Foreign Secretary Committee Select Committees


Foreign Secretary Committee

Similar Content

Browse content similar to Foreign Secretary Committee. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

What comfort can you give us that you are actually going to bd able to

:13:02.:13:09.

spend money in places like hn Europe without reinforcing our bil`teral

:13:10.:13:15.

relations in the wake of Brdxit There does not appear to be any

:13:16.:13:19.

money kicking around at the minute. I think I have made a few points, we

:13:20.:13:25.

live in strange circumstancds, we have to make our money go ftrther

:13:26.:13:30.

than ever, we have a bigger network than the French with that acceptance

:13:31.:13:35.

costs. We can be doing extrdmely well. We are can be proud. The

:13:36.:13:45.

overall FCA budget is rising from 1.1 billion to 1.24 billion by 019.

:13:46.:13:51.

I think where you are spot on if I may say, Mr Blunt, is in pohnting to

:13:52.:13:58.

the very considerable sums that are available for ODA spending, we have

:13:59.:14:03.

quite a lot of quite a lot of ODA quite a lot of quite a lot of ODA

:14:04.:14:12.

think it is now to make surd, the think it is now to make surd, the

:14:13.:14:20.

game now is to make sure th`t UK ODA stackable funds are used in such a

:14:21.:14:29.

way in not just to serve to goals as they undoubtedly must, but `lso make

:14:30.:14:34.

sure they mesh and with our diplomatic and political objectives.

:14:35.:14:39.

I see absolutely no contradhction in that approach and that is something

:14:40.:14:44.

I know that the government `t all levels agrees with. Secretary of

:14:45.:14:52.

State, to pick that point up, that is fine but that only applids to

:14:53.:14:57.

those countries that are subject to development assistance, you cannot

:14:58.:15:02.

spend that money elsewhere. True. It is all very well having mondy there

:15:03.:15:06.

but where our game needs to be raised is with the rest of the world

:15:07.:15:12.

where our principal markets, existing markets are going to be, we

:15:13.:15:18.

are reinforcing the work of the international trade departmdnt, but

:15:19.:15:21.

you cannot do this on fresh air and all you have is fresh air to do this

:15:22.:15:24.

on at the minute and meet these aspirations. I know you gavd my

:15:25.:15:31.

predecessor quite a grilling about this when he last appeared before

:15:32.:15:36.

you, and he made a very good point that he could imagine bidding for

:15:37.:15:42.

more funds themselves, sincd he is now the Chancellor, I am pl`nning to

:15:43.:15:46.

camp out as they say in the Foreign Office on what he has to sax.

:15:47.:15:53.

Foreign Secretary, in welcoling you to your post, can we kick-off, it

:15:54.:15:58.

may not surprise you, with Brexit. To many of us, the referendtm gave

:15:59.:16:04.

every clear message and that is we are leaving, the government's

:16:05.:16:09.

position is greatly on this. We are going to take back control on

:16:10.:16:15.

immigration and introduced ` fairer immigration on that no longdr

:16:16.:16:17.

discriminates against the rdst of the outside the EU and we whll get

:16:18.:16:26.

the best possible deal in rdgard accessing EU markets. It is a

:16:27.:16:31.

nonsense that there was so luch noise about this one could `rgue

:16:32.:16:35.

trade from outside the EU trade from outside the EU

:16:36.:16:40.

profitably, there is no reason why the fifth-largest economy c`nnot as

:16:41.:16:42.

well. What would you say to the alarmists, some would prefer --

:16:43.:16:53.

unfairly call them Bremoaners, that we are heading to hell in a hand

:16:54.:16:57.

basket, and what would you say to those who are genuinely concerned

:16:58.:16:59.

about developments and the uncertainty that this has c`used? I

:17:00.:17:07.

think that those who prophesied doom before the referendum have been

:17:08.:17:12.

proved wrong, and I think they will continue to be proved wrong. It will

:17:13.:17:19.

take time before the full bdnefits of Brexit appear, because after all,

:17:20.:17:22.

we have not even begun the process of leaving. The whole thing is

:17:23.:17:27.

really very artificial and speculative. I do think that

:17:28.:17:34.

businesses investing in the UK can have maximum possible certahnty in

:17:35.:17:39.

the assurance that our partners our friends across the Channel have a

:17:40.:17:45.

huge interest in doing the best possible deal in goods and services

:17:46.:17:54.

for the sake of their companies and our friends in the political world

:17:55.:17:57.

across the channel have a symmetrical interest in doing a deal

:17:58.:18:00.

that would be for the benefht of their constituents and the people

:18:01.:18:03.

who elect them. And that of the deal that is going to promote thd growth

:18:04.:18:08.

and posterity of both the UK and the EU and IM sure that is what we put

:18:09.:18:13.

produce. There could be somd trouble along the way that that is how it

:18:14.:18:17.

will end up. Perhaps we shotld take comfort from the fact that the very

:18:18.:18:19.

people who were predicting doom and people who were predicting doom and

:18:20.:18:28.

gloom if we did not join thd euro are predicting doom and gloom now.

:18:29.:18:32.

Can I drill down on the negotiations, wonderfully

:18:33.:18:37.

fully understand that a rolling fully understand that a rolling

:18:38.:18:41.

commentary makes for poor ottcomes. And despite the silent calls of

:18:42.:18:47.

certain members of this place, it is just ridiculous to think th`t that

:18:48.:18:50.

can take place and the government is clear that it will not take place,

:18:51.:18:55.

there will be no rolling colmentary, there will be scrutiny perh`ps but

:18:56.:19:00.

no rolling commentary. But the EU's position itself is quite

:19:01.:19:04.

interesting. They are very luch we can put it on the record, they are

:19:05.:19:10.

linking immigration to access to the single market. They say it hs one of

:19:11.:19:14.

the four founding principles, it is non-negotiable. You have described

:19:15.:19:27.

that approach as baloney. M`is oui. Absolutely right. There's a here,

:19:28.:19:33.

how are we going to get arotnd this? -- there is a disconnect here. I

:19:34.:19:37.

genuinely think there is an unnecessary linkage in thesd

:19:38.:19:42.

concepts and I vividly remelber being ordered by the Belgian

:19:43.:19:46.

interior minister in 1989 to leave the country, they tried to portray

:19:47.:19:51.

when I went to work abroad because -- tried to deport me because I

:19:52.:19:57.

could not produce a document that showed I was economically vhable in

:19:58.:20:02.

Belgium. I had to go to the commune with a letter proving I had a job.

:20:03.:20:08.

This was as you appreciate lany years after the Treaty of Rome, many

:20:09.:20:14.

years after the single European act. So the idea that the Browni`n

:20:15.:20:23.

movement of individuals, citizens across the surface of Europd is

:20:24.:20:31.

somehow there on tablet in stone in Brussels is complete nonsense. It is

:20:32.:20:37.

a fiction, we are taking back control of our borders, as we said

:20:38.:20:42.

we would, and that is what we will do. It does not mean, as I said in

:20:43.:20:47.

my opening remarks, that we are going to be hostile to people of

:20:48.:20:52.

talent who wants to come and live and work here. I think it is very

:20:53.:20:55.

important that we continue to send out a signal of openness and welcome

:20:56.:21:04.

to the many brilliant peopld who help to drive the London economy and

:21:05.:21:08.

If there are knotty problem that we If there are knotty problem that we

:21:09.:21:15.

have got to face and we havd not faced up to it, or perhaps we have

:21:16.:21:20.

behind closed doors, that is the opposition has access to thd single

:21:21.:21:23.

market and one can understand that, but at the same time we are doing to

:21:24.:21:26.

communities act and it is that act communities act and it is that act

:21:27.:21:30.

that gave force to the EU Court of Justice which has a students with

:21:31.:21:39.

regard to the single market. There regard to the single market. There

:21:40.:21:44.

is a bit of a disconnect th`t. The Prime Minister made it clear when

:21:45.:21:46.

leaving the EU and thereby we would leaving the EU and thereby we would

:21:47.:21:54.

be leaving a number of the Duropean Court of Justice, we would be no

:21:55.:21:58.

longer subject to European Tnion law. That is the key point. We will

:21:59.:22:04.

get the best possible deal for goods and services for the UK and the rest

:22:05.:22:13.

of the EU. OK. Following on from that, it sounds too many of us, and

:22:14.:22:16.

this holds no fear from any of our points of view, that we would be

:22:17.:22:23.

prepared if all else fails to fall back on WTO rules and tariffs. Your

:22:24.:22:29.

fellow Secretary of State ldaving the EU says that holds no fdar. If

:22:30.:22:35.

170 countries can trade on such a basis and tariffs are as low as

:22:36.:22:44.

three or 5%, except truck, ht shows that it holds no fear for us. I

:22:45.:22:50.

think you are can think me to get into what we call running commentary

:22:51.:22:54.

about the negotiations. -- xou are tempting me. I think we can do a

:22:55.:23:02.

great deal that can deliver results for both goods and services for our

:23:03.:23:07.

businesses and for our friends overseas. But he would not disagree

:23:08.:23:10.

with your fellow Secretary of State that the debutant Theo holds no

:23:11.:23:17.

fears? -- the WTO holds no fears? That would be getting into the mini

:23:18.:23:22.

shy of the negotiations. I think there will be a great deal done EU

:23:23.:23:27.

not picking up here, I have raised not picking up here, I have raised

:23:28.:23:31.

this before but what is your take along with the spotlight behng on

:23:32.:23:35.

our negotiating position, btt if you look across at the EU, it is quite

:23:36.:23:40.

an interesting situation. Wd seem to have an emerging and growing split

:23:41.:23:44.

between the ideologists within the EU commission and elected

:23:45.:23:49.

politicians who realise that courtesy of the balance of trade in

:23:50.:23:54.

their favour, playing hardb`ll may not be in their best interests. What

:23:55.:23:58.

can you tell us with regards that situation as you see it? I

:23:59.:24:02.

understand that point and I have heard it quite a lot. I think it is

:24:03.:24:07.

important not to... I have not actually tested that proposhtion yet

:24:08.:24:12.

with some of the key commission people but my impression is that

:24:13.:24:16.

they are faithful servants of Europe and of the EU and they will

:24:17.:24:23.

alternately do what they consider to be in the best interests of the

:24:24.:24:28.

entire union. And I think that will be a deal that is beneficial to the

:24:29.:24:33.

electorates and the people of Europe and that is where they will end up.

:24:34.:24:39.

Of course a certain amount of plaster has come off the cehling in

:24:40.:24:40.

Brussels since the vote on June 23, Brussels since the vote on June 23,

:24:41.:24:47.

of course people feel, they had a project, there was a fascin`ting

:24:48.:24:48.

article in the FT this mornhng by article in the FT this mornhng by

:24:49.:24:52.

the French Prime Minister in which he spelt out why we were so right to

:24:53.:24:57.

vote to leave because he very erratically start out his vhsion for

:24:58.:25:03.

a United States of Europe, ` federal system, with defined boundaries Not

:25:04.:25:09.

an ideal to which I think the British people really aspird. I

:25:10.:25:13.

think we did the right thing. I think we can make it work. Do you

:25:14.:25:19.

think relations a few years out can improve with the EU? Becausd no log

:25:20.:25:24.

of all they have two content with those awkward Brits, a thorn in

:25:25.:25:28.

their side, as they march towards a closer look with union and ht can

:25:29.:25:31.

make for a fresh political volition ship. I am so glad to hear xou talk

:25:32.:25:38.

in those terms. Europe is at its best when it is positive about the

:25:39.:25:43.

work it is engaged in, I thhnk we should view the Brexit procdss as a

:25:44.:25:46.

positive thing. We are sorthng out the UK problem. After all that has

:25:47.:25:51.

been a problem for decades. We did not go into Schengen, critically

:25:52.:25:57.

weak decided to stay out of stage three of monetary union in 0991

:25:58.:26:02.

that with the basic moment of the emergence. I think all else to float

:26:03.:26:09.

from that. What we saw on Jtne 3 was the logical conclusion of that

:26:10.:26:18.

divergences, that basic drift by the British people away from th`t ideal

:26:19.:26:21.

which is articulated by the French Prime Minister in the paper this

:26:22.:26:25.

morning. We do not want to be part of such a construct. We havd always

:26:26.:26:31.

made it clear. It has always been very tense. We said, we do not agree

:26:32.:26:36.

with us ever closer links, we do not agree with the jurisdiction of the

:26:37.:26:39.

European Court of Justice over this or that. And we have been the bad

:26:40.:26:44.

part of this. To a certain dxtent other countries have shielddd their

:26:45.:26:51.

own apprehensions behind us, but it is up to them now to get on and take

:26:52.:26:57.

the thing forward. Lee McRad finally on Brexit, Canada to reinforce. --

:26:58.:27:08.

finally on Brexit, can I rehnforce what we talked about resources, we

:27:09.:27:11.

have been poorly sited in m`ny of have been poorly sited in m`ny of

:27:12.:27:16.

our interventions, the FCO, some of us have a view on those

:27:17.:27:18.

interventions but us have a view on those

:27:19.:27:24.

interventions Put that to one side. Resources are going to be even more

:27:25.:27:30.

difficult now as we become globally facing and looked outside the EU. An

:27:31.:27:37.

increase of the budget is a drop in the ocean prepared to what hs

:27:38.:27:43.

required. -- compared to wh`t is required. How forceful will you be

:27:44.:27:45.

in lobbying for more funds from in lobbying for more funds from

:27:46.:27:52.

where you sit? I am grateful to you and the committee for the tdnor of

:27:53.:27:55.

welcome to us and clearly wd want to welcome to us and clearly wd want to

:27:56.:28:01.

be arguing that global Brit`in wants to be properly represented overseas.

:28:02.:28:05.

I think ?140 million can go a long way. There will be some parsimonious

:28:06.:28:11.

will make good use of it. Clearly we will make good use of it. Clearly we

:28:12.:28:15.

have a big network and robust network that needs to be properly

:28:16.:28:16.

run. Thank you for joining us. D`y and

:28:17.:28:24.

thank you to your colleagues for coming along as well. Someone

:28:25.:28:28.

referred to them as unelectdd bureaucrats, but we do not on this

:28:29.:28:33.

committee. Sorry to interrupt you. Far be it from me to critichse

:28:34.:28:38.

bureaucrats, the unelected ones I was talking about we will shortly

:28:39.:28:45.

cease to have controlling otr lives. OK. Not the ones at the momdnt?

:28:46.:28:57.

These ones are OK? In terms of your earlier analogy on going off and

:28:58.:29:01.

running the place. I am going to take it on face value that that was

:29:02.:29:06.

about trade rather than any major trading foreign policy after we

:29:07.:29:10.

leave the European Union. One of the great attractions to our partners

:29:11.:29:15.

overseas is access and membdrship of the single market. Do you still

:29:16.:29:18.

believe we should retain melbership? Yes or no? Let us be clear, we're

:29:19.:29:31.

going to get a deal, I think the term single market is incre`singly

:29:32.:29:35.

useless, we will get a deal which will be of huge value, posshbly a

:29:36.:29:43.

greater value. What is still an achieved and services, for hnstance,

:29:44.:29:48.

goods and services for our friends on the continent and for business

:29:49.:29:56.

investment, I make these we`risome points but we are the singld biggest

:29:57.:30:03.

consumers of French champagne and of Italian Chris Eckel. We're

:30:04.:30:08.

indiscriminate. We drink both more than anybody else. We import more

:30:09.:30:16.

German cars than any other country, it is a wonderful fact. -- Htalian

:30:17.:30:27.

sparkling wine. There will be no attempt to punish the UK or

:30:28.:30:32.

financial services, as the former Governor of the Bank of England

:30:33.:30:36.

said, yesterday, it does not make economic sense for Europe. Hn the

:30:37.:30:41.

end,... That is not the question I asked. As you will be aware, forgive

:30:42.:30:46.

me for mentioning, the French drink more whisky in a month than cognac

:30:47.:30:51.

in a year, and I suspect th`t will not stop either. The question I

:30:52.:30:57.

asked, do you think we should retain membership of the single market or

:30:58.:31:01.

is it your negotiating objectives to retain membership of the single

:31:02.:31:08.

market? That is a simple qudstion. Is that your objective? We're going

:31:09.:31:16.

to get the best possible de`l, and as I said the most useful thing I

:31:17.:31:21.

can say to you is that the phrase single market probably is one that

:31:22.:31:32.

not many people really understand. I presume you understand. There are

:31:33.:31:38.

many countries that sell very effectively into the single market,

:31:39.:31:42.

and that is what we will do. So we will be outside the single larket?

:31:43.:31:47.

Well, we will get the best possible deal for trades and services. So you

:31:48.:31:51.

do not know if we will be on the single market is what we take away

:31:52.:31:58.

from this? Nobody appears to have a clue about what is going to happen.

:31:59.:32:03.

I will do it one last time, is it even your objective to retahn

:32:04.:32:08.

membership of the single market We're leaving the European Tnion.

:32:09.:32:14.

That is not quite what I asked. You seem to think the single market is

:32:15.:32:20.

sort of like the Groucho cltb or something. We are leaving the

:32:21.:32:26.

European Union, we will continue to have access for trading goods and

:32:27.:32:34.

services to the EU, and I think we will do a deal which will bd to the

:32:35.:32:44.

benefit of both sides. You don't know, you dinnae ken. Which

:32:45.:32:48.

commissioners have you met with since you took office? I have

:32:49.:32:57.

principally had dealings with Johannes Hannon and the High

:32:58.:33:04.

Commissioner who deals with the foreign affairs said. I appreciate

:33:05.:33:15.

your candour. Regarding exiting the European Union, have you asked the

:33:16.:33:25.

year colleagues will be meeting We were told that we cannot be told

:33:26.:33:32.

because it is part of the negotiating strategy. Will the

:33:33.:33:34.

commissioners tell us who they are meeting? They are very open and in

:33:35.:33:39.

my view they are charming pdople, they want to engage with us, and my

:33:40.:33:47.

relations with them are really good. We have had various convers`tions.

:33:48.:33:52.

As part of this, do you still adhere to what the Prime Minister said when

:33:53.:33:56.

she met the First Minister of Scotland, that there should be an

:33:57.:33:59.

agreed position with devolvdd administrations before any `greement

:34:00.:34:07.

is signed? An agreed position? It is certainly the case that devolved

:34:08.:34:09.

administrations, overseas territories, they will all be

:34:10.:34:14.

properly consulted, of course, over the course of the negotiations.

:34:15.:34:19.

Rate, but will there be an `greed position? I am asking you qtestions,

:34:20.:34:23.

I am not sure I'm getting any answers. We have had a week of that

:34:24.:34:28.

in the chamber. Will there be an agreed position? I can tell you that

:34:29.:34:34.

the devolved administrations will play a role, they will be consulted,

:34:35.:34:41.

but this is a United Kingdol, confidence is something that was

:34:42.:34:44.

decided by the people of thd UK you would expect them and the government

:34:45.:34:50.

to be the lead in the negothations. One interesting reflection on all

:34:51.:34:55.

this consultation of Parlialent and the devolved administrations and so

:34:56.:35:02.

on, I have seen plenty of Etropean negotiations and treaty and at no

:35:03.:35:09.

stage in the run-up to the climax of those negotiations has therd been

:35:10.:35:15.

any attempt to create three position with Parliament, let alone with the

:35:16.:35:24.

regions. But there is a process .. On the point of process, yot're

:35:25.:35:28.

telling me there will not bd an agreed position with the devolved

:35:29.:35:31.

administrations, they will be consulted, which goes against what

:35:32.:35:34.

the Prime Minister told the First Minister at the start of thhs. Has

:35:35.:35:38.

there been movement on the involvement of devolved

:35:39.:35:42.

administrations? I think I `nswered your question. Let me ask you one

:35:43.:35:46.

further question, if you cannot answer that. You spoke of t`lking

:35:47.:35:53.

about this new law, is therd any law that David Cameron signed up to with

:35:54.:35:55.

his European partners that xou would not have signed up to? With the

:35:56.:36:01.

Council of ministers? I think the Treaty of Lisbon was a step too far.

:36:02.:36:09.

I think it was a great mist`ke. I think that we should have rdjected

:36:10.:36:16.

it. I think it unnecessarilx expanded EU competence and hn

:36:17.:36:21.

particular what it got wrong was the extension of EU competence to the

:36:22.:36:25.

field of human rights. And the notion that this great European

:36:26.:36:32.

charter, -- Charter of fund`mental rights should now be... That sets up

:36:33.:36:40.

a great deal of confusion whth the Strasbourg Court of Human Rhghts,

:36:41.:36:44.

and it leads to all sorts of extensions of EU judicial activism

:36:45.:36:49.

in my view, in areas that are totally wrong. That would bd an

:36:50.:36:53.

example of the kind of area where I might have disagreed with the

:36:54.:36:56.

previous administration. It is an area we disagree on as well. Having

:36:57.:37:00.

a common set of human rights across this continent is a good thhng.

:37:01.:37:04.

Because I am nearly out of time I want to ask you about Syria. In

:37:05.:37:12.

terms of Syria, can you outline for me, obviously deliver Sky Ndws poll

:37:13.:37:18.

out today saying that the UK has a responsibility to protect chvilians,

:37:19.:37:21.

but a part of that is trying to get a broader political agreement. Can

:37:22.:37:26.

you tell me of any mapping xou have done of political factions hn Syria

:37:27.:37:30.

and any options your securing at the moment for a political agredment? --

:37:31.:37:35.

you are securing. You will be familiar with the various m`ps that

:37:36.:37:42.

exist off the divisions of Syria. I mean the wide variety of different

:37:43.:37:49.

groups. One of the bits of work we have led on is in building tp a

:37:50.:37:57.

broad-based opposition group called the high negotiations committee

:37:58.:38:07.

which is led I a gentleman, who came to London in September. Thex were

:38:08.:38:12.

widely drawn from Syrian opposition groupings. Military, civil society

:38:13.:38:19.

and so on. They laid out a case for transition away from Asad and the

:38:20.:38:28.

kind of Syria they want to see. -- Assad. There was a higher qtota for

:38:29.:38:35.

female representation exists in the Tory party today, so it was very

:38:36.:38:43.

progressive. Certainly in the Labour Party. Our ambition is to try to get

:38:44.:38:54.

the Russians and the Assad regime to desist from its violence in Aleppo,

:38:55.:39:01.

to get back from a ceasefird than to renew the negotiations in Gdneva. In

:39:02.:39:03.

that context, those opposithon groups, I believe, do carry a lot of

:39:04.:39:11.

credibility. And when they speak you can see a future for Syria that does

:39:12.:39:14.

not include Assad because that is the question that is constantly put

:39:15.:39:22.

to us. Who can replace Assad? Well, there are answers. I know I am out

:39:23.:39:28.

of ten, so maybe you could write to the committee with some of the

:39:29.:39:31.

details about the work being carried out on mapping? Very good. Good

:39:32.:39:40.

morning. I am delighted to see you in your new role. There is one word

:39:41.:39:45.

that has been missing from this morning's discussion that I have not

:39:46.:39:52.

heard from you, that is the word Commonwealth. Lord Haig said there

:39:53.:39:53.

is going to be the C back into the is going to be the C back into the

:39:54.:40:03.

FCO. What is the new Foreign Secretary doing to make surd the

:40:04.:40:11.

Commonwealth is paramount? ,- Lord Hague. Thank you. I know yot have

:40:12.:40:18.

long been a champion of the Commonwealth and Britain's relations

:40:19.:40:21.

with the Commonwealth, and thank you for all the work you do. Thd

:40:22.:40:27.

Commonwealth is a wonderful asset for the world. And it is yet another

:40:28.:40:32.

forum in which our country hs able to express our values to get things

:40:33.:40:37.

done and get things moving. Yes we see it as vital for our futtre

:40:38.:40:55.

overseas. There is discussion about a meeting in 2018. We're ushng the

:40:56.:41:02.

Commonwealth and networks, principally if you think about it,

:41:03.:41:06.

many of the Commonwealth cotntries are the growth economies of the

:41:07.:41:09.

world. This has been one of the staggering developments over the

:41:10.:41:15.

last 25 years. While the EU has been mired in low growth, it is `ctually

:41:16.:41:18.

the Commonwealth countries that have been bounding ahead and yet we have

:41:19.:41:24.

not been able, because of otr constriction under the EU treaties,

:41:25.:41:27.

we haven't been able to do free trade agreements with them for 2

:41:28.:41:32.

years. Many of them are now stepping up, volunteering to do thesd deals

:41:33.:41:41.

and it is a very exciting prospect. Australia, Malaysia, New Ze`land,

:41:42.:41:47.

they are standing up and saxing they want to increase trade with the UK.

:41:48.:41:52.

So Brexit is an opportunity, in your view, for the United Kingdol to do a

:41:53.:41:57.

whole lot more with the Comlonwealth and perhaps rekindled these

:41:58.:41:59.

relationships we have neglected since we joined the Common larket?

:42:00.:42:06.

Absolutely. I yield to no one in my admiration of the Foreign and

:42:07.:42:11.

Commonwealth Office office, and I walk around the office on a daily

:42:12.:42:19.

state of wonder. It has manx mansions, it is a fantastic thing.

:42:20.:42:23.

But when I used to go around doing trade missions for London, one of

:42:24.:42:34.

the thing that the FCO membdrs used to tell me was that there w`s a huge

:42:35.:42:39.

operation dedicated to the DU but perhaps not quite enough whdn you

:42:40.:42:46.

went on to some other areas. I am not saying I want to subtract our

:42:47.:42:52.

commitment to other European capitals and European -- on European

:42:53.:42:57.

work, because that is obviotsly vital. 44% of traders with the EU,

:42:58.:43:02.

it is colossally important. But there are opportunities. I leant

:43:03.:43:11.

what I said earlier about the enthusiasm of the people at the FCO.

:43:12.:43:14.

I think they really see this and they want to do it, they sed an

:43:15.:43:18.

opportunity here. So I assule you agree with me, that the Comlonwealth

:43:19.:43:21.

flag should fly from British embassies around the world `s we use

:43:22.:43:23.

the -- remove the European flag Sorry... OK, you are testing my flag

:43:24.:43:36.

knowledge here! I do not know the right word for it. The flag of the

:43:37.:43:42.

Commonwealth, I do not think I am going to make any statements. You

:43:43.:43:48.

are happy for it to fly frol embassies and high commissions? As

:43:49.:43:51.

soon as somebody can identify it to me, I will be very happy. I and data

:43:52.:43:58.

have two own up, I am unaware of the exact configurations of the

:43:59.:44:05.

like? That is my drawing. That is a like? That is my drawing. That is a

:44:06.:44:12.

very good drawing. That is ` lovely flag. Wait, it looks like a lovely

:44:13.:44:20.

flag. But I am not going to commit now to fly it anywhere. Could you

:44:21.:44:28.

check that one out and come back to us? Right. Thank you. If yot could

:44:29.:44:36.

come back on that particular point, if that is OK. Could I move onto the

:44:37.:44:42.

next item? Apart from the Commonwealth, the United Kingdom

:44:43.:44:46.

actually has sovereign power over 21 territories and dependents of which

:44:47.:44:51.

60 your department is directly responsible, one of which is

:44:52.:44:52.

Gibraltar. They are particularly Gibraltar. They are particularly

:44:53.:44:58.

affected by us leaving the Duropean Union. Can we expect a bit lore

:44:59.:45:02.

bulldog spirit in dealing whth Madrid? Can we have a more robust

:45:03.:45:09.

stance in tackling the way Spain has treated Gibraltar, or are wd going

:45:10.:45:12.

to continue with the Foreign Office line of effectively diplomatic

:45:13.:45:17.

pussyfooting which allows Spain to continue to think that they might

:45:18.:45:24.

one day achieve their wish of claiming the rock under the Spanish

:45:25.:45:29.

flag? They are going to see a completely implacable and rocklike

:45:30.:45:32.

resistance on the part of this government to any such clail, and we

:45:33.:45:41.

see no justification in law for that claim. On the other hand, wd see no

:45:42.:45:50.

particular reason to be in `ny way difficult with our friends hn

:45:51.:45:56.

and we simply make our point and we simply make our point

:45:57.:46:03.

politely but firmly. I think, I remember, if you remember when, I

:46:04.:46:06.

think the Spanish Foreign Mhnister raised it with me and I felt that,

:46:07.:46:12.

you remember Marlon Brando hn the Godfather, he said, I must tell you,

:46:13.:46:21.

I must tell you, my answer hs no. If they do get difficult and they have

:46:22.:46:23.

been difficult, they have done some things that have made that lives

:46:24.:46:27.

after both residents pretty bad over the years, can we expect thoroughly

:46:28.:46:32.

robust response from now on rather than effectively diplomatic`lly

:46:33.:46:34.

pushing the issue into the long grass? Well, is it we have been very

:46:35.:46:45.

clear that we see no grounds whatsoever for any change to the

:46:46.:46:49.

sovereignty of Gibraltar. The people of Gibraltar, by 98.5% support the

:46:50.:46:56.

status quo and that will relain Would you welcome the possibility of

:46:57.:47:01.

a visit to Gibraltar by Her Majesty The Queen? She has not been for over

:47:02.:47:04.

50 years. The people of Gibraltar has asked repeatedly over the last

:47:05.:47:11.

decade that their Queen visht Gibraltar but for some reason, the

:47:12.:47:14.

Foreign Office have never sdemed to recommend that to Her Majesty. Would

:47:15.:47:18.

you make a change of policy on that issue? I am more than happy to

:47:19.:47:26.

consult the Palace about thhs, I do not know the thinking behind Her

:47:27.:47:36.

Majesty's itinerary. Obviously, a lot of people want Her Majesty to go

:47:37.:47:41.

to a lot of places at the moment. She is a much in the mind pdrson

:47:42.:47:48.

across the world. We have to do -- she is much in demand across the

:47:49.:47:51.

world so we have to be careful with promises. Can I commend you on your

:47:52.:47:57.

well-known robust stance in terms of supporting self-determination for

:47:58.:48:06.

all the peoples of former British colonies, particularly Gibr`ltar and

:48:07.:48:08.

have consistently spoken out in have consistently spoken out in

:48:09.:48:14.

confirm that that is your vhew confirm that that is your vhew

:48:15.:48:18.

today, that is the view of the British government that all peoples

:48:19.:48:25.

of all former British colonhes should have the absolute right of

:48:26.:48:29.

self-determination? Of course. That is our view, and if you look at what

:48:30.:48:37.

is happening in the Falklands and our relations with Argentin`, we

:48:38.:48:46.

relationship with brightness varies relationship with brightness varies

:48:47.:48:52.

is actually improving simplx by parking the Falklands.

:48:53.:48:56.

Self-determination is the principal, the people themselves, would that

:48:57.:49:00.

involves Norfolk Island as well I cannot remember what their views

:49:01.:49:13.

are. Would their views be epually as respected as the people of the

:49:14.:49:15.

Falkland Islands, to give an example? We have no intention of

:49:16.:49:20.

changing government policy towards Norfolk Island or its peopld. Their

:49:21.:49:26.

rights would be... Soap self-determination you support? Ie

:49:27.:49:33.

Support self-determination generally. How about the Ch`gos

:49:34.:49:42.

Islands? Matters and -- that is an overseas territory, would you agree

:49:43.:49:47.

with that? That is a diffictlt question because there are, as you

:49:48.:49:52.

know, some residents of the Chagos Islands who have been moved from

:49:53.:49:56.

that area and we are conscious of their concerns and I have mdt some

:49:57.:50:04.

of them and we are in a state of negotiations with them at the

:50:05.:50:11.

moment. But the position of Diego Garcia and the rest of thosd islands

:50:12.:50:15.

remains unchanged. One final question, if I may, will thd

:50:16.:50:23.

government consider the possibility of restoring oil yachts, and if so,

:50:24.:50:29.

will you be giving your full support to that policy? -- restoring a royal

:50:30.:50:33.

yacht. It is not a government priority, I must tell you

:50:34.:50:39.

regretfully. I must also inform you, Tallaght, that the former Royal

:50:40.:50:45.

yacht Britannia is, I am told, incapable of being refloated because

:50:46.:50:49.

the engine has been removed, and a whole has been carved in its side to

:50:50.:50:53.

make it into a museum. So you cannot do that. What I have said is that if

:50:54.:51:02.

the consortium of philanthropists, if they wished to give Her Lajesty

:51:03.:51:08.

yachts and pay for it, then obviously, that is not something I

:51:09.:51:23.

would impede. Sorry...? There is a bit of good news about Syri` over

:51:24.:51:30.

the last 24 hours, in that the United States, the United States

:51:31.:51:45.

and... Are meeting in Switzdrland to discuss what may happen in the

:51:46.:51:50.

future. With that meeting t`king place, with Russia, that must be a

:51:51.:52:02.

hopeful developments. And in that case, I am speaking for mysdlf, who

:52:03.:52:09.

advocated marching outside embassies, we do agree that in this

:52:10.:52:15.

case, it would be advisable to wait to see what comes out of thhs

:52:16.:52:21.

does not come out the way wd want it does not come out the way wd want it

:52:22.:52:25.

to come out, we should involve marching on all the embassids,

:52:26.:52:31.

involved in the current sittation in Syria? Thank you, Mrs Cluett. I

:52:32.:52:42.

think obviously we must all hope that the contact between thd

:52:43.:52:45.

Russians and the Americans does produce something. We have been here

:52:46.:52:52.

before, I think everyone will agree, many times, the process previously

:52:53.:53:03.

carried on for a while, it did not interrupt the bombing, you will have

:53:04.:53:06.

seen from the front pages of today's papers that that continues, people

:53:07.:53:11.

are continuing to buy in Aldppo spa more civilians being killed than

:53:12.:53:19.

militiamen. -- people are continuing to die in Aleppo. This is a terrible

:53:20.:53:29.

thing happening to humanity. You talk about this in the Housd and I

:53:30.:53:33.

thought you were right. I thought thought you were right. I thought

:53:34.:53:36.

you were right to talk about the peculiarity that the stop the War

:53:37.:53:38.

coalition do not pick it suhtable to coalition do not pick it suhtable to

:53:39.:53:42.

protest against this partictlar war of aggression against a civhlian

:53:43.:53:48.

population and that is an oddity that has been noticed. And H remark

:53:49.:53:53.

upon it again. The point I `m making is that given the number of players

:53:54.:53:58.

in this horrible situation, that perhaps if this weekend, if they may

:53:59.:54:04.

come to some agreement, we can also focused attention on the other

:54:05.:54:10.

countries involved. Let me be very direct. I think it is important not

:54:11.:54:16.

to let the general sort of blame game diffuse the central

:54:17.:54:22.

responsibility for what is taking place. This is the Assad regime the

:54:23.:54:26.

400,000 people who have died in 400,000 people who have died in

:54:27.:54:31.

Syria, 95% of them have been killed by the Assad regime. They are being

:54:32.:54:35.

backed up by the Russians. @nd the irradiance. Those are the ctlprits.

:54:36.:54:48.

-- the Irani and is. How many casualties has been taken? Ly

:54:49.:54:52.

information from the Foreign Office is that the vast majority of the

:54:53.:54:57.

sustained... I am assuming xou meant sustained... I am assuming xou meant

:54:58.:55:05.

the conflict as a whole. Thd conflict as a halt. I have heard. I

:55:06.:55:14.

have heard that it is 70,000. I defer to you, the figures I have

:55:15.:55:20.

been told is that the Assad regime is responsible, of the 400,000

:55:21.:55:26.

fatalities, that is regularly quoted by the UN and by special

:55:27.:55:33.

representatives, the overwhdlming majority to the best of my knowledge

:55:34.:55:36.

have been claimed by the Assad regime. And my point is that should

:55:37.:55:51.

be the focus of our outrage and as I say, I think it peculiar that the

:55:52.:55:55.

Stop the War coalition does not see it that way. Can I ask what policy

:55:56.:56:05.

options, you think are open to the UK to respond to events in @leppo?

:56:06.:56:10.

As I said in my opening rem`rks I think it is very important not to

:56:11.:56:16.

get hopes up too high, becatse you will remember where the parliament

:56:17.:56:27.

got to in 2013 when this has took a big step backwards from

:56:28.:56:29.

intervention. I thought that was regrettable at the time and I know

:56:30.:56:34.

you did as well, we have vacated the space that has been occupied by the

:56:35.:56:42.

Russians and our options now are to try on a humanitarian front to try

:56:43.:56:48.

and find extra help getting into Aleppo and do what we can to help

:56:49.:56:56.

warn the people of Aleppo about impending air strikes, to stpport

:56:57.:56:58.

the White helmets, to support all the White helmets, to support all

:56:59.:57:04.

identify sanctions on some of the identify sanctions on some of the

:57:05.:57:07.

key players in the Assad regime and on the Russians as well. And also it

:57:08.:57:13.

is right that we should be looking again at the more kinetic options

:57:14.:57:17.

and the military options. Wd must be realistic about how these in fact

:57:18.:57:24.

work, and what is deliverable. And certainly you cannot do anything

:57:25.:57:30.

without a coalition, without doing it with the Americans. And H think

:57:31.:57:39.

we are still a pretty long day's march from getting there. And that

:57:40.:57:41.

does not mean discussions are not does not mean discussions are not

:57:42.:57:47.

going on. They certainly ard. May I ask about this situation of the

:57:48.:57:55.

Kurds? There has been so much discussion about the role of the

:57:56.:57:57.

Peshmerga, they were influencing the Peshmerga, they were influencing the

:57:58.:58:06.

liberating of some people. The Turks have seemed to have turned `gainst

:58:07.:58:10.

the Kurds. I wonder how we `re going to attempt to protect the Ktrds

:58:11.:58:17.

having used them and praised them, how do we then protect them?

:58:18.:58:26.

There is no doubt that therd are difficulties with the Turkish

:58:27.:58:37.

Kurdish relations in the north of Syria, and clearly the Turks have

:58:38.:58:46.

concerns about some groups of Kurds. They make no distinction between two

:58:47.:58:52.

groups, for instance. One thing everybody agrees, including the

:58:53.:59:00.

Turks, I think the Peshmerg`, the Iraqi Kurds who have been so

:59:01.:59:17.

important in driving Di -- Daesh out, they have the confidence of the

:59:18.:59:21.

leadership, which has been encouraging. Also very much on the

:59:22.:59:27.

agenda, the public seem to be very concerned about how we protdct the

:59:28.:59:36.

civilians once the liberation is underway. I am not quite cldar how

:59:37.:59:42.

that is going to happen. I think that is going to be a huge puestion

:59:43.:59:47.

for all of us in the course of the months ahead. Morsel must bd

:59:48.:00:11.

liberated it is going to be a difficult and delicate oper`tion.

:00:12.:00:17.

But the nettle has to be gr`sped, and it requires a great deal of

:00:18.:00:24.

thought and requires as to think about post-liberation of Mosul, how

:00:25.:00:27.

is it going to be ordered and run, who will be in charge, thesd are all

:00:28.:00:32.

questions we need to be answering now. What exactly is a role in

:00:33.:00:45.

Mosul? What is the UK doing? A role in Mosul is obviously to help

:00:46.:00:53.

prepare for the liberation of Mosul. And to think about how we whll

:00:54.:00:59.

ordered it. You may be interested to know that on Sunday I am calling a

:01:00.:01:07.

meeting of fellow foreign mhnisters, John Kerry is coming over, ly French

:01:08.:01:12.

counterpart, my German counterpart and others, to discuss exactly how

:01:13.:01:19.

we are going to proceed, not just in Syria, but in Iraq as well. But I

:01:20.:01:29.

think the general feeling is that obviously it is good that things are

:01:30.:01:34.

happening again in Geneva, but most people, and I think including John

:01:35.:01:43.

Kerry, feel that the process of argument and discussion with the

:01:44.:01:48.

Russians has basically run out of road. And on Sunday we will be

:01:49.:01:52.

talking about all the options that we think are available to us and to

:01:53.:01:57.

the West. I am not going to pretend that there is any easy answdr here,

:01:58.:02:03.

because there is not. But I think most people, and I am interdsted in

:02:04.:02:11.

what you say about polls from the UK public. Most people, I think, are

:02:12.:02:18.

now changing their minds about this and thinking, we cannot let this go

:02:19.:02:23.

on forever. We cannot just see a label pulverised in this wax. And I

:02:24.:02:27.

thought the mood of the House of Commons was very telling. -, Aleppo

:02:28.:02:33.

pulverised in this way. Whether that means we can get a Coalition

:02:34.:02:39.

together for more kinetic action now, I cannot profit size. ,-

:02:40.:02:48.

predict. But most people want to see a new set of options. Foreign

:02:49.:03:03.

Secretary, can I ask you... Are you satisfied that the protection of

:03:04.:03:09.

civilians is something in otr sights, given the horrible stories

:03:10.:03:14.

coming out of their, giving the role of Saudi Arabia, given a role in

:03:15.:03:27.

selling arms to Saudi Arabi`? - our role. Probably the most elaborate of

:03:28.:03:34.

any arms exporting country, an elaborate system, to check what we

:03:35.:03:44.

are exporting is being used conforming to international

:03:45.:03:49.

humanitarian law, and we take all allegations, all the news from Yemen

:03:50.:03:55.

incredibly seriously. You s`w what happened on Saturday, it was

:03:56.:04:06.

extremely worrying. We have to encourage, and we do encour`ge

:04:07.:04:10.

strongly, our Saudi friends to go for ceasefire, to sort this out and

:04:11.:04:15.

to investigate thoroughly what has taken

:04:16.:04:25.

place, and the other investdd let us come back to a substantial subject

:04:26.:04:30.

which deserve some signific`nt time of its own. Back to your inhtial

:04:31.:04:36.

remarks where you said you wanted to forge a new identity as a global

:04:37.:04:43.

Britain. You controversiallx drew attention to the heritage of the

:04:44.:04:52.

United States president, part Kenyan, and you yourself up at

:04:53.:04:59.

American and part Turkish hdritage. -- you yourself up at American and

:05:00.:05:03.

part Turkish heritage. Are xou a citizen of the world? It usdd to say

:05:04.:05:12.

on the side of jars of honex in Sainsbury's, produce more than one

:05:13.:05:16.

country. Yes, I certainly al in that sense, and I think we all are. The

:05:17.:05:19.

human race probably emerged from Africa. That is why, by the way I

:05:20.:05:30.

was so offended by the French Prime Minister's article in the FT today.

:05:31.:05:36.

Are you offended by the Prile Minister's attack on the people who

:05:37.:05:44.

see themselves as citizens of the world at your speech at the

:05:45.:05:49.

conference? I am a citizen of the UK, and proud. So are we all. That

:05:50.:06:00.

is our primary identity. I `lso think that we're all part of the

:06:01.:06:13.

same great species. I'll get back to my point, we should be open to

:06:14.:06:17.

people of other countries, we clearly should, and it is something

:06:18.:06:21.

that has been of immense value. It is a two-way thing. Britain is the

:06:22.:06:27.

biggest exporter of its own people of all the countries. We send Brits

:06:28.:06:32.

abroad, and it is a fantasthc thing that we do, and the world in my view

:06:33.:06:36.

is a better thing for it. And Britain is also better for having

:06:37.:06:39.

some brilliant people working here. Good. Including, perhaps, on plans

:06:40.:06:45.

on how we deal with the European Union people working at the NLC and

:06:46.:06:54.

elsewhere? I am glad you mentioned that because I am able to knock that

:06:55.:07:02.

on the head. That was absoltte nonsense. Someone rang up the

:07:03.:07:09.

Foreign Office or there was a phone conversation in which it was made

:07:10.:07:13.

clear what is standard procddure, anybody working for the Fordign

:07:14.:07:19.

Office or for the FCO or melber of staff or secondment has got to get

:07:20.:07:23.

security clearance, that has always been the case. There is absolutely

:07:24.:07:26.

no reason for anyone who is supplying research data or whatever

:07:27.:07:34.

analysis to us to have security clearance. The LFC inaccurately

:07:35.:07:42.

reported this in an e-mail `nd presented it, someone did, `s a

:07:43.:07:49.

post-referendum changing policy and it wasn't true. It was not true Has

:07:50.:07:58.

anything changed? Nothing h`s changed. Can I then ask you about

:07:59.:08:05.

this relationship between your department and the Department for

:08:06.:08:11.

leaving the European Union? The Secretary of State, your colleague

:08:12.:08:16.

David Davis, came before us a few weeks ago and I asked him qtestions

:08:17.:08:18.

about that, and I asked him whether UKREP would report

:08:19.:08:46.

to him or the Foreign Officd or the Department for leaving the DU? Of

:08:47.:08:50.

course it does. I have regular contact with Ivan Rogers, all

:08:51.:08:59.

European embassies, obviously we run the network. I want to stress, of

:09:00.:09:07.

all the fictions in the medha, this idea that these three competing

:09:08.:09:14.

polls Foreign Office, it is complete nonsense. We are working together.

:09:15.:09:20.

The FCO holds the network, we are immensely supportive of the work

:09:21.:09:25.

being done by the other two departments. We have to get on with

:09:26.:09:29.

it. In that context, there has been the referendum vote caused by

:09:30.:09:37.

ministers in France, in Italy, in Germany, for a revitalisation

:09:38.:09:46.

towards an EU defence policx. - called by ministers. Secret`ry of

:09:47.:09:51.

defence says we would block such a development, but given that we're

:09:52.:09:55.

intending to be out of the DU within two years or so, is it wise for us

:09:56.:10:01.

to obstruct what other EU countries wish to do to increase their defence

:10:02.:10:08.

cooperation? Want it actually damage the possibility of us getting a good

:10:09.:10:11.

deal in the negotiations if we take that attitude? A couple of points.

:10:12.:10:19.

Firstly it is perfectly right to point out, as Michael Fallon has

:10:20.:10:24.

done, that any defence pact that undermines Nato is a bad idda, and

:10:25.:10:29.

we have got to make sure th`t the defence architecture of Europe and

:10:30.:10:35.

is part of the world contintes to have the Americans very much in it.

:10:36.:10:39.

That is widely understood across other European capitals. If our

:10:40.:10:48.

friends want to go ahead with new security architecture, as they have

:10:49.:10:53.

pledged to do many times ovdr the last four decades, because H

:10:54.:10:56.

remember all of them quite well I do not think, as you indicate,

:10:57.:11:01.

post-Brexit we can reasonably stand in their way. They think wh`t we

:11:02.:11:06.

might suggest is that given that we are the biggest military pl`yer in

:11:07.:11:14.

the area, the second-biggest nuclear power, it would not be a bad idea if

:11:15.:11:21.

they go ahead with such things, a way in which Britain could be

:11:22.:11:27.

supportive and involved in the enterprise. Finally, I am not sure

:11:28.:11:46.

how much time we have left, and your predecessor but one, Willial Hague,

:11:47.:11:53.

in November 2012 said that the UK recognised the National Coalition of

:11:54.:11:58.

Syrian revolution and opposhtion forces as they sole legitim`te

:11:59.:12:05.

representative of Syrian people There was some questions about that.

:12:06.:12:10.

I myself queried it in terms of didn't really represent all the

:12:11.:12:15.

opposition forces? Is it sthll the position of the government that the

:12:16.:12:22.

National Coalition of a sold legitimate representative of the

:12:23.:12:22.

Syrian people? The high negotiations committee

:12:23.:12:37.

which is this broadly -based body... Which is wider? Which is wider. It

:12:38.:12:44.

has a great deal of credibility they should be at the centrd of the

:12:45.:12:49.

Geneva negotiations, but I do not exclude that there might be others

:12:50.:12:55.

who could also have a claim, and we should not be so Cartesian `bout it.

:12:56.:13:04.

If there are others who want to be useful to the future of Syrha, of

:13:05.:13:08.

course there are claims shotld be considered, if they are democratic,

:13:09.:13:13.

pluralistic and so on. So you are confirming that the governmdnt no

:13:14.:13:17.

longer regards the National Coalition as the sole legithmate

:13:18.:13:18.

representative? What I'm saying is that we think the

:13:19.:13:29.

HNC is a credible voice for those opposition groups. We may w`nt to

:13:30.:13:39.

explore that. Finally, choosing the urgent statement we had on the

:13:40.:13:43.

debate which Andrew Mitchell introduced a couple of days ago

:13:44.:13:50.

parallels were drawn between what Russia is doing in Aleppo whth what

:13:51.:13:58.

the NAT sees did in Guernic`. Given the history of what Russia has done

:13:59.:14:07.

in Ukraine, what it did in Georgia, what it did internally in its own

:14:08.:14:15.

country, isn't it time for ts to fundamentally reassess our `ttitude

:14:16.:14:21.

to Russia and link to that, given the threat to the Baltic st`tes the

:14:22.:14:27.

positioning of nuclear misshles which can potentially keep Bergman

:14:28.:14:36.

as well as Poland, and the revelations about the hacking of the

:14:37.:14:39.

Democratic National committde and the attempts to interfere in the

:14:40.:14:45.

American election process. Do we not need a fundamental reassesslent of

:14:46.:14:50.

our attitude to Russia? I hdard your speech the other day in the Commons

:14:51.:14:56.

about Wernick and the Russi`n bombing and I think your fedlings

:14:57.:15:02.

are shared by millions of pdople in this country. Two points, it is very

:15:03.:15:09.

important to stress, we havd no quarrel with the Russian people we

:15:10.:15:15.

are not hostile to Russia as a country, far from it. I would go

:15:16.:15:21.

further, I would say I don't believe Russia, for all it is doing many

:15:22.:15:28.

terrible things, as you rightly say, but I don't think Russia today can

:15:29.:15:35.

be compared with the soviet union I remembered as a child, I do think it

:15:36.:15:39.

is as much of a threat to the stability of the world as the former

:15:40.:15:43.

Soviet Union. I do think it's entirely right to talk about a new

:15:44.:15:56.

Cold War, but you correctly list the ways in which Russia is being

:15:57.:16:01.

reckless and aggressive and it is obvious we have a serious problem.

:16:02.:16:10.

Our sanctions are biting, the Russian economy shrank by almost

:16:11.:16:23.

3.5% more last year. It is top for people in Russia, but the rdgime

:16:24.:16:28.

seems determined to remain on its present course. I think we have to

:16:29.:16:33.

remain very, very tough, and it is the UK that is in the lead, both the

:16:34.:16:40.

UN security council in drafting passing resolutions on Russha's

:16:41.:16:47.

behaviour, it is the UK that has escalated the question of whether

:16:48.:16:53.

the bombing of Aleppo might amount to a war crime, and it is the UK

:16:54.:16:57.

that is in the lead in making sure we keep the sanctions tight on

:16:58.:17:03.

Russia, because of what is happening in the Ukraine. There is another

:17:04.:17:10.

terrible conflict, 9200 livds claimed in eastern Ukraine. I cannot

:17:11.:17:17.

disagree with your analysis. We have a very serious problem, but we have

:17:18.:17:24.

to engage with Russia, we h`ve to persuade the Russian governlent we

:17:25.:17:27.

have to persuade Vladimir Pttin that there is another path for hhm and

:17:28.:17:32.

his government and if he will be the way and bring peace to surgdry, then

:17:33.:17:40.

he will deserve credit and the thanks of the people of this world,

:17:41.:17:45.

but if he continues on the present path of barbarism, then I'm afraid,

:17:46.:17:54.

Russia is in danger of being reduced to the status of the rogue nation. I

:17:55.:17:58.

think that would be a tragedy, when you consider where we were 25 years

:17:59.:18:04.

ago, when we had such hopes at the end of the Cold War, we really hoped

:18:05.:18:09.

it could be seen different. I don't want us to get back into illogic of

:18:10.:18:14.

endless confrontation with Russia in every part of the world. Th`t would

:18:15.:18:19.

be crazy. There are things we have to do together. We happen to fight

:18:20.:18:32.

terror of together. Russian holiday-makers and British

:18:33.:18:34.

holiday-makers both face thd threat of being blown out of the sky by

:18:35.:18:36.

terrorists. We have common interests. But at the moment, the

:18:37.:18:38.

behaviour of the Russian government is making it very difficult to

:18:39.:18:44.

pursue those interests together While on the subject, what dffect do

:18:45.:18:49.

you think sanctions are havhng on Russia? Specifically, are they

:18:50.:18:59.

changing Russian policy? Thd sanctions are biting, the Rtssian

:19:00.:19:03.

economy has shrunk, but the effects of the sanctions is hard to

:19:04.:19:08.

distinguish from the result of the collapse in the price of

:19:09.:19:13.

hydrocarbons, but there is no doubt the sanctions have hurt the

:19:14.:19:18.

Russians, particularly in their ability to raise finance. Wd must

:19:19.:19:24.

continue that pressure. It's not uncontroversial with our European

:19:25.:19:29.

friends, there are plenty of my fellow foreign ministers in the EU

:19:30.:19:36.

who have told me privately that they feel their economies are fedling the

:19:37.:19:42.

pressure of the sanctions, because after all, they may have

:19:43.:19:46.

considerable trade with Russia. Our own trade with Russia has f`llen

:19:47.:19:51.

dramatically, boldly going these sanctions. -- following these

:19:52.:19:57.

sanctions. So the difficult conundrum you face is we ard now

:19:58.:20:09.

examining what to do about Russian activity in Syria, so far the

:20:10.:20:13.

available to us in Ukraine have had the policy effect. As you p`rtners

:20:14.:20:19.

are now questioning presumably the efficacy or their effect on the own

:20:20.:20:24.

economies. I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I would say thdy are

:20:25.:20:29.

certainly having an effect, they are biting. I think the strategx of the

:20:30.:20:42.

Russians seems to be to keep that area in turmoil, to meet Ukraine

:20:43.:20:46.

very difficult politically to govern as a United entity. And I'm afraid

:20:47.:20:55.

that we could be in for a long war here. Chart a route as to how we get

:20:56.:21:04.

Russia out the cul-de-sac it has placed itself in. I'm afraid it

:21:05.:21:12.

needs both sides in Ukraine to make progress. And I do think, I went

:21:13.:21:18.

there to see for myself what is going on. You mustn't underdstimate

:21:19.:21:26.

the psychological effect on the people of Ukraine of this w`r. They

:21:27.:21:30.

have lost lots of people. Wd're going next week. I'm delighted to

:21:31.:21:36.

hear that. If you're very ddeply and bitterly about what Russia hs doing.

:21:37.:21:41.

But it's also true, and is incredibly difficult, it's `lso true

:21:42.:21:47.

that they have to take the thing forward. Their needs at somd stage

:21:48.:21:53.

to be a democratic process hn the region. The process has two get

:21:54.:21:59.

going. That means there has to be reform in the Ukraine and progress

:22:00.:22:07.

has perhaps gone as fast as big Ukraine leadership would like. My

:22:08.:22:14.

question was picking up your wider strategic points on the need to have

:22:15.:22:17.

a constructive relationship with Russia and be interest we h`ve in

:22:18.:22:24.

common, yet at the same timd, you are talking about Russia becoming a

:22:25.:22:30.

pariah state, the terms are ambassador spoke with were dxtremely

:22:31.:22:38.

severe. How are we going to get Russia into a place where wd can

:22:39.:22:41.

begin to have that kind of constructive relationship? Xou have

:22:42.:22:48.

something of an authority in this area sitting next to you. Yds, both

:22:49.:22:56.

in Kiev and Moscow, he has represented us. Russia is a great

:22:57.:23:03.

country. I went there when H was 16, it's an extraordinary culture and

:23:04.:23:08.

civilisation, from which we can learn endlessly with profit. We

:23:09.:23:12.

should be friends with the Russians, we should be building relathonships,

:23:13.:23:16.

we should be keeping channels open, we should be constantly talking to

:23:17.:23:24.

them. We mustn't get into illogic of being at war, that would be totally

:23:25.:23:31.

wrong. But I think the way forward is for us to recognise that about

:23:32.:23:37.

Russia, the knowledge that Russia's importance on the world stage, but

:23:38.:23:41.

to make it clear that that recognition is only possibld if they

:23:42.:23:49.

will cease from what I'm afraid our barbaric acts in Aleppo and in Syria

:23:50.:24:02.

and they need to find a way forward in Ukraine. You can see what happens

:24:03.:24:10.

to the former Soviet Union over the past 25 years. Everyone can see the

:24:11.:24:16.

reasons why the Russians might collectively feel that they have

:24:17.:24:22.

been squeezed, they have lost huge amounts of territory that they once

:24:23.:24:27.

conceived of as belonging to them. They see Nato rings round. Xou have

:24:28.:24:33.

to see things to a certain dxtent from the Russian point of vhew. The

:24:34.:24:39.

Russians have got to understand that the way forward for them is to do

:24:40.:24:43.

the right thing and do the right thing means doing a deal in Syria,

:24:44.:24:55.

let's hope that John Kerry `nd his kind will have success on S`turday.

:24:56.:25:06.

But the point is that Mr Gates makes about Russian cyber activitx and all

:25:07.:25:11.

that is, those are very valhd, and we need to think about them. The

:25:12.:25:20.

answer is to engage. Sorry. Moving back to Syria, will take thd

:25:21.:25:28.

opportunity to take evidencd from Hugh Orde the responsible mhnister

:25:29.:25:36.

before we conclude that enqtiry Turning back to Syria. And our

:25:37.:25:44.

understanding of the Syrian position, highlighting the challenge

:25:45.:25:49.

of casualties. How well do we understand the reason for the

:25:50.:25:53.

resilience of the Assad reghme and I wonder if there's anything further

:25:54.:25:58.

you can see casualties. I understand the Syrian army had taken thousands

:25:59.:26:11.

of casualties. Is the carnage on both sides here? Is there and miss

:26:12.:26:19.

appreciation of why people hn Syria might not like it, why they are

:26:20.:26:23.

looking to the regime for sdcurity, because they are fearful of the

:26:24.:26:31.

Islamist threat? Clearly, one of the things that Assad did almost

:26:32.:26:41.

immediately in 2011 was to create this false equivalence, to create

:26:42.:26:48.

this scenario in which he w`s inviting everybody to choosd between

:26:49.:26:56.

himself and a bunch of jihadists. And that is not true, there is a

:26:57.:27:03.

significant model its opposhtion. I can give you the figures for the

:27:04.:27:10.

casualties. If I can write to you about that. I would be gratdful

:27:11.:27:16.

Turning to the moderate opposition, the hard power of the HNC and the

:27:17.:27:23.

free Syrian army have on thd ground, can you give us an assessment of the

:27:24.:27:26.

hard power they have in this conflict. The evidence suggdsts that

:27:27.:27:36.

is not particularly great. This has been the subject of a great deal of

:27:37.:27:41.

controversy. I remember a former Prime Minister used the figtre of

:27:42.:27:51.

70,000 in their House for the number of moderate opposition fighters I'm

:27:52.:27:57.

not going to give you a particular figure, I'm told their numbdrs are

:27:58.:28:02.

still very substantial, thotgh obviously one of the disastdrs of

:28:03.:28:07.

what has been happening is that the modern look people, as a result of

:28:08.:28:11.

the behaviour of the Assad regime and the feeling that nobody is

:28:12.:28:15.

sticking up for them, have become more radicalised. I don't think

:28:16.:28:19.

there's any particular controversy about that, but there are still

:28:20.:28:28.

large areas in many parts of Syria which are basically run by `

:28:29.:28:33.

moderate opposition, and we should never forget that.

:28:34.:28:42.

Our Syria strategy is under assessment, after everything that

:28:43.:28:48.

happened. Are the meeting is going to include, I have seen reports that

:28:49.:28:52.

might include Foreign Minister meeting between Turkey, Iran, Saudi

:28:53.:28:59.

Arabia, Qatar, alongside thd United States and Russia. Could yot give us

:29:00.:29:04.

a picture of what the diplolatic activity is this weekend? And how it

:29:05.:29:13.

comes together on Sunday? Wdll, what we're on Sunday is bringing together

:29:14.:29:23.

like-minded countries to sed... You will know that the Syrian dhplomacy

:29:24.:29:27.

has been conducted basicallx through the International Syria support

:29:28.:29:34.

group, and that has brought together 25 countries, a big forum, with the

:29:35.:29:41.

Russians and the Americans sitting as joint chair, and everyond else

:29:42.:29:46.

around them. So we have had the Iranians and everybody and hn the

:29:47.:29:57.

end what happened in the last session was extremely acrimonious...

:29:58.:30:07.

It turned into a slanging m`tch in which the Iranians came to the

:30:08.:30:12.

assistance of the Russians, and the conversation really got nowhere We

:30:13.:30:18.

need to think about what our options are. And so on Sunday we will be

:30:19.:30:34.

getting John Kerry and others, like-minded group, I cannot give you

:30:35.:30:43.

the exact people, it is in the process of being confirmed.

:30:44.:30:49.

Like-minded countries who whsh to canvass all the options, and I

:30:50.:30:56.

repeat my caution to the colmittee, those options of course include more

:30:57.:31:06.

kinetic action but there were great difficulties... Take us through

:31:07.:31:13.

presumably one of the difficulties of the current administration says

:31:14.:31:21.

it is against no-fly zones because of the difficulties you havd alluded

:31:22.:31:26.

to. What change the link might come with a new administration under the

:31:27.:31:33.

stated policies of Hillary Clinton? It is really too early to s`y. I

:31:34.:31:37.

have had discussions with some people in Washington who max or may

:31:38.:31:43.

not be close to any future administration, but I just think

:31:44.:31:50.

Hillary Clinton has taken a tougher line on Syria than perhaps the

:31:51.:31:56.

current White House, but I really think it is too early to prddict.

:31:57.:32:01.

How close do you think the Russians and the Assad regime at two reaching

:32:02.:32:06.

their military objectives? @gain I would not like to speculate. The

:32:07.:32:12.

tragedy is that they might `chieve what they think are the milhtary

:32:13.:32:16.

objectives, but that would not be a victory. They have got to understand

:32:17.:32:20.

that whatever happens, they will not have conquered and recapturdd the

:32:21.:32:25.

people of Syria. He has dond too much damage, murdered too m`ny

:32:26.:32:30.

people ever to have a claim to be the ruler of a united Syria again. I

:32:31.:32:34.

think we are right to say hd cannot be part of the solution. Thdre has

:32:35.:32:47.

got to be a transition away from Assad. Section 2264 sketches out the

:32:48.:32:54.

route map, a six-month period of continuity, then 18 months... Do not

:32:55.:33:06.

forget it was only a few ye`rs ago, in 2012, that the Russians were on

:33:07.:33:13.

the verge of dumping him thdmselves. This thing is possible, and people

:33:14.:33:19.

should not lose hope. We have had a discussion at the beginning of this

:33:20.:33:22.

about the efficacy of sancthons on Russia, particularly the Ukraine --

:33:23.:33:38.

Russia, and Ukraine. With rdgard to Syria, what sanctions will be

:33:39.:33:43.

available given Russian acthon in Syria? And how do you differentiate

:33:44.:33:51.

those actions with the sanctions applying to Russia on the Ukraine?

:33:52.:33:58.

The big anomaly in the whold issue of sanctions against Russia is that

:33:59.:34:04.

much of Western Europe conthnues to take huge amount of Russian gas

:34:05.:34:13.

and, you know, there are sole European countries that say that is

:34:14.:34:17.

where the sanctions should go next. That would be very difficult because

:34:18.:34:21.

I think 50% of German gas stpplies come from Russia. You know, that is

:34:22.:34:30.

big stuff. That would be dalaging to those economies as well as to

:34:31.:34:39.

Russia. I'm going to allow ly colleagues. I hope we can continue

:34:40.:34:43.

this until 11 o'clock. I just want to return briefly to Europe. On

:34:44.:34:52.

Brexit you said we're going to get the best possible deal for trade and

:34:53.:34:58.

services. It is perfectly possible that may be no deal because we

:34:59.:35:02.

cannot command the 27 on thd other side of the table, and the

:35:03.:35:11.

difficulty we face is that the better the deal looks for the United

:35:12.:35:14.

Kingdom, the more difficult it is politically to deliver among the 27,

:35:15.:35:19.

and it may get vetoed by thd European Parliament anyway, and we

:35:20.:35:25.

cannot control that Parliamdnt let alone as. Which is why I thhnk it is

:35:26.:35:30.

so important to recast this whole conversation and to look at Brexit

:35:31.:35:34.

is an evolution in the development of the EU. And as a solution to the

:35:35.:35:39.

British problem, and to stop thinking of it as this acrilonious

:35:40.:35:46.

divorce. It is not going to be like that, it is going to be devdloping a

:35:47.:35:50.

new European partnership between Britain and the EU, and it will be

:35:51.:35:54.

beneficial for both sides. That is the way to look at it. However the

:35:55.:35:59.

first phase of that might bd a two-year negotiation which does not

:36:00.:36:04.

end in a deal. Let us see where we get to. What I am inviting xou to do

:36:05.:36:10.

is to assist this committee and identifying what the conseqtences of

:36:11.:36:15.

no deal would be because business and commerce and industry could do

:36:16.:36:22.

with ideal of certainty, if the worst case scenario is no ddal, how

:36:23.:36:26.

bad is that, what are the implications, what does it lean for

:36:27.:36:29.

trade policy, and this commhttee was very critical of the last

:36:30.:36:35.

government, and I notice in your response to a report on the

:36:36.:36:39.

implications of Brexit, in xour rather brief letter we may be asking

:36:40.:36:43.

you to give a slightly more substantive reply to that rdport,

:36:44.:36:47.

that you offered no defence to this committee's charge that the last

:36:48.:36:51.

administration had been grossly negligent in failing to do `ny

:36:52.:36:53.

contingency planning that the electorate might vote for Brexit.

:36:54.:37:00.

And I think you should be doing we should be making it clear to

:37:01.:37:04.

business, industry and commdrce what the implications of no deal would

:37:05.:37:08.

be, because no deal is perfdctly possible and we cannot control the

:37:09.:37:13.

outcome of these negotiations. Well, a couple of points. Obviously I do

:37:14.:37:19.

not take any particular responsibility for the failtre of

:37:20.:37:26.

the government to produce a plan... It was evident in your lettdr. It

:37:27.:37:33.

was one of my charges in my run up to June the 23rd. Seriously, on the

:37:34.:37:41.

deal or no Deal question, I think there will be a deal. I think it

:37:42.:37:49.

will be a great deal. I do not for one moment suppose this to be the

:37:50.:37:53.

case, if it cannot be done hn two years, there are mechanisms for

:37:54.:37:57.

extending the period of discussion. I do not think that would bd

:37:58.:38:03.

necessary, I think we can do it and we can produce... But I think your

:38:04.:38:08.

characterisation of it is correct, it is the first step of a process

:38:09.:38:14.

for relationships in the EU, and it may be that we move towards a deeper

:38:15.:38:17.

comprehensive trade agreement in the usual timescale for the EU doing

:38:18.:38:24.

these things, but we need to give some degree of certainty to industry

:38:25.:38:29.

and commerce for the decisions they will take over the next two and a

:38:30.:38:35.

half years. They can be absolutely certain that Britain is the number

:38:36.:38:38.

one place to invest in the region simply because of our time zone

:38:39.:38:46.

language, skills base, incrddible diversity of our economy in the 21st

:38:47.:38:50.

century sectors. We are the place to come. That is going to be a giant

:38:51.:38:59.

fact of life. Even if we ardn't our partners are so foolish as not to do

:39:00.:39:07.

a great deal, I am confident we will because it is profoundly in the

:39:08.:39:11.

interest of elected politichans like ourselves over the channel to do it

:39:12.:39:17.

for the good of their consthtuents, that is what this is all about. In

:39:18.:39:20.

the end this is not about theology, this is not about the ideology of

:39:21.:39:28.

the European Union, that is entirely secondary to the imperative of

:39:29.:39:35.

taking forward the European economy, a strong European economy and a

:39:36.:39:40.

strong British economy. I look forward to the assistance of the

:39:41.:39:42.

office into the enquiry of the consequences of no deal. Very

:39:43.:39:50.

briefly. Currently we implelent European Union sanctions, and as you

:39:51.:39:56.

have said we are at the fordfront of the President for those. Whdn we

:39:57.:40:00.

leave the EU, will we still be implementing the EU sanctions or

:40:01.:40:06.

will be, because we have a lore robust attitude, move towards the

:40:07.:40:09.

position like the United St`tes and perhaps move towards a similar act

:40:10.:40:18.

that they have. It is a question I have been thinking a great deal

:40:19.:40:22.

about, how exactly it is gohng to work, we have been thinking about it

:40:23.:40:26.

with our European friends bdcause clearly they want us to stick with

:40:27.:40:31.

them in a Broadway when it comes to these foreign policy questions. --

:40:32.:40:41.

in a broad way. Do we all h`ve to be around a table in the EU Cotncil are

:40:42.:40:44.

there other intergovernment`l mechanisms that we are going to

:40:45.:40:48.

produce to reflect the new Duropean partnership between Britain and the

:40:49.:40:53.

EU that means we can do it hn a meaningful way? Either way, we're

:40:54.:40:59.

coming out of the treaties, whatever we do will be done purely

:41:00.:41:05.

intergovernmental, and it is going to be a strong interest in both

:41:06.:41:10.

sides to have a concerted approach, but what is interesting is ht might

:41:11.:41:16.

be that there will be scope for the UK sometimes to do things to go

:41:17.:41:24.

further. It might also be that we would want to keep ranks and March

:41:25.:41:35.

forward together. But that hs a discussion we are going to have over

:41:36.:41:40.

the course of negotiations. I will ask my colleagues in their final

:41:41.:41:43.

question to be brief, and wd are in your hands as to how long the

:41:44.:41:45.

answers take. Can I just press you a little bit on

:41:46.:42:03.

Syria, in the sense that I would, and many of us in Parliament, would

:42:04.:42:06.

urge you to be careful what you wish for and urge caution when it comes

:42:07.:42:08.

to contemplating additional military force. You will be the first to

:42:09.:42:10.

recognise that Syria represdnts multilayered conflict involving the

:42:11.:42:13.

old Persian Gulf rivalry around Saudi Arabia, Russia and thd West,

:42:14.:42:19.

and you have in the mix extremists etc. Of history is anything to go

:42:20.:42:26.

by, our involvement in Iraq, Helmand, Libya, and the fact we have

:42:27.:42:30.

almost changed sides and Syria, intentionally or not, we have got to

:42:31.:42:36.

progress with caution because force in the end has not always bden

:42:37.:42:39.

wholly positive. Many in thhs place have so far remained silent on this

:42:40.:42:44.

issue but will perhaps raisd their heads if it looks as though we are

:42:45.:42:47.

going down repeating previots errors when it comes to military

:42:48.:42:52.

intervention. I absolutely `ccept and understand that. By the way I

:42:53.:42:57.

understand completely what xou mean about the voices of caution that

:42:58.:43:01.

were not raised the other d`y in Parliament. I think we did have lots

:43:02.:43:06.

of passionate voices raised in favour of no-fly zones, and it is

:43:07.:43:10.

vital that we consider them and we will do that. But the points you

:43:11.:43:14.

make are certainly valid. Just whether Reckitt and th`nk you

:43:15.:43:29.

for it steams along to give your evidence, earlier, just aftdr I

:43:30.:43:33.

accuse you of not having a clue you said you were unhappy that David

:43:34.:43:38.

Cameron had signed up to thd Lisbon Treaty, but of course, Gordon Brown

:43:39.:43:47.

signed up to it. Let me just clarify. There was a pledge that

:43:48.:43:51.

they were going to have a rdferendum on the Lisbon Treaty, which in my

:43:52.:43:56.

view, regrettably, did not carry through. That's what I was referring

:43:57.:44:01.

to. Just one thing I should also clarify, I'm referred to moderate

:44:02.:44:11.

fighters in Homs, I should have said just north of Homs. Do you think we

:44:12.:44:17.

should suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia until we are satisfidd they

:44:18.:44:25.

are not being used in Yemen? I repeat what I said about our deep

:44:26.:44:33.

concern over what is happenhng in Yemen. On the export licenshng, we

:44:34.:44:39.

have one of the most robust systems in the world and we do conshder each

:44:40.:44:52.

one against the constant rotated -- Consolidated criteria. Export

:44:53.:44:58.

licences which do not meet those criteria are not licensed. We are

:44:59.:45:01.

keeping this under very cardful review. You have noted the report to

:45:02.:45:15.

be made on this. There is a requirement of this committde on

:45:16.:45:24.

getting proper investigations. One issue that is unresolved in Europe,

:45:25.:45:28.

nothing to do with the European union, is the issue of Cyprts. Will

:45:29.:45:34.

the Foreign Secretary undertake to work with the Republic of Cxprus and

:45:35.:45:40.

the Turkish Republic of Cyprus to work for a fair, amicable solution,

:45:41.:45:45.

while at the same time not conceding sovereignty over the British

:45:46.:45:54.

sovereign bases? We are potdntially on the verge of some great progress

:45:55.:46:00.

in Cyprus and I pay tribute to those on both sides. I met both shdes and

:46:01.:46:14.

the Foreign Minister in New York. The Turks are playing their role, we

:46:15.:46:20.

obviously have a role, and the territory of bases is huge hn

:46:21.:46:24.

Cyprus. We are willing to concede some of that territory to move the

:46:25.:46:32.

process forward, and I think that's a good thing. It's too earlx to come

:46:33.:46:38.

to a conclusion in Cyprus. Cyprus is one of the few examples in the world

:46:39.:46:49.

to leaders who are trying to make a difference for peace and behng

:46:50.:46:54.

willing to take a risk with the electorate is behind them, rather

:46:55.:47:05.

than just being the narrow party politics of the group that has got

:47:06.:47:08.

them into power. They're re`lly reaching out for peace, and I think

:47:09.:47:17.

they're doing a great thing. Your predecessor said pretty much the

:47:18.:47:23.

same thing a year ago, so ldt's hope will bring it home and Cyprts. Thank

:47:24.:47:31.

you very much for your eviddnce is smiling. Sir Tim, I'm afraid I may

:47:32.:47:44.

have called you Mr Barrel bx mistake. Apologies for that. All

:47:45.:47:48.

other meetings now adjourned.

:47:49.:47:52.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS