly African, Caribbean, Asian | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
or Middle Eastern groups were more likely to encounter cyber bullying. | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
Parliaments and governments across the UK have a responsibility to face | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
up to the issue and take appropriate action to prevent and indeed | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
addressed it. That is why in Scotland our First Minister has been | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
very vocal in condemning this issue while the Scottish Government have | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
also provided full funding to Scotland's and bullying service | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
which is managed by the Association for mental health. This vital | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
service works with adults involved in the lives of children and young | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
people to give them practical skills and confidence to deal with children | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
who are bullied and those who bully others. I think it is important to | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
those of us in public life to provide leadership on this issue and | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
I know that all members here will agree that no one, no one should | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
have to access online abuse and also been subject to this most reported | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
to the police and was not suffer in silence, nor should they suffer | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
alone. I want to be able to use on my own personal experience of this | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
issue to encourage the public to stand up to online abuse. And as for | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
those in public life to show stronger public leadership in the | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
conduct of our public debate. When I decided to start up Oliver but I did | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
so because I wanted to make a positive difference to the lives of | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
people in my constituency and across the country. I did so in the full | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
knowledge that by standing up for what I believe in I would hold | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
myself open to challenge for those who don't share my political | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
beliefs. A robust, honest political debate about our views is a vital | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
part of any democracy and we should embrace it. But as we saw from the | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
report published by Sir John Chilcott yesterday, an absence of | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
critical the bit in Parliament and in the democratic system can have | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
disastrous consequences. I came in with a full knowledge and | :05:54. | :05:55. | |
expectation that my words and actions will be held up to public | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
scrutiny and that is right. What has and has taken my breath away though, | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
shocked my family and reduced me to tears is the virtually hateful and | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
sometimes criminal levels of personal abuse that I and colleagues | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
across this House have faced. I've received hateful handwritten letters | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
containing sexual slurs, phone calls to my office threatening violence to | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
my staff and myself and racist e-mails speaking at what people want | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
to do to people like me who Muslims. Communications like these are,, but | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
they are not an everyday experience. I should say at this point that I'm | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
grateful for the work of the police here at Westminster, in Scotland and | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
across the UK for the work they do in helping support those who are | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
falling victim to these crimes and investigate those who are the | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
perpetrators. I know they provide estimate that a level of support to | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
victims regardless of their background or circumstances and it | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
is very important we must all encourage reporting it at every | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
stage. I know I'm not alone in my determination to make myself open | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
and available to those to whom I'm accountable and in the 21st-century, | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
that means being active on social media. I agree as:'s first minute | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
when she said that it is a positive power of Twitter and Facebook and | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
because of it we can communicate directly with our constituents about | :07:19. | :07:20. | |
the work we are doing on their behalf and hear their views without | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
a filter or barrier between us. But the great tragedy of this new | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
technology for all of us is the advancement of online bullying, | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
abuse and threats. I know this horrific experience is not just | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
confined to those of us across this chamber. I want to say directly to | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
those watching from outside Parliament who have been victims of | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
online abuse, from all of us here today that we stand right beside | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
you, because we know how it feels. We understand the pain you have been | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
through and will do our best to address this horrendous issue. The | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
past 14 months have seen equal in that sea, received messages calling | :08:00. | :08:06. | |
for me to be shot as a traitor,. Recently I spoke to a Sunday | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
newspaper were grateful for the article they published which include | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
some of the dreadful things that I have had said to me, none of them | :08:14. | :08:20. | |
are worthy of repeating. My husband sees these messages, my children | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
read this garbage. My staff are required to wade through this | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
sickening filled each day to get to the important information they need | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
to do their jobs. I am grateful, she is making an honourable point. But | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
she agree with me that all victims, including politicians should be | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
given all the help and support they need and deserve to move on in their | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
life and their careers and Britney but the traitors to justice? -- | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
bring the traitors to justice. I agree with her. It is difficult for | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
anyone who faces eight and is in anticipation we all have to be | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
strong, but maybe we all are not and some people are different levels of | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
strength to others so there must be support mechanisms and help people | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
to move on. But the matter who the victim is, this is disgusting and | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
violence which is why our support the very honourable aims and | :09:15. | :09:16. | |
objectives of the reclaim the Internet campaign and can I play -- | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
pay tribute and compassionate all those involved in setting this up | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
across this chamber and beyond and in seizing the initiative. We must | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
examine the role of the police and prosecutors and the clear around | :09:30. | :09:31. | |
where the threats and harassment become crimes. Social media and | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
publishing platforms must access this series issue and take steps to | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
address it. We are entitled to expect more from Facebook and | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
Twitter in their handling of these issues. We must look all to provide | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
support for victims and outer take on each roles and we must empower | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
and educate our young people about these issues and how to address | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
them. The individual members of Parliament are not responsible for | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
this specific content written by others, but we are responsible for | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
setting the tone of the national debate. I blew that a vital point in | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
our politics and we have recently made significant and defining | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
decisions about the type of country, society we want to be. We can | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
embrace the politics of hope or the politics of hate. It is our role as | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
a lecturer presents tips to show leadership and conduct ourselves in | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
a way which divides the political debates and in closing, Madam Deputy | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
Speaker, I will say to those that may be watching who are doling out | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
abuse on the Internet, Babbs even as we speak, that you are the cowards. | :10:40. | :10:50. | |
But we will stand up for the brave. Tragically, online abuse has become | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
a part of all our lives. I have been subject to it and I'm not a member | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
of a minority, religion or race, but like many other members, I've had | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
abuse online. Nothing that has really hurt or affect me terribly, | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
but on one occasion, I simply posted online some comment about some boy | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
racers who are causing anti-social behaviour and within about an hour, | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
I was being abused from all around the globe. It came from boy racers | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
who had obviously noticed a deficit in my sex life and were offering a | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
wide range of suggestions to improve this, some of which would have ended | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
in certain death. It is becoming clear to me from my | :11:30. | :11:48. | |
mailbox how much online Internet abuse is affecting my residence, it | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
is growing all the time, whether it is chilled and women facing | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
stalking. Or from ex-partners. I have noticed within just the last | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
two years, an enormous improvement in the police response, where is two | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
years ago, I was finding we were suggesting to women they came off | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
Facebook or stopped being online. They now have more appropriate | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
responses and I'm recognising the police recognise net you should be | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
saved to be online as part of the modern age, as you should be walking | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
in the street. We still have some way to go. I'm pleased to say that | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
today, it has been recognised that Essex Police, they are indeed rated | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
as effective and reliable in their treatment of runnable victims. It is | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
incredibly important we get the legislation right for this. As the | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
Minister is sitting listening to this. My Chief Constable said it has | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
been pointed out the police are dealing with 30 different pieces of | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
legislation which are not working for victims. The legislations are | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
either out of date or don't go further and nerve and the police | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
need to be trained to deal with the magnitude of cases of online abuse. | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
Our role must be when we are taken forward the recently digital bill, | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
that we future proof read and are not playing catch up in this arena | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
because the worlds of the Digital economy is growing and is becoming | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
more sophisticated. The pace of change is outstripping the pace of | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
change and other technologies. I'd like to make a wider points, which | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
has been picked up on by my right on boyfriend for calm on We all see the | :13:39. | :13:51. | |
vile comments on your local newspaper or national newspaper, and | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
those we get on Twitter. We have seen in the last week, post-Brexit, | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
an appalling upsurge of racist comments, all which are vile and | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
should be prosecuted. We've also seen quite a shocking thing in the | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
wake of Brexit, which is quite nice, liberal minded people, people who | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
would process themselves to be aggressive and think it is | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
reasonable to abuse 17 million of their fellow countrymen as being | :14:22. | :14:30. | |
clearly stupid or racist. This is no less a liberal thinking to say, all | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
people of a certain race, it is no less intolerant. The fact where we | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
have a culture where people think they can say these things, even | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
intelligent people, online, they are turning into... Saying things they | :14:49. | :14:55. | |
would never dream of saying face-to-face, and therefore I have | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
to say we all have a responsible to to deal with this in our culture, | :14:59. | :15:05. | |
because if that's is acceptable, no window women don't come forward and | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
take the grant of the attacks they have, no wonder children think it is | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
right to be attacked, no wonder the perpetrators and criminals feel | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
emboldened and their behaviour is normal. I would say to everyone who | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
goes online, please post nothing you would not write or not prepared to | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
give your full name and address, this is a cultural issue and | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
legislation alone will never tackle this unless we all take personal | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
responsible that he would changing culture. | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
It is a cliche to say the Internet has changed the world we live in, | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
but it is a cliche because it is true. It is not possible to list the | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
changes the Internet has brought because over the last 25 years, it's | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
been simply all pervasive and is now which a wet in the form of | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
smartphones, we can now carry them around in our pockets. I know I am | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
labouring a obvious truth but it is important in this debate we take a | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
moment to reflect on just how central the Internet has become to | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
our daily lives. From my generation, the Internet, when we stop and think | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
about it, is a technical marvel, but young people, growing up the things | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
that happen online are another normal everyday part of their world. | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
That is why it is important we have this debate, because we simply | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
cannot stand by and watch the sort of abuse and harassment that they | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
small minority of Internet users inflict upon the rest of us to | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
become normalised. I don't think it is too much of a well prediction to | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
say the Internet, social media and smartphones are all here to stay, so | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
it is vital we do all we can to combat and prevent the apparent | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
misuse of powerful tools for communicating thoughts and ideas. | :16:57. | :17:05. | |
I thank the honourable member for giving away. I wondered if she | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
believed the government should think about the additional cost that are | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
incurred as a result of the impact of some of the bullying, trolling | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
and abuse people experience. In my area, there is a 25% increase in | :17:21. | :17:27. | |
referrals to children, adolescent mental health services, so it has a | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
big impact on the financial side. I agree with my right honourable | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
friend. It is something that must be considered. I will carry on to say | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
that the sheer scale of this issue is daunting, as public figures that | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
many others have been on the receiving end. To give a key | :17:49. | :17:57. | |
statistics, in Greater London, only 9% of online hate crimes were | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
investigated nationwide. Back in 2014, the charity beat bullying, | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
reported a third of young people experienced bullying online, | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
including one in 58 to 11-year-olds, while one in 30 subjected to | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
relentless abuse over a period of weeks or even years. And check, the | :18:19. | :18:26. | |
revenge helpline received thousands of calls. The nature of the problem | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
means there is no quick fixes. The anonymity the Internet allows Jesus | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
can ignore social conventions around what it is -- allows users. It is | :18:38. | :18:45. | |
easy to say behind a mask. Facebook did not rate Mr Budgie -- misogyny. | :18:46. | :18:54. | |
Those who hold these views hold them in the real world and are taking | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
advantage of the anonymity. As much as he might like to, we cannot | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
simply pass a law which would do away with intolerance. That is not | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
to say that either as a Parliament or a society, we are helpless. We | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
might not be able to flick a switch but we can take steps to tackle the | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
problem. Take online platforms, for instance. Over the last three years, | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
Facebook, Twitter and Google have began engaging with their users and | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
made it easier to report on line abuse. They ought to be commended. | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
However, there are concerns that none of these companies are fully | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
transparent about the measures they are taken internally to get to grips | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
Republicans people using their sites have. Twitter claims it employs more | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
than 100 staff to deal with reported at the youth, who presumably cover | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
the entire network of 320 million users. Likewise, Facebook says it | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
has several hundred people monitoring abuse, which sounds | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
impressive, though this is a website Web 1.6 billion users. Too often | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
users are unclear on how to report abuse and how it will be dealt with | :20:16. | :20:23. | |
that when they do. We need greater transparency from platforms and how | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
they enforce their terms of use, and I would urge the government to work | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
constructively with them to encourage them to be more open about | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
the scale of the problems and their responses. In terms of what we can | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
do as lawmakers, there are practical responses that ministers should be | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
considering. First and foremost, we need legislation which clearly | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
defines online abuse and consolidates our existing laws. | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
According to Digital trust, there are more than 30 pieces of | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
legislation being used to tackle online crimes, including of all | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
things the offences against the Person act of 1861. As much as we | :21:06. | :21:14. | |
find them, it is time we ended our piecemeal approach and provided the | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
public with confidence and the police with clarity they need to | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
bring those offences online to book. The fragmented nature of the law | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
means the criminal justice system is often unsure as to whether an | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
offence has been committed, and is just not able to revive victims with | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
the service and protection they expect and deserve. They considered | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
Asian of the legislation can only be of value if it includes a clear | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
definition -- the consolidation. Our current mismatch approach means | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
adhesive Communications, which any reasonable person would judge to be | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
acceptable, often do not reach the legal threshold and so complaints | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
against them cannot be progressed. A clearer definition would go a long | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
way to limit in this problem and build public trust that those in | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
breach of the law can be held accountable. Looking at the police, | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
it is obvious they are under incredible pressure in trying to | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
deal with even that small proportion of online abuse, which is reported | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
to them. It is estimated that half of all crimes reported to the police | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
have some digital element, and they expect this to rise to 70% in the | :22:28. | :22:34. | |
next five years. However, just 7.5% of officers in England and Wales are | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
trained to investigate digital crime. The scale of this problem is | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
such that all police officers need to be in a position to tackle online | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
abuse. Knowing how to investigate and secure evidence. A consolidation | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
of legislation must be backed up by a corresponding overall of | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
enforcement, if we are to make any headway. That means not only a | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
review of the training given to officers, but also a serious rethink | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
about approaches to police recruitment. I appreciate the | :23:05. | :23:13. | |
strains police are under, but if we did not expand the ability to clamp | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
down, we will be stuck trying to apply 20 century methods to | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
21st-century problems. It is encouraging that online safety is | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
now part of the National Curriculum. We cannot underestimate the | :23:27. | :23:29. | |
importance of education for dealing with online abuse. As much as we | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
expect our children to learn the difference between right and wrong | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
in the wheel world and expect them to get along with one another, so we | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
must press home and press home early the same standards should apply | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
online. Clearly there is no magic bullet for dealing with online | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
abuse, but this does not mean the government should shy away from | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
confronting it. It will take a broad strategy, worked out across | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
departments and in fermented with service providers, charities and | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
many others. Such plans are not cobbled together overnight but I | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
would press the Minister to take today's debate as a starting point. | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
If we have shown anything, it is there's a strong desire to action | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
across the House and beyond, and I hope the government will be bold in | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
its response to a problem that we simply cannot to fester. | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
I would like to thank my right noble friend, but based on Stoke and Sal | :24:26. | :24:33. | |
Pembrokeshire, for securing in this debate, an issue of utmost response. | :24:34. | :24:43. | |
-- South Pembrokeshire. Revenge pawn was in the news recently for my own | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
home town, just back in April was up in the wake of this case, lessons | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
have been learned and the PCC and Chief Constable, I'm pleased to see, | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
are redoing training on those on the front line, to improve victims's | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
experience and claimed justice for them and better reflect how serious | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
and damaging online produces. We need that change in culture, where | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
online abuse is recognised as real worlds, causing as does emotional, | :25:15. | :25:22. | |
psychological and physical damage. Over 1000 cases, the BBC Freedom | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
education act, found only 7% receive a caution. I would like to share a | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
victim's plea to us. Her perpetrator was one of the 7%. This is an open | :25:35. | :25:43. | |
letter to those who have the power to lobby for change and this is my | :25:44. | :25:50. | |
story. The perpetrator was my manager. We stayed in contact long | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
after I laughed, left my job, remaining acquaintances via social | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
media -- I left. I discovered a message alerting me to a website | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
that contained my images. This website allowed individuals from all | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
over the world to upload the pictures of unsuspecting victims, | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
many of them children, and using those images as fodder for torture | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
fantasies. My page, which have been crated in October 2015, revealed my | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
full name, my personal Facebook account, a picture my toddler | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
daughter, and alongside these images, captions such as, would love | :26:30. | :26:37. | |
to beat her, she deserves to be gang raped. And urging people to find me, | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
to make contact and to show me what I deserved. I felt demeaned, exposed | :26:44. | :26:51. | |
to humiliated and embarrassed. Someone out there held all the | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
power, I wasn't even in control of my own image anymore. I needed to | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
take back control, so I put on my investigate a hat and after many | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
hours of trawling, thought I had found that perpetrator. I felt | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
initial relief and contacted the police next morning, believing I had | :27:14. | :27:15. | |
caught a criminal but handed. In an the police operator told me | :27:16. | :27:24. | |
there was nothing they could do because it was they police matter, | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
but a Facebook issue. I was advised to block him, as he obviously was | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
not my friend. I hung up the phone of feeling bitterly let down and | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
confused. I was told I would not be getting a crime number as my case | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
was not a real crime. It was more of a civil matter and perhaps I should | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
seek legal advice. That legal advice told me that the definitions of the | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
new law regarding revenge pawn and its phrasing meant that my case | :27:55. | :28:03. | |
would not be suitable. Since I have chosen to bring this subject to the | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
attention of the public, I have a mixed reactions. I have a strangers | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
come up to me in the street and talk to me about it which I still find | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
embarrassing. I have had people talk to me about it that parties where I | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
should be enjoying myself. I have had customers asked me where they | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
recognise me from and then give me a sympathetic and pitying look when I | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
confirm from where. Overall, I've been cheated like a victim by | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
everyone apart from the law. Perpetrators surely need to fear | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
that their online actions will have real consequences. My photos are | :28:42. | :28:49. | |
still online. I am sick of being a victim. What I ask is that with your | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
help, never again will I and others be made to feel insignificant when | :28:57. | :29:08. | |
reporting an online abuse crime. Of course, we've already heard today | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
and we've heard many striking, distressing personal accounts, I | :29:15. | :29:26. | |
thank the right honourable lady and the honourable member for South | :29:27. | :29:28. | |
Pembrokeshire. We've had other accounts and I'm honoured to follow | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
the member for Eastbourne and her accounts. We've heard of the | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
frightening increase in online abuse, digital crime and hate crime. | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
Many members of this House had been affected and literally countless | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
people outside here have been affected by this. The National | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
police league said last November that 50% of all reported crime and | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
now has an online compote and and is evident that the law has not kept up | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
with criminal activity. Online platform providers are rats best | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
slow to address abuse and should hold both abusers and themselves to | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
account for more effectively and rigorously. For all these reasons I | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
introduced the ten minute rule Bill drafted by Harry Fletcher of the | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
digital trust on this issue earlier this year in March. There are over | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
30 statutes passed over many decades which cover online abuse crime and | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
my bill that would place the responsibility on Government to | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
consolidate them all. Many online activities may or may not be against | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
the law, this but would clarify that. It will be an offence to | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
install a webcam on a person without their permission or without | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
legitimate reason. In addition, it would be illegal to repeatedly | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
locate, listen to or watch a person without legitimate purpose and this | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
bill would restrict the sale of spyware to those of 16. It would | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
also be wrong for a person today multiple images of another person | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
unless it was in the public interest to do so without that person's | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
permission and where the intent was not legitimate. We've had a number | :31:01. | :31:03. | |
of of this already. The bill would also make the law stronger on | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
abusive content, again, police officers are uncertain about what is | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
and what is not a crime and they are also overwhelmed by the sheer volume | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
of abuse they see and we've heard about inconsistencies of approach by | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
the police as well. This bill would make it clear that it is an offence | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
to put images online with the intention is to humour late or abuse | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
of the vixen and it also create an offence to create a message that is | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
to scrum and eight array and would incite abusive activity. All these | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
new offences would if put into action carry conviction is of up to | :31:35. | :31:41. | |
a year in custody. Any new powers for the police and CPS would have | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
limited impacts without changes to culture and training. The police | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
mistake online abuse and hate crime seriously and the bill would place | :31:50. | :31:52. | |
the responsibility on the Minister for education to ensure that all | :31:53. | :31:54. | |
establishments include sessions which warn children and students of | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
the risks of online services. We know this is happening in our | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
schools, this is an ongoing issue and tokenistic approaches to the | :32:03. | :32:05. | |
curriculum will not be sufficient. The Home Office will be tasked with | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
ensuring police are trained and also record complaints of digital hate | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
crime and abuse and finally, the bill would place duties on providers | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
of online services to adhere to codes of professional standards, | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
publish safety impact assessments and fully cooperate with the police | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
an ongoing investigations. The relevant ministers should also | :32:28. | :32:29. | |
ensure the best quality standards are followed across the industry. | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
I'm sure we all have a number of case studies we could talk about | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
here, but there was one from someone who wishes to remain anonymous, so I | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
will respect that, but I very much wanted to raise this case, because | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
it involved Facebook. It was a gentleman who is a teacher and | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
because I have my background prior to being fortunate to arrive in this | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
House a year ago, I was also a teacher and I was very much aware of | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
the impact that teachers... How vulnerable they are so, some pupils | :33:01. | :33:07. | |
and others. Obviously, the importance of child protection and | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
how they can be used against teachers at how little protection | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
they have. This gentleman contact me earlier this week to express his | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
frustration at Facebook and despite having no Facebook account itself, | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
pupils have stolen images from his website and used them to create a | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
false Facebook page in his name. This page then attracted other | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
pupils at his school. The head teacher, who not unusually, had | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
little understanding or experience of Facebook at one stage suspected | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
that each of the liberally attracting pupils. If the pupils had | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
not finally admitted to creating the page, the teacher could easily have | :33:49. | :33:51. | |
lost his job, as he was effectively unable to approve it was not | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
responsible for the page. The vixen in this instance state of the police | :33:57. | :33:58. | |
could only advise him to contact Facebook. -- victim. Facebook were | :33:59. | :34:07. | |
unhelpful and I am summarising the magnitude of the problems he had | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
with Facebook. Firstly, the teacher to get the password details from the | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
pupils are the page taken down. Secondly, and I feel it is | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
important, when raising questions about data protection, it became | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
apparent that he had to apply to the data protection Commissioner of | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
Ireland, as that is where Facebook's International office is based, and | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
all law except that of the United States and Canada in that case, has | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
to be cheated -- handed -- handled through that commission. It seems | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
Facebook has broad expectations of the users behaviour but are willing | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
to take little responsibility as a platform themselves for that | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
behaviour. There is a worrying lack of procedures to take down sites | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
with the onus on the victims to prove their identity. Facebook and | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
other sites need to be held to account for the nature of the | :34:59. | :35:00. | |
services they provide to users and whether those services in corporate | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
propaganda for customers and the public at large. It is not good | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
enough, and I had one of these messages on Twitter about 20 minutes | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
ago, it is not good enough Twitter to tell me to hide myself away and | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
to block messages from certain people. I want those people and | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
Twitter held to account if there are unacceptable messages on my account. | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
Finally, I believe the nature of how social media providers fulfil their | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
duty of care to private individuals and requires Fat follow | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
Parliamentary scrutiny and I await the minister's response. Thank you, | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. I would like to find the Backbench Business | :35:40. | :35:41. | |
Committee for having granted this debate and also my friend the | :35:42. | :35:51. | |
honourable than before Basingstoke. -- for Basingstoke. I'm sure many | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
members will have met in their surgeries the victims of online | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
abuse or their parents who come to those seeking either some sort of | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
redress or more often than not, some ongoing safety for their children. | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
It is interesting to know that organisations like the girl guides | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
with their attitude survey annually ascertain that cyber bullying is in | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
the top three concerns of girls between the ages of 15 and 20. It is | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
growing in its significance and indeed the impact it has on its | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
victims. Abuse is abuse. Wherever and however it happens. Just because | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
it is online, does not make it any less awful, but it does make it | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
significantly harder to identify perpetrators and bring them to | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
justice. It is not good enough to shrug one's shoulders and dismiss | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
the Internet as some sort of wild West ungovernable and devoid of | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
social norms and laws of the physical world. We have two, bring | :36:48. | :36:55. | |
an end to anonymity. -- we have to bring an end to anonymity. But we | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
must remember the victims are mostly children. I vividly recall my | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
daughter's going from primary to secondary school when her | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
headteacher got parents together to talk about the perils of Facebook. | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
At that time, social media was growing in popularity but was still | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
relatively small and there was not the multitude of platforms that | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
there are now. The phrase she used which will always stick with me is | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
that to be quite frank, children are losing the ability to empathise, | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
because in her view, there were making unpleasant comments online, | :37:29. | :37:30. | |
and unlike in the playground, when you do it on your smartphone, you do | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
not see the reaction in some's eyes. He not learning about the hurts, but | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
banking out a message which can have a terrible impact. The ability to | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
understand and comprehend the hurts you have caused is disappearing. It | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
is not just children losing that ability. People often say the most | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
dreadful things online they would never repeat in person or even on | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
the telephone. I sometimes find the best tactic if I receive an abusive | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
e-mail is to phone up the person and suddenly they turn into the most | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
polite and delightful constituent I could ever encounter. Just to say | :38:08. | :38:18. | |
that sometimes taking that even further, I have personally knocked | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
on doors of people who been particularly abusive and they | :38:22. | :38:29. | |
crumble. By honourable friend is slightly braver than me. But she | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
used the phrase keyboard warriors, who we find are incredibly brave in | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
the sanctuary of their own homes but timid in the real world. I always | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
think when you see online trolls who have been arrested and pictures | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
appear in the paper, they always look terribly inadequate and the | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
monsters they have made themselves in people's minds are not borne out | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
in reality. This info don't understand the terror that they can | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
cause. I've had my own experience of this and I remember vividly a | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
Facebook message I received from the of the purporting to be a woman | :39:02. | :39:07. | |
hiding behind a photograph of a dead lady, whose death had been covered | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
in the newspaper. They sent the most terrible message to me, | :39:13. | :39:14. | |
threateningly with rape, torture and ultimately death. And the greatest | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
experience I learned from that was it will take many months to read all | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
identities out of Facebook and they do appear to have become the | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
bogeyman of this debate and I think deservedly so. The actual | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
identities, when you find them, there is a sense of relief, because | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
it's an identifiable person and not necessarily somebody who lives | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
anywhere near you in the country, but it can be absolutely terrifying. | :39:40. | :39:47. | |
In this place... Question. Newspapers are not allowed to print | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
libels or defamatory comments or slanderous comments. Why cannot not | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
apply to social media platforms as well? He is absolutely correct, it | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
should apply to social media platforms and we as individuals | :40:04. | :40:05. | |
should be able to take action much more quickly and effectively against | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
them. It is as I said as if the Internet has become the wild West | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
where companies are often registered in the Republic of Ireland and it is | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
difficult from here to get the redress that we want. Sadly, in this | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
place, we've come to expect it, the trolling, the bile spat in the dead | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
of night and sometimes even from professional people who we might | :40:28. | :40:29. | |
hope would value their reputation and know better. We know the bar is | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
set high for members of Parliament, we are in the public eye and have | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
come to expect a bit of knock-about as it were. But it has actually gone | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
a great deal further than that. I would like to be a tribute to the | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
work the Right Honourable member for Norman to come upon to act in | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
Castleford has done to reclaim the Internet. One of my favourite | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
tactics and I may now get trolled for this, is it that someone sent me | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
something pernicious, I reply with a picture of a kitten. We have to | :40:59. | :41:06. | |
reclaim the Internet. We must be bold enough to stand up for | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
ourselves and try and engender a bit of humour, kindness and I think that | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
is the missing point, that there is no kindness on the Internet. Quite | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
frankly, when did it become OK to play the man and not the ball? Might | :41:20. | :41:30. | |
honourable friend made some cogent arguments and ministers have worked | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
hard on this with leading companies to find practical solutions about | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
identifying perpetrators. The laws of harassment and grooming all exist | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
as we have heard, but the very real anxieties about our victims can | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
report crimes easily and have their voices heard... Does my honourable | :41:45. | :41:53. | |
friend thing we should be looking at Australia and New Zealand who have | :41:54. | :41:55. | |
established websites to facilitate reporting and in fact may be at risk | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
of leaving the UK behind in the way they are trying to tackle this? | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
We have to find better method of reporting and took leave the | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
children. I will reinforce the plea my right honourable friend made | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
earlier, there need to be safe spaces were children and mechanisms | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
by which young people know who they can turn to. A critical part of that | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
is within schools,, particularly young people, they need to learn | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
about consent. They need to know what is OK in a relation ship. They | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
need to have people who they can turn to, to make sure they are | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
safeguarded and protected. We want them to be confident in themselves | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
and to know who they can turn to in a crisis, not one of the reasons why | :42:46. | :42:52. | |
I am so keen on compulsory SRE, because we need our young people to | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
recognise what is an abusive relationship. We need them to have | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
people who they can tell, to have teachers who are well-equipped to | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
deal with it. These are not easy subjects, therefore make them | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
statuary and make sure the training is put in to make it as competent in | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
their ability to deliver excellent quality in this respect. My right | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
honourable friend has described the blurring of offline and online | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
worlds, and we need to plot a path to make sure our children are much | :43:24. | :43:25. | |
more secure and protected. Like everybody, I would like to | :43:26. | :43:36. | |
thank the right honourable member for Basingstoke to bring in this | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
debate, it is important we should raise these issues. I'm shocked to | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
hear some of the examples given today. I am going to add to them, | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
I'm afraid. Online abuse isn't a technological problem, it is a | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
social problem that just happens to be powered by technology. I won't | :43:58. | :44:04. | |
deny that social media can be a force for good. For disseminating | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
information, the sharing jokes or for simply keeping in contact with | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
friends and relatives. And as MPs, as many honourable friends and | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
members have referred to, we own courage to be as accessible as | :44:17. | :44:23. | |
possible, to be out there with our websites -- we are in courage. | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
More and more, and as the mill MPs, our out there, makes as targets for | :44:31. | :44:43. | |
abuse, and we will have a story of vile comments posted to or about | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
them, and choose you from anonymous sources -- as a female MPs. By | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
allowing to rampage unchecked, social media becomes more aptly | :44:55. | :45:01. | |
titled and social media. We have the free argument, which too many | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
people, appears to be the divine right to say what ever is on your | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
mind without any regard to the consequences. With free-speech comes | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
the responsibility to deal with the consequences of one's words. My | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
issues with particular reference to Twitter and Facebook are the | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
apparent lack of a coherent policy on what action it constitutes online | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
abuse. I would like to give a few examples. Twitter policy states, and | :45:32. | :45:39. | |
I quote, we do not tolerate behaviour that crosses the line into | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
abuse, including behaviour that harasses, intimidates or users via | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
to silence another user's boys. So, with this in mind, when I received a | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
threat on Twitter in the referendum debate, saying, and I quote, we will | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
see what you say when an immigrant rapes you or one of your kids, I | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
reported it to Twitter, using their online pro forma. Surely this | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
racist, violent and targeted abuse crossed that line into behaviour | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
that harasses and intimidates, which twitter policy claims to be against. | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
But no, the response I received from Twitter was, it is not currently | :46:25. | :46:30. | |
violating the twitter rules. And with regard to Facebook, the killers | :46:31. | :46:38. | |
of Lee Rigby, Lee from Middleton, his killers posted explicitly on | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
Facebook what they were planning, get this was never picked up and | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
investigated. I reason you reported a vile and misogynistic comments | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
made about another female MP on Facebook saying, and they | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
selectively quote, she looks like a mutant and should be burnt at the | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
stake. And this comment with that foul language and provided | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
Cartwright nation of women as witches -- categorisation. We have | :47:11. | :47:17. | |
reviewed the comments and found it doesn't violate our keening 80 | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
standards. The reply went on to say, please let us know if you see | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
anything else that concerns you, we want to keep Facebook safe and | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
welcoming. If that is a Facebook's idea of a say safe and welcoming and | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
vibrant, I would like to see what they think is a no go area. Being | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
serious, and I am being totally serious, it will be the responsible | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
thing for Twitter and Facebook to use algorithms to pick out hate | :47:47. | :47:53. | |
speech, words such as Islamophobic, murder, rove, they could be picked | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
up and those accounts could be investigated. It is irresponsible of | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
social media platforms to allow company fleet unchecked and | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
unregulated discourse, and it would not happen in any walk of life. | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
Twitter and Facebook appear to reply solely upon users reporting abuse | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
and hate speech to them. Placing responsibility solely upon the user, | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
and even then, the pro forma reporting procedure is often too | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
simplistic to allow for the actual problem and concerned to be | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
accurately conveyed. And yes, the police can be notified, but we have | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
all seen the diminishment of police numbers, and I call upon the | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
government to make funding available for training and increasing police | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
numbers to deal with online abuse. And I'm interested in the suggestion | :48:53. | :48:59. | |
regarding asking social media platforms to actually provide a levy | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
to pay for increasing training and numbers to deal with this issue. And | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
I'd would just like to talk about the gender issue, I have | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
concentrated on abuse towards female politicians and I accept online | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
abuse takes many other forms and many other groups are targeted. But | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
online abuse does seem to be a gender issue, and abuse is directed | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
more towards female politicians than to our male counterparts. In the UK, | :49:29. | :49:35. | |
studies have shown 82% of this abuse recorded comes from male sources. | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
Social networks could take a strong and meaningful stance against | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
harassment is, simply by applying the same sort of standard that we | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
already apply in our public and professional lives. Wishing rape or | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
other violence upon women, or using to rocketry slurs, would be | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
unacceptable in most workplaces or communities. Those who engage in | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
such a patrol would be reprimanded or asked to leave, so why shouldn't | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
that be the response in our online lives? Letters never forget that | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
words carry weight and language has a consequence. Once it has been | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
said, it cannot be unsaid. Whether that be at face-to-face or typed | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
from behind a social media avatar, there is no hiding from meaning, and | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
we should confront now this ever spreading plague of misogyny, abuse | :50:32. | :50:39. | |
and threats online. I would like to begin to page should be to my right | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
honourable friend and the backbench business committee. She is a great | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
champion of causes like these, and the passion in all our speeches | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
shows how important it is. 21 years ago I sat with a wise and | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
far-sighted friends of mine, and we talk about a new phenomenon called | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
the Internet. At the time all I knew was what the scientists at | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
University talks about. He said we would live through a revolution as | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
great and rolling as that brought by the proliferation of newsprint in | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
the 17th century, and it would lead to a new way of communicating, | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
indeed a complete shift in social discourse. So, it has proven. I've | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
returned that conversation many times over the last two decades and | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
never more so than in preparing for this debate today. We as legislators | :51:36. | :51:41. | |
are on the whole print children, but we need to draft laws for our own | :51:42. | :51:49. | |
digital children. I would to quote from the recent dissenting judgment | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
in the case of PJS against News group newspapers, which, and I'm | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
sure people know, involved a celebrity couple trying to stop | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
publication of their identities in print form, even know their names | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
were quoted on the Internet. They said the court must live in the | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
world as it is, and not as it was likely to be. The court needs to be | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
cautious about granting an injunction preventing publication of | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
what is widely known. If it is not to lose public respect for the law | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
by giving the appearance of being out of touch with reality. I'm not | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
making comment on the right or wrong is of that particular case, but what | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
I want to say is, we as legislators must adapt to the new lives and the | :52:36. | :52:43. | |
threats which face all of us today. Online abuse is crime, it is not | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
banter, it is not teasing, and it is not the exercise of free speech. The | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
honourable lady spoke powerfully and indeed many honourable members, | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
females, although I'm glad to see men in the chamber now, have talked | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
about their own experiences and I pay tribute to them, as to the | :53:05. | :53:12. | |
victim 's statement we heard from. Online abuse in and of itself as a | :53:13. | :53:19. | |
crime, and the effect it has, anxiety, depression, changes in | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
everyday behaviour, resulting in people staying at home, not being | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
able to go to their jobs, sometimes linking to suicide. And crucially, | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
online abuse is a gateway to real-world stalking, physical and | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
sexual abuse and even murder. The digital trust has highlighted the | :53:40. | :53:48. | |
murders of Angela Hoyte and Lorna Smith, all of which began in the | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
virtual world. I'm sure like many members, every time we meet teachers | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
they report online abuse as one of the factors in mental health | :53:57. | :54:05. | |
problems in the young. In terms of crime prevention and reduction, | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
there needs to be changes always in the environment, so society's | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
attitudes, and these run in parallel or sometimes slightly behind changes | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
in law. Many members today have talked about cultural changes and | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
how there needs to be cultural changes. If we look back on social | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
changes over the last half a century, often we are the leaders in | :54:30. | :54:34. | |
this place and society follows us. I will happily give away. I want to | :54:35. | :54:43. | |
draw her attention, I put down a member 's bill in March to address | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
malicious Communications on social media and I wanted to say I would be | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
delighted to work with colleagues across a table to see if we can use | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
that as a vehicle for change in legislation. I applaud the | :54:56. | :55:05. | |
honourable lady's Private members Bill and I'm sure there will be | :55:06. | :55:13. | |
people supporting her. Talking about the way legislative changes go | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
instead, think about the strides which have been taken over the last | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
40 years, changing society's attitudes to sexual and physical | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
violence against women and children. I remember at law school, rape in | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
marriage was still allowed. Think about when we were at primary | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
school, our teachers could smack us, we had to legislate before society | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
could follow as for top it is incumbent on us to lead that charge. | :55:42. | :55:51. | |
Children... Schools take Susie their duties to children on bullying and | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
what happens in the playground, but the virtual playgrounds, our | :55:55. | :56:01. | |
children spend a lot of time there, so we need to make sure that as a | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
safe space as well. The Internet, as compared to the real world, is still | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
largely governed and some people argue it is an ungovernable space | :56:12. | :56:19. | |
where an online abuse's views go unchallenged, but they are | :56:20. | :56:22. | |
reinforced, amplified and Richard. I know I spoken to my Chief Constable | :56:23. | :56:29. | |
in Lincolnshire -- and unchallenged. I know the steps he takes, and yet | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
try as they might, they need more support. Victim support have said | :56:35. | :56:44. | |
only 7500 police officers have been specially trained to investigate | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
digital crime. I would ask the Minister if he would make reticent | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
Asians to Home Office ministers about plans to increase that. -- | :56:54. | :57:04. | |
discussions to Home Office. Perhaps we might call it a ragtag of laws | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
which deals with online abuse. I would wish the government to do a | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
review of the laws so we are not out of touch with reality and I would | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
wholeheartedly echo and agree with the suggestions on changes to law | :57:20. | :57:21. | |
this area. Our current law of libel had its | :57:22. | :57:32. | |
origins in the 17th century proof oration of newsprint. We need to | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
respond to the current revolution in communications and social discourse | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
by legislating for the world as it is not as we would it to be. Thank | :57:42. | :57:51. | |
you, and I'm grateful being escalated because this allows me | :57:52. | :58:03. | |
to... I would like to extend my thanks to the member for Basingstoke | :58:04. | :58:13. | |
for securing this debate. It strikes me that this chamber is dominated | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
today by a female presence and I think that confirms what we may not | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
be scientifically, but what we know instinctively is this issue is the | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
bid to kill a live for female MPs that conference them are far more | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
often than it should and much of it at heart is based on the sodden it. | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
We've heard from a number of speakers today and all understand I | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
think that online abuse is a serious and growing problem and | :58:43. | :58:44. | |
unfortunately, we live in a world where it is deemed acceptable for | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
some people, keyboard warriors that they will be called to hide behind | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
their computer or tablet and target abuse and aggression towards people | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
they simply do not like, simply because they can. The anonymity and | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
distance from which the abuse is hurled it was the sender of such | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
messages courage that they would not otherwise feel with the added bonus | :59:07. | :59:14. | |
that whatever they wish to say, however hurtful, aggressive, | :59:15. | :59:16. | |
threatening or nasty can be said with impunity. How cowardly. I fully | :59:17. | :59:25. | |
applaud and support the work of the reclaim the Internet campaign which | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
is a call for action to challenge abuse online, bringing together | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
groups from across civic society to a signal that enough. Such online | :59:33. | :59:39. | |
abuse is not acceptable and anyone responsible for it must be held | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
accountable. One of the most pernicious aspects of online abuse | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
is that it seeks to normalise bullying and intimidation of the | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
people. We wouldn't tolerate such abuse off-line, so it must not be | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
tolerated online. What kind of world are we building for our younger | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
people when the UK safer Internet centre published a study which found | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
that of those 13-18 -year-olds survey, 24% had been targeted | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
because of their gender, sexual orientation, race, religion or | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
disability and victim support has found that 41% of young people | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
report a persistent and targeted and bullying online from their peers. | :00:21. | :00:28. | |
Those who send such messages are in my view clearly intending to hurt or | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
frighten or distress the recipients. Do they think of the consequences, | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
the impact their views have on the recipient? Sadly, I believe they | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
simply don't care. And in the political sphere, too, where people | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
use the Internet threat of violence, though vile abuse or seek to silence | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
the voice of others through intimidation, this is simply an | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
acceptable and that is the message that must go out from this place. | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
Robust political debate is part of our public life and we must foster | :01:02. | :01:09. | |
and cherish it. But what we cannot tolerate is the lowering of | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
political debate to threats of violence or to in the sauce based on | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
the for Geneva, homophobia, sexism, race or disability. It was counter | :01:18. | :01:25. | |
the idea that is legitimate to abuse someone online simply because they | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
are in public life. That I believe in roads and cheapens democracy and | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
ultimately, legitimises abuse and abusive behaviour in wider society. | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
Regardless of political differences, debate must be conducted with the | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
respect and I fear over the last couple of years, too many people | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
seem to forget this. Abuse online can be just as destructive, | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
distressing, upsetting and disempowering as a physical abuse. | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
As far as I can see, the perpetrator of such abuse is seeking to shut up, | :02:00. | :02:07. | |
close down or silence the voice of the person they choose to abuse. The | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
are working hard to adapt practices to cope with the new world we live | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
in where the Internet has added a new damage to criminal acts, and | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
make no mistake, criminal acts are what we are talking about here and | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
there are currently at least 30 different pieces of legislation | :02:27. | :02:28. | |
covering online abuse in various ways. This legislation must be fully | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
utilised and victim support is calling for a review to identify any | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
possible gaps in existing legislation and that's a very | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
important points, since it is estimated that within around five | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
years, 70% of all crime will be cyber enabled and the Criminal | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
Justice System must be in a position to flexibly and adequately respond | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
to this and support to victims were required and I would like to hear | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
the minister's thoughts on this. The everyday, casual online abuse to | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
many people see must not be seen as harmless or something which should | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
be dismissed and deleted. It must be sought out and challenged. And like | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
so many of my colleagues in this place and like to many ordinary, | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
hard-working people who we represent, we have to face this | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
casual abuse and like so many others, I have until recently when | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
this has occurred, simply press the delete or block whenever I have been | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
in receipt of such nastiness and abuse. But now, I report it to the | :03:32. | :03:38. | |
police and I have cause indeed to do so recently in the light of the | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
appalling and dreadful murder of the late member for Batley and spend. No | :03:42. | :03:48. | |
one should have to tolerate abuse, no matter what line of work they do, | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
no matter what justification the centre of the abuse may feel that | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
they have. It is not on. It seems the most common victim of such abuse | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
are women and children, but we know the problem is widespread and affect | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
others outside these groups. If we are to seek to have any credibility | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
in this place, we all and affect others outside these groups. If we | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
are to seek to have any credibility in this place, we all need to send a | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
clear message and use our position as MPs and indeed as leaders of | :04:17. | :04:18. | |
political parties to unequivocally condemn a this behaviour as the | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
First Minister of Scotland has the from wherever it comes. And I used | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
to think as I'm sure many people here used to think, that the | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
deleting such messages was enough. I no longer think that. We as MPs have | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
a duty to ensure it is challenged and by doing so, deterring those who | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
would engage in such activity. And I sincerely hope that this debate will | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
send a clear message to those who feel that they can abuse any person | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
that they choose to typing nastier and abusive comments on their | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
keyboard, that there is no hiding place. This behaviour is cowardly | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
and reprehensible, and we must encourage and support all such | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
victims of abuse report it to the police. We as MPs must ensure we do | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
the same. It really is time to reclaim the social media from those | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
who use it as a vehicle to work out their own personal frustrations and | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
tendencies to bully as they would see fit with impunity. Enough is | :05:21. | :05:30. | |
enough. . I made -- met a fair share of the bullies in my time, but as | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
you may have noticed, as they used to say my home town of Liverpool, I | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
am built like a chap who is built like a brick outhouse, which is the | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
Parliamentary version, so they've not bothered me much over the years. | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
I'm aware, not least as a father, that the Internet and social media | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
has brought about to big changes that have meant I probably would | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
have not avoided were I a teenager now. First of all, it is 24-7, it is | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
inescapable, there is no refuge from a bullying these days, no chance to | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
get up, shut the door, sit down to your fish fingers safe in the | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
knowledge it won't occur again the lease for a few hours. But also | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
because social media has unfortunately decreased the | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
resilience of our children, creating a host of exploitable | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
vulnerabilities from eating disorders to self harming and | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
harmful sexual behaviour and depression and anxiety. For | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
teenagers, many of who are hard-wired to take the judgments of | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
others more too hot, the amplification of bullying that the | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
online world allows is going to lead to more permanent damage. As many | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
members have already said, it is pretty shocking that we have allowed | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
it to get to this stage. We seem to have sleepwalked into an epidemic of | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
terrible mental health among children in particular whose | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
self-confidence has been wrecked by social media with its unrealistic | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
expectations and the kind of digital solipsism that it seems to | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
encourage. Perhaps it is because we have been too wrapped up in our own | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
smartphones to notice their obsession. To wrapped up to remember | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
that in society there are to distinct types of people. Adults and | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
children. And it is the jobs of adults to make decisions about the | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
jobs -- boundaries that protect children from harm even when they do | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
not like it. Instead, I fear we have been carried away by technology | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
which has led us to become too indulgent to be seen to be | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
backtracking. The current generation of teenagers are glued, perhaps | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
irreversibly, to a social media world for the image of the | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
continuously perfect, happy people, who are so obviously fictional, but | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
nevertheless paired with the same unavoidable realisation that | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
teenagers can never attain the ideal. The result is both an | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
insatiable sense of entitlement combine with a crushing hopelessness | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
which can only lead to self loathing and anger. They are made to feel all | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
too often like failures. Flow into this makes the pressure of exams and | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
the signal sent to them that their entire future and value rests, | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
academic performance or their social standing at school and there is no | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
wonder that cyber bullying is the cheaper for a whole host of | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
problems. These pressures contributed deep unhappiness and | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
many feel the need to put on a brave face and not burden families which | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
only further compounds the isolation. As the president of | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
ChildLine wrote recently, unhappiness and low self-esteem are | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
the main youth phenomena they are seeing. It only appeared in the top | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
five of children and their worries a few years ago, but for last year | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
alone accounted for 35,200 over counselling sessions. Make no | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
mistake, so far, we have done little to halt this trend and it's only | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
going to get worse. We must not consign the next generation of | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
teenagers do the same fate. -- to the same fate. In regard to this | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
debate, the resilience sapping of social media and addiction to | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
smartphones is far more fundamental and intractable than the cyber | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
bullying issue which is a product of it. There is of course much to be | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
said about how we can tackle cyber bullying and many honourable members | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
have mentioned that today. Many people need to be involved in that | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
conversation and consultation will have to include megacorporations | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
such as Facebook that the common platforms where this problem occurs. | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
I do think the way in which we have led the resilience issue get out of | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
control is the result of complacency in Parliament and inertia in the law | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
that we need to address more urgently than the bullying issue. | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
Like many members, the response to this bullying issue would, I hope, | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
take the shape of a new online offences act which would replace the | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
30 plus pieces of legislation covering online abuse at the moment. | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
I would hope that amongst other things it would include the specific | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
online abuse offenders, as well as an extensive definition of duties | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
that Internet service providers have two our young people as well. But | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
more on this resilience issue, we also need to get on with a children | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
and Young Persons act fit for the age in which we can clearly define | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
the duties of parents in law to help them cope with the impact of social | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
media on their children. It is plainly not right that those under | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
16 spend an average of the hours online a day making them, according | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
to experts, much more likely to suffer mental health problems. --. | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
All that was 12-15 -year-olds have their own smartphones and that | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
there's done what they are doing on them. Spending too much time on | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
social media has been shown to inhibit personal development | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
according to research and we need to be less complacent about this. This | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
has been allowed to happen partly due to parliament complacency, but | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
also because of parental naivete and short-sightedness here. We need to | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
put this right. No one is especially to blame, but this House has failed | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
problems consider this issue and it is the same reason parents across | :11:13. | :11:14. | |
the country and around the world get caught out so badly by change. | :11:15. | :11:29. | |
The pace of change also explains how the main pieces of legislation on | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
children so out of date. The 1933 children and Young Persons act and | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
the 1989 children's act concept of the framework upon which we still | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
operate today. They cannot have anything to say about parents duties | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
to children in the social media age or about cyber bullying. Making it | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
harder still, it appears getting the guidance and supervision right | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
requires a level of intrusion that wasn't commonplace amongst parents | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
of previous generations. Which children today will certainly resent | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
and resist. Understandably given where we are now, any group of | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
teenagers would react with horror to the idea of handing their | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
smartphones in at the beginning of the school day and picking them up | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
at home time. The idea... By all means. He said teenagers might | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
resisted but he did begin by saying there are two people, two groups of | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
people in this world, adults and children, surely it is incumbent on | :12:33. | :12:41. | |
us to make them give them up. Exactly that, as I was about to say. | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
But I will be firm here and say the reason we haven't done something in | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
a systematic way, when children and to extras have been telling us for | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
some time there was trouble brewing, down to weakness that teaches act | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
that children should set the rules. Once again, adults are soon to be | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
unwilling to act as adults, meaning action has been weak or tentative. | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
However, given the gravity, we cannot afford for this to continue. | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
We need a new direction for which to approach this important area, that | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
is right to do with the causes as well as the fallout. I fear this is | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
again down to an indulgence that leads people to the conclusion we | :13:29. | :13:39. | |
can't declare what something is done is not good for them. Increased | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
funding for talking therapies that everybody has been pushing for is | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
right, but no amount of therapy will stand the child of children mental | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
health crisis if the root cause of this resilience is not addressed. I | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
agree with many honourable members about the need for legislation. To | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
clarify and consolidate the law around what offences are committed | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
online, but I think more fundamentally we need to look more | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
seriously at the resilience of children, the availability and time | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
they spend online and decide for ourselves as parents, as a country | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
whether we should set them about these of what they can do. I find | :14:23. | :14:30. | |
the right honourable member for Basingstoke for bringing forward | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
this debate through the backbench business committee today. We've had | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
some very powerful and personal accounts today across the chamber | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
and it goes right saying that online abuse is a very severe and expanding | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
issue. It is one the Scottish National Party at the condoms, and | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
my party supports any measures that may ensure that to party condemns. | :14:55. | :15:07. | |
The consensus is a port and to address and tackle it. The scale of | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
online abuse is truly shocking. There is much evidence to suggest it | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
has become incredibly widespread. The chief executive of the College | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
policing, Alex Marshall, has stated there is anecdotal evidence to | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
suggest complaints relating to social media now make at least half | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
of all calls to police. There has been widespread coverage of online | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
abuse, particulate in the tabloid press, although some may contend | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
this is a potential to add to the problem than address it. Sometimes | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
the headlines in tabloids can do track from the severity of the | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
reality of online abuse. Think tank Demos have conducted research which | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
suggests around 12,000 threatening tweets containing the word rape were | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
sent from UK accounts in one year. This is just one example of the | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
plethora of misogynistic and abusive tweets sent to women online. The | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
recent controversy showed horrific abuse of women online in the video | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
game industry. What was truly shocking was the mentality and | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
coordinated campaigns of abuse targeting individuals. It garnered | :16:23. | :16:30. | |
much media attention stateside and measures to tackle online harassment | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
are being taken more seriously by Congress as a result. This abuse is | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
often vicious and nasty. Whilst most of us will have the strength of | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
character to deal with it, it doesn't make it any more acceptable. | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
We also have a duty of care to our young people, many of whom will not | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
be well placed to deal with this abuse and cyber bullying. I commend | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
the Department education's efforts in this area, in particular the | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
advice they issue did the macro to deal with cyber bullying. The lack | :17:05. | :17:14. | |
of organisations have helped as a bindable resource, and the online | :17:15. | :17:23. | |
advice. I would like to dig the opportunity to commenced the | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
campaign in Scotland, which has garnered the support of all of the | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
main political parties and high profile figures across Scotland. | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
Equality training is an important measure in our schools. Teachers | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
need to be trained on LGBT issues and that includes recognising the | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
signs of bullying and cyber bullying so they may act to put a stop to | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
individual cases. The repercussions of cyber bullying are serious. Young | :17:54. | :18:01. | |
and impressionable people can suffer very serious losses in confidence. | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
More seriously, it can lead to depression, self harm and | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
tragically, as we said earlier, has led to young people taken their | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
lives. I welcome any effort whatsoever that would strengthen | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
legislation in this place, or in the devolved institutions to help tackle | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
this abuse. I would also like to reiterate today to anyone listening | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
into this debate who is a victim of online abuse or bullying, you are | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
not alone, speak to someone you trust and do not hesitate to contact | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
the police to report it. We have a duty here to work together, to | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
tackle cyber abuse and bullying proactively, and is hyper for | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
individuals, we have experienced some form ourselves and could no | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
doubt empathise with all victims of this kind of abuse. We are their | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
voices and we much use them to effect real change -- we must use | :19:02. | :19:10. | |
them. Can I begin by thanking the honourable members for Basingstoke | :19:11. | :19:19. | |
and South Pembrokeshire? Can I start by saying how much I value social | :19:20. | :19:27. | |
media? It allows me to engage with constituents, promoting the work I | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
do. Social media mix it easier for them to contact me and for me to | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
hear from them about the issues important to them. The general | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
public value their use of social media, it has become a staple part | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
of their daily lives. My wife would say party stapled. Facebook and | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
Twitter allow people to keep in touch with one another, regardless | :19:51. | :19:58. | |
of where they are in the world. In the UK, Facebook has 32 million | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
users and Twitter has 60 million. The vast majority of people who use | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
it do it in a respectable and proper manner. They engage in a friendly | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
manner, and the overwhelming majority who talk to me online, even | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
those who disagree, do so with respect or serving close to it. | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
However, like a lot of things, there are a few who is close to it. There | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
is a small minority who engage in abusive behaviour. | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, like every other party, we condemn abusive measures. | :20:38. | :20:47. | |
The First Minister has addressed this issue and is one of the best | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
users of Twitter to engage with people. She has said robust | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
political debate forms an important part of democracy, but it must take | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
place in a polite manner. This is a message we can all agree on. I don't | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
accept that you public servants are fair game, and such abuse is part | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
and parcel of being a politician. Any abuse, no matter who is on the | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
receiving end, it should be condemned. Like many, I have had | :21:17. | :21:24. | |
some abuse, but the cowards that go online are usually men and reserve | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
some of the worst abuse for the nonmembers. These are not real men, | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
they are small and pathetic, and their actions can have serious and | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
tragic repercussions. Of course, politicians are not the only target, | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
it appears no one can escape from the poison. I spoke and mentioned a | :21:45. | :21:52. | |
lot of carers were tweeting about it. This online campaign was | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
informative and provided an insight into the issues carers face. | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
However, it is shameful carers could not escape the abuse from the | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
trolls. We need to get to the bottom of why so many people think it is OK | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
to send abusive members cut messages. In 2014, 1002 people were | :22:11. | :22:19. | |
convicted for online trolling. Of those convicted, only 155 were | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
jailed for sending messages which was grossly offensive or was | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
indecent. The truth of the matter is, there are four more people | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
engaging in abusive activity than those convicted. It is unclear what | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
the scale our problem is. 10,000 tweets were sent from UK accounts | :22:44. | :22:51. | |
which attacked the ball. As a father of two young children, I'm concerned | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
about the incident of children being bullied online. Cyber bullying has | :22:57. | :23:03. | |
extended vicious behaviour beyond the classroom. There are no official | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
statistics one children bullied, but from research, we know bullying is | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
an issue which affects all children in some way. One of the loggers | :23:13. | :23:19. | |
organisations for young people suggests 33% of children have been | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
bullied on line. This abusive behaviour occurs on more than one | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
occasion. Equal worrying is 90% of teenagers who witnessed it, say they | :23:29. | :23:36. | |
have ignored it. People of different minority groups are far more likely | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
to get cyber bullying. We had to consider why people are on the | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
receiving end. We would not accept a witness abuse in person in the | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
street or the classroom. As such, we must send a message that cyber | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
bullying in any form cannot be tolerated and should be reported. As | :23:57. | :24:05. | |
I touched on earlier on, the eyes of Internet has made it easier for | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
women to be attacked. The revenge upon the helpline has received 4000 | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
calls from people receiving sexual abuse. Reported cases have risen | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
remarkably, with victims ranging from 11 to pensioners. Two thirds of | :24:23. | :24:29. | |
the incident involving women, were suspects former partners. There were | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
eight female complainant is every mail. Statistics sound all to | :24:33. | :24:39. | |
similar to the incident of domestic violence. And this is a difficult | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
problem to solve, but there is work being done to reduce cyber bullying. | :24:44. | :24:52. | |
The SNP have funded Respect Me, and antibody and service which held | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
young people in Scotland. -- anti-bullying. They have highlighted | :24:59. | :25:06. | |
bullying is bullying whether it takes place on the street or online. | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
In conclusion, we need to develop effective policies to tackle the | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
problems online. One of the central messages we should send out from | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
this is anyone who has been a victim of online abuse should not hesitate | :25:22. | :25:24. | |
to report this to the police, and I would agree with the honourable | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
member when she said companies like Facebook could and should do much | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
more to investigate or block abusive posts. No one should have to go home | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
from work or school and experience bullying online. As well as offering | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
support, we have to take series action on the perpetrators of this | :25:47. | :25:48. | |
poisonous and ultimately how the behaviour. | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
My apologies for stepping out but I had a school visit. I would like to | :25:56. | :26:03. | |
find the honourable members for Basingstoke and fissile | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
Pembrokeshire for bringing this very important debate -- South | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
Pembrokeshire. I would like to thank the contributions of those who are | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
spoken before me that I have been here to listen to. Technology is a | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
central part, it is a tool but sadly used maliciously, technology can be | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
turned into a weapon which can and has had damaging consequences on its | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
victims. Members in this House have been victims, and some have been | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
sufficiently frightened by the abuse they have received online, such as | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
they've been afraid to go home at the weekend. Most of victims don't | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
have the benefit of the police and Parliament to support that we have | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
here. And like all bullying, but these tend to target people who | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
already feel runnable. Members have acknowledged the gaps and needs her | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
actions, neither legislation, work with police and prosecutors and most | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
importantly for awareness. And I want to focus my conjuration to | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
online abuse and harassment in schools and the importance of | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
effective consistent school management and curriculum policy to, | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
lamented the effective legislation we also need. | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
In an with one of the movers of the Motion that today, the member for | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
Basingstoke, I am honoured to be a member of the women's Select | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
Committee and we have been addressing the issue of sexual | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
harassment and violence in schools. Our report is not quite ready, but I | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
am sure my Chair will not mind if I give a flavour of all we have | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
experienced. We were shocked to the extent of which sexual imagery, | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
abusive sexual relationships and object of the nation of women has | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
been normalised by young people. -- objective equation. We had two | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
sessions, one with younger men and one with young women and they told | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
us their experience of the use and misuse of technology in and around | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
the school environment. My feeling is if we don't understand and are | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
just that misogyny and homophobia and the racism and all other kinds | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
of abuse, if we don't understand it and its technical use, we risk | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
turning victims into criminals and do not give the fixing of the | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
support they so badly need. I want to focus my remarks on the | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
experience brought to me by a one of my constituency was a at a | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
successful and thriving secondary school. It follows the revelations | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
from a recent safeguarding investigation held there which | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
introduced him to the shocking mobile and cyber world that | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
virtually every in his school and he presumes other local schools and | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
probably therefore nationally, that every child seems to be engaged with | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
for unfeasibly large portions of the days and nights. What happened in a | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
school started with the change of voters between two students who were | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
in a consensual sexual relationship but it escalated and the images got | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
out and there was blackmail and violence. The police got involved. | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
Criminal charges were possible and so on. So what started consensually | :29:30. | :29:37. | |
ended up being truly violent abuse. This could be prevented. It is this | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
aspect I want to address. The situation raised some really | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
important aspects of child online and mobile safety and the equalities | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
agenda that can be ignored. What are the headteacher is seeking is a body | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
of work with these key areas with cross party and organisational | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
support that can help schools and parents in particular to safeguard | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
children are much more effectively. It is right to focus on | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
strengthening the law, but we need to look at a parallel solution | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
alongside it if we are not above thousands of children at risk of | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
criminal charges when education and child protection are more in order | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
in those instances. Tackling offenders and strengthening the law | :30:23. | :30:25. | |
while important are only a small part of what needs to be done and it | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
is not on its own a real solution. Elements of the law may need to be | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
carefully considered after a final analysis of the context of this | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
online abuse, where it starts, before being applied to young | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
people, if they're not to be needlessly and unfairly criminalise, | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
such as in the situation I've described. We must focus too much | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
reaction, but look at prevention. The law is not always the correct to | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
will and must only be used in -- must not be used by people engaging | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
in unwise activities, as many do, which relate to the expectation and | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
culture Java mobile and cyber environment in which appropriate | :31:07. | :31:08. | |
adults have virtually no presence and are too often -- where to often, | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
we leave young people abandon to fend and for themselves. The there | :31:15. | :31:30. | |
will be a vacuum -- there will never be a vacuum, but a street culture | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
will follow that void. At last comic he fears and see if this is the case | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
in the mobile and cyber world is our children spent so much of their and | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
night inhabiting. We must take care we do not target and criminalising | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
young people who are in fact, victims. This will require | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
significant training and support for the police and others whose response | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
to such crime appears already to be under confident and very variable. | :31:58. | :32:04. | |
My constituents have described historical justice approaches in his | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
school and this may be appropriate in cases were mitigating factors are | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
considered. The vast majority of our young people are already mobile and | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
online online fixings in the largely unsupervised cyber world. Whilst the | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
Internet gets considerable attention, mobile activity and | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
mobile -based abuse is more rife and more neglected by adults. Parents | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
were teachers and other adults who are normally responsible for the | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
routine safely off children are best placed to supervise and guide young | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
people, yet they are largely absent on the potentially dangerous | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
environments and too little is being done to address this vacuum, this | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
omission. There is an overlooked -- over-focus on the Internet and | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
applications like Facebook because they are what all the people like us | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
use and we are familiar with. The mobile world and the dark web get | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
less attention. Yet, these are part of the experience of most children, | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
maybe the dark web to a lesser degree. But there are lots of apps, | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
and there are others we have probably never heard of but unless | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
we get our kids to tell us and that doesn't always happen. The mobile | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
and online culture in which our children live and grow up and the | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
ground is established in primary years for some and in early | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
secondary for others, that is their normality. This normalisation, with | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
no appropriate adult presence to challenge it is what these to the | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
lack of reporting of sexual and other mobile online and cyber abuse. | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
Young people don't want to go to court ordered on the perpetrators to | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
be punished. That's an issue we have to deal with anyway. The added that | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
abuse is not worth reporting is not necessarily an indictment of the | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
committal justice system, but is may not be considered worth reporting | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
when it is seen as normalised. Data from police forces and court | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
proceedings is a subset of the true or possible datasets. The reality is | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
the relative lack of adult presence in the mobile and cyber worlds of | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
children, including the practitioners responsible for | :34:11. | :34:12. | |
keeping children safe, means conclusions drawn on available | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
quantitative data must be received cautiously. We need to publish a | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
different online culture and skill up children and parents and adults. | :34:23. | :34:30. | |
There needs to be consistent training for police, Children's | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
Services, health and education staff on Child exploitation and how to | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
support victims. In short, parents do not know how to be part of the | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
mobile and cyber world and in schools, they have a responsibility | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
in this debate and in the remedies. Some suggestions that, from the work | :34:49. | :34:56. | |
that some schools have done, including having equalities and | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
safeguard committees, updating behaviour policies with a strong | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
safeguarding structure, training her parents, staff and students. | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
Students should be engaged in this work and policy development and | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
roll-out on an equal ratio with adults. Up-to-date security within | :35:12. | :35:20. | |
the school, ensuring staff, students and parents are clear on the law and | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
their rights, and assuring an encouraging a transparent culture so | :35:25. | :35:27. | |
that's where children are welcome at parents and school staff | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
interrogating their devices as a matter of course. That is a | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
challenge for a parents, but we need to think about it, but in the | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
context of overall policy. Telephone clear consistent procedures | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
regarding social media and sexual exploitation and mobile and online | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
incidents including the protection of stuff we investigate such | :35:51. | :35:53. | |
incidents, but also taking into account privacy. Also working with | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
relevant organisations such as the police. Also using pupil at | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
challenge is to keep the school of today with developments in social | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
media and portable apps and help inform safety curriculum | :36:08. | :36:15. | |
developments. Referring to what she said about the difficulty with | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
teenagers. Would she agree that we should perhaps look at a House at | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
whether there ought to be a duty on parents to be aware of what their | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
children are doing online, a legal duty, in the same way we have legal | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
duty to make sure our children aren't exposed to other kinds of | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
dangers? I think he raises an interesting point and as a parent of | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
to young adults, I've always wondered why there are all sorts of | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
people required to do all sorts of things in respect of children in | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
their care, but there doesn't seem to be a legal duty you sign when you | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
pop out a baby. Interesting one. I'm sure there is -- are people form | :36:56. | :37:03. | |
legally qualified than me who can respond in detail to his relevant | :37:04. | :37:12. | |
and question. Thank you and I have concluded my core points, but I will | :37:13. | :37:21. | |
finish by saying what we need to address about online abuse is a | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
whole raft and a mixture of issues that include enforcement and | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
criminal charges, policing and also public and education policy and | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
solutions in order to not criminalise victims. Thank you. I | :37:34. | :37:45. | |
won't go on too long and I lose the quality of the debate I permit a | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
short speech. I'm sure the other honourable members will appreciate | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
that. In my maiden speech, I said I'd be an advocate in this place for | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
the Internet and online sector of the British economy, because it | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
creates lots of jobs. That doesn't mean I'm an apologist for that | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
sector or will excuse other negative consequences that have occurred. | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
There is an awesome responsibility of all state holders in the Internet | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
economy and legislators and other players to make sure we create a | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
safe environment for our children in particular. The Internet is created | :38:21. | :38:23. | |
an environment in which adults behave like children and children | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
are behaving like adults in a way that we've never really understood | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
before. It's been commented on by many members about the great work | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
being undertaken in the schools and the education of children about | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
online bullying programmes. I've seen that in action in schools in my | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
constituency and I applaud the great work of teachers in this place. It's | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
also been mentioned that the prevalence for children these days | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
to have mobile phones which often the parents find it difficult to | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
block or unlock all be able to work out how they can make sure those | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
phones are secure in a way they perhaps have the confidence of doom | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
with computers. Is the case that the average Brit looks at their phone at | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
100 times a day. More people would be willing to give up chocolate, | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
showers or indeed sex rather than their mobile phones. I'll leave you | :39:12. | :39:24. | |
with this anecdote. Today has been the first time in my entire time in | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
the Parliament where I haven't looked at my mobile phone to see | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
abuse on Twitter, Facebook or an e-mail. That is because 14 hours ago | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
I lost my mobile phone. It's been one of the most relaxing ram | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
productive days of my time in Parliament and I highly recommend | :39:43. | :39:43. | |
it. Thank you for outline of the | :39:44. | :40:04. | |
homophobic and racist abuse and horrors of child abuse we so often | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
see on the Internet. The member for... Described how abuse can take | :40:12. | :40:20. | |
place. Another member issued a stark warning that children were losing | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
their ability to empathise, which I think all of us found striking and | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
interesting. I was particularly happy to hear her description of her | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
own doorstep visits to trawls and for a moment, I almost all sorry for | :40:36. | :40:42. | |
the pathetic creatures imagining the turning of a remonstrating with | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
them. -- trolls. There's been a whole variety of speeches from | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
members describing their personal experiences. I was struck by one | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
member who described a fixed in's terrifying online experience, but | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
particularly moving was another member who talked of her own | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
experiences being at the receiving end of abuse from online cowards. | :41:07. | :41:15. | |
Today, we are all connected. We use the Internet to conduct business and | :41:16. | :41:17. | |
entertainment and connect with our friends through social media. All | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
mobile phones in our pockets ensure that we are available any time, | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
anywhere and we can instantly share photos and videos with family, | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
friends and complete strangers. For the vast majority of people, this | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
collectivity has enhanced our lives. However, as a historian wrote, | :41:38. | :41:45. | |
technology is neither good, nor is it bad. Nor is it neutral. As we | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
have heard, online abuse is one of the negative consequences resulting | :41:52. | :41:52. | |
from advances in online technology. Social media can be a platform for | :41:53. | :42:03. | |
sharing content intended to him and it's on to as large an audience as | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
possible. While an iPhone can keep in touch with friends, it can be an | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
instrument in which an individual is harassed and intimidated. Whilst | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
Twitter can provide an opportunity for banter, as members of this House | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
no, it can be used by cowardly bullies hiding behind anonymity to | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
send abuse. As this debate has shown, all political parties have | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
sent out strong and clear messages that this type of behaviour must be | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
strenuously tackled and we must consider every possible method of | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
dealing with it, including strengthening existing legislation. | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, children and young people are the first to | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
embrace and adapt to changes in technology. This also means that | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
they are more likely to be the victims of online abuse. Much of | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
this abuse can come from their own peers. The abuse has been | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
exacerbated by the use of social media, and the widespread | :43:09. | :43:10. | |
availability of smartphones with cameras. In late 2004, happy | :43:11. | :43:18. | |
slapping began as a youth craze throughout the UK, and maybe you | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
have forgotten, it was covered wildly in the tabloids. It involves | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
filming acts of violence, such as slapping, then circulating the | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
videos I Bluetooth. This escalated to more serious assaults, two sexual | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
assaults and in some instances to manslaughter. Social media sites | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
such as Facebook and Twitter have provided further platforms for car | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
words. The intention is to humiliate and intimidate them, to make them | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
feel worthless and share their misery with the world, increasing | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
the feeling the whole world is against them. Rightly these types of | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
videos are condemned, removed sometimes bite site administrators | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
and sometimes, but not often not, investigated by the police. Other | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
types of abuse are more subtle and difficult to act against. An | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
embarrassing pictures or videos, altered photos or videos taken | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
without permission can be widely shared. Behaviour can manifest | :44:24. | :44:31. | |
itself easier online, victims can be ridiculed and singled out, rumours | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
can be spread quickly and widely and people can be excluded. The ability | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
to go online does not create a bullying, but away from the | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
classroom and playground, it helps it to go unnoticed. Those who are | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
most targeted by conventional bullying are also targeted online | :44:51. | :44:57. | |
abuse. In 2016, the UK say the Internet centre published a study | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
which found that of those 13 to 18-year-olds serve eight, had been | :45:04. | :45:06. | |
targeted because of their gender, their sexuality, their race, | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
religion, disability or the fact that they were transgender. The | :45:13. | :45:19. | |
honourable gentleman is making a powerful contribution. One of the | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
critical aspects, one of the key aspects of this abuse he is | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
illustrating is the ability of the people on the Internet to be | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
anonymous. Does he think it is time for the House to come to a view | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
about Internet anonymity and Wevill we should allow it to persist in | :45:39. | :45:47. | |
this country? At it is an interesting issue. Do we have an | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
entitlement to anonymity? Perhaps we should preserve it. I would think | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
about it, I'm not sure. I was interested in my country should not | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
one of the members on the side made, suggesting perhaps what Facebook and | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
tradition be doing is using technology to identify certain trawl | :46:07. | :46:15. | |
words, for example, and for that to result automatically in the | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
suspension of the accounts concerned. These amongst other | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
issues, perhaps a minister will go away and look at and perhaps address | :46:23. | :46:31. | |
in his speech later on. One in 25 of young people who have spoken about | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
this in a variety of different surveys said they were singled out | :46:37. | :46:43. | |
for abuse all or most of the time. That is a horrendous thing for young | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
people do have to deal with. And teenagers with disabilities and | :46:47. | :46:53. | |
those from African, Middle Eastern and other minority groups were much | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
more likely to encounter cyber bullying. To target this north of | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
the border, the Scottish Government has funded Respect Me, which acts a | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
source of information that young people. They've made available | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
publications to raise awareness of the issue of cyber bullying, and the | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
service works well with adults involved in the lives of children to | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
give them practical skills and confidence to deal with children who | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
are bullied and those who bully others. They are keen to stress that | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
no matter where billing takes place, it needs to be addressed and | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
challenged. This is a message worth repeating. Anyone suffering from | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
bullying, whether online or not, must report it and stand up to | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
bullying. Online, children and young people are also in further danger | :47:46. | :47:51. | |
from sexual abuse. A recent study by Unicef published introducing team | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
suggested eight out of 1018 -year-old worldwide believe they or | :47:57. | :47:59. | |
their families, friends are in danger of being sexually abused as a | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
result of online activity. The ability that people have online to | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
remain anonymous or take on another identity is eight contributed | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
factor. It leads to an increased likelihood of receiving unwanted | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
sexual comments, unsolicited material or pressure to participate | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
in sexual activity. This is also a problem, as we've heard today, | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
experience by adult women with applications such as Napster and | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
tinder to providing an easy way for men to harass them -- Insta ground. | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
Revenge has the intention of causing harm. | :48:39. | :48:50. | |
The helpline has received almost 4000 calls in the last year alone, | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
with cases reported from children as young as 11 years old. Furthermore, | :48:56. | :49:01. | |
tends to stigmatise women are common. The thing There were | :49:02. | :49:13. | |
thousands of troops attacking individuals as a shut or horse. | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
Women in for the Clyde are prime targets for abuse. In Scotland, the | :49:19. | :49:27. | |
three biggest parties led by women, one gay, and they all have to deal | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
with sexual tweets. The Scottish Conservative Party leader Ruth | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
Davidson has suffered horrendous homophobic abuse and has handled it | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
with humour, honesty and courage. I am grateful again. One of the | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
relations coming out of the awful murder of Jo Cox was the amount of | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
abuse directed at members of Parliament, but the milk members -- | :49:54. | :50:02. | |
but female members. Does he think it would be appropriate for the | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
Parliamentary authorities to publish an annual report on the levels and | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
content of the types of abuse people are receiving? Most right-thinking | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
members don't know, and it comes as is a price to learn a member has | :50:16. | :50:22. | |
received this material. I think that is an excellent idea, and I think | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
one of the great things about this debate is the fact people are being | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
able to share their experiences and I suspect many members are quite | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
surprised to discover, especially perhaps some of the men are quite | :50:36. | :50:38. | |
surprised to discover just exactly how wait to read this is and so I | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
think it would be an excellent thing for the House today -- widespread. | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
The online world has enhanced our democracy by a long people to | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
interact with politicians in a way they could not before. Robust | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
political debate is part of our public life and we must cherish it, | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
even when it takes place in terms or in language we might not personally | :51:00. | :51:06. | |
use. What cannot be tolerated is debasing critical debate with | :51:07. | :51:08. | |
threats of violence, insults and abuse based on misogyny, homophobia | :51:09. | :51:16. | |
and racism. Opposition to online abuse is something which unites all | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
of our political parties. It is not just politicians that suffer such | :51:22. | :51:27. | |
online abuse when the famous. High profile TV personalities, | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
journalists, academics and actors are all subject to abuse whether it | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
is petty and crude or freshening ambitions. Online, many people seem | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
to lose a sense of themselves and who they are, and would say things | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
they would never dream of saying in person. I make a point quite often | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
of writing to people and saying, can you imagine coming up to me and | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
saying that to me in real life? And of course you wouldn't, so why on | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
earth do you feel free to say it simply because it is online? | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
However, hiding behind a pseudonym and Khartoum profile picture does | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
not make the abuse any less real -- cartoon. We have a duty of care and | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
it is vital we send out a strong message that online abuse is wrong | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
always, and one clear message, I think, in conclusion is that | :52:21. | :52:29. | |
Facebook and Twitter are hopelessly inadequate when it comes to the | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
responses to online and sometimes a very violent bullying. It seems that | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
the House across both sides and all parties once the Minister to tackle | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
Facebook and Twitter on our behalf and much more importantly on behalf | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
of all of our constituents, another forward to hearing what he has to | :52:53. | :52:54. | |
say on the matter. I would like to thank the backbench | :52:55. | :53:04. | |
business committee for granting what is a really important debates and to | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
congratulate the honourable members for Basingstoke and the | :53:10. | :53:20. | |
contributions in this debate have been characterised by reasonable, | :53:21. | :53:29. | |
well-informed arguments, which I think reflects a consensus around | :53:30. | :53:37. | |
the House. And also a desire for a constructive improvements and a | :53:38. | :53:44. | |
situation that many of our own constituents and ourselves as | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
members of Parliament face. I may have mentioned this in the past, but | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
before entering this House, I spent many years as an engineer, building | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
out the networks which eventually formed the Internet. I did that | :53:59. | :54:06. | |
because I see technology as enabling, as the Member for | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
Sheffield Brightside also emphasised, technology is building | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
bridges in connecting people, rather than bullying and snooping on | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
people. I lot of time in this House and outside are talking about the | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
positive benefits that technology and particularly the Internet can | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
bring if harnessed properly. For most of us, the Internet is a window | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
on the world, a place to learn about what is happening, to keep in touch | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
with friends or make new ones, to buy, to find a new job, to study, to | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
play games. But the increasing presence of online abuse means all | :54:47. | :54:53. | |
too often the Internet is a place where people do not feel safe. As my | :54:54. | :55:00. | |
honourable friend, the Member for Brentwood said, technology is a tool | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
that can be turned into a weapon. As we become ever more connected, there | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
are fewer safe spaces for bullying and harassment. The Member for calm | :55:12. | :55:20. | |
on reminded us of the horrifying statistics, one third of children | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
have been a victim, one quarter have come across racist or sexist | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
messages, and according to the safer Internet centre, four and five | :55:31. | :55:37. | |
teenagers saw or heard online hates in 2015. That is 80% of our | :55:38. | :55:46. | |
children. The Member for South Perthshire emphasised how online | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
pornography is available that targets children as young as 11. | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
Whilst the Member for North West Hampshire suggested we are | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
sleepwalking into a mental health epidemic because of the impact of | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
bullying and on line hate on our young people. Citizens in this | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
country, they enjoyed the right to walk down their street without being | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
attacked or harassed. When it happens, the police act. Online | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
citizens should have the same rights. As the member said, we need | :56:24. | :56:30. | |
to protect our digital citizens. The Member for mid-Worcestershire said, | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
in his short but powerful contribution, we should focus on our | :56:37. | :56:44. | |
duty to protect young people. Mr Deputy Speaker, that kind of phrase | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
is digital citizens deserve digital rights. It is the government's | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
primary responsibility to keep at it is unsafe, but it is failing that | :56:56. | :57:02. | |
for citizens on line. This is not a technology issue, as the membership | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
for Basingstoke emphasised, it is about standards, protocols, control, | :57:08. | :57:16. | |
industry cooperation, self-regulation and necessary | :57:17. | :57:19. | |
legislation. But we cannot just look at what we have now and try to patch | :57:20. | :57:27. | |
the problem. As well as government, Internet companies also have a | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
responsible as he did keep the Internet safe, and I welcome the | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
fact that Internet, the big Internet firms, are beginning to take that | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
responsibility seriously and particle it when it comes to | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
children. In my view, and in the new of many on all sides, they have been | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
too slow and still not doing enough. So it was great news that Twitter | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
decided to add a button to report abuse, but why on earth did it take | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
seven years for them to think of it? It is important we get the | :57:59. | :58:09. | |
principles right rather than keep up with the latest technology and put | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
sticking plasters over whatever the latest innovation is. We can't keep | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
on having this battle with every new Internet giant all ubiquitous app. | :58:17. | :58:28. | |
As a woman engineer and inept predominantly male industry and | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
particularly when I was working for Ofcom, the communications regulator, | :58:33. | :58:38. | |
I remember the outrage voiced by many in the technology sector when | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
asked to simply consider taking responsibility for contents. Their | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
main accusation was of undermining freedom of speech as the member for | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
Hayward and Middleton highlighted but they also called parents | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
irresponsible if their children are found pawn online and accused women | :59:02. | :59:08. | |
in particular of being oversensitive when we objected to violent images | :59:09. | :59:16. | |
of rape or misogynist threats. As we were reminded, it is women who are | :59:17. | :59:21. | |
often victims of online hate and another member has a very robust | :59:22. | :59:31. | |
approach to challenging online abuse, which we unfortunately cannot | :59:32. | :59:40. | |
all emulate. So I remind the industry players particularly of | :59:41. | :59:43. | |
that period when many champions of what I would call a wild West | :59:44. | :59:51. | |
approach to online safety, not to undermine the work they are doing | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
now, which I will, too, but to highlight that -- some of the lack | :59:56. | :00:03. | |
of trust in the Internet we now see and the reluctance of many to go | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
online can be traced to those early mistakes, when they did not put in | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
place the right kind of support and protection for consumers. And I | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
would also say we are now facing a new frontier in citizen data control | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
and many in the industry, any of the same industry players, Facebook, | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
Twitter, Google, are still on the back foot on this. We need to give | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
citizens and consumers control of their data. And on the subject of | :00:34. | :00:48. | |
online outrage, another member highlighted the game- gate scandal | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
and my most recent period of on line vilification came when I have the | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
audacity to suggest that misogyny in gamers could perhaps be signed | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
poster, not necessarily regulated or eliminated, but simply signposted | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
and that raised outrage by many in the industry who still, I think, do | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
not recognise the importance of social responsibility when it comes | :01:17. | :01:23. | |
to the Internet. So, there are many very bright people in this sector | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
and if they can build algorithms to snoop on our e-mail or phone books | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
or tell us who to be friends with all what washing machine to buy, | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
then they should be able to crack down more effectively on abuse and | :01:38. | :01:44. | |
harassment and put me in the control of my own data. The new platforms | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
need to understand this. Perhaps it is not a major priority, because it | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
doesn't come with a revenue stream attached. But safeguarding people | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
should always be the number one priority. Not just because it is the | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
right thing to do, but also because if we allow the internets to become | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
a place where only those who shout the loudest or who use the most | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
appalling abuse can have a voice, then people will turn away from | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
using it. As a member said, they must be held to account. I'm | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
particularly pleased then that the Motion makes reference to training | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
and education for the police and the young people. I would like to | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
welcome the recent standing up to bullying day on July the 5th, | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
organised by the Diana Awards, which seeks to build digital resilience | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
and the work done by many third sector organisations. This is not a | :02:49. | :02:55. | |
problem that's going to take care of itself without significant and | :02:56. | :02:57. | |
sustained action from industry and governments. And I would like to | :02:58. | :03:05. | |
also welcomed the reclaim the Internet campaign, which many across | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
the House are working on, including my honourable friends the member for | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
Northampton and Castleford. I am sure she looks to the digital | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
economy will fall some of the appropriate responses to online | :03:21. | :03:28. | |
abuse. But I'm afraid we did not see them. I hope the minister will be | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
delighted to learn that we on this side of the housing tend to make | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
significant improvements to the digital online bill and the Digital | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
economy Bill, a successful digital economy requires its citizens and | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
consumers are protected and empowered and both governments and | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
platforms need to use technology to support citizens instead of leaving | :03:52. | :04:00. | |
it to the haters to attack them. I'm very grateful to get the chance to | :04:01. | :04:08. | |
speak. I've no idea how long I have, but I'll keep going until you | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
indicate otherwise. If he keeps it to around ten minutes, we will all | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
be happy. Let me begin by thanking my right honourable friend for this | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
important debate. I was lucky enough to work with her when she was | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
Secretary of State and she took on two important issues, one was the | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
issue of press regulation and the other was equal marriage, both of | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
which she handled with aplomb. That I also have to say that she has | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
shown the House how one transitions from that position to a new role and | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
has taken a huge leading role in this House in terms of women and | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
equalities issues and certainly has pushed forward the important agenda | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
of online abuse. So it's no surprise at all to find a leading this debate | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
and also setting out some very clear approaches and suggestions for the | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
Government, which I think it is beholden on us to take seriously and | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
think it is worth recalling that when these issues have been raised | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
in the House, for example the honourable member first raised the | :05:20. | :05:26. | |
issue about children's access to adult content online, they have | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
resulted in action. Sometimes debates in this House can appear to | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
be simply an exchange of views between Government and the members | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
of the House, but actually come on this agenda, because it is so fast | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
moving, I think that the House has a great deal of influence in the | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
direction of Government policy. As I say, without wishing to pick out | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
individual is too much, I would say my right honourable friend has | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
certainly pushed this forward, not least the change in legislation on | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
revenge pornography last year. I think it would be remiss of me to go | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
through every single speech that has been made, I think we have something | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
like 18 or 19 honourable member that I make contributions and all of | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
those have been serious and worthwhile. Though I'd appreciate | :06:22. | :06:31. | |
the odd moment of light-heartedness, not least from my honourable friend | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
who pointed she responds to online abuse the picture of a kitten, and | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
that appealed to me as I have a now well-known picture of a kitten | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
sitting on my shoulder when I visited Battersea cats and dogs home | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
and I will allow you that in future to respond to my online trolls. I | :06:50. | :06:59. | |
was also amused when another complained that teenagers now live | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
in the world surrounded by people who are perfect and wonderful to | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
look at and I wondered what he thought that was a problem when all | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
of us in this House exist in a world of the Palace of Westminster where | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
people are charming and lovely and the world is absolutely perfect, as | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
we found out particularly in the last week or so. It seems to me that | :07:18. | :07:25. | |
what has emerged of four clear issues, but let me briefly pause to | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
put into context that first of all, this Government is quite rightly | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
committed to an open Internet. When I attend international forums, it is | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
very important that the UK are committed to what we call the | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
multi-stakeholder approach for Internet governance and that is | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
civic society, business and Government working together to keep | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
the Internet open and free, because we know that more authoritarian | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
inclined regimes would like to regulate the Internet and restricts | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
freedom of speech and clamp-down on innovation. However, it is perfectly | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
true that we in this Government and country regard what is illegal or | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
wrong off-line as illegal and wrong online. I think as some honourable | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
members made the point earlier, some people seem to believe that the | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
rules of behaviour and indeed the legal rules we all live by in the | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
physical world somehow do not apply on the Internet. That is not the | :08:27. | :08:34. | |
case. I think the UK has led the way in approaching this issue, partly | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
from a perspective of self-regulation rather than | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
legislation, that is because self-regulation works because it | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
brings about partnerships and also because it helps us move forward | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
more quickly. A good example is the creation of the Internet watch | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
foundation, which was really the first charity focused on images of | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
child sexual abuse and it's a model that's been copied around the world | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
and they became incredibly important in driving forward the changes that | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
were brought about recently in terms of working with search engines such | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
as Google to make it much, much harder to search and discover ridges | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
of child abuse online. We worked again with and to ensure funding | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
from Internet service providers to increase their capacity and we've | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
worked with the ten large providers to use technology to be able to | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
match and traced images to make it easier to catch perpetrators. | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
Similarly, by working with industry we were able to secure family | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
friendly filters that default on option where people log on and have | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
two actively disable the filters that prevent harmful content from | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
reaching young people and also with the industry on a very important and | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
generously funded campaign Internet Matters, they previously set of the | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
Council for Internet child safety which brings together 200 | :10:05. | :10:06. | |
stakeholders to work on these issues. They have an important | :10:07. | :10:14. | |
effect in terms of driving forward policy. And of course, we continue | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
to make progress increasing police capability, the creation of the | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
First Minister for Internet safety,, might colleague Baroness shields and | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
in the Digital economy Bill, the introduction of legislation to | :10:32. | :10:33. | |
ensure age verification for adult content. Let me say what emerged | :10:34. | :10:42. | |
from this debate were four clear issues are trapped in the Government | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
should take forward. First, while there was welcomed praise for the | :10:47. | :10:53. | |
Essex and Durham Constabulary, there was recognition for the need to | :10:54. | :11:02. | |
scale up the police. We do have the scent of combat child exploitation | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
and we have various arrangements within the national police servers. | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
But in cyber crime in general, which is often financial crime, but also, | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
this kind of crime, it should be possible to create specialist units | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
and with a national capability. I also think police should think very | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
hard about the people of the recruits. There is no longer any | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
need to recruit people through a conventional police training method, | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
people who are capable of walking the beat for example or doing the | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
traditional roles of policing. There is every opportunity to recruit with | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
specialist skills and people in this area who may not have transferable | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
skills in the rest of the service, but who could be recruited | :11:51. | :11:51. | |
relatively quickly to do this work. Clarity from the myriad of different | :11:52. | :12:06. | |
acts and statutes which come to bear from this, and I think the new | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
government will want to make a can't make this a | :12:13. | :12:19. | |
Consolidated. That is a clear call from this House which must be taken | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
forward. There was the issue of anonymity, and I noted the Member | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
for East Dunbartonshire debating whether it was an issue which should | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
be considered. I wouldn't want to legislate to remove anonymity, that | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
should be a matter for the individual platform, whether they | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
allow anonymous users, just as I would not require the role mail to | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
refuse to handle any letter that had been sent an honours -- Royal Mail. | :12:48. | :12:55. | |
It leads me onto the role of platforms. It is interesting, in | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
terms of the online world, we have these companies which in many | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
respects are bigger and more influential than many nation states. | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
Facebook has a population of 1.2 billion, Twitter has a population of | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
300 million, and yet they are to a certain extent that the own devices | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
to create their own rules and regulations, without the role of | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
government or indeed Civic society as a whole being taken into account. | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
Clearly platforms have to work with governments and with civic society | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
to create rules, die would support my right honourable friend in her | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
call in something I've been keen to make progress on, to see within the | :13:42. | :13:51. | |
UK a clear code of competent cut conduct, and for the users, and | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
we've had some horrific examples, but we know these examples because | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
we see them day in, day out, either on the news or ourselves or our | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
friends being attacked, the clarity in terms of the remedies available, | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
rapid remedies available to people abused. I give way. I'm grateful, | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
could he address the situation that was raised, whether there should be | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
legislation placing specific duties on some of these large companies | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
that he talked about, particulate with regard to child protection, and | :14:26. | :14:35. | |
whether we would like to see consolidation of existing | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
legislation into one bill which we could all look at, or we would see | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
some of these measures brought forward individual economy Bill, | :14:42. | :14:51. | |
will that happen? B say, -- B say, the views of my right honourable | :14:52. | :15:01. | |
friend need to be taken seriously. I listen to what he says seriously. | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
How can I put this? I want to get the digital economy Bill through, so | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
I would be cautious about inviting my right honourable friend to load | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
additional responsible at ease on it, particularly on issues which | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
perhaps needs careful thought and planning. I was certainly welcome a | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
discussion with him and indeed I would never rule in future | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
appropriate regulation to push the responsibility on to social media | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
platforms for some of the appalling abuse that we see day in, day out. I | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
don't think it is enough of them, this applies to issues such as | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
intellectual property and the online theft of music and film. It is not | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
enough to see the platform simply as passive vehicles, they are extremely | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
wealthy companies who rely on a large number of users in order to | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
generate the advertising that creates the wealth of their | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
shareholders. There needs to be a partnership, and I wouldn't rule out | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
future regulation. Having said that, given a post Brexit situation, when | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
we are keen to have inward investment, I wouldn't want to | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
frighten anyone off. Clearly we need to work with these companies and | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
clearly we need very clear guidelines and a very clear | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
definition of what our online abuse is, but more importantly, a very | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
quick reaction so all of us as constituency MPs don't have too | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
certain surgeries with people coming in at the distress, sometimes with | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
the lies and pieces because there is material online they soon become a | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
get any adequate response from the platform that is housing that | :16:52. | :16:53. | |
material. This has been an extremely helpful and useful debate, and I | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
look forward to moving seamlessly to the next one, which I'm also | :16:59. | :17:06. | |
responding to. I'd like to find members for supporting this debate | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
with search superb contributions today, and the Minister who has sat | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
in his place listening throughout to this debate and has demonstrated the | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
strength of feeling that he's seen amongst members, across the House. | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
The UK has led the way in tackling some of the early challenges online, | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
working with European and US partners to put on a global approach | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
to outlawing child abuse images. We've also pulled some of the first | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
legislation to make it a crime to post revenge pornography, but we are | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
now at real risk of falling behind, and it is clear today there is | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
universal condemnation of online abuse. Why have we not in parliament | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
seen this government present laws to update that situation? There's | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
cross-party support for specific laws to tackle online abuse, to | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
consider specific duties on the police, and schools, social network | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
platforms, search engines, Internet providers, that show zero tolerance | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
to online abuse. I have to wholeheartedly disagree with my very | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
great friend, the Minister, when he talks about anonymity. We have to | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
lift the veil of anonymity in this country, to make sure people are | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
responsible for what they say. We do it in every other part of our lives, | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
why not online? The Minister is fortunate to have the Digital | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
economy Bill introduced, to make the sort of changes that have been | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
called by members of all parties here today. We need to make sure | :18:46. | :18:53. | |
those changes are made as part also of a coherent cross government | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
strategy. He need to take members concerns back to his department and | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
call for action now. The questionnaires, on the paper. Say | :19:03. | :19:11. | |
aye. The ayes habit, the ayes have it. We come to the backbench debate | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
for the UK support for creative industries and their conjuration to | :19:19. | :19:19. | |
the economy. It is a pleasure to stand to move | :19:20. | :19:29. | |
the motion as on the order paper. Along with the honourable members | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
for Warwick and them in turn, Edinburgh and Dundee, we applied to | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
the backbench business committee to this debate to take place, because | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
it is necessary that this House recognises the vital role that the | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
creative industries plate in our culture and economy. The issue has | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
not been debated for some considerable time in this chamber, | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
and I would like the bank all of those members from all sides of the | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
House who supported the action for this debate. I would also like to | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
put on record I am on the steering committee for Sunderland 2021, which | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
is our bid to be the Capital of Culture in 2021, and although I am | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
and pay for this, I do feel it should be noted as I will be | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
referring to their work and Istomin's bid to become UK city of | :20:18. | :20:26. | |
culture in speech. The UK is a world hub for the creative industries, | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
they showcase the best of our country, they are outward looking, | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
innovative and successful. The achievement of the creative | :20:36. | :20:37. | |
industries can be seen throughout the length and breadth of our | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
country, and I'm sure the honourable members from all sides of the House | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
will be speaking about the wonderful creative elements of the | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
constituencies they represent, just as I will discuss the bass crater | :20:50. | :20:58. | |
video in Sunderland Central. She has started off in a positive fashion | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
and like much appreciated. I used to be the chief executive of a film and | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
video production company, and we had a real that 40% of our income must | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
come from overseas. I wonder whether she has thought about the | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
contribution that creative industries make to the exporter in | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
this country. Absolutely. The creative industries are almost a | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
hidden gem because they are so good at creating wealth and turnover, | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
exports, imports, but they are hidden, they are not the glamorous | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
things you see in manufacturing industries. I absolutely accept the | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
point. The creative industries are comprised of many subsectors, | :21:44. | :21:52. | |
advertising, architecture, arts, crafts, design, fashion, film, | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
music, performing arts, publishing, television, research and develop | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
and, software, games, radio, and goes on and on. That is part of why | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
they are so hidden because they're so bust. I hope that today this | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
House will pay tribute to the central role they all play in | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
helping to drive innovation and growth. We are world leaders in | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
these fields, and there are many success stories. The BBC, which from | :22:21. | :22:30. | |
debates we've held recently is envied and renowned around the | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
world, creating a staggering ?8 billion of economic value for our | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
country. And for every ?1 spent on the BBC through the licence fee, it | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
produces ?2 worth of value through employment, economic opportunities | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
and expenditure. The fashion sector is the largest employer of the | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
creative industries, supporting almost a tendered thousand jobs. And | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
in 2014, the direct value of the UK fashion industry to our economy in | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
this country was estimated to be ?26 billion. Many of our authors are | :23:04. | :23:10. | |
facing economic uncertainty, but they are among the most talented the | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
world, providing engaging scripts were TV, film and theatre. Producing | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
literature, and submitting content for interactive products and | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
services. Our authors play a key role in the UK being a nation of | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
readers. Just this week the Department of culture, media and | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
sport announced the UK's creative sector is booming. Jobs in the | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
creative industries have increased three times faster than the UK | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
average in other sectors. It is now estimated that they generate almost | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
?10 million an hour for the UK economy. Totalling an incredible ?84 | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
billion a year, quite staggering figures. In 2015, there were 1.9 | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
million jobs in the creative industries, up 19.5% since 2011. And | :24:00. | :24:08. | |
accounting for one in 11 of all jobs in the UK. And over 60% of the jobs | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
in and around the creative sector are skilled to degree level or | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
above. It is therefore highly concerning that the University of | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
Sunderland, in my constituency, has reported that there has been a | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
reduction in the number of applications that they have received | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
from students wishing to study arts, culture and creative subjects. And | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
last month, of course announce entries which each season subjects | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
have fallen by 46,000 this year, compared with 2015. Before coming to | :24:43. | :24:51. | |
this place, I worked in a crate of industries for almost 20 years. As a | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
graduate in economics, can I gently point out it isn't only those who | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
have studied pure art subjects that can contribute to the creative | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
industries, which are one of the greatest exports this country has. I | :25:05. | :25:11. | |
totally accept the point, and I think the figures I've quoted on the | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
value to the economy show the importance to the economy and | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
therefore we need people from other skills, including economists, to | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
take part in it, but it is a worrying sign that creative | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
applications have gone down. I would sincerely hope the government will | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
act to promote creative subjects at GCSE, A-level and BTEC, and | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
challenged the many universities that offer thriving programmes. Mr | :25:40. | :25:46. | |
Speaker, I would like to now focus on the brilliant creativity and | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
culture in Sunderland Central, the contingency I live in and represent. | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
Sunderland has been the centre the culture and higher learning since | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
the seventh century. Benedict built the church in 74A.D on the side that | :26:01. | :26:08. | |
is occupied by the Sunderland University campus. Among the | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
earliest students at the monastery was the renowned author and scholar, | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
the Venerable Bede, Sunderland's proud history and glass making dates | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
back to this period. When the first stained-glass ever made in England | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
was created for Saint Peter's church by craftsmen that had come to | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
Sunderland from France. The national glass centre, which has undergone a | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
?2.5 million redesign, is located in my constituency and tells a story of | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
our city's glass production heritage and attracts more than 200 visitors | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
every year. As well as teaching and research in class and promised, the | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
centre also continues to manufacture glass. As later shown earlier, in | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
order for the creative industries to continue to thrive, we need to | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
ensure that creative subjects are not sidelined in our schools and | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
that our universities continue to aid student creative it develop men. | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
I'm proud we have a fantastic institution for higher education, | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
which specialises in courses that equip graduates with the skills that | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
creative sector needs. Over the past ten years, University of has | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
invested in cultural and creative education, including the Northern | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
centre of photography, but media centre, Spark FM, and the media hub. | :27:34. | :27:43. | |
The this year construction has begun on a new centre for enterprise and | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
innovation at the University's city campus. This will become home to the | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
North East's first lab to support businesses in Sunderland and the | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
wider region and allowing companies the space they need whilst also | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
providing them with access to a higher level of professional and | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
academic expertise. No doubt the new centre will build on the | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
University's strong track record in support for innovation in my city. | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
It's also fair to say the creative industries are growing in the UK in | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
large part due to the Digital economy. In Sunderland, we were once | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
renowned for our coal mining and shipbuilding industries, and now in | :28:31. | :28:32. | |
the north-east, Sunderland is leading the way with a thriving | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
software sector, rising over 150 firms in the city with a vision of | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
future expansion. A major success story has been Sunderland's software | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
city, an ambitious partnership between the public and private | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
sectors and the University. Its aim is to support innovation and growth | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
in the north-east software industry and since it was established in | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
2009, it has persisted over 300 software businesses and help to 150 | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
start ups. It is thought to attract investment and skilled workers to | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
our region. Now, over 32,000 people are employed in the North East's IT | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
sector and global tech companies have established permanent bases in | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
Sunderland providing high skilled, quality jobs and promising career | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
path is for young people. As previously said, a group of coders | :29:32. | :29:40. | |
from culture, education, business, media and health and economic | :29:41. | :29:47. | |
regeneration are needed to steer the strategic direction of the bid and | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
help build a compelling vision for Sunderland over the next decade. Our | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
bid to become city of culture in 2021 is showcasing the very best of | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
Sunderland, particularly its creativity. It is a shining light on | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
our vibrant, home-grown music scene. Sunderland -based bands such as Fear | :30:09. | :30:17. | |
Of Music, and the future heads and Frankie and the heartstrings have | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
generated almost ?1 million worth of worldwide record sales they also | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
have the support of our famous sons and daughters such as Dave Stewart, | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
previously of the Eurythmics and Lauren Laverne. Sunderland also has | :30:30. | :30:36. | |
wonderful venues for musicians in which many talented artists have | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
performed. Unlike pitcher but to the tireless work of a sustained live | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
music venues in Sunderland and the Stadium of light, usually home to | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
Sunderland football club. In the summer, it has hosted concerts from | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
some of the biggest names in world music since 2009. Indeed, last week, | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
beyond say kicks off the UK leg of her tour at the Stadium of light. | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
The Stadium of light being built on the former large coalminer -- | :31:04. | :31:12. | |
Beyonce. I would also like to but she but to the Sunderland arts and | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
cultural trust, better known... It has been a driving force for many | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
things happening in arts and regeneration at the heart of the | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
Sunderland 2021 bid. It is 2012, the trust has sought to implement | :31:29. | :31:30. | |
ambitious plans that are now coming to fruition, with a vision for | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
Sunderland's future as a vibrant, creating an exciting place where art | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
music and culture flourish. The trust is as establishing a cultural | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
quarter in the heart of our city by converting some of Sunderland's | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
historic buildings into cultural hubs. He just has also put its | :31:51. | :31:57. | |
weight behind the cultural Spring project working with the universe | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
Dalla cultural House trust transform the way people in my constituency | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
and that of my honourable friend 's the member for South Shields and | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
Washington and Sunderland West view, experience and make arts. I am | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
immensely proud of the work that is going on in Sunderland and I am | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
delighted I've had the chance to showcase the wonderful role that | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
creative industries play in our local culture and economy and the | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
importance of this sector to the national economy. I also think this | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
debate is going to give other members the opportunity to show the | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
immense breadth and diversity we have in this sector, which is all | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
too often not talked about in terms of the economic benefit that we can | :32:42. | :32:52. | |
get from the industries. First of all, may I say how delighted I am to | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
follow the honourable member for Sunderland in Central and listen to | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
her remarks. Also so that the Backbench Business Committee for | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
allowing us to secure this debate which we have called to highlight | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
the significant contribution of the creative industries and that's | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
contribution they make to the UK industry and stressed the importance | :33:18. | :33:19. | |
of its continued support, whether through investment or general and | :33:20. | :33:29. | |
wider awareness. The honourable member mentioned various lists in | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
her speech. The creative industries cover a number of iconic and diverse | :33:34. | :33:40. | |
national treasures, whether it is the Tate, Pinewood Studios, the | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
British library and my favourite being and Dell rather than perhaps | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
Beyonce and also the BBC. -- and Dell. The creative industries have | :33:51. | :34:00. | |
contributed 84 by 1 billion to the UK economy in 2014, equivalent to | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
9.6 million every hour with an annual growth of nearly 10%. This is | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
an opportunity to celebrate our creative industries and celebrate | :34:13. | :34:19. | |
how best the sector has its potential realised. It is clear the | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
creative industries are flourishing and are playing an ever increasing | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
role in our economy. With growth outstripping finance and the | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
insurance sectors and employment of 55%, significantly higher than the | :34:36. | :34:46. | |
2.1% average. -- 5.1%. With anticipation that half of | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
occupations will become automated, highly skilled and creative | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
workforce will become important where human ingenuity cannot be | :34:56. | :35:03. | |
replaced by robots. There is at this point appropriate to congratulate | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
the Minister for being the longest serving arts Minister in our | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
nation's great history. Recent figures show the number of jobs in | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
the creative industries increased by 3.2%. That is something in the | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
region of 1.9 million jobs. The increases 2011 has been nearly 20%. | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
These headline statistics are important, but in terms of skills, | :35:33. | :35:35. | |
the flow of talent into the sector is vital and we should continue to | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
encourage and inspire our young people to become more involved and | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
aware of the sector. It is in this context I commend the Government for | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
introducing coding into the curriculum in 2014. We must continue | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
to allow and help our businesses to highly skilled individuals to do so | :35:59. | :36:06. | |
from a strong, UK base of talent and it follows that such a high growth | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
rate in the creative industries most not allow others to create a skills | :36:10. | :36:17. | |
gap in the sector. Whether it is from the primary school level | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
through to colleges and universities, I urge for a nurturing | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
of creative talent to allow the UK to become a renowned internationally | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
as a place to do business in the creative sphere. In my constituency, | :36:29. | :36:35. | |
Warwickshire College sets a strong example offering a wide range of | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
courses in related subject areas to ensure students are able to develop | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
skills and this approach should be taken up more widely. The United | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
Nations defines the UK's creative industry sector as being at the | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
crossroads between arts, business and technology. We are at the | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
forefront of the sector internationally and I would suggest | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
our global ranking of first in terms of soft power is largely due to the | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
rich cultural aspects of our country. The originator of the | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
concept highlighted three pillars that contribute to a nation's soft | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
power, one of which is our strength in terms of culture. Our creative | :37:22. | :37:28. | |
industries underpinned this success. As co-chair of the video games all | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
party group, it would be remiss of me not to mention the sector and its | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
huge contribution to our economy. I am pleased to see my fellow chair, | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
the member for Dundee West in his place and I look forward to hearing | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
his remarks also. The industry employs 24,000 people across 12 | :37:50. | :37:56. | |
clusters in the UK, with a significant of games companies based | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
in my constituency. This industry blends the best of British | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
technology, creating games exported around the world. The global market | :38:06. | :38:13. | |
expected to expand by a percent over the next few years, it is something | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
we cannot ignore. An important point about our record is the need for | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
video games to be seen in the context of contributing to our | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
cultural make up and I believe it is right it is put on the same footing | :38:27. | :38:33. | |
as full on television. In terms of investment, the weight is perceived, | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
with regards to its cultural contribution to our society. | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
Parliaments can and should do more to champion the gamers as a | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
mainstream, creative tech industry right across the UK and funding | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
should equitably recognise the sector as such. We are home to 40 | :38:51. | :38:59. | |
companies providing 1200 jobs and I'm beginning to feel unfortunate | :39:00. | :39:08. | |
weathervanes silicon spark. The tax credits of video games have been a | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
major boost to the business, both globally and nationally and I | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
encourage the Government is, after the good work it is done in terms of | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
tax credits, to make sure the industry is far more aware of the ad | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
vantage this will give. We need to be sure greater awareness of games | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
developers access to tax credits. 237 games were giving tax relief in | :39:30. | :39:37. | |
2015 and this number must surely grow to help other companies trying | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
to work hard in this industry. We must also continue to invest in the | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
arts, following on from a long tradition of doing so, maintaining | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
world-class museums and galleries. The UK now invest a smaller | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
percentage of its GDP in arts and culture than the EU average and less | :39:58. | :40:04. | |
than competitors such as France and Germany and I'm sure this is | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
something we should be speaking about in the coming months. The arts | :40:08. | :40:17. | |
foster a sphere in which ideas fostered and it benefits our economy | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
enormously. In London theatres generated nearly 100 million in the | :40:22. | :40:28. | |
ATV is in 2013 which is a record number. Furthermore, spending an | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
Arts Council England represents 0.1% of total public spending in England | :40:33. | :40:39. | |
and cultural contribution, 0.4% of UK gross value added. Public | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
investment yields excellent written and hope the Minister will indicate | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
the Government's intention to look more closely at increasing such | :40:48. | :40:54. | |
investment. With more investments comes greater diversity and increase | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
opportunities for ideas to become commercial success stories. The | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
exponential growth of creative industry needs to be recognised by | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
Whitehall. And also by the Business, Innovation and Skills, which notes | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
the centre is part of an industrial growth area. This ties into my | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
contribution to the most recent Queen's speech debate in which I | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
called for an implementation of industrial strategy. As part of that | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
cohesive and concise document, which I envisaged to be a rolling progress | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
report from the Cabinet Office, the Government should outline its | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
promotion and support across the creative and cultural sectors. The | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
Government's export target of 1 trillion annually by 2020 is very | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
welcome, but he must allow industries with such significant | :41:52. | :41:51. | |
growth pattern to flourish. Industry leaders have put forward | :41:52. | :42:02. | |
proposals that could add to our exports. I would like to turn to the | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
Digital economy and note the bill introduced yesterday. The drive to | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
improve our infrastructure will have very positive impact on our ability | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
to innovate, create and improve productivity. Digital technology is | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
embedded in much of what we do. I support the Government in providing | :42:23. | :42:32. | |
our wealth creators providing what class products. The strategy seeks | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
to take inspiration from the creative industries which have been | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
at the forefront of innovation in many aspects of our life. Of course, | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
confidence to invest is key not least in industries that require | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
long-term decision-making. I urge creative industries to be a major | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
consideration as we enter negotiations with the EU. In some I | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
am pleased we have the opportunity today to raise the profile. These | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
statistics speak for themselves in terms of the tremendous contribution | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
the sector makes to our economy and a call on the Government to support | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
and recognise this and allow the potential of the creative industries | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
to be realised. The UK can and should be seen as a creative | :43:20. | :43:27. | |
powerhouse. Can we stick to nine minutes, everybody get equal time. | :43:28. | :43:36. | |
The Chancellor in his Autumn Statement said, Britain is not just | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
brilliant at science, it is brilliant at culture, one of the | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
best investments we can make as a nation is in our extraordinary arts | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
museums, heritage, media and sport, but if we don't also invest in the | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
education which prepares children to play roles in those industries, we | :43:56. | :44:03. | |
will slide backwards. Many of the people here in this debate were able | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
to participate in a debate in Westminster earlier this week about | :44:09. | :44:15. | |
the impact of the E back in education, in theatre, art, drama, | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
music and other expressive arts. Our concern during that debate was that | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
there is a direct relationship between the introduction of a | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
mandatory of a limited number of subjects which include none of those | :44:36. | :44:38. | |
subjects and a reduction in the number of students taking GCSEs, | :44:39. | :44:46. | |
A-levels and other examinations in the subject. I have to say the | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
Minister for education said that was not true. He depended on figures | :44:52. | :44:58. | |
which were at least a year old to sustain his argument that there had | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
not been such a decline and he went on to say, my association is there | :45:03. | :45:15. | |
will be no significant for our subjects as a consequence of the | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
figure of 90%. I have seen evidence that there is already that fall | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
occurring and what I would like to use today in this debate is to | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
persuade the minister who is here in this debate to agree to meet with | :45:27. | :45:34. | |
his colleagues in the Department for Education. If our figures are | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
correct and if that continues to be a decline in the number of students | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
taking up the subjects, in order to persuade his colleagues that that an | :45:46. | :45:55. | |
unintended consequence of the proposal which the minister said is | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
necessary to get us to the same levels as Iceland, on Torrie, | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
countries which are nowhere near ours when it comes to the | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
performance of their creative industries, if he would agree to | :46:09. | :46:15. | |
meet the Minister in the Department for Education, to say to him if the | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
decline continues in the numbers of students doing the subjects in | :46:21. | :46:27. | |
exams, to ask him to include at least one of these expressive | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
subjects students should be able to choose which, within the suite of | :46:34. | :46:41. | |
mandatory GCSE subjects. Because if we do not do that, we will slide | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
backwards and I think there is no doubt that our brilliant creative | :46:47. | :46:56. | |
industries depend enormously on children having experience of drama, | :46:57. | :47:04. | |
dance, art, music in school and they depend enormously on the creativity | :47:05. | :47:12. | |
which is traditionally part of UK education. Frankly, a number of | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
things which are now creative industries, which creative now do | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
you were not invented while I was at school. Video games, beatbox, | :47:21. | :47:28. | |
Twitter, these things simply did not exist. In fact, e-mail did not exist | :47:29. | :47:36. | |
and it seems to me that we need to ensure that young people get the | :47:37. | :47:44. | |
experience of the creativity that is possible and the disciplines and | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
craft which is so much at the heart of many of our creative industries | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
as an experience while they are in school. The honourable member | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
earlier said that it is not necessarily professionally to study | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
the subjects in order to be a creative. Absolutely true, but it is | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
necessary to have experience of them and I am concerned about the number | :48:11. | :48:17. | |
of children particularly and I'm specifically children in the least | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
privileged communities who are losing contact with these | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
experiences. There are wonderful opportunities. Earlier I was at the | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
National Theatre watching the youth drama Festival, outstanding work | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
done by young people in young theatre groups around Britain. But | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
so many young people have never had an opportunity to participate in a | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
live performance of music or all theatre, so many of our young people | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
actually have not experienced all learnt from someone who is employed | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
in a creative industry and I specifically would like the | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
Minister, when he answers this debate, to make a commitment that he | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
will discuss with the Department for Education is my prediction about | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
what is happening to these expressive arts subjects in our | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
schools is correct, that he will directly speak to the minister about | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
ways to end that decline. And in addition, will he ensure that there | :49:24. | :49:34. | |
is an opportunity in our schools for children to always have an | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
experience of live theatre, to always, every child to be able to go | :49:39. | :49:45. | |
and visit a museum, every child to actually hear directly from someone | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
who is employed in a creative industry, who makes of their living | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
through creating things, because the thing I know as a previous primary | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
teacher is that children are creative. That is what play is, it | :49:59. | :50:06. | |
is children creating things and the problem is often that creativity is | :50:07. | :50:09. | |
driven out of them by the way that we teach them and what we have to do | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
is instead of driving out their creativity, we have to give them the | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
skills that means that there are in eight creativity can be developed | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
and that in addition means not just reinvest in education but the | :50:27. | :50:34. | |
Minister expects all of our aunts organisations -- arts organisations | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
to take their responsibility to young people very seriously. I am | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
not saying they don't, I have just cited an example of our premier art | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
in situ since doing that. I went to the Barbican where children were | :50:50. | :50:55. | |
part of the performance of Sir Peter Maxwell Davies's last opera and so | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
they do have a lot of good things to be proud about, but every child | :51:01. | :51:07. | |
should have an opportunity to engage with some of our great creative | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
institutions, to learn from them so that we can in the future have | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
creative industries which make the most of that talent, so that instead | :51:18. | :51:25. | |
of the new Gradgrind education and I referred the Minister to Dickens | :51:26. | :51:32. | |
hard times where system due knew everything there was to know about | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
horses, was not able to define a horse because it was such an | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
exciting animal. Whereas, pupil numbers six came up with the right | :51:45. | :51:52. | |
answer and that is where we are heading in our education system, | :51:53. | :52:02. | |
that we reward the businesses of our world. This Minister, I know would | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
like to do that and this Minister could interact with the Department | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
for Education to change their Gradgrind approach and to make sure | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
that every child in Britain has a chance to learn how to best choose | :52:18. | :52:26. | |
their innate creativity. Can I start by thanking the backbench business | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
committee and the member for Sunderland Central for pushing | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
forward this debate. Really crucial we have time in the House to discuss | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
the creative industries and it is a very broad topic and rightly so | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
given the immense variety of roles that there are within the creative | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
industries. But as chairman of the all-party group on music, I would | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
like to focus my brief remarks on that sector. I fear I might be | :52:57. | :53:04. | |
spoiling the Minister who has had to listen to me twice in two days to | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
talk about this subject but I am sure he can cope with that. I would | :53:09. | :53:15. | |
like to highlight some statistics from the recently released report by | :53:16. | :53:27. | |
the representatives body UK in music and their report demonstrates how | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
vibrant and productive the music scene is in the UK today. They are | :53:31. | :53:39. | |
measuring music shows the music industry is contributing to our | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
economy here. 4.1 billion to the UK economy in 2014, 117,000 full-time | :53:46. | :53:51. | |
jobs and a huge number of these jobs are creative, musicians, composers, | :53:52. | :54:01. | |
songwriter 's and lyricists accounted for ?1.9 billion. Not only | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
is music vital to our economy, it is also our face to the outside world, | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
the measure in music report found music exports accounted for 2.1 | :54:12. | :54:19. | |
billion in annual revenue, over half of the industry's Gross value added. | :54:20. | :54:26. | |
One in seven of all album sales across the globe were by British | :54:27. | :54:29. | |
artists and five of the top ten selling albums in 2014 work by | :54:30. | :54:35. | |
British artists and that is before artists like Adele delivered another | :54:36. | :54:42. | |
blockbuster year in 2015. And the wish you were here report into music | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
tourism reinforce this message. The direct and indirect spend from music | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
tourism was some 3.7 billion in 2014. Many members will enjoy | :54:54. | :55:00. | |
festivals around the country, I have already seen the Secretary of State | :55:01. | :55:10. | |
at a festival. I am sure the Minister will do a fantastic job in | :55:11. | :55:17. | |
replying. ?3.7 billion, a 7% increase on the previous year. 38% | :55:18. | :55:23. | |
of our live music audience were tourists who came here seeking out | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
their favourite British artists and they spend an average of ?852 in the | :55:28. | :55:34. | |
UK, all of which sustains over 39,000 full-time jobs here in | :55:35. | :55:41. | |
Britain. UK music has also begun undertaking a census of the live | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
music scene in key UK cities so that policymakers, planners, local | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
authorities can have access to the kind of data they need to assess the | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
impact of decisions on the music industry in their areas. The first | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
report, the Bristol census, and I note the honourable member for | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
Bristol is in her place, showed that in that city alone, live music | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
generated ?123 million of revenue in 2014. I look forward to seeing more | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
reporting so we have the knowledge rather than just the desire to do | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
right by our music scene and those who work in it. | :56:23. | :56:28. | |
The Scottish affairs committee report on the creative industries in | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
Scotland published in February, recommending that the Government get | :56:34. | :56:41. | |
representative is of the music industry to show how these can be | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
adapted to be of greater benefit for Scotland, including variable rates | :56:47. | :56:48. | |
of tax relief for different parts of the UK, creating a tax relief for | :56:49. | :56:56. | |
the music industry and piloting a tax if for those working in the | :56:57. | :56:58. | |
creative sector. Will the honourable member join me in calling on the | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
Government to disclose what measures have been taken in this area so far? | :57:04. | :57:10. | |
A reasonable thing to ask. The minister is not in his place, but I | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
shall remind him. Perhaps you can intervene on the Minister later. It | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
is right that we do whatever we can across the UK to ensure that the | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
creative industries are given all of the tools necessary to grow that | :57:24. | :57:30. | |
part of our economy. When we speak of the contribution to the economy, | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
we must remember that the economy is not some of the term. The economy | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
means people's jobs, and they're able to to make a living. Yesterday, | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
I held the West Mr Hall debate on the subject of remuneration for | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
artists for online play and streaming. It is important to note | :57:47. | :57:55. | |
that it is not just an issue for the big names, it is an issue for the | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
song writers, producers and others who put work into a song, who rely | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
on more than someone who has the profile. They rely on that revenue | :58:06. | :58:14. | |
from the playing. My colleagues took part in a productive discussion | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
about what remain similar to the new policy area, one where we will soon | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
have significant more power as the UK exits the EU. Recently, I spoke | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
to one songwriter who had seen the princely sum of less than ?6 of | :58:30. | :58:36. | |
revenue from some 3.2 million plays of his song on you Tube. It is not | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
hard to imagine the despair of someone who sees the light was macro | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
work available for free on the Internet with little or no prospect | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
of financial reward. I want to commend BBC Radio at this stage, | :58:50. | :58:56. | |
which has done so much, not only to give new artists exposure, but to | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
make sure they are paid for exposure. They take risks on new | :59:02. | :59:09. | |
artist, helping them to drive record sales and build their profile. The | :59:10. | :59:14. | |
BBC plays a vital role in the development and promotion of UK | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
music, both culturally and economically. What they do for | :59:19. | :59:20. | |
unsigned acts, with their Introducing initiative is amazingly | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
successful. It is not just Radio 1, Radio 2 host a wide range of | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
specialised programming, helping audiences discover new music and | :59:32. | :59:34. | |
break new British artists in specialist genres. A bit more of | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
this spirit of nurturing creative talent across the industry is a | :59:40. | :59:46. | |
priority that would be welcome. The bpi reports that there was more | :59:47. | :59:54. | |
revenue raised from the 2.1 million vinyl LP sales by British artists | :59:55. | :59:59. | |
than the 27 billion music video streams on you Tube and similar | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
platforms. This is not about shutting down technologies, it will | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
be about striking the right balance and, to me, it is clear we have not | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
done so. As the well-known manager, Brian message, said the digital era | :00:17. | :00:24. | |
allowed those in the music business to pull together for the economic | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
benefit of all stakeholders. To our detriment, this did not come to | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
pass. I would welcome all contributions from colleagues to | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
ongoing discussions on where the right balance will lie. To pick up | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
more of the themes that we discussed yesterday morning in Westminster | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
Hall. We also need support, particularly local authorities, to | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
insure we the structure to produce great music here in the UK. There is | :00:50. | :00:58. | |
an issue around business rates being levied on festivals around the | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
country, sometimes retrospectively. This could have a huge detrimental | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
impact on the festival industry, right across the country. The | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
studios that can accommodate the orchestras are needed to film | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
soundtracks, for example, are very rare. I believe we only have two | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
here in London. I'm sure the Minister will correct me if I'm not | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
accurate on that. This is minimum capacity, as this kind of work must | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
be booked on short notice was up if we lose this ability, this recording | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
will be taken elsewhere and it will not be available for British | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
musicians. To make successful financially viable careers, to be | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
ambassadors for Brit and bring tourists here, our artist need to be | :01:43. | :01:49. | |
successful abroad, especially in the United States was not the need to | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
break that market to be globally successful. The current visa system | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
for UK message and is -- UKP stations wishing to perform their | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
costs hundreds or thousands of pounds and requires expensive | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
overnight visits with officials. The system for foreign musicians to come | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
here entails only a small fraction of the cost, and I'm sure that | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
ministers have heard from me on the subject, but I reiterate that | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
support does not always mean government spending. In this area, | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
it musicians can use the support of colleagues right across the House, | :02:28. | :02:36. | |
but that -- but particularly those on the Government front bench, the | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
few vital small steps in the first instance will involve convincing the | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
US immigration service to establish a dedicated liaison team for the | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
music industry. They could provide time appointments for visas, so | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
artist can avoid expensive overnight stays in London or Belfast. They | :02:58. | :03:08. | |
could clarify the position on these waivers to avoid inconsistent | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
application. In conclusion, how creative industries are making huge | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
contributor 's. I'm pleased with the work we have done on identifying | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
where support is needed bus fire. I would warmly welcome the engagement | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
of all colleagues and ministers to help put these into practice. So our | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
music industry can continue to inspire, create, and help the | :03:30. | :03:42. | |
imagination of the world. In any discussion of creative industries, | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
it is essential to begin by writing ourselves of the deep complexity and | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
real significance of what this covers. It covers, film making, | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
computer games, fashion and polishing. The creative industries | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
also involve countless mothers of individuals and groups who are | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
active in fields such as art, music, dance, poetry and many other fields. | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
There are those who support the creative industries through there | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
could be as teachers, curators of galleries, event organisers other | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
support roles. All of this adds up to the colourful, diverse and | :04:21. | :04:22. | |
beautiful tapestry that make our lives so in which. I'm sure everyone | :04:23. | :04:29. | |
in this House is ankle for the could be sure they make to our lives. -- | :04:30. | :04:37. | |
for the contribution they make to our lives. | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
The creative industries is whether over ?9 million an hour to the UK | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
economy. It is the fastest growing sector in the UK. It is not | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
sufficient enough for us as holiday-makers to view the creative | :04:54. | :04:55. | |
industries purely in economic times alone. The one thing is the health | :04:56. | :05:07. | |
of the creative industry as importance to this out. -- to this | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
House. Within the University of Dundee, the | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
College of Art is one of the leading articles in the UK, first | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
established in the 19th century. There is a thriving network of | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
studios for artists, designers and architects. As part of the current | :05:30. | :05:39. | |
?1 billion regeneration of the waterfront, Dundee, and all other | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
cities in the UK, was chosen to build a new Victoria and Albert | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
design Museum, which will be completed in two years' time. I | :05:48. | :05:58. | |
invite everyone to come for a visit. Dundee is also well-known as the | :05:59. | :06:00. | |
home of many iconic bestselling children's comics, such as the | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
Beano, the Dandy, the Judy and the Jackie, which is now a West End | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
musical! I recommend everyone see do their earliest opportunity. There is | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
an iconic Trail of iconic sculptures of one iconic characters. In 2014, | :06:19. | :06:33. | |
Dundee was awarded the UNESCO city of design award. I will give way. He | :06:34. | :06:41. | |
has name checked an important number of characters and creations that | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
have emanated from Dundee. I think he has forgotten the Broons. They | :06:44. | :06:56. | |
would be most disgusted for me forgetting to mention the Broons. In | :06:57. | :07:08. | |
addition to all of this, this creative tradition has found a new | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
outlet. Dundee is now an internationally renowned centre for | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
video game development, and the birthplace of some of the biggest | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
names in game history. It offered the first degree in games design in | :07:21. | :07:29. | |
1997. This move was subsequently copied by institutions around the | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
world, and helped Edinburgh predation of Dundee as a centre of | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
excellence for video games. Just to touch on a few examples. In the 90s, | :07:36. | :07:45. | |
the game Fleming 's was created, which sold millions of copies. They | :07:46. | :07:55. | |
also create is Grand Theft Auto, which is now the biggest selling | :07:56. | :08:06. | |
game in the world. They also created Minecraft. The video games industry | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
is vitally important. It has been echoed by Mike co-chair -- by my | :08:12. | :08:25. | |
co-chair. 5000 full-time employees are | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
involved in the mobile game industry. Six to 4% of all of the | :08:30. | :08:39. | |
video games companies were established in the last five years. | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
How do we support these activities? They are so important to the | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
individual well-being and economic prosperity. Artists, designers can | :08:51. | :09:02. | |
musicians, games programmes, are in need of access to funding, advice | :09:03. | :09:03. | |
and financial support. There is a creative partnership, | :09:04. | :09:21. | |
which involves agencies that work together to share intelligence and | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
research on the creative industries, coordinating industries and industry | :09:25. | :09:33. | |
support. In January of this year, Scottish affairs select committee, | :09:34. | :09:42. | |
on which I serve, published an review of creative industries in | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
Scotland. I would like to focus on three key issues that will identify | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
-- that were identified in the report. The qualifying companies had | :09:51. | :10:08. | |
tax incentives. They have been limited use in Scotland. This is | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
partly due to the smaller scale of most creative enterprises in | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
Scotland. Hardly because tax relief does not incentivise industries | :10:16. | :10:34. | |
outside of hubs such as London. I would urge the Minister and his | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
colleagues in the Treasury to treat this issue as a matter of the utmost | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
priority and to give consideration to the possibility that the most | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
effective means of resolving these issues will be to devolve | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
responsibility of tax release for creative industries to the Scottish | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
government. Furthermore, broadcasting in the forms of the | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
BBC, is a fundamental driver for industries in Scotland, as well as a | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
central pillar of our life. There is widespread dissatisfaction with the | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
output of BBC Scotland. There is also in balance with licence fee | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
income of over 320 million pounds generated in Scotland, but a BBC | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
Scotland Budget of less than 200 million. The BBC has been slow to | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
respond to these issues and has been less than transparent in its process | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
of decision-making around them. In the last few days, on the future of | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
public service enquiry, has been published. It recommends that the | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
only effective solution to the mismatch between the aspirations of | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
Scottish people and the respective output service broadcasting is to | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
devolve an appropriate proportion of the overall BBC Budget to Scotland. | :11:47. | :11:54. | |
It must be allowed to schedule progress as it sees fit. I would | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
urge the Minister to cook 's press clear and unequivocal support for | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
this proposal, which has the potential to allow Scotland to | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
become a hub for high-quality television and film output and | :12:08. | :12:09. | |
contribute to an expansion of implement in this field. I share the | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
view that little in the BBC reflects the constitutional settlement with | :12:16. | :12:16. | |
Scotland. Other than areas of intellectual | :12:17. | :12:29. | |
property, the individuals and organisations were largely satisfied | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
with opportunities and benefits that flow from you make the ship -- EU | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
membership. All of this has changed due to the fear and uncertainty | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
created by the EU referendum. This is a troubling situation. Many | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
aspects of creative industries in Scotland are embedded in a cultural | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
European tradition that relies on collaboration with colleagues and | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
this situation requires that the creative industries should have a | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
full representation with the EU and that the needs of creative | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
industries in Scotland should be championed through the presence of | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
members of the Scottish Government. I have talked about the issues and | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
challenges facing the industries in Scotland but I would like to make | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
one final point. Scotland is an outward looking, internationalist | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
and progressive society. A mongrel Laois and -- nation and yet it is | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
distinctive and different and demands to be heard. This is not a | :13:36. | :13:49. | |
0-sum game. Successful broadcasting, film-making, computer games reach | :13:50. | :13:56. | |
out to an international market and do not diminish the significance of | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
London and Manchester. In this, we can all be winners. I congratulate | :14:02. | :14:11. | |
the honourable member for Sunderland Central in initiating this debate | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
and she has chosen an excellent time to be initiating the debate, because | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
creative industries throughout the UK are doing extremely well and I | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
was in Scotland just three weeks ago, going to add a bra and Balmoral | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
but because my sat nav went wrong, I toured the whole of Scotland and it | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
looked pretty good to me and I had a daughter perform at the Edinburgh | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
Festival. Wonderful! They are creative industries in London doing | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
extremely well, but before going onto the main part I wanted share | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
with the House about Southend-on-Sea being an alternative city of | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
culture, I wanted to remind the House that the UK is a global leader | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
in Crete of industries. They promote everything that is great about this | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
country and generate ?8.8 million and our, amazing. The UK's success | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
is ranked number two on the 2016 soft power ranking and third by the | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
2015 GS K Ripper nation brands index which records the positive | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
perceptions consumers have worldwide of individual countries. How good it | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
is to see a star of MP for in this chamber this afternoon. Members of | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
Parliament really do have an interest in this subject. Southend | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
is no exception to the UK's success in Crete if industries. In the | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
upcoming Southend city of alternative culture will exemplify | :15:54. | :16:01. | |
the music and arts. Southend has a consistent record for exhibiting new | :16:02. | :16:03. | |
forward-thinking arts and cultural projects. Net part of the first | :16:04. | :16:13. | |
digital art park in the world and I am delighted that the member visited | :16:14. | :16:22. | |
the park. It was developed by a wonderful arts organisation and | :16:23. | :16:24. | |
transformed into or derelict spaces into vibrant cultural community | :16:25. | :16:35. | |
hubs. It presents a collection of artworks and stories for chalk wall | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
part in Southend. All the works are experienced through a smart device, | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
either iPad, iPhone or android. The collection has five artworks created | :16:45. | :16:53. | |
by artists following an open course and created by Southend School | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
pupils. In addition, the project includes an on-site digital school | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
at metal art. It is equipped with both hardware and software enabling | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
or Andy by artists and a range of digital creative learning within the | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
curriculum. Other projects include the Thames Street, the aim is to | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
celebrate the outstanding cultural contribution of the 40 miles stretch | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
of the iconic Thames Estuary and aren't we lucky to be here in this | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
wonderful place and enjoy all the beautiful River Thames can offer. | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
Working with partners on both the north and south banks, the festival | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
will occur by with the first taking place in September this year and | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
will promote the planned new museum at the Thames Estuary on the banks | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
of the history in Southend where we found a Saxon King buried beneath | :17:49. | :17:57. | |
one of our parks. Southend's contribution to creative industry | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
shows why the UK is an innovation driven economy. We are renowned for | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
breaking convention in our creative industries yet we always do it with | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
professionalism, star and swagger and there are plenty of talented | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
groups in Southend to display these qualities. The Southend Festival, | :18:16. | :18:25. | |
the male voice crier, the South Essex youth Orchestra, the Southend | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
book and arts fair are just a snapshot of the flourishing creative | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
industries we have in Southend and the imminent launch of the | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
alternative city of culture, it is being launched in Southend this | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
Sunday and it's been launched somewhere in the House of Commons | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
next week and what a good thing it is now to have all these wonderful | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
events in the Jubilee room, showing off the creative talents of all | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
parts of the UK. Hull of course are the city of culture and they have a | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
range of main events in line with the seasons. We are going to have | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
one specific theme each month, so it will be very interesting to see how | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
both parts of the country ran their events. We will have a theme every | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
month, one month it will be music, the arts, next, fashion, media, | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
culture, food, architecture, military events and other matters. | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
These creative groups all played their part in how the wider world | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
perceives the United Kingdom as a thriving cultural nation. I hope the | :19:39. | :19:46. | |
House will unite in believing that creative industries should not be | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
daunted. We have touched about the referendum but we have had the | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
referendum as far as Scotland wasn't too happy but I want us to be | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
positive about the outcome. The UK creative industries are still open | :20:01. | :20:07. | |
for business and there are many financial incentives to invest in | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
the UK's creative sector, including tax reliefs to allow productions | :20:12. | :20:13. | |
access to a rebate. Long may Southend continue to be a | :20:14. | :20:37. | |
location where great films, dramas and soap operas are shot and I would | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
be happy to appear in any of them. Even in the post-Brexit world, we | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
now find ourselves in Crete if industries that will continue to | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
thrive and take advantage of the opportunities which are opening up | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
to do business across the world. Those who are uncertain about the | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
regulation of creative industries following our decision to leave the | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
EU I think should be reassured and Alan Minister will do his best to | :21:06. | :21:15. | |
reassured the House. I welcome my honourable friend for culture media | :21:16. | :21:24. | |
and sports but the success of the UK's creative industries is built on | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
the talent which exists in this country, and amazing heritage. The | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
English language, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish and a tax system | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
designed to support and encourage growth in the creative sector. Given | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
that this country is gifted with being creative and has a rich | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
cultural heritage, we can have confidence that there can and will | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
be a bright future for the UK's creative industries. The Southend | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
alternative city of culture 2017 should be a benchmark for showing | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
why it is so important that this Government and any government to | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
invest and provide the necessary intensive is for creative industries | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
to thrive and prosper. -- incentives. Can I congratulate the | :22:16. | :22:25. | |
honourable member for leading this debate. She has made me feel rather | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
guilty in making such an excellent case for Sunderland's bid to be | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
capital of culture, seeing as Bristol also wants to beat it, so I | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
have to put down for an adjournment debate because today I want to focus | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
on the impact leaving the EU could have on our creative industries and | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
what the Minister will do to deliver on his promise to give the arts a | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
voice. A survey found 96% of members voted to stay in the EU with 84% | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
saying EU membership was important to the future. Before the vote, the | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
prospect of leaving was variously described as a nightmare, artistic | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
isolation, and a huge creative step backwards. A joint letter from 250 | :23:15. | :23:21. | |
actors, artists, musicians and writers praising EU funding was | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
dismissed by the Brexit camp as the concern of luvvies. If the minister | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
was in his place, I know he is not one to dismiss the luvvies so | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
lightly. He would agree that it is important that issues such as access | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
to markets, freedom of movement, intellectual property protection and | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
EU funding for the creative sector are considered during the Brexit | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
negotiations. I want to name check Laura Smith for an excellent article | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
on pitchfork .com which has been the source of quite a few of the quotes | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
I will mention. On access to EU markets, the value of services | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
exported by the UK creative industries in 2014 was nearly 20 | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
billion, an increase of nearly 11%. The EU is a 56% our largest export | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
market and currently we can trade tariff and barrier free across 28 | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
countries. We have unrestricted access to 560 million potential | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
customers and before we entered the common market, there were tariffs. | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
If we want to send products over to Europe and to give one example, the | :24:35. | :24:41. | |
vinyl trade, the majority of vinyl we buy is made in plants in mainland | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
Europe. The costs could escalate both at the point of manufacture and | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
sale and the real concern this will have on small and independent | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
businesses is that small margins make a huge effect on their | :24:59. | :25:12. | |
survival. As my co-founder said, as a nation, switching our focus from | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
trading with Europe to trading with Brazil, China and India does not | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
work for the music industry because we are making small inroads there. | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
They have such a different pop market and strong historic music | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
identity of their own. Copyright and IP issues are incredibly important | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
to the sector. There have been three European directives protecting the | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
IP rights of artists and we discussed some of this yesterday in | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
the Westminster Hall debate. The EU's copyright regime has been | :25:49. | :25:57. | |
created for -- critical. There are worries the life of artists will get | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
worse without the copyright protection is the EU provides. I | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
know many in the industry have felt the EU is much more willing and able | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
than the UK to take on the big technology companies which have much | :26:10. | :26:17. | |
less respect. Some countries in Europe are perceived by rights | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
holders as being more benevolent towards them. France being the best | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
example because it holds intellectual property in such a high | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
regard. It is fair that the UK Government has not been as war more | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
receptive as some of the others in European countries. The European | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
Commission has been far more sympathetic to rights holders than | :26:41. | :26:41. | |
the UK Government. Free movement is a massive concern. | :26:42. | :26:49. | |
There is no doubt that free movement across mainland Europe has made | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
touring easy and less-expensive for British artists and musicians. | :26:53. | :26:59. | |
Access to locations has benefit our thriving TV and movie industries. | :27:00. | :27:09. | |
These issues are worried that Brexit book have an impact. We know this | :27:10. | :27:17. | |
will create a barrier for musicians and artists. The honourable member | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
mentioned the horrible difficulties that these issues have touring the | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
US. Some have to cancel gigs and even hold tours because visas are | :27:30. | :27:38. | |
not ready in time. Getting visas is a minefield, and it costs a lot of | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
money, and is the reason a lot of people do not get to tour America. A | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
large part of the fund goes towards helping bands get to America. Are we | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
going to be at the point where they will have to start a fund to get | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
people into Europe? That is a good question. If it gets more difficult | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
to export things the UK is good at, what investment will be needed to | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
showcase British bands abroad in future. Colin Roberts goes on to | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
say, not only will our acts struggle, added is the small act | :28:10. | :28:16. | |
that will really struggle, there are to assume iPod come to the UK | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
either. As the coordinator of Live Europe, which provides a powerful | :28:22. | :28:29. | |
European -- a platform for European act says, you cannot work on a | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
European music project without the UK. Play in the UK is the step that | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
allows small bands to get big. Will the UK still be part of that if we | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
leave the U? -- if we leave the EU? Cross-border creative collaboration | :28:44. | :28:57. | |
and the movement of talent across the EU is important. Areas with | :28:58. | :29:13. | |
especially high proportions of EU and international formers include | :29:14. | :29:19. | |
dance, opera, circus, video games and the music industry. Brexit could | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
cause real problems for Sadler 's Wells and our orchestras. We debated | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
this yesterday, but I would reaffirm the need for real reassurance from | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
the Government for EU National is currently living and working in the | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
creative sector, that they should be allowed to work in the UK. That | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
works both ways, with UK artist working in the EU. Would Brexit mean | :29:44. | :29:50. | |
that they would have to come home? There is uncertainty in the sector | :29:51. | :29:52. | |
about the how the UK will compensate for lack of access to EU funding. I | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
will give one example. The creative Europe and has supported 228 | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
organisations and individual companies, and the Cinema | :30:06. | :30:14. | |
dissolution of films in other countries. If the UK leads the EU, | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
does the Minister share the concern that in all likelihood, this funding | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
will not be available to the UK? Finally, many of us had been upset | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
about what about on June 23 says about written to the rest of Europe | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
and to the world. I hope it can fight away to the next few years | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
which means we have not pulled up the drawbridge. We try to encourage | :30:37. | :30:48. | |
a positive feel about Europe. Music, travelling... What people are | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
especially the younger generations, need today is to share some things | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
simple and positive together. Live music can do this. In conclusion, | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
but the Minister say today, in relation to the EU unit, which civil | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
servant will be appointed to it? When will he or she joined | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
negotiations question on which issues will they be? What | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
organisational negotiations have been put in place for Brexit | :31:21. | :31:29. | |
negotiations. What seemed like a lack of contingency planning and | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
vision is causing considerable uncertainty. I have the Minister | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
today can give us a much-needed reassurance. I also hope that, over | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
the long term, we can consider what role arts and culture can play in | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
those parts of the UK highlighted by the referendum result which don't | :31:47. | :31:49. | |
feel listened to, Deauville Partners the UK success story -- don't feel | :31:50. | :31:58. | |
part of the UK success story. It is so important to identity. Look at | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
cities like Manchester, Liverpool or Bristol. It is not just about | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
identity as a place, but at about your identity as a person, feeling | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
part of things, feeling proud of things, feeling good about yourself | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
as a result. I hope we can find our way through the Brexit minefield and | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
emerge with a more positive story to tell. | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
I congratulate the members who have secured the debate, particularly my | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
honourable friends from Dundee West and Edinburgh West. I think it has | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
come at a timely moment, given the other debates that they complies | :32:40. | :32:41. | |
this week in Westminster Hall, and the fact that a number of the | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
industry bodies had been having their annual receptions on the | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
terrace and the function rooms and elsewhere. On Monday, there was a | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
recession in the members dining room. Last night, my overall friend | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
from Dundee West and several members that are here today were in the | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
National Liberal club for the UK interactive entertainment reception. | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
That being slightly less interactive surroundings than the video games | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
that were on display. Festival season, as other member 's have | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
said, is well under way across the country. I have a large number of | :33:19. | :33:26. | |
personal and constituency interest which I will cover in my speech. I | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
want to look at the scope of what we mean by the creative industries, the | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
vast scope, as other members have touched upon. I want to look at the | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
policy challenges and opportunities that have been covered in quite a | :33:42. | :33:49. | |
bit of detail. By definition, I think straight industries are | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
forever changing and renewing themselves, and adapting and | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
evolving. So we have traditional areas of music, art, writing, dance | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
and so one. It is important to instead of the impact of these. The | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
growing importance of online and digital forums, both for accessing | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
creativity and as a source of creativity is becoming increasingly | :34:14. | :34:16. | |
important. My friend from Dundee West has already spoken about the | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
huge importance of the computer game industry. There has been a 600% | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
increase in another games companies operating in Scotland in the last | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
five years. Yesterday, at the Newquay reception, I was fascinated | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
to learn more about the increasing importance of what they call the | :34:35. | :34:41. | |
sports, which were just called computer games in my days. | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
Professional or competitive computer gaming as an industry. In July, | :34:46. | :34:57. | |
Glasgow, the Scottish centre, will welcome the Resonate festival, and | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
people from all over the world will come together to watch other people, | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
real leaders in their fields, who have invested their time in | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
demonstrating their skills in a whole range of different sports or | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
interactive computer games. My honourable friend from Dundee West | :35:18. | :35:30. | |
mentioned Lemmings. I do recognise this is a consensual debate, so I | :35:31. | :35:39. | |
would go for too far down that line. CADDIE: Are attracting millions of | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
followers every year. That figure will over take the number of people | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
who watch the US National Football League. -- eSports is attracting | :35:48. | :35:58. | |
millions of followers. I want to make a pitch for Scott | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
and's another one craft product, the water of life. I think that the new | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
and expanded to distilleries that we're seeing coming online. It is a | :36:08. | :36:16. | |
unique and creative process, and Glasgow has its own distillery | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
company. The gin that they are producing comes from the word for a | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
creator, a poet. I thought that was worth noting as well. Glasgow, is | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
omitted in my maiden speech is the home and focus of so many of these | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
industries. There is nothing in Glasgow that is on the scale of the | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
Anna Brett International Festival. Over the years, it has ranged from a | :36:42. | :36:48. | |
benefit of different designations. -- the Edinburgh International | :36:49. | :36:57. | |
Festival. When it became the European capital of culture, that | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
created a renaissance of the benefits are seen today. We have | :37:02. | :37:09. | |
gone on to be the city of architecture and design in 1999 and | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
in 2008, we were designated as a UNESCO city of music, one of only | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
nine in the world. The city is a real musical melting pot. It has | :37:19. | :37:26. | |
produced countless artists. We're not allowed to read out lists, which | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
is a good thing because I could reel off a list of artists who have | :37:32. | :37:40. | |
emerged from Glasgow music scene. It has provided the stage for bands to | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
break out into the Scottish UK and wider European scene. My honourable | :37:48. | :38:00. | |
friend has the Glasgow Hydro. She can maybe intervene and test some of | :38:01. | :38:13. | |
the news. My brother-in-law's band had their debut in Glasgow a few | :38:14. | :38:15. | |
weeks ago. I have got the bandstand, and I look | :38:16. | :38:24. | |
forward to seeing Tom Jones there in a few weeks. Courtiers have just | :38:25. | :38:34. | |
finished their dance project. It was a bit of light relief before the EU | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
referendum, I went to one of the performances there. There is the | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
Celtic connections festival with global brand recognition. The real | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
contributor to some of the stats we mentioned earlier. 1.4 million | :38:51. | :38:57. | |
people attending music events in 2015 in Glasgow. Sustaining over a | :38:58. | :39:07. | |
thousand jobs in the city. There are other creative sectors as well. I | :39:08. | :39:14. | |
would just like to tell the member that next Monday and Tuesday, the | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
select committee is visiting Glasgow to take evidence for our forthcoming | :39:19. | :39:29. | |
culture enquiry, and the creative industries was the copyright is very | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
reported to sustain creativity -- very important. It backs the | :39:35. | :39:44. | |
industry. From the literary site... I'm not sure whether he will move on | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
to a rival to the Edinburgh Festival. Would he agree that for | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
lots of people who have not got great commercial backing, it is | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
important to sustain creativity and the roots evaporated industries that | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
people have protection from unfair contract terms so that they can | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
benefit from the fruits of their work question at the CC a role for | :40:08. | :40:15. | |
the Government -- does he see a role for the Government in that? | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
When we look at the online at Digital expansion, and I'm aware | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
there was a debate about some of that, these are all issues that are | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
being challenged, his committee is welcome to Glasgow. If they would | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
like to have some suggestions, we would be happy to provide them. | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
There are things that we as inevitable parliamentarians can do | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
as well. In my own office, I make space available on the wall for | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
rotating local artist to exhibit their own works. In the past year, | :40:49. | :40:56. | |
had Chris Stephens, but -- not the one that presents the south-west. | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
Michelle Campbell, who does geometric renderings. And John | :41:02. | :41:08. | |
Martin, who hatches characters, including the current and former | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
first ministers. There are a range of ways in which we can support our | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
creative industries. It is important that local authorities do the same. | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
The West End Festival in Glasgow this year was curtailed because of a | :41:21. | :41:29. | |
lack of funding and support. The parade was unable to take place. I | :41:30. | :41:32. | |
was pleased that the Scottish government agreed that the meadow | :41:33. | :41:40. | |
and the children's Wood should not be designated for housing because | :41:41. | :41:42. | |
one of the members made a point about the importance of children and | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
young people. It is a space where they can have creative and wild | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
play. It is a board and we predict those bases, especially in urban | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
areas, so young people can nurture their own creative talent. There is | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
responsible at Heathrow the devolved governments as well. -- there is | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
responsibility for the devolved governments as well. The greatest | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
unknown is Brexit. Many mothers have touched on that. I agree with every | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
word that the honourable member for Bristol East said. I don't feel the | :42:13. | :42:13. | |
need to repeat those. Specialist institutions in Glasgow | :42:14. | :42:25. | |
also have a great deal of risk involved with their students from | :42:26. | :42:32. | |
Brexit because at the moment, there is a unique moulting jazz, | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
classical, all kinds of things in the mix and that is under threat if | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
we are not as an international institution. Yes, absolutely. The | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
artistic and musical community are very concerned about the impact that | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
Brexit will have, especially on the free movement of people and the | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
ability of people to come to festivals as artists or | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
participants. I am aware other members are keen to speak, but I | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
think the point about nurturing future generations is hugely | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
important, especially in the context of the Brexit result. We have a duty | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
to open and expand our cultural horizons and I hope today's debate | :43:20. | :43:28. | |
go some way towards that. I must congratulate the members who have | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
been involved in bringing this very important debate to the House. I | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
would like to highlight creative industries that the city of | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
Edinburgh, the world's first UNESCO city of literature, is renowned for, | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
writing and publishing. Books might be changing as the electronic world | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
takes over but one thing remains contents, the creation of new works | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
all waste needs -- always needs writers. We cameraman to size the | :44:01. | :44:09. | |
image of the artist in the garage reheating cruel or porridge for | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
sustenance but it is no way for someone to live and we should be | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
concerned. The authors licensing and collecting society highlights their | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
economic contribution. ?84 billion of gross value added in 2014, a | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
year-on-year increase of 8.9%. Publish material and ?4.4 billion | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
last year, three quarters of that in books and boosting the balance of | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
payments with 43% of publisher sales being exports. Serious economic | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
benefits. 254 million books were exported last year. Laid down, they | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
would go up more than halfway round the world. And then there are online | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
journals, E books and other digital contact and where would the games | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
industry be without talented storyteller 's? We must support our | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
writers. But there is another important reason to support them. We | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
need writers. We need artists of all trades because art is what makes | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
life and writers are special. Without them there would be no new | :45:22. | :45:28. | |
books, no new plays, short stories, poetry, no great speeches for party | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
leaders, no new films and no new dramas on television. Coronation | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
Street, East Enders and River city would judder to a halt and time | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
would be up for Doctor Who and outlander with their welcome | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
contributions to the local economy and to tourism lost. Writers filled | :45:46. | :45:52. | |
the space around us with art. They create our environment and they | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
enhance our lives, they should get the chance of earning a living. Some | :45:56. | :46:03. | |
make it big like Irving Welsh and has had very substantial success. | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
Doing it the hard way and learning his trade while working other jobs. | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
He was helped by Kevin Williamson who lives in Leith and was a one-man | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
dynamo in the early 1990s. His efforts change the face of Scottish | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
literature. Without him we may not have had Irving Welsh, or Tony | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
Davidson. Rebel Inc altered the direction of Scottish writing. | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
Irving Welsh is an exception. Most make only a very Buddhist income. | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
Writers are important but we don't support them enough. We have also as | :46:40. | :46:49. | |
has been mentioned, created a less hole for environment for the | :46:50. | :46:51. | |
creative industries by voting to leave the EU. Like other industries, | :46:52. | :46:58. | |
cutting them off from a potential workforce and potential clients must | :46:59. | :47:01. | |
be damaging and they are not the only things that would be lost. As | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
an example, creative Edinburgh is engaged in a two-year project funded | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
by the European Commission, partnering creative hubs around | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
Europe with the European business network to promote and support the | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
creative economy. That project may be safe on the school 's of Brexit | :47:22. | :47:28. | |
but would would replace such projects in the Little Britain of | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
the future? My constituency is full of extraordinarily talented people | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
like novelist of Al McDermott. Artists Ruth Nicol, creatives - | :47:38. | :47:49. | |
Leith late, Sid curator, and more than 11,000 people employed in | :47:50. | :47:57. | |
design. We see the computer gaming industry already a major part of the | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
Dundee economy, becoming a serious and growing part of Edinburgh's | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
economy. These creative hubs attract people from all over these islands | :48:08. | :48:14. | |
and from abroad. Creative businesses flourish in my constituency. | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
Independent art galleries, shops that sell handmade and unique | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
products, working in the fields of construction will -- conceptual tea | :48:22. | :48:32. | |
art. Will the mint in court call? Will be exchange of ideas slow? | :48:33. | :48:39. | |
Creativity is stunted and output shrinks if this happens. Artistic | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
viability becomes strained and economic benefits are reduced, | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
perhaps extinguished. We need to stimulate the creative industries | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
and I look forward to hearing the Minister's comments about how they | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
will propose to do that in this current situation. The Chancellor | :48:56. | :49:01. | |
could start with greater and better targeted tax breaks for the creative | :49:02. | :49:08. | |
industries and devolving control of these two Scotland would be | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
extremely helpful. Then he can loosen the austerity news to see if | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
the support that central and local government offered the arts can be | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
restored. Since we're heading down the EU exit ramp, we must secure the | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
flow of people that make our creative industries viable. We need | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
immigration policies that will bring people here, let them study, work | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
and make their homes here. We need easier immigration and more of it. | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
The creative industries need more government support for exports, help | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
to open markets and guaranteed payments. If arms exporters can get | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
it, why not creatives? We need creative industries high up on the | :49:51. | :49:58. | |
list. These creatives are making a fine fist of it, it is about time | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
they got more recognition and assistance. Can I begin by | :50:02. | :50:11. | |
congratulating the members who obtained this very important debate. | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
I would like to address the role of the university sector in the | :50:18. | :50:20. | |
creative industries and in doing that I am indebted to assistance to | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
University Scotland and Edinburgh Napier University which is situated | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
in my constituency. Scotland has always been a creative nation and | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
its universities have been at the heart of that. Scottish creativity | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
punches far above its weight on the global stage. World leading talent | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
has emerge from Glasgow School of Art, including Turner prize winners | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
such as Duncan Campbell. Acclaimed stars of stage and screen. And we | :50:52. | :51:00. | |
are proud of the literary success of novelists such as Ian Rankin and | :51:01. | :51:12. | |
also Scotland's previous poet Laureate who was a writer in | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
residence at Duncan College of Art and the University of college of | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
Glasgow. And the video game of the lemmings which was invented by a | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
Scottish graduate and which first put the great city of Dundee on the | :51:30. | :51:36. | |
map for computer games. My honourable friend from Glasgow North | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
was an in suggesting that members of the opposition could be described as | :51:42. | :51:48. | |
lemmings at present. It was amusing to watch some of the Brexiteers | :51:49. | :51:57. | |
scrambling in the face of the EU debate. Fashion graduate Rachel | :51:58. | :52:04. | |
Barrett were chosen and warm by Lady Gaga. Edinburgh Napier University | :52:05. | :52:11. | |
prepares graduates for employment in a significant number of creative | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
industries. They do that through undergraduate and postgraduate | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
degrees and programmes in the School of arts and creative industries for | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
the school of computer and business School and Edinburgh Napier engages | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
with industry and professional bodies through knowledge exchange | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
activities, continuing development programmes and providing advice and | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
support. In particular, Edinburgh Napier posts screen Academy | :52:38. | :52:42. | |
Scotland, a joint venture with the University of Edinburgh and is | :52:43. | :52:44. | |
recognised as a centre of excellence in film practice and is one of just | :52:45. | :52:53. | |
three skill sets film academies in the UK. I stand to intervene on her | :52:54. | :53:01. | |
as a fellow graduate of the University of Edinburgh. I wonder | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
whether she could tell me whether she thinks it is something in the | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
water in Edinburgh that helped create these creative industries or | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
whether it is the hard work of the University that has concentrated on | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
the creative industries and achieve so much for them? Addenbrooke now | :53:19. | :53:27. | |
hosts more than one university -- Edinburgh. I think possibly it is | :53:28. | :53:40. | |
due to those universities but also due to an atmosphere across the | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
education sector which fosters interest in music and the arts and | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
we are very privileged to host the greatest international festival in | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
the world. Certainly growing up in Addenbrooke, getting to it and | :53:54. | :54:00. | |
events at the festival was the sort of opportunity that not all children | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
get. In my constituency reach right to ensure that the Edinburgh | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
Festival reaches out to the suburbs beyond the city centre and that has | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
resulted in some vibrant arts activity. To get back to Adam Brett | :54:16. | :54:26. | |
Napier which is up the road from Wester Hailes, many students and | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
graduates have achieved considerable success and recognition and they | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
build on this to achieve strong careers. The students work readily | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
features at International film festivals, including Berlin, Venice, | :54:42. | :54:50. | |
Cannes, Beijing hads and Edinburgh. Their music students have also been | :54:51. | :54:57. | |
awarded or short road state for national and international prizes. | :54:58. | :55:06. | |
Very importantly, Edinburgh Napier offers businesses opportunities to | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
link up with a diverse range of creative students for freelance | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
assignments and this ensures the students develop their skills within | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
a business environment and the businesses themselves benefit from a | :55:18. | :55:25. | |
professional output. The success of screen Academy Scotland demonstrates | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
how universities can support the continued professional development | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
of those working in the industry and if I can mention a few graduates of | :55:34. | :55:39. | |
Edinburgh Napier, the film director Lynne Ramsay, the photographer David | :55:40. | :55:45. | |
Eustace and Colin Baxter and the broadcaster Katrina Shearer. The | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
creative industries thrive on talent and they are dependent on a well | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
educated workforce and universities are a rich source of that. The DC MS | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
published analysis showing that more than half of jobs, 60% of jobs in | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
the creative industry last year were filled by people with at least a | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
degree or equivalent qualification and that is compared to about 30% of | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
all jobs in the UK and there is often a view that creative talent is | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
something that is innate, but I would suggest that is not the case. | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
Talent must be nurtured and developed and that is what higher | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
education does. Scottish universities collaborate with | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
creative companies and industries bodies in the design of courses. But | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
there is a problem with the skills gap and it is that issue I would | :56:42. | :56:42. | |
like the Minister to address. Skill set research is showing that | :56:43. | :56:51. | |
28% of companies in the treated and media industries show skill gaps, | :56:52. | :56:58. | |
with a higher proportion in Scotland. It is interesting to note | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
that only 12% of those studying creative industry related subjects | :57:06. | :57:20. | |
in Scotland are from Scotland. What this means is that Scotland needs to | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
retain its creative graduates, regardless of where they are from. | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
We need to encourage people who have come to Scotland to study the | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
creative industries to stay in Scotland after they graduate. The | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
enterprising and ambitious and will continue to not only to the Scottish | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
economy by broadly to the development of Scotland. It is | :57:44. | :57:50. | |
important that the needs of the creative industries and the broader | :57:51. | :57:53. | |
creative and knowledge economy is not lost through the post study... | :57:54. | :58:12. | |
I fear that if the Brexit vote is to be implemented, this problem will | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
only get worse as a result. It also affects students coming from the | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
European Union. I thank her for giving way. She is making a good | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
case about the visas for students studying in Scotland. The visiting | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
expert was visiting Glasgow on holiday and wanted to give his | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
expertise to some of the students at Glasgow School of Art, who had to | :58:40. | :58:46. | |
refuse because it had on invitations for their own beta status. Then is | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
to be a lot more flexibility in allowing people to come and share | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
their expertise and talent without the necessity of formal visas in | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
situations such as that. I agree. Every good country requires some | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
sort of immigration policy, but we need to look at what is of benefit | :59:04. | :59:09. | |
to our country and economy. That ability in visas is clearly | :59:10. | :59:20. | |
desirable. -- flexibility. The starting salary threshold in the | :59:21. | :59:27. | |
creative sector is based on average sectors in other sectors. People in | :59:28. | :59:35. | |
the creative industries at the start of their career will earn less than | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
that. They tend not to be in full-time appointment, the freelance | :59:40. | :59:56. | |
as a waiter or barista part-time. There is not that minimum earnings | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
threshold elsewhere. The organisation of universities | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
Scotland has been making a positive case for a more competitive post | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
study work Visa for Scotland for a number of years. It will be of | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
benefit to universities both as employers and recruiters of | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
students. There is support for a change in immigration policy in | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
Scotland amongst university principals, staff and students, | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
amongst business leaders and across all political parties in the | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
Scottish Parliament, including the Scottish and Unionist party. It was | :00:28. | :00:36. | |
found that the current rules for students studying in southern to | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
remain in Scotland are to restrictive. In order to support the | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
creative industries in Scotland and beyond, throughout the UK, the | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
Government needs to be introduce post study work visas. I would urge | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
the Minister to addresses issue in his summing up today. Thank you. | :00:56. | :01:03. | |
It is a great pleasure to be summing up for the Scottish National Party | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
on what has been a fine debate. There has been some sort of cultural | :01:07. | :01:16. | |
geographic tour de force. There are cultural delights of the other | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
cities around here as well. We are all enriched, learning about the | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
great cultural assets of all these different parts of the UK. I declare | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
my interest as a former recording artist, I refer to my entries in the | :01:30. | :01:40. | |
register of interests. It is always fantastic to come to these debates | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
and see how many more people are taking an interest in the creative | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
industries, and the things that underpin it. I think it is worth | :01:49. | :01:56. | |
mining ourselves again, and we have at members, particularly the | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
openness of the debate, who I congratulate. I think it is worst | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
mining ourselves of just what a fantastic thing that we do in this | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
country. The UK is the largest cultural becoming in the world, | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
relative to GDP. We are the largest producer of recorded music in | :02:17. | :02:24. | |
Europe, second largest in the world. It was fantastic to hear from a | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
honourable friend from Edinburgh North, talking about the writers. | :02:31. | :02:41. | |
The creative industries is growing tries as fast as the wider economy. | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
It was the Minister I saw who picked up we are now worth ?20 million an | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
hour to the UK economy. -- ?10 million an hour. The way I like to | :02:54. | :03:03. | |
look at this, and I note that there is this incredible growth within our | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
creative sector, there are so many other sectors flat-lining. We have | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
practically we industrialise this nation on the imagination, the | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
creativity and talent that people of this country have. What a wonderful | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
way to grow our economy, based on that particular virtue. I don't know | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
if he's aware that the artists studios in Glasgow are so successful | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
they are having to expand and expand. I went to visit one and they | :03:36. | :03:44. | |
are planning on expanding. Will he support further support from | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
government to expand studios within the city? Absolutely. What we are | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
all seeing and experience in Conwy have heard that most the | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
contributions, and the worthwhile interventions, every constituency | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
and every committee now has some form of creative hub, providing | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
highly skilled jobs, eating opportunities young people and | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
implying people and encouraging the cultural enrichment of our country. | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
I pay to beat to the wonderful work that has been done in her | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
constituency and because it and seas of so many more members of the House | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
today. -- and the constituencies of so many more members. What the | :04:27. | :04:33. | |
creative industries do is provide a conduit that allows the enrichment | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
of our nation and our communities ultra-lean. -- culturally. We are | :04:37. | :04:47. | |
good at producing this stuff. We are also successful because we managed | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
to provide the conditions that allowed this talent to develop and | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
grow. I have always said, our major responsible at ease as legislators | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
and murmurs of this House is too dry to create the conditions that allow | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
the optimum environment that those who are artists, who invest in | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
talent, and those who build our creative industries, we have got to | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
create the right conditions that allow the sector to develop, grow | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
and succeed. Up to this point, we have managed to provide frameworks | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
that allow those creative industries to grow. There are certain things | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
you have to put in place to have a successful creative industry sector. | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
Some of them are fiscal, some are at the disposal of this government, and | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
we have heard about the difference in some of the tax reliefs in | :05:38. | :05:45. | |
certain sectors, especially in video games, and work on rising -- and | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
recognising that we can work on those. We do make sure there are | :05:51. | :05:58. | |
funds available for these things to grow. There are things we can do | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
with incentivising them to ensure we can create that optimal environment. | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
There are others that are more difficult to secure and achieve, | :06:13. | :06:14. | |
this is something that I want to address with my points. To insure | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
that those artists who are prepared to invest their talents are properly | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
rewarded for their investments of talent that they make. We must | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
continually strive to make sure that that is always the case, and all of | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
this wonderful activity that we see, those who produce it rewarded | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
properly for the work they produce. We need to ensure the intellectual | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
property rights of those involved in our credit sector are all race | :06:47. | :06:55. | |
respected -- always respected. It is part of the economy which is fast | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
changing, developing all the time and open to development in | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
technology. We are seeing that in the migration onto it ties -- onto | :07:05. | :07:18. | |
digitisation. Winnie to beware of the demands and needs of the | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
creative economy and sector. It is true, even though this is a huge | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
success story, and we can see the current abuse it makes to our | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
economy, it is still the case that so many still struggle to be | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
properly rewarded for their efforts. We have to decide a properly | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
functioning digital market which enables creators and rights holders | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
to secure the full value of their works online. It has to be said | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
again that this market has been distorted by some of the tech giants | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
that we experience out there. I'm thinking about Google and YouTube, | :07:55. | :08:04. | |
which act as gateways to some of the content. They make it difficult for | :08:05. | :08:12. | |
those who are creating to be rewarded. At some point, we really | :08:13. | :08:23. | |
have to get on top of how they make such a big impact. So often, | :08:24. | :08:32. | |
searches on Google and other big tech companies still direct Bubba | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
Watson sites that are either illegal or do not reward the artists and | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
these issues properly. That is something that must now stop. This | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
helps facilitate the worries about the value gap between rising | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
creative consumption and decreasing revenues which undermine revenues of | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
those involved in this. I'm thinking mainly about the streaming sites. We | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
had a helpful debate yesterday. Several people spoke about the | :09:02. | :09:03. | |
remuneration of artists online. We have a look at some of the issues. | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
I'm sure the Minister took away another point yesterday. He | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
recognises the valuable in shaping the debate. Someone is growing rich | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
from the crate of endeavour from our artists -- the creative endeavour of | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
our artists, but it is not the artists! Der parasite Company is | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
coming into one little more than who have algorithms and restore this | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
content you are growing very, very rich on the back of the people of | :09:34. | :09:41. | |
this country. -- who are growing very rich. | :09:42. | :09:50. | |
Lastly, I have to turn to the issue of the European Union debate. I | :09:51. | :09:58. | |
really enjoyed the remarks from the honourable lady from Bristol East. | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
She was absolutely spot on. This is a potential catastrophe for our | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
creative industries. I don't think we could... This is really serious | :10:08. | :10:15. | |
for our creative sector, if we are taking out of the European Union. We | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
have heard all of the issues about the single market, about how we | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
managed to get these wonderful products place to products within | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
the European Union without further tariffs, and that impact it will | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
have. There is also movement of people. One of the reasons that our | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
creative industries are so successful, and why one -- why | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
London is the creative hub of the world is that London has been able | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
to draw and attract talent from the European Union, uninhibited about | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
any concerns that these arrangements. It will be a real | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
concern about what happens to the people who are employed in the | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
creative sector, particularly in cities like London and an abrupt, | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
who are dependent on talent from overseas. # like London and | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
Edinburgh. We won't be part, might be part of | :11:08. | :11:19. | |
conversations about this, and how we do that. The minister said we could | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
do something about being able to discuss this with France and Germany | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
and perhaps a proxy for observations about the digital single market. If | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
we leave Europe, we will be extruded from this and we will have no say in | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
this whatsoever. Most of our copyright roars have been | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
incorporated into UK law, so don't need to concern ourselves too much | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
about the protection of artists and writers and creators, because that | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
has now been subsumed. There is a debate going on about innovations | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
and new measures concerning our copyright laws. Again, we will be | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
excluded from those, which will be a massive detriment to our credit | :11:58. | :11:58. | |
industries. It was touched on by the honourable | :11:59. | :12:09. | |
member from Bristol. It is coming out of something like Europe and | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
what that does to us psychologically, where it leaves us | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
culturally. Music, works of culture, things we enjoy, it is all about | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
sharing, working community. We have lost something quite profound about | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
how we talk about ourselves as a nation, how we shared this wonderful | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
thing we have in terms of all this culture we provide. It is like we | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
have stepped aside and walked away from our partners and that will have | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
a very profound impact and effect psychological effect on our artists | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
up and down this country and I don't know how we recover from this and I | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
don't know how we start to address this, but you can sense the | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
depression within our artistic and creative community. I hosted a | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
meeting and speaking to people, all they were talking about was this and | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
the impact and depression this has put into the sector and we will have | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
to think about ways about how we try to help this sector and that comes | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
to the Minister. That will be his job and responsibility. The | :13:25. | :13:32. | |
Secretary of State who went against almost 99% he is supposed to | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
represent in the creative sector who wanted to remain in the EU, he has | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
to try and assign the way we go forward. He has the Digital economy | :13:42. | :13:51. | |
Bill, what he needs to do is reassure everybody in this sector | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
that he will try to offset some of the difficulties that will be done | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
when we leave the EU. There is not much he can do about immigration but | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
he can speak to colleagues and reassure them. The Digital economy | :14:07. | :14:15. | |
is great. It ensures we have universal access to broadband and I | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
am grateful for the inclusion in IP rights which will save online crime | :14:23. | :14:32. | |
-- say online crime will be the same as in the off-line market. It will | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
be a big job now to ensure that we do get to a place where we can start | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
to rebuild some of the confidence that has taken such a heavy knock | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
over the course of the past few weeks. Loftily, I am sure the | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
Minister saw this fine report referred to a few times and that was | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
the creative industries in Scotland and we were delighted we have spent | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
so much time in the city of Dundee and what has underpinned the success | :15:04. | :15:10. | |
of the creative economy. I was disappointed in the response and I | :15:11. | :15:17. | |
thought the Minister suggested we would secure membership of the | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
creative industries Council which again has been turned down. We were | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
disappointed there was not a recognition about how tax relief in | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
the creative sector across the whole of the UK. I urge him to look at it | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
again. This has been a fantastic debate. I wish everybody well in | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
terms of any competitions they may be in for various cities of culture. | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
It was fantastic learning about all the cultural activities going on. | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
This is an important sector for our economy. It is up to us to redesign | :15:53. | :16:04. | |
a way forward. May I congratulate my honourable friend for Sunderland | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
Central on securing this debate. And for her excellent and very | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
interesting speech which set out a lot of fascinating facts, | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
particularly about her constituency. When I was four years old, we lived | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
next door to some people from Sunderland and I thought it was a | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
country. It is a very fine place with the rich culture and history. I | :16:29. | :16:35. | |
also congratulate those other honourable members from both sides | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
of the chamber for supporting my honourable friend in supporting the | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
debate and the members who have made such thoughtful contributions. I | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
have to make my own contribution today but I should say I have a | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
passionate and long-standing interest in the creative industries, | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
most especially music of which this country is a world leader. As I said | :17:00. | :17:10. | |
in the Westminster debate yesterday, the Minister will be responding I | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
know, I was a part-time jazz musician in my youth as well as a | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
member of the musicians union and the union has provided some support | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
to my constituency party in past elections. I have also said I | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
secured my first adjournment debate some 18 years ago on the subject of | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
public funding for jazz which was and remains far too low but funding | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
public for the arts is vital across the board and perhaps it is only the | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
commercially successful field of popular music that can be | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
self-sustaining, but even there, online rip-offs is making inroads | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
into their incomes. If I start with music, we in Britain are | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
astonishingly good. We have several of the finest orchestras and many of | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
the finest classical these issues. I refer back to some 35 years ago when | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
a European youth Orchestra was formed, auditions were held across | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
Europe and is the best musicians had been chosen, all of the chairs would | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
have been filled by young British musicians. Half the seats were | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
allocated to the British and others shared with other European nations. | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
Britain has been a dominant force for decades from the Beatles to | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
Adele, we destroyed the world with an understanding -- ending stream of | :18:30. | :18:42. | |
talent. Music is about harmonious sounds which do not require | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
translation and when it comes to melody, harmony and rhythm, we can | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
match the best. I returned to jazz where again we have produced | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
Britain's musicians and superb music for many decades. For some 15 years, | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
I was a member of the National youth Jazz Orchestra and how seen scores | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
of breathtakingly great musicians passed through its ranks. This is a | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
music I know only too well and know how these good musicians are. Amy | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
Whitehouse sung with us in her teens. -- Amy Whitehouse. I have | :19:19. | :19:31. | |
over indulge in my musical interest so far, but Britain also has great | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
success in other fields. We continue to make some of the finest films | :19:36. | :19:43. | |
studios, actors, directors, technicians bring a substantial | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
revenue as well as entertaining, educating and informing us all. In | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
theatre we draw in millions of tourists from across the world, | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
especially to London to watch our great actors perform in top-class | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
productions. There has been a recent British boom it even in dance | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
choreography and in all styles. In broadcasting and radio and | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
television, ours is the best in the world and drama and documentary | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
exports are money spinners. I once had the misfortune of watching the | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
Olympic Games on holiday in a foreign country and the presentation | :20:22. | :20:30. | |
was abysmal. I could continue to wax lyrically about our creative | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
industries and there are some fields I have not covered, for which I have | :20:34. | :20:41. | |
to apologise but we have superb museums, a great heritage sector and | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
great writers. However, I wish to make some serious points about | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
sustaining our success for the future. It is vital to give every | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
young person with talent the potential to develop and the | :20:54. | :21:01. | |
technical skills needed across the sector. The talent in our Young has | :21:02. | :21:12. | |
to be nurtured and supported it. In music, tuition is expensive and | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
squeezing the budgets of local authorities has seen cuts in | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
provision. Music must not become the preserve of only the children of | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
affluent parents who pay for their children's instruments and she was | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
shown. Instruments must be available for all young people to borrow and | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
tuition fee free for children of school age. People from all | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
backgrounds must be given their chance to develop and shine and that | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
is not just for them but for our future success as a creative nation. | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
We have seen, about our recent successful actor colleague, the | :21:47. | :21:55. | |
brilliant actor Glenda Jackson, who said in this place that she could | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
never have attended drama school without a full state grants and | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
having to pay no fees. I wish to see education funding restored to the | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
way it was when I was a student and have said so many times from the | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
backbenches in this House. We must defend and sustain public service | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
broadcasting, a vital civilising future of Britain which is the envy | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
of the world. Public support where ever it is needed should be provided | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
with generous state funding for the future of our industries and the | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
magnificent contribution they make to our lives, culture and economy. | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
We are a brilliant nation and we should continue to shine. I am | :22:37. | :22:46. | |
grateful to be appearing in front of you. May I congratulate the | :22:47. | :22:55. | |
honourable lady for securing it. It is a wonderful opportunity to debate | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
our hugely successful creative industries. May I use this | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
opportunity to welcome the official spokesman for the Labour Party, the | :23:06. | :23:14. | |
new culture spokesman. I had the chance to welcome him in a | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
Westminster Hall debate yesterday and I did make the point that when I | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
made my maiden speech just over there, in 2005, he was just over | :23:23. | :23:33. | |
there and he followed me, so he has always had a special place in my | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
heart. Yesterday, I discovered he is a part-time jazz musician. I am | :23:40. | :23:42. | |
playing for time while I find my notes. He obviously brings | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
considerable skill and knowledge to the debate. May I start by | :23:49. | :23:58. | |
welcoming... From memory, can I start from memory? I welcome the | :23:59. | :24:05. | |
honourable lady's opening speech where she talked about software | :24:06. | :24:13. | |
city, in Sunderland, set up in 2009. It was an absolutely brilliant | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
speech because what she brought home to me was something I found on | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
referendum day, because I went to Newcastle, doing my bit to secured | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
the spectacular result we ended up with, and I met businesses from | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
Newcastle and from Sunderland who managed to come together in | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
Newcastle, which may or may not be a rare thing and one of the points | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
they made was they felt strongly that although they had a lot of | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
support and investment from around the country, they felt in the | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
Northeast region, it was not well known enough how successful | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
Sunderland and Newcastle are in terms of high-tech industries and | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
the point they were trying to get across was that they want to | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
encourage kids at school, keep leaving school and going to college, | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
further education, University, to consider these industries. I went | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
away with a promise that I will do all I can to encourage... I give | :25:15. | :25:23. | |
way. I hope he uses the opportunity wisely. Given he is talking about | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
young people in particular, perhaps in his remarks the Minister might | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
reflect on some of the challenges around social mobility, making sure | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
access to creative industries is available to young people from the | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
most disadvantaged backgrounds. I completely support him on that | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
because some of the changes we are trying to make, particularly the | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
Next Generation group which was started by Ian Livingstone, the | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
well-known promoter of the games industry and founder of many | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
successful games companies, and some of the courses I have been to have | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
been supported by companies like Microsoft. Fantastic courses which | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
reach out to people from different backgrounds and give them the skills | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
they need to go straight into employment, because that is the | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
challenge we face, giving young people the skills they need. Too | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
often some of the courses in further education are too far removed from | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
the world of work and the creative industries because it is changing so | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
fast because of the change in technology. | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
I will give way to the honourable lady from Slough, whose speech was | :26:35. | :26:43. | |
about to refer to. I wonder if the Minister, who kindly came to the | :26:44. | :26:50. | |
agency event hosted by Battersea arts Centre, whether he would | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
reflect on that concept of using creative organisations like them to | :26:57. | :27:05. | |
enable and provide mentoring for young people to intimate creative | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
ideas? We are certainly going to look at that. I will come to the | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
paper on that in a little while. One of the reasons I saw by softening | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
difficulty earlier is because what I have discovered in two debates with | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
the honourable member for Luton North is that he gives commendably | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
short speeches. I can see the Honourable members nodding with some | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
understanding. I strongly commend him for this particular ability. | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
Short speeches in this House are more than welcome. Let me say how | :27:38. | :27:45. | |
much I enjoyed the speeches from the members from Warwick and Lymington, | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
who has done so much to promote the video games industry, and widening | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
the scope of this industry. There was the importance of arts | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
education. I was not here for all of the speech of the honourable member | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
for Selby and an ski, but I was in a debate yesterday when he spoke about | :28:04. | :28:12. | |
copyright, but the wind it to support and the music industry. | :28:13. | :28:22. | |
There is another valiant bid on behalf of the SNP to take more | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
powers from the Westminster government, in relation to video | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
games. I was not here for the full speech for the role member from | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
Southend West, but I have to say... I was about to say he is unlikely | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
jumping of the arts. That is unfair. Yesterday at PMQs, again, he | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
commended Southend. I have worked out why. When I was thinking in a | :28:45. | :28:51. | |
pub with Tracey M few weeks ago, the land lady told me what a huge | :28:52. | :29:06. | |
fancy was of Margaret Thatcher. -- I was in a pub with Tracey Emin. On | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
the day we learned we were about to get a second female Prime Minister, | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
she showed me what a huge fan she was of Margaret Thatcher. It was the | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
landlady, Margaret Thatcher and the honourable member for Southend. He | :29:21. | :29:28. | |
said he will find out where that was taken. I think that was the start of | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
this cultural career. Maher also commend the member for Glasgow | :29:33. | :29:41. | |
North, especially in his mentioning of eSports. We need to promote those | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
here. I was delighted to hear him talk about those. Manchester City | :29:49. | :29:57. | |
have hired their first professional eSports the ballplayer. The support | :29:58. | :30:08. | |
of local authorities is vital. May I also thank the honourable lady for | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
Edinburgh North and Leith for mentioning our publishing industry, | :30:13. | :30:19. | |
which we don't talk about, but because they don't receive the | :30:20. | :30:21. | |
support that government gives to film and video games, but they are | :30:22. | :30:28. | |
our most successful creative industry and Scotland supplies some | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
of our greatest authors. The noble lady from Edinburgh South West took | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
the points even wider, mentioning the fashion industry, but talked | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
about the work visas as well as general access to skills and the | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
issues of immigration after Brexit. A lot of things emerge from this | :30:50. | :30:52. | |
debate. As the unmitigated success of the longest serving creative | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
industries minister in recent history. In the last six years, the | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
exponential growth of the creative industries... I will try to make a | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
serious point here. They are our most successful industry. They Croat | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
three times more than the rate about the economy. What I have seen | :31:17. | :31:27. | |
reflected is the number of colleagues in this place who | :31:28. | :31:29. | |
recognise the importance of the traded industries and take them | :31:30. | :31:37. | |
seriously. There are issues about intellectual property protection, | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
for example. Access to skills is another issue that was raised here | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
as well. They are highly successful. Partly turbo-charged by tax credits | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
for film, games, animation, and extending into the arts, supporting | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
theatre and galleries as well. The other issue that was raised by the | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
honourable lady from Slough, and she was right to raise it, is the | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
importance of arts education. We will differ on this and there will | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
be answered debate about whether the arts are being excluded from | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
schools. I would personally reject that. I think people think that an | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
increase in focus on science and technology, which perhaps has not | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
been as strong as it could have been over the last few years, somehow | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
means that the arts must supper. No one is stopping a head teacher from | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
focusing on the arts and culture was up indeed, I would encourage it. We | :32:33. | :32:40. | |
have been able to secure important funding for music education, or the | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
creation of music education hubs, and a number of important programmes | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
to promote heritage and culture. In terms of diversity and reaching out | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
to more people to extend cultural experiences, the white paper which | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
was the first white paper on culture published for more than 50 years | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
focuses on the Citizen scheme. This is a planned which we hope to launch | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
as a pilot in the autumn, to be embedded in a cohort of young people | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
in schools around the country with arts organisations, giving them a | :33:15. | :33:16. | |
wide experience of the arts. I give way. I am thankful. I particularly | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
welcome the work that the governor has done around music hubs, | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
Redbridge music services is one of the participants and does a | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
fantastic job. Can I urge the mist and his Department to keep a close | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
aye on the consequences of local government funding cuts on many arts | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
and cultural programmes, which are coming under enormous pressure | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
because of the strain on the finances of local councils? I thank | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
you for his kind words. He has allowed me to perhaps make a further | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
point about the white paper, where we have announced a proposal. What | :33:54. | :34:02. | |
we have seen is the huge success of the European capital of culture for | :34:03. | :34:04. | |
Liverpool. We have seen the huge success of the city of culture | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
scheme, started by the last Labour government, which benefited Derry | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
Londonderry and will be in place in Hull next year. It will allow them | :34:15. | :34:23. | |
some funding to create a strategy. The north-east cultural strategy was | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
one of the principles for this idea. We have seen groups come together to | :34:28. | :34:35. | |
create a coherent vision, a long-term vision for the north-east. | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
It is over the next 15 years. If we can encourage local councils, as was | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
said by the honourable member for Glasgow North as well, to be | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
understand the importance of culture, whether in terms of shaping | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
places, creating jobs and bringing communities together, but also in | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
terms of health and well-being, helping in education and helping | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
bring people... I will give way. I agree with him, we should encourage | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
councils to support culture. When their funding is being squeezed, | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
they have to cut. There is no alternative. Would he not agree that | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
we have to provide the funding as well as the encouragement? I don't | :35:15. | :35:20. | |
want a range too far from my brief and start commenting on local | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
authority funding. In my view, it is possible. First of all, what I | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
object to is the fact that culture is always at the back of the queue | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
and when it comes to saving, colchicine is to be the first thing | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
that some councils do look at. There are a number of councils that have | :35:39. | :35:46. | |
shown how you can continue to fund culture and also embed culture in | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
many more different areas than simple putting it in a silo labelled | :35:51. | :35:59. | |
colchicine. I have -- labelled culture. I have covered more than I | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
hope to, because I was discombobulated by the pithy nature | :36:07. | :36:20. | |
of the member's speech. There are some creative industries, driven by | :36:21. | :36:29. | |
some remarkable people. It is focusing on skills, and a wider | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
strategy. We must make sure that in a Brexit world, we work with the | :36:37. | :36:43. | |
creative industries will they are calling cards of this country. We | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
must ensure they are part of the debate, we must ensure, as the | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
honourable lady for Bristol East pointed out, that they have a voice | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
in a prodigal way. I can tell her now, came from a meeting this | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
morning where we discussed the sectors in what is called the | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
interministerial group, looking at key business areas, if you like, | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
across government and tourism, the creative industries, the media and | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
arts and culture were all part of that debate. We have so conduct one | :37:14. | :37:21. | |
senior civil servant to that. We'll make sure that culture and the | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
creative industries are taken account of, and also in a more | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
wide-ranging way that the voices of our artists and creators are heard | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
as we forge a new way for the United Kingdom. Thank you, Madam Debord is | :37:37. | :37:44. | |
bigger. That a creative contribution from the minister when he lost his | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
notes, and his recall some of my speech, I was highly impressed with. | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
If he had his did any other in Sunderland, a photograph of the | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
former prime ministers would be the last thing he would be likely to | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
find behind the bar! It would not be a work in thing in my city. It has | :38:01. | :38:09. | |
been, any serious note, a very interesting and informative debate | :38:10. | :38:11. | |
on all sides of the House. We have ranged from Scotland, Slough, | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
Southend, to Sunderland, all parts of the UK, with very... I'm coming | :38:17. | :38:25. | |
to Bristol! With very diverse economies, where the creative | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
industries are important to all parts of the country. With many | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
members from Scotland contributing, they didn't mention my favourite | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
festival in Scotland, which my son-in-law introduced me to, and | :38:38. | :38:45. | |
that is the big pipe band, which he has played at on occasion. The | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
contribution to our national economy, it is almost silent. The | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
contribution is enormous but almost silent. For that reason alone, it | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
has been important that this debate has happened. Some of the things | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
mentioned, but a clear round education, the access to learning | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
and the significant concern we have in the number of people applying for | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
convocations, which is one thing I disagree with the minister on. There | :39:18. | :39:20. | |
is an issue there that we need to watch and the governor at each | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
watch. There is a strategy needed on all levels. The impact of Brexit, I | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
think, the outstanding conurbation of the debate has been through my | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
honourable friend of the member for Bristol East. That is a thing which | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
is worrying as most in relation to these industries. The issues around | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
these is, I know that talking to people before the referendum, the | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
struggle some of our artists have getting to America. If that | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
replicate itself in Europe, we have got serious problems. I will up the | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
minister said on the fact that there is somebody so conduct to the Brexit | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
unit, because we cannot over emphasise the importance of those | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
things. I hope the Government do not overlook what is a growing and | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
diverse economically important area of policy. And the impacts that | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
Brexit will have. I feel reassured from what the Minister has said | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
about that and certainly across all parties in the House, it is | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
something we would all help with if there is anything that we can do. | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
This is so important, not just to the creativity in our country but | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
also to the thriving, growing industries that the creative | :40:41. | :40:48. | |
industries are. The question is, as on the order paper, as many of that | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
opinion, say I. On the contrary, no. The ayes have it, the ayes have it. | :40:56. | :41:07. | |
We now come to motion number two, opposition parties financial | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
assistance. The question is, as on the order paper. The ayes have it, | :41:13. | :41:26. | |
the ayes have it. I beg to move that this House do now adjourn. The | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
question is that this House do now adjourn. | :41:32. | :41:41. | |
Subtitles will resume during "Thursday In Parliament" from 11pm. | :41:42. | :41:51. |