Browse content similar to 22/04/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
And in the South East - writing a new chapter - one of our councils | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
wants some libraries to be staffed only by volunteers, but will it | :01:36. | :01:46. | |
:01:46. | :01:46. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1729 seconds | :01:46. | :30:35. | |
I'm Julia George and this is the Sunday Politics in the South East. | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
Coming up in the next twenty minutes: Smart government thinking | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
or dumb student bashing? How changes in immigration rules could | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
damage the region's international education sector. | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
With me in the studio today is Immigration Minister and | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
Conservative MP for Ashford Damian Green and Labour's Baroness Maggie | :30:51. | :30:59. | |
Jones who lives in Sussex. Shepway District Council came under fire | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
last week from environmentalists for planning to build a new housing | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
development when worries about water supply are running hot with | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
the South East officially in drought. Shepway has over 3,000 | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
people on its council housing waiting list and plans to build | :31:12. | :31:18. | |
around 8000 new homes by 2035. So what should we worry more about - | :31:18. | :31:26. | |
shortage of water or shortage of housing? Should we stop building | :31:26. | :31:33. | |
houses in the south-east, Baroness, seeing as we have a short term of | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
water shortage? We need to have a proper planning process to decide | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
where these houses need to be built. If you allow individual councils to | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
decide, then there could be a risk of building right across the south- | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
east of England, so there needs to be a plan for where the houses | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
should be and how these scarce resources like what it would be | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
used. Water needs to be taken into account under the planning | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
proposals and sustainability? Sustainability has been bandied | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
about too often without people being honest about what it means. | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
Sustainable development is lovely, I support it, but if you talk about | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
water in the context of sustainability, he mean people | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
being able to put the water back that they have used. We will run | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
out of resources quickly. Damian Green, it has been raining hard on | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
and off all week, this is not a drought in the global sense, are we | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
getting hysterical because of our language? It is a drought because | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
there is a less rain in the south- east of England. We generally do | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
have issues with water supplies. We need to build more houses, we need | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
to preserve the water supplies and do better at resiting and have more | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
water meters, but I fundamentally disagreed that you need a big | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
central plan for housing. It is better for housing growth to be | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
decided at a local level by local communities that know best what the | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
committee can sustain. This drought is not going away quickly, we will | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
be back to lead to very quickly. The jury seems to be out on Prime | :33:14. | :33:16. | |
Minister David Cameron's Big Society initiative, but one local | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
authority seems to have taken the message to heart. In Surrey, the | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
County Council wants to replace paid staff in 10 of its 52 local | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
libraries with volunteers, claiming it's the only way it can afford to | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
keep them open. But earlier this month the High Court called this | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
decision 'unlawful' and will make a further ruling in May on how the | :33:32. | :33:42. | |
:33:42. | :33:56. | ||
Council should act on its library Libraries have been around for | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
centuries, but their future is uncertain. Like everything in the | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
public sector, if they are feeling the pinch. Across the south-east, | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
different councils have different plans for the libraries. Kent | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
county councillors making funding cuts and reducing the library | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
budget by �4 million. East Sussex is investing money. �12 million | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
invested in new libraries in the next few years. However, Surrey has | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
a different process. It has 52 libraries but the county council is | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
laying off existing staff at 10 of those, one fifth of the total and | :34:35. | :34:41. | |
run them with unpaid volunteers. Surrey County Council says getting | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
volunteers would save it �380,000 a year. The Government is keen to get | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
local people to play a bigger part in helping their community - the | :34:50. | :34:58. | |
big societies. Surrey's plans play into this. But there is a lot of | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
local opposition. This library in East Sussex Surrey is one of the | :35:00. | :35:10. | |
10th. To say that the locals are incensed is exactly what they are. | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
We have some part-time library staff, as follows volunteers are | :35:14. | :35:22. | |
concerned with necessary back-up, we contemplate we need between 50 | :35:22. | :35:29. | |
and 70 volunteers. We need them to give the same level of service. It | :35:29. | :35:36. | |
is just not feasible. It is potty. Plenty of other Surrey residents | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
also do not like the plans. Taking something that is needed by the | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
local community, I don't think they should. They should not touch it at | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
all. If it could work but I would rather have trained people that | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
repaid to do the job. Id might lead to the libraries being shut down | :35:54. | :36:01. | |
and going completely. A campaign group in the locality to cancel to | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
the High Court. In be started this month, the court ruled that the | :36:06. | :36:16. | |
:36:16. | :36:17. | ||
plans were on life for. -- unlawful. It covered training for people with | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
special needs and other issues, and there will be another hearing next | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
month for the court would decide what happens next. The chairman of | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
the group said it was difficult to see that the training outlined | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
comes even close to properly addressing these issues. The Lib | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
Dems on Surrey County Council are also opposed to be changes. | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
familiarity of seeing the same professional librarian every week | :36:40. | :36:46. | |
is part of the benefit of a local library. Obviously with many | :36:46. | :36:52. | |
volunteers and a different person every week, that would be less of a | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
benefit for this. I think that these plans should be abandoned and | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
they are completely flawed. They are not wanted by local residents | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
and I am certainly pressing the administration to abandon these | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
plans as soon as possible. Is this the big society? Not my idea of the | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
big society. I think people should genuinely volunteer and not be | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
forced into these roles. If the county council cannot get | :37:19. | :37:28. | |
volunteers, does it closed the book on the big society in Serie? -- | :37:28. | :37:38. | |
Surrey? Helen drew reporting. Joining me now is Surrey County | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
Council Cabinet Member for Community Services Helyn Clack. | :37:41. | :37:49. | |
Real inspired by the big society? We wanted the ball 52 libraries | :37:49. | :37:56. | |
open when other counties have to close. -- we want to keep all of | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
the 52 libraries. They represent 7% of all of the use of libraries, but | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
the communities want to keep them open, so we're doing this by | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
getting in volunteers. If you want to save �380,000, why not spread | :38:10. | :38:17. | |
the burden, a cut of �7,000 each? Some of the libraries are reaching | :38:17. | :38:24. | |
communities across the county. My local library in Dorking is | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
quadrupling the amount of people that have joined it and provide | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
services for lots and lots of families as well as ordinary users. | :38:30. | :38:38. | |
We need extra staff to cater for increasing numbers. It is not a | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
question of one size fits all, we need to cater for the larger | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
libraries, but we need to maintain all of the community libraries or | :38:45. | :38:53. | |
so. But he made the point that some only represent 70 % of usage, some | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
as be even 1%, some people need to close these libraries?! We think | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
this is a brilliant idea, we do have to make local cutbacks, and | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
Surrey county council is looking at �2 million in the next two years, | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
but we have consulted the local people and they have said that a | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
baby deal of the local library, please do not close them, so we | :39:16. | :39:22. | |
have developed a plan to use local volunteers. You described it as a | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
brilliant, in the reported was described as potty, flawed as not | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
wanted, you have an administrative nightmare, more people than staff, | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
if they need to be managed, and a High Court pointed out that you | :39:35. | :39:41. | |
need a better training scheme for a best. Do you regret the decision? | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
No, this was about it technicality that the Cabinet decision was not | :39:46. | :39:53. | |
properly informed of the work that was being carried out. We have | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
volunteers at all parts of the society and professional people | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
working as volunteers and retired people working as volunteers. There | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
is no reason why they shouldn't be properly trained and supported and | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
be able to help. Stay with us, Baroness, you do not approve of | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
volunteers, the items were set out coherently. A librarian is a | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
professional job and takes three years to qualify, it is not just | :40:20. | :40:26. | |
about stamping books, it is a range of services. Is this insulting to a | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
professional librarian? And have to say around the country, the good | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
libraries already work with foreign tears, but to replace one role with | :40:34. | :40:41. | |
another is the wrong way to go. -- with volunteers. There is a role | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
for professional volunteers and reading groups and issues like this, | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
but the essence of a librarian's job as a professional, scaled the | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
job and it cannot be learnt overnight. Damian Green, an example | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
of the big society at last, just a shame it means people losing jobs! | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
A approve of what Surrey county councillors trying, and it is | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
depressing to hear a litany of objections about training and that | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
sort of thing, there will be intelligent, committed to local | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
people desperate to keep their libraries opened and have a chance | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
to keep them open. The amount of opposition is depressing. People | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
often say, what does the big society mean? It means you might | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
have a local library where you would not have won otherwise | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
because people are prepared to volunteer and give up their time | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
and expertise to have their local community. An endorsement from a | :41:37. | :41:46. | |
Government Minister at there. We couldn't have the Immigration | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
Minister on without doing an item on the subject and the big story at | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
the moment is student visas. The South East has a thriving | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
international education sector which turns over an estimated �270 | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
million a year, with Brighton and Hove alone generating a whopping | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
�122 million. But new changes to visa applications making it more | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
difficult for foreign students to stay in the country after finishing | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
their courses could damage this successful export industry, | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
according to English UK, the body representing foreign language | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
schools. It says that some of its members in East Sussex and Kent | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
have already lost up to 92 per cent of their longer term overseas | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
students as a result of the government's new rules' How real is | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
this concern and what's the long term effect likely to be on the | :42:23. | :42:33. | |
:42:33. | :42:34. | ||
UK's �14 billion international education sector? It is not just | :42:34. | :42:41. | |
English UK, the panic is spreading to the universities, and the | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
President of the University of Sussex said it will damage the | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
international student market and we are sending out an unwelcome | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
message that we run the risk of losing valuable students and a | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
valuable export industry to countries like Canada, America and | :42:54. | :43:00. | |
Australia, or why run that risk? The biggest single loophole of an | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
immigration system that was widely agreed as chaotic and that of | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
control over much of the last 10 years was at the student visa | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
system. It is about two-thirds of the immigration total into this | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
country and the changes to which people are objecting artist of | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
students from staying here for up to two years after finishing their | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
degree to Love Parade job. They have the absolute right to stay for | :43:24. | :43:34. | |
:43:34. | :43:34. | ||
two years. -- after finishing their degree to look for a job. We have | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
said you can stay here if you were offered a graduate level job. These | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
people hanging around living on benefits, in the court we looked at, | :43:43. | :43:50. | |
of the total of long-term students year, roughly speaking, only one- | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
third of them work in graduate level jobs. Another third were in | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
unskilled jobs and one-third were not employed at all, so the vast | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
majority of them were not going to graduate level jobs. I thought the | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
bigger agenda was bogus students. If you close that down and you said | :44:08. | :44:18. | |
:44:18. | :44:20. | ||
in a recent in into view, if that was the big issue, why not if the | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
universities are saying that everyone talking about this as this | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
is a real risk, this is potentially the economic future, some of the | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
best universities in the country we have got, they are frightened, what | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
is your message to them? They should not be frightened because | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
genuine students coming to study at Jenny when institutions will not be | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
threatened at tall, and it would be a shame to scare mongering around | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
this. -- genuine institutions. The bogus students, we have done a lot | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
to close down that loophole and that is very important, but all of | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
my immigration experience is when you close one loophole, another one | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
emerges and in any case, at a time when unemployment is starting to | :45:02. | :45:08. | |
come down, at a time when one in five UK graduates is unemployed, to | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
say that what we want is a system that encourages foreign students | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
not to come here to study, but to hang around for two years after | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
their degree just to look for work seems to be ludicrous. The reality | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
is you have to do things that are economic the damaging because you | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
have at haggard that was said by David Cameron on immigration | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
bringing it down from hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands and | :45:33. | :45:40. | |
the easiest target is students. -- you have a target set by David | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
Cameron. It is not true that every student that come serious economic | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
the beneficial to the country. We want to attract the brightest and | :45:48. | :45:55. | |
the best, we want more than our fair share, but we cannot do that | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
by saying we will let him any body at all. What every level of subject | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
they are studying, what every level of academic achievement, and if | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
they really want to come here to work rather than study, people that | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
come as students, their principal aim must be to study and not to | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
come here and look for work for years and years which is what | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
happened in the past. Baroness Jones, I know you're worried about | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
the University of Sussex and their future, other countries have gone | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
down this route of removing foreign students from the overall | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
emigration had relations, then this way there is no reason to | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
artificially try and bring numbers down. Other countries do not | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
include them, is this the way forward? Can I say, it is important | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
that we deal with the question of bogus colleges and bogus students. | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
When we were in power with Labour, we were equally emphatic about this, | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
but I think we are sending the wrong tone by what we're doing at | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
the moment. We are making applicants feel as if they are | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
potential criminals and we will be using students to the likes of | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
America, Australia and other places around the world that are much more | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
attractive to them. It is not just about the economics of them coming | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
to pay for the cause, paying for the jobs that they create, but | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
there is a longer term benefit in terms of the contribution to | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
research and when they go back to their countries, they take a very | :47:21. | :47:27. | |
strong message about the UK, the ethos, the UK values, and it is a | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
long-term benefits that we encourage students to come here. | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
This is all embedded in immigration numbers Siraj a cat separates Itsu, | :47:35. | :47:42. | |
and Labour consistently failed on the immigration policy and how it | :47:42. | :47:50. | |
worked. -- embedded in immigration numbers here and it is a separate | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
issue. I have always thought that we needed control and limitations | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
on immigration. We took steps in the past and we have supported a | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
number of things that the Government has done so we are not | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
soft on immigration. We need to be more welcoming to people to come | :48:07. | :48:14. | |
here and the truth is, applications are going down from overseas | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
students and we're losing down in the global battle for Education. | :48:17. | :48:24. | |
The Thank you. Now, a weekly round- up with our political editor, | :48:24. | :48:34. | |
:48:34. | :48:34. | ||
Louise Stewart. The aviation Minister has suggested | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
for the first time that Manston Airport in Kent could have increase | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
capacity in the south-east. She reiterated her opposition to a | :48:42. | :48:52. | |
:48:52. | :48:53. | ||
third Rana -- runway at Heathrow. Ken Clarke hailed the success in | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
backing the bright and decorated reform Europe's human rights court. | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
The Dean of Canterbury Cathedral has accused the Chancellor of a tax | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
rate on the nation's heritage. He has warned of the major delays to a | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
multi-million-pound programme to repair a medieval buildings. And at | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
Chapeltown winery you can get red wine, white wine and even if a | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
fruit derived alcoholic beverage from sources outside the EU. The | :49:20. | :49:27. | |
MEP Nigel Farage raised the issue in the European Parliament after he | :49:27. | :49:37. | |
was told that Argentinian grades could not be sold as wind in Kent. | :49:37. | :49:43. | |
It is interesting to think about Manston suddenly being discussed, | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
is the same move forward, Damian Green? A credible alternative to | :49:47. | :49:53. | |
Boris Ireland? Yes, with the whole review that the Justice Secretary | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
would you have aviation in the south-east, it puts Manston in the | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
mix. -- the aviation secretary. It has the high-speed rail link and if | :50:02. | :50:06. |