Browse content similar to 16/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Boris Johnson hosts a summit of allies in London | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
to discuss how to broker a peace settlement in Syria. | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
But as war continues to rage, could "no-bomb zones" - | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
thought to be backed by the Foreign Secretary - | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
protect civilians, and how would they work? | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
We were told by the Remain campaign that a vote to leave the EU would | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
But with the economy growing and employment at record | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
Can Theresa May make a decision on airport expansion | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
without triggering a Conservative cabinet bust-up | :01:09. | :01:10. | |
We look at what's at stake, as the PM prepares to choose | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
And on Sunday Politics Scotland - the SNP aim to put Scotland | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
at the heart of Europe and call for a cross-party coalition | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
against a hard Brexit at home, but will there be any takers? | :01:25. | :01:36. | |
All that to come before 12.15 - and the Scottish Secretary, David | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
Mundell, on Nicola Sturgeon's plans for a second referendum | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
And with me throughout - Tom Newtown Dunn, | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
Julia Hartley-Brewer and Steve Richards. | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
They'll all be tweeting their thoughts and comments | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
So, in just over an hour, the Foreign Secretary, | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
Boris Johnson, will host a meeting of foreign allies in London, | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
including US Secretary of State John Kerry, | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
to discuss military options in Syria. | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
Last week, Mr Johnson said the public mood had changed | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
after relentless bomb attacks on Aleppo | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
and that more "kinetic action" might be possible. | :02:14. | :02:22. | |
Has the public mood changed on Syria? There is a desire to end the | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
horror, but has the public mood really changed? Not really. When | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
asked, the Public say that something must be done and we must stop the | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
slaughter, but when also asked whether to put British troops there, | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
they say, probably not. We have a new Foreign Secretary and British | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
government, and we will have a new White House come January for sure. | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
So there is a feeling that what has gone so far in terms of not | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
intervening, not trying to oppose or block Putin from doing what he wants | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
in Syria has failed, so time to try something else. There was talk of a | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
no-fly zone. There's not so much talk about it now. Now there's | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
suddenly a no-bomb zone. Are we clear what that would be? It is | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
meaningless without a no-fly zone and no one is willing to enforce it. | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
For me, the biggest issue is, what is the point of the United Nations? | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
With Russia vetoing any possible peace plan, we are in a situation | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
where we are basically handing over our moral authority in the world for | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
dealing with humanitarian disasters and war crimes being committed by | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
the side regime and Putin to an organisation which is controlled by | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
Putin effectively because he has a veto on the Security Council. The | :03:50. | :04:01. | |
situation is untenable. We cannot sit and pretend we don't want to be | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
involved in this war. We are already at war, and we will be at war. We | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
need to get to grips with it sooner or later. If we are willing to say | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
that we don't care about Syrian children dying... But we are not | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
willing to say that, so we need to do something about it. We could care | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
deeply but admits there is not something we can do about it. | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
Indeed. When Julia says "Get involved", that does not translate | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
to anything precise or specific. The problem is you go round in circles | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
when it comes to reaction, because when people are then asked what the | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
endgame is - and you do need to have a sense of the end and an aim, and | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
one of the problems with Iraq was that there was not that - you can | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
simply say, something needs to be done and we are involved and there | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
should be military action, but that raises 10,000 other questions which | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
no one is capable of answering. As I understand it, the no-bomb zone | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
would be that we would designate areas where no bombing would be | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
allowed. We wouldn't have planes to stop it happening, but if bombing | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
did happen in those areas, we would use missiles to take out Syrian | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
infrastructure. It seems complicated, and to not take into | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
account what we would do if the Russians put anti-missile batteries | :05:27. | :05:28. | |
around this Syrian infrastructure, as well they might. And you could go | :05:29. | :05:35. | |
one step further. Your understanding is the same as mine. Doing something | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
to prevent drops being -- ones being dropped in that area, but without | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
engaging with Russia. You could fire cruise missiles into a runway, which | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
we were warned could be done, but the problem is, you could have a | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
Russian jet in the middle of that runway, or a bus of school kids. We | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
know that they are capable of doing that. You are looking towards a | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
confrontation with Russia, what ever you do. Boris Johnson would say this | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
is the kind of HARDtalk we need to get the man to listen, because | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
everything else has failed. Mr Kerry being there is significant, but at | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
this stage in the election cycle, it's hard to sue what -- see what Mr | :06:23. | :06:33. | |
Obama would do. We have no idea what to reason may's foreign policy is in | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
terms of intervention. The last thing she would want to do is to get | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
involved in a Middle Eastern war. But we are already involved. And the | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
idea that our entire foreign policy should be based on not having a | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
conflict in the Putin... The West as a whole is not wanting to have a | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
conflict with him, and that is why he is acting how he is. | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
Nicola Sturgeon, the First Minister of Scotland, has repeated her | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
warning that, if the UK leaves the single market, she will push for | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
Speaking to Andrew Marr earlier this morning, Ms Sturgeon said | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
she would not hesitate to protect Scotland's economic interests. | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
There's a principle here about, you know, | :07:18. | :07:18. | |
Does what we think, and what we say, and how | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
And that's what's going to be put to the test, I think, | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
Theresa May, perfectly legitimately, says she values the UK, | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
In the Independence Referendum, Scotland was told repeatedly | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
My message to the Prime Minister is, it's now time to prove these | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
things, and demonstrate to Scotland that our voice does count | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
within the UK, and our interests can be protected. | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
Because if that's not the case, then I think Scotland | :07:45. | :07:46. | |
would have the right to decide whether it wanted to follow | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
I've been joined by the Secretary of State for Scotland, David Mundell. | :07:50. | :07:58. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. During the Scottish referendum | :07:59. | :08:06. | |
campaign, two years ago, the ETA Together campaign claimed that the | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
only guaranteed way for Scotland to remain in the EU was to stay in the | :08:10. | :08:17. | |
UK. That turned out to be untrue. You owe the people of Scotland an | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
apology. That isn't the full facts. It was made clear during the | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
referendum in Scotland that there could be an EU referendum. Ruth | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
Davidson, on many occasions, made it clear that people in Scotland would | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
have the opportunity to vote on whether or not they remained in the | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
EU. What was clear in that referendum, and you played a | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
significant part in highlighting it, was that those who were advocating a | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
yes vote could not set out a clear route for Scotland to get into the | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
EU as an independent nation. They were told if they stayed in the UK, | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
that was their best route to remaining in Europe. It turned out, | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
it is obvious that that was untrue. It was a route that meant there was | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
going to be an EU referendum. That was made very clear throughout that. | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
People voted in Scotland decisively to remain part of the UK in full | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
knowledge that there would be a referendum on whether the United | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
Kingdom remained in the European Union. That is what the vote on the | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
23rd of June in Scotland was about. It was about the UK remaining in the | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
EU, not Scotland. The people of Scotland were told to vote for the | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
union to be sure of staying in the UK. They also voted 62% to 38% to | :09:39. | :09:47. | |
stay in the EU. Now they are being dragged out against their will. | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
Surely that is grounds for a second Scottish referendum? I don't accept | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
that. I've voted to stay in the EU, but I didn't do so on the basis that | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
if I didn't get my own way that Scotland would be dragged out of the | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
United Kingdom. We have had a once in a generation vote as to whether | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
Scotland remained part of the UK. There was a decisive result in that. | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
On the assumption that we would also remain part of the European Union, | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
so a major change has taken place. I don't accept that analysis. People | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
were told that there would be a vote on whether the UK remained in the | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
EU. The reasons for Scotland remaining in the UK were | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
overwhelmingly economic, and those issues remain today in relation to | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
the UK single market. It is very odd that people who are concerned about | :10:41. | :10:41. | |
the EU single market are quite willing to | :10:42. | :11:00. | |
give up the UK single market, which is four times as valuable to | :11:01. | :11:02. | |
Scotland, and responsible for a million jobs. If the Scottish | :11:03. | :11:04. | |
Government demands another referendum, will the UK Government | :11:05. | :11:06. | |
grant it? The UK Government will have two agreed to a referendum, but | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
we want to argue that there shouldn't be another referendum. It | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
is in Scotland's best interests at the two governments work together | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
with 18 UK approach to get the best possible situation for Scotland... | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
If the Scottish Parliament decides that we do want -- we do not like | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
the terms of Brexit and we want another referendum, would you grant | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
it? There would have to be an agreement between the two | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
governments in the same form as the Edinburgh Agreement. The great shame | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
of the Edinburgh Agreement, which the SNP used to quote repeatedly, is | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
that they have not adhere to it, because a fundamental part of that | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
would be that both sides would respect the result. Viewers will | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
notice that you haven't really answered my question. Could Scotland | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
remain inside the single market in Europe as part of the Brexit | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
process? From the outset, I have said we would listen to any proposal | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
that the Scottish Government brought forward in relation to Scotland's | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
interests. We have had for months and no specific proposals have come | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
forward. Nicola Sturgeon was talking about proposals this morning, but at | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
this moment, I see it impossible that Scotland could remain within | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
the EU whilst the rest of the UK leads. It would be difficult to see | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
how that could be achieved. But we will listen to any proposals the | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
Scottish Government bring forward in relation to achieving the best | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
interests of Scotland. I am convinced that Scotland's best | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
interests are being part of the UK. You praised Scotland's membership of | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
the single market during the referendum. In March of this year | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
you said it secured jobs, was vital to tourism and industry, inbound | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
visitors and the rest of it. So why would you not want to retain it for | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
Scotland? I agree with the benefits Scotland has received from the | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
single market, but we are in a different situation now. The UK is | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
negotiating its exit from the EU. The Prime Minister has said it is | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
not going to be on the basis of existing arrangements, it will be on | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
the basis of a new arrangement, and as part of that, we will want to | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
secure the best arrangement for Scottish businesses. Given the | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
history we have gone through, do you want to guarantee a special post | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
Brexit status for Scotland. We leave the EU, but Scotland will have a | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
distinct status? I'm willing to look at any proposal brought forward that | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
looks at Scotland's interests. We have had no specifics from the | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
Scottish Government. They say now that they have them. It is a bit rum | :13:58. | :14:06. | |
to attack the Scottish Government. The principle is, could Scotland | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
have a special position, and would you help that or not? I am willing | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
to listen to any proposal brought forward. Will fishing and farming go | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
back to Edinburgh? The devolution settlement are going to be a | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
change,... Will they go to Edinburgh or to London? We will have a | :14:27. | :14:33. | |
decision at the end of that process. I want to make sure we have the best | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
arrangement for Scotland. You can't answer the question? We want to | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
listen to what fishermen and farmers say, and the people of Scotland. It | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
will be a package of arrangements, clearly, that need to be taken | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
forward as a result of leaving the EU. One final question. If the | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
Scottish Nationalist MPs vote against grammar schools, which are | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
purely for England, isn't that proof that your English votes for English | :15:04. | :15:05. | |
laws isn't working? It demonstrates all MPs in the | :15:06. | :15:15. | |
Parliament have the opportunity to vote on all issues. You wouldn't | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
mind if they voted to stop Grammar schools? Of course I wouldn't -- | :15:21. | :15:31. | |
would mind... I think we have got the balance right in that | :15:32. | :15:39. | |
legislation. It is meaningless if they can vote to stop grammar | :15:40. | :15:41. | |
schools when it doesn't affect Scotland. They have to answer for | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
that, based on an opportunistic approach and cause resentment in | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
England. Thank you for being with us. | :15:53. | :15:53. | |
During the EU Referendum campaign, leading Remain supporters repeatedly | :15:54. | :15:55. | |
warned that a vote to leave the European Union would cause | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
Three months on, were their forecasts accurate? | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
Since the vote on June 23rd, the economic news | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
The value of the pound has been in pretty steady depreciation | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
since referendum day, falling to a 31-year | :16:11. | :16:12. | |
It was as low as $1.18 but has still rebounded a bit. | :16:13. | :16:20. | |
The weak pound left Tesco in a situation. | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
They stopped selling Marmite and other products for a day online | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
And a leaked Treasury report said that Government tax revenues | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
could be down by 66 billion a year in a post-Brexit economy. | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
Though the report emanated from Project Fear days. | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
However, many of the short-term economic fundamentals | :16:42. | :16:43. | |
The dominant service sector grew a healthy 0.4% in July. | :16:44. | :16:51. | |
In the same month, the unemployment rate dipped to under 5%, | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
House-buying has also been rising since the referendum, | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
nearly 110,000 properties were purchased in August. | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
Is the economy already suffering from the Brexit blues or not? | :17:04. | :17:10. | |
Joining me now is the former shadow Europe Minister, | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
the Labour MP Pat McFadden, who was a Business Minister | :17:14. | :17:15. | |
Do you know concede that nearly all the short-term economic forecasts | :17:16. | :17:29. | |
made by the Remain campaign have turned out to be untrue at best, | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
scaremongering at worst? No, I think this week was the week that the | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
beginnings of the economic effects of Brexit began to take hold, most | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
obviously on the currency fall. You talk about short-term, this began on | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
the night of the referendum itself and was given booster rockets by the | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
signals sent out by the Conservative Party conference. In terms of the | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
warnings next to reality, the warnings about the fall of the | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
currency speculated that it might fall in value by about 12%, the | :18:02. | :18:08. | |
reality is closer to 20%. Let's look at some of the warnings. We will | :18:09. | :18:17. | |
come back to the currency, but let's look at this. The Treasury report on | :18:18. | :18:19. | |
maybe 23rd said the following: That turned out to be untrue, didn't | :18:20. | :18:33. | |
it? What has happened here, which isn't in line with those warnings, | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
is consumer confidence has remained high. The actions of the Bank of | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
England in cutting interest have been important, so the short-term | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
effect in terms of consumer confidence... So it is wrong? Hasn't | :18:46. | :18:53. | |
turned out in line with that, but it would be complacent in the extreme | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
to conclude that with the effects of the currency which we know also from | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
the Bank of England's comments the other dates will feed into higher | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
prices, which will hit lower income consumers hardest. But we don't know | :19:08. | :19:15. | |
yet, I will come onto that but in the short term, I will show you | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
another one. A month before the referendum, the Chancellor George | :19:20. | :19:20. | |
Osborne said this: That turned out to be wronged too, | :19:21. | :19:34. | |
didn't it? We are not in recession but if you look at the forecasts of | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
growth over the next few years, the Bank of England have forecast growth | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
next year to not be the 2.3% it thought before the referendum but to | :19:44. | :19:52. | |
be 0.8%. Is it forecasting a recession? No, but it is forecasting | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
a slowdown which would mean GDP after two years would be for the ?5 | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
billion less than the estimates before the referendum took place. | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
And it might be wrong, because look, it was wrong about the recession. Is | :20:06. | :20:12. | |
anybody now forecasting a recession? I don't know if anybody is | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
forecasting a recession. The IMF are certainly forecasting a slowdown in | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
a similar way to the Bank of England. George Osborne also said | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
house prices will plummet by 18%. Any sign of that? House prices are | :20:29. | :20:36. | |
not plummeting by 18%. Your side that you represent made much of the | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
IMF's claim that provoked Leave would mean an immediate slide into | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
recession, a collapse in house prices, and a crash in stock markets | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
which of course are currently at record levels. Even the IMF admits | :20:53. | :21:00. | |
there is none of that. There maybe longer term dangers but in the | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
short-term it happen. In the short-term it didn't happen. In the | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
short term what has happened here, as I said a moment ago, is consumer | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
confidence has remained high, the Bank of England cut interest rates | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
which put more money into people's pockets and I think the action they | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
took was important, but I think it would be wrong to say imply that | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
because these things haven't happened in the first few months | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
that we are somehow out of the woods on the economy. I understand that, | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
that's the last thing I would say, but here's the question - most of | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
these forecasters are still pretty gloomy about the long-term but if | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
they couldn't get the last few months right, why would you trust | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
them for 2025 when they couldn't say what will happen in September? Why | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
would you trust them to say what happens five years from now? People | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
will ask the question but the big tangible we have is in the decline | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
of the currency and that is a real and now effect. We can talk about | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
whether it is lost or minus, but the Government said the other day this | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
would bring inflation back, to use his words it is going to get | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
difficult, particularly for people on lower incomes and that will feed | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
into people's purchasing power. The international markets partaking of | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
you have our future prospects and at the moment it is not a vote of | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
confidence. Do you agree with the latest Remain mantra that people | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
might have voted to leave the EU but didn't necessarily vote to leave the | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
single market? I do agree with that. A lot of people have said people who | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
voted to leave didn't know that's what they were voting for, so let me | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
show you a clip of David Cameron at the height of the referendum | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
campaign. The British public would be voting if we leave to leave the | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
EU and the single market, we then have to negotiate a trade deal from | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
outside with the European Union. There you have it loud and clear on | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
BBC television, voting Leave means leaving the single market, not | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
losing access to it but leaving the membership of it. We have George | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
Osborne on tape saying the same thing, so why do you make out Leave | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
voters didn't know what they were voting for? I think people voted | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
Leave for a number of different reasons. For some it might have been | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
immigration, for some it might have been the promise of more money for | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
the NHS, but there are number of countries outside the EU which can | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
have full access to the single market, we know about Norway and on. | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
But they all have to pay in and have free movement. We can come onto that | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
but what I'm saying is it's not the case that when you are outside the | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
EU you necessarily have to be outside the single market and the | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
reason this is important is because this has been a cornerstone of | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
British economic policy for many years, particularly in terms of our | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
inward investment, and the reasons why both manufacturing industry and | :24:17. | :24:19. | |
financial services has invested and created employment in the UK, and I | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
think it would be cavalier to begin this negotiation by closing the door | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
on that. Is it Labour's policy, I know you don't speak for Labour | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
leadership, but is it their policy to remain in the single market? You | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
are right, I'm a backbencher, but it is the policy to have as full access | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
as possible to the single market. At least what we have now in terms of | :24:45. | :24:51. | |
goods and services. You can call it membership or not but that is what | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
Keir Starmer and the Labour Party wants. The old party home affairs | :24:55. | :25:02. | |
select committee is blaming Jeremy Corbyn's lack of leadership for | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
creating a safe space for what they call vile anti-Semitism. Do you | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
agree with that? I think this report should be taken seriously. The | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
atmosphere in the Labour Party, there has been a lot of nasty things | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
said on social media over the past year in particular. I hope we don't | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
make the mistake of shooting the messenger, I hope we take the report | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
seriously and I hope we don't fall into the trap that sometimes I see | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
when these accusations are wielded, that we point to antiracism records | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
and say look at our virtue in our record here, that must mean we | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
cannot be anti-Semitic. Let me be clear about this, pointing to your | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
own sense of righteousness is no excuse for nastiness or cruelty to | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
someone else so we should take this very seriously indeed. Pat McFadden, | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
thank you for being with us this morning. | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
A third runway at Heathrow was first given the green | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
light by Gordon Brown's government in 2009. | :26:07. | :26:08. | |
Almost eight years on, could Theresa May be about finally | :26:09. | :26:10. | |
to allow Heathrow expansion to go ahead? | :26:11. | :26:12. | |
Or could she surprise everyone and back Gatwick instead? | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
Maybe she will come out in favour of both of them! | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
A decision is expected imminently, but it's not straightforward | :26:20. | :26:21. | |
Several members of her cabinet are opposed to any plan to expand | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
Heathrow, and reports suggest as many as 60 of her backbenchers | :26:26. | :26:27. | |
Our reporter, Mark Lobel, has been looking at | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
A growing number of people want to take more flights and some | :26:32. | :26:40. | |
accuse the Government of dragging their feet over | :26:41. | :26:42. | |
All the while, our airports are operating flat-out. | :26:43. | :26:52. | |
So this is fully autonomous, you just have to press the start | :26:53. | :26:59. | |
Matthew Hill is from a business-backed group campaigning | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
We haven't had a full-length runway in London and the south-east | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
Gatwick was built in the 1930s, Heathrow in the 1940s, | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
Heathrow is full, Gatwick will be full in the next few years. | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
Matthew's group claims the lack of a new runway is costing us | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
I think there are huge economic benefits from the construction | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
At the moment, because we don't have that new runway, we don't | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
have that new capacity, the new flights to new markets, | :27:35. | :27:36. | |
we are missing out on ?9.5 billion a year in lost trade. | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
Until we get that decision and we get that runway | :27:41. | :27:42. | |
built, we will continue to lose out on that trade. | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
One airport that's eager to expand is Heathrow, | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
either by expanding this northern runway, the one closest to us here, | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
or, the Airports Commission's favourite proposal, building | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
a new runway parallel to here, about a kilometre that way in place | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
It's said that would offer 40 new destinations from the airport, | :28:00. | :28:07. | |
carry lots more air freight, provide 70,000 new jobs | :28:08. | :28:09. | |
and an overall boost to economic activity in the country, | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
with a promise of no night flights, new environmental and community | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
Heathrow's hub status also services many of the UK's other airports, | :28:18. | :28:27. | |
On average, every year a quarter of a million passengers travel | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
to and from this key exporting region via Heathrow, | :28:34. | :28:35. | |
While we've been very strong supporters of a third runway | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
at Heathrow, we think it's in the best interests | :28:42. | :28:43. | |
of the north-east, we also think it's in the best | :28:44. | :28:45. | |
Our services connect to many, many destinations across the world, | :28:46. | :28:54. | |
and allow businesses to trade right the way across the globe. | :28:55. | :29:02. | |
Gatwick Airport also wants to expand with another runway here. | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
By doubling Gatwick's capacity, the plan would create 22,000 | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
new jobs, a vastly expanded short-haul network, and more | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
I think the expansion of Gatwick will bring firstly | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
the certainty of delivery, we can have spades in the ground | :29:21. | :29:23. | |
in this Parliament and we can be operational in the next, | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
so that's within ten years we can have a new runway, | :29:30. | :29:31. | |
and Gatwick can provide the increased capacity at a price | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
Now, before anyone gets carried away, there are of course some | :29:35. | :29:42. | |
people who would far prefer no extra planes in the sky. | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
We already fly more than everybody else, | :29:49. | :29:50. | |
most of these are leisure flights, well who's taking | :29:51. | :29:52. | |
Actually 70% of all of our flights are taken by 15% of the population. | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
It's a wealthy frequent-flying elite. | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
But with approval of a third runway looking likely, | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
could more protests be on the horizon? | :30:08. | :30:16. | |
I can tell you now, they are dusting off the handcuffs, you know, | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
And you have to remember, Heathrow, if they choose to expand | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
Heathrow, you are talking about hundreds of homes | :30:24. | :30:25. | |
being bulldozed, whole communities being eradicated, wiped off the map. | :30:26. | :30:28. | |
Over the last few years, since the last big protest around | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
Heathrow, the relationship between local people around | :30:32. | :30:33. | |
the airport and grass roots climate change activists | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
Those guys are going to get together and just cause merry hell for people | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
The Prime Minister, Theresa May, who once called for a better not | :30:42. | :30:50. | |
bigger Heathrow whilst in opposition, will chair a select | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
group of colleagues expected to decide imminently | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
on whether to build a new runway and where. | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
It will then take months for a national policy statement | :31:00. | :31:02. | |
outlining the new works to get drawn up before MPs get to vote on it, | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
leaving plenty of time for any further opposition to airport | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
I've been joined by two Conservative MPs. | :31:12. | :31:19. | |
Adam Afriyie is opposed to Heathrow expansion, | :31:20. | :31:21. | |
Adam, the independent Daviess report into runway expansion said the case | :31:22. | :31:42. | |
for Heathrow was clear and unanimous in the Commission. 180,000 more | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
jobs, more than ?200 billion in economic benefits. So why are you | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
putting the interests of your constituency before the national | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
interest? I will fight tooth and nail for the interests of my | :31:58. | :31:59. | |
constituents, but the wonderful thing about the binary choice | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
between Heathrow and Gatwick is that it is not in the regional or | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
consumers' interests to expand Heathrow. The Daviess report has | :32:09. | :32:16. | |
already been largely undermined. There are 17 reasons why it doesn't | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
work and is wrong. Number one, they said Gatwick would not have 42 | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
million passengers until 2024. This year, they already have 42 million | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
passengers. Gatwick have increased their destinations to 20 now, which | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
they didn't expect either. The Davies review was good in its day, | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
but is it had a limited remit. They were talking about Heathrow as a | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
hub, but the airline industry has changed. We have to pay to this for | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
more than 15 years. The government White Paper in 2003 suggested we | :32:56. | :33:04. | |
should expand Heathrow. ?20 million and 12 years later, the Davis Report | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
came to the same conclusion. We are never going to get any form of | :33:10. | :33:11. | |
progress on this is competing MPs never going to get any form of | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
are allowed to frustrate the process. You could have had about | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
three people who are Gatwick MPs arguing very passionately against | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
Adam's desire to expand Gatwick. The point is, we are in a paralysis. We | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
are having a theological debate that will last decades, and Heathrow | :33:32. | :33:39. | |
is... Why Heathrow? Why not expand Gatwick and increase the capacity of | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
our regional airports? I thought the government's strategy was to | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
rebalance the economy in favour of the North and the Midlands. If you | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
listen to northern MPs, or people representing Northern or Scottish | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
interests, they all say they want to increase Heathrow. The SNP said last | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
week they wanted Heathrow to be expanded. If you want to help the | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
economy is in those areas, listen to what they are saying. They are | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
saying expand Heathrow. 32 regional airports support the expansion of | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
Heathrow to maintain its position as one of the global hubs. Even the | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
Scottish Government agrees with expanding Heathrow. They all say, we | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
want to be a serious player in aviation. We need a global hub, and | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
that is Heathrow. The interesting thing is that there is no argument | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
that Heathrow is the UK hub, and no one is trying to get rid of that. | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
But if you are adding a single new runway, is it better to add it at | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
Heathrow or Gatwick, and for me it is overwhelmingly clear. Heathrow is | :34:44. | :35:01. | |
the most expensive airport in the world. If you add another runway at | :35:02. | :35:03. | |
taxpayer expense, you make it even more expensive. So flight prices go | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
up. Whether or not Heathrow could ever be delivered is another | :35:07. | :35:08. | |
question. My own Borough Council as part of the legal action... So even | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
if the decision is made, we may not see the capacity. At Gatwick is dirt | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
cheap. It can be delivered within ten years. But it is not a global | :35:20. | :35:26. | |
hub airport. But the hub that we have at Heathrow is perfectly | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
adequate for the next ten or 15 years. It is running at 99% | :35:31. | :35:38. | |
capacity. Every airline, the new planes being ordered... The airline | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
have decided that the hub capacity is sufficient and they are moving to | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
a different model. Let me ask you this. We haven't built a major new | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
runway in London and the south-east for 60 years. Since 1946, so 70 | :35:55. | :36:03. | |
years. Why not expand Heathrow and Gatwick? Personally, I would do | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
both. If we are serious about having international trade and Golding | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
links to the outside world, especially after Brexit, we have to | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
get serious about aviation and accept that we need more capacity. I | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
think it's scandalous we haven't managed to expand capacity for 70 | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
years, when we think of the economic growth that has happened in that | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
time. If we want to build a prosperous economy, it seems bizarre | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
we are reluctant to increase aviation. Whatever the decision, do | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
you think there will be a free vote on this? I think this is one area | :36:40. | :36:52. | |
where I think the government does need to take a lead, and I hope they | :36:53. | :36:55. | |
will make a rational choice for Gatwick. If the government comes out | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
for Heathrow, will you defy the whips? Yes. I will always vote for | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
for Heathrow, will you defy the Heathrow, because it doesn't make | :37:04. | :37:04. | |
for Heathrow, will you defy the economic sense. If MPs are happy at | :37:05. | :37:12. | |
the prospect of Heathrow... Does the figure strike a chord with you? I | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
would hope there would be more, but it depends on the political position | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
of Labour and the SNP. I hope that the government decides | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
inclusively... Ad is doing what he feels is the best for his | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
constituents. I think 60 is way off the mark. I don't know what | :37:32. | :37:39. | |
journalists suggested 60 Tory MPs. My sense is that it is probably | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
about 20 hard-core people in the House of Commons. I think it will be | :37:44. | :37:50. | |
a free vote. If it is 20 hard-core, you will need Labour to get it | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
through? Labour MPs were very keen on supporting Heathrow, in my | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
experience. It may be delayed again, of course. After 70 years, what's | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
another week here or there! Good morning and welcome | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
to Sunday Politics Scotland. She's set out the stall - | :38:08. | :38:15. | |
Scotland at the heart of Europe We'll be asking the SNP's newly | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
elected deputy leader just how the party will to turn its grand | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
plans into reality. We will also work to persuade | :38:26. | :38:43. | |
others, labour, liberals and moderate Tories to join us in a | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
coalition against a hard Brexit, not just for Scotland, but for the whole | :38:49. | :38:50. | |
of the UK. Labour's only MP in Scotland tells | :38:51. | :38:51. | |
us if he thinks the call for an alliance against hard Brexit | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
matches the mood in Westminster. So the First Minister's set | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
piece speech at the end of the SNP conference was - | :38:58. | :38:59. | |
as promised - full There were initiatives | :39:00. | :39:01. | |
on trade, and Trident. And a revolution in the way young | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
people in care are looked after. But - inevitably - | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
analysts will be poring over the details of what Nicola Sturgeon | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
did - and didn't - Not least because - | :39:11. | :39:12. | |
at the start of the conference - she'd announced a quick consultation | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
on legislation for The SEC see a Glasgow plays host to | :39:17. | :39:28. | |
all kinds of events. Just a couple of weeks ago, at comic con, super | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
heroes and villains took over the halls. For the past few days, the | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
costumes have been more restrained, but the conference has had heroes | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
and heroines. On day one, they stood and applauded as the First Minister | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
promised a consultation on and independence referendum. The | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
independence referendum bill will be published for consultation next | :39:53. | :40:01. | |
week. Once the speech was over, what did they think of that? She said | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
this because it's the democratic right of the people in Scotland to | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
not be dragged out of Europe against their will and we have to start | :40:11. | :40:12. | |
laying the foundations for a new their will and we have to start | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
referendum, should all other avenues fail. Scotland needs to get out of | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
the nightmare situation that we are in right now, being bossed by | :40:22. | :40:28. | |
Westminster. It's what Scotland voters need to hear. We will have | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
the consultation next week and see what is in that. I'm not saying we | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
are shooting ourselves in the front, if this is to quit. A fringe event | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
discusses renewing the case for independence. Has something gone | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
wrong with the argument or the weight is presented? It is | :40:49. | :40:51. | |
self-evident that is the case for independence always has to be | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
reviewed and updated and we have to look at what things worked in 2014 | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
and what didn't. We also have to look at how the world has changed | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
since then. There is a lot of thoughtful going on on what the next | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
offer of Independence will actually look like. It is looking at those | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
areas that we maybe didn't give enough information to the public who | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
were maybe under standard or the voters, that helped them come to the | :41:17. | :41:19. | |
conclusion that independence is the way forward. We have to have sound | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
answers about currency, about banking, about what we would | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
nationalise, what we wouldn't. To build the basis, for building a new | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
Scotland. A country that works and is effective. The organiser wants a | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
new claim of Right for Scotland, published on St Andrew's Day 2018. | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
What we need now is not a more sprawling vision document like last | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
White Paper, but something that is a consolidated business plan, so it is | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
a workmanlike business plan saying what processes, institutions, rules | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
we would need to produce to create an independent Scotland that we | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
currently don't have an saying here is how we will do it, this is what | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
it will cost and this is how we will get it done. Nicola Sturgeon was | :42:07. | :42:14. | |
back on stage yesterday, picking up the I word. Your Mac or not that | :42:15. | :42:23. | |
one. Not yet! The word I want you to remember is this. Inclusion. | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
Inclusion is the guiding principle for everything we do. She went on to | :42:27. | :42:35. | |
talk twice about Scotland's home rule journey. So what did delegates | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
and members leaving the conference think? She was reserved enough but | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
gets us happy in terms of keeping independence on the table. She has | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
been quite clear that that is on the table amongst other options. | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
Inclusion is important. Inclusion is really important. We want a much | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
fairer Scotland. We are on our way. What she said today is I don't care | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
what you say, somewhere along the line if we don't get the deal we | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
want from down the road, we will go for independence two. But David | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
Cameron's story tells us things can for independence two. But David | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
go badly wrong for a leader who calls a referendum just to keep | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
their party happy. Avoiding that trap may need political superpowers | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
their party happy. Avoiding that will stop so perhaps there is more | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
in common with comic con than you might imagine. | :43:25. | :43:26. | |
Joining me now from Moray is the SNP's newly elected deputy | :43:27. | :43:28. | |
Angus, Nicola Sturgeon this morning said she was focusing on trying to | :43:29. | :43:46. | |
convince the British government to take seriously some of the Scottish | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
permits's proposals on Brexit. She seemed to accept that Scotland could | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
not really, in any meaningful sense, negotiate with the EU. You would | :43:57. | :44:04. | |
accept that, too, presumably? The focus is absolutely on trying to | :44:05. | :44:07. | |
impress on the UK Government that it has to do find a bespoke solution to | :44:08. | :44:15. | |
the Brexit conundrum that satisfied both the 62% vote in Scotland to | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
remain within the EU, but also the vote south of the border in favour | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
of Brexit. That is why the Scottish Government has laid an offer on the | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
table to work with the UK Government to try to protect Scottish interests | :44:31. | :44:31. | |
in the EU context, foremost amongst to try to protect Scottish interests | :44:32. | :44:39. | |
that is remaining within the single market, but there are other areas of | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
priority which the Scottish element will be outlining in the weeks | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
ahead. Have you had any indication... Have you had any | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
indication... You are the lead at Westminster. The indication is the | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
UK Government will take that seriously. Whilst the straws in the | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
wind are not particularly good, the rhetoric saying that, of course one | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
is going to liaise with the Scottish Government and so on, the rhetoric | :45:04. | :45:10. | |
exists, but the reality points to something far less convincing. Just | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
this week, for example, we have the publication of the key committees | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
that the UK Government is considering Brexit in the Secretary | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
of State for Scotland is not a serious player in that. It doesn't | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
look as if the UK Government is taking things seriously thus far, | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
which is why I think the First Minister's unambiguous statements | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
are very helpful and it has clearly been heard, as we know the rounds of | :45:38. | :45:44. | |
interviews on today because of political programmes across the | :45:45. | :45:46. | |
networks have all led on the Scottish dimension to the Brexit | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
challenge. And so I hope and we hope quite genuinely that to reason me | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
and her colleagues understand that they do have to seriously work with | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
the Scottish Government is to try to find ways of protecting Scotland's | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
place in Europe whilst quite properly having to respect the | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
mandate that exists south of the border in favour of Brexit. I | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
wondered if you and the SNP had noted the meeting that is to reason | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
me had with the boss of Nissan on Friday, which he seemed very happy | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
with. There was all sorts of talk in the financial papers afterwards that | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
there might be... Can you repeat that? I wondered if you noted the | :46:29. | :46:35. | |
meeting that to Reza me had with the head of Nissan, who seemed happy | :46:36. | :46:43. | |
after the meeting. I'm sorry, the sound is breaking out. I heard was I | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
aware of the meeting between the Prime Minister and suddenly from | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
Nissan. I've not. But I hope that the UK Government is listening to | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
the great many people in the business community, for whom the UK | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
remaining within the single market, not just having access to it, is | :47:03. | :47:05. | |
fundamentally important. That is really relevant in the north-east of | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
England with the Nissan works there, but there are many other companies, | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
many other industries for whom being a part of the single market is | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
really important and I join you from the heart of Scotland's food and | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
drink industry, where it is really, really important that if you are | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
producing foodstuffs or shellfish, which are largely exported into the | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
single market or all of the whiskey distilleries that surround me, it is | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
really important that we don't support the kind of barriers in | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
place to the largest single market in the world. My apologies for this | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
line, Angus Robertson. I hope you can hear me. The point I was going | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
to make is that there are suggestions the British government | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
might negotiate deals whereby specific industries, like the car | :47:57. | :47:59. | |
industry, could sort of stay in the single market, even if Britain | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
leaves, and my point about Nissan was I wondered if the SNP would say, | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
if that should apply to industries, why not geographical areas like | :48:08. | :48:16. | |
Scotland? It makes the case that the First Minister has been pressing and | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
weighing the SNP at Westerners are having underlining. Whilst it is not | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
simple, and we understand that it is not straightforward, it is possible | :48:26. | :48:28. | |
to find different solutions. We know that already within the UK, there | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
are different solutions and relationships with Europe, so take | :48:33. | :48:35. | |
for example the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man. In the case of | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
Denmark, look at how Greenland fits into the pictures. There are ways of | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
having asymmetric relationships, but it depends on the UK Government. | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
Let's go back to your first question. It is the UK Government | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
that will have the key negotiating discussions with the EU whenever | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
they trigger the article 50 procedure. It will depend on a UK | :48:56. | :49:03. | |
Government to take the needs, interests, concerns and expectations | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
of the Scottish Gottman and people, 62% voted to remain in the EU, to do | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
what they have said previously to respect the fact that they say | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
Scotland is an equal partner in the UK. They are prepared to find a | :49:16. | :49:22. | |
bespoke arrangements for companies or four industries, then they should | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
be prepared to do it for nations in the UK, like Scotland or Northern | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
Ireland. You have said that, should there be a hard Brexit, that will be | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
justification for a second independence referendum. Presumably, | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
the contrary is the case, that should the British government take | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
note of Scotland's concerns and those of some in England, and there | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
should be some sort of soft Brexit or medium way between soft and hard | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
Brexit, you will withdraw the proposal to hold a second | :49:54. | :49:55. | |
referendum. If the United Kingdom delivers on | :49:56. | :50:10. | |
the priorities that the Scottish Government is going to be setting | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
out in the next week, that is going to be the focus of our continuing | :50:15. | :50:17. | |
and renewed relationship with the European context. At the Scottish | :50:18. | :50:20. | |
Government is satisfied, I don't see how they would pursue a further | :50:21. | :50:23. | |
independence referendum. Given that all of the straws in the wind show | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
that the UK Government has not taken seriously this far, is exactly why | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
it is right and proper for the Scottish Government to begin | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
consultations on an independence referendum, just in case the UK | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
Government does not deliver on what is required. The premise of your | :50:38. | :50:44. | |
question is correct. If they do deliver on the priorities the | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
Scottish Government want, then we wouldn't need to go ahead with a | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
referendum. But it is right and proper, given that we don't have | :50:52. | :50:54. | |
those guarantees, to have all of those options on the table. This is | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
important, because you are arguing for an alliance. That is against | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
hard Brexit at Westminster. Conservative or Labour or Liberal | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
Democrat MPs say we might ally with the SNP and work together to oppose | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
it, but we are not going to do it if it is just another SNP data for | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
independence. But you seem to be accepting that strips you get some | :51:22. | :51:27. | |
of the stuff you want, independence is off the table? -- should you get? | :51:28. | :51:39. | |
Yellow I am not going to second-guess all of that. In terms | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
of the discussions with other members of the Westminster | :51:44. | :51:46. | |
Parliament, I've not yet had any conversations where there is an F | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
and but from others. There are moderate forces within the Labour | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
Party and even some moderate moderate forces within the Labour | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
conservatives for whom being taken out of the single market is | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
something so problematic that not only do we want to have properly | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
scrutinised it can Westminster, we need answers from the government. If | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
what they are proposing is so damaging and not something that the | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
government had a mandate for, then the SNP will be opposing that. You | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
want to work with others in Parliament against hard Brexit. | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
There has also been a lot of talk about a broader progressive alliance | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
against the Conservatives. What is your view of that? I didn't hear | :52:29. | :52:35. | |
again. My apologies. There has been much talk in the last few days about | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
a broader alliance against the Tories. A Progressive Alliance at | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
Westminster. Is that something you are in favour with? And are you | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
getting anywhere in trying to create it? Forgive me, you dropped out | :52:49. | :52:59. | |
again. But I did hear you talk about a Progressive Alliance. I will do my | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
best to interpret what the rest must have been. There are | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
parliamentarians across the House of Commons who are very fearful of the | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
impact of a hard Brexit. What it means is being taken out of the | :53:11. | :53:16. | |
single market, the biggest one in the world, and have barriers to UK | :53:17. | :53:23. | |
exporters to that key markets. This must be a concern for all of us. And | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
we were being given an impression by many people in the leave camp in the | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
European referendum that we would have full access to the single | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
market and we would even be able to remain. And that is why I think it | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
is really important for all of us who want to make sure that we do not | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
go through an even more damaging exit process that needs to be the | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
case. That we work together. I cannot predict how that is going to | :53:49. | :53:55. | |
develop. In the weeks and months ahead will have different potential | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
stages where we will be working together. We will be holding the | :53:59. | :54:06. | |
government to compound. And I have asked the Prime Minister question | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
she has not been able to answer. There will be a Brexit committee set | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
up. All of these circumstances, we will work together. We have to | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
protect Scotland's interests. And I am respectful of the rest of the UK | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
who wish to do the best for their part of the world, too. Thank you. | :54:23. | :54:29. | |
My apology for the quality of the sound line and that it didn't match | :54:30. | :54:31. | |
the scenery. Thank you. It might not have been | :54:32. | :54:33. | |
exactly an olive branch, but the First Minister's appeal | :54:34. | :54:36. | |
to Labour, Liberals and even moderate Tories to join the SNP | :54:37. | :54:38. | |
in a coalition against a hard Brexit may still have taken | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
some by surprise. It wasn't that long ago though | :54:42. | :54:43. | |
that the Shadow Scottish Secretary, Dave Anderson, and former | :54:44. | :54:45. | |
Shadow Defence Secretary, Clive Lewis, were making | :54:46. | :54:47. | |
overtures to the SNP. And there've been other rumblings | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
in Westminster that some form of loose or progressive alliance | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
may be the way forward. Joining us from London is Scotland's | :54:55. | :54:56. | |
only Labour MP, Ian Murray. Let's stick to the question of | :54:57. | :55:08. | |
Brexit. Angus Robinson and the SNP Let's stick to the question of | :55:09. | :55:16. | |
proposed an alliance with you and whoever is prepared to join them. -- | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
Angus Robertson. To get a soft Brexit. Is that something you are | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
keen on? The First Minister is slightly behind the curve. This is | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
what we have been doing already. Angus Robertson's own Brexit spoke | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
person is from the SNP. Myself and Anna Seabury all ask the same | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
question to the Secretary of State, David Davis about page 74 of the | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
Conservative manifesto saying yes to the single market. We already have | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
that broad alliance in Westminster already against a hard Brexit. We | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
will be pushing hard on that to make sure that is what we get. | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
will be pushing hard on that to make Robertson, he said pretty clearly | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
there that should the Scottish Government get what it wants, | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
basically what you want, staying single market from its negotiations | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
with UK Government, that's the SNP would have no reason to call another | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
independence referendum. He was pretty clear on that. That is, | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
presumably, something you would welcome. Yes, but 40 or so said was | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
the Scottish Government set out their criteria on what they would | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
want at these negotiations. I can guess it will put something in there | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
that is undeliverable in order to keep independence on the table. -- | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
he also said. Scotland being in the EU, which I agree with, is an | :56:42. | :56:49. | |
intelligent argument. We need to put the other referendum out of the | :56:50. | :56:51. | |
question. Rule it out and work for the other referendum out of the | :56:52. | :56:54. | |
the best possible solution for Brexit across the United Kingdom. | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
And make sure that if Scotland is open for business, let's take away | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
the uncertainty of a second independence referendum and move | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
forward together to get the very best out of this bad situation. What | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
about this idea that Angus Robertson was talking about about a broader | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
progressive allies against the Tories. That doesn't seem to be very | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
popular with Labour on Scotland. -- in Scotland. But it does seem to | :57:21. | :57:28. | |
have supporters amongst Jeremy Corbyn's back people. There already | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
is. We have always made clear that when there are issues we agree with | :57:35. | :57:37. | |
other parties on, we will come together and vote with them. And | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
make the argument in the House of Commons chamber parliament on in the | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
wider country. Where we disagree with parties, whether it is on our | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
own side or opposite, we will disagree with them. Jeremy Hunt | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
Kezia Dugdale have been clear that we cannot do a former progressive | :57:56. | :58:02. | |
Alliance, rather than make United Kingdom on Scotland better. So you | :58:03. | :58:12. | |
would rule out an electoral pact with the SNP? Yes. The irony is that | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
it helps the Conservative Party. They are able to play their own | :58:18. | :58:25. | |
agenda. That is what happened in 2015. It is likely to happen again. | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
If you look at the finance secretary and what he said that they will put | :58:31. | :58:39. | |
a judge -- budget together. We want fundamental differences. You rule | :58:40. | :58:42. | |
out an electoral alliance with the SNP. Would you rule out a government | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
with them? After the next election, if other forces have a majority, | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
would you rule out bringing the SNP into some sort of coalition? We have | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
discussed this at great length on your show for a number of times. We | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
are now talking about a General Election in 2020. All those issues | :59:03. | :59:05. | |
that are completely irrelevant at this point. What we have been | :59:06. | :59:07. | |
clearer than what we will this point. What we have been | :59:08. | :59:10. | |
been clear on is that when political parties agree, we will work with | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
them enthusiastically. Where we disagree, we will oppose them and | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
make sure it is Labour values and what the Labour Party wants to do. | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
One example is that we will be amending the Scottish budget to make | :59:23. | :59:27. | |
sure that it can raise the resources in Scotland to invest in public | :59:28. | :59:30. | |
services. The SNP are fighting that. They do not want to go forward with | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
investing in public services. Therefore, they are only doing | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
something that is marginally different of the Tories. We cannot | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
work with the SNP on that basis. What is extremely relevant right now | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
to the current electoral cycle is whether a Scottish MP should be | :59:50. | :59:52. | |
Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland. Are you going...? It is a | :59:53. | :00:00. | |
very simple answer. I have not been asked. And, therefore, I will | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
continue to fight Scotland's corner from the backbenches. Out of the | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
shackles of the Shadow Cabinet, I can be of the select committee. But | :00:11. | :00:17. | |
if he asks you, will you rejoin? He has not. And I have been very clear | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
to Jeremy that I would rejoin if he brought back the shadow cabinet | :00:23. | :00:30. | |
elections. Are you saying that as a condition of rejoining? It has been | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
good enough for people like Kia condition of rejoining? It has been | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
Starmer. Jeremy Corbyn just won a victory. A second time in a year. If | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
that is good enough for people like him, wires and a governor for you? I | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
have been perfectly clear that I have backed him. We will all unite | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
and make sure we have an effective opposition. It is a huge issue. -- | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
and make sure we have an effective why isn't it good enough for you? It | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
was right that he recognised that and went back into the Shadow | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
Cabinet. I have been clear that if he grabs the olive branch for the | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
Labour Party, brings back Shadow Cabinet elections... He said -- you | :01:14. | :01:22. | |
said he burned it. Therefore, we cannot have that conversation as I | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
resigned. He is a principled cannot have that conversation as I | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
politician. I have my own and I'm enjoying myself on the backbenches. | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
I have been able to press the Prime Minister as Secretary of State. And | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
this week I am trying to set up a cross-party group on the sectorial | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
interests of Brexit. I can be just as effective. You said that you | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
backed Jeremy Corbyn and since he was elected again. But, sorry, | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
saying the EU will not consider joining his Shadow Cabinet, unless | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
he implements elections, which he is clearly against, that is not | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
supporting him. That is surely just petulantly refusing to recognise a | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
huge vote for your party has just had? Not at all. We can be united as | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
a party. We will continue to be. I will say nothing to undermine Jeremy | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
Corbyn's leadership. Dave Anderson, you spoke to him, he is perfectly | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
capable of being surgery Secretary of State for Scotland. I can be on | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
the select committee. -- Shadow Secretary. I can ask loads of | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
questions. I can push the government on what is a huge issue. I can do | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
all that. I cannot do it if I'm sitting in the Shadow Cabinet. I | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
will be restricted. What you have just said might be perfectly | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
reasonable, where you any old Labour MP. You are not. You are only label | :02:52. | :03:00. | |
MP -- Labour MP in Scotland. Supporters right across Scotland | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
surely have the right to expect that the only Labour MP in Scotland will | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
act as the Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland? You are letting all of | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
them down. Not just your own constituents. How possibly can I be | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
letting anyone down when I haven't been asked to serve? You could | :03:18. | :03:24. | |
offer? Yes, that you have just put conditions on it which Jeremy Corbyn | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
cannot accept. There is a whole list of conditions. I do not think people | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
in my constituency and across Scotland are worried about being in | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
the Shadow Cabinet. They want politicians to be arguing the case | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
for Scotland on issues like Brexit. Are you seriously saying...? Are you | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
seriously saying it does not matter whether or not Scottish -- a | :03:51. | :04:00. | |
Scottish MP is the Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland? No. I able to | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
sit on the select committee which is doing great work under the | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
leadership of peat wisher. I can set up cross-party groups. I could not | :04:12. | :04:19. | |
do that if I was in the cabinet. We are making strong arguments and I am | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
making sure of that. I am the only politician in Scotland that is | :04:25. | :04:26. | |
currently arguing that of the moment. And the SNP with the | :04:27. | :04:36. | |
incoherent argument that the EU is good and the UK is bad. Do you think | :04:37. | :04:45. | |
Jeremy Corbyn can lead Labour into the next General Election? Do you | :04:46. | :04:47. | |
Jeremy Corbyn can lead Labour into think he can win it? I'm sorry. I | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
didn't catch the question. Well, everyone has the opportunity to win. | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
I know he had the opportunity. Do you think you can win it? It is | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
going to be difficult unless he has a policy platform that means he can | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
give the country hope in the Prime Minister of this country. Is that a | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
roundabout way of saying no? No. I don't think so. It is going to be | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
difficult for him. The next election will be in 2020. Unless Theresa May | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
brings forward something different. Three and a half years to lay out | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
that vision. Deal with globalisation and make sure working people are | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
looked after and progressing in the workplace. By making sure the next | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
generation is progressing. It takes time to build up a policy platform | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
that does that. We are in a good place of Brexit. You have seen the | :05:44. | :05:44. | |
Labour Party use their entire day of place of Brexit. You have seen the | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
opposition time to talk about it on Wednesday. We won the argument, | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
because we did not have to push this to a vote. We have worked across the | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
board to put forward those arguments. These are the things that | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
are important to people. And these other things we will be working hard | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
on to push in Parliament. That is what is important. | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
It's time to look back at the events of the past week and see what's | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
I'm joined now by the journalist Lynsey Bews and the SNP's former | :06:15. | :06:23. | |
What did you make... I was slightly surprised that Angus Robertson was | :06:24. | :06:37. | |
so open in saying if we got what we want, we wouldn't have a second | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
independence referendum. Do you think it is more spin? I think he | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
made a fit of an admission that actually, yes, the second | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
independence referendum would really be taken off the table if the wishes | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
of the Scottish Government are met. The trouble is, what the Scottish | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
pigment is asking for is quite a long wish list, really. They are | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
looking for remaining in the single market, they are looking for more | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
powers for Scottish Parliament, control over immigration in | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
Scotland, and the ability to make these international trade deals | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
themselves. It is whether or not you can see the UK Government actually | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
saying, OK, we will deliver that for you, and whether or not the rest of | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
the EU agrees with that proposal. It you, and whether or not the rest of | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
is a tricky one this because it is fungible in both directions because | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
it will always be possible unless it is an absolutely hard exit, for | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
Theresa May to say look, the SNP have been unreasonable, I did | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
conceive this, I did listen, and on the other side it will be possible | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
for the Scottish Government to say, they might have conceded this, but | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
they didn't concede that, that, and that. Theresa May will never concede | :07:42. | :07:48. | |
everything that was Scottish Government asked for. She only has | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
to concede a bit for Nicola Sturgeon's opponents to say, come | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
off it, this was all a ruse for a second referendum. She has conceded | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
some. And if she doesn't constitute all, Nicola can say the opposite. My | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
guess would be an independence referendum at some point in the | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
future. When do you think they would have to hold that? I think Nicola | :08:10. | :08:19. | |
Sturgeon herself said on this programme it would have to be... I | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
might be wrong, but my recollection is it would have to be before the | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
end of the formal negotiations which would be March 2019? You can say any | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
time from March next year to March 20 19. Any time in that timescale. | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
If you want a specific date, you are as well looking a figure out of the | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
air. I don't think anyone knows, I don't think Nicola herself as | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
probably decided yet. She won't until she says democracies which way | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
the wind is blowing. Obviously, they would need the permission of the | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
British government to have another referendum. Again, I think I'm right | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
in saying that both Ruth Davidson and David Mandel has said on this | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
programme over the past couple of months that while they didn't want | :09:07. | :09:08. | |
another independence referendum, they thought the UK Government | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
should not stand in the way of it. I don't know if you saw David on | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
Andrew Neil earlier, he was much more equitable, wasn't he? It is a | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
tricky one because I think, politically, it would be very | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
difficult to deny a second independence referendum if the SNP | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
can point to their manifesto and say, well, the circumstances have | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
changed. The circumstances set out for a second referendum that the EU | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
was part of that. Politically, it would be very difficult to say they | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
wouldn't get one. The British governance could say, hang on, you | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
are having a referendum before we have finalised a deal. We might | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
allow you to have won after it is final, but it is not reasonable to | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
have one before. That is where the timing becomes tricky. At what point | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
in the two-year period do we have the amount of certainty to know | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
exactly what the Brexit deal, which is going forward, is going to look | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
like. All negotiations are not going to have been completed. I think | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP will probably want to have the second | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
independence referendum within that two-year period probably towards the | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
end of the two-year period if possible to try to take away some of | :10:24. | :10:25. | |
the difficulties of Scotland's membership of the EU if the UK and | :10:26. | :10:32. | |
Scotland as part of it has gone outside the EU. Everything is | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
unclear. There seems to be a bandwagon growing, not just from the | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
SNP, although they are part of it, in Parliament for MPs saying, hang | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
on, we've got to have some sort of say in what kind of Brexit deal | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
there is. So many people, especially south of the border, voted because | :10:51. | :10:58. | |
of the immigration issue. Now, they also probably... Boris Johnson told | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
them leaving the EU did not mean leaving the single market. Well, you | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
can't have both. If you are in the single market, you have freedom of | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
movement. You can't have one without the other. If we are in the single | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
market, you have freedom of movement, which is the reason that | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
many people voted Brexit. Again, going back to David Mandel, he can | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
say Westminster will not allow another referendum... He doesn't say | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
that. It was unlikely. He hinted very strongly that they would oppose | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
it. I think it is politically unacceptable. This issue of MPs | :11:35. | :11:42. | |
having a say, again, there have been various interviews this morning. The | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
formulations are always, MPs will be involved, we've already had debates. | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
That is not what people like Nick Clegg and Nicola Sturgeon said this | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
morning in interview, she would agree with the demand that MPs be | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
given SA on article 50, but she would presumably agree that she | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
would be given a say on what kind of Brexit there would be. It is unclear | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
that will ever happen. Rio it is all very well to have a debate in | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
Parliament about what MPs think, but if there is no definitive say at the | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
end of that for MPs, it really doesn't make a difference as to what | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
the UK Government do. The triggering of Article 50, should we have a say? | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
The Brexit deal at the end, should they have a say over that? It is | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
more likely they will get a say of the Brexit deal at the end of it | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
rather than the triggering of article 50, but it is unlikely they | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
will get a say. Let's say there is a hard Brexit, and that is negotiated | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
by the British government. If the British government then comes back | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
to Parliament and says, right, you can vote on this, and Parliament, as | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
is quite possible, voted against that, what does that mean? Are they | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
saying go away for another two years and negotiate? Renegotiate, yes. | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
Interestingly, when the Scottish MEPs were discussing what would | :13:01. | :13:03. | |
happen in Europe regarding this, they said the MEPs would be asked to | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
vote on it and it could be likely that they would reject the deal put | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
forward to the European Parliament, which would mean that they would | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
have to go away and look at new terms around a new deal, so maybe | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
something like that would happen if the UK Parliament got a vote, but it | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
looks unlikely that they will. If you are still advising them, this | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
SNP idea of alliance in Parliament, would you go for that? Informally, | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
yes. No formal alliances. I cannot imagine a circumstance where Labour | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
would go into a formal alliance with the SNP. You mentioned earlier the | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
possibility of the SNP joining Labour in a future UK Government. I | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
cannot imagine that for a moment. Your ideas and Ian Murray's are very | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
similar. I'll be back at the | :13:51. | :13:51. | |
same time next week. | :13:52. | :13:56. |