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What comfort can you give us that you are actually going to bd able to | :13:02. | :13:09. | |
spend money in places like hn Europe without reinforcing our bil`teral | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
relations in the wake of Brdxit There does not appear to be any | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
money kicking around at the minute. I think I have made a few points, we | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
live in strange circumstancds, we have to make our money go ftrther | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
than ever, we have a bigger network than the French with that acceptance | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
costs. We can be doing extrdmely well. We are can be proud. The | :13:36. | :13:45. | |
overall FCA budget is rising from 1.1 billion to 1.24 billion by 019. | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
I think where you are spot on if I may say, Mr Blunt, is in pohnting to | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
the very considerable sums that are available for ODA spending, we have | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
quite a lot of quite a lot of ODA quite a lot of quite a lot of ODA | :14:04. | :14:12. | |
think it is now to make surd, the think it is now to make surd, the | :14:13. | :14:20. | |
game now is to make sure th`t UK ODA stackable funds are used in such a | :14:21. | :14:29. | |
way in not just to serve to goals as they undoubtedly must, but `lso make | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
sure they mesh and with our diplomatic and political objectives. | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
I see absolutely no contradhction in that approach and that is something | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
I know that the government `t all levels agrees with. Secretary of | :14:45. | :14:52. | |
State, to pick that point up, that is fine but that only applids to | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
those countries that are subject to development assistance, you cannot | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
spend that money elsewhere. True. It is all very well having mondy there | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
but where our game needs to be raised is with the rest of the world | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
where our principal markets, existing markets are going to be, we | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
are reinforcing the work of the international trade departmdnt, but | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
you cannot do this on fresh air and all you have is fresh air to do this | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
on at the minute and meet these aspirations. I know you gavd my | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
predecessor quite a grilling about this when he last appeared before | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
you, and he made a very good point that he could imagine bidding for | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
more funds themselves, sincd he is now the Chancellor, I am pl`nning to | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
camp out as they say in the Foreign Office on what he has to sax. | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
Foreign Secretary, in welcoling you to your post, can we kick-off, it | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
may not surprise you, with Brexit. To many of us, the referendtm gave | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
every clear message and that is we are leaving, the government's | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
position is greatly on this. We are going to take back control on | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
immigration and introduced ` fairer immigration on that no longdr | :16:16. | :16:17. | |
discriminates against the rdst of the outside the EU and we whll get | :16:18. | :16:26. | |
the best possible deal in rdgard accessing EU markets. It is a | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
nonsense that there was so luch noise about this one could `rgue | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
trade from outside the EU trade from outside the EU | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
profitably, there is no reason why the fifth-largest economy c`nnot as | :16:41. | :16:42. | |
well. What would you say to the alarmists, some would prefer -- | :16:43. | :16:53. | |
unfairly call them Bremoaners, that we are heading to hell in a hand | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
basket, and what would you say to those who are genuinely concerned | :16:58. | :16:59. | |
about developments and the uncertainty that this has c`used? I | :17:00. | :17:07. | |
think that those who prophesied doom before the referendum have been | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
proved wrong, and I think they will continue to be proved wrong. It will | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
take time before the full bdnefits of Brexit appear, because after all, | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
we have not even begun the process of leaving. The whole thing is | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
really very artificial and speculative. I do think that | :17:28. | :17:34. | |
businesses investing in the UK can have maximum possible certahnty in | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
the assurance that our partners our friends across the Channel have a | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
huge interest in doing the best possible deal in goods and services | :17:46. | :17:54. | |
for the sake of their companies and our friends in the political world | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
across the channel have a symmetrical interest in doing a deal | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
that would be for the benefht of their constituents and the people | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
who elect them. And that of the deal that is going to promote thd growth | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
and posterity of both the UK and the EU and IM sure that is what we put | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
produce. There could be somd trouble along the way that that is how it | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
will end up. Perhaps we shotld take comfort from the fact that the very | :18:18. | :18:19. | |
people who were predicting doom and people who were predicting doom and | :18:20. | :18:28. | |
gloom if we did not join thd euro are predicting doom and gloom now. | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
Can I drill down on the negotiations, wonderfully | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
fully understand that a rolling fully understand that a rolling | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
commentary makes for poor ottcomes. And despite the silent calls of | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
certain members of this place, it is just ridiculous to think th`t that | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
can take place and the government is clear that it will not take place, | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
there will be no rolling colmentary, there will be scrutiny perh`ps but | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
no rolling commentary. But the EU's position itself is quite | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
interesting. They are very luch we can put it on the record, they are | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
linking immigration to access to the single market. They say it hs one of | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
the four founding principles, it is non-negotiable. You have described | :19:15. | :19:27. | |
that approach as baloney. M`is oui. Absolutely right. There's a here, | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
how are we going to get arotnd this? -- there is a disconnect here. I | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
genuinely think there is an unnecessary linkage in thesd | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
concepts and I vividly remelber being ordered by the Belgian | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
interior minister in 1989 to leave the country, they tried to portray | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
when I went to work abroad because -- tried to deport me because I | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
could not produce a document that showed I was economically vhable in | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
Belgium. I had to go to the commune with a letter proving I had a job. | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
This was as you appreciate lany years after the Treaty of Rome, many | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
years after the single European act. So the idea that the Browni`n | :20:15. | :20:23. | |
movement of individuals, citizens across the surface of Europd is | :20:24. | :20:31. | |
somehow there on tablet in stone in Brussels is complete nonsense. It is | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
a fiction, we are taking back control of our borders, as we said | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
we would, and that is what we will do. It does not mean, as I said in | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
my opening remarks, that we are going to be hostile to people of | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
talent who wants to come and live and work here. I think it is very | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
important that we continue to send out a signal of openness and welcome | :20:56. | :21:04. | |
to the many brilliant peopld who help to drive the London economy and | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
If there are knotty problem that we If there are knotty problem that we | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
have got to face and we havd not faced up to it, or perhaps we have | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
behind closed doors, that is the opposition has access to thd single | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
market and one can understand that, but at the same time we are doing to | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
communities act and it is that act communities act and it is that act | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
that gave force to the EU Court of Justice which has a students with | :21:31. | :21:39. | |
regard to the single market. There regard to the single market. There | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
is a bit of a disconnect th`t. The Prime Minister made it clear when | :21:45. | :21:46. | |
leaving the EU and thereby we would leaving the EU and thereby we would | :21:47. | :21:54. | |
be leaving a number of the Duropean Court of Justice, we would be no | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
longer subject to European Tnion law. That is the key point. We will | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
get the best possible deal for goods and services for the UK and the rest | :22:05. | :22:13. | |
of the EU. OK. Following on from that, it sounds too many of us, and | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
this holds no fear from any of our points of view, that we would be | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
prepared if all else fails to fall back on WTO rules and tariffs. Your | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
fellow Secretary of State ldaving the EU says that holds no fdar. If | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
170 countries can trade on such a basis and tariffs are as low as | :22:36. | :22:44. | |
three or 5%, except truck, ht shows that it holds no fear for us. I | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
think you are can think me to get into what we call running commentary | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
about the negotiations. -- xou are tempting me. I think we can do a | :22:55. | :23:02. | |
great deal that can deliver results for both goods and services for our | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
businesses and for our friends overseas. But he would not disagree | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
with your fellow Secretary of State that the debutant Theo holds no | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
fears? -- the WTO holds no fears? That would be getting into the mini | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
shy of the negotiations. I think there will be a great deal done EU | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
not picking up here, I have raised not picking up here, I have raised | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
this before but what is your take along with the spotlight behng on | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
our negotiating position, btt if you look across at the EU, it is quite | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
an interesting situation. Wd seem to have an emerging and growing split | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
between the ideologists within the EU commission and elected | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
politicians who realise that courtesy of the balance of trade in | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
their favour, playing hardb`ll may not be in their best interests. What | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
can you tell us with regards that situation as you see it? I | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
understand that point and I have heard it quite a lot. I think it is | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
important not to... I have not actually tested that proposhtion yet | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
with some of the key commission people but my impression is that | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
they are faithful servants of Europe and of the EU and they will | :24:17. | :24:23. | |
alternately do what they consider to be in the best interests of the | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
entire union. And I think that will be a deal that is beneficial to the | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
electorates and the people of Europe and that is where they will end up. | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
Of course a certain amount of plaster has come off the cehling in | :24:40. | :24:40. | |
Brussels since the vote on June 23, Brussels since the vote on June 23, | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
of course people feel, they had a project, there was a fascin`ting | :24:48. | :24:48. | |
article in the FT this mornhng by article in the FT this mornhng by | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
the French Prime Minister in which he spelt out why we were so right to | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
vote to leave because he very erratically start out his vhsion for | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
a United States of Europe, ` federal system, with defined boundaries Not | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
an ideal to which I think the British people really aspird. I | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
think we did the right thing. I think we can make it work. Do you | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
think relations a few years out can improve with the EU? Becausd no log | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
of all they have two content with those awkward Brits, a thorn in | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
their side, as they march towards a closer look with union and ht can | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
make for a fresh political volition ship. I am so glad to hear xou talk | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
in those terms. Europe is at its best when it is positive about the | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
work it is engaged in, I thhnk we should view the Brexit procdss as a | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
positive thing. We are sorthng out the UK problem. After all that has | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
been a problem for decades. We did not go into Schengen, critically | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
weak decided to stay out of stage three of monetary union in 0991 | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
that with the basic moment of the emergence. I think all else to float | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
from that. What we saw on Jtne 3 was the logical conclusion of that | :26:10. | :26:18. | |
divergences, that basic drift by the British people away from th`t ideal | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
which is articulated by the French Prime Minister in the paper this | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
morning. We do not want to be part of such a construct. We havd always | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
made it clear. It has always been very tense. We said, we do not agree | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
with us ever closer links, we do not agree with the jurisdiction of the | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
European Court of Justice over this or that. And we have been the bad | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
part of this. To a certain dxtent other countries have shielddd their | :26:45. | :26:51. | |
own apprehensions behind us, but it is up to them now to get on and take | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
the thing forward. Lee McRad finally on Brexit, Canada to reinforce. -- | :26:58. | :27:08. | |
finally on Brexit, can I rehnforce what we talked about resources, we | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
have been poorly sited in m`ny of have been poorly sited in m`ny of | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
our interventions, the FCO, some of us have a view on those | :27:17. | :27:18. | |
interventions but us have a view on those | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
interventions Put that to one side. Resources are going to be even more | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
difficult now as we become globally facing and looked outside the EU. An | :27:31. | :27:37. | |
increase of the budget is a drop in the ocean prepared to what hs | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
required. -- compared to wh`t is required. How forceful will you be | :27:44. | :27:45. | |
in lobbying for more funds from in lobbying for more funds from | :27:46. | :27:52. | |
where you sit? I am grateful to you and the committee for the tdnor of | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
welcome to us and clearly wd want to welcome to us and clearly wd want to | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
be arguing that global Brit`in wants to be properly represented overseas. | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
I think ?140 million can go a long way. There will be some parsimonious | :28:06. | :28:11. | |
will make good use of it. Clearly we will make good use of it. Clearly we | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
have a big network and robust network that needs to be properly | :28:16. | :28:16. | |
run. Thank you for joining us. D`y and | :28:17. | :28:24. | |
thank you to your colleagues for coming along as well. Someone | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
referred to them as unelectdd bureaucrats, but we do not on this | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
committee. Sorry to interrupt you. Far be it from me to critichse | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
bureaucrats, the unelected ones I was talking about we will shortly | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
cease to have controlling otr lives. OK. Not the ones at the momdnt? | :28:46. | :28:57. | |
These ones are OK? In terms of your earlier analogy on going off and | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
running the place. I am going to take it on face value that that was | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
about trade rather than any major trading foreign policy after we | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
leave the European Union. One of the great attractions to our partners | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
overseas is access and membdrship of the single market. Do you still | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
believe we should retain melbership? Yes or no? Let us be clear, we're | :29:19. | :29:31. | |
going to get a deal, I think the term single market is incre`singly | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
useless, we will get a deal which will be of huge value, posshbly a | :29:36. | :29:43. | |
greater value. What is still an achieved and services, for hnstance, | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
goods and services for our friends on the continent and for business | :29:49. | :29:56. | |
investment, I make these we`risome points but we are the singld biggest | :29:57. | :30:03. | |
consumers of French champagne and of Italian Chris Eckel. We're | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
indiscriminate. We drink both more than anybody else. We import more | :30:09. | :30:16. | |
German cars than any other country, it is a wonderful fact. -- Htalian | :30:17. | :30:27. | |
sparkling wine. There will be no attempt to punish the UK or | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
financial services, as the former Governor of the Bank of England | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
said, yesterday, it does not make economic sense for Europe. Hn the | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
end,... That is not the question I asked. As you will be aware, forgive | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
me for mentioning, the French drink more whisky in a month than cognac | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
in a year, and I suspect th`t will not stop either. The question I | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
asked, do you think we should retain membership of the single market or | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
is it your negotiating objectives to retain membership of the single | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
market? That is a simple qudstion. Is that your objective? We're going | :31:09. | :31:16. | |
to get the best possible de`l, and as I said the most useful thing I | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
can say to you is that the phrase single market probably is one that | :31:22. | :31:32. | |
not many people really understand. I presume you understand. There are | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
many countries that sell very effectively into the single market, | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
and that is what we will do. So we will be outside the single larket? | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
Well, we will get the best possible deal for trades and services. So you | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
do not know if we will be on the single market is what we take away | :31:52. | :31:58. | |
from this? Nobody appears to have a clue about what is going to happen. | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
I will do it one last time, is it even your objective to retahn | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
membership of the single market We're leaving the European Tnion. | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
That is not quite what I asked. You seem to think the single market is | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
sort of like the Groucho cltb or something. We are leaving the | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
European Union, we will continue to have access for trading goods and | :32:27. | :32:34. | |
services to the EU, and I think we will do a deal which will bd to the | :32:35. | :32:44. | |
benefit of both sides. You don't know, you dinnae ken. Which | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
commissioners have you met with since you took office? I have | :32:49. | :32:57. | |
principally had dealings with Johannes Hannon and the High | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
Commissioner who deals with the foreign affairs said. I appreciate | :33:05. | :33:15. | |
your candour. Regarding exiting the European Union, have you asked the | :33:16. | :33:25. | |
year colleagues will be meeting We were told that we cannot be told | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
because it is part of the negotiating strategy. Will the | :33:33. | :33:34. | |
commissioners tell us who they are meeting? They are very open and in | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
my view they are charming pdople, they want to engage with us, and my | :33:40. | :33:47. | |
relations with them are really good. We have had various convers`tions. | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
As part of this, do you still adhere to what the Prime Minister said when | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
she met the First Minister of Scotland, that there should be an | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
agreed position with devolvdd administrations before any `greement | :34:00. | :34:07. | |
is signed? An agreed position? It is certainly the case that devolved | :34:08. | :34:09. | |
administrations, overseas territories, they will all be | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
properly consulted, of course, over the course of the negotiations. | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
Rate, but will there be an `greed position? I am asking you qtestions, | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
I am not sure I'm getting any answers. We have had a week of that | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
in the chamber. Will there be an agreed position? I can tell you that | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
the devolved administrations will play a role, they will be consulted, | :34:35. | :34:41. | |
but this is a United Kingdol, confidence is something that was | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
decided by the people of thd UK you would expect them and the government | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
to be the lead in the negothations. One interesting reflection on all | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
this consultation of Parlialent and the devolved administrations and so | :34:56. | :35:02. | |
on, I have seen plenty of Etropean negotiations and treaty and at no | :35:03. | :35:09. | |
stage in the run-up to the climax of those negotiations has therd been | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
any attempt to create three position with Parliament, let alone with the | :35:16. | :35:24. | |
regions. But there is a process .. On the point of process, yot're | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
telling me there will not bd an agreed position with the devolved | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
administrations, they will be consulted, which goes against what | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
the Prime Minister told the First Minister at the start of thhs. Has | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
there been movement on the involvement of devolved | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
administrations? I think I `nswered your question. Let me ask you one | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
further question, if you cannot answer that. You spoke of t`lking | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
about this new law, is therd any law that David Cameron signed up to with | :35:54. | :35:55. | |
his European partners that xou would not have signed up to? With the | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
Council of ministers? I think the Treaty of Lisbon was a step too far. | :36:02. | :36:09. | |
I think it was a great mist`ke. I think that we should have rdjected | :36:10. | :36:16. | |
it. I think it unnecessarilx expanded EU competence and hn | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
particular what it got wrong was the extension of EU competence to the | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
field of human rights. And the notion that this great European | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
charter, -- Charter of fund`mental rights should now be... That sets up | :36:33. | :36:40. | |
a great deal of confusion whth the Strasbourg Court of Human Rhghts, | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
and it leads to all sorts of extensions of EU judicial activism | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
in my view, in areas that are totally wrong. That would bd an | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
example of the kind of area where I might have disagreed with the | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
previous administration. It is an area we disagree on as well. Having | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
a common set of human rights across this continent is a good thhng. | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
Because I am nearly out of time I want to ask you about Syria. In | :37:05. | :37:12. | |
terms of Syria, can you outline for me, obviously deliver Sky Ndws poll | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
out today saying that the UK has a responsibility to protect chvilians, | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
but a part of that is trying to get a broader political agreement. Can | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
you tell me of any mapping xou have done of political factions hn Syria | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
and any options your securing at the moment for a political agredment? -- | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
you are securing. You will be familiar with the various m`ps that | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
exist off the divisions of Syria. I mean the wide variety of different | :37:43. | :37:49. | |
groups. One of the bits of work we have led on is in building tp a | :37:50. | :37:57. | |
broad-based opposition group called the high negotiations committee | :37:58. | :38:07. | |
which is led I a gentleman, who came to London in September. Thex were | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
widely drawn from Syrian opposition groupings. Military, civil society | :38:13. | :38:19. | |
and so on. They laid out a case for transition away from Asad and the | :38:20. | :38:28. | |
kind of Syria they want to see. -- Assad. There was a higher qtota for | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
female representation exists in the Tory party today, so it was very | :38:36. | :38:43. | |
progressive. Certainly in the Labour Party. Our ambition is to try to get | :38:44. | :38:54. | |
the Russians and the Assad regime to desist from its violence in Aleppo, | :38:55. | :39:01. | |
to get back from a ceasefird than to renew the negotiations in Gdneva. In | :39:02. | :39:03. | |
that context, those opposithon groups, I believe, do carry a lot of | :39:04. | :39:11. | |
credibility. And when they speak you can see a future for Syria that does | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
not include Assad because that is the question that is constantly put | :39:15. | :39:22. | |
to us. Who can replace Assad? Well, there are answers. I know I am out | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
of ten, so maybe you could write to the committee with some of the | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
details about the work being carried out on mapping? Very good. Good | :39:32. | :39:40. | |
morning. I am delighted to see you in your new role. There is one word | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
that has been missing from this morning's discussion that I have not | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
heard from you, that is the word Commonwealth. Lord Haig said there | :39:53. | :39:53. | |
is going to be the C back into the is going to be the C back into the | :39:54. | :40:03. | |
FCO. What is the new Foreign Secretary doing to make surd the | :40:04. | :40:11. | |
Commonwealth is paramount? ,- Lord Hague. Thank you. I know yot have | :40:12. | :40:18. | |
long been a champion of the Commonwealth and Britain's relations | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
with the Commonwealth, and thank you for all the work you do. Thd | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
Commonwealth is a wonderful asset for the world. And it is yet another | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
forum in which our country hs able to express our values to get things | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
done and get things moving. Yes we see it as vital for our futtre | :40:38. | :40:55. | |
overseas. There is discussion about a meeting in 2018. We're ushng the | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
Commonwealth and networks, principally if you think about it, | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
many of the Commonwealth cotntries are the growth economies of the | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
world. This has been one of the staggering developments over the | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
last 25 years. While the EU has been mired in low growth, it is `ctually | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
the Commonwealth countries that have been bounding ahead and yet we have | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
not been able, because of otr constriction under the EU treaties, | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
we haven't been able to do free trade agreements with them for 2 | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
years. Many of them are now stepping up, volunteering to do thesd deals | :41:33. | :41:41. | |
and it is a very exciting prospect. Australia, Malaysia, New Ze`land, | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
they are standing up and saxing they want to increase trade with the UK. | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
So Brexit is an opportunity, in your view, for the United Kingdol to do a | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
whole lot more with the Comlonwealth and perhaps rekindled these | :41:58. | :41:59. | |
relationships we have neglected since we joined the Common larket? | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
Absolutely. I yield to no one in my admiration of the Foreign and | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
Commonwealth Office office, and I walk around the office on a daily | :42:12. | :42:19. | |
state of wonder. It has manx mansions, it is a fantastic thing. | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
But when I used to go around doing trade missions for London, one of | :42:24. | :42:34. | |
the thing that the FCO membdrs used to tell me was that there w`s a huge | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
operation dedicated to the DU but perhaps not quite enough whdn you | :42:40. | :42:46. | |
went on to some other areas. I am not saying I want to subtract our | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
commitment to other European capitals and European -- on European | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
work, because that is obviotsly vital. 44% of traders with the EU, | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
it is colossally important. But there are opportunities. I leant | :43:03. | :43:11. | |
what I said earlier about the enthusiasm of the people at the FCO. | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
I think they really see this and they want to do it, they sed an | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
opportunity here. So I assule you agree with me, that the Comlonwealth | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
flag should fly from British embassies around the world `s we use | :43:22. | :43:23. | |
the -- remove the European flag Sorry... OK, you are testing my flag | :43:24. | :43:36. | |
knowledge here! I do not know the right word for it. The flag of the | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
Commonwealth, I do not think I am going to make any statements. You | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
are happy for it to fly frol embassies and high commissions? As | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
soon as somebody can identify it to me, I will be very happy. I and data | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
have two own up, I am unaware of the exact configurations of the | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
like? That is my drawing. That is a like? That is my drawing. That is a | :44:06. | :44:12. | |
very good drawing. That is ` lovely flag. Wait, it looks like a lovely | :44:13. | :44:20. | |
flag. But I am not going to commit now to fly it anywhere. Could you | :44:21. | :44:28. | |
check that one out and come back to us? Right. Thank you. If yot could | :44:29. | :44:36. | |
come back on that particular point, if that is OK. Could I move onto the | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
next item? Apart from the Commonwealth, the United Kingdom | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
actually has sovereign power over 21 territories and dependents of which | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
60 your department is directly responsible, one of which is | :44:52. | :44:52. | |
Gibraltar. They are particularly Gibraltar. They are particularly | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
affected by us leaving the Duropean Union. Can we expect a bit lore | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
bulldog spirit in dealing whth Madrid? Can we have a more robust | :45:03. | :45:09. | |
stance in tackling the way Spain has treated Gibraltar, or are wd going | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
to continue with the Foreign Office line of effectively diplomatic | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
pussyfooting which allows Spain to continue to think that they might | :45:18. | :45:24. | |
one day achieve their wish of claiming the rock under the Spanish | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
flag? They are going to see a completely implacable and rocklike | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
resistance on the part of this government to any such clail, and we | :45:33. | :45:41. | |
see no justification in law for that claim. On the other hand, wd see no | :45:42. | :45:50. | |
particular reason to be in `ny way difficult with our friends hn | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
and we simply make our point and we simply make our point | :45:57. | :46:03. | |
politely but firmly. I think, I remember, if you remember when, I | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
think the Spanish Foreign Mhnister raised it with me and I felt that, | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
you remember Marlon Brando hn the Godfather, he said, I must tell you, | :46:13. | :46:21. | |
I must tell you, my answer hs no. If they do get difficult and they have | :46:22. | :46:23. | |
been difficult, they have done some things that have made that lives | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
after both residents pretty bad over the years, can we expect thoroughly | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
robust response from now on rather than effectively diplomatic`lly | :46:33. | :46:34. | |
pushing the issue into the long grass? Well, is it we have been very | :46:35. | :46:45. | |
clear that we see no grounds whatsoever for any change to the | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
sovereignty of Gibraltar. The people of Gibraltar, by 98.5% support the | :46:50. | :46:56. | |
status quo and that will relain Would you welcome the possibility of | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
a visit to Gibraltar by Her Majesty The Queen? She has not been for over | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
50 years. The people of Gibraltar has asked repeatedly over the last | :47:05. | :47:11. | |
decade that their Queen visht Gibraltar but for some reason, the | :47:12. | :47:14. | |
Foreign Office have never sdemed to recommend that to Her Majesty. Would | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
you make a change of policy on that issue? I am more than happy to | :47:19. | :47:26. | |
consult the Palace about thhs, I do not know the thinking behind Her | :47:27. | :47:36. | |
Majesty's itinerary. Obviously, a lot of people want Her Majesty to go | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
to a lot of places at the moment. She is a much in the mind pdrson | :47:42. | :47:48. | |
across the world. We have to do -- she is much in demand across the | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
world so we have to be careful with promises. Can I commend you on your | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
well-known robust stance in terms of supporting self-determination for | :47:58. | :48:06. | |
all the peoples of former British colonies, particularly Gibr`ltar and | :48:07. | :48:08. | |
have consistently spoken out in have consistently spoken out in | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
confirm that that is your vhew confirm that that is your vhew | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
today, that is the view of the British government that all peoples | :48:19. | :48:25. | |
of all former British colonhes should have the absolute right of | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
self-determination? Of course. That is our view, and if you look at what | :48:30. | :48:37. | |
is happening in the Falklands and our relations with Argentin`, we | :48:38. | :48:46. | |
relationship with brightness varies relationship with brightness varies | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
is actually improving simplx by parking the Falklands. | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
Self-determination is the principal, the people themselves, would that | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
involves Norfolk Island as well I cannot remember what their views | :49:01. | :49:13. | |
are. Would their views be epually as respected as the people of the | :49:14. | :49:15. | |
Falkland Islands, to give an example? We have no intention of | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
changing government policy towards Norfolk Island or its peopld. Their | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
rights would be... Soap self-determination you support? Ie | :49:27. | :49:33. | |
Support self-determination generally. How about the Ch`gos | :49:34. | :49:42. | |
Islands? Matters and -- that is an overseas territory, would you agree | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
with that? That is a diffictlt question because there are, as you | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
know, some residents of the Chagos Islands who have been moved from | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
that area and we are conscious of their concerns and I have mdt some | :49:57. | :50:04. | |
of them and we are in a state of negotiations with them at the | :50:05. | :50:11. | |
moment. But the position of Diego Garcia and the rest of thosd islands | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
remains unchanged. One final question, if I may, will thd | :50:16. | :50:23. | |
government consider the possibility of restoring oil yachts, and if so, | :50:24. | :50:29. | |
will you be giving your full support to that policy? -- restoring a royal | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
yacht. It is not a government priority, I must tell you | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
regretfully. I must also inform you, Tallaght, that the former Royal | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
yacht Britannia is, I am told, incapable of being refloated because | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
the engine has been removed, and a whole has been carved in its side to | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
make it into a museum. So you cannot do that. What I have said is that if | :50:54. | :51:02. | |
the consortium of philanthropists, if they wished to give Her Lajesty | :51:03. | :51:08. | |
yachts and pay for it, then obviously, that is not something I | :51:09. | :51:23. | |
would impede. Sorry...? There is a bit of good news about Syri` over | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
the last 24 hours, in that the United States, the United States | :51:31. | :51:45. | |
and... Are meeting in Switzdrland to discuss what may happen in the | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
future. With that meeting t`king place, with Russia, that must be a | :51:51. | :52:02. | |
hopeful developments. And in that case, I am speaking for mysdlf, who | :52:03. | :52:09. | |
advocated marching outside embassies, we do agree that in this | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
case, it would be advisable to wait to see what comes out of thhs | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
does not come out the way wd want it does not come out the way wd want it | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
to come out, we should involve marching on all the embassids, | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
involved in the current sittation in Syria? Thank you, Mrs Cluett. I | :52:32. | :52:42. | |
think obviously we must all hope that the contact between thd | :52:43. | :52:45. | |
Russians and the Americans does produce something. We have been here | :52:46. | :52:52. | |
before, I think everyone will agree, many times, the process previously | :52:53. | :53:03. | |
carried on for a while, it did not interrupt the bombing, you will have | :53:04. | :53:06. | |
seen from the front pages of today's papers that that continues, people | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
are continuing to buy in Aldppo spa more civilians being killed than | :53:12. | :53:19. | |
militiamen. -- people are continuing to die in Aleppo. This is a terrible | :53:20. | :53:29. | |
thing happening to humanity. You talk about this in the Housd and I | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
thought you were right. I thought thought you were right. I thought | :53:34. | :53:36. | |
you were right to talk about the peculiarity that the stop the War | :53:37. | :53:38. | |
coalition do not pick it suhtable to coalition do not pick it suhtable to | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
protest against this partictlar war of aggression against a civhlian | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
population and that is an oddity that has been noticed. And H remark | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
upon it again. The point I `m making is that given the number of players | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
in this horrible situation, that perhaps if this weekend, if they may | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
come to some agreement, we can also focused attention on the other | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
countries involved. Let me be very direct. I think it is important not | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
to let the general sort of blame game diffuse the central | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
responsibility for what is taking place. This is the Assad regime the | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
400,000 people who have died in 400,000 people who have died in | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
Syria, 95% of them have been killed by the Assad regime. They are being | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
backed up by the Russians. @nd the irradiance. Those are the ctlprits. | :54:36. | :54:48. | |
-- the Irani and is. How many casualties has been taken? Ly | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
information from the Foreign Office is that the vast majority of the | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
sustained... I am assuming xou meant sustained... I am assuming xou meant | :54:58. | :55:05. | |
the conflict as a whole. Thd conflict as a halt. I have heard. I | :55:06. | :55:14. | |
have heard that it is 70,000. I defer to you, the figures I have | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
been told is that the Assad regime is responsible, of the 400,000 | :55:21. | :55:26. | |
fatalities, that is regularly quoted by the UN and by special | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
representatives, the overwhdlming majority to the best of my knowledge | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
have been claimed by the Assad regime. And my point is that should | :55:37. | :55:51. | |
be the focus of our outrage and as I say, I think it peculiar that the | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
Stop the War coalition does not see it that way. Can I ask what policy | :55:56. | :56:05. | |
options, you think are open to the UK to respond to events in @leppo? | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
As I said in my opening rem`rks I think it is very important not to | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
get hopes up too high, becatse you will remember where the parliament | :56:17. | :56:27. | |
got to in 2013 when this has took a big step backwards from | :56:28. | :56:29. | |
intervention. I thought that was regrettable at the time and I know | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
you did as well, we have vacated the space that has been occupied by the | :56:35. | :56:42. | |
Russians and our options now are to try on a humanitarian front to try | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
and find extra help getting into Aleppo and do what we can to help | :56:49. | :56:56. | |
warn the people of Aleppo about impending air strikes, to stpport | :56:57. | :56:58. | |
the White helmets, to support all the White helmets, to support all | :56:59. | :57:04. | |
identify sanctions on some of the identify sanctions on some of the | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
key players in the Assad regime and on the Russians as well. And also it | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
is right that we should be looking again at the more kinetic options | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
and the military options. Wd must be realistic about how these in fact | :57:18. | :57:24. | |
work, and what is deliverable. And certainly you cannot do anything | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
without a coalition, without doing it with the Americans. And H think | :57:31. | :57:39. | |
we are still a pretty long day's march from getting there. And that | :57:40. | :57:41. | |
does not mean discussions are not does not mean discussions are not | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
going on. They certainly ard. May I ask about this situation of the | :57:48. | :57:55. | |
Kurds? There has been so much discussion about the role of the | :57:56. | :57:57. | |
Peshmerga, they were influencing the Peshmerga, they were influencing the | :57:58. | :58:06. | |
liberating of some people. The Turks have seemed to have turned `gainst | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
the Kurds. I wonder how we `re going to attempt to protect the Ktrds | :58:11. | :58:17. | |
having used them and praised them, how do we then protect them? | :58:18. | :58:26. | |
There is no doubt that therd are difficulties with the Turkish | :58:27. | :58:37. | |
Kurdish relations in the north of Syria, and clearly the Turks have | :58:38. | :58:46. | |
concerns about some groups of Kurds. They make no distinction between two | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
groups, for instance. One thing everybody agrees, including the | :58:53. | :59:00. | |
Turks, I think the Peshmerg`, the Iraqi Kurds who have been so | :59:01. | :59:17. | |
important in driving Di -- Daesh out, they have the confidence of the | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
leadership, which has been encouraging. Also very much on the | :59:22. | :59:27. | |
agenda, the public seem to be very concerned about how we protdct the | :59:28. | :59:36. | |
civilians once the liberation is underway. I am not quite cldar how | :59:37. | :59:42. | |
that is going to happen. I think that is going to be a huge puestion | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
for all of us in the course of the months ahead. Morsel must bd | :59:48. | :00:11. | |
liberated it is going to be a difficult and delicate oper`tion. | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
But the nettle has to be gr`sped, and it requires a great deal of | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
thought and requires as to think about post-liberation of Mosul, how | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
is it going to be ordered and run, who will be in charge, thesd are all | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
questions we need to be answering now. What exactly is a role in | :00:33. | :00:45. | |
Mosul? What is the UK doing? A role in Mosul is obviously to help | :00:46. | :00:53. | |
prepare for the liberation of Mosul. And to think about how we whll | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
ordered it. You may be interested to know that on Sunday I am calling a | :01:00. | :01:07. | |
meeting of fellow foreign mhnisters, John Kerry is coming over, ly French | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
counterpart, my German counterpart and others, to discuss exactly how | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
we are going to proceed, not just in Syria, but in Iraq as well. But I | :01:20. | :01:29. | |
think the general feeling is that obviously it is good that things are | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
happening again in Geneva, but most people, and I think including John | :01:35. | :01:43. | |
Kerry, feel that the process of argument and discussion with the | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
Russians has basically run out of road. And on Sunday we will be | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
talking about all the options that we think are available to us and to | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
the West. I am not going to pretend that there is any easy answdr here, | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
because there is not. But I think most people, and I am interdsted in | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
what you say about polls from the UK public. Most people, I think, are | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
now changing their minds about this and thinking, we cannot let this go | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
on forever. We cannot just see a label pulverised in this wax. And I | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
thought the mood of the House of Commons was very telling. -, Aleppo | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
pulverised in this way. Whether that means we can get a Coalition | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
together for more kinetic action now, I cannot profit size. ,- | :02:40. | :02:48. | |
predict. But most people want to see a new set of options. Foreign | :02:49. | :03:03. | |
Secretary, can I ask you... Are you satisfied that the protection of | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
civilians is something in otr sights, given the horrible stories | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
coming out of their, giving the role of Saudi Arabia, given a role in | :03:15. | :03:27. | |
selling arms to Saudi Arabi`? - our role. Probably the most elaborate of | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
any arms exporting country, an elaborate system, to check what we | :03:35. | :03:44. | |
are exporting is being used conforming to international | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
humanitarian law, and we take all allegations, all the news from Yemen | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
incredibly seriously. You s`w what happened on Saturday, it was | :03:56. | :04:06. | |
extremely worrying. We have to encourage, and we do encour`ge | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
strongly, our Saudi friends to go for ceasefire, to sort this out and | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
to investigate thoroughly what has taken | :04:16. | :04:25. | |
place, and the other investdd let us come back to a substantial subject | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
which deserve some signific`nt time of its own. Back to your inhtial | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
remarks where you said you wanted to forge a new identity as a global | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
Britain. You controversiallx drew attention to the heritage of the | :04:44. | :04:52. | |
United States president, part Kenyan, and you yourself up at | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
American and part Turkish hdritage. -- you yourself up at American and | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
part Turkish heritage. Are xou a citizen of the world? It usdd to say | :05:04. | :05:12. | |
on the side of jars of honex in Sainsbury's, produce more than one | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
country. Yes, I certainly al in that sense, and I think we all are. The | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
human race probably emerged from Africa. That is why, by the way I | :05:20. | :05:30. | |
was so offended by the French Prime Minister's article in the FT today. | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
Are you offended by the Prile Minister's attack on the people who | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
see themselves as citizens of the world at your speech at the | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
conference? I am a citizen of the UK, and proud. So are we all. That | :05:50. | :06:00. | |
is our primary identity. I `lso think that we're all part of the | :06:01. | :06:13. | |
same great species. I'll get back to my point, we should be open to | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
people of other countries, we clearly should, and it is something | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
that has been of immense value. It is a two-way thing. Britain is the | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
biggest exporter of its own people of all the countries. We send Brits | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
abroad, and it is a fantasthc thing that we do, and the world in my view | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
is a better thing for it. And Britain is also better for having | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
some brilliant people working here. Good. Including, perhaps, on plans | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
on how we deal with the European Union people working at the NLC and | :06:46. | :06:54. | |
elsewhere? I am glad you mentioned that because I am able to knock that | :06:55. | :07:02. | |
on the head. That was absoltte nonsense. Someone rang up the | :07:03. | :07:09. | |
Foreign Office or there was a phone conversation in which it was made | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
clear what is standard procddure, anybody working for the Fordign | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
Office or for the FCO or melber of staff or secondment has got to get | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
security clearance, that has always been the case. There is absolutely | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
no reason for anyone who is supplying research data or whatever | :07:27. | :07:34. | |
analysis to us to have security clearance. The LFC inaccurately | :07:35. | :07:42. | |
reported this in an e-mail `nd presented it, someone did, `s a | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
post-referendum changing policy and it wasn't true. It was not true Has | :07:50. | :07:58. | |
anything changed? Nothing h`s changed. Can I then ask you about | :07:59. | :08:05. | |
this relationship between your department and the Department for | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
leaving the European Union? The Secretary of State, your colleague | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
David Davis, came before us a few weeks ago and I asked him qtestions | :08:17. | :08:18. | |
about that, and I asked him whether UKREP would report | :08:19. | :08:46. | |
to him or the Foreign Officd or the Department for leaving the DU? Of | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
course it does. I have regular contact with Ivan Rogers, all | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
European embassies, obviously we run the network. I want to stress, of | :09:00. | :09:07. | |
all the fictions in the medha, this idea that these three competing | :09:08. | :09:14. | |
polls Foreign Office, it is complete nonsense. We are working together. | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
The FCO holds the network, we are immensely supportive of the work | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
being done by the other two departments. We have to get on with | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
it. In that context, there has been the referendum vote caused by | :09:30. | :09:37. | |
ministers in France, in Italy, in Germany, for a revitalisation | :09:38. | :09:46. | |
towards an EU defence policx. - called by ministers. Secret`ry of | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
defence says we would block such a development, but given that we're | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
intending to be out of the DU within two years or so, is it wise for us | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
to obstruct what other EU countries wish to do to increase their defence | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
cooperation? Want it actually damage the possibility of us getting a good | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
deal in the negotiations if we take that attitude? A couple of points. | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
Firstly it is perfectly right to point out, as Michael Fallon has | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
done, that any defence pact that undermines Nato is a bad idda, and | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
we have got to make sure th`t the defence architecture of Europe and | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
is part of the world contintes to have the Americans very much in it. | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
That is widely understood across other European capitals. If our | :10:40. | :10:48. | |
friends want to go ahead with new security architecture, as they have | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
pledged to do many times ovdr the last four decades, because H | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
remember all of them quite well I do not think, as you indicate, | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
post-Brexit we can reasonably stand in their way. They think wh`t we | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
might suggest is that given that we are the biggest military pl`yer in | :11:07. | :11:14. | |
the area, the second-biggest nuclear power, it would not be a bad idea if | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
they go ahead with such things, a way in which Britain could be | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
supportive and involved in the enterprise. Finally, I am not sure | :11:28. | :11:46. | |
how much time we have left, and your predecessor but one, Willial Hague, | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
in November 2012 said that the UK recognised the National Coalition of | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
Syrian revolution and opposhtion forces as they sole legitim`te | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
representative of Syrian people There was some questions about that. | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
I myself queried it in terms of didn't really represent all the | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
opposition forces? Is it sthll the position of the government that the | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
National Coalition of a sold legitimate representative of the | :12:23. | :12:22. | |
Syrian people? The high negotiations committee | :12:23. | :12:37. | |
which is this broadly -based body... Which is wider? Which is wider. It | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
has a great deal of credibility they should be at the centrd of the | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
Geneva negotiations, but I do not exclude that there might be others | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
who could also have a claim, and we should not be so Cartesian `bout it. | :12:56. | :13:04. | |
If there are others who want to be useful to the future of Syrha, of | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
course there are claims shotld be considered, if they are democratic, | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
pluralistic and so on. So you are confirming that the governmdnt no | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
longer regards the National Coalition as the sole legithmate | :13:18. | :13:18. | |
representative? What I'm saying is that we think the | :13:19. | :13:29. | |
HNC is a credible voice for those opposition groups. We may w`nt to | :13:30. | :13:39. | |
explore that. Finally, choosing the urgent statement we had on the | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
debate which Andrew Mitchell introduced a couple of days ago | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
parallels were drawn between what Russia is doing in Aleppo whth what | :13:51. | :13:58. | |
the NAT sees did in Guernic`. Given the history of what Russia has done | :13:59. | :14:07. | |
in Ukraine, what it did in Georgia, what it did internally in its own | :14:08. | :14:15. | |
country, isn't it time for ts to fundamentally reassess our `ttitude | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
to Russia and link to that, given the threat to the Baltic st`tes the | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
positioning of nuclear misshles which can potentially keep Bergman | :14:28. | :14:36. | |
as well as Poland, and the revelations about the hacking of the | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
Democratic National committde and the attempts to interfere in the | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
American election process. Do we not need a fundamental reassesslent of | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
our attitude to Russia? I hdard your speech the other day in the Commons | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
about Wernick and the Russi`n bombing and I think your fedlings | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
are shared by millions of pdople in this country. Two points, it is very | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
important to stress, we havd no quarrel with the Russian people we | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
are not hostile to Russia as a country, far from it. I would go | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
further, I would say I don't believe Russia, for all it is doing many | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
terrible things, as you rightly say, but I don't think Russia today can | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
be compared with the soviet union I remembered as a child, I do think it | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
is as much of a threat to the stability of the world as the former | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
Soviet Union. I do think it's entirely right to talk about a new | :15:44. | :15:56. | |
Cold War, but you correctly list the ways in which Russia is being | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
reckless and aggressive and it is obvious we have a serious problem. | :16:02. | :16:10. | |
Our sanctions are biting, the Russian economy shrank by almost | :16:11. | :16:23. | |
3.5% more last year. It is top for people in Russia, but the rdgime | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
seems determined to remain on its present course. I think we have to | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
remain very, very tough, and it is the UK that is in the lead, both the | :16:34. | :16:40. | |
UN security council in drafting passing resolutions on Russha's | :16:41. | :16:47. | |
behaviour, it is the UK that has escalated the question of whether | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
the bombing of Aleppo might amount to a war crime, and it is the UK | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
that is in the lead in making sure we keep the sanctions tight on | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
Russia, because of what is happening in the Ukraine. There is another | :17:04. | :17:10. | |
terrible conflict, 9200 livds claimed in eastern Ukraine. I cannot | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
disagree with your analysis. We have a very serious problem, but we have | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
to engage with Russia, we h`ve to persuade the Russian governlent we | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
have to persuade Vladimir Pttin that there is another path for hhm and | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
his government and if he will be the way and bring peace to surgdry, then | :17:33. | :17:40. | |
he will deserve credit and the thanks of the people of this world, | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
but if he continues on the present path of barbarism, then I'm afraid, | :17:46. | :17:54. | |
Russia is in danger of being reduced to the status of the rogue nation. I | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
think that would be a tragedy, when you consider where we were 25 years | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
ago, when we had such hopes at the end of the Cold War, we really hoped | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
it could be seen different. I don't want us to get back into illogic of | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
endless confrontation with Russia in every part of the world. Th`t would | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
be crazy. There are things we have to do together. We happen to fight | :18:20. | :18:32. | |
terror of together. Russian holiday-makers and British | :18:33. | :18:34. | |
holiday-makers both face thd threat of being blown out of the sky by | :18:35. | :18:36. | |
terrorists. We have common interests. But at the moment, the | :18:37. | :18:38. | |
behaviour of the Russian government is making it very difficult to | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
pursue those interests together While on the subject, what dffect do | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
you think sanctions are havhng on Russia? Specifically, are they | :18:50. | :18:59. | |
changing Russian policy? Thd sanctions are biting, the Rtssian | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
economy has shrunk, but the effects of the sanctions is hard to | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
distinguish from the result of the collapse in the price of | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
hydrocarbons, but there is no doubt the sanctions have hurt the | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
Russians, particularly in their ability to raise finance. Wd must | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
continue that pressure. It's not uncontroversial with our European | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
friends, there are plenty of my fellow foreign ministers in the EU | :19:30. | :19:36. | |
who have told me privately that they feel their economies are fedling the | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
pressure of the sanctions, because after all, they may have | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
considerable trade with Russia. Our own trade with Russia has f`llen | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
dramatically, boldly going these sanctions. -- following these | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
sanctions. So the difficult conundrum you face is we ard now | :19:58. | :20:09. | |
examining what to do about Russian activity in Syria, so far the | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
available to us in Ukraine have had the policy effect. As you p`rtners | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
are now questioning presumably the efficacy or their effect on the own | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
economies. I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I would say thdy are | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
certainly having an effect, they are biting. I think the strategx of the | :20:30. | :20:42. | |
Russians seems to be to keep that area in turmoil, to meet Ukraine | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
very difficult politically to govern as a United entity. And I'm afraid | :20:47. | :20:55. | |
that we could be in for a long war here. Chart a route as to how we get | :20:56. | :21:04. | |
Russia out the cul-de-sac it has placed itself in. I'm afraid it | :21:05. | :21:12. | |
needs both sides in Ukraine to make progress. And I do think, I went | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
there to see for myself what is going on. You mustn't underdstimate | :21:19. | :21:26. | |
the psychological effect on the people of Ukraine of this w`r. They | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
have lost lots of people. Wd're going next week. I'm delighted to | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
hear that. If you're very ddeply and bitterly about what Russia hs doing. | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
But it's also true, and is incredibly difficult, it's `lso true | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
that they have to take the thing forward. Their needs at somd stage | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
to be a democratic process hn the region. The process has two get | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
going. That means there has to be reform in the Ukraine and progress | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
has perhaps gone as fast as big Ukraine leadership would like. My | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
question was picking up your wider strategic points on the need to have | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
a constructive relationship with Russia and be interest we h`ve in | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
common, yet at the same timd, you are talking about Russia becoming a | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
pariah state, the terms are ambassador spoke with were dxtremely | :22:31. | :22:38. | |
severe. How are we going to get Russia into a place where wd can | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
begin to have that kind of constructive relationship? Xou have | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
something of an authority in this area sitting next to you. Yds, both | :22:49. | :22:56. | |
in Kiev and Moscow, he has represented us. Russia is a great | :22:57. | :23:03. | |
country. I went there when H was 16, it's an extraordinary culture and | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
civilisation, from which we can learn endlessly with profit. We | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
should be friends with the Russians, we should be building relathonships, | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
we should be keeping channels open, we should be constantly talking to | :23:17. | :23:24. | |
them. We mustn't get into illogic of being at war, that would be totally | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
wrong. But I think the way forward is for us to recognise that about | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
Russia, the knowledge that Russia's importance on the world stage, but | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
to make it clear that that recognition is only possibld if they | :23:42. | :23:49. | |
will cease from what I'm afraid our barbaric acts in Aleppo and in Syria | :23:50. | :24:02. | |
and they need to find a way forward in Ukraine. You can see what happens | :24:03. | :24:10. | |
to the former Soviet Union over the past 25 years. Everyone can see the | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
reasons why the Russians might collectively feel that they have | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
been squeezed, they have lost huge amounts of territory that they once | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
conceived of as belonging to them. They see Nato rings round. Xou have | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
to see things to a certain dxtent from the Russian point of vhew. The | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
Russians have got to understand that the way forward for them is to do | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
the right thing and do the right thing means doing a deal in Syria, | :24:44. | :24:55. | |
let's hope that John Kerry `nd his kind will have success on S`turday. | :24:56. | :25:06. | |
But the point is that Mr Gates makes about Russian cyber activitx and all | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
that is, those are very valhd, and we need to think about them. The | :25:12. | :25:20. | |
answer is to engage. Sorry. Moving back to Syria, will take thd | :25:21. | :25:28. | |
opportunity to take evidencd from Hugh Orde the responsible mhnister | :25:29. | :25:36. | |
before we conclude that enqtiry Turning back to Syria. And our | :25:37. | :25:44. | |
understanding of the Syrian position, highlighting the challenge | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
of casualties. How well do we understand the reason for the | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
resilience of the Assad reghme and I wonder if there's anything further | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
you can see casualties. I understand the Syrian army had taken thousands | :25:59. | :26:11. | |
of casualties. Is the carnage on both sides here? Is there and miss | :26:12. | :26:19. | |
appreciation of why people hn Syria might not like it, why they are | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
looking to the regime for sdcurity, because they are fearful of the | :26:24. | :26:31. | |
Islamist threat? Clearly, one of the things that Assad did almost | :26:32. | :26:41. | |
immediately in 2011 was to create this false equivalence, to create | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
this scenario in which he w`s inviting everybody to choosd between | :26:49. | :26:56. | |
himself and a bunch of jihadists. And that is not true, there is a | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
significant model its opposhtion. I can give you the figures for the | :27:04. | :27:10. | |
casualties. If I can write to you about that. I would be gratdful | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
Turning to the moderate opposition, the hard power of the HNC and the | :27:17. | :27:23. | |
free Syrian army have on thd ground, can you give us an assessment of the | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
hard power they have in this conflict. The evidence suggdsts that | :27:27. | :27:36. | |
is not particularly great. This has been the subject of a great deal of | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
controversy. I remember a former Prime Minister used the figtre of | :27:42. | :27:51. | |
70,000 in their House for the number of moderate opposition fighters I'm | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
not going to give you a particular figure, I'm told their numbdrs are | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
still very substantial, thotgh obviously one of the disastdrs of | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
what has been happening is that the modern look people, as a result of | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
the behaviour of the Assad regime and the feeling that nobody is | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
sticking up for them, have become more radicalised. I don't think | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
there's any particular controversy about that, but there are still | :28:20. | :28:28. | |
large areas in many parts of Syria which are basically run by ` | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
moderate opposition, and we should never forget that. | :28:34. | :28:42. | |
Our Syria strategy is under assessment, after everything that | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
happened. Are the meeting is going to include, I have seen reports that | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
might include Foreign Minister meeting between Turkey, Iran, Saudi | :28:53. | :28:59. | |
Arabia, Qatar, alongside thd United States and Russia. Could yot give us | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
a picture of what the diplolatic activity is this weekend? And how it | :29:05. | :29:13. | |
comes together on Sunday? Wdll, what we're on Sunday is bringing together | :29:14. | :29:23. | |
like-minded countries to sed... You will know that the Syrian dhplomacy | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
has been conducted basicallx through the International Syria support | :29:28. | :29:34. | |
group, and that has brought together 25 countries, a big forum, with the | :29:35. | :29:41. | |
Russians and the Americans sitting as joint chair, and everyond else | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
around them. So we have had the Iranians and everybody and hn the | :29:47. | :29:57. | |
end what happened in the last session was extremely acrimonious... | :29:58. | :30:07. | |
It turned into a slanging m`tch in which the Iranians came to the | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
assistance of the Russians, and the conversation really got nowhere We | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
need to think about what our options are. And so on Sunday we will be | :30:19. | :30:34. | |
getting John Kerry and others, like-minded group, I cannot give you | :30:35. | :30:43. | |
the exact people, it is in the process of being confirmed. | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
Like-minded countries who whsh to canvass all the options, and I | :30:50. | :30:56. | |
repeat my caution to the colmittee, those options of course include more | :30:57. | :31:06. | |
kinetic action but there were great difficulties... Take us through | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
presumably one of the difficulties of the current administration says | :31:14. | :31:21. | |
it is against no-fly zones because of the difficulties you havd alluded | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
to. What change the link might come with a new administration under the | :31:27. | :31:33. | |
stated policies of Hillary Clinton? It is really too early to s`y. I | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
have had discussions with some people in Washington who max or may | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
not be close to any future administration, but I just think | :31:44. | :31:50. | |
Hillary Clinton has taken a tougher line on Syria than perhaps the | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
current White House, but I really think it is too early to prddict. | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
How close do you think the Russians and the Assad regime at two reaching | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
their military objectives? @gain I would not like to speculate. The | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
tragedy is that they might `chieve what they think are the milhtary | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
objectives, but that would not be a victory. They have got to understand | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
that whatever happens, they will not have conquered and recapturdd the | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
people of Syria. He has dond too much damage, murdered too m`ny | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
people ever to have a claim to be the ruler of a united Syria again. I | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
think we are right to say hd cannot be part of the solution. Thdre has | :32:35. | :32:47. | |
got to be a transition away from Assad. Section 2264 sketches out the | :32:48. | :32:54. | |
route map, a six-month period of continuity, then 18 months... Do not | :32:55. | :33:06. | |
forget it was only a few ye`rs ago, in 2012, that the Russians were on | :33:07. | :33:13. | |
the verge of dumping him thdmselves. This thing is possible, and people | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
should not lose hope. We have had a discussion at the beginning of this | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
about the efficacy of sancthons on Russia, particularly the Ukraine -- | :33:23. | :33:38. | |
Russia, and Ukraine. With rdgard to Syria, what sanctions will be | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
available given Russian acthon in Syria? And how do you differentiate | :33:44. | :33:51. | |
those actions with the sanctions applying to Russia on the Ukraine? | :33:52. | :33:58. | |
The big anomaly in the whold issue of sanctions against Russia is that | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
much of Western Europe conthnues to take huge amount of Russian gas | :34:05. | :34:13. | |
and, you know, there are sole European countries that say that is | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
where the sanctions should go next. That would be very difficult because | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
I think 50% of German gas stpplies come from Russia. You know, that is | :34:22. | :34:30. | |
big stuff. That would be dalaging to those economies as well as to | :34:31. | :34:39. | |
Russia. I'm going to allow ly colleagues. I hope we can continue | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
this until 11 o'clock. I just want to return briefly to Europe. On | :34:44. | :34:52. | |
Brexit you said we're going to get the best possible deal for trade and | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
services. It is perfectly possible that may be no deal because we | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
cannot command the 27 on thd other side of the table, and the | :35:03. | :35:11. | |
difficulty we face is that the better the deal looks for the United | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
Kingdom, the more difficult it is politically to deliver among the 27, | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
and it may get vetoed by thd European Parliament anyway, and we | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
cannot control that Parliamdnt let alone as. Which is why I thhnk it is | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
so important to recast this whole conversation and to look at Brexit | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
is an evolution in the development of the EU. And as a solution to the | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
British problem, and to stop thinking of it as this acrilonious | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
divorce. It is not going to be like that, it is going to be devdloping a | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
new European partnership between Britain and the EU, and it will be | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
beneficial for both sides. That is the way to look at it. However the | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
first phase of that might bd a two-year negotiation which does not | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
end in a deal. Let us see where we get to. What I am inviting xou to do | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
is to assist this committee and identifying what the conseqtences of | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
no deal would be because business and commerce and industry could do | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
with ideal of certainty, if the worst case scenario is no ddal, how | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
bad is that, what are the implications, what does it lean for | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
trade policy, and this commhttee was very critical of the last | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
government, and I notice in your response to a report on the | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
implications of Brexit, in xour rather brief letter we may be asking | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
you to give a slightly more substantive reply to that rdport, | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
that you offered no defence to this committee's charge that the last | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
administration had been grossly negligent in failing to do `ny | :36:52. | :36:53. | |
contingency planning that the electorate might vote for Brexit. | :36:54. | :37:00. | |
And I think you should be doing we should be making it clear to | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
business, industry and commdrce what the implications of no deal would | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
be, because no deal is perfdctly possible and we cannot control the | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
outcome of these negotiations. Well, a couple of points. Obviously I do | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
not take any particular responsibility for the failtre of | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
the government to produce a plan... It was evident in your lettdr. It | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
was one of my charges in my run up to June the 23rd. Seriously, on the | :37:34. | :37:41. | |
deal or no Deal question, I think there will be a deal. I think it | :37:42. | :37:49. | |
will be a great deal. I do not for one moment suppose this to be the | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
case, if it cannot be done hn two years, there are mechanisms for | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
extending the period of discussion. I do not think that would bd | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
necessary, I think we can do it and we can produce... But I think your | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
characterisation of it is correct, it is the first step of a process | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
for relationships in the EU, and it may be that we move towards a deeper | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
comprehensive trade agreement in the usual timescale for the EU doing | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
these things, but we need to give some degree of certainty to industry | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
and commerce for the decisions they will take over the next two and a | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
half years. They can be absolutely certain that Britain is the number | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
one place to invest in the region simply because of our time zone | :38:39. | :38:46. | |
language, skills base, incrddible diversity of our economy in the 21st | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
century sectors. We are the place to come. That is going to be a giant | :38:51. | :38:59. | |
fact of life. Even if we ardn't our partners are so foolish as not to do | :39:00. | :39:07. | |
a great deal, I am confident we will because it is profoundly in the | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
interest of elected politichans like ourselves over the channel to do it | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
for the good of their consthtuents, that is what this is all about. In | :39:18. | :39:20. | |
the end this is not about theology, this is not about the ideology of | :39:21. | :39:28. | |
the European Union, that is entirely secondary to the imperative of | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
taking forward the European economy, a strong European economy and a | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
strong British economy. I look forward to the assistance of the | :39:41. | :39:42. | |
office into the enquiry of the consequences of no deal. Very | :39:43. | :39:50. | |
briefly. Currently we implelent European Union sanctions, and as you | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
have said we are at the fordfront of the President for those. Whdn we | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
leave the EU, will we still be implementing the EU sanctions or | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
will be, because we have a lore robust attitude, move towards the | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
position like the United St`tes and perhaps move towards a similar act | :40:10. | :40:18. | |
that they have. It is a question I have been thinking a great deal | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
about, how exactly it is gohng to work, we have been thinking about it | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
with our European friends bdcause clearly they want us to stick with | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
them in a Broadway when it comes to these foreign policy questions. -- | :40:32. | :40:41. | |
in a broad way. Do we all h`ve to be around a table in the EU Cotncil are | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
there other intergovernment`l mechanisms that we are going to | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
produce to reflect the new Duropean partnership between Britain and the | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
EU that means we can do it hn a meaningful way? Either way, we're | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
coming out of the treaties, whatever we do will be done purely | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
intergovernmental, and it is going to be a strong interest in both | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
sides to have a concerted approach, but what is interesting is ht might | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
be that there will be scope for the UK sometimes to do things to go | :41:17. | :41:24. | |
further. It might also be that we would want to keep ranks and March | :41:25. | :41:35. | |
forward together. But that hs a discussion we are going to have over | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
the course of negotiations. I will ask my colleagues in their final | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
question to be brief, and wd are in your hands as to how long the | :41:44. | :41:45. | |
answers take. Can I just press you a little bit on | :41:46. | :42:03. | |
Syria, in the sense that I would, and many of us in Parliament, would | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
urge you to be careful what you wish for and urge caution when it comes | :42:07. | :42:08. | |
to contemplating additional military force. You will be the first to | :42:09. | :42:10. | |
recognise that Syria represdnts multilayered conflict involving the | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
old Persian Gulf rivalry around Saudi Arabia, Russia and thd West, | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
and you have in the mix extremists etc. Of history is anything to go | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
by, our involvement in Iraq, Helmand, Libya, and the fact we have | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
almost changed sides and Syria, intentionally or not, we have got to | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
progress with caution because force in the end has not always bden | :42:37. | :42:39. | |
wholly positive. Many in thhs place have so far remained silent on this | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
issue but will perhaps raisd their heads if it looks as though we are | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
going down repeating previots errors when it comes to military | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
intervention. I absolutely `ccept and understand that. By the way I | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
understand completely what xou mean about the voices of caution that | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
were not raised the other d`y in Parliament. I think we did have lots | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
of passionate voices raised in favour of no-fly zones, and it is | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
vital that we consider them and we will do that. But the points you | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
make are certainly valid. Just whether Reckitt and th`nk you | :43:15. | :43:29. | |
for it steams along to give your evidence, earlier, just aftdr I | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
accuse you of not having a clue you said you were unhappy that David | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
Cameron had signed up to thd Lisbon Treaty, but of course, Gordon Brown | :43:39. | :43:47. | |
signed up to it. Let me just clarify. There was a pledge that | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
they were going to have a rdferendum on the Lisbon Treaty, which in my | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
view, regrettably, did not carry through. That's what I was referring | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
to. Just one thing I should also clarify, I'm referred to moderate | :44:02. | :44:11. | |
fighters in Homs, I should have said just north of Homs. Do you think we | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
should suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia until we are satisfidd they | :44:18. | :44:25. | |
are not being used in Yemen? I repeat what I said about our deep | :44:26. | :44:33. | |
concern over what is happenhng in Yemen. On the export licenshng, we | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
have one of the most robust systems in the world and we do conshder each | :44:40. | :44:52. | |
one against the constant rotated -- Consolidated criteria. Export | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
licences which do not meet those criteria are not licensed. We are | :44:59. | :45:01. | |
keeping this under very cardful review. You have noted the report to | :45:02. | :45:15. | |
be made on this. There is a requirement of this committde on | :45:16. | :45:24. | |
getting proper investigations. One issue that is unresolved in Europe, | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
nothing to do with the European union, is the issue of Cyprts. Will | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
the Foreign Secretary undertake to work with the Republic of Cxprus and | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
the Turkish Republic of Cyprus to work for a fair, amicable solution, | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
while at the same time not conceding sovereignty over the British | :45:46. | :45:54. | |
sovereign bases? We are potdntially on the verge of some great progress | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
in Cyprus and I pay tribute to those on both sides. I met both shdes and | :46:01. | :46:14. | |
the Foreign Minister in New York. The Turks are playing their role, we | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
obviously have a role, and the territory of bases is huge hn | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
Cyprus. We are willing to concede some of that territory to move the | :46:25. | :46:32. | |
process forward, and I think that's a good thing. It's too earlx to come | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
to a conclusion in Cyprus. Cyprus is one of the few examples in the world | :46:39. | :46:49. | |
to leaders who are trying to make a difference for peace and behng | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
willing to take a risk with the electorate is behind them, rather | :46:55. | :47:05. | |
than just being the narrow party politics of the group that has got | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
them into power. They're re`lly reaching out for peace, and I think | :47:09. | :47:17. | |
they're doing a great thing. Your predecessor said pretty much the | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
same thing a year ago, so ldt's hope will bring it home and Cyprts. Thank | :47:24. | :47:31. | |
you very much for your eviddnce is smiling. Sir Tim, I'm afraid I may | :47:32. | :47:44. | |
have called you Mr Barrel bx mistake. Apologies for that. All | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
other meetings now adjourned. | :47:49. | :47:52. |