12/07/2016 House of Commons


12/07/2016

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office records, and so I think the ministers should take some pride in

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that fact. The other way of looking is that I am giving them additional

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speaking opportunities. Point of order, we will come to the

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honourable gentleman, we are saving him up. My honourable friend who is

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standing for the leadership of my party heard her constituency windows

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broken, and the police have confirmed that such an incident has

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taken place. Can we take the opportunity of deploring such

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hooliganism, whoever commits it and whichever party is involved? It is

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totally unacceptable, and one hopes the police will apprehend the

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culprits as quickly as possible. I thank the honourable gentleman for

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his point of order. Of course, it is not strictly in any residual sense a

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matter for the chair, but it is a matter for the chair in one respect,

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and that is that in common with all colleagues, the chair believes in

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democracy and peaceful exchange of opinion. We are a pluralist society,

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and if people think they will get their way by violence, threats and

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intimidation, they will soon find themselves wrong. And there is, I

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think, if I may say so, no one more suited to making that point than

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someone who has served as a democratic parliamentarian for as

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long as the honourable gentleman has done. Point of order. Unfortunately

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I was not able to bid for business questions last Thursday, for many

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different reasons. -- I was not able to be here. So I had to read later

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in Hansard, and I scoured Hansard to find announcements regarding next

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week's business, and in particular next Monday's business. But on

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Saturday I gather that the Prime Minister knows, not to their size,

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not even in this country, but in Poland, that next Monday we will be

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debating the renewal of the Trident system. -- the Prime Minister knows,

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not to this House. The question is, why have we not been told? Why has

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this has still not been formally told that that will be our business

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next week? The Minister for defence yesterday had a perfect opportunity

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if he wanted to do so to make that clear to the House. I note that

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today on the order paper, it says, and motion down in the name of the

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leader of the hows that says, at the sitting next Monday, the speakers

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should pit the questions necessary to depose on the questions necessary

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relating to the UK's nuclear deterrent not later than 10pm. So we

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have a sub announcement that that is what we will be debating. Still no

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sign of what the motion will be, whether it is amendable, and in

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precisely what terms we are having this debate. Surely it would be more

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courteous to this House to have a proper supplementary business

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statement that lays out what our business will be next Monday? I

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thank the honourable gentleman for his point of order, and he has the

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advantage of being right on both counts. Junior Government whip says

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that he is not right always, but the same could be said of junior

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Government whips, for that matter. On this matter, the honourable

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gentleman is right in both respects. First is that motion number five on

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today's order paper is posited upon the assumption that there will be a

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debate on Monday the 18th of July on the UK's nuclear deterrent. And that

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this debate has not been notified to the House other than via passing

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reference to register the by the Secretary of State for Defence in

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the course of the statement on the recent Nato summit. I'm make no

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complaint about what the Prime Minister might have been thinking or

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had intended, and was caused or tempted to comment elsewhere. I am

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not focusing on that point. What I am focusing on is that if there is

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to be a change of business, there should be a supplementary business

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statement. That is the way we do our work in this place, and if I may say

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so, the usual channels, whatever their opinions on the merit of the

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issue, really ought to be aware of that point, which is blindingly

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obvious and Brooks than no contradiction. It is very, very

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straightforward. We cannot get into a situation in this place in which

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we do business in a disorderly fashion. The procedures of this

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House are for the protection of this House, and all members ought to take

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that very seriously. They certainly ought to be aware of its

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significance, and some sort of remedial training is required for

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those who are not. Point of order, Emily Thornbury.

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The Ministry of Defence released a press release stating that there

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would be eight motion but it has not been informed to the House and it is

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not about renewal it is about continuing nuclear deterrent and the

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principle of it which seems to be a different issue. I do not know what

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press officers get up to in these matters but suffice say that

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ultimately the Secretary of State in a department is always everywhere

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and for everything in that department responsible. So we should

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not drill on it any further but let us try to learn from it for the

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future. Because I am in a benign and generous mood I will allow a further

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from the honourable member. I am grateful but the point is surely

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that as things stand unless the Leader of the House gives a clear

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statement to the House we will get to Thursday morning will be the

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first time we know for certain what the business is to be for next

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Monday by which time it will be impossible to table amendments to

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the business that will be taken on Monday, and the issue are going to

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be generous about the amendments that can be taken and tables and

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manuscript amendments and so on. Surely friendly are considering the

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defence of our nation it is ludicrous for the Government to

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indulge in such shenanigans? It would be better if there were a

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supplementary business statement and I would have thought that the terms

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of which I have answered him make that so clear that the point needs

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simply to waft from the scholarly cranium of the junior whip on duty

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to the powers that be in the relevant Government 's Department.

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Secondly, in the absence of any such supplementary business statement,

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which I would regard as discourtesy to the House, the honourable

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gentleman can be assured that it will be possible to table amendments

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on Thursday and if it is necessary, I have not thought about Pernice

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chronology, but if it is necessary for me to a low manuscript

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amendments because of the circumstances which are not of the

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honourable gentleman's devising then such manuscript amendments will be

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allowed, subject only to those amendments in terms of content being

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orderly. But I think the quips got the message.

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Not the sort of thing that you used to chant at the University of Essex

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student union. Whether this is a point of order is for you to judge

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but I want to thank you and the officers of this House for enabling

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us to display in the Jubilee room a range of products manufactured in

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the Black Country which is the greatest place in the world. If you

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have five minutes to visit the Jubilee room you will see parts

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manufactured for Ferrari, Lamborghini, and the Olympic torch,

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made in the Black Country, and if that is not enough of an attraction

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there is also some beer brewed in Dudley North, all members are

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welcome. I am extremely grateful... The honourable gentleman must speak

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for himself. I appreciate what he has just said. If it is possible for

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me to pop and I will try to do so. I am not sure what the hours of this

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event are. From now until four. I will do what I can and I encourage

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other members to do likewise. If there are no further points of order

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we come now to the ten minute rule motion which the honourable member

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for Carshalton and Warrington who has been patiently waiting. I seek

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leave to bring in a Bill to grad EU citizens the right to remain in the

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UK following the UK's withdrawal from membership of the European

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Union. On the 24th of June three million EU citizens in the UK and 1

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million UK citizens in the EU will cap to an uncertain future because

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the Brexiteer 's had slogans are plenty that are Government had no

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plans for the long-term future of EU citizens in the UK or indeed the UK

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posts Brexit. EU citizens were not able to vote in the referendum, they

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were left without a voice during the campaign. They now find themselves

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without the protection of the uses writes in the UK. This includes not

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just the right to live and work in the UK but also the right to

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participate in local, regional and European elections. The current

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Prime Minister gave an assurance that there will be no immediate

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change. This now carries little weight given that we will have a new

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Prime Minister tomorrow. His assurance is time-limited. It has a

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sell by date. He has offered no protection for the rights of EU

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citizens and Brits abroad in the future. By calling and then losing

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the referendum the Prime Minister pulled the right out from under the

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feet of the citizens. He needs to get that right out of the removals

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van parked outside number ten and booted back before he departs. EU

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citizens need certainty about their long-term future in the UK and they

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need this assurance before their futures are used as bargaining chips

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in negotiations with the European Union. The Prime has appointed a

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commission to replace Jonathan Hell. He should also act now while he

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still has time to secure the rights of EU citizens by granting all EU

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citizens resident in the UK on 23rd of June the right to stay. --

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replace Jonathan Hill. If he feels to do so there are three

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ways in which EU citizens rates could be safeguarded in the future.

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Firstly a legal challenge might rely on an appeal to Article 70 .1 B,

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Vienna Convention, on the Law of treaties. However as a professor has

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pointed out in an article entitled, what happens to acquired rights in

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the event of a Brexit, there is no consensus amongst lawyers about the

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application of the convention to the situation of EU citizens living in

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the UK, neither does this seem to be much scope to protect the position

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of EU citizens in the UK or Brits abroad through customary

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international law. EU citizens might have two weak years before any rate

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have under the convention could be tested in court. Secondly the

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Government could negotiate an Agreement with the EU member states

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to allow them to remain in a reciprocal basis and pertussis

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citizens in the EU. The problem with this approach is it turns EU

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citizens into bargaining chips, such a negotiation does not have a start

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date and this House has already condemned this by 245 votes - two as

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being wrong in principle. Bartering would be to treat EU citizens as

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children in a divorce settlement, it would be humiliating for the

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individuals concerned and their families. It would demonstrate a

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shameful lack of political judgment on the part of the British

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Government. It would also be a weak negotiating strategy because there

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is a chance that EU member states are likely to your Natalie guarantee

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the rights of British citizens. -- to unilaterally guarantee the

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rights. In his evidence the Home Affairs Select Committee this

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afternoon I ensure the Immigration Minister will be pressed further on

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this issue. There were signs at the weekend at the Nato summit and

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reported on Saturday that the position of the Government may be

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softening on this issue but the third approach, put forward by my

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Bill, would be for the Government to legislate now to secure the rights

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of EU citizens on a unilateral basis, this would provide the

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certainty for EU nationals living here. We must meet EU citizens feel

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welcome and safe in Britain. This reissues will help also the 1.3

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million British people living in the European Union. This reassures will

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help secure the future of the 9% of NHS doctors who work in the UK who

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are from the European Union. This reissues will help make sure that

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Britain remains open and welcoming. Yesterday I met with the campaign

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organisation new Europeans, a voice for EU citizens in the UK, and a

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number of other charities representing migrant communities.

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New Europeans has gathered more than 2000 signatures on a letter to the

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Prime Minister asking for this issue to be resolved now. I also draw the

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attention of the House to the same call. We have already had an

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opposition motion where we achieved a very clear outcome of 245-2 in

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favour of sorting out the position of EU citizens living in the UK

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immediately. Thanks to new Europeans I will also be meeting with the

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European Commission in the UK and ambassadors to member states in

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London to discuss the issue. It is clear that many EU citizens feel the

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longer welcome in Britain and that many are leaving. I met some of our

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lawyer this morning who said exactly that, that he and his partner feel

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that the only thing they can do is to leave the UK and they will be

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doing that shortly, even though they have lived here for 20 or more years

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and paid tax, a significant amount of tax through that time, they now

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feel they are not welcome. Reseat phones and xenophobic attacks have

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increased since the referendum. In London where there are over 800,000

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EU nationals living there are three race times every hour. These threats

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and discrimination will continue unless and until the Government

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makes clear that it will ring fence the rights of EU citizens living in

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the UK before the 21st of June. -- 24th of June. I commend the Bill to

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the House. The question is that the right honourable member has leave to

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bring in the Bill. I think the Ayes habit. Prepare and bring in the

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Bill. Tim Farren, Nick Clegg, Norman Lamb, Greg Mulholland, Caroline

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Lucas... And myself, is to speak. EU Citizens Resident in the United

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Kingdom (Right to Stay) Bill. Second reading, what day? 21st of October.

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We now come to the motion on energy and environmental implications of

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the EU referendum result. To move the motion I call the shadow

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Secretary of State responsible for these important matters. Barry

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Gardner. Thank you. I beg to move the motion standing on the order

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paper in my name and in the name of honourable members of the Shadow

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Cabinet. Before the referendum vote the Government was facing problems

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in emission targets and environmental protection is the UK

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requires for the 21st-century. These problems were mainly self inflicted.

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We had an energy policy that left companies and investors confused as

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fees and tariffs could change retrospectively, as an effective

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moratorium was put on wind power despite it being the cheapest form

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of renewable power, as the subsidy for offshore was also capped.

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Investors were told that Government was simultaneously incentivising new

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and conventional gas and phasing out call by 2025 but ?1 billion still

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remaining four development of carbon capture and storage was cut for

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weeks before final bids were to be made with the consequent

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announcement of the abandonment of the hydro project and the

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announcement by Shell that they no longer saw a future in the near term

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for the Peterhead project. The Secretary of State's reset speech

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last November left as 54 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent further

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away. Many of these companies involved,

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the investment lead-in times are quite long, and this is just leading

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to a very uncertain environment for them to work in, which is leading to

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them just pulling out of the UK altogether. I have to reluctantly

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agree with my honourable friend. This is not good news. This is

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really bad news for all of us. Because the investment climate in

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the UK is in a really dire state. In fact, the UK has now fallen from

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eighth to 11th to 13th in the errands and John index of the best

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countries for investment in low carbon technology. When previously

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we had never been outside of the top ten. These are really worrying

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methods. I recently asked the Secretary of State for Energy and

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Climate Change about what action she would take to promote zero carbon

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homes, giving the Government announced last July it was to scrap

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the target set by the previous Labour Government for all homes to

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be carbon neutral by the issue. She replied that she could reassure me

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an EU directive was due to come in in 2020, and Edward, she believes,

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help reduce bills. Given we are reading the EU, would you agree we

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should take immediate action to reintroduced ambitious targets for a

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zero carbon homes. What an excellent point my honourable friend makes.

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She knows, as I do, that the Secretary of State was somebody who

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did see the value in UK staying within the European Union. She saw

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the value of all the directives and the regulations that came from

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Europe that really afford read the sort of environmental protections

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and energy policies that would secure our future. I will give way

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in just a minute. In that respect, I feel the Secretary of State, whilst

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no doubt she will responsibly respond to the brief today, must

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actually feel a great deal of somebody both with what my

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honourable friend has said and indeed my own remarks on the

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dispatch box. He is making a powerful case about the lack of

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investment and economic instability. I wonder if he would agree with me

:21:43.:21:47.

that now is a good time for the Government to reverse its decision

:21:48.:21:50.

to privatise the green investment bank, and also, it could be making a

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very strong case that the Government will seek to remain inside the

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European investment bank when it negotiates its withdrawal, because

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if these two things happen, we are in difficult times. The honourable

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lady speaks with great knowledge. She's absolutely right about the

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Green Investment Bank. It was set up for a very particular purpose,

:22:15.:22:18.

because the Government recognised there was market failure, and it was

:22:19.:22:22.

quite right that the Government put the Green Investment Bank in place.

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Unfortunately the borrowing powers did not come quickly enough for it.

:22:27.:22:33.

But no to privatise the Green Investment Bank I think is a mistake

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and of great regret to all who work in that environment. The remarks she

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makes about the European Investment Bank will come into my own speech

:22:44.:22:51.

later. In regards to insecurity in investment, national Grid have said

:22:52.:22:56.

that fuel prices are about to rise with the Brexit result, and my

:22:57.:23:04.

campaign showed that consumers were being overcharged to the tune of

:23:05.:23:08.

?1.7 billion per year. Does my friend Matt agree with me that it is

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important the Government outlines what they will do to ensure that

:23:12.:23:16.

consumers are not ripped off further and are not paying more for their

:23:17.:23:23.

field. My honourable friend and constituency neighbour has run a

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superb campaign on fuel policy, and she makes reference to the 1.7

:23:29.:23:32.

million that was in a report which found that bill payers in the UK

:23:33.:23:38.

were being overcharged. By really quite an obscene amount. Of course

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it is right that the Government comes forward with clear proposals

:23:42.:23:45.

about how to tackle that abuse, and not simply say, as they have today,

:23:46.:23:50.

that people need to be able to switch more easily. -- as they have

:23:51.:23:59.

two date. This is one of the first debates we are having that matches

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the EU referendum result, and though I know the honourable member was on

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the other side of the argument, I think it would be useful if you

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could inform the House, when it comes to a vote, will he be voting

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to leave the EU, despite his heavy heart, or will he be voting against

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the wishes of the British people? What I try and do is always look at

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the motion in front of me on the order paper and make a judgment on

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it when I see what it says. I have done that for the past 19.5 years,

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and I suspected I will do it for the next year as well. Even the

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Government - dominated select committee has warned about what they

:24:39.:24:43.

call the hiatus in product development could threaten the UK's

:24:44.:24:47.

ability to meet its energy targets. So when the Government's on fears

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show the need for ?100 billion of investment by 2020 to make our

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delicate state infrastructure fit for purpose, the Secretary of State

:24:58.:25:01.

really does have to explain to the House where she believes that

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investment is going to come from, given that investor confidence in

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her department is at an all-time low. -- to make our electricity

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infrastructure fit for purpose. Before she does, perhaps she did

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confirm to the House whether she instructed her department not to

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prepare in anyway for a leave of thought, as the Prime Minister

:25:22.:25:24.

apparently directed, and if she did, can she explain why? Because that is

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what business leaders are asking out there. It seems incomprehensible to

:25:31.:25:36.

them that the Prime Minister took such a gigantic risk with their

:25:37.:25:40.

future, a risk that will increase and the cost of capital and the cost

:25:41.:25:48.

of energy to Bill payers, both corporate and ethical life. And yet

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he made absolutely no preparations for what might happen when at rest

:25:52.:25:58.

went the wrong way. A group of is additional investors representing

:25:59.:26:03.

over E13 trillion in assets that the aftermath of the boat to leave has

:26:04.:26:11.

brought considerable uncertainty and market turmoil, which only goes to

:26:12.:26:18.

prove that the art of light Ortiz is not yet dead. -- the aftermath of

:26:19.:26:24.

the vote to leave. In light of that uncertainty, would my honourable

:26:25.:26:26.

friend agree that what the Government should do is get a

:26:27.:26:33.

cast-iron guarantee that it will all learn the environmental standards

:26:34.:26:35.

and undertakings we have made in the EU to date posts Brexit? Luke, my

:26:36.:26:45.

honourable friend who takes a consistent and right interest in

:26:46.:26:49.

these matters, is absolutely correct. That is precisely the

:26:50.:26:55.

intention of this motion, to flush out those issues and ensure the

:26:56.:26:58.

Government does precisely as they say. In the aftermath of the Leave

:26:59.:27:06.

vote. The Government's all external adviser has said the future of the

:27:07.:27:12.

Hinkley C Power Station is now extremely unlikely. It is now

:27:13.:27:18.

reassessing the risk of working in the UK, which could jeopardise its

:27:19.:27:22.

plans for a ?5.5 billion wind farm off the east coast of England, and

:27:23.:27:26.

Siemens announced they were putting a freeze on their future, not in

:27:27.:27:30.

their current but future clean energy investments in hole as a

:27:31.:27:35.

result of what they called the increase uncertainty from the Leave

:27:36.:27:42.

vote. I must say that for all that Minister has talked about the sunlit

:27:43.:27:47.

uplands of the post - Brexit world, there's no use in the Secretary of

:27:48.:27:52.

State trying to pretend she thinks the vote anything but a disaster,

:27:53.:27:57.

because she herself is on record quoting analysis that won't the

:27:58.:28:03.

exclusion from the EU's energy market could cost the UK up to ?500

:28:04.:28:07.

million per year by the early 20 20s. The right honourable lady stock

:28:08.:28:13.

response that Labour members should not talk Britain down simply will

:28:14.:28:18.

not serve, given that these quotations are only from her own

:28:19.:28:22.

advisers from industry leaders, and indeed, from herself. Bloomberg new

:28:23.:28:28.

energy Finance is not scaremongering when it says of the upcoming Brexit

:28:29.:28:33.

negotiations that they are, and I quote, likely to cause project

:28:34.:28:36.

investors and banks to hesitate about committing new capital, and

:28:37.:28:43.

could cause a drop in renewable energy asset values. It is an

:28:44.:28:46.

authoritative, independent commentator telling the unvarnished

:28:47.:28:54.

truth. I always follows comments with a great deal of interest. Is it

:28:55.:28:58.

not about time that he and his party moved on? The British people have

:28:59.:29:02.

delivered their verdict, and would you not agree that it is not

:29:03.:29:05.

terribly help of our people like him to continue to talk the British

:29:06.:29:09.

economy down in the way he has just done? I understand that there is a

:29:10.:29:19.

need to move on, and the honourable gentleman is right to say that we

:29:20.:29:22.

must now look to the future. If you payers with me, I think he will find

:29:23.:29:27.

that that is what I am trying to do. -- if he bears with me. Yes, I am

:29:28.:29:32.

critical of where we are, but actually, the criticisms that I have

:29:33.:29:36.

so far add grated or not my own. They are the criticisms of the

:29:37.:29:40.

Government's own advisers, the industry itself, and the criticisms

:29:41.:29:46.

that were made by the right honourable lady. This is not me

:29:47.:29:51.

talking the UK economy down. This is actually trying to set out with

:29:52.:29:55.

clarity with the situation now lies, and then to try and see that we can

:29:56.:30:00.

move on from it. Perhaps the Secretary of State could do the

:30:01.:30:05.

same, as Bloomberg, in telling the unvarnished truth, and tell the

:30:06.:30:08.

House of what assessment her department has made of the increased

:30:09.:30:12.

price of imported energy as a result of the falling pound. I will happily

:30:13.:30:17.

give way to her if she was used to. Perhaps then she could tell us what

:30:18.:30:22.

assessment her department has made the price premiums on loans that

:30:23.:30:27.

will be demanded by investors energy infrastructure to cover the cost of

:30:28.:30:32.

political uncertainty. Is it 1%? Is it 2%? Again, I will happily give

:30:33.:30:37.

away if she wishes to inform the House what assessment her department

:30:38.:30:41.

has made on these matters. In that case, I will give way to the

:30:42.:30:47.

honourable gentleman. I thank him very much for his voluminous

:30:48.:30:51.

intervention, Adas, will he take the Minister to task in what she intends

:30:52.:30:59.

to do to achieve the climate change targets in respect to complete the

:31:00.:31:02.

car by then the transport and heating sectors to achieve 2050

:31:03.:31:11.

targets? The honourable gentleman is absolute right. If you look at what

:31:12.:31:16.

the committee on climate change has said, it is absolutely clear that

:31:17.:31:19.

the area where the UK is falling behind most badly is not in the

:31:20.:31:24.

power sector, but in transport and heating. He is right in the comments

:31:25.:31:29.

he makes. Of course, it does not rest solely with the right

:31:30.:31:32.

honourable lady. It rests with her colleagues in the Department for

:31:33.:31:35.

Transport and the Department for Communities and Local Government as

:31:36.:31:39.

well. Perhaps the honourable lady might find it easier to explain how

:31:40.:31:43.

the UK might continue to benefit from the EU internal energy market,

:31:44.:31:50.

or does Brexit mean Brexit from this as well? We really do need clear

:31:51.:31:55.

answers to this. Perhaps she can tell us what will happen to the four

:31:56.:32:00.

clean energy projects currently under assessment by the European

:32:01.:32:03.

fund for strategic investment. She knows that the European investment

:32:04.:32:09.

bank has been the UK's biggest clean energy lender, putting 31 billion

:32:10.:32:13.

euros into clean energy over the last five years. Has she identified

:32:14.:32:17.

a replacement source of funds for projects such as this? Perhaps she

:32:18.:32:23.

can explain why the Government last week pulled funding from the only

:32:24.:32:27.

large new gas plant that had managed to secure financing under the

:32:28.:32:31.

capacity market scheme after Carlton power were unable to secure

:32:32.:32:34.

investment needed for the Trafford plant? The capacity market has

:32:35.:32:39.

resoundingly failed to secure the new gas bill that it was introduced

:32:40.:32:44.

to incentivise. Perhaps she can explain, after the failure of the

:32:45.:32:48.

green Deal and offering lodging that neither the warm homes scheme are

:32:49.:32:55.

sufficiently targeted to reach those most in need, how would she tackle

:32:56.:33:02.

the fuel poverty experienced by 2.38 million of our fellow citizens? Let

:33:03.:33:07.

me correct that, Mr Speaker. I should not say 2.38 million of our

:33:08.:33:12.

fellow citizens. It is that the 2.3 million households, and that in

:33:13.:33:18.

England alone. Perhaps she might also explain to the House why it was

:33:19.:33:22.

the national Grid warned on Friday the lights were on the kept on by

:33:23.:33:28.

emergency measures last year. The fact is that the Government's energy

:33:29.:33:33.

policy has pushed us further towards energy insecurity. The reason that

:33:34.:33:38.

we have secured this opposition Day debate today is precisely to ensure

:33:39.:33:42.

the Government cannot ignore pressing concerns like these

:33:43.:33:45.

following the referendum. The vote to leave was not a vote for

:33:46.:33:50.

blackouts and soaring energy bills. It is the Government's

:33:51.:33:53.

responsibility to ensure that this does not happen. The committee on

:33:54.:33:57.

climate change, who have the statutory duty to advise the

:33:58.:34:00.

Government on the most cost-effective route to

:34:01.:34:01.

decarbonisation have always been clear that early action is cheaper

:34:02.:34:07.

action. As the Chief Executive of the committee on climate change

:34:08.:34:10.

warned us last week, leaving the EU is the mechanism of how we reach our

:34:11.:34:17.

target is into question. -- pits the mechanism into question. The

:34:18.:34:20.

Government has now created a temper sent gap and predictions for 2020,

:34:21.:34:31.

and is nearly 50% shortly meeting its target for 2030. If the

:34:32.:34:37.

Secretary of State get around to her obligation to set it, it is tabled

:34:38.:34:41.

for Monday, which would make it only 18 days beyond the legal statutory

:34:42.:34:46.

limit. Last year the environmental audit committee gave the Government

:34:47.:34:50.

a red card for managing future climate change risk. The chair

:34:51.:34:56.

concluded, and I quote, we simply do not know the inability of the vast

:34:57.:35:01.

majority of stuff out there for current weather, never mind the

:35:02.:35:02.

future. This is a tier one priority risk

:35:03.:35:15.

alongside terrorism and cyber attacks and it is our most deprived

:35:16.:35:20.

communities that faced the greatest increases in flood risk. New

:35:21.:35:23.

evidence released today by the committee on climate change makes

:35:24.:35:28.

starker than ever the threat to British households and businesses

:35:29.:35:31.

from failing to manage climate change. They publish estimates that

:35:32.:35:37.

sure how without increased action on climate adaptation by Government the

:35:38.:35:40.

number of forms at high risk from flooding will rise to well over a 1

:35:41.:35:44.

million even if we meet our current climate targets. I will give way.

:35:45.:35:53.

Just to clarify, would the right honourable member explain what the

:35:54.:35:59.

relationship between the issue relating to the European Union and

:36:00.:36:05.

the questions around flooding is? Some people might think that the

:36:06.:36:07.

honourable gentleman is approaching the conclusion of his pool remarks.

:36:08.:36:18.

-- preliminary remarks. I am sure you are correct. Happy to explain

:36:19.:36:30.

that because unless we have both clarity about the post Brexit

:36:31.:36:33.

scenario, unless we know where we are going to be able to secure

:36:34.:36:38.

funding to replace all the funding that came under the Common

:36:39.:36:41.

Agricultural Policy for measures that were taken to mitigate

:36:42.:36:45.

flooding, unless we are able to look at land management in the way that

:36:46.:36:50.

the European Union Allied is to do then we do not have clarity on these

:36:51.:36:52.

matters. It is vital for adaptation. matters. It is vital for adaptation.

:36:53.:37:03.

We are living at a time of increased risk

:37:04.:37:11.

that requires robust planning to limit impacts on communities and

:37:12.:37:15.

businesses. After the devastation of recent floods around our country I

:37:16.:37:20.

say that this new assessment requires a new response from

:37:21.:37:26.

Government backed cuts to the budget and the Environment Agency makes us

:37:27.:37:32.

more vulnerable and the Government must take responsibility. The UK's

:37:33.:37:41.

ability to face up to environmental challenges was strengthened by EU

:37:42.:37:45.

membership so given that the principal response from the Treasury

:37:46.:37:49.

so far is a U-turn on the core election pledge to balance the books

:37:50.:37:53.

by 2020 it would be helpful... I think the Speaker wants me to press

:37:54.:37:58.

on so I will not. I have been generous in giving way. It would be

:37:59.:38:02.

helpful to get some clarity from the Environment Secretary when he

:38:03.:38:08.

concludes this debate, precisely where he proposes to find additional

:38:09.:38:12.

resources for adequate flood defences to meet this new

:38:13.:38:18.

assessment. Last week the Secretary of State for DEFRA told the House it

:38:19.:38:24.

is clear that it is business as usual while we remain members of the

:38:25.:38:27.

EU. Perhaps she will understand that what concerns many of us is that

:38:28.:38:31.

this unit we are no longer members of the EU many of the protections

:38:32.:38:36.

that the natural environment currently enjoys will fall away. The

:38:37.:38:40.

the directive has been opposed in Europe by this Government to try to

:38:41.:38:46.

what it down for years. Our own Supreme Court has found them to be

:38:47.:38:54.

in breach, the Government that is. 52,500 excess deaths in the UK every

:38:55.:39:02.

year because of polluted era. I pay tribute to the Emir of London who

:39:03.:39:05.

used the 60th anniversary of the clean air act to unveil a new queen

:39:06.:39:18.

here programme -- pager bute to the Mayor of London who used the 60th

:39:19.:39:24.

anniversary of the clean air act to unveil a new queen here programme.

:39:25.:39:33.

The birds and habitats directive may be transposed into law but we need

:39:34.:39:40.

to know if our beaches will still be protected by believing what

:39:41.:39:43.

directive or whether swimming through sewage will become a feature

:39:44.:39:47.

of swimming at the seaside. We need to know which bits of the electronic

:39:48.:39:53.

waste directive will not be chance littered into European law and what

:39:54.:39:58.

the impact may have for recycling industries and our commitment to the

:39:59.:40:06.

circular economy fish and birds and insects, pollution is oblivious to

:40:07.:40:12.

the strictures of national airspace. If we manage -- if we wish to manage

:40:13.:40:20.

all of these it is best to do so in concert with European neighbours,

:40:21.:40:23.

the votes to leave the EU has made that Hyder, the Government must

:40:24.:40:27.

outline how it will overcome that parole London. Last week the House

:40:28.:40:35.

was told that on subsidies to farmers up to 2020 it was not a

:40:36.:40:40.

decision that could be made at that stage, not a decision that could be

:40:41.:40:44.

made at that stage. Surely it is a decision that should have been made

:40:45.:40:49.

before farmers were asked to vote to leave the EU. Much of the subsidy is

:40:50.:40:55.

fire environmental stewardship schemes and other practices that

:40:56.:40:58.

benefit biodiversity and wildlife. To turn round to tell farmers now

:40:59.:41:04.

that 3.5 billion total of subsidy that used to flow each year from the

:41:05.:41:10.

EU into their pockets is no longer secure is not just an attack on the

:41:11.:41:14.

likelihood of farmers, it is an attack on all the work that farmers

:41:15.:41:18.

do to enhance our environment and protect our landscapes. These are

:41:19.:41:24.

not abstract challenges. Managing the risks borne of the uncertainty

:41:25.:41:29.

of the referendum outcome is a responsibility for Government.

:41:30.:41:32.

Ministers must identify any legislative gaps in environmental

:41:33.:41:36.

protection that may arise from the removal of EU law and develop plans

:41:37.:41:44.

so that the UK does not become a riskier, and healthier, more

:41:45.:41:47.

polluted place to live in or do business in. I give way. He would be

:41:48.:41:57.

hard-pressed to find any conservation group in the country

:41:58.:42:05.

any environment group are told that believes CAP provides net benefit.

:42:06.:42:09.

There are bits that argued. Surely Brexit gives an opportunity to

:42:10.:42:14.

tailor those funds so that they genuinely subsidise farmers in

:42:15.:42:19.

delivering a genuine public good. This is a massive opportunity,

:42:20.:42:25.

surely? I am happy to say to the honourable gentleman that I have

:42:26.:42:29.

been a critic of the CAP as he has for many years that he will know

:42:30.:42:36.

that the arrangements under the CAP and the environmental stewardship

:42:37.:42:38.

arrangements were positive and that there was a net benefit that came

:42:39.:42:43.

from that. What I want the Government to do is set out what the

:42:44.:42:47.

new arrangements be proposed Arsenal we can be sure that those

:42:48.:42:51.

environmental protections do remain in place and money is not fitted me

:42:52.:42:57.

on something else. The Government must provide cancerous to Parliament

:42:58.:43:02.

and the public who want to be assured that there will not be a

:43:03.:43:08.

Brexit bonfire of the regulations. Environmental protections under the

:43:09.:43:11.

EU are not bureaucracy to be done away with, they are part of what it

:43:12.:43:15.

is to live in a civilised country that respects the natural world and

:43:16.:43:21.

believes the only prosperous future is a sustainable one. I want to ask

:43:22.:43:26.

three key questions. Will the Government move swiftly to ratify

:43:27.:43:29.

the Palace climate Agreement? How will the Government press access to

:43:30.:43:34.

the internal energy market? How will the Government make sure that energy

:43:35.:43:39.

bills do not go up as a result of increased uncertainty following the

:43:40.:43:44.

vote? Ultimately the Government must commit to safeguarding environmental

:43:45.:43:48.

and is to at least the same levels we have enjoyed within the EU by

:43:49.:43:53.

passing into UK law all those regulations which would otherwise

:43:54.:43:59.

fall away upon leaving it. The question is as on the order

:44:00.:44:04.

paper. I call the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change. Thank

:44:05.:44:12.

you. Can I start by thanking the opposition and the member for Brent

:44:13.:44:15.

Northwood giving the opportunity on the site of the House to address

:44:16.:44:23.

important questions and particularly with stakeholders? Can I respond to

:44:24.:44:27.

the point made by the honourable member for South West Wiltshire? It

:44:28.:44:33.

may have escaped some people's noticed that I campaigned on the

:44:34.:44:37.

other side of this issue on the EU referendum but I agree we must move

:44:38.:44:42.

on, Brexit means Brexit, we will make a success of it. It is true

:44:43.:44:48.

that the decision that the country made on June 23 is of historical

:44:49.:44:52.

importance and it is true that the key challenge which faces as now is

:44:53.:44:56.

to work towards a settlement that is in the best interests of Britain.

:44:57.:45:00.

But it is not true as the honourable member has been suggesting that our

:45:01.:45:05.

commitments to the environment and tackle minor change, to provide

:45:06.:45:10.

homes and businesses with secure and clean energy, has faltered in any

:45:11.:45:13.

way. Our commitment to these tasks has not changed and will not change.

:45:14.:45:21.

I have made it my priority to the year these points over the past

:45:22.:45:26.

fortnight. I have said security of supply would be our first priority

:45:27.:45:31.

and it remains so. My department announced last week how much

:45:32.:45:35.

electricity capacity we intend to buy in the forthcoming capacity

:45:36.:45:39.

market auctions. This commitment is the backbone to our energy policy. I

:45:40.:45:43.

announced that the Government would accept their recommendations of the

:45:44.:45:49.

committee on the level of the first carbon budgets, a long-term

:45:50.:45:54.

commitment is taking us beyond this Parliament, until 2032. I also made

:45:55.:46:00.

clear that we remain committed to holding a competitive CFT allocation

:46:01.:46:10.

round this year. There is no point pretending that the votes to leave

:46:11.:46:15.

the EU is not of huge significance. There are risks that this Government

:46:16.:46:19.

will continue to do its part to deliver on the environmental

:46:20.:46:22.

challenges that this country faces. I give way. Will she take the

:46:23.:46:29.

opportunity to confirm that the Government intends in the future to

:46:30.:46:33.

honour its commitments to the environment as set out in EU

:46:34.:46:38.

directives in the pass so that standards do not slip from the

:46:39.:46:42.

current standards on air quality, flooding, climate change, does she

:46:43.:46:47.

agree that should be legislation to series should become standard? What

:46:48.:46:54.

I can say is that this Government's commitment to a clean environment

:46:55.:46:58.

and to its climate change commitments remain unchanged. I will

:46:59.:47:03.

address my remarks, the issue on climate change issues specifically,

:47:04.:47:08.

energy, I will allow the Minister to address the environmental once when

:47:09.:47:12.

he makes his remarks, no doubt addressing the exact point you have

:47:13.:47:18.

raised. Does she not ideally that it is a pity that the benches opposite

:47:19.:47:23.

seemed to be suggesting that the European Union has tracked the

:47:24.:47:27.

United Kingdom from darkness into enlightenment and Ritchie agree with

:47:28.:47:30.

me that Britain has traditionally led the way in environmental

:47:31.:47:36.

legislation, I would cite the clean air act of 1956, which was cited by

:47:37.:47:45.

the member for Brent Northwood vote irony? As he rightly has said we

:47:46.:47:51.

must move on. There are benefits to what we have already proposed and

:47:52.:47:55.

there have been benefits to the EU directives as well but have read

:47:56.:47:59.

standards in some areas but what I believe we'll nighty places that we

:48:00.:48:03.

will maintain the standards and not allow those standards to slip all.

:48:04.:48:14.

Increasingly investors are getting more cautious, can she confirmed she

:48:15.:48:19.

is doing all she can to persuade colleagues to make sure that we

:48:20.:48:22.

remain part of the European investment bank as least as long as

:48:23.:48:26.

the negotiations are going on, because if we withdraw now there

:48:27.:48:30.

will be a huge amount of potential investment not coming into this

:48:31.:48:36.

country when we needed most. I was going to talk about investment and

:48:37.:48:39.

she is absolutely right about the importance of investment in securing

:48:40.:48:43.

clean energy going for. Regarding the European investment bank I

:48:44.:48:48.

appreciate the impact it has had on supporting clean energy in this

:48:49.:48:52.

country and I would hope that our membership will continue. I cannot

:48:53.:48:58.

give commitments going for word. I share her views about how a it is.

:48:59.:49:18.

We have heard this morning that there is with the temper sent

:49:19.:49:24.

achievement gap that has opened between 2023 and 20 27. The decision

:49:25.:49:33.

to cancel the carbon capturing storage competition at the last

:49:34.:49:36.

spending review will do little to encourage investor confidence in

:49:37.:49:41.

that area. The right honourable lady is right. We have always known that

:49:42.:49:46.

we have an issue with the fourth carbon budget, and there is more

:49:47.:49:50.

work to be done, which is why, and I thank her for her comments, it was a

:49:51.:49:54.

reasonable achievement to get cross Government approval to get the fit

:49:55.:49:57.

carbon budget approved. There is a lot of work to be done. There are

:49:58.:50:02.

policies to be decided on, and we will be coming forward with the

:50:03.:50:05.

emissions proposals by the end of this year in order to address those

:50:06.:50:08.

policies that will be needed in the 20s. In a former life, I was the

:50:09.:50:16.

rack and tour of the European Parliament for the European

:50:17.:50:20.

Investment Bank, and we are not on the stakeholder in the bag but a

:50:21.:50:24.

shareholder in the bank, one of the biggest funders, and it funds

:50:25.:50:27.

projects across the planet, not just in the EU. So surely there is no

:50:28.:50:33.

risk to investment in the UK while those factors remain the same. I

:50:34.:50:37.

thank my honourable friend for clarifying that position, which no

:50:38.:50:41.

doubt will give the honourable lady as much comfort as it does me as

:50:42.:50:47.

well. Can I make some comments on the issue of investor confidence,

:50:48.:50:50.

which was central to the debate for this afternoon. Then the referendum,

:50:51.:50:56.

I have met with investors from across the energy spectrum, all

:50:57.:50:59.

areas in which we need investment. Yesterday I spoke to the Siemens

:51:00.:51:03.

managing board to reassure them of the commitments I am setting out you

:51:04.:51:06.

today. Officials across my department have regularly kept in

:51:07.:51:10.

contact with energy investors and companies to reiterate that message.

:51:11.:51:15.

But the message from businesses is clear. They still see the UK as a

:51:16.:51:19.

great place to invest. Britain remains one of the best buddies in

:51:20.:51:23.

the world to live and do business. The rule of law, low taxes, talented

:51:24.:51:29.

workforce, a strong finance sector. We have to build upon the strength,

:51:30.:51:35.

not turn away from them. These factors, clear energy policy

:51:36.:51:38.

framework and a strong investment economy conveyed to make the UK an

:51:39.:51:41.

ideal place to attract the much-needed energy investment. The

:51:42.:51:45.

UK has been the fourth highest investor globally. This is the

:51:46.:51:51.

investment in the energy structure we need to underpin a strong,

:51:52.:51:54.

competitive economy. This Government will do all it can to keep the UK as

:51:55.:51:58.

an attractive place for investment, and whatever settlement we do decide

:51:59.:52:02.

on in the coming months, these fundamentals will remain unchanged.

:52:03.:52:08.

I wanted to underline our commitment to addressing climate change.

:52:09.:52:12.

Climate change has not been downgraded as a threat. It remains

:52:13.:52:16.

one of the most serious long-term risks to our economic and national

:52:17.:52:20.

security. I attended the world-class team of British diplomats at last

:52:21.:52:26.

year's Paris climate talks. Our efforts were essential to securing

:52:27.:52:30.

that deal. The UK will not step back from that international leadership.

:52:31.:52:34.

We must not turn our back on Europe or the world. Our relationships with

:52:35.:52:39.

the United States, China, India, Japan, other European countries,

:52:40.:52:43.

will stand us in strongest dead as we deliver on the promises made on

:52:44.:52:48.

Paris. At the heart of that commitment is our own Climate Change

:52:49.:52:52.

Act. The act was not imposed upon us by the EU. It was entirely

:52:53.:52:58.

home-grown. It was also a world first, and a prime example of the UK

:52:59.:53:02.

setting the agenda that others are now following. Let us not forget

:53:03.:53:06.

that it was delivered with unanimous support right across the House. It

:53:07.:53:14.

is true, we have... I give way. She will be aware that the fifth time

:53:15.:53:19.

its budget means the UK is reducing carbon at a rate faster than any

:53:20.:53:24.

country in the EU, and significantly faster than the EU IND CeBIT forward

:53:25.:53:27.

at Paris. It is not the risk of at Paris. It is not the risk of

:53:28.:53:32.

Brexit that we go back on climate change objectives, but that we do

:53:33.:53:35.

not bring the rest of Europe with any readership decision we have

:53:36.:53:38.

taken, and that we are going so much more quickly than will the art. My

:53:39.:53:44.

honourable friend, who knows this area so well, has raised a very

:53:45.:53:48.

important point, and I hope I will be able to reassure him that we will

:53:49.:53:52.

be able to continue to use our influence to encourage the European

:53:53.:53:55.

Union to raise their game in reaching the high standards that we

:53:56.:53:59.

do. But I agree with him that this will be an additional concern which

:54:00.:54:02.

we will have to work to try to deliver. It is true that we have had

:54:03.:54:08.

to make tough decisions on renewable energy when we came into office last

:54:09.:54:13.

year, reflecting the need to cut costs and for technologies to stand

:54:14.:54:17.

on their own two feet. I will not shy away from taking those tough

:54:18.:54:20.

decisions going forward. We need technologies which are low cost and

:54:21.:54:24.

clean to protect bill payers. I give way. I thank the honourable lady for

:54:25.:54:32.

giving way. She mentions India among others standing by us in respect

:54:33.:54:36.

with investment. Does she agree that given there are something like 2400

:54:37.:54:41.

coal-fired power stations planned or under construction around the world,

:54:42.:54:45.

including India and China, that cancelling the CCF project is a

:54:46.:54:48.

massive missed opportunity for this country? The honourable gentleman

:54:49.:54:53.

will be aware, we have been through the issue of the CCS many times. We

:54:54.:54:59.

would like to have a CCS programme. We are working on an industrial

:55:00.:55:04.

programme to address having a CCS strategy. But at the time, we could

:55:05.:55:12.

not go ahead with the ?1 billion that had otherwise been planned for

:55:13.:55:17.

the CCS proposal. It is not off the table at all. We are still working

:55:18.:55:20.

towards having some sort of CCS proposals. So are commitment to

:55:21.:55:29.

decarbonisation is clear. With ?13 million of investment in renewable

:55:30.:55:33.

energy city in 2015 alone. And with investment in renewables increasing

:55:34.:55:38.

by 40% since 2010. We have our funding to be provided through

:55:39.:55:41.

auctions in this Parliament to support up to four gigawatts of

:55:42.:55:46.

offshore wind and other offshore village mac renewable technologies.

:55:47.:55:50.

With the potential for up to ten gigawatts in total if the course

:55:51.:55:56.

continue to go down. We are making real progress to deliver new nuclear

:55:57.:56:02.

power in the UK, addressing a legacy of underinvestment. We are enabling

:56:03.:56:06.

new and innovative ways of heating our homes and businesses. And we

:56:07.:56:12.

will lead the world by consulting or closing unabated coal-fired

:56:13.:56:16.

stations, a commitment that was praised across the world and on

:56:17.:56:19.

which we will be setting out further details on. All of these commitments

:56:20.:56:24.

remain in place. They will help us dramatically rebuild our energy

:56:25.:56:27.

infrastructure, and they are underpinned by our commitment to

:56:28.:56:32.

carbon budgets, which is why the CBI, the EEF, businesses and

:56:33.:56:35.

investors from a wide range of different sectors, are also

:56:36.:56:37.

supportive of the decision we took to set the fifth carbon budget. We

:56:38.:56:44.

have a proud history of energy innovation. The world's first

:56:45.:56:47.

coal-fired power station was built on the banks of the Thames in the

:56:48.:56:51.

late 1800 's. The world's first nuclear power station was opened by

:56:52.:56:57.

Her Majesty The Queen in Cumbria in 1956. And well before the EU

:56:58.:57:02.

referendum had begun in earnest, my department was making sure that this

:57:03.:57:07.

country remains at the forefront of energy and climate change

:57:08.:57:10.

innovation. That is why, the Government, we have committed more

:57:11.:57:14.

than ?500 million over the spending review to supporting new energy

:57:15.:57:17.

technologies. This means supporting entrepreneurs as they look to

:57:18.:57:22.

develop the innovations of the future, in storage, energy and

:57:23.:57:26.

renewables. As part of that programme, we will build on the UK's

:57:27.:57:30.

expertise in nuclear innovation. At least half of our innovation

:57:31.:57:34.

spending will go towards nuclear research and development, and this

:57:35.:57:38.

will support our centres of excellence in Cumbria, Manchester,

:57:39.:57:42.

Sheffield and Preston. Our nuclear programme will include a competition

:57:43.:57:46.

to develop a small modular nuclear reactor, potentially one of the most

:57:47.:57:49.

exciting innovations in the energy sector. Otherwise have focused

:57:50.:57:55.

primarily on energy and climate change, we must not forget the trade

:57:56.:57:58.

and businesses surrounding the environment and agricultural

:57:59.:58:01.

sectors, which are so profoundly affected by our decisions on

:58:02.:58:07.

tackling rising global temperatures. The Department for Environment, Food

:58:08.:58:10.

and Rural Affairs continues to engage farmers, businesses and

:58:11.:58:12.

environmental groups to make sure their voices are heard. It has been

:58:13.:58:17.

made clear to them that there will be no immediate changes, and we will

:58:18.:58:20.

hear later from my honourable friend and the Minister, the member for

:58:21.:58:24.

Penrith and The Border, who will address the environmental issues.

:58:25.:58:28.

There have been significant advantages to us trading energy,

:58:29.:58:32.

both within Europe and being an entry point into Europe for the rest

:58:33.:58:36.

of the world. In Europe, we have led the world on acting to address claim

:58:37.:58:41.

it change. The economic imperative that drove those relationships has

:58:42.:58:46.

not changed. An openness to trade remained central to who we are as a

:58:47.:58:50.

country. And be Prime Minister has repeatedly said, we will work

:58:51.:58:54.

towards the best deal for Britain, and as I have said, our challenges

:58:55.:59:02.

remain the same. Securing our energy supply, keeping bills low, holding a

:59:03.:59:08.

low carbon energy infrastructure, and protecting the environment and

:59:09.:59:11.

farming. Our commitment to these is unboned. -- is the same. It is a

:59:12.:59:24.

good debate to be having, and I thank the shadow Secretary of State

:59:25.:59:27.

and the Labour front bench for giving us the opportunity to debate

:59:28.:59:31.

this. It is just a shame the right honourable member did not get beyond

:59:32.:59:36.

his introductory remarks in what was an excellent overview of the issues

:59:37.:59:42.

that have been raised. I think today, SNP history will be made in

:59:43.:59:45.

that it will be the first time the full force of team Cal will be

:59:46.:59:51.

deployed at the same time in a debate. We will hear from the member

:59:52.:59:56.

from Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, or as I like to call him,

:59:57.:00:05.

the junior member of team Callum later on. This feels like an element

:00:06.:00:09.

of the last day of school or something like that. There is the

:00:10.:00:15.

bones of Brexit to pick over, there is how do we go forward, and I'm

:00:16.:00:19.

sure the Secretary of State is pleased that we have a new Prime

:00:20.:00:22.

Minister, as we all are, that will help ease some of the uncertainties

:00:23.:00:25.

that were building. I think it is welcome that there will not be the

:00:26.:00:30.

several weeks of uncertainty, and I hope the Government uses the summer

:00:31.:00:34.

recess particularly to come up with some plans, because plans are badly

:00:35.:00:45.

needed. Last week we discussed the excellent energy and climate change

:00:46.:00:47.

committee report in investor confidence, and were able to discuss

:00:48.:00:51.

some of the issues that are affecting the sector, which have

:00:52.:00:55.

really been exacerbated by the Brexit wrote. I think it is fair to

:00:56.:01:01.

say, and it bears repeating time and time again - Scotland did not vote

:01:02.:01:06.

for Brexit, and we will be doing everything in our power to make sure

:01:07.:01:11.

that that is not done to us. I think we perhaps should change the lexicon

:01:12.:01:15.

slightly, and refer to this either as exit or perhaps Wexit. Scotland

:01:16.:01:24.

is not for leaving. Our Government has united around effort is to keep

:01:25.:01:28.

Scotland in the European Union. But that uncertainty is afflicting the

:01:29.:01:34.

United Kingdom following the vote will have effects on us whilst that

:01:35.:01:39.

clarity of our position in the European Union works out. Today, in

:01:40.:01:44.

terms of energy bills, the Guardian was reporting research that

:01:45.:01:50.

suggested 12 providers have pooled their cheapest fixed rate tariffs

:01:51.:01:54.

and replaced them with more expensive deals since June 23. That

:01:55.:01:58.

is the impact that this is having. That is the impact that will be had

:01:59.:02:02.

on consumers and those who cannot afford to pay more. There is the

:02:03.:02:05.

impact of the weak pound, and what that will mean in terms of our call

:02:06.:02:09.

cost as a net importer of electricity. These things will have

:02:10.:02:16.

impact. They will drive our bills, and I think it is an unfortunate

:02:17.:02:21.

consequence of the Brexit vote. There is also uncertainty around the

:02:22.:02:26.

huge river interconnection. I think it is important we have

:02:27.:02:30.

interconnection. -- the future ground interconnection. I think that

:02:31.:02:33.

is a sensible aim for the Government to have. I have said again and again

:02:34.:02:38.

that we should not see it as a way to import cheap elders are deeper on

:02:39.:02:42.

the continent, which as the Secretary of State said, I think we

:02:43.:02:46.

should be using it to export elegant city to the continent, and looking

:02:47.:02:54.

to invest in domestic low-carbon electricity generation, which

:02:55.:02:58.

Scotland has immense and highly enviable potential. -- we should be

:02:59.:03:05.

using it to export electricity. The idea of importing cheap relativity

:03:06.:03:08.

is questionable, giving the assumptions that will be built into

:03:09.:03:16.

the sums in terms of decisions which may not look so good when the pound

:03:17.:03:20.

is daring not so well against the euro. These things will come out in

:03:21.:03:27.

the wash, as we say in Scotland, but there is a requirement to look at

:03:28.:03:30.

energy policy, at interconnection, and see whether it is the right

:03:31.:03:35.

thing to do. There is also the large question of Hinkley. We have had

:03:36.:03:38.

some discussion about that. It will not come as any is a prize to anyone

:03:39.:03:41.

on the Government benches that we on this site are not in favour of that.

:03:42.:03:48.

-- it will not come as a surprise. Its beers repeating. The economic

:03:49.:03:53.

salt Hinkley where, in my view and in my party's view, highly dubious.

:03:54.:04:01.

-- the economic 's of Hinkley. The fundamental economics of it have

:04:02.:04:05.

only been undermined by the Brexit wrote. We need to look at it again.

:04:06.:04:09.

We cannot afford to have all of our eggs in this particular basket,

:04:10.:04:14.

because if it does not happening, and I sincerely suspect it will not

:04:15.:04:18.

happen, there is a rather large hole to be filled, and we cannot be in a

:04:19.:04:23.

position like we are with the Brexit board, where we enter the unknown

:04:24.:04:24.

with no back-up plan. It quite is shocking that element

:04:25.:04:40.

estimates have been driven up for the cost of Hinkley to 37 billion,

:04:41.:04:49.

rather than 14 billion. The costs are eye watering and given the

:04:50.:04:56.

extent to which this is an international project there are

:04:57.:04:59.

questions as to whether the cost will rise further still. It is time

:05:00.:05:05.

to have a sincere look at the plans, decide whether it is possible. My

:05:06.:05:11.

assumption will be that it will not, and find a back-up plan that we

:05:12.:05:15.

require. There are huge strains on our energy system and if we do not

:05:16.:05:19.

fill them then the bread and butter of keeping the lights on will beat

:05:20.:05:24.

Pitt in jeopardy, perhaps not today, but in decades to come. That is

:05:25.:05:30.

incumbent on Government to act and act now. We also need clarity from

:05:31.:05:36.

the Government in terms of the position about the internal energy

:05:37.:05:40.

market in the European union. The report last week about the potential

:05:41.:05:46.

of being out with that system adding an extra ?500 million power and to

:05:47.:05:53.

the cost of our energy system is a sobering reality when the Government

:05:54.:06:00.

as I haul is indulged in the summer homework working out how we get out

:06:01.:06:04.

of this particular pickle I would suggest strongly that one of the

:06:05.:06:08.

things that needs to be high up the agenda is making sure that we keep

:06:09.:06:11.

the cooperation because it delivers for us here but also for people

:06:12.:06:21.

abroad it will help us meet energy costs and should not be sold down

:06:22.:06:26.

the river likely. To maintain security of supply time has come to

:06:27.:06:34.

scrap Hinkley, invest in viable and cheaper forms of domestic energy,

:06:35.:06:40.

including onshore wind, we need to lift the embargo that has been

:06:41.:06:44.

placed on it. We need the auctions that the Secretary of State has been

:06:45.:06:50.

talked about. There should be the widest possible and technology

:06:51.:06:53.

neutral, and nothing should be excluded from biting into it, we

:06:54.:06:57.

need to get serious about building the new gas plants that have been

:06:58.:07:02.

suggested. I will make the case. And again, if we can get the anomaly of

:07:03.:07:06.

transmission charging sorted we are ready to go, Scotland can provide a

:07:07.:07:15.

significant contribution to reducing the whole that is coming in terms of

:07:16.:07:22.

energy production. And across these islands we need to invest in energy

:07:23.:07:26.

efficiency. There is strong work from the Scottish Government and

:07:27.:07:30.

this needs to be replicated across these islands. If we are going to

:07:31.:07:35.

meet what is an ever more challenging set of circumstances

:07:36.:07:39.

around about energy, where we get it, the best way of doing that is to

:07:40.:07:45.

use less of it, the benefits to everyone are substantial in the long

:07:46.:07:51.

run. To climate change, I would agree with the member for Warrington

:07:52.:07:56.

South who is no longer here, it is regrettable UK will not be a member

:07:57.:08:03.

of the European Union. I to the Secretary of State for her role in

:08:04.:08:06.

the Paris talks. She played a strong hand. Not as strong at hand as I and

:08:07.:08:11.

others might have wanted but it was a strong hand played well that

:08:12.:08:16.

resulted in a pretty good deal. The fact that we are no longer going to

:08:17.:08:21.

be at the heart of the decision-making process is

:08:22.:08:23.

regrettable because the UK can be proud of what it has done in terms

:08:24.:08:28.

of climate change, and there is more it could offer at the European

:08:29.:08:32.

Union. That is the reality. We need to work out how in terms of our

:08:33.:08:37.

renewed relationship with the European union that will happen. But

:08:38.:08:43.

there will be an absence and that is regrettable. I have specific

:08:44.:08:48.

questions and they have been touched upon around the process and the

:08:49.:08:53.

impact of Brexit on our commitments from the Paris talks. Our nationally

:08:54.:09:00.

defined contribution was the European union's NDC and read that

:09:01.:09:11.

applies to as, I am not sure, but I assume it does. We can and should do

:09:12.:09:15.

more. There are issues around ratification of the deal that I am

:09:16.:09:25.

not clear about. Do we have two ratify this before the Brexit deal

:09:26.:09:30.

is concluded? Is there an impact on the European Union as a whole? And

:09:31.:09:39.

in terms of EU ratification process I understand that requires all

:09:40.:09:42.

member states to ratify that before they can ratify it as a whole.

:09:43.:09:48.

Ultimately the UN requires the 55 countries sold are -- so are the

:09:49.:09:56.

implications for us, for the European Union, as the implications

:09:57.:09:58.

for the entire deal if we are not able to do that? I may not answer

:09:59.:10:09.

all his questions on this particular intervention but just to say because

:10:10.:10:15.

I did not pick it up, we are pushing for early ratification of the Paris

:10:16.:10:19.

treaty on behalf of the United Kingdom. I thank the Secretary of

:10:20.:10:23.

State for that intervention and welcome that. That is progress and I

:10:24.:10:28.

hope that can be done. There will not be opposition from these benches

:10:29.:10:35.

in terms of that. The biggest single statement we have heard, I do not

:10:36.:10:39.

want to go through the negatives, on the eve of palace we had the suite

:10:40.:10:44.

and this hour, the sewer of the carbon capture that my honourable

:10:45.:10:55.

friend has mentioned, -- the sour of the carbon capture. But I question

:10:56.:11:08.

the deliverability of that. The commitment had the caveat that it

:11:09.:11:12.

would only be done if and when it was possible and I would suggest

:11:13.:11:20.

that the combination of effect of invest in confidence, the lack of

:11:21.:11:25.

clarity around a number of these things, will make it more difficult

:11:26.:11:30.

to meet the conditions required to have that call taken off the system.

:11:31.:11:36.

There is a requirement to look at that again and in terms of the fifth

:11:37.:11:40.

carbon budget which I think we all welcome the fact that we are now

:11:41.:11:46.

getting it and I agree with the climate change committee's

:11:47.:11:49.

recommendations that we need the action plan. It is the

:11:50.:11:54.

bread-and-butter of this, is how we do it. Ambition, determination is

:11:55.:11:59.

there that it will only come to be if we have a viable plan. It is

:12:00.:12:05.

achievable that it has become more uncertain because of the Brexit

:12:06.:12:12.

fought. To conclude I think that we are in probably a better place as of

:12:13.:12:16.

yesterday's events than many of us expected to be. We do not have the

:12:17.:12:22.

added unwelcome uncertainty of a nine week leadership contest but

:12:23.:12:25.

there is a power of work that needs to be done by Government. I hope the

:12:26.:12:31.

Secretary of State continues in her post to do that and I look forward

:12:32.:12:37.

to continuing to work with her and marking her homework after the

:12:38.:12:43.

summer recess. It is a pleasure to speak in the

:12:44.:12:48.

debates today. Opposition being opposition often fires questions to

:12:49.:12:52.

Government and this is a difficult time for governments to answer all

:12:53.:12:55.

the questions because we are about to change Prime Minister is. There

:12:56.:12:59.

will probably be a substantial reshuffle in Government and then

:13:00.:13:03.

those ministers will get down to dealing with the consequences of

:13:04.:13:06.

what the British people have decided. The essential point, and

:13:07.:13:11.

many of the points made in the speech today, what is going to

:13:12.:13:18.

happen with regulations, I do not leave that this parliament is going

:13:19.:13:22.

to go through every piece of European legislation that has been

:13:23.:13:24.

passed over the past 40 years and decide whether to keep it or not.

:13:25.:13:28.

The most likely outcome is enabling legislation that in needles

:13:29.:13:33.

everything we have agreed with the EU into UK legislation and then this

:13:34.:13:37.

Government and future governments at their leisure can what they want to

:13:38.:13:41.

do. That is the most sensible approach and that is the most

:13:42.:13:43.

sensible approach and that might been that in some areas some

:13:44.:13:47.

legislation me get rid of, in other areas we strengthen. Whatever the

:13:48.:13:50.

outcome this parliament makes sure that picks what is best for our

:13:51.:13:56.

country. A lot of legislation has been agreed with 27, 28 other

:13:57.:14:01.

states. Some of it may not be that applicable relevant to us but there

:14:02.:14:05.

may be things that we want to improve standards in and as my

:14:06.:14:11.

honourable friend made the point, our record on environmental, clean

:14:12.:14:17.

air and everything else predates a lot of our joining the EU. Quite

:14:18.:14:22.

often the Duke has been more vociferous in these areas than many

:14:23.:14:27.

states of the European union. -- quite often the UK has been more

:14:28.:14:33.

vociferous. The Queen air act was about stopping people burning things

:14:34.:14:45.

in London -- bit clean air act says nothing about particulates because

:14:46.:14:50.

diesel cars had not been invented. Things move on. Just because we are

:14:51.:14:56.

out of the EU does not mean that we cannot make sensible decisions that

:14:57.:15:00.

affect our citizens from things such as you suggest. My guess... I will

:15:01.:15:10.

make progress. Essentially what we will have is enabling legislation

:15:11.:15:12.

and we will deal with the consequences of Britain leaving in

:15:13.:15:15.

terms of the detail of European directives that we have signed over

:15:16.:15:20.

the years at our leisure, as governments determine priorities. I

:15:21.:15:26.

want to move on and talk about energy. I am sure that when the

:15:27.:15:33.

Right honourable lady was given her task the Prime Minister said do not

:15:34.:15:38.

let the lights go out. Given that the capacity and the gathered and

:15:39.:15:45.

the manned, that is probably her principal concern and her job, and

:15:46.:15:49.

the principal concern of her predecessors, that we do not have

:15:50.:15:55.

that situation. I am pleased with many things that the Government has

:15:56.:15:59.

done but we have two increase capacity. While I disagree with the

:16:00.:16:05.

comments from the SNP is that we need nuclear capacity as part of

:16:06.:16:09.

that. Whether it is a good deal or a bad deal depends on crystal ball

:16:10.:16:16.

gazing. All I predict is that prices go up and down and I do not know

:16:17.:16:23.

when that happens. In the last Parliament the Labour Party had a

:16:24.:16:26.

policy of freezing energy prices and when that policy was made by SIS

:16:27.:16:36.

began to fall. Energy goes up and down and that is to do with the

:16:37.:16:40.

market, it is not necessarily as being in the EU and I would also

:16:41.:16:44.

caution joint long-term conclusions about what has happened in the

:16:45.:16:48.

markets when it has only been two weeks and since we had a vote to

:16:49.:16:53.

leave EU. Long-term interest rates have fallen, the pound has gone up

:16:54.:16:56.

and condoned, markets have got up and gone down, there will be a bumpy

:16:57.:17:01.

ride in the markets in the next couple of years, but we as a UK

:17:02.:17:10.

Government has got to do our bit for increased capacity. That means

:17:11.:17:16.

nuclear power, more gas, fracking, I know a lot of people do not like

:17:17.:17:20.

fracking that it is a natural resource we have to make use of. It

:17:21.:17:27.

was mentioned about running down coal fired power stations, I think

:17:28.:17:31.

until we are certain that some of the investment is starting to kick

:17:32.:17:35.

off I would be reluctant to close off some of that capacity because I

:17:36.:17:38.

think it will be a challenge for us to keep the lights on in the future.

:17:39.:17:45.

The problem is that we have in capacity are largely caused by not

:17:46.:17:49.

that current Government or the Coalition Government but the

:17:50.:17:52.

previous Labour Government which put off making decisions such as having

:17:53.:17:57.

a White Paper on nuclear power and I welcome what the Coalition

:17:58.:18:00.

Government and this Government has done but we really do need to

:18:01.:18:04.

improve confidence and improve investment so that we have more

:18:05.:18:09.

capacity in the energy market. I welcome a lot of what the Government

:18:10.:18:14.

has done. There is no reason why this country should not be still at

:18:15.:18:18.

the forefront of fighting environmental damage. I still think

:18:19.:18:23.

that this country can provide lessons to the European union. I do

:18:24.:18:27.

not believe our leading is going to be a disaster, I believe it is a

:18:28.:18:32.

great opportunity for our country. We have to make it a success and I

:18:33.:18:36.

am perfectly sure that this parliament is perfectly capable of

:18:37.:18:40.

making decisions that benefit our citizens rather better than some of

:18:41.:18:42.

those made within the EU. It is a pleasure to follow on from

:18:43.:18:53.

the honourable gentleman. We have heard today that environmental

:18:54.:18:58.

problems do not respect borders and I would like to posit an alternative

:18:59.:19:04.

argument, which is that everything was pretty much OK, to say things

:19:05.:19:12.

were not that OK and Britain's membership of the EU has been

:19:13.:19:16.

instrumental in the UK's improvement of its air quality, of cleaning up

:19:17.:19:23.

water elution, of our management of waste, protection and enhancement of

:19:24.:19:30.

biodiversity and in giving us a global platform in which we can show

:19:31.:19:35.

global leadership in tackling climate change. This year the

:19:36.:19:40.

environmental audit committee, which I chair, carried out an inquiry into

:19:41.:19:48.

the effects of that membership on UK environmental protection and we

:19:49.:19:51.

heard from a variety of witnesses, from businesses, academics,

:19:52.:19:57.

politicians and NGOs, and the overwhelming majority told our

:19:58.:20:03.

committee that the environment was better protected as a result of our

:20:04.:20:09.

EU membership. We don't have to look too far to find examples of this. In

:20:10.:20:14.

the 1970s the Thames was biologically dead and it may not

:20:15.:20:19.

like any cleaner from the Palace of Westminster than it did in the 70s

:20:20.:20:24.

but it serves as a reminder of how EU membership has cleaned up our

:20:25.:20:30.

environment. We can see seals, dolphins, I've yet to see one but I

:20:31.:20:34.

think otters are now up in the high-end of the Thames, and this has

:20:35.:20:41.

been repeated, this success story has been repeated up and down the

:20:42.:20:46.

country as once dead rivers have been brought back to life, where

:20:47.:20:50.

once it was dangerous to swim now it is safe for people and wildlife and

:20:51.:20:55.

the EU legislation has cleaned up beaches and rivers because of that

:20:56.:21:02.

water framework directive and the Marine strategy directives which

:21:03.:21:06.

have encouraged us, and it hasn't been easy, and I've paid tribute to

:21:07.:21:11.

the minister for Defra on this, to set out that ecological eat coherent

:21:12.:21:18.

network of marine protection zones. I give way. Will my honourable

:21:19.:21:26.

colleague agree that one of the things we found in the study was

:21:27.:21:32.

that the European Union is a union which has minimum standards that are

:21:33.:21:36.

ratcheted up and it doesn't allow individual members to under cut that

:21:37.:21:42.

and as a platform across the globe for best practice? That is right and

:21:43.:21:48.

the setting of minimum standards does not repent individual states

:21:49.:21:54.

from going above without but it also provides that common baseline and a

:21:55.:22:01.

harmonised market for products. That is absolutely crucial for UK

:22:02.:22:07.

witnesses as we move forward into the uncertainties of a Brexit world.

:22:08.:22:12.

EU membership has also been keen on our quality and successive

:22:13.:22:16.

governments have dragged their feet on this difficult issue. Since 2010

:22:17.:22:22.

the UK has been in breach of EU air quality limits in 31 of its 43 error

:22:23.:22:31.

zones, one of which is in Wakefield, I know London tends to get all the

:22:32.:22:36.

attention and as a cyclist in London I am aware of high pollution but

:22:37.:22:43.

areas like Wakefield with the motorways crossing by it have severe

:22:44.:22:49.

burdens of vascular disease and lung disease as a result of breaching

:22:50.:22:55.

these limits. EU legislation has allowed UK campaigners to hold the

:22:56.:22:58.

Government to account, the High Court has ordered Defra ministers to

:22:59.:23:04.

come up with new plans and in court they were backing allegations that

:23:05.:23:10.

these plans are still insufficient to bring our quality into line with

:23:11.:23:14.

EU standards, and there are questions about what will happen to

:23:15.:23:18.

our standards in the new Brexit world. On biodiversity, the nature

:23:19.:23:24.

directives have preserved some of the most treasured places, plants

:23:25.:23:30.

and species in our country. Many of our best loved sites, Dartmoor,

:23:31.:23:39.

Snowdonia, are protected via the EU. Thank keeper giving way. On that

:23:40.:23:46.

issue of habitats direct is, would she agree that even if we do keep

:23:47.:23:51.

that, as we hope the lead do, in legislation, we must make sure there

:23:52.:23:56.

is proper enforcement because that is what the EU has given us and we

:23:57.:24:02.

need to create a new enforcement mechanism that is as rigorous as

:24:03.:24:06.

possible. I don't think anything can be guaranteed, the first step is to

:24:07.:24:12.

hear from ministers, I wish the honourable gentleman well in

:24:13.:24:16.

whatever future role he is called on to play in the Government and he has

:24:17.:24:21.

been an excellent minister and appeared before us many times on the

:24:22.:24:26.

committee, but I don't think anything should be taken for granted

:24:27.:24:31.

because in my debates on the EU referendum campaign, I was a

:24:32.:24:36.

passionate pro-remain, but there were different versions of Brexit

:24:37.:24:42.

depending on who you were debating with, we had the member for Redruth

:24:43.:24:47.

who was minister in the Department for Food and Rural Affairs, who

:24:48.:24:51.

described the directives as spirit crushing and said if we voted to

:24:52.:24:58.

leave they would go. Whether his version of events is the same as the

:24:59.:25:04.

new Prime Minister's, we wait to see, but he also said he thought

:25:05.:25:08.

leaving the EU would free up common agricultural payments, up to ?2

:25:09.:25:13.

billion for payments to farmers in, and I quote, insurance and

:25:14.:25:18.

incentives for farmers. Nowhere do I hear about the need for protection

:25:19.:25:24.

of species, protection of wildlife and plant life, words are vital

:25:25.:25:31.

services provided by soils and bogs and the need for restoration of bogs

:25:32.:25:37.

and influence, which is something an excellent report on soil that was

:25:38.:25:42.

published a month ago recommended and which was echoed by the climate

:25:43.:25:49.

change committee's report, which was published this morning. We have seen

:25:50.:25:55.

otters, hen Harriers and it turns making a comeback and I think the

:25:56.:26:00.

referendum result could put all this progress at risk. The EU has also

:26:01.:26:05.

laid a key role in promoting investment in sustainable this is

:26:06.:26:11.

technologies. Investors nuclear policy signals from strong

:26:12.:26:17.

legislative frameworks, and those frameworks are provided by the

:26:18.:26:22.

climate change act but our current inquiry into transport and Treasury

:26:23.:26:26.

is finding some mixed messages coming from that on government and

:26:27.:26:31.

especially the question I've posed to the Secretary of State under

:26:32.:26:36.

carbon capture storage competition being cancelled, which has a

:26:37.:26:43.

debilitating effect on investor confidence and we do not want to get

:26:44.:26:48.

into a position where consumers aren't spending, investors aren't

:26:49.:26:51.

investing, because that is disastrous for the economy and for

:26:52.:26:59.

environmental progress. On waste, 20 years ago the UK sent almost all of

:27:00.:27:07.

our household waste to landfill. Now we recycle almost 45% of household

:27:08.:27:14.

waste, although I was disappointed to see those numbers dip last year.

:27:15.:27:19.

The Treasury introduced the landfill tax escalator in response to the EU

:27:20.:27:25.

than full directive and since then the waste and resources management

:27:26.:27:28.

sector has invested five young pounds in new infrastructure over

:27:29.:27:33.

the last five years thanks to this long-term policy signal and the

:27:34.:27:38.

environmental services Association told our committee that. Those

:27:39.:27:43.

policy signals are vital and we need to keep investing in infrastructure

:27:44.:27:49.

if we are to make those 2020 waste targets. If they do still apply in

:27:50.:27:59.

UK law. A set of the gin! To keep me going, that's better. A slice next

:28:00.:28:07.

time, please. I want to conclude by saying a couple of things on Micro

:28:08.:28:11.

plastics. We are concluding an inquiry into Micro plastics, tiny

:28:12.:28:19.

particles of elastic that can come from larger particles of plastic

:28:20.:28:24.

that are broken down or they can come in shaving foams, deodorants,

:28:25.:28:30.

toothpastes, and facial scrubs, and it seems to be the higher end ones

:28:31.:28:34.

that have not been cleaned up as quickly as the mass volume scrubs,

:28:35.:28:40.

and we are finding they have washed down the sink, passed through

:28:41.:28:43.

filtration systems and ended up in the sea, and if you have had half a

:28:44.:28:51.

dozen oysters, you will have consumed 50 Micro plastic particles,

:28:52.:28:54.

so for those of us who like seafood that is something to reflect on. Bon

:28:55.:29:03.

appetit. Over a third of fish in the English Channel are contaminated

:29:04.:29:07.

with Micro plastics, and as an island nation we have to take this

:29:08.:29:13.

seriously, and the way to do that is to work with our partners in the EU.

:29:14.:29:18.

That is what the member for Camborne and Redruth told our committee when

:29:19.:29:25.

he gave evidence just before the referendum, so if the EU takes

:29:26.:29:31.

action to address an environmental problem, it creates a level playing

:29:32.:29:34.

field for businesses and creates an opportunity to market environmental

:29:35.:29:40.

solutions. There are a whole series of questions now raised by Brexit,

:29:41.:29:45.

the issue of the circular economy package, the EU's drive to get us to

:29:46.:29:52.

reduce the waste and recycle more and have a secure sustainable supply

:29:53.:29:57.

of raw materials, paper, glass or plastics, which would have driven

:29:58.:30:04.

new green jobs in this UK economy and the decision to abandon this has

:30:05.:30:07.

left investors reeling. We have heard from my honourable friend the

:30:08.:30:13.

Shadow Secretary about the Siemens decision to freeze their investment

:30:14.:30:18.

in that wind industry in Yorkshire and the Humber, and we face a

:30:19.:30:26.

protracted period of uncertainty. The minister, when he appeared

:30:27.:30:29.

before our committee, told us that a vote to leave would result in a long

:30:30.:30:36.

and tortuous they juicy nation. That hasn't even begun yet. The period

:30:37.:30:43.

ahead of us is fraught with risks. The UK risks not being regarded as a

:30:44.:30:48.

safe bet, investors may no longer wish to invest their cash here, and

:30:49.:30:55.

contracts now are no longer being signed in London because the risk of

:30:56.:31:00.

London no longer being part of the European single market means people

:31:01.:31:05.

want to sign their contracts in a European country so in the event

:31:06.:31:09.

that something goes wrong, contract law will be enforceable across all

:31:10.:31:15.

the countries of the EU, so it will have a very big effect on our

:31:16.:31:21.

financial and legal services. I will give way. Could I ask whether she

:31:22.:31:29.

agrees, in terms of the emerging recycling market across Europe, with

:31:30.:31:34.

us possibly a sink tariffs and different regulations, it will mean

:31:35.:31:39.

people will not invest in Britain but instead in Europe? That is the

:31:40.:31:46.

point I was making, and when looking where to put new foreign direct

:31:47.:31:51.

investment into the economy, they will look again and go to the area

:31:52.:31:57.

of least risk, and those risks are being active now in the economy. We

:31:58.:32:05.

found out in our report that the environment and the UK's membership

:32:06.:32:11.

of the EU being a two-way street, it forced us to take action more

:32:12.:32:16.

quickly on waste and water and also gave us a platform to project our

:32:17.:32:21.

own values, especially in the area of climate change, and Lord born

:32:22.:32:26.

told the committee the UK's voice was loader in Paris and I worry

:32:27.:32:32.

about the global agreement received at Paris and perhaps damage to

:32:33.:32:41.

achieving those climate change targets that withdrawing from the EU

:32:42.:32:47.

could have. To conclude, in the 1970s the UK was the dirty man of

:32:48.:32:51.

Europe and economically the sixth man of Europe. We have cleaner

:32:52.:32:58.

beaches, we drive fuel efficient cars, we have more fuel efficient

:32:59.:33:02.

vacuum cleaners and we can hold the Government to account on air

:33:03.:33:08.

pollution. Environmental problems do not respect borders and they require

:33:09.:33:10.

much longer term solutions then eight five-year term of government.

:33:11.:33:17.

EU membership allowed the UK to be a world leader in tackling

:33:18.:33:21.

environmental problems with our science base and our civil servants

:33:22.:33:26.

to provide nuts and builds solution to these challenges and created

:33:27.:33:33.

British with this as a world leader, whether retrofitting diesel buses in

:33:34.:33:37.

China are helping the Indian government to water management for

:33:38.:33:41.

the Ganges delta. These are services we can export proudly because we

:33:42.:33:47.

have been cleaned in the EU and the result has caused political and

:33:48.:33:53.

economic uncertainty and I hope we will get reassurances from the

:33:54.:33:57.

Government about the threats it poses to our common home and the

:33:58.:34:02.

actions any new government will take to make sure we leave a better

:34:03.:34:03.

future for our children. I am very pleased to follow my

:34:04.:34:13.

honourable friend and I have a great deal of the night before as the

:34:14.:34:17.

chair of the Select Committee, but I would like to say aye would like to

:34:18.:34:20.

be more positive about life post EU than she has been today. I am

:34:21.:34:26.

pleased to speak on this important subject and I am pleased that the

:34:27.:34:30.

opposition have brought this subject today, talking about the EU energy

:34:31.:34:35.

and environmental implications post EU and the environment is something

:34:36.:34:40.

we cannot avoid. It effects us all. The air we breathe, the water we

:34:41.:34:45.

drink, the food we eat, the soil which produces it, the trees which

:34:46.:34:50.

take in carbon dioxide. Absolutely every single thing we touch and it

:34:51.:34:55.

is essential that we deliver policies that will determine that we

:34:56.:35:00.

can go forward to having a healthy life and that all God's creatures

:35:01.:35:05.

can have a healthy life as well. As has been said many times today, much

:35:06.:35:10.

of our environmental legislation that we adhere to does stem from

:35:11.:35:16.

Europe and, actually, yes, we have been instrumental in writing a lot

:35:17.:35:22.

of it. The birds directive, the habitats directive, the bathing

:35:23.:35:26.

water directive, the quality directive, but I did want to touch

:35:27.:35:30.

on the something mentioned in the motion today which said that little

:35:31.:35:35.

mention of environmental protection was made during the EU referendum

:35:36.:35:42.

run-up. Actually, many people, me included and some of my honourable

:35:43.:35:47.

colleagues, did refer to these areas of the environment, including many

:35:48.:35:52.

from the environmental from Europe group. Interestingly, what I believe

:35:53.:35:58.

happened, was that the media give it a little average. The statistics

:35:59.:36:05.

show it only got 1.7% coverage in all media to do with the referendum

:36:06.:36:12.

and, on television, how much coverage did it get? 0%. It wasn't

:36:13.:36:17.

that people were talking about it, it just wasn't picked up. That is

:36:18.:36:21.

one issue we face. When you talk about it, people engage with that. I

:36:22.:36:28.

set up an environmental Forum to which I held a big debate about the

:36:29.:36:35.

EU and the environment. It wasn't pro one side or the other but it was

:36:36.:36:39.

a talking point. Over 100 people turned up to this event. It shows

:36:40.:36:44.

people are interested. What we have got to do now is, we are where we

:36:45.:36:48.

are, we are out of Europe and I believe we have to move forward

:36:49.:36:52.

positively. I will just mention if you smoke concerns that have arisen

:36:53.:36:58.

to show that we have some immediate problems to sort out, Minister. For

:36:59.:37:02.

example, a number of Londoners have spoken to me you are about to sign

:37:03.:37:09.

higher level stewardship contracts, protecting really precious bits of

:37:10.:37:14.

our habitat and those are being held off. I would like some reassurance

:37:15.:37:20.

about what will happen with those things. Where will the money come

:37:21.:37:24.

from? What we don't want is to lose those wonderful bit of protective

:37:25.:37:29.

habitat when people are waiting to see what happens. Similarly, with

:37:30.:37:34.

other greening issues for farmers. We do not want to risk farmers being

:37:35.:37:38.

forced to plough up field margins were edges were ponds because they

:37:39.:37:43.

don't know what is happening with environmental protection money where

:37:44.:37:46.

it is coming from. Some reassurance in the short term would go down

:37:47.:37:52.

really well. We had to bear in mind that no one has mentioned farmers

:37:53.:37:55.

and landowners but they own the land we are talking about. We have to

:37:56.:38:02.

work with them. Likewise, fishermen. I have heard rumours, I don't know

:38:03.:38:07.

if they are true, fishermen are ignoring money from marine

:38:08.:38:09.

protection because they think it doesn't apply any more that we have

:38:10.:38:12.

left Europe. Reassurance would be helpful. What now? I did mention we

:38:13.:38:21.

should be positive in our approach and I see this as a real opportunity

:38:22.:38:26.

to take ownership of the environment and to adopt the best systems that

:38:27.:38:35.

will work for us. This is the time to start building more than ever

:38:36.:38:40.

before and we have talked about it on the committee before, to build in

:38:41.:38:43.

sustainability and to build in a healthy future and to think more

:38:44.:38:48.

about how every single Department across government delivers on these

:38:49.:38:53.

things. How infrastructure works when it is going through special

:38:54.:38:57.

landscapes and injured trees, how our homes can be more sustainable

:38:58.:39:01.

and we have touched on all of this and I am pleased the government is

:39:02.:39:04.

undertaking an enquiry to look again at sustainable urban drainage

:39:05.:39:11.

systems and, also, carbon efficiency and energy efficiency, but we needed

:39:12.:39:17.

to build these in. Also, how to reduce flooding impact. The Defra

:39:18.:39:20.

Select Committee is doing an enquiry and it will bring forward useful

:39:21.:39:25.

ideas on how to build in resilience to flooding into our land-use plans

:39:26.:39:29.

and this is the time to get these things in. I see it as a great

:39:30.:39:34.

opportunity and how energy generation, how we can do more and

:39:35.:39:37.

our low carbon energy generation and more on transport to have lower

:39:38.:39:42.

emissions to reduce those error pollution statistics we have got. It

:39:43.:39:48.

is all possible with clear land use planning and thought. I have talked

:39:49.:39:52.

to lots of bodies already about these issues, from the RSPB to the

:39:53.:39:59.

wetland trust, to the wetland trust for, to farmers and landowners. We

:40:00.:40:05.

have to work with them and continue to support them if we are going to

:40:06.:40:13.

deliver what we need. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, there are things I

:40:14.:40:16.

would like to suggest we should consider. The EU legislation sets

:40:17.:40:23.

are targets. This has been referred to by my honourable friend from

:40:24.:40:26.

Wakefield on error pollution in particular and water pollution. It

:40:27.:40:33.

is the EU legislation which others to account, said last targets and

:40:34.:40:36.

then took us to task if we didn't take those targets. We must ensure

:40:37.:40:42.

that, going forward, we set targets and that we have a system of

:40:43.:40:47.

checking and we have a system of reporting and, I suggest annually,

:40:48.:40:53.

on how we are doing. I would very much urge that we do not lower our

:40:54.:40:57.

quality standards for our water quality standards. We have heard the

:40:58.:41:03.

shocking statistics that 50,000 people are dying every year from the

:41:04.:41:07.

pollution related diseases. We would be crazy to the word those

:41:08.:41:12.

standards. I am sure you are listening on that, Minister. A new

:41:13.:41:16.

thoughts on how to progress. They have been referred to by other

:41:17.:41:21.

members, but let's take those relevant EU directives, transpose

:41:22.:41:26.

them into UK law and amend them as we think that as we go on, but let's

:41:27.:41:32.

at least have them. Let's ensure we have the special areas of

:41:33.:41:35.

conservation and let the war on the world stage. We need to do more

:41:36.:41:40.

error, increase our global influence with bodies like the UN and the

:41:41.:41:44.

OECD, the animal welfare legislation is important and we need to stay

:41:45.:41:50.

part of nature 2000. I know and I applaud the fact that the Defra has

:41:51.:41:57.

been working away on its, I won't seek elusive, it's 25 year plans for

:41:58.:42:02.

farming and the environment, which is excellent, but let's see those

:42:03.:42:07.

plans as soon as possible, but make sure the environment is absolutely

:42:08.:42:10.

inextricably interwoven with those farming production targets. This is

:42:11.:42:16.

a great opportunity, that make greening slightly less complicated

:42:17.:42:20.

for the farmers, Minister, because I know most farmers are keen to

:42:21.:42:26.

undertake greening aspects. Some of the forms they have to fill out and

:42:27.:42:29.

the demands are torturously complicated, to the point, and I

:42:30.:42:33.

only heard this this morning from my barn owl expert who works with

:42:34.:42:36.

farmers in the south-west, some are thinking of not bothering in future

:42:37.:42:42.

if we cannot simplify it a bit to deliver what we need to put make it

:42:43.:42:47.

easy to do. Let's get in the soil monitoring while we are rewriting

:42:48.:42:51.

the plans and recognise that soil is an ecosystem and not just a growing

:42:52.:42:59.

medium to be abused. Let's deal with the circular economy, Minister. The

:43:00.:43:04.

effort suggests it could bring in a ?22 billion of savings, let's have a

:43:05.:43:07.

look at how it can and build all that in. So, subsidies, I reiterate,

:43:08.:43:15.

they will happen to be part of the system but let's work out how they

:43:16.:43:19.

are placed on our landowners and farmers and I suggest, Minister,

:43:20.:43:24.

that they are not just based on land ownership, but the farmers and

:43:25.:43:27.

landowners have to deliver something for it in terms of green services,

:43:28.:43:32.

whether it is a good production for whatever, but they must deliver for

:43:33.:43:36.

it and potentially caps should be put on so if you have 3000 makers

:43:37.:43:40.

producing parable, is it right that you clock in so why not have a cab

:43:41.:43:45.

so that everything is on a level playing field? I know farmers and

:43:46.:43:51.

landowners are discussing this countrywide. Heino environmental

:43:52.:43:55.

organisations are discussing this. Let's put all their findings

:43:56.:43:59.

together and build them in to our forward-thinking plan and, finally,

:44:00.:44:03.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I will touch on energy because it is in the

:44:04.:44:08.

motion. I am pleased that the Secretary of State has committed to

:44:09.:44:13.

delivering secure, affordable, clean energy and I welcome the system

:44:14.:44:16.

which is enabling consumers to switch to lower cost energy, to help

:44:17.:44:23.

with bills. I really have welcomed the commitment to lead on climate

:44:24.:44:26.

change. It has been referred to by many honourable colleagues today and

:44:27.:44:33.

the early ratification and I reiterate decreases for that climate

:44:34.:44:35.

change system which had the honourable member from Aberdeen

:44:36.:44:39.

referred to. We are all together on that. This government has committed

:44:40.:44:46.

to low carbon energy. It is phasing out: and it is committed to nuclear

:44:47.:44:51.

and I will touch on nuclear. The south-west is pressing ahead with

:44:52.:44:54.

its commitment for Hinkley point. This is a crucial part of our

:44:55.:44:59.

economy, it can deliver 7% of our energy and I welcome the government

:45:00.:45:04.

involvement in establishing the National College for nuclear and

:45:05.:45:07.

there is a big spin off there in Somerset at Bridgwater College which

:45:08.:45:12.

is just linking up with by Somerset College in my constituency. That is

:45:13.:45:15.

swanning not only the ingenious but it is one of the new skills we will

:45:16.:45:20.

need to move forward in this low carbon energy sector which has got

:45:21.:45:24.

to be part of our brave new world. To conclude, let's not be negative

:45:25.:45:28.

about any of this, government must listen and I am sure they are. We

:45:29.:45:33.

must link farming with the environment very closely fought the

:45:34.:45:37.

good of the nation, to deliver for the environment, to deliver for us

:45:38.:45:41.

all in terms of health and well-being and in life chances going

:45:42.:45:51.

forward. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker for graciously allowing me

:45:52.:45:54.

to Mick McGiven speech in this really important debate. I am deeply

:45:55.:45:59.

honoured to be standing here in this chamber as the new member of

:46:00.:46:05.

Parliament for tooting. When I think about this chamber's long and proud

:46:06.:46:09.

history, the men and women who have sat here before me and all they have

:46:10.:46:15.

achieved, I feel humbled. Clement Attlee, now Bevan, very recently Jo

:46:16.:46:22.

Cox. But to name a few. I am also reminded of the vast

:46:23.:46:25.

responsibilities that we, in this chamber, are entrusted with and over

:46:26.:46:29.

the coming years and the magnitude of what we must now achieve for our

:46:30.:46:34.

country. I would like to talk a little bit about this task and about

:46:35.:46:37.

the mindset with which we should approach it. First of all, I would

:46:38.:46:41.

like to talk about where I come from. It is hard for me to

:46:42.:46:48.

adequately express my gratitude to the people of tooting for putting

:46:49.:46:52.

their trust in me. During my campaign, I said I would be a

:46:53.:46:58.

passionate, energetic and tireless representative for absolutely

:46:59.:47:02.

everyone in my constituency. It is with that promise that I intended to

:47:03.:47:07.

serve. Just two months ago, I was working day and night on the front

:47:08.:47:11.

line of the NHS as an emergency doctor in A Now I find myself

:47:12.:47:15.

wandering the corridors of Westminster, grappling with vast

:47:16.:47:19.

piles of booklets and mistaking offices for Lady's rooms. It has

:47:20.:47:26.

happened. It was a piece of good news which set me on the journey I

:47:27.:47:29.

am here today and that is the election of our new Mayor of London,

:47:30.:47:36.

my good friend, city can. He had the largest personal mandate in British

:47:37.:47:42.

personal history. From the first time I met Sadik, it was clear to me

:47:43.:47:46.

he was destined for greatness. When I became a councillor, he took the

:47:47.:47:49.

time to offer me support and guidance as he remembered well what

:47:50.:47:53.

it was like to suddenly find yourself in the responsibilities of

:47:54.:47:57.

elected office. He spent 11 years working tirelessly for the people of

:47:58.:48:02.

tooting. His commitment to equality, justice and inclusivity is

:48:03.:48:07.

inspirational. Whether he is celebrating International women's

:48:08.:48:11.

Day year after year, breaking bread with every religious community were

:48:12.:48:14.

talking to children about how they can achieve no matter what their

:48:15.:48:19.

background, his interactions are always warm and very welcoming. He

:48:20.:48:24.

truly believes in the power of people and communities and has shown

:48:25.:48:27.

that throughout his time representing tooting and now, the

:48:28.:48:31.

great City of London. He has made improving the environment a top

:48:32.:48:35.

priority in City Hall and has started tackling the important issue

:48:36.:48:40.

of air quality in London. This debate gives us an opportunity again

:48:41.:48:43.

to see what the difference we can make in the House when we get

:48:44.:48:47.

legislation right. Legislation like the clean air Act of 1956, past 60

:48:48.:48:52.

years ago, following the London smogs of the 1950s.

:48:53.:48:57.

I will endeavour to build on Sadiq's fine legacy. His shoes are big to

:48:58.:49:06.

fail but I have the benefit of much higher shoes to help! We share a lot

:49:07.:49:14.

in our history is an art characters, our surname, a love of football, a

:49:15.:49:21.

keen interest in boxing, and perhaps most importantly we are children of

:49:22.:49:28.

Tooting, now choosing to raise our families in the streets where we

:49:29.:49:32.

grew up. We have one important difference, my dad was not a bus

:49:33.:49:39.

driver. However, my mum did work in a local Vettel 's Haitian and

:49:40.:49:44.

perhaps Sadiq's father fills up his bus there. As a Tooting girl, I

:49:45.:49:52.

never liked when people say Tooting is becoming a fantastic place to

:49:53.:49:57.

live, anyone who has lived there knows it has always been great. The

:49:58.:50:02.

green open spaces, the iconic market and the lido opened for residents to

:50:03.:50:10.

swim out doors for 110 years. There has always been a rich tapestry of

:50:11.:50:15.

communities living harmoniously and that unity should be celebrated and

:50:16.:50:20.

I will defend it with every fibre of my being. That unity is woven into

:50:21.:50:27.

me, an essential part of who I am. When people ask me where I am from,

:50:28.:50:33.

I say I am half Polish, half Pakistani, raised in England,

:50:34.:50:38.

married a Welshman and I am 100% Tooting! What binds us to gather, in

:50:39.:50:45.

Tooting and across the country it is a sense of common purpose. The

:50:46.:50:52.

selflessness that drives community groups binds us together. Many local

:50:53.:50:58.

businesses not only fuel are thriving economy but bind us

:50:59.:51:03.

together. Saint Georges Hospital and our NHS, where everyone is treated

:51:04.:51:08.

with equal concern is based on their need binds us together. In these

:51:09.:51:14.

fragile times we should never forget the charities, businesses and

:51:15.:51:20.

national in situations are important not only because they provide a

:51:21.:51:23.

service that because they've wind us together. As local residents and as

:51:24.:51:31.

Schumann being is. Why am I see? Life wasn't easy growing up but I

:51:32.:51:36.

always had the bedrock that was the love and support of my mum Maria.

:51:37.:51:42.

Even in the face of adversity she was on her own, a single mum but

:51:43.:51:47.

like a small army Shari my brother and me with praise, providing a

:51:48.:51:52.

sense of possibility. She gave me hope, showing us that even people

:51:53.:51:57.

from our background can achieve anything with hard work. She

:51:58.:52:04.

instilled in me determination to help others who have seen hardship

:52:05.:52:09.

and to fight for social justice. But I am also here because of Labour. My

:52:10.:52:14.

dream of becoming a doctor became a reality not just due to hard work

:52:15.:52:20.

but because a Labour government made it financially possible for me to

:52:21.:52:24.

access a world-class medical school at Cambridge. That is one reason why

:52:25.:52:30.

my ambition will always be for Labour to win Palmer, not just to

:52:31.:52:35.

sit in opposition. I've served in an ice cream shop, fried eggs at a

:52:36.:52:41.

hotel, but my proudest job is being a wife and a mother. My heart first

:52:42.:52:46.

with the love I have for my husband and my two young daughters, aged

:52:47.:52:53.

three and just one. They are an immense source of strength for me

:52:54.:52:58.

and will continue to be so. We must now all look to those coming years.

:52:59.:53:04.

They will be turbulent and challenging and in the history will

:53:05.:53:10.

be made. This House will be responsible for shaping Britain's

:53:11.:53:16.

future by hiding and providing accountability for the most

:53:17.:53:18.

important negotiations are country has seen for decades. Important and

:53:19.:53:24.

a questions will be asked about who we are and who we want to be, about

:53:25.:53:30.

the legacy we leave the next generation and generations after

:53:31.:53:34.

that, about the relationships we want to have with our friends across

:53:35.:53:38.

the world. Britain has always been an looking country, one that doesn't

:53:39.:53:43.

shy away from challenges that face us. My experience as a doctor and

:53:44.:53:49.

all over the world has taught me a lot about those challenges. I have

:53:50.:53:54.

lived and worked in squalid refugee camps, pulled dead bodies out of

:53:55.:53:59.

floodwater, watched children suffer as victims of war. I have witnessed

:54:00.:54:09.

aching, 18 suffering. My commitment is to be a voice for those who have

:54:10.:54:12.

none, to find hope for those who have lost it, to build strength for

:54:13.:54:19.

those who are we, regardless of race or socio economic status, we all

:54:20.:54:25.

bleed, grieve and feel pain. The sound of a parent losing a child is

:54:26.:54:31.

an international language. It is tragically a sound that is

:54:32.:54:34.

increasingly common in unstable world. We live in a time of

:54:35.:54:40.

insecurity and change without parallel in recent history. Europe

:54:41.:54:47.

is in flux, the Middle East is in crisis, the axis of global power is

:54:48.:54:51.

shifting, old certainties no longer seem so certain. It's too easy to

:54:52.:54:56.

write off calls for international social justice as irrelevant when we

:54:57.:55:01.

ourselves live in such an uncertain times. We have so much to do here,

:55:02.:55:10.

why should we think about overseas? That is to misunderstand what social

:55:11.:55:14.

justice is about. It is not just a gold to be ranked in relation to

:55:15.:55:21.

other goals, it is about who we are. It applies to everything we do,

:55:22.:55:26.

whether protecting our NHS, protecting workers' rights were

:55:27.:55:30.

working to seek peace in Syria and Yemen. Everywhere I looked there is

:55:31.:55:38.

work to do. Here at home, I pledge to bring my years of experience in,

:55:39.:55:43.

a deep commitment to the NHS to stand up for it. I could not be

:55:44.:55:49.

proud of my NHS colleagues. At St George's Hospital and elsewhere,

:55:50.:55:53.

they worked day and night with little thanks, anyone who has worked

:55:54.:55:59.

in the NHS or in any of emergency services knows that feeling of

:56:00.:56:03.

leaving behind the comfort of home day after day, night after night,

:56:04.:56:11.

selflessly to work gruelling hours in difficult circumstances, serving

:56:12.:56:15.

the communities they love. I will work to protect them from the

:56:16.:56:20.

taxpayer under. Our NHS staff see work as a vocation, not as a job.

:56:21.:56:26.

This is why they have been so damaged by the recent mishandling of

:56:27.:56:31.

the junior doctors contract and white nurses are distraught when

:56:32.:56:34.

they see their bursaries axed. -- axed. It is reprehensible that

:56:35.:56:41.

students are forced to seek food banks or that nurses are penalised

:56:42.:56:45.

for having children. I have already asked two questions in my short time

:56:46.:56:51.

in this House and I will not stop asking until I get satisfactory

:56:52.:56:56.

answers. In these times, who knows how long I may be sitting here?

:56:57.:57:04.

What I do know and can tell you is that I will make every single

:57:05.:57:13.

minute, every single day, count for the people of Tooting and four Great

:57:14.:57:14.

Britain. Thank you. What an absolutely fantastic,

:57:15.:57:29.

brilliant maiden speech we have just heard from the member for Tooting.

:57:30.:57:35.

I've served in this House 14 times and that is the best maiden speech I

:57:36.:57:40.

have ever heard. It was eloquent, moving, witty, it talked about

:57:41.:57:46.

Tooting, about history, where we are and where we're going. The member

:57:47.:57:52.

for Tooting is a credit to Tooting, a credit to her family and I know

:57:53.:57:58.

her mother is here, as is her brother, her best friend and her

:57:59.:58:02.

husband, who I'm very pleased to hear is from Neath and I hope to

:58:03.:58:09.

share an ice cream later in the summer if all goes well, and

:58:10.:58:17.

supporters in the gallery. I will be mentioning the Mayor of London. It's

:58:18.:58:23.

fantastic to hear about Tooting and it is great to have the Mayor of

:58:24.:58:29.

London back with us today because this debate is about the

:58:30.:58:34.

environment, our concerns as we break free from Europe that we will

:58:35.:58:39.

know longer have a mandatory standards over air quality and I am

:58:40.:58:44.

proud that Siddique can has now made headway after two terms of indolence

:58:45.:58:51.

from the previous mayor in terms of air quality, in terms of moving

:58:52.:58:56.

forward in this direction because after all, we have heard that in

:58:57.:59:04.

London alone there is something like 9500 premature deaths from air

:59:05.:59:10.

pollution, largely from diesel cars, the Royal College of Physicians that

:59:11.:59:14.

the number is 40,000 across Britain, lung disease, heart disease,

:59:15.:59:19.

premature strokes, problems for children, whether or not they are in

:59:20.:59:25.

the classroom or the womb, so I am pleased that Sadiq Khan, I was with

:59:26.:59:30.

him last week when he launched his new air quality standards on the

:59:31.:59:35.

60th anniversary of the clean air act, I look forward to low emissions

:59:36.:59:40.

coming forward with the new technology, and there is new

:59:41.:59:46.

technology from America that can use lasers to counter the amount of

:59:47.:59:53.

emissions for each car and set standards for that. One of my real

:59:54.:59:58.

concerns about this debate is that there will be no mandatory standards

:59:59.:00:08.

enforceable in the courts. I am glad to see planet Earth taking the

:00:09.:00:11.

Government to court to make sure we deliver those standards, because the

:00:12.:00:17.

fact they have to take them to court shows that left to our own devices

:00:18.:00:21.

we are in danger of going back to being the dirty man of Europe, the

:00:22.:00:26.

embarrassing situation we faced before. The world health

:00:27.:00:32.

organisation has standards but they are not enforceable and I hope to

:00:33.:00:40.

hear that in not just air quality standards we will honour our

:00:41.:00:44.

commitments, we have the responsibility to make future laws

:00:45.:00:49.

ourselves but unless the integrated we will not work as a platform to

:00:50.:00:54.

make the world more sustainable. I'm grateful to him, he has touched off

:00:55.:00:59.

an important issue in respect of the fines that are to be levied in

:01:00.:01:05.

respect of breaches of air quality standards. Does he think there is a

:01:06.:01:12.

important job to be done here in terms of joined up government

:01:13.:01:17.

because we hear the British Government will pass the fines down

:01:18.:01:22.

to local government, who are also controlled by central government and

:01:23.:01:28.

housing targets, which means in one hand they have to approve new

:01:29.:01:33.

developments in areas of their towns and cities that are suffering from

:01:34.:01:40.

poor air quality, and at the same time the Government are passing the

:01:41.:01:45.

fines down to them. I think that is a concern. I've put forward an air

:01:46.:01:50.

quality built, the idea being to give more of our two local

:01:51.:01:55.

authorities with the support of government to bring forward more air

:01:56.:02:00.

quality concerns, more testing, encouraged trams and electric driven

:02:01.:02:06.

systems and not just having a series of zones where we have to reach

:02:07.:02:12.

minimum standards but having air quality approved for all people

:02:13.:02:15.

across our nation, and we don't want the Government passing the buck and

:02:16.:02:21.

reverting to becoming the dirty man of Europe. We have got a lot of them

:02:22.:02:28.

are fats from being in Europe. In Swansea West we have beautiful

:02:29.:02:34.

beaches, we don't want to revert to having the old Hightower beaches of

:02:35.:02:44.

the past. We have a situation with environmental innovation being

:02:45.:02:46.

shared across Europe, you're in danger of risking that, we work

:02:47.:02:53.

world leaders for Kyoto, across Europe, we were leaders in Britain

:02:54.:03:00.

for the nomination of CFCs and closing the hole in the ozone there.

:03:01.:03:05.

We don't want to miss those chances but we are likely to do so. Today

:03:06.:03:10.

the climate change committee had a meeting where they talked about the

:03:11.:03:16.

latest Rob Evans with adaptation in terms of climate change, what we

:03:17.:03:22.

have to do in terms of flooding, changes in biodiversity, health and

:03:23.:03:26.

food, challenges we need to face together and I hope to hear

:03:27.:03:31.

reassurances from the minister that we will work together, not just

:03:32.:03:35.

float off on our own and become worse environmentally. We face

:03:36.:03:42.

challenges from Gtech, the trade negotiations between the EU and the

:03:43.:03:47.

US, and now we are leaving we will find we cannot veto or influenced

:03:48.:03:53.

those negotiations, we will just be a bystander and have to live I those

:03:54.:04:00.

rules, which do not protect the environment in relation to

:04:01.:04:03.

investors, so we run the risk of being fined by fracking companies,

:04:04.:04:09.

as we have seen in the Lone Pine in Canada, hundreds of millions of

:04:10.:04:15.

pounds, there was a moratorium on fracking in crop that, I did not

:04:16.:04:19.

want to see that happen in Wales or Scotland or elsewhere when these

:04:20.:04:22.

companies are given the open door. I am rapporteur for Tito and

:04:23.:04:37.

fracking. I hope the advice will be taken by the government. People have

:04:38.:04:43.

mentioned the issues of the environmental audit committee. I am

:04:44.:04:48.

a member of that. We have said that, working together with Europe has to

:04:49.:04:55.

be good for standards. What we don't want to see is undercutting other

:04:56.:04:59.

countries for competitive reasons on the environment which will bring

:05:00.:05:05.

everybody down. In terms of climate change, in Paris, it was agreed we

:05:06.:05:10.

would have a target for our water temperature is not to go up more

:05:11.:05:20.

than 2%. We have already moved 1 degrees up and on the basis of CO2

:05:21.:05:25.

in the pipeline, it is calculated that we are at 1.5% up, which is the

:05:26.:05:33.

Paris aspiration. It means we need to move toward zero carbon

:05:34.:05:39.

technology and zero carbon and shamefully, the government, even

:05:40.:05:43.

before leaving Europe, has abandoned its aspirations and plans for carbon

:05:44.:05:49.

capture. I am really concerned as an environmentalist that we will not

:05:50.:05:54.

just become the dirty man of Europe, but we will start playing dirty to

:05:55.:05:59.

reduce standards to attract jobs as we face tariffs as one of the

:06:00.:06:02.

inevitable consequences of the Brexit boat. I will be putting down

:06:03.:06:13.

a Bill tomorrow. It will give the opportunity for the government to

:06:14.:06:17.

sign up to say we will keep the current standards so we won't sink

:06:18.:06:21.

backwards as the EU is moving forward. I hope that would be

:06:22.:06:27.

agreed. It is with great regret that we voted for Brexit. I hope we will

:06:28.:06:33.

have a second referendum on the exit package so people precisely know

:06:34.:06:36.

what they are voting for and if it doesn't deliver the reasonable

:06:37.:06:42.

expectations, they'll have the option to default back to recover

:06:43.:06:46.

membership of the EU again. We will see how it goes. People are shaking

:06:47.:06:50.

their heads but I don't think we should continue to work into what

:06:51.:06:55.

may be an environmental disaster. Finally, I would like to once more

:06:56.:06:58.

say what a fantastic speech from The Member For tooting. From this side,

:06:59.:07:07.

can I say what a pleasure it was to hear from the new member, she given

:07:08.:07:11.

excellent speech in terms of content and delivery. My son is a junior

:07:12.:07:18.

hospital doctor and I know how hard doctors work and for me I would like

:07:19.:07:22.

to say that we need more scientists and doctors in the House of Commons

:07:23.:07:26.

and, for that reason, she is welcome. Congratulations. Madam

:07:27.:07:31.

Deputy Speaker, the implication of the opposition Day motion here is

:07:32.:07:35.

that, somehow, we are leaving the EU and as a result of that, as we have

:07:36.:07:41.

heard, we will become the dirty man of Europe, but somehow, without the

:07:42.:07:46.

cloud hand of European legislation, we will go back to our dirty ways. I

:07:47.:07:54.

am going to talk about climate change policy and in particular I

:07:55.:07:58.

will talk about how far ahead in climate change policy we are to the

:07:59.:08:01.

rest of the EU, which is causing an increasing difficulty the world in

:08:02.:08:08.

terms of how slow Europe is being. Where people are right is that

:08:09.:08:12.

environmental protection and policy is something that is cross-border.

:08:13.:08:20.

We are 1.3% of global emissions. Since 1990, the UK has decreased

:08:21.:08:27.

carbon emissions by 28%. The EU has decreased carbon emissions by 21%.

:08:28.:08:31.

That is including our 28, so the rest of them have done a bit worse.

:08:32.:08:37.

That isn't a disaster. What is extraordinary is the variability

:08:38.:08:40.

within different countries in Europe in terms of performance on carbon

:08:41.:08:45.

emissions since 1990. Austria has increased emissions by 14%. Ireland

:08:46.:08:52.

by 7%. Poland by 14%, Germany has decreased, but nothing like as much

:08:53.:08:57.

as asked. It is quite bizarre, because people talk about countries

:08:58.:09:01.

like China as being the issue in terms of emissions. The reality is

:09:02.:09:04.

that the Chinese are taking the whole issue a great deal more

:09:05.:09:08.

seriously than a number of OECD countries. China has 40 to 50

:09:09.:09:12.

nuclear power stations under construction. It increased its

:09:13.:09:17.

proportion of energy from nuclear by 30% last year, but 20% for

:09:18.:09:22.

renewables. A huge amount of effort. The truth is, where the issue

:09:23.:09:28.

exists... Thank you for giving way. I take his point that China are

:09:29.:09:34.

making commendable progress in respect of nuclear construction, but

:09:35.:09:38.

inset is not the case that, along with India, they are constructing

:09:39.:09:41.

property several thousand coal-fired power stations and the argument, as

:09:42.:09:46.

well put by the Prime Minister of India stated, why should we come to

:09:47.:09:51.

the banquet, have only a dessert and be presented with the Bill? I have a

:09:52.:09:56.

lot of sympathy for that argument and that is why we have had to cut

:09:57.:10:00.

more slack for developing countries. I will come on to talk about coal.

:10:01.:10:05.

The Secretary of State in November said we were going to phase out coal

:10:06.:10:12.

by 2020 -- 2025. The following week, Germany commissioned a lignite

:10:13.:10:19.

burning coal power station. That sort of behaviour plays to the point

:10:20.:10:24.

just made by the member from the Scottish National Party that it is

:10:25.:10:28.

very hard to lecture the Indians and the Chinese on hold when there are

:10:29.:10:34.

countries in Europe, in this year, commissioning brand new coal power

:10:35.:10:39.

stations. I want to come on and talk about Paris. We have talked about

:10:40.:10:44.

how important Paris is. The member who spoke before me the point that

:10:45.:10:49.

we might well be close to one and half percent annually. It is a

:10:50.:10:53.

statistical model and it is hard to tell that but the facts are that the

:10:54.:11:04.

IM DC, the EU made a commitment like something like half as owner is in

:11:05.:11:08.

terms of decarbonisation as the climate change Act is requiring us

:11:09.:11:13.

to do within the UK. We will reduce emissions by 57% in 2030. The

:11:14.:11:22.

European offering, the EU offering, was a 40% reduction in which

:11:23.:11:27.

includes the 57% from the UK. We are seeing the result of this. Last

:11:28.:11:33.

year, carbon emissions across the EU as a whole increased by 9.7%. That

:11:34.:11:40.

is only one year. This isn't a thing you can look at one year at a time.

:11:41.:11:45.

18 of the 28 countries within the EU either had no decrease in emissions

:11:46.:11:55.

for an increase. In that same time the UK reduced by about 3%. One of

:11:56.:12:03.

the courses, I will talk more widely about why I think the EU has lost

:12:04.:12:07.

its way on climate policy, but there is a fixation around: in the EU.

:12:08.:12:15.

Germany is often regarded as being a leader in renewables and they are.

:12:16.:12:18.

They have more renewables than we do, but they also have much higher

:12:19.:12:20.

carbon emissions than we have and carbon emissions than we have and

:12:21.:12:24.

the reason is because of the code they use. They use four times as

:12:25.:12:30.

much coal as the UK. They are four times more populous. Other countries

:12:31.:12:35.

are at the same. Does this matter? Perhaps not in one sense, someone

:12:36.:12:40.

has got to need and it is us, but if you look online you will see that

:12:41.:12:49.

the UK for domestic consumers are something like 50% higher than the

:12:50.:12:52.

EU average. Our gas prices are not. Our industrial prices are about 80%

:12:53.:12:55.

higher. That matters because I come from a constituency in the north of

:12:56.:12:59.

England where we manufacture things and it is very hard to talk about

:13:00.:13:03.

rebalancing our economy, very hard to talk about the northern

:13:04.:13:08.

Powerhouse on the back of differentially high energy prices. I

:13:09.:13:12.

just want to make a viewpoint about why it is that I think the EU have

:13:13.:13:19.

taken the position they have. As to why it is that the policy objectives

:13:20.:13:22.

of reducing carbon have not been realised. The first error which was

:13:23.:13:28.

made, this is the clue, there was confusion as to the target. A lot of

:13:29.:13:33.

the early EU directives about renewables, they were not about

:13:34.:13:37.

decarbonisation, which is a secondary target. The consequence is

:13:38.:13:41.

that cc gas, which we have talked about, was not emphasised. Gas was

:13:42.:13:47.

not emphasised as a transition and nuclear was not emphasised. The

:13:48.:13:52.

biggest omission, 30% of EU electricity, comes from nuclear and

:13:53.:13:58.

the fact that isn't even regarded as part of the solution is quite

:13:59.:14:03.

bizarre. Two or three speeches have talked about Sisi S. It is true that

:14:04.:14:11.

the UK is not pushing ahead here. To say that this is an european issue

:14:12.:14:16.

when a number of countries, Germany for example have banned, not just

:14:17.:14:23.

not developing at, really the disbelief. Plus the other error I

:14:24.:14:32.

think you have made is a general parity between different types of

:14:33.:14:36.

fossil fuels. The fact is that coal and gas are very different indeed in

:14:37.:14:43.

terms of the materiality. One of the reasons that the UK does a lot

:14:44.:14:47.

better than the EU is the amount of gas use and the way we have

:14:48.:14:51.

displaced coal with gas. A statistics I like to call is this,

:14:52.:14:56.

if the woodwork to replace all the code we currently with gas, that

:14:57.:15:04.

would be equivalent of five times, a factor of 500%, more renewables and

:15:05.:15:08.

pretend that isn't part of the solution is just plain wrong. One of

:15:09.:15:12.

the reasons people regarded as not being part of the solution is that

:15:13.:15:16.

there has been an error between a pathway that at some point we need

:15:17.:15:23.

to get to an emissions level Leo that afforded by gas emissions

:15:24.:15:30.

accumulative. The member who spoke before me from Swansea, I beg your

:15:31.:15:39.

pardon, talked about the fact that we might be close to one and half

:15:40.:15:43.

percent in terms of particulates and that is true. It is accumulative

:15:44.:15:49.

effect. Carbon doesn't go out of the atmosphere up until after a long

:15:50.:15:53.

period of time. It is not just about pathway. For that reason, gas should

:15:54.:15:58.

have been more of a factor in this than it has been. The fourth thing

:15:59.:16:06.

is... On the related matter, isn't he is concerned as I am about

:16:07.:16:13.

leakages of methane from fracking, which are 5%, given that meeting is

:16:14.:16:17.

83 times worse than CO2 in global warming? First of all, I recognise

:16:18.:16:26.

the issue he raises, that methane released from fracking at that level

:16:27.:16:30.

would represent a threat. I don't think that is the case in the United

:16:31.:16:35.

States of America, but I am prepared to be corrected. I don't think

:16:36.:16:38.

anything like that amount of methane is being emitted by fracking in the

:16:39.:16:47.

United States. I really don't. I can provide him with the satellite

:16:48.:16:51.

evidence of this. It is between three and did percent and the best

:16:52.:16:55.

judgment is 5%, which makes it two and a half times worse than coal in

:16:56.:17:01.

terms of global warming. If that was true, it would apply to fractal gas

:17:02.:17:07.

only. Most of our gas comes from Norway and Russia. That said, there

:17:08.:17:11.

have been papers written about the motive methane that emotive Wales

:17:12.:17:16.

and I don't think the evidence is quite as the honourable gentleman

:17:17.:17:19.

said but we should leave it at that for now. We will have a coffee

:17:20.:17:26.

afterwards. The other thing that wasn't done was that the EU has no

:17:27.:17:30.

price of carbon. The emission trading system that was put into

:17:31.:17:37.

pace was an attempt to put into pace a price for carbon because of the

:17:38.:17:40.

recession, carbon permits became very cheap indeed and they begin

:17:41.:17:44.

publishing at all. We then established a for price. The EU

:17:45.:17:49.

Parliament, the parliament in Brussels, debated this, it was

:17:50.:17:54.

clocked by MPs from Germany in particular and there is no price for

:17:55.:17:57.

carbon within the EU which would have fixed some of this. The result

:17:58.:18:03.

of all of this is a policy that overly emphasises renewables as a

:18:04.:18:07.

solution without taking into account some of the other things we could be

:18:08.:18:13.

doing like nuclear, like CCS, like displacement of coal with gas. We

:18:14.:18:20.

see the result in Germany. A country that has very high renewables, but

:18:21.:18:26.

also has very high carbon emissions. Germany has something like 15% now

:18:27.:18:31.

of its total energy coming from renewables, 30% of its electricity

:18:32.:18:34.

coming from renewables, but because of the amount of coal producers,

:18:35.:18:40.

carbon emissions are a third higher GDP than the UK and a third higher

:18:41.:18:46.

per capita than the UK. There is an issue with is leaving the EU. It is

:18:47.:18:51.

not an issue of us learning from the EU about how to reduce carbon

:18:52.:18:54.

emissions, it is an issue of them not being held to account for the

:18:55.:18:59.

level of emissions that many of those countries are

:19:00.:19:04.

If Brexit has a downside in terms of environmental policy, it is that the

:19:05.:19:12.

leadership did you say has been able to, perhaps unsuccessfully,

:19:13.:19:18.

demonstrate to the EU about climate targets will not be as evident in

:19:19.:19:26.

the future. Thank you, Madam deputies weaker, it is a pleasure to

:19:27.:19:32.

see you in the chair. It was frustrating to me that the

:19:33.:19:37.

environment received so that'll add tension during the referendum

:19:38.:19:41.

campaign, despite the best efforts of my other members of the

:19:42.:19:44.

cross-party environmentalists for Europe. It seems a lifetime ago I

:19:45.:19:55.

was stood on the windswept beach in Hove as Stanley Johnson, the member

:19:56.:20:02.

of the honourable father 's of Orpington, exhorted people to remain

:20:03.:20:08.

for nature. Brighton and Hove voted to remain, and I'm sure it was down

:20:09.:20:15.

to our efforts that day. The public voted narrowly for Brexit, although

:20:16.:20:20.

I did not believe they voted to remove the environmental protections

:20:21.:20:22.

that have served us well over the years. There is much that is good

:20:23.:20:27.

that has flowed from our EU membership. Britain was once the

:20:28.:20:32.

dirty man of Europe, we used to worry about acid rain but our

:20:33.:20:41.

software dioxide emissions fell between 1990 and 2010, thanks to EU

:20:42.:20:49.

direct those, the band on the petrol and the requirement for catalytic

:20:50.:20:53.

converters in cars. I'm grateful to my honourable friend, as I represent

:20:54.:20:59.

a constituency that has an air quality management area, she will

:21:00.:21:04.

know there is a public health issue in respect of obtaining clean air.

:21:05.:21:11.

Does she think it is incumbent on the Government to make sure we

:21:12.:21:15.

tackle the air quality issue so we never those health inequalities that

:21:16.:21:20.

are endemic inconsistencies like mine? I agree, 60 years on from the

:21:21.:21:29.

Clean Air Act it is clear that many open areas are suffering greatly

:21:30.:21:34.

from Eric elution. It is an issue of social justice as it tends to be her

:21:35.:21:40.

people in poorer communities that are most affect it, and whether we

:21:41.:21:46.

are in the EU work out, we need further action. It is hard to

:21:47.:21:52.

believe we used to allow untreated sewage to flow into our seas before

:21:53.:21:57.

the EU force the UK have meant to make our water is fit for swimming

:21:58.:22:01.

in and to test for back carrier like E. Coli. In 1990 just 27% of an

:22:02.:22:08.

bathing waters met minimum standards, by 2014 99% complied. The

:22:09.:22:19.

US required us to recycle 50% of household waste by 2020, although it

:22:20.:22:23.

looks as if the UK is moving slightly upwards in its progress

:22:24.:22:28.

towards recycling targets and that needs to be halted. We also have

:22:29.:22:34.

nature direct the risk protecting our most threatened habitats, with

:22:35.:22:40.

beauty spots like Ben never stand the Brecon Beacons designated for

:22:41.:22:48.

protection. There is a lot of uncertainty and I am clean to hear

:22:49.:22:54.

indications from the minister as to what are negotiated stance will be,

:22:55.:22:58.

and reassurance about the importance of such protections. I understand if

:22:59.:23:04.

the UK were to negotiate membership of the EEA, most legislation would

:23:05.:23:10.

continue to apply, including legislation covering chemicals and

:23:11.:23:17.

waste management but not bathing waters or bird protection. Outside

:23:18.:23:23.

the EEA, most legislation would cease to comply, except where

:23:24.:23:32.

companies were importing to the EU. Many EU directives have been

:23:33.:23:35.

transposed into UK law under arts other than that European communities

:23:36.:23:41.

act on this legislation would continue to apply until changed by

:23:42.:23:47.

Parliament. The EU regulations would present aid from problem for the

:23:48.:23:52.

garden -- the Government, as these could cease to apply. We need a

:23:53.:23:57.

cover or that of clear guidance to be given to the Hub, who felt

:23:58.:24:03.

through the referendum campaign that they did not have the information

:24:04.:24:08.

needed to make the decision in front of them. We need clear guidance as

:24:09.:24:12.

to what attractions could be under threat in each scenario before they

:24:13.:24:18.

decide which of these scenarios the order to support, and we need to

:24:19.:24:22.

know what the Government intends in each case. There are doubts about

:24:23.:24:29.

Defra's capacity to do this. The department was underprepared for a

:24:30.:24:34.

Brexit result, the Secretary of State said there was no fan be. The

:24:35.:24:42.

Chancellor last night and then set a cut of 15% for this Parliament,

:24:43.:24:46.

Defra and its agencies have launched a quarter of its staff, and I hope

:24:47.:24:51.

the minister can now tell us how the department will untangle EU

:24:52.:24:56.

directives went it does not have sufficient staff or even its day

:24:57.:25:01.

work. I urge the Government to bring in experts from outside Parliament

:25:02.:25:06.

who are already gathering I'd is an meeting and trying to collate a

:25:07.:25:11.

strategy for how we should now proceed, for example Professor Tim

:25:12.:25:18.

Lang. We also need to know which civil servants from Defra will take

:25:19.:25:23.

part in the member for West Dorset's EU unit and what their remit will

:25:24.:25:28.

be. Aim concerned that of some in the Government have their way we

:25:29.:25:33.

will have a bonfire of protections. We note some of the most prominent

:25:34.:25:38.

leave campaigners are climate change deniers and much EU rhetoric has

:25:39.:25:43.

cast environmental protections as a bureaucratic urban rather than a

:25:44.:25:50.

buffet. The Chancellor tried to claim these protections have faced

:25:51.:25:55.

ridiculous costs on British witness of the big government's own review

:25:56.:26:01.

proved him wrong, and the Farming Minister vowed that the nature

:26:02.:26:06.

directors would go after Brexit, describing them as spirit crushing

:26:07.:26:10.

green directives, although he did later say that was misrepresented.

:26:11.:26:17.

He said the Marine strategy framework directive, which requires

:26:18.:26:19.

member states to achieve good environmental status in waters and

:26:20.:26:26.

to promote a more sustainable approach, would go as well, so we

:26:27.:26:31.

need reassurances that those voices will not prevail. The European

:26:32.:26:39.

Commission's fitness check and there regulatory burden is due to report

:26:40.:26:43.

soon. In the largest response ever to win EU consultation, 500,000

:26:44.:26:49.

people called for nature of those to be kept and better enforced. More

:26:50.:26:54.

than 100,000 of these responses came from British citizens. Organisations

:26:55.:26:59.

like the RSPB have been instrumental in protect the directives. To take

:27:00.:27:08.

another example where the EU is currently discussing issues that

:27:09.:27:11.

affect the UK, it is not a question of there being legally binding

:27:12.:27:17.

obligations that they are things we should still be a part of, the

:27:18.:27:22.

circular economy package was agreed last year. There have been reports

:27:23.:27:27.

that during those negotiations are UK tried to water down the package,

:27:28.:27:33.

arguing against mandatory targets and priding ourselves on inserting

:27:34.:27:37.

the word voluntary. Scotland has brought forward fans to compliment

:27:38.:27:43.

the package and Wales has its own blueprint for a more sickly economy,

:27:44.:27:47.

so what will England do? If the package is properly implemented the

:27:48.:27:53.

potential for new jobs is huge. I would like the minister to reassure

:27:54.:27:59.

us we will not allow Brexit to do real our progress. To give a third

:28:00.:28:04.

example, the new nicotine joints and, the European food safety is

:28:05.:28:12.

reviewing restrictions on the use of these and their harm to his and

:28:13.:28:20.

other indicators. This will consider whether they should be extended to

:28:21.:28:25.

cover all crops. Will the UK now base its view on future regulation

:28:26.:28:30.

on the assessment or, as these restrictions were only introduced

:28:31.:28:33.

thanks to the EU, does the Government now see this as an

:28:34.:28:38.

opportunity in the way the member for North Shropshire does for

:28:39.:28:45.

overturning the current ban? I also want to talk about the impact on

:28:46.:28:51.

farmers and unmanaged environment. The Common Agricultural Policy is

:28:52.:28:54.

far from perfect but it is a lifeline for farmers, about 35% of

:28:55.:29:01.

their income coming from the EU. Britain's lack of food

:29:02.:29:04.

self-sufficiency makes us vulnerable to Brexit. Most experts agree prices

:29:05.:29:12.

are likely to rise on imported food, and we will have difficulties of

:29:13.:29:17.

setting this with British grown food, given how reliant the sector

:29:18.:29:22.

is on free movement of Labour. I think I am right in saying 38% of

:29:23.:29:27.

workers in the food and farming sector come from outside the UK and

:29:28.:29:33.

their situation is in doubt in a post Brexit scenario. The Leave

:29:34.:29:38.

campaign promised a post Brexit UK have with the more generous to

:29:39.:29:43.

farmers but we know the UK lobbied for cuts to see a piece support. We

:29:44.:29:49.

also know that they had the chance of development but opted for 5%

:29:50.:29:55.

modulation, so there are worrying signs. There were too many examples

:29:56.:30:02.

of the Government not meeting EU requirements. It had to be taken to

:30:03.:30:06.

court for breaching EU clean-air laws. It was taken to court by WWF

:30:07.:30:14.

for its failure to protect our rivers, lakes and coastal areas from

:30:15.:30:18.

agricultural pollution. The water framework directive required good

:30:19.:30:24.

ecological status I20 fifth in in all water bodies but only 19%

:30:25.:30:30.

currently comply. Beaches are being has admitted that this Government so

:30:31.:30:34.

they did not have to warn swimmers about poor water quality. My final

:30:35.:30:41.

point is about TTIP. Some people worried that by staying in the EU we

:30:42.:30:46.

would end up as a signatory and our hard-won food safety and animal

:30:47.:30:50.

welfare standards could be compromised, for example the EU does

:30:51.:30:55.

not allow for Mount punt made in the US does. Just when it looks like the

:30:56.:31:01.

EU will resist TTIP, and the signals from France and Germany are that

:31:02.:31:06.

they will do so, will Brexit means the Duke team government ends up

:31:07.:31:11.

negotiating Abe bilateral trade deal with the US and will are weaker

:31:12.:31:17.

position mean we see the ground on the standards? Bilateral

:31:18.:31:22.

negotiations with the US could leave us with even less control. Faced

:31:23.:31:27.

with losing EU protections, ministers need to wish a rest that

:31:28.:31:31.

are except one not mean environmental degradation and

:31:32.:31:39.

pollution spiralling out of control. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

:31:40.:31:44.

It's a pleasure to take part in this debate. I thought the new member for

:31:45.:31:50.

Tooting, apart from having a fantastically named constituency,

:31:51.:31:55.

did herself heard. She stood tall for Tooting today. I wondered if she

:31:56.:32:00.

would make a bid for the Labour leadership, there were so many MPs

:32:01.:32:06.

on benches. Could I also thank my colleagues on the other half of Jean

:32:07.:32:15.

Callum. He failed to mention that he is taller, has more hair, but anyone

:32:16.:32:21.

can see his shoes knows there are still clearly some flaws. So I think

:32:22.:32:30.

this has been an excellent debate. I think it's a shame we didn't have

:32:31.:32:34.

more of this type of debate prior to the referendum. We did everything in

:32:35.:32:40.

our power to promote the case for the UK remaining in the EU and a key

:32:41.:32:47.

part of that case was about the protections that EU legislation has

:32:48.:32:52.

brought in the workplace, and human rights and on the environment.

:32:53.:32:57.

Unfortunately these issues were often brushed aside in the political

:32:58.:33:06.

contest we experienced. As we heard earlier, the environment scarcely

:33:07.:33:08.

featured in the debate about Britain's membership of the EU at

:33:09.:33:13.

all, yet the environmental protections we have enjoyed here for

:33:14.:33:19.

decades, they come in areas like air and water quality, emissions, waste,

:33:20.:33:27.

chemical regulations and habitat protection, or all underpinned by EU

:33:28.:33:32.

legislation. Our membership of the EU has had a positive affect on the

:33:33.:33:38.

quality of beaches, walkers and rivers and the air we breathe. It

:33:39.:33:42.

has underpinned protection for many of our rarest birds, plants and

:33:43.:33:50.

animals and their habitats. Like so many other questions in the detail

:33:51.:33:55.

Brexit, the question of how we continue to protect these assets

:33:56.:33:56.

needs an answer. As the honourable member for

:33:57.:34:13.

Oxbridge told the country just days after encouraging us to vote to

:34:14.:34:19.

leave, there will still be intense and intensifying European

:34:20.:34:22.

co-operation and partnership in a huge number of fields, the arts, the

:34:23.:34:28.

sciences, universities and improving the environment. It is not clear how

:34:29.:34:34.

this picture of intensifying cooperation squares with the Home

:34:35.:34:39.

Secretary's statement yesterday that Brexit means Brexit. On matters that

:34:40.:34:44.

stretch across a whole range of fields vital to our prosperity and

:34:45.:34:49.

well-being, there has been little more than aviation and confusion

:34:50.:34:54.

from the government thus far. This is why ministers must do everything

:34:55.:34:59.

in their power to offer clarity about how they will take forward the

:35:00.:35:03.

protection of the environment in this new political situation. There

:35:04.:35:09.

is so much about the EU that we do not want to abandon. I have noticed

:35:10.:35:14.

this in relation to my other brief, in meetings on the digital single

:35:15.:35:18.

market, there is a strong view that it makes sense to continue to adhere

:35:19.:35:24.

to EU directives and projects, even though we have voluntarily given up

:35:25.:35:29.

the capacity to ship them. It is worth considering for a moment how

:35:30.:35:33.

the approach to the environment in this country has been shipped so far

:35:34.:35:39.

since we joined the EU. As many honourable members have mentioned,

:35:40.:35:43.

in the 1980s, Britain was known as the dirty man of Europe. That is

:35:44.:35:47.

because of widespread pollution of air, land and water. There is a risk

:35:48.:35:53.

that Britain will end up rekindling that reputation. Well, the UK has

:35:54.:35:59.

sometimes willingly followed a driver for incremental standards and

:36:00.:36:03.

occasionally it the way. It has taken years to get the country to

:36:04.:36:07.

meet the standards considered the norm in Europe. I would also like to

:36:08.:36:12.

point out that when considering matters around environmental

:36:13.:36:14.

protection it is worth remembering that in addition to the inherent

:36:15.:36:19.

worth of our landscape and ecosystems, there are key economic

:36:20.:36:26.

benefits to protecting diversity. In Scotland, our natural environment

:36:27.:36:29.

contributes an estimated 21 and half billion pounds to the Scottish

:36:30.:36:34.

economy. Scotland also provides a major part of the UK contribution to

:36:35.:36:42.

the EU. It established protective sites with over 15% of land

:36:43.:36:46.

designated for a wealth of habitats and species. During the campaign, we

:36:47.:36:52.

didn't hear anything from the Brexit campaign about what this vote would

:36:53.:36:57.

mean for the habitats directive, for the circular economy with its need

:36:58.:37:01.

for long-term planning and investment were issues around water

:37:02.:37:05.

quality, where the UK still has a lot of catching up to do. What we

:37:06.:37:10.

did here was a deep and often ideological driven opposition to red

:37:11.:37:16.

tape. This red tape includes measures that protect rare species

:37:17.:37:21.

and unique habitats and which prevents companies damaging the

:37:22.:37:26.

environment were using dangerous chemicals in their products. It is

:37:27.:37:31.

now time to put the rhetorical bluster about red tape behind us and

:37:32.:37:38.

to move on to focusing on what the government will do as it undertakes

:37:39.:37:42.

these negotiations. If its priorities are modelled for key

:37:43.:37:47.

protections are sacrificed for short-term gain, we could be living

:37:48.:37:52.

with the impact for generations. When ever all of the different

:37:53.:37:56.

moving parts of this constitutional crisis ends, we must ensure that the

:37:57.:38:03.

UK continues on the right path. As a range of environmental groups have

:38:04.:38:10.

asserted before and after Brexit, cooperation and collaboration within

:38:11.:38:14.

Europe and with the EU works. This is because we do not solve such

:38:15.:38:22.

problems in isolation. My own admission, Scotland, understands

:38:23.:38:27.

this. What does This House and does this government? No. Thank you Madam

:38:28.:38:35.

Deputy Speaker. Consideration of the question and in respect, my concerns

:38:36.:38:41.

are as follows. Investment in oil and gas, renewables, any project or

:38:42.:38:47.

initiative relies upon, amongst other things, stable legislation.

:38:48.:38:52.

Investors can rely on conditions under which they would be prepared

:38:53.:38:57.

to invest to last for preferably the duration of the project or

:38:58.:39:00.

initiative. This has not been the case with this and previous

:39:01.:39:06.

governments whether there have been changes in the warrant and gas

:39:07.:39:12.

sector, allied with withdrawal from green initiatives, such as the zero

:39:13.:39:16.

Carbon home policy, abolishing the green the home improvement fund,

:39:17.:39:21.

subsidy cuts, onshore wind farm subsidy removal, opening the doors

:39:22.:39:26.

to fracking, biomass fuel caps, privatisation of the green

:39:27.:39:30.

investment bank, abandoning green tax targets and renewable energy

:39:31.:39:36.

investment, cutting green car incentives and, particularly

:39:37.:39:39.

significant for myself since I worked on a project, cancel the

:39:40.:39:43.

competition for carbon capture and storage. I will happily give way.

:39:44.:39:48.

Does he not agree he has illustrated the Surrey plays the government has

:39:49.:39:51.

taken this country which market is no longer Britannia rules the waves

:39:52.:39:59.

but Britannia waives the rules? An honourable point well made by my

:40:00.:40:04.

friend. That short list of changes in legislation can do nothing but

:40:05.:40:09.

discourage investors from investing in new energy production and

:40:10.:40:16.

investment. The carbon capture and storage ?1 billion competition

:40:17.:40:18.

initiative, cancelled late in the Autumn Statement of 2015, will make

:40:19.:40:22.

it almost impossible for the UK to meet climate change targets. I will

:40:23.:40:28.

gladly give way. I thank him for giving way. This highlights one

:40:29.:40:31.

reason there is concern on this side of the House. We have a degree of

:40:32.:40:38.

faith in the ministerial team opposite that they get the

:40:39.:40:41.

challenges involved here. My colleague across the border, the

:40:42.:40:48.

Secretary of State understand the challenges, but in this pace, all

:40:49.:40:52.

too often, it is the Treasury that decides. Will he join with me in

:40:53.:40:56.

pushing one member opposite for the Chancellor position. I thank my

:40:57.:41:03.

friend for commend the comments and agree with him wholeheartedly. The

:41:04.:41:09.

confirmation by Matthew Bell, the chief Executive of the committee of

:41:10.:41:13.

climate change she said, and accord, if you do not have CCS then you

:41:14.:41:19.

really need to decarbonise the transport sector and completely

:41:20.:41:21.

decarbonise your heating sector in to deliver the 2050 ambitions. Since

:41:22.:41:28.

both of these sectors seriously lagged behind decarbonisation in the

:41:29.:41:34.

energy production, this seems extremely unlikely to say the least.

:41:35.:41:39.

The underlying message of these changes is that the cost of

:41:40.:41:42.

subsidising renewable energy has been previously underestimated by

:41:43.:41:47.

the government, which has led to the withdrawal of the green fields by

:41:48.:41:51.

the Treasury for consumers. House-builders and energy investors

:41:52.:41:54.

alike. The government has instead put all its eggs in the jewel basket

:41:55.:41:59.

of fracking and nuclear energy. Neither of which looks like to be

:42:00.:42:03.

progressing very smoothly at the moment, making achievement in the

:42:04.:42:08.

matter to regard it highly unlikely. The problems of Hinkley C, touched

:42:09.:42:12.

on by my honourable friend from Aberdeen South, as anyone can see,

:42:13.:42:20.

this history of successive short term used UK Government continues to

:42:21.:42:25.

move the legislative goalpost and only undermined investor confidence.

:42:26.:42:30.

Brexit will only serve to exacerbate the problem further. A point well

:42:31.:42:34.

made by the honourable member for Brent North who is no longer in his

:42:35.:42:39.

pace. But Deputy Speaker, in consideration of the question, in

:42:40.:42:45.

respect of energy security, I would add that last year I was a member of

:42:46.:42:50.

the market debate committee and while this was a very early

:42:51.:42:55.

engagement and a very early stage discussion, the potential for cross

:42:56.:42:58.

European energy sharing via interconnector 's and the like was

:42:59.:43:04.

striking amongst EU members. I wonder if that committee will even

:43:05.:43:09.

sit again this year given Brexit. It should be obvious to all that and

:43:10.:43:13.

efficient interconnector network shared energy design across Europe

:43:14.:43:17.

would benefit all the when the wind is blowing in Scotland, as

:43:18.:43:21.

invariably it does, and the energy generated can be used elsewhere.

:43:22.:43:25.

When it is not, the sun is shining in Spain. We can share that mutual

:43:26.:43:30.

benefit. I sincerely hope that this committee does meet again, but we

:43:31.:43:36.

have just made it much harder for ourselves as we try to coordinate

:43:37.:43:38.

Europe-wide efficient energy supply from without the EU. I should say at

:43:39.:43:43.

this point, Scotland has no intention of suffering the fallout

:43:44.:43:47.

from Brexit. The ramifications of which are still to be understood. As

:43:48.:43:51.

my honourable friend is from both Aberdeen South and Berwickshire

:43:52.:43:57.

pointed out, we are staying in Europe. In further consideration of

:43:58.:44:03.

the question as respect the natural environment, I like most sensible

:44:04.:44:05.

politicians, turn to independent experts in the field for questions

:44:06.:44:11.

on issues of context matters such as the natural environment. The point

:44:12.:44:18.

on the circular economy have been well made, so I will skip to the

:44:19.:44:23.

point on the comments by the institution of environmental

:44:24.:44:27.

sciences is that it is currently conducting a survey of its members

:44:28.:44:32.

asking what impact do you think the decision to leave the EU will have

:44:33.:44:38.

an environmental protection. Overwhelmingly, 80% of highly

:44:39.:44:42.

educated, experienced environmental professionals consider and the

:44:43.:44:47.

court, without binding EU law, it is likely environmental regulations

:44:48.:44:49.

will be weakened or scrapped by the UK. A pre-EU referendum survey of

:44:50.:44:57.

members of the institution of environmental scientists showed that

:44:58.:45:01.

68% of members were in support of the EU. The UK has been

:45:02.:45:06.

disproportionately successful in securing funding for research

:45:07.:45:11.

projects in the environmental sciences and other sectors due to

:45:12.:45:17.

the strength of our UK science base. Under the seventh framework

:45:18.:45:24.

programme, which ran from 2007 to 2013, 1000 704 million euros were

:45:25.:45:29.

spent on projects for under the environment theme. Of the 4055

:45:30.:45:36.

projects funded under the FP seven theme, according to the community

:45:37.:45:40.

research and development services, 603 were based in the UK, second

:45:41.:45:47.

only to Germany with 645. I will gladly give way. He is making an

:45:48.:45:53.

important point about the important contribution that EU funding makes

:45:54.:45:59.

to research and, just in recent months, I visited the Plymouth

:46:00.:46:02.

Marine laboratory and as I was there they just cut and as through the to

:46:03.:46:07.

pick up a significant 6-figure sum from Europe to fund some of the

:46:08.:46:10.

research. They are very worried about what Brexit will mean. There

:46:11.:46:18.

is amazing thing the Glazers and drones and all sorts of high-tech

:46:19.:46:21.

research and that is dependent on EU funding, to a large extent. I agree

:46:22.:46:28.

with the honourable member and Asher concerns in respect of future

:46:29.:46:31.

funding and Britain leads the EU. Given Brexit, this does not bode

:46:32.:46:36.

well for the future of positive environmental projects in the UK. To

:46:37.:46:41.

finish, I would ask the following questions of the Minister and make

:46:42.:46:45.

one final point. Number one, Scotland has an incredible

:46:46.:46:48.

opportunity to be a world leader in a range of renewable technologies

:46:49.:46:52.

which are a vital part of our energy supply in the UK. We help the

:46:53.:46:57.

environment and create jobs in communities across Scotland. What

:46:58.:47:00.

steps will the Minister and the government take to ensure Scotland

:47:01.:47:06.

remains at the forefront of both renewable and offshore industries?

:47:07.:47:10.

Number two, the recent vote to leave the European Union has plunged our

:47:11.:47:15.

energy sector into further uncertainty. The Scottish National

:47:16.:47:17.

Party call upon the UK Government to hold the damage and programme of

:47:18.:47:21.

austerity and inject the economy with investment necessary to

:47:22.:47:24.

stimulate growth and create a healthy environment for investors

:47:25.:47:28.

and consumers alike. What will the government do to protect businesses

:47:29.:47:33.

and consumers from this fallout? Number three, the Scottish National

:47:34.:47:37.

Party belief that enhancing energy efficiency in homes throughout the

:47:38.:47:42.

UK can provide valuable benefits to individual consumers. From improving

:47:43.:47:47.

the quality of life to reducing fuel poverty, a key issue that has not

:47:48.:47:51.

been touched on enough in this debate. The energy efficiency of

:47:52.:47:55.

homes should be a top priority. What does the Minister intend to do to

:47:56.:47:59.

reduce fuel poverty in this respect? Number four, what does the Minister

:48:00.:48:04.

and the government intend to do to get climate change targets and keep

:48:05.:48:09.

the lights on? One final point, it is in respect of storage. Renewable

:48:10.:48:17.

energy storage and efficiency are key for the future of energy in the

:48:18.:48:23.

UK. More needs to be done in green energy that is not intermittent. I

:48:24.:48:27.

would urge the Secretary of State to engage in pumped storage. Thank you.

:48:28.:48:37.

Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Not only have we had a very important

:48:38.:48:41.

debate this afternoon, we have also had a very revealing debate.

:48:42.:48:46.

Revealing because it has confirmed are very worst fears that the

:48:47.:48:49.

government called a referendum without first carrying out the

:48:50.:48:51.

analysis as to what could It is nothing but reckless to enter

:48:52.:49:04.

a process without first taking out a risk assessment of the scenarios

:49:05.:49:08.

that could occur. Analysis should have come first, as we have heard

:49:09.:49:14.

from so many members today. We had an excellent debate with real depth

:49:15.:49:21.

and understanding of all issues across the impact of what leaving

:49:22.:49:30.

the EU will mean, whether, as my honourable friend the Shadow

:49:31.:49:33.

Secretary of State said, in respect of climate change and the impact it

:49:34.:49:37.

is having on some of the first people in fat immunities as 2.8 3

:49:38.:49:43.

million households are already in fuel poverty, and as we were told,

:49:44.:49:49.

the fuel bills are already rising. We also heard an excellent speech

:49:50.:49:55.

from the honourable member for Wakefield, who was an outstanding

:49:56.:49:58.

chair of the environment audit commission. She highlighted so many

:49:59.:50:05.

of those protections which are now at risk if we are to move forward

:50:06.:50:09.

with leaving the EU and looking at the advances we have made in the

:50:10.:50:15.

past 40 years, 40 years of marriage to then be put into two years of

:50:16.:50:22.

divorce, and she highlighted issues around air quality, water

:50:23.:50:28.

management, waste and biodiversity, but we were privileged to date to

:50:29.:50:33.

hear the maiden speech from the honourable member for Tooting. It

:50:34.:50:38.

was a tour de force with the energy that she has clearly brought from

:50:39.:50:43.

serving patients in accident and emergency serving her community and

:50:44.:50:49.

ringing that to our benches. We have been honoured to have her in our

:50:50.:50:55.

house and I know she will be an accident advocate for her

:50:56.:51:02.

constituency. We also had excellent speeches from the member for Swansea

:51:03.:51:06.

West, a strong campaigner on air quality and emissions. The member

:51:07.:51:12.

for Bristol East said many of the things I would want to bring up to

:51:13.:51:17.

date as her expertise has brought to this House, and we heard from

:51:18.:51:24.

honourable members across this House about some of the concerns around

:51:25.:51:27.

leaving the EU and the impact it will have. It was the Government's

:51:28.:51:34.

determination that we should have a referendum but first it should have

:51:35.:51:39.

been analysed, what would we be impact of leaving as remaining would

:51:40.:51:46.

have resulted in normal policy processes, then it could have shared

:51:47.:51:50.

the outcomes with the electorate. We heard today the many risks. Not only

:51:51.:51:55.

should this impact assessment have taken place but we should have

:51:56.:51:59.

understood did depth of our regulatory ties with the EU and the

:52:00.:52:05.

scenario planning of what environmental protections the

:52:06.:52:08.

Government would prioritise should the pound plummet as we are now

:52:09.:52:14.

seeing, for instance one question put to me by a member of the public

:52:15.:52:22.

will pillar to of CHP be implemented in full or world the Government

:52:23.:52:28.

scaled back on the 563 million currently received back from the EU

:52:29.:52:33.

and reach its match funding obligations? We need to know the

:52:34.:52:39.

detail. How will farmers remain competitive while addressing

:52:40.:52:44.

challenges and sustaining protections? We have not heard from

:52:45.:52:49.

the Government's front bench how much legislature is tied up with the

:52:50.:52:56.

EU. It is estimated that around 70% of our environmental protections

:52:57.:53:01.

originate from Brussels but what is the real figure and how integrated

:53:02.:53:07.

are we? We've not heard the amount resource needed to carry out

:53:08.:53:11.

detailed analysis of the impact of leaving the EU in that context of a

:53:12.:53:20.

Department of cut at Defra of 57% in 2020, nor the resources needed to

:53:21.:53:25.

re-negotiate each regulation if that is the path we go to and the member

:53:26.:53:30.

for Poole suggested an alternative way forward Derek, how will be not

:53:31.:53:37.

engage with the EU in the future and so many of these issues? How will we

:53:38.:53:43.

regulate and police and enforce a new UK based law system around the

:53:44.:53:49.

environment since this currently occurs in the EU courts, so what

:53:50.:53:53.

will be the mechanisms of the future? We haven't heard the courts

:53:54.:53:59.

of this work or if the people with the right skill set up even present

:54:00.:54:05.

in their departments at this time. We haven't heard how the impact of

:54:06.:54:09.

the fall of the pound, wiping millions of the value of economy,

:54:10.:54:16.

will impact on projects and research, and we haven't seen the

:54:17.:54:20.

analysis of the global impact. Maybe the plan is to simply buy the whole

:54:21.:54:27.

package of Europe, but at what price will this be? Will it be the same as

:54:28.:54:32.

existing EU nations or will we pay more for those benefits? The reason

:54:33.:54:40.

why so many on our benches are concerned about the global impact to

:54:41.:54:44.

the environment is because we believe protect our climate and

:54:45.:54:50.

environment is one of the most important functions of government.

:54:51.:54:54.

We are already witnessing a massive impact of decades of neglect. We see

:54:55.:55:00.

floods and famine, disease and dread, climate change and conflict,

:55:01.:55:07.

and population migration. The impacts can be felt across our

:55:08.:55:14.

globe, including here in the UK. The environment doesn't respect national

:55:15.:55:18.

borders and so from the macro level to the micro level, from the loss of

:55:19.:55:24.

habitats and rarest PCs, the Government have a responsibility to

:55:25.:55:28.

drive Ford a programme of stewardship. By 2010 the UK lead the

:55:29.:55:35.

world on issues like climate change and the environment, something we

:55:36.:55:41.

own our benches are heard of, while indulging there is much more to do,

:55:42.:55:49.

but as we have heard today we have now slipped out of the top ten

:55:50.:55:53.

nations on dealing with issues of climate change, now ranked 13th in

:55:54.:55:59.

the world. That is not how we want to progress on these issues. The UK

:56:00.:56:04.

led the EU through many of these issues to be a major player on the

:56:05.:56:11.

global stage and bringing environmental and and we want to

:56:12.:56:15.

make sure we maintain a strong voice as we move forward to rebalance our

:56:16.:56:22.

national environment. The strength of our influence is now unclear. We

:56:23.:56:28.

will not be at the table of the EU, pressing the EU to go further, and

:56:29.:56:33.

under a failing economy I must press the minister today whether he will

:56:34.:56:40.

now commit to legislate to secure protection of all environmental

:56:41.:56:43.

measures we are currently obliged to meet in the EU. How will he advanced

:56:44.:56:50.

these and regulate to ensure there is enforcement around? We do not

:56:51.:56:56.

want to become known as the dirty man of Europe, as so many have said

:56:57.:57:02.

as we look back at our history, but we want to make real advances on

:57:03.:57:06.

where we are today. They government must urgently act to replace these

:57:07.:57:13.

vital environmental and is in full. On the most simple level, I want the

:57:14.:57:20.

minister to clarify today, will we even see the two long-awaited 25

:57:21.:57:27.

year plans for food and farming and the plan for the environment before

:57:28.:57:31.

the summer recess, as the Government committed to, what are these now

:57:32.:57:38.

based in the box marked" we didn't have a leaf plant so we don't know

:57:39.:57:43.

what are going to do"? Labour wants to ensure that external flashers

:57:44.:57:49.

still lead on this dormant -- pressures. When we look at issues

:57:50.:57:57.

like air quality and we saw the world health organisation report

:57:58.:58:02.

today, this is a public health issue, it impacts on people's

:58:03.:58:07.

respiratory function. I know the impact this has and we heard today

:58:08.:58:14.

how up to 50,000 people's lives are ended amateur league as a result of

:58:15.:58:19.

the quality of their and our country. People are dying

:58:20.:58:25.

prematurely. So what is the Government going to do on the issue

:58:26.:58:33.

of air quality, this urgent issue? We need to know because even in my

:58:34.:58:39.

own city of York, it is a serious issue as people die prematurely but

:58:40.:58:44.

also I have seen planning which will worsen the air quality in our city.

:58:45.:58:51.

There are issues we need to address, how many trees we will plant, how we

:58:52.:58:56.

will bring protection around important directives, as so many

:58:57.:59:01.

colleagues referred to today, and again we want answers and the

:59:02.:59:05.

Government must now set out its strategy to take us forward as it

:59:06.:59:12.

failed to do before the EU referendum, should they leave out

:59:13.:59:19.

occur. Moving forward, Madam Deputy Speaker, perhaps this afternoon, the

:59:20.:59:25.

minister can enlighten us, will he, too continued to apply the

:59:26.:59:31.

precautionary principle where scientific data is not complete or

:59:32.:59:36.

will he agreed with his Minister for farming and food to go down the much

:59:37.:59:42.

weaker US -based approach, which we know has a limit on the way things

:59:43.:59:48.

are moved forward, for example on pesticides, GM crops and food

:59:49.:59:54.

management, often putting profit before environmental and is. The

:59:55.:59:58.

people of our country have a right to know. If there were more time I

:59:59.:00:04.

would raise more concerns over environmental protections. We have a

:00:05.:00:10.

complex and fragile environment. We have worked diligently with our

:00:11.:00:17.

European friends to read balance our environment, and today the

:00:18.:00:21.

Government should have made it clear how we will advance progress made to

:00:22.:00:25.

date. We cannot afford further delay when it comes to this issue. We

:00:26.:00:32.

believe the Government must urgently replicate the EU directives into law

:00:33.:00:36.

and I look forward to hearing the minister's response as to how he

:00:37.:00:41.

will secure our environment for the future years to come. Minister, Mr

:00:42.:00:50.

Rory Stewart. Can I begin, Madam Deputy Speaker, by paying huge

:00:51.:00:55.

tribute to the honourable member for Tooting for her extraordinary maiden

:00:56.:01:02.

speech? There were five elements which encapsulates the heart of this

:01:03.:01:07.

debate, first the sense of history, talking about Nye Bevan, the 1956

:01:08.:01:14.

Clean Air Act, the scale of the challenge we face, her energy, her

:01:15.:01:22.

up the mess and, her sense of place, the fact she said she thought people

:01:23.:01:26.

who said Tooting was becoming a fantastic place was missing the fact

:01:27.:01:32.

she had that it was fantastic all her life, and her sense of the

:01:33.:01:37.

importance of humans in the history of the landscape, whether the leader

:01:38.:01:44.

or her own community. Through her rhetoric and language, her love of

:01:45.:01:54.

this place, she shows as a Member of Parliament a real reason to be

:01:55.:01:59.

optimistic about Parliament and its sovereignty and those things she

:02:00.:02:02.

contributed in her speech I think represent exactly what we hope to

:02:03.:02:07.

bring into the British environment in the future. There have been an

:02:08.:02:13.

enormous number of different questions asked. The Shadow

:02:14.:02:19.

Secretary of State asked on nine different occasions that the

:02:20.:02:22.

Government should respond to specific queries. I counted 35

:02:23.:02:27.

different questions posed by the Shadow Secretary of State and an

:02:28.:02:32.

additional 117 questions posed by other members. I have approximately

:02:33.:02:38.

nine minutes to answer those questions. I will, with the

:02:39.:02:45.

permission of the House, focus on the natural environment rather than

:02:46.:02:50.

energy questions, with apologies to Callum senior, the member for

:02:51.:02:58.

Aberdeen South, and a member for Coatbridge, who provided a

:02:59.:03:03.

discussion around GM and a member for Warrington South, who discussed

:03:04.:03:09.

how domestic legislation underpins UK energy policy and some references

:03:10.:03:15.

to the EU work a little misleading. I'd cannot detail as fully as I

:03:16.:03:20.

would like with the speech even by the member for Bristol East, which

:03:21.:03:26.

raised important points, but I will try to deal with them in the rounds.

:03:27.:03:31.

There were four main types of points made by some eateries, and they form

:03:32.:03:36.

a structure of an answer. The first was that people pointed out,

:03:37.:03:41.

especially the honourable member for Taunton Deane, and the Secretary of

:03:42.:03:52.

State for Energy and Climate Change, they pointed out the importance of

:03:53.:03:56.

being deeply up the mystic about Britain's future after the European

:03:57.:04:03.

Union, partly as the member for Hastings and right pointed out

:04:04.:04:07.

because of the strength in this country, but there were of course

:04:08.:04:13.

immense positives that we derive from our membership of the EU and

:04:14.:04:16.

they have been listed. The honourable members have laid out

:04:17.:04:31.

a very powerful progress that has been made over the last 42 years in

:04:32.:04:38.

air quality, water quality and this is driven by European Union law,

:04:39.:04:43.

European Union financial assistance and by the structures of the

:04:44.:04:47.

European Union that protected our landscape. As the honourable member

:04:48.:04:52.

for Swansea West pointed out, it is indeed important for our

:04:53.:04:55.

international industry to ensure that we have uniform standards so

:04:56.:04:59.

there is not a race to the bottom. We cannot simply think about this

:05:00.:05:07.

island as though we were not exposed to environmental factors from

:05:08.:05:12.

abroad. 85% of our birds are migratory. Between a third and a

:05:13.:05:16.

half of our error blows in from other countries. That is the air

:05:17.:05:20.

pollution coming into our country and our terrestrial biodiversity is

:05:21.:05:23.

dependent on ensuring that isn't acid rain raining on those peat bogs

:05:24.:05:30.

or on those grass lands on which we depend. However, as the honourable

:05:31.:05:35.

member for Wiltshire and the honourable Member for Poole pointed

:05:36.:05:40.

out, we had an extremely strong, powerful tradition of

:05:41.:05:42.

environmentalism in the United Kingdom long before we joined the

:05:43.:05:49.

European Union. Indeed, the history of environmental protection in the

:05:50.:05:52.

United Kingdom stretches back almost 1000 years to the formation of the

:05:53.:05:57.

royal forests in Scotland and the royal forests in England and habitat

:05:58.:06:02.

protection brought in pace to nearly 23% of our landmass at that period.

:06:03.:06:07.

It goes through the contributions of Walter Scott for Wordsworth to

:06:08.:06:10.

ensuring the protection of our landscapes and, indeed, we celebrate

:06:11.:06:15.

over the next four years the anniversary of the Forestry

:06:16.:06:18.

Commission, the centenary of the Forestry Commission, founded in

:06:19.:06:22.

1919. The anniversary of our 19 parks founded in 1947 and the clean

:06:23.:06:31.

air Act itself, passed in 1956. And there will be opportunities

:06:32.:06:34.

available to us from leaving the European Union. The honourable

:06:35.:06:40.

member pointed out that there have been some advantages of European

:06:41.:06:44.

Union funding for flooding, but there have been significant

:06:45.:06:48.

challenges as well. One of the ways in which we would like to address

:06:49.:06:53.

natural responses to the management is to plant trees. In order to do

:06:54.:06:58.

this we need to be able to look at flexible and intelligent ways of

:06:59.:07:01.

moving money between what are currently quite rigid budget

:07:02.:07:06.

structures. If we are going to be dealing with farmers planting trees

:07:07.:07:10.

on the land in order to slow the flow of water, we need to think

:07:11.:07:15.

intelligently about how the pennant since we give for agriculture, the

:07:16.:07:23.

payments were given for the environment and the payment we give

:07:24.:07:25.

for flooding can work together, rather than against each other. When

:07:26.:07:28.

looking at laws we need to make sure we are flexible and there are ways

:07:29.:07:32.

in which rigid legal structures brought into pace by 27 member

:07:33.:07:36.

states have, in the past, made it quite difficult to respond to recent

:07:37.:07:42.

evidence. Again, inspection regimes. Honourable members have raised the

:07:43.:07:49.

issues of inspections. These regimes have, at the worst, sometimes

:07:50.:07:52.

discredited the very environmental regulations which we wish to

:07:53.:07:57.

protect. Finally, as the honourable member pointed out, it is, of

:07:58.:08:02.

course, true that there are perverse consequences of part of the common

:08:03.:08:06.

agricultural policy for the environmental conditions which we

:08:07.:08:11.

value so much. So, the principles on which we now need to move forward

:08:12.:08:16.

would seem, to me, as laid out powerfully by This House and by the

:08:17.:08:19.

honourable member for Bristol East in her initial intervention sixfold.

:08:20.:08:26.

A principal first of realism. A principal of humility. A principal

:08:27.:08:31.

of honesty about conflict. A principal about being honest with

:08:32.:08:34.

the public. A principal of confidence and a principal of

:08:35.:08:38.

identity. If I could expand briefly on those principles. Firstly,

:08:39.:08:43.

realism. We have to acknowledge that leaving the European Union will not

:08:44.:08:47.

mean the government behind. People will continue to be frustrated by

:08:48.:08:52.

bureaucracy, people will continue to have to respond to procurement

:08:53.:08:56.

regulations. We will have to continue to operate inside an

:08:57.:08:59.

international environment and we will have to make compromises.

:09:00.:09:04.

Humility, as the honourable member pointed out, it is not true that

:09:05.:09:08.

everybody in this country is always interested in this environment and

:09:09.:09:12.

we have to be realistic about our power and capacity as the government

:09:13.:09:17.

to respond. An honesty on conflict, land remains a deeply conflicted

:09:18.:09:22.

issue. It will not be possible for us to imagine that simply leaving

:09:23.:09:26.

the European Union will overcome the serious conflict within any other

:09:27.:09:29.

constituencies between different land uses. Between the desire to

:09:30.:09:34.

build housing, the desire to create renewable energy, the desire to

:09:35.:09:39.

produce productive food or to protect the species habitats which

:09:40.:09:44.

we value so much. But the principles of confidence and identity are

:09:45.:09:49.

perhaps the most important of all. This decision in this referendum was

:09:50.:09:54.

made by one of the most well-educated, well travelled

:09:55.:09:57.

populations in the most mature democracy on earth. We need to

:09:58.:10:05.

ensure that we recognise the legitimacy of that democratic choice

:10:06.:10:09.

and we need to put a full energy and optimism behind it. We need to

:10:10.:10:13.

understand that in responding to this, British identity and this

:10:14.:10:18.

extends to England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is

:10:19.:10:21.

fundamentally on our land. We need to do two things in moving forward.

:10:22.:10:29.

We need to reassure people. We need to play a full role in all our

:10:30.:10:33.

international conferences, we need to ensure that in the forthcoming

:10:34.:10:39.

conferences on biodiversity or sites, we play a responsible

:10:40.:10:43.

international role. But can also be far more imaginative. This accept

:10:44.:10:50.

there is a case for a second referendum on an exit package over

:10:51.:10:54.

the precise terms of leaving? We have only agreed to leave in

:10:55.:10:57.

principle and people haven't seen what it has in the can? Absolutely

:10:58.:11:03.

not. I disagree very strongly with that intervention. When I do think

:11:04.:11:09.

the honourable member shows the optimism we need is to your focus on

:11:10.:11:15.

technology and the focus indeed from the honourable member on the markets

:11:16.:11:20.

in China and India. There is so much potential out there. We could show

:11:21.:11:25.

the lead in the Amazon rainforest, we could show the lead in defining,

:11:26.:11:28.

through our natural capital approach, what it means to take it

:11:29.:11:34.

British initiative. Water, water. The minister is suing important

:11:35.:11:38.

things and people are chatting. Minister. In conclusion, land and

:11:39.:11:52.

conflict around land has been fundamental to the problems in our

:11:53.:11:55.

society since the days of Cain and Abel. We can be confident in this

:11:56.:12:01.

country, we have extraordinary natural scientists, we have a very

:12:02.:12:07.

rich civil society with 9 million people connected to environmental

:12:08.:12:12.

NGOs. We have extraordinary legal structures in pace. We have

:12:13.:12:15.

incredible new members of Parliament, such as the honourable

:12:16.:12:19.

member for cooking, bringing the energy and optimism into This House.

:12:20.:12:24.

If we can bring this together, we can prove, in the future, as we have

:12:25.:12:28.

proved over the last millennium, that the British landscape, the

:12:29.:12:32.

British environment and its extraordinary combination of

:12:33.:12:38.

productive food and nature can remain at the heart of our national

:12:39.:12:50.

identity for ever. The question is as on the order paper. Clear at the

:12:51.:12:56.

lobby. Water. The question is is on the

:12:57.:14:38.

order paper. As many as have an opinion say aye. On the contrary,

:14:39.:14:40.

no. The ayes to the right, 229, the noes

:14:41.:25:36.

to the left, 278. The ayes to the right, 229, the noes to the left,

:25:37.:25:45.

278. The noes habit. The noes have it. Unlock. We now come to the

:25:46.:25:56.

second Opposition Day motion in the name of the Leader of the

:25:57.:26:01.

Opposition. The subject is Sessay -- SATs results. I call Angela Rayner

:26:02.:26:08.

to move the motion. I beg to move the motion in my name and in the

:26:09.:26:13.

name of the Leader of the Opposition as set out in the order paper. Madam

:26:14.:26:22.

Deputy Speaker, the 2016 Key Stage 2 SATs tests, which assessed children

:26:23.:26:30.

in reading, writing, punctuation and maths, by the first to assess the

:26:31.:26:35.

new national primary curriculum. The Government claims it has raised

:26:36.:26:40.

expectations for pupils at the end of Key Stage 2 of those at the

:26:41.:26:47.

chalkface, primary teachers, school leaders, say the expected standard

:26:48.:26:52.

for SATs has been set at a level beyond the reach of majority of

:26:53.:26:59.

children. Our children are being set up to fail. Our almost half of

:27:00.:27:09.

11-year-olds will now go on to secondary school having been told

:27:10.:27:12.

they are failures, but the real failures are in this Government, and

:27:13.:27:20.

in particular the current Secretary of State for Education, who pushed

:27:21.:27:23.

ahead with this flawed system despite warnings from education

:27:24.:27:28.

professionals that its assessment system was not fit for purpose.

:27:29.:27:33.

Under this Government children who failed to meet the unrealistic

:27:34.:27:38.

expected targets at the end of Key Stage 2, the 47% of children, will

:27:39.:27:47.

be required to reset these tests in future and school leavers were told

:27:48.:27:51.

yesterday that catch up on link for secondary schools will not increase

:27:52.:27:56.

despite the number of pupils deemed to be the low the expected standard

:27:57.:28:03.

increasing. Madam Deputy Speaker, for these pupils the first year at

:28:04.:28:10.

the school and all the excitement and anticipation that it would bring

:28:11.:28:15.

will instead become an anxious replay of the rolling for tests in

:28:16.:28:21.

English and maths which they sat in primary school. I can only imagine

:28:22.:28:28.

the impact on those young lives to have to go through it all again, to

:28:29.:28:36.

feel a failure. To see their friends getting on when they should be

:28:37.:28:39.

looking ahead to new challenges and new opportunities. I remember being

:28:40.:28:47.

told that I would never amount to anything but look at me now. I want

:28:48.:28:53.

and teachers want every child to know they are amazing. I want an

:28:54.:28:59.

education system that helps every child realise their full potential.

:29:00.:29:04.

I'm grateful to the honourable lady Ford giving way. In the last Labour

:29:05.:29:11.

government we have such a system, every child was told they were

:29:12.:29:16.

succeeding the twin we looked at international league tables we went

:29:17.:29:20.

down and down, and whatever her critique of results this year, does

:29:21.:29:23.

she agree we must have high standards or we will go back to

:29:24.:29:28.

those days when we let in the future of young people by pretending they

:29:29.:29:35.

were successful? I remember under Labour that we had sure start, we

:29:36.:29:40.

had new schools, we had teachers in the profession, we had teachers and

:29:41.:29:46.

children feeling they were happy, at the moment we have teachers taking

:29:47.:29:51.

unprecedented industrial action and leaving the profession at record

:29:52.:29:57.

rates, so I will take no wreck -- lectures from that side of the

:29:58.:30:02.

House. We recognise ongoing assessment and consistent testing in

:30:03.:30:07.

schools is important to help teachers and parents provide new

:30:08.:30:12.

challenges for all children. They can identify and close any gaps in

:30:13.:30:17.

knowledge so all pupils can do well but a proper assessment regime needs

:30:18.:30:23.

consistency and to be understood by all. This Government has utterly

:30:24.:30:30.

fail to deliver on this. The current SATs test goes too far. The

:30:31.:30:36.

Secretary of State has chopped and changed, causing disruption and

:30:37.:30:40.

chaos in schools and extra bureaucracy for teachers. The Key

:30:41.:30:45.

Stage 2 assessments have been an unmitigated disaster and a nightmare

:30:46.:30:50.

for thousands of children ending in disappointment and uncertainty. But

:30:51.:30:57.

they also have serious consequences for thousands of schools because the

:30:58.:31:03.

way this Government uses them as part of the school accountability

:31:04.:31:08.

system. Key Stage 2 SATs are used to rank schools in league tables, they

:31:09.:31:14.

are scrutinised either DFP and regional schools commissioners who

:31:15.:31:16.

form judgments on schools performance. Ofsted used them when

:31:17.:31:23.

forming their inspection judgments and parents take them into account

:31:24.:31:26.

when choosing their children's school. Schools reputations are

:31:27.:31:34.

heavily dependent on how pupils perform in these tests. The National

:31:35.:31:40.

Association of head teachers ask the Secretary of State not to publish

:31:41.:31:45.

the data as she herself conceded it is not to be compared to previous

:31:46.:31:52.

years, and the NAHT general Secretary, given the changes to SATs

:31:53.:31:57.

this year and the mistakes we have seen, it is hard to see how valuable

:31:58.:32:02.

this data will be to parents who want to understand how well a school

:32:03.:32:07.

reforms year on year, but the Government does love a leak table

:32:08.:32:11.

regardless of how accurate it may be. Worryingly the schools

:32:12.:32:18.

commissioners are already using the original results from these tests to

:32:19.:32:23.

identify schools which they can apply their extensive legal powers

:32:24.:32:29.

to force them into academy status on this curious grounds that they are

:32:30.:32:32.

failing, coasting or underperforming. Madam Deputy

:32:33.:32:38.

Speaker, does all this remind you of anything? Children who are judged

:32:39.:32:45.

failures at an early age, being separated from their primary school

:32:46.:32:50.

classmates, schools which are being worryingly condemned as second

:32:51.:32:55.

class, sounds to me like the dark days of 11 plus. Children branded

:32:56.:32:59.

failures before they have even read their teens, separated out from

:33:00.:33:05.

their classmates with all the stigma that can bring. Many adults today

:33:06.:33:10.

still recount the lasting effects this has had on them. Happy too. I

:33:11.:33:20.

thank the honourable lady for giving way and I have to confess I am one

:33:21.:33:25.

such failure of the 12 plus system. Does she agree with any form of

:33:26.:33:30.

testing and if so what type of testing which she brings Ford? I

:33:31.:33:34.

thank him for his intervention and I think I made it here in my opening

:33:35.:33:40.

remarks that we do acknowledge the need for a testing, but it is the

:33:41.:33:46.

chaotic nature in which the Secretary of State has roared in

:33:47.:33:51.

these Newquay stage two SATs which has damaged, and I'm sure the

:33:52.:33:56.

honourable member will recognise the 11 plus 412 plus did cause

:33:57.:34:03.

uncertainty and that feeling, as I know how I felt when I was rounded a

:34:04.:34:08.

feeder, and it does not help young people today.

:34:09.:34:14.

It seems that this government is hell-bent on bringing back the 11

:34:15.:34:19.

plus by the back door. The evidence is in front of us, children being

:34:20.:34:24.

selected on the basis of muddled headed tests. Winners and losers,

:34:25.:34:31.

and failure. The primary skills are being branded in exactly the same

:34:32.:34:39.

way. The 11 plus by any other name. Of course, these tests do not give a

:34:40.:34:43.

rounded picture of the work of individual pupils were their skins.

:34:44.:34:49.

I could not say any better than Mrs Jane Derrick, the head teacher of

:34:50.:34:53.

Lansbury Bridge School who wrote to one of her 11-year-old pupils, then,

:34:54.:34:59.

about his test results. Ben is artistic. She congratulated them on

:35:00.:35:03.

his fabulous progress and wrote, these tests only measure a little

:35:04.:35:08.

bit of you and your abilities. Ben is made up of many other skills and

:35:09.:35:13.

talents that we see and measure in other ways. These tests do not

:35:14.:35:18.

measure your artistic talents, your ability to work in a team, your

:35:19.:35:23.

growing independence, your kindness, your ability to express your

:35:24.:35:30.

opinion, durability in sport, your ability to make and keep friends,

:35:31.:35:35.

your ability to discuss and evaluate your own progress, your design and

:35:36.:35:41.

building talents, your musical ability. This fine head teacher

:35:42.:35:47.

concludes, we are so pleased with all these different talents and

:35:48.:35:51.

abilities which make you the special person you are. These are all of the

:35:52.:35:55.

things we measure to reassure us that you are always making progress

:35:56.:35:59.

and continued to develop as a lovely, bright young man. Well done

:36:00.:36:06.

then, we are very proud of you and I am sure, Madam Deputy Speaker, the

:36:07.:36:09.

whole house will join me in congratulating young then in his

:36:10.:36:13.

development at the tender age of 11. Indeed, to his head teacher for sure

:36:14.:36:19.

and in very real human terms how this test result should not in any

:36:20.:36:23.

way make a child feel that they are not developing well. I thank my

:36:24.:36:32.

honourable friend he makes a very persuasive case. Does she agree with

:36:33.:36:41.

me that we should be encouraging children and giving them that

:36:42.:36:46.

confidence, in particular in areas like mineworker is high levels of

:36:47.:36:50.

deprivation and children are often told by many people that they cannot

:36:51.:36:55.

achieve or go far in life? This adds to that. We should encourage our

:36:56.:36:58.

children, give them the confidence and not discourage them. I thank my

:36:59.:37:04.

honourable friend for his intervention. He is right. That is

:37:05.:37:08.

what we have defeated the concerns of the professionals. When you said

:37:09.:37:12.

children up to feel, that is a real tragedy. The government needs to

:37:13.:37:16.

work with the profession to nature the mistakes this year are not

:37:17.:37:19.

repeated and to build a system that works better for children, parents

:37:20.:37:25.

and schools. These results do not reflect the dedication of teachers

:37:26.:37:28.

and the many hours that they have worked extra to ensure that all

:37:29.:37:32.

children can fulfil their potential, despite the turmoil caused by the

:37:33.:37:37.

Secretary of State's Kell Brook and confusing reforms. Is she aware of

:37:38.:37:46.

the real danger of children leaving primary school without adequate

:37:47.:37:48.

maths and English and the fact that once they have done that, there is

:37:49.:37:53.

only a one in nine chance it will recover the ground necessary to

:37:54.:37:57.

develop into proper adults and is that not a serious matter and should

:37:58.:38:01.

it not be addressed through some form of knowledge of outcomes? I

:38:02.:38:06.

think the honourable member for his intervention and I am only too aware

:38:07.:38:11.

of that, because I failed my GCSEs. I didn't get grade a to C. I am only

:38:12.:38:17.

too aware of that and that is why we had a debate which was well attended

:38:18.:38:22.

regarding early years and intervention there as well. It is

:38:23.:38:25.

important we put structures in pace to help children, not make them feel

:38:26.:38:28.

like failures through our own failures. These stats undermine the

:38:29.:38:35.

morale of our dedicated primary teachers who have battled against

:38:36.:38:39.

the odds to prepare children for tests they use or inappropriate

:38:40.:38:42.

while trying to protect them from the worst consequences. They could

:38:43.:38:47.

result in thousands more skills being forced to become academies.

:38:48.:38:53.

They do not reflect the hard work of the children with special

:38:54.:39:00.

educational needs. These tests are designed to measure what children

:39:01.:39:05.

cannot do, not what they can do. Nor do they measure the many ways in

:39:06.:39:09.

which our children learn to develop, succeed every day of their young

:39:10.:39:15.

lives. The impact on children of these tests is best illustrated by

:39:16.:39:21.

the parents. Rachel McCullen from Birmingham says, mice and is tired,

:39:22.:39:25.

stressed and paranoid he is going to feel. I cannot wait for this week to

:39:26.:39:32.

be over. Catherine Lee from Bath, my son hardly slept on Sunday night and

:39:33.:39:37.

he was nervous on Monday morning, despite is telling him that these

:39:38.:39:41.

tests are not the be all and end all. It is way too much pressure at

:39:42.:39:48.

11. Madam Deputy Speaker, we have already forced the government into a

:39:49.:39:52.

U-turn on forced academies edition but they are using these results to

:39:53.:39:57.

compel even more academisation through the back door. Is hardly

:39:58.:40:03.

surprising that teachers and school leaders have lost confidence in the

:40:04.:40:05.

Secretary of State and education policies. Guidance arrived late and

:40:06.:40:12.

changed frequently. Test papers were leaked and the design of test

:40:13.:40:17.

pauper. Preparation for the tests had a negative impact on access to a

:40:18.:40:25.

broad and balanced curriculum. 90% of teachers thought that the changes

:40:26.:40:30.

had a negative impact on the experience children had at school.

:40:31.:40:38.

Teachers spoke of demoralisation, demotivation and physical and mental

:40:39.:40:43.

distress. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a damning indictment of the

:40:44.:40:49.

Secretary of State's performance. She has been entrusted with the

:40:50.:40:53.

future of our children and the future of our country. She has

:40:54.:40:59.

failed. We do not need any test to see that. The question is as on the

:41:00.:41:08.

order paper. Secretary of State, Nicky Morgan. Madam Deputy Speaker,

:41:09.:41:16.

thank you very much indeed. It is a pleasure to speak under your

:41:17.:41:20.

chairmanship. I wanted to give the honourable lady the benefit of the

:41:21.:41:26.

doubt. I know she hasn't been Secretary of State for Education for

:41:27.:41:28.

very long. I can sense a passion for this subject both in terms of her

:41:29.:41:33.

own experience in education, but also in terms of her family. I have

:41:34.:41:38.

to say to the House that the honourable lady's speech captured

:41:39.:41:42.

everything that is wrong with the Labour Party at the moment. Mad

:41:43.:41:49.

conspiracy theories, the fairing to the unions and zero answers to the

:41:50.:41:54.

problems facing this country and, in this case, it is young people let

:41:55.:42:01.

down by the Labour Party, by the Labour government who consistently

:42:02.:42:04.

sold them short in terms of their life chances. The honourable lady

:42:05.:42:09.

was wrong on all counts. Wrong on tests, wrong on selection, wrong on

:42:10.:42:13.

giving young people the best start in life. Madam Deputy Speaker,

:42:14.:42:19.

nothing, nothing at all, is more important than making sure young

:42:20.:42:23.

people master the basics of the three hours and the master them

:42:24.:42:28.

early. If they do not come at struggling for the rest of their

:42:29.:42:32.

lives. Denied the opportunity to realise their full potential. That

:42:33.:42:36.

is why making sure that every child in this country has a good grasp of

:42:37.:42:40.

literacy and numeracy is a matter of social justice. I am grateful to my

:42:41.:42:49.

right honourable friend. Does she agree with me that what is sad is

:42:50.:42:53.

that the party opposite appears to think it more important to let

:42:54.:42:55.

children are ready for secondary school than actually to ensure that

:42:56.:43:01.

they are? I couldn't agree with my honourable friend, the former

:43:02.:43:05.

chairman of the Education Select Committee, enough. He is absolutely

:43:06.:43:09.

right. The party opposite appears to want to sell young people short,

:43:10.:43:13.

rather than actually being clear with them about the standards needed

:43:14.:43:17.

to compete with the best in this country and the best in the world.

:43:18.:43:23.

When this government came to office in 2010, too many young people are

:43:24.:43:26.

not entering secondary school able to read, write and add up well

:43:27.:43:30.

enough. Pupils in England were far behind their peers in top performing

:43:31.:43:37.

countries across the globe. International test at International

:43:38.:43:40.

test should other nations surging ahead while poor performance in

:43:41.:43:43.

England stagnated. The OECD identified England is one of the few

:43:44.:43:48.

countries with the basic skills -- skills of school leavers are no

:43:49.:43:57.

better than the grandparent's generations. Central to the scandal

:43:58.:43:59.

was that the curriculum into in many primary schools under the tests

:44:00.:44:01.

pupils were taking were not up to scratch. I am grateful to the

:44:02.:44:09.

Secretary of State and can tell her that in my constituency we have some

:44:10.:44:12.

really spectacular primary schools. We also have some outstanding

:44:13.:44:19.

secondary schools, but actually, what I find, as echo around the

:44:20.:44:22.

screws in my constituency is that too many young people are that down

:44:23.:44:28.

at the secondary stage of their education. They come out of primary

:44:29.:44:32.

school with very good results and they slip back over the five years

:44:33.:44:37.

they are in secondary school. What is she going to do about standards

:44:38.:44:41.

in secondary education as well as in primary? At the risk of strain of

:44:42.:44:49.

the subject matter of this debate, which is firmly on key stage two, I

:44:50.:44:53.

won't give the honourable gentleman on the details that we could have

:44:54.:44:57.

had if we had a proper debate on education, but we are reforming our

:44:58.:45:03.

GCSEs, we are be forming other aspects are also looking at

:45:04.:45:06.

technical and professional education. An increase of young

:45:07.:45:11.

people at 16 are apprenticeships. We launched a skills plan. I don't

:45:12.:45:15.

disagree with them that there are challenges at both stages and I know

:45:16.:45:19.

that the Chief inspector of Ofsted has identified those first three

:45:20.:45:23.

years at secondary school as one of the times when children, especially

:45:24.:45:27.

bright children from disadvantaged backgrounds, slipped backwards. That

:45:28.:45:30.

is a matter of social justice and I think we can find common cause in

:45:31.:45:36.

tackling that. The trouble with the attitude of the party opposite is

:45:37.:45:40.

that it allowed Labour politicians to trumpet ever higher pass rate but

:45:41.:45:45.

the price was low standards letting down the young people trying to

:45:46.:45:53.

master these vital subjects. Just to reinforce it would be Secretary of

:45:54.:45:58.

State is making, is she concerned with the observation of the national

:45:59.:46:02.

numeracy society that 78% of the adult population in this country

:46:03.:46:07.

scarcely reach level two in maths? That is an appalling situation and

:46:08.:46:11.

it is one that we really must work with total devotion to put right and

:46:12.:46:16.

the tests we are discussing today are one too a tool box we must use.

:46:17.:46:24.

I entirely agree with the chairman of the Education Select Committee.

:46:25.:46:27.

Numeracy and literacy and basic skills, the building blocks. The

:46:28.:46:30.

Prime Minister has called them the ultimate vocational subjects and it

:46:31.:46:34.

is something we need to see everybody having confidence in. One

:46:35.:46:38.

thing we have done is in terms of funding at post 16 levels is to

:46:39.:46:42.

require those who did not get a grade C is to continue taking it. In

:46:43.:46:47.

terms of the results from last week, 70% of the key stage two pupils

:46:48.:46:58.

taking the new test achieved expected standards in mathematics.

:46:59.:47:00.

That is 70%. That is through the hard work of those taking it and

:47:01.:47:03.

they are to be congratulated. This government refused to accept the

:47:04.:47:05.

status quo that young people down. That is why we consulted experts and

:47:06.:47:10.

introduced a new world-class primary school curriculum. That criticism

:47:11.:47:14.

raised the bar on what counts as a good enough standard some children

:47:15.:47:18.

would leave primary school genuinely ready for success in secondary

:47:19.:47:22.

studies. To measure how schools and pupils perform against the new

:47:23.:47:26.

curriculum, new test were required. I know some oppose testing, but they

:47:27.:47:31.

could not be more wrong. The honourable lady was challenged by

:47:32.:47:34.

the former chairman for my honourable friend on what tests she

:47:35.:47:38.

would introduce and she could not say. I think we can agree that tests

:47:39.:47:42.

are a vital part of teaching because they allow teachers to know whether

:47:43.:47:47.

a pupil has understood key subject, they give parents confidence that

:47:48.:47:50.

their children are on track and they allow schools to identify what

:47:51.:47:55.

support is needed. Let me make progress and I will give way. These

:47:56.:48:00.

tests are not about open children to account and they are not exams,

:48:01.:48:05.

because the best schools make the taking of tests as low stress as

:48:06.:48:09.

possible. As one teacher said, the children had such a positive

:48:10.:48:12.

attitude which definitely paid off. Let me give way. She will know some

:48:13.:48:19.

of the concerns teachers have on this particular issue and may I ask

:48:20.:48:23.

what she is doing to assuage these concerns and engage with the

:48:24.:48:26.

profession and more importantly ensured that mixture more than 53%

:48:27.:48:30.

of children are meeting the expected standards? I am aware of the

:48:31.:48:39.

concerns. I see the e-mails and letters, I have conversations with

:48:40.:48:42.

teachers at every school I go and visit and I think it is inevitable

:48:43.:48:51.

It will be a challenging year and I take that as somebody who was among

:48:52.:48:58.

the first to take the new GCSEs in the 1980s. We are listening to

:48:59.:49:05.

feedback from teachers about the structure for the frameworks and we

:49:06.:49:08.

will continue to do that. I'd talk about a positive attitude towards

:49:09.:49:14.

SATs because this is not unique. Pulling phone that 60 super-centre

:49:15.:49:23.

of pupils either do not mind for two not enjoy -- do not mind taking the

:49:24.:49:29.

test. The Administration was not as smooth as it could have been and for

:49:30.:49:35.

that we have apologise, but where errors occurred we took immediate

:49:36.:49:39.

action, making sure the overall roll-out was a success. Low results

:49:40.:49:43.

do not represent a failure of reforms. It is not possible to

:49:44.:49:49.

compare this year's results with last year's. Because we have raised

:49:50.:49:55.

a new curriculum and raised the bar, we knew that the bar would be lower,

:49:56.:50:03.

and this shows the contrast between parties because we want children to

:50:04.:50:08.

understand the curriculum so they compete with the best in the world

:50:09.:50:11.

and not to risk than leaving school without the skills they need to

:50:12.:50:16.

succeed, and the party opposite seems to be happy for that to

:50:17.:50:21.

happen. They forget it isn't the children in leafy skills with

:50:22.:50:27.

supportive parents who most need the primary curriculum, but the ones who

:50:28.:50:32.

were not brought up with high aspirations, who needs teachers to

:50:33.:50:37.

aim high for them. That is what these tests are about. Results

:50:38.:50:40.

showed that schools have resoundingly risen to meet that

:50:41.:50:47.

higher bar. Two thirds of pupils achieve the expected standard in

:50:48.:50:50.

Reading, seven in ten achieve that in mass, nearly three quarters

:50:51.:50:55.

achieved it in writing, so despite doom mongering, more than half are

:50:56.:51:01.

giving people achieve the expected standard in all three subjects, a

:51:02.:51:05.

number that will rise as schools and pupils experience more of the new

:51:06.:51:10.

curriculum. What does this mean for children who did not meet the

:51:11.:51:15.

standard? It means secondary schools can now give those pupils the

:51:16.:51:19.

support they need. It does not and never has meant that those children

:51:20.:51:25.

have somehow failed. The only people who used these results to label

:51:26.:51:30.

children figures are the National union of teachers, now join either

:51:31.:51:35.

the Labour Party. That is shameful. I will not give way. Let me be clear

:51:36.:51:42.

about what this means for schools. We believe schools have to be held

:51:43.:51:45.

to account for the results their pupils achieve but they need to be

:51:46.:51:51.

held to account fairly, which is quite we judge schools not just on

:51:52.:51:55.

the standards they achieved but the progress they make with every child,

:51:56.:52:00.

so schools with charging intakes get proper permission for the

:52:01.:52:03.

achievement they make in pushing their pupils to success. On top of

:52:04.:52:10.

that I have also announced that the proportion of schools judged to be

:52:11.:52:13.

allow the floor when the new progress bar is set ill be no more

:52:14.:52:18.

than one percentage point higher than last year. That progress bar

:52:19.:52:24.

will be released in September and no school can be the divide is below

:52:25.:52:30.

the floor until then. I was struck by just how easily the honourable

:52:31.:52:35.

lady's speech could have been written by the NU teeth and

:52:36.:52:41.

presented a final stage of the Labour Party's transformation into

:52:42.:52:45.

the parliamentary wing of the NU teeth. There was a greater presence

:52:46.:52:52.

on the benches opposite for a question on the NU teeth strike then

:52:53.:52:55.

there was for education questions the day before. In March we set that

:52:56.:53:02.

it planned to tackle areas of underperformance but we did not

:53:03.:53:07.

expect one of those areas of underperformance would be the NU

:53:08.:53:12.

teeth itself. There was enough to use children to oppose every reform

:53:13.:53:17.

designed to be worn great teaching and enable schools to tackle the not

:53:18.:53:21.

so good as a further example of chronic underperformance by that

:53:22.:53:26.

union on behalf of of its members, and that they do for those children

:53:27.:53:31.

that their members work with. We see that same attitude now from the

:53:32.:53:36.

opposition. I have seen the transformation of the Labour Party's

:53:37.:53:40.

attitude to our reforms, from the secret support of the memorable for

:53:41.:53:47.

Stoke Central, and now the outright hostility to raising standards from

:53:48.:53:51.

the honourable lady opposite, and I hope the member for Durham will

:53:52.:53:56.

forgive me for lacking the time to work out where she stood, so the

:53:57.:54:01.

Labour Party have firmly chosen to become the anti-standards party, the

:54:02.:54:07.

voice of ideas and determine to protect vested interests and unions

:54:08.:54:12.

rather than putting children first, from the party of education

:54:13.:54:18.

education education to the party of low standards, low aspiration and

:54:19.:54:23.

low expectations. I don't want to end the speech by focusing on the

:54:24.:54:28.

collapsing party opposite but by saying thank you. Rather than giving

:54:29.:54:33.

down the achievements of schools and pupils I want to commend them. The

:54:34.:54:39.

Secretary of State is not giving way. Is she? Thank you to the

:54:40.:54:47.

teachers who again have risen to the challenge to meet and deliver for

:54:48.:54:53.

young people. As I have said before, teaching is the most noble of

:54:54.:54:56.

professions and last week's achievement in helping young people

:54:57.:55:02.

demonstrate mastery of the basics is an example of why. I urge the House

:55:03.:55:10.

to reject the motion. Sometimes in these did its criticising the

:55:11.:55:14.

Government can be quite difficult but when the minister describes the

:55:15.:55:20.

back-up with SATs is a great success, criticising government

:55:21.:55:25.

policy is more like shooting fish in a barrel. I would like to start by

:55:26.:55:35.

referring to a headteacher in my constituency, headteacher of the

:55:36.:55:39.

largest primary school in the North West, who put his pupils through

:55:40.:55:44.

SATs recently. He was so shocked by the outcome, and this is a standard

:55:45.:55:49.

middle-class school, he was so shocked he felt that necessary to

:55:50.:55:53.

write home to the pupils in the following terms. He wrote to them

:55:54.:56:02.

saying that SATs were one big mess, and told the children to look on the

:56:03.:56:06.

bright side. He said the only thing people would remember about the SATs

:56:07.:56:11.

was that they were one big mess. He said of pupils, your results will

:56:12.:56:17.

not stop you achieving well at high school and being a success in the

:56:18.:56:20.

future, but what you got to the back of your mind and move on, he said

:56:21.:56:25.

there must is important in life that these tests were not fair. This is a

:56:26.:56:32.

very experienced headteacher of a very large primary school in a

:56:33.:56:37.

standard middle-class area with a record of success. He said the

:56:38.:56:41.

pupils, they were harder than usual and you did not get the chance to

:56:42.:56:47.

show how much you learn. Schools all over the country have been the same,

:56:48.:56:52.

I think we all feel that their own, you feel let down because you work

:56:53.:56:55.

hard and did not get what you deserve. Your teachers feel the same

:56:56.:56:59.

because they tried to help you achieve and it has not turned out as

:57:00.:57:07.

they would have wanted. He goes on to say what a great experience it

:57:08.:57:11.

has been having them at school, and says compared to everything you have

:57:12.:57:17.

enjoyed at school, test scores mean very little especially when the test

:57:18.:57:23.

was unfair anyway. I wonder if the honourable gentleman is as

:57:24.:57:29.

disappointed as I am that head like this did not write when we had

:57:30.:57:32.

inflation in standards and the perception of success but no reality

:57:33.:57:39.

to success, that letters like that were not written home to parents

:57:40.:57:43.

then, because it would be good if they showed similar outrage at that

:57:44.:57:48.

selling out as at the implementation of a new higher standard. I am sure

:57:49.:57:54.

he was doing what he thought necessary at the time, but he

:57:55.:58:00.

concludes by saying we don't need tests to tell us how great we are.

:58:01.:58:03.

The worst thing about that letter is the need to remove the feeling

:58:04.:58:08.

children have, hard-working children, that they have failed. I

:58:09.:58:14.

don't think anyone here is against summit of assessment of children's

:58:15.:58:19.

progress. I don't think you're against meaningful feedback or it

:58:20.:58:25.

cool for establishing a baseline for improvement. No one wants to go back

:58:26.:58:30.

to the days of total freedom where there were no reasonable expect

:58:31.:58:35.

patients but we all have to learn something from places like Finland,

:58:36.:58:40.

where they have very few tests like our SATs and do very well, Wayne

:58:41.:58:47.

need to learn from experts and from the teachers who have to implement

:58:48.:58:52.

what we impose on them, and we need a sense which is lacking from the

:58:53.:58:59.

Secretary of State's comment of comment enterprise with the teaching

:59:00.:59:04.

profession. I note the NU teeth are not the teaching profession that she

:59:05.:59:08.

needs to support what teachers are trying to do. We need humility, and

:59:09.:59:15.

if I could illustrate that I'd taking a look at grammar, because I

:59:16.:59:21.

looked at the grammar sections of the test, I think grammar has a

:59:22.:59:29.

definition as a living language. I think it helps more in the study of

:59:30.:59:33.

foreign language than your own and I would argue that the greatest

:59:34.:59:38.

orators in this place are not necessarily the greatest

:59:39.:59:42.

grammarians. Most people have been speaking dramatically most of their

:59:43.:59:46.

life with a fair amount of success, much like a character who had been

:59:47.:59:52.

talking prose all his life. I think there may be value in trying to

:59:53.:59:57.

understand the rules once unconsciously follows. It is

:59:58.:00:05.

generally fun, clause analysis, I enjoyed it, but it is arguable how

:00:06.:00:11.

far that benefits the users of language and it is debatable how

:00:12.:00:17.

much meta- vocabulary one needs to acquire, especially as there is no

:00:18.:00:23.

particular consistency and opacity in what terminology one needs. I did

:00:24.:00:32.

Latin, preferring the imperfect to the past progressive, all these

:00:33.:00:37.

things are rarely esoteric but it is arguable how far you can go down

:00:38.:00:41.

this road with the ascending into the type of pedantry about splitting

:00:42.:00:50.

in some -- infinite others, but it is not arguable that imposing a test

:00:51.:00:57.

in haste of limited value with scant preparation and discouraging

:00:58.:01:01.

well-intentioned pupils and teachers in the process is rash. It requires

:01:02.:01:08.

some serious explanation and apology. It is a pleasure to take

:01:09.:01:17.

part in this debate and talk about SATs this year. When a character

:01:18.:01:23.

select committee, we had the SATs fiasco under the previous

:01:24.:01:29.

government, a true mess of SATs. What we have this year is a new

:01:30.:01:35.

assessment and what I can share with the House, having chaired the

:01:36.:01:41.

committee, is whenever you bring in new assessment is you get some

:01:42.:01:44.

volatility, you don't get everything right and I would not try to claim

:01:45.:01:49.

we have this year, but when you bring that in you get volatility and

:01:50.:01:55.

then over time you see improvement, and the central question is how are

:01:56.:02:00.

we going to raise standards? The first question is, are we doing a

:02:01.:02:06.

good unit job? That would have been a good question for the Shadow

:02:07.:02:10.

Secretary of State to answer. Were we in 2010 or two day? The answer is

:02:11.:02:18.

always partial, but if you look around the world it appears too many

:02:19.:02:24.

children in this country are not given the requisite skills and

:02:25.:02:31.

knowledge to flourish in secondary skill with lifelong negative impacts

:02:32.:02:36.

on them and their families. We didn't hear that from the Shadow

:02:37.:02:39.

Secretary of State, instead we had a rather incoherent, and I don't mean

:02:40.:02:46.

to be overly harsh on one of her first outings, but it seemed like a

:02:47.:02:53.

passionate enunciation of testing because if you feedback the result

:02:54.:02:57.

of those tests, some people will be told they are not at the required

:02:58.:03:00.

standard and others told they are, it seemed to be an attack on that in

:03:01.:03:06.

principle, and that was married with a public statement that she and her

:03:07.:03:11.

party believe we should still have tests. I don't see how those could

:03:12.:03:16.

be put together. It seemed extraordinary to me and I think she

:03:17.:03:23.

needs to think clearly, that is what education policy requires, because

:03:24.:03:28.

it is not just a political fight in this House, it has real world

:03:29.:03:32.

affects on children what happens in schools, so I think that was

:03:33.:03:38.

disappointing, so it would be good to hear from the party opposite what

:03:39.:03:43.

they think about tests. They think if 20% of children are led to think

:03:44.:03:50.

they are feeling, there is a standard we aspire to and it is a

:03:51.:03:54.

high standard and not everyone will reach it, it doesn't mean everyone

:03:55.:04:00.

else is worthless or have not done a good job but we have to give people

:04:01.:04:04.

a objective ideas of where they would like to be, or do we throw

:04:05.:04:10.

that away because it might demoralise some?

:04:11.:04:19.

Thank you very much. It is a great pleasure to have the opportunity to

:04:20.:04:25.

comment on my predecessor's observations. Does he agree with me

:04:26.:04:29.

that these tests are really part of it wider mission to improve

:04:30.:04:35.

standards and they are linked to differences in the curriculum, they

:04:36.:04:38.

are linked to the average good that we have, which is to give young

:04:39.:04:44.

people the aspiration and the tools to deliver on the aspiration? That

:04:45.:04:50.

is what this is about. Does he agree that is part of our own

:04:51.:04:55.

determination to give young people more opportunity in life? I do agree

:04:56.:05:02.

with my honourable friend. When I defer to the honourable gentleman of

:05:03.:05:06.

the city give such a fine speech, I would also have to say I did not

:05:07.:05:09.

like his use of the split infinitive and would prefer it was not used in

:05:10.:05:15.

This House. Then that is because I am a pedant in that respect. I do

:05:16.:05:21.

agree with my honourable friend. There is a genuine argument to be

:05:22.:05:28.

made. How practically useful is grammar? What is it designed for? Is

:05:29.:05:33.

it excessive in its extent and publication and effect compared to

:05:34.:05:37.

what is sought from which these are legitimate questions. Perhaps it

:05:38.:05:42.

does need to be rolled back on. That is where we can have a more useful

:05:43.:05:47.

dialogue. To focus on the practicalities, rather than to be in

:05:48.:05:52.

this rather... This suggestion. I will give way in a moment. Instead

:05:53.:05:59.

we have moved from the contradictory positions and then we moved on to a

:06:00.:06:07.

crazed assessment that it was like the 11 plus. The whole point of 11

:06:08.:06:12.

plus was that it was used to divide children and select them and I don't

:06:13.:06:15.

think anyone can suggest that is what has happened this year. I would

:06:16.:06:22.

like the honourable gentleman for giving way. To stop this becoming a

:06:23.:06:27.

sterile debate, let me say that I don't think there is anybody in This

:06:28.:06:33.

House speaking now he is in favour of not trying to improve standards

:06:34.:06:36.

in schools. I also think that is a consensus that testing is part of

:06:37.:06:42.

improving standards. What I was disappointed with in the speech from

:06:43.:06:45.

the Secretary of State was that what the debate is about is that there

:06:46.:06:49.

have been real problems with the tests this year, which is the point

:06:50.:06:53.

the honourable gentleman has made. What we didn't hear from the

:06:54.:06:56.

Secretary of State is what she intends to do about those problems

:06:57.:07:04.

to put them right for next year. I am grateful to the honourable

:07:05.:07:12.

gentleman. All new assessments and tests create additional volatility.

:07:13.:07:16.

If you remember the English GCSE changes. It was called a fiasco, I

:07:17.:07:21.

would call it a furore. When it went to court it turns out that the

:07:22.:07:26.

unions had said was a disgrace, the schools said it was nothing to do

:07:27.:07:30.

with them, they lost on every count, because it was a new test. The next

:07:31.:07:38.

year at the same test, is considered badly the hell can do it better.

:07:39.:07:41.

They read the spec and await had to do previously and if other technical

:07:42.:07:45.

changes, they were made. This is a new assessment. It is not a

:07:46.:07:50.

disaster. What we need to do is unpick the components, pathetic

:07:51.:07:53.

carefully, or it gets the right balance between raising standards,

:07:54.:07:59.

having high standards and not creating something which is negative

:08:00.:08:03.

in the way it is perceived by children in schools. This year will

:08:04.:08:10.

be difficult to embed a new assessment, but with my friend agree

:08:11.:08:17.

with me that the new curriculum of assessment which puts children

:08:18.:08:23.

through writing Mastriet is preferable to moving them through

:08:24.:08:26.

the system without having a grasp of the subject which they should have?

:08:27.:08:31.

I agree with my honourable friend. If you are saying are we doing a

:08:32.:08:36.

good enough job and if the answer is no, it is not because we're lazy

:08:37.:08:42.

teachers. Fundamentally, if we are not doing as good a job as our

:08:43.:08:46.

neighbours and competitors do that we need to raise standards. When you

:08:47.:08:49.

do that, there will be a shock to the system. Partly that would be

:08:50.:08:54.

because of the volatility and the adjustment, but partly it would be

:08:55.:08:57.

because the system needs that shock. It needs to be told. One thing I

:08:58.:09:03.

clashed with the honourable lady on was the issue of whether simply

:09:04.:09:09.

raising the bar, what in itself does that do to raise standards? There is

:09:10.:09:13.

a mixed answer, but one thing I have seen in the system is standards

:09:14.:09:18.

rising partly because the bar was raised. Because there is clarity

:09:19.:09:22.

over what was required and the truth is whatever the difficulties,

:09:23.:09:27.

customisation, all sorts of issues we can talk about and complexities

:09:28.:09:31.

within it, but the fundamentals of our education system,

:09:32.:09:36.

notwithstanding the downsides, is that we have better schools out

:09:37.:09:40.

there and we had six years ago. Part of that has been about stating

:09:41.:09:43.

clearly what you want and setting out what it is asking schools to

:09:44.:09:48.

meet the challenge. I have absolute confidence that mixture we will seek

:09:49.:09:52.

more than 53% children meeting those things as schools trust. Head

:09:53.:09:57.

teachers will work out how better to use the people and have better to

:09:58.:10:05.

use the funds they have. I just wanted to ask the honourable

:10:06.:10:09.

gentleman on that point, going through change is difficult, does

:10:10.:10:12.

the government have a role to play in making sure that we keep our

:10:13.:10:16.

teachers with us because that is the thing I worry about most of all,

:10:17.:10:20.

change is hard for the children, Hartford teachers, but our teachers

:10:21.:10:24.

are under unprecedented stress at the moment and I worry for them was

:10:25.:10:28.

the does the government have a role to keep an eye on that and listen to

:10:29.:10:34.

them? She is right. The whole house has a role to play. Simply

:10:35.:10:39.

trumpeting of the negatives as I think the honourable lady did can be

:10:40.:10:46.

more devastating if you are more understated than trying to suggest

:10:47.:10:49.

this is the return to the 11 plus, which it clearly isn't. There are

:10:50.:10:53.

issues around engaging with teachers. It was a fairly vicious

:10:54.:10:59.

assault on the National Union of Teachers by the Secretary of State.

:11:00.:11:02.

Some people might think it was over the top. My experience of the

:11:03.:11:05.

National Union of Teachers is that it is not over the top and they

:11:06.:11:10.

oppose almost everything. It is tragic and I can say by way of

:11:11.:11:14.

uplift is not that I don't meet teachers who are concerned about

:11:15.:11:18.

changes in the curriculum, changes in assessment, the speed from the

:11:19.:11:22.

end of the telescope, so to they are genuinely feeling that it is

:11:23.:11:28.

difficult and challenging but there are a lot of positives when I speak

:11:29.:11:34.

to those teachers down from the national representatives of the NUJ.

:11:35.:11:44.

-- nu T. We need to keep teachers on board and recognise they are the

:11:45.:11:47.

most important people in the system. The one thing out there in five

:11:48.:11:50.

years chairing the committee was that is the most important thing. He

:11:51.:11:55.

has only important if they print out the best in the teachers. Teacher

:11:56.:12:02.

quality is transformational. I have broken a promise not to be too long.

:12:03.:12:07.

The example of Finland who have liked testing but very strong

:12:08.:12:13.

teacher buy in, what conclusions does withdraw from the favourable

:12:14.:12:16.

ranking in the league tables converted to us? He is right to lead

:12:17.:12:25.

a challenge down though he also mentioned that he remained in favour

:12:26.:12:29.

of tests as well. Once you move to a certain level of excellence, of

:12:30.:12:33.

course, if you are recruiting teachers from the top 30% of

:12:34.:12:38.

graduates with ten people competing for each job, not only did you get

:12:39.:12:43.

people with high academic ability, you can select them with enthusiasm

:12:44.:12:46.

and apathy and other skills and you have a first-class class workforce.

:12:47.:12:51.

We are a bigger country, we have different challenges and we do not

:12:52.:12:56.

recruit teaching force from the same pool that they do in the land. If

:12:57.:13:03.

the honourable gentleman ever read about how systems get better, it is

:13:04.:13:07.

a basic thing, but you have to hear it to realise it, systems are

:13:08.:13:11.

different. You have to have different interventions at different

:13:12.:13:14.

points in the development of the system and I look forward to the day

:13:15.:13:19.

when we have such a self-confident, self-critical, self improving

:13:20.:13:26.

education system that we can slowly drop away, cut down Ofsted, we can

:13:27.:13:31.

cut down the accountability system and leave that system to keep on

:13:32.:13:35.

improving by itself. He recently honourable lady and the honourable

:13:36.:13:39.

gentleman and those of us on this side of the House haven't got to

:13:40.:13:44.

that point is that we don't have the confidence for it but I hope it

:13:45.:13:50.

will, one day. One final point if I may, just on this issue of the

:13:51.:13:54.

stress of children. It is very important that we don't talk of this

:13:55.:13:58.

lurid talk of failure and it is important we do say to schools, look

:13:59.:14:02.

at the schools where children are shown no stress. Is it possible,

:14:03.:14:07.

does the system mean all children have to be stressed is remarkable is

:14:08.:14:12.

that? No, because we can find many instances where the children are

:14:13.:14:16.

suffering to stress. They are prepared for these tests without it

:14:17.:14:20.

feeling like some great deal coming down the road that their future

:14:21.:14:24.

depends upon and the message I think we should send out from This House

:14:25.:14:28.

would be to say two screws, look, learn from those who don't stress on

:14:29.:14:34.

kids and, actually, use the tests as an assessment for learning rather

:14:35.:14:39.

than making it into this thing. Just because teachers and head teachers

:14:40.:14:44.

need to ensure whatever stress the feeling and they are accountable for

:14:45.:14:47.

the results and they should be, that they do not pass that stress on to

:14:48.:14:52.

children. We know that can happen, it does happen and it needs to

:14:53.:14:58.

happen everywhere. I want to say at the outset that I am a child of the

:14:59.:15:04.

70s when grammar purism wasn't up to much. We are of the same vintage. We

:15:05.:15:11.

are exactly the same age. I will not be a grammar fascist or purist in

:15:12.:15:15.

this way. We played in the sand that rather than learning how to decline

:15:16.:15:21.

your declensions or whatever. I wanted to contribute to this debate

:15:22.:15:25.

today because of the case which was raised to me about the weakened by a

:15:26.:15:29.

constituent and deputy head teacher of this good in my constituency,

:15:30.:15:33.

Christ the Saviour, which is a Church of England school and it is

:15:34.:15:36.

outstanding in all four categories. It is not Bash Street screws, gas

:15:37.:15:43.

Street comprehensive, the deputy head came to me. I went to school I

:15:44.:15:54.

have known her for 40 years. Both screws I attended art in my

:15:55.:15:59.

constituency. I am a mum bringing up my own in the borough and Christ the

:16:00.:16:02.

Saviour is a very well regarded schools. This weekend I went to the

:16:03.:16:09.

Carnival and she literally grabbed me by the lapels and said can you

:16:10.:16:14.

tell Nicky Morgan is, can you tell her from me? I thought now is my

:16:15.:16:21.

opportunity. What Katie says, she is worried about the floor standards of

:16:22.:16:25.

Key stage two. I read the headlines like everyone else that almost half

:16:26.:16:31.

of primary pupils will not reach the required standard, that issue is

:16:32.:16:34.

with the marking. I've wanted to please directly this. What she tells

:16:35.:16:41.

me is the key stage two reading paper was so relieved Mark that 55

:16:42.:16:47.

out of 86 papers, that is 64%, had to be returned for re-marking and

:16:48.:16:52.

sometimes these problems seem really very minor. First of all, it cost

:16:53.:16:57.

them ?9 per paper if the complaint is not upheld. Economically, that is

:16:58.:17:05.

not a good use of money. They are in fear of sending things like because

:17:06.:17:10.

there might be a penalty. Key stage two, the GPS paper, grammar,

:17:11.:17:14.

contrition and spelling, the conflict there is that it is an

:17:15.:17:19.

exceptionally harsh marking scheme, so, for example, if you insert a

:17:20.:17:24.

semicolon in the correct pace in the sentence but the people insert it

:17:25.:17:29.

too large a size, so it comes out larger than the letters, that is

:17:30.:17:34.

marked wrong. Now Mark is given. Zero. Those kind of things. She said

:17:35.:17:43.

she must go on and on. She said she could give me more. The point has

:17:44.:17:49.

been made from opposite that we are and the testing. That is not the

:17:50.:17:54.

case. We presided over them for all those years and is the Secretary of

:17:55.:17:58.

State pointed out, it was Tony Blair's mantra that his top priority

:17:59.:18:04.

for education, education, education. These tests have been picked right

:18:05.:18:08.

dog's dinner. They have been a shambles. I know this myself from

:18:09.:18:13.

numerous examples that I have come across in my inbox. People are

:18:14.:18:18.

cornering me when I am going to a fun event at the weekend. It is

:18:19.:18:23.

surely the responsibility of the government to make sure these are

:18:24.:18:30.

marked properly. Again, I will give way. I appreciate the constructive

:18:31.:18:37.

way she raises the concerns of constituent. If she wants to read to

:18:38.:18:41.

me or the minister we followed that up with the standards and testing

:18:42.:18:45.

agency. I should say that the review of the marking, comment should be

:18:46.:18:50.

submitted by the 15th of July, so she might like to encourage a

:18:51.:18:54.

constituent to send those thoughts but I hope she will contact us and

:18:55.:19:00.

let us know because the whole point of this system is getting feedback

:19:01.:19:08.

I did a lot of assemblies in my constituency is, and the London

:19:09.:19:16.

Borough of Ealing is a leafy, suburban borough and it was a

:19:17.:19:21.

Conservative seat as recently as May 2015 and the other thing that comes

:19:22.:19:27.

up, while I'm opposite the Secretary of State in this place, is the

:19:28.:19:31.

tension rate of teachers in a borough like Ealing. Head teachers

:19:32.:19:37.

say to me that they can very easily get young trainees in in their 20s

:19:38.:19:41.

but once the people want to put down roots and settle, they are off to

:19:42.:19:46.

Slough, Milton Keynes, where ever around the M25 which is the nearest

:19:47.:19:50.

affordable place to live. People have raised with me, and I know this

:19:51.:19:53.

is getting slightly off the subject, but could we have a thing like tied

:19:54.:19:59.

housing which they have on some university campuses because that

:20:00.:20:02.

would make it more attractive. Some heads say they have lost people to

:20:03.:20:06.

schools where they do have something like that, caretakers house where

:20:07.:20:13.

they house people. The point was made opposite that this was just an

:20:14.:20:16.

NU Tebar diatribe and that's why I wanted to raise -- NU T diatribe and

:20:17.:20:24.

that's why wanted to raise it, and if you are at losing the goodwill of

:20:25.:20:32.

people who naturally would be small seed Conservative, I think it has

:20:33.:20:36.

problems. This constituent of mine said that education is in crisis,

:20:37.:20:41.

and crisis gets much overused but she was really in despair and shock

:20:42.:20:47.

and anger when she told me this. The Secretary of State and I have both

:20:48.:20:53.

been guinea pigs. 1998, the first year of GCSEs, and I understand

:20:54.:20:56.

there will be teething troubles in any system, but people have begged

:20:57.:21:04.

them not to introduce these changes so rapidly, and we are where we are

:21:05.:21:11.

now, and I know that the NUT has been a dirty word in this debate,

:21:12.:21:18.

but Kevin Connelly called the Key stage two Sats rushed and

:21:19.:21:25.

inappropriate. We have seen poor marking from my own example, and

:21:26.:21:31.

this kind of tinkering has led to chaos and confusion. It does feel

:21:32.:21:37.

like the kids are guinea pigs and schools should not be examined

:21:38.:21:42.

factories. Again the Times educational supplement this Friday,

:21:43.:21:46.

headteacher called Brian Walton who is ahead of a school in Somerset, he

:21:47.:21:55.

argues that we have we have a results illusion that so much rides

:21:56.:21:59.

on Sats that a lot of education is lost in statistical positioning and

:22:00.:22:03.

we are being seduced by the numbers and not recognising the child who

:22:04.:22:08.

they are. Again, I think there are some studies that show one in ten

:22:09.:22:12.

teachers have left the profession as a result of falling morale. The

:22:13.:22:17.

housing thing is so intrinsically linked in an area like West London

:22:18.:22:21.

because something has to be done. The worry is, if Ealing is a borough

:22:22.:22:25.

where teachers cannot afford to live, there will be a hollowing out

:22:26.:22:29.

of the capital, which is obviously wrong. This was an intervention and

:22:30.:22:35.

I've managed to spin it out into a speech. It was meant to be quick.

:22:36.:22:44.

Frustration on this side would be that the G1 to have tests but you

:22:45.:22:48.

talk about the tensions it can cause. , what kind of test is it

:22:49.:22:56.

there would be wanted. The honourable gentleman to the Liberal

:22:57.:22:59.

Democrats Lee suggested that a grammar test might be over the top,

:23:00.:23:02.

but what is it that is wrong about these tests that should be put right

:23:03.:23:06.

for next year? Any suggestion would be helpful.

:23:07.:23:08.

I don't know if the honourable gentleman was listening to the

:23:09.:23:14.

anecdote I read out from the deputy head, but it seems that this time

:23:15.:23:17.

round the curriculum has not been properly in place and the marking is

:23:18.:23:21.

all over the place, so it is not the testing that is wrong, it is the

:23:22.:23:26.

maladministration of the key stage two Sats. I noticed in the recent

:23:27.:23:36.

Brexit debate that the Lord Chancellor said we had had enough of

:23:37.:23:40.

experts and I think that this is a real mistake. These are the people

:23:41.:23:49.

at the chalk face. So headteachers and people in the NUT, have been

:23:50.:23:54.

warning about this and I hope that these problems can be rectified and

:23:55.:23:58.

we can hear from the Secretary of State about what will be done to

:23:59.:24:04.

minimise next year's disturbances so there are no disturbances because

:24:05.:24:06.

otherwise it feels like we are losing sight of the child.

:24:07.:24:13.

It is a great pleasure to follow the honourable lady for Ealing Central

:24:14.:24:20.

and Acton, constituency where I resided for many years and my eldest

:24:21.:24:24.

daughter went to preschool there before I escape to the countryside

:24:25.:24:28.

in East Sussex. I share the sentiment expressed in the first

:24:29.:24:32.

sentence of the motion that every child deserves an excellent

:24:33.:24:34.

education that enables them to grow and thrive, and in order to deliver

:24:35.:24:39.

the aspiration it's important children are assessed to enable

:24:40.:24:44.

parents and teachers to determine whether the education received is

:24:45.:24:48.

meeting the desired outcome. I therefore welcome the testing at

:24:49.:24:51.

both key stage one and Key stage two, and the latter is of important

:24:52.:24:57.

-- of importance because it will inform parents and secondary schools

:24:58.:25:00.

of development reached and progress required. The former is of

:25:01.:25:04.

importance for both the child and school in order to assess how

:25:05.:25:07.

progress is developed over the intervening four years between each

:25:08.:25:13.

test. As I somewhat declared my interest, having failed my own 12

:25:14.:25:17.

plus exam and attended a secondary school which by its definition was

:25:18.:25:21.

for those of us who had similarly failed, I'm disappointed that the

:25:22.:25:26.

motion references that children will be labelled as failures. Instead,

:25:27.:25:31.

these tests should be used as a method by which to benchmark

:25:32.:25:34.

progress, not talk about failure. The motion focuses on the fact that

:25:35.:25:39.

only 53% of children have reached the standard in all three papers.

:25:40.:25:45.

When broken down, the Department for Education statistics showed that 66%

:25:46.:25:50.

met the standard in Reading, 70% in maths and 72% in grammar. The motion

:25:51.:25:57.

is correct in that the rates of 2016 compared to 2015 have reduced. But

:25:58.:26:02.

the very aspect of the comparison is wholly misleading because the tests

:26:03.:26:07.

have been changed and made more difficult. It's therefore

:26:08.:26:10.

unsurprising that we have a grade deflation. What we now have is a

:26:11.:26:15.

rigorous regime which will help drive up progress and standards and

:26:16.:26:20.

help give every child and excellent education which enables them to grow

:26:21.:26:24.

and thrive. Children are not going to thrive if the tests are set at a

:26:25.:26:28.

level which do not stretch them and inspire them to do better. We should

:26:29.:26:34.

not be alarmed by this benchmark, we should embrace it and do all that we

:26:35.:26:37.

can to help our children reach their potential. Rather than turn back to

:26:38.:26:42.

previous methods we need to give the new regime a chance to bed in. We

:26:43.:26:47.

also need to give teachers more time and space to listen to children. In

:26:48.:26:51.

that vein, can I make some positive suggestions that I hope the

:26:52.:26:54.

department can take on board? Firstly, it must be the case that

:26:55.:26:58.

teachers have had to spend extra time getting to grips with the new

:26:59.:27:03.

tests and curriculum. Can we therefore give teachers sometime

:27:04.:27:07.

back so they can focus on inspiring and teaching our children? Too many

:27:08.:27:12.

teachers, as the member South Cambridgeshire mentioned, are

:27:13.:27:14.

working long hours and we need to help them. Secondly, I embrace the

:27:15.:27:18.

need for all children to master English and maths so they have the

:27:19.:27:23.

basics aged 11 but there is more to learning than these two subjects.

:27:24.:27:26.

Last weekend I spent another morning with my seven-year-old and

:27:27.:27:31.

ten-year-old. One had maths homework on the other had English. Can we

:27:32.:27:36.

have time for science, art, history, geography and other subjects or at

:27:37.:27:40.

least ask our teachers to use them as the basis for maths and English.

:27:41.:27:45.

Thirdly, comparing our children to those of other nations who they will

:27:46.:27:49.

be completing with in the global jobs race is helpful. But can we not

:27:50.:27:56.

be as obsessed by it? Not all of our children will master maths as well

:27:57.:28:00.

as a child in India or Singapore. However, if we teach our children to

:28:01.:28:05.

be leaders, to be creative, to think outside the box and inspire they

:28:06.:28:08.

will probably end up managing a maths genius from India without the

:28:09.:28:13.

need to be one themselves. Madame Deputy Speaker, I agree that a

:28:14.:28:16.

rigorous education assessment underpins the desire on these

:28:17.:28:19.

benches to give better life chances to everyone. As we see in public

:28:20.:28:23.

life, there are numerous examples of children enjoying a successful

:28:24.:28:29.

education as a result of having the support and drive of parents and

:28:30.:28:34.

maybe a private education. However there are not enough examples of

:28:35.:28:37.

those who have enjoyed a difficult start and may have grown up in

:28:38.:28:41.

deprived communities where the parental emphasis is lacking. And

:28:42.:28:45.

where there has been no one to support or inspire them outside the

:28:46.:28:50.

school gates. For these children, their schooling offers them the only

:28:51.:28:54.

route to a better place. This can make a difference to their health,

:28:55.:28:57.

well-being and ultimately their life expectancy. I would urge this house

:28:58.:29:04.

to embrace the need to assess our children, as the government is

:29:05.:29:07.

doing, so that every child can reach their true potential.

:29:08.:29:14.

Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I make a brief intervention and make

:29:15.:29:20.

a couple of comments which hopefully the minister will be able to address

:29:21.:29:26.

when he winds up? I very much agree with the honourable member for South

:29:27.:29:30.

Cambridgeshire which is one of the reasons I wanted to attend the

:29:31.:29:33.

debate. I'm sure the Secretary of State would agree with this,

:29:34.:29:36.

whatever the rights and wrongs of the way the current Sats have been

:29:37.:29:40.

administered, there can be no doubt that for many of our schools, and

:29:41.:29:45.

outstanding schools, and headteachers, dedicated teachers,

:29:46.:29:50.

the harsh reality of the way in which the results have been

:29:51.:29:53.

presented where some have seen a huge drop in the standards to which

:29:54.:29:58.

their schools have attained has been a huge shock to them. I think the

:29:59.:30:04.

secretary of state, in my view, would have done well to address that

:30:05.:30:10.

in the remarks she made. I'm sure all of us have outstanding schools

:30:11.:30:13.

in our constituencies, and to see some of them, for reasons they found

:30:14.:30:19.

difficult to understand, see their results almost collapse in some

:30:20.:30:25.

instances does not help them and is not help the Secretary of State in

:30:26.:30:28.

her desire to raise standards and does not help all of us, because in

:30:29.:30:34.

the end it is the partnership between government, parents and

:30:35.:30:37.

schools that deliver the standards we all want. Thank you for giving

:30:38.:30:46.

way. The other point I just wondered, what you thought about,

:30:47.:30:50.

where schools have done better than they expected, perhaps because they

:30:51.:30:54.

have been teaching very closely to get the children through it and

:30:55.:30:59.

ignoring the Brett mentioned. Does he think there might be an element

:31:00.:31:03.

of that as well? There has always been a danger of that, that you

:31:04.:31:08.

teach to the test. But one thing Ofsted has done is actually the

:31:09.:31:16.

guidance is to look to see what the breadth of the curriculum is and the

:31:17.:31:21.

sorts of empresses they give to subject outside of those that are

:31:22.:31:27.

specifically designed for the Sats. So the good schools that we go to

:31:28.:31:32.

ANSI have drama, history, sports and all the other things -- that we go

:31:33.:31:38.

to and see. In my view, the schools that often do best at tests often do

:31:39.:31:45.

best with young people who are from some of the most disadvantaged

:31:46.:31:47.

backgrounds, and they are the ones that have the breadth of curriculum

:31:48.:31:51.

and do drama and other things as well because it gives them the

:31:52.:31:56.

self-esteem and confidence to do something that is more academic and

:31:57.:32:04.

it gives them the self-esteem and confidence to do that. Just to say

:32:05.:32:08.

to the Minister, he needs to address in his wind up what he will do to

:32:09.:32:12.

restore confidence for some of our leaders. I know in our own

:32:13.:32:16.

constituency, whatever the rights and wrongs, and it's not to make a

:32:17.:32:19.

point, I say it is a statement of fact. Some people have been

:32:20.:32:24.

absolutely distraught at the consequence of the results that they

:32:25.:32:29.

have been given, and that cannot be right. Even schools regarded as

:32:30.:32:34.

outstanding, headteachers have been crying. This cannot be what we want.

:32:35.:32:44.

Let's reflect on all of that. What I also wanted to say to the Minister

:32:45.:32:52.

is, whatever the rights and wrongs, 53% met the target expected. We

:32:53.:32:58.

don't want to use the failure full -- word. 47% didn't meet the target

:32:59.:33:02.

the government said. Is there something in the three components

:33:03.:33:07.

that is of particular concern? Is there one area weaker than other,

:33:08.:33:13.

the maths part? Something we need to do with respect to that? What is the

:33:14.:33:18.

government going to do am working with all sides of the house and

:33:19.:33:22.

unions to actually do something to ensure that a 47%, we tackle that do

:33:23.:33:30.

something it. I'm grateful to him for giving way and I think he makes

:33:31.:33:33.

an important point about partnerships. I think where the tone

:33:34.:33:37.

of the debate has gone wrong today is that we have had Tory bad, Labour

:33:38.:33:45.

good, Labour good, Tory bad. Unions right, government wrong. Donna

:33:46.:33:51.

Wright, unions wrong. Actually -- government right. Actually, we owe

:33:52.:33:56.

it to the teachers to work in partnership because we want to see

:33:57.:33:59.

our children succeed and we all want to see better standards and we all

:34:00.:34:05.

want to see the United Kingdom improved in terms of the global

:34:06.:34:07.

league tables as well. I agree very much, I think standards

:34:08.:34:16.

in the last couple of decades have risen, but the point is we want them

:34:17.:34:22.

to rise faster and quicker, and there is too much inequality and too

:34:23.:34:26.

much where social background determines educational attainment.

:34:27.:34:32.

The question for everyone is to not blaming, it is to say, what is

:34:33.:34:35.

preventing this country from overcoming solutions? What has

:34:36.:34:40.

bedevilled the education system for decades. I don't think anyone says

:34:41.:34:45.

they want to continue that, but the question is, how do we best meet it?

:34:46.:34:51.

Can I ask a few other points? First of all, what will he do to improve

:34:52.:34:57.

the security of the tests given the fact that the embarrassment, and I'm

:34:58.:34:59.

not trying... The embarrassment where tests were leaked and had to

:35:00.:35:07.

be abandoned beforehand, what has happened and is going to happen in

:35:08.:35:10.

the future about that? What is happening about the criticism made,

:35:11.:35:17.

that the new tests are actually about the new curriculum, which was

:35:18.:35:22.

introduced in 2014 and we are now testing it in 2016, two years for a

:35:23.:35:29.

four year course. Is there any way in which that is taken into account?

:35:30.:35:34.

What have you said to schools? Does that mean anything for the testing

:35:35.:35:40.

next year? This is what we want to hear, and it would be ridiculous to

:35:41.:35:47.

pretend that the stats have been an unmitigated success, they haven't,

:35:48.:35:50.

there've been real bobbins, but what this house would like to hear is

:35:51.:35:55.

what the government is going to do about it, how are they going to

:35:56.:35:58.

improve it, and that is what the parents and schools and all the us

:35:59.:36:05.

want to hear. The last point I want to make, what do these key stage

:36:06.:36:14.

results mean for the Ofsted characterisation of these schools?

:36:15.:36:19.

Does it mean when they go in in September, if I'm a school which has

:36:20.:36:23.

seen a collapse in my results, what does that mean? What are Ofsted

:36:24.:36:30.

going to do? I don't know, that is why I'm asking. That is why I'm

:36:31.:36:35.

asking, because people want clarity about that. What does it mean for a

:36:36.:36:42.

school with respect to its Ofsted characterisation with respect of

:36:43.:36:47.

these results? If the government says this is the standard we expect,

:36:48.:36:52.

and large numbers are below that, including in schools which are

:36:53.:36:55.

characterised as outstanding, what does that mean when the inspectors

:36:56.:37:01.

go in? Does it mean the school is cast out of the community? Maybe

:37:02.:37:07.

not, and that is what schools what. The minister will respond to that

:37:08.:37:11.

and reassure people. What I'm trying to do, is to say there have been

:37:12.:37:18.

very real problems with respect to this and everyone in the house

:37:19.:37:21.

agrees that we need to improve standards, and we know we are never

:37:22.:37:26.

going to reach a point where everyone is satisfied, because

:37:27.:37:29.

everyone will want more. What are we going to do with respect to the

:37:30.:37:32.

problems which have occurred and how is the particular test we have

:37:33.:37:37.

introduced going to allow us to build on that progress? What are we

:37:38.:37:42.

doing to reassure schools and what are we doing with respect to

:37:43.:37:46.

headteachers and teachers and parents? To reassure them. And what

:37:47.:37:51.

is the difference next year to prevent what has happened this year

:37:52.:37:59.

from taking place again? That is why I was trying to intervene on the

:38:00.:38:02.

sectarian state, I was not trying to say, Tories wicked, Labour which can

:38:03.:38:08.

I just wanted to ask -- secretary of state. There are very real questions

:38:09.:38:15.

which we want the answers, and I would be grateful if the Minister

:38:16.:38:20.

answers some of those questions and maybe other points.

:38:21.:38:28.

It is a great pleasure to speak in this debate, first of all to comment

:38:29.:38:36.

on the contributions from backbenchers which have been

:38:37.:38:41.

uniformly thoughtful and interesting and if I begin with the intervention

:38:42.:38:47.

of my honourable friend four Reddish who challenge the Secretary of State

:38:48.:38:49.

on the issue of secondary improvement. On that point, although

:38:50.:38:56.

this is not a debate about secondary improvements, they would be assisted

:38:57.:38:59.

if these schools did not have to worry about how they are going to

:39:00.:39:08.

play catch up. The honourable member for Southport in a thoughtful speech

:39:09.:39:13.

was rightfully caustic about some of the Newspeak from the Secretary of

:39:14.:39:20.

State on Sats, and saying it is a big mess, the quote from the

:39:21.:39:24.

headteacher, that is worth bearing in mind. A survey of 97% of primary

:39:25.:39:32.

teachers showed concern that schools were preparing pupils for the tests

:39:33.:39:36.

at the expense of the wider curriculum about which other members

:39:37.:39:42.

have spoken today. The member also spoke about a sense of common

:39:43.:39:48.

enterprise and I think that and the other contributions we have had have

:39:49.:39:51.

pointed to the fact that we need a sense of common enterprise and also

:39:52.:39:57.

evidence driven policy. The honourable member, the former chair

:39:58.:40:02.

the select committee, used the interesting word volatility for the

:40:03.:40:07.

description of what has happened this year, that is not a great

:40:08.:40:11.

phrase from someone who has chaired the select committee for five years.

:40:12.:40:15.

You might have had different phrases for the fiascoes we have had from

:40:16.:40:26.

this year's Sats. Surely the whole Robben with this debate is the

:40:27.:40:30.

inspectors were not there in time for them to row back -- the whole

:40:31.:40:36.

problem with this debate. The MP for South Cambridgeshire sparked a chord

:40:37.:40:41.

with many members by talking about the way in which we need to keep our

:40:42.:40:48.

teachers with us. My friend, the MP for Ealing Acton, regaled us with

:40:49.:40:57.

tales, but the truth of the matter is, the most enlightening thing she

:40:58.:41:04.

said, apart from that, it was to relay what her headteacher said. I

:41:05.:41:09.

thought maybe it should be what Katie did and what Katie did next.

:41:10.:41:16.

On that. The Secretary of State has been gracious and told her what she

:41:17.:41:21.

needs to do next, to get that in before July the 15th. There again,

:41:22.:41:26.

it raises the issue of people having legitimate concerns about things,

:41:27.:41:35.

not concerns about anti-testing, the member for Bexhill said the tests

:41:36.:41:39.

should not be set at a low benchmark and I don't think anyone in this

:41:40.:41:43.

house would dispute that. He said there needs to be more time for

:41:44.:41:51.

learning apart from just English and maths, and maybe we can welcome him

:41:52.:41:56.

as an additional recruit to those of us who talk to the Minister last

:41:57.:42:01.

week about the need to widen some of the issues. The member for Gedling

:42:02.:42:09.

has expressed concerns, quite rightly, that some of the

:42:10.:42:13.

outstanding schools in his constituency have had bizarrely low

:42:14.:42:18.

results and he talks rightly about security of the tests and asks what

:42:19.:42:21.

the government is going to do about that. I hope when the minister comes

:42:22.:42:26.

to respond that those are issues that he will take on board. My

:42:27.:42:31.

colleague but the shadow Secretary of State, got an unfair blistering

:42:32.:42:37.

from the Secretary of State herself, because what the shadow Secretary of

:42:38.:42:44.

State, what they did was to paint a stark picture of the strengths and

:42:45.:42:49.

other skills of the young people who have taken these tests this year,

:42:50.:42:54.

and with this being cast aside or ignored, because they have been the

:42:55.:42:58.

guinea pigs and the victims of the Department shambles this year. Yes,

:42:59.:43:04.

she showed passion, she needed to, because the pupils who took those

:43:05.:43:09.

tests have been badly let down. Why had they been badly let down?

:43:10.:43:14.

Because the department's resources and the Minister's focus was

:43:15.:43:18.

obsessively trained on their nationalisation process, as my

:43:19.:43:23.

colleague the member for Scunthorpe said when the statement was made on

:43:24.:43:27.

this and others said they have taken their eye off the ball. It is tens

:43:28.:43:34.

of thousands of children who have suffered, for what? A humiliating

:43:35.:43:41.

climb-down on the subject of academies, and that means the

:43:42.:43:45.

Minister, the Secretary of State will have to swerve and dodge in the

:43:46.:43:51.

Academy built which might or might not come this autumn. The process

:43:52.:43:57.

cannot be divorced from outcome in this instance and the general

:43:58.:44:03.

secretary of the NU HD was right to say that the government has made

:44:04.:44:06.

serious mistakes in panning and implementation of the tests this

:44:07.:44:14.

year, -- planning. The Minister for schools said in this house on the

:44:15.:44:20.

10th of May that Pearson UK were investigating the issue of the

:44:21.:44:24.

uploading of the key stage test onto a website and committed to it

:44:25.:44:30.

quickly. I do not recall whether we have had a explanation of that from

:44:31.:44:34.

the Minister and I ask him to give us one now, and will he also, and I

:44:35.:44:43.

echo my colleague, will he also tell us what steps he has put in place to

:44:44.:44:46.

lessen the possibility of this happening again? The Secretary of

:44:47.:44:51.

State wanted to cloud over her failures by saying that this was a

:44:52.:45:03.

plot driven by the NU hate to -- NU tea, but perhaps she can look at the

:45:04.:45:07.

statement from the National Governors Association, they actually

:45:08.:45:11.

said that schools did not need to draw conclusions from the Sats

:45:12.:45:16.

because it provides no intelligence on the rate of improvement of

:45:17.:45:20.

teaching and learning and they went on to say that many will be feeling

:45:21.:45:27.

demoralised, pupils, teachers and parents, all involved in schools,

:45:28.:45:30.

should be proud of the work they have put in to implement the new

:45:31.:45:36.

curriculum in what has been a very short timetable. It simply isn't

:45:37.:45:47.

good enough, for the Secretary of State to be complacent on this

:45:48.:45:51.

matter, the government's complacency has already been commented on by the

:45:52.:45:55.

Public Accounts Committee which does not seem to have affected the

:45:56.:46:00.

Secretary of State's ability to put a Pangalos on the issue. She said in

:46:01.:46:05.

a first response that the results had been a good start, but Anne

:46:06.:46:15.

Watson, the Americas Professor -- emeritus professor said no

:46:16.:46:21.

comparative judgments can be made as of the way performance is judged and

:46:22.:46:25.

that means we do not know from this data if the government has done a

:46:26.:46:29.

good job or a bad job and whether the test designers have done a good

:46:30.:46:35.

job or a bad job. These results after all mean that according to

:46:36.:46:40.

this government 47% of children in this country are not ready for

:46:41.:46:44.

secondary school, how do you tell children and their parents that?

:46:45.:46:52.

Both the Secretary of State today and on another occasion the

:46:53.:46:54.

Minister, have talked about the fact that students and pupils do not mind

:46:55.:47:01.

or enjoy taking these tests and there was a poll which gave them

:47:02.:47:04.

some comfort in that respect, but what I would say, they might not

:47:05.:47:15.

mind taking the test, but to have the test taken out of context which

:47:16.:47:18.

has left teachers frustrated that they are not being able to engage

:47:19.:47:23.

them at an early enough stage, that they mind and they mind that with

:47:24.:47:28.

absolute justification. The member for Scunthorpe, responding on the

:47:29.:47:37.

issue of this statement, made this point, and this is key, I think,

:47:38.:47:44.

what he said, "I'm rushing ahead with this policy without properly

:47:45.:47:48.

involving professionals or parents, and the government has failed to

:47:49.:47:50.

spot the fundamental flaw in the design which was that the test they

:47:51.:47:55.

had developed was insufficiently parable, and as a result they were

:47:56.:48:00.

forced to abandon the approach -- come parable. " He went on to say

:48:01.:48:10.

that it had been chopped and changed by this government, and that they

:48:11.:48:18.

had been updated at least once every other working day, and that is not

:48:19.:48:25.

something we can regard as good now. I want to ask the Secretary of State

:48:26.:48:31.

about the floor standard, I think she said that the announcement on

:48:32.:48:36.

the floor standard would be made in September, and yet her department

:48:37.:48:42.

told schools on the day of the announcement that they would not be

:48:43.:48:46.

announced until December. Whether it is September or December the

:48:47.:48:56.

Secretary of State can clarify that, but what an indictment that schools

:48:57.:49:00.

should have to have this sort of Damocles over their head, whether

:49:01.:49:10.

that is four months or six months. At the end of the day, this comes

:49:11.:49:17.

down to what happens in individual members constituencies and the

:49:18.:49:20.

responses they get back, and in my own area in Lancashire the spokesman

:49:21.:49:27.

for the national association of head teachers says that with 94% of

:49:28.:49:33.

Lancashire schools judged good or outstanding by Ofsted, there is

:49:34.:49:38.

something wrong in an assessment process where you need to support

:49:39.:49:41.

children or staff and carry out what is effectively damage limitation.

:49:42.:49:48.

Last Friday I visited one of my primary schools in Blackpool where

:49:49.:49:53.

the head and others are doing extremely good work and I observed a

:49:54.:49:59.

session with the excellent literacy tutor there, but when I spoke

:50:00.:50:05.

afterwards to the head, he had a huge sense of frustration that they

:50:06.:50:12.

had not been able to structure preparation for the exam because of

:50:13.:50:15.

the continuous chopping and changing to which I have referred to which my

:50:16.:50:19.

honourable friend, the member for Scunthorpe referred on that

:50:20.:50:24.

occasion. And he said I fear it will put more pressure on the testing in

:50:25.:50:32.

the first year of those students and they will not regard these tests as

:50:33.:50:39.

useful that will deflated students and pressured parents. Those are my

:50:40.:50:49.

observations not his. The years between nine and 11 are almost as

:50:50.:50:55.

crucial a time for young people as the time for the transfer to

:50:56.:50:58.

secondary school. I am old enough and I suspect others here might be

:50:59.:51:05.

old enough to remember nine plus. I did the nine plus and I remember it

:51:06.:51:10.

was a testing time. So it is not simply good enough for the Minister

:51:11.:51:18.

and secretary of state to draw a veil over these results by setting

:51:19.:51:25.

up straw people and saying that those criticising Mr side are not

:51:26.:51:30.

interested in testing and standards. We are interested in both but we are

:51:31.:51:36.

interested incompetence and in delivering them and the government

:51:37.:51:42.

has not shown competence. This has been a good debate if short about

:51:43.:51:49.

how we ensure children leave primary school fluent in the basic building

:51:50.:51:56.

blocks of education. Over the last six years government has been

:51:57.:51:58.

determined to ensure the education system is properly equipping people

:51:59.:52:03.

with the knowledge and skills they have been here before. And to be

:52:04.:52:09.

able to compete in an increasingly global jobs market. And the

:52:10.:52:15.

remarkable leadership of the Prime Minister, my right honourable friend

:52:16.:52:19.

as member for Surrey Heath and Loughborough, have introduced the

:52:20.:52:22.

most far-reaching education reforms for generations. Reforms are

:52:23.:52:30.

working. Of course, it would be easy not to have engaged with the reforms

:52:31.:52:34.

and allowed the continued inflation of results and the year-on-year

:52:35.:52:39.

increases in GCSE increases masking the decline in standards compared to

:52:40.:52:42.

the most successful education systems in the world. It would have

:52:43.:52:47.

been easier not to have taken on the vested interests and easier not to

:52:48.:52:53.

have embarked on raising the bar. Easier not to have demanded phonics,

:52:54.:52:58.

not to have looked better ways of teaching maths, easier not to

:52:59.:53:02.

challenge the publishers and demand better textbooks and easier not to

:53:03.:53:07.

insist on pupils core academic subjects. Easier not to increase

:53:08.:53:12.

people taking foreign-language is, easier not to encourage more take-up

:53:13.:53:17.

of maths and physics at A-level. But we were determined to hold the

:53:18.:53:23.

British decline in the international league tables which showed the UK

:53:24.:53:26.

falling from seventh in Reading in the year 2000 down to 25th by 2009

:53:27.:53:34.

and from eighth down to 28. And we fell further still in 2012 survey.

:53:35.:53:39.

We appointed a panel of experts who examined the curricula of the

:53:40.:53:43.

countries which topped the rankings and produced a new primary national

:53:44.:53:48.

curriculum which we consulted on in 2012, finalised in 2013 and that

:53:49.:53:55.

came into force in 2014 with a new sat test taken in 2016. The new

:53:56.:54:01.

curriculum requires fluency in Reading, phonics in the early

:54:02.:54:05.

primary school followed by a focus on eight habit of reading. Spelling

:54:06.:54:10.

and handwriting techniques, grammar and punctuation, neglected for

:54:11.:54:17.

decades have been wrought onto the curriculum. We looked at the

:54:18.:54:23.

Singapore maths curriculum ensuring fluency and calculation technique,

:54:24.:54:26.

long multiplication, long division and fractions. We've reduced the age

:54:27.:54:31.

by which all children's should know their timetables from 11 down to

:54:32.:54:36.

nine and this year we pioneered a computerised tables test. I visited

:54:37.:54:39.

schools up and down the country and I saw more and more pupils fluent in

:54:40.:54:45.

their times tables, not so six years ago. The academic year 2015 would

:54:46.:54:49.

always be a challenge with the new maths and English GCSE is being

:54:50.:54:54.

introduced for first teaching from September 20 15. The new revised

:54:55.:54:58.

GCSEs are on a par with the qualifications taught used in the

:54:59.:55:04.

best performing countries in the world. That is what this is about,

:55:05.:55:08.

raising academic standards in schools, raising expectations and

:55:09.:55:12.

raising aspirations, and it is working. The focus on phonics has

:55:13.:55:16.

raised reading standards. In 2011 when we tried the new short test for

:55:17.:55:21.

six roles to ensure that they were mastering the basic skill of reading

:55:22.:55:27.

simple words, just 32% passed. In 2012, 50 8% past, rising to 69% in

:55:28.:55:35.

2013, two 74% in 2013 and 77% last year. That means 120,000 more sexual

:55:36.:55:41.

roles today are reading more effectively than they otherwise had

:55:42.:55:49.

would -- more six-year-olds. The new phonics tests are designed to resist

:55:50.:55:52.

teaching to the test. As my honourable friend in South

:55:53.:55:57.

Cambridgeshire hinted said the wait for pupils to do well is to have

:55:58.:56:01.

read during a lodger in their time at primary school. There have been

:56:02.:56:07.

more challenging books -- read during a longer time. That is why at

:56:08.:56:12.

Peckham Park primary School, I am told 88% reached the expected

:56:13.:56:17.

standard in the new reading tests. At Elmhurst primary School, 88%

:56:18.:56:21.

reached the expected standard in reading. The new maths Sats are made

:56:22.:56:29.

up of a maths reasoning and mass test. It is not just about being

:56:30.:56:33.

fluent in mathematical calculation but they have a deep conceptual

:56:34.:56:36.

understanding that comes from practice and good teaching. That is

:56:37.:56:43.

why, at Elmhurst primary School, 94% of pupils achieved at least that

:56:44.:56:47.

expected standard. And in Carshalton, 96% at one school

:56:48.:56:54.

reached the expected standard. The honourable gentleman, the member for

:56:55.:56:58.

South board, read a letter from an experienced head teacher in his

:56:59.:57:02.

constituency to his pupils -- Southport. But the tests are

:57:03.:57:07.

designed to hold schools to account, not pupils. We know we are asking

:57:08.:57:10.

more but we are doing that because we are committed to giving young

:57:11.:57:14.

people the best start in life. This year's results are the first to be

:57:15.:57:18.

released following the introduction of a more rigorous national

:57:19.:57:21.

curriculum on a par with the best in the world. They showed there was no

:57:22.:57:28.

limit to our children's potential and that schools can rise to the

:57:29.:57:30.

challenge of ensuring pupils meet the new higher standards. As my

:57:31.:57:34.

honourable friend points out, neither schools more parents should

:57:35.:57:37.

try to compare this year 's results with previous. They simply cannot be

:57:38.:57:42.

compared directly. We publish data to show the national averages for

:57:43.:57:46.

the number of pupils meeting the new expected standard which allows

:57:47.:57:50.

schools to see how their pupils have performed against the national

:57:51.:57:54.

average. This is a much more useful comparison ban for schools and

:57:55.:57:57.

parents. We also raised the challenge of the new grammar test,

:57:58.:58:02.

and the national curriculum tests we sat this may take over three years

:58:03.:58:06.

to develop, and during the process that they go through three rounds of

:58:07.:58:11.

expert reviews which includes teachers, curriculum experts,

:58:12.:58:15.

disability experts, inclusion experts and cultural experts. The

:58:16.:58:19.

questions are also trialled twice with pupils at the appropriate age.

:58:20.:58:24.

One is to check that the questions function as required and children

:58:25.:58:28.

are giving appropriate answers, and also to determine the difficulty of

:58:29.:58:31.

the questions. Questions are improved throughout the process. My

:58:32.:58:36.

honourable friend, the member for Beverley, asked the relevant

:58:37.:58:46.

question, are we as a country doing a good enough job in educating our

:58:47.:58:48.

young people? Too many children, he points out, not given enough

:58:49.:58:51.

knowledge and skills to flourish in secondary school. He is right to

:58:52.:58:53.

point out there are always new challenges when you tests are

:58:54.:58:56.

introduced, but as they bed down and teachers become more familiar with

:58:57.:59:00.

the curriculum. But the honourable member for Ealing Central and Acton

:59:01.:59:06.

cited the head teacher at an outstanding school in her

:59:07.:59:10.

constituency being worried about the standards. The secretary of State

:59:11.:59:13.

has made it clear that given the greater challenge of the new Sats,

:59:14.:59:17.

the number of schools regarded as below the floor will not be greater

:59:18.:59:21.

than one percentage point more than last year. And the publishing

:59:22.:59:27.

provisional progress figures, early in September, to answer the

:59:28.:59:31.

question, so schools will know if they are below the floor. The

:59:32.:59:34.

December figure is the finalised figure after adjustments for error.

:59:35.:59:40.

My honourable friend pointed out that there is more to education than

:59:41.:59:46.

English and maths and we need more time in primary school for science,

:59:47.:59:50.

art, history and geography. I totally agree. A knowledge rich

:59:51.:59:54.

curriculum is key, and this is what the best primary schools in the

:59:55.:59:58.

country deliver. The honourable gentleman said he had seen too many

:59:59.:00:05.

schools that have seen a sharp drop in their results this year, and he

:00:06.:00:09.

is right. The results will focus the mind of those schools that are

:00:10.:00:13.

struggling to deliver the results and other schools in similar schools

:00:14.:00:18.

are delivering them, so we will help schools with that challenge. The

:00:19.:00:23.

stage one national funding formula consultation we are preparing says

:00:24.:00:30.

we are preparing to introduce the lower prior attainment factor which

:00:31.:00:34.

would provide extra support to help children catch up. The honourable

:00:35.:00:37.

gentleman also raised the issue of Ofsted and the impact that will have

:00:38.:00:43.

with more challenging assessments. I have acknowledge that point and I

:00:44.:00:49.

have written already to Sir Michael will sure to ask Ofsted to take into

:00:50.:00:54.

account that this is the first year of more challenging tests and a more

:00:55.:00:59.

challenging curriculum when inspectors examine schools. For me,

:01:00.:01:05.

this is one of the most fundamental points. What does take into account

:01:06.:01:10.

mean? Does it mean he reads it and then doesn't do anything about it? I

:01:11.:01:14.

appreciate the independents, I appreciate that, but it is a

:01:15.:01:18.

fundamental point. I have been where he is and taken things into account

:01:19.:01:23.

and looked into it but it is fundamental. School is absolutely

:01:24.:01:26.

want reassurance about this point that they will go from being

:01:27.:01:32.

outstanding to being schools that are regarded as at risk. If he could

:01:33.:01:36.

say more about that, that would be helpful. The experience so far is

:01:37.:01:40.

that inspectors are already taking my letter into account and they are

:01:41.:01:44.

adjusting their judgments and not looking at raw data in an

:01:45.:01:50.

unintelligent way. They are looking at it and reflecting the concerns

:01:51.:01:53.

raised in the letter. We have also introduced the progress measure and

:01:54.:01:58.

progress will be an important part of whether a school falls below the

:01:59.:02:06.

floor or not. He also asks about Pearson 's, and they are taking a

:02:07.:02:09.

number of steps. They have investigated the leak and art taking

:02:10.:02:14.

a number of steps to ensure that the road markers do not deliberately

:02:15.:02:22.

release marking schemes in the future and are tightening up

:02:23.:02:24.

contractual arrangements. As a result of the education reform

:02:25.:02:30.

programme, 66% of secondary schools and 90% of primary schools have

:02:31.:02:34.

academy status with the professional autonomy this brings. 1.45 million

:02:35.:02:39.

more pupils are in schools rated good or outstanding by Ofsted than

:02:40.:02:45.

in 2010. More pupils are taking and securing good grades in the core

:02:46.:02:49.

academic subjects at GCSE that employers and universities most

:02:50.:02:53.

valued. More pupils are studying foreign languages. More pupils are

:02:54.:02:57.

taking A-level maths, A-level physics and A-level chemistry. As a

:02:58.:03:02.

result of reforms, more children are reading fluently and reading

:03:03.:03:05.

fluently earlier. But I was saddened by the approach of the new Shadow

:03:06.:03:12.

Secretary of State took today. Yesterday, in the Westminster Hall

:03:13.:03:17.

debate on term time holidays, she supported our reforms to improve

:03:18.:03:21.

school attendance. Today, she is reverting back to the approach of

:03:22.:03:25.

her predecessor but one, the honourable member for Manchester

:03:26.:03:29.

Central, in opposing the rise in academic standards and the rising

:03:30.:03:34.

expectations that the new Sats reflect and assess. She, alas, is

:03:35.:03:40.

simply kowtowing to the NUT to take. This government, Mr Deputy is

:03:41.:03:44.

bigger, is about raising standards, raising expectations and delivering

:03:45.:03:49.

successful and effective reform, so I urge the house to reject Labour's

:03:50.:03:57.

motion -- Mr Deputy Speaker. As many of the opinion say I? To the

:03:58.:04:03.

contrary, no. Division excavation mark -- division! Clear the lobby.

:04:04.:04:38.

The question is on the order paper, will people say ten one. Or said

:04:39.:04:46.

noe. The ayes to the right, 178, the noes

:04:47.:16:22.

to the left, 278. The ayes to the right, 178, the noes to the left,

:16:23.:16:31.

278. The noes have it. We welcome to motion number three regarding income

:16:32.:16:37.

tax, the question is on the order paper. The ten one have it. We now

:16:38.:16:47.

come to motion number four -- the ayes have it. Division.

:16:48.:17:41.

The question is on the order paper. As many of that opinion say aye, and

:17:42.:17:52.

also say noe. The ayes to the right, 278, the noes

:17:53.:25:00.

to the left, 218. The ayes to the right, 278, the noes

:25:01.:27:33.

to the left, 218, so the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Unlock. Order,

:27:34.:27:43.

we now come to motion number three. No, not three or four, not moved, I

:27:44.:27:54.

believe. Five, not moved, on business of the house, not moved.

:27:55.:27:58.

Therefore we come to the presentation of public petitions.

:27:59.:28:05.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, I rise to present a petition relating to

:28:06.:28:09.

Doctor kilo and the medical practitioners Tribunal service. Over

:28:10.:28:15.

3000 petitioners believe he has suffered a miscarriage of justice

:28:16.:28:18.

and would like him reinstated as a practising medical doctor. Mr

:28:19.:28:23.

Speaker, with your position -- permission, the petition asks the

:28:24.:28:25.

Commons to take note of the damage done to the doctor 's life and

:28:26.:28:29.

career by what is believed to be a flawed disciplinary process and urge

:28:30.:28:34.

the house to re-examine the statutory basis for the jurisdiction

:28:35.:28:37.

of the end PTS with a view to remedying this and future injustices

:28:38.:28:42.

and urging the government to open an investigation into the written

:28:43.:28:45.

statements from the Iraqi witnesses as presented by public interest

:28:46.:28:50.

lawyers, gathered evidence under cross-examination in the enquiry,

:28:51.:28:55.

the original British Army court martial and the public enquiry and

:28:56.:29:00.

the Doctor's fitness to practice hearing.

:29:01.:29:14.

Petition, the doctor of the medical practitioners tribunal service.

:29:15.:29:22.

Order. We come to the adjournment. Do we look to move? We look to move

:29:23.:29:27.

that the house adjourns. The question is that the house to now

:29:28.:29:33.

adjourn. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am pleased to have secured this debate

:29:34.:29:37.

in the week before the start of the summer recess. Whilst the government

:29:38.:29:43.

are carrying out a review of supported housing, it's important to

:29:44.:29:46.

obtain a progress report from the Minister as to how the review is

:29:47.:29:51.

going and also to reemphasise the vital importance of putting the

:29:52.:29:55.

funding of supported housing on a sustainable long-term footing. It is

:29:56.:30:00.

essential that we do this so as not to let down a very vulnerable group

:30:01.:30:07.

of people, whether they are elderly, young, have a physical disability

:30:08.:30:10.

have suffered domestic violence or face mental health challenges. My

:30:11.:30:15.

intention is to seek to be helpful and not hostile, but those involved

:30:16.:30:22.

in the sector are very worried about the future and it is vitally

:30:23.:30:26.

important that the government know their concerns and take them fully

:30:27.:30:31.

into account in producing their proposals, which I hope will be

:30:32.:30:37.

available shortly. The one-year exemption for supported housing from

:30:38.:30:41.

the 1% rent reduction for social housing landlords and the one-year

:30:42.:30:45.

delay in applying local housing allowance caps to residents in

:30:46.:30:49.

supported housing provides some breathing space but the clock is

:30:50.:30:55.

ticking down to 2017 when this one-year grace period expires. It is

:30:56.:31:00.

important to have new policies in place before then so that will not

:31:01.:31:06.

only remove worries about the viability of existing schemes, but

:31:07.:31:10.

also to act as a catalyst for attracting much-needed new

:31:11.:31:14.

investment into the sector. I will give way. I would like to

:31:15.:31:19.

congratulate my honourable friend for securing this debate, but more

:31:20.:31:23.

than that, for bringing up important issues about the barriers to

:31:24.:31:27.

receiving good care, the lack of correct supported housing that it

:31:28.:31:34.

leads to with learning disabilities and mental illness, and he will, I'm

:31:35.:31:39.

sure be aware that on a daily basis many mental health wards in the

:31:40.:31:43.

country are struggling to find suitable step down housing and

:31:44.:31:46.

community housing for patients that badly needed because this is an

:31:47.:31:52.

issue that has not been properly gripped with. Would he agree with

:31:53.:32:00.

that? I thank my honourable friend for the intervention, and I agree

:32:01.:32:03.

this is an issue that we need to tackle very, very quickly and I'm

:32:04.:32:06.

grateful to him for what he has said. This week, Mr Speaker, I

:32:07.:32:12.

joined the National Housing Federation's Starts at Home

:32:13.:32:18.

campaign. It tries to highlight the unique benefits of supported housing

:32:19.:32:21.

and how it is so important to individuals and society. The

:32:22.:32:24.

campaign seeks to secure a commitment from the government to

:32:25.:32:28.

ensure that everyone can have a home that meets their own unique needs.

:32:29.:32:36.

Over the past three months I have received representations, had

:32:37.:32:41.

meetings with and have also visited a wide variety of organisations,

:32:42.:32:45.

national and local, all very concerned about the future of the

:32:46.:32:49.

sector. As well as the National Housing Federation these include the

:32:50.:32:56.

local government Association, Suffolk County Council, the

:32:57.:33:00.

Salvation Army, Papworth trust and the give us a chance foundation who

:33:01.:33:04.

as well as providing accommodation help young people into work and

:33:05.:33:07.

sustainable employment. I will give way to my honourable friend. I thank

:33:08.:33:12.

the honourable member forgiving way. I wonder if he is also aware of the

:33:13.:33:17.

Cambridge Housing group which provides sheltered housing in my

:33:18.:33:20.

constituency, who warned that the housing cap changes could cost them

:33:21.:33:24.

up to half ?1 million per year for their key schemes in the city

:33:25.:33:30.

plunged into chaos by these financial proposals. I'm grateful to

:33:31.:33:33.

my boyfriend for raising the issue. I have come across a lot of cases

:33:34.:33:37.

like that and I will be producing statistics that confirm that. It's

:33:38.:33:41.

very important to have those specific case studies on the ground

:33:42.:33:46.

and emphasise the serious nature of the problems we face. There are also

:33:47.:33:53.

local providers in Suffolk, and in my own constituency, such as access

:33:54.:33:58.

community trust, the housing association and the professional

:33:59.:34:02.

deputy service to provide advice and support to vulnerable and dependent

:34:03.:34:05.

people. There are also charities and social investors, either already

:34:06.:34:09.

active in the sector or wanting to get involved.

:34:10.:34:32.

I will give way to my honourable friend. I echo my friend's welcome

:34:33.:34:41.

for this debate, alacrity is the keyword in that 970 units under

:34:42.:34:50.

threat, 80% of all pipeline development in specialist housing,

:34:51.:34:54.

and I welcomed the review, but what what we need is a decision from the

:34:55.:35:01.

government to put on a firmer footing the long-term future of

:35:02.:35:06.

specialised housing. I thank my friend for that intervention, he is

:35:07.:35:09.

right. We are getting to a stage where speed is of the essence. The

:35:10.:35:14.

case for supporting housing is compelling. There is a rising demand

:35:15.:35:18.

for care and support due to an ageing population, and increased

:35:19.:35:23.

levels of mental health and learning disabilities and the National

:35:24.:35:32.

Housing Federation has pointed out, supported housing enables older

:35:33.:35:35.

people to retain independence and enables young people to live

:35:36.:35:39.

securely and get their lives back on track and makes sure victims of

:35:40.:35:42.

domestic violence are able to find emergency refuge into a safe place,

:35:43.:35:47.

and it helps homeless people with complex and multiple needs. To make

:35:48.:35:53.

the transition from living on the street to a settled home with

:35:54.:35:57.

education, training or implement. It makes sure that people with mental

:35:58.:36:00.

health needs can stabilise their lives and live more independently. I

:36:01.:36:08.

will give way. By most grateful. My friend has hit the nail on the head,

:36:09.:36:13.

these housing units have these additional costs therefore it raises

:36:14.:36:19.

the issue of whether introducing this cap is appropriate immolation

:36:20.:36:21.

to supported housing and maybe the government should think again about

:36:22.:36:30.

what is done in this sector. I will be coming on to make that very

:36:31.:36:35.

point. In addition ex-service men and women are able to find a stable

:36:36.:36:38.

home, this includes those with mental health and physical

:36:39.:36:43.

disabilities, people with learning disabilities are able to maximise

:36:44.:36:46.

their independence and exercise choice and control over their lives.

:36:47.:36:51.

It should also be pointed out that investment in supported housing can

:36:52.:36:58.

provide a benefit to more expensive... I will give way. I

:36:59.:37:04.

would like to congratulate him on securing this debate on a very

:37:05.:37:08.

important subject, but the homes and communities agency have identified

:37:09.:37:14.

savings of 640 in pounds to the taxpayer with investment in

:37:15.:37:23.

supported housing -- ?640 million. I did not interrupted the honourable

:37:24.:37:25.

gentleman was in full flow, but we don't have interventions in a German

:37:26.:37:32.

debates from the opposition front bench -- interventions adjournment

:37:33.:37:40.

debates. It looks like the gentleman was not aware of this convention,

:37:41.:37:44.

but he is now. I am now also aware of this in to mention, but the point

:37:45.:37:48.

he makes is a good one. -- this convention. The development of new

:37:49.:37:55.

supported housing schemes is of vital strategic importance to

:37:56.:38:00.

councils providing adult social care services and it will help them meet

:38:01.:38:04.

the care and support needs of an ageing population, making the best

:38:05.:38:09.

use of limited budgets, such models provide people with greater

:38:10.:38:12.

independence, meet the support needs of individuals and are more

:38:13.:38:16.

cost-effective than residential provision. I'm very grateful to my

:38:17.:38:25.

friend and I think he's making a strong case. To add to the point,

:38:26.:38:30.

Worcestershire County Council had contacted me to say they are

:38:31.:38:33.

concerned that some of the schemes they have been working on could be

:38:34.:38:39.

under threat as a result of this cap and they want me to make sure their

:38:40.:38:44.

concerns were taken through in this debate. I'm grateful for that

:38:45.:38:52.

intervention. It is the same position in Suffolk as it is in

:38:53.:38:56.

Worcestershire. I will give way. I'm grateful. He is being most generous.

:38:57.:39:06.

And making a powerful speech. Isn't the nub of the problem that we are

:39:07.:39:11.

facing, the insecurity regarding the funding and the funding model means

:39:12.:39:15.

it is actually very difficult for a number of housing associations to be

:39:16.:39:20.

able to develop new products and get the investment they need so they can

:39:21.:39:26.

help people at a cost effective way, in supported housing. She is right,

:39:27.:39:35.

we are in a period of limbo, and what that means, nothing is

:39:36.:39:40.

happening. Schemes that are desperate in needed are not coming

:39:41.:39:48.

forward. Research shows that a person with learning disabilities

:39:49.:39:50.

moves from residential care to supported living, savings can be

:39:51.:39:57.

achieved in the order of ?185 per week if this is extrapolated

:39:58.:40:01.

nationally, there would be a reduction of at least ?72 million

:40:02.:40:07.

per year from social care budgets. There are other advantages of

:40:08.:40:12.

specialised supported housing, in a care home the minimum standard for

:40:13.:40:17.

an individual room is 12 metres squared, but in an apartment for

:40:18.:40:22.

specialised supported housing it is of the order of 15 metres squared.

:40:23.:40:26.

In a care home support is organised to support the demands of group

:40:27.:40:30.

living, but in specialised supported housing it is tailored to meet the

:40:31.:40:36.

needs of the individual. The homes and communities agency has found

:40:37.:40:39.

supported housing provision has a net positive benefit of ?640 million

:40:40.:40:47.

to UK taxpayers and there is a current shortage of 15,640 places,

:40:48.:40:56.

14% of supply, and if current trends continue, the shortfall will double

:40:57.:41:03.

by 2019 - 20. It should also be highlighted there are 30,000 people

:41:04.:41:05.

in the UK with learning difficulties, who are still living

:41:06.:41:13.

with their parents, and research by the Papworth trust shows 1.8 million

:41:14.:41:16.

people require some form of access of all housing, the number is

:41:17.:41:21.

growing every year. When a disabled person is living in an inaccessible

:41:22.:41:28.

-- living in an accessible home which meets their needs their

:41:29.:41:32.

quality-of-life is improved and their job prospects also benefit.

:41:33.:41:36.

The message is clear, there's a compelling case supported housing,

:41:37.:41:39.

demand for which is increasing every year. If we don't put its funding on

:41:40.:41:46.

a secure, sustainable long-term footing, a significant proportion of

:41:47.:41:50.

existing supporting housing schemes will be forced to close, leaving

:41:51.:41:54.

many vulnerable disadvantage people with nowhere to live and more over,

:41:55.:42:00.

the much-needed new accommodation will not be built. In finding a

:42:01.:42:07.

sustainable long-term solution for the funding of supported housing, it

:42:08.:42:11.

is important to think outside the narrow departmental confines of DWP.

:42:12.:42:19.

There is a need to break out and to think holistically. Supported

:42:20.:42:27.

housing is not just for DWP, it is not just about housing and benefits,

:42:28.:42:31.

it's a case of the Department of Health, as it concerns physical and

:42:32.:42:42.

mental health care. It was a job for councils, whether they are housing

:42:43.:42:46.

authorities or social care providers, it is of interest to

:42:47.:42:49.

housing association is, charities, social investors, keen to pursue

:42:50.:42:54.

innovative projects which will change people's lives. Achieving

:42:55.:43:00.

good supported housing requires a focused partnership between housing

:43:01.:43:04.

authorities, housing associations, care and support providers and

:43:05.:43:09.

councils providing social care, and what this all means is that

:43:10.:43:13.

supported housing is not just about housing. As it delivers benefits far

:43:14.:43:21.

beyond the walls of the DWP it is appropriate to look at securing

:43:22.:43:24.

funding for more wide-ranging potential sources from other

:43:25.:43:30.

departments. In the fullness of time, devolved government might also

:43:31.:43:33.

have a role to play. I will give way. My honourable friend is making

:43:34.:43:41.

a typically powerful speech. Does he agree that each year we have delayed

:43:42.:43:45.

discharge crisis across Acute Hospital trusts in England and were

:43:46.:43:51.

we to think long-term about we fund supported housing, it could pay for

:43:52.:43:56.

itself in terms of a reduction of the cost to the taxpayer of these

:43:57.:44:03.

crises which happen every winter? He makes a very good point. If we can

:44:04.:44:10.

just raise our eyes and think long-term instead of just

:44:11.:44:15.

short-term, then savings will be produced which can actually deliver

:44:16.:44:18.

the far better high-quality supported housing that we need. I

:44:19.:44:23.

will give way. I friend is being very generous. On that point, would

:44:24.:44:29.

he also accepted that the reality on the ground is not actually... The

:44:30.:44:36.

lack of suitable supported housing is leading to the fact that hospital

:44:37.:44:41.

and mental health wards are having to discharge people onto the streets

:44:42.:44:44.

in some cases, which is most undesirable, very vulnerable people.

:44:45.:44:50.

Or in the alternative having to put people into very unsuitable housing

:44:51.:44:55.

and this situation needs to be addressed very urgently.

:44:56.:45:00.

Accommodation needs to happen with the Department of Health to make

:45:01.:45:08.

that happen. Yes, I would agree. All types of housing are interrelated,

:45:09.:45:13.

you cause a problem in one and it has a negative spin off to another.

:45:14.:45:21.

The prospect of the local housing allowance cap being applied to

:45:22.:45:25.

residents in supported housing after one year... After the one-year

:45:26.:45:29.

delay, is causing considerable concern in the sector. With housing

:45:30.:45:35.

benefit set to be abolished as the roll of universal credit begins, it

:45:36.:45:41.

is appropriate for the government to review the funding of supported

:45:42.:45:45.

housing. However, feedback from the National Housing Federation reveals

:45:46.:45:51.

that the threat of a crude cap is having a detrimental effect. 24% of

:45:52.:45:56.

supported housing providers have told the NHS that of their sheltered

:45:57.:46:03.

units, all of them were at risk of becoming unviable and closing --

:46:04.:46:10.

National Housing Federation. 156,000 units of supported housing it has

:46:11.:46:15.

been estimated would be unviable and at risk of closure, that is 41% of

:46:16.:46:19.

all existing schemes, and there would also be an impact on the

:46:20.:46:22.

future development with an estimated 9270 units in the pipeline not being

:46:23.:46:30.

developed. This represents 80% of the total existing development

:46:31.:46:35.

pipeline and includes more than 8000 specialist homes for older people

:46:36.:46:39.

and people with disabilities which was announced in last year's, brands

:46:40.:46:46.

of spending review. The cap undermines several pieces of

:46:47.:46:49.

legislation introduced by the last Coalition Government. The

:46:50.:46:52.

introduction of specified accommodation in 2014 establish a

:46:53.:46:56.

precedent of treating supported housing differently to other forms

:46:57.:47:03.

of social housing. In addition to being eligible for high rates of

:47:04.:47:06.

housing benefit, specified in, day she has been removed from the

:47:07.:47:11.

current universal credit arrangements -- specified

:47:12.:47:18.

accommodation has been removed. This is not only in consistent with

:47:19.:47:21.

previous policy, but it also places at risk the step government has

:47:22.:47:27.

taken already to protect housing for the most disadvantaged. It also

:47:28.:47:32.

threatens one of the government's own flagship policies, the

:47:33.:47:36.

transforming care programme, which relies on supported accommodation

:47:37.:47:41.

being available in the community. In 2014 the rental agreement was

:47:42.:47:44.

approved by the homes and communities agency, which allowed

:47:45.:47:49.

registered social landlords to increase their rents by inflation

:47:50.:47:52.

plus 1% annually for the next ten years. The purpose of the agreement

:47:53.:47:58.

was to provide registered social landlords with a stable base from

:47:59.:48:02.

which to invest in their services, including the provision of new

:48:03.:48:07.

supported housing. By capping social rents the government has removed the

:48:08.:48:11.

stability, making it virtually impossible for providers of

:48:12.:48:14.

supported housing to plan future developments. For those already

:48:15.:48:20.

invested in new schemes, the cap will also jeopardise their ability

:48:21.:48:23.

to meet existing financial returns of current investment. I will give

:48:24.:48:31.

way. He's making a very powerful and Bernard speech. It is often

:48:32.:48:36.

difficult and people often get it wrong with housing benefit -- learn

:48:37.:48:40.

and speech. I completed many government

:48:41.:48:47.

documents to set up housing scheme specifically for victims of domestic

:48:48.:48:50.

violence, but the government signed off on funding based on the current

:48:51.:48:57.

housing rates of housing benefit. For the future of those projects.

:48:58.:49:02.

The government signed off on those and are now putting their own work

:49:03.:49:03.

in jeopardy. I'm grateful for the intervention

:49:04.:49:11.

because it provides a clear illustration of the point I am

:49:12.:49:20.

making. Inside Housing survey found that 90% of supported housing

:49:21.:49:23.

providers would be forced to wind up some or all of their schemes. HB

:49:24.:49:30.

Villages want to do better -- invest in new developments. They require no

:49:31.:49:36.

public grants but it can only be done if future rents are protected

:49:37.:49:40.

from continued rent exemption. I fully appreciate that the review

:49:41.:49:47.

must be comprehensive and based on as much evidence as possible and

:49:48.:49:52.

it's important not to rush it in order to arrive at a sustainable

:49:53.:49:58.

long-term funding solution. However an early assurance from the

:49:59.:50:01.

government, perhaps from the Minister tonight, that the cap will

:50:02.:50:05.

not apply to supported housing will remove the uncertainty that

:50:06.:50:11.

currently hangs over the uncertainty that hangs over the sector. In

:50:12.:50:17.

framing their proposals for the future of supported housing, it is

:50:18.:50:21.

vital that the government have in mind the needs of those charities,

:50:22.:50:26.

housing associations and social investors both already active and

:50:27.:50:30.

doing great work in the sector and those looking to get involved. There

:50:31.:50:35.

is an enormous amount of goodwill and capital waiting in the wings. If

:50:36.:50:40.

the right framework is put in place, those organisations and charities,

:50:41.:50:45.

those investors and charities, they will step up to the plate and carry

:50:46.:50:51.

out projects, and in doing so they will bring significant benefits to

:50:52.:50:57.

the lives of many. Thank you for being so generous with your time.

:50:58.:51:02.

I'm not sure if he knew that women's refuge accommodation in Scotland is

:51:03.:51:05.

often in the ownership of local authorities and housing

:51:06.:51:09.

associations. It is estimated that a one-bedroom flat in a city like

:51:10.:51:15.

Glasgow, there would be a ?7,100 loss per year on the flat. Would he

:51:16.:51:18.

agree without looking at the cap and changing the way the policy is going

:51:19.:51:21.

at the moment, these services will become unsustainable? I thank my

:51:22.:51:26.

honourable friend for the intervention and I think what we are

:51:27.:51:31.

getting this evening, as we started with an East Anglia and flavour to

:51:32.:51:35.

the intervention, but that has widened to cover the whole country

:51:36.:51:40.

so it is very much a national crisis we are facing. Going back to East

:51:41.:51:46.

Anglia, and housing association active in Suffolk have emphasised to

:51:47.:51:51.

me the importance of a long-term plan. You cannot run a business,

:51:52.:51:57.

they say which has a 10-year outlook on the back of local authority

:51:58.:52:03.

discretionary housing payments. An organisation I would like to briefly

:52:04.:52:11.

mention is Amaeus, set up 20 years ago just outside Cambridge. They now

:52:12.:52:18.

have 28 communities across the UK supporting over 700 vulnerable

:52:19.:52:21.

people with the objective of increasing this to 1000 by 20 20.

:52:22.:52:29.

They need a stable funding regime in order to set up new communities

:52:30.:52:41.

which serves my own and several surrounding constituencies.

:52:42.:52:46.

Ultimately, with the right initial support, Amaeus communities are self

:52:47.:52:54.

funding. It shows that the social return on investment in their

:52:55.:52:57.

communities, using the Treasury to give them a discounted rate of 3.5%,

:52:58.:53:04.

is ?11 for every ?1 invested. In addition, the present value of

:53:05.:53:09.

savings to the state is nearly ?6 million for a contribution of just

:53:10.:53:12.

over ?2.7 million in housing benefit. Providing the right

:53:13.:53:20.

long-term investment framework, we encourage the provision in new

:53:21.:53:24.

developments of adaptive technologies which not only enhance

:53:25.:53:28.

the lives of residents, but also produce significant cost savings to

:53:29.:53:32.

councils then releasing funds available for investment elsewhere.

:53:33.:53:39.

Research by HB Villages shows the introduction of adaptive

:53:40.:53:43.

technologies can produce savings of ?3.7 million about 20% of budget on

:53:44.:53:55.

a typical council. I look forward to hearing the Minister's responds. I

:53:56.:53:59.

hope people answer the following questions. How was the evidence

:54:00.:54:03.

review going? When will the results be available? Are the wide ranging

:54:04.:54:09.

parties interested in the sector or being consulted? What is the impact

:54:10.:54:15.

of the roll-out of universal credit? Will he give early confirmation

:54:16.:54:21.

tonight that the threat of the crude local housing allowance cap after

:54:22.:54:27.

next April will be removed. In conclusion, Mr Speaker, in putting

:54:28.:54:31.

in place the new framework for the future of funding of supported

:54:32.:54:35.

housing, I urge the government to be sympathetic, to be visionary and to

:54:36.:54:42.

think strategically. It is so important for the future lives of so

:54:43.:54:46.

many vulnerable people that they now pursue such a course.

:54:47.:54:52.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, it's a pleasure to be able to contribute to

:54:53.:55:00.

this very important debate, and I congratulate my honourable friend

:55:01.:55:04.

for Waverley, not just for his very well judged and his sensible remarks

:55:05.:55:10.

this evening but for his commitment in this issue, and to my honourable

:55:11.:55:15.

and Right Honourable members across the house. The house will know that

:55:16.:55:21.

we did discuss this matter earlier in the year, in March, and the

:55:22.:55:25.

minister then was very receptive. And it would be remiss of me to

:55:26.:55:32.

record my delight at the results of my own party's leadership and to say

:55:33.:55:39.

in particular that the Right Honourable friend for Maidenhead

:55:40.:55:44.

that she has made a specific and strong commitment to housing and

:55:45.:55:50.

addressing it as one of the number one, if not to be number one issue

:55:51.:56:00.

in our country. And I have to say that I welcome the decision of the

:56:01.:56:08.

government to undertake a strategic review of supported housing and

:56:09.:56:12.

specialist housing, and it was in response to a ground swell of

:56:13.:56:17.

significant concern, not just from registered providers across the

:56:18.:56:23.

country, but also from us as individual consistency members of

:56:24.:56:26.

Parliament. And I wanted to make a few general comments about the

:56:27.:56:30.

issue, and I haven't got the command of the facts and figures. But also

:56:31.:56:38.

to talk about some of the impact that may accrue in my own

:56:39.:56:41.

constituency and the surrounding area. I'm extremely grateful to Alan

:56:42.:56:48.

Lewin, chief executive of axiom housing, who has provided me with a

:56:49.:56:53.

very strong briefing. It is one year ago that I attended a social event,

:56:54.:57:00.

as it happens at number 11 Downing St and I managed to buttonhole the

:57:01.:57:05.

honourable lady from Birmingham, who is impressed, and I do occasionally

:57:06.:57:13.

crossed the threshold in these esteemed addresses in our country

:57:14.:57:17.

and may do in the future, who knows? Maybe under the new dispensation. I

:57:18.:57:24.

am touched by the solicited of the lady for Birmingham Yardley. What I

:57:25.:57:30.

said on that occasion to the Chancellor is, you cannot solve

:57:31.:57:35.

these problems by salami slicing, by incremental policies on tackling the

:57:36.:57:43.

area of supporting specialist housing, Acute Hospital care and

:57:44.:57:47.

adult social care in the interface with local government. You actually

:57:48.:57:51.

have to have a long-term strategic vision of addressing the significant

:57:52.:57:57.

massive demographic changes which give rise to very many older people

:57:58.:58:06.

who need to be housed and I do think to an extent that the Minister is

:58:07.:58:12.

caught somewhat, because this is not the responsibility of local

:58:13.:58:17.

government, it is a Treasury driven initiative. He can't say it, but I

:58:18.:58:21.

can as a humble backbencher. Unfortunately they are caught

:58:22.:58:29.

between two stools in that they have do continue to develop the policy

:58:30.:58:33.

even though, long-term thinking has not yet been put in place. I think

:58:34.:58:40.

that the house must be aware that this is an issue which is probably

:58:41.:58:49.

the most important issue because we cannot beat the demographic clock,

:58:50.:58:53.

and as my honourable friend said, and it runs with one of my own

:58:54.:58:57.

policies, to an extent, the policy of oversight of local government for

:58:58.:59:06.

adult social care, of health and we certainly need the extra time to put

:59:07.:59:12.

in a new funding formula but it must not be nice batch cocktail is. We

:59:13.:59:17.

have to think about predicting demographic change and assisting

:59:18.:59:20.

local housing associations to deal with that and, of course, not just

:59:21.:59:25.

supported housing for older people, but some of the most vulnerable

:59:26.:59:30.

people in society. People with special education needs. I give way.

:59:31.:59:37.

I thank you again for securing this debate, because I just want to talk

:59:38.:59:42.

briefly about supported housing for vulnerable people, exactly the point

:59:43.:59:45.

you are making, and it's not a case of just talking about the country, I

:59:46.:59:50.

want to bring London back into the equation because of you any build

:59:51.:59:54.

these things out of London, people have to leave their local

:59:55.:59:58.

communities, and if you want to keep people in the family environment, we

:59:59.:00:04.

have to remember we have to build these expensive properties in London

:00:05.:00:07.

and the final of the point I wanted to make is that we can currently

:00:08.:00:12.

build them by using the 106 agreements but if these will become

:00:13.:00:16.

starter homes or be sold off, there will be less opportunity for

:00:17.:00:21.

councils to be able to provide this sort of housing, so I would urge the

:00:22.:00:25.

Minister to please, in conclusion, consider supported housing and this

:00:26.:00:30.

type of accommodation when looking at other options available. I thank

:00:31.:00:37.

my honourable friend for Kensington and the intervention. She goes to

:00:38.:00:41.

the nub of the issue, which is we are not talking about fiscal changes

:00:42.:00:46.

for general needs housing, which is a separate issue and we understand

:00:47.:00:50.

the significant increase in the housing benefit bill over the last

:00:51.:00:53.

number of years and that we have to reduce it but we are talking about

:00:54.:01:00.

young people who are fleeing violent backgrounds, women who are fleeing

:01:01.:01:09.

violent partners and teenagers and children and young adults who have

:01:10.:01:16.

mental health issues, which was alluded to earlier, and that is

:01:17.:01:20.

different. The Minister needs to put a case to the Treasury that a much

:01:21.:01:26.

more long-term and sustainable funding regime should be put in

:01:27.:01:31.

place. And that is before we go any further. I mentioned earlier about

:01:32.:01:37.

delayed discharge. If we were only in a position to properly plan these

:01:38.:01:42.

supporting housing schemes, which are now under threat, as so

:01:43.:01:46.

eloquently revealed by my honourable friend, we would make a net saving.

:01:47.:01:54.

It might take five years or ten years, but the number of older

:01:55.:01:59.

people who are admitted to hospital do not need to be in Acute Hospital

:02:00.:02:03.

beds but in the appropriate housing in order to deal with their specific

:02:04.:02:10.

and individual needs. Would my honourable friend agree also that

:02:11.:02:13.

the elderly people with specific conditions they could avoid a

:02:14.:02:16.

hospital admission altogether if they have the right supported

:02:17.:02:22.

housing? Absolutely. And one of the great pleasures of being a

:02:23.:02:25.

constituency MP is that we get to visit some of these excellent

:02:26.:02:31.

supporting housing schemes and I can think of Friary Court and the

:02:32.:02:38.

Pavilions who have had an impact in the urban area of pita bread. Can I

:02:39.:02:43.

just alluded briefly to the specific concerns raised question what -- the

:02:44.:02:56.

urban area of Peter borough. He said that one of the consequences of the

:02:57.:03:00.

proposed local housing allowance policy, a flagship extra care scheme

:03:01.:03:06.

for 60 vulnerable people at Whittlesey, which is in North East

:03:07.:03:10.

Cambridgeshire, and that is now on hold because he cannot commit to

:03:11.:03:12.

building the new projects when there is uncertainty surrounding the

:03:13.:03:17.

future revenue funding streams, and I think that is a good point. It

:03:18.:03:21.

does have an impact way you have low value land, as you do in the

:03:22.:03:26.

neighbouring authority but there are other parts of the East of England

:03:27.:03:32.

where that will also be appropriate. He also mentions the impact on

:03:33.:03:37.

current services. Young person's foyer is and specialist supported

:03:38.:03:42.

planning an expert sheltered housing. He says the current impact

:03:43.:03:48.

on each of these schemes and projects, based on current rents and

:03:49.:03:52.

services is summarised below. For instance, the Peterborough Fourier

:03:53.:03:58.

and the Wisbech foy eight, which do a good job for young people who want

:03:59.:04:04.

to get off benefits and into work or training or internships to make

:04:05.:04:06.

something of their lives and improve themselves, that will have a

:04:07.:04:18.

cumulative loss in annual income of ?627,550. Our homeless hostels, he

:04:19.:04:29.

says, would lose 461,407 pounds. As we said, the three extra care

:04:30.:04:36.

schemes in Peterborough, will lose ?794,704.

:04:37.:04:41.

You don't get a generic service with a specialist housing, as my friend

:04:42.:04:49.

said, you do have night porter services for safety and security,

:04:50.:04:53.

for instance. You have an enhanced service which has to be paid for and

:04:54.:04:59.

losses will also vary according to the level of supporting people

:05:00.:05:11.

money. Otherwise the costs will go into the service charge, which will

:05:12.:05:16.

now be capped. He goes onto say that the loss revenue to axiom is ?2.2

:05:17.:05:27.

million. Unless the government has innovative, a forward-looking

:05:28.:05:32.

approach, however is that money can be made up, not just axiom, but many

:05:33.:05:39.

of the registered providers that provide this much-needed housing for

:05:40.:05:45.

vulnerable people, they will find themselves in great difficulty and

:05:46.:05:51.

that will clearly impact on work in the community, general needs

:05:52.:05:55.

housing, and I have a local housing association which runs an

:05:56.:05:59.

apprenticeship School, Crosskeys homes, which is a great skin, there

:06:00.:06:04.

will be a knock on effect and there will be a tumour to knock on effects

:06:05.:06:09.

in terms of -- which is a great scheme, there will be a knock on

:06:10.:06:14.

effect and there will be an accumulative knock on effect. I will

:06:15.:06:22.

give way. He's making an excellent speech and I agree with many of the

:06:23.:06:29.

points. The many people, access services in my constituency, if they

:06:30.:06:35.

did not go there, they would be out on the streets -- for many people.

:06:36.:06:40.

There are no other housing providers which will take them. Absolutely.

:06:41.:06:45.

The lady from Glasgow makes a very good point. There is going to be

:06:46.:06:52.

consequences if we don't step back and I didn't just make reference to

:06:53.:06:58.

the new Prime Minister because I want a job, because that is highly

:06:59.:07:04.

unlikely. Highly unlikely. After 11 years I'm resigned to being a humble

:07:05.:07:10.

spear carrier in the drama of British politics and there has been

:07:11.:07:14.

a lot of drama this week. But the new government has given priority is

:07:15.:07:18.

under vision, and new principles, and housing is massively important.

:07:19.:07:24.

Housing our most vulnerable people, looking after people, getting them

:07:25.:07:28.

off the streets, and we should be proud of what this government has

:07:29.:07:32.

done on housing. One of the reasons I'm commenting in this debate and

:07:33.:07:36.

making these remarks, I don't want them to throw the record away by a

:07:37.:07:44.

short-term action of cutting a few million or hundred million here and

:07:45.:07:47.

there, but actually making the situation worse down the line. I

:07:48.:07:51.

will conclude by saying thank you to my honourable friend and I pay

:07:52.:07:56.

tribute to the gentleman for Newcastle North who has raised the

:07:57.:08:02.

issue in the past and I hope I can get reassurance from the Minister

:08:03.:08:04.

that he does talk to his colleagues in the Treasury and other

:08:05.:08:11.

departments. He can come back and win the review is concluded in an

:08:12.:08:16.

expeditious fashion in the next few months and we are able to tell our

:08:17.:08:20.

constituents and housing associations that the government is

:08:21.:08:23.

taking housing seriously, and if looking after the needs of the most

:08:24.:08:28.

vulnerable people in society because we are compassionate Conservatives,

:08:29.:08:35.

that should be our watchword. I call Marcus Jones to reply. Other like to

:08:36.:08:40.

begin by congratulating my honourable friend for securing this

:08:41.:08:50.

debate, and it is clear that he has significant knowledge of this

:08:51.:08:54.

important subject. In my speech I will do my best to respond to the

:08:55.:09:01.

comments he made and it is also obvious from other interventions and

:09:02.:09:05.

the speech of my friend from Peterborough that there are a

:09:06.:09:09.

considerable number of members across this house who also have

:09:10.:09:14.

significant knowledge and passion on this very important subject. Mr

:09:15.:09:26.

Speaker, I am pleased to the -- be responding in this debate because we

:09:27.:09:32.

are in a very important place in our journey, supported housing plays a

:09:33.:09:35.

crucial role in supporting hundreds of thousands of the most vulnerable

:09:36.:09:40.

people in the country. A safe stable and supportive place to live, it can

:09:41.:09:46.

be the key to unlocking better outcomes for individuals, and for

:09:47.:09:49.

many it is also the stepping stone to independent living in the longer

:09:50.:09:55.

term. That has been mentioned by a number of colleagues in this debate.

:09:56.:10:00.

One of this government's key commitments is to protect the most

:10:01.:10:03.

vulnerable, the provision of supported housing underpins this

:10:04.:10:09.

commitment and helps departments all across Whitehall fulfil the

:10:10.:10:14.

objectives in supporting those most in need and delivering on this

:10:15.:10:21.

promise. This sector supports people from right across the country, as

:10:22.:10:25.

has been rightly said, in this debate, from those with mental

:10:26.:10:29.

health conditions to rough sleepers and people who are homeless, two

:10:30.:10:34.

ex-offenders and those escaping domestic violence. It makes sure

:10:35.:10:42.

vulnerable elderly people can maintain their independence for as

:10:43.:10:45.

long as possible and to live safely and insecurity and that those with

:10:46.:10:51.

learning difficulties can live as independently as possible and care

:10:52.:10:54.

leavers can safely make the transition to self-reliance. The

:10:55.:10:58.

importance of supported housing cannot be overestimated. Supported

:10:59.:11:04.

housing helps people meet the demands of daily life and it helps

:11:05.:11:08.

people get their lives in order. It improves and supports their health

:11:09.:11:15.

and well-being and it provides a place of safety and stability where

:11:16.:11:19.

people can achieve independence and reach their full potential. I

:11:20.:11:26.

understand that the honourable gentleman would like to intervene

:11:27.:11:32.

but I will take heed of Mr Speaker's comments made earlier in the debate.

:11:33.:11:37.

Whilst looking after the most vulnerable in society, we must also

:11:38.:11:43.

make sure that funding for supported housing is efficient, workable,

:11:44.:11:47.

transparent and sustainable. So that it delivers a secure, quality

:11:48.:11:52.

service which provides for those who need it and makes the best use of

:11:53.:11:57.

the money available. Long-term reform of the sector is overdue.

:11:58.:12:04.

Working with and listening to commissioners and providers to date

:12:05.:12:09.

has been invaluable in helping us two envisaged what the future might

:12:10.:12:15.

look like and I see a very positive future. A future where high-quality

:12:16.:12:19.

supported housing is there to provide the right support at the

:12:20.:12:23.

right time. And for the right length of time. Helping those who can move

:12:24.:12:31.

on into work and independence. Where services are outcomes focused,

:12:32.:12:35.

accountable, planned and responsive to individual and local needs. Our

:12:36.:12:39.

new funding regime must support these goals. The decisions we make

:12:40.:12:44.

will lay the foundations for that future. The roll-out of universal

:12:45.:12:51.

credit provides an opportunity to drive that reform, as housing

:12:52.:12:56.

benefit is phased out. Reform of the sector and a new funding regime must

:12:57.:13:00.

be in place for when universal credit is fully rolled out. We think

:13:01.:13:07.

that better services for vulnerable people and value for money go

:13:08.:13:11.

hand-in-hand and our reforms must drive both. We want the quality of

:13:12.:13:17.

services and the focus on outcomes for the people who use them to be at

:13:18.:13:21.

the forefront and we must consider new approaches to transparency and

:13:22.:13:28.

oversight in order to achieve this. Let me set out what I believe must

:13:29.:13:32.

be the principles for a new, long-term funding regime. It must

:13:33.:13:38.

protect the public finances, for the taxpayer as well as both central and

:13:39.:13:44.

local government. It must also build in a rigorous approach, and value

:13:45.:13:49.

for money, at the same time in order to protect our vulnerable and older

:13:50.:13:54.

people both now and in the future, and it must be funded in such a way

:13:55.:13:59.

that recognises the increased cost of supporting people in the

:14:00.:14:04.

community as has been mentioned by colleagues across the chamber. I

:14:05.:14:08.

also want to make sure that future funding models provide enough

:14:09.:14:15.

certainty to make sure that the development of new supported housing

:14:16.:14:19.

units takes place. In particular an ageing population demands housing

:14:20.:14:28.

that keeps place. -- keeps pace with our needs for the welfare spending

:14:29.:14:33.

cannot spiral out of control, and it is right that people seeking housing

:14:34.:14:39.

benefit should not get high levels for the same property if that is in

:14:40.:14:44.

the social sector rather than in the private rented sector, but it is

:14:45.:14:48.

clear that supported housing is different and should be treated

:14:49.:14:52.

differently. Government recognises the high costs associated with

:14:53.:14:57.

providing supporting housing for vulnerable groups over and above the

:14:58.:15:01.

costs of general needs housing and that is why it is crucial that we

:15:02.:15:08.

work across government as my friend from Peterborough said and alongside

:15:09.:15:13.

the sector and other partners, to find a workable and sustainable

:15:14.:15:18.

solution. It is absolutely right that there has been a significant

:15:19.:15:22.

and great deal of interest in this important issue, and we have said

:15:23.:15:27.

all along that we wish to hear from a wide spectrum of stakeholders and

:15:28.:15:32.

other partners to make sure that we reflect the diversity of vulnerable

:15:33.:15:39.

people's needs and the support offered across all parts of the

:15:40.:15:42.

sector, and I can reassure my vulnerable friend -- my honourable

:15:43.:15:49.

friend, we are constantly engaging with the sector and have been for

:15:50.:15:53.

some months over this important issue because they are absolutely

:15:54.:15:58.

part of coming up with a sustainable solution. And speaking to the sector

:15:59.:16:02.

I think they recognise that the status quo is not an option, but

:16:03.:16:08.

they are also making strong representation which we are

:16:09.:16:13.

certainly indeed this link to. Mr Speaker we have been -- indeed

:16:14.:16:21.

listening to. We have been listening to bodies like the government

:16:22.:16:27.

association, local authorities and other local commissions, as well as

:16:28.:16:30.

those who represent those in need which rely on the benefit from

:16:31.:16:37.

supported housing. Of course, in Scotland and Wales, housing is a

:16:38.:16:42.

devolved matter, and UK Government officials have been speaking to

:16:43.:16:46.

their counterparts in the devolved administrations. This dialogue has

:16:47.:16:53.

been absolutely crucial to guide our thinking on this important issue,

:16:54.:16:58.

and we need to keep talking as we firm up our plans. I want to take

:16:59.:17:03.

this opportunity to thank the sector bodies and representatives such as

:17:04.:17:10.

the National Housing Federation for the extensive engagement and the

:17:11.:17:13.

work they have undertaken to consider what the future regime

:17:14.:17:17.

might look like. It is important we consider all their proposals in

:17:18.:17:21.

detail and continue the conversation we have begun with the sector, and

:17:22.:17:27.

other partners. We should also hear all voices across this diverse

:17:28.:17:32.

sector. It is absolutely clear that supported housing is an investment

:17:33.:17:36.

which brings significant savings to other parts of the public sector

:17:37.:17:41.

especially the NHS. At the same time any loss provision means

:17:42.:17:45.

significance option to service users as well as expensive cost shunting,

:17:46.:17:51.

and that is why releasing carefully into the sector and putting in place

:17:52.:17:55.

the one-year exemption. The short-term exemption was welcomed by

:17:56.:17:59.

the sector but we recognise it is only a temporary fix. And that is

:18:00.:18:03.

why we are looking at a longer-term solution. That is a solution which

:18:04.:18:08.

must work for all parts of the sector and we must make sure that we

:18:09.:18:13.

recognise the diversity in the sector and we will continue to do

:18:14.:18:19.

that. I will subtly take the points that my honourable friend has made

:18:20.:18:22.

and honourable colleagues have made across the chamber tonight in the

:18:23.:18:26.

debate. I will take them into account. We certainly look forward

:18:27.:18:31.

to bringing a solution to this important issue as soon as is

:18:32.:18:35.

practical. Has the Minister sat down? He says

:18:36.:18:48.

he has concluded his speech. The question is, as many say aye, on the

:18:49.:19:01.

contrary noe. I think the ayes have it. Order, order.

:19:02.:19:04.

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