14/03/2016 House of Lords


14/03/2016

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Surely the real answer, rather than just having these sort of false

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states where people certainly get renewed, is to build more housing so

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that the very people at the moment of those on the waiting list can

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come off the waiting list into social housing. It's actually both.

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It's to build more housing and it also to check it and review

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intervals, whether the housing that is being provided for say a family,

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continues to be that need or perhaps they need something else. But that's

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the purpose of it, to just... Perhaps the honourable lady can

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assure me here that no family with children of the age where they go to

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local schools would ever be asked to leave a council house or council

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home under one of these secured tendencies. Can to give assurance to

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the House? What I can do, the Gardens will make it absolutely

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clear on children of school age, but come on my lords, if a family had

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six children and five of those children left home and there was

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one, think of every permutation and commendation of family

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circumstances, but if of those six children five had left home, there

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was only one child left at home then there might be a conversation there

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where the family perhaps downsize, within the local area, but the

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continuation of the child's education would be paramount. When

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is this guide is to be produced? That's a very good question, my

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lords. Due to the timeline of guidance I'm a it will all be good

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for us by the end of this week. Reassured by some of what she said

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there, but actually I do think we need to see this guidance to test

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the government on this, because I think for many terms this is a

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deeply worrying set of provisions. The interaction between family life

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and secure tendencies and people's aspirations when they live in a

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local community is very intense. I think it's creating a sense of

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insecurity on many of our counsel states. There's a disincentive to

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people to invest in their homes, which they do. To not only look

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after their homes, but improve their homes. If you are not sure of being

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able to stay on, as you see your child getting to be point where he

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or she is going to leave school or whatever, or if you're just a couple

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living in a house, isn't that likely to result in a decline in the

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investment that people make in the homes was that it does huge credit

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to many tenants now. My lords, I've seen many different types of social

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housing, some which is incredibly well looked after, others which is

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not so well looked after at all. It does, living somewhere for a long

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time, does provide incentives, but my lords, will some of the biggest

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incentives and I will feel a boo going across this House, is when

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someone buys their homes. I can tell that someone has bought their home

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because those houses are you back to it. They may be immaculate for five

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years, or seven years, and then when you go back you can see the houses

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that weren't bored by people as the tenets which were then sold on. So

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you got two stages and I can assure the honourable lady that in many

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estates, the buy to let our running down of property is actually,

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infuriated council tenants who didn't buy and also those who did

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and stayed. I believe that people who bought their own pop homes -- on

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Homestake a great pride. But we should agree to differ. Not a

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progression for personal view. We know that over 40% of council

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housing that was sold under Right to Buy has been cycled into buy to let.

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We know that the. In some places... The point I was making is that I can

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tell a house that has been bought because, generally, they are in very

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good condition. I'm not starting to make the argument about how this

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that have and so on through tertiary or subsequent sales to write to buy.

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I'm talking about, I was just making a comment to the noble lord about

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people taking pride in the House. Sorry to restrict the Noble Lady,

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but I just don't want to diverge it into that point. The Minister said

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before them are applied to intervention, that the reduced usage

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of rooms would be in consideration on review. In other words, if

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someone left then the local authority that about one of the

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consideration to the local authority have in that review? Is he just

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reducing rooms? My lords, we will be coming to that. If the noble lord

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will bear with me. I do have some news that the noble lord will take,

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that is the guidance for publishing in time of the commencement of the

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provisions. LAUGHTER That is absolutely idiotic. The

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guidance will be published at the time which the legislation is in.

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That the Noble Baroness really mean that? Surely, we've got to see that

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guidance before it's implemented. Well, my lords we will see the

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guidance before it's implemented, but I'm just saying that it will be

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published. It will be published in time. I'm grateful the noble lord,

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grateful. My lords, I don't believe that providing social housing on a

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long-term basis to households that make on the experience temporary

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need is a good use of scarce social housing. I don't think it's right to

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lead to strong and conducive communities. I'm not going to give

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way. If the Noble Lady wants to come back later, she can. After I

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finished. But, my lords, the Noble Lady, lady hollies, talked about

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protecting the rights of those in most need. Local authorities will be

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able to find the appropriate level of stability to those with longer

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term needs, such as the disabled and older people through the granting of

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further social tendencies, whether in the same or in a different more

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suitable social home. My lords, I've outlined, or had the provisions in

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the bill to restore a sense of fairness to social housing, ensuring

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that is properly focused on those who really need it. If I could now

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turn to the amendment tabled by Noble Lords, Kennedy and Beauchamp,

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my Lords amendments, 82 GAE seeks a public feud but about restricting

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lifetimes tendencies on rough sleeping. In each local authority

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area. I would like to thank the Noble Lords for the amendment and

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for raising the issue of homelessness. I agree with them that

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it is important that the government of all he can to reduce the number

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of homeless households. The government has always been clear

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that we are committed to supporting the most vulnerable people in our

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society and one person without a home is one too many. That is why

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we've increased both central and local government funding, maintained

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and increased it over the next four years. However, while I sympathise

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with the intention behind the amendment, I believe it may be

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unnecessary because local housing authorities already recorded review

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of the incidences of homelessness and rough sleeping and must produce

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a homelessness strategy... I don't think we've got to these yet, have

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we? Could be Noble Lord Reagan amendment? I think is a type of.

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We're in the wrong Clause. I'm yet again speaking to amendments that we

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haven't got to. Sought, I shall... Before the Minister sits down.

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Sorry, carry on. Amendment 62 GAE is in this group. It's correct. OK.

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Would the Noble Lords like to discuss it or should we discuss

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it... Would Noble Lords like to draw it? Be really clear about what she

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said about guidelines. So, if this is about regulations and it's about

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guidelines of. I'm now looking at the policy fact sheet which the

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department has published, and that makes it clear that there are going

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to be a single set of regulations for these measures. That is the

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facing out of lifetime tendencies. But the regulations will be subject

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to be an affirmative procedure, not the negative procedure. Minister's

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confirmation of that fact, it then says that the regulations will be

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developed in discussions with local authorities and he regulations and

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provisions of the bill will come into force early next year. That,

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therefore, is early 2017. It is, therefore, easy to share the

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guidelines that are going to be written because they do Mac there is

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from now approximately ten months for those two have been shared. Just

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to help colleagues. This amendment 92, GAE. We will speak on it

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tonight. My lords, it was grouped with 82 and... Well, it will be

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helpful if the House were advised earlier than at this stage of the

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evening, because the noble lord much done that must have had a chance to

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do group it earlier. This has never been in a previous thing. Will the

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Noble Lady started to speak to him and we asked what is this because

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obviously we had to amendments which squarely go together. Course, we are

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now seeing the paper. It clearly is a mistake and I really apologise to

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be Noble Lord. If you might have waited all this time. I was trying

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to say to My Noble friend that I come into the chamber, I wish to

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intervene, guiltily, but we have patiently gone through six days in

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this committee. We have had many opportunities to look at groupings.

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I think it is a courtesy to the House is Noble Lords who have a

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problem with the groupings, which are published and they are out

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there, and we picked them all out, make clear before that they are not

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happy with the groupings. Otherwise, I think the House is entitled to

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expect that those things grouped together will be discussed together.

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It is due to be debated tonight. WHISPERING Excuse me a second, my

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lords. I've actually got a paper from Thursday. It is a typo. This is

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the sheet on Thursday, it's got the two amendments down and My Noble

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friend's name. And they appear today. I don't produce the

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government's sheet for debates, but it was on a Thursday which we signed

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up to, as Mike to Noble Friends to remember. Nothing else. Would Noble

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Lords like to hear it tonight? Or Thursday? I'm not going to waste

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anymore time on this then, and if I could just finish my comments where

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I should have finished them. And just say to the noble lord,

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obviously I have guidelines, guidance, when I have it, I am very

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happy to share it with them. What I'm trying to get at is that if the

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regulations have to come to your lordships House under the

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affirmative procedure, my she explained the guidelines at that

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point? Rather than keeping them from separate from the regulations. I

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would like to do just that, my Lord. Then I will be withdrawing my

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amendments. LAUGHTER I can see that the Noble Baroness is

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troubled and waiting for something to happen, so my lords, I'd be very

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intrigue and what the noble ladies have to say. I've been a little bit

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reassured him abut I sat there thinking about it a bit, and I'm not

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as reassured as I was because back in 1971, when I left home to go to

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university in 1972, that left Mike or mother in her counsel home on her

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own with a spare bedroom. -- Mike or mother. Is ridiculous legislation,

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had he been in place at time, no doubt she would've added visit from

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her local council inviting her to move to yet a smaller accommodation.

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I don't think that is a particularly constructive way to approach things,

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and to I think it would have been in her interest or local communities,

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because she was a bit of a terrier in her place. So, my lords, I think

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this is a seriously deficient piece of legislation which doesn't really

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achieve what we really need to do here. That is to create more social

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housing for people to have access to, rather than spreading but we've

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got more family, but recycling basics. And forcing people out of

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their homes and out of their communities. Which is really the

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point behind my MMF. I shall give you some further thought before we

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get to report states, but I do actually think that the secretary of

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state were to think long and hard about this whole issue of community

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cohesion, but I think it's good that the Noble Lady, the Baroness, is the

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policyholder for that because I can see that it is something that she

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cares passionately about. I think she am along with the Secretary of

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State, needs to reflect on this issue. Having said that, I'm happy

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to withdraw my admin to. Oh, hello. LAUGHTER

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I think the Minister hasn't replied to the question I asked about

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review, which I've now asked twice. I did ask what review meant. What

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considerations will be look forward to? I think he has misread my

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amendment. The review is actually a review that the amendment calls on

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by the Secretary of State, not by the local authority. I have

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withdrawn. Is it your Lordship's pleasure that amendment 82 AAB

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withdrawn? The amendment is withdrawn, the question is that

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Clause 90 state part of the bill. Contrary not content. The content

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have it. It should be debated from a supplementary sheet. And Lord

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Beauchamp, not moved? Not move. In schedule four, amendment 82 BZA,

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Baroness Williams. My lords, at this somewhat late hour and after another

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long day in committee, I am pleased that I can provide a further break

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for the Minister, although it is a technical one and somewhat brief. It

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may not be necessarily time for the ice creams. My lords, this is a

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consequential amendments. Relating to the abolition of the disposals

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proceeds fund. Which is one of the deregulatory measures included in

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the bill. Certain properties developed with public funding

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subject to the statutory right to acquire. This consequential

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amendment maintains that position by defining public funds without

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referencing the disposal proceeds fund. These amendments to schedule

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four will ensure that this is the case. My lords, this is, as I said

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earlier, a technical amendment resulting from the office of

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national statistics concerns about public sector concerned the Mac

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control over housing associations. And those being introduced to

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address those concerns. I beg to move. A minute please. Page 115.

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Question is that this member that about those content? Not content?

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The content have it. The question is that this amendment be agreed to.

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Content? Contrary, not content. The content have it. The question is

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that schedule for, as amended, the in the bill. As many of that opinion

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was that content? Content. Contrary not content? Contents have it. The

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question is that agile five be the fifth schedule to be built. As many

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of that opinion was that content? Content. Oh! As you work, my lords.

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I beg your pardon. The first question is that causes 91-97

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standard part of the bill. Content? Content. Contrary, not content?

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Contents have it. That schedule five be the fifth commitment to bill.

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Content? Not content? The contents have a. The next is that causes

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98-110 stand part of the bill. As many of that opinion that content?

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Content. Contrary, not content? Contents have it. At schedule six B

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the sixth schedule to be built. As many say content. Not content? The

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contents have it. Laws is 111 and 112 stand part of the bill. Content?

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Not content. Because it's habit.

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