Episode 2 Nolan Live

Hello there, everybody, and welcome to the show.

As you can hear, I too have been struck down by election manflu.

Won't stop us though, with just over a week

to go until the big vote, there is lots to talk

We want to get into the show as quickly as possible tonight.

From Sinn Fein we have Mairtin O Muilleoir.

For the Ulster Unionists, Philip Smith.

Clare Hanna of the SDLP is here, and finally, Kellie Armstrong

We did as Q3 small parties to join us, they were all invited but they

won't be coming into night. You can find all the information on our web

page about every party running. Let's get stuck in shade away. --

straightaway. As ever, we want you to get involved

in the debate from home too. There will be a lot of details

appearing on screen through the course of this.

With Brexit round the corner, what will happen if things go badly or go

well? What policies will you get the most out of? You're right with

bridging even question about Brexit because Brexit will be a big

question over this election, it is pivotal. I was born in -- I voted in

1979, meaning I may not be the oldest person hair, but I voted in

that election, with the blanket protest at that time. This is the

most important election since that time. Brexit will not affect the

election. Brexit is one of the biggest issues. It's another

opportunity for us to say we want a solution to Brexit that will

mitigate the economic damage. ?2.3 million went to our farmers this

year and will go... You lost the vote, it's over, it's done. We are

leaving the European Union. Now, we won the vote. 56%... Al tell you

what, call me big man one more time and you won't be knocking too many

doors next week. Who said I'm not any doors this week? We have an

opportunity to turn its back and when I listened to the narrative

from London, they say you will not be able to do anything. I've been to

Brussels meeting senior parliamentarians and they say we

understand the peace process, that is a crowning achievement of the EU.

Don't let your heads drop. Al you suggesting to people that if they

vote for Sinn Fein, it might stop Brexit? This is what I'm

suggesting... Make sure that when you cast your vote, Brexit is not

only about the DUP's arrogance... Talk about Brexit because it is the

biggest threat. Are you saying Sinn Fein could stop Brexit? I think with

the people here in the north of Ireland, in Ireland and 27 states

across the European Union, we can make sure that whatever England and

Wales wants to do, as well as Scotland, we can get a special

stages, remain in the single market... Not remain in the EU!

Absolutely! Why would you not? Why we do not want to be any single

market? There's been referendum throughout the UK. The last time I

held its Northern Ireland as part of the EU whether you like it or not.

-- part of the UK. Simon what about the peace protest? Looking on the

panel, I think I'm one of the only people here who voted Brexit. I

believe we are much better off outside of the EU. Breaking free of

the shackles of Brussels' bureaucracy. I voted against being

in an 1975, lost then, waited 41 years and I'm glad to say that last

year, the decision was taken to leave the EU. Moving forward, we

want to get the best deal for Northern Ireland and it is

essential, therefore, that it's a battle happened, we have an

executive in place in the assembly. We are not in a position where Sinn

Fein hold us to ransom in order for them to further protect the aim of

their own. We need a functioning executive so it can dissipate fully

any discussions. Back to the audience. You with your hand up

there. Nelson just mentioned the freedom we will get from Brexit and

all the rest but where is the freedom going to come from

Westminster? 56% of people, whether you like to admit it or not, voted

to stay in the EU. As Martian said, they will be -- Mairtin said.

Conditions for Brexit will be set by the EU. We should be... Stating the

rules on how we leave. Whether people like it or not, whether Sinn

Fein like it or not, the fact is that Northern Ireland is part of the

United Kingdom, it was the United Kingdom joined Europe and it is the

United Kingdom that is leaving Europe. It was a UK wide decision.

What happens in Yorkshire, Gloucestershire, Northern Ireland or

South Wales or whatever is not the issue. The issue is that it was a UK

wide decision. I am behind freedom because we can rebuild our fishing

industry which was decimated by Europe. We can put people back into

fishing, have more jobs in fishing, there are good things. Do you have

guarantees? Once you break free from the shackles of Europe. So no

guarantees as we stand? I can guarantee anything. What I can

say... APPLAUSE

Are there any guarantees to the farmers? It is the restrictions on

Europe will be free from. Once you unburden yourself, can you please

guarantee... He was the question, can you guarantee the fishing

industry and farming industry in this country will not be at a net

loss from where they currently are? You and I know very well that the

fishing industry usually a very successful industry in Northern

Ireland. There were a lot of very successful ones in what has happened

to them as a result. Can you guarantee they will not be at a net

loss from where they are as part of Europe? Young until their artful

negotiations to United Kingdom governments, the sovereign

governments for Northern Ireland, on dildos are completed, it is

premature for anybody. -- on Jill those are completed. This

that is why we need an executive in place. Upon donations on Brexit

foreign opinion, everyone else seems to be against it. I want to have an

opinion. There is a packed audience night and I'm telling you tonight,

there will be over 100,000 people, well over it at home watching your

answer to this. Who paid for the donation? Needed, glossy donation?

?250,000. A supplement. We paid for it? The position is that political

parties across the UK were able to receive donations in order to pay

for their campaign. Just a minute. It was right and proper that we

should have been able to put the case for Brexit. Let me finish my

point. I'll come to it in a moment. The fact is that David Cameron and

his fellow in London, George Osborne and all the rest, where putting all

the weight of the Tory governments behind the remain campaign. Who was

it from? I have a husky voice tonight, look after me. Just answer

the question. Stephen, you can save your voice for a minute if you let

me speak. Our party leader has at the campaign leader to see what can

be published in the greatest possible level of transparency as

soon as is practical. That will become clear very soon. Before the

election? I hope so. Why not now? There is a situation in Northern

Ireland where there is confidentiality around down to

political parties and that applies to all of them. That is the

conversation that is taking place. He has spoken to the donor? I

innocently short of the fact that he is talking to the donor. Has the

Downer said yes or no? -- absolutely sure. -- donor. Were you not sure it

was, tonight? LOSS OF SOUND

Yes, unelected bureaucrats are meant to be influencing our lives and then

you have this. -- all the magic freedom dust that you want to gather

round to put money into the pockets of farmers and fishermen. There are

no guarantees. You say we need an executive in place and I agree.

Looking at all the plans, we have signed up to the legislation that

well... We didn't get a ?250,000 donation but I will tell you what we

did get... We knocked our hands in for that. People will know who that

make a case to them. -- pans. They had eight months after the

referendum and did not put a plan in place. Scotland and Wales have them.

Things are for grabs. The thing is, the father Brexit evacuees and eight

not out... THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER. The conversation the dream

United Kingdom governments has started. Let me have you a question

about the integrity of your party. Let me have it straight. It was then

that the party wants to be as open and transparent as possible. He said

we will make our position where once you have gone through all the

decisions with the electoral commission. He said you're looking

into it at the moment with the electoral commission. The electoral

commission said there have been no discussions with the DUP on the

issue of publishing... APPLAUSE

There is an issue regarding the return to their electoral committee.

He has been talking about those returns. We will not be to them

about confidentiality because under the law in Northern Ireland, there

is a guarantee of confidentiality for their owners. He hasn't had any

conversation. Let me finish my sentence. He has had a conversation

with the electoral committee regarding the returns because they

have to be spoken about in a certain time. He has spoken to the donors

because he would not be speaking to be a little permission about that.

That is the position, making it clear tonight that he has been

talking to the donors and as soon as possible, there will be maximum

transparency. Hold on, in the context of who gave the money, Sir

Geoffrey said we are looking into it at the moment with the electoral

commission. You gave me money? We're looking into it with the electoral

commission. Why would you not say, what do you think about the

publishing? You would not say it because they will turn Alan Taylor

is a guarantee of confidentiality. -- turn round and say. They are

looking at it with regard to the returns. We know the amount. The

issue is with the individuals. Let me say this, the money spent by the

DUP... Hold on, hold on, no. He rang the electoral commission and it's

already out there that it was around about ?250,000 and the conversation

went, it's already out there on the amount, but let's have this

conversation again. Is that what he did? I never made returns, have you?

Now. Neither had I, so I don't know any more than you. It could be

?700,000, so let's just see what the amount is. Now, it couldn't be,

let's just see. That the maximum. Can we start talking about how we

fix it? THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER. Your party knows how much it was.

Jeffrey will make the announcement in the next couple of days. Why not

just tell us? This doesn't work to your timescale for your programme.

The announcement will be in the next couple of days. Before the election?

I would anticipate that. Thank you, Stephen. Back to Brexit...

APPLAUSE This is our plan. Blank sheet of

paper. They've got blogging. They are failing Northern Ireland. Not

only do they not have a plan, everyone else has one. The Republic,

Scotland, Wales, everyone. It is universally accepted we are the most

affected region by Brexit and will are really prepared. -- we are the.

We published a plan in September. Talk me through the big three point.

Other three major points of your Brexit plan because they are leaving

the EU, what job and want to protect the economy?

We want to make sure we have access to the single market. How do you do

that? We go to Theresa May, we have given her our plan. We have given it

to the Taoiseach as well. What was it? There were ten points in the

plan. First point is more investment in infrastructure. How much more? We

said we would need to see a boost of at least two or three times what the

current spend is. Because our infrastructure... Where does that

money come from? We have to go back to the UK Government with our

plan... Hold on a minute, is of the biggest thing you said to Theresa

May was you said you want... I am not sure what you are talking about.

Do you want three times the block grant? No, three times our current

infrastructure expenditure. So you are asking the British Government

for another ?2 billion? Absolutely. Why not? After Brexit, they printed

?80 billion worth of money. That has impacted on the property prices and

those who hold shares etc in London. Isn't it about time that Northern

Ireland got some benefit? Everyone realises we will be the most

impacted. We need some action. Yes, go ahead. The idea that we can get

some sort of special arrangement or unique position from the EU is quite

frankly absolute nonsense. The Scottish have already tried and as

far as I know they have failed. Kellie? I have to say that for years

we were recognised as the hinterland of Europe and we have received

millions in European money. Why should we not negotiate for

ourselves? We are in the hinterland. We are the only part of the UK that

has a land border with another state. We have a special status. We

are on our own and we will be on our own if we do not do that to

solution. The fact is, if we have the soft border that Theresa May

says we are getting, that is already a special status. We have been

asking for a year how you deliver that but we have been assured at all

levels that there is support for it in Europe and whatever you think

about Europe, it is a creative problem solver. There are specific

arrangements. How would Europe leave a soft border between a non-European

country and a European country? We have been asking how that happens.

One thing, is Nissan can walk into Downing Street and get special

staters to make cars, why cant Northern Ireland? We just have to

ask for it. I have been to the Scottish mission to Europe. I met

the finance minister to Europe. Do not like of the Scots ability to

fight for and win a special case or special status for Scotland, but for

us, we need access to the single market. The plan we need access to

the single market. We need to have freedom of movement, of good, but

also of people. I met David Davis, the Brexit minister, who in my view

is delusional and he says that in the negotiations they will get

everything they have plus more. But I want a guarantee that those from

other lands, from other European states, you live you, they have the

right and they will get that. I think Martin is being delusional if

he says that other people are being delusional I am sure that he will

not mind me describing him in that way. If he thinks that we will get

some sort of special status. Help me understand. How do you have a soft

border with customs? The position quite simply is that Northern

Ireland is the part of the UK and we would be leaving the EU and... Just

a minute. It is no wonder you have got a sore throat. The fact is that

it is now over to the UK Government and for our executive when it gets

back and functioning in due course, although Houston that will be is

another matter. The principal economic even practically, how can

you have a soft border with the customs implications of that?

Whatever sort of border there is, the fact is we are going to be out

of Europe and I welcome that. So you think there will be a hard worker? I

am not saying what type of border there will be because I do not know,

neither does anybody else. Nobody around this table models.

THEY ALL TALK OVER EACH OTHER But we accept the results.

You have no plan. You haven't a clue what to do. Are you telling me you

told people to leave Europe without knowing what they were voting for?

Without knowing whether there would be a soft or hard border? I would

not care what sort of situation I face as long as I have outside of

Europe. APPLAUSE Because the impositions of

Europe, the intrusions of Europe have damaged Northern Ireland down

through the years. We are a free now.

THEY ALL TALK OVER EACH OTHER You don't know how many jobs have been

lost. We were deceived when we were taken

into Europe at the beginning. And the referendum was a democratic

vote. And the fact is, Sinn Fein don't like it because it was a UK

wide vote and it's weird facts -- reinforces the fact that we are part

of the UK and its strips them of their fig leaf that they have never

got a united Ireland but they always held out to their followers this

whole that somehow we will be harmonised into a united Ireland

because of Europe. That is the fig leaf that has been stripped away. We

need to move on. I was yesterday speaking to the Belfast City Council

and some people who are dealing with investment and they say people are

uncertain. That will lead to a loss of jobs and I view this as the

damage caused by Brexit which needs to be mitigated and this is our way

or the highway is typical of the DUP. If you keep talking this

country down because we are leaving, it may lead to a loss of jobs,

rather than understanding that was the built and talking a loss of

jobs, rather than understanding that was the build and talking it back up

again. Let's be honest with people. Let's just be honest with people.

Every expert in economics, including our Government's own work which

predicted a loss of jobs, an increase in unemployment... It

predicted lots of things and they didn't happen. I think Nelson summed

it up. He doesn't care what the consequences are. So scorched earth.

He views everything through a green and orange prison. It is about

quality of life, access to funding. You said you don't care. One way or

the other, these two, they love a good crisis. This is the biggest

social, political, economic crisis to hit us in decades and decades and

they will have crises about everything else and they have done

nothing about this. It is just about point-scoring. OK.

OK, time for another question from our audience.

Emma Rooney, what's your question for our panel?

With regards to issues such as same sex and abortion, what gives

politicians the right to use their own religious beliefs and

unconscious to dictate public policy?

APPLAUSE I would simply say that the position

of the DUP is well known. It hasn't changed. We still are a party that

is pro-life. We are a party that is cruel traditional marriage. And we

have gone to the electorate time and time again on that basis and we will

do so this time. -- pro-traditional marriage. And it is not a question

of us doing anything that will surprise some, but that has always

been what we believe for the best outcome, that in the case of human

life, both lives matter, and we believe that the traditional

definition of marriage is the right one for all concerned. The Alliance

party believes completely that we work for everyone. My religious

beliefs have nothing to do with my politics. It is as simple as that.

APPLAUSE What is your position on gay marriage? It is a conscience

issue, along with abortion. We allow people to have opinions. Word is

your leader stand on gay marriage? I can tell you what my views. Where

does Mike Nesbitt stand on that? I think the last time he spoke in this

he said his position had evolved. To what? I think he had moved to

support. I think we have two C. I can tell you my opinion. You can't

tell us the leader's. What is his conscience on gay marriage? I will

tell you mine, how about that? I am here to give you my opinion. We are

the only jurisdiction on these islands with a bang. I do not think

it is cannibal. I think it comes back to what we want as a society.

Do we want to be open and tolerant and inclusive. Surely you should be

telling me rather than reading it from a sheet of paper? You don't

need to read it. Tell me. I've including any position of concern

like the DUP have done I think that is untenable. They now say they do

not want petitions of concern. Do you believe in redefining marriage?

I think it allows inclusivity. It recognises people's sexuality in a

reasonable weight and I think that the majority of people... Civil

partnerships recognise people's sexuality. Well, I think the

majority of people in Northern Ireland are supportive of this, as

they were in the Republic and the mainland. I think society is

changing. You are holding out to people that equality is a big issue

but quite conveniently for Sinn Fein you're not giving any red lines in

the election so therefore anybody who votes for your party, you are

not guaranteeing them anything. You are kind of nudging to words we

support it, but it is not a red line. So here is the direct question

to you. With the DUP, with their policy, if we return, you are the

biggest nationalist and they are the biggest unionist, will you go into

partnership with a party that says that gay people cannot get married

in Northern Ireland? Let me say that in terms of red lines, I have been

involved in politics and business for many years and never give red

lines away before a negotiation. That is not true about your party.

Michelle O'Neill has said she will not go back into Government with

Arlene Foster is the First Minister while there is an investigation is

continuing. You do red lines when it suits you. What I want to say is

this. Do you know what would be really good? When I do travel, and I

do sometimes, it is a great thing to be able to say that the biggest

parade in the city Belfast, and we have a lot of parades, is the Pride

parade. Through the city centre. And when I travel to meet people, where

they want to know about how Belfast is changing, that is something that

we are very proud of. So we need to have marriage equality. It is

shameful that it is everywhere else in these islands and it is not here.

We just want to live and let live. Let's get on with that. But you will

go back into Government with gay people still not been allowed to get

married in Northern Ireland, right? No, not necessarily. No or not

necessarily? Two very different statements. In the short time that

we have after these negotiations, our job is to try to make politics

work, but there could be a Government to return the status quo

and it is not just petitions of concern and others, it is also a

denigration of those that are different. Can I put a wee

hypothetical to? If somebody came up to you and your family and said, "I

am gay and I want to get married to somebody that I love." Could you sit

on that hill and legislate against them? Could you honestly sit there

and tell me you could legislate and say know I do not care if you are

happy or not, gay people cannot get married?

APPLAUSE All of the rights that come to married couples are also

available through a civil partnership. And I think that that

was the request at the time, that was what was introduced. I believe

that marriage is as it has traditionally been. That is my view.

I think we have to do is recognise there are different views, different

perspectives on it. So you would make your family unhappy? Just for

your own peace of mind? So you're saying that you like gays?

He hasn't said that he doesn't like gays. I find that the comment you

made their personally offensive because it is untrue. It is simply

offensive because it is untrue. I have never used those terms. When

you say, Nelson, that you absolutely do not dislike gay people and I have

never heard you say that, do you think that someone who is gay, do

you think their sexuality is normal? I'm not here tonight to enter into

theological discussion. It's not the logical, it is biological. Do you

think it is normal? The issue raised is... That is not my question. I am

representing the Democratic Unionist Party, this is about... Does the DUP

think homosexuality is normal? We think the right traditional marriage

is between a man and a woman. The rest of the UK has been married

aligned, why are we not in its? -- the marriage aligned? You will not

follow the UK law. It's called devolution. But we are meant to be

part of the UK, but don't use that. Reminded about a Democratic majority

voting for Brexit, what about the majority voting for same-sex

marriage? I don't know why gay people should settle for anything

less. APPLAUSE

. It's not a division of concern, and the use of the petition of

concern. I think we have shown that we are not ready... The position of

concern... THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER. They have 38 seats, they do

not have a majority. They should not be able to walk the majority will. I

was proud when I got is a set majority and it was blocked. The

fact is, it was not in the petition for Government. It's not the

petition, the use the petition. The programme for Government... Are you

criticising him for using the petition? I am criticising because

it was designed to protect minorities, not delinquent

ministers. That's how it has been used. This time last year, the

Alliance party went off to the justice minister and one of the key

things is they said we would not take it in less we got a review of

the petition of consent, -- concern. The DUP said no. I love my husband,

why can't a game I love his husband to? -- of his husband, too.

APPLAUSE Would you stop touching me? If any

city needs a laugh, it is this city. Is there genuinely any point in

politicians voting on issues when a petition of concern bingo in if it

does not go their party was Maclay? -- can get in. Does not go their

way. For my sins, I used to sit on Belfast City Council 30 years ago. A

time of great division and polarisation for this city, a

difficult time. What a pleasant place to be for minorities. The

position of concern is to protect minorities. If used in that way, it

is the right way. See what you just said there are, petition of concerns

is used to protect minorities. When Gerry Kelly was jumping on top of a

police Land Rover and Sinn Fein used a petition of concern in that

situation, to stop him being excluded, how was that protecting a

minority? Was that a proper use? It was a fair use. Protecting a

minority, was it? We have sent by the Unionist parties to try and find

a way to censor Gerry Kelly. -- we had an attempt. Democratic vote. You

do a petition of concern out of your back pocket. We cannot go back to

the way of Unionist and 1-party rule. The question is about

minorities. In what circumstance was Gerry Kelly a minority in front of a

police Land Rover? It is very important in this city, enduring

divisions over Orange marches that we don't al al those to force

margins on communities to get away with behaviour. -- allow. It came to

nothing. Do justify using them when it suits you? Not at all. It was

created to protect minorities. That's why we need a petition of

concern. Have I forgotten this? I'm sure you used one over welfare

reform as well. Yell back to protect the minority, the disabled, the

unemployed. Absolutely we will use it to protect the weak and

vulnerable, and those in the bottom of the economic ladder. Argue for or

against? I believe there has to be one, it just has to be reformed. It

has been abused. We do need to be able to protect people who are

vulnerable. Why is the democratic vote any gender not your? Because it

blanket ban on same-sex marriage. That's why we need one that can be

worked properly. Now, they used one to stop same-sex marriage. And that

should not be allowed. To be fair, they want to get rid of it. They are

offering to get rid of it. The petition seems to be that, for other

parties, they can use it when it suits their agenda but when it comes

to ours, there is a problem with it. I should point out that it's

preventing something that was put down to majoritarianism. It was not

an issue for the Alliance party, Sinn Fein or the DLP about that for

most of the days in the year, it was not an issue of majoritarianism

there. That's exactly right. Majoritarianism. That is not

majoritarianism! . A lot of different voters voted to have the

flag flies same way as it does in England. That is another break with

the rest of Britain. If you get across the whole of Britain, have a

blue, that is not the case. Shall have flags come into this? Back to

the petition of concerns. We need people to not be able to abuse it.

How many times what it used? This assembly has only lasted eight

months but would it assembly has only lasted eight

months but will get the last one. So many times to protect ministers,

themselves. If I remember rightly, Nelson in red sky. That is not how

it was meant to be used. Food the cynic draw from you offering... Your

party has offered to get rid of petition of concern, RNA? There is a

recognition that there has to be a general reform. Because the last

vote on gay marriage went against you? Could be cynic read into that

that, when the vote comes up the next time, new offer is so therefore

you are putting yourself in a position of getting rid of the

petition of concern and, if the majority vote is for gay marriage,

it is here? A couple of points. It is flushed out where other parties

is dude. It shows very clearly that others who criticised the use of it

were ready to retain it for the use of themselves. If someone else uses

it, they have a problem. Writer Matt --, the majority of those were on

welfare reform. It was about minorities. That's what we are

saying, don't bend it, we want mechanisms, the quality

commission... Why not the majority vote then? The purity of its? Have

you seen anything for the last 20 years?

APPLAUSE We are talking about getting things

up and running again and trying to take away the divisions. We adjust

our arguing over the same amount of things without going through an

orange prison and Green prison. We want to look at things like Brexit

and use argue amongst each other. -- prism.

OK, our next question is from James Clarke.

The majority of murders have been done by terrorists, while we try to

which the British Army veterans? -- why are we trying to conduct a

witchhunt. You are entitled to ask questions but you're not old enough

to... Fair play. What we are saying is victims have a right to justice

and the truth. If you remember Mr Cameron, the Prime Minister, spoke

after the bloody Sunday enquiry speaking about unjustifiable murders

and killing on bloody Sunday. We are now being told it should not be any

prosecution against the paratroopers who carried out those shootings. Let

me say this to you. It is also true... People here may have grown

up in terrible places. In 1972, I was a child, I was 12, a child was

her eyes, got flowers from the Army. The British Army acted with

impunity, I was told and now there is a term for unity. I don't want a

witchhunt, I want... You do want special investigations into British

Army veterans, don't you, as opposed to other parallel trees? --

paramilitaries. Do you support investigations into power,

paramilitaries? We want justice to be carried out. Do you like that and

said? Simon the big thing is that Sinn Fein want to go after British

Army veterans. Why not look after the majority of people who commit

the crimes? Anyone who done wrong should be prosecuted. There is

murders were terrorist. The British Army was not the majority. It is

interesting. I understand you coming back, but it's interesting what your

definition of terrorism is. This isn't the Republic of Ireland, the

IRA were terrorists. I wonder who the terrorists were on bloody Sunday

in Derry. APPLAUSE

I want to say this with the maximum respect because I want to make these

with you and build bridges to you. I want to say what you describe as

terrorism or loyalist terrorism was won by, directed by the British

governments and its agencies. APPLAUSE

There were 1118 deaths. Not previously reviewed or completed by

HET. All that, 500 were carried out by Republicans, 200 by loyalists and

300 by security forces. Jude security forces be treated any

differently than the 532 Republicans? To point, no one should

be treated differently. There is a crucial the to give British soldiers

and other people in the special Branch immunity for the actions and

no one should be given a special stages in relation to that. Surely

be Good Friday Agreement gives special stages to prisoners on early

release. Security forces did not get that. The genius of it was that. It

didn't give anyone immunity. It found a way through. My second point

is about the campaign. It didn't give early release to the security

forces. Let me finish this. Of course, because there are none in

jail. There are as many security forces who served time in jail as...

APPLAUSE . Simek we want the truth from state

and non-state actors alike. The British gunmen are covering up for

each other. -- we do this, I feel like people are waiting for victims

to die off and that is shameful. We don't want any amnesty or impunity

for any particular set of killers. We think they should all face the

same justice and be just as the victims one. The Lord Chief Justice

has put forward very good proposals on what you do do with a relatively

small amount of money because the fact is that the talk about issues

from the past, but we can pretend it isn't happening. The model deep

sleeping under the door every bit it didn't happen. -- Bullard will seep

through the door. -- blood. There are people in our society who want

to rewrite history. There is an attempt, particularly from

Republicans, to demonise the security forces, sanitise the IRA

and legitimise a terrorist campaign which brought decades of death,

destruction and pain and sorrow to so many towns, cities, villages and

homes across Northern Ireland and the attempt is being made

particularly in that you get this narrative that has been concocted by

Sinn Fein in regards to collusion and therefore, you can try all these

together, they become Article two compliant under the European

Convention of human rights and you get some sort of priority that shift

the blame to what the security forces, British Army and take away

from those responsible for more bloodshed. If you want to get to the

truth, we could start maybe with people who are key figures in Sinn

Fein spell. Colin out and telling us more about the information they

have. Sean Murray was in Brussels speaking about families waiting 46

years for justice. I thought that was ironic because 46 years ago this

month, or next month, you get to the point where three Scottish soldiers

were slaughtered on the northern outskirts of Belfast by members of

the provisional IRA. They were off duty, two were teenagers, no weapons

on them, taking down and got down in cold blood. Some of the Virgil and

during the troubles. The people responsible for that, people I'm

sure are in the republican movement to day you know who did it.

I would be glad of people did not clap at this because this is being

used as a very divisive issue to try to divide and it is about truth. We

will step up to the plate. Will the IRA participate in an independent

commission? Yes. How can they if they do not exist any more?

APPLAUSE I will tell you, I wasn't trying to be facetious. Here is the

genuine question behind that, you take the decision? Who is the leader

that takes the decision for the IRA to participate in the IRA doesn't

exist? Could you tell us the name of that person? I think these 2014

Stormont house agreement in trying to deal with the past, asked all the

participants that they would step up to the plate and play their part in

making sure that there was truth recovery and therefore justice as

well for people, and in that Republicans have said, and no doubt

it will be individual people, Republicans have said that we

believe and we will do our damnedest to make sure that Republicans pay.

Just this, don't... We will never agree on the past. The challenge is

can we agree on the future. I am willing to have a go at that but I

will not live in the past. Maybe you should not have walked out of

Government, then. Well, I am not going to turn my back on corruption.

I have to stop hitting you. I will be sitting over there next time. I

will not be turning a blind eye to allegations of corruption.

Allegations. Is Slab Murphy corruption? Actually, I think when

we look at it in the run, why we do not have a Government today, it is

because the behaviour of the DUP. It is because the DUP did not show

respect. It was a factual statement from me that we do not have a

Government today because your party walked out. That is a factual

statement. You could have negotiated, you could have insisted

during a negotiation but you walked out. You have to really be an expert

in arrogance and disrespected break the patience of Martin McGuinness,

the greatest peacemaker from the Republican side.

THEY ALL TALK OVER EACH OTHER APPLAUSE Gerry Adams was brought up

and she intervened. He put basically Michelle O'Neill

into her position, hand-picked and put in. He has set this up because

essentially... It is actually about placating the hard men of Sinn Fein.

Can I ask this question? For those members of the security forces who

have broken the law in the past, do you think they should get this

immunity or should they be investigated? I think that there has

to be a fair and equal and equitable system. I am not sure we will ever

get to the bottom of the Troubles. I am not sure we will ever get to the

bottom of these things, because whilst the Army may keep records,

there are not too many records kept by terrorist organisations. OK.

Young mind. I just want to say to Nelson, there is a book that was

written in 2014 and it details every crime committed by current serving

members of the art you see? I know there are victims on the other side

and I have respect for them but you have to accept that there are

victims on both sides and you don't seem to be able to respect. -- RUC.

There are people in both communities in Northern Ireland. Most certainly

there are people who've been the victims of all sorts of things, in

some cases perpetrated by people even from their own community. OK.

Right, another question, Joshua McDowell, what's your question?

Does Mike Nesbitt's decision to put a vote to the national parties mean

that ear-splitting loyalty? Do you agree with him? Every constituency

has its own circumstances. He has made that his position. Do you agree

with him? He did it from him -- his perspective. Of course he did it

from his perspective. Please answer my question. Do you agree with the

principle of a Unionist politician saying they are open to voting

second and third preference votes for a nationalist party? If that is

what they feel is right for their area. What our policy is is

obviously bought for the Unionist party first or second and then

transferred to those you trust to do the best for your community. No

matter what their position is on the staters of Northern Ireland? It is

about trying to get good Government for Northern Ireland. Do you ever

see yourself giving a second or third preference vote to a

nationalist party? I may well do. Perhaps not this time because in my

own constituency of Strangford, the last few seats will be amongst

Unionist. So why shouldn't a Unionist party always vote for a

Unionist party? Why shouldn't it? Because we are choosing who best to

run the Government. I have to say, from the two parties what we have

seen and particularly from the DUP, their track record on scandals, and

their incompetence and their failure in Government, I really struggle to

see how I can recommend them down the line? I will say to Nelson

tonight, you have criticised and your party has criticised Mike for

his decision, convince me, why should I put your track record

support a party like yours? APPLAUSE

Are we seeing the normalisation of politics in Northern Ireland? Are

people going to vote on policy as opposed to green and orange? That

would be something. It was interesting that Mike said he would

transfer to SDLP. Alliance has been working with that community for

years. We are completely excluded. It is interesting he did not speak

to the other party members before he made his announcement, but fair play

to him. Maybe we do need a difference in Northern Ireland. We

need a change and we need a for good.

APPLAUSE You are criticising Mike Nesbitt therefore not consulting his

colleagues. Has he ever called his colleagues balloons? To be honest, I

have been called a lot worse. I usually use the balloon in front of

my grandmother. So you are supporting your colleagues saying

that? I can understand revealing at the time and she has admitted that

she said it. She is honest about that. I do not have a problem with

that. I think there are others who could have used may stronger

language. It is a storm in a teacup. I think it was leadership Mike

Nesbitt and I think the fact is that he knows as most people do that the

border does not move a fraction in either direction on the basis of

this election or any other election that is not a border election and I

think that Mike knows... You are not going any closer to a united

Ireland? Well, the border is not moving. By the time being, we are

trying to change a Government that has delivered absolute dysfunction

and massive loss of public money and very little strategic plans. So a

vote for the SDLP is nothing to do with a united Ireland? Of course it

is. I thought you said it was nothing to do with it. No, I said it

does not move the border. Is that the only issues? Are we only going

to focus on the union? Nelson said that that was the only issue. He did

not say that. That is unfair. It is about replacing a rotten Government

and the way to do that is too broad for parties that can change the

Government and to board for parties that you can trust. Mike is right

and Philip is right that people will weigh up their local circumstances.

And you would give a second or third preference to a Unionist party? Yes.

I frequently do. To support the union? But that is not what I am

doing. I thought the people who will be good in Government. I do and I

always do it every election. Yes, I think it is a positive move that

Mike Nesbitt said he would transfer to the other side and I would like

to see more of that from other politicians in Northern Ireland, but

the only problem I have is that it contradicts his earlier decision two

years ago to team up with the DUP to defeat Alliance in east Belfast and

Sinn Fein in Fermanagh to protect his side. Could you ever see

yourself voting for a Unionist party, second or third preference?

This is what I am going to do. In the election. It is my advice to

everyone else. I will be voting for Unionist parties. I will not be

voting for any party that voted for Brexit. Hold on. We are tied for

time. I would really appreciate if you answered the question. Did you

ever see yourself voting for a Unionist party? I would like to take

it one election at a time. In this election, I will not be voting for

any Unionist party. Can you see yourself in your lifetime ever

putting for a Unionist party, second or third preference votes? I didn't

election by-election. Please answer the question. You like to present

yourself as progressive and you are for all, so it is a pretty relevant

question. If you looked at a Unionist politician and you got I

like what their policy is rather than the colour of their underpants.

Would you vote for them? If you find me a Unionist politician who is

against Brexit and against austerity then you might have me in. Even if

they were a Unionist? Absolutely. That is interesting. I think it

tells us a lot about the competence of Mike Nesbitt. When he couldn't

even manage first of all to get his own party behind him. Because Philip

referred to criticism by the members from the DUP. I have heard of much

criticism from members of the UUP of what Mike Nesbitt said and did.

Secondly, if you are going to do something like this, first double.

Euro on party and get them on board, and then secondly you would actually

try to get some reciprocation from the SDLP. He didn't even call up

Colum Eastwood to ask if he would do the same. It says something about

his competence. Mike said that we do not do election packs and we are not

descriptive then transfers. You do not have a pact with Mike Nesbitt?

No. Bought for Arlene and Michelle and get Theresa May. Because you

will be getting a mystery box. Mike hasn't offered as a pact and we have

not offered him. He has offered you a second preference Ford. Yes,

absolutely. And many SDLP voters and many members will get him on but

what we are collectively offering is an alternative Government. Let me

understand, I need you all to be quick. Do you think we are going

back to direct rule? There will be negotiations. I think it will take

more than a few weeks to have those negotiations. How long do you think

it will take? You have been around a long time. Do you think it is the

end of the year at least? I would certainly hope it would be shorter

than that but I would not attempt to put a time on it. There will be a

period where we will... Yes, probably, but who knows? Do you? We

are in politics to make the Government work for all of our

people. The DUP know what they have to do. Let's make Government work.

You have given no red lines to them, actually. They do not know what they

have to do. They are not in Government today. You're not in

Government either. We took the stand to put the DUP out of Government

because we are serious. Kellie? I will say to everyone, we are soon

going to go to a 75% budget and that will hurt every single person in

this country. We will have to close hospital down and lose teachers

because of this. It is time to get back round the table. OK, just to

tell the gallery tonight, Philip. I figured people bought for parties

that are going to deliver then we will not have a prolonged period of

direct rule. He has spoken about Tory austerity and yet he wants to

give them the reins of everything. Nelson at the G2 doc about

incompetence. APPLAUSE Ridiculous, unbelievable.

It worries me that you actually believe that. Just a minute. The

point is first of all that we have an enquiry set up by Mairtin

O'Muilleoir... 20 seconds. I prefer to wait for the outcome of an

enquiry rather than predetermined outcomes would seems to be the

position of some people. Both people knew about RHI for a year and did

not do anything until we found out about it.

THEY ALL TALK OVER EACH OTHER APPLAUSE We are done.

OK, that's all we have time for tonight.

We'll be back again on the telly on the 8th of March,

In the meantime, I'll be on the radio,

bringing you the latest election coverage right up

until the big vote on the 2nd of March.