Browse content similar to 07/07/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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leads the way in the government 's plans to reduce reoffending. A | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
private company is now paid by results to keep former prisoners out | :01:21. | :01:31. | |
:01:31. | :01:31. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2166 seconds | :01:31. | :37:38. | |
programme. I am Etholle George. It has been described as a revolution | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
in the way that we manage offenders. Forging the way ahead is | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
Peterborough Prison. Probation officers warn that the government is | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
gambling with the public's safety. This could be cataclysmic. The speed | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
at which it is being done is not good. There is no evidence that this | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
will work. Plus the referendum vote on EU | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
membership. We speak to a business who thinks we would be better off | :38:01. | :38:07. | |
out of it. If we are not in the EU, they will still want to trade with | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
us and their businesses will still want to trade with us. | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
Let us meet our guests. Richard Howitt, MEP for the East and David | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
Campbell Bannerman who as a Conservative MEP. Let us talk about | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
this bill that passed its first hurdle on Friday to allow a | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
referendum on whether or not we want to leave the EU. Our region has a | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
lot of links with Europe. Not only is it geographically close, it is a | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
big trading partner and the home for more short-term migrants than almost | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
anywhere else in Britain. Not surprisingly, a lot of our MEPs were | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
present for Friday's debate. Luton's Kelvin Hopkins got a loud | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
cheer when he said he would be supporting the bill. Many other MPs | :38:52. | :38:58. | |
for the East made their views clear. This is an issue about trust between | :38:58. | :39:04. | |
politicians and general and the British electorate, giving that too | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
many promises have been broken in the past, including Labour's | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
promises about a referendum when it came to the EU constitution on | :39:12. | :39:20. | |
Lisbon. Richard Howitt, is this a serious attempt to give more say to | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
the British public or is it about that bench pressure and pressure | :39:24. | :39:32. | |
from backbenchers in the East? was little over one year ago that | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
the David Cameron march through the same division lobby saying that this | :39:35. | :39:41. | |
referendum could be damaging. Mr Hague told the Commons on Friday | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
that a referendum would not solve anything and it would be damaging to | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
jobs in business and southernly because of that pressure they have | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
been forced to rush through this Private Members' Bill which as an | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
absorbed way to deal with the issue. They all went off to a barbecue at | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
the Downing Street to have their sausages and burgers. This is all | :40:01. | :40:07. | |
about David Cameron seeing a split Tory Party under threat from UKIP | :40:07. | :40:16. | |
and rewarding has Eurosceptic backbenchers! You represented UKIP | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
before you defected to the Conservatives. Is it about heading | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
off the threat from UKIP? I do not think it is. What Richard has not | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
said is that the great majority of the British people want a referendum | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
and Kate Hoey in the debate on Friday said that the majority of | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
Labour Party members want a referendum. It is not just about | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
Conservatives and this is why I have come back from UKIP because I think | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
a referendum is the correct way forward. Why can it not be a | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
government bill? The in-house referendum is officially their | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
policy but they have blocked it so we have to do it by a Private | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
Members' Bill. I think it is very important, it is what the majority | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
of people want to see and I am delighted by it. Thank you. More on | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
Europe later but let us move on to the pilot scheme for former | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
offenders at Peterborough Prison. It is part of a huge shake-up going on | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
in the probation service. As part of the government's reforms, private | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
companies and charities will supervise rehabilitation for | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
prisoners. They will receive payment by results if reoffending falls. The | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
national probation service will only manage high risk offenders. Official | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
figures stroll a slight drop in reoffending but critics believe this | :41:35. | :41:44. | |
is putting the public at risk. You are on job-seeker's allowance? | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
Making his mentor to help him with life on the outside, former prisoner | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
Michael served time for attempted robbery and smashing a shop and | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
though so he could go back to behind the bars to avoid being homeless. He | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
is one of hundreds of repeat offenders on a pilot scheme to help | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
them stay on the straight and narrow. If they had not been here, | :42:05. | :42:11. | |
where do you think you would be now? Prison. It is a vicious circle. I | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
would have come out and had nowhere to go, back onto the streets when I | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
do not want to be. I would do something shifted like smashing shop | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
window and get back into prison. More than half of all prisoners end | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
up back in jail. The government is banking on this pilot to work so | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
that it can be rolled out nationally as part of its so-called | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
rehabilitation revolution. Inside the Bregier, prisoners identified to | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
go on the pilot are talking -- are told about this new service and how | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
it is aimed to break the cycle of reoffending. The pilot has recorded | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
a slight drop in reoffending so far. The plan is for businesses and | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
voluntary organisations to be rewarded with payments if they | :42:53. | :43:01. | |
succeed. They can try to help people who are addicted to alcohol and | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
drugs. They will be given mentor 's for emotional support. It is all | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
part of a bigger picture. Privatisation of the probation | :43:10. | :43:16. | |
service, with companies like G4S supervising the 200,000 or so low to | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
medium risk offenders and the state-run probation service handling | :43:19. | :43:25. | |
the 50,000 most dangerous offenders. I think this is cataclysmic. It is | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
the speed at which it is being done. There is no evidence that this will | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
work. The government is playing a dangerous game and the public will | :43:33. | :43:39. | |
be put at risk. The risk should never be a contractual matter and | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
those other plans from the government to actually privatise the | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
majority of the probation service in order to fund these supervisions of | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
short-term custody. As long as you have people doing it for profit | :43:52. | :43:59. | |
there is the real potential of risk being compromised by financial and | :43:59. | :44:04. | |
business reasons. The danger is that risk changes all of the time and it | :44:04. | :44:10. | |
is very difficult to tell when someone moves from being a low risk | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
to a high risk. The probation service has expertise in that but | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
they will be working for people on the lower end of the risk and they | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
will not be able to recognise when that change happens. | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
Critics argue the plan changes mean that provision will be on the cheap | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
and that it is too rapid and the system is ill thought out. The | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
government is looking for the Peterborough pilot to champion its | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
case and said there is no going back, Spike Allam voiced in | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
Parliament this week that the Justice Secretary has adopted an | :44:39. | :44:45. | |
aggressive timetable. Earlier in the week, Andrew Sinclair | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
met Jeremy Wright, the Minister for Prisons to discuss the changes to | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
the probation service and he asked Mr Wright about the Peterborough | :44:51. | :44:59. | |
pilot. With the intervention of a variety of different organisations | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
and voluntary organisations with some mentoring, we can see a real | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
change in the way in which reoffending is being brought down | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
among that group, and that is very encouraging and gives us a good | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
indication of what can be achieved across the country with our | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
rehabilitation reforms. There is no extra funding for this project. You | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
are relying on charities and volunteers to do this work. Is this | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
the best way to deal with something that is a serious problem? We spend | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
�1 billion each year on custodial disposals. I think that money could | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
be spent better and I think it could be spent in such a way that we are | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
able to bring in a very important and overlooked group of offenders | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
with the highest reoffending rates. If we do that we will be able to do | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
a great deal for the tax payer and we will be extending rehabilitation | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
to more people. That must be the right approach. You are outsourcing | :45:53. | :45:59. | |
low and medium risk offenders. The others will be retained by the | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
public sector. Those in the now tell me that someone can go quite easily | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
from being able to a high risk prisoner. With so many organisations | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
involved is there not a danger that someone will slip through the net? | :46:11. | :46:17. | |
It is true that people can change their risk profile and we must | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
design a system capable of dealing with that. The public sector | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
probation service must look after those who are at a higher risk of | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
causing serious harm. If someone becomes of a higher risk they will | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
be transferred to the other except probation service. If the provider | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
dealing with them at the time... you sure this will happen? Yes it | :46:39. | :46:47. | |
will. The assessment process will be done by the public sector. If that | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
assessment changes, if there are warning signs or a change in | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
behaviour, we will require the provider who is dealing with them | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
more time to revert them back to the public sector probation service for | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
another risk assessment. What kind of staff will these private | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
companies recruit? It takes two years to train a probation officer. | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
Will this mean the job will be downgraded? Anyone who would like to | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
bid for one of these contracts and there are 21 areas in the country | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
where these contracts will be available, anyone who wants to bid | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
for this work will need to satisfy us that they will start with the | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
appropriate skills and training. No one will get this work until they | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
satisfy us in that regard and they will have to demonstrate to us that | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
they are fit to take on this work. This is happening very quickly with | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
an ambitious timescale. You want this in place by the end of next | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
year. Is this realistic? There is a sense of urgency and this is a | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
challenging timetable but it has been designed because the urgency | :47:46. | :47:52. | |
here really is that every year at the moment 600,000 offences are | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
committed by people who have previously committed eight offence. | :47:56. | :48:03. | |
What about that timescale. We heard the former provision of us are | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
saying at is cataclysmic, do you agree with that, David? You can see | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
from the results there has been a drop in reoffending as opposed to a | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
national average of a 16% rise in the offending. This is a successful | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
pilot, let us see how it does. I think it is going in the rate | :48:22. | :48:28. | |
direction and it could be a national model. Richard Howitt, fewer | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
prisoners reoffending for less money, a good deal for the taxpayer? | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
I know the people at Peterborough Prison and I have helped them some | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
time ago and they have done some really excellent work where on | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
literacy training for prisoners which can most often stop them | :48:45. | :48:51. | |
reoffending. Privatising probation services, these are the people who | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
the hole society, they are the people who monitor child abusers and | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
sex offenders and this will begin to G4S, the people who made errors at | :49:00. | :49:07. | |
the Olympics, they have completely failed. We should not focus on that | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
particular company, they are not here to defend themselves. We are | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
talking about a low-risk prisoners and medium risk prisoners. What is | :49:15. | :49:23. | |
the problem with that staying within the probation service itself? | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
Prisoners do not uniquely fit into different categories and we all | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
remember the Soham tragedy where one police force did not share | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
information with the other one. One of the real concerns about this | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
arrangement is that of the will not have the proper information sharing | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
and that dangerous people in our society may slip through the net. | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
you disagree with that, David? does not apply to serious | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
offenders. I would not call those serious offenders in that category. | :49:53. | :49:58. | |
These are lighter offenders, not in that serious category and I think it | :49:58. | :50:05. | |
is worthwhile overseeing this. crimes are you talking about? | :50:05. | :50:11. | |
Obviously not murder and serious crimes. Which ones? Burglaries and | :50:11. | :50:17. | |
so on. If you are a victim of a burglary you do not regard that as a | :50:17. | :50:24. | |
light crime. I am just think that is another category. What about the | :50:24. | :50:29. | |
aspects of training? It takes two years to train a probation officer, | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
are you confident the training as resilient enough? As the Minister | :50:33. | :50:40. | |
has made clear, there are standards and you will not lower them. The | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
idea that you cannot make things work better in the public sector and | :50:44. | :50:52. | |
public services as ridiculous. Unison or others should not be | :50:52. | :50:58. | |
dictating the agenda. We have got to make these kind of initiatives | :50:58. | :51:04. | |
because we are under enormous pressure. The Work Programme said | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
give it to private providers, they will do it cheaper. Two years later | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
they cannot do it and have come back to the government. That will happen | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
on this issue as well. Back to Europe. The Dejan's | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
Conservative MPs and one of its Labour MPs have voted for a | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
referendum on Britain's membership of the EU. If it makes its way onto | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
the statute books that could have that in or out referendum within the | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
next four years. A few weeks ago we looked at the case for staying in | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
the European Union. This week we have met some of the arguments | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
against it. Andrew Howard runs the Peterborough logistics company PC | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
Howard Ltd. They told us why he has changed his mind about staying in | :51:42. | :51:48. | |
Europe. One of the biggest changes the | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
impact on our industry is the upgrading of the emissions | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
requirements for vehicles in the United Kingdom. We are going from | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
Level five to six which means that for every vehicle you purchase at | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
ten to �15,000 onto the top cost. Bearing in mind the number of | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
vehicles we have that is a significant cost over the lifetime | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
of the vehicle. Not only as we as an industry could do without it, the | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
country could do without it. I just try to come out of the worst | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
recession that we have ever had and here we are actually putting more | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
costs onto the businesses and moving goods around the United Kingdom. My | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
view has completely changed. 20 years ago if you had been talking to | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
me I would have been in favour of being in the European Union and the | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
potential that could give us. I only see one we know, to be honest. I | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
cannot say negotiations working. There are 28 members, lots of them | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
are small members and we are net contributor. Can you see on a | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
majority voting basis that the jollity of them are going to vote to | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
support us? It does not work and I cannot see how it will work for UK | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
companies. Those who scare us with the stories that we will lose trade | :53:02. | :53:08. | |
are misleading. We are the fourth or fifth largest economy in the world | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
and the Europeans and the Southern Europeans were the market is | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
limited, are they really going to put out a market on one-sided? Of | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
course they are not. If we are not in the European Union they will | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
still want to keep with us and their businesses will definitely want to | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
take with us. All the time new things are coming into play. Whilst | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
these new rules may be well intended and in principle may be OK, the | :53:33. | :53:39. | |
timing is just unbelievable not only for our business but everyone who | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
works for us because we must get the economy running and, again, we | :53:43. | :53:49. | |
cannot afford to put barriers in place that slows everything down. | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
There are changes in lots of different holiday pay, things like | :53:53. | :54:00. | |
that. They all come into play and have an effect on a small business | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
when someone is off and the rest of the team have to cover it. | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
Definitely adds to the red tape and I have not seen any reduction in | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
that over the recent years. Richard Howitt, we heard some of the case | :54:15. | :54:22. | |
for coming out of Europe, what about staying in Europe? What are your | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
main reasons for wanting to stay in Europe? The idea that we should have | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
lower environmental standards that people should not have holidays or | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
take time off to have a baby, these are great advantage is that we have | :54:35. | :54:41. | |
for working in the European Union, and that is the shortcut way to | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
dealing with this issue. Of course, things must change if we are going | :54:45. | :54:51. | |
to continue to trade. But if we are going to trade with European Union | :54:51. | :54:58. | |
we will pay the price if we are not part of it. It always costs more per | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
capita so we will get all of the costs but none of the benefits. | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
know about red tape and legislation and that it costs time and money. | :55:07. | :55:14. | |
you have a heavy lorry running outside your road and the fumes have | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
been the in by your children, you want higher environmental standards. | :55:19. | :55:24. | |
That distribution company, we have to listen to them and I respect | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
their point of view, it was only a few weeks ago we looked at a company | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
in Norfolk that wants to export to the European Union and understands | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
that every exports to the European Union are outside of it, we still | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
must comply with the rules as far as exports go, so we will have one | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
company meeting high standards and one not. There are high costs of | :55:47. | :55:57. | |
:55:57. | :55:57. | ||
that. It is �75 billion that we put into the pot in 2011 than the took | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
out, that surely is a good reason for coming out? That is 1% of public | :56:01. | :56:07. | |
spending. You can make it sound a large but look at the money that | :56:07. | :56:12. | |
central government spends. That money should be well spent at | :56:12. | :56:17. | |
whatever level. It is my job as a Member of the European Parliament to | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
make sure it is spent in Europe but when I was talking last Friday at a | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
meeting with the businesses and the enterprise partnerships in | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
Hertfordshire and Cambridgeshire about how we will spend nearly �1 | :56:29. | :56:36. | |
billion of European funding in our region... Excuse me, let me bring | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
back David Campbell Bannerman. did you make of that? There is a sea | :56:40. | :56:48. | |
change. There has been ace change in the attitudes and I think the | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
Referendum Bill as part of that. Personally, I would like to leave | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
the European Union and I have argued for that. Have just come back from | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
Norway and it is doing incredibly well. It has the lowest unemployment | :56:59. | :57:07. | |
in Europe. It is the richest country per head in Europe and it has a | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
welfare fund of 700 million dollars. Do we not want to be like that? We | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
could have all of those advantages and still trade with the European | :57:16. | :57:21. | |
Union. According to the polls at the moment, more people want to stay in | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
the European Union than come out, so if there was a referendum you would | :57:23. | :57:32. | |
lose. It depends on what polls you look at. We are trying to | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
renegotiate but if we cannot get what we want, then we can negotiate | :57:36. | :57:42. | |
an out deal in Switzerland and Norway. Switzerland is the third | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
largest trading partner in the EU. It has full access to the EU market | :57:45. | :57:50. | |
as we would, as Mr Howard's company would. Should people not have a | :57:50. | :57:57. | |
choice? It is a huge mistake for us to leave the European Union. Why go | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
down the road with something you disagree with. | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
Talking of changes, nowadays it is all speed dating and action on | :58:05. | :58:15. | |
:58:15. | :58:16. | ||
Twitter. Deborah has been trying to keep up. | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
This speed dating in Norwich was for social housing tenants hunting for | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
new homes, so no romance in the air but signs of growth for the | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
Chancellor on a visit to Northampton. They are making signs | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
for other businesses that are opening new premises. That is | :58:32. | :58:37. | |
encouraging. Encouragement for children to take up sport, the | :58:37. | :58:41. | |
government is putting in �150 million as part of the Olympic | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
legacy fund social media whipped up a storm this week when the MP for | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
Harpal called for aid rector at Tesco to resign after he wrote a | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
message on Twitter. The tweet was incredibly callous and almost sick | :58:55. | :59:00. | |
because it basically says it celebrates the closing of the depot | :59:00. | :59:04. | |
in Harlow. The only way is Essex it would seem | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
as Sir Bob Russell as Heald as a style inspiration by another | :59:08. | :59:15. | |
tweeter. Good Sir Bob Russell catch on? It could be a welcome addition | :59:15. | :59:24. | |
to others or perhaps not! David Campbell Bannerman, would you | :59:24. | :59:31. | |
consider that sort of your card? really! Richard, what about those | :59:31. | :59:36. | |
Tesco workers in Harlow? Do they have the right to complain about | :59:36. | :59:44. | |
that tweet? Yes. 800 people losing their job and Havel, I was | :59:44. | :59:49. | |
devastated by the decision made by Tesco's. It has nothing to do with | :59:49. | :59:55. | |
what! If you are a family unemployed in Harlow today the idea is | :59:55. | :00:03. | |
revolting. Do you do business by Twitter, David? I do tweet. I think | :00:03. | :00:10. | |
there has been a mistake made here. It has come across appalling and I | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
deeply regret the loss of those jobs. | :00:13. | :00:19. |