Browse content similar to 06/07/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Up to a million public sector workers will strike this week. | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
It's one of the biggest walk-outs since 201 . | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
The country's top trade unionist Frances O'Grady and | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
Tory Business Minister Matt Hancock go head-to-head. | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
The Tour de France seems to have cheered him up - just as well | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
for the Deputy Prime Minister hasn't got much else to smile about. | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
Nick Clegg joins me live from Sheffield to discuss the | :00:59. | :01:00. | |
Just over ten weeks until Scotland determines its future. | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
The man leading the campaign AGAINST independence, Alistair Darling, | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
In hearing the east, new session for MPs. | :01:11. | :01:30. | |
And with me throughout the show three top-flight political | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
journalists always ahead of the peleton - Nick Watt, | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
They'll be tweeting faster than Tour de France cyclists can pedal. | :01:38. | :01:51. | |
The news is dominated this morning by stories swirling | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
around allegations of an historic Westminster paedophile ring. | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
Concern has grown because of the disappearance of a dossier | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
handed over to the Home Office in 1983, along with over 100 official | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
files related to it and possibly containing details of historic child | :02:02. | :02:03. | |
Labour is calling for a public inquiry led by a child protection | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
But speaking earlier on The Andrew Marr Show this morning | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
the Education Secretary Michael Gove ruled that out. | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
The most important thing that we need to do is ensure that the due | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
process of law pursues those who may be guilty of individual crimes and | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
we also learn lessons about what may or may not have gone wrong in the | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
past, but it is also important to emphasise that many of the | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
allegations that are being made are historic. And what we do now in | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
order to keep children safer is better and stronger than was the | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
case when 20 or 30 years ago. Without getting into a boring | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
tit-for-tat, public inquiry, "yes" or "no"? No. Helen, can the | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
Government go on resisting calls for a full-scale inquiry? It is very | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
hard. There are cynical and non-cynical reasons for calling for | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
an inquiry. The cynical one allows you to say I can't comment on this. | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
The non-cynical is it manages to get people to air allegations in a way | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
that is safe. What we saw at the Leveson Inquiry was helpful, people | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
who felt they had been shut out from justice getting a chance to tell | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
their side of the story. A public inquiry in this case is a good idea. | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
Labour have called for a lot of public inquiries. A list was made in | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
2012 of how many they called for. Not only Savile, but the West Coast | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
Main Line and breast implants. On this particular issue, the people | :03:35. | :03:36. | |
don't trust the politicians, they don't trust the police either | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
because they may have been complicit in a cover-up. They may not trust | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
the Home Office who we are told some of their officials were mentioned in | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
the dossier? That is what David Cameron is hanging on to. This is a | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
matter now because they are alleged criminal activity, it is for the | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
police to investigate. In that big piece in the Sunday Times, Tim | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
Shipman reports one of the people making the allegations lives in the | :04:03. | :04:03. | |
United States making the allegations lives in the | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
been out to the United States to interview him. The Prime Minister | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
would say that is how serious the police are taking it. The problem | :04:10. | :04:09. | |
for the Prime Minister - he police are taking it. The problem | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
allergic to big public inquiry. His finest moment was his response to | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
the Bloody Sunday inquiry shortly after he became Prime | :04:21. | :04:20. | |
inrequest -- that inquiry took 2 years to report. The problem is the | :04:21. | :04:34. | |
dossier has gone missing, the files have gone missing, more allegations | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
keep coming out either directly or indirectly. It doesn't look like it | :04:41. | :04:42. | |
is going to go away? The fact the dossiers are missing means it is | :04:43. | :04:50. | |
inappropriate for the Home Office to be investigating this. There is | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
inappropriate for the Home Office to a police investigation. If after | :04:55. | :04:54. | |
that, there are questions unanswered which can only be answered by | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
that, there are questions unanswered public inquiry, or which require | :05:03. | :05:02. | |
resources that can only be commanded by a public inquiry, I could see the | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
case for going down that road. I fear that sometimes in this country | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
we invest almost supernatural powers in what a public inquiry can do I | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
wonder whether there is another example of a country that goes | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
through this stale ritual every few years of a scandal emerging, the | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
opposition calling for an inquiry, the Government saying no and then | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
holding the line or giving in. I don't know what we think this | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
inquiries can do. It comes back to your point, Helen, you should be | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
careful what you call an inquiry on so it doesn't devalue the concept. | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
On Thursday up to a million public sector workers - including teachers, | :05:42. | :05:43. | |
firemen and council workers - will go on strike. | :05:44. | :05:45. | |
Their unions have differing gripes but the fact they're all striking | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
on the same day is designed to send a strong message to the government. | :05:49. | :05:50. | |
As the economy picks up again they're demanding an end | :05:51. | :05:52. | |
Growth has returned strongly to the UK economy | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
and unemployment is at its lowest level for more than five years. | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
So why is there still talk of austerity | :06:03. | :06:04. | |
The deficit is coming down but much more slowly than the government | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
And accumulated deficits - the national debt - | :06:10. | :06:16. | |
The UK is now in hock to the tune of ?1.3 trillion - and rising. | :06:17. | :06:25. | |
In fact, we're only 40% of the way through George Osborne's planned | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
austerity, with the chancellor now saying he won't manage to balance | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
Unions are now rebelling against tight pay controls. | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
Since 2010, average public sector pay, which goes to about 1 in 5 | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
Over the same period, prices increased by 16% - | :06:42. | :06:49. | |
meaning the average public sector worker saw their pay squeezed | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
Going head-to-head on the public sector strikes and austerity - | :06:53. | :07:00. | |
the general secretary of the TUC Frances O'Grady, and Conservative | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
We have seen it, public sector pay squeezed by 9% under the Coalition | :07:04. | :07:23. | |
Government. Isn't it time to take your foot off the brake a bit? I | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
don't think it is the right time to let go of the public finances at | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
all. We were always clear that this is what's called a structural | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
deficit, it doesn't go away just because the growth is returning and | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
the economy is coming back. We have protected and are protecting the | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
lowest paid public sector workers who weren't part of the pay freeze | :07:47. | :07:53. | |
and now pay going up by 1%. These are difficult decisions. We have had | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
that discussion many times. They are necessary in order to keep that plan | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
on track and as we can see in the wider economy, it is working. | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
People's living standards will have to continue to fall if you are in | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
the public sector? We need to keep public spending under control and | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
pay restraint is one of the main ways of being able... The answer is | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
yes? The answer is this is necessary. The answer is yes, this | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
is necessary. It isn't because we want to. We have to. This strike | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
isn't going to change the Government's mind, is it? It does | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
seem like the Government isn't listening. We have had years... They | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
are listening, they just don't agree. Ordinary people, including | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
those in the public sector, are finding it really tough. What really | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
sticks in the throat is the idea that money can be found to give tax | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
cuts to billionaires, to millionaires and to big | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
corporations. But it can't be found to help 500,000 workers in local | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
government, dinner ladies, school meal workers, lollipop men and women | :08:58. | :08:59. | |
who are earning less than the living wage. What do you say to that? We | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
have protected those who are the least well-paid in the public | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
sector. But this is about a long-term... How can you? Hold on. | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
You have said you have protected them. This involves ordinary people, | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
many watching this programme, they have had a 1% pay rise in some cases | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
since 2010. The average gas bill is up 57%, electric bill up 22%, food | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
costs up 16%, running a car 11% in what way have you protected people | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
from spending they have to make Firstly, you read out the average | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
increases in public sector pay. That has had the biggest impact at the | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
top end and those at the bottom end have been best protected, as best we | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
could. Of course, we have also taken two million people out of income tax | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
and increased the income tax threshold which has a big positive | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
impact. We have frozen and then cut fuel duty, which would have been 20 | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
pence higher. I wanted to take on this point about priorities. We have | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
got to make sure that we get the economy going at the same time and | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
we raised more money from those at the top than we did before 2010 | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
partly because we have encouraged them to invest. And this is a really | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
important balance of making sure we get the books back in order, we have | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
stability for family finances and we get the economy going. Why not | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
spread the living wage? We know you could pay for that pay increase | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
itself if you spread the living wage through the private sector and | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
guarantee... The living wage being above the minimum wage? Absolutely. | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
?7.65 in the rest of the country, ?8.80 in London. What is the answer? | :10:44. | :10:51. | |
I'm a fan of the minimum wage. But not for public sector workers. Being | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
able to pay low-paid workers as much as possible within the constraints | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
of the public finances is something I have pushed very hard. The | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
evidence we can increase the minimum wage has to be balanced which the | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
Low Pay Commission do with the impact on the number of jobs... Even | :11:10. | :11:17. | |
after a pay freeze for quite a while among public sector workers, they | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
are still paid 15% on average more than those in the private sector? | :11:23. | :11:31. | |
That is not true. It is, according to the ONS figures. I read that | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
report this morning. If you look at the whole package, what they are | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
saying is public service workers are worse off. Average earnings in the | :11:40. | :11:48. | |
public sector are ?16.28 an hour compared to ?14.16 private. You are | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
comparing apples and pears. It's the kind of jobs and the size of the | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
workplace that people work in. They are still overall on average better | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
off? Lower paid workers tend to be better off because unions negotiate | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
better deals for lower paid workers. They are more unionised in the pry | :12:09. | :12:16. | |
private sector. The public sector is worse off. This is a political | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
strike, isn't it? There is a whole disparate range of reasons. The | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
strike is saying that you are against this Government, that is | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
what this is about? I this I what firefighters, local government | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
workers and health workers who are protesting, too, alongside teachers | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
are saying is that this Government is not listening, it is out of | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
touch, people can't carry on having cuts in their living standards | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
depending on benefits. When will the public sector worker ever get a real | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
increase in their pay under a Conservative Government? Well, we | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
certainly hope to have the books balanced by 2018. Not before then? | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
2018 is when we hope to be able to be in surplus. It is testament. . | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
So, no real pay increase for public sector workers before 2018? | :13:06. | :13:14. | |
Interestingly, this isn't just about the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
the Labour Party leadership have said it is a test of their | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
credibility that they support the squeeze on public sector pay. I look | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
forward to them, they ought to come out and say very clearly that these | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
strikes are wrong and they are against the strikes and stop taking | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
union money. It is a democratic right. Hold on. They are - they | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
think the policy of pay restraint is necessary. Alright. On this point | :13:38. | :13:46. | |
about democracy... Ask yourself why so many ordinary decent public | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
service workers are so fed up. They have seen so many billions of pounds | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
wasted through outsourcing to organisations like G4 S. In Unite | :13:59. | :14:09. | |
and UNISON the turnout in this vote was under 20%. Alright. OK. One | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
final question... Hold on. You said millions and millions voted on | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
this... I want to ask you this question. Is the story in the Mail | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
on Sunday today that Mr Cameron s planning a big crackdown on the | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
unions over balloting, is that true? Well, strikes like this... I know | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
the cases, is it true you are going to dhang the law? Strikes like this | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
make that argument stronger. The Conservative Party is in Government | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
on the basis of 23% of the electorate... We have run out of | :14:43. | :14:44. | |
time. Thank you very much. "Should Scotland be | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
an independent country?" That's the question the people of | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
Scotland will answer in a referendum If the polls are to be believed | :14:52. | :14:53. | |
the voters will answer "no". But in 2011 - ten weeks before | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
the Holyrood elections - the polls told us that Labour was going to win | :14:58. | :14:59. | |
and look what happened there - a Alistair Darling is leading | :15:00. | :15:01. | |
the campaign against independnence. is one that puts the matter of | :15:02. | :15:24. | |
independence to bed for a generation. In numerical terms, what | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
would that be? We need a decisive result in September, I think we will | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
get that provided we get our arguments across in the next couple | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
of months. What would it be in figures? I am not going to put a | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
number on it. People will look at it and say, OK, you have had two and a | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
half years of debate and Scotland has now decided. The polls may be | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
encouraging at the moment but I am not complacent, there is still a | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
long way to go. Speculating... If you don't want to answer that, that | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
is fair enough. Your side claims that a vote for independence is a | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
vote for massive uncertainty but if it is a no vote there is lots of | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
uncertainty too. All of the Westminster parties are promising | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
devolution but there is no timetable, no certainty. Yes, there | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
is. For the first time I can remember, all three parties are more | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
or less on the same page in terms of additional powers, we already have | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
powers in terms of policing and transport, now more powers are | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
planned in relation to tax and welfare. But you are all saying | :16:45. | :16:52. | |
different things. Between 2009 and 2012, the three parties have | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
slightly different proposals but they came together and there was an | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
agreed series of reforms in relation to tax which are now on the statute | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
book. If you go back to the devolutionary settlement in 199 , | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
people unified around a single proposition so there is history here | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
and these three parties have delivered and they will deliver in | :17:18. | :17:20. | |
the event of people saying we will stay part of the UK. If Scotland | :17:21. | :17:27. | |
vote no to independence, when will Scotland get these extra powers I | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
would imagine that in the general election all three parties will have | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
something in their manifesto and you would expect to see legislation in | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
the session of Parliament that follows that. Imagining is not | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
certainty. Because the three parties have said this is what they will do, | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
and it is important having said that they stick to it. If you look in the | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
past when the Nationalists said the same thing, when they cast doubt | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
over what would happen in 2012, we delivered. The only party that | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
walked out of both of these discussions were the Nationalists | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
because they are not interested in more powers, they want a complete | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
break. You cannot say that if Edinburgh gets more devolution that | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
wouldn't mean fewer Scottish MPs in Westminster, can you? Nobody has any | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
plans to reduce the number of MPs. If you step back from this moment, | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
what people have been asked to do in September is to vote on the future | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
of their country, Scotland, and whether we should be part of the UK. | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
When I say part of the UK, full members of the UK with | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
representation in the House of Commons and the institutions that | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
affect our lives. This is a critically important vote. We want | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
to see more decentralisation of power to Scotland, and to local | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
authorities within Scotland, but we don't want a complete break with the | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
uncertainties, the risks and the downright disadvantages that would | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
throw Scotland's away if we were to make that break. The economic | :19:11. | :19:19. | |
arguments are dominating people s thinking, the polls show, that is | :19:20. | :19:38. | |
what is dominating at the moment. You cannot guarantee continued | :19:39. | :19:41. | |
membership of the European Union given all the talk now about an | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
in-out UK referendum. Firstly I don't think anyone has ever argued | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
Scotland wouldn't get back in. The big question is the terms and | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
conditions we would have to meet and we are applying to get into | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
something that is established, it wouldn't be a negotiation. What we | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
have said is there is no way Europe would let Scotland keep the rebate | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
which Scotland has, there would be big questions over whether we have | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
to join the euro, and other terms and conditions. The European Union | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
does not act with any great speed, on average it takes eight and a half | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
years to get into Europe. I don t want that uncertainty or the | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
disadvantages that would come Scotland's away that come with | :20:34. | :20:40. | |
losing clout in the European Union. The second point you asked me about | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
is in relation to the UK's membership of the European Union, | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
and if you look at polls, the majority of people still want to | :20:51. | :21:00. | |
stay in the UK. Frankly, a lot of people on my side didn't make the | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
argument against independence for a long time, we have been doing that | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
over the last two and a half years and we are making progress and that | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
is why I can say I think we will win provided we continue to get our | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
arguments across. Similarly with the European Union, the case needs to be | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
made because it is a powerful case. Isn't it true that the Nationalists | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
win either way? They win if it is a yes vote, and they win if it is a no | :21:33. | :21:40. | |
vote. They wanted devolution max so they win either way. There is a | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
world of difference between devolution and further devolution | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
where you remain part of the UK There is a world of difference | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
between that and making a break where Scotland becomes a foreign | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
country to the rest of the UK. You lose that security and those | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
opportunities. You lose the same currency, the opportunity with | :22:07. | :22:15. | |
pensions and so on. They are entitled to argue this case with | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
passion, they want a break, but the two things are worlds apart. Gordon | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
Brown said that the no campaign was too negative, have you adjusted to | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
take that criticism into account? Ever since I launched this campaign | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
over two years ago I said we would make a strong powerful case for | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
remaining part of the UK. Look at our research, where we have had | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
warnings from people to say that if we do well with research in Scotland | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
we get more than our population share of the grand and we gain from | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
that. There is a positive case but equally nobody will stop me from | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
saying to the Nationalists, look at the assertions you make which are | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
collapsing like skittles at the moment. Their assertions don't stand | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
up. They assert that somehow milk and honey will be flowing. It is | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
perfectly healthy within a referendum campaign to say that what | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
you are saying simply isn't true. You have been negative, we all know | :23:23. | :23:38. | |
about the so-called Cyber Nats book you compared Alex Salmond to the | :23:39. | :23:47. | |
leader of North Korea. On! The context was that Alex Salmond was | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
being asked why it was that UKIP had additional seat and he appeared to | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
blame television being been doing from another country, from BBC South | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
of the border. If you cannot have humour in a debate, heaven help us. | :24:05. | :24:13. | |
I think it is important in this debate that people from outside | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
politics should be allowed to have their say whatever side they are on | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
because that will make for a far better, healthier debate. Nobody | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
should be put in a state of fear and alarm by worrying about what will | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
happen if they stand up. Despite the nastiness, more and more people are | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
making a stand. We have run out of time. Thank you. | :24:38. | :24:45. | |
I will be talking to the SNP's hippity leader, Nicola Sturgeon | :24:46. | :24:53. | |
next week on Sunday Politics. Scotland: For Richer or Poorer will | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
be on BBC Two at 9pm tomorrow. Disastrous results in the European | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
elections, it is fair to say the Lib Dems are down in the doldrums. In a | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
moment I will be speaking to Nick Clegg, but first Emily has been | :25:09. | :25:17. | |
asking what Lib Dems would say to the Prime -- Deputy Prime Minister | :25:18. | :25:32. | |
on Call Clegg. Our phone in this week is the challenges facing the | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
Liberal Democrats. They are rock bottom in the polls and have dire | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
results in the local and European elections so what can the party do | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
to turn things around? Get in touch, we are going straight to line | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
one and Gareth. How much is a problem of that loss of local | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
support? It is a massive problem because those are the building | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
blocks of our success. The councillors who gets the case work | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
done are also the people who go out and deliver the leaflets and knock | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
on doors. Interesting, and it is not just local support the party has | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
lost, is it? In the next general election there are some big-name | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
Liberal Democrat MPs standing down like Malcolm Bruce and Ming | :26:22. | :26:30. | |
Campbell, how much of a problem will that be? That is a real challenge | :26:31. | :26:36. | |
and we have some of our brightest and best reaching an age of maturity | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
at the same moment so that is quite an additional test in what will be a | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
difficult election anyway. So how does the party need to position | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
itself to win back support? Let s go to Chris online free, has the party | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
got its strategy right? There is always a danger of appearing to be a | :26:58. | :27:06. | |
party that merely dilutes Labour or dilutes the Conservatives. We have a | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
of is serious, positive messages and we need to get those across in the | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
next election because if we don t people will vote for the Tories | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
Nick, what do you think of the party's message at the moment? I | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
have had a look at early draft of our manifesto and there is some good | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
stuff in there but the authors are probably too interested in what may | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
think we have achieved in the last five years and not really focusing | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
on what the voters will want to be hearing about the next five years. | :27:41. | :28:09. | |
Perhaps they should get out more and test some of these messages on the | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
doorstep. So you want to see the top ranks of the party on the doorstep. | :28:14. | :28:16. | |
Gareth online one also wants to make a point about the manifesto. There | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
is clearly a problem somewhere near the top and there are some people | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
who seem to be obsessed with power for power's sake, and happy with a | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
timid offer but the Liberal Democrats want to change things We | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
are running out of time so let's try to squeeze one more call in. What | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
are your thoughts on the long-term future of the party? I think serious | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
long-term danger is that the party could be relegated to the fringes of | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
the UK and no longer being a national party. We have gone back | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
decades if that happens because for many years we have been represented | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
in every part of the country at some level and we have got to rescue | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
ourselves from that. Some interesting views but we are going | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
to have to wait until the general election next year to find out how | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
well the Lib Dems face up to these challenges. Thanks for listening, we | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
are going to finish with an old classic now. | :29:14. | :29:15. | |
# I'm sorry, I'm sorry... #. Nick Clegg, welcome to the | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
programme. I want to come onto your situation in a minute but as you | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
will have seen in the papers, there is mounting concern over and | :29:23. | :29:24. | |
historic Westminster paedophile ring, and files relating to it | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
mysteriously disappearing. Why are you against a full public enquiry | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
into this? I wouldn't rule anything out. I think we should do anything | :29:32. | :29:40. | |
it takes to uncover this and achieve justice. | :29:41. | :29:56. | |
delivered, even all these many years later. How do you do it? There is an | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
inquiry in the Home Office about what's happened to these documents, | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
serious questions need to be asked about what happened in the Home | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
Office and those questions need to be answered. There are inquiries in | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
the BBC, in the NHS and most importantly of all the police are | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
looking into the places where this abuse was alleged to have taken | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
place. All I would say is, let's make sure that justice is delivered, | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
truth is uncovered and I think that the way to do that, as we have seen, | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
is by allowing the police to get on with their work. You say that, but | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
there are only seven police involved in this inquiry. There are 195 | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
involved in the hacking investigations. We can both agree | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
that child abuse is more important and serious than hacking. The Home | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
Office, there are reports that Home Office officials may have been | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
mentioned in the dossier, people don't trust people to investigate | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
themselves, Mr Clegg? No, I accept that we need to make sure that and | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
the police need to make sure that the police investigations are | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
thorough, well resourced. I can t think of anything more horrendous, I | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
can't, than powerful people organising themselves and worse | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
still, this is what is alleged, covering up for each other to abuse | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
the most vulnerable people in society's care - children. But at | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
the end of the day, the only way you can get people in the dock, the only | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
way you can get people charged, is by allowing the prosecuting | :31:30. | :31:31. | |
authorities and the police to do their job. I have an open mind about | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
what other inquiries take place A number of other inquiries are taking | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
place. I assume any additional inquiries wouldn't be able to second | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
guess or look into the matters which the police are looking into already. | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
All I would say is that people who have information, who want to | :31:49. | :31:50. | |
provide information which they think is relevant to this, please get in | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
touch with the police. Alright. Let's come on to our own inquiry | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
into the state of the Lib Dems. You have attempted to distance yourself | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
and the party from the Tories, but still stay in Government - it is | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
called aggressive differentiation. Why isn't it working? It's not | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
called aggressive differentiation. It is called "coalition". It is two | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
parties who retain different identities, different values, have | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
different aspirations for the future. But during this Parliament | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
have come together because we were facing a unique national emergency | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
back in 2010, the economy was teetering on the edge of a | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
precipice. I'm immensely proud, notwithstanding our political | :32:34. | :32:36. | |
challenges, which are real, I'm immensely proud that the Liberal | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
Democrats, we stepped up to the plate, held our nerve and without | :32:40. | :32:41. | |
the Liberal Democrats, there wouldn't now be that economic | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
recovery which is helping many people across the country. Why | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
aren't you getting any credit for it? Well, we won't get credit if we | :32:49. | :32:56. | |
spend all our time staring at our navals. If it wasn't for the Liberal | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
Democrats, there wouldn't be more jobs now available to people. They | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
don't believe you, they are giving the Tories the credit for the | :33:06. | :33:12. | |
recovery? Well, you might assert that, we will assert and I will | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
shout it from the rooftops that if we had not created the stability by | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
forming this Coalition Government and then hard-wired into the | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
Government's plans, not only the gory job of fixing the public | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
finances, but doing so much more fairly than would have been the | :33:29. | :33:31. | |
case, if the Conservatives had been in Government on their own, they | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
wouldn't have delivered these tax cuts. They wouldn't have delivered | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
the triple lock guarantee for pensions or the pupil premium. OK. | :33:41. | :33:47. | |
Why are you 8% in the polls? Well, because I think where we get our | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
message across - and I am here in my own constituency - this is a | :33:53. | :34:02. | |
constituency where I am a campaigning MP - we can dispel a lot | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
of the information and say we have done a decent thing by going into | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
Government and we have delivered big changes, big reforms which you can | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
touch and see in your school, in your pensions, in your taxes and | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
then people do support us and, in our areas of strength, we were | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
winning against both the Conservative and Labour parties It | :34:27. | :34:28. | |
is a big effort. Of course, there are lots of people from both left | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
and right who want to shout us down and want to vilify our role in | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
Government. What we also need to do - and Nick Harvey was quite right - | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
having been proud of our record of delivery, we also need to set out in | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
our manifesto as we are and as we will our promise of more, of more | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
support in schools. So why is it then... Why is it then that a Lib | :34:53. | :34:59. | |
Dem MP in our own film says you are in danger of no longer becoming a | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
National Party. That could be the Clegg legacy, you cease to be a | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
National Party? I'm a practical man. I believe passionately in what we | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
have done in politics. I am so proud of my party. I don't spend that much | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
time speculating that the end might be nigh. There is no point in doing | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
that. Let's get out there, which is what I do in my own constituency, in | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
challenges circumstances and say we are proud of what we have done, we | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
have done a good thing for the country, we have delivered more | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
Liberal Democrat policies than the party has ever dreamed delivering | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
before. We have a programme of change, of reform, of liberal | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
reform, which is very exciting. Just over the last few weeks, I have been | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
setting out our plans to provide more help to carers, to make sure | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
teachers in every classroom are properly qualified, that all kids in | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
school are being taught a proper core curriculum. That parts company | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
from the ideological rigidities with which the Conservatives deal with | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
education policy. Those are thing which speak to many of the values | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
that people who support us... Alright. When Mike Storey gets out | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
and about, he told this programme two weeks' ago that he finds that | :36:15. | :36:22. | |
you "are toxic on the doorstep" Look, as everybody knows, being the | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
leader of a party, which for the first time in its history goes into | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
Government, which is already a controversial thing to do because | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
you are governing with our enemies, the Conservatives, and on top of | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
that, doing all the difficult and unpopular things to fix the broken | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
economy which was left to us by Labour, of course as leader of that | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
party I get a lot of incoming fire from right and left. The right say | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
that I'm stopping the Conservatives doing what they want. There is a | :36:50. | :36:52. | |
good reason for that. They didn t win the election. The left say that | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
somehow we have lost our soul when we haven't. That happens day in day | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
out. Of course that will have some effect. My answer to that is not to | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
buckle to those criticisms, those misplaced Chris -- criticisms from | :37:07. | :37:14. | |
left and right, but to stand up proudly. Is it your intention to | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
fight the next election against an in-out referendum on Europe? Yes. | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
Unless there is major treaty change? Our position hasn't waivered, it | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
won't waiver, we are not going to flip-flop on the issue of the | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
referendum like the Conservatives did. We want an in-out referendum. | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
With ve legislated for the trigger when that will happen, when in u | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
powers are transferred to the European Union. That is what we have | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
said for years. We legislated for that... So no change? No change | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
Alright. We are expecting a reshuffle shortly. Will you keep | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
Vince Cable as Business Secretary to the election? I'm immensely proud of | :37:55. | :38:02. | |
what Vince has done. Yes, I intend to make sure that Vince continues to | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
serve in the Government in his present capacity Look what he has | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
done on apprenticeships, he's done more than many people for many years | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
to make sure we build-up manufacturing, the north here, not | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
just the south. I'm proud of what he's done. We have talked about some | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
heavy things. We know you have got into kickboxing. Is there any danger | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
of you becoming a mammal - you know what I mean - a middle-aged man in | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
Lycra! Will the Tour de France influence you? Absolutely no risk of | :38:34. | :38:43. | |
that whatsoever having seen the Tour de France start yesterday near | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
Leeds. I have the yellow Yorkshire sign on my pullover. I will see them | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
later whisk through my constituency. I will not try to emulate them. I'm | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
sure that is to the relief of a grateful nation. Thank you. | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes, | :39:09. | :39:09. | |
the Week Politics east, I am Etholle George. | :39:10. | :39:25. | |
Later, work may resume for LEPs but it is not business as usual. With | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
more UKIP members than ever before there are questions over whdther the | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
work will get done. What is the point of being `n | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
elected member of the Europdan Parliament unless you get involved | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
in the Parliament itself, shape the legislation? | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
And how is this MP's local referendum on our future in the EU | :39:43. | :39:44. | |
going? Well, who better to ask than Peter | :39:45. | :39:53. | |
bone, the Conservative MP for Wellingborough, handily in the | :39:54. | :40:00. | |
studio with us. Along with Bob blizzard, Labour's Parliamentary | :40:01. | :40:08. | |
candidate for Waveney. Let's start with income tax, because | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
it was first mooted by an MP last year when he wrote, one ide` worth | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
considering is merging National Insurance and income taxed hnto just | :40:19. | :40:19. | |
one tax. Well, Suffolk MP Ben Gummer has also | :40:20. | :40:34. | |
been campaigning and the idda seems to have caught the Chancellor's I is | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
you can see from the times. He is looking at the idea for the | :40:41. | :40:43. | |
general election. Bob blizzard, if you roll the two | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
together it is much more tr`nsparent for the public, is it not? | :40:48. | :40:57. | |
think they are paying into ` pot for misnomer and some people | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
think they are paying into ` pot for their pension. It is more or less a | :41:02. | :41:02. | |
tax, but one of the problems with merging it with income tax hs you | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
would have to make up the ploy's contribution to National Insurance | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
and you would end up with a hefty easy rate of income tax that would | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
not be very popular. What about the principle, Peter Bone, the principle | :41:15. | :41:22. | |
established in 1911, Nation`l Insurance to pay for health. What | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
about that principle of loshng that special element that people are | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
quite aware of? People think this is going into a pot to pay for your | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
retirement or whatever and ht isn't. It is effectively just another | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
income tax. There are a lot of problems in combining the two. It | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
will be less transparent to people who level of tax they are p`ying, | :41:54. | :41:55. | |
also. What about the point of havhng to | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
raise the rate, because if xou combine two taxes the overall rate | :42:01. | :42:02. | |
will go up. And the amount that lawyers are to | :42:03. | :42:09. | |
Schmeichel `` that employers are paying. | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
It is direct taxes, that is one reason for doing it, for | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
transparency's sake. Bob's point is different because part of N`tional | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
Insurance is paid by the employer, and I assume they would continue to | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
pay that tax in one form or another. I think it is a good idea, the | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
technical problems can be overcome and I wish them well with it. | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
One Bill the government would like to bring it down is its contribution | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
to Europe. The climate may have changed, with a | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
lot more UKIP MEPs, including three from the east, but the other parties | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
say that is going to mean more work for everyone else. | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
Andrew Sinclair has been to Strasberg. | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
For those who believe in thd European Parliament, this h`s been | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
an important week. The start of a new five`year session, | :43:10. | :43:11. | |
representatives from 28 nathons working together for the good of | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
Europe. The reality, though, is that this | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
Parliament is more Eurosceptic than ever before, which is why UKIP has | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
been getting so much attenthon this week. | :43:25. | :43:26. | |
Their MPs protested when thd European anthem was played hn the | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
chamber. The Party is saying its main role you will be to expose what | :43:31. | :43:40. | |
is wrong with the EU, not ldgislate. In some ways, MEPs are a delocratic | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
pretence, when the decisions are made behind closed doors by the | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
commission and frankly therd is very little democracy. | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
During the lifetime of this new Parliament there will be a big | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
debate about Britain's role in Europe and may even be a referendum | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
on leaving. Our relationship will probably change in the next five | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
years. But in the meantime the EU needs to be government as Mhchael | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
needs to be governed, and whether we like it or not a lot of the | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
legislation past year had a direct effect on our lives in Brit`in. The | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
question is, what role will our local representatives be pl`ying in | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
this new European Parliament? There is now just one British | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
Liberal Democrat here. She represents the south`east, hncluding | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
Milton Keynes. What is it like being the l`st Lib | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
Dem standing? Well, it is very sad for me, I have | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
lost some very good, hard`working colleagues, who I have lent one and | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
we all lent on each other, dxperts in different fields. It is ` sad | :44:42. | :44:49. | |
day, two, for the country. Xou keep's voices not been heard around | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
the table when we are making decisions. | :44:54. | :44:55. | |
There is a worry among many of her colleagues that UKIP will bd quick | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
to point out what is wrong with Parliament but will not be | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
interested in the nitty`gritty. The detail of legislation is very | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
important and we have to make sure that we are paying attention the | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
committees, working hard and doing our bit and delivering results. | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
In the last five years, I looked at over 150 different pieces of EU | :45:17. | :45:23. | |
law, from car exhaust is to vacuum cleaners to ranking to medical | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
research, and I wrote amendlents on behalf of different companids, | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
concerns and groups, table them and argued them and got them into law. | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
And if you hadn't done that businesses in our region wotld have | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
been affected? Yes, because, let's face it, the | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
French and Germans are going to do it, you are in a market, yot have to | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
defend your corner if you w`nt to be able to have those opportunhties. | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
One of our leading UKIP members in the region says he is the f`rming | :45:52. | :45:54. | |
expat. He did not table any amendmdnts on | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
farming law, so I had to do it. We are going to have a weaker voice | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
unless everyone is prepared to roll up their sleeves and help. | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
It is not just new laws. In the next few years there will be important | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
decisions made about funding, particularly for science and | :46:12. | :46:13. | |
transport schemes where our region has done well in the past. | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
What is the point of being `n elected member of the Europdan | :46:19. | :46:20. | |
Parliament unless you get involved, shape the legislation that comes | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
out, stop the bad things th`t we don't want to happen but also help | :46:24. | :46:32. | |
get that ?250 million into our businesses and universities and | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
voluntary organisations? If UKIP do not turn up, they will not get any | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
of the benefits or stop any of the things they say they are ag`inst. | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
More than half a million people voted for UKIP in our region, more | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
than for any other Party. It believes it has a mandate to be you | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
and draw attention to what hs wrong with Europe. But many believe, | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
whatever your views, if you're a member of the European Parlhament | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
you should surely be prepardd to work that Parliament. | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
I'm going to ask some of those questions raised in the fill to | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
Patrick Flynn, who is UKIP LEP for the East. | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
As a Party, you are not doing your bit, are you? | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
Actually, I have only been `n MEP for four days, so it is early to be | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
condemning me on my record. I did not see you, I said as a | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
Party. I completely disagred. If we take other parties for the | :47:29. | :47:36. | |
region, Vicky Ford, doing work, what she means is nodding through the EU | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
taking over the competency on financial services and imperilling | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
Britain's most successful industry. Geoffrey Van Auden's work w`s | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
ushering in open door immigration from Bulgaria. I do not call that | :47:51. | :47:52. | |
work. We do not have her with us, but he | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
has tabled... She has slapped us off without us | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
being here to defend ourselves. Vicky Ford has put through 053 | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
amendments. Stewart Agnew, though he has a | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
better voting record, had only put forward one amendment. | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
Well, Stewart has used his dxpertise to intervene and help shape the | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
debate on the agriculture committees. | :48:18. | :48:19. | |
What is the point in intervdning if you're not good to follow that | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
through and make amendments? Vicky Ford does not know whdther she | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
wants to be in or out of thd EU and I would suggest to Vicky Ford and | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
Geoffrey Van Auden, they have just gone through an election and got | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
their backsides spanked by TKIP With all respect to them, pdrhaps if | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
the Conservative Party had lore Eurosceptic candidates like Peter | :48:42. | :48:48. | |
Bone here and a few `` a conscious Europhiles like Vicky Ford, they | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
might not have done so badlx. Why not get involved? | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
I was involved in the chambdr of week, I hardly ever saw Richard | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
Howard there. Vicky Ford was not even present when her own group | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
leader was making a speech, which I thought rather rude. | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
What are your plans for, funding, for example? | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
Again, this is Richard Howard's buzzword. European funding, he goes | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
on and on about it without telling the people they are getting around | :49:21. | :49:23. | |
half of their own money back and he seems proud of this. We will fight | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
to make the European Union less intolerable and less bad for Britain | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
while we are stuck in it, btt our mandate is to go over there and | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
fight to get Britain out. Will you fight for legislathon that | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
is detrimental for UKIP `` TK plc, and in particularly the East, if you | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
have to question might we whll fight to oppose legislation that will make | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
things worse within the European Union. | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
If there are amendments that make a bit of legislation or less bad, then | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
we will consider supporting those amendments, and that will bd a new | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
approach for UKIP. You are saying that is a new policy? | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
On occasion you will make alendments if need be? | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
On occasion, we will. Rather than opposing everything, we will oppose | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
the prime legislation... Now you are getting involved in | :50:15. | :50:17. | |
Europe, now you are actuallx getting involved in what is going on. | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
It is a second line of defence for Britain against primary leghslation | :50:24. | :50:25. | |
and if we think something is going to go through and an amendmdnt will | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
make something less bad, we will consider that on its merits, that is | :50:31. | :50:41. | |
a development of the UKIP position. UKIP was democratically elected | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
they have their mandate, wh`t is not to like? | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
But I think the real point here is that Nigel Farage has made his name | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
by presenting himself as solething different, not a politician like the | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
rest. What we can see is th`t he is a politician. He has been in the | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
European Parliament for sevdral years now taking over 100,000 a year | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
plus staff from an organisation he does not believe in, then not | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
putting in the work. That is a bad advert for politics. | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
I don't think anyone can accuse Nigel Farage of not putting in the | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
work. For constituents? His consthtuents | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
have giving him a thumping big mandate just in May, so that they | :51:23. | :51:24. | |
are obviously quite pleased with him. | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
The question is, is he workhng for the constituents or just advancing | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
UKIP? Well, that is for the consthtuents | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
to judge, and they have. Peter Bone, people sent an `nti`EU | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
message but did not vote for the Conservatives, why? | :51:43. | :51:44. | |
You're absolutely right. Thd combined vote of UKIP massively sent | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
a message saying the Europe`n Union needs to be reformed and sole of us | :51:51. | :51:53. | |
believe we should come out. The thing is, there is no difference | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
between what Patrick thinks and what I think. | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
Perhaps you are in the wrong Party? Now you have raised an issud, should | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
the parties be working together I am raising an issue about you | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
specifically being in the wrong Party. | :52:12. | :52:13. | |
I could argue Patrick could be in my Party for his views. With all due | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
respect, Bob has this view of a European superstate and there should | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
not be a referendum, we shotld throw away British money and we should | :52:25. | :52:26. | |
roll over every time, and that is fine, that is a point of vidw, but | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
we take a different point of view. At the moment, if we carry on like | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
this, UKIP will get a big vote, the Conservatives will get a big vote, | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
but unfortunately we will ldt Labour into the middle and that is a | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
danger. What about the reaction at the | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
European elections, because Labour did not come off very well? | :52:45. | :52:50. | |
We lost the European elections in 1999 and 2004 but shortly after we | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
bounced back and add victorx in the elections. | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
But not for your policies in Europe, though, that might hndicate | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
that. I think the European elections are a | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
bit of a law unto themselves. You get a low turnout and high | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
proportion of the people who turn out other bee in their bonndt about | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
Europe, so we get the results that we have. History shows European | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
results are rather different from Westminster results. | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
Patrick, what is your posithon because you want to fight a | :53:22. | :53:24. | |
Westminster seat but you ard taking and any people as Michael s`lary | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
whilst thinking about doing that. I have been elected as an MDP, I | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
have every right to be paid at the same rate as the other MEPs. | :53:32. | :53:37. | |
And fight a seat at the samd time? I am considering my options, I am | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
not down for a seat at all `t the moment. I am still reforming the | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
duties... Are you saying you will not fight a | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
Westminster seat? I have not decided yet. You will | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
continue to take the MEP's salary, funding you through that potential | :53:56. | :53:57. | |
fight? I do not really follow the logic of | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
the question. I have been elected as an MEP and I am serving on the | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
mandate on which I was elected. I may or may not fight a seat at the | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
general election next year. You saying candidates who may fhght the | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
general election next year should not be paid for their day jobs? | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
It depends how much of your time you're going to be contributing to | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
your work as an MEP and how much time you will fight the seat? | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
What do you mean spend fighting the seat? I have not put my namd down | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
for any seat, I am an electdd MEP, I was in Strasbourg this week, | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
Brussels last week and next week, I am doing my job and I have not put | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
my name down for a Parliament a receipt or even applied for one yet. | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
The general election is next May, so are you saying I should work for | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
nothing while I think about being a candidate from next March or April? | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
We'll see what happens next, thank you very much for joining us. | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
As promised, we will be spe`king to Peter Bone about his own ballot on | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
the EU. The EU. He and fellow | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
Northamptonshire MP Philip @ldbourne are holding their own referdndum on | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
staying in the EU. It will not have any legal force but could ptt | :55:12. | :55:13. | |
pressure on the government to arrange an national vote. | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
It followed a similar poll by the Kent MP Mark Reckless. | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
Earlier we spoke to the polhtical editor for the size about that | :55:23. | :55:24. | |
ballot. Well, the MP, Mark Reckless decided | :55:25. | :55:34. | |
to hold his own referendum, and the question was do you want to remain | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
part of the European Union or come out? | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
When the results come in `` came in people voted overwhelmingly, almost | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
80% against 20%, to come out of the EU. | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
It was a small sample size, he had 4000 responses out of an eldctorate | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
of 75,000. It is important to note that the only people who wotld | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
respond to a referendum likd this, if you like, are people who are very | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
interested in this issue, bdcause it was hypothetical. They had no say | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
about whether we came out or stayed in. But Mark Reckless said ht was an | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
overwhelming result, and thhs does appear to be the case, Tory | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
backbench MPs like Peter Bone are now holding their own indivhdual | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
referendums in their constituencies. The reason behind this is to try and | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
force David Cameron's and to try and make him bring forward the promised | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
referendum 2017. Peter Bone, let us talk abott this | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
referendum, because my understanding was you were hoping to rele`se the | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
results by now. Why have thdy not come out? | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
One thing on that report, the referendum is a joint referdndum | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
across Kettering, Wellingborough and the Corby constituency. The idea | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
came from a Conservative Parliamentary candidate who was in | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
the film but was not mentioned by the BBC. This was a joint three | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
constituency poll. They are still being delivered, half of thd ballot | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
papers roughly have gone out and I guess we will get the rest out by | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
the end of this month. I thhnk we explained this before, therd is no | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
end date. We will. Counting when people stop sending the ballot | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
papers back to us. When you have got the right result | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
perhaps? If that was the case we would tell | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
you the result now and stop. It is clearly... The point hs we | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
want as many people as posshble to vote. If they do not have a ballot | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
paper they can go to the website and fought by electoral... | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
Are people responding well? We heard Mark Reckless's turnout was not very | :57:44. | :57:53. | |
good. I was surprised by that, in one area | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
where we completed delivery in my constituency had a much higher | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
turnout than that. We will see at the end of the day the turnout and | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
what the vote is. What do you make of this tactic | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
I think we should have a referendum on the European Union. Therd is a | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
national mood to have one although that mood is not as strong `s is | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
often claimed, judging by that result in Kent. Importantly, I think | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
a referendum would land still boil and allow the items that ard not put | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
at the moment, the arguments for staying in, to be put. `` it would | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
lance the boil. Principally the argument for the | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
single economy, and the opinion polls would tilt towards st`ying in | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
and I think people would vote for staying in like they did in 197 . | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
That is my view and the view of quite a lot of people in thd Labour | :58:48. | :58:48. | |
Party. How is this being funded? The | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
posting of envelopes etc. Bob is taking a principle stands as | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
ever, and I would like his Party leader to take on board what he | :58:58. | :58:59. | |
said. Funding of this has been pahd for by | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
some private donations, part of it is being paid for delivery, part of | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
it by private donations. It seems to be back to school in our | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
prodigal roundup of the week. `` political roundup. | :59:17. | :59:24. | |
Education Minister and Norfolk MP Liz truss anions school's m`ths hubs | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
this week. Their main point is about the | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
attitude that everything can do well at maths. | :59:36. | :59:37. | |
criticised in the House for getting criticised in the House for getting | :59:38. | :59:39. | |
his maths wrong over council expenses. | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
Lord Hanningfield brought great shame upon local government and he | :59:44. | :59:46. | |
brought great shame to the House of lords. He should do what he can to | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
repay the money. Northampton MP Michael Ellis needs | :59:54. | :59:55. | |
to go back to school, according to the Speaker. | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
Mr Ellis, calm yourself man Only this morning at each are sahd to me | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
in Speaker's House, how can I tell a little boy in my class to bdhave | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
when parliamentarians do not! Be a good boy! | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
Stewart Jackson gave the Rhhne Minister ten out of ten for his | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
stand. I always knew he had led in his | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
pencil... It is good to see him sharpdning it | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
on the inexorable drive to dver closer union, as personified by his | :00:28. | :00:36. | |
stance on the European Union leader. Praise for the PM's stands, a stance | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
that went down well with thd public for being prime ministerial. | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
I think he made a fool of hhmself and there is nothing heroic about | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
losing by 26 votes to two. H think he has done irreparable dam`ge to | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
the country because he has destroyed relationships in the Europe`n Union | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
and made it harder to get changes. But the public actually likdd his | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
stance. Well, got some headlines, if you are | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
in the headlines, people sed headlines, but they will be | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
consequences for that. People talk about democracy, the | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
leader is democratically eldcted, that is democracy at work, hsn't it? | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
Actually, no, it was a council that decided on the president, and I am | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
impressed the Prime Minister took a principled stance. Others write | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
Labour would have rolled ovdr and accepted what the other European | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
Union leaders wanted. This was the Prime Minister being much more like | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
Margaret Thatcher, rather than Tony Blair. Yearsley had of the largest | :01:40. | :01:49. | |
group, though, isn't he? What I am seeing is the largest head | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
of nations coming together to choose who they want. | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
I think that is the biggest lie out, that would not have bedn the | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
case. We will have to leave it thdre, | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
thank you. As always, you c`n keep in touch through our websitd, we are | :02:08. | :02:09. | |
back at the same time next progress in London was being made | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
before that started. I wish we had longer for that. It is all over to | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
you. What will Thursday's mass | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
public sector strike achieve? Has David Cameron's anti-Juncker | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
attacks clawed back support And is Alan Johnson really thinking | :02:23. | :02:24. | |
about challenging Ed Miliband We will start with the strikes, Matt | :02:25. | :02:46. | |
Hancock was hardline in the head-to-head that he did with the | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
TUC. I guess that the Tory internal polling and focus groups must be | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
telling them that there are votes in taking a tough line? There is that | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
and there is the fact that they are now much more confident on any | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
economic policy two or three years ago. They shied away from it because | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
the economy was shrinking, there was still a danger that public sector | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
job losses would lead to higher unemployment overall. Now, the | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
economy is growing, they have a good story to sell about employment so | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
they are much more bolshy and brazen than they were two or three years | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
ago. They know that it always causes problems for Labour. Labour is | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
naturally sympathetic to the public sector workers, pay being squeezed, | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
they are striking to make an issue of it. And yet they can't quite come | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
out and give the unions 100% Labour support? Exactly. You saw Tristram | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
Hunt on the Marr Show this morning squirming to support the idea of | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
strikes, but not this particular strike. It was always the question | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
that gets asked to Labour - who funds you? That is a real problem. | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
The bit that gets me is they trail this ef are I time there is a - | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
every time there is a strike, this idea of cutting it to ballots and | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
local election turnout was a third. Boris Johnson was elected Mayor of | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
London with 38% turnout. We need to talk about-turnout across our | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
democracy. That is an easy rebuttal for Labour to make. Matt Hancock was | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
hardline about changing the strike law. When you asked him the | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
question, if you are not going to stabilise the public finances till | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
2018, does this mean the pay freeze or no real term pay increase in the | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
public sector will increase till 2018, h e was inner vous on that | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
one. -- he was nervous on that one. This strike is different to those | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
strikes that took place in 2010 At that time, the TUC and the Labour | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
Leadership thought there was going to be a great movement out there, | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
not a kind of 1926 movement, but a great movement out there. This time | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
round, I think the climate is different. Ed Miliband talking about | :05:05. | :05:11. | |
wage increases being outstripped by inflation and people not seeing the | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
recovery coming through into their pay packets. Slightly more tricky | :05:16. | :05:23. | |
territory for the Tories. If The Labour machine cannot make something | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
out of Matt Hancock telling this programme there will be no increase | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
in pay for workers in the public sector till 2018, they have a | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
problem? They do have a problem They have to say always that they | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
would not just turn the money taps on. That is the dance that you are | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
locked in all the time. Can we all agree that Alan Johnson is not going | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
to stand against Ed Miliband this side of the election? Some | :05:49. | :05:57. | |
politicians are cynical enough. I don't think Alan Johnson is one Do | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
we agree? There is nothing in it for Labour and certainly not for Alan | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
Johnson. No way. It is the last thing he would want to do. There are | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
some desperate members going around trying to find a stalking horse | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
Alan Johnson will not be their man. He has more important things to do | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
on a Thursday night on BBC One! Isn't it something about the febrile | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
state of the Labour Party that Labour, some Labour backbenchers or | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
in the Shadow Cabinet, can float the idea of this nonsense? If there was | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
a time to do it, maybe it was in the middle of the Parliament. With ten | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
months left, you are stuck with the leader you chose in 2010. I remember | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
them failing to understand this in January of 2010 when there was that | :06:42. | :06:49. | |
last push against Gordon Brown. Five months before an election, they were | :06:50. | :07:01. | |
trying to do something. The deputy Leader of the Labour Party had | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
something to do with it. There is deep unease about Ed Miliband. There | :07:06. | :07:12. | |
are problems but Alan Johnson is not the man. I think there is no chance | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
of it! If the most recent polls are to be | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
believed, David Cameron appears to have enjoyed a 'Juncker bounce' - | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
clawing back some support from UKIP after he very publicly opposed the | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker to the post of EU Commission | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
president. Last week Nigel Farage took his newly enlarged UKIP | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
contingent to Strasbourg for the first session | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
of the new European Parliament. These two gentlemen have nothing to | :07:35. | :07:53. | |
say today. It was the usual dull, looking back to a model invented 50 | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
years ago and we are the ones that want democracy, we are the ones that | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
want nation state, we are the ones that want a global future for our | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
countries, not to be trapped inside this museum. Thank you. I can see we | :08:08. | :08:14. | |
will be covering more of the European Parliament at last! | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
It's rumoured he's likely to stand in the next general election in the | :08:22. | :08:23. | |
Kent constituency of Thanet South, currently held by the Conservatives. | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
Last week the Conservatives selected their candidate for the seat - | :08:27. | :08:28. | |
Craig McKinlay - a former deputy leader of UKIP. | :08:29. | :08:30. | |
Did you get the short straw, you have got a seat that Nigel Farage is | :08:31. | :08:41. | |
probably going to fight? Not in the slightest. It is a seat that I know | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
well. It is a seat that there's obvious euro scepticism there and my | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
qualities are right for that seat. UKIP got some very good... What are | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
your qualities? Deep-seated conservatism, I was a founder of | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
UKIP, I wrote the script back in 1992. My heart is Conservative | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
values. They are best put out to the public by me in South Thanet. It | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
would be ridiculous if Nigel chose that seat. We need a building block | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
of people like myself to form a Government if we are going to have | :09:18. | :09:19. | |
that referendum that is long overdue. I don't think he's got the | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
luxury of losing somebody who is very similar in views to him. He | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
would be best look looking elsewhere. You wouldn't like him to | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
stand in your seat, would you? It would seem to make very little | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
sense. People would say what is UKIP all about if it's fighting people | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
who have got a similar view to them? We do need to build a majority | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
Government for the Conservatives next year because only us are | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
offering that clear in-out referendum. I want to be one of | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
those building blocks that is part of that renegotiation that we will | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
put to public in a referendum. Sounds to me like if the choice is | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
between you and Nigel Farage next May in Thanet South, it is Tweedle | :10:03. | :10:12. | |
Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all The danger to this country is another | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
Labour Government. That is one of the main reasons that I left UKIP in | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
2005 because that last five years of the Labour Government was the most | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
dangerous to the fundamentals of Britain that we have ever seen. I'm | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
happy with the Conservatives. I have full Conservative values. I am a | :10:29. | :10:39. | |
Euro-sceptic. Thank you for joining us. The Westminster bubble yet | :10:40. | :10:48. | |
again, which has a herd mentality, a bubble with a herd mentality, it got | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
it wrong yet again. Mr Cameron's isolated, he is useless at | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
diplomacy, all of which may be true, but the British people liked it and | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
his backbenchers liked it? True Although some of us would say it is | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
possible... You are speaking for the bubble? I'm speaking for my segment | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
of the bubble. Some of us argued that he got it wrong diplomatically | :11:13. | :11:24. | |
and it would be wrong politically. It will be the passage of time. We | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
saw UKIP decline between the 20 4 European elections and the 2005 | :11:30. | :11:36. | |
General. You would expect something similar to happen this time round. | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
The question is how far low do they fall? They are still registering | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
12-15% in the opinion polls. They are. When Mr Cameron wielded his | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
veto which again the Westminster bubble said it's terrible, it is | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
embarrassing, he overtook Labour in the polls for a while doing that. | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
He's had a Juncker bounce. If you were a strategist, would you not | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
conclude the more Euro-sceptic I am, the better it is for me in the | :12:02. | :12:11. | |
polls? In the short-term, yes. This is the short-term thinking we are | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
supposed to despise. The electricion is very clever for a different | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
supposed to despise. The electricion different reason. It is this | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
anti-London feeling in Thanet South. He is a councillor, he grew up in | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
the constituency. He is a chartered accountant. He is somebody who can | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
be seen to be a champion of local people. If they had parachuted in a | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
special adviser, they would be in real trouble. He wants to get out... | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
This is the third representative of the bubble? He wants to get out of | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
the European Union which David Cameron doesn't want to do. It was | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
interesting for that statement to MPs on Monday, there were mild | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
Euro-sceptics who said, "I can't take this." The Speaker said can the | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
baying mob, the Conservative MPs, quieten down, please. Ben Bradshaw, | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
the former Minister made it, he said, "I'm reminded when the leader | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
of the Labour Party before Harold Wilson made that famous Euro-sceptic | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
speech and Mrs Gaitskell said darling, the wrong people are | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
cheering." That is the challenge. Thank you, bubbles! | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
The Daily Politics is back at its usual Noon time every day | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
And I'll be back here on BBC One next Sunday at 11pm for the last | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
Sunday Politics of the summer - I'll be talking to Scotland's Deputy | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:38. | :13:44. |