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Surely the real answer, rather than just having these sort of false | :00:07. | :00:14. | |
states where people certainly get renewed, is to build more housing so | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
that the very people at the moment of those on the waiting list can | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
come off the waiting list into social housing. It's actually both. | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
It's to build more housing and it also to check it and review | :00:27. | :00:33. | |
intervals, whether the housing that is being provided for say a family, | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
continues to be that need or perhaps they need something else. But that's | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
the purpose of it, to just... Perhaps the honourable lady can | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
assure me here that no family with children of the age where they go to | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
local schools would ever be asked to leave a council house or council | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
home under one of these secured tendencies. Can to give assurance to | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
the House? What I can do, the Gardens will make it absolutely | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
clear on children of school age, but come on my lords, if a family had | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
six children and five of those children left home and there was | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
one, think of every permutation and commendation of family | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
circumstances, but if of those six children five had left home, there | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
was only one child left at home then there might be a conversation there | :01:26. | :01:32. | |
where the family perhaps downsize, within the local area, but the | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
continuation of the child's education would be paramount. When | :01:38. | :01:45. | |
is this guide is to be produced? That's a very good question, my | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
lords. Due to the timeline of guidance I'm a it will all be good | :01:49. | :01:56. | |
for us by the end of this week. Reassured by some of what she said | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
there, but actually I do think we need to see this guidance to test | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
the government on this, because I think for many terms this is a | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
deeply worrying set of provisions. The interaction between family life | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
and secure tendencies and people's aspirations when they live in a | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
local community is very intense. I think it's creating a sense of | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
insecurity on many of our counsel states. There's a disincentive to | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
people to invest in their homes, which they do. To not only look | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
after their homes, but improve their homes. If you are not sure of being | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
able to stay on, as you see your child getting to be point where he | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
or she is going to leave school or whatever, or if you're just a couple | :02:40. | :02:46. | |
living in a house, isn't that likely to result in a decline in the | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
investment that people make in the homes was that it does huge credit | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
to many tenants now. My lords, I've seen many different types of social | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
housing, some which is incredibly well looked after, others which is | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
not so well looked after at all. It does, living somewhere for a long | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
time, does provide incentives, but my lords, will some of the biggest | :03:13. | :03:19. | |
incentives and I will feel a boo going across this House, is when | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
someone buys their homes. I can tell that someone has bought their home | :03:24. | :03:25. | |
because those houses are you back to it. They may be immaculate for five | :03:26. | :03:32. | |
years, or seven years, and then when you go back you can see the houses | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
that weren't bored by people as the tenets which were then sold on. So | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
you got two stages and I can assure the honourable lady that in many | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
estates, the buy to let our running down of property is actually, | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
infuriated council tenants who didn't buy and also those who did | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
and stayed. I believe that people who bought their own pop homes -- on | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
Homestake a great pride. But we should agree to differ. Not a | :04:05. | :04:12. | |
progression for personal view. We know that over 40% of council | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
housing that was sold under Right to Buy has been cycled into buy to let. | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
We know that the. In some places... The point I was making is that I can | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
tell a house that has been bought because, generally, they are in very | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
good condition. I'm not starting to make the argument about how this | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
that have and so on through tertiary or subsequent sales to write to buy. | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
I'm talking about, I was just making a comment to the noble lord about | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
people taking pride in the House. Sorry to restrict the Noble Lady, | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
but I just don't want to diverge it into that point. The Minister said | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
before them are applied to intervention, that the reduced usage | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
of rooms would be in consideration on review. In other words, if | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
someone left then the local authority that about one of the | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
consideration to the local authority have in that review? Is he just | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
reducing rooms? My lords, we will be coming to that. If the noble lord | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
will bear with me. I do have some news that the noble lord will take, | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
that is the guidance for publishing in time of the commencement of the | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
provisions. LAUGHTER That is absolutely idiotic. The | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
guidance will be published at the time which the legislation is in. | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
That the Noble Baroness really mean that? Surely, we've got to see that | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
guidance before it's implemented. Well, my lords we will see the | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
guidance before it's implemented, but I'm just saying that it will be | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
published. It will be published in time. I'm grateful the noble lord, | :06:01. | :06:13. | |
grateful. My lords, I don't believe that providing social housing on a | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
long-term basis to households that make on the experience temporary | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
need is a good use of scarce social housing. I don't think it's right to | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
lead to strong and conducive communities. I'm not going to give | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
way. If the Noble Lady wants to come back later, she can. After I | :06:30. | :06:38. | |
finished. But, my lords, the Noble Lady, lady hollies, talked about | :06:39. | :06:40. | |
protecting the rights of those in most need. Local authorities will be | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
able to find the appropriate level of stability to those with longer | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
term needs, such as the disabled and older people through the granting of | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
further social tendencies, whether in the same or in a different more | :06:55. | :07:01. | |
suitable social home. My lords, I've outlined, or had the provisions in | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
the bill to restore a sense of fairness to social housing, ensuring | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
that is properly focused on those who really need it. If I could now | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
turn to the amendment tabled by Noble Lords, Kennedy and Beauchamp, | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
my Lords amendments, 82 GAE seeks a public feud but about restricting | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
lifetimes tendencies on rough sleeping. In each local authority | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
area. I would like to thank the Noble Lords for the amendment and | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
for raising the issue of homelessness. I agree with them that | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
it is important that the government of all he can to reduce the number | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
of homeless households. The government has always been clear | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
that we are committed to supporting the most vulnerable people in our | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
society and one person without a home is one too many. That is why | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
we've increased both central and local government funding, maintained | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
and increased it over the next four years. However, while I sympathise | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
with the intention behind the amendment, I believe it may be | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
unnecessary because local housing authorities already recorded review | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
of the incidences of homelessness and rough sleeping and must produce | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
a homelessness strategy... I don't think we've got to these yet, have | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
we? Could be Noble Lord Reagan amendment? I think is a type of. | :08:30. | :08:37. | |
We're in the wrong Clause. I'm yet again speaking to amendments that we | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
haven't got to. Sought, I shall... Before the Minister sits down. | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
Sorry, carry on. Amendment 62 GAE is in this group. It's correct. OK. | :08:52. | :09:00. | |
Would the Noble Lords like to discuss it or should we discuss | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
it... Would Noble Lords like to draw it? Be really clear about what she | :09:06. | :09:18. | |
said about guidelines. So, if this is about regulations and it's about | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
guidelines of. I'm now looking at the policy fact sheet which the | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
department has published, and that makes it clear that there are going | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
to be a single set of regulations for these measures. That is the | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
facing out of lifetime tendencies. But the regulations will be subject | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
to be an affirmative procedure, not the negative procedure. Minister's | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
confirmation of that fact, it then says that the regulations will be | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
developed in discussions with local authorities and he regulations and | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
provisions of the bill will come into force early next year. That, | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
therefore, is early 2017. It is, therefore, easy to share the | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
guidelines that are going to be written because they do Mac there is | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
from now approximately ten months for those two have been shared. Just | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
to help colleagues. This amendment 92, GAE. We will speak on it | :10:20. | :10:29. | |
tonight. My lords, it was grouped with 82 and... Well, it will be | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
helpful if the House were advised earlier than at this stage of the | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
evening, because the noble lord much done that must have had a chance to | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
do group it earlier. This has never been in a previous thing. Will the | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
Noble Lady started to speak to him and we asked what is this because | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
obviously we had to amendments which squarely go together. Course, we are | :10:53. | :11:00. | |
now seeing the paper. It clearly is a mistake and I really apologise to | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
be Noble Lord. If you might have waited all this time. I was trying | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
to say to My Noble friend that I come into the chamber, I wish to | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
intervene, guiltily, but we have patiently gone through six days in | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
this committee. We have had many opportunities to look at groupings. | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
I think it is a courtesy to the House is Noble Lords who have a | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
problem with the groupings, which are published and they are out | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
there, and we picked them all out, make clear before that they are not | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
happy with the groupings. Otherwise, I think the House is entitled to | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
expect that those things grouped together will be discussed together. | :11:41. | :11:58. | |
It is due to be debated tonight. WHISPERING Excuse me a second, my | :11:59. | :12:07. | |
lords. I've actually got a paper from Thursday. It is a typo. This is | :12:08. | :12:16. | |
the sheet on Thursday, it's got the two amendments down and My Noble | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
friend's name. And they appear today. I don't produce the | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
government's sheet for debates, but it was on a Thursday which we signed | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
up to, as Mike to Noble Friends to remember. Nothing else. Would Noble | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
Lords like to hear it tonight? Or Thursday? I'm not going to waste | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
anymore time on this then, and if I could just finish my comments where | :12:43. | :12:44. | |
I should have finished them. And just say to the noble lord, | :12:45. | :12:52. | |
obviously I have guidelines, guidance, when I have it, I am very | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
happy to share it with them. What I'm trying to get at is that if the | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
regulations have to come to your lordships House under the | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
affirmative procedure, my she explained the guidelines at that | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
point? Rather than keeping them from separate from the regulations. I | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
would like to do just that, my Lord. Then I will be withdrawing my | :13:12. | :13:21. | |
amendments. LAUGHTER I can see that the Noble Baroness is | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
troubled and waiting for something to happen, so my lords, I'd be very | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
intrigue and what the noble ladies have to say. I've been a little bit | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
reassured him abut I sat there thinking about it a bit, and I'm not | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
as reassured as I was because back in 1971, when I left home to go to | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
university in 1972, that left Mike or mother in her counsel home on her | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
own with a spare bedroom. -- Mike or mother. Is ridiculous legislation, | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
had he been in place at time, no doubt she would've added visit from | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
her local council inviting her to move to yet a smaller accommodation. | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
I don't think that is a particularly constructive way to approach things, | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
and to I think it would have been in her interest or local communities, | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
because she was a bit of a terrier in her place. So, my lords, I think | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
this is a seriously deficient piece of legislation which doesn't really | :14:17. | :14:18. | |
achieve what we really need to do here. That is to create more social | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
housing for people to have access to, rather than spreading but we've | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
got more family, but recycling basics. And forcing people out of | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
their homes and out of their communities. Which is really the | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
point behind my MMF. I shall give you some further thought before we | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
get to report states, but I do actually think that the secretary of | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
state were to think long and hard about this whole issue of community | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
cohesion, but I think it's good that the Noble Lady, the Baroness, is the | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
policyholder for that because I can see that it is something that she | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
cares passionately about. I think she am along with the Secretary of | :14:55. | :14:57. | |
State, needs to reflect on this issue. Having said that, I'm happy | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
to withdraw my admin to. Oh, hello. LAUGHTER | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
I think the Minister hasn't replied to the question I asked about | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
review, which I've now asked twice. I did ask what review meant. What | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
considerations will be look forward to? I think he has misread my | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
amendment. The review is actually a review that the amendment calls on | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
by the Secretary of State, not by the local authority. I have | :15:25. | :15:34. | |
withdrawn. Is it your Lordship's pleasure that amendment 82 AAB | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
withdrawn? The amendment is withdrawn, the question is that | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
Clause 90 state part of the bill. Contrary not content. The content | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
have it. It should be debated from a supplementary sheet. And Lord | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
Beauchamp, not moved? Not move. In schedule four, amendment 82 BZA, | :15:59. | :16:11. | |
Baroness Williams. My lords, at this somewhat late hour and after another | :16:12. | :16:14. | |
long day in committee, I am pleased that I can provide a further break | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
for the Minister, although it is a technical one and somewhat brief. It | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
may not be necessarily time for the ice creams. My lords, this is a | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
consequential amendments. Relating to the abolition of the disposals | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
proceeds fund. Which is one of the deregulatory measures included in | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
the bill. Certain properties developed with public funding | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
subject to the statutory right to acquire. This consequential | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
amendment maintains that position by defining public funds without | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
referencing the disposal proceeds fund. These amendments to schedule | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
four will ensure that this is the case. My lords, this is, as I said | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
earlier, a technical amendment resulting from the office of | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
national statistics concerns about public sector concerned the Mac | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
control over housing associations. And those being introduced to | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
address those concerns. I beg to move. A minute please. Page 115. | :17:10. | :17:18. | |
Question is that this member that about those content? Not content? | :17:19. | :17:30. | |
The content have it. The question is that this amendment be agreed to. | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
Content? Contrary, not content. The content have it. The question is | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
that schedule for, as amended, the in the bill. As many of that opinion | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
was that content? Content. Contrary not content? Contents have it. The | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
question is that agile five be the fifth schedule to be built. As many | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
of that opinion was that content? Content. Oh! As you work, my lords. | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
I beg your pardon. The first question is that causes 91-97 | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
standard part of the bill. Content? Content. Contrary, not content? | :18:10. | :18:17. | |
Contents have it. That schedule five be the fifth commitment to bill. | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
Content? Not content? The contents have a. The next is that causes | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
98-110 stand part of the bill. As many of that opinion that content? | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
Content. Contrary, not content? Contents have it. At schedule six B | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
the sixth schedule to be built. As many say content. Not content? The | :18:37. | :18:44. | |
contents have it. Laws is 111 and 112 stand part of the bill. Content? | :18:45. | :18:46. | |
Not content. Because it's habit. | :18:47. | :18:55. |