27/09/2016 Scotland 2016

A first today as shale gas arrived on our shores,

But what part will it play in Scotland's energy future?

The controversial process known as fracking was used to extract

What questions does that raise for Scotland's energy policy?

Kezia Dugdale wins the struggle for more autonomy

We speak to Ford Kiernan and Greg Hemphill about the return

It's not quite made it to its intended destination

of Grangemouth yet due to high winds but for the importers of that

first shale shipment, the chemical giant INEOS,

Shale is extracted by fracking or hydraulic fracturing.

It's a controversial practice which is currently not allowed

The delivery comes as the annual report on the health

of the oil and gas sector points to more job losses.

So what questions does the arrival of American shale raise

Shale gas for manufacturing, that is the message of the first ever

shipment to arrive in Scotland from the US. Here, eating is taken from

the gas and used to produce plastic pellets. That means jobs. There are

not raw materials to operate Grangemouth. So this is all about

securing those 10,000 jobs. Today's shipment is a product of fracking in

the US but could it take place here in Scotland? INEOS says we should

seriously consider it. The Scottish Parliament narrowly voted to ban it

with the SNP abstaining. The Scottish Government has a moratorium

in place until it. They have the impact is complete. The issue about

importation or production of unconventional gas is hugely

controversial. There is debate around the signs around it and that

is why we have commissioned research. The UK Government is

pro-fracking but Labour say they would impose a ban if elected.

Critics fear it could have a detrimental impact on the

environment and communities. Well, joining me now to discuss

that are, in Edinburgh, Friends of the Earth Scotland's

director, Dr Richard Dixon, in Dundee, Dr Stuart Paton,

who's an adviser to the oil and gas industry, and former chief

executive of Dana Petroleum and here in Glasgow,

Professor Karen Turner, who is director of the Centre

for Energy Policy at Strathclyde Richard Dixon, I will come to you

first. What did you make of the day and how do you feel about this first

shipment arriving in Scotland? There are a number of interesting things

today. The First Minister and energy Minister were both invited but they

turned out to be too busy. The ship did not manage to block suitors

languishing in the fourth. But this is something that INEOS are using to

reignite the debate about weather we should have fracking but they are

not even using it very well. He thought that probably fracking will

never happen in Scotland. INEOS may frack in the North of England if

they get their way but he thinks Scotland is a lost cause. We are

getting very close signals from ministers and the government and

even from INEOS wrote that fracking will probably never happen here.

There is still a lot we do not know about fracking. We are awaiting the

results of investigations you carried out and that is why there is

a moratorium on it at the moment. Or do you think about studies be done

safety here in a way that does not damage the environment? There are a

couple of different aspects. We do not know what the potential in

Scotland is the shale gas development and until we do, we

really will not understand the potential that we have got here. But

if we don't do that and decided to go ahead, it would be very important

for Scotland. But we will not see it on the scale of the United States

but it could be very important in terms of domestic gas supply which

we use in our homes and electricity and also chemical production which

is hugely important to the Scottish economy. This is just the first

step. This shipment will only be used for manufacturing. We're not

even looking ahead to energy policy yet. Within this complex issue comic

are we asking the right questions about if and when we will need shale

gas and whether we should be using it? We need to ask, what is it we

use gas for? This is a nice example. It is not our heating or lighting

all transport. This is the use of energy and manufacturing processes

and it is petrochemicals so ultimately, the deodorant UU 's, the

shampoo you use, so it shows this complex mix of energy demand

requirements we have. Then there is the big question of how we meet

those demands and servers this energy needs. How do you feel about

the debate so far? Are we looking at the right places? So far, it has

been very polarised. It has focused on the environmental issues or

talking about renewables versus taking hydrocarbons out of the

ground but this is a good example because the use of gas and

manufacturing processes, there is not eight clear renewable

alternative. It is industrial energy use. So I think we need to set and

think about the wider set of questions. The first one is, what do

we use gas for and where will we get it from? All the questions that have

come into focus like environmental damage and health concerns, we need

to think about whether we have looked at these properly, for the

Scottish case. Then there is a wider set of questions. We're talking

about energy prices. The biggest impact on your wallet comes from

movement and energy prices. I do not know what shale gas can offer the

fuel property but these are questions we need to ask. It has led

to a lowering of energy prices and the US. I am wondering whether you

might be able to accept some of that argument, that perhaps if this was

proven to be a cheaper alternative to renewable energy, it would make

sense to have a bit of even within our energy system. There are two

things. First of all, what would the price be? The industry needs to do

lots of testing and searching the work-out even if there is a viable

industry. They have said that in the UK and have also said that shale gas

will not reduce energy prices. So it is not cheap, even if there is

plenty of it there. On the bigger picture, we need to keep 80% of the

oil, gas and coal on the ground if we are to meet the climate targets

agreed at the Paris climate conference before Christmas so

adding more carbon to that mix is the last thing we need to do. What

do you think of that idea and the concept that by 2020, we could be

completely using renewables? I think we very much need a mixture. One of

your other interviewees has said that energy and electricity is part

of this and another big part is the chemical process and there, we

definitely need gas. Within electricity, we need gas for the

foreseeable future and we would be better off having that gas is

produced locally. We produced a lot of gas from the North Sea. We are

sitting on potentially very valuable gas resources right on our doorstep.

It seems wrong not to explore and see how much of that we have got an

use that locally. The value of that to the local Scottish economy in

terms of jobs, tax revenue for the government, it could in principle be

very important for us. It's wrong not to Lee's considered as part of

our energy mix. In terms of the decline in the North Sea, is enough

planning ahead being done to consider what might happen when the

North Sea gas in particular runs out? We have obviously had very

troubled times in the last 2-3 years with the drop in oil price and gas

price and obviously a number of companies are struggling with that.

The offshore industry is definitely taking steps to reduce its cost base

and increase the economic viability. That will be a challenge for

onshore. But what the North Americans have shown in shale gas,

the cost has come down substantially in the last 2-3 years, very active

supply chain and very active industry that has driven down costs

and has shown it can be economic, even as the oil and gas prices

lower. I would be very excited by the opportunity to work within the

shale gas industry in Scotland and find out what we have got there and

use that valuable resource on our doorstep. What do you make of the

Scottish Government's offshore all and gas industry, and its reluctance

to support fracking at the moment? We are in a transition. I would

defend the Scottish Government's policy and I would think about oil

and gas from the North Sea declining much faster than the government

would but we are in a time of transition, meaning we're getting

out of oil and gas. It is declining anyway and we need to leave some of

it where it is. But the last thing we need to do is get more of it out

in the form of shale gas. That is where we should not be going. On the

manufacturing point, energy is very important to the economy, and we do

need feedstocks for our chemical processes, but we need to look at

the future of those and the transition they should be going

through. One of the things the French have just done is declared

they will have a ban on disposable plastic cups and cutlery and plates.

That will save 5 billion cups a year. We use lots of plastic in a

terrible wasteful way. We need to turn that around so that the amount

of plastic we produce in the smaller. That is a small part of

what we need to do with the remaining fossil fuels. But do you

think the North Sea industry should now be left alone? We need a planned

transition. We are seeing terrible chaos in the industry. We are seeing

120,000 people losing their jobs and that is a disaster for individuals

and families. A planned transition so we face out the North Sea oil and

gas industry in a way that transfers those people skills into something

useful, whether that is insulated and all renewables, rather than let

it collapse and try and pick up the pieces, which is what we did with

the coal industry in Scotland. Let's learn from that terrible disaster

and plan for a real transition of sensible period. Is there something

immoral to you think about the fact we are willing to import this gas

but not extracting ourselves? This is the wider footprint question.

Everybody is familiar with the term carbon footprint. What is our gas

footprint? What is our call footprint? There always is a tension

in that. The UK and Scottish Government... There are regulations

that can be put in place to make sure things are done safely. Rules

are adhered to. That will be different to the United States. It

could be the Scottish industry would be better for the environment, I

don't know. Regulations in mining tend to be more stringent in the UK

that they are elsewhere so if you're thinking about the wider global

picture, it is how things balance out. Our government does not have

control of our processes or regulatory practices in other

countries. Thank you so much for coming in.

The Labour Party conference continues in Liverpool.

And today, delegates gave their backing to proposals

for greater autonomy for the party in Scotland.

Our Westminster correspondent, Nick Eardley, sent us this report.

Leaving Labour's conference, a first voting member.

Just two hours after her victory on the conference floor on reforms to

the relationship between Scottish Labour and Labour. It took a bit of

a fright. We'll gerrymander the NEC and allow

the decision-makers at the weekend to be vetoed by parliamentarians who

are not accountable to this movement. This time more than ever

we need to remove the top of our democracy and avoid more damaging

publicity. This man's supporters were against part of the package.

Giving more power to Scotland was an controversial. Senior figures in

Scottish Labour argued passing reforms could be the start of a

revival. Today you have an opportunity to

help us. To bring to an end a decade-long debate over Scotland's

place in the Labour Party. Opportunity to close the door on our

opponents who make the accusation that Scottish Labour cannot speak

for Scotland. An opportunity to help buyers write

a new chapter as we build our party to be a electoral force in the

future. 8% of those who voted backed changes

will stop Mr Taylor was deleted. Daschle Promis Dugdale was

delighted. I'm delighted we've got the result that we have because it

puts beyond any and all doubt that the Scottish and Labour Party stands

up for Scotland and put Scotland's first.

Some people think that featured have been elected.

What is your message to them? It's clear that the constituency members

of the Labour Party across the country are left to their own

delegates. That's been the case for a long time. What we have been in

four years is that the labour of Welsh and Scottish Labour should sit

on that body. I've got a 72% mandate for members in Scotland to speak for

the Scottish Labour Party. That voice should be taken to the NEC.

Today's wrote was about more than who sits on which body. The Scottish

party has been trying for years to shake off the idea that it is

subservient to London. Now Kezia Dugdale gets the autonomy she craves

and more of a say in how the party is run. Tomorrow is Jeremy Corbyn's

two. It is his first speech since his real action. His main message

will be we need to stick together if we are to take the fight to the

Tories. As the sun sets on this Labour

conference that remains to be seen whether the Scottish party takes a

whether the Scottish party takes a different path than Mr Corbyn's.

It's the kind of gathering normally reserved for Hollywood.

A hundred thousand people applied for tickets for three special

screenings of the first episode of the new series of Still Game.

Tonight, the lucky few got a preview of the show,

which is returning to the BBC after a nine year absence.

At its heart, two Glasgow pensioners Jack and Victor,

Our arts correspondent Pauline McLean has been to meet

the duo behind them, actors Ford Kiernan

So Jack and Victor still 75 but everything has changed, hasn't it?

We have these discussions with the set designer. What kind of TVs would

they have, would they have mobile phones? It was financing those

questions. Pensioners do have flatscreen TVs now and mobile

phones. The world changes. But because we made it clear from the

beginning we weren't going to make the many older you just have to let

the world get older. Hold that. Watch. But it's there. Shut my door.

Who is it, please? Basically we sort have said who would have the

Internet. And the neighbour was Google before Google, she knew

everybody, you know? A lot of what we were talking about before with

the reaction to the Show, 21 nights at the Hydro, that big outpouring of

love, I guess for the character rugby show. That couldn't have

existed ten years ago. No, you couldn't have got that many people.

Stuffs change. Twitter, the amount of conversations about the Show

coming back on twitter have been in their hundreds and thousands. You do

feel old when you consider that we did for the first time in 1989 and

we used to meet up and say eight taxi driver told me that he liked

this sketch, that's how you got your feedback. That makes you seem like a

dinosaur now. Quilted toilet roll. You usually buy the cheap stuff that

you put your fingers through. You've got a guest visiting.

I think the Show and the characters have heart. People have their

favourites. They love sitting characters meanness, maybe they love

the way they all interact. We are fans of shows that make you feel

good, rather than, you know are cynical or whatever. We like sitcoms

that are... Like Cheers, stuff like that where you lose yourself for

half an hour with people you feel like you know. Just like the song at

the beginning of Cheers. We had a good idea all those years ago that

there was something that could travel. We took it to Canada and

Dublin. England. We've never looked beyond the series we just written,

you know. We're sitting here tonight and were waiting for the next few

weeks to see what the audience responses. They decide the life

span. They would have done. So we could see more series yet? No

make-up, were going to take all the make-up and put it in our pockets.

We could even get dressed in the house!

Pauline McLean there, speaking to Ford Kiernan and Greg Hemphill.

And the new series of Still Game starts on Friday 7th

of October on BBC One. Now, joining me to discuss the day's

big stories are Catriona Stewart from The Herald and the Editor

Good evening to you both. Looking forward to Still Game? Yes, I love

Still Game. They are Scotland's answer to Brad and Angelina, aren't

they? From still game to shale gas, let's talk about that. The first

shipment arriving at Grangemouth today. Well, not quite arriving.

Quite a show on the first of force today and this has reignited the

debate about fracking. I think as your guests said earlier the central

issue here is that we need gas to produce things. We need gas

domestically. And it's got to come from somewhere. You're riding the

horns of this band, where is it going to come from? If there are

questions about the dangers of extracting it from the ground, it's

easy to brush that away by bringing it from somewhere else. I think the

reason why there is so much attention is because it is such a

hard thing to resolve. Do you think it's become too much of a political

argument, almost to be rational and reasonable about it now? I think

when you've got something that so, almost emotive, there's the

environmental campaigners on one hand who are very against it,

there's moral issues around, you know, how moralism, really, that we

are against fracking in Scotland but we're taking gas at the

environmental expense of another country. Then you've got a

government, it's very sort of tempting in that regard, jobs,

money, as Paul says, we need energy to come from somewhere. Is it then

looking at increasing renewable energy which, personally, I think is

the way we should be going. On the question of politics in the US last

night saw the first televised debate of the presidential campaign. He is

a flavour of how they got on. She doesn't have the looks. She

doesn't have the stamina. To be president of this country you need

tremendous stamina. As soon as he travels to 112 countries and

negotiate a peace deal, a ceasefire, a release of dissidents and opening

of new opportunities and nations around the world, or even spend 11

hours testifying in front of a congressional committee he can talk

to me about stamina! I wonder what you made of that? Did you see the

whole thing? I was watching it like this a little bit. The cognitive

dissonance is almost too much to handle. You got a former secretary

of State oozing gauging in a presidential debate with a cartoon,

essentially. -- who is engaging. And on the other hand it's a really

event. You've got a high number of undecided voters and Hillary is

having to come in and take those people with her. Last night Donald

handed to her on a plate. Some of the stuff he was coming out with was

nonsensical. He was talking about her anti-terror plans, saying that

she was tipping off Isis. She suggested that he wasn't paying his

federal taxes and he said, that makes me smart. At the end of its

CNN was the largest poll and they said that 62% were backing Hillary.

Whether that translates into votes we can only wait and see. We're like

to more debates to come. Certainly, it was cringeworthy from Donald's

side. But, Paul, we keep hearing he won't make it to the next stage. He

won't win, and he's charging on. What you think the possibility is

that he could... He's a man with Teflon here, nothing really sticks

to him. He'll keep going because there's nobody else. But it does

look as though the wheels are starting to come. He's like a

football manager, blaming everything except his own performance. He said

his was picking up his sniffles. He's starting to look for excuses.

Perhaps this is the moment that thing is to learn. He was getting

riled towards the end. She stayed very cool. What did you make of the

body language? I watch it with the volume down and I thought the facial

expressions were interesting. She states smiling at Camwy has his face

was... It's that we had hand gesture he does. There is a comedian who

does a voice-over who mocks trump's online with his originals. All he

does is repeat jump's words but in a ridiculous accent. He shows how we

did is what he says is. Watching that last night you can see exactly

what he zoned in on. If you are looking for body language, Trump

lost it. He had a complete meltdown towards the end as well. He was

shouting. He was doing this bizarre stream of consciousness free

association thing, pointing and being aggressive. He just wasn't

presidential at all. It's very clear that if you support Donald Trump you

The great Brexit debate continues and today in London,

the First Minister gave a speech to Institute of Directors

in which she linked the vote to leave the EU with the UK

How does that adds to the debate? I find it a book you say. If that is

the case then Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP have frequently

said that they bore the brunt of austerity. They should have voted

for Brexit then, that would have propelled them towards Brexit. But

it had the opposite effect. Scotland was for remaining in the EU so I

thought that it was just sort of scrambling around a bit to look for

an excuse that wasn't there. Do you think the fact that it was in London

she was maybe talking about the vote in England rather than its

resonating here. Moray was our closest road and that's not a

deprived part of Scotland. Certainly. When you look at the

breakdown the statistics and student's hypothesis don't quite

stack up. She's certainly not the first person to say that. But Brexit

is a bit like the parable of the blind men and the elephant. The man

holding the Taylor thinks he has a rope. There is no multifaceted

answer. It's really easy to protect your own thoughts on to it and that

is exactly what the surgeon has done today. Thank you. It's been good to

talk to you both. I'm back again tomorrow

night, usual time. You can keep up-to-date with all the

Scottish News online. In the meantime please join me tomorrow.

Goodbye for now.