Browse content similar to 12/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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support for disabled people who are in work. Points of order will come | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
later. We now come to the select committee statement. The chair of | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
the women inequalities select committee, the right honourable | :00:12. | :00:13. | |
member for Basingstoke, will speak for up to ten minutes, during which | :00:14. | :00:20. | |
no interventions may be taken. At the conclusion of her statement I | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
will call members to put questions on the subject of the statement and | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
call Mrs Maria Miller to respond to these in turn. Members can expect to | :00:29. | :00:37. | |
be called only once. Interventions should be questions and should be | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
brief. The French bent -- front bench may take part in questioning. | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
I remind the house that ordinarily such a statement and questioning on | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
it can be a spectator to take in total approximately 20 minutes. I | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
called the chair of the women and equality select committee Mrs Maria | :00:58. | :01:04. | |
Miller. I would like to thank the backbench business committee for | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
this opportunity to make a statement to the house on the fifth report of | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
the women inequalities committee on women in the House of Commons after | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
the next general election in 2020. The successful preparation of all | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
our reports depends on the hard work of the committee's clerks and staff, | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
the diligence of honourable members who make up our committee and I'm | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
glad to see my honourable friend the member for Portsmouth South and the | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
member for Bath here today. Also the generosity of our witnesses, who | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
give up their time to prepare and take part in our sessions and I | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
particularly like to thank my right honourable friend the member for | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
Derbyshire Dales, Islington North, Moray and the honourable member from | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
Westmorland and Lonsdale, all of whom enthusiastically shared their | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
views and the work of their respective parties with the | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
committee. If 100 years ago, Mr Speaker, the suffragettes who fought | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
for women's rights fought for our right to be elected to sit in this | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
place were told that just 455 women would be elected to this place over | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
the next ten decades, I'm not sure whether they would have laughed or | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
cried. I think they would be proud the United Kingdom had seen two | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
female prime ministers but the facts are that there are as many men | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
sitting in this place today as there are women ever elected to be members | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
of Parliament. At the moment we have 195 women MPs, and 455 men. And I | :02:40. | :02:48. | |
have yet to see any evidence to suggest that women are less | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
qualified than men to represent their communities or that women | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
don't want to have the opportunity to be a member of Parliament to | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
improve the lives of those who live in their community. Therefore this | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
startling imbalance should cause all of us a great deal of concern, | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
because at best we are failing to reach out, and at worst the parties | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
who are in the most part responsible for selecting candidates are failing | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
in their due to. The select committee's report provides an | :03:21. | :03:22. | |
evidence -based set of recommendations to change that, to | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
help ensure Britain does not slip further down the global rankings for | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
the rubber dissipation in parliament and to promote a more representative | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
parliament, and to make this place a stronger place. Our report has | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
consciously focus on female representation but our | :03:43. | :03:44. | |
recommendations showed, we feel, open up discussions on how to secure | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
improved diversity in other areas too. A parliament with more black | :03:49. | :03:56. | |
and ethnic minority representation, more disabled members, ensure that | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
the debates we have, the laws we have are going to be better. Of | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
course the report builds on significant work that has already | :04:05. | :04:06. | |
been done relating to representation and Parliament such as the report of | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
the Speaker's Parliament convened by yourself. Also the cop brands of | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
work done by Professor Sarah Childs, who produced a good Parliament | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
guide. The trigger for this new report was the boundary commissions | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
initial proposals for reducing the size of Parliament to 600 | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
constituencies. There is no reason why this should inversely impact | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
women or any other group, but these proposals would mean that more than | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
20 women MPs would see their seats to all intents and purposes | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
disappear, and if political parties don't take action, this will mean a | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
lower proportion of women MPs in the next general election. As of the | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
committeerecommendations are for government political parties and | :04:53. | :04:54. | |
Parliament itself, because we all have to take responsibility. Our | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
Kieran accommodations for more transparency from parties on the | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
work they are doing to improve candidate selection, and we feel | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
that the government should majorly bring into force the statutory | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
requirement for political parties to publish their Parliamentary | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
perversity data fit general elections as set out in section 106 | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
of the equality act so that we can properly scrutinise the record of | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
parties in selecting a diverse slate of Parliamentary candidates. | :05:24. | :05:25. | |
Secondly that the government should seek to introduce in legislation in | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
this Parliament is statutory minimum proportion of female candidates in | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
general elections for each political party, and we have proposed a | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
minimum 45% of women. This measure would only be brought into force if | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
the number of proportion of women MPs fails to increase significantly | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
after the next general election. Thirdly as part of our | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
recommendations we have also set out a domestic target of 45% for the | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
representation of women in parliament and local government by | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
2030. This really is to inform the work being done by ONS to | :06:00. | :06:09. | |
established domestic indicators for the UN sustainable develop and goals | :06:10. | :06:11. | |
and a particular goal five, an indicator that my right honourable | :06:12. | :06:13. | |
friend the member for Putney and also David Cameron fought hard for | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
when these goals were established, goals that apply to the UK as well | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
as other members of the UN. To make progress these measures need to have | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
real teeth, which is by the committee has also recommended that | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
the remit of the electoral commission be extended to introduce | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
fines for noncompliance. In our evidence, sessions of the German and | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
leaders of the political parties it was evident there is enormous | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
support for more representative parliament, and indeed each one | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
agreed that Parliament would be a better place if 50% of MPs were | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
women. But we need to turn those warm sentiment in the bums on seats, | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
and I hope that is not unparliamentary language, Mr | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
Speaker, but what the parties lack in clear and, hence if the turn this | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
into play action. This Parliament is the mother of all parliaments but at | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
the moment and our watch, we are letting ourselves down on a global | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
stage. Since 1999, Britain has fallen from 25th in the world the | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
48th in the world, in terms of female rippers in tension. This | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
Parliament should have a clear aspiration to be the global leader | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
for female representation and diversity more generally and the | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
recommendations in the report can help us achieve that. The Labour | :07:27. | :07:39. | |
Party is committed to increasing the representation of women in | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
parliament and at every level in politics and there is a report that | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
recognises more than half of the women on these Labour benches, 43.7% | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
of the Parliamentary Labour Party is made up of women, and much of this | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
is to do with Labour's commitment to short lists. Does the one lady think | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
other parties should look to introduce short lists of their | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
Parliamentary selections, and does she agree that parties not already | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
taking direct positive action should do so as a matter of urgency? | :08:10. | :08:20. | |
is a body of evidence that parties can look at. I don't think it is for | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
a select lack -- FOI select committee to debate as to how they | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
run their own selection procedures. That is for them but they should | :08:33. | :08:41. | |
also be looking at the evidence. Mr Speaker, in recalling that Labour | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
lost one of their safest seats in 2005 over the imposition of a women | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
only short list, what role does my right honourable friend see in local | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
associations being able to choose the candidate they think is best for | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
that area irrespective of gender or for the voters to siding to vote for | :08:59. | :09:00. | |
the person they think is best to represent that area irrespective of | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
their gender? I thank my honourable friend for that question. He is | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
absolutely right. Associations and local parties have a huge role to | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
play in making sure they get the right person for the job in that | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
area. But it is very surprising to see that just one in four candidates | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
at the last general election was female. I think perhaps we need to | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
ensure that the right training is in place, the right support in place | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
that we have a diverse city of candidates for those associations | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
and parties to choose from. The SNP welcomes the publication of this | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
report. We firmly believe that all political parties should be held to | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
account for the action they are taking to improve this democratic | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
but is it because it is simply not acceptable in 2017 for women to be | :09:52. | :09:53. | |
discriminated against or underrepresented whether in the | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
boardroom, politics or anywhere else. The SNP is committed to the | :09:57. | :10:05. | |
increased numbers of MPs and MSP selected the UK and Scottish | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
parliaments and our gender balanced cabinet being one of the few in the | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
world to do so. The SM people smack Scottish Government is also tasting | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
decisive action to make sure women are represented in senior and | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
decision-making roles including in the boardroom and our programme for | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
government contains many ambitious commitments in support of women's | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
equality. Can I ask if the UK Government is considering similar | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
measures and when they will bring these into fruition? We think it is | :10:30. | :10:39. | |
important that after the next general election if there is some | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
progress made, -- if there is not significant progress made that 45% | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
of candidates should be female. She mentioned equal representation in | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
patent -- cabinets and I was heartened to see Justin Trudeau when | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
he became president in Canada saying what the jerks pectin 2016, I think | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
which say what should we expect in 2017? My right honourable friend | :11:04. | :11:12. | |
mentioned the excellent report by Professor Sarah Childs. Would you | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
agree some of those recommendations would also help to pre-empt more | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
women into Parliament? My honourable friend from Portsmouth South is | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
right. We are building on firm foundations here. I think that | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
Parliament itself has to look very carefully at its operation to ensure | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
that it is doing everything it can to encourage all women to come | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
forward. Historically we have looked very closely at things like child | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
care, family friendly working. I think also we should be looking very | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
carefully at some of the dissuading effects that the violence, online | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
abuse that female members experience, how that can actually | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
put people off as well. That is just as important, and something the | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
house needs to take very seriously. When John Bright first coined the | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
term other Parliament, he was saying that even England, which was the | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
mother of Parliaments, had still not brought for -- Paul Dummett proceed | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
to the country because the vast majority were not able to vote, so | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
now we are coming up to the hundredth anniversary of some women | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
in 1918 being allowed to vote, isn't one of the biggest problems finance? | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
Because many women are paid less still than men, and working class | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
candidates still find it very difficult to get selected because it | :12:22. | :12:22. | |
is a very expensive business? This is something which came out in | :12:23. | :12:32. | |
the report that the cost of becoming a Member of Parliament can be very | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
steep indeed and is therefore sometimes outside of if reach of | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
some people, whether they are male or female. The parties need to ask | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
themselves very carefully the onty obstacles they put in the way of | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
candidates and whether they can lessen them either through financial | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
support or not. My own party, the Conservative Party have looked at | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
them very carefully and given practical help in the past. | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
Can I say to my honourable honourable friend that I basically | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
backed what she's aiming for, but put a caution on one or two issues. | :13:08. | :13:16. | |
The number of women MPs what had to match the number. When my wife was | :13:17. | :13:24. | |
first in Parliament it was 5%. Now it is 30%. It is important not to | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
think that Governments should require Parliament and parties to do | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
things. But one of them is not putting people into Parliament. It | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
should be giving people the opportunities and experience, | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
whether they can be chosen on merit with necessary luck. My honourable | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
friend makes some interesting points. Of course his wife was I | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
think probably one of my role models when I looked at Parliament and saw | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
the effective nature of women and the work they did here. But I only | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
have to look at some other institutions like the University of | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
London, who only started to admit women in 1878 but has more than 50% | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
of its students who are female. There are other institutions who | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
have made a journey more successfully than we have. We ask | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
questions why progress hasn't been made more quickly. As national | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
secretary of the SND until the end of last year I saw some successes | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
but also some of the struggles that come with implementing all-women | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
short list, where some cases despite having the requirement we struggled | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
to find women candidates. What does she think can be done at the for | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
mayive point of where people might become candidates in terms of work | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
experience with local politicians standing for a local council or at a | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
local party basis? The honourable gentleman is right. The work needs | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
to go in early. I would like to applaud the work of 50/50 Parliament | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
in the campaign they are currently running, which is Ask Her To Stand. | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
Many honourable ladies here today will know it has been the case it | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
has taken somebody asking women to stand for Parliament before they've | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
done that and that early work, particularly standing for local | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
Government can be a way of effectively building people's | :15:13. | :15:14. | |
confidence into taking this on as a career choice. | :15:15. | :15:22. | |
Mr David Nuttall. A man from a working class | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
background could be discriminated against if all the proposals and | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
recommendations in her report were accepted? My honourable friend is | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
right and speaking as somebody who went to a council house and went to | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
a comprehensive, I too don't want to see this place populated by an | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
unrepresented group of people. But it is unrepresentative at the | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
moment. So we have to, I think take some tough decisions here and rather | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
than fail to take action because of the threat of some groups feeling | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
discriminated against, actually put right what is a real injustice at | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
the moment in terms of fee male representation. My Right Honourable | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
friend for her statement and the hard work in leading our committee. | :16:08. | :16:15. | |
The UK signed up to the universal sustainability goals where no-one | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
was vouched to be left behind. It is embarrassing we only have 30% here | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
in the UK. Will my Right Honourable friend join me on calling to focus | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
on parliamentary reputation as they implement the plan? I thank my | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
committee friend for that comment. He will know we heard yesterday in | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
the conversation on the goals that the credibility of our country is in | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
jeopardy if we don't donor to implement the sustainable goals, | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
particularly goal five, which was so hard fought for by the member for | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
Putney and David Cameron at the time. Part of that is to make sure | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
we have significant improvements in parliamentary reputation. | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
THE SPEAKER: Point of order. I have heard you on occasions, Sir, | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
advising ministers from the dispatch box. I wonder if you notice the | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
Leader of the House has a habit of either staring at the honourable | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
member for Wellingborough or vacantly into space when answering | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
questions from this quarter of the House? There is the question of | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
audibility, Sir. But there is also the issue of nonverbal | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
communication. For example, when the leader of the House was unable to | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
dif fren cat between a 94% in Scotland compared to 88% in England, | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
we would have seen us shaking our heads. When he made an unfonded | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
comment of the Scottish referendum campaign he would have seen us | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
laughing at time. So I don't want to pick out the leader of the House, in | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
particular, but perhaps you can give kour -- encourage all members in | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
responding to them when being asked questions in debates and statements. | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
THE SPEAKER: Statements made in this chamber should always be | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
communicated through a chair. The second point is that of course | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
people speak from the dispatch box should address, and in so doing, | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
look at the House, rather than behind them at the member to whom | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
they might perhaps be responding. Beyond that I think I will not | :18:34. | :18:42. | |
venure. If I were uncharitable, I would imagine that The Right | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
Honourable gentleman was seeking against all precedent and | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
expectation of him to propaganda. But because I am not uncharitable, I | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
can not imagine that he was seeking to do anything of the kind. | :18:57. | :19:04. | |
Point of order, Mr Derek Twigg. Maybe I can ask your advice, there | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
is a proposal to site a hospital in my constituent by the Government. It | :19:11. | :19:19. | |
has caused angst and concern. It is I have been pursuing questions for | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
The Right Honourable member for Scarborough and Whitby. The | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
Government seem to take a decision to put these hostels in Labour | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
areas, mostly Labour areas. I have been trying to ascertain which | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
parliamentary constituents that the hostels are in. The minister replied | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
on a number of occasions. The last said that he couldn't tell me | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
because of the safety of the asylum seekers who were there. He couldn't | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
give me the individual locations. This is odd because on Monday night, | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
the council will be considering a planning application for this asylum | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
hostel, which has gone through full public consultation. I can not see | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
how the minister can give an answer like that. If, and I put down the | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
question, if still refuses to answer, given the information I have | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
put forward today, what advice will he give me? | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
THE SPEAKER: Off the top of my head, my advice is as follows, first and | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
this would be my principal suggestion, I think that the | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
honourable gentleman should go to the table office and seek its advice | :20:24. | :20:32. | |
as to the nature and terms of the questions to be tableded. He | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
muttered, I think, that he's already done that. If that has not availed | :20:36. | :20:42. | |
him, I am disappointed to hear it. I have again, purely without prior | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
notification of this matter, and therefore off the top of my head, | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
two further thoughts. One is that the honourable gentleman can, | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
without delay, seek an adjournment debate on the matter, with the | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
relevant minister, in which he will have a face-to-face opportunity over | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
a decent period to probe the minister with the relentlessness and | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
tenacity for which the honourable gentleman is renowned in all parts | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
of the House. Secondly, he can of course use Freedom of Information | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
opportunities to try to ascertain the facts that he wants to | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
ascertain. If neither of those approaches helps, I've got a hunch | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
that the honourable gentleman will be raising his concern with me on | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
the floor again. Point of order. Momentarily I felt | :21:34. | :21:40. | |
moved to be charitable. I always thought that when I addressed you, | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
Sir, in the chair, I was addressing the House. And if I may say so, my | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
pleasure in so doing is magnified when I address the chair when you | :21:51. | :21:52. | |
are occupying it. THE SPEAKER: Well! My cup runneth | :21:53. | :22:14. | |
over, to be complimented by a parliamentarian of the repute of The | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
Right Honourable gentleman really does cause me, for the rest of the | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
day, to go about my business with an additional glint in my eye and | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
spring in my step and possibly two inches taller. I'm a happy man | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
indeed. I've always liked The Right Honourable gentleman in the 20 years | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
I have known him. And I like him even more now. If there are no | :22:41. | :22:50. | |
further points of order, we now come, I think he better watch | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
himself a little bit with the Deputy Speakers in the coming days! We come | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
to the backbench motion on Yemen to move the motion I call the chair of | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
the International Development Select Committee of the House. Mr Twigg. | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I first of all thank the Backbench Business | :23:12. | :23:19. | |
Committee for granting this very important and timely debate? It is | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
good to see members from all parties in the House attending this debate. | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
Can I pay tribute to those who have worked on this issue of Yemen for a | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
much longer period of than I have. My interest in this has really | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
arisen over the last year or so because of my role as chair of the | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
International Development Select Committee. I am going to focus in my | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
speech on the humanitarian crisis in Yemen and then on the specific issue | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
raised in the motion around alleged violations by all sides of | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
international humanitarian law. I will not be addressing the specific | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
matter of arm sales to Saudi Arabia, as I know my friend and co-sponsor | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
for the motion, the honourable gentleman, the member for Warwick | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
and Leamington, who chairs the committees on arms export controls | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
will be addressing this important issue if he catches your eye. The | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
Yemen conflict began in early 2015. Less than two years ago. But it has | :24:19. | :24:27. | |
its roots in the Arab Spring of 201 1. When the President was succeeded | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
the movement took advantage of the new President's weakness, took | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
control of parts of northern Yemen and later took the capital. From | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
there, the conflict intensified with the intervention in 2015 of the | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
Saudi Arabian-led coalition, backed by US, UK and French intelligence | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
and on the other side the huty rebels, backed by Iraq. Yemen has | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
been called "the forgotten crisis." For example, by Amnesty | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
International. It is a crisis which surely we cannot ignore. | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
The President of the International Committee of the Red Cross has said | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
that the intensity and severity of the fighting in Yemen has left the | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
country looking like Syria did after five years of conflict. Since the | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
conflict began, nearly 10,000 people are estimated to have been killed, | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
with roughly 4,000 civilians losing their lives and 37,000 injured. | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
That is an average each day during this conflict of 75 deaths or | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
injuries. Surely, madam, Deputy Speaker, we cannot allow this to | :25:39. | :25:46. | |
continue. I pay tribute to my honourable friend and the committee | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
for the work they have done on committee and the member for Warwick | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
and Leamington. The issue here is not just the scorecard of shame that | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
he has told the House about, it is the access for those amazing aid | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
organisations. And that is why a ceasefire is so important. Does he | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
agree with me that the most important aspect of what we are | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
saying today is to get that ceasefire, so the aid can get | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
through? I'm grateful to my friend and in | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
particular pay tribute to his long-standing work on this issue and | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
the work of the all-party parliamentary group on Yemen. He is | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
absolutely right to say that a ceasefire is crucial and I'm going | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
to come on to the issue that he raised for access for humanitarian | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
organisations. So at the end of 2015, the International Development | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
Select Committee decided to conduct an inquiry into the crisis in Yemen | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
and during the course of last year, we published two reports on Yemen. | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
The first on our own relating specifically to the humanitarian | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
crisis, and the second in conjunction with the business | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
committee, through the work of the committees on arms export controls. | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
One of the recommendations in our first report was the UK Government | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
should put pressure on all parties to the conflict to comply with their | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
obligations under international humanitarian law that includes very | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
importantly measures to protect civilians and as my right honourable | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
friend reminded the House just now to allow humanitarian agencies a | :27:27. | :27:32. | |
safe space to operate. The humanitarian situation is grave, our | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
own government has described Yemen is one of the most serious | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
humanitarian crisis in the world. The United Nations estimates that | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
more than 80% of the population of Yemen, more than 20 million people | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
are in immediate need of humanitarian assistance. 40 million | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
people face food shortages, 19 million don't have access to safe | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
drinking water, more than 3 million have had to flee their homes because | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
of the conflict. The situation is particularly dire or children. The | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
United Nations has estimated that eight children are either killed or | :28:15. | :28:21. | |
maimed every day in Yemen and almost half of school age children are not | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
in school. Exacerbating this we have the difficulty of access for import | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
of essential supplies such as energy, food and medicine, this | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
feels the humanitarian crisis. Supplies are flowing through to the | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
country more quickly compare to six months ago and clearly that progress | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
is welcome but levels remain significantly below the position in | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
March 20 15. This is not only damaging the economy of the country | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
but any further changes in their villa availability of food risk | :28:53. | :29:00. | |
famine. The minister is on the front bench and putting over ?100 million | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
into Yemen to help relieve some of the most pressing humanitarian | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
challenges. The UK is the fourth largest donor to Yemen and leading | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
the way in these humanitarian crises but we need to do more to press | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
other countries to fund the relief of this crisis. | :29:19. | :29:30. | |
If it's giving ?100 million to Yemen, which I support, what's | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
happening to it because presumably it's blocked because you can get | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
through to the people that really needed so I suppose it's in some | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
bank or food store somewhere. The situation varies between different | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
parts of the country but I remember seeing the right honourable | :29:51. | :29:52. | |
gentleman sitting next to him in his previous role as the Minister, we | :29:53. | :30:00. | |
discussed this when he came to give evidence and one of the challenges | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
is one that the honourable gentleman has reminded us of, getting the | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
access within the country saw the aid can get through, not necessarily | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
requiring the UK to spend more money but to make sure we do our utmost to | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
get the aid through and that really brings us on to the challenges of | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
achieving a ceasefire but also political progress in Yemen as well. | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
Even in these challenging circumstances it's working to | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
improve food and water security and provide emergency resilience to | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
those most at risk. Unfortunately those organisations that have been | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
or still are in some cases on the ground helping to alleviate the | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
humanitarian situation have told the select committee that their work has | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
been threatened by the conflict. We know that since March 20 1513 health | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
workers have died, 31 have been injured, the world health | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
organisation tells us that more than 70 health centres have been damaged | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
or destroyed completely, more than 600 have closed due to damage or | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
shortage of supplies or staff. Last year NGO doctors of the world | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
withdrew from Yemen because they couldn't guarantee the safety of | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
their volunteers on the ground. The number of non-governmental | :31:15. | :31:16. | |
organisations have told us that there is a shrinking humanitarian | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
space in Yemen making it even more difficult for them to carry out | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
their work. All sides of the conflict need to comply with | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
international humanitarian law and one of the ways they should do so is | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
to ensure that humanitarian organisations work unimpeded in | :31:35. | :31:41. | |
Yemen. Does my honourable friend share my concern that attacks have | :31:42. | :31:48. | |
occurred from both sides and from the Saudi led coalition even one | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
chord notes have been provided. The attack on the hospital even though | :31:56. | :31:57. | |
the cord were provided two weeks before. I thank my honourable friend | :31:58. | :32:04. | |
and pay tribute to the work he's done on this issue and I agree | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
entirely with what he says and it brings me on to the second part of | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
my speech to the House this afternoon. The second major | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
recommendation that came out of both reports and recommended by the | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
Foreign Affairs Committee which disagreed with us on the question of | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
arms sales but agreed on this issue is that there has to be an | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
independent United Nations led investigation of alleged violations | :32:33. | :32:34. | |
of international humanitarian law by both sides in this conflict. There | :32:35. | :32:44. | |
have been so many allegations... I wanted to make the point in my | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
honourable friend that all in the Foreign Affairs Committee disagreed | :32:50. | :32:59. | |
with the report, it was a minority. If I might pay tribute to my | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
honourable friend for her long-standing interest and activity | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
on these issues, not least for active participation in the | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
committees on arm export controls which perform a vital function and | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
should continue. When I given the Foreign Affairs Committee report has | :33:17. | :33:19. | |
been mentioned, I've intended to come in at this point, I want to | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
point out that isn't it a fact that all three reports of the business | :33:25. | :33:27. | |
committee, the International development committee and the | :33:28. | :33:30. | |
Foreign Affairs Committee agreed by majority votes. I believe that is | :33:31. | :33:37. | |
the case, certainly as was by a majority vote. All three reports are | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
in support of this motion and therefore I'm not aware of any of | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
those voting in the minorities in any of the was the committees doing | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
so because they disagreed with this recommendation and I hope the | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
honourable gentleman and I have framed the motion that can enjoy | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
support across the House because it does. Focus on this issue of it | :33:58. | :34:05. | |
independent investigation. The chairman of the select committee | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
will say it was my particular concern when we took that vote and | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
my decision is on record that this independent investigation take place | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
and that is something which I feel very strongly about to put on record | :34:18. | :34:25. | |
today. I thank the honourable lady who is a great member of the | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
International development committee and I recall her focus was very much | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
we needed to see this independent investigation first and that's why | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
she voted in the way that she did but we were all agreed across the | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
committee that there should be an independent international | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
investigation and that featured in our first report as well as in the | :34:43. | :34:44. | |
second. In May 2015, the beginning of the | :34:45. | :34:58. | |
conflict, human rights watch accused the rebels of violations of | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
international law in the southern Sea port city. The crimes that were | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
highlighted including the killing of civilians and the arrest of aid | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
workers at gunpoint. Since then they had been accused of a range of other | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
serious alleged violations of international humanitarian law, for | :35:18. | :35:23. | |
example the situation in the besieged city, the prevention of the | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
import of basic commodities, medicine, propane and oxygen | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
cylinders to that city. The United Nations expert panel has documented | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
185 alleged abuses. As my honourable friend reminded us, medicine and | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
some Frontier who work often in these difficult and challenging | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
situations suffered the attacks on different hospitals in a three-month | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
period. Last September the Yemen data Project said a third of all the | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
Saudi led raids in Yemen have hit civilian sites on the UN High | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
Commissioner for human rights has estimated that 66% of the civilian | :36:06. | :36:13. | |
deaths in Yemen have been caused by Saudi led air strikes. The United | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
Nations human rights Council... Angry with him and concur with his | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
point but the UN panel also describe the problem facing the Saudi | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
coalition, the GCC countries, the Houthi rebels are operating in urban | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
areas and against international law, there are effectively using | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
civilians as human shields and yes there are problems with Saudi air | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
strikes, they are killing civilians but that provides a more balanced | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
picture of how this is occurring. Indeed it does and I will seeking to | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
absolutely be balanced in making the point that very serious allegations | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
have been made against the Houthis and I gave two examples of that and | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
I reiterate the point of the UN panel which is that there are 185 | :37:02. | :37:11. | |
alleged abuses, that is why this motion argues for an independent | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
investigation. Into all those alleged abuses. I'm not going to | :37:16. | :37:27. | |
have time to answer all the questions. On this point and I | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
didn't want to interrupt his speech, the House is learning a lot from it, | :37:31. | :37:37. | |
I hope you will concede this panel of experts have put this report | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
together didn't actually visit the country in order to put this report | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
together and we need to put that into context when monitoring and | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
understanding what's going on, don't ignore it but somehow we should add | :37:50. | :37:57. | |
value, they did not enter the country, they couldn't provide the | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
necessary intelligence we do expect from a panel of UN experts. They | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
didn't enter the country because of the challenges in the country that | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
I've been describing, didn't wilfully decide we're not going to | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
bother going on, with 185, this was based on serious work done by the | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
United Nations and am disappointed that the minister is so dismissive | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
of that. This is important because it does get used as a line to say | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
there are over 100, the Ministry of Defence has looked at every single | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
one of them and there were a number of them which we've asked for more | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
information but to clarify and give information to the House, sorry to | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
labour the point, but it was done on aerial photography with months in | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
between, therefore we cannot ascertain unless we have more | :38:45. | :38:46. | |
information as to whether these actual acts of atrocities were | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
caused by the Houthis or the coalition themselves, that's the | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
point and try to make. I agree with that and that's precisely why the | :38:56. | :39:02. | |
motion says that we should have a fully independent international | :39:03. | :39:04. | |
investigation into all allegations against both sides and it may well | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
be that some of these violations have been committed by the Houthis, | :39:08. | :39:14. | |
I didn't say 105 offences by the Saudi led coalition, alleged abuses | :39:15. | :39:22. | |
by them and the Houthis. In supporting the honourable member, | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
the UN panel were blocked by the Houthis from entering and the UN | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
panel explained that in the report that the tide of living to get it. | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
The Houthis also block the peace negotiators from leaving to go to | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
Geneva for the peace talks as well. The Houthis have been complicit in | :39:42. | :39:48. | |
creating this problem. He is absolutely right, I have heard | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
nobody in all of these debates and discussions, in the international | :39:53. | :39:59. | |
development committee suggesting the Houthis not to blame and that's why | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
the proposal is that we should haven't investigation into abuses in | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
all sides of this conflict. Maybe my honourable friend will be coming on | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
to this, but the discussions seems to be going on the basis of the | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
Saudi led coalition versus the Houthis comma is this not rather | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
missing the very unhelpful and sinister role played by the | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
Iranians, particularly in providing conventional weaponry and without | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
going into the data, I would suspect that many more people have been | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
killed, injured and dispossessed by the use of conventional weaponry of | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
which there is steady pipeline coming into Yemen from Iran when | :40:41. | :40:48. | |
actually by our action. I have already mentioned the role of Iran | :40:49. | :40:56. | |
in supporting the Houthis and any independent international UN led | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
investigation would certainly address the issue of Iranian | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
involvement but I reiterate the point I just made which is the UN | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
High Commissioner for human rights has estimated that two thirds of all | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
the civilian deaths in Yemen have actually been caused by the Saudi | :41:11. | :41:17. | |
led coalition. Indeed, isn't one of the very reasons why we need a full | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
independent investigation that were not clear about what has been | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
assessed and by who. The Saudis haven't given reports back on the | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
vast majority of the allegations that have been made whether they are | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
correct or not and were not clear what the government has or has not | :41:33. | :41:34. | |
assessed and they change their position an abrupt end on whether | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
they have taken an assessment or not. It needed corrections to the | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
House and have been revealed that they make mistakes in the efforts | :41:42. | :41:42. | |
they provided us. That enables me now to move the | :41:43. | :41:53. | |
timeline. I'm not going to give way because I want to move on to the | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
timeline. I'm not going to give way because I want to move on to the | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
United Nations human rights Council discussed Yemen in September 20 15. | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
The government of the Netherlands tabled a motion to the human rights | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
Council that would have mandated what this motion is proposing. 16 | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
months ago the Netherlands tabled a motion that would have set up a | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
mission to document violations by all sides of the conflict since it | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
began. The Netherlands withdrew the draft on September 30, 2015, and | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
instead the Human Rights Council adopted a resolution tabled by Arab | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
states which deleted calls for an independent enquiry. On the 24th of | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
November 2015, the Foreign Office minister told this House that Saudi | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
Arabia was investigating reported allegations of IHL. Saying, these | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
investigations must be concluded, the situation on the ground is very | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
difficult and in many cases we are unable to verify what is happening | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
on the ground. We are wanting to encourage Saudi Arabia and other | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
parties that are involved and we want these cases looked into | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
efficiently and properly by the country itself. That is 14 months | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
ago. On the 3rd of February last year, almost a year ago, during | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
questions the right honourable gentleman the former Difid minister | :43:19. | :43:26. | |
said the government was supporting the implementation of the Human | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
Rights Council resolution and he said the government of Yemen should | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
investigate violations of international humanitarian law. The | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
following day, during a business debate, the Foreign Office minister | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
said again he had raised this issue directly with the government of | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
Saudi Arabia. That is almost a year ago. Then we conducted our first | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
enquiry as a committee. On July the 8th, last year, the government | :43:56. | :43:58. | |
published its response to the report. The government response | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
said, the UK Government is not opposing calls for an international | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
independent investigation into the alleged breaches of IHL. But, first | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
and foremost, we want to see the Saudi Arabian government investigate | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
allegations of breaches of IHL which are attributed to them. That is six | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
months ago. In August, following the corrections to which my honourable | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
friend referred, I wrote to the Foreign Secretary regarding these | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
corrections that have been given to P Qs and Westminster Hall debates | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
regarding allegations of investigations of IHL. The Foreign | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
Office's response reiterated what had been said in response to our | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
enquiry, in other words that the Saudis should investigate. Last | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
September during an urgent question tabled by my right honourable friend | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
the member for Leeds Central, the minister said Saudi Arabia as to | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
conduct thorough and conclusive investigations into incidents where | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
it is alleged to breach IHL, and praise the fact that Saudi Arabia | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
had released the results of eight reports in the previous month. That | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
was four months ago. Then in October during an adjournment debate tabled | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
by my right honourable friend from Leicester East, the Dfid Minister of | :45:19. | :45:25. | |
State reiterated that Saudi Arabia needs to be the party that | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
investigates violations. We are very clear that the investigation needs | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
to be led in the first instance by the Saudis. The government | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
repeatedly, over the last 14 months, have been asked about Saudi Arabia's | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
investigations. To my knowledge, Saudi Arabia have produced nine | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
reports on violations. Even though there have been many other | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
allegations made. Progress, I believe, on this is glacial. I find | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
it remarkable that the government still holds the line that Saudi | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
Arabia must take responsibility for investigating its own alleged | :46:02. | :46:03. | |
violations. I give way to the Minister. Forgive me for | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
interrupting again but I think it's helpful to provide further clarity | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
as he developed his own argument. Firstly on the Human Rights Council | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
itself and the formation of texts, we've seen this at the UN security | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
Council more recently with resolution 2334. It is consensus | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
that eventually leads to a text that is agreed by everybody so it can | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
actually pass. Secondly, it just to test your patience, to say that | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
absolutely these reports have been far too slow. The reason it is | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
because we are dealing with a country that has never written a | :46:42. | :46:44. | |
report like this in their lives and they are having to learn the hard | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
way to show the transparency that the international community expects. | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
I thank the Minister for those points of clarification which I | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
appreciate. Of course I recognise the way in which United Nations | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
bodies, whether the Human Rights Council or the Security Council, | :47:03. | :47:05. | |
operate. The point I was seeking to make was that the original text from | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
the Netherlands would have enabled the investigation to begin over a | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
year ago, because of the diplomacy hasn't happened. My argument today | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
is that that has been a missed opportunity. We could have started | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
at a much earlier stage. The point I would like to make which was made by | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
my honourable friend, is this process is slow because we are | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
talking about a fledgling state. Saudi Arabia. This is still a very | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
young state which is not used to this level of scrutiny and | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
transparency. And so it will take a long time for these reports to come | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
out. The honourable lady anticipates the final remarks I want to make in | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
this speech because she used the word slow, the minister used the | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
word slow, I used the word glacial. I think it is glacial, it is too | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
slow. The substantial point I look forward to the Minister responding | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
to when he speaks in the debate, at what point will the British | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
government take the view that we need to move to an independent | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
enquiry? I quoted from six months ago the government saying that the | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
British government is not opposed to calls for an independent | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
international enquiry, but first and foremost we want to see the Saudi | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
Arabian government investigate. We've had that for 14 months. How | :48:26. | :48:28. | |
much longer do we have to wait before we can move to an independent | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
investigation? I wonder whether he and others are aware that the MoD | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
had delivered two training sessions in Saudi Arabia on the process of | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
investigating alleged violations of international humanitarian law. I'm | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
sure he'd hoped that during those training sessions the MoD underlined | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
the importance of dealing with these matters in an expedited manner. | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
Absolutely and I'm sure the Minister will have more to say on that. Of | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
course, if that is the purpose of those sessions, and it is reminding | :49:01. | :49:05. | |
all parties they have obligations, it is vital that that happens. My | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
belief, and the view that was taken not just by the International | :49:11. | :49:12. | |
Development Committee but other select committees of this House, was | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
that we will only get the full investigation that we need if it is | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
completely independent. I think the time has come, has more than, and is | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
long overdue, for us as a country to move to support a fully independent, | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
international investigation. It is not acceptable for us to wait | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
indefinitely for the Saudi Arabians to conduct their own investigations | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
while people are still dying in this conflict. In talking about an | :49:42. | :49:52. | |
enquiry, Morocco have 15 jets, Jordan have 15 jets. It's not Saudi | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
Arabia, it's the Arab League as well. UAE have 30 jets and are they | :49:57. | :50:06. | |
involved in this enquiry? As I made clear throughout every intervention | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
on this, the enquiry will be into all allegations made against any | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
party to the conflict. It is quite clear that the Saudis lead this | :50:14. | :50:20. | |
coalition and for their alleged violations, they will be | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
investigated. My honourable friend reminded us earlier the Iranians | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
will also require investigation as well. Very briefly, who dropped the | :50:29. | :50:36. | |
bomb is then? In the allegations, who do we know who dropped these air | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
strikes? Predominately Saudi Arabia, there is little doubt about that. | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
The Saudis have the predominant airpower. But it isn't only about | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
the alleged violations that involve airpower, it is about all of the | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
alleged violations including shelling by the Houthis, that must | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
be investigated, actions by all sides. That is the purpose of saying | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
today that we want to see an independent international | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
investigation. I'll finish with this. I think this motion enables us | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
as a house to come together. It enables us to put to one side the | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
different points of view there are on the question of UK arms sales to | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
Saudi Arabia and others, this motion is not about that. And I reiterate | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
that while the International Development Committee and the | :51:27. | :51:28. | |
business select committee took one view on arms sales and the Foreign | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
Affairs Committee took a different view on arms sales, all three | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
committees took the view we should have an independent, UN led | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
investigation. I think today provides this House an opportunity | :51:42. | :51:48. | |
to send a very clear message to the government but also to the wider, | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
international community, that we want to see progress, in fact, we | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
want to seek urgent and immediate progress to enable a fully | :51:58. | :52:03. | |
independent investigation to take place. The question is on the order | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
paper. Before I call the next person to speak it will be obvious to the | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
House that there will be a great many people who wish to speak this | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
afternoon, that there is limited time. I would like to try not to | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
impose a time limit because the debate flows better if we don't have | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
a time limit. I trust honourable members to behave in a courteous | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
manner to their colleagues by speaking for around seven minutes. | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
If lots of people speak for considerably more than that, we will | :52:36. | :52:41. | |
have a time limit and that will be unfair to some people. I know that I | :52:42. | :52:48. | |
can trust Alistair Burt to begin. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. | :52:49. | :52:56. | |
Could I begin firstly by thanking the honourable gentleman the | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
chairman of the committee and his colleagues for a very thorough | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
report, that we are going to debate, for both committees and the way he's | :53:06. | :53:11. | |
introduced what is a difficult and complex situation. Please to welcome | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
my honourable friend Minister for the Middle East and International | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
development in their places and we will listen very carefully to their | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
responses. I start simply by saying I was Minister for the Middle East | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
between 2010 and 2013, I was also responsible for arms control within | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
the department. I have some background on these difficult | :53:32. | :53:37. | |
issues. I don't want to spend a huge amount of time on the humanitarian | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
statistics, simply because we are well aware of them. The honourable | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
gentleman got them into the public domain quite effectively. I'd also | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
like to thank very much the library of the House of Commons for | :53:51. | :53:52. | |
producing another excellent background brief. I'd also like to | :53:53. | :54:00. | |
thank Stephen O'Brien for his remarkable work through the UN | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
relief agency. Just a quote from him, to put one quite on the order | :54:05. | :54:13. | |
paper if I may. When he spoke about the recent attack on the funeral, | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
the attack took place against the backdrop of a desperately worsening | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
humanitarian situation, four out of every five of Yemen's 20 million | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
people in need of immediate assistance. He said, I was in Sana'a | :54:28. | :54:34. | |
and saw the heartbreaking situation for myself. Parents struggling to | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
put food in the mouths of their children once a date, entire | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
communities terrifyingly affected by conflict and without access to basic | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
services or livelihoods. The issue is always not simply the relief of | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
the humanitarian pressures. We can do more on that, that doesn't solve | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
the problem. I want to talk about the elements of the motion of the | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
conflict and the impact on civilians, and how this conflict can | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
be resolved. To me, that is the most important thing. If the humanitarian | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
crisis is to be ended it is through an the conflict. I am exceptionally | :55:09. | :55:15. | |
fond of Yemen. My visit from 2010-2013 not only introduced me to | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
some of the leaders there, but also in 2011 some of the young people, | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
some of the women in the squares in Sana'a who helped to start to change | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
the country then. Things haven't gone well and the people of Yemen | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
have been betrayed once again by those who have responsibility for | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
them in their own country. I hope the spark of reform that was there | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
is not lost in the Yemen of the future. And I hope that the | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
political settlement which will eventually come, will include those | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
who hadn't been included in the past. Because they have a role to | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
play. The reason we have the conflict is because of that betrayal | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
in the past, the manipulation of all sites in the conflict, of various | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
conflicts over a length of time. The ability to use aid money that went | :56:03. | :56:08. | |
into the country for the wrong purposes. The failure of governance, | :56:09. | :56:13. | |
the failure of a process to deal with internal grievances that | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
included the Houthis, all of this has led to a situation where it | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
suits some to continue the conflict internally but the cost is borne by | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
the people of Yemen. It is essential that we recognise and understand | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
that. It is understandable from the outside that we focus on the | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
humanitarian crisis, and also to a degree, that we focus on the role of | :56:36. | :56:43. | |
Saudi Arabia. It is essential to recognise that if we want to make a | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
difference, we have to look at and understand why the conflict has | :56:49. | :56:51. | |
persisted as long as it has. The reason it exists is because it | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
exists on the back of that civil strife that has been going on a long | :56:56. | :56:57. | |
time. It exists because Yemen is generally | :56:58. | :57:04. | |
important, it matters, it shouldn't be forgotten, it shouldn't be | :57:05. | :57:12. | |
forgotten country. In the busy humanitarian sense, this is a | :57:13. | :57:15. | |
country of art, culture, music, this is a country of gentle people who | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
given a great deal to the world, it's terrible that in our time we | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
associated with the conflict that we do. Secondly its geographical | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
position, it overlooks important ceilings and the Houthis have attack | :57:28. | :57:34. | |
ships in the area. If there's an stability in the region it matters | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
to us. This may be a far-away place of which many people may not know | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
very but it matters. Accordingly its location, the ability to exploit | :57:44. | :57:51. | |
that ungoverned space by Al-Qaeda which can direct attacks towards us | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
and others in the West, it becomes increasingly a matter of concern and | :57:57. | :57:59. | |
importance to us and the instability in the region generally, none of us | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
in the House need any further information about that. | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
Understanding that gives us an understanding of why the coalition | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
came together, quite it needs a UN resolution and wind the United | :58:13. | :58:14. | |
Kingdom has an involvement. The kingdom of Saudi Arabia is directly | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
affected by instability in Yemen. Firstly, it can be and has been | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
physically attacked between 2015 and 2016 some 37 ballistic missiles were | :58:26. | :58:35. | |
fired by Houthi rebels to Saudi Arabia inflicting damage. Sometimes | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
it's got to be purely an internal issue in Yemen and the Houthis not | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
considered to be well armed but they are indeed. These micelles supplied | :58:45. | :58:54. | |
by North Korea in the 90s have a range of 300 kilometres and are | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
being shot down by US Patriot defence missile systems procured by | :58:58. | :59:05. | |
Saudi Arabia from the United States. As the honourable gentleman | :59:06. | :59:06. | |
indicates, there are serious armaments in the area and causing | :59:07. | :59:13. | |
concern to all sides and the reason why the coalition is there and I | :59:14. | :59:16. | |
would maintain that it is in the United Kingdom's interest to | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
continue to support the coalition to support the partners in the | :59:21. | :59:23. | |
coalition and to recognise what is being challenged there. It is not | :59:24. | :59:32. | |
only the loss of a democratically supported government but it's the | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
degree of influence has already been mentioned by Iraq. The Iranians have | :59:38. | :59:45. | |
said publicly that they see the city is yet another B Holt and the risk | :59:46. | :59:51. | |
and of that is a regime with a very clear intent to destabilise the | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
region, to use terrorism to do so and to threaten stability in other | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
areas. The consequence of that, not only an unstable region but for | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
those outside is that the degree of risk to United Kingdom and others is | :00:05. | :00:07. | |
increased. Accordingly the outcome of this conflict, if it is a | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
conflict in which Iranians are successful and terrorism are | :00:14. | :00:15. | |
successful is not in the United Kingdom's interest. The honourable | :00:16. | :00:22. | |
member mentions less than 20 scud strikes which are to be deplored. | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
The coalition air forces are engaging in 150 air strikes and more | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
per day was that there is a disproportionality here which | :00:33. | :00:34. | |
everyone in this house should recognise. It's very easy for us in | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
these comfortable benches in Westminster to talk about a | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
disproportionality and a conflict far away. The point I'm making to | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
the honourable gentleman is that in the Andy King we've had a focus on | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
the activities of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia without truly | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
understanding why it's engages, why the coalition is there and by the | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
United Kingdom has an interest in this and I simply wanted to put that | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
on the record, it does not in any way minimise the reason and the need | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
for humanitarian law to be respected, for the activities of | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
those who engage in warfare to conduct according to the rules but | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
it does come into the argument which is really made as to why on earth we | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
are engaged anyway and why the outcome of it matters to do United | :01:18. | :01:27. | |
Kingdom. Just finally. I have enormous respect for him and his | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
experience and listening very carefully to what he has to say but | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
for me the crucial issue here is about respect for international and | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
humanitarian law, what is his answer to the point that I raised and what | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
point would be like to look at these matters independently rather than | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
leaving it to the Saudis to lead the investigation? I think that point | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
comes when the United Kingdom government is not satisfied that the | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia can fulfil its obligations. At that stage I | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
don't believe that position has been reached. I'm sure the minister will | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
talk about the nature of our engagement with the Saudi Arabia and | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
how it affects as he says a state and indeed a group of states through | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
the GCC that are engaged in a conflict in a manner they haven't | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
been before. There is an important point, if we expect people another | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
part of the world to be responsible for their own defence and security | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
then they are going to have to get on with it and they're learning some | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
of the processes, that is happening at present and secondly the nature | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
of our engagement, I refer all colleagues to the report by Frank | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
Gardner of the BBC just before Christmas he reported and published | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
something on the BBC website, it's very good, most of us recognise that | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
Frank Gardner is a pretty independent voice parties looked at | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
the nature of engagement, the openness of the Saudi authorities in | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
dealing with him, explaining what they do, the openness of the Foreign | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
Minister Saudi Arabia coming to this house of which any member of this | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
chamber had access to to talk about these issues to question in a manner | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
not before is an important step forward. So everything we know is by | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
no means perfect, by no means clear but the steps that have been taken | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
by the British Government to encourage full disclosure have been | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
important. I must close because Madam Deputy Speaker was generous | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
and I want to finish on this. We are beginning to learn that the | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
importance of ending a conflict is paramount to the people who are | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
affected by it but there are good outcomes and their are less than | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
good outcomes and unless we are involved is something we can see | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
outcomes to conflict that are not in our long-term interest and not in | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
the interest of stability in the area, that is why we should continue | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
to support our allies who are working through the coalition, | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
continue to be engaged fully with them and to recognise that Aaron 's | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
rest is lie in a situation where does not create a terrorist cell in | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
Yemen, does not see Hezbollah type operation active in Yemen and that | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
those states that Opel is that a right to consider that their | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
long-term stability and ours is best satisfied by a solution which ends | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
the conflict and puts in place a democratic government supported by | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
you many is and political process, not the outside interference of | :04:18. | :04:18. | |
Iran. If anyone should be allowed to | :04:19. | :04:29. | |
exceed their six minutes as the honourable member for North East | :04:30. | :04:31. | |
Bedfordshire. He's worth all the minutes that he speaks about this | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
very important subject because we recognise those of us who'd been in | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
the all-party Yemen group and I've chaired it or almost as long as | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
President Szalai was president of Yemen, 26 years. He has always been | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
when he was in government and indeed now he's out of government very | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
aware of the importance of this beautiful country and his personal | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
concern that it is being hacked and it is suffering every single day. He | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
describes Yemen as the forgotten war. I'm extremely proud of being a | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
member of this house because what has been very clear over the last | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
few months is that Yemen is not the forgotten war in this house. Foreign | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
Office questions on Tuesday of this week, 48 hours ago, 26 minutes in | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
total of the 45 minutes available work dedicated to some aspect of the | :05:27. | :05:35. | |
situation in Yemen. In addition to members of the all-party group, the | :05:36. | :05:47. | |
member for Portsmouth South, a fellow we hosted Yemen day for the | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
first time in a number of years when we had excellent speeches from the | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
two ministers representing the government today. From | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
one importantly we could interact with members of the year | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
Yemeni community. It's the people of Yemen who are suffering. It's the | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
families of the people of Yemen who live in different parts of this | :06:14. | :06:22. | |
country, some in Liverpool, I'm not sure if any in Warwick in Leamington | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
but I'm so pleased that the honourable member has co-sponsored | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
this debate but they're all over the country and they feel powerless to | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
do what they need to do in order to bring this matter to the attention | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
of this house and the international community. So I'm delighted that yet | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
again we're having a debate on Yemen and that this on Thursday afternoon, | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
when it is not usually this well attended, so many members are coming | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
and we probably could have had a much longer debate mad and they | :06:51. | :06:52. | |
probably could have had a much longer debate Madam Vicky the | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
Speaker. I want to confine my remarks -- Madam Deputy Speaker. I | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
want to convey the urgency of a ceasefire and the importance of a | :07:03. | :07:04. | |
ceasefire and well, the Shadow Foreign Secretary said at Foreign | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
Office questions on Tuesday and the focus of the opposition fund which | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
is also the focus of the government. I hate it when we fight over Yemen, | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
whether it is on party lines on whether it is about the role of | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
Saudi Arabia or what is happening as far as the investigations are | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
concerned and we clearly need investigations as the motion | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
suggests. I want is desperately to unite behind one concept, the | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
importance of the ceasefire. A few weeks ago I was at the UN security | :07:39. | :07:47. | |
council because of the ability of Matthew Rycroft to get | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
parliamentarians in, I watched my fights ever after 30 years in this | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
house, my first-ever live session of the security Council and every | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
single member of the security council wanted to do something in | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
support of a ceasefire. It was unanimous. All the permanent | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
members, everybody, they had little digs at each other and asked for a | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
role but the most important thing is that all the countries spoke with | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
one voice. And that's why it's so important that the draft resolution | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
that is really our resolution because we are at the pen holders | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
should be tabled before the United Nations as a matter of urgency. And | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
I know what the Minister said to the shadow minister that really terrible | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
resolutions when we know they will be implemented but I don't have the | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
figures as to how many resolutions of the UN have actually been | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
implemented. They have got about 2500. But the fact is we need that | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
resolution because the best way to guarantee that people are focusing | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
on the peace process and the ceasefire is if the United Nations | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
speaks with one voice. That is why I seek a timetable from the government | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
today a timetable to ensure that we get that resolution for the Security | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
Council. I was delighted with the ceasefire that was brokered over | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
Syria that the Russians and the Turks were able to make sure we had | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
peace in Syria. That was wobbly but this was followed by the UN | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
endorsing the ceasefire. If you can have it in Syria, why can't we have | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
it in Yemen? And if we take the Foreign Secretary at his word and | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
I'm very pleased with the role he's played and the honesty with which | :09:33. | :09:34. | |
the Foreign Secretary has spoken about Yemen, then the British | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
Foreign Secretary working with the new Secretary of State and with the | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
Russians who are now the friends of the Americans or will be after the | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
20th of January, the Chinese will go along with it, I met the Chinese | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
ambassador recently and asked if China would support the ceasefire | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
and he said they would and the French are on board. Five permanent | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
members are going to be on board and the other countries are so | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
supportive, I think we can get this through. So pleased when he replies | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
could he tell us when that timetable is going to be achieved. My final | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
point is about the aid agencies, the chairman of the International | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
Development Select Committee has read out the scorecard a shame, the | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
3.3 million women and children who are malnourished, the 370,000 | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
children who are in immediate risk of starvation, the 7 million who do | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
not know where their next meal is coming from, the 10 million who have | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
no access to safe drinking water, the four fifths of the entire | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
population, 21 million, equivalent to the populations of London, | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
Birmingham, Liverpool and Glasgow combined who are in desperate need | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
of urgent assistance and these incredible organisations from | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
medicines through to Islamic relief, the world foundation of KF IMC. | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
Oxfam, the disasters emergency fund, all these people trying as the | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
honourable member, another person who knows about Yemen so well when | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
he served there, where is the aid going, the aid cannot get in | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
effectively unless the planes land at Sana'a and unless the ports can | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
accept the aid. We have to have a ceasefire. If there is a goal I have | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
this year and my new Year 's resolution, if we can have a | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
collective New Year 's resolution for the House is that by the 31st of | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
December we will have peace in Yemen a proper political solution and | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
until we get that members of this house will continue to raise this | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
subject so the forgotten war is never forgotten and we bring peace | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
to this beautiful Oedipal country. -- beautiful. Stewart. | :11:53. | :12:02. | |
The south-east tip of the Arabian Peninsular has been a matter of | :12:03. | :12:15. | |
importance to us for at least 200 years. It was crucial to the | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
functioning of the British Empire, and particularly after 1869 with the | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
Suez Canal opening, when the route to India was much shorter. When oil | :12:28. | :12:36. | |
came to replace coal, Aden became even more important. Time passed and | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
the Aden Protectorate became part of our Empire. And indeed the British | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
government had to ruin it through 23 sheikdoms, tribal areas. These | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
tribal areas, 23 of them, were not great friends with one another, and | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
that remains to this day. We can't just think of them, as the Houthis, | :13:00. | :13:07. | |
they are all different tribes. That's the problem, that's where I | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
came in. In the 50s when the honourable gentleman and his sister | :13:12. | :13:20. | |
were born, when I was there in Aden... LAUGHTER I understand you | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
were born there and your sister might not have been? I'm sorry, the | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
honourable gentleman's system might not have been. I was definitely not | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
born there and I was a little boy there. My father was with the Aden | :13:34. | :13:42. | |
Protectorate and... I give way. The worst thing about giving an | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
intervention from the sedentary position is the honorary gentleman | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
didn't hear what I said. We were both born there. It's just he said | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
we were born when he arrived in Aden I was just making the point the two | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
events weren't connected! LAUGHTER Thank God for that! My interest in | :14:02. | :14:11. | |
Aden comes from my time when I was a little boy. I loved the place. It | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
was a great place to grow up between 1954-57. What a fabulous place to | :14:19. | :14:26. | |
be, if you were on the right side. Since 1990 Yemen has gone from bad | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
to worse and has become a sort of cockpit which some say is a fighting | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
area between the two branches of Islam. That may be the case but | :14:36. | :14:48. | |
don't think they are oh no -- they are the same on both sides, they are | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
not. It does stretch credulity the uranium regime has defined the | :14:55. | :15:03. | |
Houthis as Shia -- rode the Irani and regime. It is more mischief | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
making Barnby Orthodox theological position. And into that cockpit, | :15:07. | :15:16. | |
more mischief making comes with the arrival of AQAP and Daesh. These are | :15:17. | :15:28. | |
not native to Yemen. These are not people who really should be a | :15:29. | :15:37. | |
Yemeni. These are people who came in from outside. And actually, it is a | :15:38. | :15:45. | |
great tragedy that the Security Council resolution 2316, which was | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
passed unanimously, has not had much effect. In a way it is a disgrace on | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
the world. It had so little effect. I give way again to a gentleman who | :15:56. | :16:03. | |
talk such sense on this subject. You referred to Isis, of course prices | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
are developing in a vacuum. What the UN panel identified was where this | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
vacuum exists, where the Houthis threaten from one side and there is | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
no stabilisation force on the ground, that people, towns, | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
communities, are turning to the black flag as a way of community | :16:21. | :16:29. | |
against what is a sub sect of Shia, the Houthis, coming at them. They | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
are using it as a defence mechanism. That is the problem, an absence of | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
any government and people wanting to protect themselves. As ever it's the | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
little people who are suffering in this war. 7000 people have died, | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
apparently. To me, that rings bells with a number of people killed at | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
Srebrenica which I was kind of involved with all those years ago. | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
When Srebrenica occurred, the world suddenly got its backside in gear | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
and sorted it out. I go back to my original point, which is let's hope | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
2017 sort this out. Because clearly, Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
political solution that must be had somewhere rather. Firstly, people | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
have got to meet both sides have got to meet. They've tried and it's very | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
difficult, but that's the only way forward. This diplomat from | :17:27. | :17:36. | |
Mauritius seems to be respected on all sides. That is the first thing | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
you require, a chairman or chairwoman who is respected. | :17:42. | :17:50. | |
Negotiations must actually be protected. My second point is that | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
those people negotiating should be able to do so in safety. They've had | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
some problems in the Gulf, so perhaps moved to Geneva, the | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
traditional place for negotiations if necessary. The third point must | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
be a ceasefire that will hold. The recognition of ceasefires, is that | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
although they are written on paper, they inevitably won't hold. They | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
will never be perfect and therefore we almost should expect the -- that | :18:23. | :18:30. | |
if there is a ceasefire there there will be breaches and we've got to | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
live with that. I will give way. As the honourable gentleman been able | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
to seek the draft text of the resolution the British have drafted | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
and not yet put before the Security Council? Clause one calls for a | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
ceasefire and references the UN route map. Has the honourable | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
gentleman seen up and agree that maybe the basis for negotiations? I | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
haven't read it but it sounds very sensible and logical. Everything has | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
got to be sensible and logical in sorting out problems. Of course I've | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
already alluded to the fact, AQAP and Daesh are not local. There is a | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
point of joint between the protagonists, they all hate these | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
people who have come in from outside. They are part of the enemy | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
and they should not be involved. My fifth points is that we should | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
withdraw, there should be a withdrawal of Armed Forces from | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
Sana'a and other towns. This will be very difficult but it probably | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
involves the fact we require UN peacekeepers of some sort. I think | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
of the model of the British going into Rhodesia and separating people. | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
That's good. We can't do it because whoever the peacekeepers are, | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
probably should be from an Islamic State. But good, military officers, | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
and good, military troops, should go in, if there is to be some kind of | :19:55. | :20:02. | |
resolution. The UN will have two grip this one. Obviously a political | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
solution is the objective. I very much hope that this year we will get | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
it. For goodness sake, if Yemen is a forgotten war, colleagues, if Yemen | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
is a forgotten war, let's not make it forgotten and let's actually make | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
it a forgotten war by next year because it's over. Thank you. Mike | :20:24. | :20:31. | |
Gibbs. Madam Deputy Speaker I, unlike several who have spoken in | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
the debate already, have never been to Yemen. But I was last September | :20:35. | :20:46. | |
in demand. What is interesting about Oman which has a border with Yemen, | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
is that Oman has managed in a very difficult situation to stay out of | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
this conflict. The Iranians are trying to smuggle weaponry into | :20:59. | :21:06. | |
Yemen through Oman. Yemenis fleeing from the conflict are being treated | :21:07. | :21:15. | |
in Omani hospitals. And there is a potential for the issue to have a | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
wider role. Interestingly, and this is probably not widely known, the | :21:23. | :21:32. | |
Omanis are not or Sunni, they are a particularly small group of people, | :21:33. | :21:41. | |
and they have a particular distinctive position within the | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
history of Islam. But so did the group we now call the Houthis. | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
Although it is quite clear that this is a regional conflict with Saudi | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
Arabia and the GCC countries, and as my friend said, countries from North | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
Africa also involved as part of the UN mandated comic UN supported | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
coalition, on the other side you have Irani and Hezbollah, and | :22:10. | :22:22. | |
Hezbollah are commanders -- have commanders who died in Yemen. In a | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
sense, what we have seen in Syria with an alliance of a group who | :22:27. | :22:40. | |
worry particular branch, close to Houthis but complicated -- Shiism | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
but complicated, in alliance with Iran and Russia. In the Yemen we | :22:47. | :22:56. | |
have something similar. We have a coalition of Sunni governments, | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
supporting a government which is weak, in what has become a failed | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
state. On the other side you've got a coalition with the former | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
President, meddling and refusing to accept the transition to the new | :23:12. | :23:18. | |
government. Former President. You are in a position where the idea of | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
a political solution is probably even more difficult than Syria. | :23:24. | :23:31. | |
Because the United States is not in any real position to influence the | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
outcome here, whereas Russia has an influence in Syria. This potentially | :23:37. | :23:46. | |
has serious ramifications. The Houthis fired missiles at ships of | :23:47. | :23:56. | |
the United Arab Emirates. They also fired missiles at the United States | :23:57. | :24:03. | |
naval vessels. There is a potential of the widening of this conflict, | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
and as a regional security issue, it is quite right that the United | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
Nations Security Council has too engage with it. The situation, | :24:15. | :24:26. | |
however, is not one where we can simply say that Saudi Arabia and | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
Irani can solve this. Because the actors internally are not simply | :24:33. | :24:42. | |
proxies for Irani Saudi Arabia. Therefore, to crudely say we should | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
condemn the British government's support to the Saudis, or, on the | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
other side, we should condemn the Iranians's support for the Houthis, | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
is not going to take us anywhere. And I suspect, sadly, even if we | :24:59. | :25:06. | |
were to have a regional deal whereby Irani and Saudi Arabia have a big | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
bargain, and they agree a common position on the Israel Palestine | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
conflict, you would still find this conflict in Yemen might still be | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
continuing because of these factors. It needs urgency, international | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
involvement, and remember, these people are amongst the very poorest | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
people in the wilds. They are suffering not just warfare, but they | :25:32. | :25:39. | |
are also suffering terrible poverty, partly because of mismanagement and | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
misgovernment over many years. Chris White. Thank you. I am pleased to | :25:43. | :25:50. | |
have secured this debate alongside the honourable member for Liverpool | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
West Derby and bank the Backbench Business Committee for granting us | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
this opportunity. The conflict in Yemen between the Saudi led | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
coalition and the Houthi rebels has created grave instability and | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
danger. Amnesty International has stated the conflict has seen | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
violations of international humanitarian law committed by both | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
sides with impunity. UN reports suggest around 60% of air strikes | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
during the war have been conducted by Saudi led forces. The committees | :26:24. | :26:31. | |
on arms airport controls had an enquiry last year on the sale of UK | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
arms to Saudi Arabia. It is clear to me that there is an urgent need for | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
the government to suspend such licences, pending the results of an | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
independent UN led investigation into potential breaches of | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
international humanitarian law. This was the position taken by the joint | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
report of the Business, Innovation and Skills and international | :26:58. | :26:59. | |
development select committees, in conclusion of that enquiry. | :27:00. | :27:07. | |
Meanwhile, since the report, the government has repeated its view | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
that the Saudis should be allowed to conduct their own investigations. | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
is a Saudi led joint incidents assessment team has only initiated | :27:18. | :27:25. | |
something around 15 investigations, almost two years into the conflict. | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
The number of credible allegations are well over 100. Furthermore, | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
feedback that the team is limited to press releases and press conferences | :27:36. | :27:43. | |
rather than comprehensive reports. During the Defence Secretary in a | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
statement on the 19th of December I ask my right honourable friend the | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
circumstances under which the government would pause arms sales to | :27:51. | :28:00. | |
Saudi Arabia. If we have evidence of international humanitarian law being | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
breached, I point to the devastating twin attack on the funeral hall in | :28:05. | :28:12. | |
Sana'a killing 140 and injuring as many as 500. According to UN the | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
attacks were minutes apart targeting a location where it was known that | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
senior Houthi officials were assembling between families and | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
children. The US has launched a review into that attack and have a | :28:28. | :28:36. | |
position as guided munitions worth around $350 --'s $50 million citing | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
systemic and endemic problems with Saudi targeting in Yemen. -- $350 | :28:42. | :28:49. | |
million. For an attack to not be able to distinguish those fighting | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
in a conflict and civilians points to international humanitarian law | :28:57. | :29:04. | |
being broken. We should be an example with our licensing regime | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
the response of these challenges. Criteria of our arms export | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
licensing regime are busy authorisation to arm themselves if | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
there is a clear risk of a violation of international humanitarian law. I | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
asked the minister and his response today what point is this threshold | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
met. The evidence that the committee of arms export controls heard was | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
the compelling in suggesting that this is very much a clear risk. I | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
have heard arguments that claim if we don't supply arms a nation with a | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
weaker licensing regime will do so instead. I would pre-empt any such | :29:46. | :29:53. | |
point today and suggest this is no way to approach any situation, not | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
least the sale of weapons. We must be accountable for our own actions, | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
particularly if we are to be an example in cementing. Cementing the | :30:05. | :30:12. | |
rule of law into our practices was that such a position does not fulfil | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
our obligations of the criteria and the law and unless we wish to become | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
one of these other weaker countries we should maintain that position. A | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
legal opinion in December 2015 by matrix Chambers argues that the sale | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
of UK arms constitutes a violation of our obligations under national, | :30:34. | :30:41. | |
international and EU law. I pre-empt the widely recognised point that our | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
strategic relationship with Saudi Arabia is one that must be | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
maintained. I absolutely agree with this position but would say that | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
this does not extend to as acting as its proxy defence. We pride | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
ourselves in a relationship with Saudi Arabia but that must not be a | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
mechanism to deflect criticism. Our close ties should not be used to | :31:05. | :31:18. | |
support... Thank you very much for giving way. The primary purpose of | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
this debate on my own personal feelings is the people of Yemen and | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
the objective is clear. It is a ceasefire. That's the primary | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
objective in order to relieve the situation in Yemen. Stopping arms | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
sales to Saudi Arabia as a bogus argument and will put to him this, | :31:43. | :31:52. | |
you've seen the arms sales of Russians to President Assad and you | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
seen the devastation in Aleppo. I find it incredible that you can make | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
the argument about ethical arms sales and our ethical arms sales and | :32:02. | :32:08. | |
then allow Saudi Arabia using our petrol pounds to go and buy arms for | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
whoever they want and you see the devastation if they were to buy | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
Russian arms in Aleppo, it's a ridiculous argument. Thank you for | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
the final point. I would suggest were the honourable member talks | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
about ethics, he is missing my point entirely. This is not necessarily | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
about ethics, this is about the rule of law and the criteria for our arms | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
exports licensing carrot here are -- criteria. Would you still might like | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
to make a point? I would echo the comments of my Lancashire neighbour. | :32:47. | :32:55. | |
Also, the question of the relationship with Saudi Arabia, with | :32:56. | :32:57. | |
the honourable gentleman not recognise that through the good | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
offices of government ministers like the Minister in his place, the | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
behaviour of Saudi Arabia has changed and accepting they are no | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
longer going to use cluster bombs. I would answer very briefly to say | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
that the government had already been in discussions with Saudi Arabia | :33:17. | :33:24. | |
regarding cluster munitions in 2010 and I don't think the Saudi Arabian | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
government took a large amount of notice of our government persuasion | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
until after the events when these munitions were identified. The chair | :33:36. | :33:43. | |
of the committee is making a strong speech and I wonder if he agrees | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
with me that there's a much wider principle, this house on both sides | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
and governments have led the world in arguing for the arms trade is | :33:50. | :33:56. | |
treated and the other arms export control criteria so we have a rules | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
-based system for our defence industry to operate within, one that | :34:01. | :34:03. | |
adheres to humanitarian principles. Does he not agree that principle is | :34:04. | :34:11. | |
at stake if we don't adhere to it? I'm sorry, I'm probably getting well | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
past the Deputy Speaker's patients. The Defence Secretary's statement on | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
the 19th, to go back to the specific question learned that the | :34:24. | :34:25. | |
government's findings that British made cluster munitions had been used | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
by the Saudi led coalition in May 20 16. This has a number of | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
implications as is cause for concern but challenged the Minister on the | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
responsiveness of our exports resume. It's on unacceptable that an | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
international ally uses a weapon manufactured in Britain with | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
complete disregard for the 2008 Convention on cluster munitions of | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
which the UK is a signatory. I will continue, my apologies. If I get a | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
strange look I will give way shortly. We are duty bound by the | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
2008 Convention to prevent use of cluster munitions and die as what | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
steps were taken to him as the Saudis of our opposition of the use | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
and convince them to decommission these weapons. I recognised the | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
government has not sold cluster munitions to Saudi Arabia since 1989 | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
but it is important to consider the durability of arm munitions. I will | :35:20. | :35:27. | |
give way. We do know that the UK Government stopped supplying cluster | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
munitions to Saudi Arabia in 1989. However we also know that the UK | :35:33. | :35:35. | |
Government continued to maintain those horrific weapons until 2010, | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
now that the minister will tell us why that contract was in place for | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
21 years but the crucial point I think is and does the member agreed | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
me that the accountability should extend beyond simply sales but | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
maintenance contract also. I would agree with the honourable member | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
that it will be instinctive year the Minister's response for that. The | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
humanitarian crisis requires an urgent and comprehensive response | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
from the international community. Everyone in this chamber agrees with | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
that. As each month goes by and casualties grow, the case for an | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
independent UN led investigation into potential breaches becomes all | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
the more compelling from a UK perspective and to protect our | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
reputation, an example to the world in terms of arms export licences, it | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
is right we suspend our sale of arms to Saudi Arabia until the UN led | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
investigation is completed. Just before I call the next figure I | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
should remind the House a few honourable gentleman this afternoon | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
have used the word you when really they meant one or they should have | :36:46. | :36:53. | |
said the honourable gentleman or the honourable lady. Now I haven't | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
interrupted people because I don't wish to spoil the flow of their | :37:00. | :37:07. | |
arguments but it must be noted that that is inappropriate use of | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
language and the debate does work much better if we keep it in the | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
third person. Yemen is one of the oldest | :37:15. | :37:26. | |
civilisations within the Gulf. A unified Yemeni state was not formed | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
until 1990. I urge members to look at the timeline for this. It has a | :37:34. | :37:41. | |
history of war, assassinations, political, civil and internal | :37:42. | :37:43. | |
conflict and then thrown in earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
landslides. It has a history and the toll of misery in many respects. | :37:49. | :37:57. | |
Then in 1992 along came Al-Qaeda. We have a little of Al-Qaeda initially | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
but then following the 2000 attack on the USS call violence grew from | :38:01. | :38:08. | |
Al-Qaeda. In 2009 Saudi and Yemeni branches merged to form Al-Qaeda in | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
the Arab and insular and the death toll has risen yearly. -- | :38:12. | :38:20. | |
peninsular. The northern -based Houthis, the insurgency against the | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
government started to grow in 2004. The Houthis adhere to a branch of | :38:27. | :38:38. | |
Shia Islam. The president of Yemen following unification with the South | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
in 1990. He was forced to leave office in 2012, since when he's | :38:43. | :38:51. | |
fought alongside the Houthis two control Yemen. During his time in | :38:52. | :38:59. | |
power he amassed a fortune between 30 and 62 billion. The report claims | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
the assets including gold, cash, property and other commodities are | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
held in various names in at least 20 countries. In 2012 the President was | :39:10. | :39:20. | |
inaugurated as Houthis the took over large parts of the country. The | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
president is supported by the Gulf cooperation Council and the military | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
alliance said is often led by Saudi Arabia. In April 2015 the UN | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
security Council impose an arms embargo on Yemen's rebels and allies | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
including the former president and his son. That arms embargo has been | :39:40. | :39:50. | |
broken many times by the Iranians. The 2016 global terrorism index | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
lists Yemen as fitting the sixth highest level of terrorism in the | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
world. Of the 20 most fatal terrorist attacks in 2015, two were | :40:03. | :40:13. | |
in Yemen carried out by Houthi extremists. In 2015 1591 Yemen were | :40:14. | :40:22. | |
killed in terrorist attacks and the groups carried out 90% of the | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
attacks. The Houthi, Al-Qaeda and now a new group, the Isa affiliates. | :40:28. | :40:37. | |
Houthi Still claimed responsibility for 63% of the deaths and 62% of the | :40:38. | :40:46. | |
attacks. The majority of which targets private citizens and | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
property. There is no doubt that violence as Gulf Yemen. The country | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
has a history of conflict between its religious, ethnic groups. Its | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
leadership has a history of failing the ordinary people of Yemen. It is | :41:03. | :41:09. | |
naive to suggest that Yemen is not also a proxy battle for dominance | :41:10. | :41:17. | |
between Sunni and Shia powers of drawing in wealthier and more | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
powerful regional countries. The Houthi have also launched attacks on | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
Saudi Arabia, their neighbour. I'm not going to repeat all of the | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
information that we've had about the famine and disease and the death | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
toll is that we're seeing as a result of the conflict. This | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
disastrous situation has reached a stalemate. | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
Ceasefires and peace deals have been made and broken. There doesn't seem | :41:49. | :41:55. | |
to be any side that sees a real interest in reaching and maintaining | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
a settlement. In a region where the horrific barrel bombing of civilians | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
in Aleppo, a rising tide of refugees, murder, rape, torture is | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
of followers different religious groups are frequent, the warring | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
parties in the conflict have me Houthi no real impetus in getting | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
behind peace initiatives. The UN special envoy has worked hard, and I | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
appreciate that. There's little in the motion before us today that I | :42:28. | :42:29. | |
don't think anyone in house would not support. I'm not going to get | :42:30. | :42:41. | |
into a tit-for-tat argument about whether or not the Saudis are the | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
main problem here, is the coalition the problem here. The problem is, we | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
don't have a clear road map to resolve this conflict. I looked at | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
what I thought was a very, very good report from Chatham House. It's one | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
of the UK's best independent think tank. It is a group that can be | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
trusted to take an impartial view. They point out, as others have, that | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
the conflict is multipolar, fuelled by regional and international | :43:17. | :43:18. | |
support from various parties involved in the fighting. The broad | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
consensus among international policymakers is the it can be | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
brought to a sustainable end is through political mediation. But we | :43:30. | :43:38. | |
need to have tensions that are rife, not only between the two warring | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
factions, between the two ex-presidents, we need to tackle | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
those tensions, because the groups are also deeply divided. So, if you | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
come down on the side of the Houthi, or you come down on the other side, | :43:57. | :44:05. | |
ultimately an ongoing civil war will still emerge. We need a peace | :44:06. | :44:13. | |
process that is more inclusive. I have to say, I wish we would all | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
listen much more to the member for North East Bedfordshire who happens | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
to be one of the great experts in this region. There needs to be a | :44:22. | :44:30. | |
prioritised, elite, we need to move away from prioritising elite level | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
mediation and security concerns, particularly counterterrorism edged | :44:36. | :44:42. | |
tips, to look at the economic needs of the population -- | :44:43. | :44:44. | |
counterterrorism initiatives. The process will need to give equal | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
right to bottom up, grassroots local approach to peace building, | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
alongside top-down, elite led interests, and ensure the political | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
security and economic tracts of the transition are interlinked rather | :44:59. | :45:05. | |
than dealt with separately. Failure to expand representation and to | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
focus on local government will lead to renewed hostilities at a local | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
level, that could push Yemen in a step closer to becoming a chaotic | :45:14. | :45:21. | |
state. There are many reasons why we in the UK need to look with great | :45:22. | :45:29. | |
attention at what is happening in Yemen. If you look at the map, Yemen | :45:30. | :45:38. | |
sits on a narrow waterway linking the red Sea with the Gulf of Aden | :45:39. | :45:46. | |
through which most of the world's oil and trade traverses. Security | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
and stability in the Straits is vital to the whole of the world's | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
economies. Whoever controls the Straits has a potential stranglehold | :45:55. | :46:01. | |
on world colonies. This is a matter of urgent attention to the world. In | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
my view, it is only the United Nations that can speak on behalf of | :46:08. | :46:14. | |
the world. It is to the United Nations that we must turn, and to | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
the United Nations the responsibility for building that | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
bottom down, rather than top-down, coalition of support, for the people | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
of Yemen, is where we must give our support. Rather than dividing into | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
attacks on Saudi Arabia, attacks on Iran. Let's focus on the peace needs | :46:38. | :46:44. | |
of the people of Yemen. Colleagues have used this phrase forgotten war | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
a number of times during this debate. But like to pay to be to | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
many members on all sides of the House to keep bringing the issue of | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
Yemen back to the chamber to ensure it isn't forgotten. There is an | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
acute humanitarian crisis, I don't want to go over those details again, | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
many right honourable members who have spent time in Yemen have given | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
the details. I would like to put on record my thanks and all of ours to | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
the great contribution of our government the ?100 million of Dfid | :47:17. | :47:26. | |
money that has been spent... I can't unfortunately hear the sedentary | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
interventions. I'm very proud we have made that commitment to 0.7%. | :47:31. | :47:38. | |
It is a huge part, says a lot about the coalition government, this | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
government, and our commitment to be an outward looking, global nation. | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
Particularly after the referendum result. Stability and peace in | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
Yemen, it's what we are all here discussing, it is our aim, that's | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
what's right for the people of Yemen. I've had argued its greatly | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
in the interests of all our constituents as well. We've seen | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
that when you have a war zone, when there are failed states, that is | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
where these terrorist organisations thrive. It was Afghanistan, now it | :48:10. | :48:11. | |
was Syria. Where we've got Daesh was Syria. Where we've got Daesh | :48:12. | :48:19. | |
growing up, now they can't get any foothold in Syria they are moving | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
into Turkey. We are providing people who want to kill our constituents | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
with a training ground. The stability of that state can only be | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
in the best interests of how we achieve that. I'm very happy to give | :48:33. | :48:40. | |
way. I wholeheartedly agree, does she share my disappointment there | :48:41. | :48:42. | |
continued to be a small number of members in the House who continue to | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
say we should scrap the aid budgets, scrap Dfid? It is very much in our | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
national security interests and those people suffering in those | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
countries we continue to fund. I agree and I can see a bit of | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
cross-party love growing up. LAUGHTER I don't think he's going to | :49:02. | :49:04. | |
agree with the rest of my speech, but on this week totally agree. This | :49:05. | :49:13. | |
is having a profound affect on the people of Yemen but this has a | :49:14. | :49:16. | |
profound effect on the people of Saudi Arabia and the wider nation. | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
They are suffering from migration and the effects of disease, | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
terrorism on their borders. We've seen, and I've said before in my | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
intervention, Saudi Arabia is a state which has existed only in the | :49:31. | :49:39. | |
decades. It is a state that is in a state of transition. We had projects | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
from some of its leaders about how they will go to further democracy, | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
more representation from women. And from other groups. I think that as | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
an ally, we should support them in that and we should support their | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
government. I was heartened when the Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister came | :50:00. | :50:01. | |
and spoke to members before Christmas about his openness and | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
about how he recognised there is a great challenge in this country. We | :50:06. | :50:13. | |
do not want a situation where Jeddah and Riyadh are controlled by Daesh | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
or AQAP. This is a war which is legal, President Hardy, we can argue | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
about how effective he is as a leader, is the leader that. -- | :50:26. | :50:35. | |
President Hadi. I know the honourable gentleman and I differ on | :50:36. | :50:42. | |
the role of selling armaments to Saudi Arabia and I would echo some | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
of the other comments on that. One must understand that relationships | :50:49. | :50:50. | |
that are brought up in the Middle East, they take a long time, they | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
rely on trust. We have to keep talking to people. And these | :50:56. | :51:02. | |
historical relationships through trade and diplomacy really do take | :51:03. | :51:12. | |
an awful long time. Has she seen the the European Council on foreign | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
relations that has said it is absolutely vital that Europe and the | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
EU keeps a good relationship with the GCC and the Arab League. That is | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
under 2216 and the intervention in Yemen. If we are to resolve this | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
problem, it is about relationships and building relationships, not | :51:33. | :51:34. | |
destroying relationships like the member for Warwick and Leamington | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
spa wants to do. I agree it is about relationships and it's about | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
influence and guidance. The arms export control, what is written in | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
the law is very important and my right honourable friend who was | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
instrumental in overseeing it when he was the minister, that is | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
important and we need to do that. All the Arms export it goes through | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
a rigorous process. The coalition which was their fighting, led by | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
Saudi Arabia but with aura vulnerable other Arab countries, is | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
defending its borders and its interest. Because we've heard since | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
what happened in the early 2000s that we want to get out of the | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
Middle East, they need to be self-sustaining, independent, more | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
democratic. I just need to finish this point before I lose my train of | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
thought! We need to allow them to do that with the guidance that one | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
would expect from an ally and a friend. Having our personnel back | :52:36. | :52:41. | |
explaining about compliance with international humanitarian law, | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
explaining about targeting, this is very important. Again, I don't | :52:45. | :52:51. | |
really like saying what might Labour neighbours... If we aren't in there, | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
who do we really think would be there doing that? This relationship | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
is fundamental, and it is fundamental in terms of trade, | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
security, intelligence and cooperation we get. I'm not going to | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
speak for longer because I know there are more expert voices in this | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
House, I thank the honourable members who are here today speaking | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
in this debate, and I thank all of us must always think, what are we | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
talking about. Is it actually going to protect Yemenis in the long run? | :53:22. | :53:29. | |
Brexit aside, I feel as though this House has spent more time on Yemen | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
than most other issues. That is not a complaint, I would spend as long | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
as I could debating be disastrous situation facing people in Yemen. | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
Sadly for me the evidence is this government isn't entirely listening. | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
The misleading of the British people and international community over | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
Saudi Arabia's intervention and use of cluster weapons in particular is | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
a blot on the record of current and former members of this government. | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
Ministers stuck to their stock phrases of denial, before the | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
Defence Secretary was forced open the worst possible Christmas present | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
and revealed that ministers had misled this House on a number of | :54:10. | :54:12. | |
occasions. I wonder what is the likelihood of any such minister | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
facing sanctions for their part in that cover-up? I'm not holding my | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
breath. Perhaps the ministers concerned were to quit the | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
honourable member for Bournemouth East, he said earlier this week, | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
inadvertently, disingenuously misleading the House, although I'm | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
sure that was probably not the case. At least none of the ministers were | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
so misleading as the spokesman for the Saudi coalition who claimed that | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
Saudi Arabia's British cluster bombs were obsolete and had been | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
destroyed. In fact he declared that Tornado strike aircraft were not | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
configured to drop their weapons. Now that our Defence Secretary has | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
admitted British cluster bombs were used, it is interesting to wonder | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
how, if the Saudis had no aircraft configured to deliver them. To get | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
to the truth of the matter, we may find the governments denial only | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
lasted as long as Saudi Arabia had any British made cluster bombs left | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
to use. Someone appears to have made a calculation that the use of these | :55:13. | :55:15. | |
weapons may be just enough to deliver the kind of victory that the | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
Saudi and UK Government should deny their use until that have been | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
achieved. Given the continuing situation in Yemen, I have to | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
conclude that breaking the code of denial could be because Saudi Arabia | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
has now only a few cluster bombs left to deploy. If it's not the case | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
that stocks have been exhausted and there is evidence the Saudis still | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
hold such weapons, will the government commit to doing all it | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
can to have them withdrawn from service and destroyed, and for Saudi | :55:43. | :55:46. | |
Arabia to sign the convention on cluster munitions? That is what the | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
government is committed to doing, article 21 expressly obliges them to | :55:53. | :55:59. | |
encourage non-members to ratify it. I encourage them to come back to | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
report on progress on obtaining Saudi agreement to signing up to the | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
convention. Interestingly the Convention uniquely allows | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
signatories to cooperate but it doesn't require them to do so. | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
Surely if we believe that cluster bombs shouldn't be used and | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
especially not indiscriminately against civilian targets, is very | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
clear we should not be working in a coalition doing exactly that. In | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
addition to cluster bombs, the people of Yemen face another threat | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
from increasing use of armed reins, especially in targeting so-called | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
high-value Al-Qaeda figures. While the strikes have been part of US | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
operations in other countries, those carried out in Yemen have been | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
criticised for having far fewer safeguards than those in other | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
countries. If that is the case will the government use its bilateral | :56:48. | :56:49. | |
discussions with the Americans to press for a change in their | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
approach? As the incoming administration in Washington take | :56:55. | :56:57. | |
shape, many fear events are moving in on an helpful direction. | :56:58. | :57:12. | |
Unfortunately it seems these are true reflections of his views, for | :57:13. | :57:19. | |
instance that fear of Muslims is irrational. The most concerning | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
aspect was not just a horrible nature of the statement but the | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
shallow hate-mongering video that he was promoting to the world. I have | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
some news for general fund, the president is a Muslim and saw two | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
other leaders Saudi Arabia. Appointing somebody to play a key | :57:36. | :57:40. | |
role in a conflict such as that in Yemen who states it is rational, | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
take all those involved in the conflict frankly defies belief. In | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
an earlier debate in Westminster Hall, the Right Honourable member | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
chided those of us expressing concern about the Saudi coalition's | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
tactics and behaviour and he suggested the situation was too | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
complex for us to understand. He is of course entirely right that the | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
situation is hugely complex, all the more need for an independent | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
investigation but some issues are very clear and saw some of the | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
actions that we must take because the UK's involvement in this | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
situation is deeply regrettable. We must investigate. We must suspend | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
arms sales to said Arabia and clarify exactly what the UK military | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
personnel has been and we must do everything we can to build a | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
consensus around individuals and institutions that can build a new | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
future for Yemen. In that respect and please the United Nations | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
rational and by two Yemen has called a new round of talks at the end of | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
the month to advance the Constitutional process and I'm sure | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
the House will join me in wishing participants well in their | :58:46. | :58:53. | |
endeavours. I cannot say that it's a pleasure to take part in this debate | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
about Yemen today. Must a year ago we discussed this very subject in | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
this chamber and yesterday I reviewed what was said debate | :59:04. | :59:06. | |
undergoes a source was a source of great sadness that I can read that | :59:07. | :59:09. | |
my speech of 12 months ago because nothing has changed. Except the one | :59:10. | :59:17. | |
thing the suffering of the people in Yemen has got worse and it is | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
unimaginable suffering. Another thing has changed, many more members | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
of Parliament are taking a keen interest in this forgotten conflict | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
and members of the public including my constituents are aware of the | :59:28. | :59:33. | |
atrocities taking place. The BBC's report was terrifying in showing | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
what's going on, it's so easy to put parts of the world out of the public | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
eye especially when there's a crisis nearby and Syria. My own interest | :59:42. | :59:49. | |
lies because I've always felt a special affinity for the country and | :59:50. | :59:52. | |
I'd like to return. I know the right on for Leicester East feels the same | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
and they hope will be some of the first MPs to visit in the | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
devastating Civil War. The situation continues to disintegrate and even | :00:03. | :00:08. | |
with the United Nations road map this continues to be an | :00:09. | :00:15. | |
implementation. I continue to be hopeful that by diplomatic means | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
this can be resolved but that depends on the willingness of | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
external powers to make that happen just as it does on the willingness | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
of two sides in Yemen itself. The transfer of power could have been a | :00:26. | :00:32. | |
fresh start and was brokered by Saudi Arabia and the Gulf | :00:33. | :00:40. | |
cooperation Council. Hundreds of thousands of people peacefully | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
demonstrated for democracy by the internal situation deteriorated led | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
by the former president and the Houthi sore Yemen is in a desperate | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
state. Having started as an attempt to put the democratically elected | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
government in place it's now become a failed state with many different | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
actors including Iran, Russia, Al-Qaeda, all creating chaos. Even | :01:01. | :01:09. | |
worse humanitarian crisis. I would like the Minister to comment on his | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
beach at the end of this debate to let us know what's going to happen | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
following the inauguration of the United States president who appears | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
to have a shaky grasp of issues the region. Secretary of State John | :01:21. | :01:29. | |
Kerry spent much time working on the road map but I feel the UK | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
Government might have to take the lead if we want to get a quick | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
resolution to this humanitarian crisis, there is a real groundswell | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
of support in this house and beyond for us to do just that. We have a | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
very close relationship with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries as a | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
critical friend that we have already pushed Saudi Arabia to be more | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
transparent and investigate each violation and publish the results. | :01:57. | :02:09. | |
Will she join me in commending the work of those RAF personnel who have | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
been guiding the Saudis in relation to rules of engagement, it's | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
absolutely critical that we are they are changing the nature of the | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
conflict and is because that long-standing commitment that is | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
possible. If we just simply criticise the Saudis, the conflict | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
will get worse. We totally agree, we have a long-standing relationship | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
between Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries. We can work side-by-side | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
to create peace. We will need independent investigation into | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
reports of breaches of international humanitarian law because of the | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
violation by the Houthis but let's concentrate on getting the road map | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
back on track first. Can the Minister confirm there are people on | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
the ground who can verify each violation because I'm concerned | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
there are difficulties of getting international experts in Yemen. We | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
found about the humanitarian crisis and other speeches and I'm grateful | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
to all the charities who work so hard in Yemen and updated regularly. | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
I'm pleased the news channels have started to alert the public on this | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
Civil War. Unfortunately pull in Yemen cannot escape. They are too | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
poor or cannot cross borders because the only borders... Yemen has all | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
been one of the poorest areas in the world. For the conflict 90% of food | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
is imported with the closure of ports and lack of cranes, as when 40 | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
million people are no food insecure and have of them classified as | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
severely food insecure, 7 million people. And sure we've all read | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
about family scavenging on rubbish dumps just to survive. Because of | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
the pressure the government has put on the coalition the blockade of | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
ports has eased but imports are still significantly pre-conflict | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
levels. Restrictions on access and insecurity are not helping and I | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
urge the government to continue the pressure on the coalition and the | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
Houthis two allowed aid to move through the country. Until flights | :04:22. | :04:29. | |
resume into Sana'a and aid is allowed to flow, the humanitarian | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
crisis will continue, and confident Yemen has the capacity to thrive | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
again as it has done so in the short term and it has been peace. And | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
those other major producer foil, responsible for three quarters of | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
government income and there may be possibilities of exploiting other | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
worlds, agriculture depends on fuel to drive irrigation pumps to produce | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
cereal. It is estimated by the famine early warning system that | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
planting a Stableford sucks is down 30%. This is not influenced by | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
climatic conditions since rainfall has been healthy levels, it been at | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
war and its consequences of destroying agriculture. Now the | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
international community will want to help get Yemen back on its feet but | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
that won't happen until we show leadership. I hope the UK Government | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
will take that role immediately as there are too many people that | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
depend on it. It's also in our national interest as Al-Qaeda and is | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
night will use it as a base when they had been evicted from Syria and | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
Iraq. There's no time to waste and I hope the house will continue to push | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
for further action to save what could be a thriving country. Clearly | :05:45. | :05:55. | |
the scale of the humanitarian crisis in Yemen is unimaginable and a | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
number of members have preferred to some of the statistics involved, the | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
only one I would refer to is the fact there are 90 million people. | :06:06. | :06:20. | |
This is a huge crisis and one which the international community is | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
responding to partially responding to. When the minister responds I | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
hope he could update the House on the progress being made on the | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
United Nations appeal which currently in the last to six I have | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
seen is only just under 60% funded. I hope you could update us on that. | :06:43. | :06:52. | |
I want to focus my comments and some members will not think it is the | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
appropriate focus on the Saudi actions and why because clearly the | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
military action that is taken by the Houthis and Saudis is a major | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
driver. There's no that whatsoever that Houthis the are committing | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
serious human rights abuses and the minister was right to point out in a | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
written answer that in relation to the attacks on Saudi Arabia there | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
have been 90 Saudi Arabian deaths. That's cross-border attacks and more | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
than 500 people injured but I think it's right that we should focus our | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
attention on the Saudi actions because they are allies and they are | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
using the weapons we are providing them with. I'm only going to limit | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
my remarks to a few questions which I hope the Minister will receive | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
some answers or some inspiration for to respond to that the end of this | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
debate and that's firstly whether the UK Government now if UK planes | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
were used in the delivery of cluster munitions. This question has been | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
paused before, I don't believe an answer has been given but I will | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
take that to mean that probably they have in specific operations and I | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
hope the Minister can say whether the government with the use of UK | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
supplied aircraft to deliver cluster munitions whether there are any | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
legal obligations under the cluster munitions act that would appertain | :08:36. | :08:45. | |
to those activities. And whether the use of UK aircraft in that way would | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
be covered by the UK cluster munitions probation. A number of | :08:52. | :09:02. | |
members say cluster munitions were only sold to the Saudis up to a | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
certain period but we know that 500 cluster munitions were delivered | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
over a three-year period. What we also know is that they were only | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
safe and suitable for service until 2008 and I wonder if the Minister | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
could say anything when he responds as to what that means. In terms of | :09:23. | :09:30. | |
the increased risk of civilian casualties because if they are only | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
safe and suitable for servers until 2008 that must mean that more recent | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
years would increase the risk of civilian casualties because | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
presumably that means that ordinance would not explode on impact. I | :09:45. | :09:53. | |
hope... ? And try to lean on my previous military experience but as | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
a general rule I wouldn't want to go near anywhere near any munition | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
which has passed its sell by date. I will write him with a more detailed | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
answer but from what I understand is that the munitions were talking | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
about did not fully blow up in the mechanisms they should have done, | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
the fact that the did that meant they failed to actually work, | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
therefore this is advice to any country that has got stocks in their | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
armouries, once the sell by date has gone clearly they should be removed | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
but in this particular case they are not signatures to the cluster | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
munitions convention and from that perspective it's not illegal | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
although we obviously advise against it to use cluster munitions. I | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
understand that and certainly some members on this side would challenge | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
the Minister on whether their use can be in any circumstances deemed | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
legal. It's regrettable that the Minister is arguing in effect that | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
in some circumstances their use can be considered legal because I think | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
most people would consider their use or the impact of there used to be in | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
discriminant in terms of their impact. A further point on cluster | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
munitions... Following his argument in considerable and I'm grateful for | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
him giving away and he knows that I'm going to make a counterpoint. | :11:21. | :11:32. | |
Qatar are involved in this operation into Yemen, we supply coastal | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
defence systems to Qatar, should we suspend coastal defence systems | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
sales to the state of Qatar because they are involved in this particular | :11:43. | :11:43. | |
action? Indeed, I anticipated what his line | :11:44. | :11:52. | |
of enquiry might be. The focus of what I am saying today is on what | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
the Saudis are doing. And the use of cluster munitions and whether there | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
is sufficient evidence, for instant, to call for a suspension of their | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
arms sales. I believe there is sufficient evidence to call for, to | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
support the point that was made about the need for an independent | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
enquiry. I think that there is. The point I wanted to make in relation | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
to cluster munitions was whether the minister could explain whether he | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
understands the basis on which the Saudi Arabians refused in 2010 to | :12:26. | :12:34. | |
swap their cluster munitions for more precise bombs. Which I | :12:35. | :12:44. | |
understand the MOD offered to do, in terms of a free swap without any | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
cost implications. What was the government's understanding of the | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
reason why at that point the Saudis refused to take up that offer. The | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
final point I want to make is in relation to the joint incident | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
assessment team, which as I made clear in early intervention, the | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
government have had involvement with in terms of providing advice about | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
how to investigate IHL matters. The Minister may be aware that one of | :13:14. | :13:31. | |
the people on JIAT is Mansour Al-Mansour, who understand played an | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
unfortunate role in Bahrain in terms of a series of trials which some | :13:36. | :13:43. | |
have described as being, to use the exact quote, that during that trial | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
process due process violations occurred at the pre-trial and trial | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
levels that denied most defendants elementary fair trial guarantees. | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
With the Minister like to comment on whether he thinks that person and | :13:58. | :14:07. | |
others are suitably qualified to adjudicate on civilian casualties in | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
Yemen. Clearly, the credibility Jiat must depend on the credibility of | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
its individual members. Is the right honourable gentleman aware that | :14:21. | :14:30. | |
Masour Al-Masour is known in Bahrain as the butcher? There are clearly | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
significant concerns about his role and suitability for sitting on Jiat. | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
I would like to conclude by saying that I think there is a huge amount | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
of evidence that suggests the UK should suspend arms sales. And as | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
was the point I'd like to finish on the first point made in this debate, | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
that there is now an overwhelming case for an independent enquiry into | :14:58. | :15:05. | |
Saudi activities in Yemen, and I fail to understand why the | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
government don't show the same enthusiasm for such an independent | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
enquiry as they did in relation to Sri Lanka, where of course our | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
government, rightly in my view, made a strong case for just such an | :15:19. | :15:27. | |
independent enquiry. I would like to start by thanking colleagues for | :15:28. | :15:29. | |
bringing forward this debate today. The member for Liverpool, West Derby | :15:30. | :15:36. | |
and the member for Warwick and Leamington. Although I don't | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
entirely agree with their views on this matter, and I think they will | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
recognise that, I do think it is an opportunity to debate and bring back | :15:46. | :15:53. | |
into the public domain the issue of Yemen. I was also very, very | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
interested to hear the very thoughtful contributions by the | :15:58. | :16:05. | |
member for Bridgend and North East Bedfordshire. Sadly neither are in | :16:06. | :16:07. | |
their places at the moment but I thought they both brought forward | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
very, very thoughtful, contributions to today's debate. I really wanted | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
to focus on the humanitarian aid side of the situation in Yemen. | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
Given that I serve on the International Development Select | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
Committee. This comes in a week when I have heard the term humanitarian | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
crisis used. For me, what is happening in Yemen is a humanitarian | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
crisis. Not some of the issues we've heard raised in this chamber today. | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
In Yemen, it is two years since hostilities began to escalate. The | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
suffering of children and their families continues. Today over 18 | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
million are estimated to be in need of humanitarian assistance, and many | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
of these, very sadly, our children. Some have described as as a | :17:03. | :17:09. | |
children's emergency. The United Nations has estimated more than 4000 | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
civilians have been killed. More than 7000 have been injured. It's | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
been estimated that over 3 million Yemenis are internally displaced. | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
They and many, many more suffer from food insecurity. Close to half of | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
Yemen's health facilities are either closed or only able to function | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
partially. I'm nearly 2000 schools remained closed, due to damage and | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
destruction. As a member of the International Development Committee | :17:41. | :17:42. | |
we often talk about the need for education for children, and through | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
the sustainable development goals there is the term leave no one | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
behind. In Syria we have concerns about no lost generation. I fear | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
that in Yemen we may have another lost generation of children, who due | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
to the conflict, their long-term future may suffer through lack of | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
education. Last year on our committee, we heard evidence from a | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
number of NGOs and from members of the Yemeni Dyas Borough. Some of | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
their stories were really, really striking -- diaspora. The stories | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
and evidence about the need for water, the food and for urgent | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
medical supplies, things we take for granted in our ring country. -- our | :18:26. | :18:33. | |
own country. Low levels of imports such as fuel and medicines, simply | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
add to the already existing humanitarian crisis. As do the | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
problems that Yemen's ports as well. Still in many ways, this conflict | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
has been described continuously as the forgotten war. So I believe that | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
debates like today really do help to continue to raise awareness... Of | :18:56. | :19:04. | |
course I will. She has stood up and spoken for young people who are | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
severely affected by this, particularly this forgotten war in | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
Yemen. I hope she's going to talk about the outrageous, disgusting use | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
of child soldiers in Yemen. And the UN report and Unicef have identified | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
two groups, the resistance groups, not the UAE and Saudi armies, the | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
resistance groups, and particularly identified the Houthis. The average | :19:28. | :19:34. | |
age of those child soldiers, the predominant age is 6-8 years. It is | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
absolutely outrageous and I hope she will pass comment on that. I'm | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
grateful for the honourable gentleman's intervention. While that | :19:47. | :19:49. | |
specific point was not in my speech I think he raises a very, very | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
important point. The impact of war and children, not turns in the -- | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
not just in terms of lack of education and impact on their | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
livelihoods, but also those dragged into war, and become a part of it. | :20:06. | :20:13. | |
It's a very powerful point. I would say in the Unicef report that what | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
was provided in the evidence was the Houthis particularly were purchasing | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
young people from foreign countries and bringing them in to Yemen to | :20:24. | :20:32. | |
fight as child soldiers. He makes his point very eloquently and I hope | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
he will be speaking later in the debate, and elaborating more on | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
that. As I said, today's debate, and debates like it, really do help to | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
raise awareness. I believe they've raised awareness in this chamber on | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
a number of occasions throughout the last year to 18 months. Also it has | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
raised the awareness beyond this chamber, to those members of our | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
constituencies, through the media as well. I fear it is so often | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
overshadowed, quite understandably, by other events in the Middle East | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
region. Of course I am referring to Syria. And yet according to save the | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
children, Yemen is the country with the highest number of people who | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
need humanitarian needs and assistance in the world at this | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
moment in time. Conflict drives food emergencies and it's clearly | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
impacting on the broader humanitarian crisis in Yemen. It | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
also makes it extremely difficult for NGOs, aid agencies and Dfid to | :21:37. | :21:45. | |
deliver aid safely. Those they've humanitarian corridors of vital and | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
we must continue to press for those. At this point I think it would be | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
fair for me to recognise the tremendous work and commitment of | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
Dfid staff. The work they do in delivering UK aid to those who need | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
it in Yemen. With over ?100 million in aid, through schemes such as the | :22:04. | :22:11. | |
social fund for development, the Yemen humanitarian resilience | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
programme, the programme to address malnutrition in Yemen, and | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
protection support through the UNHCR. The UK is one of the leading | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
donors to Yemen, in fact it's the fourth largest. Surely, this is a | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
good indication of some of the good work that international development | :22:29. | :22:40. | |
can do for those most in need. We must continue to use our leadership | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
role to influence those other donors are as much as possible, to | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
encourage them to step up to the plate, too. That brings me onto the | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
wider point of a political settlement, and a cessation of | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
hostilities. The UK has strong relationships in the region, and I | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
would urge us to continue to use our influence in the region, to help | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
bring about the lasting peace settlement that I believe we all so | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
desperately are searching for. Particularly the people in Yemen. | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
Today, we've also heard about and debated the security situation, we | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
know that this is a brutal conflict. I do think we should recognise that | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
there are allegations about violations of international | :23:27. | :23:29. | |
humanitarian law, and that is what they are, allegations. They must be | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
investigated, but surely we must not let that overshadowed the real | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
answer to this crisis. That is a ceasefire, peace and long-lasting | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
stability, not just in Yemen but in the region. In doing so, in making | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
sure that we avoid a situation whereby a vacuum is created into | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
which those whom we would not wish to enter could do so. There has been | :23:54. | :24:01. | |
some very powerful contributions today and I welcome the chance to | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
discuss Yemen in further detail. It has been talked about as a forgotten | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
crisis, not in this House and not in Cardiff South. We have a long | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
history of a Yemeni community in Cardiff who have long expressed | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
concerns with me. But also a community that is willing to reach | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
out to Yemen. I was delighted before Christmas to go along and support | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
the DTC campaign raising funds for Yemen, which had already been very | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
publicly supported by Grangetown primary school, the tram shed and | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
the Cardiff Devils ice hockey team. An unusual coalition but had come | :24:39. | :24:41. | |
together to make clear they didn't want to see the full that seems we | :24:42. | :24:47. | |
have seen over Christmas people starving. Those horrific scenes | :24:48. | :24:54. | |
referred to. I agreed by the comments made by many honourable | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
members across the House about a need for an absolute focus on | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
securing a ceasefire and peace settlement. It's only three that | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
that we can truly address the horrors we are seeing there. That | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
situation that Stephen O'Brien described as a humanitarian | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
catastrophe. Oxfam International say that 7 million people do not know | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
where their next meal is coming from. We've all seen those horrible | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
images on our screens. The UN and the WHO estimate 18.8 million Yemeni | :25:23. | :25:32. | |
sisters -- Yemeni citizens are in dire need and protection. Health | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
facilities reported there have been almost 44,000 casualties, an average | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
of 75 people killed or injured every day. 3.15 million internally | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
displaced people. The import restrictions on imports. The crisis | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
in access to food that has been caused by food shortages. And Oxfam | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
report that almost half a million infants and young people are in need | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
of immediate treatment for severe, acute malnutrition. The war has led | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
to the collapse of imports of food and Yemen imported 90% of its food | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
supplies prior to the escalation of the conflict. In November 2015, the | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
country imported enough food supplies to meet demand but in | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
October 2016, the imported food cupboard only 40% of the demands. If | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
the plunging trends continue unabated, in four months many of the | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
aid agencies are warning food imports may come to a complete stop. | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
We've also seen the risk of a cholera outbreak because the | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
restrictions on the imports of fuel are having a catastrophic effect on | :26:36. | :26:42. | |
sanitation. We are seeing an extremely worrying rise in | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
gender-based violence, especially sexual violence, domestic violence | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
and early marriage. An increase of 70% more incidents reported to date | :26:51. | :26:51. | |
and Impact on the conflict on children | :26:52. | :27:16. | |
is appalling. 113-year-old, she said I see the damage everywhere and I | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
see how many people are affected by the bombs, I feel scared when I see | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
weapons and when I hear the sound of planes in the sky, when you hear | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
that sound it means a big explosion will follow and people will be | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
killed. Hospitals and schools are damage to, life is very difficult in | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
Yemen right now and that's a very powerful testament from one of the | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
people living through the conflict and the UN tells us 3000 children | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
have been killed just since March 2015 and I want to pay tribute to | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
the team working in Yemen. Our committee at the court found that | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
they have been instrumental in supporting and facilitating the | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
humanitarian relief effort through its timely and flexible response and | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
it commended the department, it's doubled its humanitarian commitment | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
and makes the UK the fourth-largest owner last year and it's why we have | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
two adhere to our aid commitments, not only morally right but in our | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
national interest and global interest. However, I believe and I | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
have believed for a long time that this excellent work going on risks | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
being undermined by the continued arms sales to Saudi Arabia which are | :28:29. | :28:37. | |
being used in Yemen. I accept the very serious concerns that have been | :28:38. | :28:44. | |
raised about the wider nature of the content, I don't have an agenda | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
against our defence industry are Saudi Arabia but the reality is the | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
UN estimates over 60% of civilian casualties were the responsibility | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
of attacks by the Saudi led coalition and we might as well look | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
at the current evidence, we've heard in the last few days about a Saudi | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
led coalition air strikes which was reported to have killed five people | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
including two children near a primary school in the north of Yemen | :29:10. | :29:16. | |
and that's just in recent days. We've heard absolutely about the | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
atrocities committed by the Houthis and I want to be clear, I recognise | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
those and condemn them, we had about the issue of child soldiers, | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
disgusting stories, blockading humanitarian access, using landmines | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
and indiscriminate weapons against civilians just as cluster munitions | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
are in the appalling attacks on the borders which have been killing | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
civilians. We're not selling arms to the Houthis, we're selling arms to | :29:43. | :29:49. | |
the Saudi led coalition and human rights watch report that 61 | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
allegedly unlawful coalition actions and air strikes resulting in the | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
death of 900 civilians, attacks on markets, schools and hospitals and | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
one of the Honourable members asked early on who is dropping these | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
bombs. Human rights watch suggests US supplied munitions were used in | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
23 of those locations and UK made weapons in two including one produce | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
as recently as 2015 have been fined and those locations. Let's be | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
absolutely clear, the UK is a signatory to the arms trade Treaty, | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
we led the fight for this internationally and I'm proud there | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
was cross-party support for it but successive governments have driven | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
us forward and we signed up to the EU consolidating criteria and we | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
have our own regulations on that and they are very clear. The call | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
opinions say that the UK is potentially now in breach of the | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
arms trade treaty Article 6.3 because they ought to have had the | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
necessary knowledge that serious violations of international law were | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
taking place and on the basis of a breach of article seven then there | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
is a clear risk that future weapon is could be used to facilitate | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
serious breaches of international law and that in such an ongoing | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
crisis now feasible mitigation measures were deemed possible. It's | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
a very clear position, we are signed up to these restrictions and we've | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
had a series of obfuscations, a series of confusion is not only from | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
the Saudis themselves but also from the UK Government changing their | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
position on abrupt end as to whether they conducted assessments are not | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
the nature of the assessments and when they were conducted and | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
admittance is from the ministers and others we have seen little progress | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
or slow progress in this and it's simply not acceptable. The Saudi | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
Arabian Foreign Minister Kim twice a the honourable member, the former | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
Foreign Minister pointed out and that was a great opportunity to | :31:47. | :31:49. | |
question them and he gave his assurances there would be responses | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
and we've not seen it, 180 documented incidents and some of | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
these will prove to be not true but that's absolutely quiet we need a | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
thorough investigation into what has been going on and the progress to | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
date weather from the Saudi government or indeed from the UK | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
Government who I believe does know what's going on in this situation | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
and has conducted assessments and has got information in their | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
possession that would indicate whether or not atrocities against | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
civilians have been committed, we need absolutely some independent | :32:23. | :32:25. | |
verification of what has going on and until we get that I completely | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
support because that there has been for a temporary suspension of arms | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
sales because of those principles that are laid out in the arms trade | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
treaty. I very much hope Madam Deputy Speaker when the minister | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
gets up he will provide some clear assurances as to what assessments | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
are going on and what investigations are going on on whether he is | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
convinced the UK is adhering to its legal obligations. We know there are | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
legal proceedings ongoing and it's absolutely crucial the UK Government | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
is clear before those proceedings, what it knew when it knew it because | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
we have to have assurances that we're adhering to our international | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
obligations but finally I would say that the solution to this crisis is | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
only going to come through a negotiated solution. All of our | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
efforts must be focused on that. There's a great degree of unity | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
around that in the House and the need for humanitarian and | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
responsibility and the need for an independent investigation. We have a | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
part to play in this, we are selling arms to one of the parties and until | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
we see that stopped I will remain unsatisfied. We've heard from many | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
members this afternoon the reference to the phrase the forgotten war but | :33:37. | :33:43. | |
as my honourable friend made clear this house has been doing everything | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
it can to ensure that war is not forgotten and although he's not in | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
his place I want to pay tribute to the right Honourable member for | :33:52. | :33:53. | |
Leicester East for all he's done over many years to highlight the | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
plight of the people in Yemen. It's a country in a region I know well | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
having couple run the region and also to Yemen and around Yemen and | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
it's therefore with a particular sadness that I regard the situation | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
in that country as my honourable friend set out in her speech, I | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
could make the same remarks to those I meet a year ago in the same debate | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
in which she spoke. The honourable member for Liverpool West Derby set | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
out as always with brilliance and inside the background to this | :34:32. | :34:38. | |
situation and particularly I would draw attention to the fact he did so | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
in a very measured and balanced tone and that is absolutely crucial to | :34:44. | :34:50. | |
this debate. The prewar situation in Yemen was always complex. The | :34:51. | :35:00. | |
president described governing Yemen as dancing on the Head of State | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
snakes, so complex is the make-up of that country. -- on the head office | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
makes. The most populous country in the Middle East yet it has the | :35:12. | :35:19. | |
lowest annual income per head. It has significant economic challenges | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
and a young male population seem very limited opportunities, even | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
before the war for it to prosper. It's also a country which is heavily | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
reliant on foreign imports and which is heavily armed even before the | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
war. All of this created a challenge for that country before the conflict | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
broke out and it is even more challenging now and we see it | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
sitting in a geopolitical context in that region surrounded by a complex | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
power network of different states and alliances which make it all the | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
more important we focus on it. Possibly uniquely in this as I do | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
not intend to repeat even though they are important points that have | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
already been made at length by other honourable and Right Honourable | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
members and B made very well. I would briefly touch on two things. | :36:12. | :36:19. | |
One is the background and Saudi Arabia's involvement and then I will | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
talk perhaps a little about the future. It is absolutely right as I | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
think all Honourable members who have spoken that we remember there | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
is fault on both sides and that simply attempting to apportion blame | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
to one side or another does not advance the cause of peace and I | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
would condemn as every other member would any deaths of innocent | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
civilians and it's right that when the car they are properly | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
investigated. As has been alluded to and I can set it out no more | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
effectively, eloquently or erudite link on my right honourable friend | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
the member for North East Bedfordshire the background. This | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
came about from the attempt to take over the country by the Houthis and | :37:05. | :37:14. | |
the march on Sana'a and the request from the government to get aid and | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
the response from the coalition and we must render that just as there | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
are consequences of action which what we are focusing on today there | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
would have been significant consequences of inaction on that | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
occasion had the Houthis been allowed to take over the country, | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
significantly worse conditions for the people of Yemen but also greater | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
regional instability and I risk to add national interest. We should | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
also not forget that Saudi Arabia is regularly attacked in the context of | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
this conflict across its border and has the right to defend itself and | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
its right the coalition acted and stepped in and acted in defence of a | :37:55. | :37:57. | |
legitimate government and regional stability. It's right the coalition | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
acted and stepped in and acted in defence of a legitimate government | :38:01. | :38:02. | |
and regional stability. Its right to remember that Saudi Arabia plays in | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
that region and to our national interest in the partnership we have | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
with them in intelligence matters and in taking on terrorism. That | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
engagement and that relationship is vital to our national interest. It's | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
not an uncritical relationship, as all our relationships with our | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
friends are. We will be critical in a measured way is appropriate but | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
not participating in a constructive way that would be significantly | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
detrimental to our national interest, to the people of Yemen and | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
to regional stability. I would conclude by focusing on the three | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
key elements as we look towards the future. A ceasefire to allow aid to | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
get in the country and talks to take place is absolutely vital and I | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
don't think any member of this house would disagree with that and I would | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
particularly pay tribute both to the right Honourable member for Rutland | :38:58. | :38:59. | |
and Melton for the work you did in his previous role in pressing the | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
case for a ceasefire and to the Minister for his tireless work. The | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
people of Yemen could have no better friend in this country than the | :39:10. | :39:15. | |
Minister for the Middle East to try and bring peace to the region. The | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
second element once we have the ceasefire must be to deliver a | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
long-term political settlement that will hold. The reality is that | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
settlement must emerge from within Yemen itself and the people of Yemen | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
and not be imposed from outside although of course countries and | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
friends of ours such as Oman have a significant role to play I believe | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
in facilitating such a long-term peace settlement and it must ensure | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
that all tribes and all groups within Yemen are represented and | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
that none are excluded. And finally it is important that we focus once | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
we have that settlement in place on the rebuilding of Yemen and giving | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
hope to the people of that country. That will involve investment in that | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
country from outside, it will involve security, it will I believe | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
have two involve a clear focus on fuel because so much of what goes on | :40:11. | :40:21. | |
in Yemen is reliant on diesel fuel. Is this also not a prime example of | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
where UN resolution 30.25 comes into play which involves the engagement | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
of women in rebuilding our society after there has been conflict and in | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
setting out the piste conditions because it is women and children who | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
have been many of the victims in this war, is this not a wonderful | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
example of how women can be involved in rebuilding Yemen? I could not | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
disagree with it honourable lady in many ways she makes a point well, | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
effectively and absolutely right about the role that women can play | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
in rebuilding a country of the conflict but of course everyone in | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
that country needs to play a role in helping to rebuild it. I hope that | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
as we have the biggest today, when we next debate this matter we will | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
have seen significant progress and I know that is what the Minister | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
desires, I know it's what the British Government desires and what | :41:17. | :41:19. | |
the people of Yemen desire and I hope that the 20 17th will bring | :41:20. | :41:28. | |
peace to that trouble country. There's a hidden element through | :41:29. | :41:35. | |
this debate. This house and the UK Government can hope to influence | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
Saudi Arabia in its conduct and the other states of the Gulf Council. We | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
have less hope and opportunity of influencing the Houthis and the | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
various elements active in Yemen also including Iran. No one on this | :41:53. | :42:00. | |
side of the House who wishes to be critical of Saudi Arabia is blind to | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
the crimes committed against humanity and against their own | :42:06. | :42:11. | |
people by the Houthis and other elements of the coalition government | :42:12. | :42:12. | |
there. If we are talking about Saudi, it's | :42:13. | :42:21. | |
not because we are ignoring the other side and its crimes. But if we | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
are to be able to move the debate on, all we can do is to influence | :42:27. | :42:33. | |
Saudi as a major ally of Saudi, as a major weapons supplier and market | :42:34. | :42:35. | |
for Saudi. That's why we are doing it. So I think arguments from some | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
members who have tried to present the discussion in terms of some | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
people are arguing against the Saudis and forgetting about the | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
others, that's not where we are going. We can influence Saudi. The | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
argument is from people on this side of the House that the oven and -- | :42:55. | :43:02. | |
that the government has been negligent in how it has tried to | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
influence Saudi. I'll give you some evidence. December 13, the United | :43:08. | :43:16. | |
States government vetoed the sale of 16,000 guidance systems for | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
munitions that were going to be sold by US companies to Saudi Arabia. | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
That tells me a couple of things. Why does Saudi need 16,000 guidance | :43:26. | :43:33. | |
systems for bombs? It is something to do with the disproportionality of | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
the air offensive they had been conducting. That is getting in the | :43:41. | :43:48. | |
way of a settlement. What began as a civil war, yes, with some | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
implications around the Saudi border, what began as a Civil War | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
has been turned into a humanitarian disaster by the scale of the action | :43:57. | :44:04. | |
the Saudis have undertaken. The fact they are continuing, after there is | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
very little left a bomb, I think suggests an unwillingness in the | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
Saudi regime to come to some sort of compromise before they have been | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
able to propose the settlement they want. I think it is incumbent on the | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
UK to try and put pressure on the Saudis to reduce the scale of the | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
bombing, to say you have do do something else. If the United States | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
can do it, so can we. The spokesman for the United States when they | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
announced the veto on the weapons sales in December said, we will not | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
give a blank cheque to the Saudi regime. My criticism of the | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
government is precisely that it's trying to give a blank cheque to the | :44:48. | :44:55. | |
Saudi government. Does the honourable gentleman Bacall, and he | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
makes his point well, does he recall in the statement given by the | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
Secretary of State for Defence that he did make clear what the United | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
States government have done was to suspend a particular license, but | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
continued to supply military jets, helicopters and other ammunition to | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
Saudi Arabia. It's not a blanket. I'm aware of that and | :45:17. | :45:24. | |
simultaneously, with banning the guidance systems, the US agreed a | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
major contract to supply battle tanks to Saudi Arabia. That just | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
makes my point, that the whales to macro way you deal, if you presume | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
Saudi Arabia is an ally, the way you deal with them is not to give them a | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
blank cheque, but to say it's carrot and stick. The British government | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
hasn't done that. The present government spent a long time arguing | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
that British cluster weapons hadn't been used. Once that was | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
definitively proved, it's moved back to saying Saudis to conduct its own | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
enquiries. We have been training the Saudi air force, we helped set up | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
the command and control system for the Saudi air force for the last 40 | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
years. If they aren't getting it right now, it's for political | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
reasons. Not because of any defections within the system. So | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
waiting on the Saudis to investigate is actually... We have to put | :46:23. | :46:29. | |
political pressure on the Saudis to come to the table, to reduce the | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
scale of their bombing, to move towards some kind of ceasefire, and | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
to do it properly. If we don't do that, we let them off the hook. As | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
long as the British government is being so soft on the Saudis in this | :46:41. | :46:48. | |
context, then we will never get through the international enquiry. | :46:49. | :46:58. | |
The member for Liverpool West Derby crystallised this debate at the | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
beginning by saying, at what point does the British government move on | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
from demanding the Saudis investigate the failures in the war | :47:08. | :47:15. | |
to actually having an independent enquiry. That is the simplest thing. | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
Even more modest a request of Her Majesty 's government bans are | :47:23. | :47:30. | |
spending on cells temporarily. Final point. As long as the British | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
government continues to underwrite this excessive Saudi bombing | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
offensive, then more and more becomes likely that British | :47:40. | :47:46. | |
personnel, British individuals... Does he not agree that the Saudis | :47:47. | :47:53. | |
are able to purchase arms from abroad, from whoever, by selling | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
petrol to nations like the United Kingdom. Perhaps he's been to a | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
local petrol station near here and filled his car up with Saudi Arabian | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
petrol. Did he ask at the petrol station, was it ethical petrol and | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
was it funding arms purchase by Saudi Arabia? Fortunately in reply I | :48:12. | :48:18. | |
can say I don't possess and have never possessed a driving licence. | :48:19. | :48:27. | |
LAUGHTER That was rather flippant in the context. I am not trying to | :48:28. | :48:36. | |
identify Saudi as the only culprit in this difficult situation. I'm | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
saying the only people we can influence is the Saudi regime. | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
That's why I'm making the point I am and why I think the motion, the | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
specific dynamics of the motion, is to get the British government to | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
underwrite and support such an independent enquiry. My final point | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
is on the culpability of British service personnel. But the 2010 | :48:59. | :49:07. | |
cluster munitions act, and other like... Makes it clear it's an | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
offence to assist in naval or induce other persons to make use of cluster | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
bombs. That's quite a wide definition. As long as the British | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
government goes on underwriting the Saudi air offensive, the more it | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
becomes a possibility that British personnel could fall under that | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
heading. The honourable gentleman is making some important points but | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
does he not agree with me it's not just with regard to cluster | :49:39. | :49:41. | |
munitions but the wider sales and compliance with the arms trade | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
Treaty. When you look at the Freedom of information request, officials in | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
the Foreign Office were clearly exercised due to the high-profile | :49:51. | :49:52. | |
nature of the subject and the attention it's getting from | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
Parliament, the media and the courts, it is advised we have the | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
correct answers. They are clearly worried about their legal position. | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
If that is why we are seeing such obfuscation from them? I think in | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
his own contribution he made the wider legal case very well. My worry | :50:09. | :50:17. | |
is for British personnel, if a legal case begins. The minister alluded to | :50:18. | :50:25. | |
section nine of the act which gives a defence for British personnel | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
involved in an international conflict with allies, who might not | :50:29. | :50:36. | |
be party to the UN cluster convention. The problem is it is a | :50:37. | :50:44. | |
theoretical defence. I don't think that section nine actually could be | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
interpreted beyond the point where you knew that a member of a | :50:48. | :50:55. | |
noncompliant state was using British cluster weapons deliberately, and | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
for a long time, and causing great civilian casualties. I think that | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
becomes a more Opec position in the law -- O -- opaque position. Madam | :51:06. | :51:22. | |
Deputy Speaker, thank you. I thank the honourable members for securing | :51:23. | :51:31. | |
today's important debate through the Backbench Business Committee. The | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
humanitarian crisis in Yemen is continuing to worsen despite all of | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
the Parliamentary time we've spent over the past months discussing it. | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
The situation is continually deteriorating, despite all of the | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
reassurances from a government that millions of pounds are being spent | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
on aid. The suffering of the many people seems to have no end in sight | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
in the near future. Meanwhile, according to figures from Oxfam, | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
some 14 million people are food insecure, with around 7.5 million on | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
the brink of famine. Unless something radically changes this | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
situation is only set to worsen in 2017. Yemen is a country which was | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
heavily dependent on food imports prior to the conflict, and the war | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
has had a truly devastating effect on food security. What is making its | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
way into the country simply isn't enough to meet daily demand. The | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
decimated infrastructure of the country is making it impossible to | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
get food to all who need it. It is unjust roads which are being | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
destroyed, ports have been targeted by the Saudi led coalition. Their | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
strikes on ports have led to only one of the six loading cranes still | :52:45. | :52:50. | |
remaining functional. Prior to this, aid groups complained the coalition | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
naval blockade stopped relief supplies entering Yemen. There is | :52:55. | :52:59. | |
further evidence to suggest aid agencies are not being given proper | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
opportunity to deliver this aid. About a year ago Oxfam and other | :53:06. | :53:10. | |
NGOs were sent a diplomatic note stating if they were delivering aid | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
anywhere close to where Houthis were operating, they were doing so at | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
their own risk. In effect the Saudis were saying they wouldn't take | :53:20. | :53:22. | |
responsibility for bombing aid workers if they were near Houthis. | :53:23. | :53:29. | |
This is surely a breach of international humanitarian law and | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
has when civilians are unable to receive aid. Hunger should not be | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
used as a weapon of war, the famine early warning Systems network warned | :53:38. | :53:44. | |
that to mitigate severe ongoing food insecurity and prevent famine in | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
Yemen this year, the international community and local actors must | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
protect the ability of private traders to import staple food. That | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
more resources are needed to support the continuation and expansion of | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
humanitarian response, and that traders and humanitarian actors have | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
access to conflict zones. The UK needs to play its part and heed | :54:07. | :54:13. | |
these recommendations. The Saudis are a key ally of the UK and we | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
should be working to ensure they are acting responsibly in the conflict. | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
Such responsibility includes military operations, and action | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
should be proportionate to military threat. Yet we continue to hear | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
reports that would suggest this isn't the case. Serious questions | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
need to be asked of the Saudis about they're targeting. There are | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
certainly too many documented cases of indiscriminate bombings which | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
have led to thousands of needless civilian deaths. And injuries. | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
Including many children. This conflict is certainly not one-sided | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
but the fact remains that we are a key ally of the Saudis and have | :54:55. | :55:00. | |
licensed ?3.3 billion worth of armed fails since they intervened in | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
Yemen. We cannot shirk responsibility, that is particularly | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
the case for UK supplied weapons where they are being used in the | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
conflict. Too many questions remain properly answered about the use of | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
cluster munitions. I have perceived the government on this issue since | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
last June and I'm sick of its cluster bluster. Members of this | :55:24. | :55:30. | |
House deserve nothing less than full transparency. In June last year I | :55:31. | :55:33. | |
asked the MoD by way of written question, when the UK last | :55:34. | :55:39. | |
maintained cluster munitions held by Saudi Arabia. The Secretary of State | :55:40. | :55:42. | |
delivered a sink synced and blunt response but the UK has never | :55:43. | :55:48. | |
maintained cluster munitions held by Saudi Arabia -- succinct and blunt | :55:49. | :55:55. | |
response. A Freedom of information request was submitted by Amnesty | :55:56. | :55:58. | |
international to the MoD. Contained within is confirmation that up until | :55:59. | :56:04. | |
2008 there was contracted manpower support in place for the | :56:05. | :56:07. | |
maintenance, handling and storage of cluster bombs. I will be seeking | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
urgent clarification from the MoD on this and seriously hope I have not | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
been misled by the Department. Furthermore, it is revealed in the | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
Freedom of information response that the MoD offered to replace all of | :56:21. | :56:30. | |
the Saudi stocks of cluster bombs with guided bombs as recently as | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
2010. The Saudis continually refused his offer. The MoD must provide | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
answers to the House urgently as to why this offer was allowed to be | :56:40. | :56:41. | |
declined without repercussion. What her subsequent arms export | :56:42. | :56:48. | |
licences being issued with a question when the Saudis have sole | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
we also need concrete answers from them on how many of the bombs have | :56:56. | :57:04. | |
been dropped in Yemen and absolute transparency on the targeting data | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
of such air strikes. Furthermore, will be UK Government take sole | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
responsibility for ensuring that any and all UK produced cluster | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
munitions dropped in Yemen are cleared working alongside the mining | :57:19. | :57:26. | |
institutions including the Yemen executive mine action centre and NPC | :57:27. | :57:29. | |
the direct funding they received from the UK. In short, what I'm | :57:30. | :57:36. | |
asking of the government is for an undertaking to clean up its own mess | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
and to show an appropriate level of responsibility. Our foreign policy | :57:43. | :57:44. | |
needs to put the innocent civilians of Yemen first and foremost no more | :57:45. | :57:51. | |
than ever. Our efforts can help avert a full-scale famine but the | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
time to act is no one to help to secure a ceasefire. At first like to | :57:57. | :58:04. | |
thank the member for West Derby for bringing this and the member for | :58:05. | :58:11. | |
Warrican Leamington spa and my honourable friend from Leicester | :58:12. | :58:18. | |
West said the contribution of the member for North East Bedfordshire | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
which was each and every minute whilst a valuable contribution to | :58:24. | :58:29. | |
this debate. The primary purpose of this debate is to end the killing, | :58:30. | :58:39. | |
to end the suffering, to get a ceasefire to stop the humanitarian | :58:40. | :58:45. | |
crisis is just not the primary purpose, is pretty much the sole | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
purpose what we're here to do there are some other ancillary issues but | :58:49. | :58:56. | |
that is what we're to do this as a humanitarian crisis, a forgotten war | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
that is underreported, and are considered and I welcome this debate | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
because I think that we must elevate this debate not only for the people | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
who live in Yemen but the people in the region who are going to suffer | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
and perhaps the people of western Europe with reference to some of the | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
extreme Islamist elements within Yemen. This is a history of a | :59:21. | :59:30. | |
country that's had problems, a despotic leader to members of the | :59:31. | :59:33. | |
labour club to Accrington, the problem is you got a despotic leader | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
in Sana'a who was returned, once fought by the Houthis and now he's | :59:39. | :59:47. | |
involved in a war after joining them. He very simple view but the | :59:48. | :59:54. | |
view the United nations takes on the 2216. There has been a coup by some | :59:55. | :00:05. | |
very terrible people, Houthis and other and the resistance have got | :00:06. | :00:08. | |
involved as well on the other side in committing some atrocious acts in | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
what has been a vacuum created by the former president who is now | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
causing trouble again where we are with this series of this issue is is | :00:19. | :00:25. | |
that if we don't stop and prevent this conflict in 2017, if we don't | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
resolve the situation and will bring a ceasefire, we risk ending up in a | :00:30. | :00:36. | |
situation where it is intractable, where it is not in the interests of | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
Iran or Saudi Arabia to have a peaceful settlement because they | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
will continue that Middle East proxy war, we have not to allow this | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
conflict to get to that stage and that is one of the reasons why the | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
UN 2216 talks about an arms embargo and the blockade and trying to stop | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
some of the assets being transferred in which are bringing illegal | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
weapons, guns and munitions into Yemen and exaggerating the | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
situation. As I pointed out earlier, let's just look at the scale of | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
this. 6-8 -year-olds reported by the United Nations carry Kalashnikovs | :01:17. | :01:23. | |
and are being killed. This is the war that we face and on one side. I | :01:24. | :01:32. | |
fully take what he sing about the use of child soldiers by Houthis the | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
by does he not remember that the United Nations found that Saudi | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
Arabia was culpable of being the biggest killer of children in the | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
war in Yemen through its bombing and the Saudi resume forced the United | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
Nations to take Saudi off its list of states that were the worst for | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
dealing badly with children. A very valid point, the United Nations has | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
had trouble and there is nobody in this chamber who thinks that either | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
side are right in this. Both sides are killing people and that's what | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
needs to end and what we have to focus on, not blaming individual | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
nations. Now, let me just put the record straight, I come to this | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
debate frustrated. 2016 was the year of post-truth, false fact, fake | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
news. It was a terrible year for Britain and for the world in which | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
moderate people and democracy lost arguments to extremists, right part | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
on one side, the Canary on the other, the Albright, or the hard | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
left on the Labour Party and Yemen is being used as the next vehicle to | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
advocate some lunacy rather than the principal position of how can we | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
help these people. And it's about time that moderate Britain fought | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
back against some of these extremists who pursue these views. | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
And it's important, we must not allow this to become an Iran versus | :03:10. | :03:17. | |
Saudi conflict because it will become intractable. However, I do | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
accept as well if you read all the reports there is a massive | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
complication on the ground, it's not simply Iran versus Saudi, we haven't | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
arrived at that position yet but it's one that we ought to be | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
exceedingly mindful of. We have President Salah, the guy that robbed | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
Yemen basically, this is the guy that when he was president he was... | :03:39. | :03:46. | |
And arms dealer, he was buying bullets at 50 cents as an arms | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
dealer and selling them to himself as president at a dollar a time. | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
Buying Kalashnikovs and guns at $150 as an arms dealer, selling them to | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
himself as the president at $600. The UN report describes this man as | :04:05. | :04:11. | |
creaming off the whole of the year many -- Yemeni state. And one Depor | :04:12. | :04:18. | |
there were 1500 troops, he had an invoice for 80,000 troops. There are | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
nine teachers for every child in Yemen if you believe residents Salah | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
and of course he wants to get back his position and he wants to bring | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
in all the money and assets that the United Nations are trying to freeze | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
to fund this war in which ordinary people are being mercilessly killed. | :04:38. | :04:39. | |
Let's just faced some truths about this. The biggest donors to Yemen | :04:40. | :04:46. | |
over the years that have prevented the humanitarian crisis being what | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
it is today has been the GCC, has been Saudi Arabia and because of the | :04:52. | :04:58. | |
Houthis aid tap has been turned off but worse than that because the | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
Houthis want to find Saudi Arabia on the border we got a situation where | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
Saudi Arabia can no longer have foreign workers from Yemen working | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
in Saudi Arabia. It's logical so all the remittances have dried up, no | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
wonder the country is in poverty and we're allowing these people to get | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
away with it so it is obvious why UN resolution | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
2216 PINS at all on the Houthis, the people who started this in line with | :05:27. | :05:36. | |
the person they were fighting, president. We have got to try and | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
deal with it but it is about building bridges and what's in the | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
UN report is the GCC have tried at Geneva twice at the Muscat | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
principles to bring both parties together for a peaceful settlement | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
and who is the party that is resisting the peace talks? The | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
Houthis will not allow a peace delegation to fly to Geneva, will | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
not allow the UN express to see the situation on the ground. This is a | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
group of people who in my mind and I say this to people and Accrington, | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
they're just try to rob the state, not interested in a peaceful | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
settlement and it makes it difficult but we should never abandon the | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
principle of trying to build bridges that also applies to not trying to | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
upset on to stabilise the Gulf cooperation Council or the Arab | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
league. I very much enjoyed listening to his remarks. One of the | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
thing that shows their intent is the coup disrupted the constitutional | :06:44. | :06:45. | |
process that was in place in Yemen to try to bring a lasting and stable | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
government. But I wish this debate was for two hours and I can speak | :06:50. | :06:58. | |
for two hours. The Onomah member for West Derby is right. I could go for | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
three hours. The proposal from a constitutional settlement was for a | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
six estate federated Yemen and who walked away from that? The president | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
walked away from the talks in Geneva because he didn't want a federated | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
because he wanted to do what he was doing before, milk the state for | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
himself. This is the problem and all the meantime people are suffering. | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
Now the Saudis are trying to get a den, we've donated ?100 million, I'm | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
pleased we've done that, that's a fraction to what Saudi Arabia done | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
it and yet were trying to castigate them and that's just Saudi Arabia so | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
let's just talk about the conflict. This has been presented against | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
Saudi Arabia against the people of Yemen. What an absolute load of | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
garbage. They are operating under a UN mandate, the Gulf cooperation | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
Council, five members, four members of the Arab League are operating | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
under that mandate of which Saudi are one component. They are the | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
biggest component, I'm not denying that, they are also guilty it | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
appears of doing some awful things and they should be held to account, | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
nobody is saying that anybody should be exempt from the law, nobody | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
saying that but we must never take our eye off the ball that people are | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
suffering in Yemen and how did we get to the end result of relieving | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
that suffering? That is the primary purpose and I'm never going to slip | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
from that, not going to be taken on some hard left loony left or right | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
wing bandwagon about arms sales to Saudi Arabia if that impacts | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
negatively on the people in the region. I stand unequivocal. I'm | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
there to help the people of Yemen and I want to see the best outcome | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
for them. I thank him for giving way. Is he aware however that after | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
the strike on the funeral in which 140 people died, even the UK | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
Government was quoted as saying it was going to review its policy | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
towards arms exports to Saudi Arabia and I wonder if he has had any | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
feedback on what that review has stated? There is an issue and a | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
concern and it is a well-meaning and it is a genuine concern that the | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
speed and efficacy of Saudi's investigations into some of the | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
things that they've done is not up to the required standard. However, | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
they have as has been explained by many honourable members attempted at | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
least to come to this place, to speak with foreign powers, to allow | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
coalition partners who buy military equipment as well as British to be | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
involved in looking and training at what is going on, have tried to be, | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
to a degree, we will know what that degree as, transparent. One of the | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
issues that hasn't been addressed here is if you take Saudi Arabia out | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
of this, if you isolate that coalition, is there a risk that Isis | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
will fill that gap and flourish in Yemen and make the conflict even | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
worse? She's taken the words right out of my mouth and congratulate her | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
for raising the point that's not been raised enough. If you read the | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
UN report and all of the reports, this is the situation on the ground, | :10:25. | :10:33. | |
you have the Houthis marching south, next to no government forces, | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
marching through and they are marching into Sunni areas and we are | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
seeing a repeat of Mosul, history repeat itself in Iraq, Shias | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
marching into Sunni areas and the consequences of that like Mosul this | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
to consolidate the black flag over these places and so when I see | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
130,000 Saudi troops marching to the south, when I see the UAE send | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
synth, I at least, if I lived there I would prefer that but I'm at least | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
satisfied that some degree of military civil forces moving into | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
place to try and secure rather than allow which is what's happening | :11:15. | :11:23. | |
communities to be fearful, to have extremists who then turned to their | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
towns and communities and say the only way that we can defend | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
ourselves from those Houthis is to raise the black flag. | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
It will be terrible because we will not be to remove lifeless from years | :11:36. | :11:43. | |
to come, we are storing up a major problem. -- Isis. When I see the | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
troops moving to South Yemen I think it has to be welcomed because let's | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
not forget, it is not the Houthies who are using child soldiers but the | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
resistance using child soldiers as well. Both sides are using child | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
soldiers and what we need is a restoration of civil governance. We | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
cannot support the coup against the legitimate government even if that | :12:10. | :12:11. | |
government wasn't popular or efficient. We cannot allow that. I | :12:12. | :12:18. | |
want to discuss arms because some issues on this have not been | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
discussed. Who are supplying arms to Yemen? If you read the US register | :12:22. | :12:29. | |
of interest I will give you the list, Russia, Bulgaria, Moldova, | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
France, USA, Ukraine, Belarus, China, tanks, attack aircraft, Mick | :12:37. | :12:43. | |
jets, rocket launchers, all of these have been provided into the nation | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
of Yemen. I will tell you one country that hasn't supplied arms to | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
Yemen, the United Kingdom. They have not supplied, we have not supplied | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
arms to Yemen but all these other countries have. I think that ought | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
to be noted, we have a robust and good system of arms control and arms | :13:04. | :13:12. | |
export control. I do apologise Deputy Speaker. I will lend their | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
that 2017 will be a year in which we will seek a ceasefire and anybody | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
who wants a job on the passing bandwagon of using Yemen as stopping | :13:24. | :13:31. | |
arms sale to Saudi Arabia I will stand up and oppose them. Thank you | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. As you've heard the conflict in Yemen has been | :13:39. | :13:46. | |
labelled and I want to contribute to the comment earlier that is not in | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
this house and also for that reason I would like to congratulate and | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
paid tribute to both members of Liverpool and West Derby and | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
Leamington for the excellent contributions to this debate which I | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
have enjoyed. And also ensuring instead that this parliament and | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
although set have a chance to keep this issue at the forefront of | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
public debate and to remember those killed and injured as a result of | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
this ongoing violence. To remember those who are starving or stricken | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
with illness as a result of breakdown of civil society and to | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
remember that the UK has a central role to play in the Middle East and | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
indeed the role it has played in the conflict. It is our moral and civic | :14:28. | :14:34. | |
duty and also in our best pragmatic strategic self-interest to do all we | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
can to help end the conflict and bring peace to Yemen. I think we | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
have consensus that this is indeed what everybody wants to happen. | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
First and foremost because the suffering has reached a horrifying | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
tipping point, I was grateful this week to have the opportunity of | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
hosting a presentation by a range of aid organisation setting up the | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
scale and scope of the suffering we are now seeing. We were warned by | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
Oxfam, the Yemen safe passage grave and others that the danger of famine | :15:09. | :15:17. | |
in the country are very real. She mentions Oxfam and I have been | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
contacted by number of constituents supporting the Red Line for Yemen | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
campaign, will she join me in welcoming back campaign and support | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
for the Government to uphold the spirit of the arms trade and end any | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
illegal arms trade which will call suffering in Yemen? I'm grateful to | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
my friend in raising that campaign and I hope many more people will | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
sign up to it. Even before this conflict Yemen was relying on | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
external imports of around 95% of its food. By October 2016, the | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
combined efforts of a blockade of ports by coalition forces and damage | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
to roads meant that imported food only covered 40% of demand. I would | :16:04. | :16:12. | |
ordinarily give way that the honourable gentleman has had 15 | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
minutes to make his speech and I want to make sure the Minister can | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
answer the questions posed to him, please forgive me. Oxfam have stated | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
if this continues unabated then informants food imports will come to | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
a complete halt. And to add to this spiralling economic problems which | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
face the country, the central bank has stopped salary payments as well | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
as pension payments to the elderly and welfare payments to the | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
vulnerable, the human tragedy on an epic scale is upon us. The estimate | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
of these experts is that by April or May this year there is a high | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
likelihood of what they call a cataclysmic famine which would | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
condemn millions madam Deputy Speaker to suffering and death. It | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
is important that we bear in mind that these victims are not a | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
by-product of the conflict, they are the target of military action with a | :17:06. | :17:13. | |
lack of food being used as a weapon of war. We have a moral | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
responsibility to our fellow human beings to address this crisis. I | :17:18. | :17:25. | |
welcome the work being carried out by aid organisations in Yemen to | :17:26. | :17:27. | |
make sure aid is delivered to those who need it now and I recognise that | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
the UK Government has contributed over ?100 million worth of aid to | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
the country for the Scottish Government has made donations to the | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
ongoing disaster emergency committee appeal. Our charity alone will not | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
avert this. What the people of Yemen need now as much as they need food | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
is international leadership. I want to welcome the efforts of the US | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
Secretary of State who try to broker a ceasefire still at the end of last | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
year but what we do know is that the incoming trump administration is | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
unlikely to take the same view in the region. I fear that the policies | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
of the new White House administration will instigate a | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
worrying degree of instability in the Middle East, a point also made | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
by the Member of points maths south. . Because of the vacuum that has | :18:16. | :18:25. | |
been created with the new administration, Britain holds the | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
pen as we are told in the Security Council. There is nothing to stop us | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
hosting a conference that will try and bring all the sides together as | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
well as taping the resolution because it will be several months | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
before the American administration will take office and get into the | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
right positions and of course they may take a different do to the Obama | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
administration. I'm very grateful for the Member of Leicester for his | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
comments and indeed absolutely that is a demonstration of how we can | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
show international leadership. I know the Secretary of State has been | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
active in this area but we need to build on his efforts to date. We | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
should do so not so because of the humanitarian crisis but also | :19:10. | :19:17. | |
strategic in stopping the bastions of Al-Qaeda whilst de-escalating the | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
tensions of a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Before we | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
take on the role of peace broker we have to face our role in the | :19:27. | :19:39. | |
conflict now. The UK too has often as its quartermaster. This must end | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
now. The UK has exported ?3.3 billion of military committee Saudi | :19:47. | :19:53. | |
Arabia since 2015 and if we're to be an honest broker the Government must | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
suspend arms deals to Saudi Arabia and facilitate a full independent UN | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
led enquiry into devious conduct in the war in Yemen. This has to happen | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
because we also now know that after consistently failing to live up to | :20:09. | :20:18. | |
his responsibilities to -- these responsibilities, the current | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
approach to arms sales has failed in the case of Yemen and the Yemeni | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
people are the innocent victims. This government must show the | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
leadership as that shown by the Netherlands in suspending licences | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
for arms exports to Saudi Arabia. More specifically the US government | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
has a ready been alluded to by the Member for East Lothian, the US | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
government banned the sale of guided munitions kits to Saudi Arabia. I | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
would like to ask the Minister today if he could clarify whether the UK | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
has granted export licence to any similar weapons, manufactured here | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
in the UK and would it be happy to do so in the future. Rather than | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
relying on the Saudis to dispose of these weapons themselves, ministers | :21:03. | :21:04. | |
should demand that these weapons are turned over to our personnel for | :21:05. | :21:13. | |
disposal. Is it not our own legal obligation to do everything we | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
possibly can to prevent their use? Decommissioning them ourselves would | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
serve this responsibility. Will ministers pledge to do so today? | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
Finally in order to be an honest broker, we need to be clear of the | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
involvement in UK forces on the ground in Saudi Arabia. When | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
published reports recommended that the UK Government and to the | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
following questions, how many UK personnel assisting the Armed Forces | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
and in what roles including BAE Systems and employees. What is the | :21:48. | :21:56. | |
extent of the operations and how the UK personnel advising the Saudi | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
Arabian Armed Forces on law and what level of understanding do they have | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
of the coalition 's regard for international humanities and its | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
operations in Yemen. These answers should be forthcoming now. Madam | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
Deputy Speaker, this government has an opportunity to show international | :22:13. | :22:20. | |
leadership, it has an opportunity to use our own power and influence in | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
the Middle East. To stop violence and not sell more weapons. It has an | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
opportunity to end suffering, the suffering of millions of Yemeni men | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
and women and children, but in order to do this it must come clean with | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
this house and with the country in our involvement to date and the | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
actions it has taken to put things right. And then truly then, it can | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
then play its part in consigning this forgotten conflict to history | :22:49. | :22:57. | |
where it belongs. Let me start by echoing everything that my | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
honourable friend, the Member for West Derby and both sides of the | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
House have said today about the humanitarian crisis in Yemen. Making | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
gradually my honourable friend for securing this very important debate. | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
Let me also make it clear at the outset that we agree with the | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
principles behind a UN resolution 2216. We all want to see Yemen | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
restored to the of legitimate stable and democratic government is capable | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
of peacefully leading the whole world, the whole country and we all | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
want to see the beauty rebels hold to account for the illegal coup and | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
for the atrocities they have committed during this were -- | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
Houthies but with all due respect to the Government and to some of those | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
on my benches, it is possible to agree with the principles will also | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
disagreeing profoundly. Especially in the way this has been enforced, | :23:54. | :24:04. | |
and with the abject failure of the British government to bring the war | :24:05. | :24:15. | |
to an end. I will move... If members will give me a moment I have ten | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
minutes and I will be going into details. Let me talk about the war | :24:20. | :24:28. | |
crimes on both sides and on these bench as we have said many times | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
just as the UN has that all leading human rights groups and a number of | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
select committees of this house that the only way to ensure the | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
comprehensive, thorough and impartial investigation of those | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
alleged crimes is to commission and independent enquiry. The Government | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
has been consistent to the call and they have said the Saudi led | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
coalition must be left to investigate themselves. Let's see | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
how that is going Shall We. In October revealed that this dispatch | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
box that the 3000 documented air strikes, but to the end of August | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
2016, the coalition's joint incident assessment team has issued report on | :25:12. | :25:20. | |
just nine. A pathetic 0.002%. How many more reports have been | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
completed since then? Madam Deputy Speaker, they have completed just | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
for. -- four. Of those 13 investigations which were use the | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
word unreservedly, there are only three where culpability has been | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
found on the coalition. On the other ten cases including 241 civilian | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
deaths and the bombing of four features, three medical facilities, | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
one wedding, one food market, one cattle market, they have found, | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
surprise surprise at the coalition has done nothing wrong. This is the | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
investigatory body into which the Government has put all of its faith | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
to ensure that the coalition is not violating international law. Let us | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
look at the man who is in charge. Colonel Mansell Al Mansoor, or as he | :26:10. | :26:16. | |
is known by some in Bahrain, the butcher. In 2011 with a popular | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
uprising in Bahrain brutally suppressed and martial law being put | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
into place, Colonel Al Mansoor was the military lawyer who presided | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
over the kangaroo court which was to jail and execute the protest the | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
activists, the activists, the opposition politicians, the | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
teachers, the religious clerics, the human rights campaigners, in fact | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
anyone seen as a threat to the Bahrain regime. Hundreds were jailed | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
or sent to death under his orders and yet this is the man to him the | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
Government had put all of its faith to investigate alleged war | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
The Government is either naive, or negligent. But either way, this is | :26:59. | :27:06. | |
not good enough. I thought it telling, Mr Speaker, | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
when the minister said at the Saudi collision on Tuesday: It is having | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
to provide reports when it makes mistakes, and has never done that | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
before. It has no experience of even writing reports. That much is | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
obvious, given it produced 13 reports in eight months but what is | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
more telling is the implication that the roll of the situation is to | :27:34. | :27:42. | |
identify mistakes. So, contrary... The honourable gentlemen shouts but | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
what he said on Tuesday and I'm quoting him, it is videoing to | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
provide reports when it has made mistakes. So if it is to identify | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
mistakes, the situation is not investigating whether international | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
law is breached but it has been taking on trust. Tall is doing is | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
looking at a handful of high-profile incidents and in one or two cases, | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
saying a mistake has been made. This is not good enough. | :28:14. | :28:21. | |
The honourable gentlemen is not doing his cause any good. It is not | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
good enough as an investigation or good enough as the basis for | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
confidence that our arms laws are not being breached for it to be | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
investigated by Mansour and to be investigated in the way it is. 13 | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
reports in eight months is not good enough. It is not good enough. Let | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
me turn to the role that Britain must play in bringing an end to the | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
conflict. I go back to what the minister said on Tuesday: The House | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
may remember I asked why the UK had not presented its resolution to the | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
Security Council, the minister explained: We will not get a | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
Security Council resolution passed until we get the cessation of | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
hostilities in place. If that is the case, Mr Deputy Speaker, why does | :29:14. | :29:19. | |
clause one of the UK's draft resolution demand an immediate | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
cessation of hostilities? Why would the first line of the resolution | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
demand something already in place? In October, the UK's ambassador to | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
the UN said: We have decided to put forward a draft Security Council | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
resolution on Yemen, calling for cessation of has tillities and a | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
resumption of the political process. In other words, the resolution which | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
was designed to be the driving force behind a ceasefire and peace talks. | :29:49. | :29:58. | |
Just as it was with resolution 1860 on Gaza, on 2174 on Libya, as it was | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
on resolution 2254 on Syria. For the minister to claim we must have a | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
ceasefire before the resolution make no, sir sense. So what is the | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
explanation for the delay? I give way to the honourable gentlemen. | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
I don't know where to start but to begin by saying when a draft | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
resolution is put together, the reason why we don't air it in public | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
is the details may change. So she needs to hold on until the UN | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
resolution comes about and we then debate that I pose the question, has | :30:35. | :30:41. | |
she read the UN Security Council resolution 2216? The reason I ask is | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
that it calls for the same thing. She is asking for a ceasefire but it | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
is inherent in the UN Security Council resolution 2216. I am very | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
interested to hear what he says and will listen to a care what he says, | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
and interested to hear, as I know that the Government says on many | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
occasions that the Saudi led intervention in Yemen is something | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
which is UN-backed and that they rely on the same resolution. I would | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
be interested to hear where that is in the revolution and how it is able | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
to be claimed that Saudi intervention in Yemen is... | :31:25. | :31:32. | |
ALL SPEAK AT ONCE, would my honourable friend | :31:33. | :31:40. | |
give way? I don't think there is a huge gap between what the two | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
frontbenchers is a saying. It was common knowledge what was in the | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
draft resolution. Every member of the Security Council spoke if favour | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
of the ceasefire. Given everyone knows what is in the resolution, | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
there is no reason why this cannot be tabled. | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
I agree. For 50 days we have known what is in this draft resolution and | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
we wait and wait for the British to put the resolution on the table. | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
There is support for it. It has a number of elements in it. I wish to | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
explain perhaps the reasons why the British are not putting it on the | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
table. I will take interventions as necessary if the minister wishes to | :32:26. | :32:34. | |
explain. I do ask her to perhaps join in with the spirit of the | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
debate to look at the positives what we can do. She is focussing deeply | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
on a draft resolution she has got, which I promise you, having been | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
involved in the Riyadh talks in December, it is now out of date. I | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
will go into detail but if she devotes more minutes to this, it is | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
superfluous to the good debate we have had in the chamber. | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
Can I remind there is another debate to follow, so there are not many | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
more minutes remaining, only about 1.5 minutes remaining. | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
I will go through the speech. The truth is that Saudi Arabia does not | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
want this resolution to be presented. When asked about the UK's | :33:21. | :33:27. | |
draft resolution in November by an Arab newspaper it was said that | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
there was a joint agreement with Britain concerning the draft | :33:34. | :33:35. | |
resolution, and whether there is a need for it or not, the newspaper | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
went on to say that the Saudi ambassador said that the UK draft | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
resolution includes: Unnecessary text in addition to wrong timing. | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
There it is. Saudi Arabia does not sit on the UN Security Council but | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
has been able to veto the UK's draft resolution without so much of a | :33:58. | :34:04. | |
discussion. Why? Is it clause 4 that cause for full and transparent | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
investigation of war crimes? Or is it clause 5 that calls on sides to | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
negotiate a political solution on the basis of a UN roadmap given that | :34:15. | :34:22. | |
President Hadi described the roadmaps a betrayal of the blood of | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
the martyrs, or is it that just likes a areaed and Syria, Saudi | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
Arabia sees no valuable in agreeing the ceasefire when it believes that | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
the rebellion can be crushed, no matter the civil Ouwejan casualties, | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
the humanitarian cost and because no matter what they do, they know this | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
Tory Government will remain on their side. Mr Speaker, the Foreign | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
Secretary was right last month to call Yemen a proxy war. He was right | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
to criticise Saudi Arabia's puppet earring. While I am happy to applaud | :34:58. | :35:05. | |
his a honesty, it is just his hypocrisy, all the more | :35:06. | :35:07. | |
disappointing. If he knows what Saudi Arabia are doing in Yemen, he | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
should follow the American lead to stop selling arms. If he is worried | :35:13. | :35:20. | |
about the scale of casualties, there should be a UN-led investigation to | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
see if the international laws are broken. And if he would like to see | :35:24. | :35:31. | |
an end to the conflict and get the yellow yen children the aid that | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
they need, have the guts to stand up to Saudi Arabia and stop the | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
delaying tactics and do the decent thing, present the draft UN | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
resolution, end the conflict, demand an independent investigation of war | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
crimes and send a signal of intent to the Saudis today by supporting | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
the back bench motion. Thank you very much. I'm saddened to hear the | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
comments by the frontbench. I'm not sure that they are supported by | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
those that sit behind her. I will say after the final statement, that | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
it was shameful to say that Saudi Arabia is not wanting a ceasefire in | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
the same way that Assad doesn't want a ceasefire in Syria is shameleful | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
and show as miss under standing of what is happening. I will | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
congratulate my honourable friend, we have known each other a long time | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
since the days of being involved in student politics and the honourable | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
member for Liverpool west Derby for securing the debate which has been | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
reflected in the majority of speeches, showing a sense of a | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
growing understanding and expertise. Without inis thing anybody, I would | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
say that we have moved on from the Thursday afternoon. Armchair | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
generals that look at things through a particular prism to understand | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
that this is a deeply complicated issue and conflict and the solutions | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
are complicated as well. Now, the starting with the conflict | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
and the causes of conflict, which many have touched on. In 2014, the | :37:15. | :37:22. | |
Huthi forces and those loyal around the capital that forced out the | :37:23. | :37:30. | |
legitimate government have attacked Saudi Arabia, shelled border | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
villages and killed Saudi civilians as well. There was a military | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
occupation to restore the government to deter aggression that otherwise | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
would have been likely to reach the port of Aidan and defend the Saudi | :37:46. | :37:54. | |
border. In 2015, the UN security rose luges condemned the Houthi | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
actions. Paragraph 5 called for a cessation of violence. In this | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
context, the UK support's the coalition's efforts. UK diplomatic | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
efforts also have played an important role. Government believes | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
a political settlement is the only way to find lasting peace in creme | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
yen. We have about the at the forefront of the effort to make | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
progress towards this goal. In July last year, here in London we brought | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
together the foreign ministers of Saudi Arabia, the United Arab | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
Emirates, the US Secretary of State, to show support for the role of the | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
UN in mediating a solution to the crisis. This, I will give way at the | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
end but I'm under pressure from the deputy speaker. This informal group | :38:44. | :38:50. | |
of key players is known as the quad and meetings expanded to include the | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
UN Special Envoy and other represents from other Gulf countries | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
as well. I attend a meeting in Riyadh on the 18th of December, to | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
engage in the process to put the needs of the Yemeni people first. We | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
are to continue to engage with the parties throughout the region to | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
support peace. I have spoken to President Hadi to emphasise the | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
needs to find a way forward in the political process. We had | :39:20. | :39:26. | |
transition, and there will be a takeover from John Cary, this person | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
is familiar with the area. I will give way at the end. I must pay | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
tribute and comment on the other contributions made. The honourable | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
gentlemen paid tribute to the humanitarian work. My Right | :39:45. | :39:52. | |
Honourable friend, the member for Penrith and the Border, in his | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
place, has been engaged on this. It is well recognised across the floor | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
of the work Britain does and marks our place on the Security Council in | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
the role we play in this particular conflict. He touched on the region. | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
I will not give way. I am under pressure. I wish there was more | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
time. If there is time I would be delighted to give way. He touched on | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
the history of the region but it is worth underlying that there are | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
complex divisions in the country. It is not just simple those sporting | :40:26. | :40:33. | |
Hadi and the hathis. There has been a power struggle since the | :40:34. | :40:41. | |
unification in 1990. There are tribes, militants, elites, group, | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
terrorist organisations which leads to instability on a grand scale. | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
Loyalties are not firm. They move and come and go along with the winds | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
as well. That is the backdrop to which we are dealing with this | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
matter. He asked a key question as to when we will join calls for an | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
independent inquiry, which we have said we would support, I will make | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
the argument for that case coming to fore. My Right Honourable friend for | :41:07. | :41:13. | |
the East Bedfordshire gave a powerful speech to reflect his grabs | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
of what is going on there. Paying tribute to Stephen O'Brien and the | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
whole House will join him in doing that at the United Nations for | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
exposing what is happening and what more work must be done. He also | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
spoke about the visit, which I thought remarkable. I was pleased to | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
be involved of the Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister. Have we ever heard | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
of a Foreign Minister from the Gulf nations coming to the House, meeting | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
Parliamentarians and answering each question as best he could. I hope | :41:48. | :41:54. | |
that continues. He made it clear why would we want to bomb farms and | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
schools in yep yen? That places into context that these are two countries | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
with a deep history with each other. No long-term interest in Saudi | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
Arabia causing damage right aRoss the piece to yell yen in the way | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
some of the frontbench described. It is not in their interest as the | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
international condemnation that brings about. He also says that yes, | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
he that Saudi Arabia is slow in providing the reporting that | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
everybody in this House has been calling for. Absolutely, he admits | :42:27. | :42:33. | |
that. He said that he is willing to ask for help, can we help him | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
provide that? This is very much a reserved country, it is unused to | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
the limelight it is now adapting to live in. It is unused to sustained | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
warfare that it is now participating in and unused to providing the | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
reporting and the scrutiny required when sustained warfare takes place | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
in the same way we have had to learn the same mechanisms to provide that | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
transparency that is now expected on the battle field. | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
On the issue of transparency that they should learn from us but can | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
the minister explain why when he said they had immediately decided to | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
correct the mistakes that they had given to this house, both in debates | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
and parliamentary questions, he has just confirmed to me at 11 minutes | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
past three that in fact the Foreign Secretary knew it on the 20th of | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
June, why did it take a month to come with this information? The | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
Defence Secretary made a point about that. He knows me and I've done my | :43:39. | :43:48. | |
best to be as transparent as possible and any members of the | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
opposition who have been ministers and government know we have one of | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
the best civil service in the world dealing with thousands and thousands | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
of written answers. I will finish my point. Occasionally mistakes are | :44:00. | :44:06. | |
made, we put our hands up and say they have been made. I'm sorry there | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
was a delay, as soon as we realised one error was made with ended an | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
investigation to see and there were out of nearly 100 PMQ 's, there was | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
one clerical error which continued on. There was a handful and we kept | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
six out of almost a hundred whether wording was incorrect. We did an | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
investigation which took some time. I tell the House now which I did | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
before, I apologise for that. There is no conspiracy here, it is an | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
error and it is on my shoulders that I take it and I apologise to the | :44:41. | :44:48. | |
House. I will now move on. I want to talk about the honourable Member for | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
Leicester EC made important points about this being a forgotten war and | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
today's debate has made sure we have not forgotten about it. He talks | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
about a ceasefire and this gives me license to talk about the security | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
resolution which is in the process of being written. It is working on | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
the basis of the road map discussed on the 19th of December and it | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
includes seven steps and when I mention these, I will elaborate a | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
little, we can see how complicated it is to get a consensus on the | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
ground for these steps. There are security steps for the ritual of | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
equipment, there are a crude roles and appointments for who will run a | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
transition process. There are consultations in accordance with the | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
GCC negotiations and the partnership for peace agreement and the UN | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
security resolution to 216 and additional withdrawals and the | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
signing of an agreement itself, and a potential donor conference which | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
we need a commitment for and finally leading up to electoral reform. That | :45:56. | :46:02. | |
is complicated business. That is why a UN security Council resolution | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
will not be a draft form. That one is out of date. I will not give way. | :46:07. | :46:15. | |
My honourable friend for Beckenham... Points of order. In | :46:16. | :46:28. | |
your absence there has been a bit of backwards and forwards between the | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
front benches, I gave way on several occasions. And he is now making it | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
clear that he will not allow me to intervene the tour and... Order. Are | :46:38. | :46:45. | |
you sitting down. Let's be clear about this. Either side, it is up to | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
the Minister or the Shadow Minister to give way, that is the rules. The | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
other points, I know this debate was meant to finish at 330 and we are | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
running over, if the minister does not give way it is his choice, there | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
is no need to get uptight about it, that is life. I'm grateful for your | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
guidance and I understand the remaining two minutes... This is not | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
a continuation I hope. Let's get to the end of the debate. There are | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
people who want to move on. I'm looking after all members of the | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
House and all members who wish to speak in the next debate, we weren't | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
to do so if we run over. Please let's get to the end. I'm sorry I | :47:32. | :47:41. | |
finished. Mr Deputy Speaker, just to continue in the last two minutes | :47:42. | :47:48. | |
that I have, I want to make the point that my honourable friend from | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
Beckenham made on Tuesday. The fundamental backdrop to this is in | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
essence a Cold War that has existed between the Sunni and Shi'ite | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
leadership, and we need to solve that. We need to move forward from | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
that because there is extra technically and theologically no | :48:07. | :48:09. | |
doctrinal difference between the two faiths themselves, they both believe | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
in the centrality of the Prophet Muhammad and it all goes down to the | :48:14. | :48:20. | |
difference in succession. Was it Ali the son-in-law and cousin was it | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
Abubakar the father-in-law and since then there have been tensions in | :48:24. | :48:31. | |
Islamic history and peace and prosperity might improve if the two | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
faiths could reconcile their political differences. That is at | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
the core of what a lot of challenges are that to find in the Middle East. | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
Time prevents me Mr Deputy Speaker from being able to respond to other | :48:45. | :48:52. | |
contributions although I would do my best, but I will enter by | :48:53. | :49:00. | |
clarifying... I will give way unless I can answer the question as I'm | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
about to which is when we feel it would be inappropriate to not have | :49:05. | :49:13. | |
faith in the Saudi system itself. In conclusion Mr Deputy Speaker, the | :49:14. | :49:16. | |
Government is not opposing calls for an international independent | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
investigation of the first and foremost we want to see the Saudis | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
investigate the breaches of international humanitarian law which | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
have been attributed to them and for the investigation is to be thorough | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
and conclusive. They have the best insight into their own military | :49:31. | :49:36. | |
purposes and can have their own clarification and to apply these | :49:37. | :49:43. | |
lessons in the best possible way. This is the standard Mr Deputy | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
Speaker that we set ourselves and our allies. When allegations were | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
made against us in Afghanistan and Iraq, we investigated those claims | :49:52. | :49:59. | |
and when for example... The US investigated that incident and | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
applied it to their military procedures to ensure this would not | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
happen again. They have reported they are investigating allegations | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
and any lessons learnt to be acted upon. As of today only 13 have been | :50:14. | :50:20. | |
reported, the machine is slow and the conduct is new and the team is | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
learning its way. I keep putting pressure on them and I will continue | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
to do so and I make it very clear that should lose faith in that | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
process which is beginning, to digress how long it took for the | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
Chilcott enquiry to come together, this is a machine that we have in | :50:40. | :50:42. | |
this country which is well versed to the legal parameters you have to | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
deal with. We need to have faith in Saudi Arabia to say yes these must | :50:48. | :50:57. | |
be forthcoming. In conclusion I believe this has been a very good | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
debate and I thank the backbenches. This is not a forgotten crisis and | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
we remain fully engaged. We will continue to lead the way providing | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
humanitarian support, ultimately it is for the Yemenis themselves who | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
need to read the compromise indeed. We stand ready to help them. I have | :51:16. | :51:22. | |
to say I'm very disappointed that the minister in his final remarks in | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
his speech basically didn't give us any further indication of when the | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
Government would move to actually support an independent | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
investigation. I'm pleased he responded to my point but I don't | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
think we were taken further on that issue and it is an issue to which | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
the House will return. There are many areas of agreement and this is | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
a complex country, the humanitarian crisis is appalling, all of us want | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
to work together to ensure access for humanitarian organisations and | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
we welcome the positive leadership role. We need a ceasefire, a | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
political settlement and reconstruction. I want to finish | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
with two points. This is co-sponsored by the honourable | :52:09. | :52:10. | |
gentleman for Boruc in Leamington. He chairs the committee on arms | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
exports. That committee plays a crucial role in this house on | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
monitoring arms exports. Some argue that should be abolished and instead | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
they should all fund to fall under the international trade committee | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
but this demonstrates the importance of effective scrutiny including the | :52:29. | :52:39. | |
development of affairs, is not a question of international trade. It | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
was evidenced in my committee that said there is a paradox at the heart | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
of the UK's approach to Yemen. We are generous on aid but also | :52:50. | :52:52. | |
contributing to the conflict through our arms sales. The views on both | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
sides of the House has been reflected in the debate today. I | :52:59. | :53:04. | |
hope all of us can come together behind this motion supported by | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
three select committees of the House which is that we should have this | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
investigation because yes we want is peace birds alongside peace we want | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
justice. A ceasefire is a necessary condition and not sufficient and we | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
will only get justice when we have a full independent investigation into | :53:23. | :53:24. | |
all alleged violations by all parties to this conflict. The | :53:25. | :53:35. | |
question is on the order paper as many to the opinion say ayes, on the | :53:36. | :53:42. | |
contrary snow. The eyes have -- the ayes have it. We now come to the | :53:43. | :53:50. | |
debate on the political situation in the African great Lake. Thank you | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
very much and this is the first opportunity the House has had since | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
the general election to discuss the Great Lakes. I shall curtail my | :54:00. | :54:07. | |
remarks on what to allow sufficient time for those on the backbenches | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
wishing to speak. Having lost 12 minutes or more on the debate so | :54:12. | :54:19. | |
far. They were the first three countries, the countries have had | :54:20. | :54:27. | |
things go better in recent times and I start with Rwanda which has a | :54:28. | :54:36. | |
booming economy which has moved on from the genocide of 1994 in the | :54:37. | :54:43. | |
most admirable ways. The White House but a statement in November 2015 | :54:44. | :54:55. | |
saying the Rugani in many ways has an opportunity to enshrine his | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
legacy by honouring his commitments to respect the time limit set when | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
he entered office. Any move to prolong his hold on power would be | :55:05. | :55:13. | |
to the detriment of his legacy. Samantha Power called for him to | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
step down in 2017. What is the UK Government position in relation to | :55:19. | :55:28. | |
this? Secondly in relation to unite the toes report on the freedom of | :55:29. | :55:36. | |
and freedom of expression, has the UK been making representation, this | :55:37. | :55:43. | |
is meeting with the Rwandans of 2015 to ensure other political parties | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
are not being labelled as enemies of the state and that the plurality of | :55:49. | :55:54. | |
democracy becomes a key part alongside a booming economy of | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
building this is one of the great powerhouses of Africa and thirdly | :56:01. | :56:10. | |
NGO's and the function of NGO's, the other big worry at the moment in | :56:11. | :56:17. | |
Rwanda, not least the relation to the leadership of NGO's, what is our | :56:18. | :56:30. | |
position as a country on this and what representations are we making | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
on these three issues? I shall come from Rwanda and it'd be good to go | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
the same border, I'm sure there are others who wish to say but I suspect | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
there will be less said about the Central African Republic which has | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
been something of a, a place not mentioned, not visited by anyone. It | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
has been too unsafe for anyone to visit, although the Pope has now | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
demonstrated that it is moving on and indeed impressively. This we | :57:01. | :57:08. | |
have seen 79% at the last election, we are seeing democracy and would | :57:09. | :57:15. | |
democracy the possibilities of stability and of peace and of | :57:16. | :57:16. | |
development. That's tempered by the Amnesty | :57:17. | :57:26. | |
International report this week. What is the Government's response to that | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
report? And what assistances are Government giving in allowing this | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
country to move from its dark years? Or are we standing by the side? What | :57:37. | :57:45. | |
assisting are we giving, weather remnants of the resistance army | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
remain, causing turmoil, what ais a cystance are we giving to the | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
central African public in allowing it to become a more normalised, | :57:56. | :58:02. | |
stable country, that can grow democratically and economically with | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
a significant level of peace. The Congo, not the DRC, which will be a | :58:10. | :58:17. | |
issue of concern, where we have a lot of relationships but Congo, | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
hardly mentioned. What are we doing there, where there is a level of | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
political instability, to ensure that is recognised and strengthened? | :58:29. | :58:36. | |
And as an important aside, the worldwide -- the World Wildlife Fund | :58:37. | :58:44. | |
a significant country in terms of preservation of forest elephants and | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
lowland guerrilla, and also, it seems to me, a huge potential | :58:49. | :58:54. | |
tourist boost, whether one welcomes it or regrets it, a significant part | :58:55. | :59:01. | |
in maintaining endangered species in a country which overlaps to the CAR | :59:02. | :59:07. | |
and its National Park bordering Congo. What are we doing to give | :59:08. | :59:13. | |
assistance to allow that to develop? This is an why where we have great | :59:14. | :59:19. | |
interest in the country, not least through Prince William's exertions, | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
it is one where in 2018 we are hosting a major conference but one | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
where we have expertise and there are opportunities there to do | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
significant, in a country rarely mentioned in this House but one that | :59:35. | :59:41. | |
I give a passing mention to, even though the All-party group is | :59:42. | :59:48. | |
intending to propose to the IPAU delegation and many members | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
participating in that, and it maybe that the CER and the Congo are | :59:53. | :00:00. | |
included in that and the Foreign Office would be keen to see such a | :00:01. | :00:07. | |
delegation taking place. Taking place into the areas where we must | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
build our relationship an consolidate their gains. There are | :00:13. | :00:20. | |
countries that have improved and significantly in recent times, and | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
welcome so. So one should temper criticisms and support for improving | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
democracy which we should continue to press them on with recognition of | :00:30. | :00:36. | |
progress. In bar ownedy, which I visited two years ago -- Barundi, it | :00:37. | :00:45. | |
is a less happy state of affairs, DIFID has pulled out. We do not have | :00:46. | :00:55. | |
an embassy there. The press recently, over the issue, has been a | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
mistake as Barundi is increasingly anglocised in its approach to the | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
world as part of the east African community has followed many others | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
and gone its own way, with Presidents that seem to think they | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
should be there for life but in this case with turmoil and a lot of | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
violence on thing a lights of the present President and his entourage | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
and huge dangers within that country. What are we doing to assist | :01:26. | :01:34. | |
and to intervene? Do we support the use of Chapter 7 of the UN Charter | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
in order to deploy a employers in accordance with UN resolution 2303 | :01:41. | :01:47. | |
of July 2016? What will it take for the UN Security Council to take this | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
decision and are we working to that end? And what other leverage are we | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
using on the President to ensure that this country moves on? This is | :01:59. | :02:06. | |
a country again hardly spoken about, whose genocide compares with the | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
worst in Africa in recent and historic times, at an extraordinary | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
level. An extraordinary level of genocide hidden away in the '70s and | :02:17. | :02:26. | |
the '80s, the biggest single proportionate dislocation of people | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
anywhere in the country, in the world, moving across Tanzania in | :02:31. | :02:39. | |
dramatic numbers from 1972 onwards, then being successfully | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
reassimilated an extraordinary success in reassimilating a | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
population that had been displaced and yet we stand at a side from all | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
of this? And the country in need where its democracy is under threat, | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
where violence has been Pre-Budget Reportedly breaking out and with the | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
legacy of the genocide, 1,000 bodies in a mass grave just discovered in | :03:04. | :03:14. | |
the last 24 hours in an area of Barundi, highlighting the hidden | :03:15. | :03:22. | |
genocide. And what is the NGO situation, with | :03:23. | :03:30. | |
the malaria situation, for a country that is not really moving forward in | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
tackling malaria. And of course we are talking about the second poorest | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
country on the planet. And when it comes to human rights, what are we | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
doing in Geneva with the Human Rights Council to ensure that Ba | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
are, undi is not given a soft option? It is tackled over what it | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
is doing? So that it can become a great success in Africa, rather than | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
regress into dictatorship and with that the ensuing violence. | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
The final country I shall mention, the seventh poorest on the planet, | :04:11. | :04:20. | |
the biggest, the DRC, a country of extraordinary size with its 60 | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
million population, with its level of displacement, with its wars on | :04:27. | :04:33. | |
the eastern side for so long. Again, opportunities are great but what are | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
we doing? The 31 of December agreement on progression so that the | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
President can stand down, he has not yet signed it. Although, most | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
observers seem to think that he will but what are we doing to ensure that | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
democracy prevails in this huge country? And what are we doing to | :04:55. | :05:01. | |
ensure as well, as we have a significant aid programme there, | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
that the move on of Kabila isn't seen as a silver bullet for the | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
country, and is seen as a starting point for significant change. And | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
what are we doing to ensure that our efforts are not entirely | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
concentrated on the conflict areas of the east but the whole mass of | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
the rest of the country, the largest, one calls it illegal, I am | :05:29. | :05:37. | |
not sure that is the right term but ad hoc landmine in the world, a huge | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
chunk of the country with the most extraordinary health and safety | :05:45. | :05:52. | |
caned death rate, and our expert team could play a significant role. | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
Thank you for giving way. Whilst I understand, there is lots of cry of | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
what are we doing? We can only do a lot by working with others. We are | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
doing a significant amount through the Foreign Office level and DIFID, | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
and we work along with the western nations in democracy building in a | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
number of these states. We have a project, my own party and I suspect, | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
that there will be integral projects to apply, in this whole Africa and | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
great region. And also, just to say this, it does strike that there is a | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
country to which he has not referred, Uganda and the security | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
implications of what is going on there will be of great importance to | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
this whole region in the years to come. | :06:45. | :06:53. | |
And he makes his point eloquently. The rack thank you callities for the | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
minister, the Electoral Commission has no money, no capacity. Our | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
expertise in elections is huge, is this an area where we can give | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
expertise and support? And some of the conflicts, for example in | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
Katangu with the Bantu, the competition for land, how are we | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
looking at how are aid programme could be assisting in ameliorating | :07:23. | :07:35. | |
that situation, and when it comes to the forces that are effective? What | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
is our approach to ensuring that those forces are effective and our | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
expertise is brought to bear as part of it? And finally in relation to | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
the mining sector, because alongside our aid programme we have huge | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
interests, we have mining companies heavily involved in the Democratic | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
Republic of Congo, it is the minerals, that are without question | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
the reason why in the east and the south-east there has been so much | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
continuous war, battling for minerals or groups funded by mineral | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
but what are we doing to ensure that we are not responsible with | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
companies in this country, indeed, looking at the bribery, looking at | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
the payments to military groups? How do we know? Does the Government not | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
see the importance of the proposals on beneficial ownership with places | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
such as the British Virgin Islands and how that directly connects in | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
into the conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo, through mineral | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
companies who are based in off-shore locations such as the British Virgin | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
Islands, allowing as the New York Times has revealed recently, a whole | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
series of what can be only described as suspicious bank transfers, 100 | :09:03. | :09:10. | |
million of them, going towards Mr Kabila's adopted brother one | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
example. Bur it is clear, in the region it is clear looking at our | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
own Serious Fraud Office, which has had to be involved, that without | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
skimming the surface of the problem, we could be doing a significant | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
amount if we were simply able to clarify and confirm beneficial | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
ownership of what the monies and the mining interests are, and then hold | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
them to account. Some people feel that the various military forces | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
battling illegally there, are using mining money in a very significant | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
way both through bribery and other direct extractions. We have a | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
responsibility, there, a huge responsibility to the region as well | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
as to the Democratic Republic of Congo, and what are we doing? And | :10:02. | :10:16. | |
finally, I should pay credit to callow Velazquez assisting and in | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
Carole's case for many, many years and to CAFOD who have been | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
influential in supporting and assisting the Catholic Church in | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
getting the break through in the DRC. There are many other great | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
players in this country in the aid world but they should be | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
congratulated in their work. I could say much more, Mr Deputy Speaker, I | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
won't, I hand over to others. Marvellous. The question is, how to | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
consider the security situation of the African Great Lakes. Can I say | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
to members up to seven minutes and we all get equal time. I know that | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
the frontbench don't like being squeezed. | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
I refer to my entries in the register of interest and pay tribute | :11:07. | :11:14. | |
to the honourable member for a well informed speech and for my | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
honourable friend that sponsored the debate. We are increasingly engaged | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
in the Great Lakes region and rightly so. It is vital to continue | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
this and for the long-term, not to dip in and out but maintain our | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
presence in a positive way in many respects that I will come to. I have | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
to say that I'm standing here more positive about the Great Lakes than | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
I have been for some time. We have on many occasions in the past year | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
raised our concerns about the future of the Democratic Republic of Congo. | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
Yet I hope that the agreement reached on New Year's Eve will be | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
remembered in the same way that we remember the Good Friday agreement | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
for Northern Ireland when people put aside differences in the interests | :12:03. | :12:04. | |
of people. It talks about elections in 2017, no | :12:05. | :12:17. | |
third term for President Kabila, and I want to pay tribute to the | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
catholic church, who have done so much, also to the retiring envoy who | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
has done a tremendous job, and indeed to our own Foreign and | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
Commonwealth Office, and indeed to our own Great Lakes envoy. I also | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
want to pay tribute to the work done by... on a visit, particularly the | :12:39. | :12:45. | |
health work done in remote regions, access to water, some of the best | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
projects I have ever seen done at low cost by people really committed | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
to the Democratic Republic of Congo the decades. These are not | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
consultants that come and go, these are really committed people who work | :12:58. | :13:07. | |
the porous. Mr Deputy Speaker, Randy is another matter, but I had to say | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
that we have two as positive as we can beat -- Burundi. It is vital | :13:12. | :13:21. | |
that ID 17 is better, every effort had to be put in to turn this | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
country around, principally by those that have the want ability for it. | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
One thing we have to remember is to ensure that any agreements, when | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
made, are watertight. The Burundi problem arises from a lack of | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
clarity over how many terms the current president was going to be | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
re-elected, how many terms he was to serve. And as a result of that, we | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
have had hundreds, if not thousands, of people killed. These agreement | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
must look forward to problems that may arise in the future when they | :13:54. | :14:04. | |
are signed. I believe we must continue to support economic job. It | :14:05. | :14:11. | |
is disappointing that some organisations have withdrawn their | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
support from this process. You can understand the reasons why, Mr | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
Deputy Speaker, but I believe it is the only game in town, and they need | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
to be engaged with it. As the president says, they need to deal | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
with the situation as it is to work with the president, to try to | :14:28. | :14:34. | |
persuade the government of that country to turn away from an | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
extremely dangerous path, to seek extrajudicial killings stopped, to | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
see paramilitaries and roaming gangs go back to lawful activities to | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
restore law and order, and human rights, and above all not to let the | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
blight of ethnic hatred, which might honourable friend referred to. | :14:54. | :15:00. | |
Burundi suffered as grievously from genocide as Rwanda, but it was a | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
roaming genocide over Decatur, not a genocide over a couple of days in | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
1994. Mr Deputy Speaker, I won't say much about wonder, because possibly | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
others will, but it has been a success story, but with many | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
problems along the way. This is a time for the country to come | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
together. It is also a time to look to the future. The president has | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
been a flawed but outstanding leader, and needs, if he stands | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
again, which is likely, to look beyond the next term to who his | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
successor will be. He has the interest of his country at heart. He | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
will want it to prosper in future. He knows he will not be forever, as | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
indeed none of us are. Turning to Tanzania, the country probably | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
closest to my heart in this reading, having lived there for some years, | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
the country has managed the transition to free and fair | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
elections extremely well, except sadly in the case of Zanzibar. There | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
was progress from Zanzibar from 2010 to 2015, but the elections in 2015 | :16:05. | :16:12. | |
were flawed. They were pooled in a way that the government made its | :16:13. | :16:21. | |
views quite cleared clear about. It is vital the island of Zanzibar | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
comes together in whatever way with the union government and resolves | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
this problem for the future. The people of Zanzibar deserve nothing | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
less. They are very peaceful and wonderful people. | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
At the same time, Tanzania has respected the two term limit for | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
presidents impeccably, and we have to pay great credit to that. The | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
CCM, the major ruling party, has achieved a great deal, but it needs | :16:48. | :16:55. | |
to go further. It needs to bring in an independent electoral commission | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
in Tanzania. That is the biggest flaw in Tanzania in Agassi in my | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
opinion. At the moment, at the same time, the opposition needs to use | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
Parliament, and Parliamentary process, to deal with its | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
understandable questions to government, rather than just | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
assuming that it should go onto the streets every time. I pay tribute to | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
the opposition for thinking calmly about that, and not going ahead with | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
a major demonstrations that were proposed in September, which I | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
believe would have resulted in unnecessary violence and possibly | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
deaths. Finally, Mr Deputy Speaker, I would | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
like to refer to Uganda. The examples of former presidents all | :17:35. | :17:43. | |
show the benefit of presidents who recognise the importance of term | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
limits. Those that stay on forever rarely go gracefully, and that | :17:47. | :17:53. | |
surely is a lesson for Uganda. The peace and stability which has been | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
brought from 1985 has been a great relief to the people of Uganda, but | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
proper democratic transition is also a sign of wisdom and maturity. I | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
would like finally to referred to development in all of these | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
countries. In our debate on the sustainable development goals last | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
year, in November, in Westminster Hall, I referred to five levers of | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
developing, which I believe are absolutely crucial and are vital. | :18:21. | :18:28. | |
Jobs and livelihoods, health and research on health, education, | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
gender equality, and infrastructure. The UK are involved in all of these, | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
pretty much in all of these countries, including in Burundi, | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
through multilateral means. It is vital we continue this, and as I | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
said at the beginning, for the long-term committed in a way to | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
ensure the future prosperity of a wonderful part of the world, which | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
is of great importance. I would like to thank my honourable | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
friend from Bassetlaw for securing this very important debate, and I | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
would like to focus on eastern DRC, because I think it is an area that | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
has been overlooked considerably by this place, the West and the world. | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
Stability and security in a Great Lakes region of Africa are too often | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
overlooked by the international community. Throughout the region, | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
violence and displacement have become normalised, while several | :19:30. | :19:37. | |
regions have experienced conflict and human rights abuse. Over a | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
thousand Congolese women are raped every day. It seems uniquely | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
shocking when we talk about it, but the transformation seems to be | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
tragically commonplace, and we seem to accept it. That is a really sad | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
reflection. The result is a relative lack of awareness about action | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
against the political instability that has the set these countries for | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
decades. And worse still, there is a tendency to regard the violence as | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
perpetual, inevitable, in contrast with other parts of the world, which | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
seems more immediately redeemable, and we seem to be more focused upon. | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
The ongoing refugee crisis in Europe and the Mediterranean is testament | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
to this trend, as is Syria. Activism compared to the refugees of eastern | :20:30. | :20:36. | |
DRC and Burundi, and yet refugees, as tragic as their plight was, the | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
numbers of 7000, compared to the millions internally displaced in | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
Burundi and from eastern DRC and DRC, who are displaced the decades, | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
not months, not a year, decades. Worse still, the millions of | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
refugees have been torn from their families, homes and communities, | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
have been forced to live in East African refugee camps for around 20 | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
years. It's a shame that little attention is paid to this particular | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
issue. Having visited Rwanda twice in the past few years and spoken to | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
Congolese refugees who have been accommodated in that particular | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
country, I want to provide some reflections on how I see the issue. | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
Rwanda seems to be a developed country in a relatively stable and | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
increasingly prosperous democracy, while DRC continues to be played by | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
anarchic and systemic violence. According to recent UN statistics, | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
there are currently 2.7 million internally displaced people, as well | :21:39. | :21:46. | |
as 430,000 refugees displaced from eastern DRC, spreading cancer across | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
Burundi, Rwanda, Uganda and Tanzania, nearly half a million | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
people that we seem to ignore when we talk about human rights and | :21:56. | :21:57. | |
helping people. On my first visit, I witnessed | :21:58. | :22:05. | |
first-hand the conditions in which families spanning three generations | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
have had to live. Located at the top of a lonely mountain range, isolated | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
from the attention of the world, the refugee camp houses some 15,000 | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
people. As I say, it has been there since the 1990s. It is overcrowded, | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
lacking in resources and cramped. The shacks and primitive location | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
are crowded on the steep slopes, and inside the camps there is an it" | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
supply of water, electricity and food. Children below 18 years of age | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
represent a staggering 51.2% of the camp's population, and since they | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
have grown up in these camps, they know nothing else. This is a world | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
in which they live, a placed the world doesn't seem to understand or | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
care about. Poor education, insufficient public amenities | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
abound. The situation in the DRC makes it almost impossible for | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
refugees to return home. Over 100 armed militia groups camped out in | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
DRC's impenetrable jungles continue to kill and terrorise families | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
daily. Rape continues to be used as a weapon of war, and I hope that is | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
an issue that this parliament and this chamber will raise again and | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
again in future, because it is an issue we should not turn our backs | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
on. And when the conflict worsens, over 400,000 women can be raped in a | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
year, from the Ugandan Allied 's democratic forces to the democratic | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
forces for the liberation of Rwanda, the eastern DRC is just plagued by | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
murderous militia groups who exploit the country's mineral wealth, and | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
use its proceeds to terrorise communities into subordination. The | :23:50. | :23:50. | |
state is at best ineffectual, and at and they are allowed to descend into | :23:51. | :24:08. | |
mindless violence in pursuit of what is a 27 trillion dollars worth of | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
industry of untapped mineral resources in the DRC. Fighting for | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
control over cotton production, for example, and the DRC's vast gold and | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
tungsten reserves. Fighting frequently breaks out to determine | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
which groups control the lucrative mines, situated in the eastern areas | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
of the country. And the situation shows little sign of improving, with | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
little or no hope of return for the Congolese refugees trapped in these | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
camps, and they've been trapped there for a long time. | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
Unlike those in Calais, they are not provided with comments of rights in | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
their new country. Tanzania and Uganda have restricted the legal | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
right of refugees to work, while Burundi and Malawi have restricted | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
access, Zambia is even restricted access to education for the | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
Congolese refugees. We in this place need to ask why this situation | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
continues with no end in sight. The Minister will undoubtedly point to | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
the efforts of the Catholic Church, the AAU, UNESCO, in trying to broker | :25:19. | :25:26. | |
a lasting peace. Why be actions of the UN peacekeeping force, the | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
largest peacekeeping force that was sent to eastern DRC has failed to | :25:30. | :25:36. | |
stabilise eastern DRC. And now that force is being withdrawn. There | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
doesn't seem to be an enquiry into the failure and ongoing violence, so | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
that refugees are able to return home and conduct their lives without | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
the constant fear of violence and an ending poverty. Just to finally | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
finish, Mr Deputy is bigger, I want to refer to the case of rape. An | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
attitude showed in 2012 be shocking prevalence of the acceptance of rape | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
amongst congressmen, carried out by the South African Justice network, | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
the study heard that one in three men in the eastern DRC admitted to | :26:10. | :26:16. | |
committing sexual assault, while 61% of interviewees stated that women | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
sometimes deserved to be beaten. The DRC has been branded the rape | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
capital of the world, and I hope we will address it in future sessions. | :26:25. | :26:32. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, I congratulate the honourable member of bringing | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
this debate to this place for a wide and comments of speech on the | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
region. There are few areas of the world where the real legacy of | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
colonialism is prevalent. It is also true to say that there is | :26:46. | :26:56. | |
a greater burden to bear due to history of appropriation. I have a | :26:57. | :26:58. | |
particular interest in it, and the fact that the Church has | :26:59. | :27:12. | |
brokered a deal at least put the democratic transition back on the | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
table in the coming year, and that is to be welcomed, although only | :27:16. | :27:23. | |
cautiously, as it remains to be seen if President Kabila signs up. | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
Government repression of protests intensified, of human rights | :27:30. | :27:43. | |
defenders were arbitrarily arrested and convicted for peacefully | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
exercising their rights. Numerous armed groups perpetrating serious | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
abuses of human rights and violations of international | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
humanitarian law, high civilian death toll and mass displacement. It | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
is understandable, therefore, the people are cautious. The deal has | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
been struck, and the DRC is in a better place than it was before. | :28:03. | :28:19. | |
The key structural problems across the region remain and will continue | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
to drive instability unless they are tackled. Many of these stem from the | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
colonial period, as I mentioned at the start, the good governance over | :28:30. | :28:31. | |
natural resources is a massive issue, and is essential. Others have | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
and will speak about that. An equal distribution of land continues to | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
impact on many in the region. Those that have been displaced because of | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
internal conflict often return to find their land has been | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
redistributed in their absence. Whilst that is dramatic enough for | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
an individual, it is far more destabilising if entire committees | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
are displaced and returned to find their land has been seized or salt | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
off in its entirety in their absence. Instability quickly | :29:00. | :29:06. | |
spreads, and it remains that there are many willing to exploit this. -- | :29:07. | :29:16. | |
sold off. 100,000 displaced Burundi and is | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
currently reside in Tanzania. We would do well to remember that it is | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
the poorest countries in this world that host the majority of the | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
world's refugees. You probably find they complain less because they | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
don't see what they do as charity, they see it as their duty to | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
humanity. As the SMP civil liberties spokesperson, it would be remiss for | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
me not to mention some of the problems. We can look to build links | :29:43. | :29:50. | |
with Parliamentary colleagues, and work to strengthen democracy and | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
rule of law. I know a great many colleagues involved with projects | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
developing the democratic institutions. In my role, I chaired | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
a meeting in Westminster looking at how the UK can support the | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
participation of women and the rule of law in the DRC. It was attended | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
by very impressive and courageous women from the DRC. Campaigners, | :30:14. | :30:23. | |
activists, refugees, academics, Mr Deputy Speaker if we need one reason | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
above all others to do everything in our power to support the people of | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
the DRC, it is these women and all the women and children currently | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
living there, so many of whom have been or will become victims of | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
sexual violence. Amnesty International described the problem | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
is rampant, out of control. As we have heard, 1000 women a day, that | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
is 48 per hour, which means that since this debate started not long | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
ago, something like 34 women have been raped in the DRC. What I heard | :30:55. | :31:07. | |
from them haunted me for a long time. I rarely let myself think | :31:08. | :31:17. | |
about it, let alone speak about it I am choosing today not to share the | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
stories that haunted me but I'm in awe of the women, while they told | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
their personal stories, I cannot bear to repeat their words the what | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
the experience has termed is something savage, if it is something | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
I find unspeakable, you know it is extreme. We cannot turn our backs on | :31:37. | :31:44. | |
people in that region and in particular in the DRC, we must tell | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
people that we do care, and at the least we will play our part in | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
ensuring this the people of the DRC are able to participate in free and | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
democratic elections later in the year. | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
Thank you. It is a pleasure to support the lady | :32:04. | :32:13. | |
speaking for Glasgow north-east. It is important rethe elections | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
there and to reiterate the point she made, that it is often the poorest | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
countries in the world that host the largest numbers of displaced people, | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
including refugees. Can I congratulate my friend from Basset | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
Law, for securing the debate and echo in his opening remarks and to | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
congratulate others who is taken part in the debate, the members of | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
the select committee, my friend, the honourable member for staff order, | :32:43. | :32:49. | |
an expert on Tanzania and on Barundi, and a champion for Barundi | :32:50. | :32:59. | |
and the member for mid-Derbyshire. A great champion, if not least, great | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
expert on the situation for the gamma. And in particular on this | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
issue of displacement and refugees in Africa is an important one, one | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
that the select committee will be addressing shortly because it is | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
such an important issue. I want to focus on the Democratic Republic of | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
Congo. The scale of the humanitarian challenge is enormous. At least 1.6 | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
million displaced people. It is estimated about 5% of the poorest | :33:30. | :33:36. | |
people in the world live in DRC. Unless things change, project ex-s | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
suggest that will more than double in 15 years, the period of the | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
global goals. Water aid tell us fewer than 30% of people in DRC have | :33:46. | :33:52. | |
access to basic sanitation. The humanitarian crisis has been shaped | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
by conflict and political instability. I echo what has been | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
said about the encouraging signs with record to the political | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
position and congratulate the Catholic Church and others in the | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
role they've played in mediating talks over the Christmas period. Let | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
us hope now that we see movement towards elections this year in the | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
Democratic Republic of Congo and as my honourable friend says the United | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
Kingdom can play and must play a proactive role, not least in | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
supporting electoral registration and other aspects that the Electoral | :34:29. | :34:36. | |
Commission has responsibility for. There is an inquiry in fragility in | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
the Democratic Republic of Congo. We visited the country last July. We | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
saw some of the work that DIFID is doing. I spoke on Tuesday about the | :34:45. | :34:53. | |
support that CDC is giving to a positive hydroelectric power | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
programme in a region of the DRC. We have seen excellent peace building | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
work being done in the Goma community to bring members of the | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
community and the police to break down barriers to break down the | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
barriers that had built up over the years. We visited a camp for | :35:13. | :35:20. | |
displaced people, and how they are giving back control to people's | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
lives to people who were powerless to do anything but flee from | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
conflict and to a Red Cross hospital in Goma where the patients treated | :35:33. | :35:40. | |
are a slow and steady stream of patients suffering from the most | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
appalling gunshot injuries. This is making a real difference to some of | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
the poorest people in the world, aid given by the UK. The recent history | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
of that country has been violent and unstable but there are some reasons | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
now for cautious hope. Let us as a country play a positive and | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
proactive role in supporting a peaceful solution that enables | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
elections to happen, enables the elections to be free and fair, that | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
puts the focus on human rights but seeks to bring peace to a country | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
savaged by war. The humanitarian crisis, Mr Deputy Speaker will not | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
disappear overnight in the Democratic Republic of Congo, so it | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
is important that we through DIFID, Non-Governmental Organisations and | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
others continue hard work to alleviate the worst aspects of | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
poverty in this country. We on the international development committee | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
on a cross-party basis have seen first hand the many good things done | :36:40. | :36:46. | |
to alleviate poverty in the country and look forward to releasing our | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
report as a result of that inquiry. Thank you. | :36:50. | :37:01. | |
Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome that the debit has taken | :37:02. | :37:08. | |
place in the chamber. The first debate on the Great Lakes. Last | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
January, there was a debate on eastern Africa that touched on a | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
number of similar countries and had a similar debate about the | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
definition of the region. Sadly in that time very little changed in | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
terms of the overall stability of the region, although perhaps there | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
are glimmers of hope. Perhaps the most tragic situation, is that the | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
people most affected by conflict, poverty and food insecurity a | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
usually the people that have done the least and not in position to do | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
very much about it without support and encouragement, so at the heart | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
of the debate there are basic questions about human dignity and in | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
making sure that this is respected. I want to look at the countries | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
touched upon, the regional issues and the role for the UK Government | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
and international actors. The Democratic Republic of Congo has | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
been the main focus of the debate. I have not had the privilege of | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
visiting the country but have met many people from the Democratic | :38:13. | :38:14. | |
Republic of Congo when they visited here, not least at the event | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
organised by my friend from Glasgow north-east and with the Scottish | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
Catholic international aid fund and always moved by the motivation to | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
work despite the challenges, not least the terrible sexual violence. | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
The DRC should be one of the richest countries in the world. We carry a | :38:37. | :38:45. | |
little bit of the DRC in our pockets, in the oil tan in our | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
phones, yet it is the poorest. We enjoy cheap access to technology and | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
don't speak out about the instability that suits the | :38:58. | :39:05. | |
extracting of the components extracted from those countries. I | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
hope there will be fresh elections and President Kabila standing down. | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
Although, as we have seen it is not beyond Presidents to back on on | :39:18. | :39:25. | |
their word. And there are talks with the UN Security Council. There is | :39:26. | :39:32. | |
displacement into Tanzania, Malawi, and a camp that has over 25,000 | :39:33. | :39:40. | |
refugees from Barundi. Yes in Rwanda there is instability, and what price | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
will their President be standing again in 2017. It is important that | :39:45. | :39:54. | |
talks on this is repeated. Africa could have so much to gain | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
from tourism if there was more stability and infrastructure. | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
Few challenges are caused by natural causes but the behaviour of people | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
in the governments and the region and around the world are | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
responsible. That is true of climate change. We in the west have done the | :40:14. | :40:22. | |
most to cause climate change through deckiates of pollution. People of | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
the Great Lakes are affected hardest and threatened by climate change and | :40:29. | :40:36. | |
threatened by increasing demands for water on their biodiversity. There | :40:37. | :40:50. | |
are threats for the pressure of providing food this compounds the | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
weak civil society and the big man politics we have heard about. | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
Investment through government programmes is vital. | :40:59. | :41:07. | |
Without it the cycles will continue. Weak a governance makes it easier | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
for the multinational companies to run riot, whether extracting | :41:15. | :41:23. | |
countries dodging taxes and affecting labour standards, and | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
these companies should be the first in the queue to pay corporate taxes | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
to invest in food, education, and we should be demanding that this | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
Government is supporting this. There is a role for the African Union, | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
interesting to hear from the minister in what preparation and | :41:48. | :41:54. | |
support it is giving in diplomatic, structural or diplomatic support in | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
order to provide a role of peace and stability. It will be good to hear | :42:02. | :42:10. | |
the minister reaffirm the minister to the 0.7% on taxes in spending | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
periods. And in Brexit, it should be a signal that the UK tends to play a | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
positive role in the country in the world and how we engage. | :42:23. | :42:30. | |
INAUDIBLE What progress is being made? What | :42:31. | :42:40. | |
improvements are made on country that are supporting taxes? Will the | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
supply chain management condition after being decoupled from existing | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
UK regulations? And how to promote efforts to promote climate change? | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
Will we work with the Trump administration? And is the UK | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
Government prepared to provide adequate fundings to help adapt to | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
the impact of climate change that is taking place. | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
Is there a similar debate in a year's time? I hope that the | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
minister gets a break from the despatch box as he has been here all | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
afternoon, if we come back in a year's time about the region? What | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
progress will there have been? Will there have been eelections in the | :43:27. | :43:37. | |
DRC? Will the elections in rah Rwanda, or in Barundi? At the end of | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
the day this is about human dignity, our humanity is diminished if we | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
don't step up to the plate to promote a resolution. It stands to | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
reason that people and political will can overcome these problems. | :43:53. | :44:01. | |
I'd like to thank the honourable member for Bassetlaw for securing | :44:02. | :44:08. | |
this debate on the African Great Lakes region. I would also like to | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
thank the backbench business committee for granting this | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
important debate, and I would particularly like to acknowledge the | :44:18. | :44:19. | |
excellent contributions from all sides of the House. The honourable | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
member, my honourable friend from Bassetlaw, who highlighted some of | :44:26. | :44:34. | |
the less mentioned countries of Africa, including the Central | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
African Republic, highlighting the work done by Prince William, and | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
moving on to the more commonly talked about countries in this | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
debate, Burundi and the Democratic Republic of Congo. I would like to | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
thank the honourable member for Stafford, who highlighted his | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
positivity, and I was pleased to hear him say that he felt more | :44:58. | :45:00. | |
positive about the region than he has for a long time, and that's | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
quite encouraging given his expertise having lived in Tanzania. | :45:05. | :45:14. | |
I was pleased to hear him share his expertise on that country. I'd like | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
to thank my honourable friend, the Member for Heinberg, who's moved | :45:18. | :45:28. | |
again, keeping us on our toes. , who highlighted shocking violence, | :45:29. | :45:35. | |
including the widespread acceptance of rape, human rights abuses in the | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
eastern Democratic Republic of Congo, and also highlighting the | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
plight of Congolese refugees. I would like to thank the honourable | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
member for Glasgow North East, sharing her expertise on the | :45:51. | :45:53. | |
Democratic Republic of Congo, and it was my privilege to attend the APPG | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
that she organised with women from the Democratic Republic, whilst I | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
was still fairly new to this role, and it was a great education for me, | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
and I'd like to thank her for organising that meeting and inviting | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
me along. Obviously, the honourable member for | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
Liverpool West Derby, who like many of us has been in this chamber all | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
afternoon for highlighting the humanitarian challenge in the | :46:23. | :46:24. | |
Democratic Republic of Congo, and the work done by NGOs. Finally, the | :46:25. | :46:33. | |
honourable member for Glasgow North, who highlighted the issue of climate | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
change, and the effect on the Great Lakes region, which is an important | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
aspect that we mustn't forget about. The African Great Lakes region is | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
one, as we all know, it is in this chapter, is one of great | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
significance, not only to stability and Africa, as a continent, but also | :46:54. | :47:01. | |
to the UK through the humanitarian development aid that we can come to | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
be, and also to our future trade and investment. And as we have heard, in | :47:06. | :47:12. | |
both 2015 and 2016, the region witnessed abuses of constitutional | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
powers through the extensions of presidential terms, numerous | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
failures to hold fair and free elections whilst state crackdowns on | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
political opposition and discourse took place. I'd like, as most | :47:24. | :47:31. | |
speakers have, to focus on the Democratic Republic of Congo, and on | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
Burundi, both countries are facing an acute political crossroads. And | :47:35. | :47:41. | |
trouble in the region is no more so apparent than it is in Burundi where | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
the president successfully engineered an illegal third term in | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
office for himself midway through 2015, and has indicated that he will | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
also stand for re-election in 2020, and I'd be interested to hear the | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
Minister's and is on this situation. Since the President's decision to | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
run again, political unrest has led to more than 1000 dead, and 8000 | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
people detained on political grounds, including the leader of the | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
main opposition party, and many high-ranking army officials. | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
Amnesty International have reported that torture has become systematic | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
by the Burundi National intelligence service, it has shown that sequel | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
detention facilities are multiplied and used as torture centres used for | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
extracting information on all those who are believed to oppose the | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
ruling party. Burundi, sadly, took another major step backwards by | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
officially withdrawing from the International Criminal Court in | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
October of last year. This was an unprecedented decision, and could | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
lead to others in the region following suit. And I would ask the | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
Minister what the UK Government has done and can do to persuade them to | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
reconsider. On New Year's Eve, the country | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
awaited news that the environment minister had been assassinated, | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
leading to civil unrest, and I hope the Minister can update house on | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
events following this tragic event -- the country woke. In 2012, the | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
government set out funding for phasing out the bilateral programme | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
of funding to Burundi with no plan or commitment from the government to | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
restart the programme. I would like to ask the Minister if he is aware | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
of any additional funding or assistants that could be used to | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
help the people of Burundi. Moving onto the DRC, which as we have heard | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
is in similar political turmoil, military forces led under President | :49:47. | :49:55. | |
Kabila have led a widespread crackdown on political dissidents, | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
including a media blackout, where he has shutdown media outlets close to | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
the opposition, at least six of which still remain blocked. | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
At least 40 opposition leaders and supporters, and pro-democracy youth | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
activists, remain in detention across Congo. Many have formed rebel | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
groups and factions, dispersing to borders, and insurgency killers have | :50:18. | :50:24. | |
plagued the east of the country. Can I ask the Meesawat additional | :50:25. | :50:27. | |
support we are giving the United Nations organisation mission in DRC | :50:28. | :50:33. | |
to help implement Security Council resolution two to 77 in the region? | :50:34. | :50:41. | |
-- 2000 277. There has been further violence and abuse in the country | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
over the Christmas and New Year period, DRC security Ford has killed | :50:48. | :50:49. | |
40 protesters peacefully and mistreating. | :50:50. | :50:57. | |
As we have seen, the Catholic Church managed to broker a deal between the | :50:58. | :51:03. | |
ruling party and the opposition. That agreement was signed between | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
the political parties on New Year's Eve that President Kabila will step | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
down at the end of 2017, and it's clear that all sides of the House | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
welcome this accord, and hope that President Kabila signs and upholds | :51:18. | :51:19. | |
the agreement of which he has yet to commit to. | :51:20. | :51:26. | |
Sadly yesterday, we did see the first signs of backtracking on this | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
agreement. A group of senior MPs alongside confidants of President | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
Kabila have outspokenly challenged the deal, calling for it to be | :51:36. | :51:38. | |
scrapped, and the signs are beginning to look ominous. Could the | :51:39. | :51:46. | |
Minister outlined to the House that failure to comply to leave the legal | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
office, what changes would materialise between our two | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
countries if this should happen? Would the government look to impose | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
sanctions on the DRC? Given that the Congo is one of our largest aid | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
recipients with projections of ?168 million for the forthcoming 2016-17 | :52:04. | :52:11. | |
year. Also, should he not stand down in | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
the agreed time frame, would the UK Government consider sanctions on his | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
family business, which have benefited from his policy reforms, | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
in particular in mining, energy and the banking industry? All of which | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
have gained heavily from foreign investment into the DRC, including | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
from the UK, US and EU. African Great Lakes is seeing an upsurge in | :52:35. | :52:42. | |
political repression, violence and militia recruitment. Conflict has | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
been on the rise. Much of it can be derived from historical warfare, but | :52:48. | :52:50. | |
the suppression of fair and democratic systems and the upholding | :52:51. | :52:53. | |
of human rights are a grave cause for concern. The world's eyes are | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
currently focused on the devastation of the conflicts in Syria and in | :52:59. | :53:04. | |
Yemen, which we have debated in the chamber, but we must not turn a | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
blind eye to this region, which has seen its own horrors of civil war in | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
the 20th and 21st century, most notably in Rwanda. I am sure love us | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
here in this House will never forget the horrors of the genocide which | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
claimed the lives of around 800,000 people are only 23 years ago. Rwanda | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
is now as an international success, and it has blossomed as an | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
architectural model for rehabilitation and reconciliation. | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
Yet the political situation in all of these regions is fragile, and the | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
honourable members for Bassetlaw and Stafford have highlighted current | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
issues with Rwanda, particularly in relation to democracy. The Great | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
Lakes region will only be stable if all the countries in the region are | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
stable, their politics are integrally linked will stop as we | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
have seen only recently, it was referred to earlier in the debate, | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
the Gambia, through the power of the ballot box, the rule of the strong | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
man in Africa is beginning to break. Although those aware of the | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
situation in the Gambia know that progress is slow, as highlighted by | :54:11. | :54:12. | |
the honourable member for Glasgow North. | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
But like the Honourable member for Stafford, I am hopeful for the | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
region, and hopefully we have a new era upon us, and we must show our | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
strength in support, and ensure that measures can be implemented where we | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
can to support across the African continent and in the Great Lakes | :54:33. | :54:41. | |
region. Thank you very much, Mr Deputy | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
Speaker. It is a pleasure to be was bonding to this debate, and I'm | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
guessing that many of the same characters are here from the | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
previous debate we had this afternoon, I suspect the tone of | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
this debate will be slightly different. It is a pleasure to | :54:56. | :54:58. | |
respond to something which I think there is an awful lot of cross-party | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
agreement. Many of the questions that have come forward today relate | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
to international aid commitments, but I will do my best to answer | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
those. The Honourable member that brought the debate forward, the | :55:13. | :55:15. | |
Honourable member for Bassetlaw, I congratulate him. He asked a series | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
of pertinent questions, and I will endeavour to write to him and two | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
other members if I don't get the opportunity to answer or pay tribute | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
to the work that has been done. But certainly, lots of points have been | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
made, but can I begin by saying that the Great Lakes region has been a | :55:34. | :55:41. | |
troubled region, which faces many challenges, challenges to democracy | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
when those in power seek to hold onto it, and challenges to the | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
livelihoods and human rights from armed groups and repressive | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
governments challenging survival. But it is also a region of great | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
potential. Rwanda, I visited that country a number of times, it has | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
had rapid Veltman since the 1990s, and is a testament to that. -- rapid | :56:08. | :56:13. | |
development. It also shows what can be achieved when the international | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
community work together. The UK is a major partner for that region. That | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
is why it was part of my first visit to the continent, following my | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
appointment in July as the Minister for Africa. The UK is the second | :56:26. | :56:32. | |
largest donor of humanitarian development aid. We continue to play | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
a key role in promoting sustainable peace and stability. The people of | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
the great Lakes region are resilient, and our aim is to work | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
with government and people of the Great Lakes countries to achieve a | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
more peaceful government, and a more democratic and prosperous region. | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
Before going to the details of the main countries, I thought I would | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
respond to some of the points that have been made. | :56:57. | :57:00. | |
We talked about the issue of conflict minerals, I can assure that | :57:01. | :57:07. | |
we take the matter seriously. The Serious Fraud Office is looking into | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
investigations linked with British companies. I can write to him with | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
further details. He touched on also, and the only member to do so, the | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
illegal wildlife trade but also the importance we are placing on this. | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
This is something that the Foreign Secretary is taking seriously. He is | :57:27. | :57:29. | |
working with the Environment Secretary, who attended the illegal | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
wildlife conference in Vietnam in November and have now offered to | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
host the next event in 2018. It is something that the Foreign | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
Secretary's father is engaged in. What has been mentioned is the power | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
that the monarchy play in this. Prince William is a huge driver in | :57:48. | :57:50. | |
raising the professional of this in understanding the work we have done. | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
On a visit I paid to Uganda, I saw the DIFID programmes in place, | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
providing better intelligence to understand the criminal gangs with | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
no regards to the borders themselves but moving the ivory across the | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
borders, looking for the markets, getting through the customs and on | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
to the Far East, where that is the biggest market itself. That is why | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
the hosting of the event in Vietnam was important for them to | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
acknowledge that more needs to be done in that neck of the woods. | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
I think that the honourable member mentioned the Democratic Republic of | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
Congo as well, I had the experience of going across in a small boat | :58:31. | :58:38. | |
across the mighty Congo river from kin Sharona to meet the President | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
there. He is committed to all of the areas of work that we want to do, | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
and taking engagement and invialment in the recognition of the | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
constitutional, or to honour the constitution in the DRC. With 80 | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
million people living in the DRC what happens there can have a | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
spillover effect to Angola, to elsewhere, so it is important to | :59:06. | :59:10. | |
ensure there is stability in that part of Africa. My honourable friend | :59:11. | :59:20. | |
who I have long known is a supporter advocate of South Africa give as | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
powerful speech. He knows my interest is a personal one. We have | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
a connection with my sister, the head teacher of an international | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
school in Kilimanjaro, a connection that we made and became and | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
recognised our interest in Africa itself, the fact he says, that he is | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
positive about the region, given the amount of knowledge he has, gives | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
me, fills me with a sense of promisis, that we are going in the | :59:49. | :59:54. | |
right direction. I pay tribute to Tom Pierello, I have no idea what | :59:55. | :59:58. | |
the American envoy will be doing next because of the changes taking | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
place but certainly I join with him in paying tribute to the Catholic | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
Church and the work that they have done to broker the deal that is so | :00:07. | :00:12. | |
important. Also paying tributes to the people that in Tanzania and | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
Uganda in the work that they have done in looking after the refugees | :00:18. | :00:29. | |
in the region. There was reference made to the refugee crisis and we | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
should not forget while discussing refugee issues in Libya, in the | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
Mediterranean and on the shores of Turkey, Greece, and across Europe, | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
the source of the problems is the instability in the heart of Africa | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
itself. Get the source right and these people will not feel the need | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
to make that terrible journey across Africa to seek a life in Europe | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
itself. The honourable lady for Glasgow north-east, again made a | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
powerful contribution, as she does on these matters, reminding us, less | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
delicately than I would have put it about our historical links to the | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
country but we cannot deny our history, we must recognise the role | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
we have played in this vast Continent but to say also that there | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
is a desire for us to continue our engagement, working with them in a | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
positive way to meet some of the challenges that we face today. The | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
honourable gentlemen for Liverpool, West Derby, talked about the | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
challenges for the DRC, the numbers of people displaced. I pay tribute | :01:38. | :01:44. | |
to the work he is doing on focussing and the work he is helping with on | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
this, on the crisis that is shaping the conflict. But also he touched on | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
something important, yet not apparent but there is vast | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
criminality in the east of the Democratic Republic of Congo, and | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
extremism has yet to set foot in there, yet that is where it could go | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
to next in the same way we have seen Boko Haram in Nigeria, to take | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
advantage of the absence of Government, al-Shabab taking | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
advantage of the absence of governments in the southern neck of | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
Somalia as well, that is why it is important to get it right in the | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
east of the DRC too. The honourable member for Glasgow north, again | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
making important point that the many millions of people affected by | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
conflict are those who have not caused it at all and are in a | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
limited position to influence what is going on, yet they receive the | :02:40. | :02:46. | |
harm from it. These are man-made conflicts and problems, therefore | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
they should be solvable. He #20u67ed on the issues of climate change. The | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
only member to do so, we should not forget that the climate change is | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
affecting the abilities to grow craps, if it is too hot to do so, | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
those people will then have to move and there is a consequence of | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
geographical migration because of what is happening on the ground. He | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
asked for commitment, and I absolutely stand by this, I would | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
hate to see any government of any hue challenge our commitments to | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
0.7% international aid. It allows us to stand up with authority at the | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
United Nations to be able to call from other countries to act and | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
follow us because we are able to provide that commitment itself. I | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
hope all parties will continue in that vain. The more we make noises | :03:37. | :03:44. | |
about it, nobody at the Treasury can sneak this through on the quiet as | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
we are all in agreement. And turning to the honourable member for Hayward | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
and middle tonne, to honour the constitutions across Africa and that | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
failure, this is something that we all must work. As the mother of all | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
Parliaments, this is a country that supports the idea of democracy. The | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
programmes we are doing with the 0.7%, it must not just be about | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
infrastructure, or about working with NGOs in the groups that need | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
support, that is important but it is about improving the governance of | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
the decision making and the democratic proses, so that when they | :04:27. | :04:33. | |
turn ends they stand down. There is nothing to stop Kabila standing | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
again in five years' time. But not to continue or tweet the | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
constitution or play around with it, that is something we don't want to | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
see. We have spoke been the role of the ICCC, there is an issue with a | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
number of African countries chosing to step away in order to protect | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
those up for charge. It is something that we are working with our | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
colleagues in the ICC to prevent this happening any further. Turning | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
to the countries themselves in more detail and the time that is left. | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
The Democratic Republic of Congo itself, President Kabila's mandate | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
ended on the 19th of December. No elections have taken place. Yet he | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
is still in power. I made this point when visiting in last year, the UK | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
was deeply disappointed that elections did not take place in | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
2016. What happened is that the opposition also didn't want | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
elections to take place as the Electoral Commission had not | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
upgraded the electoral role so many new 18-year-olds would not be on the | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
roll so there was a disjoint between where to go, who should be in | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
charge? That new roll is being mapped out. It requires a consensus, | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
sorry a sensus to be done, so we are moving forward. The unexpected good | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
news came on the 31st of December. After talks that honourable members | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
had reached a deal between the opposition and the Government as | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
well. I join others in paying tribute to | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
the work that they have done. There may be a demand for them to move in | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
other parts of Africa as well. They have achieved what few thought | :06:21. | :06:27. | |
impossible, a deal which, if imply meanted will include the Democratic | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
Republic of Congo's first movement of power. And I hope to visit the | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
country to underline Britain's commitment and enforce the point | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
that process must continue. So, assurances that Kabila will step | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
down and the elections will be held by the end of this year. Secondly, | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
the current Prime Minister must be replaced by someone from the | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
opposition majority. Armed groups in the eastern DRC as has been | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
mentioned are causing problems from a security situation in the east. We | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
have to ensure we work with the United Nations to ensure that | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
commitment to ensure that the stability in the east continues. I | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
give way to the honourable gentlemen. | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
About the situation regarding minerals, there is a failure to | :07:19. | :07:26. | |
resolve the violence, UNESCO is appearing to be failing here. | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
I raise the point as to what more we can do. Half of the problem is | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
access to the areas. The roads are poor. A road that we expect to take | :07:38. | :07:45. | |
20 minutes to go from one community to another takes seven to eight | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
hours, perfect for criminals, ininsurgents, and for the | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
instability we are seeing. I suggested to the Deputy Head of the | :07:56. | :08:03. | |
area, that there would be more effort on improving the | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
infrastructure to allow the security forces to get deeper into the areas | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
to provide the security that we need. It looks like I have one | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
minute left. I will say that I have made the comments on the other | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
countries but I will write to the honourable gentlemen and ladies to | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
clarify where we stand and to underline our commitment. But to go | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
back to the beginning and say thank you to the honourable gentlemen from | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
Basset Law and the backbench committee for allowing the debate to | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
take place. We share the concerns about the continuing violence, | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
oppression across the various parts of the Great Lakes and its regions. | :08:49. | :08:57. | |
They want and deserve peace and democracy and hope for the future. | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
We will continue to work hard with the regional governments to make | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
these aspirations a reality. Can I thank the minister for his response | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
and for his kind offer to write to honourable members present to pick | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
up a myriad of detailed issues that have been raised which clearly | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
no-one could possibly answer all within a time limit. This is | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
appreciated and will be helpful. Mr Deputy Speaker, inspired by your | :09:33. | :09:41. | |
firm but fair moving on of the last debate will allow us to have this | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
debate, this has been a most excellent debate. Hardly surprising | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
looking at the experience of those around the back benchers who is | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
participated and frontbenchers as well, that is not a surprise but it | :09:56. | :10:04. | |
has been of a superb quality, managing to cover in important | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
detail and knowledge of the seven different countries in such a short | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
period of time. It respects perhaps shows the scale of the issues and | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
the scale of the opportunities. I hope that the minister will be | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
taking away, in particular from the debate, the fact that we have a huge | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
amount of leverage there. Are different kinds of leverage that we | :10:26. | :10:34. | |
have. Someone who leaves office in disgrace, forced out with a fortune | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
in Swiss franks has been paid by somebody, that somebody, certainly, | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
some of them will be British, and therefore the more we have | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
transparency the more we can add to the leverage but there are many | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
other leverages, not least from the excellent government departments and | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
he has in that region, in my estimation excellent civil servants | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
as does DIFID. Therefore, we stand with a competitive advantage in | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
using our leverage if we use it wisely. I trust he takes from the | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
debate the importance that the House gives to using that leverage. And I | :11:17. | :11:30. | |
share with the friend, from Stafford and my honourable friend from | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
Lancashire, or the other side of the border... Order! | :11:36. | :12:42. | |
Subtitles will resume on 'Thursday In Parliament' at 2300. | :12:43. | :12:53. |