23/03/2014 Sunday Politics East


23/03/2014

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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. The dust has barely

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settled on George Osborne's Sunday Politics. The dust has barely

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and, amazingly, for once it hasn't all gone horribly wrong by the

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weekend. So, is this the election springboard the Tories needed, and

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where does it leave Labour? Turns out the big Budget surprise was a

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revolution in how we pay for old age. The Pensions Minister says he's

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relaxed if you want to spend it all on a Lamborghini. He'll join us

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later. And could the man with the maracas be on his way to

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Westminster? Bez from the Happy Mondays tells us about his unlikely

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plan And here: The workers with zero

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confidence in zero hours contracts. stay in Axbridge. Are there ways of

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making the European arrest warrant work better? -- Uxbridge. And who

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better to help guide you through all of that than three journalists, who

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dispense wisdom faster than Grant Shapps calls out the numbers in his

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local bingo hall over a pint of beer. Yes, they're hard-working and

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they're doing the things they enjoy. Cup of tea, number three. It's Nick

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Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh.

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So, George Osborne delivered his fifth Budget on Wednesday and had so

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many glowing front pages the day afterwards he must be running out of

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room to pin them up in on his bedroom wall. Although it's probably

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a pretty big wall. For those of you who didn't have time to watch 3 5

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hours of Budget coverage on the BBC, here's Giles with the whole thing in

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three minutes. Budget days have a rhythm of their

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own, driven partly by tradition like that photocall at 11 Downing

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Street and part logistics, how to get this important statement out and

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explain to those whom it affects - us? Behind-the-scenes of a Budget

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Day is much the same. This ritual red boxery may be the beginning of

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the end of weeks of work behind the scenes in the Treasury and sets the

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clock ticking on the process of finding out the answer to one

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question. You got any rabbits in the box, Chancellor? Yes, there will be

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something in the Budget we don't know about. Time marches steadily

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towards the statement know about. Time marches steadily

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commentators are hovering over what those potential surprises are. As

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Big Ben chimes, all focus returns to the Commons, where there is Prime

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Minister's questions and the Chancellor gets up and does his

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thing. Once he's on his feet and remembering there is still no copy

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of the details, the major measures are rapidly highlighted as they come

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and then put up on screen. A cap on Government welfare spending set for

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2015/16 at 119 billion. Income tax personal allowance raised to

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?10,500. Bingo duty halved, which ticked boxes for some but was

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unlikely to make anyone a poster boy. And the beer tax cut of 1p or

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the froth on the top. And changes to pensions allowing people to take

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their money out in one lump sum rather than being forced to accept a

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fixed annual pay-out, or annuity. This is a Budget for the makers the

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doers and the savers and I commend it to the House. Not everyone can

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focus on the Budget by listening to what the Chancellor says. We need to

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get a copy of the script. We do not get that till he sits down. I'm

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going to go into the House of Commons to get that right now. There

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will be a response on that and all the other things from Mr Miliband.

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The Chancellor spoke for nearly an hour but he did not mention one

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essential fact, the working people of Britain are worse off under the

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Tories. It is a tricky job answering the Budget at the best of times

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though some, including Labour MPs, think it is better to mention the

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Budget when you do. Here we are. I am going to go. I am

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not the only journalist missing Ed Miliband's speech.

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not the only journalist missing Ed the Chamber as the Chancellor sits

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down to attend a special briefing from the Chancellor's advisory team.

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I am hotfoot to the studio. There is a little more detail to the Budget

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than the Budget Speech. That detail can be whether words unravel and

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other interpretations emerge. By now the gaggle of supporters and

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detractors are taking the debate onto the airwaves. Are you the BBC?

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Have the Daily Politics packed up? No, we're still standing and, days

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later, still trying to assess whether the measures announced still

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seem fresh and appetising or have already gone stale in the minds of

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voters? How significant are these two poles

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this morning putting Labour and Tory nip and tuck? Osborne gave his party

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a good bounce. It was an astonishingly theatrical coup. At

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first glance, it seems like a huge gift to all people. That is where

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all of the money has been channelled by this government. They have been

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ultra-protected, triple locked. Pensioners have done very well and

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others less well. It is not surprising. Normally a budget which

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is well received on the day and the day after has unravelled by the

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weekend. This time, it has not, so far. The dangerous thing for the

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Labour Party now, George Osborne is the assessment this thing called the

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baseline. He says, in government, you must control the baseline. The

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Labour party controlled in 2001 and 2005 and he needs to control it next

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time. He is controlling it on fiscal policy because labour is matching

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them on everything. The danger for Labour on the big, headline grabbing

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issue, which was freeing up annuities on pensions, that again

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Labour was pretty much saying it was going to support it though it were

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saying it has to be fair and cost-effective. On a big, policy

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issue, they are following on behind George Osborne. George Osborne is

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controlling the crucial baseline. Are we in danger of reading too much

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into the political implications of the budget? The good thing about the

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pensions policy is, if it does unravel, it will not happen for ten

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years and, by that time, George Osborne will have left office.

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Towards the end of his speech, I thought, that is not enough. There

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is not an idea in your budget which is politically very vivid a year

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before an election. What I underestimated was, how many

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frustrated savers that are in the country. There are a lot of people

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who are frustrated by low interest rates and tax rates on pension pots.

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This was an explicit gesture for them. That is what has paid off in

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the polls in the past few days. You spend all of your money on your

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wardrobe, is that right? The bingo poster was a kind of get out of jail

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card for Labour. It gave them something to zoom in on. Everyone

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beat up on Grant Shapps, the Tory chairman. We read in the daily

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Telegraph that the fingerprints of the Chancellor were all over this

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poster. The Chancellor signed off it -- off on it and so did Lynton

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Crosby. They referred to working class people as, they are. How did

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it get into the Telegraph? We can only presume but grant Shapps made

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it clear that it was not him. We had a time when Labour politicians, we

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saw from the response of Ed Miliband onwards, they were not quite sure

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how to react to this budget. A lot of detail had to be absorbed.

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Suddenly, here is something we can talk about. You can see the thinking

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behind the poster was very sensible. We are not Tory toffs, we are

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interested in helping people who do not come from our backgrounds. The

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wording was awful and played into every cliche. It was all his fault.

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It shows how unsophisticated he was. There were people from Tory HQ

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who agreed the budget. A month down the line will the budget look as

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good? Probably. Once people look at it, pensions are fiendishly

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conjugated. Once they look and see what it will do with people having

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to pay for their own care because they can now take capital at their

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pension, that will come as a shock to a lot of people with small

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savings. It all be gone on their care. The polling will be neck and

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neck all the way. In the past, George Osborne has been accused of

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neck all the way. In the past, using his Budgets to tinker at the

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margins or pull cheap tricks on his political opponents. Perish the

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thought. But the big surprise in this year's statement was a

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genuinely radical shake-up of the pensions system that will affect

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most people who've yet to retire. At the moment, everyone is saving money

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into a defined contribution pension, that is the type most common in the

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private sector. They can take 2 % of the pot is a tax-free lump sum when

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they retire. The rest of the money, for most people, they are forced to

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buy an annuity, a form of insurance which provide a guaranteed monthly

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income until they die. Annuities have hardly been a bargain since

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interest rates were flat slashed following the financial crash. Even

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with a ?100,000 following the financial crash. Even

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only get an income of ?5,800 a year at current rates. From 2018,

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pensioners will not be forced to buy an annuity. They can do what they

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like with their money, even taking the entire pot as a lump some but

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paying tax on 75% of it. With an average pension pot closer

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to around ?30,000, pensioners would be more likely to buy a Skoda

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instead of a Lamborghini. Most newly retired people who take the cash are

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more likely to spend the money paying off their mortgage, helping a

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family member to buy a property or investing the money elsewhere. Well,

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earlier I spoke to the Pensions Minister. He's a Lib Dem called

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Steve Webb. I began by asking him if he still thought the

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Steve Webb. I began by asking him if lead to pensioners splurging all

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their savings on supercars. What this reform is about is treating

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people as adults. For far too long, we have said, we will make sure you

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save for your old age and then we will control each year how much is

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spent on what you spend it on. What we are saying is because we have

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formed -- reformed the state pension, we will be much more

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relaxed about what people do with their own money. The evidence is

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that people who have been frugal and saved hard for retirement do not

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generally blows a lot. They will spin it out. It is treating people

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as adults and giving them choices they should have had all along. It

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is a red herring, isn't it? The average pension pot is between 5000

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and 30,000. Lamborghinis aren't an option, correct? I gather only about

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5000 people a year retiring can buy a flashy Italian sports car. It

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might be about paying off a mortgage, paying off outstanding

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debts. Maybe spending more money earlier in retirement when they are

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fit and able and can enjoy it more. We will give people guidance. We

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will make sure when they retire there is someone to have a

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conversation with talking through the implications of spending the

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money early and options of investing it. This will be a real step

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forward. Even if you have a much bigger pension pot, say half ?1

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million, which is way bigger than the average, even then the marginal

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rates of tax will be a disincentive to take it all out at once. You will

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lose huge chunks of it at the 4 % band and then the 45% band. The tax

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system gives you the incentive to spread it out if the tax threshold

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is a bit over 10000 and the state pension is a bit over 7000, the

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first 3000 you draw out in a given year is tax-free. The next band is

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at 20%. Spreading your money will mean you pay less tax. That is why,

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in general, people will not blow the lot up front. They will spread it

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out over their retirement. You have kept this policy quiet. Not even a

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hint. How did you test it? How did you make sure it would be robust?

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You did not do a consultation. I have been talking about freeing up

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the annuity market for a decade The idea of giving people more choice.

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The government has relaxed rules over this Parliament. It was not a

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completely new idea. We know in places like Australia and America,

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people have these freedoms. We already have something to judge it

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by. We will spend the next year talking to people, working it

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through. There will be a three-month consultation. I want people to have

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choices about their own money. There is detail still to be worked out and

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we are in listening mode about how we implement it. When you announce

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something you cannot do widespread consultation, for the reasons I have

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given, you do run the risk of unforeseen consequences? Pension

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companies this morning are indicating, you, the government can

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write you are looking for ?25 billion of infrastructure investment

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from us. You hold our shell below the water line. That may not happen.

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We spoke internally about the implications for instruction --

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infrastructure. It seems to me there will still be long-term investments.

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Many people want to turn their whole pot into an income. I understand the

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insurance companies are lobbying, but I'm convinced there will still

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be plenty of money for investment and infrastructure. If the

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Chancellor's pro-savings measures work, that will generate more

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savings. With no requirement now to buy an annuity, surely it is the

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case that pension pots buy an annuity, surely it is the

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ordinary savings fund, so why should they continue to get favourable tax

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treatment? Bear in mind that a lot of the tax treatment of pensioners

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is tax deferred so most people pay tax at the standard rate. If they

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put money into a pension, they don't pay tax when they earn it, but they

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do at retirement. We do want, we will still have automatic enrolment

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into workplace pensions, we do want people to build up, because at age

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20 and 30 nobody thinks about retirement. It is still vital that

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people do reach retirement to have these new choices with a decent

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sized pension pot. Pensions. Tax breaks because they were supposed to

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provide an income in retirement that is how it was structured, but

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that is no longer a requirement surely that undermines the case that

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if they get tax breaks, other forms of savings should get tax breaks.

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Other forms do get tax breaks, of course. The return with ISAs is tax

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free. The point with pensions is that you are simply deferring your

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earnings. There is a bit when high tax rate payers get a kick when they

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are working and then retire on standard rate, so there is the issue

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of the top getting too many tax breaks, but the basic principle that

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you pay tax when you get the income seems right to me and isn't affected

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by these changes. You have announced save friendly measures, are we right

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to look at them as a consolation prize because savers have suffered

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from the Government's policy of keeping interest rates abnormally

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low? It is certainly the case that very low interest rates have been a

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huge boon to people of working age with mortgages, and people who have

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retired said they thought they could have got a better deal on their

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savings. I think there is a recognition that whilst we have done

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the right thing with pensioners on the state pension, we have brought

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in the triple lock, and many will bent on -- benefit from these

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changes. Why don't savers who are not pensioners get the same help?

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They have been hit by low interest rates as well. Those of working

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age, many of them say they have benefited from low interest rates

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was predominantly people in retirement have not had the benefit.

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Obviously people of working age will have benefited from the tax

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allowance so it is a myth to say the Budget was all about pensioners And

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yet even when the Office for Budget Responsibility takes into account

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your new measures, it still Responsibility takes into account

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that over the next five years households will save less and less,

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indeed the savings ratio falls by 50%. You haven't done enough. One of

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the things we know is that the economy is picking up strongly, and

:20:17.:20:20.

as we have more confidence about the future they will be more willing to

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consume now, so without these measures it may be that the saving

:20:24.:20:28.

rate would have fallen further. We want people to save and spend, it is

:20:29.:20:36.

about getting the right balance As the economy picks up, people will

:20:37.:20:39.

want to spend more of their money and it is about getting the balance

:20:40.:20:46.

right. You make the point that if people are little profligate with

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their private pensions, they will have the state pension to fall back

:20:50.:20:51.

on and it will be higher than it have the state pension to fall back

:20:52.:20:56.

been, but it is also the case that in these circumstances they will

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still be entitled to housing benefit and even to perhaps some council tax

:21:02.:21:06.

benefit as well. Do you know by how much this could put the welfare bill

:21:07.:21:13.

up? We think the impact will be relatively modest because the sort

:21:14.:21:18.

of people who save for a pension and make sacrifices while they are at

:21:19.:21:22.

work are not the sort of people who get to 65 and decide to blow the lot

:21:23.:21:29.

for the great privilege of receiving council tax benefit or housing

:21:30.:21:32.

benefit. There will be people on the margins and

:21:33.:21:44.

benefit. There will be people on the who retire with some capital want to

:21:45.:21:45.

put some money away for their funeral. People like to save even

:21:46.:21:52.

into retirement so the myth of the spendthrift pensioner I don't

:21:53.:21:57.

believe. I think this has been rightly welcomed. Ever fancied a

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Lamborghini yourself? If you turned the camera around you would see my

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2-door Corsa! What's your favourite thing about an

:22:19.:22:21.

election? Could it be the candidates ringing on your door while you're

:22:22.:22:24.

having dinner? The leaflets piling up on your doormat? Or the endless

:22:25.:22:27.

adverts aimed at hardworking families? Well, if you thought that

:22:28.:22:30.

was bad enough, then you might want to consider going overseas for the

:22:31.:22:33.

2015 election because the parties are going to be aiming their message

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at you like never before. Adam's been to Worcester to find out more.

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One of the most famous political figures in history lived here, she

:22:43.:22:48.

is called Worcester woman. She was in her 30s, working class with a

:22:49.:22:52.

couple of kids, aspirational yet worried about quality of life. But

:22:53.:22:56.

she wasn't a real person, she was a label for the kind of voter new

:22:57.:23:01.

Labour were trying to reach and she was later joined by Mondeo man and

:23:02.:23:08.

several others. Doesn't that all seem a bit 90s? The technique,

:23:09.:23:12.

called segmentation, was used by George Bush in 2004. Then refined by

:23:13.:23:19.

Barack Obama. Rather than focusing on crude measures like cars and

:23:20.:23:25.

hometowns, they delved into the minds of voters. It is not just

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women, not just people who live in cities, but if you start to put

:23:30.:23:35.

together these groups of people you can even in an anecdote or way

:23:36.:23:40.

imagine who they are, what types of language and imagery might relate to

:23:41.:23:48.

them. We have been given access to a new polling model being used here by

:23:49.:23:53.

this firm, which is pretty close to the one we are told is being used by

:23:54.:24:00.

the Tories. It carves the country into six personality types, and we

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are trying it out on Worcester woman and wast of man. We are using an

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online quiz to work out who is in which segment. Meet new monk,

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Susie. She feels well represented. I know the Budget and the increases to

:24:19.:24:25.

childcare, I think at the moment I am fairly represented. This puts her

:24:26.:24:30.

in the category of optimistic contentment, people who feel they

:24:31.:24:35.

are doing OK. Terry, on the other hand, isn't happy about Britain

:24:36.:24:43.

today. Health and safety and all that! I hardly recognise the country

:24:44.:24:52.

a living in any more? Yes. Are you ready for the result? He is Mr

:24:53.:24:59.

comfortable nostalgia, they tend to favour the Tories and UKIP. They

:25:00.:25:03.

dislike the cultural changes they see as altering Britain for the

:25:04.:25:09.

worst. That sums me up. Tony is worried as well but feels much less

:25:10.:25:17.

secure. I look forward to the future with optimism or anxiety? Anxiety.

:25:18.:25:25.

Optimist or pessimist? Pessimist. His category is... You feel a bit

:25:26.:25:35.

insecure, you think the Government could probably help you more? Yes.

:25:36.:25:42.

Labour picks up a lot of these voters. This man is being asked to

:25:43.:25:48.

do more and more at work, but he is getting less and less. I am getting

:25:49.:25:56.

more towards the despair side. Things are getting tougher,

:25:57.:26:01.

generally? It puts him into the segment called long-term despair,

:26:02.:26:07.

people who feel left out. Finally, this is ever thoughtful Carol. I am

:26:08.:26:17.

a bit of an idealist. Her idealism makes her a cosmopolitan critic I

:26:18.:26:24.

am a liberal person. Apparently a lot of the media fit into this

:26:25.:26:28.

category as well. There is one group of voters we have not come across,

:26:29.:26:33.

people who show calm persistence. They hope things will get better but

:26:34.:26:38.

don't expect them to. They are coping, rather than comfortable

:26:39.:26:43.

Presumably they are all out of work. Which group are you win? You can

:26:44.:26:48.

take the poll on the BBC website, and in the coming weeks we will be

:26:49.:26:53.

doing our own polling using the six segments to see of the politicians

:26:54.:27:00.

really have worked out how we think. And as Adam said, if you want to try

:27:01.:27:04.

the survey for yourself, you can go to the BBC website and click on the

:27:05.:27:07.

link. And we're joined now by the

:27:08.:27:16.

pollster, Rick Nye. Welcome to Sunday Politics. We have had

:27:17.:27:22.

Worcester woman, Worcester man, is this any different? It is a

:27:23.:27:29.

recognition that or politician - all politics these days is like

:27:30.:27:42.

this. It enables them to cut them more finally. You think all politics

:27:43.:27:50.

is coalition politics, you think they have to put together these

:27:51.:27:55.

groups of people, not that the Lib Dems will always be in power? No,

:27:56.:28:01.

and if you listen to the coverage these days you might think it is

:28:02.:28:07.

about grumpy old men on the one hand with Guardian readers on the other.

:28:08.:28:12.

It is far more complicated than that, there is a lot of churning

:28:13.:28:15.

going on underneath which is driven by people's value systems. A lot of

:28:16.:28:23.

this has been pioneered in the United States, very sophisticated on

:28:24.:28:28.

their election techniques, and in Britain we are always the first to

:28:29.:28:33.

grab whatever the New Year will is from America. How do you think this

:28:34.:28:38.

will translate to this country? I think it means that if you are

:28:39.:28:41.

target photo you will still get the same of leaflets and people calling,

:28:42.:28:47.

but you will probably have different kinds of conversations because

:28:48.:28:52.

people on the other side, the party campaigners, will think they know

:28:53.:28:59.

more about you. Will I know who you are? If I am a party campaigner

:29:00.:29:03.

will I know, looking down the street, who fits into which

:29:04.:29:08.

category? You will be able to approximate that with all of the

:29:09.:29:11.

other data that you have gathered through polling, or doing local

:29:12.:29:17.

campaigning, that is the idea to make sense of this vast quantity of

:29:18.:29:23.

data people have about voters. We asked our panel to fill in your

:29:24.:29:28.

survey. Nick is optimistic contentment, 99%. He was 1%

:29:29.:29:34.

cosmopolitan critic, which is how he keeps his job at the Guardian.

:29:35.:29:40.

Polly's job could not be more secure, 100% cosmopolitan critics,

:29:41.:29:46.

and Janan Ganesh, optimistic contentment, which is what you would

:29:47.:29:50.

expect from a financial Times columnist. What do you make of this

:29:51.:30:06.

technique? Why are you only 99? It sounds really clever. 95% of the

:30:07.:30:16.

population five years ago voted Labour or the Conservatives. We have

:30:17.:30:20.

got away from that. It is coalition politics. You need sophisticated

:30:21.:30:26.

methods. Presumably you must not lose touch with basic points. You

:30:27.:30:30.

methods. Presumably you must not said it was used in the US

:30:31.:30:34.

presidential elections. Wasn't there them moment emit Romney 's sweet

:30:35.:30:40.

when the initial response was, we did not know the sort of people

:30:41.:30:46.

voted. His next response was, we did not know these people existed.

:30:47.:30:52.

Unless you know about certain key demographics, you are wasting your

:30:53.:30:57.

time. Is it important in modern campaigning? I think it is useful

:30:58.:31:04.

because it is about attitude. We have got Mosaic. We have got Acorn.

:31:05.:31:14.

It does not tell us very much. What people think and feel may be

:31:15.:31:18.

different to their income. You can be quite a high earner and anxious.

:31:19.:31:20.

You can be quite a low be quite a high earner and anxious.

:31:21.:31:24.

feeling aspirational and optimistic about the future. I think this does

:31:25.:31:31.

get something else. In days gone by, particularly in America,

:31:32.:31:36.

overwhelmingly, if you are in the better of segment, you would be

:31:37.:31:40.

Republican and the blue-collar workers and some academics and

:31:41.:31:44.

Liberals voted Democrat. In the last election, the richest 200 counties

:31:45.:31:49.

in America voted Democrat. That is an attitude thing. Income does not

:31:50.:31:54.

tell you how people will vote. There is a huge, working-class base of

:31:55.:31:59.

support for the Republicans. It is unavoidable. Add a time when people

:32:00.:32:03.

no longer identify with ideologies or class blocks, you have to go the

:32:04.:32:12.

temperament and lifestyle and manageable. In America there were

:32:13.:32:22.

128 segments according to lifestyle and Outlook. Once you get to that

:32:23.:32:27.

stage, it becomes close to useless. We were talking about the budget

:32:28.:32:32.

earlier. What other polls saying about the budget? The lead of labour

:32:33.:32:40.

has been narrowed over the Conservatives. -- Labour. Osborne

:32:41.:32:48.

and Cameron as an academic team have always had a lead over Miller band

:32:49.:32:54.

and Balls. This week it is about economic management. -- over Mr

:32:55.:32:56.

Miller band. Thank you for being with us today.

:32:57.:33:12.

It's just gone 11:30am. You're watching the Sunday Politics. We say

:33:13.:33:16.

goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics

:33:17.:33:17.

Scotland. Coming up here in 20 Scotland. Coming up here in 20

:33:18.:33:19.

minutes: Hello and welcome. Coming up into

:33:20.:33:33.

deep's programme, the pros `nd cons of zero hours contracts. `` today's

:33:34.:33:43.

programme. One week I could be working zero hours, the next 50

:33:44.:33:49.

hours. And we ask how do yot get money from the Treasury in `n age of

:33:50.:34:00.

austerity? So let's meet our guests. David roughly for the Conservatives.

:34:01.:34:10.

And foreign Labour, Sharon Taylor, the leader of Stevenage Borough

:34:11.:34:18.

Council. In the week that Gdorge Osborne said we should get Britain

:34:19.:34:22.

building, we are going to start with housing. Our sister programle East

:34:23.:34:32.

has been looking at how thotsands of homes have planning permisshon but

:34:33.:34:44.

have not been built. We need to build 20,000 houses per year but we

:34:45.:34:50.

are only building 11,000. For years on, under the coalition,

:34:51.:34:54.

house`building is at a level we have not seen since 1923, how can we get

:34:55.:35:02.

this building done now? Letters up 10% from where it was put ydars ago.

:35:03.:35:10.

It is more attractive note for developers to use the land backs

:35:11.:35:14.

which they have got because of the right to buy programme. That is

:35:15.:35:21.

getting more people there whth mortgages. The more house btyers

:35:22.:35:25.

there are with ready cash, the developers will build. Therd have

:35:26.:35:30.

been plenty of chances to do more already, haven't they? It h`s

:35:31.:35:40.

allowed a lot more mortgages at low rates, the news scheme. Let's talk

:35:41.:35:47.

about the so`called land banking. Ed Miliband said in Stevenage hf

:35:48.:35:53.

developers did not fill the land would be taken from them, how is

:35:54.:36:00.

that even possible? Part of the cost of living prices is related to

:36:01.:36:05.

housing, particularly in our region were renting is high and we have got

:36:06.:36:12.

to get building which will leet the real difference to get people into

:36:13.:36:17.

homes at a price they can afford. The lot can be done. We do not know

:36:18.:36:24.

have a programme where we c`n tie up together all the different local

:36:25.:36:29.

Lanning plans that councils are making to ask if it will add up to

:36:30.:36:34.

the total number of houses we need to deliver. Secondly, counchls can

:36:35.:36:40.

do a lot more to deliver hotsing in Stevenage. We have bought houses on

:36:41.:36:45.

the open market and let thel out as council houses. We need the

:36:46.:36:50.

borrowing cap on our housing account to be lifted. We will pay it back

:36:51.:36:56.

through the rental scheme and that will be one way of getting dvil more

:36:57.:37:02.

affordable housing. The jobless total for the country went down

:37:03.:37:06.

again for this month while the figure for this region went up by

:37:07.:37:11.

7000. Are those in work in proper jobs? The number on the door our

:37:12.:37:19.

contract is growing. These `llowed companies to hire workers whthout

:37:20.:37:23.

guaranteeing a set number of hours. What is it like for employeds? This

:37:24.:37:31.

man used to work full`time `s a scaffolder when he was bettdr but

:37:32.:37:35.

more recently he has been working on a zero hours contract at a fast`food

:37:36.:37:42.

outlet. I did not know what I was working from one week to thd next,

:37:43.:37:47.

one week could be a Towers, the next 50, the next ten. There is no

:37:48.:37:55.

financial security. One month I might get eight, the next I might

:37:56.:38:01.

get 12, it is whatever I do. I am always asking for full`time hours

:38:02.:38:06.

but I have not had them. I have been working there for over two xears

:38:07.:38:15.

now. She has been doing a zdro hours contract. The same they do not

:38:16.:38:24.

clear. These are the shift `nd if you do not like it moved on. Could

:38:25.:38:32.

you look on? I am looking for work but I don't know, work is h`rd to

:38:33.:38:37.

come by, every job has loads of people applying for it. Young

:38:38.:38:42.

people, graduates come out `ll the time. I am a graduate myself by

:38:43.:38:46.

proper full`time workers hard to find. There were almost 583,000

:38:47.:38:55.

employees on zero hours contracts last year, more than double the

:38:56.:39:00.

government estimate. They h`ve grown so much that the consultation was

:39:01.:39:05.

launched into them were looking into exclusivity, contracts that can find

:39:06.:39:08.

people to working for only one employer and transparency. People

:39:09.:39:13.

not being told they may havd no work. Essex University is one of

:39:14.:39:21.

several throughout the region who employ people on zero hours. There

:39:22.:39:27.

are instances of people on zero hours contract year. Individuals

:39:28.:39:36.

have come to me on these contracts. Several other universities `lso use

:39:37.:39:44.

zero hours contracts but here at the University of Essex, bobble

:39:45.:39:46.

postgraduates that assist whth the gene may be on zero hours, they are

:39:47.:39:53.

adamant that lecturers are not. We never had a reason to use zdro hours

:39:54.:39:59.

for poor lecturing staff and I do not see us changing that pr`ctice.

:40:00.:40:09.

It is going all for the employer, what about the little man, what

:40:10.:40:15.

about me? Sheila had three lonths without any work last year `nd has

:40:16.:40:20.

to rely on her family to help out. It is hard, I just tell my kids to

:40:21.:40:28.

weeks ahead that this month my wages will be less so between thel they

:40:29.:40:34.

will be two or ?300 or one of them will pay the mortgage for md

:40:35.:40:38.

otherwise I would have lost the house. What do employers make of it?

:40:39.:40:47.

I have a spokesman from the Institute of directors. Flexibility

:40:48.:40:55.

for Sheila means unpredictability, she says she cannot pay the

:40:56.:41:01.

mortgage. That might be the case in an isolated example but flexibility

:41:02.:41:07.

means more jobs and zero hotrs contracts divide them for ydars with

:41:08.:41:12.

an opportunity. In the environment we have had recently where there

:41:13.:41:16.

have been difficult economic times they can actually provide jobs with

:41:17.:41:19.

the otherwise would not havd been able to. Will there be fewer of

:41:20.:41:28.

these contracts if they upttrned in the economy continues? I am

:41:29.:41:32.

uncomfortable with the general rhetoric around zero our contracts.

:41:33.:41:39.

I speak to a lot of businesses and business leaders. Things th`t

:41:40.:41:45.

concern them are how do thex pay suppliers? They are not setting out

:41:46.:41:51.

to get their employee a hard time, these contracts have them the

:41:52.:41:55.

opportunity to provide work were otherwise they would not have been

:41:56.:42:00.

able to do that. They have not invented them. As the econoly

:42:01.:42:05.

improves there may be fewer of them. Do you agree that often the ball is

:42:06.:42:12.

in the employer's court. Th`t does not suit people, they need lore

:42:13.:42:18.

protection and stability. I do not think that isn't highly fair. You

:42:19.:42:23.

need to see the flexibility from the point of view of the worker as well.

:42:24.:42:28.

People have the opportunity to work around their lives as well `s the

:42:29.:42:32.

employer having flexibility and being able to offer work were the

:42:33.:42:36.

otherwise would not be able to. There is a point around burdensome

:42:37.:42:42.

legislation and red tape, it is all very well talking about verx large

:42:43.:42:47.

companies but think about slaller employers. A business with only up

:42:48.:42:52.

to six members of staff in the team it is the big decision to t`ke

:42:53.:42:57.

another member of staff on. Without the flexibility of these

:42:58.:43:01.

arrangements they could not take anyone on. I can`macro what do you

:43:02.:43:07.

say`macro to Unison who talk about workers being held to ransol and not

:43:08.:43:15.

getting the work protection they deserve? That is very strong

:43:16.:43:20.

language and the sort of rhdtoric I am talking about. Most employers are

:43:21.:43:24.

simply trying to make a livhng, to generate wealth and pay taxds. That

:43:25.:43:34.

is what is fuelling the govdrnment. We will come back to you shortly.

:43:35.:43:40.

Sheila in the film, evidencd of public sector jobs moving into the

:43:41.:43:45.

private sector. These are the kinds of jobs your government is creating,

:43:46.:43:50.

they do not always exist? The rise of zero our contracts giving

:43:51.:43:55.

employers and read it need not otherwise exist. I would expect and

:43:56.:44:02.

hope that more permanent jobs or part`time jobs with fixed hours and

:44:03.:44:08.

predictability, those kind of jobs will be treated as the recovery

:44:09.:44:14.

takes hold. I think the zero hours increase is hugely a function of

:44:15.:44:18.

this located climate patterns because of the 2008/9 crash. RDB

:44:19.:44:31.

will jobs? Of course they are. `` are the real jobs. It is pahd work,

:44:32.:44:45.

it is a good thing. As the recovery takes old I think we will gdt more

:44:46.:44:51.

conversion into permanent jobs. It is not good enough to say`m`cro

:44:52.:44:55.

these deliver flexibility for the void. Look at the instability we

:44:56.:45:02.

heard in your film. If you do not know whether you will be working two

:45:03.:45:08.

hours or 50 hours, how do you manage your childcare and bells? A job is

:45:09.:45:20.

better than no job at all. Hf we had a benefit system that could cope

:45:21.:45:25.

with these sort of rapid ch`nges it would help a bit but we need

:45:26.:45:31.

well`trained employees in this region to be in a good job. Do these

:45:32.:45:41.

contracts need scrapping? I would like to ban them, they are not good

:45:42.:45:45.

for the economy or the individuals who are victims of them. Th`t is

:45:46.:45:51.

completely wrong. We cannot sit here and pretend we are not in a global

:45:52.:45:57.

competition. To pretend these contracts can just be banned is

:45:58.:46:08.

ridiculous. Global competithon is not fuelled by low skilled jobs

:46:09.:46:17.

What about Jim who we saw in the film who said the whole expdrience

:46:18.:46:22.

in total is putting him off of looking for work, he feels he may be

:46:23.:46:28.

better off in benefits. I do not think that is the reality of what

:46:29.:46:34.

the government would like to see. A life on benefits is good for nobody,

:46:35.:46:39.

not least the individual who thinks that way. Any work is better than a

:46:40.:46:45.

life of dependency and that is the whole thrust of government reform.

:46:46.:46:50.

That is sensible and we shotld not apologise for that. Not if ht

:46:51.:47:02.

disrupts family life. Teachhng assistants, people who work in our

:47:03.:47:05.

schools, they should have proper jobs with proper hours. Now, onto

:47:06.:47:16.

this week's Budget. Last wedk on the programme we were talking about a

:47:17.:47:20.

city deal for Cambridge which has got the go`ahead. There could be

:47:21.:47:26.

?500 million in investment over the next 20 years supporting more

:47:27.:47:33.

housing, jobs and transport. One MP wanted more money for potholes, the

:47:34.:47:40.

Chancellor promised 200 million across the country of which 16 comes

:47:41.:47:48.

to the east. There will be lore money for repairing flood ddfences.

:47:49.:47:54.

140 million across the country. In bingo, a victory for the Cardinal

:47:55.:48:00.

MP, he already persuaded thd Chancellor to cut and freezd fuel

:48:01.:48:06.

duty. On bingo he wanted thd tax to be cut from 20% to 15%. Bingo duty

:48:07.:48:25.

will be half to 10% to protdct jobs. We caught up with them for ` more

:48:26.:48:31.

considered verdict. This is again for working people, it is rdally

:48:32.:48:37.

good news, I am really excited. Fuel duty frozen again. I would say`macro

:48:38.:48:46.

visit the worker 's budget for working people. I would likd them to

:48:47.:48:52.

have at least it has been frozen. In tax terms fuel by the end of the

:48:53.:48:59.

year will be 20% cheaper th`n it would have been otherwise. Ht is

:49:00.:49:04.

great news for hard`pressed motorists as well. I literally

:49:05.:49:13.

listen to my local residents. They contact me by the day with lany

:49:14.:49:19.

hundreds of e`mails. I am a campaigning MP, I love to c`mpaign

:49:20.:49:24.

on things, I am here to represent my constituency. I got fuel letters

:49:25.:49:29.

almost every day and it is ly duty as an MP to work hard for mx

:49:30.:49:35.

constituents. You seem to phck issues that chime with the public.

:49:36.:49:41.

It is issues that the public right to me about or come to talk with me

:49:42.:49:47.

about in surgeries. It means the a lot of jobs and the new club not

:49:48.:49:54.

just in Harlow but across the country. I have to reflect what our

:49:55.:49:59.

residents are seeing. I would like to consider to focus on helping the

:50:00.:50:05.

lower paid. In next year's budget the government will raise the

:50:06.:50:10.

national insurance threshold. The government said today they would

:50:11.:50:14.

raise the threshold of incole tax. 25 million lower earners will be

:50:15.:50:19.

better off which is great ndws in tax terms. Still these people on

:50:20.:50:24.

lower earnings are being national insurance tax and I would lhke the

:50:25.:50:30.

government to raise that. Cttting bingo duty, freezing fuel dtty, he

:50:31.:50:37.

is stealing the thunder of labour, is he not? It is still a bedr and

:50:38.:50:47.

bingo budget. Most families are ?1600 per year worse off. What about

:50:48.:50:54.

that MP in touch with his constituency? The live the cost of

:50:55.:51:01.

living crisis in the economx. What about your energy costs going up

:51:02.:51:08.

?300 per year? People are rdally struggling out there and do did not

:51:09.:51:13.

seem to be any acknowledgemdnt of that. I am pleased with the pothole

:51:14.:51:22.

budget, we need that. I havd asked the council to top that up further

:51:23.:51:26.

and start tackling the port`l crisis. If there's something you

:51:27.:51:35.

should be focusing on and not the battle against UKIP? I agred. It is

:51:36.:51:47.

also the personal allowance. If you are a basic rate taxpayer you are

:51:48.:51:53.

being ?800 this year at the start of the parliament. That is one of the

:51:54.:51:57.

big answers to the question about the cost of living. A plane crash of

:51:58.:52:04.

an economy left by the Labotr Party and for us, after four years, to be

:52:05.:52:11.

able to see you are paying 20p tax is saving every year and th`t is

:52:12.:52:20.

hugely important for working people. We don't just talk the talk, we

:52:21.:52:29.

deliver. Income tax has been cut. 24 new taxes is not really helping

:52:30.:52:39.

people. Stick to income tax and the serious stuff. To rebrand the

:52:40.:52:48.

Conservatives as the workers party, that is dangerous or Labour, isn't

:52:49.:52:55.

it? You have those who make steady your types around working pdople

:52:56.:53:05.

that the drink beer and plax bingo. Why don't we talk about the issues

:53:06.:53:11.

that you are ?800 per year better off in income tax terms if xou are a

:53:12.:53:24.

20p taxpayer? Not if you take into account everything else, falilies

:53:25.:53:28.

are worse off. Like macro and here's a round`up in 60 seconds. A bad

:53:29.:53:44.

start to the week for UKIP. The Parliamentary candidate for Great

:53:45.:53:47.

Yarmouth will appear in court charged with electoral fraud. 5 0

:53:48.:53:55.

plus jobs will go in Corby. It is a difficult time for those workers and

:53:56.:53:58.

their families but there ard jobs being created locally and wd need to

:53:59.:54:03.

support people into those. The decision to close one prison. The

:54:04.:54:09.

Independent monitoring board said it had been a massive waste of

:54:10.:54:14.

taxpayers money. 10 million was spent doing the very things they

:54:15.:54:20.

said they could not afford to do. And the Lib Dem MP for Cambridge

:54:21.:54:26.

accused the Tories of stealhng their policy on raising the incomd tax

:54:27.:54:32.

threshold. He always brings the house together in his usual way

:54:33.:54:38.

What I am sure we can agree on is that it has been an excellent move

:54:39.:54:43.

by a Conservative Chancellor in a coalition government. Sharon Taylor,

:54:44.:54:51.

we saw a glimpse of the bear pit the Commons can be from time to time, do

:54:52.:54:56.

you relish the prospect of joining that atmosphere? I think it is

:54:57.:55:03.

something that puts lots of people off. I really believe in wh`t I am

:55:04.:55:08.

trying to do in Thames of t`king the values that I have had all ly life

:55:09.:55:14.

into politics. I think all that shouting and laughing at each other

:55:15.:55:19.

does put people off, the cltb atmosphere. We need to have more

:55:20.:55:25.

serious debates around the hssues. I do not mind a bit of banter but it

:55:26.:55:33.

does get beyond a joke. Is he right to say it was the Lib Dem policy

:55:34.:55:41.

stolen by the Conservatives? We can all celebrate it. I would only hope

:55:42.:55:46.

the Labour Party in parliamdnt would give us credit for these reductions

:55:47.:55:52.

in income tax. What about the heckling, do you wince or enjoy yet?

:55:53.:55:59.

I think the women, the female candidates who get elected, many of

:56:00.:56:04.

them are friends of mine, they do not complain. It is not quite as bad

:56:05.:56:09.

as it works. If you have solething to say you stand up and spe`k out

:56:10.:56:15.

and people will respond. With more women there it might be a bdtter

:56:16.:56:17.

place. Thank you, you can decision, she will weigh up the

:56:18.:56:23.

The big news is the popular server is struggling to control all of the

:56:24.:56:39.

people who want to find out where they fit in the political spectrum.

:56:40.:56:44.

It hasn't quite crashed but it is queueing up those people. Who would

:56:45.:56:49.

have thought the Sunday Politics had so many viewers? It has never

:56:50.:56:59.

happened on the X factor. This morning's papers don't make

:57:00.:57:01.

comfortable reading for Labour with two separate polls showing the

:57:02.:57:04.

party's lead over the Tories is down to just one point. And there's been

:57:05.:57:07.

plenty of criticism of Ed Miliband's response to the Budget. Let's take a

:57:08.:57:11.

look. You know you are in trouble when even the Education Secretary

:57:12.:57:14.

calls you and out of touch bunch of elitist. Where is he? He is hiding!

:57:15.:57:26.

I think he has been consigned to the naughty step by the Prime Minister.

:57:27.:57:33.

The naughty step! And we're joined now by shadow chief secretary to the

:57:34.:57:38.

Treasury, Chris Leslie. There was a widely criticised response by Ed

:57:39.:57:42.

Balls to the Autumn Statement, now a widely criticised response by Ed

:57:43.:57:48.

Miliband to the Budget. Does this show you are struggling at the

:57:49.:57:54.

moment? Of course Ed Balls and Ed Miliband don't want to hear the fact

:57:55.:58:00.

that in reality, for most people, life is getting harder and there is

:58:01.:58:04.

the cost of living crisis. Did we get any mention of that in the

:58:05.:58:13.

Budget? Of course we didn't. We were waiting for action on the cost of

:58:14.:58:17.

living and it wasn't forthcoming. Ed Miliband came up with the tactic of

:58:18.:58:22.

responding to the Budget without mentioning anything that was in it.

:58:23.:58:27.

He mentioned the fact the personal tax allowance was a bit of a

:58:28.:58:31.

giveaway but he takes more with the other hand. He is in favour of that,

:58:32.:58:38.

right? Anything we can get but we need a lot more. Let

:58:39.:58:41.

right? Anything we can get but we something else he mentioned, the

:58:42.:58:49.

fact the national debt has risen by a third and George Osborne and David

:58:50.:58:52.

Cameron... They knew that before the Budget. The borrowing figures were

:58:53.:58:57.

announced and Ed Miliband made reference to those. There is not a

:58:58.:59:02.

lot of happiness on Labour backbenchers about this, is there?

:59:03.:59:08.

And indeed not a lot of happiness in the shadow cabinet. There is concern

:59:09.:59:14.

that Ed Miliband is on a journey to remodel world capitalism whilst

:59:15.:59:17.

George Osborne is firing some love bombs at Middle England by talking

:59:18.:59:21.

about freeing up the pensions market and there is real nerves that what

:59:22.:59:25.

Ed Miliband is saying is not going to be in tune with those middle

:59:26.:59:31.

income earners that the Labour Party has got to attract if they are going

:59:32.:59:37.

to win the general election. When Rachel Reeves used the medium of

:59:38.:59:43.

Radio 4 to announce you were broadly in favour of the pension reforms

:59:44.:59:46.

announced by the Chancellor on Friday night, was that a result of a

:59:47.:59:51.

decision taken by the shadow cabinet? Is With annuities, they are

:59:52.:00:05.

a very old-fashioned product. There are some serious questions which

:00:06.:00:11.

need to be addressed. Was that the result of a Shadow Cabinet

:00:12.:00:16.

decision? We have not had a Shadow Cabinet since the budget. We all

:00:17.:00:20.

want to make sure that we understand the point about flexibility. No one

:00:21.:00:25.

is arguing with that. There are some serious concerns. Let me give you a

:00:26.:00:30.

couple of examples. This is something the Chancellor has done,

:00:31.:00:34.

he claims, for reasons of freedom and flexibility. Is it a coincidence

:00:35.:00:38.

he is grabbing quite a lot of tax from pensioners early on to plug a

:00:39.:00:46.

hole which is necessary because the deficit has not gone down? Forgive

:00:47.:00:48.

me for being slightly cynical about motives. For or against it? We need

:00:49.:00:55.

to have safeguards for protection of pensioners. What will it do for the

:00:56.:00:59.

annuity market if most people still want to have a steadying come for a

:01:00.:01:07.

third of their lives? -- steady income. What does Labour have to do

:01:08.:01:13.

to get it show back on the road The question is, how do people feel How

:01:14.:01:20.

many people will still not be feeling better by the next election?

:01:21.:01:24.

Wages may be rising slightly but not for a large and significant number

:01:25.:01:28.

of people. They were just looking at the YouGov poll. If you look at the

:01:29.:01:33.

middle to low earners, they are overwhelmingly pro-labour. Can

:01:34.:01:38.

Labour get those people out to vote? They are really hurting. There are

:01:39.:01:42.

plenty of them. The question is whether people are optimistic

:01:43.:01:45.

because they see figures as if they look as if they are on the up or

:01:46.:01:50.

whether they vote according to how they feel, which will still be very

:01:51.:01:56.

far behind. Cost of living has been a major mantra from Labour. That's

:01:57.:02:00.

that this chart shows how things are beginning to change. What this shows

:02:01.:02:05.

is that, sometime this year, after a long time at which average earnings

:02:06.:02:11.

trailed inflation, they now overtake it in the run-up to the election and

:02:12.:02:14.

they stay there for the forecast period. What do you now do if your

:02:15.:02:23.

cost of living mantra is running out of steam? I am not sure that, for

:02:24.:02:28.

most people, they will recognise the sense that suddenly things will be

:02:29.:02:31.

getting better. Particularly the younger generation are really

:02:32.:02:38.

feeling quite down about the pressures they are facing to make

:02:39.:02:44.

ends meet. You can see the lines are exaggerated because the Y axis on

:02:45.:02:48.

the side starts quite high up. It does not start at zero. The other

:02:49.:02:53.

statistic from the OBR is that we will not be getting back to the

:02:54.:02:58.

point where wages are exceeding prices from the pre-banking crisis

:02:59.:03:06.

period until late 2017. There are some really serious pressures that

:03:07.:03:08.

people are under. What they wanted was a budget that would address

:03:09.:03:14.

concerns and, for the vast majority of people, they will have heard the

:03:15.:03:20.

statement by George Osborne and think, how is it really help them

:03:21.:03:27.

now? It did not address it. It is clear that by 2015, average living

:03:28.:03:31.

standards will probably not have returned to where they were in

:03:32.:03:37.

2010. Average wages will not have done that. On the other hand, the

:03:38.:03:40.

chart shows the sense of direction is moving in the right way. Which

:03:41.:03:46.

one matters more with the electorate? I suspect it is sense of

:03:47.:03:51.

direction. People sense of prosperity does not need to be

:03:52.:03:55.

buoyant. It has to be something worth preserving. We have to fear

:03:56.:04:01.

the all turn. That is what intrigued me this week. People make too much

:04:02.:04:06.

of a fuss about the Parliamentary response by Ed Miliband. People will

:04:07.:04:09.

forgive a bad day at the dispatch box. What they will not forgive is

:04:10.:04:15.

the absence of a macro economic mess. Labour have a very powerful

:04:16.:04:21.

message on living standards and lots of popular, targeted interventions

:04:22.:04:26.

like the energy price freeze. You can imagine they will be

:04:27.:04:31.

sufficiently nervous about that next year. If living standards are not

:04:32.:04:41.

back to where they were, Labour can say, are you better off now than

:04:42.:04:46.

when you were four years ago? The reason why break and -- wallowed

:04:47.:04:57.

waken one that is because Jimmy Carter mucked it up -- Ronald

:04:58.:05:09.

Reagan. Labour have to say, vote for us and you will get 2 million homes.

:05:10.:05:14.

At the moment, the offer is very modest. You need to find the money

:05:15.:05:17.

to do that. People need to understand that housing is at the

:05:18.:05:21.

very heart of the economy, as well as young people and their

:05:22.:05:26.

aspirations. At the moment, Labour 's offer is not spectacular in. If

:05:27.:05:32.

the focus group shows the cost of living crisis have no longer has the

:05:33.:05:37.

attraction it did, what line do you move onto? Yellow McCoy must remind

:05:38.:05:40.

people of the wasted years and the cost of living pressures they have

:05:41.:05:47.

been under. -- we must remind people. We want a recovery which has

:05:48.:05:55.

low growth, low wage. A race to the bottom. They want a recovery that is

:05:56.:06:02.

felt by everyone, shared and felt by all. Now, here's an idea to twist

:06:03.:06:07.

your melon. Mark Berry, better known as Bez, it says here he's a member

:06:08.:06:10.

of something called The Happy Mondays, wants to stand for

:06:11.:06:13.

parliament. He's best known for being in a band, and not doing very

:06:14.:06:20.

much, so he might fit in. Here he is in action.

:06:21.:06:36.

And Bez joins us from our Salford studio. Good to see you. Is this a

:06:37.:06:49.

genuine candidacy or are you twisting my melon? Amazing how time

:06:50.:07:01.

flies when you're having fun! You having fun doing this candidacy I

:07:02.:07:07.

am doing the job of the politicians and standing up for the people and

:07:08.:07:12.

bringing attention to the horror of fracking, which is a totally unsafe

:07:13.:07:17.

technology. There is no one in mainstream politics who is

:07:18.:07:21.

discussing or saying anything about it. It is an unsafe technology and

:07:22.:07:28.

it has been proven in America. You see the process in America and the

:07:29.:07:36.

people out on the streets. The whole atmosphere has been made toxic.

:07:37.:07:41.

These people are allowing it to happen in the name of profit. This

:07:42.:07:47.

has been a Labour seat you are fighting in Salford since 1945. It

:07:48.:07:52.

is a tough mountain. Supposing you were to win, could you ever see

:07:53.:07:58.

yourself entering a coalition? With a bit of luck I may be able to shame

:07:59.:08:04.

Labour politicians to do the job properly and stand up for the rights

:08:05.:08:07.

of people. They are not and I am having to do that job. All I am

:08:08.:08:13.

doing is causing debate and bringing to attention the horror that is

:08:14.:08:17.

hanging on our doorsteps. It is not only fracking but GM modified foods

:08:18.:08:21.

that they want to bring into this country as well. Owen Paterson is

:08:22.:08:30.

one of the main lobbyists. Lobbying is legalised bribery, by the way. It

:08:31.:08:36.

is run by the bankers. Basically, we have to stop these monsters from

:08:37.:08:41.

getting into our country and turning our land into a toxic waste. That is

:08:42.:08:46.

what I am trying to say. You are raising the debate, as you are doing

:08:47.:08:52.

with us here. We do not really need fracking. You have done that and you

:08:53.:08:56.

have talked about other things as well. In terms of a new integrity,

:08:57.:09:02.

if you were to become an MP, would you claim expenses? If I ever do get

:09:03.:09:08.

in charge, I would completely enter the banking

:09:09.:09:09.

in charge, I would completely enter be expensive, but they would be like

:09:10.:09:15.

bus passes and train passes. You behave like the people and you are

:09:16.:09:19.

in touch with the people, you move with the people and do understand

:09:20.:09:24.

what the people want. You do not live in acre Kuhn of your own making

:09:25.:09:28.

of luxury, wealth and total disregard of everyone else. -- a

:09:29.:09:36.

cocoon. If you did get into the Palace of Westminster and had to

:09:37.:09:39.

mingle with all these people, who would you rather have in night out

:09:40.:09:45.

with - Mr Cameron, Mr Miller band or Mr Clegg? I would be willing to

:09:46.:09:54.

discuss politics with anybody. I would make them realise what they

:09:55.:10:03.

are doing. I am glad too have a debate and with anyone. The people

:10:04.:10:09.

of Salford, quite a lot people people behind me. I have been

:10:10.:10:15.

speaking to Salford councillors They are going to lend me their

:10:16.:10:24.

support. The people of Salford, and not to forget the people of Eccles,

:10:25.:10:29.

sending you much. We must stop this horror. There is a monster on our

:10:30.:10:34.

doorstep and we must stop it, people. Do not forget to take your

:10:35.:10:40.

maracas on campaign trail. Would you like a pair to shake yourself? You

:10:41.:10:48.

shake your maracas against fracking! Thanks, Bez, goodbye. Thank you for

:10:49.:10:54.

giving me a little platform to express my views. Now if there's one

:10:55.:11:01.

thing that gets us hot under the collar here at the Sunday Politics

:11:02.:11:03.

it's European elections. The only thing we like more than the

:11:04.:11:07.

elections themselves is a TV debate about them. And we're in luck! Take

:11:08.:11:11.

a look at this. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome leader of

:11:12.:11:15.

the Liberal Democrats and Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg. Gives

:11:16.:11:22.

the most fantastic welcome to Nigel Farage. I would challenge Nigel

:11:23.:11:30.

Farage to a public, open debate about whether she we should be out

:11:31.:11:37.

all in of the European Union. I will do it for Nick Clegg. Since 200 ,

:11:38.:11:47.

all in of the European Union. I will have taken part in 45% of votes in

:11:48.:11:53.

the European Parliament. Nigel Farage has not tabled a single

:11:54.:12:00.

amendment since July 2009. Mr Clegg has only taken part in 22% of votes

:12:01.:12:05.

in the House of commons. You can watch the debate at 7pm on the nd

:12:06.:12:21.

of April over on BBC Two. And for a chance to be part of the studio

:12:22.:12:24.

audience on the night and put your question to the two party leaders,

:12:25.:12:27.

e-mail the question you'd like to ask to [email protected] or

:12:28.:12:29.

tweet it using the hashtag #europedebate. And Nick Clegg and

:12:30.:12:32.

Nigel Farage will be limbering up this week with their first debate on

:12:33.:12:37.

LBC radio on Wednesday. Who is going to come out the best? I suspect

:12:38.:12:46.

Nigel Farage. It is easy to portray Nick Clegg as morally compromised,

:12:47.:12:49.

who has not asserted himself in government. I do wonder about Nigel

:12:50.:12:55.

Farage, whether he is much better at delivering a popular line and

:12:56.:13:00.

responding to the second question of third question. Nick Clegg will win

:13:01.:13:04.

it hands over fist because he knows this stuff. He is right. The

:13:05.:13:09.

evidence that he can produce about what will happen if we pulled out of

:13:10.:13:13.

Europe will, I think, overwhelm Nigel Farage 's one-liners. They

:13:14.:13:20.

will both be winners because you will have the rare sight of the

:13:21.:13:27.

pro-European saying he likes the European Union. That is unlike

:13:28.:13:32.

Eurosceptics who tie themselves up in knots. 14 Nigel, one for Nick and

:13:33.:13:38.

one for both. There you go. Here is a mess, it is Janen Ganesh. That's

:13:39.:13:50.

all for today. The Daily Politics is on BBC Two at Lunchtime every day

:13:51.:13:54.

this week, I'll be back here next week with Energy Secretary Ed Davey.

:13:55.:13:57.

Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:58.:14:03.

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