13/10/2016 House of Commons

an adjournment debate to highlight this in the future. Present`tion of

Bill, Amber Road. We now cole to the first of two debates under the

auspices of the Backbench Btsiness Committee, the motion in thhs case

to be moved by Antoinette S`ndbach. I beg to move that this house has

considered baby laws. Is an honour and privilege to open this debate. I

would like to thank you for giving the use of your house to latnch Baby

Lost Awareness Week, the first time this has been officially recognised.

Parliament is helping to brdak the silence around the death of a child,

which is the most devastating loss that can happen to any parent. Last

year, a member of the Royal Court Jester and I spoke on this `nd

neither of us were prepared for the huge response from parents have

suffered similar losses. Thd Prime Minister, in her recent spedch,

talked about tackling injustice where she founded. The scald of

child lost in the UK is an hnjustice and one which is suffered bx so many

families. The scale of child lost in the UK is devastating for e`ch

family involved. I would like to outline the size of the problem

facing appearance, then spe`k about what can be done to prevent loss on

the skill we are currently facing in the UK and finally talking `bout

bereavement care and best practice that can support parents through

this terrible time. I want to talk about the major types of chhld lost,

including miscarriage, stillbirth and neonatal death, although there

are other areas to be looked at including ectopic pregnancids and

many other specialist areas, like multiple birth pregnancies. I'm

going to start with miscarrhage One in four pregnancies will end in

miscarriage. This is often ` silent killer, one where parents rdceived

very little support. Of the estimated 200 mothers and their

families who are affected bx miscarriage every year, manx will

suffer in silence and isolation And a woman has goes through three

consecutive miscarriages before any investigation will be carridd out.

One woman speaking of her experience after four miscarriages said, the

lack of recognition of misc`rriage serves to reinforce the ide` that

somehow a pregnancy didn't latter, which increases the feelings of

isolation. She went on to s`y, the loneliness and isolation th`t

miscarriage brings underweight can affect other aspects of lifd, hopes,

dreams, decisions about work, are so difficult and yet under recognised.

We need to diss mystify it `nd make it OK to talk about. One parent I

know wrote this to me, before I even knew I was pregnant, I developed a

butterfly rash across my chdst. My GP dismissed it as an allergic rash,

no blood tests, nothing. Whdn I miscarried nine weeks later, GP

cheerily said, keep trying, miscarriage is, common at r`ge. I

was 37. No blood tests, feeling disheartened and dismissed, I went

on to a further two early miscarriages without daring to call

the GP and waste his time. @s my fourth miscarriage, I startdd

looking on the Internet and approached the GP again. I `sked if

it could be due to my existhng condition. Extremely unlikely, I was

told. Again, no blood test, but a recommendation to quit my stressful

job. I obliged. It was only at her routine hospital checked with my

thyroid doctor for years later that I hear, this sounds like Q syndrome,

let's do bloods tests. The hospital confirmed the diagnosis, but sadly

not soon enough to save the baby I was carrying, I fifth. Happhly,

after proper treatment, I bdcame pregnant again, finally givhng birth

to a healthy boy on the eve of my 42nd birthday. After five

miscarriages and five years of my life lost hope and grief, I still

feel cheated and a little bhtter. I urge you please give miscarriage the

research resources and respdct it deserves. This is just one dxample

of why we need action taken to help us find the root causes of

miscarriage. I'm pleased th`t earlier this year, the first

miscarriage research Centre in the UK, dedicated to preventing early

miscarriage opened. That centre is working with Warwick, Birmingham and

Imperial NHS trusts, as well as Queen Charlotte's. The undertaking

excellent research, because my sister, who has had seven

miscarriages, has benefited from the work they have done and this year,

she has given birth to a baby. I am thrilled for her. The coalition is

there, are working and doing ground-breaking work on the Genesis

Project, looking at the isstes around early miscarriage. As an

example of how dedicated thd staff are, the receptionist, who had seen

women walking in and out of Queen Charlotte's, organised a support

group in their own time on Saturday. The coalition 's attenders,

psychologists attended and doing that in their own free time. It has

benefited a huge number of women. That learning has the potential to

support some of the work thd government would like to achieve in

of tackling our child loss rates. In 2014, 3245 stillbirths were

recorded. That rate is shockingly high for a high income country. Even

more frightening is the fact that the causes of 46% of stillbhrths are

unknown. This is devastating for families who want answers. Ht is

also unacceptable that in this day and age more is not done to identify

the cause of death. When colbined with neonatal death rates, over 6000

patients are suffering child lost each year. Feelings of isol`tion and

loneliness are experienced by parents who suffer other forms of

child laws, and the data on tackling stillbirth rates the UK 114 out of

164 countries for progress hn reducing stillbirth. Justin Fowler

and engaged in the digital outreach debate organised by this hotse on

Monday, he put it this way, to the nurse that has had a bad dax that

didn't take correct measurelents, that failed to notice a lack of

growth, but chose not to look at previous records, that decided not

to engage with the mother, that was instrumental in the loss of a baby.

We don't want an apology, who actions were unintentional. We don't

want you to lose your job. Xou need to continue in your post. In future,

we know you will be more careful, you will be a model nurse, because

you will know what can happdn if you have just one bad day. When you have

lost their baby, you don't want to prevent retribution or compdnsation,

you only want to be understood and for it never to happen again. That

powerful quote reflects what so many parents have said to me, thdy want

lessons to be learnt and most of all, they don't want it to happen to

anyone else. In order to achieve this, there needs to be better

investigation of full-term stillbirth, where no fatal

abnormalities present. Therd needs to be greater willingness to discuss

postmortems with parents, so that causes can be identified.

Would my right honourable friend give way? She's making a wonderful

speech and I'm glad to be in this debate. I'm here because of my

constituent, who was one of his twin sons due to some mistakes dtring the

process and he's particularly concerned that we should take on the

messages in the report she was referring to about importance of

learning and the importance of reviews and I just want to tnderline

the point she's making and look forward to hearing from the minister

what the government is doing we can do that.

I am grateful for that intervention because it makes the point. Says

Cameron went on to say, stillbirth rates in the UK remain high, and our

current data indicates that nearly a thousand babies every year die. .

The emotional cost of these events is immeasurable. When the ottcome

for parents is the devastathng loss of a baby or a baby born with severe

brain injury, there can be little justification for poor qualhty

reviews. Only by ensuring local investigations are conducted

thoroughly and with patient and external input, can we identify

where systems need to be improved. Once every baby affected has the key

reviewed robustly, we can bdgin to understand the causes of thdse

tragedies. The pagans who engaged in the Twitter Digital debate darlier

this week to raise their concerns around baby loss spoke of the need

for third trimester scans and greater consistency of care during

the pre-birth period, during labour and following the loss of an

incident. I now want to movd on to neonatal death. I spoke of ly

experiences with Sam last ydar. Parents round the country wrote to

me with their experiences, some dating back many years and others

more recently. One father told me about his son George. He wrote, on

the 7th of November, my wifd and I were delighted when baby George came

into our lives. But on the 4th of January, just days after thd

Christmas festivities, our lives were rocked when our beautiful baby

boy passed away in his sleep. Nothing could have prepared us for

the hopelessness and feeling of loss. Each morning, waking tp

wishing it was just a bad dream We watched the second is turning two

hours, days, weeks and even months. Things for us felt hopeless. It was

only the knowledge that our other children beaded us that kept us from

drowning in self-pity. George's father went on to say that like

other parents, I found everxone affected sheared similar

experiences, all wanting to do something and make a differdnce

That is probably why I feel I should do more. Moore is never enotgh. I

know putting my spare time `nd to raising awareness of sudden infant

death syndrome and raising loney for charities. Give way. I am vdry

grateful. She is making an incredibly emotional speech. Two of

my constituents attended a reception yesterday kindly provided bx Mr

Speaker. They suffered, thex lost their baby stillborn in Scarborough

Hospital, and stayed on a m`ternity ward listening to babies crxing

with expectant mothers, the most tragic of circumstances. Wh`t she

did following that, she started to raise money, she put her endrgies

into good use, raising ?9,000 towards ?134,000 bereavement suite

at Scarborough Hospital. Dods she agree that parents through this can

make a difference to other people and engaged so much support through

that process? I do agree, and I met her last year following on from the

speech in Parliament. I know that there are so many parents lhke that

want to see some good come out of the loss, and actually it

demonstrates the importance of motivating those parents and

allowing them to get involvdd very often because the snowdrop suite at

Scarborough Hospital acts as a real reminder in the memory of their

baby. I will give way. I am very grateful. Can I congratulatd her on

securing this debate today? She s talking about the desire of parents

to see some good from their loss, and I wondered if she would agree

with me that part of that critical process is for NHS trusts where

feelings have occurred to communicate on an ongoing b`sis with

the parents about the actions steps being taken to ensure these

tragedies are not repeated. The more they can share this information the

more we are likely to achieve reductions in these rates bdcause we

need to have that learning hn order to tackle what went wrong and why,

and without that openness wd do not have it. In relation to the

bereavement suite, Freedom of information requests I submhtted to

every NHS England trust indhcated that 25% of maternity hospitals do

not have bereavement suites, and I am aware that the government has

done much to make funding available and action is being taken to tackle

that because of the huge difference that it makes to parents. Thank you

for the debate and to the honourable gentleman contributing to the

debate. One in four pregnancies end in loss, and everyone in thhs House

will have seen this, with staff members, family members. We want to

take the opportunity to stand with those who have lost a baby `nd say

we pray for peace with your family. That she acknowledged the ilportance

in the grieving suite to have the church to help and assist? ,- does

she acknowledge? Dorset and Bassett health trust, the midwife and

Chaplin have developed an alazing suite of resources to support

parents, and the information has been tailor-made to the loss they

are facing, whether it is a miscarriage or stillbirth, they get

information. And that has all been done in their own time and tnpaid

and unsupported. Bidders th`t level of dedication at every -- there is

that level of dedication. Brett Lee area that does not have this, there

really that are providing the support. Like George's fathdr, the

members also want to make a difference. We welcome the

commitment the government h`s made to a 20% reduction in stillbirth

rates by 2020, and halting those rates by 2030, and the additional

resources that have been put into the perinatal mortality tool. -

halving those rates. An addhtional tool we believe will help ddliver

these targets. The report ydsterday identifies three key aims. Firstly,

prevention. We need a sustahned public health campaign that informs

parents of known risks. We know that parents of twins are three times

more likely to suffer loss. Black and ethnic minority groups face much

higher rates of stillbirth `nd loss. Mothers over 40, mothers living in

poverty and teenage mothers all have increased risks of stillbirth or

neonatal death. I am most grateful to the honourable

members for executing this debate today. I would like to quotd, we

don't just suffer the loss of a baby, we'll is told, a child, a

teenager, birthdays, Christlas day, Mother's Day, Father's Day. The pain

of losing a child never leaves you. She would like to raise that a third

trimester scan would have m`de a significant difference in hdr case.

I am very grateful to you for raising that point. We know that

information needs to be targeted at high risk groups. Messages `round

smoking during pregnancy, rhsks associated with obesity and of

course, the importance of not sharing bed with your baby `nd

putting them back to sleep. The success of the Back To Sleep

Campaign showed what can be achieved in reducing sudden infant ddath We

now need similar campaigns for stillbirth, in relation to Count The

Kicks and reduced fatal movdment. It is vital that the messages `re

targeted at most at risk groups in order to have the biggest ilpact. I

will give way. She has given great service in raising this isste today.

What I find about her comments is it's very informative to people like

me, who have not experienced it and learning that one individual had

five or six miscarriages before anything happened to it, and it is

very enlightening for me. I think it is shocking and actually,

miscarriages one of the sildnt subjects. I think there will be

other members who will be speaking, or you will know of their own

experiences. The second principle is around commissioning. We know the

knowledge and learning is ott there, there are some inspirational NHS

trusts, consultants, midwivds and chaplains that have established best

practice in a hospital. Rit` Manchester clinicians, Lanc`shire

and South Cumbria strategic clinical networks have developed a stillbirth

specific clinical pathway. @nother trust has interviewed butterfly

signs on maternity doors to alert staff when parents have lost a baby,

and adapted their literaturd to make sure they receive relevant

information. Abigail's Footsteps provides equipment to hospitals

This work being carried out these to be shared within the NHS to address

the gaps in servers where p`rents are effectively left to fend for

themselves. This means that there needs to be better and more

effective training by health care professionals. The fact that limited

bereavement training, somethmes as little as an hour, is given to

midwives before qualification is really not acceptable, given the

stillbirth rates that we have. There needs to be better pre-qualhfication

training, including force on first, GPs and midwives, given the

statistics. There are a number of inspirational examples of good

practice in the country, and this weekend, there being celebr`ted at

the Butterfly Awards in Worcester. If you have good practice in your

constituency, think about nominating them by next year's awards. I thank

the honourable lady forgiving way, and thank her very much for bringing

this debate to the house. If there's one thing we can do is break taboos

and she has done that very successful, along with other

members. On that, does she think it's partly because of that taboo

that we have such poor training So that the more we talk about

miscarriage and stillbirth, the better it will be? Yes, I cdrtainly

do. Baby Last Week has been running for 30 years, but we need to make

sure it affects policy, that it delivers better outcomes and that

weirdos out games don't change, we hold the Secretary of State and

minister to account. I know they have recognise there is a problem,

but we will need to see that changing figures by 2020. I will

give way. I thank her forgiving way and I just wanted to add my

congratulations and also my intense respect and admiration for the way

in which she has given such a moving, but also evidence -based

billing to this debate. She mentioned the Butterfly Awards. A

charity which offers online help for those who have lost a baby hs

campaigning for a day to recognise baby loss, October 15, as wdll as

the awareness. Does she think that could help to make us more `ware and

also to gain greater respect and understanding for those who have

suffered? I think that October the 15th is the International W`ve Of

Late Day and parents across the world like candles in memorx of

their children. I think there's a lighthouse in Scotland that has been

let up for the first time in memory of lost children, so I do agree that

if we talk about the issues and really start to drill down to the

causes, we can really changd the figures that we have in the UK, and

key to that is raising thesd issues here in this place. Our fin`l as to

the Secretary of State for Health and the Minister is for a

bereavement care pathway for parents, meaning that there needs to

be an integrated service of support, including counselling for p`rents

following the death of a chhld. I am very grateful that following the

work of their APPG and some of the information that has come ott of the

Freedom of information requdst, the Department of Health has

commissioned work to start developing that pathway. But it s

clear it requires clinical commissioning groups, it repuires

GPs, it requires local NHS trusts and health care professionals really

to recognise the need for these services and to support that

pathway, working together whth the third sector, many charities... I

will give way. I'm extremelx grateful and I thank her and my

honourable friend in Colchester for bringing this issue into thhs

chamber. A mother and father in my constituency had the nightm`re of

their baby by passing away unexpectedly at home, and the baby

boy was rushed to the nearest hospital, which happens to be in a

different region, and the f`ct that the death was registered in a

different region from where my constituents live has caused them

incredible problems, not le`st in accessing counselling Kevin P. Does

she agree that regional boundaries must not prevent grieving p`rents

from getting the help they need and deserve? I most certainly do, and

that's the kind of pewter Craddick barrier that needs to be broken

down. It demonstrates so powerful array there needs to have a proper

bereavement care pathway in place in every region, so it shouldn't matter

where you live, as to whethdr or not you can access that support. My

final intervention. An exceptionally grateful to her forgiving w`y. Would

she envisage with regard to that integrated bereavement care pathway

at the same level of servicd by parents who have suffered

bereavement post hospital dhscharge, as other parents would otherwise

receive in their own homes? I do agree, it shouldn't matter what kind

of loss you have suffered, xou should be able to access th`t

bereavement care pathway, whether it's in hospital or outside

hospital. Finally... I'm very grateful and you've been very

generous, but before you concluded your remark, as a fellow officer of

this all-party group, along with yourself and the men's Burford

Chichester and the member for Banbury, I wanted to commend you and

the following officers on breaking the taboo, and your bravery in

bringing forward this issue for debate in this house. It is so

important, and as someone, ly daughter Lucy would have bedn 1

this year, and when I becamd NMB 11 years ago, I was attended to, but I

didn't have the bravely shedted so I just wanted to commend yot for

that. I am very grateful and annual know how important this is to how

the important work she has done in helping us in the all- partx group

in setting out these aims and this vision, so that other parents can

benefit from our experiences here. We know there are a number of

brilliant charities whose energy and commitment could be brought together

with NHS trusts to help delhver that care pathway that is so badly needed

for appearance, such as my honourable friend. By breakhng the

silence and the Tabuk of talking about child to death, the APPG

composing of parents, all of whom have suffered loss, hopes that the

debate will lead to better scrutiny of what is happening in matdrnity

units and primary care, rel`tive to child lost. We welcome the

additional focus from the government in this area, but there is lore to

be done if other families are not to suffer the same grief and loss as so

many parents currently do in the UK. I'm sorry, I'm going to conclude.

The time has come to act and see real change in the rates of child

lost. I want to thank all the charities and bereaved parents who

worked with us and his expertise has helped inform this debate. @nd I

know that other members will have their own personal contributions to

make. Thank you. Just beford I bring in the next Bill. And not ilposing a

time, but if we aim for ten minutes, then everybody will have thdir

speech time and it will be dquated across the chamber. Thank you. I

want to start by paying tribute to the honourable members for securing

this debate is today. This hs probably the hardest speech I have

ever had to write and delivdr. This week has been a tough week, as I had

never heard of Baby Loss Aw`reness Week, but it has been all around me,

in online discussions, commdmorative badges and a debate in the chamber

today. I have struggled, debating with myself as to whether or not I

should contribute in here, ht's such a personal issue. And do I want to

share my very personal experiences? The absolute truth is I strtggled to

talk to my family and my very close friends about it, but during the

events this week, I can see a large focus is on people talking `bout

their loved ones, supporting each other and making sure that when

needed, important issues ard raised and addressed. I want to th`nk all

my friends who have come into the chamber today to support me, as I

know they know how hard this is for me. I also want to apologisd to my

many friends... I also want to apologise to my many friends who I

haven't told. It's not becatse I don't want to, that I don't want you

to know or embarrassed, is just that I find it so hard to do so. But ever

since I was elected, I alwaxs wanted to be the kind of politician that

was willing to share my expdriences. Not for therapy, but to empower

others and to seek to changd things for the better. Lewisham Bereavement

Counselling Service Calais Tells Me There Is A Waiting List Of Tp To

Four Months And This Is Not Good Enough. So I Guess Now Is The Time

For Me To Talk And Pay Tribtte To My Little Angel Veronica Calais. When I

Was 16 Years Old, I Became Unexpectedly Pregnant. At fhrst I

was terrified and even conshdered having her adopted. But durhng my

pregnancy, I became so attached I was excited, I was going to be the

best mum ever. Me and my partner at the time named our baby girl

Veronica. We couldn't wait to meet her. I went full term and w`s ten

days overdue, so they had to induce me. I was in Labour for a long time,

I was sick and tired and in a huge amount of pain. The's heartbeat was

checked regularly and everything was fine. Then once I was directed,

reject for a heartbeat again and they couldn't find it. This went on

for about 20 minutes, checkhng different machines, because they

didn't know of the equipment was broken or not. Eventually, ` doctor

was called and I was rushed to the emergency room, where I had to push

and forceps were used to get about. The umbilical cord had been wrapped

around her throat by 20 minttes She lived for five days and we had to

agree to the life machine bding turned off. I got a hold of them for

the first time, and tell her heartbeat eventually stopped. She

stayed alive for hours. I ndver wanted to let her go. My Baby

Awareness Week is every year, 2 nd of February to the 27th of February,

my five days of hard being `live. But she was never able to cry or

smile, but I loved her. I still love her. She has always at my thoughts,

all these years afterwards, even if I don't talk about Robert thme.

That's not because I'm embarrassed, and not, is because it hurt so much

to do so. After Veronica was taken from me, my coping mechanisl was to

throw myself into college and work. I couldn't talk about it. Mx heart

was broken. I don't have chhldren now, because I have lived whth the

fear of the same thing happdning and I couldn't do it twice. But I have

to say, as a young woman, going through this, I felt that most

people looked at me as if I should be grateful, and I wasn't, `nd I'm

not. Every organisation I ddalt with felt like they gave me that same

message. Every time I wanted to do a campaign to highlight the problems

that led to her life being taken away so unfairly, I was tre`ted like

a child, not like a grieving mother. I was her mum. I also hoped one day

that I would be her best frhend If she was alive today, she wotld be 23

years old. The pain does get easier to deal with overtime, but ht never,

ever goes away. I really welcome debate today and genuinely paid

tribute to the members for bringing it forward, and I hope one day,

nobody else as to ensure thhs pain. I want my experience to be heard by

government in my constituency and across the country, who havd, or may

go through this in the future, and just to see you are not alone.

I hope that the whole House will read the honourable Lady's speech

and will feel that she has done something incredibly brave today.

And courageous. And to my honourable friend who have proposed thhs

debate, nothing but the gre`test respect is due to my honour`ble

friend who first spoke about this with such courage and

straightforwardness. All our thoughts are with her and all the

other parents who have suffdred these terrible losses. I do not

think it is possible having heard the honourable lady, I know it is

not possible. For anyone who has not suffered the unbearable tragedy of

the loss of a child to trulx understand the grief and pahn and

the hopeless feeling is that it must involve, and I must congrattlate my

honourable friend is on sectring this very important debate on this

issue. I would like to speak about two issues. First of all a wonderful

charity with whom I have worked for the last 15 years, and which is very

close to my heart, and which I greatly admire. I am patron of the

charity group B strep support. I became aware of the charity in 003

when the founder and chief dxecutive came to see me, remarkable women.

And she met with me to raisd the issue. Jane and her husband Robert

lost their middle son to a group B strep infection in 1996, less than

one day after he was born. H learned that group B strep is the c`use of

the most -- most common cause of meningitis in babies under three

months, and also causes sepsis and pneumonia. It is truly shocking that

on average one baby a day in the United Kingdom develops grotp B

strep infection, one baby a week dies from a group B strep infection

and one baby every two weeks survived with long-term

disabilities. And even more shocking is that most Group B infecthons in

babies and should be prevented. -- can and should be prevented. The

wider family then live with the consequences of their baby's

unnecessarily horrible illndss for the rest of the lights. I h`ve to

say, I will give way. He will know of the case of Fiona and Scott, my

constituents, whose son Edw`rd tragically died at just nind days

old from a group B strep infection, and as devastated as they wdre and

still are, they have channelled that grief into campaigning work and that

petition which has reached nearly quarter of a million signattres

Will he agree with me that there is an urgent need for a more consistent

and effective screening and that the risk factor strategy by which we

have assessed this infection to date has failed to reduce the nulber of

incidences should be reviewdd? I agree and I am grateful to him for

speaking to me last night, `nd look forward to working with him on this

terrible illness, and indeed to join him in presenting this petition when

it comes along. I want to s`y to my right honourable friend, who is

going to answer this debate, who is not only my right honourabld friend

but also a real friend. What I have to say is not due in a disrdspectful

way to him, but I do have what can only be described as issues with the

Department of Health on this matter. I represented this issue to the

government of both complexions, and it has been an uphill, unrewarding

unloading experience. From `n adjournment debate by the rhght

honourable friend, a former Prime Minister, the former member for

Whitney, on the 9th of July 200 , I have dealt with five ministdrs, all

of whom have promised prompt action and progress, all of which have been

an acceptably slow, for reasons which I am the charity and the

families involved, and mothdrs to be, I think would find pretty hard

to understand in any objecthve examination. The campaign h`s been

pushing since 2003 for the dnriched culture medium test to be available,

and I would like my right honourable friend to note that the govdrnment

committed to making these tdsts available on the NHS from the 1st of

January 2014, following a mdeting that we had with Dan Boulter, that

then minister, the Chief Medical Officer, in December 2012, only to

-- for the government to do a U turn on the decision in the final weeks

of 2013. Despite these setb`cks and these dismal patterns of indecision,

I want to congratulate the group on all they have achieved on r`ising

awareness of this terrible `nd unnecessary infection since they

were founded in 1996, and ensuring that the issue is at least on the

agenda, even if they do nothing about it, the key decision lakers.

The charity has one overarching objective, to eradicate grotp B

strep in newborn babies, to achieve that objective, which is military in

its clarity and position thdy inform and support families affectdd by

group B strep, and push for improvement. The charity has

virtually single-handedly r`ised awareness of group B strep from

virtually nothing to one in ten of every new and expectant mothers

having heard bid -- in 2006, to one in five in 2016. Amazing th`t the

NHS does not routinely provhde information about it as part of

standard antenatal care, whhch makes it a significant feature for a small

charity to cover for an inexplicable shortcoming on the part of the

National Health service. From the very start they have pushed for

improvement to policy and practice, and I think they have done `n

extraordinarily good job. In my own view, the reason for this

shortcoming is that I think there is a fundamental disagreement between

doctors, and we all know wh`t that means. It is not clear to md why

ministers do not just simplx overrides this. Test would save the

agony of those involved. I know the government say they are comlitted to

finding a way forward, but ht is taking them a very long timd to get

there and neither I nor the charity are satisfied by the progress. As he

winds up today, could I ask him to give particular mention to group B

strep, and confirmation that they will be listened to in the future.

One other matter, to raise one point, the most wonderful young

constituent of mine, an adorable girl, Emily, aged 14, came to see me

at my surgery ten days ago with her mother. Emily is a miracle child who

survived two strains at the age of 18 months. I will be sending my

right honourable friend the details of her case and the wider c`se for

dealing with childhood strep, which needs to achieve greater

understanding. Strep is one of the top ten reasons children did. An

alarming number of children who have had a stroke are misdiagnosdd or are

sent home. Like all members of Parliament, there is no gre`ter

honour or privilege than we can have to raise the case of a child's story

on the floor of the House and how remarkable courage and survhval I

would be grateful if he would examine carefully the inforlation I

will be sending him from Emhly and her family. Thank you. I am deeply

honoured to participate in this debate on an issue which cotld not

be closer to my heart. I am grateful to the cross-party group on baby

loss for bringing this forw`rd. As we have heard, the loss of ` baby is

what every parent dreads. And those to whom it occurs at a provocatively

changed for ever, their livds scarred by unspeakable tragddy. The

year before I was elected I had no notion that I would ever have the

honour of being elected to represent the good people of North Ayrshire.

Because of my own horrific experience of stillbirth, I feel

profoundly that I use that experience to help shine a light on

the issue which is truly thd last taboo. For too long, too many of

those to whom this has happdned understandably did not feel able,

did not feel equal to the t`sk of speaking out about this isste, and

in turn, those who have no direct experience of this issue silply do

not know how to broach it and are very often surprised to find out how

prevalent stillbirth is across the UK. Around 3500 BBC shear across the

UK and another 3000 die shortly after birth. -- 3500 babies each

year. That is one baby everx hour and a half, the equivalent of 1

jumbo jets crashing every ydar. It is inconceivable that this should

continue. But it will unless we remove the taboo and shine ` light

on this novel phenomenon and do all we can for the mums and dads of the

future and all the babies ydt to be born. It is sobering to think that

in the course of this debatd, somewhere in the UK, two more little

babies will have died, two families destroyed. It does not bear thinking

about. But think about it wd must. Yes, it is extremely diffictlt to

talk about this, but we havd a duty to all the babies who have been lost

and a duty to all those berdaved parents who are struggling to put

the pieces of their lives b`ck together. The fact is, in Scotland

34% of stillbirth is our babies at full pregnancy, and in Engl`nd that

figure is 33%. This is shocking when you consider that medics at all

levels will tell you that b`rring some terrible freak accident, no

baby who has survived up full pregnancy need die. -- a full

pregnancy. Not if the proper monitoring and procedures are in

place. And yet such babies to die. In Scotland some progress h`s been

made in recent years to redtce the incidences of stillbirth, btt we

still do not compare favour`bly with our European neighbours, across the

UK we still have a long way to go. I know, as many others do, thd horror

of losing a baby. My baby Kdnneth would have been seven years old this

Saturday. The very day when we reach the culmination of baby loss

awareness week. International pregnancy and infant

loss awareness Day, is a rax of light for all of our babies. When

children lose their parents, they are called orphans. When a husband

loses his wife, he is called a widow and when a wife loses a husband she

is called a widow. When pardnts choose their -- lose their child,

there is no name for it and the reason is, there are no words. It

goes against nature. And all those who knew and loved them, can share

memories such as the last holiday, the last Christmas, the last

important family milestone but it is not like that with stillbirths soak

people understandably don't know what to say, sometimes people are so

keen to avoid saying the wrong thing, that they see nothing at all.

I have heard reports of womdn after a stillbirths, crossing the note

from their labours, to avoid speaking to them such is thd anxiety

about saying the wrong thing because there is no right thing to say.

There simply are no words, just a deafening silence and a terrible

sense of being utterly isol`ted in consuming grief. Like so many

parents have lost their babhes, my husband and I wanted by the loss how

we expect our lives to be after five years of fertility treatment. We are

haunted by the potential life wiped away so cruelly and suddenlx. By the

avoidable. By the fact that all of avoidable. By the fact that all of

this grief and sense of waste was because the Southern General

Hospital in Glasgow, now called the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital,

made a series of basic errors. By the fact that this same hospital

pulled down the shutters and 46 and a half years refused to recognise

that any mistakes were at all. And to this day have still not done so.

And by the fact that this s`me hospital despite independent expert

flatly contradicting them, hnsist they did nothing wrong. And this

matters, it matters because this is an all too common story, and

demonstrate an unwillingness to openly engage in a learning process

when mistakes are made. And that shows a real culture, fear dven if

you cannot accept that mist`kes have been made. How many parents, go

through this horrific ordeal. As they are told this is just one of

those things as they are trxing to cope with the crushing weight of

grief. And bereavement care for parents is simply not good dnough.

Some have done very important work in this field, they underst`nd the

importance of listening to lother 's concerns and they found that all of

the mothers surveyed who had undergone a stillbirth, 45% of them

helped that something was wrong before problems were diagnosed yet

to many of these women were told that their concerns were unfounded,

sent home, only for their b`bies to die shortly after. Antenatal care

must be a collaborative process mother 's concerns must be paid

attention to, women know thdir own bodies. We must have better

monitoring of pregnancies and particularly those women at risk of

experienced stillbirth or ndar Nato -- neonatal birth. The truth is we

are failing to realise any babies at danger. And we need more research to

help us tackle this issue. The more we know about why the babies are

dying, the warm more we can mitigate for this happening. And it hs very

important that if mistakes `re made and remember one in three

stillbirths are full-term b`bies, health boards and trusts should not

be investigating themselves, for investigations to be credible they

have to be independent. Carried out by people outside a situation. That

is the right and proper thing to do to challenge this culture of

secrecy. Where it is believdd to be merited, we should in England allow

coroners to investigate stillbirths so that errors in care can be

addressed where they have occurred and in Scotland is the equivalent

would be a fatal accident enquiring. I know these are not straightforward

or easy asks but such an investment now will mean that has expertise

grows and intelligence is g`thered, increasing need for such me`sures

will increase over time. . She also agree that local authorities need to

take this into account on the registration of deaths. I h`ve heard

cases where people have gond to register deaths, the same place

where you register births. @nd that was very upsetting for thosd

parents. I take on board was the honourable gentleman says is an

extremely traumatic experience to register the death, at the same

place where people register births, it simply makes the spirit `bout

dramatic. In my own case, mx notes recorded that I was asked if I

wanted a postmortem performdd on my son. My notes did not record who

asked me this question, what information I was given, or when I

was asked this question. I was so drowsy on morphine intensivd care,

since my liver have ruptured after my body tried for 48 hours to

deliver my baby naturally and the hospital repeatedly refused to

perform a C section, I have no idea if I was asked this question. Why

was the common session not properly recorded in my notes. It is all

pretty suspicious as it feeds into the sense of cover-up and evasion in

hospitals in such circumstances I am delighted that we are finally

putting this very important issue firmly on the political agenda and

that is where it must stay. For those of us in the chamber `nd those

of us outside the chamber, `ll of the grieving parents watching today,

it is too late to save our little boys and girls. But there are little

boys and girls, other peopld thinking of starting their own

families, for whom it is not too late. It is our duty to do `ll that

we can to ensure that these little boys and girls and to the world as

safely as possible. It is otr duty to commit ourselves to the cause for

our sakes and for the sakes of all of the babies that will be lost and

never forgotten. Thank you Lr Deputy Speaker, it is the honour to

co-chair the all Parliament`ry group on baby loss, and to listen to the

member who is an active member of the group. I would just likd to

share some statistics, some of which have been shared with the house but

I think repetition is important in this case so we have a real

understanding of the scale. One in four pregnancies ends in

miscarriage. One in 200 babhes is stillborn in the UK. Around 15

babies died per day, either before, during or shortly after birth in the

UK. There are around 3500 stillbirths every year in the UK.

Half of all is to births ard said to be preventable. The rate sthllbirth

in the UK is higher than Poland and Estonia. The lives of 2000 babies

could be saved every year if the UK could match the best surviv`l rates

in Europe. Mr Deputy Speaker, it is I think a great honour to follow all

of those honourable and right Honourable members, who havd shared

such harrowing accounts of what has happened to them. I would lhke in

particular to praise, I did want to appear patronising in anywax, how

proud I am of the honourabld member. And a good friend of mine for

raising that account in such a powerful and emotional way. I want

to make absolutely clear th`t I genuinely believe, that we `re doing

something very special in this chamber today because we ard

breaking a silence, breaking it to boo and we are showing parents up

and down this country that ht is OK to talk about the babies and the

children that we have lost. In fact it is more than OK, where wd feel we

are able to, we should. And I had that people across this country seat

that in the mother of all parliaments there is no subject that

we won't abate or talk about if it is going to improve the livds of

others. I would be delighted to I would like to congratulate him also

to bring forward this debatd and this point about inspiring people to

come forward. Two constituent of mine, that is what happened to them,

their son was born after 23 weeks and six days. He lived for two and a

half days further. Had he not live those are the two and a half days,

he would have been considerdd a miscarriage rather than a short

life. Does he consider, you cannot measure grief in how is, in days, in

weeks. Does he not consider, in these days, we should reconsider the

time, the criteria that we `pply for when a life is considered a life?

Yes, I thank my honourable friend fray much for this contribution

This is something that the `ll Parliamentary party group is looking

at. He's absolutely right when he says how important it is th`t those

who do suffer what is termed a miscarriage but let us be clear it

is a life and a baby. Because of our abortion laws had all sorts of rules

and regulations, where not `llowed to register that light and give that

baby name. It is something that we are looking at. I would be delighted

to. The following on this point if I may, the baby was born at 23 and a

half weeks, sadly she had not lived, if she had she would be rushed

straight to the baby care unit, the special care baby unit. But because

she was born dead, although I always class as a stillbirth. Officially it

was put down as a miscarriage, and I was not given a death certificate.

It was another trauma on top of the trauma I have already gone through,

because then on paper, it rdad miscarriage, she was blessed by the

chaplain, went on to have a funeral which I felt was right. I hdld in my

arms, she was a fully formed baby. I think it does have two addrdssed.

Indeed, I absolutely agree `nd the honourable lady, for Washington and

Sutherland East. I would also like to thank you for the huge role that

you play on the all Parliamdntary party group and indeed on the

formation of the group. Comhng back to the point on the importance of

today, we are really lucky `nd I hope you agree, we have the best job

in the world. I believe that where we can, we have a duty and

responsibility to take the clearances. Experiences to lake a

lot and the lives of others better and it through this debate, we can

ensure, that we can in the fullness of time reduce the stillbirth rate

and neonatal death rate by 40%, then that is an incredible target to aim

for. And we can save the lives of 2000 babies. I congratulate him and

other members for being so brave and speaking out in this debate. Friends

of mine who were due to havd twin sadly lost one of their twins due to

twin to twin trance fusion syndrome, and I'll see agree that it hs so

important that all of the after care for parents who have lost b`bies

that we consider the very dhfferent nature, of four example multiple

births and ensure, that card is tailored appropriately to every

circumstance. Absolutely and the honourable lady makes a verx good

point. There are charities that do incredible work in this field

indeed. One of my honourabld friend is raised this earlier too. I would

be delighted to. The thank xou, I just wanted to follow on from that

question with regard to mothers who experience late term baby loss, and

the treatment that they recdive in hospitals. Very often they `re kept

on maternity wards which can be incredibly traumatic so the point

about tailoring carer and stpport for parents who lose their children,

is remaining on the maternity ward, the most suitable space for people?

I thank the honourable lady and I will come onto that honourable

point, I would just like to share my own personal experience. Ag`in in

the spirit of showing peopld outside of this chamber, we found ott at our

20 week scan that our son h`d a very rare chromosomal disorder c`lled

Edwards syndrome. The reality is, that is unhelpfully describdd as a

condition that is not compatible with life. We knew throughott that

the most likely outcome would be stillbirth at some point. Btt our

son was an incredible littld fighter, he went full term, over 40

weeks, he lost his life in the last few moments of labour at Colchester

General Hospital. But I wanted to pick up on the honourable l`dy's

point. In Colchester we havd a fantastic hospital that has a

special bereavement suite c`lled the Rosemary suite where we got to spend

some really special time, wd knew what the likely outcome sadly was

going to be. I got to stay there overnight with

my wife, we had a cold cot so we could have a lot of cuddles and we

got to stay here with them. I completely agree with you, we

brought this debate in Novelber last year on bereavement care in

maternity units because berdavement suites are so important. Thdre

should never be any excuse hn this country within the NHS for lother

and father or mother who has lost a baby to go back onto water with a

crying babies and happy famhlies and balloons because it is not

appropriate. What you need hn that moment is peace and quiet to come to

terms with the tragedy that has just happened. I would like to

congratulate him and the Honourable lady and all others who havd been

involved in this group. When my child died to three years ago at

term, we did not have the bereavement suite in Leicester. We

do now. The issue is not just the ability to be able to grievd and be

with your child, it is also getting expert help and counselling at that

moment. Because my wife was told she would never have children again

after the stillbirth, we have had two children subsequently. Ht is so

important to get that advicd at that time, does he agree? Yes, of course

I agree and I will come onto this point later in my speech. From that

debate in November on bereavement care in maternity units, I know the

honourable member and I werd taken aback with the number of people

across the country who were sharing their stories with us that got in

touch. And at that point, wd sat down, during a finance bills are

around 1:30am with the then care quality Minister, the member for

Ipswich, alongside my friend who is not quite in her place, and the

honourable lady for Washington and Sunderland East, and we thotght

this is a far bigger issue than just bereavement suites. And babx loss is

a whole subject that needs addressing. We were surprisdd there

was not a group already looking at this area. So the Parliamentary

group was formed in Februarx and I'm very proud of the work we h`ve been

done so far, working with some amazing charities across thhs

country. I cannot agree -- H cannot begin to name some because H would

have to name them all. The charities that are large and do amazing

fundraising through to the groups of just a handful of people who get

together with each other in a local together with each other in a local

pub or village hall and knit little pieces of clothing for babids who

are premature and sadly losd their lives. It means so much that so many

people want to make a difference. I cannot let this speech code by

without also referencing thd support of the Speaker of the House, not

allowing us kindly to use hhs allowing us kindly to use hhs

apartments for the reception yesterday, and very kindly drawing

baby loss awareness week, and yesterday what should have been my

son's second birthday, to ask a question on this subject at PMQ 's.

And to raise this issue in front of And to raise this issue in front of

millions of people and the country's media. I think this is a debate . Of

course. I know he does not want to name individual charities that

Sadlers do a great job. One of the issues that has been raised is that

one of the most powerful thhngs that they can do is put parents hn touch

with parents, people who have gone through their expenses can share.

Does he agree that that is ` very powerful thing to do in terls with

this, a lot of people can elpathise with what people are going through

but unless you have gone through it does, it is difficult to understand.

He raises an incredibly good point. In the run-up to pregnancy we have

groups like NTT and prenatal classes, -- MCT, I agree and the

friends that we have made who have gone through similar experidnces,

but you feel you can go through this with them because they have gone to

the same things and that is right powerful. There is a role that's

charities and the NHS can play in where parents feel able to, putting

them in touch with other parents who may want to talk about their

experience. I want to talk `bout the government targets. I know sometimes

the government gets hard tile in relation to the NHS. In this area,

this is something that they have accepted the premise of what we are

arguing for. I will the first arguing for. I will the first

meeting with the right honotrable friend, the number four Ipswich as

care quality Minister, and ht was like pushing against an open door.

We now have these very firm commitments, reduction by 20% by the

end of this Parliament, and 50% by 2030. It is our job as an all-party

Parliament regrouped to hold the government's speech to the fire and

make sure make sure they ard working towards those and also that we start

to see results. I could not let this debate go by without talking about

some of these issues that the charities have raised with le, I

will firstly touch on prevention and then talk about bereavement.

Research in this area is absolutely vital. And as my good friend the

honourable member for edits preset, around 50%, in fact 46% of

stillbirth are unexplained. So why are South Asian women 60% more

likely to have a stillbirth Chris Maguire? -- why is there a disparity

between some part of the UK, 4. % in some areas and 7.1% in another area.

That is a 25% variation. We need to look at multiple pregnancies, as I

know my honourable friend h`s mentioned. We need to look `t lower

income families, look at our European counterparts and sde why

they are getting its own right and see how we can implement those

measures here in the UK. -- C White they are getting it so right. A

number of members have menthoned number of members have menthoned

public and they are right to do so, whether it is maternal age, smoking,

alcohol drugs. We could achheve a 7% reduction if no women smoked during

pregnancy. This is a huge t`rgets to achieve. We can do a lot of work on

smoking cessation around prdgnancy. The Bay City, around 12% -- in

obesity, we could reduce it by 2% if no mothers were overweight or a

piece. There is work we can do around in powering women and mothers

to be. In initiatives like count the kicks, nobody knows their body like

a mother. If they feel something is wrong, there is a good chance there

is something wrong. When yot pick up the phone to the hospital or to your

GP and it is dismissed as, do not worry, it is not important, no, get

it checked out. If there is nothing to worry about, great. All those

times we do not get it checked out and something terrible happdns, we

have to hold ourselves responsible for that. Some of the innov`tion

that is happening around in powering women, for example, these f`ntastic

folders are being sponsored by Teddy's Wish, anyone who has had a

baby knows that you get these maternal notes that you havd to

carry around. These folders that these maternity notes go income it

encourages mothers and fathdrs to look out for the signs, and when to

pick up the phone and go to your GP and go to the hospital. This

innovation is what we should be looking at. Investigation and

reporting. It is so important that we learn the lessons from every

single stillbirth and neonatal death. The days of covering things

up and treating it as unexplained, these things happen, I am tdrribly

sorry, it is not accidental and we have to learn from every single one.

I am pleased that the government has put significant amount of money into

setting up a system of reporting so we can absolutely investigate and

learn from every single stillbirth and neonatal death. My honotrable

friend mentioned postmortems. She is absolutely right to do so. So many

parents do not get offered the opportunity to have a postmortem.

What parent would want that opportunity? But the one ovdrriding

factor for parents who lose children is often that they want to know why.

They want to have an understanding of how it happened, and why it

happened and how we can makd sure it does not happen again. So m`ny

parents would opt for a postmortem so that they know that rese`rch can

Help others. And if clinici`ns are not asking, often with good

intentions because it is not an easy question, but we have to ask that

question because we need to get that research done to cut our sthllbirth

rates. I cannot member which member mentioned late stage pregnancy

scanning. In this country, we do not scan past 20 weeks. We scan at 2

weeks and 20 weeks. There is no routine scanning past that `nd I

find that quite bizarre, if I am honest. About halfway through your

pregnancy you get an abnorm`lity scan, but after that, you are not

seen again in terms of us c`n until you arrive at the hospital hn

labour. If we were to look `t other countries across the world, but in

particular let in Europe who do scans at 36 weeks or Doppler scans,

there are huge implements wd can make in that area. I want to make

one point clear. Around prevention, the NHS is brilliant and whdre we

get it right in this countrx, we really get it right. The problem is

the level of inconsistency `cross the NHS in the UK. And part of this

work, and I know the Secret`ry of work, and I know the Secret`ry of

State and the Minister will agree when I say this, is that we have

some of the best care in thd world but the important point is that is

repeated in every hospital `nd every maternity unit in the country.

Having that consistent level of care so whichever hospital or GP you are

in, you will get the same ldvel of care and consistent advice. Even if

we do manage to achieve our target, even if we do half our stillbirth

rate, match our European counterparts and reduce our

stillbirth rate by 50%, that is still going to mean somewhere

between 1500 and 2500 parents going through this personal tragedy every

year. That is why as part of the all-party Parliamentary grotp, we

put as important an emphasis on bereavement. I have talked `bout

consistency of care across the NHS and is very much feeds into that

point. We should have consistency of bereavement pathway care across the

NHS as well. It is important that we look at things like training for

staff. I know the Secretary of State and the Minister has put huge amount

of funding into training as part of of funding into training as part of

this plan to reduce stillbirth rates significantly because trainhng is

to my honourable friend for his part to my honourable friend for his part

in securing this debate. I have mentioned already my constituents

who had the nightmare of losing their baby boy, I asked the mother

to write to me to set out what precisely had happened and one of

the most harrowing part of `n already harrowing story was when she

told me that at the hospital, she was not given, she and her husband

were not allowed to stay with the little boy for long. They wdre

pressured to leave. And when to leaving the baby boy, she w`nted to

go back to give her last goodbye, she was refused, she collapsed to

the floor, and the officials around her said, that if she did not get

up, she would have to go in a wheelchair or a stretcher. @s it was

time to go. Good God. Does ly honourable friend agree that

kindness costs nothing, and there is kindness costs nothing, and there is

a duty on anyone whether in the NHS or in the police, to make stre that

they are dealing with parents in this situation, that they do it with

kindness and that is very mtch part of the way they behaved? Yes, she

raises a point and I only whsh that raises a point and I only whsh that

the disgraceful behaviour and storage she has related to le was

unique but it is not. Storids I have read and personal testimony I have

heard sadly echoed those experiences. I think this is exactly

what we need to address. Yot are quite right, this is why tr`ining is

so important and we have midwives and clinicians trained around

bereavement. Language to usd, what not to say, I will not even repeat

some of the things that are set to some of the things that are set to

parents who aren't -- who are grieving. In our case it was not a

huge shock but for many pardnts this is something that has happened

instantly almost and I had no idea this was coming. They are are at the

most emotionally fragile period in most emotionally fragile period in

their life and it costs nothing to act with kindness, empathy `nd

compassion. I would like to think that we can reach a point where

those are things that are rtnning through every maternity unit in a

country and an over vast jollity it is, but where we have -- I know the

vast majority it is, but whdre it is not, we have to change this. We have

to have a bereavement suite in every hospital in the country, we have to

have bereavement trained midwives in every hospital in the country, we

need those gynaecology trained counsellors in every maternhty unit

in the country. And we also need that ongoing mental health support.

The time at which you leave the The time at which you leave the

hospital is not the end of xour grief. For many people it is just

the start. When it comes to future pregnancies, that can be ond of the

most traumatic pregnancies because most traumatic pregnancies because

you are thinking, from the day you will find that you are pregnant to

the day you have got a crying baby in your arms, is this going to

happen again? What mental hdalth support is available? In sole parts

other parts, it simply is not. And other parts, it simply is not. And

finally, I just want to touch on two other points. One is relationship

support. We know that betwedn 8 and 90% of relationships break tp after

social cost as well so that mental social cost as well so that mental

health support is so import`nt. I also think, and partly the reason

why I am co-chair of this Parliamentary group is that the

voice of fathers has to be heard as well. The father that feel that they

have to act as a rock. But hn many cases we were there as well,

witnessing it and there is nothing, there is nothing, no experidnce in

my view, worse than seeing xour wife gives birth to a lifeless b`by. It

is something that never leaves you. And every single day I think about

my son, I think about what he would have been like yesterday on his

second birthday, I imagine ` small boy running around our housd,

causing havoc, winding up hhs sisters. It is not to be. Btt every

single day you live in that grief. Fathers need support to.

This is a hugely exciting thme for us because the opportunity for

change is enormous, the APPG is making enormous progress and work we

have done already vision documents, and what we have achieved shnce

there be working with these magnificent charities all across the

country, with individual spdeding in their personal experiences, has been

incredible. And this is just the beginning of this journey. This is

just the point that we have set our vision and aspiration and what we

want to achieve and I know that pushing against an open door with a

government, they want to achieve these targets to. I just want to

send one final message to every single parent that is bereaved up

and down the country and we care and we are going to keep talking about

it and were not get it stopped talking about it until we rdduce our

stillbirth rate and most importantly that we have the best quality

bereavement care in the world, thank you. Thank you Mr Deputy Spdaker and

it is a pleasure to follow the honourable member for Colchdster, is

excellent and passion contrhbution. Of course this is such a sensitive

and important subject and I want to congratulate the honourable members

for securing this debate at this very important week. And for

speaking about their own personal experiences. I also want to pay

tribute, to the very brave honourable members, who share their

personal experiences, with such eloquence today. My honourable

friend, the member for Lewisham Deptford, and North Ayrshird and

Arran, and my very good honourable friend, the member for Washhngton

and Sunderland West. In Hull, the levels of stillbirth and neonatal

death are higher than the n`tional average and there is so much more as

we have heard already that needs to be done but I want to put on record

my tribute to the excellent work of the hull and East Yorkshire route in

supporting parents and I also but to the trust under the inspirational

readership -- leadership Fr`ncine Bates. But today I want to go back

to the issue, about injustice. We know that the trauma of the loss of

a baby can also be compounddd by what happens next. And I want to

tell you the story of my constituents, my Cantina Trow Hill.

Who came to see me to tell le about what had happened to them. They

explained that their baby Whlliam, had very sadly died in 1994, a long

time ago. And they had been told at the time that when he was cremated

there would be no Ashes. Many, many years later, Tina discovered that

baby William's caches had in fact been retained, never been rdturned

to her, and somebody had sc`ttered them without her knowledge. This was

very sad and bewildering. Why would somebody do this. It soon bdcame

very apparent that this was not a very sad one-off incident. Tina has

worked relentlessly in Hull and the wider Hull area to help manx other

families who have also discovered that their baby 's ashes were either

not return to them or scattdred without their knowledge, or there is

still a mystery as to where the ashes are now. She, set on, the

local ashes group, it now h`s 4 0 members. She has discovered that

many families were told that there would be no Ashes when their baby

was cremated, many families were told this by clinicians and nurses

in the NHS, many families now have discovered that those ashes were

scattered. Over 50 sets of `shes are still held by the co-operathve

funeral service, and have not been returned to families. There are

cases coming to light where babies appear to have been transported to

the crematorium without the use of an undertaker. And Tina herself has

helped families submit forms to the local authority, seeking information

about what happened to thosd babies. She submitted over 50 such requests

so far. And it is quite cle`r now that this has not just happdned in

Hull but up and down the cotntry, it has happened in Scotland and in

Shrewsbury. And is Rosebery, the local authority rightly, held an

enquiring to find out what had happened and to get those answers

for local families. So in Htll, Tina and I decided that we would see Hull

City Council and asked run independent enquiring just `s they

had had in Shrewsbury and while initially sympathetic, the Council

decided no. They wouldn't bd willing to hold such an enquiring. We

challenge them on this, sayhng it wasn't just OK for the local

authority to investigate itself But no, they said they weren't willing

to have that local enquiring. So I raised it with the previous Prime

Minister David Cameron. And I asked him what he thought about it and he

expressed to me that actually, it must be dreadful not to know what

has happened to your baby 's ashes and something should be dond.

Eventually Tina and I went to see the Justice Secretary, the Right

Honourable member for Surrex Heath. And I think he was genuinelx moved

by Tina's plight, and the m`ny families in Hull who did not know

what had happened. Tina madd it very clear to the Justice Secret`ry, what

she wanted to see was a loc`l enquiring to get the answers to what

had happened. And on the 10th of May the Justice Secretary wrote on Baha

Provencal, Secretary of State for Health and the Secretary of State

for the Department for Commtnities and Local Government and sahd this.

"I'm Pleased to be a will to tell you that my fellow secretarhes of

State at the Department of Health and communities and local government

have agreed with me that thdre is a need for a historic investigation

into the practices relating to infant cremations for the whole

area. And today, we have asked them to commission this. Well, you can

imagine, we were delighted to have that, and to have three secretaries

of state acknowledge that, those families deserve to know wh`t had

happened. That was excellent news, and I was delighted that thd

Secretary of State decided to do that. However, there were two

issues, rightly so that rem`ined of concern. One was the jurisdhction

point, it wasn't just about the local council who had responsibility

for the crematorium, it was also about the national Health Sdrvice

and the role that they playdd, and the training needs and anything else

that might come out of any Inquiry. There was also an hssue

about private funeral directors and how they would be compelled to be

part of any investigation, so it was quite clear that there were some

issues that needed to be addressed. And the other issue that I did have

quite a lot of sympathy with, was about the cost of holding an

independent enquiring. We know that enquiries and be expensive `nd we

know that both councils are under enormous financial pressure at the

moment. So I supported, Hull City Council, in returning to thd

Department of Justice and asking for cavitation on those two points.

Jurisdiction and whether thdre was any financial help availabld. That

all seem to be going well, H thought they were genuine issues to deal

with. However on the 26th of December 2016, the new Justhce

Secretary wrote to Hull Citx Council, saying that she thought it

was now no longer any need for an enquiring. This letter was not

copied to me or my constitudnt, and I only became aware of it bdcause

the Chief Executive of Hull City Council sent a copy to me. H had to

say on behalf of my constittents and many families in Hull, I am furious

that a decision made by thrde secretaries of state, was jtst

completely overturned with no consultation, or any kind of

attempt, to consult with me or my constituent, my constituent as you

can imagine is devastated. @nd when I read the letter from Hull City

Council, it said that they had carried out investigations, they

were satisfied that everythhng had been done as it could be done.

Reading the letter it was also clear that they had not engage fully with

the problems around the NHS and the funeral directors and is certainly

hadn't engaged fully with the families. In recent years, we have

become very much more an opdn country and we are less willing to

take the word of trust and `uthority figures. Organisations left to

investigate themselves, rardly see the need for independent scrutiny of

their actions. You only havd to look at cases like Hillsborough.

Organisations that investig`te themselves almost always find

nothing much wrong and no one answerable for any error th`t is

ever owned up to. Nothing to see here, go away, move on, could be the

motto of that culture. Now ht nearly 100 families in Hull coming forward,

they are not just going to go away and accept that they will not get

the answers to the questions they are asking about the ashes of their

deceased babies and what happened. A proper independent enquiring, run

from outside Hull City Council, that at a proper independent Inqtiry As

to whether or not more could be learned is the least that they

deserve. Without the lessons of the past learned, there will be less

confidence, as to whether rdforming practices in the crematoriul by

ministers will be enough. I do not understand why the Secretarx of

State for Justice, what she had to gain by closing down the prospect of

proper independent scrutiny of what went wrong in Hull. In this week in

particular, I would just ask the Minister to put himself in the shoes

of those families in Hull, who want answers and justice. And thdre are

three key demands. First of all I believe that my constituent ought to

receive an apology from the Secretary of State justice `nd I

think she ought to give her the courtesy of a personal meethng just

as the previous Secretary of State did. And thirdly, I think the

independent investigation as to what happened to the baby ashes hn Hull

should be reinstated forthwhth, with funding from the government to

ensure that this enquiring can go ahead. -- this Inquiry. What an

honour it is to follow that speech, from the Honourable Lady from

Kingston Uppal Hull. We havd looked closely together on difficulties

relating to infant cremations. And I very much listened with intdrest as

to what she had to say todax. When my son died I was told by otr

consultant that one day it would be possible to put my grief in the box

and only open the box when ht suited me. The sea at the time I thought

she was completely insane. Now I realise it is possible to h`ve an

element of control over lifting the lid on public although not when I

have exercise particularly well today. -- not one. Over the years I

have talked about my experidnces, raising money for mental he`lth

charities and I have learned that nothing opens those wallets quicker

than tears. I have also, talked to midwives, they are used emotional

mothers, it is an honour to be Vice chair of this APPG and to h`ve been

thereat its conception, one very late night in the tearoom. We have

well and truly lifted the lhd this week in Parliament which is an

achievement itself. But just as importantly we have succeeddd in

enlisting both health and Elma J Minister certainly to date, to our

cause. The Secretary of State's emotion was obvious to all `nd I was

piece to see him earlier. The charitable fundraiser in me did

wonder if next year we should ask a well-known tissue manufacturer tiffs

to sponsor this debate next year. In brief, during my third pregnancy, my

son died soon after he was born and for some time it was not all if I

was surprised. To put it into context, my father slipped from this

place at a time of enormous difficulty from the governmdnt which

shows clearly it was considdred serious, my condition was vdry

serious. I went on to have two more children aged 15 and 13.

With your permission I would like to touch on learning points from my own

experience, then about some of the work we have done in the APG this

year, them finally make somd points about maternity going forward. The

learning points from my own expect out of date but sadly not all of the

things have been put right, obviously physical care comds first

in maternal and baby death hs a real possibility but someone needs to be

tasked with the mental care of the whole family as the death of the

baby leaves deep scars in so many in his or her relations. Memorhes,

clothes and photos make a rdal difference later, however mtch they

seem like frippery at the thme. Putting bereaved mothers in with my

babies is not on, however ill they babies is not on, however ill they

are. Explaining what is going on all the time is critical, and m`de new

to be done many times to different family members. Medical conditions

has to be understood by those suffering. Midwives, as my

honourable friend said, need more than one hour of bream and training

and they also need training on how to have grown-up conversations on

things like lactation which are utterly lacking in my experhence.

Training all obstetric staff is so important because so many p`tients

go on to have more children, GPs and other health workers also nded to be

aware of the long-term effect of baby loss. It is difficult to go

back to the hospital with whatever condition in the future, let alone

want to do with pregnancy. Where possible, parents should not have to

do to tell and we tell their story at every important. The syndrome I

list suffered from Leeds to multiple organ failure, so not being a doctor

and not understanding what hs wrong with me now, if I have a minor

condition and go to the doctor means I have to go through the whole story

again. The simple flag on mx notes would be easy to do so is every time

I have my blood pressure taken I have to retell everything. Fathers,

as my honourable friend mentioned, get ignored. We need proper evidence

of the effects of babies piling on relationships. We have some evidence

that we have touched on -- babies dying on relationships. This is not

good enough. May I read frol this Lancet article, fathers reported

feeling added knowledge is ` legitimately grieving parents. The

burden of these men keeping feelings to themselves increase the risk of

chronic grief. Differences hn the grieving process stream pardnts can

lead to incongruent grief, which was reported to cause serious

relationship issues. Affect on grandparents should also be

considered. In the case of ly own parents, they had to cope whth a lot

of their grandchild and the very near loss of their daughter. In my

view, access to mental health provision must be standardised and

good practice copied. 40% of parents of premature babies need sole mental

health intervention. For those with babies who die, I would certainly

suggest that everyone need `t least an assessment. I also think that

relationship counselling should be offered as part of an autom`tic

deal, although I do not know what pages this would be benefichal at.

At the very least, we need dvidence of the effect of baby loss on

relationships. The APPG is lade up of individuals with different

expenses and talents, the mdmber for Colchester is excellent on parental

leave, the other member knows about pathways of care. My role this year

has been instant cremations, not least because of a constitudncy case

I had. While I am aware that the minister here is not the Minister

responding, is not the minister who should respond on infant crdmation

issues, it is important that we have a cross departmental and johned up

approach to this so I would welcome his intervention is necessary or at

least his speaking to the Mhnistry of Justice about this. I th`nk my

giving way, thank you Mr Deputy giving way, thank you Mr Deputy

Speaker. I would be horrifidd I listen to this debate, I have never

lost a baby my family. I am horrified and I am upset, btt it

seems to me that surely, a lother that gives birth, still bordd or

not, it is her baby, the falily s baby. Surely -- stillborn or not, it

is her baby, the family's b`by. Surely she and the father should

have absolute rights with what happens with cremation and

thereafter. I absolutely horrified that they do not at the momdnt. I

thank my honourable friend for his helpful intervention. We have the

APPG welcome the MOT consultation and the subsequent response which

was published just before the summer. It seems we are on the cusp

of some very important changes in this area. What I would ask is that

we push that these happen speedily, they are very important. I `m

grateful to my honourable friend for letting me intervene on her in and

important speech. I would lhke to inform the House on the back of that

comment, that my colleague the Minister at the Ministry of Justice

announced last month before mention of a national cremation working

group which is working now with all interested parties including looking

to take members of this house's evidence, and I encourage all of

participate. I thank the Minister participate. I thank the Minister

for that and we were thrilldd in the APPG by the formation of th`t group.

May I in this context gives the House a few more examples from the

are particularly important that are are particularly important that are

taken forward speedily. We hope that taken forward speedily. We hope that

the MoJ will provide a statttory definition of Ashes to make sure

that everything cremated with a baby, including personal itdms and

covered, must be recovered. We also help that the MoJ will amend

cremation application forms to make explicit the applicant's wishes in

relation to the Ashes recovdred And crucially, for many I know this is

an important point, bring the cremation of foetuses of less than

24 weeks gestation within the scope of the regulation where pardnts wish

this to happen. There is sole positive news in a very sensitive

area. Moving on to the future of maternity more generally, mx

overriding constituency concern at the moment is the future of the

Horton General Hospital. If I am honest, it occupies most of my

waking moments and my children complained during our summer holiday

in August that I cannot forlulate a sentence without the word Horton in

it. I fear that is true. Thhs summer, I found that the lid being

listed on my own experience is repeatedly, as we have real safety

concerns surrounding the downgrading of our obstetric unit at thd Horton

General. Since last week, a midwife General. Since last week, a midwife

led unit remains at the Horton General but all mothers who may need

obstetric care, and that is may need not necessarily will need, that is

the majority of mothers, has to go either under their own steal or be

transferred as an emergency to the JR in Oxford. In a blue light

ambulance, this is a journex between 22 and 27 miles depending on the

route. It takes around 45 mhnutes. If travelling on your own c`r, and

mothers have their own cars, mothers have their own cars,

depending on where you live and the state of the Oxford traffic, it can

easily take up to an hour and a half. The decision to downgrade was

taken on safety grounds as the trust had failed to recruit enough

obstetricians. I must say, H have severe safety concerns for the

mothers and babies in our area now. In 2008, a report concluded the

distance was too far for our unit to be downgraded. As I see it, nothing

has changed except that the Oxford traffic has worsened. I'm kden

generally that we start to be kinder to mothers during pregnancy and

mean courage in them to labour on mean courage in them to labour on

the back of a car on the ro`d. With a personal care actually le`ds to

better outcomes. We need to take very careful note of the baroness's

I commend Asians in her better birth report. She says that birth --

recommendations in her birth report. She said that both should bdcome

kinder and more family friendly We must use the impetus of events such

as this week to drive through her major recommendations. Chief among

these must be the recommend`tion for continuity not of care, but of

carer. This has been shown to reduce premature deaths by 24%. Professor

Lesley Regan, this first wolan president of the wild card of

applications -- president of the Royal College of obstetrici`ns has

done a plethora of search which demonstrate that reassurancd and

continuity with weekly scans and meetings with the midwife h`s

reduced the rate of recurrent miscarriage by 80%, these women have

miscarried three or four tiles. The honourable friend mentioned earlier

the excellent work being done at Queen Charlotte. In this context I

have troubled that the sustainability and transforlation

plans made push us towards larger units have left personal care. It

maybe I am wrong and I hope I am. Perhaps it is safer for these giant

units to deliver the majority of babies. But I worry that in my case

in boundary, decisions are being taken in my constituency without

their views being considered and without real evidence of thd risks

being involved. Everyone in the House is clearly committed to

reducing baby loss and therd is clear evidence. We have evidence

-based research to show us how to do that and I refer the Ministdr very

firmly to the baroness's report Better bereavement care is

important, and sadly some b`bies such as mine will always did, but

reduce premature death of b`by. I reduce premature death of b`by. I

need to be able to tell my constituency is members that they

will not suffer as I did. It is a pleasure to follow that excdllent,

very moving and yet very pr`ctical speech from the honourable lember

who is making me want to crx. I think the idea of having a tissue

manufacturer sponsoring this debate was quite a good one. I would also

like to pay tribute to the honourable member for industry and

the honourable member for Colchester for bringing this really important

debate of the House. We are all owing them for raising awardness of

this issue, as one of their commitment to the APPG. I would also

like to pay tribute to the families who actually started baby loss

awareness Day in 2002, and now to the thousands of families across the

country who continue the colmitment country who continue the colmitment

to helping other family through their grief was highlighting whilst

highlighting the lack of colmunity bereavement care. Thousands of

families each year in the UK suffer the tragedy of losing a child and

hopefully this debate might in some small way leads to them not having

are not alone in their grief. This are not alone in their grief. This

debate has raised many issuds, many debate has raised many issuds, many

of which are uncomfortable but very necessary if we have to change

policy to help reduce infant death, help save the rear families from

isolation, and to make sure -- bereaved families from isol`tion,

and make sure that the best possible neonatal care is

and make sure that the best possible neonatal care available to dveryone

in the NHS. Before I was eldcted to this place, I worked in the NHS in

the Northwest. They perform some good work in this area incltding

holding an annual baby memorial day for parents who had lost babies in

the hospital, which was led by our excellent hospital chaplains who

performed such a good service to bereaved parents. Sadly, I was asked

to attend this debate by my constituent Jane Casey whosd

daughter tragically died shortly after her birth at the trust. Jane

has still not received the root cause analysis into her daughter's

Beth from the trust, and IM helping her in obtaining this report 11

months after her death. Jamhe says, and these are her words, thd

hospital has made me feel that my daughter's life was not important. I

am completely broken and find life a struggle. I keep on going bdcause of

my son. Such a sad words and so typical of examples that have been

shared today. I really am hopeful that this debate could achidve some

practical steps to avoid falilies suffering such grief. And hdalth

visitors, who have not been mentioned yet, they play such an

important role pre-and post-pregnancy and can give support

and practical help and yet there role is undervalued. Since 2015

health visitors have been ddvolved to local authorities but since then

we have seen nearly ?200 million of cuts to local authorities. The

former Chancellor of the extractor announced a further ?77 million cut

in the next year and ?84 million in the year after. The funding

transferred with these health visiting services was not rhng

fenced and I sincerely hope that under the guidance of a new Prime

Minister and new Chancellor, that they will look at protecting and

investing more in this vital service. Staggeringly, 68% of local

bereavement support while ndarly a bereavement support while ndarly a

fifth of ccs also do not offer such a service. For what seems a vital

and necessary provision for families in their time of greatest nded, the

failure to do so is clearly apparent in our health care structurds. I am

pleased to say that NHS England are currently developing the chhldren

palliative care funding currency, which includes pre-brief and care

before a baby or child dies, but sadly overlooks bereavement care

would hope to see is being lade to would hope to see is being lade to

this policy. The government and this has also has

the opportunity to make changes by moving the rubble member from

Colchester boss might build to have on the statute books parent`l brief

believe, this would give thd right entitlement to leave of absdnce for

bereaved parents. This is a common right across Europe and I think it

is an important first step hn the right direction and I entitlement

that should be afforded to `ll at their time of greatest need. Whilst

mothers fathers and families will never forget the children they have

lost. Baby loss awareness wdek is a chance for those families to meet

other families and share melories in remembrance. A collective sharing of

experiences can begin to he`l and alleviate a small part of the pain.

The most powerful thing it provides is the opportunity to speak out and

to prevent others from softdning the same agony happening to othdr

parents across the UK. And we as legislators, must seek to act upon

the word spoken here in the house, to create a better environmdnt of

support for bereaved familids. And finally, can I pay tribute to my

honourable friend, the membdr for Lewisham Deptford for sharing the

Chadwick story of her daughter Veronica, I'm in awe of the bravery

and the courage that she showed in speaking out today. And the bravery

and courage has been echoed in the words of the honourable members for

North Ayrshire and Arran, W`shington and Sunderland, the honourable

member for Banbury and indedd the two honourable members who have

brought this debate to the house today and I thank you very luch for

giving me my opportunity to speak, thank you. People have got to stand

up, Byron Davies. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm very gr`teful

and it is a great pleasure to participate in this debate today. I

want to thank, and congratulate my honourable friends, for Ed hs brief

and Colchester for securing and bringing for this incrediblx

deportment important debate. And to their work with your Parlialentary

party group and other honourable members who have participatdd in it.

Can I pay tribute, to the honourable members, for Lewisham and Ddptford

and Ayrshire, Aaron and Banbury I have known the honourable mdmber for

Ed is brief for quite some time we have been friends, and of course

were both members of the National Assembly for Wales. Indeed we used

to sit next to each other at the assembly and I witnessed first-hand

the terrible loss and devastation that she had when going through her

baby loss. It is a testament to her courage and resolve that despite the

tragic loss she is highlighting the issue once again, which is `ffecting

some of us here today. It t`kes bravery to tackle the silence and

Sigma that used to exist, and she was instrumental in tackling this

when she was an assembly melber She has also been instrumental hn

bringing this issue to the national stage and raising awareness for the

tens of thousands of familids who need help and support. In p`ying

tribute to the outstanding work she is doing and in the than thd 20 5

the Secretary of State launched the national ambition to reduce the

rates of stillbirths, neonatal deaths, maternal deaths and brain

injuries. That occur during or soon after birth, 15% by 2030 with a

shorter name of achieving a 27 cent reduction by 2020, and this no doubt

will be in large part to thd excellent work, for the honourable

member for Colchester are doing In 2014 there were 3245 stillbhrths,

and 2689 infant deaths in England and Wales. The death of a b`by is

one of the most traumatic events for a mother and father to go through.