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Welcome to our rolling news coverage of the momentous decisions that have | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
been taken in Scotland overnight. Scotland has voted No to | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
independence. We will be bringing you the latest reaction and events | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
as they happen. For those of you who have just switched on, we will have | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
a round-up of what has been happening in the last few hours. | :00:45. | :01:06. | |
Yes, 114,148. No, 139,788. This is the moment the referendum result was | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
confirmed. 140,000 voters in Fife would take the No support across the | :01:13. | :01:21. | |
finish line. Soon afterwards, the First Minister accepted the result | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
and praised the people of Scotland for an 86% turnout, but had this | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
message for his Westminster counterparts. On behalf of the | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
Scottish Government, I accept the result and pledged to work | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
constructively in the interests of Scotland and the rest of the United | :01:38. | :01:46. | |
Kingdom. The Unionist parties made promises lead in the campaign to | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
devolve more powers to Scotland. Scotland will expect these to be | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
ordered in rapid course. -- honoured. The Prime Minister went | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
further, announcing powers to be devolved to all four nations on the | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
same timescale as Scotland. Lord Smith of Kelvin, who so successfully | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
led Glasgow's Commonwealth Games, as agreed to oversee the process to | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
take forward these devolution commitments, with powers over tax, | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
spending and welfare agreed by November and draft legislation | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
published by January. Just as the people of Scotland will have more | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
power over their affairs, the people of England, Wales and Northern | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
Ireland must have a bigger say over theirs. This had been a long night | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
and it would be several hours before the picture would become clear. The | :02:41. | :02:52. | |
first result came in at 1:30am. Yes, 16,350. No, 19,036. The people of | :02:53. | :03:09. | |
Clackmannanshire voted No. 54% of them setting the tone for the night. | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
At the Better Together headquarters the mood was buoyant, no knowledge | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
of what was come, but confidence nonetheless. For those who supported | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
us and that great team of volunteers... | :03:24. | :03:37. | |
APPLAUSE All of the political parties who | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
work for this outcome, I want to say thank you. Among the first to | :03:42. | :03:49. | |
declare what the islands, with the Western Isles result coming in | :03:50. | :03:57. | |
Gaelic. The language might have been different, but the result was the | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
same. The campaign's chairman appeared to set all. On the streets | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
of Glasgow, the initial losing streak did not damage the party | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
atmosphere. Hundreds were in George Square to mark an important day in | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
Scotland's history. Spirits were high. Dundee was the first to go to | :04:19. | :04:28. | |
Yes. It was decisive and made the race neck and neck. Then the biggest | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
moment of the night when Yes took the lead. For five minutes, the glum | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
faces were gone and it was high fives. The Yes stood at -- Yes | :04:39. | :04:57. | |
campus stood at 52%. No, 70,039. Feeling almost broken-hearted. I | :04:58. | :05:06. | |
feel that the British establishment has mobilised the big guns. | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
Mobilised the bankers, the billionaires, supermarkets, there | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
might have been corralled into Number 10 together warnings to | :05:18. | :05:25. | |
frighten people -- to give warnings. The 32 counts went off almost | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
flawlessly. Apart from in Dundee, where there was a fire alarm. A few | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
brave police officers guarded the ballot papers. The majority of valid | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
thoughts cast yesterday by the people of Scotland in response to | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
the referendum question should Scotland be an independent country | :05:45. | :05:55. | |
were in favour of No. By the time Mary Pitcaithly made her | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
declaration, it was long over. For some, it was proving too match. | :06:00. | :06:08. | |
Shortly after 5pm, the BBC called the referendum with the people of | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
Scotland rejecting independence. It is the end of chapter one but the. | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
Read is still to be written. -- full story. | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
I am joined by our political correspondent. The turnout was | :06:24. | :06:33. | |
almost 85%. Extraordinary. Other than the phenomenal result, it is a | :06:34. | :06:41. | |
story of huge turnout. Huge voting engagement, which we knew about and | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
were expecting a turnout of more than 80%. Some of the smaller | :06:46. | :07:02. | |
islands like Orkney and Shetland were quite high as well. To have | :07:03. | :07:09. | |
more than 80% in an election like this shows how important the | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
Scottish voters saw this, as an issue not of party politics but | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
about the future of the nation. It has proved a useful and exceedingly | :07:19. | :07:29. | |
popular project. To bring people up to date, the final result was pretty | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
decisive for No, but was a much bigger tab each vote then anyone | :07:35. | :07:41. | |
would have expected -- bigger Yes vote. The last opinion poll which | :07:42. | :07:52. | |
was done last night, 55 for No and 45 for Yes, which is what the | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
eventual outcome was. It does not explain the narrowing of the opinion | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
polls we saw over the last couple of weeks which persuaded the No | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
campaign to come out and offer those further powers. Had those opinion | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
poll is not taken, perhaps we would not have got those promises. David | :08:10. | :08:17. | |
Cameron has said it will mean change for England, Wales and Northern | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
Ireland as well. To get onto issues we will be discussing through the | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
morning, we have gone from last night waiting to see if Scotland was | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
going to leave the United Kingdom to this morning a debate about English | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
MPs being allowed to cheat England as if it was a separate country. -- | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
treat. The reason David Cameron had to come out and say what he did, | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
that the other parts of the UK would benefit from Scotland's vote, was | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
that there were so many Conservative backbenchers promising to derail the | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
proposals to give further powers to Scotland as a result of this vote, | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
not least people calling for an English Parliament. David Cameron | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
was promising to resolve the West Lothian question as a result of that | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
unhappiness with him going ahead with promising further powers for | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
Scotland when I had not been a vote on this issue. It is not just | :09:16. | :09:24. | |
England. The message from the Prime Minister and the Labour Party seems | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
to be, we hear you, Scotland, we promise we will do what we said. It | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
was interesting the fact that David Cameron said as much as he did this | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
morning. There is a little bit of politics involved and the sense in | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
which David Cameron had to try to seize the agenda and the initiative. | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
If he did not, he would have left a background for the SNP to demand | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
more powers. David Cameron had to come out with something quite big | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
and radical. There is a long way between saying it and delivering it. | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
There is an awful lot of hurdles to get through, a very tight timetable. | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
This has to be done in some form by the election, otherwise the SNP will | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
go into the election and say, those people let you down. He has to bring | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
the SMP on board and the other three parties and he has made some | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
promises to civic society as well that might SNP. There is no | :10:26. | :10:34. | |
agreement even among the Unionist parties on what these accelerated | :10:35. | :10:36. | |
powers should be. No agreement on the form either. If you look at what | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
the Liberal Democrats have suggested, talking about federalism, | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
it has to be something that is balanced. Federalism is one of the | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
answers that leaves a balanced UK with each constituent part of the UK | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
having some responsibility and the centre having responsibility as | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
well, but how you work out what federalism is within the next six | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
months, I have no idea. It is not just about bringing on board the | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
SNP. This involves the whole of the United Kingdom. It is no longer just | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
about Scotland. It is not unreasonable, many Conservative | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
members of Parliament saying, hold on, we cannot just have some stitch | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
up between Ed Miliband and David Cameron which is forced through | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
parliament giving Scotland this, that and the other, we want a say. | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
Over the last couple of days there were Conservatives saying it was | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
unconstitutional to give further powers. And that this was a deal | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
stitched up by the three pro-union parties to try to win the referendum | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
in Scotland. They have a battle on their hands but David Cameron's | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
words this morning will have gone some way to try to placate some of | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
his backbenchers, although not people like Nigel Farage who has | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
said he thinks that David Cameron's statement is not going far enough | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
and he is not dealing with the English question. David Cameron was | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
mentioning the West Lothian question which is the bugbear of lots of | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
English Conservative MPs and others. It will be interesting to see what | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
they propose on that because so far no one has, with a firm we to solve | :12:26. | :12:40. | |
that. Let me bring in two guests. The former First Minister, you must | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
be delighted. Given what your politics are, are you delighted? I | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
would not go as far as that, jersey I was delighted. There has been a | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
political battle and the No campaign has won. Scotland has given the | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
world a masterclass in terms of how campaigns should be operated and | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
there was a huge Yes vote. There is a benefit for everyone. We have | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
discussed this previously. You said you were going to vote No. Did you? | :13:16. | :13:25. | |
I bought my soul earlier. Yes, I did. -- bore. The biggest success | :13:26. | :13:38. | |
story was Scotland itself in one of the interesting points that has been | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
referred to already, the Prime Minister has made a statement, he is | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
right to go into the breach and make some comment, but one of the most | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
divisive issues at Westminster is English votes for English laws | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
because it is not an cancer to the West Lothian question -- answer. | :13:58. | :14:05. | |
What he might be doing, and I heard Douglas Alexander avoid the | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
question, I do not think Labour will support that because you would be | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
the barring 41 Labour MPs from every issue. | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
Let's say there is a Labour government after the next election | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
and a Tory majority in England, every time that government wanted to | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
pass something to do with the health service in England, it could be | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
blocked? Exactly. But the other point is that it is not just | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
Scotland's issue. It is a UK issue. What it needs is certainly to honour | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
the commitment made to Scotland but not to rush at it. The devolution | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
Bill... Except they are rushing out at! Exactly. Devolution went through | :14:51. | :14:58. | |
the proper convention and a whole range of people, it went through. It | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
has to be good legislation and it also has to be about saying, that | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
can be done properly, but then he has to open up for a sensible debate | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
on what happens in Wales, England and Northern Ireland. Don't run so | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
fast at it even if the First Minister is pressing, because at the | :15:21. | :15:22. | |
end of the day, it is what Scotland needs to go forward, not to get the | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
three traditional Unionist parties out of a bit of panic-buying. Gordon | :15:29. | :15:36. | |
Wilson, is that it? Is this it for maybe not the lifetime of people who | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
were born yesterday, but certainly the lifetime of old buffers like you | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
and me? I'm glad you associate me with your youth! Think last night I | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
was disappointed. But as a veteran, bruised and battered from previous | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
encounters, I had high hopes and low expectations, because I thought this | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
was a very early referendum and Scotland is still in transition from | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
being British to being Scottish. And I've taken some heart, and I think | :16:07. | :16:15. | |
quite obviously the No campaign will be jubilant. They have won and kept | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
Scotland within the United Kingdom. Look at it the other way. Scotland | :16:21. | :16:28. | |
has always palled around about 30 to 35% for independence and this | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
referendum on that basis would have been a gamble. -- pulled around. Now | :16:33. | :16:43. | |
we are up to 45% and two industrial areas have voted yes. 45% is a | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
good, solid platform for take-off. Now, I am not suggesting at all that | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
this will occur quickly. But we are into Harold Macmillan territory. | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
Remember when he was wielding the axe in desperation in his Cabinet. | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
He also said politicians can never control the future. It may well be | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
that it is not the Scots who will be given independence, it is the | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
English who will propel the Scots into independence. It all depends on | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
the attitude in the South. The intelligent ones, the statesman, | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
will probably want to buy Scotland with some powers. There are plenty | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
of non-statesmen there and people who look at it from a little | :17:31. | :17:40. | |
Englander point of view. But it is a point that the financier raised in | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
an article in Financial Times. That's say David Cameron get this | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
referendum on Europe and England decides to leave the European Union | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
and Scotland votes substantially to stay. If ever there was a time to | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
have a referendum on independence for Scotland, it would be then, | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
because Scotland had decided to go in a completely different -- | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
different direction from the rest of the UK. Clearly nobody is going to | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
commit themselves to another referendum in our lifetime | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
generation. Although I noticed a wicked smile creeping on Gordon | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
Wilson's face when I mentioned that! Well, he has been involved. But | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
let's take the point of the 2015 elections to Westminster and in the | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
2016 elections. The interesting point about moving... I mean, the | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
powers on offer are not about home rule or federalism or devo max. But, | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
for example, to be provocative, if we had a federal system, maybe | :18:42. | :18:44. | |
Scotland would like to say to David Cameron in the years ahead, I tell | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
you what, if you are going to have a debate and a referendum on in and | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
out of Europe, I tell you what the deal is. The whole of the UK has the | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
majority for coming out but, by the way, each of the four countries will | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
have a veto, so we cannot come out of the EU on the back of English | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
votes alone. What do you mean? So England votes to leave the EU and | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland or any one of them can say no? It is | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
a twin devolution, which is not shared, and actually getting to a | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
point where Scotland has a real say. -- it is between devolution. But | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
that is what you are saying? England could vote no to the European Union | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
and Scotland could vote to stay in and veto it? We are at the early | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
days of debating a future form of federalism. But what would be the | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
reaction in Scotland, which is proven in opinion polls to be more | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
pro-Europe, if, in 2017, we decide to exit from the European Union on | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
the back of English votes? If that was not a basis for further | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
discussion and strife up here, I don't know what would be. We have to | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
be more creative. That is why I'm against the Prime Minister | :20:01. | :20:02. | |
suggesting we have to go with him to implement some powers for Scotland, | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
we might do a bit of England and their Wales and then Northern | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
Ireland. This does not make sense in lawmaking but it does open up the | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
idea that Scotland's strength has been improved as part of this | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
referendum campaign and we should not be easily led into a situation | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
of just minor powers when, in fact, there is a bigger price to be had. | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
Whatever you make of the details of that, this idea of creative thinking | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
- that would have to come from the Scottish Government as well rather | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
than banging on all the time about how we need independence. It would | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
be coming up with some ideas for how to make the UK work better and how | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
to make Scotland work better within it? The more I look at the sclerotic | :20:45. | :20:51. | |
United Kingdom, it is beginning to remember Austria-macro hungry before | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
the dissolution. It is confusing... -- Austria and Hungary. I am sure | :20:57. | :21:06. | |
the Czechs in the Austro-Hungarian Empire were quite keen to rule as | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
well. I don't think the British state in its current form is capable | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
of reformation. That is what I am saying. It is a post-imperial | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
situation and England controls it, and if you go to a federation, and | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
heel I disagree, there is no way that the nation of England, powerful | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
and strong as it is, would ever agree to a veto from the minor | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
Celtic countries. -- and here I disagree. We are about to guarantee | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
a macro what Alistair Darling is saying. Where we have a strong | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
constitutional arrangement and power, but also people want to see | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
the world in which they live change. They want more jobs, more secure | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
funding, better education for their children, and, above all, | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
opportunities for their children and grandchildren. We believe we can do | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
that in Scotland but we do it best by working with the rest of the UK. | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
And it isn't just constitutions that we should be concerned with. | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
Although we have made a clear commitment to the people of Scotland | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
to strengthen the powers of the Scottish Parliament, and we must | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
live on that. One of the strengths I think over the last couple of years, | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
as Joanne said, is that we have shown we can work with other | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
parties, and, critically, work with many people of no party at all. One | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
of the most encouraging things about last night was not only the fact | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
that the turnout was in the high 80s and in some parts of Scotland, | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
90% of the electorate voted, but people were engaged in this argument | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
in a way I have not seen throughout my political life. And it does | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
demonstrate to me two things. As I say, we can work with other | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
political parties where we agree with them, and where we disagree as | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
well, and of course we have to argue these points, but where we agree we | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
should work with each other. But also if you have a popular cause and | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
a good case to make, then you can infuse people, which is something I | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
think all the political parties need to learn, our own included. If we | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
can get people infused about our cause and about how we can improve | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
and make things better, then we can make sure what we saw last night is | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
not a one-off. -- people infused. But perhaps it is the start of | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
integration in politics throughout the UK and in Scotland. It brings me | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
to my final point. Yes, we have worked together, and the three | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
political parties have entered an agreement to deliver legislation to | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
strengthen the Scottish Parliament, and we must deliver that on the | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
timescale that was agreed, but of course we do have differences with | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
the other parties on many, many issues, and in just nine months | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
time, this country will go to a general election to choose the | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
government for the next five years. And every single one of us needs to | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
be out there hungry for that change, showing weekend and straight to | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
people that the change they need for jobs, to make sure we can improve | :24:08. | :24:20. | |
standards of living -- showing we can deliver to people. You can keep | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
it going for another nine months at least following these 24 as we move | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
towards another general election. I believe that not only can we win the | :24:32. | :24:40. | |
next election and we -- but that we will. I look forward to Ed Miliband | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
speaking to us later. Thank you. Friends, I want to start off by | :24:44. | :24:54. | |
paying the warmest tribute to Alistair Darling, because after the | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
2010 2000 election, you could have taken the easy way out. He could | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
have decided to take a step back. -- the 2010 election. He played one of | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
the most important roles in keeping this country together. Alistair, | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
thank you. Thank you for what you did. | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
APPLAUSE And I also want to thank every | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
member of team Labour for what they did. I want to thank Johann Lamont | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
for the brilliant job she did, I want to thank Jim Murphy, Gordon | :25:24. | :25:30. | |
Brown, Douglas Alexander, every person who played that role in this | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
campaign. Let us applaud them today. APPLAUSE | :25:35. | :25:41. | |
But there is somebody... There is another set of people I want to | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
think even more than that, and that is you. Because this would not have | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
happened without you. Thank you for the street stalls, thank you for the | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
phone banking, thank you for the leaflets, thank you for pounding the | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
streets in rain and shine. And, friends, you will be able to tell | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
your children and your grandchildren that you helped keep our country | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
together, a historic achievement, and let us acknowledge it today. | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
APPLAUSE Now, what was this a vote for? What | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
was this a vote for? This was a vote for solidarity and social justice. | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
This was a vote for our National Health Service, this was a vote for | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
our welfare state, this was a vote for no because we know we are better | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
together. And I want to say something also today as Alistair | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
acknowledged to all of the people who voted yes. This Labour Party is | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
determined to show over the coming years that we can be the vehicle for | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations for a better life for | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
you, a better life for Scotland and a better life for the whole of the | :26:53. | :26:54. | |
United Kingdom. APPLAUSE | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
Now, friends, whether people voted no or yes in this referendum, let us | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
be absolutely clear. This was a vote for change. Change doesn't ends | :27:08. | :27:15. | |
today, change begins today. Because we know our country needs to | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
change. We know our country needs to change in the waiters governed and | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
we know our country needs to change in who it is governed for. -- in the | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
way it is governed. As Alistair said, we will be leather on strong | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
powers for a stronger Scottish Parliament, a stronger Scotland, -- | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
we will deliver, and I know all party leaders will meet their | :27:36. | :27:37. | |
commitments to deliver on that promise. | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
APPLAUSE And we will also meet the desire for | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
change across England, across Wales, across the whole of the United | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
Kingdom. Devolution is not just a good idea for Scotland and Wales, it | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
is a good idea for England and, indeed, for Northern Ireland, as it | :27:57. | :28:03. | |
already is, too. And we must also meet the thirst for change in | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
reforming the whole of our country in who it works for. Because I heard | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
from people as I went around this campaign people talking about | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
stronger powers for Scotland, yes, but I also heard people saying, how | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
can my life get better? How can my son or daughter get a job? How can | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
we deal with insecurity at work? How can we build a better future for our | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
children and grandchildren? We know those were the questions people were | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
asking. They were not just asking questions about the Constitution and | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
the way our politics works. They were asking about whether our | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
country works for them, and they were telling us, and they are not | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
just telling us this in Scotland, they are telling us this throughout | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
our country, that our country only works for a tiny, elite few at the | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
top, and this Labour Party knows that must change, and we will change | :28:55. | :28:56. | |
it. APPLAUSE | :28:57. | :29:05. | |
Friends, the last few weeks have been about keeping our country | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
together, the last few months, the two years of this campaign. The next | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
eight months are about how we change our country together. And you know, | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
we need a party that can speak for the whole of the United Kingdom, for | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
every party, for every part of the United Kingdom, for every set of | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
people in the United Kingdom. There is a party that can do that, | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
friends. That is the Labour Party. That is our party. And this is our | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
responsibility in the months ahead - let us be able to tell our children, | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
to tell our grandchildren that we did not just keep our country | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
together, we changed our country together. That is our mission, that | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
can be our achievement. Thank you so much for what you did, now let's go | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
on and show the people of the whole of the United Kingdom how we intend | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
to change our country. Thank you very much. | :30:06. | :30:07. | |
APPLAUSE Well, let's go to the news now. | :30:08. | :30:17. | |
Thank you very much, it has been a momentous night, Scotland has | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
decided, and that decision is no. It is clear that the majority of the | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
people voting have voted no to the referendum question. | :30:31. | :30:38. | |
Well, the turnout was more than 84% of those registered to votes, the | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
highest in any UK election since 1951. Glasgow, Scotland's largest | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
council, voted in favour of independence, with Dundee, West | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
Dunbartonshire and North Lanarkshire also voting yes. But there were big | :30:54. | :31:00. | |
wins for the No vote in Aberdeen. The result in Fife took them across | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
the finishing line, the margin of victory for the Better Together | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
campaign was 55-45%, bigger than that anticipated by the final | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
opinion polls. First Minister Alex Salmond conceded defeat but said | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
Scotland would expect the three main British parties to make good on | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
their promises of greater powers being devolved to the Scottish | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
Parliament. Well, we don't seem to have that for | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
you just at the moment. The Prime Minister said, though, that the | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
result had been clear and that the debate had been settled for a | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
generation. David Cameron said, the United Kingdom has come together to | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
move forward. Well, I will be back later on, back now to Gordon. | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
Thanks, Rona. We are going to go to Downing Street in a moment, but very | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
quickly, I wanted to ask you, you were watching Ed Miliband there and | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
shaking your head as if you were in complete despair. I do not think it | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
was complete despair, but look, this is an interesting election for the | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
new leader of the Labour Party, and I respect that. England and Scotland | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
are politically diverging, so the agenda in England has to be | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
different from what attracts voters in Scotland, but that said, it is | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
important to note one thing he said, that they do not all agree on, you | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
know, the powers, on where the future is holding. I would rather if | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
Ed said, look, the No campaigners won and they take credit for | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
victory, but what he has to do is pick Scotland into this wider | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
constitutional review that is being talked about. For example, my fear | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
is that in terms of the English votes for English laws, Labour | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
cannot possibly sign up to that. What we need over the next few | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
weeks, and I'm not expecting him to do it, but we need to explain to | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
people, the powers that have been put forward, the timeline, a massive | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
amount of work has got to be done on that to make sure that we don't just | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
carry on with these powers knowing that we cannot make the unrealistic | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
deadlines that have been imposed. I think Ed was in a difficult | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
position, he has come to Scotland to show solidarity with the party and | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
the country, that is to the good. But at times he's not well advised | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
in relation to what is happening, and the mood in, which is so | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
crucial, showing that degree of Scottish and as bad as vital as we | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
move forward. All right, we will come back to you in a moment. -- | :33:36. | :33:45. | |
Scottishness that is vital. David, we have heard the Prime | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
Minister this morning, I do not know if you could hear what Henry was | :33:49. | :33:51. | |
saying about Ed Miliband, what is the feeling down there? I think the | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
overwhelming view down here, actually, Gordon, is one of relief. | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
The Prime Minister came out a couple of hours ago and made his | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
statement, a lengthy statement in duration and also in content as | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
well. He is well aware that to some extent one problem has been solved, | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
Scotland remains within the Union, but he is also aware as well that | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
everything does change from today. It has been a mentor is night, the | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
status quo will not continue, there is going to be further | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
constitutional reform. -- momentous. He said there would have | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
to be change in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and he addressed | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
the question of English votes, whereby a lot of Conservative MPs | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
are worried that if Scotland gets more powers but Scottish MPs still | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
have the same voting rights, the so-called West Lothian question, and | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
there is a growing head of steam on Tory backbenches, but as far as they | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
are concerned, there should be English votes for English matters, | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
where only English MPs are allowed to vote 1 English matters. What we | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
have seen, I think, over the past 24 hours is one issue to some extent | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
resolved, are you Scotland is not going to leave the United Kingdom, | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
Scotland is not going to be independent. That solves one | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
problem, but David Cameron knows that he has to see the political | :35:13. | :35:28. | |
initiative. -- sieze. I wonder, David, whether you feel there is an | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
awareness there of some of the matter is that I think Henry McLeish | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
was trying to raise, that there is a possibility that the political | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
parties are now just thinking, thank heavens that is out of the road, we | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
have got a general election coming up, and I think what Henry is time | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
to say is that there may be a lack of sensitivity to realising that | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
something quite important as happened in Scotland, and while the | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
matters towards more devolution are important, we are not just straight | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
into a general election campaign. That is the danger. First of all, | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
there is huge relief in Downing Street as to what happened last | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
night. I think there would be some whispering in the Prime Minister's | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
here, look, it is over, we can move towards the general election, look | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
at that in the future. I think other people are saying very loudly to | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
David Cameron, you would ignore what has happened at your Parolo, hence | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
why I think David Cameron has been keen to say that they will be | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
bringing up draft legislation before the election. -- at your peril. They | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
will not get it through the House of Commons and the House of Lords | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
before the next general election, but in May 2015 whoever is in this | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
place behind they will have to act on that. That is not to say that he | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
would ever is in power it is going to be easy for them. As I said, | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
there are many backbenchers who are unhappy with what is being proposed. | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
-- whoever is in power. If the Conservative backbenchers in the | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
House of Commons are a nappy, think about the House of Lords, who are | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
there to discuss constitutional reform. They will go through it with | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
a fine tooth comb. There is no guarantee that whatever government | :37:14. | :37:15. | |
at Westminster would want to get through in constitutional terms, | :37:16. | :37:18. | |
that the House of Lords would make it easy for them. It is a very | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
difficult subject, and it could take perhaps longer than some people are | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
thinking. We are seeing a change, David, in the iconography. I was | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
almost taken aback by singer Alistair Darling standing in front | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
of a sign that said Scottish Labour, rather than Better Together. I | :37:35. | :37:41. | |
noticed that he did not go out of his way to thank the people who were | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
involved in Better Together from the Liberal Democrats for the | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
Conservatives. It was entirely aimed at the Labour Party, so suddenly we | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
are in a different mode now. Yes, we are. Right up until he is ours came | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
out this morning, it was Better Together on one side and Yes | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
Scotland on the other. -- until the results came out. We are now in the | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
run-up to a general election, this contest is over and done with. Party | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
politics is bound to reiterate in Scotland, as it will in the rest of | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
the United Kingdom, which is why I think, over the hours and weeks, you | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
will see English Conservative backbenchers perhaps saying things | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
that the party leadership would not think is particularly helpful on | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
constitutional reform. But I think it would be very naive to say that | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
whatever has happened, all the momentous changes that have happened | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
over the last 24 hours, that party politics will not play a huge role | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
in that. Added to that, we are in the run-up to a general election, | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
which means, A, it is going to be very congregated, B, party politics | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
will come to the fore in this, and it is whoever wins the general | :38:51. | :38:53. | |
election in 2015 will have to try and find a way through on this, the | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
most thorniest of issues. David, thank you very much for now. Andrews | :38:59. | :39:05. | |
outside the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood. -- Andrew is. Are you | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
outside or inside? I am inside but outside the parliament, inside the | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
studio here. Olli Rehn is a little more quiet now, there was an | :39:16. | :39:22. | |
all-night vigil. -- Holyrood. There is meant to be a Yes rally, whatever | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
happens, and I'm joined in the studio now by the principal officer | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
at the US Consulate here in Edinburgh, thank you for joining me. | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
You were an observer at Ingliston, what have you made of this whole | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
process and the result? Well, I want to congratulate the people of | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
Scotland on having conducted one of the most thorough and thoughtful | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
public debates of our time. I think that the high level of public | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
interest, the depth of the debate, as well as the extraordinary turnout | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
that we saw yesterday, real proof that a peaceful and democratic | :40:01. | :40:02. | |
process can tackle the toughest issues. In the United States, of | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
course we respect the outcome and we look forward to continuing our close | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
relationship and ties with the government and peoples of the United | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
Kingdom. There will be some very relieved people waking up in | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
Washington, DC this morning, of course, President Obama tweeted | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
during the week that he hoped the UK would remain strong, robust and | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
united. Was it right for the president to step in like that? He | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
had an intervention earlier in the campaign. This is a matter for Scots | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
to decide, and I think what we saw yesterday, across the board in | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
Scotland, was a lot of people taking their responsibility very seriously, | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
weighing up the issues and voting, and that is to be congratulated and | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
applauded. I say people in Washington will be relieved, because | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
if Scotland had voted to become independent, Trident would have left | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
Scottish waters, the Trident nuclear submarines, so the defence | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
department will be breathing a sigh of relief. There would be a lot of | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
hypothetical issues to tackle, but the people of Scotland have made | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
their decision, and we respect that. What did you make of the campaign? | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
Because of course there Yes campaign have often followed what has | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
happened in US politics, the tricks of the trade from the first Obama | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
campaign in 2008 came over, the second campaign too. What did you | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
make of the process and perhaps the use of these new US election | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
tactics? As a diplomat, I am not an expert on election tactics, but what | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
I will say is that we saw an extraordinary level of engagement on | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
all sides, from the campaigns, from civil society, from grassroots and | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
people just really wanting to get involved in the depth of the | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
debate, it was something that we observed on all sides as being | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
something that all Scots can be proud of. And when you go back to | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
the US and you tell them about this referendum, I mean, it sounds like | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
you are pretty impressed by what has happened, particularly the peaceful | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
way, and I suppose the US will take that message to the rest of the | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
world that people can conduct a process like this in a very | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
peaceful, democratic way. I think, as you mentioned, I observed the | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
vote yesterday in Edinburgh, West Lothian and Fife, and I can | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
certainly attest to how peaceful and civilised things work. And I think | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
that certainly with an issue this importance to the people of | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
Scotland, the peaceful way that everyone conducted themselves | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
yesterday is really to be very much applauded. OK, thank you very much | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
for coming in to speak to us, that is it from Holyrood just now, back | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
to you in the studio in Glasgow. Nicholas Witchell, the royal | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
correspondent, is outside Balmoral. I imagine they did not have the no | :42:48. | :42:55. | |
thank you placards nailed up on the trees at Balmoral, but there must | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
surely be a sense of relief. Yeah, I think that is antennae of Leander | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
absolutely true, and I think in common with a great many people the | :43:06. | :43:13. | |
Queen will be glad it is all over. -- that is undeniably and absolutely | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
true. Privately, she will be feeling relieved that Scotland is not going | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
to separate from the United Kingdom, that the United Kingdom is not going | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
to break. I think she would have found that privately very difficult | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
to deal with, but she will keep their feelings to herself. She would | :43:30. | :43:31. | |
have accepted the decision which ever way it went, that was her | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
constitutional duty, but she and her officials will today once the dust | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
to settle, they will want the politicians do have an opportunity | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
to say what they wish to say in response to the result, and then | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
what we expect - we don't know for certain - but at some point later | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
today there will be a short written statement from the Queen, and I | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
would imagine it would focus on the fact that this has been Scotland's | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
decision, I would imagine it would focus on the fact, at the Palace has | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
said before, a decision for the people of Scotland, but the decision | :44:07. | :44:08. | |
having been taken now, expressing the hope that the people of Scotland | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
will come together, we'll move on, and the divisiveness which I think | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
undoubtedly has been apparent during the campaign, and which I think has | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
been a cause of some considerable concern to the Queen, she will | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
perhaps expressed the hope that the divisiveness will be put to one | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
side, and in Scotland's interests, that Scotland will now be able to | :44:32. | :44:32. | |
move forward. Thank you very much. What are the | :44:33. | :44:43. | |
bankers making of it? Is it a case of Armageddon postponed if not | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
abolished? Well, that very much feels like the case this morning. | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
Welcome to a very drizzly Edinburgh financial district! Are enjoyed by | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
the chair of Scottish financial enterprise. How are you feeling this | :44:59. | :45:06. | |
morning following the concerns of the financial industry had? Many of | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
the uncertainties that would have been created by a Yes vote we can | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
forget about. So in that sense it is good to look forward and make sure | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
we will be doing so within the frameworks with which we are | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
accustomed. That is part of the UK, the European Union and all of the | :45:25. | :45:26. | |
stability which comes with that. Having said that, there will be more | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
of a debate about Scottish powers and the Prime Minister spoke about | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
it again this morning, and I was very encouraged indeed by hearing | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
John Swinney talking about how he and his colleagues would play a full | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
part in that as well. So we think there is a lot to look forward to | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
and take advantage of. For the financial services sector in the | :45:49. | :45:50. | |
ticket, are their powers you would be keen to see Scotland get its | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
hands on? Some of those have already been trailed around income tax. I | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
think they do allow ministers in the Scottish Government and Parliament | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
to set some of the parameters within which Scotland can be a competitive | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
environment within the UK. There is the opportunity there for | :46:10. | :46:12. | |
differentiation and for Scotland to carve out a particular position as a | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
very competitive part of the UK, and we think there are business | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
opportunities in that. Over the last couple of weeks we have heard from a | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
lot of financial services companies and banks about contingency plans | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
and they are obviously not needed any more. You get those plans and | :46:29. | :46:38. | |
have to make them when you are faced with situations you cannot plan for. | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
I suppose in a sense now we're looking forward to thinking about | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
what is going on in Brussels and other places now that we have put | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
this very important decision behind us. RBS this morning saying they are | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
still hugely committed to their operations in Scotland. That must be | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
echoed across the financial services community here in Edinburgh? | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
Absolutely. As I say, had we had a Yes vote, they would have been lots | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
of questions, but now we can get on with doing what we do best, which is | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
competing internationally in a very difficult and competitive market. | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
Thank you. It would have been a very different picture here this morning | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
and those contingency plans would have kicked in with serious business | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
meetings going on. But people are going about their daily business as | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
usual, getting their morning coffee and heading into the office for the | :47:32. | :47:33. | |
rest of the day. Thank you. Let's get the latest news | :47:34. | :47:42. | |
from Rhona. Thank you again. Scotland has voted and the decision | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
has been made, and that decision is no. The margin of victory for the | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
Better Together campaign was 55% to 45%, bigger than that anticipated by | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
the final opinion polls. Prime minister David Cameron welcomed the | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
result and said there was now a chance to change how people across | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
the UK were governed, and said the three prounion parties at | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
Westminster would deliver on further pledges of power for the Scottish | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
Parliament. The First Minister, Alex Salmond, said he accepted the | :48:13. | :48:15. | |
verdict of the people and called on everyone to do the same. He called | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
on the three main British parties to make good on their promises of | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
greater powers being devolved to the Scottish Parliament. The Yes | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
campaign won in only four local authority areas out of a total of | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
32. They were Glasgow, Dundee, North Lanarkshire and West Dumbarton show. | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
Now it is time to go to the weather, and here is the latest. | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
It is still cloudy, especially further across the East down to | :48:43. | :48:49. | |
Aberdeenshire and across down to the Borders, and while it is still | :48:50. | :48:52. | |
cloudy here, we will see brighter cells developing, especially across | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
the south-west, and across the great Glen area. Temperatures could go up | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
to 20 or 21 degrees, but widely around the mid-teens. The patchy | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
rain will spread further towards the East through the evening, allowing | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
temperatures to fall to around seven or eight with those clear skies, but | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
elsewhere, 11-13. Still cloudy across the south of the country but | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
gradually clearing away with that rain, clearing the ball despite the | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
afternoon. More in the way of sunshine across the central belt but | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
temperatures in the midst high teens and more of a north-westerly | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
breeze. On Sunday, fine and dry conditions with high pressure firmly | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
in place. Lots of sunshine in store and temperatures a few degrees lower | :49:40. | :49:41. | |
but temperatures still at 15 or 16. I will be back with a longer news | :49:42. | :49:51. | |
summary later. Thank you. Lots of sunshine! You | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
can't argue with that! Let's go back to Andrew at Holyrood. Yes, I am | :49:57. | :50:03. | |
joined in the studio by star of stage and screen and famous yes | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
supporter Brian Cox. Good morning. Thank you for coming on. What is | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
your reaction? You must be pretty disappointed? I'm disappointed but | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
also proud. It is a curious split I have got because I think we have | :50:18. | :50:24. | |
done incredibly well. The turnout, 87%. The winner is social democracy. | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
There is no question about that. We have shown that. It is the politics | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
of the people as opposed to the politics of the parliamentarians, | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
and I think the political establishment of Westminster is | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
really, really now under severe scrutiny and has been shown somewhat | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
wanting. It is a broken thing which needs to be fixed. But I think the | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
people have shown, and the people of Scotland in particular, have shown | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
whether it is a yes or no, it is a wonderful example of the Scots | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
character, a costly yeses were impassioned and this difference and | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
the noes kept it to their chest in a kind of poker game, and are very | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
good at that! It is a rather good feeling at the end of it. Excuse me | :51:11. | :51:21. | |
while I laugh at my sleeve right now! I will believe it when it is | :51:22. | :51:33. | |
there. The idea... We want to devo max start with and we weren't | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
allowed to have it. Then Cameron comes up with the three Amigos and | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
they arrive on their horses with their sombreros and kilts, and they | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
say, oh, we will give it to you, you have this. And we are going, well, | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
we didn't ask for it before. He has a problem with his backbenchers | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
because they are not very happy about it and the Labour Party will | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
be happy about what Cameron wants to give, so it is a long road. They | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
want to get a white paper by March. Good luck, is all I can say! What | :52:02. | :52:07. | |
did you make of the Yes campaign? It was a big movement and went into | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
every community in Scotland. You saw it. It almost got there in the end? | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
It did. It did incredibly well because there was an intellectual | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
rigour about it. People like Pat Kay, Vivienne Westwood, for gods | :52:24. | :52:30. | |
sake! Rhona Cameron, sorry, rather. It was a fantastic and pain. I have | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
nothing but praise for the Yes campaign. Those lads and lasses | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
really worked their butts off, they really did. And I think we have a | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
lot to be proud of. We galvanise the country. You know, they completely | :52:45. | :52:52. | |
underestimated it. Underestimated the whole campaign. They totally | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
underestimated the power of Westminster. -- the power, | :52:56. | :53:04. | |
Westminster. They were just thinking, those little Scots. People | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
will remember this for a long, long time to come. So, thinking of the | :53:08. | :53:15. | |
nationalist campaign, and we were speaking about your own Braveheart | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
earlier. It is very emotive and kind of hairs on the back of the next | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
stuff. You a kind of part of that first night you have to that | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
forward? But I am not a nationalist. I am an independent. It | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
is not about nationalism, it is about independence. It is not about | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
playing bagpipes and your painted face. It is about something much | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
more fundamental than that. It is about self-worth,, about the law and | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
the working class and the underclass. -- self-worth and self | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
esteem. This goes straight into the heart of England. We have to leave | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
it there thank you for coming to speak to us. Back to the studio. | :53:59. | :54:05. | |
And, well, Hamish Madonna, very briefly, you have been muttering | :54:06. | :54:12. | |
ever since Ed Miliband was on here. -- Hamish McLaren old. I was very | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
intrigued with the speech. In the fact that he did not thank the | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
Conservative partners or the Lib Dem partners and he over gave -- only | :54:23. | :54:30. | |
gave Gordon Brown the most fleeting of praise. And when you think about | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
those who have their reputations enhanced by this process. It is | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
slightly Alistair Darling and certainly Gordon Brown, and I think | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
Ed Miliband is in a very difficult position. He is there as a Labour | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
Leader who was not able to carry the Labour vote until he had help from | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
his predecessor. I know you want to drop a bombshell. But for the | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
moment, we are going to go to Jeremy Vine. Yes, we are! | :54:56. | :55:02. | |
Let's look at the margin of victory. The noes on 55% and the yeses on | :55:03. | :55:12. | |
45%. So a 10% gap - more than the polls were telling us they would be. | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
And the map has been left decisively coloured. This is Scotland after | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
this historic referendum. I will colour in the areas which voted | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
mainly no read, and you can see how many there are. Just four council | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
areas which went for yes. Glasgow and surrounding, and then up in the | :55:33. | :55:35. | |
north-east you can see Dundee there in green. Come back to our wall and | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
you can see the results of that battle ground of the 32 councils. | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
You struggle to find those that said yes because there are only four. You | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
see the Yes vote did win in Glasgow. The biggest council with the most in | :55:51. | :55:59. | |
it. Big councils all went no, though. As did many of the others. | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
In fact, the first results we had in all went no and it was only Dundee | :56:06. | :56:13. | |
city which went yes. Our first yes result. Four in total, then. You see | :56:14. | :56:20. | |
how dramatic the result is when I isolate the yeses and the noes. As | :56:21. | :56:28. | |
we go down the wall here, they become more convincing. So, the | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
biggest margins on this side. Orkney and Shetland and also Scottish | :56:34. | :56:40. | |
Borders and Dumfries and Galloway in Conservative-leaning areas, they | :56:41. | :56:43. | |
definitely did not want to break up with the UK. So, looking at this | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
result, it is certainly decisive. Maybe not a whitewash but a definite | :56:50. | :56:59. | |
and convincing win for the noes. Thank you, Jeremy. What was the | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
bombshell you wanted to drop? It is not a bombshell but I was listening | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
to Ed Miliband take this tribalist approach to the next election. | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
He said the no vote was for social justice. But if you look at the map | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
and the areas which are better off and had something to lose, then look | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
at the Green, and there is the working class, the underclass, the | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
people who do not have. Now, the reality of independence is not the | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
constitutionality of it, it is a means to an end for people to | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
improve their lives. This is where the UK has got into trouble. They | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
will have to devolve assets to building up these areas. If they | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
don't do that, they are just creating or lighting the fuse for | :57:49. | :57:51. | |
the next referendum, you might say. And there is only a 5% swing on it. | :57:52. | :57:57. | |
So they cannot relax. But the people who do have things were those who | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
think I'll -- on the analysis who voted for that and they will be | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
deeply disappointed and disillusioned. Watch this space. | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
Your reservations about Ed Miliband seem to be more, as I understood | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
you, that you think Labour should be more cautious about signing up to a | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
speedy process of further devolution and give it a bit more thought? I | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
think it is important that we are involved in looking at more powers | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
and there has to be a process and the timeline. To be fair to Ed | :58:27. | :58:29. | |
Miliband, I greatly admire what he is doing in terms of the politics in | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
terms of, you know, the energy retail, social justice. That is | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
fine. But I do think we have to be careful as we embark upon new powers | :58:41. | :58:43. | |
for Scotland, we have to have good legislation, and at the end of the | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
day, I want Labour to lead. I don't think they lead during the | :58:49. | :58:50. | |
referendum campaign and I want them to lead in Scotland, because one of | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
the things in the aftermath of this campaign is Labour has to be billed | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
in the aftermath of this campaign is Labour has to be building Scotland | :58:58. | :59:02. | |
because they have 215 ahead, so they have to combine constitutional | :59:03. | :59:04. | |
politics with a new false of the that can take us forward. Ed has | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
part of that but he needs to accept that we need to move forward with | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
some caution to make sure we get the legislation right. Thank you very | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
much. It is ten o'clock. Let's go to Rona, who has a summary of the news. | :59:18. | :59:25. | |
I don't actually have any words in front of me. I think what I'm going | :59:26. | :59:31. | |
to do, Gordon, is come back down to the shop floor, why don't you carry | :59:32. | :59:36. | |
on with so more interesting conversation? Sorry about that! | :59:37. | :59:42. | |
There is a bombshell, no news! What do you make of what you have heard | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
from the politicians? I was interested to hear what Gordon said | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
about social justice, because I would like to be able to pick up on | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
that, when he said the winner of the night was social tomography. I | :59:57. | :59:59. | |
thought the winner of the night was the night at Kingdom and -- the | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
United Kingdom and the Better Together campaign. We should not get | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
away from the fact that we were looking at possibly a two-point gap, | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
maybe less, and it has ended up with a ten point gap, and that is a very | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
decisive vote for the Union, and I do not think we have necessarily | :00:25. | :00:26. | |
focused enough on that. And it doesn't look as if the political | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
parties involved are going to focus on that, because Alistair Darling | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
has moved onto Scottish Labour and seems to have ditched the whole | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
Better Together thing. We will come back in a moment. I think we are | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
going now to Jonathan Sutherland at the Emirates Stadium. He is with | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
John Reid. Yes, thank you very much, Gordon, we | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
are outside the Emirates arena in the East End of Glasgow, where the | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
last men and women standing in the Better Together campaign have | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
been... One man who has stuck with us, before he gets the eighth, his | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
doctor John Reid. First of all, what is the reaction to what has been an | :01:07. | :01:15. | |
historic night? -- is Dr John Greig. I am delighted that there's been a | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
clear decision and that we want to stay inside the partnership of the | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
night at Kingdom. This is a discussion that has been going on | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
since the mid-1970s. -- the United Kingdom. In a sense, this vote is | :01:28. | :01:35. | |
the end of the discussion. It is clear, for generations, Alex Salmond | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
had said, we want to be part of the United Kingdom. In the other sense | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
it is a beginning, because I hope we can work together, not only the | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
parties, Liberal Democrats, the Conservatives and the Labour Party, | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
but I hope the SNP, to have better governance inside the UK. And that | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
doesn't just affect Scotland, because I think that the Welsh, the | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
Northern Irish and the English will want to look at their issues as | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
well, and that is right. We had Johann Lamont, Ed Miliband and | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
Alistair Darling talking about how change will happen, very much the | :02:17. | :02:27. | |
watchword. How difficult do you think the negotiations and | :02:28. | :02:29. | |
discussions between now and the draft legislation will be? There is | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
still a lot of heat on both sides. I think change will happen, not just | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
because it has been pledged, though it has, but I think because people | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
understand in the modern Britain, the modern United Kingdom, you | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
cannot go on in the centralised way that you did last century or the | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
century before. So it is an actual process which applies not only to | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
Scotland but to the other nations. Whether that takes the form of | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
decentralising in England the or city regions, local enterprise | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
companies or whatever, it will be discussed. -- in England to the | :03:06. | :03:13. | |
cities or city regions. On the other hand, there is pretty common cause | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
among the three major parties about the types of powers they want | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
devolved to the Scottish Parliament now, including tax raising powers, | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
control over our own welfare spending. Yes, there are differences | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
in the details, but we have got a timetable for working it out. The | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
wider questions, as regards England and Wales and Northern Ireland, | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
there hasn't been so much thought put into that, there has been some, | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
so they may be difficult, but change will come, and that is not a bad | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
thing - that is a good thing, so tonight's vote, sorry, this | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
morning's vote, we have been up so long! This morning's vote is not | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
just a means of change in Scotland. I think it is good for the whole of | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
the United Kingdom. How disappointing is it, from a Labour | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
point of view, because we seem to be very much into the realms of party | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
politics, very much a Labour Party thing today, how disappointing is it | :04:14. | :04:23. | |
that Glasgow was very much Yes? Yes, it is disappointing, but it is | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
understandable. You see, I may have a minority view, but my view is that | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
not the whole of the yes vote was from people who wanted a separate | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
nation. A substantial portion would have been, people who positively | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
wanted to separate and have independence. But at least some of | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
them, and I think probably a good little bit, was a protest against | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
cuts, austerity, the conditions in which people are living. And I | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
think, in a general election, those boats might have gone to Labour to | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
get rid of the Conservatives, but here they accumulated around the Yes | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
flag, and I understand that. -- those votes-macro. Change has to | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
happen not only in a constitutional sense, but also politicians saying, | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
right, there are obviously cries of anxiety, anger and frustration here | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
which exhibited themselves through this support, so how do we apply | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
ourselves to those issues. Dr John Reid, thank you, up since seven | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
o'clock yesterday morning, that is it for now from the Emirates arena, | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
back to you. I think John Reid never sleeps, | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
extraordinary! Can I pick up on something he was saying there? You | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
see, we are all talking about more powers, but arguably one of the most | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
striking things is that most of the traditional Labour areas, | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
working-class areas, voted yes and that what the Labour Party has not | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
managed to do is develop a narrative about poverty and deprivation which | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
breaks out the framework of nationalism. The SNP have co-opted | :06:08. | :06:17. | |
that, it is all more powers, and more debate about more powers is | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
still in the framework that the SNP wants to have. Perhaps Gordon Brown | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
has been trying to break away from that, but you have an awful long way | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
to go. John Reid makes a lot of points I would agree with, and | :06:27. | :06:28. | |
Gordon introduced this part of the discussion by talking about the | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
economic challenges, and three areas which voted very solidly yes, but | :06:33. | :06:40. | |
this is why I want to see Labour combines social justice and | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
constitutional change, because that gives Labour an edge. Traditionally | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
it has been the party... But you need a narrative which has nothing | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
to do with Scotland against Westminster but is a traditional | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
Labour narrative, forget all this stuff about Scotland, England, Wales | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
and Northern Ireland - we are the British Labour Party, this is our | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
case. Shall justice. We need to return to some basics in terms of | :07:05. | :07:13. | |
common good. -- this is our case for social justice. Now is the time in | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
Scotland to return to those very ethical issues which drive the | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
party, but if we can get the constitutional issue is settled, it | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
does allow the freedom, because the SNP have dominated, it does allow | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
the freedom to concentrate on some big issues. But in relation to his | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
comments, if you consider that in 1999 we had a Scotland Act with new | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
powers and taxes, then in 2012, we had more powers and taxes, in 2015 | :07:42. | :07:48. | |
we are going to have more powers and taxes - wouldn't it be right to | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
consider that if we carry on incrementally changing, we are going | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
to run out of powers at Westminster to devolve? That is why we need a | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
strategy that looks to the future, in a sense working backwards. The | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
other side of this, traditional Labour working-class areas voted | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
yes. Apart from Dundee, the heartland SNP areas voted quite | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
heavily know. You haven't convinced the Scottish middle classes in these | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
areas that they might want to vote because they like Alex Salmond and | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
think he runs a good Scottish Government, but they are not in | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
favour of independence. I would have taken a different stance on these | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
matters, but having represented an urban industrial constituency, I | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
think that what we did not do in the Yes campaign was to fight it on the | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
north-south divide, the growth of London, the emigration of 40,000 | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
young Scots a year. These are the essential reasons why we require | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
independence and the economic powers to change the face of the Scottish | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
economy. You convinced Henry McLeish's traditional vote, but not | :08:57. | :09:03. | |
your own. There is always a discordance between the two, but | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
what you are seeking is a majority, and I did not think the balance was | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
wrong, but that is me getting into trouble again by saying such a | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
thing! We will leave that for the moment and go to Simon Jack in the | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
City of London, what is the mood like down there, Simon? Well, as | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
expected, the City is giving this result and the margin of the result | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
a pretty warm welcome. Sterling rallied, first of all when the | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
YouGov poll put the no vote ahead, then Clackmannanshire, which could | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
have gone either way, when that declared no, we got another spurt. I | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
can show you a couple of bits, a couple of weeks ago the markets | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
thought this was a dead Serbs know, and then some opinion polls put it | :09:49. | :10:01. | |
very close. -- a dead cert no. RBS's plans of moving south of the | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
border have gone in the bin, there has been a relief rally. But | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
political uncertainty does remain. The markets are trying to get their | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
heads around some of the devolution promises that some people are saying | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
have been hastily assembled. Nowhere near the kind of uncertainty we | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
would have had about who owns what, what currency would be used, and it | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
is not just here in the UK that we have seen results resonate. Spanish | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
bonds are rallying, of course they have gone their own separatist | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
issues, a lot of Catalans in Scotland for the referendum. So you | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
are seeing a bounce in Spanish bonds, as the likelihood of them | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
going through this seems to be receding slightly. Let's go back to | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
Andrew Kerr in Edinburgh, if we are? Yes, there he is! I do not know | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
if there has been any reaction from politicians, presumably they are | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
fast asleep. We have had more consul generals and | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
film stars around Holyrood at the moment! I can give you a few | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
Edinburgh vignettes, the all-night vigil was continuing, the yes | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
supporters were out singing Flower Of Scotland, starting to clear up | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
some of the bottles after the vigil, and they left pretty dejected, down | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
at heart. But last night in the capital, I was walking past one pub, | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
and I heard one man say to another, everybody discussing the referendum | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
of course, and he was saying, well, even if we don't win, it is a win | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
for yes. I think he was being quite pragmatic, if there is no | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
independence, there is the promise of more powers, so he was looking at | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
it in a pragmatic optimistic kind of way. Further down the road, more | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
people smoking outside another pub, and a chap said, I heard him say, it | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
will involve the whole of the United Kingdom, would it? It was | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
interesting that the chat in Edinburgh was already looking ahead | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
to what was going to happen in the rest of the United Kingdom and | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
obviously more powers. In. So maybe a lot of down at heart, downbeat | :12:13. | :12:23. | |
people today, but some saying it is a win-win situation for yes in that | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
way. -- more powers for Scotland. David Gold is back in London, any | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
more reaction there? We starting to get more reaction, as far as Downing | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
Street is concerned, David Cameron has made his statement, he has gone | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
up a constituency visit this morning. I think Downing Street | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
would like his statement to stand, they would like it to be business as | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
usual here today. As regards other politicians, they have been putting | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
their ideas in, William Hague has been interviewed and has said that | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
it is incomprehensible that the so-called West Lothian question | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
concerning the voting rights and responsibilities of Scottish MPs can | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
not be looked at if you are looking at more powers for the Scottish | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
Parliament. He has been charged by David Cameron at looking at how they | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
will bring these extra powers in, not just for Scotland but for the | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
rest of the United Kingdom as well. Other Conservative backbenchers have | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
perhaps been less helpful to David Cameron. Owen Paterson, the former | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
Environment Secretary, has made it plain he is very unhappy with what | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
the three UK party leaders promised to Scotland before the referendum. | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
He, I think, like many others, is quite concerned. He has gone as far | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
as calling for a recall of Parliament to discuss what has | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
happened. I don't think that is likely, certainly Downing Street are | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
not in the mood to accede to that kind of demand. Another Conservative | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
MP, Bernard Jenkin, the Essex MP, pretty well-known as not a friend of | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
David Cameron, has again said if Scotland is going to get more | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
powers, England must get more powers, and the whole question of | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
the Barnett formula, the money that Scotland gets, and also the voting | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
rights of Scottish MPs have got to be addressed. As far as Downing | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
Street is concerned, they would like to say, look, nothing to say here, | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
we have resolved this question, we would get on the process of | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
governing. Somehow I don't think a lot of Conservative MPs are going to | :14:27. | :14:28. | |
let that happen. Thank you. Now we have lots of | :14:29. | :14:42. | |
decimals and fractions! A resounding victory for the No campaign last | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
night and the first place to declare was Clackmannanshire. You can see | :14:48. | :14:58. | |
46% yes and 54% no. A huge turnout, which was the second story the | :14:59. | :14:59. | |
night. And then it was in Orkney and | :15:00. | :15:10. | |
Shetland, which voted no. This was one of the biggest of the night. | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
Difference is clearly more than 2/1 there. The tightest no vote of the | :15:16. | :15:23. | |
whole evening was in Inverclyde. You can see it went red, which means it | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
voted no to independence. But very tight. Just over 100 votes between | :15:29. | :15:40. | |
the 2 of them. If we go to the Western Isles, it is this one here. | :15:41. | :15:49. | |
Obviously represented by an SNP MP and an SNP MSP. Very much | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
disappointment in that camp with that result. That result was | :15:54. | :16:03. | |
followed closely by West Dunbartonshire. As you can see here, | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
it was one of only four on the board which went to the yes camp. The | :16:09. | :16:21. | |
first one which went to the yes camp way was Dundee. You will see there a | :16:22. | :16:30. | |
pretty resounding victory. It was called Yes City by the yes camp. Not | :16:31. | :16:39. | |
quite as higher turnout as some other areas but better than the last | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
Scottish elections and general election as well. So, what happened | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
when we go to Stirling? I have just lost it on the board! And you will | :16:48. | :16:54. | |
see the result in Stirling was a pretty resounding 60% for the no | :16:55. | :17:03. | |
camp. So the no camp very pleased with the amount and number of people | :17:04. | :17:11. | |
they got out. So, if we go to Angus, you will see a very strong | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
representation at Holyrood and Westminster. But disappointment for | :17:17. | :17:29. | |
the Yes campaign again. If we go to Aberdeen, city of granite and oil, | :17:30. | :17:31. | |
what did it think of the question on the ballot paper? Should Scotland be | :17:32. | :17:39. | |
independent - yes or no? The turnout, about the same, 82%. And if | :17:40. | :17:47. | |
we go to one of the areas which the yes camp had been hoping they would | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
gain, you will see it as a green, which means it is green for yes. | :17:52. | :18:04. | |
Just 5000 indifference. Quite tight. About the same as some of the polls | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
over the last ten days or so. Now, if we look at South Lanarkshire, | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
that is the constituency which also has the Conservative David | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
Mundell's area in it, and that is perhaps why in an area in the north | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
of Lanarkshire, some quite high deprivation in South Lanarkshire, so | :18:26. | :18:33. | |
a different territory. A huge disappointment for the yes camp when | :18:34. | :18:51. | |
it came to Perth and Kinross. But by 5am, it was the turn of Glasgow, the | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
biggest constituency in Scotland, and you can see it has gone green. | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
It went in favour of independence but a pretty low turnout - just 75%. | :19:02. | :19:13. | |
The second biggest constituency in Scotland is Edinburgh, and you can | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
see from the red colour that it voted no to independence. The | :19:18. | :19:24. | |
turnout was about the same as other regions -80 4%. So, if we take you | :19:25. | :19:34. | |
back here. -- 84%. If we go back to Fife, you will see that the result | :19:35. | :19:46. | |
there on an 84% turnout to this number of votes. That was a | :19:47. | :19:53. | |
bellwether seat. It has Gordon Brown's backyard but also SNP | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
representation. It voted no to independence. And so if we show you | :19:57. | :20:04. | |
in size of constituencies, if we look there, you can see on our map | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
that Glasgow, Edinburgh, Fife, South Lanarkshire, North Lanarkshire, only | :20:11. | :20:18. | |
four of those voted yes. Of the smaller, all of those voting no to | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
independence. We will take you to our very final total and you will | :20:26. | :20:40. | |
see by how much the yes camp won. The no camp was shot by just 200,000 | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
votes. And that is how it looked. -- was shot. | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
Thank you. Stephen Duff has been in Aberdeen Harbour! While we have been | :20:52. | :21:01. | |
stuck in here! Aberdeen voted decisively no. Aberdeen Harbour busy | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
as ever this morning. It would have been continuing to be busy, | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
independence or not. It would have continued to pump oil and gas from | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
Scotland whatever the result. Some reaction from the company's | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
representatives. Roy Lancaster UK saying it looked forward to | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
continuing to work with the Scottish and UK governments. -- oil and gas | :21:22. | :21:32. | |
UK. It is sticking to its claim which was very controversial during | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
the referendum campaign, that they could be as much as | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
12-24,000,000,000 roles of oil left in the North Sea. Again, happy that | :21:42. | :21:52. | |
the uncertainty is now over. -- 12 to 24 billion barrels of oil. It | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
said it was looking forward to the wood report. Aberdeen, we know parts | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
of it, the middle-class, wealthy parts, voted no. Perhaps people in | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
the oil and gas industry were looking to their future. | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
Thank you, Steven. Katrina Renton has been talking to an actor. Beyond | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
devastated. Thought it was the chance for something special and | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
that we could create something special with a grassroots movement. | :22:25. | :22:31. | |
But I think on our side the biggest thing in the debate was the | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
timetable, which we have no idea what it is, and if it is not | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
delivered, we will see the same people used it up for yes in that | :22:42. | :22:49. | |
square again. And the people on no still believing we will get these | :22:50. | :22:52. | |
extra powers. I don't think it is the end. It can't be. Westminster | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
elite have been draining this country dry for so long. So I hope | :22:58. | :23:07. | |
we can continue. I mean, the involvement and the people who had | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
never even registered before voting. Hopefully this isn't the end of | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
this. But there are other ways of looking at it. Basically yes has | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
made up so much ground and maybe is this the beginning of a movement? I | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
believed that. I was beyond devastated. I walked away from it | :23:28. | :23:39. | |
but those younger people, I have just turned 30, so... If Westminster | :23:40. | :23:48. | |
worked, if Britain worked, then we wouldn't be in this situation. But | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
we will continue to hold them to account until it works. And is that | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
the thing? Because basically we have heard about all these powers for | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
Scotland but if this doesn't happen and you don't get a pretty good | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
deal, I presume there will be a lot of pressure? It is not about a deal. | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
It is not about us getting better. We just want to look after | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
ourselves. I feel compelled to go back to George square because this | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
is what I felt and I genuinely felt when I came through there tonight | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
when I thought we were going to win it. The atmosphere was incredible. | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
Hopefully, if we don't get what we were promised, we will be back | :24:30. | :24:39. | |
there. At, again... -- but. And it is like being handed things rather | :24:40. | :24:48. | |
than owning things? Exactly. Whether you voted no or yes doesn't make you | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
any less a Scot. I have to accept that. Maybe we like being handed | :24:53. | :25:02. | |
stuff. I want to take complete control of that. What I would would | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
like to see if they timetable on how much will we have left because I | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
think it would be miraculous now it has been handed back to the UK. | :25:13. | :25:22. | |
Let's go back to another of our correspondents. Thank you for | :25:23. | :25:29. | |
joining me, Alistair. Can I get the Law Society's reaction to the vote | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
last night? The Law Society, prior to the vote, was strictly | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
nonpartisan and continues to hold that position, and we are glad the | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
decision has been made and the polls has happened, and now what | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
we're looking forward to is working with the Westminster government | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
other parties and creating the new Scotland which is clearly required | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
and demanded, given the result of the poll. Before we get to the | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
future, can we just focus on the past a bit? What did the referendum | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
do the business, do you think? We heard some scare stories but what is | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
your story? The referendum clearly had a big impact on business. | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
Whenever there is uncertainty of outcome, currently being a major | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
factor, then business people tend to derisk the situation, which means | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
they don't do anything, and we started to see commercial business | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
is putting plans on hold from April, and then after the government -- | :26:30. | :26:37. | |
YouGov poll came out, things slowed down dramatically and we started to | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
see conditions come into offers which made the whole offer he | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
conditional on there being a no vote. Looking at the new powers, | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
what do you make of what is on offer? You will be looking at that | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
with interest and how this plays, Holyrood, might be changing in the | :26:54. | :27:01. | |
future. -- this place. What we would want encourages a wide discussion | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
and consultation with the people of Scotland so we can work together to | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
craft what the changes will look like and what the impact of those | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
changes will have. The legal profession in Scotland has a great | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
reputation for working with them. We did it when the Scottish Parliament | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
opened in 1999, so why can we not do it again? And we would very much | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
welcome to be part of that discussion and to work with | :27:25. | :27:26. | |
interested parties on creating something which meets the needs of | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
the people and is progressive and takes us forward as a nation. If | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
there had been a Yes vote, drafting would have started on a new written | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
constitution for Scotland. Do you think that is still lacking in the | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
UK at the moment? We are looking at the UK framework and I was speaking | :27:45. | :27:55. | |
to the political editor of the Daily Record, and it is almost a front | :27:56. | :28:02. | |
page, The Vow from Westminster. I don't think we have to have that to | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
be a successful country going forward, a constitution. It isn't | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
the critical factor but obviously there is a demand from the people of | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
Scotland for change and the status quo is no longer sit -- acceptable, | :28:15. | :28:22. | |
and if that future looks like having a written constitution involved, | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
then, again, the Law Society would be delighted to be involved in that. | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
We have the skills and our membership to be involved and it is | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
the sort of thing the Society and lawyers in the Society should be | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
involved in. You said they took a neutral view on independence but | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
thinking of membership, you think of lawyers as being fairly | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
establishment and traditional-type figures, but can you tell me perhaps | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
what the overall feeling was? There is a sense you are very much part of | :28:54. | :28:55. | |
the establishment? For those living at it from a | :28:56. | :29:04. | |
commercial point of view, because of the on certainty, the continued | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
uncertainty that a yes vote would bring, there was anxiety in terms of | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
their business, that clients would have reduced activity and that would | :29:14. | :29:15. | |
have a knock-on impact on their business. So from the commercial | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
point of view, having certainty, the sooner the better, helps our | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
businesses, and that was a major factor in our thinking. Thank you | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
very much for coming in from the Law Society of Scotland. Back to you, | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
Gordon, in Glasgow. Look, I am very aware that some of | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
you may, for whatever reason, not have been following very closely | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
what has gone on. Perhaps you've been on night shift, perhaps you've | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
just switched on the television, so let's just pause for a moment and | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
remind ourselves, at least Kevin will remind us, of what the story is | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
of what has happened during the last few hours. | :29:54. | :29:56. | |
Yes, 114,148. No, 130 9000, 788. | :29:57. | :30:15. | |
This is the moment when the referendum result was confirmed. | :30:16. | :30:22. | |
140,000 voters in Fife would take the no support across the finish | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
line with the votes still to count. Soon afterwards, the First Minister | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
accepted the result and praised the people of Scotland for an 86% | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
turnout, but he had this message for his Westminster counterparts. Gold | :30:36. | :30:44. | |
-- I pledge to work constructively in the interests of Scotland and the | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
rest of the United Kingdom. Secondly, the Unionist parties made | :30:49. | :31:00. | |
vows to devolve more powers to Scotland. Scotland will expect these | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
to be honoured rapidly. The Prime Minister went further, announcing | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
powers being devolved to all four nations on the same timescale to | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
that being offered to Scotland. Lord Smith of Kelvin, who so successfully | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
led Glasgow's Commonwealth Games, as agreed to oversee the process to | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
take forward these devolution commitments with powers over tax, | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
spending and welfare all agreed by November and draft legislation | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
published by January. Just as the people of Scotland will have more | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
power over their affairs, so it follows that the people of England, | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
Wales and Northern Ireland must have a bigger say over there is. -- | :31:41. | :31:55. | |
theirs. The first result came in at 1:30 with someone keen to hear the | :31:56. | :32:07. | |
result by phone. Yes, 16,350. No, 19,000... | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 19,036. The people of | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
Clackmannanshire boated no, 54% of them, setting the tone for the | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
night. -- voted. At the Better Together headquarters, the mood was | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
buoyant, no knowledge of what was to come, but confidence nonetheless. To | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
those who supported us and a great team of volunteers, that is you... | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
All of you, all the political parties who have worked for this | :32:40. | :32:50. | |
outcome, I want to say thanks from the bottom of my heart, thank you | :32:51. | :32:58. | |
very much. Among the first to declare where the islands, with the | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
Western Isles' results coming initially in Gaelic... The language | :33:02. | :33:09. | |
might have been different, but he was old was the same, still nothing | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
for the yes side. The face of the campaign chairman appeared to say it | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
all. On the streets of Glasgow, though, the initial losing streak | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
didn't dampen the party atmosphere. Hundreds were in George Square to | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
mark an important day in Scotland's history. The spirits here were | :33:30. | :33:36. | |
nothing but high. Dundee was the first to go to yes, decisive, making | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
the race neck and neck. And then the biggest moment of the night when yes | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
took the lead. For a full five minutes, the glum faces were gone, | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
and it was high fives all around. The yes camp stood at 50.2% of those | :33:53. | :33:59. | |
counted. But then it would crumble. No, 37,000... | :34:00. | :34:11. | |
No, 62,700... No, 70,000... | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
Two clear messages coming out of it. Firstly, the turnout suggests | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
people in Scotland really have found their voice, and secondly, with over | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
1 million people voting at this stage for independence, many of | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
those who will have voted no to independence because they believe it | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
would deliver stanch powers for the Scottish Parliament, there is a big | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
appetite for change. -- deliver substantial powers. The counts went | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
of almost flawlessly, except in Dundee, where a firearm twice forced | :34:48. | :34:56. | |
the evacuation of the counting hall. -- a fire alarm. The majority of | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
ballots cast by the people of Scotland, in response to the | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
question, should Scotland be an independent country, were in favour | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
of no. The chief accounting officer's moment was stolen. By the | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
time she made her declaration, it was all long over. And for some, it | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
was proving to be just too much. Shortly after five o'clock, the BBC | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
called the referendum with the people of Scotland rejecting | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
independence. It is the end of chapter one, but the falls Tory is | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
still to be told. Kevin Keane reporting. We have been | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
joined by commentator Gerry Hassan, you don't get to do the commentating | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
until you show us the T-shirt. What does it say? Yes to the sum of | :35:45. | :35:57. | |
independence, it is a last wear before I throw it away or put it in | :35:58. | :36:05. | |
the attic -- summer. I was at an all-night with people who have been | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
making a marvellous contribution to this debate. I want to put it to | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
you, maybe the thing that strikes me most is that all the traditional | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
working class Labour areas, and perhaps we can include Dundee in | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
that, they all voted yes, perhaps Inverclyde comes into that, a very | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
narrow no. All the traditional heartlands of the SNP voted no, | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
sometimes by thumping majorities. It is completely paradoxical. Yes, it | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
is paradoxical in terms of party politics, but not beyond that. One | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
of the defining factors of the referendum has been about insiders | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
and outsiders. The less state as you have in society, the more likely you | :36:50. | :36:59. | |
were to vote yes. -- status. That map looks like it has held quite | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
significantly. You have to go to Dundee and Glasgow and elsewhere, | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
where there are lots of divisions in nose, but it looks like one of the | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
stories of the night, I think. -- in those. Almost a clasp vote. Yes, | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
people have said that, that it is a class issue. I think that is a bit | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
one-dimensional. We don't want to go back to the 1970s... People have | :37:25. | :37:32. | |
been saying, even in more affluent areas, it is the less affluent bits | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
of those areas that have been voting yes. That is right, and it is | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
something about what people feel they have got at risk what they feel | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
they can gain from the potential social change of independence. A lot | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
of people scared of the unknown, and we have heard about the Law Society, | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
there is institutions of Scotland were scared of things changing, | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
scared of instability. Another way of looking at that, Gordon, it may | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
well be that people who see themselves as being deprived have | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
gone to vote yes, but another way of looking at it is that the middle | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
classes of Scotland came out and said to you and your politics, we | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
are just not having it. I think that is perfectly true, that is my own | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
analysis of it, and that is why they should have been a bad economic | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
presentation, so the middle classes could see that there would be a | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
benefit. Take one example - 40,000 young people emigrate from Scotland | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
every year, a large proportion of them are children from middle-class | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
families. You are finding that they have to leave Scotland in order to | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
get a job or a better job. If we had made that pitch, it may well be that | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
the grandparents could have come into play. The other thing that we | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
can note is that a large number of those who are voting no are of my | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
generation, and it is the older people in particular, still British | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
in some ways, and that is a passing phase. Gordon, thanks for that for | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
the moment. In Edinburgh, it is raining, we have better talk to | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
collector before she is soaked. What is the mood among the financial | :39:12. | :39:18. | |
types you have talked to? It is interesting to see people heading | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
into work, getting on with their business, which started earlier | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
today. I am in Millennium Square just off Lothian road, surrounded by | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
big financial institutions, to my left Scottish Widows, to my right | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
Clydesdale Bank, and beyond that and down the road it is, of course, | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
Standard Life, who have been at the centre of the referendum campaign | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
because they came out early on talking about the dangers for them | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
as a business of a yes vote, and there seems to be a collective sense | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
of relief. There were significant companies that came out in saying | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
that if there was a yes vote, it wouldn't damage business, that | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
Scottish financial institutions would carry on business as usual, | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
and most notably Aberdeen Asset Management. Most organisations will | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
be relieved because of the significant concerns they had around | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
currency and who would be regulating them in an independent Scotland, | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
that has been removed. Those contingency plans do not need to be | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
put into place that people have been working on over the last weeks and | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
months. Looking at the markets, a pretty steady start to the FTSE, and | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
on the currency market the pound took a real bounce this morning, | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
probably off the back of the result and even the predicted results that | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
we saw last night. The pound gaining in value, so it seems to be that the | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
business community and the financial institutions here in Edinburgh are | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
relieved. The instability has been removed. We have talked a lot in | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
this campaign about the fact that business do not like instability, | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
insecurity, and with the bat, it does seem that businesses would be | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
getting on as usual and perhaps even going forward with growth plans that | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
we may have seen put on the back burner over the last weeks and | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
months while we were waiting for this result to be announced. It will | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
be interesting to see in the next weeks and months the growth plans | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
that businesses come out with, whether it is physical extensions or | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
growth plans in terms of finance and staff. We have heard this morning | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
from RBS, saying that they are committed to their Scottish | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
operations, and I would imagine that most other institutions that had put | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
out contingency plans will do the same thing this morning. Again, | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
reassuring the markets that they will continue as normal and are | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
committed to working in Scotland. And, Colletta, is it your sense that | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
banks and financial institutions, were they exaggerating, do you | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
think, what could have happened if there was a yes vote? Or would there | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
have been... Do you think they genuinely believed it could have | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
been cataclysmic? I don't think it is a case of exaggeration, but | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
contingency plans have to be put in place for any kind of eventuality, | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
to banks are used to making that kind of contingency planning. I | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
imagine they will be doing something similar in the bun up to the UK | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
collection, now that we are seeing these implications around UK | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
membership of the EU. -- in the run-up. Banks will be putting in | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
those contingency plans, as will other business organisations. It is | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
not that they exaggerated the claim, it was a serious issue around the | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
issue of regulation. It may have been the case that the UK regulator | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
would have forced those banks and institutions to move to the rest of | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
the UK where their remaining customers are put up thankfully, | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
that is not an issue they have to contend with now or think through | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
all work through. They can happily remain in Scotland. That is a relief | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
for workers heading into work this morning, to know their jobs are | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
secure and that the institutions and the registered offices will be | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
staying here too. All right, Colletta, thank you. For the last 24 | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
hours, the right to vote is not the only thing that people have been | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
queueing for. Here is Jane Lewis. Momentous overnight in Scotland, as | :43:14. | :43:22. | |
it was put to the vote, but if you thought these guys were interested | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
in that, not a bit of it! They want to get their hands on the new iPhone | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
6, they have been queueing since Thursday lunch time. Let's have a | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
word with a couple of the guys who are desperate to get their hands on | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
the new gadget. Just tell us where you are from. I am from Stirling. | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
You know there was perhaps a more important event taking place | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
overnight in Scotland, how do you feel about the outcome? | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
I am pleased for the vote because I am a no-photo. But half the country | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
has not got their own way, so hopefully we can get back together | :44:03. | :44:09. | |
and get on with life. -- voter. I am happy with the way things are right | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
now but we will see in the future. Let's have a word with you. You were | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
queueing, desperate to get your hands on the new iPhone macro. -- | :44:18. | :44:30. | |
iPhone. I was up watching events on the BBC and now I am down here. I | :44:31. | :44:38. | |
voted before I came. I see the outcome as a victory for the workers | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
here. I think the turnout shows people are passionate about how they | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
feel and we can't ignore it because the vote was pretty split. I have to | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
ask you in terms of the future, do you think the Westminster government | :44:58. | :45:00. | |
will give Scotland what it wants? More powers, for example? I | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
absolutely do think that. I don't think we can ignore the 1.5 million | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
who came out asking for independence. And I really believe | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
we will get the powers we need. People will want to know away from | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
the referendum, why are you queueing to get your hands on an iPhone 6? It | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
is quality! I lost the here to collect it! -- I must be here. What | :45:27. | :45:36. | |
about you? I told my wife that if the vote went the right way, I would | :45:37. | :45:44. | |
get her an iPhone! Probably half the country are a bit grumpy this | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
morning, waking up with the vote not on their way! | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
Now, before you think we have become part of Tim Coutts' advertising | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
strategy, we should remind you other communications products are | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
available! What you think overall? I use a prized by this? No. I actually | :46:04. | :46:12. | |
called the result two months ago and called it 36-54 -- 46-54. I didn't | :46:13. | :46:22. | |
buy it because it involved people voting where there had not been | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
political organisation and made mobilisation for generations in | :46:27. | :46:36. | |
terms of the turnout. Interesting that the turnout wasn't as high in | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
Glasgow as people were expecting? It is the lowest in all Scotland but it | :46:42. | :46:50. | |
comes from a 41% turnout in 2011. This is quite good to good for | :46:51. | :46:57. | |
Glasgow standards. But also the hope of the Yes campaign was that if they | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
could get these people who don't usually vote, they would vote yes. | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
That belief doesn't seem to have been very well founded. Yes, and we | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
have contradictory evidence on that. What we did know, and I commissioned | :47:14. | :47:15. | |
the research on this with Ipsos MORI, we knew that missing Scotland | :47:16. | :47:24. | |
saw the referendum differently and that group despise politicians and | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
the political class and things the right political judgement is not to | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
vote, and we can all understand and see the reasons for that, but they | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
judged the referendum is different. They had a stake in the referendum. | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
And we didn't ask them whether they were going to vote yes or no. I was | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
took the view that the democratic moment of this was much or as much | :47:46. | :47:56. | |
important as yes /no. It is a huge, huge moment and it has left a | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
political challenge for the parties who have left these people behind. | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
I'm curious as to what you would do if you were running... We have David | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
Cameron saying, we hear you. He is making Walsall 's commitments about | :48:12. | :48:14. | |
more powers to the Scottish Parliament. If you were Alex | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
Salmond, you want to be in those discussions. -- making all sorts of | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
commitments. Would you be saying, I want to do this, that and the other? | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
Not entirely. I think the SNP and Alex Salmond have to be receptive to | :48:30. | :48:32. | |
what the Scottish people might want. We don't know what the Scottish | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
people want. That is the first problem. And secondly, the thing is | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
to really call upon the Unionist parties to deliver. And say, well, | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
what are these powers? And be willing to co-operate with them. | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
Wouldn't you want to be Justin there to be part of the discussion? | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
Because the danger for the SNP is that this is what will happen next, | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
and, again, the SNP would not have been part of the process? The | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
problem for the SNP is, can it be seen not to be involved in the | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
discussion? But within those discussions, you can adopt an active | :49:07. | :49:14. | |
or passive position. And I would have adopted a passive position, | :49:15. | :49:16. | |
just saying, well, independence is not on the agenda and the Scottish | :49:17. | :49:18. | |
people have decided that for the time being. We are open to | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
suggestions for real powers. And then I would have specified the | :49:24. | :49:26. | |
economic aspect and pushed the challenge back to the Unionist | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
parties. They made the vowel and the promises -- they made The Vow and | :49:31. | :49:40. | |
the promises, and it is now time to move into the attack. That is a | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
tactical issue. One thing that Alex Salmond has is great tactical | :49:46. | :49:54. | |
Knauss. -- tactical moves. It will be interesting to see which way the | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
Scottish Government turns. I shall be an interested observer. So, Alex | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
Salmond, good tactician, lousy strategist! I never said that! That | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
is the implication. I have let you say that and I will have to deny it | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
completely! I am curious as to what you make of some other things about | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
Labour. It is all very well going for more powers but isn't the | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
message of this that Labour has not managed to, if you like, break from | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
nationalism? It has not managed to tell its own traditional supporters | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
a story about deprivation and poverty which breaks out of this | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
whole human about powers of the Scottish Parliament and is actually | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
a story about being part of Britain? I thought you got onto a very | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
interesting to rain there, Henry. He used the phrase "missing story". | :50:50. | :50:57. | |
That is very apt. They have not managed to come together to get that | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
intelligence into a coherent strategy and Labour have missed a | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
strategy on this. Ever since the SNP became a permanent force in Scottish | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
politics, really. You could see Gordon Brown in that speech he made | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
the other day was trying to formulate this, but it does seem | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
rather extraordinary, that, as you say, after years and years, Labour | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
is largely prepared to argue with the Scottish Nationalists on to rain | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
which is staked out by the Nationalists and not Labour? Yes. | :51:28. | :51:34. | |
There are so many strategic mistakes when we are talking about strategy | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
and tactics. What they got the referendum down to, Labour, was two | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
versions of constitutional change. That could have worked for yes | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
because it made all could have made the argument that this was the | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
clearer line and strategy for change. There is an obviously the | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
macro strategy on this question, which is to say, the UK is broken | :51:55. | :52:02. | |
and Scotland as a battering ram. -- there is an obviously Labour | :52:03. | :52:11. | |
strategy. Obviously large parts of them detest the nationals and that | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
works against their own judgement. And also it was Labour in the 1980s | :52:18. | :52:24. | |
and 90s which posed as the party of Scotland which would protect | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
Scotland against the nasty Tories. Yes. And the SNP were able to step | :52:29. | :52:36. | |
into their shoes and say, hey, folks, we are the general article! | :52:37. | :52:43. | |
Exactly. There was always a danger. What it created was a popular front | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
of the mind of the Labour SNP and the Lib Dems and post the national | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
question, and that combined with the fact that Labour did not have a | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
social justice strategy, Labour did not know what to do with it and did | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
not have intelligence beyond, basically, it was going to kill the | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
national stone dead, which is actually a ridiculous argument. So | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
where do we go from here? You see, the danger for Labour is this. The | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
next thing that happens if the general. They do very well. -- the | :53:17. | :53:23. | |
next thing that happens is the general election. May 2016 it will | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
be the Scottish elections. They know the SNP reach their maximum support | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
so they can afford to be complacent. That is right, and we have already | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
been here before. In 2010, Labour won well. They pulled over 1 million | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
votes and then miss read and overinterpreted that result and | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
played the same strategy into 2011. -- mis-read. There was the 16 point | :53:48. | :53:55. | |
lead and the SNP landslide. It might not be the same landslide but they | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
cannot over read 2015 if they win. Thanks for now. Before we get into | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
deep, let's have a look at what has been happening overnight in | :54:06. | :54:13. | |
pictures. Yes, 114,148. No, 139,788. This is | :54:14. | :54:28. | |
the moment when the referendum result was confirmed. 140,000 voters | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
in Fife would take the no support across the finish line with votes | :54:34. | :54:40. | |
still to count. Soon afterwards, the First Minister accepted the result | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
and praise the people of Scotland for an 86% turnout. But he had this | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
message for his Westminster counterparts. On behalf of the | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
Scottish Government, I accept the result and I pledge to work | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
constructively in the interests of Scotland and the rest of the United | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
Kingdom. Secondly, the Unionist parties made vows late in the | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
campaign to devolve more powers to Scotland. Scotland will expect these | :55:09. | :55:18. | |
to be honoured in rapid course. The Prime Minister went further, | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
announcing powers being devolved to all four nations on the same | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
timescale to that being offered to Scotland. Lord Smith of Kelvin, who | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
so successfully led Glasgow's, wealth games, has agreed to oversee | :55:31. | :55:33. | |
the process to take forward these devolution commitments with powers | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
over tax, spending and welfare all agreed by November and draft | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
legislation published by January. -- so successfully led Glasgow's | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
Commonwealth Games. It follows that the people of England, Wales and | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
Northern Ireland must have a bigger say over their powers. This had been | :55:54. | :56:00. | |
a long night and it would be several hours before the picture would | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
become clear. The first result came in at 1:30am, with somebody clearly | :56:06. | :56:14. | |
keen to hear the results by phone. Yes, 16,350. No, 19,000... | :56:15. | :56:23. | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 19,036. The people of | :56:24. | :56:30. | |
Clackmannanshire voted no. 54% of them, in fact, setting the tone for | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
the night. At the Better Together campaign headquarters, the mood was | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
buoyant. No knowledge of what was to come confidence nonetheless. To | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
those who have supported us and all that great team of volunteers, | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
that's you... CHEERING AND APPLAUSE | :56:50. | :56:59. | |
All of you, all the political parties who have worked for this | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
outcome, I want to say thanks from the bottom of my heart. Thank you | :57:03. | :57:08. | |
very much. The independence referendum in the | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
Orkney islands... Amongst the first to declare where the islands, with | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
the first result coming in Gaelic. SPEAKS IN GAELIC | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
The language might have been different but the result was the | :57:23. | :57:24. | |
same. Still nothing for the yes side. The | :57:25. | :57:32. | |
campaign chairman appeared disappointed. Hundreds were in | :57:33. | :57:39. | |
George Square to mark an important day in Scotland's history. The | :57:40. | :57:46. | |
spirits here were nothing but high. Dundee was the first to go to yes. | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
It was decisive and made the race neck and neck. And then the biggest | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
moment of the night, when yes took the lead. For a full five minutes, | :57:57. | :58:02. | |
the glum faces were gone and it was high fives all around. The guest | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
count stood at 50.2% of those counted. -- the yes count. But then | :58:08. | :58:26. | |
it would crumble. No, 52,000... No, 72,039. I think there are two clear | :58:27. | :58:35. | |
messages coming out of it. Firstly, it suggests people in Scotland have | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
found their voice, and secondly, with over 1 million people voting at | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
this stage for independence, many of those who will have voted no to | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
independence because they believe that would deliver substantially | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
more powers to the Scottish Parliament, there is a big appetite | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
for substantial change. The 32 camps went off almost flawlessly, except | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
in Dundee, where a firearm twice forced the evacuation of accounting | :59:00. | :59:07. | |
wall. A few diligent police officers guarded the ballot papers until the | :59:08. | :59:20. | |
counters returned. The result of the vote regarding should Scotland be an | :59:21. | :59:29. | |
independent country is no. For some, it was proving to be just too much. | :59:30. | :59:38. | |
Shortly after 5am, the BBC called the referendum with the people of | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
Scotland rejecting independence. It is the end of chapter one but the | :59:42. | :59:51. | |
full is Tory is still to be written. -- full story. | :59:52. | :00:04. | |
It is 11 o'clock, we are on air all morning! Scotland has voted no, I'm | :00:05. | :00:13. | |
joined by politicians and commentators, and Tim will be with | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
us throughout, reading the runes on how we voted, and what it tells us | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
about Scotland on September the 19th. For the moment, we are joined | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
by Andy Martin, who is at Stormont. Of course, Northern Ireland is a | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
place which has been watching the results overnight with almost as | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
much attention as people in Scotland. What is the reaction | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
there, Andy? Well, unionists, Andy, and the business community broadly | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
are very happy at the result, certainly business leaders point out | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
that there is about ?700 million worth of trade between Northern | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
Ireland and Scotland in terms of manufacturing here. However, I think | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
he was old, whatever way it had gone, would cause some problems for | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
Northern Ireland. -- I think the result. It could be argued that the | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
Executive at Stormont doesn't really need more power, because it is | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
having difficulty dealing with the devolved powers that it has already. | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
There is a crisis looming here to do with welfare reform passed on from | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
the Treasury, the cuts that are meant to be made to the welfare | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
budget. They can't agree, the two main parties, the DUP, to the right | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
of centre, and an extreme Unionist party, and Sinn Fein, the left of | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
centre nationalists party, do not see eye to eye on the issue. Sinn | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
Fein does not want to implement welfare cuts, the DUP, which is | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
responsible for operating the finance ministry, as to make the | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
balance, has to make the budget balance. As a result of that, we are | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
looking at ?84 million without cuts, for the money they have not | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
deducted from welfare this year. And then another ?140 million next year. | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
So there is this difficulty, a crisis looming at Stormont in any | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
case. It could be argued that if more powers are to be devolved to | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
Northern Ireland, that it could cause increasing acrimony between | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
the parties that do not see eye to eye in any case. It is not | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
necessarily the case that devolving more powers to Northern Ireland is a | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
good thing. Thank you very much for now. We are... Oh, no, I thought we | :02:19. | :02:28. | |
were going to Wales, we are going to Gerry Hassan instead. That is one | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
thing we have not seen yet, isn't it? Reaction from Wales and Northern | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
Ireland, because the reactions there are not straightforward. No, they | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
are not. There was an element of anxiety in Northern Irish and Welsh | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
political classes about the issue of Scottish independence, but they see | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
this evolving asymmetrical Union which will have opportunities for | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
them. It is early in the day for asymmetrical unionism! I am sorry, I | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
have been up all night. Hang on, we are going to Carwyn Jones. | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
For more than two years now, it would draw up a future settlement | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
which reflect the aspirations of all of the UK's constituent parts. I | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
haven't altered my view that the Prime Minister was wrong not to have | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
undertaken this well before now. Indeed, his experiences over the | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
past few weeks they have given him pause for thought. He has said that, | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
in the last week, that he views the UK as being part of a family. Well, | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
unlike the unilateral deal that he did with Scotland when it came to | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
holding the referendum, despite the impact of a potential yes vote on | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
the people of Wales and Northern Ireland, he needs to get us all | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
around the table, the people of all of these four nations must have a | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
seat at that table. It is time for our constitution to be put on a | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
coherent footing, no more tinkering at the edges year after year. The UK | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
has suffered a serious injury, and a sticking plaster will not do. Sudden | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
declarations of English votes for English laws is an example of that | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
sticking plaster. The old Union is dead. We need to forge a new Union. | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
The noble committees, no more messing about, no more panicky | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
deals. -- but no more committees. It is time for us all to work this | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
through for the benefit of all of us. I think the UK Government, who | :04:28. | :04:34. | |
until recently had scant regard for devolution, underestimated how broad | :04:35. | :04:36. | |
the constitutional debate would become at the beginning of the | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
referendum campaign. Wales cannot and will not play second fiddle as | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
we work up a new institutional framework. Because the people of | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
Wales, regardless of where they were born, what language they speak, | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
their religion or the colour of the skin, are part of the nation of | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
Wales, and they deserve an equal voice with other nations in | :05:00. | :05:01. | |
discussions about the future structure of the UK. Scotland and | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
Northern Ireland are, of course, very much part of the process, and I | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
look forward to having an early meeting with Alex Salmond and Peter | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
Robinson. It is time to recognise that devolution is an established | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
part of our constitution and needs to be guaranteed, as Gordon Brown | :05:21. | :05:28. | |
has said. Let me turn to funding. Wales's underfunding must be | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
addressed. We are underfunded to the tune of ?300 million per year, money | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
that could be spent on our NHS and on education in Wales. The people of | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
Wales, through their work in coal, steel, tin plate and slate | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
industries, contributed mightily to the prosperity of the UK. It is | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
perfectly reasonable that we should now expect a fair share of the pot. | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
So there is lots to be discussed. We need to start these talks now. The | :05:58. | :06:06. | |
establishment almost lost the Union. The people of these nations | :06:07. | :06:14. | |
must now rebuild it. With that, I will now take some questions. First | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
Minister, Sky News, it has been described that Wales has been a | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
spectator nation through these process, that partly through the | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
fault of politicians such as yourself? Not at all. It is fair to | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
say there is an obsession with Scotland in the media, but there we | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
are. Scotland has been a topic discussed for some time. I first | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
called for a constitutional convention in Dublin castle, of all | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
places, more than two years ago. I saw there was a need to look at the | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
future structure of the UK in the round. Nobody at the time | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
supported... Well, Tom Greatrex, the Labour MP, has joined us while that | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
has been going on. Let me ask you a question about Wales. You heard what | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
Carwyn Jones said about money, and one of the points that the Welsh | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
make is this, look, part of the debate in Scotland has been that the | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
Barnett formula is now, you know, set in stone as this almost sacred | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
thing that can never be altered, but of course the Welsh feel they lose | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
out from it. They don't want it to stay, they feel, as they said, that | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
they are completely underfunded. There is a conflict of interest | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
there between Scotland and Wales, even though you are both Labour. | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
There are a series of conflicts of interest in this debate, and that is | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
why I have a lot of sympathy for the points that Carwyn Jones was making | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
around the need to look at the wider constitutional issues across the | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
piece. Because he made the point that, where we are now is somewhere | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
weather is significant change that is going to have to happen. No-one | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
else will remember Gordon talking to you on one of your previous lives | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
about a year ago, actually, talking about devolution and | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
decentralisation as a principle within our political structure which | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
cannot always be, and it cannot be any more, that people talk about | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
devolution is some kind of sop to try to buy off the demand is for | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
nationalism or independence. It has actually got to be properly embedded | :08:22. | :08:23. | |
in the way our politics works, and that is an issue in England, as | :08:24. | :08:32. | |
Wales as in Scotland, and I spend much of my time in different parts | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
of England, and it should not be a surprise that the dissatisfaction | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
with the over centralisation in England is as much of an issue in | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
places like Sheffield, places like Manchester, and in Cornwall, | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
Bristol, across almost all of everywhere apart from the south-east | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
corner of England. It is a big issue to properly address. It is all very | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
well for David Cameron and everyone else to suddenly be talking about | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
more devolution, and I think David Cameron talked about the cities in | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
England as well, but a lot of people in England will say, hang on a | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
minute, this is what Blair and Prescott were on about, and when we | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
were given the choice for more devolution, we voted against it, we | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
are not interested. Why should we suddenly get interested in a federal | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
UK just because Scotland once more devolution? They respect the | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
decision but don't force us to be interested in something we don't | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
care about. I think you will find, if you go back to people not just in | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
the north-east of England, but across different parts of England, | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
as well as in Wales and Northern Ireland, you will find the attitude | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
that there was in 1999-2000, when that referendum in the north-east | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
happened, is very different now to the need now for real devolution | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
within those areas. Now, what part of that result, going back in | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
history, I think it was about a feeling that people did not want | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
another tier of politics necessarily, but that is very | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
different from decentralising power, and that is something which, for a | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
whole range of reasons, needs to happen now or in the experience. And | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
other things have happened in the time between then and now, you know, | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
in terms of the way in which people are able to do things, technological | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
improvements which make it more possible and practical, and that is | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
where the debate has to get to, as soon as we can, because devolution | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
and decentralisation needs to be a core part of our evolving | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
constitution, and if it is not, if I can make this point, what we have | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
seen over the course of the last 24-48 hours in Scotland is go to be | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
more of an issue everywhere else as well, because the dissatisfaction | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
with an overcentralised state is there across all parts of the UK. | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
Jerry, Carwyn Jones doesn't mince his words, does he? The | :10:48. | :10:55. | |
establishment almost lost the Union. Is a great sound bite, he is | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
absolute right, and Tom makes a number of good points as well. This | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
is not just a constitutional moment of crisis, there is something that | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
Tom was getting too about how Westminster and the British state do | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
not nurture and support and look after the working people of all | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
Britain. You have to marry constitutional change to economic | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
and social change, and that is a big set of this use. It is not just | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
about federalism, it is the uneven development of England, the UK, the | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
north-east, the Northwest, no political voice in the corridors of | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
power. They are sidelined. That is not just about the coalition, these | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
are long-term changes, capital in British society, tough for | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
progressive politics to address. Let's get your reaction to something | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
that we were discussing earlier, we were discussing it with Henry | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
McLeish, and that is that one of the striking things about this is that | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
most of the traditional working class Labour areas in Scotland voted | :11:52. | :11:58. | |
yes, and what Labour has not managed to do is develop pain nonnationals | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
way of talking about issues like poverty and deprivation. -- to | :12:02. | :12:09. | |
develop a non-nationalised way. You need to punch through that, don't | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
you? In a way that argued Lee Gordon Brown has been trying to do. The | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
point I was time to make before... -- arguably. We have a result on the | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
referendum, and it has to be about the way in which we don't see and | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
cannot see and cannot carry on seeing devolution as something to | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
sort of by nationalism. That has been a big error... Fine, more | :12:34. | :12:41. | |
evolution, you can encode that into your central policies, -- | :12:42. | :12:50. | |
devolution. But the Nationalists have managed to convince, in your | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
core areas, people who are less well off that independence was the way to | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
get the establishment to cater to their concerns. You have not managed | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
to develop a narrative, as Labour, which says, no, this is about | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
everyone in Britain pulling together, working people and all the | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
rest of it. You have failed in that. The experience in my own area, | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
South Lanarkshire, as an example, we note... All you have to do was walk | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
over the border into North Lanarkshire and you would know what | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
I mean! The result in South Lanarkshire almost mirrors the | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
national result, and it is a very mixed area, urban and rural areas, | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
some affluent parts, some significant areas of deprivation. | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
But the extent to which people who would identify themselves previously | :13:40. | :13:47. | |
as Labour voters voting yes was not as far as it was necessarily | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
portrayed in some of the debate running up to the referendum. | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
It is hard to tell the figure. But I know from talking to voters in my | :13:56. | :14:05. | |
questions, when I have been out campaigning, it was not as clear cut | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
as Labour voters voting "yes" and people voting SNP in 2011, to be an | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
anti-Labour alternative voting no. It was not that clear. But what came | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
across clearly from the traditional Labour voters, is that this is | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
almost a last chance. We have to properly deal with the issues. | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
The last chance for Labour? The last chance for us to deal with how we | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
want Scotland to be in the future. How we want devolution to work, from | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
Edinburgh as well a to Edinburgh. That is something that we have to | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
address. What do you mean the last chance? | :14:44. | :14:50. | |
Because people, enough people were not convinced of the case... A last | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
chance for Labour to finish... The commitments made in relation to | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
devolution during the course of the campaign must be delivered, a wider | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
and further devolution centralisation of power in the UK, | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
or we will be having people looking at the UK and saying that this does | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
not work anymore. Thank you very much. | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
David Porter, I hope it is warm there. You seem to have been | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
standing there for several days. What is happening? I am a trooper. I | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
have been on guard at Downing Street. It is a lot calmer outside | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
and inside than it was overnight. And certainly as it was first thing | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
this morning. Downing Street would like to get on with the process of | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
politics, and say it is business as usual. But I was interested in the | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
comments from Carwyn Jones in Wales. If Downing Street were hoping to say | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
that Scotland is sorted out, that we will have a commission to talk about | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
devolution in the future, they will be disappointed. It is obvious | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
coming from Wales and from Northern Ireland as well, that there is a | :15:58. | :16:05. | |
view that basically the genie is out of the bottle. There will be more | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
devolution throughout the United Kingdom. And the local authorities | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
in England have put out a statement, saying that this is a great | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
opportunity. Some of the great cities in England, Liverpools, the | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
Manchesters, the Bristols, the Birminghams, are now saying that if | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
Scotland is going to get more powers, more power over taxation, | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
benefits, that sort of thing, that they would like to see more | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
devolution as well. It is all calm here at Downing Street at the moment | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
but I think over the days and the weeks to come, there is no doubt | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
that this debate is going to carry on. The problem for the coalition | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
government is that basically they have very little time in which to | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
get things moving. They say that they are having a commission, that | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
they will have draft legislation, that will not get through before the | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
general election. There is not the time. Let alone to get it through | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
the Commons. Think how the House of Lords would look at that. So the | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
next UK Government in residence behind me in May 2015, a big thing | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
in the in-tray is to sort out the devolution, to get the proposals | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
through. It will not be easy it will not be sorted soon. | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
David, thank you. We are going to be joined now by Chris Morris. | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
Chris Morris, has there been reaction where you are? Yes, there | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
has. I guess, if you wanted to use a word it is probably "relief" they | :17:35. | :17:41. | |
may not put it that way themselves in Brussels but we have had | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
statements from the European Commission and the something of | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
NATO, welcoming the fact that Scotland has decided to stay with | :17:49. | :17:56. | |
the United Kingdom. Bars bars bars, the President of -- Jose Manuel | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
Durao Barroso has said that the "no" vote is better for a united and a | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
stronger Europe. And taking into the fact that the Scottish government | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
argued for a pro-European perspective, the statement said that | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
they would continue to work with the Scottish government closely on the | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
issues with which it is concerned. The statement mentioned the | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
environment, climate change, martyr regulation. So I think that a bit of | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
a sigh of relief overall. The independence of Scotland, thes is | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
eggs of part of an existence of member state would have raised a | :18:33. | :18:40. | |
whole host of questions that many here in Brussels and other parts of | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
Europe would not like to address. It is partly where the European | :18:46. | :18:52. | |
Unions are based but Belgium, itself, has got tendency to | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
splitting up. I wonder if there has been reaction from Belgium | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
politicians as opposed to EU ones? Last night, the Flemish separatists | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
were demonstrating in favour of a "yes" in Brussels as the counting | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
began. They will be disappointed. But the one reaction that I have | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
seen from a Flemish separatist party was along the lines from what I have | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
seen from the Catalan Government in Spain. That is the fact that of | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
holding the referendum is for them significant. The fact that there can | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
be a constitutional route, a peaceful route to decide the | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
questions. Obviously governments tend to prefer | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
the status quo. I think what happened last night, while there may | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
be those across Europe who would have liked to have seen a "yes", the | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
fact that the process took place has given some people who favour a | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
different form of government in other European countries, a | :19:53. | :19:54. | |
considerable degree of hope, I think. | :19:55. | :20:12. | |
In the referendum campaign, there were interventions from the | :20:13. | :20:14. | |
Australian Prime Minister, President Obama, saying that they wanted the | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
UK to stick together. Iram sure that with will hear from the White House | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
at some point. It is interesting that the Foreign Minister for the | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
Catalan government has said that the referendum has been a success for | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
the democratic process. The Spanish Prime Minister, I don't know if | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
Chris was talking about it there, obviously welcoming the result of | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
the referendum. And they have clearly some difficulties with the | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
Catalan government which today is announcing or expecting to announce | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
a nonbinding referendum on their separatist hopes. And that would | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
obviously cause problems for Spain. Angela Merkel's spokesperson said | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
that it was an impressive turnout, and welcoming the decision Scotland | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
to stay in the UK and saying that they want an engaged, strong and | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
unified UK. So clearly relief around Europe and the wider world and the | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
nations that have separatists movements, welcoming the democratic | :21:17. | :21:29. | |
process and hoping it will give them some saga. | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
And is this last chance for theistist party? I thought that was | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
candid and honest and accurate. Obviously we all know one that is | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
significant, the margin of victory which is significant. But I had a | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
hunch that the No campaign would win. But despite the margin they had | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
to throw everything in it to win it. I do think it is a last chance | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
saloon for the union. I think it gives a window for the UK state to | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
show enlightenment towards Scotland and parts of England that don't have | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
power in the centre. There is not support for English regions, English | :22:15. | :22:16. | |
Parliament but something must be done about breaking out the way that | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
the south-east and London crowds out the rest of England. Scotland does | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
well in the UK economically but some things have to happen. I have always | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
said to people that think this is a bit of an unpopular view in | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
Scotland. There is an element of intelligence in the UK state craft, | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
in the TORP and the Labour Party, there is a window for them to reform | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
the union. If not, we will be back with a second referendum. That would | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
be won -- Tory party. Tom, the danger within the Labour | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
Party from your point of view, given what you said, is that it is | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
possible that Labour in Scotland will take the opposite view? The | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
next thing coming up, the general election. Labour does well here. We, | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
there is a temptation to say we always do well, we don't have to | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
change, then may 2016, they did so well the last time, we can afford to | :23:15. | :23:21. | |
be complacent but if you think that is the team tearings, it is a | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
temptation that should be resisted? I think it will be resisted. | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
The exercise that we have been through with the campaign and the | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
referendum have demonstrated with the level of turnout that there is a | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
genuine across the whole of Scotland, an interest in the issues. | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
There are a number of factors that led to the result. But overall, | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
there is a sense, I think, it is mirrored by what you hear from other | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
parts of the UK, that we have to change the way in which the UK | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
works. If the Labour Party in Scotland does not take that on | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
board, I do believe that we will take it on board and address the | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
points. There are challenges. The fundamental basic case from my | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
perspective is to pool and share resources through government policy | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
to be Irael to direct the resources according to -- to be able to direct | :24:16. | :24:23. | |
the resources according to policy and to have more decentralised | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
decision-making. But there are big challenges there. | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
I think that business as usual will be bad for the union and the medium | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
in the long-term. Now, it has been a political | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
campaign of unprecedented proportions, truly a national | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
conversation. The debate has been fierce and passionate. But with a | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
close result predicted, it will mean that a significant number of people | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
will be less disappointed in the morning... I think that somebody | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
wrote this last night! We examine how the two sides can be reconciled | :25:00. | :25:08. | |
now that the test has settled. We are best friends. | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
The debate has been rigorous, rarely rancorous. But a few flash point | :25:14. | :25:35. | |
moments... Am Labour! Jon Prescott was courting Labour voters for the | :25:36. | :25:45. | |
no campaign. Such powerful visitors attracted counterdemonstrations from | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
the opposite side. But with so many people prepared to | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
come out on to the streets to show their support for each camp, will it | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
be possible for the country to come together again now that the result | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
is known? One big name in the campaign, Margot McDonald has not | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
been able to take part personally but the message was taken around the | :26:09. | :26:17. | |
country by her widower. At one minute past 10. Whatever the | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
result, she wanted the divisions to end and the nation to seek a unity | :26:24. | :26:30. | |
of purpose. If Margo could debate without | :26:31. | :26:38. | |
conceding one iota of principle but do so without venom, so can we all. | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
If she could respect the right of the other side to their opinions, so | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
can we all. That's what happened in Quebec in | :26:48. | :26:55. | |
1995. The no side prevailed with a tiny margin, 56%. Just 50,000 votes | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
from an electorate slightly larger than Scotland today. Observers say | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
that despite that, Canada was not rebellious. There was consensus that | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
the referendum had been a vitally important matter. | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
There was a recognition it had been a very bruising experience for the | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
electorate in Quebec. It was a close result but also a result that really | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
mattered. Not a close result on an issue that was unimportant to | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
people. One key battleground has been | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
business and commerce. Business leaders insist that it is | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
uncertainty that they abhore, today there is certainty. The Scottish | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
council for development and industry says that now we know the outcome, | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
Scotland is open for business. . The sooner the Scottish or the | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
Westminster Government can provide real insight, then the sooner that | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
business is reassured and we are able to pass on that reassurance to | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
the workforce, to the investors and importantly to the customers to | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
demonstrate that Scotland remains a very, very good place to do | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
business. The Church of Scotland is holding a | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
reconciliation service at St Gyles cathedral in Edinburgh on Sunday. | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
But the mot rare believes that the conversation will leave the Scots | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
society stronger. The remarkable thing about the | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
campaign has been that so many people have been involved. Not in my | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
lifetime has there been issue over which the civic voice of Scotland | :28:35. | :28:37. | |
has been heard so clearly. When you have a process that generates that | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
much involvement and that much interest, that must be good. | :28:42. | :28:49. | |
But what we need after the referendum is the same amount of | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
civic involvement but all on the same side. | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
With a heavy turnout, it is inevitable many people will be | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
disappointed today. How that is managed holds the key to the future | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
for all of Scotland. Let's go back over to Andrew, in | :29:09. | :29:16. | |
Hollywood. You are in a bubble, outside the building, aren't you? | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
You said earlier you were in and out, which seemed deeply mystical | :29:20. | :29:26. | |
and significant? We are calling this the Holyrood bubble. We are just | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
outside the Scottish Parliament, in the media village, surrounded by | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
journalists is from all across the world. They are talking into their | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
cameras with the latest news from here. We are outside the parliament | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
but in doors, thankfully. It is nice and warm. To give us some analysis | :29:45. | :29:52. | |
of the campaign, I am joined by Ian Martin, the political commentator. | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
Thanks for coming to speak to us. Let's track back and look at the | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
campaign, from that famous YouGov Sunday, the famous poll that put the | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
Yes Campaign ahead. We saw the full might of the Westminster machine, | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
didn't we? It gave the Westminster establishment the equivalent of a | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
heart attack, really. In that period, in the run-up to that, | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
things were starting to go wrong for them in focus groups as well. The | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
poll was the thing that really shocked them into action. There was | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
a feeling at that point that momentum is incredibly important in | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
campaigns, it always is. There was a feeling that once they potentially | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
had the momentum the race could run away with itself. That is why you | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
saw this huge effort, Alex Hammond made a great play on the campaign | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
Trail of saying there was some coordinated effort by Whitehall and | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
the British establishment, yes, that was the idea! They were trying to | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
save the United Kingdom and they were convinced it was in serious | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
danger. In that crucial weekend, David Cameron didn't even go to the | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
Braemar games, they thought that him being pictured in tweed alongside | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
the Queen would not portray the right image. They recast how they | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
would portray the running of the campaign. Gordon Brown was brought | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
to the fore, more passion was injected. They scaled up the | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
warnings and the City of London reacted in a way that suggested that | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
the markets were spooked. You are plugged into that business network | :31:24. | :31:25. | |
in London and Scotland, you are saying it was an orchestrated | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
campaign, as the First Minister portrayed it? In some sense? It | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
presents it as somehow being sinister. But businesses with | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
concerns, serious concerns about separation, who I think had been | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
convinced that it was going to be OK, a month ago, Cabinet ministers | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
were walking around at Westminster saying, mistakenly in my view, that | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
they were calmly confident and it all looked OK. I think that YouGov | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
poll, whether it turns out to be rogue or suggested some... That it | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
was adjusting its methodology, we will have to find out what happened, | :32:05. | :32:12. | |
it did energise and panic the No Campaign and produced the most | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
extraordinary final run into a British campaign that I can remember | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
I have ever covered. I think it is a campaign without resident. The | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
strategy was perhaps to cap that momentum of Yes. If the poll had | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
been held the previous Thursday, do you think they might have won? The | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
No Campaign might not have capped the momentum, as they managed to do. | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
It's a good point, if the poll came later in the cycle and they have | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
been left with a few days to organise that kind of response, | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
warning of the dangers and stepping up the offer on a timetable, they | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
have a timetable, I'm not sure what the plan is, but the timetable on | :32:57. | :33:08. | |
more powers, if that have been concertinaed, indeed. We saw Gordon | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
Brown sweeping in in the last few days, why was Alistair Darling not | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
coping? Did they not think he was effective enough? You made that | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
barnstorming speech, did he help sway it? Gordon Brown had a | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
brilliant tale and to the campaign, that was the best speech I have seen | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
him give, he gave the speech of his life. However, let's put this into | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
context, Alistair Darling held together a very difficult, desperate | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
coalition of interests in Better Together. It was a difficult | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
campaign to run. Only someone with his legendary patience could have | :33:50. | :33:56. | |
done that. Gordon Brown could not, he will not even speak to | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
conservatives and he is a very tribal figure, he could not have | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
swept in and run the campaign six months ago or a year ago. They | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
deployed Gordon Brown almost as a preacher at the end come to do his | :34:07. | :34:14. | |
classic Scottish Labour thing. It certainly had an impact. On the | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
other side, we saw how Alex Salmond was very much in the picture in the | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
last couple of weeks of campaigning. Nicola Sturgeon had a very obvious | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
role. Every night, night after night, it was Alex Salmond. Was that | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
the right thing to do? He was always pointing out it was not about him, | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
it was a broader movement, but do you think it was the right thing | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
that he always had the main focus? When the history of this is written, | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
I think it will be regarded as a serious mistake. I think the boost | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
to his confidence, he is never really lacking in self-confidence, | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
but the boost to his confidence when he saw it as him having been allowed | :34:54. | :35:02. | |
to be himself, let Alex the Alex, in the second debate, when he was seen | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
to have eaten Alistair Darling, his tail was up and he was determined to | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
lead from the front. The problem was that it left the Nationalists in the | :35:11. | :35:18. | |
final two weeks looking hubristic. Alex Salmond, just at the point when | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
he needed to be reaching out to the don't knows, those that are | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
unconvinced and might have had feared about independence, he | :35:27. | :35:35. | |
instead presented a very tribal face. I think it was the wrong pitch | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
for the final ten days. He looked increasingly frazzled. I think it | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
was a mistake for the leader of any mainstream political party to | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
describe demonstrations against journalist as a joyous affair. I | :35:51. | :35:57. | |
think he was tired and I think he messed up the final ten days of the | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
campaign. Thank you for your analysis of the last couple of | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
weeks. Hollywood is actually fairly quiet at the moment. I think people | :36:07. | :36:16. | |
are getting some much deserved kip. We are joined by Tom Burridge from | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
central Barcelona. There were high hopes among some Catalan | :36:22. | :36:23. | |
nationalists that Scotland would set a precedent. Presumably they are not | :36:24. | :36:30. | |
terribly happy with the outcome? I think that is fair to say. We are in | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
probably the busiest and noisiest Square in Barcelona. There is a band | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
warming up for a regional festival that is kicking off later today. The | :36:42. | :36:44. | |
building behind me, behind the bus full of tourists is, is the Catalan | :36:45. | :36:53. | |
regional government. The equivalent here of Alex Hammond will be | :36:54. | :36:55. | |
speaking at a press conference within the next half-hour. It will | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
be interesting to get his reaction. Last week in an interview he told me | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
he hoped for a Yes Vote. He did not get that, Scotland did not decide | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
yes. It will be interesting to see how candid he is about his | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
disappointment. I spoke to one of his aides earlier and they were | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
trying to put as positive a spin as you like, from a Catalan | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
perspective. They said it is all about the right to vote in | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
Catalonia. The pro-independence movement and the Catalan government | :37:31. | :37:32. | |
have successfully shifted the debate in those terms. It is much more a | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
debate about whether they should have a referendum or not, rather | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
than a debate about independence. As things stand, the Catalan government | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
still plans to hold a vote on November the 9th. But the Spanish | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
government, like David Cameron, has said you will not be able to have | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
that vote, a vote in Catalonia would be illegal. Is there any sign of any | :37:54. | :38:00. | |
movement? I'm slightly alarmed by what that bus driver is doing behind | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
you! Assuming he does not hit you, could you tell us if there is any | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
sign of movement by the Spanish government on this? Yes, this is a | :38:09. | :38:16. | |
pretty chaotic square. Anyway, we will keep going. The central thing | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
here is, no, I don't think so. In the last week or so, we have seen a | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
ramping up of the language by the Spanish government. The Foreign | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
Minister, earlier in the week, basically said there was no measure | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
beyond the use of the Spanish government in stopping the | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
referendum going ahead. They hinted they might even suspend the powers | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
of the regional government, the government in that building behind | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
me, in order to stop the referendum going ahead. On top of that you have | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
the Spanish Constitutional Court, within the next week or so, expected | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
to rule that a referendum would be illegal. If you look at the letter | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
of the law in the Spanish written constitution, we do not have one in | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
Britain but they do in Spain, if you look at the letter of the law it | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
says a referendum passed to have the approval of the Spanish parliament, | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
the majority of the Spanish parliament, and that is controlled | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
by his party and it's impossible to see that happening. Our hearts were | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
in our mouths there, what's that back and you might be rather | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
surprised by what happened! Tim can tell us more about where Scotland | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
and the UK can go now. Hopefully no buses behind me! A | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
decisive No Vote, and Scotland has rejected the offer of independence | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
and gone instead for beefed up Scottish Parliament. What happens | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
next? Well, supporters of the union say they will transfer more powers | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
to Holyrood, guaranteed, but we don't know exactly which ones. On | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
Tuesday, in a statement branded as the vow, the Prime Minister, his | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
deputy and the Labour Leader all declared: | :39:59. | :40:13. | |
The Scottish leaders of labour, Conservatives and the Liberal | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
Democrats also pledged to support a strong Scottish Parliament in a | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
strong United Kingdom and support the further strengthening of | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
parliament powers. That may have swayed voters to the union and away | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
from independence. We still don't know which powers. The three parties | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
don't agree what they should change and they have each set out ideas. | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
Let's look at Labour. The Scottish Parliament currently has the power | :40:40. | :40:42. | |
to vary the standard rate of them tax by 3p in the pound up or down. | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
It has never been used, but it is there. From April 2016, under | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
legislation already in the pipeline, that will be increased to | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
10p in the pound. Labour says go further, make it 15p in the pound | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
under the control of the Scottish Parliament. Any cut in tax would | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
apply equally to standard and upper rates. There will be a special | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
power... Sorry, the upper rates. They would devolve control of | :41:09. | :41:10. | |
housing benefits and attendance allowance. Let's turn to the | :41:11. | :41:18. | |
Conservatives, the party which historically opposed to devolution | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
now wants to add to Holyrood's powers and go further than Labour. | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
They say keep it simple, give the Scottish Parliament full control of | :41:27. | :41:33. | |
income tax rates. The Tories would also devolve some welfare powers, | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
housing benefit and attendance allowance. How about the Liberal | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
Democrats? They want a federal UK. For now, their plan is for more | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
devolution and is more ambitious than the others. They say devolve | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
income tax, capital gains tax and inheritance tax. They would also | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
allow the Scottish Parliament to spend the proceeds of Scottish | :41:54. | :42:06. | |
corporation tax. They want to share power on issues like benefits. They | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
have signed up to a timetable that begins today, with a White Paper | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
setting out the proposed powers by St Andrews Day, with draft | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
legislation to be published by Burns night in January. Then it would be | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
up to whoever wins next May's general election to pass a new | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
Scotland Act. But many politicians at Westminster are not signed up to | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
new powers and they want an answer to the West Lothian question, and | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
perhaps a ban on Scottish MPs voting on English matters. David Cameron | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
promised the change would come for England, Wales and Northern Ireland. | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
Would that be enough? I suspect not for everyone. Scottish Secretary | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
Alistair Carmichael has proposed a meeting of minds, a conference for a | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
new Scotland within 30 days to help discuss the way forward and heal | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
community divisions. After a pretty divisive campaign, the Church of | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
Scotland is holding a service of reconciliation this Sunday. Leaders | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
from both campaigns have been invited. The big question is, now | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
they have lost the campaign, what happens to the SNP and its | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
leadership? Will Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon remain? You said he | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
would, but will more hardline nationalists seek a scalpel for | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
their loss in the referendum? It might be settled by Scottish | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
voters, but many other questions remain. | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
Margaret Mitchell from the Conservatives has joined us. Look, | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
the tragedy of Scottish conservatism is, and Gordon Wilson accepted this | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
when we were talking about it earlier on, almost to the last man | :43:41. | :43:43. | |
and woman, the Scottish middle classes trooped into the polling | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
booths last night to reject nationalism. Yes, a general | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
election, or his Scottish election, they will trooped into the same | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
polling booths and vote for the SNP, UKIP, Labour, or anybody they | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
can think of other than the Scottish Conservatives? Not all together | :44:04. | :44:12. | |
true. Even the election where play has been made of as only having one | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
MP, you look at the number of votes, 3,000 and 10,000 for the | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
Conservative, 3365 for the Liberal Democrats. We got one MP, they got | :44:26. | :44:32. | |
about 11. There is a sizeable and a meaningful Conservative vote. In the | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
referendum, the traditional Conservative areas held up well. In | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
many ways, perhaps we should have been art lating more the business | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
argument to pay for the fairer Scotland that everyone wants to see. | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
. Money does not grow on trees. You take my point. In many ways Scotland | :44:51. | :44:58. | |
is a naturally Conservative Scotland with a small c but you cannot turn | :44:59. | :45:06. | |
it in a capital C. Many of the areas that could be natural Tory | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
territory, you have nothing? What we are looking at is a new beginning | :45:10. | :45:16. | |
for Scotland today. It is exciting for the Scottish electorate and for | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
the Conservatives too to work positively with other parties and we | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
have worked well with the SNP when they were a minority government. We | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
delivered the small business innocent viceation scheme for | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
example. Drug rehabilitation. And Alex Salmond has been on, I think, | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
in a measured way, saying that he is prepared to now look forward and to | :45:40. | :45:42. | |
do what is in the best interest of Scotland. So I see today as a new | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
dawn. But if it is a new dawn But if it | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
really is a new dawn, I think what you may see is a reemergence of the | :45:53. | :45:59. | |
aringment put forward by people like Margo Fraser, that the Scottish | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
Conservative Party is damaged goods. It would be better to set up a | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
moderate centre-right party without the baggage of the historical | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
Conservatives and it may be able to do things that we have been talking | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
about, in terms of making inroads where a centre-right party should | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
be? Is there an argument for that? We should be looking at the | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
constitutional settlement and ensuring stability within the UK, | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
where all parts of the UK can play a significant part in determining its | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
own future and policies. In other words, I think after the referendum | :46:39. | :46:45. | |
the vote was decisive, no-one can be complacent about it, and rightly, | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
the polls sent tremors and shocks through everyone when they suddenly | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
realised that there was a real prospect of Scotland leaving and all | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
it meant. I think that the focus will be less on party politics in | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
the weeks and the months to come, difficult with the Westminster | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
election but more on how to achieve the best settlement for Scotland, | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
the rest of the UK and keep the stability which the electorate has | :47:12. | :47:17. | |
told us that they want to maintain. Thank you very much Margaret | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
Mitchell. Now to Hywel Griffiths in Cardiff. | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
One of the interesting things that is coming out, we heard it from | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
Carwyn Jones earlier, is the Barnet Formula. It is like a religious text | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
in the way it is treated up here. It benefits Scotland so much. It is | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
seen in Wales, of course, as being something that you would like to | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
amend severely or abolish, so a bit of a contradiction going on there, | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
isn't there? Yes. Sacrosanct in Scotland, sacrilege here. The Barnet | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
Formula, that we have been told by the Welsh Government, must be | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
changed. They say it is outdated. The problem for the Labour's Carwyn | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
Jones, for other leaders here, is that the vow had the words Barnet | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
Formula in the middle of it. The people of Scotland have taken their | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
decision on the basis that the Barnet Formula will stay. So when | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
asked how do you square that circle, he pointed to other pledges in the | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
vow, saying that there would be fair and e-Equitable funding for all of | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
the UK but it is a problem for him, when he have to give up the ghost on | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
that one, I don't know. But it will be difficult for Wales to argue that | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
they need more money from Barnet, when the people from Scotland have | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
taken that decision. I got the impression from Carwyn | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
Jones that he had listened with glee to what David Cameron was saying | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
this morning. I got the sense that the Welsh | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
Parliament or at least, that he thinks, that there was a huge | :48:59. | :49:01. | |
opportunity for Wales here. That everything was wide open again? I | :49:02. | :49:09. | |
think that would be the optimistic take on it. David Cameron when stood | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
in Number Ten saying that Wales should be the centre of the debate, | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
are the words that people here want to hear. But Carwyn Jones went on | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
the attack, he said that the Prime Minister had almost sleep walked | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
into disaster over Scotland. He had ignored calls from Carwyn Jones and | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
others for a full convention on the UK's constitution, and demanded a | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
place at the table. I don't think there is love lost there. When I put | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
it to Carwyn Jones since the result been in, had he spoken to David | :49:44. | :49:50. | |
Cameron, had he received a call? No. Were they making a call? But he did | :49:51. | :49:58. | |
accept that it was a busy day. Now, to Berlin, to Jenny Hill. | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
Jenny, has there been any reaction there to the vote here? Well, yes, | :50:03. | :50:09. | |
in fact in the last few minutes, the Foreign Minister for Germany said | :50:10. | :50:11. | |
that this was a good decision for Scotland. In the words of the | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
government's official spokesperson here, this is the story of the day. | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
That said, the official government response to the decision has been | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
somewhat muted. They commented on the impressive turnout on a clear | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
decision. Behind the scenes, though, it is a different story. Listen to | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
the words of one politician here this morning. She said that this | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
prevents the fragmentation of Europe. She was hugely relieved. | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
That is what has been going on behind the scenes. Ministers were | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
very concerned about a possible UK referendum on EU membership. Their | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
thinking is going along the lines: Scottish voters tend to be more | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
pro-Europe than counterparts in England, without the Scottish | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
voters, what happens in the event of that UK referendum? So behind the | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
scenes is great deal of relief. The referendum has very much caught the | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
imagination, though, of the people living in Germany. The Mel Gibson | :51:11. | :51:21. | |
film, Braveheart is popular here. Many say that the... Sorry, Jenny, | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
we are losing the sound from you. Thank you very much. | :51:27. | :51:38. | |
Now, we have been catching up with a Shetland face, that of Douglas | :51:39. | :51:45. | |
Henshaw. He said he was surprised by the result. | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
If you had asked me about it three weeks ago, I would have said no. But | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
there appears to have been such a surge. It is very difficult. | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
I think it depends on who you are speaking to. | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
If you are speaking to like-minded people, it seems that the swell that | :52:04. | :52:06. | |
you think is going on is perhaps much bigger than it was. I was not | :52:07. | :52:12. | |
talking to farmers on the borders or whatever, I was speaking to a lot of | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
people involved in either the arts or slightly, my friends, most of | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
them, they are left-wing, we were all thinking that maybe, just maybe, | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
we could have pulled it off. Was that central belt Glasgow side? | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
Yes but even old friends in Edinburgh, in Aberdeen... So, no, I | :52:34. | :52:41. | |
expected it to be tighter than that. Now, here is Jeremy vine with a | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
summary of all of the night's statistics. Let's look at the margin | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
of victory. You can see how wide the gap is. The nos on 55%. The yeses on | :52:50. | :52:59. | |
45%. So a 10% point gap. More than the polls were telling us that there | :53:00. | :53:03. | |
would be in the run-up to the voting. The map has been coloured. | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
Here it is, Scotland after the historic referendum. A colour in the | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
areas that voted mainly no are red. And you can see how many there are. | :53:14. | :53:19. | |
In fact just four council areas that went for yes. Glasgow and | :53:20. | :53:25. | |
surrounding and up in the north-east, Dundee in green. Coming | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
back to the wall and the 32 councils in the battleground. Here are the | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
results. You struggle to find the councils that voted yes. They there | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
four of them. The yes vote did win in Glasgow. The biggest council with | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
500,000 people in it and in North Lanarkshire, another big council. | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
But Edinburgh, Fife, South Lanarkshire, the other big councils | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
went no. As did many of the others. In fact, the first results in were | :53:53. | :53:59. | |
the small councils, all going no. It was only Dundee City that said yes. | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
Four in total, then. You see how dramatic the result is when I ice | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
lay the yeses and the noes. Here are the only four yeses down this side. | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
All of the rest are no. Down the wall here, they become more | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
convincing. So the biggest margins on this side, Orkney and Shetland | :54:23. | :54:29. | |
and Scottish Borders and Dumfries and Galloway, in Conservative areas, | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
close to the border with England. They did not want to break up with | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
the UK. So looking at the result, it is certainly decisive, maybe not a | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
whitewash but a definite and a convincing win for the noes. | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
While that was going on, we have been joined by Kenny | :54:51. | :54:52. | |
McAfghanistanily, the Justice Minister. Let me ask you this, I am | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
not clear, what role the Scottish Government would like to play in the | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
measures that David Cameron outlined today? Are you going to, as it were, | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
formally try to be a part of this process? Yes. We have said that we | :55:09. | :55:16. | |
are happy to co-operate. But it is incumbent on David Cameron, not just | :55:17. | :55:23. | |
him but Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg to give us the detail. Our | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
opportunity is to work with them. It may be that we have to challenge | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
them if they are not going far enough. But initially we have to | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
take the spirit... Do you know if the Scottish Government has been | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
approached in a formal sense? Not so far. Things have happened so | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
suddenly with the vow appearing in the front pages. Gordon Brown coming | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
into the fray. So I think that what we do is expect the words from the | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
Prime Minister, that he is looking to engage. We make it clear we are | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
here to support the best interests of the Scottish people. We accept | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
the result of the referendum but it is now up to them to spell out the | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
powers. There is a clear difference between each of the parties that | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
support the union. Thank you very much. | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
We will come back to you, Kenny. For those who missed it, here is a | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
summary of the momentous us events of the last 24 hours. | :56:18. | :56:32. | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. The majority of valid votes cast | :56:33. | :57:18. | |
yesterday by the people of Scotland in response to the referendum | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
question: Should Scotland be an independent country, were in favour | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
of no. Today is a momentous result for | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
Scotland and also for the United Kingdom as a whole. We have | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
reaffirmed all that we have in common and the bonds that tie us | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
together. Let them never be broken. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. | :57:43. | :57:50. | |
On behalf of the Scottish Government, I accept the result. The | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
Unionist parties made vows late in the campaign to devolve more powers | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
to Scotland. Scotland will expect these to be | :58:02. | :58:04. | |
honoured in rapid course. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. | :58:05. | :58:21. | |
Well, it is midday. Let's pause for a moment and remind ourselves of | :58:22. | :59:09. | |
what happened during the momentous hours of last evening. Perhaps you | :59:10. | :59:14. | |
haven't seen it, perhaps even if you have seen what happened already, you | :59:15. | :59:17. | |
would quite like to see it again. Here is Kevin keen. Yes, 140,178. No | :59:18. | :59:38. | |
139,738. This is the moment when the referendum result was confirmed. | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
140,000 voters in Fife would take the no support beyond the finish | :59:45. | :59:52. | |
line with votes still to count. Soon afterwards, the First Minister | :59:53. | :59:55. | |
accepted the result and praised the people of Scotland for an 86% | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
turnout. But he had this message for his Westminster counterparts. On | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
behalf of the Scottish Government, I accept the result and I pledge to | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
work constructively in the interests of Scotland and the rest of the | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
United Kingdom. Secondly, the Unionist parties made vows late in | :00:13. | :00:21. | |
the campaign to devolve more powers to Scotland. Scotland will expect | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
these to be honoured in rapid course. The Prime Minister went | :00:25. | :00:32. | |
further, announcing powers being devolved to all four nations on the | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
same timescale to that being offered to Scotland. Lord Smith of Kelvin, | :00:36. | :00:42. | |
who so successfully led Glasgow's Commonwealth Games, has agreed to | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
oversee the process to take forward these devolution commitments with | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
powers over tax, spending and welfare, all agreed by November and | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
draft legislation published by January. Just as the people of | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
Scotland will have more power over their affairs, so it follows that | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland must have a bigger | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
say over theirs. This had been a long night and it would be several | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
hours before the picture would become clear. The first result came | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
in at 1:30, with someone clearly keen to hear the result by phone. | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
Yes, 16,350. No, 19,000... The people of Clackmannanshire voted | :01:24. | :01:46. | |
no, setting the tone for the night. At the Better Together | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
headquarters, the mood was buoyant. No knowledge of what was to come, | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
but a confidence that lasted through the night. This Labour Party is | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
determined to show over the coming years that we can be the vehicle for | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations, for a better life for | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
you, a better life for Scotland and a better life for the whole of the | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
United Kingdom. Among the first to declare wordy islands, with the | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
Western Isles results initially coming in Gaelic. | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
The language might have been different, but the result was the | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
same, still nothing for the guest side. The face of the campaign | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
chairman appeared to say at all. On the streets of Glasgow, the initial | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
losing streak did not dampen the party atmosphere. Hundreds were in | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
George Square to mark an important day in Scotland's history. The | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
spirits here were nothing but high. Yes, 53,000... Dundee was the first | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
to go to yes, it was decisive and made the race neck and neck. And | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
then the biggest moment of the night, when yes took the lead. For a | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
full five minutes, the glum faces were gone and it was high fives all | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
around. The yes count stood at 50.2% of those counted. Then it would | :03:11. | :03:27. | |
crumble. No, 37,153. No, 62,700. No, 70,039. I didn't want independence | :03:28. | :03:40. | |
at any point. As a young person, I want to live in an independent | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
Scotland when I am older, but now that opportunity is gone. I'm | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
disappointed, but I think Alex Hammond was right when he said we | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
should not look at how badly things have gone for the campaign but how | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
far we have travelled. The 32 council and of almost flawlessly, | :04:01. | :04:02. | |
apart from in Dundee, where a fire alarm twice forced the evacuation of | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
the counting hall. A few brave police officers guarded the ballot | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
papers until they returned. The majority of valid votes cast | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
yesterday by the people of Scotland in response to the referendum | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
question, should Scotland be an independent country, were in favour | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
of no. The Chief Counting Officer's moment was stolen will stop by the | :04:27. | :04:34. | |
tame --. By the time the declaration was made, it was all over. For some, | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
it was too much. Shortly after 5am, the BBC called the referendum, with | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
the people of Scotland rejecting independence. It is the end of | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
chapter one, but the full story is yet to be written. | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
Tom Greatrex has turned into Gemma Doyle, in an extraordinary | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
development. He was able to sit here and proudly say that South | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
Lanarkshire had voted no. Unfortunately you don't have the | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
same ability to say about your constituency, do you? It seems to | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
have voted yes. It did, indeed. The overall result was the one that I | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
was interested in last night. Why do you think that in all of the | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
traditional, working areas, they were the ones that voted yes? It's | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
an interesting comparison. I think the SNP traditional areas, where | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
they have MPS, seemed to have voted no. This is a problem for you, you | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
have failed to convince your own traditional, working-class, Labour | :05:44. | :05:52. | |
base of your case? There was a majority of Labour voters in my area | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
that voted no, and I know that from the doorsteps. A lot of people were | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
looking for change, a lot of people had been badly affected by what the | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
current Lib Dem government is doing. These are people that said, OK, | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
where do we get a change from? Because you have not developed a | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
political narrative that tells him it is something other than | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
nationalism? They opted to think it was through independence they would | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
get that change. That's a failure of your own party, surely? I say again, | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
the majority of people... It doesn't matter, you still have a majority | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
who voted yes there. Our base, the majority of people that say they | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
vote Labour in West Dunbartonshire voted no. Other people who have | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
never voted in their lives before came to the polling station | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
yesterday to vote and it looks as if perhaps they came to vote yes. | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
People were coming to vote for something, they are looking for | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
change. Neither Westminster or the Scottish Government are offering | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
much change at the moment. I'm pretty clear it is the Labour Party | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
that would make a difference to those people's lives. You heard some | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
of the people that were disappointed, yes voters. You would | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
accept that is it, that is the end of all of this talk about | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
referendums for at least ten, 15, perhaps 20 years? We said it was | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
once in a generation. We have to accept the result. I'm immensely | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
proud of the campaign. The 1.6 million that voted, the 45%, which I | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
think is a stunning figure, I would not have it downplayed. Your | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
colleague from Westminster was seeking to do that. But we now have | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
to to see what is going to be delivered. The No Campaign have won | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
on the basis of pledging more powers. They have to be specified | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
and they have to be delivered. We are here to support that we do have | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
these powers spelled-out and we do have to have them delivered. Many | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
people who would otherwise have voted yes voted no in anticipation | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
of the likelihood of powers being granted. Do you think Alex Salmond | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
should stay on? Absolutely. Until one? Until he chooses to leave | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
office. Would you like to see him lead you into the next Scottish | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
election? I would be delighted if he were to do so. Have you spoken to | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
him and do you think it is his intention? I was at the event with | :08:26. | :08:33. | |
him early in the morning. Margaret Mitchell, let me ask you what I call | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
the George Soros question. Let's say David Cameron gets his way and there | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
is a referendum on the European Union and Britain votes to leave the | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
European Union, but Scotland votes to state, is there a strong case for | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
saying we should have another referendum because Scotland will | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
have decided on a different course than Britain? I think in the first | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
place, Scotland will be pleased to have a say in the referendum in | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
Europe. There is no doubt that there are changes very badly needed there. | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
If you look at the case where every month, 766 MEPs go to Strasbourg, at | :09:11. | :09:20. | |
huge cost, these things have to be reformed. But there is no appetite. | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
It has been a decisive decision. Even if we vote to stay in the | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
European Union and Britain votes to go, there should not be a | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
referendum? I cannot see that Scotland will be so very different, | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
even if you look at the European elections where we were confidently | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
told that UKIP would not ever have a seat in Scotland because Scotland is | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
so different from the rest of the United Kingdom. That clearly didn't | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
take place. I think Scottish people would want their say and want reform | :09:50. | :09:57. | |
as the rest of the Isaac and do. -- United Kingdom do. Andrew has spent | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
the morning in his bubble, hunting for politicians in Edinburgh. Have | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
you found one or have you found somebody that makes whiskey? It is a | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
politics free zone right now, unusually. I have found some | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
industry reaction. It is the 3rd biggest industry in Scotland. I am | :10:17. | :10:24. | |
going to speak to David Frost from the Scottish Whisky Association. | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
Everybody's reaction to this event, how is the industry reacting? We | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
always said there were risks in independence. That is the position | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
we have taken through the campaign. We are glad those risks are not | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
going to crystallise and we archive that there is a clear result, | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
stability going forward. Because you are an industry that likes long-term | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
stability, you are putting stuff in casks that you are going to see in | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
another 18 years, but with another referendum you did not know what was | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
happening in three days? We do still, it goes into the cask, it | :11:00. | :11:07. | |
comes out 18 years later. -- he still dashed still. Not knowing what | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
the currency might be is a big element of instability. We are glad | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
that debate is closed. You mentioned currency, in terms of instability, | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
was that your main concern? What other issues did you have? The main | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
concern was around support for exports. We depend massively on | :11:28. | :11:29. | |
support of the British government around the world. We are highly | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
regulated, government set the rules around the world, we need the | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
support of our own government to deal with those trade barriers and | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
encourage exports. Being part of a big country with a big, successful | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
diplomatic service is really important to this industry. It's | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
interesting you talk about being part of the big country, we were | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
talking earlier about accusations of how the Prime Minister had | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
orchestrated a response from business to come out against the Yes | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
Campaign. Was your industry involved in that? Were you ever approached? | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
We have conversations with everybody in this campaign on both sides of | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
the debate all the time, since the beginning. We are not orchestrated | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
by anybody. We have not been discouraged from speaking by | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
anybody. We have had a very clear view as an industry, and we felt | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
happy exposing that throughout. We have the promise of more powers for | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
Holyrood, perhaps this is more uncertainty once again. How are you | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
going to deal with this issue? There is going to be a big debate about | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
devolution going forward. We are very keen and ready to be part of | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
the debate. We want two things from it. One is arrangements that support | :12:44. | :12:52. | |
the Scotch whiskey industry, that help us export and provide skills | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
that we need. Second, arrangements that support the is in this climate | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
more broadly in Scotland. One of the things you can see as a result of | :13:01. | :13:02. | |
the referendum is that there are many people to whom the prosperity | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
of this country has not yet fully spread. I think business, | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
politicians, everybody needs to work together to make sure over the next | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
few years that it reaches everybody. You highlighted some of your | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
concerns about independence. Do you feel the referendum was a | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
constructive process? That's so many views were out there, they were | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
aired and discussed? I thought it was pretty inspiring to hear people | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
from all backgrounds, all parts of Scotland talking about issues that | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
are often thought to be too complicated. Currency unions, | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
whatever, difficult stuff about economic 's. It's great you can have | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
that kind of debate. We absolutely welcome it. The more people out | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
there who understand business, understand the economic climate, can | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
only be good for us as an industry. I suppose some people will be | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
raising a wee dram to celebrate or maybe commiserate tonight. Maybe | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
even now if they pass the yard, I am not sure. People have been up a long | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
time. You have been up too long, Andrew, | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
it is just mid-day! Tim is here with us. | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
Now we know that Scotland voted to reject the idea of independence. The | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
figures on the right-hand side, 55% voted no, 45% voted yes. But an idea | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
of how Scotland voted on this map of Scotland. These places and Dundee | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
here which voted yes to independence. If we look at the | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
constituencies, Dundee, clearly it was the big yes to independence. | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
The figure there is showing 57% voted for yes and had 3% no. 79 | :14:53. | :15:00. | |
period turnout, slightly lower than areas but a bigger number of people | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
voting for independence in Dundee. It was called the SNP City, so no | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
surprise. Clackmannanshire on the other hand, was one that the yes | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
side needed to win to get a yes vote. | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
I will try that again... Clackmannanshire... Sorry, the board | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
is not working. We will try one more time. There we go. Clackmannanshire | :15:25. | :15:32. | |
was expected to go for yes but 46/54, mirroring the polls that | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
showed that the no side were going to win. Going back to Moray it is | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
represented obviously by Angus Robertson, the SNP leader at | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
Westminster. You would have expected, sorry, I think that the | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
touch screen is tired, it has been working all night. 58% said no, 42% | :15:53. | :16:04. | |
yes. Glasgow, had a slightly lower turn out than perhaps ex-peckeded, | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
though more than at the general election of the last Scottish | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
elections, 75% of the electorate turned out to vote. 53% said yes, | :16:12. | :16:22. | |
47% said no. So looking in proportion at the quiz themselves... | :16:23. | :16:30. | |
-- constituencies themselves, the big areas, Glasgow, Edinburgh, South | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
Lanarkshire, Fife, the biggest ones, two of those voted for independence. | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
Perhaps that is why it did not happen. The smallest ones in the | :16:39. | :16:47. | |
other end of the board there voted against independence by a large | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
majority. Finally, a look at the map again, you can see that 55/45 | :16:52. | :16:59. | |
figure. You can see by how much the "yes" side were short. 191 compel | :17:00. | :17:11. | |
969, which is why the no side won. A record turn out for Scotland, 85%. | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
That gives something for the politicians to hope for in the next | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
election in eight months' time. Cameron Buttal is in in St Jon's | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
Square in Glasgow. What do you have there? Can you hear | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
me? Yes. I have been out and about in Glasgow | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
since the early hours. I have to say to begin with, there was not much of | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
a sense that this was the momentous day that we have been talking about, | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
there is lots of media here from all over the world but what has happened | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
recently is that the crowds are starting to gather. People turning | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
up, talking, this is not a Yes Campaign rally by any means. People | :18:02. | :18:12. | |
are talking, there are a couple of signs saying Redtories -- Red | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
Tories. George Square has been a vocal point | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
for the campaign. There is yes chalked into the | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
pavement there. They have been disappointed by the turnout here. I | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
have been speaking to a couple of people. One man walking around with | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
a Labour rosette on his chest. He was saying he has been getting | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
negative reaction today. Some guys with yes badges on, puffing out | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
their chests. A bit of anger there and disappointment. Jim Murphy, I | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
shouted to him, how was he doing. He said he was happy. But the crowd is | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
good-natured, occasionally a bit of jeering and niggling but on the | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
whole good reactions so far in George Square. | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
Margaret Mitchell, you were talking earlier on about a new dawn, we are | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
going to have a different sort of politics in Scotland, aren't we? For | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
the first time in as long as I can remember, it will not be possibly to | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
have a politics based on one side with X and the other side saying no, | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
we would be better off with independence? Absolutely. The | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
positive is that we will be concentrating on the issues that | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
matter for so long. The debate has been all about the constitution. I | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
think that today it is a new dawn moving forward. Everyone is wanting | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
what is best in Scotland. I hope that will be reflected in the | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
Parliament. I know that SNP have worked hard. We have colleagues | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
there. They could not have done anymore. Equally we worked really | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
hard. That sense will prevail. Often Holyrood gets the mood right in the | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
chamber. That will happen next week. This is a challenge for the Scottish | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
National Party, if it is to have a point to its existence from now on. | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
You cannot bang on about independence, when it has been | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
rejacked, what do you do? Do you become a UK federalist type of | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
party? With all respect, Gordon, 45% of the population have voted for it. | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
1. 6 million people. I accept the result of the referendum. I accept | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
that a no vote has the majority. In accord with the Edinburgh Agreement, | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
I will abide by that. I now think that yes, we have to recognise that. | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
But it is now, as I say, over to the Westminster parties to deliver the | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
increased devolution that they said would be coming. This was a promise | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
and a pledge. A vow, I think, on the front page of the Daily Record. They | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
have to spell it out, they have to deliver it. | :20:58. | :21:05. | |
OK. We will go now to David Porter. At a | :21:06. | :21:14. | |
more seenic location. We have come to this part of London, | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
Westminster, the story that impacts on Westminster, the more gazebos, | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
the platforms on College Green that you see outside of the, I can tell | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
you, there many. There is a huge amount of interest in this story. | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
Not from the domestic media but the international media as well. That is | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
because people realise that what has happened in Scotland, it was a | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
momentous night in Scotland, not as much so as some would have wanted | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
but nothing will be the same again. There will be constitutional change | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
in Scotland. It looks a though, if what we are hearing is to be | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
correct, that there will be change in the constitution, and there is | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
the demand for it in other parts of the United Kingdom. But that is not | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
to say that there are not voices coming out questioning the decisions | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
of David Cameron, to make an offer of more powers to the Scottish | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
Parliament, during the referendum campaign and now a growing number of | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
Conservative MPs saying it is fine that Scotland will get more powers | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
but what is England to get in response? I have had a quick word | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
with the chairman of the Tory 1922 shop's committee. I had a word with | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
Graham Brady. He said he had spoken to the Prime Minister. He said that | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
he thought that the Prime Minister judged the speech in Downing Street | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
about right. There was not much anger that Scotland would get more | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
powers, what he said was that he and English colleagues wanted to make | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
sure in his words that "England got a fair deal as well." | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
David, thank you very much. And now Stephen is at Aberdeen | :22:58. | :23:05. | |
Harbour. Aberdeenshire voted no. Aberdeen | :23:06. | :23:13. | |
Harboures is busy as ever. It would have continued to be busy. Northern | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
gas companies continuing to pump out gas from Scotland whatever the | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
result. The reactions from the companies that represent the area, | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
oil and gas saying that it looks forward to working with the Scottish | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
and UK governments and the Wood report, that is about getting the | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
gas out of the sea, that is sticking to the claim that is controversial | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
during the referendum campaign, that there could be as much as 12 to 24 | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
billion barrels of oil left in the North Sea. Aberdeen and Grampian | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
Chamber of Commerce are again happy that the uncertainty is over. It was | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
talking about projects being put on hold. About people putting house | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
moves on hold. It is also looking forward to the Wood Report. | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
Aberdeen, we know from earlier analysis, parts of it, the | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
middle-class, voted no. Perhaps people in the oil and gas industry | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
looking to their future. Now, how has result of the | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
referendum been seen in Brussels? I spoke to Chris Morris earlier. I | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
asked him if there had been immediate response in Brussels. | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
There has. If you want to use a word it is probably "relief" they would | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
not put it that way themselves. But we have had statements from the | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
European Commission and thing is of NATO, welcoming the fact that | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
Scotland has decided to stay with the United Kingdom. Brass Barroso -- | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
Jose Manuel Durao Barroso saying that the no vote is good for a | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
united, open and stronger Europe. And in particular taking note of the | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
fact that the Scottish Government argued for a pro-European | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
perspective throughout the campaign. The statement went out of its way to | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
say that they would continue to work with the Scottish Government closely | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
on the issues that it is concerned with. Environment, climate change, | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
smarter regulation. So a bit of a sigh of relief overall. | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
The independence of Scotland, thes eggs of part of an existing member | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
state would have raised a whole host of questions that many people here | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
in not just Brussels but others in the European capitals did not want | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
to address. And a double significancy, it is | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
partly where the European Union institutions are based but Belgium | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
itself, they have tendency towards splitting up. I wonder if there has | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
been reaction from Belgium politicians as opposed to EU ones? | :25:54. | :26:01. | |
Well, last night Flemish separatists were demonstrating in favour of a | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
yes in Brussels as the counting began. | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
They will certainly be disappointed. But the one reaction that I have | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
seen from a Flemish separatist party was along the lines from what I have | :26:15. | :26:17. | |
seen from the Catalan government in Spain. Simply the fact of holding | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
the referendum is for them significant. The fact that there can | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
be a constitutional route. A peaceful constitutional route to | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
decide these questions. Obviously governments tend to prefer the | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
status quo, I think what happened last night, while there may be those | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
across Europe who would have liked to have seen a yes, the fact that | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
the process took place has given some people who do favour a | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
different form of government in other European countries a | :26:48. | :26:49. | |
considerable degree of hope, I think. | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
That was Chris Morris. Now, for the first time, 16 and | :26:55. | :27:04. | |
17-year-olds were able to vote. Kristina renton spoke to two school | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
boys in Glasgow. How do you feel about the result? I voted yes, so I | :27:09. | :27:17. | |
am obviously a little disappointed. Why did you want a yes vote? The | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
fact that Scotland is constantly governed bytories when it does not | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
vote for it a lot of the time it is not democratic. With independence | :27:30. | :27:31. | |
you get the government you vote for every time. | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
What about doing it at school? How did it feel? Did you feel you got | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
the information that you needed, that you felt you were old enough to | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
be able to make such an important decision? Definitely old enough. 16, | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
you are old enough to move out, get a job, get married. This decision | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
affects us as much as everyone in Scotland. | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
Simon, what did you think of the result today? I voted no. So I am | :28:00. | :28:02. | |
happy. But I think that the main thing is | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
that 86% voted. So for the home nation it | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
encapsulated politics. Do you think it engaged you in a way | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
that maybe would no have happened otherwise if this had not been | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
happening while at the age that you are at and have the opportunities? | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
Definitely. What did it feel like to vote for | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
the first time? It was a bit weird as I had not done it before. | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
Did you feel powerful? In a way, a wee bit. | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
Every vote counts, so... What comes out of this for everybody is a that | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
this is something you have done for your age group. Is it something that | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
you will do again? Definitely. Definitely. Matthew, will it make | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
you interested in voting in the future. There is a general election | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
coming up, the Scottish elections, who knows what else? What do you | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
think? When I am 18, I will vote in the election. I have an interest in | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
it. If you have the right to vote, you are daft not to. If it affects | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
your future, take advantage of it. At school, there was a referendum do | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
you have the result? We find that out next week! | :29:17. | :29:24. | |
It has truly been a national conversation. In the last few years, | :29:25. | :29:35. | |
the result has been fierce and passionate. The result will mean | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
that a significant number are disappointed. We are best friends. | :29:40. | :29:48. | |
Really? It has always been rigorous, rarely rancorous. But | :29:49. | :29:57. | |
there have been some moments. You are redcoats! With your 30 pieces of | :29:58. | :30:06. | |
silver! OK, I'll give you 30 pieces of silver to shut up! Traitor! John | :30:07. | :30:13. | |
Prescott was courting labour voters for the No Campaign. Such | :30:14. | :30:20. | |
high-profile visitors have attracted counter demonstrations from the | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
opposite side. But with so many people are prepared to come out onto | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
the streets to show their support for each camp, will it be possible | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
for the country to come together again now the result is known? One | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
big name in the campaign, Margo MacDonald, has not been able to take | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
part personally. But her message has been taken around the country by her | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
widower, who told a memorial service after her death of her hopes after | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
the result. At one minute past ten, whatever the result, she wanted | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
those divisions to end and this nation to seek a unity of purpose. | :30:57. | :31:08. | |
If Margo could debate without conceding one iota of principle, but | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
do so without venom, so can we all. If she could respect the right of | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
the other side to their opinions, so can we all. That is what happened in | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
Quebec in 1995. The no side prevailed with a tiny margin, 50.6%, | :31:26. | :31:32. | |
dust 50,000 votes from an electorate only slightly larger than | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
Scotland's today. Observers say, despite that, Canada was not written | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
asunder, notwithstanding the divisions there was subsequent | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
consensus that the referendum had been a vitally important matter. | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
There was recognition that it had been a very bruising experience for | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
the electorate in Quebec. It was a close result, but it was also a | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
result that really mattered. It was not a close result won an issue that | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
was not important to people. One of the key battle grounds of the | :32:06. | :32:07. | |
referendum campaign has been business and commerce. Business | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
leaders insist it is uncertainty they are against. Now we know the | :32:11. | :32:21. | |
outcome, the Minister for industry says that Scotland remains open for | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
business. The sooner that the Scottish Government can provide real | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
inside, the sooner business will be reassured, will be able to pass on | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
that reassurance to the workforce, to their investors and, most | :32:35. | :32:42. | |
importantly, to the customers, to demonstrate that Scotland remains a | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
good place to do business. The Church of Scotland is holding a | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
reconciliation service at Saint Giles Cathedral in Edinburgh on | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
Sunday. The moderator believes the recent national conversation will | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
leave Scots society stronger. The remarkable thing about this campaign | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
has been that so many people have been involved. Not in my lifetime | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
has there been any issue over which the civic voice of Scotland has been | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
heard so clearly. When you have a process which generates that much | :33:14. | :33:16. | |
involvement and that much interest, that must be good. What we need | :33:17. | :33:24. | |
after the referendum is the same amount of civic involvement, all on | :33:25. | :33:32. | |
the same side. With a heavy turnout, it is inevitable many people will be | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
disappointed today. How that is managed holds the key to the future | :33:38. | :33:38. | |
for all of Scotland. Can I return with you three to the | :33:39. | :33:52. | |
16, 17 and 18-year-olds that we saw in that conversation earlier on? | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
Think I am right in saying that Labour's policy is now that and | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
17-year-olds should be given a vote in all elections? That is right. I | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
presume, having done it with the referendum, your policy would be | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
that the practice should be spread? We have managed to deliver it, they | :34:14. | :34:21. | |
have taken to it as a duck to water, and we should welcome their | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
engagement. They are part of this fantastic turnout. I think 16 and | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
17-year-olds rose to the challenge, if you can call it that, they did it | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
with pride and we should take pride in them. Margaret Mitchell, you | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
cannot speak for the Coalition Government because you are not a | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
Liberal Democrat, but what the Conservative position? We did not | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
vote for 16 and 17-year-olds having the vote. I think the policy in | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
Scotland is very confused. It wasn't long ago that the SNP were proposing | :34:53. | :34:55. | |
that young people had to be 21 before they could even purchase | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
alcohol. There is so much legislation... You're not in favour? | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
I think it needs radically looked at, this point in time, for the | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
referendum we were not. I think it was probably introduced in the first | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
place because Alex Salmond knows that page with would be | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
predominantly in favour. Hasn't the way that youngsters got involved in | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
this debate done anything to change your mind? Absolutely, it needs to | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
be looked at again and a consistent policy adopted for every election | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
and for every single issue an statute where we are looking at the | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
rights of young people. Reconciliation, Kenny MacAskill. We | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
have be looked in a hot studio four hours, I don't know what is going on | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
outside. One gets the impression from what Cameron was seeing at | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
George Square that it has been a bit overblown, everything is fine? | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
Absolutely, that is why we saw a briefing being put out by the | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
President of the Scottish Federation. All of this has been | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
achieved without the loss of one life, without the explosion of one | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
bomb, the firing of one dollar to. There has been some passionate | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
discord, some disharmony. We have shown that democratic decisions can | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
be done democratically and peacefully and Scotland can and | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
should walk tall. What do you make of this? I was struck yesterday when | :36:29. | :36:36. | |
I went to vote, just being about the place, it all seemed quite | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
extraordinarily good-natured. I am not sure that has been the case | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
everywhere. Maybe not in the campaign, but I meant yesterday, | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
during voting? One of my volunteers was punched in the face. One of my | :36:50. | :36:56. | |
polling stations was covered in threatening refugee as well. But | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
that was a great opportunity for whoever... Is this the James Dunne | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
one? A great opportunity for a painter and decorator. He came and | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
blanket out again. I think it was about ten o'clock in the morning | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
before anybody came to do it. It has been an energetic campaign, but has | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
been quite divisive. At times we have seen too much aggression. | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
Particular journalists being targeted for asking the First | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
Minister questions, that has been, in my opinion, disgraceful. What we | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
need now is reconciliation not, as some people were threatening, a day | :37:35. | :37:37. | |
of reckoning for people that were not going to vote yes. OK, be fair, | :37:38. | :37:46. | |
Alex Salmond distanced himself from the day of reckoning, Jim Sillars | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
did as well. I have to say, it is true to say, you get some daft folk | :37:53. | :38:05. | |
in any campaign. In my area, my entire town is vandalised with Yes | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
stuff that has been stuck everywhere. Our posters were | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
spray-painted, somebody going along with a set of stepladders | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
spray-painting over every one of our posters, in Yes T-shirts. Some of | :38:21. | :38:30. | |
this could have been stopped. We should have heard a strong message | :38:31. | :38:33. | |
from the Yes Campaign. What do you think will happen now, in the area? | :38:34. | :38:41. | |
Will you be able to come together and agree to disagree on the | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
behaviour during the campaign, let's get on with it? Is that possible? | :38:45. | :38:52. | |
Part of it comes back to what we were talking about before, the SNP | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
have to decide if they are going to work with the Scottish parties on | :38:57. | :39:03. | |
the further devolution proposals. We have got to recognise that we have | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
seen one of the BBC correspondent in George Square, saying Jim Murphy | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
walked through, he was not attacked, he was not leafleted. We have come | :39:12. | :39:22. | |
through with this significant decision. I regret we did not win, | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
but I am proud of what Scotland has achieved. I think we will come | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
together, we know there has been division within families, but I | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
think when Jim Sellers spoke, what he spoke of in terms of the | :39:37. | :39:43. | |
arrangements for Margo MacDonald's funeral, that is the view of the | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
majority of people in Scotland. We are one Scotland, we have to go | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
forward, we had to have the plan spelt out by the parties in | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
Westminster. We believe it should be delivered as speedily as possible. | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
Give us the detail and we will happily work with it. I cannot work | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
with what I do not know and do not have. But I can give you this | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
commitment that we are happy to put our shoulder to the wheel and what | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
we want is the detail and we want the delivery. I welcome the fact | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
that we seem to be bringing forward the debate, although we have to bear | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
in mind it is only a draft bill that is being talked about later in the | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
year by the Prime Minister. That is progress. What they expect us to see | :40:23. | :40:33. | |
the delivery of what they were given and committed to, and then they will | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
be delighted to support it and try to implement it. But we have got to | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
see the detail and it has to live up to what was committed as significant | :40:42. | :40:49. | |
powers. You have gone very quiet? On your original bastion, everybody was | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
delighted on the size of the turnout. That was very decisive, | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
people saying we will accept the will of the Scottish people, no | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
matter what it is. Even if it was one vote, because so many people | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
came out to vote. You think people will be able to reconcile? We would | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
like to hear a little less of we want to sit the detail. Shoulder to | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
the wheel means we have an active part to play, Kenny, too. Business | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
came out, when they saw that 51% of vote, there is no sentiment in | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
business, they have to be listened to, they have to be brought into the | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
equation. I hope that we can talk in a meaningful way to move forward, | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
for the constitutional arrangement, where everybody is going to get the | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
best for every part of the United Kingdom. That might not mean exactly | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
what we proposed here. It could be going further into things. It means | :41:45. | :41:52. | |
what we proposed is on the statute, absolutely, but going further to | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
look at a more federal system, UK wide. That means active | :41:57. | :42:03. | |
participation of the SNP. Did I just hear a Conservative saying federal | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
system, UK wide? This really is a new Dawn! Isn't it effectively what | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
we are looking at it more powers are granted and given to the rest of the | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
United Kingdom? There is an appetite for that in the rest of England. | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
Now, it is a thought that has crossed most people's mind, what | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
does the First Minister do now? Kenny MacAskill says stay on for | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
ever. Last night was a culmination of a lifetime's career. Let's look | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
back at his political career so far. This young lad from Linlithgow | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
became a young man with a plan. Alexander Elliott Salmond signed up | :42:41. | :42:49. | |
to the Scottish National Party at university. A student with a keen | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
sense of Scottish history, he became a man with a key role in Scotland's | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
modern story. A rising star, he ended up being expelled for being | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
part of the 79 group, a left-wing faction. It didn't take long to | :43:04. | :43:13. | |
bounce back. Alex Salmond was on his way to Westminster. In 1998, Nigel | :43:14. | :43:21. | |
Lawson's budget was interrupted. I beg to move that Mr Salmond be | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
suspended from the service of the house. It paved the way for a | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
successful leadership bid in 1990, beating Margaret Ewing. Years of | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
managing the party through opposition then followed. Scottish | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
politics came to the fore at Westminster with the 1997 evolution | :43:40. | :43:47. | |
referendum. Political rivals join science for Yes Yes. A good result | :43:48. | :43:55. | |
for Alex Salmond. Something is changing in Scotland. Later, he led | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
the SNP into the first Scottish Parliament elections. The voters | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
didn't buy a penny for Scotland, disappointment for the SNP. After a | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
lacklustre time, the leader stepped down in 2000. I will hugely missed | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
the job. I can't begin to explain how much I enjoy this aspect, how | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
much I enjoy politics. It was not for long. The men in grey kilts, a | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
popular phrase at the time, came to take John Swinney away. In an | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
Aberdeen hotel in July 2004, Alex Salmond announced he was standing | :44:32. | :44:40. | |
again. Today I am launching my candidacy to be the First Minister | :44:41. | :44:42. | |
of Scotland. There could be a chance in 2007, and | :44:43. | :44:50. | |
Alex Salmond was back in the game. Alex Salmond, MP, 75. 76% of the | :44:51. | :44:58. | |
vote... There was a chance. Fast forward to May, 2007, and a win by | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
one seat. Alex Salmond addressed the delighted party faithful. | :45:05. | :45:11. | |
I heard a rumour... I think we won the election! The trials and the | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
tribulations of being in power then followed. The release of the | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
Lockerbie bomber caused international outrage. On the | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
domestic front, the national conversation sowed the seeds of the | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
future referendum. Scotland liked what it saw in the main. It gave the | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
SNP another chance in 2011. A stunning success. The crowning glory | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
at the time for the master strategists. | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
This is not just a victory for a single political party, I believe it | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
is a victory for a society of people and a nation. | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
A majority government meant a referendum. Then agreement in autumn | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
2012, sealed the deal. London and Edinburgh, would abide by the | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
results. The substantial gain that Scotland | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
has is an agreed process to hold the referendum. | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
I'm honoured to announce that on Thursday, the 18th of September, | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
2014, we will hold Scotland's referendum. A historic day when the | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
people will decide Scotland's future. A dream come true, or too | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
much too soon? Now with the authority of the Scottish Government | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
behind him. He campaigned hard for independence. | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
This referendum is about the future of Scotland and the future of | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
Scotland should be in the hands of the people of Scotland. | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
The preverbial Marmite politician, love him or loath him, or respect | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
his achievements. Little did that young man with a plan, know that he | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
would set a date of destiny for the people of Scotland. | :46:49. | :46:55. | |
Now, earlier, our reporter Jane Louis spoke to shoppers in Glasgow. | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
They were waiting to buy new mobile phones but spoke to her about the | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
referendum. The momentous overnight, as Scotland | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
was put to the vote of no coming out top. If you thought that these guys | :47:08. | :47:10. | |
were interested in that, not a bit of it. They want to get their hands | :47:11. | :47:17. | |
on the new iPhone 6. Some of them have been queuing since Thursday | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
lunch time. Let's grab a word with a couple of the guys desperate to get | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
their hands on the new gadget. Tell us where you are from, sir? I am | :47:26. | :47:34. | |
from Bridge of Allen in Stirling. There was an important event | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
overnight in Scotland. What do you feel about the outcome of the no | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
vote for Scotland? I am pleased. I am a no voter. At the end of the day | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
half of the cruor does not have their own way but I hope that we can | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
get back together and get on with life. | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
Do you envisage change? Hopefully a little bit. But I am happy with the | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
way that things are. We will see in the future. | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
Let me have a word with you, sir. Queuing to get your hands on the new | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
iPhone but keeping an eye on what has been happening? Absolutely. I | :48:11. | :48:13. | |
have been watching the events on the BBC. Now I am here for my new | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
product. Did you vote before you came? I did, | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
absolutely. What about you and the outcome, what | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
is your feeling on that? I see it as a Vic for democracy. I think that | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
the record turnout it shows that Scottish people are passionate about | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
how they feel. I don't think that they can ignore that the voting is | :48:36. | :48:38. | |
pretty slim. I have to ask you in terms of the | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
future, do you think that the Westminster Government will give | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
Scotland what they want, more powers for example? I absolutely do think | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
that. I don't think that they can ignore | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
1. 1.5 million who came out asking for independence. And I really | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
believe that we will get the powers that we need. | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
People will want to know away from the referendum, why are you queuing | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
to get your hands on an iPhone 6, you can get it tomorrow? It is a | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
must-have product it is quality. Absolutely, I have to be here to | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
collect it today. And what about yourself, tomorrow | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
could not come soon enough? I promised my wife if the vote went | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
the right way, I would get her a new iPhone. So here I am! I would have | :49:25. | :49:31. | |
been in a grump if it had not gone my way. As we pointed out earlier, | :49:32. | :49:41. | |
other brands of mobile phone are available! Earlier, our economic | :49:42. | :49:50. | |
correspondent spoke to the SNP donor and businessman, Brian Souter to | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
find out his reaction. My initial reaction is one of | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
disappointment. I am a protagonist of independence. But as a | :50:00. | :50:02. | |
reflection, I really feel we have achieved a great deal. There is a | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
guarantee that the Barnet Formula will be continued. That is very | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
important for funding healthcare and education in Scotland. | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
There was talk of that being abandoned. There is a promise of | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
powers. We will hold the unionist parties to that promise. Also, we | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
have had an amazing flowering of democracy. This acted as a catalyst. | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
We have had people engaging and voting that have not voted in 30 or | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
40 years. It is just an amazing result, the turn out. I feel that | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
the whole of the UK will benefit from that. Nothing will be the same | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
again. And Brian, you personally in the | :50:47. | :50:52. | |
last couple of months, gave the SNP ?1 million to the campaign. Was it | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
money well spent? I think it was. The Yes Campaign ran an amazing | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
campaign. It was very positive. You know, when we started the process, | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
we were pulling 30% for independence. We have just pulled | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
45%. An amazing achievement. But the key issue is that there is another | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
400,000 people on to the voting register. Most of these people were | :51:17. | :51:24. | |
disenfranchised. A lot of them you would describe as urban poor. That | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
is where the yes vote really lay. If these people are reengaged with | :51:30. | :51:32. | |
politics and we keep them voting, then I think that is a price well | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
worth paying. Let's talk to Tim Reid for a moment. | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
Tim, we are almost at the end of the programme. Let's throw forward. We | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
have gone from last night, possibly with the UK at the end of its days | :51:47. | :51:54. | |
to a Conservative MSP telling us there will be a federal Britain. | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
Things are moving fast? Yes and clearly the result means that the | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
rest of the UK are clamouring for the same deal that Scotland will | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
get. So it will be questions for Labour about how they are going to | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
deal with that question. And Frank Field says that he thinks that they | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
have to be ahead of the curve. David Cameron to face questions about | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
offering Scotland so much, so many powers as a result of this and the | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
Lib Demes clearly have their conference season here, the SNP | :52:27. | :52:34. | |
questioning the conference about their strategy. | :52:35. | :52:42. | |
Thanks to Margaret Mitchell and Kenny McAfghanistanily. Now we are | :52:43. | :52:45. | |
almost at the end of the programme. Thank you for staying with us all | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
morning. We leave you now with a montage of the momentous events of | :52:51. | :53:00. | |
the last 24 hours. Awww! Morning! | :53:01. | :53:38. | |
The majority of valid votes cast yesterday by the people of Scotland | :53:39. | :53:54. | |
in response to the referendum question: Should Scotland be an | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
independent country, were in favour of no. | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. Today is a momentous result for | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
Scotland and also for the United Kingdom as a whole. We have | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
reaffirmed all that we have in common and the bonds that tie us | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
together. Let them never be broken. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
On behalf of the Scottish Government, I accept the result. The | :54:23. | :54:30. | |
Unionist parties made vows late in the campaign to devolve more powers | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
to Scotland. Scotland will expect these to be honoured in rapid | :54:36. | :54:47. | |
course. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. | :54:48. | :54:53. |