26/01/2017 House of Lords


26/01/2017

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That's the end of the day in the House of Commons. We'll now be going

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to the House of Lords. Remember you can watch recorded coverage of all

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of today's business in the Lords after the Daily Politics later

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tonight. Should be on acquiring skills in preparation for return to

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their own countries. We will however need solutions in third countries

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for those who won't go home. A report rightly calls for a global

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plan. Large and developed states will have a vital part to play. For

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example, the United States, Canada, Brazil, with Australia and New

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Zealand. Some cities have been so destroyed that a huge input will be

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needed to make them habitable. I saw this in homes and Aleppo. I welcome

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the new Secretary General said he has served as High Commissioner for

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refugees. I hope Mr Gutierrez agrees with the report on the point of

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redefining who is a refugee. We should perhaps distinguish those

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with individual fears of persecution. There will be other

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people who have fled because of genuine fears. Group violence, war

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or natural disaster. Their plight is real, but different from the more

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personal kind. The report shows that UN peacekeeping cost over $8 billion

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a year employing 86,000 troops and a total personnel of almost 120,000.

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We can all agree it must be possible to get better results from such

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massive resources. Sexual abuse and exploitation by so-called

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peacekeepers has been a long-running scandal. This cries out for

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reflective reform. Given that protecting women and children should

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be top priority for peacekeepers. I have two questions for the

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government. Will they make the case for enhancing the use of the UN

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Secretary General's good offices, which have been mentioned already?

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In particular in order to prevent conflicts. Will they insist on

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Article 99 powers for preventing wars, genocide and refugee flows.

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I ask, what relations does the Secretary General have with groups

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like The Hammers, and the free Canton is of northern Syria. They

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are all, I believe, too important to be ignored. My Lords, I trust that

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leaving the EU will not absorb all our energies. We must, surely, try

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to help the UN to perform more effectively than ever before.

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My lords, like others I wish Lord Hall well and I congratulate Lord

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Jopling on his introduction to this debate. I want to talk about

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relations with the US and with the European Union of 27, of course,

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after our departure. Relationship with the US will be tested tomorrow,

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when the Prime Minister and others have said meat President Trump. She

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will no doubt talk to him about a possible US-UK trade deal. On which

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we can expect the Americans, like the Indians, like the Australians

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and like others, to negotiate as toughly in their own interests as we

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shall I hope in hours. The Prime Minister will also be able to say

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that we share the US's view on the need to counter international

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terrorism, and will want to continue to work together with them to do

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that. Including by sharing intelligence. But I hope she will

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also say that we do not countenance torture, which includes water

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boarding, that we are not in favour of closing our borders to those who

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are fleeing conflict and repression in the Middle East and elsewhere.

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And I agree with my Noble Friend. And that we believe that the UN will

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continue to have a key role to play in an uncertain world. I hope the

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Prime Minister will also seek to convince President Trump that the

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continued coherence and indeed strengthening of Nato is in Western

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interests, and that as she has promised, the promotion and

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protection of Western values needs a strong European Union, albeit

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without Britain, and that the break-up of the European Union and a

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retreat into a world of protectionist nation states is not

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in any one's interest. And it follows from that that Britain's own

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interest lies, it seems to me, in a continuing close relationship with

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the European Union, even after we have left. We shall not be members

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of the European Union. We shall not be members of the Common foreign and

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security policy. And we will not be present when EU heads of state and

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government meet to discuss the crisis of the day. But it is surely

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in our interest, as much as in the interest of the EU themselves, that

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we continue to work closely with them. And in particular,

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bilaterally, with France, on, for example, the approach to and

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sanctions on Russia on the Middle East and North Africa. My lords,

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none of that will be easy. The conduct of foreign policy seldom is.

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But I hope the BRIAN NOBLE:, the minister, will be

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able to confirm that it will be in a clear sense of our own national

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interest that will determine how a relation with others, including the

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US and the European Union. My lords, I welcome this report and I welcome

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the work of the new committee. I welcome the UK's commitment to the

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preservation and strengthening of the liberal global order, to the UN

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and the international suggestions of the UN family and the extensive

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framework of international law included in the global human rights

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regime. International law, international courts and

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institutions, of course, constrain national sovereignty. Successive UK

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governments accepted that trade-off, that treaties and international

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norms share sovereignty and build an open international order. Now it

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appears we have a US administration that rejects many of these

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constraints on global order, global institutions and international law.

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That puts Britain in opposition to the current thrust of US foreign

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policy, and I very much hope he is we all do, that the Prime Minister

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will be robust in warning President Trump of the dangers of his

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approach. But while British unselect support a global institutions, they

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reject the constraints of the strongest and most effective

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regional order. They are in favour of global human rights but

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passionately reject the invasion of British sovereignty by the European

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gym and rights regime. There are uncomfortable parallels with what

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drives the trump regime and the British antagonism towards the EU.

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The potentially negative impact of Brexit on Britain's impact in the

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UN, and the Commonwealth as a potential alternative framework. It

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has been a valuable asset to British local influence. We are now

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abandoning that dramatic framework. Since we are also debating the UK's

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international relations in the light of Brexit, I have looked for a

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declaration of British foreign policy by senior ministers in recent

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months. There has been remarkably little, beyond empty repetitions,

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that by becoming a much less European Britain, we will somehow

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become more global. It's a bit like saying that Brexit means Brexit.

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Boris Johnson's Chatham House speech on the 2nd of December, however,

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promised that this was, I quote, the first in a series of speeches

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setting out our foreign policy strategy. It wasn't very strategic.

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He spent more time discussing the fate of the African elephant down

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the future pattern of corporation on international issues with our

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European neighbours. And more time on the residence of Harry Potter

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novels on children in South Asia. There was much discussion of British

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involvement in Afghanistan over the past 200 years but no reference to

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the central to you of British foreign policy, since, before the

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English estate became the United Kingdom, on relations with France,

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the Netherlands, Spain and Scandinavia. The most he would say

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was that Britain would be a flying buttress to the European church,

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whatever that may mean, and I suspect he does not know himself.

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But he did repeat the old Tony Blair line, that Britain, and I quote, is

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a breach between Europe and America, and that we are at the centre of a

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network of relationships and alliances that span the world, in

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which, I quote, people in the world are looking for a lead from Britain.

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Well, he wrote a book on Winston Churchill. It got mixed reviews, and

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he should know that Churchill's concept of the UK at the centre of a

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network of relationships depended on our retaining a key role in the

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European circle, as well as on a transatlantic relationship and in

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what Churchill called the British Commonwealth and Empire. Cut the

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European dimension out of Churchill's three cycles concept,

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and our position in the world is sharply diminished. The only

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substantial speech by Mr Johnson that I can find since then was given

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at a conference in Delhi on the 21st of January. He made no mention in it

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of the Commonwealth, in the capital of what has been the jewel in the

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crown of the British Empire, probably because he had been told by

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his staff that the Indian government is not enthusiastic about returning

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to a subordinate role in a British-led network. There was much

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in the speech on Scotch whisky exports, about the pesky terrorists,

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he said, that India imposes to limit whiskey exports, and how

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nevertheless, Britain and the UK stand together in their commitment

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to free trade. Pesky is a term that I last came across when I was a boy

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in comics. It is interesting the language of Foreign Secretary still

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uses. He went on to say, we have just decided to restore our military

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presence east of Suez with a ?3 billion commitment over ten years

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for a naval support facility in Bahrain. We have a commitment to the

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whole world, and as our naval strength increases in the next ten

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years, the Noble Lord Lord West will be very glad, including two new

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aircraft carriers, we will be able to make a bigger contribution. In

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the Indian Ocean, we have a joint UK-US facility on Diego Garcia which

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is vital for our operations in the region. It is exactly 50 years since

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Harold Wilson PHIL JONES: Governance announced the

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withdrawal from Cillilers on the grounds that it no longer made any

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sense to continue to defend and Empire now that it had been given

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its freedom. Boris Johnson is too young to remember that. He was only

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three at the time. We mean tamed athlete at that time which included

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between 35-40 frigates against the 16 we have now, as well as bases in

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Aden and Singapore. The Foreign Secretary claimed that Diego Garcia

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is a vital UK, as well as US facility. Perhaps the minister can

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remind us how much we have in the way of UK military personnel there.

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The last time I was told, I think it was two, perhaps it is now four, and

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whether or not there are any British military assets based in Diego

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Garcia. This image of the world is not about taking back control, it's

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about taking Britain back to the 1960s, boys' comics included. And

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now we have thepm going to the USA to tell President Trump, according

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to the media this morning, that together we can leave the world,

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phrase straight out of Daniel Hannan's book on how the

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Anglo-Saxons invented freedom and the modern world. Is Theresa May

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going to attempt the same subordinate relationship with Donald

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Trump that Tony Blair pursued with George W Bush? Does she share the

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same illusion that Anglo-Saxon Americans love Britain above all

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others, and that clinging to American coat-tails gives us global

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status superior to the international roles of Germany and France?

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Independent from Europe, pendant on the United States? Commitment to a

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liberal international order but dependent on a Republican

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administration which is against many of the assumptions of that

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international order? That's not a coherent strategy for a post-Brexit

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foreign policy. My Lords, I want to thank all Noble Lords who are

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members of the committee for an excellent report. And I want to

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thank Lord Howe for initiating this debate, and also to pass on my own

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best wishes for a speedy recovery. In one of our earlier debates on

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this subject, my Lords, the noble lady the Baroness Goldie, in

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acknowledging that we face significant challenges to peace and

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stability ahead, asserted that they are not ones brought about by the

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UK's decision to leave the EU, and that they will not be exacerbated by

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our leaving. Well, my Lords, I think that is the crux of today's debate.

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And it has been highlighted by all Noble Lords. The question is, how

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will a call deliver on that assertion? Man-made and natural

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humanitarian crises, poverty and climate change, can only be met by

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international co-operation. And the report highlights the year 2015, the

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international community, facing up to its responsibilities by reaching

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agreements like the disaster risk reduction, the financing for

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development, the Agenda 2030 and of course, the Paris climate change

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record. The report acknowledged that the watchword for the UN and the new

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Secretary-General will be implementation of these agreements.

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And Paul Williams from the finance, wealth office said they would be key

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to maintaining credibility in the UN itself among other places. Of

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course, the challenge to in fermentation, as we have heard in

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the debate, are both political and economic, and not least, as all

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noble Lords have said, is our future relationship with the US and its new

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president. The Prime Minister will remind President Trump tomorrow that

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the United Kingdom is by instinct and history a great global nation

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that recognises its responsibilities to the world. Downing Street sources

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say Theresa May prefers a grown-up relationship with the new president,

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rather than by remaining aloof. The benefits of a close, effective

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relationship is, we will be able to raise differences directly and

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frankly with the president. Well, my Lords, clearly, this week, we have

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seen in a little more detail what those differences may look like.

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