08/06/2014 Sunday Politics East

David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers

over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.

And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.

We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live

Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?

David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist

But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?

Here's to the quarter of a million votes.

And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with

The unusual alliances are bding success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.

The unusual alliances are being formed in

Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?

And with me our panel of top political journalists,

who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee

and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme

This morning's political news is dominated

by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and

The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior

Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling

The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of

investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham

where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken

Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office

was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.

He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.

In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,

"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people

Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the

An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.

Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's

Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning,

this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.

There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,

which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.

There will be discipline in the Government.

The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.

The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s

put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.

Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she

has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael

Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during

13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an

act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website

and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of

conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a

leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a

vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In

the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.

She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is

interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse

differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is

tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.

Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the

politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is

deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but

replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in

ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that

ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the

Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with

Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick

Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and

criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the

Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is

fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What

separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The

view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic

extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is

criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour

government introduced to do with the previous Labour government

introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people

and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous

home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in

the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has

used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the

swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed

those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove

would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech

the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2011

Munich Security conference in 2 11 when the Prime Minister talked about

warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system

is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.

Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.

Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of

their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents

in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political

infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the

resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs

to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.

There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for

four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact

that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on

for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much

stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations

like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the

Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the

leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an

overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We

want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate

themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which

makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to

be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted

curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an

education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender

segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender

segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling

Where you have a state education system, which is about gender

equality between boys and girls, and equality between boys and girls and

there is an unofficial policy of gender segregation, that is

unacceptable. We should not be tarring communities with the same

brush in terms of radicalisation. We do want to see a successful,

multicultural education. Two years ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as

outstanding. Now it looks like tomorrow it is going into special

measures. What is it up to? I do think there is an issue for Ofsted

that you can go from outstanding to inadequate so quickly. That is why

we are asking for a new criteria to be introduced to look at a broad and

balanced curriculum. We have healthy sex and relationship education.

There is a real issue this morning as the BBC has been reporting on the

night for the Department of Education. We are hearing that some

of those involved in the schools were not allowed to open a free

school on security grounds. They were allowed to allow one of the

schools to be taken over as an academy. We have a lack of oversight

and accountability in schools within Birmingham. What the Labour Party

wants is a local director of school standards to make sure we challenge

underperformance and make sure we get in confronting Islamic extremism

when it was in power? I was speaking to Hazel blears and she was very

clear about the prevent programme which they rolled out when in

office. A very atomised and fragmented school system where every

school is looked at from behind a desk in Whitehall and he put that

together and you do have an increased risk of chances of

radicalisation. You have attacked Mr Gove for gross negligence. Was it

the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for gross negligence. We are dealing

with a government which has been in since 2010. The Government needs to

hold the executive to account. We note the Department Michael Gove was

warned by a senior and respected head teacher about fears over

radicalism. What did he know and what did he act upon? We are hearing

more reports of conversations about fears, about radicalisation, taking

over some of the governing bodies of schools. We need to know what

ministers did. Let me continue. You mention the capital to prevent

strategy. Was it gross negligence for Labour to regularly consult a

man who once headed a group dedicated to making Britain an

Islamic state and wrote a book about schools full of Taliban style

decrees. I think the events in Birmingham are enormously

significant. About the nature of multiculturalism, the nature of

education, the role of civic education, the role of faith

schools. I will say to you this morning that Birmingham City

Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party, the Department for Education were

all involved in this conversation. In 2010, ministers were warned about

potential radicalisation of schools and they fell to act. We need to

know why, for years on, they allowed this situation to exacerbate. When

you look at the record of labour and this government 's record, there are

plenty of examples where both of you fail to act. Would it not be better

to drop the party politics and get together to confront this problem

for the sake of the children? There are a number of reports going on in

Birmingham. Some are led by the city council, some by the Department for

Education. Labour MPs this morning have come forward with the Bishop of

Birmingham talking about faith in schools. If you have a minister

failing to do their job, if you have a minister being given warnings in

2010 and failing to act on them for four years, the opposition has a

role to hold the executive to account. This is about the safety

and standards of teaching for pupils in Birmingham schools. It is about a

great education for these young people so they can succeed in a

modern, multicultural Britain. Do you agree with your Shadow Cabinet

colleague, Rachel Reeves, that Labour' as core voters are

abandoning the party? She was building on what Ed said the day

after the elections in Berwick. We have to make sure those communities

who we historically represent regard Labour as having a successful

message for them. I am passionate about making sure we have great

vocational and technical education, the great academic education in our

schools. If we have more work to do to get people to the polling

booths, we must do that. We must with listen to what she says.

David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping the former PM of Luxembourg

- named by one newspaper as 'the most dangerous man in Europe'

because of his federalist views - from becoming the next president

Mr Cameron has reportedly described Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from

the 80s who cannot solve the problems of the next five years .

But with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr

Juncker, it's not a dead cert that Mr Cameron can stop his appointment.

This is what he had to say at the G7 summit earlier this week:

It is important that we have people running the institutions of Europe

who understand the need for change and reform. I would argue that view

is widely shared amongst other heads of government and heads of state in

the European Union. I am clear what I want to achieve for Britain's

future, to secure Britain's placed in a reformed European Union and I

have a strategy for delivering that, a strategy for dealing with an

issue which I think if we walk away from it would see Britain drift

towards the exits. We've been joined from Berlin

by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is a senior figure in the EPP - that's

the party backing Mr Juncker. He's also Chairman of the Union

of European Federalists. And in our Newcastle newsroom is

the former Conservative MEP Martin Callanan who until last month led

the European Conservatives and Reformists group in Brussels.

Welcome to you both. The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary,

they don't want Mr Junker, the new Italian Prime Minister doesn't look

keen either, should he bow out gracefully? First of all, he wants

to have Mr Junker but he wants to have his conditions. Will he become

president of the European Council, a high representative? It is a

discussion to be had in the next three or four weeks until the

European Parliament can elect the president of the European Council

after the proposal of the European Council, which has to be done after

consultation with the Parliament in the light of the European elections

and by a majority vote. If not Mr Junker, then who? There are many

available candidates, I am not going to mention them in front of someone

so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us one name that you would prefer? The

prime Minister of Sweden, Christine Lagarde, the minister from

Lithuania, these are people who have a record of old reform. Junker is

the ultimate Europe insider. We need radical inform. We need to respond

to the message the electorate gave us in the elections -- radical

reform. Junker said he had to lie in public, he allowed the security

services to conduct a dirty tricks campaign against his opponent. This

is not who we want leading the European Commission. Elmar Brok,

European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent

a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status

quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?

First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks

against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man

who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro

group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the

financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible

financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who

works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in

Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government. But

European Union, less government But we need Europe more and he is not a

man from the 80s. He is a man of this century and in this century he

made his own policy. He is the winner of the European elections, he

has a majority will stop Mrs LANguard is not running because she

knows she will not get the majority in the European Parliament. --

Christine Lagarde is not running. It is the Council of minister is that

decides. No, the European Parliament has the final word. The European

Council can make a proposal by majority in the light of the

European elections after consultation with the European

Parliament. The council cannot get a candidate against the will of the

European Parliament. Mr Junker has a majority in the European Parliament.

Theoretically he is right, the Parliament has do vote on the

candidates proposed by the council. I want to challenge the view that

somehow he won the European elections. There is no provision for

Jean Claude Junker to stand in the elections. He is saying that the EEP

party got the most number of seats in the Parliament but none of the

electorate knew they were taking part in this election. How many

people who voted Labour in the United Kingdom realised that their

vote would count towards a German socialist to be a candidate for the

commission of presidency is a nonsensical proposal. The elections

were 28 individual elections with hundreds of parties across Europe.

To try to claim there is a democratic mandate for somebody

nobody has heard from Luxembourg to take over the commission is a

nonsense. People should know him, if I should say that ironically.

Newspapers talking about members of the family of his wife with Nazi

links... What is the answer to Martin Callinan's point? I think it

is clear that British Conservatives have no candidate because they are

not a broad European family, they have not impacted on the selection

of top candidates but it is a form of isolation of the British Tory

Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr Junker is appointed it could lead to

Britain drifting towards the EU exit, is that credible? Is it

melodramatic? It is true that we want to renegotiate the

relationship. We want some serious reform in Europe so the people who

vote in a referendum will be able to vote to stay in if that is what they

want. We need a bold reformer, somebody prepared to engage. That is

not anti the interests of the UK. We need to recognise there is a problem

with public perception of the European Union. Elmar Brok is proud

to be one of the last bastions of federalism that that is not where

most of the public opinion is in Europe. I understand why he wants

his man installed but we need to take into account the message of the

letter -- the electorate. 25% of the publishing of France were prepared

to vote for an openly racist party. We can't just ignore the signal that

the electorate were sending us. If enthusiasm for federalism was at an

all-time low, it would be a slap in the face for the voters of Europe to

have a federalist as the president, would it not? 70, 80% of the members

of the European Parliament, selected by their people, are pro-Europeans.

These are the winners of the European elections. Even in France,

a majority of voters have voted pro-European and that should be

clear, not to make this a populist thing which is not only to do