Browse content similar to 14/06/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight pl, Cameron at Leveson, how the Chipping Norton set and their | :00:17. | :00:26. | |
colleagues didn't do. And Rebekah Brooks and the text. I'm rooting | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
for you, not just personally, but professionally we are in this | :00:30. | :00:38. | |
together, and there was an exclammation mark and "yes he Cam". | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
My guests are here, what damage has this done to David Cameron. | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
While the Newsnight political panel analyse the fall-out from this | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
week's parade the leaders on the stand. Hundreds of witnesses, reems | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
of document, millions of pounds, ten months duration, and counting, | :00:55. | :01:02. | |
will there be any lasting heritage from Leveson. | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
My guests join me. Also tonight, will the Government | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
and the Bank of England's roll of the dice to boost the UK economy | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
actually work. And Paul Mason looks at the desperation putting Greece | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
into the arms of the far left Syriza Party. | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
When a party of Marxists, radical greens and feminists, is getting | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
votes from farmers three hours into the mountains of Athens, something | :01:28. | :01:37. | |
is going on. Good evening t may be a piece of | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
correspondence that he regrets ever receiving, because contained in | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
just 84 words are a set of phrases and connection that is could be | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
seen as defining David Cameron's time as Prime Minister. It was, by | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
default, the centre piece of his five-hour appearance in front of | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
Lord Leveson. You can bet your bottom dollar, that when Mr Cameron | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
set up the inquiry, he had no idea this short text would ping into the | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
public domain. Previously in court 73. | :02:03. | :02:13. | |
We have had Rebekah Brooks. "LOL", lots of love. Murdoch mur. We had | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
no alternative, but to make war on your company. Gordon Brown? This | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
conversation never took place. Nick Clegg? I was at the end of the | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
table where the children sit. the executive producer, the man who | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
gave us this show, made his own appearance. It is on our screens | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
now. It is not often you get to see a serving Prime Minister taking the | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
oath in court. This week pl, Cameron's predecessor as Prime | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
Minister sat in the same chair and abused him of doing a deal with | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
Rupert Murdoch. Of course, I wanted to win over newspapers, and other | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
journalist, editors, proprietors, and I worked very hard at that, | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
because I wanted to communicate what the Conservative Party and the | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
leadership could do for the country. I made that argument. I didn't do | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
it on the basis of saying, either overtly or covertly, saying that | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
your support will mean I will give awe better time on this or that | :03:11. | :03:17. | |
policy. Of course the Sun did give the Conservatives its endorsement | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
in December of 2009, Labour's lost it" of the headline. If gave the | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
Conservatives massive boost going into their conference this week. A | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
conference where they introduced the world to this slogan. We are | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
all in this together. From the day after that speech, the inquiry saw | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
evidence of the close relationship between David Cameron and Rebekah | :03:36. | :03:42. | |
Brooks. It was taex that Mrs Brookes sent to Mr Cameron, it was | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
the eve of his big conference speech. The text talk about meeting | :03:44. | :03:54. | |
for a meal. It seemed Mrs Cameron had dep but | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
advertised for her husband attending a News International | :03:57. | :04:07. | |
:04:07. | :04:22. | ||
The phrase, "but because professionally we're definitely in | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
this together ". What was your understanding of that? I think that | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
is about the Sun had made this decision to back the Conservatives, | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
to part company with Labour, and so the Sun wanted to make sure it was | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
helping the Conservative Party put its best foot forward, with the | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
policies we were announcing, the speech I was going to make and all | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
the rest of it. I think that is what that means. | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
So the adverb "professionally", is covering the fact that the Sun and | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
you were bound together, to some extent. I think what it means as | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
she put it, we are friends, but professionally, me as leader of the | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
Conservative Party, her in newspapers, we were going to be | :05:03. | :05:13. | |
:05:13. | :05:14. | ||
pushing the same political agenda. And the "country supper" she refers | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
to. Sort of in a forward-looking way, is that the sort of | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
interaction you often had with her? Yes, we are neighbours. | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
Mr Cameron was also asked about his decision to hire Andy Coulson as | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
Downing Street's Director of Communications. It wasn't, he told | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
the inquiry, principally to forge closer links with News | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
International. If what lies behind the question, | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
were you after a News International executive, because this is going to | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
make it easier to win over the News of the World, or whatever, no, that | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
wasn't the calculation. Mr Cameron was also quizzed at length about | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
his decision to give the job of deciding the BSkyB bid to the | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
Culture Secretary, Jeremy Hunt. Despite the fact that Mr Hunt had | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
already made his views clear, that he supported BSkyB being taken over | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
by News Corp. The decision had to be made in something of a hurry. | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
Vince Cable did have the job, but he was secretly recorded saying he | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
had declared war on Rupert Murdoch. As Culture Secretary, Jeremy Hunt | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
would have been the natural person to take on the role. But he was | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
known as a Murdoch supporter. The Government's top lawyer, Simon | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
Jenkins, was on leave at the time. He -- Paul Jenkins, was on leave at | :06:33. | :06:43. | |
:06:43. | :06:50. | ||
the time, he gave his opinion over However, it turns out, that when Mr | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
Jenkins cleared Jeremy Hunt to decide the bid, he hadn't been told | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
about a rather chummy text message, that Jeremy Hunt had sent to James | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
Murdoch in support of the bid. "congratulations on Brussels, just | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
Ofcom to go", it said. Nor was he told about a note he had written to | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
the Prime Minister, warning that if they block it, the bid, the media | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
sector, will suffer for years. contention is what is in the | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
private note is not really different to what he said publicly | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
indeed what he said publicly is more effusive. I think it is note- | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
worthy that we have now got this witness statement from Paul Jenkins, | :07:27. | :07:34. | |
the Government lawyer, who says very clearly "skap I'm quite clear | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
that my advice to Sir Gus would have been any different had I seen | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
the note at the time ". I accept there is proves, but the backing | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
two of permanent secretaries and lawyer is quite a strong state of | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
affairs. Although Mr Cameron commissioned | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
this blockbuster series, doesn't get to write the script. Today was | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
embarrassing, perhaps rather than explosives. Even so, the | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
cliffhanger we have been left with, how much, if any, damage has been | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
done. To talk about the Prime Minister's | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
appearance today, with me are the Conservative Deputy Chairman, | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
Michael Fallon, and Tom Watson, the Labour member of the culture select | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
committee. Fallon, first of all, the phrase -- Michael Fallon, first | :08:17. | :08:24. | |
of all, the phrase from Rebekah Brooks's text "we're all in this | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
together", that was made and we thought it was for us, but it was, | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
the Prime Minister, David Cameron, and the Chipping Norton set? | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
made that point, we were all in this together, and they were. When | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
they decided to back the Conservative Party, the leader of | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
the party and the editor of the newspaper were in in together. | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
the Chipping Norton set were in it with News International, is the | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
point we make. What is a country supper? I don't know, if it is an | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
embarrassment this text, it is to Rebekah Brooks, she sent it, not | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
David Cameron. Obviously he and she knows what a country supper is, | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
whether you do or not, this is an intimate gathering? They live quite | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
close to each other. Her husband has been a friend of David | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
Cameron's for 20-30 years, they see each other at weekends. That | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
doesn't prove anything. Is it outlandish to say she had a hand in | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
the speech that came the next day? Yes t the paper had only just | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
decided to put its weight behind the Conservatives. It is | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
uncomfortable? For her. It is also for David Cameron? Why, he had been | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
trying to win over the support of the newspapers, he has been trying | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
to win over the support of all the other newspapers. That is why we | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
chose him as leader, it is his job. It wasn't friendship, it was one- | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
sided friendship, it was not a two- way street, it was Rebekah Brooks | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
courting David Cameron she was a friend of her husband's foreyears, | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
and there is no mystery about. That he was on the stand for five hours | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
today. He answered every single question, if this text is all you | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
can come up with, I don't think that is sufficient evidence of some | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
conspiracy. The point s the text, as embarrassing as it is, it might | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
be uncomfortable, but, in fact, there was no smoking gun, no | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
problem about the News International bid for BSkyB. We | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
heard today it had actually followed what should have happened, | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
Cable was then followed by Jeremy Hunt, there was no problem. Michael | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
is right on, that the text was deeply embarrassing, and showed the | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
closeness of the relationship. Where I was more disappointed today | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
was the fact that David Cameron seemed lukewarm on the process. And | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
wasn't prepared sketch out his ideas about what reform would look | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
like. My fear for in the last few weeks, is that the coalition are | :10:47. | :10:53. | |
beginning to go cold on Leveson. I think he really owes the Dowler | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
family and the country a greater explanation about what he intends | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
do when Leveson reports. It will be interesting because Lawrence | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
Leveson will not be keen to hear. That your suggestion will be that | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
nothing much will come out of it, simply because David Cameron didn't | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
show his colours today? You know I think everyone now knows they were | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
very close. We just saw mores conversation of that today. More | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
woreing -- more confirmation that have today. More worryingly, we are | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
seeing PR people saying unless Leveson deals with this over the | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
Internet it will be flawed. This strikes me as the beginnings of the | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
Government to go kopbld it and put it into the long -- cold on this, | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
and put it into the long grass. That would be a betrayal. He missed | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
the opportunity to restate the case for Leveson. Looking at one of the | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
other major topics of conversation today on Andy Coulson. Don't you | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
and other Conservative MPs feel kind of let down by David Cameron | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
over this. Now we know he wanted to get to the part of the country he | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
couldn't really get to. That is why he hired Coulson. There were four | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
other candidates. This was not only a mistake, it was an error of | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
judgment? With hindsight all these things look easier. At the time he | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
sought assurances from Andy Coulson, he got assurances from Andy Coulson. | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
The same ashourpbss were given to parliament. They were given to -- | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
assurances were given to parliament. They were goifrpb a court of law. | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
If it turns out those -- given to a court of law. If it turns out those | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
assurances were false, that was down to Andy Coulson. It was | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
incredibly regretable that when you wanted to get on and bring on | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
policies, the Coulson affair was hijacking what you were promoting? | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
That is correct. That is why we have gone forward with the inquiry | :12:39. | :12:45. | |
to find a better way forward for these issues. What was striking by | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
the Prime Minister's evidence today is he finished talking about the | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
Dowler case. To show this isn't just about celebrities and people | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
who can afford lawyers, but we need a situation where we have a system | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
that provides redress to families like the Dowlers and others. Even | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
the almost always patient Lord Leveson said last month he was | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
ready to go back to productive judicial work. His phrase. That may | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
be some way off. There are still many more witnesss to hear from. | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
And then the judge has to think deep thoughts. | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
Since David Cameron established the Leveson Inquiry last July, it has | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
already cost more than �2 million. There have been over 300 witnesses | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
in the hot seat, and the publication of 500 pieces of | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
evidence, since the father and mother of murdered schoolgirl, | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
Milly Dowler gave evidence in front of Lord Leveson in November. | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
felt like such an intrusion into a really, really private grief moment. | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
They include three former prime ministers, six cabinet ministers, a | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
host of celebrities, and even a splash of TV presenters. Most | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
facing Lord Leveson's attack job, chief inquisitor, Robert Jay. | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
are formally presenting this as your evidence to our inquiry. | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
cameras were installed in court 73 in the Royal Court of justice to | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
broadcast the hearings worldwide, as only court participants and 14 | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
members of the public are allowed actually to sit in. The testimony | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
is due to end in July, although the judge's report is not expected | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
until the Autumn. Here to discuss the legacy of the Leveson qieorny | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
are a former editor of the Times, Simon Jenkins, phone hacking victim, | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
Abi Titmuss, ex-tabloid reporter, Richard Peppiatt, and the Labour MP | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
culture select committee member. From what we saw today, Simon | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
Jenkins, of the awkward closeness, between politician and journalist, | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
is that in itself not a good subject from the Leveson Inquiry to | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
air. We need to hear about these things, don't we? We need to hear | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
about them, we have heard about them for several months. It is not | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
unusual, nothing knew about it. It is worth knowing about things that | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
were probably hidden and should be brought into the open. I have no | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
problem with that at all. I think it is great pity an opportunity is | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
going lost. This is being run as a show trial for the Murdochs, but | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
honestly if there is serious things to discuss about journalistic | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
ethics you need to be balanced about it. It shouldn't be a court | :15:16. | :15:22. | |
of law t should be a seminar, or committee of inquiry, rather than | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
this take-dog figure, going for everyone in a Richard Nixon way. | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
be fair, it is not just Murdoch in the frame, the conversation is | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
about other newspapers as well? Hardly, you could be forgiven for | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
thinking this is a show trial of the Murdoch empire. The Murdoch | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
empire was trying to exert political pressure, no doubt about | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
t every newspaper does and every proprietor has. Is that what you | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
think? It's him just defending Rupert Murdoch. There is Richard | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
Peppiatt talking about what toxic tabloid journalism is really like, | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
Abi Titmuss here has been attacked. This is PR from the media people. | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
Abi Titmuss, your phone was hacked, you took a settlement. Do you feel | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
that watching this inquiry we are actually getting something that is | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
productive and will make a change, or are you, perhaps, of the mind | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
that it will go away, it will just be the same. There was an inquiry | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
20 years ago and nothing really changed? I imagine Lord Leveson | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
feels the weight of history on his shoulders at the moment. I imagine | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
he's keen to make changes. That is the right thing. When it comes to | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
press regulation, that is a very difficult question, I think free | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
press is vital for democracy. For example, obvious low the media give | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
me the information I need to vote, but, therefore, for me, what I | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
would like to see regulated is the relationship between press and | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
politician, the leaders and the media owners, I would like that to | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
be formal and transparent. In your own case, I think you talked about | :16:58. | :17:05. | |
it as being one part toxic co- dependency your relationships with | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
the tabloids. Did you feel in any way, not that you were complicit, | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
but you were in a game? You even if the Faustian pact that Steve kooing | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
began was referring. To when I talk about this subject, I start about | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
saying, yes I have a relationship with the press, I still do I | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
embraced it to begin with to a certain extent. You courted them? | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
They came to me I wouldn't say to start off with I courted them. I | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
didn't have a choice that they hacked my own or followed me and | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
took my picture -- my phone, and they followed me and took my | :17:40. | :17:46. | |
picture. I tried to take some sort of control over it. It came toxic | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
co-dependance, it was symbiotic. It is very different now. Do you think | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
it has changed, the whole question of the relationship between | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
celebrities and the red tops? fascinating seeing some of the | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
defences put forward by the tabloid editors, picture desks, saying a | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
lot of the paparazzi pictures are set up, and the stories are set up. | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
What I don't seem to recognise is when you are presenting a story in | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
a newspaper, if it is set up, and you are not admitting to the reader, | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
you are lying to them. You are pretending something is happening | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
that is not. This isn't news, this is entertainment. That is an | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
entertainment product. There needs to be a distinction drawn between | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
proper public interest journalism and entertainment. The problem for | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
the public is trust has gone in many ways, not only of politician, | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
but of newspapers. That, in a declining market, is a pretty awful | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
thing. Leveson n a sense, has exposed that lack of trust. | :18:41. | :18:47. | |
I think he has. Tom's select committee did a bit of work on. | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
That it became ludicrous to the extreme, I'm not a PR man for the | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
Murdoch press, but for the Guardian, I resent the suggestion I am. The | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
only way to conduct the debate t seems, that if Tom disagrees with t | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
they are hack for the Murdochs. Let's go back to your point. There | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
is a real chance here of trying to get a Code of Practise for | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
journalist, I don't think it can be handled statutoryly, we tried it on | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
a previous committee and we didn't succeed. The Calcot committee, that | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
set up the press complaints committee, it was right to say, if | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
this is not working in 18 months, we will look at it again. Here we | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
are 0 years later, they never looked at it -- 20 years later, | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
they nevered at it again? That was the third committee. Can you make a | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
voluntary code? Can you make a code, and plead with a new press | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
complaints commity. That is what will happen any way. Plead with | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
them to be more tough on journalist, more independent and all of that. | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
You can pass a law and set autopsy quango to run the press, it is not | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
on. You are setting up a false dichotomy, with the greatest | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
respect. This is not a decision between statutory regulation and a | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
free-for-all. There is a huge grey area. Let's be clear, you are in | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
favour of statutory regulation? in favour of a statutory | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
underpinning of regulation independent of Government, and of | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
the press. It will have members of the press involved with it, but | :20:16. | :20:22. | |
there is statutory balances to make sure that politicians cannot | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
interfere with the freedom of the press. Let's not forget that proper | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
regulatory system will protect journalists as much as the public. | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
It will mean the excesses we have seen, where journalists feel | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
pressure today do immoral and illegal things won't occur because | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
there won't be the pressure within the companies themselves. I think | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
that is possible. There needs to be a Press Complaints Commission, | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
which is the mediator, between the complaints and the press. There | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
need to be a body overseeing the professionalism of journalism. | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
is why it is so important to have the inquiry, and it is worth having. | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
I spoke to people, knowing I was coming on the show, the general | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
public are bored with it, they think it is all about celebrities | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
whose phones have been hacked, who are getting settlements, as you | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
mentioned. It is bring to go the attention issues pertinent to all | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
of us, which is the power of media owners and the relationship between | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
press and politicians. In a democratic society we should be | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
concerned. Isn't there danger the public will be turned away from the | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
politicians and the press, and there has to be a positive outcome, | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
would that positive outcome for you be statutory legislation. I think | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
Richard nailed it on the head. Independent regulation. The goal | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
should be that. We are meant to have independent regulation at the | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
moment? We haven't any regulation, we might be reaching a consensus | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
here. The goal should be to oblige an editor to put a matter right | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
when they have made a mistake, or deliberately done something wrong. | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
The remedy is slightly harder to find, but it is not beyond the wit | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
of man do that. It is very difficult. We are looking for the | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
same thing. We are trying to find some way of making journalists to | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
behave more responsibly when they do their work. Nobody has any | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
quarrel with that. They are up against fierce competitive forces, | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
and actresses and politicians, keen to get on with them in various ways, | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
it is extremely difficult to regulate these relationships. I | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
genuinely believe you won't get there. You won't get a law that | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
makes any sense here. All you can get is some form of discipline, | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
that has to be self-discipline, out of the system you have at the | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
moment. It will be another version of now. It really won't make much | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
difference? I don't think so. you believe after all these months, | :22:40. | :22:47. | |
Lord Leveson must be head in hands listening to this discussion. He | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
wants proper judicial work hast to sit through these endless witnesses. | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
It will be much more than �2 million at the end? If all the | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
money, wasted by Government, I would happily see an inquiry every | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
other year into some element of our political process. I think we have | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
more insight, as a public, into how the machinations of Westminster, | :23:09. | :23:14. | |
how decisions get made, than we have in decades of parliament. | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
have greater participation in democracy because of it do you | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
think? I think so. I think it is refresh to go see when newspapers | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
editors are sending lots of love to prime ministers. This we should | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
know about. I think it is brilliant. I think Lord Leveson put it | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
beautifully in the start of the inquiry, saying who guards the | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
guardians. Do you think it will make any difference, Simon is being | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
cynical here, but doesn't actually think the Leveson Inquiry will make | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
any difference? I hope so. It will take radical and robust proposals | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
all parties can rally behind, I hope he can do it. People were | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
doing far worse things in the 1980s than now. Journalists were doing | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
worse, the relationship between journalists and politicians was | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
closer and more venal. The BBC was getting into bed with politician, | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
and the lawyers getting into bed with politicians. I'm all for | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
exposing things, I agree with Richard to this extent. It wasn't | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
that bad this time. This is not just all about what we are hearing | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
today about David Cameron there were other former prime ministers, | :24:17. | :24:19. | |
including Gordon Brown earlier this week. And then Gordon Brown | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
insisting that there were no briefings, his relationships were | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
all sweet and light. And yet, people were saying, really? Murdoch | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
asked John Major to switch his policy on Europe. Tom you worked in | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
Downing Street when Gordon Brown was there? I didn't do press | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
briefings. The interesting thing for me is every Prime Minister that | :24:37. | :24:44. | |
has been in front of Leveson has denied what, Tony Blair, Alastair | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
Campbell, Gordon Brown denied Damian McBride, David Cameron | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
denied Andy Coulson. They are all at it, then? They should know what | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
their spin doctors are doing in their name. It is pretty | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
inreceivable that they don't? is for them to -- Inconceivable | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
that they don't? That is for them to say, but it is pretty | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
inconceivable. The Chancellor and the governor of the Bank of England | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
announced today they were working together today on an �80 billion | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
pot for lending. Speaking at the Mansion House event, they plan to | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
kick start lending to households and businesses within weeks, | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
through an emergency bank funding scheme. Under the proposal British | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
banks will be offered vital funding at low interest rates, but the | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
money will be linked to bank lending performance. The governor | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
and I will take co-ordinated action on liquidity and funding for new | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
bank lending, in order to inject new confidence into our financial | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
system. And support the flow of credit into where it is needed in | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
the real economy. We are not powerless in the face of the | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
eurozone debt storm. Together we can deploy new fire power to defend | :25:52. | :26:00. | |
our economy from the crisis on our doorstep. | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
We have Allegra Stratton and our Economics Editor with us, Paul | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
Mason, what do you think of it? What is the thinking behind this? | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
One newspaper tomorrow is saying Mervyn King is pressing the panic | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
button. It is not quite that. But people in Government are scared of | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
the effects of Sunday's election in Greece and what it could do to the | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
eurozone and how it would affect our economy, because 40% of our | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
trade is with the continent. It has already had problems. They are | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
announcing tonight a new way of getting money directly out. They | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
had reports for a long time now that small businesses weren't | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
getting lending. Equally mortgages were not passing on the low rates | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
to people. It is an attempt to get it on the treat. If quanative | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
easing was about the same initials of the Queen of England, I would | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
like to think this is the Prince William version. It is much more | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
and they are trying to get it out on to the streets to make it more | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
modern. If it hadn't been for Sunday's elections, all those | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
people, small business, and people with mortgages, would have been | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
banging on for months and not getting results? I think these | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
things were in train, this is a summer of great announcements, | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
somebody said there would be four, it is all the same principle, how | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
do you get much more activity out on to the streets. At the moment it | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
is hogged in the bank and out in the weird computerised money, not | :27:19. | :27:27. | |
thriel in people's pockets. Also, there is a sense -- in people's | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
pockets. Also there is a sense they have to knock each other's heads | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
together and get on with it. We are joined by Paul, filming in Athens. | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
Do you think this will work? Chancellor is doing two things | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
today, and Mervyn King together with him. The first thing is to | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
pump ready cash into the banking system. �5 billion a month, �30 | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
billion over six months. That is the equivalent of inflating an air | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
bag in car before the crash happens. We know what the crash will be, | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
here in Athens, whoever wins the election, nobody thinks Greece can | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
do what it is supposed to do under the bail out. The eurozone is | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
facing a pretty decisive moment pretty soon. That is what that is | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
for. The other thing, the bank printing money and lending it to | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
banks so, the banks can swap their bad detects for some good money, | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
and then lend some more. That is what is talked about. That is there | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
to solve a different problem. That problem is the existing policy is | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
not working. The Project Merlin, supposed to get banks lending to | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
small businesses and lending mortgages, is clearly not doing | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
enough for the Chancellor. The other thing this policy is supposed | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
to do, is fill the gap that fiscal policy can't. Obviously the | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
Government is terrified of one thing, that is that we get dragged | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
into this whirlpool of downgrades and counter downgrades that the | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
rest of Europe is undergoing. It is the last moment when the Government | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
thinks it can move on tax and spend. It has to get Mervyn King to move | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
on printing money and doing something creative with it. The | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
problem is, though it doesn't affect Britain's triple-A rating t | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
says that the Bank of England is strong enough to say a bit of risky | :29:06. | :29:12. | |
lending with its own money. That is a kind of unknown ter treatment we | :29:12. | :29:19. | |
wouldn't be in it unless we were expect -- territory, we wouldn't be | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
in it unless we are expecting dire events from Europe. This money is | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
getting out there fast? You say, that there is no detail to the plan. | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
On the bigger scheme, the �80 billion is what they are talking | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
about. The liquidity they can get out fast. The �80 billion to | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
restart bank lend to go small businesses and households, we have | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
-- lending to small businesss and households, we have to see the | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
detail. The Treasury couldn't explain tonight how the money would | :29:46. | :29:56. | |
be swamped from the banks to banks. Is this an admission that Project | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
Merlin has failed? This is pulling out all the stops on Plan A. This | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
is using the hard-won fiscal authority, to get money through to | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
businesses that we needed. That is the suggestion, that you hadn't | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
been pulling out the stops up until now? The economic environment is | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
deteriorating around the globe. We are facing more instability in | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
Greece, we have to work harder at Plan A. But we have the chance to | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
do that now. This wasn't in Plan A. Isn't that the point, you are | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
stretching Plan A, just so you can't call it Plan B? We can | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
stretch it because of the hard-won fiscal credibility. For two years | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
we built it up. We have a stronger balance sheet, now we can deploy | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
that to help the banks get more money through. The other thing had | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
a has changed is the banks are finding it more expensive to borrow | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
on the international market, at the same time they have to stack more | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
capital up for regulatory purposes. The money isn't getting through to | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
home owners who need it and businesses. Paul Mason said it | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
wouldn't affect Britain's credit rating, but does it reveal tonight | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
how worried George Osborne and the governor of the Bank of England, | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
Mervyn King, are? It is an understanding that the economic | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
outlook is deteriorating for this country. We trade enormously with | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
the eurozone. There is more instability there. We have to do | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
everything we can to keep Britain safe through the storm. That means | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
making sure that businesses can get the money they need, not just small | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
businesses, but all businesses, and home owners can get the mortgages | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
they need. How long will you give it before you decide it works or | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
not? The scheme is decided to be up and run anything few weeks. If it | :31:33. | :31:39. | |
increases the stock of running in a few weeks. It increases the stock | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
of lending and if we can get it running this year it should make a | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
difference. Today Paul ventured far from Athens to a village to see | :31:49. | :31:57. | |
what hopes Tierney have -- tis it is have of picking up the -- | :31:57. | :32:04. | |
Ahtisaari to see what they have -- For this man the decisions are | :32:04. | :32:10. | |
usually measured in kilos. Kilos of hey, which is expensive, kilos of | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
beef which he rears, but finds hard to sell. This is deep Greece. The | :32:16. | :32:25. | |
mountains of this. Essili, a Greece res nant with the past, and from | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
from which the parties draw their history. Something is happening in | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
the small squares, deep discontent. TRANSLATION: People are desperate, | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
they can't take it any more. We think Tsipras can do things | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
differently let's see what he has to offer. He's never been in power | :32:43. | :32:52. | |
before. TRANSLATION: We are a generation that should be peaking | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
now, if I had known this would happen I would never have gotten | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
married, I'm very worried about them. Most of the young farmers I | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
spoke to in this village said they would spoke for the far left party | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
Tsipras, but more out of desperation than conviction. | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
TRANSLATION: Greece could be out of the euro, which we don't want. But | :33:12. | :33:18. | |
we have to vote for him, because in the last 20 years of PASOK and New | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
Democracy, we saw nothing good. Now let's see what happens. | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
Now, hi no idea they were going to say that. In fact, I came here | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
thinking they would say the exact opposite. But when a party of | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
Marxists, radical greens and feminists, is getting votes from | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
farmers, through hours into the mountains, away from Athens, | :33:40. | :33:49. | |
something is going on. Tsipras's rise has been spectacular, | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
a coalition of the radical left, they never scored more than 5% | :33:52. | :34:02. | |
:34:02. | :34:02. | ||
until the crisis. In the may election they scored 17%, | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
and this man, Alexis Tsipras, came the figure head to resistance to | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
austerity. Now they are polling as high as 27%. And within a few | :34:12. | :34:19. | |
percentage points of power. But what would a Syriza Government | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
do? In the first place rip up the bail out deal agreed in March and | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
then says the party's economics expert, tax the rich. For the next | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
four years we want to introduce measures to increase public | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
receipts by 1% a year at least. Raising taxes? Raising taxes. | :34:35. | :34:42. | |
all income tax? It will be income taxes, wealth taxes. It will be | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
taxes on, I don't know, even the church, this Channel Tunnel doesn't | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
pay. What is the Greek word for "goodbye ", as the rich and middle- | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
class leave the one? Well. there is only one answer to capital | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
flight and it is taboo? Capital controls. Would you introduce | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
capital controls to prevent capital flight? You need to introduce | :35:03. | :35:09. | |
capital controls, and all kinds of measures to stop these, the | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
reaction. But capital controls in the eurozone are only legal for | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
security reasons. The Greek left is well aware that would prompt a | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
clash with the euro authorities? we are push today the precipice, we | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
will have to default. If you default you will be forced out of | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
the eurozone? Is it better to default under a left-wing or right | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
left-wing Government. We have Once Seen a Government of Marxist eco | :35:39. | :35:46. | |
radical feminists in the eurozone? To put your mind at rest, we are | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
mild in those things. We are for peaceful change. | :35:51. | :35:57. | |
Greek political commentators believe the Syriza vote is not just | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
left-wing voters moving further left, it is something more | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
emotional. The young people are turning massively towards Syriza, | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
older ones like me tend to go with old parties. But it is people | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
feeling desperate as things evolve in Greece. It is a vote of grief, | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
rather than a vote of anger. People feel helpless, they feel | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
abandoned. So they feel that somebody has stood up for them. | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
This somebody is Syriza. nowhere is that clearer than in the | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
mountains and the villages that many urban Greek also return to | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
this weekend, to cast their votes. It was the small businessmen who | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
formed the backbone of the old political system. Many of them, | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
like this man, feel they have been ruined by the bail out programme, | :36:49. | :36:55. | |
and they despair of politics. will vote more just to say | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
something, for example I will vote Syriza just to say that I don't | :37:00. | :37:08. | |
want these measures any more. This is not working. We need to grow our | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
economy. But you don't believe in the party itself? No, no, no, no. | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
And private polls indicate that Greeks going to this election with | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
a tight margin, between the mainstream and Marxism. | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
We apologise for the technical problems with that film. | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
Gordon Brown, George Osborne, John Major, Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg, | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
Alex Salmond, and today, David Cameron, all got a grilling at the | :37:34. | :37:40. | |
Leveson Inquiry this week. But was it a grilling or a light steam. Our | :37:40. | :37:46. | |
panel are here to give their verdicts. Danny Finkelstein, Sally | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
Morgan, former righthand woman at Downing Streeting, and Miranda | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
Green, one time adviser to the Liberal Democrats. What do you | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
think we learned about David Cameron today, apart from the fact | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
that he's your mate! First of all, prais prime ministers having to | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
answer questions under oath at the Royal Courts of Justice is not | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
great look. The whole thing has been an ordeal for the incumbent | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
party, and more of an ordeal than they thought about when they set it | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
up. The first part of the inquiry which learned a lot about press | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
ethics, that will help in the future. The next section has been | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
less successful, embarrassing for the Government, the texts have been | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
embarrassing. They went after the idea that there was a big | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
conspiracy and didn't prove it, they wasted a lot of time with that. | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
That is disappointing. The public, which has never been that engaged | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
with this part of it, has now become much less engaged with it. I | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
suspect the political consequences of the prime ministers' performance | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
-- the Prime Minister's performance, not what you want, it makes them | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
look out of control, will not be that great, because public interest | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
has waneed. The idea at the beginning of the inquiry that | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
people felt passionate about, now not so much. Did you learn | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
something about David Cameron, how he handled himself today? I thought | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
he handled himself well, he looked uncomfortable at times, as you | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
would expect. It is not great listening to testimony like. That | :39:15. | :39:22. | |
it was excruciating, wasn't it. I suppose what I think Is the sort of | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
damaging smell, or taste that is left at the end of today, really, | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
there was nothing killing there. It was just this added perception of | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
this kind of clique, living a life. It adds to the feeling that they | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
are very separate from the rest of us. That is the problem, I think. | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
The thing was, the text, as has been said several times, was from | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron, not the other way round. It | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
suggested a close relationship, and the language of the text was all | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
about that. Was she quite close to him at the time? I mean I couldn't | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
tell you, but it certainly does, as Sally said, leave this idea, | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
amongst the general public, that there is a cosiness, a media and | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
political elite, it is all terribly chummy, and what is the fate of the | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
rest of the population. It leaves the rest of the population out? | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
important thing to note is they started with that view. I don't | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
think it will have changed much. You don't want it to reinforce that | :40:19. | :40:26. | |
view, do you? No, and I think David Cameron hoped during expenses to | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
separate himself from that view. It is about the whole of the political | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
class. The party political damage, I expect Tom Watson hopes he has | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
induced, more that it has damaged David Cameron's relationship with | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
the rest of the press rather than causing the Tories' problems. | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
largely agree with that, I think the public have switched off and it | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
has done nothing for politics or media. But I do think it is | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
particularly damaging for David Cameron, at the moment. It just | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
adds to that general view of, not just that politicians are different, | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
but that this group are not suffering like the rest of us. They | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
are living a different sort of life. You, from your own background know | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
exactly what happens when things get out of control. It looks to me | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
that Leveson setting the agenda, not the politicians, that can't be | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
good for any of the parties. Let's take Gordon Brown's performance, | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
Gordon Brown looked as if butter wouldn't melt in his mouth. I mean, | :41:22. | :41:29. | |
how did that happen? There was no challenge to that, of course? | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
challenge during the inquiry. really? They let it run. I thought | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
there were two parts of Gordon, there was the section where he was | :41:37. | :41:44. | |
talking about his son. And I think in a sense, there would be a level | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
of sympathy from people listening to 0 that. And there was -- to that. | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
And then there was the briefing and the spinning, you could ask six | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
questions, if you were going to get the answer Gordon gave, why ask it | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
six times. My point of view is it wouldn't convince anybody. With the | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
Liberal Democrats, they have been in parade, looking back, Nick Clegg | :42:05. | :42:11. | |
actually came out of it quite well? I think Nick Clegg is much better | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
talking like a normal person. Funnily enough he returned a bit to | :42:16. | :42:26. | |
the Nick Clegg USP that he has lost so disastrously in Government. He | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
was charming, self-deprecating humour worked very well on TV, and | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
a bonding moment with Brian Leveson. It is true,'s good at that. | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
managed to distance himself, that crack of being at the children's | :42:40. | :42:47. | |
end of the table, was an effective way of saying he's not part of the | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
circle. Is it that the Liberal Democrats don't matter? The thing | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
to remember is people aren't watching. I spent a total of eight | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
days watching the Leveson. But that is because I do that for a living. | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
Other people, they went to work. They didn't watch the inquiry. | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
is the point. You said earlier on that there may well be proposals | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
out of that, and they will have arisen from the early part of the | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
inquiry. The problem is, for the public, this is making politicians, | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
and the press, so far removed from them? The early part of the Leveson | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
Inquiry was gripping and moving. And any journalist would have to | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
lock at it and think, beyond what I even thought, this make as case for | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
having some form of redress, and changing the way the press behave. | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
I think this part of the Leveson Inquiry, particularly after a while | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
beginning to repeat itself, was much less effective and has lost a | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
lot of public interest. The public thought they already knew that | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
journalists and politicians were living separate lives from them, | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
that is how they feel about them. I don't think it has changed that an | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
awful lot. I think it will have forced a change in behaviour. | :43:53. | :44:00. | |
it? To deal with the whole aftermath of Hutton, how did you | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
get things back on track and they didn't stay on track that long? | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
Hutton, I was saying to Danny, beforehand, looking at it, you | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
think, oh no, you set an inquiry up, and it takes over. No matter how | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
stietly you have set up the framework for an inquiry. Once you | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
set it up? It runs itself. can't interfere? It consumes vast | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
hours and days and weeks of activity in the centre. When you | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
look at what else is happening in the country at the moment. How do | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
you get back, you have to weight until Leveson finshes? There will | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
be pause in the summer, they will wait until he finshes and they will | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
need to respond to his propoetsals quickly. Do you -- Proposals | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
quickly. Do you think that is the way to knock it on the head, to | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
respond quickly? An interesting difference emerged between Ed | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
Miliband, Nick Clegg and David Cameron. David Cameron was much | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
less on statutory underpinning, clearly the Conservative instinct | :44:59. | :45:05. | |
is different. There will be a genuine debate about what to do. | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
The Times has been very against statutory underpinning, other | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
moneys are more favourable. There is an appetite for change, it is | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
interesting, John Major's evidence was fascinating this week. Tony | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
Blair appealing for the current Prime Minister to act in the way | :45:19. | :45:27. | |
that he never did. I think there is a moment hire that must be seized. | :45:27. | :45:34. | |
If it -- Here that must be seized. If it isn't seized, public will be | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
doubly disengaged, thinking it is all a waste of time? There are | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
other things going on. We are in the middle two of massive threats, | :45:41. | :45:47. | |
the eurozone, Syria. One of the terrible things this week is we had | :45:47. | :45:54. | |
Leveson and PMQs this week where nobody asked anything about Syria | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
or Europe. The issues that relate to real people at the hands of the | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
press, people are interested. The Government have to do something | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
about it. Do you think whatever happens it withers the relationship | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
between the politicians and the press? In the newspapers, a lot of | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
the consequence is the Tory press has turned on the Tory Party, that | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
is one of the consequences. It will all change soon. Tomorrow morning's | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
front pages. Thank you all very much. | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
�140 billion to kick start the economy. The Independent has the | :46:26. | :46:31. |